Leeds FA Cup Memories

A change of pace today, with the match reports of the only two victories by Arsenal over Leeds United at home in the FA Cup. The other four have all been at Elland Road. Perversely, Leeds have only ever beaten Arsenal in any cup competition in London; twice at Wembley in the 1968 League Cup and 1972 FA Cup finals with one at Highbury.

The first one is the most recent victory in February 1983, a 2-1 win in the 4th Round 2nd replay:

This one is the first meeting of the two sides in any cup competition, from 4th March 1950 at the quarter-final stage

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on January 8, 2012, in Arsenal, FA Cup, Football, Premier League, Soccer and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 325 Comments.

  1. Second?

  2. “It was a fine goal too, and one that will always belong to Forbes”. Great match report. They don’t write them like that anymore…

  3. Jermaine Pedant

    Brilliant to read the old reports. No word of ‘speculation’ this or ‘wantaway’ that. Bet the 19 y/o who learnt a lot from 5 hours of cup football against Arsenal was scrubbing a few boots afterwards too. Bring back the birch! 🙂

  4. The team against Leeds brings back to me, happy memories of a masterly signing, in 1946, of Joe Mercer from Everton. Although in the twilight of his career, he became a pivotal player and inspirational Captain of Arsenal for (I think)8or9 years.
    The two Compton brothers also played, rare examples of mixing football and cricket, both at firstclass level

  5. I am quite surprised that we have beaten Leeds in the FA Cup only twice at home.

    Yogi, where did you get the old reports from? I am interested to know. I want to look at other past reports of Arsenal’s matches. Thanks.

  6. I am really excited by Henry’s return. Hope to see him in this match and see what he can do. He has said that his playing style now is more “Bergkamp” and not the old Vavavoom that we remember.

  7. I just don’t get the press love for City and Mancini. With their behaviour they just come across as greedy class less cunts. The kind of rich bully you had in class as a kid whith the rich dad.
    Why is it exciting when they wanna buy Rooney or anyone els? They taunt united ok but with their rich daddy united has no chance. I don’t like united one bit it but I always felt they were beatable and ok they used money but not more than we could use If we wanted.
    Why this city glorification i the press??
    Is city’s ethos and ethics what defines Britain today?? No hard work, no morality no self made man. No fair competition just money talks- the rest bend over,and if they try to fight city will buy all their players anyway and loan them out the next year for free.
    I do t get how the papers find that do appealing.

    And the sport pundits love it??

  8. Arsenal 7 Leeds 0 1979. One of the greatest performances ever seen at Highbury.Orchestrated by the genius that was LIam Brady.What a player up there with Theirry and Dennis

  9. the english premiership & F. A cup are second rate these days. the premiership has 13 teams going no where every season the likes of fulham,wigan,wba,swansea,norwich,qpr,everton,sunderland,villa,wolves blackburn,stoke. the grounds arnt even full any more at most of them. then theres the f.a cup where the big teams play second STRING teams unless they meet each other. leeds play arsenal tomorrow . whos bothered the mighty leeds will be playing a second string team . what an achievement if they win. NOOOOOOTTTTTT. our once beautiful game is no more. the players are over payed primadonnars. why is the majority of fans stil paying 1day 2days wage a week to watch this. im a big leeds fan . i recently went to leeds v millwall and had two pay 72 pound for me an my 14 year old son . i only went because it was a day of respect to gary speed. i wont be going again all of you stop paying this silly money. it shud b no more than 10 pound adults 5 pound kids. football is dead long live leeds leeds leeds BATES OUT BATES OUT !

  10. Forget the FA cup v Leeds

    Two defeats in the last 12 years against Leeds actually cost us the title.The 1-0 defeat at Elland road in 1999.Rememer Diawarra hitting the woodwork twice.He never did score for us.We lost the title by 1 pt

    And in 2003 when we lost 3-2 at Highbury having blown an 8pt lead

    Thats why so many gooners hate Leeds because those two defeats handed the title to Leeds bitterest rivals United.Can you imagine the Spuds playing their hearts out to beat United to hand the title to us? I hate Leeds

  11. jonesclarkeonenil

    James, I think you may find we played our hearts out that game for premiership survival which we achieved, not for any rivals. It was a bitter pill to swallow. I love Leeds.

  12. So our full back situation is alot like our centre back injuries last season, only worse. Who would have predicted losing 6 fullbacks in a season?

  13. Anyone who was at the home game versus Leeds in April 1981 will always hate them.

    It was the battle of Highbury & had nothing to do with events on the pitch.

    Their fans are arseholes

  14. i just feel for the sake of tradition, teams like southampton and leeds should be back in the premiership. i know leeds isnt everyone’s favourite team, but i think it is nice for geographical representation..

  15. southafricanscot

    Anyone else notice the 1950 Arsenal side included the Compton brothers, Denis and Leslie.
    Both played for Middlesex ccc Denis famously scored the winnig runs against the Aussies
    in the 1953 ashes series. Also known as the “Brylcream” boy, no hair bands or ponytails in those days. Right!! back to reality, Gunners 4 Leeds 0 on Monday!

  16. I went to my first Arsenal game in 1969 and have always hated Leeds.I remember Gary Sprake flooring Bobby Gould at the Clock end with a right hook and not even getting booked.No one can doubt in the late 60’s and 70’s Leeds had good players but their cynical dirty tactics meant they never won a game fairly.As Brian Clough said to the players when he took over at Leeds they can throw away their medals because none were won fairly.They sacked Clough but he had the last laugh winning the European cup with lowly Forest the cup Revie and Leeds wanted.Dirty Dirty Leeds are were they belong now

  17. Ok if Scholes at the age of 94 or whatever can make a comeback, we can rest easy on Henrys return 😀

  18. YW – appreciate you digging through the archives.

    Poodle – totally agree with your sentiments.

    The media’s fascination with City…..WEALTH.
    Sad statement of much of our society.

  19. 10 minutes and the manchester derby looks over.

  20. Rooney asked..chris foy gave…but of course

  21. Someone doesn’t want City to beat Manure. That was never a red card.

  22. Anirudh….can we be surprised?

  23. Not even a booking.

  24. that looked two-footed. but would never be given if it were us. the commentator was saying such tackles arent a foul 10 years ago, but now you can get sent off for it.

    hmmmm. really? seems like for our games, they still arent considered fouls.

  25. Gains….
    never a red card except in this league.

  26. I think Kompany deserved that red. It’s such shitty play that got Ramsey’s foot broken. The problem is the lack of consistency by the refs.

  27. Gains – agree with your 2 points…..

    Last season I saw Ramsey make a two footed studs up tackle and not even get a card…..the same tackle would have seen Song or Diaby see straight red.

    The laws are being interpreted too subjectively; technology would help balance out the bias and subjectivity.

  28. Mancity still playing the better football with one man less.

  29. City’s number two keeper sucks.

  30. That tackle by Kompany wasn’t even a foul. It wasn’t high and it wasn’t malicious. That was a bullshit call and every neutral would agree. That red killed what would’ve otherwise been a good game.

  31. They did not want United embarrassed again,The illusion that its still close between the two must be maintained.

  32. Kenyan, Ramsey got his leg broken by a malicious tackle that was intended to break a leg. Kompany’s tackle was legal.

    Now Manu have given even given a peno. Someone wants United to get payback for the 6-1. I have no love for City, but daylight robbery is daylight robbery.

  33. When in trouble, ManU will never walk alone. The refs will not let them down.

    It’s like someone was thinking: ok, it was 1:6 after a red card, so this time let’s send off a Man City player now to level it out and see how they cope

    So predictable.

  34. I don’t think Shawcross was malicious. Just plain stupid. Kick stupid play out of football.

  35. I love how the pundits are making all types of predictions about United even though this game ceased being a contest after the 13th minute.

  36. me thinks United wins the PL, City may win the CC and we will win the FA.
    and i dont understand what maliciousness has to do with a tackle..
    when it comes to tackles its not important why you tackle, you can hate the oponent as much as you like. its important HOW you do the tackle.
    Stupid or not. The result is the same wheter Shawcross meant it or not.

    Maybe this is the parting gift from FA to SAF? since hes about to retire soon??
    It would satisfy me immensly if City won nothing this year. We all know United will go down the drain anyway once SAF retires…

  37. i see City has a proper “second string” bench today to. full of kids. thats a bit naieve Mancici?

  38. Poodle, I was replying to G69. Manutd’s decline is taking too long for my liking. I’d be equally annoyed if it meant a mancity period of dominance!

  39. Arsesession:

    “Last season I saw Ramsey make a two footed studs up tackle and not even get a card…..the same tackle would have seen Song or Diaby see straight red.”

    Agree completely regarding the technology and ref inconsistency. Kompany did not deserve a red card. I am willing to bet that no one who remembers any bad challenges we made last season. Referee inconsistency and selective memories feed all the bias and conspiracy theories. I suspect every team in the league thinks they get the worst end of ref calls. Every team not in the top 4 certainly thinks the big boys get all the breaks.

    The Manchester derby is the only game that is both a win/win and a lose/lose. I am overjoyed no matter which team loses. No matter which team wins I will be unhappy about their success. Glass half full or glass half empty.

    I think the way the Red Manc’s sent Wellbeck on loan to other PL clubs for a couple of years is the perfect way to prepare promising young players for top 4 PL sides like us.

  40. Shawcross’s tackle was malicious, Kenyan. He is a lefty and had to kick inward to get at the ball. Had it been a high studs up tackle it wouldn’t have been as nasty. Shawcross went after the man with an intention to maim. The sad thing is that Ramsey didn’t meet that tackle with his studs up. Then we would’ve seen Shawcross leave the pitch with the oxygen mask on instead.

  41. the ref spoiled what should have being a cracking match.english refs are just useless.refs ought to be imported for fair play.

  42. ManU, the giant killers of this FA cup round.

  43. Bill, the difference between us and Stoke is that they make a bad tackle every other game. We make a bad tackle once or twice a season. Stop making it sound like Karl Henry and Paul Robinson play for us. They don’t and this false equivalence of yours is ridiculous. So do fuck off.

  44. Why in the world would the FA let them draw Man U away vs. Man City. Don’t understand why anyone would have let the 2 media and referee favorites be drawn against each other.

    Great free kick for City.

  45. By the way, Bill. Watch Vidic when he comes back. Dude, gets away with at least one horrible tackle every few games not to mention all the dirty shit he gets away with like shirt pulls, obvious hand balls etc..

  46. G69:

    I agree that Stoke and Wolves make a lot more bad challenges then us or any other teams in the league.

  47. What is studs up????

    Sliding tackles are part of the game and legal. No way to keep your studs down!

    Studs up……feet over the ball or directed at the opponents feet – ankle – leg – etc.

    From my view, Kompany made a proper tackle. Took the ball with the inside of his ankle
    and neither foot looked to make contact with ManU player.

    Ace is right – sending off spoiled the match.

  48. @Gains
    I agree about Vidic. The staff he gets away with is incredible. In any other team he would be an average defender at best.

  49. Bill, I sort of agree with you. I’d prefer tennis type seedings based on how teams finished their respective leagues in the previous season.

  50. Losing Vidic has been a big blow for United. They have actually had worse injury luck then we have.

  51. Kenyon:

    I like that better too. Some people love the idea of the underdog making a long run against the big boys.

  52. i just cannot belive they took back Scoles! It says alot about their financial situation.

  53. any other year they would have bought a top class midfielder in the summer.

  54. That should’ve been yellow at most. It was reckless, but there was no danger whatsoever for Nani as Kompany’s feet were on the ground etc. etc. etc.
    Funny thing is, that when the next player commits a tackle like that on our guys it will be “play on” or “advantage” and sure as hell no card of any colour given.

  55. Aguero – only City player that seems to want something out of this match.

  56. Not only Vidic, SV. Rooney got away with a nasty elbow last season eventhough it was shown on video and he could’ve been banned retroactively like Song recently did for a bullshit stamp on Barton. When’s the last time one of our players did something as nasty as what Rooney and Vidic get away with on a routine basis? Give me a fucking break.

  57. Valencia could of easily been given a penalty. Decisions like that are almost completely random. That would have been a foul on any other part of the pitch. When the refs are inconsistent everyone remembers the ones against them and forgets the ones that go in their favor.

    I know we would never have out bid City in this case but if we could get just one player like Aguero it could instantly change us from a good team to a great team.

    Uniteds defense has gone down the tubes with all the injuries and loss of EVDS.

    Draw with a replay so each team has to play an extra game would be the best result of all.

  58. Poodle @ 2:22:

    They thought they had Cleverly and didn’t need to buy anyone this summer.

  59. @Gains
    Don’t forget the karate kick by Evra two seasons ago against us. Sagna’s kit was ripped but it was obviously “nothing” in the eye of the ref.

  60. I think Cleverly has been out most of the season because of a bad tackle by a Liverpool player.

  61. So I guess Foy is not biased for missing that blatant handball.

  62. Questionable handball in the box by United. Ball to hand or hand to ball. I doubt that the ref or the linesmen had any idea what really happened. Those type of calls are totally random. How a fan views that type of play depends completely on which team you support.

  63. And yet another sparklingly anonymous contribution from Nasri.

    I wonder if he misses playing as part of a team rather than a hotch potch?

  64. Not a 2nd half that ManU will want to remember.

  65. Evil:

    The way that play worked Foy would have been shielded from seeing what happened to the ball by Jones’ body. No way he could have seen that without X-ray vision. Even if he had seen it then you have to question ball to hand or hand to ball. The system is totally screwed because everything about it leads to inconsistency.

    10 years ago before multi angle replays no one other would have had any idea what happened. I think thats the biggest reason for the feeling that the refs have gone downhill. In the past no one would have any idea the ball hit Jones’ arm. Today we know exactly what happens on every play even when the ref has no chance to see it. Plays look completely different depending on which of the multiple camera angles you see it from.

  66. Mancini cost city the game. He should have put on Savic the moment Kompany saw red.

  67. I thought Nasri played alot better in the last 10 mins of the game…

  68. turned on just in time to see Na$ri get subbed off. Out of the CL, out of the FA Cup. Enjoy your millions, Samir.

    Good result for us. It stretches the ManU squad and means more disgruntled millionaires sitting on the City bench.

  69. That wasn’t Evra. It was Ferdinand. He did that twice last season and got no more than a talking to, if I recall.

    Mancini didn’t cost them the game. Chris Foy did. They got to within one goal while down to ten men and had Manure pinned in for good spells. If Kompany wasn’t red carded Manure would’ve lost.

  70. Best result for us would have been a draw and a replay.

  71. Loved how Na$ri ducked out the way of utds second goal….anonymous…a passenger throughout and it has to be the best bit of business Wenger has ever done.

  72. I guess Chris foy was the FA’s way of making up for the cock up with the draw..united should have got the lowest league opposition at OT but got city at etihad instead..and lo Chris Foy..

    And we also always seem to forget who the head of the referees association is..MIKE RILEY!!

  73. I agree bill, clear hadball by Phil Jones. Dived in the box to get his body (including the arm) to block the ball. Penalty for me

  74. G69:

    That was a crappy red card. Some sort of challenge system with video replays is the only answer. They overturn lots of decisions in American football and tennis. Last night in the New Orleans/Detroit football game they over turned a touchdown because of the video replay. Slows down the game a little but certainly helps the refs get the calls right and helps decrease the inconsistency and bad calls.

  75. How desperate must utd be to bring back an old player a…tut tut..

  76. well atlest those that bet on a United victory will get their money worth….

  77. and Bill even tough Cleverly is good hes hardly “world class” is he?
    Had this been two or three years ago United would have gone out and bought a top top midfielder and let Cleverly continiue his development. Infact they would have given Nasri a offer he could not resist….Nasri would have been great in the United team, luckily for us he went to City where he is not helping anybody do anything.
    City would be fine without him there, but United would have really become a better team with Nasri pulling the creative strings.

  78. mj @ 3:04:

    No way the ref could have seen that handball. Jones’ body would have blocked his view. Valencia was tripped in the box which should have been a penalty for United so if the penalties are equal then United would still have won. Kompany got a crap red card, and on and on and on and on with the bad decisions. The whole system is impossibly screwed with no chance to fix it other then video replays.

  79. heh the worst thing for united is that even with the ref on their side and one more player they did not convince at all.
    They will loose in a fair game thats for sure…

  80. It’s not ‘ball to hand’ or ‘hand to ball’ that matters. It’s whether the player gains an advantage by a handball.

    Same mistake being peddled time and again by commentators.

    Ditto the ‘malicious’ tackle. Doesn’t matter if it is or not, it’s whether it’s a reckless one.

    Even that twat Savage understands that.

  81. @ consolsbob
    Good point, but the handball has to be deliberate as well, which is where the “ball to hand/hand to ball” debate comes in.

    @ poodle
    Either they couldn’t find one, or they didn’t have the money to buy the ones that were available – welcome to the real world, Manure!
    Regarding your earlier point, it is rebarbative watching the media worship of Money City, but the tendency to genuflect before wealth is a trait that runs throughout society. Throughout thousands of years of mankind’s history, the accumulation of wealth had tended to reflect that the individual had qualities associated with high status in the group, qualities which were to be admired/respected – cunning, intelligence, determination, leadership, organisational and forward planning etc. so we are hard-wired to admire/fear/respect those with wealth. This inbuilt reaction doesn’t distinguish between those who have earned/accumulated wealth by their own efforts and those who have not, presumably because when we developed it, there was no real difference. Or it was built on a pre-existing tendency to defer to the group leader.
    That’s my theory. What do you reckon?

  82. Fungunner i wanted manure to lose as i loathe that team with a passion but after the game ended i said almost the same things to my friends.Less and less trophies for Nasri to win considering he left for trophies, the irony!!

    The ref definitely ruined the game but Mancity can stand proud as they didnt do too badly considering how early they got the red which i thought was unfair.

  83. I understand why people are saying it is not a red but he did not have any need to use both feet – don’t invite the ref to follow the idiotic laws to which he is a victim. That said it was, yet again, another masterclass in cock-awful refereeing.
    Who cares anyway – a magnificent game to watch in terms of needle, pace, controversy.

  84. Right on all points Fun.

  85. Fungunner – it does not have to be deliberate. If your arm is hit and denies the ball from going in the net it’s still a pen.

  86. Cbob.

    I think most everyone knows the hand ball rule even that is not easy to call. If every hand ball and foul that occurred everywhere else on the pitch was called a penalty when the same thing happened in the box there would be multiple penalties every game which would be a mess. The system is totally messed up and its essentially impossible to be consistent we now know just how screwed up it is because we see every play in ultra slow motion from multiple angles

  87. ~ Not that I am suggesting that this was what happened in that instance.

  88. @ firstlady
    I only saw the last 15 minutes – in snatches, at that, but to come back with two goals having been down to 10 men is a good effort. But still, aha ha ha ha, as IrishGray would say.

  89. That was definitely a penalty. City must have felt hard done by, even mancini on the sidelines looked on unbelievably.Atleast it shows that we are not the only ones who suffer the bad decisions.

  90. Fungunner

    That os some serious shit you are laying down there! I agree too. Capitalism is the only system we are allowed to follow because the tiny minority with all the wealth want to keep things as they are. It is crazy to think we still live in a world full of hunger, disease etc. And then we are expected to respect footballers, managers and clubs who get paid obscene amounts and spend even more simply trying to win a pot or 2.

    Viva la revolution!

  91. @fistlady lol then they know how it is to be arsenal 🙂

  92. The first 8 minutes of the Peterboro’ game were a delight.

    No commentator telling us what to think, just crowd noise.

    It was like watching a game of football live. Being there.

  93. I went to Elland Rd last season and if I didnt previously, then I certainly do now have no love for that club, or its fans. Bunch of moronic thugs. There were hundreds of blokes, some who were probably grand fathers, all spoiling for a fight. Fucking idiots.

  94. Poodle Man Utd had at least two more players – Na$ri was totally irrelevant. If anything his contributions were in the negative. A fat, greedy, pointless cunt.

  95. @Dexter
    Will your revolution stop hunger and deceases?

  96. I think you are spot on with your analogy FG. People like to be associated with wealth in the deeply subconscious hope that some of that largesse will come their way. I think that has a lot to do with some of the attitudes of the average footie fan. Living within your means is not sexy, in fact it’s a bit socialist and that is associated with a bye-gone era. We are still deep enthralled to the ‘greed is good’ mantra.

    @ poodle | January 8, 2012 at 3:13 pm – I was convinced at the time that Na$ri was looking for a move to manure, but fortunately Arsene was not willing to sell to them and they could not afford to buy.

  97. @ Dexter
    Ha ha just riffin’! Didn’t mean to get heavy. But yeah, agree – respect footballers for their talent, dedication etc but not for their millions.

    @ Jonny
    The handball does have to be deliberate.

    From the Laws of the Game:
    Direct Free Kick
    …A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player
    commits any of the following three offences:
    • holds an opponent
    • spits at an opponent
    • handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his
    own penalty area)

    And obviously if it happens in the penalty area it is a penalty kick.

  98. SV;

    Hunger yes, easy. But ‘deceases’? Not sure man. Thats a tricky one.

  99. ManU are poor it’s beyond believe. Even with the ref in their pocket they were lucky to get away with it. How do they manage every year to stay at the top? Any idea?

    And I’m not English, so here’s the question: why did someone become a Sir for winning a couple of cups for a local football club?

  100. Fucking dickhead – http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2012/01/05/nicklas-bendtner-arrested-after-hotel-brawl-police-confirm-115875-23681244/
    I like to think none of this bullshit would have happened under our crest.

  101. Bendtner is doing his best to earn a transfer……. To sCUNThorpe.

  102. @fun, nice post you are probably right, there is something els though, that bothers me profoundly about City, just cant put my finger on it yet. I think its their arrogance and their “we got money, anything can be bought, and we will buy it” attitude. And the fact that people love it!they love the attitude and think City are clever for doing it.

    And i must say i am really happy they went out. I know, i know the ref helped United but hey,maybe the ref put his love for Untied higher than the million he was offered as a bribe from City?
    A team that ended on 9 points more than they should have last year just cannot be clean. If it was not for those 9 extra points they would have ben outside top 4. It was an idependent think thank that found that out by analyzing all the matches from last year.
    United-Arsenal in the final! We will win ofc, we learned our leasson last year against birmingham, we will be underdogs and we always preform best as underdogs.

  103. @ Passenal
    “I was convinced at the time that Na$ri was looking for a move to manure, but fortunately Arsene was not willing to sell to them and they could not afford to buy.”

    Could well be. It would certainly have been a better fit for him. But he definitely did have contact with City vey early in the negotiation process. Still ultimately he chose money anyway, which makes his protestations about not being greedy sound rather unconvincing.

  104. i think bendtners world collapsed when he realized he was not the best striker in the world after all.

  105. @Dexter
    The last revolution in this country happened in the 17-th century, so it’s forgivable not to remember.

    On the continent, the 20-th century was full of revolutions resulting in immeasurable human suffering. But I’m sure you have something different in mind.

  106. @fg and brigs us right back to you and passenals ‘greed is good’ mantra.
    Imagin if he does not make the french squad for EC… From french player of the year to “rich but nobody” in a little over a year.

  107. SV

    It was a fucking joke dude!

    Although I am all in favour of ridding the world, not just this country, of Capitalism, multi-nationals, conglomorates, all that shit man.

  108. FG – you are surely right, by the book. Never read the thing but, the way the law is practised is so different to the words on the page. This is not an attempt to claim I’m right by the way, just an observation!
    What I mean is if your arm is sticking out and the ball is struck into it (not deliberate) thus preventing it from going into the net it is, almost always, given. Whereas if your arms are close to your body it is less likely. None of this is in the rule book (as far as my – admitted lack of – knowledge goes) but as unwritten rules go, I think it is largely consistently enforced in this manner.
    It is weird, many laws in the book are open to interpretation but some are ignored to the point of being obsolete (6 second rule, infringement in the box for penalties).

    Come to think of it, I honestly cannot think of the last time I saw a legal penalty!


  109. Jonny

    Well, if you follow Arsenal then you definitely wont have seen a penalty. We arent allowed to get any these days.

  110. @poodle | January 8, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    sorry didn’t see this – we posted at the same time. I think their arrogance and sense of entitlement is distasteful, as you say, and I think it arises from the same conditioning that causes others to look up to them. being rich and having the power to blow anyone else out of the water financially has gone to their heads and they have forgotten that they did not earn their money. Or rather the money they are being given – which the owners didn’t earn, either!

  111. @ poodle
    And yes, ManUre-Arsenal final would be great, as long as we thrash them, obviously! 🙂

  112. @ Dexter

    Absolutely 100% true unfortunately..

  113. Dex – I told you you were funny. 🙂

  114. You are right there jonny.

    I was saying to consolslel last week that I couldn’t rmember the last time I witnessed a referee calling a penalty correctly.

  115. Cbob – it’s become a pet obsession of mine – watching how many players encroach. With the powers of sky+ I can pause and count them. I’d say the average is about 4-5.

    I’m a sad man – I know.

  116. Bill, you don’t need video replay for a call like Kompany’s. The problem with calls like those is a lack of common sense. Kompany didn’t go for Nani’s legs and he didn’t go in high either. The referee basically gave him a red for intent eventhough the tackle ended up being clean and he won the ball. If intent merits a red card, then every single high kick would count as a red card.

    By the way, this is the second soft sending off that Manu has profited from in less than a month. The other one was a phantom elbow from a Wigan player on Michael Carrick. If you and others like you refuse to acknowledge referee bias after such displays, I suggest you look a bit closer. I’m not even asking for parity. I would be satisfied with referees merely protecting our players when they’re getting the shit kicked out of them.

  117. Cbob

    Saw one called today against Junior’s team, unusual to see shirt-pulling penalised but fair play to the official, he got it spot on. Not that you’d have thought so by the comments coming from the touchline…

  118. Fungunner @ 3:25:

    Everything you say is true about wealth and power. Nothing we can do to change thousands of years of human nature yet we complain endlessly about something that is impossible to change. Best use of our time and energy is to stop worrying about things we can’t change and concentrate on fixing the things we can. Obsessing about things we can’t change just diverts our energy and time from things we can fix.

  119. The scum also got denied a clear penalty later on – the ref was incompetent not biased.

  120. I was just abotu to post, “Sunderland 1-0 up, think they’ll get another one”, and they just have! ha ha

  121. Funny, I take it you’re not a fan of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous or Kim Kardsahian, Paris Hilton, etc. if you were to watch the republican primary debates and listened to these American presidential hopefuls going on about job creators you’d throw up all over the place.

  122. Bill

    What a load of bollocks that is. With that attitude then we’d be truely fucked, even more than we are.

    How sad to be so defeatist like that. By simply going along with things is how fuckers like the Nazis got in, because the less vocal majority are too complacent, or bought off to bother to make a stand or just discuss it and try and educate narrow minded fuckwits.

    And no, it isnt a waste of anyones energy FFS you are on a blog chatting shit all day, if that isnt a waste of your time then fuck knows what is. And if someone as thoughtful and inteliigent and caring as Fungunner wants to take the time to at least bring these things into the arena, things that never get spoken about in the broader media as they are all in cahoots with this shite unfair system, then I for one applaud her.

    Right I am stepping off my soap box now.

  123. Dexter, have you not realised that Bill will not have a word said against his precious mancs? They know how to spend money and that’s all that seems to matter.

  124. Looks like the Chavs are through so fingers crossed they get Manure in the draw; a grim prospect for actual lovers of the game everywhere but a handy opportunity to see which of them are fading furthest and fastest … Personally think Chelsea the more likely to suffer if they are drawn together as they have the double-handicap of ancient squad and youthful (but seemingly useless) manager hellbent on ‘resting’ their best players.

    Can’t say I’m hugely looking forward to sharing the stadium with the flat-capped whippet lovers on Monday night – real little Englanders if ever … on the other hand it should be more va-va-voom than va va-ee by gum.

    Oh a do like a spot of stereotyping of a Sunday afternoon.

    Especially at the expense of a club that spent decades cultivating a reputation even the likes of Millwall would baulk at.

  125. Passenal

    I know, especially now that the chavs are on the wane, United are his numero uno once more! Sorry Bill, couldnt resist man. 🙂

  126. @ G69
    It’s Dexter who you should be talking to really, but I can tell you I’m not at all interested in the “famous for being famous” crowd, whatever the flimsy reason for their fame. And interestingly – to me, anyway – there’s another case of “transferred merit” (as I am now going to name my theory). Fame – ie being spoken about, having large and prominent images of yourself, used to be associated with glory which was derived from real merit or achievement and rightly commanded respect. But many of us react to the trappings of mere fame as if they were derived from glory, which is why these boring no-marks and their agents can make a killing.

    @ Dexter
    basically, yep. And thanks for the kind words.

  127. Just read the BBC preview of the Leeds game and boy have they got some lazy arsed hacks on the payroll. Apparantly our last 2 results were a disapointing draw va Wolves and a 1-0 loss to Fulham.

  128. Oh I cant get enough of the Kardashians and Paris Hilton is the Helen Keller of our age.

  129. Passenal: “I think you are spot on with your analogy FG. People like to be associated with wealth in the deeply subconscious hope that some of that largesse will come their way. I think that has a lot to do with some of the attitudes of the average footie fan. Living within your means is not sexy, in fact it’s a bit socialist and that is associated with a bye-gone era. We are still deep enthralled to the ‘greed is good’ mantra.”

    I think the average footie fan is just following society’s lead. Most people are materialistic and have no regard for money. That’s why the majority of people don’t blink twice when a player goes for 30 or 40 million pounds.

    John Steinbeck once said that Americans don’t see themselves as poor, they see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. Since England’s culture is so influenced by America, I’m afraid that the disease of thinking you’re going to be rich one day just because has taken a foothold in England now.

  130. FG, you are on fire today! Another theory that hits the spot. It’s a big part of what is wrong with modern society. The less you have to work for things, the more attention you seem to get. Perhaps it’s the secret hope of many of money just falling into your lap, like a lottery win, or a dodgy billionaire buying your football club so that he can launder his ill-gotten gains!

  131. Completely agree, Funny. You know society is on the decline when Kim Kardashian is better known than the prime minister of England or the President of the United States. Bread and circuses indeed.

  132. True Gains, it’s all about ‘getting rich quick’, and the quicker the better it seems!

  133. @ Gainsbourg69 | January 8, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    That Steinbeck quote hits the nail on the head and explains a lot!


    @ Passenal | January 8, 2012 at 5:13 pm
    I’m having to have a little sit down now.

  134. If transferred merit were as a result of something more than just a sex tape it wouldn’t be as bad.


  135. The greatest tragedy of the American people is they were sold a dream. It’s a terrible dream to start with (championing obscene wealth as a worthy goal in and of itself) but it’s a pretext which has allowed one of the greatest and most vulgar disparities of wealth distribution the world has ever witnessed. As if the rich needed any help in trampling on the poor and serving themselves.

  136. What’s funny, Pass, is that the religious nutters always blame liberalism for the decline of our civilization while ignoring the fact that it’s greed, lust and other sins that have brought our civilization down. But who do they always back in politics? The side that sees the ten commandments as an impediment to becoming rich. It’s funny in an “I wish the whole edifice would implode on it’s own weight” sort of way.

  137. I love that Lily Allen tune man.

  138. Paulie Walnuts

    Foy just did as he was told with the sending off. Whilst the likes of Rooney, Ferdinand & Giggs are around Man Ure will always have a chance.

    They`re not quite up to Barca`s `in the ref`s ear` standards but they`re not far off.

  139. Gains

    Ive been watching a fair bit of the Republican debates and they are hideous, truly vile souless corporate backed twats toadying up to the far right Christian groups, anti-gay anti-abortion, pro-gun, pro-Israel fundamentalists.

    The only one who seems anywhere half human is Ron paul and the media refuse to give him any repsect or credit and he will probably be the subject of some cooked up sleaze job anyway.

  140. Paulie

    Until Mike Riley is removed from his job as refs’ chief, then this conspiratorial shit will carry on unabated man. Good job too!

  141. No one was sold a dream, Jonny. What happened in the US is that the poor, white Americans were given a green light to feel superior due to the color of their skin. And when your poor it’s easy to cope with it as long as someone tells you that you’re better than them blacks or them Mexicans.

    Look at American politics today. Instead of blaming the rich people who run our government, most of these poor whites blame blacks and immigrants even though they had fuck all to do with the economic collapse. Sadly, thanks to Margaret Thatcher and the Tories your country is heading in the same direction. Why do you think the BNP is even relevant in British politics?

  142. Gains

    Britain has been following that script since the 1980s thanks primarily to Thatcher and her divisive politics.

  143. She sold off all the \nationalised industries, gave the banks free reign by making them self regulatory, wiping out the manufacturing industries and trying to kill of the unions. Selling council houses meaning their is no affordable housing and the areas that were once working class have been gentrified, pushing out their original inhabitants and all the while blaming all the ills on immigrants, single mothers, loony left wing councils. Oh boy, as Bill Hicks would’ve said, she sucked Satan’s cock alright.

  144. Ron Paul is just as evil and disgusting, Dex. The shit he peddles is just as racist and xenophobic as any of the polished turds in the republican party. Next time you hear Ron Paul talking about letting states make decisions think about those black students in Alabama having to be escorted by the national guard just to attend school. If it were left up to the states we’d still have Jim Crow in most of American south. These people’s ancestors went to war because they thought slavery should’ve been a states rights issue.

  145. Thats enough politics! Back to football, the FA Cup draw’s on now….

  146. I dunno Gains, I dont agree with alot of his shit, but then again, he is a Republican! But I think he is definitely the lesser of several evils man and I also think he has been set up and some of his shit has been blown out of proportion. But I aint aware of his background as much as you man.

  147. Liverpool vs Manchester United
    Arsenal or Leeds vs Aston Villa
    MK Dons or QPR vs Chavs
    Watford vs Spuds

  148. Some interesting draws there and quite a lot of all Premier League ties as well. If we beat Leeds and Villa we could be well set this year.

  149. @dex is that how it is or how you want it to be?

  150. I know that all too well, Dex. Her and Ronny Raygun read from the same script. They played on the racist instincts of the majority of the populace in order to pull off the biggest transfer of wealth in history. What’s funny is seeing the people who voted for them walking around like slapped arses wondering where it all went wrong.

  151. TO:
    The Karma department,
    Cup football section,
    the Universe

    To whom it may concern
    I hereby unreservedly retract all gloating or quasi-gloating remarks or expressions of Schadenfreude made by me on the subject of Money City’s exit from the FA Cup as I have just remembered that we have not played Leeds yet and I do not wish anyone from your department to sneak up behind me and bite me on the bottom.

    Yours, etc

    FunGunner (Arsenal fan)

  152. oh well, could be worse and could be better, abit like Milan really…

  153. Poodle

    Thats the actual draw mate.

  154. Tottenham will cruice to the semis though. Would be great if we managed to beat both Leeds and Villa to meet Spuds in the semies and win.

  155. Gains it matters not what I post you’ll always look for an opportunity to snipe.

    The Americans have been sold a dream – the dream that through hard work and thrift anyone can make it big. I’m not saying it’s as simple as that or refuting your points which i agree with but are largely a non sequitur anyway.

  156. You need a stamp for that letter Fungunner?

  157. Dex, what worries me is that a hell of a lot of kids prescribe to Paul’s views.

  158. FunGunner | January 8, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    You can add my name to that letter!

  159. Poodle

    Don’t discount Watford just yet man. They are on a bit of a roll and playing well. No reason they couldn’t get a result.

  160. Ron Paul is a cowardly racist – it’s shocking he came as far as he did before this was fully exposed.

    The race for the republican candidacy is thoroughly satisfying embarrassment. If this is the best of the right-wing collective they might as well save millions and not even bother running any opposition at all.

  161. Great letter FG!

  162. We are, according to those reliable Skysports sources, in for Eric Abidal and Salomon Kalou.

  163. WE can either wait till the summer and get Kalou for nothing, or pay for his services now. Hmmm my money’s on the latter for some reason.


    Where is this proof of Paul being a racist? Seemed to me he was getting a good smeering as his popularity increased. The fact he was not cosying up to the corporate lobby and was seen as anti-Israel means he would have a shit load of enemies. Just saying.

  164. Former even!

  165. I’m not sniping, Jonny. I’m just telling you how it all came to be. Once the poor whites were persuaded to think that the rich were on their side against the blacks, then it was fait accompli. They didn’t need to be sold anything since they were in line. Therefore, if a rich guy told them they too could be rich, they believed it because they were under the impression that they were in it together because of the race thing. To this day you still hear murmurings about race traitors and what not. It’s and always will be about racism. the nonsense about a meritocracy are just fairy tales for those whose racist reflexes have dulled. In fact, if you look at the primaries, most of what the politicians from the right talk about has a racist agenda.

  166. We are, according to those reliable Skysports sources, in for a total of 91 players.Up until now,that is.

  167. For any John Carpenter fans – this is a marvellous piece of claymation.

  168. None of which I disagree with Gains – you are preaching to the choir – it’s still a non sequitur.

  169. Not seen us linked with anyone on Sky George, apart from Henry and Bridge. You are probably confused as they often go through the paper transfer rumours as well. That’ll be where you got yourself in a muddle, then again you still think Coronation Street is a documentary don’t you?

  170. He wrote a series of letters 20 odd years ago Dex. One of which said 95% of black american males in Washington were criminals. I forget the content of the others but it was shameful stuff.

  171. Maggy Thatcher is a legend. What a woman!

    Btw, the bosses of some of the trade unions at her time were marxists dreaming of a socialist revolution in England. I wish I had such enemies.

    My favorite Maggy’s quote: The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.

    Interestingly, Maggy seems to be more respected abroad than in England. I assume what she did here was not painless, albeit necessary.

    With 2 games at home (if we win tomorrow) a good FA cup run is a possibility. But we have to get rotation right to go as far as we can. Henry on the bench will come in handy.

  172. Dex, has never said the word nigger explicitly. it’s the idea about states rights I was talking to you about earlier. To most young people he doesn’t seem racist, but to older people like my parents he sounds exactly like the bigots who opposed the civil rights movement. Also, that newsletter he wrote was incredibly racist. It was his newsletter and he signed off on it. You have to be naive to think he wasn’t aware of that.

  173. Gainsbourg69 | January 8, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    It doesn’t take much (a little recession for example) for the racist agenda, which is always just below the surface, to raise it’s ugly head again.

  174. I have nothing but respect for Maggie Thatcher. She did more to harm the status quo than any Marxist union boss. If it wasn’t for her people wouldn’t know how vile the rich could really be.

  175. Jonny

    Like I said, sounds awfully like an all American smear job. I saw him having to refute some bullshit supposedly written by one of his assistants in a pamphlet from years back. He is getting well and truley stitched up, not surprising given how comparatively independent he is.

  176. On the surface Ron Paul seems like the only Republican candidate you could vote for. Integrity, stands by his word, against war. Unfortunately the deeper you dig the more you see that he might very well be the worst of the bunch. At least candidates like Bachman or Perry seem like half-jokes, but with Paul you know that he is serious and passionate about those things he is saying and that makes him dangerous. In fact, when I was younger I kind of sympathised with him because he seemed like the Republican Dennis Kucinich. Didn’t know how wrong I was back then.

  177. True, Pass. What better way to keep the commoners distracted than some good old xenophobia?

  178. SV

    You couldnt be more wrong. What she did was neither necessary or in the greater good. It was all short term self serving, knowing full well the shit would hit the fan after her tenure was up.

    In short, she is an evil bitch, the fact you admire her, is sad, truely appalling.

  179. But she fooled them into thinking they could get a slice of the pie too and that made them compliant.

  180. SV – Thatcher is a war criminal and thoroughly heartless bitch. She is responsible, along with Reagan, for many of the world ills today. The great monetary divide, that is now at its worst, and the financial meltdowns all started from the deregulation that encouraged.

    If you love Thatcher – you support the interest of big business over the lives of human beings and you excuse the fact that she is a bona fide murderer.

  181. If they really go ahead with those plans for a state funeral for Thatcher, that’s basically a huge F you to a majority of the British population.

  182. Evil

    If we had teams of people whose sole job was to dig and find shit in our pasts I doubt many of us would come out smelling of roses.

    Paul is getting stitched up, I have very little in common with his ideologies, but once again, someone who might have made a real difference will be curtailed because he has made powerful enemies. Its funny how Gains was waxing lyrical about the rich running tings when we have someone here 1000000000 times more likely to do something that isnt purely in the vested interests of multinationals, corporates etc.

  183. Dex, Ron Paul has been a fringe candidate most of his political life. Back when he was a kook with no hope in hell to ever reach the presidency, what he said never really mattered. He pandered to racists and white nationalists because he was making a decent profit out of it. Ever since he entered the mainstream about a decade ago he cleaned up his act, but his past is right there. With regards to the smear job, that’s just American politics. Obama has had to deal with nutters questioning his citizenship just because he’s African American. What’s beefing done to Paul is child’s play in comparison.

  184. @Dex
    I agree that Paul is often getting the short-end of the stick, which is probably the one thing admirable about thim: he stands by his positions no matter what and even if it means that he will always be the “unpopular” candidate.

  185. On a brighter note, Neil Warnock has been sacked.

  186. Gains – “I have nothing but respect for Maggie Thatcher”???

    Please tell me that was meant as insincerely as I suspect.

  187. Gains

    Obviously I am viewing this Ron Paul shizzle from afar and am not up to speed, just going by what I have seen online and things like Jon Stewart oh and the wonderful Fox ‘News’!! 🙂

    If he is a racist then he’s a c*nt, end of. However, I saw him speak many times and he just refused to cow tow to any group; religious, far right, anti-gay etc and what he has spoken about the war and financial situation (not just recently, but years ago) was spot on. He just seemed ‘normal’ if that is possible for someone trying to be president of the US! I mean, what kind of ego would you need to want to do that shit?

  188. What difference will Paul make, Jonny? He wants to dissolve the only protection us citizens have against predatory corporations. Who do you think would benefit from the government getting out of the way?

  189. Sorry. I meant Dex.

  190. Dex – great news. Bizarre, paranoid, aggressive arsehole.

    With the money they have QPR can do better.

  191. Gains

    I dont want a Republican in the white house, but Paul is head and shoulders above the brain dead sell out fake tan, bouffanted teeth whitened card board cut outs running for the candidancy.

  192. I loathe Thatcher, Jonny. Anyone who prescribes to a view of the world where an ndividual is greater than society, like Ron Paul does, doesn’t deserve to walk amongst humans.

    That is wonderful news, Dex. I’m looking forward to seeing Warnock as far away from the premier league as possible.

  193. Hmmm Mark Hughes to get the QPR job I reckon.

  194. What has Mark Hughes ever done to warrant his name being linked with these jobs? He would just be a temporary fix until they find someone better as has happened with every team he has managed!

  195. well thats what you get Warnock when you claim the reason why Arsenal scores is because RvP cheats!

  196. Ha. Hughes. Lol. From one paranoid twatstick to another.

    One day big clubs will realise that the best use of big money is a brilliant manager.

    The best signing The Arsenal ever made does not play on the pitch.

  197. Passenal

    True, but when a manager gets the sack, its because the owner, chairman has someone lined up and Hughes is the only out of work manager I could think of!

  198. Paul may be less loathsome than the fake tan panderers, but he’d be way more dangerous to our economy and our way of life. The guy is a walking, talking emodiment of Ayn Rnad’s philosophy. And if you know anything about Rand you’d know that she was a stunted human who never grew out of her childish selfishness. Ron Paul’s beliefs appeal to fourteen year olds who don’t like their parents telling them what do. For anyone who believes in humanity he’s a disaster.

  199. Poodle

    Thats right man.


    Did you send the Karma dept a letter regarding Warnock too? 🙂

  200. Paulie Walnuts


    Didn`t Ron Paul almost get the short end of Bruno`s stick ?

    I may have felt a little sorry for Warnock – until his rant about RVP

    Joey Barton as player manager ?

  201. My greatest hero in football is Neil Warnock and in Politics it is Mrs.Thatcher.

    You lefty Wengerits need to start appreciating a good thing when you see it.
    Neither of them are black or gay so what is not to admire?

  202. Now I have seen it all .Read this peeps

    “This summer could see Arsenal offer Real Madrid star striker Robin Van Persie in exchange for Gonzalo Higuain and Karim Benzema. Van Persie has been linked with a move away from the club for over a year now, and a move could take place during the summer transfer window.
    Madrid are set to be very interested in Van Persie, who Arsenal rate at £70m, and are set to come in with an offer later this year. Arsenal on the other hand will want to find replacements for the Dutchman, and could look to sign Higuain and Benzema in exchange for the goal machine.
    Both Higuain and Benzema are struggling to get a consistent run in the Madrid side, and have both been linked with a move to the Premier League. The pair would suit the Gunners nicely, and would be ideal replacements for RVP.
    Higuain and Benzema are set to be worth around £35m each, so if Arsenal were to let Van Persie leave to Madrid, they would be getting their £70m in the form of two class players”

  203. Rand was fascinating, divisive, influential and dangerous – I often wondered if it was in part the product of being half American, half Russian. Regardless she describes exactly what you abhor – rejecting ethical altruism (try not be a cunt). Atlas Shrugged is one of the most influential societal shapers but relatively unknown. Horrible but fascinating stuff.

  204. I knew I would touch a nerve with my praise for Thatcher.

    Before her, many thinkers were dealing with economic inefficiencies of socialism. The problem is, you can always manipulate statistics and influence professional opinions, so the pragmatic attack on socialism is not always effective.

    Maggy’s criticism of socialism, on the other hand, was also from the moral side of the argument. This kind of argument can reach more people and is more effective long term. That’s why she was winning elections, and that’s why she will be always be an influential figure among conservatives.

    On the other hand, the fact that we are talking about it now shows that her ideological fight was not completely won (who expected it after the fall of the Soviet union?).

    Frankly, I would rather avoid this topic in an Arsenal blog, but to leave it look like an unquestioned left wing stream is too much for me.

  205. Jeeez George where did you find that garbage?

  206. WTF are you people talking about .Is it some sort of code that Northern Boys just don’t get?

  207. Dexter .
    What ever the fuck that is!

  208. SV

    You have no argument, she was a vile reprehensible evil bitch and has caused so much pain and suffering that it is still felt today. Her and Reagan have so much to be held accountable for.

    Only a self serving, uncaring fascist would find any redeeeming qualities in the cunt.

    She sold off the nationalised industries, wiped out the manufacturing industry, meaning now we rely on customer service and call centre industries, she allowed council properties to be sold off for peanuts, she cosied up to dictators, meaning her son to make millions in arms deals, she created the idea that individualism is a better way to be than society in general. meaning everyone is out for themselves and fuck the rest.

  209. @b PG… where did u see stuff like that to dig out? Real Madrid star striker Robin? i could not continue due to laughing?

  210. George

    Ha! Was it written in crayon?

  211. SV –

    Belgrano. Inhumane.

    Nuff said.

  212. Considering Thatcher was to the right of Genghis Khan, being to the left of her is a pretty effin HUGE place man.

  213. You tell them Dex,”POWER TO THE PEOPLE” as foxy used to say.

    During the miners strike I lent a miner mate of mine £30 quid.I never got it back.And I blame both Thatcher and Scargill in equal measure.£30 fucking quid.

  214. Dex @ 7.13 Bra-fucking-O. (Get off the fence son).

  215. Haha, these splinters ar killing me!


    I feel your pain and understand completely why you would blame the 2 of them in equal measure! Actually, forgot about the way she tried to wipe out the coal industry too, just because she hated the idea of working class people having the temerity to speak up for themselves. And Tony Blair followed her lead by having someone to go to war with so he could get all jingoistic and have the Sun newspaper sponsoring missiles with lovely messages like Up Yours Argies!

    I am spent, good night Irene.

  216. And that was when 30 quid was a lot of money.

  217. Billy’s Boots

    FunGunner – In one sentence (your “rebarbative/genuflect” effort), you have achieved the opposite effect of the collective lowering of IQ that occurs when certain posters arrive (you know the ones, they usually appear after we’ve lost). Between your theory and your letter, you’re on quite a roll today. Impressive contributions (unlike Nasri).

    Am enjoying today’s political commentary (but not the general political developments to which the commentary applies). I have often said that, in many ways, Britain is headed down the same path as the US. It is small consolation that Britain appears to be a few years behind.

  218. George

    That must have been a months pay to you then mate.

  219. Unbelievable catch. This is properly spectacular.

  220. Rand inspired Milton Friedman and was the biggest influence for,peoplemwhomthinkmthat humans are naturally evil, greedy bastards.

    SV, wouldn’t you say that things are worse now? Wages have been stagnant for thirty years, income inequality is at an all time high and the chances for poor kids to even reach the middle class are slim to none. Meanwhile socialist countries like Germany are kicking the US and Britain’s ass.

  221. People who think that humans are naturally evil, greedy bastards.

    iPads are quite shit.

  222. Agreed – she was also the big influence behind modern (at the time) business thinking in Silicone Valley. Massively influential yet relatively unknown, when you consider the impact she has had.

  223. Actually, Billy’s boots, your lot has applied austerity measures and seem to be on their way to privatizing the NHS. You’re not headed down our same path, you’re already there and setting the example for our cleptocrats.

    The phone tapping scandal is worse than Watergate and no one but a few underlings are facing the fire. In fact, old man Murdoch is in the caribbean tweeting about how the broke English shouldn’t be taking holidays.

  224. Ha! Just seen the list of candidates for the QPR job and guess whose favourite?


    Thats very true mate. If the tories get their way and finally get to privatise the NHS we will well be on our way to becoming a fully fledged 3rd world country, just like the US.

    The rich bankers ran riot for years, spent everyone’s money but their own and now its the poor, NHS and publice sector workers picking up the tab.

    Who says we are behind the US?

  225. How was she influential to Silicone Valley? I know a lot of IT nerds think that they’re super intelligent and think the world owes them something because of this. But they wouldn’t be anywhere if it weren’t for the government throwing massive amounts of money towards research into computer science. Better yet, Jobs nor Gates would be anywhere if it wasn’t for the people who came before them. This whole myth that these mildly autistic geniuses are personifications of John Galt is laughable.

  226. Exactly, Dex. That’s what boot lickers like SV will never understand until it’s too late. Which brings me back to the whole Libertarian thing. Libertarians are mostly middle class whites who have never had to rely on the system or poor, old idiots who don’t realize that the NHS and Medicate are socialist in nature. Just wait until their NHS is destroyed. They’ll be the first ones wailing and bellyaching. Here our tea baggers were waving placards which warned the government to stay out of their Medicare. The disconnect must be seen to be believed.

  227. Ada Lovelace did more for computer science then the Milk Snatcher.

  228. Brilliant discussion/debate today guys and I must applaud the fact that noone has gone “off the deep end” on anyone else for espousing different views, which tends to happen a lot with a subject like politics/political beliefs. If that is how I could label today’s script.

    Thatcher was indeed a self-serving, vindictive, vile, disgusting bitch of a woman who should have been hung, drawn and quartered a long, long time ago but unfortunately we do not do that anymore. Pity that. In as much as I never fully supported Arthur Scargill, I always knew that if Thatcher defeated him we were all lost. It may have taken a few years longer than I thought but look where we are now. Trust me the dots are very easy to connect.

    As far as American politics go, I simply refuse to vote. It angers some Americans as they see it as a duty but in fact it is a right, not a duty. As such, until they change the 2-party system I never will, as I see it as the most corrupt form of democracy I know of. My reasoning is simple as unless you are a member of either the Republican party or the Democratic party then you do not stand a chance of winning and in order to be a member you must agree to tow the party line. In other words, I see the President as merely a puppet of his/her respective party who has been groomed and trained in what to say and do. That is the real reason Ron Paul is as well known as he is but if you think he would ever get in the White House you need a reality check. He is a distraction and one that is planned. As usual the Republican candidate will be a White, God-fearing, Bible-thumping, American-loving, Israel-supporting, Pro-life, Anti-Gay marriage, Pro-Gun, Uber-patriotic, Uber-whitetoothed, Uber-slimey douchebag who would sell his own mother if he thought it would get him one more vote.

    Oh, and the Democratic candidate shall be much the same except he will not be publicly racist, homophobic or pro-life. Will be just as slimey though.

  229. On the Ayn Rand thingy. It is worth pointing out that none other than Alan Greenspan, (former Chairman of the Fed Reserve ’86 – ’07) was one of her devotees.

    She was also buried with a 6′ tall floral depiction of a dollar sign.

  230. Whilst there are elements of the NHS which are PPP there are no measurements being taken to privatise it en masse and, though the system is ailing and has been for many years, it is massively fairer than what you have in the US. There is a decent argument for a two-tiered system but I think it will always be resisted and I do not think any government will ever be brave enough to suggest its abolition. The NHS is British to it’s roots and enshrined in our national consciousness – almost all of my family have worked within it, as have I, and I strongly believe it is here to stay.

    The phone tapping scandal and Watergate have nothing to do with each other – it’s a false opposition. Why suggest one is worse than the other? How could you even come up with parameters to define a scale? One was rooted in the highest level of government and the other is specific to a particular corporation. Both affected human life (though no one much cared till Milly Dowling was involved)

    As much as I would like there to be, there is, thus far, zero evidence connecting Murdoch to the scandal. Until that is proven otherwise we have no recourse to presume him guilty of anything other than being a reprehensible right-wing, anti-class and classless, Australian scumbag who has done more than anyone else to lower journalistic standards.

  231. What the fuck are you all talking about?
    What position did they play and when?

  232. Irish @ 8.26 super, super stuff. Could not agree more with that.

    Gains – http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/2011/05/rand_silicon_va.php

    Well worth a watch.

  233. All I know about the Watergate thingy,was Robert Redford was much better looking than Dustin Hoffman.
    Is that enough information to join in the discussion with?

  234. Billy’s Boots

    G69, you’re jumping to conclusions re country. I’ve lived half my life in the US and half in the UK – which qualifies me to sit on the fence if I choose to! 🙂

    I note your points about trend-setting, but as a general conclusion, I don’t agree. Re the NHS, I’m not generally a fan of privatisation. Isn’t most medical care in the US already in private hands? Re phone-hacking, yes, as you say, some nice parallels with Watergate. It will be interesting to see if James will hang on or whether, like old Tricky Dickie, he eventually carries the can. The list of points of comparison between the two countries is long and unseemly, eg influence of lobbying, power of big pharma and defence industry, rise of celebrity culture, fiscal policy that favours the wealthy, violence in society, dumbing-down, etc. Neither country is exactly covered in glory, but I stand by my earlier comments.

  235. Ayn Rand’s philosophy in her own words: “My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.”

    I fail to see how one’s own happiness can be a moral purpose. A goal surely but a moral purpose? I think Gains said it well when he said she never outgrew her own childish selfishness, I mean how could she, if she existed for her own sake and no other?

  236. Billy’s Boots

    Irishgray | January 8, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    Yes, well said re the discussion. If only it were so civil when the topic of debate is, say Walcott – or Scott Parker! 😉

  237. Irish – the dollar sign thing is brilliant. Wonderful. If I believed in hell she’d have that round her neck and be fighting to get to the surface where the humanity exists.
    Seriously though what a perfect monument to her life. You can’t take it with you bitchface.
    George – Rand was playing the sweeper in an inventive 3-1-4-2 formation. Murdoch and Thatcher were on the right wing and never once cut in field, they starved supply to the centre and earnt humungous salaries whilst the rest of the team went poor. Greenspan was manager – he said he had the answer but later admitted the plan had a flaw. The flaw?
    The plan was bullshit.

  238. Nice shizzle Irish you rabid right winger!

    Jonny The NHS will never be fully privatised I hope. But there are real plans to try and do it man. Scary if that happens. Especially when you consider how many Americans have zero health insurance and rely on quacks and internet medicines. Truely 3rd world man.


    Ayn Rand played as an inside forward for Luton Town in the 1970s, hope that helps?

  239. Ha! Jonny beat me to it! 🙂

  240. Inside forward eg????
    Is that like a winger who doesn’t cross????

  241. Jonny, they don’t need to abolish the NHS when they can solidify the influence of PPPs within the system. Trust me, in a few years the NHS will be privatized completely while maintaining its name. It’s the same thing they’ve done here with Medicare and Medicaid. Every once in a while they talk about destroying Medicare only to scare people enough to accept more and more privatization. Think about it. Who would you rather count on, some deadbeat or the government? The government never refuses to pay their bills.

    The phone tapping scandal is just as bad or even worse than Watergate, Jonny. Watergate was just some republican operatives breaking into the offices of the Democratic party, thus confirming what everyone always suspected about Nixon. That he was a corrupt bastard. The phone tapping scandal involves influence peddling, coercion, bribes and everything horrible you can think of. It’s corruption from the ruling classes writ large.

    Of course there’s no evidence linking Mirdoch. Much like the mafia, the big guys never get pinched unless their underlings talk. And since Rebecca what’s her face is going to serve a few months in jail, it is better for her to take some hush money than it is to incriminate the big guy.

  242. One of my favorite quotes with regards to politicians in movies is the following: “Look Jack, I’m a politician. If I am not giving candies to babies, it’s because I am taking it from them.”

    Sums up every top politician perfectly for me as they would, and indeed do, whatever is necessary to stay on top. Modern politics is in my opinion the greatest game of slight of hand I ever witnessed. All you have to do is take a quick look at The Patriot Act in the States and you will see that simply by virtue of scaring the shit out of it’s own citizens, a country can actually strip those citizens of many of their rights and be thanked by those same citizens for doing so.

    Jonny – On the whole “being sold a dream” thingy. Yes you are right to a large extent as the poor, beleagured masses still buy into the bloody thing. Especially when you can point to any number of people who have made themselves a fortune or are at least a lot more comfortable now than they were previously. The real problem is that it is one big Ponzi scheme, with the necessary collateral being the blind faith the masses have in this dream which allows a mere few out of 100’s of millions to make it rich. And so long as every now and then one of those masses makes it themselves, well that will be just more inspiration for the masses to remain in line and suck up more of the BS being fed to them from the elite. As far as the middle-class is concerned, we are just buffer between the disgustingly wealthy and the desperately poor.

  243. @Gains
    Capitalism vs. Socialism
    West Germany vs. East Germany
    South Korea vs. North Korea
    Taiwan vs. Mainland China (until recently)

    I would say all in all Germany is no more socialist than Britain. Their benefit system may be more generous, but they do not have state owned health care, and their competitiveness has a lot to do with keeping wages low (which hits the Euro South). And as export world champions, they are more of US’ ass lickers than kickers.

    Collectivist concepts, including big government, are deeply misanthropic. They say that free people are inherently bad creatures, and to make society a better place, you need a kind of strong state control. The problem is, imposed decisions do not have the same moral value as free decisions. For example, if I’m a rich person and I decide to make a donation to a charity, this action has a moral value. On the other hand, if I’m a rich person and I’m taxed at 50%, the moral value this action is questionable, because it’s imposed.

    Generally, I do not understand this obsession with income inequality. Do I care ho much this guy down the road makes? Not really, as long as I’m free and I have a chance.

  244. PG – Arthur Scargill? Are you trying to bring the discussion back to wide strikers again?

  245. SV

    I am not sure you even get what the concerns are here man. Income inequality? You make it sound like people are bitching because some dude earns £30 more than them a week!

    Seriously, face it, change your views or burn in capitalist hell! 🙂

  246. And seriously, do you actually believe we are free?

    Fear and consumption baby, thats what its all about. We get distracted by shiney new things like LCD TVs, cars, iPads, X Boxes, Reality TV, sound bites, multi channels of cheap TV shows, movies and sports while the ruling minority keep on doing their utmost to line their pockets and kill the planet in the process. Ka-Booooom! 🙂

  247. Dexter.As long as its not my long lost £30.

  248. The Patriot act came as a result of the election of George Bush. When Bush got elected less than 45% of American voters went to the polls. By the way, next time you decide to skip out on an election, make sure to ask that you be exempted from anything good that comes forth from the politicians who count on the support of those who actually give a shit and vote. In fact, under Obama’s healthcare reform act, there’s a new rule which prohibits insurance companies from dropping you due to pre-existing conditions. Make sure to tell your insurance company that you didn’t care enough to vote and that you’re cool if they deny you care if they feel like it. Your friends are right to give you shit about not voting.

  249. Gains – within a few years? Not a chance. PPPs have been around for decades and have only infected a minute part of the NHS. Seriously this is not going to happen like medicare – there is nothing I can say to convince you but half of my friends, my brother and my dad work in the NHS – some of them in very senior positions (my brother’s on the GMC) and they would laugh at the suggestion (at least in the short term). It will never devolve into a medicare style situation because public sentiment is deeply, massively ingrained on this issue.

    The phone tapping thing is bad but it’s nothing like Watergate – make your points by all means but it’s unhelpful to draw comparisons between subjects which are only superficially related. I agree Murdoch may have known but it’s entirely possible he didn’t – to suggest anyone knows other than the people involved is, currently, supposition. I’d like to think it’s true true but then that’s the danger. He’s a dark, heartless man but I prefer to assume nothing.

  250. George

    I chose £30 just for you man. Its not like you still hold a grudge against some poor mistreated miner after 25 years now! 🙂

  251. Dex.He was a skiving cunt who loved the time off.
    They all were 🙂

  252. I think the phone tapping scandal is a good analogy actually. Maybe not specifically the tapping, but the whole culture that was allowed to flourish;

    Police officers in the pay and pockets of journalists, politicians too scared to do anything to stop the likes of Murdoch in case they be the subject of salatious news stories in the tabloids.

    Very very dodgy and corrupt as fuck. Basically Murdoch acted like he was king of England man. And the way the likes of Blair and Cameron kissed his wrinkly ol arse, who can blame the vile twat?

  253. Oh dont get me started on those lazy work shy fucking northern monkey miners george!

  254. Gains, It’s hardly surprising that the establishment have closed ranks to bury the phone hacking story. They have got far too much to lose if some of their secrets were to be exposed.

  255. @Dexter
    I believe I’m free.

    The idea of the social welfare state is that individuals are entirely taken care of by the state. Can you be surprised then that the same individuals who do need to make a single serious decision in their lives are also not a position to make their own judgement about pressures of the consumption culture?

    That’s big redistributionalist government in action for you. Adults behave like babies.

  256. Germany beats both the US and Britain in just about every quality of life metric there is.

    You have a nice view on taxation. You should hurry up and go Galt. You’re just wasting your time living among such amoral humans.

  257. Thats a nonsensical statement man. Because we are lucky that in the recent past a government decided to create the welfare state to help the vulnerable, that means people lose the ability to make rational adult decisions?

    I would suggest the endless mind numbing and dumbin down that occurs in the media is much more of a reason for that shit and a much more malignant force.

    Jeeez, are you suggesting the NHS and welfare state are wrong now?

  258. In a recent UNICEF study 2 countries finished bottom and 2nd bottom of quality of life. Can you guess those 2 countries?

    And I guess it depends what one thinks freedom means. I dont think we are free in the UK, compared to other countries we might be, but in terms of a democracy? Nope, I dont believe so. Its like having to choose between coke and pepsi when you hate both those drinks.

    Ooh, that last sentence will probably be the most high brow intellectual thing I will ever say…. How depressing! 🙂

  259. Dex it’s superficial when trying to qualify one as worse than the other – not saying they don’t have valid convergent areas.

  260. Gains – no my friends are not right for giving me shit for not voting, as I have a genuine reason for not doing so and that is I firmly believe that politicians in both parties are as corrupt as can be. I will not condone the system by simply shrugging my shoulders and saying ‘ah well, that is simply the way of things’. It is a right and as such it is mine to execute in what ever way I see fit. And as for insurance, I pay for both my own and the guys who work for me. It costs quite a bit too but I am not too bothered as I feel it is worth it.

  261. Jonny, Watergate is actually an apt comparison to the phone hacking scandal. Both exposed corruption at the highest level and opened a huge can of worms.

    Jonny, look at what the Tories did to pensions. The NHS is next on the agenda, mark my words.

  262. @Gains
    I used to study and work in Germany for years. My German is still better than my English.

    I found Germany a very comfortable country. Their small towns are the place I would live in. And Munich is a fairy tail.

    I also find Britain more open minded and more tolerant. For immigrants, Britain is a better place. And the job market is more accessible here. Generally, I feel in Britain more free than I did in Germany.

    Britain has nothing to be ashamed of. Great country.

  263. Dex, Watergate was a simple break in and entry which exposed corruption and malfeasance at the highest levels. The Phone hacking scandal was an egregious violation of privacy that demonstrated how vulnerable every day people are against the interests of those in power and it went as high up as the prime minister. How is that not an apt comparison?

  264. Irish

    I have a real dilemna when it comes to people choosing not to vote. On the one hand I feel I really should as my forefathers died so that a commoner like me can vote, while on the other hand, all politicians these days are self serving career politicians in the pockets of corporations and the idea of a choice is laughable.

    But yeah, you are a cunt for not voting! 🙂

  265. SV

    The NHS and Welfare State are the 2 main things that I am very proud of man. That and Danger Mouse.

  266. Gains

    The more I think about it, the more I think the phone hacking was far worse than Watergate! As Jonny says, not perfectly comparable, but the whole culture that went with the hacks hacking was massively worrying as it showed how far up the food chain the media moguls operate at. And about 3 days after backing the Tories, News Corp was promised the go ahead to buy out BSkyB.

    One Tory copied almost word for word one of James Murdochs speeches, espousing how brilliant all things Murdoch were.

  267. @Dexter
    Just a couple of decades ago this country was proud of the biggest empire in the history of the mankind. Times change.

  268. SV

    Ouch! That is one thing definitely NOT to be proud of man.

  269. That’s well and good Irish, but if you ever have the misfortune of falling ill make sure you tell your insurance company that you want to deal with them under the old rules. I mean, since you don’t give a shit either way and all.

    Voting is a right which we’re privileged to have. A lot of Americans seem to forget that once upon a time we were ruled by a monarchy and we didn’t have the right to vote. Our democracy functions better when people exercise this right.

    Your friends give you shit because your ambivalence is childish. The reason most politicians get away with the shit they do is because there’s no push back from the populace.

  270. @Dexter
    I think it was a rather decent empire if you compare it let’s say to the Russian Empire. But it’s a matter of opinions I suppose.

  271. SV, our governments would have enough money to pay everyone a stipend if they weren’t such warmongering cunts. Something tells me you don’t mind the billions we spend on socialist programs like the military, though.

  272. SV

    That’s like saying the 1st world war was better than the 2nd world war because they had cooler uniforms!

  273. @Gains
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  274. Gains – You are right, there is no push back from the populace as the populace keeps ‘voting’ them back in and expecting change. The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results. You can choose to stay on the merrigoround but I for one got off a long time ago and do not regret it. As for the insurance companies, old rules or new I do not care which as I have always paid up my premiums, even when it meant working 80 hours a week to make sure I could do so. I am lucky not because I have insurance but because I love what I do for a living and happen to be very good at it too. I also take pride in the fact I made my own company what it is.

    I choose not to vote as there is no one I determine to be worthy of my vote, is that not a prerequisite for voting for someone? I refuse to vote for one person because they are simply not as ‘bad’ as the other.

  275. Dex, Watergate was a historic event. The phone hacking scandal is relatively new and it hasn’t claimed any large scalps like Watergate did.

  276. @Dexter
    You got me here mate. I do find the red Victorian uniform with black hats rather cool.

  277. There are many interesting areas of comparison – but there is no need for us to decide which is ‘worse’. In fact it would be impossible to agree on such a thing anyway.

    As for being contemptuous about people not voting I know enough Australians who have compulsory voting to know that is generally unappreciated. Opting out is a choice in itself and who are you to tell people otherwise?

    For me spoiling your vote rather than silently abstaining is, I think, preferable but Irish is thoroughly correct: it is a right and should not be an act of prescription.

    As for the NHS – I believe you’re not even close but it’s great that you have so much more insight into the matter than us over here. As I said, I won’t change your mind, but then I imagine I know less about American politics than you think you know about the NHS. You state things as immutable fact when what we are all offering is simply educated (more or less) opinion – it’d be helpful if you made a little concession to that.

  278. Irish

    You have a job????

    SV; 🙂

    I’m a sucker for epaulettes man.

  279. Communism collapsed in 1989. Capitalism collapsed in 2008. Anybody got any other bright ideas?

  280. Billy’s Boots

    I thought it was Arsenal that collapsed in 2008. No wait, that was last year. No, 2009, no (repeatedly bangs head on wall)…

  281. Merlot capitalism is thriving better than ever. Goldman Sachs made more money during and since the collapse than they were beforehand. The banks, aided by the cowed politicians whom they now pretty much own, have successfully raped us all.

    Capitalism has failed ‘the people’ but then ‘the people’ has never been, and never will be, it’s concern.

  282. God, I wish capitalism had failed man. What a sweet day that would be.

    Well said Jonny boy!

  283. Billy’s Boots

    You forgot 2010, 2005, 2003. Oh feck! 🙂

  284. The problem with capitalism and socialism is that in both cases, the power brokers are outright capitalists who care not a jot for their fellow man. Unless he can make them richer, of course.

  285. Thats the real problem with Communism and Socialism, not the ideologies, but the twats who implement them.

  286. Socialism yes but, personally, I think communism is a bad ideology.

  287. Irish, if you think paying your premiums means they won’t get bounced you off, then you need to read up on the way insurers do business here. The fact that this practice will become illegal in 2014 is because some of us showed up to vote. Also you don’t need to vote in the presidential elections. You can effect change in your own city or in your own borough by voting. You can vote for congress and get someone as good as Russ Feingold, Alan Greyson, Al Franken, Bernie Sanders etc.. These politicians are proofnthatnyou don’t get the same crooks every time. I’m sorry if I sound like a dick about this, but my governor is proof of that if you stay home you’ll get the very worst politician.

    Jonny, Australia is a ringing endorsement for the effectiveness of cumpolsory voting. Australia is one of the best countries on the planet.

  288. Al Franken is cool. He’s wrote some pretty cool books too. Lies Liars to name one.


    Ahh Communism too rich for your blood eh man! Bring it on I say! 🙂

  289. Not a Thatcher lover but she created for the first time in Britain social mobility with right to buy, councils should have spent the money on new housing stock(sorry John fucking socialist Prescot) it’s alright for the Jeremy’s and Germima’s to poo pa the scheme,
    Perhaps some of you think once a council tenant always a council tenant

  290. Gains – I was talking about the presidential elections specifically, not local elections which I gladly and wholeheartedly take part in. However, I must stress that I have seen personally what happens to politicians as they climb the proverbial ladder. They take on this fake smile and soft hand shake and will promise you everything while at the same time not actually committing to anything.

  291. Anyways both The Girlfriend and my pizza have arrived at the same time, so laters peeps 🙂

  292. Yogi, is there any truth in the rumour that ‘class’ is your middle name? 😉

  293. Jonny, the privatization of the NHS may not be immediate, but it will get worse incrementally. You know how I know? It’s because our countries serve as incubators for horrible government policies for one another. Look at how much bad shit Cameron has implemented thus far, eventhough he has been in government for a relatively short time. Most of the shit he’s doing is straight out of the republican play book.

  294. Arrived ! That’s polite for come in the US of A ?

  295. Is’nt politics fun.

  296. Spy

    Not at all man. But the short termist approach has fucked things up for the following generations hasnt it? And the mid term goal was to gentrify large swathes of London, booting out those who’d lived there for years.

    Oh and what the fuck is wrong with being a council tenant? There is way too much obsession on Britain’s owning bricks and mortar, so much so that ordinary working class people cannot afford to buy any more.

    In countries like Germany renting is the norm, not this pathetic desire to own a property.

    My Nan and Grandad had council flats their entire adult lives. They had a top life, could afford to go travelling when they wanted and had the security that comes with a council property. Shame thats more or less been eroded by short term capitalist agenda.

    Do you really think Thatcher did it to help out the working class? It was a way to get them out into the suburbs and surrounding areas while helping her chums make millions a la that bitch in Westminster who sold the houses for a pound a pop.

    Basically mate, you are wrong.

  297. I hate thatcher coz she took my milk away in school.

  298. Sorry dukeyg

    Its been a bit relentless on here today man!

  299. Australia is ace – I’ve lived there – but it has many problems and the fuck-awful people they have voted in, John Howard for one, and some of the policies which have resulted are simply bad.

    The quality of the country is not remotely reflective of the fact it has compulsory voting.

    Anywho it’s been a pleasure conversing with you all – fascinating breadth of topics with some interesting people.

    I have a pillow that needs my face and a cruel arbitrary world to escape. 😉

  300. Ahh the old milk snatcher. There’s another reason to hate the cow!

  301. Duke ,you and I should talk among ourselves I think

  302. Nighty Night Jonny. Don’t have Thatcher related nightmares now. Although I know George often likes to put on his Thatcher wig, twin set and pearls around this time on a Sunday.

    Theres a lovely image for you.

  303. George

    DukeG has already added to the political debate mate.

  304. I wonder what the odds are of nasri playing for the spuds next season on loan? Seems like he is going down the Ade route. Already a bit part player, playing poorly, looking disinterested. Yep all the tell tale signs are there.

  305. Gains – you just don’t seem to understand the importance of the NHS to the British – no government has ever dared to even float the idea. It could happen but not within a few years.

    The Tories are not even remotely capable of surviving as a power if they started on this.

    It’s an institution – it is part of what defines our nation – in England this about as emotive an issue as it gets. We believe in it, warts and all. The politicians know this and are too scared to bite the hand that feeds them.

    Right. Signing out…

  306. Dex@
    Councils squandered the money from sales
    In other words spent to shore up their lust for a political agenda.
    Try and get this- for the first time council tenants had a choice of where to live just like the Oxbridge Elite have been doing for gens,
    Buying is not for Everyman granted but give people choice

  307. Choice?

    Thats the cop out answer to everything man. Choice like it means better quality or something. When you sell the council properties, the councils can’t magic up land in which to build new ones can they? Especially not in built up cities.

    If the housing market wasnt so bloated thanks to buy to lets and spivvy get rich quick landlords and developers then the rpivate sector would be cheaper and there would still be council properties.

    Choice my fucking arse.

  308. Councils were being squeezed to fuck by the tory government at the time as well, especially Labour councils.

    Face it, the sell off was akin to the selling off of Nationalised industries; short termist and aligned to the individualistic agenda Thatcher was so keen on.

  309. Right off to bed, sorry for the political ranting!

    I can’t believe we keep getting linked to Salomon Kalou FFS! What is that all about? Really hope there’s nothing in this rumour.

  310. Last time I looked there are one and a half million people on housing list, last yr they built about 20,000 social houses, UK is 70 percent agricultural. You fucking work it out

  311. Oh jesus, you are now suggesting we build on land outside the places where the houses were? Like I said originally, moving people out of their areas. Lets all stick em on the shetland islands, or the Yorkshire Dales, or the Cotswalds?

    You really are thick.

  312. Dex go to bed

  313. Jonny, the NHS is as sacred a cow as our social security administration. However, this hasn’t stopped republican hopefuls just this year calling it a ponzi scheme and unconstitutional. If they’re saying this it is because there is a large enough group willing to destroy it, since everything they say is churned out of control groups and closely observed polls. And you know how they’re going to go after the NHS? They’re going to use the same language they used to pass all those austerity measures. Thus far they’ve increased university tuitions and have cut a bunch of services, so these are small victories. But, I can almost guarantee you that Cameron’s going to have a go at the NHS before his term is up.

  314. Bradys right foot

    I don’t vote its a quite pointless exercise in a western democracy. The various groups who request your vote differ only in their own self interests and profile, they all congeal from the same homogenous mass of financial, strategic and privileged sludge which condems us to a life of financial servitude and insignifigant influence. Don’t forget were the lucky ones, the developing world don’t have it so good sure they can all get mobile phones but clean drinking water is a little more difficult to come by.

  315. I was as surprised by the excellent standard of political debate as I was by the apparent fact that Irish works for a living. But I should have expected that from ACLFers.

    Except Spy, you fvcking history revisionist, councils under Thatcher’s government weren’t allowed to spend the revenue from council house sales on new building stock. And the fvcking, cvnty bitch will still get a state funeral…..still there’s a game to be won today.

  316. Heavy on here last night.

    MDGunner, you are correct about the milk snatcher not allowing councils to build new homes with the money from sales.

  317. Interesting fact


    When a song is stuck in your head, a scan of your brain looks the same as when you are actually listening to that song.

  318. Enjoyed the Manure/City game yesertday. Glad city are out as well.

    Kompany’s red card was a strange one all right; I didn’t even think it was a foul at the time. I suppose he did go in 2 footed, but it did not seem reckless. Meh, who cares anyway?

    I think we will win the FA Cup this year. I can feel it in my bones.

  319. Exhilirating political debates on this blog. Vile as Thatcher was though, she just reflected the lurch to the right in British and US politics of that period and since, which itself reflected by the demise of what once was that old semblance of organised, ethical left. I asked a highly respected labour junior minister, who happened to be a close friend to Africa, at the time of Blair’s first election what she thought. She said “He is a card-board cut-out. A fake. His impact ultimately will be tragic and he will likely take Britain into one of America’s many dirty wars”. I never forgot this astounding prophecy.

    So it proved, and so it proved.

  320. First?

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