Hand Der Vaart Strikes As Arsenal Are Pole-Axed In Defeat

Tottenham Hotspur 2 – 1 Arsenal

1 – 0 van der Vaart (40)
1 – 1 Ramsey (51)
2 – 1 Walker (71)

Arsenal fell to their fourth Premier League defeat of the season, the magic number as far as champions are concerned. No team, the received wisdom tells us, can lose more than four games in a season and still finish top of the Premier League at the end of the 38th game. With ninety three points remaining to be won, Arsenal must land ninety to be realistically in with a chance of domestic league glory, a tall order. Robert Pershing Wadlow tall.

Out of reach was the tacit admission by the manager after the match,

[It’s] not realistic to say today that we will win the league. We have to fight to come back into a much better position, that’s reality.

Now that is out of the way, can we get on with the rest of the season? According to Arsène, the team played with the handbrake on. It’s an all too familiar refrain. The statement is more baffling in that no answers seem forthcoming as to why and when the brake will release; the footballing equivalent of the chicken and egg conundrum.

Arsenal’s problems yesterday were all too familiar. Missing when it appeared easier to score, conceding when on top, failing to capitalise after an equaliser, conceding with an individual error from a player who had been otherwise outstanding. And failing to create a clear opening when chasing the game, a failing that gnaws at the soul.

Yes, this is a defeat that hurts. Not just because it’s Tottenham and Lord knows that is bad enough. Not just because Clive Allen is an irritating low-rent, classless wannabe who never was or will be. Not just because the media this morning paints a picture of Poor Little Adebayor, those vile chants show what a horrible lot Arsenal fans are. And yes, the chants were frankly distasteful. Mr Redknapp, you are right to condemn them.

But don’t take the moral high ground with us, certainly when your tax affairs are considered worthy of criminal investigation; certainly not when your own supporters abuse your opposite number with something infinitely more vile, chants that you see fit to ignore. As do your media pals, refusing to give them the headline attention, reducing them to by-products, almost forgiving them as tit-for-tat.

More that the scenario is becoming all too familiar. Just when you think a corner is being turned, the road straightens. No-one says supporting a team is easy, anyone who thinks so will be off to an internet retailer to buy their City top.

But this is painful.

We can point to refereeing inconsistencies. van der Vaart’s handball, running to the crowd; both yellow cards, both the second that should lead to a red under the rules. But to be honest, I have no issue with the celebration; was it any different to any Arsenal player in similar circumstances? No.

The former? Hard to spot but spotting infringements is why there is a team of officials. They missed it and having a fourth official on the touchline is devoid of reason if they are not watching footage for these moments. TV companies have replays instantaneously, a decision inside thirty seconds; seemingly beyond the wit of football’s authorities to implement. Yes, we will be caught out by those decisions as well as benefitting.

Let’s not lose sight of one thing. Arsenal did not do enough to merit a win. There is still not a team ethic instilled but there are hints that better times lay ahead. When they arrive, well, how long is a piece of string.

Szczesny was outstanding until the goal. Post-match, his manager reported on the player’s ‘devastation‘; I wish I was confident that the rest of the squad felt as low. You sense with the Pole that he has taken it heart because of the personal mistake but also the nature of the match. 

Adebayor (twice), van der Vaart and Parker were kept out in the first half, the former Arsenal man well-shepherded by the defence all afternoon. He escaped to provide the assist for the opening goal but overall Alex Song and Mertesacker once played well as a partnership.

Song’s deeper deployment meant another start for Coquelin, once more promising. Whilst Arteta prompted but there was a spark missing, the sparkle that a world-class player brings to proceedings. That little bit extra, the difference, the drive. It was not there and in truth has been missing thus far this season. Up front, Robin van Persie puffed and huffed, added guile but lacked support and service.

The season was summed up by the injury to Sagna. Out until January, it places great weight on the shoulders of Carl Jenkinson. Bought as an understudy, he now has the lead role. And let’s be honest, if he has not crumbled under the pressure created from his last two away matches, the young lad is mentally capable of being Arsenal’s right back in Sagna’s absence.

It is a wretched stomach-turning feeling this morning. God, I hate Tottenham.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on October 3, 2011, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 477 Comments.

  1. We are an average team with a manager who has lost the plot.

  2. Spurs deserved their win though Yogi.

    It’s us who have to put these games to bed, to score enough to not worry about the odd decision.

    Handbrake on? Maybe. Players upset? Heard it before.

    Most of us will follow Arsenal however good we are. It is dissapointing to see what is, in all truth, an average side after the feast of the near past.

    Therein lies much of the discontent that resounds through any media outlet.

    Now, the reasons for that decline would merit some investigation and analysis

  3. still reeling.

  4. I love Arsenal

  5. Cbob

    Oh I agree, we didn’t deserve a win. I find the final twenty minutes more baffling than anything. Not one shot on target. Not one. How can you expect to achieve anything when you cannot find an effort of note to score from?

    The problem with any investigation is that it requires a look at what is going on at London Colney. They’ve been working on defence marking, fine, good, well done. But is it at the expense of the rest of it all? Is, to put the question out there, Wenger’s methods in training, to rely on the footballing intelligence of the players, out of step with the ability of the current crop?

    Yes, key players are missing, en masse as well. But there are enough first XI, ‘big name’ players to cover, to step up to the plate and lead. The fundamental problem is not enough chiefs.

    YW

  6. I like Jenkinson as he gives 100% and does not hide. But he is blatently not good enough yet to be playing in the first team. Added to that he is going to be trust into a side which looks as brittle as balsa wood defensively and more often that not will have Theo Walcott ahead of him. I fear for him to be honest.

    We can the potential to be a decent side, but have too many fundemenatl flaws to consistantly put together a run of winning games. We look like conceeding when we are put under any pressure at all, have no creativity in midfield (hardly suprising after selling our 2 “playmakers”)and if RvP does not score it is hard to see who will on a regular basis.

    The good points are that we have some good players, and some youngsters who look like they could be very very good players (AOC, Le Coq, Frimpong, Szchezny), but how long will they stick around for if the team keep on repeating the same mistakes we have been making for nearly half a decade now?

    A glum morning indeed. 😦

  7. handbrake my arse….what else will we hear as an excuse?the clouds were big today?

    ramsey,walcott,arteta,gervinho looked so poor that it was disgusting?not once of them is fit to lace the boots of our invincibles.coquelin played better than them and showed better thinking,accuracy with passing and conviction.

    its time AW is sacked…..this is not a blip. This is the pattern-weve now won some 4 games in the last 19 or so league games- if u cant wake up and smell the coffee the club is going down the drain.

  8. consols – That pretty much sums things up at the moment for me too.

  9. In the past Arsene’s system has worked, or come very close to working as we have always had some exceptional players in the side. Now we just have some good players, and that does not seem to be enough to get this current system to function properly.

  10. Surely Coquelin should play right back based on current form (and assuming Song can move back into midfield) – would be much happier with him there than Jenkinson for the moment.

  11. Why is Clive Allen classless? Don’t get that at all. Regardless of Allen’s position at their club, when a human-being extends their hand out, you fcuking shake it.

    He’s hardly an unknown in the game. Wenger is a classless, arrogant wanker who consistently gets accused of bad sportsmanship. Spurs won and deservedly so. Shake their hands and move on.

  12. Sagna with a fractured fibula. How much worse can things get?
    For someone who never seems to get the rub of the green, I’m amazed how Arsene seems to consistently tempt the football gods with his transfer policy.
    Mind you given the man’s luck, even a ManCity or Real Madrid sized squad may not be be enough for Wenger.
    Nevertheless, it would have been nice to know that he’d done all everything within his resources to prepare for situations like this.

  13. Spurs fan here. Nice article. Don’t worry Gunners, you could have come off with points in the match and will come back strong. Szchezny was great.

  14. Yogi, it was just on the tip of your tongue(finger, whatever), Wenger seems to have run out of excuses for each short coming, so now he’s just recycling them. one week it’s “mental strength/concentration”, the next week it’s the “believe in the quality of the team”, thereafter we get “inexperience/bright prospects”.
    All that being said. he’s still the man to fix this up, even if he appears totally clueless now.

  15. time for all the AKB’s to take their head out of arsene’s @rse and start thinking straight, a united arsenal fans against the cartel of Wenger/Gazidis/ Hill Wood and Kronke is the only way to save our great club

  16. Alan – 2 things really. Clive Allen is not a “human being”…he is a grade “A” twat. Secondly, I am glad Wenger is a bad loser. Good. Show me a good loser, and I will simply show you a loser. If we had more bad losers in our side, maybe we would not lose as many games.

  17. Coq had a good game. Other than that I struggle to find any positives.

    We look rudderless.

    I got jumped on a few weeks back for suggesting we had zero chance of the title. It gives me no pleasure to be proven right.

    Injuries are decimating us once again but once again it is Wenger’s job to ensure we have a squad that can cope. Jenkinson looks so exposed I am surprised to notice he is wearing anything at all.

    I would be greatly surprised now if we finish 4th but if we can stay in shouting distance and make some serious purchases come January there is a chance. The absence of Vermy is costing us greatly.

  18. YW You are skirting around the real issue.Arsene Wenger.We are in the position we are now because of him.What is happening now has not happened overnight it has been creeping up on us since 2008.And it came to a head on dayline day panic buying on average players.There seems to be a law amongst Gooners not to blame Wenger.He has become a modern day Brian Clough.Everything at the club is stagnating because the manager has.

  19. Alright Dev you go and sort that out and we’ll meet you there yeah?

  20. Jonny

    Jenkinson will be alright. He needs some cover though, that’s part of the right side of midfield / attack’s job and that was woeful in the end. The problem is that when you chase the game, you leave gaps and there was a massive one ahead of Jenkinson which Bale was happy to exploit.

    YW

  21. We’ve been in decline for years, our defence has been getting steadily worse for years, it it really that surprising that we are where we are?

    every summer he says he knows what the problems are and and he can fix them and every summer he’s failed.

    wenger has overseen our downfall and now looks clueless as how to turn it around, its a huge shame but he’s unrecognisable from the manager who built the invincibles team.

  22. Just Another Luke

    I would agree with GA on Clive Allen and AW, the bad loser. We have more important things to think about than a slighted Clive Allen.

    I would also agree with Big Johann on Coquelin at right back when our midfield is back to full strength, which requires JW19 to return, AS17 relieved of CB duties with the return of TV5.

  23. I don’t think Jenkinson has even 15 pro games under his belt, and now he is going to be our 1st choice right back for 3 or 4 months (at least). This, in a team which offers no protection to any of the defenders anyway. I feel sorry for the lad.

  24. It’s all a bit disheartening. We were beaten by the better team and even though we showed flashes of the team we could be, the truth is that Spurs didn’t even have to play that well to beat us. At times, we look worringly average, but I still think we can finish in the top 6 and hopefully scrape 4th place once the new players settle in and Jack returns.
    Our away form is worrying though…

  25. The coque showed why many tipped him to play ahead of the frimp

  26. Whilst Mertesacker and Song played fairly well, it was worrying how many 1 on 1’s our keeper was faced with. If had hadn’t made so many good stops it really could have been quite embarrasing. The polar opposite was Friedel who I don’t remember being called to make any saves at all.

  27. Let’s not all be hasty in the wake of this defeat. We are currently experiencing an unprecedented injury list even for us. We have 3 of our 4 centre backs out injured. Any team would struggle with that, one of which is our only real defensive leader. We have our best Midfielder out for a long time and now we have our most consistent player in Sagna joining them.

    Whilst it is obvious that this team is struggling to find consistency it is hard when the back four is always changing and not by design.

    But I saw enough yesterday to believe that things are on the up. We played some really good football and were the better team overall, although Spuds did create the more dangerous opportunities. I still think the team was worthy of a draw.

    I feel sorry for Jenkinson, he is clearly not ready but one thing we do know is that he will give everything for Arsenal. Just the look on his face when we equalised shows he really is a gooner through and through.

    There were plus points. Coq was brilliant and needs to start getting more game time. He showed a great range of passing, tackling and industry. Like a more cultured Flamini.

    Chesney was once again amazing, proving Arsene right for not spending 10’s of millions on a goalie.

    Heads up Gooners we will be OKAY.

  28. This season is rapidly descending into a nightmare.

    2 of our best players leave, 3 of our best players now injured long term, 2 probably being our best defenders.

    Confidence is shot to pieces, but saying that, I thought we played well in patches yesterday, and once we had scored we really needed to keep the pressure on.

    The thing that is killing us in individual errors, and sloppy play.

    We really need to get back to basics, pass and move.

    The movement was really macking yesterday, combined with some of our more attacking players proving really ineffective, Theo and Gerv.

    Ramsey was clearly nervous and the game passed him and Arteta by, how we miss Jack.

    And now we have Spuds gloating for 2 whole weeks – great.

    Sick of hearing this ‘handbrake on’ bollocks that get’s repeated after every defeat – The time is now for the players to stand up and be counted and play – keep it simple, and win some games.

    AW needs to sort this mess out, and fast, otherwise 4th is going to become a dream amidst the mightmare.

  29. cant see us getting top 4 this season. at least before we had the chance of outscoring people nowadays we cant even outscore blackburn and our defence is looking the worst under wengers watch

  30. Doubt that Jenkinson will cover at this stage, GA – it will most likely be Coquelin as BJ said above, or Koscielny (once we have a few more CBs back).

  31. Coquelin at right-back is a good call, Jenkinson isn’t good enough to be playing premier league yet. It’s a shame because on yesterday’s display, he’d be running Song close for the defensive midfield spot. I guess Koscielny will be back for the next game and then Vermaelen a week or two after.

  32. Yogi,
    Jenks will always be exposed the way he plays. He almost never stays back in the few games I’ve seen him in, even when we weren’t chasing the game.

    I couldn’t believe how easily’ Bale went past him, in one case starting from behind. If the boy isn’t very quick, then what exactly is the point of having someone so inexperienced in the side, seeing that he offers little else?

  33. Agree that we didn’t do enough to win. Yet again, we did just enough to lose, despite being (marginally) the better side for 70 minutes. Our problems seem to stem in midfield. Ramsey had a stinker, and many of Sours’ best attacks came after he misplaced the ball needlessly. I’ve nothing against Aaron, but he is not the right man for that position. The problem is, other than Jack, who is? Song is too defensive, Arteta prefers to sit deep, Diaby lacks the craft. Should we try Arshavin there in the interim and accept that everyone else will need to work harder around him? I really don’t know.

    The title race is over for us. But I have to believe the top four is still a realistic target. We just need to hang in there for the next couple of months and hope to launch a run once the team is less injured and more cohesive. Anyone who writes us off completely now does so prematurely.

    My thoughts:
    http://thearmchairsportsfan.com/2011/10/02/walker-fires-spurs-win-as-arsenal-shoot-themselves-in-the-foot-again/

  34. I might feel that the club is sliding, I might even be willing to suggest that much of the blame must rest with Arsene and the club but I would never agree with you Dev.

    Classless? You epitomise the term.

    As for Colney, Yogi, yes, real inormation from there would be informative, maybe.

    The thing is, our players just aren’t as good as they need to be to challenge for anything meaningful. It hurts to say it but this side is average. We should not be hoping against hope that a returning youngster like Jack will turn this team around. That’s just not fair or realistic.

    As you say, the defence can be as good as any in the league but we still have to create and score. That last half hour was awful to watch. Misplaced passess, no pattern of play, Gormless and panicky.

    Paper thin.

    Were we so reliant on exceptional individuals for our success? I remember you arguing, oh, a long time ago, that a Cescless Arsenal might not be a worse team but a more direct team. Forgive me if I have that wrong but I think that was the gist. I agreed with you and for a short time this season that seemed to be the developing pattern but that seems to have gone now.

    Lack of leaders? Why? Plenty of expereince signed this last summer. Do players we sign become followers? I don’t understand why this is so. Where is the fight?

  35. i haven’t heard a peep from any of spurs fans im friends with, they all saw it coming and so did allot of gooners. its probably we’ve been so bad for so long that its not quite the achievement it would have been a few years ago.

  36. Yogi, I think Jenks will be alright too and there aren’t many sterner tests than facing Bale.

    Nonetheless I agree with Goonerandy – I feel sorry for him. He shouldn’t have been put in this thankless position.

    The interlull has come at a good time for us – lick wounds, regroup and come out with a Steven Segal mentality (Under Siege!).

    That is if we don’t lose all of our remaining players through injuries…

  37. OOU – I hope you are right. Le Coq would be a good shout. He is comfortable on the ball and has good distribution. He also has a season of top flight football under his belt and has played right back before. Should we even be discussing this though? A club of this stature has no good alternative as back up right back, it is criminal really.

  38. Scezs played out of his skin, but he really deserves better protection from the team. I feel for him as he is performing fantastically but ending up on the losing side too many times.

  39. johnny… problem is mate these players look lost… how many times are we gonna hope they regroup? carling cup final? newcastle away? loosing a 2 goal lead at home to the scum? man utd destruction?

    theres something deeply wrong at the club, buying new players wont work (as we’ve seen) when theres no leadership or accountability

  40. These are awful times for our club.But no one is doing anything to change anything.Kroenke in America is happy with Wenger because Wenger makes money.Thats all Kroenke is interested in.The defence is shocking but stubborn Wenger refuses to bring in a defensive coach.Change has to happen now.If Wenger isnt removed then Rice should be now.There is no room for sentiment in the modern game and get in a defensive coach.But sadly we all know nothing will change.Its carry on going around in circles Arsene.While we get left behind by our rivals.And thanks Stan for the ST price rise.

  41. Ramsey should be given a very long contract.then ship him out on loan until he gets his mojo back. He scored yes.but the scales are heavily in favor of his gaffs.refusing to track sandro for that throw in led to the second goal.

  42. I agree the Coq will have to play right back. He was the only one to have a really good game yesterday.

    Arteta is more like Denilson than Cesc. Keeps play ticking, but doesn’t offer much else and rarely looks to create something by himself.
    Did he make a lot of chances for Everton?

  43. wankerwengermustgo

    Yo Drew 10 … you must surely be the epitome of optimism! But you and many like you are just here to make excuses for a manager who is long past his “sell by” date. We won’t be heading anywhere but south if we don’t all unite in getting him out. That’s the bottom line. How anyone can continue to think that this dick-head is THE MAN for the job – is beyond me!

  44. Drew 10 “We are currently experiencing an unprecedented injury list even for us”

    You can’t keep blaming injuries for these losses. Man Utd had both their first choice centre backs missing against us. Apart from Song, the other defenders were all firsrt choice

    “and were the better team overall” How on earth were we the better team? We had more possession, but did Friedal make a save? You have to do more than just have lots of possession.

  45. I am hoping that this defeat was the match that put our 4-3-3 variant into a coma. We just don’t seem to have the personnel at the moment to pull it off convincingly anymore. Our off the ball movement has degenerated quite a bit and with that we’ve lost the ability to exploit spaces and gap. To tear teams apart.

    The thing is these thoughts of ill are tempered by a few thing. Some of the football we’ve been playing hints at improvement, slowly though it comes, the improvement is there. We’re also playing without the first choice team, though this is in truth scant consolation, especially considering we still had a very strong team, it still tempers my thought. It didn’t particular surprise me that our goal came from a driving run and cross from Song our centreback for the day, such is the lack of invention and desire from too many of our attacking players.

    Perhaps this is the biggest problem we have. Both Theo and Gervinho were far too predictable, too set in their ways. They try and dribble down the flanks, isolating themselves. They’ll then either contiue bullheaded, sometimes finding success, sometimes not, or they stop and roll it back to the full backs. I’d like to see them decide to make a strong determined run to the centre and give themselves more options. They are currently all pace, no strength, and limited guile – both would do well to watch tapes and tapes of Henry, to see how to mix the quick with the slow.

    Then we had Ramsay. The phrase flattered to deceive has never so fit so snuggly. The injury seems to have effected him worse than it did Eduardo. I remember the player who used to frustrate me by trying to attempt far too many hollywood passes. Now I long to see him try just one. But he has hussle and he showed it yesterday. He has better days ahead.

    And is it just that. Stupid countless optimism say what you want, but I believe there are better days ahead for this team but goddamn, these injuries really need to stop

  46. our injury list is always big, its down to the build of the players and the training methods we use.

    having a manager who plays players even when the system brought in to prevent injuries tells him not to doesn’t help either, makes you wonder why we bother spending money on it if he’s just going to ignore it.

  47. Johnny,
    I’ve noticed we’ve been becoming ever more thankful for interlulls and other breaks in the recent months.

    Hopefully we get some of our injured players back in two weeks, especially Kos.
    We need Song back in midfield where he belongs.

  48. Tom

    >the training methods we use.

    A fallacy. The injuries at the moment are, aside from Squillaci’s, the result of impact in matches or in the case of Wilshere, having to play too many matches last season. Hardly the fault of training.

    >its down to the build of the players

    No its not. Sorry, that is just wrong. If it were true, Barcelona would have an injury list twice the length of ours.

    YW

  49. wankerwengermustgo

    Yeah, blame it on the injuries … going by AW’s excuses that some of you parrot, no other team in the league has an injury problem! Only at Arsenal – and that’s the primary reason we are 15th in the table. Pathetic! It’s obviously not got anything to do with having sub-quality players in the 1st 11 and to step in for the injured, or that the manager cannot see the wood for the trees or that he has no vision or strategy or passion or desire or a winning mentality or that the Board have refused to demand more – being quite content with a reasonably healthy balance sheet or …. that we just need a new manager! Yeah – its the injury list – that’s all that’s wrong at the Emirates …. sigh!

  50. Injuries have definatelty impacted on us, but in all honesty there were only 2 players missing from our 1st choice 11 at the weekend (Wilshere & TV5). All clubs have injuries and can’t really be used as an excuse.

  51. In 7 games, we have conceded a third of the goals we did the entire last season- which ended badly by any standards. As an arsenal fan, I see that something is wrong here, this team wont win anything as it is and someone bears responsibility for that. When LeCoq plays better than most of the experienced players in the squad, then something is just not right. As an arsenal fan, I will support the team through thick and thin but am just wondering if we haven’t been too patient. Shame that our most consistent defender is out- till December. Arsene has to pull a rabbit out of his hat this season to even gets us in 4th position.

  52. I ignore the press/doomers/spuds on days like this, they have nothing to offer. I thought most of our game was alright, with the exception of giving the ball away needlessly in the middle of the park and surprisingly. Ramsey seemed to be the main culprit. He just looks a little bereft, off the boil and generally out of sorts.

    The defence looks better, we finished the game better than we have done in a long time. It might not be good enough yet, but we have been terrible at seeing off a games of late. Plus look how far we have come since old Trafford. We were playing at home the team that is allegedly on the up, and at times we tore them apart – they beat us (unfairly VdV) by one at home. Enough said.

    We need some wins and the statistic of not losing more than four by the end of the season to challenge means that we are probably out of the title race – no surprises there, (we probably would have broken some record if we had won the title with that start to the season we have just had, But how many losses does fifth usually get?

    We want to keep the Spuds, ‘Pool and $hiite-y at bay, and we need max points from the next 10 excluding Chelsea. The warnings signs for the season are most definitely there, but what can we realistically expect and what are the touchstones to achieving that.

  53. I’m a proud member of what some derisively call AKB club.but my faith was sorely tested yersterday.was sending Per upfront arsene’s idea of a plan b. Per did nothing upfront.he didn’t challenge for headers. It was nice to see that wenger isn’t rigid in tactics.but. . . .really i don’t want see another game that creates the perception wenger is secretly taking lessons from sam aladyce

  54. Henristic

    I doubt Koscielny will be back in the first team once Vermaelen is fit unless AW is thinking of rejigging the side entirely and moving the Belgian forward.

    YW

  55. Yogi,
    Not really agreeing with Tom, but surely if our training regime gets the players too tired or fatigued, the risk of injury from impact during games is higher? Basically one can’t really rule out anything without further info.

  56. yogi… the build of the player is also relative to the conditions they have to play under. we play in a far more physical league than barca where far stronger challenges are allowed so i do think it counts. the more robust a player is physically the less chance there is of knocks and kicks having any serious impact.

    as for the training methods not coming into it, its widely know that we train to a very very intense level trying to give us the extra fitness to carry on at the same level in the 80th minute as we do in the 1st. putting a body through a far more intense regular training will of course take its toll on muscles, ligaments and tendons. the amount of muscle injuries we get has to relate to something don’t you think?

    as for jack, wenger knew and said publicly he played him “in the red zone” for 2 months, what was the point when we were out of the running for everything? wouldn’t it have made more sense to let him rest and recover making him far more likely to be fit for the start of this season?

  57. The more you know, the more you realise just how little you know

  58. before we get a defensive coach we should get some quality defenders, jenks is not good enough for the championship let alone a team that i heard wenger recently quote “we want to be the best team in the world” his statements concirn me. We simply do not have good enough players all over the pitch, our midfield is slow and without the ball, dreadfull. The fact that cocky was the best player tells you that. the ram, as i keep saying is also not good enough, he is slow and feeble against men, and more worring that that is that he is a slow thinker, never aware of his surroundings, i could go on but it wont change things, wenger is a problem and so are the owners, are they coming up with a plan to change things ???? there you go back to medeocracy, its a fact guys and galls we are a mid table team, im still there supporting and im fed up with critisising but dont ask me to happy with . best way is to focus on everthing but the cause and keep hoping that we can be the first ever to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear
    it

  59. The play leading to our goal was probably the most beautiful football you’ll ever see in the epl. The passing was sublime and the finish superb. Which is the irony with Ramsey. He had a poor game and yet more than once he was in the right place at the right time. Wenger knows that if he keeps playing him he’ll finally realize his true potential.
    Coquelin had a good game. He’s loan spell back home was definitely worth it. He had the better of Modric. Song was my man of the match and I think Wenger should consider playing him higher up the field than defensive midfield. He’s passing is sublime as well. Gibbs also had a great game. When he bulks up he’ll be a monster. And maybe a winger and not necessarily a defender. And I liked some of Walcott’s touches – in the first half anyway. There were moments that he reminded me of the great Ruud Gullit.
    We didn’t deserve to loose as we were the only team that played football properly.

  60. Tom

    Vermaelen’s was in the Champions League, Barcelona play there. Sagna’s seems more from trapping his studs in the grass.

    Training, we are intense but for 90 minutes. That’s it, AW doesn’t see the need for longer sessions. But these sessions are overseen by medical staff, as well as the coaches and readings taken all of the time, analysis completed. We don’t see that so to criticise training is not right because we don’t know the full story. Indeed, Gael Clichy said AFC’s training was light compared to City’s so who is right?

    I don’t disagree with you about Jack at all. I think it was a gross error of judgement on AWs part to continue playing him but in the circumstances at the end of last season, would you or I have done any differently? Hindsight says yes but in the thick of it? I think both of us would agree that Wilshere’s was the first name on the teamsheet which shows how bad it had got.

    YW

  61. I think the board should appoint WWMG as the new manager.

    Then when anyone questions me bout Arsenal’s plight I could pluck out my most surreal voice and exclaim. ‘Fish!’

    Either as the answer, or the questions I thought needs answering.

  62. SA – “The defence looks better, we finished the game better than we have done in a long time. It might not be good enough yet, but we have been terrible at seeing off a games of late. Plus look how far we have come since old Trafford. We were playing at home the team that is allegedly on the up, and at times we tore them apart – they beat us (unfairly VdV) by one at home. Enough said”

    There is so much wrong with what you have said I don’t know where to start.

    * The defence looked better – Tell that to our keeper who was faced with countless one on ones.
    * We tore them apart – Really? I doubt Friedel thinks that after making no saves at all.
    * How far we have come since Old Trafford – We lost. The fact that they didn’t score a hatful (mainly thanks to Szchezny) is not really progress is it?

  63. YW – Why on earth would he move TV5 forward. He has never played there; I really don’t understand people’s facination with this type of idea. If he could play there he already would have done by this stange in his career. If Wenger did do that I would start to agree with others that he has lost it.

  64. Kenyan – “The play leading to our goal was probably the most beautiful football you’ll ever see in the epl. ”

    I have no words.

  65. Kenyan – “And I liked some of Walcott’s touches – in the first half anyway. There were moments that he reminded me of the great Ruud Gullit.
    We didn’t deserve to loose as we were the only team that played football properly.”

    Apologies for my earlier comment. We were obvisouly watching differnt games.

  66. Arsenal Tom “theres something deeply wrong at the club, buying new players wont work (as we’ve seen) when theres no leadership or accountability”

    The way I see it is at least part of the problem is that our squad is not good enough and though we bought in some experience we didn’t secure a couple of real quality players which we clearly wanted. We went in for a few but we didn’t get them.

    I’m still of the belief we should have made Fab honour his contract for at least one more season (or until Barca agreed to pay something near his worth) – perhaps Wenger has too much integrity in this evil football world he inhabits. We let one of the best players in the world leave for a relative pittance whilst Tottenham held onto their best player against his wishes – the world continues to turn.

    Yes I know the situation is different and perhaps Wenger had made promises the summer before but the fact is he should never have given any assurances which did not include the caveat “If they make a reasonable offer”. There was nothing reasonable about that amount.

    Anyway it’s old news and I don’t want to get into a debate about it – I know many of you disagree but this is my opinion.

    Fabregas was handsomely rewarded as an Arsenal player and it’s ‘nice’ that he was accorded such respect by the club but by letting him leave so cheaply we effectively put his wishes above the club itself. The club should always come first and if that means we are not so ‘nice’ then so be it.

    So back to my main point – you can buy in star quality and see it make a huge difference. Do you not remember the galvanising effect signing Bergkamp had on the whole team? Look at Aguero at Man City. It doesn’t always work but the truth is you take more of a risk shopping at the low end of the market and hoping to find diamonds in the dirt.

    Modern football is about the strength of the squad and whilst I think our first team could be extraordinary I doubt I will ever know because they may never actually all be on the pitch at the same time.

    I shall now await news of RVP’s season ending injury whilst playing for Holland!

  67. Jonny – I agree 100% with the Cesc issue. We got well and truly screwed over in that deal. Basically we let one very good player, and one very special player leave in the summer. As replacement was got in a couple of good players. No more, no less. It is no suprise we are worse off for it.

  68. Did someone say top 5 difficulties?

    All in all, a bloody good year to go out and win the Champions League I reckon.

    Come on you goooners!

  69. the club has a business model for profit which goes not win games, but the owners profit, so it’s a success as far as they are concerned

    The only way to change it is to boycott the ground. The board can’t be sacked as they are the owners, and AW is only following orders

    They put on a show, like the west end and you pay to see the performance. However, you are not members of a club who can vote the board out like in a real club

    That is the problem

  70. SA – Heh, good to see your sense of humor.

  71. damn Jonny,
    a chicken little….you too???

  72. What to say…Be positive and move forward !! We are behind as long as the club remains..GOONER4LIFE!!!! Arsenal will come to their life after the internationals…!

  73. johnny… i agree mate, the fab situation is spot on but done to death. the problem with the fact we didnt get the real targets… m’vila, hazard, gotze is for me mostly down to timing… wenger going for these players so late first off stinks of desperation and secondly gives the selling club no time to get a replacement.

    we probably could have got 2 of those if we’d gone straight in after the season ended.

  74. If Coquelin moves to right back I’d want Frimpong as our defensive midfielder and Song and Ramsey ahead with some freedom to get forward. 1 goal and 3 assists and 1 goal and 4 assists tell me the pair of them are the way to go in terms of making things happen from midfield. At least until our front line gel a bit more.

  75. Spurs were average and yet they were too superior in creating chances. Arsene always looks for excuses. It is very sad hearing him complaining about confidence and so on. If he cannot build the confidence of the players, he has to resign.

    Arteta was like a begnning player. Playing with the ball rather than the players. He is no where close to be a winning player. very poor in passing the ball.

    No one was talking to the players even when they were looking for leaders.

    The team is destined to take to us to a very long season.

  76. Absolute rubbish yesterday.

    Even our best player ended up making a howler which ultimately cost us the game. Hardly his fault we lost though. He saved us from suffering another heavy defeat as our pathetic defence was too easily breached time and time again.

    Harry got it tactically wrong, we had an extra man in midfield & at times looked to be controlling the game and yet those hopeless losers still contrived a way to get beat. Our real problem now is the midfield is so rubbish we are struggling to keep possesion & create chances. This put’s an even bigger burden on our rubbish defence than in previous seasons.
    I mean Arteta & Benayoun! “I only want to buy super super quality”. Is that right Arsene…..

    To lose our only quality outfield defender for 3 months just twists the knife. That Jenkinson is a joke of a signing, another Stepanov’s/Bischoff/Vivas load of rubbish. I hope we will see Coq at right back.

    In years gone by Spurs had to play out of their skins just to get a point. Now they can play rubbish & pick up all 3.

    What are you doing Wenger? What are you fucking doing???????

  77. Exactly goonerandy, exactly. The annoying thing is it seems that Wenger went out of his way to get the club to sanction the deal. Wenger seems to have put the players ‘feelings’ first which is all the more remarkable because this is a ‘contractual job’ and a handsomely paid one at that.

    I’m not sure the companies I have worked for ever cared much about my feelings – they paid me money and I did stuff for them that I wouldn’t have ever bothered to do if they didn’t – that was the agreement!

  78. yogi… sagna’s i put down as a bit of a freak accident especially as his injury record is probably the best at the club currently.

    training intensley for 90 mins is going to be similar to playing 5/6 games a week then maybe? thats a huge exertion to put a body through, especially when allot of our players are still growing.

    if we look at people like gibbs, theo, rosicky, RVP, JD, diaby (even pre ankle break he admitted he’d never stayed fit for a whole season) they all get allot of niggly muscle injuries and strains, there has to be some link there rather than just ‘bad luck’

  79. goonerandy, of course we were watching different games. You were looking for the win. I was looking for the art AND the win!

  80. Keynan Gunner – “We didn’t deserve to loose as we were the only team that played football properly”

    You are simply deluded. I assume you don’t include defending effectively as part of “playing football”. Football isn’t ice skating, you know. There are no marks for artistic impression

  81. Kenyan – that’s admirable and whilst I like art it doesn’t pay the fucking bills!

    When it comes to Spurs I could care less if we won by covering ourselves in poo.

  82. Somewhat Agnostic

    The sad thing about yesterday, apart from losing, was also the manner of the loss. Firstly, Spuds, in my opinion, are not that wonderful a side.. not bad…but no world beaters..That’s my call on them.

    If we had lost an end to end thriller 3-2 or 4-3 we could probably excuse it to some bad luck or some minor moment in the match.

    What stands out for me as significant, compared to past Arsenal sides, was that Friedal was pretty much a spectator for the rest of the game after they went 2-1 up. The team did not seem to have the ability to really put the pressure on is goal. With a 1 goal advantage in previous NLD’s you would have been on the edge of your seat right up to the last second.

    But with hand on heart, who thought we would pull it back in the last 10 mins? I didn’t… I hoped and prayed.. but I was not confident. I can’t remember thinking we were out of a NLD before despite being only one goal down.

    i don’t know is it one step forward and one step back…or
    one step forward and two steps back.

    but it isn’t two steps forward and only one back at the moment..

    Worrying.

  83. goonerandy,

    The point of the game is to score and as such chances were made and blocked by both sides. A simple point, but it is an important one. You are not watching machines and there is no entitlement to win.

    Tottenham scored once justifiably and once because the player had to use his arm to control it. Arsenal scored once without unfair aid.

    This therefore was not the high scoring contest that your argument necessitates. In addition, while I appreciate your understanding of the layering of defence, you seem to imply that there are similar faults with the Barca and ManUre defences as both Valdes or De Gea definitely saved shots on target this weekend (and every other)

    As such I therefore stand by comments that the defence has looked a lot more solid. In addition shots like Gervinho’s, which was barely a foot wide, were not generated from outer space either and were clear opportunities created by a certain amount of carving up.

    Just remember, if you live by bile all you will see is tripe.

  84. Kenyan – I was looking for the win, you are right. Having posession but no penetration does not amount to art in footballing terms I am afraid.

  85. Neither RvP,Walcott or Gervhino are very effective if they dont get good passes from the midfield. not neccisarily the last assist, but a ball that makes them run, that makes it possible for them to create a chance. That is what is been lacking latley. Its no point having pacey wingers if we cannot utilise them. And atm they just aint getting the balls they need to be effective.
    Cesc did that for us, so did nasri. They opend up play. Who does that for us now? who starts the attack from the deep? who is orchastrating our attacking moves?
    4-3-3 demands extremly good players. i dont think we have the personell to do that atm. I think our midfield is to light, which is do be expecter after we sold two of the best ball players in England this summer. Arteta is great, but he is no cesc,or even a Nasri. He may become a nasri but hes nowhere close to as influential as the fenchman was.

    After Liverpool sold Alonso without replacing him properly they had a horrid season. Then they sold Masc and had an even worse. I can see many similarities between us and them right now.
    I hope AW has someone up his sleeve to come and help us push in January.
    But until then we have to support what we have and help them belive again.

    Not to take any credit away from Song which has been great this year, but it is a bit scary tho think about how he is our most creative player atm. That cannot be right! He should not be the only one that gives killer passes and opens the opositions defence. that is not why we bought Arteta and loaned Benayoun!

  86. SA Gooner – Well, it’s all relative, I suppose. If you compare yesterday’s defensive performance with that against Man Utd and Blackburn it was an improvement. But, it is still not good enough for a team of Arsenal’s level

  87. I’ll say it again because I mean it.

    This year, above all others and above all other goals, this is the year for Wenger to concentrate on winning the Champions League.

    Just F$*king Do It!

    Then I’ll where the trainers.

  88. but M we did not loose yesterdays game due to the defence. we lost it cos we did not create enough chances and were totally innefective infront of Tottenhams goal.

  89. theBigM, I have no idea about iceskating. It’s what you’d call summer all year around here.
    And Johnny, I’d rather go for a Mohamed Ali than a Mike Tyson. I always want the artistic value in everything!

  90. did we actually put them properly under preassure more than say 5 times during the entire match?? they were so laxed back there that even ledley king lasted an entire match!

  91. and Kenya atm its our artistic edge that is missing imo. there is nothing preatty about the game arsenal plays atm. its just plain boring to watch…no flair, no creativity 😦

  92. I knew Arsene had been good with money, but the statistic yesterday from Sky Sports claimed he has a P&L of -£16 million in the transfer market across 15 years at the club. That is about a loss of £1m per season on transfer fees. Plus we have a sensible wage structure against other top premiership clubs.

    Something to be proud of, but in the ever changing competitive world of football its not possible any more.That was the past, if we want to compete in the premiership and champions league we need to come up with a new system, if not then soon the only choice will be a new regime!

  93. Poodle, the moments before our goal were pure art. The passing was superb. The trouble is that we couldn’t keep it up for 90 minutes. It certainly wasn’t boring – to me anyhow!

  94. The big M

    Endeavours are a journey and all journeys have a direction, if the direction is the right one then we have to ask are the steps big enough. There is still some way to go no doubt, (Cahill at Crimbo may be a great way to cover that) but the comparison with the ManUre game is good here because this was our back up defence just like then. So in fact it does show the massive improvement in the squad.

  95. I’ve watched the game again. Tottenham had an extra gear when they needed it, we didnt. They did to us exactly what we used to do to them. Really dont understand how its come to this. We dont just need Wiltshire back, we need to invest a further £50-100 million to get back to where we were.

  96. SA – It wasn’t really our back-up defence yesterday. Gibbs, Sagna and Mertzsacker are all first choice. There are signs of improvement, I agree, but this was a much stronger defence than the one that faced Man utd.
    We do need to give Wenger some more time though, there were quite a few ingoings and out outgoings over Summer, so time will be needed for the team to gel (particularly in defence)

  97. After such a high turnover of players which many wanted, plus numerous injuries, including two or three of the most vocal or obvious chiefs within the team is such inconsistent form a massive surprise?

    Flicking through the history books, the last time a large chunk of the squad had to be rebuilt, we saw an autumnal change in tactics to help what were very young or inexperienced players. Limpar Assist’s little friendlies were instructed to drop anchor at the halfway line, Robin Van Persie decided to score every goal and get every assist (Ok, I exaggerate. A little.) during the middle third of the season. Robin became a decorated chieften with many fine feathers to show after that run, although for some like me he was top of the totem pole before that inspiration anyway.

    That squad also lost four games by November I think. And after some subtle tweaks went on a run. Bacary’s loss makes me weep. A massive blow, but someone else gets a chance, maybe Jenkinson, maybe the impressive and more experienced Coquelin will play there? Glad to see his performance against STFC wasn’t a flash in the pan. He’s a player!

    They’ll be OK.

  98. Just to clarify one thing… Spurs are not a better team than Arsenal. That was pretty clear yesterday. We dominated possession, had several key players out, lost our most consistent player during the game, yet we lost by goal.. 1 a sloppy goalkeeping error and 1 which was a clear yellow card.

    We didn’t do much in attack, but I feel we done enough to win the game had the referees done their job. We should be sitting here talking about how Van Der Fart fucked spurs chances up and not Wenger’s head. There is obvious parts of our game which need major improvements. The lack of drive and directness to create a chance when we need it most. The lack of thought and knowledge in creating that chance was even highlighted by the fact we didn’t loft the ball into Mertsecker. Then there’s the golden opportunity Gervinho missed. I thought he done well taking people on down the left in the 1st half but it just wasn’t enough. Walcott was so close in deciding the game on 2 occasions, yet so far.

    We are facing a tricky patch but I can see when it starts clicking it can work really well for us. I just fear it may now be too late for us to really challenge on the domestic front. Luck has played a huge part, there has been a substantial lack of it all so far this season – as always. We didn’t help create our own luck either.

    Lets not let a dodgy goal and Danny Rose bullshit goal cause further debate within our ranks. This team needed time to gel, so we just gotta deal with what we got.

    No time to stay and chat, keep it friendly gooners, we will be back up there!

  99. Thing is there were a number of shots taken when a pass would’ve put at team mate one on one. At least two or three times. That’s what I thought.

    Not ‘artistic’ enough? Or perhaps signs of a squad that needs to up it’s game in certain areas and continue with this ‘gelling’ process?

  100. well done stan…….your first achievment is to allow the spuds to get better then us….cant wait for what you have planed for us next.

  101. SA – You are looking at thnigs in a very complicated fashion, when it is anything but. They worked our keeper a number of times which suggests that our defending was not as improved as you make out. We for that matter, didn’t work their keeper at all. That was my point.

  102. Chrisgoona, thats whats so worrying when you watch the game again. Tottenham didnt even play well, Modric was woefull, yet they still created at least 5 clear cut chances (not including the goals). Add to that the fact that Friedel hardly touched the ball, god knows what will happen now sagna is out.

  103. Chris Goona – Usual excuses: we had injured players (every team does), we had more possession (yawn), the ref did us (bigger yawn), bad luck (that old chestnut)
    In the game I saw, Spurs created many more chances than us and if it wasn’t for szeschny we would have lost by more. We were in no way the better team and did not do enough to win.
    There were encouraging signs and I think we will improve, but we were not unlucky to lose.
    Of course, we are not going to challenge for the league. We came fourth last year and have lost our best two creative players. What planet are you on? We are fighting for fourth place, no more, no less.

  104. Dukegoonem?

  105. Shows you how bad things are when few people are going overboard over the win. Like it was totally expected. Front page news on the grauniards footy website is on Redknapp complaining about the Adebayor chants, rather than the loss itself. Seems like the arsenal-in-crisis headlines don’t even get hits anymore?

    Opposing fans rarely take the piss any longer too…. Few spurs fans have come on here to gloat.

  106. I think one a fully fit squad basis we are a little stronger than Spurs. Sundays game was not the case and it was truly men against boys. Arsenal lacked passion and drive and that’s why they lost. Arteta… I expected much better from him. Song currently looks like he needs to play in the creative midfield spot because as much as I love Rambo he’s just rubbish right now. Without Song’s brilliant pass he couldn’t score a goal. RVP looks lost up front as this formation we’re running clearly isn’t gonna win us any matches. Where was Ox? Not even on the bench? Why???? Mertesacker looked better than he had the past few games but he’s still too slow and I blame him for one of the goals conceded. Gervinho’s dip in form couldn’t come at a worse time. We are in a total crisis of confidence right now and a truly great manager would be able to right the ship and get them boys to winning on a consistent basis. Wenger just seems apathetic right now. I don’t see or hear any passion coming from the man. January can’t come soon enough but I fear by then we will have lost all chances of salvaging the season. Currently I’d be thrilled if we even qualify for Europa.

  107. The game itself was fairly even. The main difference was that the Spuds had penetration, where we had very little. Add to the mix our now expected defensive cock ups, and there is your result.

  108. chrisgoona | October 3, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    I wouldn’t call having 51-55% possession “dominating”. How should we describe those games when we saw 60-70% of the ball then?

  109. The Scum are always going to fashion chances at home in a frenetic derby game.
    And obviously they made a few more after Arsenal’s best defender went off.
    In spite of that, they only scored more then Arsenal thanks to a handball.

  110. Too many passengers in the side at the moment.

  111. Jabba's Delights

    We didnt deserve anythign out of yesterdays game. They could have and should have socred more we created very little.

    At what point does a continuation of these abject perfroamces mean than some will realise that the current manager isnt the person to take us forward.

    All i keep hearing from these people is that wenger is a genius and that eh is the only man for the job………………The team has looked poorly coached and motivated for ages.

    The manager should have until xmas to save his job. The board should be loooking at long term alternatives now so that they can have january to inject some passion and quality into the squad.

  112. Can someone please give me one reason, a good reason, why the fuck we didnt sign Rafael Van Der Vaart? If we had gone in for him, he would of signed, simple as that.

  113. Jabba – I believe Wenger should be given more time to allow the new players to gel. There were a lot of changes over the summer and we have to back him for now.
    However, things still look pretty stale, in terms of the football being played at the moment and what we do without the ball does not seem to be greatly improving. I would like to see some new coahes brought in and fresh ideas injected into the team. I also think other teams have worked Wenger. I think he has the end of the season to turn things about, if there is no improvement, we should be looking for someone else.

  114. Stanley M

    Because he’s no good at Twister.

    YW

  115. I wonder if some of the above forgot about how Spain went about winning the WC. Or even saw it.

    People called it defensive possession, something we’ve seen Arsenal teams do a lot of when everything is clicking and they are playing well. One critique could be they aren’t doing it enough at the moment. At least, that makes more sense then stating that a team that has had more possession Away in a super fast paced NLD has not dominated the game for periods, something even the partisan David Pleat has said about yesterday’s game.
    Then again, I’m not attempting another hilarious and brilliant wind up.

  116. Get yourselves together GOONERS!
    We lost to Spurs, we are 17th, we all feel pain
    but we must play together.

    Still too much of the season left
    Can’t throw in the towel quite yet
    I mean if I did..WHY BE A GOONER?

    I remain POSITIVE.

  117. Hi Yogi,

    A sleepless, desperate night. And I know I am not alone. A silly sport that reaps such havoc on your mental and physical well-being. And it was the spuds sealing an unbelievable start to the season.

    On the bright side, we are still in our pre-season. When the lads settle this season might well be over but it promises more for next season. Then there’s the Jan’ transfer window when the spend, spend, spend clamour will resurface and new blood will be let. Then there’s the

  118. A dissapointing result following a marginally improved performance. Some players outshining others. No Spurs were not superior just more tactically astute and capitalised on our mistakes. The two goals conceded were well taken and not from set pieces. Bale only had a field day when Sagna and Theo left the field. No team can survive with the whole backbone of the team missing…yes that is the whole of our first choice midfield and defence. There is unfortunately an imbalance in the make up of the team now as a result. Questions are obviously going to be asked. Until we can defend coheseively as a team and hold onto the ball we are going to struggle and we cannot make excuses about personnel because all Arsenal teams should be able to keep hold of the ball at least. It goes without saying that if we dont defend from the front, midfield looses the ball and doesnt create or provide a foil for the defence and our strikers dont capitalise on opportunities then we will struggle.We need to learn how to keep hold of the ball again or buy a ball player in January. Arsenals game is built on good ball distribution and posession and attack with nasri, cesc or jack as the fulcrum of the attack.Once we have our injured players back we WILL be stronger. We look bereft of ideas at the moment and someone needs to stand up. Lets hope the two weeks break brings about happier times. Onwards and upwards.We will win the return.

  119. One thing that really stood out yesterday is without Fabregas, Nasri, Wilshere in the side, we lack any genuine midfielder who is constantly showing for the ball, and capable of taking posession under pressure and using it efficiently.

    Our art, our advantage our reason d’etre of possesion football is diminishing. Without said players we simply are not good enough in possesion. Coquelins distrubtion was excellent yesterday, other than that – every other player (bar the tireless RVP) gave the ball away consistently in the most obscure of scenarios. Not only do we greatly lack that attacking threat moving forward, we seem incapable of doing the basics right.

    My other greatest worry is that despite obviously having talented footballers in the squad, the belief is gone. This is telling on Wenger and his coaching staff.

    AFter the first the body language of our players was terrible – where was the leadership? where was the mental strength and spirit we hear so much about.

    Wenger obviously rallied the troops at HT – we started strongly and got our deserved equaliser – where was the on-field general to guide the troops?

    Aside from Jack & TV (our spine), that was our best side.

  120. I am not one that has been doom and gloom and over the last 5 years I have defended our “rebuilding” and “team of the future” approach to the tranfer market but if you build a team you dont sell the key members of the team that you have built it around.

    In sport if you don’t win what you set out to win you must improve next time. The fact that the competition that did better than you is improving, means you have to match their improvement and add some to achieve a higher position in the league, cup or competition.

    Put these two together and you realise the fundamental problem at our club, we are always rebuiding because we are removing the key building blocks like in a game of jenga. By doing this we are not improving at all, let alone matching the improvement of our rivals. We are weakening a team that didnt achieve its goals last season whilst those around us improve. We will do worse than last season for sure, by how much is the question.

    If it is the board being more concerned with the finances than achievement on the pitch they should have managed the fans expectations and not told us every season we want to be the best in the world and win the league. By now we would understand the financial constraints, not take Champions League football for granted and be right behind the team trying to achieve our now lowered level of expectation.

    If the board are concerned by footballing achievements and have given Wenger the transfer funds from sales plus the season budget which has not been spent because of the manager, then the manager is at fault. If the manager is at such grave fault as to have spent 5 years building a team only to destroy it, panic buying replacements thus going against the whole 5 year plan then the manager must take responsibility. This is a professional industry and Wenger has failed in his job, unfortunately we all know what failure should lead to in professional industry even if we dont know who could replace him at the moment.

    It pains me to say it but no one should be resting on past achievements and over the last 5 seasons Wenger has failed. He is no longer one of the best managers in the world, I think he was the best in the world at one point but he has been in decline for a while, we will all go into decline at some point in our careers and I am sure we will all not get 5 years grace when this happens.

  121. Jabba,

    I will allow you your moment in the Sun.

    Let’s forget the effort of bringing a new team together during the season. Let’s forget the mounting injury list. Let’s forget the nature of their second goal from a keeper who has been (by common consent) the best in our league thus far. Let’s forget everything except the ability to simplify a world in which we wish to pin blame on the unfortunate!

    Your sunbed awaits.

    Enjoy

  122. When things are going slightly wrong, you look to the “matchwinners” in the team to pull something from the hat. We have one in RvP and that is it.

    For that reason alone is why M City are serious contenders for the lge (I am not coparing us against them as that is obviously stupid given the cash availabe there). They have a ton of them.

  123. Thats the problem Marcus – some feel Wenger must get it right purely because of what he achived in the first half of his tenure. He is an absolute legend and should always command the highest accolade of respect available to him.

    What he has achieved for the game of football and Arsenal football club is beyond reproach – but it doesnt mean he is bullet proof, it doesnt mean he is infallible.

    Ive said many time previously on here that I would feel sick to the core if he leaves the club having dismantled everything he built. He is on the verge of setting Rome on fire.

    But that is the way its going. Some have been able and willing to identify flaws and actions negatively affecting the clubs performance for over three years, some are too staunt and passionate in thier defence of the man.

    This is not a blip. This is the form of the side. It has been since Feburary. The only difference is we have lost two of our and Europes finest players and not replaced them – and as you correctly point out, we have not matched our peers development, we have not even tried, especially after we turned a huge profit from player trading. Again.

  124. That is half the frustration of the fans I feel. We talked about only signing “super super quality” and failed to do so. Some of the players we signed are good players, of that there is no doubt. But “super super quality”? Not by a long shot. Yet we sold two players who would fit into that bracket (although given Nasri’s contract situation our hand was forced there).

  125. It is not the same side that was taking the field in February.

    For one, you’d have had Eboue come on.

    Self declared Realists won’t remember, but Eboue once came on in a game (CC, their team vs the kids) at the Lane, alongside Hleb, and turned the match.

  126. Why the constant need to over exaggerate or twist the truth and facts when making a criticism. Plenty of fine examples above where that was not necessary. Very odd.

  127. Dgob

    His moment in the sun? Do you genuinely believe any ARSENAL fan is enjoying anything that is happening at present?

  128. Finsbury – I would have loved to have Eboue availbale to replace Sagna on Sunday. He was a bit of a clown, but decent cover at right back without doubt.

  129. Over exagerrate and twist the truth Finsbury?

    Do you need me to show you our last 30 results in all competitions? Or because it carries over two season and our management has failed to install consistency does the woeful run of games become redundant??

  130. Also Finsbury, you touch on a great point. Eboue – as stated by many on here, was the best reserve RB in the league, and that his swap – effectively – for Jenkinson was a) a huge gamble, b) destrengthening the squad

    Now, who was the sole person responsible for the change in the squad make up?

  131. Benayoun and Arteta are the types of signings Tottenham used to make. Van Der Vaart and Adebeyor are the types of signings we used to make.

  132. I believe that Arsenal is officially fighting relegation. we have managed 7 points out of a possible 21 points. That’s relegation standard…

    What and where is this handbrake that Arsene keeps referring to? He must take it off the team, clearly he put it there?

  133. Luke, It was the fans who made Wenger sell Eboue. It was the fans who make Gervinho and walcott go missing when it matters, It was the fans who let Sandro stroll through to the byline completely unchallenged. If you are going to blame someone, blame our fans.

  134. What a load of old bollocks on here today.
    We lost by an odd goal ,away from home ,with new players not yet bedded in,injuries ,against a club that has spent a fortune,and it took a hand ball goal to do it.
    Do we have problems?Yes
    Will we fix them ? perhaps
    Will crying and moaning make it better?

    I have to agree with Luke(farkin hell egh?) 4 3 3 should be binned.

    Also we should understand the difference between being gutted ,like me.And being gutted and having to face a Spurs fan every time you turn your head.

  135. George – by all accounts, we have spent more than Spurs since Redknapp took over.

    Parker & VDV cost the same as Oxo – give or take a few million, for example. They have, sickenigly, have bought well.

    We also have a wage bill some 50 odd million greater than them

    Financially, we absolutley smash them out the park – for how long remains to be seen, terrible year on year results announced today, prospect of no CL football damaging to our sustainability. Probably why we have built up such a significant cash balance from player sales.

  136. Luke .
    Arsene is here for at least 2 years
    We cant buy anyone until January and even then it is unlikely top players will come.
    We have what we have.
    We have mulled over the why’s and where’s about how we got here and nothing new has been said for months.
    At the moment the team is average.But we are where we are .All we can do is support.Hope and hope some more.

  137. Great post Yogi:

    Very glum day indeed. I really thought we could get a draw out of that game. The last few years its taken 70 – 75 points to get 4th place. We have 48 to play for at home and 45 on the road. If we can get 40 points at home and somehow get 25 on the road we will have 72 points and may be nick 4th place. Going to be a tough but still can be done. We need to get going soon.

  138. Luke said, “George – by all accounts, we have spent more than Spurs since Redknapp took over.” Actually Luke that is not true at all, in fact Arsenal’s last 6 years spending has been the net lowest of any premiership club including the teams promoted and relegated in that time frame. Arsenal are the only team during that period to actually have a net transfer gain as opposed to a loss, Football Intelligence has all the needed information.

    Arsenal are not the side of the invinicibles and it is not like we didn’t know that already so stop trying to measure this team by those standards, because every team in the league would fail along side that team today.

    We lost, it was painful but it is what it is and now that some of you have managed to get your heads around the idea that we are an average team I hope your expectations are right where they need to be.

    The Arsenal side yesterday was more than capable of winning that game, they did not. It is not the first game where we’ll see more spurned opportunities in front of goal and I have no idea why at those important moments we seem to not get it. But this BULLSHIT about Arsene out is really starting to get on my tits with dumbass f**ks talking shit about crap they know nothing about. For all you f**king expert arm chair managers, name 1 manager in the world right now capable of running Arsenal as the invinicbles with the budget constraints, including transfer and wages and expecting us to run away with the league? Yeah, exactly!

    Yogi, I get it hurts but the thing about pain is that if it doesn’t kill you it make you stronger. Arsenal deserve some of the crass, myopic and insipid press they are getting but the problem is they are continually touted as a potential champions even after there squad as been depleted. If we make the CL this year then great, if we do not then we’ll manage it without the CL, either way the club well still be here. There is a chain of thought that says that if the club does finish mid-table then perhaps those money men well realise you cannot have your cake and eat it to. Arsenal have been spolit by having a man such as Wenger in charge, if only the players took responsibility in paying back the man that gave them the stage on which to perform, then we would be in a better place.

  139. Thanks PG, I know we don’t always agree on everything

  140. @YW “Arsenal did not do enough to merit a win.”

    Yes, very true. 2-1 was not an unfair result. It could have been far worse. Parker, Van der Vaart, Defoe, Adebayor and Bale all had very good chances that were not converted. Apart from the goal, the best chances I can recall for us were a couple of pot-shots from Theo, 3G’s miss and a Ramsay near-post flick-on. I thought Arteta was okay yesterday (not great), but it seems he created more chances in his first ten minutes as an Arsenal player (admittedly, it was against Swansea) than he has done since. When we were on top, we couldn’t convert the pressure into a goal, and once we went behind, we really didn’t create very much, particularly after they brought on Sandro.

    @Alan1029 at 9:51 am Re Clive Allen

    “To be fair to Wenger, Allen often has rather a lot to say during games, a characteristic that used to rile Martin Jol when he was manager, never mind opposition benches.” – Sam Wallace, The Independent

    It’s a bit like a fan abusing a player all match and then complaining when the player refuses to provide an autograph.

    @drew10 -positive gooners FB page, chrisgoona and others

    Thank you for attempting to lift the gloom!

  141. I have not been able to read the posts until here so far, and won’t be able to do so until tonight.

    However, I wanted to say a couple of things from what I have seen and also which occurred to me.

    Yes, AW churns out the same old platitudes one after the other, but what else can he say? Over the years, he has refused to critisize his players in publc, so is unlikely to change now and quite rightly. Critisism is for direct man to man, not the public.

    We have a large squad and yet we pick up these long injuries ,which tear the heart out of the squad. Does that happen to everyone?

    No matter how big the squad is, if 3 or 4 of the best players get long term injuries, whoever is there to replace them is not likely to be as good, or fit in as well.

    WE have hardly played 2 successive games with the same back 4. No wonder we conceed.

    They say that bad refereeing decisions even themself out over the season. I trust that “they” are right.

    After only 7 games, what do we have.

    Newcastle. A clear penalty denied. Another one denied by the assault on 3Gs.If the ref thought it was a dive, why did he not book him?

    Liverpool. There first goal, albeit an own goal, resulted from a shot by a player who received the ball having bee offside. Would they have scored the second, if there had not been the first? Who knows, but the first goal was cruial.

    Blackburn. The 3rd and crucial goal was offside. Would they have gone on the win wiothout it. I doubt it.

    Spurs Their 1st goal should have been dissallowed for handball, and Van der Vaart sent off.

    AS someone said yesterday, now we know that Hoddle knows nothing about football. He certianly knows nothing about mechanoics Having been adamant that the ball did not hit his arm, he then went on to say that he could not understand the previous booking. So, in Hoddle’s world a 2 footed challenge after the ball has gone is acceptable. Did he enjoy those when he was playing?

    Even Gary Nevllie, not onje of my favourite people, said that it was clear that his arm touched the ball from the way he, Van der Vaart, was standing. If it had not hit his arm how come it went straight down and not away from him. I suppose we will ahve to wait for Van Der Vaart’s memoirs for him to admit the truth.

    Our cup is neither half empty, nor is it half full. What seems to me to be clear is that confidnece is important, and that that is what we do not have. No soubt Szchezny’s confidence will now go out of the window after his howler yesterday.

  142. Somewhat Agnostic

    Miami, perhaps Luke was referring to total spend meaning.. Transfer fees plus salaries?

    He can of course correct that if wrong.. that’s how I took it?

  143. Second Liverpool goal was also from an off side.

  144. Arsene’s average spend it £1 million per year on transfers.

  145. arsenal has been a football club that is less then the sum of it’s parts for several years now. The teams has consistently played below the level you would expect given it’s talent since the Birmingham game in 07/08. Different players have come and gone. We have basically completely turned over the squad since then. We have gotten rid of or lost an entire generation of young players that we all thought would be dominating the PL by now. Despite all this turnover we continue to have the same problems that we have struggled with for 4 years. The only constant has been the coaching staff.

    I still don’t believe Wenger should be sacked but he has to take the blame for what has happened the last several years and he has to take the blame for what is happening now. No manager in the world has the level of control over their club that he now has. I have been saying for a long time but it’s time for the boss to shake up his coaching staff and start to delegate some of his authority. although warning signs have been there for several years, the last couple of years have seen much more rapid deterioration in the quality of the playing staff and worse the mentality of the players, fans and our whole organization. Time to make some changes has long past.

  146. The worse part for me yesterday was not the loss, it was that yet another Arsenal player finished the game with an injury.

  147. Good post Bill

  148. Miami

    I was referring to Redknapps tenure – why did you use stats for 6 years, and not nett spend, gross. Outlay on fees mate, no more, no less.

    George said Spurs had spent loads of money, I said that wasnt true, and we had in fact spent more than the yids in Redknapps tenure (were the gulf in class has reduced drastically), which is true. I dont know why you focuse on the nett spend of 6 years?

    Selling Nasri, Fabregas, Adebayor, Toure for £100million probably helped.

  149. George

    Is that an impressive stat when:

    a) we know he has more resources available
    b) we always seem to buy “cheaper” options, whose lack of genuine quality cost us valuable points

  150. Luke, I used 6 years because it was the time frame I recently investigated to check transfer details of all clubs. I believe that Tottenham are the 6th highest wage bill in the EPL behind Arsenal whom are 5th. The net spend I am referring to is indeed purely transfer spending does not equate wages or for that matter bonuses or indeed tax dodging.

  151. Miami fair enough – but that means I wasnt wrong in my statement to George!

  152. Luke, fair enough, can you let me know ehere you gathered the figures from?

  153. *where

  154. Miami Arsenal

    Your rant misses two fundamental points and makes one point to support the failure of Wenger:

    1. The fact that you personally cant see a replacement is not a valid argument for keeping someone in control of a football team. It is up to the board to make the decision of who would be capable of filling his boots and I wouldn’t like to mention anyone for fear of being called an “armchair board member”. Football managers of any quality are always in employment so it is exceptionally hard to identify a potential suitor. I agree there is no one “avaliable” to replace him but in football, contractual availability means nothing.

    2. The discussion is not to achieve the status of the invincibles, as by their very record breaking nature there is no manager who has achieved such an accolade. Also no one is running away with the league so that is not expected either. I am asking to challenge for the title like we are lead to believe is our target by those in employment at the club. If those people employed by the club tell us that is their goal and then admit failure of that after 7 games of a 38 game season then surely they have failed in their job?

    3. Whilst I agree the players are not performing, the nature of a managerial role in any business or team is exactly that. The job of getting the best out of those beneath you to strive to meet your targets, this is another failure.

    It is a painful realisation because Arsene is a legend and one of the greatest managers ever, I would have loved to see him go on a high and not under these circumstances but the football club is what is important not Arsene Wengers reputation.

    Loosing three quality players (Fab, Nasri and the always forgotten Clichy), being stubborn enough not to replace them until getting spanked by our arch rivals, subsequently panic buying average players to quell the unrest about not spending money and then be sat 15th in the league after 7 games. Tell me who really is at fault please because I want to meet them?

  155. transferleague.co.uk

    In the last 3 summers, Redknapp has spent c.£52 million

    We have spent c.£77 million

    Spurs did spend an absolute KILLING with Jol / Ramos though.

  156. Marcus thats a brilliant post. Not a rant, not doom mongering, just a painful reposite from a fan who cares. We are stuttering massively – thier is only one person who the buck ultimately stops with.

  157. ‘Arsene’s average spend it £1 million per year on transfers.’

    Six years of this and now we currently stand at No.17 in the table.

  158. MarcusF, my point about arm chair managers is aimed at everyone of us that seem to employ the “I Know Better” than him strategy with regards to comments offered on this blog. You want Arsene out, fine, it isn’t up to me but if it happens then you are of course right the club is bigger than the man. Professional sport and the failings of players are always carried by the manager, I get it. Lets kick him to the curb now and be done with it. So who is personal choice to take over? What are his expectations for the season? Hell, you know what lets ask Redknapp to do it because according to the press he is the greatest manager to appear on the scene since Ferguson himself.

    It’s a game, you win you lose it happens, they are playing so they are in essense challenging for the title. What are you suggesting that is going to make the challenge easier?

    Finally, contracts, ya those things that have no sway in the modern game. We lost fab because he wanted to go, we lost Nasri because he wanted to go and yeah we lost Clichy because he wanted to go. So we should have held on to them against their will? Or we should have found adquate replacements? Who are these replacements that were going to change Arsenal’s 6 year drought around? Once you have identified them, let me know how much they are going to cost? Oh, and whilst we are at it, let me know how you are going to get their clubs to sell them at the price you are willing play.

    Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

    I don’t care at this point is Arsene is forced out, there are elements of your comments that have total truth in them but we all must realise that Arsenal is a business and unlike the other clubs in the league they actually want to make a profit. I want silverware as a fan not cash, but I don’t run the club and so I am left to ponder just what is on the horizon that is so amazing that we can force the manager out now.

    It may sound bitchy, it wasn’t mean as such just tired and lacking coffee.

  159. Imagine if wenger hadnt stumbled accross Szczesny.

  160. Cheers Loosecannon, if you refine it down to 6 years their spending was even worse and during that time only 3 clubs had turned a profit, Arsenal, Man Utd (Ronaldo transfer) and Wolves. I am talking transfers only again.

  161. Some of you people are complete and utter arseholes. Some are turning into arseholes…you know who you are. The game had draw written all over it and Arsenal certainly did not deserve to lose. There were signs all over the pitch that we are beginning to get some real form back. There was a period in the second half when the Spuds could not get near the ball, our passing and movement was fantastic. Our pressing was excellent at times too. They were frightened of us and scored two ridiculous goals. We need to hold the ball up more and take less risks, but that will come. We will build on that…and gradually we will inch our way back into contention. Looking forward to it.

  162. Miami, you can’t talk transfers without talking wages also. We are a team who have constantly competed for the title (fair play to AW) and here we are 7 games into the season and our manager tells us that the title is now “unrealistic”. If that’s not failure then what is???????

  163. Wrong Markus. Who the fuck do you replace Fabregas with anyway? who should we have signed instead? how do you know we could have got them anyway? do you have insider knowledge of the club’s transfer dealings?
    We can’t compete with the Arabs or Chelsea or Man Utd in the transfer market. That is the basic fact of the matter. Unless Fifa’s fair play rules really do mean just that (and don’t hold your breath) then we never will compete. Not for the foreseeable future.Those days are gone. If you can’t stomach it, then your better of not supporting the club at all. People mutter about wage structures and such like, but that doesn’t approach the heart of the matter. We are now struggling to compete at the highest level. To lay all the blame at Wenger’s feet is ludicrous and blinkered. He’s kept us near the top, punching well above our weight for years. This is the first serious “crisis” (or whatever you choose to call it) we have faced under him. And it’s one I believe he’s been largely powerless to do much about.
    He may have made mistakes, but as someone pointed out in the Guardian’s comments section today, give him a season at Man City, with their resources, and he’d win the league by a country mile. If we had Mancini we’d probably sink even further.

  164. JD, you see it as a failure. I was more realistic about our title aspirations, we are a weakened side at the moment fighting for a top 6 finish. Did you honestly think looking ar Arsenal’s year injury crisis and squad and think we were going to win the league? We are competing against teams now with no budgets at all, none. Is that an excuse, hell no, Arsenal should be better than 15th but the fact is we are not the same quality as Man Utd, man City or Chelsea at the moment, deal with it because no amount of whinging is going to change that fact.

  165. To replace Fabregas you’d have to buy Xavi or Iniesta, at a cost of at least 50 million.
    Do people honestly believe Hazard will join us with our current squad? I cant believe im saying this but spurs are a better prospect then us at the moment. If van persie doesnt sign over christmas then he will be gone as well, we might as well prepare mentally for it now because its going to hurt like hell.

  166. Frank, at last, where have you been! Quite right – the stats say draw draw draw. which wouldnt have been bad for a tough away game.

  167. I like it eden… to many get frustrated to quick and forget what we have to work with. I said it before, saying it again… we have been spolit for years and now things are difficult we all run around with our heads cut off.

  168. Stanley, alas I agree I cannot see RvP staying and it would be better for Arsenal to once again get value for him than not.

  169. Eden,

    But for goodness sake I expect us to compete with Tottenham, Birmingham City and Newcastle. This is not so much that we are beaten by United and Liverpool (whom your argument does not really apply to again) it is the chasm in quality I saw at United, the thoroughly embarrassing scoreline, the fact that lesser teams are not as humiliated. I did not expect us to win the league but it seems we are not even trying for fourth.

  170. Klon, the United result hurt but it was a freak scoreline. I am not taking anything away from the result we were poor and paid the price. The game against Tottenham was decided by a cracking goal where the ball moved in the air and I feel for us once again but we had chances to put that game away as well, we just did not. If you look at the swansea game, we have 27+ shots in that game and scored 1 goal. This season we have been poor in front of goal.

  171. Eden, I am not MarcusF, I think your post was aimed at him because I didn’t say anything like that.

  172. Luke,

    You and Jabba are better placed to answer your question than I. My own opinion is blatantly obvious.

  173. I don’t know about you all, but I was disappointed with the substitution choices made in the second half of the game. The thing is Arsene saw it differently and again it is easy for me to critique it post the result.

  174. Miami:

    The frustrating thing is that we did not have to make a transfer profit during much of that period. if we had spent some of that money there is a reasonable chance we would not have to be talking about a 6 year drought right now. Having a transfer profit is a choice we have made and is not one that we should be proud of given what’s happening now.

    The brilliance of Wenger is that he built a squad which had realistic title chances using that budget. However he has not been able to get those players to perform as a team to the level that their ability would indicate they are capable. Consistent underperformance is the ultimate failure of management. I think the current squad is not the quality that we have come to expect and large part of the blame for that rests on the fact that we have made a transfer profit for several years. Even so I still think this squad has enough quality to challenge for 4th place. We still might make a challenge but the fact that we are not currently anywhere close has to rest with the coaching staff.

  175. well, well, well…

  176. oh dear, oh dear, oh dear…..

  177. easy Yogi, I can’t be bothered to rant…

  178. Bill said “The frustrating thing is that we did not have to make a transfer profit during much of that period. if we had spent some of that money there is a reasonable chance we would not have to be talking about a 6 year drought right now. Having a transfer profit is a choice we have made and is not one that we should be proud of given what’s happening now.”

    Bill, I totally agree with you. The erosion of the squad has been happening for a while and there is a substantive argument that says “why was it necessary to such a degree”.

    Of all the comments I can attribute to the man, the one that gets me the most for Arsene is the one where he stated “I want Arsenal to make a profit every year, I don’t feel like I have done my job unless they do” (not verbatim). It is his economic degree talking obviously, but it makes the point clearly that as the manager is it really his job to worry about the finances of the club or just manage the team.

  179. my hat goes off to some individuals who are beginning to see the things for what they are…

  180. Great post as always YW, and God I hate Tottenham too. Another Hail Mary strike just like at Dortmund, and just like at Dortmund this guy will never score another like it. If it had been us who scored you can bet the media would claim we were just lucky and did not deserve it but against us it is considered a piece of genius.

    I have to admit to not even reading one comment as I just know the doomers are out in force. I think it was Consolbob who said yesterday before the game that there were very few people posting comments. I believe that was because we had won 3 in a row and the doomers were in hiding. But today it is a case of pouring on the misery and I am sure they are out in ful force. I shall take a guess that 1 out of every 3 comments is demanding AW’s head on a platter? Demanding we spend 150 million on 4-5 world class players while ignoring the fact that such expense would destroy the club? (I am not looking for a debate on that point Doomers, so do not bother trying to start one, it is simply my opinion.)

    No penalty at Newcastle, instead our player gets sent off.
    Offside goal at Blackburn but it is given.
    Handball by Van Der Vart but the goal stands.

    To me that is 5 points. And a whole lot of sour grapes to be sure. I cannot deny that but I will not stop supporting my team and its manager because of it. A lousy start to the season but then again I have been an Arsenal fan for 30 years so I am more used to it than not. Any fan who is not should thank AW for feeling different. Under him we have played the best football in the EPL, at times in the world. I have faith he can turn it around but more importantly I have never been shown by anyone who can take his place.

    One last point which I am sure has been lost along the way but my mate Owen who is a Spud, was almost crapping his pants for about 15 minutes in the second half as every time we got the ball we were pouring forward. On another day we would have scored but as it turned out they did with a once in a lifetime shot and nobody was more surprised by it then Owen.

    Have faith Gooners, all is not lost I promise 🙂

  181. moan, moan, moan, I am sure you had no complaints last season when Chamakh was winning one debatable peno after another, eh?

    spending £150M would destroy the club? you will never know, as we are not even spending what we have…

  182. Suga3, only 150 million since you are playing moonopoly why not 3 billion

  183. Suga3, the fabregas and nasri money will now have to supplement the lack of champions league revenue. So dont expect anything big in january or even next summer. Were digging ourselves a hole it could take a good few years to recover from.

  184. Klon,

    Wenger has had to rebuild the team again, with absence of F*******s and the little lesbian. the spine of the side, if you like. We are not in the position to cherry pick replacements of the great transfer olive branch. Add to that the usual stack of injuries piling up, and it’s been an horrendous start to the season, make no mistake. We will turn it around though, when the team starts to gel. There were signs of that in the 2nd half, for anyone who cared to look. The totts practically parked the bus for ffs.

    Apologies Markus. I got me Markus mixed up with me Marcus. Type thing.

  185. MA,

    first of all, the £150M bit was in response to this:

    Demanding we spend 150 million on 4-5 world class players while ignoring the fact that such expense would destroy the club? (I am not looking for a debate on that point Doomers, so do not bother trying to start one

    secondly, let’s forget about the football side of things: I am not sure you appreciate the potential severity of out situation as far as our financing is concerned if we continue lagging behing on the commercial side of things..

    this has got all the markings of a disaster, if we continue slipping into mediocrity, how can we attract sponsors or players with no European footy to offer?

    let’s not kid ourselves, qualifying into that crappy Europa league will be a tall order, let alone top four finish…

  186. The Cescnas quid will come into good use when the shit from the world financial crisis hits the fan.

  187. Stanley M,

    I fully agree, some people seem to think that it’s easy to get back into the CL once you are out of it, which is complete bollocks…

  188. Everytime I see Van Der Vaart i feel cheated he’s not an arsenal player. He provides them match winning moments we so desperately lack Yes it was handball but the finish was sublime. Gervinho and walcott lack that kind of class. As for Ramsey, hell, I dont know what was wrong with him. It was nothing to do with being scared of another injury thats for sure.

  189. The only reason why Friedel was not tested much wasnt because we didnt have good chances or the Spurs were defending so well. We didnt take we didnt take our chances, we shot wide or high for whatever reason. Thats the game for the most part.

    I dont know where this Spurs were the better team is coming from and how we didnt deserve anything! The Spurs were only the better team after we had to chase the game. In the first half especially they didnt do much apart from the handball goal, it was all Arsenal, at their place mind you.

    Sure the team need to be more agressive and more focused. Players need to take responsibility but it was not as bad as is being said on here. Its just that compounded upon other results it looks 100 times worse.

  190. You are right, hindsight is a beautiful thing but as a genuine Arsenal fan as you clearly are you must have had the foresight to realise that selling Fabregas and Nasri, replacing them with Arteta and Yosi was the end of project youth and a recognition of the failure of Wengers grand plan?

    My worry is the reason they wanted to leave?

    It used to be our manager had the reputation that players wanted to come and work under him, learn and develop. We used to be able to attract players at lesser wages because of this. I don’t buy the argument Fabregas was always going back to Barca so early on in his career.

    If he was captain of a title winning team at Arsenal repeatedly challenging for the title and saw the growth of cultured talent along with the addition of experienced players he would still be conducting our midfield. Yes he would go back to Spain one day but he left so young because he can see that what has been sold to the players and fans is not going to come to fruition. He has lost the belief and that is still running through the dressing room today.

    They should not have been held against their will but the point you make highlights the problem, there is no player that can turn around a 6 year drought. We are going to have to build a team capable to do this….but that’s what we have supposedly been doing for the last 6 years to end the drought.

    My only real point is the re-building of a team based on Wengers youth policy has been a failure and that is what he was a genius at in his day, that is what he has lost and that is why we need change.

  191. Eden,

    Well I suppose you are right and there is no point getting hysterical or going into depression at this stage we all just have to wait and see. To all those calling for the manager’s head why don’t you wait and see at the end of the season? I said elsewhere at the beginning of the season I think the club has fallen in terms of competitvness over the last few seasons I feel it is down to the executive level management (CEO and Board) but I also feel Arsene has to shoulder some responsibility, its best to wait to the end of the season before the tut, tutting and navel gazing, finger pointing.

    Fabregas paid his dues to the club IMO conducted himself honestly and appropriately no need for the asterisks.

  192. Somewhat Agnostic

    Eden, Miami.. etc..
    I don’t have time to get deeply involved now in finance as much has already been covered before no doubt. And I am quoting from my memory..

    I have been looking at Arsenal Finances closely recently. I have also been comparing them to Man Utd over recent seasons.. as I was wondering how big is the actual financial gap and did we close it at all? I don’t have those final figures yet as it is quite tedious to get each individual annual account and go through it.. (For example Transfer league mentioned earlier is quite a good pointer but not 100% accurate as some fees are not disclosed.. Miyaichi for example.. but you will get accurate total figures in the club accounts)

    But the point of the financial debate is you won’t hear too many Arsenal fans saying spend like Man City or Chelsea etc.. They are the truly untouchables at the moment.

    The point of the spend debate.. is spend what we can afford.. and there is no doubt whatsoever that Arsenal has more resources available to spend than what has been spent!

    The true amount however is difficult to guage..

    But each recent account has the same statement(s) from the board..

    “Money is available to the manager to strengthen….. Profit from transfers is available for the team… if not spent then it is carried over… in the short term, profit from property sales is available.. lack of spending is NOT because of financial constraint….etc”

    ALL of these are comments found in recent financial reports and with the names of the CEO and Finance officer after them.

    The point is I have not heard any arsenal fan… either pro,anti or neutral AW say we should spend like City, Chelsea etc.. everyone knows it is out of reach..

    Arsenal had 160m cash in the bank as at May 2011.

    Finally, (I must get back to work!) The Emirates stadium has been a resounding success. Only two clubs make more money now than Arsenal. Real and Man U.. That is a wonderful achievement. We make more money from matchday income than Barca and Bayern. (The commercial area is where we are particularly weak compared to the others… another debate!)

  193. We need a world class creative midfielder.Arteta was never the answer to Cesc or Nasri.
    There’s a hole in that midfield that needs to be filled.Ramsey doesn’t appear to be ready yet either.
    I think the way the pre-season and transfer window was handled was a bad let down to the club and us fans.It has impacted badly on our start to the season.
    Our play,excluding the last 20minutes was not as bad as being portrayed by many here.
    We bossed large spells of that game.And on a better day with more incisive attacking the story could have been different.A draw would have been a fair outcome by my reckoning.
    Let it also be known that that spurs team from yesterday are not likely to finish in the top 4 this season.
    I think we will be all right at the end of the day.I saw enough promise yesterday.We just need to see out this storm.Hold steady ye gunners!!!

  194. Paul N, have you seen the stats since the wembley defeat? Which was half a season ago. This a major, major slump we are in. This isnt just a run of bad games. To say it is borders on insanity

  195. Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City aside… how many players from other teams can you name that are a clear upgrade on what we have at the club right now?

  196. Betetr make that in the EPL

  197. bollocks… *better

  198. Gunman, the last twenty minutes of a football match is what separates the big boys from the rest.

  199. Ramsey has the ability. Many have said that his injury has affected him. The problem with that is that he always bosses the mid when he plays with Wales, as the Welsh captian and leader he is a straight beast. It seems that he is apprehensive in the Arsenal set up, maybe it is because he believes there are more senior players than himself in the team? I believe he needs to be more aggressive and play with more freedom. If he does that, he can more than do the job and help make up for the losses of Nasri and Cesc. That kid is good!

  200. MA,

    just from the Sp*d team alone: Bale, Modric, VdV, heck, even Adebayor is miles better than our second choice ‘striker’ in Chamakh…

    and if you were to compare the players paecking order wise, I would have a few of their squad players ahead of ours any day…

  201. Paul N, I think he thought he was playing for wales yesterday because he only passed to Bale.

  202. Paul N,

    his form has been absolutely woeful since the season started, yet we are giving him countless chances to click, which does not happen and it costs us points…

  203. MarcusF, the reasons for pretty clear… Nasri wanted more money, I cannot blame him because he is not nor was he ever an Arsenal loving player. Clichy wanted a new challenge having spent a good number of years at Arsenal and again was also offered my money. Fab wanted to go back to his beloved boyhood team, he had wanted it for a while and it was evident whilst he loves Arsenal he wanted to go home. These transfers are not a reason to look at Arsene and say pplayers don’t want to work with him anymore.

    The commercial contracts at Arsenal are significantly less than others in the EPL, I have not saying they are not but at the time they made the most sense to secure the financial future of the club during the construction of and then relocation to the new stadium. If you go back over the information released, it clearly states that Arsenal were placing themselves in a position to ensure that they could maintain there debt repayment even in the event they lost the CL. If we don’t make the CL would it be difficult to get back, maybe, then again maybe not. There are 3 clearly better teams in the EPL right now, we all know who they are not don’t pretend Tottenham are a mile better than Arsenal you do them way to much credit. They were better on the day and won, that is all it is. Dust it off and try again. If we don’t make the CL then we don’t, the sky will not be falling.

  204. Suga3, I would defo take Bale and maybe even VDV but not modric. Newcastke are in 4th, they therefore must have all the best players outside the top 3 right?

  205. Stanley, this is a different season with many different players, many of whom are being baptized by fire due to crazy injuries, even to 3rd and 4th choice players. Only stats from this entire season count, not last year.

    We lost against the Spurs but we lost against them last season when we were not in a funk, with most of our top players. So to behave as if this is some unbelievable thing that has happened doesnt make sense to me.

  206. Suga3, how long do you think bale will stay at Spurs when Manchester City offer him 250k per week? All the good players in this league right now are in the shop window for City to adjust there squad with more talent. Why is it there are rumblings for RvP to man City you think?

  207. Don’t get ahead of yourselves doomers. The Spuds didn’t outplay us. They got a lucky, flukey goal and scored after Van der Vaart trapped the ball with his arm. Your predictions of doom and giving Wenger until christmas scream of dellusion.

    Like Frank says, there was a fifteen minute spell after our goal where we didn’t let Spurs see the ball. In that spell we could’ve put them to bed, but we just didn’t capitalize. The reason, I think, for why we didn’t kill them off is that there is still a lack of understanding between the front three and the midfield. We get that sorted and we’ll start climbing up the table very quickly.

    Concentrate on the scoreline exclusively, it’s your choice, but the game wasn’t as dire as you wankers suggest. Spurs at home is never an easy game and I think we were really good for long spells which we didn’t take advantage of.

  208. oh, so we did not let Sp*ds see any of the ball, so what?

    what did we do with the ball? sweet fuck all, that’s what, every team is happy to allow us to pass sideways in fron of them ntil we inevitably fuck up trying to get through and we are hit on the break, this is Sunday league stuff…

  209. Suga3: “just from the Sp*d team alone: Bale, Modric, VdV, heck, even Adebayor is miles better than our second choice ‘striker’ in Chamakh…”

    You’d take Bale over whom? Theo? Did you watch the game yesterday? Bale did absolutely fuck all while Sagna and Theo were in the game. Modric isn’t fit to clean Wilshere’s boots and an in form Ramsey is just as good or better. Van der Vaart, no thanks. Did you know he plays without a meniscus in his right knee and is only good for sixty or sixty five minutes a game? The Adebayor suggestion was a right laugh. Adebayor can’t stay onside. He proved this while he was at Arsenal and spells at top teams haven’t been enough to ween him off this habit. Oh, and Song had him in his back pocket before he got substituded having done fuck all.

  210. Did you not read what I wrote numb nuts? I said we did sweet fuck all with the ball when we had it. What you’re ignoring, however, is how we pinned them in their half for those fifteen minutes.

  211. I agree that Ramsey is not playing good right now but I think it has a lot to do with him not playing his natural game and deferring to the pass too many times.

    The kid is good, we all know it.

  212. Bale did absolutely fuck all? what game were you watching, he was quite a threat, luckily Adebayor was not at the races…

    Bale would improve us not ‘over’ anybody, he is a natural wide player who we are at a premium in the current AFC setup…

    Adebayor is a better player than Chamakh in just about every department, so what if Chamakh knows the offside rule a bit better? perhaps he should become a fucking linesman, because he surely is shit as a player 😆

  213. we pinned them in their half, because they were happy with us passing the ball sideways, why risk the result when you know that it’s enough to keep RvP quiet?

  214. Haven’t seen it but apparently Alex Song has said, “We need to make the Arsenal fans happy”. He needs to spend a day or so around the interweb. No chance of that happening.

  215. Gainsbourg, whats sad is that in describing us, you’ve just described what Tottenham used to be. Titles are won by teams who play badly and win, not teams that play well and lose. But where your post really falls flat, is the fact that it is complete and utter bullshit. We were fucking toothless. Tottenham looked confortable the entire match, stop kidding yourself.

  216. “…I think we were really good for long spells which we didn’t take advantage of.”

    Thats how I saw it G69.

    Fact is apart from the handball goal we were far superior to the Spurs in the first half. So for all of their “better” players they needed an illegal play to even score.

    People keep saying that the Spurs didnt even play well. Well, do you know why? the reason is because Arsenal controlled the game, not becuase they were just poor.

  217. Just had a quick phone call from Chamakh. Reckons that Suga should be a journalist because he’s shit as a commenter… 😉

  218. Alex Ice Cream

    This is the poorest Arsenal team under Wenger and they will not make the top 4. We are worse than Sperz. This has been 3 or more years in the making and yet the manager (and some people on this blog) have naively believed that it will all miraculously come good. It hasn’t and it won’t. We are in grave danger of becoming also rans for the forseeable future.

    Make no mistake, this team is utter rubbish. Nothing going forward, shambolic at the back. Who will score if RvP doesn’t? Park? Chamakh? Its like in the early 90s when only Wrighty scored.

    The club needs a change and the manager is a good place to start along with the coacing staff, medical staff and half the squad. I have little faith in Satn and Ivan either. Other than that its all good.

  219. I was watching Spurs v Arsenal. Bale got no change out of Sagna or Theo and was largely anonymous, as one would expect, until Theo and Sagna came off. The only thing he did yesterday was get around Jenkinson twice.

    Adebayor is a better player than Chamakh? That’s news to me. Adebayor has gone on a scoring drought ever since he scored those thirty goals for us a few season’s back. A run that would’ve been impossible had he not received the service he did from our midfield. If you compare him to Chamakh, man for man, you’d see that Chamakh works harder than Adebayor and stays onside. Something which is trivial to you eventhough you like to call the way we played sunday league stuff. I mean, how more sunday league can you get than being so fucking lazy or unaware that you get caught offside at least five times a game?

  220. The reason why the Spurs were not good is not because they were happy to sit back but it was because we dominated the midfield. What gaves us issues were way too many errant passes in the final 3rd.

  221. Stan, you think whatever you want, but from what I saw the front three and the midfield doesn’t have an intuitive understanding just yet. When they do we’ll improve. I really don’t know why you went down memory lane the way you did. It was unnecessary as ours is a problem of gelling and not one of quality. But to each his own.

  222. YW,

    tell him that I will become one as soon as he hangs up his non-shooting boots and becomes a lino…

  223. Your wrong, Paul. Spurs were happy to give us possession because it is some masterful tactic that Redknapp thought up. He even told his players to look half assed and overplay their poor body language so that we’d become overconfident and mess up. Come on, Paul, what game were you watching yesterday? It was all plain as day. Bale, Modric and Ade were stupendous. They made our pack of imbeciles look like they were non-league footballers.

  224. Paul N @ 4:33.

    “Concentrate on the scoreline exclusively, it’s your choice, but the game wasn’t as dire as you wankers suggest. Spurs at home is never an easy game and I think we were really good for long spells which we didn’t take advantage of”

    Thats how I saw it G69.”

    Paul, When you look at the chances created I don’t believe that we really outperformed Spurs yesterday.

    I have been following this blog and commenting now for 3 years. Ole, Limpar, G69 our resident “experts” have been making the exact same statement about our “performances” the whole time I have been here. This is not related just to this current squad and is not related to our lack of gelling. The same thing happened even with our best fully gelled squads. When will we finally figure out how to turn performances into results? When has this happened long enough for us to finally admit that its a chronic institutional problem and probably not related to individual players.

  225. Gainsbourg, the midfielders werent releasing through balls which the strikers failed to read. They basiclally were just giving bad passes, textbook passes. We dont have the quality to keep the ball the way we used to. No amount of coaching can make a fabregas out of a Ramsey, a Nasri out of a walcott. Your posts are insane.

  226. legrave on tour

    Wow.

    Reading through the comments I expected to see the normal excuses roll out however I wasn’t prepared to see an acceptance of failure, an expectancy of mediocrity. Instead of asking questions which may lead to answers that people will not like are we honestly lowering the bar to such a level.

    If someone was to read the comments over the last six months and they had no prior knowledge of football they would assume that every team in the league was financially doped.

    We are losing and drawing with teams that have wage bills a third of ours.

    We are losing and drawing to teams that “on paper” are not as good as ours.

    We do not play Man City every week.

    Even with injuries we still have better players available than 80% of the teams in the league.

    What are we going to do, blame the media for us finishing 10th this year?

  227. What the fuck are you on about, Bill? Chronic institutional problems? You’re so dim and myopic it’s not even worth having a discussion with you.

  228. Gains,

    no, it’s not a ‘masterful’ tactic, it’s a tactic every single team employs when playing against us and in front (unless they are a top team, that is), they know that more likely than not we will do fuck all with the ball if they stay disciplined…

  229. Bill, why did you do that? I quoted a specific part of G69’s comment, no?

    Spurs had the better chances, I admit, but most of those came after we started to chase the game (that happens a lot in football),I just looked it up. When the game was 1-1 we were the better team and were the better team when they scored. The difference for the most part is that we didnt take our chances and or do enough with the ball.

    Look at the Norwich vs United game, even United supporters believe that Norwich were good for the win but they lose by 2. You have to take your chances.

    Our players are good enough to get it done in my opinion. They have to work in out and get better at playing together and taking chances.

  230. Stan, and why were the midfield giving away the ball like that? They didn’t strike the ball horribly, so what gives? Linking a lack of understanding to how well we hold the ball is insane. Especially when you consider that when we did get it right we made Spurs look second rate.

  231. Great insight, Suga3. Your grasp on the obvious is astounding.

  232. Gainsbourg,

    ‘Van der Vaart, no thanks. Did you know he plays without a meniscus in his right knee and is only good for sixty or sixty five minutes a game?’

    I think he’s scored four against us in three games. There top scorer last year. A decent number of asssits But your right, he’s fucking useless. a complete waste of 8 million pounds. So glad we didnt sign him. Arteta is much less injury prone and much more effective. Also cheaper.

  233. G69:

    How else do you explain the chronic mismatch between performances and results for the last 4 years? The last 20 games has been extreme but you have been talking about the quality of our performances and then coming up with reasons for the increasing frequency of a lack of results for as long as I have been following the blog. 3 years seems to be a long enough sample to draw some reasonable conclusions.

  234. Seen your email Yogi. I understand the problem.

  235. what is so obvious then? that we will do bugger all with the ball and continue passing it in fron of two banks of 4?

    yeah, of course it is, but until we have players not afraid to take the responsibility and have enough talent to pull that off, well…

  236. Paul, don’t waste your breath, broseph. According to our realists/drama queens, there’s nothing that could’ve been salvaged from this game. We were awful for ninety minutes and there isn’t a damn thing you or I can say that will convince them otherwise. You have to undersdtand that these people only use their reptilian brains and therfore only react to pleasure or pain. All the stuff in between, which other normal, warm blooded humans react to, is out of their depth of understanding.

  237. Stanley, what is with you and VDV?

  238. G69,

    get into that reptilian brain of yours that if we could have salvaged something out of this game, we would…

    after we conceded the second, we did not really look like equalising…

  239. Whatever reason it is worrying tha we have struggled since February. And last sprin we had quality players. Yet we were pal something that leads to thefact that even with equal replacements foe nasri and cesc we may still have lost as last season after feb proved….

  240. Spurs fan in peace,

    First, with regards the chanting, not sure we can take the high ground on that one, some of our fans have been in court over the abuse given to the worst traitor in footballing history, so on that point I reckon we should just let it slip, what goes around comes around as they say.

    The Clive Allen non handshake, this is so minor in my book that I am shocked that I am even commenting on it, Allen needs to get a thicker skin and Wenger needs to learn some manners, but seriously, is this really an issue worth talking about?

    Ok now the game.

    Naturally, you Gooners are going to whine about the goal but come on, how was the ref or linesman supposed to see that, secondly it is far from conclusive that it was hand ball and if I was a Gooner, thank god I am not, then I would be more worried about how Van the man was allowed to get such control from a high ball and plant it in the back of the net, cry all you want about the goal, but you have far bigger issues with that defence of yours.

    Also calling for Van the man to be sent off shows a new desperation from Arsenal fans and Wenger, there were days, not long ago, that a 10 man Arsenal would have beaten us in your sleep, wanting a team to go down to ten men so you can notch a win really is desperate, but regardless, there was no second offence, he stayed on the sidelines and never went in to the crowd and no handball was given.

    Now the game:

    For all your possession who had more actual chances, count how many times Brad had to make a save compared to the amount of times your Pole at to be at his best, without him you would have been beaten by far more.

    But the worst thing is this:

    We played poor by our standards and yet we still beat you, that alone should tell you how far in decline you are.

    Any of the other top teams would have put us to sleep on that performance of ours, we were poor and yet watching the game I still felt very confident that all the points would be ours, I just could not see your lot getting a second goal, there simply was no threat.

    Strange thing about all this is that I am not as overjoyed as I would have been just a season ago, that applies to most Spurs fans, we expected the win, we got the win, same attitude if we had played Wigan at home.

    I do not say all this to wind you up, not here to annoy anyone, just telling you how it really is from an opposing teams perspective and not just a Spurs perspective, most teams feel the same now, they no longer see Arsenal as a big threat and a s abetting man if you were playing Newcastle or Villa or Everton away I would bet on the home side, I would not have done that last season.

    Who is to blame? thats for you lot to work out between yourselves, but I think it is fairly obvious.

  241. Paul N, He’s a player ive always liked, and could always imagine playing for Arsenal. The fact the opportunity was there to sign him and we didnt makes me sick. If we’d shown interest, he’d of signed for us over the spuds, without a doubt. Does that not piss you off?

  242. G69, I am somewhat confused as to why the game cannot be assessed correctly. No one is suggesting that we didnt have problems, obviously we did, but for the most part we dominated the Spurs at their home. Oh well, such is life, we lost, so there is nothing that can be said otherwise as you say.

  243. Stan, how often was he out injured last season? With Van Persie and Diaby in the squad, do you think we can afford another injury prone player? Van der Vaart has all the talent in the world, but he’s a Spurs player because none of the bigger clubs wanted to take a punt on him due to his injury concerns.

    Bill, I can explain it a bunch of different ways, but I won’t because you’re as thick as a brick wall.

  244. and yet, he somehow did not miss any longer periods, did he?

    VdV might have been a gamble, what would you class renewing the contract of the waste of squad space Diaby as then?

  245. Stan, He scored by a handball to blow wow! surely that is not a special skill. He didnt trouble us apart from that really.

    I think we should stop saying what could’ve or would’ve taken place, had we done this or that. I dont think we needed any more mids either.

  246. Gainsbourg, Arteta and Benayoun have terrible injury records.

    You make it up as you go along.

  247. Cant wait for Diaby to come back. We could do with his more direct style of play.

  248. legrave on tour

    In peace | October 3, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    “Who is to blame? thats for you lot to work out between yourselves, but I think it is fairly obvious”.

    LOL.

    You have no idea the level of denial that a human can achieve.

    Have a good day people.

  249. more direct style of play?

    the same player who normally takes the sting out of any counterattacking move?

    *facepalm*

  250. Paul @ 5:00

    I understand what your saying. The problem is that we have not been taking our chances for several years now and not getting the results we believe that we deserve for our performances. Its not just this group of players. I can’t believe the red mancs players are just better finishers, especially compared with the talent on some of our previous teams. At some point you have to think that there is something wrong in our training, our tactics or some aspect of what we do as a club. If we still believe that our players are as talented as we think then there is no other logical conclusion. It’s the same thing with our defensive issues.

  251. In peace:

    “But the worst thing is this:

    We played poor by our standards and yet we still beat you, that alone should tell you how far in decline you are.

    Any of the other top teams would have put us to sleep on that performance of ours, we were poor and yet watching the game I still felt very confident that all the points would be ours, I just could not see your lot getting a second goal, there simply was no threat.”

    It happens. Sometimes dominant teams don’t put the ball in the net and end up losing. We’re not the first team who has gone through a spell like this. As I recall your lot is playing in the UEFA league because although good in many games, you ended up getting beat more often than not last season.

    ————————————————————

    “Strange thing about all this is that I am not as overjoyed as I would have been just a season ago, that applies to most Spurs fans, we expected the win, we got the win, same attitude if we had played Wigan at home.”

    Bullshit. You’re not overjoyed because you know you won by the skin of your teeth. You might have expected the win on paper, but when the game was actually played you looked second rate against a team missing important players in key positions. So stop fucking gloating, you sneaky, little cunt.

    ——————————————————-

    “I do not say all this to wind you up, not here to annoy anyone, just telling you how it really is from an opposing teams perspective and not just a Spurs perspective, most teams feel the same now, they no longer see Arsenal as a big threat and a s abetting man if you were playing Newcastle or Villa or Everton away I would bet on the home side, I would not have done that last season.”

    Sorry, what was that? I can’t make out what you’re saying because we don’t watch football on Thursday night.

    “Who is to blame? thats for you lot to work out between yourselves, but I think it is fairly obvious.”

    You worry about twitchy and we’ll worry about Wenger. Deal?

  252. A part of Yogi’s blog was instant replay.

    It is needed.

    When you look at Evertons red card against Pool, it was ridiculous, it wasnt even a yellow. How can that be allowed to happen with technology available. I dont know but in 2 matches we have been crapped on by bad or missed calls.

  253. Arteta has had one long term injury. Benayoun has had one long term injury. Van der Vaart has had at least five and is playing without a meniscus in his right knee. How the fuck are these players even comparable, Stan? And, no, I’m not having a slight at Van der Vaart. As a long time supporter of the Dutch NT I think he’s an incredible player. But would I want him at Arsenal knowing that his career can end at any minute? Not really.

  254. As we already have enough of those.

  255. Suga3, exactly. Why would we sign yet another player who would have a career ending injury if someone looks too hard at him?

    With regards to Diaby, I expect you to eat your words just as many have been made to eat their words when it comes to our players.

  256. Bill, I dont believe it has anything to do with training. Its cohesiveness and confidence. I say that because when our past teams were confident they scored many goals. Once we lost confidence we were too cautious and the goals dried up.

    I dont think our defending is bad overall, its just an easy to place to lay blame.

  257. After Bolton, the twats stayed away. After Olympiacos, the same. Today, however, they are out en masse. Why don’t you guys come over here when we win. I think we’d be able to have some very good exchanges if you dropped by during the good times as well.

  258. Have fun, Paul. Bill loves to be proven wrong, but only after you’ve wasted a day and a half talking him down from his idiotic positions.

  259. Paul N, spurz had at least five clear-cut chances, and I mean clear-cut. Thats not including the two goals. They werent even playing well. So on that basis, i think its safe to say our defending (as a team), is fucking atrocious.

  260. If I’m getting this right, the argument from Paul-N and G69 is that we weren’t totally crap, and that there were some positives to take from the game. They are not saying we deserved to win or anything like that. I can’t see why anyone would argue with that.

  261. Im out G69!

    have a blessed day bro!

  262. With regards to Diaby, I expect you to eat your words just as many have been made to eat their words when it comes to our players.

    if I was to list the things you expected and got it wrong, I would be at it until tomorrow, so please, I am happy to give the praise where it’s due, but there is none due to our lanky freeloader…

  263. At some point the excuses just have to stop. I know we have been on the receiving end of some very poor referee decisions and have had horrible luck with injuries, but it just doesn’t matter anymore.

    We either accept that these things happen and find a way to win or we make excuses and try to find ways to rationalize a shocking start to this season. I still do believe that we have the squad to do some good things this year, but something needs to change and it needs to happen quickly.

    I am a strong proponent of dropping RVP back into the “hole” and putting someone in front of him. We are lacking creativity from that area of the pitch in a big way. Maybe that could be a start.

  264. injuries are not our problem…… too many of our current starters are not playing to their potential: every attacker and midfielder (except Song & Coquelin).

    The loss of Cesc and Samir – excuses.

    I have not seen any progress in the effectiveness of our attack since last December. Why any focus on defensive players and goal keeper?

    If your players are not playing to their potential – its a manager issue.

    I keep hoping for some chemistry in attack……….but every match is a carbon copy of the last 10 months.

  265. Something else has been bugging me lately. If we carry on like this, and lets face it we will. It will come to a point where wenger will step down, as he will not want to hurt the club he obviously loves if he loses confidence in himself.

    My problem is that I dont trust our board to appoint a replacement. I have harrowing visions of Roberto Martinez.

  266. Was driving 500 miles away from home yesterday (heading westwards) but managed via a Blackberry app to set the cable box to record the game. Now if I can find an app to remove Suga’s comments…..

  267. Viceologist,

    “I am a strong proponent of dropping RVP back into the “hole” and putting someone in front of him. We are lacking creativity from that area of the pitch in a big way. Maybe that could be a start”.

    Not bad….
    But
    I’d play AA or TR7 primarily as creative CM with Rambo as backup.
    Adding AD2 when he returns.
    Leave RvP, MC29 & Park to concentrate on scoring

    Leave the wings to Theo, Gerv, Ryo,Yossi, Ox, & Park.
    Arteta, Song, LeCoq & Frimp as DM-CMs where all but Arteta as aux defenders.

    Things are a lot clearer than a month ago.
    We know what Frimp, Jenks, LeCoq, Ox, Arteta, Mert & Gerv bring to the table.
    All we need now is to see Ryo & Park in action.
    As well a fit-again AD2, TV5, Squilly and eventually JW19

    Btw, I thought Sagna could have left that ball to Assou-Ekotto.
    Effort appreciated but now 3 months out.
    LeCoq, Jenks & Frimp will have to play RB
    Maybe even Santos or Gibbs

    We might not make 4th
    but at least we’ll have one heck of a time
    fighting to make this season a success!

    I remain POSITIVE .

  268. “Things are a lot clearer than a month ago”

    You are not wrong there.

  269. Jabba'sDelights

    Gains

    did you even watch the game yesterday. Spurs were well deserved of there win. I’m inclined to think that as Scezesny was having an absolute stormer before his mistake. i cant remember Fredel making one save of note. Spurs were happy to sit back against us as for the last 3 years teams have got allot of change out of hitting us on the counter.

    We have been useless at defending for 3 years but our possession game papered over the cracks, the wise people on here said that years ago but muppets like you bought into wenger chat about conceding the least goals from open play.

    Now that we cant keep the ball our defence has been shown for what it is …..poorly organized tripe!!

    The players are taking time to gel……hmmm who fucking fault is that. Wise people on here said it was better to sign players at the begnining of the summer……….name me 1 of our signings who couldnt have been bought earlier??????

    Wenger is fast running out of time before the atmosphere at the ground youve never visited becomes utterly horrible for him. there are thousands of empty seats and its getting worse. the red members arent picking up the slack as they to now see what seasons ticket holders see and that highly overpriced uncommitted garbage.

    The players look poorly coached and have done for 7 months. its utterly incredible that the managers job isnt in question.

  270. @ Miami Arsenal | October 3, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    @ jjgsol | October 3, 2011 at 1:59 pm
    @ Eden | October 3, 2011 at 3:07 pm
    V good posts.

    @ G69
    Yay!

    ****
    “Arsenal dominated.”
    from the doomers’ poster boy Stewart Robson.
    He thinks that we dominated midfield until Sandro was brought on, that we dominated territory and possession, but we didn’t create enough because Spurs defended their penalty box well, and that the goals (all of them) were down to poor defending. He also says we are too easy to open up – need to get sharper in the transitions from attack to defence.
    The positives he takes are Coquelin’s performance (and that of a couple of others) and the fact that we dominated.

    David Pleat saw it like this:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/oct/02/arsene-wenger-arsenal-tottenham
    Basically, he thought it was an encouraging display.

    So neither opinion is a million miles from that of the supposedly delusional Gains69 et al.

    **
    @ YW
    Thanks for the link to the Jens interview. Very interesting and also reassuring. Such a smart guy, that Mad Jens.

  271. Stanley M – “If we carry on like this, and lets face it we will.”

    Thats the spirit!

  272. David Pleat?

    Holy Shit, what has happened to our club and our fans?

  273. I agree Stan, how can a supporter of a club throw his hands in air, wave the white flag and predict its demise and the subsequent firing or stepping of one of the best managers ever?

  274. Jabba'sDelights

    Paul N

    What makes you think of a turn around.

    Lets revisit what some complete cunts said this summer.

    Our defence has gotten worse each year for the last 3 years

    our points totals have gotten worse each of the last 3 years

    We havent done enough in the summers to make up the gap or maintain the gap from the teams below us despite, continuity and huge sums of money to spend.

    our players have shown a complete inability to get over disappointments or slumps in the last 4 years.

    our manager openly encourages a blame attitude in the squad where everyman and his dog is at fault for our troubles baring the squad and manager themselves.

    what makes you think things will get better. The players havent played for or listened to the manager in months. they are highly paid on large contracts many remind me of benefits cheats in normal society.

    the manager who has more power than any other is to blame for this. our defence has never looked as bad.

    Why he hasnt brought someone in to coach them i dont know. He has swapped from zonal to man marking already this year he hasnt got a fucking clue what he is doing. where are players need decisive leadership they are getting a once great leader who has lost everything bar his own arrogance.

  275. stepping down even

  276. Paul N,

    we are facing one of the two situations here:

    – Wenger is given the budget, but refuses to use it for some reason, thinking that this team is good enough to challenge for honours, which could not be further from the truth. This would mean that he has lost the ability to perform a realistic assessment.

    – Wenger is not given the money, but he is happy to take the flak for the board, being handsomely renumerated for doing so.

    best manager? do me a favour…

  277. @ Manchester United is Jabba’s Delight, Why dont you go and offer services? stop moaning and send your cv to the club. After all, you know it all.

    Back to my mushrooms

  278. mushroom syndrome? kept in the dark and fed shit? sounds about right…

  279. aw i see this will be a happy place for the next two weeks. Two weeks of getting lectured by suga about how this club can become successful again. two weeks of arguing about what is wrong.. two weeks of player bashing so that we can all tell eachother how crap everyone and evertyhing is..
    yay,A Cultured letfoot is the place to be!
    Let the trashing begin….

  280. you should send your CV in also.

  281. keep the compliments coming

  282. http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/03102011/2/arsenal-keeper-szczesny-pulls-poland-squad.html

    now pray and hope this is just aimed at keeping him out of some poxy friendlies, as Fabianski is not a patch on Szczesny…

  283. Paul N,

    I am not going to send in any CVs, because it’s not my line of work, however, on the amateur level, my team would absolutely obliterate yours, simply because I would not be interested in points for artistic impression…

  284. We are facing two situations here Poodle.

    Sugafree with leave or we well be blessed by his superior football knowlegde. If and when Arsene leaves, he is the only sensible replacement. Surely?

  285. how very witty…

  286. No, your team would obliterate Arsene’s. I am a small fry, why would you even bother with me? I think I would take you on the field though, you just dont look like you can play.

    Send in your CV and get it done. I admit that you know more about football than I do, so put it to good use.

  287. No that want Wit, I really mean it.

  288. now I don’t look like I can play?

    and what could possibly give you that idea, my punctuation?

  289. no, my friend, I never said I would manage the team better than anyone, but I don’t need to be a chef to be able to tell you that a meal tastes like poo, do I?

  290. Suga3
    The is another option
    Wenger is doing the best he can with the resources made available to him and is not a moaning winging bastard like some people .and therefore just gets on with his job.
    Perhaps the austerity of recent years has finally bitten.
    Maybe we will have to wait until Jack and Rambo have matured before we challenge again.
    Or,we might just gel and be back on track in no time.
    I just don’t see any benefit in moaning and crying like spoiled kids.
    We have some great players and a great manager We just need them to form a great team.

  291. I have never tasted poo, so I couldnt tell you.

  292. george,

    I will not be knocking down the points you have just made, as you know, I am of different opinion and that opinion is that some things come to an end and this is where AW should walk before he is hounded out…

    for example, I simply refuse to believe that we could not find a better backup RB than Jenkinson, who will certainly be a great fun to watch in the coming few months and we are sitting on a pile of cash…

  293. To be fair Redknapp criticized Spurs fans and Arsenal fans for chanting. I think we need to stop seeing things in black and white and take the gooner goggles off. Pleased to see both clubs have come out and condemned the chanting with a joint statement.

  294. Paul N,

    can you hear the sound of the straws snapping?

  295. Jabba'sDelights

    Paul N

    i hope you give your child better life lessons than how you come across on here. Last thing we need is another kid strolling around blaming everyone else for everything never having responsibility for there own actions.

    Fact is some of us called it others were to busy calling everyone who was right a cunt. You, Frank, Zim paul, Gains, dups should do the good thing and march yourself out back and pull the trigger on one another or stick around but be forced into cutting off you knobs so you cant bring anything else like you into this earth

    You call it wrong constantly you have been caught out so many times over the last year its getting boring. Reading Gains description of the game infuriates me as he quite clearly has no idea about football, then he has the audacity to be rude to one of the only americans on here i feel actually understands the game and the horror that true gooners feel right now.

    The manager is presided over an awful 3 years which were meant to be the years that we got stronger. in that time he has taken out close to 20m out of the club. our squad is clearly the weakest it been in 15 years and we have left money at the table once again. The defence is the worst its been in decades and the teams backbone is made of powder as it has done for 3 years. What makes it worse is that there is talent in the squad but the manager cant get anything out of it. If they were talentless like we were mid 80s its understanderable but we have talent they just dont play hard for wenger

  296. “they are highly paid on large contracts many remind me of benefits cheats in normal society.”

    Brave analogy Jabba. Equating highly paid professional sports men with “benefit cheats”. I think we can all see the obvious link your making. Actually it makes no fucking sense whatsoever, but that didn’t stop you making it, so I salute you nonetheless.

    The thing to do with Sir Alan Suga is to ignore him (it’s always a him), and he’ll go away and resume his all demanding day job(s) as Middle East peace envoy, sorting out Europe’s debt crisis, not to mention offering his invaluable knowledge and advice to the greatest football managers in the world, and last, but by no means least, his weekend work as international superstar DJ and all round love god. It’s tough work, but someone has to do it, and Alan is that man. Go Alan. No please…just go…

    Thing is if Arsenal had won yesterday, or even scraped a deserved draw, you just know the likes of Suga would not be posting on this site today. That tells you all you need to know.

  297. Eden,

    the argument about me not posting after getting a result (and a draw y’day would be seen as one) is old hat and not true at that…

    and how funny is that you are not able to form ONE cohesive counter argument?

  298. Blame? why do you have to go so deep and talk about Children? who is placing blame elsewhere? Dont worry about my parenting sir.

    No need to respond but both the players and the manager must take responsibility but not just the manager.

  299. Was anyone else fucked off that the Ox wasnt even on the bench? Our one shining light over the past few months, brimming with confidence, was not even worth a place on bench?.

  300. Well said today, Eden, Frank and Paul-N.

  301. Was anyone else fucked off that the Ox wasnt even on the bench?

    No.

  302. You are right Eden, I just felt like playing around a little but it was an unwise decision to make.

    After its all said it done Arsene Wenger is the best manager in the world and he will get us to where we need to be before his tenure is over.

  303. OneOfUs What have I done wrong?

  304. Szczesney has come out and apologised for the second goal. The one player who saved us from humiliation is apologising.

  305. Paul N,

    and where would that be?

  306. ah get over yourself stanly M. Chesney is a great keeper but failed miserably on that goal just as some of the forward players failed misrabley on their chances. If they both had succeeded we would have atlest had a draw possibley a win. fact.
    NOBODY not ecen chesney are excluded from our misery, everyone has to take blame. even the best players. just like nasri who scored 15 goals last year has to take blame for our miserable end of year. Same with Cesc and RvP. Nobody took responsibility. this is a teamsport not a one man sport. Everyone, Cesc, nasri, chsney Gibbs Arteta, Song everyone has to take responsibility! Everyone!!!

  307. George @ 7:51:

    “Perhaps the austerity of recent years has finally bitten.”

    In all the garbage that has been slung around today thats probably the most accurate thing anyone has said.

  308. After its all said it done Arsene Wenger is the best manager in the world and he will get us to where we need to be before his tenure is over.

    That is how I feel.Paul.
    And nobody ,not even me,is saying everything is rosy in the Arsenal garden.
    But dear me,the world of football has changed in the past few years and we are the casualties.So are every other club bar City Chelsea and United(and even their card is marked).Why ignore what is plain to anyone with even half a brain.

  309. George, after ox’s performance against the greeks, its was all set up for him to play without fear today. It could of been a great football story for us, but instead we bought on benayoun, our marquee signing, who is fucking shit.

  310. Jabba'sDelights

    Eden

    how did we deserve a draw yesterday? We created 1-2 chances they created 5-6, they scored 2 we scored 1. did you see how that epic team Blackburn got on at home on saturday what about the mighty bolton.

    Paul N

    You constantly come up with excuses for averageness or even worse, like i said if that finds its way into you parenting and i see no reason why it shouldnt consider the vigour you defend it on here i dread to think of the results.

    the players can be blamed for poor performances but at the end of the day its the manger who has been in charge for two of the worst summers in memory. Its the manger who claims he only signs intelligent players and yet its these same players who appear incapable of taking onboard his coaching. Its the managers job to deal with these things and that is why he is by far the highest paid person in Arsenal’s history. He blames everyone bar himself and his players.

  311. ofc Cesc and Nasri does not have to take any responsibility for this year but for end of last campaign, but im sure you all understood that…

  312. but jabba you really think that swapping manager today will bring us a win in the next match? The players does not want a change, they want arsene….

  313. George, do you live in amsterdam?

    Its ridiculous comments like that which have made us so called ‘doomers’. No sane person can listen to that shit without giving a response.

  314. Or is it up to the fans and nobody els to determin who is the best for the job? the players should not have a say at all….

  315. Stanley M well go on respond and tell me what I said that you think is untrue.

  316. george,

    to be honest, I can’t see how the fact that the football has changed (which I agree with) has any bearing on our ability to beat the teams like Blackburn or even Sp*ds?

  317. Poodle, of course they want fucking arsene, they dont want the gravy train hi-jacked. They know as soon as another manager comes in they’ll have to start house hunting in Newcastle.

  318. If anyone can give me the name of one of our better players who is not more likely to leave if Arsene does ,I will plait piss.

  319. Guys, Jabba’s right.
    He’s been proved right by ‘Arry’s Spurs.
    He was right about or defence, offence, management & coaching crew.
    His prophetic words of Summer have come to pass.
    A full recognition is due Jabba’s Delight.
    I concede to you J’sD.
    ……………eh???
    …..what next oh Jabba
    what way forward?

  320. george,

    I reckon if we were to get a replacement manager with a clear plan that makes sense and is not afraid to make some belated changes, I think you might be surprised to see how many players would prefer that option…

  321. George, is that how little you think of Arsenal Football Club?

  322. Suga3 ,I agree but I think it is temporary and will be put right .
    I have to admit it is dragging on a bit though 😦
    Still,I don’t care .I love the players we have and the manager.And I refuse to be dragged down by anyone.And I mean anyone.

  323. Was that a job application from the italian?

  324. George, There is more to our team and the issue’s we are having now but I see what we can become. I admit it is crappy right now but I am not going to give up. I believe we will turn it around, if that doesnt happen, I am an Arsenal supporter all the same. For those of us who dont have all the answers like some, we will simply keep supporting and believing. I dont know what else we can bring to the table that can help us through this tough time.

  325. Suga3 You are right ,I would be surprised.Very surprised and hugely disappointed.

  326. F’give me O Jabba’sD,

    1st move: Sack AW?
    ok..new manager?
    c’mon man we haven’t got all day….??

    whats that?…we have half of 2 weeks to get a new man?
    Ok
    We await your choice
    His procurement
    & your exit strategy for AW.

    Our useless expired manager who “blames everyone bar himself and his players”and is by far the highest paid person in Arsenal’s history.

    we await your wisdom J’sD.

  327. I don’t know if my recognition of the fact that we currently have problems has given some people the incorrect impression that I am wavering from my absolute faith in the Manager.That is 100% faith,in case there is any doubt.
    Is that clear ?

  328. Jabba'sDelights

    Poodle

    The players want wenger and yet dont play for him?????????

    The players want a manager who makes there life incredibly easy. the players want a manger who pays them according to potential and not on ability????

    Has it it not dawned on you that maybe the players need a fucking good kick up the arse and told to stop talking shit and actually start working and fighting.

    Thats not what im seeing im not seeing players bleeding to draw us out of this relegation fight.

    The coaching staff needs change top to bottom. Defensively we are tripe and have been for years and yet we here our manger say ”i’ve worked 32 years in football”, so fucking what you arrogant bastard, you quite clearly dont know how to get the best out of these defenders or the ones before. You havent won half the trophies of fergie and yet he has a defence coach.

    Aman

    We should get a new manager, or at least demand that the current one alters his methods.

    Results arent good enough and allot pf fans without half a days work in football saw this coming unfortuantely whether you like it or not.

    Sending that team up to old trafford and not telling them to alter there tactics i find quite frankly disgraceful what the fuck was the arrogant man doing.

    The annoying part of getting shit from people liek you is that you dont no what it like to spend thousnds on these guys wages and then see criminal decison making or lack of effort. You have zero idea i bet youve never even seen a spurs fan in person gloating at the utter decay of your club.

    I bet youve never listened to a tv pundit who puts forward a plausible argument as to how wenger is past it

  329. No true arsenal fan enjoys laying into wenger. He has done some amazing things with our club. But his time has come to an end. Its true we must wait till the end of the season, and we must also find a transfer kitty to entice a new manager and give him the tools to take us forward.

    he sad fact is that wenger has been making some shocking decisions for a long time now, and like everyone else in life who makes mistakes he must be held accountable. After all, He’s paid an extremely high salary to do a job for fucks sake.

  330. J’sD,

    “We should get a new manager, or at least demand that the current one alters his methods.
    Results arent good enough and a lot of fans without half a day’s work in football saw this coming unfortuantely whether you like it or not.
    Sending that team up to old trafford and not telling them to alter there tactics i find quite frankly disgraceful what the fuck was the arrogant man doing.
    The annoying part of getting shit from people like you is that you don’t know what it like to spend thousands on these guys’ wages and then see criminal decison-making or lack of effort. You have zero idea i bet youve never even seen a spurs fan in person gloating at the utter decay of your club.
    I bet you’ve never listened to a tv pundit who puts forward a plausible argument as to how wenger is past it”

    You are right J’sD.
    Forgive me.

    So its a new manager
    OR
    demand that AW alters things OR ELSE?

    Fair enough.
    Lets hope they listen

  331. I bet youve never listened to a tv pundit who puts forward a plausible argument as to how wenger is past it

    Which pundit has given a plausible argument Jabba.?
    I am genuinely asking,I am not looking to argue.

  332. Gains,

    Thanks for keeping the the swollen banks of the river Turd at bay.

  333. Stanley M are you an ostrich?
    Did you not read what Stan said?
    Arsene is here until he decides to go ,End of.Get used to it.
    Stan will never be swayed by you or your winging ilk.

  334. You’re right George. The real problem is Stan.

  335. george,

    perhaps someone should tell him that a team can get relegated and that Theo taking the ball past the line and landing on his arse does not count as a touchdown?

  336. Jabba'sDelights

    Aman

    here is some wisdom.

    sign players earlier in the window as shock horror it takes time for players to gel.

    Sell players who quite obviously want to leave. have a plan B in place for when they do leave.

    dont give players huge wages beofre they have earnt them as it makes them impossibel to shift.

    realise that doing the same thing to s defence that has been awful for years isnt likely to get you improvements.

    Understand that nearly all successful sports sides find numerous ways to win matches and negate opposition strengths.

    None of this is rocket science and none of it takes a genius to work out. All of this has been said by wise people on here for years and our arrogant manager did nothing. he waited and waited and did nothing as he was made to look like an incompetent version of hodgson at Liverpool.

    4 wins in 18 games at what point do you say he isnt getting a response out of the players in the same way benitez or hodgson ddint at liverpool.

  337. Somewhat Agnostic

    If AW had been saying for the last 2-3 years that he’s been building a side that he thinks is capable of winning something in 2-3 years and he is hampered by financial constraints, and to give him time, then I think we would be at a more reasonable level of expectation now comensurate with our true financial position… and Arsene would not be getting so much flak now.

    However, he has been saying exactly the opposite to be fair which is now the rod that is beating him. He has said consistently for the last three years that his team is good enough to win the title and that he does not need to buy to do that.

    We know what has happened. I can dump link after link on here to back that up but I think most of you know that is true..

    I’ve been closely interested in the finances of the club and our true position is 4th in the PL. Now above that we over-achieve and below that we under-achieve in my opinion.

    But Arsene has said he has had sides capable of winning the title for three years now. Coming close would have probably got him out of jail with some but the spectacular collapse of the last 6 months has damaged his credibility more than anything that has happened in the previous two season challenges.

    it’s not unreasonable for fans to ask questions. And asking questions and having a contrary opinion does not make anybody less of a fan. I understand people will believe in him completely but I also understand that there are those who do not. Each side does not lose their love of the club. And don’t forget there is a 3rd category of fan… I will call them for want of a better description the AW-Neutral fan. Those who don’t mind if he stays or goes; as long as the club does well.

  338. Does not really mater what any of you think though. AW will sit until the summer and if he does not manage top 4 he will most likly resign and start managing some other top team, if he does manage top 4 he will stay on and build.
    That is what will happen. regardless of what stanly m and jabba thinks and feels and means about anything.

    If he leaves there will be a time of tranistion. We will not win the Pl or anything close to that the year after AW resigns. The best example is Liverpool. they splashed clsoe to 100m in 2012 they still far far far far away from winning any league.

  339. Jabba ,Have you ever heard the saying “you are pissing into the wind”?

    Arsene is totally secure in his job ,Totally.

    And rightly so .

  340. Sad news about TR7 & his wife losing their unborn baby.

    Kind of puts football in perspective.

  341. @dups is that why he was not playing on Sunday?

  342. George,

    There is just whining, no plausible arguments.

    The best Le Grove has managed on how to do it was to call for a seat on the board for Mr Blobby Russian Mafia gangster calling him a ‘visionary entrepreneur’.

    I have never heard anyone talk about who would replace Wenger – he is just called a liar and told to go. Unfortunately Pep, Sir Alex and Jose are all currently happy where they are, but I am sure by Le Grove’s logic Steve McClaren is a good bet and he is English

    ……..except for the Mc.

  343. We will not win the PL unless FFP works .and that now seems unlikely.
    City have totally corrupted the game .On an unprecedented scale.And it will get worse before it gets better ,if it ever does.
    And in case you missed it Arsene predicted as much and it is most certainly not his fault.

  344. “form is temporary but class is permanent”.

  345. Wengers time is up, Stan should know.

  346. Poodle

    I am not sure if that was the reason because the news was released by his NT I believe.

  347. heh btw, my liverpool mate spoke very highly about Benayon and reckond he would be better than Arsharvin in the free roaming midfield playmaker role.
    Is he really that good? as i do not know that much about him at all….

  348. I keep asking people questions regarding their posts and guess what?
    Fuck all responses.
    If you are going to post shit at least try to justify it when quizzed.
    I know people think I chat shit but at least I can explain my stance.And will when asked.
    Debate?FFS ,Just fuck off.

  349. Sorry to hear that about Rosicky! I cannot imagine the pain he and his wife must be going through.

  350. Poodle ,I told you on signing day he was good.But he is not as good as Arshavin.

  351. Jabba'sDelights

    George

    i havent seen anyone put forward a plausible argument as to why the manager shouldnt be on a deadline of 5 games to save his job.

    Why should he be rewarded so handsomely for failing in his job. pundits and journalists who you hate have called our decline perfectly over a 3-4 year period.

    Its not good enough to constantly talk about money woes and inequality. Our manager acts like a General manager in american sports and its his mismanagement that has allowed our squad and the wages to be so lopsided. We must arrest the decline before it becomes a disaster.

    The manager needs to start demonstrating that he can turn this round and that mean now. Not next summer, he has this summer to sort out last season and he failed miserably again. I dont think there is a pundit out there who isnt questioning whether wenger should think about stepping down if this continues for the next few games. Even his most loyal pundits his former players heavily nailed by people like you on here think he has utterly lost the plot with regards to the defence.

    Time for chat is over the players must start responding to the manager or the manager has got to leave. The vast majority of the paying fanbase are done with his rhetoric

  352. george,

    there is nothing right about the manager being unsackable and his images being draped up all over the place whilst he is still in the job…

    him accepting the latter smacks of vanity and sense of self-importance above everything else and that’s never good, is it?

    cult of an individual is nothing good, just ask North Koreans…

  353. @jabbba the small minority of the paying fanbase are done with him.
    The vast majority want him to stay put. ask anyone Jabba, I know cos i know more fans than you and have a bigger network than you. fact.

  354. i mean who the fuck would want to shake clive Allens hand. wenger hasn’t done alot right lately but that was a classic.

  355. Jabba I simply asked you which pundit had given a plausible argument as to why Arsene is past it.
    Now can you give me a name or not?
    If you cant then why make the statement?
    I was genuinely interested but it now looks like you were just making things up.
    I don’t understand why you feel you have to do something like that.You have plenty to justify your stance without making things up.

  356. Why do you always need 4 paragraphs or more to make a point. What are you trying to prove?

  357. Duke, whats up bro?

  358. Duke,would you shake my hand?

  359. alright paul and im still in a calm state!

  360. Paul,are you asking me that?

  361. Jabba'sDelights

    SA Gooner

    Um last time i checked mr Guidiola was anything but happy in his job. have you seen the argument developing between him and rosell over laporte. Have you listened to what he has said in recent years regarding keeping players motivated and needing new projects or have you got your head up your yarpie arse??

    You and George act like we have a team and squad that are playing for the manager and have a coherent game plan. i will take any manager who can put a plan in place and get the players to buy into it and we dont have that currently…..FACT.

    George

    If this form continues and the manager fails to inspire the players he will be sacked. KSE came out and said what he had to but make no mistake if the results continue he will have no choice but to rid himself of the once great man. If the last 6 months form continues we will be relegated. I’ve seen nothing this year which suggests that we will get better and if we lose 2-3 of our next 5 in the prem the fans and position in the table will make it nearly impossible for it to continue. You dont live down here you dont but tickets to the games……………you have no influence over his future. Glazidis made it very clear who is in charge of his future and its those of us that spend our hard earned on the club

  362. Wengers quote “i shook redknapps hand and his assistants hand, i mean how many hands do i have to shake”. ha ha ha . still shows glimpses of his ol self doesn’t he. we need more of it please.

  363. Not at all George!

  364. Jabba,I am sick of you telling me my opinion does not matter because I don’t live in London.
    His job is secure no matter what you might want.
    Have you got the name of a pundit or not ?

  365. what will you do if he gets sacked and things dont get better Jabba?

  366. Jabba'sDelights

    George

    Marcotti, Wilson, Northcott the 3 best i know. Obvioulsy there are loads of others but you would just sniff in arrogance at them. 3 best pundits i know bar balegue and all have put forward decent cases as to why the manager would have to leave if this continues.

    4 wins in 18 im afraid mate. He hasnt shwon brilliance in years. We cant afford to pay someone to massively under perform in his job like he is. He must start getting results out of the players and i would have thought that would be obvious to you.

    If it gets to xmas and we are on less that 25 points he must be sacked. That will be 4 years of decline and almost certainly result in no cl which armagedon for us

  367. Poodle, brilliant philosophy. Never try in case you fail. Very rock and roll.

  368. Jabba I have no problem with you or anyone else saying he should go if this continues.But you said they had given a plausible argument why he was “past it” Now that was not true was it?

  369. Jabba,@October 3, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Here is your plausible argument, do with it what you like.

    1) We qualified for champions league football last season. There was therefore no urgency to get rid of Wenger by that standard at the end of the season.

    2) All managers who do better either have billions to spend or are otherwise happily employed.

    3) Our godlike player departed and we have had to rebuild from there. Whilst this will take some time we are still in all competitions including the Champions League.

    4) Whilst nobody likes to be trashed by ManUre or cheated by the Spuds the exceptional circumstances of the first match show how far we have strengthened the squad by time of the 2nd.

    5) We had just won 3 matches in a row before this one.

    If it was possible to ascertain what people like you actually want it might be possible to answer more fully, personally I struggle. You want to impose 5 matches for Wenger to win a match? Change the whole team? Not lose a competition? Not lose a match? Switch to 4:4:2? Start playing some football you like to see? Sink some of the players you like into the Thames? None of your bitching makes sense.

    For me it is satisfactory enough to know that you will have to continue watching this miserable excuse for a team turn out this far from average display for years to come.

  370. @stanly M but the problem is your change wont make us a better team neither.

  371. If it gets to xmas and we are on less that 25 points he must be sacked. That will be 4 years of decline and almost certainly result in no cl which armagedon for us

    If you said “should “instead of “must” you would make a better point.
    There is no “must” about it.

  372. most likley it will make us worse…

  373. Jabba'sDelights

    Poodle

    If the form continues and we sack him and it stays the same at least we will have tried and we will be in a better position as of next summer. Its 4 years of decline under this manager, they are his players and they have now found his management technique sterile.

    George

    Unfortnately for you your opinion doesnt matter as much as people who attend. I wish it werent the case but its the people who spend the money on the cub who can exercise power over the club. This should be obvious to you. Our home fans our the clubs life blood without them we are dead, and its these home fans who by not attending will point the way to the board. the manager must start convincing the home crowd that he is still competent otherwise he will be gone. 5 atrocious prem games from now and i can tell you this that the little area of london where i live which is called highbury and popullated by allot of that home crowd will be asking for him to move upstairs. If your unhappy with that fact of life life spelt out to us by glazidis at the AST meeing in June i would suggest you leave lancashire or cumbria and get yourself down here and buy up one of the many thousand of seasons tickets that havent been renewed

  374. I would still love to see something like this:

    ——————–Chezzer—————–
    Jenks——–Per———-Kos——-Gibbs
    ———–Song————-Coquelin————–
    ———————RVP—————————-
    Walcott/Ox—-Walcott/Chamakh—-Arsh/Gervinho

    It seems worth a shot at least. What we have going on now has not been too impressive of late.

  375. well i think Wenger is showing the symptons of a mananger who has losing his qualities. he is making alot of mistakes but how many are truly all his fault remains to be seen, but it isn’t looking good for him at the moment.

  376. when last summer one of the ‘doomers’ predicted 14 points from the first 10 games , I thought the fella was off his rocker…

    now that we have got 7 points out of 21, it does not look that loony anymore, does it?

  377. ‘5) We had just won 3 matches in a row before this one.’

    dont take the piss

  378. I agree with SA Gooner.
    I like SA Gooner

  379. symptoms

  380. 3 matches. are you seriously counting the shrewsbury game???

  381. Didnt we win 3 matches in a row? how is that taking the piss? that is a fact.

    We did win 3 matches in a row and were the only PL team to win their CL match and beat a damn good team to get into the runnings. We are doing quite well in the CL so.

  382. Jabba,It would be years before I got a season ticket.Even now.
    Or are you saying that you can now just buy one?
    I live in Blackburn ,by the way.
    And I am not trying to get into an argument either.

  383. And why shouldnt we count the shrewsberry game? They beat some good teams to get to that point. It was a good win.

  384. But Jabba you know that George is right. Unless FFP becomes a reality we will never winn the PL again. Regardless of what manager we have we will never be able to splash 100m or more for three seasons in a row.
    Not with our self sustained model.
    And no one would buy a team if it was not to earn money from it. Its buisness after all… Why els would you buy a team….

  385. Shrewsbury was a match . Fact.

  386. Paul N,

    that game would be unwatchable if I was sober, but at least I had a few laughs in the stands…

  387. for me cc games don’t count.

  388. Poodle,

    United don’t have the resources Chelsea or City do, but once again, they will be up there this year, hell, they have even managed to win the league with about the most average team I have seen for years…

  389. @duke with the current form of the team, CC games and CC trophies does count. Dont fool yourself, we are not a PL contender atm.. we are an FA and CC contender. A CC cup would be brilliant for us tbh…

  390. whats with all this ending the comments with…fact …lark.

  391. United have alot more resources than arsenal does, they just shopped for 70M this summer. Rooney was 30m, Rio was 30m, nani was 18m Andeson was 20m. Their entire team is full of 15m pluss players.

  392. oh yeah i forgot that was the ol Arsenal when we could play our kids in the cc cup, now we play the kids in the prem.

  393. Jabba’sDelights | October 3, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    You are obviously a man who takes his newspapers very seriously. Personally, I’ll believe that story when I see it all unravel in front of me. LOL

    But you still miss the point. If he is there let him come, or are you proposing that he is coming? The point is that there are few that are better than Wenger and even fewer proven to be so.

  394. and who said we could not buy a few of these?

  395. Jabba'sDelights

    sa gooer

    ”1) We qualified for champions league football last season. There was therefore no urgency to get rid of Wenger by that standard at the end of the season.”

    Thats where the lack of ambition comes again. i dont think he should have been sacked this summer i do think he should have been told in no uncertain terms that last years and the years before collapse isnt exceptable and that he MUST start adressing some of our weakneses that have been apparent for years. He failed to do this!!!

    ”2) All managers who do better either have billions to spend or are otherwise happily employed.”

    thats the stupid thing, we had as much money as Utd to spend this summer if not more. We also have the benefit of continuity and supposedly a youth system where every youngster has been taught the arsenal way and is ready to integrate into the team. Our wages our 50m more than Spurs every year?

    ”3) Our godlike player departed and we have had to rebuild from there. Whilst this will take some time we are still in all competitions including the Champions League.”

    A manager with his finger on the pulse would have known he was leaving…..i thought they had a great relationship? He would have planned for this. He wouldnt have continued to stubbornly bang his head against a brick wall. We are still in comps? We are out of the league and have zero chance in europe. we are 10ngames in and played shrewsbury at home in the carling cup

    ”4) Whilst nobody likes to be trashed by ManUre or cheated by the Spuds the exceptional circumstances of the first match show how far we have strengthened the squad by time of the 2nd.”

    We have strengthened our team enough to lose 2-1 to a good but not great team away and should have probabaly lost by more……wow what strengthening.

    ”5) We had just won 3 matches in a row before this one.”

    Oustanding work arsene we put shrewsbury, olympiakos and bolton all at home to the sword

  396. Because it is not an opinion.It seems some people cant tell the difference Duke,So I am simplifying it for simpletons.

  397. I actually dont agree that we will never win the PL again, even if the FFP doesnt work.

    I believe our young players coming through will be better than most. We are looking at a golden generation at Arsenal.

  398. uniteds biggest advantage imo is that they have a wonderful front 4 in Rooney, Young, Nani and Chicarito or Wellbeck. Then they got boring midfield that are just strong and a decent defence that is never under preassure due to their attaack is so good that nobody manages to press them. When barca did they crumbled totally thouhg.

    I wonder if we got the personell to emulate something like that since we atm struggle properly with our 4-3-3.

  399. but Jabba ambitions equals MONEY. MONEY is ambitions. Football today is MONEY. everything is MONEY. its all about MONEY.

    Even with ambitions of winning we could never outspend United, City or Chelsea. When it comes to salary every player will chose those three before choosing us. Unless they choose us to work with Wenger…

  400. Jabba'sDelights

    George

    You could buy a season ticket tomorrow if you wanted.

    You could become a red member for 30 quid and attend every single game this season due to the lack of demand.

  401. @paul- n hope u are right…but its hard to compete when our max salary next year can be 150k a week and City pay their squad players 180k a week…

  402. thats a lie Jabba cos i tried and there is a waitinglist…

  403. Poodle,

    not from the club, but from one of quite a number of disgruntled fans, more of leasing than buying, but still, there’s plenty…

    as or the waiting list, it’s dwindling at considerable rate and I highly doubt its overall length is anywhere near the 42K+ it was when I signed up…

  404. Stanley M

    ‘Don’t take the piss?’

    Stating a simple fact is now deemed by you to be taking the piss. Is that really all that is left of the Doomer’s argument?

    You are a doomed. Doomed to watch Wenger as your teams manager, on and on and on and on.

    ……and to be a bit of dick.

  405. Paul,I believe that outrageous spending of City has changed the landscape so much that even if we did have the talent,and we might,their buying power and that of others trying to keep up would take our team apart.
    I wish it we not so.Trust me ,I do.

  406. Jabba'sDelights

    Poodle

    You see im a great believer that football will have to follow american sport in future. Its completely not sustainable at its current level. you are already seeing the biggest players complaining about city. Bayern, Real, utd who are all selfsustaining cant stand what they are doing.

    The key is getting your revenue’s high enough for when the european league comes in in the next 5-10 years.

    For us to increase our revenue we must start attracting these floating fans and mega sponsers and the only way to do that is with success. Taking a hit now is actually a calcualted gamble and Usmanov was 100% right when he said that if the product is weak come 2014 renewals lack of investment now will cost us millions more in poor contracts.

    We must start shwoing our teeth both on and off the pitch and realise that we are close to a blackhole and its our own risk averse attitude which is causing the problem. 50m left in the trnasfer kitty plus over 100m in the bank and only 97m total debt. we have a huge amount of more improvement

  407. suga can i have your tickets then mate???

  408. bleh, anyway its 2 weeks to next game righ? we seroisley cannot continiue walking in rings like these and snap at each others tales for two ficking weeks! thats just suicidal regardless of wheter you are Suga or George. Its highly unlikley AW will get the sack during these two weeks anyway, and its also rather clear that our discussion on the topic are not bringing us any closer to a conclusion.

    I tend to find this tedious though.. Its only so much i can disagree with Suga about.. I doubt we would be able to fill two entire weeks!
    I mean I already know his stance about AW and Arsenal and unless hes hit by a brick in the head over the next week i doubt he will ever change. I sense two loong weeks coming up..yawn… anyone know whats wrong with Chesney btw??

  409. duke,

    I am not a holder, but I am pretty much expecting to be offered one next summer, I will happily lease it to you until Wenger is tin tacked…

  410. Thanks Jabs for the attention to detail, but still substantively….nothing.

    No remedy, no who, no how, no acknowledgement of the challenges of facing the billionaires and no analysis of why anyone else would be better.

    There is only one in the premiership that does it better and he ain’t coming.

    ….and no Stan, I did not read that in the newspaper.

  411. Jabba'sDelights

    Poodle

    there are thousands of season ticket holders and silver members who are trying to loan there tickets but there is no demand. Saying that i know red members who dropped over 10,000 places on the list this year.

    you could attend every home game this year just buy buying on general sale. 19 prem and lets say 4 home europe and 4 domestic cup would set you back about 1300 but fans arent doing it.

  412. Suga 3

    Enjoy the long long long long wait. Maybe you could go and support a team more in your mould in the interim……..

    Birmingham City?

  413. @ George and Poodle, I understand your concerns. How I see it more money will be available to sure things up but with the core being committed Arsenal players I see us beating the odds. It will not be easy but we have some sublime players coming through our ranks that are not in love with Barcelona and seem to love the club above the big pay day. It seems so to me.

  414. be like the old days. down there for lunchtime to the ticket office.

  415. Poodle

    “regardless of wheter you are Suga or George” WTF Is that supposed to mean.” ?
    Am I an extremist?
    I am hurt.Cut to the bone. 😦

  416. @Jabba well i think the original plan was to see the time out to 2014 with top 4 as ambition then renegotiate deals and highten the ambition level. But i agree, and trust me it worrys me alot.
    But i think AW was telling the truth when he said he had the “summe from hell”. Mata was alredy bagged, then suddenly he went to chelsea. Something happed there behind the scenes that we do not know. No way 2M was what made him dissapear.
    I am aslo sure that Arteta was our 5th or 6th choice. We were in for alot of great players in the 20M range. But as was also stated the movement of players of that calibre was slow this year. But those are the ones we need. The “future nasris” if you want. That is what we were after this summer. I think anyway.

    Im thinking that if Dormund are not going through from the CL group Gomez can be bought. Grimandi stated that the club has identified the replcement for Cesc already but that his club did not want him to leave this summer.

    But everything depends on that crucial 4th place though. If we are ever to fall out of top 4 we will have troble. But im sure we will manage.
    However i am not sure the club is really and then i mean really trying to win the PL or going for anything like than until after 2014.
    They did have a long term plan when starting to build Emirates, i think that is what we are witnessing atm… Whete you like it is a totally different matter 🙂

  417. SA Gooner,

    oh, don’t you worry, in all likelihood, he will walk this season…

  418. Well Paul,I hope you are right .
    I just believe that there was another massive change when City qualified for the CL.
    I think we have not yet seen the extent of excess.

  419. ” i think the original plan was to see the time out to 2014 with top 4″

    I agree but think the emergence of City has thrown an enormous spanner in the works.

    You really are very insightful poodle.You posts are a treat.

  420. oh and Jabba regarding tickets, thats not only Arsenal though, its all over England. Same with United and alot of the smaller clubs around. But there are available tickets to all the Old Trafford matches too aparantly(or so my United mate says, that maybe have something to do with the Glazers?)
    The reason is mixed but alot is due to the global finances. And proably also that footy in general have lost a bit of its charm. ( see Tevez, City extreme wages and self centered stars).
    I think alot of fans find that their money is better spent elshwere regardless of what club they support. Most also got sky nowadays, alot cheaper than to take your family to Old Trafford for a day out. But ofc it does not help that your club looses alot i agree with that…

  421. …and there are some fans who are specifically not willing to give the club money to misappropriate on shit like building flats or new restaurants at the ground…

  422. Suga3 Are you being humerous or are you a bit thick?

  423. george,

    mate, I don’t think he will go beyond the present season and quite frankly, he should walk earlier before any further damage is done…

    he will not turn this around (and by doing so, I would consider achieving the top four finish, forget about winning anything) and I am pretty sure of that…

  424. worst thing though is that City was given 9 points to much last year. No 4 was suppose to have been Tottenham ,not City if the refs had done their job properly….
    Those 9 poins would have meant nothing of importance for us, but for City and Tottenham they will have had a HUGE impact.

  425. Suga! This season? You better hold on to that ticket then mate, it will be worth a fortune.

    You know the one that you are hopefully going to get, because nobody wants to see Arsenal play any more.

  426. @suga lets hope you are wrong, cos i dont think that if he walks he will walk before the summer, and i dont wanna finish under top 4.

  427. Poodle,

    and you think we will finish in the top four under Wenger?

    SA Gooner,

    one thing for sure, these tickets won’t be bought by keyboard warriors from afar…

  428. He has never not honoured a contract.
    Look I respect Arsene Wenger above all people who I do not have any personal relationship with.
    So to anybody who disrespecs him I ask you who do you respect?
    I respect Loyalty,Honour, Inelegance ,Vision,Humour and I see all of those things in Wenger.
    So give me the name of someone you respect?

  429. “one thing for sure, these tickets won’t be bought by keyboard warriors from afar…”

    Cheap and frankly pathetic

  430. Wenger has lost it; demonstrably. he cannot put a winning team on the pitch and frankly doesn’t now know what one should consist of. Let’s not kid ourselves folks. People in all sorts of professions age and lose that edge that propelled them forward in their earlier years. It’s natural. Just think where we’d be if he’s spent 15 million last January. As it is we”ll miss Champions League next year and lose, what 26 mill as a result? And he’s an economist too?? I’m not sure given the blinkers he wears that he can see he should go. Fire him next April. We’re going nowhere.

  431. george,

    nah, just factual, and that should sit with him well, given that he likes his facts, you know, like ‘winning three games in a row’…

    someone I respect? My mum and my nan…

    what should I be respecting an employee of a football club for? he is paid nearly £7M to get on with his job, he needs your respect like a hole in the head, do you think he respects you?

  432. Copernicus
    Wonderfully constructed argument,you got me @”Let’s not kid ourselves folks.”
    And 20/20 hindsight as well as a psychic”

  433. heres my vision for a bright future..
    1..a board whos main concern isnt putting all the money the club make into a bank account for it to be never seen again..we dont need a sugar daddy, we need an owner who isnt afriad to plough all the money the club makes back into the club cos we make a shit load of it, and not into an account that seems to have been opened in the bermuda traingle..we need someone on the board who isnt afraid to go that extra 50k further or 10mil higher to get or keep what we need..its fucking frustrating that we have a cash reserve of over 100mil and rising every year only for the manager to come out and say we cant compete with our rivals anymore..its an insult to all the fans who were told we were relocating to compete with the big boys cos we were going bust and punching above our weight paying players too much at highbury and an even bigger insult to the fans who have been spending their hard earned beleiving this shit..

    2..we need a confident, none excuse making before a balls even been kicked in anger, manager and a backroom staff, who can organise, motivate and build a confidence ouzing team that wants to win at all costs, against all odds whoever the opposition and isnt obsessed by trying to pass the ball into the net instead of taking any chance we get and isnt obsessed by youth development and the stockpiling of young players..

    at the minute neither of these are happening and we are turning into a sleeping giant..a volcano laying dormant..and there really is no need..
    our board have become tighter than a mermaids arse and wengers lost that sparkle in his eye he had for the first half of his reign and these things have been happening for a few years so its little wonder we are club on the slide, totally shot to bits of confidence..what does shock me though is the sudden implosion, i expected us to decline gradually and not fall out of the arsenal way philosophy tree, hitting every branch on the way down and ending up totally fucked..all in the space of a year..

    bad times at arsenal..never have i seen a club with so much money be so much fucked…someone needs to be held accountable and questions need to be answered and not avoided or answered with spin that makes no fucking sense anymore..

  434. So Just as I suspected Suga3.
    You have no respect for anyone except yourself.
    If he met me I believe he would show respect among other things.Because he is that type of a man.
    So you cant give me one example of a person who you respect outside you known associates,
    Make one up ,How about Mandella?

  435. So how do we go about changing the majority shareholder JJ?

  436. Enough is enough.
    My trench is filling with water.

  437. george,

    if I met him, I would be asking him questions, not kissing his arse…

    someone I respect outside of my known associates?

    hmmm, dunno, someone like Pasteur (long time ago, I know), who cam up with something that saved people’s lives?

  438. by stopping the excuses and blind faith and start realising the reality of the situation that we are being bent over and shafted..

    those wherehaveourarsenalgone boys have the right idea but theyve also got too many wrong ones to make it stick with a larger cross section..

  439. People get more pleasure from moaning than they do from supporting.Strange behaviour.

  440. theyve got every right to moan george..

    this shit we are in is self inflicted..we had the minerals to be set for life..the foundations were laid for us to push on and become one of europes best..

    instead greed and egotistical obsessions have taken its evil grip and look at the mess were in..we cant even defend anymore..

    the fans are the victims in all this..the people to blame are the ones ‘running the club’..

    you wanna dig your trenches and fight the good fight?? then do it against those fuckers…

  441. They have a duty to support as well JJ.
    Has Arsenal never struggled before?
    “egotistical obsessions” oh please don’t start with that shit JJ you are better than that.
    I am fucked of as well you know.But”egotistical obsessions”Do me a favour.

  442. george,

    duty to support, yes, but that support should only be aimed at wanting what is the best for the club…

    is the current path the right way forward? the table tells a different story…

    once the board / manager / player (less so) do not pull their weight, they lose my support, I support Arsenal, but I want the manager and the board out…

  443. Well one is unlikely and one is downright impossible.Suga3
    So where does that leave you?
    Oh yes, on a fools errand.

  444. unlikely? just wait, if we don’t build any momentum until Xmas, he will be made to walk or just sacked…

    as for the impossible, Yank will sell out to AU making a quick buck once the 12 month period is up, watch this space…

  445. anyways, nice chatting to you, but I gotta sleep, good night 🙂

  446. how can you support something that doesnt give a shit about you??

    bit of a one way street that isnt it..not a level playing field..not a fair relationship is it..

    fuck em..

    so money making isnt an egotistical obssession..??

    yeah im hurting but its not the team its not their fault, results dont bother me cos my expectations are lower…its the way we are run mate..they are having our pants down..

    remember those odds i gave u on cesc and nasri..i’ll make it double or quits that rvp is next..

  447. Who are they JJ ?
    If “they” includes Wenger then I can not agree.

  448. so money making isnt an egotistical obssession..??

    Are you serious?
    since when has making money been egotistical?
    JJ step back and think what you are saying.
    You are one of my very favorite people on here and the last thing I want is an argument, but you have got to be kidding.
    That was not what you meant I don’t think

  449. yeah george if you want the truth i think wengers a huge part of the problem..
    but ive said before if he cant turn this round and get inside the players heads then his days are numbered we need someone else..that clocks ticking..

    our club is all about whos got the biggest bank balance..its the only thing we can boast..of course its all about egos its the classic im considerbaly richer than you mentality..

    we aint a football club…we a fucking cash cow..football doesnt even come into it anymore we dont even need cl revenue remember we just sell our players instead…

    we’ll have to finish this discussion later mate im knackered..

  450. Suga

    And in one sentence, you know why I never listen to a word you have to say,

    >I will happily lease it to you

    A true and loyal Arsenal fan, one who will stand behind the club just far enough to be able to knife it in the back. I am glad to see that your principles of protest about the manager and board are strong, that you are willing to make a stand and show your discontent with the club. Until the good times return, when you’re the most loyal supporter.

    And the brilliant thing about it? You don’t even realise how you condemned yourself as a glory hunter.

    YW

  451. I hope he’s spammed forever..

  452. YW,

    nonsense, I just don’t feel like lining the pockets of the inept board and the manager, that’s a world of difference…

    and besides, I am not knifing the club in the back, willing to offer someone the chance to attend the games at lower overall price, yes?

    glory hunter? do me a favour, Yogi, you know better than that…

  453. besides, most of these holier-than-thou-Billy-Big-Bollocks supporters who talk crap about how lucky we are to pay top dollar to watch substandard show is in position to put their money where their mouth is…

    talk is cheap, simple as that…

  454. *is not in position

  455. I am not one who is called for the manger to be sacked, but nobody should be 100% safe in any job. I am wondering (genuinely); those who say he should have a job for life, at what point would this not be the case? Hypathetically of course. What if we were relegated? Should he still be unsackable?

  456. SUGA3

    >willing to offer someone the chance to attend the games at lower overall price,

    Until the squad starts winning again and you then say, “Sorry mate, I’m going to start supporting the team again“. If you really feel that strongly about the situation, you decline your season ticket and go to the back of the queue.

    YW

  457. YW

    Suga is not the only one willing to LEASE their ST. although him not having one will make it hard to lease. Following twitter I read quite a few fans trying to do it.

    Some people are genuinely short of the money to go while others belong to that daft black scarf load of twats.

  458. Any supporter worth their salt supports through good and bad times. Nothing wrong with having a moan, but come match day be 100% behind the team.

  459. dups

    It’s a general thing. I’m condemning Suga because of his hypocrisy for condemning overseas supporters for not putting their money in when he’s planning exactly the same. Buying a season ticket and then leasing it out is not putting your money where your mouth is, that’s just glory hunting.

    If people can’t afford the ST in the first place, sorry, let it go. I had a season ticket until ten or so years ago. My priorities changed with a young family, so it went. I still go to games but know I have other commitments that mean I can’t go every week like I used to. Having a season ticket is to many people, a fashion icon, a status symbol.

    Just to make the point absolutely clear: Leasing out a season ticket is not a protest. A real protest is to not renew. Leasing out your season ticket is saying, “I don’t want to support a team that isn’t winning trophies” and that by any measure is glory hunting.

    YW

  460. Goonerandy,

    I have not read every single post, but nobody that I saw has said that Wenger should have a job for life, you are being disingenuous with that argument.

    Doomers,

    It is amazing that the Le Grove came on this site yesterday, among the spuds and other Troglodytes, to gloat about a robbery the took place at Shite Heart Lane. My heart goes out to you for you have all lost your ways.

    Do yourselves (and the rest of us) a favour , go and support a team that will make you happy. Your analysis of the theft and lies and the rest of your baloney about Arsenal states to us all that the job is a simple one and that there is mischief afoot. There must be, by this logic, loads of clubs out there that are able to compete so easily as you say with no money or have billions to compete with: £100 million for Modric and bloody Torres, that is what Chelsea can shell out.

    In one go that is it, that is all we would get. That is the clubs lot gone on players that are not that bloody good and it is before one of them gets paid.

    The Grovers will tell you need Usmanov to compete. Well if you think you are unloved at Arsenal try getting a Chelsea supporter to tell you who their manager is. They had the best in the World and they won and won. Now they have his assistant. Makes them feel like they are going forward I suppose, but it is ego over sense.

    This is even before we discuss where Mr Blobbynov got his money from and how many people were robbed and murdered in the process.

    Gives us the names of who your manager is that is going to work this miracle and then we can decide how reasonable, realistic or desirable it is. Otherwise you all sound like some harping, stupid lynch mob.

  461. YW

    “Just to make the point absolutely clear: Leasing out a season ticket is not a protest. A real protest is to not renew. Leasing out your season ticket is saying, “I don’t want to support a team that isn’t winning trophies” and that by any measure is glory hunting.”

    I agree with all of that.

  462. To add to that.

    If you lease your ST you are still giving money to the club, just not your own. Strange form of boycott that.

  463. 50+ years supporter:

    Awful lot of folks out there equating criticism of AW with criticism of AFC. They are not the same. We all want AFC to succeed (bloody obvious) but Wenger is an obstacle to that. He can’t motivate players, can’t deal with players who let him down game in, game out, can’t see the holes in the system and is taking the club out into the wilderness of mid table oblivion. He looks knackered too. Like a loyal employee who has given sterling service over the years but needs to retire for his own sake and that of the company. He was the right guy at the right time years ago; times/challenges have changed.

    How can anyone disagree with that basic analysis? Can’t the board see that?

    if you do disagree give us the reasons why he should stay.

    Keep emotion out of it and don’t simply say ‘let’s spend money’.

  464. Copernicus

    The only thing I agreed with you about is the fact that AW looks knackered. You’ve made some pretty definitive statements, e,g, that he can’t motivate, deal with the players, etc., as if they are fact but I’m guessing you are no more privvy to that information than I.

    Keep emotion out of it and don’t simply say ‘let’s spend money’.

    Few use spending money as a reason for him to stay. In fact that’s a criticism of him, that he won’t do the spending.

    YW

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