Arsenal Get Busy On Contracts & AST Survey

A new day, a new contract drama. Actually no drama at all with L’Equipe reporting that Arsenal are looking to extend Laurent Koscielny’s contract to 2017 which is due reward for his improved form last season. His initial campaign was as expected to a certain extent; settling in, a little out of sorts at times with the physicality of the English game and some horrible moments at Anfield and Wembley.

The signing of Per Mertesacker last summer was deemed to be the signal that the French defender would be pushed down the ranks. Instead of whining about a perceived lack of opportunities, Koscielny went from strength to strength. Arguably the decision for Arsène is not which pair to select but who to partner the Frenchman with.

Having spoken to Mikel Arteta as well, the club are making strides to ensure that there is not an annual cycle of key players getting to the point where their contracts run down. As much as it is about ensuring squad strength, the signal is sent of stability, not lurching from crisis to crisis in the media eyes. We may not care particularly what the papers think but there is enough evidence to show the influence that they hold in creating the atmosphere around a club; that power is not just linked to Arsenal.

The contract talks are a rare ray of sunshine in the past few weeks. The Sun is proud of its part in Jack Wilshere being fined by Uefa. It was a daft thing to do on the player’s part, they know betting on matches is prohibited. Even dafter is the newspaper’s admission of its involvement. I would heartily recommend that it is shunned by all Arsenal supporters. Nobody ever admits to buying it anyway.

There was better news for the manager yesterday in the publication of the Arsenal Supporters Trust survey results. I know that many do not like the AST but that is allowing personality clashes to overshadow a lot of the good work that is a done. As a member, I believe it and the AISA (also a member, before you ask) have important functions to fulfil. Meaningful dialogue with the board is a luxury not afforded to many supporters; ask Blackburn Rovers supporter organisations how well they get on with the Venkys.

The survey is contentious in the way it is portrayed in the media. Arsenal supporters en masse are held to share those views; the AST makes it clear how many respondents there were. I understand that discomfort in terms of the playing side and I am not convinced myself that democracy works in that sense; there are such disparate views on the abilities of players that you rarely get consensus of their strengths and weaknesses on a blog, let alone in a supporters organisation.

The manager comes out well, as does Ivan Gazidis to a certain extent. Arsène’s stock is clearly in good stead: 77% want him to remain as Arsenal manager with only 15% against him. I think that reflects pretty much the issue in the wider club context. The dissenters are very much in the minority. The emphasis on attacking football is highly thought of and the appointment of Steve Bould will hopefully bring a fresh pair of eyes to the defence, a noted area of concern in the results.

The board do not come out that well with PHW unsurprisingly viewed as ineffective although Ivan Gazidis is viewed as pretty much doing his job, well to a certain extent. I think it is probably true; the CEO role at the club at the moment is difficult with the instability caused by player egos not helping. That the club has listened to supporters on ticketing to varying degrees underlines the value of AISA and AST on such issues.

Perceived negatively, the survey does not hold many contentious views other than on the subject of Usmanov and Dein. There is a misconception about the latter, that he is still some sort of transfer guru as evidenced by this from the further comments:

I’m not particularly in love with the idea of David Dein returning but someone with his profile and willing to support the manager in closing transfers quickly is required

His status at the club remains undiminished and whilst he is still seen on the football circuit, is his influence over-exaggerated? We don’t know, perhaps he has the ear of many movers and shakers. One aspect I just cannot agree with them is Red & White being offered a board seat; they have shown nothing yet to suggest that they will bring about any changes or improvements. Vague words are not enough. The value of their shareholding is utterly irrelevant as they bought the shares knowing where the land lay in that sense.

The whole document offers a more rounded opinion-set than is reflected in the media; if you disagree with the content, register your views on the club by joining the AST and / or AISA. Don’t sit and complain whilst doing nothing about it.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on July 10, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 367 Comments.

  1. 1st

    How pathetic am I?

  2. From the last thread..

    Frank wins in terms of hilarity (but I’m a long standing fan, so might be a wee bit biased). George comes pretty close though. Dex has been on a roll too.
    All in all, gotta say these past few days on ACLF have a blast to read, which is amazing considering the circumstances.

  3. Good read and in many ways simplifies then content and context of the AST report, while taking into cognisance the relevance of the AISA . The media was found out a long time ago as pertaining ARSENAL FC, we are not bothered about their push for chaos.

  4. Yes, I’ve notcied this website is overun by educated lunatics, and I mean that as a compliment.

  5. Great, well argued post Yogi. Can’t find anything to disagree with, darn.

  6. Business as usual. I noticed on the Guardian football page after an article dissing AW and Arsenal in general is the sheer volume of articulate Arsenal posters, of the educated lunatic variety, pouring scorn on the disinformation in the article. Must be an Arsenal thing.

  7. I see Stan gets a caning, in fact generating greater scepticism than our old Etonian

    Such are the pitfalls of the absent landlord

  8. I genuinely couldn’t understand YW’s reference to Pz and Hunters 1, 2 and 3, or whatever, since Pz’s style was unique, more than once mentioned in vein of “rapier” (ie razor-sharp, lightning-fast thrust). Hunter wielded a big, heavy nail-studded club, smashing walls, furniture, anything.

  9. Limestonegunner

    I joined both earlier this year. Can’t attend meetings, alas, but support the idea of these sort of organizations. UK rules prevent participation in fanshare for supporters abroad, which was disappointing.

  10. I think Yogi was having a laugh ZP.

    He was the artist of dry wit. As you say, the opposite of Hunter.

    I do wonder, in the odd moment, what happens to those who once posted very regularly and who then just vanish.

  11. ZP

    Just joshing. I love the idea that it could have been, an alter-ego of such extremes.

  12. The facts are simple arsenal do discuss contracts with players that they want to stay. this rumour that they are not talking to players until their last 18 months is crap. take flamini he was garbage for 3 seasons apart from a brief run at left back. the club offered him a new contract with a slight raise but he felt he was worth more. so set about proving that in his last year. By that time arsenal.had alex song coming through denilson was showing promise and diaby was there too. So flamini was deemed surplus. hleb he wanted out of london so off to barca he went. now its rvp. you can all see that players are in talks early about their contract (vermaelen djourou and now koscielny and arteta are testimony to that. however look at rvp. with 2 and half years to run on his contract he was out of the team suprisingly replaced due to yet more injuries by a free transfer in chamakh. chamakh come into the team and scored more goals in 3 months than rvp had done in most of his seasons. yet when rvp was fit chamakh was dropped and rvp went on a mission to arsenal they were wrong not to open contract talks with an injury prone player. then when arsenal did approach rvp told them to do one. then there is walcott again injuries and 5 fairly inconsistent seasons has done nothing to warrant the sort of wage rise he is now demanding. im not sure the club even really want him which is why i believe podolski was signed so that gervinho and chamberlain can fight for the right forward slot. lets face it if chamberlain gets a run scores goals and play well theo will not be.missed by arsenal or england. likewise with rvp it took him 142 attempts to score his 30 league goals a worse conversion rate than andy carroll bendtner podolski giroud and carlos vela. i am certain that given 142 chances giroud will score more than 30.

  13. 50 Shades of (Seeing) Red

    Very good post; reflects the true scale of support for Le Boss.

    Must be very disappointing for the mainstream media.

  14. Limestonegunner

    Of course I’d much rather be a season ticket holder, mind you.

  15. This is alway a good sign when a player mans up and plays. this shows his heart. The natives will get restless if Wenger and the boys don’t compete for the title. We need to win!

  16. YW, I still have vague misgivings about the absense of the holder of 30% of our shares (whoever he is) on our Board.You say that Red and White knew the setup before they bought but did they really know that their considerable (and increasing) holding would count for naught in the governance of Arsenal FC?

  17. Dick Swiveller

    On the subject of Dein, the conspiracy theorist in me says that all this shit would stop if he was back at the club, as he’d stop telling his son to sell all our best players in order for Usmanov to capitalise on unrest and take control…pretty sure that’s paranoid rambling but having a snake like Dein on our side was always a good thing and having him back might work to our advantage.

  18. The AST results did show that satisfaction with the club and it’s performance is declining year on year.

    That suggests to me that the Usmanove campaign is having an effect on fans perceptions.

    I was surprised to see, for instance, that I, by voting against giving Red and White a seat on the Board and the return of Dein, was in quite a small minority.


  19. nicky

    The misconception is that they will not be able to bring something new to the playground. Their business model is the antithesis of Arsenal at the moment and under those circumstances, they will be unable to contribute meaningfully.

  20. Conjecture of course …..

    Another scenario which might explain our captains position. Arsenal indicated to him that they did not actually want to extend his contract at this stage. Maybe leave it another year and see what happens. Giroud was purchased before all of this blew up, or at least everyone concerned with his purchase must have known for some weeks that he was coming. Robert Pires suggests that Giroud would be uncomfortable with RvP up front because he cannot see how they would play together. Might also explain why RvP looked drained at the Euros.

    Who knows….

  21. GoonerTillTheDayIDie

    About Dein, i was too young to know what he did as chairman or vice chairman but he seems to say a lot of the right things, and he’s a smart guy, maybe he should replace Glazidis who everyone knows is money motivated.

    Maybe i’m wrong, about all this but don’t we need someone who cares about Arsenal and he seems to fit that type.

  22. Conjecture of course……

    Kees Vos is stringing RvP and AFC along. His company SEG as his agents run RvPs website. Sure RvP is supposed to have the last word, but a Dutch fan I know reckons that Vos has a reputation for being very tricky in Holland. Might explain why AW does not want Vos at the meetings. Though I must admit I cannot for the life of me imagine IG and AW even considering discussing Arsenal strategy and policy in any detail with such a man in the room at the first meeting. Perhaps AW and RvP are at this moment trying to sort out Vos’ mess.

    Who knows……

  23. Not really Cbob.

    The current age is that of winning trophies is all. Interesting the contradiction between that philosophy and that the majority want CL football rather than the FA Cup.

    As for R&W / DD, it’s more the latter than the former I think. Despite everything, he still has a mythical status. As much as anything, it ties into the dismay with KSE.

  24. Don’t have much time for the people who run AST but it is true that if you don’t join you can’t change that or have any have any influence over the direction the organisation takes. Easy to stand on the side jeering.

  25. If DD came back which at this moment is highly unlikely it would be as Chairperson rather than CEO.

  26. pedantic george

    This is the best post I have ever read on ACLF.It was exactly how I felt when I first found the site.

    Fenton | July 10, 2012 at 10:00 am
    Yes, I’ve notcied this website is overun by educated lunatics, and I mean that as a compliment.

  27. The most damning of all comments in the written responses section.

    “The catering at the ground is a disgrace,poor quality,poor service & west end prices.I very reluctantly use these services,whereas they were part of my matchday.”

  28. I am sorry but I count the part of this article relating to the AST poll as a complete waste of time, because the so called “poll result” are of such a small number of Arsenal fans (636 !!!) that it makes it quite clear that anyone could set up a poll of fans on similar questions tomorrow and get a totally different result. It is just silly to just accept “mini polls” as resprenting anything like the true thoughts of the Arsenal fan base.

    For example, you say Arsene Wenger comes out well gaining 77% positive and only 15% against him to stay as manager which means 490 people voted for him and 95 against, ludicrous numbers when you think that our regular home attendance is over 60,000 and it is estimated that worldwide Arsenal have a following of over 1.5 million!! (figures stated by last August!).

    Lets have a proper poll over a limited period wherby all Arsenal fans can vote on all of the major issues (and they are restricted to only one vote) and make sure it is well advertised – then we could say with some credibility what fans think …. wouldn’t it be great, but it couldnt happen as you would get idot sp*rs and chelsea fans voting and creating choas.

    If you reall have to report the fact that AST had a poll of THIER members, but please make sure it is shown clearly how many people it respresents in the article! But I still think it is a waste of time – unless you are desperate to try and support a certain set of ideals that this poll supports – then it would make sense as to why you bother including it in your article.

  29. Frank @ 11:03 – I may be reading that theory wrong (please correct me), but are you suggesting that we are letting our captain (in the top 3 strikers in Europe) run his contract down and become a free agent, just to “se what happens”?

    Like I said, I must have the worng end of the stick, but that is how I read that post. What did you actually mean?

  30. Notoverthehill

    Yogi, it is very essy for anyone with a computer and word programme, to compile a letter, headed or .

    The subject is the most abused, most derided and most maligned in some quarters, Mr Ivan Gazidis, the Chief Executive Officer and Director of Arsenal Holdings Plc
    If I am providing too many leaves and not enough flowers, Yogi, please prune as you see fit!. As I will be flitting between English and Russian keyboards.
    Коммерcант is a Russian publication owned by Mr. Алвшер Бурханович Усманов. Please note the distinction, or Алишер Усманов. Never, ever A. Usmanov. On the issue in hand, the paper printed a press release by Интерфакс, with a very important omission. For the version printed see – Подробнее:
    Интерфакс is a Russian news agency, equivalent to Reuters. Therefore is not responsible for any newspaper report, reproduced in their press releases.
    This is the missing sentence, which I have translated as – the press service of have confirmed the receipt of proposals from and have confirmed that they will not respond by sponsoring the club.
    Here is confirmation from an unimpeachable source, in point of fact distinctly, unfriendly; that Mr Gazidis is not sitting, twiggling his thumbs wondering where to go with new commercial deals.

    Here I hear you cry, who are MegaFon.

    Оператор мобильной и проводной связи
    Акционеры — «АФ телеком холдинг» Алишера Усманова (31,1%), TeliaSonera (43,8%), Altimo (25,1%).
    Финансовые показатели (US GAAP, 2011 г.):
    выручка — 242,6 млрд руб.,
    чистая прибыль — 43,6 млрд руб.
    Отрасль: ИТ и телеком

    To illustrate Mr A.B. Usmanov’s penchant for collecting companies, I will demonstrate his expertise. Others may find a more appropriate word?

    MegaFon was controlled by a Swedish-Finish firm, TeliaSonera. In 2009 this firm wished to consolidate with Altimo. OOO ”АФ Телеком холдинг” Алишера Усманова (31,1%), objected. OSJC is American, meaning for Open Joint Stock Company, the correct terminology in Russian is ОАО “МегаФон”.

    To cut through the labyrinth of negociations, Using ФАС, the Russian Federal Antimonopoly Service, ООО АФ Телеком холдинг at the end of April 2012, gained 50% + 1 vote control over MegaFon. This was confirmed by FAS on the 26th April 2012 here – полностью:

    As one can understand why Mr Gazidis may NOT have been aware of this change of ownership. Further changes have been made since then, leading me through companies owned by Mr A B Usmanov, in Cyprus and the British Virgin Isles. Needless to say, I have been through the “maze”.

  31. It does not matter what the fans think in a sense. The board will have a long thought out strategy (right or wrong as it may be) and should not be changing it on the whims of the fans (me included).

  32. If you read the post properly Kevin, you would see that I am reporting it from the viewpoint of an AST member. Or was it worded so complexly that you could not understand it.

    You will also note the key paragraph which notes it is presented as “Arsenal supporters en masse are held to share those views; the AST makes it clear how many respondents there were.”

    You will also note the comment in the post,

    “The manager comes out well, as does Ivan Gazidis to a certain extent. Arsène’s stock is clearly in good stead: 77% want him to remain as Arsenal manager with only 15% against him. I think that reflects pretty much the issue in the wider club context. The dissenters are very much in the minority.”

    All of which rather undermines your point. A more measured reading of the post instead of hastily reading it in order to pursue your desire to comment, would have made your response rather less pointless.

  33. I don’t have a theory, goonerandy. I am still just presenting different scenarios which might fit some or all of the facts. The first one above does suggest that the club were willing to let RvP run his contract down, yes. Other clubs have done it and AFC might have reasons for doing it. We know that AW can be quite ruthless when he wants to be. In his comments he refers to keeping RvP …doesn’t say how long. Might be just for a season. If we do well next season and I sincerely hope we do, AW may think that RvP will want to continue anyway. If we don’t do well (unthinkable) well..

  34. Frank – I can’t see any reasonable scenario where we would not want to keep him. Anyway, RvP has spoke about the obstacale being “the way forward for the club”. So it is him deciding not to sign, not the other way round.

  35. Frank

    I think the club intends to keep him for the last year unless they get an offer that is daft to refuse. I suspect City will have to pay double the £15m they are currently mooted as being ready to offer if they want to sign him. Arsenal may take the view that keeping him and walking away from £15m and the cost saving of his salary, is well worth it in the event of finishing higher than last season / hampering City’s chances of winning the league.

  36. NOTH

    Can you make your point in a concise paragraph?


  37. But Frank will you concede the most likely scenario os as follows :-

    – Arsenal offer Robin a decent deal.
    – Robin’s agents feels he can get much, much more elsewhere.
    – Arsenal decide they’ll use his services for another year, then let him leave if he wants to.
    – Robin and his agents shit their pants and release a silly statement trying to force a deal.

    Unfortunately, thats the scenario I’d probably bet the house on.

  38. pedantic george

    Are you trying to imply the Arsene is less popular than the results of this limited pool say?
    I think you are .The trouble is that a pool of everyone is likely to show Arsene has even more support than the AST as the “main man” is rather anti Arsene to say the least.

  39. Yogi’s Warrior at 11:48 am

    Hence the Incendiary statement. His agent wants to tip the scales in favour of selling with regards to the cost/value equation. I wish it weren’t as simple but that is the only way I can read it right now.

  40. OK.

    I know you can’t see any scenario in which we would not want to keep him, Goonerandy. Certainly the club seem to want to keep him for one more season. As for after that, they may wish to keep there options open. They have a strategy and maybe RvPs place in it depends upon a number of factors of which we as supporters know nothing. I can see how it would work very well for Arsenal, including the points made by YW at 11.48


    If it was the case I can see that it would piss RvP off especially as he may not get a contract extension at all and it is obvious that Giroud is standing in the wings. I can also see why he would want to make his own announcement and appear to be in control although looking more closely at his website it has got Kees Vos written all over it.

    For example ‘This is the official web page of Robin van Persie, which is owned by Team van Persie, represented by Sports Entertainment Group International B.V, registered at the Chamber of Commerce in Amsterdam under number: 34139303, address Tesselschadestraat 4 – 12, 1054 ET Amsterdam, The Netherlands’


    I stress I have no idea what is happening but I will continue to support RvP and refuse to denigrate him whilst is he is an Arsenal player.

  41. I don’t think most have denigrated him Frank. People are just pissed with him (rightly so IMO) for playing all of this out in public. It is not good for the club, and after all, it is the club we support.

  42. I am with you Markus – the catering is unfit for purpose and it is a while since I have wasted anything on the overpriced crap – Perhaps it would be more fruitful if AST/ASIA concentrated on the hotdog issue ?

  43. pedantic george


  44. YWs comment

    ‘I think the club intends to keep him for the last year unless they get an offer that is daft to refuse. I suspect City will have to pay double the £15m they are currently mooted as being ready to offer if they want to sign him. Arsenal may take the view that keeping him and walking away from £15m and the cost saving of his salary, is well worth it in the event of finishing higher than last season / hampering City’s chances of winning the league’

    I don’t disagree with any of the above. Except that it might be that this has been the club’s strategy all along. They did not intend to offer him an extension and they told him that in the meeting. Maybe they were just prepared to offer him a pay increase for next year for his troubles.

    Actually that scenario fits a lot of the ‘facts’.

  45. Oh FFS Andy! Did you have to bite?

    Well done for dragging us back down this long (winded) and windy (Uppy) path again! 🙂

    I was hoping we’d stick to the matters related to today’s post for at least 5 minutes.

    As much as I think DD can be viewed as the architewct of a lot of the problems we currently see at the club (boardroom level I mean) after first getting into bed with Stan, behind the then board’s back and then when he got caught in flagrante, leaped into the arms of Usmanov, selling his beloved shares in the process, I DO see some benefits (Now at least) in him being allowed back in.

    I would rather him as chairman than PHW. Just saying.


  46. The point is that if that scenario is true then it is not RvP you need to be pissed off with, is it, goonerandy? It was not his actions that precipitated events, it was Arsenal’s actions that did that. We just need him playing brilliantly for another season and then see what happens. Or maybe AW was always prepared to cash him in if the right offer came along. Great player but too much of a risk. The ‘loyalty’ shoe is then on the other foot is it not?

    Who knows..

  47. Markus;

    If you check back, you will find that the lack of quality in terms of pies, more specifically the Balti variety is precisely the main reason RvP is stalling on his new deal.

    We imporved the filling and Robin will accept his crust! 🙂

  48. Give it a fucking rest. BORING as hell, we might as well have GUS back

  49. Very admirable Frank. You’ll forgive me if I don’t share your “support” for our captain. No-one knows what exactly went on between RVP/AW/IG. But the fact he allowed that statement to be released (whether he actually penned it ir not) tells me that he wants out. It’s a pity he didn’t have the guts to simply put in a transfer request (but then of course he would have lost out financially) instead of demeaning the very man who stood behind him during those countless months of injury!!

  50. I am out of here.

  51. Dex – Sorry. 🙂

    Frank – “Except that it might be that this has been the club’s strategy all along. They did not intend to offer him an extension and they told him that in the meeting.”

    If that were the case, it would be bording on neglient. It really would. Why on earth would they not want to offer him a new contract? He is not 36 year old and in the twighlight of his career. He is in his prime.

  52. pedantic george

    Why on earth would Arsenal want to pay RVP more for the last year of his contract ,without getting something in return.That would be the most stupid piece of management I have ever heard of.

  53. Did you actually read what I wrote, JD Gooner? IF that scenario were true, you would still hold that opinion would you? Why?

  54. As a reward for this season, George, and as an incentive to do well. If he does well again he may get more money and an extension. That is standard management practice. Better than offering someone a long term, high priced contract with no incentives, surely?

  55. No but he does have an inconsistent fitness record, and we have no idea what his physiological profile tells the medics at the club, goonerandy. There are many things we don’t know, but that one is plausible.

  56. Frank – You can’t just throw out random made up theories as why RvP should not shoulder any blame here. Here’s one; maybe IG told RvP that they were going to sell the entire first team squad and replace them with some Denilson clones? Not Rvp’s fault, who could blame him for leaving?. That is essentially what you are doing.

    We don’t have many facts, but one that we do have is that he said is that he didn’t agree with the direction of the club. Why there is any need to doubt that he is been sincere about that I have no idea.

    And you are missing the main point in why people are pissed with him. it is the going public which has got people’s goat. He way well have valid reasons for wanting to leave, but it should have been kept in house. His statements make us look unambitious (could it have an affect on potentioal transfer targets as well?) and has therefore damaged the club.

  57. I know you don’t like it, Dexter, but it is continuing. It only came to light a few days ago and it has not ended yet.

  58. Some interesting ideas by YW about AST, Wenger, IG, PHW and the warring owners.
    My take: In this modern era of corporate-speak, disinformation and propaganda are usually dressed up as public relations and communications strategy. We Arsenal supporters are being taught an abject lesson with two self-interested billionaires fight tooth and nail for control of our football club and to win our hearts and minds. Actually one is already in control and the other is seeking to unseat the incumbent.

    It should disturb any honest supporter that David Dein has been a major player in this corporatism of not only AFC but also the EPL with the accompanying contradictions; a top-quality product at the top-end financed in the main by global TV money generated from millions of subscribers (working stiffs like you and me) vs the gradual impoverishment of the lower leagues which, from all reports, are struggling to make ends meet. Millions upon millions of dollars are taken out of football by players, agents, the football bureaucracy etc while the grassroots struggles for the crumbs from the master’s table.

    It seems to me that the old-guard owners of AFC saw the writing on the wall when Dein brought billionaire Kroenke on board. After fighting off the initial Dein-Kroenke alliance, they were forced into making peace with Kroenke when Dein sold out to Usmanov, who they recognized as a more rapacious billionaire given his background. (His apologists, PR and legal people have done a great job to cover him in respectability.) In all of this how can any honest supporter of AFC continue to idealize Dein is beyond me. The man is just as self-interested as the billionaires with whom he has allied himself.

    The interesting thing to me is the old guard, who invested in the club for years without earning a cent, in return for selling out to Kroenke, made a deal with the devil along the lines of the club will be self-sustaining, no dividends to the owners, no lashing of the owners debts onto the back of the club, etc. i.e. a stable well run profitable business from which Kroenke can profit as his shares appreciate in value. From where I sit, it is a deal most of us conscious supporters have bought-into knowing full well well we have no real alternative to the ownership of the football club.

    Thanks to David Dein and the “boots and suits” (jon-jon) in the FA, Premier League have no rules or vision for supporter-owned clubs as in Germany, which btw is the bastion of European capitalism. Instead the Premier League is the playground of money-men whether they be corporate billionaires (Kroenke), hedge-fund types (Glazers), Russian oligarchs, oil-sheiks and even meat processors. Despite the criticisms by Frank etc against the Etonian old-guard, in the lack of any reasonable alternative, for the medium to long-term survival of the football club which I have grown to love, especially under Wenger, this is a pact with the devil that I can live with.

  59. Frank – If that were the case, RvP would have just said that the club have not offered me an extension. I don’t think anybody would hold that against him, yet he would still get the desired outcome as the majoity of fans really would be on the clubs back about that. You are grasping at straws man.

  60. No. You have missed the point entirely, goonerandy. If that scenario is true and it is very plausible, as opposed to the one you just gratuitously presented for effect, then his website message is perfectly understandable, and frankly I would have done the same or worse.

  61. Shotta – Excellent post.

  62. Frank – Read my post above your last one.

    If the club were not offering RvP an extension, has it not occured to you that his statment would have said just that? And he would not have pissed off one single fan. Quite the opposite, they would have been pressuing the board to offer him an extension.

  63. What he put out was a message saying I am very angry about this and I do not intend to extend my contract even if it is offered. In other words I am not going along with the clubs strategy. In fact I am so angry I kind of want out now.

    Lets face it he is hardly going to put out a message saying that the club won’t extend his contract…why, Robin?…Well it transpires that they think that my physiological profile is a bit risky?…..

  64. pedantic george

    Frank .Here is the problem as I see it .
    What you see as “very plausible” most of us think “highly unlikely”

  65. Frank – OK mate.

  66. Interesting that yw thinks the club want to keep rvp for his final year unless a daft offer comes in,personally I think we have to get rid and should have learnt our lessons from recent years with recent captains,none of them seemed quite there mentally but one possible scenario is rvp ditches his agent makes good with arsene and the fans, wins the title and cl with us….no,me neither

  67. pedantic george

    There are regular posters on this site who are not posting because the do not want to be seen to be taking side .On top of that it is becoming incredibly tedious.
    I for one think a line should be drawn under the whole RVP thing ,at least until there are some further developments.

  68. I am increasingly worried about NOTH. I’m sure his posts made sense once – and not so long ago either.

    Ever since Bob lifted a heavy stone on to a wall, his posts have become increasingly bizarre and opaque – first talking about the moments before the universe began and now he’s chuntering away in both Cyrillic and English. I think something might have snapped.

    I blame RVP.

    Oh and the Conservatives obviously.

  69. I understand Eastmond and Watt have been made available for transfer…

  70. In Arsene we crust?

  71. Yogi’s Warrior

    I don’t quite know where a statement like the below can come from –

    “One aspect I just cannot agree with them is Red & White being offered a board seat; they have shown nothing yet to suggest that they will bring about any changes or improvements”

    Err…. They have said they will help fund the club, bring considerable knowledge to help improve the operations of the company…

    Are those enough changes or improvements for you? The AST survey picked out critical points on the club’s lack of transfer funds and poor commercial revenues. Two aspects you would think a billionaire could help with…. maybe? no?

  72. Where’s the proof CP? They have issued a statement that says they will bring funds in but proof of their ‘considerable knowledge to help improve the operations of the company’ as you call it.

    If Usmanov wanted to help, the Megafon deal would have been concluded. So much for that billionaire’s help; he’d rather stroke his ego than do well for Arsenal FC.

  73. pedantic george

    OOU .Arteta running is great to see.

  74. Cheers Al

    Andre Santos seems to be looking for Yossi Benayoun – “Is that Yossi in the bushes? Yossi, where are you?”

  75. OMHS

    Been baking that one up for long?

  76. Arsene Wenger must be at times frustrated with the board, and like a lot of players could also earn more money elsewhere. Yet he choses to stay.


  77. pedantic george

    Has Frank become a Sky Sports source?
    “Matt Fortune ‏@MFworldfootball
    Sky Sports reporting Robin van Persie could u-turn on that ludicrous statement and actually sign a new deal at Arsenal! #AFC”

  78. Yep, George, I didn’t even think of that – I suppose he’ll be one to keep an eye on – injury wise, given his record.

    That’s how desperate I am, YW – reading Andre Santos’ facial expression to see if there’s a hint of sadness at Benayoun not being there. Although maybe it just means that they’re not friends anyway, if he wasn’t aware that Benayoun had left.

  79. Whose ‘afraid to take sides’?

    We are not children here, are we?

    Actually ‘taking sides’ is as futile as it is unnecessary.

    Robin pissed in the well. A fact.

    Robin is on a crusade. An implausible hypothesis.

    Roibin wants more money/success/out. A plausible hypothesis.

    Any argument about the need to revise Arsenal’s pay policy is cheapened by the use of RVP as a standard bearer.

    The ned to address that policy has been discussed many times before and, correct me if I am wrong, has been noted by Gazidis.

    Yes, this is a boring ‘debate’. I actually have no idea what you are trying to achieve, Frank.

  80. I think that the most likely scenario of all though is the second one above. Kees Vos and SEG are a vicious agency and they have screwed up right royally. They clearly have control of Robin’s website and its content. They wrote the message as a standoff. They did it whilst he was on holiday. They have overstretched themselves and underestimated AFC.

    Robin will sign a new contract, apologise to the fans, sack Kees Vos and SEG, and go on to lead us to the EPL and Champions League double next season.

    Robin Van Persie…clickclickclick

  81. Now ffs shall we talk about something else

  82. YW 1:25 pm
    It was either that or Arsene Knows Bread.

  83. pedantic george

    Bob ,I am just stating facts.
    Some ACLF’ers on twitter have told me as much.
    Them keeping out of the bickering does not make them children.
    Sorry I spoke

  84. Great link Al.

    Anything to be read from the players all wearing red armbands?

  85. According to SSN, RvP may yet sign a new deal. According to well-informed sources, there are echoes of the Wayne Rooney incident last year

  86. Ah, no george, I understand.

    However, keeping out of bickering doesn’y make them afraid to post, does it? Just ignore that aprticular ‘debate’.

  87. This for instance….

    Olivier Giroud (French pronunciation: [ɔlivje ʒiʁu]; born 30 September 1986) is a French footballer who plays for English club Arsenal in the Premier League and the French national team.

    Oliveeeeay Jeeerrrrrooooo………clickclickclick

  88. I’m glad you spotted that jonny. What on earth was that all about?

    He clearly thinks it makes sense.

  89. Frank – You are deluded.

    Yes, lets change the subject.

  90. Of course he’ll sack Vos and the Darren Dein will be his agent and everything will be nice and quiet.

  91. And this for instance…..

    Lukas Josef Podolski (German pronunciation: [ˈluːkasz poˈdɔlski]); born Łukasz Jozef Podolski IPA: [ˈwukaʂ poˈdɔlski]) on 4 June 1985) is a German footballer who plays as a forward for Arsenal and for the Germany national team. He is a left footed attacker known for his strong shot, technique and probing attacks from the left side.[4]

    What a trio up front. Fucking amazing season ahead.

  92. Oh sorry…

    Lukas Podolski….clickclickclick

  93. Oh dear don’t spoilt it, YW.

  94. This so-called summer is pissing all over my cricket.

    If we had played and won all 5 ODI’s against Australia we’d have become the first team EVER to be the world number 1 in all three formats of the game (whilst also holding the Ashes and the 20-20 World Cup). Reckon we would have done it too – Australia’s ODI team has looked forlorn and far, far worse than England.

    Amazing depth of quality for the future too.

  95. Jonnyneale, in which part of NOTH’s maze are you lost? If you can tell us, precisely, we can send a helicopter to pick you up.

    Back to RvP, yaaaaawn, why is Arsenal (a) specifically not giving ACLF the salient facts to consider and so make our recommendations on how to proceed (b) generally not asking the opinion of educated lunatics on how to conduct their affairs? Something is wrong. This go it alone attitude, effectively by-passing ACLF is becoming tedious. YW, please have our people send a message to their people: you may get there faster without us, but you won’t go further than you can with us.

    That should put a stop to this nonsense. If we are expected to recommend strategy to management, we need hard information, neatly packaged and summarised.

  96. Fucking rain.

    If RVP is doing a Rooney – is it more money he actually wants? Hard to imagine AW will have much room for manoeuvre there – or that he can promise big signings or a change in style of play.

    Not convinced this is anything more than ‘hot air’ from the SKY sources.

  97. re: those Stewart MacFarlane photos….Francis Coquelin is looking the business. And yeah, Arteta and Diaby are up and running. (And pushing weights!) Scrolling on to other S. MacF photos, and perhaps others more connected to the ALFC can tell me, but why is the ladies team so surprisingly mono-racial?

  98. Yogi nice post. Glad we are offering Kos a new contract. I am not a big Ivan fan. I don’t really think we need David Dein back but I really think the club should have at least one other football person in upper management. Arsene is a brilliant guy but there is no one else who can provide any sort of counterbalance to him regarding football decisions. Can’t prove it, but I suspect even Arsene has to sleep occasionally and get away from football once in a while and with all the hats he wears I can’t imagine that he can give each one as much time as they need.

    Speaking of contracts. What is the status of Theo and Song’s contracts? My understanding is that Theo’ current contract runs out after next season and Song’s the season after. Is that correct?

    I agree with Frank. “Now ffs shall we talk about something else”

  99. Lol Zimp.

    We educated lunatics certainly deserve to be more closely consulted – perhaps we can set-up an organisation to rival AISA –

    ‘Arsenal’s Cultured Lunatic Fans’.

    As for me I think I’m still stuck somewhere near Bob’s smallholding but somewhere (or is it somewhen) in the picoseconds before the dawn of time.

    Bob’s got a helicopter hasn’t he?

  100. A perfect example; are we being expected, using a 2-line hearsay via SSN, to what … produce a half-decent strategy paper by the morning? Is that what the revered role of educated lunatics been reduced to? I’m sorry YW, someone needs to see our position too: CBob has a crisis on his hands from a likely failed potato crop, NOTH is busy cracking the code, the inner workings, inside the very belly of the beast, and cannot just drop everything to attend to petty player contracts; PG has a bloody meerkat to feed or find. The list goes on and on.

  101. Fenton

    “Yes, I’ve notcied this website is overun by educated lunatics, and I mean that as a compliment.”

    Tottaly agree, and im not ashamed to admit that on occasions i do not know what on earth people are on about. The sooner the football comes back and we can argue about football the better. All this business stuff does my head in sometimes 😀

  102. Alright people, arsenal back in training , pictures up on the official website.

  103. I WILL NOT RAISE MY VOICE, but seriously, on one hand young Graeme Cremer (yes, THE Graeme Cremer, yes, the leg spinner, yes, the Zimbabwe national team) has unleashed a wicked googly that not even close up slow motion replays can pick, and this needs my attention; and what, I must wade through player contracts and offers, that I am not shown, and make recommendations? Is this the way the club is run these days?

  104. Thanks for replying Yogi’s Warrior it is appreciated.

    His commercial knowledge is astounding. He has run businesses and is a billionaire as a result. He would be an asset to any board of a business. To assert otherwise is to go against his record of creating successful companies.

    Also, the open letter from Red and White was revealing –

    It stated that they had sought and been refused meetings with Mr Kronke. To have the audacity in light of this to then send a cold call letter asking for sponsorship from Megafon is highly poor commercial etiquette and acumen. If Arsenal want to do business they should perhaps not offend the people they are looking to do business with and build bridges first, that’s not egotistical it’s how you would expect any businessman to behave in a commercial context.


  105. Bob. 😀

  106. I have never enjoyed stick and ball games. Particularly little hard balls.

  107. Never mind the helicopter, I’m sure YW can dredge something up to go rescue Jonny.

  108. Bob, does your helicopter go backwards in time?

  109. Did anyone else get a warm feeling seeing the familiar face of Steve Bould in the Arsenal training photos?
    Agree re the cricket Jonny … have tickets for days 3 and 4 of the Oval Test (taking my son, it is his 21st); fingers are crossed.
    Seriously sad news about Mark Boucher.

  110. Are Nike taking the piss with these new kits? They are horrendous.

  111. PG @12:29, as an avid trekkie I feel I must remind you of an old Vulcan saying: “nothing is impossible no matter how implausible it may seem”. Of course this was Tuvok simply paraphasing Spock, but they are wise words nonetheless

    and Shotta, that was a great post (even if there’s more speculation than I tend to like)

  112. Yes big up for Boucher – he was right at the end of his career which is some crumb of comfort. Better than to happen to him whilst young anyway.

  113. pedantic george

    CP ,I believe Alphonse Gabriel Capone was also a very successful business man.They also looked alike

  114. ” Instead the Premier League is the playground of money-men whether they be corporate billionaires (Kroenke), hedge-fund types (Glazers), Russian oligarchs, oil-sheiks and even meat processors.”

    I suspect casinos aren’t big enough businesses any more for laundering the amount of dirty money generated by the Abromoviches and Usmanoves of the world.

  115. pedantic george

    Philmar,its Kebab shops round our way.

  116. Actually Al Capone – intrepid american entrepeneur – was ultimately not successful; they got him on his unpaid taxes! Or was that Dilinger?

  117. Thanks PedanticGeorge always enjoy your input into a serious debate.

  118. CP

    Nope, SOP for business to send out cold call letters. You’ll find the letter in question was probably sent by the commercial department and has a copy of IGs signature on it.

    But you still have not answered the following:

    If Usmanov wanted to help, the Megafon deal would have been concluded. So much for that billionaire’s help; he’d rather stroke his ego than do well for Arsenal FC.

    That’s the crux of it. No matter how they like to make a play of this, there was much more PR mileage in forcing a deal through – “See how much I care, I’ve ignored the professional discourtesy to seal a deal. The club before my ego” – than by belittling IG. Much more positive energy from that action but in keeping with how R&W act, a snide culture prevailed.

    Further, what experience would R&W bring? Bring back David Dein? He and R&W parted ways because he felt he would hold back any attempt to get on with the board, according to them a couple of years back. The current board would not work with him because of his dealings behind their back so it rather undermines the argument about expertise.

  119. Jonny – of course Bob’s helicopter travels back in time.

    But only as far as the Devonian period.

  120. Alex Ice Cream

    RvP is trying to force a move. I agree with what he says but make no mistake this is nothing to do with “the fans” and everything to do with him. Reading between the lines, after he said that he wasn’t going to sign we tried to keep him for 1 final year and he objected to this. Then behind the club’s back he released his statement. I don’t doubt that Robin disagrees with where the club is going but let’s not be naive and think that money is irrelevant here.

    1 good season in 8, a club that bought him years ago when nobody else was interested, stood by him during 6 injury plagued years and during a rape charge and now he is forcing a move away from the club. His statement could knock millions of what we can get for him now. We made him the player he is today so publically trying to force a move is a disgrace.

    Getting injured playing meaningless friendlies for Holland contributed greatly to our plight now. He would have made a difference in 2008 when we lost the league by 4 points. He could have made a difference in 2006 in the CL but was injured and got crocked again for months in late 2009. It’s not inconceivable that we would have won something had he stayed fit all these years.

    I have really changed my view of him. He’s not like Cesc or even Nasri – we stood by him for years and this is how he repays us. Without us he would not be where he is now and may never had made it.

    Thanks Robin for your contribution – now off you go.

  121. Don Vito must have had a ‘word’ in RVPs ear!! Vermaelen even looks a bit wary in todays training pics when walking beside the Don 😉 (pic 29)

  122. I remember the first time I heard the words;sky sources understand…..,like an eight year old on tizer and blue smarties i was, now I yawn,scratch my nuts and tut(same old shite-different night)

  123. pedantic george

    CP .you constant anti Arsene and Arsenal shit does not qualify as “serious debate” Even if Yogi is humouring you for some strange reason.

  124. pedantic george

    ZimPaul.that his business model is still thriving all over the world suggests that Al Capone was indeed successful.

  125. Don’t doubt the staying power of meat processors Philmar – the Edwards family made their not inconsiderable pile selling substandard meat to schools in Manchester for decades.

    At least the Venky’s business has a certain dignity – feathered albeit

    The problem with all/most of the international plutocracy that has bought up the PL is that it does not appear any of them has created their fortune through technological innovation, or creating and exploiting a market. They don’t make things or build things – they have made their money by getting their hand in the other guy’s pocket.

  126. George – If that is the type of business model we have in mind, maybe Paul Castellano maybe a better example.

  127. Well written my brother.

  128. Good point Yogi’s Warrior but I believe I have answered the following:

    ‘If Usmanov wanted to help, the Megafon deal would have been concluded. So much for that billionaire’s help; he’d rather stroke his ego than do well for Arsenal FC.’

    How can you ask a billionaire and his company to invest when the club or Stan refuse to meet you? A cold call letter is one thing. I do not believe it is fair to ask anyone to swallow their pride and seal a commercial contract. Even if Usmanov did agree to the deal what then? Potentially the club’s biggest commercial sponsor who is still not allowed to meet Stan and potentially others. Come on, that’s a recipe for disaster.

    And there are also too many unknowns for me or anyone else to go into anymore detail on why the deal is/has not been concluded (unless he/she was privy to the communication) i.e. what was the content of the letter? Was the offer in marketing terms fair? How long ago was it sent? Was a follow-up meeting discussed?

    What I can say is that there has been a complete lack of engagement with Red and White Holdings from Arsenal. I do not think anyone would disagree that if Usmanov is prepared to put money into the club via a rights issue it also suggests that he would be open to other commercial opportunities provided he is shown the right level of respect and communication.


  129. pedantic george

    CP writing Agreed? at the end of each post is futile if your argument amounts to a bag of shit.

  130. I thought C’Bob got rid of his helicopter? Didn’t he have an ‘incident’? Now who is going to rescue Jonny!? 😱

  131. Err.. Pedantic George I have never uttered an anti-Arsene line, if you can prove me wrong – you are welcome too. I have never uttered an anti-Arsenal line, questioning how a club is run and wanting Arsenal to make the best decisions by debating them is healthy. Organisations like AST with their member’s survey proved that just this week.

  132. Was that meant to be ironic George?

  133. Oh well that does it then if AIC reckons Robin is trying to force a move, then I am convinced that he will be staying.

  134. 50 Shades of (Seeing) Red

    Irish – yes, Bob got rid of one of his helicopters, the one that was capable of flying into the future.

    Took one look of all the handcarts heading towards Hell and thought better of it.

  135. Well if my arguments are that bad PedanticGeorge maybe you could help everyone by pointing out the weak points in my argument. Can you? After all that is why forums have been created to provide debate to different views and that is why they are all the better for it.

  136. I know RvP said he’s not going to resign but I was thinking this

    All these teams arr saying their not interested outsidr of Manshitty and wht happens if he gets injured then would he have to resign possibly.

    Theo and Alex pleasr resign as both of you are in my top 5 loved players in the world!

  137. pedantic george

    Philmar ,I know .It was and funny as well

  138. pedantic george

    CP I would be repeating what has been said time and again .
    But to be brief


  139. 50 Shades of (Seeing) Red

    It was definitely ironic and I laughed so I guess it was funny as well.

    Glad we’ve got that sorted out.

  140. CP

    What I can say is that there has been a complete lack of engagement with Red and White Holdings from Arsenal.

    Nobody is prepared to argue that point per se but by the same token, we don’t know what conditions R&W put on the rights issue, e.g. mandatory seat on board, final sign-offs on any decisions, etc., so the blame cannot be put on the club until we know all of that information. My own view is that there is a good reason or two why Arsenal won’t meet him and until that is made clear, it is entirely wrong to presume that the club is entirely to blame.

    How can you ask a billionaire and his company to invest when the club or Stan refuse to meet you? A cold call letter is one thing. I do not believe it is fair to ask anyone to swallow their pride and seal a commercial contract. Even if Usmanov did agree to the deal what then? Potentially the club’s biggest commercial sponsor who is still not allowed to meet Stan and potentially others. Come on, that’s a recipe for disaster.

    How many commercial sponsors have met Stan? Very few, I bet.

    The problem is that it smacks of a fit of pique on UAs part. He can’t get his own way with the board so he won’t sign off a deal with the club. Now, as a director, he would have to act in the best interests of the club at all times. If he throws a fit of pique now, what guarantees are there of future conduct?

  141. Irish

    I thought CBob had a flying pasty

  142. CP

    One thing in your argument that is bad is when you say the experience of a successful businessman who made billions.
    Even though AU has now many business ventures he made all those billions by buying the Uzbek gas company when all the USSR crooks torn apart all the asset of the crumbling Soviet Union for the price of a bag of peanuts.
    So no, him being worth billions does not prove that he is a very successful businessman just a crook that managed to stuff some roubles in the right pockets at the right time and I would not want this kind of people have a say in the way my beloved club is run.

  143. George, I think you’re smearing too many people with that large brush. Weren’t Robin Hood, Sir Francis Drake and Queen Victoria essentially gangsters. And who is to say they couldn’t run Arsenal better than a skinflint cheap bastard like Kroenke?

  144. Ok Pedantic George and it is the behaviour of all gangsters to always right open letters to board members…. I think that’s where Capone got it so wrong…

    Yogi’s Warrior – not sure on Dein situation. Remember Dein invited Kroenke to Arsenal. Sure that a compromise could be reached that all parties could be happy with if Arsenal opened up the lines of communication with or without Dein. Remember the AST survey showed fans are unhappy with PHW and the current alienation of R&W. Expertise is not undermined Usmanov runs a huge business and other interests so a wealth of commercial opportunity to tap into.

  145. Everybody … stop, think, breath .. in, out, in again, OK … and out.
    His holy has doth spoke da wisdom and doth told us don’t be naive.
    A collective gasp if you please!

  146. Well said gunnerluc.

  147. That’s quite a large brush YOU’VE got Philmar!!

    So that’s Hood, Drake and Victoria all bad muthas.

  148. Philmar – You do know Robin Hood was a fictional type bloke?

    And I hate to break it to you, but so was King Arthur 😉

  149. Lets drop the Dein idea – it’s old hat and clearly a bad idea cooked up by those who view change as a panacea in their quest for a different time.

    Never go back.

    Unless it’s to rescue me from the wrong side of time in a flying pasty, of course. 🙂

  150. CP

    The key surely is that the board’s stance would be difficult to defend if UA opened this ‘wealth of commercial opportunity’ up now. R&W have played into their hands in that sense by not apparently being co-operative. If you think about it, on what basis could they not engage with a party who has so willing played a strong part in commercially growing the club?

    As it is – and leaving the personalities aside – my main theory is that they won’t engage because the R&W philosophy is fundamentally at odds with the current version of sustainability. Until that version changes, I doubt that there is much scope for an entente cordiale.

  151. “Even though AU has now many business ventures he made all those billions by buying the Uzbek gas company when all the USSR crooks torn apart all the asset of the crumbling Soviet Union for the price of a bag of peanuts.”

    In all fairness to Alisher, as any lunatic who has read Alexander Solzenitsyn can attest to, peanuts were quite rare and treasured in the Soviet Union.

  152. GA

    No Robin Hood did exist, just not as heroically as is portrayed.

  153. “That’s quite a large brush YOU’VE got Philmar!!”

    Not a brush. I’m a spray paint gunner ’til I die

  154. GA – You’ll be claiming Father Xmas doesn’t exist next.

    Where’s the evidence?

    Gotta admire Mr Hood’s PR tho.

  155. CP, re: AU. I don’t know AU and don’t doubt he has money smarts, but billionaires, however and wherever made, are not philanthropists. Therefore, the only premise one can ever start with is: what does he (they) want in return for availing of expertise, contacts, acumen and services to Arsenal? It is a transaction, nothing more. There is something on offer, fine, and there is a price. So, what is the price? I have a funny feeling the current board already know.

  156. I agree with Shotta@12:20!

  157. YW – Oh, as far as I understood there were no historical records of him whatsover. Plenty of mentions in folklore and such like, but no concrete historical evidence.

    Ha, a bit like God 😉

  158. In the battle for ownership and control of Arsenal FC, I am going to choose my “gangsters” (pedantic george at 3:21 pm) very carefully. As gunnerluc at 3:26pm explained, why should I believe the pr and promises of an oligarch who had no qualms about looting the patrimony of his fellow-countryman.

  159. Yogi’s Warrior – thanks some very good points made.

    Until Arsenal come clear on their concerns with R&W we can only guess, but I believe they should do – the current situation helps no one. I think the club is entirely wrong not to make it clear the real reasons for not meeting R&W. Meetings in private or with representatives from Arsenal would help with assurances on future conduct if that is what they are concerned about. That’s how politicians like Hiliary Clinton do it.

    Gunnerluc – Ok history is a bit hazy but didn’t he purchase the gas company legally? There was no duress as far as I am aware, but if you have evidence can you provide a link thanks?

  160. I didn’t think there was any evidence RH existed? The tales are all contradictory and have changed massively over time – certainly not based on one man.

  161. Good morning/afternoon all!

    AIC, whats up? Gadget, nice to see you posting again.

    I am glad we have moved on. At the end of the day, a smooth swift outcome would be great.

    Arsenal will have a great season,
    Our two new players will settle in quickly and tear up the PL
    and Another top player will be coming in.
    Well,thats what I believe.

    y’all be blessed!

  162. I saw a pair of authentic collectible Robin Hood tights on eBay – what more proof do you need?

  163. what about his family legacy; a flour mill company?

  164. Yogi’s Warrior at 3:44 pm – Agreed 100%. It is a battle about the self-sustainability model. That is how RVP became a convenient and explosive tool in the PR battle by Usmanov and his R&W crew.
    No wonder the enemies of self-sustainability, the peddlers of transfer “war-chest” myth are in hogs-heaven after the statement broke. If Suga and Jabba were ever let out of the bin our little brouhaha in recent days would be child’s play.

  165. Oh heck I forgot the ban on the j*** word. I am in moderation.

  166. Anyway, off home. Cycling in a huge storm no less.

    Meh, skin is waterproof.


  167. GA, shame on you.

  168. ” As gunnerluc at 3:26pm explained, why should I believe the pr and promises of an oligarch who had no qualms about looting the patrimony of his fellow-countryman.”

    Definitely food for thought. If we all agree that fleeing a country that provides free health care to it’s citizens is rational behaviour then we should open our arms to Stan K. whose wife’s family business refuses to grant health insurance to about 56% of it’s workers.

    Yeah, another slow footballing day. Diaby looks like a real badass in those photos.

  169. Jonny,
    “I understand Eastmond and Watt have been made available for transfer…”

    Expected and a tad sad for them both.
    Hope they go on to have solid careers

  170. Stop mentioning Diaby – I keep having to quell dreams of a brilliant comeback – a season free from injury.

  171. I forgot to put a smiley face after that comment, GA.

  172. I am sorry but the sustainability point is wrong Yogi’s Warrior.

    Do you want Arsenal to grow? Yes. Do you want investment? Yes. Do you want help with commercial opportunities? Yes. Well Arsenal and R&W should sit down and talk.

    Sustainability is just a smokescreen as in no investment and not ceding power in the boardroom. But Arsenal have already ceded power to Man C, Utd last season in the league etc, why not give the opportunity to talk if we can invest and compete. Sustainability means not investing, Spurs are investing heavily this season, according to reports. Why not turn over every stone to compete at the highest level or choose once again a lack of investment (sorry I mean sustainability).

  173. One could say that people who earn their money with commercial real estate in conjunction with selling low priced crap made in Asian sweatshops to low income people (his wives Walmart money) and killing local small businesses in the process is a bit “Gangster”, too.

  174. Well Frank, I didnt want to chat about the situation because we didnt have any more news.

    However, now we do apparantly and SSN are saying it was all a Rooney style episode.

    Now then

  175. They finally post pics and the players are wearing purple?
    who designed this monstrosity?

    ..ah but seeing our guys is always good….with their new coaches….ah look Nico…& Lansbury…

  176. CP;

    You sound like you have avested interest or something? Your comments sound very familiar to me.

    Sustainability is not a smokescreen, or a ruse and it soesnt mean you cannot grow either.

    It means you spend what you make, as any other club should strive to do.

    No club can live with man City’s spending power, it is a futile and pointless excercise trying.

    That doesnt mean they cannot be beaten ON the pitch.

  177. Dear me the gangster word 🙂

    Would it not be easier to recognise that both Stan and Alisher appear to have come by their substantial fortunes that marks them as opportunists not great builders of businesses or even providing much evidence of being leaders

  178. You missed the point CP:

    As it is – and leaving the personalities aside – my main theory is that they won’t engage because the R&W philosophy is fundamentally at odds with the current version of sustainability

    They both want sustainability but the R&W method of achieving that is different to the way the board are going.

    Sustainability means not investing

    That is definitely a red herring! Sustainability means not borrowing to invest. Now I have never said I disagree with a rights issue, I disagree with one underwritten by R&W – a fundamental reason why KSE didn’t agree to it in the first place I understand.

    But that can only happen if the two sides agreed on which version of sustainability they want in place afterwards.

    Another sticking point is that UA said in a Sunday Times interview that he wants a dividend. I see nothing wrong in that as such, so long as investment is not impaied.However, the current MO is take profits in the share price at the expense of dividends. Even on the simplest of things, the two sides don’t agree.

  179. ZimPaul | July 10, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    Thanks, but Bill Gates is both. But agreed he may would want something in return – you can’t form a legal contract otherwise. That’s why both parties should sit down and discuss if the club is to move forward, which according to the sentiment of the open letter they have not done yet, everything else is conjecture.

  180. TBH, I really dont know what usmanov wantS? A piece of the (future) TV rights pie maybe? But the fact is, SK is the majority shareholder, he is basically the owner and can do what he wants and what he wants tallies with the current board and what they have been doing since the move to the Grove.

    According to IG that will be the case for the next 2 years untill new deals are struck, or unless SK, or the board release more funds.

    But all that is meaningless if the manager thinks things do not need changing all that much in terms of wages, tranfers etc.

    And TBH, I dont think we, or any other non-sugar daddied club ought to be trying to match the fucking obscene wages that the oily mancs n chavs throw at mercenaries, erm I mean players.

  181. Jonny

    The article has just brought the first audible “Fuck me” for the day. And a “Jebus”, thrown in for good measure but with a suitable gap between the two so’s not to be mistaken for a plaintive cry for attention.

  182. Serves me right I suppose, there i was asking Frank to lay off the RvP thing as there was no new news on him…. And NOW I wish Frank was here so i could discuss the new, erm, news on RvP and stop this tedious line about AU and the board.

  183. YW;

    Because it was such a good article, or because it was crackers?

  184. Dex, I really hope not.

  185. when do our Euro boys return to training?
    AA, TR, Szcz, Kos, Poldi, Per, TW14, Ox, OG..

  186. Dexter | July 10, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    My only interest in seeing Arsenal win titles and they are a long way off this transfer window to do that. Please note: that I do not advocate the same levels of investment that Man C have invested in order to compete with them. But we do need investment and more than has been spent.

    Yogi’s Warrior | July 10, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Good points – well made.

    But I am lost as to how engagement on both sides would not help both sides agree on a method of investment and sustainability that they can both be happy with. There are hundreds of financial packages and mechanisms to aid the debate. But it requires discussion not through interviews and open letters but by direct meetings. That has been criminally lacking and needs to happen and quickly before the window shuts.

  187. Ah comeon Goonerandy, i knew it was just a matter of time before you brought the issue of God up, give it a rest man – Surely if theres something that doesn’t exist then its your brain, if it did then probably you leave it in a jar somewhere to hibernate before you post comments on aclf, fuckin shithead.

    Don’t bother using your last brain cell to reply because i’m going to make an effort to avoid reading your BS comments, hope thats clear.

  188. CP

    I could not give you a link but it is in the history books that Boris Yeltsine and his mates divided among themselves all the asset the Soviet Union had, which resulted in all the nouveau riche and the crumbling of Russia. It was all made legally but it is recognised that none of them paid the fair share value of companies.

    So their is a slight chance that he is an honest guy among crooks but I have enough doubts to feel he is no good for our club and by the way the previous owners and Stan are treating him it seems I’m not the only one!

  189. “But I am lost as to how engagement on both sides would not help both sides agree on a method of investment and sustainability that they can both be happy with. There are hundreds of financial packages and mechanisms to aid the debate. But it requires discussion not through interviews and open letters but by direct meetings. That has been criminally lacking and needs to happen and quickly before the window shuts.”

    They do not know how to get out of the position they have manoeuvered themselves into – happens all the time

  190. CP;

    IN your opinion we are a long way off. Right up till last week, the concensus was we were on the ight lines to becoming competitive and now IF the latest on RvP is true, things are again looking up.

    Which begs the question.

    What is your agenda, considering we have not been this strong in terms of the squad for years.

    I do wonder. Hmmmm

  191. “Investment”. Ah…that holy word. I am sure that is what the Man Utd fans were promised by the Glazers, to the tune of a mere 650 million in debt, now down to a mere 450 million. They are so creaking under the burden of the interest payments they are desperate to off-load non-voting stock to some non-suspecting chumps on the NYSE so as to generate cash to pay down the debt. We are speaking of a club on top of the Forbes money list, a vast chasm exist between them and Arsenal in total turnover. Ah…investment that panacea .

  192. Chortle YW, it’s quite something eh?

  193. calm down khalifa…”there’s no compulsion…”

  194. AS I have said, many many times.

    Where were all these philanthropic benefactor billionaies when we were scrabbling around, trying to come up with the readies to build the stadium? The reason we have these much derided commercial deals and naming rights is precisely because not one of these fuckers (SK and AU) fancied getting their hands dirty then, OR more pertinently, sticking those oh so clean and not at all grubby hands in their deep pockets.

  195. Khalifha, I undserstand your frustration but be careful not to undermine what you believe.

  196. CP
    stop trying so hard….you have no new angle that’d sway the educated lunatics here.
    keep working on the AST folks…they might sell you some leverage
    it worked for Dein but did take some time to yield.

  197. The only pockets they are interested in putting their hands in Dexter are yours and mine – was it ever thus

  198. Dex

    It is absolutely fucking mental. Sorry for the language but I’m at a loss. My ghast has been flabbered.

  199. corr: similar thing worked for Dein…

  200. gunnerluc | July 10, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    Ok… don’t you think Stan and previous owners may have concerns other than those doubts of yours. But that doesn’t mean you can bury your head in the sand and hope it goes away. The current situation demands action to counter the concerns.

    anicoll5 | July 10, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    ‘They do not know how to get out of the position they have manoeuvered themselves into – happens all the time’

    Perhaps. All it requires is a change of stance though, i.e. not happy with the current status-quo and show some leadership by meeting. He can’t go on not engaging R&W forever surely. It will come up time and again, everytime he has to deal with Arsenal. Better to make a decision now. I hope.

  201. why do you hope CP?

  202. Dex – I hope you had not actually attempted to read it before you asked that question!

    And I say attempt – I got half way through and gave up, shaking my head in disbelief.

    Over the years, somewhere along the way, UA lost sight of reality.

  203. what’s in it for you?

  204. “Perhaps. All it requires is a change of stance though, i.e. not happy with the current status-quo and show some leadership by meeting. He can’t go on not engaging R&W forever surely. It will come up time and again, everytime he has to deal with Arsenal. Better to make a decision now. I hope.”

    I do not think it requires a change of stance CP – I think it requires AU to decide whether he genuinely wants to acquire a controlling interest in AFC or buy the club outright – in which case he needs to come up with a suitably attractive £ figure that will cut through all this waffle about business models and sustainability. Stan will ride into the sunset, both sides content.

    If you think back to the Glazers takeover of ManYoo there was the equivalent posturing for years between the Uncle Mal, the Coolmore mafia, and the man from Endemol etc

    Total bollocks in the end – it came down to right figure – as almost everything in business does

    And if Alisher does not understand that then he is a rather less capable businessman than he imagines

  205. Yogi;

    Ahh thanks, I have now read it and found it to be pretty on the money i have to say.

    Oh, please excuse me, some nice chap in a crisp white coat has offered to do up my nice shiny new jacket, its a bit annoying however as the gorgeous leather straps do up at the back.

    Fashion eh?

  206. Jonny;

    Thing is, that author (Anne) has been responsible, in the past for some very comprehensive looking stuff about media bias (Barca and others) and has claimed to be a lawyer too.

  207. “Oh, please excuse me, some nice chap in a crisp white coat has offered to do up my nice shiny new jacket, its a bit annoying however as the gorgeous leather straps do up at the back.

    Fashion eh?”

    No pockets ?

  208. Haha! Anicoll5

  209. Aman | July 10, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    To see a club that can move on and leadership over the direction of the club (whatever mix that is).

    anicoll5 | July 10, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    Interesting points. That assumes a. Kroenke will sell. b. Usmanov wants the controlling stake. Assuming both points, Usmanov has said he does not value an Arsenal share above £15,000 I believe. Kroenke if he was to entertain selling, obviously will not sell at that price.

    Meaning we are stuck with this situation. Dear me, if that is the case I hope there are some discussions behind the scenes. Neither party can want this surely.

  210. Dex – the owner of the site and Walter are bright people too but that does not mean they don’t have clouded perspective!

    I’ve been to a game with Tony a lovely guy – if a little eccentric. He’s the chairman of a mailing house and has a published novel and yet he has endorsed that nonsense to go out.

    The Belgian referee, Walter, concurs with it also and is the first person in the comments section.

    Madness from otherwise sane, intelligent people.

    That’s football for ya!


  211. Paulie Walnuts

    Nice to see some Arsenal action at long last with a welcome return to training today.

    How we`ve missed Arsene`s chicken legs, Andre`s junior pot belly & that half a hair out of place on Mikel`s head.

    I was kind of hoping for a barnet swap between Gervinho & Bould as footballers very often try out a new style over the `summer` but alas it hasn`t materialized.

    Also interesting how many faces may be elsewhere come September.

  212. pedantic george

    khalifha ,If you are going to call every Atheist bad names,you are going to be a very busy boy.
    I don’t see anyone calling you a shithead because of your beliefs.

  213. Harry Flowers

    Y’know, god bless Untold Arsenal. Tony’s one of the good guys. However allowing articles such as that to see the light of the day, suggest their batshit looney tunes conspiracy theory filter is no longer working properly (at all). Shame, the very same author has been responsible for some pretty valid and thoroughly researched stuff on the media.

    This RVP business is frying Arsenal supporters brains.


  214. In business everything has its price CP – Stan knows that, Usmanov knows that, I think even you and I probably both know that. IF it is a price that both sides are slightly dissatisfied with then probably it is about right.

    As for breaking the impasse both parties employ teams of associate corporate bag carriers well versed in oiling the wheels of the commercial process, there are too many people who will make money out of a future deal for the process to seize up entirely

  215. Alex Ice Cream

    On Sky its saying that RvP will hold talks with us and even says that he might sign a new deal. Ivan is on holiday so we are waiting for him to get back apparently. Come on Ivan isn’t 2m a year enough to cut short your holiday to sign up Robin?

    Here’s hoping!

  216. I had thought that article was going to go down a fairly sane path of parsing every line of RvPs statement and how it has been overblown by the media…

    then it felt like I stepped off a verbal cliff.

  217. Harry Flowers “This RVP business is frying Arsenal supporters brains.”

    I was just thinking, I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed this level of denial before from anything ever. Crazy.

  218. One thing I am far more more worried about than whether RVP is playing for us next season is what I am going to do the day I see Arteta with a hair out of place.

    I am not sure I am going to be able to deal with the shock.

  219. Aman; The euro boys should be back by next monday, all on holidays right now.

  220. Don’t tell me that he actually IS on holiday, please

  221. pedantic george

    I find that Untold article no less believable that Franks various theories.

  222. Goonerandy, I don’t know what you said to provoke that outburst at 4.39 but whatever it was you just got promoted.
    My enemy’s enemy is my friend as they say. Keep up the good work.

  223. Khalifha – you’d best stop reading my comments too then.

    If god does exist (yours or any of the many others that people all insist is the only true one) then I am confident he, or she, can look after themselves well enough and have thick enough skin to take Andy’s light-hearted jibe in good humour.

    If they don’t then presumably Andy will be on his way to the torments of eternal hell – in which case how about you pray for his soul and turn the other cheek?

  224. GEORGE! Put it down FFS! 🙂

  225. Why will people put credence in SSN and not one of our own?

  226. Steww – Heh.

    We are not enemies mate. We just don’t always agree.

    I am sure I will recover from him not reading my bullshit posts. It may take time, but I will get there.

  227. Spot on Harry @5.37.

  228. On the subject of religion and going back to Higgs Boson – this made me furious and sad in equal measure.

    Goes to show that even if everyone agreed in one religion to start with it would soon splinter into ‘civil war’ as new sub-factions proliferate their own versions of the truth.

  229. Is it ‘cos it’s on the telly, Steww?

  230. is success really the only thing that matters? when is dirty money too dirty for arsenal? for me, walmart stinks but maybe not too much. how dirty is usmanov really? i’ve read some serious allegations (seem to remember that it was somebody who used to work for the FO). he certainly looks capable of freezing han solo…

    sorry if i’m going over old ground.

  231. It will be tough to decide which to side with, the Unified Atheist League, the United Atheist Alliance…. or the Otters of the Allied Atheist Alliance

  232. Jonny, In isolation, maybe it is light hearted but GA does seem to make quite a few of these lighthearted jokes. I think they are unecessary. With that being said, I totally disagree with Khalifha’s reaction.

  233. anicoll5 | July 10, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    Good points on both. Well let’s hope a resolution is found.

  234. Paulie; Funny as fuck post mate!

  235. Steww; It isnt a question of giving creedence to anyone over one of our own. BUT as a so-called ‘news’ outlet, SSN’s raison d’etre is sports news and occasionally they do actually report sports news.

    I am sure if Anne from Untold Arsenal posted on here, you’d think her article today was worth consideration! 🙂

  236. pedantic george

    Jonny,I can’t help myself.Just like you with your fancy words.

  237. Paul – Ah, that all they are mate. Lighhearted little quips. As we have discussed previously I am not religious one bit, but I would never dislike somebody who is, simply because they have faith.

    For example you are man of faith, and we have disagreed about a few amount over the past year, but I still respect your footballing views and like your posts. I would never freak out if somebody posted something to do with their faith. If that is his reaction, he may need to have a look at himself.

    All is good. 🙂

  238. Dex you’re typing pretty well with your arms sewn into a jacket.

  239. some of my best friends are christians. respect them, despite that. as long as they aren’t racists or doomers

  240. CP

    I’m not saying we’re in a ideal situations and I do think it’s tough for us to compete against the super rich but I do not think AU is the solution to our problems but part of the problem.
    I might be wrong but this sugar daddy thing will explode and I don’t want Arsenal to be in the middle of it when it does.

  241. Jonny; 🙂

    havent you seen the fillum, My (Cultured) Left Foot then?

  242. Gunnerluc;

    Precisely man. How many clubs will need to go bust before people see the folly in the short termist, easy fix sugar daddy option? Sure, we might have limited success over a 10+ year period, but if it means the club ceases to exist in 50 what is the fucking point?

  243. Spot on again gunnerluc – we are not in the most favourable of positions but, nonetheless, the solution is not to paddle faster towards the waterfall.

  244. Not likely, but maybe he is Stephen Hawking

  245. Play in the cricket at last and Australia in abject turmoil already 54-4! 😀

  246. Philmar;

    I just crashed me electric wheelchair into my lab assitant after that last remark.

  247. “Sure, we might have limited success over a 10+ year period, but if it means the club ceases to exist in 50 what is the fucking point?”

    True enough but at my age I only need Arsenal and the environment to last another 50 years.

  248. “lab assistant”? Surely you mean 22 year old Filipina ‘nurse’

  249. Haha! True, in my case I’ll be lucky to see past 10! I’m only 36, but smoke |heroin and smack like its going out of fashion.

  250. Dumb-ass Diva bullshit!

    NICKI MINAJ: Caledonian Lawnmower Strop, Latest

    Gotta love Rollins no bullshit attitude –

  251. Well, for the purposes of the tax man, she is my ‘lab assistant’

  252. Dex doesn’t have a Flipino nurse – just a nurse called Philip.

  253. top post.
    well put, cant argue with any of it really..

    CP, i think the topic your discussing has already been answered, but i do think its one or the other regarding the two billionaires, or should i say the billionaire and the one whos just married to one…

    theres no doubt something very icky going on behind the scenes and has been going on for a tad longer than what it should, but neither of them are going to plough anything into this club, stan wont do anything anyway, but neither will usmanov while stan is around..
    stans doing perfectly fine financially without usmanov..we are proof that you can not win anything but still have the turnover of a club who does, and liverpool are proof that you can exploit a certian market and rake in huge sponsers also without being that successful, so stan just wants to be left alone really..

    if usmanov wants to do us a favour then he can take on the stadium debt for me..
    and give us a clear run with our own coin,
    but he wont do that, or anything else regarding investment other than shares, while someone else owns the club, not without a catch..
    and kreonke wont let him do it because it gives him nothing to hide behind anymore..and it dilutes his investment in total cos the other guy has him by the balls over an IOU for the mortgage..

    its fucked mate..they wont work together..its one or the other, that bit about approaching megatron or whatever was probably made up to make IG and TF look a pair of wallies….and even if it wasnt made up maybe no fucker knows usmanov had a stake in it, which is what i thought NOTH was trying to say earlier??

    dont get me wrong i think stans a tosser but that letter wasnt a ‘let me come and help you, letter’, it was a letter calling them out, in front of the fans, in other words ‘i dont want a seat on your board,no, you can shove that up your arse, i want your whole club’…

  254. Right off to Brixton to see Faith No More.

    Yes – again!

  255. While I’m not sure RVP’s actions can be easily defended, my guess is that at least 95% of Arsenal fans would be delighted if he changed his position on extending with us.

    There have been frequent signs of RVP thinking he was more than a player and/or captain. His criticism of our decision not to by Van Der Vaart and his open reaction (however understandable) to Oxlade’s substitution were examples of his ‘independence’. At some point in the discussions, I’m sure there was a comment or two from Gazidis explaining that he’s still just a player and not part of the executive team. This almost certainly didn’t go down well with someone like RVP and prompted his foolish reaction.

    The sad part of this is that to have 6 attacking threats in RVP, Podolski, Giroud, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Gervinho would have scared the living daylights out of most teams as each player brings with him a particular set of skills (to quote Liam Neeson).

    Here’s hoping there’s still to time for all parties to rescue this situation.

  256. JJ;

    If Stan had come in and implemented the strategy we are currently following, from something quite different, then I think he would deserve all the criticism you throw his way.

    However, from what i can tell, he is just carrying on the model the club established before his arrival.

    Now, after what ha[ppened the other day, I won’t you to know i am being sincere when I say.

    Is he doing anything different to what the club was already doing? 🙂

    And please, do not assume I think he is a top geezer, like PHW, I never wanted his sort at the Arsenal!

  257. i am loling all over the place……..this is more like it,
    greatest blog of all

  258. I have no idea of what Usmanov’s motives are and what would happen if he was given a seat on the board or took over ownership. Stan certainly has not done anything positive for us. If AU’s money helped us win a few championships I doubt that any of us would boycott the parades.

  259. ooohhh new away kit out tomorrow………..

  260. ah yes dex my fine fellow.
    we could have stayed at highbury with this model..
    salary cap, sell everyone..
    we would have been fine..
    but we were told we werent going to be fine we were told we needed to move to compete..

    we had financial difficulties to begin with, everyone can understand this and if they dont they need to be kicked in the bollox..
    but our situations changed now..
    all that property we were building, weve sold it
    all those teams we built, we sold them,
    and all the years on those shit sponsers, weve ran them…
    all those shares that were worth a puddle of piss, weve risen them..

    so why does it seem like this club is still stood still and is acting like the club of 5-6 years ago

    thats the problem i got with kse dude..

  261. pedantic george

    JJ ,You confuse me.
    We are in a much better position relative to all clubs bar the financially doped.

  262. Because Jon the business was geared up and the stadium built to “compete” in the market as it was in the early 2000s – we would “compete” financially with clubs who lived on what they earned – as until 2004 and, even allowing for the occasional Jack Walker, all clubs did

    The moment Abramovich’s wheels touched the runway in 2004 it was out of date

  263. where in relation to our league position is our wages?

  264. JJ;

    We are doing what we said we would do, nothing is different from what we were told would happen. Mistakes have been made (commercial deals, wages), but overall, the club IS becoming more competitive and has more funds available. It isnt AFC’s fault the Premier leagie, UEFA and FIFA allow clubs to be run like dick extensions.

    Right up till RvP’s statement, we were on the right track, now we are back to slating a bloke who is only following the model agreed by all at the club, long befoire he arrived.

    You, like Bill, it seems, just want someone, anyone to throw £100m at Wenger.

  265. I guess things are pretty bad when 98 billion pounds in debt looks good! I think Stoke City is solvent and their annual turnover exceeds their wage bill.

  266. things are pretty rosy over at West Brom – only 2 million in debt and their turnover exceeds wage by 22 million a year
    Maybe they can retrofit their team showers

  267. Apparantly Arsenal’s kits will be produced by Adidas from next season. No wonder Nike kept on pumping em out the last 2 seasons or so.

    Got to say, I do love My Adidas. 🙂

  268. How did Fulham get so far in debt? 190 million? What is that Michael Jackson statue made of?

  269. Well I think we’re on the right track. The only way to get rid of an Arab despot is to call in the Yanks and the best way to get rid of a Russian mob boss is to call in another mob boss. So in Stan and Alishar we got the right ingredients.

  270. nah dex

    dont get me wrong..

    i want someone to throw 100 million into the wages..
    well, not exactley 100, becuase its already 120 or something..

    but i want someone to say bollox to the salary cap, they dont work..that idea that IG got about wages and harmony and bunnies and rainbows..
    its not dont exist..
    so someone can take those bunnies and rainbows and shove them up someone elses batty crease..
    and lets start paying our players like players who qualify for cl 16 years on bounce and finish 3rd in PL..the very best ones who score all the goals and make all the assists..
    and stop taking the piss and watching them all walk away..

  271. ” It isnt AFC’s fault the Premier leagie, UEFA and FIFA allow clubs to be run like dick extensions.”

    I really require more help and clarity in making sense of that metaphor.

  272. JJ – a couple of other things changed since we were told the stadium would allow us to compete. Really major things

  273. Philmar;

    Haha! That’s it man, we got all bases covered. Just need a Martian as chief scout and we are smokin’.

  274. ooh i hope the away kit’s not purple….
    but if it’ll lure Jovetic, I’ll take it!

  275. George @ 7:55:

    Are we really better off now? We have to sell more players then we buy just to break even. I don’t know history of the club well but was that really the case in Highbury? I always thought we were considered a wealthy “big club” in the day of DB10 and TH14. Did we really have to sell more players then we bought in the Highbury days. I know that wages have gone up but so has revenue, turnover, we have built and sold all that property and we made some profits on player sales the last few years etc etc. Now we have to wait 2 more years to start renegotiating our contracts and then it will probably take a couple more before we can cycle thru enough of those contracts to really make a difference. I guess patience is a virtue.


    “You, like Bill, it seems, just want someone, anyone to throw £100m at Wenger.”

    At least I am consistent. 😉

  276. I know I am a bit of a socialist and everything, but i just can’t bring myself to wring my hands over our poor players having to scratch a meagre living on £70k+ a week. The fact that other teams pay their players £150k+ on average should be something we rail against, not try and emulate, IMO. I really do not want us to have to do what ManU did with Rooney; throw a £250k a week contract at him just because he threw his dummy out when his advisers told him he could get that at Oily City.

    Players should be paid for achievements, with bigger bonuses too, a bit of motivation wouldnt go amiss.

    But I reiterate, we ARE on the right track, we have signed 2 quality players, with more (apparantly) to come AND if the latest rumblings are to be believed, the captain is not out the door just yet, so things are looking up.

    I find it weird how one public statment, not action, has resulted in people going from being very confident to the depths of despair.

  277. Philmar;

    Sorry man, but I aint sure how to take your question? I am guessing it’s you being funny as fuck again and not a serious Q dude, am I right? 🙂

  278. pedantic george

    JJ what the fuck about wages?
    Our club run a huge staff ,
    What if I asked “where is our net transfer spend in relation to our league position?

    The answer is we are better than our wage position , despite us having twice as many employees

  279. Aman; I have rated Jovetic for a long time now, would seriously be chuffed if we signed him. But given the business already done this summer, cannot see it happening.


    I am not sure we need to sell players to balance the books man, not any more anyway. that is the understanding I have. As I have stated several times previously (TO YOU MOSTLY BTW! 🙂 ) we were ALL made aware things would be tighter than George’s leather lederhosen for a few years and we’d have to curtail the transfers for a bit.

    That was always a temporary measure and it is easing up now. We’ve spent close to (or over depending on what figures you read) £20m already, isn’t that classed as actual spending?

  280. pedantic george

    Bill,Are you better off than your grandparents were?
    Where do you think we would be if we had not moved?
    here is some essential reading for you.please read it and get back to me

  281. i would think every other big club with lots of players and coaches and staff have the same issue george to be honest..

  282. Exaclty Dex! no one had any problems with the direction of the clun until RVP decided that he was going to take IG and the board to task for paying the players minimum wage.

  283. Bradys right foot

    Dein really? A man who has made £70 million off the back of the club and who has played a divisive role on the fringes of the club for years. I suppose if he came back he could help his son move a few more of our players on. Personally I’d welcome Nasri back before Dein.

  284. pedantic george

    No JJ we have a bigger staff because we have a bigger set up an youth development system.A good deal more of our total wage bill has nothing to do with the first team than is the case at other clubs.

  285. Dex:

    I don’t have all the numbers we clearly have a tidy profit starting with the Kolo/Ade sales. We had a profit last season. We all acknowledge that spending money helps you win things so why in the world would we make transfer profits rather then use the money for additional squad strengthening if we didn’t need the money to balance the books? Hopefully we will not make a profit this season because we don’t sell any valuable assets, but Ivan still has plenty of time to find buyers.

  286. George @ 9:05:

    In an obtuse way I am just restating what I have said many times in the past. Its no secret that I have thought for a long time that we have taken the whole frugality thing a bit to far and our ultra risk averse management of club resources has hurt our results. You know that. I certainly don’t believe we should have stayed at Highbury.

  287. george…
    senario..wouldnt it be better to sell arshavin..and give his wage to song?or kozzer?
    id have no problem with kozzer on what arsh was give kozz 100k if could..

    6 years, 100k a week..kick somebody else in the nuts to do it..

    signing podolski and jiroo and taking rvp off the wage bill, aint exactly my idea of a statement of intent..all three of them together for the next 4 years is..theo too..and song..

    so why cant we do it this summer, maybe?

    lets spunk some cash and get that entire first team from last year signed up for another 4 at least..whats wrong with that?? we could reclaim some monies buy cutting our ties with players who we dont need and also the renewels in 2014 will recover a large sum as well..

    i know its wrong,but seeing as though we are a club worth a billion its not like we are doing our bit for world peace..just becuase we are told we are ‘run the right way’ dont mean its wrong what they are doing..
    everyone has complained about the tickets for example..everyone..

    it isnt fair, i agree, this ridiculous financial bubble, but we are already a part of it, as a sport, a league and a club..
    we might as well get used to it, adapt to it and kick on..i think anyway..

    i think we should put some pressure on stan this summer, give him a little nudge..people need it from time to time..

  288. Jonny

    Is the nurse Irish? Phil O’Pino…

  289. pedantic george

    What do you want Stan ,following his nudge ,to do ?

  290. @ Yogi 9:30pm; props, hilarious. Somebody at work sent out a typo-ridden email about the ‘Paraolympics’; maybe Phil will be going? Apologies for not joining in, revision + procrastination.

  291. following his nudge?
    i want to hear him say sorry for being a pudding..

    and then i want him to give the go ahead to gazidis to invest a little more than usual and keep those lads that got us to third from shit last year at this club for not just next year..

    it was going swimmingly as well..
    hasnt been so peachy the last few days though, a finger seems to have slipped up someones bottom and it needs to be urgently pulled out becuase we really dont want last years summer shananigans do we..?

    le ox and gervinho came in quite early really..then it all blew up..

    so no repeats, or it should be someones job this time..

  292. Bill;

    I actually did some research on things like playing trading etc, as well as wages etc. And last Tax year, we had a £15m deficit, compared with a surplus of £6m in 2010. There was also alot of money spent on player registrations (about £20m).

    So, this idea we dont spend anything is rather simplistic man.

  293. playing = player.

  294. It al boils down to a shiney new pot. IF we had managed to win the CC the other year, or won the FA Cup last season, I seriously doubt this would even be on the agenda. Thanks to self interested statments by Usmanov and RvP (until the cure for IBS is verified that is), people are jumping on the bandwagon, that was set up to further the agenda set by the likes of the media, Usmanov and some socalled Gooners.

  295. pedantic george

    So JJ you want Stan to give Ivan the go ahead to spend more than we make? Yes?

  296. jon-jon: You are by your own admission a gambler. In a minute you would gamble the future of AFC. That is the conclusion i have come after years of reading your posts and confirmed at 8:41 pm
    i want someone to throw 100 million into the wages.
    You did put a qualifier though:
    well, not exactley 100, becuase its already 120 or something…
    You should know very well that when a punter is owned by the bookie is just as bad as a crack-head in need of a fix.
    All this reckless populist bullshit about throwing money after players plus their agents and handlers is really irresponsible.
    But it is your nature. What else to say.

  297. players coming in have never been a problem..
    the majority of our first team were transfers..

    its stopping them from leaving where weve become a bit weak..

  298. I actually DID do some research on wages and we spend about £90m on player wages. The £124m figure is for everyone at the club. Not that it matters much (to me, at least) but still, quite significantly less than those around us.

    I swear these things; wages, number of professionals on the books, selection of biscuits and pastries on Doris’ Hostess trolley, etc are getting pulled up time and again, yet they are all red herrings. Why are they important to us? Shouldn’t we be leaving all this stuff to those at the club? I know it’s a bit old hat, but we’re supporters and they are the custodians of the club, that distinction seems to have gone for a burton.

    We aint being mismanaged a la Nottingham Forest, Derby, Portsmouth, West ham, Bolton, Rangers, so i find all the stick the club gets a bit OTT. That is not to say things are not as good as potentially good be, but the signs seem that the club are aware of this and are trying to rectify things.

    That’s not to say we should not question how things are done, or be worried about anything. I have aready said i dont like the idea of either SK or AU at my club, but you have to choose your battles and look at things with some kind of perspective as well as being aware of the agendas of certain others.

    For instance, IF a media outlet goes out of their way to only choose politicians, scientists, analysts etc who are anti-ginger haired people and that is all you hear on that media outlet, you would be forgiven for thinking that being a ginger is a heinous crime against humanity.

    Bit of an extreme analogy and apologies if it offends, but you catch me drift?

  299. JJ;

    If you take those that leave us as a group and not look at them individually, then yes things look like we have a problem holding onto players. It is almost like a catch 22 situation; we want to win things, but players leave because we havent won anything…

    Cesc was always going, nasri, like Ade went for more cash (and not many mourned his leaving), Clichy was here years (see Ade), Kolo was never the same player, Hleb wishes he never left. Not sure there’s anyone else?

    What I am saying is; I don’t buy this thing abiyut us losing players more than other clubs. Nothing surprises me when it comes to what a player will do nowadays, we simply cannot assume they are loyal.

  300. nope..
    george i think he should spend what we make..theres room..

    shotta..youve made some top points today..
    yeah im of the opinion you speculate to accumulate..

    what stans doing is comparible to antiques collecting..

  301. pedantic george

    There is room according to your accountancy JJ.

  302. thats fair enough dex i was just dipping my wick into a few of the points in the post..

    i still think theres evils at this club that could potentially split the club in two..but we’ll see..

  303. JJ;

    Of course, IF it transpires the club/Stanley have been witholding funds that could otherwise be used for player rentention and new acquisitions, then shit dam bollocky fuck nuts I won’t be a happy camper. 🙂

  304. im closer to what you are to be fair george

    youve been telling me for ages that weve been paying debt down quicker..
    PHW recently told you the same thing i was telling you..which is you were wrong,it hasnt been..

    so wheres it been going now george?

  305. when everyone thought we were fucked, PHW also said we had enough money not to worry about CL..
    we were prepared..IG said similar..
    so thats probably in the cash reserve that nobody thought existed..

    and the best thing is we did qualify for CL, and we sold QR..
    and we sold cesc and we raised tickets..

    now pay the players… 😉

  306. Another thing that has a negative affect on the club is when the media constantly tell us that we have ‘missed out’ on this player, that player. It gives the impression no one wants to sign for us, when we havent even been in for that player.

    The fact that the club never discussed transfer spec obviously works in their favour.

    Take for example this Hugo Lloris ‘story’. You can be sure as shite that when he ends up at some club, it will say in almost every report of the transfer that Arsenal have missed out on his signature.

    Sorry, i am on one a bit now 🙂

  307. Some dude last night, think it was Angry of islington blog fella. Said if it wasnt for CL monies, we would be stuffed to the tune of £40m a season. As in have a deficit. Now, i havent seen that verified anywhere else TBH, but those are startling figures, hope they are bullshizen.

  308. Dex @ 10:10. thanks for the effort of doing the research.

    “That is not to say things are not as good as potentially good be, but the signs seem that the club are aware of this and are trying to rectify things.”

    I hope you are right. I want to believe you, I promise.

  309. what is typical dex is the fact the rumours of rvp staying are around the same time as reports as affellay coming..

    it was only a matter of time i suppose..

  310. Bill; 🙂 I believe you bud!

    JJ; Yes Affalay signing to keep RvP happy sounds more plausible than alot of the scenarios I have read over the last few days man. BUT, if he plays like he did at the Euros, then sheeesh, not sure it’s worth it mate!

  311. i dont think any of the dutch were any good..

    and to be even fairer, i never thought much of him anyway, we dont need him i dont think..
    even if the story fits, rvp would still be pissed because affellay wouldnt play regular..

    dont think he’d play at all..

  312. True, I doubt many Dutch players would have got moves to top clubs based on their Euros showings.

    Affalay is definitely not on our radar, IMO.

  313. Pg, nope, Ga just gets on my nerve with his ‘lighthearted’ digs(every 5s), best if he sticks to less offensive jokes or else you’re going to be a very busy boy defending him.

    Paul N, i admire your restraint, unfortunately i don’t have that quality, yet! – still working on it tho, infact just yesterday i spent 1 minute watching JT on the news without spitting at the tv :O, yup.

    Jonnywho? What are you going on about? I don’t even recall mentioning your name, pfft probably looking for more attention, yea i thought so.

    So fuckin tired, been a hectic day so i leave you all with this, spoken like a true fan

    Goodnight aclf, as for you Stew, i hope you dream of John Terry giving you a back massage with Suarez feeding you grapes while o when the spu*s go marching in is playing the background – Wait! I take that back, i won’t wish that on my worst ‘enemy’?

  314. pedantic george

    JJ ,where do you suggest the money is?
    Bear in mind we have audited accounts?
    The debt has been paid down .Just not the long term mortgage loans.
    You are nuts btw.

  315. pedantic george

    you chose the strangest of people to pick fights with

  316. Oh George, it’s not serious man, I think it’s funny TBH.

    You need to lighten up Mr Roger! 🙂

  317. @ shotta | July 10, 2012 at 12:20 pm
    great post, shotta.

    @ Markus | July 10, 2012 at 1:28 pm
    good point.

    @ consolsbob | July 10, 2012 at 1:33 pm
    spot on.

    @ Yogi’s Warrior | July 10, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    According to SSN, RvP may yet sign a new deal. According to well-informed sources, there are echoes of the Wayne Rooney incident last year

    @ gunnerluc – great stuff.

    @ Matt | July 10, 2012 at 5:43 pm
    ha ha

  318. I really hate it when FG teases me like this. Here I am expecting a little something about my posts, you know? Some sugar, but nope, every other fecker bar me.

    That’s it, I’m off.

  319. And special mention to Dexter for his usual high standard of rationality and wit!

    But I don’t agree with you about bringing DD back. I’m with BRF on that one.

  320. Oh, do you really mean that FG? Thanks sooooo much, dont know what to say? 🙂

    As for the DD thing, I dont know if it’s a good idea TBH? Just feel it might be a sort of compromise of sorts. That is in no way forgetting or forgiving his past misdemeanours.

  321. Same objections apply – totally different vision, the two men don’t get along personally. No point.

  322. Nice to see Dex getting some TLC from FunGunner, I think it was sorely needed.

    YW – You had me laughing at ‘ my ghast has been flabbered’ but then you just had to go and ruin it with ” Is the nurse Irish? Phil O’Pino…” I think I deserve a ‘Get Out Of Moderation Free’ card just for that! You never know when they can come in handy, especially when PG is in the mood. Just ask Frank!

  323. WOW!! Are things really this bad for Manure :-

    I think I finally understand why they are trying to get listed on the NYSE and not somewhere closer to home. And they have set up a new company, based in the Cayman Islands no less. Oh I will laugh if they have a shitty season and finish outside the top 4! If things are as bad as they seem, that could send them into a spiral from which it may take years to recover.

  324. A slightly more in-depth article regarding Manures blatant attempt to hide their debt levels from potential investors:-

  325. Their prospectus for the NYSE was signed off by Edward Woodward. Could the listing be a financial late equaliser?

  326. And if so, does it go penalties (luck of the draw)?

  327. Nothing comes free, no free lunch in the system. There is a cost to Arsenal’s model (effectively ceilings on wages and spending, and at some time now or in future, control), as there is a cost to ManU’s and City’s and Chelsea’s (effectively debt exposure and control).

    The real cost is typically hidden.

  328. Khalifha – “Pg, nope, Ga just gets on my nerve with his ‘lighthearted’ digs(every 5s), best if he sticks to less offensive jokes or else you’re going to be a very busy boy defending him.”

    Offence is taken not given. And if a lighthearted comment offends you, maybe you are too easily offended?

    For example, plenty on here suggested that God had much to do with Muamba’s recovery after his his close brush with death. That is their belief. Did I find it offensive as it goes against what I believe? Not even nearly (and I would be amazed if somebody did).

    You can joke about most things, but some seem to think that religion is a tabboo subject for humour. I don’t really see why.

  329. arsenalandrew

    Yes, interesting; I did wonder the moment Manure failed to get out of the CL Group Stages how quickly things might start to unwind for them.

    Although financial set ups are very different, Leeds’ slide was remarkable for the speed at which they spiralled downwards. The Rangers experience shows how quickly the inconceivable becomes distressingly possible for all concerned.

    People often point at Arsenal and say we never really replaced the Invincibles, or at least key members of that side.

    Similar can be said of Man U. The absence of Keene, Ronaldo, Neville still very much felt; the retention of Scholes and Giggs symptomatic of their continuing problems in finding affordable adequate replacements.

    The difference between AFC and them is that the failure to replace their own ‘invincibles’ could end up being catastrophic for them. Certainly attempting to raise funds through the unusual tactic of presenting out of date fiscal reports points to a certain degree of desperation if not yet panic.

  330. I have read one or two articles, good on the whole, pointing to the new Man United, constrained by inability to compete for the best players, Rooney’s outburst as an early symptom of of financial insecurity, and Kagawa as an example of the “new type of value for money ManU player”.

    ManU for the first time in many years now compete with Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool perhaps on a level “mere mortal” field. They have fine players, including youth, but a distant cry from 3 and 4 seasons ago. Rooney obviously, and Nani is great. The defence proved every effective last season and that surprised me. I think they work harder there.

    City will in my view remain the stand-out team, powered by money and wages and top skills. Chelsea face a difficult transition now but continue to purchase vigorously. I see the Chelsea of old (thrilling wins, lots of dismal draws) making a welcome return.

    I can’t help but think Wenger is accelerating a process and that many decisions over the last year or indicate this.

  331. Good links, Irish. They back up what I was saying to Henristic the other day about ManUre’s finances and of course the general point that spending has to be sustainable.

    I also think it gives credence to IG’s recent assertions that the push for FFP came from clubs and that football is going our way, as he puts it. Nobody can afford to get into an “arms race” of spending. Coupled with squad size limits, FFP could have an effect. City bought like mad as a shortcut to top team status, but now the talk is of who they would let go in order to accomodate you know who. (Assuming he goes, which is far from certain.)

  332. Well, Anne was correct in one or two of her assertions. The website did not exist before the message went up. No problem with that, create a website to get a message out. What was peculiar though was the attempt to grow ‘historical’ content as if to give the impression that the site was ‘older’. It is also clear that it is Kees Vos and SEG’s site. I would be very surprised if the message was not created in RvP’s absence. How much input he had who knows.

    Not sure about the rest of the story though.

    One thing is for sure. You may think that he is greedy but if RvP stays then he will have had to fight very very hard to win a deal which is probably worth half to two thirds of the equivalent for Rooney, Adebayor, Terry, Lampard, Nasri etc etc.

  333. There is something odd about that website updating itself! Maybe it’s a cybertronic A.I. site?
    If it is a site run by his agents why would they feel the need to do that?
    Shoddy workmanship. They left RVP wearing an Arsenal kit. What could it all mean?
    Ooo Er. Missus.

  334. Frank;

    When the story ‘broke’ I also questioned the validity of the website as I have never ever before seen it referenced in terms staements, family holiday photos, anything to do with RvP.

    That part of it still made me question the authenticity of the comments. Then someone said it was also on his twitter account/ But again, still inconclusive.

  335. It was, he linked to it on his Twitter account.

    If (and I highly doubt this) the statment had been released without RvP’s consent, he would have come out and said so by now. And fired those that did it. The fact that neither has happened proves that he is pretty much happy with its contents.

  336. Yup – that’s the real kicker – you’d be fucking livid if that had happened to you and you had had no knowledge of it. That would be beyond an outrage for any normal person and probably end up in the courts.

    Not only has RVP not responded he has tacitly approved it’s content through his silence.

    Furthermore the club responded to the release & website telling us that they firmly believe that it’s content and source speak for the player.

    We may feel other people have had a big hand in this but we must also accept that he green-lighted it and has been unwilling to distance himself from any of it.

  337. I also find it a stretch to believe they would have released such an explosive statement without the express permission of their client. My knowledge of these type of contract manoeuvrings is non-existent, so it’s possible. Who knows. The point is we are all groping about in the dark looking for clues, and we can only base our assumptions on the evidence in front of us. Which brings us back to that “statement”.

    After my initial upset I’m holding fire (and judgement).

  338. Look, we all want RVP as a committed player. No doubt.

    He is the one who has raised those doubts, for WHATEVER reason.

    I’m not interested in ‘firing’ at anyone.

    Robin has pissed in the well. Fact.

    He has stood by that. Fact.

    I really don’t care about his reasons, however he views them.

    What he did was wrong.

  339. Andy/Jonny/Harry;

    My point was the fact that the website never existed before, I just found it odd that they would create a website JUST to publish that statement.

    Weird way of doing things all round, if you ask me, which you didnt, so i am glad you asked, if you had, but who knows?

    Good day to you

  340. Sorry don’t misunderstand me. I am giving RvP the benefit of the doubt, because he is an Arsenal player, and I will continue to do so until I learn otherwise. I think that the website is legit. It just gives you an insight into the workings of a stinking sidewinding scumbag agency like SEG and its cunt of a CEO, Kees Vos.

    For what it is worth to you people who seem to get irate about me standing by him until the ‘end’, if he goes I think that it will be to the Little Mancs.

    As for right or wrong of it all? Not sure, depends upon the outcome. At this point in time I can’t judge. Pissing in the well? If it turns out the way some think then I guess he will be pissing about £30m and £70K per week and the possibility of another excellent player joining into the well. I am sure that we can deal with it. If he is the sort of player who goes to the Little Mancs for money then my conscience is clear, I did my best for him, gave him the benefit and his actions will have made it a lot easier for me to deal with.

    But I will cross that bridge if and when I have to, until then.he is an Arsenal player and our captain

  341. This has the smell of Kees Vos telling RvP to get lost whilst he deals with everything in any way he has to. He knows best. I suspect he has control not only of the ‘custom’ built website and its content but also RvPs twitter account etc. RvP remains incommunicado as per instructed.

    To what end we don’t yet know though.

  342. It is all odd. We are certainly learning stuff. Wew should make notes for the next in line, Theo, and the myriad players who will get to this point in the future.

  343. We know Frank. You have made that clear.

    What I am not clear about is why who made the website matters. As has been pointed out, RVP could have made clear that the words were not his. He hasn’t.

    If it was “…the workings of a stinking sidewinding scumbag agency like SEG and its cunt of a CEO, Kees Vos.”, why does RVP employ them. Would you employ people like that or let them anywhere near your career?

  344. Strangely at this point in time I feel that kicking the living shit out of anything or anyone associated with the Little Mancs in any way.

  345. Oh no Frank. That last statement at 10.33 is just preposterous.

    You are not under ‘deep cover’ for Usmanov, by any chance?

  346. I have no idea, Cb, it is the way these things are done. I am not going to single him out as the one player who should be swimming against the tide. If he went it alone he would be almost alone in doing so and I doubt if Arsenal would act honourably towards such a player.

  347. I have it on good authority that RVP is a Scientologist and when the church heard that Wenger and Ivan wernt going to convert they high-jacked RVPs twitter account and created a new website to take down The Arsenal – as per the church’s rules on non members and people against the church……….

  348. Well they all have agents, Cb…and the Little Mancs, PSG etc are about to gobble up everything in sight. Seems that Arsenal produce the tastiest morsels.

  349. I agree Dex – it IS an odd way of doing it but it’s also a moot point.

    I have held back on having a go at RVP throughout – BUT anyone who is leading themselves towards the idea that he might not have had this statement released is entirely deluding themselves.

    The details as to how it was released are utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme – as Bob rightly said, RVP has stood by the words. The fact that he did not write them is also irrelevant – they become your words if you make no effort distance yourself from them.

    It’s what happens next which is the real question.

  350. I don’t think his twitter account was highjacked, I think he has handed everything over to Kees Vos to sort it all out. If he really is going OR if he really wants to stay he probably hoped it would be all over by now.

  351. I don’t think that the statement is his, or that he read it before it went out. As to what he think of it. No idea.

  352. Jonny @ 10:05 am

    Yup. But still, the creeping revisionism of the site is worthy of a remark!

  353. Sort what out, Frank?

    If he really was a man of principle with higher aims than just a fatter salary, surely he would be the man to be in direct control of that, not some “..stinking sidewinding scumbag agency like SEG and its cunt of a CEO, Kees Vos.”

    I mean, you’d trust them to work for the greater good, wouldn’t you?

  354. Fins – only if it is clear – and it frequently hasn’t been, least of all on UA – that it is a small side point, rather than something important behind RVP’s statement.

    Given the chance UA would have us believe he is victim of a conspiracy.

  355. Jonny, my name is not Anne but I cannot deny that there was a smelly concurrence between a statement released on that site in question, most probably by the agency that runs the site, and the statement from Orangina holdings.
    Tis an observation!

  356. pedantic george

    If Robin did not red the statement before it went out he would not be the rat I took him for .He would however be the most stupid person imaginable.
    I visited RVP’s personal site before the statement was announced .
    He announced its launch on twitter about 3 months ago.That’s my recollection anyway

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