Numbers, What Does Cazorla Add Up To & Ox Talk

The squad numbers for 2012/13 season were announced yesterday, a menu choice for those purchasing replica shirts. The Retail Department came up with an interesting ploy to rid themselves of their surplus stock of the letters, t, b and c, by persuading the Premier League to permit ‘TBC’ as a squad number, Lukas Podolski the first to take advantage of the new rule.

Whilst many are presuming that his choice is the No.10 shirt about to be vacated by Robin van Persie – or not as the case may be – but I  have a suspicion that he is hankering after the No. 9 shirt allocated to an unknown youngster by the name of Park; looking forward to his breakthrough season at the club. Or is he just lusting for 52 when Bendtner goes to Celta Vigo?

Transfer talk is dominating the airwaves at the moment. Peter Wimsey momentarily removed his left foot from his mouth to insert his right, with a naive statement about van Persie’s situation. It is a peculiarity that his media organ of choice is the Daily Star, although the ties between that paper and his father’s pet media outlet, the Daily Express, are extremely close. The suggestion is that he has a good working lunch relationship with well-known toff, Brian Woolnough.

With Arsène talking freely about signing players, it was no surprise to learn that Santi Cazorla and his agent met with Malaga yesterday to discuss the ongoing problems on the Costa del Sol. Mikel Arteta made sure that the welcome mat was rolled out even further, although he was careful not to become embroiled in a tapping up row with his countrymen,

I cannot talk about the actual situation but I can say that I know him as a player really well. And he’s a top, top player. He has got unbelievable quality and talent and that is all I can say.

It’s enough of a recommendation for me. Arsène saw the open goal and hammered home from close range,

I share the opinion of Mikel Arteta. Cazorla is a great player.

Let’s hope negotiations are more successful than with the last Spanish international midfielder we tried to sign; God help the board if it falls through over £200k again.

Whilst Cazorla can play across the midfield, the initial thought is that he would put pressure on Theo Walcott but I am not sure this is the case. Tomas Rosicky is once more recuperating from injury and my own view is that we have sufficient cover in the wide attacking midfield area. A triumverate of Song, Arteta and Cazorla would be a strong attacking line-up but would allow Song to concentrate more on marshalling the midfield in its defensive duties. This is before promising youngsters such as Coquelin are brought into the equation. I am not sure about Frimpong though. He had good initial games last season but I wonder how much impetus has been lost with his injury. Certainly another loan spell would seem the likeliest option for him whilst it is difficult to see where Henri Lansbury fits in at all, especially with the other younger players making decent outings in the pre-season games so far. As much as we want Steve Bould to organise the defence, the message needs to get through that the successful teams defend from the front when not in possession.

The real pressure on Walcott comes from Oxlade-Chamberlain. The youngster seems physically stronger than Walcott at a similar age and that physique has helped his progress. The thought must be crossing Walcott’s mind that having the same pressure in the England team is something of a message? Whatever the case is, Arsenal have strength in depth on the wings with Gervinho, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Podolski to name but a few. Using Santos as a wide midfielder might be a tactic employed more often away from home, to offer Kieran Gibbs more protection although that team ethic was a quality noted in Podolski by the manager during the summer. It is a failing from last season which on the face of it has been addressed.

Oxlade-Chamberlain offered his somewhat beleaguered manager some support. At a time when players he has nutured are seemingly turning their back on him, Oxlade-Chamberlain sang his praises, offering an insight into how the manager thinks about football. I wonder if his apparent obsession with fitness is an extension of his early impact on the English game or more acutely influenced by injuries suffered in recent seasons? It is an interesting read, with an insight into what appears to be an impressive application of the lessons he has learned in his career.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on July 26, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 469 Comments.

  1. Can’t put time-frames on quality, YW.

  2. Liking the niceness AA.

    So today, people are going to behave today. You really are.

  3. I wanted to do the ’52’ gag – damn it!

  4. You seem to have morphed into some sort of school dinner lady of late, YW. Behave indeed! You need to let stuff happen or you will fuck it all up.

  5. Blimey – Bob’s been shifting his slate again – NEVER been first before!

    Good post YW. Am considering getting a new shirt with TBC on it …

    (Reposting my last from yesterday as it clashed with YW’s alert to today’s excellent post).

    I do ‘get’ Ateeb’s frustration – it’s a frustration I share. I’m pretty certain all of us do, really.

    With RvP, combined with the existing squad, plus the recent welcome additions we really do look nailed on to win SOMEthing this year.

    So the obvious thing is to pay Robin whatever it is he’s asking (let’s say it’s £200k pw over 4 years, assuming it actually IS a salary issue that’s causing the problem).

    Let’s imagine we are right and this coming season we go on to win the EPL but lose Robin to a very serious injury whilst losing the final of the Champions’ League. One of his chocolate legs have not only come-off following a mis-timed ‘fresh-air’ volley, but have in fact melted under the heat of the floodlights; he’s gonna be out for MONTHS.

    The obvious thing to do is replace RvP in time for the new season with that new Dutch wonderkid none of had heard of 12 months earlier. He’s asking £200k pw over four years but he’s young so that’s a no-brainer. Incredibly, Theo’s just had the season of his life, scoring 30 goals including a hat trick in the CL final which we eventually lost 4-3 after Kos was sent off for being too good. Theo’s agent is now demanding that Arsenal show some REAL ambition for the season ahead and renegotiate his recently signed contract to, say, £200k pw over four years. A brand new website appears and Theo chooses to update the fans whilst his agent hastily adds some ‘history’ to the site.

    Arsenal stall, the fans are going nuts, the media are having a field day. Already fingers are being pointed at Wenger and the board for having committed the club to 4 years (“FOUR YEARS!”) to RvP – madness! What with his injury record ‘n’all.

    Citeh come in with a big offer for Theo – £50 million and they’re offering to pay him £300k pw for 5 years.

    Arsenal stall.

    Are we going to be a one-season wonder? Where’s our ambition? Don’t we know the way of the world has changed – we HAVE to win the CL next season to REALLY prove we’re the real deal. We CAN’T leak our best players every other season.

    What’s it to be?

    Far fetched? Or just a stone’s throw from reality?

    As I say, I DO get Ateeb’s frustration but equally feel the RvP saga – IF it IS based on his salary demands (which he currently states is not the case) – is the thin end of a very thick wedge indeed.

    A slippery slope which once you start to head down it, could prove very tricky to get off.

    And I DO see signs of evolution at the club – IG HAS said the player salaries are being re-evaluated, people ARE being moved on, experience in the form of new players are being brought in.

    Without meaning to put words into Ateeb’s mouth, we appear to have a choice in that we either join the revolution started by the Chavs and fuelled still further by Citeh and the their European equivalents.

    Or, we stand by the club and Arsene Wenger, and watch our own revolution get played out.

    Hopefully with RvP.

    But quite possibly without.

  6. Morning YW interesting post – Carzola has apparently been on Twitter this am – stating there is no move, etc..

  7. Frank

    WTF do you think I’ve been doing? Has it made anyone get on any better, bad blood being spilled? I don’t see any end to it and I am tired of getting in from work to read sniping from all-comers, which isn’t achieving anything save for winding people even more.

  8. Poldi no9
    Santi no10
    No number for Lansbury at all!!

  9. Wondering if Arshavin is a viable alternative for that central attacking position; there has been a lot of talk about Arsene playing him out of position on the flank, but with Rosicky out and Wilshere not back the forgotten man could yet make a reappearance?

  10. Take a break, YW. You need a holiday.

  11. “Arsène saw the open goal and hammered home from close range,” : )

    If Santi is indeed signed, at 27 he may be asked to play a more central role then we might have seen him play in the past for Spain and Villareal (I confess I have not watched a single Malaga game. Ever.)

  12. The problem for Theo isnt The OX but his refusal to sign a contract less than £100k a week.Theo never in a million years is worth that

    How is the number 9 shirt still belonging to Park who didnt start one league game last season.Bonkers

  13. i completely agree with you regarding defending from the front its so crucial if playing a high line. from watching us and the silly spuds the other day both have much work to do on this front

  14. GA wrote: ” Incidentally Bill has been saying much the same as yourself and getting slated for it”. *Bzzzzt* Wrong.

    Zimpaul wrote: “Bill, you make stuff up.” *ding* Correct.

    In an effort to investigate the above I once embarked on a D-Fensive analysis of some errors here and there in an important game to see how different actual discussion of football would be to compared to dogma dressed up as opinion. The kind of analysis you could find a little later on Zonal Marking (Just kidding! I do love ZM. Great blog!). Of course YW kindly requested that i not rake over fresh wounds, and then I remembered why I can’t be arsenalled to talk about errors on a football blog/internet where the usual suspects have some form of myopia when discussing specific individuals and the rest. You all know why.
    I apologise for veering of topic. If people really want to knock themselves out on these topics, DesiGunners blog is one for such chitter chatter. Don’t always agree (crazy, huh?), but he writes good match reviews.

  15. Frank – like yourself, in recent weeks, I’ve been in a corner in terms of putting RvP’s case and I’m not entirely unsympathetic to all of Ateeb’s points.

    It’s up to you what you choose to call people but labeling Bob, of all people, in the way that you did only serves to undermine you and, by association, your arguments. It’s about judgement, I guess.

    As I agree with a lot of what you say I find that a bit of a pity, but it’s your call.

    But I have to say if it had been Ja**a using that term I’D be going nuts now and that’s not something I do all that much, truth be told. Sure, I could just scroll on, turn a blind eye, maybe.

    But I would also caution your suggestion to YW to let the site become a free for all.

    In spirit, that’s fine but a complete lack of regulation will just end up with the site degenerating into something not worth bothering with and much like the other equivalents which many of us rightly deride for the dubious quality of the contributors and their poorly judged posts.

    I’m not trying to preach to you and forgive me if it comes across that way.

    But I REALLY value ACLF for providing the platform for intelligent debate, a place where I can take on board the arguments of people like yourself, Ateeb and many, many others – people I don’t scroll on past, or turn a blind eye to.

    And in any case, let’s face it, at the end of the day it’s all bananas, isn’t it?

  16. i think we are getting a midfielder. arsene said it all depends on what happens in pre-season. well rosicky has gone for an op. so that is a new development.

  17. Frank – a little respect for the man who created this is surely a base rule and beyond fair.

    His house. His rules.

  18. I would have thunk Theo probably is worth 100k/week, just.

  19. riproarringred


    My old dinner lady used to take her shoe off and bang it on the table several times to stop the rowdiness!

  20. there is an unwritten rule in sports don’t air the teams dirty laundry to the press. Keep your yap shut. It sounds like this is so. The media’s motto is why let the facts get in the way of a good story. The dust is yet to settle. It will in less than a month when Wenger names the cats who will be on the squad. until then its chump change.

  21. Correction – HUGE respect.

    Not to say he is always right but he has never claimed to be.

    Take your shoes off.

  22. I wholeheartedly agree with Andrew. Again. Especially the bit about bananas. Mmm bananas.

  23. An Oxtail is a dish I can relish, or even an OxTale.

  24. In the current state of things, Theo is worth £100k a week (or £90k and my bonus scheme from last night!).

    Has frank been disrespectful again? Oh dear, he is really losing it that one. I think it’s him who needs a break. Poor man.

  25. malaga or arsenal hmmm tough decision biggest club in london or smallest club in spain hmmm

  26. Finsbury – Not quite. Ateeb has said in many of his posts that he thinks we should be spending more. Not M City or Chelsea amounts, but more than we currently do. Bill has been saying that for as long as I can remember.

  27. Signing Cazorla (I notice Arteta’s been waxing lyrical about his compatriot today) would be a fantastic deal. Hope it happens. A back up GK and a new deal for the captain would represent the best summer business in years.

    It can still happen

  28. HF – it is almost impossible not to. Bastion of sense that boy.

  29. Andy;

    He’s said a lot more than that. And the vast majotiy of it was bananas. J*bberish even.

  30. *man* 🙂

  31. Genuine interweb question. Anyone else finding that messages on FB is broken?

  32. All fine on my end, Jonny.

  33. My end is stunning thanks Jonny.

  34. Dexter unless Fabianski is moving on I dont think we need a goal keeper.

    I am pretty sure if Wenger bought two players today some would be asking for one more come tomorrow (this is not aimed at you specifically)it is something I have noticed in the last few seasons where we always one one more addition to the squad).

  35. Go to Podolski’s twitter page to see why he wants no. 10. Look at the logo!

  36. morning all,
    i think rvp will be surprise he is still with us at this time after his statement he must have taught will be enough to fasttrack his move. he obviously have over valued himself forgeting the fact that only arsenal put players welfare ahead of business. no club will pay £20m for an injury prone one season wonder. but if he is still here by the start of the season, he should striped of the armband and the legendry #10.

  37. Firstlady;

    Oh I only say a new back up to Szczesny as Fabianski himself has stated he needs to play more. In an ideal world he goes out on loan and we sign a 3- something experienced GK.

    I have seen numerous tweets from Arsenal fans clamouring for signings, saying we should spend some fucking money. Completely disregarding the signings we have already made.

    Its been a bit like that on here TBH.

  38. *30 something

  39. If he is still here by the first game of the season it will be interesting what happens with the captaincy. I would be surprised if Wenger stripped him of it if I am honest.

  40. There has been talk on here about Juventus and Bayern taking the so called “middle ground”. I don’t remember but someone here said that Juventus pay top dollar to their star players. They don’t. As of November 2011, their wage bill was 100 million euros. Their top earner is Buffon who takes home 6 million euros, around 115k euros a week or 90k pounds a week. He took a pay cut which Evil mentioned yesterday to stay, an admirable player.

    As for Bayern, they have a similar wage bill as of Arsenal. Their top earners are on more wages than that of Arsenal but not near the “going rate” of EPL decided by city, chelsea.
    Bayern’s working is not much different from Arsenal’s. They too earn profits overall like us. They too have made profits from players sale’s every year since 2007, much like us.
    The major difference is that they earn around 70 million euros more than us. Most of that is due too their high commercial sales(178 million euros) which is in fact the best in the world compared to our commercial income of 51 million.
    Arsenal is definitely looking to tweak the wage structure. I would wager to say that Bayern are not that well run from us as some may believe. They are very similar to us, they just earn more money than us which could very well change after our new commercial deals.

  41. i do see lansbury fitting in, i am certain that once, one of the 25 homegrown/no-homegrown players currently holding a number, depart lansbury will officially be promoted, as he and eastmond are currently the only 2 homegrown players without shirt numbers. i have heard that no.30 has been set aside for lansbury, whilst eastmond is set to get no.33.

    i think, lansbury will contest one of our 3 attacking midfield options next season, along with walcott, rosicky, gervinho, chamberlain, ryo, eisfeld and may be arshavin if he doesnt move on. however, i expect a signing or 2 here as well once rvp and one of the other strikers move on.

    i think podolski will contest the lone striker role with giroud, chamakh afobe and may be park bendtner & rvp if they don’t move on.

    i think song, arteta, diaby, ramsey, coquelin, wilshire, will contest the 2 central midfield roles with eastmond, frimpong, henderson, yennaris and aneke in the background if they dont find loan deals.

    at the back i expect miquel will take the “10th defender” slot once squillaci moves on with sagna jenkinson bartley koscielny djourou mertesacker vermaelen gibbs and santos being the other 9

    in goal is where i am less certain, i honestly think wenger would prefer to sell fabianski and mannone bringing in another keeper to rival szcesney and rely on martinez as 3rd back up.

  42. Pictures with words there – ‘taser cock’. 🙂

  43. on subject of having to sell our best performer every season, there is little the club can do about it in this current mad of display of wealth by sugar daddys. all we can do is to try persuade our players to see that the future is bright. if they fail to see that then sell them at the highest price possible.

    but my advice is that we should start going for players with ages ranging from 25 to 28 so that we will be able to hold them to their contracts while they are still at their peak.

  44. Whilst it should be noted that manchester City wont be the only club to charge Saints fans over £50 for the priveledge of watching a game in their stadium, no in that respect they just happened to be the first that we play, its refreshing to see that some big clubs are not too detatched from their fanbase and the current economic situation and are willing to make fooball affordable again.

    As mentioned a couple of weeks back in the news stories, Arsenal after consultation with their fanbase have revamped ticket prices at the Emirates, the first fruits of this will be on the opening day of the season when Sunderland visit, being a category C game this means that the travelling fans from the North East will only be charged £25.50 to watch the game, with kids at only £10 and senior citizens £11
    Fram a Southampton blog. Well atleast some fans of other clubs appreciate Arsenal. Funny how all the media concentrated on was the most expensive tickets for Cat A games. The ticket prices in the main are still high, but a step in the right direction nonetheless.

  45. Layksite;

    Like Podolski, Giroud and (hopefully) Cazorla you mean then? 🙂

  46. Quality as always YW,
    i especially dug this:

    “Arsène saw the open goal and hammered home from close range!”

  47. Abou Diaby says he is full of confidence ahead of the new season after Arsène Wenger praised his “exceptional” talent.

    He has played a full part in pre-season and Wenger said earlier this week that “he is the first player who would be on the France teamsheet in midfield when fit”.

    “That makes me feel confident – it is always nice to have the confidence of the manager,” Diaby told a webchat with Chinese fans hosted by

    “I’m fit now, I have been training since the beginning of pre-season and also did a rehabilitation session during my holidays – so now I feel great.

    “I know that when I am fit, I can be good on the pitch. My main target this season is to be fit and if I am then everything will be good for me.”

    Wenger has also spoken about how the Arsenal 2012 Tour, presented by Emirates is “crucial” for Diaby in proving his long-term fitness.

    “It is definitely important – I need to be fit in order to complete the whole season,” he agreed. “It is so important that I stay fit because last season I was injured many times and couldn’t play much, so this year is crucial.”
    Surely he deserves better luck this season. Come on Abou!!

  48. It would surprise me if he will still be the captain if he ends up staying.

    For some reason every time I hear this song it reminds me of him

  49. I really do think this is make or break season for Diaby. He needs to get a full season under his belt.

  50. “I have seen numerous tweets from Arsenal fans clamouring for signings, saying we should spend some fucking money. Completely disregarding the signings we have already made.”

    Dex afterall we didnt spend the going rate you know, something like 40m on the said players so unless that happens and sharpish we are still the spendthrift Arsenal. 😀

  51. or rather frugal Arsenal

  52. An experienced back up keeper would be great, Craig Gordon’s still available on a free, he’s 29 and considerably better than our last two Scottish keepers( jim Leighton & George wood)!,seriously I think he’s a great fit,Fabianski wants game time understandably and young vito is wanted by hull again-good luck to both of them,failing getting Craig Gordon, sly Stallone was great in’Escape to victory’ and he’s definitely over 30.

  53. Those who know..know.
    I pray you stay fit too AD2.

    2012/13..understand the envy,
    we have AW.

  54. Andy – I suspect that is all he needs – but those gods are cruel, arbitrary buggers.

  55. Craig Gordon’s definitely a talent.
    Just what happened to him at Sunderland i’m not sure.
    but if there was ever a better gaffer to reboot a player’s career…
    …..he’d be most welcome but i have a funny “foreign” feeling….

  56. Carzola REALLY is a great player..definitely would be nice @ the Arse.

  57. The Cazorla talk for all of the optimism and hope, is beginning to strike me as a bit of negotiating on his part with Malaga. It wouldn’t surprise me to see him sign a new deal this week or profess his undying love for the club.

  58. I hope everything will wonderful even if RVP will not stay here, even God knows that every Arsenal fan wants him to stay with us …… But it is so difficult, please everyone in the whole world pray our lovely team. I’m begging u …………….. And thank u for ur nice comments above

  59. I have a fanciful notion. That RvP was not talking about money, but about football direction “to play ugly when needed”. Earlier last season RvP made an extraoadinary and articulate, I assume ghost written, statement about Arsenal’s fantastic playing style, how intrinsic that was to theidentity of Arsenal. Later (in he context of the euro thungy) he said the exact opposite, play ugly, win.

    Could it be?

  60. Cazo Cazo!!!!!!!!!! we wish u all the best in our arsenal familly. U are welcome here at Emirate

  61. I actually did move the slate a little this morning, Andrew. Seriously.

  62. eh..jumping the gun there Patriote..he’s not ours yet.
    pls read YW @ 11:58

  63. Oh the sacrilege, I have always felt Diaby can be our most important player on the pitch, bar none.

  64. Zim – Maybe. Who knows what the discussion entailed; transfer strategy? Team setup? Of course, wages? Maybe even RvP gave concerns over some of the current players, only for AW to defend them? It really could be anything I suppose.

  65. Ateeb | July 26, 2012 at 8:50 am
    “So Bayern isn’t operating the way we thought we did? Oh my. They bought Ribery and Robben for a combined fees of 50m Euros. Dirty little bastards, acting like City. And that too, when the transfer values weren’t this inflated. And they’re paying them much more than we thought they did? Good Lord!”

    No one is against Bayern spending 50m or 100m or 200m as long as they earn it. I for one won’t criticize Bayern for spending 50m or paying high wages because they are spending what they earn.
    You say what’s the difference between us and city, we too tap players from smaller clubs. Well we spend what we have unlike city who spend a country’s money. That’s the problem many on here have.

  66. Dexter
    yes. like kos, per, sagna arteta, see?
    on walcott, if he want 100k how much is tv5 getting? kos just signed a new contract despite intreast from barca without giving us any stress. how much is he on now? only kompany is at his level in the league and yet he did not ask for ambition$. if you are to choose who is more important to the team betweem walcott and kos who will you choose. for me i dont know a better defender in the world.
    this is a player who really want to play for us.

  67. Nice one YW. Thanks as ever.
    Can’t hang around today as I have a friend coming over to play but my wife said I had to tidy my room before he would be allowed to come over. It’s really messy too.

  68. you know the Villareal player i really fancy YW?
    ….the crocked ex-manc italian who’s expected back next february.
    would be killer if it worked out..and he remained injury-free
    world class potential name is Aman
    and i’m an OPTIMIST!

  69. Zim – Again; maybe. There is the quandry with Diaby. We have all seen flashes of his potential, and it is indeed mouth watering. What we dont know is over a longer run of games would he consistantly produce performces that tally with us potential. I would like to think yes, but in all truth we don’t know as he has not managed to stay fit long enough at any stage in his career.

  70. @ Aman thx, but that is my dream!!!!! u know everyone will always wants ……………… ( nice moment) hmmmm tha is why i willing that. Thank Bro

  71. Aman, I believe Gordon broke an arm a few years back then struggled back to fitness and broke the same arm again soon after. Sunderland didn’t see fit to give him a new deal so I guess they don’t believe he can get back to where he was.

  72. on AD2…i have faith.
    he is worth it…
    but Nostrathymus suggests a jersey number change might do him some good.

  73. i feel u Patriote..we’ll just keep on dreaming. He’s worth it

    re Gordon..thanks for the info Markus…a keeper needs his arms though.
    similar situation with Fabianski ain’t it?
    thankfully we are not Sunderland..

  74. Aman – It was Szchezny that broke both his arms. Fabianski just played like he had 😉

  75. i will like us to break the wage cieling only for players in their prime not players who is still expected to sign 3 or 4 more contracts before they retire. walcott is 23 what will be his next pay at 25, 27, 29?
    i believe any player that really want to play for us will sign our conrtact without any drama because we pay competative wages. city, chelsea, psg, are in a different league.
    adebayorr will definately take a paycut to play for spuds. yet he wanted more when he was with us!

  76. Hre’s another fanciful notion. Look I’m only trying to stoke the fire at it’s gone awfully polite on ACLF, duty, duty. Arsenal buys Podolski, dandy. Arsenal then buys Giroud. RvP learns about this as we do, and feels personally hurt. He knows Giroud and has heard enough. WTF. Is this my replacement or what? Giroud makes a telling remark “I am not here to replace van Persie, no ways” (since Grimandi advises him, say something like that quickly). But the cat is out. The dog is barking.

    RvP has a chat with Vos, friends, family. Simmering tensions rise to the surface, as they do (think any relationship, work or home). Haven’t won a trophy. Can’t play ugly. We shipped 49 goals. Won’t pay my worth. Tippy-tappy football is not effective in England. Cesc left. Samir. Even Gael. Those texts they send me (you still there R?)! And the calibre of players; we’ve still got Arshavin on our books, he’s finished. Jenkinson? Ox. Aaron. These young players can’t win.

    At this point Vos says look Robin, you’re the best in Europe, even XYZ says so. Mind if I follow up with (insert name of choice)? They had an interest but thought you didn’t. Many offers will come.

    But the Boss said they might just run down my contract, what then? He said he really wants me and won’t give up.

    Oh, that’s simple, look what Y did, look what X did. Just go public, don’t say much though. I’ll write it. It’ll work, you’ll see.

    OK, done, says RvP.

    Bad day at the office.

  77. ZP – that’s as credible as anything anyone else has written in recent weeks!

    Why not? These things have an inconvenient habit of spiraling.

    And I find it very telling that there have been no further ‘updates’ on ‘Robin’s’ site.

    And I still don’t really know why there was a media blackout for the duration of the Euros …

    He’s not gone yet (but he could be before the afternoon’s out, of course!).

    IF he stayed, personally speaking, this would be the most exciting season since, maybe the Invincibles?

    So I’d HATE to read in years to come that, upon further reflection, he felt unable to put the genie back into the bottle on account of the uproar he had caused amongst the fans …

  78. A few offers trickle in. Hardly all that exciting. Be patient says Vos; it’s not a good time financially, clubs are cautious. Mancini is keen but would then have Balotelli, Dzeko, Aguerro, Tevez and you, and they need to sell. So we wait. Sit tight. Stop worrying! And DO NOT contact Arsene, that’s what he wants. Remember it’s them who went out and bought that Giroud without telling you. Juve have a great offer on the table; it’s low for you but that’s just negotiating. Leave it to me, it’s my job not yours. Go practice tomorrow, smile a lot, but don’t talk to Arsene, OK, you promise? Tell him you won’t go on tour until it’s all sorted, but nothing else.

  79. Wenger waits, as patient as a leopard, stock-still in a tree, waiting, waiting, unmoving. Non, Ivan, he barks, we say nothing except what I said already, that Robin is the best, we want him and that the offer is the best in Arsenal’s history, nothing more. I know this boy. He’s made a mistake but too proud, always too proud, that’s Robin.

  80. sahil at 11:21 am
    Re Bayern: Thanks for factually explaining how Bayern can pay hyperwages; yes from massively superior earnings to Arsenal’s. The idea by some, many of whom should know better, that Arsenal can somehow match Bayern’s spending without going down the slippery slope is at best naive and feckless. Comparatively, Bayern is in many ways more akin to Man Utd especially in terms of their national domination. In my youth, during the 70s, they were almost always on tv as the emblem of German football. As for spending they too have been guilty of profligacy leading to near ruin in the 70s and 80s (see Wiki). No wonder Bayern supported the new ownership and club licensing rules recently instituted by German football to prevent the type of bubble-boosting spending that is endemic in the EPL led by ManCity and Chelsea.

    Having suffered and still enduring the effects of the last decades financial bubble, why would anyone continue to doubt that this type of hyper spending will eventually succumb to the laws of economics is beyond my comprehension.

  81. AA

    But the genie could have been put back in the bottle or the cloud lifted if he had expanded on the differences in direction that he spoke of. That needed to be done within 24 hours or so but alas Usmanov decided it was time to capitalise on the furore and that more than anything, stopped the problem being resolved amicably.

    He is probably hoping for a move now, uncertain of the reaction he will receive. My own view on that is it will be muted if he remains, not as loving as it was. But if he plays for Arsenal, he has to be supported like any other player. Some – and I’m not directing this at you – seem incapable of grasping that actions on the pitch can be disassociated from those away from it. There have been plenty of players down the years who I have never rated or have disliked but if they were wearing an Arsenal shirt, they sure as hell got my support when they were on the pitch.

  82. Pack it in ZP!

    It is a ‘debate’ well past it’s sell by.

    As for being ‘polite’, well, I didn’t see it that way earlier today.

    Makes one lose a little interest.

  83. To be fair, RvP has not said he wants to leave this summer. Financially it will be much better for him not too. His signing on fee as a free agent in 12 months time would be huge.

  84. Tune in to the next thrilling episode of “Arsene’s Game” next week folks, same time, same channel; here’s a quick preview: Arsene makes his move, it’s bold, it’s aimed at Vos; it has a name, Santi Cazorla. Meantime, he sets up a meeting with City. Is it a bluff?

  85. Sorry, CB. I get carried away by the human drama of it all. I will allow the embers to every-so-slowly glow and quietly fade … until the next exciting … um … cup of tea anyone?

  86. i’m tired too Cbob but ZP’s take is mucho interesting…i could see it being the case…

  87. Another point on wages is the tax laws of the UK. Earning £100k p/w here is not the same as earling it in Spain or Italy. You pay much more tax here making the same wage abroad much more attractive. Unless of course you are M City and you can pay the inflated wages to balance that particular problem out.

  88. ‘No one is against Bayern spending 50m or 100m or 200m as long as they earn it. I for one won’t criticize Bayern for spending 50m or paying high wages because they are spending what they earn.
    You say what’s the difference between us and city, we too tap players from smaller clubs. Well we spend what we have unlike city who spend a country’s money. That’s the problem many on here have.’

    A country’s money? I think it’s got more to do with Eurocentrism on your part than anything. Countries from the South can’t compete with the top European clubs when it comes to wages or transfers. That is why you don’t get the best african or latin american players playing in their respective countries for too long. They’re bought and shipped to be played where the money is. Is that ethical? Capital shuns notions like ethics and morals. This is nothing but a Eurocentric bias on your part. So all this bullshit about Abu-Dhabi ‘dirty oil’ money, is nothing but eurocentrism on people’s part. Capital is connected in complex ways the world over. Is money from financial institutions moral or ethical that takes into account people’s welfare? Don’t fucking kid yourself. The recent financial crisis fueled by speculative finance, led to the foreclosures of millions of homes, poverty, rising inequalities violence e.t.c. They’ve fucking created a food crisis, that’s led to the deaths of thousands if not millions of people in the South. Yes, those same companies, that operate in London, Frankfurt, New York, or Tokyo. It’s time you broaden your minds a little bit. This unconscious xenophobia is quite pervelent in most of you. Dirty oil money, haha. There is much more blood on the money that European clubs borrow from European banks. Not just blood of the people from the South, but also their own. Once you all start shedding your systematic bias, I think than we can move on to having mature debates. I think when people complain about ManCity, it’s not just the bias against the ‘new’ dirty money, but also a sense of loss of domination. Some colonial remnants still need to be drilled out of some of you.

    You think dirty oil money operates in isolation? It’s connected with the rest of the global economy. You think they can continue to operate as they do, without the continuous support of Imperialism? Pffft.

    As for spending within your means. Most clubs are not doing it. They’re running fine, some will fall into mid level table in the future, others wouldn’t. Some will get bought and re-bought. Circulated in the market like commodites for owners who have amassed huge amount of wealth.That’s how things are. Arsenal is financially much more secure, so we can flex. Unless this club is about nothing but profits. All this oh he’s a Russian oligarch and bullshit like that. As if your own banks haven’t shed blood. In fact historically they’re done much more than these small times city states like Dubai or these part time new Russian Oligarchs (which in case you didn’t know were created by EU, IMF and WB-through the liberalization of the markets).

    What’s most hilarious about most of you, is that when it comes to spending beyond you means you all react like hooligans. But you’re all fine with the way football operates in general. How inequalities are created between different continentes. It’s alright to ship players from abroad, from impoverished spaces. And before you point out that you’re offering them better wages-which is true-don’t forget how you can pay them better wages i.e historical, social and political reasons. Moreover don’t forget that of the 11 players that get into a team, 1000s never make it and have to live on scraps or do other menial stuff-due to the less time spent in education institutions e.t.c. You’re also fucking commodified children who’re bought at the age of 11 like commodities so that you can start grooming them at an early age, turn them into machines.

    And all you people are worried about is ‘Hey, don’t you fucking spend more than Stan earns’.

  89. Nice fantasy Zim, but Giroud was bought because Arsenal knew his decision about the extension – remember the pre-Euro meeting and the agreement not to announce anything until the time was right? RVP and his agent panicked when Giroud (potential replacement) was bought because it gave Arsenal the upper hand in the negotiations. The club was no longer backed into a corner if he decided to leave and he could not use lack of alternative to get what he wanted.

    The most charitable thought that I have had is that perhaps it was the length of the contract that was the issue for him. Even so, there was no need for that spiteful public statement.

  90. We’re going to win the league!!!

  91. It’s a bit ironical that people supporting a club with the football stadium named ‘The Emirates’ have problems with ‘dirty oil’ money operating at a different club.

  92. Allow me to lighten your load, help carry your bags, lessen your worries and burdens. Manchester United’s second attempt at a New York listing, as well as Singapore and Hong Kong have been “placed on hold” due to the “volatility in the american markets”. The public listing was required to lift their burdens, a wee 423m pound debt through sale of shares. Translated, this means their NYSE agency told them at the last it wouldn’t wash (listings are pretty much pre-sold most of the time).

    Ateeb, as I see now more clearly, your sentiments about Arsenal are both more general and more personal in character. You’re perfectly right by the way, perhaps even under-stated. But Arsenal barely register on the scale you are talking, a blip, not even really.

  93. I don’t think they’re personal. I think they’re objective. And blips connect to make a whole.

    But you’re correct about them being under-stated.

  94. Ateeb,
    what is this ” all you people” BS you keep spitting?

    when was the world ever perfect?

    forget Eurocentrism, Afrocentrism or Asiacentrism you are choosing the wrong forum to keep blaring out your issues with the world…get a grip man!

    I am as against ” the evils perpetuated by colonialism then and now but it does not give me the right to keep pointing fingers at people who enjoy the better values of a football club.

    Be respectful, go FIND or CREATE a forum where you can express your angst & opinions about the world and leave “all us people” who come here to get away from the “sordid realities” of humankind!


  95. This is an interesting quote to lighten things up:

    ‘“Everything which the political economist takes from you in terms of life
    and humanity, he restores to you in the form of money and wealth, and everything which
    you are unable to do, your money can do for you: it can eat, drink, go dancing, go to the
    theatre, it can appropriate art, learning, historical curiosities, political power, it can travel,
    it is capable of doing all those thing for you; it can buy everything: it is genuine wealth,
    genuine ability. But for all that, it only likes to create itself, to buy itself, for after all
    everything else is its servant. And when I have the master I have the servant, and I have
    no need of his servant. So all passions and all activity are lost in greed. The worker is
    only permitted to have enough for him to live, and he is only permitted to live in order
    to have’.

  96. ..”your sentiments about Arsenal are both more general and more personal in character. You’re perfectly right by the way, perhaps even under-stated. But Arsenal barely register on the scale you are talking, a blip, not even really”.

    ..u are a wise old head ZP. Thank u

  97. They are personal. They aren’t objective since no matter how objective you may think you are, your own bias will come through. That’s not personal, that’s objective.

  98. Ateeb – so unless we’re all prepared to admit our complicit guilt for imperialism and support a worldwide revolution against the capitalist financial world order whilst shedding our shameful Eurocentrism, then we’re hypocrites if we want the books to balance. Nice to get that sorted.

    Why not run along and play with your new playground buddies at Marxism 2012? Altogether now “the self-sustaining model is the new slavery!”

  99. I think everyody might be looking into the goings on a little too deeply.

  100. Marx 101.

    Introduction to Sociology for universities cica 1971.

  101. Aman,

    How about you fuck off? Football is as political as any other sphere of life. You want to gloss over the harsh realities of the sport so you can drink beer and enjoy the game? At least I am honest with what I am watching. That too, if I continue to watch.

    As for the ‘dirty oil’ money crap, russian oligarchs, I think it’s time we rethink over these issues. Which has been the point I’ve been making for the last 2 days. And this isn’t your blog. A lot of other commentators for good or worse, have taken the points I’ve made over the last 2 days. And there have been shifting point of views within this blog for years.

    And frankly if we’re going to get away from the ‘sordid realities’ of humankind, I might as well watch Robin lead the line where we’re actually going for titles. If I need a fucking break, I might as well watch good players in our team rather than worry about Stan’s welfare. Which as things stand will continue to flourish even if we pay Robin the rate that the market determines.

    And when I say ‘you’, I also indirectly mean ‘we’, which includes a lot of readers who don’t comment as well people who comment and agree with me.

  102. So much for being nice to everyone day.

    >And this isn’t your blog.

    It isn’t yours either. So if there’s going to be anyone telling anyone to Fuck off today, it’ll be me and no-one else.

  103. Caxter | July 26, 2012 at 1:52 pm – We’re going to win the league!!!

    I love it when someone cuts through all the debate and delivers the simple truth. So let me add…

    We’re going to win the Champions League and all!!!

  104. I want my fantasy back. Give it back Passenal.

  105. Bob,

    I can see you’re a staunch supporter of the current system. It’s not been 1971, if you had taken your lessons or even your history a bit too seriously. The Utopian thought has continued since the likes of Plato. He wrote a bit about the money form corrupting human relationships. As for present times, of course, we do need to rethink the current order where 2 billion people are currently living under poverty.


    ‘They are personal. They aren’t objective since no matter how objective you may think you are, your own bias will come through. That’s not personal, that’s objective.’

    By that same logic, whatever you write was a load of bullshit and nothing else i.e lacking complete objectivity. Your clever twisting words don’t make much sense. In case you’re saying there is no objectivity to be achieved about analysing a certain situation or even an object for that matter, than I think you’re quite mistaken.

    Once you figure out my comment at 1:28, and how it lacks objectivity than we can have another word on this matter. For now I leave you with your biased views about ‘dirty oil’ money.

  106. BTW I’d like to echo AA, ZimPaul’s hypothetical is the most credible scenario to be posited so far. Very funny, too

  107. FFSshoot,


  108. Is there any way I can just block Ateeb? I find myself growing wary of his diatribes continually spouted on this blog. I support freedom of speech, but this isn’t the place for politics or social reform.

  109. Ateeb, have you thought about a career at Fox News?

  110. Ateeb, you’ve turned from incoherent rambler to sanctimonious preacher but in all of this, I still don’t get what point you are trying to get across.
    So football is a cancer and we are all hypocrites who aren’t allowed to take the moral high ground but instead of even attempting to do it slightly better than some others, we should blow all that into the wind and just fall in line with City, PSG, etc.?

  111. Miami,

    Did you find the nuclear bomb in Iraq yet?

  112. Get a grip, Ateeb. This is about football with a bit of debate about life thrown in via the comments section. Now you may lead a heavily politicised life – that’s fine and your choice which should be respected – BUT polemics don’t win arguments.

    >whatever you write was a load of bullshit and nothing else i.e lacking complete objectivity.

    It can’t have taken you this long to work that out, surely.

    >In case you’re saying there is no objectivity to be achieved about analysing a certain situation

    Nope, everyone has an angle that influences your point of view about matters. It takes the objectivity away. Your 1.28pm comment was entirely biased. It is the product of your experiences, learning, reading and views. Nothing wrong in that but again, it is not objective.

    Once you figure out my comment at 10:08, and tell me where telling people to “Fuck off” comes into it. Then we can have another word on this matter.

  113. Ateeb, which part of YW stating time and time again this blog is his personal view of all his thoughts on Arsenal. He is not pretending like some to know better than everyone else, he just puts his thought on the internet for others to read.

    If you hate Arsenal’s model so much that it is causing that vien in your head to pulse then maybe it is time for you to move on to something more your speed… like Man City! Get a grip.

  114. Evil,

    Yup. Not allowed to take a moral high ground, by any stretch of the imagination. And I think I’m done with the earlier debate about the line Arsenal should take about wages and all(which had a lot to do with us not replicating the city model). I was just trying to undo some biases in a lot of you. And why not? As for the witch hunt that’s underway here against people who are thinking a bit differnt-it’s becoming quite obvious that speaking the truth objectively touches a lot of nerves on here.

    Any new interesting figures you’ve dug about Bayern Munich? (by dug I mean ‘made up’)

  115. As, apparently, “‘.. a staunch supporter of the current system”. you’ll be glad to know that I’ve decided to liquidate my assets- yes, all my vegetables and chickens and 15 year old car, old Arsenal programmes, the lot- and reinvest them in something more profitable.

    It all started on a council estate in Plymouth where I learnt all my bourgeois sentimentality from the mouth of my dear old dad who took two jobs on leaving the services along with my mother, who also had two,, who learnt it from his dad who was a labourer in Kingston.

    My support and love of the capitalist system was as natural to me as the caviar and champage we lived on.

    Anyway, back to making money.

    Anybody got any ideas?

  116. Wow Ateeb, just Wow!

    Let me begin by saying you make sweeping assumptions.
    “Eurocentrism”- I don’t even know what the fuck that is. Someone please tell me what it is. Although by reading your post, I assume it is something on the line of Euro bias or something?
    I am not European, don’t assume things.
    You say I have colonial/imperial bias, xenophobia. As far as I know the country I am from didn’t colonize any other country.
    You say my banks have shed blood- Again you assume I am from one of those developed countries, I am not.

    Semantics Ateeb! My post had nothing to do about dirty money. Ok, my choice of the word “countries money” may have been wrong but I was in no way referring to the dirty money.
    All I was trying to say was that City are spending what they don’t earn unlike Arsenal or Bayern.

    Was my post so hard to understand? I ask everyone. Did all of you not understood what I was trying to say or is it just Ateeb?

  117. I can’t believe that all of this has come from the simple fact that one of our players has decided that he wants to go and play for a more competative club and earn more money. In essence, that is all that has happened.

    It is shit as an Arsenal supporter, but it is what it is.

  118. I cannot believe that there are still people that want to see Arsenal mortgage their future on the “hope” of silverware! You would have thought the current economic climate would have made people look inward and see that spending what you don’t have is just a flat out bad idea.

  119. FFS? Yes Ateeb, I too was a teenage communist. Undoubtedly the others on this blog are exhibiting false consciousness. The power of your dialectic will inevitably persuade them that the interests of the international working class (most notably RVP) should outweigh those of the bar staff and cleaners at the Emirates (who I surmise will be reactionary and Eurocentric).

    FFS this is ACLF not Socialist Unity.

  120. Ah, truth. Now there’s the start of a potentially interesting debate.

  121. Harry Flowers

    “I think than we can move on to having mature debates. I think when people complain about ManCity, it’s not just the bias against the ‘new’ dirty money, but also a sense of loss of domination. Some colonial remnants still need to be drilled out of some of you.”

    Yes indeed Old bean. But we always gave the fuzzy-wuzzies a fair trial before we shot them. What. Well it’s relief to know we can now peel of our collective white liberal skins to reveal the colonial bastards lurking underneath.

    I don’t know if I should laugh or cry. So our distaste at the business strategy of the Sheikh Mansour & co is really down to a deep sense of loss/envy that “we” no longer rule the waves. Or summat. Er. Right you are.


  122. lol Miami..

    you make so many assumptions about people on this blog that it makes me wonder how old you are.

    Like you just found out yesterday that the world isn’t so fair and must thrust your new found world view on everyone you come into contact with?….

    when all we all really want is for RvP to apologize, re-up and join in the PURPLE DOUBLE!

    Lighten up or else man…

  123. Pfft. Really Yogi. I don’t think there was any bias in that comment. If that is so, than I think we can have a separate debate somewhere else, in case you still need convincing about the ‘evils’ of the financial markets, trading children in sports, destroying careers of football players and livelyhoods, impoverishing a lot of countries from their home grown talents, etc.

    I am quite astounded that intelligent folks here are so blatantly ignoring the way football actually runs. I can understand why it would be so-in order to continue enjoying this sport-but turning this into a witch hunt and limiting the debate to ‘football as we’re supposed to understand it’ is quite detrimental.

    So are you saying we’re not supposed to discuss the bitter realities of football? Most of the people have suddenly reacted in this way. Sure my views in the last 2 days have been quite apolitical. But just one comment and so many interesting reactions.

  124. I do get now what you are trying to say, but I just can’t agree with that. It’s a bit like accusing someone who’s giving to charity of being hypocritical for not giving all his earnings away. The way you are painting the picture, there only exist two extremes. Either you walk away from commercial football altogether or you are one of the bad guys. And if you try to walk the middle ground, you are a hypocrite and still one of the bad guys.
    of course we could all do more to make the world better, but going that way about it is not going to actually convince people to change anything.

    As for the “made up” figures: it’s nice of you accusing me of making things up when I explained in yesterday’s post how I came to make the mistake that resulted in my referring to incorrect figures. Now, it’s up to you if you are going to believe me or not when I say that it was a genuine mistake, one for which I apologised, but don’t you think that if I had made something up, I would’ve been more staunch in defence of it?

  125. Don’t flatter yourself, Ateeb. No nerves touched. You have been a popular poster here and many of us wanted to engage with you on your reappearence.

    You have just made things personal in the form of your verbal assault on people here and your seeming belief that only you understand the world and how it is.

    Oh, and Aston Villa will win the PL when they get more points than anybody else.

  126. Sahil,

    No kid. I didn’t say that ‘your’ bank shed blood. I said the financial markets works in this way. And neither did I say it’s just the South that they impoverish. There is around 25% unemployment rate in countries like Greece, Spain and Italy-for instance.

    Harry Flower,

    That is one possible scenario for sure. Go around the blogs and you will see it. As for ‘the right’ way. I think I nailed most arguments yesterday about how any small club seeking to win the title will have to take the route that Chelsea and City took. Once you figure out how Aston Villa can win the title without spending money, we can have another mature debate? Ok?

  127. On the finer points of contemporary revolutionary theory of praxis, I have reservations on Ateeb’s “burn it all down” post. I know, I know. Another day, another blogsite.

  128. pedantic george

    Does anyone else get more joy out of watching flawed players like Arshavin and Santos ,Or is it just me?
    Can we get back to this being a nice place to spend time?

  129. Bob. Sell your fucking chopper. Capitalist pigdog. 😉

  130. It’s not a witch-hunt for people not to want to be bored by a self-righteous prig who appears to have just discovered politics and is now certain that he sees the world so much more clearly than everybody else. Insulting everyone who disagrees with you doesn’t help either. You are the loud-mouthed boor at the bar that everyone is backing away from, hoping you’ll shut up or go home soon.

    I’m with Caxter; we going to win the league!

  131. ateeb –

    whilst I am certainly no apologist for high-finance or for the havoc wreaked across the globe by western financiers both historically and at the moment (in fact I’d go so far as to say I hate them with every part of my being, and think the whole world is on a massive downward spiral that we’re only at the beginning of where the shit is really going to hit the fan – and that the blame lies with our chums in the square mile and beyond)

    HOWEVER – to overlook the flaws of oligarchs & oil rich arab princes based purely on the fact that the west has bad guys as well is totally wrong. People like abramovich and usmanov raped their countries when the iron curtain came down, rising to influence through incredibly nefarious means on a wave of violence and corruption and screwing over their own countrymen. Since 1990, over £190 BILLION has flowed out of the former Soviet Union and now resides in tax havens the world over, money that should be taxed and pumped back into their economies. Sheikh’s in the Middle East have turned patches of desert with a history consisting of bedouin tribes where no real settlement previously existed and have created gleaming cities of glass built by glorified slaves from pakistan and bangladesh, who have died in their thousands with their poor working conditions, and now in places like bahrain rule like medieval kings denying ordinary citizens any fundamental rights.

    I dont like the fact our stadium is sponsored by Emirates, I dont like the fact our shirts are made by Nike, I dont like any of the bloated neo-liberal capitalism that has poisoned football, but as you’ve said, that is the way of the world and you need to accept it. I’m not going to get into the whole argument you were waging yesterday – but don’t you dare ascribe criticism of these disgusting individuals to being mere ‘eurocentric imperialism’ – they are disgusting, abusive cancerous individuals who repeatedly stomp on the ordinary man, screw up the planet and do anything and everything they want in the pursuit of power and money. Yes individuals like that exist here too, they exist the world over, but that doesn’t mean they cant be criticised, because they fucking should be.

  132. Ateeb

    I have not passed comment on your views of the world beyond the walls of Arsenal FC. I can see the angle you are coming from, don’t agree with some of them at all whilst others are more extreme than my own. Now I suspect that’s because I am by birth the product of a colonial nation.

    However, you are trying to extend football into a wider context which is not working at all, on any level, because of (a) the strident nature of your delivery and (b) you are insulting people, e.g. telling people to fuck off. I can handle the barbs aimed at me because I am too long in the tooth to care. That’s not to say there are no limits either. Which I suppose is just me and my contradictory views again. Pffft.

    Others are reacting to your written aggression. I see where they are coming from as well. You may think that your delivery is entirely reasonable, may be it is. But there are many times in history when the written word does not convey the message as intended. That doesn’t mean that all comments have to be in the middle for fear of upsetting people but a re-read of your post and count to 10 before hitting the send button might take some sting away. You might not want to, as is your right, but don’t get defensive or hurt when others react strongly.

  133. @Ateeb
    To counter the point you’ve made: how is it possible that Dortmund won the league, twice in a row in fact in a league where probably a quarter of the clubs outspends them? Or Montepellier’s league win. FFS even Tottenham had a genuine chance last season to win the league up until their collapse and they are spending less than we do (on wages).

  134. George – more joy than what?

  135. Sell The Flying Pasty? Never! Surely we must allow Bob some creature comforts.

  136. Ateeb – YW clearly stated this site was nothing but ‘his opinion’ yesterday (my words).

    It’s really the most simple thing to understand.

    Got a soapbox? Build your own temple. YW sure as damn spent enough hours for us to pay respect in his.

    Sorry Yogi – really not meaning to talk for you but, to me, this is basic ‘101’ politeness and heats my blood.

  137. Yeah but you dodged the flying pasty issue, didn’t you.

  138. But Evil, it was still proven that none of these clubs pay like City. That is the real point. That you were off due to a mistake is irrelevant.

    Also for those talking about a middle ground. The middle ground cannot be between 6 clubs that can pay silly money to players and the rest of the clubs in every league. In order to find this nebulous middle ground (no one has shown me what it is tangibly) you have to take all of the top leagues and average out how much they spend on players and how much the players earn and then you have to know every team’s financial status to the t.

  139. Bob,

    How about sticking to facts and truths? I only pointed out how football operates and it did touch a lot of nerves. As for my comments which have been made under the general rubric of ‘you’ has been directed against people who actually do think very simplistically and at times unconsciously reeking with Xenophobia. Dirty oil money, Russian Oligarchs, blah blah. As well as Arsenal operating very similiar to other clubs as far as tapping up players, buying them from smaller clubs. What I’ve tried to do is burst this self created bourgeoisie bubble that most Arsenal fans have created around themselves that we have some high moral ground with regards to other clubs. Pfft. I think other clubs can also emulate financials like Arsenal if they start competing for the fourth position and start selling their best players every year. It’s not that ‘radical’. Let me know how different we are from City when you figure it out?

    Once you figure out what was wrong in my comments with regards to how football operates than we can have further ‘talk’ on this matter.

    And I’ve made this personal? Don’t kid yourself. Go back to the comments section for the last 2 days. I’ve not assaulted anyone verbally, nor address anyone in particular at times.

  140. slightly more than 3 weeks to go! hopefully when the real football starts, we have better things to talk about.

    ateeb is boring me to death.

  141. FFP is an advantage to those with means and a disadvantage to those clubs that don’t. FFP is not something that makes all clubs equal, what it is suppose to be is a way to ensure clubs remain solvent.

    I have said it before and I’ll say it again, there is nothing wrong with Man City spending money to play catch up the issue is that in doing so they have created an unsustainable economic model. It may give the back pages something to write about but over inflated transfers and wages are bad for the game in general. Man City’s turn over in the 2010/11 season was 153 million compared to a wage bill alone of 174 million. It is flat out nonsense to think that Man City are sustainable in any sense of the word, moreover when could you actually see them achieving it? We know FFP has loop holes but anyone who looks at Man City knows that there is going to be a problem at some point.

    I have watch Chelsea this summer make acquisition after acquisition and cannot helpm but wonder how they are going to likewise meet FFP standards. Chelsea’s higher turnover of 222 million is better but they had a wage bill in the range of 190 million.

    The information for both of these clubs excludes transfers made, which in the case of Chelsea this summer must be a tidy figure with the signings of Hazard, younger Hazard, Oscar and Marin… apologies if I missed someone.

    Football in England at the moment just seems to be in their own world of insanity. Interesting to note that Man City have not been splashing cash this summer, at least not yet.

  142. Bob’s chopper is called The Flying Pasty?!

    LOL! I was asked to name it by Dexy, but hadn’t joined the dots.

    *wipes tear*

    I do enjoy an on-running joke.

  143. Well Ateeb;
    You copied my previous post in your reply.
    Your first line is that my post was Eurocentricism on my part, when I am not even European, this is the first time I have read the word “Eurocentricism”. I don’t give a two farts fuck about “Eurocentricism”.
    If you are making a general post, best not to copy someone else’s post and then begin your ramblings.
    I see how you concentrated on a particular word in my previous post and completely forget to entertain the rest of my points, just like you did with my post before that.

  144. You told Aman to fuck off. Is that not a verbal assault directed at him in particular?

  145. YW,

    I think it goes both way. There has been enough abuse hurled at me and Frank at times for the past two days. I haven’t seen you come to our defence as such. But I get your point, and I think you can understand what happens when emotions start running high. I’ll try to be a bit more careful.

  146. pedantic george

    FFS ,more joy than a more well rounded player .A more efficient player.A less creative player who make less mistakes and takes less risks.
    Thanks for engaging BTW.

  147. And no Evil didn’t make up any facts. The first search result on Google about Arjen Robben wages says he earns 5.5 million. The result was not upgraded, it was a mistake on his part not some made up facts.

  148. Sahil,

    It’s really difficult to take you seriously.

    FFS Shoot,



    Stop reading my comments. I’ve hardly read yours to be honest. And I am not having this conversation with you, mostly people I know. And they know who they are. In other cases, I type the name of the person I am addressing, that is the easiest way to know that you don’t have to read it

  149. Ateeb, you get stick because you are not even giving us a wine to drink before trying to jump in to bed. We all like some foreplay before the diatribe.

  150. @Ateeb
    The abuse hurled at Frank has some history however. He was, after all, the first one to throw some of it around back when George posted that infamous Arshavin picture with the “Calm down” caption. But I am going to agree with you that it would be nice if we would all try to keep our emotions better in check and don’t accuse our fellow posters, In that vein, I am going to apologise for calling you incoherent and sanctimonious which is obviously only my subjective perception of your writings but could nevertheless be understood to be meant offensively.

  151. Ateeb – I’m sorry if you found my (meant to be) light-hearted jokes insulting yesterday. You will note I did not disagree so much with the content as the change of character.

    I’m sure it has been thoughtfully arrived at and you actually raise some synergistic points with myself. (Bullshit businesspeak alert).

    Most of the comments yesterday were more to do with the abrupt volt-face and rather bullish tenor of making your new feelings heard.

    I think you’d really benefit from a step back, a pause and representing yourself more calmly.

    Hate to hear you call us you lot when, for me, you are one of us.

    Sorry if any of that sounds condescending or patronising – certainly not my intent.

    I still stand by my comments re respecting the house you are in mind. 🙂

  152. I’m going to invest in can goods and shotguns now…

  153. FFS,

    So you’re going to have a conversation with me about a ‘verbal assault-fuck off’ rather than the forms of child commodification going on in football? Can it be seen as slavery as well or do we discuss how much that abuse hurt you and him? I think you both deserve a fuck off, but as I’ll restrain. I’ll try to be more polite.

  154. pG – I get your gist. You prefer the less predictable types. Gervinho as well.

    What’s the chances that Andrei will still be gracing the purple hoops in September do you think?

  155. Sahil,

    It’s really difficult to take you seriously.

    Oh my!!!

  156. *Group Hug*

    Grasps Jonny in a headlock, clenches fist and vigourously applies knuckles across top of head and drunkenly slurs, “I love you like a brother, man”.

  157. jonnyeale,

    Lolz. No problems. Yes, I am working on my ‘politeness’ issues. Bob can attest that I’ve always had a problem with regards to that matter.

    And just to make it clear by ‘you’ I don’t mean all of you. ha ha. I can’t really know what all of you think, because I don’t really know who all of you are nor have I kept track of ‘your’ views. By ‘you’ I usually mean the ‘subjects-who hold particular views’ that I am addressing.

  158. I can’t hear you Ateeb, I’ve gone outside for a smoke.

  159. What happened Ateeb, don’t you have anything else to accuse me of.
    You have tried “Eurocenticism”, Imperialist mindset, Xenophobia(all wrong by the way).
    Am I a dirty low life criminal too, perhaps a loan shark?

  160. pedantic george

    FFS.yes I believe we used to call them “luxury players”
    I do hope Andrei stays ,but I fear the worst.

  161. Jabberwocky,

    Your comment deserves a serious reply. Which I would, once I am done replying to the various people having a go here and there. But you might find this interesting-as far as wealth concentration is concerned.

  162. I would have thought there would be more movement on the AA and Bendter transfers

  163. Giggle. Been both the giver and the receiver in that event YW. (fnarr). Particularly in my teenage years.

    Ah the reserved English and their tumbling drunken emotions. Bless.

  164. sahil

    I don’t s’pose I could have a tenner at mates rates, could I?

  165. arsenalandrew

    Jonny @ 2.53.

    With all due respect, that’s just pie in the sky.

    The Flying Pasty STAYS.

    Let that be an end to the matter.

  166. Ateeb, that article was all the play of the leftist news channels last evening… by contrast Fox argued that the figured was hugely inflated for political reasons and warranted no real response.

  167. New plan – for a change, comedy Thursday!

    You ARE astroturf.

  168. pedantic george

    What I woulnt give for a chat to Hunter or even GUS

  169. Harry Flowers

    Ateeb you are obviously a very bright fellow, and some of your points today I actually agree with, whilst others appear to me completely off the radar. That’s fair enough. However you’ve been on “attack” mode these last couple of day, which inevitably rubs people up the wrong way. No offence. I love people with strong opinions, and enjoy reading ’em. Sit on the fence and you get splinters in your arse.

    Frank doesn’t strike me as the type of person who needs anyone to come to his defence, he seems more than capable of fighting his own corner. He appears to enjoy a good verbal duel.

    It’s all getting too nice around here now. Won’t last. I’ll give it half an hour.

  170. PG

    I wouldn’t give anything. I’d expect to be paid for it.

  171. Luxury players; only in English football man.

    I hope we keep every single one of the players currently in our squad, with the possible exception of NB52 who’s been just too disloyal.

  172. Admit YW you visit Hunter in ‘the hole’ occasionally because you secretly miss him.

  173. I would stick with the musical one jonny
    Here’s one of my favs

  174. Yeah, I do. It’s my guilty pleasure.

  175. pedantic george know what I am saying

  176. Hunter, Now that’s what you call a man with strong opinions.

  177. My dear brother Ateeb, as someone who agrees entirely with your world view, in general – a few over-zealous errors here and there – I can say as an older and more experenced person (advisedly, and I know what I am talking about), that the correct way to address people, all people, is with utmost respect for their life experiences, views and knowledge – even when you think they are wrong, they are not in fact stupid.

    I exclude the reactionary, imperialist and facist individuals, but you ought to know there are none on ACLF, not a single one.

    I implore you, in the name of all that is good and decent in humanity (because that is your inspiration, that you care enough to make some noise), to start from the premise of respect of people, and the great art of listening and understanding their viewpoint. All you will learn, you will learn the most from ordinary and working people, much like those on ACFL, with their profound opinions that enrich your own.

  178. sahil

    That’s not what I called him.

  179. Strong onions more like.

    Made me cry anyway.

  180. george

    i do have a soft spot for players/teams with some vulnerability, some fragility, some flaw. of course this means that it often ends in heartbreak…maybe i just have a penchance for melancholy. it’s the romantic in me, i suppose.

  181. Lol jonnyneale

  182. I really could not care less about child commodification going on in football and other such stuff. Or the politics behind the “blood money” in European banks. I really couldn’t. I realise that may paint me as a shallow type of fella, but meh.

  183. Made you cry Jonny? That you in touch with your feminine side?

  184. ffshoot,
    “You told Aman to fuck off. Is that not a verbal assault directed at him in particular?”

    Yes Ateeb…
    Yogi can u make Ateeb “allow” me fuck back on again?
    (i’m getting claustrophobic in this tiny fkoff room)

  185. Did Zimp just write the Magna Carta for ACLF?

  186. Invest in can goods and shotguns, Miami?

    Sounds a plan to me.

    Maybe a chain gun for the helicopter.

  187. The Rights Of Man, I think.

  188. pedantic george

    korihikage ,Yes I find the efficiency of say a Maureen’s Chelsea, unpalatable.I love a flawed genuis.Stan Bowles,but you wont know him ,so Arshavin then .Yes ,he is the one.

  189. my favourite player at Arsenal right now is koscielny, because he had a real baptism of fire when he started his Arsenal career. but back then, in his very first game when i watched him for the first time, i always felt that there was something about him..especially the way he read the game. i said from day one that he’s going to be brilliant. and today, most discerning fans are in agreement, so it isn’t often that i get to say, i was right. it’s always satisfying to have backed the right horse.

    koscielny has really come a long way… from ligue 2 to proving detractors wrong. hasn’t been easy. it makes you root for him, and it makes you believe romance isn’t dead in football, though some clubs are out to strangle it.

    i strongly believe gervinho will take that step up as well and shove some humble pie up some people’s asses.

    but having said that, i am hesitant to invest any more emotions in individual players, having been left brokenhearted once too many in recent years.

    Dennis Bergkamp is the one and only player for me.

  190. Cbob

    I’ll ask my oldest about which is best. He’s up on that what with his expertise on Modern Warfare 2.

  191. Christ – YW! I’d never denied that – I operate at extremes and leave little room for the middle. Apart from on here – when I operate at extremes ABOUT the middle.

    Jebus. On rare occasion, I’ve been known to shed a tear at adverts!

    Big Men Cry. 😉

  192. *deny*

  193. Perfect comment, ZP!

  194. As for Frank being attacked. Well. The mind boggles. I mean, why?

    It’s not as if he offends anyboby.

  195. pedantic george

    Blimmey ,I agree with Andy.

  196. Cbob

    >It’s not as if he offends anyboby.

    Well he certainly offended a certain boby earlier on…

  197. george

    another flawed genius would be france’s louisa necib. that girl is a joy to watch, the way she strings passes and all. they call her zidanette in france. but she isn’t the most physical of players and tend to struggle against physical, efficient opponents.

    being not the biggest of players myself, i like to draw on one of robinho(well for all his flaws, he did say something important) quotes: strength can never beat intelligence.

  198. Great comment, ZP. The blog had actually gone away from the name calling (for the most part) but with the RVP situation some uncessary name calling took place and it escalated.

    What really bothers me is that we were all quite happy with the flow of the team. I am still happy.

    The only thing that upsets me about football is that it it too expensive overall (and players not honoring contracts) and if we continue to say that more money should be pumped in, the supporters will have to spend more. With that, I don’t want players or owners making more money. If there is an evil, they are both a part of it.

  199. pg: What I woulnt give for a chat to Hunter or even GUS….aye & nay!

    ZP to Ateeb,
    “All you will learn, you will learn the most from ordinary and working people, much like those on ACFL, with their profound opinions that enrich your own.

    would that be A Cultured F**k Left, ZP?

  200. George – if you like Stan Bowles you’ll love this:

  201. Sorry Yw, that link is fucked up

  202. jonnyneale | July 26, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    YW; I know.

  203. Zp,

    Sure I agree with you on most point, especially about addressing people. It’s the reactions I got that led to the sort of replies I gave. I don’t think they’re stupid or anything like that-but just as we think ‘doomers’ are misguided at times, I do think people are too at times-on some issues. I was just commenting on the realities of football in a more holistic way and it generated certain kind of responses which I am sure you must have also seen. Sometimes it’s unconscious with no malaise on their part-however that does not mean that these issues should be glossed over. Political engagements does at times get heated, that’s usually the case with politics. Although I do think I can work on the way these issues should be approached. It’s not easy though as one has to respond to 20 comments in the span of 30 minutes. I was willing to ‘listen’ to the issues I had raised, but if you read comments that followed-from outright ‘let’s stop his freedom of speech’ to ‘let’s not talk about the harsh realities of football’-that kind of pissed me off.

  204. pedantic george

    Aman,I was exaggerating to make my point,obviously.

  205. ” I do hope Andrei stays ,but I fear the worst.”

    If he isn’t on the trip to Asia I think it’s clear Arsene has no plans for him.
    But that doesn’t mean he’s going anywhere. I suspect he’s having the same problems Bendtner is in finding anyone interested in him.
    I suspect Andrei will swallow his pride and find a job in Qatar or United Arab Emirates. Maybe even Turkey but at reduced wages. Seems his frank comments at the end of the Euros have made him toxic in Russia.
    Still don’t know why Anzhi don’t put in an offer. They’re in Dagestan, not Russia.

  206. ateeb – i read that article a few days ago. And as ZimPaul has stated, I share your world view…or at least the general way of thought behind it (bleeding heart champagne socialist that I am), but do not agree with being an apologist for any evil people, whether they be white, black, western, eastern, anything. Can quite happily bash the western elite without excusing others. But it’s all about debating ideas, and not applying them with a sledgehammer – as how else do you try to win people over to your way of thinking – by convincing them or bludgeoning them?

  207. Anyways……

    RVP Click Click Click!!

  208. and zimpaul – there is one, to my knowledge. The geeman has a bit of the tin-foil hat right wing crazy about him – something about that awful communist idea for free healthcare for all…

  209. Should that not be RvP, Chink, Chink, Chink? 😉

  210. pedantic george

    Philmar,he will not go anywhere on reduced wages.His move will be all about wages ,His agent has said exactly that.

  211. AHA! You have got a fucking helicopter.

    We all knew it.


  212. ZimPaul | July 26, 2012 at 3:29 pm
    Best comment I have read on here for some time.

  213. If de Nile has a helipad you could land for free.


    Has anyboby seen my cwider? 😉

  214. Ateeb – nobody wishes to deny your freedom of speech. Although it should be noted that there is no right to free speech on somebody else’s tab. It was suggested to you that there were more appropriate fora to express your political worldview. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Your insinuations that everyone who disagrees with you is a lackey of the ruling class do jar a little as does your implication that I’m ok with child slavery simply because I don’t like to see Aman sent to the fkoff room.

    FWIW I too am in agreement with the broader thrust of your argument. Peace x

  215. For me, there has been way too little facts over the last few days.

  216. Well done, Ateeb. You are a fighter and you have principles, and you stand up for them even in a storm of snarkery and patronisation….and I agree with you.

    Anyway we need our captain.

    Robin Van Persie…clickclickclick

    Robin Van Persie…clickclickclick

  217. Sahil – he has past form there.

  218. Ateeb,
    ” I was just commenting on the realities of football in a more holistic way………???”


  219. Just keep it quiet. I don’t want all these communists on here to know. OK?

    Plus, I have no intention of buying all the drinks when we go to The Arsenal.

    One or two helicopters, a yacht, a racehorses or two and people start getting the wrong idea about the sort of person you are and how much money you’ve got.

  220. Fuck off , Aman

  221. And just as peace and love was in the air…

  222. Frank – As one of the older members on this board, you are acting like a child. I think you need a (virtual) spanking.

  223. Frank – “Anyway we need our captain”

    You are right we do.

    Shame he does not see things the same way.

  224. The funny thing is Bob you actually HAVE done a lot of work for charity – but don’t like to talk about it.

  225. Yes you seem like the type, goonerandy.

  226. Your little perversion is it, son

  227. “Philmar,he will not go anywhere on reduced wages.His move will be all about wages ,His agent has said exactly that.”

    Greedy cunt?

  228. And just as Aman had negotiated his release Frank sends him back. I’m lighting a candle for you, brother.

  229. Frank, the war is over.

  230. You have a helicopter P.George???

    Such a sellout.
    owning a vehicle you fill with that dirty “blue manc” fuel…
    ya flying pasty’s gluttony’s allowing them take our dearest clickclickclick away from us, u meerkat oligarch!

    ….i heard AA hates u


  231. Harry @3.24 was way off. It lasted 36 minutes.

  232. Snarking about snarking and now being patronising about patronising, son?

    Hypocrisy suits you Frank – you should wear it more often! 🙂

  233. Frank – It is. My firm hand over a leathery and somewhat saggy backside. You just can’t beat it.

  234. No it isn’t, Paul-N. Some on here should be ashamed of themselves. A lesson in self-satisfied bullying.

  235. Jabberywocky,

    It might have seemed that I was having a go at the ‘Western’ ‘Imperialist-backing’ people, but that wasn’t really the case. It was on a particular issue-in reponse to the ‘dirty oil’ money. In general I don’t think the case is that of course. I don’t think the bourgeoisie chooses their own conditions in general either. The market reproduces it’s inequalities through primitive accumulation (that requires extra economic force) or through capital accumulation (which through the silent compulsion of the market recreates inequalities).

    I wasn’t being apologist for capital from the Emirates states at all. However, I do think it’s not too different from how things run in countries of the North. A lot of immigrants as well as their own local population are exploited at various scales and different ways even within the North. It’s difficult to associate capital with just one individual or one corporation because there exists the world market. Wealth concentrations exists in every country at every scale. It would be wrong to criticize just the ‘Arab capitalists’ or ‘Russian capitalists’ because of the fact that capital in an abstract sense also shuns nationalities. Hence the inflow and outflow of capital from different localities creating financial crisis. It’s easier to perhaps criticize the above mentioned because it seems they’re using extra economic forces, but the results are not too different from let’s say the finance capital that has wrecked havoc in the West-spilling over to the rest of the world. I think the object of critique rather than just national capital, should be the free markets-along with international organizations such as the WB and IMF. Both facilitated the form of neoliberal capitalism that exists as much in the North as it exists in the South. What else is austerity but another attack on the working classes-taking away the little ‘rights’ they were left with after the Washington Crisis. As for labour camps in Dubai-you’d be surprised to find out the similar living conditions for a lot of people in the West as well.

  236. I should have added a 😉 there I think.

    I prefer firm and toned. Now, where did George go?

  237. Yes Frank, the “war” is over.
    I’m f**ked back ON now…
    you’re too late.

  238. I am referring to comments towards Ateeb, Jonny….doesn’t matter about me. And yes you are up there with the best of them.

  239. pedantic george

    Philmar,Honest,I think.
    He says its his last move and money is paramount.
    Perhaps he should have said he wanted a club with ambition and a fair trade agreement .Oh,and to bring about world peace.

  240. WAR!

  241. You forgot the children George. Is Andrei really that much of an uncaring bastard?

  242. Frank – Don’t play the hero sticking up for somebody who has been “bullied”. Plenty on here over the years have had differing opinions with the masses, but I didn’t see you running to their aid. Some of his thoughts suits your little agenda so you have jumped on board. Predictable and a little bit sad.

  243. It is the sickly smugness that really sickens

  244. We should all take Pasennal’s advice and use the scroll button more, it will save you lot 😀 plenty of grief 😀 😀

  245. I have always stood up for Ateeb, goonerandy. I nearly got a job on my stall once. You just haven’t been around long enough.

  246. who else thinks Frank & Ateeb, click!click!click!, could do with some jianzi lessons?

  247. Wow..HE nearly got a job on my stall once..HEHEHEHE

  248. You know what, YW……

  249. Frank, I have found some of your reactions distasteful as you have mine. There comes a time when you forgive and move on. Thats what American Christianity has taught me.

    hee hee

  250. Frank – Ateeb and I made peace earlier (and I think it’s clear you care not a jot for my thoughts).

    Who are you actually directing your rage at and why?

    It would surely be better if we ALL show some humour and humility. Everything does not have to be so serious.

    Which, if I might gently suggest, was Ateeb’s mistake to start with.

  251. ateeb – you’re preaching to the choir. The only reason this forum discusses ‘dirty oil money’ and oligarchs/sheikhs as it is they who have bought our rivals and are trying to buy us. Kroenke is not a saint – no one with that much money has clean hands. However, if DOW Chemicals/McDonalds/*insert huge evil Western corporation here* bought Tottenham and pumped billions in to them then you would see the ‘dirty burger money’ comments – it’s not eurocentric or imperialist, it’s throwing insults at people who deserve them and who also happen to own football clubs – and it is also part of a larger scheme to create a bridgehead as Frank has alluded to on numerous occasions. Imperialism/neo-liberalism is unpalatable no matter where it comes from – but as this is a football blog, the ire is saved for those sticking their hands in football and scewing the finances of it even more grossly than had happened before

  252. It’s hilarious that Goonerandy get’s away with ‘I don’t care about child commodification/slavery’ without any ‘behave’ from anyone, but someone pointing out that exists in football is attacked from various angles. I am wondering when Zp is going to write a lyrical piece on it-empty of content while full of pedagogical ‘advices’. And then he wants to give me an advice. And before I am attacked again, most of the so called ‘civilized’ people didn’t utter a single word on that non sense from Goonerandy. That is what football has reduced most of ‘you’.

  253. Yogi swearing

    Frank calling people out for bullying

    Ateeb dreaming about that blood/oil money

    Bill marked out as ‘normal’ kid of the blog

    What’s happened to my beloved ACLF family?

    Thank god for the ladies….

  254. Johnnyela,

    I am sure you find child slavery full of humour. So my mistake amongst other things, was to point out how football operates in general. Get a grip over yourself. Don’t make me start again.

  255. Ateeb @ 4:26…wow.
    how old are you dude?

  256. “He says its his last move and money is paramount.
    Perhaps he should have said he wanted a club with ambition and a fair trade ”

    Crap. His agent publicly stated money is paramount because it is his last contract? F8ck me. That ought to dwindle the market down considerably.
    Is he deliberately sticking it to us? First he slags off Russian fans, now this. All he needs to do now to completely dry up his list of potential employers is to publicly support Israel settlement in the Golan heights.
    Maybe he’d prefer to earn his wages on the Arsenal reserves. At least he’s in London.
    Never understood why Arsene wouldn’t at least give him a few more games as creative MF aganst the Stoke, Bolton, Wolves of the world. C’mon Arsene, at least give the lil’ guy a chance to be motivated and prove something, if even for the sake of squad rotation.

  257. pedantic george

    Heaven forbid that people should come onto an Arsenal blog and be concerned with Arsenal and football.
    Ateeb reminds me of this charming fellow

  258. Aman,

    Refer to my comments addressed to you before.

  259. Ateeb – Last time I checked there wasn’t an ideological purity test to supporting The Arsenal. You seem incapable of grasping the point that while we will all have political differences, that doesn’t really matter because we’re commenting on an Arsenal supporters’ blog, and our love of The Arsenal can transcend them. I don’t think anyone really took GA seriously when he joked about child slavery. You seem incapable of recognising humour. That is what your pompous adherence to a po-faced politics has reduced you.

  260. Harry Flowers

    “It’s hilarious that Goonerandy get’s away with ‘I don’t care about child commodification/slavery”

    I believe it was an off-hand comment said in “jest”. That’s how I took it. Crass maybe, but certainly no more than that. It didn’t warrant anyone beating him about the head with an Amnesty International pamphlet.

    This is tiresome now.


  261. old would that be Ateeb?

  262. And no one censored you for threatening to physically disable me yesterday…

    It’s a blog – some words offend more than others – people unconsciously and consciously overlook the nastiness of those they agree with whilst attacking others for lesser crimes.

    Sooner or later someone evokes Godwin’s law and we start again.

    Best practice is totry not to be a cunt.

    We all fail (and repeatedly!) but we’re all in the same boat and we want the same thing – the journey is the main thing though. Always the journey – those who want success at any cost are missing the valuable bit about football but, more importantly, of life.

  263. @Ateeb
    I would assume it’s because while most people probably don’t share his opinion, they have accepted that that’s the reality of it. We live in the privileged world and everyone else … well, they don’t. But almost no one would switch their privileged life for something less. So actually if anyone had attacked him for that comment, it would’ve been a good example of the hypocrisy you’ve criticised over the past few days. We all feel for those people that lead a worse life than we do, but we only stand from afar watching, not ready to get our hands dirty to change anything.

  264. pedantic george

    By the way,where would I go about getting a child slave?One would come in handy for walking my dog..

  265. ok Ateeb..u can say it in hours not years…come on…

  266. Ateeb, how does spending more and paying more line up with your sensibilites?

  267. Harry Flowers

    George that comment doesn’t really help matters. Just a thought.

  268. Maria,
    “What’s happened to my beloved ACLF family?”

    I call it the summertime curse of Captain click!click!click!…

  269. But was very funny tho.

  270. Yes I DO Ateeb! I read history books about slavery and cry tears of joy. It’s hilarious. Always has been. As I write this a Filipino child is my foot rest and I am waiting for the latets container of Romanian hookers to arrive.

    Fucking hell dude – just what are you saying of someone??

    I had not even read Andy’s comment – but I know him well enough to see him as a person.

    Judge a man by his actions – that’s perhaps where the internet or blog comments fall down.

    Please don’t make me regret the twig of peace I offered. This is getting deeply silly and offensive.

    What has happened to you??!!!!

  271. It’s amazing to watch people flock to defend a comment which shouldn’t even be said in ‘jest’. Hilarious. As much as it was when pointing out that exists in the first place.


    I didn’t threaten you physically. I said by the time I am done with you-you won’t come online for a week. Which given the state of your comments can be achieved with a short 20 minute discussion on the internet-regarding your views on football.

  272. I can just see a meerkat walking a dog…lol!

  273. pedantic george

    Jeez Harry.
    What is it coming to?

  274. FFS – it made me chuckle and yet I still find the thought abhorrent.

    Humour = tragedy + distance.

  275. ateeb – making a point in an aggressive manner just means people dont take that point seriously. There are certain subjects which are divisive, and you can either spend your whole life fighting your corner in them in every forum you come across or just accept that people are different and dont hold the same view. This is why I sometimes take issue with the whole atheism debate that andy & jonny pursue on a regular basis – I agree with both of them wholeheartedly, but despite this they aren’t going to convince anyone of faith to change their mind (sorry guys – not meant to be a dig…just illustrating the problems of debating religion/politics in spheres where might not be the most appropriate…like football blogs).

    I work with plenty of people that dont agree with me politically or with matters of faith (my lack thereof) – but I can either choose to have office banter with them and a pint after work on a Friday, or I can spend every minute arguing with them about it when there is no need. I choose the former.

  276. pedantic george

    I was of course joking.I have a Muskrat that walks my dog for me.I wouldn’t want to see him out of a job.

  277. In my youth I’d have been knee-deep into this debate. And probably talking utter bollocks. *Sigh*

  278. The Japan olympic team is a testament to football, absolutely incredible workrate, and every single one of these players must have been chosen for their speed, i mean they were all rapid. But spain didnt dominate, they were utterly shit to be honest.

    Japan by comparison were incredible for me, they were quality and i wouldn’t mind one or two of their players at Arsenal. One player called saito caught the eye as well.

    But i just wanted to take my hat off to Japan, you could see how much it meant to them at the final whistle with a few tears. National heart and pride.

  279. Harry Flowers

    No offence George. It’s just that I am bit of a politically correct old prig. Some things I try not to make jokes about. Horses for courses. And it will only inflame things in the playground.

    Also Ateeb…I wasn’t defending it. I said it was crass. People say crass things all the time. Y’know. It was a flip remark (I believe) more than that.

    Good day to you.

    Over and out.

  280. Ateeb, how does Arsenal spending more on players and paying said players more line up with your worldview?

  281. there is NO COMPULSION in religion….faith….supporting Arsenal….or any aspect of life

  282. Harry! Don’t go. Let’s go for that pint.

  283. Don’t talk to me jonnyneale. Ateeb’s argument has persuaded me that your abhorrent joke about Filipino foot-rests has revealed you to be an ideologically contaminant who I shall shun like all right-minded people should.

    I like your humour equation though

  284. ateeb – Shit man, lighten up. Incidentally, I have been “attacked” plenty on here. Meh, it is all in the name on debate. As long as it does not get personal it is no biggie. I certainly have never told anybody to fuck off as you have today.

    Jabberwocky – All good mate.

  285. I am shocked that most people who spared a thought to child slavery-could only contribute through ‘jests’ and ‘jokes’. Sad state of affairs.

    So since we’ve established that most of you are assholes, I think that the whole debate about ‘the right ethical and moral’ way of running the club should be thrown into the bin.

    RVP click click click………………

  286. Does ANYBODY want to go for a pint?

  287. Ateeb, as a past recipient of perceived excessive insults i tried to temper the name calling yesterday. I agreed with some of what you were saying but came to the realisation that the debate had become too emotional to discuss properly. At some point you just have to realise that the people you’re speaking to are NOT receptive to your points. Just drop it and go watch kittens on YouTube. Come back another time when all is forgotten. and your mood is better.The alternative is just to get yourself more pissed off and alienated.

  288. Jonny have you broken twitter again?

  289. Ateeb first – you can’t even manage to read my name and spell it correctly. It’s easy just call me Jonny.

    Secondly what you said was

    “Go fuck yourself. By the time I am done with you would be off the internet for quite a long time. I am not engaging you dimwits at all.”

    If that was not an actual physical threat then I fail to see how it was meant to manifest. The pen metaphor is just a metaphor as any duelist would contest.

    Thirdly – dude you ARE a valued contributor but you seem to have lost all sense of humour.

    It does not have to be like this.

  290. Yup, count me in Bob.

  291. The thing is that most of us know that Andy is a tool of the imperialist oppressors.

  292. I agree with ZimPaul at 3:29 pm.

    Heck, I always agree with ZimP.

    BTW: Speaking of life experiences, when it comes to financial madness that is simply making life harder for the descendants and victims of chattel slavery, I am sorry but I can’t find a middle ground. I have walked away from the boxing game and most other professional sports because they are consumed by greed and hype. Hopefully Arsenal FC will never take on the worst excesses of these money-making sporting entities.

  293. “How can you pay £20m for a player and this player is never taken into consideration?”'forced'-me-to-leave-on-loan?cc=3888

    sorry Alberto but thats not enough money to guarantee you a shirt in the new dumb-world order.
    You’d have to be worth 60m at least.
    Ask Fernando & that pony-tailed team mate of yours.

    understand the envy,
    we have AW!

  294. let’s try this again – i command you to embed!

  295. Oh, and for those of a nrevous disposition, I am mending the stone.

  296. Righto FFS – last question, does it help at all that he seems to enjoy it?

  297. anyone else know how to embed? keep ‘copying embed html’ from youtube but not working like it did before. sigh, I fear any slight humour of my Music Thursday’s contribution has now been tarnished by this technological mishap

  298. “As I write this a Filipino child is my foot rest and I am waiting for the latets container of Romanian hookers to arrive.”

    Are the Romanians coming from Canada?

  299. Harry Flowers

    Cheers for the offer Bob! Maybe we will have that pint one day. Sorry that should have read: maybe you can buy me that pint one day.

    Play fair now ladies. Queensberry rules.

  300. Jabberwocky just cut and paste the html. Simples!

  301. Oh Christ – just work round the stone Bob; we’ve lost Twitter now.

    Sorry Jonny, it’s normally you, tho.

  302. to you, to you and finally to you…

    cheers jonny!

  303. “So since we’ve established that most of you are assholes, I think that the whole debate about ‘the right ethical and moral’ way of running the club should be thrown into the bin”

    that being said…
    so Ateeb, HOW OLD did you say you are again?
    …click click click?

  304. Are you in London, AA? Don’t know how the internet works but I can’t get onto twitter or google chat. Thought it might have something to do with some event that’s meant to be happening. Whatever, I’m running out of ways to waste time.

  305. Jonny,

    There are some things which should never be joked about. I am not going to teach you that. If you haven’t already realized that child slavery isn’t something to be joked about than there is something definitely wrong with you.

  306. Cheers backatcha. You should post more often. 🙂

  307. oh…it is music thursday….yes aya:

  308. i very rarely catch the debate early, so by the time i’ve caught up most people have gone home…unless like today I elect to do absolutely no work and spend the entire day refreshing the screen and submitting my 2 cents…if only I could find a way of doing both…

  309. Birdkamp – Ateeb has started the revolution with Frank. They’re coming for all us smug assholes, but especially Johnny, George and Goonerandy. Don’t make any jokes and perhaps they’ll leave you alone.

  310. Bpb – Ha, this could be true. I will still take you up on your offer of a pint though.

    Ateeb – Jesus man, it was a light hearted quip, if you are genuinely offended by that….. That is your problem.

  311. *Bob*

  312. Birdkamp – yes, I’m in North London and the heat appears to be affecting EVERYTHING this week …

    But as far as Twitter goes it’s a toss-up between Bob’s gung-ho approach to that stone of his and Jonny probably trying to embolden his last tweet or part of it and snapping it.

    Think he broke Facebook earlier but they managed to fix that.

    Might get Ateeb to threaten to break his fingers again.

  313. Ateeb – You need take take up your beef about child slavery with our manager I would wager 😉

  314. pedantic george

    Being called smug ,makes me feel a bit smug actually.Given who is calling me smug.
    I think?

  315. Ateeb NOTHING is beyond humour – comedy has proved that over and again.

    9/11 = 911 coincidence?

    In fact there is a causal link between delivery and surprise that is integral to all humour. The ratio is often and frequently expanded (for greater laughs) by making the surprise bigger. What’s a bigger surprise? A shocking one.

    Shock and humour are provably inextricably linked. But and this is crucial it does not form a significant value on someone’s judgement system – which has has also been tested and proved.

    In short I have laughed at jokes (along with billions of others) not because I condone the result but because I find it shocking. if you don;t understand how jokes work because you have no sense of humour or have not read enough about it then I suggest you beat yourself to death with a book.

    Not a big joke but you get the idea I am in no way serious.

    Eh? Eh? Oh.

  316. There are some things which should never be joked about. I am not going to teach you that. If you haven’t already realized that child slavery isn’t something to be joked about than there is something definitely wrong with you.

    Everything in the human experience can be joked about. That’s what we do, we’re the monkeys who laugh.

    Even the Jewish Chronicle concedes that, dependent on context, holocaust jokes are not always beyond the pale.

    For the last time; lighten up. Please.

  317. just to remind us of “why” we are here today..
    I think getting Santi Carzola would add up to money VERY WELL spent!

    His presence would erase the last traces of a certain Francesc(a)… for me anyway.

  318. Ateeb – Seriously mate. Never ever watch Jerry Sadowitz. You would explode.

  319. FFS If ateeb’s name was j*bber he’d have been binned by now. I understand he used to post here for some time, but that was then. Its time he fucked off. Frank’s devotion to him is commendable but ultimately flawed as it gives ateeb the impression Frank actually agrees with his random bollocks, which he doesnt.

    Your points have been smashed to pieces, your patronising, condescesion would be bad enough on its own, but backed up with a completely clueless idea of football makes you look even more of an idiot.

    We are all fucking well aware of the state of football, Arsenal’s part in it etc. It doesnt mean we can’t comment on it or other negative aspects of the game.

    Thing is, in your increasingly bile filled rants it seems clear you dont even like Arsenal very much, or football.

    Fuck knows why you persist with posting on here? I know for a fact there are many who are purposely staying away from this blog because they don’t want to get involved in this shite out of a degree of respect for old timers like Frank and you.

    Fuck knows why TBH?

  320. Where is Irish when you need him? Always good for jokes.

    Sorry FFS – I read your advice too late.

  321. Notoverthehill

    Yogi, where is ALL the money in China, stashed? China?

    Now for money making The Arsenal way. CRM – Customer Relationship Management or Capital for Robin’s Moneybox!

    Charles Allen, the geezer who is (was) Arsenal’s Head of Marketing, tells us that there are 10.5 millions of Arsenal Facebook fans and Twitter with 1.5 millions of followers. NOW if we can find the technology with Arsenal Broadband to link ALL these “victims of Capital for Robin’s Moneybox” (NO! Yogi, NOT Moneybags); to their own bespoke – membership.

    At an annual fee of £15, we can blow the lot on THE TEAM! Cbobs, give up your Consolidated and invest in Arsenal Broadband Ltd., if you can.

  322. So it’s Jonny’s fault again. But he never stopped to think about where we’d all go for out dose of transfer innuendo.

    I’m blaming everything that goes wrong near me on the Olympics – it’s already stolen three out of four local train stations, a third of the roads and two bus routes.

    Yeah, I’ve been observing, FFSS. I’m out of my depth to say the least, but I can get behind what ZP says about respect!


  323. Dex,
    i think if you know how old Ateeb is you’d cut him some slack (too).

  324. Dexter – arriving like Gandalf to cut through right the shit.

    Andy – yes Sadowitz! Lolzzz.

    Or Hicks, Murphy, Rock, Carlin, Jeffries, Connolly – in reality almost any ‘modern’ comedian.

    FFS – nice on the chronicles.

  325. Ateeb, no?

    I don’t believe your argument of Arsenal spending more and your world view can line up. People are being exploited but not the players; the people that make the balls, Jerseys and football boots are. What you should be arguing for is Arsenal to take the profit and buy “cups” and plates for poor people and put some food and drink on and in them. If the money is not going to the less fortunate, who cares where it goes? Make the players richer and tickets prices go up so we can boast about winning things and hope the poor players will not leave? let them leave, I couldn’t care less.

  326. It was Dexter’s fault once. Poo bags.

    Ah well if you’re going to break something do it well.

    *and then blame the Filipino*

  327. dedicated to our very own..Ateeb….click!click!click!

  328. ZimPaul and PaulN;

    I wish I could post shit like you dudes.


    Bill Hicks…. Legend

  329. Given today’s conversation, Notoverthehill’s broken mind seems positively lucid.

    Sorry to be a smug bully about it.

    Dexter – stop denying Ateeb’s freedom of speech 🙂

  330. Hahaha! But I nmake it you have broken the blog at least twice now Jonny!

  331. Dex you post your own shit all the time.

  332. Jonny – Yeah, Hicks was great.

  333. Birdkamp – it all started to go tits up when all that rain went away if you ask me.

    But I reckon you are right to blame the Olympics for a little local congestion here in London Village.

    It’ll pass in, ooh, five to six weeks, maybe?

    And in any case, London’s quite big – we can easily spare a lane for the buses and another one for the hourly Olympic athlete. Were you really using those stations you say you’ve lost?


  334. FFS Shoot;

    I know, I should stop oppressing people. me being a social worker n all.

    Football is a microcosm of modern western society; instant gratification, over consumption, wealth means everything and is how one is rated, gimme gimme gimme mentality and a sense of entitlement, with no one taking responsibility for their actions.

    It IS fucked and that IS the paradox that becomes increasingly difficult to face each season.

  335. There is a reason they refer to comedy as making light of something. No topic should be out of bounds, no matter how dark.

  336. More than that Dex. More than that.

    These days I approach the italics with trepidation of rousing YW’s fury.

    I hate being handicapped by a lack of ‘accent’ and then also by the fear of the fear of fucking it up.

    Fucking fragile tinterweb.

    P.S. The postie is really getting fed up of it – can you use better packaging? And why always first class – just how highly do you think of yourself man?

  337. Jonny;

    Actually you’re right AND I also hate everyone on this blog too. 🙂

  338. Ah, I miss the italics Jonny! I havent dared use my newly acquired skills for the same reason as you;

    Yogi’s a Bully!

  339. “Twitter is currently down for {%= reason %}”

    Does this mean their ‘Twitter is currently down’ message is also down?

    Oh, hang on, a new one’s just appeared:

    “Twitter is currently down for {%jonnyneale%}”.

    Glad that’s sorted.

  340. I have not broken the blog..

  341. It IS fucked and that IS the paradox that becomes increasingly difficult to face each season.

    Whoa. Way to bring the tone down man. I for one am looking forward to when this season actually starts.

    Gaze in wonder at my easy mastery of basic html skills.

  342. Sorry FFS Shoot! Just being Frank!

    That IS the paradox for me though. It goes against my values, yet I am more excited about this season coming up than any for years man. I am torn! But I always come back, always renew too.

  343. Dex, just put Paul in your name. hee hee!

    Thanks mi bredrin!!

    After pondering this, I have come to the conclusion that it is not as noble as it seems. You see, the drug king pin and the worker on the corner are one and the same in my book.

    Also, the players bear no culpability in Ateeb’s thinking. Did SK cause us to lost the CC Final, did he cause us to not win the PL in 07-08 and 09-10 seasons when it was well within our grasp?

    Is it me of has this team that his wants to throw under the bus repeatedly stuck by crocked players? were is the credit for that?

  344. Funnily enough in real life I often get the blame for things – even if they are out of my control or weren’t my fault. “Must have been Jonny” is a common refrain.

    Guess I have to accept I am just a cosmic boob.

  345. Right, that’s the stone fixed.

    It was missing an ‘L’ shaped piece on one corner but now it is perfectly hexagonal. I’ve erected four flower beds symetrically around it and a bench to sit on and contemplate. You know, feel the power.

  346. Reality dawns for one poster here.

  347. I’m already at peace with it.

    After all what is better than a boob or, by extrapolation, more powerful than a ‘boob of the cosmos’?

    Irish will know, I’m sure.

  348. Jabber – loving the wrongness of that post.

    This is my favourite Stanhope.

  349. Actually, and I’ve wondered about it on occasion, when I walk under lamposts, they sometimes go out.

  350. i quite like his take on the monarchy…very true 🙂

  351. 🙂

  352. Watch out for Bob’s helicopter featured with the Red Arrows in the Olympic Opening Ceremony flypasty.

  353. jonny lo0ved that, my new favourite!

  354. It’s taken me all day to get the exact wording for that joke. Not worth it? Probably – but think of all the aggro I’ve been spared.

  355. Jabber – he is totally awesome. Bit Hicksish – nothing is untouchable.

  356. Merlot – I liked it!

  357. Borges Spinelli

    Boa tarde ACLFers!

    For the life of me, I can’t fathom why Arsene (if true) would put in a bid for Cazorla. This report has the hallmark of a media concoction. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a fantastic player to watch; seasoned professional; has tournament experience etc etc….however, his presence in the squad could unsettle the likes of Ryo (remember him?), Gervinho and Walcott. Unless he is pipped to replace the latter.

  358. Harry Flowers

    At the risk of getting shot down or sounding like a self-righteous arsehole…there’s a world of difference in what someone like Hicks (genius) was attempting to do through humour and someone merely making nasty “ironic” jokes about other people’s misfortune. People who usually live in a country a long way away.

    There’s a habit to react to any world disaster or even someone’s personal misfortune with a quick gag or quip. It creates this culture of irony and recreational cruelty. Sneering at the misfortune of others. Hicks was never about that.

    Hey-ho. Pompous bollocks maybe, but whatever.

  359. Yep, AA.

    Minor inconvenience, definitely. I predict the Olympics will bring everyone together, in their droves, crammed into trains, in obeisance of corporate dignitaries who’ll ride around in police escorts and in fear of reprisals for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Btw, my brother’s been asked to do a few photo expeditions to the Olympic park. I’m pretty excited for him.

  360. Thank you. Jonny. Made it all worthwhile.

  361. Harry – I think you are comparing apples and oranges but i cannot comment because I have no idea as to what you are comparing hicks to?

  362. Spinelli

    Boa tarde amigo.

    BUT IF the Cazorla rumours are true and Wenger has stated that we are in for him. His presence wouldnt harm anyone we currently have as he can play all across the midfield, even defensive. He could well be played in the central AM position, as well as wide left or right.

    Ryo will be loaned this season BTW.

  363. Harry;

    Hicks is peerless IMO.

  364. Al I have a close friend in the opening ceremony – been sworn to divine secrecy but he claims it is “surprising”.

    Merlot – excellent – t’was a genuine laugh. But then I have been drinking – which, with your name, you’ll hopefully forgive.

  365. Borges Spinelli, its been a minute! you good?

  366. True Dex but not for LOL humour – more a genius translator of the ugly truth of humanity.

  367. guerin sportivo anyone?
    just “discovered” the oldest sports magazine on the planet….

  368. Outta here – peace to all.

  369. Borges Spinelli,
    Santi Carzola is not a winger.
    He’s essentially a complete attacking midfielder
    Closest comparisons…Cesc & Silva
    @ least for his national team

    just youtube him…

  370. “Ryo will be loaned this season BTW.”

    c’mon, don’t say that Dex.
    I’m really looking forward to seeing him play for us this year.

  371. That’s cool, Jonny. Wait, what does surprising mean?

    In May 96 when I was 12 I was at Willesden Sports Centre and witnessed a rehearsal for what turned out to be the bland opening ceremony to Euro 96 – although I had no idea at the time. I know that story is too amazing, but there you go.

  372. Carzola annuls any fear of a loss in quality with TR down.
    He’ll probably keep TR on the bench

  373. Doug Stanhope is an ignorant less-traveled dumbass…

  374. Ryo will be loaned this season BTW

    Whoa. Way to bring the tone down again Dex. I’m desperate to see him in action for us. I’m drooling at the thought of him and Theo destroying defences with pure pace.

  375. Aman;

    Sorry bro, I just think it is in his best interests man. Get more playing time and all that.

    I see the squad as pretty well stocked, APART from the CAM spot. AM left; Podolski and Gervinho; AM Right Theo & AOC. CAM; ??? & AOC.

    Perhaps cazorla is a red herring, but a player of his ilk would benefit the team in many ways. his versatility definitely appeals to AW, seeing as we tried to sign him last season.

    I was initially unsure and sceptical, but the mnore i see and read about himn, the more i think he would be an amazing signing for us.

  376. ..and Carzola’s more 2-footed than both Cesc & Silva.
    in fact he just might be about the most truly 2-footed player I have seen ever!
    ( i’m still thinking who else though..)

  377. Nice post again yogi:

    Hope we get Cazorla. Bringing him into the team before the bitter end of the window and most notably before we sell anyone would certainly be a welcome departure from our standard MO and a very happy change from the way we managed last years summer disaster. Hope it represents a long term change to our approach. In the past we would have hoped to get by with Aaron while we waited for TR7 and JW to get healthy. Hurrah, Go Arsene, Go Ivan, Go Stan.

    Enjoying the spicy debate in the last few days.

  378. Haha! I just cant help myself can I? Sorry AGAIN!

  379. Retracted what to you, YW?

  380. Dex,
    Ryo might just be a better winger than Ox
    and all it’d take is an injury to Theo or Gerv and we’d be wishing we hadn’t loaned him out.

    I also don’t see Poldi as a winger,
    that was then.

  381. …and what precisely is ‘coming to an end’ as well, YW?

  382. got some sort of editorial board going here, YW?

  383. You can rest assured that I will certainly not be calling anyone a cunt on this site again, YW

  384. Dex,
    to clarify, my expectations are:

    our FOUR wingers:
    Gerv, Theo, Ryo, Ox

    FOUR centre forwards:
    RvP, Poldi, OG, Park?

    EIGHT central midfielders:
    Song, Arteta, Diaby, Jack, Ramsey, Rosicky, Coquelin, maybe Arshavin
    (or Carzola)

    Frimp, Afobe, Aneke, Henderson, Miquel, Yennaris

    sadly I don’t see us keeping AA if we sign Santi.

  385. pedantic george


  386. I’m intrigued by CBob’s hexagonal philospher’s stone. There are lot’s rocks where I am, really lots, different shapes. The entire place is one big rock. But, nope nothing even vaguely hexagonal, L-shped or symmetrical in any way. Ah, but now I’ve thought of thousands.

    The lesser Ronaldo is two-footed. That’s what marked him out early. He’s also such a distasteful character.

  387. In case anyone is not sure. Bringing in Podolski, Giroud, and Cazorla in time to get in a good preseason with the club and doing it before we sell anyone is treading dangerously close to the mythical middle ground that I have been talking about. If we bring in all 3 new players and don’t sell RVP or Theo this summer we will have jumped in with all guns blazing. Go Arsene, Go Ivan, Go Stan.

    However, if we end up not getting Cazorla for some reason and we sell RVP and/or Theo and end up close to even of may be even make another transfer profit then we are right back where we started. Will be interesting how it all works out.


    with regard to your comment at 1:37AM last night, I thought that Silvertre came over on the free. Obviously my memory was wrong, my bad. Does not change anything about the bigger point of the discussion.

  388. thanks ZP,
    ok our pure 2-footed list are:

    Santi Carzola
    Cristiano Ronaldo

    wasn’t Hleb also?

  389. Borges Spinelli

    Dexter & Aman,

    Your assessment seems plausible – particularly the part about Ryo going out on-loan to a ‘smaller’ club to hone his footballing skills. Though, according to Wikipedia, Cazorla, plays out on the flank – no mention of him ever playing in the number 10 or volante role. On the other hand, Arshavin was a CAM for club and prior to joining Arsenal. Suffice to say, we all are aware of how his reputation began to falter, playing out of position for us (sorry PG).


    My ace, I’m good. Trying hard to keep  body and soul together.  I trust y’all have been holding the fort down in my absence from the comments section (I read every blog post by YW, without fail, nevertheless). How is Frank these days? Still cranky? Lol :o) :o)

  390. Frank,

    The name calling crap from eveyone is coming to end. I’m tired of it all, nothing is achieved by it.

    I have a child who has an Autistic Spectrum Disorder which manifests in creating conflict where none need arise. The love I have for that boy is beyond words but it is draining. My respite is to read the words of people who love Arsenal; it’s why I started tbe blog, or one of the reasons at least. If you think I gain any joy whatsoever from reading people telling each other to “Fuck Off”, you are sadly mistaken.

    I’m easy going to a point and that point moves on a daily basis but I am not taking shit from anyone.

    We’ve “known” each other for a long time, I haven’t forgotten the support and encouragement that you and Flint gave in the early days – and since – but, and this bit isn’t directed solely at you, disagreements on viewpoints happen. They can be resolved without people who know better, resorting to telling others to “Fuck Off”.

    If that is editorial control, yes it’s happening. Reasonable people will accept that. Those that can’t, well, you know what’s next…

  391. Ateeb,

    Not sure what is going on with you. Have you been eating some english forest mushrooms ? Not really sure what is behind your accusations. Do you think we are a bunch of imperalists ? I don’t know if you know the expression, but most people I know, including members of my own family, have got a very small pot to piss in. The empire died a hundred years ago. We are mostly ignorant of what happened, and the only imperalism around now seems to be the chinese going around buying up giant, large, medium and even small sized corporations. Yes, the chinese are setting up mines in places like Africa and providing employment, but at the same time they are worryingly becoming dominant in terms of ownership. As for other countries, everybody else is broke. The world economy, interconnected, is broke. If somebody decides to stop importing some particular brand of toilet roll somewhere, we are all screwed. Nobody is immune to the effects.

    As for the comments about “dirty oil money”, I don’t have axe to grind about. I have worked in Abu Dhabi and my company benefited from business there. Don’t confuse tabloidesque throwaway remarks with the sense of injustice of allowing a team to have unlimited expenditure – it doesn’t matter what the source of income is. You may ask what the difference is between institutionalised investment and Abu Dhabi. Ultimately, morally, there may not be a difference, it is just the amounts of money involved. Abu Dhabi can afford to pump money in remorselessly because they are creating huge amounts of good will for the UAE, and inparticular the UAE Plc. This is unfair, surely ? To have a squad that is essentially an advertising front for a whole country. Bringing imperalism into it is wide of the mark.

    There is a degree of sanctimony that I don’t agree with, where it goes to far. Sure. Cynics argue that the arsenal shareholders have done very well out of the success of the club, whilst the supporters have paid for it. But that is another argument. There is a lot of sanctimony about our current “sustainable model” as well. How many supporters would be secretly happy if Kroenke suddenly made £500 million available though, and upped the wage scales ? Nobody is perfect. Accuse people of hypocrisy, even me. But I still think that Chelsea and City are getting away with murder. A lot of hard work by teams down the drain because of their financial power.

  392. I’d hate to think of what Ateeb thinks of me since my mother was carried from Communist Karl-Marx-Stadt to Bad Kissingen on my grandmothers back and my father was an Imperialist American soldier.

  393. Enough OK. Ateeb has been gracious enough to accept there may have been flawd in his delivery, we do the same.

  394. Whats next has already happened, YW

    There are so many things I could say in response to you, but I won’t.

    With as much sincerity as a blog comments ‘character’ can muster I congratulate you on the stuff you do each day.

    You have moved such a long way with the blog, but you are now moving in a direction that ‘Frank’ cannot survive in. I think it is about time he retired, don’t you?

    Keep up the good work…but do take that holiday soon, you silly cunt.

  395. Fair enough and point taken.


  396. Piss off ya useless tosser, we’ll have that beer you owe me yet 😉

  397. Just want to say how much I’ve enjoyed reading the blog for the last five years, YW. FWIW of course.

    This reminds me of the perspective line Spinal Tap when they visit Elvis

  398. whoops YW. Apologies.

    On Arsenal matters, is there any good news on the arsenal front ?

  399. I get it now…
    “Frank” IS RvP!

    “you can’t leave till next year ya useless tosser…we love U!”

  400. not you too Big Al?
    i’m expecting to read YOU tomorrow…pls don’t be late!

  401. Muppet, I am still excited about the Podolski and Giroud signings? The Kos signing is excellent also. And then there is Diaby.

  402. (i feel so alone..)

    where is everybody?



  403. aaah Paul-N….(phew)
    …ahem, Diaby, me too…

    can’t wait till Jack arrives

  404. Paul-N,

    Very exciting time to be an arsenal fan, very exciting indeed.

    Looking forward to the new season.

  405. Muppet @ 7:35:

    “There is a lot of sanctimony about our current “sustainable model” as well. How many supporters would be secretly happy if Kroenke suddenly made £500 million available though, and upped the wage scales ?”

    Noooooooooooooo, that can’t be true, say it ain’t so!! 🙂

  406. so ateeb and frank have now resorted to slagging off our more refined regulars eh…….tossers.

  407. Bill,

    Ha ha. It’s a tough one.

  408. Aman, I’m around bro.

    Yeh Muppet, and hopefully a couple more of the yutes push through. I am hoping to see Frimpong to get healthy and come back stronger; he is one of my favorite Arsenal players. My hero, right Aman? lol.


    can u imagine RvP going to Juve, winning the scudetto and having to return his medal due to confirmed match-fixing a-la Vieira while we do the PURPLE DOUBLE and OG breaks his scoring record?

    that’d hurt quite a bit.

  410. Borges Spinelli


    My pure two-footed player list:

    Ronaldo (Madrid)
    Menes (PSG)
    Lucas Moura 
    Renato Augusto
    Lovren (Lyon)

  411. Mmmm… a weird comments day; also have a child on the far end of the Autism spectrum, YW; she cannot even speak (is 13) ~ understand the strain, and as a single dad, the pain of the SS taking her away for ‘safety’ etc. etc. Still, seems a shame there is no place for ‘ugly’ debate; it will, maybe, become such an in-house anodyne ‘comments’ section that even Arseblog will be more fun, As Jonny said: “Your house; your rules.” Pero, que pena!

  412. the Frimp?
    hell yeah Paul-N
    an enforcer in the making…already

  413. nice list there BSpinelli, do u have an active player list?

  414. Muppet:

    I quickly raised my hand and said “OOOO RAH” when I read that part of your post. I think we should start a rumour and see what happens.

  415. MLS All stars beat Chelsea yesterday, Roma beat Liverpool also.

  416. Pity we take ourselves so seriously, hey? I support YW’s notion on the grounds of encouraging use of words and images other than swear words. The insults and innuendo are far superior, and more interesting.

  417. that’s imagery, not images …

  418. Bill,

    It depends on the type of investment. If the investment is part of a standard business model i.e. a return on investment is expected, and achieved, then that would be acceptable. The Abramovich and UAE model is either, in the case of Amramovich, the money will never be recouped, or for Mansour, recouped in goodwill generated through the publicity for the UAE and Abu Dhabi. I don’t think this would sit well with arsenal fans.

  419. Borges Spinelli

    Please, define what you mean by an active player list, Aman

  420. *Passing by* Meh.

  421. Muppet @ 9:11:

    I have said this before but I bet no Arsenal fan would skip the parade if we won the PL or CL because Arsene spent $100M tomorrow and never had to pay it back. However I may be wrong. Its possible you could find 1 person and may be even 2 if you were able to searched the whole world. 🙂

    I am a bit sorry to see Tim Cahill leave the PL and go to New York Red Bulls. He is a unique player and I always admired the way he was able to score headers for a man his size.

  422. Tony

    There is room for ugly debate. As ZP says, insults and innuendo are more interesting that a simple ‘fuck off’.

  423. As someone who has followed this blog for a few years I must say today’s has been one of the most interesting and frustrating I can remember. YW, you are masterful and we all know it. Without your patience and efforts supporting Arsenal and allowing all of us a beautiful place to truly advance dialogue and understanding regarding the world of Arsenal and football the world would be a paler shade of gray. The rythm, ebb and flow, and energy on display today has been cracking, from the mental imagery of CBob’s machine gun laden flying pasty somehow involved in the opening ceremonies to Ateeb’s froth-laden monologues it has truly been an excellent experience. You can’t make this shit up!

  424. Manuel Pellegrini, coach of Malaga is being quoted a saying:
    “There is an offer, they say, for Santi Cazorla.
    “To sell him for €20 million would be to give him away. I don’t think the club intends to do that.”
    Further in the ESPN article there is a quote which implies that they might have to sell. To me it seems he wants to start an auction and get some bidders. Crafty bastard.
    Something is definitely cooking. Contrary to all the b.s. that is spewed here and elsewhere we know the club will bid, if it hasn’t done so already, but our bid could be blown out of the water by Chelsea, ManCity or any of those clubs acting as the footballing flagship of an oil-rich Gulf state. Sorry Bill, even you can’t deny that reality.

    It is a high stakes poker game. I wonder who will blink first, Wenger or Pellegrini?

  425. Muppet;

    That was a dam fine description of how I kinda see things re; the different ‘moedls’ etc.


    We ARE spening money and we ARE upping the wage structure, finally. I would love it if we had a right old splurge on shiney new players!

    But I am a sucker for a bit of retail therapy…. to my never ending shame.

  426. Bernard Manning – now there was someone who was politically incorrect.

  427. Borges;

    No offence man, but going by what wikipedia says is hardly an exhaustive research methodolgy dude! 🙂


    Thanks for posting that. I saw the headlines and thought “Oh f*ck! Thats it, we aint signing him now!”

    I make you right, we have made a bid, they are trying to encourage others to join in. Luckily the chavs have just bought every OTHER attcking midfielder in the world, while Man City don’t need another slight skillful spaniard. Maybe ManU might come in, but I doubt it. Or Real madrid if the spuds try and piss them about too much over Modric?

    I am sure i read somewhere that there’s a clause stating we could get him for much less than the 20m Euros mentioned? Hmmm.

  428. Yogi;

    I probably need to say sorry then I imagine?

    Well, just a general “sorry everyone” should cover me for at least a few days.

  429. I agree with Shotta.

    Whilst a lot of fans were whooping with joy, believing the cat was in the bag, after reading the text of the guardian article on monday, it was clear that there was no indication of any willingness to sell by Malaga. Now we hear that they are playing hard ball and setting a high price, which one may interpret as being realistic given the profile of the player. I expect Arsenal will now pull out of proceedings, unless Malaga are willing to negotiate downwards.

  430. “I am sure i read somewhere that there’s a clause stating we could get him for much less than the 20m Euros mentioned? Hmmm.”

    I read that the buy out clause is €45m. Hopefully Malaga are just posturing for the sake of their image. AW is not usually so open about his targets until they are pretty much in the bag.

  431. If Malage really have to sell him, I still think we have a good chance, as long as none of the sugar daddy clubs try to take a punt. We will probably have to be patient, though.

  432. Passenal; True. I was really surprised by Arsene’s openess. And that lead to me getting rather carried away I must say!

    I would imagine/hope, if the deal cannot be concluded then we will go after another target. Hmmm, I am going to try and second guess who that might be, get myself worked up into a right lather assuming we have signed him and then go hide in my special cardboard box under the stairs for a few hours.

  433. pedantic george

    Dexter ,I accept you open apology.

  434. Agree Dex – don’t think I can ever recall AW talking much about a new signing ahead of the actual signing. My guess is that the guy has said it has to be AFC and we are really only finalising the details. What was the deadline for Malag to clear their debts – end of the month? Sounds like he’s owed salary so they probably don’t have much of a leg to stand on really.

  435. pedantic george


  436. Dex

    About 20 minutes more like.

  437. pedantic george

    Andrew Yogi thinks he will not be coming.

  438. I accept your acceptance George, thank you.


    Yes July 31st is the deadline for wages and other sundry items (bottles of Blue Stratus, pickled eggs, flip flops) to be paid to the players and staff, I think. That might trigger the reduced release clause? The fact we were very close to getting him last summer adds some creedence to the rumours too.

  439. Yogi; Hmmm, I thought I was being a tad optimistic there.

  440. George – yes, I saw YW’s comments and he may be right. It’s AW’s comments which are unusual in this context combined with Arteta’s remarks that cause me to think we may get a nice surprise sooner rather than later; who knows, this could be IG’s good news. It would certainly fit the bill, don’t you think? A real coup.

  441. Perhaps we will sweeten the deal by throwing in a certain lanky Nordic striker?

  442. Dex – the pickled eggs could well trigger more than just the release clause.

    Have you accepted George’s most recent acceptance, btw? Or has there been an exception to the acception?

    I really think we should be told.

    Night all.

  443. Dex.

    You know I am just kidding. Glad to see muppet back. Always enjoy his posts. As I said in a post earlier today. The club seems to be heading in a positive direction. We shall see where it ends on August 31. If we get cazorla then hopefully soon so he gets a pre season with us. The CAM role is critical and he needs all the time with the squad he can get.

  444. We have to wait and see if the pickled eggs trigger any sort of release first Bill. 🙂

  445. My money’s definitely on the eggs.

  446. Bill; BTW, I thought your post was very funny. No need to clarify anything there man. I was serious in my post.

    I love shopping!! 🙂

  447. It’s hard to dare to dream about the current Arsenal squad allied to the talents of Carzola. We’d surely be serious title contenders, if not favourites, in England as in Europe.

    It would be particularly fitting if the spark that ignited a trophy winning streak in our lads came from a player who had endured unpaid wages and who we’d picked up on the cheap cos of broken club finance. And who had specifically stated a preference to join The Arsenal.

    Doomer Meltdown 🙂

  448. pedantic george

    If we signed Messi ,some would still point to RVP and say we are going backward.

  449. I said the current squad George. We hold RVP to his contract. I trust he will fulfill his duties once he sees the odds are with us.

  450. My thoughts exactly FFS Shoot.


  451. Muppet,

    Firstly Imperialism is far from dead. But I am not going to give a lecture on that. If you’re interested I can suggest a lot of books for you to read .Secondly, you don’t think I know how Chelsea and City have influenced the transfer markets? But you tend to forget that there have always been clubs who have paid a lot of money to buy the world class players. Go over the first phase of Galacticos if you want. Barcelona has been doing the same, so was Juventus and other clubs in Italy. United has spent huge amounts of money on some players much before the likes of Chelsea started pumping money into the game. I don’t see much difference between the top European clubs-they’re operating either through huge amounts of loans or through ‘sugar daddies’-that is how it’s been for a long time. The systematic bias exists in criticising one but not the other. While you want to restrict your analysis to Chelsea and City, I think most clubs have been complicit in the commodification of football. As for City, like I said, any club who have serious ambitions of challenging the league would have to pump a lot of money into the game. Which none of the commentators here for the last 2 days have been able to deny. That is football for you. It’s not got anything to do with me, my views, about right or wrong, what I favour, what my own ethical and moral issues are (I think most who know me know where I stand as far as the ‘ideal’ way would have been). I was merely arguing ‘objectively’ and providing an analysis of football not tainted by rose-tinted glasses nor ill informed opinions on the ills of dirty chelsea and City. Most clubs have proceeded in this way over the years, how much did Zidane cost? Lesser Ronaldo? Rooney and Ferdinand (before Chelsea and City) I don’t have to list them all. Far from justifying the likes of Chelsea or City, my point is much more radical than any of you-since I am drawing most European clubs under this banner of what you all call ‘the wrong way of managing the clubs’. Moreover some clubs operate in completely different scenarios such as the Spain ones and have different political economic dynamics that has allowed them to dominate European football for a long time (reflecting the already established club hierarchies in Europe for historical and political reasons). What City has done is the same as every other top European club-however they’re done it at a faster scale in order to win just like Chelsea did. Unlike you, I am not just seeing City or Chelsea as having fucked up things, but these processes were under way far before they even came.

    ‘ A lot of hard work by teams down the drain because of their financial power.’

    As for destroying the works of other clubs-I think we’ve done that as well while balancing our books. You want to argue that as long as we balance the book we can do whatever the hell we want with other clubs. I think it’s time we be honest with ourselves. There are a lot of players we’ve bought from smaller clubs-from different countries-and will continue to do so. Hence at that level we’re not too different. The whole world of football operates this way-what intrigues me is the sort of reactions I’ve received by pointing the blatantly obvious things. I am not saying it’s immoral or unethical-I am just pointing out that this is how football works and this is how our own club works. It’s not ‘my views’-rather how football has actually operated for the past 2 decades. The threshold you want to argue is that as long as you balance the books it’s al right. Well I think you’re mistaken about the general dynamics how clubs can operate under different circumstances. Some can spend on big stadiums others can’t. Most clubs can’t build huge stadiums and charge as much as we do-and that is not my view-but a reflection of reality. Uneven development between clubs have existed and will continue to exist.

    And no, I don’t have any solutions to these problems that I have highlighted. The solution for Arsenal leaking players that some including Yogi, have agreed with me, is that we need to change our wage structures to accommodate our world class players and hold on to them. This idea that they are greedy or whatever-misses the point that this is how the real world operates. We ourselves are not too different in our daily lives-why should we expect someone else to be so-especially when so much money is at stake. We will continue to lose players unless we start competing at the market rate for our ‘world class players’ which frankly we don’t have much. So this doom scenarios created by most about falling into administration is just their way of sticking to their ill informed opinions. I think we can still continue to balance our books if we pay Robin the right amount. The worst case hypothetical scenario would have been to make a loss for a year-with the chance of having him in our team-which I would risk without a second thought. We don’t even have to make a loss-there are enough players in our team that Arsene doesn’t trust-so ship them.

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