Arsenal Win Kos Of Eis, Goals And Alex

The Far East tour got off to a winning start, completing a good day for Arsenal.

Barely had the print dried on the morning’s blogs when the club confirmed that Laurent Koscielny had secured his transfer to Barcelona next summer by signing a new four year deal with Arsenal. Crucially part of the negotiatons included a medical examination which confirmed his Catalan DNA, clearing the way for a move at the end of the coming campaign.

There can be no argument about securing Kos’ future, he was THE outstanding defender in a much-maligned back twelve, a consistent performer in what was a season best forgotten defensively at least. Should he show the same improvement this season, there is no doubt he will be confirmed as another Wenger ‘gem’, if he has not already merited such status.

The only black cloud came with the FA charging Emmanuel Frimpong over an apparent Twitter spat following abuse received from a Tottenham fan. Only Frimpong knows whether or not the comment he made was racially motivated but that seems unlikely; that is no excuse either but getting involved in the first place was questionable judgement. He must have seen the aggravation which fellow professionals rise above, begging the question as to why he reacted.

Player interaction is welcomed in an era when they are more distant from the ‘ordinary man’ than previously but it comes with a caveat; too many keyboard warriors exist and rarely waste the opportunity to entice a reactionary response. The incident exemplifies why O2 are withdrawing their support from football although quite what traditional values blood capsules, tawdry affairs and gouging in rugby uphold is yet to be fully explained.

So back to the tour match. It was a hotch-potch side fielded at kick-off, a mixture of youth and experience. In terms of the performance and result, they are insignificant. The match was the first of pre-season for many, certainly for the players who are reasonably expected to play in the majority of fixtures this season. As such, what should be expected? Not a lot and on a pitch which would be shamed by Hackney Marshes, avoiding injury certainly is a bonus.

The goal conceded contained lessons; yes, it was well-struck and a cracking shot at that. But why did Arsenal back off to allow Azmi Muslim to have a free shot at goal? It was a basic error and one I am sure that it will be something not lost on the coaching staff. However, to place too much emphasis on it is as much of a sin; getting the message home will not be hard given that a goal was conceded as a result of the backing off. That point was not lost on the manager who noted post-match that there was tactical work as well as physical conditioning to be completed,

We are far away physically and tactically we still have some work to do. Technically it was not bad considering because the pitch was not easy and the pace of Malaysia was quite good. 

Overall we still have some tactical work to do and some physical work but don’t forget that some players have only had two or three days training. Some others have only had a maximum of seven or eight so physically we are far from what we can produce.

If it is a mistake which is repeated in future tour matches, then yes, there are grounds for concern.

Both sides had ample opportunities to score more and perhaps should have. Aneke and Afobe were lively whilst Thomas Eisfeld’s run in creating the equaliser was another promising step. The experience of watching the ball constantly fly over his head at Euro2012 does not appear to have done Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain any harm. The left side was an interesting experiment with Gibbs and Santos; I know Wenger has used the Brazilian in a more advanced role before and it does seem to give a more sturdy look to that area of the pitch. If Santos had a right leg that was used for anything other than stopping him running round in an ever-decreasing circle, he might have grabbed a couple. Gervinho and Diaby put in useful shifts which given the former’s apparent loss of confidence post-ACN is good whilst anything from the latter that has not resulted in injury has to be considered a bonus.

As the squad moved to Bejing ahead of Friday’s meeting with Manchester City, Arsène has set a deadline of August 18th for any deal to be concluded with Robin van Pursestring‘s sale; whether the Powers That Be will agree to that is an altogether different matter. Santi Cazorla will be the subject of a bid of £16m plus the entire back catalogue of Earth Wind and Fire, all duly signed, as an inducement. The Spaniard apparently likes the idea of having his wages paid on time.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on July 24, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 441 Comments.

  1. Wrong date!

  2. Really, Yogi.

    You old stirrer.

  3. dot com fallen asleep at the beijing press conference. Live tweeting not live for the last 15 minutes!

  4. arsenalandrew

    Good post, very amusing!

    Typo I think – complete for concern after the quote?

  5. Uhh! woke up to give us some Ivan PR-speak

  6. arsenalandrew

    An AFC/AW press conference going on as we write – I wonder if we will get (m)any gems …

  7. It’s the 25th today Yogi.

  8. Maybe they’re having a game of ping pong.

  9. BREAKING NON-NEWS: Wenger: “We are not at the end of it [transfers]. We will still bring players in.”

  10. Ling2x aka Monica

    Ola Yogi! Good afternoon from +8 GMT!

    I watched the match thru livestream last night, and I must say I fell asleep in the second half! LOL! Anyway, I was able to wake up in the dying minutes to witness the goals by Thomas Eisfeld and Chuks Aneke!

    Preseason is the time the squad evaluates itself. This is where the club will determine who is going to stay, go or loan out. I now understand why Arsene brought the most of the kids along to determine who has what it takes to crack a first team. With only 2 preseason matches (if you count the Bear Trophy match), it’s still hard to tell which youngster shined the brightest yet. As for the most of the first XI, those who were on this gig where those who did not see action for their respective countries over the summer. The preseason will determine if they are match fit for the coming season.

    The real test for these lads will be the Beijing leg of the tour vs. Manchester City, who will be deploying most of their first teamers.

    I’ll be in Hong Kong this weekend to watch the Hong Kong leg of their preseason tour vs. Kitchee FC. I don’t mind sharing you guys the experience once I get back from HK.

    PS: I made a prayer circle on Diaby. Thank God he survived the KL leg unscathed for 45 minutes which is good news! 1 down, 2 to go. Up the Arsenal!

  11. YW,

    You like the rest have led the charge against the club captain all this while, while people who have continued to espouse the notion that ‘we don’t know the details of the transfer proceedings’ ironically have turned this whole matter into one of money. If all of you are going to defend this notion with the idea that we don’t know what’s been offered and all, I don’t see the point how the captain’s character has been defamed all this while. You have been equally complicit in this, with your ‘clever’ name bashing, that resonates childish and immature proceedings from other blogs. You’ve lost your touch in your unconditional support for profits instead of players who actually play the game. I find it stupid that it’s been difficult to drill this point into the heads of people here, that having a wage hierarchy is nromal and Robin being one of the best players should on principle command salaries that the market determines for him. Yes it’s sad and blah blah, but that’s how things are. We operate in a real world not your ideal world of 1975 (which is where most of the older guys are still wanting to return).

    Bob,

    What do you mean by club? As of now, Arsenal is acting less like a club and more like a private company with profits being the primary logic that is dictating how the club proceeds. I think instead of the ‘club’ you should see that you should draw a fine balance in supporting the club and the players. Robin being the captain deserves our support, especially when you say we ‘don’t really know what exactly has been the clash with the management’. I think criticism of Robin is unwarranted because we don’t know what’s been the major fallout with the club.

    ‘ACLF still seems a relative bastion of sense in an insane football world.’

    I have never doubted that, but recently the comments have been absolutely rubbish where these armchair managers like Pedantic George who have yet to kick a football in their lives, have been name calling and defaming the captain of our club without any evidence that he deserves this criticism. Look at the one dimensional posts that have come up. Zp, can’t stop romanticising about players who have yet to do ‘anything’ for our team, while players who have led us to victories have been shown down. I think most of you have not really thought this out clearly, and perhaps are also hurt that Robin hasn’t signed for the club-and hence reacting in this way. But I think supporting him might actually allow us to keep him here instead of this childish ‘Robinpurse-y’ kind of immature name calling. It’s a really bad message we’ve sent to the players in our squad that don’t expect to be paid like other top players in Europe once you develop into a world class player.

    And stop with this nonsense about ‘Arsenal’ developing players hence they should fuck them over once it comes to wages. Arsenal gives them the opportunity (while it benefits the club immensely as well), while most effort goes through the player himself in countless hours on the pitch and in training. Common sense. (not all these comments are directed at Bob-who still shows hints of common sense on this issue).

  12. Caxter

    It’s because the post was written last night.

  13. anyone else impressed by miquel at left back yesterday?? quick strong and good going forward

  14. AA @ 8.28 I think the answer is a resounding ‘NO’.

  15. Ateeb

    >You’ve lost your touch in your unconditional support for profits instead of players who actually play the game

    Eh? I never supported profits. Point me in the direction where I did. I support self-sustenance which is entirely different from profits. And this is what RvPs situation is about. You need to re-read the blog; you’ll see criticism of the wage structure, you’ll see agreement that top players should get more money but most of all you’ll see that I unreservedly support the philosophy that we spend what we can afford. Not a centime more, not a penny less.

    You’ve sorely underestimated and utterly misunderstood why Robin van Persie is being subjected to derision. So let me explain. It isn’t that he is leaving for money, it is that his advisors – and ultimately he – have made it a point of principle, where they don’t agree with the direction that the club is following.

    Now he might be able to get more money elsewhere but to try to make it a point of principle when the direction he doesn’t like is that his wages won’t be high enough here, is absolutely crass and more to point, taking supporters for idiots. He would have been better advised to admit its his last contract, last big payday but saw the criticism of Nasri and Cole, decided he wanted to go out popular and got it horribly wrong.

    I would have preferred him to say, this is my last year, going to give it my all and see my contract out. Hopefully I’ll win a trophy but even if I do, I’m gone. If the club then decide to sell him, that is their choice. So be it, thanks for all the fish, wish you well Robin.

    But it hasn’t played out like that. As I have repeatedly stated, if he stays and he wears an Arsenal shirt, he has to be supported; that is part of getting behind the team. As Frank quite rightly pointed out yesterday, if he scores for Arsenal, we’ll celebrate. It will feel hollow but it is Arsenal benefitting and anyone who says they won’t is either (a) a fool, (b) deluding themselves, and / or (c) not supporting the team.

    But he will not be Arsenal captain; his position as such is untenable. Utterly untenable.

    As for romanticising the game, you don’t know what you are talking about. Your comments are derisory towards those of us who find the obsession with money tawdry and unseemly. Money has made football forget its core raison d’etre: football. If you feel so strongly about corporate ID, go and stand outside Tesco and offer them your support. Take a scarf, you can make up your chants if you like: “Two hundred Granny Smiths, there’s only two hundred Granny Smiths” or howabout “You’ll win fuck all with Lamb Chops cut like that, You’ll win fuck all with Lamb Chops cut like that”.

    If you think he is going to stay willingly, you’re deceiving yourself. He is agitating for a move and if he stays, it is because other clubs don’t value him highly enough.

  16. if he stays, it is because other clubs don’t value him highly enough.
    I think this is a likely prospect.

  17. well said YW. impressed by the lucidity of your reply. i was trying to think of a reply to ateeb and all i had were expletives.

  18. i think van persie will end up staying, because shitty don’t seem to want him enough after all. and i am not sure if wenger will sell to fergie. not even sure if they have any money. maybe juventus..

  19. I think Mancini wants him, but I don’t see them actually getting rid of their deadwood. And if he stays, as Yogi rightly says, we will support him. We will do it through gritted teeth but if he wears the red and white, it’s not like we really have a choice. And if he contributes to us winning a trophy, that will be fantastic. But the “legend train” is unfortunately gone for him and that’s a damn shame.

    Once again, to go back to what Yogi has said, he could’ve admitted it’s his last contract and stayed, maybe gone to Juventus and most of us would still remember him fondly, even though we would be disappointed. But the way he chose to act .. welll … it’s his fault, isn’t it?

  20. Evil

    i would want him to stay, provided he doesn’t disrupt the team. whether he plays well or not is not my concern but obviously i would be supporting him. my primary concern is that if he stays, he doesnt disrupt the team.

    but you are right. the legend train is long gone. had his name written on it, but he threw it away, smashed it away.

  21. Best thing for all parties now is for RVP to go to Juve for 20Mil. Juve need a ‘name’ and a striker. That way he wont get abuse for going to City and it will halt the tarnishing of his time at The Arsenal

  22. This is probably what bugs me the most about this situation. Same thing with Cesc last year. He was destined to become a legend, even if he hadn’t won a trophy with us, if he had only found the resolve to stay with us until his last year or actually see his contract out. But he decided against it. Could’ve been remembered forever as one of the greatest midfielders in the history of AFC, but he decided against it. And this saddens me. Don’t they care about their legacy? Obviously what Cesc did last season has been massively insulting to all Arsenal fans. We knew he would leave, but I at least didn’t expect him that he would take the steps he did to force it through. But then for Robin to come and actually make Cesc look half-decent in comparison..

  23. Evil

    why want legacy when you can have money?

  24. Oh dear, looks like ateeb is doing the hurt lover routine. lashing out, blindly, spouting baseless, ill informed nonsense yet again.

    Best to ignore his pointless banal posts me thinks.

    Le grove is thattaway ateeb, off you pop.

  25. le boss – “We are not at the end of it [transfers],” he told Arsenal media at a press conference in Beijing. “We will still bring players in.”

  26. Deise;

    The best thing would be for him to sign anew deal man! It can still happen. Then again, maybe I am being naive. Dunno. but him staying makes lots of sense to me. Even if it was for one more year.

  27. A fine post YW. I agree with Ateeb about the name calling , but I also understand that a blog post needs humour otherwise we’d end up reading some pretty dry fare.
    However I think Zimpaul the other day and Yogi today utterly trashed the rest of the comments, and resorting to your own childish jibes (1975 anyone?) rather undermines your argument don’t you think?
    Anyhoo fantastic to see Diaby looking strong and moving well and a tantalising glimpse of Thomas Eisfeld whetted my appetite. What little we can glean from a glorified training session suggests that AOC could be in the mood to stake a claim in the starting 11.

  28. The statement, like alot of the posts on here regarding it, was ill informed, spiteful and unnecessary.

  29. Cesc can become a Barca legend. Van Pursey won’t be anyone’s legend. Best he can hope for is a couple of good years somewhere else.

  30. Syeww;

    Do you mind? I was quite proud Yogi chose to call our wantaway captain ‘van Purestring’.

    That was one of my finer moments. Something to tell the grand kids I reckon. 🙂

  31. Sorry, Steww*

  32. @red kangaroo
    Spot on. Cesc can and probably will become a Barca legend … though he could’ve become a legend for both clubs if he wanted to. On the other hand Robin with probably 2 or 3 good years left, that’s just not enough, especially because if he moves to City he will be “one of many” and not the man.

  33. Perhaps it is only me but having read at least one million words on RvP and his departure, possibly two or three million, with every conceivable angle examined to the nth degree I am bored.

    He will go, perhaps he might stay

    Good for him, good for us. Does it matter ?

    I don’t care.

    So much better to look forward to Friday’s game in Beijing

  34. annicol

    You are right. Its a pointless debate, all angles have been discussed to death and its so boring.

    Hope he stays, but there’s actual football to be chatting about now!

  35. @Evil, and if he goes to United he will have the considerably younger Rooney to contend with.

    That leaves Juve. ???

  36. @Dexter. Speaking of actual football. Has anyone seen a Shitty squad list for Friday. Are we putting our kids up against their 1st team?

  37. red kanga;

    Doubt it, but it does make sense to have left RvP at home tho IMO!

  38. mattgoonerknight

    Ateeb

    I understand some of what you are saying.

    I find the RVP bashing difficult to take, especially as it is still very much clear what exactly has been discussed, what will be discussed and what the eventual outcome will be.

    If an almost unbelievable turnaround occurs, and he signs an extension, would people take back what they have said? Would all be forgiven? Van the Man our Captain?

    O.K. so that is about as likely as Henry or Lehman returning for loan spell ; ), but I just can’t help feeling that there is more to this than just RVP be a greedy cunt, willing and waiting to go to the highest bidder (with acceptable personal terms, of course).

    I’m perhaps more disappointed with the notion that he’d happily go to either half of Manchester. With Henry, Cesc etc, part of my comfort lay with the fact that they’d never sign for a direct rival.

    Perhaps where this has gone wrong for Robin is that he thought that Barcelona and Real would come knocking. That us, the fans, would begrudgingly accept his departure as we have in the past with our previous captains(to varying degrees): gutted but not gone to a rival and difficult to deny the lure La Liga duopoly. The fact that they haven’t come in for him has left him somewhat crestfallen. Citeh, Manure or the old’dear are not his final dream contract: I’m sure he is not Nasri.

    Personally I think we should point blank to refuse to sell to Manure or Citeh, regardless of what they offer. Juventus or stay: simple.

    Or maybe A.C Milan could come in with a massive offer and a fat contract, make the whole thing easy for everything for all concerned.

  39. Was that really Ateeb? I jest. Kind of. Wouldn’t be the first or the last time, and one must keep ones D-Fence in shape, what what?
    Not that I have much of an opinion about things of which I know little. Is that fence sitting? Heh. Maybe. But:

    I always understood the ‘Statement’ released upon Robin’s behalf as the nooclear option. “AFC don’t want to let us go. Crap. What can we do to try and help any prospective bidders be able to get a feasible price below £50million smackerooney’s? I have a cunning plan.” Cynical. Yes. Exploiting the emotions of fans to get what they want. As Mos Def would say, Most definitely! Read back through some comments! (here I am happy to jump off the fence and to agree with Ateeb). Perhaps it is me who is too cynical, and that statement was not a brazen attempt to end the Robin’s relationship with the fanbase in order to help facilitate a move at a lower price. I hope not. I hope that Arsene wins this little battle.

  40. I went to their website to try to find out. Have seen pics of Tevez, Aguero and Kompany on the plane. Don’t recognize most of them though. We have Chamakh and Afobe strikers!

  41. MGK
    But if he really wants to go to the Broke Barca perhaps they asked him to lower his price first. Like they did with Cesc F Word. Wouldn’t be the first time!

  42. mattgoonerknight

    corr: still very UNclear

  43. Ateeb

    Ah, yes – 1975. How we geriatrics pine for the good old days when we were 16th in the First Division.

    May I gently repost a contribution from the day after Robin’s agent’s rather pathetic apologia:

    Poor Robin.

    His cover story completely blown by our having already bought Lukas and Olivier.

    But why does he need a cover story? Why shouldn’t he try to find a sugardaddy to pay him off through the twilight of his declining football years?

    As to whether we keep him, it depends on the offers we get. He has made a financial calculation, as is his contractual right. So should we, as is ours. Fix a price. If someone meets it, sell him: if not, don’t.

    Despite an avalanche of words, don’t think much has changed since.

  44. It would be utterly naïve in modern football to think that van Persie was ‘hoping’ that teams like Real or Barca would have come knocking, agents talk irrespective of official permission having been given or not. They talk to us despite the high horse we may like to sit on, our player’s agents talk to other clubs.

    I am disappointed in how the van Persie affair has played out, specifically the announcement he saw fit to make apparently without the knowledge of the club who when all is said and done are still his current employers, still depositing the guts of €100k into his current account each week. We all have a level of personal expectancy and responsibility as employees, footballers are no different.

    Now, what I don’t agree with is the automatic assumption made by many that his decision is one of greed and solely borne from the desire to earn more than we are offering. Of course it will be a factor, why shouldn’t he want to earn as much as he can. I do. Names such as Robin van Pursestrings are of course silly but they’re just a piss take, a bit of fun.

    If Podolski or Giround had more suitable surnames you could just as readily have played with their names. You can be sure they would not have joined us had we not been offering them an increase of their ex-employer.

    The thing with Robin is however there is the very distinct possibility that he also wants to win prizes during his career which has 4-5 years left and that he believes that is better served elsewhere. The truth is that he probably does have a better chance at one of the 3 clubs being mooted to buy him. Quite simply he does not think we are good enough, again he is entitled to think as he pleases.

    He’s not like us, he is a professional footballer. Most of us would pay to play for Arsenal, not want to be paid 90k a week for the privilege. He’s not even English, god forbid he might actually also think life in Italy may be pleasant for a few years.

    I couldn’t give a monkeys where he goes now, Manchester or Turin. Nor will I dislike him in any way for leaving. I just want it resolved asap in the manner best suited to Arsenal.

  45. mattgoonerknight

    fins

    Big perhaps.

    I don’t think they want / need him.

    Even though most of us would happily play football for our current salaries + a healthy pension, there does seem to be a limit to what the modern footballer will take regarding a pay cut to play for anyone. So in that regard, he is a greedy cunt, along with ALL footballers.

    I incessantly hope we refuse to sell to Manchester; it’s becoming a joke. Imagine a team consisting of Adebayor, Van Persie, Kolo, Clichy, and Nasri (have I missed anyone?) lining up against us with Paddy cheer leading from the sidelines.

    Admittedly, that team would not happen, but you get the point.

    l also agree that this RVP / Citeh talk is getting very boring, so back to the football I say!

    Who’s our next game against? ; )

  46. red kangaroo on July 25, 2012 at
    10:19 am

    “@Dexter. Speaking of actual football. Has anyone seen a Shitty squad list for Friday. Are we putting our kids up against their 1st team?”

    Does it really matter who they have? Afterall, we’re always going to get the better of them. Yes, even with kids.

  47. YW,

    ‘You need to re-read the blog; you’ll see criticism of the wage structure, you’ll see agreement that top players should get more money’

    At least we agree on this point.

    ‘You need to re-read the blog; you’ll see criticism of the wage structure, you’ll see agreement that top players should get more money but most of all you’ll see that I unreservedly support the philosophy that we spend what we can afford. ‘

    What the fuck is self sustenance? Self sustenance for what? To compete for the fourth position? It’s great to take massive loans to build a stadium, but not to strengthen the team? What kind of stupid arguments are these? Spend as much money as we have? Why not go with what Dein was saying few years back about not going for the stadium, we didn’t have any money then. You clearly are not seeing your own contradictory positions at all. If anything, the whole model has not let us compete financially which clearly shows on the pitch when you get thrashed 8-2 on the pitch. We finished 20 points less than the top teams. If that is self sustaining model that it should go to the bin. Taking loans for the stadium (which had a lot to do with real estate investments as well), shows where the club stood a few years back.

    ‘ It isn’t that he is leaving for money, it is that his advisors – and ultimately he – have made it a point of principle, where they don’t agree with the direction that the club is following.’

    Sure. And neither should we, if it means that we can’t pay the salaries for our best players. At least he didn’t come out and say it in the open that the club is ‘cheap’ when it comes to paying the players. I doubt we should be agreeing with the clubs direction if it means we will continue to sell our best players under the rubric of ‘self sustenance’. I am surprised that someone like you can’t read that profits are nicely wrapped under this idea of ‘self sustenance’. You’re forgetting the millions that have already been made by the last owners.

    ‘Now he might be able to get more money elsewhere but to try to make it a point of principle when the direction he doesn’t like is that his wages won’t be high enough here, is absolutely crass and more to point, taking supporters for idiots. ‘

    This is all conjecture on your part to feed your anti-Robin bias. How do you know what the issues are? And even if he’s asking for higher wages, how did you end up siding with Stan? You might be supporting a player hierarchy, but there are clear systematic biases in your positions and the sort of posts you have allowed. Why not be honest yourself? And I think he understands how ‘Idiot’ the supporters are. If he had come out and said that they’re not paying me, you all would have lambasted him as you’re doing at the moment. Kindly direct me one post when you’ve supported the captain and not Stan. Don’t play this ‘I’ve been up for wage hierarchy’ games with me. You’ve held to many different positions on this matter, a lot of which are contradictory.

    ‘As Frank quite rightly pointed out yesterday, if he scores for Arsenal, we’ll celebrate. It will feel hollow but it is Arsenal benefitting and anyone who says they won’t is either (a) a fool, (b) deluding themselves, and / or (c) not supporting the team.’

    Really dude. This is quite funny. It would feel hollow because he demanded the wages he deserves? So what? Isn’t your own position also about keeping Stan’s profits (self sustenance) well in tact. You want him to take a pay cut to play for us, then you say you’re up for wage hierarchy. You see. The only person deluded I see is you and the rest of you. Full of contradictions.

    ‘ut. Your comments are derisory towards those of us who find the obsession with money tawdry and unseemly. Money has made football forget its core raison d’etre: football’

    No my comments are not derisory towards them. I am as much saddened by the direction world football has taken over the last couple of decades under the commodification of football and the world in general. But that’s how things are. It is nostalgia and romanticising a past that can’t be recreated under the current scenario. The only thing we can do, is be prudent and try our best to keep our best players. Even if it means, making a loss once a while. At the moment, we’re clearly chosen profits over players. I find it hilarious as well that you lot have these self imposed thresholds of the ‘right wage’. 130,000 is fine, but 180,000 gets too much? I don’t think there have been enough evidence that can be used to deride Robin. If he’s asking for more wages, we should support him. I don’t see a reason why, especially when you agreed we need a wage hierarchy. Like I’ve made it clear before, keeping him also increases our chances of winning something. I think we should show some flexibility on these matters. I am starting to feel hollow that we have been selling our players for profits rather than keeping them. If it means cutting our losses on our second string team so be it. We do have a lot of players that are on loan for a long time, paying them a lot more than they would command elsewhere.

    ‘If you think he is going to stay willingly, you’re deceiving yourself. He is agitating for a move and if he stays, it is because other clubs don’t value him highly enough.’

    Stop misguiding the people on your blog. If that is how you think he is thinking, than that shows a lot about how the players think of the club. There must be something wrong with the club than given the amount of players we’ve leaked over the years. And it’s not always been about money, and even if it’s been over wages at times, why hasn’t the club changed their strategy about keeping their best players?

    Lastly, what’s wrong with the way City has gone about with their business? I think if any other club wants to challenge for trophies seriously, they would take this path, because that is the only way they can attract players. The players benefit too because of high wages as well as having a real go for trophies (unlike the laughable-we’re 10 points behind the leaders by January because Stan the Man is self sustaining). And because half of you have some delusional concepts of self sustenance and how the ‘ideal world’ of football should operate. And once you figure that out, kindly let me know how Arsenal spending billions on the stadium is considered ethical and right-given that stadiums and club image is another way of making profits-as much as other teams have done so directly through building a team of the so called ‘mercenaries’. I think the mercenaries are quite radical as far as they’re honest about what football is really about these days ‘profits’.

  48. mattgoonerknight

    merlot

    Agree with that, although it’s still a no to Manchester.

    Anyway, back to the football.

  49. I had a dream last night – that’s all.

  50. Good win but it was close. This give us a chance to look at the younger guys. We’ll see.

  51. Rosicky is to under an operation which will put him out of action for 2-3 months. Santi Cazorla, come on down!!

  52. @Ateeb
    It’s getting ridiculous with you. Are you seriously comparing taking a loan to build a stadium with taking a loan to buy players? You do know that all that money we used to build the stadium is actually still there — it’s in N5 and called the Emirates Stadium. And it will be there for the next 50 – 100 years. On the other hand money loaned to sign a player is gone. You can hope to recoup some of that by selling the player later, but that’s speculative.

  53. Hrmf, not happy at all about the Rosicky news. He was really instrumental in the tail end to our season and I was actually hoping that he could take the momentum and improve even further on that this season. But well, whatever, Cazorla is probably coming so it’s something we can cope with. And if he is fit for the second part of the season he will still be able to make an impact, I am sure of it.

  54. Utter bollocks again, is that j*bber? Repetitive nonsense.

  55. I wonder will see Gazidas and Wenger meet with the Man City guys at the end of the week about RVP – wel probobly see this sorted by early next week

  56. Evil;

    If you remove the poster’s name, that could well have been penned by j*bber or any other bile filled doomer.

  57. Deise

    Wenger won’t be meeting with anybody from City or any other buying club. I would assume it to be Gazidis and a team of legal people.

    He wouldn’t meet people from selling clubs either for that matter.

  58. I know its talksport but some

  59. Note to myself:
    Shut the Fuck Up Shotta. This could go on forever.

  60. Hello everybody – I hope you re all well.

    I see Ateeb has completely fucking lost it.

    That 10.48 post was the sound of a human brain imploding.

  61. @Dexter
    And that’s making me sad, because I can remember a much different Ateeb from seasons past. But I guess sometimes people change.

  62. Deise;

    Don’t even go there!

    I know the full facts have never been revealed and unlike others, i don’t pretend to know the inner workings of the club. But my take on what happened last summer with N*asri, was that AW wanted to keep him, but the board forced the sell upon him. Which makes RvP’s current plight all the more interesting to see if the same scenario plays out.

    Then again, according to other bloggers “in the know”, Wenger was unable to sign Cazorla last summer due to the long drawn out nature of N*sri’s transfer.

  63. mattgoonerknight

    Ateeb

    But then surely only the richest club wins?

    Wenger should just leave us now and replace Mancini as he only get’s a paltry 6million a year and Jack might as well leave us now because when his current deal is up Citeh will offer him half a Mill a week? I mean, who could blame them, ai?

    There’s a limit Ateeb, no?

    I’m not an expert on the financial side of things, but last time I checked Arsenal was a plc. That means WE own the stadium, not SK, who is just a majority shareholder, hence it is self-sustaining. We pay our own way, don’t owe anyone any money and still compete at the the right end of the table – not bad.

    I’ve heard of a couple of teams who used to be pretty handy who’ve tried a different financial model: one’s called Rangers of something, then there’s Leeds town, or city, I don’t know. Oh, and this team near Southampton once won the F.A cup with ‘arry, they’re not doing too great either unfortunately.

    You or I could offer the shareholders a price for a stake and pump some more money into the club; personally, I’m a bit skint at the moment.

  64. one person here has a really sad life. no prizes for guessing who.

  65. Deise;

    You were saying…?

  66. Steve – Wenger does sometimes get involved, but its more so with the player , so i guess you are right there, but i hope Ivan accepts a 20 mil offer from Juve before they meet so he can tell man city to go fuck themselves 😉 😉

  67. Hello jonny! How ya doing dude?

  68. Rosicky out for 6-8 weeks after an op. Given his history he could be out for 12. Fingers crossed. Now I am convinced we need some cover in attacking midfield.

  69. Shotta – bad news eh! Now just watch Diaby get broken again! If it wasnt for bad luck those ;ads would have no luck at all….

  70. Oh right Deise, you posted. Hmmm, there seem a lot of contradictory reports regarding Jack. he and others seem to think he could be bcak end of August.

    I would NOT believe Charlie Wyett if he told me what day it was.

  71. Ateeb

    Dein was being disingenuous. He wanted us to go Wembley, he wanted the club to BUY Wembley and lease it to the FA once it was remodernised. Stop romanticising about his involvement. And explain how your hero’s vision is ethical since you believe that building The Emirates isn’t. Do you know how he was going to fund it? Bank loans. That’ll be the same as now.

    Have you heard of Leeds United? Portsmouth? These are clubs that borrowed to buy and went tits up. Sheffield Wednesday as well. Chasing the dream, ending up being in the lower reaches of the Football League, out of business in one case. Don’t lecture me on the advisability of borrowing to fund players, there is no logic in it at all. What your ilk conveniently forget is that buying players is not a once in a while exercise; it is a continual process of replenishment, restocking. It costs money, you continually borrow, you end up with money leaking from a business in finance charges until you have to sell to pay the loans off. Where’s the difference in that?

    You really do not read what is being written here, do you? Or if you do, you forget quickly, allowing your own biases to remember bits, invent others and forget the rest: I am actually in favour of a rights issue, not one underwritten by Usmanov though. And if you did read the blog properly, you’d see I don’t have much time for Kroenke either.

    >And because half of you have some delusional concepts of self sustenance and how the ‘ideal world’ of football should operate. And once you figure that out, kindly let me know how Arsenal spending billions on the stadium is considered ethical and right-given that stadiums and club image is another way of making profits-as much as other teams have done so directly through building a team of the so called ‘mercenaries’. I think the mercenaries are quite radical as far as they’re honest about what football is really about these days ‘profits’.

    Your answers identify you very much as a Premier League football fan. No long-term view on anything, it’s all about now. With you there is no tomorrow. Your denial of derisory comments is as laughable as calling the modern footballer a radical. There’s nothing radical at all about their stance over salaries. Nothing whatsoever.

    Even the least ethical bodies in the world, Uefa and Fifa consider building a stadium ethical. And it cost millions not billions. A stadium owned by the club outright in twenty years is not ethical. You don’t even see the folly of your own argument.

    >Stop misguiding the people on your blog.

    You don’t get what the purpose a blog is, do you? It’s to offer my opinion on issues. I make no pretence about being in the know or anything else, I’m not a journalist posting news. I’m telling people what I think. End of.

  72. Shotta/Deise;

    Those strong rumours linking us with Cazorla make even more sense now. Even Wenger said we were in the process of trying to sign him.

  73. Yogi;

    You have the patience of a radical. 🙂

    Now, can you please stop misguiding me, I am very impressionable.

  74. mattgoonerknight

    Deise

    Crickey, when it saw “fears for his future” my hear went in my mouth!

    Hyperbole, journalese at its worse.

    He’s injured, badly, and not going to back in a jiffy.

    I prefer this slightly more positive take on proceedings:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/jack-wilshere-says-he-could-be-back-in-action-for-arsenal-next-month-7966213.html

    🙂

  75. Arsene said the other day about having your own transfer deadline day in your head, then suggested it would be before the Sunderland game(in arsene speak),obviously a lesson learned from last summer,if the price is too high for juve and city can’t get shot of ade then rvp and slugworth(although robin is definetly no Charlie bucket) have put themselves in a corner with that spiteful statement,would robin say to slugworth “you never said it would turn out like this?” and flush him down the toilet, is this situation redeemable?, am I going off on one?,could robin be Charlie bucket again?,have I been listening to too much somer valley fm?,can you win things with lamb chops cut like that?-no,city will cough up £20m and good riddance to him,he can rot in hell as far as I’m concerned.

  76. What ever the real prognosis for the future of english football, we need to have a lot more patience than many have shown with Ramsey.

  77. Seen better days tbh Dex but just getting on with it as best I can.

    What did I miss in my absence – any good scraps?

    I’m just glad to be back to witness Ateeb’s marbles spill across the floor. 🙂

  78. Wilshere’s people are off their head if they think having not played for 12+ months he will be back in what is now 4-5 weeks.

    Incredibly naive.

  79. “I’m telling people what I think. End of.”

    WAAAIITAMINUTE – you mean this isn’t all gospel?!!! I want my fucking money back! 😉

  80. You having a problem, Ateeb?

    How are you finding London. Still here?

    This just doesn’t sound like the Ateeb of a couple of years ago.

  81. Oh no wait! That’s right you do it all for free and I have the option to come here. Phew!

    Oh and BTW – you can misguide me all you like.

  82. It is patently ludicrous to hold up the likes of the chavs and oil city as some sort of guiding light which all clubs ought to follow, or see their best players leave and remain trophyless.

    It isd ultimately a recipe for disaster.

    Hopefully our very own revolutionary Che vanP will see the folly of this approach for what it is’ hollow and vile. Especially given how the squad is developing into the strongest probably since 2004.

  83. Sorry to hear that Jonny mate. Hope it’s purely a temporary state.

    CBob; Sorry my friend. I have been rather curt with your friend, not cut him much slack. I know you and he have been good friends on here for some time.

  84. Lots of friends there, sorry!

  85. I think he’s fallen in with a bad crowd, Cbob, a bad crowd.

  86. Steve;

    Hopefully they simply mean he will be able to train with the rest of the squad in a month or so’s time.

  87. Another attacking midfielder really looks the order of the day. Out of the 3 candidates for that position, 2 are injured and have questionable injury records. And the other is Diaby. It is not unrealistic to think that we could be without all three for over half the season.

    I know Ramsey can play there, but he didn’t really convince. As it goes I think he is far better in the think of the midfield. Our other option for the advanced midfield spot is AOC. The only thing stopping me getting right behind him for that position is simply his inexperience.

  88. Ateeb – Maybe C-bob can hop in his helicopter and go back in time and fix whatever ‘issue’ you are having? I wonder if C-bob has a name for his helicopter? If not I am sure Dexter can come up with one, or Jonny.

  89. Henry not only wants to come back as a coach when his MLS contract runs out, he also fancies another loan in january too.

    Pity he isnt here right now, giving another Arsenal captain some friendly advice.

  90. Goonerandy;

    You are tright to say AOC lacks experience and I really ought to agree about him not being ‘reeady’ to play in the middle behind RvP (yeah, I said it!). BUT, I really thiink he IS up to the job. It’s just a hunch (a small one, but I am having treatment for it), a guess, wishful thinking whatever, but i think he can do the job.

    Adding cazorla, or another attack minded creative midfielder would mean we have serious cover in all areas of the pitch, IMO.

    It would represent an awesome transfer window.

  91. Dex – Yeah, same here to be honest. I think he is going to be a superb player, but I suppose I can understand Arsene holding him back a bit.

  92. Obviosuly apart from the small matter of the club captain and best striker on the planet wanting to leave.

  93. Did someone mention Henry? Check this out from the other week:-

  94. GA;

    I have done a bit of research on the cazorla fella and he can play all across the midfield, so signing him would give us a quality player AND strength in depth. He and AOC could rotate in the CAM position.

    But I am getting ahead of myself here!

  95. In kuala Lumpur airport waiting for my flight back to vietnam. Unfortunately didn’t get a chance to see the gunners pick n mix last night but what’s amazing is the number of people wearing arsenal strips waiting to board flights out of KL. people seem to come from all over south east Asia to see arsenal only for a couple hours. The draw of seeing the gunners is a lot stronger then we all think. Philippines, Vietnam Thailand Singapore seems. It would be great to see players applying the same levels of passion and loyalty for one club…and one club only.

  96. Haven’t seen any sign of Na$ri in the Shitty team for Friday. That’s a shame.

    Hopefully the pitch will be better. Malaysia was middle of the wet season.

  97. Irishl

    Great goal, but just what I’d expect from the great man.

    And I will leave it to Jonny to come up with a name for C’Bob’s chopper

  98. i like what i saw of aneke, ryo yesterday. i wonder if we are going to loan our youth players, maybe we should loan them to a team that plays football like swansea? who’s their new manager anyway?

  99. Dexter @ 11:38pm – “Especially given how the squad is developing into the strongest probably since 2004.” I am impressed by the signing of Poldi and Giroud, without breaking the bank. Now, if we spent all our dough on “you know who”, what chance would we have of signing Carzola or any other quality AM? What did Ivan say about keeping our powder dry?

    YW said it better than I could. Financing player transfers and their infinitely increasing wage demands with bank loans is simply the road to insolvency. Those interest payments and charges have a way of spiraling. Just ask the majority of football clubs including the quite “innovative” Man Utd. But then last year’s Ateeb was polemical about the evils of debt-financing and the role of the banks in destabilizing the world economy.

    Sorry but I cannot countenance those whose love for RVP has caused them to lose touch with reality and the principles they once espoused.

    STFU.

  100. It’s Michael Laudrup Korihikage.

    I also though Yennaris looks very assured and has some serious skills too.

  101. mattgoonerknight

    Good work Dex

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/thierry-henry-reveals-hopes-of-returning-to-arsenal-for-third-spell-7976147.html

    Wouldn’t Henry as manager be awesome. I know some our holding out for Dennis, which would be awesome, too, but Henry is all but putting his name in the hat with statements like this.

    A couple of years of AW’s tutelage and there you have, the dream replacement.

    Dennis and Henry together, in any order, would be ridiculous!!!!

  102. Shotta;

    IF we signed a player of the calibre of Cazolrla, along with the signings already made, plus the re-signed (Vermealen, Koscielny and hopefully Theo) players, the wouldnt that represent the kind of ambition RvP said the club lacked? Wouldn’t it render his comments misplaced and silly?

    Then perhaps, he may well see what is happening at the club and what we potentially can achieve and stick around.

  103. MGK;

    That is the thing Gooner fantasies are made of man! Chuck in Guardoila too and that’s a football wet dream! 🙂

  104. Dexter

    yennaris played a bit last season for the first team, and you could tell he could play. he has got a real engine as well. miquel is also solid at leftback. it’s a pity there’s no competitive reserve league for these young players to gain experience while with us.

  105. mgk @ 10:47 am

    Totally agree. But I still think they’d want him!

  106. mattgoonerknight

    Dex

    Guardiola!? An outsider!!

    Absolutely not 🙂

  107. That is exactly what I was thinking Dexter. Arsenal would definitely seem like the club with the greatest ambition for the coming season. Rvp might just resign.

  108. Maybe Arsenal can buy of a lower league spanish team with all the ‘profits’ and send our players there for experience..
    😉

  109. Korihikage;

    I think we will see Yennaris, Miquel, Afobe and Aneke loaned out this coming season. I have been impressed whenever I have seen Miquel, particularly at CB.

    The only slight concern I have regarding Yennaris is that a few years back Kerrea Gilbert looked like he was on the right course to become our 1st choice RB after a string of impressive first team performances. Hope lighning doesnt strike twice! 🙂

    MGK;

    Sorry mate, what WAS I thinking? 🙂

  110. i would buy a premiership team. 😉

  111. Honestly;

    Nooooo, not a spanish club man. We havent had much luck with any of our players who’ve been loaned there!

  112. WE could buy Portsmouth for about a tenner.

    Talking of Pompey, wasnt it nice of Arry to say he was going to try and “help out” his former club by having a word with some of the players and try and get them to withold deamnding owed wages?

    Not like he had any hand in fucking the club up now.

  113. mattgoonerknight

    finsbury

    They’d want him, but haven’t got close to the cash either the club or the player wants, so in a sense they lack the ambition to make the transfer happen ; )

  114. Ateeb. In as much as Robin doesn’t agree with the club’s direction, but doesn’t explain why and wants out, that’s fine, I think his contract ends next year and he can of course leave. A wiser course of action would have been to shut up, or hammer it out with Wenger; and so one questions his agent’s motives. Typically when a player goes public like that, it is a negotiating ploy; forcing the club to sell.

    Robin will learn something now, that fans are more important than players and they have memories. We support Arsenal, not Robin van Persie, much less his agent and his destination club. Why should we support a player who plays for another team? What is Robin van Persie? What achievements does he have, relative to those of Arsenal, the club?

    Robin is indeed a very fine player, but he is just a player, and one whose record was compromised by many injuries. There are lots of players, good ones, different ones. A player is neither a team, nor a club. We supported Robin because he played with Arsenal. He did very well last season, and well done. Clearly he is looking after his own interests, and that’s fine, but those are not my interests.

    As for being derisory, it is a case of asking: has Arsenal in some way harmed, abused or maligned Robin, or his career? If it has, he may state that for all to know so that Arsenal may apologise. But if it hasn’t and two parties failed to agree (for any reason, including money), his statement stinks. Why? Because he failed to extend even the normal courtesies, or any courtesies, and say thank you Wenger and Arsenal and the fans that supported him and give credit where credit is due. Now we must do what? He’s either stupid, being used, or doesn’t care because even a neutral knows his statement was designed to wound.

    Aside from that nothing in your posts make much sense I’m afraid.

  115. Sure a prem team would be preferable though I suppose there would be restrictions on that. I fnot I say hell yeah. There are loads of clubs soon to go/ going bankrupt..

  116. *if not

  117. Just like with cesc then! : )

    Gawd you are right. The football was much more interesting. Especially Bouldy’s debut. He’s going to be manager for three CL games. Henry? yes. G*D? T’would be nice. Bould is here, andthat is also exciting. Though in truth AFC should spend some funting cash and get in Quiroz (banished to Qatar for some unknown reason atm.)

  118. That’s alright Dex. You can’t have too many friends.

    Ateeb has done some serious time on here fighting off idiots. With a lot of wit as well.

    I don’t think he deserves to be spoken of in the same breath as the the likes of J****r.

    We all fail to make sense to others at some time.

    Ateeb won’t thank anyonbe for making excuses for him though, so I won’t.

    You can ignore the post that is in moderation ,Yogi. I forgot the ‘j’ word!

  119. I guessed as much Fins!

    Bould’s appointment was as exciting for me as any of the players we have signed, or might do this summer. I really feel he will have a big impact on the team and add his own stamp on things, most obviously the defence.

  120. Onwards and upwards. Who wants to play for the good old Arsenal, the team that pundits love to hate? Ah, Santi does! Well that’s fine then. Come on over Santi and enjoy the fun.

  121. That is very true C-Bob. I definitely have said some very stupid things at times and it is very easy to do.

    I will try and follow my own advice and simply ignore the posts that I vehemently disagree with.

  122. Ateeb used to be a very funny guy, and I mean the fun part in being funny. Those posts are not much fun. It is still possible however, like it is still possible that Robin signs a new contract – because he really wants to play at Arsenal – and retains the captain’s armband, that Ateeb is telling his most elaborate joke ever. Improbable though.

  123. I don’t agree that fans are more important than players. Can’t see any FC surviving without both.

    Still agree with Ateeb.

  124. Zim @ 12:34 – Good post.

  125. Now the stadium is built we need to move up a gear and keep our star players.

  126. Frank – Of course they are. Fans are the lifeblood of any club and are in for the long haul. Players come and go in (increasingly) short periods. Sure they are important, but they cherry pick where they want to ply their trade. You don’t “pick” what team you support. Once you are ensnared by affection for a club, it is for life.

  127. What do you mean ‘at times’ Dex? 😉

    I hear Bendtner is ‘in talks’ with Galatasary…

  128. Fans are professional football, Frank.

    It couldn’t exist without them and when Stan, RVP and the other owners and players have had their way with the club, the fans will still be there.

  129. All great footballers have great egos. Managing great egos is a skill. We could do better at that.

  130. Why, I remember Dex and I having a spat on here.

    I never forget a good spat.

  131. You suggesting that the fans will turn up to watch no players, Cb?

  132. I imagine they just want to measure the circumference of his head – so they can work out the added costs of getting all the doors widened and deduct it from his salary.

  133. Ha! OK, all the time Jonny.! Twat! 🙂

    Keep digging that hole you’ve made for yourself Frank.

    Is RvP a cunt or a hero today BTW?

  134. The ball is just as important as the fans and the players

  135. Yes, we were piss poor at handling henry, betrgkamp and Pires werent we?

    Think you need a bigger shovel. Perhaps a mini JCB?

  136. And lets not leave out the corner flags, or they’ll get upset and have their ‘people’ to post an imflammatory statment on a hastily constructed personal website.

  137. Henceforth I think I will refer to you as Snarkey Two, Dexter, because you are snarkey too.

  138. C-Bobl

    Haha! Yes, I remember too. Ahem.

  139. Whatever floats your boat schizo bi-polar Frank.

  140. I find I have a clear anti-Robin bias because he plays for another team (in my head anyway). Bad ZimPaul. On the other hand I find, on self-examination I have a pro-Olivier bias because he plays for Arsenal, but has never done anything yet. Very, very bad. (In robot voice) I must be strictly neutral. Ah, feck that! Come on AAaaaaaAAAArsenaaaaaaaaaaaal.

  141. Cbob @ 11:37am,
    “This just doesn’t sound like the Ateeb of a couple of years ago.

    My thoughts exactly.
    Either he sold his ACLF identity or someone’s hijacked it!
    definitely NOT the same chap…..

  142. Whats wrong? You need to lighten up schizo Frank, its all a bit of fun now isnt it?

    No one takes what you say seriously after all.

  143. Bob/Yogi,

    What loyalty are you espousing in football? The club has always acted in self interest when it comes to selling players that have been deemed surplus to requirements. Is that loyalty? There is no such thing as loyalty in football. The club as a profit making institution has it’s self interest embedded within it’s logic. Selling Pires, Viera, Henry, Adebayor, Toure, Clichy etc(as well as not strengthening the team in that periods), is pure self interest. Players who don’t make the grade, are sold off. Careers are destroyed, Chamakh is a case in point. The club is not loyal, why should you expect the players to be so? This is not just football, but capitalism in general. That is why I have problems when you try to return to this ideal past which is long gone. Football is as commodified as our very own lives. That is the sad state of affairs in football. But if you look around in general, even in Europe, the situation is far worse as far as people’s lives are concerned. Massive unemployment, violence, poverty , suicides, on the one hand, and on the other conspicuous consumption, concentration of wealth, and the likes. Let’s not take football too seriously, at least the way you’re trying to make of it. Issues of loyalty, ethics and morals have been made redundant. Where not just the players but the club and the supporters themselves operate in a similar fashion.

  144. Actually we were definitely piss poor at handling TH14 and RP7 and PV4 and we very nearly lost DB10 because of our year on year contract after 30 policy.

  145. ZP’

    Have we signed Oliver ToBias now?

  146. Yogi – another enjoyable read.

    Yogi, you are to be commended for developing a site that avoids taking the emotional route of mainstream (average) fans. All (most) of you give serious thought to your perspectives. For me, it’s an intriguing daily journey thru substantive commentary. ( the music selection is another discussion)

    Admittedly, I have had no first hand experience(s) with the club, board, stan, ivan, wenger, any player situation, or other clubs intentions. I consider myself as out of the loop, besides watching matches.

    Any position regarding the above areas that I express would lack factual support; maybe that’s secondary for blogging.

    Everyone may express an opinion, but it is just that. We are all right and wrong.

    When you observe a match, you can witness with your eyes the impact of players. Criticism should be directed at the output of the player, not the actual person.

    In regards to club matters, we are unlikely to ever find out any details. I’m fine with this as there are too many more important issues in life that merit more of my concern.

    I may not agree with player selections, system of play, etc. and be exasperated with disappointing results, but our manager and our players offer a style of play that I appreciate. Optimistically, I’m always looking forward to next match.

    With the signings of the past few seasons (more experienced players), I believe there is much to be hopeful about.

  147. Now firstly I would like to point out that I agree with Ateeb again.

    Secondly though I would like to point out to a certain young man that Schizophrenia and Manic Depression, two very different conditions, share one thing in common and that is that are both serious and sometimes fatal conditions. Using them as a form of insult is no different to using Cerebral Palsy as an insult by calling a person a Spaz…or Trisomy 21 by calling a person a Mong. Both of which I am sure you did in your schooldays, Snarkey Two.

  148. I disagree with you schizo Frank. No surprise there then. I think the fact DB10 stuck around till he retired kinda paints a different picture to the (bleak doomerish) one you are trying to paint.

    I think we could have dealt with Pires’ deal better, but that was more of a contract issue and NOT ego related. But i am sure in your new guise as chief club basher, you will maintain differently.

  149. …and there you go again

  150. Nostrathymus insists…
    PURPLE GUNNER DOUBLE!
    PURPLE GUNNER DOUBLE!
    PURPLE GUNNER DOUBLE!

    I see no reason not to keep the faith…

    understand the envy,
    we have AW.

  151. Its not an insult schizo Frank. its all just a bit of fun, you really should lighten up. Of course I am aware what a serious condition it is,as well as a plethora of other mental illnesses. There is a history of MH issues in my family (some might not be surprised by that declaration).

    And spaz Frank was going to be my other choice of name for you, spoil sport.

  152. I would like to point out that Flu is sometimes a fatal condition. As is a lack of concentration. As is food poisoning. As is, etc, etc……

    It is true though that Schizophrernia and Bi-Polar are indeed very different conditions, it is entirley possible that an individual could suffer from both conditions. So whilst not endorsing Dexters ascertainions, he could be right.

    😉

  153. “Issues of loyalty, ethics and morals have been made redundant.”

    You see, Ateeb, that is not the case for me. Maybe because “…the situation is far worse as far as people’s lives are concerned. Massive unemployment, violence, poverty , suicides, on the one hand, and on the other conspicuous consumption, concentration of wealth, and the likes.

    You also continue to make misassumptions.

    I do not think that there ever was ‘an ideal past’ in football, as in life. It has always been a pertty dog eat dog ‘business’.

    Of course the club is ruthless, at times. We, the fans, wouldn’t want to keep hold of players past their best. We are ruthless.

    I might say though, that a more ruthelss club than Arsenal would have unloaded RVP years ago, not supported him through his injuries. Not too much exploitation of him by the club.

    In the (near) words of, I think Dex., “£130k a week! I nearly crashed me Lear Jet, innit!”

  154. “Selling Pires, Viera, Henry, Adebayor, Toure, Clichy etc(as well as not strengthening the team in that periods), is pure self interest. ”

    Nonsense, utter bilge and doom mongering like i would expect to read on le grove.

    (Apart from Vieira, who was supposed to be replaced by Carrick, then Baptista. But that was the responsibility of the manager, not the board.

    Pires left on a free BTW. How does one replace Henry? WE had Ade and RvP at the club. Toure left and we had Gallas & Vermealen. Clichy left and we had Gibbs and then signed Santos (at the death it has to be said).

    And we did all this at a time when we were financially constrained by the stadium mover, as Wenger categorically stated; we would be shopping in the bargain bins and trying to recoup funds via selling on players for AT LEAST 5 years.

    But why the fuck do I need to explain this to someone who was HERE during that time?

    madness.

  155. Haha! Bob, close enough!

    Football has never been a bastian of socialism has it? It was always the club owners and directors who lorded it over the managers and players. Has anyone seen “That Damned United” BTW? Great film.

    Now the players have far more power and along with their lovely agents they demand more and more of,well, everything basically; money and trophies.

    Football is very different, I love going to games, singing the songs, getting drunk, still doesnt mean fans have to accept the way things are though. or not question

  156. Stop twisting my views. Fucking hell. Same argument again and again. It’s very simple, at one point in time, I doubt we’re going to have more than 2-3 world class players playing for our team. They should be paid accordingly. End of. As of now, we have only one. And he’s your captain, whose done more than all of you put together for the club. And paying him won’t lead us to financial bankruptcy or turn us into a club like ‘City’. It’s quite simple.

    As for the rest of the posts not making sense. Well, that I don’t blame you for it. It’s difficult to comprehend reality as it is. You guys can’t argue nor accept that there is little difference between us and the rest of the clubs. And that is of course, the only way you people can continue enjoying football in general and Arsenal in particular. I’ve stopped caring about these bullshit arguments of self sustenance that has led to us selling players continuously. In fact it’s been an insult to Arsene’s abilities for finding talent and not being able to keep them over issues of wages. What you’re all witnessing as the football losing it’s ‘soul’, well that’s what happened with football being commodified. It’s how things are. Chamakh, Arshavin, Nasri, blah blah, left smaller clubs for a better one where they had a chance to win something. And then we’ve leaked players like that to others club who have better chance of winning or playing in different clubs with better players. Not seeing that is part of your hypocrisy. And it won’t make sense to most of you, because if it did, you’d perhaps not really enjoy seeing football further than you already do. Pretty simple. I for one don’t give a fuck about making a year or two’s loss if it means watching Robin playing for us which we frankly don’t have to if we start selling our deadwood. Which we’ve accumulated a lot of it, due to the risky ways we operate in the market.

  157. ateeb – “They should be paid accordingly. End of. As of now, we have only one. And he’s your captain, whose done more than all of you put together for the club. And paying him won’t lead us to financial bankruptcy or turn us into a club like ‘City’. It’s quite simple”

    But you are presuming he wants to leave because we won’t pay him him enough wages. RvP himself has said it is nothing to do with money so your point is invalid.

  158. mattgoonerknight

    fins

    “The football was much more interesting. Especially Bouldy’s debut. He’s going to be manager for three CL games. ”

    What are you going on about?

  159. ‘Of course the club is ruthless, at times. We, the fans, wouldn’t want to keep hold of players past their best. We are ruthless’

    Exactly. So why bring in ethical arguments and stuff like that. Enjoy world class players in your team and do whatever possible to keep them.

    And this doom mongering that everyone’s been espousing (not you per say), about ending up like Portsmouth and Leeds, are just excuses for not paying the players. If Arsenal is going to start winning again we will have to change the way football is played.

    YW,

    For every Portsmouth and Leeds, you have Real Madrid, Barca (where apart from Robin no one would make their team from Arsenal), Man United, City, Milan….I could go on………………….The top European Clubs who’ve been winning for quite some time now.

  160. Ateeb seems to be suffering from the rarest of the three, commonly confused, mental disorders: ‘Dissociative Identity Disorder’.

    It is common for a new personality to emerge in response to trauma – RVP’s sale for example. We must hope that the old Ateeb is still in there.

    It is possible he may remember nothing of the time spent during his current incarnation.

  161. Fins…..

    Arsene was gifted a 3 match ban (CL) for his comments about the officiating……I think it was the away Milan match.

  162. Some really funny stuff in the comments today. Love it.

  163. It’s my ethics that I care about, Ateeb, not Arsenal’s. You keep making this mistake.

  164. Yeah Madrid and Barcelona, different business models and football is subsidised to some extent by other activities. Exceptionally good role models and in no way related to the Madrid whose deal to sell their training ground to the city of Madrid at vastly inflated prices brought criticism from the Spanish government and Barcelona who two summers ago couldn’t afford to pay their employees wages and this summer are found to owe the best part of £50m in taxes.

    And you criticise Arsenal for not being ethical over building a stadium?

    It’s not excuses Ateeb, it’s the reason why Arsenal aren’t prepared overspend because it’s a vicious cycle you enter. Season 1, spend like buggery, don’t win anything, incur losses. Season 2, spend like buggery, don’t win anything, sack manager, sell players at losses, incur more losses. Season 3, spend like buggery, don’t win anything, sell more players but breakeven…. There’s no guarantees in the route of spending and losing money. Where’s the money coming from to fund these losses? Where? Because if by season 4 you aren’t making money, you’re in it up to your armpits.

    What happened Ateeb, when do you succumb to the Dark Side of The Force?

    Going back to Barcelona and Madrid. Their league is at best uncompetitive. The Premier League may go down that line but don’t forget that both had huge fallow periods in a two-horse race where they won nothing. Barcelona hasn’t won anything by chance; they rebuilt the club, based on a youth project that took years to pay dividends. Arsenal are trying to copy that model, the finances as well since Barcelona is in essence a friendly society that has no sugar daddy. It takes years to get things right. The playing side is on track to produce the level of homegrown players needed, Arsenal are remodelling themselves financially to complete. But in this game, there is always someone who is willing to pay more or be more reckless.

  165. You have been highlighting the divide between the two though, Bob. I don’t think that Ateeb is under any illusions about your ethics.

  166. Jonnyeale,

    Go fuck yourself. By the time I am done with you would be off the internet for quite a long time. I am not engaging you dimwits at all.

    GoonerAndy,

    ‘But you are presuming he wants to leave because we won’t pay him him enough wages. RvP himself has said it is nothing to do with money so your point is invalid.’

    Sure. So since we don’t have any facts as most agree why continue with bashing the club captain, who even in the worst case scenario is looking to get his wages increased.. I think the club has not done justice to Arsene, who has been able to accumulate good players but not been able to keep them, either over wages or the continuous dissapointments they’ve had because of their inability to win any trophy. In order to break this cycle, we need to change our ways and be flexible. Under current scenario I don’t see us winning next season, at least not without Robin.

  167. Love the comments today too. Especially Ateeb. I don’t think I have seen such a drastic change in personality from anyone else yet.

  168. arsenalandrew

    RvP may yet stay, may yet go.

    Things we think we know but much we can only really guess at.

    But as severely disappointing as the whole saga has been this summer, what I’ve found the cause of greater regret is how decent people have turned on one another and the depths to which we sink in seeking to persuade or predominate with our own views.

    It’s been interesting how RvP has, over and again, stimulated discussions that go right to the heart of our personal definitions of what it means to be a football club, a fan and so on. That despite several years of the club being unable to build but, at best replace, or partially replace, our best players, stalwarts such as Ateeb and Frank now find themselves subject to the kind of comments formerly reserved for a breed of commentator that was as unwelcome here on ACLF as it was possible to be.

    I personally don’t agree that we should risk the mortgage on loosening the (van) purse strings; once we go down that road we have no idea where it will lead or when it will stop. A glance over the border and below our own EPL provides ample warning of what can happen when clubs take the road of debt. A sustainable approach may not guarantee our long-term security but at this moment, it seems a good deal less risky.

    But I do share the frustrations of many that again we have struggled to build on our strengths. Replacing rather than strengthening HAS caused us to look to those clubs below us in the league for comfort rather than look up at those we truly need to challenge.

    And we STILL don’t know exactly what RvP meant by his statement although many of us now seem to equate Robin’s ‘ambitions’ solely with the size of his salary.

    And I HAVE been surprised at the speed and vehemence with which the bulk of the support have turned on the captain although I’m pretty sure there’s residual rage left over from last summer – and several summers before that. But he’s not gone yet.

    I can’t really add too much to what has already written.

    Other than – let’s wait and see.

    And maybe lets hold back on the falling out, while we are at.

    Let’s remember who we all really are. We support the classiest club on the planet.

    Let’s support class with class.

    See what tomorrow brings.

  169. Ateeb

    >the continuous dissapointments they’ve had because of their inability to win any trophy.

    The players are equally culpable. They could have won the league in 2007-08 but failed. They could have won the Champions League in 2005-06 but failed. They have failed in the FA Cup at semi-final stage, Carling Cup. They could have done better in league matches consistently which may have delivered silverware. This isn’t just the board’s fault. And no I am not a supporter of the board, either.

  170. Is it really not possible for Arsenal to recognise RvP as a top top player and demonstrate his worth to us by showing that we can keeping him at the club? We need to demonstrate that he is up there with the very best and valued accordingly. I would not be at all surprised if he is not that bothered about the money he might get, but he is bothered about his value.

  171. goonerandy

    i am not sure if some fans are there for the long haul to be honest… where did u think chelski got their ‘fans’ from?

  172. Am I the only who sees the irony in Ateeb admonishing everybody finger-waggy style for “bashing the club captain” whilst he refers to other, more loyal, squad members as “deadwood”?

    I don’t know if Jonny’s right that he’s got dissociative identity disorder. I thinks he’s gone and caught Doomer.

  173. Yup – I definitely preferred the old Ateeb!

    It is not my fault you have turned your back on your own beliefs – threatening me with violence is just leading me to think someone has hacked your account.

    This really is that startling a transformation.

    Oh and you can’t threaten to make someone disabled and then then claim you are not even engaging with them. If you think you can you should consider the hypocrisy in calling them a ‘dimwit’.

  174. we definitely made some mistakes with some players. i think the one-year contract for 30yo policy is dead now, isn’t it? no idea why we got silvestre in.

    anyway, pires decided he wasnt going to stay because of what happened in the final. he was taken off when lehmann got sent off… he said in an interview that for him, that was the moment which told him wenger no longer trusted him.

    looking back though, wenger’s hand was forced. who else could he have taken off?

    but the fact that he came back, henry came back to train up their fitness etc shows that there is still a bond… that all is forgiven but not forgotten.

  175. NotCryingAtAll

    interesting times. RvP behaves like an idiot, we can’t say he behaved like an idioit because….?

  176. Harry Flowers

    “Issues of loyalty, ethics and morals have been made redundant.”

    Nah. You’ve only got to look at Arsene Wenger to see that is not always the case. Supporting a football club is an emotional investment for most of us, the supporters. We love the club. It’s not mere fucking number crunching for us. You can keep your “realistic” vision of football if that’s all it amounts to. I don’t want to see money destroy every last vestige of anything that was ever good. Personally I don’t give a flying fuck about how much Persie big bollocks is eventually paid, and if we can afford to pay him his inflated demands then all well and good. If paying those kind of wages means it puts Arsenal in any kind of jeopardy then no. Maybe you should and go and support one of those “top European clubs” you mention, if it’s all just corporate entertainment at the end of the day and you’ll be saving yourself a lot of stress.

    And that statement that appeared of behalf of RVP didn’t just dig at the board it took a swipe at the manager who has supported him through thick and thin. Unforgivable. He shit on his own doorstep. If he does stay another season it will be because at 29, and with a terrible injury record, his and his agents evaluation of himself may not match what clubs are willing to pay. Don’t get me wrong he’s a truly world class footballer and and on his day he’s an absolute joy to watch, I will miss seeing him in an Arsenal jersey but I’m not interested in a player that obviously no longer wants to play for us.

    “Lastly, what’s wrong with the way City has gone about with their business?”

    Dear me. Honestly. Pfft.

    I dunno. A couple of hot sunny days in this country and people’s brains start frying.

  177. Frank – We need to demonstrate that he is up there with the very best and valued accordingly. I would not be at all surprised if he is not that bothered about the money he might get, but he is bothered about his value.

    Even if he stays, he has diminished his value to us. He might be one the best strikers in the PL, but he is no longer a reliable Arsenal captain. If he was bothered about his value, perhaps he should have taken that into account before he tried to force a move.

  178. YW,

    It’s not just Madrid and Barca but almost all top European clubs. As of now there is no chance that the likes of Chelsea, City or United are headed towards a doom scenario. You have Milan, Inter and Juventus (?) as well who have kept plugging in money and winning. As for the EPL teams, I doubt big clubs like them are going to go into administration, given how much of the clubs have been turned into toys for national and individual capitals. The problem that you’re not realizing is that, given that we can operate much more effectively in the market because of Arsene, it’s completely ridiculous that a man of his talents has not been able to keep players over wage issues. Moreover not winning either because of lack in squad depth or not having the right players has resulted in this stupid cycle where we are not able to keep our best players, while incoming players really have started seeing Arsenal as a platform to get to the top European clubs where they have a chance for winning. Even pool fucked up not because they were amassing debts, but only because they made some really horrific buys in the form of Carrol and all (under last year of Benitez and henceforth). We have a much more clever manager, who if given some muscles to flex can really lead us back to the top teams in Europe.

    I don’t think we need to spend too much, we already have a very strong squad because of various reasons. What we can start doing is keeping them. I think as supporters we should do as much as we can to dilute the differences between the players and the club. However in most cases we’ve continued our unconditional support for the ‘club’ while abstracting the players from the club. It’s time we start thinking over these things. We should support our players, rather than bashing them like we do. Who knows what his issues are? If it’s money, well it’s becoming clear that if we don’t change our ways ‘ a bit’ we will keep leaking them. Even with so much debts, I think given our brand name, the property in London, the stadium e.t.c, I doubt we’ll run into any ‘big’ problems. Especially when we need to tackle our wage hierarchy which even you agreed with me needs to change.

    Bob,

    Of course I know about your ethics. We know each other long enough to know that we’ve always shared similar views regarding these matters. However, times do change so do circumstances. I am trying to think objectively about this situation without bringing in my own personal issues on this matter. Objectivity demands that we take football as it is, in it’s bastardized form and think strategically from there. if it’s about ethics, than of course I wouldn’t disagree with you at all.

  179. FFS Shoot – yes, I know. I could see what it was and that you’re right – I was just trying to think of a preferable diagnosis to fit the symptoms.

    Never seen it take effect right in front of me and with such a startling progressive rate. At this speed he’ll be writing for Blackscarf AFC by the end of the week.

    I’m writing this whilst wearing a hazchem suit BTW – this shit could be contagious.

  180. Well said Mr Flowers.

  181. “Lastly, what’s wrong with the way City has gone about with their business?”

    Absolutely brilliant.

  182. Harry Flower,

    ‘ I don’t want to see money destroy every last vestige of anything that was ever good’

    Buhahaha. That’s delusional if you think money hasn’t destroyed the last vestige of anything good. You think the Ox, Nasri, Giroud, Poldski, didn’t join us for money, eh? Of course one good reason to join has been Arsene, but the club has really fucked it up, when it came to supporting him either funds or keeping players. The club is not too different from Southampton now, given the players we are selling off to the clubs who are winning in the EPL and the CL. The point is money has already destroyed the ‘last vestige of anything that was ever good’. I do feel the same way as you, but that’s how things stand.

    I don’t think paying more wages would get us into jeopardy especially because we don’t spend too much money on player transfers.

    ‘Maybe you should and go and support one of those “top European clubs” you mention, if it’s all just corporate entertainment at the end of the day and you’ll be saving yourself a lot of stress.’

    Oh so you’re delusional that Arsenal is operating differently from other clubs? Most of our players are bought from different clubs all around the Europe. Vermalen, Koscielny, Robin, Henry, Cesc, Nasri, Podolski didn’t grow on trees outside of Emirates but were bought from different clubs through different ways. Even clubs like Barca despite their astonishing academy have to buy players at times. What’s the fun for you? That Arsene can buy cheap players? It’s all about money in most cases. We given that went for a particular model because we financed a stadium could allow young players to perform so we can compete, but we didn’t win. You all just don’t want debts. You’d rather fucking drive your own club captain to the airport as long as it means Stan doesn’t accumulate debts. Fucking hell dude.

    Here is a reality check for all of you as well. There is no more ‘youth development’ model going on at Arsenal. We’ve changed. That is why we’re buying experienced players from right and left the last two years. We only bought the Ox, last year. It’s all been experienced players, cheaper ones but good ones.

  183. i think wenger has made clear how he values van persie.

    it is the clubs that claim to want him that arent valueing him enough.

  184. Salty ones?

  185. i seem to vaguely recall ateeb being one of the voices of reason. guess he’s gone now. our numbers are dwindling

  186. Yogi. Another good read thanks

    Nice game yesterday and a good way to start preseason.

    If we really sign carzola it would certainly represent a real break from our usual MO and I am very happy to see that

    Very happy we signed the kos to a long term contract. Clearly the first name on the team sheet with our defense. I highly doubt that we signed him for wages that are 50-60% of his open market value.

    The whole ownership and money debate for me is simple. Ownership should have 3 priorities which in order are 1) keep the team on reasonable financial footing. 2) do everything possible to help the team to win 3) make profits and pay yourself.

    Each of the prior generation of owners made more then $100M from their sale of company stock during a time when they had the squad on a Raman noodle budget and raised ticket prices every season. I realize that is simplistic but there is clearly something wrong with that picture. Self sustaining as it was practiced by the club turned out be a method to generate capital gains. Owners have a duty to keep the club in good financial footing but they should also be fans and unfortunately priority number 3 appears to have moved a long way ahead of number 2.

  187. You’re all so fucking elitist. Only Arsenal, United and Pool have the right to win. As if you weren’t fucking buying players back in your time. Now that chelsea and City have outbid you, you’re all shaken and created this moralistic arguments. How does Villa win the title? No way? If they go for youth development, I am sure Arsene would tap up most of their players as would other teams. The only way for other clubs to succeed is to use money and massive amounts of it. Oh but that’s wrong, because only Arsenal United and Pool have the God given right to win and use the money ‘ethically’ by which you lot mean under £15. Absolutely rubbish.

    If all of you can collectively come up with the answer that how can some team like Villa can win the title without spending money, kindly let me know. I’m going out for lunch now. I’ll be using money for that.

  188. Still agree with Ateeb

  189. it’s ok to speak up for van persie, but now he is just starting to sound like a doomer.

  190. I do think the board could do with a shake up. Arsenal need some younger blood in the big room to continue the great history of Arsenal FC going forward.

    Yogi, I love to read your blog and long may it continue. Football is romance, so my glasses are always rose tinted.

    Finally, if you really need to better understand Arsenal Financials then read Swiss Ramble.

  191. well, montpellier won the title last season. dortmund won two titles in a row. lille won it before montpellier. conditions in those two leagues are different, but it shows that it can be done.

  192. Ateeb is not a doomer, he wants us to keep our best players.

  193. so now ateeb has gone to using ‘you’ instead of we.

  194. I see Wenger has already distanced himself from Cazorla – but then he would, wouldn’t he!

  195. On a seperate issue entirely. A few days ago, YW used the old ‘chicken or the egg’ question as in ‘which came first’ when writing one of his (as usual excellent) posts. The only problem being that question has been answered:-

  196. Frank if Ateeb thinks that there is nothing wrong with the way Shitty have gone about their business he is not just a doomer but a doomer poster child.

  197. Calling it “business” is a big fucking joke and all.

    The way Shitty are run has precisely NOTHING to with business!

  198. korihikage – not even ‘you’ but ‘you lot’. Sheesh.

  199. i think people don’t seem to understand that the main gripe is the statement: the wording, the timing and the fact that no one at the club knew about it.

    most people jumped to the conclusion that it’s about money and perhaps rightly so, since isn’t signing two big name attackers a sign of ambition? even that caught the ones usually bemoaning our lack of big name signings and late transfer action were in approval.

    then the finger gets pointed at the club for not valuing van persie enough, at the board for keeping money to themselves.

    if the market rate is 200k, then i am sorry, that market rate is distorted.

    i have a question to frank and ateeb: if van persie goes, then would you still support Arsenal? since Arsenal have obviously let you down (in your opinion)

  200. I understand what Man City have done, they have tried to play catch up with the big boys of the league in a very short period of team. The problem is they have created a situation where they have so inflated transfer values and more importantly player salaries. The latter is a real issue for the club as they try to move players deemed now surplus to their requirements. If you look at the Adebayor transfer to Spuds, it has broken down due to pay demands from the player. If Ade was given 180k per week at Man City why should he accept 100k at Spuds? Would you?

  201. squad numbers are out. interesting that podolski still hasn’t got a number assigned to him.

  202. Kori, I assume he is in line for number 10… should Vantastic leave

  203. would like to have seen Grioud get the no. 9 😦

    my squad and formation….

    —————Szczesny——————-
    Sagna——-Kos——-TV ——-Gibbs
    Theo—–Arteta—-Song—–Gervinho
    ————-Poldoski
    ————————-Grioud

    I guess something like a 4-4-1-1, though the wide players are still as effective as a 4-3-3. I thought Theo’s crossing got better last season, need Gervinho to look for that kind of improvement as well.

  204. Could it be Podolski will be wearing No. 10?

    http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/squad-numbers

  205. I support Arsenal through thick and thin,korihikage

  206. Frank

    that’s good to hear.

  207. Arsenal release squad numbers for next season

    Why is it only Podolski that has a “To be announced” number ?? maybe he is holding out for RVPs number 10 ?? hmmmmm. The speculation continues

  208. or maybe Park’s number 9 ???

    hmmmmm. Speculation

  209. The way the Little Mancs are run has everything to do with business. Business far beyond these shores. The whole point of the club under current ownership is to act as a bridgehead and beacon for lots of other business opportunities for Abu Dhabi and UAE. My concern about the Little Mancs is that they are run by a country…and that they tapped up RvP in January.

    Nevertheless I think they can be beaten. FFP will have some effect and we don’t have to buy lots of players, we are already doing well on that score this season. But we need to flex our muscles and keep RvP, our talisman and captain. If that means demonstrating his value in financial terms then so be it.

  210. Miami

    seems to be the case, unfortunately.

    well, people will say that’s exactly the same problem we have with squillaci, bendtner etc.

    just on a much smaller scale.

    personally if u love the game enough, you would do that, just so you could play but people would (probably rightly) say you are crazy.

    i guess most footballers have plenty of bills to pay eh? and probably taken their job too seriously that they have forgotten why they started playing football in the first place.

  211. You think I don’t support Arsenal, korihikage?

  212. Love of Arsenal , the beautiful game as it should be played, exists on every continent, rich and poor, in people of all political and religious beliefs. I

    Seriously people. We all love Arsenal. Obviously we all come from different segments of society, different countries, different cultural backgrounds, different religious (if any) beliefs and different political views. Given all of that, I can’t see how we can discuss the team and NOT be in disagreement about things.

    But I see no reason why someone can’t criticize an aspect of the club’s stewardship without being subjected to churlish childish name-calling.

  213. Frank,

    no. actually tht question was probably more intended for Ateeb, since he really sounded very hurt from Arsenal that i thought he might just quit on the club should van persie not stay.

  214. Ateeb, strangely enough isn’t wrong, but I don’t think he’s particularly agree with him neither. Continuing my vagueness, I agree with Ateeb on some points and disagree on others.

    Without condoning or condeming, I understand

  215. Harry Flowers

    I don’t give a fuck about Stan the man or the board. I’m under no illusions there. That’s not what I said. No offence but your being when disingenuous it suits your argument. I care about Arsenal and still having a team to support in ten or twenty years time when the wind eventually changes direction.

    “You’d rather fucking drive your own club captain to the airport as long as it means Stan doesn’t accumulate debts. Fucking hell dude.”

    It appears more likely that RVP was looking for his agent(s) to drive him to the airport when that mendacious statement was released. However they may choose to drive up to Manchester.

    If you can’t see the evil of the Man City approach, and how they are destabilizing our own club then I don’t know what your looking at. That’s the only issue here. To compare with how Arsenal have done business in the past is a silly. A little bit as Arsene might say. Elitism?!? that’s utter bollocks. Ludicrous.

    Still good on plucky lil’ City eh? Mansour and co have come along to stick it to the man. Er. Oh.

  216. Oh he supports Arsenal, korihikage, of that I have no doubt. He just thinks that we are too conservative. Set in our ways. We need to move on…and I agree with him.

  217. Frank

    I don’t share your unbridled optimism:

    >FFP will have some effect

    They’ve already circumvented it with their sponsorship deal and the regulations are so loose that it is almost inconceivable that a club with any clout, will fail them.

  218. Kori, YW has alluded to Bograde as an example of a player who would not be moved because he was substantially over paid on a contract and chose to see it out rather than seek playing time. I personally believev that there are a number of players that would choose to do the same. You quite rightly mentioned the issues Arsenal seem to have with a few players so you can imagine what Man City will have to suffer. I believe that in the end the transfer of Adebayor will indeed go through the question is how much of his salary Man City are willing to pay to have him go.

  219. Frank are you being deliberately obtuse?

    Obviously, I was referring to how the club is run – it is one of the few clubs which is not run as a business – The Arsenal is.

  220. To be fair YW, we are really none the wiser on the details of the Man City sponsor deal yet. All the figured in the press are just speculation until detailed figured are released. I read an article recently that seemed to suggest that UEFA were still reviewing the details and that they had instructed all parties to say nothing. I am not saying that is the case, but it was what was stated in the article.

    The case is twice as difficult because the stadium was rebranded, it was not a new standoum with a new name. I believe that this is the first case of this type in Europe. The second is that the deal includes sponsorship of the development around the stadium. I personally think Man City will skate on this deal.

  221. Miami

    i would understand if a player is near the end of his playing career. but a player relatively in his prime just sitting still on a big contract… i think if you have pride as a person, as a professional, you would go somewhere else.

    but we have so little values left in this world that i am not surprised.

  222. Yes I agree with that, YW. My optimism is not unbridled, I just think that they will be constrained enough not to be able to produce the destabilizing effect they have done to date. After all we might name our own stadium again soon and we still need a name for our training facility. I think the Galactico approach can work, but only briefly. If we can keep a toehold then we are in with a great chance over the seasons to come because of our young players coming through. If we can keep RvP we are in with a great chance this season.

  223. i think no one wants van persie to leave right now. even those who have been hurt by his statement would probably forgive him if he clarifies things and stays.

    the only person whom i can imagine to want van persie to leave right now is probably his agent/advisor/whatever u call that shit leech

  224. Why is pointing out the fact that the club is run as part of a much larger business with huge scope, obtuse, Jonny?

  225. Kori, I agree but greed is the new black.

  226. It is interesting that the Spanish Government have finally come out and said that they are now planning on getting over due taxes from Football clubs… this is a major change for the Spanish Football scene, and effects all clubs not just Malaga.

  227. Miami

    City constructed the deal with Uefa’s input!

  228. i do think that man city is part of a grander scheme of things. maybe a tool for that country’s soft power? i don’t really see how they can make money out of football.

    how much money can u really generate from football, with the ballooning wages and transfer fees? i think most clubs are struggling with debt. as a whole industry, it is probably just a few steps away from a full-blown collapse.

  229. “greed is the new black”, what the hell is that ??

  230. Miami

    ur bit about the Spanish govt. that would be really interesting. i mean the country really needs the money, and technically, that money is theirs if it’s overdue. interesting times ahead..

  231. sorry Jeff, it is a fashion term… everyone wants something in black

  232. Yogi, my apologies I was not aware that UEFA personally provided input on the deal thus ensuring FFP compliance.

  233. Think of it as a huge advertising sign, korihikage. Think Blade Runner

  234. Kori, it had to come especially as Spain are now seeking bail outs from the European Union. Football clubs in Spain have always been treated differently from all other businesses and now the Government have realised that they cannot afford to continue that perference when the economy is in the tank.

  235. Philmar, do you think that Ateeb has not called people names? I believe the Ateeb of a few years ago would have called todays Ateeb names. He believe’s we’ve been “had! Been took! Hoodwinked! Bamboozled! Led Astray! Run Amok” by Arsenal, he is wrong though, it is the sport overall.

    Players should be paid a decent wage but going to matches should also be cheaper. Ironically, the more the players get, you best believe that the cost will be past down to the supporter. Oh yes, it will happen sooner or later. Strangly, I believe Arsenal are trying to make sense of it; a little sanity in the insanity.

    Ateeb has an issue’s with people calling RVP names, I don’t like name calling but if one has no issues with name calling overall then it is best to not say anything; that is hypocrisy. People have been called names on this blog for much less that what RVP did as far as I can see and Ateeb did not run to their rescue. He really has not leg to stand on and actually he is the one being self righteous.

  236. Love the comments today too. Especially Ateeb. I don’t think I have seen such a drastic change in personality from anyone else yet.
    Hi goonerwife, good to see you, I dont think it is Ateeb commenting, probably one of the doomers who knew he would get accommodated if he commented in Ateeb’s name. If this was any other poster we would by now be calling him names , van pursie/pussy would seem mild.

    Harry F and FFS shoot @ 2.08 and 10 respectively comments of the day.

  237. mattgoonerknight on July 25, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    What has happened to everyone? As arsession mentione above my comment twas just a reference to the ban that AW has been given by his pals at UEFA.
    The ban that AW originally got for protesting against the white elephant in the room which obviously has no bearing on the players: the referee’s. Right. This must be my moment to scarper. Have fun all. The RVP saga will possibly run until September.

  238. Frank

    basically they have been trying to buy up everything. they built a Louvre Museum, they got prestigious unis to set up campus over there. they are basically trying to create culture, history and tradition in a short amount of time.

  239. Korihikage

    I want him to leave and for the deal to be done asap for the maximum amount of money we can get. I then want that money to be re-invested in the squad by Wenger as he sees fit, be that strengthening or renewing deals.

    I think there are boundaries, the ego of the modern day player is out of control and van Persie crossed the line with his statement. To put it in very basic terms I think he was a cunt for what he did, similar to how I thought Rooney was a cunt when he pulled his stroke on United. The fact that one is employed by us and the other not by us does not make me distinguish between their acts.

    There is nothing to clarify in my opinion.

    That’s not to say I hate him or will boo him upon his return, nor will I suddenly decide he is not the player I thought he was 5 weeks ago. He is still a top drawer class act.

    Players are either into what Wenger is trying to do or they are not, if the latter then they leave and good luck to them.

  240. anyone have a stream for the Team GB v NZ Ferns game?

  241. Because it was quite clear what I actually meant, Frank. Pointing out the wider context as though it refutes my point is not a valid or worthy response.

    In fact pointing out the blindingly obvious to me (that it is about business but in a much wider context) is to assume me for an idiot.

  242. “Harry F and FFS shoot @ 2.08 and 10 respectively comments of the day.”

    I’ll go with that.

    Paul N – weighing in with a late entry at 3.47.

  243. Frank asked if the people would fill the stadiums with no footballers, but would footballers be playing in Stadiums without supporters?

    Since money is really what it is about from all the points of view (apart from the support, since we don’t make a dime for the most part), we have to look at where the money comes from. No company would sponsor any club if there were no people viewing the game. Yes, the supporters are THE most important part of football.

  244. I must say I am surprised at the abuse ateeb is being subjected to. ONE of his points is that at some point Arsenal will have to start paying top market salaries if it doesn’t want to continue to lose it’s players that develop in to world class. That is a given since we’ve seen a few leave over the past few summers.
    I think he’s dead wrong to say we need to take loans to buy players or pay salaries. But I don’t subscribe to the doom and gloom view that paying our top players higher salaries will cause us to do a Leeds, Portsmouth or Rangers. Our current annual turnover is double or wage bill. We can still pay higher wages and remain sustainable. IMHO I think we are paying high wages to too many players that are surplus to requirements. If we could have offloaded a few of them sooner then we could afford to pay the more deserving players and still follow sustainability.Higher top end salary structure IS still sustainable, more so if we could offload the salaries pulling us down.

    Paying a worldclass player high wages doesn’t mean we are emulating the unsustainable models of Shitty and Chavs. After all Bayern and Juve pay their top end players competitive wages. They built new stadiums recently. They aren’t backed by oil money. It’s not a pipe dream.

  245. It would appear to me that the EPL needs BOTH players and fans.

    That said, I’ve watched riveting games of kids playing sandlot football in may parts of the world. They didn’t have fans – other than me. Sometmes they didn’t have a ball other than dirty old rags bound together in to a spherical shape.

    So the beautiful game can survive without fans and a ball, but the EPL can’t.

  246. Mgk
    I think I’d better clarify: I think Steve Bould must be excited about making a debut as a top level manager in the CL. By the time he’s finished he’ll have about half the number of games ‘arry had in the CL. What a way for a English coach to announce himself to the world as a coach/manager. Took ‘arry thirty odd years and the death or dismemberment of two or three clubs to reach that level.
    I think it’s an exciting story.

  247. I also said that neither would be any good without a ball, Paul-N

  248. Jonny, the anger with which you are responding would indicate to me that that was not blindingly obvious to you.

  249. Philmar, do you think Ateeb could do a better job at running Arsenal? I doubt it but and if he can, he needs to offer his services. It is easy for us to sit on a blog and be so dogmatic and to go as far as saying that Arsenal lack ambition.

    I also think stating other teams is fruitless unless you have the whole financial picture. Are they in the exact same situation as Arsenal? and if I am not mistaked the team said they were restructuring the pay scale. Surely RVP will get good money. However, he did say it was not about money, so go figure the need to pay him so much more.

    I am not sure if you read my last post but others have been on the end of attacks from Ateeb. You are new so you may be surprised, but this is not new.

  250. Philmar – I think it is more to do with what is surely the abruptest volte face ever made as a ACLF poster. His post at 8.37 was something else and completely at odds with the Ateeb we have known over the last few years.

    Yogi surgically skewered the holes in that comment at 8.49.

    I actually don’t think he has had much actual abuse whilst he has threatened physical abuse and started referring to us as ‘you lot’.

    And let’s not forget the truly awful/incredible city comment!

  251. Ah I seeeeeeee Frank, so you do think I am stupid. Good-oh.

  252. Phimar, surely we are talking about professional football.

  253. Shit sorry Yogi – I broke t’interweb. 🙂

  254. Jonny, seems you set of the bold lettering.

  255. Paul – I don’t know what ateeb posted prior to my arrival here a few months ago. I have seen firsthand how dissenting viewpoints here are derided: usually through ad hominem attacks. I too have called people names here on the board but that was only after I was subjected to them first and repeatedly sniff sniff.
    I think ateeb lost his composure after reading a few too many churlish comments.
    It’s just something i noticed here. Whatever differences we have we do have one commonality and that should be enough to keep us civil.
    ‘Nuff said (adjusts pith helmet and hunkers down in newly dug trench)

  256. Frank, yes you need a ball, and even those cost money.

  257. Fins “Took ‘arry thirty odd years and the death or dismemberment of two or three clubs to reach that level.”

    Yeah, but at least those clubs spent some f***ing money!!!

  258. I hope that Ateeb sticks to his guns. Whether he does or not he has certainly enabled me to form an opinion that I can be comfortable with. AFC do need to move on, need to be more innovative when it comes to keeping top class players. It does not mean that AFC need to emulate the Little Mancs. But it does mean that our wage structure needs to change and it means that we need to show that we know the ‘value’ of players right at the very top of the pyramid. Money is a part of that equation but I suspect it is much more complicated than that.

    There is an opportunity here to bloody the noses of the Little Mancs, firstly in the market and secondly on the pitch, and I hope we take it. I think we will. I think Arsenal are on to it. No better manager than AW to adapt in that way. I just hope that the Board support him.

    Thank you, Ateeb. You are a star.

  259. I agree with you Philmar as far as us all being civil. But as far as Ateeb losing his kool, nope. If you have dished it out, get ready to recieve it. He also doesnt have an issue with name calling, just himself and RVP.

  260. Whether I think you are stupid or not is not important, is it, Jonny? You seem to have attached that label yourself. I have no thoughts either way.

  261. You really do have Dafargian tendencies, Paul-N.

  262. Forgive me, Paul-N, but American Christianity seems so Old Testament somehow.

  263. I would imagine that Ateeb is having a good old chuckle to himself, and a well earned rest.

  264. Players leave Arsenal because of inflated salaries available elsewhere, always have (Brady), probably always will. Boo hoo, bully boys coming in and taking our boys.

    Quite simplistic a statement really.

    Oddly enough not even a decade ago we had a team with players the envy of the footballing world at home and abroad– Campbell (who I assume in modern parlance would be a greedy so and so given that he did to Spurs what van Persie is about to do to us), Vieira, Pires, Henry – players who each and every one were probably among the very, very best in world football.

    They stayed with us, we were winning trophies regularly.

    There is more to it than just money and paying top dollar. There will always be somebody willing to pay more. They may not be able to offer success or as good a chance of it.

  265. So I am not me?

  266. Frank, to be honest, I don’t know what that means. But whether it is positive or negative, thanks.

    What I do know is that I will stand up for what I believe and not waver. If you can show me to be wrong, I will admit it though.

  267. jonny

    Quite funny really, that the interweb should get broken with that comment…

  268. Miami

    The someone who has no power or influence over it but likes to think they do!

  269. Quite so Yogi I had a good chuckle at myself.

    I must be stupid though – what does Dafargian mean?

  270. I have read many people all over the blogosphere calling for a reasonable investment in the squad. Not the type of investments done by city and chelsea, but reasonable investments.

    How much is a reasonable investment? We have spent 25 million on Giroud and Podolski. Cazorla rumours have been hotting up and that deal could be near 15 million. A potential 40 million investment. Even if the Cazorla rumours are not true, I think we are looking to bring 1 or 2 players in especially after the Rosicky injury news. I believe Rvp was offered a very decent contract, the best in the club’s history.
    Does a potential 40 million plus offering the best contract in club’s history not represent ambition or a resonable investment on part of a club not being run by a sugar daddy?

  271. Frank, I am not American and don’t follow American Christianity. If you read my comments clearly, I say that if one is not against something over all then you cannot cry when the chickens come home to roost. That is not old testament, I am dealing with reaping what you sow, very new testament.

  272. Reaping what you sow is very New Testament, Paul-N. Sticking the boot in to someone you believe has fucked up the harvest is very Old Testament.

  273. Jonny

    God knows which means I must be stooopider than you. Unless of course, I am misguiding you once more…

  274. Is that what I am doing, well in my heart that is not my intent. If that how it is coming across, my apologies to Ateeb.

  275. Sorry. Is someone asking me what Dafargian means?

  276. Not telling you

  277. Dafuq does Dafargian mean Frank?

    Its a Google whack.

  278. If I was an Arsenal player and I had to go to a Gala Dinner with the Little Mancs, I would pull a sicky. If there is not bloodshed at that event then I want to know why.

  279. Oh no its not you need two words, my mistake.

    What is the language?

  280. Dafuq is a Google whack, Deano?

  281. IG has talked about tweaking the wage structure. I think the club is trying to improve the wage structure now but it will take some time.

  282. He needs to get a move on, Sahil

  283. So, I see Ryo got a squad number then.

  284. Tagalog Filipino!

    Frank its where you type a word into google and it retrieves only one result.

    But you need two words for it to qualify. So it isn’t.

    It does however only retrieve one result on google.

  285. Who needs to get a move on, Frank?

  286. Jonny @ 4:29:

    Most times ateeb’s opinions have coincided with the majority opinion on the blog. However he has always said what he really believes. His view on this topic surprised me a bit too but him saying what he thinks about this or any subject no matter what most people think does not seem out of character or make him a doomer. In this case he has a different opinion.

  287. Frank, what part of IG’s working do you not agree with?

  288. @sahil
    I think Frank meant by “get a move on” that IG should get the restructuring of our wage structure done quicker.

  289. Notoverthehill

    Yogi, the rangerstaxcase has some very astute and impeccable researchers, that highlight the changes in the modern football world.

    That is the formation of Premier Leagues in both England and Scotland, have divorced the top clubs from the also rans in the lower leagues. The European Champions League has accelerated the split between the haves and the have-nots. The root cause was the demand for European and finally world-wide television coverage. The SKY dishes and larger television sets have set on on-demand need for “in situ” entertainment (?).

    Apple have pushed the envelope forward with the handheld mobile. I would suggest that mobile providers with the advantage of GPS coverage will, with the necessary technology, will be outbidding the Channels. The man sitting in his car in the local supermarket car park, will watch his favourite team on a screen in the car, and his better half with her own mobile, will be able to anticipate her spending spree?

    LSG and the Arsenal Broadband Ltd, thank you very much!

    C-bobs has disappointed me, on his doorstep is Plymouth Argyle. Here is a prime example of the “spend it today” argument with holding a 2018 World Cup match (I kid you not) and being brought back from the dead, by dedicated supporters. Up and down the countries are instances of people saving their football club. The Arsenal cannot survive without a League, the Laws of the Game, the Ownership and Management, fans and last of all the players and then the match officials. First of all, of course, is the infra-structure of the Stadium.

    Pie in the sky? Or back to Tottenham Marshes?

    Afeeb, has possibly missed his lunch ? or worse has lost his job?,

  290. Sorry if I misunderstood. My bad.

  291. No you’re good

  292. pedantic george

    Robin’s statement on his personal website was an act of betrayal.That’s it.End of.That ,for me ,entitles anyone to call him what they wish.I don’t give a flying fuck how good a football player he is.If someone is to be excused despicable behaviour(and that is what it was ) because he is our “best”,”world class” or “whatfuckingever” it is a poor reflection on the person doing the excusing.
    Ateeb ,You accuse me of being an armchair manager,then proceed to act like an armchair CEO.
    You ,despite being told ,still do not understand why people are annoyed with RVP.In short you are being a tit.

  293. blooming heck..

    ateebs really going for it…
    i happen to agree by the way, not with everything thats been said..but the general point of it..

    i fully beleive that if we were to offer rvp a 200k a week contract for example, we can still self sustain, easily..

    i dont agree with the ploughing of money into the game though, unless its our own money, theres nothing wrong with that..

    we lived by this ‘new’ policy for a reason, it was to move to a new stadium..the stadiums built the finances are rolling in, the propertys all been sold, the ticket prices are through the roof the cash reserve is nice and juicy thanks to all the property and players sold and the sponsers are up in two years.. (by the way sunderland have just grabbed a shirt deal thats up there with UTD and liverpool..so we should bang it, and if we dont then the commercail team need their p45’s)

    its time we kicked on and became a football club again..becuase this share price business that has engulfed the club in recent years has destroyed great side after great side and its also turning good people who once stood side by side, against eachother..

    it started off well by signing the strikers we so needed last year, but this has never been a problem, weve always signed good players, the problem is that these players have always been replacements for the big names we end up selling..the captains we end up selling..

    it needs to stop, and we have the resources to do it, our own resources…

  294. NOTH
    Regarding the twenty five man squad rule. My guess is that Arsene, Abou and even people reading YW’s post (‘Diaby’s last stand’ bit of clue there I would say, in the title) can all count to twenty five. But it’s good to have your expertise on board.

  295. Dupps @ 5:45

    Do you really believe that you either do things the way arsenal has or the only other option is to slide off into oblivion like Portsmouth or rangers? Isn’t there any middle ground between the 2 extremes?

  296. Really enjoying ‘reported ‘comments from AW. Excellent. Very positive.

  297. Has to be a middle ground, Bill…and I think AW is onto it.

  298. @Bill
    I asked you a couple of days ago to show a club that traversed the middle-ground and you failed to do that. I think you admitted that you don’t know of any.

    Furthermore, your suggestion that investing only the money one has is “extreme” is ridiculous. Sorry mate, can’t put it any other way. The “other” extreme would be that all the profit that is made is diverted away from the club and we never, ever spend money. But we don’t do that. We have bought players every summer and all the profits we have ever made have been reinvested in the club, be it through contract extensions, transfers, etc.

  299. Evil, we are Arsenal. We do not go where others have gone before. We plough our own furrow. No club has gone down the middle? I suggest that it is the middle for us then, old chap. Come along there, don’t dawdle at the back.

  300. But this middle does not exist. You can’t be self-sustaining if you have to rely on loans to be able to buy or pay players. Once you start doing that, it’s a downhill spiral.

  301. Don’t need loans

  302. Bill, what is your definition of the ‘middle ground’ and what specifically would it take for Arsenal to reach your definition of it?

  303. @Frank
    Not sure where else the money is supposed to come from?

  304. …and winnings

  305. pedantic george

    Premium bonds?

  306. If AFC numbers number come up, yes. Otherwise no. Too chancy.

  307. pedantic george

    Scrap the minimum wage and pay the top earners more?
    Dont pay injured players.
    Reduce the squad size.
    Get shut of the youth set up and buy quality proven class players.

    Piece of piss this CEO malarkey

  308. Piece of piss this snarkey malarkey

  309. AW would appear to be buying proven players and trying to keep RvP and trying out the next set of youngsters. Seems to be with Ateeb doesn’t he?

  310. pedantic george

    No

  311. for example
    firstly, some really beleive that there is no cash reserve….but IG and PHW said last year, when everyone was worried that we would miss out on CL, that we had enough to be ok ..
    wel,l if we only break even if we make CL and dont sell any property or players, then we must have something saved somewhere to cover the cost of missing out on the thing that helps us break even..
    also, the transfers and wages of both the strikers we signed would have probably cost the club what? 40mil?? where did that money come from?

    coincidence? not really..but people still think the cash reserves a fantasy..

    secondly, i dont know where people get the idea from that we will go bust if we pay a couple of people 200k a week..
    no we wont..
    why?
    well if we can afford to pay around 30mil a year in wages to players who dont even make the bench then why cant we afford 30mil a year on a few worldy players who could make anyones first team??

    isnt it abit contradictory that its wrong to pay someone 200k a week who deserves it, but its ok to see the same amount of money go down the toilet every week on certain players who dont?? isnt that as much as a waste of money as what it is paying ‘the going rate’ for a top player?

    its a ridiculous policy and by applying it the club contradicts itself in every aspect when they say they cant afford the big wages…

  312. Evil.

    Limestone yesterday mentioned Bayern and juventus that pay top wages to top players and are doing well by managing their money in a much better way they we have. ManU does not take loans to finance players purchases as far as i understand. The glazers are skimming money off the top to pay off their loans or united could be spending much closer to the way Citeh does without a “sugar daddy”.

    My point has always been that the club has become risk averse to the point of hurting performance on the pitch. Significant part of the negative cycle we see now is because we have lost site of the importance for a club like ours to have more success in the short and medium term and it’s almost impossible to have that success if you can’t keep your best players. You know that better then I do. IMO we have gotten our priorities reversed. See my post at 2:34.

  313. Well it was all good for the time. But now we must move on….and we are doing. Thanks to AW.

  314. Very, very exciting

  315. Jon Jon;

    No one deserves £200k a week man. Jesus christ on a bike.

  316. The debates on club policy have become a little boring as there is nothing new to say from either side. So the only way to spice things up is to change sides I guess.

  317. @Bill
    Bayern are a good 70 million ahead of us in revenue, but do you know what? They don’t pay their top players the going rate! Their best paid players, Robben, Schweinsteiger, Ribery, Gomez, they all earn in the region of 120k p/w. No one at Bayern goes home every week with the 200k that ManCity are willing to pay. And do you think Juve are paying their players the money ManCity is paying? Their best paid player, Buffon, used to earn 120k p/w .. and he took a pay cut this May down 2 million per annum so he can stay with them, and he is still their best-paid player. Juve’s wage bill is significantly lower than ours.

    Actually, Buffon is a fantastic example. He’s earning 80k p/w now, down from 120k p/w. I am sure he could easily go anywhere in the world and earn probably twice, but he took a pay cut for Juve, he took a pay cut so he can finish his career with them. A truly admirable player

  318. Though I will agree that breaking their wage structure to afford RVP is a calculated risk on Juve’s part. But it’s something they can only pull off if they don’t have to pay through the nose for his transfer fee. Which we will hopefully make them do if our ex-captain is to be transferred.

  319. Well, pay the players whatever but on the flipside we cannot complain about the cost of the game. To hell with those who cannot afford to take part.

    I have said this before but football is sick. The only thing worse, for me, is the approving of the madness all in the name of winning things and keeping these stars.

  320. Evil;

    Apparantly, Juve are prepared to pay RvP £120k a week. Which may well mean, he doesnt end up in Italy.

  321. I read about 190k p/w which would be crazy since it would be more than twice what they are paying anyone else on their squad. Though I guess they are thinking that they can afford it with their CL income for next season.

  322. Evil; The italian dude on SSN said it was 6million a year, not sure if he meant Euros either?

    Apparantly Arsenal and RvP havent even discussed new wage figures, by the way.

  323. Well thank you, Evil.

  324. dex
    fully agree mate
    nobody deserves that much..and to be honest im just pulling that figure out of the air, like many others…

    but at the same time we live in a day in age where i never thought id see ticket prices as high as they are, or players sold and bought for 10mil, nevermind 30..

    its the way footballs gone..

    its a disease isnt it? but to be honest its not like arsenal have been immune to it..we jumped on the money bandwagon ages ago…

    we just aint all that good at balancing it with being a footy club.. and i think we can do better..

  325. Dexter, 120k p/w would definitely make more sense, since it’s what Buffon earned before his pay cut. But then again, if RVP goes to them for that amount of money, I would actually regain some respect for him. Because it would mean that his wish for trophies would be genuine. Saddening, that he would believe that he can’t achieve it with us, but if he goes to a different club for 120k p/w (and we are supposed to be offering him somewhat more .. 130 or whatever it was) when ManCity mega bucks are waiting, it shows that he has at least some integrity left.

  326. Evil, I appreciated your comments on Sunday bro! really!!

  327. True dat, Evil. If he goes for less then credit to him on that end.

  328. JJ;

    Things are fucked and they are fucked because the likes of Oil city can offer ridiculous sums as they dont have to worry about mere piffling considerations such as balancing the books. And that has had a knock on effect hasnt it? Shit, we’ve done it to death man. ManU Rooney, blah blah…

    The ticket prices are are a joke and the club need to balance that out with paying the players a competitive salary. Thing is though, we are not a top tier club, despite what some misguided souls think. We have the stadium and manager, but historically we are a notch below. Hence the wage structure.

    But that is being adapted and about time too.

    But as has been said, it isnt even about RvP’s new wages, well according to that statement anyway.

  329. Nostrathymus insists…
    PURPLE GUNNER DOUBLE!
    PURPLE GUNNER DOUBLE!
    PURPLE GUNNER DOUBLE!

    I see no reason not to keep the faith…

    understand the envy,
    we have AW.

  330. Ok Keyser, I’ll give it a go.

    Let’s give RVP £200k a week to show him much we really love him. And IG should do his job and tie Theo and Alex down to long-term contracts. £150k a piece will do it no problem. We need a marquee signing to signal ambition, I’d like Neymar who I’ve decided could be got for about £60m and 300k per week. This will all be paid for by increased commercial revenues (Adidas kit). We will be guaranteed success by the brilliance of my idea and all world-class players will be drawn to our victorious standard even when Wenger leaves to manage Brazil.

  331. yeah i understand that, rvp statement about it not being about wages is the counter arguement..

    i was just following on from what ateeb was saying about paying our players more, and ppl countering that by saying its not self sustainable..

    i think it is..

    without loans…

  332. Nibor nav Eisrep
    tsum reven niatpac lanesrA reve niaga..
    Reven niaga!!!

  333. and the way i see it is that teams like city and chelsea had to spend 500mil just to catch up..

    the moneys been fucking the game for years…
    jimmy hill
    trevor francis
    blackburn rovers – jack walker
    sky

    city and chelsea aint the first, nor are they the last..

    but as with all revolutions, you have to go with it…or you get left behind…

  334. @Paul
    No problem. Hope you had a fantastic birthday!

  335. I am also confused why some people think that spending exactly what you have is a form of extremism and frugal. Isn’t it what we all do? Spend what we earn. No one would applaud someone who’s constantly in the red, waiting for his wage to arrive just to slip down into the red again a couple of days before the month ends. Living like that is a recipe for disaster.

  336. JJ;

    I think we already have been offering him a better deal, its just that he and his advisers have been blanking the club for months now. Wenger wants to keep him and no doubt his new deal will be massive, just not Oil city massive.

    Evil;

    Its a sick joke that s[pending what you earn/have is seen as being unambitious man. The short term thinking shown by the likes of ateeb is endemic in football and society in general TBH.

    No thoughts for the future and when I say, i mean 100 years from now, not 5 minutes.

  337. if arsenal would have been too ‘classy’ not to follow the crowd when trevor francis went for a million we wouldnt have won fuck all under wenger or graham..

    its evolved into teenagers who nobody knows going for 15 times that..

    who’d have thought that in the 80’s?

    i know the money in the game today is sickening but thats the way it is..
    just like it was back then, go with it….

  338. No JJ, you do not simply shrug your shoulders and play russian roullettte just keep up with the joneses. That is a not the way forward. A pay review, with the best earning more, or with more bonus related payments is all good.

    Not simply paying Oil City levels cart blanche.

  339. i really hope he stays dex..
    whatever the cost..

    i however cant stay though, must dash…

  340. Ha! Laters mate and I agree, almost! 🙂

  341. so let me get this straight….Ateeb and frank are saying the same things as the le groan mob!!! ok…spend spend spend…

    and how do we know george has never kicked a ball? i bet he has kicked a few balls in his time.

  342. The conversation keeps centering on what we have offered him. His statement blamed the direction of the club, not his proposed wage packet as the issue.

  343. JJ, but should we keep following the sick trend?

    I had a disgreement with a guy just recently and unbeknownsed to me he taped a conversation we had. He did it to other people also. Anyway, he did it to the wrong person and now has a federal lawsuit against him. My point is that he did not stop going in the wrong direction until it was forced on him. Is that what we want with Arsenal? Maybe what you think and others will not be good for the team for the long term. I am sure it is a little more complex than what you, Ateeb, Frank and Bill think. Maybe it isnt, but we don’t have enough info to rightly divide.

    We all have opinions but lets be honest, apart from not winning trophies and some players having their heads turned, we have a team that the world enoys to watch and most of the players want to stay. I believe the winnings will come and maybe some things need to change but should we allow the likes of RVP, Cesc and Nasri to make lose sight of what we really have? I cannot speak for you but for me it is a big HELL NO!

  344. unbeknownst even.

  345. @GA
    Though I’d really wonder what exactly he didn’t like about the direction. We bought Podolski before the end of the season, probably the only time we’ve done that in recent years. Then we got Giroud in, we are in the market for a midfielder. I mean, he can’t complain about the transfers we are making, can he?

  346. DukeyG;

    Haha! Yeah, he has kicked a few 1000 balls in his time and enjoyed it each time I bet!

  347. Paul @ 6:39

    You know as well as I that it’s not about a specific amount of money but a mindset of the way the club has been run for several years. Making due with a player like silvestre especially when a player like Kompany became available for 6-8M or not replacing almunia in the summer a couple of seasons ago made no sense if our braintrust really believed the team was good enough to win a title. Do you really think the boss rated Silvestre? . Fixing those sort of holes in the team would not have endangered our long term financial health. You can say its easy in retrospect but many could see these sort of things prospectively. That’s the sort of middle ground I mean.

    As for today see Jon Jon’s post. We need to win again to get off the tread mill we are currently on and it’s very difficult to win if we lose RVP this season and may be Theo and/or Song next. We can afford to keep doing this.

  348. Evil – Yeah, it is curious. Only AW, IG and RvP know the truth.

  349. Nostrathymus insists…
    PURPLE GUNNER DOUBLE!
    GUNNERS PURPLE DOUBLE!
    PURPLE DOUBLE GUNNERS!

    I see no reason not to keep the faith…2012/13

    ..understand the envy,
    we have AW.

  350. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
    When all the spendthrifts are agreeing with Ateeb’s polemics, I am convinced it is basically nonsense. Yes, some semblance of truth but at the end of the day pie-in-the sky nonsense.
    As PG alluded there is a very corporate way of meeting the ambitions of those who want the club to innovate and pay super statrs the going rate
    * End the minimum wage/let the stars earn as much as you can pay
    * End the free medical care injured players must pay
    * Eviscerate the school system, sorry the youth program
    * Raise the taxes, sorry, ticket prices on supporters
    * Incorporate in a tax haven and avoid paying taxes

    There is no free lunch according to today’s corporate elite. Get Ivan out of here.

  351. ateeb’s numerous rants are misguided and ill informed. If i knew as little as him about the state of european football clubs, i definitely wouldnt be throwing their names around as some sort of model for AFC to follow.

  352. Chelsea appeared to have completed the signing of that Brazillian chap. They have certainly made some good buys, but a short in the striker department.

  353. so i take it ateeb and frank will be advocating the arrival of Usmanov.

  354. Shotta/JJ/Evil/Andy/anyone else who is remotely interested;

    The ONE thing I think most can agree on, something that isnt even disputed, although judging by the condemnation ateeb has been issuing willy nilly, you’d be forgiven for thinking otherwise, is that;

    We all want RvP to stay and we all want his new contract to reflect his value to the club.

  355. Andy;

    Apart from Hazard, I am not up to speeed with the others. Although marin has never impressed me TBH.

  356. Andy; Had you even heard of Oscar beofre this week man? Be honest!

  357. If some people think our ‘deadwood’ is too hard to get rid of because of high wages, imagine the problems City have when they supposedly pay everyone twice what we do.

    Might be why they can’t clear space for Robin, or might not. I am getting a bit weary of paying attention to summer soap operas, even if they’ve been going on forever.

  358. @Dexter
    No one will disagree with that. I think RVP deserves to become the best paid player in the history of our club.

  359. Bill, no, I don’t know. Actions must follow the change in this percieved mindset. My question is what are the specifics of the change.

    Surely we have gotten in some players that are not as good, you can all them mistake but what makes you think Kompany wanted to come to Arsenal? Maybe Silvestre was who we could get at the time and yes I think Wenger rated him to some extent, so did Fergie. Surely, you are not saying that Silvestre was the boards doing.

    I saw JJ’s post but he ends up saying that it his opinion.

    I have found many of the opinions to be dogmatic.

    A lot of assuming.

  360. Whether the Chelsea signings are top notch or not, it shows that Roman hasn’t tired of throwing money into his toybox. Bummer, since many hoped once he’d won a CL, he’d turn to the ponies or autoracing.

  361. True Busch.

    No idea whether the players will gel, or be any good, or whether Di matteo will last till xmas. But spending = ambition, so the chavs are the favourites for the title right now.

  362. Silvestre seemed like a good signing at the time. An experienced international, not yet 30, someone who’s been there and done it. Someone who could function as a mentor to the younger players and who would hopefully display enough solidity to be able to step-in when necessary. Unfortunately, he turned out to be a different kind of player — same as with Squillaci, but I don#t think anyone can fault the idea behind those two signings.

  363. After his agents website statement the subsequent silence of RvP and his agent is interesting. The coyness of the clubs sniffing around is also interesting. The Big Manc bloke has piddled around a bit, but everyone else is being very shy. Except for AW. Wonder why?

  364. Dex – Nah, of course not. Any football fan could not fail to be be excited by signing a £20M Brazillian attacking midfielder though eh?

    Agree 100% on the RvP situation though.

  365. True Andy! I got a bit carried away with the thought of us signing Ganso, even though I have never heard of him, or seen him playing! 🙂

  366. pedantic george

    So did I Dexter.Before his act of betrayal .Now I don’t want him at all.
    JJ,what happened 4 years ago is not much more relevant than what happened 40 years ago.We are better placed now because Arsene made such decisions then.
    JJ,one more thing ,When you have a contingency fund ,it is not for spending on day to day expenses.

  367. If we sign Santi cazorla, would that represent ambition being shown? Given the signings already made, I would have to say yes. A new kepper and we would have been set for the season. Yet we are not thanks to an ill timed statement. Whether there are any merits or otherwise to the actual content isn’t the issue right now.

    George; I truly hope this whole sorry affair doesnt just boil down to being about a player demanding to be paid outrageous sums just because his agent has told him what he can earn up north.

  368. Just noticed that this article was noted on Arsenal.com.

    Sad that I have not discussed LK signing a new deal but that is great news. Another clear sign that the club is being ambitious or trying to be. Hard to find a better Central Defender than this young man. Well done, Arsenal.

  369. PaulN;

    It is indeed excellent news. Something that should have been seen as very positive for the club, yet has been allowed to be overlooked thanks to the pointless shite that has engulfed this place.

    Koscielny had other clubs interested but said he only ever wanted to stay with Arsenal.

  370. What I am about to do is very distasteful, I apologise in advance.

    here is how I would approach the RvP/Theo contract issues;

    Offer;

    RvP £140k four year deal. With bonuses totalling £50k a week for things like goals scored, win bonus etc. he would then be getting a massive guaranteed wage and be motivated & ‘encouraged’ to continue his level of performances.

    Theo; £90k over five years with add ons totalling £20k a week for similar.

    If that amount of filthy lucre didnt cut it, then… oh shit!

  371. dex were used to your distasteful comments!

  372. Oh it wasnt the post that was distasteful DukeyG! 🙂

  373. seems we have to get used to ateebs though!

  374. pedantic george

    I tweeted this on 23rd April.
    Some people need to remember what has been lost by ALL of us.And get off their fucking high horses.

    george rodger ‏@Blackburngeorge
    God and Baby God Afc Legends @Persie_Official and Dennis Bergkamp http://pic.twitter.com/VE5Y3hwr

  375. Did The Duke mention “distasteful comments?
    What has the world gone to? 🙂

  376. I say lets just get rid of rvp or wenger can put him in the secret dungeon under the emirates where the black bin bag brigade are….unless he gives an apology for disrespecting us all.

  377. pedantic george

    Shotta ,It seems you were the only one who got my post about the new direction.Talk about going all right wing.

  378. Evil:

    This is old wound for me but Silvestre was let go by Fergie and we got him for free. Fergie knew what he was when he released him and it was obvious to us soon after we got him, but he was the first back up CB for 2 seasons. It would not have cost us big money to replace him. Same with starting the season with Almunia 2 years ago. The boss clearly didn’t trust him and that season was our best chance to win since 2008. We had the best squad in the league on paper and the rest of the top of the table was the worst its been in a decade. You can’t start a season like that with a GK you don’t trust. The club has been penny wise and pound foolish many times in the past and still has its # 2 and #3 priorities (see post at 2:34) backward in the way its thinking about the wage scale IMO.

  379. jesus christ this is poor

  380. pedantic george

    Just a bit of fun,Frank.

  381. been reading rvp’s statement again frank??

  382. Seems to me that snarkery is just another form of laziness

  383. don’t say i’m going to join the snarkey gang aswell frank..

  384. Well if the cap fits, dukegoonem. Though pigeonholing is not my style…or hobby. In fact I think it is cruel.

  385. “Giroud wanted to have information [about Arsenal]. I did my job and told him that Arsenal was a club where there was everything he needed to improve.

    “With the stadium, the training centre or in terms of atmosphere in the club, I told him what I thought about the club and that’s what tipped the balance.”

    Love this quote from Kos – such fantastic news that he has committed to an extended stay with the club.

    Link http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2012/07/25/3265612/koscielny-urges-van-persie-to-stay-and-help-arsenal-end?

  386. I agree Passenal.

  387. The St. Stanley comment was not aimed at you, Passenal, sorry. Cross fire and all that. Might have something for you later in the Summer. Maybe make you laugh.

  388. Aside from YW, who knows some facts, Evil is the first and only poster who has given any relevant facts; and his facts say that Arsenal is at par or not far behind top salaries in two top european clubs, Bayern and Juve. One would assume it is at par with Dortmund. As for the rest, it’s all just childish speculation, as no one knows what RvP deal is offered or whether that’s the problem. Certainly it is not a problem with Sagna, Vermaelen and Kos. What I want to know is: what are the top 3 players at comparable clubs in EPL (except City) being paid, compared to Arsenal: Rooney, Nani and Evra; Lampard, Essien and Cole; Gerrard, Suarez and Reina; Bale, Modric and … um … Adebayor maybe; and at let’s say for Arsenal who are the top 3 earners? The contention is that Arsenal “radically” underpays it’s top players and so loses them, but only facts can show that. Are we underpaying 5%,10%, 30%, 50% or what? Do players in england earn more than elsewhere? How much?

    Now the problem in answering is that you have to have sight of the contract, the whole deal, the bonus, duration, any perks and special clauses to make a comparable study. And you don’t have that. As my beloved wife would say at this point, just say it: “I don’t know”.

    Which makes the polemics, with due respect, nonsensical ego-talk between typical cliche know-it-all football fan types. Ooops. Sorry.

    We all know only one thing: Arsenal has, from a financial perspective, over-performed for years.

    Disprove the following: The reason Arsenal loses more than its fair share of players, especially to City of late, is (a) because we have more than our fair share of better players than the other teams. And (b) we sell them, most times, because that has been our strategy, for now, dictated financially.

    Secondly, RvP is going to embarrass a lot of posters if he does an about turn, which could so easily happen. What if, what if … the truth of all this was so crude you could scarcely believe it if you knew it. And I bet it is.

    Thirdly, Wenger is building rapidly now, and has been for a year, and the club feels increasingly confident financially. Wenger is not messing about; he feels it is time. Santos, Mertersacker, Podolski, Ox, Arteta, Jenkinson, Gervinho, Giroud, maybe Cazorla, Ryo, Campbell. When was the last time Arsenal bought 11 players in 12 months, including 6 highly rated international players, and two who should be?

  389. Who am I kidding, though. I mean…this is Passenal. Think about it. Never going to happen.

  390. I agree with ZimPaul

  391. Bill, you make stuff up. How do you know Wenger didn’t trust Almunia?

  392. Wow, I have been catching up with the comments. Interesting.

    Just one question though. Did a member of the red and white gang bite Ateeb on the neck?

  393. pedantic george

    “Secondly, RvP is going to embarrass a lot of posters if he does an about turn”
    He can do as many turns and pirouettes as he wants.He can’t travel back in time and not publish his betrayal.

  394. pedantic george

    Your posts go from strength to strength

  395. @Bill
    I am just going to point out the small inaccuraccies. We did pay money for Silvestre and he was never purposefully our 3rd choice centre back. Djourou was ahead of him in 2008/2009 but then got injured the season after. And as with Almunia, there was documented transfer activity by the club trying to get someone in. We were close to signing Pepe Reina for example several years ago, but the deal fell through.

    I agree that those were issues that needed adressing but the club was aware of it and trying to get them sorted. I find it hard to blame the club for something that’s not entirely in it’s powers and say they didn’t have their priorities straight when, very obviously, they tried to attack those issues. You are now probably going to say that the club should’ve broken the bank and paid whatever was asked to get the deal done, but we are forever going to be divided in opion on this line.

  396. Steve,

    ‘Players leave Arsenal because of inflated salaries available elsewhere, always have (Brady), probably always will. Boo hoo, bully boys coming in and taking our boys’.

    Most of the players that join us especially from the ‘smaller clubs’ in France come for similiar reasons. We’re not acting too differently from City, given that we buy young and they buy experienced players-which they can and have to in order to stand any chance of competing for titles in Europe. That’s football for you. People have been hurling abuse at me, for just pointing out how things are run in current times. I’ve also tried to show how we operate in the market and our own misconceptions (including mine in the past) about the ideal way of football.

    I don’t care much about wages or salaries nor about our ‘good’ money and the rest ‘bad’ money. That’s also a very peculiar phenomena in capitalism, where the ‘new’ money is considered uncultured and even corrupt at times in contrast to the old cultured ‘right’ way of doing things. I don’t think we do things any differently, we buy players and pay them salaries just like any other club. I do think, that given how clubs and football is run these years, the only way for any club that lies outside the ‘old and established’ clubs would have to spend a lot of money to compete and fair enough, to break through the heriarchy of established clubs (Think City displacing Pool in the top 4). We’re done better than most because of Arsene, but we’ve fallen into an awful cycle of leaking players which requires changing the way we run the club. All this nonsense about us falling into administration has been erected by people today only because they didn’t have any other argument to mine. In order to determine the complexity of the situation, I was just taking the worst case scenario of taking loans to fund wages which wouldn’t be much. As for financials, I think we can create a wage hierarchy without taking loans, but rather through better management. My views were corrupted by the rest, in order to launch their attack.

    I’ve never said take massive loans to fund players or anything like that. I completely agree with Frank, who has put things more articulately than me at times.

    Johnnyela,

    ‘I actually don’t think he has had much actual abuse whilst he has threatened physical abuse and started referring to us as ‘you lot’.’

    You’re hilarious. Really. Man up son. I’ve never threatened you physically or violently. I said by the time I’m done with you, you’d not come online for a while. Unlike your hyper masculine mentality, the only thing I meant was i’ll trash your dumb argument and nothing more. Really. Grow some.

    And of course I have negated my own arguments that I have made over the last few years. I know that better than most of you. And I understand the surprise and venom my views have received. Like I said, we need radical rethinking over our views, which have been constructed with little objectivity. I haven’t resorted to ideal worlds of ‘good’ or ‘bad’ money. What matters to me, is seeing Arsenal compete with the rest for trophies and not just for the ‘best stadium’ or ‘financially run’ club. The latter has usually meant extracting cheap French players from smaller clubs (the same thing you all hate about City doing to us). The idea is that you apply the same yardstick to yourself that you’re applying to others. A bit of honesty I guess.

    As for ethics and morals, I mean you can create as much as you want around yourself, which has little to do with objectivity, rather just seems like a normal nostalgic reaction to the domination of football by the abstractions of capitalism. Ideally we should all have enough free times in our lives that we can truly enjoy the sport by playing it much more than we do rather than sitting and watching.

    It’s not just the wage structure, but us not competing at the top level that has also led to us leaking players. A dialectical understanding means, you take in as many concrete determinations as the object under analysis requires. In other words, I would have liked to see the likes of Cesc, Clichy, Robin and even Arshavin and Adebayor succeed with us. If that meant breaking wage structures so be it. I for one, don’t give a damn about Stan’s profits.

    Lastly, as for me going back against the views I’ve held for the past 5 years or so-that’s part of life. We’re not operating in the same scenario or the market we were 5-8 years back. Times change, my views have changed as well. To me, it’s progress rather than anything else. As for comparing me and Frank to the doomers, first we never asked for buying 30m players, because we don’t need to. We already have a strong squad, what we do need is to keep them. Moreover our logic of keeping players and paying them salary has been quite different to what the doomers have held. It’s not about winning at all costs-rather winning through strategic use of our resources. If the stadium was built so we could compete better, I think it’s about time we show that, rather than keep going on about self sustenance which has led to our decline. Right now the only trophy we seem to be competing for is the ‘best stadium award’ and the ‘best financially run club’-none of which should be the criteria for the ideal world. They should be complimented with winning on the pitch as well as allowing Arsene to keep his best players.

  397. Limestonegunner

    Evil’s figures for Bayern are incorrect, as far as I know. Sorry ZP. Ribery is reported to be on 164K/week and Robben is on 150K/week. I haven’t checked their other senior players because it is obvious that the top end of their wage scale is higher, as I suggested on Tuesday’s post comments. These are contracts made a couple years ago, so it will be interesting to see who might get even more if there is a new big signing. Arsenal have yet to pay a player in this region.

    I haven’t gone to check Juventus yet, but the fact is they do appear willing to offer something in the region of 190K for RvP. So if they are going to be bold in recruiting one of the world’s best strikers, why shoukdn’t we try to keep him, since we won’t have to pay a transfer fee? At least keep him a season on his current “low wage” and think of how much we are saving!

  398. Hahaha YW
    super witty and informative
    what did the DENCH say to. The spuds
    The little shit
    give the captaincy to SAGNA
    he sure is deserving and worthy
    TV. as. Vice-cap. Or TR
    that is IF RVP. leaves
    UP THE. GUNS!!!!!!!!

  399. Well said, Ateeb. I agree with you.

  400. It really does not make sense to let Robin go.

  401. It is devil and the deep blue sea. Don’t sell him and hope he will change his mind during the season? Or get the best deal possible for the club and re-invest the cash?

    Ateeb – I agree with a lot of what you have posted recently, but this:

    “It’s not just the wage structure, but us not competing at the top level that has also led to us leaking players”

    Is a huge point. And one which RvP seems to be holding as his reason for not resigning. Incidentally Bill has been saying much the same as yourself and getting slated for it, so I would not worry about the doomer label.

  402. Keep it going, Ateeb

  403. @LG
    I checked again and you are correct, sorry. I made a mistake because I had found two statements (one that says that Robben and Ribery are in a similar wage bracket and secondly, that Robben’s wage is at 5,5 million Euro) and only now by rechecking realised that the statement about Ribery and Robben is fairly recent, while Robben’s wage figures were relatively out-dated. He is earning as much as you say since he signed a new contract this May, but before he was earning what I wrote in my post. I made the wrongful assumption that both statements were from around the same time. Mea culpa.

    I am still getting slightly lower numbers than you are, but I assume that this might be because of currency conversion factors fluctuating. Ribery is earning 10 million Euro which turns into 150k p/w in pounds, but I guess depending on if the Euro gets stronger or weaker this might obviously change accordingly. However at 150k p/w this is still significantly less than what Manchester City are able to pay their best players, but I think that it’s realistic to assume that we will have to start paying similar wages to Bayern in the future to stay competitive.

  404. “It’s not just the wage structure, but us not competing at the top level that has also led to us leaking players”

    And the main reason we have been less able to compete is because key players keep jumping ship.

  405. …and why do you think that might be,ffs?

  406. Thanks for your support Frank!

    So Bayern isn’t operating the way we thought we did? Oh my. They bought Ribery and Robben for a combined fees of 50m Euros. Dirty little bastards, acting like City. And that too, when the transfer values weren’t this inflated. And they’re paying them much more than we thought they did? Good Lord! People have been making up stuff to hurl abuse at others who have been trying to bring some sanity back to this blog-against the unconditional support for profits and the board.

    Ffshoot,

    Like I said there are many determinations. We can’t look at wage structures, squad depths, not winning trophies, financials, and self self sustenance in isolation, but together dialectically, in order to make sense of the complex situation.

  407. Too many greedy, faithless cunts Frank. Thought that would be obvious. Glad we didn’t break our wage structure for Nasri or Adebayor. Would have supported breaking it for RVP until he broke ranks.

  408. “It’s not just the wage structure, but us not competing at the top level that has also led to us leaking players”

    We may not have won anything for the past 7 years but we have DEFINITELY BEEN COMPETING AT THE TOP LEVEL!!!!

  409. Excellent point Firstlady.

  410. @Ateeb
    As I pointed out, there is still a significant gap between Bayern and what Chelsea or ManC are paying, be it individually or cumulatively. And the 20 million that Bayern paid in 2007 for Ribery isn’t much different from the 15 million we paid for Arshavin a year later. So, your point is?

  411. Ateeb

    >People have been making up stuff…against the unconditional support for profits and the board.

    Which is what you’ve done in the space of one sentence.

    We went through this yesterday at length, self-sustaining philosophy is about making profits to reinvest in the squad. Arsenal do not operate their transfer spending any different from other clubs in England, namely that the ‘transfer warchest’ is typically a sum for renewing contracts and buying players. The board set the amount, the manager decides how it is spent. There is a unified culpability in its distribution.

    Bayern Munich. Now there’s a bloody good European club, how club’s should be run. Of course, it is owned 51% by supporters which is the Bundesliga rule and is licenced more strictly than the Premier League.

  412. Well, you are sounding more reasonable now, Ateeb. As is Frank. You have honed your arguments more carefully and dropped much of the obvious nonsense. You have one or two points to make but you are starting to sound like a spokeman for the Lib Dems rather than the Freedom Party.

    However, your basic premise, that we should spend what we have to to succeed, just doesn’t cut it.

    Success isn’t that important. Supporting one’s team is just what one does.

    That sham thing, ‘success’, well, it’s a big lie, isn’t it? Ephemera.

  413. Yogi,

    “Gervinho and Diaby put in useful shifts which given the former’s apparent loss of confidence post-ACN is good whilst anything from the latter that has not resulted in injury has to be considered a bonus.”

    I think that can be quite a bonus over the course of the season:

    Fingers crossed on his injuries

  414. Oh yes, over the course of 90 mins, I can fully appreciate what Arsene and his team mates believe about Diaby’s potential: actually, I think that potential has already been shown and can only improve with (prays quietly!) sustained full health. I think B’ham City would agree:

    A fully fit Jack and Abou back at the heart of our midfield – who could ask for more?

  415. You patronising cunt, Bob

  416. arsenalandrew

    I do ‘get’ Ateeb’s frustration – it’s a frustration I share. I’m pretty certain all of us do, really.

    With RvP, combined with the existing squad, plus the recent welcome additions we really do look nailed on to win SOMEthing this year.

    So the obvious thing is to pay Robin whatever it is he’s asking (let’s say it’s £200k pw over 4 years, assuming it actually IS a salary issue that’s causing the problem).

    Let’s imagine we are right and this coming season we go on to win the EPL but lose Robin to a very serious injury whilst losing the final of the Champions’ League. One of his chocolate legs have not only come-off following a mis-timed ‘fresh-air’ volley, but have in fact melted under the heat of the floodlights; he’s gonna be out for MONTHS.

    The obvious thing to do is replace RvP in time for the new season with that new Dutch wonderkid none of had heard of 12 months earlier. He’s asking £200k pw over four years but he’s young so that’s a no-brainer. Incredibly, Theo’s just had the season of his life, scoring 30 goals including a hat trick in the CL final which we eventually lost 4-3 after Kos was sent off for being too good. Theo’s agent is now demanding that Arsenal show some REAL ambition for the season ahead and renegotiate his recently signed contract to, say, £200k pw over four years. A brand new website appears and Theo chooses to update the fans whilst his agent hastily adds some ‘history’ to the site.

    Arsenal stall, the fans are going nuts, the media are having a field day. Already fingers are being pointed at Wenger and the board for having committed the club to 4 years (“FOUR YEARS!”) to RvP – madness! What with his injury record ‘n’all.

    Citeh come in with a big offer for Theo – £50 million and they’re offering to pay him £300k pw for 5 years.

    Arsenal stall.

    Are we going to be a one-season wonder? Where’s our ambition? Don’t we know the way of the world has changed – we HAVE to win the CL next season to REALLY prove we’re the real deal. We CAN’T leak our best players every other season.

    What’s it to be?

    Far fetched? Or just a stone’s throw from reality?

    As I say, I DO get Ateeb’s frustration but equally feel the RvP saga – IF it IS based on his salary demands (which he currently states is not the case) – is the thin end of a very thick wedge indeed.

    A slippery slope which once you start to head down it, could prove very tricky to get off.

    And I DO see signs of evolution at the club – IG HAS said the player salaries are being re-evaluated, people ARE being moved on, experience in the form of new players are being brought in.

    Without meaning to put words into Ateeb’s mouth, we appear to have a choice in that we either join the revolution started by the Chavs and fuelled still further by Citeh and the their European equivalents.

    Or, we stand by the club and Arsene Wenger, and watch our own revolution get played out.

    Hopefully with RvP.

    But quite possibly without.

  417. Ice Cold in Alex – took 24 hours for that to percolate. Nice one tho’ YW.

  418. Ah well said Andrew. I totally agree. Thankfully your more articulate than I am (damning you with faint praise there) and express yourself with an eloquence I could never muster.

  419. Bob,

    I will respond to you, once you figure out how a club like Aston Villa can win the title. Until then, I don’t think we should really have any discussion on this topic. I haven’t changed my views from yesterday, it’s just that I am starting to make sense to you. Give me another day or two, then you’ll see how radical your own thinking can be.

    ‘dropped much of the obvious nonsense. ‘

    That obvious nonsense is a reflection of reality, which you’re ignoring or putting aside so that you can drink cidre and fool yourself into believing that Arsenal’s approach is different or ‘cultured’. Old bourgeoisie mentality. Can’t have none of that:p

    ‘However, your basic premise, that we should spend what we have to to succeed, just doesn’t cut it.’

    That’s just a ridiculous statement on your part. Unless you mean, that we are a club that is growing our own players. Kindly name me the players that have come out from our academy that are playing in the first team. The point is that we’re already operating like any other club, tapping players, buying them from smaller clubs etc. So this idea that our approach is different is just a load of bollocks. What though we have managed at the cost of our football on the pitch (which the trophy draught as well as players leaking) suggest is a certain amount of financial stabiliity, which allowed our last owners to bag huge amounts of money and will continue to do so for others.

    I am not even saying we have to do this or that right now, I am saying we’re already doing a lot of things that other clubs are doing. What though I am suggesting is that in order to keep our best players-the one who have secured the top 4 for you for years-we will have to pay them more because the market dictates these things.

  420. I agree with Ateeb

%d bloggers like this: