Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | March 28, 2008

Injury Catch Up And Terry Neill’s A Good Bloke

International week seems to have passed off peacefully as far as injuries are concerned with Arsene  reporting that no-one is reported injured although the news that Bacary Sagna is out for at least three weeks is not good at all given that he has been the most consistent defender all season. Presumably, it leaves Arsene with two options; either drop Eboue into the Right Back slot and bring Walcott into Right Midfield or simply swap Sagna for Hoyte and leave the rest of the team alone. With five games in the next fourteen days, there is likely to be a mix and match on the approach he takes with the defence and midfield getting a fair bit of rotation.

It will mean opportunities for players such as Gilberto to play a few times before the end of the season. The Brazilian kept up the mantra of still being able to win the league, which whilst it is true, it is also exceptionally difficult. The thought crossed my tiny little mind as to how much of this is trying to convince themselves that it is still possible and how much is belief. Bolton will give a good indication of that.

Of course, if he comes in, then the hardest working midfielder without a new contract  anywhere in western Europe, AKA Mathieu Flamini, who received that “accolade” in a recently conducted poll, will get a well-earned rest for a game. Flamini said before the international against England that his Agent was talking to Arsenal which is more than Joseba Diaz will be doing on Cesc’s behalf at any time in the near future with reports emanating from Spain that the two have come to a parting of the ways, allegedly over Cesc’s desire to remain at Arsenal. Depending on which paper you read, Real and Barcelona are ‘greatly encouraged’ by the ‘news’. That this qualifies as ‘news’ is an indication of how quiet the week has been but at least we know that the summer ahead is going to be another one of ‘Cesc to Barcelona / Real Madrid’ and this is the basis of it.

Recent criticism of Arsene being impregnable in various quarters was going to bring forth a rebuke yesterday from myself but alas working time encroached from before dawn ‘til after dusk and in the meantime, Terry Neill did the job for me.

What I believe must happen - and, indeed, believe will happen - is Arsene will now transfer the responsibility to his players. It is time for each individual in the squad to ask himself ‘what am I going to do about it?’

Part of the frustration is that Arsene has not spent his ‘war chest’ and with the current dip in form, people question the wisdom of not doing so. It is of course, an unanswerable question because even if he had spent the money, there are several issues to be answered; firstly, would we be in the top three? Would the ‘new’ players make any difference now? Would they have been able to halt the dip in form? The answer is that you will never know. Neill agrees with this,

The strength in depth of our squad is not as good as Chelsea and Manchester United’s - that is a fair comment. But we are looking long-term here and, let’s be honest, at the start of the season if you’d told the average fan we’d still be in the race for the title with seven games to go they’d have been delighted.

On that one, Neill is correct; looking back at the pre-season comments left by you all, there is a fair smattering of the ‘we will win it’ optimism but the undercurrent was that the expectation was for a top three finish and being a lot closer than we had been in previous years. The gap in points ought to be smaller but that depends on the players winning their matches otherwise it will be double digits.

To measure the progress on that alone is misleading for whilst the history books show the statistics, the truth is that in the past two seasons, there has been no realistic title challenge. The team have learnt harshly that the season does not finish in February and that consistency post-Christmas ends with the glory.

As to Arsenal being impregnable at the club, I do not think that is the case. What you have is a manager who has told the Board of his long term plan and it was sound enough for them to buy into it. It also highlights the collective strength of character of the Directors that they are backing him to the hilt to see the project through. Or as Neill put it,

Arsene’s is a long-term project that will, eventually, bear fruit. It is easy to spend money and be reckless but that is not the Arsene way or the Arsenal way - and, for me, that is definitely the correct way to do things. If Roman Abramovich was to pull the plug on his little toy - Chelsea - they’d be in a horrendous financial position. People don’t fully appreciate the debt Manchester United have taken on.

This does not mean Wenger is impregnable as one commenter put it. If the club went into decline, he would be under pressure from the Board to rectify that although if you go by his comments last summer, he would fall on his sword before he was pushed. All successful clubs have dominant managers. It is no coincidence that before the 1990s Liverpool had a stable management position with succession planning making for a smooth transition. United have been successful with the same manager. They have stood by Ferguson through a transition because of his previous success and the Arsenal Board are doing the same with Wenger. Is that so wrong?

‘til Tomorrow.

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Responses

Of course not, and anyone that suggests any different simply isn’t thinking long-term. Wenger has a strategy that’s starting to pay off. Young players tend to improve season on season. They all know they’re part of a big plan. Success will come.

Everyone seem to forget how insane football is becoming, money-wise.

The spending by Man Utd is not sustainable. Chelsea is kind of an anomaly that no club should aspire to. People shouldn’t look to those clubs for examples of what Arsenal should be doing - if anything, it should be the other way around.

What about bringing Senderos in alongside Gallas and moving Toure to right back?

perfectly agree with YW and Big Al, it just shud be the other way round in terms of learning how to run business…like i said in the previous post, if we wer to spend so much so easily…we wont be “The Arsenal” we r today…And very gud point abt whether the new bought players wud have done well in the first season itself…and if they hadnt we wud always have ppl running for excuses like “its only his first season”…drogba took over a season to be in the form he is now, how can we be so much sure of any new player…and abt anelka…wenger himself says he doesnt buy back players who have left the club once…so no confusion on tht…
hope the boys just concentrate on getting back to winning ways…adn dont worry abt winning/losing the title now.

No Yogi, nothing wrong with that at all. In fact I recommend the board for standing behind him and not getting scared of some ugly media and sadly some fans. The wrong comes from the impatient fans who only care about their own happiness and the desire to brag “Look who did we bought today? A Super Duper Star”.

I ask the people who are attacking Wenger and giving Man United as an example of success. Why didn’t they attack Fergie when he didn’t win nothing for three years? Because they knew he was building a new team even with all the ready made players. They knew his past and that he is capable of winning again……….Not sure why people don’t want to give Wenger the same chance?

G4E

I suppose its time to answer the questions no one else wants too .. It is the ETHAN way …
———————————————————
firstly, would we be in the top three?YES
we have never been out of the top 4 .. so go figure!

Would the ‘new’ players make any difference now?
If arsene picked them the answer would also be a big YES

Would they have been able to halt the dip in form?
Quite possibly depending who was purchased ,
I would say definitely if we got another solid defender and a class striker included within the new personnel!

If Roman Abramovich was to pull the plug on his little toy - Chelsea - they’d be in a horrendous financial position.

I dont think so, abrimovic has spent 578 Mil on chevski . and im sure he would of got a buyer who would pay more that the above figure to balance the books .

Also why would he ? Andif he sold all his players that he currently owns and replaced them with virtual unknowns (the arsenal way)
he would re-coupe a fair slab of that money !
players are a huge asset and selling drogs anelka lamard terry essien would get him well over 100 mil alone ! When talking about buying players the money doesn’t simply disappear ! players are assets ! Whilst they are managed correctly they will remain so ! .
And as for Man U , they have Up graded , taken a
business loan out like all big businesses do if they want to get bigger , and with correct management
it wont fail ! They are in every big competition, and god knows what prize money you get for finishing the league 1st every season but im sure we wont see them going into bankruptcy any time soon !

Cases in point-

Senderos, Fabregas (before injury), RVP (before injury), Song, Ade, Flamini, Clichy - even Walcott have all been markedly better than they were last season.

Song and Senderos were (rightly or wrongly) club jokes this time last year - look at them now and try and deny their progress

The only worries are the fringe players - the likes of Traore, J. Hoyte and Diaby don’t look up to snuff. But according to all accounts there’s a whole generation of talented youngsters, many of whom are English, about to break through.

Big Al - I 100% agree with what you say
Yogis warrior - The dropping of eboue to RB and Theo in to right wing is the way forward
And just one thought of my own to team changes how about dropping Ade and give Bendtner a start?

As for sagna out , eboue will be moved back into the role giving theo a birth ! ill bet my bottom dollar on that one !

hoorray !

I totally agree with how wenger’s vision works and is slowly coming to fruition, BUT having said that I still felt the squad was always too thin before the season started. I talked about it all summer long and I am not in the slightest bit surprised that in March the lack of depth has told.
Now I dont know whether wenger could have bought another one or two youngish (21?) players in to reduce that problem but I do know he has had a lot of money to spend and could have brought in at least 1 big player - God knows several big players (or their agents) were quoted as saying they would like to join a club like Arsenal, but the transfers never materialsed.

Its true you can never guarenteee that that player will be a success or not get injured. But if wenger had covered his bases and then things dont work out then what fan can possibly criticise him? I just think wenger could have prepared for this season better and had he done so I would not complain regardless of what trophies we’d won or not won.
If we were poor, then again you can accept it but its the feeling that we are 95% of the way there adn then we shoot ourselves in the foot.

big al .. what do you know about the sustainability of ManU/Chelsea biz models??

do you have any insight into their books??

as for Chelsea’s bloodsucker, why would he pull the plug on his toy?

what do you reckon he enjoys more .. his position at Chelsea or his governorship of some obscure Siberian province??

why does everybody think that the Arsenl way, whatever it is, is the right one??

clearly results wise it is not

and I would suggest that we need a Dein type character as an addtitional power pole to Wenger..

Ferguson does not decide everything at ManU .. Weger seems to be in total control right now

dont forget that the guy who brought Wenger to this club, ie Dein, and therefore as we would all agree, showed great vision has different views to the people who are running the club right now

and please dont give me the bullshit that Dein is a self centered money making dragon .. Dein wants Arsenal to win .. something that we are struggling to achieve these days

gazzap - I know, it’s a pain in the hole. But the good news is that it’s progress, movement in the right direction and common sense says that it’ll be better next season - It’s not wishful thinking.

Provided Wenger keeps the squad together (deadwood Eboue, Gilberto and Lehmann excepted) and makes a couple of useful, squad-ready signings we should be unstoppable next season.

This season has been a great learning process - we’ve really got to grips with the teams that try to stop us playing. The players that don’t seem mentally tough at this point are learning exactly what you need to win the league.

The last few weeks will be analyzed and fed back to the players in the close season. I’m not just looking forward to August - there’s still plenty to go for now if we can sort ourselves out.

Plan for the season better..???!

lets look at our squad at the start of the season…

GK… Lehmann, Almunia, Fabianski

DF… Eboue, Sagna, Hoyte, Toure, Gallas, Senderos, Clichy, Traore, Djourou, Song

MF… Cesc, Flamini, Diaby, Rosicky, Hleb, Denilson, Gilberto, Song + Walcott + Eboue can play MF.. also Gibbs, Randall, Diarra

FW.. RvP, Ade, Bendner, Eduardo, + Theo can play

Spot a position where we were lackin cover.. Wenger planned for the season better than any other manager.. we have all styles of strikers, playmakers.. if it wasnt for injuries we wuld be laughin..

so stop bitchin people.. Wenger is #1.. u think a manager who is less scared to spend more money will do a betta job!!..?? u must be a muppet to think that

. u think a manager who is less scared to spend more money will do a betta job!!..?? u must be a muppet to think that

you must be more of a muppet to think its been successful also !

Yes we have made progress but so has other clubs,
spurs have got a good manager now, man City will keep spending as shittywarta has already stated then you have the liverpool and everton threats ..
Not to mention aston villa etc who are up and coming also .. We have simply not made enough progress Vs the statue of our club !

The sooner most stand up and admit it the sooner we can motor forward !

And the only puppets - muppets i see are supporters who are happy that we entrenched FIRMLY as a 3rd or 4th place run getters !

Im sure aston villa are also praying for a better season next season ? is that how your blind eye supporters think ?

We have supported this rebuild for the past 3 years now … Its time some questions are asked of this form of management , as it clearly isnt making us go FORWARD .. buoyant or stable is more like prototype i think your looking for to term it simply !

Chris. Lehmann finished Gilberto ditto, Hoyte average at best. Traore useless defensively, Djouru has lost his edge due to injury lack of games, are you off your rocker DIARRA HAS LEFT THE BUILDING, Diably has gone back wards, Rosicky and RVP permanenlty injured, Eduardo out till next year.So thats why we nned a stronger squad. Gibbs and Randall are not setting the world on fire in their loan spells, and Bentdner is not as good as he thinks he is. Compare your squad names with Manu and you will see the difference in depth

Yogi just tell me how long does the transition period last? it cant go on for ever

Chris, the wing positions spring to mind. eboue has not proved to be a good enough winger. he offers no goal threat and his passing at times is woeful not to mention his cheating.
Diaby on the other wing is not a winger. why are these players asked to play on the wing? because we dont have enough proper wingers.
Hleb and Ros are both central players. the former has to play every game so has ended up knackered and thus has reduced his effectiveness at the most crucial time of the season. the latter has always been injury prone. we knew that last summer. a decent bit of cover should have been bought so that Diaby and Cesc etc did not have to play on the wing.

We have strong full backs, excellent central midfielders and good strikers. I also think the goalkeeping situation is fine. thats what I mean by 95% of the way there. I always thought that we were one winger short coming into the season. thats all. its not a lot but it could have made a huge difference.

A lot of the players you mention have not been trusted enough by wenger to actually play games in the first team in PL games. if wenger will not use them then you cannot count them. that is why Fabregas plays every game, because wenger does not trust anyone else to do his job.

I happen to think we will be even better next season. along with other people I always expected 2008-09 to be our first realistic chance of the title. I still feel we let this season go unneccessarily and you cant afford to throw a season away, us fans pay too much money for that and when there is £70m sitting there its gauling to feel we were almost there.

for next season I would sell Rosicky and buy a goalscoring winger as well as welcome Vela. As long as keep Flamini, I think we will have enough to go for the title.

ethan - You must be kidding. We’re one point behind Chelsea. We beat them at home, and lost narrowly away.

We’re progressing very comfortably.

2006 - We got to the CL on the last day.
2007 - Comfy CL qualification, level with ‘pool on points.
2008 - 2 losses all season, well ahead of ‘pool and closer to the title than 3 previous seasons (at this point).

Reasons we’re not on top now -

Injuries that could never have been accounted for, all affecting on-form players and crucial times - Fab, Hleb, RvP, Dudu etc.

Petulance from Diarra (what the hell was his problem?!). Valuable squad player gone.

Some ridiculous decisions in recent weeks - Offsides not called, offsides called wrongly, penalties not given, penalties awarded wrongly.
You need these things to go your way when the team’s down. And every side . Manu and Chelski included have had rough patches this season.

There’s nothing blind-eye about that. It’s actually more myopic to look at the progress that’s happened so far and deny that it’s very likely to continue.

gazzap .. tell me who will wanna buy Rosicky??

Gazzap who says there is 70 million sitting there its just paper talk, we will have ample funds by the end of the year as all the flats are sold and the bank loan will be reduced, but I believ pat of the bond isssue was we had to have 35 milion in reserve and a nett transfer spend of 9 million, Diably is a waste of time playing out of position and cannot be anothef Flamini, I pin my hope on Song and Vela eventually, do you think Traore can make it? thats why Gallas is cover at LB and Song or Senderos can play CB lets finally give Song a chance agaisnt Bolton

sol goon

It should be a lot quicker than 3 years ..
look at the transition spurs have made with little additions to their personnel ! and in 6 months …

It proves that this youth idea takes alot longer than 3 years to manifest ! And we have the dearest tickets in the EPL too boot !
I think the fans should be livid currently !!!

Great we have cemented 3rd spot this season .
but is it really better than last season …

our gap between the top 2 is still the same distance as last seasons , they have the quality to
finish strong .. they can put the foot down and it seems at will pass us when the pressure is on !

Our squad is too thin and still haven’t learned any lessons from last seasons down fall ! people say its a lot tighter this year we aren’t 20 points off the leaders , well we ain’t finished the season yet either ! If we continue this downward spiral we ‘might’ be in exactly the same position as last season !

But then im sure the arsene knows best brigade will conjure up another ‘feel good vivb ‘ to mask the problems !

The way i see it there are 2 major voices in the arsenal supporters. One camp are mainly critics of arsene who have basically one major complaint. We dont look like winning anything. I understand that. The last 2 plus years trophyless is irritating to say the least. The same camp is desperate to win something major at any cost.

The other camp is willing to wait, has faith in arsene not only knowing that the trophies will be won but that they will be done in the most decent and beautiful ways possible. As far as i can see Wenger sticks with his young guns not just for the fact that the team costs less but also because a young team will follow his style of play more readily. If we were a team in the spanish league Wenger would have been a god by now.But really the problem is Wenger spoiled us with trophies in his first 6 years of his reign or so. Now we want them more than ever. But whatever both camps cringe about it will not change the way wenger works or the fact that most arsenal fans wish him to be there for as a long time as possible.

Being a die hard pure football freak myself rather than a plain glory seeker i will always be in awe of wenger for the conviction he has in his beliefs. I also will try making a point to the glory seekers that ajax total football is more clearly remembered than the trophies they won which were quite a few i believe.

well said,

there’s no point getting carried away,

let’s take stock and make any decisions in the cold light of day

didn’t Inter come sniffing around for Ros in January? there would always someone who would take him though I dont think we’d get that much for him. he is not that old though, so I still reckon we’d get 4m for him. we paid 8m I think. freddie went for 5m didn’t he?

sol, PHW said last summer we had ample funds to purchase players but it was wengers choice not to. I understand it was £40m that we had last summer but I am only saying we needed to spend £15m and we certainly had that.

sol, who knows about Traore. he really has gone backwards this season and I heard stories that he has a party lifestyle. if he does not knuckle down then wenger wont want him at Arsenal anyway. should he go, you feel AW will replace him with another young player. that might be the way to go in the summer or AW might give him another year to prove himself, or indeed go on loan.
at the moment the realistic cover for Clichy is Gallas.

maybe Inter came sniffing .. but surely his latest unknown injury will cool that interest off..wouldnt you think so??

nothing against the poor bloke, but he was already a part timer at Dortmund .. and now he has turned into less than a part timer here

I would love to see Hleb go .. I dont think he brings anything to the team and unless we have a TH14 type prolific forward, which we are unlikely to have in the foreseeable future, then Hleb is def a big time luxury player that we should replace with a goal scoring guy

he would fetch some good dosh too ..

Gazzap.

Wouldnt you rather the stadium debt be repaid so the ticket prices come down sooner? Do you really think the club is just trying to garner money or for the fact that we have a lovely stadium to be paid for? Also dont you agree that we will be relieved of the debt faster than manu or chelski? The 70 million available also means we are in a stronger position if a takeover attempt comes along. I know most fans wont notice it but we do have more problems currently than just being trophyless.

The problem with the squad this year is that they started so well, were 5 points clear at the top, and then threw it all away. If you start with low expectations and then overachieve expectations will be raised (rightly or wrongly). Even for this injury hit squad we were well clear at the top with injuries to key players. However, no squad can maintain the grind of the PL with injuries and without rotation of players to keep some fresh. The quality is not there for rotation so key people got worn down with the inevitable dip in form the result. It is understandable for people to be upset with the team despite all the injuries. There are no guarantees in sport. People can say “next year it will all come together” every year for eternity but the fact is you must take your chances when they appear. This year’s squad seems to have been found lacking. I fully expect next year’s squad to be better and stronger no matter who the personnel are but luck plays a big role in winning the PL and sometimes it doesn’t matter how strong the squad is. The bottom line as I see it is that when there is opportunity you take your shot and we will likely come up short this year. Am I upset? Yes. Do I understand why it didn’t happen? I would like to think so. Am I confident for next year? Absolutely! But sometimes the best team doesn’t win and there is nothing to be done about it.

Gallas, Rosicky, Hleb, Eduardo, Adebayor have all been acquired in the last 2-3 seasons. Of the big signings this year: Malouda, Torres, Mascherano, Tevez, Anderson, Nani, Bale, Hutton Anelka? Some maybe but prices to match.

Dein was the reason the reason the club’s wage bill had got to unmanagable levels £70,000 a week for Freddie!

As for the club I don’t think there is anyone there with a deep understanding of football Edelman certainly doesn’t he is a retailer and has stepped into Dein’s football politics role, his stamp is all over the club trying to patent the term gooner and happily boasting the club has the highest ticket prices in world football. I think the club would struggle to replace Wenger or know who to approach.

vivb .. Feddie’s wage bill was expensive and his injuries had taken their toll on him
but he was a fukking winner .. he scored fukking goals .. unlike Hleb/Rosicky .. come on give me 10 Freddies in their prime over these two former Bundesliga 1/2 achievers!!
lets be realistic

agree to watever gooner85 said….if dein hadnt left, if we still wr in highbury, if henry had stayed….who knows we could have ended up just like last season…i bet we wud have…then ther wudnt have been any star striker signing but obviously we wud have needed it…

my point is….the move to a new stadium coupled with the squad transformation has hindered the progress…no doubt abt it…

Dein left the club over differences in opinion over the money that the club needs to pace itself in the competitive transfer market….but his approach to the problem was different…takeover…
wenger and others are taking a different approach for the same cause….make more money…and still nt sell away…..i am sure in the next season the urgency for a trophy wud be much much more with the manager than the fans….

and how close we r(or wer) this season…it hurts…but u know…it happens…(only if dudu wasnt injured)…
keep the faith…

having that £70m in the bank does not make us less at risk of a takeover it makes us more of a risk. someone like usmanov will be slobbering with delight if he can take over the club when it has that sort of cash in the bank because HE would take the cash. Remember he only needs to buy the shares, not the cash in the bank as well. If he gets overall control of the club via offering the exsiting shareholders what they want, then he can decide to take that £70m as dividends for his back pocket.

If we spend it then the money has gone into things like players/wages. that money cannot be re-couped directly. however, I happen to beleive a 15m investment in a good winger would have reaped benefits because I beleive thats all we needed to win the title or CL. if we win either of those two trophies, the prize and TV money you get would next season would more than pay for a 15m player. If Man u win either of them this season, then they have effectively paid for Anderson and Nani that they bought last summer.

As I say, even if we still had not won a trophy, 15m does not break the bank does it, especially when you know you have £100m coming from flat sales in August.

Gooner 85 the only debt being repaid soon is the loan for the apartment project and the 50 million bond which will all go by next year the balance is on a 25 year morgage at around 15 million a year which is easily obtained out of current revenue, ticket prices will never come down regardless.

Gazzap fatso could not get hold of the 70 million unless he paid off all the other debt, there are stict conditions made for the stadium loan. I agree with you a good winger plus Vela will help, our main problems is that the second tier are not good enogh to give first team players any kind of rest

i always find the comment “next season” this player will be better etc. The season ends in May and starts in August again. In those three months, traore, hoyte, djourou, bendtner, diaby, denilson, gilberto, eboue, song etc are not going to suddenly going to become top premiership quality players. ain’t gonna happen, it would be utter stupidity to think that the same squad with the above players playing only the odd games would be able to make that leap to winning the league.

we have seen improvements no doubt, but how big we don’t know yet. if we end up 12/15 points behind the champions which is i think is likely and go out against liverpool, then the progress isn’t that great. we would have done worse in the domestic cups with no final and even though we would have been involved in the championship race until march, it still isn’t good enough considering the resources the club have at their disposal.

the second lot are completely average, which is why wenger never plays them, unless forced to. not sure how any one can deny that, when you look at wenge’rs team selections this season. he is selling the fans an idea that even he doesn’t believe in and most are just lapping it up.

to be winners ,winning must become a habit !
thats what winners do ! ..

listening to the description of gooner85, its rather sickening the slant he has on our great club !

He would rather flit around never winning squat !
but marvel at soaring ticket prices and watching very average players, PLAY . wishing on a prayer that one day something MIGHT happen ! … Well all i can say is i hope you have taken your vitamins and plan on living a very long life ! With that attitude and watching all the other clubs this season making leaps and bounds you might fool yourself by thinking we are closer to the leaders this season , but look in the other direction .. lower clubs are gaining also ! …
Soon the playing field will even out and don’t think that other investors who can come in like these Russian billionaires that are coming out of the woodwork wont soon take over the fulham’s and wigan’s and make them power houses in 1 or 2 short seasons !

These plans had better work soon for arsene ,because your primeval thoughts of purist footballing days are gone ! Im sure we will get another club or 2 in the next season taken over by big investors !
None of you know what is around the corner so you just wait for eternity gooner85, or rather as you put it ‘they will be done in the most decent and beautiful ways possible’ whilst the romanov’s of this world will make the wigan’s of this world
top 4 contenders within 1 or 2 seasons ! ..

Time is running out !!!

The sooner a big investor comes in and gets these clowns out of their chairs the better ! Yes they are running it like a business , but remember its a football club , with fans , passionate fans who want there club to succeed ! Not say next season ! every season !..

Sure id go as far as to say we havent got any worse!
and considering alot of clubs have gotten better personnel this season , im sure that means we are still rising with the natural curve !
But if i was an investor i would buy a Birmingham or some other cellar EPL survivor as cheaply as i could and make them winners , providing there stadiums are big enough to begin with , pump in 100 millions worth of players and within a year or 2 theyll be up there with the best !

There is obviously money and fame in buying a football club .. you wouldn’t get 3 out of the top 4 clubs in the EPL taken over if it wasn’t ! So remember all you wenger purists that the clock is ticking ! this science lab experiment has taken 3 years and the results have been average !

If our board is standing strong in there NO sale policy , then the other clubs below us will be the natural choices for investors in the
VERY VERY NEAR FUTURE !!!

Dan you are right the second tier are just not good enough who would you rather have for the last 30 minutes Bentnder or Aneilka, Carrick or Denilson, Nani or Diably? thats our problem plus the fact that Senderos is good in the air but hopeless against speedy strikers, and we need to groom someone to give Cesc a rest.

Lets have a clear out sale Gilberto, Diably, Djouru, Traore and buy one or two established players who can adapt easily and be rotated.

all im saying is be careful what you wish for ..
because if our progress gets any slower than this
the chelsea’s and man U’s of this world plus all the others who aspire to greatness might screw up your plans royal and proper !!!

All your banter rely’s on us and the league getting no better or worse , next season ..

Im sure some potential investors who have seen others make a quid wont have the same delusional fixation as you arsenal fans who gooner85 describe as the latter …

ethan-

how can you say spurs have progressed when they trailed us by 1pt in 05-06, 8 pts in 06-07 and this year a whopping 28 pts already and its only march. In what fantasy world is that considered progress?

D

it so blindingly obvious that they are not good enough that i am amazed how many people fall for it. Look at the hype on vela already and how he is going to answer our problems (hopefully he will!!!) but let’s be serious he is 18, mexican, probably doesn’t speak a word of english, has played all of 50 games in his professional life, never played in the english game and yet he is being “sold” to us as our salvation and here on the blogs people are lapping it up. defies belief, as i have said before wenger is the best salesman in the world!!!

clearly under ramos spurs have improved. he is a serious manager who knows what he is doing, what he wants and most importantly is hungry for success. woodgate and hutton were good buys and i am sure he will spend boat loads this summer.

i think this is a load of knee jerk nonsense. we dont need a random billionaire to come along and mire us in debt. and man city and aston villa arent going to overtake us. and the world isnt going to end anytime in the near future. and id it is that easy to change a football club by having new owners, how come liverpool are still having a right old laugh when it comes to winning the league?

hear hear robgib

How is it clear they have progressed.

Spurs were out earlier in the FA Cup, the UEFA cup, and were recently drubbed by B’ham city….all under Ramos.

Ramos influence this year has been overhyped to extreme.

Dan you are right Ramos has improved spurs. they lost at Villa after a CC hangover but at the begining of the season they were in the bottom three and the results since Ramos has been there are obviuos, and if he spends wisely in the Summer they will eb a big threat to us especially if the can hold on to Berbatovr, and if he goes to Manu its even worse for us

Dan Vela has an english teacher and he has done well at Osasuna especially agisnt some of the big teams but he will take 3 months to settle in, but I would like to see come off the bench for the last 20 minutes soon after he arrives

Im sorry,

I’m not even going to sit here and pretend to be afraid of Tottenham.

Their results under Ramos are identical to their results under Jol last year, if not worse. Remember, only recently have they lost to Man City and Brum. In addition to Villa as stated above. I would not be suprised to see newcastle turn them over this weekend as well.

Not suprised at all.

if berbatov goes to manu then fergie can play 3 forwards all at once, and if he buys torres from liverpool for 100 million he can play 4. we need a rich russian quick so we can buy more forwards. otherwise we will be left behind and it will be all over and we will be relegated and that will be that.

we don’t need a billionare we have plenty of money, just someone not willing to spend it.

I have been reading lots of reactions in the last few days… I think robgib sums it up nicely.

f man u loses to A Villa and we beat bolton with 12 goals and chelsea draw, we will be back in full contention… we were once 5 pts clear, so anything can happen really.

All fans should back the team to the end, it is not over till we are mathematically out of it.

I don’t think you can underestimate Ramos, but we can also overestimate him. In Spain he never won the league, but he was very good at winning cup trohies. He did get pretty close to winning the league last season and gave Sevilla a berth in the CL.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect similar results with Spurs, so we’re going to have to take Spurs seriously.

least spurs had some glory , we will be remembered in the footballing halls of the 07-08 period as winners?
of nothing … and yes it has been a season of two 1/2s for spurs , but you must be kidding yourself if ramos wont buy players come the end of the season .. and out a few … But his methods are designed to win… and win in the near future …
you only have to look at his last appointments to see how this guy is a glory hunter !!!!

and robgib
liverpool aren’t any worse or better than last season , pretty much in the same boat as us dont you think ?! but one things for sure liverpool will be spending more next season because this will be disappointing for them ..

but us we have faith right ?

Oh Yogi, thanks for your excellent post, esp. the link to the O’Neill article.

2touch
Spurs drew ManU at home .. and lost 2-1 in the FA
we drew ManU at home and only lost 4-0 at OT

you can manipulate, deny, etc as much as you want

fact is Ramos has improved the squad very quickly and more to follow

I will reiterate my pont of view that we are bringing too many players through at the same time without giving them enough playing time

Diaby looks a good player .. so does Traore who is still very young btw

both must stay and should be given chances in their right positions or be released

but please upfront next season Vela/Nik/Theo .. how on earth is that gonna work for them??
we need to kick Hoyte and either Senderos or Djourou out .. then either play Denilson or lend him out ..

on top of this, we are likely to buy another crop of youngsters .. wtf the bloody fukk does this mean .. all of these boys will be starved for games

team spirit
its an admiral ’spirit you do possess , but here are the facts

man U have to loose 3 of there last 7 games ..
they have let in 5 goals at home ALL SEASON …
there goal difference as far as we are concerned is another point to make up ! making it a 7 point break we need to make up ! Chelsea have got 2 games to go V’s the top 4 AT HOME ! ..

Look at the fixures ahead ..
i think we need the English fan band to play the great escape at every game we play if you want to have some hope mate !

Aston villa have not got a result in there last 3 games ! 2 loses and a draw !

Man U will steam roll them !

“least spurs had some glory”

The Carling Cup. Wow. Yeah, I’ll never forget Middlesborough’s historic win in 04. Or Blackburn’s triumph against the Spuds in 02. We can only dream to be in their company.

Those will totally be remembered in the “footballing halls” over our win at San Siro, for years and years to come.

/snark

ethan, can u say Liverpool have not spent so far? or spurs for that matter?

The Liverpool example is given so u can see that it is not a guarantee that once u spend and have new owners, you will the league!

Our squad is fine and that is not just in support of AW. You cannot just assume that the players will not be fit. Clichy struggled for fitness for about 3 seasons, but eventually, seems to have settled down to being fit; he has hardly been out this season

to be honest ethan, i think we are in a much better position than liverpool. they have spent millions and achieved very little, fluke european cup win apart.

i honestly would prefer us to stay the way we are, play the football we play, not pay over the odds for star names, and not win the league every year, than become another club bought out by some foreigner with a questionable past.

thanks ny marcus !

im not saying spurs will win the EPL next season what im saying is there are a lot of teams wanting a piece of our action !

and if you dont think next season it will get tougher
then your only kidding yourself …

Im sure once the season ends we will here some take over rumors surface for other clubs.. and that will just up the ante !

that is what keeping the faith is about; am sure even u as objective as you like to think you are could never have predicted that we will go from being 5 points clear to 6 point behind?

Yes the results are not in our hands, but the last 11 points dropped by us to give man u the league top was not in their hands either.

we have drawn too many games end of.

BB-

Cant manipulate can only look at the points table, which never lies.

They are still Jekyll and Hyde. Just like last season.

Ramos has already bought a dud in their new right back Gilberto.

They were out earlier in the UEFA and FA cup. That is not “manipulation” that is a fact. Sorry.

2 touch your delusional ..

just pay for your 50 quid a head tickets and swing your scarf like a gaffa !

no other comment anyone will make will change your mind , cant win dont try ..

ethan-goon,

ad hominem much?

I dont like to compare Arsenal to other teams, especially teams like Spurs. if you are going to look at a blueprint for success look at Man u. they play good football and win trophies. they do so by buying established low risk players for big money.
I prefer wengers philosophy and I dont want some billionaire to buy the club. I dont have a problem with Arsenals business plan etc but I just think we should have bought a proper winger in the summer! I dont want to throw the baby out with the bath water because in reality we are almost there.

What insight!

“im not saying spurs will win the EPL next season what im saying is there are a lot of teams wanting a piece of our action !”

Other teams want to be where Arsenal is right now? Other teams outside of the top four would like to win the Prem? What a novel concept! I’d would never have thought that!

Thanks ethan

2touch .. lucky then that we didnt play ManU before Spurs .. btw we only lost 5-1 at WHL .. prob part of the progress report for the 07/08 season

spirit …

with ade fronting our strike force, it was always looking like it was a matter of when !
I would of had a glimmer of hope if we got 2 or 3 players in december .. I think it was needed ..

But lack of experience had let us down last season,
as well as squad depth to last the distance ..
it was pretty foreseeable really .. I just hoped we could win the easy games ..

I alway knew that teams like man U and chevski
have the sort of depth to really push it , come the end of season …..
i think if your honest with yourself we all knew like the pundits did the title race would be a tight one !
And its a shame to flop at such a pivotal point in the season .. We didnt score enough and thats the real reason for our demise !

BB-

eh….you do know it was the Carling Cup right? Let them have it. It gives our youngsters a good education, while allowing them to delude themselves into thinking they’ve progressed.

As much as it burns to lose to Spurs in any competition lets not pretend that the CC is something we’re “striving” to win.

Please.

You do know that we beat them twice in the league yes?

well said ethan and bb you will have a hard job to change some minds we all support the gooners and maybe some of us who offer good criticism support more than those with red and white specs I like to look at the inside page of my programme and see all our honours and don’t see any there for the past few seasons in the sixties and seventies after three bad years people stayed away and this caused the club to act (eg ars v leeds under 4000) but today with a waiting list of 100.000 waiting to get onto the red membership the club dont have to worry and it shows

Actually if we did play them we wouldve fared much better as we wouldnt have had the massive first leg against Milan in 3 days time.

BB

not only did we lose Vs spurs..
they went on and beat a chelsea FULL SQUAD in the C.C
and then at home scored 4 goals against them !
and almost one it !!!

then we goto chelsea and lose 2-1 ..

what does that tell you 2 touch ?

would appear that Wenger’s comment that the title race will go the wire doesnt apply to us any longer ..

We beat Chelsea at home 1-0. What does that tell you ethan?

This is what happens when you try to take a measure of a season with one game.

As far as our season is concerned it is undeniable that we have progressed and as far as the SEASON is concerned spuds have gone backwards.

Defend them all you like.

2touch .. you are right though on one thing .. a lot of clubs are looking up to and trying to emulate us
that means more competition in the future, rather than less and therefore more reasons to worry and more reasons to challenge Wenger’s dictatorial stance on everything at the club
we are not denying that he has done a fantastic job for us, but I feel strongly that we need another driver at the club .. not another bean counter
this is the season where we got hammered by 2 of our worst rivals .. that aint fukking progress.. whatever the fukking competition

2tuch .. so we have progressed as a team since the return games started??

i wasnt measuring it in one game ..
spurs beat us chelsea and then scored 4 goals at chevskis home strip .. Not too many clubs can boast that sort of fire power Vs chevski ! ..

You cant deny that spurs are getting better .
and that is the case with alot of other clubs ..
I have 2 spurs followers as friends .. and they never let me forget !

Im not defending anyone ! arsenal included .
if one of your children is naughty you administer punishment !

and what that tells me 2 touch is that we can beat top teams at the start of the season and go to water at the end of the season … ! but adversely at home we ’should’ win dont you think ?

2touch, no one will rememebr we did the double over them, and history will show they won something in 2007 -2008 something we didn’t do. stop being such a snob, a trophy is a trophy and is success either way. i certainly would rather have won the CC than win in milan if we don’t win the CL. it is that attitude that allows wenger to get away with winning nothing and saying but look at that great game we played. it is all about winning!!!!! when you lose sight of that you are only going down hill from there.

but i will say something 2touch

you are totally blinkered if you think spurs havent improved 100% recently ! I can see it on the pitch ,beratov and keane are a great partnership to watch in a footballing sense ! you obviously only watch arsenal games .. And are not a real lover of the game .. I understand your fragile !

But if you cannot see there improvement , your just
in denial or truly just an argumentative sod .

“you are right though on one thing .. a lot of clubs are looking up to and trying to emulate us
that means more competition in the future”

Which is no different from any other season since the inception of the football league, thus the earlier snark.

You can only play 11 players on the field on the time. All this hullabaloo about money and takeovers is just a distraction for the worrry-worts. Winning the football league will never be comfortable.

“2tuch .. so we have progressed as a team since the return games started??”

I would say yes. Look at the table and you’d have to agree.

etahn .. just one point to the whole Spurs saga.. I dont rate Keane and would not consider him AFC material .. I still agree that Spurs have progressed, but go along with gazzap .. its ManU that matters.. no the fukking losers from WHL

2touch .. yes but then Chelski brings on Anelka/Belletti and some other intl dikkhead from a major footballing nation.. football goes down the route of rugby union has gone..ie the bench matters more and more

well said dan !

To beat a team like chelsea in the C.C is something to boast about ..
Beating a 5-8th place italian club in series A isnt that great ! Going on there form !
They have been playing WELL BELOW par this season ..
Was a win really that FAR LEFT FIELD FOR YOU ?

Dont get me wrong it was a great win and the best weve played in some time .. But if your a facts man ! then consider AC have had a poor year .
and if they dont improve they wont get a birth in next years C.L !!!!!

thems the facts !!!

dan- did you remember bbn’s win in 02 or the boro win in 04 before a mentioned it? be honest.

The only reason it is a big deal this year is b/c SPURS have won it. That is all. Carling Cup is a fourth rate cup. Sucks to lose to spuds in any comepetition but some perspective is needed. Look at the clubs who’s best chance to win anything this year was the CC (NUFC, Blackburn) and you have to agree. Coventry beat ManU. Has Coventry progressed or has ManU regressed. Big Picture folks. Season long trends. If you can’t see it I can’ help you.

Ethan-

Berbatov and keane are as good as they were last year, too bad there results can’t keep up with their progress as a strike partnership.

You’ve just proved yourself wrong btw.

You say we need to buy using teams like spurs, city, and villa as an example, yet the most improved part of the spurs team is the partnership between keane and dimitar, the SAME pair they had last year. So are you saying we need to keep faith with who we have and see if they develop. Or we need to buy the “new darren bent”? Make up your mind

Done and done.

BB

neither would i (re :keane), but i think he supports berbatov pretty well ! and he can score ! can you really name a arsenal striker who is in form currently ???

i thought not !

also keane is 4th top scorer in the EPL berba is 6th
so the facts man should love those stats ..

“2touch .. yes but then Chelski brings on Anelka/Belletti and some other intl dikkhead from a major footballing nation.. football goes down the route of rugby union has gone..ie the bench matters more and more”

You conveniently leave out the fact that Sagna went down and their first goal shouldve been flagged offside for the buildup. Not making excuses but all of that factored into the final result.
Not just “the bench”.

This is what happens when you make a snap shot analysis of a game and/or season.

2touch,

the point about winning trophies even the minor ones is that build confidence, creates a winning mentality, etc. if we all agree that the team was too young and inexperianced to win the league this year then why not try and win something more feasible. besides this year in the FA cup, the domestic cups have been win exclusively by the top 4 teams, if it is big enough for the other 3 why not us. Utd and chelsea won tham whilst they were not the league, that kept the momentum going and was something to build on, so whilst man utd went three years without the league they were still picking up trophies and being seen as winners.

it is arrogant and niave for arsenal to say forget domestic cups,as we have bigger fish to fry, especially when you are not good enough to win the bigger fish.

“hey have been playing WELL BELOW par this season ..
Was a win really that FAR LEFT FIELD FOR YOU ?”

Are you saying you were 100 percent confident we would win at the San Siro?

Sol Gooner @11.15 this morning,

I refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer that I gave three days ago at 11.45am to another right honourable gentleman’s question that was curiously enough very closely related to the subject upon which you have enquired:

http://aculturedleftfoot.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/arsene-on-the-defensive-flamini-jens-can-solve-the-problem/

2 touch your delusional !

debate isnt even in question . spur’s form are
far better because of there manager !
they are fitter andhe’s given them belief
they always had reasonable players ..
just wait until ramos buys GREAT players ..

as for the done and done …
i think that goes back to my 1st blog warning to myself .. is cant win, dont try ..

with you !

yes mate we are doing well this season !
we are kicking ar$es and taking names .
we are beating all in front of us and i support
the fact that you’d rather win nothing and feel good that we are better than any other team in the EPL ! blah blah blah ..

you just look sad and ridiculous !
your doing my head in !
with your sort of retarded-ness

and berbatov and keane both didn’t appear in the top 10 scorers last season ! So how you think they are just the same as last season only adds to your deludedness !

deludedness ! ??? :)

ethan .. the facts man will reply that ugly Ade stands above them in the EPL goal standings .. beware
2touch .. with respect to the bench, we have not won in 5 games .. that is not a one off any longer .. is it?? worst form in 9 years if I read correctly .. not that I pay that much attention to stats
Sagna has all of a sudden become the crucial man.. now Drogba was a thorn in our ass all day .. Chelski played the long balls all game and we struggled .. what happened then was that Anelka came on and all of a sudden, we play 2 against 2 at the back and that was the end .. I didnt understand why Wenger did not bring Gilberto on to cover at the back .. rather than bring Diaby on and stick the girafe on the left wing ..

two, you can analyse decisons and injuries until kingdom come, over the course of the year you are either good enough or not and this year we are not. don’t kid yourself why are you arguing that the team bringing on anelka is not stronger than the team bringing on bendtner, of course the bench is more important. in reference to our main rivals, they don’t have a “bench” they have 18 to 20 top quality players that can all play at anytime without dramatically changing the quality of the team. we have 12 and there is the issue which if not addressed this summer will ensure more bare years to come. (unless wenger decides to try and in the domestic cups)

dan-

If winning the CC would’ve given us some belief where have Boro and Blackburn gone?

They were outside the top four and they have one it in the last 6 years.

This conversation was sparked because ethan says that Tottenham are progressing. But that’s like saying liverpool are progressing when they’ve pretty much stagnated for the past 5 yrs.

In that time they’ve won the european cup. What cup doesn’t breed more belief than that one.

*one=won

i will say the players were … confident 2 touch…
I will say i was reminded of the facts i presented to you .. by bloggers here .
(that ac have had a crap season).
I know we seem to preform better in the C.L … And i have my own theories on that ..
and they are to do with concentration .. and arsene’s lust to win as a priority …

but whats the point in talking to you ..
i mean really ?

Like I said, Chelsea is an anomaly. Nobody can compete with them financially.

But Dan, if you give the young players waiting in the wings a chance, they will mature and you’ll end up with a squad of excellent players on the cheap, not just a good first team. And by that I mean, appearances in the Carling Cup and FA Cup for the inexperienced.

All our best players (Except Gallas) have improved at Arsenal under Wenger’s tutelage.

He has always bought rough diamonds. It’s a proven method. Long may it continue, because we’re starting to see what it means to have a squad of players growing up together.

I mention that berba and keane had indeed improved over last season. I also wrote that their teams results have not matched that improvement, thus spurs have not improved what are you fling off the handle about

Also, respond to this big spender ethan “Berbatov and keane are as good as they were last year, too bad there results can’t keep up with their progress as a strike partnership.

You’ve just proved yourself wrong btw.

You say we need to buy using teams like spurs, city, and villa as an example, yet the most improved part of the spurs team is the partnership between keane and dimitar, the SAME pair they had last year. So are you saying we need to keep faith with who we have and see if they develop. Or we need to buy the “new darren bent”? Make up your mind”

BB we have not won in 8 games !!!
and if we draw Vs bolton or worse it will officially be the worst spell under wengers reign !
so 2 touch and the rest who stay quiet should look heavily on that stat before you say we have progressed ! and people like spurs havent !

It all great being ahead in the middle of the season but they don’t give out awards for that !!!

yes BB ade is above them in all stats , lost possession (id say he’s the league leader in that stat !@) off sides , failure of passing %ages :)

mind you id say assists you can safely say he wont win :)

two,

not sure the blackburn / boro point is of any relevance. we are in the top 4 teams in england they are crappy little teams who peak at winning the CC.

for us to win the CC like the other top 4 would as i said keep the winning mentality going (in our case starting as this “new” team have won nothing yet). as for spurs as much as i hate them i think it would be naive to say they have not improved greatly since ramos has been there, which has been highlighted by the fact they tonked us (in comparison to last year) and then went on to be beat a full strength chelsea to win their first trophy for 8 years. it wasn’t a fluke they deserved to win it.

big al .. u got no fukking brain .. weare NOT giving our young players a chance by playing them 5 games a season .. how many games have Denilson/Traore and co played this year? And have they progressed?
Please tell me .. you are a fukking joke.. and the likes of TH14/PV4 and Bobby were not rough diamonds when they were bought .. and Cesc played every game and we let PV4 go so that he could get games .. these are the facts
big al .. you are deluding yourself .. stop the mushrooms

“not sure the blackburn / boro point is of any relevance. we are in the top 4 teams in england they are crappy little teams who peak at winning the CC.”

This is exactly the point im trying to argue with ethan when he says that “at least spurs have had some glory” and that spurs have improved. A crappy little team who peaks while winning the CC is exactly what spurs are. The table, even if you only look at their most recent results arent that diffferent from last year. Tanked by Brum, loss to city, a draw and a couple wins. They wanted the CC off a flukey woodgate goal because they cared about it most.

Dan you and I are realists and able to admit that Spurs have improved, and they have had some good buys like Berbatov, Hutton etc. as well as some rubbish. But if we dont strengthen the squad to have at least 16 top players not 12 we are not going anywhere.. Sagna. EDS, Flamini, and Song were our only positives this season, pairing Hotye and Traore together showed how bad the second string were, and Almunia whilst OK is not as good as Jens when he wasin his prime, not being able to rest Cesc has affected his second half season and the Euro cup means hell have very little rest time. Wengerspin cant go on forever

2touch .. when Spurs will play Chelski next season, the CC final will be in everybody’s minds .. dont you worry .. whilst in their mind will be we came back at the Arse in the last 20 mins by playing their usual shiit football.. and Drogba doing the rest .. guess who will have the psychological advantage .. unless Drogba leaves of course

How have spurs improved? Look at their points total in comparison to last year.

It is less than last year. Even if you only count their recent form, it is identical to last year.

That is not progress.

That is stagnation.

But carry on sing the praises of the spuds all you like.

al

“He has always bought rough diamonds. It’s a proven method.”

not neccessarily for winning anything!!!

firstly the youngsters route only started a few years ago when he had no cash and i don’t think we can say it has been successful in terms of trophies yet as we have won nothing with them.

our championship teams and squads for that matter were all full of experianced top quality international players with a sprinking of young promising players.

he has brought great young players who developed with more experianced players by there side, but not on mass which we are now seeing.

playing in 8 to 10 cup games a year will firstly not get the experiance they need (only clichy and cesc played every week and they are the most successful recent young players to come through) and secondly make it that much less likely that the club will ever win anything.

no 2touch .. we strive to become ManU/Barca/Real and so on and so forth .. at 50 to 70 quid a ticket, that is not 2 much to ask for really, is it??

i couldnt care less about the kunts from WHL unless they beat us 5-1 .. then I get fukking fukking angry

BB

I believe you have lost the plot mate. I have no idea what you are on about.

This convo started because ethan mention that we should be afraid of a rampant and improving spurs when no one can prove that they have in fact improved.

BB - I’m not going to respond to the personal stuff - not sure how that was necessary. But I’ll reply to the bits I can understand.

Traore hasn’t looked like progressing much this season, but he’s still young. Denilson’s been injured for a lot of it and hasn’t had much of a look in. Doesn’t prove anything.

Look what happened when we bought a player to sit on the bench and aspire to a first team place - Diarra left aft