Guest Post: Overseas TV Rights

Guest post time with Marcus taking up the reigns on TV Rights:

Much as been said over the last week about the Premier League’s 39th Game proposal.  In the PL’s official press release, Richard Scudamore refers repeatedly to the PL’s global appeal: 

We are proud the Barclays Premiere League is viewed as the strongest domestic football competition in the world by fans at home and abroad…  The ‘international round’ is an exciting and innovative proposal… [T]his concept recognizes the truly global appeal of the Barclays Premiere League…  We believe that an ‘international round’ of matches will enhance the strength of the Barclays Premier League as a competition; create extra interest in all 20 Premier League Clubs at home and abroad…

Apparently, WE are the object of Scudamore’s greedy affections:  PL fans outside the UK (I live in Brooklyn , NY ).

A few weeks before this announcement, the Arsenal TV channel was launched on Setanta Sports.  In the UK , that channel is carried by Sky.  In the months leading up to the channel’s launch, gooners who subscribe to the Virgin Media platform in England were led to believe that they too would have access to the channel.  This expectation proved false. 

Goonerholic has been working excellently on this issue on behalf of Virgin Media subscribers.  You can see his relevant postings (and reader comments) here: 

Arsenal TV Offline. It’s A Bloody Shambles!
Robin Or Arsenal TV On Virgin. Who Will Appear First?
I’m Sorry, I’ll Say That Again
City Preview, Loan Moves, And TV Restrictions,

But what about we gooners outside the UK ? Here in North America, football fans rely mainly on 3 channels for regular matches in Europe :  the Canada-based Fox Soccer Channel, the Hispanic-owned GolTV and Setanta Sports. 

The first two are available as part of a sports package.  Setanta Sports, however, is only available separately, with an additional charge of $15 per month, a hefty addition to an already expensive monthly cable or satellite bill.  Until last Fall, Setanta North America aired a weekly 3-hour show called Arsenal TV, which was repeated 3 times each week.  This show aired a full-length repeat of the latest Arsenal match, an occasional player interview, and an edited version of a classic match. 

Setanta North America also airs two other weekly PL club channels:  Chelsea TV and Manchester United TV.  Some months ago, Setanta abruptly canceled Arsenal TV.  The other two channels remain.

After he posted about the “shambles” that Virgin Media had made of the Arsenal TV situation in England , Goonerholic started to receive e-mails from gooners outside the UK who subscribe to the Setanta platform, principally Australia and Ireland .  Like them, I and several of my fellow gooners here in the US had been hearing about the launch of the new channel for months on Setanta.  We naturally expected that as subscribers, we would have access to the channel.  We assumed that Setanta had canceled the previous version of Arsenal TV in preparation for this updated official club channel. This turned out not to be true. 

One Australian explained that he had e-mailed Setanta Australia and received a reply that unearthed a Premiere League rule that no one knew existed.  Goonerholic received official confirmation of the rule,

Thank you for your email and we do apologise for the delay in responding.  There are a number of restrictions around club programming.  If Setanta only have one channel in Australia (which they do) then they are only entitled to carry two club programming blocks in this case Liverpool and Chelsea .  We do apologise for any inconvenience this has caused but thank you for your support of the Premier League

For my part, I called the offices of Setanta North America and all I got was

we do not have the right to schedule that program and at the moment the situation will not change

As Goonerholic said: 

What can be gained by preventing potential fans of your product from watching what you should be able to offer? Is this insane rule also preventing Gooners in the USA and Far East from getting the new channel for the same reason?  It seems to me they need some lessons in marketing basics…

These are the same people all fired up to distort the league competition by hauling entire PL teams across the globe for competitive games and yet they can’t provide the most basic TV access to the league’s top club channels because of some nonsensical rule that has no logic whatsoever.

In reaction to the discovery of this rule, another Arsenal blog that is also campaigning against the 39th game has launched a petition to open up the overseas market to more club channels.

But it is not only marketing lessons that the PL suits need.  They also need a few lessons in basic planning.  In all the media and fan furor over the proposal, I’ve seen little attention paid to one salient fact.  The only pundit I saw who referred to it soon after the announcement was released was Bobby McMahon, resident analyst of the Fox Soccer Channel.  McMahon brings up the fact that the PL thoroughly ignored FIFA’s and UEFA’s opinion on the matter but, more importantly, that of local football authorities,

How many associations are going to willingly accept the Premiership juggernaut rolling into town, giving prominence to conflicting sponsors, taking attention away from the domestic league and then leaving a few days later with a suitcase of cash that wasn’t spend on supporting the local product?

Already, the Asian and Australian football federations have expressed opposition.  Some pundits said that only the Americans would be favorable.  However, the president of the US Soccer Federation, Sunil Gulati has had this to say We’ve been reluctant to have official games played in the US and we’ll be guided by Fifa. But if it’s not in line with their rules then we won’t sanction it. We understand it’s a global sport, but it’s about nurturing the home game

On the nightly Fox Soccer Report, McMahon also mentioned that cities will bid to host these PL games.  He asked if the local football federations will allow this kind of direct bidding process between cities and the PL, effectively bypassing their regional authority over the game.

A word here to American and other non-UK gooners who favor this proposal.  I understand that you’d love to see  Arsenal play a competitive match in person without traveling to England.  But supporting Arsenal or any football club is not like being a fan of a film or TV show.  Supporting a football club means sometimes having to sacrifice your own personal desires in favor of the health and integrity of the team and the competition.  American sports fans long ago gave up their right to oppose anything that happens with their games. 

By contrast, while English fans have conceded much of their sport to the rapacious mandarins who run it, they still maintain a level of organization and participation that American fans simply do not.  US fans do not have the type of English and European football supporter federations who meet with authorities like UEFA and club officials.  This deserves respect.  English fans are trying to hold onto some semblance of their sport before they lose it completely.  They’ve seen it chipped away bit by bit and they are rightly afraid that this will set a precedent for further erosion into the integrity of their competition. 

That is something I think many of us outside the UK forget:  just because we can watch the PL on TV does not make it ours.  We forget that we are watching a competition deeply rooted in another country’s history, traditions and culture.  It belongs to the English in a way that it never will belong to us; no matter how much we embrace it.  They are already pretty tolerant, even welcoming, of foreign fans who support their game.  I think we should respect their wish to at least try to maintain some measure of integrity of their sport rather than trod all over it just so we can see Cesc Fabregas play in person. 

The PL contest is simple, clear and as fair as possible.  Each team plays the other on each other’s home ground, all in the same country.  The immigrant fans I know here in NYC from Latin countries who follow their own domestic leagues are just as appalled by the idea.  They all say they would never accept such a proposal for their own leagues. 

Finally, there has been some confusion as to Arsene’s position on this proposal.  The confusion can be seen in the following contradictory headlines: 

“Wenger has overseas doubt” / “Wenger worried about motives for games abroad” / “Wenger backs overseas matches” / “Wenger open to international idea” / “Wenger calls overseas games a circus”

The problem is that Arsene’s reaction to the idea was far too nuanced for the press.  I urge you to listen to the relevant interview and press conference on the official website where he talked at length about the idea to get a clearer grasp of his views on the matter.

Posted on February 14, 2008, in Arsenal, Football, Football In The Dock, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer. Bookmark the permalink. 54 Comments.

  1. I think I’d rather have a sports channel ANY sports channel that will show more than ten Arsenal live games a season than Arsenal coming over ONCE. I live in Asia, and Star Sports plays BPL games sporadically. I’m so deprived that I’d certainly play extra money for an Arsenal channel. Doubt it’s ever going to happen though. 😥

  2. Excellent post. Well written and to the point.

    I’m a non-English gooner myself and I strongly oppose the 39th round-proposal. I’m lucky enough to live pretty close to the British shores, hence opportunities to actually get to see the Gunners play live is, while expensive, a mere two hour flight away. How good to see other fans abroad with less chance to go to the Emirates have the integrity to oppose the proposal.

  3. A good post, well done. I’m a UK season ticket holder, and I haven’t had a problem with the proposition. My initial reaction is always to rally against fans who come out with the old fashioned nonsense, “It doesn’t belong to the working class any more” blah blah. There’s always the view that the club “belongs” to someone. The club doesn’t belong to anyone, any particular group, it belongs to every fan out there, any one that wants to support Arsenal. Ever since I was a child, I wanted more and more people to support the same team as me, proud when I saw other kids in the playground with an Arsenal shirt. And I’m proud if on holiday, I see a kid wearing an Arsenal shirt. The view that it has to belong to a bunch of coal miners working around Highbury and Islington is bollocks.

    Then the other angle is “it’s all about money”. Yes well it is somewhat about money, a fact fans accepted decades ago. All Arsenal fans take great pride in the way the club is financially run, just look at the blogs talking about we’re the second richest and what-not, for better or worse, the wealth of your club is important and it is another part of the game, and something you can also be proud of, it’s like a member of your family getting a good pay rise. There’s nothing wrong with the club trying to earn more money, and there’s nothing wrong with the EPL trying to maintain it’s position as the number 1 league in the world. Would they rather watch the dutch league, where players leave for another country the minute they show any signs of talent?

    So I don’t have a problem with the idea of playing a game abroad, I just want to ensure they come up with a fair system for doing it obviously.

    Finally with regards to tv, I’d urge anyone struggling to watch games to look on the Internet, the games are usually out there if you look hard enough, I’ve watched three games that way already this season, good coverage, Sky commentary.

  4. I live in India but not in Delhi or Mumbai where probably, the game would be played if hosted in India. I can tell you that one wont have a chance in hell of getting a ticket for the event unless well connected and the costs would be astronomical – affordable by only the elite few. These same people are the ones who wont worry about (the costs) flying to see the game in the UK.

    I think Scudamore’s idea is stupid and highly detrimental to the English game. His plan will benefit the elite few in Hongkong, China, India etc – our equivalent of the prawn sandwich brigade.

    I am passionate Arsenal supporter and watching a game at the Emirates is a dream I have. For now, all I ask for is a chance to see every Arsenal game on TV – which I would willingly pay extra for. At the moment, ESPN/Star has the rights to the EPL in India but only 2 of the top 4 are normally shown over the weekend.

  5. Just a couple of factual corrections.

    Gol TV aired Arsenal TV last year not Setanta.

    FSC is a channel based in LA not Canada. FSC buys a nightly one hour show produced in canada that is just about the silliest soccer news show this side of 1974.

  6. Hboy

    I have been supporting The Arsenal for a good 38 years and have seen The Arsenal play maybe 5 times competitively in London live and in person. All boils down to time and cost. I have seen them as many times as they have come to the Far East but it is always off season playing exhibition games with nothing but pride at stake.
    So for selfish reasons and not so selfish reasons I do not mind The Arsenal coming to any where within 3 to 4 hours flying time to watch Arsenal play a competitive game. I am sure thousands of Arsenal fans in Asia and around the world feels the same way.
    I frankly do not care if it is about the money and I am made to pay 300 pounds to watch the game in Singapore. It is still cheaper than me flying down to London to watch the Arsenal.
    Le Bob you talk about integrity, what about the integrity? ie you having the priviledge to watch The Arsenal at your whim and fancy and you begrudge us one game in a few seasons(I am sure they will not play every 39th game in Asia).

    All of those who protest are the ones who are able to watch the games easily but plse note I am no less a fan and have been supporting The Arsenal through thick and thin years.

    As far as I am concern Scudamore is a far sighted genius.

    Up The Arse!!!!

  7. Thank you for your email and we do apologise for the delay in responding. There are a number of restrictions around club programming. If Setanta only have one channel in Australia (which they do) then they are only entitled to carry two club programming blocks in this case Liverpool and Chelsea . We do apologise for any inconvenience this has caused but thank you for your support of the Premier League.

    Im an ex pat living in Gambia W Africa.
    The most prolific carrier of EPL teams chaneels here is JSC.They have three channels but only two of them ever show any programms but because technically they still have three chanels they can show many of the EPL club chanels.

    If Setanta really wanted to broadcast Arsenal TV in other areas of the world they could solve the problem the same way.

  8. Fantastic post, loved it. Im an overseas Arsenal fan who has only had the priviledge of watching Arsenal play once – in the Emirates cup this summer against PSG.

    I understand that it is exactly that for me: a ‘priviledge’ – not a right. Im dismayed about some overseas fans who argue it is a right for them to be able to watch the teams they love.

    Excellent post by Daokta, too – what are the chances of Arsenal actually coming to your city to play? And how much would tickets actually cost? No doubt prices would be ridiculous – those able and willing to pay would be those who would be able to fly out to the Emirates and watch a game. And thats all there is – one game. Arsenal wouldn’t come to your city week in week out, or even year in year out. Selfishly speaking, that is not enough inccentive for me to accept the distortion of the league system and a whoring out of the league.

  9. Essex Co., New Jersey here. I think the rule, and I’ve known it since ArsenalTV disappeared from GolTV, is that any broadcasting entity has the right to two football club channels at a time. GolTV showed not only ArseTV but Liverpool TV as well, and they both disappeared at the same time. Coincidentally, Setanta then picked up the rights to ManU TV and Chelsea TV. I wonder if GolTV, a totally separate broadcasting entity from Setanta, licensed those rights from Setanta.

  10. As an overseas fan, I also had the privilege of attending 20 games or so at Highbury and away when I worked in London for a few months. I have yet to see the Emirates in real life and would love to have a chance to go.

    I think part of the experience of watching an Arsenal game is to be at their home stadium with the fans or at an away stadium with some hardcore fans. If done abroad, the hardcore fans will probably not spend the time and money to go half way around the world to Singapore or South Africa for a game! That would diminish the whole ‘experience’ of attending an Arsenal game.

    I am also lucky to have seen every single Arsenal game the past two seasons live on TV. Here in the Middle East, we get almost every premiership game live through Showtime Arabia, and I mean EVERY game, even the Sunderland Wigan type of games.

    For the CL, its on ART Sport, the Cups are on Jazeera Sport … and so on.

    We basically get English, Spanish, Italian, French, German, Dutch, Portuguese, Brazilian, and Argentian leagues along with most cups involved.

    The ironic thing is that when Im traveling to Europe, or London to be precise, it is much more difficult to watch games!

    Basically my point is, if it can be done here in the Middle East, it should be easily done anywhere else in the world!

    As a reference to what games are shown on what tv channel, goalzz.com is a great source.

  11. A point about ‘Just the rich will get to watch them’. In this country and everywhere else in Europe the fans of opposing teams are segregated, and I would have thought that that would be the case for these overseas games. This would lead to tickets being allocated to supporters clubs for a fair proportion of the tickets, so if you were a member of one of the local supporters clubs then it would probably be put into a lottery for match tickets. With all this stuff thought and time needs to go into it.

  12. YW, sorry Im posting this again but it was under moderation bcz I put two links I thinks.

    ————

    As an overseas fan, I also had the privilege of attending 20 games or so at Highbury and away when I worked in London for a few months. I have yet to see the Emirates in real life and would love to have a chance to go.

    I think part of the experience of watching an Arsenal game is to be at their home stadium with the fans or at an away stadium with some hardcore fans. If done abroad, the hardcore fans will probably not spend the time and money to go half way around the world to Singapore or South Africa for a game! That would diminish the whole ‘experience’ of attending an Arsenal game.

    I am also lucky to have seen every single Arsenal game the past two seasons live on TV. Here in the Middle East, we get almost every premiership game live through Showtime Arabia, and I mean EVERY game, even the Sunderland Wigan type of games.

    For the CL, its on ART Sport, the Cups are on Jazeera Sport … and so on.

    We basically get English, Spanish, Italian, French, German, Dutch, Portuguese, Brazilian, and Argentian leagues along with most cups involved.

    The ironic thing is that when Im traveling to Europe, or London to be precise, it is much more difficult to watch games!

    Basically my point is, if it can be done here in the Middle East, it should be easily done anywhere else in the world!

    As a reference to what games are shown on what tv channel, goalzz.com is a great source.

  13. Flint McCullough

    Excellent & enlightening post, Marcus.

    I have very rarely missed a home game in 50 years & have been a season ticket holder for over 40.

    Like Hboy, I am delighted that Arsenal have so many fans both locally & from all around the world.

    The club is a business & it is the fans that put the real emotion into it. That is the value that the local fans have set up for the foreign supporters to enjoy.

    There is absolutely no objection from me for Arsenal to play competitive football anywhere, before the start or after the end of the league season. The basic fact is that the regular attender at the Emerates is paying far more than a tv subscription to watch Arsenal & deserves to see the players in the finest condition possible & not tired by travel exertions.

    The 39th game is ‘tinpot’ & destroys the integrity of the League. I don’t think it is ‘Luddite’ to express that. I really think that anyone supporting that idea has no real feeling for the game at all.

    What I could see as a workable proposal would be:
    PL teams opt out of the Carling Cup
    Play league games on CC dates to bring forward the end of the season.
    Have a qualifying round, played abroad to eliminate 4 teams from the 12 or so, who didn’t play in the CL or Uefa cup.
    The remaining 8 teams would be joined in a FA cup style draw by the 8 European playing teams.
    Then knockout until the final.
    All games to be played, after the end of the season, either in 1 area World Cup style or anywhere you like.
    Call it the Premier League Cup & have real incentives, like the 4th CL or Uefa places, to make it worth winning.

    That would not distort the league, the major teams would be playing no more games than a in a succesful CC campaign, & there would be more chance of our overseas friends seeing a game.

  14. Is it right for them to take the rest of the world’s players and the rest of the world’s TV money (overseas broadcasting rights revenue will surpass domestic rights revenue in the next TV deal) and then act xenophobic. I am NOT in favor of the plan (at least as it stands now with a 39th game) but I think the provincialism espoused by a number of English fans is ugly. If they were so desperate to hold on to the game then they would’ve fought against the signing of so many foreigners years ago. They want to watch the rest of the world’s players but they don’t want the rest of the world’s fans to watch. You can’t take the biggest money and the best players from the rest of the world and then say “This is ours… because we invented the game.” Or “You’re good enough to fund our clubs to be able to buy your country’s best players but you’re only good enough to watch the game on TV.” Obviously a 39th game won’t work but I would still be open to the idea if it could be done without risking the integrity of the schedule and the game. Even a committment to team’s playing friendlies in VERY late July with their FIRST TEAMS would be more than satisfying.

  15. Q

    I have just watch An Arsenal game on TV at the official Arsenal Fan Club in Singapore 2 weeks ago. There are 300 official members and growing but the atmosphere was fantastic not as good at Highbury the last I was there but we can chant the usual chants and in fact we Asians can be as lively when football is involved. So you may have discounted the atmosphere or possible atmosphere prematurely. As it has not been tried out how can you judge?.

    The usual number of games will still be played in England so Arsenal fans in country do not lose out and throw a bone to us poor Asians to watch a meaningful competitive EPL game. I know there are obstacles but it can be planned to be smoothened out like having all the games in the same climate and even country. Drawing bottom and top half equally to prevent any distortions of results. And this way I bet you the fan base for all clubs will grow and you will get your atmosphere and it ,may feel like Emirates except for the tempreture.

    Up The Arse!!!

  16. BTW on monies and cost of watching an premiership game. The average cost is 38 to 45 pounds per ticket that translate to 90 Singapore dollars. I think the premiership have alraedy priced themselves out of the lower middle class and poor.

  17. I wrote the article with the petition on the other Arsenal blog you refer to.
    That blog is called InsideArsenal and your readers may be interested in the follow up article which can be viewed here: http://www.insidearsenal.co.uk/?p=1227

    Opposition is increasing, and I do believe that removing the restriction on Club channels abroad will give the Premier league an opportunity to climb down in my view… so the more signatures the better please.

    Fabregas the King.

  18. Thanks for all the terrific comments.

    Charlie, I stand corrected about FSC being LA-based. However, I have some old printouts of Setanta’s schedules from last year and they clearly show weekly airings of Arsenal TV. GolTV does not air any games from England and hasn’t at least since I started to subscribe.

    I neglected to mention that the Arsenal blog (Inside Arsenal) that has set up a petition to open up the overseas market to more than two PL club channels discovered that the rather complicated reasoning behind it has to do with the PL’s take on EU anti-trust issues:

    http://www.insidearsenal.co.uk/?p=1226

    “The FAPL is bound by legal undertakings given in response to the concerns raised over it’s collective packages of TV broadcasting rights by the European Commission. The antitrust action required that the broadcasters do not act in a way as to create anti competitive monopolies.

    The rules states:

    10.3 In addition, the Club rights referred to in paragraph 10.2 cannot be sold in such a way as to allow a user to produce a product which runs counter to the interests of the FAPL or the holders of the centrally-marketed Packages through the production of a bundled product or which otherwise undermines the benefits of central branding and/or marketing. Therefore, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing:
    10.3.1 no more than two (2) Clubs may sell to the same broadcaster their home match out of any full fixture programme of ten (10) Premier League Matches;”

  19. Flint

    I want to see your point of view but moving from 38 to 39 games if the bottom half plays the top half in a region of similar climate at the same time. All teams have equal preparation time and plays under similar conditions. How does the results get distorted?

    Pray tell.

    Up The Arse?

  20. Great post and all too true. As a Londoner living in California I have a very hard time with getting games. Firstly I have cable and Setanta doesn’t have an agreement with Comcast (my cable provider) to screen the Setanta channel, so I wasn’t even aware of the Arse TV channel being available (even if only for a while).

    I hate the idea of the 39th game, it’s the stupidest idea I’ve yet heard and is just a way of Scuda raping the game some more. Already the calendar is overloaded with differing competitions and if you look at the rise in number of injuries it’s clear to see a correlation. The problem is money, too much ****ing money. The PL has recognised that we stupid fans will do almost anything to watch our teams play; on TV, in person or whatever. The clubs have to take some blame in this too (I can’t see the club interviews as I refuse to subscribe to PAY to watch soundbites), but in the end it’s all down to the upwards spiral in the level of money available.

    This move is (if you think about it from a logical perspective) inevitable. When well over 50% of a big clubs fans are not resident, then globalisation of the game will doubtless follow. I sincerely hope that the supporters associations manage to stop this stupidity but the fact is that without the shirt sales, TV subscriptions and other revenue generation that comes from offshore none of the really big clubs could afford to pay the wages/cost/expense of the modern game.

    Here’s hoping common sense prevails and that the ENGLISH Premier League, stays that way. Otherwise where’s the point of calling it EPL? All the big series will start to compete for global space in the quest to pay over inflated wages, transfers and the such……..how long until La Liga or Serie A announce the same “initiative”?

  21. Flint McCullough

    Because it would no longer be a genuine league competition. It is an unnecessary distortion of a tradition that most of us value.

    We won the league in 1989 on goals scored, & in 1953 on goal average. The final games of those 2 seasons were huge. Imagine if those 2 seasons had been distorted by a wildcard draw.

    It is the English football league, played in England for 100+ years. Arsenal built a new stadium because the people who use it make them their main profit. The cheapest season ticket is around £1000. Everything else is a significant add on, but only that. The club would not survive on tv money alone. It would have no heart.

    The people I talk to, bar none, are against this idea & many see this as a big step too far. So much so that the protest will be dangerously significant to attendances. There is real anger.

    Poor attendances prove that The FA Cup has lost its real charm, because of poor decisions (eg Man Utd opting out). The PL can easily go the same way.

    Sorry if that sounds xenophopic, it is not intended as such, but I see it as a statement of fact.

  22. I’m a non-English Gunner too, live in Denver, and have been lucky enough to watch most of Arsenal’s games this season on Fox Soccer Channel. I think this idea about playing a regular season game outside of the country is silly in the extreme. I don’t feel like the PL needs to “showcase” itself overseas. In the US the NFL and NHL have played games overseas in a bid to attract more supporters. I don’t think the PL needs to do the same. There is already broad, planet-wide support as evidenced by the posters on this blog. MalaysianGunner does make a good point about support for this idea being related to the ease of watching games on tv but I firmly believe YW’s point about sacrificing your own personal desires for the well-being of the team. In an already overcongested schedule I see no value in playing out of the country. Personally speaking, Denver might be a likely destination for Arsenal given Kroenke’s relationship with them, but I doubt he would be in favor of having a game played here when he could make more money in bigger cities. I don’t think Arsenal would sell out our big sports stadium and they would never play at the so greatly named “Dick’s Sporting Goods Park,” it’s too small. I would love to see a pre-season game or an exhibition out of season but not during the season. You all saw how much Everton whined about the food poisoning that “knocked” them out of fourth place last year…imagine the imbroglio that would ensue if some team’s plane was delayed due to weather and they had to play a meaningful game whilst severely jet-lagged and tired. No sir, its the EPL and should be played in England.

  23. arsenal tv was on Goltv in the US, btw, not Setanta.

  24. Flint,

    Playing the CC abroad is a great idea actually. Only problem is that teams from the lower divisions wouldn’t able to participate.

    Does have the makings of a good compromise though?

    Daokta-agreed. Aside from the US, no one from the working and lower classes will be able to afford tickets anyway.

  25. Twotouchmiracle,

    Even in the US, the tickets would end up being doled out to corporate sponsors and the left over tickets would be more than working and lower economic classes would be able to afford. IMO this decision is all about the money, whether from ticket sales or merchandise. Being an American Gooner, it would be nice to see Arsenal play in person somewhere in the US, but I don’t see it happening because the ticket prices would be too high.

    Furthermore, I agree with earlier sentiments that it would not benefit any of the clubs who are competing for the title, or even a place in Europe, to potentially have their chances decreased by adding one more match for the sake of making a relatively small amount of money.

    I was fortunate enough to see Arsenal kick the crap out of Fulham at Craven Cottage a few years back. That was my only chance to see them play live and in person, so far. I would rather watch them play on TV from Ashburton Grove, Old Trafford or even Ewood Park, than on TV from the Home Depot Center or Giant Stadium.

  26. Flint McCullough

    The idea would be that the
    CC would become a competion for Championship- League 2 clubs, leading to a Wembley final.

  27. Great article Marcus.
    ——-
    As a Gunner in AZ-USA

    I still don’t understand why any English local game (CC, FA, PL) would be played outside of the UK?

    When I started supporting Arsenal, I knew I’m supporting a club overseas and the chances of seeing them play in person will be slim and far in between. What exactly the point (Beside money for club or PL) of seeing my club once maybe every 10 years if I’m lucky. If I want to see a game, it would be a nice trip to the UK, I think it would be better if they make it easier for fans to travel.

    We can talk about anything & everything….but I personally believe it’s all about money…how much money we can squeeze out of every single fan we can get our hands on. This what TV networks wants, PL, and every one involved…and as a result, only the fans gets hurt…no one else.

    My cable bill is $125/m including high-speed internet which is not bad, but how much more can I pay to watch my team, at some point as a reasonable person I will have to say that’s it, I can’t afford to pay any more.

    The comment about only the rich will be able to watch is true, maybe not now but eventually it will be.

    G4E

  28. Natsteel,

    I think you are a little shortsighted to say that we TAKE all of the best players from the rest of the world.

    i think you will find that they are paid extremely handsomely to come and play for English teams!

    You will also see that the majority of the clubs turnover is from us season ticket holders, so yes, we do have a right to expect to see our team, in our home stadium, with the best available players.

    It is down to choice if you support a team that is not in your country, and as such you take that choice to attend games at their home stadium – which you knew the location of when you chose to support the team.

    And that is not Xenophobia, before you get all PC on me!

  29. “Le Bob you talk about integrity, what about the integrity? ie you having the priviledge to watch The Arsenal at your whim and fancy and you begrudge us one game in a few seasons(I am sure they will not play every 39th game in Asia).

    All of those who protest are the ones who are able to watch the games easily but plse note I am no less a fan and have been supporting The Arsenal through thick and thin years.

    As far as I am concern Scudamore is a far sighted genius.”

    Don’t be so selfish, malasyan gooner. I live faaaaaaaaaaaar away from London and don’t want this silly scheme to go ahead anyway. So it’s not a xenophobia issue. I don’t even know London. It’s just that it’s ridiculous, it ruins the league and it’s done to fill the pockets of some nasty people who are ruining the game. How is that a positive thing??

    Sorry if I sound rude. But at least the way the proposal it’s done, you can only say it’s a joke. It turns football into a travelling circus just for some extra dollars, when the most important thing should be the football. Don’t we all talk about how much of a joke it is for Manchester United to go to Arabia in the middle of the season just to get a couple of millions? Well, it would be the same now, but for everyone, and with worst consequences. I find it quite sad.

  30. Malaysiangunner, sorry for the miss-spelling.

  31. flint,

    that is actually a great great idea.

    I think they should actually take a real chance and include those teams but only play the round of 16 or QF’s (when most of those teams would be out anyway), play those games abroad

  32. Malaysiangunner

    Your excuse for playing games in Asia is pure selfishness.

    Its not about who has money and who doesn’t. It is about the Club-Arsenal- which the last time I checked was based in North London, NOT Singapore or Kuala Lumpur.

    As an Arsenal fan in the US, I have accepted the fact that Arsenal plays games in England or Europe. Yet I am not selfish enough to suggest that Arsenal needs to come to me.

    Part of being a sports fan is that of sacrifice when necessary. To ask Arsenal to cater to you isn’t the way it works.

    Watch your games on TV and be happy when you actually get to watch the most exciting and thrilling team in the world play when others can’t.

    Besides, as a fan I want the Club to worry about how to win the league, CL, and the FA cup, rather than how to show their game to “fans” around the world for some money Arsenal and AW doesn’t even need.

  33. at the end of the abbreviated season of course. It may also work to bring some prestige back to the milk cup.

  34. Great article. Thanks Marcus! In principle, I agree with you 100%.

    As I commented on a previous thread on here before, I think Arsene’s response to it was measured but somehow interpreted in different (polarised) ways in the press. He’s right in pointing out 3 criteria for proposing any innovative ideas regarding the league: competitive quality, fairness and promotion of the game in the right way. Fairness alone is almost impossible to achieve. If some wise minds can come up with a scheme to keep it fair – as Marcus said rightly, the current scheme of everyone playing everyone else, home and away, is already almost as fair as it gets – I’d like to listen what they have to say.

    I’m from Hong Kong, one of the cities reportedly possible to host the proposed international EPL fixtures, now living in London. I’ve only been to the stadium tour, never watched a game at the Emirates or Highbury before. And I’ve always respected the fact that, like Marcus pointed out, EPL is an English league, ingrained in the English culture. Taking it around does sound like making it a ‘circus’. But before that, the PL suits are already making one themselves.

  35. Cup competitions, on the other hand, are an entirely different matter. You don’t play everyone else but just one team/round, and the draws make it a combination of footballing strength and luck anyway. Like you guys mentioned above, hosting some cup games could be a good idea worth exploring. Should we tell the suits so? 😀

  36. I’m more concerned now about the list of injuries that keeps rising by the minute…Wenger now saying Clichy & Sagna may be out. Although we may be getting Kolo & Eboue back, it seems Wenger is laying the ground to field players like Traore & Hoyte as full backs.

    Since I personally don’t care about the FA cup this season, and understanding that many will not agree with me. I still don’t want another disaster result like the Spuds in the CC.

    If the full backs are the only changes to Monday’s team Wenger wants to make, I’m ok with that but no more.

  37. i say we put

    gallas-sendy-toure-eboue

    across the back

  38. twotouch,

    although Senderos may be missing in action as well I like that back line. Can’t remember who floated the suggestion a few blogs back but that might open up the chance for Traore to play left midfield, which struck me as quite an interesting experiment.

    With the current injuries to the squad ManU will be going for blood to prove to themselves and their fans that they can stifle our title challenge (even if this is not a PL game). What a shock to them it would be if our injury-depleted team could pull out a draw or win. Manure seem to be experiencing a drop in form at the moment and now could be the time to really get one up on them psychologically.

  39. Flint McCullough

    Looks to me like:
    Jens
    Hoyte Kolo Senderos/Gallas Traore
    Eboue Gilberto Flamini/Cesc
    Hleb/Eduardo
    Bentner
    Song has not been mentioned but if he is fit he could play to rest Cesc & Flamini or Hleb.
    Giggs has apparently said they are prepared to win ugly, ie kick the shit out of our best players.

  40. Flint,

    You are right, I have no doubt they will go back to their old ways to stop us….they know that’s the only way they can.

  41. gris-
    don’t know why traore hasn’t been used there yet. Even as a sub.

    bendt.
    hleb cesc eboue
    flam
    traore gallas toure hoyte

    Bring on Ade if Bendtner is too isolated.
    sub flam w. giba btw 70-75
    sub cesc w. Song at 80

    this formation wouldn’t bother me so much so long as eboue and hleb track back like a mother-bitch…

    Although if Sendy heals up im sure he will rest Gallas.

  42. Song is listed as injured. Wenger has exactly 14 fit players to choose from. No Clichy, no Sagna.

  43. Sagna, by the way, is out for “personal reasons.”

  44. …and Im an idiot….4-4-1?

    I guess throw Dudu onto my teamsheet.

  45. only real decision is whether Gilberto plays instead of Cesc I think. I am sure bendtner will start.

  46. Great article Marcus.

    All these injuries to our players, together with Man U’s dip in form following their mid-season jaunt to Saudi is evidence enough for me as to why the 39th game would be a bad idea.

  47. Hi All

    Yes I am selfish but it is out of the desire to watch my life long supported club( since one year before Bertie Mee managed the club to its double)play live and in person competitively. To feel the roar of the crowd and the atmosphere. It is sine qua non. At this juncture even if I am a multi millionaire( which I am definitely not) I will find it hard to go weekly.
    Millions of us who are paying TV subscriptions, buying jerseys and what nots to finance the team and the stadium would like the opportunity to watch Arsenal in person more often. If more money goes to the clubs’ coffers to make EPL a better league why not. I donot subscibe to the purist view of too much money. If not for the money the EPL will not be the quality it is now.
    I do not apologise for it or feel the need to do so.

    UP THE ARSE!!!!

  48. Another thing which all of you have not factor in. All those who say that the EPL do not need more fans, how can you justify that statement. How many fans are enough? If the EPL is play more frequently once a year around the world( call it a contingent call it a circus, it will definately win more fans).

    It can only be a good thing. This is an evolutionary process.

    Up The Arse!!!!

  49. Most of us don’t have a problem with Arsenal playing some competitive games overseas.

    What we have a problem with is the daft 39th game proposal. Imagine if the league is neck and neck, and Man United play Derby three times in the season, while we play Portsmouth or Villa three times. The fair all-play-all-twice system is turned into a lottery.

    Hence Flint’s excellent suggestion for a cup competition.

    And remember, according to the PL proposal, cities would *bid* for games. That means the big games go to the richest cities, and the richest fans in those cities.

    For an average overseas fan it’ll make hardly any difference at all.

    They say there are 27m Arsenal fans worldwide. According to my maths, you’d have to play 540 games in a 50,000 seat stadium for each fan to get to see the team just once.

    11 players into 27m fans just doesn’t go. However you try to cut it.

  50. Finally and for once Blatter says something good, he is against the extra PL game, and the pl going global crazy. I think this Scuddamore or whatever his name is should have his head examined.

    I read in the Sun “which I don’t believe” that Cesc is signing a 33 Mil deal til 2016 (two extra years added) That’s 80,000/week….I think he deserves every bit of it, and it will probably let Barca hopefully go away for awhile. Still no news on Flamini contract!

    G4E

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