Is All Money Silverware? Arsène Waits To Prove That A Lie

I feel that this morning’s post should begin with some rousing wartime music; something to get the pulses racing – or the paces rulsing as I typed in a Scooby Doo style first time around – or to signify the donning of Arsène’s tin hat ahead of what is preposterously being called a “D-Day”. I suppose technically it is, the manager has to announce the squad going to Asia this weekend but to believe he does not already know who is going to make the journey is daft.

If Robin stays and works on his training, is it a sign that he is leaving or that he let himself go on holiday and is not match fit? If he goes, will he play his last match for Arsenal against Manchester City in ten days or so time, the first half a farewell performance, the second for his new employers? And that answers the only question for which there is an answer: Do we know what is going on? No. So much conjecture, so little time.

And there’s still room for more. Yesterday was supposedly the day when the squad would be announced. It wasn’t, why not? What shenanigans are concealed. You want the truth? You can’t handle the truth. In some cases, you can’t even handle the lies. But it’s the not knowing that kills you.

Talking to the media, Arsène‘s grabbed the horns of the modern football dilemma and in doing so, set a kitten amongst a flock of birds. It might only be a small cat but by September, it will be a big one whose existence will be hard to ignore,

I believe that to lose £150million a year, you don’t deserve a lot of credit to win a competition

Indeed you don’t but in answering that criticism, the Manchester City’s and Chelsea’s of the world will argue that winning is all that matters. In the Premier League era, money has overridden sporting endeavour. It is little wonder that managerial longevity is a thing of the past. Ferguson and Wenger are throwbacks to a bygone era, one where managing meant building a squad rather than a fight between the biggest cheque book.

That shift in balance raises uncomfortable questions about the basis of professional sport. The Corinthian spirit died long ago and this era of wealth (or debt, depending on your viewpoint) underlines that. At the heart of the matter is what is the point of a football club in the professional game if there is no chance of winning? It isn’t profitable, the Premier League underlines that. If it is for the sport, that is against the ethos of professional sport since we are continually told that it is to win at all costs. It’s a vacuous argument but it reflects the world we live in today.

Arsène invoked the title wins of Derby County, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa but they were not sustained success. Derby were champions twice in five years, Forest fared little better in terms of longevity whilst Villa arguably capitalised on Ipswich’s overriding desire to finish second rather than top the table. The team that finished top in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and this century has invariably been one of the big spenders. Liverpool did not construct a squad from the reserves, most players were bought. Neither did Arsenal or Manchester United. Big money just got bigger and the gap to the rest, considerably wider in the financial sense.

You wonder what now for Abramovich. The Champions League is now secured and I guess he wants to see Chelsea win the World Club Cup or whatever Fifa call it these days. But what then, what if they do? Go out and win it again? Despite protestations to the contrary, I am not convinced of this. How long does his ego need assuaging in that sense? Diminishing returns is about to set in, each trophy lifted with a lessening sense of fulfilment. That is not to say he will sell immediately but once was a long-term project may need redefining.

In that sense, FFP may yet help the owners of the richest clubs in the world. Looking at football now, to buy a club is not enough any more, the financial structure has to be there to sustain it as well. FFP may make that infinitely more manageable and football clubs will become more saleable assets.

It is somewhat perturbing though to read of his continued faith in Uefa’s regulations,

If the rules are well introduced, it will be a massive advantage to Arsenal Football Club, of course, and we will be well positioned for that.

They won’t be and his contract ends at around the time that will become proven. Will it be the straw that breaks the camel’s back, the end of a managerial reign that has transformed the club in the same way that Herbert Chapman did in the previous century?

Back to the coming season. The squad for Arsenal will be all; Laurent Koscielny is on the verge of signing a new deal according to reports which a promising start. The manager does not want to wait until August 31st again before finishing his transfer business – I hope he kept his diary clear for August 8th when Yann M’vila has another medical pencilled in – and that is a good start although now he will find the crescendo for more signings is unstoppable; an unyielding and unforgiving cacophony.

The season starts in less than one month. That is a lot of time in football but as it gets closer, that time will seem to pass more quickly.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on July 20, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 176 Comments.

  1. riproarringred

    Twice in two days

  2. riproarringred

    Nice post btw

  3. riproarringred

    Where was it mentioned that M’villa has a medical on August 8th?

  4. riproarringred

    M’Vila (my bad)

  5. Morning YW

  6. The red faced used money power to dominate until Chelsea and later were able to fight him in the transfer mart.
    The best players gravitate towards the highest pay naster.If Wenger wants to prove otherwise,this season will be his last opportunity to do so. As forr ffp,I don’t have much faith in it. Wait till UEFA take actions against the RM /Barca/Chelsea,etc. Then I would believe it aint toothless.

  7. Yogi, that would be a sad way for the Boss to bow out, if it came down to that.

  8. Thank you YW, a really well considered piece among the maelstrom of bullshit that pollutes the airwaves and the net at this time. I can’t really argue with any of it – and I don’t want to, there have been enough futile spats here to last ten close seasons.
    I’m in the unenviable position of not wanting the season’s start date to come around too soon. I’m finishing work for the summer today and do not want to wish these precious few weeks away, at the same time I’m gagging for it. As I believe you youngsters like to say.

  9. The morals against money saga plays out in various scenario’s all over the planet. As romantic as it may be to root for the moralisitc underdog, money normally rules the day. It may turn out like that for Arsene. 😦

  10. And of course Andy it may not, try to keep your chin up mate I worry for you when you start the day in such a bleak and pessimistic mood.

  11. He’s probably got a 20 mile, full kit route match at oh christ double o on the morrow to look forward to, steww.

  12. Good point Bob, whereas I am about to start a very relaxed and easy last day at work for five weeks. The weather now changes to endless balmy sunshine and I recover from my illness.
    See that’s positive thinking.

  13. Steww – Heh, cheers mate.

  14. Talking of which, better swill the last of this rather amazing coffee (Ferrari, roasted in Wales) clean the gnashers and get on my bike. I believe young people employ the expression ‘laters’ (although I prefer ‘chin chin’).

  15. Goonerdownunder

    Wish the season started this weekend, I’m so sick of all this transfer/contract bollocks. As it stands right now I think we have a good enough squad to challenge this season. Whatever will be will be but I know one thing for certain, I’ll be cheering the lads on from all the way down here like always.

  16. Goonerdownunder

    Consolsbob are you anywhere near menheniot?

  17. arsenalandrew

    “The season starts in less than a month.”

    The best thing I’ve read all week, thank you.

    Tally-ho, Steww.

  18. Excellent, YW…

  19. Ferguson is (was) not exactly adverse to spanking outrageous sums of money on players (Ferdinand, Veron, Rooney, Berbatov – all +30m??).

    Chequebook football if you want to go down that route of criticism / paranoia.

  20. Well, not too far, goonerdownunder.

  21. Steve – it’s plain truth not paranoia. But then plenty of teams probably look on with envy at our financial clout. Everything is relative. Especially your Uncle.

  22. I love arsene wenger all the same

  23. Steww

    You’re 100% correct of course. I just can’t be bothered casting envious glances or indeed being critical of how other clubs manage their business.

    We spend what we do, as a club we could choose to spend more and accumulate a level of manageable debt but we don’t. I don’t take a huge degree of pride from this I just accept it is how we run our business.

    I don’t hold out much hope for FFP in general as I can’t really see the day when UEFA stands up to some of the larger European clubs and removes them from their glittering prize and global money making event that is the CL.

  24. Steve

    Completely agree.

  25. All that said, the likes of City and Chelsea can only buy so many players. I am confident that if we get our own house in order, we are more than capable of challening the cash saturated clubs regardless of who they buy. They can’t have all the best players.

    Add to that, we have seen in the past that simply having the “best” players does not mean that you will win. I am a big advocate of looking inwards, not outwards. Fix our own problems within the team and we are good enough to beat anybody.

  26. Also, Ferguson was able to capitalise on Man utd’s early dominance during the first years of the sky era, while Wenger pulled off some amazing deals due to his manegerial ability, money from Anelka and Overmars’s sale was spent on building the invincibles, so in both cases i would say the two managers were successful due to their abilities and money earnt.

    It gets boring complaining about City and Chelsea but the fact is Arsenal have become the most affected club due to their bags of moolah, you say they can’t buy all the good players? More like they can’t buy all OUR good players because i doubt that is going to stop anytime soon, and yes i can’t handle the truth either.

  27. As always, great post. What get’s me is the fact most gooners don’t recognise that sir Norris bought us a stadium and then bought us player after player, not with club generated money as we were in liquidation when he purchased the club, which was the basis of our first league win and domination in the 30’s. The only real difference between what he did and the Russians and Arabs are doing now, is that back then there was strict wage capping and no bosman rule…

  28. The point is always going to be the fans of the club, not the players. The ACLF argument, which I’m happy to see supported by Arsene Wenger, in all its diverse individuality, is not only justifiable, it’s actually the only show in town. The truth is still fuzzy, but dawning.

    To the extent that football “success” is becoming predicated on insane levels of investment and debt over and above sustainable – or at least an honest attempt at break-even – income versus expenditure of a football club, then those poor, unfortunate fans are cheering a business brand masquerading as a football club, not a football team. They may as well sit in the terraces singing songs for Coca Cola, Barclays Bank or McDonalds. This degree of consumerist idiocy is unprecedented. This applies directly to Manchester City and Chelsea. That their fans will accept these “victories of money” over time-honoured football values or etiquette, without protest, means they have sold any right to call themselves fans of a football club. The players, as Frank notes, are contractors, pawns in the system. Their victories, purchased in much the same way as real estate, are insignificant.

    At least Manchester United fans are worried, as are Liverpool fans; at least they have asked questions, and wondered what the future holds if victory is bought, not earned. So, I respect them for that.

    The bigger question is why, exactly, are oligarchs and oil-sheiks, arms dealers and retail juggernauts, bankers and speculators, investing such sums? What is their purpose? I suppose indirect access to a “captive market” of about a billion, and a large proportion of consumer idiots, via TV rights has something to do with it. Ultimately, who controls this machine, literally a product of the new information age?

    At some point soon, a minority of football fans will understand the degree of manipulation, lies, hypocrisy and abuse and at some point this will reach a critical mass. Fans are more important than players. We are more important than the best players the world has ever seen put together. We just don’t know it.

  29. BBC reporting that RVP will not be travelling.

  30. “I am confident that if we get our own house in order, we are more than capable of challening the cash saturated clubs regardless of who they buy. They can’t have all the best players.”

    One of your best posts Andy, completely agree.

  31. Nothing so far on SSN.

  32. Yopu can’t put the genie back into the bottle. The train has already left the station. Bycks make the world go round.Many times a guy who is in his last year and wants big bucks and the club won’t pay it can cause a ton of problems for the club. They can pay hard ball and force him to play out his last year. Some times this works other times it doesn’t so in the end the club has to make the best decison for the club.

  33. And Zimpaul – staggeringly good post.

  34. I’ll be keeping an eye on the pre-season to see who out of Theo, Gervinho, Chamakh and Giroud want the centre-forward place most. Any one of them could do a job there. I’d keep Podolski on the left.

  35. An excellent post ZP.

    I agree with every word bar the last paragraph and then I agree that fans are mor eimportant than players. We ARE football.

    I am afraid that my view of the world is that people will one day be “…singing songs for Coca Cola, Barclays Bank or McDonalds.” I think this because, “(t)his degree of consumerist idiocy is unprecedented.”

    The brakes are off the handcart.

  36. I’m not sure that Arsene Wenger would place all his footballs into the FFP basket. He is stubborn, bless him. And there’s nothing wrong with him using the public platform which he is offered to voice his preference. My favourite quotes of recent times from Arsene are when he talks to the hacks about the ‘game we all love’. The man is a genius, of that there is no doubt. At least, he is very smart. Did i mention stubborn?
    Some of Arsene’s critics use an alternative method to the jingle bells of Robson’s xenophobia. They worry that poor old Arsene is too nice, too naive. A line some try to use here too.
    That must help to explain why Nasri’s agent loves him so.

  37. Biob, I catch my kids watching adverts on Youtube. Voluntarily.

  38. I discovered yesterday that my No.2 grandaugther, who is 12, is on Youtube, steww.

  39. I am on it playing guitar in the Methodist Hall Midsomer Norton aged about 13 I believe,. Someone said the song was supposed to be Smoke On The Water. I’ll see if I can dig it out.

  40. That’ll be the new genetically enhanced me, steww.

  41. If we went out and spanked €120m in the next few weeks and proceeded to win the league at home to United next season then I for one would be doing cartwheels and would proceed to get hugely drunk in various pubs in N5 commencing at the Bank of Friendship. I would probably feel a little sick the next day but by jove I would be happy.

    Anybody who tries to suggest they wouldn’t enjoy this ‘tainted’ and bought success would in my opinion be a little erm … economical with the truth.

    Of course when I had recovered from my hangover I would sit myself down in front of the mirror and tell myself that I had sold any right to call myself a fan of a football club.

    Zimpaul makes a lot of sense, but that comment in particular is utter fucking drivel.

  42. Good post ZP – the interesting point is why, if you are a plutocrat of immeasurable wealth, you would choose to put your cash in to such a fundamentally unstable business model as a Premiership football club.

    I suspect there are different motives for different horses in this particular race.

  43. I don’t know Steve. You can’t be on the side of the good guys for so long and then just celebrate as hollow victory as if it was earned. It would stretch your integrity too far. If we were suddenly bought by an oil state I’d have to seriously reconsider the whole thing.

  44. pedantic george

    Steww has it.
    I would just trow in the towel.
    City and Chelsea are the equivalents of the playground bullies.Everyone is just waiting for them to fail.Their achievements are shallow and very forgettable.

  45. I agree with that steww.

    Sorry steve, you might well feel that way, I don’t.

    That’s not being ‘economical with the truth’, it’s just having a particular set of principles.

    You arer welcome to yours, of course, but don’t assume that we are all the same.

  46. steve , i think the saying is “spunked” anyway why it is obvious we would all enjoy a tainted win the point is having won it before with players that were as ARSENAL as us ,you wont enjoy as much. getting there is a greater experience than the the result in most cases. this is where hollow victory comes from.

  47. according to bbc, we have received bids from shitty, utd and juventus. i would sell to juventus, even if it’S just 8 million.

  48. I knows when Steve is coming from. I bet the M City fans don’t give two hoots where their players are coming from.

    You know how it is, you always get behnid new signings and your players regardless once they take to the pitch. Watching Arsenal is always a buzz regardless of outside circumstances.

    I support the club. Not the players, not the manager, and not the owners. As it happens I love our current manager and like many of the players.

  49. First of all very good post Yogi.

    Its been a hectic week for me. Have been doing the reading on here, but haven’t had the time to post.

    Goonerandy at 10:02, very good point about looking inwards and money not being key in terms of winning. We need to only look at Montpellier and notice that PSG even with their huge financial clout, couldn’t win the Ligue 1 title. It is obvious Montpellier have a very tight budget.

    I believe, if we are able to integrate our new players, we will challenge without additions to the squad, even if Van Persie leaves. If we can bring in a few quality players, we have been linked with, especially that Ganso kid. I believe we will have a very good season.

    It is a big season for Steve Bould as well. Can’t wait to see what he can bring to the table. Start the bloody season I say!

  50. Aman

    i wouldnt mind bringing merida back…

  51. Zim Paul

    Nice point. We are idiots aren’t we? But we can’t get ourselves out of it too! That’s just the way it is.

  52. ZimP nailed it at 10:26 am. Sporting values, not just football, is being corrupted by the power of money. But even money has its limits. It is a truism; it is impossible to maintain an unsustainable business forever. Even those in UEFA who are in the thrall of Arab sheiks, Russian oligarchs, bankers, hedge funders and arms merchants recognize that the current model is unsustainable but are too corrupted by the money to take the necessary reforms.

    Sorry CBob, while it may not happen in our lifetime, if the current race to the abyss continues “At some point soon, a minority of football fans will understand the degree of manipulation, lies, hypocrisy and abuse and at some point this will reach a critical mass.”
    – Think boxing. Think the heyday of Ali and Frazier. Do you know or care who is today’s heavyweight champion? I don’t and I haven’t watched a bout for years much less subscribe to a pay-per-view.
    – The dimunition is a drip, drip until it becomes a deluge and our grandchildren are left to wonder what was all that fuss about.

  53. Korihikage

    The comments made by YW on Vela a couple of days ago is applicable for Merida as well. Extremely talented player, but now a free agent.

    I wouldn’t use a squad space for him!

  54. At that point, shotta, the new fans will be wearing ‘coca cola’ scarves.

    Football will be dead but money will still be made from it’s corpse.

  55. Only two teams have ever won the premiership, us and united, the rest have bought it. Steve, I too frequent “the friendship” on the black horse crawl back to the station,and if I caught you celebrating such a hollow title win I would buy you a packet of nuts that were at least 6 months out of date so along with your guilt the following morning hopefully there would be gut ache of the worst kind,failing that a dry slap?!

  56. korihikage at 11:25 am

    Not that simple mate, the player has the final say. Do we really think VP will want to go to Juve?

  57. ‘Football will be dead but money will still be made from it’s corpse.’

    poetic, consols, poetic.

    really beautiful, but sad.

  58. Markus

    we can choose not to sell to the other two, can’T we?

    actually i am pretty sure we will eventually sell him to either united or shitty. in fact i rather he go to shitty.

  59. Mel | July 20, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    No need to resort to violence!

  60. If he doesn’t get the move he wants he’ll stay for another year and go for free on a Bosman, which is not ideal for the player or club.

  61. Markus

    i would like to see for once a player doesn’t get his way.

  62. Limestonegunner

    It’s not ideal for the club to sell him at all, particularly to PL clubs.

  63. My opinion:
    IF, (repeat twice) we sell Van Persie, it will be late in the window, a la Nasri. Any new high profile purchase will be late in the window to forestall a bidding war for any player with Wenger’s seal of approval.
    Stay tuned.

  64. i agree with shotta. but nasri went on the tour, while van persie apparently isnt going. so what will he do in the meantime? sit around and twiddle with his thumb?

  65. If he heads to City, surely they have a surplus of strikers. Who’s there? Aguerro, Roque, Dzeko, Tevez, and … someone else, I lose track, and vanP? I suppose Roque goes, but even so, 4 or 5 top players vying for 2 positions, Dzeko already unhappy. For ManU a wondrous purchase, the ideal replacement for what Berbatov was supposed to be. A major strengthening of their forward department that allows Rooney to perform in his most dangerous role, just behind. I wonder what the offers are? I wonder if we have a replacement in mind? I wonder if swops are being considered. I wonder if Tevez comes into that picture. If so I would be jubilant.

    At Arsenal, my gut feeling is that Podolski/Giroud could play central, Arshavin will be retained for the left with Gervinho, Ryo will get some games; and Theo and Ox will, generally, look to play right.

  66. pedantic george

    Robin leaving is sad but not unexpected.
    I bitterness comes from him not living up to the expectations we had for him.But as Arshavin said ,that is our problem ,not his.

  67. Steve, no dry slap then, just a bad pint!

  68. precisely ZimPaul. if we have to sell, sell him to man city. of course he will boost them. but he won’t boost them to the extent he would to utd. and they might as well give the trophy to city already. let the rest fight for 2nd.

    no thanks to tevez.

  69. george

    have u seen the pic of arshavin and song. he looked all smiles.

  70. pedantic george

    Kori .we completely outplayed City at home last year ,and were their equal in Manchester.No need to concede anything to anyone.
    Come on Arsenal

  71. I have no clue about Tevez the person, but the footballer is unique. I rate his great escape with West Ham as one the highlights of any player in any team this side of 2000.

  72. george

    just being sarcastic re giving title to shitty.

  73. Pg is right as usual, we outplayed them at our place,and we can always compete,they can’t buy wenger-always remember that!

  74. Pedantically speaking, I have this feeling that IF Arshavin were to set the EPL alight for the coming season, it would be so …. Russian! Just when you think they’re doomed, they dig deep, do it all opposite. Or as Eric the Universal poet would say “Good is bad, and bad is good”.

  75. You know what, there IS only one Thierry Henry.

  76. Andy – totally agree abt putting our own house in order. Arsenal has the talent to compete with anyone.

    Zim – I’m a fan of your thought process (usually everyday). Thanks

  77. there is only one Dennis Bergkamp, there is only one Arsene Wenger. but there are many mercenaries. all around.

  78. i always believe you have to pay back your debts.

    and to me, barcelona, man city owe us big time. and i think this is the season we will collect our debt.

    last season was a huge baptism of fire, a real test of character for the entire Arsenal family. the men’s team, the ladies’ team, the fans, the manager. i think we passed it.

    i am really looking forward to this season, because i think there are some scores to settle, and i think the team knows it.

    i smell blood. blood stained with oil and shit.

  79. … and, SPRECTUM aside, I think the fans know it too.

  80. Bob at 12:02pm: Wearing coca-cola scarves eh. Such a meaningless show of loyalty. Yesterday was pepsi, tomorrow is…?
    Show me value. Values as you know are timeless. I became attracted to Arsenal because of the values best projected by AW. Lose those values and they have lost me.

    BTW: Coincidentally, Lean Mean over at Arsenal Vision is today wrestling with the same concerns:
    http://www.arsenalvision.co.uk/my-vision/4101-losing-faith.html

  81. Robin: Ivan, on a final note, my mum and dad ask does this mean I am not getting my statue outside?
    Ivan: Not at all Robin, we bear no grudges, let me check my list, oh here we are, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, ah here we are, yes, you are number 864,139,273 … ah look, just above Ryan Shawcross who also has something of a tearful history with us. I expect something will be done in the 14th or 15th millenium. Hey, something to look forward to!

  82. There is much to admire about Arsenal’s business model, we have even had Liverpool and UEFA representatives visit to get a handle on how we do it so well. The model is strong and the club have their ducks in a row on the financing side with managable repayment of outstanding debt on the stadium. All that said, Arsenal have lagged behind in commerical revenue compared to like clubs within the EPL.

    Forbes recently listed Arsenal as the 10th most valuable sporting brand in the global market place. I am not just talking soccer, but all sports led by Man Utd and NY Yankees as 1 and 2. The task for Arsenal is not just to compete on the field, but also look to expand their global brand and secure commerical revenue from sponsors comparable to those clubs around us. I came across an article which had arisen from a tweet by an Adidas employee who alluded to the fact Arsenal maybe about to change shirt sponsors within the nest year or so to Adidas. I am not sure whether there is an element of truth to the article, but it does give pause. Arsenal need to get deals similar to Man Utd, Man City and Liverpool at around 20 million per season. Arsenal’s growth can only come from commerical advances, the owners have repeatedly stated that they are not putting their own cash in to the club.

    Finally, let RvP go. I hate to say it because he will indeed be missed but we need players committed to a vision of Arsenal going forward. Some may argue that RvP is or is not an Arsenal legend to be but the truth is for most fans his words hurt! We are all wise enough to understand that football have changed and the loyalty shown my fans is not recipricated by the players seen kissing the badge game in and out.

  83. So if RvP is going, what do we need 1 striker and 1 midfielder? I would love to see an experienced striker from the EPL… maybe a Ba? I’m thinking a holding midfielder, no surprise I would want to see M’Vila.

  84. I agree that, were we to find a sugar daddy prepared to throw vast sums of money at the club to buy the title, we would all be delighted, but only for a short time. It would feel an empty and hollow triumph, because Gooners are used to something more meaningful.

    For us it is the Invincibles and what they did, which remains with us and will do for many years, not a title purchased by some multibillionaire with more money than sense.

  85. Yogi another fantastic post.

    Money has always controlled sport and always will. We never took the moral high ground and stood up for the smaller market teams who never had a chance to compete with us when we were buying their players and winning trophies, so it seems a bit disingenuous to criticize Man City or Chelsea or real Madrid. I am happy to be able to buy Podolski, gervinho, Ox, Aaron, Theo, Giroud from teams that can’t afford to hold them, but i don’t rationalize that what we do to those less wealthy teams is somehow honorable. I have hated the New York Yankees for years just like I hate man City and Chelsea but I understand why they try to give themselves every possible advantage. We have owners who could easily afford to spend enough money to allow us to pay wages for our top players that would stop or at least slow the yearly exodus and help tide us through the next couple of years until we can get our contracts renegotiated and help bring our financial house into better shape.

    Enough of ranting. I don’t really hold any hope that we will keep RVP this season. I do hope we don’t sell him to one of the Manc clubs but in the end we will make the best business deal we can. Selling him will help man city but in truth probably will not significantly alter the balance of power. Our horizon for competing with them is probably 2-3 years and RVP will be declining by then. In 2-3 years kos, BFG sagna Song will all still be in their prime years. Podolski and Giroud will be adapted. Hopefully Theo will continue to improve, Ox, JW, Aaron Wojo, Gibbs will all have matured. Most important we should start seeing improved revenue by 2014 so we might be able to keep all those players together. So the reality is that if we are losing RVP, having him go to Citeh will not hurt our chances of holding on to CL spots for a couple years.

  86. The question you might ask Miami is how ever did Arsenal get to 10th on the Forbes list, if not from “commercial advances”?

  87. It worries me that we have not yet found homes for Bendtner, Park, Squillaci or Chamakh… all of whom are taking squad places.

  88. Come on Bill. I know you’re incapable of deviating from your party line but even you cannot seriously ignore the seismic shift in football finances represented by what has happened at City and Chelsea. ‘It has ever been thus’ simply does not wash.

  89. pedantic george

    I despair.

  90. Zimpaul,

    “The reality is that Arsenal’s revenue has been essentially flat over the last three seasons at around £225 million, while other clubs continue to grow their business. In that period, Manchester United, Tottenham and Manchester City have all added more than £50 million income, while Chelsea have also earned an additional £19 million. Of the top six, the only club to have under-performed like Arsenal is Liverpool – and even they have actually delivered impressive commercial gains to compensate for the loss of Champions League football”… stolen from Swiss Ramble.

    I’m not arguing with what Arsenal have done in the past to get where they are, but I am concerned we are not doing as well right now to enhance the brand. The way I see it rightly or wrongly is our hopes of competing are directly related to the money the club can pull in through “non ownership” revenue streams.

  91. Bill. Tosh.

    What City are doing is of a different order to what any football club has ever done.

    Apples and pears.

    Whatever we spent when winning things was our money, not the gift of a status hungry oil state who care nothing for the game of football apart from the PR value and the ‘global presence’ it gives them amongst ‘ordinary’ people and their competitors in the other Gulf states.

  92. Hasn’t professional football for the most part always been the play thing of the rich? I happen to agree with you to some degree Bill.

  93. pedantic george

    I give up.
    The lunatics are taking over the asylum.

  94. Bill, I’d also like to point out that we very rarely (in the Wenger era at least) buy players from our own league, let alone weaken rivals by luring their players away.

  95. It’s like saying cars have always run on petrol and so a formula 1 machine is the exact same thing as a reliant robin. Taking one common denominator does not make the entire equation the same.

  96. I’m curious why the EPL does not adopt the idea of FFP, like the lower leagues have done? Man City and Chelsea aside, who would not support it? Asking a club to live within their means and thus avoiding another Leeds United or Rangers FC would seem like a smart approach? Most clubs in the EPL all ready way beyond their means, and it cannot go on forever.

  97. Don’t discount the possibility that Arsenal are applying a carefully constructed strategy Miami, that is in some essential respects different to the “standard fare”. The simple fact is that Arsenal, from a base similar to Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle and far, far below Liverpool and ManU at the time, grew a global fanbase in about 5 years (97-2002), massively outstripping similar clubs, from football itself.

  98. That Mean Lean piece was very good. Like a summary of our debates over the past few months.

  99. pedantic george

    It was Bob,with a touch of plagiarism though.

  100. Players have come and gone, switched clubs, while clubs have risen and fallen. Lots of history and legacy. Some of the great historical clubs of the 50s and 60s and even later are nowhere to be seen today in top flight. This has nothing to do with what we have talking about.

  101. Miami- We have not been able to renegotiate our commercial deals for the last 6-7 years due to their long term nature whereas in the meantime manure, lvpool, spuds, chavs have renegotiated them a number of times. Once we negotiate a new deal after this season, I am sure we will get a deal at least as good as the lvpool one.

  102. pedantic george

    sahil.Why bother ? We have been saying that for years,He obviously is not listening.

  103. Nice read, Yogi!

    Appreciated!

    Good morning/afternoon/evening, all!

    Be blessed!

    ZP, Steww and Mr Bob with some excellent stuff this morning, overall excellent stuff and Bill had to mess it up.

  104. Miami Arsenal | July 20, 2012 at 2:49 pm
    Hasn’t professional football for the most part always been the play thing of the rich? I happen to agree with you to some degree Bill.
    *****
    You obviously never had to suffer the ascendancy of Ipswich Town in the old English Div 1, though I guess Mr. Cobbold was a “minor sugar daddy.” Every wurzel for miles around me was suddenly an Ipswich Town fan, which was really annoying at the time, nowadays I’m inclined to look on those times with a romantic rose-tinted glasses view.

  105. Steww

    Certainly there has been a siesmic shift and unfortunately it’s altered the balance of power away from us. I am numb to this because the financial doping and wage inflation etc started in the 70’s in US sports and its arrival in the PL was inevitable as the TV contracts and global expansion of European football brought more and more money into the game As yogi points out there have always been teams who control the game because of their wealth and since when is that “fair”. Its been a huge advantage for arsenal for all these years. I want to see FFP work and I want teams to be required to break even because as arsene said its going to help us. However, that’s not fair to smaller teams who have no chance to earn the sort of revenue that we can generate and whose best scenario is avoiding relegation. This will all evolve and play out over the next decade and whatever happens I hope we can come out on top. In the meantime I wish we would take a more pragmatic stance and do what’s needed to give ourselves a better chance to keep our top players and compete with the financial dopers. We don’t need to spend Man City type money or put ourselves into debt because we have Arsene Wenger, let’s not waste our opportunity.

  106. pedantic george at 3:03 pm
    A touch of CBob indeed. His shoulders are aching with all those back slaps.

    PS: Mean Lean is an ACLFer in spirit but he has a blog to run. His posters are generally not my cup of tea though.

  107. Bill

    the difference is that we spent what we earned. whereas for chelski and man shitty, the money dropped from the sky.

    i have no qualms with clubs spending big, if they earned that money fair and square.

    someone gave an analogy of a guy with a rich dad who drives a ferrari as though that was his birthright and another guy who worked like hell to save the money for a ferrari, only for the first guy to then use his dad’s money to buy 3 aston martins for the sake of it.

  108. Notoverthehill

    Yogi, top of the afternoon to you and you have the usual suspects, dancing to your tune?

    Now, Yogi, pray let me into the secret, will you not?

    I am not writing about the circa 72 pages of guff from UEFA about FFP.

    No, siree! Is that US American? It is about this “secret” meeting of the AST, that I have infiltrated via Arsenal Arsenal. There were two topics that caught my forensic attention. I understand 2 guests attended the meeting and it is the following from the report, that intrigues me:

    July 10th 2012:

    There were people at the meeting who do actually know what goes at Arsenal … and I mean Know.

    Yes RvP told AW and IG at the pre Euro meeting that he was not going to sign a new contract despite being offered the best deal arsenal have ever put on the table to a player £150k a week!!!!!

    Right, Yogi, own up, why have WE your loyal supporters, been denied this knowledge!

    The other topic was The Arsenal always being £15 millions in the red for the past few years.

    Sorry, GA, I cannot resist the cloak and dagger approach!

  109. Utter rubbish. I heard it was £170K per week

  110. so, think we’ll be back to a 4-4-2 come the start of the season? or stick with a 4-3-3? I’m thinking to get the most out of Giroud we are going to have to create some aerial threat from the wide players delivering crosses. The question for me is whether we are now better off with 2 advanced forwards, or 1 with another player just behind in the whole.

  111. Notoverthehill

    Yogi, who is milleryogi following Pedantic George on May 28th, 2012? “What has Arsene Wenger ever done for us? As funny as”

    Poznaninmypants!

  112. Wenger

    “I believe that to lose £150million a year, you don’t deserve a lot of credit to win a competition”

    That is the point being made.

  113. Kori @ 3:48:

    That is the most favorable scenario for Arsenal as things now stand so thats exactly where we draw our line in the sand. I hope thats the way things shake out in the next few years.

  114. Afar as my feelings towards RVP are concerned, this would be the final nail in the coffin

  115. As far*

  116. Sriram @ 11:32 am ,

    “We need to only look at Montpellier and notice that PSG even with their huge financial clout, couldn’t win the Ligue 1 title. It is obvious Montpellier have a very tight budget. ”

    Sets the mnd thinking!!

    Arsene has been open and honest about his philosophy and its continuation.The board and loyal have supported that self-same philosophy in the form of a self-sustaining business model. Hence, AFC seems like an invitation to treat for would-be gooners. Zimpaul, Cbob and other ACLFers have pointed to their support for this exact model from a business, moral and ethical point of view. So, my point?

    In our latest acquisitions we have Giroud. A former Montpellier asset who top scored at the highest level in France. A man who springs from an ethical background and is familiar with competing against better funded opponents. Also, incidentally, a player who it was suggested [by one of my favourite former players (Grimandi) whom I appreciated as much as the generally equally undervalued Nelson Vivas!!!], was brought in to replace RvP.

    Yet we see little appreciation of the work that goes into recruiting a Giroud, Podolski or Koscielny. I for one am pleased with the way things are going: defensive questions to be posed to the new management team; stronger squad and still potential midfield additions.

    Can’t wait for preseason to get under way.

  117. Sensational Arsenal

    mj, I followed that link. If anyone wants a little chuckle, go their home page and have a look at Rooney and co trying to look tough with their tea cosy/ kitchen apron home kit.

  118. So red nose confirms making a bid for Rvp. This should start a bidding war, upping his price. Please sell him to anyone but not manure.

  119. Limestonegunner

    Or ManCity.

  120. Limestonegunner

    Or Chelsea.

  121. Can’t believe man city would let him to to manU, so let the bidding begin Certainly pours gasoline on the fire

  122. The final nail hasn’t been nailed yet. RvP’s Arsenal life is dead and his coffin is still open for viewing in the shop window.
    Apparently Manure have made a derisory low offer and it was rejected. Maybe this will spark a bidding war and get Shitty to ante up more cash but my understanding is that under FFP rules they need to sell some of their excess strikers before they are allowed to buy more. Problem for us is that Shitty are going to have difficulty selling their excess strikers because few can afford the wages these guys (Tevez, Dzeko, Santa Cruz, Adebayor) are on. So the irony is Arsenal are being hurt by the FFP rules because they are preventing us (hopefully just temporarily) from selling RvP to what should be our highest bidders.

    I think all parties know he is engineering his move now and the public pretence of saying he is not for sale no longer has any value. Thus, I’d be shocked to see RvP on the trip to Asia.

  123. Thanks a lot, RVP! just the sort of attention the club needed.

  124. A Q&A from a writer/chief correspondent/arsenal fan wayne versey from goal, Not ITK!

    fact93_ecoB : “Why have Man Utd not bid for RVP?”
    Wayne Veysey: “I have been told that Van Persie is not a priority signing for Manchester United. They are more interested in recruiting Lucas Moura , Nuri Sahin and Leighton Baines . They are happy to be linked with Van Persie because it appeases the fans that the Glazers are willing to sanction marquee signings as well as emerging stars with sell on value (like Lucas).
    “United would not be willing to pay more than £10 million for a player who turns 29 next month and has only a year remaining on his contract, given that he would demand a salary on a par with Wayne Rooney. A £25m move for Van Persie? That will not happen.”

    Donozie : “Do Man City really need RVP?”
    WV: “Good question. Man City have the ambition and resources to be the strongest club side in the world. And the best teams need the best players. I don’t think anyone will disagree that Van Persie is an outstanding forward who can only make City more effective.”

    Kwalimwadavid : “What, in your opinion is the most likely conclusion to the Robin van Persie circus?”
    WV: “In my view, there are two potential scenarios. The first is that, believe it or not, Arsenal hold Van Persie to his contract and refuse to sell him this window. Despite where we stand now, this is still a distinct possibility.
    “The second is that Van Persie joins Manchester City. From what I hear, Manchester United are not seriously in for him, even though they are happy to be linked with him!”

    At least this is something to sink my teeth into, as of yesterday i was hopeful that Rvp would stay with us at least for one more year but this is just embarassing. Tis 20th July already, lets sort it out as soon as possible.

  125. Personally i don’t care who they sell RvP to – just so long as it is for an obscene amount of money. He was overplayed last year, played in the EUROs and with his history he’s probably a good risk to get crocked this year. This isn’t sour grapes. My first post in this forum was that Robin had a career year this year and that we should realise that he may have been motivated by the fact he was entering his last year. hopefully his fat contract will make him less motivated for his new employers.
    I don’t think 4 years from now we’ll be wishing he never left. He’s gonna be 30 next year. Perhaps a decline is in order. The only caveat to that opinion is I do notice he did bulk up and appears to have worked on his upper body conditioning the last year. Perhaps he takes strength conditioning more seriously that he did in the past and he is now reaping the fruits of this. He did look much scrawnier even a few years ago. He cuts a much finer figure these days.

  126. Good point Khalifa – It may be smoke and mirrors time with SAF. Man U has adopted Arsenal’s policy of only buying younger players who would have a potential resale value – like Ronaldo. Difference is they can buy more expensive youngsters than us.

  127. If Robin goes to the Big Mancs and plays with Rooney he will probably go bald and get fat and fall over when he puts his trousers on. These things can be very infectious.

  128. Bradys right foot

    RVP is effectively transfer listed by mutual consent, I say fuck him. Auction him for as much as possible, get him out of our football club asap. He is a truly wonderful player who has given us his best season, however as the most senior player at the club who saw at first hand the distress caused on and off the field by the losses of Fabregas and Nasri last summer I found the statement he made in early July unforgiveable, he was deliberately undermining Arsenal.

    Our only crime is apparently not giving RVP the sucess he is entitled to or gauranteeing the success he’s entitled to in the future. We have nursed him through years of injuries and made him a millionaire the very least he could have done was to show some respect to the club and leave with a bit of dignity. In an ideal world he goes abroad but I hope it just gets resolved quickly so we can enjoy the first glipmses of Poldi and Giroud without RVPs departure casting a shadow. Im pretty sure well sign two other players before the window closes and im prety sure that RVP will never be the player he could have been.

  129. pedantic george

    What is your current theory Frank.Is Robin still fighting the forces of evil on behalf of his downtrodden underpaid and unappreciated team mates?
    Might prove hard from the other side of the world.Still ,he is a real trouper and will no doubt find a way to save the day.

  130. Fuck me, snarky. Well behind the times are we not? Robin has been an utter cunt for at least 36 hours. Keep up, son.

  131. ” Donozie : “Do Man City really need RVP?”
    WV: “Good question. Man City have the ambition and resources to be the strongest club side in the world. And the best teams need the best players. I don’t think anyone will disagree that Van Persie is an outstanding forward who can only make City more effective.””

    Considering they won the league on goal difference they still need to improve in order to win again. Manure have bought a great player to fill a big need in midfield (Kagawa). Shitty still need to improve. RvP would be an upgrade as they have 2 strikers Tevez and Balotelli that for various reasons cannot be counted on. Balotelli is a great talent but currently he could potentially lose you a big game due to a stupid red card. tevez could go AWOL and the drop of a hat cuz he’s so fricken temperamental – probably ‘roids rage. Robin is a good striker to start in key games and Balotelli can start against lesser lights against whom they still might be able to beat even in the event he is red carded for stupid tackle or getting a 2nd yellow for taking off his shirt.
    i really think Mancini sees value in RvP if it allows him to get rid of his Tevez problem.

  132. Most definately Philmar, Man utd have a club policy of only buying players under the age of 26, after Berbatov’s transfer they mentioned that they regretted going against their policy and paying a huge sum of money for a player without resale value.

    They are just bluffing, when you factor in the wage demands and Rvp’s age then Its hard to see Ferguson paying silly money for the rat.

    Seriously tho, Rvp is just an arrogant piece of shit(look at him all smiles in his first training session), after seeing the training photos on tuesday i managed to muster a lil bit of optimism going on, now i go into the weekend with images of him wearing a man utd jersey in my head, just great!

    To save Wenger the energy, i say Gazidis gets some of the muscle at the club to tie him to the goal posts at the Emirates, throw a couple of rotten tomatoes at him, then leave him there till we return from our trip to Asia – No time for nonsense please, we don’t owe him shit so i am 100% sure that any decision made by the board on this latest saga will be in the best interest of Arsenal, that is the only thing that matters.

  133. “If Robin goes to the Big Mancs and plays with Rooney he will probably go bald and get fat and fall over when he puts his trousers on. These things can be very infectious.”

    Maybe he’ll catch Fletcher’s arse disease and take Owen Haregreave’s sick bed. Or maybe he’ll take Berbatov’s role as overpaid expensive striker that never gets an important game.

    But I don’t think Manure will take a chance on RvP cuz of his age (they only buy youngsters now) and his hsitory of injuries (last guy they bought who wasn’t a youngster was hargreaves). SAF out of boredom and obligation to to media work probably just says random shit to the media some times and then sits back and chuckles (piss drunk of course) at the twaddle the press comes up with while trying to interpret his “mind games”.

  134. I don’t know why Arsenal don’t bid for Rooney and leak it to the Daily Star. Just for fun. Once the fuss has died down we could leak the fact that AW has accepted a position as Arsenal’s Technical Director and is currently deciding whether we should bid for SAF or Mantovani..sorry Mancini..to work under him as team coach. As a contingency he will continue until 2020 as AFC club manager. Just for laughs of course.

  135. I, like Evil, am not concerned about who he goes to. I don’t like the fact that is around the club and around the players. He is sending a clear message that they are not good enough…for him, mind you. That does not sit well with me.

    Notice that his family have made no more statements? I wonder if they are on board with him,I doubt it. If any player owes the club, it is RVP.

  136. Mind you SAF isn’t too drunk to know that if he can deprive Shitty of RvP and it doesn’t cost too much then it would be worthwhile. It would have to be at a ridiculously low transfer fee so maybe he tried to see if that option was possible. He did get Cantona for a small fee, even a drunk repeats well rewarded behaviours.

  137. Actually the best way to leak this stuff would be to tell Young Mr Grace that it is top secret information.

    ‘On no account have we bid for Rooney, not a chance, we don’t want his sort around here..’
    ‘Who mentioned Rooney, Young Mr Grace?’
    ‘You did, you reporter fellows..didn’t you?’
    ‘Nope’
    ‘Oh lord, I’ve done it again..oh I do wish my old nanny was still around, Get me out of this Chips, old chap. Share my tuck with you…’

  138. I wonder what Shaqeel van Persie would say to his dad the day he sees him playing in sky blue ?

  139. Amal dropped!
    That could be a big moment in the match and the series. Then again, he might be out next over.

    Now that is news.

  140. …!!!!

    Amla.

  141. Fine post YW…great comments all around.

    Nostrathymus says not to worry..DOUBLE still coming to Arsenal!

    I dig all the latest pics on Arsenal.com……good to see Kos, OG, Theo..& that Miquel+Afobe one…

    I’m even getting used to the purple…..the whole collage kind of represents what the club’s going thru…

    viva Arsenal!

  142. OG12…..not too shabby.

  143. Limestonegunner

    This was a bit of black humour–was it Byron who said, if I laugh, it is because I can no longer cry?

    Don’t hit the post on your way out the door, eh?!

    http://www.fitbathatba.com/2012/07/alex-ferguson-thinks-hes-signed-rvp.html

  144. team gb is acually looking good

    far better than the england team at least in possession.

  145. It’s obvious that on such a day even the cricket isn’t going to offer any respite. I really can’t stand those transfer sagas anymore. It seems like we can’t have a summer without them. No matter what happens to our hopefully soon to be ex-captain, I am sure next season there will be another player suddenly deciding that he is too good for us. 31st of August can’t come soon enough.

  146. well i did say in possession 😀

    1-0 to the brazil

  147. well they looked better in possession but now its back to hit and hope.

  148. absolutly no. money is never silverware, but it attracts silverware the reason is that the more you spend the more is your returns. i think wenger should pay his players good money in order to force them to stay with the club for a long period of time.

  149. Danny Rose is shit. How can he get in team GB?

    Oh!! Stuart Pearce. Say no more

  150. Still no Ramsey ~_~

  151. Jack Butland looks a good young keeper.

  152. Garth (who ate all the pies) Crooks and Robbie (Lassie) Savage. What poor employees the BBC have. (I refuse to use the word ‘pundits’ in their case)

  153. Just in to say hello to everyone, specially George and Frank. And if Van Pzersie wants to go then he can fuck off. Loyalty doesn’t exist anymore in the world of football. We’ll get on fine without him;

  154. As long as Brazilians never go extinct i will continue to enjoy football, i joke, i joke! They make it look so easy, Neymar especially(without going to ground) and err Ganso impressed me with his vision and passing BUT his game seems so static, i doubt he would survive in the Epl C!

    Fine performance from Butland, he is already better than Casillas and Buffon combined, i have never seen a better keeper than him in my life, surely he must be worth £20M already, What!? Am just getting a headstart on tomorrow’s comments, trust me you will read this shit somewhere.

  155. Now RVP is going the next big story is Theo.Unbelievabley the club still hasnt had any talks about a new contract with 3 weeks to go.What exactly does Ivan Gazidis do?Just give him the £130k a week we were going to give RVP and he will sign it.If not he’s a gonna not a Gooner

  156. pedantic george

    Yeah Northbank1969!
    Have you got an internet connection yet?

  157. FFFP has not seemed to scare the big spenders. Makes you wonder if they are just thinking, nahhhh you wont kick us out, we got Balotelli, n Yaya n Silva….

    Well, aside from all that, its evident that we need to make a marquee signing. Whether RVP goes or not… If we make it, he stays, if we dont, we have to make it as he is gone.

    My gut is that Hulk of Brazil was the man for a team like Arsenal tonight. Hard working, looks for intelligent and quick pass, strong powerful forward, technique… etc etc Was impressed by him and I cant think of anyone better to come into an attack minded side but with the fight and strength to survive Stoke or wherever…

    Cheers, great posts sorry I just gone and asked for another player yet again!

    Cheers

  158. pedantic george

    For anyone who does not know Chris,click on his name “Northbank1969” and check out his superb artwork

  159. Oops Correction – As long as Brazilian football never go extinct i will continue to enjoy ze beautiful game, i joke, i joke. > This is what i love about football, not transfers, soccernomics, wages or shit like that < – The brazilians make football look so easy, Neymar especially(without going to ground) and err Ganso impressed me with his vision and passing BUT his game seems so static, i doubt he would survive in the Epl C! Ya dig?

    Fine performance from Butland, he is already better than Casillas and Buffon combined, i have never seen a better keeper than him in my life, surely he must be worth £20M already, What!? Am just getting a headstart on tomorrow's comments, trust me you will read this shit somewhere.

  160. What Northbank said. Chin up lads.

  161. Limestonegunner

    Rome…

  162. Stuart Pearce is a retard. I have worked with people with special needs, so I know what I am talking about. He doesn’t give a shit about blooding young players, giving them tournament experience, he is just trying to use them for his own ends. Thank fuck he is a crap coach and TeamGB lost tonight. He is everything that is wrong with english coaches. Its all about winning, not developing. And they dont even win under his stewardship. What a fecking joke.

    And its still raining loads, bastard.

  163. Can people stop saying we should just pay players whatever. That is a short term solution. We need to buck the trend, stop caving into players; they demand the excessive wages and trophies, the selfish c*nts. What happened to working for things, doing shit the hard way?

    Today’s players are greedy, selfish, ignorant, molly coddled semi literate babies. Fuck em.

    And stuart Pearce is a twat. Did I mention that?

  164. I hope for once SSN have got it right and Arsenal are holding out for £30m for our ex-captain (just because I say ex, don’t mean I think he’s gone!), as I don’t see anyone paying that for him. Let’s hold him to his contract.

    I am sick of this topic and Stuart pearce is rubbish and annoying. Danny Rose??? hahahaha!

  165. I want red faced to show he can do whatever needs to be done to transform Stoke city/AV,Everton into epl champions.Since the epl started he used money to buy the first seven titles.Wenger interrpted his plan for total domination for a while. Since 2006 he has found it tough now with MC challenging and bullying him in the transfer amrket.Long may it continue.
    As for Wenger e has lost the plot and is waiting for ffp. It will be futile because the big clubs could play hard ball by threatening to form their own super league.The fm must look at the mirrr and admit his buy young and deliver later aint working .
    He better know a lot of time has been wasted.If he can’t deliver in 2013,make it his last .

  166. So i see Park linked to UAE club Al Ain and Chamakh linked to the Russians Rubin Kazan. Also Ollie Giroud says hes taking Henry’s preferred number 12 shirt. Prince Poldi for no9?

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