When Love Breaks Down

The club’s financial results remain firmly in the picture, this week will see the interim results published which includes the sales of Fabregas and Nasri. For once though, myths are being laid to rest. Arsenal does spend money; the net revenues from those two were spent bar £12m following the signings in August. How wise the investments were is a different matter.

Once more the issue of transfer funds is being clouded by cash balances. Few, if any, clubs pay the whole of a transfer fee up front. Most deals are structured like an HP agreement paid off over years. There is nothing new in this; indeed following the sale of Nicolas Anelka to Real Madrid, the next set of Arsenal accounts noted that the club had been caught up in the Galactico meltdown with the Spanish club missing a payment deadline and breaching the sale contract.

A key concern to emerge is whether or not the club will fall foul of Financial Fair Play (FFP). The loss of Champions League revenues cannot be underestimated. Currently, the estimate is £45m. Arsenal think this is a situation which can be carried in the short-term and indeed bluntly putting the loss of revenue in the frame is misleading; there are ancillary costs which will reduce as a consequence. For example, bonuses reduce, the same with stadium and travel costs to name but a few. It is the profit which will hurt most in the financial sphere and that is still a significant sum.

Which is before looking at who will and will not leave thus reducing the salaries cost.

This is before we consider whether or not the club will actually fall foul of the FFP regulations. The headline losses over a period of time is well-known, it makes good, sensationalist copy. Provisions exist that show a flexibility to Uefa which signals that club’s are not going to be barred from participating unless there is a clear and present danger of financial collapse. That laymen have come to such conclusions tells you all you need to know; when lawyers get involved, kiss FFP goodbye.

A fuller summary is on the Arsenal Supporters Trust website.

The fundamental issue is the feeling that trust is lost between the supporters and club. That is a grand, sweeping statement and not representative of all views. Some will disagree, others varying along a ‘trust sliding scale’. Sometimes it manifests in seemingly peculiar instances, positively irrelevant issues blown out of proportion, for example the argument over attendance figures. Note that the club do not even speak of them any more.

Essentially, I wonder if the level of trust we believed was there, actually existed in the first place.

The AST serves an important function, alongside the AISA. Both represent the views of fans to the club; with issues such as ticket pricing, the consensus opinion is needed to be put forward and even the club are aware of the need not to price supporters out of the ground. Not that this is anything new.

When the North Bank Stand was needed under the terms of legislation, the Independent Arsenal Supporters Association, the forerunner of the independent supporters movement at Arsenal, received a letter from Peter Hill-Wood noting the concerns about ticket prices but that the board’s hands were tied by legal requirements. Expecting to stave off long-term increases is deceiving yourself, all the two can do is keep the pressure on the decision-makers to ensure they are aware of supporter feelings on the matter but don’t expect significant concessions.

At what point does a stand be made? Arguably if there were ever a time to do so, it would be now. On ticketing prices, I do not think there would be much opposition to a stand. Except nobody seems able to keep matters to a single issue in such circumstances; too often causes are hijacked with playing matters  or become convoluted, lost in the maelstrom of demands.

How this sits with KSE or the board is another matter. There is an arrogance in the belief that they have to listen to us; it is as meaningless as the promises Arsenal make that the manager is accountable to supporters. In fact that latter comment by Ivan was infinitely more dangerous since it engendered a mistaken sense of entitlement. In some respects, Arsène is accountable to us but only in justification of performances.

The key aspect of managerial employment is out of supporters hands, rightly the sole responsibility of the club’s owners. And before anyone argues on that, remember the owners are the employers not the fan base. Can you imagine trying to get any consensus on that issue? The United Nations cannot find solutions to the multitude of bigger problems in the world…

And this is where fan organisations falter: when they observe that they represent the views of the support. Quite simply, when it comes to on the pitch matters, they cannot. It is too much of a broad church and cannot be subject to the same ‘democratic’ process as issues such as tickets and benefits. They cannot be; the only person who represents my views is me. I will find consensus with  others on some issues but there will be a number of conflicting views as well. That is fine, it is how it should be.

Supporters need to unite on some issues but commenting on playing matters? We can’t even agree on the issues that we disagree about so that we can have a full-blown disagreement.

Prescient or coincidence? Arsenal On This Day is the end of days in 1995.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on February 21, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 499 Comments.

  1. hunter (from yesterdays thread),
    Are you saying we haven’t had a team/squad good enough to win the league in the last 6-7 years?
    I beg to differ. The team last season and the season before, as well as that of 07/08 was of title winning quality, imo.

    In some weird way, you do sometimes sound like a doomer. An AKB doomer, har har.

  2. Hunter (from yesterday) – Fair enough. A very sweeping statement, but that is your call. I would agree with yuo on the “Arsenal Haters” comment mind as they have an agenda. But plenty of people who have good standing in the game have also raised concerns who are most definatly not Arsenal haters.

    You can’t simply cast any commets and thoughts aside which don’t tally with your own. Especially when some of the thoughts are coming from people with a better understanding than yourself.

    It is difficult for anybody (whichever side of the fence they sit) to really offer any insight or relevant thought to Arsenal’s financial goings on, as very few (and probably none on internet forums) actually know the full picture.

    You should really stop going on about “destroying somebody” though, as I have not seen you come anywhere near close to doing so. The only thing yuo have destroyed is my eyeballs from reading your posts 😉

  3. YW – Interesting read. I am not sure how relevant the AST is though to be honest. They only represent a minority of fans and increasingly seem to have their own agenda.

  4. It would be good to see a stand re-introduced at Arsenal. However, I went on a Legends tour only a couple of weeks ago (aptly on Valentines Day) and King Charlie told us that due to council restrictions The Emirates can never have any expansion to it. Whether this means in terms of building or capacity I don’t know but surely a terrace would mean greater capacity? It is something perhaps worth considering before embarking on a campaign that may just be a non-starter.

  5. A terrace might bring back some atmosphere to the stadia too! At least it would allow all of us who want to stand and make loads of noise to do so without feeling like a cock in amongst a load of quiet clappers and moaners.

  6. Henristic | February 21, 2012 at 9:20 am

    goonerandy | February 21, 2012 at 9:32 am

    lol my replies are on yday;s page…

  7. A terrace might bring back some atmosphere to the stadia too! At least it would allow all of us who want to stand and make loads of noise to do so without feeling like a cock in amongst a load of quiet clappers and moaners.

    fine words!

  8. It is difficult for anybody (whichever side of the fence they sit) to really offer any insight or relevant thought to Arsenal’s financial goings on,

    i dont see how arsenal;s finances interest you …..i mean…the people on top of this are pretty good at what they do or else they wouldnt be there…just saying…

    if you find my logic offensive ok then…what can i say.

    i see a 450million stadium and i understand thatthis has to be paid for before purchasing title winning charcaters…in the meantime we will try and build some. this could take anything between 10-15 years….what do you suggest fans do? throw their toys out the pram with every bad result ?

  9. balanced?

    haha

    so every article that sticks the knife in is called “balanced” now ?

  10. Did any of you read the AST report?

  11. Good post Yogi,

    The manager IS ultimately accountable to fans, not directly of course, but the link is there. I mean in the sense that the fans can make his position untenable by staying away from games, or being generally disruptive.
    Its not likely that that will happen at Arsenal at this stage but its theoretically plausible if things really get bad, and that, I think, was Ivan’s point.

  12. GA, What is it with all the Guardian links, are you working on pay-per-click?

  13. Hunter – Just seen yuor answers, and predictably you have chosen somebody like Piers Morgan as an example.

    I was thinking for of the likes of Keown/PV4/Lee Dixon/Nigel Winterburn/Dennis Bergkamp. I could go on.

    They have all expressed differing concerns over the past few years. I don’t think they really have an agenda and all seem to have genuine love for the club. Sure, people like Ian Wright will spout all types of crap but the people I have just mentioned are all pretty level headed individuals with good standing in the game. They are not comments for the media, they have made comments out of concern.

    Do you just cast their opinions aside as they don’t quite tally with your own views?

  14. interesting read both here and on the AST website. it all comes down to wages as a lot of people have constantly said.

    YW, i think that the fans employ the manager, if they lose trust in him and stop spending on either matchday or replica kits, management upstairs will stand up and listen. in business, i was told that there is a circle…….the owners take care of the employees who in turn take care of the customers, and they in turn take care of the owners.

  15. Hunter,

    Didn’t see your response. can you do a quick recap? Would like to know if you really think our squads this past years have always not been good enough.

  16. Hunter – “balanced?

    haha

    so every article that sticks the knife in is called “balanced” now ?

    See here’s the thing; it is not “sticking the knife in”. It highlights some decent points and it is hard to argue with the points. You need to be a bit more open to opinion mate.

    drew10 – Heh, I have just realised. Maybe I should approch them for commision? The ironic thing is I don’t read the thing, I just noticed the article from another link.

  17. Henristic – On yuor point; I think the squad’s have been technically good enough. Mentally, not so much.

  18. Hunter – Just seen yuor answers, and predictably you have chosen somebody like Piers Morgan as an example.

    I was thinking for of the likes of Keown/PV4/Lee Dixon/Nigel Winterburn/Dennis Bergkamp. I could go on.

    what has keown said against wenger? or pv4 ? or lee or nigel or dennis?

    do you hear them talk about the manager or the players ? i hear them talking about the players…

    but the players and what type of players and how much money will be spend is a policy that comes from the board..not wenger….

    if the policy is to recruit youngsters for 10 years , obvisouly they cant buy ready and established.

    titles are won by the ready and established…..the comments of them people are targetting the decission and policy makers.

  19. AA

    See that’s the thing. Football fans might stop going but never in sufficient numbers that cause anyone to particularly care.

    Look back at the last forty years since Bertie Mee.

      Terry Neill – sacked because of results [Fans protest weeks before he is removed but ultimately the board react to declining performance].
      Howe – resigned because Board wanted Venables. Results dictate his removal.
      Graham – See Arsenal On This Day
      Rioch – Player issues

    So how many of those were removed as a result of what supporters thought. The best you can hope for is Neill and even that is stretching the point.

  20. It highlights some decent points and it is hard to argue with the points.

    i disagree ….the points he raises he shouldnt even raise them if he understood that this team got fucked in the summer and is bleeding…… kicking a man while already down is not honourable…thats wht these articles are doing.

    arsenal lost fabregas..wenger lost the player he was building future arsenal around…what did people expect? lol….. trophies?

  21. Azed

    Yes, probably before you did.

  22. Hunter 13

    i see a 450million stadium and i understand thatthis has to be paid for before purchasing title winning charcaters…in the meantime we will try and build some. this could take anything between 10-15 years….what do you suggest fans do? throw their toys out the pram with every bad result ?
    —————————————————————————————————
    The stadium financing deals states that we should invest a certain % in the playing squad and Wenger does this by increasing the contracts of the dross which inturn means we can’t sell players like Almunia, Squid e.t.c

  23. for henristic

    hunter,
    You’re saying we haven’t had a team that is able to win the titles in the last 6-7 years?.

    no i said that they were critisised without being the finished article yet .
    and even if the 07 team had won it it would have been an anomally. against the odds, and againt logic. it would have been nice though.

    the thing is that they always looked capable of doing it, but we preferredd to castigate them for failing instead of congratulating for getting so close at such an age.

  24. So Hunter, given you don’t think that there is any point in discussing the finances, does this mean you’re not going to give us any more stream of consciousness today?

  25. The Patrick Barclay column makes plenty sense.There is room for improvement in the squad if only we can get some of the underperformers out the door. I don’t agree on every one of his list to be gotten rid of, but we should be looking to move on the majority on there. Whether it’s possible or not is another matter.

  26. ‘…the only person who represents my views is me’

    quite

  27. The stadium financing deals states that we should invest a certain % in the playing squad and Wenger does this by increasing the contracts of the dross which inturn means we can’t sell players like Almunia, Squid e.t.c

    no that is a suggestion …one method..another method is to repay it all back as quickly as possible..thus a repayment phase that was gonna last 15-20 years wenger and the club have sliced in half with about 135m debt remaining..within 7 years arsenal has paid back about 70% of the cost of their stadium….and they always secured champions league football…. with children instead of winning characters. phenomenal stuff. unreal in current competitive climate.

  28. If we are talking lowering the wage bill. We currently have lots of players out on loan, 16 I think. Of those surely Bendtner, Denilson and Vela would command decent transfer fees, if perhaps not as much now as last season. But it would seriously free up some of the wages. To be honest I don’t know if we still pay these players whilst they are away or even a percentage but I don’t see any of these 3 returning. Plus I am sure that there are a few more that will be shown the door come the end of the season.

  29. Yogi’s Warrior | February 21, 2012 at 10:08 am

    lol if we need to explain simple economic principles ok then…

    in my life i have learned that when you owe money your first priority is to pay it back…..

    my pride is in the fact that I OWE NOTHING TO NOBODY.

    something the others clubs cant say…but arsenal certainly can!

  30. People will not stop paying. The reason that there are regularly empty seats in the stadium is because season ticket holders don’t turn up. But they have paid for their tickets. Why? Because they do not want to lose their season tickets. They do not damage the club but they do ruin the matchday experience for others who want to watch a game of football….and they prevent others from getting into the game.

  31. Yogi,
    Top post most balanced and sums up the situation very well,

  32. drew10

    To my untrained eye, I should imagine that the combined worth of that trio is about £15m. Bendtner £6m, Denilson £4m, Vela £5m. The Dane isn’t ripping up the PL at Sunderland, Denilson has “issues” on the pitch and Vela is doing what he does best; being engimatic. Don’t forget Lansbury who will probably garner £2m.

    Add to that list Almunia who will presumably leave on a free, Squillaci whom the club tried to offload last summer.

    That is a sizeable amount off the weekly wage bill and would for example, cover the increase salary to RvP and Theo quite comfortably I should think.

  33. Hunter – I am talking about the team as well. You seem to be firlmy fixated on maknig all converstation being an attack/defence on the manager. All mentioned have given concerns on the team, which in some way does relfect on the manager. Serisouly mate, you come across as a Arsne supporter, not an Arsenal supporter.

    i disagree ….the points he raises he shouldnt even raise them if he understood that this team got fucked in the summer and is bleeding…… kicking a man while already down is not honourable…thats wht these articles are doing.

    Honourable? What does that have anything to do with if the comments have any base (which they do). And we didn’t lose Fabregas, we agreed to sell him so we only have ourselves to blame there.

    Arsenal football club is not some sort of pub team which gets bullied by “the big boys” as you seem to think. We are abig football club with excellent standing in world football. We are going through a bad patch at the moment. Some of it our own doing, and some of it due to the current climate of football as a whole.

  34. “i disagree ….the points he raises he shouldnt even raise them if he understood that this team got fucked in the summer and is bleeding…… kicking a man while already down is not honourable…thats what these articles are doing”.

    I agree with Hunter

  35. You need to be a bit more open to opinion mate.

    depends on the opinion though ….. where it comes from , and what stature/value it holds.

    the opinion of a morgan or a jabba or a hansen or a wirght does not interest me at all……they may serve certain agendas….

    the opinion of a drunk masterbator doesnt interest me either…nor does the opinion of a rival troll who has suffered 16 years watching wenger tearing him a new one. 😉

    also dont ignore the fact that due to wenger;s superior class which is confused for arrogance,the rivals and haters will love to watch him fail….dont forget that.

  36. Honourable? What does that have anything to do with if the comments have any base

    are you suggesting that the man responsible for the unbeaten phenomenon gets disgraced by some hacks without taking into account the difficulties he faced this summer ?

  37. Frank – “People will not stop paying. The reason that there are regularly empty seats in the stadium is because season ticket holders don’t turn up. But they have paid for their tickets. Why? Because they do not want to lose their season tickets. They do not damage the club but they do ruin the matchday experience for others who want to watch a game of football….and they prevent others from getting into the game.

    I would agree with that. Whilst some may be throwing their teddies out of the pram and not turning up, there are plenty who would give their righjt arm to be lucky enough to have a seaosn holder. Our fan base stretches much further than the 59,000 that go to the ground each week.

  38. Just Another Luke

    On stadium debt and profits, my knowledge of finance tells me that profits is after interest (on debt outstanding). Debt principal repayment is a matter of the loan amortisation and has an impact on cashflow but zero impact on profits.

    (As a matter of interest only and not a central issue to things on the pitch,)

  39. Now there Frank, is something you, I and the AST definitely agree on. Ticket Exchange is deemed not to be working properly but not sure how it can be improved in that the club cannot unfortunately force a ST holder to resell their ticket.

    Perhaps forcing ST Holders to attend at least 50% of the home games? What of those who are unable to make midweek matches all of the time? Perhaps reducing the number of STs available. Revolutionary I know but when there are unsold STs and no-one on the waiting list wants them, put them back into general circulation?

  40. GA,
    in 2001-2002, we had the following strikers, Henry, Kanu, Wiltord and Bergkamp. Edu was a fantastic midfielder that was only good enough to start an odd game.

    In 2002-2003 season, we had an even bigger squad that had way better depth in areas like the backline and midfield. the 03-04 team saw Reyes coming in.

    Fast forward to the 2011-2012 team…….its frustrating. Back in the day, Edu would not start, and he was class, Giovanni Van Bronkhost wouldnt start at the back, but was a rotation player up to the day we sold him off, and he was a fantastic player.

    Someone told me at the start of this season that we were not going to win anything. i told him that he was writing the team off before they had played a game. we then had the worst summer, and the worst squad i have seen since AW came in. sometimes i like to look at the squads we had over the last decade, and its an indictment of how weak we are at current moment.

    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/team/squad/_/id/359/season/2004/league/all/arsenal?cc=3888

    I see people blaming Chelsea and City for some of our woes, but when Roman took over the blues, we had a squad made up of the invincibles. we had a squad with good depth when compared to the current moment where even if players are fit we have to play a certain core because the rest are not good enough. the world of football has changed, every fan admits that, but as a team, we have made a huge number of mistakes and some of the blame has to fall on the board while AW must also bear his fair amount

  41. Arsenal football club is not some sort of pub team which gets bullied by “the big boys” as you seem to think. We are abig football club with excellent standing in world football. We are going through a bad patch at the moment. Some of it our own doing, and some of it due to the current climate of football as a whole.

    it has nothing to do with what arsenal is/was …its about the players who were representing us while we were repaying our stadium and still are. there is nothing you can do when drogba owns a 20 year old fabregas, you accept it. its the law of nature and football. drogba has seen stuff and appeared in stages that fabregas had no clue about.

    and these words like ” big club” ..”excellent standing in world football” are the result of wenger , noone else.

    i know we are going through a bad patch ..ive known it ever since we moved grounds and saw the club competing with 17 year olds against ready and established world class winners.

  42. GA

    >Our fan base stretches much further than the 59,000 that go to the ground each week.

    But according to Jabba and his ilk, those who don’t go are worth less. Or worthless. Oh, are just not as important as those who do.

  43. Hunter – You are a bit mental I think.

    the opinion of a drunk masterbator doesnt interest me either…nor does the opinion of a rival troll who has suffered 16 years watching wenger tearing him a new one

    Quite amazing, and makes no sense at all.

    are you suggesting that the man responsible for the unbeaten phenomenon gets disgraced by some hacks without taking into account the difficulties he faced this summer

    No because our summer did not go according to plan, nobody is allowed to critique the side? And lets not forget that some of the “difficulties” were of our own doing.

  44. Hunter 13
    The % investment in the team is not a suggestion, its a fact. Arsenal is a football team, if the team gets relegated, the bankers don’t get their money hence the clause that a certain % of profit is re-invested in the team.
    Wenger gets around this by improving contracts of players.. Wenger once said the transfer money he gets end of season includes money for improving contracts.

  45. YW,
    “there’s an arrogance in the belief that they have to listen to us”.
    really, at worst they should treat us as paying customers and believe me listening is the very least that’s expected of them.

  46. ,,‘…the only person who represents my views is me’ but sometimes, via ESP / JMT, I farm them out to Hunter, PG, Frank, Dex, Paul N, ZimPaul, cBob, steww, Ateeb etc.

    i.e, my views are constantly well stated by my fellow RASERs
    LOL

  47. YW – I know, strange eh? The arguments of “who is the better fan” are amazingly childlike and belong in the playground.

  48. goonerandy | February 21, 2012 at 10:25 am

    what makes no sense ? that i dont hold the opinion of a drunk masterbator on arsenal as a serious one? or the opinions of rivals and haters?

    why should i ? what is their motivation? ..the good of arsenal? ..haha …

    “No because our summer did not go according to plan, nobody is allowed to critique the side?”

    and whose fault is that? only wenger;s? ….come on now….

  49. Yogi’s Warrior | February 21, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Results are the only things that concern the fans……….at Arsenal, they have been on the downward spiral, and the squad seems to get worse every season. Cesc left because of that, Nasri would not commit before he knew that Cesc was going to stay or before he saw what the squad for the season would look like aside from demanding a huge wage increase.

  50. Hunter 13
    Great of you defending Wenger but you that blindly..
    From the ast report,
    Last season at Highbury = 48 professionals
    Current season = 71 proffesionals

    yet you keep stadium re-payment is hampering us but our playing squad increases in quantity but decreases in quality. same thing as our wage bill.

  51. Hunter – Why do you always back to nobody being able to question the manager.

    a. That is not true, the guy makes mistakes the same as everybody else.
    b. Who said anything about the the fault being only Wenger’s? You are the one that keeps bringing converstations to that.

  52. rahl

    Then you don’t understand the relationship between club and supporter. It is not that of paying customer. If it was ticket prices would be around 50% of what they currently are, for example.

    And, how do you get a consensus on opinion about how the team is doing? How? As I said in the post, it is hard to get consensus on what we disagree on. I wouldn’t even try to begin to get a consensus on what we agree on.

  53. Azed | February 21, 2012 at 10:26 am

    look in principle i dont disagree that there should be balance in what you save for a rainy day and what you invest in first team. But at the same time i cant say its wrong if they chose to pay it all back as fast as possible. will the club suffer in the title front because of that? you bet.

    however if the arsenal board are willing to wait then why not? wenger can wait too. he sees ramsey now not being at the required level but within three years time ramsey could be the captain of this team …lol…patience….

    the fans are the problem…they are the ones who cant wait….they are the ones who want titles trophies this and that…and naturally when they dont get them they will be disappointed and cry..its what babies do to. when they cant have what they want they cry. Merlot gave a historical account of the years arsenal has gone trophyless …. 🙂 have you all missed it? …in those historical stats you will notice how arsenal fans today have lost the plot.

  54. The name Arsenal Supporters Trust is an oxymoron in itself.

    From what I have seen there are plenty of people who are part of it who, based on their writings on their blogs, are in no way ‘supporters’ of AFC.

    And I don’t remember ever asking for any of them to speak on my behalf.

  55. It is been stated quite clearly from the start that the stadium re-payments are not “hampering us” one bit. The finances are completly seperate from the playing side of things. We are not reaping the benifits quite yet (from the additional income) which we will once it has been paid in full, but Danny Fizmann stated from the outset that it would not impact on the playing side of things. And I tend to believe him.

  56. Hunter – Why do you always back to nobody being able to question the manager.

    because he is one of the finest managers in the game and i would say one of the finest in sports in general.

    he does not have to prove anything to anybody and certainly not to those to whom he gave a brand new stadium.

    i also told you yday…the people who can critisise him have to be equal or above him.

    the only person with those qualifications is fergie.

    unless you think i should disregard the international federation of football history and statistics and focus on morgan;s words….. 😉

  57. I agree with Aman (10.18), who agrees with Hunter.

    Sometimes it feels as though there is a ‘Lord of the Flies’ aspect to elements of the AFC supporter base. There is a good number of supporters swept along by a pack mentality, an unholy coalition of disparate elements with individual agendas and only one thing in common – their dislike of ‘x’ as articulated and represented by Arsene Wenger (to build on YW’s excellent original post).

    We know this to be true from the nature of the comments and the reappearance of certain types of individuals who only ever appear on this very blog following a defeat or a draw.

    Sad really; the rise and rise of the fair weather fan can only ultimately be balanced by the fall of the club they purport to support.

    And it’s true; in life we often get what we deserve.

    Which is why I agree with Aman who agrees with Hunter.

  58. hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 10:30 am

    AW has to take blame for the contract situation at the club and the failure to better the quality in playing staff that includes substitutes. United currently have one world class striker and three very good strikers, we have but one.
    They have a midfield that consists of Scholes, Giggs, Cleverly, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson and on occasion, they play Rooney and Phil Jones over there with no loss in quality. We on the other hand cannot afford to rest Arteta or Song, and there doesnt seem to be a player that can step up and do what Wilshere does.
    Over at the wings, they have Nani, Young, Valencia, Park, and either Giggs or Welbeck playing there if and when needed……….any combination does the job for them.
    At the back, they can trust Evans to play and do a job even when Vidic and Ferdinand are fit, we cannot play Djourou unless there is an emergency.

    I love AW, but he has messed up in some places and we are a worse off squad for that.

  59. Hunter,

    I once got promoted from League 1 on Football Manager, so I think I am qualified to question him.

    Well – that is what you would believe based on some of the blogosphere….

  60. Hunter 13
    The fans dont want trophy at all cost, they want to see players play with heart and passion. The current squad we have are a bunch of over paid babies. They bottle it every season and Wenger keeps talking of mental strength.
    Wenger aint their fathers and he should keep emotions out of it. Cesc said it was because of Wenger that the board accepted a cut price from barca….What do you say about that?

  61. b. Who said anything about the the fault being only Wenger’s? You are the one that keeps bringing converstations to that.

    well youre the ones blaming it all on him ….youre the ones saying “wenger must go if he doesnt improve the squad”

    well gentlemen its not wenger;s decission to improve the squad ..its not wenger;s decission whether arsenal will spend on world class winners or developing players ……

    if 10% of your collective venom on wenger was directed towards the board i would agree …partly…

  62. I really do think that much of the fans frustrations stem from the ridiculous way we have thrown matches away in the past 5 or 6 years. It seems a relatively small thing I suppose, but technically our players are better than most so should have produced more. That in itself is a huge frustration for most I suspect.

  63. I wonder if there is zero expectation on winning anything at the beginning of the season it is actually more enjoyable?

    That way you can just go to the matches on a game by game basis and enjoy football for what it is?

  64. Matt

    I once got promoted from League 1 on Football Manager, so I think I am qualified to question him.

    Well – that is what you would believe based on some of the blogosphere….
    —————————————————————————————————–
    If you have never been a politician how do you decide on who you vote for?
    If you did not study Architecture/building Tech how would you know a rubbish building?
    If you’ve not raised a cow, how do you know when milk is sour?

  65. Serious question: Is Arteta the Denilson it’s ok to like? Tidy in possession but sends the majority of passes sideways or back to where they just came from, rarely attempts an incisive through ball, occasional goalscorer who’s not afraid to shoot from outside the box, a little too easily shrugged off the ball…have they been seen in the same room together or both been on the pitch when we’ve previously played Everton?

  66. Hunter 13
    The fans dont want trophy at all cost, they want to see players play with heart and passion.

    some fans want trophies irrespective of where we find ourselves 4 – 5 years down the line.

    heart and passion? i dont diasgree? but thats not what is missing.

    what is missing is experience and an attitude to take control of pressure situations. that comes with character…not talent, nor heart, or passion. and you have two options…you go buy them and pay what they ask for..or you develop them and enter a hit and miss scenario for a few years.

    who makes that decission within the club? wenger? …i dont think so…..

    as for manchester comparisons…its not correct..wenger went and bought players noone had heard before for 1m 1.5m 2m 450k etc etc and fergie went out and spent heavily 20m carrick 32m rooney 14m ronaldo 17m nani 17m anderson 17m valencia 30m berbatov…lol NO COMPARISON.

  67. Hunter – 2 points.

    well youre the ones blaming it all on him ….youre the ones saying “wenger must go if he doesnt improve the squad”

    I challenge you to find one post where I have said anything of the sort. I am an Arsene supporter, but that does not mean I blindly follow.

    well gentlemen its not wenger;s decission to improve the squad ..its not wenger;s decission whether arsenal will spend on world class winners or developing players ……

    I think the board would back Wenger in any of his transfer targets as it goes. They have even said as much in the past. Only my opinion of course (based on what they have said), but there you go.

  68. … this ‘blame’ thing gets on my tits

  69. I agree with hunter

    Emirates Stadium is The House That Wenger Built

  70. Do you know why the fringe players are paid so much? Surely it’s because they already playing regular football for a Champions League club (us) when they signed their contract. Many of them were young and had scope for improvement at the time.

    Arsenal vs Roma 2009 (we played them off the park):

    Almunia, Sagna, Toure, Gallas, Clichy, Eboue (Ramsey 82), Denilson, Diaby (Song Billong 62), Nasri, Van Persie, Bendtner (Vela 67).

  71. I really do think that much of the fans frustrations stem from the ridiculous way we have thrown matches away in the past 5 or 6 years.

    thats what i mean by taking care of pressure situations….you need characters for that…

    1)do we pay for them or 2)do we develop them ?

    obviously club policy has chosen option 2 until stadium debt is cleared.

    it aint rocket science people.

  72. Vince – I have not yet seen Arteta outpaced by a middle aged referee, so I think we can safely say they are a different species of footballer 😉

  73. I challenge you to find one post where I have said anything of the sort. I am an Arsene supporter, but that does not mean I blindly follow.

    i did say youare the ones…suggesting plural and generalising cause i viewed you as a jabba type fan..sorry if that aint the case..

    i dont support blindly either …

    neither do i want success irrespective of what consequences it will have on us financially.

  74. Why do u conveniently forget we moved from Highbury to Ashburton Grove Acrylic A. Altair @ 10:24?

    why..why..why?

  75. Denilson and Arteta are about the same level.

  76. goonerandy | February 21, 2012 at 10:45 am,

    You are right, we have had some fantastic players that are technically gifted compared to what we see on most other teams. For me, i think that it is a mental issue and one to do with focus. what gets me however, is the fact that we see some players not improve each year while they get bigger contracts. their non performance always means that we play the same team even when they are fit. it is no mean feat that we played JW for most of the last campaign even thoough Diaby and Denilson were available for a good amount of time. We couldnt rest Song or Cesc when they were fit. this season, we cannot afford to rest Song, Arteta, RvP, Koscielny, and out wide, we are an injury away from seeing the same squad week in week out. At the back, we cannot afford to have either kos or vermaelen out with BFG out for the season.

    Fatigue does us in every year, that is why we collapse in the final months of every season and that can be traced back to the squad.

  77. Yogi – sorry for the late reply to my earlier post. I think there are a few more in the current first team squad that can be offloaded. Although with a squad that is already on the light side. We need depth of quality not just numbers and I just don’t see where we are going to get the money from to seriously overhaul the squad as a lot of people are expecting us to.

  78. btw ArsenalAndrew, man your 7pm post yesterday vaz da shiznits bro!
    Much much respect

  79. Hunter – “1)do we pay for them or 2)do we develop them ?

    obviously club policy has chosen option 2 until stadium debt is cleared.

    A better mixture of both would have maybe been better looking back? A bit of leadership and experience to help guide the younger players through may have really helped us through tough games where things were not going our way.

  80. I said the same thing the other day Frank.

    I don’t understand the constand need by some to find blame.

  81. Wenger aint their fathers and he should keep emotions out of it. Cesc said it was because of Wenger that the board accepted a cut price from barca….What do you say about that?

    hehehe..yes i was angry with that too …but what can you do….castigate the man for being a decent human being and letting the boy return to his home and family and friends ? imagine yourself being taken away from arsenal as a 15 year old and arsenal starts winning trebles and european cups and youre stuck in barcelona with some pansies who cant even tackle properly… wouldnt you want to go back home and get together with yourmates jack aaron kierran and own the world ?

    of course you would….. 😉 …i would too… 🙂

  82. As for the ticketing. The number of empty seats in the Emirates is embarrassing. There must be a better way for these seats to be sold off. How about a system whereby season ticket holders who are not going to attend on the day of the match being able to log on to Arsenal.com and inform the club they will not be attending. The club could then sell the seat on match day for £10-£20 allowing low earning supporters to enjoy a game. The season ticket holder loses nothing and the ground gets full and the less well off fans (of which I am currently one due to redundancy) can go and support the team.

  83. A better mixture of both would have maybe been better looking back? A bit of leadership and experience to help guide the younger players through may have really helped us through tough games where things were not going our way.

    i dont disagree ….but i dont know what available world class winners with willingness to come help arsenal you could find at that time…christ not even our legends wanted to stay back and guide the younsgters so how can we expect outsiders to want to do it?

  84. hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 10:08 am
    You’re saying we haven’t had a team that is able to win the titles in the last 6-7 years?.

    “no i said that they were critisised without being the finished article yet .
    and even if the 07 team had won it it would have been an anomally. against the odds, and againt logic. it would have been nice thoug.

    But this is what you posted yesterday.

    hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 9:09 am
    Lol again,. but this team aint a team to go and win titles , we all know that, this and the team of tha past 6 – 7 years is a work in progress with view to future, i.e after they reach their peak years. ..

    I suppose when you write and giggle (wriggle?) so much, you’re bound to confuse yourself at some point.

  85. AA

    Nasri went for money, nothing more. Even if Cesc had stayed, £200k per week is too much to turn down. Or whatever he is on. Few can blame him for improving his lot financially. What it revealed before, during and after his departure is another matter. It was not however, about the improvements needed to the squad.

    Cesc left to go to the best club side in the world at the moment? Who happen to be his hometown club.

    Neither left for the clear cut reason you say.

  86. and these words like ” big club” ..”excellent standing in world football” are the result of wenger , noone else

    Please have some respect for our History, Titles and Cups were won well before Wenger was born and i think your find a certain Mr Chapman done as much to change football and Arsenal as Wenger has, Thats not even mentioning Bertie Mee that won our first double or a certain George Graham that dragged us out of an Epic rut, Both of whom also won European trophies and in Mees case beat one of the best sides assembled in the semis that had players Such as Cruyff,Krol and Keizer,

  87. JD – I just hope we don’t use the same tactic as last time if they do make a bid. “You can’t afford it? Don’t worry we will just drop our price for you”

  88. I think where we have gone wrong is the high turnover of players. Players like Pires, Gilberto and others, if we had kept them on as the next generation were coming through the winning mentality could have been passed on. The readiness to move these players out has meant that we lost that continuity that would have been passed down to the younger players. I think that this is a lesson that the club could learn and the return of Henry has just highlighted this fact.

  89. I would personally put Arteta at the level above Denilson, Al. To be fair to Denilson though, Arteta has played more frequently breeding the consistency required. I don’t think we would get the same fee for Denilson anywhere. In fact not much more than we paid for him.

    Not sure how’s he’s performing these days but he certainly had problems adjusting to Brazilian football in the autumn.

  90. Hunter – “hehehe..yes i was angry with that too …but what can you do….castigate the man for being a decent human being and letting the boy return to his home and family and friends

    Well yes actually. He is the manager of Arsenal Football Club. Not the Patron of the Cesc Fabregas fan club.

  91. Henristic | February 21, 2012 at 11:00 am

    i dont see the point youre trying to make

    i insist ..the 07 looked capable of winning it…not certain…..and even if they had won it, it would have been a firework and a one season wonder, unsustainable. a fine bonus in the road to maturing and peaking.

    that the team showed that ability so early is a testament that the manager was working correctly.

    but you see even that team as good as it was technically, did not have the cojones/character to beat the refs , did it? ….. 🙂

  92. Agreed GA the last thing we need is a re-run of the Cesc debacle of last summer.

  93. Hunter – “hehehe..yes i was angry with that too …but what can you do….castigate the man for being a decent human being and letting the boy return to his home and family and friends”

    Well yes actually. He is the manager of Arsenal Football Club. Not the Patron of the Cesc Fabregas fan club.

    i feel sorry for the mentality you have on subjects that have to do with human beings..

    they aint robots neither do they owe anything to you or me…they owe to wenger though..so if wenger aint got a problem with it ( which isnt the case) i dont see how we can have a say on it….

  94. JD and GA – The difference is that RVP isn’t a Barcelona boy and if we were to sell him we could open the market. This was not the case with Cesc, they knew he wanted to go there and nowhere else. We were sort of over a barrel this time we hold the cards. Wow 2 clichés in one sentence go me!

  95. Artetas a far better player than Denillson – Hes also curbing his natural instincts to help the team – hes far better in a more advanced role but knows he needs to sit deeper to help try and strike some sort of balance,

  96. Yogi – I think Denilson carried more goal threat than Arteta. I have been saying for a while now that the lad did pretty much what Arteta does although Mikel does tackle and track runs better than Denilson.

  97. Should have qualified that a little, YW. I’d say this though – when Denilson was a regular, as he was for about 18 months, he filled a similar role to Arteta now, and did it just as well at a younger age.

  98. hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 11:06 am

    there was a home game before xmas and before the birmingham fiascos we won and our players were celebrating

    in that group i saw :

    adebayor with a ridiculous haircut
    gallas with a mohican
    sagan with colourful dreadlocks
    almunia with blonde extensions
    ballarina rosicky
    and some children who couldnt shave yet

    and i thought to myself…” lol..these guys aint champions look at them…lol posers” … 😉

  99. OneOfUs | February 21, 2012 at 10:49 am

    The problem is that pay has to be commensurate to the performance they offer. i will give you an example of United, they had Wes Brown for years, he had won everything there was to win, and he left on a salary of 55k per week. we have players that are nowhere near consistent enough and that is why they cannot get to the first team.
    Surely, which is better? Increasing wages of non performing players because we can or increasing wages because the said players are playing at a level that deserves a salary increase?

    OneOfUs | February 21, 2012 at 10:53 am

    No they are not, Arteta gives the team balance, he knows that he has to drop back when Song advances and can advance when Song drops deep. that is something we havent had in ages.

    Aman | February 21, 2012 at 10:51 am

    And yet, we sold two strikers for almost 30 million and replaced them with two strikers who couldnt compete with a 34 year old striker for 3 million. we have misplaced resources and its biting us

  100. Acrylic AA:

    “Fatigue does us in every year, that is why we collapse in the final months of every season and that can be traced back to the squad”.

    And now the “fans” are fatigued too eh?

    Many of our recently fatigued “fans” should borrow a leaf from our recently fatigued players and move on to less fatigue-ing (cash-green) clubs.

    It’ll save those with resillient gooner spines all their fatiguing negativity & allow us enjoy the adventure on show.. ups and down included.

    Right now though
    Arsene’s going nowhere!

  101. Jabba's Delights

    Yogi

    Lets look at it like this Yogi. 40% of so of our revenue comes from the home gate. Contrary to what many think allot of that gate still comes from london and the home counties. I think it goes without saying that these members of the fanbase are incredibly important to our club.

    Every fan is important but some more so. You and i both know Yogi that coming over for a game or going to carling cup game is very very very very different to actually putting your money where your mouth is and paying upwards of a grand on a season ticket. With tours and tv channels becoming more important the overseas fan is 100% going to become more important form the commercial side of things but at this moment in time our home support is the only revenue stream we have that the club has any influence on outside of putting a decent team on the pitch and winning something

    George can sit up in Blackburn paying his £1.50 a year on a pre season game hunting his squirrels but in reality he isnt putting cash in the clubs coffers and he isnt of that much interest to our sponsors

  102. we were top of the table and you could see they wont hold it ….of course the refs played their part too…..but an experienced “i will fuck you all” mentality of a vieira is what was missing in there. vieiras dont come out very often. special players.

  103. and btw hunter,
    I don’t think it would have been an ‘anomaly’ if the 07/08 team won the league. That team was talented and experienced enough.

  104. Yogi’s Warrior | February 21, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Cesc took a wage cut to join Barca.

  105. Aman | February 21, 2012 at 11:12 am

    What a pathetic view to have. i will support Arsenal through thick and thin, but the mere thought that i cannot voice a view is silly and infantile at best.

    Secondly, i dont want Wenger going anywhere, have stated that for a huge amount of time

  106. Arteta gives us a stronger ‘backbone’ than Denilson (pun not intended), but not much more. Neither are quite what we need, imo.

  107. Hunter/Drew – So if RvP stated that he wanted to go back to Feyanoord, but they could only afford £6M we should let him go? Also consider that Cesc had considerably longer left on his contract than RvP.

  108. Interesting read YW. You wrote ” In some respects, Arsène is accountable to us but only in justification of performances.” I dont think Arsene agrees to that point. He is shiftling blame everytime the team puts on a bad performance, bad pitch, bad referee, penalties not given etc. Only against Milan, he did accept that it was a bad performance.

  109. GA – that is just silly.

  110. Big difference between what we know about the players now to what the club was entitled to expect from them then, AA. In 2009 they were beginning to perform in the side after a difficult start. They had a lot of promise still, and were showing signs of being able to develop yet more.

    At that time you wouldn’t have found many fans who didn’t expect Vela to develop into a star for us. Many were still undecided about Denilson and Bendtner, but they’d played in some big matches and came through. Both started in that 6-1 win against Everton.

  111. drew10@11:04:
    “I think where we have gone wrong is the high turnover of players. Players like Pires, Gilberto and others, if we had kept them on as the next generation were coming through the winning mentality could have been passed on. The readiness to move these players out has meant that we lost that continuity that would have been passed down to the younger players. I think that this is a lesson that the club could learn and the return of Henry has just highlighted this fact.”

    check out hunter@10:59:

    i dont disagree ….but i dont know what available world class winners with willingness to come help arsenal you could find at that time…christ not even our legends wanted to stay back and guide the younsgters so how can we expect outsiders to want to do it?

    our legends all opted for the end-of-career big payday elsewhere.
    TH14’s last season with us was not the best especially when u remember the CL final.

    lets face it, by & large..so far today, I am one with Hunter.

  112. Drew – But why? That is more or less what we did with Cesc. We sold him at way below his market value.

  113. Anybody agree with my ticketing idea? I just came up with it and think it could be a good scheme but it fell on deaf ears/blind eyes so does that mean its a shit idea??

  114. I don’t think it would have been an ‘anomaly’ if the 07/08 team won the league. That team was talented and experienced enough.

    oh yes it would …..it would have been an unexpected triumph and a welcome bonus.

    talented for sure ? expereinced to take on refs and opposition no matter the animocity …no.

  115. Because he was going to his home club that also happen to be a place where he can win hundreds of trophies. Feyanoord don’t offer that.

  116. titles are won by the ready and established…..the comments of them people are targetting the decission and policy makers.

    Andy you were destroyed 🙂
    And I have noticed you do agree with almost everything written that is critical,of late.

    Henristic,at the beginning of that season,with TH14 just gone.Did you give that team a chance?
    Because if you did you were very clever.
    It would have been a huge surprise,We were about 20 to 1 at the bookies.

    Acryllic Altair When you factor in income tax and image rights Cesc got a nice big increase in wages.Once again you are very ill informed.Even for an idiot.

  117. Hunter/Drew – So if RvP stated that he wanted to go back to Feyanoord, but they could only afford £6M we should let him go? Also consider that Cesc had considerably longer left on his contract than RvP.

    ehhmm sorry but 6m when van persie cost 2 or 3,5 or whatever isnt much return.

    getting 40 million for a player that cost you 450,000 is a phenomenal deal….lol…

    i know it hurts sentimentally but thats the point…when your juggling with numbers and stadiums and financial restrictions there is no sentiment….only what the finances dictate.

  118. A terrace might bring back some atmosphere to the stadia too! At least it would allow all of us who want to stand and make loads of noise to do so without feeling like a cock in amongst a load of quiet clappers and moaners.

    ———

    BOOM. Some sense.

  119. Aman | February 21, 2012 at 11:22 am

    🙂

  120. Andy, Cesc was becoming a liability.He had gone before the last season started.How long are you going to keep crying about his fee?

  121. Drew – So you are saying that we agreed to sell our best player for a cut price so he could have the chance to win silverware elsewhere? If so, do yuo not think that maybe a slight flaw in our business model?

    If Cesc was in the final year of his contract (a la Nasri) I could have understood it. But he wasn’t. We had no reason to sell, and should have only done so if the offer had been too large to refuse. The fact that he wanted to leave is moot. We should have been saying “OK, you can leave if Barca match our realistic valuation”. That is rational and Cesc could have had no girevence if Barca decided not to persue it.

    But that is not what we did. We took a low price and lost our best player when we didn’t even want to sell him in the first place. Just to rub matters in only weeks later Barca bought Sanchez for over £20M. I can understand much of the goings on at the club, but the Cesc transfer still grates with me. We really bent over on that one.

  122. Acrylix: “What a pathetic view to have. i will support Arsenal through thick and thin, but the mere thought that i cannot voice a view is silly and infantile at best.

    You don’t just “voice a view” AAA, you are strictly steadily recycling your own take on issues w/o taking in what others have been sharing with you for the past month.

    Reeks jabbaesque AAA, silly and infantile at best.

  123. hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 11:06 am

    “i dont see the point youre trying to make”

    Our 07/08 team were good enough to win the league. That they didn’t is neither here nor there. Loads of teams in the world never reach thier potential for many varied reasons

    You bring up their lack of ‘character’ (as reflected in their ability to bounce back from negative situations) like its some predictable factor that you could pay for. Like if Wenger had more money, he’d get players with more grit or something. How much did the ‘grit’ players like Vierra and Petit cost?

    Character (in this context) is not something you can put a price on (as opposed to experience or technical ability). Its not priced into a footballer’s transfer fee, presumably because its impossible to define before the fact.

    Can you me the players who have been sold for more than their technical or experience value would suggest, because they had ‘character’?

  124. Jabba's Delights

    Hunter

    ”i know it hurts sentimentally but thats the point…when your juggling with numbers and stadiums and financial restrictions there is no sentiment….only what the finances dictate.”

    So thats completely contrary to to what you said earlier with regards to why are manager let cesc go and be with his friends and family in barca at a cheap rate.

  125. George – “Andy you were destroyed
    And I have noticed you do agree with almost everything written that is critical,of late.

    Heh, by eyeballs definetly were 🙂

    Hmmm, maybe so. They are always the topic of debate though eh? I do think there is plenty good about the club at the moment; we have a really good batch of youngsters coming though, but the same old problems still remain.

    And there is the thing. I could have wrote the same thing any of the last 5 seasons 😦

  126. As a complete outsider looking in, the only way through this seems to me to maintain the scouting network – try to get to exceptional talents (young and Koscielny age) before the rest – keep doing what we’ve been doing, but try somehow to do it better.

  127. Would u agree we need more fans with character as well, Henristic?

  128. GA – dont get me wrong, I too do think Barca took the piss with what they offered but Cesc said he wanted to go and to go there only. What do you do then? Keep an unhappy player or take the millions on offer?

    It was a difficult situation but I still think the best was done for the club, we still made shit loads of money the same as we did with the Anelka deal the only difference was that we didn’t have an Henry-type player to come in and replace Cesc.

  129. OneOfUs | February 21, 2012 at 11:22 am

    And therein lies the folly. i have always thought that it is wrong to have a huge wage difference between players, but i have always thought that its is even worse to have an even wage bracket where players who dont deliver and are unknown quantitties earn almost the same as players that get it done.

    Someone said that management is not paid for hindsight, but for foresight. someone should have thought of the worst case scenario should a lot of these players not live up to potential and gone on to hedge their bets based on that rather than the belief that they would come good no matter what (that seems to be the line taken seeing the number of contract extensions handed out and a larger wage bill). A good amount of players have not lived up to what was expected, and in a world where credit and risk is diminishing, there are few takers who would realistically meet our valuation and offer the wages we have offered.
    The are certain aspects that i can live with e.g. Andrei Arshavin, guy had a stunning Euro cup and took a wage cut to join, that is something i can live with. He was an established star that started out well but has somewhat gone off the boil, but the fact that we were paying relative unknowns bigger salaries that their performances are yet to justify shows just how wrong we got it.

    were there people complaining? I dont know of a lot, but i will never complain of a player unless he has had a chance to prove himself by not only making it to the first team, but proving that they are worth their salt when given the chance.

  130. Jabba

    Well, actually, spend per head in anciliary costs, eg replica kits, matchday fans are not the biggest source of income. Paying a grand on a season ticket is worth no more to the club than selling the tickets on matchdays in terms of its price. If you think about it, a season ticket sold is a drop in revenue because of free matches. Don’t get me wrong, season tickets are important from a cashflow position but that’s all.

    BTW don’t even try to argue that the seats won’t be sold if they aren’t season tickets. You can’t prove it; you have no way of ever proving it. Misinformation flows freely about sellouts and red members. I’ve read of a few matches where there were reportedly tickets available via the club, only to be told by others that there are none on the website. So I’m not saying either is true, it varies too often for a definitive answer.

    Fans in the stadium are of less relevance to sponsors, they are directed at global television audiences which is how you can tell which countries are taking matches live based on the pitchside hoardings. George in Blackburn is arguably more important to sponsors through watching at home on television. They get more audience coverage on TV than in the ground.

    As time goes by matchday revenue is decreasing in its proportion of revenues overall. Eventually, it will fall to around 30%. That is reasonable as it indicates that commercial revenues, eg sponsorships, are performing well.

    A final thought. Arguably every Nigerian fan is more important to the club and its sponsors than the English fans. There are more them and the market is relatively untapped, commercially.

    The point I’m making is this. You want to make yourself seem more important to the club by self-aggrandisement. But the reality is this: you are no more important to the club than I. And I am no more important to the club than Big Brovar.

  131. George,
    I wasn’t worried by TH14’s departure. He was already a shadow of his former self by then. I don’t quite remember what I thought about our chances before the season started, it didn’t take me long to realize that team was something special.

  132. George – “Andy, Cesc was becoming a liability.He had gone before the last season started.How long are you going to keep crying about his fee?

    But that is not true. People like to state that as fact to make out we did the right thing by selling him, but it is far from the truth.

    Even though he wanted to leave the bloke obviously loves the club, and more importantly his 9 goals and 17 assists in his final season which was hampered by injury really is nothing to be sniffed at.

  133. I agree with Big Al @11:35.
    Za Earth is beeeeeeeeg I tell ya
    Zere are gems everyvhere..everywhere I tell ya

  134. Henristic | February 21, 2012 at 11:31 am

    what i meant was i dont see the point youre trying to make about me contradicting myself…..i insist..both my messages you quoted are saying the same thing.

    that our team managed to show ability that they could win it even wihtout our key players at their peak years demonstrates that the work at the academies and scouting was correct.

    but as we all saw ..as talented and as balanced as they were..they still lacked the fight to beat the refs ( middleboro, birmngham, liverpool champions league, manure at o.t etc )

    you remember that ref who saw nothing when hleb walzed through 6 liverppol players and was pulled back by kuyt before making his shot ?

    do you remember us holding the qualification in our hands and an experienced kolo toure making penalty on babel ? …….

  135. Can you name me the players who have been sold for more than their technical or experience value would suggest, because they had ‘character’?

  136. Yeah, sorry AA, I meant Nasri when I spoke of the £200k per week.

  137. Aman | February 21, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Where is it that i am wrong? i am man enough to admit that i can get some things wrong, and when i do, i will state that i have the wrong perspective.

  138. Hunter – “i know it hurts sentimentally but thats the point…when your juggling with numbers and stadiums and financial restrictions there is no sentiment….only what the finances dictate

    You are contradicting youself.

    Only a few minutes ago you were saying that Arsne let Cesc go because he is such a nice bloke. The finances did not dictate that transfer did they?

  139. Right so my ticketing idea was shit – noted! LOL

  140. So thats completely contrary to to what you said earlier with regards to why are manager let cesc go and be with his friends and family in barca at a cheap rate.

    lol what are you talking about silly boy ..are you suggesting that arsenal did not need cesc;s 40 million ?

    lol…..

    if they hadnt listened to wenger they wouldnt get the 40 million plus theyd have an unhappy players in the club who happend to wear the armband…..

    now what should i bother about? cesc;s sentiments?the fans sentiments? or the hot 40 million coming in ?

    i will take the 40 million and fuck you fabregas and barca ! thank you for helping me repay my stadium with a player i poached from you for 450k … 🙂 hehehe .

  141. Drew – “GA – dont get me wrong, I too do think Barca took the piss with what they offered but Cesc said he wanted to go and to go there only. What do you do then? Keep an unhappy player or take the millions on offer?

    For me, we should have stuck to our guns and whatever our valuation of him was. If the transfer had not worked out (due to Barca remember, not us) I am sure Cesc would have got his head down and been professional. Moderic at the Spuds seems to be doing OK. And only the season before that many thought that Cesc had wanted to leave; he still produced during the season. He does not stike me as the type who would throw a hissy fit and refuse to play or anything like that.

  142. Our hands had been burned by Flamini, who was a decent squad player but didn’t look like he was developing much until he was in his last season. After that I’m sure the players’ agents knew that the club didn’t want to see that happening again.

    And it would have been much worse in terms of squad continuity, and more costly to gamble on transfers, AA. Even the best-researched transfers can go wrong. When that happens you have no choice by to roll the dice again. It clearly was not an option for us at the time.

  143. Only a few minutes ago you were saying that Arsne let Cesc go because he is such a nice bloke. The finances did not dictate that transfer did they?

    Arsene is a nice guy but also a pragmatist….sure he is sick to death he loses a player..but 40 million is still 40 million…..lol…. and dont you worry..wenger will find other cescs too.

    id otn see how i contradict myself as you claim….more like you cant make the sepration or the considerations when thinking about such sensitive subjects.

    the boy wanted out…wenger could be cruel and say no…or say yes ( being nice) while also being pragmatic ( 40 million for the club).

  144. Hunter – “lol what are you talking about silly boy ..are you suggesting that arsenal did not need cesc;s 40 million ?

    And you only think Cesc was worth 40M (£35M) in todays market?

    lol (as I believe you say)

  145. *Last post was a correction to 11.31 comment.

    Hunter,
    You were contradicting yourself. You said we’ve never been good enough (in last 6-7years), then claimed you didn’t. No matter.

    “but as we all saw ..as talented and as balanced as they were..they still lacked the fight to beat the refs ( middleboro, birmngham, liverpool champions league, manure at o.t etc )”

    What you don’t seem to understand is that the ability to beat ref’s is not something you can buy. Man City or Real Madrid are no more likely to beat refs just because they are expensively assembled. Aguero, Yaya, aren’t expensive because they have grit. They cost money because of talent and experience, both are qualities which the 07/08 team could boast of.

  146. Yogi’s Warrior | February 21, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Looks like he left for the money to a lot of people, and i too have the belief that he left for the cash. but that said, we have been diluting this team over a period of time in the process making profits whilst strengthening some of our opponents.
    if and when you are winning, it is going to be easier to hang onto your players and easier to attract players. the allure of a team like City apart from the wages is the fact that they are building a team with some fantastic players and over time as chemistry becomes better, they are well placed to dominate, and that appeals to some players.

    To some, the choice of joining the best team in the world appeals more to them than money. Both Cesc and Sanchez joined Barcelona, Cesc took a wage cut while Sanchez turned down City’s advances. What players are we likely to bring in when we lose a first team player or two every year or three as we did this year and replace them each year with a player that gets to the level they were at in a season or two while we continue to sell even as they develop?

  147. Good point Yogi. Nigerians really do spend heavily on supporting Arsenal. I was home for the xmas holidays and was surprised at how much arsenal merchandize was floating about, much of it original.

  148. Cesc wasn’t really the same player in his last season though was he? Plus I am convinced that the club had thought Na$ri would stay and be the new Cesc. We got screwed on that too!!

    Has everyone seen the video of Na$ri being slaughtered in his car by a load of Scoucers?? If not here it is http://blip.tv/arsenalfc/samir-nasri-gets-ripped-on-by-liverpool-fans-after-city-game-5879854

  149. whats best for the club andy …keep an unhappy fabregas so that the babies in the stands are under the illusion that we are keeping our best players (lol) or make 40 million out of a player that cost us only 450k …no matter the sentiments involved…..

    thats what i mean by the finances dictating our moves….we all would have liked to keep cesc….but he won the world cup with xavi iniesta and all his mates and then he returned to an arsenal where the board is interested in repaying the stadium rather than strengthening first team…:)

    shoudl wenger or arsenal boarddestroy cesc;s future because of the feelings of arsenal fans ? …please…..

    did you see the smile on the boy ;s face when he played for them first time…….

    dont blame cesc for the commitment ashley cole should have shown……….. 😉

  150. And you only think Cesc was worth 40M (£35M) in todays market?

    i didnt talk about his worth …only the offer we had in front of us..

    his worth is triple that easily.

  151. I feel Cesc betrayed us.
    Nasri was only ever an employee.
    Scoucers should have been driven off the road by young Samri.He could afford the insurance hike

  152. OneOfUs | February 21, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Flamini was a one off situation, and he royally messed us up by promising to sign then going back on his word. but is that any excuse to get it as wrong as we have done when it comes to wages? We now have a big number of players that we cannot seem to get rid off and have not delivered on potential.

    Money down the drain is one thing, and these players will get off the system if they are sold or their contracts run out. but the time and opportunity that passed is something we will never recover. For the time we extended contracts we kept losing our best players because most did not think we had the ambition and have moved to teams that are better placed to win something than we are.

    we never needed a sugar daddy, just better resource placement.

  153. What you don’t seem to understand is that the ability to beat ref’s is not something you can buy. Man City or Real Madrid are no more likely to beat refs just because they are expensively assembled. Aguero, Yaya, aren’t expensive because they have grit. They cost money because of talent and experience, both are qualities which the 07/08 team could boast of.

    what? we had yaya toures and agueros in the 07 team ? lol…..like who?

    the ability to beat refs comes from character…….fletcher and rio and rooney are not more talented than our players ..but they do have the character unfortunately. vieira had it too and it transmitted to the rest.

    you need a siege mentality to have that character…vieira could proiduce that mentality because dont forget arsenal was the french players ithaca. they were like a colony and were determined to shut mouths!.

  154. Hunter – “whats best for the club andy …keep an unhappy fabregas so that the babies in the stands are under the illusion that we are keeping our best players (lol)

    Crazy as it sounds, I do believe that keeping our best players is the best way forward for the club. Even more so when we are talking about one of the top 3 midfielders in world football. As I said earlier, I am pretty sure he would have still given 100% for the club.

    If Barca came in with an offer that we could not turn down, then fine. But they didn’t. Not even close. He was under contract (which was signed not that long ago).

    What are you on about “destroy Cesc’s future”? Such a biazzre logic that you use. I don’t think anybody doubted that Cesc would go there at some point. I even think lots of Arsenal fans would be happy for him if the move had been complted under our terms. But the timing was wrong and the fee was very wrong. Yet the ball was in our court.

  155. Cesc didnt betray us, he gave eight years of fantastic service and then went to boyhood club.

    He always stated that he would return home.

    But hes gone so lets just move on!

  156. Acryllic @11:40..”Where is it that i am wrong? i am man enough to admit that i can get some things wrong, and when i do, i will state that i have the wrong perspective”.

    ACLF is not a court of law man.
    Its not a wrong or right thing here. Share your views, enjoy others take on things and enjoy the Arsenal adventure.

    Remember football is a game that sometimes ends in a draw.
    This is a major part of its charm.
    Its not the biggest sport on the planet because someone has to win always.

    I know we are all knee deep in a recession but even with all this modern communication one must learn to chill out & savour life.

    Zats all.

  157. Hunter – “And you only think Cesc was worth 40M (£35M) in todays market?

    i didnt talk about his worth …only the offer we had in front of us..

    his worth is triple that easily.

    Which is pretty much my point. We should have just refused their offer.

  158. Hunter – “the ability to beat refs comes from character…….fletcher and rio and rooney are not more talented than our players ..but they do have the character unfortunately. vieira had it too and it transmitted to the rest.

    you need a siege mentality to have that character…vieira could proiduce that mentality because dont forget arsenal was the french players ithaca. they were like a colony and were determined to shut mouths!.

    Well here is somthing we do agree on and where I think we have been seriously lacking for a while. But whisper it, Arsne assesmbed this side so he too needs to take some measure of resposibility for that.

  159. pedantic george | February 21, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Arsenal betrayed Cesc, not the other way around. He was a world class player that gave us 8 years and in that time he saw better players constantly leave and replaced by players not quite at their level. we were always rebuilding and not doing so wisely, he got fed up and left to play on a team that actually wanted to win stuff.

  160. Jabba's Delights

    Yogi

    Everything that you say is correct apart from the fact that in our CURRENT situation season tickets are what is driving us.

    You allude to 30% but that isnt the case yet and nor will it be if we continue to struggle on the field and we continue to have empty seats………it damages the product.

    Our secondary sponsers evolve around gaming companies, citroen and lager companies unless i’m badly mistaken george being the middle aged country fellow that he is doesnt fit the target market for allot of these products. The clubs arent in partnership with us for a fan like that nor are they there for nigerian fans yet. Our overseas tv right are negotiated collectively so what we are trying to do with our partners is project our club to that target audience. there may well be 150 million nigerian fans but the type of products who can be sold through advertising to them is significantly less appealing to what type of products a british fan not only interestd in but capable of buying. This may change but not for a good few years yet

    Until we get to start negotiating our own overseas rights and launch our ownn platform to shwo live games (the real reason why kroenke wants us) we are still incredibly dependent on getting those fans through the emirates turnstiles.

    Anyone who has ever worked in sales knows that 99 times out of 100 you take money up front over giving someone the chance to buy as they go along. This is even more important for a club which continually is getting worse in terms of on field production. If the club had allowed everyone to buy there tickets over the course of the season the club would be up shit creek tragic . The product on the pitch is bad and the club is delighted that 40,000 people bought there tickets nearlly a year ago

  161. Aman | February 21, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    maybe you ought to look at your initial comment that i replied to. beating a retreat when confronted to show cause does you absolutely no favours.

  162. AA – I think that is going a bit too far, although I do think we did not make hte most of an extraordinary player. If we had put better players around him I am certain we would have been much more succesful.

  163. Which is pretty much my point. We should have just refused their offer.

    and keep an unhappy player and say no to 40 million?

    lol if arsenal didnt need the money then fine but ..sadly that aint the case….

    Well here is somthing we do agree on and where I think we have been seriously lacking for a while. But whisper it, Arsne assesmbed this side so he too needs to take some measure of resposibility for that.

    i can see yourpoint my friend…can yu see mine ……it aint wenger;s decission whether the club purchases ready and established or young and up and coming.

    vieira was not unknown , neither overmars, nor henry, nor petit, nor wiltord neither kanu neither cambell……

    the board was folllowing a different policy back then..they were investing in reaqdy players to break manure;s monopoly…

    after a while of doing that they chose to expand and build foundations therefore the policy changed my friend !

  164. See, there u go again AAA:
    “Arsenal betrayed Cesc????”

    like Arsenal’s betraying its fans eh?

  165. Screw you lot – my ticketing idea was brilliant! 😉

  166. Yes it was brilliant, Drew10. We have discussed the same idea on here several times over the last couple of years.

  167. Well what would be the point in developing a player for three or four years and then letting him go? Even Denilson and Bendtner at that stage in their careers would have commanded better wages at other clubs had they opted to leave on free transfers, as the amount saved on fees would have gone to their wages.

    Here’s the thing – we decided to develop our own talent around 2005. But we didn’t know at the time that we were about to be doing it during a period when it would be more difficult to make it successful than ever. Wages on average have more than doubled since 2003. Football has gone mental since we moved, and we were gambling on it staying sane.

    If you have players who are getting regular CL football, then they’re going to expect to be paid as such. Once we started we couldn’t stop, and two or three mistakes have threatened the lot.

    We have to stick with it now, though – for the next three years at least. Compensation fees help us avoid risking young players for free, so we can afford to be a bit more aggressive in wage negotiations.

  168. AAA…beating a retreat u say?

    Not at all dude.
    I repeat ACLF is not a court of law.
    I know why I support Arsenal
    Do you?

  169. hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 11:59 am

    what? we had yaya toures and agueros in the 07 team ? lol…..like who?

    where did I say we had those people in the team? In any case we did have very experienced players like Gallas, Toure, Rosicky, and Gilberto, reasonably experienced and talented players like Hleb, Flamini, Adebayor, Eduardo, and young talents like Cesc, Walcott, etc. More importantly, these guys clicked and we were playing some of the best football we’ve ever done under wenger. I’d say, yeah, that team compares quite favourably with the current City team (leaving aside the character issue)

    the ability to beat refs comes from character…….fletcher and rio and rooney are not more talented than our players ..but they do have the character unfortunately. vieira had it too and it transmitted to the rest.
    you need a siege mentality to have that character…vieira could proiduce that mentality because dont forget arsenal was the french players ithaca. they were like a colony and were determined to shut mouths!.

    So you agree the reason we didn’t have character had nothing to do with how much money we have? Good. You’re finally seeing my point, although this contradicts a lot of what you’ve been saying

  170. goonerandy | February 21, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Aman | February 21, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Good players make people around them better, but two or three world class players in a team will not make the team a world beater unless they have some players that accentuate their play. How many players could lift their game when Cesc was struggling? How many will list their game today if RVP isnt playing well?

    There is a reason as to why good players leave teams to play with better players in other teams. as a player, i would feel betrayed if a team had the means but not the will, which is what Arsenal has been doing.

  171. Drew – It was. 🙂

    Hunter – “lol if arsenal didnt need the money then fine but ..sadly that aint the case….

    Really? I dont think that was the case at all.

    And I also don’t think the board dictate transfer policy. Arsene himself has said many times that one of the main reasons he loves the club is how much freedom he has and 100% authority on all footballing matters. I am not saying that everythnig is Arsne’s fault, far from it. But please don’t paint him as some victim in all this.

    Anyway, that was my last thought on the matter. We have dragged this out for long enough and will have to agree to disagree on some points.

  172. Jabba's Delights

    Hunter

    ”i can see yourpoint my friend…can yu see mine ……it aint wenger;s decission whether the club purchases ready and established or young and up and coming.

    vieira was not unknown , neither overmars, nor henry, nor petit, nor wiltord neither kanu neither cambell……

    the board was folllowing a different policy back then..they were investing in reaqdy players to break manure;s monopoly…

    after a while of doing that they chose to expand and build foundations therefore the policy changed my friend !”

    Your right and now the policy has changed again to a mixture of the two. Project youth is finished the club has changed its emthasis slightly. Yes they will buy qulaity talented youngesters but that will be augmented with more experienced players as well. Look at our last 4 transfer windows work

    Squilaci, Chamack, Kosciellny, Gervinho, arteta, mertasacker, jenkinson, park, AOC, santos, campbell

    seems to me there has been a change in emthasis?

  173. GA, Arsenal needs the money.

  174. Aman | February 21, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    I have been supporting Arsenal pre Wenger, from a time when we were not winning. i support the team, doesnt mean i have to be a “yes man” and agree with all it does. That is what a lot of people seem to think is the benchmark of what it takes to be a good fan.

  175. AAA: ” i would feel betrayed if a team had the means but not the will, which is what Arsenal has been doing”.

    Here lies the thin line.
    The means but not the will.

    And why do you think they do AAA?

  176. ..sorry, and why do you think they don’t AAA?

  177. where did I say we had those people in the team? In any case we did have very experienced players like Gallas, Toure, Rosicky, and Gilberto, reasonably experienced and talented players like Hleb, Flamini, Adebayor, Eduardo, and young talents like Cesc, Walcott, etc. More importantly, these guys clicked and we were playing some of the best football we’ve ever done under wenger. I’d say, yeah, that team compares quite favourably with the current City team (leaving aside the character issue)

    GALLAS? lol u mean the poser psychopath who wanted to boast mohican in his thirties ? yes very serious person….lol…

    toure ? fine player and fine servant of the club….a mistake from arsene to chose gallas over the ivorian.

    hleb …i told you ..the minute he saw arsenal not being respected by refs he bailled out.

    adebayor? lol ……haha …only good cause our passers feeded him with 100 assists.

    sure they clicked..but that click wasnt sustainable mate, and it proved so. thats all im saying…

  178. OOU – Really? To the extent of selling our best player on the cheap? Take into account we were already selling Clichy and Nasri. Hell, it would have been better than using some of the transfer budget to offset anything needed to keep Cesc.

    Any why do we need the money? The financing of the stadium does not rely on player sales, and if it does the club as a whole seem to have a very didgy business model.

  179. Apart from Wiltord, all the players you listed Jabba were picked up cheaply, either because of contract, injury, poor form or unseen potential. Henry had a rubbish time in Juventus, Overmars was coming back from injury after an injury in 1995(?), Kanu had the heart thing, Petit was a defender, Vieira was un-used because of Serie A’s rule on foreigners. Had they been on contracts and appreciated by their clubs they would have cost a hell of a lot in transfers, and we wouldn’t sure as hell not have bothered.

  180. – n’t

  181. And I also don’t think the board dictate transfer policy. Arsene himself has said many times that one of the main reasons he loves the club is how much freedom he has and 100% authority on all footballing matters. I am not saying that everythnig is Arsne’s fault, far from it. But please don’t paint him as some victim in all this.

    who talked about victims ? lol

    im talking about policy.

    obviosuly when you built stadiums your policy changes

    the decission to change the clubs policy….who took it? wenger alone? didnt they all agree? didnt they all commit to it? is it a case of wenger just stepping in there and telling them ” this is how its done, i am the lord and this club is mine i decide” …. please…..

  182. OOU,

    If we needed the money, why didn’t we hold out for more then? Why sell cheap (relatively)? Were we that desperate?

  183. Your right and now the policy has changed again to a mixture of the two. Project youth is finished the club has changed its emthasis slightly.

    lol who told you the policy has changed?

    i dont see anything like that yet ……….

  184. Frank, where was I during those discussions?

  185. Aman,

    They give contract extensions and raises to players in the hope that they will come good, a good number have not. Do you need names of players that have been here for several years but not lived up to potential? Almunia, Senderos, Diaby, Djourou, Bendtner, Walcott, are all players we had in our 2005 – 2006 squad. Denilson, Armand Traore, Carlos Vela Aaron Ramsey……………how many of these have lived up to their potential?

    Add that to the fact that we were willing to waste time with the likes of Silvestre, Sol Campbell, and Amauri Bischoff, that we would not spend after we sold Toure and Adebayor. we could have spent on a striker, but no, we waited for a free transfer Chamakh while playing Arshavin as center forward. we could have bought a defender, but no, we chose to go with Silvestre who everyone knew was past it into the champions league.

    We could have bought a keeper, but we endured three years of Almunia………….the financial means was there, but we spent money coming in from transfers in players that are yet to deliver to date.

  186. Jabba's Delights

    oos

    I made not reference to any of those players

  187. Drew10 (11.23 am) & YW, earlier – yes, agree with both of you re: some sort of reallocation of unused tickets. But I do think, on reflection, it has to be voluntary rather than enforced.

    I’ll repeat roughly what I suggested here a few weeks ago (I’m certain I’m not the first to think of this, btw).

    Essentially, a season ticket holder should be able to text the club with their season ticket number and the word “free” so that the club can let in pre-registered but otherwise ticket-less fans on the day. Personally, I think a nominal sum (£5) should be charged with those proceeds going to the club’s nominated charity. At the tennis tournament at Wimbledon they do something similar (re-sold day ticket funds going to charity) and it works brilliantly, albeit only for two weeks of every year.

    Again, speaking only for myself, I have paid for my season ticket and am fortunate enough to be able to afford to do so every year. I’d be delighted if on those odd occasions where circumstances have caused me to miss a game I could rest easy knowing that someone less fortunate than myself (unemployed, pocket-money funded teenager, whoever) could get in on my ticket at very low cost to themselves.

    Not only would the club benefit from the excellent PR this would generate, but the extra bums on seats, the improvement to the atmosphere during games and a greater chance of recovering some otherwise lost spend in the club shops could only be to the good and would represent a zero-cost gain overall, one of those rare win:win initiatives (scuze the pseudo-business cliches).

    After I wrote a version of the above, previously, someone suggested that a similar system is already in place in either Barcelona or Real Madrid (soz, can’t quite recall which).

    One of the great strengths of the idea, as I see it, is that the Doomers & Gloomers would be unlikely to be bothered to take advantage of the scheme as they will surely be too busy spreading their negativity and feeling sorry for themselves.

    And as a few today are homing in on certain (largely fictional) fiscal metrics, let me invent one of my own.

    Voluntary ticket re-allocation would significantly improve the key “Proper Fan v Fake Fan Ratios” in favour of the real supporters.

    To all our benefit.

    ***

    [Aman – cheers mate.]

  188. I have no idea, Drew10. Where were you?

  189. Ah, I see the quote-marks now. Sorry, Jabba.

  190. Nice work Yogi.

    Highlights the two most salient points. The pervading view that there are two polarised camps out there and ignores completely the silent majority between the most vocalised arguments. That is the most damaging.

    And the fact that no matter what we think we know, and how we would like to change things, we don’t ultimately have a say in what happens. Not even a veto of not attending. There are plenty out there who would take our place if we opted to cut our nose off to spite our face.

  191. Jabba's Delights

    hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    your right when you build a stadium your policy changes.

    When you pay off a signifcant chunk of the stadium the policy chnages

    When you have no more liabilities comiong out of the property market you policy changes.

    Its not one running policy after we decided to build the stadium. times change plans get pulled around. Our club says the stadium isnt a big hinderance on us now.

    Take away that 16m interest payment a year and this is what the club currently generates. give arsene that 16m thats the only major difference currently.

    Utd are payign 80m in interest per year and it wasnt even their choice to do it.

  192. We could have bought a keeper, but we endured three years of Almunia………….the financial means was there, but we spent money coming in from transfers in players that are yet to deliver to date.

    oh really … a keeper better than what almunia can offer costs above 15 million….

    wenger tried to get czech…but ranieri used romans millions and stole him from us

    ajax was asking 15m + for stekelenburg and liverpool 25+ for reina

    if youre gonna change almunia you do it for a reina type or above…not for a schwartzer.

    since 15 and 25 are ridiculous amounts i would rather stick with almunia until the youngsters develop. dont forget that i can wait. .my priority is to build players/teams and repay the stadium. 😉

  193. hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    your right when you build a stadium your policy changes.

    no shit….did you need 7 years of overachievement to realise it ?

  194. Hunter,

    “GALLAS? lol u mean the poser psychopath who wanted to boast mohican in his thirties ? yes very serious person….lol…”
    What has that got to do with anything? Wenger got him and made him captain, yes, even with the mohican in his 30s.

    toure ? fine player and fine servant of the club….a mistake from arsene to chose gallas over the ivorian.

    hleb …i told you ..the minute he saw arsenal not being respected by refs he bailled out.
    So? How do you know Silva or whoeverelse is made of sterner stuff? And if they are, is it reflected in their transfer fee?

    adebayor? lol ……haha …only good cause our passers feeded him with 100 assists.
    So what? That’s what the passers are there for?

    You’re missing the point that these players are as talented and experienced as a title winning team would require. We didn’t need to spend more than we had in 07/08 to win the title, because character is not for sale. We could have the most expensive team in the world and still come up short in terms of character.

    sure they clicked..but that click wasnt sustainable mate, and it proved so. thats all im saying…

    That’s not all what you’re saying though, is it? We didn;t win in 07/08 because of character, bad ref calls, bad luck, etc. None of these things have anything to do with what how much Wenger has to spend. In short, your argument that we as a club never planned to compete for titles is bollocks. We clearly have.

  195. Hunter – “is it a case of wenger just stepping in there and telling them ” this is how its done, i am the lord and this club is mine i decide” …. please…..”

    Which nobody has said, but do carry on.

  196. Jabba's Delights

    Hunter

    You all over the place. It doesnt cost 15m to better almunia. Wengers deciosn directly cost us points last year. He only stumbled into scezney as well due to other injuries scezesny was angling to leave.

  197. Our club says the stadium isnt a big hinderance on us now.

    well yes ….but only after the great sacrifices they went through the past 6-7 years.

    it is that sacrifice that can enable them NOW to say that the stadium debt aint hindering them.

    if they had spent money on stekelenburgs and whatever the president of lyon was asking for his players then arsenal would not have been able to say after 7 years “we only owe 135m” ……..

    😉

  198. Jabba's Delights

    hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Im not sure what your smoking over there on the east coast mate but youve completely lost the plot.

    your now quoting your own comments and talking to yourself. It was you who said that

  199. OneOfUs | February 21, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    back then, Arsene would spend money on a player if he thought he was worth it. Today, we spend money on a lot of players whose contracts are running down or are in teams that have financial issues, or in the case of Santos, a team in a match fixing probe that is looking to cut some wage.
    Why is it that we tracked Chamakh for three years and made a bid in the last year of his contract? then decided that wasting a season was worth not buying a striker?
    We have been tracking Hazard for three years, over that time, he has kept getting better and better. What were we waiting for? His contract to run down?

    Jenkinson, Mertasacker, Arteta, Gervinho, Andre Santos, were all players that came in because their teams were looking to sell. the one player whom i dont think was on an expiring contract was AOC. and it has been like that for ages.

    players like Hleb and Rosicky did not come cheap, neither did Reyes, Richard Wright, Giovanni Van bronkhost, Edu, Jeffers, Wiltord, Lauren, Henry, Overmars, or Bergkamp. We were paying some good money for players at the time.

  200. hunter,
    I go on to contend that Wenger himself believes that he has built title winning teams in the last 6-7 years. If he didn’t, then he would have spent more, because we’ve had more available.

  201. Jabba's Delights

    hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    and there goes your entire argument.

    We told you that the club did brilliantly up until around 2008-9 or so. Now as the climate has changed due to our own hard work the club must adapt. Yourve just admited that our hard work has put us in a position to be more competative but in reality we’ve become less competative………….thank you now please shhhhh for enternity

  202. AA I think you should put that in an official letter and send it to Arsenal with all of our backings. That is a brilliant idea and certainly would allow those less able to get in to see our great club like we used to.

    Not only would it raise money for charity but also any money spent on programmes or in the shops would increase revenues more than empty seats.

    Maybe start a petition that we can all sigh then present it to the club!

  203. Was it Merlot who showed yesterday, factually, that Arsenal is in the midst of its most successful era in 110 years? It’s the most important post of the week. Now, if every other post was put plainly in that context, they take on a different meaning a lot of the time.

    It’s a funny club Arsenal, it really is. Trophystically, it is not a giant, compared with the Man United era of late or Liverpool 80s. It’s produced some sparkling and memorable moments in English football in between long periods of pasture. It’s never been out of top flight, I don’t think. It has some amazing records, players and peak moments. But what makes it ‘a big club’?

    The older Londoners or historians would need to try and answer that. My simplistic view is that whichever way you turn, if you talk about the football in England, Europe since about 1995, and recently the staggering rise of the EPL you cannot tell that story without an account of Arsenal, annoyingly for some it is always in the photo.

    I’ve said it before: the global recognition of Arsenal is recent and exponential. It exploded within the early Wenger phase, on the back of performance and some players, not victories and trophies per se.

    I don’t have a global picture, but I’m pretty sure I’m right that Chelsea, Tottenham, Everton, Sunderland, Newcastle, City, Fulham, QPR of old and so forth have fairly insignificant global reach. Only three English teams have managed this status in 30 years: Liverpool, United and Arsenal, the latecomer, but ahead of Liverpool now.

    So Arsenal is in reality a big club, a very big club. But relatively not a particularly successful club, except in the current era, and now 7 seasons trophyless is on the cards. So what keeps it big?

    It’s debatable. It will lose some ground if it stays trophyless for too long. But somehow, and I venture a wild opinion (considering perhaps 2 million African Arsenal supporters), it has loyalty and emotional attachment that is hard, but easy, but hard to fathom.

    I think Wenger was always after the big ‘making history’ stakes, and he did a bit of that earlier, a tasty morsel or two. He’s raised expectations to unprecedented levels, but will we remain the team on the verge of defining a football era, whatever that means? I carry a grudging respect for Liverpool and United, because they have been there, big time. We’ve had some delicious snacks, and we want the main course now. Not so? Isn’t that what’s really going on with fans?

    Funny thing is, I can’t but think Arsene looks to cook it, and is trying to do so, mainly by thinking about the recipe for long term success. From that perspective the loss of Cesc was jarring. We are over it emotionally but the team is effectively in transition. The loss of Jack and Diaby, from Wenger’s standpoint, must be bitter broth because those two – I think he thought – we were the engine.

  204. You all over the place. It doesnt cost 15m to better almunia.

    yes it does……if im gonna change almunia i will do it for something world class (buffon)…not another stop gap mediocrity(schwartzer, friedel etc)

    and since i cant bid for world class keepers i will scout them, bring them in, develop and who knows….maybe chesney develops into our own version of a buffon…why not? after all i have the most qualified manager for these jobs. 😉

    it is the policy of recruiting young and up and coming that brings chain reactions to the rest of decissions wenger has to make.

    arsenals policy of recruiting young is a side effect of the decission to become self sustainable in our own stadium.

    it may be the advise of the manager but the approval, endorsement and green light comes from the OWNER (S).

    if i as an owner have a manager who can develop youth and produce fabregas and henrys then i will gladly allow him ten years minimum to build whatever he has in mind, especially when i have already committed the club in a 450 million investement and cant compete with chelsea city or united for the world class winners.

  205. ZimPaul | February 21, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Was it Merlot who showed yesterday, factually, that Arsenal is in the midst of its most successful era in 110 years? It’s the most important post of the week.

    😉

  206. hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Reina is on record as saying that Arsenal made a 20 million pound move that was blocked by their owners at the time. We had the money.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2046871/Pepe-Reina-Liverpool-owners-stopped-joining-Arsenal-20m.html

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/09102011/58/premier-league-reina-liverpool-rejected-20m-arsenal-bid.html

  207. We told you that the club did brilliantly up until around 2008-9 or so.

    so what are you complaing about then …since we did brilliantly up to 09……

    just about the last two years?

    does two years of diffiuclties cause all this outrage on you wanting to sack the manager , get rid of our plans and send all the players as far away as possible?

    for two years ? …..

    please…….

    its the collective memories of getting so close yet so far

    however you shoudl find strength in the fact that we do reach the source we just dont drink water from the fountain yet…but we get there …even with almunia and walcott… 😉

  208. Hunter – “a keeper better than what almunia can offer costs above 15 million….

    Heh.

  209. Jabba's Delights

    Hunter

    The difference between almunia and world class is huge do you not think a good manager would try and better his golakeeping position. Scezesny is a long way from being world class yet but he has the potential and is a big step up on almunia.

    Do you not see from what friedel has done at spurs this year and then look at our case and think, yup we would have won more points last year probably even have won a cup with him

  210. comment awaiting moderation???????

  211. Just read on the official site that AA23, Chamakh, Benayoun and Park will be in the reserve squad for tonight’s game. Carl Jenkinson is also on his way back, I don’t know why but I love that lad!

  212. hunter13 | February 21, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Reina is on record as saying that Arsenal made a 20 million pound move that was blocked by their owners at the time. We had the money.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2046871/Pepe-Reina-Liverpool-owners-stopped-joining-Arsenal-20m.html

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/09102011/58/premier-league-reina-liverpool-rejected-20m-arsenal-bid.html

  213. Jabba's Delights

    Hunter

    its 2-3 years of regression at a time when we should be getting better. This will be the 4th year in a row with a reduced points total. For our plans to succeed we need these commercial contracts and we need to project ourselves to foreign audiences and un saturised markets. this is all not taking place.

    Football is a result driven business and our manager has shown himself to be completely incapable of making the transition to the next stage in the clubs development.

    The manager could have been sacked for failing to improve the defence in the last 3 years after identifying it as a major weakness. Ib fact its gotten worse each year………….thats the type of thing people with responsibility get sacked for in this part of the world.

  214. Jabba

    There is no point in talking to you – you simply don’t listen. But I am going to make you see the light, my boy. I am.

    30% will be the case. New deals on broadcasting are emerging, new revenue streams. With Disney, Google, even Apple reportedly showing interest, Premier League revenues will rise. New sponsors in two years time; 30% is a damn sight closer than you think.

    Deals are collective; the advertising around them is based on the popularity of the product. Arsenal, whether you like it or not, is a global brand. Exploiting the African market commercially is nothing to do with the same products here. The kits will sell, they are the core; after that it is make as much money as you are able to from your entire product range. You don’t understand global product placements if you don’t grasp that Nigerian customers have different tastes and will buy accordingly. They don’t care what you own in your home counties house; it might not be appropriate to their life and culture. And it won’t take long for that revenue to come; why do you think the club is touring there next summer?

    Secondary Sponsors: let’s look at the current list: Indesit. Citroen. Ebel. Thomas Cook. O2. Emirates. Nike. EA Sports. They all want George as a customer and target him as such. Carlsberg want the young and lacking in palatte as customers. They know George wouldn’t touch their lager unless forced to. As for Betsson, they wouldn’t mind as a customer but who knows whether they expect it or not.

    Arsenal don’t want a stadium of season ticket holders – there is less revenue for them in it, not just in ticket prices but retail revenue. Yes, from a cash point of view, they love Season Tickets. But given the choice, a guaranteed sellout every week via normal ticket sales will win every time for the retail sales.

    There are several perceptions you have that are wrong. KSE don’t want to bargain separately; it is bucking the global football trend – even the Spanish are moving toward it, of sorts. The Italians are now collectively bargaining as well. It is not in the best interests of the smaller clubs to agree to it so it isn’t going to happen unless oil money buys up 3/4 of the Premier League, that being the voting total needed to effect any contractual change in this instance.

    I don’t underestimate or denigrate Season Ticket Holders. You do, however, severely over-estimate their importance to the club, financially.

  215. Interesting ‘holic, that John Cross admitted on Twitter earlier that he thinks the silent majority still support Wenger. Which sort of undermined his piece in the paper.

    I’m not sure we’d ever agree on whose nose should be cut off but we could generally agree it would be done out of spite!

  216. lager, citroens and computer games…why would that not appeal to middle aged country bumpkin pedantic George Rodger from blackburn?…

    I bet he loves nothing better then coming home from work in his xsara plonking his arse in front of championship manager and getting pissed on tins of carling black label!!

  217. Yogi’s Warrior | February 21, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Hence the reason there are calls for him to spend some cash rather than calls for him to get sacked.

  218. You all over the place.

    look who is talking 🙂

    lol not the place ….

    im all over people of your way of thinking…..damn right ….i will hunt you all down …. lol .. ;p j/k…..or maybe not…. hehehe…

    unappreciative and ungrateful people dont deserve to be fans of this team.

    check merlots; post please….and if you still have complaints then i guess there is no point.

    this club has never had it better …yet you allow the bought success of our rivals ( who cant sustain it by the way) to cloud your judgement and as a result you attack the most important figurehead in our history the last 80 years…. calling him useless, directionless and past it and a has been…..such disrespectful behaviour belongs to a spud ..not a gunner!

    if only we could discover the elixir of immortality and let him get on with what he knows to do best…adding class and trophies to our club with his wengerball ! amen.

  219. drew10 | February 21, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    and why on earth would i want to do that? people that want to protest can do so if they want, those that want to write petitions can do so if they want……….i wont waste my time or energy on either

  220. Hunter, every team that buys players to better itself buys the title. we did it, United have been doing it while there others that do it beyond what they make. its a matter of extent.

  221. ” …yet you allow the bought success of our rivals ( who cant sustain it by the way) to cloud your judgement and as a result you attack the most important figurehead in our history the last 80 years…. calling him useless, directionless and past it and a has been…..such disrespectful behaviour belongs to a spud ..not a gunner

    Not just a spud mate, a very daft spud at that.

    May the force remain strong with you Hunter 13.
    In time your “rougher” edges will be further finessed by the sages of ACLF
    Do take in Yogi’s words….

    To reiterate, today
    I stand with Monsieur Hunter XIII

  222. Just read from the AST bit last night that Djourou’s extension now has him on £50K per week. Our 4th choice CB on £50K per week. Jeez.

  223. Andy (throughout the day, and with considerable patience),

    I think you know that I am on the same page as you re the Fab sale. We got royally screwed, a fact Barcelona have taken no small pleasure in smearing in our faces since. It seems as though Wenger let his humanity, and his affection for the player as a person, influence his decision-making. The club did not want to sell and it was admitted that it was Wenger himself who pushed for the sale to happen. I find that remarkable – in a way it’s almost a dereliction of duty.
    Thoroughly decent of him undoubtedly, but his duty is to ‘what’s best for the club’ and the player was under a very well-paid, long-term contract. Yes the player desperately wanted to leave but no player should be allowed to hold the club to ransom – effectively determining a reduced transfer fee.
    I don’t mind that we sold Fabregas but anything less than £50M was rape – Barcelona have admitted this and had have a jolly good laugh in the process. I am amazed we buckled to their demands and that some seem to believe we had absolutely no choice in the matter.
    I have moved on since and I am certainly not suggesting Wenger should be pilloried for this but it was, IMO a big mistake. We needed to be tougher than that – these are very well paid employees and should be treated as such, in accordance with their contracts and always (within reason) seeking maximum benefit for the club – financially or otherwise.
    And before anyone starts on the ‘he was unhappy and you can’t hold a player against their will’ stuff – it holds no water for me. Look at Modric – seems to have gotten over it for now doesn’t he? The sensible argument would have been to point out to Fabregas that The Arsenal had behaved reasonably throughout but that Barcelona, in contrast, were behaving like cunts and that obviously they did not value him as they were not prepared to pay a fair price. If Fabregas wanted to sulk he should have been firmly pointed in which direction to display his dismay.
    Had we done this, explained reasonable terms to Barca and the player and been met with refusal to stump up the cash I’d bet my ass Fabregas would have got on and been a model pro, once the season had started, regardless.

  224. goonerandy | February 21, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Amazing, aint it?

  225. Jonny | February 21, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Agree with everything in there.

  226. Jonny – Agreed 100%. You summerised better than what I have been trying to get across all day.

  227. AW (more fool him) undoubtedly created a rod for his own back by enjoying the spectacular success he engineered on the playing side so early in his AFC career. He then ruined things still further by buggering about building new stadiums and entirely unnecessary training facilities. That they remain to this day utterly state-of-the-art assets adds to the impression that here, clearly, is a man hell bent on showing off.

    Had he only known when to stop?

    But no, he couldn’t help himself and his ideas, techniques and methods all got the better of him and his players, his team and his squad went from strength to strength as the club stole a march on their rivals.

    The significance today of the Invincibles mega-success isn’t so much that they went unbeaten for one season.

    It is more about the extraordinary benchmark they set for all the seasons that have followed.

    Until a future side replicates the feat, that high-water mark will always remain their legacy.

    Their other legacy, ironically, effectively saw the genesis of the Doomer/Gloomer sect who today always point to those earlier Wenger seasons as justification for their current hyper-critical stance. The perception of relative decline, the memory of the benchmark, the sight of the high water line – these are all factors in the feeling of deprivation that currently forms their distressed mindset. It prevents them from looking at the bigger picture (or ANY other picture, for that matter) in a way that simply can not be said of the fans of most other clubs.

    (I say most – to a certain extent it’s possible to see similar anxieties expressed by sections of the Manure support as their equivalent backward looking quarter – the ManYooDoomers, if you like – continue to mourn the end of the decade or so of unchallenged dominance their club once enjoyed).

    I can remember a time not so long ago when AW’s detractors were the fans of other clubs – most notably of the Spuds and Manure variety. Jealousy of his success was their main motivation.

    These days, in my personal experience, whilst some neutral observers have been surprised at the relative lack of new player acquisition by the club, almost all, pretty much without exception are utterly INCREDULOUS at the antics of the anti-Wenger brigade. That there appear to be a number of noisy Gooners all seemingly prepared to back the lunatic notion of losing Wenger is tantamount to club suicide to most observers.

    If it were possible for turkeys to vote for Xmas, it would be the Doomer birds at the front of the queue …

    And losing Arsene Wenger would be THE greatest Xmas gift we could ever hand to our rivals.

    And they would think ALL their Christmases had come at once, too.

    ***

    Drew10 – I suspect the club has too much invested in making the current ticket exchange scheme work to risk clouding the waters with our idea, which as Frank says, has been knocking around for a while now. Seems a shame though; given the technology now at our disposal one could imagine both systems of ticket reallocation running alongside each other quite happily in practice.

  228. Wrong AA I was talking to arsenalandrew. Andrew did you see my earlier response to your post?

  229. drew10 | February 21, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Sorry about that. mistaken identity.

  230. You’re right in the whole context of the article, but if you think in a more simple way for e.g. like living costs of you family/parents, you never know how much they spend weekly or monthly, or how much they spent on different assortiments, beverages, food, clothes etc. So its like asking someone/Arsenal to tell us what they get paid monthly/weekly and how do they manage this salary.

  231. Some of today’s search terms that have brought people to the blog:

    coyles rail complaints department
    theo walcott derisive nickname
    impart knack means

    I sort of understand the last two but rail complaints department?

  232. “When LOVE breaks down…..u run home to momma!”
    or to Barca in Cesc’s case

    When LOVE breaks down LUST takes over
    like Flamini’s for Milan
    like Hleb for Barca

    and after winning shiny things u could get discarded (Hleb +/- Henry)
    U might even have to return the shiny medal won. (Vieira)

    but u console yourself with a padded wallet that keeps shrinking till u start missing the LOVE that helped form u.

    If you were respectful of her, u might get some consolatory time
    and if your LOVE was true maybe even a physical rememberance

    The lesson thats hoped you learnt is that TRUE LOVE is not a love for shiny things, effigies or the many extra zeroes but for a respectful appreciation of the time spent growing under the wings of a very decent man @ a very cultured club…in North London.

    Support the transition
    or be moderate with your frustrations
    Too much ill-will can destroy…
    this thing you “LOVE”.

    RASERS.
    Adieu

  233. So Jonny if only Arsene had had the grasp on reality that you and Andy have ,Cesc would be ruling our midfield on Sunday and scoring goals hand over fist.

    Ok.So when he said “If Fabregas had wanted to stay no amount of money would have gotten him out” he just thought .”oh the lad fancies a change .we will just say fuck it and take whatever”
    And also “just leave it ’till the last minute ’cause I cant be arsed shopping”

  234. arsenalandrew | February 21, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    😉 + 10… with a tone too ….+10′

  235. Andrew @1.51 marvellous stuff sir – all too very true.

    To bastardise Stan Lee “With great success comes great expectation”.

    And now my spiders-sense is tingling.

  236. My understanding is that Barcelona and Madrid – arguably the two best teams in the world – are cooperatives owned by the fans. Like your old building society.

    It is just like the coal mines that were written off by NCB, but had management buyouts which allowed them to continue production and employment for another 20 years. It is the power of the collective. Amazing what we can agree on when we have vested interests and a real place to voice concerns.

    If you focus the minds of the workers (read fans) on the real issues and legitimise their concerns they will find a unified voice.

  237. Jonny | February 21, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    “And before anyone starts on the ‘he was unhappy and you can’t hold a player against their will’ stuff – it holds no water for me. Look at Modric – seems to have gotten over it for now doesn’t he? ”

    Umm.. not trying to be an arse but I didn’t see no Barcelona tail-shitting or whatever you call it, on Modric?? And if I may say so, bluntly.. ah-ah.. Modric ain’t no Cesc!! And Chelski ain’t no Barca!!

  238. George – “Cesc would be ruling our midfield on Sunday

    George, this is Arsenal we are talking about. He would be injured of course 😉

  239. I forgot to put the smiley.. :-).. there ya go!!

  240. Aman | February 21, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    ” the only thing ive ever known
    ever since the day was born
    is to support the red and white
    and im a gooner till i die”

    😉

  241. George – what’s your point mate? I’m not clear.

    Look at Modric – sometimes you have to play hardball in order to win what’s best for the club. In our case it wasn’t even what was best but what was FAIR. We sold SO far beneath market value it’s ludicrous and very unamusing. Given how irreplaceable the player is we had a duty to get as much money as possible to a) offset the damage of losing him and b) provide funds to be able to afford some kind of decent replacement.

    Had we kept him we would be far less likely to be scraping around for 4th place and, if we miss out on that, the decision to acquiesce to Barcelona’s demands will seem even less wise than it does already.

    Yes it went against the wishes of the player but honestly, so fucking what? That was to my eyes entirely Barcelona’s fault, and the situation was their’s and Fabregas’ problem to resolve. NOT ours.

    We had all of the cards and yet we have quite clearly lost the hand.

    Our scummy opponent is laughing at us and counting his chips.

    Tell me how you think it should have been handled? You can’t seriously think we came out of this having gotten the better end of the deal..?

  242. Jonny @ 1-36 – Agree totally

    GA @ 1-36 – That can’t be right, surely?

  243. Albert I don’t know what ‘tail-shitting’ is but, broadly speaking, the situations are comparable – I obviously was not suggesting they are identical or that Fabregas is Modric. Please grant me with some intelligence.
    We had no duty or compunction to sell if we didn’t want to. Same as Spurs – they went one route and we took another. Both players were sulking to an extent and would have been unhappy with the decision to turn their suitors away empty handed.
    It seems to me that in actual fact the largest difference is that we were being offered half of Fabregas’ value but accepted it, whilst Chelsea were offering Spurs about the correct market price for Modric and still dug their heels in. Fair play to them – it has unarguably yielded them much benefit.

  244. Drew10 – yes, I did see your earlier post and I think it’s a good idea but again, whereas you and I maybe think about football, say, a mere 1000 times a day, the good people at Arsenal who work, live and breath the club must surely have thought of these ideas and chances are, there are good reasons for not doing anything further with ticket reallocation, who knows? I’ll drop them a line and let you know what they say.

    YW – rail complaints?! If we start getting complaints about the state of the buffet cars we’ll know what’s happened; we can forward those to the club, ‘n’all.

  245. Jonny – Nailed it.

    JD – Thats what I thought. Hopefully the quotes are inaccurate.

  246. Their stance on Modric was a giant gamble if you ask me. They fluked their way through it though: fair flay – doesn’t mean it should be the way to treat a transfer stand-off. It was very public and was one step short of turning nasty – could just as easily have blown up in their faces. They were lucky that Chelsea didn’t make a campaign of it, for starters.

  247. Bradys right foot

    Yogi’s Warrior | February 21, 2012 at 10:24 am

    I’ve thought about the rights of ST holders and the fact that the exchange system isn’t working. Its a tough one but if fans don’t want to go he game offer them a way out, sell a half season ticket to someone else halfway through the year and reimburse the original ST holder half of his ticket if the original ST holder is agreeable.

  248. sometimes you have to play hardball in order to win what’s best for the club. In our case it wasn’t even what was best but what was FAIR. We sold SO far beneath market value it’s ludicrous and very unamusing. Given how irreplaceable the player is we had a duty to get as much money as possible to a) offset the damage of losing him and b) provide funds to be able to afford some kind of decent replacement.

    i feel the same when i put on the mask of an arsenal fan, but when i discard it and think like a normal human being, cesc was not with us “mentally”……he was far far away…..dreaming of repetitions of the triumph in s.a with his mates.

    and lets not forget the boy gave his all when playing for us…..yes it was a very bad move for arsenal to let their main playmaker go for such ridiculous low fee in comparison to his real worth, but striclty economical…a 40m out of a 450k investment aint bad any way you look at it.

    you think i wasnt angered ? you think i didnt feel humiliated and shat upon and betrayed? of course i did. here was the “son” of wengerball, our ambassador, our skywalker, our little cesc. i thought this is the end. we;re finished. this kid could hold his own in san siro, in bernabeu, old trafford, dele alpi from age 17 and above….. oh cesc…oh cesc…then the 8-2 came around and i wanted to die…thank god it was still summer vacations and the tits and asses in the beach took my mind away …briefly….

    Then i spoke with a friend who happens to be a manager in a different sport to football but still a teamsport…..also arsenal fan…and he was laughing at me… according to him who knows a thing or two about how managers think and work, it was the right move, the team was relying too much on him, the boy wanted to go, the boy was no vieira captain material plus he wasnt english to feel the commitment to arsenal that say an ashley cole should. plus the money. cesc came because of wenger..not because he grew up with tony adams posters in his room. why should he save arsenal? thats the duty of wilshere gibbs walcott frimpong ox etc etc …

  249. ‘railing’ against the ‘complaints department’?

  250. Bradys right foot

    SA Gooner | February 21, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    My understanding is that Barcelona and Madrid – arguably the two best teams in the world – are cooperatives owned by the fans. Like your old building society.

    No the fans own feck all, these two institutions are owned by the banks who don’t care about how much they owe its a marvelous set up.

  251. Jonny | February 21, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    “Tail-shitting”.. heh.. I came up with that word.. not suggesting that you did.. my bad mate.. 🙂

    Onto to more pressing matter’s.. See the thing is Johnny.. we didn’t hold the cards as we’d like to think that we did.. Being a player myself, albeit in a small, unheard of etc etc.. it’s always hard when your best player seeks for greener pasture’s.. the team pschology dwells on it.. As much as we would like to have kept our hold on one of our best player, if his heart is not in it.. Then what do you do?? And I believe the answer – you already know. 🙂

  252. The only person that cannot be criticized to GA is Cesc, but he will agree with every tom, dick and harry about the negative crap they write about Arsenal.

    Seriously, Stevie Wonder could see that it took a while for Cesc to stop sulking at the beginning of last season and it was obvious who he was more worried about when we played Barca @ their place.

    Get over the Cesc love and back your team!

  253. Paul-N – s’true, onwards and upwards, eh …?

  254. And what’s more, we can now see that Cesc was effectively on strike throughout the summer. He wasn’t even training with the squad, due to some phantom injury, but somehow recovered miraculously for Barcelona from the very start of their season. I think he’s played more games than any of their other senior players.

    Add to that the sustained three-year assault by their whole club on us – we had no room to manoeuvre without risking a seriously fucked up situation. You thought our season started in disarray as it was? Had we prolonged the Cesc thing it might have been much worse.

  255. Bradys right foot

    The nonsense that we will fall foul of ffp presumes that the commercial deals we will negotiate for the Kit and Shirt deals in 2014 will be the same as the current deals, that simply wont be the case.

  256. Exactly arsenalandrew!

  257. Thanks hunter for sharing this comment:

    “Then i spoke with a friend who happens to be a manager in a different sport to football but still a teamsport…..also arsenal fan…and he was laughing at me… according to him who knows a thing or two about how managers think and work, it was the right move, the team was relying too much on him, the boy wanted to go, the boy was no vieira captain material plus he wasnt english to feel the commitment to arsenal that say an ashley cole should. plus the money. cesc came because of wenger..not because he grew up with tony adams posters in his room. why should he save arsenal? thats the duty of wilshere gibbs walcott frimpong ox etc etc ….”

    our manager has character……what many may say was not in the best interests of Arsenal, especially financially, well this is another side of Arsene, the person, looking out for player and Arsenal.

  258. Guess I just don’t like to see our club bullied. I’d have sold and replaced Nasri and clung on to Cesc regardless. If Cesc chose to sulk at us then we still had the option of selling him – I doubt we had much to lose on that front. I also believe he would have got on with playing – what’s the alternative? We have overplayed Ramsey as it is and so he would have started the season whilst Cesc got round to accepting that the tail does not wag the dog.
    When you say ‘blow up in our faces’ I am not sure what you mean? This is Barcelona we are dealing with not Al Quaeda yes?! 😉
    What was the GREAT risk for Spurs? Modric folds his arms, sticks his bottom lip out and sulks? Just seems very unlikely – 99% of players just want to play – once the window has closed they can only do that for one club. Plus there is always a chance Barcelona would have upped their offer had we absolutely refused to blink. Who knows?
    Of course we can never know what went on behind closed doors, and it’s just my feeling on the matter, but the fact that the club was prepared to make a stand and Wenger had to persuade them into selling speaks of something awry to my mind.
    I’m impressed with Spurs for the Modric non-transfer – they stuck to their convictions – great to see ‘player power’ and ‘bullying clubs’ getting a kick in the nuts for a change.

  259. Paul-n/Arsenalandrew, the truth of the matter is Arsene Wenger made a complete bollocks of Cesc’s transfer. His over-riding loyalty must be to the club, not to an individual player as he had clearly in this instance. However you’re right, it’s in the past, let’s get on with supporting the team.

  260. Not bloody cesc again. The man has barca DNA didn’t he?

    He didn’t want to be an Arsenal player. That finished him for me. Get shot. Quickly.

    There was one buyer for cesc. There was no market for him and therefore no market value.

    They offerred £35m. That was the only offer. he didn’t want to play for us anymore. Bye Bye.

    Does anybody else have a tortuous point to make to berate the club and Arsene?

  261. OOU – “And what’s more, we can now see that Cesc was effectively on strike throughout the summer

    I doubt it. As much as he may have wanted to move I don’t think he would have done that to Arsene who he looked up to.

  262. Seems scarcely believable but Stoke’s Rory Delap has just had his red card for mindless thuggery against Crawley Town at the weekend rescinded!

    When you think our lot risk getting sent off for looking at the ref in a funny way …

    One rule for The Mindless Thugs …

  263. Bob – Its not that black and white though. Just because for you you anted rid of him once he had made it known he wanted to leave, didn’t mean the club had to. We could have easily kept him.

  264. And also by that logic we should have accepted a bid of whatever they offered; £10M?

  265. goonerandy | February 21, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    “We could have easily kept him.”

    For what?? Bench-warming?? Sheesh…

  266. consolsbob | February 21, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    “They offerred £35m. That was the only offer. he didn’t want to play for us anymore. Bye Bye.

    Does anybody else have a tortuous point to make to berate the club and Arsene?”

    Good on you mate, good on you. Nicely put!! 🙂

  267. JD, I don’t know what you mean by that, it is obvious that Arsene is looking out for Arsenal first and foremost. The person that made that situation terrible was Cesc himself by acting like a little brat.

  268. We’ve been over this before Andrew and we just see it differently.

    No, £10 m would not have secured his services, it had to be a reasonable amount or we might as well have kept him, There was his ego to be satisfied by barca as well.

    I suspect that arsenal did all the thinking that has been gone over on this site and then a bit more. In the end it was a negotiated price. We got a chunk of money and lost a player who didn’t want to wear the red and white. cesc got to go home to mummy and barca got another spoilt brat.

    No one won.

  269. Yogi – maybe Arsenal are thinking of changing the club motto to “We’re getting there!”

  270. Arsenal Andrew – I say start a petition here http://www.petitionbuzz.com/ and let us all sign it and spread the word on Facebook to throw some weight behind it!

  271. Well obviously the money had to be something that the board would consider accepting. Didn’t the board reject previous bid’s?

  272. Bob – “We’ve been over this before Andrew and we just see it differently.

    Yeah, very true. Sleeping dogs and all that :).

  273. Balancing the books is always good. The problem is that the rules keep changing. Our financial model was made with the 90s in mind. A lot has changed since.

  274. Everyone sees everything differently hence “the only person who represents my views is me”. 😉
    And if we didn’t this would be those most anodyne blog in Christendom.

    I think this!
    Oo me too!
    And I also!
    Oh how fortuitous!
    How lovely!

    *reaches for shotgun*

    Let’s see if you agree with this… 😉

  275. “I doubt it. As much as he may have wanted to move I don’t think he would have done that to Arsene who he looked up to.”

    Mate, he wasn’t even the squad and stayed behind for the tour. He was training with his own guy, without the club’s staff, when there was nothing wrong with him. That approach can only end in a transfer. He says he looks up to AW and loves Arsenal but these footballers are a loopy bunch – Nasri still tweets stuff like “Once a gunner, always a gunner”! Don’t think for one moment they aren’t completely self-absorbed and won’t stoop low to get what they want.

    We kept him in 2010, when he was at least reluctant to hang around and played stupid, distracting games with us all summer. And what we got when we refused to negotiate was a player who had his worst season since getting into the team, and never spoke in the public unless it was to criticise AW, as in that interview in April last year. This was our captain!

    Those to me are the dangers of keeping a player who doesn’t want to stay and has one destination in mind – Modric basically called Levy a liar in the summer. How they fixed that situation I have no idea, but they played brinkmanship with him and maybe had the advantage of it not being an annual event, unlike with us. A bad run of form earlier in the season and it’s possible he’d have been the first player to let his head drop.

    And finally, as CB mentioned, AW has never bluntly stood in the way of a player who wants to leave. He might have talked Cesc into one more season in 2010, but when he started playing silly buggers again we had to negotiate.

  276. And sorry for errors, I’m not used to debating stuff, which is only partly why I suck at it!

  277. Yeah why exactly is Na$ri tweeting once a gooner always a gooner? What the fuck? Is he totally mental?

    Maybe he realises that he played shit loads better at our club than citeh. Or maybe he is just a cock!

  278. Wilshere was meant to be the replacement for Cesc I think. Best laid plans etc.

  279. Jabba's Delights

    I think allot was made of our supposed rubbish negotiating position with barca in that they didnt need him as a player supposedly. So he wanted to leave to only them they didnt desperately need him so everything wasnt in our favour to get the most out of it.

    Hindsight has shown that they absolutely did need him.

    We cant really be blamed for any of that though. The only place we can be blamed is for a useless response.

    Ramsey and Rosicky have quite clearly not got what it takes to be the 4th attacker and overall conductor in our set up yet in ramsey case and never in Rosicky case.

  280. Big Al – ha! Looked like a very well reasoned defence to me. Maybe you should try it more often! 😉

  281. Well anyway, good to see you back, Jonny!

  282. as opposed to complaining against the ‘rail’ department.

  283. Has Gains been around?

  284. Cheers mate – I noted my absence coincided with two terrible results – I’m not a superstitious man but I thought it’d be best not to tempt fate or deprive you any further of my rambling thoughts dressed up as wisdom.
    And yes, quite naturally, a win against the spud-fuckers and I will be claiming full credit.
    It’s only correct and fair after all. 😉

  285. Oh sh#t, van der vaart going to be fit for sunday

  286. We brought in some excellent players. Gervs, Ox, Per, Arteta and Santos. That is quality all the way.

  287. Drew10 – what, like this?:

    http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/afcticketrelease

    Worth a shot, maybe? Anyone that would like to see the club give season ticket holders the option to release their ticket to the disadvantaged on any match day they can’t make rather than sell through the Ticket Exchange scheme/simply not turn up – be my guest and sign up.

    (Apologies for YW – please delete this post if you prefer!).

  288. Nasri might be like Hleb and regret leaving.
    Cesc does not ,that is more clear.
    The more I think about Fabregas the more he disgusts me.
    I would make the cunt sit in a room with Jabba ans Luke ,watching endless reruns of the 4.4 at Newcastle.

  289. Who gives a fuck if VDV plays or not?

  290. Jabs

    You must miss Cesc. We are all very, very sorry and our heart goes out for your loss. It took an amazing manager to find and invest in an amazing youngster, but we have to move on now, brave it to the future. It will be hard for him to do it again, but if anyone can, I am sure AW can. He treated Cesc well and youngsters that go to Arsenal know that the spirit of their aspirations will be honoured there.

    I wish we had the money to say fuck them, fuck their young naive aspirations and carry their balls on a placard in the public square if they cross us, but we don’t. Shame.

  291. At least 4-4 at Newcastle was a draw.

  292. He’s tore us a new one 3 times already, id rather him be injured

  293. george,

    bitterness does no man no good.

  294. YW, we can now see for ourselves who and where these £55 millions and £50 millions for The Arsenal transfer budget came from! Can you bear with me?
    I extracted this, from your AST link to expose the flaws :

    Starting with £160m we must:
    • Deduct £32m held in the debt service reserve account (for future stadium repayments)
    • Deduct estimated season ticket advances (£65m) and estimated VAT payable (£13m)
    • Deduct cash “trapped” in the Queensland Road property development (£4m)
    This leaves a useable balance of £46m. Adding to this the net proceeds of the summer transfers (£14m) and subtracting agent fees and contract renewal fees, Arsenal have in the region of £50m available “to spend or to save for a rainy day”

    Why has the buffoon deducted £65 millions for season ticket advances? The Value Added Tax of £13 millions will have already been paid! AND he/she overlooks this:
    Check Note 4 Operating expenses for Wages £124,401 + Other Operating Expenses of £54.528/2 = £89.5 millions to come off the £160 millions if we take this trail! Deduct also the debt service reserve + the 2nd half interest due on the bonds say £7 millions, deduct Queensland Road of £4 millions. That is £43 millions ring-fenced!

    Whoever at the AST came up with this nonsense is not an accountant. The figures must be extracted from the 2010/2011 half-yearly in November 2010. It completely overlooks the players trading calculations and of course transfer contingencies of perhaps £11 millions.

    This is based on the same misstatements and miscalculations of Kieron O’Connor.

  295. Duke
    As it goes I drive a Picasso,play X-Box games and buy at least two cases of carling black label for my two greedy stepsons to guzzle every week.
    So my old mucker,how wrong can you be?

  296. Sour grapes oh my god, Cesc is not a spoilt brat, he happens to be one of the finest players we have ever had, he is a professional footballer who wants to win trophies, ok it never worked out here on that front, but he gave us good service, move on.

  297. Andrew – brilliant let’s get this ball rolling! I urge you all to sign Andrews petition – http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/afcticketrelease

  298. No spy its not sour grapes.
    He had a club where he was adored,A team built around him.A manager that schooled him and developed him ,not to mention a very long term contract that he had signed ,and he turned around and shit on everyone from a great height.
    He was as disloyal as a modern footballer can be.
    He let us down ,Arsene down and I say fuck the little weasel.
    Win trophies my fucking arse.I am sick of that sad excuse for cowardliness.
    If he had preformed when it mattered we would have won trophies.
    Pffft.

  299. Cheers Drew10 – at least it’s a positive suggestion; well done you for persisting with your original post.

  300. Notoverthehill
    Ok ,can you tell us how much is in Arsene’s back sack then?

  301. The manager is to blame! Forget everything else and just look at the facts, look at how unprepared we were for the start of the season. It is the managers responsibility to have the team in good shape for the first game NOT the end of the transfer window. The end of the transfer window is NOT the start of the season. He hoped to get through the first few weeks and then get some players on the cheap, in the end we lost 4 of the first 7 league games POOR MNANAGEMENT!! he knew Cesc and Nasri were going, sure he lied to us and said they were definitely staying but he knew they were going, he waited too long trying to save every penny before replacing them. The summer before he sold 5 Centre backs!!! Some were simply not up to it I know I.E campbell, senderos etc but no manager should be in a position where they lose 5 CBS in one transfer window ..POOR MANAGEMENT!! Arsenal started the season that year with the raw koscielny and Djourou a guy who had been out for over a year, once again Arsenal started the season behind. And don’t even get me started about the DM position at one time we had Flamini, Diarra and Gilberto with Song the young understudy, 3 of those went and all the reponsibility went on the shoulders of Song and has been for years…POOR MANAGEMENT!! these are just a few monumental errors he has made. i highlight them because I don’t think any other top level manager would be so naieve or neglegent.

  302. he knew Cesc and Nasri were going, sure he lied to us and said they were definitely staying but he knew they were going,

    Not a bad effort there little cock(I assume that is what Peewee means?)
    Only three errors in half a sentence.Something of a record I feel.

  303. George, do you notice that no one comes to the defence of Nasri, Flamini or Ade? I don’t see much of a difference in the situations. To be honest, Nasri’s contract was almost up and Flamini’s contract was over. So they have more of an excuse if you ask me.

  304. Yes, I wanted to know that george.

    I think that the AST bloke who does the figures is an accountant.

  305. Ade did act like a jerk, I must admit.

  306. I loved Cesc.I think he is the best midfielder in the world ,by a margin.
    But he is a disloyal cowardly young man.His football skills have no bearing on his character.

    I really don’t see what Nasri did wrong.
    Flamini? well he seems to have gone back on his word
    Ade? He was despicable,but not as bad as Cesc.

  307. Blah blah blah POOR MANAGEMENT Blah blah blah POOR MANGEMUNT Blah blah blah POOR MUNGERMINT Blah blah blah POOR MENAGERIEMENT Blah blah blah POOR MENTALMONG Blah blah blah POOR MONGERMOON Blah blah blah POOR ANGERMANAGEMENT.
    Yes, that’s the one, poor anger management.
    Got there in the end.
    Poor Peewee.

    Very poor in fact.

  308. no not at all Paul. it was always just a matter of time for cesc to leave. and what with him being one of the top mids in the game we all knew we didnt have the ambition for him, where as nasri, ade n flamini well they are no where near the top bracket of players and dont deserve to play for the top team in the world. completley different kettel of fish.

  309. Notoverthehill

    Not sure how Kieron got drawn into this but I will vouch for his financial knowledge and the logic applied to his interpretations. Like anything, you may not agree with the conclusions drawn but the fundamental assessments are not far wrong.

    As far as the AST analysis goes, it has been completed by someone who knows what they are doing. My own background gives me some reassurance of that.

    If I may point out the potential pitfalls in your observations.

    1. Season Ticket Advances

    Until such times as the match is played, that money is not Arsenal’s. They cannot draw it down and must repay if the match is not paid. So every time a home match is played, the ST revenues are taken by Arsenal into their operating bank account.

    2. VAT

    I don’t know if it will have been paid over. From my own knowledge of a variety of VAT schemes there is no guarantee of this and to be honest, there is a logic is removing that money from available cash balances. VAT is payable monthly or quarterly. Arsenal will have a VAT creditor at every month end and it is prudent to include a value for this. On the basis of no better information, £13m is at least attributable to a defined source.

    3. Operating Exps / Wages

    These have all been taken out of the £162m – there will be some accrued costs which have yet to be paid but other than the majority will have been funded already.

    The crucial aspect is that as far as cash balances are concerned, they are not entirely important for transfers. As I mentioned in the post, most are HP deals so cash is needed to service them rather than Dickie walking into a chairman’s office and plonking a suitcase down.

  310. I’ve heard a whisper that the silent majority support AW too

  311. George – “Ade? He was despicable,but not as bad as Cesc.

    This would be the same Ade that also fluttered his eyes at other clubs, and then once he got his move stamped on Cesc’s leg, booted RvP in the face, and also ran the full length of the pitch to take the piss out of the traveling gooners when he scored against us?

    Worse than Cesc? Not in my book.

  312. Andy did you mean to say

    “Cesc worse? Not in my book” ?

  313. Jabba's delights

    I don’t think it’s ever been in doubt that the majority of arsenal fans want wenger to stay. I just think allot of that majority want wenger to adapt his ways actually quite significantly. The question is whether the manager can adapt. The fan base won’t fall for the same gimmicks as the last 2 summers from the manager or the board

  314. Fucking VAT

  315. Andy ,Cesc was worse because he knew how much was riding on him.
    He is a ………………. must be a bit careful these days .That Yogi fellow is all seeing

  316. George – Ah, yes. My bad. Adebayour is a grade “A” cunt.

  317. George – Nonsense. It is not Cesc’s responsibility that the team was riding on him. He is just a player at the end of the day. He wanted to go home where he had more chance of winning stuff. Shame he decided to leave and a shame that we decided to let him go. End of story really.

  318. Jabba .Basically what you are saying is,

    “Arsene can stay as long as he stops being Arsene and starts being……………….. Pedro, Jabba,Arseblog,Luke………..people who really know and understand”

    He is staying and he will continue down the same path.Live with it will ya!

  319. And you can’t tell me that was worse that booting our players in the face and then taking the piss out of our fans. Fucking no chance.

  320. George – What do you have against Arseblog? Did he spurn your advances?

  321. Look if a fellow is missing his mummy and daddy you really shouldn’t stand in his way you know. Bad form.

  322. Oh fuck off with that wanting to win shit Andy its rubbish and tiresome.
    He is a cunt.End of.

  323. George – “Oh fuck off with that wanting to win shit Andy its rubbish and tiresome

    Hmmm, you don’t get this sports lark do you?:

  324. Ade did not pretend to be a proper Arsenal man.
    Fuck Cesc.

  325. Ade did not pretend to be a proper Arsenal man

    Apart from the numerous times he kissed the badge, but hey, don’t let little facts like that temper your agenda.

  326. Bollocks.
    You try to make your team win not huddle together with a load of ringers.
    That is achieving nothing for me.

  327. Nice posts, YW, both here and on AOTD. I admire your “appetite”. Very interesting to compare the points made in the Graham articles versus today’s situation.

    On the Djourou extension, £50K per week does seem like a lot, but I guess it’s yet another sign of general wage inflation. It doesn’t seem too long ago that a £100K+ wage was the highest in the league. With Nasri and Ade in the high £100s and Tevez and Yaya over £200K (apparently), it seems like it has all doubled (or more) in a relatively short space of time. In that context, £50K doesn’t seem outrageous. (In any other, it certainly does!)

    To the people who say it is folly to give Djourou a contract extension, what do they propose as an alternative? He’s pretty good as a third- or fourth-choice centre back. Given that with a longer contract, he would go for a higher fee if we decided to sell him, to me it doesn’t seem like bad business.

  328. On a good note, Mr Miyaichi has to be applauded for playing well under extreme duress at Millwall, every time he received the ball the thugs shouted out DVD.
    He thanked the crowd at the end-what a Gent.

  329. Spy – I remember a game at Highbury (against Wolves I think) where the same was happening to one of the opposition players. Was a long time ago mind.

  330. Frank – I think that whisper is deafening. That’s why I stopped wasting my breath arguing with people. No need. Nothing to prove.

  331. Jabba's delights

    George

    No arsene can stay as long as starts getting the best out of the team and his resources again. What’s gets missed by many is that that’s what a manager is meant to do. Get the best out of his players……..we quite clearly don’t have manager doing that or is it because the players are really average remember that there is 130m a year in wages at this club…….hmmm decisions decisions

  332. Cheery mood there George?!

    Cannot reconcile calling Cesc a cunt – he wanted to go home – I dislike his part in engineering the move but he did and does have love for the club. Just a young, conflicted man who was the victim of peer pressure from his international team mates and perhaps had too much thrust upon him too soon. He did not cover himself in glory but a ‘cunt’. How about we save it for people who are worth. You sound like Gains!

  333. Andy/ shh don’t bring that up- more Ammo for Hunter ha

  334. Jabba's delights

    He always stated his love for barcelona. He was given the chance to play for his hometown team who are the best side in the world maybe in history with many of what might be some of the best individuals in history.

    I think all parties could have handled it better but I don’t begrudge him leaving. Time is precious as a footballer and we are in the slow lane t arsenal currently and it will take a big change in mindset throughout the club to get out of it. It’s common for star players at underachieving clubs to ask for more ambition. The club either does what its asked or not. We have the same issue with rvp coming up, there will be exactly the same outcome unless we get out of the slow lane

    Cesc is one of our greatest ever players without doubt and we were lucky to have him

  335. Ha, true. I didn’t say it was an English guy shouting it though though 😉

  336. Jonny .I really am sorry but he is for me .A huge betrayal from him..

    When I was 23 I knew my own mind.Did you?
    He knew Jonny.
    He signed up long term and should have left when he had a couple of years left on his contract He could have gone then an as we knew that was the plan all parties would have been happy.
    But no.He cried his way all the way home

    Gains was often right Jonny.Because he was wrong about you does not mean he was always wrong btw.

    No .I think “cunt” just about covers Cesc for me

  337. We still bickering about money, and cesc and who should have done what last year? Are we still moving in circles?

  338. That Jabba backs Cesc should be proof enough about what Cesc actually is.

  339. Well said Jabba

  340. Poodle – Indeed we are. Like a one armed man on a life raft at sea.

  341. George – You sound like a spurned 12 year old after your first love ran off with the 5th former because he had a car. “I didn’t like her anyway”.

  342. @goonerandy thihi 🙂

  343. Oh give it a rest Andy.
    You forgive him all you like,
    He acted like a twat.
    He was a twat
    He is a twat.

    And that he is a magnificent footballer changes that not a jot.

  344. I think that we all have very strong feelings about Cesc, be they positive or negative. While he was still with us I often turned a blind-eye, giving him the benefit of the doubt. Thinking that he was really torn between us and them. But now, in hindsight, I think it is very obvious that Cesc played a big part in ensuring he got his move to Barca, and I do believe that he either spurned his mates on to talk about him in the press or at least turned a blind-eye. Because if that speculation wasn’t in his favour, he could’ve easily told them to stop it. But that he didn’t, that he allowed them to talk about him week in, week out, just tells you a lot about Cesc. And the half-arsed performances that he did give at times during his last season with us, the infamous Barca back-heel and the Sp*rs handball, are just the cherry on the top of the icing on the cake. He had never before made mistakes of that magnitude, mistakes down to sheer stupidity and nothing much else. He clearly betrayed us and he is not a man worthy of his word. He signed a contract, a lucrative one, so he should’ve had the balls to see it out. He didn’t. Now while I won’t go as far as to call him the c-word, I feel that this word should be reserved for a different kind of player, I would kindly ask some of the posters here to stop pretending like Cesc is somehow innocent. He didn’t get his head turned or caved in to pressure from his mates, he is old enough to decide for himself. And he had decided two seasons ago that he wanted to leave, while pretending on the outside, “officially” that he was happy here and not engineering for a move.

  345. Spy this is an oxymoron if ever I have heard one

    “Well said Jabba”

  346. Evil I agree,But that would make him a cunt would it not?

  347. Evil – I agree with that to be honest. I only got talking about it after George stated that he was worse than Adebaoyour a man who kicked one of our players and an ex-team mate in the head and ran the full length of the pitch to take the piss out of Arsenal fans. A whole different level of cuntishness IMO.

  348. Jabba's delights

    George

    What do you think was said when they had that well documented “special” conversation before 2010 world cup. Cesc came away saying he now felt relaxed about his future, where as before he didn’t……soooooo

    A) arsene told him that he coul win things with us and that we would address the obvious weaknesses in our squad to Try to close the gap

    B) cesc told him he wanted to leave but arsene pleaded with him to stay one more year and if we flattered to deceive again he would be sold for the right price

    C) arsene told him that he isn’t leaving he is under contract and that’s the last that will be said on the matter. Either way arsene knew he wanted to leave if certain things didn’t happen

  349. The Arsenal, Will Rise Again
    With Arsene Wenger At The Helm

    The Arsenal, Will Rise Again
    And All You Cunts Eat Pies Again

    The Arsenal, Will Rise Again
    And Ill Be There, To Cheer Again

    thi-ery uhn-ree, thi-ery uhn-ree
    thi-ery uhn-ree thi-ery uhn-ree

    The Arsenal Will Rise Again
    na ra nana na nana…..

    The Arsenal Plays Sunday
    its the spuds were gonna slay

    You noisy tw@ts, Your time has come
    dont forget whose your dad.

    oe oe o eo oe oe oe oe oe oe

    cesc fabregas
    samir nasri
    frimpong and jack
    will smash your knee

    oe oe o eoeo e…no no no …ignore the last …..we aint scum…..i just put it there for the comedy value ..or non value…too sensitive subjects …

    Payton* you Mug, Just shut Your Trap
    Grow Some Balls, Support the Squad

    The red and white until we die
    its all we’ve known, since we’re born

    So Take your trash, and go to spain
    The Arsenal Will Rise Again

    thi-ery uhn-ree, thi-ery uhn-ree
    thi-ery uhn-ree, thi-ery uhn-ree

    Vengah is, Our Father Lord
    He decides, Who stays and goes

    As long as he, has got his health
    dont want to see nobody else

    What he has done, For Arsenal
    Is fucking great and im no tw@t

    Respect the Man, Respect The Club
    Through Harmony We’ll Reach The Stars

    i decided to become a silly 10 year old child for a while to remember what support sentiment and singing for your team means…..i could cry like the other babies …… my god the stadium must be collapsing from the decibels on sunday…sheer terror….. cage! yogi im sorry i dont knwo what got to me .. i started singing it in the car driving back home and had to save it somewhere…….pity me… i wont bother…this arsenal …this addiction…nothing else matters…just arsenal….wenger has destroyed our lives and has got us hooked on this…blame him …lol…not me. i said no to drugs but they wouldnt listen to me.

    * instead of payton one can use morgan ..lol it still rhymes…

  350. * jabba could work too..still rhymes

  351. What the fuck are you on about Jabba.
    I am expected to speculate about a mystical conversation?
    Fantasising about things might be your thing but why would I play?

    Andy
    My point is we had known for years what Ade was.But Cesc consistently deceived us.
    Cesc betrayed us, Ade is simply an idiot.
    So I am sorry but Cesc is worse for me.

  352. @GA
    In a way George is right. What Cesc did is by far worse then what Adebayor, Nasri and co. did and could ever do. Not the actions in themselves, mind you. But that Cesc was capable of doing what he did. We all saw him, more or less, grow up saw him mature, turn into the world class player he is, the best midfielder in the world right now. We were there, every step of the journey. And then he just left. And that is just something, no matter what Adebayor does, it won’t have the same impact because while Adebayor was a good servant during his time, Cesc was destined to become a legend. And he throw it all away.

  353. so we moved to the emirates to break even then??and if we dont play CL we breach FFP..

    whats ironic is wenger could have spent no more than a third of that cash thats been held back over the years and created a more competitive group of players that could have done abit better than just 4th and maybe saved you the 45mil its potentially going to cost by finishing lower than that..

    the positive thing about all this is that the club have the money to keep us affloat for a year or two..then the sponserships are renewed so we are not totally fucked..

    but the wages is something thats concerned me..the mispent money..

    you’re correct yogi, when you say its a myth that we dont invest at all…but the contract renewels over the last few years of players that have not made it costs us about 20mil a year as baggage now….yesterday you mentioned in the post that the wages is something thats judged with hindsight..i agree, if the faith in the players is repaid, then it was a masterstroke..i can understand the method in the madness because of all the bosmans and websters and whatevers, we were protecting our investment, but i think we overcooked it with certain investments and its turned out to be a burden, not only is it leaving us with a squad full of players that are not good enough, but our finances are taking a huge hit with the mispent cash…..we could do with a clear out this summer..i would seriously consider bringing in david dein in a negotiator role and asking him very politely to use his contacts and his wheeler dealer skills and help wenger sort the playing side of things out..

    another positive is that we are already in 4th..its in our hands what happens, if we make it over the line then our finances are fine, weve got a 50million kitty and when the market is depressed we can go out and flex our muscles..
    finish fifth and that kitty turns into a safety net so kiss bye bye to seeing the club active in the market..

    i wouldnt say the clubs been mismanaged, because its a business thats worth a billion quid..but it has been strategically managed at a disadvantage to the football club and im incredibly sad that we sold our soul to the devil

  354. Jabba's delights

    Not sure how the Somali supporters club does it but the rest of the world thinks it’s pretty classless to talk about former players having there knees smashed for leaving. Then again we probably did know didn’t we

  355. When Cesc plays at the Emirates again he will get a standing ovation, that I have no doubt.

  356. Evil,you are right about me being right,But not in a way.Just right.All right?

  357. I dont get it. Cesc did not excist in a vacume away from the other players. it was as much his fault that anybody elses we did not win trophies. If he was stronger mentally he would have lifted our team.
    He was after all suppose to be our outstanding star player. But he never did. when the gloom set in, cesc became gloomy too. He gave up. Superstars never give up. Nasri gave up and people pick on him for that. How come Cecs is allowed to give up and Nasri is not?

    He also totally failed to show any commitment when it matterd as most. When we played Barcelona and he let Abidal strangle RvP. When other playes had to go and talk to the ref after RvP was sent of in Barcelona and cesc was secrtly cheering inside.
    When he gave his “team mates” a great assist so they could score against Arsenal in a Barcelona match?

    He was a good servant aslong as the team played well, but when they played crap he never managed to give us a lift, the lift that real truly great players give their team in hard times. What did he do? he gave up! Cesc the great, gave up. He gave up!

    Cesc was a great player but he was never mentally strong enough to be a key player, a player which the team relied on. For example rooney and gerrard thrive on that preassure, cesc buckled. The proof are in the games that really mattered, the games that could have changed the history of this club. And especially in the matches against Barcelona. But also in his last year he was not exactly inspiring. IF nothing we probably sold him a yaer to late.

    I will never forget how he behaved whilst we played Barcelona. It was just bizzare for a team captain. How can a captain act like that? How can an arsenal player be biased towards Barcelona in a CL knockout match??
    After that he could not stay captain for me. Which meant he had to be sold as Cesc would never have accepted to loose captaincy and still stay.

    Guys Cesc was great, but he wanted Barcelona. Not because we did not win stuff. Ronaldo left United when they scooped in trophies. He did not leave due to lack of trophies.He left because the club he idolised wanted to pay him for playing in their clours.

    And so did Cesc. And stop with that trophy crap. Cesc would have left even if we did win trophies, just as Ronaldo did.
    But in his last season he was a huge dissapointment. Mind you a dissapointing cesc was still the best midfielder in the PL. but i think that says more about the PL than about cesc…..

  358. George, you miss my point re Gains – I have never suggested he was/is always wrong. On the contrary, on more than a couple of occasions I have vocally agreed with him. The reason I was making such an allusion is that think we should reserve words like cunt for those who are genuinely deserving. It’s an unpleasant word and carries severe connotations using it carelessly cheapens and diminishes both it’s meaning and it’s user.
    I long ago was disabused of the notion that footballers and fans think about the game in remotely the same way. Cesc had great conflict in his heart and made some poor decisions but he was also clearly HUGELY upset to say goodbye to the club and to Wenger especially. I genuinely think he is a decent fellow but I could not say the same of Ade who I think has no respect for anyone, has tried to injure our own players deliberately and to wind up our fans. He has never come across as a pretty likeable guy.]
    Given that Wenger has defended Cesc unflinchingly, and does not seem to have any problem with him at all, I am surprised you have taken such a hard line attitude. not like you to disagree with Arsene! 🙂
    And I scarcely know myself now, never mind at 23! 😉

  359. Jabba's delights

    George

    We know the conversation happened as cesc said so on tv and he called it special and how he now felt at ease. So why considering your a rational person can’t you derive any opinion between what might have been said between cesc fabregas and arsene wenger regarding the formers future after strong interest from Barcelona in the summer 2010

  360. @poodle
    Exactly. Cesc saw probably the greatest Barca team of all time … and he saw his chance to become a part of that team, to immortalise himself in Barca history. That’s why he couldn’t wait, that’s why he had to leave. So that he could become a Barca legend, as opposed to an Arsenal legend.

  361. Poodle agree with some of that but to be honest he should never have been captain in the first place!

  362. im reading this lipton guy in the mirror…what a piece of trash..after sacking capello he wants to sack villaboas now…this is incredib;le really..what is it with english journalists sacking managers every week…samuel does it too…

    i then read lawreson…lol what a waste ….

    “Wenger was prepared to spend £12m on Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain because he is one of the best young prospects in the country, who is busy proving his worth.
    But he wasn’t prepared to spend a similar amount on a proven Premier League player like, for example, Gary Cahill. That says all you need to know about him and his priorities.”

    and this guy used to be a footballer and should know the difference between investing in a young 17 yearold ( best young prospect in the country) for 12 million and spending 17million for a 27 yearold defender who played for……. bolton.

    oh what does it say then mark ??? that HIS priorities are different to manchester united;s and chelsea’s who spend 100m per summer? His priorities? Or the Clubs?

    what a useless collection of journalists……yogi you see why i trash them…how can you blame me?

  363. Evil it’s not as though we were under any allusion about this – we always knew he would go – it was just a matter of when.

  364. Jabba .Because it is totally pointless speculating what may or may not have been said .
    Really.Is it me or do other people think the same ?

  365. Jabba's delights

    But he is a Barcelona boy it’s his ultimate dream since hevcould first speak. Would you turn down the dream of your life? Even if you said yes to that question it would still be a gut wrench for you to turn down such a wonderful opportunity. to then call someone a cunt for making the opposite call is classless and lacks any sort of balance

  366. and then you have the jabba people who go and reads lawrseons cr@p for instance and on he comes to repeat it and then we have stupidity producing more stupidity…fucking gremlins…

  367. Jonny I covered that point earlier.
    He should have expected to leave with one or two years left on his contract.
    That would be the reason for a long contract would it not?

  368. Jabba's delights

    Just imagine George, what would those to have to say to each other regarding his career at that stage for cesc to come out and say what he did.

  369. Hunter – don’t read them!

    Ignorant ink-wasters, who get paid far too well for the pernicious role of raising one’s blood pressure and shortening one’s life.

  370. jabba you are worse than a feather in the wind…….

    in daytime we were arguing about the sentiment shown towards fabregas return to his homeland and friends and blah balh and you were calling for wenger;s head for f*cking us over in the deal…..” he did not act in favour of arsenal interests” pmsl ….

    now youre telling george to be sentimental since the boy completed his dream move

    you remind me of the kids at the park where they use their backpacks for goalposts so that they move them all the time.

    😉

  371. pernicious ?????

    here we go

  372. I see it the other way George – the longer contract suited the club protecting their investment ensuring sufficient remuneration should he decide to leave early. At least that was, I imagine, the plan… 😛

  373. Jonny | February 21, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    oh i hear you buddy……. and that fat guy samuel in the mail…the “pearls” he has written about that good honest lad terry that pillar of decency….

    makes me sick really…

  374. Free the ACLF One

  375. Vive le soixante neuf

  376. Gainsbourg is innocent

  377. @ Evil my point is he woudl have left regardless of US winning trophies or not. If he wanted to be a Barca legend in a good barcelona team, why would he care if we won stuff or not? He wants to be a barca legend, NOT an arsenal legend. Just as Ronaldo wants to be a Real legend, not a stinking United legend.

    Cesc leaving had nothing to do with Arsenal and how they preformed, it had to do about Barcelona, and only Barcelona. That is what iI wanted to highlight.
    Why? Because how ever much you try, how ever much you win, you just CANNOT become a Barcelona legend in an Arsenal jersey…

    Just as you cannot become a Real Madrid legend in Manchester United as Ronaldo found out after he had won everyhting that he could win with Manchester United…

  378. The Naples fans really get behind their team. Fabulous. Imagine that.

  379. Jabba's delights

    Hunter

    I’m telling him not to call him a cunt

  380. @poodle
    And I fully agree. I think even if we had won the Carling Cup that year, it wouldn’t have been enough to stop him. He saw his place in Barca’s midfield and he wanted to be able to play under his idol Pep, with Xavi, Iniesta and co. Something that possibly would not have been possible if he had seen out his contract.

  381. @jonny i agree that Cesc may not have been the best choice for Captain, but that is an entirly different discussion that i hope we dont have to take now 🙂

    My point was merly , yes he was great but he was not perfect as some people seem to think. He had his flaws like everyone els.

  382. @ Evil 🙂

  383. Jabba's delights

    They also throw rotten eggs at players and manages they don’t like and issue death threats left right and centre. Very loud don’t get me wrong but it can come at a price

  384. whats up with Piers Morgan btw? has he totally lost it? why go into a mocking war with one of your own players?? I know Frimpong can be mothy sometimes but still. Fans going to war with their own club?? And mocking frimpong for “not being good enough for the team” sayin hes not a true arsenal fan for “going on loan to Wolves?”
    That guys is fucking stupid….

    Besides frimpong is 19, you are allowed to be a tad stupid as 19. Morgan is what? 50????

  385. The thing is, what Frimpong said, that wasn’t stupid at all in my opinion. That Piers Morgan is doing what he is doing just shows the he is a classless git and not the person we necessary want associated with our great club.

  386. Poodle certainly no disagreement on either point – I am all to aware of Cesc’s flaws just don’t think he deserves to be placed in the ‘cunt’ bracket.

    Frank – far as I know Yogi only sin-binned him for a short time – no?

  387. No idea, Jonny. Seems a shame though. Always like Serge.

  388. Yes Jonny he is in my book.And a great big huge one at that.

  389. I love what Frimpong wrote – he really cares about the club.

    Piers Morgan is excrement and always will be – on the list of famous Arsenal fans he comes beneath Bin Laden ;-).

    Wherever Frimpong ends up he’ll always get my support – I hope he finishes his career with The Arsenal – he has already said it is all that he wants, that they’ll have to drag him away and he’ll go on his knees and beg if they try to sell him.

    A proper Gooner dreaming of becoming a proper Gunner.

  390. Jabba’s delights | February 21, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    about who? cesc ?

    lol he can think whatever he wants of him …like you do on wenger..right or wrong? 😉

    im sure he admitted he is a fine footballer though….you keep insisting that wenger has lost it…cant manage, cant make transfers, cant motivate etc etc

    there is a difference.

    look i loved cesc because of his bergampesque quality/technique/vision..the boy was our mainframe……serious microchip…cesc can “talk” to the ball and send it anywhere he wants..but yes no captain , no general…van persie is a better captain than cesc.

    i blame holland…..they should have attacked the spaniards and finnish them instead of going for the mourinho approach. no way we could keep him after that. imagine the girls puyol brought to cesc when they got back home…..imagine what they did ..all together..mates…partyuing..world cup winners…and then he came to grey london and saw eboue , almunia, walcott and …….we know the rest.

    ohh lavezii…love you mate!

  391. Jonny,lets just hope he is good enough.

  392. Jabba's delights

    What has organ said back

  393. Jabba's delights

    Hunter

    I would never even think of calling wenger cunt

  394. How come its seen as more beneficial to give a large sign on fee when RvP signs a new contract instead of spreading it out on a higher salary over time?
    I sense there is some complicated economical benefits that the club gains that i dont really understand?

  395. @ Jonny i agree regarding frimpong. If Frimp and jenkinson and Yennaris, Afobe etc maks the grades we will soon have an Arsenal team full of Arsenal fans. now that is rare for a top 4 club.
    Most of our competitor clubs buys their playes from everywhere. i doubt City got one single city fan playing for them.

    If we manage this it will be AWs greates legacy, to build a competitive Arsenal team full of arsenal fans…

  396. Infact it will be a predominalty english team filled with players, and with players that arrived no later than aged 18 years of age and practically grew up in arsenal.

    Already we got Coq,Frimp, Gibbs, Ramsey, Wilshere,Walcott, Ox, Chezney, Yennari, Jenkinson and Afobe that are sniffing around the first team.
    They all came 18 or younger to the club or were die hard Arsenal fans when they came.

    It will be grand if this experiment is successfull….

  397. I agree with Jabba and the jibletts.
    When I read that ashley cole wasn’t given the pay rise he wanted I nearly crashed my car.

  398. Yogi, read Kieron O’Connor’s last 3 or 4 articles on The Arsenal transfer budget of £50 millions! It is a mish-mash of mistakes! He is an Arsenal supporter so I will defend his right to project a transfer budget and I will email him IF I think it is mish-mash.

    To say that THAT the AST summation of a November 2011 half-year was based on November 2010 half-yearly! The ticket advance monies will be held in a Clients’Account by The Arsenal and drawn down as the matches tick down. For Heavens sake this was a projection to 31st May 2012. I quote “. Here the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust (AST) seeks to reconcile what will be another profit-generating period with a far from certain financial future”.

    The AST members are supporters of The Arsenal and they are entitled to try and reconcile what they do not know (that includes me) with what they are told and the Annual Financial Reports. They are entitled to know that there are too many flaws in that document for ANY realistic transfer budget to be drawn from it. Whoever drew it up is not an accountant!

    For those who want to know what I think is in the Transfer Budget, I would draw your attention to Page 64, Note 30:
    “Player transactions
    Since the end of the financial year a subsidiary company, Arsenal Football Club plc, has contracted for the purchase and sale
    of various players. The net receipt resulting from these transfers, taking into account the applicable levies, is £12.1 million.
    These transfers will be accounted for in the year ending 31 May 2012. ”

    UP THE ARSENAL AND ALL IT’S SUPPORTERS!!!

  399. Hunter

    I would never even think of calling wenger cunt

    thats the thing though ..if youd call him a c#nt i would agree ….he is one big c#nt he is….very clever too..he will do you when you least expect it…you wont see it coming…foxy cunt this arsene ..like getting into champions league finals with best defensive record with senderos toure eboue…. and flamini as left back…and ljunberg playing as central mid, left midfield, right half extrem, shaddow striker, and in the hole if necessary…..

    what you cant call him is useless, or non ambitious, or past it. or idealless…or tacitcally naive , or ” you dont know what youre doing” any of that sort

    c#nt is fine with me…its the other descriptions that drive me mad.

  400. Great D-fence from Cahill anid chums there. Not that dislike him, or even have an opinion.
    Just an observation.

  401. Duke, mi bredrin, that was kinda lame.

  402. poodle | February 21, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    finally some perspective…well thought , well said.

    you read that jabba?….

    even if it pays off in 2032 it will still have been worth it….;)

  403. Fuck me Noel Gallagher and Chris Martin appearing together, what next peace on here!

  404. Jabba's delights

    Poodle

    We have been here before. Players don’t all turn out like you hope. The fact that you have yennais and jenkinson there makes one think you dreaming but your switched off. How would two young rb develop at a club when playing behind sagna. The kids must play to grow but we can’t afford to start the whole process of allowing kids to learn and make mistakes in our first team again.

    Wilshere was brought up a west ham than by the way in the same way Richards was brought up a gooner

  405. @ Notoverthehill
    Would you write an “alternative” reading of the accounts?

  406. Oh dear. Wrong again! Imagine that. Yenanris is a CM. Says here:

    “Versatile midfielder Nico has risen through Arsenal’s Academy ranks and is an England youth international….”

  407. Napoli have a proper shoot on sight policy.

  408. Done & dusted.

    Please: DNFTVI.

  409. Wait…one more thing just caught my eye
    It says here:

    “Jack joined Arsenal in 2001 as a nine-year-old…”. By the bleedin’ bells of Bow, how the bloomin’ eck did that happen?

  410. Jabba's delights

    Finsbury

    For anyone who has paid any attention to arsenal youth in the past few years you would know that he never gets game time in the reserves at cm. He was in the u18. Even then tou have cow and firm developing. He plays 45 against utd and he jumps to your attention, he has been around for ages bar a huge amount of injuries you would have never heard of him. It’s funny none of you mention henderson

  411. And Napoli score again! Well, if we go out, at least they should go out as well. If Napoli can add another one, it will be a huge task and I think it will be beyond the current Chelsea side to come back from that. Probably no English teams in the last 8, huh?

  412. Fins, midfield is Yennaris’ preferred position – played there quite a lot as U18.
    Not sure I would have called him a midfielder, as his first team appearances have been at RB, but versatile midfielder does technically cover that…

  413. In a recent interview, Yennaris also spoke of being a midfielder, who’s happy to play in other positions. Thank fuck for the dictionary eh? ‘Versatile’ had me very confused.

    Henderson who played for the first team last season? He’s been out injured. Along with Afobe. I suppose we should ask for him to repay his his wages to the club.

    What a useless troll.

  414. Knock me down with a feather, Cesc is presenting at the ‘Brits’ ha

  415. but evil…serie a teams are in decline..it says so in the sun the mail etc etc … 😉

    why cant we have world class goalkeepers and centrebacks like chelsea? damn you vengah…..

  416. Spy @8.51 – Next? Me an’ Gains are going to sing a close harmony duet. 😉

  417. Eh, Jonny, where’d you come from.

    I was pining for Yennaris or Coquelin* starting at RB after the Marseille games where Djourou played so well. Well I did mentin once I think. I suppose I could’ve wrtitten that every day upon YW’s generous forum. I’m sure everyone would’ve have appreciated it.

    *They are, well, they are quick. And not knowing much, I think quick players are brilliant. Slow players can be good too, sometimes. Yes. Life is simple for me. Simples!

  418. Haha, Henri’s in goal for West Ham!

  419. Jabba's delights

    Finsbury

    Actualy I meant in the fact that he is a hugely talented player coming through the club and nobody mentioned him as an option. Afobe started to look good at Huddersfield

    It’s amazing howcaggressive you hunter nag george are

  420. Oooh, so close Napoli. C*ntley clears on the line. It’s fair to say however that Chelsea are getting a hiding almost as good as we did last week.

  421. Er he’s injured. Ou long term. It’ll take himk a season to re-build.

    Rational logic = Aggression. Ok then. If you insist. After you sir.

  422. Bloody hell, imagine if we’d got Mata. He’s utterly wasted at Chelsea.

  423. Jonnie/ I would pay to see that!

  424. Jabba's delights

    Evil

    It’s fair ton say that their manager is under huge pressure because of performances like this despite havin very few of his own players and 2 quite barren transfer windows to sort itout

  425. JAbba and chums: ‘Arsenal have the highest ticket prices’.

    Matt: ‘No. No they do not. Look.’

    Jabba and chums: ‘Quick, change the subject!’

    etc.

  426. Think I walked in on the end of one there Fins! ;0)

  427. Lansbury currently in goal for West ham

  428. “Haha, Henri’s in goal for West Ham!”

    How is he getting on Vince?

  429. Henri likes playing in goal. Considers himself a good keeper

  430. Jabba's delights

    Finsbury

    O right I didn’t realise they were naming that young group of players all as first team squad players for next season……they wetent doing that right

  431. I think I want West Ham to stay down. If they stay down, Green is going to leave … which will open up the goalkeeper spot for Almunia who did impress during his loan spell. Maybe they’d be interested in buying him if they lose Green.

  432. Jonnie/ very funny, you have ur Mojo back.

  433. @JD
    Only in your world buying 80 million worth of players over two transfer windows is considered barren.

  434. My friend’s at the West Ham game and says he’s hardly had anything to do. They’ve just scored a third so it looks like he’ll be on the winning team! He’s done it for England U21s before too.

  435. Cesc was sold for 29 million pounds not 35. It was 35 million yoyo

  436. It was under the sofa all along Spy, cowering behind what’s left of my dignity.

    I should hoover more often.

  437. Didn’t he save a penalty before when he stepped into goal? He does seem to love it there!

  438. He’s caught a bunch of crosses and had a talking to by the ref for time wasting! Kevin Phillips beat him with a curler from range but it hit the post. Come on Henri!

  439. Jabba's delights

    Fins

    Funny as you seem to avoid all our stats like the plague as well

    4 years with less points each season.

    More goals conceded each season

    40 percent of games have been lost over the last 56

    These are the damming stats and not one of you ever has ever come up with anything as to why our manager shouldn’t be blamed for it

  440. It’s amazing howcaggressive you hunter nag george are

    do you realise what youre saying?
    do you realise the amount of backflips you make in your statements?
    or how you confuse everything and mix it in a salad?

    aggressive? Ha! …if this was live discussion in some pub you wouldnt be finishing your sentences….id be the first to throw yoghurt and tomatoes at you 😉 and boo you of course..i wouldnt even let you speak..id throw you out to be honest…members only. ;p

    forza napoli! jabba if arsenal had won the european with diego maradona and then gone in second division for a while you would have committed suicide wouldnt you? look at them now…beating the mercenaries…its cyclical…..and wenger has squared the circle….we are consistent the last 16 years..hehehe

  441. I resist the urge to gloat but that result certainly puts everything into persepective for the pundits doesnt it,,,gazzillion spent and still get battered. Now both london clubs in crisis. That fourth spot is now going to be a fight to the death.To be fair Napoli was always the most underated team likely to cause and upset..We are going to beat Milan. Mark my words.COYG

  442. Andrey Arshavin netted twice as Arsenal Reserves put in a superb performance to beat Norwich 5-0 at Carrow Road on Tuesday evening.

    Ju Young Park opened the scoring in the sixth minute from close range before Arshavin curled in a second just before half time.

    Benik Afobe – who had earlier missed a penalty – claimed the third in the 58th minute before Arshavin registered again seven minutes later. Yossi Benayoun capped off a brilliant individual display with the final goal just before the end.


  443. Norwich 0 Arsenal 5 (Res.)

    Young Park 6,
    Arshavin 44, 65,
    Afobe 58,
    Benayoun 87

    Arsenal

    James Shea
    Carl Jenkinson (46) RB?
    Jernade Meade
    Martin Angha
    Ignasi Miquel (c)
    Nico Yennaris RB? RB after HT?
    Yossi Benayoun
    Oguzhan Ozyakup
    Andrey Arshavin
    Ju Young Park
    Marouane Chamakh (29)

    Substitutes

    Sean McDermott
    Elton Monteiro
    Kyle Ebecilio (46)
    Benik Afobe (29)(73)
    Zak Ansah (73)

  444. @JD
    Now you are just pretending to be stupid, aren’t you? You mentioned those exact same things a couple of weeks ago and I showed you, that it’s a trend in the league. Every of the original Top 4 clubs has suffered from it over the past several years. Chelsea did, ManU did, Liverpool did. And the answer is easy, as well. The league has become more competitive with the emergence of our neighbours and Oil City. You can either blame that on Wenger (and then you have to blame Fergie, Benitez/Daiglish and however is the current manager of Chelsea as I can’t be arsed to keep track of their managerial merry-go-round) or simply accept the facts. Though I believe you will pick the first option, as you seem quite reluctant to ever do the latter.

  445. Jenkinson played 45 mins.

  446. Jabba's delights

    Evil

    Is it numbers or money your talking about. You see I’m talking about that little thing called team building which a new manger needs to do. You see you’ve taken for granted that our manger has had 15 years to build a club and a structure in his mould. It an advantage that few of you see. You see it because its not there. Despite amazing continuity this team still looks like they dont know each other or the system.

    Avb has very few of his players arsene has all f his plyers

  447. Jabba's delights

    Evil

    So is arsenals form this year a natural trend of things. I see some sides have bucked that downward trend

  448. Correction to the comment above @ 9:55 pm

    < Carl Jenkinson (45) RB?

  449. It is gloriousto watch another side who are utterly pathetic at defending and be ripped to shreds for it.

  450. You see I’m talking about that little thing called team building which a new manger needs to do. You see you’ve taken for granted that our manger has had 15 years to build a club and a structure in his mould. It an advantage that few of you see. You see it because its not there.

    i have read that three times …you see….i dont understand it ….

    especially this part “It an advantage that few of you see. You see it because its not there.”

    LOST must be your favourite series….

  451. the season ticket debate one is pointless.

    there are comparable instances like Matts, where it is much and much the same cost. What isnt a debate is that our cheapest ticket is much much much more expensive than the cheapest tickets at every club in the EPL.

    I dont know why some people are attacking those who point this out.

    Even if exceptions to the rule akin to Matts example are highlighted, and another club has season tickets in our stratosphere, does that make it all right?

    Some will go to very unsual lengths to attack posters they inherently disklike.

    Hunter13 PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND. REPEAT, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND. AND PLEASE REFRAIN FROM DIRECTLY POSTING TO ME. EVER. THANK YOU.

  452. Dupsffokcuf, I read that it was a young Norwich team, but I’m sure that getting a competitive game, scoring goals and winning whatever the circumstance is always good for the confidence of a football player.

  453. Very entertaining game just finished – would LOVE any of Napoli’s front 3 are the Gooners.

  454. hmmm chelsea no win in last 5 games …..

    ha!, and arsenal fans go and give shit to wenger?

    would they like to see what chelsea has invested and what arsenal has in first team the last 6 years before complaining to our manager?

  455. Luke | February 21, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    lol..who are you again ?

  456. @ Luke

    What isnt a debate is that our cheapest ticket is much much much more expensive than the cheapest tickets at every club in the EPL.

    … except at Liverpool, whose cheapest tickets are more expensive.

  457. PG

    I’ve read through all your posts today and once again they are full of agressive abuse and viritrol.

    You are the consistent of ACLF. Consistently wrong, consistently abusing, consistently highlighing people as liars when indeed its you who is the liar.

    Oh, and wind your neck in with the Cesc abuse. Your way off the mark. When he returns to the Emirates, he will get a heros welcome.

    In the last week I have seen you attack Fabregas relentlessly AGAIN, and have seen you try devalue Henry’s return last week. I really do wonder if you are even a fan of the football club.

    Hunter13 – I am someone who never wants to be engaged by you. I genuinely mean this. I wont respond to anything you write.

  458. Hunter13 – I am someone who never wants to be engaged by you. I genuinely mean this. I wont respond to anything you write.

    its ok …it happens to a lot of people who meet me…… when the going gets tough they put on their skirts and hop around …. 😉

    be scared….lol…

    boo !

  459. @JD
    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Our form, mental frailities aside, is a reflection of the fact, that the league has gotten more competitive. It’s an old cliché, but there really aren’t any easy games any more. A couple of seasons ago you’d have to worry about playing one of the top teams and losing to anyone else was always a bit of a shock. Nowadays it’s kind of normal that even the likes of Swansea, Wolves, Norwich etc. can go around and deliver the odd giant killing or grind out a result.

    @Hunter 13
    Congratulations, mate. You wound up one of the more negative posters on here to the point he plain out refuses to communicate with you. If you manage to get Muga and Jabba to that point, I might have to build you a small statue on my balcony!

  460. Regardless, its a very pedantic view in avoiding the key point.

    We pay extorinate ticket prices, to sustain a business model built on 49% matchday revenue, see the wage bill drastically increase every year, the results and performance on the pitch are negatively inverted to wage expenditure, tickets go up, best players leave, no major signings are made, repeat.

  461. @ Jabba you are wrong. Ofc we can afford it. You may not like it, but it will happen. That’s how the club will do it. Regardless of what you think or not. Deal with it man.

  462. Evil

    If you require a crazed deluded village idiot to fight your fights then god have mercy on your soul! 😉

    Besides, that was PG’s role……..

  463. Anyway – night

    Have to take my horribly simplistic black and white persona to bed, so I can wake up fresh for my horribly simplistic black and white meeting at 730 tomorrow morning.

  464. @Luke
    If you do not want to communicate with Hunter 13, maybe you should stop talking about him? 😉 You don’t really want to have to call on your mummy to check if he’s hiding under your bed again, do you?

  465. @ Luke

    Using the data from the article which you referenced:

    Arsenal: £951 for 26 matches = £36.58 per match
    Liverpool: £725 for 19 matches = £38.16 per match

  466. Evil | February 21, 2012 at 10:37 pm

    😉 easy ….

    and from a personal point of view….an absolute pleasure 🙂

  467. @ Luke

    Regardless, its a very pedantic view in avoiding the key point.

    We pay extorinate ticket prices, to sustain a business model built on 49% matchday revenue, see the wage bill drastically increase every year, the results and performance on the pitch are negatively inverted to wage expenditure, tickets go up, best players leave, no major signings are made, repeat.

    The Emirates is – in my opinion – the best football ground in the country. The ticket prices are not cheap, but they are not extortionate. The wage bill does not drastically increase every year, and the results and performance on the pitch are not negatively inverted to wage expenditure. As has been said many times before, we punch at or above our weight in terms of money spent on wages. Now, if you were making the point that perhaps some of the money could be better spent, that would be a different story…

    What is your key point? Did you read Yogi’s post today or the AST report? Roughly £54m spent on transfers out of roughly £66m received. And we have a stadium to pay for!

  468. billy please be gentle…dont make it so obvious or the umnetioned and disengaged will feel he got hit by a hammer.

    liverpool ticket prices higher than arsenals?

    you sure about that? 😉

    no it cant be …to hell with mathematics…what did they ever prove anyway….

  469. Luke – will Fabregas REALLY get a heroes’ welcome if he ever again shows his face round here?

    Are you SURE?

    This is a guy who signed up to the security of a long-term contract in the knowledge AW was building a team around him having lapped up, over many years, the best coaching in world football.

    As Brian Clough would almost certainly have said – he let himself down, he let his manager down and he let his club down.

    I don’t think he’s a c*nt, just a kid who allowed himself to have his head turned in the aftermath of a glorious World Cup campaign.

    But a hero?

    I don’t think so.

    The sad thing for me is I always previously admired his conduct off the pitch as much as on it – he was thoughtful, erudite and charming and is now completely wasted on the charlatans he joined last summer in a league where he’ll only ever play a handful a genuinely competitive games each season.

    He was so much better than all of that.

    He actually could have become a real hero.

  470. Oh dear, I missed Luke before he had to put his lights out.

    If I may say so Hunter – great work today, all day.

    Admirable, in fact.

  471. Thank you for the link, FunGunner. Nice to read some positive news for a change!

  472. Luke is a liar.
    Why are people talking to a liar?

    Hunter,Luke is a liar you know.
    He will accuse you of saying stuff you never have and the to to busy to prove his claims.
    He is an idiot as well.
    And know nothing about football.
    And Cesc is no hero is he? is he? is he?

  473. @ hunter 13 | February 21, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    Yes re Liverpool, surprising, isn’t it? As Matt pointed out previously, the comparisons typically ignore that the Arsenal season tickets include the first seven FA Cup and European matches as well as the nineteen league matches.

    To be fair, the number of matches isn’t listed in the article, but it’s not hard to find.

  474. I thought I had been very polite to people today.

  475. Billy’s Boots | February 21, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    kindly, dont forget to use cotton when treating the patient’s traumas.

    class AA…constant class all of your posts ..im a big fan… if not for this manager and after what he;s done …then for who?

  476. And Cesc is no hero is he? is he? is he?

    hahahah ..well he was my hero in san siro a couple of years ago …lol….thats for sure..but unfortunately expecting him to commit his career at arsenal was always a stretch…very sad and disappointed he didnt stick until he repaid manager;s faith with a trophy…….BUT…he wasnt with us so….take the money and run ..as the song goes.

  477. Nice job, gentlemen. Good night!

  478. Reading the AST report was interesting and when you ready that shirt and manufacturing agreements net Arsenal around 14 million per season versus an estimated market value of 40 million cannot help but wish 2014 was here faster! We all knew the contracts in place were conservative, I just hope that Arsenal get closer to market values come renewal.

    I am not taking a shot at anyone at the Arsenal, but I am worried about how we are going to shift some of the contracts currently on our books.

  479. Cesc was a great player for sure, but he will never go down as an Arsenal great due to when/how he left. I don’t think he will get boo’d in the way Adebayor and Nasri did, but I don’t think he will be given a hero’s recetpion either. I suspect it will be mixed.

    He was very very good for the club and often dragged us through games when we were struggling. For that he will be remembered fondly. He never led the team to anything significant though; how can he be remembered as a great?

  480. Free Gainsburg69 YW!
    I miss him

  481. Are we to become a society of jibberers, middle of the roaders and booers? No, say I. Free L’artiste Gainsbourg69.

  482. Frank, sadly I think his continuing absence is self-imposed and I fear we have seen the last of him here.

  483. Arsenal Andrew

    Fabregas is the most important player to Barca bar Messi at present. He starts every major game, at the club he loves, his whole family is associated to, his friends who he grew up with play at. We always knew he was leaving.

    Cesc signing that contract meant we should have been able to demand a higher fee, much like United and Ronaldo, but we bent over.

    We ignored Fabregas’ and other senior players calls for serious recruitment to be made. Year after year, Fabregas would statisically be in our top two performers, he would win us games, and season after season he had to watch the usual suspects make mistake after mistake in what should have been routine wins.

    He gave this club nearly a decade of dedicated and exceptional service. He left us with a broken heart to join the only club he loves more than the Arsenal. I wish him every success, and will sing my little heart out if the maestro ever returns, which he has said he wants to do.

    It was an absolute pleasure to watch him. Arsenal Football Club will be talking about Fabregas and his quality for decades.

    His service and talent is forever etched in our history. Its a shame he was left to carry a team, augmented with only a handful players of his ilk.

    Its a shame he never got to play in a great Arsenal team.

  484. Evil – ha, yes. My girlfriend had to use my 6-iron to prove Hunter13 wasnt in the spare room or under the bed.

    I slept veeeery well last night!

  485. Luke, is your girlfriend Craig Bellamy?!

  486. When I tell her that I’m missing her best friends engagement drinks in the country so I can over indulge in sporting and gambling fun this weekend, she might well be!

    Fri – poker night
    Sat – Twickenham
    Sun – Gooners

    Peeeeeeeeeeeeeerfect.

  487. No, he won’t be freed. He is barred.

  488. Just wait till Hunter 13 meets Sprectum # 1. I see a film in there somewhere, not a good one either, but the kind you have to watch. On telly. Until the wee hours. With another cup of tea. Even though you’re tired and don’t like telly. It’s a rip-roaring premise. Poster: “They met on a blogsite. Football fans from the same team. And agreed to meet later at a pub, somewhere on the wrong side of London” (have to say something like that for American audiences). A romantic or at least female element perhaps? “She pleaded with them not to do it. She knew she had to go.” A sub-plot. “Nobody had seen his face before (YW), until tonight”. A sub-sub plot. “On the night of the of North London derby, vengeance, tears of joy, a hero emerges in a game that will change the fate of a team”.

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