Sagna Says & The Media Jump With Other Stuff

The AST Q&A continues to provide the basis for headlines, The Mirror claiming that “£30m will be spent to stop a fans backlash“. Given that £30m was going to be spent before that event and not to stop a backlash but to improve the squad, it beggars belief. Actually it does not because The Mirror has set its agenda clearly and unequivocally,

Few, yet, are willing to demand a change of manager and those brave souls who raised the “In Arsene we rust” banner in the middle of the end of season slump that broke so many Gooner hearts were swiftly shouted down.

Brave? Martin Lipton needs to look at the dictionary definition of brave and decide whether or not it was an appropriate word to use. There was nothing brave about raising a banner, its quite a safe thing to do. Let the people who raised it phone Ivan and Arsène, book an appointment and explain clearly and logically why Wenger should be relieved of his duties. They might find it hard to get a quick meeting though, what with the transfer activity and giving Samir Nasri a dressing down.

Still, we know which side of the fence Lipton and his employers have placed themselves. If John Cross thought Wenger’s relations with the press were deteriorating, the likelihood is that The Mirror‘s are going to be worse than anyone else.

Bacary Sagna has apparently given a radio interview. I say apparently because there is so much cynicism about media coverage these days, that it would be no surprise to find out that a technician had been sitting in a dingy cellar splicing together passages from every interview Sagna had ever given. If you hear the coughing and spluttering caused by a lack of sunlight and Gauloises, you will know that is not such a far-fetched intervention as it first appears to be.

As to what he actually said, well, what you believe depends on the source that you use. For example, The Sun screams, “Cesc Must Quit For Barcelona” which is rather different from his belief that this summer sees his teammate more likely to leave than before. It’s Sagna’s personal belief not a club edict.

Sagna’s words were seized upon gleefully by The Spanish Media – bar El Mundo Deportivo, who were quite possibly too shocked at finding someone connected to Arsenal agreeing with their aim of bringing Cesc home and were unable to report it thus far. Indiscretion by Sagna perhaps but it does not alter the fact that Barcelona are struggling to afford him. It is a situation which may change if other targets end up in Manchester.

Sagna observed – unconvincingly – that Gervinho seemed a half-decent player. Given Arsenal are talking to him and apparently hope to complete this move shortly, the defender’s words were inspirational,

I’ve heard about him. He’s a gifted player. This season, he was a key player for Lille, and really help his team to be champion. He’s got a wonderfull technique on a football field, and I’m sure he would be welcome.

Discussions with Lille over the fee have not yet started which might prove as much of a stumbling block as getting all three persons of the player into the same room at the same time.

As news of this has leaked, you question the logic behind Arsenal remaining silent. Unless other interested parties put the calls of his Mr20% through to voicemail or emails into the Spam bin, everyone who needs to know about the proposed transfer, knows. Shocker. With only us kept in the dark.

A brief statement confirming planned talks allows Arsenal to set the media agenda rather than the other way round. And it would be more useful than this. If lessons of previous summers are not learned off the pitch…

Elsewhere The Guardian speculates that Alisher Usmanov might yet get to see Arsenal’s books. The small matter of getting more than 30% of the shareholdings is all that stops this happening. Whether this would then trigger the shortest, most hostile takeover bid in the history remains to be seen. “Hello, Stan The Man speaking“, “This is Jabba, sell me your shares!”,”Let me think about it…No“, “Oh…”.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on June 15, 2011, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 299 Comments.

  1. First!

  2. “Bacary Sagna has apparently given a radio interview. I say apparently because there is so much cynicism about media coverage these days, that it would be no surprise to find out that a technician had been sitting in a dingy cellar splicing together passages from every interview Sagna had ever given.”

    Haha YW, preempting Frank’s objections?

  3. I don’t think I’d mind Usamanov getting 30% as long as there’s no chance of it leading to a hostile takeover. It might help keep Kroenke and the board on their toes.

  4. I am pretty sure Sagna and other players of ours commented on how Cesc wanted to leave. I am also pretty sure every human being on this earth knows Cesc would like to play for Barcewanka. That doesn’t mean Barca will stump up with the cash to make Arsenal want to sell ( I am sure we have a figure we are willing to agree on ). Why report the same useless stuff when they clearly don’t have an idea of what is going on. Report the news for fuck sake. Who reads this trash? Its pathetic, even more so than Barcelona trying to make us drop the price.

  5. Thanks YW.

    So the Gervinho situation is seeming more real now… Has anyone seen much of him apart from a few youtube vids? Is he the kind of transfer that we’re looking for? Sorry don’t know much about him other than a few sensationalist articles… Cheers!

  6. Geo,
    I suppose it depends on what you mean by “the kind of transfer that we’re looking for”. Care to expand a bit on that?

  7. Well, I mean is he an improvement on what we already have and will he make a big difference to the quality on the pitch? Will he be good enough to be in the first team? Will he tempt the likes of Nasri etc to stay?

  8. I just don’t know how good he actually is… do you have an opinion of him and his attributes??

  9. Gervinho is exacly what arsenal need. Loads of pace, can finish, looks pritty cool with he’s hair, let’s put it this way he’s alot better than bentner.

  10. Geo

    What signing is exactly achievable to tempt the likes of Nasri to stay? We can’t compete if Citeh or Chelski dare to sign a player of real quality that is a big name that happens to be available. You can bet your house on every club in the world notifying Citeh especially if they want to sell a player.

    This is why Wenger is Arsenal manager, this why we are able to compete at the top level. Had we followed that route and sold out completely there was no guarantee we would have remained near the top of the table competing at the highest level and watching such a talented bunch of individuals who have been nurtured for years in order for us to remain competitive. We are one step ahead, lets hope it stays that way. While why they continue to inflate the markets we will go about our business and acquire players who want to play football at the highest level. Only United can really boast that, not Citeh or Chelsea.

  11. the only worry I have with gervinho is he’s really really skinny, and looks weak

  12. Based on the youtube vid – the best of Gervinho.. my verdict is sign him 😛

  13. The Sagna comments are hardly the stuff of jaw dropping, eye popping material which the purveyors of sensationalist headlines will have us believe.

    “Fabregas wants to return to his country of birth, to his city, where his family are”.

    Is there a single Arsenal supporter who finds this statement shocking, we all know if Barca stump up the dough he will go and go with our blessing.

  14. chrisgoona | June 15, 2011 at 10:50 am
    “I am pretty sure Sagna and other players of ours commented on how Cesc wanted to leave.”

    You’re falling for the media hype, Chris!. What happened to you? Don’t you realize we’re being eaten alive?

  15. Thanks afc.

    hahaha! Jesus, chris, I was just asking for an opinion on Gervinho’s attributes, I wasn’t questioning the manager’s ability in the transfer market, or arsenal’s ethos on transfers… Chill out mate, no need to have a rant at every opportunity.

    So again, is he any good?

  16. I don’t think he is particularly rated as ‘star’ players, so not sure if he can convince anyone to stay. I’ve seen him play a few of times (mostly for Cote d’Ivoire) and was never really that impressed. There’s no doubt he is skillful, but I’ve not seem that killer instinct you notice in the best strikers.

  17. Got an opinion Chris? Or you just on your usual crusade to have a go at people, even when they are asking some valid (and not anti-arsenal/anti-wenger) questions??? Don’t jump to conclusions about a simple set of questions, and have a go without thinking about or reading a post properly. Pretty annoying to be honest mate. When did i ever talk about ‘following this route’ or ‘selling out’??

  18. Thanks Henristic. See not that hard, eh Chris? I wasn’t attacking the club I love or our manager.

  19. “Fabregas wants to return to his country of birth, to his city, where his family are”.

    Cry me a fracking river. Im so over it.Fabregas is the one i want to slap. I want to go home to my family, where i was born yada yada yada. Puhlease. Grow the fuck up. He wants to win titles with his friends. If they werent winning everything he would be too bothered would he.

    He never stands up for the club, for the players. He stands up for nothing. He needs to go.


    Nasri’s agent said:

    “I want to clarify that there has been no break with the Gunners over the contract’s renewal and we should meet again soon with Arsene Wenger.”

    I wonder who’s causing the delay, Nasri or the club?

    How long does it take for us to decide if we are gonna pay him what he wants or sell him? The longer the negotiations takes, the stronger Nasri’s hand will be surely?

  21. Not seen Gervinho more than a couple of times, but listening to people who have, it sounds like he’s as much a winger as a striker. He weighed in with a lot of assists as well last season – as many as Hazard.

  22. Geo,
    Never mind Chris. Even though he’s not quite a positive/blinkered as before, he is also never very far from resorting to doomer bashing mode, probably to re-assert his support credentials.
    Am I right Chris? You, closet doomer you. 😛

  23. Hah Gonnerwife,
    Might wanna take it easy there, He’s still our captain, and will probably remain so for a while….

  24. Jabba's delights

    Sagna comments arent exactly news to anybody. Cesc wanted to go last year but is honourable and a gentleman and has alot of affection for arsenal fc. Barca if youw ant him make us a decent offer you complete c^nts!

    Gervinho will add something to our attack. He is different to what we have got. We lack penertration sometimes against teams who defend deep. He apears to be explosive in confined spaces and is more direct than what we have. I think he will be a good addition. Add in one more attacker (william) and i think our attacking ‘arsenal’ looks terrifying.

  25. I don’t know mych about Gervais.
    He played for Beveren!

    Don’t think the M.I.A. Polizano was a fan.

    (Yikes! Allegedly there is never any discourse on this forum. Crumbs. I’ve done it now.
    Methinks some above doth protest too much. Like, all the time. Odd.)

  26. ‘Who is AW is accountable to?’

    Not to a pair of Masterminds who censor their own message board.

  27. To me it looked like we were lacking some raw pace in attack towards the end of last season, which is sort of unusual for a Wenger side. Walcott’s lightning quick, and Nasri can move, but there weren’t many players as explosive. I think he’d been counting on Vela breaking through a little earlier. If (big if – just chewing the cud) Willian and Gervinho show up we’re going to have shitloads of it.

  28. Jabba's delights

    Fabregas is a class act! Everyone knows he wants to go play for his boyhood team but the fact that he came out with this today makes me appreciate even more how lucky we are to have a ”star” like him rather than other around europe

  29. Agreeing with JD on this one – if he does want out then Cesc’s comments are perfect for us. And if he does stay with us I hope he has a decent rest this summer.

    Must say I do miss Poliziano.

  30. Geo

    Second part of my comment wasn’t directed at you, sorry if it looked like a rant, was just proving a point. Am I seriously that intimidating! My opinion is pretty strong you will find. I don’t follow the media and jump on the bandwagon…

    Henristic, I like it. Taking cheap shots when you get the opportunity. Keep up the gd work, I don’t have time for clowns like you.

  31. Henristic @ 11:34am,

    “The longer the negotiations takes, the stronger Nasri’s hand will be surely?”

    Not really sure about the logic of your conclusion here? Is it really a case of AFC vs Nasri (I sincerely hope not)? Is the objective not to keep one of our best players? Is replacing him really the key concern for us?

    Any clarification appreciated.

  32. Thanks for the link Jabba. You can only appluad Cesc, he probably doesn’t want a repeat of last summer. Like he says, Wenger knows what he wants and I am sure we will be willing to speak money when Barca is.

  33. Here is an interesting post on Untold Arsenal by Anne.

    Cesc, the hidden truth about the transfer saga in the media

  34. henristic- just had enough. thats why i didnt like patrick viera back in the day.

  35. im surprised he came out with anything. I think he has been afraid it ruin his barcelona chances.

    Its a start.

  36. positive people do alot better than negative. so stay blinkered CG

  37. You only have to see the headlines on newsnow to appreciate how warped the different news organs are! All screaming how Cesc MUST go to barca and Nasri DEMANDS contract talks as well as Sagna’s comments being twisted too. Wghat a load of shite. Bit like henristic’s efforts today.

  38. Jack Wilshere is literally living the dream. Gotta love twitter for gems like this:

    “Just seen what going to be on the Junior #gunner pack next season! Will upload the pictures! So cool :)”

    Arsenal, man and boy!

  39. CMM,

    I’ve only accessed the first half of this account, do you know if they’ve released the second half yet?

    Just to say, I bow before Anne and her diligence. She reminds me both of the need to be VERY suspicious of anything we find in the Englsh media (particularly concerning AFC) and of the merits of good investigative journalism. Bravo!

    Anyway, if you could let me know the answer to my question

  40. Cesc said today that he was an arsenal
    Player. He was happy. Arsen knew what he wanted but as the boss he also had the final word and cesc would accep that he said. Why do people wanna make a case of that? If AW wants cesc to leave he leaves. If he wants cesc to stay he stays. That’s the end of it really.
    But if people wanna believe daily mail and be decieved every time then nobody can stop them. People love drama and rumours. This is like cosmo for men. Most readers love it. They love the gossiping and the rumours. Embarrassing really…

  41. Dgob,
    I’m a bit surprised you find that contentious? Of course we want to keep him, but the player obviously wants more money than we’re offering.
    the problem is,i he doesn’t sign, he can go for free in a years time meaning we lose a good player, as well as potential income from transfer fee (much like the Chamackh transfer), AND we might still have to fork out not inconsiderable sums to replace him.

    Clearly, or self sustainable model cannot succeed like that and the player(or his agents knows that). Also keep in mind that letting a player go free implies significant financial benefits for the player (through sign on bonuses and increased wages).
    So the player has everything to gain from delaying negotiations while we have everything to lose. Another downside is that the longer the negotiations take, the more desperate we become and weaker our hand gets if we finally decide to cut our losses and sell him, as basically this tranfer window is the only real opportunity we have of selling him.
    By the january transfer window, he may just decide to buy out the rest of his contract or something.

  42. Dgbob,
    It’s not hard to find out if part 2 is out yet- theres a link on ACLF LINKS to Untold Arsenal (which has some good, if complex, articles if you have an hour or 9 to spare.

    Has anyone else been involved in stories published by the press? It only takes reading one article that you know the truth about to show clearly how wrong, distorted, off-beam or stupid jounalists can be.

    BTW I think Sagna wants to see Gervinho at Arsenal so he doesn’t have the wildet hairstyle any more!

  43. At this stage, Gervinho is rated somewhat higher than Bendtner, but it may not end up like that as we all know. He’s credited at Lille, no doubt, and whether he makes Cote D’Ivoire first team regularly is a moot point because that team is loaded with excellent strikers; the fact that he makes it at all is more telling.

    I would not worry about stature. African players are generally tough, assuming he made it through the ranks in African football in the first place.

    Although it looks like a straight Bendtner swap, I would have thought we’ve been watching him for some time. The effects of Arsenal training and style will improve most players, including Gervinho, and Wenger’s decision would be made more on that basis – does he have the potential, and in what role?

  44. The cesc comments and the fact Nasri is preparing to talk with the club again about his new contract is positive stuff as far as I am concerned. But others like to have something to bitch about dont they?

  45. That was a mature response from Fab. He has learned how to deal with the Media. He has been honest in his response.I would give him credit for not kicking up a fuss, any other player who sniffs Barca wants him would hand in a transfer request the next day. Wenger made it clear he wants Cesc to stay so it looks like he will stay Unless Barcelona come up with 50 millions. Wenger needs to decide wether keeping him is good for the team as a whole.

  46. Henristic,

    So you do view it as AFC vs Samir!? I view it more as a case of contract negotiation. If you go into a contract such as this with the intention of making money the b-all and end-all of things then keeping the player HAS TO become a secondary concern. As I stated, I hope this is not our approach and recognise that the issue with the trasfer vulnerability is already upon us. To avoid it, Samir would have had to sign at the end of last season. Then we (AFC) have to consider questions about how certain we were at that point that he was going to make it and he also had to agree to hold such talks.

    We differ

  47. Henristic, the ‘Sky Sports understands Nasri’s agent says this’ quote you led off with sounded positive to me. Everything you’ve said about it since sounds like you read a different quote.

    I’d learn to stop worrying and love the bomb. Nasri will sign in the next couple of weeks. Everything’s playing out quite normally.

  48. 1LC

    If barca actually stopped pissing about and came up with themoney and offered us £50m+ for Cesc, he would be sold. Until that happens, he isnt going anywhere, no matter what the Catalan and English hacks spout.

  49. Billyboy,

    Thanks for the tip. I’d just come off that blog before reading your post. It still does not appear to be available at present but I’ll keep a keen eye out for the second part.

    Almost essential reading for gooners I think

  50. I still think, and hope, in a sort of Xmas present sort of way, that Wenger has another trick up his sleeve, besides G and Samba. Both of those begin to look plausible, on the principle that by the time the mainstream media actually get hold of a real transfer news, the early meetings and contacts are well underway and ‘in principle’ decisions have been made. In principle you may now talk to the players agent, in principle we may look at offers above XYZ.

  51. Limpar @ 12:51pm,

    That was my exact point. Samir’s Mr20% (excuse the adoption Yogi) has even made clear that the links and talks remain stable. Henristic is only concerned that we might loose money, which we are obviously vulnerable to doing anyway – having not resigned him at the end of the 2009-10 season.

  52. Simple fact: there is nothing to indicate contract negotiations with Nasri, and contractual relations with Cesc, are abnormal in any way. On the contrary, media speculation aside, they are both so normal it is now boring to talk about it. So Nasri is re-negotiating his contract because part one expires at the end of next season and it is time therefore to re-negotiate said contract, yawn, at the end of this season, yawn, because both parties would like to re-negotiate, yawn, around now, yawn, and previously, yawn, agreed to, yawn, do so at this time so as to assess, yawn, his performance, fitness, yawn, and wages … snore. Farkin hell.

  53. Dex- Barca wants Cesc to kick up a fuss and force Wenger to sell him that way they will get him on the cheap but he is not the type who would do such thing. Credit to him for that.. Barca has to cough up. The fact that he said he has not spoken to Wenger for six weeks that means there is nothing to discuss.

  54. Chris – no worries man, just try not to get into that mode every time, was just asking a simple question!

    Thanks for that link CMM, interesting read from someone with Barcelona DNA… Obviously most of the shite we read is re-hashed from one or 2 interviews, but good to get someone else’s views on the whole thing.

    I’m still confident that both Nasri and Cesc will stay, and think Cesc’s comments were well handled. He must get so bored of having the same questions asked over and over again…

    And thanks for the Gervinho updates, Zimpaul, OOU, JD etc. 🙂

  55. After watching the video of the Q/A with IG on I saw that Pete (Pedro) from LeGrove actually got to ask a question! He spoke about the managerial mistakes over the past three years and wanted to know who Wenger was accountable to.
    Personally I do not think Wenger has done that badly as many seem to make out. Yes we need some squad strengthening but if our budget has been restricted due to the new stadium then Wenger has done remarkably well to keep us in the top 4. I am convinced that Wenger is still the right person for us and that this time we do have some money to spend.

  56. Zimpaul- Exactly. what would you expect from someone negotiating his contract? Nothing different. Didn’t Rooney did worst?he stopped short of insulting united. once the contract was sort, things resumed to normal.

  57. george rodger

    Well i am not the least bit happy.
    I want Hazard and Cahill.As I am told by Le Grove that they are what is needed.Oh and a Striker of equal caliber too Rvp.You know a goal per game sort of a guy.
    So come on ,splash the cash Arsene.I deserve it.I spend my money on red and white things and demand success.We have won nothing for 6 years you know!
    (note to self”stop reading other blogs”)

  58. George, if I am creepy, you are obtuse! 😀

    How you dojng?

  59. Good work Yogi. I was a bit worried about you after yesterdays write up but, back to your normal self which is good for us.

    I read the Sagna, comments last week and now it’s talked about as if he said it this morning?!

    These people are truly off their fucking heads and they are actually getting paid for the shit they write too!

  60. Geo | June 15, 2011 at 11:02 am

    The guy is class and with the right schooling he is destined to become world class and if anyone can bring that out in him it our Captain Mayhem Mr Wenger. As seen previously with Henry.

    He can play out on the wings or just behind the main striker but, coming in from the wings is where he most dangerous. He depends more on trickery than pace but, has pace and draws defenders in which will leave nice open spaces for us to take the piss.

    I’m bias regarding Gervinho, because I have wanted him to come to us for a while simply because out of all the so called “New Henry’s” we have heard about this is the only one for me who fit’s that description.

    Also if this move happens it will bring so many new dimensions for us because we will be able to shuffle players around very effectively.

  61. Part II of Anne’s post:

    A little taster, here are some quotes from a recorded interview with Cesc last year from the comments in the first post:

    On May 13, 2010, Cesc said the following:

    “I have never considered leaving Arsenal. Never, at any moment. There have always been speculations, there have always been rumors, but if I haven’t left Arsenal it’s because I haven’t wanted to, because I’m very happy.”

    He said it at a public appearance at Port Aventura amusement park in Tarragona, and the only reason I know that he did was because I was lucky enough to stumble across an unedited video of the entire press conference (on Port Aventura’s website, not in the media, naturally).

    Oh, and just while we’re on the subject, here’s another Cesc comment that the media really should have shared w/ Arsenal supporters:

    “I am an Arsenal player and I don’t think about anything else…I did not say that I was going to leave Arsenal to go to Barcelona, because equally Barcelona doesn’t want me.”
    -Cesc Fabregas, May 15, 2010

  62. Miami Arsenal

    Don’t you just love the silly season, the eager anticipation of signings and the utter bewilderment that follows when your thoughts are not matched by Arsene. I tend to think about seasons past when huge names were linked with the club and my excitement grew going to fall flat. The shadows we chase in the transfer game are created by the media to sell papers or get us watching their pundits. We know, or we should know by now that Arsene is very closed about possible additions, his fear that others may strike to force up prices is not unwarranted.

    I have no idea whether Arsenal were in for Phil Jones, do you? I know the papers are telling us they were but where is it they get there information from… a leaked source within Arsenal FC, I think not! Fact is we may speculate until the cows come home but it does not bring us nearer the look final squad come opening day kick off.

    I know we all have views of the situation with Cesc, I’ll skip the Nasri & Clichy problems just for now. The fact that Cesc wants away is not a shock we have been dealing with this for 2 years now in some shape or form. I believe Arsenal would sell their prize asset to Barcelona for the right price and it is that latter issue that is the sticking point. Barcelona are of course using the players desire to return to drive the price down, it is a tactic any club would use in their position so I am not admonish them for it. That said, Arsenal has been firm in their desire to not sell and therefore Barca now have to put up or shut up. I love Cesc for the professionalism he shows in a sport where a contract seems no better than a piece of Charmin Ultra Roll. Bullies are bullies, what we are doing now is facing them down.

    I would like to add my 2 cents on Gervinho. I have youtubed the player to get a sense of what Arsene likes, though only best moments, I like what I saw. That is not an admission that I think his arrival is imminent.

  63. Excellent then. We are keeping the squad together, and bringing in new players.

    Gervinhio scored 15 goals and 10 assists for Lille last season. Very good statistics. Better than Hazard. This Gervinhio vs Hazard, showdown, reminds me of the press speculation over Ben Arfa and Nasri. We got the better one that time around, and I think we will do the same this time. Provided that we are actually interested in either of the two.

  64. Nice write up Yogi thanks.

    Agree that Sagna’s comments mean nothing since we all knew that Cesc wants to go home. Suspect he will be with us next year.

    Not optimistic about Nasri or Clichy. No doubt each has had offers on the table for at least a year. Both players especially Nasri has all the leverage on their side so if he really wants to stay and the club is willing to cough up the money then he will stay. I suspect if he wanted to stay badly enough to be willing to meet the club in the middle it would have already been done. I hope he stays but whatever happens I hope it gets done quickly.

    Almost no mention of Clichy from the club or the media. No idea what that means but if he really wanted to stay I suspect it would have been resolved before now. I hope we keep him but I think we could replace him internally if needed.

  65. With respect to the Barcelona trivia and Cesc Fabregas, I am frequently reminded of a situation that was posited in Poetry. I am not very good at remembering old poetry but it has been mentioned by some, such as Balzebub, that he was not particularly happy about rolling around Heaven all day and essentially being just another Angel. He wieghed this against going to Hell and actually being the outright Boss. “Why be a servant in Barcelona when I can be a Captain at Arsenal!” (This was the actual quote)

  66. Borges Spinelli


    What leads us to believe that Fàbregas’ current lies around the £50m+ ($82.5m) mark; given that he has a year less on his contract and was pretty much anonymous/injured for roughly half of last season?

  67. finsbury

    Thanks for the quotes I will have a read later on the part II. I don’t doubt for one second that Cesc was happy at Arsenal prior to the Barcelona speculation of last summer. Going by them quotes he was obviously not as fazed in leaving for Barcelona as the media made out. It shouldn’t really be a surprise, but Cesc was probably in a really uncomfortable situation being around the Spanish press and his Spanish teammates for much of the summer to come out and say something. He has always made the right noises in his public comments.

    I just hope he still desires and believes we can win a trophy or 2. Much depends on our transfer activity as much as I hate to admit it. I am not worried though, I think Wenger will always bring in quality players if he has a bit of cash in his pocket. Even if he did leave this summer we have a fair few players who are itching to step up. If we keep Nasri, Cesc and Clichy happy and make a few changes it could be a very promising season.

  68. Anonymous with 14 assists and 4 years left on his contract and 23/24 years old. Oh and the fact he is world class. Didnt prevent Torres going for a similar price tag did it? He WAS anonymous!

    That do you borges old fruit.?

  69. BS, players often suffer loss of form and injuries after a World Cup. He was still creating more chances than anyone in Europe come February, so I think even Barcelona are aware how much he’s worth. Problem is that they’re skint (or pretending to be), hence all these silly games.

  70. Chris:

    I think the ball is probably in the club’s court with regards to Nasri and Clichy. In the past we have always had the impression that the way the wage ladder was structured was the critical concern and the club would not allow itself to be held hostage. This is the first time since Flamini that we have really been tested. I doubt that the boss really wanted to keep Gallas last summer so that was an easy decision but I think Nasri is different.

  71. Borges Spinelli

    You can’t judge a player of Fabregas’s quality by form or 1 season alone. He is class and will improve any team he walks into. He always performs when playing for Spain too, a team full of pretty good players you gotta say!

    Games 303
    Goals 57
    Assists 100

  72. I hope so Bill.

    It all depends on how far Nasri is willing to go in terms of his wage demands. 20k may not seem like a lot but it adds up to 1.04m a year. I Hope they both sign. We won’t find a better LB than Clichy who is available, I don’t think Cole or Evra are that much better than him anyway. He is easily in the top 5 LB’s in world football.

  73. LimparAssist | June 15, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    “Henristic, the ‘Sky Sports understands Nasri’s agent says this’ quote you led off with sounded positive to me. Everything you’ve said about it since sounds like you read a different quote.
    I’d learn to stop worrying and love the bomb. Nasri will sign in the next couple of weeks. Everything’s playing out quite normally.”

    Well, that’s obviously what the media wants you to think. You have to believe the opposite of whatever they say. I thought you knew that? 🙂

  74. If only it were that simple Henristic.

  75. ‘This haircut is well deserved’

    heh, thanks dupps.

  76. Borges Spinelli

    Gentlemen, thanks! Your answers satisfy my curiosity, exceedingly. As I’ve always wanted to know what factors/pricing model (Galois theory etc) were used to determine a player’s monetary value to his team.

  77. Borges Spinelli

    Take your pick from the following.

    i) The not so divine ponytail, yours and yours alone for a bargain of 35M. Is that Sterling or Euro’s?
    Not sure if I care.

    ii) The once great Fernando Torres, after 12-18 months of gr*tty form, poor management and injuries. Who might not make it back to the player he once was (ok then, he might) for an nice and easy round 50M. Get. In.

    iiI) The rest of the exciting Murdochian paradise that can be found once one enters the brave new world (headfirst?) through the pane of the Transfer Window


  78. oops, sorry Borges, I was a bit late there.

  79. Lol, the discussions are now about abnormal vs normal contract negotiations? wtf does that even mean? How are ‘abnormal’ contracts negotiated? Never mind…

    Some of you guys are acting like Flamini never happened. Its like the concept of learning from past mistakes that alien to some people?

    I want to believe he’ll sign, cos along with Cesc, he is my favourite player. But the fact of the matter is the longer it takes him to do so, the riskier the whole business gets for us from a financial and footballing perspective.

    And Dgob,, its not ‘news’ that Nasri’s agent says lines of communication with the club are still open. Did anyone think they were closed at any point?

  80. Jabba's delights


    ”He is easily in the top 5 LB’s in world football.”

    There are 2 better French ones than him, not going to that hard to find a few more round the world.

    Marcello, Cole, Contreao……….there is 5

    Clichy is a good solid player who works his ass off for the team. He lacks in alot in other areas. I think he is worth keeping only becuase its hard to find someone at the right price when we have other needs. Otherwise LB is 100% a position we could upgrade

  81. Chris,

    The only time Fabregas has ever provoked anything approching dismay from myself is when he wanted to play in (certain) games when he wasn’t fully fit. He won’t be the first or the last athlete to struggle with that problem, I’ll get over it!

    If that other post confirms one thing, it is that the silly season really is very silly.
    I’m just going to have to sit back ignore all the hitmongering and enjoy the summer sports (cricket!).

  82. Finsbury – no need for bad language. It’s just not cr*cket… Thought you had more Gr*t than that 😉

  83. Henristic

    What the fuck are you wittering on about? The club/Wenger are going to sit down THIS WEEK and try and thrash out the new deal. I imagine if after this week, things might get a bit more tense and decisions about selling or noot will need to be firmed up. Of course everyone here is more than familiar with the Flamini contract shit wehad.


    I hope you aint putting Abidal in that list mate.

    As for Marcelo and Contrao??? Haha! You are funny. 2 flash in the pan media hyper darlings hardly count dude.

  84. Dexter,
    Well they better, or I’ll get angry, and you don’t wanna see me angry….

  85. george rodger

    Jabba ,A player being picked ahead of another player for the national team does not make him better ,except in the eyes of the person picking the teams.

  86. Borges Spinelli

    Arsenal faithful, would you rather we acquired the services of Gervinho or Jeremy Ménez (my preference)?



    J Ménez

  87. What’s wrong with Abidal? I think he’s a very good player. Reminds me of Sagna actually, except taller and left footed.
    Don’t think much of Evra though. he’s wank.

  88. Borges Spinelli


  89. Dont do it henristic! I am sure everyone’s not forgotten.

  90. george rodger

    I like Dexter 🙂
    He says good things to bad people.(well maybe not bad ,but silly)

  91. Jabba's delights


    Defence Attack
    Abidal 8 7
    Clichy 7 7 (very generous)
    Marcello 7 9
    Contrao 7 9

    name one part of clichy game that is better than any of there’s. Why would the best clubs in europe want contrao for 25m when you can have clichy for a pittance?

  92. Abidal’s OK, just no way in the world better than Clichy. I think Abidal probably gets picked as he plays for Barca more than for any other reason.

  93. Friendliest moment of the season award?!

  94. Borges Spinelli

    Henristic, Abidal is a quality player. So, too, is that ugly dude, Taiwo.

    LOL @Finsbury

  95. Just putting numbers next to their names isnt really an argument mate!

    Contrao? plays in an inferior league, not tested. Marcelo? I have seen him many times, he is average as is Abidal. In fact Abidal is the WORST by some considerable distance on that list.

    Who has Contrao signed for? if we are going by media rumours, then add Clichy’s name to Real, bayern and Inter. Not forgetting barca have also been in for him in the past.

    Even cashley had a stinker this season, so lets start all over again mate!

  96. Do Arsène and the scouting team have a copy of your Top Trumps there, Jabba? If you have useful info like that you should fax it over.

  97. Borges

    You seem tio have a right hard on for this Menez dude! If Roma are willing to offload him, then i cant see him being that good though?

  98. george rodger

    Gervinho will not be facing defenses like that if he signs for us.
    Still he does look good on you tube.Not that that means much,

  99. Coentrao is basically a winger. He has looked very wobbly whenever I’ve seen him actually have to be a defender. Very exciting going forward but to give him the same Top Trump rating as Gael Clichy in defence is nonsense in a world gone mad.

  100. george rodger

    LA,Will you be subbing for Yogi when his flight takes off?

  101. Jabba's delights


    Clichy is considered decent to good at both defending and attacking. He excels at none of them. Physically he is brilliant but thats it. He wouldnt be good enough to get into the Barca team as he gives the ball away to much.

    Contraeo has a left wingers skill level and Clichy speed to be able to get back and defend. That makes him a beter player as he is more useful to the team.

    Abidal is considered good enough defensivly to move to cb and has just as much ability going forward as clichy with better distrobution. That make him better.

    Marcello is light years above clichy going forward and has improved a vast amount defensivly as he is now able to play in jose defence. This makes him better than clichy.

    What bar running around for hours is clichy actually that good at???

  102. Hold on, nonsense in a world gone mad makes perfect sense. Doesn’t it? Oh dear… he’s shite a defending anyhow.

  103. Jabba's delights


    When does Clichy fill you with confidence defensively? And the less said about him going forward the better.

    He is a good player but these guys are clearly better than him when you add up the pro’s and cons of their games.

  104. Cesc is worthy of a Torres-like fee. Even more I would argue.

  105. I am actually off pretty much the same time, G-man. Extended annual Glastonbury leave.

  106. george rodger

    Gael’s stats show he is the best defensive left back in the most difficult league in the world.
    His loss will be huge if it comes to pass.
    I don’t see how people can not rate him as a top tier player.But what do I know?

  107. george rodger

    Oh no who is going to administer my daily fix?

  108. Jabba please read the link posted yesterday that shows Clichy as the best defensive LB in the EPL. Off the top of my head I recall Clichy having over 100 interceptions, less than 1 turnover a game, and Cashley Cunt was dribbled past 4 or 5 more times than Clichy was.

  109. Geo@ 4.04

    Sorry about that!

    tbh as I bump and grind my way over the potholes of London’s road infrastructure I can’t help but feel that there is a distinct lack of gr*t these days.

  110. george rodger

    No Jabba they are not “clearly”better they are only better in your eyes.
    This is where you consistently go wrong.Your opinion is your opinion,and you are entitled to it and indeed to express it .But it is not fact and it does not make anything “clearly” anything.

  111. Clichy has long filled me with confidence. I think he’s an excellent fullback.

    Someone actually added up the pros and cons of the top leftbacks in the country (pros and cons were represented using relevant statistical data, like; tackles won, possession won, cleansheets etc etc). A scouser I think. Some kind soul posted it on here yesterday.

    May I say I actually agreed with you about something the other day, Jabba…. can’t remember what…. possibly in your appraisal of Gervinho.

    I wonder if hell froze over!

  112. Borges Spinelli


    I prefer Ménez ‘cos I’m aware more of his game, than the other multiple personality fella. I’ve watched him play quite a few times, over roughly 3 seasons. And or the record, it is he who is looking to part with Roma and not the other way round. Jeremy Ménez has a frosty relationship with the coach and some teammates; and hasn’t featured much under the new guy (3rd in 2 seasons).

    If you can, find the video of the match between France x Brasil from earlier on in the year. Ménez was the best player on the field by a country mile.

  113. Jabba's delights

    I dont think Clichy is a bad player i just think he isnt a great player.

    He isnt great attackingly, as we all watch arsenal week in week out there cant be one of you who says that he is. His crossing has regressed he has scored 2 goals in 7 years with the club and under 10 assists. He is a weak attacker.

    Defensively his pace and fitness gets him out of tight situations but his positioning is the worst in the backline and he gets caught ball watching lots. He often plays the oppostion onside. He has massive tendancy to give away late pens as well as well. He has had 2 poor seasons in a row

  114. george rodger

    He has had 2 poor seasons in a row

    Has he? you mean in your opinion.Because it is certainly not mine.

  115. george rodger

    He has massive tendancy to give away late pens as well as well.

    Absolute fucking rubbish.

  116. Jabba, Marcello and Contrao better than Clichy? Not that I’ve ever respected your analysis but this is absolute nonsense.

  117. george rodger

    My new found patience is now being severely tested.

  118. Has there been anyone in recent memory who went into the last year of their contract similar to Nasri and Clichy who actually ended up signing a new deal?
    I’m asking because I don’t know. We remember the ones like Flamini and Gallas who left. Has this situation ever turned out to the right way for us?

    It feels like Arsene has always had players on long term contracts and usually improves the contract well before this point if needed.

  119. Jabba's delights


    arsenal tinted glasses off please. 10 assists 2 goals in 7 years and he is the weakest player in our starting back 4………………………….like i said decent player we could def upgrade.

  120. there goes Jabba and his objective ANALzying. Considering that we have 3 or 4 world class attackers on the pitch, Clichy’s offensive duties are minimal. Also on the plus, he isn’t an arrogant cunt like some of the other top left backs.

  121. george rodger

    Wiliam,how did you know I was a left back?

  122. Read up my dear non-friend, Slobba. If you really want me to go digging i’m sure i could find some numbers on your boys Contrao and Marcelo. Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing Marcelo on our team but I am also satisfied with Gael.

  123. Jabba's delights


    Problem is big guy we arent that amazing going forward and we are poor defensively so it would help if he dominated one facet of the game dont ya think????????

  124. Jabba's delights


    I said im satisfied with Clichy on the team, doesnt mean that we couldnt still upgrade. He has been in contention for team of the year 1 in 7 years at the club.

  125. When you were born, your parents didn’t want you so you got “left back” at the hospital!

  126. Borges Spinelli


    Mind you, both Marcelo e Coentrão have age on their side to surpass Clichy. Not to mention their versatility in other posições.

    I’m a fan of Clichy, nonetheless.

  127. From the numbers I just posted, it looks like we either stick with the best defensive LB in the EPL, or we can trade some defensive stability for more goals and assists. Do you think our goals should be coming from a left back or midfield/attackers?

  128. Borges Spinelli

    Well said, Chi-town kid.

  129. george rodger

    Jabba’s delights | June 15, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Problem is big guy we arent that amazing going forward and we are poor defensively

    That makes us sound pretty shit ,if you ask me.

  130. Jabba's delights


    So are you saying that we have the best right back in the league and the best defensive left back in the league…………wow maybe we defend better than i thought… no.

    For the amount he goes forward and gets caught going foward we need much more end product from Gael im afraid. You wont find many people other than on this sight who agree with you

  131. george rodger

    You seem to be in the minority today Jabba.Again!!!!

  132. Jabba's delights


    We aretn amazing going forward mate, we never win the goal socring chart most of the time we finish 3rd.

    Defensively we arent very good im afraid. So if Clichy could dominate one area of the game that would be great. Otherwise it makes a little sense and isnt unreasonable to suggest we find a player who can add something to one area of the game which would make us better.

    7 assists and 2 goals in 7 years

    He si our worst defender when our starting back 4 is out. Can we not improve on that???

  133. george rodger

    Jabba.We do defend better than you think.You have at last solved your problem.

  134. Jabba's delights

    10 assists

  135. george rodger

    Jabba’s delights | June 15, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Problem is big guy we arent that amazing going forward and we are poor defensively


  136. Jabba's delights


    I think we defend like an average team. Most of the world would agree with me.

    We conceded 17 goals in 1997-8 , 43 this year and 41 last.

  137. Jabba it seems you are not a fan of statistics. In that case I have no firepower to prove my argument that Clichy is the best defensive LB. Also how can you say we are not amazing going forward? Do you realize this is the Arsenal we are watching? We are one of the best attacking teams in the world.

  138. george rodger

    Sorry ignore that last post it was meant to be

    “He si our worst defender when our starting back 4 is out. Can we not improve on that???”


  139. Jabba's delights


    there are 3 of us arguing. Imagine if you went on Gunnerblog, arseblog, le grove and argued your points you would lose everyday.

    Cant believe im geting sh^t for saying we could upgrade at lb. He is good but not great its so simple and right it hurts.

  140. Borges Spinelli

    Troopers, tell me, if you had a choice between retaining Nasri or signing Ashley Young – who would you opt for, and why?

  141. george rodger

    If United or Chelsea tried to play with the flair and style we do,how do you think their defensive stats would look then?

  142. Jabba's delights


    We arent amazing going forward as we dont score enough goals considering we bomb more players forward than anyone else.

    How would Wenger say it…………..we arent very efficent!

    Guys in your eyes arsenal are perfect. The legue table suggest we are the 4th best team in england with a mid table defence and an attack that scored 15 less than last year.

    You arguing styles are there to kill anyone who doesnt say that arsenal are amazing, the issue is we arent , our manager see’s that hence why he is after forwards and defenders.

  143. george rodger

    Nasri because he is a far better player.
    Is it a trick question?

  144. Jabba's delights


    I dont know mate but considering they score more than us nearlly every year and without question they defend better than us every year i would suggest our ”flair” needs some fine tunning.

    Chels scored 100 goals last year…………….think about it.

  145. george rodger

    Jabba .are you a Goth?

  146. Jabba I might agree with that average defense thing. Here is why. Our set piece defending is less than average. Our open play defending is kick ass. Add the less than average and the kick ass, then divide by 2. That leaves us somewhere around average. If we rid ourselves of our set piece woes our defense will be superb

  147. After watching the whole AST meeting yesterday on the “Fantastic” new Arsenal Player, I decided and after so much thought, awarding the most stupid question award to: “Who is Arsene accountable to?”

    And to be honest, the most stupid question of the day resulted in equally stupid answer by Ivan. The response to that stupid question should have been: Arsene is accountable to his employer and the board, we are completely satisfied with his work and support him %100. So, if you don’t like him….Go f*ck yourself somewhere (I suggest a groove).

  148. Well, its over!!.. Here in Barcelona, everyone is talking about Cesc being told today, that he will not be coming to play for Barca..

    I for one couldnt be any happier and so should Arsenal!.. I think he will be more focused and performing better than last season, now that he knows hes not going anywhere.. Now WE can focus on areas where there actually is some room for improovement.. Hours after being told, Cesc went on to say that hes happy at Arsenal and that he will stay!! lol!!!.. to us that just means he was told, that hes not needed, and that we will not pay an enormous ammount just to bring him.. oh, and that it is his own fault for signing another contract.. But you can all say he stayed out of loyalty and all of that other bullshit!! LOL!!

    oh, and..


  149. george rodger

    We look like we will score 100 goals every year then February comes.
    Think about that!

  150. Borges- My arsenal instincts say Nasri but some other unknown feeling is saying that Ashley could provide a different style of attack. Then again our playing style doesn’t really benefit from a winger running to the touch line and whipping in crosses. So my vote would have to be Samir.

  151. Jabba

    And you were doing so well mate. You have resorted back into he doomer mode whereby you have to try and convine everyone how shite our own players are and how great players are of other teams.

    Shame, thought you had promise.

  152. But Dexter, Chelskum scored over 100 goals two seasons ago! How can you ignore that fact???

  153. george rodger

    Cuervo,So you are saying that your scumbag of a club has had an illegal meeting or contact with Cesc.
    And having destabilized the young man with constant public dalliances they now decide to leave him high and dry?Is that what you are pleased about?
    Shower of cunts.the lot of you.

  154. george rodger

    Dexter are you serious?
    You are so funny.

  155. George sometimes you just can’t win with these people! How are you doing this fine day?

  156. george rodger

    Fine William just fine.

  157. Im an optimist George, I see the best in everyone, well almost everyone!

  158. Borges Spinelli

    I posed that earlier question because Manchester United are reported to be offering Ashley Young £130k ($214,500) per week. If true, this makes Nasri, who by most account is the better player, justifiably deserving of a larger recompense from Arsenal.

  159. Borges Spinelli

    Cuervo eres pajero que te folle un pez jajajajajaja pendejito.

  160. Borges Spinelli

    Eres el diablo de las farça!

  161. george rodger

    But Arsenal is not United.I dont follow your logic.Or lack of it even.

  162. Borges Spinelli

    George Rodger,

    I didn’t expect you to…

  163. I agree George. How does the fact that United are possibly offering 134k to Young relate to what Arsenal pay Nasri. If United want to spend tons of money on a pretty good player then let them do it. If Nasri gets jealous because some other dude is making more millions then himself, Nasri needs to sit down and think about his priorities.

  164. george rodger

    United pay Rooney £250k per week.He is not as good as Rvp .Shall we pay Robin £251k?or Cesc. £252 because he is better still.?
    Or should we offer Ade. £150 k to come back.Because City give him £140k?
    Where does it end?

  165. george rodger

    What do you expect BS?

  166. George, William, Dexter:

    Did it ever occur to you that optimism in the face of a lot of evidence to the contrary is one of the reasons the club is currently in the position its in? More power to you and I won’t try to tell you that you are wrong if your really happy with where we are right now. Myself and I think most fans would rather see us getting better results and hopefully you won’t begrudge me or anyone else that opinion either.

  167. george rodger

    Bill.I love the way we are trying to do it .It means more to me than winning.
    I hope you dont begrudge me that.
    I want better results the present way of doing.

  168. Borges Spinelli

    George Rodger,

    I don’t have all the answers.

    Using your ‘logic’, maybe the more adroit approach would be for the board to allow its 3rd best player go for pittance, to a rival, in hope that a 17yr old somewhere will come good next millenium.

    Like it or not, lap dog,success comes with a price. It’s the way of the footballing world.

  169. George:

    No problem with that. I have never criticized you for your opinion.

    I gets lots of grief on this site but I just want us to win things. Thats why I watch sports. In my mind there are lots of things that the club has been doing that does not make sense with that goal in mind. Just like everyone I have opinions and I try to make a logical case for what I think we should be doing differently and why I think we should do it. We all have said on here that the squad needs some changes and agree in the abstract, but the second we discuss a specific player that player is the best in the world which realistically can not be true based on our results.

  170. If we don’t pay somewhere close to what the other “big teams” do then there is no way we can maintain our status as a big club. Unfortunate but I think indisputable. Arsene has done an amazing job of keeping us ahead of the curve to this point. I doubt there is anyone in the world who could have done what he has the last 6 years but some big cracks developing the last few years. Hopefully the club will come up with some way to increase its revenue to at least be competitive with those other teams.

  171. Bill you are a champ! They say great minds will always encounter hostile opposition from mediocre minds. I dont know how you do it but cool calm and collective is probably the best way to describe it. Of course you are entitled to your opinions as we all are, its the modern area we live in. Some would rather have a dictatorship where no one ever questions and no one is ever held accountable. Never mind they will soon be extinct.

  172. We have to pay our best players market rates, or there is a strong risk that we will lose them. So yes, george and wiliam, it matter very much how much united pay their players. More so in this case as they are one of the clubs interested in Nasri.

  173. Fair enough Bill.

    If we don’t pay somewhere close to what the other “big teams” do then there is no way we can maintain our status as a big club. Unfortunate but I think indisputable.

    There definitely is a way to maintain status as a big club without spending the GDP of a small nation. We have been doing it for the past 5 or 6 years. I believe we will continue to do the same in upcoming seasons. Maybe if things go our way for a full season, we could win a trophy or two. Who knows, right? At least we play proper football and it is a joy to watch, much more enjoyable than those other big clubs you rave about.

  174. If that is the case Henristic, I sure am glad that we have the loyalty of RVP. He doesn’t mind watching shrek face get an extra 70k every week over at the red mancs because he believes in Arsene and the Arsenal.

  175. Yes, william, RvP is a rare specimen, and we must never make the mistakes that all our players are like him. Even so, we shouldn’t be to quick to canonize him, his contract is up in a couple of years. Lets see how that pans out…

  176. Bill

    My optmisim was about how I could even imagine doomers like you seeing sense. But it appears you beyond help.What position are we in pray tell? Were we relegated? No, we faltered at the tail end of the season again. Not good, but he who constantly whinges and moans misses the point of following a football team.

    Wake up oh dull one.

  177. And Bill (after reading the whole post)

    Dont even pretend you have any clue what most fans want or think, or indeed what me being an optimist implies.

    I saw a description somone coined for Daily Mail readers; “They are just intelligent enough to realise they arent that intelligent.” Obviously you arent that intelligent.

    Were you at St James Park for the 4 all thisseason? Or The Hawthorns for Almunia’s antics? Or the Reebok for hat 2-1 loss?

    I was and it wasnt a happy time, I wasnt all smiles or content with my lot. I think its clear there needs to be changes.

    But, dont assume you know me, because you dont. And judging by the inane negative tripe you spout on here on a daily basis, I am really glad I dont know you.

  178. William @ 7:43:

    The other problem is Arsene can’t go on forever and if there is no one else in the world that can hold things together then what happens when he leaves? Ultimately we will not maintain our status without being financially competitive.

    You do not win without playing good football. How many teams that play like Stoke actually win anything? Your definition of playing proper football only seems to include playing exactly the way Arsenal play at this moment which is fine. I believe that scoring goals and preventing them is the way to play proper football and there are several ways to do that. IMO our dogmatic beleif in the way we play does not always give us the results we need so I would like to see us be more flexible since that has been giving better results for other teams.

  179. i know everything is about money these days but you cant put a price on wearing the arsenal jersey …priceless. i would play for free

    Two words “get gervinho”

    And Man City…please scout your own players and stop jumping on the bandwagon and trying to sabotage every deal that every other team goes for…

    England U21 without Wilshere, Gibbs and Theo is shit. …theres is apparrantley £150 million worth of english talent on show at the U21 finals but youd never looking at this lot.

  180. Birmingham city plays pretty a brand similar to Stokeball and they won the Carling Cup.

    My definition of proper football is one that involves accurate passing, close quarters control, movement, and lots of skill. Consider what your logic says Bill (I believe that scoring goals and preventing them is the way to play proper football and there are several ways to do that) Take Stoke City for example, they score goals and prevent goals as well, right? In your mind Stoke City is a proper football team. That is where we differ.

  181. God this is dreadful.

  182. I agree OOU. I wish we had some actual football to discuss rather than trying to prove our own opinions to be true.

  183. England getting another footballing lesson, this time from the might of Ukraine! Pearce has tried to adopt the Mancini model; fill your team full of big players, loads of defensive minded players and hope one of your more attack minded players, erm, Rose, or Wellbeck nicks or creates something for Sturridge.

    Awful, truly awful, yet this neanderthal thinks playing like the Spanish is for nancy boys.


  184. Blame Pearse OOU

  185. Do any of the U21 players actually know how to trap a ball from a pass? Awful technique from most of them.

  186. Jamie from Youngguns posted this (on twitter) a moment ago.

    “The problem is not players, its coaches, right through the England system. Old fashioned, uninspiring and tactically naïve.”

    How true

  187. my wish has been granted! What did yall think of the first half?

  188. No, I was commenting on a real football match, William – careful what you wish for!

    Yeah guys – I know he’s a Chelsea player, but with Wilshere missing, this game’s crying out for someone like McEachran. And Pearce didn’t even pick him in the squad. Grrrr!

  189. Yeah Dups, it’s the same at every level. And there’s nothing more disheartening than watching an u17 team play long ball.

  190. Pearse is a neanderthal who is just proving his credentials. This is what people like Bill are crying out for Arsenal to produce. But while I would still support the team regardless, I’m not sure that it would get me off my sofa on a cold night in January to go watch it in person!

  191. He dropped Cleverly for Rodwell and keeps Manciene in central midfield! Basically because he’s made manciene his ptan, he has to play him, even though he cant play at the back as that would mean one of the manc CBs being humiliated by not being picked!

    Pearce is a douche bag!

    And that dude fromyoung guns is right, its the coaches and always has been.

  192. OptaJoe Opta Sports
    45% – Of the 29 long passes attempted by England in the first half against Ukraine, only 13 (45%) found a teammate. Hoof.

  193. Why do you have to be such a childish prick passional? I read every comment Bill has posted and i see no reason to claim he is a fan of hoof ball. You are making assumptions and putting words in peoples mouths… Very big of you.. If you cannot see the point in being able to defend as well as score goals then you really know nothing of the beautiful game, nothing !

  194. I can’t believe Pearce didn’t pick McEachran. Bloody shame that.

  195. Bill said that his brand of proper football involves scoring goals and preventing goals as well. Hoofball definitely falls into that category.

  196. I fuckin hate Stuart Pearce!

  197. Thanks Timmy T, your comment is no less than I would expect from you

  198. Ha! Its hilarious listening to the Sky chief jingoist trying to wax lyrical about this shower of shite.

  199. Watch your mouth, Tiny Tim.

    Yay, Lansbury!

  200. If the goal was 20 metres wider & 10 metres higher England would be 2 up now 🙂

  201. Lansbury on!

  202. O sorry William, on that statement I guess Bill must be a doomer then.. Thanks for clearing that up. Imagine that football is about scoring as well as preventing goals. which then do you feel we could improve on William?

  203. TimmyT

    Judging by your earlier eulogising,. I wouldnt be surprised if you had your cock in your hand as you were reading Bill’s missives!

  204. Or what one of us,, you gonna come through the world wide web and scold me! Like I feel for your narrow mindedness,,
    The sad thing Passenal is that you spout shit that I actually expect from you too,, just doesn’t get any easier having to read you snide little digs at people who actually have opinions and arnt scared of upsetting the little mutual masturbation club that you are part of.
    Very sad.

  205. I think I have worked out Pearce’s game plan;

    Play your cloggers for an hour or so, dont concede, then bring on the good players when the opposition have knackered themselves out!

  206. Just because you wank off to fellow posters dexter does not mean every one does..

  207. Mutual masterbation

    Great minds eh Timothy?

  208. The going rate for players cannot be what a few clubs pay their players.
    No matter how much money City, Chelsea, United and the like pay their players they can only play a certain amount of players.
    If they go for the “best” Arsene will buy the overlooked players and turn them into Champions. If the big clubs clubs want them after a while and they are set on going, then whoever team they want to go to should get pimped, we should milk them for every dollar possible.

    I dont think Arsenal should go pay players to the detriment of the whole at all.

    We have a sensible model and if we become like the rest who we think are cheating the system what does that make us.

    Maybe I have gone overboard but I love the Arsenal way!

  209. TimmyT I never called Bill a doomer. You’re argumentative tactic is called slippery slope, and it is invalid. Base your argument, loosely, off what I said, then exaggerate ten-fold.

    For question number 2, I would say that the Arsenal should work on preventing goals.

  210. Pffft, is that the best you got Timothy?

    You dont see anyone else fawning over others comments like you were earlier;

    “Ooh Bill, I dont know how you do it, you are sooooo wonderful.”

    Hahahahaha! What a creep.

  211. whatever team…

  212. george rodger

    Did BS call me a lap dog?
    Cheeky fellow.No need for that 😦

  213. Paul N, you’re basically saying you ok with us being a feeder club?

    Why does a sensible model mean we have to pay our players less than United for instance? Its not like they have a sugar daddy either? Heck, their owner actually TAKES from the club and gives nothing back?

  214. george rodger

    WTF another creep.
    Is is catching ?

  215. Manciene showing why he is a centre back and NOT a midfieler with a shocking misplaced pass. Yet Pearce would rather take off Rodwell, than the ex Chav.

  216. george rodger

    Paul N,I wish I had said that .Pimp them indeed .

  217. George

    I think it could be an epidemic!


    Are you comparing us to United? Thats funny. I think its more to do with the wage structure, I think thats the point Paul N is making, yet you, true to form take it and twist it into a whole new thang!

  218. Fucking dreadful

  219. Wow these English players are falling down quite easily, Lansbury included.

  220. £20 million for Henderson is looking even worse business than I thought!

    Why does Pearce swap a DM for a DM when they’re chasing the game with two minutes left? Did he do that just to humiliate Mancienne?

  221. Big Al ~~ he is more frightened of losing than he wants to win.

  222. We will get stuffed by the Czechs at this rate. At least Henri will get a nice holiday before pre-season starts.

  223. Dexter,
    Did you really understand my post? Go read it again and tell me where i twisted his words.

    And yes, I can compare us with United. They are the only ones we can reasonably compete with in term of wages, unlike Chelsea/Mancity who are in a league of their own.

  224. I read it, dnt patronise me.

    You are comparing us to United, who pay their players £250k a week. Yeah, we should be very comparable. United have consistently paid top dollar for years. Comparing us to them is twisted. (See?)

    Now go read smething interesting, War and Peace perhaps.

  225. george rodger

    Henristic,I read your post and you did twist it by implying that Paul was saying he was happy to be a feeder club.
    You are being obtuse ,are you not?

  226. OOU, sadly the media will spin it as Arsene’s fault for discouraging JW from playing. But one decent player on his own could not make a difference playing in Pearce’s ultra D-fensive set up. He would have been wasted and then blamed for failure just like Theo was last time out.

  227. Passenal ~~ going back down to the U21 would have also set him back a year in his development.

  228. His obtuseityness shows no sign of abating George! 😀

  229. True dupsffokcuf, it certainly did not do Theo any favours. I

    t’s interesting on sly sports’ website there is a feature about the future of England, with a photo of Jack and Theo. Now, which club is it that they play for? Surely not foreign Arsenal, with that terrible anti-English Wenger in charge?

  230. george rodger

    Now I am well known for not wanting to bad mouth people .But how bad a manager is Pearce?
    He is an absolute fucking thick cunt dinosaur.
    The future of the national team is bleak.

  231. Its fucking hoofball .and some people seem to think we should join in if it gives us a tin cup,pffft.

  232. George/Dexter,
    You’re posts are so similar, its uncanny.

    Here’s what Paul said:
    “If the big clubs clubs want them after a while and they are set on going, then whoever team they want to go to should get pimped, we should milk them for every dollar possible.”

    Then I asked him (hint: question mark at end of sentence) to confirm if he indeed meant we should be a feeder club, which is the logical implication of his sentence above, in my opinion of course.

    So tell me again, what part have I twisted?

  233. Henristic what Bill, you and others are saying is off base in the way how Arsenal deals with football and how much money we have.

    We CANNOT compete with the big money clubs as far as salaries at this point and saying we need to compete doesnt change that. Our team must do what it takes to stay competitive within our resources.

    If a player wants to go and presses the issue then we sell to the highest bidder, or if said player wants to go to a particular club they pay what we want. If not, they can go and hold their corner and shut up.

    We will never be a feeder club but we surely can sell a player in a good piece of business.

  234. Henristic, your response was too simple. Anyone could see what I am trying to say and I believe many on here have said thsi regarding Cesc.

    If we cannot pay the big money what do you propose?

  235. What is wrong in being a feeder club if we are feeding them Ade and Toure for £40 mill?
    Or a past his best Paddy or TH ,or a bench warming Hleb.
    More feeding I say.

  236. “The future of the national team is bleak.”

    Agree completely about Pearce, GR, but, contrary to what that moron says, very few players from these tournaments go on to play for their senior sides. Apart from Germany in 2009, the average looks to be about two per squad.

  237. Henristic

    Here’s a hint for you; try not to be so smug and patronising.

    You compared us to United, I suggested that was stupid as they have consistently paid top dollar. Funny you didnt want to come back on that point (my only point there)

  238. If we cannot pay the big money what do you propose?

    Spend beyond the clubs means.Fuck it it not his money.

    How is that for obtuse?

  239. He, I guess the fact me and George both used the word twisted might make it difficult for you to notice the differences in our posts.

  240. Passenal or William:

    Are we the only team in the PL that does not play hoofball? If not which teams play proper football?

  241. OOU & Passenal….What did you expect when the FA appoints someone called Psycho as their U21 manager?

    Just a reminder of what kind of player he was:

  242. Paul,
    Big money clubs aren’t equally ‘big’. Chelsea and more recently Man city are on one level, (chelski wages about 173m/yr), and united are 40m below that at 132m. In some ways we are already a big club as our wage figures (110m) are closer to Uniteds than Spurs (67m) are closer to us.

    It is inevitable that the gap in wages between us and United will have close unless we WILL be a feeder club. We’d never be able to keep our best players for long enough to sustain success before they have to be sold.

    United currently make more revenues than we do, so can better afford their wages, but they also pay more in interest payments as well. In essence, the gap between us and them is not as great as you make out.
    Besides we probably have more scope to maneuver if we do away with the present wage structure. i.e. increase the differential between highest and lowest earners, cut the number of non essential playing staff, and so on

    Also in a few years when the current commercial deals lapse, then they’d be no reason why our revenues shouldn’t be match theirs.

  243. Dexter,
    Apologies if I’ve offended you, although I have to say you don’t seem your usual self today. You ripped into Bill a while ago and now saying I’m smug and patronising?

    and regarding the comparison with United see, my 10.34 post.

  244. Henristic,As easy as that egh?
    Well if only the club would employ a financial whiz like you instead of the no hoppers the now employ.
    I suggest you send in you CV sharpish.

    Sorry for being a scarcastic obtuse cunt .But you bring it on yourself.You and every other chump who thinks they know best, and that they have answers where highly paid experts are stumbling around in the dark.

  245. sarcastic. I meant

  246. Do we av a wage structure?? I thought Sol Campbell rammed his fat arse through that….then Henry …then Cesc… Nasri wants sum.

  247. Henristic

    The smug bit, was off, I apologise, but you were being patronising dude! United are in a league with Real and Bayern and perhaps Barca now, We are in a league with the spuds, Villa, in terms of revenues and global appeal.

    BUT, we are the only ones of those teams punching well above our weight and TRYING to compete with the big boys. City and the chavs have artificially gate crashed the party and that is somethin we cant do anything about and I am pretty pessimisitic UEFA, or the FA will do fuck all about either. That doesnt mean we shouldnt spend where its needed, ammounts we an afford and strengthen the playing and coaching staff. It is not a imposasibility to compete with those teams, but o suggest we try and match them for wages etc is just not workable, IMO.

  248. DukeG

    Yeah, there’sa wage LIMIT mate. No where near United’s, City’s or the chavs.

  249. I think the only way for us armchair fans to gauge our skills against the best is to play Football Manager.

    I just don’t understand how any one of us say with absolute certainty what’s right and whats wrong in managing a football club technically or operationally without any real life experience?

    I mean if I stand in from of Gazidis and tell him you don’t know what you’re doing, what did I base that on exactly?

  250. To make my point clearer,
    I’m proud of the fact that we’ve been able to stay in the CL all these years with the shoe string budget we’ve had. It’s been easier to keep the wage structure these past years because we’ve had a team consisting for the most part of young relatively unknown, cheaply assembled players.

    But the longer we’ve stay in the CL, the older and more ‘world class’ some of our players have become. It is now patently unreasonable to think we can continue to keep them on relatively low wages.

    The current wage structure has helped us so far, but it might easily become a hindrance to our further success as a club if its not adjusted to reflect the current realities of today’s world

  251. G4E
    That is what I was trying to say in my own little obtuse way

  252. Henristic,That is quite a reasonable argument.
    Sorry for being short with you.

  253. Thats where creating an ethos, a single shared vision nd a love for the club comes in handy. RvP has it, Henry had it, so dod Bergkamp. Thats how we keep our players, that and winning stuff, obviously! I also think having a good amount of home grown players, from the youth set up is a good way to embue team spirit and harmony

    The alterative would be a league where all the best players are in 3 teams, without exception. Now that day ma well come, hopefully we WILL be able to pay these sky high fucked up wages as the stadium debt has been paid up.

  254. Dexter,
    Like i said, apologies…

    But you are still wrong when you say

    “United are in a league with Real and Bayern and perhaps Barca now, We are in a league with the spuds, Villa, in terms of revenues and global appeal.”

    The last sentence in particular is so wrong, I wouldn’t even know where to start arguing it. Our global appeal is second only to Real, ManU, and Barca, and maybe on par with Liverpool. We’re so far ahead of the pack you mentioned, its not even funny.

  255. I know GR, it’s simple yet hard to get across. I guess endless arguments is a good way to pass summer time.

  256. Oh, I also think performance related pay and bonuses is another good idea too. Say give Nasri £90k basic and £10k an assist and/or goal for example. Tht might up his assists tally a fair bit!

  257. No worries George.

  258. Dex .If we were completely debt free we would still not be able to pay wages like the other 3.
    They are losing almost £100 million per year,each.
    If we were making £50 mill profit(a big ask)we would still be going into debt of £50 mill per year even before compound interest started to kick in.
    My figures will not stand close scrutiny,but you can get my drift

  259. OK, not global appeal, althugh we arenowehre near the top tier, no way.

    Butour expenditure is is comparable with the teams I mentioned. Liverpool’s spending has outstripped ours for years now. In fact we spend about the same as Newcastle, Everton and Stoke come to think of it.

    So my point is even stronger, thanks for helping Henristic.

  260. Dexter,
    Finally something we can agree on!!

  261. George

    I am hopeful those other teams, by hen will either have gone bust, their sugar daddies fuced off or at least pretending to spend what they make!.

  262. Dexter,

    But its by choice that our expenditure has been so low. Not to take anything away from Arsene. I’m proud of our way, but fact is that we are significantly richer than all of those clubs and have been so for a while.

    That we chose to spend at the level of Wigan doesn’t mean our expectations should be the same as theirs.

  263. Borges Spinelli

    Yeah, George, I called you a lap dog. An appropriate name for a spineless weasel of a man. Too afraid to express an opinion of his own; for fear of offending those whom he spends the most time online fellating.

    Clearly, a man (assuming you were born one )afraid of his own shadow. Were, i nearer, i would put you down to save oxygen.

    Now run along, back to your kernel, lap dog-in-chief. There’s another boner, awaiting your masterful performance. Hope you choke on it. Dirt bag!

  264. Thats a different point and one I have alluded to already dude. See above ^^ at 10.51pm

  265. Our expectations are not the same as Wigan though,are they?
    You cant spent £500 million on a new stadium and £500 million on the team as the other 3 have done in the last 5 years.
    People seem to be forgetting the enormousness of what we have done in moving.

  266. Oh and as for the choice bit. Thats a matter for conjecture. There are those who say we have loads of cash and choose not to spend it and then there’s another train of thought that we dont actually have any cash and have to raise funds through player sales etc.

  267. Well BS That is not very nice .now is it?

  268. George have you been felating Bill again?

  269. Bs its not my fault you set a trap and ended up in it.

  270. I think Borges has been at the Domestos again!

  271. I dont know Dex.I am awaiting instructions to see what my opinion is tonight.Can you give me some directions?

  272. He seems a excitable chap.does he not?
    A bit mean spirited if you ask me.

  273. “Clearly, a man (assuming you were born one )afraid of his own shadow. Were, i nearer, i would put you down to save oxygen.”

    Were you nearer you would say fuck all .Like all internet keyboard warriors.

  274. George here is tonight’s opinion; Arsenal have billions to spend and choose not to, they are ripping all us fans off they are keeping cesc prisoner in the boot of Pat Rice’s VW Camper van and Peter Hill Wood eats the flesh of dead babies.

  275. George what have you been saying now?

  276. you didnt use the chimp word again did you?

  277. No It was “chump” this time Duke .Dont you start . 🙂

  278. Yeah George, what exactly did you say to Borges to piss him off so much?

  279. He asked who we thought was better ,Nasri or Young.When we all said Samri he said that United were going to pay Young £130k + PW .and therfor as we thought Nasri was better ,then he should get more .I then said this…………
    But Arsenal is not United.I dont follow your logic.Or lack of it even
    then this
    United pay Rooney £250k per week.He is not as good as Rvp .Shall we pay Robin £251k?or Cesc. £252 because he is better still.?
    Or should we offer Ade. £150 k to come back.Because City give him £140k?
    Where does it end?

    He seems to have taken exception to it .Abit of an over reaction I suggest.

  280. And you got that response from THAT? Woah! Calm down Borges mate!

  281. Ha Ha, DG. I see you’re carrying out Pz’s duties, of making us laugh. Glad, that you stepped up to the task, though it does make you look like a doomer child sometimes.

  282. Borges Spinelli

    george rodger | June 15, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    But Arsenal is not United.I dont follow your logic.Or lack of it even.

    george rodger | June 15, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    WTF another creep.
    Is is catching ?

    You gotta nerve to call me a “Creep” and wimpishly imply that I’m unintelligent. If you’re weasel enough to cheap shots. Be a weasel, great enough to endure my wrath.

  283. battle!

  284. Borges ,read this
    Dexter | June 15, 2011 at 9:10 pm
    Pffft, is that the best you got Timothy?

    You dont see anyone else fawning over others comments like you were earlier;

    “Ooh Bill, I dont know how you do it, you are sooooo wonderful.”

    Hahahahaha! What a creep.

    Dexter and I have an on going joke ,he calls me obtuse and I call him creepy.

    It was nothing to do with you.I did not call you anything.

    Now where did I imply you are unintelligent?
    Was it pointing out the stupidity of your little trap as regards Nasri and Young?

    Anyway you are wrong and very rude.

    This is unrelated to the comment below.

    And Borges, stop with the empty threats. Show him the wrath.

  286. William,given what I do for a living calling me a coward might be a bit foolhardy.
    But then he is not my fb friend and does not know, 🙂

  287. Be a weasel, great enough to endure my wrath.


  288. Borges Spinelli

    Back to your kernel, George.


    Textual wrath. No empty threat contained in that.

  289. Yes. I know. I was awaiting your textual wrath. You posted it yet?

  290. So you are wrong,go off on one and you think that is OK?
    What sort of a man are you?
    When I make a mistake I at least have the decency to own up to it.

  291. Since you guys are discussing Left-back – Abidal, for me is the best left back in the world at this moment. Before the operation he was our most consistent player. Those who be-little Abidal should also understand that he could be very handy as a central defender. I do agree that he more of a defensive minded left back but he is still good with passing and can create chances while going upfront. In Barca system, where Alves will be mostly playing upfront – its always better to have Abidal. Another factor which helps Abidal is that he is very quick considering that he is a defender.

    ” In fact Abidal is the WORST by some considerable distance on that list.” – No idea why this guy is commenting like this. Tell me a single mistake Abidal did with Barcelona this season. Do not pass a judgement just because you doesn’t like the player. In that list Abidal is the one with real quality, I still agree that others would be more offensive minded than Abidal.

    As far as Marcelo is considered, he is one of the most offensive minded left-back out there. But then he really was crap in the first clasico. It was only after Mourinho started to employ a very defensive minded team – he started to show his worth. That means he was getting enough cover.

  292. Bibin

    Its why Clichy gets a lot of criticism. He is always in a very advanced position, probably averaging the highest out of all the left backs in the premiership, so he is bound to get caught out on occasion if we don’t retain the ball. People on here are using his exceptional athleticism against him presuming that is the only part to his game. This is a LB with the best interceptions and tackling rate in the Premiership, I see many parts of his game which are far superior too most LB’s in world football. I won’t bother listing them again day after day in silly season.

  293. Abidal is a solid defender, doesn’t he play more often than not at CB nowadays ?? The last few times I have seen him for France and Barca he played there.

  294. He played in centra defense because we had Puyol injured and he was teh safest bet. The idea of two flying full backs is great. But only problem is that against quality sides you can’t afford to have two of them rushing forward. That means your defense will get exposed every time a counter is launched.

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