The Morning After The Night Before

Tottenham Hotspur 5 – 1 Arsenal

1 – 0 Jenas (3)
2 – 0 Bendtner o.g. (28)
3 – 0 Keane (48)
4 – 0 Lennon (60)
4 – 1 Adebayor (70)
5 – 1 Malbranque (90)

I hate to see Arsenal lose which is why this is a result that is both ‘gutting’ and bringing forth a phlegmatic attitude at once. The nature of the team on show and the competition has a lot to do with this; eight changes to the starting line-up from Saturday is not an Arsenal first team despite media attempts to portray it as such. That is not an excuse as Gus Poyet said afterwards, it is a fact. There has been some suggestion that Arsene took Spurs too lightly; I do not believe that to be the case – he fielded a team with the best that he had available and in light of the current fixture list. Indeed his irked reaction with the interviewer on Sky afterwards suggests he took the game very seriously.

It was a resounding score line with which Tottenham brought to an end a nine year search for a win over Arsenal. To some degree it was flattering yet they displayed a greater desire to win, a more cohesive game plan and a far greater sense of teamwork. Their tactics were simple; hunt in packs, be it defence, midfield or attack; hassle and harass; counter-attack effectively. To score as early as Jenas did assisted that plan, to be two goals in front within thirty minutes of the start boosted confidence immeasurably.

Arsenal were architects of their own downfall; three players could have realistically challenged Jenas before he shot; at least two more backed off as he progressed, to make up his mind for him about which course of action to follow. Warnings have been given in previous encounters about his ability to shoot accurately from outside of the area; last night confirmed that they had not been heeded. To compound this poor defensive technique, Bendtner was equally culpable for his own goal. Misfortune struck as his header hit the back of the net yet had he not taken his eye off of the ball’s flight, he would not have been in the position where it met the top of his skull rather than his forehead.

Conceding two early goals required digging into the depths of their reserves of mental strength but they could not be drawn on sufficiently to get a scoring foothold in the game. To concede three minutes into the second half was indicative that the night was lost; there would be no Herculean comeback this time. In between the second and third goals both sides had chances to score; Berbatov hit the post, Sagna forced a good save from Cerny whilst Chimbonda made the sort of tackle on Diaby that concedes penalties as often as they are denied.

Arsene would have emphasised the need to score an early goal in the second period and not to concede to force Tottenham’s nerves to the fore. The latter happened and ended the tie. A long pass over the top sent Keane through the gap between Sagna and Hoyte, Keane struck a tame effort with the outside of his boot that Fabianski should have stopped. Bendtner then hit the bar with an acrobatic volley which would have reduced the deficit. The fourth fifteen minutes later was the pick of the five; Lennon started and finished the move following an eighty metre run from well inside his own half. Sometimes you just have to doff your cap to the opposition for scoring. Adebayor replaced the ineffective Walcott and scored a cracker in the seventieth minute, driving home from the edge of the area. In the end, Arsenal pressed forward so much that gaps and further punishment was inevitable; that it took thirty minutes from scoring the fourth is the only surprise, Malbranque tapping home from close range in injury time.

Statistics are useful in some cases but in this instance only serve to deceive. Arsenal may well have gained 61% of the possession but when they had the ball in the attacking third, they were ineffective. Too many square passes across the pitch and possession surrendered cheaply. That they won it back equally cheaply does not help their cause. The Tottenham defence was well marshalled by King and they isolated Bendtner and Walcott, rendering them largely ineffective. Their midfield worked harder and closed down spaces when the ball reached the final third of the pitch yet supported their attack very well.

In many respects it was ‘one of those nights’; Spurs had six shots on goal, scored five and hit the post, the sort of return that happens once a season. Yet they merited the win fully. They were more effective in possession, more menacing in front of goal where it counts. Whether it is the spark to revive their season is a way off being known, they have the small matter of a visit to Old Trafford to gauge that aspect. For Arsene, there is now a quandary; what does he do about this weekend’s FA Cup tie? The side would largely have been the one he thought about putting out for that fixture yet the defensive naïveté would question the wisdom of that. Certainly, Hoyte one would expect Philippe Senderos to return; up front, Walcott and Bendtner did not gel; Bendtner and Adebayor got physical with each other such was the frustration of the defeat. Eduardo and/or the Togolese forward will surely start the next two games. However, there is a Premier League match in six days time so more rotation has to happen. The easiest reaction would be to field his strongest team yet when you fall off a bicycle; the best thing to do is to get back on it.

To write off the careers of players on the basis of last night is foolish. The castigation of those who played – including Fabregas in this instance – might well have been merited but to say they are not good enough or have lost it beggars’ belief. Fabianski is at least a decade younger than either of the first team goalkeepers used in the Premier and Champions Leagues; he will make mistakes and learn from them. Hoyte is a decent squad right back and not ready to be more versatile for a longer period of time. Denilson and Fabregas have had a dip in form in their recent games but this is temporary. Walcott is young and low on confidence; the ability is there, perseverance is required. If I was to mark out of ten, none of the team would get more than five, many less, showing the low level of performance. To presume a season is over based on one result is unbelievable; still in three competitions and knowing that two of them will have a complete first team on the pitch means that whilst last night is not irrelevant, it is equally not the end of the season nor indicative of anything like that.

‘til Tomorrow

Posted on January 23, 2008, in Arsenal, Carling Cup, FA Cup, Football, League Cup, Premier League, Premiership. Bookmark the permalink. 202 Comments.

  1. Fully agree about not writing players off. Anyone argung to the contrary, consider this; Would our team be enhanced by Tainio, Lee, Malbranque, or Jenas. No. And Dawson is a completely different player without King. Spurs played well and deserved the result. Ramos has done a good job
    in a short time. However, I do think Arsene’s comments pre match suggested complacency.

  2. There is a very easy way of looking at this.

    Last night was a slight disappointment in Arsenal’s season, but it will be the best Tottenham have done in a decade.

    It’s never nice to lose, but you have to put it in context. I would rather lose to Spurs in the CC than lose to Spurs where it could effect our league position. They played well over both legs. They deserved it. Well done. But there is not a single Spurs player or fan that would not want to swap positions with Arsenal players or fans.

    Today, ask the gloating Spurs fan in your office (they all have one) this simple question:

    What would you rather do, win the Carling Cup – having beaten your geographic rivals, or qualify for the Champions League.

    There will only be one answer.

  3. Gooner for 60 years

    Strange that our first teamers starting last night individually played worse than the second stringers in the first leg. Yet overall we played better than in the first leg at Ashburton. Funny old game. No complaints. No excuses.

  4. Gooner for 60. Makes a valid point in that we were better than the first leg.

    We’ll be fine, I said last night. It is what it is! A slightly embarrassing defeat for a team that has done fantastic stepping up and out performing more senior players regularly in a competition that unlike our rivals, we treat as a reserve playground.

    That’s fine. It works out better for the Milan tie. Spur’s fans can have their moment.

  5. Over the course of the two legs we deserved to lose by the end scoreline. Truth be told, they had the greater desire and crucially the greater experience and that showed in the score line.
    Shame today’s newspapers seem to be focusing on the Adebayor and Bendtner arguement. At least it showed that they both cared about the result!
    One thing that did leave a sore taste though was the ridiculous scene of Cesc being unable to take a corner due to the amount of stuff that was being thrown at him by the crowd. Too often that kind of thing happens at WHL and they really do need to do something about it.

  6. Very disgusted with the loss last nite. Theo Walcot should be given leave to refocus…Bendtner was unlucky with the OG…Gilberto is INVISIBLE these days…The Spuds deserved to win with their determination to beat us in 22 attempts….The young guns now will be more mature…One question though, as the Spuds will meet ManUre in the FA Cup, who will most of the Gunners go for?

  7. if his concern was to rest the first teamers for bigger things . why bring Ady on when the game was lost ? my thoughts go out to the faithful who were at WHL having to endure the torment . We should have started with the big guns . these kind of nights i dont want to see again . How many of you can honestly say you didnt squirm at the team selection ? Arsene said afterwards the score didnt reflect what happened on the pitch . I agree , Over the 2 legs it could have been 10 !

  8. Its the way we lost that was disapointing, totally lacking in any imagination or ideas.
    We scored two goals at Fulham from By line crosses, did we manage any last night?
    We had 8 corners against a team that has let in goals from corners all season, were we a danger NO.

    We played with no width on either flank , and did not play with anyone in front of Traore.

    If we are going to use young players, then Randall, Lansbury, Watt, Gibbs and even Sunu would all have done a better job than Walcott,, he has now made over 50 appearances for the team, and apart from the goal in the Carling Cup Final and a one off game in the Champions league he has been a waste of space/time and money

    We are desperately short of forwards , Anelka should have been bought along with a decent left sided winger

    Walcott the new Francis Jeffers

  9. Have to take issue with some of the points you raised. Firstly, no way was Chimbonda’s challenge on Diaby a penalty: not one Arsenal player asked for it. Diaby went down as if shot: his theatrics were seen through by an excellent referee.

    Secondly, to gloss over Bendtner and Adabayor’s fight does you no credit. These things happen in training, not on the park in front of the most rabid set of Gunner-haters, who would have absolutely loved it. As I understand it, Bendtner asked for it and got it, but Adabayor needs a severe dressing down for his actions.

    Let’s face it: this has been coming.

  10. Ok it was Spurs time to win, it couldnt have gone better for them. After almost nine years of not beating a team that generally tends to happen eventually.
    I agree with Yogi it would be foolhardy to write players off and say they are not good enough for the club. The most important fact is how we are going to react for the Newcastle game.
    Its not the end of the world, it was the CCup and lets praise the kids rather than send them to Coventry, they did the club proud for getting this far.
    On the negative side if i was to delve would be to say some players have a fair way to go before they are going to get into the first team.
    Although i am not going to blame Theo in anyway, for a player with so much ability he runs around with that ‘dont know what to do’ look about him which is worrying. Perhaps some of the postees are right and a loan move might well do him the world of good.
    But lets not get too down we are top of the league,in the FA cup and CL, things are not that bad, lets maul Newcastle twice and all our chins will be up, hopefully !

  11. Some of the reaction here is embarrasing!! It’s the Carling Cup! Who cares?!

    If we lost 5-1 or 1-0 it doesnt make a difference. We play Newcastle in the FA Cup on Saturday and a month today we play AC Milan in the Champions League. Oh did i mention we are joint top of the league??

    Get some perspective people!

  12. We seem to have forgotten how to break at speed – that was the big difference between the teams last night. Only one comment on players – if we had played Flamini in place of Gilberto, I suspect the result would have been different, so great is the gulf between them now in that position.

    Strangely reminiscent of England’s famous 5-1 victory over Germany when we all pretended we were in a different league but on re-watching the match it was clear that we had been deadly in converting our chances while they hadnt

  13. Johan .. breaking at speed is what you do when you are ahead . not when you are trailing

  14. Yeah the over reaction is verging on the ridiculous.

    If you are insistent our squad is inherently flawed, then no doubt last night has proven you right.

    If you understanding that the club treats the Carling Cup like a reserve competition, then last night does not blur that.

    Get over it! It’s not nice, but Spurs have a new manager desperate to make his mark. A squad of highly paid under acheivers desperate to please him.

    We on the other hand…have bigger fish to fry.

  15. Yogi nailed this one on the head. They had a plan and it helped we handed them the first goal by backing off Jenas, then we gave them a huge boost of confidence by scoring the second in our goal ourselves.

    They did exactly what I wanted Arsenal to do in this game, finish our chances and get them on the counter attack, but, they did it to us, they finished the first chance they got after 3 minutes, got lucky on the second and killed us on the counter attack.

    It is gutting to lose to the Spuds but as classy as we are at Arsenal, We have the guts to admit they stuck to their plan and finished well. I think this result was way far beyond their expectations. They deserved to win.

    I do agree with the crowd that we did play better than the first leg, if we played this way at Ashburton Groove in the first leg, we may have had a different outcome from this CC tie. It was time for the young team to taste the sour taste of defeat, something they gave in earnest to other teams in the past.

    I still think, the future is ours and maybe the present too. Three more competitions to play for.

    G4E

  16. Well Said Danny

    Maybe some of these fans would have been happier if like Man Ure we had gone out playing a weakened side in the 3rd round. Instead we have had a string of games to give fringe and youth players valuable experience playing Full Premiership teams.

    Reading last night’s blogs, it got quite heated on here and as expected the often hibernating Ethan came out again when things were not going to well. A lot of the posts were based on the strength of our squad and we should have played full strenghth. Well sorry guys, give the spuds some credit, even if we had the 1st 11 out they would probably still have beaten us night, they were excellent and wanted it more.

    All I would repeat though, is I really believe that Theo should go out on loan. Wenger has admitted that the winger experiment has finished and his chances to play up front will be limited. We are in danger of really stunting this kids development and I feel that if he could get a regular strikers berth at another premiership club till the end of the season, it would be like a new signing next year.

  17. Let’s not kid ourselves this was a dreadful performance. Hleb was terrible. Sagna and Adebayor were begging for yellow cards. Theo ‘Invisible Man’ Walcott couldn’t get anyone to pass to him. Abu Hamza would have done better in goal than Fabianski. To top it all two of our player squaring up to each other in front of 35000 Spurs fans. I know that there are other priorities but it was Spurs after all!

  18. Pat, I agree with you on everything except that they would still beat us with our first team.

    Sorry, going in a game were both teams wanted the win…Arsenal 1st team still would prevail against theirs.

  19. I will pick a point on Theo and that is after watching the game the second time this morning.
    I actually have no problem with the way he played. The two goals conceded made Spurs defend deep and hit long balls out of defence with the very capable Berbetov able to win headers and flicks against our smaller central defenders.

    Theo was crowded out too often and that is understandable considering how the game panned out.

    Theo and Bendtner would have learnt a lot yesterday and my guess is further analysis by the coaching staff would identify areas of improvement for both Bendtner and Theo (18 and 19 in age) .

    That said it was still fun to watch. And Cesc has to be one of the most rediculously gifted midfielders around at the moment. I paid more attention to his performance the second time around and he covered a lot of ground offensively and defensively. Easily outwitting Sp*rs 5 man midfield lots of time.

    This is a reality check for the team and fans. And it will enable the re-focus on the next game.

  20. patthegooner:
    Theo is learning by being around the AW and our coaching staff. We just want too much.
    We sometimes take the like of Cesc for granted, who is a very very special player and expect more from players of similar age.

    Theo is fine, watch the game again (not highlights) and you’ll see more.

  21. I was just referring to last night G4E

    Of course we would beat them 1st team vs 1st team on 9 out of 10 games, but last night the Spuds wanted it more and our 1st team just would not have got the result last night.

  22. Flint McCullough

    I don’t quite agree with you on the strength of last night’s team, YW. It was a team that could well have played in the PL . We could not call it a usual CC line up.

    It was never going to be our night, that happens sometimes. They were much sharper at both ends & deserved their win.

    Let’s hope it will be a wake up call.

    You could not fault us for effort, I was just amazed at the work Hleb was putting in to the last seconds.

    No one was particularly poor but several were under par. Cesc is still looking for his best form.

    My main observations would be:
    Flamini & Ade are now so important to our game.

    Gilberto has lost a yard because he has not been playing. He might get it back with a run of games but for me he should now be a defender.

    AW will now be regretting putting out so many main 1st team players.

    We may have been caught between 2 stools because a half & half team against the Keegan factor Newcastle would have problems.

    I think we will need to play our strongest possible line up in both games against them because of the confidence element.

    We need to bounce back immediately.

  23. Yes Theo is learning from AW, but you cant get match experience on a training ground and given that Theo is quite a shy bloke who seems to need reassurance and confidence, he needs to be playing week in week out and given that he is now 5th choice striker I think like Fran Merida he needs a loan, and if not a loan, lets give him a run in the reserves.

  24. G4E .. we can assume that we beat anybody .. it means very little in real life .. useless guessing
    having been to our 2 home games agaisnt them this season, we were under severe pressure in the league .. lucky to escape and played off the pitch in the CC
    thats fact .. thats reality .. the rest means f*kk all
    bottom line is that the surprise effect of the CC is wearing off on our own players as they dont progress into the 1st squad anyay ..
    Cesc was played in every game to make him the player he is today..not only CC games
    2 of our worst players over the last 2 years are English .. Justin Hoyte and Theo Walcott.. no class, no technique
    I couldnt care less about the C, but I dont think we should lose 5-1 to the Spurs
    also .. our team looks a bit pedestrian .. last year, Kolo covered in the CC and was important .. gallas yday was abysmal .. he has lost a lot of pace… yday Berbatov and Keane went through him for fun .. in days past, that would have been impossible
    I dont think it matters that much in the CL as the game is more positional, but without Kolo, Gallas becomes quite exposed

  25. Good post YW

    The Chemistry between the players is not right. Denilson and Cecs does not blend well. We lost the fight there. Gallas did not marshall the team well enough this time. Bendtner and Walcott was too isolated as said by YW. Just because we throw in one or 2 first team members does not automatically increase the overall quality of the entire team when they do not blend well. Like I said before no great shakes we lost in the CC to Spuds. The youngsters and AW needless to say would have gain valuable insights and treat this as a good learning experience and move on. If there was a time to get a thrashing it is in this game. They now need to pick themselves up and give a good account of themselves for the rest of the season and win the EPL and the CL. This is the only way to redeem themselves for this honestly speaking very awful account of themselves

    Up The Arse!!!!

  26. If there was ever a game where one team wanted it more than the other, it was last night. They were first to everything, blocked nearly every shot we had and defended very well, rarely leaving any player one on one. This is certainly a different team under Ramos.

    Hleb in particular seemed to be singled out as the danger man, any time he received the ball he had at least 2 of their players on him. Unfortunately he chose to try to beat them all rather than pass it most times.

    Hopefully we can pick ourselves up and not let it affect us in the league, which is obviously a lot more important than the carling cup.

  27. the way its meant to be played

    this game clearly showed why rosicky and flamini have been so crucial to our midfield this season. I think its high time we get rid of gilberto coz he doesn’t fit into our pass n move game any longer. And what to say abt Diaby ..this guy seems to play only to impress..i can only recall he lost the ball each time passed onto him..oh my…

  28. BB

    Did you watch the game. Gallas was hardly abysmal. He was not helped at all by Hoyte who looked dangerously out if his depth in the middle.

    Also criticisms of Hleb are ridiculous. He is very close to returning to his early season form.

    It’s never nice losing to Spurs and it is indeed rare. They were by far the better side in the first leg but were in fact a little lucky this leg, in that every effort they had bulged the net. They desrved it, in all fairness.

    The over reactions are more embarrassing than the defeat in a comp we use to blood youngsters.

    Oh we made the semi’s with our fringe players!!! How terrible!

    Oh and we got beat by a side playing their complete first eleven, who’s only chance it was to grab any old piece of silverware. What a nightmare.

    We’re out of the same cup that United went out of in the 3rd round to Coventry. Oh no!!!

    Get a bloody grip, have some pride and shut up you complete panic-stricken clowns.

  29. BB I share totally your sentiments on Gallas. It is a shame that Gilberto has refussed to play as a defender. (which is what AW wants). Gallas also tends to back off big players which has caused us lots of grief against teams with big centre forwards. Gilberto has a lot more to offer the team if he agrees to play in defence.

    Having privy to player stats these are our fastest players

    Adebayor
    Cliche
    Walcot
    Kolo
    Traoure
    Gilberto (yeah)

    And this very recent stats.

  30. Danny:
    I reitorate having watched the game again. Infact Hoyte was actually the better of our two defenders.

    A number of times even the comentators mistake a Hoyte header or tackle as Gallas’

  31. Flint McCullough

    Well said Danny.

    It looked to me like we started by trying to impose the game on them but came unstuck by that early goal, which really lifted Spurs.

    History told me to expect a result like this. Now is the time for supporters to get behind the team & congratulate the youngsters involved for getting so far.

    Did anyone see the Nick/Ade incident?

    To have both of them suspended at the same time would be bad news. So foolish & unprofessional. What was the point of putting Ade on at 0-4 anyway?

  32. Oh yes pat the hibernating Ethan !

    Nothing to disappear about !
    I would just rather write on other blogs where
    people have a more open view of the game ..
    Where they can accept that we need a few players who can turn these types of games around , and in his defense ,cesc goes missing like i keep saying against some opposition , he isn’t out of form . He just doesn’t possess the upper body strength to mix it with the big boys yet .. Its ok if the opposition doesn’t hassle him like yogi said .. and stay off him to allow his skill and passing to flourish . Your all more disappointed that i’m right again ! We didn’t have the strength to beat spurs!.I saw it coming and you can all get angry at me ! blah blah blah ! woteva ! I could imagine how G4E would have acted if we won ! However I’m not as OUTRIGHT rude as he is .. a simple told you so is enough for me ..
    Yes arsene treated this game lightly , but he also knew like i did that he wanted to win just due to the rivalry aspect of it ! So the squad as i predicted was a stronger one with a lot of 1st team regulars ! ( yes they are 1st team regulars as arsene has shown faith in them in the EPL THIS SEASON ! making them as such !!!!! )

    G4E you are mad !
    Sorry, going in a game were both teams wanted the win…Arsenal 1st team still would prevail against theirs.

    So your telling me add flamini ? and clichy + alumina and we would have one it ??
    deaf ears mate !
    all the other starters played minutes ! ALL !
    so what the strikers were turned over at 60th minute mark ! .. you need to get possession in the final 3rd to score goals and that didn’t happen ‘all night’ !!! and be it hoyte or senderos , the defense was pretty much as full strength as we have at the moment ! and the midfield with hleb and cesc usually is enough on most other EPL games . You could argue about the strikers not being powerful enough , but then you need the ball in that final 3rd to score ! Other than your lover ‘ade’ ! bendtner came the closest to providing a goal . and was unlucky .
    So given the limited fire power arsenal possess i think it was a average night at the office !
    You need to get the ball down in the final 3rd to score goals !!!
    Or have a striker like berbatov who can beat a player !
    He didnt score any but he was their architect ..And jenas ! Who i seem to remember someone telling me here he was shite !

    We played better in the 1st leg because we were at home ! I saw Arsenal fans leave at the 60-70 minute mark last night .. SUPPORT !
    was the difference between a walloping and a drawn game , which in all honesty was a poor result at home too !
    Yes im the doom bringer ! I made them all play bad ! HAHAHA get off the grass ! This is just a repeat of last year .. we alway fall off the pace in the latter half of the year .. I just hope our players
    find the hunger they had in the 1st 1/2 of the season ..

  33. The Oracle: (Ethan)
    We are so bad, why are we second in the league?

  34. I just cant understand last nights team selection. the line up looked weak. i did not feel at kick off that our team could beat them if they even played relatively well. as it tunred out in the final third they were deadly – taking nearly all their chances so we did not stand a chance with that team.
    for me you either put out a young team for the experience or a strong team to win the match. last night was several first teamers playing in a team with 4 or 5 very weak areas. it was a terrible mix. Gilberto should never play in midfield for us again. this is not an observation from last night alone but its clear from every time he has played this season that he is a long way behind what is now expected at Arsenal and what Flamini is supplying.

    The left hand side was weak – Traore and Diaby could not deal with anything in terms of defence. Traore prefers to go forward while Diaby wants to cut inside which is too predictable. Diaby being played out of positon is wengers fault NOT diaby’s.
    The strikers of Bendtner and Walcott were weak too. to be fair they never got an inch of space from the spurs defence but they never made themselves any space. good strikers find space.

    I just wish we’d played a more balanced team of youngsters ie Bert at the back, Diaby in the middle, Randall on the wing. we may have lost but it would have been easier to take than this. this one goes down to wenger I’m afraid.

    I say let most of them play again on Saturday. give them a chance to redeem themselves but dont make the same mistakes as listed above.

    If theo goes on loan (which he should do) we need to buy ourselves a winger/striker. with RVP out for god knows how long, I think that makes sense.

  35. Dead right Danny!

    Not happy about losing but sooner or later we were going to lose a game against them. At least it was a game that in the overall scheme of things is way down our list.

    Maybe an arsekicking will do the players a favour and focus them.

    One thing does piss me off though, Spuds fans claim to be better, classier, more commited fans than Arsenal fans. Then why throw things at Cesc when you are winning comfortably?

    Just show’s the difference between the two sets of fans.

  36. danny
    you should of been on the titanic with that sort of optimism , your fooling no one ! If you were a real fan ! you’d realize losing to spurs just cant happen !

    Gallas had a shocker ! and unsettled the troups !
    it was obvious even from my TV 7000 km away! Shouting , yelling .. and i would of liked to know what he said to bendtner !!!!
    he got wrong sided on a jenas dash on a run down the right side , out of position constantly and not sure were he was in the final 10 minutes .. He looked like he wanted to become a striker ..

    The game was a shocker ! AND so what, of what man’ure did ??! they have won things for the past few years !
    they can afford the luxury ! Us going down to spurs .. is unacceptable !
    and muppets like you make achieving Greatest that little bit harder , with your careless attitude !
    Blooding youth ? is your only excuse ! Thank god you don’t run AFC or you should call yourself raffa and concentrate on the C.L only !
    We were 180 minutes off silverware ! and achieving something AFC has never Won in its current form , surely even you would think at that point .. LETS JUST WIN THE DAM THING !

  37. shango

    The Oracle: (Ethan)
    We are so bad, why are we second in the league?

    We are not bad , but you should ask yourself why only5 or 6 weeks ago we were 6 points clear and on top !!!

  38. well done gazzup !

    you are one of the very few who can see the game and players for what they are!!
    i agree with everything you said !

    If theo goes on loan (which he should do) we need to buy ourselves a winger/striker. with RVP out for god knows how long, I think that makes sense.

    Praise the lord ! but if you say buy a striker you might get the G4E brigade jump up and down on your a$$ , thats how it all started for me !!

  39. wasn’t it 3 points with a game in hand we were in front? or if it was 6 points, I think it was because man u played the day after us.

    Man U did go a few seasons without winning anything and their strong CC line up (that included Rooney and Ronaldo) lost to Southend. Man u also lost to some Saudi team this week. does that make them useless or do they just pick their battles wisely?

    fact is, the CC is way down the list. if we lose 5-1 to Milan or in the league then I expect a big reaction from the fans. Spurs a good side. just admit it. With King back they are a genuine top 6 team – better than Blackburn, Villa and Portsmouth and maybe even Everton and Man City. to beat top 6 teams away from home, you need to be very very strong, and that was never going to be the case last night was it?

  40. Ethan

    Have you ever posted anything positive?

    Sometimes I wish we would buy some players just so you would change the record and come up with some interesting to read.

    Honestly I used to enjoy your contributions, arguments and posts, but they are that repetitive now, I just skim over them

  41. Oracle

    Number one…don’t question whether Im a “real fan”, I go to games and support the team thru thick and thin. You on the other hand are a brainless inbred moron.

    Number two…don’t talk to me, I’m not interested in anything you have to say! You’re a sad idiot of a father!

  42. Gilberto should retire today.He is finished as a top class player.You cant play at the highest level if you are as slow as him.He made Jenas look like Zidane last night

  43. Just read Wengers summation of the game on Arsenal.com. It says it all really. We looked good and there first attack was a goal. It got there tails up and they beat us. Fair and square. Let them have there day in the sun. There gonna be beaten by whoever gets through the other semi anyway.

    It seems yesterday was a bad day all round for lovers of The Arse, with the guy from Brokeback Mountain dying.

  44. Sorry to say this but I am Arsenal through and through but the attitude here is why we got stuffed last night…what happened to the passion if we had a bit more passion & pride it would have been so bad…

    It seems we have forgotten that our main ain going into every season is to win trophies which at the moment we do not look like doing if we are being honest…we could fall short in every way there is a thin line so we have to make the most of our oppotunities…

    May I also add that I am sick of our so called legends having pops at us because they seem to have a problem with the fact that Wenger bombed them out in one way or another…YES IAN WRIGHT, PAUL MERSON, ALAN SMITH, BRAIN MARWOOD, GEORGE GRAHAM & everyone involved with talkSport…ok I will take a breathe now!!

  45. Could you sound any more delighted that we lost Ethan?

    Oh yes, it confirms all your dire predictions. Except, of course, that it doesn’t. That was not our full strength team by a long shot, for a start. Your repeated opinion that Bendtner is better than Ade? Bendtner was poor all night and even managed to score for the opposition. Ade came on with 20 minutes to go and scored a cracker. And from outside the box by my calculations, which you didn’t think he could do. And the fans singing the Adebayor song after the first 2 goals says it all.

  46. …and another thing about Ade is he was one of the very few who played with passion. Yeah he almost got send off and head butted Bendtner but thats the kind of passion and desire to win that the rest of them were missing

  47. Femster you have repeated what Merse says ie that “our main ain going into every season is to win trophies”, then you go on to say you are sick of Merse having a pop.
    A bit hypocritical I must say.

  48. Our main aim is to win MAJOR trophies.

  49. Gazzap…I understand what you are saying but with Merse it is more to do with his constant criticism of Arsene…watch soccer staurday…we act like we are the only team who wants to win these MAJOR trophies…

  50. Danny .. yes I wtached the game at home and I also go to the games .. thanks Shango for backing me up

    Gallas was poor .. he was slow and oursmarted/run by every Spurs player he faced .. also as Shango pointed out, and especially in the home game in the league against Spurs, Gallas backed off from committing himself to any header .. I was sitting there going mad .. Spurs played every ball to Berba on to Clichy’s side and the poor bloke had to deal with lennon at the same time .. bearing in mind that Gael is our smallest defender
    it was bordering cowardice in that game
    now Gallas is an important player, but he is also very clever in self preservation.. he has lost pace..same as TH14 and compensates, but the EPL is fast tempo foot and Kolo handsomely covers up for that
    against classic European opposition, he will be fine
    I agree strongly with Ethan that we are short players. we have alway been this season and have squandered a vauluable lead over the last few weeks without playing enticing football
    go to the games and sit there and feel the athmosphere.. nobody gets enthused about our style for the moment .. both Cesc and Hleb are shadows of what they were earlier in the season
    Flam/Kolo/Clichy are the real performers in the team
    they have kept us afloat by and large, but it wont be enough to win a trophy .. so another season going trophyless .. paying highest ticket prices, being told the club is awash in money and being promised by AW that he will ONLY BUY SUPER SUPER STARS
    I dont care much about AFC winning the CC, but I care about our lack of depth/quality in all areas of the pitch
    RVP is injured .. yet we dont consider buying a replacement .. centrebacks now we have only Gallas, yet we dont buy
    midfield, bar Cesc, no other creator
    wingers .. none or maybe Diaby.. !! and then everything is perfect here.. some people need a reality check

  51. Merson is a c*nt. Full stop.

    Ethan:

    Flamini,Toure, Clichy,Almunia +/- Rosicky/Eboue = 1st team.

    Took 6 points off totts in the League this year.

    thought you should know…….

  52. Gazzapp we do need a winger, but as Vela is coming next season a stop gap is no good. Why not give one of the youngsters a chance they cant do worse than Diably when he plays on the wing.
    Theo should not be a starter again, he should go out on loan, We also need a CB ths summer Gallas is 31 and is getting slower we need to sell him to Italy and get Micah Richards,
    BB Clichy wasnt even playing last night, and Traore who was is still very inexperienced.
    I wish we had played wihout any first team players even if we got beat even worse, but had given the youth a chance.

  53. We lost move on, your comment on them acting in packs was so true, rerun the game and that is what they did hunt in packs. I’m sure the boss will look at the game and come up with a plan to overcome it. Notice people here have been calling for 442 we got 442 and lit did us no good. But and it is a very very big but is the fighting between our own players; that is just not on. I must have a short memory but I can not ever remember that happening before. They play for the team not themselves, I’m sure the boss will have something to say. As for Theo he really does need a run in the reserves for a few games, the benefit will be there for all to see.

  54. solgooner .. thanks I know Clichy didnt play .. I watched the game .. maybe you should read things properly .. otherwise ask for a brain implant

  55. Flint McCullough

    It never ceases to amaze me.

    We have lack of depth apparently but our 2nd 11 gets us to the second leg of the sf with still a great chance. On the way beating Newcastle, & then Blackburn away with 10 men.

    Man U get well beaten by Coventry at home in similar circumstances, while Chelsea rest few players for these matches.

    We have a temporary problem at CB but who are we going to get, of any stature, happy to give way when Kolo returns?

    For me Gilberto is the answer & I wish he had played there last night.

    The same could be said about strikers if Bentner & Ade get suspended.

    There is also an argument about replacing Diarra but I suspect Song & Denilson are rated highly.

    Too big a squad produces its own problems.

    Forget short term answers. We have enough good players but some of you need to remember they are not robots & no game is easy these days.

    We may or may not win trophies this year but we are competing and have a chance. In general we usually play great football so, as luck always has a part to play, that is all we can ask of our team. There are certainly 18 PL teams not doing as well for their fans.

    There are some amongst us who should show more appreciation for the general excellence we have & stop showing their shear ignorance of the ups & downs of the game especially after a setback.

  56. Football is a funny old game, we win we are happy we lose then apparently Ethan is an oracle??
    I try never to get to engaged in discussions with people who vent steam because they always have fogged up glasses. Ethan, whilst there are points I can understand in your diatribe, it never ceases to surprise me that you never have anything to say in a positive fashion? We were poor last night and we lost, hell, we deserved to lose and I have no complaints. All to often you disappear in your void when we are marching and then pop out your head when things are not going to plan? I no longer sit in the stands but did for 9 years before moving to Canada, I have heard it all there including the the inane commentary from supporters much like yourself. I am not the quiet type on game day and always represented the passionate fan, in fact we need voice to show out true support. I would however ask you and all other posters to see both sides of the equation and not just one. Last night was poor and the players know it, learn from it and move on.
    I cannot agree that we are short on players, will actually I would like a winger for the left but lets face it that isn’t happening. The problem we all seem to gloss over is the more players the less spots up for grabs and the more they want out. We are not Chelsea, just so we are all clear… we are not Chelsea. Arsenal are not about to pay players £70k a week to sit on bums and wear a track suit on the bench or a suit in the stands. If we win the league all credit to Wenger and the boys if we don’t then lets build for the next shot at the title

  57. Flint .. you write utter rubbish .. AFC does not need to win trophies .. are you kidding yourself? are you going to the games? do you pay the money that AFC charges for a ticket? do you not feel that the club oews you back decent performances?
    This is not a one way street .. our so called “dream” football has evaporated as hot air since the Prague game .. we have become distinctly average
    these are facts .. we are short players in every department .. and our second squad has not won us at Blackburn .. it was Diarra and Dudu .. of which Diarra is gone .. could have used him yday instead of pedestrian Gilberto
    there was not much class on the pitch for us last night .. and not much prospective clas either
    it hurts to watch a real gem of a player like Berbatov play for the sh*t up North

  58. BB a real gem like berbatov ??? Bollox, you make it sound like we do not have way better players than the spuds. We lost to them…shit happens. It does not mean we are a shit team, it just meant we lost. We have beaten them twice this season and we were not playing the full squad. We are and will always be better than the gordforsaken spuds and that is a fact!

  59. If you can’t handle it, support another team!

    Find a side that have not lost to their local rivals in 25 years, then you’ll be happy!

    Find a side not joint top, but clear by 20 points.
    Then you’ll be happy.

    Find a side, who never has dip in form and play anything less than the greatest football on the planet. Then you’ll be happy.

    Or even a side, that never keeps the faith with their young players and at the slightest blip, goe out and fixes the problems purchasing players £40 mill a time.

    And of course that side will have good English owners, and money growing on a tree in the garden.

    What a world class bunch of whining idiots.

    Breathe and remember everyone wants to be the best!

  60. BB you say the club owes us trophies for paying the ticket prices etc but that is utter crap. the club dont owe us anything. we choose to support this club and when you support a club you accept that you win some you lose some. your attitude is something closer to what a chelsea fan would say.
    wenger is the manager and he makes the decisions – I dont like every decision for sure but no supporter can ever demand trophies in return for their support.
    Arsenal have done very well on the trophy front so just imagine what Newcastle fans feel. how much of their money have their poured into the club for no trophies ever. how much does that work out per trophy?!

  61. Flint McCullough

    I think my presence at matches probably exceeds yours by some distance, BB. I certainly have put enough in to warrant airing my opinion on matters.

    What I have learnt is that over a season, even league winning seasons, you have ups & downs.

    If you are lucky you will get 5/6 great performances & maybe 1 or 2 superlatives, when everything goes right as it did for Tottenham last night. The rest is somewhere below that, including 5/6 awful performances. That is in a good season.

    You may remember the 1-5 drubbing we got at Stoke, in the 1st double year. I was there, were you? Similar game, we had more possession than them but they scored every time they got to our end. Then there was the 2-6 against Man U in 1989, same story.

    So take comfort from the fact that even our best sides can take a hammering.

    You are welcome to critise me BB. You have the Newcastle mentality, that gets them precisely nowhere fast & very often.

  62. firstly YW, your comment about what team to pick saturday is ridiculous. he HAS to play the first team from now on in. another loss would be completely ugly, last year we lost 3 trophies in 10 days and hopefully wenger will have learnt from that.

    secondly the comment that we are only interested in MAJOR trophies is also ridiculous. to focus only on the champions league and league is absurd. only one team can win both and to think it is that or nothing is ridiculous. we have never won the CL so its a fair assumption the odds are against us (as it is everyone else) as for the league i agree that is the primary target every year but again only one team can win it and we are not favourites for that either. i hope to god wenger doesn’t throw the fa cup like he did last year as well.

    we do need to win something however small you think it is. are we that arrogant now that cups that man utd, chelsae and liverpool have all won in the past five years is too small for us. sorry to say guys but we are not the biggest and best club in england and europe and should be trying to win the competitions we are in.

    as for last night my comment from yesterday stands, if he wasn’t intersested in winning (ie the team selection in the first leg) why bother yesterday with the first team players on the bench and then bringing them on while your 4 0 down!!!! Completely absurd from wenger accross the board last night.

    as for the individual players i agree castigating them on one performance is not correct, but clearly the gap between the 1st team players and reserves is too large. ie clichy to traroe, gallas/toure to senderos/djouroe, sagna to hotye, flam/fab to gilb/den, helb to eboue, tom to diaby, ade/ rvp to bentner/walcott. if we can keep the key players fit we can give it a good shot for the title, but the reserves are not as good as we hoped for.

    obviously that brings up the old argument of reinforcements, and again as i have said a million times there are clearly better back up players (who should really be competing against not covering for) our centre backs, wide players, now centre midfielder (with diarra gone) and possible a forward although bendtner and dudu have got good potentioal assuming RVP ever gets fit.

    the reality is there is no real competition for places any more, the first team if ever fit is very clearly set in stone and that is not a good thing.

    however we are still doing way better than i thought we would. so still overall happy with the way things are going.

  63. the question is how long can we go without winning anything would you be happy with top four finishes and semi final champions league every year? at what point does wenger need to start winning things again for the club and fans to ask some questions? wenger is a genius as he has the safest job in world football irrespective of results. last night we get mauled and embarresed by our closest rivals yet he can come on the TV smiling away without a care in the world saying he never really cared about it anyway. (which is completely true as shown by his team selection). i do think it is fair for fans to ask questions about last night.

  64. Flint .. Tottenham were at least equal against us in the league at the Emirates .. outplayed us in the 1st round CC and played us off the pitch in the 2nd round
    so its clearly not a ONE OFF EVENT
    can we please have a reality check here?

    and I agree with dan on the massive gap btw 1st team and CC team players .. and that gap is far too big not to be noticed and worried about

    gazzap .. please the club owes us nothing .. are you living in dream land??
    AFC is a master in corporate comms .. they play the game the way it should be played to max revenues/profits by using us the fan as fodder
    me reckons that .. ok .. we play along with it, but the club owes us in return .. come on .. AFC is not a naive bunch of people, so we shouldnt be either

  65. From the start of the season everyone knew and was quite happy with the carling cup being the lowest priority and thus the competition we would vet the youngsters in.

    Just because we happened to meet Spurs in the semi that should not change our priorities. Of course we all want to beat them but Wenger was right to stick to his guns. In fact I think he should have played fewer first teamers but injuries and the ACN forced his hand a bit. The league has to be our number one priority

  66. jer, rightly or wrongly it did change when we got spurs in the semi final, i am sure people would be less peed off if we lost to everton. however one we should never be mauled and embarresed the way we were last night and secondly if wenger didn’t care why play any of the 1st team. the bench could have been gavin hoyte, lansbury, gibbs etc. i would have been less wound up (although ulimately i would have liked him to go for it in both legs) if he just completely said sod it. i think he totally screwed up last night. if we end up getting bendtner and ade banned which will probably happen we will be paying for this in the next few weeks.

  67. BB
    “and I agree with dan on the massive gap btw 1st team and CC team players .. and that gap is far too big not to be noticed and worried about”

    we got to the semi final with them! what other team would be able to do that with their “2nd eleven”? certainly not tottenham.

  68. dan .. agreed .. screwed up completely .. its either or .. play the young guns or dont .. whether we like it or not, we took a psychological blow from this game
    and if Ade gets banned for the headbutt, then great .. no RVP/Ade etc.. i dont think that both guys will get banned as Bendtner didnt use physical violence so he should be fine

  69. Malaysiangunner

    I am sick of hearing that people here pay good money and deserves better footbal than waht AW and the present Arsenal is playing. I agree with Danny , gazzap and Flint. You sound like a recent Manure or Chelski type of supporter. If MANURE and Chelski is doing what you think we should be doing , I think their ticket prices are lower, you can come to the logical concluson of your arguments and act on it.

    We lost and AW screwed up on the blend last night. These things happen to the best managers and it happened to MANURE despite spending a tons of cash.

    I have supported The Arsenal for the last 27 years with ups and downs and sideways, if you think this side is shite then you have not seen enough.

    We move on and we will still challenge with or without buying a CB or Left winger.

    The boys if my estimation of them is correct, will take in the best lesson they will learn this time and come out blazing.

    Losing to the Spuds in this manner hurts me like hell and I and sure they will feel our collective pain and redeem themselves.
    Up The Arse!!!!

  70. BB you are very cynical. wenger does not play the beautiful game because he wants to increase revenue for the club. it is one of his core philosophies. he beleives football should be played in a way that entertains the fans, who only follow football for entertainment reasons. try being a Bolton fan or similar and you will soon see what watching a dull team is like. Arsenal give us plenty of good football so they dont owe us anything.

    as for trophies – well the CC is a small trophy. ask me at the start of the season if I want to win the CC or if I want to be in the title chase until May and the CL semi finals and I would take the latter every single time no matter how many years we’d gone without a trophy. even a sh*t club like spurs can win the CC in a one off – it means nothing on its own, but competing at the very top, like we do, can only be done by very few teams.

    a lot of top footballers in europe have been rating Arsenal as the best team in Europe this season, certainly in terms of the style of football. we should be grateful for what we have got not for what we haven’t.

    Final point, had wenger really wanted to win the CC, he would have used his strongest line up right from the start of the season. every time we use our kids there is a risk that they could lose ie against Newcastle, Blackburn and Sheff united. if he had used his strongest team, what would it have done to our league form? injuries? tiredness?
    its easy to criticise in hindsight but I bet you were one of the fans praising the kids for their brilliant wins earlier in the tournament? I was, and Blackburn away was probably one of the highlights of the season so far.

  71. Flint McCullough

    ‘the question is how long can we go without winning anything would you be happy with top four finishes and semi final champions league every year?’

    There are plenty that would just dream of being in that position.

    We have every chance of winning trophies. The next few years could be the best ever. Just a bit of patience is needed.

    An absolutely fantastic 11 years, including 3 PLs, is not good enough for some of you. Believe me , historically this is dreamland.

    Haalem Globetrotters might be a more suitable team to follow than any football club for some of you.

  72. jer, the point being made wasn’t in reference to the CC it was in reference to what happens if we lose fabreagas, ade, flam etc for a period of time. our second lot are not competing for first team places, that leads to complacency for the first team player. tell me which reserve team player is realistically good enough to replace our first team players.

    as for the CC i am not knocking it in any shape or form because they did great, however we beat a poor newcastle team at home, away at sheff uts and blackburn (which was our best performance of ther year). you can not go to a good team like spurs (they have improved greatly under ramos) with your second team and expect to win over two legs.

  73. Dan you say.

    “jer, rightly or wrongly it did change when we got spurs in the semi final”

    That’s your opinion and a mile off. Otherwise the team would have showed no unforced changes from saturday.

    Stop over-reacting! I can wholeheartedly say I have no real interest in winning the Carling Cup. The only way for us to be successful is through the league title and possibly the Champions League.

    So cash in your chips, because you all bottled it, but I’m gonna keep playing because I still fancy this title race.

  74. … and they beat a full strength blackburn team, which the first team couldn’t even do in the league.

    dan, this result was a bit of a fluke in some ways. Though we did deserve to lose, it was a “perfect storm” of events that went against us and knocked the confidence out of us and gave it to them.

    And to agree with what most people are saying about gilberto, the biggest change Wenger could and maybe should have made last night was bringing on flamini for him.

  75. flint, i was asking a philisophical qusetion of what constitutes success nowadays. i do not agree with you when you compare to all the other teams, we are now one of the richest in the world and part of the big 4, our expectations have to be higher than the other 16 teams in the league. surely you can see that. i realize we all saw the 80’s when we were crap and boring but times have moved on and so have we. expecatations have been rightly increased and i think fans andf the club are being patient. we haven’t won anything for three years and i jsut ask is 5 years ok, or should it be 6 years. at what point does the CC or FA cup become worthwhile trying for inorder to win something. the league and CL are very hard to win and will not get any easier to win.

  76. If you blokes are going to whine about how crap Walcott, Hoyte et al are…well…what chance to they get to progress? The FA Cup? The Carling Cup?

    You have a great ‘second’ team, but they get little to no chance to play. I know it’s anathema to ‘blame Arsene’, but he IS to blame, in the same way that taking a weakened squad to Sevilla means you get to play Milan away in your CL return…with Ronaldo, Kaka and Pato charging.

    And Spurs should get credit: by the time the game finished last night, there were eight Arsenal first-team regulars on the park. You got destroyed.

  77. gazzap .. its not about the style of play .. thats the positive image of the AFC marketing arm, the friendly face that is being used to milk all the rest and I agree wholeheartedly with you that AW plays that way, irrespectively of anything else
    but there is nowadays a lot of corporate crap thrown at us supporters .. from mechandising to private TV channel .. etc
    our ticket prices are very high .. so are the food and beverage prices ..
    AFC has now become institutionalized in a way that requires the club to have constant success
    we want to be a Real/Milan/Barca type of club, then we have to live and die by the same rules..that means success..there are no 2 ways about it ..

  78. beedie .. which 8 Arsenal regulars .. sod off to your Spurs sh*thole and remember, the last time that a 5-1 was hailed as a ground breaking result heralding a new era, it ended in Sven schmusing with the FA’s secretaries .. not exactly a winning trophy parade

  79. BB

    Don’t talk twaddle.
    Ticket prices are high because of the demand.

    Simple.

    So when no one wants to see Arsene Wenger’s red and white army, they’ll go down in price.

    The fact they are high, does not mean we get to have constant success.

    Constant success is impossible.

  80. jer, i am of the old school when winning trophies and visits to wembley was what it was all about, obviously the league or CL would be better, but to say all domestic cups are not worthy of us is to me arrogant in the extreme.

    don’t kid yourself the result was not a fluke, over the two legs they were (and expectedly so as it was there first team) miles better than us. they may have scored goals at “lucky times” but we weren’t in it. walcott’s goal had a fair share of luck in it.

    bottom line is wenger didn’t and doesn’t care about the CC (and last year the FA cup as well) and all i ask is, is that correct. One of my most enjoyable days was the day at wembley when we beat liverpool 2 1 and charlie scored at the end. to me just qualifying for CL every year is a bit of a cop out, no unbridled joy with that one!!!!

  81. jer ,
    you think because ade attacked another team member that that is passion ? your a sad little man !
    It actually goes to show you what sort of team player the boy is !!

    Danny
    you imbred hick ! your delusional ! stating bollocks like winning this trophy doesn’t matter .. and crapping on about your own visions like somehow what you say people ALL agree with ! yes i will skip over your toss in future also . Because no one wants to hear trophy’s don’t matter to you !
    and then hypocritical as ever you state for me not to question your loyalty (and with statements like you don’t care if we win the CC.) Then you tell BB to support another team because you cant handle THE Fing truth ! you delusional idiot ! mention fatherhood again .. and youll get whats coming to you !

  82. The mORonACLE, your posts are garbage. I wish people would stop being tempted in by your rubbish and replying. It’s killing a good blog.

  83. BB: I don’t think I’m the only one who thinks you talk nonsense, so I won’t resort to a slanging match, other than to say that Hleb, Fabregas, Eduardo, Adebayor, Gallas, Silva, Bendtner are all pretty regular in the first team squad these days.

    Arsenal is a club that whose supporters have bragged on the quality of it’s reserves (probably only Chelsea could match them), and how they have cruised cup matches. And they have been excellent to watch, especially when they beat the physcial Blackburn side.

    I think it was pretty obvious that sooner or later, the quality dries up against a team that is some way better than them.

    Shame that you look like losing Adebayor for a few games after the FA get through with him.

  84. I feel sorry for your kids!

    To have a complete mong for a father.

  85. We lost. Badly. Shit happens. We played not really any worse than the first leg, and that was a draw. Spurs were picked to finish ahead of us this season because they have really good players. If you give possession away cheaply and don’t expose their suspect defense, they are in fact a very good team.

    What do we learn?

    1) We have to adjust to the pack hunting. I’m confident we will.

    2) The biggest difference btw this year’s team and last is the solidity of the Sagna-Toure-Gallas-Clichy back 4. They are TREMENDOUS.

    3) The biggest individual drops from first to second choice:
    a. Clichy-Traore. Isn’t it amazing how good Clichy has become? His crosses and his backtracking speed were missed.
    b. Toure/Gallas-Senderos. I’m not a Phil hater, but let’s be serious.
    c. Flamini-Gilberto. This depresses me, actually.

    These are all on the defending side of the ball. That’s where are problem was last night. It makes everyone nervous.

  86. gilberto has to go, we now have the freddie syndrom with him. every time i see him on the team sheet i cringe. love him for what he has done for us, love him even more for his magnificant attitude he is currently showing, however he is done for us and should not be playing anymore at any cost. he id not good enough at CB either to justify keeping him, i woukld rather we had a proper CB not someone to slow to run and too scared to tackle.

  87. I think we may lose Bendtner and Ade for a few games and with RVP out that is not good.

    Looks Like Theo may get a run after all!!!!!!

  88. who were these 8 first teamers? it was 3, Sagna, Gallas and Hleb. later on cesc came on when we were already losing and when we were being hammered Ade and EDS came on. just cos 6 first team players ended the game, spurs did not play anything like our first team. spurs fans can be deluded about that but when they wake up and smell the coffee they will have another 5 years of Arsenal defeats to look back on.

  89. pat
    i’ve said plenty of positive things .. but recently the G4E brigade and others are talking such toss , its hard to think about anything positive , because they keep bringing up the few negative aspects that i think need improving .. And yes keep bringing up the same old ground you will keep getting the same old responses from me !

    We have a great goalie in alumina ! however i find it disturbing that we keep getting linked to goalies and Green in particular !
    Meaning is arsene thinking of giving him the boot?

    Our midfield is 2nd to none ! i only hope that flamini finds a pen in north london soon ! Must be its the writers strike 🙂

    our defense is thin but our 1st team defense is top class . sagna – toure-gallas- clichy
    CANNOT BE FAULTED !
    But in the strike department we have been lacking now for 2 seasons , henry didn’t really fire last season and this season its pretty much the same way ! How anyone can still love ade after he HEAD BUTTED bendtner is beyond me ! ..
    Id like to call him a name – but id probably be branded a racist again ! A white man living in Thailand & i’m a racist ! Oh please ! Yes i like to surround myself with people of a differing race to myself , but i’m a racist ! Get a life readers ! you know who you are ! Marry a local girl because i like white people !!speak the language because im a racist !! HAHAHA sort of thing danny would say ! He likes to pick on Bloggers children !
    low life ..

  90. gazzup

    you havent seen denilson or diaby play in the EPL this season ???
    come on man !! get a grip !

  91. danny

    dont feel sorry for me at
    least i want my team to win !!
    reading the crap you write is unpatriotic !
    I want our team to get some much needed players
    if i get dogged by you lot , then im fine with that , but you write the most disloyal crap around and you say im the one with problems !!

    get a life !

  92. dan, i didnt say all domestic cups are not worthy of us. I just said the carling cup is the least priority, which it is to most people. Which is why we play the first team in the FA cup and allow the younger players a chance in the carling cup.

    Ethan – ha ha, a typical insulting and non-sensical post from you as always. Bendtner obviously said something to Ade, who knows what but something pretty bad I’m sure. Ade shouldn’t have reacted like that and I pray he doesn’t get a ban, but he was upset because we were losing (unlike some) and at least made a difference when he came on.

  93. BB you have joined Ethan/Oracle as one of the most ignoranant opinionated people to appear on this site. besides being rude and personally attacking other contributors.

    As you know so much why dont you join the Arsenal board of directors.

    Have you seen your idol Berbatov when the ball doesnt get played exactly as he wants? His body language says it all.

  94. yes he made a difference when he came on
    they got 2 more goals in 20 minutes ! and only 3 goals scored in the previous 70 minutes . luckily he didnt start the game or it would of been 9-0 !
    oh thats right 9-1 ! and dont talk to me about insults , i’m just firing some back at the people who shot first !

    It doesn’t matter what was said you don’t head butt any team mate its just unethical and just goes to show you how correct i was about calling him names earlier this week !
    He deserves a ban ! what are you saying ?
    thats violence on the pitch ! and your own team ?
    Maybe next week he will do it too cesc ! ..
    If you condone that sort of behavior it only goes to show my the type of scruples you have !

  95. ethan .. Denilson is not a regular player in the EPL this season .. he was last season, but not this one
    as for bashing ade about the incident, lets first find out what happened..Bendtner has a reputation to be arrogant .. but if we get nabs for this and we dont buy, then you can write off the league immediately and then we will all congratulate ourselves for another trophyless season where we “overachieved” with our youngsters whilst at the same time, getting bombarded by corporate marketing about how rich/successful..etc the club is .. no disrespect, but Danny teams like Milan/Real etc live under the obligation of delivering constant success
    and we are/want to be part of that club of super teams..so lets abide by the same rules

  96. solgooner

    i actually used to like you on another blog ..
    yes you knew me from the past ! but you’ve turned into an a$$ now ! maybe you should not talk so loudly about berbatov least he doesn’t head butt jenas ! BB has an opinion that isnt the same as yours
    , get a life i have to read a lot of non subscribing views of the delusional bloggers here ! and i cop more bullshit than i give out ! so think about it before you take a ticket !

  97. sol goon

    besides being rude ??

    and then you call me Ethan/Oracle as one of the most ignoranant opinionated people

    im not ignorant ( because i can spell it !@ )
    and its OPINION ! blogging is opinion !
    NOT TRY TO CHANGE PEOPLES OPINION !
    you dont like it dont read it !!!

    simple !!

  98. BB,

    Cesc was played in every game since he was 16 years and some odd days, because he was more than good enough to play with the likes of TH14, Viera, Peres and so on….Walcott and the like, although players with potential but they are showing they are not good enough yet to play in every game.

    We can go ahead and play them in every game, but our season will be a training season, like the last and the one before.

    I do agree, that Gallas looked as old as Gilberto and playing next to Toure saves him a lot.

    G4E

  99. BB
    nothing excuses violence on the pitch !
    i dont care even if its a racist comment .
    there should not be any physical contact at this level of football ! These players are paid too well to act like that even to an opposing team !

    i wouldn’t mind if they head butted jenas < and preferably before the 8th minute 🙂
    but your own team mate ?, it has only happened 3 times in history !

    And everyone was frustrated by the game , oh except for danny who wanted to lose because he love the kids playing .. there are a few others too who were happy that we lost ! but danny is the preacher of the philosophy ..

  100. jer,

    i am not sure that now a days there is such a big difference between the CC and FA, the top four are winning both now evry year. in the past few years wenger has certainly not taken the FA cup seriously either (he threw it last year as well) and has this year already said he is not sure what he will do about it. last night weneger again said his priorities are the CL an PL. as a fan i find that unacceptable and will be livid if we do not have our full team out on saturday. again only one team can win europe and the league and we can not rely on just one of those two every year.

  101. and yes your right denilson played more last season.
    He, like diarra is a casualty of flaminis good form ,
    and like i said to pat .. He had better sign ! because we have driven gilberto into retirement , stopped denilson and diarra from progressing ! Then he will go and leave at the end of the season for more money . And leave us holding the bag ! I tell ya it will happen , he is probably worth over 10 million to buy ,
    or juve can give him 55k a week for 4 years and still be ahead . or he could stay at AFC for about 30+K . and be trapped for 5 years .. I alway put myself in the position of the player .. and Money is a huge incentive !

    id love to have pats faith in the matter but signing is taking toooooooo long .. i fear the worst .

  102. “we want to be a Real/Milan/Barca type of club, then we have to live and die by the same rules..that means success..there are no 2 ways about it ..”

    No we don’t. We can be better. We can avoid being fickle. You can be the good things without the bad. It’s called progress, improvement. We don’t have to be asking for a title or else we’ll burn the stadium every season to be a good, big club. If some spoilt fans do it we should learn from it and don’t. It’s as simple as that. We have to be demanding in other aspects, such as keeping the club sane and honest. (defending from the likes of Usmanov, etc.)

  103. We made the same mistake last year when we pulled in a number of 1st teamers into the CC semis and final.

    if the CC is an opportunity for youngsters to get some experience – then fine, let us get people like Randall and Lansbury in and see how they fare. If we lose, even a 10-0 loss, I wouldnt give a toss.

    However, fielding a side that has so many first teamers in it and THEN losing 5-1 – that is a debacle.

    Fine, it is only the CC but I worry about the effect of this defeat on morale. If we beat newcastle next, we will be back on track. If not – last years catastrophe when we went out of all cups in the space of a few weeks – may happen again.

    We are short of CB’s and this is something that needs to be addressed quickly, even if this has a determintal effect on Hoyte and Senderos.

  104. G4E .. we agree on this one .. Cesc played every game .. he was probably precocious, but he was also supported through thick and thin by AW .. no I dont want Theo to play every game, but players like Denilson look far from match fit nowadays
    they are regressing fast .. I dont have a solution for this .. it clearly aint good for the boys either
    a club of AFC status should and must focus on partially developing talent, but also buy properly fit and developed football players such as Sagna who then fit into the team easily
    Diarra saw it coming and left .. others will do the same and so they should
    but right now we have no cover as centreback, no cover if the Flam man hits the ground and with Ade likely to get banned, no cover up front ..f*kking great .. why did AW bother bring Ade/Dudu on when we are 4-0 down
    it beggars belief

  105. Ethan:

    Yesterday I said this, quoting you:

    Oh, the wonders of having an archive in blogs’ comments.

    Ethan, read yourself a few months ago:

    “if all you people cannot see our days are numbered , your more 1 eyed than objective !!!!
    It matters little because after this season and loosing the CL spot we will not be able to command transfers of ESTABLISHED TOP TALENT , because who would come ?? ETO ?
    why would he ?
    I know the reason arsene isnt commiting his future.. its pretty obvious to me .. this is a lab experiment gone hidiously wrong ..

    BUY players NOW or suffer the wrath of this slow slide downwards!”

    We had already bought Eduardo and Sagna when you said this if I’m not mistaken. So we had the same squad. Your excuse doesn’t work. You were seriously mistaken. Admit it.

    And you answered saying that I was mistaken, that we hadn’t bought Sagna and Eduardo when you said that. Well, surprise, surprise: I was not. This quote is from when the season had already started!!! And you were saying we were doomed to go down the hill when we already had points in the bag.

    But wait, there’s more. You now say:

    “But i was more right than wrong .. thats the reason people dislike me and the truth !”

    You couldn’t have been more wrong. You call yourself the oracle and predict doom and gloom for Arsenal for… a year? i don’t know, but you just haven’st stopped since you first came here. And yet, when the club does exceptionaly well and improves dramatically from the previous season you say you were more right than wrong even after you are quoted saying the club would go downhill and no one would be able to stop it.

    You are only ridiculing yourself.

  106. dan .. I hear AW states as his priorities CL and EPL .. so this is the reason why he played a second string side in Prague and away to Sevilla with the results we know .. ie we face Milan instead of ..lets say fenerbahce who are playing Sevilla .. sometimes I wonder what goes on in AW’s mind .. there does not seem a lot of consistency
    same as mixing his team up for the CC and then bring Ade/Dudu on when we are 4-0 down . bloody useless

  107. Ethan, you are a big fat liar and you always change the facts to make it appear you are right.

    Go back to yesterday’s posts from me and you and Nacho. Read them again very well and try to open up your retarded mind and retain what was said.

    You say I’m rude and you’re the rudest person I ever spoken to. I’m using this kind of language with you, because you are tunnel vision retard and it appears this is the only language you understand.

  108. dan
    only one team can win europe and the league and we can not rely on just one of those two every year.

    that precisely my point ! a bird in the hand !
    Like i said on the previous blog, we were 180 minutes away from a trophy ! but with the typical danny style comments it baffles me why he supports our club ?
    or people write off the C.C . i mean arsene has won the F.A cup A lot . And surely arsene is hungry to at least win it once !??!?!?!?!?!

    id rather be out of the F.A and win last night !
    at least we could get a crack at chevski without drogba ,essien etc..! We could have taken down chevski ! im sure !

  109. sorry nacho cant be bothered reading your crap !
    dont waste your time ..

  110. same goes for you G4E ..
    maybe you and nacho can get a room ! 🙂

  111. BB, unfortunately this is what happens when you have many many young talented players in the squad and youth teams. If we start buying established players in every position it will mean that those young players will either not come to us or they will start leaving us which is already happening.

    You are right, it’s a problem I don’t know what the solution for, but we can’t have it both ways. You either only buy established players a la Man Ure or Chelski and forget about your youth system, or you try to mix the two.

  112. I will say this to both you and nacho , you both go very far to prove me wrong .. keep going it only proves to me what plonkers you both are !

    I aint reading your stuff anymore ..
    so dont waste your keyboard pounding !
    a lot of people think the same about me , because of you 2 !

    grow up ! BB is saying the same stuff as me yet you still target me !!

    do it all you want .. i aint reading your crap anymore ..

  113. i agree that being 90 minutes from a wembley final is worth more effort than being in the 4th round and needing to win 4 games to get to the final. it doesn’t make a huge amount of sense to me. football is about confidence and going on good runs etc wenger has said it many times before. losing is never good and nothing good could have come about from last nights game.

  114. You can’t be bothered reading it because it shows how you’ve been predicting crap and were wrong all the time and now come back to predict more crap saying you’re always more right than wrong, even using the nickname “the oracle”. So you avoid it because there’s no way you can answer it without admiting you were wrong, and may be wrong now also. And you just can’t do that, because your ego seems to be the size of Ashburton Grove.

  115. That doesn’t mean I will not swat every pessimistic idea you plague this blog with Ethan.

  116. Actually Nacho, it’s the size of Old Trafford….one of the clubs he’s in love with.

  117. G4E .. me thinks we have too many young guys around .. it would probably be wiser to focus on a couple of guys like Barca does with Bojan and Giovanni and push them hard
    you can see already that we are loaning the foreigners out to Spain
    Glenn Roeder is quoted as looking forward to AFC going out of the CC so he can get loan deals done for some of our youngsters
    and ManU still develop talent .. but only exceptionnaly good talent that they have to pay a lot of money for..
    we take on too much of the unknown variety and then end up in a cul-de-sac with the guys
    maybe a 75/25 % focus on experience versus youth would at this stage of AFC be preferable to the other way round
    ethan .. I get a lot of stick too for disagreeing with the monolithic thought police brigade..

  118. Yes dan dead right

    Wembley win lose or draw w/- penalties would of been a big boost for the club .. To read peoples opinion that they just use the C.C to breed youngsters is very disrespectful to the trophy , i feel alot of it is to do with pacifying the youngsters.
    And a lot of these youngsters simply aren’t good enough currently .

  119. The difference BB, is in few years time you end up with a huge number of players all at one time and costed you peanuts. This was the startegy since we started building our great staduim and did not have lots of money to splash around.

    Now, since we do have the money…it’s a matter of principle sell all those young players and start buying established ones or continue with what seems to be a great strategy?

  120. Oracle you have appeared here from out of the blue, and you dont make constructive criticism, every one is entitled to an opinion, biut all these remarks like get a life, or you need a brain transplant are completely uncalled for.

    I feared before this game that if we lost it would cause massive dissention and thats whats happening although we have 27 more points than them in the EPL. in this January window there are very few good players around, sure we need a good CB and thats Micah Richards BUT, he wouldnt come to AFC to sit on the bench, and unless we sell Gallas in the summer we wont be able to get him.

    I do agree with you that Keith Edelman has made ludicrous statements that we are the richest club etc. and that we have lots of money and yet in the bond issue we were limited to 9 million nett spend. so how can we buy all the superstars?

    You cant compare us with Real Madrid they get 110 million each year Just for tv rights.

  121. Lame excuse….only clubs deprived of trophies like the Chelsks, Spuds and the like care about the CC.

  122. my other question of the day is how many times does it take wenger to play diaby left midfield for him to realize that he can not play there. i know he feels he needs to keep players happy, but diaby is simply a fish out of water on the left. i really feel for diaby because he is utterly useless everytime he plays and his confidence (like walcotts who also plays out of position most games) must be shot.

  123. G4E, chelsea starved for trophies!!!! since we last one something they have won the league twice, FA cup and CC, what the hell are you smoking!!!! (forget how they won it or the money spent).

  124. G4E .. thats the ideal scenario .. not necessarily the one unfolding in front of our eyes right now
    in fact, there is dissent among the young players too now
    they all seem to hold that sacred belief that they are good enough to request a 1st team spot .. thats unrealistic ..maybe we oversell our club when we get them in too.. broken promises .. we heard that song not so long ago .. just beware

  125. Leave Ethan alone.
    He’s very upset today due to the death of Heath Ledger. They we’re very close ever since Ethan played his stunt double in Brokeback Mountain.

  126. the problem is we dont really have a left winger, and since he’s unlikely to put Diaby in the middle instead of flam and cesc, its either on the wing or on the bench. I agree it doesn’t suit him, and if he was going to adapt himself to the role as wenger would like, i think he would have done it by now.

    I think that is an area we need to invest in in the summer, or maybe Vela will fill the role. Until then, who else when Rosickys not around? Eduardo? he’s much more effective up front I think

  127. Dan, of course forget everthing else…..But are you comparing Chelski’s trophy chest to Arsenal’s?

    They haven’t won trophies for 50 years dude. They just started, you counted 4 or 5 trophies in how many years? a 100 years?

    Now what are you smoking?

  128. thanks Dan for keeping people within their limits .. its absurd .. I wonder sometimes what some of our supporters have in their brain .. probably not much

  129. yes BB
    but dont worry about them , there criticism of us is because they know we speak an element of truth .
    I really have given up on the one- eyes this week !
    but its people like you dan etc. who give me hope that soon we will see some changes brought about
    due to this inconsistency that so clearly hits us in the face and yet obscures others …

    and i do agree with arsene most of the time with his player choices ! But a club like us with a stadium like us should be trying harder to create the space between the up and coming manc’s and arguably evertons etc.. We are in the box seat
    as far as getting world class players to fill the ranks as against ,arsene using the EPL to blood the odd star and then sell them off if they dont make the grade .. Good from the owners cash flow perspective , but from a fans point of view its beyond frustrating !

    for every cesc we manufacture there are 2
    Jeremie’s that take up precious places at the club.
    Who we eventually sell , Get a top class first 11
    then buy the vela’s and the sunu’s

    Arsene sometimes gets winners like sagna – hleb and rosicky i dont know why he is still concentrating on buying youth.
    (other than for profit)..
    Send theo on loan and maybe bendtner too ! if we loose them so be it .. but with the cash buy a player that fits our style and is up to the challenge !
    and just get rid of jens and gilberto , certain lunatics think gilberto can play CD , i think yesterdays game proved me right again !

  130. Dublgun

    you sick puppy , but thanks for the sympathy vote 🙂

  131. ethan .. Gilberto CAN play CB .. for the over 50s

  132. BB, I think yesterday’s result is a good reality check for those young players…..to play in the EPL and Arsenal, you have to be a class above the rest. Teaches them Patience?? Teaches them that no other manager or club in the world playes 18 & 19 year olds and they still have the chance to make it earlier than playing for any other club.

  133. Perhaps we can stick to the facts for the game last night, we were poor. The blame lies at the feet of the Manager and the players, end of story. No one on this blog is perfect nor are the players and whilst I do personally think Wenger is close he isn’t quite there 🙂
    I am disappointed to see personal attacks, I don’t like everyone’s opinion and yet they have a right to voice them (within acceptable limits). If you find yourself disagreeing and cannot reply in a civilised manner then just hold your tongue. This blog is not a domain for trash talking.

  134. yes .. but we might have created false expectations .. these players are by and large better off staying at their respective clubs .. think of Diaby .. he would have become a regular at auxerre in his favorite position .. great for him .. and we would have been able to buy a player as accomplished as Sagna .. ready to be used
    yes, we had no money before and we had to forcefeed ourselves with youngsters.. but we should stop now .. we are saturated .. we cant cope with it anymore .. it has become an obsession .. and its also good for the other clubs as they keep their young players until a decent age.. Platini is not completely wrong on this !!
    but I see that from a commercial point of view, thats where the money is .. buy young and sell for a mega profit .. same way that Cesc will be sold in the non too distant future .. you mark my words .. and when will we ever win trophies again??

  135. dan
    wengers fatal mistake is trying to convert players
    to differing roles , he did it to toure and everyone patted him on the back , he did it with TH14 -who could probably play well as a goalie 🙂 , Then he tries to play theo at his young age in a midfield role and his confidence is shot, then you have the one – eyes here calling for his head! He finally gets his chance yesterday in a brutal game with a brutal crowd , and HUGE Must win pressure on him, its a recipe for failure for the lad!

    I only hope we recovers , because we can all see he has talent , even more so that cesc at the same age .. But wenger just cant get to grips that he is a striker !! And an apprenticeship on the wing is just counter productive !

  136. G4E, stop talking about the past football is about now. what i am saying is that we haven’t won anything for three years and to say that winning the CC is a waste of time and is irrelevant and not worth going for is ridiculous, as a football club you want to win things. currently chelsea are winning things every year and if abromovich never came they wouldn’t have won anything for another 50 years, but so what that is also irrelevant. as it stands they win things every year at the moment and we don’t and personally call me an idiot but i would like a day out at wembley and see us win a trophy or two whatever they may be.

    i really don’t understand how fans can come on here and say only certain trophies are worth winning!!! and then they say it is realists that are leaving in cloud cuckoo land and expect too much and should support utd. i am realsitic enough to know that top 4 is a must, a good european run to the quarter / semi finals is good and some good domestic cup runs and hopefully a final or two is where we currently are at.

    jer, i know why wenger plays him there as we have no left winger an area we should have strengthened in the summer and even more so now knowing that diaby can not do any sort of job there. obviously that is not going to happen however and lets hope rosicky doesn’t get seriously injured.

  137. BB

    110% agree with your comments below!

    . and we would have been able to buy a player as accomplished as Sagna .. ready to be used
    yes, we had no money before and we had to forcefeed ourselves with youngsters.. but we should stop now .. we are saturated .. we cant cope with it anymore .. it has become an obsession ..

    YES fill the gaps with TOP CLASS PLAYERS In positions we are lacking in .., arsene has done well with limited resources in the past but with the emirates
    in action almost 2 years , we have the cash flow ,
    and you know wenger ! he will always sell the player to re-coup the money .. So no fear of
    the megalomaniacs on this site to SAY YES ETHAN JUST SPEND IT ALL ! what bollocks !!!
    you know arsene NEVER loses money on a player ,
    quite often he makes money on players .. look at diarra ! bought 4 months ago for 2 mil , sell for close to 6 mil !
    So if this war chest does exsist Use the money
    then sell the players like he usually does to equal the books !!! after we have got a GREAT SQUAD .
    Send some youngsters out on loan ! as against letting them sit half a year on the bench and everyone is happy .. apart from 1/2 the bloggers here !
    🙂

  138. none of Diaby, Eboue or Walcott are acceptable wingers. Eboue can do a job but I would not go any further than that. he is not a good winger for a top 3 club and CL chasing club. I stand by that. I know vela will come in the summer but given our lack of wingers I still feel we need one more unless either Gibbs or Randall are close but on recent evidence they are not.
    perhaps once Vela is here we wont have an issue with wingers, but centre backs are still an issue. we have the numbers but not the quality after old man Gallas and Toure.

  139. I think everybody who loves the club should just doff their cups to ramos and his nags.He out foxed wenger and the team executed.whoopee! everybody suffers defeat. it hurts.we took a hiding many a team have recieved at our hands and that has only strengthened their resolve to mete one back. the next time we meet the spuds is the day they take one. simple.we are all human, manager and all.just the sort of humbling experience to focus tiring minds to the enormity of task at hand. up the arsenal.

  140. toronto, well said, thank you —

    Frankly, I can’t just shrug my shoulders at last night’s result. I can move on but I do it with quite a lot of difficulty. I don’t buy into this “oh it’s just the CC, it’s meaningless.” Football players and football fans want to win EVERYTHING. Getting to the final would’ve helped further build momentum to the season, built confidence. A CC trophy win would’ve been a huge shot in the arm to the club, esp. for a trophy AW’s never won.

    I do agree that it’s better to lose in the CC than in the league and I can therefore handle it better. But since this was against Spurs–and a thrashing at that–the psychological effect on fans is simply not the same as losing out to, say, Everton or Blackburn. I imagine that the effect on the players is not much better.

    Clearly there are problems within the squad and AW has to do something serious, and soon. A fight between teammates on Spurs homeground is a disgrace — I can’t imagine any of AW’s previous teams doing this. Then there’s Flamini’s endless contract negotiations…

    This is not a major disaster by any means and the team has achieved far, far more than most fans ever expected. But it’s clear that for a couple of months now that they’ve lost their consistent fluency and team cohesion from the first half of the season. The ACN, injuries, player complacency and unhappiness at team selection, a drop in form have all come to a head. I still believe we can win the league with this team but AW and his players need to really organize themselves quickly.

    I don’t believe the CL is at all realistic for us this season. The FA cup? One can dream of doing the double, but frankly I’m just realistic enuf to hope for the league and be satisfied with that.

  141. i certainly agree about playing walcott up front last night was always likely to end in tears and was a poor decision, his confidence is on the floor already and even the fans who have been so supportive have started to lose patience with him, a loan period would certainly be a good idea.

    i aslo agree that arsenal youngsters seem to have the attitude that they must have it all now. wenger has put himself in this position first out of neccessity as we had no cash and now by choice. i am not sure why 19 and 20 year olds unless fantatsic ie a fabregas should be demanding first team football. last night for example i would have played clichy, with lennon there, traore awful against burnly and spurs and having diaby in front of him, to me clichy was a mus, yet wenger thought this 18 year old kid should play. i admire wengers attitude and giving them the oppurtunity but at some point we have to do what’s best for the team and last night’s team selection clearly was not in the clubs best interests.

  142. very well put marcus

  143. Dan no point to speak to G4E
    he is too think to comprehend !
    he would rather marvel at the club making profits.
    Than actual recognition of what football is about to begin with !!!

    WINNING THINGS !

    Dont kid yourself that these cups aren’t worth
    winning !!!, thats wengers warped mentality speaking,
    He is using them as a breeding ground to blood youth , maybe if we won the EPL or C.L i would agree a little !!!! But currently lets start WINNING WAYS AGAIN !!!

    some people cant get it even if you hit them in the head with it dan !!!
    waste of time

    cant win… dont try !

  144. yes , i thought we would play a stronger line up !
    which was a little satisfying to me , as it proved to me wenger silently wanted this ! Which is a start.

    But like BB or someone said , either play all youth
    or play the 1st team !!!
    It was a cop out to see this patchwork quilted line up.
    And to bring in ade and dudu after 4 nil down ?!
    WHAT WAS HE THINKING ???

    horse has already bolted rings to mind !
    just leave them for the 4th round !
    A better mentality would of been to start them and once we were ahead take them off !
    They would of played the same minutes or even less if G4E’s boy ADE did the damage !
    he could of head butted all the spurs player before 1/2 time also ! 🙂

  145. Ethan, BB, G4E and Dan,

    Lets work on agreeing to disagree and not start name calling. I would suggest that we are not all 5 years old and thus might want to try using some of the wisdom gained from our years in life. Doesn’t matter who started it or didn’t, just leave it at the door.

  146. By the way, I have been to Thailand, lovely place. Everyone seemed very friendly, would like to have seen less Man Utd shirts however and a few more Arsenal.

    Toronto is starting to come around with more Arsenal gear on the streets 🙂

  147. toronto, i have never called anyone any name.

  148. apologies Dan, was shifting through posts fast!

  149. Marcus well put !
    IF we arnt in it to win it then drop out in the 1st round
    and save our resources ! Thats the mentality of most here ! totally absurd notion , which ive given up trying to reason with , Then you get called mentally retarded because you want to see the club succeed.
    And they resign themselves to mediocrity .
    We are a club with a rich winning mentality !
    Recently we needed to go thru a transitional phase,
    but looking at the annual report we are over it !

    Wenger wants the C.L , i said 2 or 3 days ago i saw hour long interview were toure quoted,
    mr wenger wants us to focus on the C.L title .
    That is our focus this year !

    Im sorry but we cant even win the C.C so what chance have we against milan ? or the next round ! , sorry if we want to compete with the likes of real – barca – man U our squad needs more depth than that !!!
    We cant rely on these youngsters !
    it isnt fair to them !

  150. I’m glad you agree you can’t win your false arguments. If there was anything wrong with Wenger and his policies he would be long gone. The fact that he is 11 years into his reign tells it all.

    99.9% of Arsenal fans know he is doing the right thing…0.01% don’t agree, too bad for you….you can argue till your mouth swell, you are not going to win this argument.

    the 0.01% will not win over 99.9%, simple.

  151. And….to say that we were not in it to win it….is a huge lie…this was the Semi-Final, we reached the Semi Final, and we were in the final last year of the CC playing with the same players and with the same mentality.

    Talk about defeating your own arguments.

  152. I personally think we’ll push Milan very close, they play our type of football in as much as they like to push forward. Their defense is aging and with Kaka apart they lack creativity in the middle of the park.

    Ethan, whilst I agree in part about the youngsters the fact remains they have to be blooded and why not the CC. I ceratinly wouldn’t suggest that because we got dumped out of the CC last night we have no chance against Milan, do you really believe that?

  153. Toronto

    im fine with that , im just ignoring those types ..
    Its pretty frustrating to get constantly bashed thou
    for just an opinion !!!!

    and trash talking about families are just plain below the belt !!!
    yup thailand has the best weather on earth !
    and the nicest people ! maybe not the ones running the country but the people here love their football !
    And yes a lot of man U support here, everyone loves winners ! its a shame arsenal couldn’t take over that mantle ! as its a huge revenue !
    And with the recipe of wenger plus huge cash flow its achievable .

  154. Toronto

    I believe it , if we cant get some confidence back !
    Wengers rotation policy recently has been as crazy as raffa’s in all honesty .

    can you explain why we would bring on dudu and ade at the 65 minute mark and 4 goals down ??
    im not sure if wenger just wanted a consolation goal
    but if he was trying to turn the game those changes needed to be made at the 1/2 !!!

    Ade head butting bendter ??
    gallas going off his face at everyone !
    i feel unless we start focusing on the fundamentals of the game that got us here to begin with , we will be hard pressed to make any dent in the C.L this season !
    we fell away in jan . last season too !
    thats what i base my claims on ..

  155. Toronto,

    I’m not sure if you’re new here or not, but I suggest you go back a few weeks to see that the person crying wolf above is the one that starts calling people Nazi’s, gimps, fascists, whipping stick and all the racist names you can imagine when he gets defeated in his own arguments.

    I started using his language, because it seems he understands nothing else.

  156. Toronto .. the CC is not enough to groom players .. in Spain, the reserve team is allowed to play in the upper divisions.. in Germany, there is a reasonably strong amateur league and they can even participate in the German cup
    its not a surprise that the ONLY player that came through is Cesc because he was CONSTANTLY played in EVERY game even sacrificing PV4 in the process
    Denilson was a much much better player last season, so was Diaby, Hoyte developed last season because he played a lot, albeit from a very poor level of ability
    its also better for the guys to stay in their home country .. these are young kids without much of an education .. not easy to cope..also AW wants technically accomplished guys..not sure you get that when you loan them out in England
    dont believe all the spin that AFC puts on its youngsters.. we are no saints when it comes to getting these guys over with offers of a bit more money, etc..
    listen to what Platini has to say .. its not so black and white as Yogi wants to portray it on this blog
    a guy you can buy 2day is Nasri as he’s accomplished for his age .. but a lot of the guys we buy are still far far behind the curve
    ok .. now keep the boys we got as much as we should if they are good enough, but please dont go and push the system further
    we need easily adjustable experienced guys to play SUCCESSFULLY, IE WINNING TROPHIES alongside the likes of the G14 clubs that we strive to emulate financially and marketing wise

  157. Hi G4E,

    I am not new here have read the blog for a while and it is my favourite, I think YW does a great job of analysing the game(s) and putting forth his opinions. Like I mentioned and I am not here to apportion any blame, but not everything we see or hear it something we like, condone or sympathise with but we responsible for our own actions. If we can all just move on then it would be to the benefit of everyone that reads the blog. I am not pointing fingers because we can all get stressed and annoyed by things but in the grand scheme of things does it really matter that must? We all share the love of Arsenal, though our opinions vary the pursuit is the same.

    Ethan,

    I don’t see it in the same fashion as you. I think that Manchester United without doubt are the masters of marketing their product. The influx of manc supporters grew hugely after the tragic events of the Munich disaster. Rightly, many people got behind the team in those tragic days and the support swelled with the out pouring of emotion. The club has since used those huge number of supporters to get to the fore front of commercial interests, long before any of the others really jumped on the band wagon and thus they stand over us all with regard to their commercial activities world wide. I mean they just jetted off for a game in the middle east, a testimonial for a player I don’t even know… it wasn’t because they love him. But, you are right the success breeds better branding.

    I am eager for the Milan tie, I feel we are equipped to make a show of it and going in as under dogs is a nice tag to have. We haven’t been at our best of late, but then either has every other team in the league, heavens, imagine being a Liverpool supporter 🙂 there are a lot of worse things to fear than a poor CC tie against the old rivals.

  158. G4E, if wenger wanted to win the semi final he would not have changed his entire first team and play all his reserve players, you do not try and win games by not playing your best players. the arsenal players knew it, the spurs players knew it. EVERYONE knew before, during and after last night’s game that wenger didn’t care about the result. of course he would like to win, but he certainly didn’t try to win. i can not believe you think he tried to win it.

  159. somedays I go to work and give 100%, but for some reason, not everything I attempt comes off. It pisses me off but I console myself that I can think about how I could improve my perfromance and approach and try again tomorrow. I think I’m fairly consistent at work and deliver to a high standard but those few days when nothing goes right are annoying. Fortunately, I have the support of a good manager who understands and supports me and over the long term I am improving with a good future

    Spurs fans reading this lot of shit will be killing themselves. Calm down

  160. and before you mention last year, this spurs team are much better than last year and we had better players playing last year. and if that is not enough the first leg should have shown us that the same arsenal team were going to be out of their depth again in the 2nd leg. i would also say that learning form last year where our season fell apart in 12 days wenger may have tried harder this year.

  161. And why would he change dan? he reached the final last year with the same players…and after we played Chelski’s first team off the park we lost only due to experience and physical strength.

    He has been doing this for 11 years in the CC, and no one said anything…why all of a sudden now it’s a huge mistake?

    When we were winning EPL titles & FA cups you were happy not to win the CC, but now you don’t?

  162. BB, I am not naive to think we don’t walk those blurred lines between the acceptable pursuit of a player and the not so acceptable. The difference as it stands is, and whether you like it or not, if they haven’t signed a professional contract you are allowed to sign them (obviously talking about the young players). The tactics of Real and other teams that tap players through the media is not quite the same, but perhaps blurred lines again? may be but the truth is that they are tapping up not doing anything more than trying unsettle players! Look at the Ronaldo pursuit? or Barca coming out about Hleb?

    The CC is one of the only areas we can use younger players, if that is unfortunate so be it but we cannot change the structure of the domestic competition. I think it would be great to see an Arsenal B side entered in to the lower Divisions and thus ply their trade. The fact is that it won’t happen. What would happen if they got promoted to the Premiership? Would it be within the rules to deign them access to the Prem? Could it ever be a possibility to have 3 Chelsea, 3 Manc’s and 3 Arsenal teams all in the same division… I’m think no 🙂 I seem to remember a few years back something with Ajax where the A & B teams were to meet… anyone else have a better take on that?

    Wenger is doing what he can, like I said he isn’t perfect and mistakes happen whether in the play, the development or the purchase price… still we seem to do pretty well on the sale price 🙂

  163. them yids are just more desperate to win a micky mouse cup then us!!

    up a yids wifes arse!!

  164. The same Manager that won 3 EPL titles & 4 FA cups is still there, he got us those titles and I have no doubts he can do it again.

    I understand every one’s fear we may not win anything but we are not far off at all. On a good day no other team plays the kind of football we play…we need to support the same players to win titles now.

    It is hard to please every one and that’s a fact of life. If we play gritty and win, people say we played crap, if we play awesome football and don’t win, people say what’s the use of awesome football?

  165. G4E, you hit the nail on the head!!!!!! we are no longer winning the league and FA cups therefore we need to try and win what we can. i could not have said it better myself.

  166. Toronto .. my main point is that we sell these young players a partial hoax .. we cant develop all these guys with the competitions at our disposal and this at the same time.. thats my main argument .. its not so much about tapping up .. as if these guys didnt know each other anyway
    what started as a necessity to a certain degree due to financial constraints should not end up as a monolithic way of running a club
    and I agree, AW never cared about winning yday, but he didnt want to lose either .. hence the botched formation and the strong bench
    it was an error of judgement
    so was his tactics against Slavia and Sevilla ..
    also winning trophies breeds winers .. not eternal second bests congratulated for their unique style
    there is too much self glorification around on this board

  167. I would give 10 CCups away for one EPL title…no one mentions CC titles when they talk about clubs….how many league titles Real Madrid won, do you know? but I bet you would know how many CL titles they won.

  168. G4E, football is not that simple that you can forgo one trophy for another!!! successful teams are winning things on a regular basis not once in a decade. would you rather be a blackburn fan?

  169. G4E .. right, but its not as if we are in contention every year to win the EPL or the CL!!!!!!!!
    get a bloody reality check

  170. Haha Dan, that’s funny now you comparing Arsenal to Blackburn?

  171. We have never in our history won as many titles as in Wenger’s reign so I would be very careful before comparing Arsenal to signle trophy clubs like Blackburn….That is a joke mate, thank you for making me laugh.

  172. BB
    You are right it’s not every year we are in contention, just 9 out of 11. He took two years out to dismantle and rebuild a new team. We are now back in contention

  173. i am not comparing the two, you said you would rather win 1 PL title and do nothing else, i would rather be winning things regularly but that is just my opinion.

  174. jamie i am not sure you can say it’s the league or a cup again it doesn’t work like that.

  175. Dan
    you’ve lost me. I was talking about the league. 8 out of 10 years we have been in the top two and this year we are sitting pretty

  176. what i meant was even if you are challenging for the league in my opinion that doesn’t mean you say everything else doesn’t matter, we still need to try and win what we can, especially as we haven’t won anything for a few years. league wise we are doing amazingly well and certainly better than i thought we would. (i do think however that utd will be too strong at the end). if that does happen and we finish 2nd or 3rd wouldn’t it be nice if we had a final to go to.

  177. Dan don’t disagree, my point was to counter the argument that we are not in regular contention for the league. It’s only the last 2 years whilst the team has been rebuilt.

    Your argument is sound but, being devil’s advocate, I’d rather win 2 league titles every 10 years than a cup 8 out of 10. And that includes the cash cow that is the wrongly named champions league. It’s another cup

  178. now your changing your percentages!!!!! bottom line is for me we need to always win what we can and to go in to games trying to win and no one can say we did that last night. obviously the fact that is was spurs and we got hammered have made the feelings all the more bitter than had it been someone else.

    i also do not like wenger’s arrogance of what is worth playing for and what is not, as fans and those who paid to go last night we should expect the best possible and we didn’t get it.

  179. i hope you at least agree with me that saturday is a huge game and one we must play with our strongest team and destroy them.

  180. Dan
    I think you are confusing me with G4E with the%. I agree, attempting to win every game is important for team morale and discipline. Without taking anything away from Spurs, the problem last night was complacency. We thought all we had to do was turn up

    My memory isn’t what it was, but I thought their performance was the best of any team against us this year. Ramos is on the right tracks, but so are we

  181. sorry you right, he was one in 10 years. i do not think last night was about complacency, it was that wenger didn’t care and sent out a team that realistically was always going to lose against a pumped up, rejouvintated spurs whose entire 9 years of frustration was about to be blown away. the writing was so on the wall and the team selected in my opinion was like sending the lambs to the slaughter. i know i sound contradictory but as i said earlier if we were going to throw it i wouldn’t have played any of the 1st team. if they were there i would have played them from the start not have them sitting on the bench.

  182. You’re right for saturday Dan,

    We’ll be facing a little bit of the Keegan factor and need to get right on top of them.

    If it was a straight choice, I’d take the win on tuesday as the most important with the Premiership finely balanced.

    But a win on saturday will help the side on Tuesday. These two games are crucial, but my point is that they would have been crucial had we just beaten Spurs.

    They’re in quick succession and that should give us an idea why Wenger has to be careful to how much he committs to the Carling Cup.

    Two wins in a row and a bad result for our squad players in the Carling Cup can be forgotten.

  183. dan…

    i don’t think it is possible for any club to chase all four trophies… the level of competition has greatly increased….

    fatigue sure does play a factor… and thats where a club has to prioritize .. and wenger has said that the league and the cl is the priority..

    i would love to see arsenal get all the four trophies.. but really do you think it is possible??

  184. ck, i agree and if this was april and we had to pick and choose i would agree, but it is january, our 1st team players have played 3 games in 21 days. (west ham/brum/ fulham) and i think we need to start getting some momentum back. as per last year the season can crumble very quickly. look how strong chelsea’s team is tonight, they want to win it. if the argument is that our squad can not handle it then it is time to dip in to that nice wad of unused cash we are stashing in the bank collectinging interest.

    no team will win all four but i would like to see us competeing for them all for as long as possible. face it we are unlikely to win the CL or PL this year.

  185. ck, also where does it stop, wenger threw the FA cup last year and when the CL starts again he will probably throw it again this year. at that point would you be unhappy? is the CL and PL the only things that matter to you?

  186. With apologies to Claytus the slack jawed yokel of Simpsons fame:

    Haw !

    Ma name is Ethen Whooner, I am from memphas tennassee.

    Cognitive reasoning ? I da know know wot dat is .

    I as a very very high opinian of what it is that I think . What that this means is that whenever I says something that turns out to be rite I make a big point of saying that it was like I told you so it was gonna be that way so as it makes youse all know dat I is rite .

    I does not need 2 fink what it is what i is saying cause my mamma always told me dat what to do is say what you fink . dat way people knwos wot yer mean . yer know ? so I stream conciousness out on my there keyboard yo .

    got . dis riteing and putting in a extra space before punctuating is actually like quite hard like . as for forgetting dem dere capital ‘I’s is quite hard to remember only to put small ‘i’s like .

    i hates dem dare faggots . day is da work of satan . I does not now know why and dat is why i is saying that anyone i don t liek is gonna get called won .

    god darn faggots . them there nazi boys have da rite idea . I knows all bout dem dare NAZIS cause i learned it on the HISTORY CHANNEL!@!!!!@#E@#$

    i also like riteing in CAPITALS! it makes me feel big.

    i also use fings like ‘savvy’ to mean – der ya get me yeah !@

    As yer can c i also uses “@! random marks from the tops of me here keybaord when i wanna make my point ! !! ! ! !!

    i will getup sety if you call me out cause its not like i can just pick up a book and educate my self – uyeah the world is hard man .

    oh i ppoorts the asenal !

  187. Dan
    whilst not disagreeing, it’s the league for me. Even the CL is a cup. Ask Ferguson or Mourinho and I bet they’d agree. Deluded Rafa wouldn’t, he thinks it is an aceptable substitute. Ask the scousers what their priority is? Winning the FA Cup doesn’t make you the best team in England, and the CL doesn’t make you the best team in Europe.

  188. jamie i agree entirely it is always the league for me as well. but in january you can not give up on everything else on the off chance you may win the league. if you can not compete on all fronts bring in the players that will allow you to.

  189. well chelsea have a point to prove…actually avram has… otherwise he might follow mourinho… if he doesn’t bring home any trophy…

    we are 2nd on the pl table right now.. and it think we do have a good chance at that… hell i want all the trophies.. and wouldve scored a hatrick yest.. just kidding…

    i am sure arsene wouldn’t have thought that we’d be here.. but we’re here.. so i think he’s trying to play it a bit safe…

    we as fans need trophies… the team does too..

    we haven’t won anything for three years now!!! hell i want a trophy so bad… but we are on that path… probably the pl is the one looking kinda hopeful……

    arsene has so much faith in his youngsters and his squad….. i really hopes he does buy some players.. but lets face it he probably aint gonna do it….

    come may/april… even if we still don’t win anything.. i’m still a gooner.. always will be…

  190. sky watching mug

    182 comments… I bet that all the meat has been picked of the bones of this defeat.

    As I don’t have the time to read all the comments good and bad.

    The doom mongers and the optimistic supporters a like have had their say, I should think. Which ever camp you are in.

    There is one thing that still remains true is the fact that its better being a Gooner than a Tiny Spud.

  191. ck, the one thing everyone will agree on is that we will not be buying anyone over the age of 15 years old between now and Jan 31st!!!!!!!!!!!!

  192. lol classic…!!! at least we didn’t get beat by coventry!!!!

  193. and any news about rvp any1?? looks like the FA is gonna be lookin at the ade vs bendtner video..

    and as they love us so much … we might have some strikers missing

  194. i would rather we did lose to coventry and not had to deal with last night’s debacle. if you are going out might as well do it in the 1st round!!!

  195. ck, you trying to depress us even more!!!! RVP is back in amsterdam, smoking and shagging!!!!

  196. just seeing the light at the end of the tunnel(season).. not trying to depress any body.

  197. Guys, some of these comments were not just bordering on but real attacks to fellow Gooners. But some of your comments, no matter what logic there was, or lack of it, were just counter-productive and outrageous.

    If you, Ethan I mean you, think Ade was wrong to attack/hurt Bendtner (no matter what the kid did before that) bcos it’s plain wrong and absolutely bad for team morale, I think we as fans should be just as decent. We can disagree and of course we can keep trying to prove each other wrong, that’s all fine.

  198. v.poor performance…we let in sme cheap goals

    I wish wenger would get his wallet out and buy some world class players and not take chances on ‘cheap but good’ players

    SMH @ ade v bent….i cant respect a player that would do that to a teammate

    *sigh’s and goes back to watching a dvd of the henry years

  199. I’m a Spurs fan who decided to look at some blogs after the last match. Let me say that this article was excellent. One of the best I’ve read.

    I really love the way both of our teams are playing. Mine can be harrowing. Set pieces were fortunately not a big factor in this match.

    I wouldn’t over-diagnose. Spurs players all have great talent but with a Kryptonite-tragic flaw. Lennon speeds but has trouble finishing. Jenas alternates in quality. Berbatov can get flummoxed, etc. This just didn’t happen last night and we could have beat anyone.

    I am sorry to hear some Spurs fans had a few stupid chants. I just couldn’t hate Arsenal anymore with Mourinho being Mourinho. Watching Chelsea is like watching a rich kid play with a boring, jewel-encrusted train set.

  200. Heh, cheers Murfmensch. It is true, at least in my case Chelsea became THE most annoying club, so seeing them win (specially under murinho, but I wouldn’t like him to be succesfull at all now either, Roman’s still there) was kind of the most frustrating thing in football. After watching Arsenal lose, that is.

  201. Quick question. Do you all enjoy football anymore? You all seem to spend so much time arguing, debating and generally getting angry over football that I wonder if any of you actually enjoy it! I think you all need to take a more philisophical view on the game, you cant win every game. If you do lose, so what, noones died!! Football is a pasttime to enjoy, not a chore, start enjoying the game again.