Champions League Ambitions Are Quelled By United Win

Arsenal 1 – 2 Manchester United

0 – 1 Valencia (45)
1 – 1 van Persie (70)
1 – 2 Welbeck (81)

It is a sign of the times at Arsenal; a chorus of boos in the stadium over substitutions mirroring the contempt online. A small but vocal minority. The criticism over the withdrawal of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain was vindicated to some extent – it is indefensible to boo a player before they have come on – with Arsène admitting in his post-match press conference that he got this one wrong. That he got the withdrawal of Johan Djourou correct thirty minutes earlier is overlooked.

In the end, the defeat was down to more than one substitution. As per usual, Arsenal spurned chances and were emminently culpable in both goals. Ferguson reacted to the defensive wanderings of Rafael during van Persie’s equaliser and Arshavin’s introduction, to load the right side of the United attack with attacking midfielders, exploiting the defensive weaknesses already exposed. Valencia would do so once more, his foraging run down the right produced a pass to Welbeck to slot home, nine minutes from the end.

The match had started slugglishly, neither side sparked into life immediately from kick-off. The much begged start for Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain arrived and the youngster did not disappoint. Like the second half substitute Yennaris, his performance hinted at a readiness for first team football. Oxlade-Chamberlain is further down the preparatory road than his defensive counterpart and his route to the starting line-up less congested.

The parrys and thrusts of the opening exchanges brought no clear chances until Giggs drew a sharp save from Szczesny. When Jones was removed from the action with a knee injury, you sensed that the battle might swing in Arsenal’s favour; surely with three first choice centre backs missing from their opponents, the hosts could impose themselves on the game?

Such dominance never arrived, at least not in the first half. Oxlade-Chamberlain’s raids on the right gave Evra pause for thought, two former Southampton players combining when Walcott fired high and wide of the goal. When it seemed Arsenal would take control United pounced on the counter-attack, only to be denied by excellent covering work by Koscielny. The Frenchman might have been favourite to make way for Mertesacker when he signed but surely the question is now who partners him in the centre?

Nani tested Szczesny as the half drew to a close, the interval bringing to an end the wretched torment inflicted on Djourou by the Portuguese winger. It was a match where the central defender was shown how difficult full backs sometimes find their ninety minutes.

It is not entirely the Swiss internationals fault. Arsenal’s forwards are notoriously poor at tracking back on the left, the right hand side yesterday was little better. Oxlade-Chamberlain might have curbed Evra’s attacking instincts but he was noticeably absent on a few occasions when his defensive backing might have been productive.

The opening goal came as the referee pursed his lips to blow for the interval. Vermaelen’s clearance fell to Giggs whose cross was unerringly accurate for Valencia as he drifted in unmarked. His header guided away from Szczesny’s reach and into the net. It was a goal of collective culpability from Arsenal’s point of view; Vermaelen might have done better with clearance initially whilst someone might have been advised to mark Valencia.

After the changes at the interval, Arsenal came out sparkier than the trudge to the tunnel fifteen minutes previously. Immediately the opportunity for an equaliser arrived. Rosicky led a counter-attack which ended with van Persie firing wide the type of chance so normally converted with aplomb. Ramsey shot high, Evra appeared to use a hand to stop Rosicky. The chances for Arsenal were coming more rapidly as this half progressed.

Koscielny burst forward and with composure played Oxlade-Chamberlain into space, the youngsters effort skewed wide of the post.

And when Arsenal were complacent, United almost punished them; Mertesacker recovering in time to clear off the line after Welbeck had sprinted clear of him to beat Szczesny to the ball.

Once more Arsenal regrouped and forged into attack, this time with venom. Oxlade-Chamberlain rampaged on the right and found van Persie, whose snap effort was early enough to evade the dive of Lindegaard in the United goal. A deserved equaliser, setting the scene for a late win as in 2007.

Indeed that happened but this time the roles reversed with Welbeck’s late goal. Evans cleared off the line as the final whistle beckoned but the wind had been taken from Arsenal sails by Welbeck.

Post-match, Wenger took responsibility for the defeat and exonerated his captain for his apparent dissent over the substitution. The crowd are entitled to their view and Wenger did not seek to hide from that. Opinions are accepted as being part of football, publicly at least. I do not understand heckling Arshavin; he has not been in good form previously but there were signs that he might be coming back to such. Encouragement would be the way to produce this; support not derision. No-one will convince me that the reaction to him yesterday was anything but counter-productive.

Defeat means more hard work lies ahead. We keep telling ourselves that Tottenham and Chelsea have difficult matches ahead, that they will drop points. The problem is that Arsenal need to pick them up and take advantage, something that has failed to happen thus far. Consecutive defeats in the last three games are unsettling, of that there is no argument. Each further defeat is detrimental to Champions League qualification.

Yet the season is not over, there are returning players to come back, players who can make a difference. Would the signing of new players prior to yesterday have affected the outcome? You simply cannot prove the answer either way, attempting to do so merely delusions of an unknown truth.

The danger is that the defeats collectively are damaging to long term confidence. Tin helmets may be required for those who have not lost hope for the barrage of last week is set to crescendo this.

On a more pleasant note, don’t forget to check this morning’s Arsenal On This Day. It’s a winner…’til Tomorrow.

Posted on January 23, 2012, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 545 Comments.

  1. Booing Arshavin was just not it. That’s the lowest of the low. Thanks for the post Yogi.

  2. Worst supporters in the EPL, by a country mile.

  3. LoveTheWayYouPlay

    It was so sad to see Wenger being booed by his own fans. I just wanted to give the man a hug. He has done so much he doesnt have to and taken so much shit that he doesnt have to.

  4. People like to be part of a pack, we have seen it before.

    If the pack is led by a few wolves who can make enough noise by continually telling us that AA is ‘shit’ and that ‘Wenger has lost it’ then they will find many all too willing to follow them.

    They are a disgrace but a symptom of our society. Me, me, me. Now.

    I’m off to clean out the chickens.

  5. agree with u on that point, the crowd had lost the plot (me included as the substitution left me for a moment in disbelieve!). However booing the decision with its ramifications on the player that has just come on isnt going to do anything for his confidence especially when it is already low.

    I think the first half performance was poor and at points arsenal played as it they where the away team. However an organised and more spirited second half reminded me of arsenal of old. Looks like ramseys being asked to play a more advanced role but even then in my opinion, the midfield doesnt support RVP enough.
    I think ramseys going to be a fine player one day, but that will come some day,….right now he should be learning his trade and starting from the bench because rosiscky offers a lot more in that arsenal midfield.

    arsenal midfield:

    arteta (when fit) song rosicky

  6. YW – Nice post. A couple of points:

    * For me the 1st goal it was Djourou who was largley at fault. He stood and watched the 2 against 1 develop on our right hand side, and then made no effort at all to stop Giggs getting a cross in. It was lazy defending.

    * Bang on about Wenger’s half time substitution. He rarely makes changes that early, but htis one worked a treat. Nani was noticably quieter in the 2nd half.

    * I actuallty though AOC did well defensively and put in a good shift. Djourou was exposed often, but that was down to the sepeed that Manure got the ball to Nani and the fact that he never tracked back thus leaving him an out ball at all times. Nothing either of our wide men could do about that.

    * I am not sure the crowd were booing AA. I thought they were simply booing he decision to take off AOC. Obviously not nice for whoever is coming on, but still.

  7. Don’t go away Frank. We are going to need a bit of steel here for the coming weeks.

  8. We need not forget that central to our recent travails is the number of key players out due to injuries, others playing out of position for the same reason, Gervinho at the cup of nations and further complicated by Theo’s apparent loss of form lately. Etc etc.
    But we are not the only team with injured players though I must say that Arsenal do seem to have more than the fair share of injuries .My point is , is it time to take a closer look and appraise the medical/ rehab dept? Why do our players take so long to recover from injuries ? Why do they suffer such frequent setbacks on the road to recovery?Are the right decisions being made and are they made in a timely fashion in order to optimise treatment and recovery. I don’t know the answers but these are the questions swirling in my head as another season is potentially being scuttled by injuries.

  9. the fans killed the momentum not the substitution. our players played with fear minus konscielny ox and to a lesser extent rosicky. djourou , minus the fact he allowed giggs the time to cross was not so bad as people make him out to be. for a tall centreback he has quick feet and can beat opponents and play one two ( provided ramsey and song wake up and play it one touch).

  10. From where I was sat (no I didn’t boo), the boo’s where at AW for keeping Walcott on, not directed at the ineffective Russian, whose cameo, pretty much summed up his last 14 months.

    There has been a long debate about the tactical performances of Wenger over the last few months, and to be quite frank, he was dealt with ease by Fergie.

    Wenger will seek praise for taking Djourou off after 45 minutes, well, it was clear after the first 5 minutes that United had targeted and frequently exposed his lack of mobility as a RB, to great affect too. Why did we wait 45 minutes to correct what was such a glaring mismatch?

    Even switching the excellent Kos to the RB position for the remainder of the first half would have been more proactive than hoping the weakness doesnt get exposed, which it did.

    I didnt read one post yesterday, I cant be bothered to deal with the excuses.

  11. LoveTheWayYouPlay

    I just have one question to the online cunts who flood this blog after a defeat. You know that this is a blog where supporters support their club through thick and thin, where supporters are “Cheerful in victory and optimistic in defeat”, where supporters respect Wenger, are proud of what Arsenal represent. So you know the kind of posts and articles that will be here. Why then when you have LeGrove and other putrid blogs and the full agreement with the media like DailyMail, Guardian, BBC, etc, do you come and comment here. You know that you are not wanted here, you know the type of people here, you have numerous outlets for your drivel, but you still come here, post shit retard comments, get abused and continue your stupid statements without shame. Why?

  12. Good well balanced review Yogi as usual, I was at the match yesterday and would say the boos for Ashavin were more for the substitution than the tubby russian.
    I am one of Arsene’s greatest fans but that change was one of the worst decisions i have ever seen, and i have been watching Arsenal for fifty years.
    Bill’s post summed up the match well last night, we were very poor first half but got much better in the second, wasted chances cost us and on balance United just about deserved the win.
    What is worrying is that our next three league games are against lower teams who are on a resurgent run, a testing time indeed.

  13. On the plus side, thats one of the best goals we have scored in a while.

    Utterly devastating counter attack.

  14. Luke – “I didnt read one post yesterday, I cant be bothered to deal with the excuses.

    It wasn’t too bad to be honest mate. There was no refeereing decisions to hold up as a reason for our loss more than likely.

  15. Is it me or is Walcott as ineffective as Arshavin both going forward and tracking back? Can’t see why Theo doesn’t get the same treatment as the Russian sulker??

  16. Still trying to figure out why Arshavin is blamed for the goal when Song and Vermaelen didn’t do any better?

  17. We really moved the ball too slowly last yesterday, especially in the final 3rd. The one time in the match we played with some urgency we cut them apart and scored a great goal. Rather than concentrate on the negatives the coaching staff need to show hte squad hat goal on repeat. We have good footballers, do this more often. Unfortunately with Ramsey at the point of our midfield this is a problem. He will be a good midfielder, of that I have no duobt, but he likes lost of touches and slows things down quite a bit.

  18. Im sure booing helps a guy already low on confidence eh..im sure thats why our “fans” at the stadium did it…un-fucking-believable

  19. You can see that Ramsey is knackered. He needs a rest.

    Cheers for the update GA, after a few beers in the Barn, I headed home for dinner and a DVD with the mrs. Didnt have the spirit to have some chat on here.

  20. All these guyz sain that it was not justified to boo Arsene are just blinded by the past……. Answer this….. why do you try to work hard day by day in your jobs..? tell me if you were to under perform for 6yrs would you still be in that office you are currently….?

  21. Amirundh,

    Boo’s were not at Shavin, at Wenger for taking off Oxo instead of Walcott (who had one of his worst performances in an Arsenal shirt last night)

  22. people were not booing AA23, they were booing the decision to take our best attacking player on the day off for someone that hasnt had it for quite some time.

    CA,

    These players are supposed to play in hard circumstances, if you cannot play beyond boos or criticism, then go play for a smaller club. AA23 has been extremely way below par, people expected that he would weaken us rather than strengthen us, and he did.
    CR7 was being booed by madrid fans for never appearing when they play Barca, he scored against them……….AA23 is older, more experienced, should have a tougher skin.

    Arsenal fans have lost the plot??????? nonsense. we see some overpaid players underachieve every season, a manager that puts way too much trust in them and is unwilling to change a philosophy that not only pisses away huge wages each season, but one that limits players that we can bring in. we have a huge wage bill, an expensive ticket (the most expensive in club football) and all you look to is the managers past?

    Wenger earns more than Fergie does, yet, we have more dross on our team than they do in theirs. they can get rid of almost any player they so choose because they (players) are rewarded for performance and not future potential, because players know that if they dont deliver they are off the team. How many games before we say we have had enough of Diaby? How many more seasons wasted due to injury on two underdelivering players in Diaby and Gibbs before we bring in players that can compete for these two positions?
    How much time do we dedicate to the russian captain, and how much more weekly wages on a player unable to not only deliver, but unwilling to work hard for the team?

    This team is littered with those examples and yet to you wenger is god? unquestionable, untouchable even in areas where he royally messes up? i love him as a manager, but we are where we are because he has broken wage system, immense trust on underachieving players, and yesterday, a substitution that was wrong on so many levels.

    Richie,

    even in Kenya, united fans cannot believe that he made that change, i have been to a good number of sites and there is not a single united fan that doesnt think that his decision to deck AOC gave them the impetus. Moyes has the support because he does a great job on a non existent transfer fund. at arsenal, the broken wage system that has us losing tens of millions every year is a hindrance. we are where we are more and more because of the way AW has run things over the past 8 years that has seen us lose our best talents while gambling on young players. Some have worked out, but we have a huge number of players that have not.

  23. @Graham

    Because adjectives like sulking, lazy, fat etc are thrown about and repeated till they actually become accepted as fact..

  24. Clay – Because of the way he fronted up to Valencia. It really wasn’t very good by anybodies standards. But you are right, there were other players involved; its just that that one stood out.

  25. @Luke

    Do you really think, that at the moment a player comes on into a game of that magnitude, it matters one jot to the player what the reasons for the booing are??

    All the player will feel is even more unnecessary pressure heaped on him…

  26. ……….and that he lost possession needlessly (again) just before.

  27. I’m not supporting it Amirundh, just telling you how it was, before you go on a crusade attacking fans for yesterdays piss poor performance.

  28. Acryllic Affair

    Well, that makes the booing all perfectly acceptable. Arshavin probably looked at AW and went, “That’s for you, Muppet, not me“….

    Nope, the dipshits who booed the substitution had ample time to correct it after AOCs name was called publicly and met with applause. And then the booing restarted. So none of the booing was aimed at AA23…

  29. Graham – I agree. Theo was equally ineffective yesterday. That moment where he cut in from the left, driffted past a few players, and then cocked up a pretty easy pass to AOC who would have been through on goal, sums Theo up for me. Plenty of promise, but fails to deliver far too often. I like Theo, he seems a nice guy, and is capable of some decent stuff. But he is not consistantly good enough to start on a regular basis for a club of our stature.

  30. Graham Yates just checked the stats on the EPl site Ramsey 2 goals 5 assits, Arshavin 2 goals 3 assists, Walcott 4 goals 7 Assits, Gervinho 4 goals 6 assists…from that it looks like Theo is the most effective

  31. Aaron

    When you get to work, let us know. We’ll all pop round and give you a load of grief and boo your every keyboard stroke. Let’s see how good you are.

    Booing during a match is intensely counter-productive. You register your dissent but people never switch immediately to backing the team. With 15 minutes left, that is what you need; that is what didn’t happen.

  32. Fans should never boo their own team/players. It is counterproductive.

  33. And why havent we seen more of Ryo maiyaichi………..????

  34. @Luke

    I am not finding excuses or blaming fans for yesterdays defeat, i posted yesterday saying that it was the sub which cost us the game and there was no two ways about that.The booing was unacceptable IMO and thats it..

  35. The moments I found interesting was when Walcott blasted the Ox for not making the right pass. Moments later the Ox got the ball and made the right pass to Walcott. Walcott fluffed the chance. The Ox didn’t even look at Walcott but run back to position.

  36. amirundh, of course boo’ing is pathetic, indefensible and inexcusable – people who boo’d did get some stick near me. the thing i hate the most about the emirates, is that 60% of the fans dont make a noise, but when there is a missed place pass, everyone groans. that really winds me up.

  37. The worrying thing for me is that we have seemed to have lost the ability to draw games, even the 03/04 side drew 10 or 12 games if I remember right, we really should be at least drawing and not losing games like yesterday

    6 games – Blackburn, Spurs, City, Fulham, Swansea, United – we have lost by 1 goal margins, 5 draws from those games and we are level on 4th with Chelsea

  38. Clay – But to be fair, most of that was weeks ago. He has been really poor for a number of weeks now.

  39. Walcott doesnt get as much stick as arshavin because tw14 is a consant threat with his pace.and he is still young so can be better.aa23 offers nothing atm.except to make up the numbers.and he is 30 yrs, experienced.he’s got no wriggling room.
    Still feeling bad about the boos.sad really.

  40. A lot of strange people at the game yesterday. Unfamiliar faces or at least faces I had not seen for a while. My theory is that the gaps in the crowd from week to week and the booing yesterday are linked.

    Over the last three or four seasons there has been a growing number of season ticket holders who for one reason or another either don’t use their tickets or hand/sell their tickets to others, except for big games. They come back for big games. Some of these people do this for purely economic reasons, and some because they have so much money they don’t really care whether the ticket gets used or not.

    There is ,of course, a greater tendency for the disenchanted to take this approach than for the die hards. This in itself sets up an interesting evolutionary process. For most games the ‘sellers’ are not there, their seats are either empty or occupied by someone who really wants to get to a game and support the team. As the number of disenchanted ‘sellers’ increases then we gain better and better support because the proportion of disenchanted people at each game decreases.

    The expected results from this phenomenon would be an improvement in matchday support, which is of course what we have seen…..except for big games when the booing fucking cunts all return for their pound of flesh.

    Next time you sit next to a booer. Know him for what he is. He is one of the arseholes dragging your club down.

  41. I nipped out for a jimmy during the second half as my wooden bladder can’t usually last out for a whole half in the stands nowadays. I returned to hear the fans chanting “you don’t know what you’re doing”, which I had assumed was directed at the ref for some dodgy decision or other. When I finally reached my seat I realised it was directed at AW for the substitution of AOC and it didn’t seem like a minority in the crowd to me.

    An quote from Arseblog which I thought was interesting:

    “So while I feel for the manager in that regard the way last summer was handled, along with results so far this season, brought about yesterday’s reaction. I maintain the only thing you should ever judge a manager on is results. If he signs players you don’t like or don’t rate, or makes changes you can’t understand, but the team rack up the points, you’ve got absolutely no cause for complaint. This season, however, results mean that Arsene is open to criticism like never before.”

  42. Luke

    Exactly my point…since I have not been to a game, and you have, if those numbers are true, then its just woeful..the people who express opinions and criticism should look at themselves first as fans…

    For me, that is exactly the reason why we do not get as many pens as the other teams in the top 4 when we play at home, cos its not such a big advantage when we play at home..

  43. These players are supposed to play in hard circumstances, if you cannot play beyond boos or criticism, then go play for a smaller club.

    lol..hahah altair …come on mate…youre telling me youd be able to play in a positive manner while having ungreatful cretins booing at you ?

  44. Is it just me or were a lot of the boo’s reserved for the time wasting Manure player that was allowed to stay on. I was convinced that the fans were calling you don’t know what you are doing to the ref rather than Arsene. I might be wrong but that is how I saw it, although I am sure some were booing the decision. If Arsene is right and Ox was stretching out his calf then he was totally correct to take him off, if he had continued and gotten injured what then?

  45. YW, enough with the excuses.

    You will not see Fergie taking of Nani or Rooney in a game they are looking to win, Barca will never get rid of Messi, Xavi or Iniesta when they are looking to take all three points, but we brought of AOC for a defensive liability, and a player that hasnt been that great going forward for quite some time. i love Wenger, but i refuse to let that cloud my judgment.

    I know of united fans that are still surprised, Arsenal fans that would like to think that it never happened. We had results go away this weekend, all of them, what are the chances that that happens again? And yet again we have failed to capitalize.

    Booing as counterproductive as it is shows the human side of how frustrating it has been being a fan these past 6 years, the fact that we can constantly give players that are and have been past it the nod over players that take their chance and grab it with both hands cannot, and should not be acceptable.

    My friends were all cursing, a friend that supports spurs said that even Harry is incapable of making that change (and that hurts). to think that people that go to the stadium are/should not show emotion is madness. we celebrate when the team does well, we understand when they do their best and come up short, but when you see under-delivering players come in game after game after game after game and yield the same results, you have a right to question. you have a right to show disdain in the stadium just as those at home do.

  46. The empty seats at club level if we dont bag 4th and lose RVP (not being a doomer, just a serious concern), will be more damaging than ST holders who pay for the seat, but dont turn up.

  47. Arsenal fans have lost the plot??????? nonsense.

    no its not nonsense at all..arsenal fans have forgotten what their club used to be and what it is now thanks to wenger. a real gunner has nothing but respect and admiration for arsene wenger and trusts him and allows him the time to make it right. if those wankers who boo had an ounce of dignity they would collapse and cry everytime they stepped into the emirates, instead of taking it all for granted.

  48. By the way, Oxo did signal to PR that he had a problem just before he was substituted. Those who want to see a lot more of him this season ought to be thankful for that decision. After the Francis Coquelin incident it is not difficult to understand why the coaching staff are sensitive to muscle strains in youngsters.

    Great performance second half. We have come such a long way since the mauling in August. The Big Mancs will probably win the EPL this year and you could hardly get a ten bob note between the teams yesterday. And we with no regular full backs and all. Well done squad, every man jack of you. Onwards and upwards.

    Arsenal

  49. Frank – I agree.

  50. Frank

    Funny..yesterday the guy sitting at the table next to mine was saying almost the exact same thing..

  51. That’s just Arseblogger covering his arse before he joins the gadarene swine in their assualts on Arsene and the unfavoured players.

    It’s a battle out there. The side in a battle that usually loses is the one where support at home is hostile or lukewarm. The troops don’t like it you see.

  52. Luke & Anirudh I think the fact that we make more noise in a Carling cup game against Bolton proves that the vocal support just cannot get into these big matches. Instead we get whinging idiots who would boo a player that blatantly needs our support and love to recreate his best form, when we were showing him the love he was amazing.

    I am still of the notion that EVERY player should have their own song and they should all be sung throughout the game like we used to at Highbury rather than just the crowd favourites!

  53. ‘I have a right to boo’.

    Jesus H Christ. How old are some of you?

  54. Well said, Drew10

  55. Was watching the barca-malaga game yesterday as it was on immediately after our game..

    The Messi chap isnt half bad eh..we should sign him 😀

  56. http://twitpic.com/8aoxpy

    Yennaris as a mascot in 2000!

    Thought the kid did very well yesterday.

  57. Drew 10

    Right on the money, nail on the head and all that 😀

    What I cannot fathom is how some “fans” can actually think that Arshavin is happy to be playing like crap or that Diaby is happy being injured??? Un-fucking-believable again!!

  58. Cbob

    I think you ought to exclude the ladies from that age question. A gentleman never asks.

  59. Let me just clarify; I am 100% an Arsene Wenger supporter, and as things stand I do not think that we should have a change of manager.

    What I find a little strange though, is how some people will not/can not question him at all. As much as I am a fan of Arsene Wenger, I am a supporter of Arsenal Football club. That is where my loyalties lie. How far to things have to decline before it is “acceptbale” to question his place as manager? If the answer is never, I would suggest that you are a Wenger fan and not an Arsenal fan.

  60. Luke

    Agree with your views on club level, whilst it was successful in helping to put in place funding for the stadium initially, it is likely to come back to haunt us. So many corporate monkeys just turn up to swill down their free booze at the mid week CL games, whilst the seats are empty for the weekend games.

  61. The thing I learned yesterday is that Bob will never be questioned by me again.

    But I cant be arsed with some people anymore.I would not speak to them in the pub,so why should I on here.?

    Anyone who boo’s the manager is a cretin,end of.Nothing , absolutely nothing good can ever come from negativity.

  62. So, Wenger claimed that AOC was ill earlier in the week and as a result was showing signs of fatigue and that his calf was becoming vulnerable to injury . So, how do the brilliant managers around here explain these words? He can only be a shameless liar if he didn’t substitute AOC for those reasons.

    Also, oh wise and brilliant managers just remember we finished the game with our 4th choice right and left backs. The latter also happens to be our 1st choice central defender.

    I accept that these results are sickening for us gooners but I cannot see how any of you brilliant and insightful managers could have anticipated the loss of so many excellent 1st and 2nd choice players. I wish there was an explanation for the number of injuries we have. I’ve heard the wise ones around here and elsewhere question the facilities and staff etc., and under a barrage of negativity I too have been guilty of moments of irrational thought. But “at the end of the day” I think it’s just bad luck…..Here’s an irrefragable argument for some of you geniuses. With just one fit specialist right or left back I am convinced we would not have lost any of the last three games….

  63. Aaron @ 10.23 a we haven’t seen Miyaichi because he’s nowhere near day for 1st team. I saw him first had ate reserve game at the start of the season against a strong Blackburn side and frankly he was just bullied out of the game and not in an only physical way, just he came up against a man at right back and the Blackburn guy didn’t give an inch. From what I’ve seen he won’t be ready this season at all and I doubt for very much of next.
    Regarding the booing, it was interesting that it seemed to start instantly AOC’s number came up. There was no plan or time for the negative element to generate il feeling. It was entirely spontaneous and a reflection of the fact that, with relatively little time to go out best performer on the day rather than the ineffectual Walcott was taken off. Certainly the crown around me has begun to see that he’s really a lot of piss and wind. It’s al very well staying on the pitch at the end and clapping the crowd every week along with the constant stream of positive PR he puts out but his performances just don’t merit staying on and ultimately that’s what we pay him for. It was clear yesterday that despite being in the first team for 5 years, he is already clearly inferior to Chamberlain. The booing was not for Arshavin but to express anger at making such a poor substitution. Unfortunately the dynamics of a crown can only ever make for fairly inarticulate expression and it may well have been construed as destructive but lets not go along the path of pretending that it undermined the performance. The manager did that, not us.
    And I’ve been an apologist for years for the man. Just feels like lots of straws breaking camels backs……

  64. I am still of the notion that EVERY player should have their own song and they should all be sung throughout the game like we used to at Highbury rather than just the crowd favourites!

    well said

  65. CA,

    i love Wenger, i like what he has done for us, but i am not under the illusion that we are in a great position, or that all is well. we have won nothing for the past 6 seasons, with the grave possibility of it being 7. we have the highest ticket price, and wages not backed up by performances………too much baggage and you somewhat think that people have lost the plot?????

    AW has been great, i am still pro Wenger, but i also knew that this season was defining. IMHO, if he does nothing come the end of the season, and things dont change in the next year, whether you, me and a handful of others like him will not matter. Arsenal is a brand, and it is bigger than any one piece at the club, for all his achievements, and all the challenges AW faces, a lot are down to him. the sooner he starts to change some of his mistakes, the more trust he will get, trust my friend is a two way street, it is given, it is earned.

    History under the great man has been fantastic, but the present is not what i ha envisioned, and the future is rather patchy………….this isn’t where i want arsenal to be, and it isnt what a lot of fans want.

    if you think that fans were/are always going to give the pass to the manager because of what he had achieved, maybe you are the one that has lost the plot, maybe you need to get rid of the AW tainted glasses you have.

  66. You are right Yogi. However, we seem short ofour quota of balanced and sensible female posters of late. They are much missed.

    Andy? Old debate my friend.

    You can question Arsene all you want, fair enough.

    You don’t boo your manager, ever.

    You don’t boo your club, ever.

    You don’t boo your players, ever.

  67. I think we will get into 4th ahead of Chelsea. They are not playing any better than us with their full team. We should romp ahead once we have a few players back. The home match against them would be vital though.

    One thing we should definitely stop though is pumping the ball upfield from goal kicks. We aren’t best equipped to win the ball in the air from them with our current choice of upfield players, it invites pressure.

  68. Oh, and another thing. How can poor ol’ Diaby constantly get the blame for what’s happeing right now? The lad is desperately trying to save his career….What is it with you morons?

  69. Club level alone generates more revenue that Highbury did on match days. amazing.

  70. Bob – Yup, that echo’s my thoughts as well.

  71. Georgaki

    How long have we know about the full back issue?

    How long into the transfer window are we?

    How long has Gibbs been having injury ravaged seasons?

    Dont patronise people who have the “audacity” to suggest we could have been better prepared for this

  72. And as it goes, Arsene has earnt lots of “points in the bank” when it comes to trust. The guy is a genius, but that does not make him infallible.

  73. ‘.this isn’t where i want arsenal to be, and it isnt what a lot of fans want.’ Too bad.

    Thick and thin. Thick and thin.

    I didn’t want to particularly want to watch a side with Steve Morrow in it. But he was on the team sheet and wore the Red and White. So I supported him and the team.

    Many years, titles and cups later I still am. I had no idea where the club was going, I just followed the team. Not been such a bad ride.

  74. Thanks for the post Yogi.

    Plenty of twists in this season yet, plenty more to come from our lads.

    Have to feel a win is now crucial but with returning troops we should be a different proposition.

    An improvement in our finishing would help quell some nerves!

    Still the FA Cup game will be a welcome distraction and maybe allow one or two tired brains and bones some respite.

    Thought today’s beautiful groan was pretty fair-handed too.
    http://www.thebeautifulgroan.com/2012/01/23/arsenal-1-2-man-utd-it-wasnt-all-about-the-substitution/

  75. Whilst i would agree booing is not productive i feel we all have to accept we are in a changing world, football has changed, the game now is not for the working class but for the corporate wealthy set.
    I am one of the lucky fans who can still afford a season ticket but have noticed the change in the last twenty years.
    There is the line of thought that says players must accept this change as well, we have to remember that EPL players will probably be multi millionaires by the time their career ends something which must come with a negative side as well.
    In Italy players accept it as they have grown up hearing boos and whistles ringing in their ears if the crowd feels their team have not performed in the way they would have liked.
    Don’t get me wrong i am not saying this is right but accept the general public are not spending £5 to stand behind the goal anymore like i used to do but are paying serious money to be entertained.
    Any supporter who boos would say if i am paying this money i am entitled to shout what i like whatever the outcome.
    I don’t want to hear it but it is the changing world i am afraid.

  76. Cbob

    Summed it up nicely!!!

  77. goonerandy

    it may do at the moment, but a lot of the Club Level deals are running out and I’m not sure the seats will be filled in the future.

  78. Georgaki | January 23, 2012 at 11:06 am

    How many seasons have Diaby, Rosicky and Gibbs been healthy? these things dont come as a surprise, they are expected and that we plan not around them is shocking.

    United have Vidic, Ferdinand, Cleverly, Phil Jones, and a host of other players out, yet they are better equipped to deal with injuries compared to us. why is that the case?

  79. Anyone who boo’s the manager is a cretin,end of.Nothing , absolutely nothing good can ever come from negativity.

    logic!! well done!!

  80. GA

    no one is infallible, but a little bit of “putting things in perspective” from a lot of “fans” would also be great…

  81. In all the bullshit and excuses.

    drew10, has a fucking valid point. We should have songs for all our players like we did at Highbury. I use to love that. We would start at Seaman then go right through to Ian Wright Wright Wright Wright right down to Rocky Rocastle. Ahh…Good times man…Good times.

    40,000+ fans can’t all be fucking idiots but hey!

  82. Trouble is Jonny, the FA Cup game is a week away. That is going to be a long time.

  83. Anirudh I think a great many Arsenal fans seem to forget that AA23 has only once been played in his preferred position and that was in the CC this year and he had a blinder. How do we as fans expect him to recover his best form playing for 15 minutes here and there out of position under the sort of pressure where even a single stray pass or missed dribble is met with cries of disapproval from the fans.

    This is a guy who has rarely complained about being played out of position and we haven’t heard a word from him about being dropped except that he knows he needs to be doing better. This is a guy who can score amazing goals regularly, a guy who can beat defences on his own. He can’t defend but then he is naturally a number 10 how many of them can?

  84. i love Wenger, i like what he has done for us, but i am not under the illusion that we are in a great position, or that all is well.

    lol…wihtout winning a single trophy we are the 3rd richest club in the world….i rest my case…

    whoever calims that arsenal as a club is in abad position just because its current first squad is comprised of young kids , injured players and secodn rate buys then he is clueless and missing the point. havent won a title in 6 years? lol so what…show me any past era when arsenal was owning the country and world football and lets see which era is better…lol…

  85. Yup Wavey, I’ve heard that too – I actually applied for a job at Arsenal 18 months ago selling Corp Hospitality, was filled by the time I got in contact sadly, saw the perks offered two Season Tickets, and just ploughed straight in, didnt look at anything else…….

  86. To boo or not to boo, that is the question. I’m taking the positives from the game: Nico played well, Ox ripped Raf a new one and Los is just outstanding.

  87. To boo or not to boo, that is the question. I’m taking the positives from the game: Nico played well, Ox ripped Raf a new one and Kos is just outstanding.

  88. Luke, I’m sorry if you feel patronised but you are in no position to know how long Wenger has known about these issues. Don’t kid yourself about having the “audacity” to suggest anything. You are like me an armchair manager. We both know “f**k all” about what is going on behind the scenes. And we can very easily spend 20-30m on players and claim its good business. We were all expecting Gibbs to be back in December.

    Another question for you and those other wise guys do you really think that Wenger is deliberately jeopardising the team because of blind, misplaced loyalty to certain players?

  89. Goonerton, it created a real connection between the fans and the players. But now it seems we have about 4 songs in total. There is no ‘Good ol’ Arsenal or songs that are genuinely ours. Not even come on you reds, variety is called for it makes us sound so shite really. It does my fucking head in, we used to have a song for each player, fuck me I even remember us singing Gus Ceasers name!

  90. cesc_ara | January 23, 2012 at 11:15 am

    No good can also come from fans who blindly follow a manager, fans that would follow him regardless of how many wrong turns he makes. the logic in there is wanting.

    Barceloan achieved a lot with Rijkaard and with a squad that was less talented than what Pep has, when he started losing the dressing room, they sacked him. the club is bigger than any individual, regardless of how many sterling achievements he has accumulated along the way.

    A fans first allegience as GA said is to the team, not a player, not a manager. if it isnt yours, there is something wrong with you.

  91. Cesc

    the fraility of our business model is seriously exposed when we have a drop in matchday revenue and no propoerties sold.

    3rd richest club in the world? dont be ridiculous.

    We have matchday revenue only bettered by united, but our commercial revenue is in the same league as Napoli, a good £150 million off Bayern (the most successful commerical club)

    How do we plan to grow our revenue streams with falling attendances, unsubscribed club level seats, no Champs League revenue, and a cotinued departure of our best players.

    Our club is on a fricking knife edge – we need to sort our act now, and start winning games, we cant hope that chelsea keep on slipping up.

  92. if you think that fans were/are always going to give the pass to the manager because of what he had achieved, maybe you are the one that has lost the plot, maybe you need to get rid of the AW tainted glasses you have.

    lol tainted glasses….give it a rest mate.

    i will happily support and defend one of the greatest managers in the game of football instead of listening to the emotional outbursts of a few cretin little englanders who cant even kick the ball straight and want to pass judgement on football;s last alchemist.

    and the best part? ….he is doing it for my club…arsenal…heheh i would be an idiot to want anything else other than wenger in control of arsenal.

    wenger equals stability, security , safety, unbelievable class, and the reassurance that step by step we will achieve greatness. he is our ticket to the bayern barca milan salloons. he has my uncodnitional support because i know how to judge the work of managers and i understand what he meant when he said ” time and patience” about 5 years ago. a amanger takes hold of his position with the idea in his brain that he is charge for 100 years and not for 6 months or two years….LONG -TERM. thats teh only way to build. another thing many havent grasped…wenger builds….. he doesnt take short-cuts. building takes time and a lot of hit and miss till you get it right.

    those who havent understood what wenger and arsenal are doing complain and nag like gossip wives……

  93. Acrylic Altair

    Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd have collectively spend 2.5bn more than Arsenal and that is why they are above us…in the short term…Read the latest version of “Arsenal The making of a Modern Superclub” by Alex Fynn and Kevin Whitcher. You will see that we couldn’t afford the 2.75m for Robin van Persie and had to delay the transfer for a year. It takes time to become financially stable

  94. Plus points from yesterday – Kos was excellent again (I am sure some stupid gooners were saying he was shit last year!) Ox looked dangerous, Rosicky played really well, Per had a good game, Nico came on and did a great job. Park looked sharp and lively when he came on.

    Disappointments from yesterday – Song looked off the pace for the third game in a row, Ramsey looks knackered, Johan and TV5 are completely at see as full backs. Theo was again trying too hard I think he feels the pressure from the crowd more than any other player we have. RVP missed a chance??? What the fuck??

  95. frailty of our business model? lol

    certification of quality ….lol

    3rd richest in the world thanks to our business model……lol…

    what frailties mate ?

  96. Oxlade-Chamberlain that is now 3 premier league starts and 3 defeats surely he is bringing us down and should be sold now. I said so after the last game and nobody listened now he has cost us another 3 points.

    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  97. @ KG
    You saw that funny Ox and Walcott drama too? The Ox just saw the miss and walked away. I think that Walcott needs to tone down the over reaction. First Jenkinson now Ox. It was comical though.

  98. Acryllic Altair | January 23, 2012 at 11:24 am

    lol…look my freind …my allegiance is with the man that is doing his outmost for the benefit of my club ..and that is undeniably Arsene Wenger.

    i dont care what barca did to raijkard…all i know is that barca has been wroking for 4 decades with johan cruyff to instill the principles of total football and that prior to the 2006 final against us, barcelona was nicknamed “LOSERS” and i also remember them peps, rivaldos and luis enriques getting disgraced by redondos hierros and rauls until it all clicked with the generations of puyol and xavi and only after juan la porta had embarked on one of the greatest club investments in club history.

    you want it all to happen in less than a decade ? sorry but youre mad if you expect that.

  99. LoveTheWayYouPlay

    I feel that if Alex Oxlade Chamberlain comes out and says that he was indeed getting tired and/or that he had signalled, it will shut the imbeciles up, give a moral boost to the manager and club.

    However I doubt that. He would probably use the negativity around Arshavin to boost his own career. Sorry I am being cynical. I would love to be proved wrong though.

  100. Georgaki | January 23, 2012 at 11:31 am,

    And how much are we wasting on players that cant seem to cut it? What the other teams spend, they spend, but what worries me is the amount of waste we have and how much it limits players that we can bring in. we are three or four players away from getting an elite team, but we will not get there because we have almost a dozen players holding those few deals back, players that we cannot offload because they are on huge wages no one else will pay.

    cesc_ara | January 23, 2012 at 11:31 am,

    For all the great things he symbolizes, he also symbolizes a team that has won nothing, and a team with a broken wage structure, a team that continues to lose its best players and rather than lower its wage commitments raises them. he symbolizes sheer waste in funds and huge trust in under achievers. Genius he may be, paerfect? far from it. maybe you ought to also accept that.

  101. altair why is there so much fear in you when you talk about arsenal; ?

  102. I think our business model seems excellent. We are in a good place financialy; but ulitimatly we are a sports club, and a big one at that. Success is measured on the pitch and should be underpinned by a sound balance sheet. A great balance sheet with no trophies in the cabinet will slowly but surely see our status drop. A bit like Liverpool in the 90’s. top players want to go to a club who will win things, not a club that does OK but makes money.

    I will support the club either way, it is not a choice.

  103. I wouldn’t say he is deliberately jeopardising the team by his loyalty to certain players, that’s just a bi-product.

    And I don’t understand this we are in the dark, we know nothing of what’s happening behind the scenes theme that seems to be the defensive of many.

    We need a LB and a striker. It’s really as simple as that. Am I supposed to accept the club is doing everything it can under a black canvas of secrecy? Do we naively assume that in the day and age of twitter, FB etc and instant unrestricted information sharing that the releases/rumours/newspaper trends are founded on absolutely nothing, every single time? Do you think that in an age where political uprisings can be run via such sites in countries like Iran, that some factual information about Arsenal won’t be released to individuals who deal with the club every day?

    Am I supposed to accept that we are doing everything we can as a football club to resolve (again) or our obvious weakness despite no action, no success, but see lesser clubs move with relative ease for the additions they need?

    Either we are doing nothing about the huge and obvious gaps in the squad (despite having the financial clout to do so), which is utterly ridiculous or we have a front office so incompetent it makes QPR look like Goldman Sachs, which in itself is again utterly ridiculous

    It all comes back to the same point, do you think Arsenal Football Club is trying to be the best it can be or do you think it’s trying to achieve its baseline target with minimal investment?

    I’ll always go support the fecking boys and sing my little heart out, but it’s getting so painful at the moment because it doesn’t need to be like this.

    If we were pump, with pump players, no cash etc, reasonable ticket prices and we were performing like this, it’d be okay, but we are not. We are one of the most elite clubs in world football.

  104. For all the great things he symbolizes, he also symbolizes a team that has won nothing, and a team with a broken wage structure, a team that continues to lose its best players and rather than lower its wage commitments raises them. he symbolizes sheer waste in funds and huge trust in under achievers. Genius he may be, paerfect? far from it. maybe you ought to also accept that.

    hmmmmm spoken like a true spud

  105. t all comes back to the same point, do you think Arsenal Football Club is trying to be the best it can be or do you think it’s trying to achieve its baseline target with minimal investment?

    well obviously its the second and finally someone is figuring it out ..even if it took you 6 years…..

  106. Cesc,

    Not fear, i embrace reality. and reality knocks and tells me that we are likely to see the underachieving lot longer than what most anticipate. that we are still likely to piss of wages, a reality that we have not won anything for 6 years, likely 7. that for the first time in a decade and a half we will not be in the CL.

    That aint fear, its a fan embracing the current for what it is…………and at this moment, it isnt that great

  107. Got to hand it to Man Ure (as the bile rises in my throat) , they targetted the fullback areas & once AOC went off they switched Park for Rafael & pushed Valencia on from full back.

    I don`t see Fergie as a tactical genius I just think he listens more to his numbers 2`s (since Mclaren) than Arsene does. Fine margins & all that.

    On the booing – it`s b&llocks. Fifteen minutes to go , we`ve just got back to one all … get behind the team. Society eh ?

  108. Luke you really don’t think the club has contingency plans for this sort of thing? We have prepared carefully for the possibility of no CL and falling gates – this is far from the ‘End of Days’ you are painting.

    The commercial revenue is currently hamstrung – but that’s isn’t down to bad planning – it was a necessity in order to get the stadium built.

    These are lean years and the club knew they would be and have walked the best line they can. You might disagree with the spending model and there ARE many fans who have called for a loosening of the purse strings – but regardless of that we are still in a deeply enviable position to almost all the non-sugar-daddied clubs around us.

    We shouldn’t be blase about the situation but neither should we lose perspective – cool heads and broad shoulders.

    A long week Yogi? Tcha. Walk in the park mate. Walk in the park.

  109. “hmmmmm spoken like a true spud”

    that from someone who took exception with our past, someone who has openly stated that he will support the manager no matter what? SMH, SMH.

    You are the one fan that signifies status quo. i dont like the negative fans, but they are likely to bring about change with all their negativity than you would with your blind worship of all things AW.

  110. Luke – “If we were pump, with pump players, no cash etc, reasonable ticket prices and we were performing like this, it’d be okay, but we are not. We are one of the most elite clubs in world football.

    This is the root of most supporters frustration I believe. The last sentence is an interesting one though; are we? It is certainly up for debate. We have never won our own lge back to back and have never won the CL. We have not won our own lge for coming up a decade. Yet we have have a world class stadium, and over the past few years had some world class players. In 2004 we had one of the finest teams in world football. We have one of the most sought after managers in world football. We are an enigma and a paradox.

  111. Sagna Jenkinson Santos Gibbs

    Coq Arteta Wilshire

    Gervinho Chamakh Diaby

    That is who was not able to play yesterday. Almost an entire team, this seasons injuries have been bad even by our standards. Yet we still competed yesterday. Come on guys its not all bad, get some of these back and we can still win enough games to scrape top 4, let’s not lose faith just yet!

  112. Jonny – I am not meaning to paint an ‘End of Days’ outlook, merely highlight that our much lauded financial stability is heavily geared on matchday revenue, and this looks to be the biggest risk if this season ends with no CL football.

    I appreciate the cash surplus that has been kept for this eventuality, however, I’d much rather that was available for new players in any instance, not the covering of operational costs / any shortfall from matchday revenue.

    I am still at ends why (again) we are not adding quality to squad that desperatley needs it.

  113. well altair the reality is this :

    arsenal never a big club in the mould of the ones wenger is trying to get us to.
    arsenal never a rich club to attract the best players of world football
    arsenal hit climax in 04
    arsenal went back to level 0 with new stadium , new team
    arsenal needs to buy low and sell high for a few years
    arsenal invests on facilities to create and develop players so that they dont get mugged by agents and divas
    arsenal was on a 15-20 year repaymant plan which wenger has managed to slice in to half…within 7 years we owe somehting comical like 130m while making 55m+ per year the last 3 running.
    our squad is not at the point where it should be judged as the finsished and ready article.

    if you still dont get it ill try another example….epl = an environment of sharks….like poker…if you go play poker with people who have more funds than you and you start betting ( spending|) like them they will take all yoru money and you will sit there like a wanker crying about your money and your low self control. in such “tables” like the epl’s where you are up against sharks you dont go gung ho like an idiot. you sit and wait for the right time to strike.

    there is no point NOW to compete directly against teams that can spend 25 and 30 and 50m per position….the clue here is that these clubs will not be able to do this forever, while wenger has managed to remain very very close to all these guys and has a debt free stadium and a team approcahing its climax in terms of prime years who will hopefully use all these bad experiences they have accumulated to good effect.

    wenger is waiting for his rivals spending cycles to end so that he takes advantage of the next cycle.. until that time comes he will make minimal investments to keep his team in paying positions. he has done so fantastically well so far that even if the club misses on champions league revenue it can still stay on it own two feet.

    i dont know what you see …but i see a person building and waiting to strike at the right momment…obviously the epl climate right now with sheiks and russians isnt ideal..if he tries any gung ho shit the club could go bust mate…he knows what he is doing.

  114. Ave been thinking bout the reason being given as to why Oxo was subbed, and think of it this way, if wenger was so worried bout the young lad getting injured or had a stretched calf n all that, then with this same INSTINCTS why dint he rest Wilshere back then and prevent this prolonged time out he’s had tho he’s about near fitness, but it begs to wonder if that sub was for that reason….
    Another thing that pissed me off most is the comparison by country status, aa23 is the russian captn…..That’s just crap!! I thought good players are rated by their skill and work-rates…????

  115. Acryllic – last I checked we were still in two trophies and in the hunt for 4th/3rd.

    If you haven’t got the stomach for the ride, I suggest you go and play on ‘the swings’ with the other children who didn’t meet the minimum height requirements for the real adventures.

  116. My geniune worry this season is that if we do not make the CL places (which is a very real possibility at this stage). The club will not go into meltdown by any means as we will have budgeted for this, but the knock on effect could be huge.

    First, RvP could realistically leave. He would be 27, one of Europe’s top strikers and should be playing CL football. Those that do finish in the 4 would strengthen healivy IMO. None of them are afraid to splash the cash as we already know. Our recruitment would be severly hampered by the loss of CL money and could fall way behind the top 4 .

    All of that sound very doom and gloom, but that is the reality of our situation at the moment IMO.

  117. Aaron, I think had we had spare players to come in he may have risked Ox for longer but we just dont have the cover now. And he has every right to say Arshavin is the Russian Captain and that he trusts him to do a job if he brings him on.

    We simply cannot afford any more injuries.

  118. han you would with your blind worship of all things AW.

    it aitn blind worship though mate….i know what i support and why ..christ im even explaining it to you …… you can not knock my logical well thought arguements and replies just because it doesnt suit yoru agenda of presenting us an underachieveing club with a manager who has lost it…yorue the one who has lost your faith …not me. i know that clubs need decades to reach the heights youre asking arsenal to reach… not 5 or 6 years….

    its the arsenal fans who have lost it..not wenger …

    wenger has to generate 25m surpluss per year for the banks …yet some of you cretins are still asking where the kolo and ade money is? lol…..

  119. Jabba's Delights

    Cesc

    Fook the substitution who knows whether AOC was injured or not bar arsene. If Arsene was going to get booed it shold have been for his complete and utter tactical naivity he sent our team out again. How many times has the bloke got to have his pants pulled down by better managers in recent year for him tio change his game

    Were you suprised last week when Miquel was bombing forward like he was Santos? coutless times he got caught out upfield which led to goals. So why the fuck was djourou doing the same against probably the best winger in the league. He was constantly trying to get back into position rather than ebing in position. Why was he not told to be more conservative.

    8-2 we tried to play our same type of football with huge injuries. Why is Arsene sending out our make shift full backs to try and do the same job as starting players its completely idiotic. If he isnt doing that and the players are just disobeying him then that also refelcts awfully.

    The booing was awful i was most embarrased by the cheering when some fans had heard Djourou had been subbed off, but lets be clear about this, the manager is a very unpopular figure at the moment and you can take that minority stuff and do one. Thats not to say all want him sacked but that is to say he 100% hasnt got any more credit in the tank and deserves to be treated like one of the highest paid coaches who is geeting ZERO reaction from his side over 12 month period despite vast resources.

    Bukllshit to the excuses. Tactically outclassed agin yesterday just like we were the week before. The highest paid manager in the league is meant to win you points in a year not lose you them

  120. @jabba hes not the highes paid manager in the leage. Both Mancini and AVB is above him, so is also SAF now….

  121. i think the reaction to RVP’s reaction yesterday is a classic case of people trying to stoke some flames out from nothing. they are wishing that RVP would fall out with wenger over that decision and walk out on arsenal.

    as wenger said of the media: you reflect the fans’ fears, as well as create it.

    don’t underestimate the power of the media. and their lack of ethic standards. that is why i am not reading any reports except the one here and the one on the club website.

  122. goonerandy – We have some brilliant players coming through. The likes of Wilshire, Coq, Frimpong, Ox. Ad that to players we know will stay, Chesser, TV5, Gibbs, Sagna, Jenkinson, Ramsey, Kos. Gervinho we will still have a very competitive team.

    I would like to think that Song would stay also but not entirely sure on that one.

    Yes losing RVP would be terrible but I still have a feeling he will stay. Something I didn’t with either Cesc or Na$ri. I think the words of his in the program make interesting reading about Henry’s goal. “It was a magical night and one that every Arsenal fan will always remember. Everything just came together and created a great evening for all of us that love this club.”

    The word ‘us’ is the one that stands out for me.

  123. anyway the evidence of intelligence is to be able to adapt to different situations and different environments.
    Lets hope AW can do so too…

  124. Aaron,

    if wenger indeed take oxlade off for fear of injury, then that just shows you that he LEARNT from wilshere’s case.

  125. Acrylic Altair

    It is really a waste of time responding to you but it’s lunchtime. You make references to the huge amounts of money being wasted at Arsenal. Clearly, you are not so well informed. Arsenal’s accounts are available for public scrutiny. I believe the media acknowledges and always refers to Arsenal as the “best run and stable club”. As Arsene said the other day, (word to the effect not vebatim) “England is broke, Europe is broke and you slaughter us for our financial prudence”.

    It would really be better and a more enjoyable debate if you were better informed before to post anything…

  126. CA – “wenger has to generate 25m surpluss per year for the banks

    You state this as fact, when it is anything but. I don’t want to get into the “how much is availbe” debate becuase nobody outside of the boardroom really has any clue. But we have been told that there is money there if needed, and that the stadium debt is compleetly seperate to our transfer dealings. There has never, ever, been any sort of noises that we have had to sell to finance the debt.

  127. Drew10 – Fair points, I don’t agree on the RvP one, but yuo are right, we still do have a good squad. But if it is not good enough this season, and we struggle to suplement it (as other clubs will) we could see the gap widen.

  128. The spuds played their hearts out n lost. Fingers crossed they take play from the Arsenal Playbook and lose 4 to 5 games.

  129. altair sorry but you aint convincing

    if arsene was going to be booed? lol …….only ungreatful cretins would dare boo arsene.

    miquel ? i like him, he doesnt have fear when dealing with the ball , that he is playing in a position where his awareness is not yet cultivated and can expose us thats nto concerning me at all cause i can see its only an emergency for one game or two….and in any case it wasnt miquel;s fault for losing at swansea..they were all at fault…make it 3-0 at half tiem and render miquel;s inexperience irrelevant.

    i also see you have a lot of issues with what wenger earns …an arguement ive heard countless times thrown around by our rivals ….what do you care what he makes,.,,is he not worth it? lol…what hes done for us is priceless mate. he works the hardest therefore deserves his pay package.

  130. Luke

    Our fullbacks at the start of the season were… Jenkinson, Sagna, Gibbs, Santos

    2 for each position, Eboue and Clichy making way for fresh recruits. Santos has been a decent signing, while Jenkinson looks like a good prospect who can do a job when need be. Then we have Vermaelen and Koscielny who can and HAVE played in them positions previously.

    So that’s 6 players for 2 positions in fact.

    We should have had more than enough bodies to last the season, but events mean that once again we are struggling in certain positions. You cannot blame the manager for that because nobody even knew of a LB in the shape of Santos who could be brought in to play in our first team last summer. Wenger pulled one out the bag again last summer imo.

    Is there a player available now for us to bring in at fullback, who knows, but to say we could have been better prepared is completely wrong.

    Problem has been in attack..

    His signing of Park has been made to look like a joke because he doesn’t play him. Can he play wide? If not he is stuck playing back up to Van Persie, so we won’t see him much logically with Chamakh our 2nd choice…. that is what really needs to be addressed though. If he is good enough its his turn, Chamakh has had his, if not the transfer window is open to find another player who can do a better job than our backup striker right now.

    I agree that something can be done, but everyone raging about the manager not having a big enough squad or good enough squad is pointless. Chamakh was a good striker at one point, Arshavin is the Russia captain, Theo is an international who was played some unbelievable games for us, they should be performing better.

  131. You state this as fact, when it is anything but.

    oh yes it is

  132. Aka our post Carling Cup form

  133. Andy I honestly think there is a good chance RVP will leave regardless. I don’t see a season out of the CL would be in any way good but it’s FAR from insurmountable.

    I don’t see the point in worrying about things out of our control – AW is still the man for the job. You are 100% right about reserving the right of criticism but having accepted he is the man for the job we have to place our fate in his hands – not levelled at you, but now is not the time for sniping, weak-knees and lily-livers.

    Hope the squad has more guts than some of our fanbase.

    Honestly some of you are fucking embarrassment. Yes Jabba, I’m looking at you.

  134. i think the reaction to RVP’s reaction yesterday is a classic case of people trying to stoke some flames out from nothing. they are wishing that RVP would fall out with wenger over that decision and walk out on arsenal.

    as wenger said of the media: you reflect the fans’ fears, as well as create it.

    don’t underestimate the power of the media. and their lack of ethic standards. that is why i am not reading any reports except the one here and the one on the club website.

    someoen who can see !!! well said1

  135. Well, I think we need a signing now to reverse the air of negativity surrounding the club. If the home crowd contnues to moan and groan for evry missed pass and boo substitutions they don’t like the team will not be able to drag themselves ahead of Chelsea.

  136. yesterday was a bad result.

    bad first half, good second half, except for that one mistake which led to their goal.

    i think yesterday was a disappointment not because we lost to united, but because it was the third defeat in a row, including 2 which shouldnt have happened.

    yesterday was in many ways regrettable. the booing. the furore over the substitution. key players not delivering.

    i would like to know what is the mood in the dressing room right now. are fingers being pointed? i hope not. i think we have reached a watershed in our season.

    i hope the squad can get together for a heart-to-heart talk, for a clear-the-air talk. thrash things out. make sure everyone is on board for this cause. if you are not up for the fight, then you should say so. and not let everyone doubt your commitment.

    the same goes for the fans.

    when we clawed to 4th before new years eve, there was this sense of euphoria, because it had seemed so impossible. i always thought we would be 4th by christmas. i just didnt expect that there would be more twists and turns. i thought once we got there, we would stay there and only climb up, because of the returning players and the developing chemistry as the new players settle in.

    so now we are 5 points behind chelsea. 16 games to go. we could have been in 4th by now, yes. i am disappointed that we aren’t.

    i am sure the players and wenger are too.

    but it isn’t over yet.

    i honestly don’t think booing helps. i do think it is time wenger stops protecting the players who are letting him down. but i also think most of the players are clever enough to assess their own performances honestly. what i don’t want is finger pointing. what i want is for the players to have that clear-the-air talk, be a man and put their hands up and say what mistakes they have made in teh last 3 games that contributed to us not getting the points we wanted.

    everyone is at fault.

    the last thing we need in a difficult time like this is division in the squad. especially one fuelled by the media and some fans.

  137. Jabba's Delights

    Poodle

    AVB is 5m and Macini is something like 3m significantly less than arsene the only person the club who has broken its wage structure for

  138. @AA
    Are you trying to make a connection between our wage bill and us “underachieving”? Are you basically saying that we should be in a better position considering how much we are paying our players?

  139. CA – “oh yes it is

    Ah, my bad then.

    If it is fact you must have gotten your information from some quotes I take it? Couple you please link to them so I can have a read myself, it must be a very interesting artcily where a member of the board (or maybe Arsene himself) has detailed some of the inner workings our our financial issues.

    Or of course, you have just made it up.

  140. I was confused at the time of the substitution but if there was a risk of an injury then bringing on the Russian captain for 15mins should be plausible!

    We lost the game and there were several players to blame for the goals. We have to get back up now and try grab 3 points after we knock Villa out the cup.

    We could have won that game yesterday, people seem to remember the defensive mistakes rather than the inability of some to score. Van Persie’s was the worst miss the emirates has seen.

    Enough nit-picking, time to go on a little run.

  141. A signing to reverse the air of negativity??
    Unless he ‘s bringing in Messi I can’t really see a quick turn around by some of the support.

  142. Ríçhîèé Waweru

    You never know what would float the booers’ boat. It could be someone as mundane as Scott Parker. Or Gary Cahill.

  143. @GA
    I agree that Arsene is not beyond critcism. But it’s not like he hasn’t been criticised on here yesterday and today for his mistake. That he has even had the grace to admit that it was the wrong decision however only makes me respect him more, not less.

  144. Jabba's Delights

    Jonny

    I was at the game yesterday as i was at villa last season and the last thing i will ever do is boo. the one thing i am entitled to is come on here and vent as low and behold everythign that some of us cretins thought might happen in the summer is happening. There is nobody else for you idiots to blame other than the groundsman and wenger .

    The club is in trouble much more than you understand and the manager is a big part of that. Show me anything to suggest he isnt

  145. february is a decisive month.

    we resume our premiership campaign at bolton. then blackburn, sunderland. then we play the first leg against Milan, then hopefully another FA cup game. and spuds.

    we could be horribly off 4th, out of the fa cup, almost out of the champs league by the end of feb.

    the question i want to ask everyone, from wenger to the players to the fans, is:

    are you up for it? will you fight?

    right now, we are in a very difficult position. we need everyone together.

    not people backstabbing the team, undermining the efforts of the others.

  146. Plus what players and the manager earns is none of our business. What someone gets to feed his family should be none of our concern.

  147. be braced for a very difficult 2012. even worse than summer 2011.

    i don’t know if rvp, song, theo are going to stay. i really don’t know. and with the euros, you have to be prepared that some key players are not going to be fit/injured, in addition to the usual injury curse that we have.

    so you have to be prepared for lots of turmoil.

    the media will do what it has been doing the past few years, but on an even larger scale.

    hope you are up for it.

  148. Jonny – Yup, sounds about right.

  149. goonerandy – I am hanging on to any shred of hope where RVP is concerned. However I do agree we will need to strengthen although Coq is going to be class. Frimpong was running the midfield against Villa for Wolves and when he went off they went totally shite. These are players brought up inside the club and know what it means to pull on that shirt.

  150. F#ck Manchester, thats what I say

  151. I hope Frimps comes back in tip top shape. He was impressive for Wolves.

  152. @drew
    Agreed. We have the youth coming through to be able to replace most of those rumoured to leave. The only one that we can’t replace from our ranks is Robin, that’s the one position we would have to do some shopping for. Joel Campbell looks a good prospect but I am not sure if he will be ready next year.

  153. Drew – Yeah very true. I think both will be excellent players also. The thing is with RvP, I am sure he loves the club. But I was also sure that Cesc and Henry did (and do) before him. At 27 years old it will be the bigeest contract of his career, and his last chance to get a very big pay day. Will he comitt to a club which cannot offer CL football and will pay him less than plenty of other clubs? He might of course, but you could also understand if he decided that it was time for a move.

    I really hope not; to lose your best 2 players in consecutive season is not really a sign of a club moving in the right direction.

  154. Drew10

    Agree with your point about AA playing out of position and not complaining..I have been I guess amongst his most vocal defenders, and yes I do believe its difficult for him to get his form back in 15 minute spurts and playing on the left..

    However now I am slowly starting to accept that maybe he is not doing enough in training to warrant that starting place ahead of Ramsey or Rosicky at the moment..

  155. to some of the people here:

    you think you are the only one who is hurting when we don’t win? you think the people who are more positive, who get behind the team even in such difficult times aren’t hurting?

    if bashing the team is your way of venting your frustration- fine. but there are places to do that. not here. if you can’t accept that some people have chosen to stay positive, then leave. there are enough places where you can go to seek solace with like-minded people.

    you are just wasting your time, and other people’s time here.

  156. I was not at the game, but my first reaction to watching RvPs reaction was that he was dismayed at the crowd booing rather than questioning Wenger’s sub.

    Personally I was hugely pissed off after the Swansea game, I was not after this one.

    I felt the team did put the effort in, only the result was disappointing.

    For me there were some major positives, not least of all OX followed by Yennaris.

    I also enjoyed Rosicky’s game, and I do feel that Ramsey needs a rest.

    I did see someone else also thought Park (ours), looked lively when he came on.

    KOS was unbelievably good, and I am also tired of all the trash being pewed up about Mertesecker.

    Our BFG is awesome, it’s only the media trying to get a dig in because Wenger refused to buy their favourite (cahill) for stupid money – Mertesecker is on a completely different planet to that plodder anyway.

    Booing is NEVER acceptable unless it’s aimed at the opposition.

    Once again, with the caveat that I was watching on TV, I thought the booing was for taking off OX, not neccessarily for AA’s arrival, but then some seem to have provided clarity on that.

    Nevertheless, it wouldn’t have helped the player coming on, nor the rest of the team, so it was 100000000% conter-productive, it just isn’t on, and anyone who claims they pay their money so they can do what they want should just be ejected form the stadium with no right of return for future games (right of admission reserved and all that).

    Yes, I was amazed at the sub, and despite the claims, I do think Wenger made a pre-planned sub, which is sad from both my and his pov.

    We have got time to fix this, but Wenger needs to find some answers sooner rather than later, and I don’t mean in the purchasing arena.

    Btw, I don’t think blind loyalty helps either (the rabid pro’s are as bad as the rabid doomers imo), but the team does need support, as does the manager – he and they are what we have right now, so give them all the support we have.

  157. why is this message awaiting moderation ?

    goonerandy | January 23, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    http://swissramble.blogspot.com/search/label/Arsenal

    and also http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/oct_11/gun__1318505919_Arsenal_Holdings_plc_Annual_Re.pdf pages 16 – 17 – 18

    Debt service reserve deposits of £31.5 million
    are also included in the total cash position
    although, being part of the security for the
    Group’s listed bonds, the use of these
    deposits is restricted. In addition, there is a
    balance of £6.6 million included which is held
    in connection with the site works at
    Queensland Road and which can be used only
    for that purpose.
    The Group’s activities were strongly cash
    positive for the year and the cash generated
    from operations was used as follows:
    The main components of the Group’s net
    debt are shown in the table on page 17. During
    the year, mainly as a result of the repayment
    of property bank loans, the Group’s net debt
    has been reduced from £297.7 million to
    £135.6 million.
    £m
    Cash from operations 176.5
    Net cash from player transfers 15.9
    Payment of taxation ( 6.3 )
    Investment in fixed assets ( 5.3 )
    Net interest payments ( 17.6 )
    Debt repayment – property ( 129.6 )
    Debt repayment – football ( 5.6 )
    Increase in year-end cash 28.0
    Financial Review (continued)

    when we first started ..our debt for the stadium was 297m ..now its 135

    297-135 = 161m which has been paid back in the meantime

    this meantime is 6 years ..161 / 6 = 26,8m per year …..ok my bad ..i said 25 ..sorry …. hehe

    the quicker you pay it back the less you pay on interest ..therefore it made absolute sense to use the kolo and ade money to cover holes or expedit their repayment phase.

    dont forget that during this same 6 year period they had the scare with the property development..two times more sense to pay back quickly ..the minute money came in , it went straight to cover holes…and it was the right thing to do.

  158. poor first half but when yanaris came on we quickly looked to have more shape. I was impressed with the youngster who looks to have pace and the will to get forward. I dont blame djourou, he surely does his best but sadly its not good enough. Trouble is we dont have much choice. Our injuries are baffling to me. It seems year after year we have these issues.Koz was outstanding, and as many have said chamberlain looks to have the Arsenal way. Things have to change quickly, i think everyone agrees with that and a good result against villa playing with pace, directness,good passing and desire

  159. And what does your venting achieve anyway Jabba? You are just annoying what is predominantly a sanguine bunch of supporters – you’re thoughts are much the same as they have been for the last couple of years.

    Some of us understand that football is about more than just trophies and, speaking for most of those people, we don’t much care to listen to you vent repeatedly about the same shit.

  160. For the next proper league match I hope to see Yennaris start (unless one of our proper FBs recovers in time) as well as Ramsey given a rest and Rosicky started.

  161. I think AOC was superb in defence .He tracked back endlessly ,never once leaving his fullback exposed.
    And for an 18 year old to make all those ,clean as a whistle tackles in the box and not give away a penalty kick,was nothing short of amazing.

  162. Chris good comments mate, but “Van Persie’s was the worst miss the emirates has seen” – not even close, Gervinho must have one or two to contend for a start!
    ;0)

  163. Villa in the cup – they might as well give up now, Bolton are going to get their a*ses kicked, Blackburn – one word – revenge, Sunderland – O’Neill comes crashing back to earth, AC Milan in the San Siro – we’ve been there before and how sweet it was. All cannon fodder for when we mash the spuds at the Emirates.

    On the back of the performance in the second half yesterday all of the above are easily achievable. I’m massively disappointed with the result yesterday, but the next few games give us the perfect opportunity to bounce back.

  164. GA

    Remember that season when we went to the CL final and all everyone did was talk about the fact that it was Henrys last season..but he stayed..I think something similar will happen to RVP, I am confident he will realise how much the club and wenger have stuck by him for the injury ravaged first 5-6 seasons at the club and will sign on..Song and Theo I hope will follow suit..

    I think this is a good time for the club to sit them down and make them sign up quickly…Contract extensions from those 3 will provide a much greater lift now than the the most marquee or marquee signings..

    Rather than new signings I seriously think an announcement of those contract extensions is the boost we require at the moment, and it will make a huge difference

  165. Morning YW encore cest une bien equilibre post aujourd’hui.

    Goonerandy @ 10.33 I agree re point re Walcott. New contract huh?

  166. MikeSA

    Spot on does not do justice…great post!!

  167. Re the post.

    A small & vocal minority. I don’t think so…….

    Praise for Djourou’s early exit? But of course, no criticism for playing him in the first place? Yennaris in 2 FA Cup matches I have seen looks twice the player Djourou is. Sure he’s young, inexperienced & will make mistakes but considering Djourou is GUARANTEED to make mistakes every game he plays in regardless of position why not play the kid who was outstanding against Leeds only a fortnight ago? Nani’s contribution in the second half vs the first 45mins says it all. Yet Wenger should be praised for correcting his original selection error? Laughable.

    ‘Wenger admitted in the press conference he got this one wrong’ – I presume you mean the substitution? Which part of it? Hauling off our best player on the day who only minutes before had set up our equaliser & then created another chance straight afterwards? (The boy was flying for Gods sake!) Or putting on Arshavin? What did Wenger admit to? Show us the quote? All I heard him admit to was a tactical error? ‘One moment of inattention’ I think he said. He did not admit he got the substitution wrong – that’s just a plain lie!

    And to the people who comment, castigating fans for their reaction to Oxo’s substitution. Maybe you should look more at our captain’s reaction. Said it all for me.

    Why do you lot feel that in ‘supporting the manager’ you can only praise yet never be critical? If there was just one day to be critical of Arsene Wenger I’m afraid yesterday was it.

  168. Great post Mike – love the last para.

  169. Anyone who thinks that ‘rabid pros are as bad as rabid doomers’ in a football supporting context has a real problem and lacks credibility.

  170. What is most disappointing is we see how many fans have a ridiculous sense of entitlement.
    What is also clear is that the more stupid a person is, the more they believe that they know better than one of the greatest managers the game has ever produced, and someone who’s qualities of honesty,loyalty and integrity are lost on them.
    To steal from JFK “Ask not what your club can do for you, but what can you do for your club?”
    Supporting would be a start ,rather than endless whimpering.
    If we finish 7th or 8th I will look forward to the next season with as much relish as I did for the 05 season.

  171. The extremes at either end of any debate lack perspective frank – it’s well recognised in philosophical, scientific and theological discourse – why should football be any different?

    My inclination is to lean firmly to the left but the ‘left wing ultras’ would dismiss my ilk out of hand – the problem with that, is that it means dismissing almost all of the fanbase. If you can’t see the fallacy in that approach, perhaps you lack credibility yourself.

  172. I must admit, at the time i was slightly baffled by the subsitution, but if AOC was indeed cramping up then it was clearly the right thing to do.

    i certainly wouldn’t blame AA for the goal, he certainly contributed to it, but so did a number of other players contribute to the defeat.

    Unfortunately no natural full backs against a team who’s strength is their wide play was always going to make this a very tough game, and it didn’t take a genius to work out that the right tactic was to attack us there.

    Bob summed up perfectly the issue of booing at 11.06 – It just should not happen at the stadium to your own players or manager – absolutely moronic.

    The guy next to me booed Arshavin on, so I then told him to shut up and told he he was an idiot and he complained to a steward, who then thought about trying to kick me out for threatening behaviour before a good number of fans stepped in to back me and suggest the fool next to mere ejected – unbelievable.

    Still positives to take from the game, Kos is fast becoming one of, if not the best CH in the division, Nico did very well when he came on and that is the best Rosicky has played for us for sometime.

    Rambo looks shattered, Injuries to Diaby and Jack are not helping here.

    All is not lost – we need some luck with injuries, and if we can get something like our best 11 out of the field for the rest of the season we may just be OK – although 4th is looking difficult now.

  173. Well said George – ‘entitlement’ is the word I always think of with these D&G cretins – it’s a malaise of modern society anyway but they like to write it large as though they have suffered the ravages of injustice others have not.

    A day in the mines would do them good.

  174. Rabid pros?

    Sounds dangerous.

  175. pedantic george | January 23, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    😉 thats the spirit

  176. All this talk of 4th for CL football..bah..

    We are Winning the CL this season!!!

    Up the Arsenal!!!!!!!!!!

  177. the daily mail

    Van Persie vents fury at Arsenal boss Wenger over Oxlade-Chamberlain change

    ahahahah …. how much they love wenger in england !!!!

  178. ‘entitlement’ is the word I always think of with these D&G cretins

    Yes, they won’t be happy with anything less than winning the title.

  179. cesc

    You fell foul of the well-known moderation trap on here.

    All

    As I promised last week, moderation is now on. Nobody can post on here without a comment having been previously approved. That means that you will have to wait to see if you can post, be patient I’m with some grown-ups working at the moment. You’ll be freed when I get the chance. And for 37 of those waiting, I’ve seen your posts and judge that you were only looking for a row. Thus you am in the spam bin. And not coming out.

  180. Why shouldn’t they be entitled to winning the title?

    After all – they do or did have 1 or 2 seats in Club Level, have 1 share in the club, write a blog and allow you to have an opinion (as long as it agree’s with theirs) and are probabably great at Football Manager.

    Seems fair to me.

  181. ‘You am in the Spam Bin’…

    You are so down with the kids with your urban lingo YW.

  182. hey yogi hi , what foul ….lol ..the comment thats moderated incudes quoted links for the thing andy asked me…lol..i aint swearing at anything…lol..

  183. moderation is now on.

    Ah! I was beginning to get worried about Suga. Absent on a day like this!

  184. Richard

    You don’t think so? Well, more people did not boo than did yesterday which makes the dissenters the minority. As for the rest, well that’s your view.

    Frank

    Going to be with Jonny & yourself on this one. Supporting does not preclude argument away from the ground but during the 90 minutes, it does. Damn, this fence is uncomfortable…

  185. cesc

    2 links in one post.

  186. Matt

    One tries, one tries.

  187. Keyser

    No, he hasn’t posted. Probably thinks he won’t get a word in edgeways.

  188. When I was 10 years old I got a new bicycle for my birthday.It had straight handlebars and a three speed gears.I wanted drop bars and a five speed(like the one my friend got of his Dad who owned an Aston Martin garage) .I was hugely disappointed.
    I did not understand that my Dad could not afford it,and he had pushed his budget to the limit.
    I was an ungrateful ,ignorant ,selfish little boy.
    Now where the fuck are my new £30million+ players?

  189. I doubt many of them are good at football manager though. May be good at signing players in football manager.

  190. cesc

    2 links in one post.

    ah ok …so i take it …its only one link at a time ? / per comment?

  191. @Jonny
    Firmly agree on the way you adapted the political spectrum for supporting football clubs. And I agree that extremism can be a bad thing, even if it is good meaning like it is most of the time when it is on the left side of the spectrum. That’s the reason why I only very occasionally read Untold. They are sometimes just a bit too much for me. Don’t need a site telling me all is well after a miserable loss. But neither do I need to go and read websites that tell me all is bad when we are winning.

  192. Young Yennaris hinted in the match before that he may be ready for greater exposure, all in all though the fact that we looked to him rather than the experienced Djourou demonstrates how unfit for purpose Djourou is and should not be selected, let alone his substitution held up as being a demonstration of AW’s canny. He should just not be on any Arsenal pitch.

    I like the Arsenal players we have but if you took a couple of the bottom players and replaced them with top quality we would have a lot more strength in depth and skill.

    Nanni must have been quaking in his poor Portuguese booties at the prospect of having to face the wrath of the acting right back…… as he proclaimed last week. What a joke that was.

  193. Excellent, balanced write-up, YW.

    @ Frank | January 23, 2012 at 10:40 am

    @ Jonny | January 23, 2012 at 11:47 am

    @ cesc_ara | January 23, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Good posts.

  194. Now where the fuck are my new £30million+ players?

    The really smart ones though, don’t talk about 30 million pound players. They ratjer talk about mental strength, height, the medical staff, and of course Pat Rice.

  195. A disgusting reaction from some ticket holders yesterday. Of course there is an element of a pack mentality, but it is no excuse.

    Anyone who boo’ed or sang negative songs should be feeling guilty today, but they are probably not, beacause selfishness wont allow it.

    I don’t however think it is reflective of society as a whole. The Premier League is in a sickening greedy, self-righteous bubble all on its own.

  196. Jabba's Delights

    Jonny

    If you trully love the club you should want whats best for it. I firmly believe that our manager isnt that person anymore as every major indicator you or i can find suggests the team is getting worse and has been for a few years. If one of you actually ever bothered to come up with something other than ”he was great” or ”of course he knows what he’s doing or ”your a complete doomer a cunt” to back up your stupid flimsy arguments maybe those other major blogs might shut up.

    This is the the most important thing goign on at the club and if you love that club you should address it.

    George

    What do you do for your club…………….you blog, what else, how much of your hard earned goes into the club. I notice you were always asking for streams of our pre season games, couldnt afford the 1.50 on atv or just to fucking lazy.

    ”Supporting would be a start ,rather than endless whimpering.
    If we finish 7th or 8th I will look forward to the next season with as much relish as I did for the 05 season.”

    Is supportign going to 80% of games per year home and away cheering on the team rain or shine then BLOGGING ones true thoughts or is it sitting at home scratchin my dick all day telling people who travelled further, spent more, shouted more, cried more about their beloved club how to support it. We do know after all that you are the man that said ”i support arsene wenger not arsenal”, you have also come out with comments like that cesc said the other day about the Graham era.

    When you were calling every man and dog you could this summer that they were cunts for suggesting we would finish outside the top 4 with the way we were being run whats happened now. Who the idiot the person who cant see his arse from his ear or the perosn who clearlly understands football better than you. Stop changing your goal posts and for once in your life stick to something.

    If you support the club like a real fan you want us to be the best we can be.

    To much of the fanbase now the only way to improve it to get a new manager in as its much easier than you or jonny would have us believe when asked the question…………..”who could do better than him”……………..how long have you got???

    I

  197. Excellent news about the spam bin – I’m all for free speech but there have been a few too many eejits holidaying from the cess pit who have lot to talk about, but say nothing.

    Like a monkey with a miniature cymbal…

  198. If you support the club like a real fan you want us to be the best we can be.

    What is the best we can be? Don’t tell me we should win the title as that would be a miracle in the current circumstances. Even getting fourth place would be a miracle considering the resources available to the club in fourth at this point.

  199. @Jonny
    Firmly agree on the way you adapted the political spectrum for supporting football clubs.

    hmmm…. what i made of jonny;s comment is that being in one side off the spectrum is extreme, that you cant have valid comments to make.

    i dont know…..if one is convinced that say the americans attacked iraq for oil then to take an extreme anti-war attitude cant be wrong. can it?

    likewise if youre convinced that what the manager is doing is the right thing for ARSENAL then why not grant him unconditional support…?..why does it have to be the view of an extremist for someone who can clearly see that what wenger is doing is both logical and the right thing to do?

    its not about blind faith…its about being able to recognise what he is doing and agree with it. i agree with what he is doing and i am certain that he is the most qualified for what arsenal wants to do. so why live in doubt and fear ? lol my manager is arsene wenger..not sam allerdyce nor some cunt mourinho……

  200. I stand by what I said the other day….

    If it smell’s like a c**t, looks like a c**t and tastes like a c**t – it probably is a c**t.

  201. hot chip huh ….nice

    crap kraft dinner

  202. @Jabba
    Well; I will tell you one reason: under Wenger, we have constantly overachieved. Now, you might laugh this out of hand, but it’s true. In relation to our wage bill our league position over the past few years has been an overachievement. Realistically speaking, that we are 5th right now, is exactly in line with how much we pay our players. Liverpool, Chelsea, ManU and ManCity all have a bigger wage bill. In that same sense Spurs have overachieved as well. Still, if we finish 4th, we will have overachieved again. The reason why Wenger is held in such high regard is that he has managed to create competitive teams time after time after time despite working on a smaller budget than his competitors. And now that is a skill in itself. Every manage can go out, buy players for 100, 200 million pound and reap the rewards of that. Not every manage however can do what Wenger has done.

  203. In the whole supporting spectrum debate I can undersatnd the doom and gloom mentality. Some people are by nature pessimistic, and are worried about small things. They tend to look at the worst outcome in any possible situation. They are generally decent well meaning people.

    On the other hand, there are people who almost seems to relish misfortune to satisfy a small ego. They are optimists in a most perverse kind of way. They are not well meaning or decent, they are scary.

  204. I’m not against critsism of the team, or the Manager, as long as its at least constructive. Arsene has also said he is open to critisism, many times.

    But not three quarters of the way through a game against Man U when we are drawing 1-1 and have a chance of fucking winning! Not the time, nor the place!

    As for the type of critisism – to boo and sing negative songs is not constructive – its counter productive. Its not going to give us that extra edge to go on and win is it? How any sane person can think differently is beyond me.

    Next time, please do us all a favour – leave the ground, go home, have a cup of tea, and write a strongly worded letter. Or just tweet ‘booooo’ or something similar.

  205. evil talks sense, well said.

  206. Other major blogs, Jabba? Ha! Bullshit – by a very, very long way most of the blogs and most of the fans are still backing Wenger you are simply the (annoyingly vocal) minority.

    I know some of the reasons you come here Jabba it’s because your smart enough to have noticed that LG is populated by a mixture of children, ignoramuses, right-wing thugs, pub bores, racists, homophobes and outright despicable c*nts. The level of debate ranges from childish to non-existent and the moderators act like nazis as befits their agenda.

    Frankly I’m glad LG exists – all the scum can coagulate in the same piss-hole to froth, foam, gibber and rant, whilst we get on with the far more enjoyable job of supporting our club and beleaguered manager through thick and thin, debating topics by and large with respect and, for the most part, with an absence of self-entitled moaning old bitches like you.

  207. Jabba's Delights

    Keyser

    WHO THE FUCK HAS EVER TALKED ABOUT TROPHIES??????????????

    What about increased points?? seeing as our record has been poor against richer clubs for a while that would mean us beating teams with significantly smaller resources than us. We got 75 points 2 years ago, then 68 in the year where we should have ”judged me in may”, and are now well and trully on for our worst season in in 15 years ooooopps no wait that was last year our worst seaosn since last year thats what i meant.

    As it is we have reduced our points totals year on year for 3 years and look very much like doing it again this year. who’s a cunt now for saying 65 points in the summer. Arsene and a few of you for stating it could never happen or the fans who put forward a plausible argument as to why it could

    What about bettering the defence in the last 4 years? Can i ask my manager who has been so very loyal to stay with us and take about 30m out of the club in wages over the last 6 years to better a defence which he has repeatedly said isnt good enough. If each year he says this but then the following year it gets worse, should he not be questioned as to why the fuck cant a GOD like him even get half a decent defence out of all of these trully wonderful players we have on the books.

    Thats what i dont get with idiots like George. To him we have 8 world class defenders and yet we well concede over 50 prem goals this year which is worse than the 43 we conceded the year beofre which in turn is worse than 41 the year beofre that. For those of us who love our club we would like to know why thats the case and no that isnt entitlement. You go spend 1500 just on tickets then another 2000 on travel and refreshments on my wage and tell me i shoudnt take a fuckign educated interest into whats going on on the pitch other than rosicky comformatbly filling cesc shoes (another one of george classics)

  208. Saw touches of Rocastle in the Ox. Me thinks he’ll surpass the great man.

  209. Gutted we lost. Gutted we lost v Manure. Gutted it was our third defeat in a row.

    Utterly THRILLED that a section of the Emirates fan base – let’s call it The Boo Quarter – have made it all the way, in one short step, to the next final.

    The next final of Britain’s Got Talent. With their uncannily accurate impression of the braying masses at Ewood Park, that classless mob at Blackburn Rovers who routinely boo, abuse and bully their own players and staff regardless of occasion or context.

    Really. Quite. Brilliant.

    With a bit of luck they will win that final and earn themselves a victory flight on the first Virgin Galactic excursion due out in space any time soon (Simon Cowell eat your heart out).

    Our very own supporting Galacticos can become Galacti-goes.

    And stay there.

    Frank @ 10.40 – agree fully with your theory on fan demographics; where I sit in the Clock End, to my right is a misery guts (let’s call him “Misery Guts”) who is silent until the first home pass goes astray, the first shot is saved, the first goal is conceded – and then he lets rip.

    With the most foul abusive tirade worthy of any opposition supporter who has come just to wind up the home crowd.

    Immediately in front of me are four seats filled each week with new faces evidently at the stadium for maybe the first time, excited, enthusiastic (having their photos taken etc) and all stunned into appalled silence when, as he inevitably does, Mr M Guts starts up. Somebody stop him. Really. He embarrasses me but mainly he’s just letting himself down.

    And the team he kids himself he supports.

    Consolbob (10.13) – yep, it’s a sad and tragic ‘pack mentality’ all right but one that is by definition, set on a slippery slope to self-destruction as they float like prissy little butterflies landing on one player before settling on the next. Arshavin one week. Theo the next. Wenger every time.

    To call them tedious, spoilt little children would be unfair on any one under the age of 18.

    Or 8, for that matter.

    And it IS a bully’s mentality – I’ve read hardly one word against RvP or Vermaelen for any ‘errors’ THEY may or may not have made in the game. The winning Manc goal, from what I’ve since read, (and contrary to what I saw a few feet in front of me at the time) was apparently 100% the fault of one man – a plucky little Russian attempting to track back and help his team mates out.

    Not the five other players behind him …

    The pack may never give up – not unless confronted by those wiser and more loyal than them. Eventually the RvPs and the Vermaelen’s of the squad will hit a poor patch or get injured and become the hunted. Kos was a former target. Diaby is another currently favoured target.

    The wave of negativity is utterly indiscriminate and knows few bounds as the mindset of those drawn into its orbit is polluted by the foul odour. Frankly, outer space is too good for some of them … a sewage farm would no doubt turn up its nose.

    But it IS immensely destructive. Just what was Arshavin supposed to think? Suspect the Manure fans could hardly believe their ears. I cringed as I imagined what was being broadcast out across the football world. How our enemies must be rubbing their hands with unexpected glee. Our own supporters joining in the attack. How encouraged must the Manure players have felt? Their own 12th man being provided from the most unlikely of sources.

    Like most people I was puzzled by THAT substitution – but not by the swap itself, more the timing of it, coming so soon after the crowd was lifted by a superb equaliser. But had the Ox played on and gone down with a dodgy hamstring or whatever in the 85th minute we’d have never heard the last of it. I suspect we have yet to hear the last of the injury to Santos who hurt himself playing in that apparently ‘unnecessary’ match.

    So yes, I was gutted by the result. Beaten by a better team, sure. And even Mike Dean had a halfway decent game. And yes, too, I was puzzled by the timing of the substitution of the Ox.

    But I remain utterly shamed and embarrassed by segments of our supporters sitting in The Boo Quarter.

    With five minutes remaining, I estimate at least 5,000 were already leaving the ground.

    Unbelievable.

    I hope they are feeling proud of themselves today.

    Because they clearly have no pride in the club.

    And I hope they don’t show their faces again and that they simply hand their tickets to those supporters who actually want to be there.

    Because they clearly don’t.

    They certainly don’t deserve to be.

    We WILL come back in future games and we WILL finish fourth or better. There are so many positives – already well listed on this blog today.

    But part of the Emirates blotted their copy book yesterday towards the end of a game I’d sooner forget, if I’m honest.

    Their very own day of shame.

    And THAT will take some forgetting.

  210. LoveTheWayYouPlay

    cesc_ara thank you for understanding Arsenal and thank you for being on this blog. Although Arsene is strong, I wish he could hear your comments. When you are fighting inch by inch for what you believe in with a greedy, ungrateful, ignorant world constantly trying to pull you down, a pat on the back goes a long way.

  211. Cesc – you’ve missed my point somewhat but it’s not really worth further explanation – there are bigger things to tackle.

    Evil – you do talk sense but if I may be permitted to amend one small part of your last post –

    “Not every manage however can do what Wenger has done”

    Should read

    “NO manager however, could do what Wenger has done”.

  212. Looking at Yennaris’ performance maybe it was a mistake buying Jenkinson.

  213. NO manager however, could do what Wenger has done

    I would amend it a little further.

    “Any manager who could do what Wenger has done would have fucked off to a sugar daddy club at first chance.

  214. Jabba.
    arsenalandrew | January 23, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Now that’s what I call a supporter.

  215. Looking at Yennaris’ performance maybe it was a mistake buying Jenkinson.

    Most unlike you KG
    Jenks will be huge for us.

  216. Looking at Yennaris’ performance maybe it was a mistake buying Jenkinson.

    I am not sure Yennaris is a full back. Like Coquelin or Flamini before he is filling in at right back in an emergency situation.

  217. Now that gives me a new train of thought. Seeing as Flaimini, Coquelin and now Yennaris have all been more comfortable filling in at full back than the central defenders who have filled in there, may be it is a better idea to have midfielders or wingers with defensive ability play at full back in the absence of regular ones?

  218. All those getting excited about Yennaris would do well to dial it back a bit – we have all seen players come in and perform for a game or two who are never seen again. He had a decent 45 against very tricky opposition but that’s about as much as we know.
    I watched him first-hand at the CC games and he was reasonable at best. He has a way to go yet…

  219. George

    What do you do for your club…………….you blog, what else, how much of your hard earned goes into the club. I notice you were always asking for streams of our pre season games, couldnt afford the 1.50 on atv or just to fucking lazy.

    Jabba you really are the most ill informed person I have ever come across.
    Just about everyone here knows I subscribe to ATVO.Ask Tom Watt about me you halfwit moaning piece of shit.

  220. Rosicky is aptly effectual than ramsey. So why does AW obsess with having Ramsey in that spot, yesterday’s game in the second half showed this blatantly.
    Theo isn’t half of Ox but AW picks the former over the latter. End results skewed passes, blind passes, neglect of defensive cover for fullbacks, glorious misses in-front of goal.
    Song plays dismally at present coz there is nobody in DM to complement his game. With exception of Arteta he has virtually played every game this season. He being every bit human is bound to tire and drop in his level of play, but AW being true to his self will run him to the ground then lament a demise self inflicted.

  221. Fair result given the way the game played out. We were really poor in the first 1/2. The whole world knew that they were going to attack from the wings and we were not able to do anything to counter their strength. Mert was immense in the first half cleaning up everything that got past our right sided defense. Disappointed that we lost that header at the far post that gave them the first goal. Had we marked Valencia on that play the game could have been different. Arshavin is being made a scapegoat for their 2nd goal but since when is he the last line of defense on the left. None of our forwards had a realistic chance of stopping Valencia when he was coming a full speed, what happened to TV and Kos or Song on that play?

    The bottom line is irregardless of injuries we were beaten by a better team yesterday. They have more options, more tactical flexibility and tactical nous and they defend better over the course of 90 minutes. The first time we played them they attacked more from the middle with Rooney cutting us up this time they used their wingers. We on the other hand continue to struggle to score, I think this is the 14th time in the last 18 games at home that we have scored 1 goal or fewer and we have conceded 7 goals in the last 3 games and neither is going to get the job done.

    All that said yesterday was not really a critical game for us. Getting a result against United was always going to be tough. The critical games were the 2 before it ,and dropping all 6 points in those game was unacceptable. We can’t afford to have let down games after midweek CL games, and we have to win the games we are supposed to win. Chelsea, Liverpool and Newcastle are going to drop points but we have to play like they are not.

  222. Koscielny was a beast yesterday. When the full Sagna and Santos recover the SKTS defence will be the most entertaining in the world.

  223. Koscielny was a beast yesterday. When Sagna and Santos recover the SKTS defence will be the most entertaining in the world.

  224. love the way you play …heheh thank you mate ..

    the way i see it ..fans are there to provide shield of protection ,,,especially to the manager who is responsible for all that you see in modern arsenal.

  225. Jabba's Delights

    Evil

    Once agin your looking at the past.

    In reality though mate we’ve done whats been expected of us. Especially so since 2008.

    Our manager isnt paid the kind of money to he is to do whats expected. When have we since 2008 significantly overachieved??

    We were in a wonderful potion this summer to really move on as a club and yet we completly and utterly shanked it.

    I thought the lack of lanning for the cesc and Nasri departures was utterly amazing. How on earth did wenger not see cesc leaving do you honestly heart of hearts believe cesc was lying to wenger day in day out? What about Nasri, nasri walked right hrough wenger aug deadline without us doing a thing. What happened for the 3 weeks after their departures why was nothign done why was there no plan in place??

    Why cant the defence get even remotely better. I sat an watched some american football last night between the 49ers and Giants where a saw a team with incredibly average 17th ranked defence one year become the 4th in a sport thats much more techical and far harder to just bring in the righ players. What changed……a a coach with an ethos.

    Bollocks to us continuing making the same mistakes and bollocks to my club sinking without somebody making some noise. Huge amounts of season tickets havent been picked up this year without the home support the club dies…………….it needs to do much much more to sort things out otherwise we will rely on the george’s of this world deciding to maybe pay there 1.50 for pre seaosn games as a revenue stream.

  226. Give me Suga and Jabba over Acryllic Altair anyday. The guy is a glory hunter through and through. The annoying thing is that he tries to snake through as if he is really genuine.

    To say that players should just be able to play above boo’s is stupid. Sure, when the opposition is booing you but when the people who are supposed to be in your corner do it, it is a different story.

    I agree with Cesc_arca, the support turned the tide against Arsenal with their foolishness.

  227. Yeah, nice post arsenalandrew.

    Our second half performance was worthy of at least a draw.

    At 1-0 down, the boss was preparing to bring on Benayoun and AA. They both dissapeared when we scored and he waited a little longer. I am only speculating, but perhaps he saw how tired the Ox was and, so had to take off. He replaced him with an experienced international, capable of winning a game single handedly on his day, so I don’t see what all the fuss was about really.

    Have those ticket holders who boo’ed forgotten what the Eboue incident did to our clubs reputation? Do they care? Probably not.

  228. another positive i take from yesterday and dont hope he plays in our upcoming fixtures is Park was lively and if given a run or maybe even the run the Chamakh gets he might turn out to be the back up striker we need. One has to wonder, if AA is playing out of position is it due to him not being able to displace Rosicky, Ramsey Jack and Wilshire in the center of the park thus forcing AW’s loyal hand to finding mins for him playing outwide. Also I have wondered if a major part of your job description is winning titles then is it wrong for peopl;e to question the manager and the club for going on a 6 year drought?

    If we have all conceded that finishing 3rd/4th in teh EPL is what we are realistically shooting for then should we not wish that AW would treat the FA cup as somehting major this year along with the CL? I do hope that we sign an attacking player but I am also realistic to the fact that AW deems our squad strong enough even though both doomers and gloomers see otherwise. So I then raise the question (very realistic mite i say due to our injury history) what if we have a set back for any of the major players that should be coming back that many of us champion as “new signings” when they do?

    Finally while it is a very real possablity due to his current form and him being in his prime, does AW and the board have a backup plan in place should we miss out on CL football and RVP decide that (like every other world class player) CL football is not only important to him but vital to his footballing existence and leaves. While i support and defend our club to the bitter end, we all felt this way this summer when it came to Cesc and then when Nasri left but do they have a player that they can bring in to score goals at such a rate because we have a hard enough time scoring when RVP is in the lineup and can only imagine what it would be like without him. I still feel as though we will finish in 4th atleast and should AW treat the FA cup as though he cares then we can realistically win that and then win our CL draw against Milan and we can easily be into the final. Heres to Arsenal and the fighting spirit that I know each and every player will show for the rest of teh season!!!!!!!!!!!

  229. Tedious…but still. Supporting a football club is only about being at one extreme. if you find yourself at the other extreme or even in the middle you are probably not a supporter.

  230. Jabba's Delights

    Jonny

    I dont go on le grove as dislike the way they speak about our playesr and constantly swear about the manager.

    On here you cant even have debate wbout it though. Thats where the annoyance by allot of incredibly loyal and passionate gooners. Its not the actually necasarilly wanting our greatest ever manger sacked its the why isnt it even a possibility if our awful declining form continues. This is flash in the pan there is a reason why some of us have been saying very simialr things for years. Why are they even remotely talking about new contracts and stuff when we seem incapable of gettign better under his watch these days.

    This summer there should be a huge internal investiagtion as to what happened in the summer as it was nothign short of a disgrace. at any other club you would have been laughing at the manager and front office for their summer, remember the summer beofre that as well, chamack and Kosciellny to a team that finnshed 11 points off top.

  231. Frank

    Whilst that applies in the stadium, it has no relevance outside.

  232. Jabba

    I dont go on le grove as dislike the way they speak about our playesr and constantly swear about the manager.

    On here you cant even have debate wbout it though.

    Then what are you doing now? Sounds like debatng to me…

  233. Paul:

    Booing your own team is completely unacceptable no matter what the situation. However, the support did not leave Valencia unmarked on the far post or let him waltz thru our penalty box to create the 2nd goal. With their makeshift defense and us having RVP we were likely to score but scoring more then 1 was going to be a huge ask. We can’t afford to keep conceding goals the way we have been.

  234. Doesn’t AW ever contemplate of an era in the season that players pick injuries. Coz this we have to wait for them to come back attitude is not a trophy chasing one at the very least.
    Because we’ve been perpetually fed fourth spot as title credentials, its attainment is in critical jeopardy I wonder what diminished ambition AW is cooking to ram down our throats.

  235. We were in a wonderful potion this summer to really move on as a club and yet we completly and utterly shanked it.

    lol come again …… what was exactly this wonderful position you talk about that would launch us into stratospheric levels ? move on to what? prior to this summer you were still a club repaying yoru invesntment, this hasnt changed. that is still the case. repaying the stadium. that cesc and nasri were sacrifised for that…well tough sh*t..players come and go plus we have the number one manager to identify and develop new cescs…

    what did you have in mind for the summer then? a rise to the summit of european football? the beggining of arsenal;s dominance domestically ?

  236. Don’t see the big deal in the Ox being subbed. The Ox is with us for the long haul, not just to beat manutd on the 22nd of January 2011. He is still being nurtured and Wenger and co had probably decided he’d play x minutes. The Ox isn’t a teenager with a man’s body like Rooney was.

  237. Bill, thanks for stating the obvious.

    I am sure that the team was not filled with confidence while the clowns were booing and since sports is part confidence, you want to do all you can to encourage your own team.

    The problem was more with missing clear chances than conceding. That’s the easy way out for you.

  238. I said it yesterday, perhaps it is not the worst thing in the world should we miss the CL place. There is sense of “we have the quality” not matter what happens and yet time and time again we do find ourselves wanting. I don’t think we can do better than Arsene but just maybe he’ll look back at this season and wonder whether all his thinking is as straight forward as he believes. There are souls in this team that just do not have the quality to add strength in depth. We can all surely agree that there has been some under investment based upon the market prices for players. Am I the only one that seems to think we are priced out of almost every player we are linked with, because we like to haggle to the last pound?

    Look I like the Arsenal model of self sufficiency but our manager should not be more concerned with playing a profit every year than winning silverware. The running of Arsenal as a business entity should be the preserve of the board and their money men, not Arsene.

  239. Another interesting stat from yesterday was the 14 plus attempts but just 3 on target, compared to 9 attempts and 6 on target. It has a been a blight all season.

  240. Look I like the Arsenal model of self sufficiency but our manager should not be more concerned with playing a profit every year than winning silverware. The running of Arsenal as a business entity should be the preserve of the board and their money men, not Arsene.

    So what do you suggest the manager to do? Finance transfers and wages from his own pocket?

  241. In total frankness this malaise/syndrome/ behaviour/… takes place at about this time every season. Usually RVP is injured at about now, for which we now have our fingers crossed till say april, Diaby the veteran at injuries, Cesc two seasons back, nasri last season …
    So how is it that AW can fail to read between such pragmatic hiccup to the clubs cup pursuit and bolster the squad with two at par effective players in each spot.

  242. And also Acrylic said that Arshavin didn’t have a good season last year. I would like to remind him of one of the greatest win’s in Arsenal history. Last season, that is. Arshavin came off of the bench to score the match winner. So even when he isn’t “playing well”, he is capable of magic.

  243. Excellent post Andrew.

    Would have written that myself a couple of years ago- or something like it.

    Too lazy now.

    Minimal words.

    That’s the thing though. This debate is a long standing one which boils down to one thing.

    Do you support the club or don’t you?

    You see I don’t care if others want to argue about trophies or signings or tactics.

    I have only ever had an interest in watching Arsenal play.

    Arsenal play, I support.

  244. As for the booing yesterday, the timeline is as follows:

    substitution announced — crowd boos, shows it thinks the substitution was wrong
    Ox goes off — crowd cheers
    AA comes on — booing resumes.

    Now I feel that the last booing … you can say all you want that it was directed at Arsene etc. but that it resumed the moment AA came on the pitch, I think that sends a clear signal to the player. I don’t think the player is going to contemplate at who it was directed when it started the moment he came on. And that is just disgraceful. Never, ever should one of our players be booed on the pitch. Never.

  245. Frank, fair enough but then by your incredibly thin terms there are only about 5 posters regularly on here who you would even consider fans.

  246. Miami, don’t be ridiculous. So should we try to win trophies at the expense of the long term stability of the team. And how do you know what Arsene is doing? Did he call and tell you?

  247. The booing was ridiculous yesterday, but football is an emotional game and some people will react in this manner. That’s football and it happens at plenty of other clubs in England and around the world.
    Yes, Wenger made a bizzare decision, but he was honest enough to say that there was a “tactical mistake” and I respect him for that.
    It was a disappointing result especially as Man Utd were weakened by injuries also, but we are not really competing with the first and second and third placed teams in the league any more. We can give them a game, but our options, particularly in terms of goal scorers are vastly inferior. We can’t compete with these teams with only one decent striker and no regular goal scorer in midfield. I shudder to think how we would cope without RVP for any period of time.
    That said, I wouldn’t write us off finishing fourth, a lot depends on how Torres’s form goes. If he starts finding form we could be in trouble.

  248. Keysersoze, firstly I apologie for the “playing” when it should in fact have read “making”… no coffee yet is to balme I guess.

    No, my point is Arsene has said before he see’s it as a slight on him if the club does not make a profit each year. I believe that this should not be his concern, winning trophies is what he is employed to acheived.

    I am not sure where you got the idea I was implying he finance transfers?

  249. “You see I don’t care if others want to argue about trophies or signings or tactics.

    I have only ever had an interest in watching Arsenal play.

    Arsenal play, I support.”

    Brilliant Mr. Bob!

  250. Miami

    You said that the manager should concentrate on winning trophies while the board concentrates on making a profit. I don’t know how these can go hand in hand unless the manager has to pay from his pocket. Or are you saying that the owner isn’t interested in making profits at all? That is an emphatic suggestion, can you back it up?

  251. Jabba's Delights

    Cesc

    Everyone at our club has stated the debt is incredibly manageable. Its not a massive burden on the club its at a fixed rate over 25 years.

    Our strong postion last summer was that we had a good team with some youth that could get better and some very decent wedge for us. The best way of convincing cesc to stay for one more year was by showing him we trully wanted to win things, not demanded…..wanted. As it was we went and got Gervinho. Good player that i think he is its not enouogh when your a team who fininshed 12 points off top. The previous year Cesc saw Chamack and Ksciellny come in.

    RVP, will leave this summer for the same reasons. The players want to see some ambition form the club. Paying off the debt at record pace isnt the greatest idea if its very very manageable. we need more balance.

    The manager had an applaing summer when he really coulsnt afford to have one. His performance som far this seaonson hasnt made anyone think that his powers arent diminishing. Lest stop living in the past.

    The fact is that since feb last year we’ve been very very poor and the buck stops with the manager.

  252. Arsene has said he made a mistake because the team did not win. He is not saying he made a mistake to make the sub as far as I can read.

    theBigM, don’t try to minimize the booing, there was no need for it.

  253. ph : ” So whats the number then?”

    ig : ‘ i dont know sir , you see we didnt get much this year”

    ph ” that cunt vengah, its his fault. he insisted on that pitch being a carpet …did he have nay idea how that cost ? that french tw@t…. 5,000 pounds per square meter? christs thats more than what versace charges for its golden kitchen tiles. disgrace”

    aw ” i heard you old cuntz…shudup if it wasnt for me youd still be in that cowfield”

    ph ” whats wrong with cowfields heh! weve won in cowfields many titles ..way before you came ..you fkn french faggot”

    aw ” oh yes indeed thats why in 40 years you only had a double to show for it ..muahaha. i found you here with bangers and mash and showed you the way of chaviar and fillet shut up and go grow your tomatoes”

    ig : ” i believe we can work something out gentlemen”

    ph “liek what you ficking cretin, weve got 60,000 wankers grilling us for ticket prices and they want the title. they are after us…Arsene listen up you git …we want the title …got it?”

    aw ” no problem.. how much will you give me ?”

    ph ” hey ivan how much is left?”

    i.g ” about 36 pounds and 47 pence”

    aw ” oh mon dieu i cant buy sh*t with that”

    ph ” i dotn give a sh*t mate..you told us to move our asses here and you promised thngs would be ok , look at us now. its your fault”

    hahahahahahaha

  254. I have only ever had an interest in watching Arsenal play.

    Arsenal play, I support.

    words with biblical importance !!!

    arsenal pl;ays…i suppoprt…so subtle so correct…like a true spartan !

  255. Jonny, 5?!?!? Didn’t realise it was that high!

  256. I’m with Cbob: ‘Arsenal play, I support’.

    I thoroughly enjoyed our football in the second half. Losing pretty much ruined what was a lovely week-end, but I enjoyed the football we played none the less.

  257. Keyseroze, “Or are you saying that the owner isn’t interested in making profits at all? That is an emphatic suggestion, can you back it up?”. Clearly the owner does want to make a profit because as a club we take more pride in making a dividend for the shareholders every year than winning silverware. If you need evidence of that fact look at our accounts and smile but you are obviously delighted with average pitch performance and in the black finances.

    Clearly if we are all so happy basking in the sun of profit making then why care about what happens on the field at all?

  258. @JD
    “The previous year Cesc saw Chamack and Ksciellny come in.” Can you clarify that statement? What exactly do you mean by that?

  259. Jabba, you miss the point as supporters we have to be more delighted with our financial position than on the field performances. We’ll probably make the biggest profit for the season, cannot wait to put that trophy in the cabinet.

  260. Miami

    Clearly the owner does want to make a profit because as a club we take more pride in making a dividend for the shareholders every year than winning silverware. If you need evidence of that fact look at our accounts and smile but you are obviously delighted with average pitch performance and in the black finances.

    Clearly if we are all so happy basking in the sun of profit making then why care about what happens on the field at all?

    very impressive but for the fact that you have completely veered away from my original question and gone of a on a tangent putting words in my mouth that I didn’t write.

  261. @Miami
    Since when do we pay out dividends?

  262. Paul @ 2:57:

    I don’t know if we miss more easy chances then other teams. I dont watch other teams as much as i do arsenal. I do watch enough games to know that every team misses good chances and just about every losing manager thats interviewed complains that his team could have gotten a result if only they had taken their chances. ACLF regulars have been complaining about our poor aim in front of goal for the last 3 seasons so I suspect that missing good chances is not going to end any time soon. We have struggled to score for more then a year and it started long before of fullbacks went down. Its hard to imagine even someone as great as RVP continuing this run of form and I haven’t seen any evidence that others are going to step up.

    Our defense compensated for a while and we had a good run but regaining the defensive solidarity we had while we moved up the table will be critical thing if we want to save 4th place. That’s my point in that post.

  263. We’ll probably make the biggest profit for the season, cannot wait to put that trophy in the cabinet.

    That is so 2009. Come up with a new line to at gain a bit of temporary credibility before you are ignored.

  264. Ha! YW, I was just thinking afterwards I might have dramatically overestimated!

    Maybe 4 including his good self then! 🙂

  265. Aston Villa supporters whilst having to put up with their most hated opponent as manager have managed to cajole someone in their club into looking at standing areas for fans to go to. You know, hang out with their mates, Blatter’s bladder forbid, have some kind of fun. That kind of thing.

    The AST are interested in telling people like Kronke how to spend their money. Attacking their manager at every transparent opportunity. Good luck with that.
    No one is excusing Arshavin, (I’m not interested in blaming him either) but Mertesacker clears a shot off the goal line, yet I’m asked to accept that this one single decision cost Arsenal that particular game. Really? These idiots will snort up all the talkshite fodder, and then vomit it straight back out.

    Delusional.

  266. @Bill
    I think the problem is that we create more chances than virtually all opposition that plays and we take like 5 chances to score while they usually score with their first shot on goal.

  267. No it is 5, because I am absolutely sure that you haven’t counted me.

  268. YW, thanks for the post btw.

  269. You can rely on this place to cheer you up after disappointing defeats –

    Jonny at 2PM – couldn’t agree more.

    ArsenalAndrew – 2.01 – great post.

    Bob – Arsenal play, I support – minimal words, maximum meaning.

    The post wasn’t too shabby either YW.

    And making Sessegnon my captain this week wasn’t a bad shout either, I always liked the look of him since I saw him play for PSG in the Emirates Cup.

    3rd and closing in on 2nd in the ACLF Fantasy league Chaps – how are you all doing?

    Maybe I should send my CV to Ivan for when the day comes – apparently I am as well qualified as most of the Blogosphere.

  270. “Arsenal play, I support.”
    “consolsbob speaks,I listen” learned and understood.

  271. The single most encouraging thing for me yesterday is that our pace seemed to have returned in the second half. In the past few games we had reverted to the slow build up play of last year which allowed the opposition to close ranks in defence and plug spaces. May be it was AOC and Walcott playing, may be it was having a full back willing to overlap, but I liked that yesterday.

  272. Jabba's Delights

    Evil

    We finished 11 points off our rivals 2009-10.

    Our defence had conceded 41 goals our manager had said that thats far to many we also haddnt replaced Adebayor and were about to sell eduardo.

    So as a club to try amke up an 11 point deficit we brought in Chamack on a free who has never been a gola scocrer and a very much unproven cb who our own manager would take allot of adapting.

    What did we get?

    We got a non goal scorer who is completely unsuited to our game…..shhhhhh dont tell anyone but he thrived off good aerial service in fact a couple of stupid fuckign french idiot commentators questioned arsene logic as arsenal didnt have one good crosser or one consistent dead ball player………………………..80% of his goals come from headers.

    Kosciellny like any unproven player to a season bed in when at the time we needed someone to step up immediately. As it was he looked exceptional at times and utterly out of his depth at times. This year bar him getting lost playing the offside trap at times (which gooner defender doesnt) he is a titan. We needed a player last eyar who could play at that level in fact 2.

    How do you think Cesc felt? How do you think RVP feels right now. Do you think he looks at the club and says, yes im goign to sign my last major contract with them becuase they most certainly do all they can to be succesful….? t

  273. From today’s ‘Mediawatch’

    …here’s how Cross reported Oxlade-Chamberlain’s signing back in August: ‘Arsene Wenger finally got Arsenal’s chequebook out on Monday – but left some Gunners fans raging over who he hasn’t signed. Wenger tied up a £15million deal for talented Southampton teenager Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. But fed-up Arsenal supporters want to know why he is prepared to spend big on a rookie but not on proven Premier League players.’

    So basically, Wenger shouldn’t have signed Oxlade-Chamberlain but now he’s been proved correct and the lad has turned out to be quite handy, the knives are out after he took the rather ballsy decision to start the youngster in one of the biggest games of the season but took him off when the 18-year-old was cramping up.

    Good. Glad that’s clear.

    Incidentally, Mediawatch can’t have been the only one to chuckle at the fans who were screaming “Spend some f**king money” at Wenger.

    Andrey Arshavin – the man whose spirits they were trying to pep up by booing his arrival – cost £15million. And the chap who went off cost another £15million.

  274. And making Sessegnon my captain this week wasn’t a bad shout either, I always liked the look of him since I saw him play for PSG in the Emirates Cup.

    3rd and closing in on 2nd in the ACLF Fantasy league Chaps – how are you all doing?

    Maybe I should send my CV to Ivan for when the day comes – apparently I am as well qualified as most of the Blogosphere.

    If only goals scored by the captain counted as double we would have probably led the table by now!

  275. Bill, what you do all the time is focus on one area, in doing so you lay blame in the one area.

    Did we spurn easy chances, yes or no?

    I am all for defence and know that we have always focused on that, regardless of what people may think. However, No matter what, at the end of the day the most important stat is to out score your opponent.

    How many times have we been beaten 1-0 when we have created plenty of chances?

  276. With that, I am not trying to lay blame, I am simply saying that winning is a team effort.

  277. Jabba's Delights

    Paul N

    A very interesting point.

    How many times has it been brought to peoples attention on here that Arsenal actually dont score many goals considering the amount of players we commit to going forward. How many times has it been stated to you that Utd have outscored us 6 years running and are way out in fornt this year.

    Its not new to arsenal fans that scoring has been a major problem for us for a few years.

    Who immplements the strategy???

  278. Very true Keyser – now if I had the time I may be tempted to go through every result this season and see what difference it would of made.

    Although to be fair, I may of pushed Man City and Newcastle up the table by having Aguero and Ba as my Captain’s on regular occasions.

    Either way – I am clearly a football manager of the highest quality, so should be working in the Prem really.

  279. When I look at the clubs in the EPL, it sadens me to say that our ticket holders are second worse only to Blackburn’s.

    Sure, we pay a lot for our tickets, but we are based in one of the richest cities in the world! None of us are short of a few bob are we? If the club have made money, its largely been down to Arsene signing talent and Man City paying silly amounts of money for our players.

    Investment in the club has been about right in my opinion. You can’t buy confidence, as that largely comes from within…

  280. Matt ,there might be a vacancy at Spurs shortly

  281. Evil @ 3:30.

    Why??? You and everyone else on this blog have been making that same observation for more then 2 – 3 years now. If its really true then we need to get new players who can shoot or there is something about the “chances” we create that makes them more difficult to finish. Myself I can’t believe our players are just bad shooters, that makes no sense. I think it has to be something with our tactics and the type of chances we create. RVPs miss yesterday can be ignored as an aberration but the rest were not easy finishes. I don’t know the answer any more then you but it’s clear that something has to change if we are ever going to get over the hump.

  282. 1st half slow passing and losing the ball and us having poor form. 2nd half quick passing playing balls into space and letting our pacey wingers (AOC and Walcott(yes put the ball into space and let him out pace everybody is his game)) and having Rosicky sit a little higher than Ramsey allowing him to play the quick 1-2’s and lightning quick counters is how we got back into the game and the way we should continue to play.

    I believe that AW should consider allowing Rosicky to play higher up the pitch then Ramsey when they play together because Rosicky thrives on quick passing and playing balls into space and allowing our wingers to out pace (which they can do to just about every FB is the EPL), while Ramsey has a knack for holding and slowing our play up with him needing 4-8 touches on the ball to make a decision. I am not criticizing just making an observation that might allow us to play quicker.

  283. Frank @ 01:01

    I’ll take that from whence it comes.

  284. George,

    Good point.

    Although they are the bestest team EVER, so not sure how I could improve them.

    Although I would have to make the Chimp stop doing that silly heart goal celebration.

  285. £150 million and the chimp could be ours.
    Bargain if you ask me.
    Its the sort of transfer we should be looking at.Make a statement Arsene.

  286. Please no, not the chimp. I’d have to respect him if we moves to us!

  287. Will `Arry Redflaps have to do porridge if he`s (found) guilty ?

  288. No one who does that goal celebration would be welcome with me.

  289. The booing was wrong, but at the moment it was right. It never happens and that is why AW knew it was a big mistake to take off the Ox and put on a ‘looks like a has been’. Look at vPs reaction. The game was too finely balanced and we had begun to get the upper hand in a tough match.

    AW loves his 70th minute subs, but glad he has put his hand up on this one.

  290. Haha just heard Harry Redknapp’s dog is rolling in the dough?

  291. Don’t mean to brag, but my Super T-Rex Gigolos are flying at the moment.

    …actually, I do mean to brag!

  292. I wonder if he will twitch more or less as ‘The Daddy’ of the wing welcomes him in the showers?

  293. I am gladly in 93rd place!

  294. To what or whom are you referring when you speak of whence, MikeSA?

    5 sounds about right

    Well said, Bob. Excellent

  295. OOU – Didn’t realise that was you up there….

    Your 71 point lead over me is looking pretty substantial at the moment, I have to say…. although I won’t give up just yet.

    Well played so far though.

    2nd is within my sights though, so you never know!

  296. That Jabba has been absent from this blog ever since we went on a winning run after the debacle at the beginning of the season, only to appear like a mushroom sprouted from shit all of a sudden, should tell you all you need to know about him.

    Go crawl back under the rock you were living until yesterday, you fat tub of shit.

    I still maintain that the booing was aimed at Nani and the ref for wasting three full minutes just after we scored. In fact, the grumbling when the five minutes of stoppage time, when it should have been at least seven, were announced should prove this.

    Possitives from the game:

    We looked well up for this game in the second half. Seeing how well we played after Yennaris, the only player in the backline resembling a proper full back, was introduced, fills me with optimism for when Sagna and Gibbs get back. We’ve got the x factor and I feel we can beat anyone on our day. When our injured get back we’ll be an awesome force.

    Alex Oxlade Chamberlain. He’s a neat, little player who looked nonplussed about making his debut against a team like United. I really, really like the way he plays. The way he took that pass from Rosicky, turned out Rafael and made that pass to Van Persie was incredible.

    Our centre backs, goalkeeper and Alex Song. Our spine was solid. United created fuck all in the centre of the park thanks in no small part to Per, Koscielny and Alex. Rooney was the quietest I’ve seen him all season. Szczesny is an animal. His kicking and distribution have improved dramatically. I also don’t get the shakes anymore when we concede a corner thanks to him.

    Aaron Ramsey and Rosicky. Once we plugged up our right fullback situation and didn’t have to overcompensate for that weakness, they took control of the midfield. We had United well and truly on the ropes for most of the second half. Say what you will about Aaron, but the boy is solid. He could release the ball a bit quicker, in order to take advantage of our speed, but at 20 I’d say he’s one of the best attacking midfielders in the league. Rosicky is a warrior. His tackling and dribbling are amazing. I absolutely loved how he played yesterday. I hope Wenger keeps him until he can no longer run.

  297. “The booing was wrong, but at the moment it was right”

    that cannot make sense.

  298. George, re: your bike analogy

    If you put £5 a month away for four year to save up for a bike and you sold your best roller blades, skatebaord and Sinclair C5 to increase your kitty, you’d be disappointed and confused when you went down the second hand shop to purchase a bike and paints to design and do up yourself no?

  299. Remember when Oxo scores the winning goals in the next few games that he would not have been there if he had not been substituted yesterday.

    As for Robin’s reaction, I am inclined to agree that he was incredulous that the crowd had gone from cheering to booing within seconds.

    Incidentally the gamesmanship displayed by the big mancs in the latter part of the game was something to behold. They were terrified of Arsenal playing.

    We are not far away now. Try not to panic some of you. Keep your composure. Try not to expose yourselves. You come across as ninnies and that is not becoming of Arsenal supporters.

  300. Gains

    From my seat in the stadium, I can tell you that you are wrong re: the boo’ing

    As for your positives, Kos + Oxo were immense.

    Song was having another off day, how many times does he want to cede possession in dangerous areas. Ramsey looked shattered, and Rosicky, well, for our senior midfielder I would have expected to him to find the ball more, but he hid.

    We need Jack back asap

  301. 6 with Gainsbourg69. A pack of Gitanes to you, old boy.

  302. Can you guys stop responding to Jabba? If you ignore him he will go away faster than if we were to go on a winning run. Thank you.

  303. Yeah, it’s my Japanese pseudonym, Matt – don’t ask why I need one. Figured that was you charging up the table.

    Me and the lads are just enjoying the ride, taking each game as it comes. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. I tell them to got out there and enjoy themselves, and see where we end up come May. Can’t ask much more than that.

  304. A BBC reporter has confirmed the AOC asked to come off.
    We have been told he asked to come off.
    Yet still people would rather blame Arsene.That tell you a lot about those people

    PS for “people” substitute “dickheads”

  305. @Luke
    In what sense did Rosicky hide? I saw him on the ball all the time, either chasing other players and getting possession back or distributing the ball well to the flanks.

  306. Yep I agree with Luke. The booing should have been at Nani and the big mancs time wasting, but the crowd were too busy fucking up the morale of our players. Worst supporters in the EPL and a bit stupid.

  307. Sorry 7 with George

  308. Has Arry gone down yet?

  309. I decided to Sub Ba for Sturridge the other week OOU – I got Booed for it as I made the change.

    I will stick to my belief’s though.

    From my seat the booing didn’t look or sound great Luke.

    As I said earlier – even more amazingly – some guy I confronted about booing took exception and got a steward involved, who was going to eject me for threatening behaviour (for telling him to shut up and stop being a retard – word could of been chosen better I suppose!) until quite a few people stuck up for me.

  310. George – I see the media is your friend now it supports your agenda? Interesting

    Evil – we were dominated by a midfield pairing of Giggs/Carrick

    Rosicky was very lively in the 15 minutes of the second half we dominated, but I say he was hiding as a direct result of the amount of aimless long balls we were thumping up the park.

    If we had Cesc / Wilshere, heck even Nasri, these players would have been making themselves available to keep possession and countrol the transition from defence to attack.

    Thats one of the major aspects of our game that has been missing during the excellent Arteta’s absence.

  311. Don’t drop the soap twitchy.

  312. Yes Luke,but it was as it was.I was upset because I did not know enough to realise how lucky I was and how hard my Dad had tried.

  313. Andy, reading to tweets from BBC he is as guilty as hell. Called the offshore Monaco account “Rosie 47” which happens to be the name of his dog. Interesting to see what action if any the FA will take if he is found guilty.

  314. Apologies if this has been already posted here, but I just came across :

    Eden Hazard: “With all respect to Chelsea, I’d rather join a club with history such as Liverpool or Arsenal.”

  315. .Harry Redknapp… is the most successful English manager in the modern game, having led Portsmouth to FA Cup success and Spurs to last season’s Uefa Champions League quarter-finals.Good lord!

  316. @Luke
    But he was available most of the time, it was just that our defense/midfield didn’t take the time to look up. The one time that our defense found him, we had a quick counter attack on and scored. He was more or less involved in about all our major chances, so saying he hid is a tad unfair in my opinion.

  317. Thats ridiculous Matt, the stewards at Arsenal are like Nazis.

    The boo’ing was horrific in my section, lower North Bank.

    What gets me most, which I put in post earlier, isnt the boo’ing (that by default makes the guilty parties c**ts), what I get so wound up about is those that dont make a noise, then groan and moan when a pass is misplaced.

  318. You are a star, Matt

  319. Gutted we lost, but the fact that we made a real game of it in the second and took it to United with the following players injured/unavailable:

    Sagna
    Jenkinson
    Santos
    Gibbs
    Arteta
    Wilshire
    Diaby
    Henry
    Frimpong
    Gervinho
    Chamakh
    Coquelin

    I think really speaks to our strength in depth. Can’t wait for our fullbacks to return.

  320. I don’t know, Luke. The grumbling started when Nani went down as if he were shot after a rather inocuous challenge from Koscielny. It began getting louder as he sat in the centre line for a whole three minutes. Then it went full blast as he was helped off and we were making our substitutions.

    Frank, where have you been? I missed your witty remarks. We’ve had to deal with fence sitters like Jonny and Andy all alone.

  321. Evil, I was still disappointed with Rosickys contribution over the 90 minutes, the ball to OX was sublime, and he had some great surging runs, but I expected him to really control the game, esp against Giggs + Carrick.

    its just hard seeing an Arsenal side struggle to maintain fluid passing possesion at present, considering the joy that febregas et al brought us.

    .

  322. And regarding the booing, I’m Canadian and have not yet been blessed with an opportunity to see the glorious Arsenal in the flesh, but I promise that when I do I will be shouting my praise and support for the team from the first whistle to the last, regardless of what happens in between. Up the Arsenal!!!

  323. Good point about Szczesny`s kicking & distribution Gains. It was a weakness last season , but not any more.

    On booing – I just don`t understand it. The last time I booed anyone was Ian Botham & Max Boyce in panto & believe me they f*cking deserved it.

  324. @Luke
    I am not sure, maybe Rosicky is just past taking games by the scruff of the neck. I still think that he has to be played at the top of our midfield trio so we can make the most of him. He was better when he was playing ahead of Aaron.
    But on the other hand we have played better midfield players and at the same time got dominated by worse ManU teams. FA Cup last year springs to mind. So maybe it’s just that Fergie works some Voodoo magic before games.

  325. Not at all Frank, I get depressed as many after a disappointing defeat and may vent or say things I later regret, I have done it on here before for sure.

    But I have never understood anyone who think’s booing your own players in the stadium has any positive effect whatsoever – I just cannot comprehend anyone who thinks it has.

    The Doomer’s have been a vocal minority for long enough – it is time to stand up and shout down the moron’s.

    If I ever seen anyone ‘protesting’ or waving a black scarf near me I am worried I may well get ejected.

  326. Wow! 7. That’s an impressive fanbase.

    We ought to extrapolate that hardcore fanbase to those we allow into the stadium, we’d have all of 10,000 supporters at games, on a good day.

  327. Evil – thats the first time I can remember United coming to the Emirates in years and playing two up top.

    Normally Fergie overloads the midfield to break up our passing, the fact he thought he could do that (which he did) with Giggs + Carrick is perhaps a sign of the percieved drop in quality in our game.

    The opertaive phrase being PERHAPS A SIGN.

    Just to clear things up!

  328. Gains.

    I was happy that yennaris did well but games ebb and flow even when the same players are on the field and things often change after half time. As well as he may have done given the circumstances trying to rationalize that bringing on a ” proper right back” like him really changed the game is a very long stretch.

  329. You’re not wrong about The Arsenal stewards – might just be a few bad apples amongst the bunch but there are certainly some shining examples of ‘a little bit of power being a dangerous thing’.

    The booing thing is shameful – because it’s counter-productive. As YW says, when you are at the game that is no time for anything other than support

  330. You know what really fucks me off?
    People who come on and say “I really support Arsene and appreciate all he has done for us”
    Then come out with a list of his perceived mistakes.
    Here is a fact.None of us on this blog ,even the very best of us ,know anything like enough to claim that Arsene is ,has or will make mistakes.
    Only extreme arrogance or ignorance would allow someone to do so.

  331. Harry really isn’t a smart man, “Hmm wonder what I’ll call the account holding the lot of my unlawful endeavor$?”

  332. Shameful is too polite a word Jonny.

  333. “Arsenal stewards are like Nazis.”

    Really? Not even, just the teeniest bit disingenious? Why do we have so many demented idiots whoi can’t even make a simple comment without attacking the club they ‘love’. Go easy on the stella mate.

    I will defend the honour of the sweet old dear who frog marched me out of a section where I shouldn’t have been sitting* to the last days.

    *Great view!..I was in the hacks’s section. heh. Even though I can’t spell or type, I can still write better then most of them. I deserved my seat.

  334. Here and there, Gainsbourg, here and there. The dooming seemed to be dispil…depilat…disperin..going away over the last few months. They came back yesterday though like a bloated bag of pus at the ground, so I hitched Lady Neena to the wagon, dusted off my pistols, and set off aiming to kick some doomer arse. I mean ‘ass,’ of course.

  335. Hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaah. Reminds me of the good old days, finsbury.The stewards and plod had a sense of humour in those days. Now its all dayglo andhobby bobbies wearing bullet proof knickers.

  336. JD
    “the one thing i am entitled to is come on here and vent as low and behold everythign that some of us cretins thought might happen in the summer is happening. ”
    *****
    CBob, after you have finished mucking out the chickens, please clear some of the crap out of here.

  337. Sod this Elvis nonsense. They should play some Morricone before the start of each game. With Matt With No Name around woe betide anyone who boos.

  338. Damn right Frank…. The revolution starts here…. Just call me Che from now on….

  339. I have three times in recent years had stewards take me to task for having too big a lens and an SLR camera – and no it’s really not massive, just a 70-300mm. You can get much bigger zooms on a compact these days!

    A more sensible one recently, warned me to try to keep my camera out of sight, as some of the stewards take their role a bit seriously! Her, I liked.

    It’s not like I’m selling pics to the fucking papers! ;0)

  340. Post of the day from James at 12.34 – and he;s a Spud, for goodness sake.

  341. Doesn’t everyone have an offshore bank account in their dog’s name? Surely you don’t think our Arry is a crooked sort of chap.

  342. I think one of the biggest challenges with OX is that we avoid a wilshere like situation comes autumn. We do NOT want him out for an entire season due to overuse. No matter how good he is.

  343. I thought you only used that camera from your bedroom window Jonny?

    Sure I remember you saying the zoom was plenty for over the road’s house….

  344. Morocco v Tunisia tonight. 19.00 gmt

  345. Jonny, just don’t start drumming on the back wall if you ever try a game from the back back row…
    It’s all about the CCD pinholes these days. Mega mega pixels baby.

  346. You know what really fucks me off?
    People who come on and say “I really support Arsene and appreciate all he has done for us”
    Then come out with a list of his perceived mistakes.
    Here is a fact.None of us on this blog ,even the very best of us ,know anything like enough to claim that Arsene is ,has or will make mistakes.
    Only extreme arrogance or ignorance would allow someone to do so.

    bingo!

  347. There is less than half the season left Poodle – he should be alright! Especially once Gerv is back to help lighten the load.

    @Matt – shhhh.

  348. Fins

    “Jonny, just don’t start drumming on the back wall if you ever try a game from the back back row…”

    I’m sorry but errr, what?? 😉

  349. Jonny – Do you post your pictures anywhere? I took some for the first time yesterday with my new camera, sadly I haven’t saved enough for a good zoom lens yet. I still got a great shot of a steward giving me a very moody look though 🙂

  350. if some people are really so unhappy, and so convinced that wenger has lost it… why don’t they go and buy over the club. why don’t they go apply for wenger’s job. why don’t they go apply for a coaching position. why don’t they go for a trial and play for arsenal. why don’t they go be a ref and give every decision against utd, spuds, shitty and chelsea?

    do something constructive.

  351. @Cesc_Ara
    Using that line is usually just a vain attempt to boost the legitimacy of their arguments, dress up their drivel as sensible words coming from a fan when at the end of the day it’s the same bull that has polluted the comments whenever we have lost a game.

  352. we are at a crucial point in our season.

    the media will do whatever it can to stir things up. to unsettle the players. to put pressure on wenger. whether because they really hate arsenal that much (i am inclined to think that), or because they are trying to sell more papers, it doesnt matter.

    don’t fan it. any sign of division among the ranks here will just be stoked, extrapolated, exaggerated.

    wenger said: the media reflect as well as create the fear of fans.

    this is war. a propanganda war. don’t be influenced. don’t sway. don’t give anything to the enemy for them to use against us.

    if you are not strong enough to fight, then get off the bandwagon, go support shitty, united, spurs or chelsea. we don’t need you. we can’t ahve you. it is like your family backstabbing you. it is worse than betrayal.

    so get off. if you really love Arsenal as much as you claim, but can’t stomach the fight, sit out. we will really do better without you.

    be a man, do the right thing.

  353. mattyboy – nah just for my own photography collection.

    One thing that no one has mentioned much is how fucking good was the Arsenal goal? Sublime timing on Kos’ tackle followed by perfect distribution. Rampaging run from the ox and a reverse pass onto RVP’s diagonal.

    The shot looked tame at first but the placement was inch perfect so it mattered not a jot (even if the keeper did get tips to it). one of the best goals this season.

  354. evil i dont know if you have personal stuff with george..lol im pretty new here …but what he says is correct…doubt wenger? critisise him? lol..who is as arrogant and ignorant to do so?

  355. cesc_ara there are plenty with personal stuff with me.Evil is not one of them.You misread his post

  356. Jonny, hitting the back wall of the stand in the upper tier when sat there to make loud booming noise when a goal is scored, something like that. Phew, hope that’s clear.
    I’m just glad my friend didn’t bring his saxophone with him.

  357. It’s a team game MD. We are going to need a good squad to keep our noses out of the crap on this blog for the rest of the season.

    Good to have Frank back.

  358. It was a great goal Jonny. RVP is one of the best strikers in the world right now. OX was a threat when he had the ball at his feet all day. Some day I hope he will be our version of the lesser Ronaldo without the attitude Mert was awesome. Evra and Nani were running around the penalty box on our right and he stopped everything. Kos had a superb 2nd half of the game and that play that started the counter attack was sublime.

    Mike Dean even had a good day.

    Losing to United is not a bad thing. The 2 Manchester clubs are steps above everyone else in the league and the tables show that. We need to stop dropping points in the games we should be winning. The bad thing is we don’t have the luxury of being able to have a bad game now and then for the rest of the season. If Chelsea, Liverpool or even Newcastle put together a run of wins we are in trouble.

  359. kori too! is saying the right things.

    kori we each write a chant ofr arsenal….wenger asked for unity and the mugs in the stands boo …..lol…them utter wankers…

    ( fer-na-ndo- to-resliverpoolnumberniiiiiiiiiine)

    dont drop your heads and pass that ball and score them goals
    spread it to the left and right and FUUUUUUUUCK them all
    your football blows my mind
    every fucking time
    stand up fight win we are the arsenal

    from highbury to emirates i followed you
    across the land and the whole world to siiiiiiiiiiing for you
    we wear the red and white
    we’re gooners till we die
    stand up fight win we are the arsenal

    the football that yuo play is just magnificent
    worth every fucking pound that i have ever spent
    support you through the thin
    support you through the thick
    ARSENE WENGER YOU ARE THE NUMBER ONE

    youre telling me that if 60,000 maniacs start rocking the stadium with the above for 90 mins our players wont perfrom better….? they will die for you on the pitch…..

  360. Ahhh I see Fins – I thought it was an arcane photography reference connected to the comment beneath!

    Never been right at the back for games – when I do I’ll see if I can get away with some banging!

    It’s interesting some grounds seem to let a full brass ensemble in – I think the Emirates is at the other end of the spectrum.

  361. its simple..we dont boo..
    if we want to have a moan and a nag then do it in the pub or on the blogs..

    if your going to the stadium then your going for one thing and one thing alone..if its to vent frustration then just dont go..

    empty seats speaks more than going just to throw abuse…its counter productive to do it when a game is in the balance like that..the substitution did give fergie the advantage in the game of tactical chess arsene and he were playing and the fact he overloaded our left hand side straight after arsenes change was like he was waiting for us to put arshavin on…

    nonetheless..the game wasnt over..let the manager manage..if theres anything to say then say it after the game..

  362. Where I was sitting in the West Upper, I could see right down the barrel of that RvP shot, Johnny.’Inch perfect’ sums it up, the precision, weight and sublime cunning to use the defender to blind the keeper. Superb. Oxo’s run and pass were fantastic. He read RvPs intentions perfectly. Two footballers 10 years apart demonstrating their art. A privilege to see. Win lose or draw I could watch this team all day every day.

  363. The goal was not just Arshavin’s fault. Not sure where TV was for the 2nd goal.
    Song’s game has dropped – we can probably attribute this to fatigue and also the fact that Arteta was not playing.
    RVP’s game has dropped too but he still managed that impossible goal. We need another attacKing threat. The Ox has it in him.
    I also don’t buy the argument that RVP will leave for the sake of CL football if Arsenal don’t qualify. He has played CL football with Arsenal.
    I am all for the suggestion that Rosicky start ahead of Ramsey for a few of games. Rosicky looked sharp in the last two games.
    I cannot undertand how ManU keep winning with a makeshift defense.

  364. what the fuck does stock exchange mean in that? translation error?

  365. Not sure about Dean. He seemed to be on the pitch as Ryan Giggs keeper and booking RvP for pointing out the time wasting was totally unnecessary and disrespectful. Actually RvP gave them the evil eye as the three old crows left the pitch at the end of the game. Plague of boils over the next few days I would say.

  366. to be fair, Dean didnt give them a penalty when rooney flopped himself to the ground. what a disgrace. in fact, i was amazed that dean didnt give them that penalty.

  367. RvPs game has certainly not dropped.

    Some people need to read the runes. RvP is at Arsenal for the duration. This is his club.

  368. i think in all the kerfuffle about what happened yesterday its becoming worrying that the fans are becoming more and more divided..all the infighting is a sign of the times though…

    the frustration and concern (as well as the sheer knobheadness) is starting to creep in again and no amount of scarves on seats or unvieling of statues is going to raise the spirits..

    a signing right now would do wonders for the confidence of the whole club right now but i guess we can forget it..we just need to start getting the results

  369. I think things have come to such a pass that as long as a referee doesn’t deny us a penalty or rules out a legitimate goal as offside we think he has had a good game. Mike Dean didn’t have any game changing impact, and most Arsenal fans are glad about that small mercy.

  370. JJ just out of interest do you actually thing AOC was doing a sterling job in covering the LB?
    Arshavin was actually there trying to block and following him into the box.
    Where were the LB and DM?
    I will tell you where,ball watching and having a generally poor game.
    We buy a No.10 play him wide and want him to defend like Bobby Moore.

  371. Quite so, Frank – privileged is the word I always use in reference to being lucky enough to have ended up supporting this club. Different type of class altogether.

    How they in turn were privileged enough to find a manager with the perfect values, élan and outright talent to take the club to where we are now AND him have essentially the perfect first name to boot..?

    The mind boggles.

  372. keyser

    spot on on that. that’s how little faith i have in referees nowadays.

  373. george..
    no mate, i dont think oxo was offering all that much protection to our fb…neither was theo..

    and to be honest i dont think its the job of the wide players to protect the fbs when you play a 433, but thats a different debate..

    but what he was doing was going for the jugular of the utd defence and his pace and control had them scared..the game was very open in the second half as we attacked with more tempo and oxo was ripping them a new one..they were afraid to commit in case we got them on the break..

    as soon as AA came on fergie was off the ropes..we’d lost our dangerman…and the fact that fergie took is right back off and threw on another attacking player on arshavins side just showed who much he gave a fuck about arshavin being on the pitch..

  374. @Cesc_Ara
    What I was pointing out is that the “I love Arsenal and support Arsene buuuuuut (long list of perceived mistakes by the manager follows)” line is just used to try and give legitimacy to comments that don’t deserve any credibility whatsoever.

    @Keysersoze
    I don’t think it’s an error. Basically in Turkey clubs have to declare what they are doing on the stock exchange. Financial transparency, blahblahblah. So maybe they really made an announcement at the Stock Exchange to their shareholders.

    @Jonny
    Truth! Paying the money for a ticket doesn’t entitle you to anything. You should feel privileged that you have an opportunity to yell your heart out and support the club you love. If you feel that having a ticket to the stadium entitles you to anything, you are definitely in the wrong place.

  375. pedantic george on January 23, 2012
    at 4:37 pm said:

    “Here is a fact.None of us on this blog ,even the very
    best of us ,know anything like enough to claim that
    Arsene is ,has or will make mistakes.”

    What the heck kind of statement is that??? EVERYBODY makes mistakes, even Wenger has admitted that he made ‘an error’, or are trying to say he is God?

    I respect that most people on this blog love/respect/trust Wenger (I do too, the first two) but this is getting out of hand

    I’m sorry this has to be my first? post on ACLF

  376. @JJ
    Clearly both weren#t doing an outstanding job but Theo at least tried. Remember him putting in a good defensive shift on the right after the interval. He gave Yennaris the protection that Djourou was missing.

  377. George:

    Very few defenders could have stopped Valencia running at them at pace, much less an attacking player like Arshavin.

  378. theo was useless yesterday..
    as were many..

    the positives from the game were the kids..as well as the immence world class kozzer..best defender in europe right now..

  379. “I paid my money so I can do whatever I want”.

    It’s not as though I would stand for this at the the opera or the theatre, and this way more fucking cultured.

  380. I wonder if our Irishman in New York has recovered after the Giant’s OT winner to get to the Superbowl, yesterday..?!

    Great finish to the game it was too – gotta love watching the 49ers lose.

  381. JJ

    it is the job of the 3 midfielders.

  382. JJ:

    I thought Mert was the best defender on the day for us. Nani and Evra spent the whole first half running around almost free in the right side of our penalty box, and Mert was able to hold his ground and we would not have conceded despite being totally outplayed in the first 1/2 if someone had marked Valencia on that cross. Koz made a brilliant play to start the counter attack on the goal we scored, but are you giving him a pass when both goals they scored were on his side of the pitch. Not sure who should have marked Valencia on the first goal, probably TV5. On the second goal Arshavin had no chance to stop Valencia, we needed either TV, Song or the Koz intervene when he got into the danger area but none did. Perhaps that bit harsh on Koz but not giving Mert credit is also harsh.

  383. Kos was immense yesterday. Motm.

  384. Kos had a great game. His tackle in our box to start the move for out goal was superb.

  385. the fullbacks didnt play well, because they are not fullbacks. they made positional errors. we need our fullbacks to come back soon, because you can play with non-specialist full-backs for 2, 3 games. but not 5. they just get exposed, especially against teams with real wingers like swansea and united.

  386. Well, looks like our traditionalk end of season collapse is starting a bit earlier than usual! 🙂

    There was a lot of frustrated Gooners where I was stood yesterday and a few were angry, they were surprised at the Oxo kid coming off, but none booed Arshavin where we were. WE were poor, the whole team as they have been for weeks now. The squad is stretched to breaking point and players are being over used, just as they were last season. Because we dont have a good enough squad.

    It will be sad to see Wenger go, but its time now, thanks Arsene!

  387. Interseting stuff from this Igor comrad correspondant in russia for talk shite regarding andrei….says in russia they think AA has put on too many pounds from a holidy in miami two years ago and has not shifted it and is not fit enough for the prem. also they reckon he is a spent force now that he is 30 and his best years are behind him…

  388. i also think 4-3-3 is alot about the players covering for each other to kill off the space. our midfield trio didnt do it against swansea. didnt do it in the first half against united, and we got punished.

    but i still think our players are more suited to a 4-3-3, and 4-3-3 is ultimately, when rightly executed, more efficient than 4-4-2. 4-4-2 basically means every player is on his own defensively. 4-4-2 is all about 1v1s. newcastle whacked manure 3-0 because every newcastle player beat their opponent. i think our players are players who use the ball to beat the opponent. so 4-3-3 is more suited for us.

    if the midfield trio can cover the defensive duties of the two wing players (ox and walcott) and release passes that unleash their pace. things will get really interesting.

    as it stands, i think attacking wise, we miss gervinho’s direct running. some may groan about his finishing. defoe, an out-an-out striker did no better yesterday. nor did torres on saturday.

  389. at least we have frank back, thats cheered me up no end!

  390. @dukegoonem the Russian papers for the past 6 months have been saying that AA is spent and he is now just collecting a paycheck because AW is so loyal and knows that he can.

  391. BFG did well bill i agree
    hes a great defender also..
    i wouldnt sat koz was at fault for the goals though

    i think TV should shoulder alot of the blame..

    korihikage, yes

  392. DukeG

    Why the fuck do you listen to Talksnide man?

  393. Koscielny always has a great game. Seriously, I can’t think of many mistakes he has made this year. The own goal against Blackburn, the one against Swansea where he let Holt get the better of him (though that wasn’t only his fault) … anybody can think of anything else?

    Anyway, who in the Prem is as good as Kos? Kompany maybe? And who in Europe? He must certainly be in the Top 5.

  394. TV has a lot to answer for JJ.

  395. To those inclined this is fascinating – civil war at the Bernabéu?

    Not just us with a polarised fanbase…

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jan/23/mourinho-real-madrid-sid-lowe?CMP=twt_gu&CMP=EMCFTBEML853

  396. Evil

    Agreed, he has been excellent all season.

  397. And here are some stats and analysis – I know, I know I’m too good to you…
    http://www.eplindex.com/8865/arsenal-1-united-2-stats-wenger-outwitted.html

  398. evil hes the best.
    if kompany had have made that tackle yesterday everyone would have been having a wank..

  399. JJ:

    Kos is an excellent player and he is the best all around defensive player on the team taking into account everything he can do and he is the first defender that I would put on a team sheet. I still think Mert is the best “pure defender”. Watch the first half of the game again and his side of the penalty box was totally under siege and he never let them have a really good look at goal.

  400. Any combination from Mertesacker/TV5/Kos is a great CB pairing.

  401. bill i am with you i like BFG i think he adds alot to this team..
    ive said it on here many times before BFG is the type of guy who gets unoticed but his presence has been a positive for the likes of anyone who has played with him..

    kozzers been fantastic and i think BFG has had a part to play in that..

  402. @Jonny
    Those stats are alright, but why are they comparing Rooney to VP? Played completely different roles in the game. VP compared with Welbeck or Ramsey with Rooney would’ve been more accurate.

  403. Jonny.

    Let’s get serious here.

    I think you are understating the size of your monster lens; 300 mm, that’s a WHOPPER, whatever you might have us believe!

    Though I suspect it was your tripod blocking all the fire exits that caused the steward-based grief.

    Gave up taking my camera to football matches long ago but never had a problem at the major cricket grounds round the world (Lords, The Oval, Durham), or even the smaller ones (Sydney, Melbourne).

    For some reason it’s terribly important we don’t take pictures of the game – but nobody seems to know why.

    Looking forward to the day phone cameras can do the job just as well – not long now ….

  404. It’s really not that big Andrew!

    I realise 300mm lenses CAN be enormous but the lens housing, in this instance, is about 7″. No tripod required!

  405. I just love this site; ‘nothing to worry about’ written in a different way each week, ‘complete faith in the manager’, ‘respect,’ ‘injured players returning’ and all the other tropes trotted out time after time. One day it will emerge that the site is propaganda written by AW himself.

    Has anyone seen the all to obvious connection between AFC and RIM? Once global leader now on its knees, inferior product, minor shuffle of the board (‘all will be well’) while the entire enterprise slowly circles the drainhole, obvious to any outsider but not to insiders Maybe it’s a British class thing to have faith in doomed enterprises (‘glorious failure’; ‘don’t question authority’, ‘Dunkirk’ and all the rest of the stiff upper lip myths that make out you’re all in this together; ‘sharing the load’ etc etc) but here in North America we tend to call a spade a spade and act to redress a situation. There is no North American expression for ‘coping.’

    The furore over the OX yesterday is a sideshow to perennial decline under an ageing Wenger. The stats and lack of trophies don’t lie my friends; Swansea and Norwich are examples of the new managerial breed; street smart who don’t give a rat’s arse about respect. Respect don’t win games. The Emperor Wenger has no clothes as van Persie will tell the world oh, in about 3 months time. Wengers teams of late lack the DNA to be consistent winners.

    What’s not right about this picture? A once proud ocean liner stuck on the rocks and ready to slip further into deep water. Pity poor Henry! He’ll be wishing he’d stayed ashore.

    Maybe this is all vitriol but it’s a free world and the above is a much more accurate assessment of the state of play at AFC compared to most of the stuff that appears on this site.

  406. Andy @ 7:14:

    I agree, I think Kos is the first choice of the 3. I think having Mert with him makes him a better defender because he can be more agressive and take more risks. I worry about Kos and TV but time will tell how they will be since we have not really had a chance to see them together. Kos will have to take the stay at home role more in that pairing.

    I agree that any combination of the 3 along with Wojo will be the best defensive pairing we have had for several years. Disappointed that they have let down the last few games. We couldn’t afford that. We struggle to score and we need the defense to be spot on every game. They can’t afford even a short run of indifferent form.

  407. Copernicus – still think the sun, stars and plants revolves around you eh? #badchoiceofname

  408. copernicus
    “but here in North America we tend to call a spade a spade and act to redress a situation. There is no North American expression for ‘coping”
    *****
    Given the wonderful standard of the Republican candidates for President, and the fact that America has 47 million people living below the official poverty level, I would say that you are an arrogant fvcker ‘copernicus.’ Pretty much like Newt Gingrich repeatedly stating that America won World War 2 in 3 years and 8 months.

  409. But Jonny, it’s a free world.

    That’s the main thing.

  410. I admit that I have not watched every match with every defender but to me Kos is the best defender going. One of the best I have ever seen actually. The ease with which he does the difficult is amazing.

  411. MDGunner – 47 million people FREE to live below the official poverty level, mind.

    Probably each with their own spade.

    And all coping, obviously; that’s a given as they apparently have no expression for it.

  412. cant we discuss the future of the club without talking bollox???
    what a shit comment..what the fuck has dunkirk or any of the other crap mentioned have anything to do with anything..

    if you want my take on the situation
    its that the share price is worth what at this minute in time?? about 14K?? there or there abouts..
    now how much will that share price be worth in a couple of years time when the debt has been further reduced/ paid off and the sponserships have been re negotiated??
    doesnt matter about not playing in cl either…player sales and ticket price hike will go along way to keep the bank account topped up and the share price topped up…

    seems to me that someone doesnt give a toss about the football and is out to make a quick buck…north american by anychance??

  413. Bill Hicks:

    ‘Keep repeating we are free!
    Keep repeating we are free!’

    What is Freedom? A Constant Struggle from Field Studies on Vimeo.

  414. Hmmm. That link didn’t work:

  415. Don’t have an expression for coping and yet we seem to coping better than you. Jog on septic monkey.

    Paul – yes all aboard the Kozboat – been telling my flatmates ad nauseam he’s the best CB in Europe. It’s starting to seep in.

    Andrew – I read an Ian M Banks short story once and they have a line where one of the culture is looking at the humans who have banned photography in a stadium or some such and remarks with incredulity “They want to own the light?!”. I always think of this when I’m telling an Arsenal steward to grow up.

  416. Why is it all the cunts have the most ridiculous pretentious names?

  417. Copernicus, a manager like Arsene would be revered in the US and you know it.

    There are coaches that have won much less than Wenger that are looked upon with nuff respect.

  418. How many in America with no health care insurance? Or get medicated by self diagnosis, withch doctor, voodoo preiestess and ebay?

    Talking of drugs, I had some top grade MDMA Sunday, needed it after that result.

  419. I also like BFG and the best thing about him is that he isnt going to jump ship!!

  420. Bill: “I was happy that yennaris did well but games ebb and flow even when the same players are on the field and things often change after half time. As well as he may have done given the circumstances trying to rationalize that bringing on a ” proper right back” like him really changed the game is a very long stretch.”

    This shows how clueless you are when it comes to d-fence. Did you see how Yennaris anticipated Nani and cut off the space he operated in? We took away one of their most potent weapons and pinned them back. But I guess you didn’t see it because you think D-fence begins and ends with the two centre backs.

  421. Jonny – sounds like a good book – it’s a great line!

    Presumably a Manchester based culture (I’m using the phrase loosely here) would borrow against the value of the light and repay over countless decades?

    Talking of Mancs and seeing the light, looks like Balotelli will be getting his comeuppance for trying to cut the head off the spud yesterday. Great timing by him, really thinking about his teammates there, slap bang in the middle of the African C of N’s ‘n’ all …

  422. Arsenalandrew – depends what you mean by “free” – free to vote? Not necessarily. In the two Baby Bush elections, many poor Americans were denied the vote because their names were removed from voter lists just because they were similar to that of a felon. Of course the company that was doing the checking just happened to be a friend of the Republicans/Bush family. Only now it getting worse.
    But here’s always the American Dream, work ten jobs, put yourself through college, win the Powerball, end up lke Donald Trump. Awesome.

  423. Gains:

    My point (which I made poorly I guess) was that saying he was responsible for turning around our poor first half performance and allowing us to get on the front foot was a bit of hyperbole. They completely outplayed us the first 1/2 and it seems unreasonable to me that our system breaks down because we have one of our players having a tough game. We should be able to adjust and compensate for one player who is struggling.

  424. Wavey | January 23, 2012 at 10:41 am

    I was there, it was aimed at the referee

  425. I’m perplexed. I just discovered that the consensus reaction seems to be that Balotelli should not have been charged. This is startling news to me, I thought it was obviously a deliberate stamp. What’s the ACLF viewpoint?

  426. Yesterdays performance was Arsenals season in microcosym. Just hoping it isnt the start of our usual end of season implosion. Its back to the drawing board for Arsene who must be sick as a dog this morning. The only positive and you would never beleive it from the way the pundits said we were outplayed was the game was a lot closer than the 8-2 reverse. Some things have improved but losing again in a game which we could have won is all too familiar. Instead we have to endure more gloating from the red and blue half of Manchester. Whats worse at this rate so will Spurs. However booing Arshavin and the Manager is totally brainless..The same Arshavin that scored the winner against barca in the best game we have ever seen at the Emirates and the same Arshavin who scored 4 goals against liverpool. he has seriously lost his mojo and one needs to ask what has happened to him ?WTF??????The opportunity cost of a sparkling new stadium is some time in the wilderness…remember that when you are shouting from the terraces… I am convinvced it will be worth it in the end. COYG. How many hearts does Laurent Koscielny have? Easily our player of the season next to RVP. he was a beast. A great cmaeo form the Ox also. Bac and Jack could not get back sooner. 2 weeks!!!!Sorry for the rant

  427. it was cynical jonny. intent was there for sure. he put his foot down with more force then he should have… although i do like balotelli as he is a character that was dirty.

  428. I think we can finish the season strong if we keep players fit and get players back.

  429. Bill, whether unreasonable or not, it is the truth. Our formation relies heavily on our presence out wide. With out some one contesting the opposing winger we are pinned back more easily. This means that if Theo is dropping back to help out on defese Van Persie has no one to play with upfront and our shape is compromised. Once our shape is compromised we are more vulnerable on the counter, which is why Ferguson played his team the way he did.

  430. Passenal: “I was there, it was aimed at the referee”

    Care to expand on that, Pass?

  431. Wow, If redknapp is found guilty I the charges against him that is serious for englishfootball. This could be a proper pandoras box that nobody in the industry really want to open.

  432. what if we dont duke?
    do you think wengers gone?

    yeah johnny it was a stamp..

  433. sorry, jonny

  434. MD Gunner (8.16) – just in case of doubt, I was being tasteless and flippant in response to our tasteless and flippant North American friend at 7.30.

    If you ARE living below the poverty line I can’t imagine there is an awful lot worth being ‘free’ for …

    But as you say – there’s always the American Dream and as the lovely Debbie Harry once memorably sang: ” … dreaming is free.”

  435. Are you really Ryu Miyazaki, Big Al? I thought I was doing alright breaking the top 10! Matt’s always been tasty at that game.

    Only idiots and children boo and I’m obv not defending that but the press do spin it so it’s all anti-Arsene, anti-player booing where in reality booing is a complex cloud of cuntery; some of it’s aimed at the ref, some of it at the Utd fans, the time-wasting opposition and the result itself – which seemed unjust after having the best of the 2nd half. Again, only idiots and children boo and most of it is just aimless idiot dissatisfaction from a bunch of cunts who think they’re at the punch and judy. I think you get it all across the country to be honest – cunts that is, and therefore booing. It’s not anything articulate enough to be called anti-Arsene so we shouldn’t do the press a favour by calling it that.

    The Clock End upper there was barely any of it. Clock End is always better for numbers staying behind to cheer the players after the game too – I find. But of course, they don’t report on the thousands of us who did that – they write up the boo-boys and try to destabilise us.

    I know what you say at the top of the comments is true, Frank, I’ve been offered quite a few games from people who do just that. The tickets will often lie dormant when they can’t be bothered. At the last AGM (I think it was there) Ivan spoke about measures to push that lot out by upping prices in that particular band – but I don’t really remember the details. Shifting those empty seats has long been a target.

  436. JJ,

    what as in getting sacked…not a chance is there.

  437. Gains:

    “Bill, whether unreasonable or not, it is the truth. Our formation relies heavily on our presence out wide. With out some one contesting the opposing winger we are pinned back more easily.”

    If thats true and our fullbacks are that important to our team, then why in the world wouldn’t we bite the bullet, spend the money and get a full back. We have known about the full back injuries since Nov and we still have no idea when they will return. We could have gotten a LB and moved TV to CB and Kos would have been superb out on the right. I realize that it would have given us a pile up when everyone got healthy but when was the last time everyone was healthy? In the end isn’t having an extra body worth the trouble when your season is in the balance? Next season we could send Gibbs on loan for 6 months if needed. Trying to “get by” has cost us so many times in the past.

  438. No probs JJ.

    Duke – I like Balotelli too but yeah it wasn’t pleasant – just amazed about the challenge as I hadn’t even considered it as anything other than an obviously deliberate action.

  439. Jonny, it was an intentional stamp.

  440. Right after we scored there only looked one winner. Crowd up, momentum massively with us – Nani’s injury really robbed us of that momentum I thought. Big shame. We should have been all over them after the restart of course, but either way, that stoppage was a real game changer. Gave us too much time to think maybe.

  441. “You don’t know what you’re doing” – I see some people trying to make out that it was aimed at AW. It wasn’t. The referee wasn’t bad overall, but he did not do enough to stop the falling over, feigning injury and general time-wasting by the mancs. And as for allowing Nani to hop across the whole pitch after his long lie down, that was really pissing people off around me.

    I also agree with Frank that most blogs create and amplify the negativity around the team that directly leads to the disgraceful scenes we witnessed yesterday. We have no right to criticise any player who chooses not to extend his contract with the club if we cannot even be bothered to support them when they need us. Some of the negative shit I heard as I walked back to the tube station could have come straight from the comment section here, and this is not even one of the worst.

  442. Sorry, my 9.16 pm post was in response to Gainsbourg69 | January 23, 2012 at 8:55 pm

  443. LimparAssist | January 23, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    I bet you he was not really injured and will be back in their next game.

  444. On the plus side did find a great pub – near your yard, Finsbury – called the Faltering Fullback. Fitting on the day that Johan Djo… no, I won’t go there. He’s not even a bloody fullback, poor lad.

    Nico Yennaris was a massive positive. Should have started the game for me – but I understand the arguments against that.

    Ho-hum. Maybe we’ll start a game with a fullback some time soon. Last happened early December I think. (!!!FOR FUCK SAKE!!!) I’m fine about it really…

  445. Yup. Thought had very much crossed my mind, P. The play acting may well have extended into a little stretcher ride.

    Rooney should have been booked for diving – definitely once, arguably twice.

  446. LA – the crowd was raging about that, particularly his attempt to ‘win’ a penalty. A referee with a spine would have booked him. It was absolutely shocking. It certainly earned him a chorus of the granny shagger song! And it was good to see the Arsenal crowd give an opposition player stick for a change!

  447. Rooney’s theatrical dives are getting embarrassing. They also caused an earthquake off the coast of Honshu, Japan

  448. Passenal @ 9:16

    “We have no right to criticise any player who chooses not to extend his contract with the club if we cannot even be bothered to support them when they need us.”

    There it is!

  449. “We have no right to criticise any player who chooses not to extend his contract with the club if we cannot even be bothered to support them when they need us.”

    Passenal.That is the pure gold.I doff my cap. Seriously.

  450. So, I can criticise the bastards if they fuck off then? Great, thats nice to know. 🙂

    Although it will have a lot more to do with other factors if Robin doesnt renew.

  451. No ,It will because he too is an ungrateful bastard.
    Time will tell

  452. Dex:

    Players extend their contracts or leave mostly because we can not or will not pay the same as other clubs. There are probably other factors but wages is 90% of the decision I suspect.

  453. Well, there is that Jorge and the fact he will have to turn his nose up at the mega bucks he will be geting offered, already by other clubs. But I have a shit load m9ore faith in van P rebuffing that than a ceretain rat faced northern chav.

    The club needs to do their bit, but will they? Hmmmmmm…. I say, Hmmmmmm

  454. Bill, I think players will stay, Bergkamp, henry and Pires all did when they could hAVE EARNED MORE CASH elsewhere. But they stayed, mainly because we were challenging. That fir me is the key. We aint doing that, so we need to pull on the old heart strings to keep the players. Well, that and for the club to actually address that not challenging shizzle. 🙂

  455. Quelled is the understandment of the year. I love the English wit. Our guys title hopes were killed deader than a doornail. Still the guys put up a great fight. On Fox they had a life long Arsenal support as part of the pre game show. Arsenal fans and Philadelphia Eagles fans are all cut from the same cloth. They both break your heart whether they win or lose. Today I am broken hearted yet I will carry on. We still have a shot at the Champions League spot. It is time for Wenger to go.

  456. Dex:

    Challenging for trophies is obviously a big plus, Family considerations also play a roll but the I still think that amounts of money available now have become so high and the barriers to moving have become lower so the money takes precedent. Its different with each person but for RVP this will be his last big contract and then his life as a wage earner is done from a football standpoint. Athletes today seem to see their career as a job, much more then in the past. How many of us would not move to another job doing the same thing if we were offered significantly more money at the other place? Not to mention the influence of their agents who get a big cut.

  457. It is time for Wenger to go.

    Really?
    Perhaps he should,and take Andrei with him.They both deserve better than a horde of ignorant baying halfwits that are an ever increasing proportion of Arsenal fans.
    Really if I were them I would be getting me coat

  458. Yes Bill but would we go if it meant leaving behind our loved ones.

  459. Passenal: ““You don’t know what you’re doing” – I see some people trying to make out that it was aimed at AW. It wasn’t. The referee wasn’t bad overall, but he did not do enough to stop the falling over, feigning injury and general time-wasting by the mancs. And as for allowing Nani to hop across the whole pitch after his long lie down, that was really pissing people off around me.”

    Thank you, Pass. That’s what I was saying yesterday, but some cunt named Jonny told me I was being blinkered. Again, thank you. And Jonny, you cunt/muppet, here you go.

  460. Having £20m in the bank or £40m, is there really that much diff? Once I went past the £5m mark, its all the same really.

  461. George:

    Thats probably the one consideration that can outweigh money although I suspect most families are willing to move if the pay hike is big enough. Challenging is important if the money is reasonably close. If the wage offers are not close then the offer is king I suspect.

  462. Dexter, we were challenging in a different environment. Perhaps if we weren’t missing 10 players we might still be challenging, maybe if supporters actually supported the team, we might still be challenging. Which top players are going to want to come to, or stay at a club with such a poisonous fan base?

  463. @Dex –

    RVP could be persuaded though it is much less likely if we fail to clinch a CL spot.

    The one difference in persuading RVP to stay is that the wage difference between what we can/will offer and what he would get elsewhere is much, much larger than before. Based on my ‘cig pack economics’ and guesstimations it could be as big a difference as £30 million over 4 years. That’s be a cock load of heartstrings to be pulled.

    Personally I think this is the year we’ll win the Champions League – why not?! If them scousers can nick it, anyone can. Might need that Messi character to pick up a knock but stranger things have happened.

  464. Dexter:

    “Having £20m in the bank or £40m, is there really that much diff? Once I went past the £5m mark, its all the same really”

    Perhaps not to you and I but it is a huge difference when you start to get into those sort of numbers and the type of things they can buy you. Over the top example but Tiger Woods yacht cost something like $50M and his home almost twice that. Obscene stuff but thats the sort of money these athletes are dealing with. A few million makes a lot of difference especially when you think it has to last them the rest of their lives.

  465. Bill: “If thats true and our fullbacks are that important to our team, then why in the world wouldn’t we bite the bullet, spend the money and get a full back. We have known about the full back injuries since Nov and we still have no idea when they will return. We could have gotten a LB and moved TV to CB and Kos would have been superb out on the right. I realize that it would have given us a pile up when everyone got healthy but when was the last time everyone was healthy? In the end isn’t having an extra body worth the trouble when your season is in the balance? Next season we could send Gibbs on loan for 6 months if needed. Trying to “get by” has cost us so many times in the past.”

    Bill you sure are one insufferable bag of wind, aren’t you? How the fuck did you go from me being hyperbolic about Yennaris’ impact on the game to whining about Wenger not biting the bullet and buying a fullback? I reckon Wenger didn’t buy anyone because Gibbs and Jenks are mere weeks away and we had Coquelin filling in while Vermaelen recuperated. Seriously, why would you spend millions on a fullback for two or three weeks worth of game time? Do they use monoploy money in this fantasy land you live in?

  466. The fanbase aint poisonous Passenal, there was a lot of anger yesterday, which has been blown out of proprtion. What will stop players joining/staying is doing our utmost to look an attractive proposition, which I dont think the club are. The injuries are a fucking pain, they were last season and the season before and the season before that.

  467. Passenal

    But we could be challenging, we aint at that is down to the manager and the board Im afraid.

  468. Passenal @9.16pm

    It is surprising how many people don’t want to even discuss that it was aimed at the ref. The media claim to represent the fanbase and state it was aimed at the manager. The herd proclaim it was aimed at the manager. The circle is complete, the self-fulfilling prophecy proclaimed.

    Sod the truth.

  469. There are mitigating circumstances for some of the team’s failings, like the injuries to all our fullbacks, but there have also been concrens oabout other aspects that I have mentioned numerous times. The way we fucked up last season is still fresh in the memory and that debacle at the beginning of this season, coupled with the loss of form over the last few weeks and the (seeming) lack of transfer activity now has culminated in some fans venting big style. I have not many friends at the Grove, I have often criticised them for being shit, silent, moany twats. That shit’s gonna go on till we win something, I think, every defeat will see screaming headlines demanding wenger goes and its pantomime season all year round!

  470. Bravo Gains – you’ve found one person who agrees with the version of events you gleaned from what you wanted to see.

    I have read and spoken to plenty of people who were there, and NONE of them saw it the way Passenal has described. It may have well have been different in the part of the stadium Passenal was in, but plenty of fans have said they heard abuse being hurled specifically at AA.

    But no, as usual, everyone else is wrong and you’re right beyond all question.

    Must be easy being so sanctimonious from across the pond – you just can’t accept any version of events that shows you as wrong.

    How that big club mentality working out?

  471. Yogi, I saw the highlights of the game last night and it was all edited to seem as if the fans were booing Wenger. The narrative has been written and all the gullible morons have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

  472. I never heard any abuse aimed at AA, there were definite groans that Oxo kid was going off. Oh and AA got blamed for their winner to.

  473. Gains:

    You know exactly what my point was.

  474. No, Gains, the booing was aimed at the manager. That’s the crucial difference. It was also aimed at Wenger, it was aimed at Arshavin; nobody politely applauds a player off and then starts booing the manager when his replacement is named.

  475. We could have had Martin O’Neil.
    Its to late now though

  476. Im confused Yogi? Who was it aimed at then?

  477. YW I had friends who were there, who are very clear that the booing (and appallingly some verbal abuse) was aimed squarely at Wenger and then at AA. Maybe some, in other parts of the ground, were booing the referee. Regardless it’s not clear that this is entirely down to the media directing the truth. Not clear at all.

  478. Oh gawd, I read some idiot site saying we should have got O’Neil as manager. Never ever ever should that happen, I’d rather Owen fucking flavour of the month March 2011 Coyle.

  479. Oh FFS, some wankers booed because we didnt win the emirates cup. Who gives a shit what some halfwits do?

  480. George

    I think Brendan Rogers is our man.

  481. No I don’t, Bill. Yennaris having done a great job against one of the biggest clubs in the league negates your stupid point about buying a fullback.

  482. Or Steve McClaren….

    Datsh itch, Im off to shmoke shum shkunk an have shecksh vish my hamshter.

    Gooten noychshe

  483. Yennaris looks quality man, our 6th/7th choice FB??? Stick him in there, he wont let us down.

  484. With Arshavin as fitness coach….

  485. Chris Waddle as interpreter.

  486. Dex, Jonny,

    I agreed the booing was aimed at the manager. Pass mentioned the chants of “You dont…” which where we were, seemed more at the ref than manager. The booing was directly at Arsenal’s manager and the substitute.

  487. Gains, what about a left back tho’?

  488. Ah, gotcha Yogi, couldnt hear any where I was

  489. Yes Dexter but could he play across the front 3?
    Because if people expect Andrei to play as a FB the surly the FB’s should be able to swap with them

  490. How do you like that management set up George? 🙂

    Dream team or what man!

  491. Jonny, you said that I was seeing what I wanted to see. You said that I was grasping at straws and that I wanted to paint a rosey picture. As it turns out, people in the stadium, not just Passenal, are saying that the booing was aimed at the referee because of the time wasting. It could have been aimed at Arshavin, but it is, as I said yesterday, inconclusive. So everything you accused me of yesterday you applies to you, except that you went full negative without a fucking clue about what really transpired at the stadium.

  492. George

    What? You hitting the cooking sherry hard again man?

  493. Righto glad that’s cleared that up.

    Who’s the cunt now, genius69? 😉

  494. Well YW if I was standing next to someone booing Arsene and Andrei,I would surly be in court the following morning.

  495. Yogi, Vermaelen is back in the side. I hear he’s a decent stop gap. So is Franny Le Coq.

    Dex, Yennaris looked good against one of the best players in the league. I say give him a shot. It’s not like Wenger doesn’t take a punt on a youngster and he turns out to be better than expected, is it?

  496. George

    Not sure hitting someone across the haed with a black pudding is regarding as an offence man.

  497. You, Jonny. It seems as if you go negative by instinct.

  498. Gains

    And Yennaris has already played well this season. So, it wasnt a fluke, IMO.

    I dont see much point signing a fullback now. The need is greater elsewhere IMO, although I am keeping my powder dry, ahem. 🙂

  499. Dex

    WTF are you talking about?

  500. Surly George? Surly? You are surely surly on here, I’d expect you to be surly everywhere…

  501. G69, Coquellin. Injured isn’t he?

  502. No one pretends that Wenger is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, Wenger is the worst manager except for all those others that have been suggested from time to time.

    (With apologies to Winston Churchill)

  503. You would be right Yogi I surely am.
    Cant even blame my phone.

  504. Ha! G69! You precious, petty little liar, I never said that – my post from yesterday

    Matter of opinion Gains – and so far today yours have looked the wibblings of an increasingly deluded man.

    You wanted Spurs to win so we could challenge Man City for the title, you think we played ‘well’ and you think the booing was aimed at Nani. All through tinted spectacles and in face of the plainly evident. Your binary world has occluded the middle ground – what most refer to as common sense.

    We are in a shit-fight for 4th (nothing’s changed there), I normally love the heart to rule the head but jeez, open your blooming eyes. Go on just a little.

    Clearly I said it was a matter of opinion.

    Hilariously it was YOU that decided conclusively that the booing was aimed at Nani and the majority of people who thought otherwise were fucking dissenters and idiots.

    I can’t bothered to deal with this – it’s SO pointless – you repeatedly lie about things I have supposedly said. But here’s the thing, who cares about this most pointless irrelevant of things??

    It’s really not important enough to go around calling people dumbfucks and cunts.

    Says more about you that you get so stupidly worked up in an effort to prove you know everything and better about everything than everyone else.

    And read through my comments today – there isn’t a single negative thought in there – I’ve been more positive than most on here and have repeatedly been at pains to point out this season is far from over. But why let the truth get in the way of your version…

    Jeez. Why am I wasting my time bothering?! 😉

  505. It’s funny when squad players hold clubs to ransom, it furthermore emphasises the problem with football nowadays. Anyway, I struggle to see how a player, who is lightening quick, struggles to beat full backs. He does do it on the odd occasion, but he doesn’t seem to have the confidence to do it on a regular basis, it’s something that would improve his game to a new level. His finishing, for a player that wants to play as a striker, is inconsistent. You’ll see him score some world class finishes, but then in other games he makes a meal out of simple finishes. In the current 4-3-3, he’s definitely not going to operate as a striker, but in a 4-4-2 I reckon it would work well.

    Walcott is still a young player, he’s only 22, there’s lots of time for improvement. Even if you want Walcott out of Arsenal, there is a lack of goal scoring depth, there’s no winger on the bench who is going to find the back of the net. Not only that though, but the fact that you don’t have adequate cover for Walcott. Replacing him with Chamberlain seems to be the best option, at the moment. Also, I think that Wenger hasn’t rotated enough, the squad has been calling for Chamberlain to make an appearance for a while. He seems more fresh and is more of a threat to full backs than Walcott. Why, out of all games, he starts against Manchester United and not Swansea is beyond explanation.

    Finally, Walcott hasn’t developed as expected, but you simply can’t use this outdated argument. Like I said, he’s only 22, and has time on his hands. I guess it was the hype from a young age which has resulted into Walcott not showing enough confidence. He is a squad player, but every year he improves on aspects of his game, he’s constantly learning. Injuries have played their role, too. It’s just that lack of a footballing brain, which needs to be addressed, and I certainly don’t agree with this notion that you have it or you don’t – and that you can’t immediately pick new skills up, if you get me.

    I am not here to solely defend him, by the way.

  506. Bradys right foot

    Ffs shoe gazing, back stabbing and booing the legendary supporters of Arsenal shine again. I thought it would be tough because Utd were strongest where we are weakest at the moment, down the flanks and so unfortunately it proved.

    As for the game Bosscielney and the Ox were fantastic, TR7 was also very good but the booing of Arshavin imo was terrible. How you can expect to get a tune out of a player in the presence of so much open hostility is beyond me. As we start winning again in the next few weeks and as Sagna, LJW, Gibbs, Arteta and Gerv all return from knackdom and Africa and you start clapping and cheering again just remember what you were doing at half 5 on Sunday the 22nd January booing like a fraud. The little Russian isnt my favourite player but when he puts on the jersey he gets my full backing I make no apology for being a fan before being a critic.

  507. 12 of our EPL matches won or lost by the odd goal this season. 6 won and 6 lost. 6 losses – that’s 18 points.

    Remind me – how many points are we behind ManC?

  508. G69 & Jonny

    Why don’t you 2 get a room?

  509. Bradys right foot

    Chelsea Liverpool and ourselves have hit the wall in recent weeks but i’d argue for different reasons. Liverpool are a good counter attacking team but appear clueless when a team adopts a more measured counter punching approach against themselves. The Suarez affair and ban seems to have deflated them but i’ve no doubt they’ll improve but don’t see them finishing above us as there really struggling for goals.

    We let the Chavs off the hook but I think we can peg them back. If we can get our noses infront of them I think the obvious tensions in their dressing room will see them implode and alot of players know their moving on at the end of the year.

    As for us by the time of our next league game we should have Sagna, Wilshire and Arteta back. Providing no one else gets injured those three with what we have should be enough for fourth.

  510. @BRF
    If all goes well we might have the added boost of a JT ban to aid us on the final metres. Should see the last of Chelsea’s spirit wane if everything else goes wrong.

  511. Evil,I would rather JT played .He is a liability

  512. Bradys right foot

    Lads next stop the Villa, should be a good game and nothing better than getting one over McLeish. Suck it up, long time in the goonerverse til Sunday.

  513. Arsenalandrew – late now I know, but I got your drift, thanks.

  514. I guess we better get cracking on now. I suspect we will. We seriously need some key players to return. The imbalance from Djourou/TV on the flanks (and TV not in the centre) is obvious. He’s OK on the left, but hardly Santos, or even Gibbs (in combination with strong central backs). I thought Rosicky did an excellent job, for 70 minutes. Then we missed Arteta. Song was off-song, but well positioned on the whole. It wasn’t a very good team performance by Arsenal, but still as Frank said you could hardly get a ten bob note between the teams. Ridiculous to “blame” Wenger.

  515. john nicholson in f365 says wenger never knew and never has….what a pothead ….where does england find these journalists ffs…if you type that cr@p anywhere else in the world people will throw books at you ..how clueless

  516. CA – That is not the message behind that article though. He is not saying that Arsene is a turd manager who does not know what he is doing. He is saying that the fans have built him into some sort of demi-god, so when he inevitably makes mistakes they are highlighed even further. That’s how I read the article anyway.

    But then, I have a naturally sunny disposition on life in general 😉

  517. and to think cescara there are people that dont respect George Graham who has won cups for US as a player and a manager…potheads.

  518. GG is a legend in Arsenal’s history. Shame the way the end came about for him, but in all truth is was probably time for a change at that point anyway. I started supporting Arsenal shortly before he arrived back at the club as manager, so my early years as a supporter was 100% GG. Love the guy.

  519. andy you and me both. bit two faced to see people on here condemn the critizing of wenger opnly to do the same to Graham.

    now isnt arry redknapp in court for doing exactly the same as Graham..taking a bonus payment from a transfer of players. so arry has been caught out aswell…what about all the rest of them, nah still getting away with it. graham a theif……fukin lack of respect big time and i was suprised yogi even waded in on the graham digging the other day..tut.tut.

  520. Let’s face it duke, GG is your kind of manager.

    A few beers and a good moan. Dream night out.

    Can I come along?

  521. bob, rvp could come along aswell!

  522. AA might be a bit of a downer?

  523. The article on Wenger was terrible Andy.

    http://www.football365.com/john-nicholson/7449856/Wenger-s-Never-Been-A-Football-God

    I was ready to throw my ten cents in but saw that 2 Spurs fans had already made a decent fist of the arguments in the comments. The mind boggles.

    steveo (Tottenham Hotspur) says…
    i couldn’t disagree more… and i’m a tottenham fan… comparing the success Wenger brought with the subsequent seasons that Chelsea had is not a fair comparison… Arsenal were never a poor team, but still their success and the point haul was not a result of massive (and i mean massive) cash injection over the course of a season or two… in the case of the Invincibles, that was a team bought and developed by Wenger over a period of time within sensible (though not cheap) frameworks of a budget… The fact that they went a whole PL season unbeaten is a pretty remarkable feat, even if they had some luck, such as RVN not scoring a penalty in the last min against them… and the fact that they played the most attractive football for about a decade, despite having to battle against the likes of Chelsea, ManYoo, Liverpool, even Spurs who generally spent more is remarkable too… do not lessen his achievements by comparing them to what Chelsea did with their billions over short periods of time… in fact, i am convinced that the only thing that stopped them from winning at elast a couple more titles is the fact that all of a sudden there was that massive cash-injection-club that appeared and within a season had a squad double the size and double the price…. and to say that he was a fortunate recepient of the best defence… well, before he came to Arsenal and won the title, what good were they in terms of winning anything from the start of PL to ’98? he took them, molded them into an attractive football side, added flair, developed a style of tfootball not ever seen on these shores and best of all for Arse fans… won… so Arsene isn’t a god? gee thanks John, reasonable people really needed that clearing up…. reminds me of the ‘earth to matilda’ argument from Zoolander… maybe the one who needs convincing is you John….

    jonny bravo (Tottenham Hotspur) says…
    Whether Wenger goes or stays, he did revolutionise the image of Arsenal and has made them one of the best run clubs in the country. I will be glad to see the back of him as a Spurs supporter….But seriously, his become quagmired to his principles in recent seasons, and it probably is time for him to go. But what he has done and left behind in English football can only be applauded, no matter who you support. The invincibles season will take some time to be matched. And the way he did it was very un Man City-esque. I would love to see that team play this cash rich City team, just to give us all that dying ember of hope that you don’t have to buy success. If anyone deserves a statue outside the Emirates next to Henry, it’s Mr Wenger. But go now. Don’t do a Clough and leave it too late

  524. That was pathetic.

    I have been becoming increasingly intolerant of his moaning and sniping but that article takes the biscuit.

    Who do you think wrote it and how long did it take? Any 10 year old kid who read LG once could have come up with it in a bout 10 minutes.

    I used to like Telegraph sport. Disgraceful, lazy and ill informed doesn’t even begin to describe it.

  525. John Nicolson is a bit of a rabble rouser. He is there in football365 to stir things up. Good for a laugh every now and then, but best ignored as a serious journalistic voice.

  526. Ditto Bob – he has become unbearable with his monotonous, joyless commentaries. He always seems to take side with Arsenal’s opposition – but yes that’s a fucking awful thing to have put his name to. Dark times indeed.
    Henceforth he shall be the cursmudgeon to me.

  527. There are two statements made by two separate people that for me signify the predicament that Arsenal finds itself in at the current moment.

    “Any business runs through a cycle where the owners take care of the workers, the workers take care of the customers, and the customers take care of the owners. If any party be disgruntled in the chain, it is likely that the customers hit the owners where it hurts, and that is the pocket.”

    There never has been an incident as there was at the weekend where people for once publicly showed their anger at Arsene, and I am happy that it happened. The owners/board always take the slack when things don’t go right, but truth be told, players and staff at the club are well remunerated. I know of fans who like me wanted us to win something, there was no issue when we go a season without anything because you cannot win it every year. There is no worry from my part when we cannot win anything two or three years on the trot, because sometimes that is something that one has to go through. Arsenal however, is a huge club and there should be an issue when we go for 4, 5, 6 and possibly 7 years without winning something. The events that transpired over the weekend showed the raw emotion, the frustration that has caged under the surface for so long, and a fan base that for me has somewhat been taken for granted.

    Someone, I think it was Consolsbob asked in astonishment whether the fans have the right to go on and boo the manager. I was in astonishment that he was astonished that fans cannot show emotion over something or someone they love who they think has let them down. I was distressed that for a team in its worst position in a decade and a half would have fans that think we will profess great love to a manager and a board that messed up the summer transfer window, overlooked the January transfer window, overlooked the glaring weaknesses inherent in the team, and continue to put trust on the same lot of players that have grossly underachieved in the last three to four years. I am astounded that fans think that we should be happy with the status quo.
    Over at Blackburn, the fans know that they will not win anything this season, they knew that they would not make the Europa league slots, but they also know that they should not be in the relegation places, and they made their wishes known to their manager that if he was not going to turn things around, they did not want him leading their team.
    This is Arsenal for goodness sake, we have a manager that has had the fans trust, continues to have it. Fans have began to openly show that they want him managing the team, but that they are not happy with the current predicament, and sometimes, that frustration shows in a game. Some fans may want him out, and that is not surprising seeing that we have nothing to show for the last six seasons, and it is likely to be a 7th consecutive season without silverware, it is hardly the end of the world, in fact it should be anticipated. The manager knows what he should have known for ages, knows that in as much as most fans want him around, some of the things that have been let fly in past years may not be acceptable going forward. How that is bad for a team, any team is beyond me.

    Second comment came when I was watching John Hagee preach and he said “If you will not acknowledge that there is a problem, if you do not want to confront that problem, then do not complain about a change.”

    That second statement for me sums up some of the fans we have on this site where AW has somewhat been elevated to some sort of god: The fans who think that whatever happens, the manager cannot and will not ever be wrong. I for one have always been of the opinion that no club, no team in any sport ignore the fans, and in a lot of ways, I like, no, love AW. I love what he has brought to the club, and how he has elevated the team’s status worldwide. But I also want the team to win a trophy and I have been called myopic, doomer, spud for highlighting some of the issues and problems that his management style and projects have landed us into.

    We always complain about City, Chelsea, Real Madrid and what they have done to transfer fees and player wages. It is however hypocrisy not to think that we are a team that does not participate in the same practice of overpaying salaries. They blow their budgets while we stay within ours, but for me, the practice of paying a player for future potential is just as bad as overpaying a player salary as City and Chelsea do. Why on earth should Diaby and Denilson earn huge salaries that they have never justified nor are they likely to justify? Why would our wage bill constantly go up when the overall talent in the team goes down? Why should ticket prices be on the increase when the Club rarely ever digs into its coffers to fund transfers? Why should a team always look to make a profit over winning when the latter would grow the brand even further?

    Some poster in reply also said that what we have is a culture of “me, me, me, now.” We have not won anything in 6 seasons, and we knew that we were in a weaker position at the start of this season with Cesc refusing to play, Nasri looking to move to City and no signings imminent. People calling for a change in the way we do things, to do things in a different manner within our limits ought to be commended rather than condemned. If I were a coach, I would look to it as a challenge (a positive one at that) rather than it being a few spoilt brats complaining about what they don’t know. It is the fans that are the growth driver, it is the fans that will continue to be the growth driver not only in matchday revenue, merchandise sales, and TV revenue, but by extension, the more fans the team can get on board, the bigger the brand and the bigger commercial revenue the team will be able to command.

  528. Utter bollocks

  529. Did you read through all that?

  530. ‘and the fact that they played the most attractive football for about a decade, despite having to battle against the likes of Chelsea, ManYoo, Liverpool, even Spurs who generally spent more is remarkable too…’

    i have always been of the opinion that spuds spend more than us. and this is from a spud.

  531. Arsenal fans are wrecking the club. They don’t enjoy football anymore. Winning is all. Worst supporters in the EPL. That drivel at 9.47am goes some way to proving it.

  532. Frank | January 24, 2012 at 9:56 am

    What part????? or what parts??????

    korihikage | January 24, 2012 at 10:03 am

    true, but there is the fact that we rarely buy players when we need them, rather than when it is an absolute necessity. we have for long needed another CB to have the numbers at the back and the quality too, it only happened this year after something like 4 years. We have for long known that we needed another midfielder, known that we would need to replace Cesc, hasn’t happened. i love the man and how he does things, how he believes that we should play football, but he is not without weaknesses, and that people may not be wrong in pointing them out.

  533. acrylic

    first of all, i think wenger and the players are aware of their mistakes.

    have you ever read the post-match interviews on arsenal.com?

    i personally think that’s the first and only place you should go, rather than all the media sites.

    in case you haven’t, take a look at this for example:
    http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-we-have-to-improve-defensively

    your rebuttal will likely be:
    talking is no use if we don’t see results on the pitch.

    i will rebut: talking here is useless too. why don’t you go buy over the club. why don’t you stage a protest at colney? why don’t you go apply for wenger’s job?

    changes don’t take place overnight. i am not giving excuses, but i believe the team is working on it.

    remember the disastrous start to the season? we worked very hard to claw back up to 5th. and despite our wobbles, we are still 5th.

    it was all down to hard work. the results were showing. and now we have got a setback, and the first thing your like does is to turn on the team.

    what good does that do?

    you think you are the only one who hurts when the team doesnt win?

    do you know that i couldnt sleep for 3 nights after the swansea game? do you know that for the whole of the week between the swansea and united games, i have only been thinking of arsenal, when i am on the train, when i am walking on the street?

    don’t think we are not aware of our team’s flaws and mistakes. don’t think you are the only one who cares or the only one who knows anything.

  534. acrylic

    we have always had the numbers. maybe not the quality.

    look: i am not a fan of players like silvestre and squillaci. but i think you have to realise that they were brought in to be the 3rd choice or 4th choice centre-backs.

    and as 3rd choice, 4th choice, they are decent choices, because they have got experience.

    a big problem is that they have been called on too much due to our injury problems (which i really cannot understand). when a player is 3rd choice or 4th choice, you don’t expect them to play week in, week out. you expect them to come and fill in for 2 or 3 games. but they were playing more than that, and of course the deficit in their quality in comparison to vermaelen gets exposed.

    same thing as what happened to djourou at rightback.

    i am not the greatest admirer of squillaci and almunia. diaby as well. but when they put on the arsenal jersey, i get behind them. simple as that.

    what you can do as a favour to me is to buy over another team, and get that team to buy squillaci.

    until you do that, i will have to support squillaci if he plays.

  535. Harrogate Gunner

    Great blog.

    I am a relatively new Arsenal supporter – attracted by the way the team aspire to play football and look to develop a sustainable football club model.

    As highlighted in the blog the media comment seems rarely balanced where Arsenal are concerned – particularly evident after the poor start this season. And as AW highlighted in a press conference the media can provoke discontent in the fans.

    Yes we would like to see a striker but no one knows exactly what constraints the manager is under and the competition in terms of wages etc. for transfers in. In addition what message would it send to the likes of Ramsey (Wales Captain) and Wilshere (England star) if big midfield players were brought in. Plus who would want to see Bridge at the club – even on loan?

    The key for me is for us supporters to get firmly behind AW and the players – all is not lost and there is plenty to play for in the next 4 months.

    Further AW deserves much more respect for what he has achieved over his tenure and even in the recent trophy-less years. What must it feel like for a Liverpool fan with millions spent – still behind Arsenal.

    We need more patience and the rewards will come I am sure.

    Harrogate Gunner

  536. Harrogate Gunner

    Sorry I meant to say “the media comment rarely seems balanced”

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