Dutch Auction Begins As Arsenal Set Off On Tour

Don’t get me wrong, Robin, I appreciate your performances in an Arsenal shirt. I adored the goals; I was as mesmirised as the defenders you left in your wake or as bedraggled heaps in the penalty area. They will not be forgotten.

But.

You’ll never get one of these:

Remember those who you have played alongside in your time at the club.

They ought to:

Will it feel hollow to know that a part of London will forever belong to these men? Will your money bring you comfort?

But.

You choose to be remembered as one who put money above all else. When the roll call of Arsenal Legends is called, your name will noticeable by its absence; so will Cesc’s, so will Nasri. You’ll just be good players who passed through the marble halls.

Heads will always be turned by money, it would hypocritical of me to chastise you for that. And yet I will for there is no comparison to the ordinary man in the salaries, in the size and nor in occupation, in the adulation that thousands, nay millions, point in your direction.

I understand the desire to win trophies but where is your admission of culpability in failing to deliver them for Arsenal? Maybe you have disagreed for some time with the club’s financial policy but do you think that we bought this excuse? Where was this last summer? Vocalising now, trying to tap into the supporters psyche with your excuses was a fundamental misjudgement on the part of yourself and your advisors; you don’t support Arsenal. If you did, I offer your heroes quote:

I really like Arsenal. But you, do you really like Arsenal? Or just with trophies?

We know your answer.

And so the mating ritual begins. Reports emerge of three bids for van Persie’s services, none coming up to scratch. It is the same as the Samir Nasri scenario last season. Now the peacocks feathers are shown; the end game is in sight. How many of three will drop out remains to be seen. I wonder if the price is the same for all three. Do United and City have to pay a premium for being in the same competition? Do Juventus get a reduction for the opposite? What of Milan, do the same rules apply? I can reveal that there was a fourth bid; Clive Allen reckons two-bob ought to be enough to buy van Persie.

The dishonesty of his website statement bit to the core; a lesson Andrey Arshavin‘s advisors have apparently taken to heart: his next move, most likely this summer, is for money. His time at Arsenal effectively came to an end when he went on loan earlier this year but fair play for telling it how it really is.

Another summer, another key player departing against a backdrop of allegations of refusing to tour. A de facto strike? Sorry, that is one reason for his omission that I do not buy into. Unless of course, someone can prove it is true. A deal is close to being struck with one of the interested parties and he can fly off to whichever part of the world they are currently in to join his new team-mates.

As that sad song reaches its end, the funeral dirge of an Arsenal career, we look forward. What do Arsenal need to replace their central striker? Gilles Grimandi observed that Olivier Giroud was signed so that Arsenal were not backed into a corner this summer; that is probably true but it is not a statement of confidence that he is the replacement for the Dutchman. I believe he was signed to give more variety in attack, the much-vaunted Plan B if you like. Media stories link Arsenal with Llorente or Lewandowski; truth or dare, Arsenal. Dare.

Equally though eyes need to remain on the ball. Any deal with van Persie is not out of the blue, red or black and white. The club has known it is coming and have no doubt already been talking to other clubs about him. It is an unwelcome distraction and signals what ought to be a busy time for the negotiating team; the manager wants to avoid a last-ditch transfer tackle, people behind the scenes need to ensure that there is no repeat of last summer. Heads would have to roll if there is, slack work impedes squad preparations.

Still, at least the sun is shining.

’til Tomorrow.

 

Posted on July 21, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 227 Comments.

  1. riproarringred

    Good one YW

  2. Excellent post YW ….

  3. I still think you can get some great players late on in the transfer window. We have been notorious about doing our business late, sometimes requiring extensions to the deadline. I am not concerned about how long it takes just as long as we get quality.

    RvP’s “I will always be a gunner” quote is hilarious really, he thinks he will be afforded the same love when he comes back as Henry enjoys. Dream on son, especially if you turn out for shitty or manure.

  4. Spot on Yogi – i wish we could just get this sorted today but you know its gonna drag on for a bit yet. If he has refused to play on the tour (i doubt it but you never know) how poor is that for a captain of the team ….. again! Someone needs to have a word in the players ear about what being a captain of The Arsenal means, instead we get these guys pissing on the armband!

  5. As a Child I had journalistic- commentary ambitions, Huw Johns, David Coleman,Barry Davies and the former MOTD anchor man Sam Leech were many of my childhood heroes.

    I am always amazed by the level of your copy and ability to so be fresh,diverse, profound with your copy.

    I suppose the substance comes from the name. Long may you continue.

  6. I am thinking that TV5 will be the next captain, although personally I would promote Jack he could be our new Mr Arsenal!

    Any thoughts?

  7. drew10- Next season it should be one from Sagna, TV5 or Arteta. Too soon for Jack.

  8. I couldn’t have put it better myself, Yogi!

  9. Tony Adams took over the Captaincy at a younger age than Jack

  10. I agree with Yogi!

    posted this on yesterdays write up but I think it is in line.

    http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/kickoff/120720/woodcock-van-persie-has-let-himself-down-177074.

  11. Its gotta be Vermaelen as he has been vice-captain to date and has previous, captaining club and country – ably assisted by Arteta, as i like his attitude, application and team ethic.

  12. Can we be sure that TV5 will be here for the long haul? Or will his head also be turned by interest from elsewhere? I hope there are players out there who feel for the club.

  13. Nicely said. Except for one thing…While I would prefer a quick sale and reinvestment of the proceeds I don`t think it is paramount. (Based on the club’s track record, nor do I really have that much faith AW will be allowed to reinvest the full amount anyway.) That would clearly be best for AFC. However, last year Barca knew they had us over a barrel with Cesc and low bid us to the last day. Same with ManShitty and Na$ri. We are currently faced by a similarly nasty situation. As I said, I want the proceeds reinvested right away, but the opening bids have been a joke and no doubt none of the three teams in question will be interested in doing what`s best for us. The real mistake Wenger made last year was continuing to factor Cesc and Na$ri into his strategic plans for the season while he hoped they would stay. Personally, I`d let the negotiations take however long is necessary to get fair market value for our player and let him train away from the squad untilit happens. Play the men who are actually on the team and don’t let RvP anywhere near them. Then on opening day we play a stable team that have been training together and are committed to AFC and each other and we will avoid the turmoil that so damaged us last year.

  14. We need some one who is committed to be Captain. We have lost two in two years. It cannot go to someone who is refusing to renew (not wanted to be distracted by contract discussions) or wants their mummy..

    It is strange that a man who loves the club so much would make up his mind after one meeting. No effort to try to see if anything could change? I believe his mind was made up,, that is why he didn’t want to be “distracted” with any contract negotiations.

  15. Well put indeed Yogi

  16. Would we be happy to take a smaller transfer from that poor old lady Juventus rather than a bigger one from man city? I think i would….

  17. Drew – didnt Tommy V sign an extention to his contract recently? So hes probobly here for another 4 seasons……and Arteta will most likely finish his career with us so safe there too i reckon

  18. well said..

  19. as for the money being reinvested,
    it may well be, but i doubt it will be a striker like the media are claiming, like lorente..

    it was only the other day grimandi was taking about jiroo being signed up for such an occasion if rvp did leave..

  20. Yogi,
    lovely post. thanks

  21. Spot on!

  22. Pato plus cash for rvp

  23. DG TRV did sign an extension so as Vice Captain and experienced then he is the logical choice. I dunno, my heart just says Jack. Maybe Jack should be vice captain.

  24. JonJon – to me Grimandis statement read that Ollie was so we wouldnt be bent over a barrel having to sign a striker in desperation should RVP leave and not that he was signed t replace RVP

  25. i think Jack should concentrate on getting himself fit and ready first.

    personally i think vermaelen should be captain. i don’t want a repeat of what happened with kolo toure when someone else (gallas) was given the captaincy instead.

  26. I think Sagna should be looked at as far as being Captain. Remember his goal and attitude against the Spurs. He is class.

  27. Forget RVP, he’s on his way out.
    Let’s concentrate on a new Arsenal with Podolski, Giroud (and a few more) plus Wilshere and Diaby. Additionally, our signings from last summer are about to start their SECOND season in the EPL.
    I can’t help feeling that Arsenal are so much stronger now than for many a year and the new term will not be very old before we are saying that RVP’s departure was not such a bad thing.

  28. what this whole thing tells me is that players claim to love the club and the fans, but in the end, they only love themselves and money. and they don’t need fans, because they have got money.

  29. Great post, I guess it aptly captures the sentiments of the more supportive of Arsenal supporters. RVP is not a legend yet, he’s a one-and-a-half-season wonder. A great player who’s missed most of his career on the treatment table and is fast catching up on lost time. But will he ever recapture it? Someone elsewhere pointed out that strikers over 30 have a tendency not to maintain the same levels of output. The wondrous shape RVP was in last season has been put to severe test – he played in almost every Arsenal game, usually from start to finish, and then for the Netherlands, also in full. It’s good for him to miss out on the Asia Tour, as he’s probably nearing his expiry date at this tempo…

  30. arsenalandrew

    Great read, thanks.

  31. so i guess he is definitely going?

    all i can say is that i won’t thank him for the memories (for example those great goals such as the ones earlier in his career), because now i have to find other memories to replace those with.

    i am not even sure if i can look at those moments again. not after the way he stabbed us in the back.

  32. Well there’s always the option of holding him to his contract. Take the captaincy away from him. Gauge his attitude in training to see if it merits a starting place. Its then up to RVP himself to play well enough to stay in the team and to make sure come then end of the season hes still appealing enough to get his vaunted move to a club to win trophies

  33. Just gutted that our captain and a player I thought was Arsenal through and through has proved to be such a scumbag. To be in a position where any Tom, Dick or Harry (even Man Utd) can get involved in bidding for him is just unbelievable. I know there is not much honour in football nowadays, but RVP turned up at Arsenal as a brash youngseter who had discipline and attitude problems. AW patiently worked with him through thick and thin (and many injuries) to develop him into a player who appeared to be class both on and off the pitch. His actions so far this summer seem to suggest that he hasn’t really changed at all.

  34. Don’t think RvP Calculated on that he would be regarded as the next Nasri. He’s dead to me, from Legend to Zero.

  35. There are some silly numbers being bandied around at the moment (Man Utd bid £10m and the others bid £15m) and if any of them are true we should keep him to his contract. One more year of RVP at Arsenal or a derisoty amount of money for him now, let’s keep him. Good luck getting a lucrative deal with another club when you are one month away from 30 Mr Van Persie.

  36. Nice post,good morning

  37. good luck to Vela – http://www.examiner.com/article/vela-inherits-real-sociedad-s-legendary-no-11

    Why are Arsenal.com so slow with these things?

  38. Nice one YW.

    Robin who?

    Sell him to Stoke. See how many goals he scores there. I can but dream…

    At least the sun has got his hat on at last (about time, the lazy orange bastard). Summer’s here kids!

  39. What makes no sense to me is that Man City are still willing to buy these players when they clearly have attitude problems. Adebayor scored 30 goals in a season for us and then thought he had nailed a move to Inter Milan. He made noise all summer long about the fact that he was loyal to Arsenal, but if Inter did come in for him he would consider a move. When nothing happened he spent the next season sulking with his hands on his hips. Gone was the Adebayor who chased down every ball, replaced by a petulant child who huffed and puffed his way around the footbal pitch. And that display got him a move to Man City? Were they mad or just thick? He demonstrated serious attitude problems, but they bought him any way. And now he has threatened to sit out the remainder of his contract with City because Spurs can’t pay him the stupid amount of money that the Qataris do.
    When RVP signs up to his big money deal and then spends three years on the City treatment table I’ll be giggling my arse off.

  40. For reasons others outlined by others yesterday he’ll do us more damage at manU who really need him than anywhere else so I hope he doesn’t go there. Otherwise get an absolute fortune for him or keep him to his contract. He won’t be able to afford to sulk at his age, effectively being in the shop window.
    But then what the fuck do I know about running an international mega club like Arsenal? I struggle to sort out the water rates and most cost effective contract for my mobile.

  41. Dexter wrote some time ago about the joy of the DDay haggle. His other half wanted to flog Robin as soon as possible but I’m not sure if that is possible or desirable. Or in the club’s best interest? Why? See Dexter’s latest rant!
    As for last summer:

    Santos- tapped up in March.
    BFG- transfer ‘sorted’ the year before. Brought forward one year by injuries to others
    Arteta- …
    Podolski-…

    At least there is some Football. Wait.
    I forgot Pearce.
    How? How did he get the job? We know the answer. It’s a gr*tty answer. Not one for the faint hearted.

  42. Just Listened to the Woodcock interview and I agree with him, but not with George.

    Let’s make this clear, Robin is under contract at Arsenal until 30th June 2013. If he decides he does not want to sign a new contract (which he has) then he is able to talk to other clubs in January, not until then. If we want him to play with us whilst he is under contact he has to. Anything else is a breach of contract and we could sue him. If we decide to sell him now rather then let him walk away on a free agent deal next season we can, it’s up to us not him. Friends of mine have defended him, saying you can’t blame him when we show no ambition. That’s total crap, especially when you consider the signings we have already made this summer. Arsenal do sign players, we just don’t pay silly money for them. Maybe we have missed the odd player who we probably should have got for want of an extra £1m (Cahill, Smalling), but overall we have always looked to add to the team.
    If any of these stories about him refusing to go on tour are true then he is a disgrace and he deserves all the abuse he is bound to get when he turns up at the Emirates in another team’s shirt.

  43. pedantic george

    I most definitely couldn’t have put it better myself, Yogi!
    Arteta should be Skipper.TV is not a sure starter,he is.His attitude is exemplary and he is clearly well liked and articulate.

  44. Lovely piece YW, thank you.

    Sagna gets my vote for the captaincy.

  45. pedantic george

    Now are we sure Robin is leaving?
    It could be a ploy to get Theo and Alex better deals and force the management to buy world class players so we win trophies.He could still turn out to be the greatest captain the club has ever had!
    The pastries could have better fillings and a season ticket returned to pre decimalisation figures.
    Are you having that? Frank?

  46. i think sagna would be a good choice for vice captain. personally i think arteta is a leader on the pitch and doesnt need or crave the captain’s armband but would of course step in when needed.

  47. I don’t think TV should be captain as that makes him undroppable and there are times when he needs a little bench time when he forgets that he is a defender first. I expect he will get it as he is currently vice-captain and Arsene likes to have a CB as captain if possible (AW has already announced that he will be captain for the Asia tour). Sagna or Arteta would be my choice as I don’t see either of them going anywhere given the stage they are at in their careers.

  48. pedantic george | July 21, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Behave. Don’t poke the hornets nest!

  49. Well said, Passenal. On both posts.

  50. Sensational Arsenal

    Looks like Rosicky is going to miss the start of the season.

    http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-some-players-will-work-on-fitness

    Not sure about Diaby raring to go 😀 Maybe he should take it easy.

  51. From that link just up there –

    on Abou Diaby, who missed the end of the Premier League season…
    “He is fit, raring to go and will be on the tour. That is fantastic news for him and us.”

    never mind anyone who wants to leave this is what I call news

  52. Giroud and Podolski aren’t going on the tour either though.

    Is there still a chance Robin not -so reliant will be on the books the coming season? Or is it a foregone conclusion that he’s a goner?

  53. Anyone else notice Arsene looks different?

  54. So, de Lansbury (?) and Diaby could be selected for a midfield berth for a few games right at the start of the season. Some alternative options are: The Ox lad. Santos! Ramsey (resting after Olympics?)? Lucas? What! Arsene & Steve braved the rain to watch some brazilians. Can’t have been for nuffink. I know he’s not much of a CM, maybe, but he’s quick!

    George:
    “For me, Van Persie is one of the best strikers in the world, if not the best, and my desire is to keep him at the club….As for the rest I will do what is in the best interests of Arsenal Football Club.” AW.

  55. could we be going for cazorla just in case theo leaves? interestingly, theo IS going on the tour

  56. le boss “We are still looking to add one or two players but it depends also on how many go out because we have to respect the squad number,” Wenger told Arsenal Player.

    “It’s important to respect that so before we get players in we have to get some players out. That has not happened yet, the market is very quiet.

    “I cannot tell you anything concrete about the situation [regarding those who might leave] because if they are not finding clubs they will stay here and be players of the squad. At the moment I cannot give you any concrete or clear indication.”

    Heres a good breakdown of the squad, in line with what Wenger says on the squad rules –

    http://www.arsenalreport.com/editorial/homegrown-everything-you-need-to-know-about-2012-2013-squad-registration/

  57. pedantic george

    Finsbury.I know he said that.What is your point?

  58. Uh oh. Do I have to have a point? Arsene sounds like Dexter!

    In other news Blackburn Rovers have just signed Shebby Singh to help ‘sort them out’. Who? You ask. The ginormous football brain of the ESPN pundit who once said AW needed to spend some money to sign Melo. To make a statement of intent. Good times for Blackburn!

  59. Limestonegunner

    I agree with Passenal. My choice Arteta as he will be fit to start the season.

  60. JOSEPH KIHAMBA

    Let RVP go in good faith ,aim sure Mr. WENGER is going to organize the team more better, better to have the Team at heart than huge sums of money.

  61. pedantic george

    Hey LG,I said it first.
    Arteta Arteta Arteta.
    Pffft.Passenal.

  62. OT
    I’m playing at a 40th birthday party tonight and to save the host money on a DJ I’m playing music between sets. He said he likes ‘House’ music. Anyone have any idea what that is?

  63. pedantic george

    Is it a Jazz Long Playing record recently released by Hugh Laurie?Steww

  64. When will the whole “players leaving in the final year stop” ?
    RVP leaves this term, then Song will be willing to be let go next time around…..
    If only there was one man of character who wants to win..but only with Arsenal…

  65. steww, i think this is it – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO5oDScu4ps

  66. Christ knows George. they think because I’m on the wireless that I will be good at these sort of things. ‘House’ music? Is it different from Flat or Bungalow music?

  67. diese – seriously? A Madness tribute and a couple of hours of that? Better put St John’s ambulance on standby.

  68. Your piece is on the money, YW….but painful.

    Wavey, u almost had me shedding one..
    “Just gutted that our captain and a player I thought was Arsenal through and through has proved to be such a scumbag. To be in a position where any Tom, Dick or Harry (even Man Utd) can get involved in bidding for him is just unbelievable”.

    Money can’t buy you love, Robin.
    A life lesson cometh your way….so unnecessary..

    AA wasn’t mentioned as staying behind to get fit..his agent’s words are pretty damning too………George, what are “they” insinuating?
    To lose him as well will break me..for at least 24 hrs.
    This completely forces a rethink on the great AM debate…

    Lansbury looks to be done as well.
    Gutted for him…

    it takes a lot to be a gooner these days…

    RASERS!

  69. I’m more of a Grime man myself.

  70. ‘Grime’? Bloody hell. Just when I get a handle on what R & B is they go and change what it means and now I have to learn Grime?

  71. pedantic george

    Aman,
    Now are we sure Andrei is leaving?
    It could be a ploy to get Theo and Alex better deals and force the management to buy world class players so we win trophies.He could still turn out to be the greatest Russian captain the club has ever had!
    The pastries could have better fillings(he like a pie you know) and a season ticket returned to pre decimalisation figures.
    Are you having that?

  72. “..we have to sell before we buy”…..
    anyone who “knows” you knew that AW…
    but well done for bringing in Poldi & OG ahead of time.

    now we await..the markets for:

    Bendtner
    Robin?
    Squilly
    AA?
    Chamakh
    Park?
    Fabianski
    Mannone
    Eastmond
    Watt

    “step right up…..10 for auction, any takers….let’s get your starting bids?”

  73. pedantic george

    Aman.I have just been told Rosicky is out of contention for the first month or so ,Jack also.Surely this means Andrei will be given a go in his best position. Doesn’t it?
    He cant go before January FFS .Give me strength.

  74. hmm arshavin isnt in the 24men squad. and he isnt mentioned when wenger talked about the players not going.

  75. “Lansbury looks to be done as well.
    Gutted for him…”

    Aman, he was all set to go on tour, but he injured himself and has been replaced by Eisfeld. His misfortune may be his undoing if this was last chance saloon for him.

  76. PG,
    right now, I can’t make any sense of it all….
    i got tears in my eyes….
    …….
    ……

  77. pg: “He cant go before January FFS .Give me strength.
    ….if some bastard billionaire flashes mega moolah, he’ll be gone pg..poof!….just like that!
    i need some strength here too.

    Pass,
    “he was all set to go on tour, but he injured himself and has been replaced by Eisfeld. His misfortune may be his undoing if this was last chance saloon for him”.

    thanks Passenal, …explains it.

  78. Bendtner
    Robin?
    Squilly
    AA?
    Chamakh
    Park?
    Fabianski
    Mannone
    Eastmond
    Watt
    Lansbury?

  79. I just read on twitter that if we sell RVP we will be relegated. I assume Chris Morris has taken over Twitter.

  80. pedantic george

    Steww I hope it was a bookie who said that .I will skint him

  81. Get with the programme steww, we are a ‘one man team’ after all and if that one man leaves… 🙂 Because of course as well as scoring all those goals, he assisted them as well!

  82. pedantic george

    There is no mention of Arshavin on .Com
    He does not travel and is not injured or late back.Not a fucking word .Do they understand what this is doing to me?

  83. we are a one-man team. that one man is arsene wenger.

  84. Brilliant obersvation Steww.

  85. Top marks for this post Yogi. Clarity!

    Good morning or day to all.

    The signings or Arteta, Santo, Per, Gervinho, Podolski, and OG have restored my confidence for future seasons.

    The team exhibited an unbalance of experience for the past few seasons and the manager has made adjustments to rectify.

    Any scenario is still in play for where RvP may find himself. It is positive to see the number of big clubs interested. No team is going to show all their hand initially, so these early bids are only part of posturing.

    I feel proud to be an Arsenal supporter.

  86. Ode to RVP:
    “And now, the end is here
    And so I face the final curtain ”
    Unfortunately the rest of the song is wasted on you.
    The king is dead. Long live the king.

    Spot on YW.

  87. Anyone recommend a good lay by between Hayling Island and Warminster? I daresn’t drive too far on my medication and it’s a late finish tonight. I require toilets, peace and quiet and no rapists/muggers. Nice view when I wake up too please.
    God I love ACLF, any question football or otherwise, guaranteed an answer.

  88. soon to be…available jersey numbers:
    1, 9, 10, 18, 21, 22, 23, 24, 29, 30, 32…..36, 38, 40, 53, 55, .

    heard OG’s got the #12…good for him

    (sigh!)

  89. Steww @11.48am

    Flat music will probably be OK. A musical ear tuned to House music isn’t all that likely to notice.

  90. Merlot – I’ve decided to say fuck it. They’ll get what I give them. You wouldn’t ask an Arsenal footballer to work with Tony Pulis would you? – people need to stick to what they know.

  91. Let’s see them dance their silly modern dance to Ivor Cutler

  92. Re-post: {Damnit.. I forgot to put my full name.. Blame it on the rum!!}

    Something had to give.. eh Yogi?? I feel ya mutha. One of your best blogs ever.

    rvp {I know- caps lock off}.. I don’t wish you bad, I don’t you wish you well, just GO.. Pronto.. and be quick about it.. Adieu!!

    And Arteta for President.. oops… ahem.. I mean Capitan!!

  93. For me TV is the obvious choice as captain of the team now. I understand he is not exempt from the odd mistake and likes to get forward to score a little more than perhaps he should but truth be told he along with Kos are now our best defenders. If we have a starting 4 cemented at this time at the back it would be Sagna, Kos, TV and Gibbs/Santos.

  94. Anyone have the latest on Wilshere?

  95. Great to see Aneke, Bartley, Afobe, Eisfeld, Eastmond and Yennaris is the travelling group. I read a comment recently eslewhere, that alluded to how Arsenal were in fact not progressing young players from the reserves… wish I could have shown them this list!

  96. pedantic george

    Miami

    on Jack Wilshere (ankle)….
    “It is impossible to set a concrete deadline at the moment. But it is all OK. He is as quick as we expected him to be. His ankle is good and his knee is good. There is no set-back. It difficult to say ‘it will be this week in September or October’ when he is back in training. He has been out for a year and I don’t want to put any pressure on him.”

  97. I know it is a dream given recent seasons, but wouldn’t it be grand to not have a key player injured for an extended period of time this coming season. No broken legs, ankles or ligament damage!

  98. hmmm…. no Lansbury in the touring side!! I thought he looked bright in his return to the Arsenal shirt.

  99. pedantic george

    Miami ,see Passenal’s post @12.07

  100. Thanks PG… poor sod

  101. I can dig what you are saying but let’s remember an athletes career is short compared to ours in the work force. These cats work hard to hon their talents. God gives the talent but these men have to work at it. A blown knee or achilles heel can ruin their career in flash of a eye. in the end these men have to take care of their families, Does this piss me off? Hell yes it does! I’ve been there and I know what it is like to loss evwerything on a freak play. Money makes the world go round. How long is the average futebol players life on the pitch. I would say maybe three years to five years at the top level. That’s it! Compare this with the rest of your life. RVP was great while he wore the Arsenal Kit. Will he go down as one of the greatest ever? No great players do it year in and year out. The days of one player spending there entire life at one club is gone forever. This train has left the station. This is the modern sports world. I am sixty. if you get a chance check out my geemans blog..

  102. ..forgot even Theo might be going…
    add the #14 to available jersey numbers

  103. wow, just read on the Swiss Ramble that Arsenal basically leave 30 mill a season on the table with regards to our shirt deals with the name sponsor and shirt manufacturer… 5.5 and 8 mill per season respectly, compared to someone like Liverpool 20 & 25 mill for like sponsors! Deals are up for review 2014… that alone is a world class player transfer

  104. off to purchase a handgun, have a great day!

  105. So above 100k per week is enough to take care of ones family. The foolishness we try to justify is sickening. He will make More in one month than most make in a lifetime. Stop with this short career nonsense, please.

  106. True geeman.
    I think the ‘real’ fans are having a tough time coping with the perceived loyalty issue. I never bought his ‘Arsenal forever’ quotes or his badge kissing. I wish him well, but no goals against us!! I really don’t fret his departure because he is an injury prone lad and has overplayed himself the last year. I suspect we’ll miss him about as much as we miss Hleb. He’ll decline and miss many games from injury. He had a career season the year he needed one – at age 29 and in the last year of his contract. Can he sustain that again. I suspect not. Arsene is ruthless with players when they turn 30. Strikers more than defenders. He may end up being a trivia question 5 years from now. Him leaving, becoming injury prone, giving us transfer funds to invest in a future star and not saddling us with a huge contract may be the best thing for us – we won’t know that for a while. Yes, it hurts a bit, We feel rejected or feel that something is being taken away from us but the man should have the same rights as you and me. Let him chase money or glory or whatever he thinks he needs.
    Keep your heads up Arsenal fans – this could be the best things that happens to the club since Anelka was sold.

  107. You wonder how footballers 10 years ago “took care of their families”, since making less than 200k week is not sufficient. Poor RVP.

    Question is, how do teachers even survive?

  108. pedantic george

    And stop with the poor commercial deals shit also.I f you don’t know why that is by now you have no place on ACLF.Jeez do people never read the comments?

  109. geeman,
    “The days of one player spending there entire life at one club is gone forever. This train has left the station”

    sorry, I disagree.
    once a precedent is set, it has eternal life.
    there will always be exceptions.
    life goes in cycles.

    @60..u should know better than to let cynicism deflate a healthy concept.

    presently still 2 @ their stations: Giggs, Terry, Scholes…

  110. Paul’N – the short career timeline is still true. I don’t begrudge them for the wages they make. They have skills we don’t have. They train tirelessly and many have to make sacrifices. Men like Messi had to leave their family and friends to live in a different continent while in their early teens. If you think they are overpaid don’t forget there s nothing to stop you from entering the market.

  111. oh and money doesn’t make the world go round…….(tired ass cliche).
    ….hetero-sexual activity does!

  112. Paul-N – when WE have a bad day at the office does the whole world know? – do all the blogs worldwide start mentioning how lazy, unengaged, pathetic and useless we are? Ok maybe that ‘s George’s average day, but not ours.
    That’s got to be worth at least 50 pounds a week premium. I’m sure I could come up with a few more. Getting stares at every red right in your car. Having to sign autographs when you are trying to go the the restaurant’s loo and take a dump. That’s worth 10 pounds a week. It adds up!

  113. “off to purchase a handgun, have a great day!” – MiamiArsenal

    Ah yes, Saturday in Miami. 😉

  114. Philmar, so what? They choose to play football. Other people with different skills sets work much harder and get much less.

    Short career In which they are paid very well. No need to justify the greed. A player like RVP will also make money in other ways.

  115. pls temper the BS….

    EVERYBODY on Earth makes sacrifices!
    the short career timeline is true but it is rendered even shorter if you are a sell-out.
    who really trusts a snake?

    without the love of fans, your “PR-level” is pretty low and doesn’t help IF you choose to remain in fooball.

    would Vieira have a job @ Shitty if he had crept off to join Man Utd in 2004/5?
    I think NOT!

    FAN-Love extends your career “forever”…re: Maradona.
    People speaking highly of you supercedes everything else and is the highest validation of your positive effect on their lives!

    only slaves to money overrate money!

    RASERS!

  116. maybe Robin’s agent asked him to add the grey highlights to his hair to show how ‘worried’ he is about not winning trophies

  117. Philmar- They are more than compensated for any “sacrifices” they make.

  118. corr: still presently @ their stations: Giggs, Terry, Scholes…

  119. Philmar, they can make all they can, I am not drinking the “family” and “short career” Kool aid. If a players takes care of their money they are set, they dont need 200k. RVP is on the up, he got paid when he wasnt even playing. Could the normal working man get that, for so long?

  120. “Philmar, so what? They choose to play football. Other people with different skills sets work much harder and get much less.”

    Sure, I see your point. I’m not sure what skills you have but none of mine could entice thousands to watch me at 100 pounds a pop or entice a few million people to watch me on television. If I DID have a skill that made millions want to watch me on television I’d be trying to capitalize on it to make that much money.

  121. @Philmar — I quite agree. People with the skills of an rvp or Messi sell tickets and are directly responsible for attracting fans to the game. I do not begrudge them their share of the profits they are dirtectly responsible for. I just wish I had a skillset that society as a whole valued as highly. 😉

  122. “he got paid when he wasnt even playing. Could the normal working man get that, for so long? ”

    I have long term disability benefits at work.
    Not that I am suggesting I am normal…

  123. Although I will add the fact that the short career argument is less an issue for the EPL superstars than it is for the journeyman Div 1 or 2 players who make a fraction of the silly wages we are talking about here.

  124. Philmar, what does people watching have to do with short careers and them having to take of their families?

    They can run for more money if they want to, my point is that above 100k is good money for a footballer. For us to justify the greed is sickening.

  125. Footballers can go after loads of money if they want, thats human nature. But don’t give me excuses like short carrers, family to look out for, sacrifices. In their short carrers they earn what normal people can only dream of. What sacrifices? They are working a job they are good at, one they love, how many people can say that? Normal people make more sacrifices.
    If they want shit loads of money, fine. But lets call it what it is, greed, rather than justify this.

  126. “I just wish I had a skillset that society as a whole valued as highly. ”

    Just my luck people don’t want to pay good money to watch me watch football on TV and bang away on a keyboard on football blogs. What’s wrong with our society?!

  127. Sahil – perhaps you should try out for a team since the pay is so high and the sacrifices are so minimal.

  128. And you’d only have to do it for 2 years

  129. summers off….

  130. Birds galore…

  131. Fuck me. Maybe you should try to run a footaball club, become a CEO before complaining about the wage bill, or any other functioning of the club.

  132. *football

  133. Trust me, i HATE sounding like a free market apologist but these guys generate obscene amounts of money. So their situation isn’t like you or me. They aren’t normal so why compare them to the normal?

    When the old lady next door to me overflows her shitter she has 100 plumbers to choose from
    But when I want to watch someone shank a football off their heel and miss a gaping huge net
    There’s only ONE Robin van Persie
    There’s only ONE Robin van Persie
    There’s only ONE Robin van Persie

  134. And if they ever have a World Toilet Snaking Championship and the countries send their best plumbers and the event generates millions of pounds in sponsorship deals, gate fees and TV rights sell offs then I’d understand one of those plumbers earning millions.
    But I don’t think our society is there…yet.

  135. ” *football ”

    Thanks for the clarification. Phew, I didn’t see any openings on workopolis for ‘footaball’ 😉

  136. Philmar- I did say that if they want to earn shit loads of money, fine thats human nature. But it is also greed. Whats wrong with that?
    A footballer on 100k a week on a four year deal earns 20.8 million. Thats enough for any sacrifices, or for any family.
    If they want more fine, why make excuses, it’s greed.

  137. Borehamwood 1 Arsenal XI 0 , ex Arsenal player Riza scores from a header.

  138. And if they are generating such an obscene amount of money for their clubs to deserve these wages, how come most of the clubs are in debt.

  139. …or do you not care about the debt Philmar?

  140. Philmar @ 2:16 pm

    “We feel rejected or feel that something is being taken away from us but the man should have the same rights as you and me. Let him chase money or glory or whatever he thinks he needs.
    Keep your heads up Arsenal fans – this could be the best things that happens to the club since Anelka was sold.”

    Yes, as supporters our bias towards Arsenal effects our judgement. Good points but its only speculation that injuries will follow the balance of his career. I don’t believe he’s has reached his potential; RvP certainly maximized with his supporting cast.

    With regards to your last sentence (above)……

    feel the same way, ‘could be “one of” the best things that happens to the club.

    Seems like the entertainment industry commands these outrageous salaries. Does anyone criticize/scrutinize actor/actresses or musical artists their earnings? while their careers extend far beyond the window of those in most sports.

    Most of us would pursue the chance to work at better pay/benefits. Could be down to an individual decision affected by how the player was brought up or influenced by those he trusts.

    Both parties need to move on.

  141. or do you just accept “heroes” @ any cost?

  142. I will never complain about any striker we have EVER because bebe might be the worst in all of europe

  143. Great post yogi

    Sad day but I think all of us probably expected this. When we spent the money for Podolski and Giroud it was likely that we were going to have to sell to balance the books and RVP is the only asset we had that could bring in enough money. Arsene and Ivan knew this coming and props for to them for dealing with replacements ahead of time. Hopefully we will sell him to Italy rather England but I don’t think we can realistically compete with the Manc clubs for 2-3 seasons so selling him to one of the them does not really alter our ability to keep our CL spot and the blue mancs will probably give us the best price. That said I still hope we are willing to send him to Italy unless the difference in the offers are huge. It would be worth it to send him out of country even if it cost us a couple of million.

  144. pedantic george

    These stars that generate the profits.Do the chip in when the club loses £150 million every year?
    A club that loses money is not making profit to be shared .Is it?
    Or was my economics A level a total waste of time?

  145. Arsession @3:43- Big earning stars usually leave their producers with a profit through their films. Footballers however seldom leave their clubs with a profit.

  146. pedantic george

    Oh fuck off Bill.
    RVP is not being sold to balance the fucking books. Give it a rest will you.
    Stay out of the Sun or something.Because of late your post are nonsense.

  147. Jiroo is a top forward i have to say,
    watch out for his over head kick next season

    he can play too, hes not just a big lump..amazing first touch

    i must admit, i grew curious, so ive spent the last 4 hours you tubing him..

    wow

    i think hes going to bang them in for us..

  148. Call RVP greedy if you like but the best entertainers and sports figures all make outrageous amounts of money. Movie actors, musicians all make more money in a month then the average person makes in their life. Of course he does not need more then 100,000/week but just like any of us if he can get more then why not. I am convinced if we would have come up with an offer that was somewhere in the “ballpark of other offers that he would have stayed. I am sure the trophy issue is also important to him and reastically this group of players is probably a couple of years from challengingnthe manc clubs but i suspect that issue is distant second Some of us wont admit it but 99% of us would do the same thing he is doing. The club is run like a business and has always looked out for its best interest when dealing with players contracts. Its disingenuous for us to expect a player to think differently. I just wish he would come out and tell the truth.

  149. Rvp was offered a contract which he refused, AW has said today on .com that he wants to keep him. He is not being sold to balance the books Bill.

  150. Borehamwood 1 Arsenal 1. Sanchez Watt from the penalty spot.

  151. Rvp’s not being sold to balance any books.

  152. Another penalty Akpom scores, Arsenal two up.

  153. These wordpress blogging rules piss me off.

  154. wow if only we had as many penalties last season.

  155. well JJ, that giroud could play was never in doubt. scored quite a few nice goals and laid off a few nice assists last season. too bad he isnt taking no9. 9iroud would really catch on.

  156. Dont forget the two penalties in one game! FA Cup at Home vs. VIlla. I was amazed, Evil was worried that Arsenal wouldn’t get another pen afterwards. He was right!
    (Haven’t checked, but I think so).

  157. RvP’s not greedy, he’s just a sell-out.

  158. fins i think evil was right.

  159. Three up now. Cracking goal from Olsson. Nice chip over keeper, Carlos Vela like.

  160. Harry Flowers

    I must be in that magic 1% Bill. Then again I always knew I was (a) special (case).

    Hey-ho. The plight of yer average Premiership footballer is indeed a tragic one. Is it not. One wonders what Dickens would have made of the naked exploitation and enforced hardship that these young guys have to face. Imagine having to scrape a living in the capital, and feed your family and put a roof over their heads on under 150k a week. It’s a fucking disgrace. And their career is a short one remember. They need all the multi-millions they can amass in that short space of time. I for one, pity the poor hard done by bastards. Never mind the starving children in the Yemen these guys are the truly deserving ones. They have special skills remember. And in certain cases, special needs.

    C’mon Arsenal!!

  161. Arshavin, Bendtner, Park, Squillaci and Lansbury are not in the squad or mentioned as ‘working on their fitness’ – would that suggest we are expecting them to depart either on loan or permanently in the next week or so?

  162. ahh Park is gone to the olympics aint he…

  163. Philmar makes some excellent points.

    BUT this idea that superstars generate huge sums is a bit of a fallacy really. If it wasnt for the huge sum Sky pays we’d be seeing a lot of clubs goin to the wall. As it is most are up to their necks in debt, some have sugar daddies, obviously distorting the ‘real’ economics of the sport and club finances.

    Its no wonder we as fans are almost as obsessed with shirt sponsorship deals and merchandising, global TV rights etc as we are with how our team does on the pitch.

    The bubble will burst, unless this ridiculous upward arc of wage increases is halted, somehow.

    We’ve just seen AC Milan sell their most marketable assets to PSG FFS! Things aint right.

    I suggest people either realise this and stop making stupid posts about the club’s finances when they havent got a clue, or simply just enjoy what we have, while it lasts.

  164. Harry Flowers; *doffs cap* Nice one man.

    In the 1960s the clubs and chairmen treated players like serfs, they had all the aces. In an attempt to rectify matters, trailblazers like Jimmy “football isnt it” Hill fought to get players better working conditions and pay.

    However, the power is once again too much in one parties hands. And no, we shouldnt have to come up with wages akin to clubs that don’t need to balance the books. Why is that such a hard concept for some to get to grips with?

  165. Aman;

    RvP just thinks he is deserving of £200k a week+ and guaranteed trophies. never mind the fact his many long ass absences meant our trophy chances dwindled. Never mind the faith that the boss kept in him. These greedy arrogant narcisistic multi millionaires want their cake and eat it.

    Is that too much to ask?

  166. JJ;

    I am also really excited about the prosepct of seeing what OG can do, I have been well impressed when ever I have seen him. Think he will be immense.

  167. Dex,
    i think he’s in pain…selling out on your team is very hard you know…
    i mean who likes to lie to his children?

  168. His wife is the one we should have made captain. She’s got bigger balls than her husband.

  169. Harry Flowers, Brilliant!

    I am going to send some money to “the RVP fund for poor multi millionaires”.

  170. Harryflowers @ 4:48

    “I must be in that magic 1% Bill. Then again I always knew I was (a) special (case)”

    Perhaps that’s true. I would be great if you were given the opportunity to have to make that decision.

  171. Nicky @ 9:40 am,

    Well put Sir. I agree.

  172. Bill- I would love to take that decision.

  173. Be patient, YW….

  174. Sahil.

    Me too!!!

  175. shocking how people can look at a business that loses 150 mil and then conclude that what they are doing is the way Arsenal need to go, you know… pay our stars the “going rate”. What kind of economics is that.

    We should decry this every day of the week, not want Arsenal to follow suit.

  176. And people even justify the “going rate” Paul-N.

  177. You have to pay the ‘going rate’ to a degree, and Arsenal will certainly expect the ‘going rate’ to be paid for the latest cunt. The only way to reduce the going rate is do the Little Mancs and PSG in. Get the fuckers. That’s the only way

  178. Don’t forget Chelsea Frank, the original fuckers.

  179. Yes I think that we should get Chavski, too, but they are fast becoming small fry compared to the two clubs currently owned by countries. I wonder whether the wind is beginning to change in terms of public opinion in terms of the Little Mancs. Certainly when the tapping up of the latest cunt comes out they will be on the road to becoming pariahs.

  180. if we do sell all 11 on me list, we just might have room for 4 or 5 new faces….
    a GK, DM, AM, CF, MF.

    talk about an overhaul….wow.

  181. Dexter @ 4:54pm
    “The bubble will burst, unless this ridiculous upward arc of wage increases is halted, somehow.
    “I suggest people either realise this and stop making stupid posts about the club’s finances when they havent got a clue, or simply just enjoy what we have, while it lasts.”

    Agreed. Except Bill @ 3:55pm, as is his custom, was deliberately twisting reality for his own ends when he states:
    “When we spent the money for Podolski and Giroud it was likely that we were going to have to sell to balance the books and RVP is the only asset we had that could bring in enough money.”

    Didn’t Wenger and Gazidis make it clear from the end of the season he would do everything to re-sign RVP?
    The very week they restated their intentions wasn’t it RVP who used his previously dormant website to issue that notorious statement?

    You know what I am particularly proud of? That the club recognized from early the possibility that RVP would not resign and, as Grimandi disclosed, signed Giroud as insurance to prevent being backed in a corner? Now that is a show of financial commitment
    doing what Bill always panders to, i.e. spending some “fuckin money” as insurance against the loss of a valuable striker.

  182. Havent read al the posts , what about SUPER YOSSI , i thought he was fantastic last year for arsenal he had to bide his timeTto get on the pitch but every game he did he was amazing . I hear he has went back to chelsea and they dont want him he is the sort of player we want he is so comitted and a proper professional .
    Also last year Clint dempsey we were being courted with him now that all seems to have dried up .
    THESE ARE THE PLAYERS WE NEED ,, whats your views

  183. @Paul
    Full agreement. I wonder if the same people that expect Arsenal to “pay the rate” no matter if it means putting the club into debt would have taken a similar attitude to bank speculation. Telling their clerk that they think it’s great if the bank speculates a bit with their money and makes some duff investments.

  184. by my highly optimistic math..we could make 100m pounds off the sale of all ELEVEN.
    a HUNDRED MILLION POUNDS!
    now wouldn’t it be tasty if we spent it all on FIVE gladiators?
    …hmm

    Bill?
    Philmar?

  185. I highly doubt that Aman. In fact i would say for some on that list the situation will probobly be out on loan with a view to move unless we drop the asking price to compensate for their wage expectations. Im thinking of Bendtner, Chamakh and Squilly here. All on wages the selling clubs might not be willing to pay on top of a big transfer fee. Plus if they know we are selling then they will use that as the excuse to actually drive the price down.

  186. Id probobly say about half your estimate Aman…..
    But still enough for a few players on the level of Poldi and Ollie. Players like Ganso, Affaley, Sahin, Corzola

    Bendtner – 6 mil?
    Robin? – depends on who buys but say 20 mil
    Squilly – nominal fee or none
    AA? – half what we paid, say 7-8 mil
    Chamakh – 4-5 mil
    Park? – money back – 2.5
    Fabianski – 2 mil
    Mannone – 1 mil
    Eastmond and Watt – 1 mil combined will sell on clauses

  187. While I criticize Bill’s voodoo economics that doesn’t mean I am unaware that AFC is a capitalist enterprise whose shareholders hope to profit from this enterprise as did the following list of rogues (as quoted from 7amkickoff.com):

    David Dein bought 16% of Arsenal in 1983 for £300000 and sold his last tranche (14%) to Alisher Usmanov for £75m in 2007. At one point, Dein held 41% of Arsenal’s stock and between his first purchase and his last sale, he made millions more off selling various portions of what he had to other investors.

    Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith married into an Arsenal family with the Bracewell-Smith’s history at the club as charimen and board members dating back to 1948. She sold her shares to Kroenke Sports Enterprises (KSE) for more than £115m.

    Danny Fizsman was a friend of David Dein and bought his first set of shares in Arsenal back in 1991. Like Dein, his holdings fluctuated from 8% to 24% and before he sold his final tranche to KSE for £117m he had already made tens of millions from sales of his stock.

  188. Deise,
    u forgot Theo…how much?

  189. “by my highly optimistic math..we could make 100m pounds off the sale of all ELEVEN.
    a HUNDRED MILLION POUNDS!
    now wouldn’t it be tasty if we spent it all on FIVE gladiators?”

    Not a chance. I’ve said it before and been raked over the coals for it but club policy was to grant large wages to players even before they were established stars. That’s why we can’t sell our deadwood extra parts like Bendtner. Most teams would snap at a chance for a young starting international striker but nobody’s pining for him. Arsenal is the world’s 10th biggest sports franchise (not just football franchise – Forbes). Arsenal wages are relatively high to clubs outside of Bayern, Milans, Juve, Malaga, Real, Barca, Russian club with long name, PSG and the Mancs and Chavs. Many a team would want Denilson, Bendtner, Arshavin, Park, Squilacci (maybe), Chamakh and Robin but the pool of clubs that can afford their wages is not very large.
    There’s no doubt in my mind Wenger would love to move them and reinvest their transfer. So would I. But the market of teams that can afford their wages and pay a transfer fees is small. People called me a fool and that Bendtner would sell easily for 9 million+.

    I think we’ll see these guys sold cheaper than most here expect or loaned out again like Denilson. Denilson is never coming back and I think the team would have sold him if any offer had been made. The best they could get was a loan and hopefully his salary of the books. But he’s a good decent player. The only reason he couldn’t be sold must be his salary.
    Arshavin? I really don’t know where he’s going. Probably back to Russia for half or less of what we paid. Not a big deal because he is older (31) than he was when we bought him. He saved our season when he arrived and his transfer fee was recouped in the Champion’s League money he helped guarantee. He needs to go where he is happy and it aint here.

    I’d be happy if we get 40 million for them. I’d buy 2 gladiators – an attacking MF and a creative MF.

  190. 50m quid’s still some good cash and if TW chooses to keep his #14…
    Ganso, Affaley, Sahin, Corzola is not a bad combo to bring in though I’m not an Affelay fan.

    If we made up to 75m, I’d do
    M’Villa or Paulinho,
    Ganso or Sahin,
    Carzola or Moses,
    exp.2nd GK (Gordon perhaps)
    and I’d take a chance on crocked Giuseppe Rossi, who’s expected to be fit by Feb 2013.

    Now that would be a squad that’d take on anybody!

  191. Philmar,
    an attacking MF and a creative MF sound like the same position…did u mean a DM & a creative AM?

  192. I am going to watch NY Red Bulls v Tottenham next week.
    I thought it interesting that the following is highlighted when buying tickets

    “Sections 101, 102, and 133 are designated Red Bulls supporters’ sections. Fans who sit in these sections typically stand, sing, chant, and enthusiastically and loudly support the Red Bulls throughout the game. Please contact a Red Bulls representative at 877.RBSOCCER (1.877.727.6223) TTY/Hearing Impaired – 973.482.9060 if you are considering sitting in or near these sections”.

    Seems odd to me that in a society like the USA they can allow home fans to organise themselves into an effective supporting unit. It’s also a fact that these guys actually do what it says: so, listen-up Red Action!

  193. “However, the power is once again too much in one parties hands. And no, we shouldnt have to come up with wages akin to clubs that don’t need to balance the books. Why is that such a hard concept for some to get to grips with?”

    Well who is to blame? The players for accepting the ridiculous wages the financial dopers are offering? I can’t blame the players for accepting obscene wages. IMHO the problem is the owners. The financial dopers and irresponsible owners that risk their clubs doing a Leeds or Rangers.
    Arsenal are doing things prudently – many others aren’t. I don’t know who is making decisions at Liverpool and Sunderland for example but I can not blame any player who accepts ridiculous wages. if owners are bankrupting their teams then they are to blame.
    The players are not greedy for accepting what is offered to them (they don’t put a gun next to the owners’ heads).

    If you don’t like the wages the players are earning then go watch your sons and grandsons play…or the Arsenal ladies. The game has changed, either you change with it or move on and go to the pub and see a musical act. But it can’t be an international hit recording musician because they earn obscene amounts of money just for singing or strumming a guitar. And try not to think about how much movie stars or TV personalities/actors earn because without TV, music, sport or the movies then there’s fuck little else to do that isn’t the product of overpaid greedy bastards. Forget greedy players, movie stars, singers and go hug the missus and walk the dog.

    Personally I don’t care what RvP or other entertainers earn – as long as they entertain me then I’m happy

  194. “Philmar, an attacking MF and a creative MF sound like the same position…did u mean a DM & a creative AM? ”

    I most certainly did.

  195. Creative and attacking MF sound like they are the same but I think you pay a premium for a creative MF over an attacking MF. You pay a bit more for the genius. 😉

  196. Notoverthehill

    Yogi, you made me cry! How could you be so cruel!

    PG, Aman, and ALL those who know a REAL footballer.

    Mrs Julia Arshavin is expecting an addition to the family! At a guess on the timing by Mr Andrey Arshavin, perhaps July is the third month of the onset of ….. do I really have to explain this?

  197. “And if they are generating such an obscene amount of money for their clubs to deserve these wages, how come most of the clubs are in debt.”

    Because their owners/boards are not fiscally responsible like the Arsenal. UEFA, FIFA and the FAs all are in on the gravy train. Some of the clubs are in debt because they are perpetuating and exacerbating the high wage scale . They need to learn how to live within their means. The Bundesliga seems to be the only sane league left. But that isn’t the fault of the players. They accept the wages offered to them.

  198. #oh i forgot to add M’Vila to that list as i reckon le boss is keen to get him signed up

  199. “Certainly when the tapping up of the latest cunt comes out they will be on the road to becoming pariahs.”

    If we can prove the tapping up, we’d get more than the going rate, which is the least we would deserve under the circumstances!

  200. JonJon | July 21, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    Olivier Giroud Season 2011/12 Played 38, Scored 21, Assisted 12

    That is 33 goals he was involved with in 38 games!

    I have a very good feeling about him. I also like that he turned down chelski’s millions to join us for footballing reasons. Maybe there is still some decency left in football?

  201. Such hypocrisy all around. While the owners (past and new) continue to make huge amounts of profits, our best players who have kept the club in the CL have not been paid the wages that players like them are earning at other clubs. World class players deserve world class salaries. Just as our manager is getting one. It’s a company that we’ve all been supporting and not a club anymore. Instead people like RVP have been defamed because their ‘heads have been turned’. I am not surprised why their heads have been turned. No trophies, no ambitions, selling best players right and left. The last time we really competed for a trophy was 2008. Arsenal F.C has been turned into a profit making machine under the laughable excuse of ‘we’re built a stadium’. Fucking move on. The club didn’t spend when it needed more depth in the squad in recent years on the one hand; on the other they’ve sold most of their best players. Why should the players take a cut in their salaries? So that Stan can take the profits home or that the share prices can rise enough so the last owners can sell their shares? We’ve all been made a fool. It’s time people at ACLF stop toeing the media line and start calling a spade a spade. Arsenal F.C is interested in profits and nothing more than that any more. They should pay the best players in the team competitive salaries, which I doubt they’re doing.

  202. Ateeb

    SHUT THE FUCK UP

    i am sick of you and your ilk. FUCK OFF.

  203. So, Ateeb, it is the class struggle at work? Oppressed footballers battling the owners for a living wage? With the media on the side of the owners and the lemmings at ACLF blinded by the ideology of the ruling classes.
    Unfortunately your analysis breaks down at several levels. I find it hard to get behind the “oppressed” Robin Van Persie in the vanguard to see which player can become the biggest multi-millionaire?

    But I take your point; there is a surplus being generated in football that is going into the pockets of a minority at the top of the food chain. I suspect the biggest earners are the banksters and hedge funds who are siphoning millions of dollars in interest from clubs who have put themselves in debt to pay the lavish salaries of star players. These debt-happy owners (supported by an entire body of conventional opinion) feel this will enhance the competitive value of their respective clubs and making them more money eventually. Unfortunately, from all reports very few owners are making money based on leveraging. Among the few who have made money are the past owners of AFC who avoided going into debt to finance huge transfers and lavish salaries . They appropriated the surplus generated by the club via capital gains when they sold their shares to Mr Kroenke. Based on your paradigm of the “greedy owner” it would seem Mr Van Persie wants a greater share of the surplus now rather than later.

    So where does it leave us the feckless club supporter whose hard earned money is appropriated by the football industry in infinite number of ways; cable-satellite tv subscription; high priced tickets; merchandising etc. How do we recapture our part of the surplus?

    Unlike you Ateeb, I don’t see a practical alternative at AFC, given the tight hold of English capitalism on the current ownership model in the EPL. Railing against the greedy owners is sure to earn you the populist support of some but will do very little to change ownership or alter policy significantly. Because the owners of AFC know what has worked for them.

    As I suggested sometime before, most astute fans of AFC, have made a compromise. Knowing that the route of reckless spending will imperil the club, as it did to Leeds, Portsmouth and Rangers, to name a few of the recent high profile cases, we have agreed to the self-sustaining model so long as the owners do not take dividends but rely on capital gains as their form of extracting profit. We are satisfied if they use most of the surplus generated year by year to strengthen the club so we can compete today and in the future.
    Perfect? Certainly not. But, to me, it is a much better alternative than handing all the surplus to a few multi-millionaire footballers like Mr Van Persie.

  204. ‘It’s time people at ACLF stop toeing the media line and start calling a spade a spade.’

    the only people toeing the media line are the likes of Ateeb.

  205. Shotta,

    You make some interesting comments, however I disagree with the criteria of seeing this club as a ‘self-sustaining’ club. I think it’s much more than that. It’s a club which is continuing to make a lot of profits, when even a break even or some losses could have been sustained in the long run. I find it irrational that we can take loans to fund the stadium but not to improve the squad (including wages). Times have changed. We are competing with different clubs in different contexts now. We need prudence to win in this environment. Not this obsession with self sustaining which is a lie to begin with. If the market rate for world class talent are wages in the range of 180,000 than you can do little about it. Will you keep selling your best players? Good luck with that. You can charge the most for tickets at the stadium because it’s a ‘fantastic cub with entertaining football’, but you don’t want to pay the players the wages the market is imposing upon them?

    Secondly, all this daily nonsense by everyone about ethics and money. Please. It’s a capitalist world, what else do you expect? Everyone, including most of us, change jobs for money and other reasons. The way Robin could be seeing at the moment might be ‘Higher wages and actually winning something including the CL’. Which is quite possible if you ask me. He’s been a prick for sure, given that we bared with his injuries etc. But I really don’t think the club has any emotional or ethical attachment to players, and Eduardo is a case in point. You’re discarded as easily as you’re bought depending on your value to the club. So why should the players hold any other logic than the one the club uses upon them?

    I’m not saying he’s a vanguard or revolutionary in any sense of the term. He’s earning thousand times more than an average worker. I’m just saying, that we should start being honest with ourselves. At the moment, Arsenal is a profit making company. Trust me, if an offer in the range of £ 28m would have been received we would have sold him by now. That is really how the club has operated historically and will continue to do so, unless the fans stop falling for this bullshit ‘it’s a self sustaining model’ crap that we’re sold. At the moment how things stand, the club is al right to invest in stadium for capital accumulation but not so much in players that might reduce profits. Will we take a loan to buy players if we needed some? No. And all this ‘oh we’re grooming players, buying them young’ crap. Yes. So age is the criteria now? Our money has turned a lot of heads as well when it comes to attracting young players. But we’re going to moan like hell when someone else does that to us? Like I said, too much hypocrisy. And let’s not kid ourselves, we’re not even going to win the Carling cup next season if Robin leaves. Another year of the team learning to gel together, Wilshere coming back from injury, others retreating into the medical room. I think we can do with some prudence, which means breaking this self imposed £130,000 wage bracket. While teams around us have brought in huge talents in the last few years, we’ve sold our best players. I don’t think we’re progressing, unless by progress you all mean ‘paying back our loan’.

    I think at the moment we require extreme flexibility to break away from this image of a ‘selling club’ without ambition. Three of our top players have complained that Arsenal are not serious about winning and they’ve moved on. I think we should choose players over profits in the current scenario, even if it means not making £ 25 million profit for fucks sakes. And it has also become apparent that Arsene can’t hold onto players as he was able to do so before. We lost players at the peak of their game. I think we need to fundamentally rethink what we believe as the right way for the club to progress. And let’s not bring ethics and morals into football please. Nobody is going to play for you for free, when you’re winning nothing and paying less. Coupled with players watching their team mates being sold at profits, I think it’s become apparent to players what this club has turned into. I think fans need to catch up. We don’t need to spend billions like other clubs, but we do need to dispose off a lot of fringe players as well as think about our wage structure.

  206. Shotta

    There is an alternative. A middle ground between spending like man city or PSG and spending like arsenal. We don’t need to spend anything like Citeh to increase our wage budget enough to be able pay competitive wages for our best players Our owners could easily afford to spend a little of their own cash at least for a couple years until we can increase our commercial revenue. Spending more then we take in for 1,2 or even 3 years does not mean an inexorable slide into financial ruin.

  207. @Bill
    And I am sure you will be able to point to some clubs that have done this to great effect in football, right? Because when I look in the past, I can’t see any clubs that succesfully travelled this middle ground. I see clubs that did spend money, but in all cases there was someone to pick up the tab, be it because they were massive commercially (ManU) or because the people behind it wouldn’t let them fail no matter what they do (Real Madrid, Barca). I don’t really see any clubs with sound financial history suddenly deciding to gamble their money and it actually working out. There are clubs that tried it, trust me. Just look at Borussia Dortmund. They were a massive club in the 90s, winning the Champion’s League, and they are a massive club right now. What this doesn’t tell you, however, is that inbetween they almost went into administration. Why? Because they spent more money than they had. They wanted to bring the success of the 90s to the new century and bought some expensive top class players. Players like Amoroso, Rosicky, Koller etc. Some worked out — but far more importantly — some didn’t. The reason why we got Rosicky relatively cheaply in 2006 is because Dortmund had to sell him, they had no choice. They had to sell a lot of their players and only barely avoided relegation. But they learned their lesson, decided to go for a youth-based approach and now they are reaping the rewards. But I am sure that if they finish behind Bayern next season you will surely advise them that going into debt “a little bit” and only “for a couple of years” is a really good and sound strategy.

  208. Ateeb, quite a rant there. So city start to pay players 200+k/week and it is the norm of what footballers should get, never mind that it is not the norm in football and teams that do it have a whole different level of money. But you obviously know the whole deal so there is nothing to say.

  209. Evil @ 3:40:

    I don’t know enough about history to argue with you. I just see a club whose Owens could easily afford to spend enough money to help us thru this period. Self sufficiency and maintaining the normal high ground is nothing more then a way for the owners to avoid spending their own money. Look at he money that the owners make from their arsenal investments in shotta’s post at 7:46. Stan profits will probably dwarf those numbers all while he watches the club struggle with this year after year. Who brings the people into the stadium and who do people pay sky sports to watch, RVP or Stan. Who really brings all that money into football? Who would you rather see filling up their pockets. The players or owners?

  210. Great post by Ateeb.

  211. Well if we’re all going to act as capitalists and managers, how about bringing in the notion that spending money could lead towards success that might in turn lead towards more profits and better commercial deals. The latter is where we’re struggling. Which are the new fans that would want to follow a club like Arsenal, that hasn’t won shit for 7 years? Especially when each year we’re selling our best players? Fans just don’t follow clubs because of their ‘ self sustaining model’, but because of the players they associate themselves with and perhaps the type of football. While we all surely admire Arsene for the free flowing football we’ve grown accustomed to, we tend to forget that it’s the players on the pitch that perform. Supporters aren’t just fans of the club as a mythical institution but also of players that perform at the club. And we’ve lost 3 of our best players in the last couple of years, for various reasons, amongst which has been not investing in the squad as much as we should have. Winning trophies attracts not just fans but also commercial investments in the form of advertising. We’ve not made much progress on both fronts. You all-including the people who’ve been writing simplistic articles for a month now-can congratulate and pat each other on the backs for associating success with profits. Ironically the lust for money has also been used to defame Robin. It is the first time for years that people here have agreed with people on ‘other’ blogs, which is a cause for concern. I think the club is not serious about hanging on to Robin at the moment, neither the supporters nor the media has made any efforts to challenge the club’s stance on Robin. Instead what we have had is this reduction of Robin’s stance to purely economic terms while the club has been left off the hook a bit too easily. If you want to see your best players stay at the club it’s time we start a fundamental rethinking of what we mean by progress. If not, spare us with the monotonous, hypocritical and simplistic views of what’s right and wrong based on misconceived ideas of ethics and morality plays. Even if you’re going to play the role of managers as armchairs, even then, it makes much more sense to start investing ‘a bit’ more so that you can secure good commercial deals. At this rate I doubt you’ll be attracting the new generation of fans the world over, who frankly don’t give a shit about profits, but want to see star players. I think we have a great squad that needs to keep their best players, that can be achieved through a hierarchy in wages and cutting our losses on some fringe players. Even if it means making losses for a couple of years.

    Its astounding to me that we couldn’t build a strong enough team around Cesc that would have won ‘SOMETHING’ over the last few years. It’s a disgrace to players like him and they have every right to leave. Yes we’ve had bad lucks and injuries. That is why there is a squad that should have good backup players. Right now if Robin stays, we are well poised to challenge for trophies with Giroud and Podolski as back ups. If he leaves, enjoy another year of £20m profits, which benefits none but the owners.

  212. The only way those owners can actually fill their pockets is by selling their shares. Now, I am not going to argue if it’s okay or not if someone who has been a shareholder for 25 years decided to finally sell. I would’ve preferred the old setup to not sell, because it meant that Arsenal stayed safe and away from a single entity “owning” us like it has happened now. But that’s beside the point. The point is that for Stan to make a profit with the club, he will have to sell. The short-term option would be to sell to Uzmanov, and probably get a healthy 1k or more profit per share. Kroenke isn’t doing that, which means that he is in for the long haul. And over a longer term the only way he can expect the club to remain financially attractive is by either making good investments (like the stadium we built and so many people seem to be constantly forgetting) or sporting success.

    So it is in Stan’s best interests for the club to be succesful. However, there is no sensible argument to be made why Stan should be doing anything at this point. If he puts his own money in, best case scenario will be that we could have some success. But what happens in 2014, when we get our new commercial deals in? At that point in time, those deals will probably be enough to pay for our wage budget because we tried to pay something closer to the going rate. So having those commercial deals will not make much of an impact. In fact, they will become a necessity because otherwise we won’t be able to stay afloat without a yearly loan from our owner to pay for our running costs. It won’t impact the worth of the club in a positive way. And that is the best case scenario.

    If we look at the worst case scenario, Stan puts his money in and we don’t get the required success, we even end up dropping out of Europe (as an extreme example) he will have diminished the financial worth of the club by putting a debt on it. So, for Stan personally, he would be a very, very stupid man if he would do anything else but sit there on his chair, quietly.

  213. Once again, if the club makes a profit, noone benefits from it. The money stays with the club, so all that will happen to that money is that it will be reinvested the year after. It won’t disappear down the drain magically, it won’t flow into the pockets of the owners.

  214. I trust Wenger is a respectable man. Him being at the club says a lot to me. However, if one believes they are being taken for a ride, support another team that spends at a loss.

  215. Paul,

    If that’s what Robin’s value is elsewhere, why not? It seems fair to me given that he’s amongst the top 3 players in the world at the moment. It’s not like we have to start paying everyone so much. You think Theo hasn’t signed because he wants £ 200,000 as well? I think players know their worth. Apart from Robin I don’t think anyone can be categorized as world class in our team. They’re all good players. Robin has to stay, even if it means paying more than City does. Why not? Why do millions turn to watch Barcelona? You don’t think players like Messi deserve the pay that they’re getting? How do you differentiate from a world class player and others? How much is Rooney earning (180,000)? Every team has world class players that are paid more than the rest, why shouldn’t ours? Sure there would be some odd egoistic players like Nasri, but we don’t know what we offered him. We did see a good profit opportunity though.

  216. I beg to differ as far as having good players around Cesc. We have had good players. There is no reason why we didn’t win the pl, season before last. Also the year Eduardo year, that team was excellent. At some point the players are responsible for not getting the job done and Cesc is a part of the failure, Ateeb.

  217. I don’t distrust Arsene, but I do think he is more calculative than he should be. He’s the only manager who keeps going on and on about finances. The fetish of money can be quite abstract and dominating that doesn’t spare even the best of us. Look at what’s happened here in a month? Everyone is calculating as if their own money is at stake. And most of us know, the world class players will command the salaries that the market determines for them. Simple as that. It would be a joke if the club didn’t offer Robin as much as City is offering. Because as far as I know, players like Ronaldo, Messi, Iniesta, e.t.c are getting a lot of weekly wages as well. I think Cesc’s case was genuine, that he took a cut to move to Barca. And fair enough, given that the club had shown no signs of being flexible enough to win anything over the years.

  218. Sure Cesc is part of the failure. But he didn’t fail alone. You had your main striker on the treatment table for 5 years (Robin). You were playing with players like Adebayor, which frankly speaking was far away from a world class player even back then. We were keeping Vela and Bendtner as back ups. Although I do agree, we should have won the PL that year, but apart from that we’ve always been a couple of players short. Just look what Arsene does to his key players by running them to the ground. Cesc is still dealing with injury problems and we’ve yet to see Wilshere again. He’s got no idea what rotation means any more. He once said we’re not buying any player after Adebayor’s departure because he sees Vela as his replacement. As if Vela would lead us to titles, even as a backup. We’re not even getting £4m for him.

  219. Ateeb, RVP can go to a team that can pay him that. My point is that only a few teams can afford to do it and most have artificial funds, therefore it is not a norm due to business being run sensibly. These teams are play things. If that is what you believe is good dealings, that’s Kool with me.

    Show me a sensibly run club, that makes their own money, that can pay the sort of fees you think poor RVP deserves.

  220. I don’t think you can call a club sensible that continues to generate profits ‘every year’ and wins nothing for years.

    And I doubt paying Robin the right wages would sent the club into administration. In fact we might actually win something next year that might lead to better commercial deals. Why so much pessimism and catastrophic accounts of the trajectories that the club will take if it becomes more flexible?

  221. “And let’s not bring ethics and morals into football please.”

    I bring it into the rest of my life Ateeb, my brother. I am not going to make an exception for football.

    The game is sick. It won’t get better by paying already obscenely rich people even more millions.

    Paul is spot on.

  222. I agree with Ateeb

  223. Olivia Newton John sang, “Let’s get cynical, cynical, I wanna get cynical, Let’s get into cynical, Let me hear your cynical talk”. I’m happy to oblige.

    https://aculturedleftfoot.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/ambitions-the-life-and-death-of-a-football-club/

  224. Why on earth does Ateeb or anyone else think a ManCity type approach is replicable, or alternatively an approach that says “invest more than your surplus (ie incur debt) for the purpose of over-valuing players and their wages”? The ManCity/PSG model is by definition an exceptional, singular model. The second model has failed everywhere in EPL except ManUnited. Chelsea is somewhere in between, little ManC, and we shall see how that is sustained. And if someone can show me another ManUnited model, anywhere in the world, that would be fascinating.

    The mistake an angry Ateeb makes, as well as the donald duck naivete of Bill, both extraordinarily stupid comments, is in not comparing Arsenal as it is run now, to Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle (as examples, but just continue down the EPL ladder, the model is the same, only the level differs) and realising the real accomplishment at Arsenal over this decade and a half; never being out of the top 4 in 15 years.

    It is idiotic and a lie to say Arsenal are not, over this period, the most successful team in the EPL with the sole exception of United. But what really marks Arsenal is that it has achieved this, and re-built its physical infra-structure, its global brand, and at the same time achieved unsurpassed distinction in its football in the EPL.

    I think what really irks is the suggestion or idea that the American model of sports franchises and their economics is something worth emulating in football, or can be sustained, or have been successful in as sporting endeavours. It is an utter lie that “this is the way sports is going”. As far as I know, baseball, American football and basketball, have failed miserably relative to football, cricket and rugby in terms of global growth and appeal as team sports. Who the fuck watches or competes: baseball (Japan, Cuba and USA?), american football (no-one, maybe Canada), and basketball (what? the 6th, 7th or 9th most followed sports a dozen countries). These are not models of anything.

    The current German model of top level club football is the most interesting, because it is capable of producing an extremely high level of “product” at a lower cost. Who here is now going to argue that German club football “has failed”? Spain is a ridiculous two-horse affair, utterly manipulated as a monopoly by the two, and hardly an example. Italy has its moments, until you dig and discover the actual level of corruption, racism. France works pretty well in general, as does Portugal. Netherlands is an over-achiever. But the point is, these are the examples outside of UK. And then you begin to obtain an inkling of how successful Arsenal are, in a european landscape.

    van Persie has said absolutely nothing of interest or meaning, fools, it was a negotiating ploy, nothing more, a way of forcing the club to agree to sell.

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