Meltdown & Scapegoats Ahoy On Rough Arsenal Seas

About the only thing which has not appeared in this morning’s papers is the broken cannon motif, so beloved of sub-editors when Arsenal are perceived to be in crisis. Perhaps it would be more apt if they inserted the skull and crossbones onto the club crest to signal the mutiny – even though the historical assumption that the Jolly Roger is purely a piratical ensign is utterly incorrect. At any moment I am expecting Arsène to call to Robin van Persie, “This is mutiny Mr van Persie, mutiny“. To hear him mimic Charles Lawton might well be worth the entrance fee alone.

Reading the back pages, you sense that some are revelling in the mayhem whilst others think that we are all idiots. The latter is possibly a hangover from being the chairman’s pet paper, David Woods in this morning’s Daily Star observes,

Centre-half Thomas Vermaelen is believed to have been angry to learn late on, with no briefing from Wenger, he was having to play left-back, after three weeks out with a calf strain.

Seriously, that is a direct lift from their website. I mean did Woods not realise that Vermaelen had played a dozen or so games in the position before being out. Does he really believe that it was a shock.  The village idiot is now employed gainfully.

As you know, I’ve been trawling through newspaper archives and my own scrapbooks for Arsenal On This Day but rarely have I come across such shoddy journalism.

It beggars belief but by the same token pretty much sets the tone for the morning. Robin van Persie’s declaration of loyalty and frustration is delivered in staccato form by The Sun, as if  Hill-Wood and Gazidis have donned hoods and are threatening to kill him unless he delivers a message of support for the manager.

The same thread carries across the media from tabloid to broadsheet, each emphasising the same thing; Arsène has the support of the squad, van Persie is loyal and it’s all the fault of Andrey Arshavin.

Reportedly – and given the veracity of some of the column inches this morning, a healthy dose of cynicism should be applied – the players held a clear-the-air team meeting in the aftermath of the defeat on Sunday. Many of these have been held down the years during Wenger’s reign, the players seeking to put right the wrongs on the pitch. At this, reportedly, Arshavin has been held to blame.

It strikes me as too convenient. Gary Neville accused the Russian of being disinterested, that comment interwoven with the displeasure displayed on Sunday appears to be the foundation of this all. Too many in society though seek out a cheap scapegoat, convenient because it allows a polarisation of dissent onto one subject but more often than not a deflection of individual failings onto another.

Let us not beat about the bush. If there was no injury then the manager got Oxlade-Chamberlain’s substitution wrong on Sunday. He admitted as much in the post-match press conference and we go from there. It is not a signal that he is losing the plot, God Knows there is enough evidence to suggest he has not.

That – and pinpointing Arshavin as the sole cause of the winning goal – is to ignore a simple fact: football is a collective game. One minute can lose a match with a goal. Ninety minutes in which you score less than your opponents tends to be more damaging in that respect.

Arsenal had their opportunities and failed to score. Robin van Persie arguably missed an easier chance than the one he did convert. And what of the defenders culpabilities in the first goal? Song had a distinctly average game and was as much to blame as Arshavin in the winner. Collective responsibility.

Much finger pointing is happening, as much a legacy of the season as one match.  It has been a poor campaign, the summer was not handled well and lessons must be learned from that with a recurrence this year entirely possible. The manager did not replace the players who departed quickly enough, arguably before Cesc left a replacement should have been signed or at the very least announced within a week of departure. That is an ideal world; we do not live in one and no-one on any internet board or forum knows exactly what went on, why the carnage was allowed to occur in the manner that it did.

One thing is for certain. There is no confidence in anything Arsenal any more. The reaction displayed firmly underlines that there is no sense of “We’re all in this together“. Which is hardly surprising when you view the state of world at the moment and the impact of wretched political and economic decisions on society.

The word support does not mean blind adulation; healthy and constructive criticism is actually a good thing, contrary to the opinion of some. At this moment, there is nothing healthy or constructive about much of the criticism being shown. Bowels are turning to water and a feeling of doom is being spread.

And the arguments go round and round. It’s a vicious circle, the only solution for which is apparently to spend. And sell, of course. In fact have the sort of firesale and panic buy for which derision was heaped in the summer.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on January 24, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 528 Comments.

  1. OK I will say it again….

    Arsenal fans are wrecking the club. They don’t enjoy football anymore. Winning is all. Worst supporters in the EPL. That drivel at 9.47am goes some way to proving it.

  2. It’s actually the perfect condemnation of today’s football fan. We should admire that AA has enough self-awareness and confidence in himself as a person to post something so self-critical.

    From a footballing point of view, it’s utter bollocks, of course.

  3. Frank, perhaps you can justify your statement?

  4. It is a little amusing how the doom and gloom brigade’s former poster boy, Arshavin, has now come to represent for them everything they think is wrong with the club.

  5. sorry YW, but AA23 hasnt been at the top of his game for some time. was he solely responsible for the goal we conceded? nope, but he was beaten so easily and all united had to do was to get the right players in the right areas, they did and they scored. is the loss solely his fault? nope, but he and Djourou contributed to it by their shoddy defending, RvP with a blooper.

  6. Getting over to the Emirates to see the Blackburn game (i’m from Northern Ireland) – Can’t wait to get back to winning ways! Let’s just concentrate ’til the end of the season and play to the standard that we know we’re capable of. We are the Arsenal!

  7. My view is that this shit starts and finishes with the ‘fans’. The media are happy to have a go at the club, and the fans provide the weapons on phone-ins, blogs and at the ground. Was a time when people showed up at the Arsenal Stadium to watch a game of football and support the team. Sadly that has gone west, along with knowledge and intelligence. The intelligence of the average Arsenal fan has plummeted in real terms over the last few years.

    I blame the parents, and education…and the police ….oh and lets not forget Cameron. Eton can go fuck itself too whilst we are at it.

  8. Acryllic Altair

    But wasn’t AA23 the marquee signing that you had craved for a few seasons ago? And still do?

  9. there in another solution clubs should start sueing papers bloggers who lie to undermine and dammage.

  10. Keysersoze | January 24, 2012 at 10:21 am,

    I dont believe in the marquee signing nonsense. just get the right players in, have the right numbers too. you do not have to spend big either. my question is why on earth is it that we always spend late, buy players when we absolutely have no choice after knowing what positions needed players.

  11. g clarke, dont be silly, you cannot sue people for having an opinion, however stupid it is.

  12. I,ve tended to give Acrylic the benefit of the doubt upto now. Perhaps behind the rhetoric there was the hint of a worthwhile point being made but that piece at 9.47 settled the matter.

    It really exposes the sort of ‘supporter’ who has a one dimensional view. Blinkered from seeing anything to do with the world as a whole, no sights, no sounds, other than the ‘winning post’.

    All the discussions about finance, the money doping, the conditions in which the Premier operates in a wider world. All consideration of the difficulties of the current campaign, any appreciation of this team and it’s manager. Ignored.

    It was I who said some fans want it, “Now, now, now, me, me, me”. His post sums up my point exactly although the irony of him using it to make his ‘point’ will be lost on him.

    Arsene has not been elevated to the status of a ‘god’. What drivel. Many of us on nhere have admitted that he drives us to distraction on occasions. Perfect? No. A brilliant manager, decent and honest. Yes.

    The sum total of the ‘support’ of the likes of Acrylic is to weaken our club. A joy to the media and our other ill wishers.

    Really, to praise that shower at Blackburn shows base ignorance and a contemptible approach to life, never mind football.

  13. acrylic, you might be interested to go back to yesterday’s post. left my comment there for you. but reply here.

  14. Lazy media, lazy supporters.

    Since Yogi is encouraging constructive criticism my feeling is that we need to get Vermaelen back in the middle alongside Koscielny. Not that Mertesacker isn’t performing, more that we need an out and out full-back on the left. As next to nobody has mentioned Vermaelen had a poor game at left back by his own high standards, playing a part in both United goals. Harsh I know but I’m sick of the boo-boys getting the criticism when they did little wrong and fan favourites being untouchable.

    Ah well, Villa in the cup then Bolton, Blackburn and Sunderland will be the perfect warm-ups for our biggest game of the season so far in Milan.

  15. YW – Excellent piece. Spot on as well.

  16. Markus,

    i agree that we need a proper leftback out there. i think if miquel plays on the left, vermaelen and koscielny in the middle would be the preferred partnership, because vermaelen can cover for miquel.

    but i think it is also important that we play a proper rightback. at the moment, i think yennaris is my choice ahead of djourou.

    people might want to know that yennaris isnt a specialist right back.
    http://www.arsenal.com/reserves-youth/players/nicholas-yennaris

    why are miquel and yennaris seemingly doing better than experienced players like vermaelen and djourou? perhaps it is because they are younger and aren’t as specialised yet.

  17. my question is why on earth is it that we always spend late, buy players when we absolutely have no choice after knowing what positions needed players.

    I am sure you believe that the answer to those questions is “just for the heck of it”.

  18. why are miquel and yennaris seemingly doing better than experienced players like vermaelen and djourou? perhaps it is because they are younger and aren’t as specialised yet.

    I don’t know, but may be their background has a role in it, having been at La Masia and/or London Colney from the age of 7.

  19. ..ok, i’m reloaded!

    but..why waste bullets on fairweather fans?
    If we win the next few matches they’ll be queing up to lick AW’s statue.

    We do have the “worst supporters” in the land of the EPL but the widest reach on today’s Earth.
    BLAME TECHNOLOGY for this “new” weakness in men
    The NOW generation

    d’you forget how hard it was to procure a naughty rag “back in those days”?
    one learnt to delay gratification & thus learnt patience
    unlike today.

    ..why waste the energy?
    Arsene’s going nowhere!

  20. “acrylic, you might be interested to go back to yesterday’s post. left my comment there for you. but reply here.”

    I’d prefer it if he stayed there.

  21. Really good post YW.

    I agree with CB & Frank.

  22. Don’t the club usually ask fans to vote for a man of the match after every game? I’m struggling to find it after Sunday.

  23. I think these “fans” are in a strange predicament. Many of them had jumped on to the successful bandwagon in early Wenger years. They have probably been arrogant as shit with their success culminating in the unbeaten season. Now, they don’t have an option to turn back as they are too far entrenched into supporting the club because all their playground/school/pub buddies know who they support. Hence their life is miserable. Arsenal’s lack of success has become an existential problem for them in the fight to recover the bragging rights they took for granted when they started supporting a successful club.

  24. Anyone who thinks AA23 has performed anything other than poor this season hasnt been watching Arsenal.His lack of effort in some games is unforgivable

    Ferguson knew that straight away and took off Raphael and put Valencia at RB because he knew AA23 would be no threat down the left.

    Wenger got it badly wrong lets not make excuses for him

  25. The current problems at Arsenal start with Wenger and end with him.Since 2005,he has takena futuristic approach snapping up wc kids and farming them out.it has not worked and he shows no sign of ditching his y project.The debacle by the red faced showed how far he had fallen and he reluctantly went a splurge before the window shut.In my view it was knee jerk reaction.
    He thinks he is always right. Well if the gunners don’t get the cl berth it could have a spiral effectt .I believe he shouldn’t be given any more time. Kids signed have been proven inadeqaute or not given enough playing time. It’s a waste of time.
    The writing is on wall and if there more defeats the clamour for his head will grow louder.

  26. I mean, however you might want to, it is just not easy to suddenly start supporting Man City. For that to be viable you need to discover a new social circle. So the next best thing is to rant and moan on internet forums, radio phone ins and in the stadium.

  27. Nice post Yogi,
    Here’s something else to consider. Perhaps those looking to blame fans are looking for easy scapegoats as well, and are no different to those stupidly blaming Arshavin or any other one player, for a game in which none of our players performed at their best (except perhaps Ox and Kos).

    In stadium support has been stellar for much of this season, so IF boos where indeed directed at the manager or AA, shouldn’t the more intelligent thing to do be to ask why such a remarkable change has occurred, rather than the lazy option of apportioning blame? After all RvP’s reported reaction wasn’t exactly exemplary either. If he can be excused and forgiven, why can’t the supporters. They are after all human and can be subject to stupid heat of the moment actions, can’t they?

    And if the boos weren’t directed at the manager, why blame the fans at all?

  28. In stadium support has been stellar for much of this season, so IF boos where indeed directed at the manager or AA, shouldn’t the more intelligent thing to do be to ask why such a remarkable change has occurred, rather than the lazy option of apportioning blame?

    In stadium support has largely been stellar as the teams form has also been stellar for much of the season so far. Only in tough times you get to see the true colours, it is very easy to swim with the wave on a calm day.

  29. consolsbob | January 24, 2012 at 10:33 am,

    Is the broken wage structure a problem?
    Is it better to pay players what they are worth or to pay them for potential?
    Are fans wrong to show their displeasure at the same mistakes being made year after year?
    Is it reasonable for the wage bill to go higher whilst the talent pool in the team goes lower?
    For people that pay (PAY) the salaries of these lot, is posing a question so wrong?
    For a club the size of arsenal, it it unreasonable that fans would want the team to win something?
    For a manager that so many have given their trust, is it unreasonable to have them say they think that some aspects of what he does are broken?

    Cbob, rather than constantly take pop shots, lets have a debate, share your side rather than always, always complain without backing it up.

    korihikage | January 24, 2012 at 10:34 am,

    Problem is that when you get a third choice CB, they have to be good enough to compliment the starters or give them a rest. we had the opportunity to get Smalling, but we wouldn’t pay a few extra on a fee that was vastly reasonable, we had to cut corners and we got what we deserved.

    Do i support the players? every one of them. but it gets hard to sometimes bear to see someone make mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake, year after year after year. some of these players have had enough chances than they would have had in any other top team yet the manager keeps trusting them.

    It doesnt help when you see AA23 put in the performances he puts in only for the manager to say how good he is. it doesnt help when you see Diaby put in the performances he puts in and you have a manager that says we will not buy anyone because he and Wilshere are coming back.

    It doesnt help when we need players to come in and you have a manager not bothered when it comes to strengthening. When Lehmann started to decline, we had the option of getting a new keeper at a reasonable fee, but they took the cheap route, gave Almunia a huge salary and decided all was ok.

    What good is having the numbers, overpaying those players and not having the quality?
    What use is it worth when you put trust in players that always come short?
    And what club in the world does dot have fans that show concern when all is not well?
    United fans have seen their club win it all, and i mean win it all, and they are never satisfied with their team. Arsenal has some fans who will forever be OK with the team regardless of results. the wage issue is something that has been known for years, so to has the strength is depth, and the need to buy players in certain areas.
    transfer windows are there for teams to improve themselves, and we dont seem to use them, the manager, doesnt even like the January transfer window.

    Sorry, we have had a great run, fatigue has maybe caught up with the players, and that’s expected with the players we have that are ever injured. can i forever excuse the same mistakes if i on a personal not dont see a need to change a broken system? personally, nope. but if someone else wants to, let them fell free.

    Pointing out issues, pointing out weak points, and showing frustration on this blog is taken as someone being myopic. i hear things like fans that question have been brought up wrong (pathetic view for anyone to have), makes you wonder if as parents some will be ok with kids mistakes. i wonder, how much we have to piss off in wages until we change the wage system. Henry left to win the CL with Barca, Nasri left to earn a bigger salary at City, and to win things, same as Clichy. Cesc took a pay cut to be at Barcelona………….how many big players would want to come to Arsenal to win things?

  30. Keysersoze,

    That is only true for life long supporters. Glory hunters have no problem changing clubs. How else do you explain most of the Chelsea fans you see around today? Many of them were surely supporting some other club before 2004. I personally know of a few who were former arsenal fans.

    I’ve also started seeing Man City jerseys around, and they haven’t won shit yet.

  31. Ok. Lets retrospect. Over the last 5 years, we have seen a steady decline in our ambitions. First, it was competing for the title. Then, place for no 3. Then for some years we were content with a 4th place finish and maybe a quater final slot in CL. There has been a steady decline in our ambitions. Today, we stand barely able to catch on to a 4th place finish.

    Many things have gone wrong at critical times. Retrospect is easy, but we have’nt learnt from our mistakes. For a top team, our defence is a joke. But the biggest thing nobody is realizing now is the future.

    You have to realize that footballers are not only employees of a club. Great ones, world class ones, want more…more glory. Largely, that after they turn 35, they retire or at best a shadow of their former selves, they have to learn to do something else. Either become a coach, commentator or a bar owner. And not everyone gets very lucky. They have a 12 – 15 year period to attain wealth and success. While most of us start getting something at 35, they are at the end of their career. illustrious but a faint memory compared to a new generation of players.

    So, they want to be remembered. And only winning teams are remembered. World class players want to be at the center of a world class squad, knowing that the squad plays a big part. So, while we may celeberate about the balance sheet and profits, do we actually about the players ambition. The club will continue to make money but the player will cease. I did not grudge Fabregas his choices. He has about 8 years more to achieve what he dreamt.

    Now, every place cannot be a winner. Everybody knows that. The problem is that we are fast becoming a club that is not recognized anymore for its potential to win. That has been a critical blow. A good players comes here to learn and practise his art and then move on. It is reflecting in the kind of players we are attracting now.

    I dont think we are the place for the best talent in England. That place is going to Man Utd or Tottenham for younger players. They got Bale we got Walcott. They got Modric and Lennon. Man Utd bloodied their own youngsters. Wellback is a few seasons away from being a top top striker. We loaned out Bendtner.

    For the ones that stayed. What impression are we giving them. What does Wilshere think when he practises. When his boss says we are fighting for the 4th around the same time every season ie december. Does he want to spend hsi life here or move to the champion sides of madrid or barca?

    Dont doubt it for a second. This fall from grace is hard attained and now i fear only a strategic reset by arsene and team is erquired.

  32. how many big players would want to come to Arsenal to win things?

    I say fuck them if they don’t. On an aside, did you start supporting Arsenal because they could win things?

  33. Wenger after signing should let him play in his natural position. By that I mean if is a forward
    paly him as a striker and not as a defender or md.I refer in particular Walcott and Ashvin. The Russian was signed as a striker but has been deployed as a winger.Remmber the four goals he scored against Liverpool.
    Yeah i know Wenger converted Lauren and Henry he failed with Wiltford.If Arsenal want the signings to be effective,Wenger must play them in their natural position..

  34. No Keysersoze,

    Have you forgotten our bad start to the season, on the back of a horrible summer? The support was even better then than when we started our patch of good form.

  35. Henristic

    I would venture to say that the Man City and Chelsea fans you are seeing now were lying low when their club didn’t win shit. They have dusted off/bought their shirts once the sugar daddies came in.

  36. dups, what time is the post?

  37. frank is ..frank

    well said

    i blame the fans too …they think arsenal was some real madrid prior to wenger and demand trophies from a team that is on a completely different set up than the set ups of the ones who win the titles.

    them fools cant realise that arsenal is going through a preiod of minimal investment in terms of first squad so as to expedit the repayment phase and keep as close as possible to the cretins with their shortcuts…..

    budgets do the talking …so thank fucking heavens we have a manager who can shock with budgets eqaul to peanuts in comparison to the rest

    sorry that he cant win the title of ferguson abramovic and mancini who spent 25m per position while wenger has to make do with kids and 1m purchases….trully sorry…. lol…

    as for the media..its exactly what i mean by wanting the club to have a spokesman to start slapping them xenophobic peasants with their keyboards…them nicholsons and crosses and all them tw@ts who think they can pass judgement to a professional of wenge;rs callibre…

    it is hillarious actually but very dangerous for arsenal…..the fans are cretins. muppets…disgraceful and ungrateful. the good and proper arsenal fans shoudl be the first to start kicking them bas tards out

    this excuse that we have a democracy and free speech is bollocks..democracy means that the public can decide who rules them in government not say and do whatever you wnat. arsenal is no state , arsenal is a company and as such has aims objectives targets and most of all margins.

    people prefer to look at an underachieveing manager who is keeping clubs money to build villas in honolulu while i see a manager overachieving and the rest needing to outspend him by millions to marginally defeat his eboues walcotts and almunias ……

    inside his own stadium , with his own players,w ith his own football…and the fact he does it for arsenal should make you bastards cry with goosebumps from ankles to ears …certainmly not boo like a bastard pratt complaining to his dad for a new playstation while dad has busted his 2ss to build the fucking house..

    altair and the rest of you muppets …no more being nice to muppets like you who abandon reason and the realities arsenal faces as a football club and dream about arsenal competing in the same way as united chelsea and city ……YOU NEVER HAD ANY MONEY AND IF YOU EVER FIND YOURSELF WITH MONEY ITS BACAUSE OF ARSENE …muppet….

    if he needs 15 years to do it safe then you as a fan who has been blessed with his football will shut the fuck up , deal with it and if you want to support… the stadium is there . if not ..stay the fuck away from arsenal…

    enough with you tw@ts ……we cnt talk abotu the samer things over and over again…either you get it or you dont…and the ones who dont get it are losers who live in fear ..well to fuck with yoru fears ..keep them for your closed and loved opnes…bust their b@lls …not ours..not arsenals. fuck off.

  38. If those ‘fans’ who want success now are fair weather fans, does it means those who believe the Prime minster isn’t doing his job properly are un patrotic?

  39. Henristic @11.09, perfect rebuttal

  40. It’s more troubling than just supporting a team because they might win trophies I’m afraid. When Real Madrid went through their second and most recent Galacticos spell the number of Real shirts about on the street would turn your stomach. People fucking love money and splurging it without ryhme or reason is seen as a good thing. That’s why City see increased shirt sales. It’s also why we’re in a global recession.

  41. Henristic @11.09, perfect! Spot on!!

  42. Keysersoze | January 24, 2012 at 11:14 am,

    Nope, in fact when i started, they werent winning anything. that doesnt excuse the fact that players want to win things, and want to be paid well while doing it. Alexis and Cesc both took pay cuts to go to Barca. Why? because they have a super team up there.

    The one player that took a pay but to come to arsenal, was Arteta, and that was to play in the CL. huge diference

  43. The New Invincibles

    YW

    I admire your blog, your commitment and loyalty to our great club.
    I too love the club very much, finally getting a season ticket in 2006 after a decade of waiting was one of my best days ever. I put my 11yr old son was on the waiting list the week he was born and he finally got in when he turned 8, sadly he doesn’t want to go anymore! He wants to support Citeh. Needless to say, I have said yes, as long as he also moves in with his friends next door.

    I am an “AKB”, in “Arsene I trust(ed)” but surely something is desperately wrong.
    I am not talking about results, but the quality of players that now wear our magnificient shirt…as FIRST TEAM regulars!

    Overmars, Viera, Petit, Bergkamp, Campbell, Pires, Kanu, Wiltord, Gilberto, Fabregas, Llunberg, even Adebayor have been replaced by players who we know (deep down) are a million miles away from the WORLD CLASS players Wenger got us accustomed to.

    We knew Ashley cole and Fabregas would be world class from their first season, just as we know young Jack Wilshere is destined for greatness.

    Wallcot, Ramsey, Djorou, Diaby, Vela, Bendtner, Chamakh, Squillaci, Almunia, Fabianski will never be world class. They’ve had time to show it. Arteta, Benayoun, Mertesacker are at best OK/Good ..but Jenkinson, Park… in our first team???

    My problem is, 2-3 years ago I thought I understood what AW was trying to achieve, with the young team, especially in the wake of building a shiny new (world class) stadium., Now I have no idea… He does not convince me with any of his actions or words anymore and yet I’m one of his biggest fans.

    Perhaps you can help me YW…. what do you think AW is trying to do?
    I hope you or someone else knows. Sometimes I wonder if even “Arsene knows” 😦

    See you all on Sunday.

    Ade

  44. @shahr

    “The current problems at Arsenal start with Wenger and end with him”.

    Sorry would that be the problem of having the best training facilities in the country, the best stadium, the best pitch, the best bank balance, the club’s best trophy haul under one manager, the 14 consecutive years in the champions league, the best player in the league (RVP), the best defender in the country and arguably Europe (Kos), or the problem of having the best young talent base in the country which ensures we are stable and ‘future-proofed’ long after he leaves??????????????

    The only real problem is, Wenger raised expectations here so much, that pathetic monkeys like you, deranged on a misguided, deluded culture of entitlement, spearhead discontent amongst the masses. A good number of whom are ungrateful ignorant, know-it-all cunts in thrall to tabloid stirring.

    You disgust me.

  45. “Cbob, rather than constantly take pop shots, lets have a debate, share your side rather than always, always complain without backing it up.”

    Debate? Where in your post is any suggestion of a debate. No, all you do is regurgitate the same trite nonsense some fans have been saying for years.

    Sorry Henristic. Maybe it’s different in the States but booing your team, player or manager is just wrong. Always.

    No room to wriggle – unless he’s just pissed on the scarf.

  46. Shahr:

    sure, wenger leaves, and arsenal are treble winners.

    managed by Shahr the great of course.

    at least Wenger has the guts to stay and fight.

    really, he doesnt need to stay and put up with all the nonsense. he could easily pack up and leave. but he wants to stay and fight. maybe he knows he has screwed up at some point in time. but rather than just ditching the ship, he has chosen to stay and make things right.

    i salute him for that, and that is why i am backing this team.

    because i really can’t see myself ditching this ship as well.

    but you still can. you know. you really can.

  47. You too ‘plastic altar’.

  48. Sorry YW rogue italics. My bad.

  49. Acryllic Altair | January 24, 2012 at 10:19 am watch the game again Song was beaten the same way so please refrain from picking on one person

  50. Jonny’s fucked up again.

    Good post but the parentheses…

  51. cesc_ara
    people prefer to look at an underachieveing manager who is keeping clubs money to build villas in honolulu while i see a manager overachieving and the rest needing to outspend him by millions to marginally defeat his eboues walcotts and almunias ……

    inside his own stadium , with his own players,w ith his own football…and the fact he does it for arsenal should make you bastards cry with goosebumps from ankles to ears
    ————————————————————————————————————–
    dude we just got tonked by swansea not by packing the bus but playing brillant football.
    We also got out played by fulham.

  52. Cbob, and yet you haven’t answered a single question i posed. seems to be something consistent with you.

  53. let me just say something:

    if you don’t defend the team, no one is going to. the media won’t. utd fans won’t. spuds won’t. city and chelsea don’t even have fans.

    everyone is waiting to tear us apart.

    so if you as an arsenal fan don’t stand up for the team, who is going to?

  54. Have you forgotten our bad start to the season, on the back of a horrible summer? The support was even better then than when we started our patch of good form.

    Really? I can distinctly remember taht their was huge furore about the club going down the drain. It even continued into October when the new signings had just started settling in. Santos, who is now a hero, was ridiculed by our fans for being overweight and generally not good enough for them.

  55. Clay | January 24, 2012 at 11:28 am, and yet with AA23, defensive cock ups are a norm.

  56. if you don’t defend the team, no one is going to. the media won’t. utd fans won’t. spuds won’t. city and chelsea don’t even have fans.

    Actually being a visitor to a few other general football forums some Chelsea, United
    and even Spurs fans do a better job of defending our team than some of our so called supporters.

  57. and yet with AA23, defensive cock ups are a norm.

    Well, so what. Since he is wearing the red and white he is our player. If he is a fool he is our fool. If he is a has been he is our has been. If he is a bad defender he is our defender. These are lines no supporter should cross.

  58. korihikage | January 24, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Well said, i support the team, just that there aspects that i find hard to stomach these days.

    Many people have the same qualms, why they are often confused, is beyond me

  59. i hear things like fans that question have been brought up wrong

    it depends what you question and for what reason

    would you ever question ross braunn in f1 strategy ?

    would you ever question schummacher;s driving?

    would you ever question raul and ronaldo (original) scoring ability ?

    would you ever question ronaldinho dribbling ability?

    would you ever question the champion spirit of a zidanne or a seedorf ?

    would you ever question the manager who with 15m budgets competes against teams with 150+ m budgets and marginally misses on trophies?

    FUCK NO to all of the above.

    but if you want to question whether the incentives of the media to present us a club in crisis are genuine or fake you can do so cause in this subject there is a conflict of interests and a conflict in the pereceptions of how football clubs should be run and how football should be played.

  60. I love this squad and will turn out rain or shine to cheer them on. They have it tough sometimes but they get my backing all the way. The ability of the youngsters coming through is awe-inspiring. matters not a jot that no-one else has noticed. I would pay my money twice over to see how they get on in each game and thats all that matters to me. No other manager in the EPL could support these youngsters in the way that AW does….and that is more than good enough for me. Very exciting.

    There isn’t a player in the squad that I don’t empathise with at the moment. We will prevail no matter how long it takes or how many arsehole fans we lose on the way. If I were younger I would knee drop every cowardly man jack of those who booed at the ground on Sunday. I mean that most sincerely.

  61. On July 11 last year, Arsene Wenger said this: “Imagine the worst situation — we lose Fabregas and Nasri. You cannot convince people you are ambitious after that.”
    ——————————————————————————————————–
    that is for all those who think its sacrilage to question a manager who hasnt won a trophy in 7 years

  62. dude we just got tonked by swansea not by packing the bus but playing brillant football.
    We also got out played by fulham.

    dude that happens because our players are not “killers” yet …not because wenger is a cr@p manager neither because our football is wrong. its 100% player related.

    well there is a logical explanation for that too ….

    if you want players who will WIN no matter what …naturally youre gonna have to pay for them…and the rates for those players are at a level which is a no go for arsenal. therefore the WINNERS , them ultimate fuckers who step in the pitch and take no prisoners cost money which are out of arsenal;s scope. as such arsenal has to cultivate this winning spirit in the players they scout and develop. players like vermaellen have it allready..players liek song and walcott dont have it. vermaeeln was the ajax captain and cost 10m…song was an african in bastiah that cost 1m, walcott was a kid that was fast where the club gambled with for 5 m plus additions in case he hit the appearances clauses..

  63. i would question a manager that pays players salaries for future potential. United can get rid of any player they do not want because players are paid for current performances. if you do great, you get a pay rise, if you dont you dont get one or you are sold.

    They have gotten rid of O’Shea, Brown, Obertan, Gibson, Manucho amongst others with relative ease. the players, first team players we easily get rid off just happen to be our best performers. teams were in for both Denilson and NB52, they couldn’t get them because of wage demands.

  64. Lets all unite under one banner,’we want the best.’ that means feeling disgruntled if the team loses 3 straight matches including one to swansea who completely outplayed us with a pack of average players

  65. Alright. Now i can have my say. Things havent been well at Arsenal for a very long time now as eveidenced by 6 barren seasons. But I very much would have prefered that arsenal were sitting at 16th on the table rather than fighting a start stop battle for 4th. The reason being that when a system being employed is mediocre some entities in that system will persist with the status quo. However when it fails then a rethink is required. There is mediocrity in the arsenal structure and that’s costing us at a time we should be striving for excellency…there are those that believe that if it aint broken why fix it. And it is those that think like this that are in our beloved clubs hierachy.
    And because this system hasnt yet collapsed it will persist. Until then arsenal will continue to be a club in decline. Its sad but that’s how i interpret things at arsenal fc.
    The sooner that this system collapses then the better it is for arsenal and all involved. Till then hang in there gooners.
    Catastrophy has to strike first and then endured before we can rise to the top again. It will be hard but we will emerge out of it the better side than we currently are.

  66. would you ever question the manager who with 15m budgets competes against teams with 150+ m budgets and marginally misses on trophies?
    —————————————————————————————————–
    Marginally misses out??
    em we have a bigger budget than birmingham city.
    We lost a cc final to Chelsea cos our manager was more interested in showing the world that his boys could win than actually winning hence he dropped Arshavin to the bench.
    We lost a F.A cup quarter final to a united team that put out 7 defenders

  67. The main problem at the Emirates these days is the inability of certain players such as Arsha
    vin,Walcott,Ramsey to pick their game up when needed to ,so how many goals have Walcott
    Arshavin and Ramsey scored amongst the three of them since the beginning of the season
    last year August,therein lies the problem,not enough goalscorers specifically from midfield wi
    th both Ramsey and Wilshere incapable of getting goals on a consistent basis for Arsenal,one
    can blame the defence but it,s the midfield that continuously loses the ball, Ramsey the main
    culprit ,so when,s the coaching staff going to wake up and make the necessary changes to the Arsenal midfield ,Ramsey in particular ?

  68. that is for all those who think its sacrilage to question a manager who hasnt won a trophy in 7 years

    Problem is not with questioning (as long as it isn’t inside the stadium). Problem is the steadfast refusal to accept or acknowledge perfectly reasonable answers to the questions.

  69. We lost a cc final to Chelsea cos our manager was more interested in showing the world that his boys could win than actually winning hence he dropped Arshavin to the bench.

    Huh! I am sure you were equally incensed about Arshavin coming on last Sunday?

  70. Keysersoze | January 24, 2012 at 11:51 am

    SHOCK. sorry, but what big team would have a manager not win for so long and have fans be OK? at some point in time, that frustration comes out, sometimes in public. that is the way life is.

  71. SHOCK. sorry, but what big team would have a manager not win for so long and have fans be OK? at some point in time, that frustration comes out, sometimes in public. that is the way life is.

    None today, because fans of all big teams, like some of ours, are the same petulant, spoiled, gutless lot. That doesn’t make it right, you know.

  72. Anyway, I am off for now. Have a field day.

  73. If only every fan was like you Frank!

    The team has had it tough…. Various injuries in the same positions, lack of confidence in our attacking players, most notable Theo and Arshavin who have had the crowd on their back from the beginning of the season.. then you have players playing out of position to compensate: Vermaelen, Djourou, Miguel, Ramsey even is playing a different role to what hes use to.

    We battled well against Utd in the 2nd and that for me is all that matters, not to goal they scored while they were on top. You don’t win every game, especially against Utd when various 1st teamers are out. The 2nd half brought about a big high then the lowest of lows in terms of morale. The game was there for the taking, we had the momentum and even played the better football over the 90mins you can argue. But United is united, they have the organization and mentality that sees them through.

    We should take it as encouragement, we narrowly lost to both Manchester clubs, we beat Chelsea, was unlucky against Spurs (another wonder goal!) , so the only thing left to do is support, stay united, and win some games…

    That is football. Those who can’t handle the lows shouldn’t be around. I have the greatest respect for Wenger for putting his neck on the line every time we go through a patch like this. He never hides, and many men would have walked long ago. Great manager, and a great man in charge of what use to be a great support.

  74. Keysersoze | January 24, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    So, let me get this, the fans are spoiled because the big team they support has overpaid players who underachieve and a manager who for all his brilliance insists on the broken system he has had the past 6 seasons and doesnt seem like he wants to change it?

    I would like to see the names dished out when fans start being unreasonable. i really would

  75. HOW can anyone blame our wages!!! Look at Tottenham! they PAY less, still they play really great with decent players.

    Its not the wage, it it was the wage structure then tottenhmah would never be top 4. Simple as. They have shown that you dont have to pay the top players sick money. Bale and VdV wont leave the club,not now. Not with CL footy…

    So get lost with the Wage structure shit, as again Tottenham has proved that you can play great footy and be title contender withouth having a single player on more than 80k a week….

  76. Acryllic Altair

    Nothing is broken. Just accept we have not been good enough due to what ever the reason. Feel greatful we have a manager who knows what hes doing and isn’t easily manipulated by the media like certain sections of the Arsenal fans. A lot of football left to play, and quite a few ‘broken’ players to come back.

  77. “SHOCK. sorry, but what big team would have a manager not win for so long and have fans be OK? at some point in time, that frustration comes out, sometimes in public. that is the way life is”.

    LIVERPOOL no trophies for 5 years – where is the all-consuming media campaign there?

    How has the change of manager benefited them as a club?

  78. Alright. Now i can have my say. Things havent been well at Arsenal for a very long time now as eveidenced by 6 barren seasons. But I very much would have prefered that arsenal were sitting at 16th on the table rather than fighting a start stop battle for 4th. The reason being that when a system being employed is mediocre some entities in that system will persist with the status quo. However when it fails then a rethink is required. There is mediocrity in the arsenal structure and that’s costing us at a time we should be striving for excellency…there are those that believe that if it aint broken why fix it. And it is those that think like this that are in our beloved clubs hierachy.
    And because this system hasnt yet collapsed it will persist. Until then arsenal will continue to be a club in decline. Its sad but that’s how i interpret things at arsenal fc.
    The sooner that this system collapses then the better it is for arsenal and all involved. Till then hang in there gooners.
    Catastrophy has to strike first and then endured before we can rise to the top again. It will be hard but we will emerge out of it the better side than we currently are

  79. @Acryllic Altair you would question anybody with economical sense in footy.
    How many players with 3-4 year contracts do you think you will get for 60M?

    What top top top players will you today get for that price?
    Hazard as an example will be 30M in fee pluss 5 year contract of 120k a week?
    IF buy him this summer, can you afford anyone els? Can you afford to renew the contracts of Song, RvP and Walcott ?remember they will all be 50k + a week players… on 3-5 year contracts…

  80. How have the changes of manager benefited them as a club?

  81. Cbob,

    I’m not saying its right to boo, far from it. I’m saying we shouldn’t blame the booers for the loss (you haven’t done that, but some have) any more than we blame Arshavin or Song’s mistakes in the last goal.

    Especially considering these aren’t serial booers we are talking about. These guys have been there for the team before now.

    Keysersoze,
    Trust me, these guys were not man city fans at all.

  82. my advice to some of the fans

    go and support another team and come back when we are champions again. even if we don’t win any trophy ever again, you don’t have to come back either. you can gloat at us with your new team. seriously, it’s all right.

  83. Jttinashe Dench, you suffering from Alzheimer’s, son?

  84. Poodle… Bale, Modric, Van Der Vart and many of their better players would leave instantly if Real or Barca came calling. There is no thought needed for some of them. Our foreign players grow a bond with the club at least.

    …and some were pissed with Fab for going back to his boyhood club. pffttttt

  85. liverpool no PL trophy for 20 years!!!! yet everyone thinks they do great. Most people even think “carroll will come good thus was a graet buy!”.
    Nobody slaughetring them for Carrol buy. people laugh at them yes, but nobody really critizises them….

    When people say Arsenal live on past glory. Liverpool have not won the PL for two generations!(remembe one ggeneration is 10 years)!! talk about living on past glory!

  86. Concerned gooner

    The reason Spurs have become better than us is partly because they failed to make it into the top 4 last season, so they fought hard to keep their best players and added quality to their squad. I believe that we need to finish outside the top 4(certainly, i guess) or top 6(possibly). Maybe that will make us do our best to improve the squad and keep RVP at all cost. Playing in the UCL consistenlty for the past 14 years must have made us complacent and AW now believes that even if we buy only average players, we’ll still end up in Champions league places.

  87. @chrisgoona ofc but what play would not? Not very many players today would turn down Barcelona or Real madrid. Except for brits that are just not suited to live abroard….

  88. korihikage

    Only if they fuckked off. What a morale boost it would be for some players.

    The directors and shareholders won’t be too pleased when matchday revenue drops, but fuck it. I’d rather 40,000 went to the game.

  89. @Jttinashe Dench!!! “Its sad but that’s how i interpret things at arsenal fc”.

    Well at least you got one thing right.

  90. Nice blog but I don’t like the general tone of the bloggers:

    1) If you question Wengers decisions then you are not a true fan (I thought it was the club that was to be supported through thick and thin)

    2) If you want Arsenal to win trophy’s then you are spoilt (how exactly does that work???)

    I will always love my club whether we lose, draw or win but that doesn’t stop me from wanting the best for Arsenal. Therefore if I am critical of the management or of the players that doesn’t mean i don’t love the club.

    Gunner til I die

  91. Actually I don’t agree with that, Henristic. The atmosphere generated by some in the crowd when OXO came off and AA came on was utterly dispiriting, probably for the entire team. Not surprising that the mancs scored. They must have wondered what they had done to deserve such a gift. I was just a spectator in the stadium and it totally ruined the game for me.

  92. Keyser,
    “Really? I can distinctly remember taht their was huge furore about the club going down the drain. It even continued into October when the new signings had just started settling in. Santos, who is now a hero, was ridiculed by our fans for being overweight and generally not good enough for them.”

    I was referring to in stadium support, not meaningless le-grove chatter. Support during games (home and away) was great during our difficult start, despite the media storm that went beforehand.

  93. Poodle

    The appeal would still be there of course. I just don’t think they would be able to get up and leave as easily as their players could. Spurs practically handcuffed Modric to the goal post last summer right up until the last second of the transfer window.

    He will be off in the summer if he gets his wish. Hes playing himself into a Flamini style move.

  94. Frank

    I can’t imagine what the players would have thought. 1-1 playing well, and pushing for a second for the crowd to go ape shit.

    It was unbelievable. As disappointed as i was seeing the Ox go off I was shocked more so with the supporters. No wonder the press love writing shite about us, we provide the ammunition.

  95. What sort of person aspires to be one of the accusing wretches in Salem, or one who bays for blood at a hanging, or wants to be one of the screamers at a beheading, needs to throw stones at a head poking out of the ground, has the conviction of one of the townsfolk in High Noon, turns up to boo at the manager and players at an Arsenal match? Surrounded by the fuckers on Sunday. Doesn’t get lower than that.

  96. Poodle | January 24, 2012 at 12:10 pm,

    It is those wages we pay that hold us down when it comes to dispatching players that dont deliver. Who will ever pay Almunia what he earns at Arsenal? Denilson? Diaby? NB52? we cannot sell because there is almost no single club that will pay them those wages even if they were interested. had their wages been lower and in line with their performances, had the manager not put so much trust in them giving them chance after chance to redeem themselves, we might have had better competition in the team, and brought in other players. the main reason as to why we spend so little in transfers is because we throw away a lot of it on players who are yet to come good.

    chrisgoona | January 24, 2012 at 12:12 pm,

    we have a broken system, end off.
    Darron Gibson was sold to Everton once he regained fitness, we still have Denilson and Diaby.
    Manucho ws sold off after several bad appearances, we still have NB52. after four years of waiting, we have got a good CB combination at the back, four years. How many years have we waited to get a good GK? how many years have we waited to get that extra midfielder that could compliment Cesc, and how much longer must we wait to replace Cesc, a player we knew would be leaving 3 years ago?

    Nothing has changed because we were still making top 4, and AW rather than strengthen in this january window has chosen to go on and say we will depend on the players coming back. do i see us making fourth? i dont know. Chelsea will try and clean up their act, and it doesnt look like we will catch Spurs. we need to match Chelsea game for game when they win, score more and capitalize every time they drop points. it could happen, but that is a longshot.

    Nothing broken? SMH

  97. Frank,
    But according to Passenal, the booing wasn’t even directed at Wenger or Arshavin. Even if they were, how does that affect the other players on the pitch? Consider that people differ on whom the booing was directed at, how could the players have been sure enough to feel dispirited? The boos could concievably have been directed at the ref after all.

  98. Poodle | January 24, 2012 at 12:14 pm,

    I have never said we should get this or that player, my argument has always been that we should spend within our means and that is why i was somewhat unhappy that we could not get either Smalling or Alvarez when they were offered at reasonable fees.
    Do we need Hazard, Gotze, M’Villa or any other overpriced player that there is out there? Nope, and i have never thought so. there are enough quality players out there that we could get, and that could deliver.
    The point i was making, is the fact that we are no longer a club that big players want to come to, and that signifies the club we have become. we are not contenders to win anything yet we claim to be one of the biggest clubs in the world……………..that is a reality that people have to accept but most here are unwilling to.

    korihikage | January 24, 2012 at 12:15 pm,

    So, let me get this, only fans that have a positive outlook, fans that couldn’t care less about what they feel, deserve to be AFC fans? What a blinkered view

  99. fanboy

    i think you got it wrong.

    everyone wants arsenal to win trophies.

    you will find that many here have questioned the substitution and didnt get heckled for it.

    Shahr | January 24, 2012 at 11:04 am

    The current problems at Arsenal start with Wenger and end with him.Since 2005,he has takena futuristic approach snapping up wc kids and farming them out.it has not worked and he shows no sign of ditching his y project.The debacle by the red faced showed how far he had fallen and he reluctantly went a splurge before the window shut.In my view it was knee jerk reaction.
    He thinks he is always right. Well if the gunners don’t get the cl berth it could have a spiral effectt .I believe he shouldn’t be given any more time. Kids signed have been proven inadeqaute or not given enough playing time. It’s a waste of time.
    The writing is on wall and if there more defeats the clamour for his head will grow louder.

    it is because many post stuff like this.

  100. chrisgoona

    yup, we are providing the ammunition.

  101. Frank, Jonny, Cbob,Keyser, we need more fans like you especially during this tough stretch. it has been totally disgusting around here in the last few weeks but it is good to see some cool heads around.

    It hurts that we have lost three straight games and that the manager and the team may have made mistakes along the way but to slaughter the team and the manager like it has happened is just wrong!!!

    We are arsenal, we have been through worse and I am sure we will prevail!!!

  102. That was a pretty pathetic response, Henristic. Might have expected better even from you.

  103. Can’t believe anyone would defend the booing. Heat of the moment mob mentality is one thing, but to try and justify it now is sickening. I know I felt sick listening to it.

    Let’s not get our panties in a bunch and see see where we are in 3 games.

    Tottenham – Wigan (H), Liverpool (A), Newcastle (H)
    Chelsea – Swansea (A), Man U (H), Everton (A)
    Arsenal – Bolton (H), Blackburn (A), Sunderland (H)

  104. acrylic

    you think i don’t care? that i don’t feel the pain and disappointment?

    i couldnt sleep for 3 nights after the swansea game.

    we just know that our team is going through a really difficult season. there are many scars. we are really wounded.

    if you have a mate who is down, who is going through very bad times. do you really think you are helping him by telling him: Oh. this is simple. do this. do that. change your life.

    do you really think that helps?

    be there for him. encourage him. believe in him. i think that is more helpful.

  105. Has anybody committed suicide yet ?

  106. You are not a fan, Acrylic thingy. You are just a wind up merchant. You are going to have to do a lot more to demonstrate your credentials and to prove that you have the same information at your fingertips as the manager before people like me even entertain the idea that you might have even a marginal point to make. Same goes for the rest of your ilk.

  107. As an Arsenal fan my feelings while watching any match involving Arsenal are simply this-

    1. Our team is the best team in the world

    2. Every player in the Arsenal squad is awesome

    3. While watching old matches – those Arsenal sides were the best teams of that era

    4. All managers past and present were brilliant

    5. Arsenal players I have no idea about, having never seen them, those having played way before I was born, were still the best players to play the game in their respective era’s

    After the game of course I may have different views about certain players, tactics etc but during the 90 minutes as a fan its just undiluted adoration!!

    Hence those trying to even remotely suggest that the booing on Sunday was okay are not fans in my book..simples..

    You may say that is irrational, but I say thats what being a fan is all about, there is absolutely no scientific rationale behind watching supporting a group of 20 people playing football for a couple of hours every match day and then talking about it for hours and days after the match, until the next match is there??

  108. Keysersoze, 11:02 n 11:05= SPOT ON! A wkly dose of assaults to your ego ultimately results in psychological issues with its attendant loss of confidence and hence poor performance in all things we do.The highs that come with a win has the opposite effect! Without the fire n hunger for success that all sports people should have, there really isnt any other reason to compete, unless you get your kicks from appearance fees! To all AKBs,are you in on the loot at The Emirates? IF not , then you have no reason being in sports and pliz stop the arrogance and the posture of entitlement!!

  109. Kori

    I think you are being very nice when you say – “telling him to do this, do that”.

    Some of the whining, groaning booing fans are doing nothing other than kicking someone in the bollocks when they are already down

  110. and acrylic

    it is not about deserving to be an arsenal fan.

    it is for your own sake. you can’t stomach the fight. so sit out until things are better.

    🙂

  111. Anirudh,

    i try to be nice, you know 😉

    but it is getting really difficult.

  112. Kori

    I know, but 2-3 wins and it will be back to normal as the number of posts will suddenly miraculously reduce 😀

  113. Good article Yogi and one that unfortunately could have been written after any loss this season. The problem for me is not really one player or even the manager, its the continuing lack of faith between the fans and the club.

    Over the last few years with the stadium move, the ticket price increase, the deteriorating state of the club’s PR and complete lack of visibility around how much money the club actually has, a lot of fans inside the ground are openly questioning what their club is doing. These are not fly by night fans but supporters who have held season tickets for 20 years plus.

    It has meant every error, lack of signing or trust in an underperforming player has been jumped on and unfortunately the only way to vent this frustration has been towards the players and now it seems the manager.

    The season ticket waiting list will disappear this summer and perhaps that will be the message the Board needs but the current situation can not carry on because the atmosphere is poisonous and without clear direction the club seems to lurch from one crisis to the next, regardless of whether you agree with the way they are portrayed.

  114. korihikage | January 24, 2012 at 12:48 pm,

    I think you care. but the fact that you think that everyone else that has a different opinion to yours doesnt deserve to be a fan on this team is to be out of touch with reality.

    as for your analogy, pathetic at best. i have friends who sometimes go through hard stuff, i sometimes go through hard stuff, and there are times when you help them up, there are times when you tell them to clean their act.

    We have had this teams back for years, when is the time when this lot is told to clean up their act, that they can do better, or should do better? these are not babies any more, Dortmund won their league with a thinner squad and younger players, they are still there this season, they compete on a lower wage bill, and lower transfer budget.

    I have for years accepted that were were inexperienced, but i look at players on other teams that have the discipline and focus i dont see on some players on this team, and i begin to wonder. i see teams and managers that know where their weaknesses are and they strengthen appropriately while we still have the hope and see attitude.
    How long does one have to see the same thing over and over again without questioning or in some way holding some of these players to account?

  115. Jabba's Delights

    Frank | January 24, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    If you were in the stadium like you said Franky boy wouldnt the game have been ruined for you just before the 2nd half kicked off, or were you not actually in the stadium??

    Arshavin the player wasnt getting booed wenger deciosn to take Ox off was. Many of the fans i was sitting next to actually thought Wenger was goign to be bold enough for once to actually use Andrei in his normal position and take off the completly inefectual Ramsey.

    Like i said though a fan like you with your views should have had their game ruined where Djourou was widely cheered when the substitution was announced. You dont hear such things on sky though. That was the most disgraceful bit followed by the booing at the end. Arshavin introduction i think was just a huge majority of the fanbase showing their annoyance with the manager currenly.

  116. The term crawling out of the woodwork has real resonance today. Apart from a couple of expected ‘faces’ like Acrylic, who are these strangers?

    I am always suspicious of those who claim to be able, no, compelled, to at last tell it like it is.

    This is invariably followed by a statement that Arsenal are being let down by the manager, the players aren’t good enough and that fans who complain are the only possible saviours of the club.

    Maybe we are in decline, I believe that we won’t know until the end of the summer the answer to that question. Football success has always been cyclical. Doesn’t matter.

    As for you acrylic, I have little interest in your points about ‘wage structure’ to name an example of your ‘arguments’..

    I don’t know by how much our structure varies from our competitors and to be honest, I have little interest. I suspect that you don’t know either and that your only interest is to find some supposedly coherent reason to take a pot at Wenger.

    As a supporter, for me, it’s enough to have the sheer good fortune to have had a dad who took me to Highbury and make Arsenal my club. Every time they come out on the pitch, my emotions rise, my heart fills.

    The petty rubbish that you and your ilk come up with lays bare the the poverty of your ‘support’ and, I suspect, your life.

  117. Good post – as ever, you do us all proud.

    Certainly the concepts of loyalty and commitment seem pretty thin on the ground in some places. Personally I think there is a distortion of values, possibly a failure to educate. I don’t mean by teachers per se, but possibly by all of us old enough to do so?

    Whereas once upon a time we would have sought the wisdom of old men for guidance, these days anyone with an internet connection can pontificate regardless of the value of their words. To some extent, we are obliged to listen to all kinds of nonsense and the infrastructure of modern communication doesn’t bring any guarantees as to the quality of the information it so effortlessly conveys.

    I think the diminuition of the concept of loyalty leaves us all poorer. Sunday’s game gave us a timely lesson on the price we pay, as supporters of this awesome club, of this new found but unwelcome poverty.

    For anyone even vaguely paying attention to the EPL, it has been evident that the game we love has become a marginal one.

    All today’s matches have the potential to be won or lost by the slimmest of advantages and it explains why, for example, many of us spend a sizeable number of our waking hours discussing not just the play, but the contributions of the players, the referees, the managers and the fans.

    And whilst the concept of “home advantage” is not new, the belief that there are, apparently, “no easy games in the premiership, anymore” is a comparatively recent one.

    Any fan base that acts to neutralise “home advantage” by failing to get behind their team is, I’d suggest, less deserving of success than they might otherwise be.

    Any fan base that turns home advantage into a negative by abusing their own team, frankly, deserve what they get.

    And on Sunday, sections of the support failed to do the one thing they could do to contribute – however marginally – towards a positive Arsenal result.

    Some started behaving like the away supporters and became, however briefly, the enemy within.

    Make no mistake, we were in a battle and at the height of the fighting …

    They. Changed. Sides.

    They turned on the team. And, in so doing, they abandoned their former club.

    A few minutes later, the game was lost.

    Some present left their seats early, many minutes ahead of the final whistle. They failed not only to support their side but also, even, to see the game out.

    Now those same supporters might feel they are exercising some imagined ‘right’ to pass judgement on whose fault it was that we lost that particular game. Or failed to win others.

    I would suggest those same individuals start with a very close look at themselves.

    Did they, as supporters, even deserve to have their team win or draw on Sunday?

    Because if they did, how come they wouldn’t have been around to witness it?

    And had the team turned things around in those last five minutes, how could they, as supporters, whilst retaining even a shred of integrity, have brought themselves to go from booing one minute to applauding the team a few minutes later?

    Doesn’t matter that we ended up losing. We MIGHT have made it to 2-2. We COULD even have gone on to win 3-2. There was still time. I may be mistaken but I don’t recall too many of the team wandering off before the final whistle …

    Incredibly, some of the boo-boys are still doing it, days later, in radio phone-ins, on blogs and beyond.

    Attacking the team, criticising the club, failing to do the one thing they can do as supporters.

    To slightly misquote Consolbob:

    Arsenal play.

    WE support.

    And if you can’t manage that during the game, or stay with it through the thick and thin of a season filled, for all clubs, with inevitable ups and downs, then think again.

    If you hear yourself saying you are a fan of the club but insist on picking and choosing which players will somehow earn your approval, or you choose to join the media and the supporters of other teams in attacking the manager and his staff, then think on.

    Yes, think again, my friend.

    For, in my eyes – and in the eyes of many – you are no supporter at all.

  118. I agree with Bob

  119. Frank | January 24, 2012 at 12:50 pm,

    i am not a fan because i question?? WOWSERS

  120. What a star you are, Andrew

  121. Lovely Anirudh.

    Football fans are all children at heart. We don’t want to grow up.

    Every game is the same as the first time we saw our team, Every goal like the first.

  122. You are not a fan because you spout shit. You don’t appear to be intelligent enough to ‘question’.

  123. Please, can we stop using Arshavin as a scapegoat just because the media/Gary Neville are. As this blog says, and I agree, football is collective and the goal cannot be construed as AA23’s fault. This has been a problem for Arsenal over the past 2 seasons, we just cannot close out games, even against lesser opposition. As an Arsenal fan nowadays, even when were 2 goals up against a so-called lesser team, I am not confident about 3 points.

    I am not an AKB, but some of his decisions to puzzle me.
    Arshavin doesn’t like the wing, because he doesn’t like tracking back. Wenger would be better off moving him into the central playmaker role (pushing Ramsey back a bit), and having yossi/AOC on the left, Walcott on the right. Arterta/Ramsey as a CM, Song as a DM, and then AA23 backing up RVP.

    In a nutshell, there aren’t enough goals coming from other members of the team and everyone can see it, why cant Wenger. If anyone should have been substituted against Man U, should have been Walcott as he went missing. AOC was injured (LIES), ok, he didnt look it but Ill take your word for it. So when is the next time we will see AOC in action. if it wont be for another 2 months, you may as well have left him on the pitch.

    Note to Arsene, yes we have a big squad when our injured players return, but there is no competition for places. Therefore, if for example, Sagna is injured, we only have Jenkinson who is a natural RB, and he cannot be deemed an adequate long term replacement. Thats just one example, millions don’t need to be spent.

    HE leaves Park on the bench for months, obviously he is either not keen on him or doesn’t think he can cut it in the EPL. So what does he do, brings him on against the Champions with 10 minutes to go, WTF? Wasnt he good enough for Fulham or Swansea?

  124. …and what the fuck does ‘WOWSERS’ mean?

  125. I agree with Frank.

    Spot on Andrew.

    Football is a joy, not a trial.

  126. I think it’s American for ‘Good Grief!”, Frank.

  127. ‘but the fact that you think that everyone else that has a different opinion to yours doesnt deserve to be a fan on this team is to be out of touch with reality.’

    acrylic

    like i said, it’s not about deserving. i just feel that maybe it would be easier for some people to take a break from arsenal. could spare them some agony.

    and i don’t really think you are telling your mate to clean up his act. more a case of you telling others that your mate ought to clean up his act.

    do something. i suggested: stage a protest at london colney. harass the players. harass the board. buy over the club. apply for wenger’s job. go for a trial and play for arsenal.

    all the above would be more effective than whatever you are doing.

    if you think they sound ridiculous, well… thats what i think of some of your comments too.

    anyway, regarding dortmund. i have lots of respect for them, for what they have achieved. same goes for lille last season. i think they could do it because those leagues are weaker, and there arent teams that spend their ways to victory. but don’t take anything away from them. they fully deserved it. if anything, they in fact show that it is possible.

    we are making the tweaks necessary to adjust to the nature of the premiership.

    and if you are thinking: you (me) are not doing anything either. just here slamming other real fans who care so much about arsenal.

    that’s where you are wrong. this is like a propaganda war. an information war. the media will do all it can to disrupt arsenal. because it sells papers, or because they really hate arsenal that much (i am more inclined to believe the latter)

    what i am doing, is hence very simple: fighting back. not giving them anything that they can use against us.

  128. Hence their life is miserable. Arsenal’s lack of success has become an existential problem for them in the fight to recover the bragging rights they took for granted when they started supporting a successful club.

    fkn well said !

    to azed : yes marginally my friend. we reach semis we reach finals we are always thereabouts for the league till march so what is it you dont agree with ? in 07-08 we lost it beccause the refs decided so…when we were going for a 9 win run in 09 -10 we ended with disappointment in wigan…last year again we could have done that had it not been for them liverpool, sunderland and some other results. the cc final you all complain about …thats what happens when as muppets you place all your eggs in one basket and make the team feel as if the cc is the fucking world cup. and what i remember is arsenal losing it, not birmingham winning it.

    altair …one question…have you understood that arsenal has as first priority to repay its stadium? yes or no?

    its a very simple question man ….answer it !

  129. Acryllic Altair | January 24, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Frank | January 24, 2012 at 12:50 pm,

    i am not a fan because i question?? WOWSERS

    lol…but who are YOU to question Arsene Wenger ?…thats the part you aint telling us mate ….hehehe

    do you really think that by claiming youre a fan you have the right to question professionals like wenger? ahahahah

    man where do u find these kind of fans …is that the kind of filth that goes to the emirates ? lol….pathetic …altair you and your ilk take your money and shove it up your @rses …lol…we dont need it …40,000 waiting list …..

  130. Frank | January 24, 2012 at 1:08 pm,
    The same nonsense that no one has been able to show me?

    Cbob (did i hit a nerve), amazing that everyone wants us to spend within out means, but the moment someone points out our wastage, no one cares or seems to care. i love it how people hereon have issue with people at legrove because they cannot see anything positive in the club, yet cannot see the same issue in themselves because they are too busy seeing nothing wrong in the club. as for the poverty of my support and my life, i will keep rather than have the wealth of your life and support.

    I have always held a positive view in life, always known that there are negatives and ups and downs, also known that there will always be room for improvement. if that makes me poor, so be it.

  131. C’bob

    Exactly…and the sheer joy when Arsenal score is the same which you feel when you scored your first goal in your own game of football or your first wicket in your game of cricket, and when you win or do well in any other game in which you are personally a part of..its the same for any sport..that truly is the magic of sport, and maybe that joy is waning in modern sport…I hope not..

  132. Some of you fuckers should take a good look at the media and see what is actually happening out there and how that’s seeping like poison into the veins of The Arsenal.

    Stop being in thrall to their shit-stirring, sensationalism and actually THINK about it from the viewpoint of the manager. The players. The club.

    Everyone is hurting at the moment but when it hurts the most that’s when you sort the men from the boys. How can we expect them to be lifted if we are sitting in the corner crying about ourselves? Even if you think Wenger should go – and I can JUST about accept there are some decent moderates who feel it’s time for a change – you cannot seriously think NOW is the time for that debate?! Are you fucking insane or just plain retarded?!

    There is only one option at the moment and that is to pull together, sing louder and fight until there is nothing left to win. After all of that, if we are still playing but out of everything, with nothing left to play for you should STILL fight and sing for pride.

    8-2 down and our supporters were the loudest thing in their enormous shit-hole ground.

    Maybe you think Wenger should go in the summer but lets give him the chance to prove you wrong first. I think he deserves at least that and if you don’t then who the fuck are you to call yourself anything of consequence to this club? What have you done, other than add to the media’s spite-circus and create discontent?

    You could be proved right and this season will be Wenger’s last and a failure to boot but you’ll still be wrong because, IF it is his last season, he deserves better from everyone. Starting with you.

    Look in the mirror and STOP asking what the club has done for you…(sorry JFK)

    It’s not Fucking over. It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.It’s not Fucking over.

  133. well said, Jonny.

  134. wow blinkered doesn’t even seem to cover the comments on this site….whatever happened to having alternative views, you generally find that somewhere in the middle is where things are. Wenger is not the almighty god that some believe but he is also not the incompetent fool others will say.

    However the stadium debt is like a mortgage and so paying it off more quickly costs more money. Wouldn’t it be better to invest a bit more in the playing squad and ensure CL football (or even give us a chance of getting it)?

    You never know people might actually think that they are getting value for money for their season tickets then?

    Nothing will change until the board stop taking and not using the money we have…

    My views….you don’t have to agree with them or like them but there they are

  135. Frank | January 24, 2012 at 1:08 pm,

    Who am i to question Wenger? A human who knows that he isnt perfect, a human that makes a financial contribution to AFC each year, and above all a human being that recognizes he is human. more importantly, i have not bestowed upon him immortality. some day he will be gone, you and i will be gone, Arsenal most likely, will be in existence.

    AS ffor the team not needing the money, i am yet to see a more worthless comment than that. the team moved to the emirates so that it could grow funds, they are constantly looking to grow their fanbase and revenues. to them, every fan counts and every pound is the same colour, offers the same value. why anyone would think it is any different is beyond me

  136. altair …about 7 people in here have told you that they do see negatives, they do see limitations in our squad …but they aint complaining and asking for change like you are.

    are they muppets ? are they stupid? are they clueless? no they are not.

    they have understood what it means to compete in this modern age in this environment (epl) while having a 450 investment on your shoulders.

    they have understood that arsenal CAN NOT work/operate like city /chelsea and others do.

    you havent!

    the fact we are close to them and have been ending these past seasons 3rd and 4th is not such a huge deviation from the positions 1 and 2 we were ending before the stadium move.

    what you dont get is that teams that built stadiums … may go to the second division for a while….but wenger has kept you right up there and also competing and challenging for top honours. ……you tosspot.

    you are a myopic wanker and i feel ashamed that im wasting my time expalinign things to you which you should be able to see on your own.

  137. …and even if it is over, I’ll still sing till the end of the season.

    Great post Andrew (again).

  138. Meh, all this hoohah will die down if we win our next few games. Our next 4 or 5 games are all ones we should be looking at getting 3 points from. These games are more important than the one against Manure. We could have our season back on track by mid Feb.

  139. Gooner Sam – normally I would have no problem with your post, it’s not an unreasonable assertion but poorly times and hardly original, and right now we’re in the middle of a shit-fight with cunts.

    So join the fuck in or fuck the fuck off. 😉

  140. Anyone going to Milan??

    If so, fancy a beer?

  141. Ha – Jonny is raging today.

    Watch out chaps, I imagine he is fairly handy with a knife.

  142. Who am i to question Wenger? A human who knows that he isnt perfect, a human that makes a financial contribution to AFC each year,

    lol…hahah fuck your contribution mate ….if youre gonna pollute the team with yoru negativity just because you paid ..then take your money and shove them where the sun dont shine

    i give money to arsenal too….i dont expect trophies in return…i do it cause its a gesture of love and support…not a fkn investment to expect dividents

    and the best part ?????? if i dont like what i see i dont pay …hehe …try it… maybe that will save you the embarassment of appearing like a gloryseeking tw@t whenever you type.

  143. Acryllic Altair

    Can you list down 10 things you like about Arsenal Football Club?

  144. cesc_ara | January 24, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    When have i ever asked for arsenal to operate like Chelsea or any other team that blows its budget? show me any post, and i admit i am an idiotic poster with a myopic view unlike any seen of an arsenal supporter.

    Also, how can anyone see something wrong and not want it changed, or something done about it? pause, think, type, read through what you have written before hitting the post button because you are making an idiot of yourself.

  145. Acryllic Altair | January 24, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    shut up you chelski/ spud cunt …

  146. As repeated yesterday, the decision to replace the Ox was booed, not the Russian. Look at vP, he was not saying ‘we don’t want the Rusky’ he was saying leave the Ox, everyone was. AA has just not been firing recently and therefore some have chosen to see it as criticism of him, IT IS NOT.

    Whilst the goal was not the Russian’s fault either, the substitution was unnecessary at that point and weakened our established attack and therefore put more pressure on the defence, which leads to shots, which leads to goals.

    With Gervinho away, the Ox looks like the best replacement, it is just how it seems to 40,000 of the people who regularly watch the Arsenal in the ground and many more of us out.

    ME, vP AND 40,000 WANT TO SEE THE OX.

  147. Acryllic Altair | January 24, 2012 at 1:36 pm: and i admit i am an idiotic poster with a myopic view unlike any seen of an arsenal supporter.

    no shit……

    you win a trophy …

    my penis in a ribbon

    keep sucking

  148. “Cbob (did i hit a nerve)”

    Nope.

  149. Don’t get wound up by Cecs, AA.

    I have a few times in the last week and it amounts to nothing.

    For my 2 pence, I can’t understand why if you suggest we spend what we have earnt (the absolute sole purpose of moving to the Emirates), you are advocating a Chelsea esque spree.

    There are certainly better players on the planet we can afford than what we have in our squad currently.

  150. YW, et al – might find this summation of tweets from the ‘Premier League @20’ event last night interesting… http://www.twitlonger.com/show/fgvicg

    There’s a section about how in Germany ticket prices are lower yet the crowds are less aggressive – not what the EPL powerful bees would have us believe…

    Also touches on the general cuntery of PL fans (aggressive, cynical, too much obsessed with performance vs wages of ‘their’ players) Quite interesting…

    And it’s not just Arsenal fans. Arsenal fans might be particularly embarrassing… but it’s not just us. Which is even scarier I suppose.

  151. Jonny, I admire your seige mentallity and I always fall on the side of protecting the Arsenal but I personally cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel that Wenger has been preaching about and I do feel that a lot of the things he says these days do come across as arrogant and stubborn in the extreme.

    However as you say summer is the time of reconing but you cant be surprised by some furstrations comming to the surface by supporters. The club seem a little rudderless at the moment and so fans are concerned.

    I personally believe that every dog has its day and Wenger is unfortunately not the master he once was so I would like change. However that is my view and I appreciate that others do not.

    Anyway as I said before, one for the summer…NOW COME ON YOUR GUNNERS TIME TO GROW A BACK BONE AND GRAB THAT 4TH SPOT!!

  152. Nice post YW

    The contrast with ehat’s happening at Real Mad with poor old maureen is funny. Predictably we can expect those mean looking black snoods to defend their fantasy manager whilst attacking the Arsenal manager, non-stop, good times or bad.

    It is funny. Maureen has been told to his face he’s a twat by senoir playrs inb the game, and he’s not happy about it. Fans who tried to sing about Maureen were booed by what is said to be 80% of the Bernabau. No subs, no nothing, just booing the manager. No catalyst needed. They might win a baubel, but the Real Madrid board may be back in for their first choice again at the end of the season. And that highlights the absurdity of our resident black snooded experts.
    Of course the infantile riposte here will be, ‘you don’t let us say nuffink’, which is not true* , but when did truth ever bar the path of a comitted realist?

    *check the archives for what many here thought of various issuers at the beginning of last season, for example.

  153. whats that luke ? lol …

    you dont even know what our manager;s work ethics are …why dont you shut up and take your firend with you and go march outside the stadium with your “wenger out” banners?….lol

    lets see ya …you free democrats with yoru “opinions” and your “rights” …pmsl ….

    ” oh why dont we spend what we have earned” ..asks the little englander …..

    because what you ahve earned you muppet took 17fkn years of hard work , and like fuck if they start spending it according to your preferences …..

  154. I strongly suspect that you, RvP and 40,000 fans do not want to see Oxo sidelined for several games with a calf injury, SAGooner.

  155. Gooner Sam

    I think we showed a lot of backbone to get from 17th to 4th (briefly) and now we are sitting in 5th despite this recent dip in form..after such a good run of results, a dip is not such a shock, we have done it before and this set of players have certainly showed a lot of spine..Im still confident of a St.Totts this season,,,

    Up the Arsenal!!!!

  156. Keysersoze | January 24, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    1) the fact that we play beautiful football.
    2) The fact that there is a better focus to defence this year.
    3) The fact that we have a youth system that allows young players to come through the ranks i.e. we grow talent rather than simply consume it.
    4) The fact that we live within our means. i have often believed that any family, any business, any country will do well to spend within its limits.
    5) the fact that we are one of the few teams that pays their entitlements without fail, that there is no danger that the team will ever go the Leeds or the Pompey route as long as we have an operating system/environment as we have.
    6) That we are fortunate to have Arsene Wenger as manager of this team. one of the few managers remaining that cares about a team, different to say a Mourinho who leaves a team in worse condition that he got it. A manager that plans for the future and not the present.
    7) the fact that we can produce world class talent from players that came in as relative unknowns.
    8) that we are one of the few teams that can take a financial risk that ensures the teams long term future. how many teams can build a stadium and compete as we do? That is something that always fills me with pride.
    9) The fact that for the past decade and a half, we have been one of the biggest teams in the world. i dont think there has ever been a period like this when we were consistently in the top 4………..not a minor achievement.
    10) the fact that i think i am privileged to support the best team in the world IMO.
    11) the fact that we dont blow the budget every year yet still get a good amount of quality. fantastic scouting system we have.
    12)
    13)

    I could go on, but hey, i am already a negative, idiotic, myopic fan that doesnt deserve Arsenal for the mere fact that he thinks that there are positives and there are negatives. Sound familiar?

  157. I could go on, but hey, i am already a negative, idiotic, myopic fan that doesnt deserve Arsenal for the mere fact that he thinks that there are positives and there are negatives. Sound familiar?

    so why arent you praising the positives and backing the team instead of focusing on the negatives and being a disruptive element like a fkn rival would ?

    have them chelskei and tot fans messed with your brain then ….

    YOU ARE WEAK.

  158. We iz not pleased. Me just bout completely recovered from dat panic attack. Me not firing right. Takin me pills regularly for 2 weeks dig, since wot went down at fulham wiz da Djourou. Woz on fans forum last night wiz ze Tom Watts dig, and put cross argument about Arse bein ma Crew, and all that, family.. you dig ? Like we can criticize our own dig ? we can sayz the fings that need sayin bout the Arse.. no need to take offence.. words not comin from outsiders. we all family..so we sayz the truth – dat Arse need new fings, like a new coach innit.. and some practice cones so ze playa Walcott can learn ze dribbling…and wez need a new chairman.. coz dat geeza Hillywood… hez not ze mainest man. hez blow the ot air.. dig.

    Checkit, me agreed to write here today coz me wanted to talk bout wot needed for arse, and talk bout ze future. Wez got 2 weeks supply left, so am gonna sez some hoppers once ze get a re-up. we iz calm right now.. but weze got 8 days to make signing.. and weze only got 3 pairs of pants till then.. me ad a vision last night of Messi and Ronaldo up front…to fink.. me iz capable of imagining dat, but ze gaffa is not…infact.. imagine my surprise dis den this morning dat VP is on his way to Madrid…

    Let’s rap dis up now, coz I fink me feels somethin movin down below..the Arse world at de moment iz totally f-blank-blank-blank-ucked. so me need an extra afternoon session with ze finest afghan snow…laters..

  159. ‘Spend some farking wonga. We’ve got Loadsamoney. Look at my wad. ‘Innit gorgeous?’

    *boo the most expensive substitution in Arsenal’s history, one £15M signing for another*

  160. “Don’t say bung. How can it be a bung when it was paid by the chairman?”

    – Appy Arry

  161. Cesc ara

    How do you know what Wenger’s personal work ethic is like? Have you read the same literature as I?

    Have you written a piece of coursework for your masters on Wenger?

    How many sources, avenues, angles have you explored? Read about to define your undisputable champion understanding of our manager?

    Or is everything driven by passion, emotion, your fighting “muppets” like me, just because I don’t think everything is perfect.

    You have clearly not sourced the most easily available sources the in significant detail analyse our business model, so why would I ever accept your understanding of Wengers work ethic is better than mine?

    Your obessed with the man. It clouds your rationale assessment on the only topic you and I share an interest.

  162. Aaaah isn’t that nice. Shame that you have to throw all that away just for the right to have a moan. I suggest you run through that list several times before each post you make,son.

  163. Just think this is the wrong time and the wrong forum Sam – plenty of other sites share that viewpoint (especially right now). Thankfully this is one of the last bastions for those who haven’t yet lost their belief.

    I agree Wenger could have done some things better but, so what? No one will convince me he is not still the best man for the job. No one will convince me that now is the time to be bitching and whining.

    I’m targeting third.

    And a CL and FA cup victory.

  164. Some fans value beating ManU on a given day over all the reasons to feel proud and overjoyed at Arsenal every day: longterm infrastructure and financial foundation, new stadium and training facility, efficient youth system (and results), minimum (managed) indebtedness and maximum capacity to generate revenue for investment (in players mostly, and the real effect of this is yet to be understood, but it will be), global fanbase, great players and beautiful style. Some fans are stupid.

    Wenger has modelled teams as title contenders and aimed for top spot every year, but he has his priorities right; he does this within budget and a plan, every year, and most years his teams are title contenders, even if not winners. That’s what is called success. As a sustainable football model, it’s a godsend. Within that plan the CL is important (for revenue and other reasons), but as Ivan G pointed out earlier, even that we do not depend on financially, not any more.

    Sometimes the plan gets disrupted, funny old world isn’t it, by error, unexpected movements of players, injuries, form, and distortions created by stinking new money in football. That bubble won’t last and Arsenal will have the last laugh. We should all be laughing, every day.

    Arsenal has it all, and then some, but we don’t all know what we have, not yet, but I believe we will all know quite soon.

    That said, no one is happy when we lose, at home, especially Red Nose, and especially three on the trot in a tough season, after a horrendous start and summer. But crisis? Don’t make me laugh out loud. Football is heading towards crisis, Arsenal is an oasis of sanity.

    The main hallmark of Wenger’s tenure is consistency, year in year out, matched by substantive development (the plan) and emergence of players within the system. This year will prove no different. Watch and see what I mean. But, we do need to get cracking on, now that’s a fact.

  165. Moopay, what a star you are

  166. Jonny, I whole heartedly agree with your observations on the expectations created by Arsenal during their run of success. I think we all knew the stadium was going to be the sword of damocles at our thoarts until such time as the club deemed their debt burden unobtrusive enough to begin significant investment again in future players.

    Perhaps no CL football next year can lead to be a better shot at the title.

  167. cesc_ara | January 24, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Why do i concentrate on the negatives? The same reason everyone does.
    If you have discipline, you can keep the positives in check and maintain them, but by tackling the negatives, you put yourself in an even stronger position.

    again, Pause, Think, Type, Read through, Think again, Post.

  168. And for the record Cesc, I dont want Wenger sacked.

    I wouldnt mind if he made inroads into improving the squad with the vast armoury we have at our disposale. (scouting network, funds, agressively assmebled youth team, best coaching staff in the world)

    But hey, I’m just a piece of sh*t eh?

  169. Dearie me

  170. Frank | January 24, 2012 at 1:54 pm,

    What on earth makes you think i have ever lost the thought of all the great things being an arsenal fan presents?

    I have a different perspective, and for most in here, being different isn’t just being different, it is wrong.

  171. Ahahahaha – “Don’t say bung. How can it be a bung when it was paid by the chairman?”

    I do hope that was his actual defence.

  172. ZimPaul…there’s only wan ZimPaul…wan Zimpaaaauuuulllll, there’s only waan Zi im Paaaauuullll

  173. Also I appreciate the level of self entitlement I should in my second to last post, so I apologise for that, I dont reread anything I write. the point still stands Cesc, you harp on here sprouting a superior understanding but show nothing that suggests you have ever looked outside your own formulated opinion to improve your understanding.

  174. You have a rather self oriented perspective, old chap. A kind of syndrome it is. The constant urge to spout about the reason you think the way you do.

  175. anyone have a clear picture as to what the actual debt is now on the stadium? I seem to recall our interest payments are around 11-12 million a year compared with United 67 million but this may not be wholly accurate now.

  176. Acrylic Altair

    That’s good. Now can you take a deep breath and go through some of your earlier posts in the light of this list? I will give you some ready references.

    i look at players on other teams that have the discipline and focus i dont see on some players on this team, and i begin to wonder.

    i see teams and managers that know where their weaknesses are and they strengthen appropriately while we still have the hope and see attitude.

    we are no longer a club that big players want to come to, and that signifies the club we have become.

    we are not contenders to win anything yet we claim to be one of the biggest clubs in the world

    had the manager not put so much trust in them giving them chance after chance to redeem themselves, we might have had better competition in the team, and brought in other players.

    Nothing has changed because we were still making top 4, and AW rather than strengthen in this january window has chosen to go on and say we will depend on the players coming back.

    i would question a manager that pays players salaries for future potential.

    but it gets hard to sometimes bear to see someone make mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake, year after year after year. some of these players have had enough chances than they would have had in any other top team yet the manager keeps trusting them.

  177. How do you know what Wenger’s personal work ethic is like? Have you read the same literature as I?

    ive been watching it with my eyes the last 17 years thank you very much.

    its nto about things being perfect. i have never used such words. you think i dont see faults or negatives? lol ….of course i do …but them negatives are nto even remotely enough to suggest that i can doubt our manager. not because he is a god , but because he is one of the greatest managers football has seen.

    i am obsessed with arsenal. and wenger is good for arsenal. he has been proving it the last 17 years running . why would i not want whats good for arsenal?

    now you show me in these 17 years what faults you have found which make you think you can doubt or question his work.

    for every fault you find i will make a mug out of you cause i can bet my house from now that the faults you will find do not tkae into account arsenal;s position ( past and present) nor do you factor in the priority of the stadium.

    if you dont take such things into account when judging arsenal then your complaints aint valid. .

    it is not wenger;s fault that tony blair allowed foreign investors to come lift the football industry. it is not wenger;s fault that the uefa and the f,a allow dodgy principals to circulate money in the epl and anywhere else without knowing their origin. it aint wenge;rs fault that the media have managed to create a picture to the fans that 1st is everything and the rest are nothing. it aint wenger;s fault that media and fans are comparing his work – in- progress arsenal with teams that spend 200m on players to win stuff.

  178. Steve of Chiang Mai

    I love the fact that if we win the FA cup or the ECL all this crap will be forgotten…..and if we don’t, in 10 years all this crap will be forgotten.

  179. He surely is.

    Muppet, of course.

  180. in all this ranting, on both sides, the issue that will actually decide this in the end is ignored – Wenger’s health…

    it is painful/scary to watch him under stress now..the charm and wit of the Friday press conference suffers a Shakespearean transference on most match days these difficult times…Swansea was just as striking an example of this as last Sunday…at 62, showing this vulnerability, he is toast – for his own sake…it is desperately sad…

    but it is the real issue, right now…move him up to an emeritus position where his vast skills and reputation can be utilised and rewarded…get in a Lambert/Rogers/Martinez to manage in his best traditions…

    i love Arsene Wenger…which is why i want to see him moved…ultimately it has little to do with the merits/demerits of his current performance, it is a health/life issue…

  181. Jonny, you DOOMER!!! I’m targeting 2nd myself and the CL.

  182. yes luke …far superior understanding to the little engladers and cretins who think they can question or doubt the work of professionals like wenger

  183. Surly the biggest question an Arsenal fan as at the start of the season is not are we title contenders, but rather how many of our 1st team players are out for 3 months or more. At least this is what I look at first when the new season rolls around.

  184. @cesc_ara
    fourth spot is a trophy let that be the horizon of this clubs ambition infinitely. Not so

  185. yes you are a piece of sh*t cause in a period where the manager has asked for unity you take the side of those who want to boo and critisise……..

  186. little engladers and cretins

    You are persisently xenophobic to England, and as a result completely misguided in your outrageously tainted view of Wenger. Where are you from?

    Wenger recieves every ounce of praise when things go well, f**k, listening to you you’d think that he laid the very bricks that built our stadium.

  187. Agreed Miami – if they had any sense they knew that. Regardless, I’d give Wenger next summer to get it right (the squad) and turn it round – provided he still wants to. This season was always going to be a fucked season of transition after the shock of Fab & Nas.

    He’s earnt the chance to see a few of his youngsters (Jack, Rambo) blossom. He deserves a season with a stable, uninjured core (go on just one).

    Right now, I’ve far from given up on this one.

  188. I don’t boo you presumptious little sh*t.

    I’d like our highly rewarded manager, with a very healthy transfer war chest to improve the aspect of the team (defending) he has not only highlighted as our biggest downside over the last 4 years in each season review, but then proceeded to watch us get WORSE in everyone of those 4 years.

    I suppose thats not Wengers fault though is it?

  189. . have you read what zimpaul wrote altair and luke? have you ?

    thats how you think and express yourself about arsenal.

    if youre a genuine fan that is …….

  190. damn right i will ridicule the muppets who threaten to destroy arsenal with their booing …

    what the hell gives you that chip on your shoulder mate

    the one world cup where the ball never crossed the line ?

    this manager has developed george weah , patrick vieira thierry henry to name a few ..won the title in england undefeated …and YOU AND your like will critisise him ? ahahahah …

    sit the f down and go eat your bangers and mash boy ..

    leave that chaviar and fillet for those who know how to appreciate it.

  191. Stability is an interesting thing Jonny. Since 07/08

    Major ins: Nasri, Sagna, Ramnsey
    Outs: Lehman, Freddie, Reyes

    08/09

    in: Arshavin, Silvestre
    out: Silva, Hleb, Flamini

    09/10

    in: TV5, Sol
    Out: Toure, Adebayor

    01/11

    In: squill, kols, chamakh
    out: Eduardo

    11/12

    in: santos, per, arteta, park
    out: fabregas, nasri, eboue

    He has not even created stability, these four summers, which ones have we improved in?

  192. I don’t think we played well enough on Saturday, in fact both teams were not at their best, but until the imbalances from having four backs on both flanks out, plus four midfielders one or two of whom probably key to our game, and three Gs, we will not be quite at our best. Still, would anyone say it wasn’t a close thing? Were we overrun? What would we have said had we won, or drew? Because you know we could have easily done either. The same things? Or somethings different?

  193. Can we target 3 points in next game and catching Chelsea? when thats acheived then target 3rd and then…
    when our next games an FA cup tie target winning that.
    Been my theory all season and has made for some happy viewing and optomistic build up to each match. It easy, just taking each game as in an independant entity.
    plus can we be happy that we don`t have a captain that the opposition has to force it`s player to shake hands with!

  194. Luke

    Out of the players who have moved out, apart Eboue, Gilberto and Eduardo, who are the ones that he has moved out by his own accord AND could have played a role in the first team if they had stayed on? Unless you can list a few, your accusation makes no sense whatsoever.

  195. Jonny, I agree that I cannot see anyone better for Arsenal atm than Arsene. I think he has done a magical job given the restrictions placed upon him and we all need to recognise that. If the formula is to become debt free before more readily investing in eastablished stars then we have to accept that as the vision of the club and support our team regardless. Arsene has been a huge advocate of investing in youth, some have reaped rewards some have not but there is no magic formula for success in that regard.

    Arsenal are now a club apart, we do not mirror any other club in England because we have taken the self sustaining model to heart and play within its means. It is easy to envious of purchased success, but it is not Arsenal and won’t be.

    I have not given up on the season, but the annual injury crisis leaves me shaking my head again asking the same annual question of “how did it come to pass again that we have so many long term injuries”

  196. Interesting that you continue on your xenophobic attacks and ignore pretty much everything I have written.

    Wenger gives you an entry point to continue with a personal dislike of English football. Your pretty transparent.

    Lose Wenger, and lose c**ts like you.

    Caviar and FILLET, fillet what?

    Give me a wagyu beef fillet and a bottle of 1990 chateau du ferrand – I suppose though, because I’m half English, I like pubs, bangers and mash, have a tatoo, a staff, burn easily, am overweight, like the long ball and strong tackles.

    Arrogant little punk. Your French I assume?

  197. I see RVP has said that his ‘no way’ comment on the pitch was to the fans booing.
    Should shut a few people up but I bet it don’t.

    Good stuff from Andrew, Jonny and the usual suspects today.

    Support your fucking team or fuck off.

  198. Paul as previously alluded by Miami – given the outlandish difficulties of funding and moving to a new stadium we have overachieved. Mistakes were made but regardless we have overachieved the teams around us have only done better through outrageous spending and most who spent just quite a lot more are no better off and don’t have a new stadium.

    I know which I prefer, and where I’d rather be.

    Most Spurs fans will tell you the same thing.

  199. Sorry – Luke not Paul – bloody biblical names.

  200. Keyersoze, since many on here love to remind people we have NO idea of what happens behind the scenes, then statements like:

    “who are the ones that he has moved out by his own accord”

    Are unfounded. He is our MANAGER. If he can’t convince players that we have the substance and plan to challenge at the top and win titles (hard, when we regress on a yearly basis), then one can only assume our best players would like to further thier careers. No, Im not saying it always works out.

  201. Keysersoze | January 24, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    “i look at players on other teams that have the discipline and focus i dont see on some players on this team, and i begin to wonder. ”

    And you wonder why players like Kroos, Cleverly, Welbeck, Bale, Thiago Alcantara, Albert Cuenca, Mario Gotze, Lika Modric show more promise when compared to some of our players that have not the same consistency while having had more opportunities? Focus and discipline, having the hunger to be the best and hard work propels players further than talent alone. Diaby, Denilson, NB52, AA23, TW14, should be playing near to that level. they are not, and some earn higher than their comparatives.

    “i see teams and managers that know where their weaknesses are and they strengthen appropriately while we still have the hope and see attitude.”

    Again, we knew Cesc was going to leave, we still dont have his replacement. We needed a CB last season, and three seasons before, we chose not to invest. This season, we needed another player in defence, AW even recognized that, and yet, 24 days into a transfer window we have nothing. Jonjon said it best, QPR got a good LB on loan with the option to buy for 5 million. several seasons ago we needed a striker, got none.
    All these players we need in different positions are known, so why does it take ages to get the right number of players both in quality and quantity?

    Do big players want to play for us? Nope, why would they?
    Are we contenders to win anything? I dont think so, the FA maybe, but i would be shocked if we got to win the CL this season or the league for that matter.

    Does AW put too much trust in these players? Yup, and some come good. but i also wonder, how many chances would players like Diaby, Denilson, AA23, Almunia, get on any big team after years of under delivery?

    How many times has AW said we will have this and that player coming back and they will give us a push that will help us achieve our goals? almost every season for the past 6 years. and in that time, he has put trust in players that almost everyone knew would not deliver…………brilliant as he is, he also gets it wrong.

    Why would you also pay a player a huge salary for future potential? what happens if they dont cut the mustard? Oh yes, you remain with a bogus contract on the books that is hard to get rid off, how many of those do we have?

  202. Luke

    since many on here love to remind people we have NO idea of what happens behind the scenes, then statements like:

    “who are the ones that he has moved out by his own accord”

    Are unfounded.

    Do you realise that this is a shockingly lame argument? If you don’t have an answer then better to keep shut.

  203. I absolutely hate to say it, but Spurs this season have been superb. I like the grit and determination they have shown and what great signings VdV and Bale have been for them. The issue going forward is given their quality how long before they are set up for a transfer aboard.

  204. Exactly Miami and I won’t lie, the uniqueness of our club absolutely thrills me to the core.

    Comparison? With whom?!

    Exactly.

    The Arsenal. *Pretenders need not apply*.

  205. Yogi: I don’t know if it was your intention but your post started the whole good fan vs. bad fan debate. I think the name calling and accusations and fighting just promote the fan civil war and even though it may feel like defending the club, in reality it just makes everything worse because both sides dig in their heels even deeper and it all spirals down the toilet.

    I agree with your assessment that most of the vitriol we are seeing today is a result of all that has happened this season piled on top of the inexplainable end of last season. The whole year 2011 has been like watching a train wreck in slow motion. How much of it was preventable we can only debate.

    My favorite comment of the day was by GoonerAndy @ 1:29. I also thought the post by Richard at 12:58 made a lot of sense. The fans are struggling because it feels like they don’t understand many of the things the club is doing. The PR machine from the club has broken down because some of the things that are happening are getting more and more difficult to explain. As Richard said we seem to be lurching from one crisis to the next. Hopefully as Andy said a few wins will smooth it all out.

  206. Bill, there seems to be comments on the Arsenal PR machine quite often here which may mean that if change is to be effected then that is one department that maybe transferred out.

  207. Given the way the season is panning out, if somebody offered me 4th place and nothing else I would take it at this moment in time. We need to do what needs to be done, take stock and attack next season with a fresh start.

  208. Acryllic. FFS. Still writing monologues nobody can be bothered to look at? Is your dissertation on being a twat or something?

    Because I think you just finished it.

    You’ll be crying when it comes back ungraded because the lecturer killed herself just 6 paragraphs in.

  209. And you wonder why players like Kroos, Cleverly, Welbeck, Bale, Thiago Alcantara, Albert Cuenca, Mario Gotze, Lika Modric show more promise when compared to some of our players that have not the same consistency while having had more opportunities?

    Excellent, you have picked up some of the best players and youngsters from assorted big clubs around the world. Do you think that is a reasonable basis for comparison? You know…I could name a world XI at any point of time that can beat the shit out of all the teams in the world. But that doesn’t prove anything about those teams.

  210. I know alot of people like the 4-3-3 system, but I cannot help feeling that we miss that extra striker. I watched the last 2 games and time and time again we were under pressure lumping the ball over the half way line to the opposition just to have it delivered back and put us under pressure. I know the system requires we create space for the width players to storm forward but with neither a LB or RB specialist, it looks toothless.

  211. Keyersoze

    And the rest of my post was what?

    Two questios:

    Do you think Wenger did everything he possible could to keep Fabregas?

    Why is it only Arsenal who seem to have first team starters entering the final year of there contract each summer? An added point to that, we gave 19 new contracts out last year. Do you think we secured the correct players?

  212. “Do you think Wenger did everything he possible could to keep Fabregas?”

    A: Yes

  213. I know it was not intended for me Luke, but I had to say it.

  214. Miami – apart from telling the board we should let him go?

  215. Andy @ 2:35:

    I think we have a real shot at the FA cup if the boss decides its a priority. Getting the no trophies monkey off our backs would be huge for the fans and may be the players also. Nonetheless, I agree that the real trophy for this season is 4th place and that has to be our main focus.

  216. Why would you also pay a player a huge salary for future potential? what happens if they dont cut the mustard? Oh yes, you remain with a bogus contract on the books that is hard to get rid off, how many of those do we have?

    Ever wondered why the most promising youngsters like Ramsey, AOC, Miyachi, Fabregas etc choose/chose us over our rivals? One reason is that we pay them more lucrative salary than what is available at our competitors. Since we can’t afford to match the wages that our rivals would offer the players at the peak of their prowess, this is a way to remain competitive. If we started offering lower wages to youngsters, we would be likely be left with a mid table team as the cream would anyway be taken by rivals who can afford higher wages. This combined with Wenger’s training and tactics keep us competitive.

  217. Does anyone here actually begrudge Cesc going home to join Barca? Don’t get me wrong I am livid with Barca’s handling of the transfer and their ethics should indeed be questioned. The lad himself however acheived all he could to the best of his ability and never had a bad word to say about the club.

  218. AND

    even if Wenger was powerless in the departure of Flamini, Nasri, Toure, Clichy, Fabregas, Hleb, Ade (decent side), then in your heart of hearts, has the, what? £150 million been reinvested in suitable quality?

    Chamakh, Squillaci, Kolscieny, TV, Arshavin, Santos, Arteta, Mertesacker

    (I realise there is more)

  219. Luke, if indeed Arsene told the board that we should let Cesc go then I still wouldn’t hold that against Arsene. The fact is that cesc wanted out, his heart was not in the club anymore and lets be frank here, their is no point holding him against his will. Now, the issue of whether contacts are worth the paper they are printed on is another debate.

  220. Certain clique in here is entitling itself to a few facts and created a perception of everyone else is wrong (that is media, blair, epl, uefa, fifa, e.t.c……..), but them wengerites. As long as it is that way cesc_ara and your ilk you’ll have this club on the outside always looking inside.

  221. Luke Realistically I don’t think we could keep Fabregas. I know he is a professional and would have tried his best but his heart was not into what he was doing here anymore, IMO. We were stuck because Barca and Cesc had us over a barrel and they both knew it.

  222. Do you think Wenger did everything he possible could to keep Fabregas?

    Why is it only Arsenal who seem to have first team starters entering the final year of there contract each summer? An added point to that, we gave 19 new contracts out last year. Do you think we secured the correct players?

    Answer to 1 – Yes. What else could he do? Put him under house arrest?

    Answer to 2 – Hope you realise that Arsenal players are not fans of the club but professionals. They will usually have no qualms about leaving for higher wages. And the rule of the game is, that the better players will most likely be the ones who will get boffers we can’t match.

  223. “Do you think Wenger did everything he possible could to keep Fabregas?”

    can’t believe this question is even asked.

    i think the person who was saddest to see fabregas go is arsene wenger himself.

  224. Miami, the fact of the matter is Arsene allowed our best player, with years left on his contract go for half his value. This is not about Cesc, this is not about Wenger , this is about Arsenal Football Club! The fact is Wenger made a complete bollocks of this particular transfer deal (unless your Barcelona that is). We sold our best player and just as bad . . . we didn’t replace him. Anyway old ground now I suppose, let’s move on.

  225. @Luke
    He kept him two years when he wanted to move in the summer. I am not sure what else he could’ve done besides taking Fabregas’ family hostage.

    @AA
    You ignored it yesterday, but I will ask the question again: what is your opinion on the fact that we have constantly overachieved over the last few years in relation to our wage bill?

  226. Keysersoze, you stated an important point both ways with the present wage structure in your post of 2.45. Arsenal do indeed it seems pay more in wages to emerging talent and that may indeed sway those talents to join Arsenal. The problem then becomes however that our wage structure is largely flat and their earning potential elsewhere can be much higher than Arsenal offer. It could be argued that we have developed players and give them EPL experience, only to see them more on for a larger offer. The flip side is also interesting, if the player does not kick on and become that star then his earning potential elswewhere is not as great thus we are left with a highly paid player unwilling to move.

  227. Modric seems to be playing pretty well for the Spuds and he wanted out also. Cesc was under contract to us and we should have kept him; he was our best player and the fulcrum of the side. Unless of course we recieved a bid that we could not really turn down (which we didn’t). Just my take on things.

  228. even if Wenger was powerless in the departure of Flamini, Nasri, Toure, Clichy, Fabregas, Hleb, Ade (decent side), then in your heart of hearts, has the, what? £150 million been reinvested in suitable quality?

    Chamakh, Squillaci, Kolscieny, TV, Arshavin, Santos, Arteta, Mertesacker

    All these players left as better players than they were when they joined. To replace them with similar quality of players the incoming players would have to be paid the wage that Flamini, Nasri, Adebayor et al got in their new clubs, which we couldn’t afford for them in the first place. Given this constraint, I think the replacements were as good as we could hope for.

    By the way…do you care about economics?

  229. Evil – “I am not sure what else he could’ve done besides taking Fabregas’ family hostage.

    Err, the guy was under contract (and a long one at that). We didn’t have to do anything aside from tell him that he wasn’t leaving and to knuckle down and get on with playing. It was down to Barca to change our minds with a big bid.

  230. JD Gooner, mate I know it hurts I am not saying otherwise but we cannot hold on to any player that wants to go. Football is a business, if we had wanted to leave for anywhere we could have got a better deal, but that was not the case he wanted to go home. When Cesc made that fact known the deal was always going be better for Barca.

    The question as to whether Arsenal have become the new Ajax is an interesting one however. Ajax are a selling club, they sell their stars and create more as part of their model. You could look at Arsenal perhaps in the same light, but I tend to think our position is more about the economics of the move and so these years of lesser investment may prove to be business well done in another 10 years.

  231. @GA
    And we did keep him for two years when he wanted out. And he already stopped giving 100% last season. Even if he isn’t giving 100%, I would’ve still preferred to keep him, but I think we all know that the Arsene/Cesc situation runs a lot deeper than any of us knows because of the relationship between those two. No one really knows why we did keep, why we didn’t, what was said behind doors. The only thing we know is that Fabregas wanted out for some time and Wenger couldn’t convince him to say a third time.

  232. miami – “ but we cannot hold on to any player that wants to go.

    That is true if the said player is likely to cause trouble. The likes of Gallas/Tevez/Ballotelli spring to mind. But Cesc is not in that category. He loved the club and had huge respect for Wenger. If he had stayed I am pretty sure he would have been professional and just got on with it. As I have said, the onus was on Barca with their bid, not on us to lower to their price. We were not trying to sell remember.

    This is one area which really sticks in my throat. Despite all of the critisism the club and Arsene get, I don’t think they get much wrong in the big scheme of things. I do think they “dropped one” with Cesc though.

  233. Miami, with respect, that’s complete nonsense. Cesc was on our books with years left on his contract. He’s not the only player not to be allowed leave their respective club and I’m sure he won’t be the last. But what’s most unforgiveable of all is he wasn’t replaced despite the dogs on the street knowing he was leaving long before it was confirmed.

  234. Everyone take a breather.

    Have a Zen moment and the football will improve.

    Breath in, Breath out. Got some painting to do? Upstroke, Breath in Downstroke Breath out.

    Breath in, Breath out, Ox in, Djourou out, Ox in, Djourou out.

    See. The team is already better.

  235. GA, I respect your point of view, I am just not sure how much power either the club or Arsene had at the end of the day. The transfer saga for me was years in the making and a powder keg for the media to light a match to. As I stated, I think Barca came out looking like turds but at the end of the day they don’t care because they got their man. Cesc was great for Arsenal but clearly wanted to leave, he may have been professional but we had been angling for the move for a couple of years and eventually ensured it was going to happen.

  236. Jabba's Delights

    Jonny | January 24, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    How many fucking times does he have to be given until the summer?

    2 summers ago the le grove lot gave him unitl the end of the summer to do his best to better an 11 point defecit and were left highly disappointed by a Chamck and Ksociellny signings.

    It turned out to not be enough we then finished with 7 fewer points then the previous ”disappointing” season. The manager asked to be judged in may, the majority of the fanbase wanted him to have the summer and all our hard earned cash to rectify things.

    I havent seen a worse summer by any sporting club that hasnt been called dysfunctional or in need of a makeover in my life. We are in the midst of an even worse season than the previous one which was our worst in 15 years and NONE of the issues seem to have been addressed. The buck stops with manager and his players.

    If we fail to make the top 4 it will have been because of our poor performance ntohing to do with money the fact that we may have done so right at time when we have great resources is all the more damming. The manager should be asked to step upstairs or sacked if this happens. We are a multi million pound business and should be treated as such meaning their is accountability all the way up unitl you hit good old silent (i’ve got the worst record at managing sporting franchises ) stan.

    If we scrape top 4, there should be a incredibly detailed internal investigation as to quite why our perfromance isnt improving as that should be the nature of the game isnt it. In 4 years our team hasnt got better and someone needs to be held accoutnable to that. We currently have this issue where board tells everyone their is money, the manager says there is money, the performance on the pitch isnt good enough and yet nobody is sold and nobody bought, EVRYONE is given bigger contracts

    Thats how i feel and you wouldnt have seen a boo out of me at the utd game, or any of the others ive been to since i started going in 87. You can question the direction of the club without booing your own players

  237. JD Gooner: “But what’s most unforgiveable of all is he wasn’t replaced despite the dogs on the street knowing he was leaving long before it was confirmed.” Arsenal acquired Arteta and had Wilshere.

  238. Miami, don’t intend getting into a prolonged debate about this but to suggest that Arteta is in the same class as Cesc is laughable. It should also be noted Jack wasn’t “acquired”, he was part of the youth set up.

  239. If Wenger had kept The OX on Fergie would have kept Raphael at RB

  240. JD I never said Jack was acquired, I said “and had Wilshere”. I personally think Arteta has been a solid player for Arsenal and wholly missed in his injury absence.

  241. Next year we have Frimpong, Campbell and Bartley all returning having gained valuable 1st team experience to add to the mix. I have excluded Denilson and Bendtner because I don’t think they’ll be back.

  242. Miami, apologies, misread your post re Wilshere. We’ll have to agree to disagree on our thoughts of Cesc v Arteta.

  243. JD, I don’t disagree with you at all mate I do not believe that Arteta is as good as Cesc by any stretch but honestly who is? More to the point who is that would have been available? All I was suggesting is that between the emergence of Jack and the acquisition of Arteta they thought they had the position covered. Jack’s injury proved that once again the gods of football were pissing on Arsenal again.

  244. Miami:

    I agree with everything you say including the thoughts about our wage structure @ 2:54. Great teams are built around great players and you fill in the squad with good players who compliment the great players. Our current wage structure was built with the idea that we would bring in a stable of talented young players and let them mature into a great team. The problem is that we have not been able to keep our best players. In retrospect its easy to criticize some of the things that have happened but some of those “mistakes” could not be easily forseen prospectively. The reality of “the project” was that it did its job by bringing together the “Cesc generation” of very talented young players. Now that we have seen the problems you describe hopefully we will have learned our lesson and not repeat those mistakes. Time will tell how it all plays out.

  245. Keyersoze,

    I don’t care much for economic theory, prudent practice, of course.

    I appreciate that finding players to match the departed players calibre would have been tough, however, considering we signed players on free, on small fees etc and have generated huge profits from player trading each year, I won’t ever be in a position to suggest we tried our upmost to do so.

    Re: Keeping Fabregas – if we signed, and pander with me here, Eden Hazard, Mario Goetze, Ozil etc or one the marquee signings we are touted too each year, would his inclination to stay not have been higher? Many senior players were calling for quality additions last summer and this, and whilst they cant appreciate the transfer market like the club, do you believe that any of superstars have been uplifted by the arrivals?

    And I appreciate players are not fans, but when do you hear of Spurs, Chelsea, United, Liverpool stars being subjected to bids because they are entering thier final year? Flamini, Nasri, now Walcott, RVP and Song.

    We now enter this summer unsure of the actions of three critical players, using last summer as a basis, Wenger cant move untill thier futures are decided, we know he doesnt buy after major tournaments due to price inflation etc, its going to be even more difficult, than it already seems to be for the secrative slow moving front office in bringing in the correct players.

    Ideally, we’d have all major contracts secured, and have our scouts out now watching potential targets, now I am sure we are trying to do that, but if we fail this summer like we did last, surely there needs to be an explanation for the constant restructuring.

    Apologies for answeing three posts and bringing up new topics in one post!

  246. Miami – I do take your points. My honest opinion sort of shares yours to a degree. I don’t have a masive quibble that we let him go disapointing as it was. My main gripe is that we let him go for a knock down price. Not only did we let our best player go, we actually made it easy for Barca to get him. We should have named a realistic price and told Barca he was theirs for that price. If it then didn’t go Cesc would have been able to look at them, not us as the reason his transfer didn’t happen.

    And further to that, only weeks later they bought Sanchez for £30M+. We let our prized asset go for a knock down price. That is bad business.

  247. Jabba, Le Grove can get fucked – they wrote off Kos as a waste of money same as they did Song. They and their viewpoints have always been the minority.

    I’m not here to argue mistakes haven’t been made and I accept that, for the first time, we are seeing a wider spread of feeling that Wenger’s time *might* be drawing near.

    Until the shift gains enough voice that the great majority strongly feel he should go, then for me Wenger stays. It’s not a democracy but I am sure Wenger will have the decency to stand aside if and when the time comes.

    you’ve written him off and given up half way through the season – how can you judge Wenger when you can’t even take a decent look yourself?

  248. 2 summers ago the le grove lot gave him unitl the end of the summer to do his best to better an 11 point defecit and were left highly disappointed by a Chamck and Ksociellny signings.

    That is pure comedy gold. As if the le-grive lot, who are the absolute scum of the Arsenal blogopshere, are actually important. Can you pass me some of the stuff you have been smoking?

  249. Luke

    Will respond in about an hour.

  250. GA, no question the transfer could have been handled significantly better than it was.

  251. Jabba's Delights

    JD

    Arteta is a quality player that is completely different to Cesc.

    We are missing Cesc guile hugely in the final 3rd as Ramsey as yet hasnt stepped up into the consistent performer needed. 10-15 gaols 10-15 assists we need from that boy.

    Arteta plays wilshere role last year differntly but just as well in my book.

  252. I like the way Barca play football, I am however disappointed with them and a few other clubs that seem to be able to bully with impunity without fear of sanction from governing bodies.

  253. Arteta and Cesc are very different players. We should be suplementing our top players, not replacing them. Why not Cesc and Arteta in the same squad? Add Wilshere and Song into that mix and it is an exceptional pool of midfielders.

  254. If you look at the opta stats Arsenal are actually 3rd in the shots on target to shots taken ratio… I was surprised by this stat. I think we cannot under estimate how much we have missed the attacking drive of Wilshere this season.

    Jabba, I think Cesc is one of those generational players, you just don’t get many of them at all anywhere.

  255. GA, I really want to see if Chuks Aneke comes on next season after his loan… I had the pleasure of watching him play and I can see a huge outside (of course, all going well)

  256. Samuel at 11:50 spot on about the lack of goals from midfield and Ramsey’s below par performances I thought when arshavin was coming on it would be for ramsey. Seriously very little impact in the final third for a creative midfielder. Every one pet hates walcott and arshavin take the brunt of abuse, arshavin in this case probably deserves it for his poor defending on the corner but walcott try as he will may never make the grade as a right winger.
    I think ramsey would benefit from somtime on the bench.

  257. Yup, Jabba.

    Arteta has started his Arsenal career in great form, and certainly plays the Jack role.

    Great point you touch on, the Cesc Fabregas who quit, bottled, showed no spirit, spine and all the other shit he udeservedly recieves chipped in with 12 goals and 19? assists last season.

  258. GA, do you honestly believe Wenger would have bought Arteta had Cesc stayed, I don’t think so. Your point about suplementing our squad and not replacing is a valid one however I don’t feel that Wenger would have went into the market on the last day had Cesc and Nasri stayed and had we not suffered the humiliation at Old Trafford.

  259. JD – I don’t know. Maybe he would, maybe not. I don’t buy that our purchases were on the strength of the Old Trafford game. We always leave our business late so that was fairly normal for us really. Plus the Wilshere injury threw another spanner in the works.

    Miami – Hopefully so. He does seem a decent enough prospect.

  260. I am not concerned with Cesc, after all the boy is back with his mummy and daddy now and has joined an already winning outfit. For home games he can play half a game and still be home for his tea. Can’t say he likes a challenge can we.

  261. Frank, I think you’ll find that Cesc starts every major game, has played more than most, and is only second to Messi in goals and assists.

    He is very much a key player for Barce. Cant say Im suprised, he is the most talented attacking midfielder of his generation.

  262. korihikage ,Jinny,Arsenal Andrew,Frank Firstlady.
    All real and worthy Arsenal fans.
    People who want Arsene to stay but only if he toes their line should quickly disappear up their own backsides.The lily livered bastards are contemptible.
    I despair at at good people wasting so much time fighting with no marks.
    I have lost the will.

  263. Frank – Look at it any which way you want, but it can’t be denied that we lost a fantastic player who would improve any side. Shame.

  264. Jabba's Delights

    Jonny | January 24, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Who is giving up, i will be attending home and away from here on in singing at the top of my voice for my beloved club. That however doesnt mean i cant point out a couple of things. I stated rather than win trophies we should set out for a points total that we would be happy with achieving.

    I said from 80-84 pints would mean we’ve had a very good season and would be in the mix for a title other than if city, chels, or utd just have breathtaking years. It was achievable if we got 12-14 pints better. In order to do that you need abit more luck and then then you also need to go and get better at yoru weakneses and yoru strengths

    It was stated that last eyar we were closer to 6th than 1st and that 68 points in most years wouldnt get you top 4.

    We then had an appaling summer and to much abuse it was stated by some on here that we havent got better and that in reality 70 points might be hard to break which for a club with 120m pound wage bill should be an absolute guarantee.

    If we win every game form here on in we get 84 points, our season with 16 games remaining is on the brink of not being where we should be. Contrary to what some on here think, a title challenge is determind by your final points total and over 38 games last year we got 68. One more defeat and we are on the brink of our title challenge almost certainly being mathamtically over (only aresnel in 98 finished with below).

    George and Frank laying in to everyone who stated that on the body of work we arent good enough to challenge for the title next year.

    The fact is once again we will be coming up short and the only reason i can see for that is the manager and his policies.

    If Utd, city, and Chels all come above us as they are richer then so be it, but i see abasolutley no reason why since 2008 we shount have been hitting 80-84 points every year considering the disparity in wages and fees we COULD and do have over the rest.

  265. @Luke
    Not sure why you would lie about Cesc’s numbers for last season. He was worse than that.

  266. PG – Interesting post. I love Arsene to bits (and don’t want rid of him as it goes), but I am an Arsenal fan, not a Arsene fan. The two are exclusive of one another. Questioning the manager does not take away from an indivduals support of the club one bit.

  267. People who don’t question are worrying; it shows a lack of insight and rational thinking. Obvisouly there is a time and a place (inside the stadium most certainly is not the ctime). Being a sheep and blindly follwing the crowd is no great thing.

  268. Jabba's Delights

    pedantic george | January 24, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    One thing is certain, the worst kind of Arsenal fan is the one who wants arsene to stay without targets. For that is a fan who cares more about arsene than the club………….that is you george. You showed yourself when you spat out uneducated bile against Graham, and you said it yourself when you said the only reason you started supporting us was because we played the best football, won and had bergkamp and wenger…….clap clap clap what a stand up fan you are

    How anyone could want the manager to stay if he doesnt start improving the team in real terms rather than your fantasy one i have no idea.

  269. Great stuff Yogi.

    With all of our players healthy, we are the best team in the League. I am bothered that some talk about the team as if we are second rate, we are not at all.

    Too many injuries in one place has seen us struggle. When the starters and backups are injured, that is hard to deal with, very hard.

    This team will push on when players come back. You best believe that blow wow!

    I can’t be bothered with knowing more than the manager does (tedious as heck to read, well to skip over), I just enjoy The Arsenal.

    We will reach the mountain top again and it will be all the more sweeter because of the struggles.

    I believe that we have some players who are coming through who will be committed and who will not forget the faith that Arsene has had in them.

    It’s exciting. Just look at how Frimpong goes to the Wolves and is already one of their best players. I will be patient and see this thing come to fruition!

    ARSENAL!

    Have a blessed day all!

  270. AW felt that he could build his central midfield around Jack, Aaron and Alex.Mikel,Tomas, Abou and Yossi would supplement that, with Emmanuel being brought in as required to bring him along. That should have been more than enough. But then the Arsenal curse struck. A nice looking midfield for any squad I reckon when Jack gets back.

    I also think that Carl Jenkinson and Andre Santos will prove to be fantastic buys. Tomas Vermaelen, Laurent Koscielny and Per Mertesacker are developing into a formidable group of centre halves. Already beginning to prove that. Poor old Johann has his work cut out breaking into that group. The complaints in the media about Per Mertesacker are pure bullshit. He is already beginning to demonstrate his reading of the game.

    Add in the evident quality of Agnassi, Francis and Nico and the back and midfield looks great. Just needs a run of luck on the injury front to bed in.

  271. Evil – All in he (Cesc) scored 9 and made 17 assists. Not too shabby for a player who was not that interested, weak and a coward (which I have seen him called on here). A few more of those would do us nicely it seems.

  272. Frank – Yup, I agree with all of that.

  273. Is it me or did Cesc say himself that he couldn’t spur himself or the team on.

    The best part of the summer was certain players leaving. You need fighters in the team, if they are less talented, so be it.

  274. george

    what is Wengers job remit then?Is it to win trophies or create players to sell on to make huge profits.You cant have it both ways.No team can win anything if they continue to sell their best players.Since Vieira went in 05 look how many top players we have lost.I support a football team not a team that has a good balance sheet
    RVP is probably the best striker in the world now.And is worth £220k a week along with the likes of Rooney.But will we give it to him this summer?No fucking way.We will take £50m off the likes of Madrid or City who will pay him what he deserves thus weakening the squad even further.
    We have to pay our best players the going rate
    And then when the profits are annouced we have made £60m plus profits

  275. I agree with Frank.

  276. I don’t agree with Jabba’s Delights.

  277. If you worry about people who you think don’t question then you are obviously a worrier by nature, so much so that you have to invent something to worry about to stop yourself from worrying.

  278. The tabloids have found that lies sell. So they lie all the way to hell.

  279. PaulN

    Tell me a team that can win trophies without talent?The trouble is we dont do enough to keep them.RVP will stay if we sign top quality players and pay him what hes worth.When he sees Greedybayor earning twice as much as him when he is 10 times the striker he is. it must do his head in.

  280. Paul – “You need fighters in the team, if they are less talented, so be it.

    like Stoke and Bolton? 😉

  281. Arsene certainly has become a very polarizing figure. Don’t think I have ever seen a manager in any team sport who causes so much passion on both sides of the fence.

  282. Frank – Heh, good try. But way off. I rarely worry about stuff. I probably should worry a bit more, but in all honesty can’t be arsed. Life’s too short to get stressed about stuff.

  283. Between 98 and 2005 the target was to win the title.Between 2006 till now the target is top 4 finish.And the fans have swallowed it.The amount of times Wenger bangs on about 15 years in the CL is embarrasing.You get in the CL for finish 4th is that really too hard to achieve with a club the size of Arsenal.Did we really move grounds for that?

  284. The morons that think Wenger should go actually haven’t got the capacity to think this through, since Kronke categorically supports the self sustaining financial model, anyone that might replace Wenger would have to operate under the same model and as there is no one better that AW at this, you should be careful about what you wish for.
    I am not going to rehash his achievements at the club but they are monumental by any standards.
    Yes I have concerns about the manner in which the club has gone about its footballing business in recent times but the responsibility for this I lay squarely at the door of the Gazidis and Kronke I would also like to see Hill-Wood removed from the board.

    The twats that booed on Sunday are nothing more than fair weather fans and should fuck off somewhere else.
    Excellent blog as usual YW

  285. …Frank has the right of it. (Common Occurrence)

    Chicken Little is chicken…if the sky is not falling then what use is Chicken Little.

    “Haters hate” can be extended; “Doomer doom”…if they don’t what use are they?

    As we have discussed many times, the psychological phenomenon of “Doom-Saying” is a well documented coping mechanism for preemptive allaying of the fear of disappointment. If we’d won, they would have said, “Well, it’s not like we crushed them…and Wenger’s subs could have just as easily backfired…I think we’re screwed, that was just luck…it was more that they gave us the game than we won..” Heard it too many times. I’ll entertain that we have many problems but the panicky over-exaggeration of our failings and our troubles belies the agenda. As was said in the past day or so…”we’re talking about 5th not 15th.”

  286. The great Jack who fans look on as the saviur of our season let me remind you last season had 3 assists and only 1 goal.
    A lot lot less than the non trying Cesc and the scapegoat AA23.Some fans really do wear red tinted glasses

  287. Now, where did I say that the team does not need talent?

    However, when we had the super talent of Cesc, he shrunk when we needed him most. The guy was gone in heart way before he was sold.

  288. Luke

    Re: Keeping Fabregas – if we signed, and pander with me here, Eden Hazard, Mario Goetze, Ozil etc or one the marquee signings we are touted too each year, would his inclination to stay not have been higher? Many senior players were calling for quality additions last summer and this, and whilst they cant appreciate the transfer market like the club, do you believe that any of superstars have been uplifted by the arrivals?

    Yes probably. But who says that we can attract Hazard, Goetze, Ozil and their likes? The moment we get a bid accepted other clubs will bid for them. None of them are Arsenal fans, so they will go to a club that will offer them higher wages. That is how demand and supply works. The demand for players of this quality is far far greater than the supply, so there will be bidding war for them, as well as wage war. And the fact that Ozil went to Real Madrid for X amount is not important, because if we had bid that same X amount Ozil would have still gone to Real for the higher wage.

    Why do you think we finish our transfer business either very early or on deadline day? Because we don’t want to get into bidding wars, as once that happens we won’t win.

    And I appreciate players are not fans, but when do you hear of Spurs, Chelsea, United, Liverpool stars being subjected to bids because they are entering thier final year? Flamini, Nasri, now Walcott, RVP and Song.

    Chelsea, United and Liverpool pay higher wages than us. Even then, have you forgotten what Unted had to pay Rooney to keep him? Spurs don’t, so wait till Bale and Modric near the end of their contract and see how it goes.

    We now enter this summer unsure of the actions of three critical players, using last summer as a basis, Wenger cant move untill thier futures are decided, we know he doesnt buy after major tournaments due to price inflation etc, its going to be even more difficult, than it already seems to be for the secrative slow moving front office in bringing in the correct players.

    Ideally, we’d have all major contracts secured, and have our scouts out now watching potential targets, now I am sure we are trying to do that, but if we fail this summer like we did last, surely there needs to be an explanation for the constant restructuring.

    See above. It is not as easy as you make it out to be, that scout identifies a player, we make an offer, it is accepted, and bang. There are several factors involved which puts us at a disadvantage. I am not suggesting that we are perfect, but it is not as simple a problem as any Tom Dick and Harry with a keyboard could solve.

  289. I am the only one here who thought it was a cracking match? Best encounter with them for a long while. Excitement, nail biting finish and could have gone either way.
    Honestly if all that matters to you is the score don’t watch the match just check the results later.

  290. buckagh

    You honestly dont think Wenger backs everything Kroenke and Gazidis do.Is he their puppet?Get real .Everything that goes on at Arsenal Wenger has the final say.Dont blame the monkey.Kroenke wounldnt know Chamakh if one of his shots hit him

  291. Luke

    Reposting with proper formatting

    Re: Keeping Fabregas – if we signed, and pander with me here, Eden Hazard, Mario Goetze, Ozil etc or one the marquee signings we are touted too each year, would his inclination to stay not have been higher? Many senior players were calling for quality additions last summer and this, and whilst they cant appreciate the transfer market like the club, do you believe that any of superstars have been uplifted by the arrivals?

    Yes probably. But who says that we can attract Hazard, Goetze, Ozil and their likes? The moment we get a bid accepted other clubs will bid for them. None of them are Arsenal fans, so they will go to a club that will offer them higher wages. That is how demand and supply works. The demand for players of this quality is far far greater than the supply, so there will be bidding war for them, as well as wage war. And the fact that Ozil went to Real Madrid for X amount is not important, because if we had bid that same X amount Ozil would have still gone to Real for the higher wage.

    Why do you think we finish our transfer business either very early or on deadline day? Because we don’t want to get into bidding wars, as once that happens we won’t win.

    And I appreciate players are not fans, but when do you hear of Spurs, Chelsea, United, Liverpool stars being subjected to bids because they are entering thier final year? Flamini, Nasri, now Walcott, RVP and Song.

    Chelsea, United and Liverpool pay higher wages than us. Even then, have you forgotten what Unted had to pay Rooney to keep him? Spurs don’t, so wait till Bale and Modric near the end of their contract and see how it goes.

    We now enter this summer unsure of the actions of three critical players, using last summer as a basis, Wenger cant move untill thier futures are decided, we know he doesnt buy after major tournaments due to price inflation etc, its going to be even more difficult, than it already seems to be for the secrative slow moving front office in bringing in the correct players.

    Ideally, we’d have all major contracts secured, and have our scouts out now watching potential targets, now I am sure we are trying to do that, but if we fail this summer like we did last, surely there needs to be an explanation for the constant restructuring.

    See above. It is not as easy as you make it out to be, that scout identifies a player, we make an offer, it is accepted, and bang. There are several factors involved which puts us at a disadvantage. I am not suggesting that we are perfect, but it is not as simple a problem as any Tom Dick and Harry with a keyboard could solve.

  292. Stats do not tell the whole story. Certainly we want to see more from Wilshere but there is more to football than that. Look at the 2nd goal against Barca last season, Wilshere was instrumental though he didn’t get the final pass of goal.

    Wilshere thrusts through the middle of the pitch and causes teams to get out of position. Rosicky is the player that most gives us that now. He is tenacious, a great player for our squad.

  293. The media are loving this…whip up a shit-storm and watch the papers fly out the door…

    They grin behind their hands.

  294. steww

    Yeah i used to hate winning all them trophies and going a season unbeaten give me a good old 3-3 draw any day of the week.
    This is football not the X Factor.Stuff entertainment

  295. Oh and the sight of a spineless half fan like goonerandy attempting to debate with the real deal like Frank is the most hilarious thing I’ve witnessed for a long while. Every time feeble people like you crash against a true rock of proper support you look even sillier than usual. And that takes some doing.
    Tail between legs and crawl off little pup.

  296. Martin – well done that exactly counters what I said. You are a genius.
    Now hush up and try getting behind the club when things aren’t going so well. Try it, you might like it.

  297. Between 98 and 2005 the target was to win the title.Between 2006 till now the target is top 4 finish.And the fans have swallowed it.The amount of times Wenger bangs on about 15 years in the CL is embarrasing.You get in the CL for finish 4th is that really too hard to achieve with a club the size of Arsenal.Did we really move grounds for that?

    If and when you get your wish of Wenger resigning or getting sacked, you will know how good you have had it. I think no manager worth his name would be ready to take up the challenge i.e. Arsenal at this moment. The first thing managers ask is the budget, and when they hear a figure like 30 million including wages they will bugger off. We will probably get a young hopeful like Lambert or Martinez who would want a first shot shot at the big time. If we are lucky will get a has been like Hiddink looking for a last shot at the big time.

  298. Keysersoze

    So if RVP says to Wenger i will stay if you put me on the same wages as Rooney are you saying we shouldnt give it to him?

  299. When Cesc first broke through people complained that he didn’t score enough goals. I think the same people are complaining about Wilshere’s statistics right now.

  300. So if RVP says to Wenger i will stay if you put me on the same wages as Rooney are you saying we shouldnt give it to him?

    NO.

  301. Just gone through all the posts. Someone claims they wanted Arshavin to come on for Ramsey? How embarassing! Only Arteta, Wilshere and Diaby could have played there and they are all injured. Another two who could have covered for him, Denilson and Lansbury, are on loan. Ramsey has played much because of the injury crisis and has given his all.

  302. Steww – “Oh and the sight of a spineless half fan like goonerandy attempting to debate with the real deal like Frank is the most hilarious thing I’ve witnessed for a long while. Every time feeble people like you crash against a true rock of proper support you look even sillier than usual. And that takes some doing

    Heh, I am used to you posting shite on a regular basis. But you have impressed me this time and really outdone yourself. Once you have finished today’s duties as “fan police” make sure to remove your tongue from Franks anus as you clock off. It is not a pretty sight, although I have seen you do that on a number of occasions so should be used to it by now I suppose. You do make me chuckle Steww.

  303. Grateful for the likes of Johnny, Frank, Cbob, pedantic george et al….
    Liverpool spent £100m on players and are still behind us…I don’t hear calls for Dalglish’s head….maybe Wenger should have left for Real Madrid or Milan when they came for him…he doesn’t deserve this nonsense from the ingrates

  304. This much doom and gloom over 5th and in striking distance of 4th? Good thing this lot doesn’t support Wigan…you don’t have the heart for that. Get on our team for a minute.

  305. martin and the rest of you.

    ” did we really move grounds for that?” …what do you mean ? are you saying that 4th spot in this epl, in this modern age is not important for the financial stability of any club ? are you saying that entry in the champions league is a lesser achievement than winning the f.a cup or the c.c ? if getting in the champions league via the epl was easy then why are 6 or 7 clubs spending tons of money the last years to get there ?

    yes between 98-05 the target was to win the league. our players and our moves reflected that. world cup winners and multi-title winners. that period reached its peak in 04. the club had to think about the future. do they stay at highbury and run the risk of deterioration and decay or do they embark on a project with calculated risks and margins that will set them up for life? now that they can. now that they have the success and now that they have the time credit to do it. and they did it. and its been going magnificently well.

    this project included an investment in stadium and an investment in training facilities. total upgrade of the club. a massive transition. the biggest in the club;s history. we aint talking about squad renewal type transition but a whole and complete operation of change. they developed their scouting and their youth academies and for this kind of job they happened to have the most qualified person. a football manager whose greatest assets (among many others) are his eye for talent and a mind for value.

    within arsenal, obviously there is understanding between ownership , management and stuff. or else none of it would have worked. they enjoy a very healthy relationship and cooperation and they are all very serious people who work for the good of the club. these people and their plans are the results of long research and a lot of experience. sophisticated plans the details of which none of us can possibly know.

    united wins allright. what people dont notice is that united is the club with the greatest debt. in 7-8 years time when they are down the leeds path people will then realise that ” huh that wenger huh…he knew” because united and ferguson have reached the point where success on the pitch does not guarantee financial stability. and ferguson every year risks the history of manchester united to win another trophy or two. wenger is not risking the club’s history nor its future with his moves.

    regarding titles. it goes without saying that a club like arsenal, the last thing on their minds the previous 5-6 years was the title. they have other plans, other priorities and other margins. thats not to say they have lost their ambition. they are just sacrificing a little bit on the title front in order to create solid base for the future. where ferguson mourinho /ancelotti/roman , ;arry and mancini looked for ready players, players with grit and players who arent afraid to put their legs in the fire…wenger chose cheaper delicate technical ones to develop and either sell or keep to integrate with future generations and purchases.

    in 17 years of managing arsenal, the club has been transformed 100%, has won titles, has won cups, has played finals and semis in europe, has won the title here unbeaten, has seen players and the kind of football they would never ever get to see, they are always in the top tier of english teams and european, they bring out youngsters, the play “sexy” football as they call it, and they do it ON THEIR OWN, thanks to that brilliant manager Arsene Wenger.

    To hear and see the people who should be the first to knail in fornt of this man and kiss his feet for what he has done for us is a sign of HYBRIS not just disrespectful, but utterly wrong, he is subjected to criticism and doubt by the people who should be forever grateful.

    all managers, from jol to wenger know. they know because they are at trainign everyday. they know beacuse their stuff are people they can trust. they know cause they train their players and have connecions with them, others good and others bad. they know cause they have a bunch of statistics and ergometric tests and a whole scientific team of giving them vital information on players fitness, psychology..etc ..details you aint got a clue about. when these managers make decissions they have access to information that the journalist and ignorant fan aint got a clue about.

    therefore when some muppet turns and thinks its his right and duty to question i will of course ask him : well who the f*ck are you mate? what do you know?”

    the replies i get are ” well cant i express my opinion” …no you cannot.. you do not have the expereince , knowledge or even strength of character or gravity of a personality to even think you can have an opinion on things which are out of your control, authority and expertise.

  306. Andy.I never said you can not question Arsene .
    What I said is it is gross stupidity to say he can stay as long as he starts doing things the way you(you not being you in particular ,more a fan with a huge overestimation of this football knowledge) want him to.
    Why should he do anything the way some halfwit fan with a entitlement complex wants him to .He is the manager .and a proven genius.
    What are you?
    WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY?
    Why would he want to follow your instructions?

  307. Yogi,what has my little Russian said?

  308. George – Well I agree with that. Arsene is an excellent manager and we are lucky to have him.

  309. Why don’t we just pay RVP £225,000 a week?

    Because we don’t have the money. Raise 1 player’s wages by 300% (approx) and the other players will want big rises.

    I wonder if you have bills to pay or live with mum & dad?

  310. Arsene isn’t a particularly devisive or polarising figure Bill. It’s just that some have decided they want a new manager.

    If maureen was the manager, or Kenny, or Fat sam.or O’Neill and they hadn’t delivered ‘what the fan wants and Arsenal deserve’ then they would still be flooding the net with their propaganda.

    The media have been after Arsene for years, that’s true, but they need Arsenal fans to help them achieve their end.

    The media, and these ‘fans’ don’t care or know what the Board are asking Arsene to achieve. No. It is all his ‘fault’ that they can’t brag at work and school about ‘winning’.

    Whatever that means in the current climate.

  311. Keysersoze:

    If everything your saying is true then its rather hopeless for Arsenal with its current financial model to ever really expect to hold on to top players. I really do not know the truth but I certainly hope we have the financial muscle to be able to afford a few top players. As Miami suggested it may require a change in our financial priorities with regard to the salary structure but if we don’t do that the future is losing our best players and fighting for 4th on a regular basis. That may be reality but I hope not.

    Conderencier @ 5:08:

    See how long it takes for the Liverpool fans to start calling for Dalglish’s head if what he is trying to do does not bring results.

  312. Why don’t we just pay RVP £225,000 a week?

    Dups ,which sad twat said that?
    I don’t read their posts anymore and miss a lot of the shit.

  313. Ok I realy like this blog (I mean the actual article) but some people who post comments here don’t even want to pay attention when someone (who they deem as antiwenger) is trying to make a point.

    I can’t be here all day long but when I do pop in its like I said earlier some one questions the manager and the person is deemed as not truly a fan…
    AA and some others have some good points to consider but instead of trying to show his argument is wrong (invalid), one sentence from his post is just ridiculed.

    I started supporting this club a while ago (before Wenger), I do appreciate what he has done and in fact still shows he is doing for this club but there are some obvious mistakes that have been made and saying one shouldn’t point them out is pro- Wenger and anti-Arsenal.

    The question is who do you love more?

    I actually read LG articles and make comments from time to time and I came here looking for a more palatable environment but its just too ‘Wenger-loving’ here its more or less as bad; I may not have coached any team but when you see a screw-up, its a screw-up. You don’t need managerial experience for that.

    I’m done (I think)

  314. Bill

    Things will improve when the stadium debt is paid off and the sponsorship deals are renegotiated. Also as the academy flourishes further we will be less dependent on these factors. Till then we have to bite the bullet.

    Or it will improve tomorrow if a billionaire decides to bankroll us. I don’t want to go that way.

  315. There are some defeatist posts on here today.

    If it is true that we cannot afford to pay the wages of top tier players (like RvP for example) we had better get used to not challenging for the lge for a while then. Because to win the lge you need top players. Of that there is no doubt.

    I know that we bring our own players through, but by the time they are at the caliber where they could mount a lge challenge we can’t afford them anymore so will lose them. So we are screwed.

    Is that what people are saying?

    Personally I like to think that the move to the Stadium to bring about a revenue in which we can afford to pay a percentage of our players “top whack”. Is it ridiculous money? Sure it is, but it is what it is. If that is what is needed to compete and it is within our financial capability we should be doing it or we will get left behind and end up like 90’s era Liverpool.

  316. Andy.Please tell me I have not just called you a sad twat?

  317. George

    Was this from Martin

    “RVP is probably the best striker in the world now.And is worth £220k a week along with the likes of Rooney.But will we give it to him this summer?No fucking way.We will take £50m off the likes of Madrid or City who will pay him what he deserves thus weakening the squad even further.
    We have to pay our best players the going rate”

  318. goonerandy

    Probably the defeatist posts that you refer to are mostly from me. Well, the stadium plans didn’t take into account Roman Abramovich or the Sheikh, otherwise we would probably have been much better off in the short term even. These external factors have made the market unsustainable in the short term for clubs that want to live within their means. So, I can see us play catch up for a few more years until the debt is repaid. The academy will go a long way towards bridging the gap. Until then I think we have to suck it up and support the club. Life is seldom fair, we need to deal with it. I don’t think I will get less enjoyment from following Arsenal no matter what happens.

  319. GA

    The move to the new stadium was for the purpose of paying for top talent but that was before the sugar daddies arrival. Since then wages have escalated.

  320. GA

    The move to the new stadium was for the purpose of paying for top talent but that was before the sugar daddies arrival. Since then the world has gone to hell in a handcart.

  321. George – Ha, no mate not me.

    That said, if that that is the going rate and we can afford it. We should not dismiss the notion so quickly. We can’t continue to keep hemorrhaging our best players or we will never make progress. We will just keep replacing and maintaining the status quo, And anybody who has heard 12 Gold Bars will tell you that this is no god thing.

  322. Portsmouth have been issued with a formal winding-up petition by HM Revenue and Customs over millions in unpaid tax.

    That’s what happens when you pay players to much in wages and have no thought for the future of the club.

  323. Keyersoze

    Appreciate the response – and understand that a toe to toe tussle over wages will invariably see us lose because of the power of Madrid / City.

    Juan Mata is an example, on a reported £70k/week at Chelsea, and went for a reported £17 million. This is not a player that is beyond our power. Additionally, I feel your acceptance of defeat when trying to attract these big stars does the club a huge disservice.

    Selling Arsenal, or indeed our project to young rising stars should not be a hard foregone conclusion, we shouldnt have to strike at the end of the window. We are a huge club.

    I’m not suggesting signing players is simple, but my father was a football agent for 20 years, solely responsible for players from the former Yugoslavia and whilst I appreciate the nature of such deals would have changed in the last 15 years (since his last deal), the ability to sign a desired player on previously agreed terms is something our front office, manager and status should achieve.

    Was the stadium move not with the intent to compete in the higher ecehlons of transfers? I know football is an ugly game, Sunderland Villa and Everton all matching or bettering our club record fee, but attracking Goetze (as an example), shouldnt be viewed as this impossible task, because if it is, how will we ever show our current stars and rising stars, we have the much lauded ambition to win trophies?

    As I said earlier, effective use of our season by season resources would put more credence in your position, but the fact we have grown our transfer kitty suggests we have either lost out on every major player we have gone for, or we dont try attract “cat A” players.

    We cant mis out on every player to City / REal / Chelsea.

  324. Dups, thats very very very extremist though.

    No-one is suggesting we should even remotely put ourselves in a position of debt.

  325. Keysersoze – It was not aimed at anybody mate, just putting it our there.

  326. dupsffokcuf

    But Portsmouth have won more trophies than Arsenal in the last 7 years. A lot of people who have posted today would apparently give their left testicle to be in that position.

  327. Cbob @ 5;23:

    IMO our fans are no different then those of any other “big team”. No matter who is the manager be it maureen or anyone else the fans would be unhappy at this point. The biggest problem for Arsene has been that in the first part of his tenure he raised the club to the level of one of the greatest and most successful (in terms of trophies) clubs in the world and fans want that to be the norm. Reality is that it is probably not possible with our financial model. Arsene is the unquestioned leader and architect of everything that is AFC today so when things go right he gets the credit and when things go wrong he gets the blame. Thats human nature and unavoidable. Asking for our fans to be better then the fans of all of the rest of football fans and sports fans in general throughout history is probably not realistic. The fact that he still has as much loyal support is unprecedented in my experience which is why I said he is a polarizing figure.

  328. Our wage bill must be flawed, we offered 19 new contracts last year, reserve team players like Almunia, Diaby, Bendtner, Denilson, Rosicky, Arshavin, Park, Chamakh are not all here on pittance wages, are they? Lets be realistic.

    The wage structure is too flat. I’d much rather have 3/4 superstar earners, and the youth team / reserve teamplayers on wages that represent thier value to the team,not part of a wage structure trying to be fair to all.

  329. “No-one is suggesting we should even remotely put ourselves in a position of debt.”

    Are you so sure about that? Reading some of the comments about paying players 225,000 a week suggests you could be wrong.

  330. Dups, again, very extremist, if we sold irrelevant players who command a combined £100k per week, I see no reason why RVP couldnt benefit and earn £225k. What I’m saying is, it would take an accountancy genius to figure out how our expenditure could remain roughly the same, but pay for the games best striker.

  331. Keysersoze

    1 FA Cup & relegation. Now you’re talking.

  332. Luke said “Was the stadium move not with the intent to compete in the higher ecehlons of transfers? ”

    Dups said “The move to the new stadium was for the purpose of paying for top talent but that was before the sugar daddies arrival. Since then wages have escalated.”

    I say”not to mention the transfer fee for Cat.A players.

    Luke ,the “we moved so we can compete” line is so pathetic that I am surprised you insist on regurgitating it.Even you should see how the world has turned

  333. Luke,Diaby ,Rosisky and Arshavin were not reserve team players when the were given their contracts.
    Your argument is crap.
    You assume that you could manage the wage bill more effectively than the people who do so.
    I would bet my house that you could not do anything any better than any employee of Arsenal does.Even clean the toilets.

  334. dupsffokcuf

    And Harry Redknapp as manager. Triffic guy, always looking for transfer deals.

  335. Luke

    Where do you draw the line on who is a top player. RVP, Kos, TV, Jack, Sagna. Who gets 225,000 and who don’t?

    Even if defenders are paid less you would still need to increase their wages hugely.

  336. Ok I realy like this blog (I mean the actual article) but some people who post comments here don’t even want to pay attention when someone (who they deem as antiwenger) is trying to make a point.

    I can’t be here all day long but when I do pop in its like I said earlier some one questions the manager and the person is deemed as not truly a fan…
    AA and some others have some good points to consider but instead of trying to show his argument is wrong (invalid), one sentence from his post is just ridiculed.

    I started supporting this club a while ago (before Wenger), I do appreciate what he has done and in fact still shows he is doing for this club but there are some obvious mistakes that have been made and saying one shouldn’t point them out is pro- Wenger and anti-Arsenal.

    The question is who do you love more?

    I actually read LG articles and make comments from time to time and I came here looking for a more palatable environment but its just too ‘Wenger-loving’ here its more or less as bad; I may not have coached any team but when you see a screw-up, its a screw-up. You don’t need managerial experience for that.

    I’m done (I think).

  337. All that wheeling & dealing he done for Pompey and they still end up in the shit. Poor Arry (sorry it’s Henry Redknapp really) not his fault.

  338. The biggest problem for Arsene has been that in the first part of his tenure he raised the club to the level of one of the greatest and most successful (in terms of trophies) clubs in the world and fans want that to be the norm.

    i agree but then again that aint wenger;s problem …thats the dumb@ss fans problem..they are the ones who cant seperate eras and judge situation from situation…..thing is we need their money …hehe..

    burn them…whenever some loser idiot boos next to you or in front of you ..boo him back,,single them out…ask them to step outside..embarass them..ridicule them…” what the f*ck are you booing at you cretin? do u see all this around you? ..get the fuck out before i kick you out” ….

    i agree with kori and jonny ….its a war now.

  339. Where have I made that assumption George?

  340. You should be done (I think).

  341. Fanboy ,Are you done or not?
    Dont let us keep you.Off you pop

  342. Cesc ara

    Graham won 6 trophies in 9 years

    Wenger 7 in 14.

  343. Keysersoze:

    We have been waiting for several years now for European football to be crushed by its mountain of debt. So far it seems to be going the other way. The scenario you hope for with Arsenal could be years away or it might never happen. We were told we could start spending more money once the stadium debt got under control and we sold off the property. That has already happened, and now we are waiting for the stadium to get paid off. We have no idea what the new owners intentions for the club are, and its very tough to understand where the club is going.

  344. Sorry cesc, I should have expanded on that little bit of history who clearly have no f**king clue about.

  345. Ahh, there goes PG cementing my point. Take one line from a post and try to make the person seem idiotic.

    I’m still here if you realy care

  346. Yes Cesc .you cant possibly be as good a fan as Luke if you don’t wank over GG.
    You disrespectful scaly-wag.

  347. Cesc ara

    Graham won 6 trophies in 9 years

    Wenger 7 in 14.

    you can keep your bangers and mash mate…i prefer chaviar and fillets … and i certainly dont like traitors ( george graham : manager of totenham 98-2001) hehe eat shit ..wenger stays for life..luckily the people who own the club have a brain …unlike some of our fans….

  348. That comment by Neville was in poor taste. Does a footballer plying his trade in England have to like English women before he’s considered down for the cause?
    Mind you Arshavin has a partner and 2 kids. And yet no-one has chastised Neville for making those comments.

  349. Fanboy,trust me ,you don’t need my help to appear idiotic.Your posts do it for you.

  350. Income from property sales are not counted towards FFP calculation because it is not football revenue as far as I know. That is an important factor in the scheme of things.

  351. I don’t even think Luke agree’s with what he say’s. He seems to just to cut against the grain just to do it.

    But for a last and this season, RVP would be on his list of who we are just paying for no reason.

    Kiss mi granny!

    If not for the Billionaire teams and those who spend what they don’t have, Arsene would have dwarfed all others as far as Trophies. Fergie is good but people minimize how the ref’s have helped United. If not for them, he wouldnt be nearly as great. Unfortunately, It does not even up at the end of the day.

  352. Count up how much Slur Alex has paid for his team ,and tell me again why I should consider him great?
    Luke could have won it with United.
    Why does anyone think that the biggest club in the whole wide world,dominating its own domestic league,and absolutely nothing else,is a great achievement?Lets see how dominant they are over City in the next few years ,When they are the ones being outspent and unable to gather all the other teams best players under their banner.
    United worshipers are just too stupid to listen to.

  353. CA – “im off to play football in the rain for my u14 team …i will deal with you later …. cunt…

    A terrifying thought.

    Internet Warriors and all that

  354. George – “and absolutely nothing else,is a great achievement?

    Apart from a couple of CL wins you mean?

  355. Cesc_ara

    George lost 1 cup final out of 5.Under Wenger we lost 5 out of 9.Three of those losses we were LEADING.So much for mental strength eh?.How dare George send out teams to WIN games.What a tosser i want losing football but with plenty of pitty patty sideways football

    And by the way Pat Jennings and Sol Campbell never played for Spurs did they?

  356. I don’t get all the dislike of GG. He was one of our most successful managers ever. Weird.

  357. I’m with you Luke…I think we should just go all the way with it…sell everybody – pick up Ronaldo and Messi for 90mill each – put them on 400,000 pounds a week…fill out the other positions with lads from the blue-square, (who cares? We’ve got Ronaldo AND Messi!!!) We’ll win the league and the CL and the media will love us because we spent money and…oh wait…

  358. Andy as the biggest club in the world ,and they were completely out played in the two they won,is that dominating Europe?
    No?
    So nothing else was dominated then?Was it?
    Or what?

  359. Axis – Don’t be a dick. Nobody is suggesting anything like that. Such a childish response.

  360. the infighting has to stop..
    a house divided cannot stand…

    good post yogi..

    the arsene we know has never been without flaws and the arsene we know will get us out of this shit..
    if he doesnt..and it gets worse, then it is time for a change but i doubt any other manager can cope with the fact he has to make a profit on transfers every year and realistically gun for trophies..

    we are basically wanting a manager who can balance satisfying the boards demand for profits and well as the fans demand for success…

    its not exactley been success but as long as he kept us in europe it was working..

    i doubt that kroenke has any intention on giving the manager the money we know is available..this manager or any other manager..

    im basically saying that any new manager we are looking for needs to be arsenes clone and i dont know all that many i can name in this instance..

    this is all my opinion of course..if wenger fails and he is sacked and a new man comes in and spends 70mil on his own players then we’ll know that it was wenger who was beginning to struggle
    on the other hand if wenger fails and he isnt sacked, or he walks away and a new man comes in and its the same story as every other window then its the board..

    we wont know for sure until the summer

  361. George

    Fergie is the greatest manager of all time.He took on Abramovichs Chelsea who spent 4 times as much as Utd and has won 4 out of the last 5 titles plus a CL win.
    Look how much City have spent yet he is only 3 pts behind and we all know from experience Utds season starts with 10 games to go.

  362. Who dislikes GG Andy?
    Name me one person who has said anything like that ,or spot being a dick
    And don’t say Cesc because he most certainly has not.

  363. Bradys right foot

    consolsbob | January 24, 2012 at 5:23 pm, top post mate.

    I laugh and cry almost in equal measure as some of the rubbish published online seems to be taken seriously. We are still in the champions league, we are still in the FA cup and we are still in with a good shout of 4th place and have 4 maybe 5 first team players back in two weeks. Nothing has been decided yet apart from the burning of Arshavin at the stake. Is it going to be a vintage season no, the trauma of the summer reverberated long and hard but its far from over and plenty left to fight for.

  364. Dan

    Pat & Sol saw the error of their ways though and joined The Arsenal.

  365. George – “Andy as the biggest club in the world ,and they were completely out played in the two they won,is that dominating Europe?
    No?
    So nothing else was dominated then?Was it?
    Or what?

    Well, they have won every competition they have entered so what else would you suggest. Proclaim themselves a country and enter the world cup? And to be outplayed and win is the sign of a successful team I would say. Seriously mate, we really don’t hold the moral high ground when it comes to trophies and Manure I am afraid. They have won titles back to back, we have not. They have won in Europe, we have not.

    Not that I give a flying fuck about Manure, you are the one saying Ferguson is not a great manager. Which is a bit silly to be honest. You don’t consistently win over 20 odd years and not be a great manager.

  366. Dan .You are an idiot.
    He outspent Chelsea to get back what they took by outspending him for a couple of seasons.
    His squad is made up of huge financial outlays.
    “Fergie is the greatest manager of all time.” Like fuck he is you plumb

  367. Andy .
    They should as the biggest club in the world dominate their own domestic league.
    You don’t think so?
    Look at every other league and tell me that the biggest team does not dominate .Are all their managers also “great”?
    WTF.?

  368. So the finals we lost is down to mental weakness?

    How does that make sense for to win even one, takes mental toughness. To get to a final takes mental toughness.

    Are you saying the team was not mentally tough when we lost to Barca iby 2-1 n the CL Final, down a man for almost the whole match?

    Dont be simple!

  369. Is there only me thinking this United worship is a crock of shit?

  370. George – When he took over at the helm there they were still one of the largest clubs in World Football, but had been largely shite for 20 odd years. The big teams are big teams simply because they do dominate. Liverpool had a decent shout to be the “biggest” club in England through the 80’s, but where are they now? You are making yourself sound daft mate.

    Is Ferguson the best manager ever? probably not, but he would be up there. Most certainly one of the most successful managers anyway. The red nosed cunt that he is.

  371. Paul N.I respect you 100% .But I just wish you could tell them to fuck off.
    You are too good a man to have to deal with these arseholes.

  372. George – It is not United worship. You came out with a statement which was blatantly daft and I have responded. I hate Manure with a passion, but their success speaks for itself.

  373. Bollocks Andy.
    The most wealthy clubs dominate .
    That United didn’t was because Liverpool have the backing of the pools company.United only ousted them when their spending power out grew Liverpools.
    Liverpool was also based on superior spending power for 30 years.

  374. Andy

    During the 20 years Sluralex has spent spending vast amounts of money on players. Veron, Ferdinand, Rooney were all well over 20 million apiece. Then there was Berbatop, Carrick, Anderson & Nani.

  375. Bit of dodgy typing there but you get the drift.

  376. I forgot about Mike Riley in that.

  377. I am not saying that wealthier clubs don’t dominate. That is common sense, but your argument about Ferguson is ridiculous. If it is that easy why don’t Manure just get rid of him and employ Ian fucking Dowie? He would be cheaper, just as ugly, and seeing as Manure are wealthy they would probably just carry on winning, no?

    The backing of the Pool’s? What on earth are you on about. Liverpool played great football, that is why they were so good.

  378. didnt GG lose a final against luton??
    and didnt we get beat by wrexham as well in the FA cup??

    i dont get why we have to degrade wenger by comapring him to GG just as much as i dont like degrading GG comparing him to wenger..

  379. dont think i will bother going to the Emirates again, every fuckers got more dosh then us.
    Boo Hoo!

  380. dups – Yeah, I know he has. And why wouldn’t he? The club can afford it.

    If you all honestly believe that it is 100% money that decides things we are screwed really. I don’t however. A club can only have so many players (i.e, they can’t have all the best players). You get what you can, and then that is when the manager earns the cash.

    Lok at Manure’s last few titles. They have not had the bets players by any stretch of the imagination, but have still won the lge (easily in some cases). This is because Ferguson gets the best out of the players, simple as that. The year after and before our 2004 lge win, we had far better players than Manure IMO. Didn’t win though.

  381. Bradys right foot

    Ferguson is a great manager. Yes he’s spent an absolute fortune compared to Arsene in a year on year comparison and made some hugely expensive epic fails in the transfer market but he’s not perfect much like our own manager, great yes but perfect no. To put it another way I don’t think he could have done what Arsene has done with us on the same budget.

  382. George:

    Yogi’s post on Sunday makes the point that Fergie has won several trophies in the last few years with squads that were not as good as the teams he has beaten. Fergie has lots of financial muscle but his ability to get the best out of the his players even when they are not as good as his competition is what makes him a great manager.

  383. JJ – didnt GG lose a final against luton??

    We did. Mark fucking Stein. How I wept as well.

  384. Bill – Heh, you said what I was trying to much better. 🙂

  385. dont forgrt Aberdeen………hang on a minute have i fallen into a Manure blog?

  386. Fine…I’ll be more explicit.

    Talking about the complexities of managing a multi-billion pound organization as well as a 25-man team implies an ocean of variables that we simply cannot quantify on a blog, (no offense Yogi…) I don’t have any problems with questions or negative opinions, I don’t hide my AKB very much, and I don’t demand that anyone else is an AKB, but talking about football management as if it was a role playing game annoys the shit out of me. “He has the money why won’t he just level-up the midfield? He must want the team to fail.” Is just silly talk and that is unfortunately the tone of many of the negative voices here. I’m not putting you in any category because I’ve very often found you reasonable in your questioning. Still, if Wenger did everything folks want and the Sheik’s money was in London rather than in Manchester, success is still not guaranteed. Man City does not have the best player in the world in every position; all star-teams rarely work.

    Yes, it’s very exciting to sign big money power-house players…but that’s not how teams are made. Teams are delicate things that come from spirit, personality, and time to gel…not millions of pounds at each position. I’d love to hear someone acknowledge that building a successful team is closer to cooking than chemistry…it’s an art, not plug and play and upgrade, like building a computer.

    And speaking of cooking…there’s a lot of people on here who think they know what it is to MANAGE because they UNDERSTAND a lot about football. That’s very much like saying that I can COOK because I’m very good at TASTING. They have nothing to do with each other. Seeing raw ingredients and building a flavor is nothing like sitting after and saying that the flavor ought to have a bit more this or that. You may judge the flavor, (all of us), but never think that makes you a cook.

    It is in this light that I can comfortably say that there are precious few who do it better than Wenger, and we’d be very foolish to kick him out, because he hasn’t yet got the flavor right. We judge it, and rightly so…Wenger himself has said so repeatedly.

    So, even though I don’t like the flavor either, (I want to win as well,)

    you won’t see me grabbing the salt…I’ll offer my qualified opinion, and gratefully wait for the next Wenger dish.

  387. Bradys Right Foot:

    No one disputing that Arsene has done amazing things on the budget he used. He is an amazing talent and remarkably charismatic man. The fact that he built a squad that was arguably the best in the league in the last couple of years is truly amazing given the financial disadvantages that he faced. I doubt anyone else in the world could have done that.

  388. Stop talking shit.Bill
    Ferdinand ,Rooney,Nanni,Anderson,Berbatov were in those teams and they all cost a fucking fortune in their day.
    And as Paul said The refs give them a 15 point start.
    Fergie would have won fuck all without his spending power.
    And it took him quite some time to buy it as well as I recall

  389. Fergie owes much of his success to the ref’s. I don’t give a blow wow what anyone say’s. When a team can go a whole season without a pen being called on them at home, something is up.

    George, mi bredrin, I feel like going off sometimes trust me. There has been some real silly stuff over the past few day’s.

    JJ, if the support is to come together, that must be behind the team. How can you be one with people who suck confidence from the team they claim to support?

  390. Bradys right foot

    When we took the field against them in the cl semi finals a few years bak our entire squad cost less than one of Utds players that night.

  391. BRF yes and less than several of United’s individual players at that.

  392. The thing about having big spending power is that it allows you some leeway. If a rich club buys a player for £30 million and he’s a dud they can buy another. We are not in that category, we need to build our players into stars (with the odd 10-15 million buy).

  393. “didnt GG lose a final against luton??
    and didnt we get beat by wrexham as well in the FA cup??

    i dont get why we have to degrade wenger by comapring him to GG just as much as i dont like degrading GG comparing him to wenger”.

    Couldn’t agree more. Same goes for players

  394. Its not 100% money with United it is also partly refs and talent. You cannot say the man has no talent but the other factors are overlooked way too much.

    Wenger is the best manager in the world!

  395. Andy,did you miss this?

    pedantic george | January 24, 2012 at 7:05 pm
    Who dislikes GG Andy?
    Name me one person who has said anything like that ,or spot being a dick
    And don’t say Cesc because he most certainly has not.

  396. i think its a two way street paul..
    there was no need for the booing at the weekend..
    but if we look deeper its basically built up frustration of what is happening at the club..

    if we look what happened over the summer..it was a total farce..
    added to the fact that the club raised the tickets prices and youve got alot of pissed off gooners just waiting for the shit to hit the fan so they could blow..

    they blew at the weekend..

    the club need to do something or it will not fix itself…when you have gooners booing the manager for his decisions and the infighting between the fans reaching boiling point then something has to give..

    somebody at the club needs to do something or say something…the silence is deafening though and the longer it goes on and the club continues to faulter the worse it will get..

  397. How can anyone say we are a club that big players don’t wanna come too???? That’s not our problem, we cannot afford them but they never refused us. This summer for example what big player turned us down? Nasri was sold,Fabregas was sold. Phil jones turned us Down for United but he’s not a big player. Chelsea bid more for Mata but he’s certainly not world class yet. Hazard,m’villa and Goetez and podolski has said yes to nobody yet. Ans nobody knows anything about what they want xvept for what papers says.
    It’s mad to suggest we cann

  398. One thing that United has done well is have the continuity. Many Arsenal player’s dissed the team when we were about to dominate again and they have suffered for it. Right Ade, Flamini and Hleb (with your silly snide look)?

    They were stars with Arsenal and now they are not much. Ade has a little name but nothing like when he was wearing the red and white. Silly individuals.

  399. George @ 7:41:

    “Stop talking shit.Bill
    Ferdinand ,Rooney,Nanni,Anderson,Berbatov were in those teams and they all cost a fucking fortune in their day.”

    Everything you say is true but despite all of that I agree with Yogi’s post on Sunday. At least on paper we had a more talented squad last season and arguably the season before compared with United. If not better then certainly equal in talent. This year is different.

    Fergie would not be the same without his spending power because he does not have Wenger’s ability to find talent so he has to spend. No one disputes that.

    What makes Fergie good is that he takes a team filled with players like JS Park, Fletcher, O-shea, Carrick, aging Paul Scholes and Giggs etc and wins trophies.

    btw: DB10, TH14 etc etc. also cost a lot of money at the time we got them.

  400. You don’t have to be winning things to attract top players .But you do have to pay them outrageous wages.
    Times have changed and the world has turned.

  401. Bill he is still reaping the rewards of his huge investments .
    How can you not see that.
    Add up how much he has spent on his current team,
    Also BRF gives you
    “When we took the field against them in the cl semi finals a few years bak our entire squad cost less than one of Utds players that night.”
    And that was only two years ago

  402. How can anyone say we are a club that big players don’t wanna come too???? That’s not our problem, we cannot afford them but they never refused us. This summer for example what big player turned us down? Nasri was sold,Fabregas was sold. Phil jones turned us Down for United but he’s not a big player. Chelsea bid more for Mata but he’s certainly not world class yet. Hazard,m’villa and Goetez and podolski has said yes to nobody yet. And nobody knows anything about what they want xvept for what papers says.
    It’s mad to suggest we cannot attract big names. We can and we will. If we laied 250k a week all absolutely all the stars at City would go arsenal over city.
    And moaning about us paying the likes of Diaby, Denilson etc 50 k a week. That’s the going rate in PL ATM. Ireland is on 70k a week at Aston villa. The united kids are all on 45-50k a week. Gibson was at 45k a week. It’s not unheard of. Average top 6 players are on 50k plus. That’s just life.

    On the bright side. A team consistent of jack, Aaron,Oxo, Gibbs, Frimpong. And Bartely, Landsbury afobe and yennaris waiting in the wings. We got that British steel core you all moan about soon.
    My personal opinion is ofc that we did alot better wih all the frenchys in our team. But the boss listens to suga and acrylic and Jabba and aic and give them English. Still they moan…

  403. TH cost half of what we sold Anelka for .
    So he cost half a top player at the time.
    Arsene did not buy Dennis

  404. Bill

    An example of Ferguson’s spending came with Fake Ronaldo. We almost had him signed for 4.5 million (even wearing our shirt). Then Manure put in a bid of 12.5 million. Almost 3 times as much. Rest is history.

  405. Dupps @ 7:50:

    “The thing about having big spending power is that it allows you some leeway. If a rich club buys a player for £30 million and he’s a dud they can buy another. We are not in that category, we need to build our players into stars (with the odd 10-15 million buy).”

    Absolutely true. However, we have the best talent evaluators and scouts in the world, much better then Fergie has. Thats why I think its worth the risk for us now. The reward for hitting a home run with a big player is huge and given our ability to get it right, I think the risk is worth taking. We could really use another top notch goal scorer and they don’t often come for $10M in todays transfer market. .

  406. Bradys right foot

    I think the point is UTD can push the boat out and make a few blunders in the transfer market and go back in again. We have spent nothing in net terms in recent years, fans want instant results.

    Kozzer is going to be an Arsenal legend but the boo boys castigated Arsenal for wasting 8 million on him cheerleader in chief the cnuts over at Le Grove. In the perverse world we live in the same fans would have been happy if we’d have spent double that last year on Cahill or bought Luis for 23 million as if the higher the price the more it comforts the fans. The Liverpool fans must feel great the about Carroll. Spend some effing moneyffs really?, Buy the right player.

  407. what happens if a bunch of pissed off gooners on the fanshare decide to team up with uzmanov?

    hes at 29.something % already..if he gets over the 30 is he on the board??
    can he mount a hostile takeover??

    id be interested to know how it works but i dont reckon stans got his feet quite far enough under the table yet to start fucking about with the club and making the fans ask questions about his ideas for the future…

  408. Nice write up Yogi

    I agree, its a collective effort and collectively we have been poor for weeks. maybe thats down to having to rely on the same players as the squad isnt good enough or big enough? The injuries have taken their toll, but that shit gets rolled out every season!

    What is a real concern is the length of time it took the team to come out of their pit of doom and despair last season. In fact, they enevr came out of it and it went on for 3 effin months! Song has been out of form for some time while Arshavin is somewhere else, well he might as well be (sorry Georgey!) The fact he still hasnt returned to anything like his old self has to be a worry. We’ve missed Arteta and the fact he’s been ever present since he signed showes his importance to this team. The sad thing is, he shouldnt be the main man, he should be one of them.

    Wenger deserves all the credit in the world and nuff respect, but he also deserves criticism sometimes too and its not like those who aint jibberin doomers havent been suggesting the team needs adding to, for some time now. Yet that shit aint allowed.

    🙂

  409. Praise for Slurgus? Check.

    Praise for Maureen? Still waiting!

  410. Axis. 7.38pm. Excellent.

  411. Kiss my Bebes.

  412. @JJ then we become a bought oil club like Chelsea and City. A club that spends for the sake of spending that maybe win a trophy or two, even more.
    Yet a hollow and soulless club that is nothing but a rich mans play thing… Where everyone lives and dies by Usmanov. I think we will be much like Chelsea…

  413. I can’t even get with that JJ, it makes no sense for they started to boo when the game was tied. Who the heck are they to dictate what Arsene should do?

    As far as over the summer, please read what Yogi said in this very article. You and I don’t know what took place, so why the need to behave as if we are in the board room?

    Is it possible that we had 3 targets before Arteta and it didn’t work out?

    Ticket prices? that you don’t have to buy? paying for something, never gives you a right to act like a jerk. If you don’t like the service, move along.

    Frustration? people have missed the whole point of supporting a team is more like it. It comes with ups and downs.

    People need to get a grip and get behind the team.

  414. Bradys right foot

    Fins was told an interesting story about Bepes signing from a native Manc when it happened last year. Nothing i could repeat on an online forum but it came as no surprise that he was shipped in and the shipped out.

  415. but honestly guys. Look at the front line up the next 3 years. with Wilshere, with Ramsey, with Theo with Oxo, with Frimpong. And then Gibbs and Yennaris and Jenkinson..

    When did we last have such a generation of young decent english players in the club?? And when did half of them join us age 16 or younger??
    They are no mercenaries, they are fans or grown up with the club…
    They are every fans wet dream!
    They are what we have always waited for. We dont want to buy stars we want our own stars. The stars that has grown up the arsenal way. That loves the club. Not someone who sells his soul to the highest bidder…
    And what other top 4 club currently have that many exciting young englishmen in their setup? Its only us and United….
    United has always produced but we do produce properly for the first time now.. and its mighty exciting..

  416. The wonder of Bebe. Maybe he was signed and sold by the Manc chairman? Nothing to do with Slurgus. Nope:

  417. The best I can do at present is watch on TV and people actually go to the stadium and boo when the game is in the balance. That is beyond daft.

  418. Axis,that was true when the field was only a little distorted.And God knows I wish it was so.
    Chelsea and City have buried that dream I am sorry to say.
    Roman bought a squad to finish above the Invincibles.
    That was prof positive that money talks louder than anything.

  419. Bradys right foot

    No Fins i’ll leave it like this their is a trail from Portugal to Manchester agents and clauses sell on bonuses paid to people.

    Poodle weve got Campbell and Ryo to add to the list of young talent to come through.

  420. Bored? Here is some transfer tittle tattle: I have it on not so good authority that our guest from Flanders on Sunday, in spite of the inspiring booing, preferes the vibes in London to, say, Madrid. Apparently he’s not a fan of nouveau/neo-galactico clubs. Hence the move to Lille. He’s in no rush.

    I have a sneaky suspicion that the friend who is my exclusive source for all things to do with Belgium & chocolate would like to see an Arsenal team with as many players from the lowlands as possible. Not sure if I’d believe him.

  421. BRF

    Ah the old Portugeezer connection. At least Nani turned out to be a footballer!

  422. I agree with both of Paul’s last posts

  423. BRF:

    Andy Carroll and David Luiz are busts. It happens. However the reward if you get it right when spending that sort of money are huge. I think Arsene and his team can get it right. If we swing and miss, based on everything we are told it would not put us into financial trouble and since we have not been spending that money anyway it does not really change anything. If we do it once or even twice it does not put us on the road to the dark side forever.

  424. George, Mourinho built a team…another great manager. [Negative in his tactics, but ‘special’]

    The managers who have been through there amounts to a short list of the best in the world baring Wenger and Fergie…if money was ALL it took. Hughes would still be at Man City.

  425. George, I have been agreeing with you all day bro!

  426. Frank…thank you.

  427. The latest figures I have seen is £40 million.
    Now we need to make provision for not qualifying for the CL.
    So that might mean £20 million
    So who does that but you give wages are to be included in that figure?

  428. easier said than done paul..

    when ppl start to feel that somethings not right, and hasnt been right for a while…whether its right or wrong its natural to become detatched and even annoyed..

    its something weve spoke about alot on here in the past..me especially..

    the way the modern games gone the fans are now being treated as customers..when your customers start to feel aggreived those customers will start to kick off..

    you cant treat your fans as customers and then expect those customers to suddenly become hardcore fans when the shit hits the fan..

  429. I gotta give big ups to ArsenalAndrew, that post earlier was pure class. If you have not read it go back and do so. Along the way up, stop and read the comments from Frank, Mr. Bob and ZimPaul also. Some good stuff!

  430. Poodle:

    We already have Wilshere, Ox etc etc etc so why not use our money to give them the best team possible around them and give them the best possible chance to win. Wouldn’t it be exciting for them and us if we brought in another goal scorer and a creative midfielder. Nothing is certain but it would sure be great if we over took Spurs, won the FA cup this year and won the league next season. Could set us up for years of domination. However, we need to get that first one so why not do every thing we can to improve the chances of getting it.

  431. I agree with Paul N ( I respect your christianity by the way…mine hasn’t been stong enough to prevent me from swearing at the doomers ) and Pedantic George

  432. Axis ,I would love to agree with you.Honestly I would love to believe.
    But history has now proven it not to be the case.
    Hughes would have done it at City if he had been kept on.Prick that he is.He was only sacked because they wanted a “name” to accompany their new advert.

  433. poodle

    Yet a hollow and soulless club that is nothing but a rich mans play thing..

    too true well said..

    but isnt that what we are turning into under kroenke??

    ones lucifer..ones beelsebub..

    time will tell but if it turns out stan is right royally fucking us then whos the other option??

  434. My respect for Paul has nothing to do with his Christianity.
    I have neither respect nor disrespect for religion.But I have great respect for good people.

  435. JJ is complaining about being treated as a customer and ironically ,by complaining like a dissatisfied customer

  436. Seems AW turned down a very large offer to manage PSG. Respect to the man for sticking around.

  437. Dups he has turned down loads of offers and he is disrespected by halfwit pricks in the house he built for them.
    I despise them to a man.

  438. JJ, they booed the team with the game to be won. Come on bro!

    Isn’t it funny, no one had this “customer” syndrome when we were on our winning streak?

    As I have said, if people don’t like how they are being treated then don’t go.

    Here is the problem with that though and the hypocrisy that arises from it. The more players get paid, the less it is likely for supporters to feel a part of the whole. That is a natural progression as far as I see it, that’s what big money does. Also, someone has to pay for it. The irony is that so many on hear are saying that we should compete with the big spenders as far as spending and salaries.

    Do you see where I am going with this?

  439. George

    They complain about a player who leaves thinking the grass is greener, then act the same way as the player when thinking about a manager change.

  440. I can’t argue with your conviction of a possible future…if you believe that anyone given enough money can buy a title then there’s no common ground for a conversation on this point, and you can’t say that history has borne this out in the same breath as you express this conviction based on something that never happened but you are convinced would have.

  441. no im not george read my posts again..
    put your glasses on it will help..

  442. Paul ,I do.And it is a great point

  443. Anyway…I think you and I are in violent-agreement for the most part.

  444. Axis , Chelsea, City and United are the history I am talking about.
    I really do want to believe you know.
    I just think oil money has tilted the balance too far.

  445. Talking Tactics with Stewart Robson.

    Wish we could get the daft turd off Arsenal.com. He bores me.

  446. …and I hear your point, I’m only noting that those clubs have also had exceptional managers…

  447. paul
    why are you talking to me like i agreed with the booing…

    theres nothing in what your saying to me that i dont already understand and dont really disagree with..
    if youve read anything ive wrote over the last few days you will know that im more your ally then some dipstick who wants his moneys worth..

    all im saying is that its not all that black and white..if people think the club have been innocent bystanders in all this ‘mutiny’ then they aint really seeing whats happening..

    it goes back to what poodle hinted at previously..
    soul
    its not like we are the motown of the premier league is it..
    everyones fucked off..the managers getting abused everyones calling everyone else a cunt..nobody has a sooby whats stans game is…

    the question is are the fans solely responsible for all this ‘mess’ and the answer is definatley no….

    thats all im saying..

  448. I could manage City and be a great success.And I know fuck all about fuck all.

  449. Look at this
    One is in the world team of the year and the other us a useless fat lazy waster.Go figure?

    IN 2010/11: Gareth Bale: 41 apps, 11 goals, 4 assists. —– Andrei Arshavin: 48 apps, 10 goals, 17 assists

  450. My last comment on this.

    JJ, first and foremost the fans were giving the team hell last eason. I remember people wanted to demostrate and all that nonsense and all of this while the PL title was still within reach. Do you remember that?

    The fans had no right to act a fool on Sunday, regardless of what they did not like. The game was there to be won, you support the blasted team. I could only imagine the boost it gave the United player’s.

    So you may not agree but you seem to sympathize. I don’t.

  451. George;

    “I just think oil money has tilted the balance too far.”

    You might be right. I don’t think we will ever build a dominant team like 2004 but if we continue to develop our young players and use the transfer market as much as we can to supplement our home grown players then we can certainly challenge City or United and we will win things occasionally. All we can ask from management is that we give the players their best possible chance to succeed using the resources we have available.

  452. “All we can ask from management is that we give the players their best possible chance to succeed using the resources we have available.”
    Here is the difference Bill.I think Arsene does just that.You don’t.
    I believe in him 100% .You don’t
    That does not make me a better person or fan ,by the way.
    But it makes me happy.

  453. Also despite the current sea swell against him.I believe in Andrei Arshavin.
    Wonderful player and wonderful young man.A credit to the football world.

  454. lol…alright bro…truce declared.

  455. ive said many times the game was there to be won
    the booing was counter productive

    but if anyones expecting the fanbase not to be fucked off after what happened in the summer and what has happened in january then im sorry to say the world aint that kinda place..

    i too can name an example that you will remember..

    at the start of the season when we were in the deepest of shit the fanbase was to a man totally behind the team…we were losing left right and centre and everyone was worried but the team was supported…

    they continued to be supported until wenger said it would be silly to lose games because we dont have a left back and part two of august happened again in january..

    the fans have turned..and they didnt turn at the beginning of this run..the support was there..and we still lost points…is that the fans fualt?? really??? weve taken one point from 15 is it?? and not once has there been a boo..until this weekend..

    also ….the supports always been there for arshavin..he was the signing everyone now craves for..he was everyones first name on the team sheet for a long time.we all wanted arshavin….his form isnt the fualt of the support being bad..the support for him has turned bad because of his decline..wenger didnt put him on the fringes cos of the fans support..he did it cos of his own form..

    you cant blame the fans for everything..its not the truth..im not sympathising with anything i just dont agree that everythings the fans fault when the support has been there all season and weve still lost 8 games….

  456. George @ 9:46:

    Fair enough.

  457. So when .for whatever reason, a hero’s form declines it is ok to boo him?
    Is that what you are saying JJ?
    Do you think he want to be less of a player?
    I would like to kick the shit out of every cunt who booed him.I fucking detest the bastards.
    Its not all right.Its all fucking wrong.They are all wrong.Cretins to a man.

  458. Not that it’s been said here today but one of the oft suggested, despicable and stupid lines of attack I have heard levelled against Wenger is the idea that he doesn’t care about the club. Believe he got stuff wrong by all means (who doesn’t) but for anyone to expect to be taken seriously after saying something so visibly, tangibly untrue and patently absurd is about as ludicrous/dumb/unpleasant as it gets.

    Y’know what? We could pay him 10 times his salary and he’d still be the best signing this club ever made.

  459. Jonny you have been stellar these last few days.

  460. Yogi .sorry for any outbursts

  461. again george where did i say that??

    and arshavin wasnt booed..wenger was booed…
    and it wouldnt have sat easy in arshavins stomach knowing the fans didnt want him on the pitch but wenger hasnt wanted him on the pitch for the majority of this season and wenger said there was a tactical error made in the game but he defends his taking off of oxo??
    so who made the tactical error…the manager hung arshavin out to dry…and that wouldnt have sat easy in arshavins stomach either..

    if you go back though the comments on the day when the substitution was made i believe i said something like confused.com..but come on arshavin..

    my support didnt wain..im in the same trench as you..

    but this is the point im also making…comments like yours…its little wonder why the fans are at eachothers throats..blaming eachother…wanting to fight..

    looking in the wrong direction im afriad..like i said before..havent really heard all that many negative vibes from the fans in the ground this season..unitl sunday..but weve still lost 8 and shipped a shed load of goals and not really played all that well all season..

    its all been about the ‘spirit’ of the team than the abilities and now the spirits gone..

    but i guess weve ran out of refs to blame so lets blame the fans eh?? nothing to do with whats going on actually inside the club..

  462. JJ i know full well you are not one of the cretins.
    But like Paul I get the impression that you feel somehow they are justified.
    They are not.
    Andrei looked gutted before he kicked a ball.
    And he had been on the up.
    And I don’t give a flying what people make of my entrenched position .I really would do violence towards them.

  463. Bill, the job of the manager is to do what he thinks is right, that’s it. He is not there to appease players or supporters at all. If the supporters or the player’s feel they know best, let them take over a team and show us all how great they are.

    Nothing is wrong with listening to advice but show me a manager that is trying to appease and I will show you a failure.

  464. Jonny:

    I really don’t understand the point of getting into internet virtual fist fights. Do you really think it helps anyone or changes anyones mind. It just makes the “doomers” did their heels in deeper and escalates the whole fan civil war that has been growing for the last few years so it actually seems counterproductive. It ends any chance for a logical discussion that might actually change someones mind.

  465. Outbursts George? As far as I can tell it’s been business as usual. Dexter was a bit of collateral damage earlier but that’s sorted from my side, at least.

  466. Bill its the disrespect I cant stomach .Not the difference of opinion.
    These people are cunts in all walks of life.You must have met enough people to know that yourself.
    Why should we tolerate low life scum?

  467. Bill

    I can assure you that the contents of the ACLF trash bin reveal that bile and bitterness far outweighs logical discussion.

  468. Hmmm, as long as it doesnt happen again YW… 🙂

    George

    You need to drink some camamile tea dude, chill aaaart man.

  469. Yes, booing at 1-1 with everything to play for is shameful and chanting “you don’t know what you’re doing” at AW is a complete disgrace. Such disrespect really upsets and dispirits me.

    Hopefully GA was right at 1:29–a few wins on the bounce and the air get cleared, but this already happened once this season. Can the atmosphere be improved after becoming so dark, so quickly, so fiercely?

    There hasn’t been much point commenting the last few days. No real conversation and more of the civil war. Supporters should exercise some restraint in the ground and on the call ins–what good is going to come of it for Arsenal? AW deserves respect and this season is far from over. Of course, I’m depressed too and feel like something has broken in the club, among the support, certainly between the club and the support. I hope it isn’t a fateful moment for our annual second half set backs. But, it is getting toxic. We aren’t strengthening the team. We have to hope the returnees come back from injury ready to make a big, big difference. We’re dropping points we can’t afford to. But there is only one way out of this mess and that is for the players to dig deep, pull together and fight hard to get to 4th, to win the FA cup, and to go deep in the CL. It would help if the temperature cooled down.

    7amkickoff once said very ingeniously that there are two kinds of Arsenal supporters: those that love to hate the team/manager and those who love to hate Arsenal supporters. Days like the last few seem to confirm it with the civil war back on.

  470. Bradys right foot

    The gooniverse needs to move on, yes the substitution has fueled the haters but there always on the look out to put a target on Wengers back. Its been the same since from the start of the season, the managers simply has to win games its pretty simple to shove down their throats.

    But am I completely alone at being excited at the prospect of having Jack, Sagna, Gibbs, Arteta and Gervinho back in two weeks.

  471. George, the Fans’ forum doesn’t seem available on podcast and I can’t watch live on Monday afternoons, here.

    What was it like and did you get on?

  472. Bill

    I think the internet blog has a lot to do with it man (yeah Yogi!) Its far too easy to spout vitriol and bile because the consequences are non-existent. If you did it in the street, pub, stadium you’d get a mouth ful or a slap! Those horrible radio phone ins are also part of it too and the media follow suit.

    Just look at the nature of commentary and punditry now; its all about finding a negative perspective, having a pop and these are fuckers who have never done any research and rely on out of date shit or lazy cliches. Thats why when Wenger was goin on about Pires being slated for months/years even for ONE dive vs Pompey, yet the twat from Swansea’s a hero is so spot the fuck on.

    Its all bollocks and takes loads away from the enjoyment, yes enjoyment that should accompany being a football ‘fan’

    Good night

  473. Bradys right foot

    Chin up Dex long way to go and alot left to fight for.

  474. BRF, I’ll be very glad Arteta comes back in, but hopefully we won’t be waiting two weeks. I don’t want to count chickens with all the others. I think we are missing Santos terribly but he won’t be back until at least March. He was superb in the 8 games he played for us.

  475. Why exactly is the Rwandan prime minister having his say about Wenger leaving Arsenal?

  476. yogi:

    Always thought that hurling abuse and bile back and forth just escalates the whole thing.

    George:

    Its my opinion and obviously not shared by most but I honestly believe that the real low life scum are hurt a lot more by totally ignoring them.

  477. He’s a supporter and decided to make a fool of himself, like so many others.

  478. BRF

    Thanks dude, I am fine man, just trying to explain why I think we have football followers who act like they do. TBH, we have a society who act like that; everything on a plate, no I cannot wait, gimme gimme gimme!

  479. mate i can assure you that i do not sympathise with anyone who challeged wengers decision in the way they did..

    all im saying is im getting a vibe from alot of comments since sunday that our fans have alot to answer for and although it wasnt pretty it seemed a very vocal minority..
    fuck them alot of them probably wont be around next season if we dont finish top 4 but our fans in the main have been good this season under the circumstances and we shouldnt forget that..
    the team just hasnt performed and thats down to other circumstances..

    dex have you been in the bin?? haha..

  480. Ungrateful too, which makes it worse.

  481. Those were to Dex about the Rwandan president.

  482. Yeah JJ! Ha! 🙂

  483. Thanks Limey

    Yeah, twitter is another fucking easy way to spout bollocks innit!

  484. dexter:

    Quick access to the internet with no consequences has clearly made it easier and escalated the fan civil war. However the good parts about being able to discuss the club for people like you and I far outweighs the negatives, I think.

  485. Bill

    Not disagreeing with that mate, its a great way to chat about all kinds of dead important stuff, like who would we should sign to replace RvP this summer!!! 🙂

    But its just tooeasy for those of, erm, how to describe em? A remedial, unibrowed sloping foreheaded simpleton to abuse, scream and make themselves heard, when they ought to be safely tucked away in some secure unit somewhere.

  486. Bradys right foot

    Touch wood Limestone but it’ll be a shot in the arm for the squad no doubt. the most disappoonting thing for me this season is not the departure of Nasregas but the absence of our first choice back four. Imagine a world where Sagna Kozzer TV5 and Santos are fit and get helped out by the BFG Corporal J & Gibbs.

    Is Kozzer better then TV5? Thats a good debate for me probably, its a compliment not any slight on our excellant Belgium. Sagna “the best right back in the league” does exactly what its says on the tin and the mecurial cavalier in Santos. Weve been robbed of this combination and I think thats shafted our title ambitions more than anything else. The BFG has been very good imoand doesn’t get the credit he deserves. Honestly I think the defence is sorted it just happens to be injured for the most part.

  487. LG .It was fairly balanced .
    I did not get on .I think they are unhappy with my treatment of John Cross.Him being a guest and me putting him somewhat on the spot.

  488. Kosser is a better defender than TV.Whether he contributes more to the team is questionable.
    But what a pair?

  489. Bradys right foot

    PG did you get a free shot at the cnut Cross, aw m8 is there a link anywhere. PG stepped up and took his shot lol, I must have had some work to do that week was completely in the dark.

  490. Yesterday, I met a consultant heart surgeon. He is very experienced and has an excellent record in his work. Since the health of someone dear to me depends on him, I investigated his record.

    The websites I visited presented an interesting contrast.

    On “La Coeur” there was a succession of critical contributors whose comments generally followed a pattern. “F**kin’ c**t. ‘e shudda whipped out the ‘art, sowed it up, stuffed it back in again. ‘E’s sh*t. Get rid of ‘im.

    On “A Cultured Left Ventricle”, there were some who clearly would have been more at home on “La Coeur”. Others were more articulate, but equally convinced that they knew more about heart surgery than my consultant. The questions they asked were simply a cover for criticism, beginning with some variant of why didn’t he . . . . . ?

    The only contributors worth reading were those who were in awe of the skill of my consultant, understood that their knowledge and experience were not remotely comparable with his, but felt that they could usefully ask questions when they genuinely wanted to draw on his expertise to discover the answers.

  491. It is on the highlights of last weeks show and about 14 minutes into the podcast,on arsenal.com.
    Click on “news”and scroll down to “fans forum”

  492. That’s a shame, George. You are part of the “talent” as a regular contributor!

    BRF, yes, I think missing Sagna and Santos has really hampered us. By now Santos would have at least 3 or 4 goals and some assists plus he is actually a very strong tackler and aerially adept defender. Right now I think Kos is a better defender and if he keeps making amazing runs forward and attacking corners at the late stages of the game when we are chasing he might show that he is a better player overall soon. Not likely perhaps, Vermaelen has a wicked left foot, as we’ve seen. But defensively right now Kos is our best fit defender.

  493. George, I wonder why the latest isn’t up yet on podcast. I’d like to listen to Monday’s call-in and Tom Watts’ comments.

  494. Bill – I feel the other way – times like this circle you circle the wagons, get the men inside and feed the cunts to the wolves. As you probably know, normally I have plenty of time for your thoughts and those of Andy and the like but right now is not the point to be discussing Wenger’s perceived failings but getting on with helping each other through a difficult time so we can all get behind the club. I think that’s really important. It’s a sea of shitty negativity out there and it’s corrosive, damaging and dangerous.

    There are SO many sites which are going to be more receptive to those wishing to discuss if it’s time to move on. 7am kick is the latest of sites to fall closer to that way of thinking. My contention is that now is not the time for giving up on the season and wringing our hands and mewling like wet kittens. There is so much of this season left and so much to look forward to. I’m still enjoying the season.

    The Jabbas, Sugas and Plastic Altars will never change their minds anyway – I’m not going to entertain or be flexible to their bullshit in this climate – their message isn’t worth discussing anyway – it hasn’t changed a fucking iota.

    I do agree it should never be a case of Wenger before the club – I am an Arsenal fan first and foremost but right now I’m MORE than happy to go ‘toe to toe’ with the true merchants of negativity. No, for me, at least until the day YW starts to waver (it’s his site after all) and the tone changes this should remain a site where those who have a stomach for the fight can take good heart to boot. A sanctum if you will.

  495. Nice one, Merlot! lol!

  496. Have you tried Itunes LG?

  497. Bradys right foot

    Is it the one dated the 16th PG.

  498. PG is on the 16th. I’ve tried iTunes and the dot com but it isn’t available. They should leave it on Arsenal Player for a week until the next one.

  499. kozzer is the ultimate defender..
    he puts strikers in his pocket..

  500. Bradys right foot

    Well done George boy, ffs straw poll Cross what a plonker lol.

  501. BRF if you watch on the highlights show you can see him squirming.Cunt he is.

  502. Poodle | January 24, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    ” … but honestly guys. Look at the front line up the next 3 years. with Wilshere, with Ramsey, with Theo with Oxo, with Frimpong. And then Gibbs and Yennaris and Jenkinson …”

    AND

    Bradys right foot | January 24, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    “Poodle weve got Campbell and Ryo to add to the list of young talent to come through.”

    Hmmm, guys, you may have a point or two there, both of you.

    Yes, add in, ooh, I dunno, the likes of Chesny, Vermaelen, Kos, Per, Santos, Bacary, Song.

    Take one World Class Striker (RvP will do).

    Now, if you only had, say, the best – or unarguably one of the best – midfielders of his generation, someone who had played – and won – at the highest levels of World Football (preferably won a World Cup, if poss), taught by the best of the ‘old’ guard, coached by THE best and an Arsenal man, through and through; one who could the provide the glue, the drive and the inspiration for that whole squad just listed above. Well, only the limits of your imagination could possibly limit the prospects that might exist for this most talented group of players – one that is about to run riot in this league, and more than capable of challenging sides from any other league.

    Silly Arsene for letting Cesc Fabregas go – he could have been THAT guy. The player that brought it all together in a world beating, possibly Invincibles-matching side that would have been the envy of supporters everywhere. Someone here asked recently – was AW even bothered by Cesc leaving?

    I can’t prove this but I suspect LITERALLY the last thing AW wanted was for Cesc to leave. Good luck to Fabregas, he’s playing a big part in Barca’s season and for his sake, long may that continue. He can even get home – his actual home – in time for tea, I’ve no doubt.

    But had he stayed he might have become the biggest legend the club has ever known – a legend amongst legends, maybe. Yes, the apple of Wenger’s eye but the centre of Arsenal’s universe also.

    I honestly never thought Fabregas would go and I was left reeling when he did. Can’t imagine how AW was feeling. So close to seeing so much come together. A squad with the talent and the playing style more than capable of defeating the odds currently so grotesquely twisted by the petro-dollars funding the Mancs and the Chavs.

    Yes, easy to feel hard done by here but again, I’m imagining.

    What was more sickening for Arsene Wenger? Seeing Cesc leave?

    Or witnessing the rise of the disgruntled ex-fans, booing from their luxury padded seats in the Emirates, defecting to the legions of the anti-Arsenal media and wearing the bile riddled coats normally worn by the fans of our greatest competitors?

    And hearing them say HE doesn’t know what HE’S doing?!

    Oh the irony.

    Yes, losing Fabregas was a set back but luckily we have the one manager in the world capable of over-coming that loss and developing – or finding – a successor to Cesc (although, scandalously, it may not happen by the end of the current transfer window).

    But do we even deserve that manager?

    Let alone the rest of the squad he has already assembled, and the ones in the pipeline.

    There are two versions of the future that lie ahead – the one with AW and the one without.

    I know which one I’ll be fighting for.

    Though I’ll always support the club, regardless.

    Always have done and always will.

    I just hope I don’t end my days wondering.

    What if …?

  503. Bradys right foot

    No George ill pass lol its bad enough listening to thay mug never mind seeing him.

  504. “steww | January 24, 2012 at 4:48 pm
    I am the only one here who thought it was a cracking match? Best encounter with them for a long while. Excitement, nail biting finish and could have gone either way.
    Honestly if all that matters to you is the score don’t watch the match just check the results later.”

    I did as well. We were in the game until the last few minutes. It really could have gone either way. I was disappointed we lost, but not devastated like we had our arses handed to us!

  505. Paul-N – cheers, mate.

  506. The bewitching hour is upon us.Where is my coach and horses?
    Nite peeps

  507. It certainly wasn’t a ‘cracking match’. Decent second half. First half was pretty fucking dire.

    Let’s be honest!

  508. “It’s always a hard game with Arsenal, but it should be a good game.

    “They’ve recovered well [after we beat them 8-2]. They’ve qualified for the next stage of the Champions League so there’s not a lot wrong there.

    “They’ve had to contend with injuries to defenders, especially the two full-backs, Sagna and Gibbs, who have both been out for quite a while. It’s not easy to be without your two regular full-backs. They’ve equipped themselves well.”

    Alex Ferguson, 20th January 2011.

    On another note …

    Looks like Real Madrid may be in the market for a really top class manager.

    I wonder who is available for them?

    Nite all.

  509. arsenalandrew,

    A little late in the day but just reading the comments.

    What a truly amazing post earlier about home ‘support’, 100% spot on. Gave me goosebumps. Well done fella.

  510. Mean Lean – cheers mate – it IS late though, isn’t it?!

    Tomorrow’s another day …

  511. Was Arshavin to blame? Why was a small winger left on his own to deal with the incoming Valencia? Do the players think he’s Sol Campbell? Or in fact should we, as it is a team game, be wondering why our left back Vermaelen was in the box waiting for Godot. It is a team game, and our left backs were often not supported properly by our wingers or vice versa. When Djourou was being skinned, where was our right winger? We cannot expect to beat quality opposition if we do not employ teamwork in defense.

  512. It certainly is late in the day.. well early in the morning would be more accurate.

    Would you mind if I included that in a blog post tomorrow? Fits the writers article perfectly. Let me know and credit will be given your way.

  513. Conférencier!

    Thank you much, to God be the Glory!

  514. To those who think they were ‘lied’ to about the Emirates.

    Lets make this clear. The Emirates stadium helps us compete with the most profitable clubs in the EPL. It was never envisaged that the revenue generated by it would ever mean that we would be able to compete with the least profitable clubs…………

    You know……The ones that owe their Sugardaddy owners like the Chavs and Man-sour hundreds of millions. If you think you can compete with that in any form of business you are a twat.

    Either of those clubs sold on the open market are like their players – ongoing over paid losses that can be paid for by only a very few. Just the months wage bills are ‘unfuckingsustainable’ except for people who like flushing their money down the toilet because they have a small penis complex and/or have nothing better to do with it.

    The Emirates is sound business. Just stop pretending you know anything about that.

  515. Mean Lean (1.06) – yes of course, feel free; would be interested to read whole article – could you put a link on here to it if YW okay with that?

    Apologies for late reply btw – did actually turn in after my last post!

    Cheers.

  516. The amount of self examination Arsenal fans are doing right now isn’t helpful. We would be better off assessing performances at the end of the season.

  517. why can’t we play proper fullbacks even if they are 4th or 5th choice..at-least the team will have some balance

  518. Jonny – Ox for England – and at such an early age!

    “What could possibly go wrong …?”

    Asked Theo, knowingly.

  519. I don’t think people feel lied to so much about emirates move and a glorious promise beyond highbury vis a viz betrayed by wrong tactful changes during games and a season’s approach in general. This is the source of their simmering discontent at present that accrues in quick and wide collections.
    AW is arguably the most transformative manager given the change of arsenal to present but it is impervious to disguise his tactical mishaps during pivotal moments in a game and ahead crucial matches.
    To this extent is why likes of mourinho, pep, fergie at times, and small to mid table teams fired up to kick arsenal players in the uk.

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