Guest Post: Long Distance Love Affair

Guest post time with a certain poster from Blackburn holding the reins today. Over to you, PG (@Blackburngeorge)…

Come back Sergei, Arsenal is this way

I could start by explaining how I became an Arsenal fan. But it does not really matter how you come to love the club. All that really matter is that you do.

In the past it was a simple matter, you supported your local club, your hometown team. If you lived in a large city you might get the choice of teams which may include some teams in the top division. But in reality your choice would have been made before you were even born. Your team was your father’s team, as it was his father’s. Generations lived in the same catchment area and supported the same team.

But things have changed dramatically in the Premiership era. There are many contributing factors like mobility of labour, the breakup of local communities. But more so it was the arrival of saturation coverage compliments of Sky, which changed the landscape. All of a sudden it was possible to follow a team from afar. You could watch a team and become attached, without ever seeing a live game; without visiting the area where the team is based; without even visiting the country where they play.

Now the old fans, the local fans, they were born into the club, like being born into a family. They were, and indeed are, stuck with the hand they were dealt, like it or not. Of course this fan was fairly happy no matter what his team achieved, because unless you live within walking distance of say, Anfield, your expectations were fixed around the level your local club had always been in the habit of delivering. Usually, not a lot. This was normal, you went to watch with your mates and just enjoyed the football and the camaraderie.

New fans have chosen their team. Fallen in love with it, sort of married it. But although you may be deeply passionate about your chosen “remote” club, it throws up some previously unknown problems. Likely, most new fans were attracted to their new remote club because it was achieving a high level of success. If the club becomes less successful, then the new fan might feel a sense of disappointment. They likely expected the success to continue and feel a sense of entitlement because they bought into the success. And they want it back. Pronto.

So now they are frustrated. What can they do? It is a bit late to change club, they are fans now, in love, in a committed relationship. They can’t go to the pub and have a moan up, because no one cares about their team, or at least very few do.

OK, here is my point now.

So there I am in Blackburn and I want to talk football but who do I talk too? I don’t know one other person in the area who supports Arsenal. None of my real life friends could care less. All I have is myself. And that is company I have never liked.

So I go on-line.

I start reading some blogs and choose to comment on the ones whose tone most suits my mood and opinions. I start putting the club to rights. Then I came across “A Cultured Left Foot” . Jackpot. A whole load of people who seem to have the same values as me.

Start posting. More posting. Endless posting it must seem to many. Then something wonderful happens. People start talking back. Some agreeing, some not so much, but relationships are being formed. Friends are being made and some adversaries too.

But I now have “mates” to banter with. To take the mickey out of ,or be taken the mickey of by. There are people to educate my on the history of the club, there are many who know much more about the game than me to help me understand the dynamics of the team, tactics and formations. And those who are so passionate that I am infected by it, even more than before.

Since I became a regular poster on ACLF my relationship and love for Arsenal is stronger than ever. The blog gives me what the old type fan always had. A community, friendships and an outlet for frustrations. Indeed, a feeling of involvement that was previously lacking.

So I suppose what I am saying is that in the modern world of remote fans, blogs and other social networking is a very important part of feeling part of something bigger. In our case that is The Arsenal in all its majesty.

Thanks PG. ’til Tomorrow.

Posted on May 20, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 221 Comments.

  1. The history books will always say Chelsea and not Arsenal were the first London team to win the Champions league

  2. Ray Kennedy Thierry Henry Alex Helb Gio Van Bronkhurst Silvinho and now Cashley Cole all ex Arsenal players who all left us and went on to win the CL.while are total number of our wins is nil
    Yet Wenger keeps banging on about 15 years in the CL
    Tomorrow the CL trophy comes back to London but not to North London.Hope you are happy back in Denver Mr Kroenke

  3. better than it going to WHL… way to go off topic though.

  4. First?

    Great post, PG! Kudos to YW for allowing PG to post.

    Good morning from the Philippines!

  5. Clerkenwell Gooner

    Magnanimous enough to feel happy for Torres and Drogba, great players both, as they move into the twilight zone of their careers. Basically a freaky result.

    But I still quite like our way of trying to win. Not sure I want anything Usmanov or Stan are peddling.

    Thank fuck we got 3rd, though.

  6. How right my friend. COYG forever

  7. mark the kiwigooner

    Torres moving into the twilight of his career? You are having a laugh!

  8. Nice post!! supporting a team from afar is hard…especially because of the odd hours (for us) when the game is aired..I can associate with you when u say that u can’t go to the bar and have a banter about football.

    on another note, I’m really disapponited Chelsea won. But Bayern were so wasteful. The muller sub seemed stupid and the turning point for me, as Chelsea got more possession after that.

  9. PG – Great post buddy! You hit the nail on the head with how you described finding ACLF and how it transformed you and how you supported The Arsenal, I felt the very same. I would be interested to know how long you sat back and read the blog before you posted? Personally, I had read the blog on and off for a few weeks but never posted until the season started to really get going and I started to recognise some posters. I reckon that was about 5 years ago. Some of them have moved on but others remain. A few even pop back in every now and then. As you rightly said, it is our own community, scattered all around the world with The Arsenal being the glue that binds us all together. We may differ in our opinions from time to time, some even do so all of the time, but in the end we all want the same thing: success for The Arsenal. It is just a pity we have to wait so long to see them in action again!!

  10. Good post PG, that is exactly how a remote fan feels. Kudos!

  11. I personally wanted Beryan to win, but just befor Ruben’s penalty intuition told me it was Chealsae’s cup, I knew and said he was gonna miss that kick, his body language was clear, the whole Beryan team was so wasteful and shocking, the same like watching the typical morden day Arsenal play. How on Earth did they manage to do that when everything was going for them; home crowd, Platini, suspensions, etc?
    If yesterday did not change Wenger and the board’s mind about some of their rigid and outdated transfer policies and money then we are really doomed. I wonder what was going through RVP’s mind watching Arshley Cole lift the trophy yesterday? He’s probably and finaly made up his mind now.
    Thanks PG for speaking on the behalf of some of us who are long distance fans, good post. Though in my country and city we have hundreds of thousands of Arsenal, united and Chelsiea fans, so we banter a lot, even get into some fight with the manc regularly. Yesterday the sky was so blue everywhere even before the kick off, reminded me of when we the finals a few years ago, difference is we lost they won yesterday.
    In my office, the CEO is a blue, my immediate boss is a Gunner too, one other senior manager is a United fan, but among the staff we are more and the noiciest, problem now is I was so vocal telling the Chelsea guys they will lose, so I’ve been trying to work out how I will congratulate them on Monday.

  12. Nice post PG..

    @ John T: At least three of the ex-players names had very little to with their new teams CL success and of the players named only Ray Kennedy & Ashley Cole was in their prime ..

  13. Interested to learn at what point does Chelsea enter next term’s CL. If it is at 4th, do they have to qualify for the KO stage? Or do the whole 4 from the EPL go straight into the KO stage? Or (oops) do we drop to 4th and have to qualify yet again?

  14. pedantic george

    both teams go through to the group stages directly nicky

  15. Gerry Lennon

    Yep, good post. Although not all fans from afar expect a continuous line of success. Some of us have a greater sense of reality?
    It seems that we have now fully entered the era where money does buy success. Sad but but true. Will FFP make a difference? Who knows. Arsenal are different, so when success comes it will be all the sweeter?
    When it comes to commenting on matters Arsenal, I just wish people would not just believe everything they read. For some I am sure they believe the only way RVP will stay is if he comes back injured?? Sadly, a possibility, thinking back a couple of years? I do not know what the sticking point is with his contract, but I can make a guess. I can also disagree with what ‘appears’ to be the policy of blowing the transfer budget on keeping one player? But it is only my view, and it is not based on fact. Commonsense tells me that Robin has a big decision to make, and it will say more about him as a person if he is not swayed by the last couple of trophy winners?

  16. A Pedantic George,
    Thanks for that, I presume that the EPL will provide 4 teams direct into the group stages in 2012/3….not bad!!

  17. Bananas

  18. Sensational Arsenal

    nice post. I am a remote fan too. When I was in UK i could not afford to go to a game, hell I couldnt even afford the Sky subcription (student). I wasnt really into football until a few years ago. In my high school in India, i used to overhear the “cool gangs” talk about football clubs and whenever they mentioned Arsenal i detected a special awe. I was oblivious to the achievements of the Invincibles. However, I was always pulled to Arsenal in the little contact I came with football. I am embarrassed too that during that time I also liked the Real Madrid team with players like Ronaldo, Beckham, Roberto Carlos, Zidane, etc. (It was the hyped team then).

    Somehow as I got more and more into football, i got more and more drawn into Arsenal. I started following them through BBC text, moved onto live streams and now to Espn. Arsenal have not anything when and since I started supporting them. I would really love them to. No other football club deserves it more. However, Arsenal’s success is not the reason I follow them. It is the art of football, the way they play, the way the players conduct themselves on the pitch (mostly), the philosophy, not buying titles, etc. In today’s current climate, Arsenal stands like a beacon to me. I can also relate to it, because it compares to my life and the mad dash at any cost to “success” by people around me.

    I dont care if many clubs become like Chelsea and Manchester City. It will be all the more sweeter to beat many of them. I cant bear Arsenal becoming one of them though.

  19. PG, very nice write-up, am actually suprised that you could come up with something good. But, you did not mention how long it took you to find aclf, do you know the blogs i read before stumbling across mean lean’s arsenal vision and aclf, it was like going through gotham city with a spurs flag shoved up my ass – so painful. Funny story tho, i only started reading afc blogs last year, arsenal vision was my first, i stumbled across le grave and the comments there just made me cringe, but surprisingly my first impression of aclf was not a good one, i was not sure if yogi was pro-arsenal or doomsday merchant, he wasn’t negative but a little critical so i stopped reading the blog and to be honest i was not interested in reading any shit that was critical of arsenal during that september/october period, i yearned for sunshine,rainbow and optimism. so for that i thank mean lean for pulling me through.
    Finally, the day i fell in love with aclf was after the 5-3 victory against chelsea, i was going through arsenal blogs for match reports but i didn’t know that i too was about to hit the jackpot. After reading yogi’s match review i was hooked, it was eloquent, precise, wonderful etceterra, after that i made sure i had my daily dose of aclf.
    Ladies and gents, that is the story of my date with destiny.

  20. What a star you are, SA

  21. george, you really sure we are in the group phase directly?

    bastard german commentator said we are now in the playoffs. and i couldnt sleep (cos i STILL have no internet at home) and have to wait till now to come to the library to use the internet so i could ask you guys.

    british commentators are downright biased, while german commentators love to give u tidbits of info, which arent always true. and i hate that.

  22. Just Another Luke

    Right time to profess that I’m a Gooner from Singapore. What attracted me to Arsenal were Henry, Wengerball and Wenger. I agree wholeheartedly with the philosophies of AFC and am less bothered by the long and winding road taken in the quest for the next trophy against overwhelming odds. Occasionally, postings from gooners less culturally attuned to the English do get misunderstood as doubting thomases and get slammed. It doesn’t really bother me as I’ll be 60 soon and don’t see value in disproportionate force in defense or counter attacks.

    Cheers to PG for a fine posting.

  23. ’tis true korihikage, straight into the group phase, along with the top 3.

  24. SA wrote for me too. Well done. When Arsenal win something it will be sweeter and the media will have to dwell on it. Just imagine the comparisons….Abramovich spent 1.8bn to win the CL, Sheikh Mansour 1bn to win the PL. Both during the time Arsenal were building for the future…

  25. Surely as its Spurs place the chavs are taking then its gotta be Chelsea to do a qualifier , and The Arsenal go straight into group stage – right?

  26. I was born 3 miles from Highbury and started following Arsenal after my first visit when about 9 years old. Now I live in Chesterfield. I would love to actually meet ACLFers if any live close by or manage to get to the odd game….

  27. Deise,

    No, all English teams are in the group phase.

  28. Thats kinda doubly harsh on Spurs then aint it. Not only did they lose their place but the cnuts that took it dont even have to go through the worry of a qualifier. So what happens to the team spurs would have played in the qualifier? Who else loses out because of the chavs win?

  29. Its Anderlecht. They would have automatically gone into next season’s competition had Bayern won, but now they will have to qualify

  30. Just Another Luke

    And if Chelski persist with their park the bus tactic based on the successes this year, good luck to them. I’m sure their luck will run out and the aging limbs in the team will do the rest

  31. good post george..
    its interesting to read such stories and theres millions of people around the world who are not local who love the club just as passionately..

    the question is though how did these new fans come to the club?
    we know where the local fans come you say its tribal, passed on father to son father to son..or in my case it skipped a generation and it was passed on from grandfather to grandson..

    but you only become a world brand once you start winning trophies and i can see a situation where alot of the new fans wouldnt have noticed us if we hadnt had such a successful history..i can imagine alot of the influx came from the invincible era and the double double before it..
    signing players like kanu and winning things would have put us on the map in africa for example..or nigeria to be precise..

    love is what keeps them here but success is what attracts them..
    theres not many people who fall in love with a new club becuase it wins the share price trophy..the majority of people love football for football and if the football results arent there then the fans who are looking for a club look somewhere else..

    in other news it looks like JV isnt going to spurs now they aint in CL.
    im not happy about chelsea winning the fucking thing, but at least spurs are the team who are in crisis now…the importance of cl to what they are trying to do cannot be underestimated..
    they fucked it..they are going to have a summer like we did last year..
    always a positive from a negative..haha

  32. pedantic george

    JJ ,Jimmy White is likely the most popular snooker player in history.
    He won the world championship Zero times.
    Fans can ,and in the face of the Citys of this new football world,be attracted by other less tangible things than trophies.

  33. Anti-football won last night,sometimes the better team of the night loses,let Chelsea enjoy their ooh-so-not-deserved trophy.The only time they started playing was extra time. So in the last 5 years the team that has knocked out barca has gone on to win the trophy, I started getting my bad feeling when chelsea beat em, even my reverse jinx (stolen from fungunner) couldnt change a change a thing,things were compounded for the worst when Robben stepped forward to take the penalty.

    George a great article and also a great comment from sensational gunner. I also started following Arsenal purely coz I found their football to be entertaining and have never looked back. Win or lose, succeed or not, Arsenal will always be my team.

  34. of course george there are other reasons but i recognise that which is why i say the majority..

    we play good football, and we are very multi cultural as a club so there will be fans who follow us becuase we have a player like ryo for example..

    but if ryo was to win a trophy with us?? boom….

    lol, jimmy white, thats true he was a legend but everyone loved him becuase they felt sorry for him..he was the peoples champ..
    he was never a champ though. it was hendry earning all the coin and having his name engraved onto trophies and coincidently everyone hated the trout faced fucker
    so your point is valid but jimmys in the history books for being a compulsive loser..

    im sure he kicks hiself and wakes up in sweats many a time..not a nice way to be recognised really..

    but thats snooker anyway..different sport, one man game so its difficult to compare..

  35. this is so awful… fkn awful…i want to cry ..i am breaking down …no television….no news..fuck them all…”on me bike” i think it is for me now..maybe the asses and bikinis at the beach serve as antibiotics…..fuckin bastards chelsea…

  36. for those who are still worried about the implications of the result last night, take a look on

    theyve made an announcement..
    hope it clears everything up..

  37. Interesting post especially as I’m a fan from Nigeria.
    Started supporting the club aged 9 and even though there are lots and lots of gooners in Nigeria, I enjoy the interractions on blogs like this more. I haven’t even seen a live game before but I intend to soon.

    Hate to deviate but what becomes of our two London rivals now that one of them has one the UCL? Its interesting for Chelsea because the argument to keep Di Matteo just got stronger. If they keep him, what would he do with their aging stars like Terry and Lampard? Would they now accept to play just bit part roles now that they’ve won everything there is to be won? Can RDM’s tactics last him over a full season? I feel keeping RDM will be a decision made with the heart and not head. As a gooner, I hope they keep RDM to be honest. Luck eventually runs out at some point and your know-how is called into question.

    As for Spurs, will they still be able to attract their transfer targets? Van der Vaart said Vertoghnen will join Spurs if he is sensible. I doubt he has the same opinion now. Will they keep their better players like Bale and Modric? How about Adebayor? Their plans for a new stadium? The players’ morale, How Redknapp is perceived now that everything’s gone tits up. There are actually many spuds who don’t rate the man. I expect them to increase massively.

    Then for Arsenal. Its simple really. We have everything locked except on the field where it hasn’t even been that bad. We need to keep RVP no matter what. We could replace him but I just don’t feel it speaks well of a big club like us to sell our best players every now and then. The major reason we haven’t won a trophy IMHO is our inability to keep our players, not even for financial reasons. We must do everything in our power to keep him. With Podolski plus say two more signings who are ready to play at the highest level immediately they join, who knows, we could do something major next season. The season after we sold Henry, we almost won the league. That’s because he wasn’t among our top 3-4 performers anymore. Subsequent seasons, we’ve lost key players, Hleb, Flamini,Adebayor. If we navigate this transfer window without losing key players, we will challenge again and with the right luck, we will win something.

  38. Jacobite Gunner

    Lets all go onto spuds blogs and play some games…lol

  39. george give us medicine !!!!!

  40. Jon Jon, a substantial number of African Arsenal fans were drawn to the team primarily by its playing style, by its football personalities (Henry above all, but many others), and by the aura of Wenger, not by trophies per se, although they “found” the Arsenal via its African players, usually starting with Kanu Nwankwo. Arsenal and Barcelona fans are usually inter-changeable in Africa (where nobody knows or cares much about Barcelona’s shinanigans). Trophy fans have tended to congregate around ManU and Chelsea, and will now do so around City, as they are the biggest bunch of loud-mouthed opportunists around. African Arsenal fans tend to be extremely loyal, life-long types.

  41. jacobite
    i was thinking about it..haha
    me an me ol fruit george had a bit of fisticuffs in the blog pub last night..

    it got me juices going i was on me way to take on a bunch of spuds but i found more comfort in hiding in the shadows they live in and just reading what they had to say and pissing myself laughing in the process..

    honestly, every spud blog is like le grove this morning its proper funny..

  42. Thanks PG for d post

    I’m a fan from Nigeria. I was fortunate enough to come across ACLF some four years ago through the arseblog site. I read arseblog but I’m not always comfortable with his write ups because I’m nt sure of his views at times. When I started reading ACLF, I realise I agree with most of YW’s thoughts and opinions. I get used to it and reading the post has become a daily ritual. I go through the comments and make comments at times but I realised that more often than not, I learn so much from so many of u who post comments. It’s always enjoyable being in the company of reasonable arsenal fans who believes in the way the club is run. I hope I’ll b able to see the team play at the EMIRATES next season but before then, I can’t wait to see them play here in NIGERIA in August. I’ll like to meet fellow ACLFers who are Nigerians.

  43. Billy's Boots

    Great post, PG. Maybe in your next installment, you can tell us how you came to be an Arsenal fan living in Blackburn!

  44. zimpaul
    im sure they are..
    once a gooner always a gooner i dont expect them to jump ship when the barron years come..

  45. Zimpaul @ 11:40

    Totally agree with u. Here in Nigeria, most chelsea fans started supporting them in the Mourinho era while I know of so many Arsenal fans that have been supporting the team even when we don’t have easy access to watching the games.

  46. football is the most unfair sport in the world …….

  47. I always loved p-g, from blackburn george to the pedant. Then the meerkat. It may have something to do with him being in Blackburn and my being in the Caribbean and both being able to share that community of love for Arsenal. Plus he is smarter than me, more eloquent and funnier. Thanks p-g for explaining so well why I love Arsenal and this blog.

    On another note, I always thought j-j was a maniacal but yesterday, after most of his ravings were rebuffed he posted this gem:
    “dear lord
    where have some of you been?

    ive never seen so much bullshit written in one night by so many fucking people..

    short memories..
    or gluttens (sic) for punishment i dunno which..”

    Well done j-j.

    In the spirit of j-j, thank heavens I rarely, if ever, click the goonerboy link on Newsnow. What a tool!

  48. George that echos my sentiments almost exactly. I got the ACLF bug and it gave me an extra feeling of belonging to the Arse that I’d never really had. I have supported AFC for a long time not as long as others but no doubt more than a few. Up until getting involved here I haven’t really felt as though I could banter and indeed have my say at all. It really does give something more to supporting your team which is a big part of life for any footy fan.

    So thanks for a very well put post George. I just wish I had as much time to post as I used to. I read almost every day and really miss having the time to banter and keep up the friendships with the gud’uns. I do value the site massively and YW is my footballing oracle, I just wish I could drop the lottery and take up residence. I have to admit I tweet a lot nowadays. These are just throw away comments that I find far easier to do from my phone when I have 2 mins. If I could get wordpress sites to work well on my phone then things would be different.

    Cheers and keep up the good work all you awesome ACLF’ers.

  49. Billy's Boots

    Re the CL final, I have to say congratulations to Chelsea. They rode their luck, but Drogba and Cech won them the match. Bayern seemed inhibited by the pressure.

    The events of the last two weekends have me wondering: are the dramatic finishes in the PL and CL evidence of football’s marvelous unpredictability, or are they two more examples of money conquering all?

    In thinking about Chelsea and the CL, the image of monkeys, typewriters and Shakespeare springs to mind. In Chelsea’s case, if you buy enough expensive players, give them enough opportunities, will they eventually win the trophy?

  50. Well done, pg!

    But I have to say on behalf of newer, non-traditional fans that we are not always the moany or unrealistic ones. That group cuts across age, class, nationality and length of time affiliated.

  51. ZimPaul, true. Despite being Nigerian, a certain Dennis Bergkamp who I had watched in the 98 world cup attracted me to the team and also Thierry Henry who was still quite raw then. For all the years of trophylessness that has followed, I think the class the club has is very important in keeping many of its fans not just with our playing style but with the emphasis on building stars.

    Many Africans don’t care about off-pitch issues so they find teams that have been winning attractive and its only a matter of time before we start seeing Citeh fans.

  52. @ Sensational Arsenal | May 20, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Completely agree with your second paragraph – that’s what turned me into an Arsenal supporter as opposed to somebody who just enjoyed watching them.

    @ Firstlady | May 20, 2012 at 11:09 am
    I feel the same!

    @ 13hunter13 | May 20, 2012 at 11:13 am
    ha ha!
    That was just how I felt last night. But today I am in denial. Much better. 🙂

  53. pedantic george

    Indeed it does FunGunner.
    Now where are my fucking trophies???

  54. shotta
    i’ll make this fucking simple for you shall i..

    the arsenal, are a club that self is a well known fact that we only make a profit every year if we sell players..
    gaining CL alone wont do it, we only just manage to break even so bearing in mind the club only makes profit if it sells players, how the fuck have we managed to pay off a stadium, get the cash reserve upto over 150mil and get the club to be worth a billion in the last 5 years?

    did we inherit some money from somewhere? did the two multi billionaires on the baord help us out? or did we sell a shit load of key players, captains and other top talents to do it??

    not that hard to follow really is it..but if you havent been watching whats happening then your not going to understand whats been going on..

  55. @ koye, what part of Nigeria are you at?

  56. john t

    What a stupid cunt

  57. I can’t speak for everyone but we love you PG.

    Then again, let’s face it, being loved by Boozy would not be a good sign that you were a decent person.

    Football lost again last night – there is something increasingly depressing about the modern game.

  58. I do wonder about the mental health of some Gooners. Jeeez, the chavs win the CL and of course the first thing they do is wail like banshees and completely embarrass themselves, whinging about how it’s Arsenal’s fault.

    Talk about a complete lack of perspective. Its amazingly funny, but at the same time quite scary. Are they like this about everything? The bloke infornt of them in the canteen queue gets the last meat and potatoe pie (probably that greedy twat george) do they start whining and screeching to their work colleagues about how the office manager is a tight cunt for not spending more money on catering?

  59. football’s on its knees morally jonny. Its been a long slow process.

  60. JJ

    I saw one of your posts last night and then again today.

    You seem like you need a holiday mate.

  61. Paulie Walnuts

    Nice post PG – pretty accurate I`d say,

    Last night just proved once more how strange football can be.

    They say that sometimes `your name is on the cup` but Jammy Chav B&stards would have taken up a lot room.

  62. Who cares who won between Bayern Munich FC vs Bayern Another Load of Overpaid, Over Rated Mercenaries FC last night?

    Seriously, it was win/win for Gooners; either the spuds miss out of the chavs do.

    And the fact the chavs are the first to win the CL? Is that really an issue? Really? Jesus some people are just soooo fucking retarded its amazing they can even work the tinternet.

  63. Good one George,
    You’ve spoken very eloquently for the lot of non-local gooners, including those living on other continents.

    ACLF has actually been a blessing for chatting about all things arsenal/football. Heck, even subjects like theology, philosophy and zoology are given a mention once in a while.

    Hardly a day I don’t learn something new here.

  64. PG;

    Eeeh, I remember mi favva yoost ta gerruss oop at 4 in t’mornin ta tek us darn t’pit, weed only av a andful o’gravel forruss teee an weed afta work a 47 hour shift for tuppence ape nee a year… an weed spend it ta tek tha tram ta local workin mans pub ta watch the Gunners…. win lose or draw, weeed cheer em on…wee might av bin poor, but we wuzz appy becoz of t’arsenal…

    Eeee, brings a tear to mee glass eye so it duzz.

  65. “In thinking about Chelsea and the CL, the image of monkeys, typewriters and Shakespeare springs to mind. In Chelsea’s case, if you buy enough expensive players, give them enough opportunities, will they eventually win the trophy?”

    Not necessarily (especially when said expensive players aren’t very good), but they certainly get a better chance!

  66. Excellent post George – I never knew you had it in you!

    It’s not always the fans from afar that are the most impatient for trophies. There are a number of ‘born in the area and been a season ticket holder since God was a boy’ types clamouring for Usmanov and his ill-gotten gains to ride in on his white charger to buy us a few trophies.

  67. JJ

    You were calling for usmanov to help ‘save’ Arsenal, a bit like that thick cunt goonergimp or whatever the name was?

    This demand for a suggar daddy is just so fucking short termist it is scary. All this does is ramp up transfer fees and wages, which are already at such a disgustingly obscene level that no club can sustain the payments, without a multi-billionaire. This attitude is sick and twisted and if left unchecked will ultimately kill off the game as we know it.

    Teams will go bust, some already have.

    Just imagine we have a sugar daddy prepared to pluogh in his ill gotten gains, we spend fortunes, we win a few pots, all good eh? Then another club gets someone even richer, they offer our stars even more money and they demand to move, then the next team gets someone even richer… You see the pattern here?

    Its completely unsustainable and short term. It is killing the game. But man city and chav fans dont give a shit about the health of the game, hell, they are successful, thats all that matters innit?

  68. pedantic george

    george rodger ‏@Blackburngeorge
    Mansour is worth 500 times what Arsenal is worth,Had he been around in 2004 by 2005 the Invincibles would have been wearing Sky blue .

  69. pedantic george

    george rodger ‏@Blackburngeorge
    People who say”only the score matters” may as well watch football on Teletext & If you want guaranteed trophies buy Champ Man & win your own

  70. Good post George. I’m a glory supporter myself – as a five year old I decided that my dad (Spurs) and uncles (Spurs and West Ham) were all losers and that I’d do better to follow the the recent double winners (1970-71) whom everybody seemed to hate. I thank God for my perceptive good judgement and foresight.

    I do wonder about the mental health of some Gooners. Jeeez, the chavs win the CL and of course the first thing they do is wail like banshees and completely embarrass themselves, whinging about how it’s Arsenal’s fault.

    Dexter – you have to wonder why anybody bothers reading the comments on blogs like Le Grave at all; it is literally the same under every post – Wenger out, Wenger out, sack the board, sell the deadwood, fuck Walcott/Ramsey/Song/Rosicky/Djourou/etc., fuck Arsene, fuck Kroenke, Usmanov in, interspersed with numbnuts like gambon, jopaaaa or suga masturbating furiously over their favourite English centre back or the current ludicrously over-priced flavour of the day.

  71. Sensational Arsenal

    Thanks FunGunner

  72. Sensational Arsenal

    “suga masturbating furiously over their favourite English centre back” – made me crack up and spill what i was drinking

  73. pedantic george

    Guus Hiddink’s Anzhi Makhachkala are preparing a sensational £45million bid for Arsenal striker Robin van Persie.
    Hiddink has been given a blank cheque book to strengthen the mega rich Russians and has made fellow Dutchman Van Persie his No 1 target.
    Anzhi owner Suleyman Kerimov, one of the richest men in the world, has told Hiddink the best players can earn over £300,000 a-week net at his club – which works out at £15m a year tax free

    But we were told the move to a new Stadium would mean us being the big cheese.Is that not right JJ.
    The board have lied to us.!!!!

  74. dex mate im fine.
    im looking forward to next season i think everythings going to level out well this summer rather well, theres many positives already but as far as player sales goes over the years im staggered by some of the comments..its like a denial..
    it seems to me like people are already accepting that we cant compete with the likes of city and im sorry but thats bollox..
    as far as i recall only really nasri, flamini and cashley left for cash..
    we sold the rest because we were kicking them out or they wanted to win something.

    so i dont know where all this city are fucking us thing comes from..we sell to everybody
    at 25mil a pop weve been fucking them..
    theyve paid our loan off havent they…

    we aint in the position we were in before though..
    we have the money, we have cl..

    and i dont know why people think we cant win trophies..lets not talk about them like they are this unrealistic magical thing that im making up..

    we have won them and we can win more..chelsea won cl ffs and they are proper proper shite..

    we finished 3rd, at a critical stage in the transition, its time to push on and challenge again and get to the top..
    we didnt fucking die
    fuck city…
    we knocked fergie off his perch we can knock mancini off his but we need to be a bit brave this summer

  75. Dexter,
    Was JJ asking for Usmanov to take over and spend some of his billions, or was he simply assuming that the Usbek will unlike Stan, make sure the club’s management spend more of our self-generated income and stop the selling of players for profit.

    These are clearly different issues, and I think he meant the latter, but I could be wrong.

    Still a bit naive if you ask me, to think that the Usbek would be better for the club than Stan.

  76. FFS Shoot

    It’s a sad existence for some of these people man. But I suppose it’s cheaper for them than therapy.

  77. Henristic

    Why would he call for the uzbek to free up money that the club earns? That makes no sense man. Its got fuck all to do with him! He aint the owner. Seemed to me he was calling for him to be a sugar daddy mate.

    If I am wrong, then, it wasnt my fault. it was all down to that fucking Wenger and the board!

  78. all i said dex was that if stan turns out to be abit of a tit and an owner who sells sells and sells then it doesnt bode well for the future..
    take wenger out of the picture and we finish midtable with this policy..

    usmanovs already here mate, if you hadnt noticed..
    i dont like the thought either but its happened and if stans motive is to sell us off piece by piece then no thanks id rather take my chances with someone else.

    thats all im saying..

    not might fault people have got their knickers in a twist and got a tad over sensitive about it all, going OTT and resorting to making things up and living in denial..

  79. pedantic george

    Ah my two bessie pals having a debate .Its hard for me to take sides but……………..
    Dexter,you are right and JJ you are ,well ,about as wrong as it is possible to be without the assistance of mind altering drugs.

  80. Haha! Thats funny because if any one was going OTT, it was you by the looks of your posts mate! Usmanov in? The cunt who wants a dividend so he can actually take money out of the club. yet you would rather believe the yank is doing that huh?

    Your posts are up and down like george’s meerkat.

  81. all i hve to say is that arsene found a cave and has turned it into a 5 star luxury mega villa in capri ….

    without him arsenal would be ….lost….

    and to see this disgrace of a football club chelsea win the champions league before us makes me utterly sick.

    KROENKE ….either you help wenger or go away ….

    this manager does not deserve to get beaten by di matteos and mancinis just because the OWNERS dont know what to do with arsenal.

    decission time gentlemen…wenger has brought your enterprise in the 21st century and has got you in 5th place of richest clubs without winning a single trophy the last 6 – 7 years ….now you release whatever funds he deems necessary to put some things right !!!

  82. why are my comments awaiting moderation ? i am hurting ..stop this moderation nonsense…

  83. Fantastic post George. I am not a long term Arsenal fan in the sense of my whole life. Most of us growing up in my era did not care a lick about “soccer”. When my children started to play I started to realize what a great sport it really was and then when Fox soccer channel came around we were able to start actually watching real football. I fell in love with Arsenal and finding ACLF has been wonderful. Yogi is the best football writer in the world and regular posters like you are the icing on the cake. Our almost daily debates are good spirited and always enjoyable and informative. Thanks again, you awesome.

  84. dex
    but when the club is sold it pays out a massive dividend anyway

    it makes no difference whether they take the dividends yearly or they save every penny and raise the share price sellable at over a billion and take their dividend at the end..

    no difference…

    and we still dont know what stans intentions are yet..last year just went wrong i think but we’ll see..

  85. pedantic george

    Does anyone know how much it cost Stan to buy his share ,in total?

  86. No idea George.


    The only point you’ve made that I can agree with, is the last sentence man.

  87. George – your post has urged this long-time lurker to put up a post of my own.

    I’m possibly the opposite to you in a way, I’m an Australian who’s been living in London for the last eight or so years. When I first moved to London, I stayed in various places both south and north of the river, but when I moved to a place on Liverpool Road (the Holloway N7 end) just a stone throw’s away from the (at the time) brand-new stadium, I fell in love with the area. From bustling Upper St to the serene tree-lined Liverpool Road, to low-brow Holloway Road, walking around Islington, Holloway and Highbury, this felt like a home away from home.

    So naturally I decided to support the local team. Fantastic area, fantastic team – who else would I ever support? And now I am an Arsenal supporter for life.

    Even better I found this fantastic site, which has simply gone from strength to strength. Thank you Yogi, for being a sane, rational voice amongst the swamp that is the English sports press and the vast Arsenal blogosphere.

    Also, props to you, George, for being one of the most entertaining posters ACLF has ever seen 🙂

  88. George

    I think it was about £460m, all told.

  89. good post it describes a hell of a lot of us.

  90. about 750 mil george.
    i think

    but the clubs worth a billion now shares are going for ridiculous price, even if he sold now he’d make a huge profit..but with the sponsers coming up and the cash reserve looking like its getting near to covering the mortgage we are going to be worth a fucking mint so i cant see him going anywhere just yet, he could double his investment with a sale within 3 years

    when you think about it theres only usmanov who could buy stan out..

    if stan makes a stand this year though it will make it clear where we are going as a club, but if hes an owner who sells then the chances are, in the end, he’ll sell..

    thats an evil comparible with having an owner who ploughs millions into a club, just other ends of the spectrum..

  91. JJ

    £750m was the value placed on Arsenal when KSE made their offer. Usmanov is paying £16k a share at the moment.

  92. JJ

    You’ve lost me mate. Where’s all this shite about stan selling up, or just being in it to take money out come from?

    And if he wanted to sell, there’s no reason he would choose the uzbek either. They aint exactly best buds now.

  93. pedantic george

    It has cost City one billion pounds to win the League.Coincidentally that is the value put on Arsenal today.
    So why would any reasonable person think that is a model that can be followed.?
    City is now unsalable.
    It will lose £200 million pounds every year for the foreseeable future and nobody will buy a business like that.
    The are totally dependent on Mansour and his patronage.In other words ,without him they a royally fucked.
    And JJ wants that for us.But will say “no one is asking for that we just need to spend a bit more blah blah fucking blah”

  94. I read the discussion with JJ and others yesterday with interest. It goes to the heart of the frustration some fans have with the way the club has gone the last 7 – 8 years.

    I don’t know all the details but my understaning is that the club payed off a very low interest and managable debt at an accelerated rate which from a business standpoint was certainly not necessary. In theory, that took away lots of money that could have been used for the team strengthening. Paying of the debt ahead of schedule, and building big cash reserves made the club more valuable to potential buyers and kept the share price high. This team has suffered alot because of what has happened the last 7 years and the only ones who gained anything were those who sold their highly valuable shares to Stan. Certainly nothing illegal or immoral happened but as a fan I can’t help but be a bit upset. If you are not upset for the club think about Arsene. He would never have had Chelsea type money but think how much more he could have done if he had been able to buy a player like Vincent Kompany rather then make due with Silvestre. Players like Kompany, Arteta, Mert, Santos were all less then 10M even in today’s market yet we made due with Sol Campbell and Silvestre and stuck with Almunia for 2 years too long.

    All that also raises the question about whats happening now with Stan and what are his motivations. I honestly don’t understand how anyone who is a fan isn’t not at least a little upset about how the last several years have played out and even more concerned about about the future.

  95. yeah what yogi said
    the 750 is what the club or his total investment in the end was worth ish…

    and apparently hes still not paid it off..

    I O fucking U’s…

    its worth a billion now though so hes onto a winner..which is nice..
    so can we get back to football again please and sort the team out with some of the funds the club has at its disposal..

    thats all..

  96. yeah yogi i was late refreshing, nice one, i realised quick though

    needed a guiding hand but i got there..

  97. Bill;
    I definitely do not profess to have a brilliant understanding of what goes on when one tries to finance a massive venture like the club did when they decidied to move stadia. However, your comment is flawed and inaccurate from what i have gleaned anyway.

    For a start, Arsene stated BEFORE the planned move that things would be bleak, spending would be relatively negligible and for at least 5 seasons that would be the case.

    If anything David Dein changed things when he sold his shares to Usmanov (conveniently ommitted from your revionsist precie) thus changing the landscape of AFC and the turn around in terms of the welcome given to stan. This power struggle between the yank and uxzbek is ugly and it concerns me. ThAT is the only real issues we have, not the fact we havent won a fucking pot since 04.

    But as a glory hunter, you won’t understand or give a shit about that.

    Fair assessment?

  98. Where were these fucking philanthropic billionaires when we were scrabbling round selling our arses trying to find the neccesary spondooliks to build the stadium? Fucking nowehere, now they are fighting over themselves to have a piece of the pie.

  99. For me, the anger and frustatrion, in the main, is directed at the wrong targets.

  100. PG
    Today’s post is another example of your voice of reason. At least for me, I find your footballing contributions well thought out and based on actual observation not emotional ties (aside from Arshavin).

    Congratulations to Chelsea and their fans. I may not like any of their players or owner, but I do admire RDM.

    My football mentor once told me that its better to be lucky than good, but luck is fickle. Additionally, learning is a lifetime process. You can always learn from others, regardless of their credentials.

  101. @ JJ

    I don’t know why I’m bothering, because most of what you are saying is nonsense, but a couple of points should be clarified in case others don’t realise:

    The profit from the sale of shares is not a dividend. A dividend is a share of the profits of the club. The two are totally separate. The first comes from whoever buys your shares and has no effect on the amount available to spend on football; the second comes out of the club and would reduce the amount available to spend on football.

    Also.. the 750 is what the club or his total investment in the end was worth ish…

    and apparently hes still not paid it off..

    I O fucking U’s

    Whatever amount SK owes on his shares is his problem, not the club’s because the debt is not secured on the club’s assets or cash, and no money is coming out of the club into the pockets of SK. This is not like the Glazers’ situation, where ManUre FC was effectively paying off the debt that the Glazers incurred in “buying” it.

  102. pedantic george

    Thanks Yogi ,
    So £450 m and his shares are worth £700 m now(about?)
    So i wonder if he had spent our cash reserves and bought some big players ,thus committing us to 4 or 5 years worth of super wages,and not paying down the debt,how much would his shares be worth?
    Remembering that City ,despite winning and having all those players as assets ,is unsalable.
    Oh and still we might have won nothing.

    And Dexter,I am neither angry or frustrated .I love the club and its direction.
    From my perch up here on the moral high ground ,everything looks fine.

  103. red kangaroo

    FWIW, I was living in N. Islington during the 1970-71 season. Then I went home and, in the pre-internet age, totally lost interest in sport. A few years ago, listening to the radio in the middle of Saturday nights I was faced with a choice – BBC Sportsday, some talkback stuff with country music singers whiling away their time while driving home from a gig 250 km away, or some magic new age rot from the US. So I chose to listen to football in the middle of the night. I was already bent towards Arsenal, but I knew nothing of the Invincibles. The two names that stood out from those early broadcasts were Wenger and Fabregas. I’m very slowly acclimatising to the team without the latter. Would find it difficult to do so without the former – in so far as he is responsible for the style of game we play. I can think of a number of managers in the PL who could force me to give up sport altogether again were they to succeed AW. You know who they are!

    It isn’t true that you need trophies to win fans.

  104. Dex,
    The fact that Stan isn’t like the usual ‘sugar daddy’ surely makes it reasonable to suspect he has a profit motive, and is probably looking to sell down the line.

  105. Clerkenwell Gooner

    Not sure about the ins and outs of the financing of the stadium, but a lot of it was predicated on property sales IIRC (flats developed on the old Highbury, various social housing projects round and about, possibly as part of section 106 development agreement).

    The problem has been that the residential property bubble kind of burst with the financial crash in 2008, and house prices have mostly dropped from the lunatic highs of the early 2000s (no relation between wages and house prices – where I am, median house price is still x12 median wage, when traditional sustainable multiple was always x3, x4). With the added problem now that banks won’t lend to homebuyers without vast (25%) deposits upfront.

    Some of the high-end London market is excluded (say, One Hyde Park and the £££m penthouses in the Shard), but for most property owners, the only way for prices is down, and will be for some considerable time. Unemployment at 2.6m doesn’t help, either.

    This might explain the haste to get rid of the debt as fast as possible, in the knowledge that the planned-for windfall from property sales to pay debt down would likely turn out be partial at best. Is all the property developed by AFC sold by now? If not, how much remains?

  106. George

    Based on £16k a share, Arsenal as a club is valued at £995k. That makes KSE’s shares worth £630, representing a profit of about £170m were he to realise it now.

    How much would the shares be worth in your scenario? It is essentially unquantifiable. However, the simple equation that seems to be applied to this scenario is that wages + transfer spend = trophies. Therefore, prize money would be higher, leading to more broadcast and commercial revenues since “winners” sell more. But the flipside is that interest charges would be higher. Thus the valuations are essentially the same.

    Is Manchester City an unsaleable asset? No, it is not but it is definitely one with a finite and extremely limited market of buyers but then so is Arsenal based on current valuations.

  107. pedantic george

    Is that not a good thing?
    His best way of making a profit is to have a successful team,But my point is when the opposition is worth 500 time you value,then it is folly to attempt to join in their game.
    If I go to an auction to buy a car I think it is worth £1000 ,and that is about my limit .If someone walks in who wants it and despite it only being worth £1000 ,he is willing to pay £5000 .I have to just walk away or ruin myself.
    It is only possible to compete financially with people playing in your ballpark.Not with people who can buy the country the ballpark is situated in.

  108. Henristic;

    So what? He is hardly an Arsenal fan is he? I imagine he would like to think that when he sells his shares, he might make a buck or two, but JJ was going on about something quite different (Thanks to FG for explaining the difference BTW)
    Not sure his long term plans are the issue here. But JJ was talking like it’s already happening.

  109. ClerkenwellG

    As far as I am aware, all the properties are now sold. We were really struggling for a while and there were loads (including the spud hack Mihir Bose) who predicted the club would fold before it would build the stadium, so props to the board for managing that feat.

  110. pedantic george

    Yogi ,I get that.
    I am just making the point that we could spend ,make the club less profitable ,and because City can still totally out gun us ,win the same nothing.
    Therefore prize money would not be any be higher, leading to no more broadcast and commercial revenues since “ still not winners” don’t sell any more.

  111. Yogi

    Arsenal is only worth your estimate if someone’s willing to pay £16k a share though man. Not even sure the Uzbek would buy all stan’s up at that valuation? But we have no real idea, as in most things we discuss here!

  112. Dex:

    Call me a glory hunter if you want, but I can’t believe there is any fan who doesn’t want their team to have more success then it has, even Red Manc fans want more, thats a normal part of being a fan I thought.

    You can say you don’t care but the club and the manager have had to live thru a media crap storm and fan unrest etc etc etc and the single biggest issue by far is the “trophy free streak”. That has hurt the club no matter how you slice it. Not saying we should have spent ourselves into administration but there is little doubt that we could have done more to help the club on the pitch during those years and there is probably more we could be doing now if our ownership and management was willing.

  113. Yogi, George

    thanks for your kind reassurances 🙂

    living in munich, i have to say i feel abit sorry for the people who put on that bayern jersey for the first time in their lives last night. looking a bit silly now i guess.

  114. If we have £50m in the kitty to splash out on transfers, contracts, new contracts, etc, then I would hope/expect we do that.

    I am only saying that as I would hate for someone to think I am against us spending what we can afford and defending the club out of some misguided desire to see us live in a utopian world where doctors and nurses are paid more than fat cat bankers and footballers! 🙂

  115. Lovely post, PG.

    A shame there are no prizes awarded for getting the first post to the daily blog,but allow me to make up for this just for today by bestowing upon JOhn T the august title of ‘Prize ****’ simply for choosing to ignore today’s salutory blog and instead airing his noxious rantings.

  116. Bill

    Sorry, but that is all guess work and opinion man, not fact. This season, so far anyways, looks like we will be able to spend considerably more than in previous years however.

    About time too eh?

    This trophy drought mantra is something the press throw at us (and only us it seems) the fact it rankles with some, is there problem if you ask me. I grew up watching Arsenal win fuck all for years, been there, done that. I have no sense of entitlement and even less so, if truth be told, in this fucked up, limitless spending era.

    If anything the chavs winning the CL should give us hope though, they are a spent force, and have gone out on a high, whereas the supposed all conquering spanish clubs fell away and failed to match up to the (clueless) hacks and media fed ‘supporters’ expectations.

    We have a better squad than the chavs right now, in my opinion of course.

  117. George – Nice post mate. Due to my job my lifestyle is fairly transient, and I move house (sometimes country) every three years so being a remote supporter is something I also know about.

  118. Clerkenwell Gooner

    Stan I suspect is in for the long haul, particularly in respect of internet broadcasting.

    He can reach a global audience, not just the 60k in the stadium, by charging a low-cost access fee to domestic and overseas punters. Pile it high, and sell it cheap, aka the Wal-Mart model, to a fanbase of millions.

    Building this broadcasting capacity on top of practically debt-free assets (the team, the stadium), he is set to earn mega$$$ in the next few years. That is, if the global economy doesn’t collapse.

    Don’t know what Usmanov’s game is, unless dividends are set to be paid once the debt is paid off? Or else he’s lining up in pole position just in case Stan should ever waiver, and need a quick sale? (Stan’s mall empire in the US is coming under pressure, given economic conditions over there.) Then he’ll be able to build that much-needed archipelago of Arsenal islands in the Middle East, just as Real Madrid are supposedly doing. By which time, I shall have renounced football for the funny farm.

  119. fungunner
    i know the profit on the sale is not a dividend but if you took a time scale of ten years and said a company would be worth 1 billion in that period after putting zero money into the club to begin with(which essentially what the last lot did) then its essentially the same as giving yourself a 100mil dividend each year..

    of course it aint the same..
    but the outcomes the same

    but i thought i made thart clear..several times..

    you dont have to take dividends from a club thats worth a billion
    why would you?
    its worth a billion you could sell up and move to the moon tomorrow so who gives a shit about a poxy dividend..

  120. Dex – Very true, I think we have a better squad as well. What they have is organisation. They are more disciplined than us.

  121. andy

    I think it was telling how they miraculously managed to get their shit together once they’d got AVB the sack man! I don’t think the issue has ever been organisation though, more like concentration and application. If we played every game like we have against the chavs, or blue mancs, we’d be laughing. 🙂

  122. Great post George – I always knew you had it in you! I support Arsenal because of my parents (and for a very long time now) but seeing the posts today make me realize how difficult it is for some fans to follow the team. Kudos to them. And as George points out some people just follow their local team forever like the Colchesters of the football world). It’s always good to be a gooner.

  123. FFS JJ

    Do you ever admit you get things wrong man? Who the hell do you think you are?

    Me!! 🙂

  124. JJ

    You never said anything like what Fungunner did man. Just hold ya hands up for once! 🙂

  125. thats the thing though dex
    im not wrong.. 🙂

  126. Clerkenwellgunner

    None of the owners of the premier league clubs are bonafide fans, or benefactors like the dude who bought and bankrolled Blackburn’s league title, Walker was it? They all have some ulterior motives, whether its financial, or glory (by association), or simply to launder vast sums of cash, or maybe a bit of all three!

  127. George,

    Problem is AFC has shown that success as a financial entity is not the same as success in football times. If Stan is all about profit, then he’d be more than ok with continuing to building our cash reserves instead of using it to improve the team, as long as we have a manager like Arsene that can keep us playing in the CL with a shoe string budget.

    Such an owner would almost always prefer to cash in on players like RvP instead of taking the financial hit of loosing a potential 20+Million transfer fee, because the more he accumulates cash and pays down debts, the better the value of the share price.

  128. times=terms

  129. What are these mind-altering drugs you have George?

  130. pedantic george

    Yes perhaps Henristic.
    But my point is he is sort of put in this position because he can’t go the other way.Because City and Chelsea ,to a lesser degree(50 times lesser to be more accurate)have made it impossible for him to enter into a straight arms race.Which is what some fans thought moving to a new stadium promised.But because of the new “super owners”wealth ,that is no longer is a viable option.

  131. pedantic george

    Jonny ,they are JJ’s

  132. Sorry, but has RvP been sold? I must have missed that.

  133. @ JJ
    It’s not the same. The point is that the hundreds of millions of profit they would make would NOT come out of the club’s profits and therfore would never have impacted our spending power.

    @ Clerkenwell Gooner | May 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm
    Good post, sounds very plausible to me as far as Stan’s business plans go – he is a fan, he claims never to have sold a share in any of his sporting ventures, but certanly we have to assume that he and AU are in this to make money in some way or other. I have a hunch that something is brewing with Arsenal Player as regards moving towards being a proper (internet-based) TV channel in the near future, and perhaps there is some connection with SK? They have re-packaged the matchday show and now include the cost of Arsenal Player in your membership. So I could imagine that a separate subscription channel might be created which broadcasts the main shows and access to selected/edited content is via the website either for free or included in membership, as now. What do you reckon? Perhaps I am just reaching! But certainly, as you say, the audience is out there.

  134. Almost any club would also sanction the sale of a £30m player, apart from the sugar daddy owned ones.

  135. George,
    That would be a lame ass cop out. He doesn’t have to get into the arm race with Chelski/Cityto improve the teams chances of competing . Especially with a coach like Wenger who gets much better value for a buck. He just has to make sure the AFC team is the best it can be within our own budget.

  136. :…arms race with Chelski/City to …

  137. Dex,
    RvP sold?

  138. pedantic george

    Henristic ,I knew you would say that,
    See my car auction post.

  139. George, that example doesn’t apply very well to football.

    The richest clubs have an advantage, but are by no means guaranteed anything. Besides there is a limit to how far money will take you. The Sheik aren’t 50 times more likely to win than Chelski for instance, just because the former is richer than the latter by that amount.

  140. Anyway, pg, to get back to the subject of the post, many commenters today have shown that the fanbase is international and their main connection with other fans is via tinternet.

  141. Roofies George? :0)

    I wonder to what level of vilification RVP would suffer from our fans if he does go to City.

    What’s the consensus?

  142. pedantic george

    I never said they were 50 times ,but if they both want the same player the are 50 times more libel to get him
    If you get my drift!Henristic.
    And recent history has proven that when you massively outspend your opposition for anything like a sustained period ,then success is as near as damn it ,guaranteed.
    And that is exactly what City can do .Regardless of how much “ambition” we show.

  143. pedantic george

    The same as Nasri and Cesc I would imagine Jonny.

  144. Exactly, Pedantic George.

  145. Well, maybe not to the same degree, depends on how he behaves. But let’s hope and assume it won’t come to that until we know different.

  146. pedantic george

    Which post FG?

  147. But RvP won’t be going to city Jonny. 🙂

  148. I can’t imagine RvP going to City without feeling slightly queasy. He ain’t going anywhere

  149. @ pedantic george | May 20, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    “Which post FG?”

    ha ha
    I expect it seems like a lifetime ago to you, now.

  150. Quick question – is anyone else using Chrome? I am getting a message telling me that this page has insecure content. It could just mean Hunter 😉 but, more the point, is anyone else getting the same message?

  151. Good to know, Dexedrine.

  152. pedantic george

    Did you come on via “” jonny? got it on that earlier when I read an article.
    Not on here though

  153. Thank you for your post. I know how you feel, but for different reasons.

    I live and have lived in North West London all my life. Yet, because I am an Orthodox Jew, Saturday matches are not possible.

    Yet I have a number of Orthodox friends who have season tickets and use only the Sunday and midweek ones themselves and give away or sell the Saturday ones.

    My concession was to get Sky (at my office, not at home, as the Boss would not allow me to have it there) and I watch the televised games there, although, by way of Sky Go, I watch them at home now.

    Arsenal are very well supported in the North West London Jewish community, more than Manure and the Scum, although the gentleman who sits behind me in the Synagogue is a Chelsea supporter, despite being a very nice person and a good friend.

    When I do go to a game, I will invariably see a lot of people that I know. I have never experienced anything other than friendliness from fellow Gooners.

    The only time that I took my wife to a game was at home to Chelsea about 30 years ago. She enjoyed the fights afterwards, more than the game which, so far as I recall, was a pathetic 0 0 draw.

    Interestingly enough, the only ground where have been insulted for being Jewish was at Stamford Bridge. Ironically, when someone behind us stood up, turned round and shouted at the people making the antisemitc comments, he was removed from the ground.

    A few months ago, a vociferous scumnik in my Synagogue was cockahoop about there being no St. Totts day this year. I did not see him last Monday and he was not there this morning. I resolved not to rub it in, as I am sure he is feeling enough disappointment already.

    My 4 sons are all very enthusiastic Gooners and we all ride the roller-coaster that is being an Arsenal fan with the stress and strains that go with it.

    Being a member of the wonderful Arsenal family is a great pleasure and honour.

    I cannot believe that the support of any other can can go anywhere near to match ours.

    Thanks to you all.

  154. George,

    Yes, but they can only have so many players in their team, so after a point, it won’t matter that they can outbid everyone. The CANNOT buy every single good player in the world. In fact the can’t by the two best players in the world right now.

    Asides from that, there are many other factors other than squad quality as most on ACLF know well. There is luck (which played more a part in Chelsea’s win than Abrahamovich’s millions), there is injuries (wrt timing and spread).

    This means that ‘damn near guaranteed’ isn’t so iron clad in football. The richest clubs don’t always win.They can dominate, like Barca, RM, and Manure did for years, but they don’t always win.

    Less rich clubs don’t just give up hope and stop trying their hardest to compete.

  155. Clerkenwell Gooner

    Fun – yeah, I was surprised when access to live commentary became a feature of membership without too much fanfare basically, and obviously that route will expand, all the more so if rules around non-broadcasting of 3pm kickoffs are, how shall we say, reappraised, in light of the mega$$$ to be made? City TV, Chelsea TV, these are independent broadcasters now. I assume AFC will follow at some stage.

    Re: Torres twilight vs twilight zone. I kind of conflated two things there. Drogba is in his mid-30s, the twilight years, not sure if he’ll sign up for Shanghai or Battersea Power Station next season, but what if he stays?

    Torres made 32 appearances in all competitions for the Chavs this season, half of them – 16! – from the bench. I would say that for a player of his calibre, a World and European champion with a £50m price tag, that that is effectively the twilight zone, and I doubt he’ll stand it for another year.

    Torres expressed firm disappointment at being a sub in Munich (“I expected to start”) and also called out the negative tactics (“We were playing with the handbrake on, but I thought we could attack as well as counterattack”), which strikes me as pretty vocal – stroppy, even – for a player known to be extremely shy. But who would have him, if he wanted to leave? Mancini? Hiddink? Vilanova? He’d never go to RM in a million years. Maybe it’ll be him who washes up at Juve, and not RVP.

  156. Apologies of all the typos. Too many to even bother correcting. Was in a rush to post as I have to be somewhere. Cheers for the chat.

  157. pedantic george

    Henristic ,but those clubs only stopped dominating when some other club outspent them .Hence why Barca is now up the swanie river financially.

  158. Fun @ 3:43:

    “The point is that the hundreds of millions of profit they would make would NOT come out of the club’s profits and therfore would never have impacted our spending power.”

    Probably the single biggest reason the share prices are high is because money that could have been used on the squad was used to make accelerated debt payments and build a huge cash reserve. The fact that the share price is high does not affect anything other then our owners net worth, but the way the money was used to increase share prices did and does decrease the clubs spending power. I think thats what JJ is saying and its seems to make sense. Whats happened in the past is water under the bridge and can’t be changed but its probably worth thinking about given what is happening now.

  159. There is an enormous difference between the tax treatment of a dividend and a capital gain.

    If the club declared a dividend, it would be taxable as income, on the recipient.

    As sale of the shares would be a capital gain, and KSE is a non-resident company, it would have no CGT liability.

    Thus why declare a dividend and pay tax on it, when he can waiot a few more years and gain much more and pay not tax on it.

    As PG’s alre ego might say, “simples”.

  160. Henristic, if you did not see my response to you post yesterday, the comment was in jest. Apologies if I offended you, that was not
    my intention.

    Excellent, George! I concur. Living in the US, most dont even like football, much less being Arsenal supporters. ACLF is truly a sanctuary for many who have no one else to discuss the team with.


    Thanks for yesterday Yogi, I was a bit confused.

  161. Limestonegunner

    Jonny, I wondered this six months ago. I’m not eager to see it, but I think I can predict most of it. But it will be interesting as RvP can’t be shown to have given less than his best this season and was a wonderful captain.

    The other question is what would people say if AW decided not to renew his contract but went and became manager or director of football at PSG or took one of his many other offers, like Real Madrid or Barcelona?

    God forbid we see it. But eventually he is going to retire.

    It would have been nice to see him given the resources for an arms race with City/Chelsea but to be able to take some risks to try to compete. He fought creditably against ManU, but his hands have subsequently been tied, it seems. Give him, as Bill suggested, the chance to buy more of his sort of players to strengthen the team and I think he can raise Arsenal to the challenge, even now.

    We have a couple years left on his deal. I think we need to make the most of it, so I agree with Hunter, in fact. Kroenke needs to gamble a bit if he wants Arsenal to really grow. We are a step below ManU, City and Chelsea now financially and being pursued by a group of three clubs below us. Because of our history and support levels, we could grow if we achieve some success soon, before the commercial deals need to be renegotiated. But it is possible to fritter these advantages away–it’s happening to Liverpool and what guarantees do we have that post-Wenger we’ll have a magician/genius like him helping us stay in the CL every year no matter what? I would say that football needs Arsenal to succeed, as a model. It is important. We are the only salvation at the top level.

    One step would be not to cash in on RvP. In sporting terms, he’s more valuable to us next year. Frankly we don’t play the glamorous way we use to under Fabregas, so we aren’t going to attract fans through our style right now. In terms of fantasy, it’s really just RvP and the hope that JW and the Ox become great players in the next couple years. So winning the league would do wonders for us as a club ahead of the new commercial deals.

  162. “I would say that football needs Arsenal to succeed, as a model. It is important. We are the only salvation at the top level”. Word.

  163. Limestonegunner

    George, I haven’t yet commended you on your fine post. Thank you for raising the issue and experience of the long distance fans and the way we come to identify with Arsenal.

    I’ll admit it. I was captivated not by our self-sustaining model or even our style or AW’s philosophy, though each of these things came to strengthen my affiliation to the point, now, where it is so firm and passionate. I came to Arsenal partly because as a student at SOAS in the early 1990’s it was the closest club–though I could have gone for any London club. I fell for the magnificence of 1989. I didn’t get to live it, but I learned about it. Underdogs achieving great things in dramatic fashion really appeal to me. I loved Fever Pitch. After returning to North America, I didn’t follow club football closely–just the odd big game like a European cup or the PL game of the week (usually ManU) and always the Euros and World Cups since the 1980’s as these were broadcast– and it wasn’t easy to watch games regularly. But in latter years through the “soccer” packages I was able to follow Arsenal and the internet has been a great tool and medium of connecting to supporter culture. ACLF has become my virtual gooner community and a very big part of how I feel I have become a serious gooner. I have become proud of what Arsenal stands for as a club and of the genius of our manager for his philosophy and principles. It was easy to increasingly identify with a club that expressed my values, played fantastic football, had the most glamorous players of Bergkamp-Henry-Vieira ilk. But they were my underdogs who became great and glorious and then became underdogs again. I hope we can still achieve great things and believe we can if our manager can put together a team without constantly losing his best players.

    Thanks again for your article.

  164. Limestonegunner

    Perhaps I shouldn’t care, but I did find it quite demoralizing that Chelsea is the first London club to win the European Cup/CL and particularly in the manner they have as an artificial creation of ill-gotten oiligarch money and megalomaniacal egotism playing dire, negatively defensive and soul-crushing football. Nothing joyous about last night; I even pitied Spuds somehow!?

    When will our luck come? Doesn’t AW deserve to be up among the greats who have taken a team to the summit of Europe?

    Ah well, next season, then.

  165. Gr8 post Sensational Arsenal @ 9:58.. I too am from India and fell in love with arsenal just by reading about them in the newspapers around 2004-05.. Just something bout the name of the the team.. The power of the word Arsenal.. The fact the manager has almost the same name.. hehe.. The beautiful footbal.. Only started following the team on tv in 06-07. Its not about the trophies which of course we all know the team deserves but about the unknown X factor the club has about it that pulls me to it.. I dunno why but I love this club.. More so after the connection with all you guys on ACLF.. Thanx Yogi

  166. Limestonegunner

    @4:39, I meant, …given the resources NOT for an arms race with Chelsea….

  167. @ LSG
    People are judged on how they behave. You’ve been told several times that it’s not the fact of a player leaving, it’s the manner and timing of leaving which can create resentment in fans. This distinction seems lost on you and Jonny. If RvP went to Man City, against our wishes and at a time that didn’t suit us as well as him, and forcing us into another period of reorganisation or transition, I would feel justified in being pissed off with him. He’s given us glimpses of his talent but this last 18 months is the first extended period of service we have had – not his fault, but not ours either. Toure and Clichy went with AW’s blessing and with replacements lined up. Nasri didn’t. RvP going to City would be weakening us and strengthening City. It would be scorning a model of club administration and a philosophy which he has vocally espoused in the past. Anger would be mitigated by the fact that he has led the team with distinction, given his all and always shown respect to the club, but some anger would be fair, especially if he leads us up the garden path and then decides very late to leave. If he went to Ankhi or whatever they are called, for an obscene amount of money, that would be a lttle different.

    But he’s not going anywhere, as far as we know…

  168. + “Toure and Clichy went with AW’s blessing and with replacements lined up and after years of service“.

  169. “This distinction seems lost on you and Jonny”

    Que? Other than asking how others would feel, I am not sure I have anything to say on the subject..?

  170. arse or brain

    hi george great post, but only what weve come to expect , however you dont realise how lucky you can debate on the blogs deceiding which ones to read or comment on and which ones to ignore. If after a tear up on your chosen blog you are still angry you can close the lid of your laptop and go and kick the dog,wife,meerkat etc. I live in a london overspill town mainly from east and north london apart from ARSENAL the spuds and west ham are represented in my family. At work all the london clubs are supported as well as the blokes who grew up during the liverpool and leeds eras, we also have ,as you have also mentioned from your economics class, the mobillity of labour set from the north supporting newcastle,middlesborough and sunderland.lastly we have the standard amount of plastic mancs. So I have lived through the ARSENAL bad times when as a small boy I not only had to cope with us losing but also the phone calls form uncles and cousins taking the piss(yeah how grown up of them and is that almost child creulty).Anyway back to the point I was trying to make, this week I will go through life talking to a hundred le groves who I just cant turn off,the plastic supporters from all clubs the premership have created, the people who may have always followed clubs but are frankly unaware of the workings of clubs in the modern world or of the players and staff at their club. This week will now be especially bad as yet another anti football team has suceeded again and everyone will be saying how good it is for english football. lastly I am in no way suggesting you are a plastic fan I know your philosophy and respect your views but for people who dont suffer fools gladly it not all bad where you are !

  171. Jimmy, I use chrome at work but can’t say that I’ve seen that issue before

  172. Some really fine posts about their affiliation and long standing affection for AFC from jjgsol, LSG and A&B.

    Mainly in response to George’s piss poor effort! 🙂

  173. jjgsol

    And that’s before you consider that KSE is a Delaware corporation which makes The Caymen Islands seem like a bastion of transparency. If KSE take Arsenal private when plus markets is sold, the speculation about the clubs finances will be spectacularly I’ll-informed. Which is saying something.

  174. pedantic george

    Dexter ,you may like my next effort better It is going to be called “Why only the cleverest,most eloquent and funny people on ACLF ,have a Meerkat as their Avatar”

  175. If you were that eloquent you would not need a dictionary for my posts.

  176. I think I’m busy reorganising my sock drawer that day George, sorry man.

  177. pedantic george

    I am only going by what Shotta said Jonny.
    I choose to accept his analysis of me ,rather than yours.
    Dexter ,if you are listening Jonny needs to borrow your duck.

  178. Paul-N,

    Its all good.

  179. Clerkenwell Gooner

    So, if Torres is unhappy at FC Battersea Power Station, and RVP wants more Blue Manc-style $$$ after all, would ACLFers take Torres as RVP replacement?

    Just wonderin’ 😉

  180. pedantic george | May 20, 2012 at 4:32 pm
    “Henristic ,but those clubs only stopped dominating when some other club outspent them .Hence why Barca is now up the swanie river financially.”

    So what? What has this got to do with other clubs trying their best to improve? We’re not talking about Arsenal dominating here. We clearly can’t as you’ve said elsewhere.

  181. As per usual, I have absolutely no idea what henristic is arguing about? Perhaps it’s something about Arsenal are willing to sell RvP because of stan, not spending any money and just hoarding it under PHW’s solid godl four poster bed?

  182. pedantic george

    Dexter,its Jabba’s old argument
    “is the club doing everything it can to make the team as strong as possible”
    I think Henristic ,with his 20/20 hindsight,thinks not.
    I think Arsene has done what he believed was in the clubs best interests.And as he was in possession of more relevant facts,at the time of making those decisions,than anyone else.That will do for me.

  183. Thanks for cleatring that up for me PG. I always knew henristic was a doomer really, just too afraid to come out the closet. 🙂

  184. I think what is kinda funny about the chavs winning the CL, is that now he finally has got his dream, Abramovich is about to sack the person who got him that trophy he’s wanted all these years.

  185. pedantic george

    He would be better sacking JT

  186. Dex,
    Pot. Kettle? 😉

    You know what I’m on about. You have a good memory, remember? I see how you’ve slipped Arsene into the argument as if it was ever about him. Tut tut.
    This was about Stan and whether he has any other choice than to give up and not bother trying to compete with the little he’s got.

  187. ‘Little’ in relative terms of course

  188. Bradys right foot

    We are counting the clock down to the kit and shirt sponsorship deals. How much would they be worth? I’d be surprised if we couldn’t get around £50 million a year for both. The Arsenal “brand” is criminally undervalued at the moment by Nike and Emirates, However we did negotiate them at a time when football finance wasn’t quite so obscene. These deals will transform the club and our ability to attract players and if FFP holds any water these deals would enable to go toe to toe in the transfer market with anyone.

  189. Bradys right foot

    The £50 million for both if only, thats combined lol before someone has a go.

  190. BRF

    How much did the scousers get? That was a shit load man.

  191. “Where were these fucking philanthropic billionaires when we were scrabbling round selling our arses trying to find the neccesary spondooliks to build the stadium? Fucking nowehere, now they are fighting over themselves to have a piece of the pie.”

    Despite my promise to scroll past your posts this one did catch my eye and I thought it worthy of a hear hear!

    arse or brain @5.29 pm – that is so true. I have to run the gauntlet at work whenever we have a bad result – even LFC fans think they can take the p*ss!

    FG, when Stan bought Arsenal FC shares I think he also bought Arsenal Broadband. He definitely has plans to expand that side of the business.

  192. pedantic george

    Henristic .It is not even a debate .
    We can’t compete in the market “so why try” is my premise.

    I really don’t think some people grasp just too what extent City and Chelsea have perverted the market.
    They knock our new stadium windfall into a cocked hat.That was never foreseen when the move was planned.

  193. Passenal;

    You always did have good taste. I know we had a little set to, but life’s too short to bare grudges, unless it concerns George of course.

  194. Bradys right foot

    Dex the Warrior deal is £25 million a year and they’ve actually gone and made the scousers a very nice homekit compare to the apparel vomit Nike has served up for the gunners, there owned by New Balance. The Standard Charter deal is £20 million a year. there is no doubt that Liverpool are a huge club but I would expect that we would be able to negotiate similar deals.

  195. @ Jonny
    You posted the comment which started the discussion,and previously you’ve argued in a similar vein to lsg.

    @ YW
    I saw that that “intermediate stock market” thingy was on the way out, and wondered what it meant for us. Can we choose between going wholly private or wholly public, or will it depend on other factors?

    @ bill

    As I recall, in the first two or three years, a higher priority was given to using the profits from the flats to pay the debt down quickly and reduce the outgoings in interest, but there was a re-balancing and re-structuring around 2008/09 to make more cash available to the football side. It is my understanding that the stadium debt is not secured on the land and buildings at Ashburton Grove, but on the club’s financial health. We have to balance the books and keep a certain amount of money in reserve to keep the lenders happy. I can’t say for sure if this is the case with Arsenal, but in general, the less collateral you have, or the worse your credit, the higher the rate of interest you pay. Again I am guessing, but the rate we pay might be dependent on having a certain percentage of turnover or the debt in cash. So by spending more than is deemed prudent or having a much smaller reserve, we might have more in the short term but less in the medium to long term.

    Swiss Rambler’s estimate of £50 million in reserve from last year’s accounts doesn’t represent a huge amount on an annual basis over five years. I don’t know if that includes the reserve amount or not, but even assuming it doesn’t, I can’t see that it would have made a significant difference to our transfer dealings and wage levels, given how much City and Chelsea in particular have spent over that period of time. And remember that we did try to spend even more money last summer, but couldn’t get the right players. Perhaps they think some of the money is better used on things like the medical centre or the Academy or something.

    The result of good business practice is that the share price remains high, which has huge benefits for the shareholders, especially SK or AU if/when they do sell. I don’t know what was in the minds of the old board but they made an agreement not to sell their shares for a year or two when SK first came on the scene. SK eventually bought Fiszman’s (on his deathbed) and Lady Nina B-S’s shares to keep them out of the hands of Usmanov and retain the club’s business model and philosophy. Which leads me to believe that the share price was a secondary consideration at that time.

    I don’t know much about accounting so YW, jjgsol, notoverthehill, anyone, please feel free to correct or fill in any blanks in the above.

    @ Dexter and Passenal
    Go on, kiss and make up, you two!

  196. Too true Dexter @ 7.41 pm – I wouldn’t have found much to read otherwise as you were one of the few making sense today. I think our little set too was probably just a misunderstanding, which I’m happy to acknowledge and move on.

    BRF, I would say Liverpool were a huge club, so if they can attract deals like that based on history, I would be very disappointed if we couldn’t attract similar deals with our history and style of play. Haven’t some clubs been getting sponsors to subsidise the wages of star players? Couldn’t we look into something like that to keep our ‘names’?

  197. I know that’s your point George, and clearly I don’t agree with such a defeatist attitude.

  198. FG;

    Already done! 🙂

  199. pedantic george

    I think your kind call it being a “Realist” Henristic

  200. “And remember that we did try to spend even more money last summer, but couldn’t get the right players.”

    I remember IG in one of his Americanism’s said that we had ‘kept some of our powder dry’. Basicially, we could not get all the players it was rumoured that we made bids for, so presumably we have money from last summer to add to whatever we can free up from sales or getting wages off the books this summer to enable us to get our business done.

    It looks like a forward was our key requirement as Arsene always buys his main target early in the window. The rest will probably depend on our ability to move on those we don’t want or who don’t want to be here. We also never know whether some who appear to be out in the cold, could make a triumphant return, if the fans will give them a second chance!

  201. @FG – yes I asked the question (though that was not leading, but a genuine question) and to be clear ‘no’ LSG’s and my stance are not the same. I completely agree with, and understand, your specific point. I’d articulate my actual POV but I am 100% sure you have zero interest, so I’ll save my breath.
    Been a weird week all round – totally frazzled and taking an early bath.
    Good night all – good stuff PG.

  202. arsenalandrew

    Marvelous post, George; wonderful sentiments, beautifully expressed.

    For me personally, ACLF is Arsenal’s 4th Dimension.

    The first dimension is being able to see the team play, either in person or on tv, or even listening on the radio.

    The second is reading about the team in newspapers, magazines and books, on and offline.

    The third dimension is being able to discuss Arsenal in person with friends, fans and foe.

    So this fourth dimension, a gift from the online age, is a big part of my Arsenal Life, a place I come to be entertained and educated, often in equal measure. A place I can even sometimes offer up a small contribution of my own from time to time.

    A great place, with great people.

    And an originator, in YW, who, with his measured dedication, patience and commitment, and for his services to the club and its fans, deserves his own statue.

  203. FG

    As majority shareholder, I believe the decision rests with KSE and whether or not they see benefits with staying public or taking the club private. Frankly I am not so concerned about the finances since with plurality of ownership, the information will come into the public domain. I would be more concerned that it is used as a reason to close of contact with the supporters. No matter what anyone says, the biggest failing of KSE is not being seen to listen to the support in terms of ticket prices, for example.

    I don’t care what supporter organisations think of the players, they don’t represent me on that score and to be honest, they miss the point about claiming that democracy exists over that point. However, the board suffers from exceptionally poor PR and by extension the club and KSE would in my opinion, be taking a strong lead by starting to engage with ‘us’ more directly.

  204. Passenal,

    He did indeed by into the broadband, purchasing Granada’s shares.

  205. Notoverthehill

    PG, your article disabuses me of the fact that I thought you were, from your pavilion “oop nor'”, some sort of “bummeree”. Unless there was editorial control?

    YOU do know proper football and players. Arshavin, three yellows in the last four games! Yes, PG you certainly know your football and WHAT club to support.

    FG, another time, another day!

  206. Bradys right foot

    Yogi the AST have done some very good thing but under Paytons watch they have commented on specific players when meeting with Gazidis and he has also used his position to misrepresent his views on the manager as that of a AST. This was never the purpose of the AST.

    I do think the PR at the club have been very poor in recent years and one part of the club that seems to have strategically to be operating in the last century. Its reactionary and no pro active coherent communications strategy seems to be in place.

  207. @ YW
    Thanks for the thoughts on our stock market listing.

    Re interacting with the supporters, I can’t see SK changing his ways. Going by that interview he did, hands-off will remain his style. As you know, I am more relaxed about his laissez-faire attitude than you are.

    Agree about the AST – I assume you were alluding to them?

  208. Indeed the AST do good work but so do AISA, who more importantly steer clear of commenting on the players.

  209. @ Notoverthehill | May 20, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    FG, another time, another day!

    I shall hold you to that promise.

  210. pedantic george

    Ok,what is a “bummeree” ?

  211. Bradys right foot

    I probably wouldn’t google that PG lol.

  212. Well an armoury is where you get lots of arms from so a bummeree…

  213. pedantic george

    a dealer at Billingsgate fish market.


  214. Made an early post….went to work…done reading all of today’s comments. Excellent!

    H’mmm. YW that pedant is no slouch, I would watch him if I were you. LOL.

  215. Nice to have a lot of Indian gooners here; finally!

    BTW, we have city based supporter clubs here so you guys can join. The one in my city (New Delhi) has live screenings which is something I never thought would be a possibilty. Hoping to meet one of you soon!

  216. Oh & great post, PG. Almost everyone has been able to relate to it & that speaks volumes anout the quality of the post. Keep up your spirit on here!

  217. mj_gunner | May 21, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Can you tell me the exact location?

  218. @sahil – It’s a pub named Route04 in CP. Join the Delhi supporters club on FB.

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