Lucky Arsenal? Time For That Tag To Be Buried

Arsenal 0 – 2 Liverpool

0 – 1 Ramsey (83 o.g.)
0 – 2 Suarez (90)

Sent Off: Frimpong (72)

Two late goals following Emmanuel Frimpong’s sending off, earned Liverpool a barely-merited first win at The Emirates. There can be no arguing with the dismissal of Frimpong, had he not been booked beforehand then his over-enthusiastic lunge would have probably seen him receive a straight red.

The defeat – aligned with the comments of David Dein earlier in the week – has led to Arsène defiantly stating that he has no intention of walking away from the club. We see the angle that media coverage of Arsenal will take this season. That and the demands that he spend, spend, spend.

It was a mixed bag of a performance. For a man whose commitment was openly questioned beforehand, Samir Nasri set about signing off in style. Rumours of the collapse of his Manchester City seem fanciful, the Frenchman came close to providing a goalscoring finale to his Arsenal career with an impressive run through the heart of the Liverpool team. Emmanuel Frimpong also gave a heartening display on his debut, hassling, harrying, shooting; the all-action performance many demand in a genuinely defensive midfield role.

Outstanding performances from Vermaelen (most people’s Man of the Match) along with Miquel, denying Liverpool’s expensively assembled forward line much sight of goal until overwhelmed in the final minutes. The young Spaniard repaid his manager’s faith when replacing Laurent Koscielny with barely a quarter of an hour played. He might be playing more frequently with the news that Koscielny is going to be missing for two weeks.

There were those who were subdued, Walcott and Arshavin were not at their electric best, disappointing as they are the players others will be looking to lift them or provide the creative spark in the absence of departed colleagues.

Those efforts and the hard work that the team put in are the cornerstones of a positive mood overall, despite the result. Dismal officiating once more takes centre stage. Meireles might have been marginally offside in the build-up to the first goal but the margin is not important, offside he was. Miquel looked devastated as his clearance slammed off Ramsey and into the net. Football is a cruel mistress.

Frimpong will be disappointed that his actions have been a fundamental cause of defeat. He played well and offered an alternative to the style of Song. His first booking was unnecessary, a confrontation which was emminently avoidable. The enthusiasm of his debut belied his inexperience at times. Yet there is now another vacancy in midfield for next week’s trip to Old Trafford, possibly two if Nasri departs beforehand. Are there that many fit midfielders left at the club? Jack Wilshere is mentioned as probably being ready for a return, Wenger must avoid the temptation of solving the short-term problem by creating a longer-term one through rushing the youngster back.

He may not need to. This weekend has seen Marseille confirm that an offer for Lucho Gonzalez was rebuffed, Rennes Yann M’Vila is subject of a £20m approach (or anywhere upwards from £12m) whilst comedy value comes from Kaka being a loan target. That is if £9m isn’t spent on Per Mertesacker instead.

There is no doubt that Wenger and the club are trying to strengthen the squad, the question is whether they need to loosen the purse strings a little more. No doubt that the financial health of the club has been achieved through careful use of funds but to miss out on players now would unnecessarily place strain on the bank balance in future time.

Even with the departure of Cesc and Nasri soon to follow, Wenger has a hugely talented squad. The youngsters come in and do not look out of their depth, evidenced by Jenkinson as well yesterday. Yet they need the guiding hand of experience as well. Hopefully the manager will be able to land those needed to give the squad the boost that will prove their numerous detractors wrong.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on August 21, 2011, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 399 Comments.

  1. tough times

  2. Frimpong like a new signing. This kid is really good.

  3. And chesney the best keeper in the league

  4. this is the start we would expect with the pre season we had.

  5. Got to your second para and was reminded of this article on Untold Arsenal about the recent media coverage of Arsenal:

  6. Great stuff Yogi!

    Very balanced write up. Our team deserved a draw atleast. Very spirited performance and we can be very proud.

    I too am hoping for just the right experience and skill to be bought. What we can be sure of is that Arsene is the man to spot the right players that are needed.

    with that, back to bed for me.

  7. So proud of the boys. We could have won but for the early injury to kozzer. That disrupted the whole plan. I believe we ll be stronger this season all we need is a couple of decent signings and we are good to go.

  8. As always, well-balanced views amid a sea of hysteria and depression. It is a long road back, but to panic now is not the solution. Yes, Wenger and the board have made mistakes (not just this summer but over the last few), but the question remains: if not Arsene, then who?

    Wednesday is the critical game for us, not Old Trafford. Scrape through there, add 2-3 top reinforcements – and ideally a couple of squad players for depth too – and we can start to rebuild.

  9. Keen post YW..
    Can’t fault the lads or the manager for yesterday
    Very impressive effort by all

    as the tag for our latest guns.
    The future looks positively luminous.

    We are the Arsenal
    and will go to Italy and grab our rightful place as a group headliner in the CL
    With a fuller team than Yesterday’s

    ..i remain POSITIVE

  10. Nice post.

    Nice to see every single player 100% committed yesterday despite the loss. Frimpong was awesome, his inexperience you could say cost us in the end but the midfield seems to be left exposed over and over again. Song more often than not picks up a yellow, I suspect the same will go for Frimpong now too.

    Still had faith we could get the 3 points, well until the red. We should have got 3 against Newcastle too. 0 goals in 2 games is a pretty poor showing you have to say.

    With Diaby, Wilshire, Rosicky, Gervinho, Song, Gibbs, Djourou and who else missing I have to say it isn’t as bad as people are making out. I personally and honestly feel a couple players will sure things up. We have a lot of talent, energy, speed, we are just missing that experience and cohesion right now.

    Those that asked for major changes are getting it. It is pretty unreasonable to ask for things to just click straight away, especially while our transfer business is yet to be concluded.

  11. 1loosecannon,
    Agree about Szczcesney but I thought he was at fault with the first goal, being caught in no-man’s land. If you leave your line, you must take the ball.
    Or am I being too critical?

  12. High points for me: Chesney, Vermaelen, Frimpong, the debuts, the fighting spirit. This side have been asked to dig in by everyone and they did; to defend, and they did. We needed to see people step up after Cesc and maybe we’re starting to see a bit of that, too.

    Yes we have big problems, but we also hear that the club are doing something about it. I hope so, otherwise it will be a longer, tougher season. By the way, the Kaka rumour may be for a loan deal it seems.

    Listened on Radio 5 live and Graham Taylor commented about our injuries that the “soft tissue” ones we have are preventable. Wenger looked into this a while back, but I never heard the outcome. It’s like a sending off a game at the moment, never mind actual sendings off.

  13. Yogi – great analysis and a very good read.

    To all the detractors and defensive pessimists from yesterday (yes, including alan Suga 3), since it’s Sunday and I’m feeling proud of the boys after yesterday’s gritty performance, why don’t we engage in some productive discussion.

    My take is that there’s a section of the support seem to be hell bent on wanting Arsenal to live beyond its means. Some claim that we have 2 billionaires, and that’s enough for us to demand that Arsenal must live beyond its means to survive. The difficulty of this is that both Usmanov and Kroenke wouldn’t bankroll any of their other businesses and plough money into it to artificially plug financial holes. They would expect each of their businesses to stand by themselves and not live beyond its means. Why would Arsenal be any different?

    The issue to me seems to be that of ideology and understanding of why we’re in the position we are in. There’s a narrative out there about this philosophy and approach to youth development being of Wenger’s making and he is called stubborn, egotistic, intransigent, an, also said to have lost the plot because he doesn’t want to move with the times.

    Arsenal is not in this position because Wenger is carrying out an experiment. The truth is that it’s a necessity for us to balance paying for a stadium and being competitive with other top European clubs.

    Those who have chosen to have sugar daddies have spent over £1.9 billion just to get to the stage of being competitive and to win trophies in the last 6 years. This isn’t normal – if any business was not profitable or solvent, no one would plough billions of their own money (money which they’ve pretty much lit a bonfire with as they won’t get it back) – just to keep a business afloat.

    Even clubs like United, Barcelona and Real Madrid are drowning in debt and rationalizing it with the success they have on the pitch. But is it really success when the very existence of your club is in jeopardy? United have to float the club in Singapore just to raise working capital to service debts and this is said to be successful?

    When the banking system in Spain collapses – and it will – or at least, it will stop existing in its current form because of the turmoil in the Eurozone – what do you think is going to happen to Barcelona who are drowning in over £300 million of debt? I hear people say that some rich sugar daddy is waiting in the wings to bail them out and they won’t be forced to fail. But football doesn’t exist in a vacuum. If the Spanish economy is on its knees, the ball game is up for Broke Back and Real Madrid. Even as we speak, players are on strike over grievances with wages over the last 2 years. The Spanish league is not what it seems like.

    Granted, Arsenal has some work to do to rebuild the team, but it’s ludicrous to expect it to happen within a few weeks after a team that has been built around Fabregas.

    Do you honestly think the answer is to call in the sugar daddy and ask him to bail us out to compete with 3 teams in United, Chelsea and City who have collectively spent north of £2.5 billion just to keep afloat – money that isn’t clearly generated by the club?

    Even with the Money City has spent, estimates of their annual losses to be published next month will make the £108 million losses they had last year seem like peanuts.

    Teams like Chelsea and Tottenham and even Manure are waiting for Arsenal to do the scouting work as they know we have quality in our scouting infrastructure and then gazump us. They know we can’t afford anything outside the £5 million to £25 million market. Wenger may want to sign players but the minute it’s out in the public that we have an interest in a player, the vultures are out there ready to pounce – and do you blame Wenger for playing his cards from inside his chest. A very good example is what has happened with our bid or Lucho Gonzales. Unlike Arsenal, Marseille decide to sput out to all and sundry what we’re up to – clearly to either make it difficult for us to sign, or even drive up the price. What is it with clubs that love doing their business in the media? It just makes it impossible for us if and when the bids fall apart.

    Yes – our squad is depleted and we need reinforcements. But we also need for our injured and suspended players to come back. But more importantly, we need to work with what we’ve got and the pluck and spirit showed by the team, and in particular the defending yesterday was very encouraging. More than anything last season, we needed players to stand up and be counted. So far this season, we see how much we missed Varmaelen (who btw, I think should be captain – but I’m equally happy to have Van Persie). Szczesny is mperious and Miquel was unphased against Liverpool. Koscielny is immense and Frimpong – well – he’s just becoming an all action hero Mr. T. A run in the eam will knock off his rough edges and he will be the revelation this season.

    My sense is that we need more reinforcements in the creative side and for the midfield to defend better. I wouldn’t want to replace the first choice defence of Vermaelen and Koscielny because they are class. I also like the fact that we’re giving Jethro a bite at the apple and Sagna is already solid. I also want to see new faces, but the notion that we’re in crisis because Fabregas left and we’re in free fall is just nonsense.

    There’s work to do – but a sugar daddy is not the answer.

  14. at last a blog worth reading and not going over board,sensible articulate artical well written.
    and at last real fans not jumping for wenger to go or moaning ,not often i read most off the replys on any blog.

  15. Sheik mansour and abramovich havent put any debt onto city or chelsea, so if they walked away chelsea and city would just go back to how they were before. They have nothing to lose, so unfortunately a sugar daddy IS the answer.

  16. For me,there were more positives from yesterday’s game. Frimpong,jerkinson,miguel were exciting to watch despite being 2nd team players! Verm,chesney,sagna were great. Talking of dismal refereeing,i read about research on how poor officiating cost arsenal 2nd place behind man u,gave chelsea one undeserved point and 9 undeserved points to city. The research also says wolves and wigan should ve been relegated along with west ham not blackpool and b’ham. City should be playing the champ lge qualifier not arsenal and it hurts that this trend has continued this season. Whether we buy hazard,samba,cahill,kaka,poor decisions by ref will cost us games and can cost us trophies,even top 4 finish. Win or lose,a gunner for life

  17. Thanks YW,just the post I needed this morning after a sleepless night,If only the media had your balance.
    Darius,You too mate,I really wish your post and that of Yogi ,was available to a much wider audience.
    It seems unfair that we have such class on ACLF and the general public are served up such absolute drivel

  18. Stanley

    Nothing to lose? Except the billions they lit in a bonfire to get Chelsea and Man City to where they are now?

    The point isn’t whether the individual billionaires have nothing to lose. Without their interventions, those clubs are insolvent.

  19. melcfromfinsburypark

    Very good darius. One thing you didn’t mention in your summation of the difficulties we have had in signing players was the situation with mata. We were apparently close to signing him and I seem to recal him making noises about wanting to play for us and then all of a sudden, the deal is not going to happen. Wenger refuses to say why. It seems there are a couple of potential reasons. Arsenal refused to meet the fee? Arsenal refused to meet his terms? Or, chelsea decided to stick their oar in and arsenal knew that the gazump had begun. Can we ever outbid the billionaire sugar daddy clubs? The most infuriating thing is that this problem appears to be getting worse.

  20. so we are crying out for a flair player to replace Cesc and we lose out on one who was willing to come and for a decent price with fair wages to chelsea it seems. who is to blame for that latest cock up now then.

  21. welcome demongooner,
    may your time be well spent & your comments be representative of a true gooner.

    I agree with Darius.
    We really do have a dual captaincy V10.5
    for our feisty new squad.

    Adams, Keown, Vieira et al will be very proud.
    Give it a few more weeks

  22. nicky says:
    August 21, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Yes, you are being too critical. It was just an unfortunate one.
    I discussed with some friends who actually blame Ramsey for the goal saying he isn’t a defensive player, so what was he doing in the box. I had a hard time trying to tell them its everybodys responsibility to defend. I only succeded in wasting my time and effort.

    Plenty of positives to take from the match. Frimpong’s heart, desire and commitment.
    Jenks good crossing ability.
    Miguel’s composure and defensive solidity.
    Tech9 and TommyV, all have been said already.
    Just a little concerned with those meant to carry the team.
    Theo always seems lost on the wings..he lack wing play ideas, i guess he needs to work on coming unto his left foot.
    Arshavin..puts in a lot of effort but never seem to get it right.
    Ramsey, needs to deliver consistently to be considered anywhere near as good as Fab4.. I think he goes missing when the intensity is high.
    All in all, I hope AW can fix this, else a long season ahead.

  23. But they’d cover all outstanding contracts. Chelsea and city have nothing to lose.

  24. Well said DS!

    Going back to where they were before would be a huge loss though.

    A Sugar Daddy is an answer but not THE answer. I dont doubt that our team will get it right.

    I prefer the word retool instead of rebuild.

  25. Stanley

    In some ways they may go back to how they were before…but with numerous members of the squad on wages of £100k-£250k a week- that’s where they are living beyond their means.

    If Sheikh/Abramovich went they could never pay those kind of wages, even with the funds generated by good runs in the Champions League year on year.

    I suspect another change would be City going back to a 3/4 full stadium too as the “good times crowd” will disappear with the sugar daddy!

  26. melcfromfinsburypark,
    they can’t sign every good player on Earth even if they were trillionaires.
    AFC will always be able to unearth talent.

    I think you and people like you are to blame. Sellouts, greedy agents & unrealistic idealists who always blame an authority figure for their own shortcomings.
    Your support is chicken-feed dude..a dime a dozen

  27. not The “only” answer.

    The team has a lot to lose too. Can you imagine being at the top and fall back to where you were. Also what if these men start wanting some of their money back from the team.

    This type of thing should never be allowed in any sport.

  28. piss of aman you cunt.

  29. sorry thats piss off aman you cunt.

  30. Yogi,

    Without becoming too gushing, well done. This is why you remain number one among Arsenal bloggers, IMO.

    I’m more than a little pleased with the performances of TV5, Frimpong (rashness/exuberance aside!), Miguel (mishap aside!), Szcezerr and Samir (wider circumstances aside!). I was also pleased with the response of Arsene post match and with most of the support for most of the game.

    Campbell and a lump of a defender (hopefully) still to come and others still to make their mark. All in all not a disaster and it is early days.


  31. Additional food for thought.

    In both the cases of Chelsea and Man City, the purchase and financing of these clubs by sugar daddies have little to do with business or football. In Abramovich’s case, it’s more to do with ego and Chelsea is a big play thing for him because it gives him clout to say he owns a Premier league team. It’s a toy and a status symbol.

    With Man City, the Abu Dhabi Investment company is using the sovereign funds of the Kingdom to market the state of Abu Dhabi around the world. The new frontier in the global market is the middle east and in particular the balance of power between UAE, Abu Dhabi and Qatar. All are rich nations who want to flex their muscle. The Qatari Royal Family for example, are on a mission to put Doha on the map alongside the world’s great capitals. Their bid for the world cup, hosting major tournaments like tennis, giving citizenship to mercenary sportsmen to compete worldwide on their behalf – all these are about spreading their name around the world.

    Very few people knew of Abu Dhabi’s influence in sports until the Man City purchase or their hosting of a night time grand prix. These guys are doing this to put themselves on the world map – and that’s why it’s impossible to compete. They’re not just another billionaire with money to burn, they’re sovereign funds with unlimited oil and gas resources. Qatar are doing the same with PSG and Malaga.

    Kenyan Gunner mentioned something two days ago that has some credence and it’s worth some consideration. Considering the motives of the Abu Dhabi sovereign fund, the purchase of Nasri is more of a PR necessity than a footballing decision. They could do without Nasri, but it’s hard to ignore that Nasri is the most high profile Muslim player in the world. Having such a player on their team is not only a PR coup but is seen by their constituency as a very favourable move as Nasri can be considered as “one of them”. Don’t be surprised if Nasri is also crowned the Man City captain.

  32. Danny27, Yeah they’d have to sell almost all there players, but they were rubbish before and would be rubbish again. Their just enjoying their day in the sun and who could blame them?. I agree chelseas crowsd would go back to 15’000, but citys crowd have been loyal even when they were relegated 2 divisions.

  33. duke, come on man. You have no idea what happened so why are you trying to lay blame.

  34. Dukey’s “support” is chicken feed…a dime a dozen.
    Dukey’s “support” is chicken feed…a dime a dozen
    Dukey’s “support” is chicken feed…a dime a dozen


    Get used to it, twat

  35. Wenger would not say why Mata did not come, simply because Gazidis cocked it up and allowed the reasonable buyout clause to expire on 31/07…

  36. oi aman you little shit ed, who wants wenger gone anyway. not me, just pointing out that we have missed out on a very good player, actually i was laying blame at the fukin board, that old over the hill wood.

  37. this board are a fukin joke. incompetent or just clever tight dicks??? which is it.

  38. @ YW
    Great post. You’re right to tick off Frimpers for the first yellow card, but he will learn. (And quickly, let’s hope!)
    I believe AW spoke of scandalous luck – it was scandalous officiating and bad luck combining.

    @ Darius
    I agree but I am afraid we have been here many times before and logic and good sense is wasted on those who do not want to hear it.

    I think that if sugar daddies become the norm, the game becomes meaningless.

  39. this stan looks like the rest of em.. why they sold to him. team is not the priority for them. they will always sacrifice the team to attain profits.

  40. Yesterday we played like a GG team.Lots of effort and fight but no guile.Ramsey Walcott and AA23 were shocking

    Cannot agree YW that Liverpool barely deserved the win.Szczesny was the busiest keeper even when we had 11 men and TV was MOTM.Carragher and Agger werent troubled

    What a good player Suarez is though.He is a real Arsenal type player.who has a football brain

    Frimpong did well but like Song needs to lean some disicpline.The second booking could have been a straight red

    We desperatley need signings this week.3or 4.And we need to sign experience.Not teenagers

  41. The board are Incompetent, without doubt. There is no face of arsenal, no strong figure head. Most of this crap talk lately could of been quashed in one well thought out interview. Instead wenger is thrown to the wolves wearing a red shirt time and time again. Its a joke to be honest.

  42. But you dont know what happened Bro, so why not leave it alone?

    why make assumptions and then get angry as if you know the truth? what a way to wind up yourself.

    Maybe being miserable is like a drug. I am thinking some people like to complain as it gives them some sort of lift.

  43. @ dukey

    How do you knpw that the player’s agent didn’t just use Arsenal’s interest to hook Chelsea – higher fee and higher wages? Just as an example.

    Get your missus to do you a roast dinner and some more crumble, fgs!

  44. absolutely gutted over yesterday’s result, not because we lost, but because once again, liverpool were lucky.

    that is why i don’t like liverpool. they win under teh most bizarre of circumstances, and celebrate as though they played the most outstanding football ever.

    something the media was quick to hype up as well, since they were waiting for it all week.

    the sad truth is that up until frimpong’s sending off, and THAT offside goal, they never looked like they deserved a goal.

    i thought frimpong was the best player on the pitch until he got himself sent off.

    and i thought we were solid in defence.

    but we paid a high price for this game, without getting anything in return.

  45. “Maybe being miserable is like a drug. I am thinking some people like to complain as it gives them some sort of lift.”

    It certainly seems addictive, Paul-N.

  46. no paul, it is seing your club being run in a shambolic way and having an opinion about it. pre season was a joke do you think the board are doing a sterling job then? look at atletico madrid…they sold their want away player and then replaced him a week later with the same money…now that is running a good ship. and dont say there might not be the right players bollocks or we dont know what happend because If we really realy wanted a player guesss what we could get him.

  47. Why are these people hell bent on bringing down the site?

    What a positive post today and here comes the blasted moaning.

    Why is it that we can discuss the negative all day and give one line if any to the positives.

    One thing I am sure about is that we have the best manager in world football.

    I do like the notion of a Kaka loan, he didnt look as bad as was stated on here, he looked rather good. I feel he would be a really good fit for our team and would give us a real boost.

  48. Delia--Block 112

    Two great assessments from Yogi and Darius. Although of course I didn’t enjoy the final score, I did think there was plenty of good play , particularly from the defence.TV5 was amazing and Wojciech ( on my new shirt) commanded his area in a way which bodes very well for the future. Unfortunately Frimpong from the moment he chose to confront the official, was an accident waiting to happen.Gooners around me were all convinced a second card was just a matter of time. Having said that , he does have what it takes and his power and commitment will be an asset.
    Where oh where was our little Russian and Theo , absent without leave! Were they fully fit?Ramsey rushed around using up plenty of energy without contributing very much ,leaving Nasri to provide the limited skill on view. RVP was left isolated and apart from the one chance provided by Arshavin didn’t really feature.
    We, the fans had a pretty good game. There was plenty of singing in my block and the inquest was left to the train journey home.
    The Sunday press have had a field day and Arsene must feel unloved. I do expect reinforcements to arrive before 1/9 but the result on Wednesday will determine the level of signings we can expect. Never has there been, in recent times, a more crucial game.
    Next Sunday may well be game too far for the squad likely to be available. However, we then have an international interlul, during which time some first team players may be signed off the sick list!
    Ever positive and as always COYRs

  49. i dont know whats going on at chelsea but city are not in debt..
    roman still has to write blank cheques for wages granted, but now city have signed that 200 billion a month stadium sponser they are a self sustaining much for the fair play thingy eh..

    good post again..indeed the question isnt are we looking for players..the question is are we ready to stop living in the 80’s and prepared to pay what the players are worth..
    if you walk into marks and spencers and ask the assistant how much for a jacket or a jumper and you get told 25quid, you have to pay the 25quid..if you say ‘no il give you a fiver for it’, what do you think the answers going to be??
    pretty much the same answer as what moyes and most other managers have been telling wenger all summer..

    its ironic that his prudence and undervaluing players has put us in the strong financial position we are in, but at the same time its his prudence and undervaluing players thats leading him into arguabley the toughest period of his reign, a period that looks like hes losing control of..

    basically,if he can offer 12-15mil for an untried teenager that sits on the bench and if he can afford to let nasri walk away next year on a free rather than take 20mil now, then he can afford an extra 2-3mil on a player or three who have been making a name for themselves in the PL for the last 4-5 years..

    so what we been waiting for??

  50. Oi dukey,
    stop laying blame on others.
    Learn to see the bigger picture
    Or just show respect to those who see better than you
    And are running “your” club BETTER THAN ANY OTHER CLUB on EARTH!
    Do you think it’s easy twat?????

    Always easier to whine & lay blame
    Calm down, take in the valuable info from those with it here @ Yogi’s
    (I am always learning many wise, so many really knowledgable ACLFers)
    Don’t post if u have little of value to say
    Or just stay at Le Grove..

  51. @Suga 3 – how do you know Mata had a buy out clause, and that it was time bound?

    That’s just a fabrication of Balague who was doing his “I’ve got an exclusive” nonsense. No one knows that there was a buy out clause and no one knows if it was time-bound. That’s just hear say that gets peddled enough times for people to start believe that it’s actually fact.

  52. fun anyone who isnt pissed off with the situation we are in has not alot of passion for the club in my opinion. just a littl hobby maybe like fishing possibly.

  53. duke, club being run in a “shambolic way”. I dont see that but that is way too much drama for me.

    You dont know what is going on, its that simple.

    I think you need to take a step back and look at the positives, if you cant do that, then I dont see the point.

  54. Limestonegunner

    Darius, Nasri is a high profile Arab player, though not the highest, Benzema is mote widely known. There are lots of higher profile Muslim players and the two are not synonymous as one is an ethno-linguistic identity and the other is a religious one. Ribery, van Persie, Yaya toure and Mesut Ozil are examples of Muslim players who are not Arab, two Eropeans, an African and a Turk.

  55. I think the depth of our squad it good, with many youth players ready to step up. This was certainly evident yesterday. But the quality of our best xi is short…and the form is low. WE NEED 2-3 players who will BETTER our starting team

  56. Sit down you paedophile…

  57. Darius,

    no smoke without fire and all that…

    sorry mate, but I have very little belief in IG’s abilities, which makes it more credible than not in my book…

    then again, each to his own 😉

  58. Limestone – thanks for the clarification and for articulating the arab/muslim distinction better.

  59. Or should i say….STEP down you paedophile.

  60. Does Sagna get the credit he deserves? Yesterday his switch seemed seamless.

  61. Elinesel,

    calling the man a paedo is bang out of order, even in my DooM™ Raider book…

  62. Suga 3 – “no smoke without fire” is the only thing you can come up with?

    And as for IG’s ability, did you know that apart from being a career lawyer, he is considered once of the most competent practitioners of the transfer market and player contract negotiations. And it’s not just hearsay, it’s fact.

    In the 10 years Gazidis was the MLS Deputy Commissioner, a significant amount of player contracts across the MLS crossed his desk. He is not an amateur – and has from time to time reiterated the fact that ARsenal chooses not to publicize transfer dealings because they are difficult and if they don’t become a reality it creates more problems for the club.

    For you to suggest that smoke and your supposed lack of confidence of Gazidis is reason enough to take speculation as fact, then you’re even less of the supporter I thought you were.

    Where is your reasoned arguement and why don’t you want to engage and back what you say with some well thought out and articulated debate. You could well have valid points about the tactical or operational difficulties, but your delivery has a lot to be desired.

  63. “In the 10 years Gazidis was the MLS Deputy Commissioner, a significant amount of player contracts across the MLS crossed his desk”

    Yep, must be really hard to sign up Cobi Jones & Alexi Lalas to an extended deal.

  64. Darius | August 21, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Great insight Darius


  65. Darius,

    did you just seriously compare transfers dealings in Europe with the ones done in the MLS?

    come on dude, you should know better than that…

    and I did not state that as a fact, I said this is what I am finding such events to be more probable than not…

    Gazidis is not a patch on Dein, now that is a fact!

  66. and oh, the fact that these ready made and negotiated contracts ended up on his desk to be rubber-stamped does not make him a transfer negotiator all of the sudden…

  67. @ dukey

    Don’t use your “passion” as an excuse for not engaging your brain.

    What is bollocks is saying that the test of whether you really want a player is whether you get him. Other clubs fail to land their targets as well.

    There is a dearth of really good players and clubs will not let them go. Have loads of clubs bought a playmaker? Have many quality central defenders been transferred in this window? We’ve so far bought who we are able to – and we are still looking and the transfer window is still open.

    As for the time taken, Man City have been after Nasri the whole of this window – why didn’t they buy him on the first day of the window?

    And as for the money, no amount of money is enough if the club doesn’t want to sell. Wenger wouldn’t have sold CF to anyone for any money if Cesc had not been so desperate to go to Barca.

    @ JonJon
    “The price” for a shirt isn’t plucked out of the air. But to go with your analogy, would you pay £40 for a £25 shirt when what you need is a £40 shirt?

  68. Yogi, I know you are not in the habit of moderating people, but I cannot see what is to be gained by allowing low-life scum like the one posting at 11.02 am to use such vile slander against our manager. He is not an Arsenal supporter, just a troll on a wind up and should not be allowed the oxygen of publicity.

  69. YW
    I second Passenal’ s 11:14 comment – I thought he had been banned already?

  70. Nasri was not sold on the first day of the window, because first of all, there was no talk of him leaving and secondly, the season tickets were up for renewal and Gazidis just dangled that ‘we will be very busy in the transfer market’ in the Q&A…

    and for the shirt bit, sometimes the occasion requires you to spend £40, otherwise you will look like a bum…

  71. P.S. Darius, TV5 is already co-captain judging by the way Arsene described him. So we have a captain at the back and one up-front, we just need to find one for the midfield – I’ve got a feeling young Jack could step-up to that one.

  72. So Suga 3 – what are your reasons for not having confidence in Gazidis’s abilities to oversee player contracts, not withstanding the fact that he also has a dedicated person in the club working permanently on this.

    So far, I hear you don’t have confidence in him, but you fail to say why – I’m not buying that we havent signed anyone yet so far. You’re going have to do better than “I don’t like him”.

    And do you honestly think all he did was to pick a rubber stamp and slam it on the contracts? Please.

  73. Limestonegunner – Van Persie is not a muslim, he is just married to one.

  74. Duke,does it not seem strange to you that the manager and the board have been looking more incompetent as City and Chelsea further distort the transfer market?
    Do you think that Chelsea now being interested in Mata has come about because we dropped the ball ?
    Or is it more likely that we had to drop out when they decided they would have him rather than Modric?
    I choose to think when Nasri is about to sign a new deal, and then he does not,And City miraculously pop up with a double your money offer,that Its City and his Agent or even him to blame ,whereas you seem to want to blame our side.

  75. @ Darius
    He’s just having a laugh and your intelligence and rationality are entirely wasted on him.

  76. Limestonegunner

    Darius, your post has some important points but it is too closely conflating the divide between pro-sugar daddy ownership vs. The self sustaining model with the current character of the discontent, frustration and polarization of Arsenal support. There are many who are concerned about the state of the team or questioning how the club has performed this summer who do not subscribe to the pro-sugar daddy approach. It doesn’t help to polarize the ideological dimensions further when what is needed is a unified support of the team to get beyond this very difficult period and a pragmatic defense of common philosophical principles shared very widely among Arsenal supporters in favor of sel-sustainability. Within this model there are still many differences of approach, options and choices to be made and one is around the levels of experience needed to complement the youth development of the team if it is to meaningfully challenge for titles. But right now the danger is more pressing on the pitch and within the support. Are we going to succumb to this dreadful negative narrative that threatens to become a reinforcing cycle and sel-fulfilling prophecy? The thin squad embattled, undermined by a disenchanted and frustrated support, fails to qualify for the CL and has a poor season that gets worse next year because its manager is driven out or chooses to leave a toxic situation and cannot recover against big spenders to get into the CL and loses it’s best players without the ability to attract new ones. That’s a worst case scenario but not so implausible if this negative feedback loop continues and gets out of control. frankly while our economics are generally sound we are potentially in a precarious situation where survival is assured but stagnation possible as well. I think supporters have to shelve their differences for the moment and turn around the atmosphere from bitter civil war to support for the team and its battle against the odds as well as expressing consistent positive pressure on the club to invest its resources (at least generated from the sale of players) into the playing squad to make a real challenge for the title this season. The self sustaining model of a top football club will not work if there isn’t a balance between fiscal prudence and sporting glory that can galvanize the majority of the support to sustain the club at the top level. Right now the model is at risk in more ways than one, I think. And both the club and the supporters have work to do right now.

  77. @Darius agree with most of you assessment in the terrific comments above. I don’t know much abt Man Utd’s finances apart from the fact that even before I knew about the Glazer family coming and buying them , that they were amongst the top 3 popular clubs in the world and they were able to afford big signings like Ferdinand and afford to pay numerous players more than £100k possibly without breaking too much sweat.

  78. @Passenal – I think we’re going to see a midfield of Frimpong, Jack and Diaby in January when Song is on ACN duty – for sure that midfield will have a constant of Jack.

    We seem to be aiming for a transition player who will buy us time while Rambo and Li’l Jack grow into the midfield role. Gonzales and Kaka are the sort of older players who fit that profile.

    But I agree with you – Li’l jack is likely to be the constant in midfield.

    As for Frimpong, many say he will be snapped up by Ghana as a ready replacement for Essien, but I think England are more likely to call him up for the reason that he has been playing with Li’l Jack since the age of 9. In fact, I can see an Arsenal core of the Jenks, Jethro, Frimpong, Li’l Jack and Theo forming the core of the England national team in the next few years – with possibly Aneke and Afobe to be added on.

  79. Darius,

    MLS consists of 18 teams, do you seriously think that his role as a commissioner went anywhere beyond checking the legality of the deals (or listening to the opinions of his lawyers) and signing them off?

    if he was to do anything but that for all 18 teams, then making the transfers happen when solely focusing on one should be a walk in the park, surely?

    what I think is that he is WAY out of his depth in Europe and I am yet to see any evidence to the contrary…

  80. Limestonegunner

    I should say that if we can come out of the next two weeks with a strengthened squad and a sound level of support, we could have a very positive and good season despite the turmoil at the outset. The players are showing some real guts, hopefully the club can do what is needed to help them and supporters can show some mettle.

  81. So many positives yesterday,Frimpong was a star up until he was stupid and AW must give him a mouthful .He will thankfully replace Song given time ,a few weeks I hope. Miquel filled in at the back and was as good as any defender on show. Jenkinson will I am sure become a fans favorite .I am not a Walcot fan and never will be .Back to 442 I think as Robin drops back far to much leaving no target man. I am sure with Gervinho ,Jack ,in the side we would have beaten Liverpool Well played the Arse

  82. Why do u bother darius? You know suga is a troll….
    He wrote for 12 hours non stop yesterday to prove how shit Arsenal is and how big a fan he is.

  83. @ passenal
    “we just need to find one for the midfield – I’ve got a feeling young Jack could step-up to that one.”

    Wouldn’t you rather have TR? Or maybe Song? I agree JW is temperamentally suited and in time I see him as overall captain, but I worry that he is still too young for the responsibility. I know he will probably end up being the driver of the midfield in practice, but the expectation might weigh a little heavy on him. I would want to wait until he started scoring goals, because to me that would be a sign of increased confidence and having grown into his position as a first-choice first-team player.

  84. Poodle,

    liking your little hyperboles much?

    I did not say we were shit, I merely pointed out that we are significantly weaker than last season and that the noises coming out of the club are pretty disturbing…

    now go fetch 😆

  85. Thought the young men did well yesterday. Of course with these ‘reserve’ players we will do well to finish in the top half of the table. It is not their fault that the squad is threadbare of experience. That buck stops with a manager who will outspend every other club for a teenager who has only played on the championship but refuses to spend a bit more to secure the services of an experienced centre back.

  86. Honestly suga is like watching desperat housewives. They got nothing to do so they have to create intrigues based on gossip and assumptions. Like how Gazidies can’t be trusted to negotiate.

  87. The guy at 10.54 must be a Looters Fan as they have now become known .

  88. @ Darius
    It’s Frimpong’s choice and unfortunately for us in England, he has been unwavering in his loyalty to Ghana so far.

  89. Did I not hear that at one point David Dean was such a good negotiator and astute business man that he negotiated himself right into bankruptcy?.

  90. you are more than welcome to prove me wrong, like I said y’day, I am big enough to hold my hands up and admit when I am wrong…

  91. george,

    one does not ‘negotiate’ himself into bakruptcy, what kind of silly idea is that?


    hint: argumentum ad personam is not the way to do it…

  92. Limestonegunner

    Myarse, I believe he converted at least nominally to do so, but my main point is about clarifying the difference between an Arab and a Muslim as there are in fact vastly more non-Arab Muslims globally.

  93. Limestonegunner, we need more bodies because of the injuries, but our current squad with all players fit is not as bad as some people are making out. Cesc cannot be replaced like for like because there is not another one out there, but a tactical shift will see us compensate for his loss. I still believe a lot of those clamouring for us to buy are expecting Arsene to buy a replacement for him and unnecessary pressure will be placed on that player’s shoulders or he could turn into another Adebayor who thought he was the Henry replacement and we all saw how that turned out!

  94. Limestonegunner

    Thanks Arius, I enjoy your posts and discussing with you. Above I take a different tack but appreciate your analysis of the “football bubble”.

  95. pack that crap in..
    you a dipstick or something?? some of us have got babies you nasty motherfucker… not sure i follow your question but lets say if i had 100quid and i needed a rain proof jacket, and it cost 40, but i bought the non rain proof version to save 15quid, then what have i acheived?? ive saved 15 but im gonna get wet..might as well have paid the extra for that extra bit of quality..

    heres a question back…do you think if lille would have told wenger that gervais cost 25mil cos he was their goals and assists machine do you think we still would of signed him??

  96. FunGunner | August 21, 2011 at 11:32 am

    FG, I meant in the fullness of time – the signs are already there

  97. Limestonegunner

    Darius not Arius! iPhone!

  98. JJ, no, and nor should we have

  99. Suga3. You are a silly little cunt. Much worse than Jibber and Luke. Do us a favour, and yourself probably, and fuck off.

  100. My wife cant understand why the country is short of money when we own the Royal Mint and could just make some more.I just smile at her and say “do you think”
    Well for those who believe we should just go out and sign players regardless of fees and wages involved “do you think”

  101. my god your all insane

  102. I agree that yesterday’s performance was cheering and the lads were a bit unlucky. I thought Walcott, Arshavin and Van Persie were poor though (maybe the service wasn’t there for RVP). Frimpong was so much better than Song I can’t believe it. If only there had been somebody there to talk him through the game and keep him calm, but no, we really still are missing leadership. It’s better with TV in the side but we need 3 or 4 more to step up. Maybe when more first choice players are around.

    However, this does not alter the fact that the position we find ourselves in really is unacceptable. The management of the club this calendar year has been incompetent, amateur and absolutely fucking abysmal. Long term problems have been ignored too long. We have a scratch team facing big premiership matches and, even worse, the ECL qualifiers. £20m minimum income to be thrown away because we can’t get our act together in the transfer market. And when the media and a large part of the fanbase queries it then they are the ones in the wrong. We may not yet be the laughing stock of English football but we are embarrassingly close.

    I am not calling for Wenger’s head. To be honest it’s too late for that. If he was going to be offloaded that should have been done before the end of last season not at this stage. We are stuck with him whether we like it or not but I’m sure he will bring it round. But we shouldn’t expect Champions League football this season or next season and I think trophies are a thing of the past no matter who manages us. The owners will nake sure of that.

  103. Bernard,he is no worse than Jibber,

  104. Just Another Luke

    If Nasri plays on Wed and we qualify for UCL group stage, it would be worth every £ lost on Nasri’s transfer should we keep him for the whole of this season and he leaves on a free next summer. Agreed?

    (Not qualifying would be a disaster. A double disaster if Nasri plays and we stil fail.)

  105. Bernard,

    thank you very much for that eloquent and well thought out comment, you must be proud of yourself…

  106. “But we shouldn’t expect Champions League football this season or next season and I think trophies are a thing of the past no matter who manages us. The owners will nake sure of that.”

    No ,City’s and Chelsea’s owners will make sure of that,
    You dont see that though ,do you Billyboy ?

  107. Suga3,the moral high ground is all ready occupied son 🙂

  108. Limestonegunner

    Passenal, I agree with you that it isn’t as bad as some are making out. But it also isn’t a title challenging squad, if we mean for the whole season and really putting pressure on the three teams who finished ahead of us because we already needed more experience and quality last season and have lost some. And this season I really think there are bad consequences for us, for morale and for the future if we don’t bounce back with a stronger season. Right now on the pitch I am wondering where the creativity will come from in order to score goals. We had a drought at the end of last season which has become more severe since RvP hasn’t come back into deadly form. So you are right but on several levels it will be very helpful if the club can reinforce the team with a few signings of quality with experience to balance things and use the proceeds of a potentially demoralizing transfer away to fund the reshaping of the team. A few players, none of which are saddled with the responsibility of “replacing” Cesc, as you say.

  109. no worries george, as I said y’day, it does not give one any advantage anyway 😉

  110. FG/Passenal

    Wasn’t online at the time but he is now banned.


  111. Well it looks like they have some kind of mean streak in them this year. They really fought hard last nite. If frimp continues like this he’s yet another insane academy graduate after cesc and wilshere. England better call him up ASAP as he has not played any officiala matches for is it ganah

  112. pedantic george you’re as dumb as you look

  113. Yet has he?

  114. @ Passenal
    Ah. I see. Agreed.

    @ JonJon
    “ not sure i follow your question but lets say if i had 100quid and i needed a rain proof jacket, and it cost 40, but i bought the non rain proof version to save 15quid, then what have i acheived?? ive saved 15 but im gonna get wet..might as well have paid the extra for that extra bit of quality..”
    That is not the situation – what *you* are suggesting AW should do is pay £40 for the non-rainproof version. AW would be happy to pay £40 for the rainproof jacket, and even happier to pay £25 for it in a sale, (or to spend £5 on materials and run one up himself, as he is an expert tailor).

    Underlying your analogy is the assumption that only £40 jackets cost £40. What AW is saying is that there are lots of £25 non-rainproof jackets which are being priced at £40. He doesn’t think the quality is there in the PL, which is why he won’t pay over the odds. He does think that AOC and Phil Jones are quality and that being young players, they will improve, which is why he bid so high for them – accepting the English player premium. He was successful in both bids, remember.
    Signing Jenkinson for £1m is like finding a non-designer but just as good jacket in a sale. Nothing wrong with that, either, is there? Price does not equal value – price is just what the seller wants to get.

    “heres a question back…do you think if lille would have told wenger that gervais cost 25mil cos he was their goals and assists machine do you think we still would of signed him??”
    I think he would have haggled (as I’m sure he did in the real-life negotiation), and if they wouldn’t budge far enough perhaps he would have bought Alvarez or someone else on his list.

  115. Anyhow, anyone know anything about mvilla? I know his name but that’s about it.

  116. poodle. if we keep losing they will slowly lose that fight. Im starting tot hink we should keep nasri for another year instead of taking the money. Keeping him will give the squad confidence. He showed yesterday he’ll be professional if he stays

  117. Limestonegunner

    I think this team, even without new players, will surprise many observers who are predicting our collapse beyond the top four. From what we saw last night, I don’t really fear Liverpool and the Spuds are unlikely to be any better than last year.

  118. Suga3. I do. Now fuck off like a good little boy.

  119. Excellent and balanced as ever. Great to see your readership has a tad more culture than some blogs. I sometimes despair of the commnents added to my articles on Gunnersphere. We are 2 signings away from beimng sorted and our season will trun on Weds.

    Follow me on Gunnerspher and

  120. Limestonegunner

    Thanks, YW for the post and for putting a limit on trolling abuse.

  121. ps Poodle in naswert to you query. M’Vila is not the answer as he is a direcr reapcement for Song, which would stifle progression of Frimpong. If we need cover there it should be Parker who can play anywhere in midfield.

  122. fun gunner was Enrique a bad buy at 6 million?would scottie parker
    improve the squad and allow for rotation and ACN? do we need Samba
    or Cahill or is Miguel, Squichi sufficient back up?

    Will this squad get into top four?and who do we have to beat Udinese?

  123. Pedantic George,
    Chelsea and Man City only take up 2 of 4 ECL places and Chelsea and Man City won’t win all 4 domestic trophies between them. Is that too difficult to work out. Stick to taking the piss out of your wite.

  124. After yesterday’s performance, I wouldn’t mind Miquel getting more games. I thought he was solid and reassured.

    However, I think on Wednesday, we’ll have a back 4 of Jenks, Song, Vermaelen and Sagna with frimFrimpong, Rosicky and Nasri/Rambo in the midfield.

    Sky and BBC were claiming yesterday that Nasri’s move is in jeopardy, but I think that’s a non-story. However, Wenger should light a fire under Man City’s arse and play him on Wednesday alongside Rosicky.

    But Miquel gave me more confidence than I would have had with Squillaci and I think he’ll do well for the game against the Manure.

    I do worry about our midfield for Old Trafford and hope Li’l Jack is back by then.

  125. aint it funny that its only arsenal fans that worry about the finances and cost of players?? Apart from buying good players,money can also buy you good lawyers and chief execs. All this big clubs agreed to the FFP remember that and if we miss the CL, we are in big trouble… For God’s sake all big business are in one debt or the other, Wenger is just using us for his experiment thats why he’ll never take up a challenge in a serious team.

  126. Bernard,

    I think you will find that the gramatically correct response would be ‘I am’ rather than ‘I do’…

  127. United are lucky though. When they cannot afford a players wage Nike stepps in and rescue them. Maybe adidas could do the sane with nasri and Arsenal?

  128. @Limestone – I’ve just spoken to a vile and arrogant Spud supporter who makes my skin crawl even by being in the same room.

    It reminded me of your new boss. Has he found out you’re a Gooner yet?

  129. and why would they do this, given that we have the Nike kits as well?

    our kit deal has just been renewed this year or a year ago and we are getting peanuts…

    Tom Fox – Nike Employee of the Year!

  130. Our keeper situation is sorted in Szcz.
    Our first choice centreback pairing looks promising but Djourou apart lacks dept. Squill wasnt even included yesterday but a Miquel was. While hes talented id rather Cahill in there.
    Our left back position needs to be addressed. Gibbs needs to be there all the time to bed in but hes never fit enough for long enough.
    We lacked creativity and penetration in the 3 games we have played so far. Now while some of that can be addressed with the return of injured and suspended players theres still a need to add to the ranks.

    To my thinking we have addressed one position (keeper) but have now created a void creatively with the loss of Cesc.
    We have also weakened at left back. But strengthened at right back with the backup swap of Eboue for Jenks.
    We have strengthened the wide attacking positions with Gerv and some extra backup but we could really do with adding to the central striker position, beyond Campbell who looks a prospect but may be used out wide if at all. Will Theo play centrally at times?

    So if we get a centrehalf id be happy to use Vermalen at left back on occasion. I have high hopes for Gibbs but i worry about his fitness. Is another Diaby situation on our hands?

    Whether Nasri goes or not we still need a creative central player. If he doesnt sign a new contract we will just have to revisit this position nest season.

    I seriously worry for Chamakh and i still thing Bendtner will go. So that does leave scope for a central striker?

    The fact we are 3 games into the season and still talking about so many positions also worries me. While i am comforted by our fight and commitment so far i worry that the lack of quality will eventually erode this if we are on the end of similar results to yesterday.

    Wednesday is such a vital game. As is next weekend. Our squad should have been strengthened and more settled going into these games. Balls have been dropped this summer behind the scenes.

  131. Btw if united has reignited their interest in nasri there maybe something in the “breakdown” rumours with city.
    I don’t mind selling him to city but to united?? Now that would suck.

  132. Poodle

    Nike pay Utd about £25m a year as thay are a highly successful team, they pay us about £8m a year until 2014 as we had to take a upfront payment to pay for the construction of the Stadium. Hopefully when the contract is up we can up that money.

  133. Limestonegunner

    Thankfully, no, so far and I am working on a transfer! My condolences on your skin crawling encounter. I suggest a hot bath!

  134. I wonder if it’s actually possible to replace cesc. He is that good. If squill was not on the bench yesterday, will he ever be? I doubt cahill will be happy sitting on the bench too. He is too god for that. And he won’t break up our first pairing. Is there nobody els you see coming in desi? Someone good but not17M ?
    Miquel is 194 btw. He’s tall that kid!

  135. WrightyMightyMan

    Since the League Cup final, it’s 13 points from the last 13 league games.

    C’mon people – wake up!!

  136. It’s insane how the money situation in footy had changed since then. back then non of our deals were really bad. Maybe not great but not really bad neither. Now now they all look silly… Even Stoke probably get mire from their shirt sponsor then us. Oh well only 3 seasons left before renegotiation.

  137. @Orbinho:

    Arsenal have taken 13 points from the last 13 games – the worst run under Wenger. The last time the Gunners had a worse run was in 1994-95.


    15 – If the Premier League had started 26 February (Carling Cup Final weekend), Arsenal would be 15th after 13 games. Beleaguered.

  138. Poodle,

    this deal was actually extended, why could we just not tell them to go fuck themselves?

    oh, I know, this is not the Arsenal way…

  139. “FG/Passenal

    Wasn’t online at the time but he is now banned.


    Thanks Yogi

  140. @ solgooner
    “was Enrique a bad buy at 6 million?”
    Is Gibbs a bad buy at £0 plus wages?

    “would scottie parker improve the squad and allow for rotation and ACN?”
    Improve the squad, I don’t know. Allow for rotation, yes. So would Diaby.

    “do we need Samba or Cahill or is Miguel, Squichi sufficient back up?”
    We could do with a fifth player for depth, and on yesterday’s showing, I would be happy with Miquel as 4th or 5th choice back-up behind TV, Kos and JD. But if you are not happy with Squillaci are you sure you would be happy with Samba? Do you know if Cahill is for sale?

    “Will this squad get into top four?”

    “and who do we have to beat Udinese?”
    The team members who are neither injured nor suspended for European games, which includes Rosicky, Song, Frimpong, Gervinho, RvP, Walcott, TV. Maybe JD as well, as his hamstring injury is less serious than Gibbs’.

  141. Excellent posts from Darius and Limestone today building on Yogi’s constant good sense.

    My heart leans towards Darius’s view but my head towards Limestone’s.

    Patience is a virtue in short supply in 2011. We do need a bit of success in the form of actually winning something as well as following a reasoned approach to team building.

    i read an article linked on here a few days ago that discussed the efforts and progress of the largely new management team at Arsenal. I can’t make up my mind if that sort of corporate approach is a future necessity or just bloody awful.

  142. Poodle

    We had to accept slightly worse deals then Utd and much longer terms in order to get the money upfront to pay for the Stadium but you right Spurs have passed us out on commercial revenue and Utd are around £50m ahead. The SwissRamble has great blogs about this if you are interested.

    Team for Udinese 2L:


    subs: Fabia-Squilly/Djourou-AA-Frimpy-Chamakh-Traore-Ryo/Ox

    I really like Lansbury but AA & Frimpy should be adequate CM cover

    Song & Gerv should be soo ready

    Might be better to play Squilly with Verm instead of Miquel or an unfit Djourou. We can’t just neglect the man & shatter his confidence. We need everyone involved.

    Hope Traore, Rosicky & Jenks are fully fit

  144. Darius – Excellent summation of the bubbly unsustainable market fed by the sugar-daddies at Man City and Chesea. Man Utd long ago decided that they must spend to maintain their dominance and sold their souls to the devil; the end result being the Glazers simply lashed the debt unto the club.

    – One interesting observation is that there are very few among the truly wealthy in England are willing to become sugar daddy’s of the elite “English” Premier League clubs. Most of them sold up their stake to foreign millionaires-billionaires who need the prestige of owning a football club or were otherwise persuaded they can unlock “future” value from these clubs. Kenwright is dying to sell his stake at Everton and so is Bernie Ecclestone at QPR. Something tells me they know more than than the snake oil the media is peddling about the virtues of spend, spend, spend. Only the gullible or the reptiles among us seem to think this is a course Wenger, Gazidis and the board of AFC should recklessly embark.

    – I have no doubt Wenger will try to strengthen the squad before the window is closed particularly a creative midfielder who can help with the transition from Cesc to Wilshere and Ramsey.

    – Well played to the boys yesterday, the effort was fantastic especially the young kids. We had some rotten luck particularly with the failure of the ref and the linesman from seeing a clear offside on the 1st goal. But those decisions never seem to go in our favor, does it?

  145. Fungunner

    The only thing I would say if Gibbs us never fit what does it matter that he cost nothing?

  146. @ YW
    Thanks and well done.

  147. Yogi’s Warrior | August 21, 2011 at 11:59 am

    – I agree with you 100% on this one.

  148. Bob

    Unfortunately necessary, it is the only way to try and reach Utd in the off the field stakes. I just wish for all the invest that has been put into it we had something more tangible to show for it. I mean from that article Utd had 24 secondary sponsors we only have 8 (pulling figures out of the blue sky lets say £24m to £8m per year). so a long way to go yet.

  149. Billyboy “do you think”

    “do you want fries with that?”

  150. If it was that easy to become market leader then every business going would be the market leader
    Had Chelsea and City not turned up and distorted everything we would be challenging United both on and off the field on every front by this stage.

  151. @Consols and Limestone – surely the test of our character is to balance the two states of xaffairs. It’s possible to secuire our long term future while grabbing the low hanging fruit to keep the natives happy.

    My sense is that it’s very difficult for us to complete transfers because all clubs out there know we are looking for reinforcements and are playing hard ball in the same way we did with Cesc. At the same time, the vultures are also circling and whilst club to club agreements can be made, players are also looking for gold plated wages of the Man City and Chelsea mould.

    Take the defence ofor example – we are clearly looking for back up to Koscielny and Vermaelen. Our targets know this and it makes it harder to get a squad player of the right calibre prepared to sit on the bench and come in for injury, suspensions or for tactical changes depending on the opponent.

    I still expect a signing or two, and I think that’s our lot for the season. We need to be prepared to let the changes – and let’s not forget, these changes of players leaving have been huge – to take its course. If Clichy was not good enough for LB, we have to trust Jethro to prove to us that he is good enough. It’s a calculated gamble in my view, if other areas are covered well.

    To be honest, I’m more concerned about our creativity and ability to cut down our profligacy in front of goal. Scoring more goals from midfield in particular will seriously relieve the pressure off our defence. So far, it looks like wenger is trying to find an experienced playmaker in their late 20s or early 30s to bridge the gap until the likes of Rambo and Li’l Jack are fully ready.

    It’s unfortunate that we’ve started with injury and suspensions, but compared to last season, the desire to graft for the shirt and the pluck and spirit shown is commendable, regardless of which personnel we’ve used.

  152. I agree with all that Darius.

    No bottlers on display this season.

  153. Great reading this morning. Fantastic post and lots of refreshingly positive comments.

    Despite the obvious loss I would reiterate many peoples thoughts that the pros outweighed the cons. Frimpong and Jenkinson look class acts. It feels like I’m a kid at the end of Christmas day to me, when you have just had a great day and been told that you still have relatives houses to go to and that they have you a brand new Oxlade-chamberlain bike and the latest Myachi gaming system to check out too.

    The season is a marathon and not a sprint. Jenk and Frimp CAN be counted on for good contributions this season. I would like to read back over comments highlighting the gulf in the Manure signing of Jones in comparison to that of our Jenko. I think they will make for comedy reading. Never mind the comparisons at the end of the season.

    Frimpong is a conundrum. He shows fantastic restraint when he sits back when we have a break on. Leaving himself in such a great positin for tidying up, yet couldn’t stop himself from squaring up to Henderson. Just a bit of youth showing is all. I can see it in him that he seriously cares about this club and he is battling to keep our heads up. In this respect he has a lot of Jacks traits. As has been said before this new breed are more ‘Arsenal’ than Fabregas could ever be. I want to see Lansbury get in on some serious action too.

    Both goals offside and yes we were beginning to suffer due to having only 10 men but we will learn from this and grow stronger. Early lessons are good and if anything yesterday only gave me hope for the rest of the season.

    The squad on a whole is starting to clear up a few of these longtime hovering question marks.

    Such as keeper. Schez (check)
    Defensive mid. Frimp, Song (Check)
    Central Defence. Verm and Kosc (Check)

    In the last instance Vermealen and Koscielny have already shown a partnership that we lacked last season. Wether this is down to the inclusion of a bigger voice (verm) or Koscielny as expected carrying on his fantastic progress, I don’t know. It looks very good though. That said, squillachi seems to have disappeared? I would admittedly welcome the signing of another big bugger to cover with Djourou.

    Other than that, we need a bit of creativity in midfield. Never though that would be said about a Wenger team. We need somebody who can put in plenty of games and not be put into the injury room, someone who has a good bit of cl experience and somebody who isn’t going to be stolen away under our noses by a suga daddy.

    If the player is worth having the chances are we wont land him until we know about our fate with Udinese. Perhaps we’ll get him if we fail, but it will cost more.

    Anyway one defeat can be expected, we still have the rest of the season to prove these bastards wrong. It looks like the team are fighting for the boss, the fans should be too.

  154. Limestonegunner

    Consolsbob, I think it is both. If we don’t have a benefactor, we have to depend on the revenues the club produces but it is terrible because it distances the club from its supporters as it inexorably transforms them into “customers” to be exploited. Suppoters respond by expecting to be entertained passively and so on.

  155. Did the second Frimps booking remind anyone of Jack’s tackle on Zigic last year that earned him a red? A touch of bad control and then nothing but desire to win back the loose ball.

  156. So other people noticing that “We was robbed” with refereeing decisions last season and they continue this season.

    What’s with journos at the Daily mail – are they drinking coolade and starting to defend Wenger? Two very positive articles in the same week?

  157. @ Darius
    Agree again.

    @ Limestonegunner
    This is where “supporter relations” come in – as much explanation of, and information about, the club’s football and business ethos(es?) and its policies and direction as is possible. However the evidence of this summer suggests very strongly that there is a section of the support on whom all explanation will be lost.

  158. @ Vince
    Yes, totally. He will be sent off a couple more times before he learns his lesson, I suspect.

    @ Darius
    Perhaps someone is being schmoozed within an inch of their life?

  159. why hasn’t wenger been sacked yet?

    why are we delaying the inevitable.

    why not just sack him now and get it over with.

    let’s start rebuilding early.

  160. I haven’t seen or read any so called independent reviews of the match. Did they mention how effective Liverpool’s big money new signings were yesterday?

  161. Yogi:

    Nice review of the game. The game needs video replays. The offsides calls are basically 50/50 guess for the linesman. You can tell that there was offsides by slow motion replays with lines drawn thru the last defender on TV. We have been on the other side of that same problem many times. Birmingham got the shaft early in the CC final when they should have had a penalty and Szcz should have been sent off. Video replay would solve that problem immediately. In real time there is absolutely no way to get that call correct consistently.

    I don’t think there is any incompetence in our front office. I think that the management of the team has made a conscious decision to manage the team the way they currently do. It started out as a money issue when the stadium debt seemed overwhelming but it has morphed into a philosophical choice at this point. There is clearly money available now to strengthen the team. No one denies that. I can understand that we might miss an experienced target occasionally for some unforseen and unknown reason but when it happens again and again and again it becomes harder to believe. The fact that we are able to sign talented youngsters away from the likes of Man City and Chelsea etc means that we are willing to pay what is needed to get those type of players. Why would Man City or some other suger daddy team not want to get someone as good as OX or Jenkinson. For whatever reason we have decided to do business the way we are now. If it works Wenger will be a hero but make no mistake that given the mood of the fans and the things the experienced players on the squad all say that we are taking a big risk.

  162. Thanks Darius, its airing today

    ARTICLE: Cheated! Maybe Wenger is right to feel paranoid

    The research was done by Tim Long, a broadcaster and sports journalist, for his radio documentary, Beyond The Goal Line: Football’s Technology Debate, airing among other places on BBC Radio Manchester at 2pm today

    Read more:

  163. Bill the reason why young players come here is because they have a better chance to play. Money doesnt mean that much if you are stuck in the reserves or always on the bench.

    Another thing is these sugar daddy teams are mostly after ready made stars.

    I think replay would be good for offsides. What would still be a problem if is a player is through on goal and the flag goes up. The best they could do is give the ball back to the team.

  164. Parker’s having a wonderful game for West Ham. I’m not saying he’s the right fit for us but his ability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and drag everyone forwards with him is undeniable.

  165. I take back what I said this summer about moving TV5 to LB. He was awesome yesterday.

    Frimpong was very good. His energy was phenomenal. He is the type of player that we have needed since flamini left the club. I still it’s far to early to ask him to play the pe of minutes he will probably be asked to play this year. Mistakes like yesterday are going to happen and I worry that there will be more harm then good because no matter how good he is there are going to be struggles and inconsistency. he has the potential to be a true bedrock player for many years to come if he can maintain his attitude and energy

  166. Paul @ 2:46:

    Money does not matter to them or their teams? Yeah right.

  167. “It was noticeable that the few people shouting “spend the fucking money” all looked like they were schoolboys masquerading as men. Earn a living before insulting the greatest manager we’ve ever had.”

    There are some highly successful, super-ambitious schoolboys masquerading as men on here if you don’t mind, Bernard. With Italian suits and a German motor, gated driveway, bulging biceps and sex drive like a traction engine.

    And all this in spite of possessing all the personality of a Big Brother contestant, all the people skills of herpes and all the likeability of an infestation of grinning bed bugs who only strike when your air conditioning is on the blink.

    Weird. Unbelievable almost.

  168. limpar at what point do you leave your state of delusion.

  169. Bill, I am sure you know what I mean but something told me you would be hung up on that.

    Yes they want to get paid and the selling team wants money but the players want a chance to learn from the best manager as far as working with youth. They want an opportunity to play as soon as possible and as far as top clubs go, Arsenal is the best on that front.

    Listen to all of the young players who come to The Arsenal and you almost always here them talk about how Wenger works with young players.

  170. Excuse me, BOOZY?

  171. @ Paul-N
    Don’t waste your energy on him – he’s doing a Suga3.

  172. A great write up as usual Yogi.
    The only paragraph with which I have some disagreement is the one that starts “There is no doubt that Wenger and the club are trying to strengthen the squad ”
    I have such a doubt I’m afraid. More and more AW’s statements are defending the status quo and stating why there is no need to bring in other players.
    Yes, if the right bargain comes along he will bring him in, but is he really working hard on targets? I don’t know.
    And I believe he is being deliberately obtuse when he argues against the fans chants by saying spending doesn’t guarantee a good team. “Bring in a couple of high quality players even if it involves a considerable amount of money” somehow doesn’t have the immediacy to make a good chant.
    AW says the teams needs a lift. So do the fans. A couple of good signings would do both, but will it happen?

  173. Paul

    With regards to video replays of off sides the linesmen could be instructed to give the attacking team the benefit of the doubt and let play continue. If the play leads to a goal or a stop in play such as happened in the cc final then the manager could request a video review. Not perfect but much better then the current system

  174. Limpar,

    your little personal snippets are quite frankly, pathetic and your definition of success is one of a simpleton, no imagination whatsoever…

  175. Rollercoaster designer? Human Cannonball? Fighter Pilot? World renowned Ice sculptor by day, international Cat burglar by night? Clueless cunt by day, wind-up prick by night? Yeah, that one…

  176. Perhaps if the players exercised some restraint (and the manager too for that matter) things might be better. Continually having a depleted squad reduced further by sendings off and suspensions only makes matters worse. I have often felt that Wenger does not exercise self-discipline and certainly does not encourage his players to control their tempers and behaviour,

  177. clap, clap, clap…

    if that’s your attempt at being funny, don’t quit your day job…

    you have one, I presume?

  178. and windup? naaah, this is not my objective, I just like exchanging opinions…

  179. Now thats funny Joka.

    One of the most absurd comment ever to be posted on this site, I am sure.

    pure nonsense!

  180. Paul N,

    certainly up there with your ‘best manager in the world football’ comment…

  181. Trying to ruin YWs site again, Alan Sugar 3? Off to snicker on the grave now?

  182. Pedantic Georgie
    Yes I do think therefore I am whereas you only think you think and therefore you only think you are.
    Is the maths too difficult for you. Let me help. Chelsea (1) + Man City (1) = 2. There are four, count them, 1,2,3,4 Champions league places. Now are you ready for the hard bit, 4 take away 2. Put up 4 fingers, ready, 1,2,3,4. Now lower 2, ready? 1,2. What you should have left if you have done it right (which I doubt) is 2. Try it again, thers a good boy.

  183. Wenger lacks self discipline!?!?!!!!!

    Do you know ANYTHING about the man at all?

  184. Wenger is the best manager in the world.

    Cant say the same as far as our supporters.

    No doubt that those who only pop up after a loss are amongst the worse, if they are supporters at all.

  185. AW is certainly the best manager in the world

  186. City earned NINE more points than they should last year? Who did they pay to get that? we should deffo invest in them instead of the team.

  187. Paul N suga is living his life on ACLF atm. hes been posting fo almost 24 hours non stop now. I think he really likes talking about how we need to strenghten and how wrong you are and how wrong everyone is that cannot understand that hes right.

    but as he says, each to their own and he will be man enough to admit he was wrong when we win 🙂

  188. Didn’t think we did too badly yesterday, and there was some good performances amongst our players. Frimpong, TV5, Schez all looked very good. Theo and AA were awful mind.

    I am sure that Frimpong will get a few more red cards due to his playing style, but I can live with that. He gives 100% and is committed to winning every ball he goes for.

    I do think that Arsene really must get a left back and a central defender. Our back 4 at the end of yesterdays game was a joke and a great example of the fact that the squad is too thin in defence. Nasri played well, and proved why we should still get him to sign a new contract.

  189. to pick up on Bill’s suggestion- in the US version of football the head coach can issue two challenges per game to an officials call, which results in a video review. If the challenge is overruled the challenging team loses a time out. If both challenges are upheld the team is awarded a third challenge. No challenges can by used in the final two minutes.
    Applied to a game as low scoring as football, and which has nothing comparable to a time out, a comparable rule might involve giving the manager one challenge per match that would lead to a review of the linesman’s call. If the linesman’s call is found to be correct, the result could be the loss of a substitution. Or if no substitutions remain, loss of a player. This would keep the challenge from being used in a frivolous manner. It would seem to me that this use of readily available technology would introduce little in the way of delay, but could reduce the number of matches decided by questionable offsides calls.

  190. @ goonzablazin
    Don’t you think loss of the challenge would be a sufficient penalty? You saw yesterday what the loss of a player can do to a side’s chance of victory. Even losing a substitution coudl be a very serious disadvantage, and all for what could be an honest but genuine mistake? Getting your challenge back if you are correct and losing it if you are wrong is enough to concentrate the officials’ mind on good decisions and discourage frivolous appeals from managers.

  191. Well if both Frimp and Song is out for man u we may get to see coquelin! hes suppose to be very exciting indeed. If he is as good as Frimp we have some really good midfielders going on in the club.

  192. @Fun did you read the article aman linked??? its from the Mirror. The analyze shows that if we the refs had done their job last season we would have ended as no 2 not no4 even with a horrid spell at the end.

  193. Poodle – Does the article also take into account the various decision that affect other teams? Because if not, then it is worthless.

  194. @ Poodle
    Yes, I did read it.

  195. Stewart Robson is up the ass of the Oil City chavs. Simply drooling over the spending of a sovereign nation on a football team.

  196. Well said Limestone,
    The most important thing right now is for fans to come together in support of the team. Thankfully this is happening already as we’ve seen in last 2 home games. I’m more confident that the support on wednesday will be positive as well. Shame it is an away game, as our away form in Europe hasn’t been great lately.

  197. It’s interesting that the team which benefitted the most from wrong calls last season should be the newly minted man c? Coincidence? I think not.

  198. Pas – Heh.

  199. Billyboy,
    Are you arguing now that a CL spot is a trophy?
    Because your dimwit mares strongly disagree.

  200. I know a lot of people don’t like conspiracies, but I’ve suspected corruption in the game for a long time. It has become more and more obvious over the last couple of seasons. I will not be one of those who is surprised when it comes out.

  201. If there is no corruption with the kind off money being spent then it will be a first.
    Never has big money not meant corruption,ever ,anywhere.

  202. Pas – You are being serious? I thought you were joking about.

    In which case, you may be over-paranoid.

  203. Passenal, it’s always the places where people refuse to even acknowledge the possibility of corruption that it festers and rots the most.

    I think the EPL, along with the FA are rotten to the core with corruption.

    FIFA are so blatantly corrupt it’s beyond a joke, and all the FAs continue to scoff at the trough, all corrupt and dishonest to a man.

  204. It could explain why they want our honest manager out

  205. Read a book called “Foul”.

    If 25% of that book is true, septic bladder and his pigs should be hauled out and strung up from the nearest tree.

    Funny how with all their threats against the author FIFA have never sued him for the claims made in the book.

    Here in SA we had all the same rubbish, “no, impossible, refs have such a hard job, you’re paranoid” etc etc etc

    The police decided enough was enough and 90, yes, that’s correct, NINETY referees were bust for corruption.

    And we look at the EPL and insist, despite the bizarre and blatantly dishonest performances that the are as pristine as the driven snow?

    Do me a favor, the fa and refs in England are as dishonest to a man as the century is long.

  206. So now not only do the media and referees have a conspiracy against Arsenal now the Premier League and the FA are in on it too. You guys come up with a lot fiction to cover the fact that Arsenal just haven’t been good enough to win and that refs are incompetent.

  207. And yes, the media scum are bought and paid for too.

    Wonder why there is a determined campaign against Arsenal players and our manager?

    Simple, there are more online Arsenal fans than any other club, generating hits, BUT, FIFA and uefa have a history of promising “transparency” but doing nothing to actually implement it.

    Look at the FFP, it’s one of those “promises” they never had any intention of keeping.

    They figured that all clubs would fail dismally to come close, and it would be yet another “brave” initiative that could be safely packed away in the attic, except that Arsenal are endangering that by being able to conform.

    What to do about it? Simple, destroy Arsenal.

  208. Lew, Arsenal and our manager are nowhere near perfect, but if you genuinely believe that despite all the evidence, and all the “poor” performances by referees, that the fa and refs are anything but corrupt, I have a bridge to sell you.

  209. I watched the Norwich vs Stoke game earlier.

    The ref did his level best to ensure Stoke werent beaten, it was so blatant it was absurd.

    I am watching Citeh vs bolt-on, funny how the pundits are castigating Davies for a cynical stamp on Aguero’s archilles that wouldn’t have warranted a mention if it had been on a “cheap” Arsenal player.

  210. Chill the Thrill

    Darius those posts were very good. thanks.

    Lol@ Ian Drake. “The best way to prepare for an early match at the emirates is to stop across the street, get a bacon roll, and read about what is being called the lowest point in arsenal’s history.”

  211. GA, I knew you would be the first to support the status quo, but I really cannot understand your defence of an obviously corrupt system. That match against barca last season and the rewarding of the corrupt official with his new position as head of referees. Who is head of referees over here, that’s right manure’s number 1 fan mike riley. At best the referees are incompetent, but if that is all it is, why hasn’t something been done about it? The referee in our game last week made a basic error when he failed to award a penalty and send off Barton for an assault while the ball was in play. What punishment has he received?

  212. @gonnerandy go read it 🙂 its in the mirror…

  213. well think about it, if you are a ref and someone offers you alot of money to do you a favour and you know its seen among those with power as “a part of the game” you would be preatty dumb to refuse.

  214. The league is certainly rich enough. Corruption has been proven in Germany, Italy, France, I think Belgium as well. What is there about England that means it couldn’t happen here?

  215. who is Nick HArris anyway? i never seen him write about football before.

  216. MikeSA

    I don’t need a bridge thanks, I don’t live in a world of paranoid delusions where the media, FA, referees and the reverse vampires are manipulating events single handily against Arsenal for there own nefarious purposes. I simply believe what my eyes have shown me that Arsenal haven’t been good enough. Maybe they have gotten to me too.

  217. @ poodle
    He’s probably a non-football journalist.

  218. aha i found his page… interesting front page…

  219. poodle, you cannot expect 100% accuracy and to blame our final position on ref decisions alone completely ignores our end of season collapse, which all at the club say was a mental issue stemming from the loss in the cup final.

    Sure incompetent refs will cost you points but they cost everyone points. We need to stop looking for excuses and actually make better efforts at addressing the issues within our control.

  220. I enjoyed the support at the stadium in both games this week.
    ‘Gutted’ that what with ten players finishing both games that we haven’t seen AOC or Ryo yet.
    Two classic football stories behind those two players, that in face of the banality of top flight footy are enough to remind us of why we love The Arse and continue to support.
    The club bit the corporate bullet when they built the new stadium, but the results are not b/w. All die-hard fans I have asked love their new stadium. The things that need to be improved upon were, quite simply, not cast in concrete.

  221. I think most Arsenal fans are sane enough to be able to distinguish what the line between critique and hatred/petty jingoisim is.

    Fuck the disingenious liars and the self lacerating gloomers.
    Fuck ’em all:

    ‘We stand behind the man who has brought us numerous trophies including two doubles and the Invincible season and who has brought us incredible players such as Thierry Henry, Patrick Vieria, Cesc Fabregas, Robert Pires, Robin Van Persie, Marc Overmars, Thomas Vermaelen, Freddie Ljungberg etc.

    We understand that we haven’t had a large amount of money to spend during the period of moving into our new stadium and we are proud of how the club has managed to compete at the top level in a fair way, despite the fact that we are competing against clubs unfairly funded by oil rich sugar daddies, who behave in ways that will soon be deemed illegal by the new financial fair play rules.

    We are fed up with the constant criticism within the media and some ‘supporters’ of someone who has guided Arsenal to 13 years straight Champions League football while working with a budget smaller than that of many mid table clubs and who has on numerous occasions been offered far easier and perhaps more glamorous jobs by many of the biggest clubs in Europe. We condemn these often vicious and personal attacks and applaud Arsene Wenger for showing great dignity in the way he is handling much unfair criticism and continuing to do his job and fight for Arsenal.

    We stand behind the man who has revolutionised not only our great club, but also English football in general with his training techniques and general approach to football, and who has also produced teams that have played some of the best and most enjoyable football in the history of the game. We firmly believe that this man deserves more respect than he is getting and that football in general in this Country owes him a great deal. Perhaps no one other individual has contributed more to the advancement of English football during the last 20 years. ‘

  222. desi, you can if the gap is 9 points in the wrong direction. That is an awfully lot of points. Or do you disagree?

  223. Lew, it’s not about whether Arsenal are good enough, it’s about corruption.

    It’s not an either or issue.

    Time and time again corruption has been exposed where people have claimed it was “impossible”, people were “paranoid” etc etc.

    If you don’t want a bridge, I have these millions in a bank in central Africa that I need an honest and trustworthy person to assist me with transferring. Would you be interested? 🙂

  224. @ Deisegooner
    The article doesn’t ignore our end of season collapse. And the point of the article is that the officiating *did not* cost everyone points. Man City gained nine points.

  225. Not sure about the above mention of FFP.
    But I don’t think I’d be able to retain much genuine interest in following a ‘football’ club that is acting as a wealth fund for a conglomarate of governments and large energy companies,
    e.g. Gazprom St.Petersburg, or Gazprom-upon-Chel$ea, etc.

  226. + Jenkinson to the prospects of Ryo and AOC above @ 5:50

  227. since July- we’ve been looking for super quality thats better than what we have presently.

    what a bunch of nitwits.

  228. Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning. – Bill Gates

  229. @fungunner – but what about the previous season and the seasons before? Does it always point in favour of a few particular teams? Maybe its the media golden boys of the time that get the decisions? Maybe its the powerful clubs that get the decisions? Maybe we got our fair share when we were on the back pages for sweeping all around us and were creamed over for our brand of winning football?

    I dont doubt ref incompetence but i also see them bowing to media spotlight pressure. Whether thats corruption or not or just human nature …….??

  230. That sucks desi if its true… The board should know by now that wenger knows…

  231. spend some foooking money.

  232. Its quite an interesting read isnt it poodle? Whether i believe all of it is another matter. But i do get the feeling that there is something going on with the management. Like i have been saying our summer has been mishandled bigtime and something doesnt feel right. Things have been said but the opposite has been done in some cases.

  233. If Andrei ‘s goal against Sunderland had stood or the most obvious of any non penalty I have ever seen had been given not only is it 2 more point but we would have been back on track,Our spirits lifted and the gloom of the CC behind us.But no,the result was a home draw and deeper depression set in.
    It was the straw that broke the Camel’s errr spirit ,if not back.

  234. Well it came out already when Cesc was sanctioned to leave that there were “disagreemets” within the walls.

    Its a shame Wenger is such a “company” man. He gets all the blame for this. Everyone thinks he is the one that sits on the money and decide what salarys etc players should have.
    If this is true then a new manager wont change a thing. he wont get bigger budgets or be allowed to pay more in salary. He will run in to the exact same problems as wenger.

  235. and as you say Desi, we been so clos to soo many big signings this summer for just to stop dead 1inc before we bagg them. Something has not been right.

    And expecting that a 30m player will take a 15m players salary is stupid.Even I who agree to be cautios with moneny understand that. that is not rocketscience.

  236. apparently, it is Gazidis who strived to narrow down the salary gaps, which would make him even more clueless than I thought…

  237. Sorry to butt in but has anyone seen this
    from Arsenal Times.
    I have never read anything by these guys before. Does anyone know how reliable they are?
    It does put an interesting complexion on current issues but are they just an usmanov front?

    Really enjoyed the game until Frimpong got sent off – all the kids were great. Ramsey did not have his best game (3 games in a week taking its toll??)

  238. Thanks for bringing the petition to my attention Finsbury.

  239. MikeSA

    Ya but explain to me how this mythical “corruption” stops Arsenal from winning? Or is it just something desperate fans are coming up because the team hasn’t been good enough and they just can’t accept that?

    And that west African money seems like something that more fits with gullible people who think that the Media, refs and the FA are conspiring together to destroy Arsenal.

  240. Paul,

    I do look at the positves, only the other day i was saying how impressive our defence looks. Wenger still produces the best signings by a mile over any other manager. but i also like to look at the negatives, depends what side of the bed my wife wakes up from!!!

  241. Did Bob Wilson not say the manager was close to taking that RM job at one point during the boardroom wars. No much doubt about it, the board at RM must wish that he’d taken their offer.

    SUPPORT the manager.
    He supports the club, after all. Where some have not.
    Plenty of evidence for that. Not much doubt unless you are deluded and vain, self-declared ‘realist’ who needs to troll internet forums (see above).

  242. go look up the links further up the page lew. its not hard 🙂

  243. @ DeiseGooner | August 21, 2o011 at 6:03 pm
    but what about the previous season and the seasons before? Does it always point in favour of a few particular teams?
    No idea. Just seems like a bit of a coincidence that a club whose owners have money to burn should be effectively gifted nine points by officiating errors. Seems like a lot. For comparison, the article says we lost overall to the tune of three points.

    About the article you posted…
    @ poodle | August 21, 2011 at 6:03 pm
    Agree with that.

    It might be an explanation what AW said about losing Cesc and Nasri in the press conferences, though. The board getting involved too much in the choice of players is not a good thing.

    One thing that doesn’t quite ring true is the bit about AW “warning” the board not to sack him – he has made them so much money in the form of increasing their share price, that they would be killing the golden goose. You’d have thought SK would know which side his bread is buttered. And paying players more, as long as it was within the budget available (which is presumably what AW would want) would not affect the share price adversely, would it? All the profit stays within the companies and goes on playing staff anyway, doesn’t it? Unless of course they are preparing to announce dividend payments?

    Anyone know, does SK have a history of interference in the player purchases and sales with his other sports clubs?

  244. You lot are sharp.
    It is a wonder though that none of the papers (with all those wonderful sports writers 🙂 ) have not been saying something like this

  245. its not just Arsenal though, if things had been done correct Blackpool would not have been relegated.

  246. the opposite could also be true and its Wenger stalling as he doesnt feel the players are worth the fees / wages

    how often have we heard the money IS in place for significant transfer purchases but see a seeming reluctance to spend?

    as self defeating as that may seem im just putting that out there ….

  247. Thanks, finsbury – I’ve signed!

  248. Diaminedave, I don’t know how much truth there is in that post, but AT is one of the more negative and moany sites, so who knows whether it has come from an usmanov friendly source. However, it does fit with Arsene’s contention that he has always fought to get better deals for the players. He is the public face of Arsenal and takes all the flak, but he is not the only player in this game.

  249. Chill the Thrill

    You know, when Andy Carroll kicks the ball into our net 4 seconds after the offside whistle, it’s a questionable yellow card.

  250. Well i expect that article will ignite the fans even more, it will go as fire through dry grass. Everyone and his uncle will know about it by next week.
    People are so frustrted and angry and bewildered over the clubs behaviour in the market this summer.
    AW good/ AW bad is something that i guess always will be debated.

    But stingy board that dont wanna invest even when stingy arsene asks them to and tell them to up the salarys of our players because he knows they will go if we dont. Well they are easy to vent anger on. If that is our bottleneck we got a huge problem.

    Tbh for me that article explains alot. But then again, i do like Wenger.

  251. Thanks for the link Finsbury

  252. Lew, who said it only stops Arsenal winning?

    Some might believe that it affects us, but putting that aside, are you seriously telling me that you think that with all Teheran money involved, that with corruption coming out the woodwork all over the planet, with the parent body so corrupt many deem it to be beyond redemption, that the gleaming little English FA are honest and pure?

    Please, they’re as corrupt as any other sporting body where bucke loads of money is involved.

    In SA it was amazing how the decisions in football matches suddenly became so much better after the corruption was bust.

    Your attempt to link the corruption as a definitive either/or to Arsenal’s results shows how blinkered you are to the possibility,which is exactly where corruption thrives, because too many people like you refuse to entertain the possibility.

  253. tbh Desi i think Wenger would gladly pay Cesc 200k a week if he could to keep him. He knows we just sold the absolut best player in his position to ever have played in England for less than his value.
    Wonder what Jones got up on Manchester. must be bucketloads….

  254. I agree that Cahill and jagielka are not better then Kozzer.

  255. Not too sure how “Teheran” got into my earlier post, Apple have a habit of putting in some really strange “corrections” at times.

  256. @ DeiseGooner | August 21, 2011 at 6:23 pm
    It’s hard to know what to think of that article. It reads very plausibly, but it could well also be a cunning tissue of lies!
    I do think it is likely that AW wants to pay his top, top players more than the board want. But I find it hard to believe that Wenger would deliberately be part of a game of brinkmanship where the club’s welfare was concerned. And he has said before that his job is to work with whatever money is available.
    And IG would have to be one hell of an actor, as well!

  257. @ dukey | August 21, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    “I agree that Cahill and jagielka are not better then Kozzer.”

    Or Djourou, wouldn’t you say?

  258. Passenal, Thanks for that. Makes it even more interesting in a way.
    I am biased in that I think Wenger is a genius at getting the best out of whoever is playing for him.
    The tone of the article fits with my mental picture of Wenger and that is he is an extremly intelligent, generally honourable (even he will have to do the dirty on someone at sometime) person.
    And to my mind that impies he knowws the score and what his players are worth wage wise in the current market and would do his best to make sure they obtain that under his managership – not the best paid maybe but as near as matters with the knowledge that youu would be playing the best football with good chances of winniing trophies (I know, I know)

  259. Chill, it’s not questionable. If RVP could get booked for kicking the ball within 1 second of a whistle he could not hear in the cauldron of noise that was the nou camp last season. As good as the crowd was on Saturday we were not that noisy, so kicking the ball into the net twice, several seconds after the whistle should have seen at least 2 luckypool players booked by the letter of the law. Funny how the letter of the law is interpreted differently when it suits. Carroll should have been booked for diving as he spent more time on the floor when he wasn’t jumping for headers. Just as well since he is unable to actually play football.

  260. Look we all know Wenger has been spouting ‘self sustainability’ rhetoric along with the CEO. Most would agree we have money to spend, the board says so, Ivan says so, Wenger says so. So why hasnt it been spent? Surely Cesc going frees up his wages (surely the highest at the club) for a replacement? Who at the club isnt willing to pay? Does it break with sustainability or is it someone being too frugal?

  261. @ Chill the Thrill | August 21, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    “You know, when Andy Carroll kicks the ball into our net 4 seconds after the offside whistle, it’s a questionable yellow card.”

    Absolutely – and when RvP does if 0.5 seconds after the whistle in a stadium full of 95,000 whistling Barfa fans, it’s a nailed on yellow.

  262. Chill the Thrill

    So i’m at the 40th minute in the game. Question: How many crosses are Milverdrool going to hit into our box before they realize Sandy Carol ain’t gunna win any headers. Steve McManaman said it right. “it’s like Vermalean has a little radar on his forehead!!”

  263. I must say though even if 150k is the “going rate” for a top top top player atm, its disgusting. Its disgusting and its wrong.

    But if you are Nasri, Jones or Mata and have to choose between a 90k a week contract and a 160k a week contract. you are bloody stupid if you choose the 90k a week contract. Even if it means you have to sit on the bench and rot. Its disgusting and its wrong 🙂

  264. I’ve just seen the most hilarious headline on newsnow, suggesting that Arsenal may be in for a relegation battle this season! Even the most rudimentary research would show that the team on Saturday was not our first XI by a long way. Half our team is not going to be injured or suspended for the rest of the season. We will get our attacking mojo back once we get a chance to gel after the loss of a key creative influence.

  265. Point is if we want to keep competing we have to keep up with the joneses, its horrible but we are over a barrell. Wenger knew this. this article is exactly how i imagined it coz there is no way Wenger would be standing by losing players and failing with all these bids. moreover we know Wenger will not buy any old player who isnt better then what he has for the sake of it.

  266. Pasenal so where do u think we will finish?

    Will we be In CL this season and next season?

  267. @ DeiseGooner | August 21, 2011 at 6:43 pm
    I still think it could be the value-for-money/quality problem. In his pre-Liverpool conference, AW got exasperated when asked why he hadn’t bought a CB and came as near as he could to saying that top quality just wasn’t available in the PL. He only pulled up when the journalist asked him if he thought that about Jagielka etc, and even then he only said he wouldn’t speak about them specifically. In support of his view, rated Jagielka as easily the best out of Cahill Samba and Jagielka, and Jagielka was rated as clearly behind our three top CBs. And let’s face it, ManUre didn’t go for him, even though he is experienced – they went for the same guy we did at the same price that PJ supposedly would cost. so maybe that tells us something as well.

    I’m pretty sure self-sustainability is not just rhetoric to AW. His issue with Chelski and Money City’s spending is not the amount, it’s that it is not self-generated. He did coin the phrase “financial doping”, didn’t he?

    @ poodle | August 21, 2011 at 6:48 pm
    Tell me about it!

  268. It isn’t only about the purse strings. Wenger has lost the locker room. This menas the players don’t respect him. Spending bucks however may not translate into success on the pitch. The players don’t respect him. When this happens the club is in the shits. It is time for Wenger to go. Bring in a new manager and this is start to getting our ship right. Harsh words but true.

  269. Dukey we cant compete with Citeh or Chelski our owner doesnt have
    thaT kind of money, so fourth is the most we can aim for and do that
    we have to do better than Pool or Spuds

  270. Where is the evidence for your assertion geeman?

  271. I doubt he has lost the dressing room.

  272. Sol, so 4th must be a good season then???

  273. Kos has still got a long way to go,

  274. Dukey Yes it would

  275. The article in Arsenal times is interesting but imo rather dubious. I’m always suspicious about unnamed sources.
    When we read “the board” these days we should read “Stan Kronke”. His record with his other franchises would seem to point to someone with a policy of sustained growth through success rather than short term profit. Also, if there is a budget available, what difference does it make to Stan how it is spent?. The article doesn’t say the board wants to cut the budget, rather limit players wages. And it would be so easy for AW to state that he has difficulty bringing players in due to Arsenal’s wage structure. Everyone knows we have one so this would not been seen as being disloyal.
    Maybe the board are restricting AW, but I can’t help feeling the source could be someone close to Usmanov

  276. Chill the Thrill

    SolGooner- Lies I say, Lies!!!!

    ” so fourth is the most we can aim”

    Great attitude Mr. SmallGooner

  277. I suppose the question to ask about the Arsenal Times article is why the leak would come through that particular website – as opposed to say PHW’s Daily Star, or Arseblog, or Piles the Farmer, or Robert Peston or the Hindustan Times.

    What it makes more clear is that we’re in a propaganda war and it rarely matters what the truth is. The person who can communicate better wins. The board clearly are not doing a good job in communicating as well as they can.

    I’m sure the story will be part of a head of steam of “Arsenal to go into administration” stories just before the Udinese game on Wednesday. I mean, if you believe some of the faecal matter out there, we’re already in a relegation dog fight. It’s not even pathetic anymore, just a bit amusing.

    All the more reason why no one should doubt the impact Wenger has had to keep Arsenal competitive during a very difficult and challenging time for the club. The financial doping hasn’t helped, and it’s credit to Wenger that we are where we are.

  278. So Valencia announces Chelsea has bought Mata? thas such a shame we did not manage to nab him.

  279. He’s a good player, but Spanish players are not the most reliable as they seem to suffer from home sickness the most. Let’s hope he turns out to be a Reyes type!

  280. well the board and Wenger need to come up with something in the next 10 days thats for sure.

  281. Chill the Thrill

    Very true your dukeness. It’s great to see our team play with such a young squad, but surely they will not be able to mount a sustainable challenge. Especially with the injury bug hitting as it is right now. “Please, spend some money on a goodplaya!”

  282. i suppose we have to assume Chelsea came in and blew us away and not that we were to slow to make the bid or the board didn’t want to pay up.

  283. my opinion is that Chelsea were nowhere to be seen and we had alot of time to get him before they showed an interest but its done now so lets forget about it and agree hopefully he can turn out to be flop.

  284. Mata an excellent signing.Two weeks after we could have bought him for £17m.Sometimes you wonder what Gazidis does at the club.Does he count the money for Kroenke?

  285. “U should be ashamed to call urself an arsenal fan all u do is moan about ur team y don’t u do ur job and i will do mine waste”

    Emmanuel F4 to Piers Morgan on Twitter – he could be speaking to some of the doomers on here!

    “easy piers he was one of our best players till then! He wanted to show his spirit and mistimed a tackle! Still a great player!”

    JW to the same loser on Twitter

  286. apparently Mata was expecting to come to us but we “stood him up” tut tut..

  287. well if that article earlier about how we should spend our transfer monies is to be believed then we probobly didnt offer him the wages chelski are…

  288. i think most certaily Chelsea came and blew us away. Only city and psg can really compete with them…

  289. @ DeiseGooner | August 21, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    “well if that article earlier about how we should spend our transfer monies is to be believed then we probobly didnt offer him the wages chelski are…”

    Surely you didn;t need that article to tell you we don’t offer the level of wages that Chelski, Man City or Man United do?

  290. @ Passenal
    He could have come up with several more examples of double standards in officiating in that one game alone!

  291. FunGunner | August 21, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    They probably did FG, since they never believe it when Arsene says it – after all, is Pravda and nothing they say is to be believed, but some anonymous blogger without a source tells them something and they are lapping it up.

  292. what i mean fungunner is this is probobly how it played out if the article is to be believed.

    we gfreed the fee with Valencia
    wenger spoke with the player
    player willing to join
    ceo spoke with the player about wages etc
    ceo/board/owner wouldnt pay the wages even though Wenger thought him worth the payments
    deal collapses

    chelski wasnt on his case then…but are now

  293. Alternatively, Arsenal made an offer to the club, club turned it down, Arsenal not able to raise bid/didn’t think player worth more, end of story

    or Arsenal make bid, club willing to accept, wages/no guarantee of CL football not to players liking

    There are any number of scenarios so without being privvy to the the details, we can only speculate as to the sequence of events regardless of that post on AT

  294. What’s this nonsense about Mata? Mata is nowhere near a £30m player on this planet or any other planet. At £30m I’d expect him to be able to perform at the level of Cesc or at least Wilshere, but he’s nowhere near that level. Not yet, anyway. So why are you guys lamenting the loss of a player who wouldn’t do anything to improve our side this season? Don’t shit on Wenger just because he wouldn’t drop that amount of cash on a gamble. Leave that to the Sugar Daddies. I mean, look at, David Luiz, for example. Is he better than Vermaelen? Absolutely not. He cost half what David Luiz cost Chelsea which is basically peanuts in these crazy times football is living in. Just quit it with the bullshit about Wenger and Gazidis being poor in the transfer market. What’s poor is shelling £30m for Mata and £35m for Carroll. That’s a horrific transfer market by anyone’s definition. Seriously, upwards of thirty million pounds sterling for youth team players? That’s fucking madness.

    With regards to Gibbs, how is injuring a muscle in the beginning of the season make a player injury prone? Having thigh strains and little niggles is a common occurence at the beginning of the season. Furthermore, Gibbs may be ready to play against United so it doesn’t seem like his injury is serious at all.

  295. I reckon that is exactly how it played out DeiseGooner, Chelsea were not even interested till we pulled out. we were only bidding with the spuds up until then and they were a non starter.

  296. Passenal the player was willing to come to us so rule the second one out, he wasnt commanding high wages so it must have been our bid..squeek squeek.

  297. Jabba's Delights

    I think it is arsene who is in charge of our wage structure he is however told by the board a wage level as a percentage of turnover that they deem acceptable. We currently sit at roughly 46-50% (including sales this year) on our wages which is only bettered by Utd. Our ability to pay more elite players higher wages than we currently do would come about if we paid our younger squad players and youth team players less. It is his choice to have a very very equal wage structure at the club.

  298. i would pay anything to know what is going on in Arsene Wenger’s mind right now.

    i love this team and also the manager but sometimes i wish he would show he’s hand to the supporters more often. All this keeping his hand close to his heart thing is not working in a situation that needs clarity.

    Wenger’s habit of not saying much or repeating the same things is backfiring on him. If he wants to connect to the fans more, rather than telling them to trust him utterly, he needs to clarify the situation at the club rather than keeping the supporters in the dark. It just makes the situation even worse.

    I understand the need for quite because it would be disruptive to the player and team not to mention that it would raise the price dramaticly but Wenger is losing support fast. It does not matter if you consider yourself a true supporters and scorn all others who question wenger, the fact of the matter is alot of supporters fickle or not (they do pay towards match tickets and some come to matches) are rapidly becoming annoyed at either wenger or the board.

    Wenger’s rosy outlook is baffling to many, but the it’s because he doesn’t tell the reason why that is soo maddening. And this is why he is losing support because he expects blind faith on him.

    He is asking supporters to blindly follow a road that he does not even lighten abit, and blind faith is bordering on ignorance. And i hope you don’t consider yourself ignorant.

  299. Dukey.
    I am interested in what makes you want to think that was how it played out.
    Why is that the scenario you choose to believe?
    Basically you are saying you WANT to believe we as a club are incompetent.
    Why do you want to think that way?

  300. george the board lead me up that path mate.

  301. Jabba's Delights


    I know your a long way away but your lack of knowledge on some some european players is quite frankly staggering.

    ”At £30m I’d expect him to be able to perform at the level of Cesc or at least Wilshere, but he’s nowhere near that level.”

    The guy has been performing to a walcott level last year for 4 seasons and is the same age. He was deemed good enough to be included in the Spanish world cup winning squad and yet not good enough to have an impact on a thread bare arsenal squad.

    i will tell you what ”not value for money is”. 15m on a 17 year old who has 1 cap for england u21 and 40 odd games for a league 1 side. 30m for a world cup winner with 4 years experience of being a lethal attacker in one of the biggest leagues in the world at 30m is cheap compared to our businesses for AOC. Market prices have moved on……you can either get with the program or get left behind. We have a ton of money and glaring needs………our manager and the board need to go and do their jobs. Chepaer to spend some money now than it is to drop out of the cl. RVP, TV5, Walcott all go no next year if we don’t improve the team significantly and make cl this year

  302. @ dukey and Deisegooner
    Or Chelsea could have gazumped us. Any number of scenarios. If the player is going to Chelsea, that suggests he wasn’t fussed as long as he could be in the PL, and that’s before we even get to the higher wages. And we need players who want to come to us as much as Cesc wanted to go to Barfa.

    You’re displaying the trait which makes people spend thousands of pounds over their lifetime on Lottery tickets in the hope of scooping the 14 million to one chance jackpot – fear of missing out.

    Why “squeak squeak”? What does that mean?

    @ dukey
    I agree with George – you say the board lead you that way, but you have chosen to reject alternative, equally plausible explanations in favour of the one which reflects badly on the board. You think they are idiots so you believe any scenario which paints them as idiots, and use that as further “evidence” that they are idiots. It’s mad.

  303. Jabba.
    You think it is Arsene,However that is all you have ,a thought.Not a shred of evidence.None,nada, zilch

    It might be ,but I doubt he has that much control over wages.Why would he?

  304. pedantic george

    quite the calming voice aren’t you, short, constructive and usually devoid of insult or belittling of others

    wish more were like you

  305. Jabba's Delights


    As he has exercised a degree of control over the club that is un paralleled in english football. When he gained a huge amount of the credit when we were winning this was noted so why should it not be the case just because things aren’t going well now?

    We have had our wage structure in place before the current board were in place. it is Wenger who has come out and used the galactico structure and said it creates divisions in the squad. Do you think it is the board or Arsene who decides that we can be the Man City of the market for youth players.

    i think its a lot more plausible to think that Wenger is in control of our wage structure but is told to keep our wages under a certain percentage of turnover. Within that 110m who gets paid what doesn’t matter as long as we don’t breach that pre determined threshold.

  306. Wages and transfer fees are all part of the same fund. When A player is bought it is the total cost over his contract period that is considered, ie transfer fee plus however many years wages.
    If AW has a budget to spend, rather than acting as a coach who recommends players to the board, as we are led to believe (he has stated he has more independence at Arsenal than he would get elsewhere) then he will have a considerable say over wages of all the players at the club,, within an overall club policy. We don’t know how flexible club policy is of course.

  307. Jabba
    So as I said “you think “That is all you have.
    You have just agreed with me then ? Right?

    Moe 🙂 thank you but “usually devoid of insult or belittling of others” might not be the most accurate description of me you could have come up with

  308. Moe ,did we have a chat the other night?

  309. ok no slagging the board but these are the tacts about the mata deal. Chelsea never out bid us or blew us out the water as they were never in for him untill our deal collapsed, he wanted to come to us and was not commanding big wages, so that means the only possible course of event was that we didnt meet Valencias asking price. we obviously didnt think he was worth the fee…which was rumoured to be 20m euros. which to be fair is a big ask for our board with the reyes deal in their minds but….this is a classy highly regarded player and we are in the fukin shit we have a lot of money from selling players so we should really be in a position to aquire this player. unless the board pull another top player out their top ats and shut moaning gits like me up.

  310. moe obviously has missed most of your posts then george!!!

  311. Dukey,Seriously how do you know this ?

    “Chelsea never out bid us or blew us out the water as they were never in for him untill our deal collapsed,”

    And yes ,that is what I thought.However you have had none in you direction of late,eh? 🙂

  312. george, i have decide to take me anger out on the board, everything is their fault, others blame Wenger some blame refs, alot blame the players,,we are all laying blame in some direction….im sure others and alot should be switched!!!!!

  313. pedantic george

    i have no idea what u mean 🙂


    from what i’ve seen anyway

    There is alot of intelligent posturing on this website, people constantly try to sound intelligent by using big words or complicated to give their comments credebility. While there is nothing wrong with this, it DOES NOT diminsh someone else’s opninion just because they don’t know how to express their thoughts well enough.

    People should stop frowning on people like that, it just goes to show their insecurity or their arrogance because they think they are better.

    however that stil doesn’t give you a right to rant and rave like a deranged rabid madman frothing at the mouth. Makes us Arsenal supporters come down to spuds level 🙂

  314. because they werent george and you know it.

  315. How i would love to be the watch on Arsene Wenger’s wrist right about now, then i could listen and finally understand what the hell is going on at Arsenal football club.

  316. @ dukey
    No facts there, all conjecture, except for – we put in a bid for him, he is going to Chelsea. That’s it. And some of it doesn’t even make sense – the question of his wages wouldn’t come up until Valencia had agreed a fee anyway.

    It’s difficult when a process, the consequences of which feel so important to you, is going on and you have no control over it, but you just have to accept that that is how it is. Nothing you can do. And come 1st Sep, what will you be doing? Cheering on the team, regardless of who’s in it. I’m as anxious as anyone, but I know that I have no choice other than to trust AW to do his job. I’ll do mine which is supporting.

    Anyway, good night, all.

  317. But Duke, that’s the thing mate ,I don’t know it.
    And further ,I dont think it.

    And this is aimed at you I believe”that stil doesn’t give you a right to rant and rave like a deranged rabid madman frothing at the mouth”
    That is funny.Serves you right for calling me a “snappy little dog” 😉

  318. fun…true.

  319. ha ha. yep i better go wipe my mouth now.

  320. alright goodnight all and dream of the glory days

    lights out people

  321. is ping pong suspended for 1 game since it wasnt a straight red? or 3?

  322. It was 2 yellows mate .So 1 game only

  323. Arsenal listed a squad of 28 in the program yesterday which did not include Lansbury and Miguel

    Almunia, Nasri, Vela, Mannone, Bendtner are on loan or looking to move

    Diaby, Rosicky, Koscielny, Gibbs, Traore, Vermaelen, Van Persie are injury prone

    Squillaci, Walcott, Chamakh, Ramsey and Arshavin are struggling for form

    Oxlade-Chamberlain, Jenkinson, Frimpong, Ryo Miyaichi, Lansbury, Miguel have 5 1st team games between them

    Gervinho has yet to play 90 mins of premiership football

    That leaves a rump of Sagna, Szczesny, Song, Wilshere, Fabianski as the only players with reliable premiership experiance

    I cannot believe this is not obvious to Wenger and the problem must lie with the board and the budgets being set

  324. thought so, thanks.

    interesting couple of weeks ahead for the arse. to me, the spirit and attitude shown by the boys against ‘pool meant more than any signing could!

    onwards and upwards

  325. Nearly every footballer in the world has been injured at one time or another. The best way to retain form is by playing games. The only way to gain experience is by playing games.

    The team showed great spirit yesterday, especially the young uns, of that, there is no doubt. In addition, there were some great performances. The transfer window remains open so there is time for re-investment.

    No need to panic just yet.

  326. Things looking good. Wilshere and Djourou will be available for Wednesday. We will have a strong team and I feel confident we will get the result needed. Surely we are more than capable of getting at least a goal. If we do udinese need 3 goals.

  327. Excellent breakdown vibv @10:13 dude, cudnt say it better my self

  328. California Gooner

    vivb, I tend to agree. I wonder why Wenger gets so much flack when it seems like the Board’s responsibility to negotiate deals. On the outgoing side, the Cesc deal dragged on and on, apparently any deal for Nasri has as well, both leaving it to late to rebuild the team. On the other hand, there seems to be be no one around capable of simply going out and getting the players the boss needs.

  329. I wonder if some of the PL players that we are linked with would make us that much better?

    If PL experience is the thing then why do most Arsenal supporters bring up so many names of players from other leagues.

    All of those players are not injury prone. If TV is injury prone then Ramsey is. Cesc had way more injuries than them but yes\t he was never referred to as being “injury prone”.

    Players that are not in form must work themselves in form. If they are good they will come around, you cannot buy and replace all the time.

  330. Cali Gooner, if these deals dont drag we sell for much less than the players are worth and then the board and Wenger get dogged again.
    The Cesc deal went for long because Barca’s offer was a joke.

  331. Check this out. This could explain our transfer inactivity.

  332. Paul-N/vivb,

    I also fail to see how Koscielny, Traore, and Vermaelen are injury prone, especially the first two. I’ll grant that there must be question marks around Verm’s fitness because of that long term injury he had, but injury prone wouldn’t be the phrase to describe his situation compared to the likes of Gibbs, Diaby and RvP (pre-2011).

  333. Henristic – it seems to me that some folks want a brand new shiny team who are brought in with a 4 year guarantee with an option to return if not fit.

    It’s really unfortunate that our season has started with the injuries and suspensions, but the spirit shown by whoever has played so far has been very encouraging. I’m looking forward to the new face(s) that come in and for those coming back to settle down and we can then get on with the business of doing football.

    What is increasingly obvious is that the column filler of “Ces to Barca” that has been running for the last 3 years has been beaten to death. It’s now time for “Wenger has lost the plot and has to go”.

  334. Just Another Luke

    It really makes me mad that Mancini is a in a position to threaten that if Nasri plays on Wed, then the deal to buy Nasri is off. Whether we succumb to this or to the reality that Nasri may be unprofessional against Undinese by not playing to his ability/capability, it does look like Nasri will not play.

  335. “it seems to me that some folks want a brand new shiny team who are brought in with a 4 year guarantee with an option to return if not fit.”

    Ha ha, so true.

    Re the media b/s; We can be thankful that fans attending games clearly aren’t swayed. Look at how the support have been in the last two home games, to the chagrin of some people I imagine (it would have been a better ‘story’ if we heard boos instead)

    Besides, how can anyone not support this team? See how despite their age they all play their hearts out. Any sensible fan will respond positively to that. If we’re able to add good quality to the squad before the window closes, the positive feeling will extend to the management as well.

  336. If Kos is injured for Udinese, my pic for CB is Alex Song, with Frimps in midfield along with Wilshere & Ramsey. Arshavin, Gervinho & Theo up front. Robin to start from the bench as we need him against Manure.

  337. mj_gunner says:
    August 22, 2011 at 8:12 am
    If Kos is injured for Udinese, my pic for CB is
    Alex Song, with Frimps in midfield along
    with Wilshere & Ramsey. Arshavin, Gervinho
    & Theo up front. Robin to start from the
    bench as we need him against Manure.

    I don’t think Song should play CB, I am more than comfortable with Miquel. I prefer a midfield trio of Song, Frimmers and Rosicky. Three games in a week is taking it’s toll on Ramsey.

    I honestly hope the senior players can step up. Arshavin, Theo and RVP.

  338. Good call mj,

    I’d go with that, except I’ll play Rosicky for Ramsey if the former is fit. I worry a bit that Ramsey has been playing too many games. One could have considered Lansbury, but he hasn’t impressed yet in the few chances he’s had.

  339. On Wed I would go with:


    Traore (weeps)

    Rosicky (if fit)


    I actually struggled to decide who to poay at left back and in midfield, which is a bit sad at this point in the season. Our squad is a bit too thin on the ground. It is not if you count puerly by numbers, so many of those spend much of their time injured which leaves us relying on inexpeience from the bench.

    Wenger has said he will bring in new players, lets hope he does so by the Manure game on Sat.

  340. Yeah, Rosicky will start most likely, instead of Aaron.

  341. If Wilshere is back our midfield picks itself, if not the boss will have to pick between Ramsey and Frimpong. Ramsey has not been that great so far, but has more expreience so he might get the nod.

    I suppose the option could be to play Nasri centrally, and bring Walcott or AA back into the side. But they were both abject at the weekend and don’t derseve a starting berth.

  342. Am I the only one in thinking that this system is crying for a change? I mean a 4-2-3-1 without a real creator (Re: Cesc) doesn’t look convincing. For me, its time to move to 4-4-1-1.
    RVP behind Gerv/ Chamakh. Arshavin to fill in when the captain is out injured.

  343. MJ – I agree. I have been thinking about that for a while. Last year when Cesc was not availabe we played the same system, but it didn’t really work. We could persist if Nasri stayed I suppose.

    I like the idea of the Xmas tree formation. I think it would suit the players we have. Or even a 4312 formation. Not much width I know, but we don’t play with much width now anyway. Our full backs could still go forward to stretch the opposition team defensively.

  344. Well done Arsenal and Wenger. One never worries too much about a loss from truly rottenest luck, and Arsenal was thick with that, just like one doesn’t praise too much a outrageously lucky win. I thought Liverpool did pretty well under their own circumstances, and their expensively assembled, tactically astute and well drilled (mid-defence especially) team could just about contain and maintain parity with an Arsenal side with a makeshift defence and a debut for a young CB and a debutant midfielder (Frimpong), with 5 probable first team starters out or injured (Song, Wilshere, Rosicky, 3Gs and then Kos/Djourou).

    Jenks, Frimpong and Miquel were, while not MOTM, the most exciting players in the pitch for me. Confident, skilled and convincing.

    Accolades are especially worthy for Miquel, an understated but largely faultless performance that showed a really exciting prospect for this season. And Frimpong. A slightly over-exuberant physical display that showed guts as well as naivety also showed a player of exceptional quality. I am especially excited about the prospects of Song Frimpong where two players have outstanding defensive and attacking instinct.

    Well done, well done. I must say, I am excited.

  345. Frimpong did look very good, and whilst I would have preffered him to go out on loan, can actually see him making a significant contribution to the team this year. He looks the type of player we have been after for a while.

    Jenkinson and Miquel did well all things considering, but don’t look anywhere near as being ready to play week in, week out. And nor would you expect them to be given their stages of career. The fact that they are already playing in the 1st team must be warning to the manager that he needs more abled bodies in the squad.

  346. While Ramsey is yet to find his best form, and his passing and movement is yet to reach prior levels, his work rate is fantastic, and note the job he does off the ball. Early days for him.

  347. Too true Zim.

    I’m relishing a midfield of Song, Frimpong and Wilshire. Off those three you can have some seriously attack minded players, an out and out attach Arshavin, Walcott, Myachi, G3, RvP. Any of those gets me excited.

  348. I don’t have any concerns with any players that have featured so far. They all look like they are going to do well in their own way.

  349. If either of AOC or Myachi hit the ground running, Walcott will have to really up his game.

  350. Els – I agree. I have no conerns over them, but they are nowhere near ready to be playing on a regular basis for a side who hope to be competing for the league.

  351. Nope your probably right, that in an ideal world you would give more time to Frimp, Jenk and Miquel to bed in.

  352. @Goonerandy.

    I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Miquel and the Jenks play week in week out. Our first choice defence is Sagna, Koscielny, Vermaelen and Jethro. Also, Djourou and any new CB will provide cover.

    I think the point is more that if called upon to deputize and when playing alongside quality, Miquel and Jenks are solid and dependable.

    As for Frimpong, it’s clear to see that he was considered ready last season. Lee Dixon was commenting on his chats with Steve Bold and he mentioned that he had asked Steve who is being promoted this season and givven a key role in the same way Li’l Jack was last season. Bold said it was Frimpong and he said the lad was ready.

    Again with Frimpong, it’s not about him replacing Song and playing week in week out. When he has to cover, I think he has proved to all that he is capable. The yellow cards and regulation red card are an occupational hazard I’m afraid.

    It’s no different from what Song gets, or what Vieira used to get in his early days. Frimpong will get better at the dark arts and in particular knowing when its time to take one for the team e.g. a tactical foul to slow down or stop a counter attack.

    I also think Miquel, Jenks and Frimpong should be the first names on the Carling Cup and FA Cup team sheets.

  353. Yeah what he said ^^^^^^^

    Also a good point to mention is that the Frimpong sending off couldn’t happen at a better time. He will learn from that.

  354. Out of the 3 though, Frimpong would be the one who looks the most ready to play. Jenkinson looks like a good porspect, but gets caught out an awful lot with his positioning. As you would expect for somebody who has barely play 10 pro games in his life. The PL is a huge step to take.

    Miquel also looks promising, but thorwing a CB in at the deep end in a team that do not protect the back 4 very well is not fair on him, and could adversly impact his development. For me, Jenkinson and Miquel are for the future. Frimpong can provide cover for Song now. In game where we want to “shut up shop” he could even come on and work in tandam with Song which would provide a much better shield for our defence.

  355. I agree with Zimpaul

  356. Strange that I find myself agreeing with Darius so much today. Well said @9.23

  357. Darius – Yeah, I agree with that.

  358. Support has been excellent over the last two games.

  359. I do worry about left back though. Gibbs is injured too often, Traore not good enough for a club of our stature. I fear we could see Jenkinson at right back with Sanga at left back quite a bit this season. And that would not be good.

  360. I wonder if we should have kept hold of Nordveidt? Would have been useful for this season. In a way Jenkinson is having to get used to the rest of the team and club as well as the league itself. That said we have to realise that Jenk has barely put a foot wrong!

    The club seem to be getting into a bit of a siege mentality. Which is nice. Add the fact that many hacks and rags are playing god. After landing Wenger in this hot water many seem to have taken a “maybe wenger isn’t so bad stance”. Utter twats playing twat games. Still they do have a pull and if it does turn our fans back around it’s a good thing.

  361. I think the fans are turning

  362. There is a great feel about the in-stadium support. People are pissed off with the negativity of some ‘supporters’, press and media. Stewart Robson and Alan Smith have become pariahs, seen as merchants of doom. There is a feeling that some supporters deserted the club, manager and players at a key moment last season. People want to put that right.

  363. goonerandy,
    I don’t really agree that Jenkinson he gets caught out an ‘awful lot’. Maybe in pre-season but he has visibly imporved since then. Playing him at LB the other day made him look shaky but you have to admit he was decent in his natural position against liverpool especially considering the nature of opposition.

    I do agree that Miguel is perhaps too much of a risk at this point. It would be better to have some more experience/quality in his position to give a team more balance. Right now the team is too heavily biased in favour of inexperience and while that is great in some ways, we know that come crunch time, the chances of failure is higher.

  364. We can provide the best support in the EPL this season. I think we might do it you know.

  365. Carl Jenkinsonson did not look shaky in either of his games this season. Far from it.

  366. Sorry I meant Carlcarl Jenkjenkininsonson

  367. Henristic – I thought he did (you would expect him too at this point), and his passing is not yet there. Like I said, not a critisism of him, but definatetly not somebody we want to be seeing getting regular game time yet. Unfortunately we are not in a great postion for blooding young players at the moment.

  368. I don’t get to see that Frank. It surprises me as it’s not the feel that the tw**s are trying to portray. Absolutely fantastic news!

    Backs to the wall time. This will do us good.

  369. Frank,
    I wouldn’t be so sure that fans have ‘turned’. I don’t think the support is so much for Wenger as it is for the boys playing. I do agree that there is perhaps some remorse for the shameful chanting away at Newcastle.

    We’ll know one way or the other come the end of the transfer window, especially if no new signings are made, or if the new signings are of the Squil/Silvestre type as opposed to the Gervinho type.

  370. Frank and ELS – I was using the live radio commentary from Dan Roebuck through the Arsenal Player.

    At one point, they let rip on ESPN soccernet as they monitor blogs and sites while the game is on live. They were livid that the site was saying that Arsenal fans are leaving in droves just after the Liverpool goal but this was a clear lie. Roebuck was cursing that these sites say this sort of bs and the gullible fans take it as gospel and it becomes fact without being challenged.

    If anythign, all he said was that some fans moved around because of the rain but the support as a whole was solid. They were particularly pleased with the vote of thanks and standing overation given at the end.

  371. Frank,
    I like how for you, its either our fans are the worst or the best. There is no grey for you is there?

  372. On the TV it looked like there were loads of empty seats at the front all around the ground for lots of the match? Was this due to people moving to get out of the rain? Can anybody who was there confirm?

  373. *I like how with you…

  374. Darius, something is really wrong with that.

  375. @Goonerandy.

    Yes – the Arsenal player commentators said that when it started raining fans at the front moved around to avoid the rain.

  376. This is going to be such a tense week. The CL qualifier, and then Manure at the weekend. All the while the clock is ticking on the transfer window. As is stands the squad is weaker than last season (which needed improving as it is) and our best player has left.

    Some good work in the window could re-invigorate the sqad and fans, but if we cock up what time is left it really is going to be a difficult season. Every year without fail, I believe that this is the year we will win the lge. As it stands at the moment though, and for the 1st time many years, I really don’t believe that 😦

  377. Darius – Ah good, I thought it seemed strange.

  378. Andy other than cesc leaving the squad is far better in every department technically, mentally, tactically than last season. If cesc is replaced and we play in a “together” style we will give many teams and fans a shock.

  379. if reports are true that nasri’s move is delayed by his agent’s demands, then all i can say is that my instinct was right from the start: nasri is a victim of his agent’s greed. i never believed that he wanted to leave. it is his agent who isn’t happy at Arsenal and convinced him to want to leave.

    what a fucking greedy cunt.

  380. We were very unlucky. Our lads gave a great account of themselves. Defence was great. Proud of the youngsters on Saturday. Miquel and Jenks solid, but how good was Frimpong? Up until his dismissal I thought he was man of the match.

  381. I loved the way Frimpong and Li’l Jack let rip on Piers Morgan. LOL! It’s great when the players can bite back at the hacks who think they have licence to moan all the time.

    Frimpong to Piers Morgan on Twitter:
    “U should be ashamed to call urself an arsenal fan all u do is moan about ur team y don’t u do ur job and i will do mine waste”

  382. That’s great Darius. I’m not following frimmy yet. Will do. He’s a proper little (big) character isn’t he. Watched some bizzare youtube clip of him rapping like a numpty in the dressing room the other day. Was very funny.

    What did Jack say to Piers Morgan?

  383. wenger only has himself to blame for our current pickle he didn’t need a soothsayer to predict the probable departure of his two experienced midfielders in cesc and nasri however he has chosen to buy only wingers and attackers thus far. And looking eboue who i know is not everyone’s cup of tea is versatile and invaluable in trying circumstances like these.

    We have 10 days left of the transfer window we have had attempts to sign defenders and midfielders rebuffed, I pray come Sept 1st we are saying thank god he signed those experienced players rather than hearing words like I am happy with squad as it is.

  384. Els – That is not true though. We are worse in the left back position, and we are worse in the cover for both full back positions. Gervihno is a good addition though. All that said, you stated “apsrt from Cesc leaving”; this is massive. He was our best player, and possibly the most creative midfielder in Europe.

    My worry is that if Nasri goes, and then RvP gets injured (which is likely), where will the goals come from?

    We have a number of young players on the fringe of the first 11 which is great. But our 1st 11 needed strengthening, and as it stands it is actually weaker!

  385. @ELS – Li’l Jack was playing good cop to Frimpers bad cop:

    “easy piers he was one of our best players till then! He wanted to show his spirit and mistimed a tackle! Still a great player!”

    Also for Silver Gunner and those moaning and bitching about Wenger should have done this and done that – why don’t you read the Arsenal Times article to keep you a bit more occupied. We could do with a bit less moaning.

    btw – if there’s any credence to this article, it just goes to show how invaluable Wenger has been for this club. I don’t see any other top flight manager agreeing to operate with such restrictions and doing it with as much class as Wenger has.

  386. Darius – It is an interesting acticle. I wonder if there is any thuth to it? If so, it does not bode well for us moving forward. It is probably just more made up crap though.

  387. thuth = truth 😉

  388. Jenk-it-in-son!
    ..whenever young Carl scores a goal!

    Gooners getting behind their gladiators…Song, Gerv, Frimp, Tomas, posibly Djourou, Lil Jack & Traore IN (and twittering) on Wednesday???

    Its looking good RASERS….COYG!

    ..i retain POSITIVES

  389. Goonerandy. I have no clue about the veracity of the article. True, it could be bs, but also, if it has any truth to it – it really does explain a lot about Wenger’s actions this summer. If it has any truth to it, it also shows signs of an Arsenal board with a lot of work to do.

  390. I see it differently Andy.

    I see it that Gael who was a force on his day was allowed to leave as his attitude wasn’t right and we need a left back who can sit back a bit more. We now have this. Injuries will be as ever a problem. We only have so many squad positions and can’t sign cover after cover for one player. We will do just fine.

    Sagna and Jenk will be perfect for right back. Arguably Sagna will get better now that he has been pushed into the senior player role. We are hearing more from him in an off the field role. I expect he will give have been given more influence on the pitch also.

    We now have a central defence of Verm, Kosc, Djourou, Miquel, Squill. This is vastly better than last season as we didn’t have Vermealen and Both Djourou and Koscielny will have another season of development.

    Central mid for all we have lost the best midfielder in the league we will gain a much needed all round responsibility and togetherness from his departure. We have lost Denilson and replaced with Frimpong and a now fully fit Ramsey. For all I liked denilson think these two guys are more effective for where the team is at now. Also we are as yet to see what contribution Ox and Lansbury can add here

    Wide players such as Myachi, Gervinho and ox will add pace and a directness that may have been lacking in many games last season. If Nasri leaves Gervinho will have some filling in to do. He looks more than capable. Even with that we are a few quality players stronger.

    Upfront we have possible added contributions from Afobe, Campbell and Walcott. Add in Gervinho and the hopefully less tempremental VP we will be stronger than before. Let’s hope we can get Cham to start firing on all cylinders like last seasons start. I wouldn’t bet against Wenger to sort this though, would you?

    Oh and also Scz has turned into a fucking demi god in the sticks.

  391. @Darius
    August 21st, 10:24am

    You need to get your facts straight before posting long winded posts. Abu Dhabi isn’t a state or a country, it’s the CAPITAL of the UAE. You know like London, Paris, Madrid etc!

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