Transfer Positives, Did Arsène Really Say That & Arsenal At Euro2012: England Through, Kos Up For France?

Group D

England 1 – 0 Ukraine
France 0 – 2 Sweden

They say that luck in football does not counteract previous events. As an Englishman, I find that hard to believe this morning with quite rightly, Ukranian ire focussed on the officials who should have gone to a high street chain of opticians that I won’t name because they have not paid for advertising space.

John Terry’s back of the net clearance would have changed the game in Donetsk last night but such was the waywardness of their opponents finishing, it is hard to credit that a goal for the hosts would have resulted in anything more than a point for either side.  That would not have changed the pecking order in the group with France being beaten by the Swedes. It was the fastest that Terry has moved all season and even then he was too slow.

As it is England face Italy rather than Spain. Judging by the form displayed by both nations, it will be a battle of attrition with any chance of a spectacle for the neutral relying on England taking the lead. Should Italy score first, there is little evidence to suggest that England with Ashley Young and James Milner filling the wide roles, are capable of providing a genuine goal threat. Noticeably, Steven Gerrard has been more effective at delivering crosses than either of those two.

Theo Walcott and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain’s cameos were ineffectual as England were forced onto the back foot by Ukraine. They had to win, it was imperative that the co-hosts were more dynamic than their opponents who knew a draw would suffice.

France on the other hand blew it. Masters of their own destiny, they now face Spain whose performances are reminiscent of their progress in Euro2008 and South Africa 2010. I expect them to be more clinical as the knockout phases progress. Yann M’vila was by all accounts tidy in possession, rarely ceding the ball cheaply; Olivier Giroud was not as effective, underlining the potential element should he join Arsenal. Philippe Mexes suspension for their Spanish encounter surely offers Laurent Koscielny the chance to show his abilities for Les Bleus which will give that match an interesting Arsenal tinge. It would be due recognition for his club form and continued improvement over the past twelve months or so.

According to reports this morning, Giroud has not signed for the club despite France Football insisting earlier this week that a deal had been concluded. Deputy Dawg, sorry, Deputy President of Montepellier, Laurent Nicollin, observed that the transfer was progressing,

Discussions are happening and going well, as part of the clause set. Things are moving serenely

Serene is rarely a description applied to transfers and little wonder that the tabloids are scratching their heads as to how to work that comment into a frenzy. Luckily for them, Arsenal’s parent club are looking to take Thomas Vermaelen off our hands so they have something to get their teeth into. Except he is third choice so not really back page fodder as such.

Arsène meanwhile has spoken openly about Robin van Persie. Or at least the Italian press claim he has, which in all probability means he said no such thing. But it’s the summer and times are quiet so La Repubblica is as good a source for a quote as any,

He will stay at Arsenal. There is no reason why a top player, a big champion would want a move to Serie A – in terms of the prestige of the league, the level of play or financial considerations. If he moves there, I will buy you a caramello

No doubt some will believe this good news but as with all media outlets, it carries a health warning. La Repubblica is a Roman-based newspaper that likes nothing more than to denigrate the northern cities. It’s editorial direction will publish any story that undermines any misplaced sense of advancement by Juve or the Milanese clubs. Highly likely, Arsène said no such thing although it is a nicely crafted nod and wink to the illicit tapping up of Alex Hleb.

I would agree that van Persie seems unlikely to move to Serie A. Even so, it is complacent to think this means he will not move. Whilst his family may conclude that a transfer to another Premier League club is out of the question, I am sure that the wages on offer from Chelsea and City would make that answer less straightforward than it may seem.

Of course they can demonstrate matching his ambition, winning trophies does that. But is ambition the sole factor or even the most defining? van Persie should he stay, will become an Arsenal legend. That phrase is used too liberally but free of injury, he can certainly challenge the upper echelons of the list of highest scoring players in the club’s history. Currently eighth on the list, by the end of October, I would expect him to be fifth with fourth behind Bastin, Wright and Henry a realistic end of season target. Three more seasons? Why not shoot for the top spot – he is less than a century of goals behind Henry. Moreover he would see the genuine affection for the Frenchman and it would not be unreasonable for him to think it might also apply to himself.

Football is cyclical and with so many factors affecting a season, it is hard for clubs to demonstrate that they can match a player’s ambition at the beginning of a campaign. Signings are a signal of intent and thus far, Arsenal are not doing badly but van Persie has a difficult game to play. Say for example, Arsenal bring M’vila and Giroud to join Podolski whilst releasing a few players. If that does not signal the clubs’ intention to challenge for trophies, it is hard to envisage what will. That is tantamount to the Dutchman saying the squad is not good enough for his liking. The ice underfoot is dangerously thin when a captain makes that inference.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on June 20, 2012, in Arsenal, Euro2012, Football, Premier League, Soccer and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 425 Comments.

  1. I doubt RVP knows much about Giroud and M’villa before these transfer speculations.
    I have always said it, if he doesn’t wanna sign, he should play out his contract, he is a professional (unlike Cesc) and would still be motivated to win things. We could even win something next season and then he would really want to sign. If we don’t, he can leave on a free if he wants. Its a simple thing to me really. RVP IS UNDER A CONTRACT and is 29 years old. We don’t need to sell

  2. It doesn’t sound like Wenger!

  3. Wenger said last season that if we sold Cesc and Nasri, it would be hard to convince people that we are a big club. We sold them but we earned our replutation back slowly. I strongly believe we can win something this season, but RVP is key to that. Players could loose motivation if he leaves. We have a tough 10 opening fixture list, we need players to get their head in the game and mount a serios title challenge from day one.

    RVP should not be slod. Gazidis and Wenger have hinted that he won’t be sold no matter what and I want to believe them.

  4. Jeff I think he will stay but I don’t feel it is as simple as it seems to be for you. If he decides to move for a big salary offer it would be difficult for us to force him to see out his contract. It would be foolish to get into the position we did with Nasri and keeping a player against his will, with one year on his contract, would be ill advised on numerous fronts.
    I doubt it will happen and I imagine RVP would be professional about it anyway but he would still be unhappy and I don’t think it would be good for the rest of the team.
    If he wants to go I would sell (at the right price) and use the money – we must already have a list of targets for this eventuality.

  5. Upper Street Gooner

    Jeff

    Its also a huge risk to play out your contract. The idea is great thinking about a huge signing bonus but any injury and you have zero security. Considering that RVP has had consistent issues bar last year and a young family i cant see him taking that chance.

    I think Robin is intelligent and whilst money will be very important to him i dont think its the overriding thing.

    I think he genuinly wants to believe that we can challenge next year. Some may see that as him being arrogent but he like cesc before him and theo and nasri all called for the club to do more. In essence they were taking the view that we quite clearly needed more last year, you must do somethign proactive this summer to correct that. Its quite common for star players to do such things it happens at every other club, people might not agree with it but there is nothing they can do about it.

    With the moves we are allegedly making i think there is a consensus in opinion that we are moving in the right direction.

  6. I agree with jonny. No single player makes a team, however good he is.
    Apropos of M’Vila and Giroud, I watched the whole France-Sweden game (only TV channel I had access to + England are sooooooo boring). I agree M’Vila impressed – good interceptive anticipation, strength in the tackle and distribution – he even had a couple of pot shots but that was when France were getting desperate. Sweden were deserved winners and Zlatan’s goal was humungous – much as I dislike him. Funnily enough, the local (Danish) TV channel’s adverts for the game went along the lines of

    “France.
    With Benzema. {clip]
    Ribery. [clip]
    And Nasri. [clip]
    Against Sweden.
    With Zlatan. [clip]
    Zlatan [clip]
    And Zlatan [clip]”

    Well, it amused me anyway.
    “Giroud was not as effective” – well, Yogi, he came on with less than 10 minutes to play; his first action was at a corner where he was first to the ball and the header flew marginally wide; 10 mins in which Sweden were taking no prisoners (they even managed a second goal) and the rest of the French team (supply-wise) were pants (to coin a popular phrase at the moment). I have no idea whether he will have the necessary for the PL, and nor does anyone else (same goes for Hazard), only time will tell – but he looks skilful, quick and aware. I get the impression he’s a player who’s improving fast and Arsenal can get him to the next level. BUY.

  7. first things first, YW I’ve got 1st dibs on your writer black box in the next life okay? Your phrasing is so top notch.

    “… Arsenal’s parent club are looking to take Thomas Vermaelen off our hands ….”
    That makes Cesc Ox’s uncle does it?

    ” If he moves there, I will buy you a caramello”….thats so not AW. A lame italian job.

    Roy deserves all the luck he can get. Any honest man with that much experience perpetually underrated by his hype-deluded contrymen who trade in their much vaunted values for a buck 7 times out of 10 in a world so……(oh ffs, its just a game)
    May his luck continue.

    Robin’s going nowhere!

  8. I cannot stand it any longer.Please please please spell “lose” l. o. s. e.” Loose” is a different word with a different meaning (ie ” the horses are loose”!)

  9. I think Robin will sign, what he is seeing from Arsene is bringing in top quality players and getting rid of the deadwood and I am sure that this was the crux of his initial meeting. He does not want to look at the subs bench and see the likes of Chamakh & co waiting to come on. We need to also get M’Vila who will give our defence much needed protection, no matter how good your back line is if they get nil cover from midfield they will be exposed and concede goals and the knock on is that the goalkeeper is forced to make bad decisions. A final note about Robin, if he did not earn another penny from today I am sure that he has enough to tide him other for the rest of his life, he will not leave Arsenal for money!

  10. It amuses me this contract and money thing. Say Robin is offerred £140k a week for three years. That is nearly 22 million Pounds.

    I think that would be enough for me and 99.99% of the planet.

    If someone really wants more than that, they are not a person I would like to know or care about.

  11. And apropos of Arsene’s alleged comments on RvP, I think the ice-cream joke actually lends the story a veneer of authenticity – it’s just the sort of ironic humour I can imagine Arsene indulging in – I can even see that little smile on his face and a twinkle in the eye.
    But maybe I’m way off. You can never tell with Italians – any population that votes for Berlusconi three times has serious problems between the collective ear’oles. (Cue: outraged of Roma).

  12. I clearly disagree with Aman 🙂

  13. … but agree whole-heartedly with consolsbob.

  14. Upper Street Gooner

    consolsbob | June 20, 2012 at 9:49 am

    What if there was one of your peers who wasn’t anywhere near as good as you and they were making 40m over the same time.

    There careers don’t progress like ours into 40s and 50s, this is it for them.

    I agree its allot of money but its very easy to sit there from the outside and pass judgement on such things. Allot like Usmanov making comments about our ownership, probably would be very different if he was actually in the position.

    ”If someone really wants more than that, they are not a person I would like to know or care about.”

    Your going to hate the way football is going as its only going to get worse.

  15. Jonny whilst I agree with you, I don’t think RVP would sulk if he doesn’t want to sign and is not sold. He is an old responsible man, you tell him ” look, you are under a contract and if you really want to leave, play out your last year of it and you can go to whoever you want after a year”. I don’t think he would go on a rampage and embarass himself like Cesc of Nasri, he would play it our.
    If I was RVP, ill think of all my injured years and how Arsenal stood by him and give the club one more year to repay their faith.
    Gazidis has hinted that RVP would play out his contract if he doesn’t sign. Heck we won’t get the proposed £20m transfer fee but we would also save more than £10m from not extending his contract.
    RVP staying is key to showing our ambitions to the other players, fans, potential targets and the rest of the world.

    I’m 99% sure that RVP would be here next season.

  16. dkgooner,
    you’re saying it was Arsene’s evil twin Arson?

  17. I know that USG.

    I don’t have to like it though and I don’t have to go along with it. I can just stop bothering about football.

    As for their careers being over by the time they are 32 or so, well, hw much money has a top player earnt by then in salaries, signing on fees, bonuses, sponsorship and advertising?

    A bit more than you expect to earn in your career if, say, you retire at 65?

  18. Cbob

    You’re wisdom has been sorely missed.

  19. “Showing composure in attacking areas is always the most difficult area of football.”- Roy H.

    viva Wenger

  20. Upper Street Gooner

    Jeff

    But losing him for free isn’t really an option for arsenal or 99% of other clubs.

    Even with Cesc leaving last year and a quite obvious need to replace him we still sold Nasri in a similar position which i think was the right call.

    No player is irreplacable, in the slim chance that i think he does leave we can find a replacement who might not hit the ground running RVp style but could nevertheless still be a 20-30 goal a season striker if we make the right buy which is obviously a risk. Adebayor scored 30 for us 4 years ago.

    80% of me thinks he will stay but if he doesn’t arsenal and our front office need to show they have learnt from last year. A date needs to be set where he must have signed by same with Walcott if that date passes both need to be sold.

    Chels goign for Moses worries me. Thjey are obvioulsy looking for english talent to make the rules and if you looking at a winger and have unlimted dosh why wouldnt you go for theo a player who ko you 2 times in the last 2 years.

  21. If you want to read about the days when football was simpler, a key Arsenal manager was appointed on this day forty six years ago

    http://afchistory.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/bertie-mee-appointed-acting-manager-of-arsenaln-this-day-20th-june-1966/

  22. ..(don’t care, i’m telling)….

    “Yogi, goonerob’s brought the “deadwood” back in the building!!!”…

    “it was @ 9:48 am exactly!”

  23. Upper Street Gooner

    consolsbob | June 20, 2012 at 10:08 am

    No i completely agree but money has a funny way with people.

    Its amazing how many millionaires continue to try and gain more money. I mean its completely ridiculous that there are billionaires in the world but in reality i cant really judge them as i’ve never been in that position.

    People also dont want to feel that they are being duped. The fact is that the market rate for a player of his quality is x amount and why should he pay for less.

    The 2 people sitting over the otherside of the negotiating table to him are most definetly paid the going rates for people of their quality…why shouldnt he get the same?

  24. @USG “You’re going to hate the way football is going as it’s only going to get worse.”
    Room for a whole debate here. I do indeed hate the way football is going. I’m pretty close to not caring anymore – just can’t shake of the old nostalgia, plus I support a team that’s trying to resist the trend. But when you look at it, the industry stinks (I use “industry” deliberately).
    Spain: Barcelona and Real – no other team has a chance because of individual TV contracts.
    France: PSG will win next season – no contest.
    Italy: AC Milan; Inter; Juventus.
    England: Man Utd; Man City; Chelsea. If we can break into this rotation of Premiership wins, it will be remarkable.
    The only sanity still left is in Germany where their rules (at present) forbid one person’s dominant ownership. This is where UEFA should be looking for ideas for reform. Financial Fair Play is too easy to skirt – even I can work out simple ways of doing it. But UEFA being UEFA, nothing will be done – the Bendtner punishment shows clearly what their priorities are.
    But you’re right USG, it’s only going to get worse and I don’t think I can be bothered in the long run. It’s sick – not even a sport anymore.

  25. ..you inspire moi, YW.

  26. Yogi – your spelling went up in flames at 10.09! 😉

    Bob – I used to get upset when they were demanding 50K a week – these days I scarcely notice any more. I have become inured.

    The interesting thing about the £20M in salary you note is that it’s not just how much he would be earning but also how much he might be turning down.

    Madness gone mad.

    Jeff – yeah fair enough – though I still don’t like it! I think he will sign.

    And no! The fact I have repeated this at least 20 times, this so-called summer, is not a sign a nerves..!

  27. just let buy good and mature players so that we can win something this season

  28. I don’t like the concept that signing certain individuals (M’Vila + Giroud in this case) would or could be the defining moment in a player deciding to stay or leave a club. We have signed numerous players during van Persie’s time at the club, some have been a success and others less so.

    There is absolutely no guarantee whatsoever despite the generally euphoric reaction on here that this summer’s business dealings will lead to any improvement on last season. New signings increase the playing options available and of course they improve the squad but to incorporate either of the above two into the starting 11 means a player from last season misses out, some of who played the club out of a very tricky position last September.

    Surely a player believes in the manager’s vision for the club or he doesn’t. If new signings are that crucial then it alludes to the player thinking his current team-mates are not good enough and that trust or belief is broken or non-existent. If we sign both and finish in 5th or whatever next May what then, the demand for more signings to placate player X and Y.

    At this stage I am already tired of this summer’s Arsenal will he won’t he transfer story. I take no real hope from AW’s statement as I am quite sure last summer he unequivocally stated that neither Nasri nor Cesc would leave, of course he is going to.

  29. Upper Street Gooner

    dkgooner | June 20, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Like i’ve said many times before one needs to look to America for guidance in these things.

    They are about 20 years ahead across their 3 major sports in terms of structure and organization.

    Whilst there are some huge differences such as number of leagues and governing bodies the issue is in essence the same. Wage inflation will create an uncompetative product.

    As soon as this starts to ruduce the appetite of tv companies and advertisers the governing bodies and owners will be forced into action.

    There is absolutley no way round the fact that there will be a salary cap era of some sorts. I would imagine this will be more reflective of a baseball soft cap rather than NFL hard cap as like baseball european football has a greater disparity in the have and haves nots and the status quo wont allow a complete realignment.

    People disparage the ffp but they miss the whole point. These rules were never going to alter football in 2014. They will start to make things better and they provide a basis with which to move forward.

    People can never see an end to something but in reality look at the middle eastern situation at the moment. Within the next 2 years if ones pays attention to the rhetoric and language and in politics its all about these 2 things there will be a war between Israel and Iran. The chances of Man City, PSG and Malaga owners not being significantly affected by this is 0%.

    Everything looks great at the moment for some but its amazing how quickly things can change

  30. I wish we had room for V.Moses. He’s got an attacking style thats pretty unique.
    I’d grab him if Theo chose to sign for Juve or our parent club.

  31. I agree with Cb

  32. I do wish people would stop making everything up

  33. The ref needed glasses. This is why we need to have a goal cam in place. Yet the replay of the so called goal were inconculsive so in the NFL the ruling on the field would not be over turned. England had their chances. The guy missed too many gaols. The French stunk the joint out. This is their problem.

  34. Upper Street Gooner

    Aman

    I agree i think Moses really took a step up last year but theo had put 2 back to back seasons where statistically speaking he was in the top 3-4 wingers in the league.

    The statistics dont even do what he could achieve justice though. The guy is the most natural finisher at the club and could easily turn himself into a 15-20 goal player and with similar assists.

    Moses isnt ready to try and reproduce that. Losing Walcott would eb a huge blow. to morale at the club.

    I think Theo stays is RVP stays.

  35. Football is a global sport and none of the US sports are

  36. You mean soccer, right Frank?

  37. I am extremely close to just going and watching Bath City, or even Radstock Town. Just to get back in touch with why I liked football in the first place.
    In order to better understand why I can quite booze, fags and all illegal drugs but still can’t quite Arsenal I’m rereading Fever Pitch and honestly I could quote pages from it every day. Even though it was written years ago and about a time even farther back almost every page could have been written today.

  38. Consolsbob @ 9:49 am

    Perfect!!! I doff my hat for you.

  39. Quit obviously not quite. Although ‘go without’ may have been a little more elegant.

  40. Upper Street Gooner

    Frank

    Your right to a point although its a common misconception amongst British people that Basketball isnt a global sport. Your would be amazed at its popularity world wide and its only goign to grow here after the olympics. Huge effort form the NBA to export it to the uk. Its already amazingly popular in europe.

    There is no exact science to it, but a salary cap will be brought into play. This cap will have to enable european clubs to still remain competative like i said it will be more of soft cap than a hard cap which will allow richer teams to still pay substantially more than poorer teams but its there to elimanate the city’s, psg, malaga on this world artifically getting to the top.

  41. I’m convinced that wenger will have him see out his contract if he doesn’t sign a new one,last summer you get the feeling that nasri was sold by the board not him and maybe with rvp he’s put his foot down this time.Lets just hope there’s not a bloody book about this summer!

  42. out of interest, do the US sports have a relegation system?

    england got lucky, although if its anyone else but terry, they get to it before it crosses the line..

  43. Again, i’ve been so pissed off with the french coach for leaving Kos on the bench.

    Their central defenders are a joke, a very pathetic joke. How in God’s name can you have Koscielny on the bench while two baby giraffes strut around like they know what they are doing. I would rather put a stop sign in the middle of defence than those ‘defenders’, pretty sure mexes must have some secret sex tapes of laurant blanc to blackmail him, why else would he be in the starting 11.

    You have a player that has been one of the most consistent center backs in Europe(Koscielny) on the bench, over a player that would struggle to stop Heskey from winning the golden boot! Mad..ness. This is not me being biased, i just don’t know if laurànt blànc has been visiting the same optician as yesterday’s linesmen or smoking the same stuff as snoop.

    This sums everything up, a quote from a pundit yesterday ” it looks like mexes will be suspended for the quater final clash with spain, good news for France. Koscielny is faster, more determined and a better defender”.

  44. Bollocks to salary caps.

  45. Upper Street Gooner

    Afraid they dont JonJon but luckily enough that doesnt affect a salary cap.

    Rugby in both France and England both operate a salary cap with promotion and relegation. All other rugby nations ahve a salary cap but without relegation

  46. Is that right? Is there a Basketball global body regulating all wages, transfers etc. Is there a wage cap in Basketball world wide? Does everyone run Basketball around the world according to NBA rules?

  47. Upper Street Gooner

    khalifha | June 20, 2012 at 11:12 am

    He picked 2 cbs who had given him 23 games unbeaten. Its very important to have a succesful partnership at the back and thats what that was for him so very few managers would drop him. Even though the case suggested that Kosceillny was better than both.

    If anything Mexes travails is a blessing for Blanc as he can now pick his preffered pairing.

    It wouldnt do much for morale in a squad if you could lose your place despite getting the job done.

    Kosciellny now has his chance to shine. Torres will be in for a difficult evening. I hope the french send the boring spanish packing

  48. There will be no salary cap in football for a million reasons

  49. I put it to you that the NBA work within a closed system within one country

  50. “I don’t like the concept that signing certain individuals (M’Vila + Giroud in this case) would or could be the defining moment in a player deciding to stay or leave a club. We have signed numerous players during van Persie’s time at the club, some have been a success and others less so.” (Steve at 10:34 am)
    – Perfectly put. But it wouldn’t fit into jibber’s narrative and that of many others (media hacks, pundits and average fan) that we need new signings to demonstrate “ambition”.
    To follow their logic, if RVP was the egotist, demanding that the club revolve around him, then he would be perfectly OK with all the attention and money being splurged on him. New signings would be secondary in the scheme of things.

    To paraphrase Frank, it is remarkable how jibber and co make things up.

  51. salary caps are a good idea, although ffp isnt a salary cap and it wont work…

    and it was just the idea of being 20 years ahead in terms of structure and the uncompetitive /competitive thing

    it got me thinking, if theres no chance of relegation, and theres no chance of promotion then even though theres a salary cap it doesnt really make it more competitive does it, nor does it mean the structure is light years ahead..

  52. Upper Street Gooner

    Frank

    What matters is that the NBA who is the major league offers a salary cap they are the ones with the power.

    Sure Turkey, Spain, China can offer huge wages to some players just like in football but in reality the players want to play in the NBA.

    Do you think that players will want to stop playing in europe at the drop of hat. Maybe certainly some of the mid level players who can get a huge amount more in china or brazil in a few years but the top players will stay. These clubs havent got the fanbases to be able to do this consistently. There has always been a migration of older players to lucrative foreign leagues.

    We arent talking about making european football uncompetative here we are talking about putting regualtions in place which saves the competativeness of the sport.

    For as many reasons as there are not to do it there are just as many to do it. Thats the argument Frank nobody is saying its perfect but the fact is there MUST be changes made.

    Just like there will 100% premiere league games played in foreign countries in the next 10 years there will 100% be a salary cap of sorts in european football.

  53. Far from being light years ahead I think it is up an alley

  54. Upper Street Gooner

    Frank

    I put it to you that you havent been following the NBA recently then. European basketball has never been as strong and numeorus top players were quarted by chinese clubs this summer.

  55. not convinced american models in sports are the way to go… look at the number of nba lockouts they have had…

    i really feel as if sports in america is really heavily manipulated.

  56. There will not be a salary cap because it will be impossible to implement.

    PLUS

    Far from being 20 years ahead, the US is several decades behind. Football in England started with a salary cap and players have gradually negotiated and lobbied their way out of it.

  57. Upper Street Gooner

    shotta | June 20, 2012 at 11:21 am

    I think it doesnt fit into your discription that all of our last 3 captains have said the same fooking thing. When Rooney and Ibra came out in the press and asked for their clubs to sign more players did they not mean this. Were they not worried about the competativness of their sides. Do you think cesc sat there last summer and thought yup gervinho and AOC are definelty whats needed to close the gap……no shotta he didnt. He liek many saw that gap getting much wider and he wanted no part of it.

    It is what it is RVP has come out numerous times and stated such things. You choose to not believe it. RVP was yonger and injury prone in previous years not really giving him much leverage.

  58. Oh dear oh dear oh dear

  59. I don’t agree it is behind as such Frank – it has just evolved differently.

    Though you are quite right – it would be impossible to implement here.

  60. It did Jonny, it did indeed.

  61. I agree with Frank’s 11:21 & 11:27

  62. Very insightful Yogi.

    I’d have imagined Koscielny would start against Spain regardless. You can sort of see why Mexes and Rami were chosen for the group games. All very big physical opponents. Be great to see Kos frustrate the spanish tho.

  63. Upper Street Gooner

    Frank

    When one talks about how our great game has changed over the last 20 years with advertisers influencing kick off times and tryign to export the sport to foreign markets etc etc

    I’m afraid to say these things happened in NBA, NFL, MLB in the 70s and 80s.

    Arsenal FC has just gone on our first tour to asia. Many American teams are clamouring to get their regular season games played abroad. This has been happening for 5 years now. NBA and baseball have been going on tours for decades.

    In fact Frank you will find that the Rams who are owned by our very own Stan the Man who are a small market team (get used to those terms) has just agreed to play regualr season games for the next 3 years in London with the options of more. Bare in mind they get 8 home games a year so thats 12.5% of the rams fanbases homes games goign abroad . That was one of Stan the Man first things he did when he took sole ownership last summer.

    In reality its an incredibly intelligent move from the man as the NFL is only going to grow in europe and he has positioned his team maximise its ability to monitise this expansion further.

    How many years before this would be allowed in england? 5 if we are really proactive more likely 10. Seria A already play their charity shield abroad.

    You see the americans understaood a long long long time ago that your not just competing with you teams in your league for revenue streams yoru competing with other sports.

    You sat its to hard to regulate but College football which is americas second most popular sport operate 5 major leagues which all compete with one another and yet they are regulated. You need to open you mind a little as its goign to happen

  64. anyway it looks like carlos vela is going to earn himself a move to spain..
    zenit want arshavin back even though we all want him to come back and sit on our bench just to keep george from being heartbroken
    and those two goals v portugal puts pinky in the market as a 7.5mil 50k a week player

    a nice little return there..with possible sell on clauses with NB and CV due to age..

    probably enough to pay for podolski and jiroo i would have thought..

    maybe the wood is not as dead as what people originally thought..

  65. Now you are just sticking random sentences togethert

  66. most of you probably have seen me reiterate time and again my belief that england will beat spain 1-0 in the quarterfinal. to be honest, i have always felt that italy and england were the two teams most capable of sending spain out. i always felt that spain would beat france because france can’t defend.

    mexes’ suspension gives me hope though. this should mean koscielny starting. let’s hope he grabs his chance with both hands and help send spain out!

  67. USG

    teams like arsenal do play abroad though..
    its called the CL..

    we dont have to go on tour just to play away from home we can do that during the season in competitive matches…

    maybe im not following the discussion properly but what your describing as something the US sports are trying to do, footballs being doing it for 50 years..

  68. USG “Do you think cesc sat there last summer and thought yup gervinho and AOC are definelty whats needed to close the gap……no shotta he didnt. He liek many saw that gap getting much wider and he wanted no part of it.”

    Don’t fool yourself into thinking Cesc had anything but himself in mind last summer.

  69. Upper Street Gooner

    Frank

    Like i said its just one of things that your going to have to deal with as its coming your way.

    Its a rather doomer outlook form you though, always thinking we will be light years behind our rivals.

    I think we have a weaker team but can see that changing, you appear to see us lagging behind for eternity and appear to be happy about it.

    The ”business” of maerican sports has been spoke about for 30 odd years some people over here still whince when they hear those words thats how far behind we are.

    You an Jonny should go check how the ncaa regulate all the other different leagues in college sport though. How teams like Michigan which get 104,000 to every home game get the same number of scholarships as Alppachian State who get 25,000 through their doors.

    Whilst its not a perfect analogy what it demomstrates is that it can happen. Nobody said it will be easy but it will happen as it has to happen

  70. in top flight english football theres 4 trophies you can win..and its almost the same around other countries

    and you play teams from different leagues even foreign, in all but one of them..

    seriously, i have no clue how near or far this is to america, where im sure in a sport such as grid iron theres only one trophy available and you play the same teams all the time

    and im i right in saying if the superbowl is won then your a world champion??
    how does that work out?

    as far as im aware theres no world cup for grid iron, nor baseball, nor basketball..

    come to think of it the comparison is fucking stupid to begin with..

  71. Upper Street Gooner

    JonJon | June 20, 2012 at 11:55 am

    No i mean go and play one of 19 home prem games a year in Dallas or new york not the emiartes.

    Or play our home second leg of the cl quarter final in Shanghei rather than london.

  72. Upper Street Gooner

    JonJon

    There is for baseball and basketball

    Im not asking you to look at our past im asking you to look at our future. Look at the fa cup or whats the other one called now??

    Look how they have regressed in importance due to the cl.

    How will these cups be 10 years from now. How will the impact of this u19 cl affect the domestic cups over here.

    Do you think Stan the man really cares about the tradition of these cups or playing in the preimere leageu against bolton, wigan, blackburn or do you think he cares about hsi long term investment. We constanly deride the itatalian and spanish leagues for their competativeness so why would it be such a shock in 5 years for them to be overwhelmingly in favour of a european super league just like the nfl 32 elite teams all of which have a minimum of 60,000 seater stadium.

    You’ve got to look where its going not where we have been. Like i said we are light eyars behind. Traditions will be sacrificed for revenue….its all about the money baby!!

  73. korihikage,
    England beating Spain 1-0……i’ve never heard you speak of such blasphemy man;
    I suggest you gargle some holy water to rid your spirit of such evil thoughts

    (he was always such a good boy YW, wonder what happened to him overnight..)

  74. yes but its the money thats killing the game..or have we missed that?
    the more money, the more mispending..

    we aint going anywhere with this to be honest mate…
    you admit it needs adressing but now your going off on one saying we need to find ways to make more money..

  75. Random sentences

  76. Upper Street Gooner

    Jonjon

    Its all about making money and the powers that be will do whatever to protect investments.

    Wage inflation is the greatest threat to them so they will do somethign about it.

    Im talking of a european super league as in 10 years or so thats what will be the best money maker. It will look allot more similar to the NFL. If there is european super league which there absolutly will be…………would it no make it eaier to immplement a salary cap??

    Frank

    Its hard to try an teach an old old dog new tricks.

  77. Righty, off to Koln to watch Fatso Jetson. Lovely Desert Rock.

    Laters.

  78. Must go – Frank and I have an expedition to undertake: to go and check how the ncaa regulate all the other different leagues in college sport. It’s a big job but we’ll try to be back in time for the start of the Premiership season – by which time hopefully you’ll have been banned again.

    USG – you really are the verbal equivalent of a man with one foot nailed to the floor – angry, incoherent and walking in circles…

  79. Upper Street Gooner

    Jonny

    You stated that its impossible to regulate with so many different leagues.

    I’ve provided an example where a number of different leagues with huge geographical disparities are regulated by one organization

    I knwo its lunchtime and your probably whipping up a storm for some very satisfied customers but dont make statements if yoru not prepeared to look at the solution. The fact is your knowlesge of sport doesnt allow you comprehend what i say there is a difference betqween that and me talking nonsense. You know nothing about american sports so why are you even comenting, just like Frank.

  80. It is a quality thing for me

  81. Aman, what’s wrong with wanting spain out? 🙂

  82. @ steww | June 20, 2012 at 11:01 am; cbob et al

    I am extremely close to just going and watching Bath City, or even Radstock Town. Just to get back in touch with why I liked football in the first place.

    This is why I enjoy following the Ladies so much, and why I can support England women wholeheartedly. Our (semi)professional women footballers are a bunch of down-to-earth, committed, hardworking girls/women who just love playing football and representing their clubs or country. So refreshing.

    @ Steve | June 20, 2012 at 10:34 am
    Some very good points there. I am reminded of something Arsene often says, which is that a football club works best when everybody concentrates on doing his/her own job.

  83. USG – you really are the verbal equivalent of a man with one foot nailed to the floor – angry, incoherent and walking in circles…

    Hmm, I noticed that too and honestly I just skip over his comments.

  84. FunGunner: indeed.

    don’t miss the game against birmingham on sunday. i reckon they are our biggest rivals now..

  85. For me the only scene of note in yesterday’s match was a great run by Chambo during a late England counter attack that lead him right to the edge of the Ukraine’ penalty box.. Theo was next to him in acres of space and the pass was on, unfortunately Chambo couldn’t get it past the defender. However it was really nice to see the drive those two brought to the game and it seems that they are developing a really good understanding. England needs to give them more time on the pitch together!

  86. FunGunner are their features on Arsenal.com?

  87. pedantic george

    I agree with what Frank says.
    And also anything he has ever said.
    Who gives a fuck what USA ,USA USA, does.? Doesn’t there football league implode every 10 years or so?

  88. @ Evil
    However it was really nice to see the drive those two brought to the game and it seems that they are developing a really good understanding. England needs to give them more time on the pitch together!
    Yeah, agree with that.

    @ korihikage
    Did you see how well Yankey and White played for England Women last Sunday? One more win in their qualifying group and they are in the Euros next year.

  89. @ steww
    No clips of their matches, sadly – I have suggested it to arsenal.com and they said they are considering it – so go on, send them an email. The site has match reports and clips of the players and manager being interviewed. They are occasionally on ESPN and BBC Three or Two, type thing. Little Dutch (Tim Stillman) does great in-depth match reports on Vital Football.

  90. FG

    i only saw the first 55 minutes, but ellen changed the game and scored a sumptuous goal which was unfortunately ruled correctly for offside. didnt see yankey’s freekick, but she is a rejuvenated player after missing out in euro2009.

    and George,

    yup.. like their WPS for example. folded again this year, 2nd time it has happened. how can u ask me to take American sports seriously when it is characterised by doping, player lockouts, and league shutdowns?

    i don’t think you need a salary cap when you have proper FFP in place, not the mickeymouse thing they are trying to pass it off as right now.

    when clubs can only spend REAL, limited money, the wages will go down.

  91. ESPN showing the game against birmingham on sunday.

  92. Upper Street Gooner

    George

    No I’m afraid it doesn’t the NFL continues to grow and grow and grow as it makes mince meat of what was thought to be a saturated domestic market and expands abroad.

    The Premiere League learns an awful lot from the money men at the NFL and i’m afraid that is cast iron certainty.

    It doesnt matter george as you probabaly care little for these things but rest assured the smart people at our club understand exactly these things.

    The implosions you talk of are work stoppages due to the salary cap, this is another thing you will have to get used to. Its a necassary evil to put out a competative product.

    In short the NFL. NBA, MLB got very very tired of clubs struggling financially and of fans complaining about how unfair leagues were.

    In short all of these things will help you but you frank and your chums dont knwo your head from your arse and would argue anything even if it was there to help you.

  93. Is it music thursday all ready. Must have overslept.

  94. steww and FG

    i think the fawsl website has highlights clips of every game..

  95. pedantic george

    I have an idea.
    Why don’t you fuck off to America and bore them shitless , instead of us ?

  96. I agree with George

  97. Jibber can’t be very productive in his job as he spends most of the day posting on here.

  98. Upper Street Gooner

    George

    Like i said i’m there 3 times a month talkign about these exact same things.

    Its why i know that you frank, jonny are completely and utterly out of your depth as per fricking usual.

    Would you like to talk about dead cats or my knackered knees is that more interesting to you george?

  99. Thanks Fun, thanks Kori

  100. Upper Street Gooner

    dupsffokcuf | June 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    I think that could be said for a few of us.

    Luckily enough my job is my hobbie i advise anyone to do the same you will never work a day in your life.

  101. But you don’t ever seem to work Jibber, always on here .

  102. Message to self. “Why am I bothering?”

  103. pedantic george

    The thing is Jibber,you could well be right in what you say.I don’t know because I rarely read you posts.
    I am very interesting and super funny ,also I beat you in every argument we ever have.

    (PS.Now are you getting my point about self praise being no praise at all?)

  104. Agree with the above (and previous) comments about the strengths of M’vila; with what I’ve observed I not sure he’s $20m (or whatever the transfer fee will be) better than Frimpong.

    All this speculative opinion about RvP is tiring. Some of the rationale for stated positions is pure fiction.

    Arsenal will field a stronger team next season (than 2011/12). I’m amazed how Arsenal scored goals while RvP was injured during his earlier seasons.

    Pleased for Hodgson. A man with character and principles. Too good for Liverpool!

  105. pedantic george

    Jibber .You say things yet we cant verify them .
    No surprises there then .
    Me? I that you are a big fat liar.
    I believe you are an unemployable dullard.

  106. It does not matter if he is £20M better than Frimpong. What matters is that he is better than Frimpong. If his signing improves the side, it is a good signing regardless of price as long as it is our budget.

  107. pedantic george

    I think.I missed think.Something Jibber does all the time.

  108. given that it was ‘our worst team in 15 years’, it is quite difficult not to field a better team 🙂

  109. see u didn’t catch my virtual smiley face at the end of my comment kori.
    I care little for Spain. They’ve had their fill.
    Wish the Czechs would win it.

  110. Andy

    If Arsene feels its in the best interest for the club, then I see no need to question the purchase.

    From what I’ve seen of both players, can’t see the need to sign M’vila (unless Frimpong’s injury and recovery is a big question mark)

  111. Billy's Boots

    Bananas.

  112. missed your medication @ 1:26 george, that was pretty ‘arsh…

  113. Arsesession – Frimpong looks a great prospect. But that is all he is at the moment. Frimpong is an established International footballer. It is a no-brainer really.

    Frimpong is not the comparison though; he would be competing with Song/Arteta/Ramsey/Diaby for a starting birth. If he adds to the squad I am more than happy with it.

  114. Aman,

    indeed. if england getting a lucky break last night was justice from 2 years ago (i know, i know that the goal shouldn’t have counted cos it was offside anyway. but who could have known that?), then i am asking myself:

    when are spain and barca going to pay back for everything?

  115. ..too many Frimpongs confuse the righteous andy. 1:37 in today’s book of psalms…

  116. Aman – Heh, quite. I got all Frimponged out.

  117. Seems to me USG is that where most of us and you part company is not in an understanding of where sport is going, it’s in you actually liking that destination.

    If we are to believe you then you are an agent of that ‘Brave New World’, a destroyer of our worlds and therefore to be despised.

    Nothing personal but if you are out there chipping away at the foundations of our youth, history and heritage then you are the enemy. You, Murdoch and all the other corporate suits who value only money under the guise of progress.

  118. kori,
    “when are spain and barca going to pay back for everything?”

    would a double digit recession that forces Messi to relocate to China help?

  119. Billy's Boots

    Has RVP ever actually said he wants the club to demonstrate its ambition, or is this a leading theory as we try to imagine what’s going on in his mind?

    In my view, for a club to try to demonstrate that they have enough ‘ambition’ for a particular player is a futile exercise. The club should act in the best interest of the club (this is not to ignore that a club and player often will have a mutual interest). If the player doesn’t like it, then they can… find another club.

    To me, when a player says he wants the club to be more ambitious, that is code for ‘spend more money, particularly on me’.

  120. Andy

    just saying, from my observations of both players, I don’t see anything from M’vila’s game that Frimpong is missing……other than a cool head.

    You maybe right about international experience, but Koz joined Arsenal with no international experience – just saying.

  121. Billy's Boots

    Jibber, you raise some interesting questions, although the way you present them as *facts* is quite annoying. Tip: if you want to engage in debate, it’s generally a good idea not to be so dogmatic. Why not try seeing other posters’ point of view occasionally? Tends to be more effective than telling them how much better qualified you are than they are.

  122. Arsesession – I don’t mean international games per se. I mean he has lots more top level games under his belt full stop. He has proven he can play consistently at the top level. Frimpong has had a number of first team games simply because of injuries to others.

    Don’t get me wrong, I really like the lok of him and think/hope he will develop into a top player. I think he (and in turn, us) would really benefit from a season long loan this year.

  123. I agree international experience means sweet FA these days. The PL is much more competitive than international football.

  124. By the way Billy, Muppet and I were in that pub after the match, we just didn’t know you were!

  125. Billy's Boots

    Some of the differences that make comparisons between US sports (leave aside collegiate sports, as that is a whole different thing) and European football a minefield:
    – US teams typically only play in their domestic league. Top European clubs are playing in their domestic league plus international competitions.
    – US leagues operate as a cartel with specific measures (eg draft where worst teams get first access to best young players) to maintain competitiveness (or ‘parity’, as the NFL likes to say). In Europe, there is some, but not a lot, or regulation governing the recruitment of young players.
    – In the US, the leagues typically act as a processor of contracts, and agents are paid by players, not by teams. In Europe, it is not uncommon for an agent to be working for both parties in a deal; agents are often paid directly by clubs.
    – In the US, merchandising revenue is shared amongst the teams in the league. Although European clubs will have merchandising deals with kit suppliers, income is not shared with other clubs in their league.

    Jabba, I don’t necessarily disagree with your conclusion about some kind of salary cap, but you rather overstate your case. I disagree with your opinion that the US is thirty years ahead. As Jonny stated, things have evolved differently. In some areas, the US is ahead; in other areas, the European clubs are ahead. I have no doubt that football (aka soccer) will remain the only truly global sport.

  126. Arsesession – “From what I’ve seen of both players, can’t see the need to sign M’vila”

    goonerandy “Frimpong is not the comparison though; he would be competing with Song/Arteta/Ramsey/Diaby”

    Ramsey and Diaby are attack-minded. He would be competing with Coquelin though. I haven’t seen enough of M’Villa to determine if he is better than Coquelin. I’d be surprised if he is 20 million pound better though cos le Coq is quality.

  127. Billy's Boots

    Cbob – ahh! Don’t tell me that! That day was made more miserable by my phone running out of power just as a I arrived at the pub so I couldn’t post and see if anyone was around. Eventually, a rather charming barmaid kindly let me use someone else’s phone, but the word was that you had headed back on your long journey westward. I look forward to buying you a pint next time!

  128. Early next season then Billy.

  129. Interesting post YW. A good take on La Repubblica too, very often people forget that regional papers like to get their digs in where and when they can, this seems like they were just seizing their opportunity.

    USG (or whatever your name is!) – You are harping on about how American sports are run and are saying this is the way to go. Are you for real? Yes, there are obviously positives to be taken but surely not the entire business model? After all this model was developed for a very specific market and as such will not be suited for every and any market you think needs it. If such were true, then the Canadian Football League would be a huge success, no? Or the European version of the NFL? The real reason American clubs play games abroad is to promote their sport as their home market is a limited one. That and the fact that American sports, be they NFL, NBA or Mlb to name the top 3 are not very popular when compared to more global sports such as football or rugby.

    The opposite is also true. English clubs, alongside many of their fellow European clubs, did not go on foreign tours as there was seen to be no need, as the sport was already a global one. We already had the World Cup and regional championships such as the ANC or the Euros. It was not until the advent of the likes of the CL and big tv money did these tours really become necessary, both in terms of sponsorship deals and increasing a clubs status as a brand-name. Yes I am sure a lot of this was developed from watching NFL or other American teams fly around the world and make a lot of money doing so but that does not mean we should adopt their methods entirely. One thing you seem quite happy to ignore is the fact that a lot of these teams are family owned and as such, it is their interest to retain control of expenditure across the league. The reason they do this is so no one team (eg Man City) can go and outspend everyone else and lock up the superbowl for years to come. This may sound good but in reality you end up with a cartel who have the league by the short and curlies, a situation that many believe over the coming years will not end well.

    In the MLB there is no salary cap, instead there is a luxury tax, an arrangement in which teams whose total payroll exceeds a certain figure (determined annually) are taxed on the excess amount. The tax is paid to the league, which then puts the money into its industry-growth fund. Half of this money is used for player benefits, a quarter for funding baseball programs in developing countries and the remaining quarter is put into an industry growth fund.

  130. “You know nothing about US sports” cheeky cunt – do not suppose to tell me what I know and do not know Jabba.

    I’ve followed the NFL since I was 9 years old.

    You know a lot less about me than you think so keep your assumptions to yourself.

    In fact that’s one of your biggest problems – you know a lot less about everything than you believe you do but you lay it down as indisputable ‘fact’.

  131. USG – As Billy’s Boots said, you are just way too dogmatic in putting forth your views on this and any subject you choose to post on. Jonny has stated many times on here that he follows NFL (amongst other sports) and is quite knowledgable on the subject too. The real problem with adopting an American model is the fact that said model does not cross over between different National leagues, with their differing laws and indeed different ideas/attitudes. Hence we have local FA’s, UEFA and then FIFA. Each body has slightly different rules and regulations so as to be able to work effectively( I know! I know! They don’t really but come on!! Gimme a break!)

  132. USG

    The fundamental flaw in your salary cap plan is that it has to be a global salary cap otherwise the product becomes uncompetitive. This is not just one league, it is every league in the world. Good luck on trying to get that one to work.

  133. Andy

    I never saw enough of Frimpong from the Arsenal bench.

    It was only when Frimpong was loaned to the Wolves that I was able to follow enough of his game. After seeing him in a run of 5-6 starts, this kid was farther along in development than Song (at the same age).

    For his position, he was just as much an impact player (for Wolves) as Jack was for Arsenal as a midfielder. That is saying a lot.

    Markus is correct to bring up the point about Coq. Diaby and Ramsey are too valuable for their attacking qualities, imo. Song has the game to play wherever he is needed.

    Personally don’t feel Frimpong needs to go out on loan (again), but that’s just me.

  134. baseball, american football, basketball aren’t global sports. yes, basketball isn’t. Soz.

    football is. oh, you call it soccer.

    so the american models work for these other sports, because there is one true leader.

    not the case in football.

  135. Well put YW and thanks Irish.

    Fact is if it was remotely possible to implement, the clubs would have looked at it more seriously than they have – they know that the only winners would be the lawyers, accountants & consultants.

    Show me a simple solution and I’ll show you a simple man.

    Aaaand – the floor is yours USG…

  136. USG – You also seem to forget that there can be literally thousands of lower league clubs in any one country. With the promotion and relegation system,there are massive challenges to a cap system. A demoted club would find itself way over the cap for a lower division, and would have to sell on many of its top players with almost no way of buying them back outside of promotion. A promotion all the less likely to happen now that the clubs best players are gone. A salary cap exacerbates the problem of players switching clubs along with the clubs’ movement between tiers.

    European tax systems and rates vary greatly from country to country. One prominent club, AS Monaco, plays in a principality with no income tax at all. So having a capped payroll would lead to some players earning fortunes, while others are heavily taxed. In the US and Canada, the difference between the tax systems and tax rates in various states and provinces are not nearly as great.

    I have no doubt you can come up with many positive things that European clubs could and probably should adopt from the various American leagues but I think you are failing to understand that for every good idea they should adopt, there will be a good idea that the Americans might want to adopt from the Europeans. But again, putting your case forward as ‘THE’ way to do things is a bit narrow-minded at the best of times, something you seem to be in the habit of doing I hate to say.

  137. Jonny – i would much rather give him the door than the floor mate, just sayin’ 🙂

  138. Limestonegunner

    Nice one, YW. I certainly think that signing Giroud, M’Vila and Podolski this summer plus picking up a veteran GK would leave us with little more to wish for. If we find Rosicky maintains his health and has good form in preseason, perhaps we can get away with starting him and bringing along Ramsey and JW for the most forward midfield role. But I also think RvP can play the centre of a 4231 behind Giroud/Podolski on occasion as well, as can Arshavin if he returns. So I’d be quite satisfied with our business and imagine RvP could have no further desires.

    With RvP, he would be a club legend if he stayed and was more or less healthy the next three years. But he won’t truly inhabit the olympian heights of Arsenal glory with Henry and Wright if he doesn’t lead us to a couple domestic cups, or a league title, or a European final. But hopefully with such signings and the solid foundations of last season’s transition to a post-Cesc order, RvP would feel like those goals were possible if he can play well and exert the sort of influence and leadership he has shown the last two seasons. I like to think he would grab such a chance with Arsenal if the money is reasonable.

  139. Ha! Wouldn’t we all? If I was in charge of the door he wouldn’t have been allowed to come back and play at the big table, Irish!

  140. Nice post yogi:

    Happy that England topped the group. With a little luck they might actually win. Would be nice to see Theo play.

    Last year a lot of us were pretending to be optimistic about Cesc and Nasri but I doubt that any of us really believed either would stay. However the RVP saga is different. I really have no clue how it will all play out. If he is going to stay, why not sign a contract? what are they waiting for? Whatever happens I hope it becomes clear quickly so the squad can get on with preparing for the next season. Mentally it would be very difficult for the squad to prepare for the season without knowing RVP’s status I suspect. I think the worst that could happen is that it remains in limbo and then he leaves in late august.

    I agree with Andy. I think M’Villa would improve our team next season. I have no clue how good Frimpong and Le Coq will turn out to be. The old refrain about killing a young player by bringing in someone from the outside just doesn’t hold water anymore. Frimpong is still only a teenager and if he or Le Coq turns out to be a better player then M’villa then either will eventually move ahead of him in the pecking order. Frimpong is only a teenager now and we have all seen how difficult it is for even the most talented teenager to play consistently. We already have a huge mountain to climb if we really want to compete with the Manc clubs nest season and we have no chance to compete without a significant decrease in the number of goals we concede. At this stage in their careers, I can’t see Le Coq or Frimpong being an upgrade from what we already have but in thoery M’Villa could improve our defensive solidarity next season and hopefully for many seasons to come.

  141. GUS is laughing while USG winds up the whole blog….hehehehehe

  142. Jonny

    “I’ve followed the NFL since I was 9 years old.”

    You are a better man than me. I’m unable to stomach American professional football anymore.

    – endless game stoppages for commercials and lengthy reviews
    – obvious substance abuse by players
    – owners require that taxpayers fund their stadiums

  143. Upper Street Gooner

    Jonny

    If you follow american sports so much you would have understood my reference to college football in particular and how they govern a number of different leagues.

    Yogi

    Like i said before all these different national leagues wont be the case in a few years. Super leagues will develop in both europe, south america and asia. It seems outlandish to say such things but they will happen. These leagues will look allot more like the NFL in structure and size of club. Its a natural progression. Consequintly they will be allot easier to regulate. Wage inflation is a huge danger to the competative balance of leagues adn to many clubs existance. Many clubs wages to turnover is upwards of 80%. ours will rise to the 60% stage next year if not slightly higher. We are seen as a beacon of hope and yet 60% is the limit of being healthy. The clubs will change because they must change.

    Consolsbob

    Its this bigger better brasher export which has attracted so many of this site’s community to our club. As has been shown many times on here before some of these fans have a hatred of these same traditions you cherish so much.

    Irish

    I said our cap would look allot more like baseball than the NFL. Baseball traditions and franchises have similar histories to our own storied clubs. There will never be hard cap like in the NFL unless you make that cap number so high that it completely maintains the current status. The big clubs need to feel that their past work and glories still stand for something just like in NBA and Baseball where these clubs can still exercise their advantages but not to the same degree which is currently happening in european soccer. Clubs like arsenal should be rewarded for their organic growth not punished and the only way that can happen is with a change

  144. Whats up peeps?

    Some good discussion going on here.

    I am with Mr. Bob about the greed in the world. This nonsense about players careers being over by their early 30’s, when many make more in one year than most will make in a lifetime. IF RVP wants more money than Arsenal can give and more players as a sign of intent (not that this is true), my only words to him will be, “be off with you!”.

    Also, most of these more famous players will be able to find employment on TV or in some other job around football, the money they make and their fame will open almost any door for them. If they don’t know how to save their dough, that is on them and not the amount they get paid.

    Pointing out that other players are making more is also annoying for their are only a few clubs that can pay absured amounts (relatively speaking, as 130 grand/week is also absurd) and the players must be aware of that, no? That is where US sports go wrong for me; they publish wages and if a Running Back scores one more touchdown than another and gains a few more yards, they hold out for more money than that person!

    USG, why do we have to get used to the term “small market”?

    Have a blessed day, all!

  145. Limestonegunner

    Baseball is played pretty widely historically at a high level but there is no global tournament (Japan, Taiwan, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Mexico, Canada, Venezuela). Basketball is played all over with players all over the world joining the NBA now. But no other professional league is at the same level. The difference is that the US market and leagues in these sports are utterly dominant whereas in football there are several important and wealthy leagues with players from all over the world–PL, la Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga– that have organized a European wide tournament.

    So I think it is less that football is global, though it is more truly global than any of the American sports, than that the dominance of one league and one national market doesn’t exist in football.

    The other difference is that the national tournaments for football are important in their own right and don’t happen through the Olympics. That is exceptional for all other team sports. For example national team basketball is entirely an Olympic phenomenon, as is hockey. Baseball is odd in having many nations play but no genuine tournament and no real Olympics interest either.

  146. Cbob @1:41 – QED.

  147. On another note entirely, here are some stats to keep the geeks amongst us happy 🙂

    0 – This the first 16-team Euros that has had no goalless draws.
    1 – The Dutch had never lost more than one group stage match at the Euros before losing all 3 this time.
    2 – Matches Shrek missed before putting England through with a header from his nice new rug.
    3 – Hélder Postiga, Christaino Ronaldo and Zlatan Ibrahimović joined a list of only seven players to score at 3 Euro Championships. The other 4 are Jürgen Klinsmann, Vladimír Šmicer, Nuno Gomes and our very own Thierry Henry.
    6 – Minutes it took the Czech Republic to score 2 goals against Greece. The previous record was 14 minutes.
    15 – Seconds Andriy Shevchenko had the ball against Sweden, more than enough time to score twice. Mario Gomez took 3 seconds longer for his double aginst the Dutch.
    17 – Number of headed goals so far, already a record. (18 if you count Shay Given’s!)
    18 -Jetro Willems is the youngest player to grace the Euros at age 18 years and 72 days
    26 – Number of first half goals, already 1 more than 4 years ago
    73 – Irish coach Giovanni Trapattoni became the oldest coach at a Euro Championship at the ripe old age of 73 years and 93 days and boy did it show!!
    810 – Number of passes Spain completed during its match against Ireland, Xavi completed 127 himself. Ireland completed 198. Not quite the shock of the tournament I am afraid to admit.

  148. Upper Street Gooner

    Paul N

    I wasn’t referring to small market perse but the terms big market and small market. These are terms which will be used more and more.

    Listen to the debate between barcelona and real and the rest of their league. It would make many in this country want to vomit with the disdain they speak of the other clubs but inessence what they say is incredibly true.

    Terms like these which are prevelant in the US and unheard of here will beomce much more commonplace

  149. Arsenal did not need new players to be contenders next season in my book. If we had our current team from the start of last season, I believe we would have been contenders. The new signings will add, hopefully, but I am not sure why we are dismissing the players that we have. Can Coquelan and Frimpong give Song a break at DM? I think so. When Frimpong plays his game, he is a beast. How many teenagers go into a PL team and instantly become one of their most important players, and an a fan favorite? that kid is a special talent. Dont have to say much about Coquelan, as we have seen enough to know that he is the real deal.

  150. Bill

    Frimpong turned 20 last January. M’vila is only 17 months older, not many more years experienced.

    As a teenager, Jack appeared in abt 53 matches for Arsenal and by many that post here became (in their opinion) an automatic starter.

    Were you able to catch the matches that Frimpong started at Wolves?

    I agree with your remark about needing to decrease the number of conceded goals.

  151. Jabba ; Even if super leagues were to be formed the huge difference in taxation across many European countries would still be there. If a salary cap were to be introduced then some clubs will still get a big advantage. It wont even the playing field.

  152. @Irishgray

    thanks for the useful information

  153. Soccer = Football is THE MOST dominant game on the planet because all u need to play it is a ball or some object u can kick.

    U don’t need clothes, shoes, boots, goalposts, nets, helmets, caps, socks, TV, a stadium, skyy, trophies, agents, refs, linesmen, sponsorship, energy drinks, steroids, bicycles…..
    to be straight, gay, bi-, religious, non-religious, french, american, etc….salary, salary cap, a blog…(someone pls stop me)

    anyone with a foot, 2 feet or any object(s) that ably represent feet can play the wonderful game called football, aka soccer.

    ’tis why we love it!

  154. USG

    You’re mad if you think that super leagues will usurp national leagues. Even the ECA recognise that promotion and relegation are core principles that make the product successful. In other words, a European League will have national leagues as their feeders. They won’t look anything like the NFL and even Ivan has spoken out publicly against losing that key tenet of football.

    Equally, unless the leagues are globally inclusive, Chinese clubs – and who knows, Brazilian in years to come – can pay higher money than any salary capped league. All it takes is a few players to pitch up in these leagues when they are in the peak of their careers and salary capped leagues become unattractive.

    FFP specifically looked at this and deemed salary caps as unworkable. Clubs will always work around them. In the 1970s, Arsenal had a deal with Coke to pay part of Cruyff’s wages should he sign for the club. If we were thinking of it then, I am damn sure a more inventive mind will find a way to ignore any rules. The 60% level you mention is a healthy limit and clubs are lowering their wage bill to meet that. They are also helped by increasing revenues from broadcasters in achieving those aims.

    Super Leagues have been mentioned for thirty years or more. The ECA threatens it to get their own way on international fixtures but has publicly admitted that there is not much appetite for such a product at the moment within the clubs. A European League will happen but it will be a replacement for the Champions and Europa Leagues, split into divisions with qualification based on domestic performance.

    The Premier League’s 39th game was deemed unworkable (a) because of the politics, (b) the uncompetitive nature of the game, imbalancing the domestic season, (c) local impact and (d) it’s a fucking stupid idea. Playing matches abroad will be limited to the Charity Shield or whatever: take the FA Cup or League Cup final abroad and you will instantly kill that competition. It will be dead in the water.

  155. Upper Street Gooner

    Paul-N | June 20, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    Frimpong is coming off 2 acl ruptures in 2 years.

    We lost 2 of our final 5 games which is 50% of what utd and city lost in the entire year.

    If we dont add players i think its pretty sure we lose RVP and Walcott meaning we need to rebuild again

    We never spend our proceeds from sales on new additions and we have never really improved. Lets change the way we doing something.Ther was no need to finish 19 points off last year.

  156. ssehrawat’s got my vote

  157. Bill at 2:46 pm

    Bill, I’m surprised you’re for the M’Villa deal. Don’t you always advocate experience in defence?

    I’m boring myself saying it but why buy another 21 year old prospect at that price? Go for experience in that position if anything. We get experienced backup for Song/Arteta in a crucial position and it gives our younger players more hope of breaking into the team. The only way the M’Villa deal makes sense for me is if we are set to lose a midfielder.

  158. USG, United had the title in hand and lost it when they were 8 points ahead, so no use telling me that Arsenal lost 2 of the last 5. Where we went terribly wrong was at the start. I am only saying that I think if we had a settled team from the jump we would have been contenders.

    I have no issue with adding, I am saying that we have a good squad regardless of additions. As far as RVP and Walcott If players want to leave they will leave and If they want to run a club, they should stop playing football and become managers. It does make you wonder how Liverpool keep players though.

    It is true that Frimpong will need evaluating due to his injuries but then we have Coquelan, which is my point.

  159. USG – again you assume way too much. Just because I can’t be arsed to engaged with your half-arsed fuckwittery does not mean I do not understand it or that I know ‘fuck all’ about it.

    Arsesession – I know what you speak of and I freely admit my passion has waned a little for NFL over the years – still I quite enjoyed last season there were some cracking matches.

    It’s a shame Channel 5 stopped doing it’s detailed highlights programme – that was excellent.

  160. YW – I fully agree with how the ‘Superleague’ will end up being formed, it will simply be an amalgamation of existing CL/Europa leagues as you say. What USG misses is the fact that such a Super league cannot survive by itself and needs a supply source, with this source being domestic leagues. In other words the so-called Super league will not replace domestic championships but will rather reinforce them. I would like to see the Charity shield being played in different places around the world though. As far as the 39th game goes, what a stupid idea!! never made sense to begin with and I am glad the idea died a death.

  161. Walks in.

    ??????????

    Ignorance is bliss, I tell ya!!

    Walks out.

  162. LOL Albert. Time to go and have breakfast then, it’s a rough life I tells ya.

  163. We also lost 2 of our last 8. United lost 2 of their last 6. City lost 2 in their last 11.

    AS you can see as far as losses we were better than United. We had a few too many draws.

  164. I agree with Albert.

    Jonny

    Its all your own fault for being interested in american sport!

    Today’s ramblings are akin to an astrophyicist invading a hard core knitting blog and then trying to lord it over the bloggers there because they dont know the first thing about the new cracks on Uranus.

  165. Dex

    I am certain that I wish to have no knowledge about the cracks on Uranus.

  166. Also, lets not forget that they both got dumped the heck out of the CL (early)and UEFA competitions, in a shameful fashion while we beat the likes of Dortmund, Udinese and OM when we were not at our best.

    Why the backside can’t we see that?!

  167. Upper Street Gooner

    Yogi’s Warrior | June 20, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    I’m not talking about now I’m talking about in the future.

    On the one hand you some say the italian league rubbish as is spain so why would barca, milan, juve, inter, real, roma not serioulsy consider this. If City, Utd and Chels dominate for the next 5 years as its quite clearly impossible to compete with them, if that results in a reduction in overseas revenue as fans become board abroad and domestic fans liek some have mentioned today go watch bath city instead. If these things happen it creates an environment where it can happen. Rome wasn’t built in a day and I’m not talking about tomorrow i’m asking you to see the direction football has been moving since the break up of the football league and see where it might be in 10 years. To help you with this one can look at example of other notable leagues from a number of different sports to see how they have attended to things.

    You absolutley right about talking about china and brazil. Thats why its important to create a cap which keeps our competetaive side. Having a hard cap would be extremley difficult. However having a cap that relates to a clubs revenue administered by fifa certainly isn’t beyoned the realms of possibility. China. brazil have neither the infrastructure to compete yet with the europeans . Our advantage is there to stay for a while. Your also missing on one of the most lucrative potential markets…..america. Americans become bored very easily, the fact that 50% of the entrants to the nfl playoffs are new teams every year is one of its main selling points and something that basketball has yet to counteract.

    Yes it is hard to administer regulations and clubs will always try and cheat the system. The same is true in the NFL. What matters is leadership to punish such parties. This isnt there yet but can develop. Fifa has a huge amount of power it could be used for good as well as shit.

    Yogi your point about the 39th game is right but rest assured the clubs want it certainly the big clubs want and our owner is more behind it than any other owner in the whole world. 12.5% of the rams home games will be played abroad for the next 3 years. We always here Ivan talk of our worldwide fanbase and i alwasy here about our nigerian and american fans and how they are just as important to the club as local fans. Yes they are but only when we can monitise them. So they will have there chance to support our club in the future and they will be charged through there teeth to do it. Can you imagine how lucrative us playign one game in asia against some dull average lancashire club would be if it was an epl game. Its 100% going to happen and it will be sooner rather than later. It may well start with the charity sheild but you need to look further ahead. Its started being friendlies in the NFL and now one franchise is thinking about moving its games to London. That franchise is owned by the same bloke who owns are club

  168. Limestonegunner

    Steww, I’ve recently been re-reading Fever Pitch too–I think I posted about it when there was all the hoopla about the final day of the PL season and collective punditry experienced amnesia about football before the PL, including the greatest ever title-deciding league finish in 1989.

    You are absolutely right about how present it feels. I think not only was Hornsby genius in capturing the experience of being a football fan, the amazing season of 89, but also the transition in football culture and finance that anticipated the formation of the PL. It was prescient and that’s why it seems still so relevant.

    I’ve been going to our new local Kingston FC home matches to experience the grassroots game, but it is quite different here from the deep roots of lower league football, I imagine.

    Please tell us about what it is like if you do get to some games.

  169. PaulN

    I dont think a DM is a priority, as Arteta has shown that we do have the necessary platform already from which to build a solid base. I also really rate Coquelin and the really unfortunate Frimpong (who I imagine is in need of a new loan, once he retiurns to fitness).

    However, I think adding M’Villa would really give us real quality to that position, especially while Coquelin plays RB till Sagna returns. All this talk of M’Villa from Desailly and others who really rate him massively, added to the fact we were in for him last summer and seem intent on trying again has definitely made him this summer’s Mata/Hazard, so that means we wont sign him then! 🙂

  170. Upper Street Gooner

    Jonny | June 20, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    You can watch all the highlights on the NFL Network online free of charge and any analysis. Much better than channel 5 ever provided

  171. Don’t understand why people seek to over complicate things.

    With regards to M’Vila his prospective signing makes 100% sense if only for the fact that AW believes it improves his squad and perhaps even gives him something which is currently absent. Given the sums of money being suggested I would expect this to be the case, he isn’t being signed to compete with anybody, he is being signed as a first 11 player to start games. I know people will think all players have competition but there is always ‘first team’ players.

    Comparison of him with Frimpong above is ridiculous. One is a player with 100+ appearances in a relatively good European league and 20+ appearances for a very good standard international team, the other is a young lad with about 10-15 appeareance (maybe a few more). I would suggest they are currently light years apart though that is not to say EF could yet develop into a top player.

    His current position in the hearts of fans is as much to do with his persona as his talent which is there to see but far from ready to play week in week out for Arsenal.

  172. Ha! @ Yogi

  173. Markus

    Ah, experience. Now that idea has my support, but that brings up the fact that anyone worth their salt will expect to start…….and our manager has shown an aversion to rotation.

  174. Steve

    I tend to agree with you, Coquelin would be a better comarison than Frimpong and yet he isnt ready to come into that position either, IMO.

  175. @Steve

    I completely agree with you not to mention you make loads of sense ecspecially the part about quality and appearances. Whats interesting is that just last summer when we signed Ox, I remember people having the same discussion, why sign Ox when we have Theo then it became lets sign Ox he is better than Theo. O well!

  176. Limestonegunner

    I am sure Kroenke thinks his control of Arsenal will help promote his Rams in London. I am still wondering what exactly his control of Arsenal will do uniquely to help Arsenal, but that’s a different matter.

  177. Dex, my comments are not to say that M’Villa would not be a good signing and I am not comparing him with Frimpong (just to clarify that to Steve). I am just bigging up the players we have and saying that we are good even if M’Villa does not come. By all means lets add, but lets not forget either.

  178. Again In know – Channel 5’s round up was good though – like MOTD but not shite.

  179. I not ‘In’.

  180. PaulN

    Bro! I was kinda agreeing with you there man. But this M’Villa dude looks the cats pyjamas! 🙂

  181. USG

    >I’m not talking about now I’m talking about in the future.

    So am I. I use the here and now as arguments to back up my argument. You’re using incomparable sporting environments along with a massive dose of your own dystopian view of football.

    >If City, Utd and Chels dominate for the next 5 years

    You presume that no other clubs will change hands in that time and challenge them according to new wealth. It will take more than 5 years.

    >Having a hard cap would be extremley difficult. However having a cap that relates to a clubs revenue administered by fifa certainly isn’t beyoned the realms of possibility.

    A hard cap is a %. No fixed sum works because of the disparity in revenues. Fifa has proven itself incompetent administratively and they for one, will have no desire to see anything that negatively impacts their revenues which a Super League would.

    >but rest assured the clubs want it certainly the big clubs want and our owner is more behind it than any other owner in the whole world.

    No, Arsenal argued against it but because the majority of clubs wanted it, they abstained.

    >Its 100% going to happen

    Opinion not fact so it is not 100% going to happen. Your view is it will; mine is it won’t, especially not against a dull average lancashire club.

  182. pedantic george

    DNFTT

  183. @Jonny

    Watching american football on Channel 5 at times can honestly be like watching MOTD and just as shit. Take it from somebody who watches it just as much as he watches Arsenal(Steelers my other favorite club in the world)

  184. Have you seen the cracks on Uranus lately george?

  185. pedantic george

    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
    Thank fuck I am safe then.
    Dexter,I am interested in Uranus.Dont feel too unloved.

  186. Dex, I know. I was just saying.

  187. Upper Street Gooner

    Limestonegunner | June 20, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    The difference is the potential value of arsenal completely exceeds the Rams. Its much harder for the Rams to expand their fanbase worldwide as it is us. Whilst the NFL is growing internationally its at a much slower rate than the EPL for obviosu reasons. Our trouble comes from increased competition from other european clubs

    He bought Arsenal becuase of our potential. Over the next 10-15 years arsenal value can go through the stratosphere. There are literally billions of fans who are untapped who have no domestic league who are getting much much richer very quickly.

    If arsenal can be succesful and make no mistake about it that means challenging for trophies consistently in the next few years we have a brilliant potential to grow our fanbase to a size that would make the cowboys tremble. If the Dodgers are worth 2 billion dollars and that can make the steinbrenner family ask for a quote of the Yankees what on earth does that make utd worth now and what more what could they be woth in 10 years.

    Thats why Stan bought us. 600 odd million pounds will be a steal if we can start getting better on the pitch and Mr Fox and his colleagues do what they are paid for

  188. Dex, I have not seen too much of M’Villa but if he does sign, I hope Coquelan and Frimpong give him a run for his money. There is something about players coming through the ranks (to whatever extent) and making the grade.

  189. PaulN

    Again, I agree bruv. Those 2 in particular I hope make it with us, Ive folklowed them for ages now. I think Frimpong could have had almost a big a breakthrough season as Jack if he hadnt suffered that baaaad injury. Coquelin has looked class for a while now, the loan to L’Orient did him the world of good. He should feature quite a lot next season.

  190. pedantic george

    Jonny,I have done door work.We could work this one together.

  191. Limestonegunner

    USG, that’s exactly why I don’t buy the American corporate propaganda you are spouting. If they are so far ahead, why can they not promote their sports as successfully globally and why are they buying up football clubs? The fact is that a club like Arsenal is a class organization and far ahead of Kroenke’s other teams. He’s found a gold mine in Arsenal and I struggle to determine what he has to teach us. I’d say nothing. If anything, his other teams will benefit from association with Arsenal.

    What exactly can he benefit Arsenal uniquely that we wouldn’t be able to accomplish with anyone else?

    The fact is that Aman is right. Football has a natural advantage because it is simple and cheap to play anywhere. The rest of the world has the attention span to watch for 45 minutes without needing lots of bathroom, beer and snack breaks even without five or six goals a game.

    The top clubs are at the forefront of sports science and medicine and are marketing themselves globally in ways the US sports owners can only dream. So they are buying football clubs because football is way ahead in many respects.

  192. Steve

    When you’ve watched both play, opinion based on what you’ve seen outweighs stats. (for someone with a knowledgable eye)

    I would venture a guess that the quality of player at Arsenal is slightly above that at Rennes. Could that be a more difficult hurdle for Frimpong?

    You’ve pointed out the international discrepancy, yet I don’t see France with a midfield that is anything to boast about. Many national team selections are political. (at least that is my impression) For an Arsenal player to get selected and then see playing time is another can of worms.

    I certainly would rate Kos over Mexes. Yet look at Mexes credentials.

    So many perspectives to toss around.

  193. Quick one, for cricket fans and all fans of the underdog in life. Zimbabwe has just beaten South Africa, first time since I don’t know when, in any game of cricket, this one admittedly only a T-20, but hey … give a guy his day in sun! Zim 176-4. SA 147 all out.

    Match commentary: Zim dominated from ball one, never out of control, Masakadza and Sibanda putting on an unbeaten 100 in 11 overs, and then bowled superbly to restrict the powerful South African batting line-up which made the mistake of boasting, prior to the match, “SA bats all the way down to number 10, so we have few worries on that score”.

    This was not the full strength SA side of course, but full enough – 7 regular T20 starters and 3 senior one-day players making the 11, one debutant. Zim also had one debutant.

    In football terms, well, I dunno Swansea beating Manu 4-1?

  194. Dex, by talking about di yute dem, I am even more excited for the season to start.
    By the sound of it, with our new players?, and our current players signing on (RVP, Song, Walcott) we should be good and ready to do some real damage.
    What a blow wow team, the best team in the PL!

  195. Upper Street Gooner

    Yogi’s Warrior | June 20, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    Its you who say these sports are incomparable. Super Rugby used the example of the NFL as did the magners league their revenues have increased remarkably over that time. All of these clubs in these leagues immplemented salary caps due safe guard their future and to make their product more attractive to fanbases. In essence you are saying we can learn nothing from nobody.

    ”You presume that no other clubs will change hands in that time and challenge them according to new wealth. It will take more than 5 years. ”

    I presume that the ffp will have some affect yes. I dont see another City happening. Yes it may well take more than 5 years but then again one of the main adavntages that the NFL has over us is that their decsion making process is so short compared to us. 5 years is huge stretch 10-15, all im saying is that it will happen.

    ”A hard cap is a %. No fixed sum works because of the disparity in revenues.”

    I said a hard cap wouldnt work. Thats why im talking about a simialr theme to baseball and basketball where these disparities in revenue are still there but its fairer. 2 of the yankees highest earners earn as much as the entire Rays roster and yet they chellenge them. There will still be disaparities and there must still be disparities as the old guard would never give up their advantages it can nevertheless be made much fairer.

    ”No, Arsenal argued against it but because the majority of clubs wanted it, they abstained. ”

    Our owner has shown himself through actions that if the environment permits to be so up for exporting regualr season games abroad to increase revenue that he sold of 12.5% of the rams home games. Many NFL experts thisnk there will be a london franchise in the next 5-10 years playing in the nfl. They think that Kroenke is positioning the rams to be that franchise, so please yogi lets get real here. Have you any idea hwo unpopular kroenke is for doing these things, do you think he gives 2 shits, he is in ti for the fricking money this isnt fiction.

    ”Opinion not fact so it is not 100% going to happen. Your view is it will; mine is it won’t, especially not against a dull average lancashire club.”

    Why give forign fans utd vs arsenal which is already a money making machine both domestically and overseas when you can turn a sterile game against wigan into an international spectacle. You can make a home gate that far exceeds what we would get at the emirates and then the tv money and advertsing well that just gets pretty dinky. Thats why a dull average lancashire club is exactly the game they would export. If you choose to look how other sports have done this this is exactly how theyve done it. Why give them Patriots Jets when you could make just as much giving them patriots tampa….makes complete sense

  196. Limestone;

    You make some really good points there.

    I think US sports, in the main, have been designed to suit TV and the advertisers. Hence the fact that when the US got the world Cup in 94 How the fuck did that happen?) they tried to implement 4 quarters and other zany ideas like that. I think US sports have to try and constantkly change and adapt their products as the marketplace is a lot smaller and the audience have an increasinly short attention span

    The US are brilliant at marketing, but there’s only so many ways you can polish a turd! 🙂

  197. ACLFers everywhere may celebrate the Zim victory long and wildly into the night. After all, it’s been 10 years. what more excuse is needed?

  198. I once went out with a woman who (on the surface) was attractive, and then she opened her mouth.

  199. Markus and Arsesession:

    I always get excited about potential new signings especially when in theory the main purpose of that signing would be to improve our defense. As Steve points out M’Villa is certainly a lot more experienced then Frimp and Le Coq and IMO he would most likely would add more defensive nous to the squad in the next year or 2 then either of those players. No one knows if M’Villa will be a better player then Frimp or Le Coq in 2 -3 years but that will play out over the course of time and will depend on health issues, as well as talent, squad needs and intangibles. If those players turn out to be direct competitors for a specific position then the best player will eventually win out. Perhaps I am wrong but my assumption is that we will be a better team next season and perhaps the season following with M’Villa in the squad even if he costs a bit more then we are used to paying.

    Thats not a knock on Frimp or Le Coq. because I like both players especially Frimpong who is an absolute beast. I would love him to become an Arsenal all time great, but I also thought JET and Vela etc etc could be all time greats. Its a real crap shoot with young players and we need to improve next season.

  200. Arsesession

    I have seen both players play, albeit one not in the flesh as such. I wouldn’t give an opinion of a footballer had I not seen him play, I leave that to the Championship Manager and YouTube generation.

    I could be wrong and I apologise if so, but your comment re ” for someone with a knowledgable eye” marks you down as a touch arrogant.

    Some of your other comments, specifically “the quality of player at Arsenal is slightly above that at Rennes” is laughable. If life were so simple then we would never be in a position to look to sign anybody as those we have are already the best.

  201. Lovely news ZimPaul!!

    Jabba; Taking a leaf out of your book, i am going to re post.

    Even if super leagues were to be formed the huge difference in taxation across many European countries would still be there. If a salary cap were to be introduced then some clubs will still get a big advantage. It wont even the playing field.

  202. The US sports are way too young to even try to have the impact that football has. Football has the world market on lock and that will never change, no matter how much the US leagues try to branch out. Fact is football is growing in the US

  203. Upper Street Gooner

    Limestonegunner | June 20, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Its easier to export football than the NFL this is obvious. They are still doing a grat job of exporting a very complicated sport to europeans and they arent scared to try thing nor for these thjings to fail. Its this opportunistic approach which is what we lack mainly as a culture. Look how rugby has done in america and then compare that growth to there’s over here. They are brilliant at what they do.

    NFL owners think they can do abetter job than us as they know how to think big. Very few european clubs understand their potential properly as many of them think like some of the fans on here. To some on here playing domestic games abroad is ridiculous and yet its the future and sometimes it takes someone who can think outise the box and not say ”that will take 30 years” nope it wont not if you break down barriers.

    The NFL is still finding ways to convert domestic fans into ardent NFL fans whetehr it be through fantasy football or highlighting how unimportant and ardous the NBA AN MLB regular seasons are.

  204. @Arssesion

    “I would venture a guess that the quality of player at Arsenal is slightly above that at Rennes.”

    That is a true statement but their are also extremely talented players that sign for these lesser talented clubs at a young age develop through their youth ranks and then go on to become 1st team members then transferring to a different club. As a young lad most of the time you play for your local club or a team that you love. Maybe he loved and wanted to play for Rennes when he was young. Look at Kos, he played for a small Ligue 2 club and look at him now.

  205. Upper Street Gooner

    Dexter

    ”Hence the fact that when the US got the world Cup in 94 How the fuck did that happen?)”

    Opening up new markets. Thats what its all about, its all about the money thats why these changes take place. Money makes the world go round even more so from a major sport perspective. You can hate or love it neither matters as its goign to happen regardless

  206. Knock knock

    Sorry, wrong place.

    Can anyone point me to aclf.

  207. Personally I don’t give a f*ck about the NFL, NBA, USB, PDF or the cracks on Uranus.

  208. Dex, I agree that games here in the US work as one with advertising; You even have things like TV timeouts! with that being said, they are showing football matches more regularly now. Trust me, the transformation is something to see. I believe the US womens teams should get a lot of credit for football being more popular here, having people from all over the world live here also.

  209. You all speak of US sports and their marketing. From what I have read most of the income for professional sports leagues comes from commercials and other marketing deals hence why there are so many commercials and breaks in the action. Thats why most of the time you hear about small market teams not having a chance in hell to compete because they don’t get all the marketing and commercials deals of say a New York, LA or Miami.

  210. Upper Street Gooner

    sahil sehrawat (@sahil_sehrawat) | June 20, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    very valid point once again nobody is saying they ahve all the ideas, one is just saying it will happen.

    Canada and US have different taxation rates and yet they share domestic leagues for baseball, basketball and hockey.

    The NFL will 100% have foreign franchise within the next 10years you wont see them worryign to much about taxation. You find a way to get round these things

  211. USG

    >I presume that the ffp will have some affect yes. I dont see another City happening. Yes it may well take more than 5 years but then again one of the main adavntages that the NFL has over us is that their decsion making process is so short compared to us. 5 years is huge stretch 10-15, all im saying is that it will happen.

    You’re not very far-sighted are you. Already rumours have surfaced about Spurs going to Anschauser. No truth I am sure but big brands – and the EPL is one – always attract buyers. City will happen again. Chelsea will happen again. Arsenal are a prime example. When KSE go, assuming that finances remain in a similar state, there will be one hell of a bunfight to buy it.

    You said 5 years earlier. Even 10 years is short in football.

    >Our owner has shown himself through actions that if the environment permits to be so up for exporting regualr season games abroad to increase revenue that he sold of 12.5% of the rams home games. Many NFL experts thisnk there will be a london franchise in the next 5-10 years playing in the nfl. They think that Kroenke is positioning the rams to be that franchise, so please yogi lets get real here. Have you any idea hwo unpopular kroenke is for doing these things, do you think he gives 2 shits, he is in ti for the fricking money this isnt fiction.

    Re-read my commment. You said all big clubs wanted Game 39. I said, they did not: ARSENAL ABSTAINED. It’s on the club website if you search. The EPL decision to try for Game 39 was a MAJORITY decision. EPL rules require something like 13 clubs to agree; 14 did in the end, the rest abstained.

    Your fundamental problem is that you don’t listen. Anyone disagrees, you come up with more ludicrous comparisons about NFL franchises moving to London. They are still in the NF-ucking-L. They are not trying to create a pan-continental Super League, just marketing their piss-poor sport around the world.

    The NFL competitors are other sports. Other sports, re-read that and let it sink in. They are not talking about other teams in other leagues in other countries nor is there a concept of new and exciting markets where the sport can take off. It can’t. You can’t play NFL on the street without serious injury. You can football.

    The NFL artificially creates competition but it is easy to impose changes in a one-country system. Without relegation.

    The football clubs do take marketing lessons to improve their revenues but they are also very much aware that the NFL operates in a very different sporting climate. That distinction has wholly evaded you.

  212. ZP

    >ACLFers everywhere may celebrate the Zim victory long and wildly into the night. After all, it’s been 10 years. what more excuse is needed?

    USGs internet connection gets cut?

  213. Upper Street Gooner

    Paul-N | June 20, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    The american sports have huge disadvantages but they are still trying an succeeding in exporting there sports. Football grows in the US but the major reason behind this is latino migration and women.

    Basketabll grows worldwide as does NFL. MLB has concentrated on trying regain a deomstic market share and with the look of the new local tv deals dished out to the rangers and dodgers this appears to be working.

    They never stand still and they never accept their current status and they work tremendously hard to improve. These are the attributes of these americans trying to export there sports

  214. Err, is this a bad time?, am going to take a dump, just thought i should let you’ll know – lets talk about marketing my dump.

  215. C, that is true but the flipside is that you can build through the draft. As far as the NBA, Oklahoma (in this years finals) and San Antonio (won quite a few championships) have done a fine job.

  216. @Paul-N

    I agree completely with you on the transformation. Living here in the states its amazing the difference due to women’s soccer. I also believe that it is in part to the influences of what I call non-US sports like NHL, futbol, tennis, rugby. These sports are based on the flowing of the game and the time of the match thus it allows for less commercials and breaks in action. TO GO ON RECORD, I FUCKING HATE TV TIMEOUTS AND BECAUSE I HATE THEM SO MY LIVER HATES THEM TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  217. pedantic george

    khalifha ,Fucking hell am I glad to see you.
    Its mad on here today.I dont have any inclination to get involve in what seem to be the most pointless debate in ACLF history.
    Did you watch any Youtube Jimmy Connors yet?

  218. pedantic george

    Or his throat Yogi?

  219. @Paul-N

    I agree you can win the draft as I love the model of the Spurs and for that instance my beloved Steelers(Yup born and bred in Pittsbugh, PA) which are small market teams that build well. The issue that all small market teams though face even the Spurs and soon Oklahoma is that their players must remain loyal to the club because of the fact that spending wont be as rampad.

  220. Limestonegunner

    Dex, lol–indeed!

    USG, Irishgray and Jonny said it well–let’s not exaggerate the US sports advantages. My main point is that Kroenke is getting into Arsenal because we are global and a class organization. I don’t see him doing much for us that we haven’t done or couldn’t do on our own. As far as the wider football picture, changes always take place, but I don’t see a wholesale adoption of the US sports model as the conditions are too different. An idea here or there, perhaps some scheme for moderating spending, FFP is such an attempt.
    I wouldn’t want to see it become more like American sports frankly. As an American it is what I find attractive about Arsenal and football–club culture and history and a beautiful game of continuous action. I love stoppage time, the lack of timeouts, the fact that coaches can’t micromanage the game but have to trust the players to use their skills and brains to implement the strategy.

    So I agree philosophically with Cbob. But what I would like to see is how Arsenal can maintain some sense of identity as well as progress and succeed in the global football world. Right now I see great potential but nothing being contributed by Kroenke, and I don’t valorize his sports ownership in the US as some great help for Arsenal. Instead I see the benefit flowing in the opposite direction, so I prefer the previous minority shareholder model with some football savvy board members. The weakness in our current situation is when AW retires, because I don’t see any other source of genuine football vision and leadership right now in the club. Hopefully that is still some years off and Gazidis grows in stature by working with AW for several more years.

  221. @PG

    The Russian isn’t coming back!

    @Khalifha

    Lets talk Arsenal but not while your on teh shitter!

  222. USG, women and latino’s may have started the trend but more youth are playing football now. It is the fastest growing sport amongst the youth in the US, so I read. You also have a lot of people from Africa and a lot of carribean’s. There was really no choice but to show more football.

  223. pedantic george

    c,Why do you say that?

  224. Hey Steve…..

    there are many who post that use the media to formulate their opinion; did not intend for the ‘knowledgeable eye’ remark to be aimed at you; we all have perspectives.

    As for my Rennes comparison, well we can agree to disagree.

    C

    I don’t disagree with your points; all this discussion about M’vila is just healthy opinions to pass away the moment.

    I think if M’vila transfer price was what we paid for Kos, the deal would have been done already, right?

    I’m just saying that maybe the market value on M’vila is not a value (for Arsene) compared to what we already invested in?

  225. C, what does loyalty mean again?

  226. ” At this stage I am already tired of this summer’s Arsenal will he won’t he transfer story. I take no real hope from AW’s statement as I am quite sure last summer he unequivocally stated that neither Nasri nor Cesc would leave, of course he is going to. ”

    And no doubt he made similar public declarations just before Henry was sold.
    Though I don’t recall him making such statements before Cashley was sold/traded.

  227. Upper Street Gooner

    Yup thats right a ludricous comparison comparing to our owners mindset with one of his clubs to another one of his clubs. He is doing it to make money and has shown himself to be the type of guy who will happily play regular seasons games abroad to do this.

    We have seen other european soccer leagues start to experiment with this.

    Our aim consistenly is to provide an excclent product to our millions of foreign fans you can read that on our website as well yogi.

    The best way of doign this is by providing them the real deal rather than fake stuff. As and there have been a number of studies on this these same foreign fans become numb to friendlies.

    So when we have the opportunity to play wigan or west brom away in front of 80,000 fans many of them paying upawrads of 200 dollars for the priveldge not including premium seating and then have access to 350 million people who will be interested in a regular seaosn game there, believe me our owners and other owners will be very interested in it.

    That european super league that you think so amazingly far fetched we already have the cl and people love it. People love watching big games, rather than have 20 big games a year imagine if you could have 40.

    You say the nfl is competing with other sports………….SO ARE WE and Scudamore has alluded to this on numerous times.

    You think Utd areent competign with 20/20 in india. You think anyone socer team in china arent competing with NBA sides for fanbases.

    What about china with baseball and rugby.

    If i’m mr Japan and i have 2 hours a day to follow my team and 400 pounds a year that im willing to spend on my team if that side is arsenal, utd, patriots, yankees, green bay it matters not a jot its still 400 bangers.

    These developing markets the ones we are trygin to explore are the same developing markets for all the other sports but you just cant see it

  228. @USG and Paul-N

    We must also attribute it to clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool(unfortunately) who allow for American owners and when they own these clubs the clubs get constant mention during the program. I remember watching a Denver Nuggets game during their regular season and they mentioned Kroenke and Arsenal several times even showed pictures of the club. This type of marketing ecspecially in the US leads to people being interested in these futbol clubs and then leading to ESPN giving more coverage to World Cup and Euro’s and the different domestic leagues worldwide.

  229. Limestonegunner

    If M’Vila improves our team, we should be delighted if AW acquires him. The only question is priorities for our finite resources. Is M’Vila or an experienced defensively minded/capable midfielder a greater priority than another player to run our team’s attack, so that we aren’t relying only on Rosicky, Ramsey and a player like JW coming back from injury who has never played that position at the top level?

    Maybe the question is which position is more crucial for Arsenal success next year? And which player(s) are available who would conceivably be improvements in those two positions? And finally, in which position do we have the largest room for improvement once we’ve assessed the risks and rewards current players bring to those positions?

    An oblique issue is whether we might need to modify or update our tactical and formational set up at all?

    My provisional thought is if Rosicky is healthy, we might have enough there. But if we lose RvP and Theo, we will need a strong creative presence to help integrate new forwards like Podolski and Giroud. On the other hand, Song will be away for the ACN. Is Coquelin ready, can Arteta play there? Having a strong, physical midfield force like M’Vila could be very important to maintaining some defensive solidity given the physical rigor of our league.

    A wild card is the Ox. He might have a Wilshere-like season on the wings and even centrally, but it is a great deal to count on. I’d rather take a more cautious approach with developing young talent like him. But I do have realistic hopes that Ramsey progresses.

    What do folks think is or should be the priority, presuming RvP plays for us next season?

  230. @PG

    Because you said you didn’t have any inclination to get involved lol

  231. GUS is beating the crap out of Uranus today.
    Wonder how much longer wordpress can take this?

  232. Ha! C, i was joking.

    PG, yea man, the guy was good. I even checked out his biography(wikipedia) wow!. If he had competed in more grand slams(french open especially) he probably would have won more trophies.
    I still can’t say if he was better than Roger man.

  233. C, true, but don’t forget David Bechkam for cying out loud.

    An ESPN Analyst did some great advertising for Arsenal; he said it was the best name in all of sports. That was pretty kool!

  234. Football will be the dominant game in the US within the next 20 years. If only because of the changing ethnic profile of the country. Not only that it will be based on football the world over not the US model of sport, simply because of the influence of South America.

    Really radical but I also suggest that the US as a country will begin to divide itself into separate entities maybe even different countries as a result of that same changing ethnic profile.

    Anyway the upshot is that Kroenke is interested in owning a chunk of Arsenal precisely because such a club is a model of the future set up in the US. He wants to take this to the US. In football terms the US will change, not the rest of the world.

    In other words, Jibber, you could not be more wrong.

  235. pedantic george

    This is a poor day.But I suppose

  236. @Arssesion

    Yea if M’villa had Kos price tag we would have had him last summer! I say we sign him let him and Song boss any and all midfield(did you M’villa throw Ibra off the ball last night, made me drool thinking about him and Song play side by side).

    @Paul-N
    a 7 letter word that many professionals think is comes from tehe 5 letter word, money.

  237. Limestonegunner at 3:42 pm

    I will let you know how I get on, assuming I can forego the Saturday afternoon Arsenal fix of course. By the way is the Kingston team you go to the one that plays at Kingsmeadow?

  238. Limestonegunner

    C, I think the fact that Arsenal 360, highlights packages, and an Arsenal match replay were being shown on the YES network in NY will help Arsenal far more than our connections to the Rams in St. Louis or Kroenke’s Denver teams, both of which are smallish markets. A club of Arsenal’s stature really needs to have associations and relationships that get it into the NY, LA, Chicago, Boston, DC, Miami, Dallas or Houston markets. We are the biggest club in London, a world capital. Why we are trapped in 15th and 22nd largest US cities/markets is because of Silent Sam.

    Unfortunately, we don’t have the chance to connect with the NY Red Bulls while Henry is there because they compete with Kroenke’s Rapids. The Yankees relationship and showing Arsenal matches on YES is only possible because Kroenke doesn’t own a baseball team.

    Again, Kroenke is getting into a great thing with Arsenal, but I think Arsenal could certainly do better. Them’s the breaks. We’ll still be fine, despite these opportunity costs, because AW is a magician and we are a big London club in a powerful, globally watched league.

  239. Limestonegunner

    Steww, alas, no, how fun it would be in London, UK; it’s in Kingston, Ontario and the third (or fourth depending on who is counting!) of Canadian “soccer”! It is the first professional team in our town of 120,000, so I’ve been going with my son so we can have a local team to support.

  240. pedantic george

    But actually

  241. @Khalifa

    I know mate I was just having a go lol

    @Paul-N

    and before him their were the Cosmos with Pele when futbol was growing in the US. The problem was that their was no “real” professional league for American’s to grow with so all of the major US soccer stars were off to Mexico and shit leagues around Europe until MLS and then players like Alexi Lalas and Friedel and the lot starting getting into sides in Serie A, EPL and Bundeshliga

  242. Limestonegunner

    Right on, Frank. Those changes are already starting to affect MLS. Eventually, to work, soccer in America will have to ditch the exceptionalism of US sports systems in the main. We aren’t going to see relegation soon, however, unless there is some way to compensate clubs that paid forty million dollars just to MLS just to establish and license themselves. Imagine doing that and then getting relegated the next year!

    As far as your prediction of the fracturing of the US. As long as California and NY can secede (and I can maintain citizenship as a former resident of both despite living “abroad” for the last decade), I’ll be delighted!

  243. “If arsenal can be succesful and make no mistake about it that means challenging for trophies consistently in the next few years we have a brilliant potential to grow our fanbase to a size that would make the cowboys tremble.”

    This is your wet dream USG. Not mine or any sensible football fan’s.

    ‘fanbase’, ‘competition with patriots, yankees, green bay ‘,

    You can stick your world USG.

    Jumpers for goalposts, isn’t it?

  244. Limestone – duh sorry brain functioning at way below par, knew you were nowhere near Kingston On Thames! No shame in supporting a team you can actually get into see, Nick Hornby fell for Cambridge without feeling he was in anyway unfaithful to arsenal. I myself used to go to Bristol Rovers and got quite passionate in my distaste for Bristol city.

  245. Limestonegunner

    I remember growing up a fan during the NASL era. It seemed like soccer was going to take off. One of my favourite memories of early grade school is of coaching staff of the original San Jose Earthquakes coming to my school to do a workshop on playing soccer–they even demonstrated an acrobatic back flip shot (better than Rooney’s celebrated goal of last season), which was thrilling.

    We all played soccer but after NASL collapsed is was a black hole for years for club football until the mid-late 90’s and the odd game from the PL would be shown.

  246. @LG

    I dont disagree with you on that at all. I think that is why Liverpool is very popular over here in the states because they are backed by a big market, Boston, here in the states not to mention Lebron James who every sports fan in the US has an opinion on but more importantly follow what he is doing and what he is affliated with. A friend of my wife’s, who is a huge LEbron fan, and her husband came over the other night to watch the Euros with us and she was wearing a Liverpool shirt so:
    I asked “Do you even know who Liverpool is?”

    she said ” A futbol club in England that Lebron James has money in”

    I said “they are a shit team”

    she said “I dont care because Lebron backs them and I want to find out more about them.”

  247. When mvilla signs songs off to spagbol land

  248. Well secession is constantly on the agenda is it not, LG? Minority groups at the moment. Just doesn’t get a lot of air time. But surely it will eventually become a national debate.

  249. I agree with Consolbob who is wiser by far than ten USG/Jabbas.
    in fact one of his chickens probably understands what it is to love our magnificent club better than USG ever will.

  250. Yogi, the chains, another one is loose.

  251. Limestonegunner

    Steww, no problem! It does seem allowable to have a lower league local and a larger club in the upper tiers. Do give us an update on the experience!

  252. I think England should be thrown out of euros if it is true Rooney was tested positive for a performance enhancing RUG

  253. @The font

    Stop that madness that you speak. Yogi put him in moderation he is talking complete in utter shit!

  254. Most crucial assuming RvP remains?
    hmm…

    we added Poldi…
    looks like we’re signing Giroud (who’s Kos’ pal)…
    Frimp, Jack, Diaby + Sagna are in the recovery room…
    TR @ best’ll probably give us 50% of a season…
    Rambo’s good for maybe 60%…@ top speed
    Song might be away btw 05/01 – 17/02…Gerv also…
    Coq’ll be backing up Sagna with Jenks…
    Fabianski & Mannone are probably done….Martinez could be 3rd choice…
    Arteta’ll probably give 70% as well…
    Chamakh, Bendtner, Vela, Denilson, Park seem surplus
    Squilly’s gone too..
    Miquel & Bartley will most likely be our 3rd CBs…add Yennaris @ RB if needed
    Ryo, Ox are ready…

    sorry Limestone, we have 3-way tie for most critical:

    a. experienced 2nd goalkeeper….Gordon & Jaaskeleinen come to mind
    b. strong defensive midfielder…M’Villa da sweeper
    c. quality 2nd attacking midfielder for @ least 60% of the season & 30mins per game…AA.

    ps. i can repeat if GUS feels the need?

  255. Talking of chickens, I’ve just starting running some lemon millefleur sablepoots, steww.

    Lovely they are and very keen on red, as long as it’s a strawberry.

  256. C such intelligent words must have just finished reading your beano

  257. Limestone @ 5:02:

    I agree with your concerns about our most advanced midfield role. The club has never really “clicked” unless the player in that position is in top form and there are legitimate questions about our current options, both from a health and durability standpoint with TR7 and inexperience and JW missing the whole season last year. However, the pool of outside talent for top attacking mids is limited and in general more expensive for the better players. That makes it unlikely that we will add an outside player who could fill that role next season, so if we end up another midfielder I suspect it would be the DM.

  258. @Aman

    couldn’t the AM position you speak of needing for the 30 mins or so could be filled by Jack and Diaby and say RVP and it would be a good way to ease them back in after injury (Jack and Diaby) and give Giroud more playing time(RVP). Arshavin would be great their for this I am sure(George did I redeem myself!) but Arsene doesn’t play him their.

  259. YW, I’ll see what I can do. The one-horned goat can sometimes be helpful in the “inexplicable happenings” department! Tee hee. USG’s posts are getting both longer and more frequent. This is a worry.

  260. Amazing. Chicken racing.

  261. Limestonegunner

    Frank, it has been since the 1830’s, erupted into a devastating civil war in the 1860’s, and may yet become an issue someday for different reasons. California on its own would be the the world’s 7th or 8th biggest economy, I believe. I’ve wanted it to secede from the US since I was but a teen.

    But I’d say Canada is even more ripe. We’ve had the Quebec sovereignty issue alive for the last four decades. Now the oil rich west is eager to keep its ill gotten gains after soaking up the welfare of Ontario and Quebec the last half century. Native sovereignty and treaty issues bedevil a loose federation of strong provinces, one of which only joined (Newfoundland) in 1949 and one of its territories (Nunavut) was only formed in 1999!

    Plus its cities are incredibly multi-ethnic and multi-cultural due to recent immigration. Sometimes it seems like Canada has a bit of an identity crisis and the only thing holding it together is its determination that it is not the US. If the US gets national healthcare and legalizes gay marriage, I am not sure it will survive!

  262. @the font

    When you say shit like “When mvilla signs songs off to spagbol land” you deserve moderation!

  263. Cascadia is mooted is it not which would be part of Canada and part of the US

  264. Limestonegunner

    C, yes–that’s just what I am talking about. We would like new folks to get the chance to learn about what makes Arsenal special. But if it doesn’t get onto their radar through big success or excellent marketing in the big markets globally, the chance to spread the good news about Arsenal’s style and approach under AW can go begging for superficial reasons!

  265. I guess if you change the rabbit for a fox and have it behind the runners on the circuit it might work. How do you get them to run in the same direction though?

  266. “carlos vela is going to earn himself a move to spain…zenit want arshavin back…pinky in the market as a 7.5mil 50k a week player”
    All is great news if it comes to fruition

    “maybe the wood is not as dead as what people originally thought..”
    The wood is dead, no doubt about that. But dead wood still has value if someone else sees a use for it.
    Perhaps an analogy would help. You are building a wooden home called The Emirates – a creation of beauty and style. You go about to collect the materials for your construction. It is a work in progress. You assemble great pieces of wood and discover that you no longer need three pieces of wood that drifted ashore from Russia, Mexico and Denmark. Nice pieces of wood – elegant and beautiful but completely inappropriate for the fortress building you envision. The wood no longer serves a purpose in the grand design you envision for your house. This excess wood is dead wood to you. What do you do? Well if someone is willing to pay for these pieces for their own purposes then by all means sell them and get whatever you can for them. These pieces may be deadwood inappropriate for constructing a house but they can still be valued by others who may use them for some different purposes:

    http://www.nextag.com/Driftwood-Art/stores-html
    http://www.driftwoodart.com/pages/frnture.html
    http://alldriftwoodfurniture.com/

    Moral of the story: One man’s dead wood is another man’s art

    In fact, if you look close enough you can see Carlos, Andrei and Nicklas’s faces in this piece:
    http://www.elizabethbradford.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/bald-head-dead-wood.jpg 😉 😉

  267. C,
    yes.
    Arsene didn’t but very easily could.
    Especially if we get M’V.

  268. More of a hop, skip and jump, Frank. They have very long feathers on their feet which makes actual running rather difficult.

  269. Limestonegunner

    No need to apologize, Aman. I wasn’t saying there are only two positions of interest. Just adding the question of AM to our priorities since we were talking about M’Vila. I said above we do need a veteran GK and I like both your suggestions. How to weigh between AM and DM is serious because we are talking much more money potentially than a backup veteran keeper, no?

  270. The font at 5:26 pm – “When mvilla signs songs off to spagbol land”

    Thanks, I needed to be more concerned about Song’s contract situation.

  271. Limestonegunner

    Bill, sensible thoughts there, but since the club might be contemplating a pretty serious outlay possibly for M’Vila, it is still a legit question of where the priority ought to be. In fact, what are the options for a solid DM of international class and experience in their twenties? the pool seems pretty thin there too, doesn’t it? So far we have been linked with just one name, M’Vila.

    Apart from financial considerations then, which do you see as more critical?

  272. C listen my friend song IMO let the team down on many occasions last season was not fully focused I admit on his day he is a superb player but there was two many days when it was not his day do you really think he will get in the team if we sign mvilla I am willing to have a wager he on his way to Italy before the start of season

  273. @LG

    Luckily for Kroenke I’m not the one who does the marketing because I would be using his money. The issue is that yes you can market in those areas but it has to be appealing to those that are involved with it. They must find a way like!

    @Aman
    I suppose with Song and M’villa it would work because then Arshavin wouldn’t really have to defend not that he does anyways(shit back in George’s shit house)!

  274. Limestonegunner

    Markus, I’ve been concerned about Song’s contract but a couple weeks ago someone (maybe even YW?) noted in response that he was signed through 2014 and not, as I thought, 2013. Still this would be the summer to try to extend it without going through any sort of saga and risks of losing him or his transfer value, which on quality and form has probably increased dramatically after his last couple of seasons. We’ll probably have to pay the man a nice increase!

  275. Great video, Cb. Can you get them to do anything else?

  276. Quick, get the dart gun this one needs stopping and fast.

  277. Limestonegunner in all due respect have looked at the opta stats on song

  278. Lime,
    no need at all to buy an AM this season with our CM backlog.
    its the least important of the three, for 2012/13.

    Frank,
    what states in your view are the most likely to seek secession first?
    #1 for me is TX

  279. @the font

    Could some of that not be due to fatigue. you say let the team down, you must drinking or on the pipe right now. How many times did he constantly do his job while also pushing foward. Do I admit he had some bad matches, yes but every player had those matches to where “they let the team down”. You could say the same about Verm for maurading foward all the time or RVP for not scoring in the matches that we needed him or not finishing that goal against Milan. Maybe Song has set the bar that high with his play that when he is not playing exceptional you feel he has let the team down while still being solid. Again every player has lulls in play but if we were to say fuck off everytime a player had a lull Kos, Verm, Rosicky, Theo, RVP, Gervinho, Ramsey, Sagna, Gibbs, Santos, Szcny hell even Arsene wouldn’t be here.

  280. After RVP who is first on your team sheet folks. One name no prevarication. Oh and not counting our keeper as that’s obvious.

  281. Well, They lay the odd egg, Frank but really their main use is just to make people go ‘Ahhh!’

  282. Isn’t the Union indissolvable?

    Hence the little contretemps in the 1860’s.

  283. Song deserves an increase, in my view

  284. @Steww

    Song!

  285. Do you mean they only lay every other egg,CB?

  286. Remember when i said life is not better without aclf? …. I lied. Pfft

  287. @Steww,
    SONG!

  288. Chezzer * sags* Gibbs kos*. Verm * m.villa* jack* poldy Walcott Rvp * ox
    *auto start. . Bench arteta gervino giroud merts Ramey coqelin santos diaby

  289. Upper Street Gooner | June 20, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    Dexter

    ”Hence the fact that when the US got the world Cup in 94 How the fuck did that happen?)”

    Opening up new markets.
    ——————–
    That was the point I was making, albeit, rather sarcastically.

    CBob

    Hear hear my friend. That vision of a football future is abhorent to me too. All it means, is more money for the cream and higher prices, either through the turnstiles or via telecommunication for the supporters.

    I joked a while back, that I can see a time when teams play infront of ‘virtual stadia, with fans superimposed on and sound effects added for the benefit of the TV/Internet/optical brain implant device audience.

    Khali;

    You are funny as fuck mate and I too feel your pain. The nature of today’s ‘debate’ is just Zzzzzzville…

  290. As for the legality of secession, I believe it is very complicated, and of course they set the precedent for revolution in 1776. So that remains a possibility. Interesting to see it happen, though peacefully of course.

  291. Upper Street Gooner

    Consolbob

    Unfortunately for you aw and ig see this as the way forward. They understand that to compete in the future one must grow there revenue streams. This means monitising all our wonderful loyal foreign fans.

    You choose to post on one of the most geographically diverse arsenal blogs. Its the “business” of football which brought these fans to us.

    I may work in that industry now but as has been stated before ii live in the area was brought up in the area . My father and his brothers are were season ticket holders as was his father. My brother and I plus 4 cousins all still hold season tickets.

    If you hate it its tough as its happening. Arsenal can even try and flourish in this new world or fail. You either like the modern arsenal or you don’t but we will only get bigger and less reliant on the native fans this is the way of the world

  292. I have to disagree as Santos is 1st chioce for many mate along with Mert for me. Interesting thought I just had though:

    With a healthy Diaby and Mozart and all the hype surrounding Ox and RVP playing centrally, who would you start or who should we start based on how we want to play with quick 1-2 touch passing and exploiting our pace all over the pitch? For me it would be Mozart with RVP as the striker and if Mozart goes down a healthy Jack or Diaby!

  293. peacefully..?….right
    …AZ & NM next

  294. Limestone:

    Tough question. You know my neurosis with our defense. For next season I think we could get by with our current group of DM players. The AM position is so important to our attacking solidarity that if all else was equal and we could add a player of similar quality level at one position or the other but not both then I think adding a top quality attacking mid would be a higher priority. However, I don’t think that there is a realistic chance of us adding one of those and I think M’Villa is a real possibility. Hope that makes sense.

  295. the font;

    I thought you were the font, but you have changed man! No longer are you the font! 🙂

    I can understand your thinking, but for me, Song was on the whole, excellent for us. Towrds the end of the season, his levels dropped off, more likely due to fatigue and the fact we could not rotate enough. Coquelin wasnt ready, as was shown vs WBA IMO. having Arteta, Song, Wilshere and yes that french bloke we have been linked with would give us an amazing array of talent in the centre of midfield and that’s without mentioning others.

    I have some concerns that one of the 3 who are getting towards the final year of their deals may leave, but it has nothing to do with us signing YM’V

  296. C,
    I pray u get to see AA-TR-RvP sweeping towards an 18-yard box..
    it is such a turn on
    like when Cesc-Hleb-TR used to do it

    Ox still has soooooo much to learn to play in CM @ their level
    Diaby?..just needs to be fit. I don’t see him in this conversation yet.

  297. “This means monitising all our wonderful loyal foreign fans. ”

    Does this actually mean anything?

    Eggs are never even Frank.

  298. corr: I pray we get to see AA-TR-RvP sweeping towards an 18-yard box again…

  299. @Aman

    I was going by the 11 that The Font had. Personally I agree with you Ox coming off the bench not to mention rotating with Theo.

    Yea I can only imagine !

  300. Mi bredrin Dex, you rate a player based on one performance? blow wow!

  301. it feeds GUS cbob,
    keeps the wisdom flowing profusely

  302. Actually it is possible that Arsenal is flourishing under its own business model. It is equally possible that SK wants very much to use it as a way of running his clubs elsewhere. Perhaps we have something very valuable indeed. Up the Arse.

  303. PaulN

    Nah spar, it was the fact he was not given more opportunities in that position man. I honestly thought he was well ready, the fact AW didnt play him there earlier and then when he was thrown in, he was, to say the least, out of his depth, kinda shows that. To me.

    But, after another pre-season, who knows? he may well be, but as I said before, he will be deployed at RB for a few months while Sagna gets fit again.

    No diss on Francis, he is my boy! 🙂

  304. Of course the club is trying to find ways of increasing revenue, either through merchandising, naming rights, opening up new markets etc. They HAVE to, given the nature of some of their competitors.

    I dont think you get the real point man to be honest as you seem genuinely happy about this prospect of a faceless multinational feel to AFC.

    Football lost its soul a long time ago and in the rush to grab overseas markets and fanbases, there is a real possiblity that the ‘brand’ loyalty of your hard core football fan, something that really must give marketeers wet dreams, will be lost as ‘fans’ simply move from one successful team, to the next. Like they do with other brands.

    Sounds far fetched perhaps, but given some of the stuff I have had to endure on here today, not that fantastical, to me anyway

  305. Haha Dex, reading some of the comments on NFL, Sms and kkb made my eyes bleed. Now i know what it feels like to be a stoke rc fan.
    But, you’re scaring me man, so you think one of our important players is going to leave? Jeez man, thanks a lot for the good news.

  306. Upper Street Gooner

    Consolbob

    Look at this way. How many american fans do we have just on this blog. Think how much they love the club, what would they pay to go watch epl arsenal vs wigan near them. What would epl football fans who aren’t even arsenal fans pay for the real deal. Its all very good an well having fans liking your page on twiiter and facebook but in reality the club wants you to “show them the money”.

    So as much as yogi can find us abstaining on something there are hundreds of quotes attributed to ig, tf and aw which go along the lines of rewarding our wonderful foreign fans in reality this means we want to start making money out of them as they care just as passiently about the club as native gooners. That’s what that means

  307. Gus? Remind me Dex, I’m sure I’ve read that before today.

  308. CBob;

    That new rule brought in about ‘hostile’ shareholders is very interesting, isnt it? What other club in the top flight has a situation similar to ours? I mean, is this new rule come about because Gazidis has petitioned them? Or are there real concerns it could happen more regularly?

    Sorry, not asking you all those questions personally! Just hypothesising!

  309. pedantic george

    The font of no knowledge.
    I get the name now

  310. khali;

    Yeah, sorry man. I am not basing it on anything, just a feeling, not that I want it to be right you understand! WE have 3 players with one year remaining. Just the odds of all re-signing are quite long, IMO. I can understand what happened with RvP; his injury record probably meant the club were very cautious with him, BEFORE last season, then the ball moved soooo much into his court, he hasnt let the club see it for months! That begs the question, what was the deal with Theo and Song? Theo is allegedly after big bucks and for me, he deserves a wage similar to other senior 1st teamers, as does Song. If Wayne Bridge is on £90k a week well! 🙂

    I am just worried is all, nothing concretet whatsoever.

  311. GUS,
    I’d wager that there’d be 3 times as many nigerians on ACLF than americans if they had constant power supply.

  312. That must have been a different font.

  313. corr: 10 times as many!

  314. Upper Street Gooner

    Dexter

    Yup you got it. Its these same fans, some of them at least who start supporting the club becuase of our new brand of football who worship the modern arsenal but none of its history. Its some of these same fans that you agree with on a plethora of things day to day but when it comes to the crunch you hate what it is doing to your club. George your best mate said he wouldn’t support us if we played negative football. Go figure.

  315. Dex, yea i understand. Nothing ever goes perfect or as well as we would like when it comes to arsenal so there might be some tears shed before the end of august.

  316. pedantic george

    I would not.Because I am not a hypocrite Jibber.Why would I?Why would I want to?

    2

  317. Upper Street Gooner

    Dexter

    How many current arsenal 1st team squad players do you think are currently paid more than theo, not many.

    That’s the problem with the current system. The next pay bracket for him in the current sytem is elite. We pay theo that cash what stops others in his current band doing the same. Its a fine line. As you may have noticed we already have a huge wage bill

  318. pedantic george

    2nd name on team sheet is Laurent Koscielny

  319. pedantic george

    We don’t have a huge first team wage bill however.

    Dexter ,DNFTT

  320. pedantic george

    Ha.

  321. First names on team sheet: Rvp, Sagna, Koscielny, Arterta, Song, Walcott – In that order.

    If M’villa signs for us, something’s gotta give.

  322. good evening..

    re mvilla.. if the lad signs i wouldnt necessarily take it as songs off anywhere..

    song has really come on leaps and bounds and his assists last year were important to us..
    very important..
    a side affect of him showing off his cesc like qualities was him not being all that great at protecting our boys at the back..
    there is a stat somewhere (i shall try to find it) that has song second in the list of PL players most times dribbled passed..
    thats not too great, not for song, that never used to happen before last year so its obvious his game totally changed…i think first on the list was that rocha bloke who played upfront for blackburn so song really let his defensive game go pretty much to shit really..id go as far to say it was fucking pathetic, but arteta recognised it early on and quickly transformed his game into playing infront of the cb’s..
    but thats not artetas job really, keeping possession was never a problem nor was passing it out from the back…getting the ball back was however a problem..and there were plenty of times last season our midfield got bypassed time and time again..becuase nobody was closing gaps, putting in tackles or breaking up play and we lost alot of games conceding stupid goals we could have so easily stopped if we were a bit tighter in the middle..

    AW has a decision..he either puts the reigns back on song and maybe we dont get the assists we were getting last year or he lets song go all out and he uses someone else to be the warrior in the middle..
    we could use frimpong, but hes very inexperienced and hes had two major injurys in the last 2 years that will severely hold him back, i doubt he will be fit for the start of the year and may possibly be loaned out again after xmas..
    le coq is some fucking player, i rate him as highly as i do jack but i must confess i like him as a wingback, so much so i aint worried about sagnas legs breaks.. (sagna by the way would be my choice behind robin, steww)
    so for me, mvila would be an excellent addition as it allows us to develop song into an assist machine next season without fear of conceding goals like a pub team..

  323. pedantic george

    OK
    Boil -Jabba

    Well if Yogi is stewing Sanga

  324. Limestonegunner

    Aman, wouldn’t say “no need”–clearly there is some need as last season showed. Rosicky was very good but not available the whole season. Ramsey did well but also struggled at times physically and mentally in the position but hopefully will progress. JW has never played there in the senior team and is coming back from a year injured. Diaby hasn’t been fit and isn’t that experienced in the role–it was Cesc’s and few of our other midfielders can or have reproduced the invention and passing skill required–really only Rosicky has done this. We have lots of central midfielders but one bona fide attacking midfielder who can play comfortably and regularly to link midfield and attack and run the show. In fact, it is interesting that we have lots of central midfielders but few experienced and consistent DM and AM’s. Arteta, Jack, Ramsey, Diaby.

    However, with Song away in January, it is possible that we have greater need in DM. That’s the question. Is Coquelin enough. Maybe–I like him and think he’ll progress. We have plenty who can play alongside Song behind Rosicky, but questions of various sorts about them carrying the principal responsibility for breaking up play physically or moving forward to orchestrate our attack.

  325. Limestonegunner

    My first name is Arteta. Followed closely by Song and Koscielny.

  326. Ha, so Rvp is nobody’s first name, Funny.

  327. Limestonegunner

    The fact that Sagna is a clear starter yet RvP, WS, Song, Kos, and Arteta are immediate choices demonstrates that our first eleven has a strong core.

  328. Limestonegunner

    Steww said after RvP and WC, Khalifah.

  329. @LG

    Strongly agree with you!

  330. No jibber, I dont agree with the kind of fan I am on about, because they dont exist YET. The people I agree with, some of the time and the ones you despise sooooo much are funny, witty, interesting and decent Gooners.

    Your belittling of the frequenters on here is really sad man, you really dont need to add that to this or any debate. I mean, its all about the ‘debate’.

  331. Upper Street Gooner

    George

    Its just you’ve reguarly shited all over the gg era. You said you only started supporting us becuase of db10. You come from an area full of football clubs with tradition and history yet you joined us in 1997 , who did you support before, why did you change teams. Didn’t you change teams maybe you didn’t have a team…but you came to us becuase of a player and our football and you hate what we used to be. You agree with much of what hunter used to say and if there was ever a “fan” that dexter was just describing hunter is that man. The guy literally would support whichever club aw managed he actually hated arsenal.

    Its these fans who have no respect for our history and for the fact that styles of football are temporary who appear to annoy some.

    I see it as a natural progression as football becoming entertainment. I get you I get why you support arsenal I get why hunter likes us. Would you be there if we were relegated and played horrible football without aw……..?

  332. pedantic george

    I agree with khalifha.nearly,
    Rvp, , Koscielny,Rosicky,Sagna Arterta, Song, Walcott

  333. steww,
    (doing my best GUS impression)….my first name after Robin van Persie is Alex Song.

  334. Good question, Dex, re Gazidis I mean.

  335. LMS, ah i see. The first comment on ‘2nd choice’ i saw was PG’s.

  336. pedantic george

    That’s what happens when you are more interested in talking than listening Khalifah

  337. Theo’s still on about £50k judging by what gazidis said. So, upping that is not out of the question, IMO.

    Its still obscene and the wages are another stick to beat modern football with, but in the context that football resides in, £50k a week is a pittance!

  338. First name on the team sheet; Szcesny because you normally start from the back.

    WE have a very strong first 11; Szczesny; Sagna; Koscielny; PerM; Gibbs; Song; Arteta; Theo; Podolski; RvP.

    That’s ten definites as I see the squad NOW. There is a spot up for grabs IMO and that could be filled by several names, including Wilshere, Ramsey, Rosicky, Diaby or Arshavin. And I havent even mentioned Santos, Vermealen.

    However, the squad wasn’t strong enough last season, so strengthening it needs to happen and the signs are we will.

  339. steww,
    i do know the best answer.
    I ask the same question in the states and on other popular gunner blogs all the time,

    After our captain, the absolutely next most important player ,
    from the feedback i’ve statistically gotten over the last 21 months, 3 weeks, 8 days & 16 and three-quarter minutes from vintage & modern gooners all over mother Earth,
    is

    Alexandre DimitriSong Billong
    born September 9, 1987 in Douala, Cameroun
    joined Arsenal in 2005
    has played 133 times for us and has scored 7 times!

  340. PG 7:02, no comment.

    Favourite arsenal players: Rosicky, Sagna and Chamberlain – Vermalean used to be part of that lucky crew but something happened.
    Always had a thing for players that could beat their man with pace and skill, so mozart and ox had to be my personal favs. Sagna’s inclusion doesn’t need any explanation

  341. I would actually say that RVP and Sagna are joint first on the team sheet. Scoring goals is nice, but not many stop others from scoring as well as he does. Talking about world class again, if he is not, something is wrong to blow wow!

  342. Dexter, i like the way you gave us a glimpse of players on the bench like wilshere then left vermaelaen and santos last to make your point, nice touch. 🙂

    Seriously tho, i like the idea of having a tall defender at the back but you left our vice-captain on the bench.

  343. @Khalifha

    I don’t mind Mert starting ahead of Verm I actually endorse it! Have the Samba dancing Santos on the left with with 1 Frenchies and you have a solid back 4 that can defend, be organized, attack, pass and well keep clean sheets!

  344. Paul-N, dictionary defination of World Class simply means as good as the best.
    Sagna is as good as the best rightbacks around so no arguements there.

  345. USG

    You’re problem is that you wilfully misappropriate comments from the owners / board to suit your argument, even though you know full well that when IG talks of rewarding foreign fans, it is with tours. You say the novelty will wear off with tours? It will wear off with EPL matches against low-rank opposition as well, especially if, for example, Arsenal play one league game in Asia but then tour in Africa or America in the summer. They will be worse off than now.

    Fundamentally, your argument is a polemic for the sake of it. Every time your point is countered, you dismiss the viewpoint by manufacturing unsubstantiated opinion as fact. It isn’t. You try to dismiss the quotes by IG about Game 39? You might not like it but that is the position that the club took and nothing that he has said since has changed that stance.

    And when it is not a polemic, you add things in so frequently that the ground on which you stand is shifting constantly.

    To go back further,

    1. Where is your evidence that football fans will pay $200 or more for a ticket to see Arsenal v Wigan?
    2. Read what people like Rumminegge or Rosell (the top two in the ECA) say. They have the appetite for friendlies but not league matches.
    3. I never said that a super league was far-fetched. I said two things. One, there is no will for it at the moment as a replacement for a domestic leagues. Two, I said it won’t work with a salary cap

    My position is as per my comment at 3.13pm:

    A European League will happen but it will be a replacement for the Champions and Europa Leagues, split into divisions with qualification based on domestic performance.

    Now what part of that don’t you understand? If you want to misquote me or put out a false statement about my position on something, best to…well, not do it at all.

  346. C, i just can’t imagine Verm on the bench. Comeon man, i mean his nickname is VERMINATOR for God’s sake lol, we can’t leave someone with a name like VERMINATOR on the bench, can we?

  347. @Khalifha

    Yes but only for the Big Fucking German! I mean not only is he German but is a Big Fucking German which means that well he is a Big Fucking German, ,lol!

  348. Why am I getting slated for saying mvilla will replace song statistically he will play dm which song only occasionally plays now arteta played that role for most of the season while song roamed in my IMO jack will play in songs position and mvilla will play in artetas I think song is too good to sit on the bench so IMHO he will leave do I want him to leave no but reading between the lines thats a strong possibilty by the way I am the original and best font

  349. I ran into a man from Stoke recently, he said “the women are always eating sausage rolls.”

    Is this true?

  350. @the font

    Your logic I can respect and understand. Not sure though about it working out though. Could the signing of M’villa be for Arteta not having legs for a whole season or not sure how he will come back. Not to mention M’villa can play DM and Song could play CM or box-to-box and Jack pushing foward. But given these 3 on the pitch at the same time their wouldn’t necessarily be any specific position as all three can interchange seamlessly making tackles, playing the killer pass, bossing, controlling, the match. I think that would be the ultimate midfield, 3 midfielders that can interchange and the level not drop in the interchanging. Well we just happen to have 3 already Arteta, Jack and Song and are supposably(hurry and put pen to paper) going to sign a 4th.

  351. the point was stupid to begin with..

  352. C give me your 11 and best bench

  353. the richer the clubs get the higher the wages and the fees..

    i tell you what they want to put a cap on, agents..stop the agents and let the clubs take control of their players and you’ll find wages will fall..

    tell the clubs to fuck off with the cash spunkage as well..
    its a game of footy, its about fair play, do it properly and if you feel the urge to splash 85mil then donate it to charity..

    cap agents and cap spunkers and we are on to a winner..

  354. C @ 5:10 pm

    I almost posted that same scenario.

    I was skimming through the France – Sweden match and caught that moment where M’vila took the ball away from Ibrahimovic; and it looked so effortless.

    I trust the manager will do what he can or keep faith in our own youngsters.

  355. Khalifha @ 7:29:

    “we can’t leave someone with a name like VERMINATOR on the bench, can we?”

    I certainly hope we do if he doesn’t stop ruining our defensive organization by bombing forward every time we have possession of the ball.

  356. We needed Song to push forward. The issue we had was not Song getting forward but Ramsey not knowing how to rotate with him the way Arteta did. Had Song not pushed forward, we may be in the Spurs place; 4th and no CL Footy.

  357. Well done Yogi,
    think u just ran GUS out of the building..again, @ 7:28.

    JonJon,
    “tell the clubs to fuck off with the cash spunkage as well”.

    ..how I wish..
    O how I wish,
    alas we are not german
    most of us seek the spunk
    we live for the spunk
    we’d die for tha spunk!

  358. @the font

    Sczny
    Sagna—Mert—Kos—Santos
    ——M’vill—-Song——
    ———-Mozart——-
    Theo——-RVP——–Podolski

    2nd keeper, Verm, Ox, Gervinho, Arteta, Jack, Giroud

  359. Bill, it’s obvious you love the defence as much as PG loves Andrey, man its funny seeing you get frustrated.
    Now i know you mentioned bringing in a defensive coach(not going to happen) what else do you have in mind to improve le defénce.

    C, haha, good one. BFG needs his own sign at the emirates.

  360. I must’ve deleted the rest of my bench Le Coq

    naturally it would change if we didn’t sign M’villa and then Arteta would slide in beside Song and Gibbs would make the bench.

  361. i concur vit Paul-N.
    Rambo slowed the game down constantly
    A swifter decision maker in the final 3rd he is.

    once TR’s planets aligned, it was off to the bench for Aaron
    but he will come good.
    he’s got IT.

  362. @Khalifha

    Yea he does probably 1 whole side fo the Emirates. Damn was just thinking Kos doesn’t have a nickname, like the Verminator or the Big Fucking German! any takers?!?!?!?!?

  363. pedantic george

    Only Arsene knows what the first 11 is likely to be.

  364. preferences for team selection

    1. kos
    2. rvp
    3. rosicky & arteta
    5. song
    6. sagna

  365. c,
    ..how about JustKos?

  366. pedantic george

    Laurent Koscielny should have a swashbuckling French like nick name .I suggest “The pocketeer”

  367. @PG

    Stop taking away the fun!

    @Aman

    So far Aman comes in with “Kos”.
    any other takers?

  368. PG comes with “The Pocketeer”
    any other takers?

  369. Some of the guys have been talking about fever pitch if you haven’t read the book you must even catch the film this book could have been written about me it was exactly my era and the feelings captured are a Mirror image of my feelings I gave the book to my daughter who is 27 and being 25 years younger then me she said she had related to the book as well although in a different era

  370. pedantic george

    No ,I have decreed “The Pocketeer”.

  371. Ok so PG comes with “The Pocketeer”

    and Aman comes with “Kos”

    the naming is closing in 1 min so get your names in?!?!?!?!?!?!?

  372. Arsesession, starting at the number 6?

  373. Diabys squad nickname is the cleaner we should call kos bubbly after Laurent Perrier French champagne

  374. Aman – Kos

    PG – The Pocketeer

    the font – Bubbly after Laurent Perrier French Champagne

    Going……

  375. Limestonegunner

    Pocketeer, not that swashbuckling!

    Can’t think of a good one either though. Apparently his name in Polish means something like priest or church figure, i.e. ecclesiastic. What about something along these lines? The Priest, the Canon (homonym intended!), the Bishop, the Confessor, the holy roller, the exorcist, church mouse, or
    Defender of the faith, the hermit, the saint, the anointed, hocus pocus, …

  376. RVP and WC are joined by Arteta Sagna Song and The Kosh then. Thanks for taking part. Next question. One answer no equivocation. best song of all time.

  377. @LG

    Damnit its closed HAHAHAHAHAHA.
    Fine I’ll accept your entry but NO MAS!!!!!!

  378. C!, Wait! I got it man.

    From this moment henceforth, Kos shall be known as ……. BOSSCIELNY.

    Besides, isn’t this supposed to be his nickname anyways.

  379. @Khalifha

    I like it!!!!!!!!!!

  380. Spme of the French players call Kos, ‘Lolo’

  381. Excuse me it’s The Kosh. Messi is still dizzy from it. No argument.

  382. Or we could just call him ‘All your best strikers are inside his brest pocket’ – kindah long tho.

  383. C, not fair man.
    I said JusKos NOT Kos!

  384. I hear by declare(ofcourse given Yogi’s permission) that now and forever more on ACLF Laurent Koscienly will now be known as BOSSCIELNY!!!!

    Any objections, great and if you did have 1 I dont care!

  385. C, good! I thought i was late.

  386. or Kospirator
    or Koshiny
    or Oh My Kosh!

  387. off i go
    till tomorrow

  388. BOSSCIELNY is already used on twitter

  389. Yea. * Time for theirry henry knee slide celebration *

    Damn, my knees!

  390. Nope my question my decision! BOSSCIELNY!!!!!! now you can call him whatever you want but I suggest BOSSCIELNY.

    So now we have the Verminator, the Big Fucking German and BOSSCIELNY! With names like those honestly as a striker I wouldn’t show up on match day, nope just sit in the pub and drink the match away!

  391. @Aman

    Those last ditch efforts were as bad as that sideline ref yesterday not allowing that CLEAR goal against England. Later!

    @Khalifha

    Nope just in time. Don’t go sliding on the carpet my knees are still recovering from the season! Congratulations though on your victory!

  392. pedantic george

    I decreed first.
    I shotgunned it.
    Dups
    surely a Musketeer is swashbuckling ? He puts strikers in his pocket .So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Pocketeer.
    You can’t use BOSSCIELNY ,like Dups said .it spoken for on twitter.

  393. O well I tried but not Pocketeer either!

  394. @PG

    I said your decree didn’t count because I was still giving people a chance to throw their name in!

  395. pedantic george

    You Americans don’t get swash-buckle.All guns ans guided missiles.Pah.

  396. pedantic george

    C,you are already on thin ice .A few side swipes at my little Tsar today that I haven’t forgiven you for.

  397. @PG

    Yea I was waiting for this but what can I do to get back on your good side.

    Arshavin is returning to the Emirates and will help RVP, Podolski, Theo and the lot win the PL and CL!

  398. The best name for Kos & BFG is THE WALL

  399. Zimpaul – Congrats on the win my friend, will raise a glass to you tonight 🙂

    C’Bob – “Jumpers for goal posts” – now those were the days!! In the school playground just before school started, again at lunch time and maybe even a quick game after school while you were waiting to get picked up by Mom. Out on the road as soon as homework was done, jumpers, schoolbags, anything you could get your hands on. Good times 🙂

  400. how many windows did you smash? 😉

    good times, good stuff..

  401. The Arse in the Gamb

    I love to imagine that for some players it is not about the money, but then we see Drogba off to China and it makes me worry about our RvP.
    Don’t get me wrong I am glad that Drogba will not be darkening our goal line any more, but surely $100,000 a week is enough to stay and play in a league where you are more than just a jolly trinket.
    The only plus to that story is that it shows that none of the current Blue Manchester will be off anywhere – unless on subsidised loan, or at the end of their contracts – for once a player has received these bank swelling pay packets, they feel as self important as Emperor Bokassa himself felt, and they can never come down for fear that someone may call them naked – even if it means going to play in some unspeakably horrible place for disgusting people who didn’t just invent the AK47.
    Things could be worse, some unspeakable Russian Mafia pig nearly ate us like a pie and then all this dung would have been on our doorstep and we would have just had to like it.

  402. Crikey – I wonder if he would admit privately that he wishes he never left us?

    http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7831121/

  403. I honestly think Rvp would remain this year and would want him to remain this year!!If he is there we have a very potent strike force with lot of options and for once with a good pre season with our new signings things would look rosy for us!!

    Have you seen stewart robson’s comments on RVp,koscieny and wenger??he says wenger’s comments are typical Arsene wenger’s comments and Arsene cannot say Rvp is a champion cause he has won nothing with us for 7 years.He says koscielny is raggid ,gives away free kicks and is good only with poor teams and would get found out against better teams.

    why we employ a man who is so critical of Arsenal is beyond me!!Being critical is right but he is just slagging us off everywhere!!

  404. Jonny – In as much as he deserves his fate, what the hell does this mean: “It could be Alberto Aquilani or someone else, as he is a Liverpool player and we’re not in talks with them.”

    If only every rumour was so easy to see through!!

  405. In a very vain attempt to hang out with Gains’69, here is my ‘donation’ to the charity we like to call “Music Thursdays”. YW I make no apologies, as I was out celebrating ZimPaul’s victory! (It has been 10 years you know!)

  406. Robson is a cunt.
    Just saying

  407. Just seen this on twitter. Made my day

    http://twitpic.com/9yi8kt

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