One Of Speaks: Let’s Get This Party Started Right

Big Al took time to wind down the driver’s side window of his Range Rover. Shame he was in the passenger seat but still, an ACLF scribe managed to jot down his words. We then gave it to a trained chimp which had a better command of the English language and here it is.

London, February 2012

Underfoot there’s a brown, crackly layer of snow that hasn’t thawed in days. An icy wind screams through the exposed corridors of tower blocks, down once leafy suburban streets and through exclusive gated communities. Everybody feels it, keeps their head down and grits their teeth on their way to work, past blackened concrete and skeletal trees.

Welcome to the future – an etiolated population huddling inside, at home or on the job, and dreaming. In the Jet Set era we dreamed about travel, reaching places faster and with more glamour and grace than ever. 50 years later, only our ideas, effort and creativity move – we go nowhere, looking forward to the summer, when a three-second Ryanair fanfare will tell us we’re somewhere else for a few days.

On that bright note we switch to a field in the Hertfordshire countryside, where a leader – grey, angular and faintly drawn – turns his collar to the cold and ponders his next move. Things haven’t gone his way recently, but mercifully for him, little has worked out for his enemies either. A ball rolls in his direction, he flicks it up with the side of his boot, catches it and walks over to his men, assembled on the touchline and waiting for his words. Joining him is his assistant, also grey and slightly pallid, squinting at the team behind thick metal-rimmed glasses and brief clouds of water vapour.

The plan for the unlikely assault on the league, cup and Europe is about to be set in motion. If you have any doubts about his ability to rally these men then I’d like to have a go at easing them.

Wenger has always put confidence in his players. They play for his team because he’s seen something in them. Often it’s something that few others have glimpsed. Most of the time they understand this and reciprocate with effort – sometimes they don’t, and fall by the wayside, or for Nicklas Bendtner that might be the hard shoulder of a dual carriageway.

These men have a great opportunity. In the past the manager’s faith has helped propel players to the very top. Two examples, icons of the game, are at the training ground on this day, reminders in the flesh of what Wenger can do with untapped potential. Both are long past their peaks, but in lieu of speed and stamina, Pires and Henry have intelligence and awareness – characteristics that are never diminished, only developed with age and Wenger’s guidance. Knowingly, they’ll tell the Arsenal players to listen and learn.

It’s one of the reasons that we should stick with Theo Walcott, and why he should bear in mind what the club has done for him. I think it’s telling that concealed in his praise, van Persie acknowledged this week that Walcott is criticised – it’s a tacit admission his teammate has deserved it at times, and I think Walcott is aware of his shortfalls as well. I’d say that his improvement over the last couple of years has been sharp enough to indicate that he’s a mature and open-minded man – smart enough to know he’s not there yet and carry on working on his game. If it’s too late to teach him much when it comes to technique, he’ll still be able to learn how to read his teammates and opponents better.

A few of Wenger’s charges have let him down in recent years. The worst are the ones who came on as players, but somehow didn’t realise that the guiding hand for this improvement wouldn’t be at the new club they were so desperate to join. They have plenty of time to regret it now, I suppose.

Still, despite the setbacks, Wenger works the same way he always has; by trusting his players, and believing that they’ll vindicate him sooner or later. This is what we’ll always get from him, for better or worse. The same old sense of humanity and decency; treating players as people rather than commodities, and after a few years respecting their wishes, even if they conflict with his own.

From what little I can gather as a financial illiterate, there is money to spend, but it’s a finite amount. In the January transfer window it appeared there was a possible case for signing an attacker, but elsewhere most of the calls were to replace players out with injury. I doubt this is something Wenger will ever do, as we’ve seen with van Persie and Rosicky. Maybe it’s no coincidence that they’re repaying his faith right now.

The same loyalty can be seen in players plucked from different corners of Europe at young ages; Francis Coquelin stepping forward to declare that he’ll be proud to play in any position for the club; Wojciech Szczesny standing up and defending the manager after Manchester United, when the press were baying for a whiff of dissent.

So we’re left with a group of men who will fight for the manager and the red and white.

The way we see it, the enemy has had its chance. While we toiled without any wide defenders, leaking goals, losing form and confidence, they should have made their move.

And they’re going to wish they had. January should have seen us left behind, but here we are with men fit again or returning, and belief starting to course through our veins once more. All they needed was a new reason to believe in attacking football, and it arrived in the form of a stocky 18-year-old.

Young he might be, but is there a chance that Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain could fill that awkward deep-lying foward’s role in a season or two? I’m not the first to say it, but he can do everything quite well at the moment. Maybe in a couple of years he’ll be able to do everything very well. Now that’s something to dream about.

So in the words of Flavor Flav, let’s get this party started right. Arsenal is only three points off the top four, and it’s time to get down to business.

Today’s Arsenal On This Day has a cultured left foot. ’til Tomorrow.

Posted on February 10, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 290 Comments.

  1. I dream of a injury free first team till the end of the season. I am sure 3rd or 4th is within our reach in that case

  2. Oh thanks Al. What a wonderful stirring start to the day. I love that it’s an invite to a party and not a call to arms. Perfect.

  3. Aziz, KL-Malaysia

    3rd that is ….

  4. nice write up!!!!!! really good it makes you go back and start all over…… beautiful

  5. we have had our fair share of injuries this season….. now we need to see how we do with no more injuries for the rest of the season (cross my fingers)…. i would be really afraid if i was spuds,chelskis,toons

  6. Good sensible interpretation of whats happening. Most of the Wengers wards who have let him down are players who are not confident by nature. Denilson comes to mind, and Walcot seems to be one in the line. Think Wenger might want to buy either young players whom he thinks he can develop into top players or really top players (finished articles)who will not fall under the finite budget category and hence he does not end up buying. The present batch of youngsters-Wilshire, Ramsey, Szechesny, Coqulein, Chamberlin , Jenkinson are much better than the previous batch and but for injuries at crucial junctures and with a few additions in certain areas we should do well

  7. I’ve always been a regular reader of this blog bt I comment only a few times. I go through the comments of people and I realise some people love this great club of ours as much as I do or maybe even more than I do. To those who keep believing in the manager n the squad, I call you the great FAN while to those who thinks they know better than the manager or are even better footballers than those we have now, well, what more do I have to tell you that hasn’t been told here.
    As big Al said, it’s time for us to get behind the team and the manager as we get the party started for an assault on league and all other competition we are still in.

  8. I forgot to state it clearly that this is the best Arsenal blog around.
    @YW, keep the good work going. I regard you as a noble man.

  9. fourth is manageable…….third is currently a long ways off. one game at a time

  10. Yes, yes and yes…….. Arsene expects…

    But the biggest story of the week is the leak in your flotilla – Djourou gets a four year extension to his contract. He does not provide anything to this team except generic defensive cover if everyone else ……is dead. He is an inept and scared footballer who since his time as a youth has rarely proven himself fit for any particular purpose at this level, or claimed a spot in the first team.

    Some people have hidden Swiss bank accounts….I swear that Arsene has a hidden mistress in Switzerland that he pays for. He must have met her while holidaying in a French/African colony such as Togo, fathered a child who he is forever looking after. It is the only rational explanation for such faith in the light of the evidence regularly paraded.

    If Djourou could qualify to play for England it would be the only way we would ever be in danger of losing him to that position.

  11. Lovely stuff Al, you’ll have PG reaching for the dictionary again!

  12. Your post is a masterpiece,d best way to start d day as an arsenal fan,hope we don’t have anymore serious injuries and hope we can keep rvp for next season,teams around us on d league table should be getting really worried

  13. SA gooner….. why dont you just shut it!!!!!….. you have no idea how stupid and lacking you sound, it makes me wonder, is it that you got no brains or you got but just scared of using em???

  14. Fine writing as ever, Big Al.

  15. Excellent, poetic.
    Best line, he treats his players. As human beings and not commodities.
    Time is ripe. LETS GET THIS PARTY STARTED. ROCK AND. ROLL.
    UP. THE. GUNS. !!!!!!!!!

  16. JOHAN did an admirable job last season at CB. he tried his best even after getting injured towards the end last year. Even at right back ,which isn’t his natural position, he has done a remarkable job. I give him 8 out of ten and I’m happy he signed. I’ll have him on any day. Maybe RVP can take the hint and sign. I would pay for all the time AW and ARSENAL stood by him through countless injury spells.

  17. Thanks for the comments guys.

    I agree that JD’s been off the boil for a while, SA, but as goonerkam says, he was our best CB for much of last season, and he does count as homegrown, which makes a difference I think.

  18. Bloody cracking post this morning, Big Al.

    You are right, while we had the curse of the fullbacks, we were there for the taking getting our second blip in form this season, However rivals didn’t take their chance by putting daylight between us. Now our players are coming back, we can only get better, there is reason to be optimistic.

    COYG

  19. I dream of seeing Santos and DIaby soon

  20. In previous seasons around this period, we usually had players getting injured and missing out on the run in. Its reverse this season, they are coming back instead.

  21. i hope i haven’t jinxed it.

  22. S.A I am sure Wenger sees something in him that he adds to the team hence extending his contract.

    lanky –
    “I’ve always been a regular reader of this blog bt I comment only a few times. I go through the comments of people and I realise some people love this great club of ours as much as I do or maybe even more than I do.”

    You have just described me in a nutshell- infact this is the only blog i read (used to be a fan of goonerholic and arseblog)but i couldnt stand the negativity especially on the comments section. I visited L/g for the kicks but got banned for my troubles a couple of seasons ago.

    For this I thank Yogi for keeping his cool and always providing us with interesting stuff even when the going got tough!

    OOU, by now you must be tired of hearing “wonderful stuff” but I’ll still throw mine in.”keep up the good work.

  23. How dare they ban you. You are always a lady. Stand corrected. The FIRSTLADY.

  24. thank God at last someone who is not bashing the team/wenger,nice post,anyone who reads this post i would like to say get behind the team and support them without any conditions there might be times when we are frustrated with wenger but dont forget in the end its arsenal football club that we are supporting not wenger fc,the man has done it before he can do it again

  25. I bet you are so proud of KOSHER. he has turned out to a dream of a player.

  26. I think it is a badge of honour to be banned from there GoonerKam.

    You generally only get banned if you have at the least half a brain and make sensible comments.

  27. Getting the party started VERY NICELY this morning
    I dig this piece like a fat kid diggeth cake!
    Big Al..u rock, u RASER-dude u!

    “The way we see it, the enemy has had its chance. While we toiled without any wide defenders, leaking goals, losing form and confidence, they should have made their move”.

    Time to make them regret it
    1st on deck…make light of Sunderland @ their own stadium.

    COYG + RASERS!!!!!

  28. gervinhos winner.

    great finish, great lung-blistering run. but shocking defending, really. amateurish. cb should have gone out and rightback should ahve headed for the middle instead of try and catch gerv.

  29. Why no 😆 yet? Is he sulking?

  30. It was a good finish and a quick break but nothing more – an unchallenged run from the halfway line is not a good thing – woeful defending.

  31. LoveTheWayYouPlay

    Big Al, you are the poet of Arsenal. You explain so beautiful why anyone should support Wenger and anyone should love Arsenal. When you know this, what other club can you support?

    This was a stirring piece. You should do dressing rooms talks for Arsenal. If my heart swells after reading that, imagine the players!

    Thank you for this piece.

  32. I know matt. 🙂
    I never post there. Who needs the aggravation.
    Tnx Kori. Great goal. see. He can score . This makes two or three goals for him. He is an awesome KLLINGON. 🙂

  33. Morning JONNY, I thought it was a great goal and he took it well. He nutmeg the one dude and outran the other. Nicely placed curve into the corner.

  34. After reading this post, I feel like Arsenal do not need any more signings, could as well carry on with this team for another year. Well done big Al.

    But I know reality is a little different. I do like all these Arsenal’s players but this bunch is not going to challenge for title unless there is addition and replacement of the deadwood to give the squad quality in depth.

  35. Thierry-esque finish, but Jonny is right – there wasn’t a defender in sight for most of it!

    I was going to say that it was back to the old school of African defending, but wouldn’t want to be deemed racist!

  36. Kori I think that lung – busting run. No.?

  37. Na – goonerkam has the right of it. By any standards a great finish after a fine run.

  38. Kori is right though. The CB just stopped running. Just jogging long. 🙂

  39. morning STEWW. can’t wait for the game . Blackcats are gone get slaughtered right in front of their fans. Hope we rotate and rest our main guys for AC.

  40. This game seems of taken an age to come round. Can’t wait for this one as it’s going to be a real test which I’m confident we shall pass.

    On top of that I can’t wait to see Ryo in action for the Wanderers. It’s going to be one hell of a wake up call for him up north but, one that shall toughen him up and put him firmly on the map and hopefully follow the same path as Jack.

    Yeeeeaaaahhh Booyeee

    Bass for your face London.

  41. I hope Sunderland are a little heavy in the legs after their midweek adventure. You don’t want to be tired facing Theo and The Ox with their tails up. Rest players? After Blackburn? No way Pedro.
    Make no mistake like Bolton were they are in better form than their league position suggests and as detestable as their coach is he has them playing football. Or his version of it. Tough game but if we convert our chances we should have enough.

  42. Fabulous stuff Big Al – may use it in my “they don’t speak for me” campaign, next time the boo boys are in town.

  43. Dhruv | February 10, 2012 at 10:04 am

    I back that thought.

  44. Excellent read!

    SA Gooner, great example of the type of rash judgement that is not present in our club, thankfully.

    That Gervinho goal is good to see. Don’t think you can put all the blame on the defence though. Our Gervinho is quick. Am I right in thinking Ivory Coast are yet to concede in the tournament?

  45. Matt | February 10, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Is their defending any worse than Bolton’s right now?

    Don’t get that one.

  46. we are The Arsenal
    the worlds number one
    and wenger youre the man
    i am your biggest fan

    wherever we may go
    i will support our cause
    sing for The Arsenal
    cause im your biggest fan

    your football blows my mind
    ill be there everytime
    support the red and white
    a gooner till i die

    oe oe oe oe oe oe cause youre my arsenal , and im your biggest fan…….

    (90 minutes non stop. flares flags drums..dortmund panathinaikos boca !!! atmosphere!!)

    we want the champions league
    we want the f.a cup
    we want The Arsenal
    to finally stand up

    oe oe oe eoe oe oe ….(going a bit nuts with arsenal if you dont mind…lol….)

    and all the black bin bags
    can come and suck my ass
    you are a muppet troll
    and wenger is the Lord

    go take your money back
    dont enter in the stands
    go home and cry alone
    were here to support

    A gooner till i die
    forever red and white
    cause youre My Arsenal
    and im your biggest fan

    our boys need our support
    win lose or even draw
    and i will cheer them on
    its all ive ever known

    oeoeoeoeoeoeoeoe ..cause youre my arsenal and im your biggest fan….

    sorry i just love this club so much and i feel i will end up in prison the next time i hear a cretin booing the manager or any of our players

    ARSENAL!

    all the good people need to unite and find all these arseholes with their agendas against arsenal and burn them

  47. steww, I hope we have it wrapped up by half time on Saturday and can make some substitutions. Unfortunately Sunderland will be tough the crack and their tiredness will probably only become a factor late in the game.

  48. Markus | February 10, 2012 at 11:03 am

    Too true, it’s more to do with the stat’s you quoted than anything else. A very powerful, skill-full team with speed a world class players.

  49. Markus – that would be good, but don’t bet against a hard fought one goal win. It could be a battle right through to May.

  50. hunter13 | February 10, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Is that chant and if so what melody should be sang to?

  51. hey goonerton yeah its a self made chant (lol…dont mock me too much..its the action that counts ..lol) its from this clip here the first 30secs

  52. hey goonerton..here as well

  53. Excellent ‘piece’, i feel the jury is still out on Theo even though he has had a couple of good games recently and made some assists.
    A very limited player who is solely reliant on his pace to hide his obvious lack of natural ability.
    I cant agree with the thought that he will improve as he has been at the club six years and for me has not improved that much over that period only perhaps recently in his defensive duties.
    Whilst he still has his pace he will always have his moments when you think he might kick on and become the player we all hope he could be but we are always left disappointed by a run of not doing very much.
    With Gerv coming back and the explosion on the scene of Oxlade, this is going to be a testing time for him.

  54. Not sure what you mean about Bolton’s defence Goonerton?

    Ah, Public Enemy…. Reminds me of a mis-spent youth listening to ‘It will Take a Nation of Millions’ – what a great Album….

    Chuck D and Flavor Flav have to be 2 of the most sampled MC’s of all time…

    And terminator X and the Shocklee brothers sure knew how to make Hip Hop…

  55. hey goonerton …look…hahahaha

    when spurs come to play us ..this is how it should be …

    CHAOS

  56. OOU – Excellent write up.

  57. Inspiring post today Big Al.

  58. I watched us play Panithinaikos from the away end in 2004 at Highbury (the only time I have) – still got a lump on my shin from the melee that followed their equaliser. Their main chant was “Gay, gay … all of you are gay” … and there were a few disappointing ape noises from a minority at the back.

  59. As it’s Friday….

    You old boy’s better cover your ears….

  60. Arsenal midfielder Alex Song has made more tackles (33 in total) than ANY other player this season in the Champions League.

    Who da man. :0)

  61. Great post Big Al

    highbury lament – we have to judge players on their contribution over the course of the season. For me he is an incredible weapon to have even when he isn’t playing well. All he needs is one good pass and we are more than likely going to create a goal scoring chance through his pace. Cesc proved it on how many occasions… his leaving has hurt Theo’s game tremendously. Arteta, Song and Ramsey will never be able to offer that killer pass time and time again like Cesc did.

    I admit that there are some games where he can make quite a few silly errors, but he more often than not causing big problems for his marker. He is a player we need to keep.

  62. Jonny – he’s not fit to wear the shirt.

  63. hehehe ormer which one? the 2-1 ?…yeah i went there too…with a chelsea friend..and he was joining the pao fans swearing at arsenal …lol..i should have slapped him but we had to play with the “rules” in there…lol….

  64. Is it just me or is the Sun’s criticising of Stewart Pearce about racist comments (made years ago) a bit hypercritical.

  65. This is so bad it’s brilliant – by a country mile the worst, ‘ringing endorsement’ of Harry yet.

    http://www.football365.com/faves/7499868/The-Nagging-Logic-Of-Harry-Redknapp

    I just love the rhetorical question half way through:

    ‘It’s going to work, isn’t it?’.

    No.

  66. Dups, The Sun aren’t racist! They’re just jingoistic, xenophobes.

    Some of their best friends are black. 😉

  67. Unfortunately Hunter it was the 1-1 … so I couldn’t even gloat after. To make matters worse, I was also stood next to a Spurs supporter … mind you, the Champions League was a new experience for him!

  68. I see it differently. Theo has matured consistently, and is also stronger physically. It is improvement in little steps followed by a bit of a plateau, for 3 years now. He is a victim of hype, false expectations, for one still young. With each ‘step up’ people think “oh good, he’s arrived”, only for it to level out. His rate of return (assists) is good. His defence has improved dramatically this season. He can be one dimensional, but that big step comes with experience, not only skill. He has a sharper shot now. The goals people generally judge him by come in bursts of 2 or 3 at a time. I think he’s a big game player, rises to the occassion, and looks predictable in some EPL games since LBs are wary and prepared – don’t let him step inside, force him to run on the outside.

  69. To effin right Steww – back in the day, Tony Attwood and I were lonely voices: suggesting Song would come good, when he was getting absolutely slated. I remember getting crucified in the comments, for saying I thought that he would one day be worth a fortune.

    I rank it amongst Wenger’s finest achievements, bringing him through that river of shite and out the other side. Fair play to Song of course – some players would have sulked or moaned but he rode it out with stoical belief. Goes to show just how badly ‘writers’ can get things – Song was written off in every quarter but must be worth £15-20M now.

    TBH, I wouldn’t sell him for less than £25M – he’s only just getting started.

  70. Well said Jonny, totally agree.

  71. @ZP
    I agree a 100%. Theo has come quite a lot over the past couple of years. Last season he has shown that he actually knows how to finish and is rather good at it, too. This year he had to adapt to our way of play changing, forcing him to work much more defensively while having almost half a dozen partners on the right side. And he has still managed to provide 8 assists in the league — leads our club in that regard, I might add. Now with Sagna coming back, we can fully expect Theo to score probably another 5+ goals until the end of the season while still being an important assist and key pass provider.

    Theo just isn’t Cesc, Jack or Ox-type player who develops very fast. He has taken his time, but I think that we are better off for having stuck with him. He is already at a rather high level and there is no PL player I’d rather on his position … and I am confident he will improve even further.

  72. Zimpaul – also a fine post. Just don’t forget the injuries he suffered interrupting his development at vital stages. He’s one of the first on the team sheet for me.

  73. goonerkam so proud of my boy Kozzer, every game he makes me love him more.

  74. @JOnny
    No, no, you got it all wrong. Have you forgotten the old maxim? We need a CB, a DM and a striker! Song just doesn’t cut it with him thinking he is Messi. He should just stay back. He might’ve provided 7 assists in the league this season but how many goals has he cost us by foraying all the time? Think about it! Think about it hard!

  75. Song is a player I was wrong about. I still remember the game he played against Fulham and he was spectacularly awful. I could see no signs of him develping into the player he is now. None at all.

    Now I am always a little uneasy if he is not in the team. Great player.

  76. I still remember how Koscielny was slated when we signed him first. Where is a proper CB, they yelled, thinking Cahill and Samba while they were talking about how he just doesn’t cut it and is going to get out muscled — all based on expert analysis condoned after the Barnet pre-season fixture. I can still vividly remember Suga3 calling Koscielny “light-weight”.
    Nowadays the worth of strikers in Koscielny’s back pocket is rivalling the net spend of Man City over the past several seasons while at the same time he has single-handedly boosted the British pie industry to record profits, courtesy of all the humble pie that is being sent to places like LG after every match The Kos plays for us.

  77. Actually when I think about who is first on my dream team sheet it comes to way more than eleven players.

  78. Wasn’t TV ridiculed for not being tall enough as well?

  79. Koscienly got quite wrongly slated when he joined the club I thought. I don’t really remember him having a bad game and (to me at least) looked a good player from the off. My only conern was that I thouhgt he is quite similar to TV5 (in style of play) and would they be able to form a partnership? I suppose the jury is still out on that one, but they are both excellent CB’s and I rather fancy them to form a long standing and effective pairing at the back.

  80. Lol – Interesting manager you’d make Steww.

    I’ve been wrong about a few players but I never doubted Kos, not even slightly. He looked class from day one. I still the the revisionist piss and brushing over from our neighbours at Le Grove.

    I was wrong about Denilson I just thought he’d get better and better.

    I think the Jenks will become a very interesting player – strange unorthodox style (but then so did Pires). His crossing is better than anything we have had at the club for a long time. I like him – though, again, he is already a source of condescension.

    I’m looking forward to seeing Joel Campbell after yesterdays tantalising glimpses.

    I hope Afobe gets a chance this season.

    Ah so much to look forward to.

  81. Andy – snap!

    I don’t think the jury is out though – we haven’t lost a game where the two of them have started as CB.

  82. Really good post Big A.

    Right, just heading off north to Leeds en route to Sunderland on Saturday, weather permitting! Can’t wait – a tough match ahead but we have a great chance …

  83. @Jonny
    Yeah, it’s really sad about Denilson. After 2008/2009 I was thinking that he looked a better prospect than Song, then he got his back injury, lost his form and his place to Wilshere and never ever really seemed to recover properly. I am still wondering if, maybe with someone like Gilberto still at the club he could’ve matured and turned into Silva Mk2 (with a vengeance i.e. his vicious right foot) but I think that he couldn’t properly establish himself at Sao Paolo and he, of all people, suffered from massive disciplinary problems on the pitch will mark the end of his Arsenal career. I still think he deserves major respect that for all the abuse he received, he always stayed respectful toward the club and it’s fans and only ever had the nicest things to say about Arsenal. In the end he is a Gooner, no matter how much our own fans dislike him.

  84. Update from Wenger & the 15-20 million comments courtesy of Arseblog.

    “I mean by that we want to pay the debt back from building the stadium and that’s around £15m, so it’s normal that at the start we have to make £15m or we lose money.”

    He was immediately asked if this meant his hands were tied with regard to transfers and he answered with an emphatic “No”, before saying, “I accept one basic principle for every company and that’s that you can spend the money you make, and it looks always to be a massive surprise that I have to convince you of that.

    “It’s just common sense and logic that what goes out has to equal what comes in and if that doesn’t work the company loses money.

    “I am surprised that you’re surprised? Do you think the target of the club is to lose money? It’s normal for any company in the world so I don’t know why it’s a surprise.”

  85. Jabba's Delights

    Goonerandy

    He had plenty of bad games last year as well as plenty of good ones. He was inconsistent in his first year which is to be expected from someone with so little experience.

    He has eradicated those errors out of his game and bar the fact that he isnt hugely adept at the offside trap he must rank in the top 5-6 cbs in europe.

    Jonny

    I agree with you on song he is a wonderful player and if he had that tiny bit more pace it would be very hard to find a betetr player in the world than him at his position. Consequintly his lack of gas is the reason behind allot of his bookings which is a major weakness in his game. Its imperative that we get him signed on it would be another fatal blow to our plans to lose song just when he is developing into a truly outstanding talent

  86. Nice chant HUNTER 13. somehow ,someway we need to fill the grove with more passion. More noise . A caldron. A place to put the fear o god into you when you play the ARSENAL at home. One way is to allocate cut rate entry to the away supporters . They would be able to drown out any booing activity at the bud. No more ‘ libarary’ comparisons. One way to deal with these idiots.
    On another subject, you and ORMER need to go to the next CL game together and leave your spud and chelski friend s at home. 🙂
    Better yet, get rid of all friends like that.
    Good synopses. On THEO, ZIMPAUL.
    hay, if Messi and Barfa are fearful of him, he is good enough for me. And our midfilders WILL on time see his runs better and WILL use his speed to our advantage more often than not. Its mot just THEOS game that has suffered some due to CESE and Na$ri leaving. One can say the same where AA IS concerned amongst others.

  87. Song has had to endure the same shit all the boo boys have. To his credit he has come through it where many have not. So has Theo, but folk still judge him on his assists and goals too much. He does as much good without the ball (some would say more…). Of our current starting 11 only those two have ever really been on the scapegoat list. There is no rhyme or reason to it. They are world class, and both as integral to the starting 11 now as anyone else.

  88. @Jabba
    Now you are talking out of your arse, I am sorry but I can’t put it any other way. I can’t remember a single bad Koscielny game last season. Of course, he was inconsistent and did make a couple of mistakes, but just to take the first example to come to my mind, in our game against Liverpool he was impeccable, not granting Torres even one sniff at our goal. Of course, in the end Koscielny had made a minor mistake to let them in over the flanks by waiting with his tackle just a moment too long, probably still used to the way it’s done in France. But does this one mistake turn the whole Liverpool game into a bad one for him? I think that his performance on that night outshone that one mistake, even though it was costly. But feel free to prove me wrong by mentioning some of those bad games of his. After all, and those are your words, there have been plenty! 😉

  89. Nice call on SONG ,JONNY. I agree with your valuation of him. 25. to 30 mil. But he too will sign. We he see the amazing potential of this crew. I just with they sign sooner than later. It would sure give the rest a moral boost.

  90. Jabba's Delights

    Markus

    Walcott is frustrating as one looks at he can do in glimpses and want him to do it more often. I always find that people who nail him need to think would another player have got into the position to be able to fluff a cross…..no. he may not have the most consistent finish or cross btu the fact is his movement and pace get him in far more quality positions than other players, he can be completely unplayable when he is on form. One thing he hugely needs to improve on is his pressuring when without the ball. There is no reason for him to not be an absolute nightmare when defenders are in possesion of the ball in their own half. If we sort out this aspect to our game everything else clicks into place.

  91. Markus – you sum it up with the word scapegoat. When people are searching for one of those there is no reason.
    As for denilson I remember too many classy performances to think anything but highly of him. The mass hysteria with which he was abused was sickening, ill considered, underserved and said more abiout his detractors than about him.

  92. Jabba's Delights

    Evil

    west brom at home he got torn a new one

    Newcastle away stupid pen

    5 points dropped 7 goals conceded in both and he was culpable in at least 3 of the goals

    just off the top of my head.

  93. Evil – “he always stayed respectful toward the club and it’s fans and only ever had the nicest things to say about Arsenal

    But here is the thing; he actually said he wanted to leave to have a better chance of winning things. Others have said much the same and got absolutly slated for it.

    For me, he was a decent squad player, but no more than that. The fact that he played so many first team games shows how weak our squad has been at points in the last few years. I am positive that if we had better options than the likes of Denilson, the team which we built around a very special talent (Cesc) would have fared much better. I know many don’t agree with me on that one, but that is how I honestly feel about him.

  94. Jabba's Delights

    Goonerandy

    Spot on.

  95. First lady, you and me both. I used to love the verminator. Now, its Laurent. Too. Against. Some teams ,those too are our best bet. As a matter of fact, our whole back guard ,from right to left, fills me with joy. Very soon, they will be the best back line in all EUROPE. at less than half the cost. Thanks. AW.

  96. Jabba – Fair enough, but most players have a few off days. To put it another way; I never once saw him on the teams sheet and felt uncomfortable. In the past we have always had a few players that you feel were being carried by the rest of the side (Cygan/Denilson/Bendtner/Hoyte, for examples). I never felt that with Koscienly.

  97. @Jabba
    Which stupid pen? As far as I remember he went to head a ball, didn’t even touch the player who went down and it was called a penalty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4G-7Ho31JA&feature=related check for yourself starting from 2:45, the first penalty is at 1:50 but once again I’d argue that that’s rather soft. But we can differ on that one.
    As for WBA, as far as I remember he played with Squillaci in that match, who was culpable for two of WBA’s goals, while Koscielny’s one mistake came that he didn’t try enough to block the shot for their 2nd.

  98. @GA
    And the club he is playing for is currently first in Brazil, so it’s not like he is not accomplishing his goal.

  99. EVIL, spot on regarding DENNY. God, how I wish we would have retained GILBERTO for a few. More years so that the weight and the pressure wasn’t too much on some of those young shoulders. CESE would have benefited. Also.

  100. Big Al – what a joy to bask in your journalism and optimism.

    Your thoughts have hit the mark (again) when it comes to our manager and players.

    This simple game is heavily influenced by momentum and confidence.

    Sunderland will be another yardstick to measure both.

    COYG

  101. mind you, the Champions League was a new experience for him!

    hahaha …so true

    last year i couldnt stop laughing with them…there they were qualifying past ac milan and all they could think about was arsenal ..hahaah!!

    i hope they made a dvd of that to cherrish for the next 50 years …scum!

  102. Evil – Quite. It appears that maybe he thought he was slightly better than he actually is.

  103. Rubbish today Big Al.
    Not one mention of Andrei.

    Theo started the game late.Therefore he will never ever be technically gifted.
    Arsene knows this better than anyone (and altogether better than the dimwits who harp on about his slow improvement and development) So he bought him for his other qualities.They are undeniable.He is shit hot quick,can finish well enough,and is a true team player.
    On top of that he is a lovely young man and a credit to the club.
    How often have we had to listen to Jibber endlessly wanking over Young,and saying we should have bought him.
    Would anyone swap AOC for Young? And we were told by our well informed fans that we needed proven quality ,not some green kid.
    We have “PROVEN QUALITY” ,His name is Arsene Wenger..When will the idiots ever learn.
    ARSENE KNOWS you know,he does,really ,straight up,honestly ,it is true.

  104. Jabba you are a pain,fuck off from my place of residence please.

  105. @ GEORGE
    SPOT ON and. Hahaha on
    ………. And leave my place of residence.
    More power to you.
    .

  106. Interesting to see whether Ramsey or Rosicky starts. Rosicky is on good form, but I think Ramsey will get the shout. Maybe keep Rosicky fresh for Milan.

  107. Oooh Rosicky. I am thinking about putting a cheeky 10 on him to score … and I usually never bet. But he should be due one of those any minute now, right?

  108. Against Milan, that is. I really hope we see him start against AC.

  109. Well written post as always big al. I don’t know what your profession is but I think you should be either a poet or a preacher. More likely the latter. I wanted to get out of my chair and yell amen at least twice and burst out singing “there is only one arsene Wenger.” but my colleagues would have thought that a bit strange.

    Tough game tomorrow. I suspect Sunderland has been looking forward to this game as a way to validate their recent run of good form. They have one of the best free kick takers in the league so set pieces with be a huge issue. We need to be very careful about giving up free kicks in our defensive final 3rd. Should be an excellent game. We are rested and should play well and we are the better team. . 2-1 for the good guys sounds about like the right score line.

  110. Jabba's Delights

    George

    its a conversation george nobody is being rude. This is what a blog is for. Just becuase you cant remember any of the games or have any notworthy opinion on any matter doesnt mean others cant.

    Goonerandy

    No i was never trembling when i saw him on the team sheet that still not to say he didnt have his rough moments which i said was to be expected considering his inexperience.

    Evil

    i thought his tackle whilst there attacker had his back to goal was a poor pen to give away. He has since learnt from these mistakes and you dont catch him doing suh things anymore.

    His defending for wba goal was awful he back off for 40 years and then allowed him to shoot. Again you wouldnt catch him doing this this season.

  111. Jabba,trust me Nobody gives a fuck about your opinion here.
    If they do they should speak up in your defence now.
    I wont hold my breath.
    BTW,AOC swap for you beloved Young?What is your opinion on that ?

  112. jabba the thing is that all these past 5 or 6 years weve been developing 16-17 yearolds youngsters we have also had to focus on developing them as human beings ..not only footballers.

    a human being at the age of 16 17 18 19 entering a stage where millions will scrutinise them, no matter how talented, now matter how good..will always need the time to mature as character. our youngsters were never allowed to grow properly. constant pressure. constant reminders about trophyless years. constant mocking from rivals. Here is denilson trying to make his way as a professional footballer. H eis 17, 1819, 20 21 and playing against essien gerrard carrick etc in the toughest league in the world, not some pub league in jamaica. etc , he is still learning and he is still growing both as a footballer and a human being. Wenger is the father figure that has to keep all that pressure away from them. denilson aint essien for whom 40million was spent and thus expectations are high. denilson is just a kid. and this kid has to deal with neanderthals coming out to brutally target his legs/ribs/face, a biassed system of refs that will punish him the maximum for the minimum of offences, a media mechanisation mocking him and calling him useless. this kid only has wenger to calm him down. the fans of arsenal who are supposed to say to denilson ” its ok lad get up get the next one” were there booing him and swearing at him. Why shoudl that kid stay at arsenal when not even his own fans cheer for him? why should denislon stay at arsenal when his own fans compare him with a finsihed article instead of using common sense and some perspective ? i insist the fans have castigated our youngsters without ever allowing them to reach their peak years or mature as personalities….

    if wenger had listened to the fans 2,5 years ago …he would have sold the “chocolate leg” – injury prone van ambulance” …but arsene knows….and ever since robin got married, settled down, had his baby and all…we see a mature van persie, a van persie who can carry the team. 3 years ago fans were saying to get rid of van persie cause ade had scored 30….lol…

    and this is van persie right…the problem child noone could deal with…..look at him now…lol…it just proves that wenger always knew. once these pl;ayers mature as individuals ( from 26 onwards usually) they could rip the world apart provided theyre on form consistent and injury free.

    if this combination, ( the click wenger sees round the corner) had happened when all these younsgters were still 18 19 and 20 then we would have reached the ideal …..and all the rest of football clubs should have hanged in shame.

    in these past 6 years wenger was showing us glimpses of what his youngsters can do…consistency comes with age and experience..when the mind settles a bit you know..when yoru life’s targets and responsibilities are clearly defined, when you become a man. those glimpses included qualification in europe;s top four while taking scalps of european powerhouses, those glimpses showed a team capable enough to beat even barcelona at their own game, force a manchester united to play with contra attacks against you, even make assault on title and just lose it on technicalities that have to do more with expereince than ability.

    we never allowed our youngsters to grow into men…we “killed” them psychologically.

    i know someone will say ” oh poor them, earning 20k-30k per week and cant sweat for the shirt” …well lets see you enter the pitch against lampard and gerrard and see what you do as a 19 yearold…. in one game out of 20 the younsgter might win…but in the rest 19 there is no chance that lampard or gerrard will allow it.

    its the way it goes…when gerrard was 19 and 20 vieira was owning him like essien was owning fabregas….when xavi was 19 he was owned by the zidannes….

    what happened is that ferguson hit the lotto with the treble and ever since then anyoen who plays with younsgters and doesnt achieve what that class did gets presented as a failure….lol..BUT ferguson and united were alone in the epl back then…they were playing monopoly…plus those youngsters had massive personalities to learn from…irwin, keanne, staam, schmeichel etc etc…and they didnt come cheap…..

    i need water ..

  113. Jabba's Delights

    George

    What was said in the summer was this.

    Young could help out our team right this moment. Our side needed help right at the begining of the season. Young helped slaughter us do you not remember? He has scored or asissted every other game so far for Utd.

    May i add he is a life long gooner something that you are not you complete cretin.

    Chamberlain has so far in his small amount of match time shown great ability and im delighted. We however needed someone who could contribute straight away. Would we have more points at this stage of the season with Young…………….i would have certainly thought so.

    God your useless at this.

  114. I agree with Hunter.
    Not just his last post.
    I just find him generally agreeable.
    A good sort.

  115. Jabba's Delights

    George

    No back up your statements

    Diaby and Rosicky will fill cesc void
    Clichy is the best left back in the league
    we dont need another striker
    there is no chance of us finishing belwo shit teams like liverpool and spurs.

    The list goes on with you. despiete most of this blog being hugely pro wenger just liek you you are without a doubt the least knowlegable gooner on here who only supports arsenal as we play nice football.

  116. May i add he is a life long gooner something that you are not you complete cretin.

    thats a lie ….

    why did he sign for the enemy then …..please dont tell me he looked at it form the prism of preofessionalism ….lol ..

    because when wenger sees things from the prism of professionalism you object and cry and moan…

    hypocrite …..

  117. Are you going to answer the question you fucking halfwit?

    AOC swap for you beloved Young?What is your opinion on that ?

    You claimed Arsene had got it wrong.So your should want the swap.No?

    Will anyone defend Jibber?

  118. Diaby and Rosicky will fill cesc void
    Clichy is the best left back in the league
    we dont need another striker
    there is no chance of us finishing belwo shit teams like liverpool and spurs.

    I never said any of those .You are a fucking liar.
    You trawled through the old posts trying to find them the other week and could not .All you found was me being unhappy at the Blackburn result .And here you are again with you lies.
    Pathetic excuse for a human being you are.

    Ps I did say Gail was the best defensive LB in the league.And I still think that.

  119. Would we have more points at this stage of the season with Young…………….i would have certainly thought so.

    well,,,, thats completely hypothetical…..

    i dont mind hypothetical discussions.

    i just dont like hypothetical discussions against arsenal without accepting hypothetical discussions for arsenal.

    Im pretty certain that if i make a hypothetical claim as ” if the youngsters had been allowed the time to mature we would have won the champions league” you will pillor me…. and if i answer back you will call me clueless………

    no problem with that

    just allow me the same right to compliment as i see fit other hypothetical claims like the one below

    “i would have certainly thought we would have more points at this stage with young”

    😉

  120. Jabba's Delights

    George

    You just got a more detailed answer. To be fair the answer hits the fucking nail on the fucking head. Get your stupid middle aged head round it.

    Hunter

    Arsenal didnt come in for him and he had the opportunity to join one of the best clubs in the world. We have far worse enemies than Utd.

    ”because when wenger sees things from the prism of professionalism you object and cry and moan…”

    example please

  121. Lyrically written post as usual, OOU.

    Interesting that Coquelin has recently been so willing to play LB and RB as needed. When Sagna went down v. Totts, I thought LeCoq had shown that he could put in a shift there given his determination defensively, passing skill, awareness on the pitch and relative pace. AW said soon after however that Coquelin didn’t feel comfortable there and so he would not be considering him for the position. Seems something changed–perhaps more time to become comfortable and the new contract he agreed have helped him feel more established in the side–you can see the confidence in his last couple performances.

    In any case, he is one of the youngsters I have most faith in because of his fighting mentality. I thought he was the real outstanding player in our dismal loss at OT while he was on the pitch. Although Sagna is back, I think Coquelin has grown enough to rotate with Song and Arteta and will get playing time in the remainder of the season. I wouldn’t be surprised if he plays against Sunderland either on the weekend or in the FA cup tie. He might make the bench v. Milan as well.

    My question is about Gibbs. He is nearly fit but perhaps the target is for the FA cup tie v. Sunderland for his return with a sub appearance possible before then. I look forward to having a LB in the side and Gibbs is certainly very skilled going forward. Something we have been missing a bit though Vermaelen has been a warrior.

  122. Jabba's Delights

    George

    ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahah

    you absolute lying twat you said all of those statements and everyone who has been on here for longer than a year fucking knows it hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah you complete midd e aged cretin

  123. well jabba here is where we disagree

    Arsenal didnt come in for him and he had the opportunity to join one of the best clubs in the world. We have far worse enemies than Utd.

    one of the best clubs in the world ? lol…since when ?

    if wenger hadnt shown up here in 1996-97 and done what he has done up till now, i doubt youd be able to make such a comment.

    as for your example…..lol

    wenger has to generate 20-25 m per year for the banks….soemthing which you just learned about last week i caught it 6 years ago ….all his moves and transfers have been conducted with the idea in his mind to make MONEY FOR THE CLUB…..not win titles nor please the fans …like a strict professional accountant….as you probably like to bash him…….

  124. no jabba….my enemy is united…they are the ones who hold what i want…..the title of champions…they are the ones i want to catch in english football records…united, liverpool ..and abroad real milan barca….

    i dotn care about spurs lol…i have grown from local and im global now….spurs is the poor kid down the neighborhood who is trying to get in my face.

    i have been driving jaguars all my life and here comes the spud with his tuned up vauxhall to give me sh*t? lol …..there is no comparison. i just step on the gas and leave him miles behind.

    im chasing the cunts up north with their ferraris and aston martins 😉

  125. Well I don’t see anyone coming to back you up Jibber.

    You are a liar,I know it ,You know it,And everyone else knows it.

    Just the other week you claimed I had said I would stop supporting Arsenal if Wenger left.
    AS IF THAT WOULD HAVE GONE UNNOTICED BY THE REGULARS.

    You are a really poor human

  126. dont worry goerge ill sizzle him a bit …… hehehe 🙂

  127. Anyway,I don’t care to be called middle aged.
    I now feel “elderly” if you please.

  128. Markus, I agree completely. Rosicky for the Milan game–he is crafty and made for European ties. Ramsey has had a bit of rest and gives us the work rate all over the pitch that we will want against a side like Sunderland.

    I’d start AOC at Sunderland and put him on the bench v. Milan.

    My lineup:

    Chezzer
    Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen
    Coquelin Arteta Ramsey
    Walcott RvP the Ox

  129. Jabba's Delights

    Hunter

    Actually big guy arsenal finances are something i take great pleasure in knowing and understanding.

    he has to generate 16m a year at a fixed rate i know this and yuou knwo this everybody bar george probably knows it. This created tremendous difficulties for him unitl 2008.

    Our revenus now comfortably allow him to cover that although this will be more difficult if we dont make cl for obvious reasons.

    Are you not saying Utd are one of the best clubs in the world? They are a club who we try and emulate in allot of ways so you shuld think before you write.

    I grew up in Finsbury park i hate spurs more than anything they are however a well run club that are currently doing well.

    I hate everything chels and City stand for they are whats wrong with the game.

    I dislike Utd but i appreciate that they by playign good football and are self sustaining.

  130. Jabba's Delights

    George

    hahahah your such a sad man. All of those things were said there were great debates as to your stupidity then and your even more stupid now. I knwo things are backward up there alone near blackburn but your really need to up your wrinkled game

    I

  131. Jabba ,I hate you more than you hate Spurs.

    Nobody has jumped in to defend you yet btw.

  132. Kos is better this season because he has had a chance to adapt to the league after making a big step up to Ligue 1 the year before and because he has become stronger physically. He showed his potential and fighting spirit last season but played a lot more than anticipated due to Vermaelen’s injury for essentially the whole season.

    I expect Mertesacker to be even better next year. When you consider our options in central defense going forward you have to be very satisfied with the quality and depth available. Djourou and Miquel are excellent 4th and 5th CB’s. At fullback we also have quality but might be lacking a bit of depth. But if Gibbs sorts out his injuries and can develop, he is an excellent back up short term for Santos and may yet grow into our starter in two or three years. Jenks is hopefully going to get over this back injury, which is pretty worrying–look how back injury affected Denilson. But with Coquelin, Djourou and Kos able to play there we are ok.

  133. Jabba's Delights

    George

    shhhhh please you should be thinking about upping your game you sad old little man

    I bet you wish you were lucky enough to be able to vent your fury at something you hate…..the beauty of being a season ticket holder is that i will be getting to do just that on the 26th while your scratching your balls as per usual. God it must be tough being you

  134. George/Jabba – Get a room lads. Too much frustrated sexual tension between you. 😉

  135. You are right Jabba,I wish I could sit around endlessly moaning about Arsenal with my retarded mates from Le Grove.
    Your life seems so full of Joy.

    Will someone ,anyone,come and give Jabba a lift.He is drowning here ffs.

  136. On Song, we have to hope that he re-signs. There has been no attention or news on this because of the RvP and Walcott situations. So I have we have no idea what the situation is here and why he hasn’t signed a new contract extension or where negotiations are headed. But frankly it would be a big blow to the club to lose a player of his quality now when he is entering his prime. This season he has been far more disciplined than last positionally, I think, while still showing his technical qualities with excellent passes from deep and the occasional inventive foray like his cross for RvP to head. If we can’t hang onto a player like him, whom AW nurtured and developed at a sacrifice in the first couple of years, then the model won’t work as well as we all hope. If Frimpong had had the chance to play injury free this year or last, we’d be in a better position with him and Coquelin developing into defensive/central midfield. But I really hope we can hang onto our best players.

    Recently, Song has looked a bit tired so hopefully Coquelin can step in during the next run of fixtures and rotate with him and Arteta.

  137. Andy .pick a side or go and have a wank.

  138. Clichy was voted best LB in the league 08 or so

  139. LG,Song looked brighter against Blackburn and he has had a full weeks rest .As have the rest of the team
    Tiredness should not be a problem now.

  140. I thought there was a clear option for us to have Henry until the Spurs game. I’d love to see him come on v. Spuds; you know he’d put some serious doubts and anxieties into their feeble little hearts.

    Well, he’s scored in two competitions for us this loan, so I fully expect a mid-week away goal to win at the San Siro to cap his delightful little spell back with us. That would be very satisfying!

  141. And Diaby and Rosicky would have been able to fill the void left by Cesc if they hadnt been unfit or injured. We could also have bought a big name to replace cesc and he could have still got injured.

  142. Hunter you certainly take the worship to a new level.

    If it takes to age 25-26 to mature then we have to wait for another 6-7 years for the current generation. That will certainly strain the patience of even the best fans. Arsene will probably retire before then. What chance did the last generation have if they needed a time period of 6-7 years. Over that period some have injuries, some just don’t quite turn out as good as we thought, some want more money and move away, and the unavoidable media and fan pressure will only increase. If this generation doesn’t have any more success then the last group for the next couple of years what will keep them mentally strong? The last group was just as much arsene’s as this one. Planning for something 2 -3 years in advance has proven to be a crap shoot even for someone with the clairvoyance of the boss. Sacrificing current success to plan for something that far in the future has proven to have its own costs. Just a thought.

  143. Agreed, George, he and everyone looked very energetic. With some fixture congestion ahead, I think it would be prudent though not to let him get run down, especially as Coquelin is doing well.

  144. One last thing and I will leave it 🙂

    “shhhhh please you should be thinking about upping your game you sad old little man”

    Do you think you would say that to my face?
    Do you ?
    Really?
    Because I promise you I would call you a retarded prick.

    To everyone else ,sorry folks.

  145. George – Side?

    I am on nobodies side except that of reasonable and rational points of view. I don’t care who makes a point or from what side of the (so called) doomer/AKB spectrum they come from. A valid point is a valid point regardless of who makes it.

    I may take your default option though as I am pretty bored at the moment.

  146. @LG
    Yes, I am slightly gutted that Henry most likely won’t be around for the Sp*rs game. Just imagine what it would’ve been like for him to come on and score the winning goal in a proper high scoring thriller against them. I think I’d wake up neighbours living three streets away in such a secnario with my yelling.
    But alas, it’s not supposed to be, I guess. At least we won’t have to make it dramatic and can give them a good old fashioned tonking.

  147. Jeff – “We could also have bought a big name to replace cesc and he could have still got injured.

    True, but that is no reason not to make a transfer. We would never buy anybody by that logic.

  148. Bill,I believe people who do that are called Visionaries.
    People who think of the now are called Harry.

  149. Andy,When things become personal,you take a side.
    As I have done many times when you have been unfairly attacked.
    But still.if you wish to do a bit of the old fence sitting 😆

  150. Hunter @ 2:05 – Much of your post actually points to mismanagement by Arsene. Your defence of Denilson in that he could not be expected to compete with the likes of Essien/Gerrard simply emphasizes that he should not have been in the team at that point in his career (as often).

    And you can’t explain it away with “it was helping him progress” because it that was the case it was at the expense of the club. Although we produce many of our own players, we are not a creche. What is best for Arsenal Football Club must come first. If we had thrown the likes of Denilson into a side with more experience/leaders in it, he may have progressed better. Who knows?

  151. Andy do you actually read peoples posts?
    Hunter has told us umpteen times why he thinks Denilson and others “not good enough” were in the team.

  152. George – When things become personal on an internet blog, it is time for people to get a grip.

    And don’t think I don’t appreciate it George, I know you are a good guy. But when people start turning into keyboard warriors they really should have a good look at themselves. Some of the posters on these boards who seem to be hate figures still do make decent points on occasion. Often they go unnoticed though.

    For example, I often completely disagree with the likes of Gains/Steww/Frank (for example, there is more). But I also appreciate that they often make decent points which I do agree with. If I just completely ignored them as we have had a few “fallings out” I would miss their decent points. Which are few and far between I might add 😉

  153. George – I know he has. And I am just saying that I think it was bad for the club. We are not mega rich, but we could have done better, lets not plead poverty eh? We picked up Arteta for £10M for example. By no means breaking the bank, but look how much better we are with him in the side. If we had supplemented Cesc with a handful of players of that caliber I think we would have won some trophies in the past few years, and he also may still be at the club.

  154. Hunter @ 2:05
    excellent stuff

  155. Well done for taking him on George but this place is destroyed as soon as he appears. Much better if we all ignore him.
    Oh and you can tell a lot about a man by the company he keeps. Everyone notice that round of applause jibber gave GA earlier? Tells you all you need to know.

  156. I disagree Andy
    I love this place because I like a lot of the posters.
    I interact with them and speak to them more than I do most of my real life friends.
    You either like someone or you don’t.
    I agree that someone you dislike can still have a valid point
    That said,Jabba has none.Ever.

  157. Steww – Predictable as ever. Back to your sheep pen, the flock awaits.

  158. George – Fair enough mate. Horses for course and all that. I was just explaining my stance. I enjoy debating and chatting with the majority of posters on here as well.

  159. Steww you are right I usually do ignore him these days .
    But today I noticed he was lying.again.

  160. Wenger has always put confidence in his players…………..
    Thats the reason we are 7 years without a trophy. Those players are paid VERY VERY well so its not as if they play for free.
    Arsene’s loyalty should be with the fans and not the players!!!! The paying customer(fan) is always right. Thats the number one rule of business!!

  161. George – Below is a quote from Jabba earlier. Despite your dislike for him, do you honestly disagree with this point (seeing you said he never ever makes a valid point)?

    He has eradicated those errors out of his game and bar the fact that he isnt hugely adept at the offside trap he must rank in the top 5-6 cbs in europe.

  162. Hopefully the team can get on a roll like they did in the first half. Personally I am not so optimistic. I am still waiting for Van Persie to drop dead from exhaustion. Wenger doesn’t know how to rest his best players like SAF does. If Robin doesn’t break down then he’ll probably suffer from exhaustion. Wenger’s teams are always too thin to win the championship. And he can’t resist playing his best team – even if in the long run it means fatigue to key players or worse they breakdown like Jack W. If Wenger bought better cover 2nd team players then there’d be a chance but for whatever reason they are content to spend nothing and rely on the youth development system. It pisses me off though to think that the world’s 5th richest team is essentially a selling team operating like Ajax (developing youngsters to sell later as a profit) when it could spend a little bit more and maybe be able to win a trophy or two. Wenger needs to buy a few bigger players. His talented squad of thin waifs always seem to be injured more easily. Look at Manure – they manage to strengthen and bulk up players like Ronaldo. Nani, Valencia, Chicharito so they can withstand the physicality of the EPL.
    Lastly we all need to look at ourselves too. When I watch an Arsenal game at the Emirates I see too many supporters too easy to groan or complain. The Emirates fans don’t act as an extra player like they do in places like Anfield, Shit Hart Lane or Old Trafford. Many teams get the benefit of the energy and collective will of their home crowd. But not Arsenal.

  163. Lime, Clichy had a back injury and he recovered well from it. Not to down play Jenk’s back injury, but no two injuries are the same. I hope he does recover a hundred percent from his injury because I think he’s going to turn into a magnificent player.

    As far as Denilson is concerned, the boy is only twenty three years old. He’ll be twenty four next week. All this talk about him not turning into a great player is absurd when one considers how a player like Mikel Arteta rose through the ranks and is now, at twenty nine years old, playing for a big club for the first time. Personally, I would love it if Wenger brings Deni back and plays him in the position which Aaron Ramsey is currently playing at. I would love to see what Denilson could do in a position where his primary responsibility is not defending.

    I never doubted Alex Song. The first time I saw him play I thought he moved like a great player. It is kind of tough to describe, but any one who has played football at a decent level knows a good player when he sees him. This is the reason why I think Le Coq is going to be a magnificent central midfielder when he gets his turn and why I don’t sweat the fact that Alex Song hasn’t signed a new deal. If he leaves we’ve got Frimpong and Coquelin waiting to take up the slack. No loss of quality whatsoever.

  164. Well said Big Al. This team will get a move on. People are returning to their best positions and will demonstrate the result of that on the field. Most of all we will twist the anti-Arsenal jounalistic endeavours of the press and make them howl like banchees. That will give me a great deal of pleasure.

  165. Is there a set age range for “middle-age”?

    It’s a worry because if I’ve got there without realising, I probably shouldn’t join in with some of the more risque chants any more and should just tut and talk about the old days.

  166. Just got my Saint Evenage v Sp*rs ticket this morning!- Five of us going, all Arsenal fans! – happy days!

  167. Ormer – Heh, good point. I am getting nervous myself now.

  168. Andy
    No,because he is stating a generally accepted point as his opinion.
    That hardly qualifies as a good point made.Now does it?
    “I expect us to start with eleven men tomorrow.”Is that me making a valid point?
    “RVP is a good player.”Am I bringing something fresh to the blog?
    He is a thick prick,just admit it.

  169. George, I talk to some of you folks more than “real life” friends too, because I love the Arsenal and talking about Arsenal football so much. You are a good chap, and I can sympathize strongly with your desire to confront those you perceive poisoning the atmosphere of discussion. But it has gone real quiet here on genuine football talk as a result.

    How about we discuss your favourite topic–AA? I am quite down about the fact that he seems in the wilderness now. He was starting to show flashes of effectiveness and could still have helped the club out. We have three games in a week and while the OX deserves a start for the dynamic contribution he has been making, we are a stronger team, particularly in Europe if Arshavin can get on the pitch in the right frame of mind. I would not be averse to playing him against Milan, even starting with the Ox ready for a later sub to run at them. That is just the sort of big European match (away from our ridiculous booing home “support”) that suits his skill and could give him a boost. He is with us for the rest of the season and we will need his guile and experience and quality if he can summon the inner resources and confidence to show again down the stretch run-in.

  170. Andy, Denilson was an important player in the side. That’s precisely way Wenger used him so much.

  171. George – Is he? I have never heard anybody outside of the blog suggest that Koscienly is in Europe’s top 5 CB’s. In fact I know plenty of people who still think he is plain average. Obviously I try and set them right on that one, but still.

    Meh, I am not going to get into an argument about who is a “worthy” poster or not mate. Like you said earlier, if you don’t like him, ignore him. That is fair enough.

  172. Gainsbourg69 at 3:39, something in the way they carry themselves and go about their job without any nonsense. Either Coquelin has been studying Song closely or they really are like two peas in a pod. But yeah, knowing the ability our club have in unearthing talent I don’t really fear the departure of anyone any more. As long as we can still attract talent that is.

  173. Highbury lament/
    Try jumping on another bandwagon,
    Theo is a class act and so much more then a wide man I can’t be arsed to list his attributes,
    Go to a game and watch him play!

  174. Gains – “Andy, Denilson was an important player in the side. That’s precisely way Wenger used him so much.

    And so important we let him go on loan?

    And so important we had a horrible record of embarrassing collapses?

    Such a good player that not one one of Europe’s better (of average for that matter) teams would take him on loan. There were plenty of PL teams trying to get Frimpong on loan, but not one for Denilson. You don’t find that strange?

    The fact he was an important member of the team just shows how low our standards had fallen then. I will say no more on the matter as it is an old and often gone over argument. I accept that we don’t agree on it, and that is fair enough.

  175. Gains, I certainly hope along with you that Jenks comes back from this injury as he has some real potential and did well this fall.

    I’ve defended Denilson on this forum as well for what he can offer and think he is useful in the squad. I would have some reservations about playing him where Ramsey is. He can still be useful but I don’t think he has been starting at Sao Paolo so he has to work his way back up the ranks for a bit.

    I see big things for Frimps and Coquelin too, but there has been some lost development for Frimps which would give me more confidence he can reliably replace some of what Song brings. Coquelin is closer but I wouldn’t want him being the main DM next year. He has hardly had a chance to play centrally this season, but hope he’ll get some games there the remainder of this season. Next year he could start breaking into the first team more often and we are lucky to have Arteta locked up as playing alongside him will be helpful if Song was to leave but it isn’t ideal. It is rebuilding too much again, I think, but it might come to that. My point about Song is also more about the problem of not getting the best years from players we develop and train–that isn’t what we are trying to accomplish, so I hope it doesn’t happen in his case because we have lost too many players over the last two-three seasons that interrupted the progress of the side.

  176. I see RVP to Madrid has started already (according to these lying bastards anyway)

    http://goo.gl/wvM6c

  177. @LG
    I just did some research on that and actually Denilson, after being more miss than hit in 2011 with all his red cards has actually managed to establish himself in Sao Paolo now. The club has played 6 games this year, winning 4 and drawing 2. Denilson has played in all of them, bar for one draw (and he didn’t start in the other one.) Firmly at the top of the table in the Paulista as well.
    I am not sure if that will allow him to turn things around, but you can never know.

  178. George

    “Bill,I believe people who do that are called Visionaries.
    People who think of the now are called Harry.”

    Against some pretty heavy odds the boss built a squad that with a few personnel and tactical tweaks (mostly related to defense) could have had a lot more success. Just my opinion but we lost a whole generation of talented players because we forgot about the importance of now. Now we have to rebuild almost from the start. Hopefully we can keep RVP but if we do his sell on value will be almost nill at the end of his next contract not to mention he will need a club record breaking wage for the next several years. Resigning him would be a terrible business decision. Hope we get off the rebuilding carousel at some point.

  179. Evil – I do think he has missed the boat with us now. With the likes of Frimpong/Le Coq/Wilshere/Ramsey, all young players ahead of him in the pecking order I can’t see a way back for him.

    Personally I am glad of that, but by the same token hope the lad makes a good career for himself somewhere.

  180. Bill I thought you would have thought

    “Bill,I believe people who do that are called Visionaries.
    People who think of the now are called Harry.”

    Quite amusing.
    I accept your point(s), all the same.
    I don’t really agree ,but you know that already.

  181. Limestone – “My point about Song is also more about the problem of not getting the best years from players we develop and train–that isn’t what we are trying to accomplish, so I hope it doesn’t happen in his case because we have lost too many players over the last two-three seasons that interrupted the progress of the side.

    Great point. It is all well and good having good back up players who can come in and replace missing players, but if you don’t keep your best players through their most productive years you are in a state of constant transition.

    That is why the team of 2004 was so successful. A number of top players all hitting their peak years at the right time. But it is also why we dipped almost immediately after.

  182. I don`t see Denilson, Vela or Bendtner having a future with us. They all had plenty of chances to establish themselves long term & failed to do so – but that`s football & I`d wish them all the best.

    Of the new guys AOC & Le Coq are the ones I see are certs to make it at the highest level. Not so sure about Frimps but it`s hard to judge young players. I actually think Jenkinson has a better chance than Gibbs but that`s a gut feeling with nothing to back it up.

  183. Nicely put OOU,

    On another topical issue: the RvP media suggested potential sale to Spain (Real or Barca) seems to be the latest attempt to destabilize and undermine our club. On the plus side, the hike of a 52% income tax that has now been adopted in the climes might lessen the appeal.

    It’ll be interesting to observe the pattern of movement into and out of La Liga over the coming (post tack hike) seasons.

    The future’s bright, the future’s red and white!

  184. LG,Andrei has been dealt a fatal blow by the ignorant boo boys.
    I want him gone.He deserves better than feeding from scraps.
    He is class as a man and a player.
    The booing of his very name brings shame on our club.It disgusts me .As do the shit fans who did it .Twice now.And once when he came on.
    I see no way back for him.

  185. That should have been post tax hike: not quite as sharp or painful!

  186. Where is Shotta these days?

  187. @ Big Al
    Lovely post again – you should write novels.
    “The way we see it, the enemy has had its chance. While we toiled without any wide defenders, leaking goals, losing form and confidence, they should have made their move.”
    Absolutely right.
    And I agree with ZP as well about the way in which Theo improves. He’ll take a big step, then seem to stay at one level for ages, or even slip back in another part of his game, and then take another big step. He is not the most talented but he makes up for it in application and I hope he is with us for a very long time. Very dangerous and effective player.

    @ firstlady
    ditto, as usual, about our boy!

    @ Pedantic George
    on great form today, making me laugh as well as applaud.

    @ G69 – great posts. so true about the aura a top player has.

    @ goonerandy | February 10, 2012 at 4:01 pm
    Gains – “Andy, Denilson was an important player in the side. That’s precisely way Wenger used him so much.

    And so important we let him go on loan?

    When he was on the up, he was an important player. When he began to stagnate, he was overtaken by Song and then Wilshere and Diaby. While he was an important player, he started almost every game. After he was overtaken by other players and looked unlikely to get a game, he was sent on loan.
    Does that clear it up for you? One phase of his career came after the first. both phases were not happening at the same time.

    @ hunter
    love the passion – keep it up!

    @ Evil
    thanks for the update on Denilson. I hope he makes it. Decent human being and a more than decent player.

  188. George,

    Since the Eboue debacle I have expected the worst and frequently not been disappointed. Arshavin deserves what all our players deserve from those attending games: “support”.

    Such are the times and I feel confident that those of us who have maintained even the minimum amount of loyalty expected from supporters will find it easier to live with ourselves come better times. Of course, I’m assuming that those who could not get past venting their personal frustrations at the expense of others have enough sense or pride to be embarassed by their very public and obvious failings.

  189. @ Dgob
    “Of course, I’m assuming that those who could not get past venting their personal frustrations at the expense of others have enough sense or pride to be embarassed by their very public and obvious failings.”

    Well, that’s your first mistake right there!

    But seriously, the issue is backing the players and the manager. It’s not about losing face or being right about someone’s potential, it’s about whether or not you believe it is right to support everyone who is wearing an Arsenal shirt. I do.

    ****
    Spooky fact: Arteta hardly ever blinks…

  190. Andy: “And so important we let him go on loan?

    And so important we had a horrible record of embarrassing collapses?

    Such a good player that not one one of Europe’s better (of average for that matter) teams would take him on loan. There were plenty of PL teams trying to get Frimpong on loan, but not one for Denilson. You don’t find that strange?

    The fact he was an important member of the team just shows how low our standards had fallen then. I will say no more on the matter as it is an old and often gone over argument. I accept that we don’t agree on it, and that is fair enough.”

    How do you know he was even offered to other European clubs on loan, Andy? Like most doomers, you seem to have made up your mind about Denilson without taking the time to verify your information. I agree with Steww, you have more than a bit of the Jabbas about you.

    You are scapegoating as well, Andy? Don’t make it seem like Denilson was responsible for our embarrassing collapses. A young man by the name of Cesc Fabregas was at Arsenal for six seasons if I recall. Are you going to absolve him because everyone else kisses his ass? How about young Nasri? Don’t you get defensive when some of us call him a half season wonder? Thought so. Again, like Jibber you are breaking your neck to cast blame on players who didn’t even feature last season.

    Bullshit, Andy. Don’t you remember when we went undefeated for all those games a few seasons back and made it into the CL? Denilson was very good that season and a lot of people credit him for that fantastic run of games. I’m sure you don’t, but then again, you suffer from selective memory syndrome.

  191. Markus, Le Coq was carefully scouted and later nurtured at our academy. Him, Wilshere and Frimpers have a similar approach to their game. I don’t think he plays the way he does by accident.

  192. Asking Denilson to play dm was a bit like asking Djorou to play lb.
    Denny was always for me more of a crewt

  193. Limestone….The problem with being in the correct frame of mind for a football player is that the income they are making should be a perpetual state of 100 % all out. If that state of mind is something that is beyond them, then it should be a quick walk through the door. A. A. should have been back to the Russian Tundra years ago! I cannot think of a more worthy candidate to be watering the Likens in the frozen North. The fact that we have been holding on to the great Russian hope is beyond anything that I can understand. Oh, I know he has his occasional flurries down the wing but his attempts on goal usually end up flying high into the London fog. Arshavin’s qualities have long evaporated and his football nuance should be donated to the Salvation Army.

  194. George at 4:15.

    It was amusing and I apologize for not giving you credit. Unusually busy recently so unfortunately some things go flying past without my realizing just how how good they are. Don’t give up!! Without really trying you have become one of the best posters on the blog.

  195. FunGunner: “When he was on the up, he was an important player. When he began to stagnate, he was overtaken by Song and then Wilshere and Diaby. While he was an important player, he started almost every game. After he was overtaken by other players and looked unlikely to get a game, he was sent on loan.
    Does that clear it up for you? One phase of his career came after the first. both phases were not happening at the same time.”

    Thank you, Funny. I’d like to add that Denilson didn’t exactly stagnate in the way some players go from being good players to losing form and dropping off. The boy had a pretty awful back injury and his development came to a screeching halt as a result. Therefore criticizing Denilson is no different than stating that Alex Song wasn’t fit to wear the shirt or wanting to get rid of Van Persie and Diaby because they have/had problems with injuries. They are all good players who had to deal with the ups and downs of blossoming infront of packed crowds in some of the most daunting stadiums in Europe.

    What people like Andy tend to forget are the subtle little things which most of us appreciate in our young players. As far as Denilson, what made me become a huge fan of his was when he started the 08/09 season looking like a beast. He made a jump in quality which was apparent to many of us and not too apparent to his detractors. That’s the season when he scored a few blinders and was just unstoppable. It was also one of our most dissapointing seasons due to Eduardo’s injury and our subsequent falling apart. But, hey, these were embarrassing collapses for the likes of Andy and Bill. It’s sad that they only remember that while completely forgetting all the thrills and spills of seasons past.

  196. Lime, that drop off was at the beginning of the season. He got red carded a few times and had to work his way back into the team. If you watch the Brazilian league and compare it to England you’d know why he got red carded so frequently. The Brazilians make Barcelona and Madrid look like Rugby players. Over there diving is more than cheating. It’s an art form. As far as his development is concerned, he has cemented his place in Sao Paulo’s side and is even playing Copa Sudamerican matches last time I checked. I haven’t followed him since the christmas break, but I am not surprised by what Evil mentioned.

  197. BIg Al!

    Yu bad to mmy yute!

    Excellent stuff!

  198. Some one earlier said that this team would not win without additions and I agree. We need to add Wilshere, Diaby, Santos, Jenks and Frimpong to the mix.

    All fit and healthy, we are the best team in the blow wow PL.

    MI SEH!

  199. FFS – Andy is not a doomer – he makes some pretty decent points many of which upset the doomer fraternity and many of which upset the ultra-left. Good for him. If we are going to start bracketing moderates who express opinions contrary to our own there would never be any conversation worth having, period.
    Andy and I agree but there are definite areas of disagreement also – but comparing him to Jabba is low and just plain wrong.
    Disagree by all means but a little less hyperbole and name-calling would be better for all surely? It’s like listening to republicans labelling all ‘liberals’ as lefty-pinko-communists; dumb hysterical binary viewpoint sensationalism.
    I thought this was meant to be a dialogue?
    Denilson was good/decent but little more than that and Wenger clearly eventually lost faith in him – he couldn’t get a game for love nor money for some time before he was sold.
    In a way Denilson is another example of the middle ground getting obliterated – most fan’s thought he was okay but never great. And yet he was unfairly crucified by one end and so, in defensive response, it seems the other end have to compensate by overstating just how amazing he was.
    He was good player not as good as we (ultimately including Wenger) had hoped – he is still young and may have bright future but that’s guess work for all involved.

  200. Gains @ 5:15:

    I thought that was the 07/08 season that eduardo was injured and our defense collapsed during the last 12 games.

    Regarding the last couple of sentences of that post, You don’t improve by dwelling on the positive and ignoring the negative. Quite the opposite I think. You improve by dwelling on the negative and doing something to fix it. For example we spent 3-4 seasons rightfully talking about our lovely attacking football but not doing nearly enough to fortify the defense. Our attacking flair never got the reward it deserved. Everything could have turned out at lot differently had we spent more time thinking about the negative stuff and actually fixing it, don’t you think?

  201. @ G69
    “The boy had a pretty awful back injury and his development came to a screeching halt as a result.”

    Fair point.

  202. @ Bill
    “You don’t improve by dwelling on the positive and ignoring the negative. Quite the opposite I think. You improve by dwelling on the negative and doing something to fix it. ”

    You’ve been dwelling on the negative for years. When are you going to put all your “no-brainer” solutions into practice and turn us into another Invincibles, eh?
    We – the fans – are not responsible for coaching the team. The only thing we can do which helps is support the team.

  203. FG,I always like your posts but

    “We – the fans – are not responsible for coaching the team. The only thing we can do which helps is support the team.”

    Although factual.It would rather make this and other blogs redundant.

  204. This is hilarious, btw:

  205. No it wouldn’t Pg – we can talk all we like, take whatever views we like – it’s just fans chatting on a blog.

  206. @ PG
    the point of blogs is they’re like virtual football pubs. It’s somewhere to go to talk about Arsenal all day and all night if you want to. Some of the stuff I read is very interesting and some days I feel I have learned a lot. But that’s just for me – it has no impact on what the team does or how they play.

  207. Jonny: “FFS – Andy is not a doomer – he makes some pretty decent points many of which upset the doomer fraternity and many of which upset the ultra-left. Good for him. If we are going to start bracketing moderates who express opinions contrary to our own there would never be any conversation worth having, period.”

    Don’t make it sound as if people like Steww or I don’t respect a differing point of view. What we mock is all the slating of players and the manager that these so called “moderates” engage in. And why do you you shit on Jabba and not Andy eventhough they hold the same exact position on certain issues? And when did standing up for your own players become an ultra-left position?

  208. FG I only meant we (supporters) would have no one to argue with

  209. “We – the fans – are not responsible for coaching the team. The only thing we can do which helps is support the team.” I honestly don’t think anyone is under delusions otherwise are they??

  210. Evil, thanks so much for investigating that, which is good news for Denilson and for Arsenal. I feared that the English game had ruined him for leagues that like to call the game very tight!

    If he comes back to Arsenal after a good run in Brazil, it will help our squad or help his transfer value if he or the club want to move on.

  211. PG, I am trying to hold onto some faint glimmer of hope because I love AA. But I agree with the rest of your comment.

  212. Arsene Wenger spends 15 years bringing stability ,class and dignity to Arsenal .And a section of our own fans do their best to destroy his good work.

  213. I meant 07/08, Bill. Cannabis causes memory loss, I guess.

    Bill, if all you do is dwell on the negative you get the same result as only dwelling on the possitive. The only reason I bring the possitives up is to counterbalance your negativity.

  214. Fun.

    Fortunately none of what we say here has any effect on what actually happens but the reason many of us interact on a blog is because we enjoy talking about the club and we like to pretend that what we think is somehow important although I hope none of us really believes that. I tend to focus on what I think the club could do to improve while you obviously don’t like to talk about that. To each their own.

  215. @ PG
    Pah. Of course we would. As I said, we can take any view we like, explain what tactics we would employ if we were in charge etc, form opinions about players’ strengths and weaknesses etc, in other words, everything we argue about now. But it’s still just us chatting.

  216. Gains, I thought the same thing at the time when I read about all his early red cards and concluded that it was going to be a big adjustment to the Brazilian league after England. I occasionally watch a game on GolTV and it is clear the officiating is completely different.

    I think Neymar is going to find it a big adjustment even in Spain if he goes there. Forget the Premier League.

  217. What I say Bill is very important to me.
    It is what I believe and what i am.
    How could that not be important?

  218. Funny, Bill has been harping about our defence for years now and I’m convinced he hasn’t a clue how our team defends.

  219. Bill, you think we did not do anything on the defensive side for a number of years? Do you really believe that?

    Gallas and Toure moved from our club to do very well. These are both seasoned internationals. That we were not as good as we would like is no indication that nothing was being done. As a matter of fact we were very good last season up until Djourou got injured and we did not fail at the back only.

    If you actually listen to the player, they talk a lot of fighting for eachother. I dare say, more than anything else, we had some players who though talented were not ready to fight.

  220. I watched the 2nd leg of the Barca vs Arsenal match and trust me that was a defensive materclass. Barca did not threaten nearly as much as we were lead to believe. Apart from a gift they did not look likely to score.
    After the own goal, Barca looked out of sorts and were there for the taking. As we were starting to push forward the clown sent off RVP, it was at the point that Barca regained the momentum. We would have won that game.

  221. I think Arteta has been one of the best things to happen to our side from the mentality point of view. That and RvP as captain.

    I would like to see Arteta creating more in attack because I think he can help there, but the way he has been playing deeper has been extraordinarily mature and valuable to our recovery. It doesn’t seem an accident to me that we stumbled a bit when he was out and have more or less righted things when he came back in. He may never blink, but maybe that is why he doesn’t miss much out there on the pitch!?!

    The other player we miss most, I think, is Andre Santos. The 8 games he played were our best run of results this season. He improves our attack and is actually a very good defender and is excellent, excellent in the air. Very big, strong but an unorthodox fullback. I’ve really missed him. 7amkickoff did a statistical look at our defenders this season and Santos had phenomenal numbers in duels of all kinds. I doubt we’ll see too much of him this season but if he comes back like he was this fall for next season, our back line will be superb. Very exciting.

  222. Gains @ 6:32.

    LOL. You do have a sense of humor when you decide not to be such a curmudgeon. Oops, I mean so passionate.

  223. Sounds like it is going to be very cold in England this weekend and we are heading way up north. It’s going to be a tough game. I will be thrilled to get 3 points from this fixture. On the other hand I’ll be depressed if we only get a point or lose because there just isn’t much room for maneuver. With all the other top 6 or 7 playing each other practically, this is a chance to make up some ground possibly. Unfortunately, Sunderland have been playing like a top 6 side recently, so this is a big away game.

    No one has reacted to my lineup above, but perhaps it is pretty clear who we’ll start.

  224. @Spy 3.59

    “Go to a game and see him play”. I am a long standing season ticket holder for more years than you have probably been on the planet so i have been seeing Theo regularly and stand by my opinion of him
    You are also entitled to your opinion too, it makes for good banter which surely is what a football blog is about IMO.

  225. I totally agree with you about Neymar, Lime. The way they are talking about him goes way beyond what people were saying about Ronaldinho, Tevez and Riquelme before they went to Europe. I think this has to do with PR standards in Brazil. Ever since their press got Murdoched about a decade ago Brazilians have taken to putting a possitive spin on anything and everything having to do with Brazil. That’s why you have the press claiming that Brazil is no longer a third world country, yet its affluent citizens move around their cities in helicopters and armored cars. That’s also why you get a whole bunch of mediocre players to play in the Copa America and it’s considered a national tragedy when they get kicked out in the second round by a team they used to toy with. Hopefully, now that Neymar was showed up by Messi in the Intercontinental cup, all this hype will end soon.

    Yeah, Deni had problems adjusting to the refereeing standards and also the pace of the game. The Brazilian league is painfully slow at times and I would imagine players from a much faster league would have to adjust their game to less frequent runs being made and having much more time on the ball. I haven’t watched him since the christmas break, but I think he’s probably settled in nicely after enjoying some game time over there.

  226. George.

    I’m not completely sure if you are being serious, more likely just trying to lighten the mood but just in case you are not i agree that what we think is extremely important to each of us.

    The way I should have worded that was “what we say on the blog has no effect on how the club is run.”

    We do like to pretend that’s not true but we all know differently. Fortunately there are some very well paid people who know a lot more about football who actually run the club. Doesnt change the fact that you and I have opinions about what they do. Thats a huge part of the fun of being a sports fan.

  227. I loathe the use of the word deadwood to describe players at the club. Very demeaning and disrespectful.

  228. Lime, I also think we missed Gervinho. Missing him and Santos, then Arteta was a big blow. This is why I never bought into the panic buying mentality some were engaging in. We’re slowly getting to our best and I have no doubt we’ll pip Spurs for that third place spot. I know that ten points seems unsurmountable to some, but they face Newcastle in the week end and then us the week after. If they draw against Newcastle and lose to us that makes it a six point difference with them having to play United and other big teams in their upcoming fixtures.

  229. Bill ,you know me all to well now 🙂

  230. Lime, the only change I would make to your line up would be Rosicky for Ramsey in the middle. This is the type of game where we need our experienced players to bring us forward. Personally, I’d have Ramsey come off the bench in the 65th to help us push forward if we’re level or keep him sat down until Rosicky starts petering off if we’re infront.

  231. Gains, what I wonder about that, because I certainly agree about Rosicky, is whether we could expect Rosicky to start midweek v. Milan, which I think he is especially cut out for. I know Ramsey may give the ball away a bit more and hang onto it a bit longer, so if he played a bit deeper and Arteta joined the attack more it could work well.

    Interesting issue, but if Ramsey came off early, Rosicky might be able to start v. Milan. So I could go with that too.

  232. Paul @ 6:39

    Old old discussion but the stuff we tried to fix the defense during those years didnt work well enough. Poor defending was the single biggest reason for the relative lack of success of that generation of players IMO and had we been able to fix it things would have turned out much better then they did. We have discussed this in incredible detail that does need to be revisited, but all the brain power we had in our coaching staff should have come up with a solution that worked, given the importance of the problem.

  233. Re: Gervinho, it is of course an obvious miss. He is an important player for us. But, less crucial because Arshavin, the Ox, and Benayoun all play there fairly well, and in the case of the Ox recently, quite superbly.

    Back on the lineup, thinking it over, I could start Ramsey v. Milan. He has actually been excellent in Europe this season and Milan might give him enough time on the ball that he can pick out some through balls to Theo and RvP, plus he is a genuine scoring threat even if the goals haven’t been coming the last month or so. It’s a toss up–what do you think?

  234. “I accept one basic principle for every company; that you can spend the money you make,” he said.

    “It always looks like a massive surprise that I have to convince you of that. I think it is just natural common sense and logic”.

    AW
    http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-we-are-paying-back-our-stadium-debt

    Will the doomers ever get it?

  235. George @ 7:09

    😆

  236. Limestone.

    I think we should start TR7 against Sunderland. If he can’t go against milan then AR could start but based on what we have seen recently I think we are a better club right now with tr7. We have some really difficult league fixtures upcoming and we are running out of games. A loss/ draw or 2 in games we should win coupled with a win streak by any of the other 4th place hopefuls would kill our hope of CL football next season. IMO that has to be top priority. Besides if we don’t win in Milan we have another game to make it up.

  237. i was gonna write(before my iphone kinda rudly messed up everything(!))
    that Denlson for me is like a younger Arteta. Hes not a Song so to play him in the Song role was always gonna be a disaster. Abit like playing Djorou in the Sanga role. Yes both JD and Deni has had good games in their akward posisions but at the end of the day Djorou is a CB and showed last year he could be a very good one. While Deni is not well god knows what Song really is, but bottom line is he did not suit that role at all for me.

    He did best for us what Arteta does now. Simple passes, keep the ball moving etc etc.
    I think if we had Arteta two years ago Denilson would have become good. But playing that role takes some routine and some experience.
    Denilson was very good in the final third in his younger days. I think forcing him into a role he was not meant to play was the end of him..

    And yes the fact he played so many games in that role does indeed highlight how thin we were before Songs emergence…
    But it never showed that Denilson was a bad player, just that he was in my opinion used in the wrong position. Never played very well in that wrong position and thus at times just looked very out of his depths…

  238. I agree TR7 has recently been better for us, but that is partly because Ramsey has looked a bit tired. The questions for me are who is better up in the cold north against a counter-attacking long ball team? and who is better against a technical Serie A side in Europe? Because, it seems unlikely the same player, particularly Rosicky, would start both games. I can go either way but perhaps the different kind of competition and opposition aren’t as relevant as the players’ form/fit in the side.

    I can see the logic of starting the strongest side in the league and then making the necessary adjustment in mid-week if needed.

  239. You paint wonderful pictures with your words One of Us – I love your work!

  240. Bill, we failed for various reason’s.

    My issue is the difinitive statement’s that you make. You have claimed that we did NOTHING as far as defending for years. That just cannot be true.

  241. Limestone.

    Agree

    I think the league is a much higher priority then the CL right now and we look like a better team right now with TR7 in that spot.

  242. Re TR7 or Rambo?
    Both are wonderful players one just ever so slightly past their best and the other not anywhere near their best yet,
    Either playing in any match is fine with me.
    But I do think Thomas is a little ahead ,thinking wise,of young Aaron.
    Thomas AA and RVP seem to think quicker than the rest.And you can add Jack in when he is fit.

  243. As far as Denilson. A brilliant player when he first came on the scene. Injuries messed him up and I believe if not for that, he would have been a brilliant player for us.
    Say what you want, but any player that can play that well against Barcelona has something about them. They simpy cannot be dross, like some would want us to believe.

  244. Highbury/
    Fair enough- I’ve been on the planet a while also ha ha

  245. @paul N thats the difference between Bendtner and Denilson. Denilson did play well against barcelona.Niclas effecitvely made sure we went out after missing a sitter!!!
    God hes annoying..lol

  246. Lol Poodle,it was hardly a sitter .

    Th14 missed much more of “sitters” in Paris.

    That does not mean I don’t think Nicky is an idiot,mind

  247. lol @ Poodle.

    You are right about that! If he had to talk the ball in the goal we would have been through.

  248. @pedantic, ppft
    thats not the point ( i added sitter just because it was sooo annoyiung). let me be a moaner for once will you 😛

    Nicky is very annying, end of 🙂

  249. @george as jabba and suga would have said ” my three legged cat could have scored there”.
    But he should have scored though….

  250. He always scores some good goals for his country though. He is talented.

  251. He plays in his best position for his country Paul And he is the main man,and he loves it.
    Least we forget he scored some very vital goals for us a couple of years since .And when only half fit as well!

  252. JW put that ball on a plate. Unbelievably good pass but he couldn’t get the right touch to keep the ball away from the defender and away from the out of position Valdez. RvP would have buried that without thinking.

  253. But it wasn’t an easy chance, all told, just that RvP’s touch is so much better. And Henry did miss easier ones v. Barcelona, as George points out.

  254. Paul @ 8:08

    I’m sorry if you don’t like my choice of words. I guess I should spend more time thinking about how it reads. That heaven that you are always diligent. Just think of the terrible stuff I might get away with if it was not for guys like you and gains and evil and George. 😆

  255. Perhaps LG.
    But RVP missed a real sitter the other week did he not?
    He was a long way out and I did not see it as a gilt edge chance.
    As I said, Henry missed easier to win the CL let alone qualify for the semi’s

  256. Come on Bill,we are buddies.You get away with murder with me.

  257. hunter 13
    your post @205
    my sentiments exactly. That is the precise reason I admire the players we have had in the present and passed for THE ARSENAL. it takes a certain type of player this. One who is sharp to know what is going on. One brave enough to play for us. One with unflinching loyalty and faith. For the most part AW has brought in the right characters in. But he had been wrong on a few occasions. The weak shores have been NA$RI, ADEE, FLAMONEY ,HELB and the original of all impatiant ones ANELKA AND CASHLY.
    if it was mw ,I would probably bent some of the rules and kept our senior. Players a bit longer to support the young ones coming through. That said ,I don’t know all that went on behind close doors and as such cannot. And won’t second guess AW. GILBERTO AND ROBERT COULD HAVE AND PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN OFFERED TWO YEAR EXTENTIONS AS OPPOSED TO ONLY ONE.

  258. Agreed George. He scored some brilliant and vital goals for us. He is a good player.

  259. ofc but had he scored there, he would not have played for Sunderland this year. I think we may miss him this year tbh… With an out of form Chamakh and an non playing Park, plus a tiering RvP he may finally have been allowed to play in is fave position even. As you say george hes worked out for us before as a decent squad player.

    However again, had he scored back then, against Barcelona and taken Arsenal throgh. He would not have been in Sunderland today, tahts for sure. With that goal he would have sent himself into stardom and finally justified his “best striker in the world” claims.

  260. wonder if Bendtner will come back and play. Maybe if he has a good run in with Sunderland he can be given a chance next year….

  261. Bill, being the positive guy I am, I am going to put a positive spin on your comments. Put it like this, between you, JJ and Jabba. I know exactly what is going at Arsenal.

    ha!

  262. Have a great weekend everyone.

  263. Theo- ‘No football brain’
    Must have been a stroke of luck on both assists for RVP to stay onside then.

  264. Excellent, Big Al

  265. yes paul, you made your point :p

  266. so conclusion must be, a shame he did not stay this year as he could well have been given chancces ahead of Chamakh and stepped in for RvP when he needed a rest….

  267. Thank you Paul N. If those clips were of a guy we’d been linked with in the press the same people who slag big Nick would be clamouring for us to sign him.
    I detest all the name calling and rudeness. He’s an Arsenal player ffs.

  268. George, I was just talking about the goal and thinking of the unfortunate injustice that RvP wasn’t on the pitch. I believe that we would have been through if he had been.

  269. “we never allowed our youngsters to grow into men…we “killed” them psychologically.”

    Spot on Hunter

  270. Great stuff Big Al. Embarrassingly good.

  271. Are you not saying Utd are one of the best clubs in the world? They are a club who we try and emulate in allot of ways so you shuld think before you write.

    wow. what a depressing thought, thank fuck its about as much bollocks as a bulls nuts.

    highbury lament, the jurys not out on you though is it.

  272. Lime, Rosicky to unlock the parked bus defense of Sunderland and Ramsey to run Van Bommel ragged. That’s what makes the most sense to me.

  273. Just spent about an hour reading through the comments in detail. A lot of new regular posters and it’s interesting to see the positions taken, from passionate defence of certain players to a cold realism of what we require from others.

    One theme that crops up is the idea that the rebuild and regeneration of the team will take 6 to 7 years, and we keep living for tomorrow and don’t have the players for today. I think Bill was expressing this concern, and one or two others hold this view.

    On a couple of levels, I can’t see how this is true. As Hunter said recently, we have a youth academy at Hale End and Colney Heath, followed by loan arrangements, that is effectively a production line. We don’t have to wait 6 to 7 years for a player to mature. Szczesny, Wilshere, Gibbs, Coquelin are all first teamers… now. Denilson was in the 1st team, Bendtner, Clichy, Fabregas, Diaby… all figured for the 1st team as early as when they were 17 or 18. It is one argument to say they will fully mature at 24 to 27 etc, but to say that Cesc was not ready when he was 18.. sorry.. he was that good. Look at Ramsey, ok, not a strict product of our academy, but he has made 30 appearances already this season – at the age of 20. And he has made 90 appearances in total.. already !

    Sure, there is the argument that you don’t win anything with kids. But the point about the production line is that it is not a generational project where you wait every 5 or 10 years. It is a fruit tree that is harvested every year. This year – who have we discovered – Coquelin. Next year ? Perhaps Henderson or Okzykup. The following year, Angha or Aneke. It is a continuous cycle and production line yielding players in contention for the first team.

    Commercially, it is also a vital process as we cannot afford to buy in the numbers of marquee players. We get them at 16, 17, 18 or 19.. and turn them into international and/or world class players. Could we have signed somebody as good as (and with their reputations) Cesc or Wilshere on the open market at the age of 22 or 23 – no.

    Also – I think it’s a a myth that we have indulged in youth at the expense of the team. There are 25 squad positions – I don’t see that any of those positions in the 1st team i.e. the first choice eleven are currently filled with a youngster who is costing us, to use the Wenger phrase – “you pay for their education with points”. The only player 2 young players with definite 1st choice berths are Szczesny, Ramsey and Wilshere. Well… there is an argument that these 3 are yet to reach their peaks – but I don’t think either have costed us adversely. Actually – Ramsey is quite possibly not a first choice, and would be a sub behind Wilshere/Diaby/Song and Arteta. Gibbs is behind Santos, Chamberlain probably behind Gervinho.

    And if the academy doesn’t reveal any fruit, then one has to get out the cheque book. Certainly this has happened with centre backs to a certain extent. Djourou is the only centre back to come through – and he’s 4th/5th choice.

  274. Duke, I have taken my passing by certain comments to another level. I had to look for the comment you quoted before I even knew that Jabba posted today.

    blow wow!

  275. Wow, I hadn’t seen that goal Bendts scored for Denmark. It had quality written all over it.

  276. Duke

    “wow. what a depressing thought, thank fuck its about as much bollocks as a bulls nuts.”

    I like the way you cut to the chase with some of your observations.

  277. On the question of AARON OR THOMAS, I think the latter should play in the CL game, but I don’t understand why they can’t rotate in the same game. One half each. And yes, the weather looks like it will be a factor. Best get the snooks out or mothball storage. 🙂
    By the way, long live the away fans. Great devotion.
    Ps. AA should feature. Against AC.

  278. I like Gains idea of Rosicky today and Rambo on Wednesday, makes perfect sense to me as AC Milan could feel the wrath and engine of a returnig Rambo

  279. Excellent post Muppet. Anyone sitting on the fence in this or any other debate should in my humble opine simply read Muppet’s post. Now, just compare the thoughtful intelligent rational and factual nature of his argument with those who decry Arsene and Arsenal’s approach to internal promotion and external signings. Look at how loose and poorly argued their case is, see the lack of facts and analysis and above all the simple refusal to understand fairly obvious truths.
    That’s why I’m on the side of the good guys and why I feel AIC, Goonerandy, Suga, Jabba, Spectrum, Luke and all the others wearing varying shades of grey and black are just plain wrong.

  280. FG,

    You’re probably right about the niavety of my assumption! I’m not certain if supporting the players and manager and/or investing one’s personality in announced opinions are mutually exclusion though.

    I fear that the comments initiated electronically or in print are really not equivalent to your average pub’ debate. I say this on two counts. Firstly, the potential audience for the former far exceeds any secluded discussions where opinions and their impact can be ignored as local and unimportant. Second and most importantly, the bile expressed in these domains tends to make its way into the Emirates and that has a detrimental effect on the confidence and performance of our players.

    Not quite “loose lips sink ships time” but not far off.

  281. FG,

    I watch his interviews with the same alarm. The interviewer must feel a little uneasy!

  282. Steww – I agree with you. Muppets post is excellent, and is on the money. I agree with everything he has written, but my overall stance just has one bit extra. I honestly believe that by adding one or two more quality experienced players over the years to the excellent crop of young players we have produced the side would have been successful. I am convinced of that.

    I am not talking breaking the bank either, I am talking a few more signings in the mould of Arteta (for example). I know you think I have extreme views, but I don’t think that is all that extreme is it?

    These signings would have worked twofold. Firstly they would have improved squad depth and secondly they would have helped the young players mature. That is where my overall feeling of frustration stems from over the past 6 years. We were so so close a number of times, and I don’t think we took the next step when we could have.

  283. Lots of defence of our players which is always good. The love child thing is just my way of dealing with the bad news and fathoming decisions.

    Generic statements about how much our JD has given is not so good – and pretty much indefensible when you look at his performances.

    At the beginning of last season he may have had a couple of ‘good’ matches which for some has left a good impression, but generally by the end of last season he was a defensive calamity that when injury forced AW to use him I would argue undermined our ability to attack as well as defend. This season he may have been in a match where he was not involved in a goal against us, but we have won little more than a match that he has been involved in a whole calendar year: he has been sent off, given the ball away,been unable to clear the ball from danger to the extent he is rarely used in the central position any more. He does not pass well or head the ball, shys away from tackles, he is slow to anticipate, he is positionally naive and has little confidence. (not helped by people like me, I suppose, but call a shovel a shovel)

    But the reason why this is a bad week is because, with a limited squad, we really do need to replace some of the bottom players in the club with either youth – which JD is not any longer – or experience, which you cannot say he offers. In the 9 years that he has been at the club he has at best been just cover for injured players and more damning, he has never found a position that anyone trusts him to play in. Out wide at the back? It leaves us open to Bale, Nanni and anything else teams wish to throw at us, while removing our attacking options. The same united that were supposed to have clenched buttocks at his threat of revenge for the 8-2 debacle, actually chose to throw everything down his side and carved up a good few chances and goal for their understanding of the word weakness. They see it, why can’t we?

    We could have just let him gently slip away into the footballing abyss, I can only hope that the renewed contract is because we do not want to loose value in a player, but then I don’t see $hiitey or anyone else queueing up to buy him. Potential value? Less than half a million at age 25.

    If you really want to shut me up with this, please answer with some facts and figures, rather than generic statements and or insults (even if the cap does fit). We have a limited squad which regularly requires proper backup, cover and depth and this is a genuine area that we can improve our team and our chances in those tough, ‘oh shit everyone except the bottom feeders are injured’ matches.

    ..and be careful what you wish for.