First Signing Of Summer, Transfer Madness & Gossip

Arsenal’s first signing of the summer transfer window was one that had been known about for some time. Carl Jenkinson joined the club from Charlton with pleasantries exchanged between his former and new employers. And it has been used as an indication of Arsenal’s lack of ambition under Wenger, despite the player being signed as cover at full back.

The transfer window is a time for lunacy. This summer is no exception despite forthcoming stringent financial regulations and challenging economic decisions. Yesterday saw two reported fees of astonishing levels, Arsenal prepared to meet one of them. Despite this, the meltdown of some Arsenal supporters continued unabated.

Get. A. Grip.

We are just into the second week of June and whilst time passes quickly, we are not at the end of the transfer window. Wenger finds himself damned if he does try to spend the money, damned if he does not, damned even more when it is on a centre back who has played less than a full season of Premier League matches.

I fall into the latter category. Not the damning point but I just don’t see Jones as the right player for Arsenal now. The defence does not require a youthful injection, there are enough players learning or finessing their trade as it is. An experienced organiser and leadership figure is a short-term requirement.

And the fee, the fee, the fee. £16m. When considered with Jordan Henderson’s reported fee of £20m and football is insane. For £36m, you get two players with a combined total of 1 senior cap for England, 17 caps at U21/U20/U19, 105 EPL appearances, 4 FAC, 9 CC and none in Europe. Total: 136 appearances. That works out at £147k per appearance. Before wages. It is nonsensical.

Even allowing for the premium which must be paid for English players, the fees do not make sense. Dalglish has money to spend, new owners willing to invest heavily but the well from he draws his transfer funds is finite. Since taking managerial reins, he has spent over £80m on three players alone. How many more can he buy?

The pressure is on him to deliver silverware for that kind of investment. Whilst the need for Liverpool to invest heavily is undeniable, their squad will still be threadbare in-depth which suggests that the money spent is not necessarily being used wisely.

Equally, United are investing heavily in a player who will presumably be sitting on the bench for the next couple of seasons? Unless Ferguson believes that Jones will replace Ferdinand or Vidic. Yes, he will allow rotation but with Chris Smalling at the club already, it seems as if the spending spree is happening now before Uefa’s regulations prevent it altogether in United’s case.

Even if Jones is used in midfield, you cannot disguise the fact that it is an awful lot of money for an inexperienced player. Indicative that United have problems make the homegrown squad quota perhaps?

It cuts Arsenal’s options by one. The Mirror believe Arsène has been talking with Chris Samba (£12m) and Gary Cahill (£15m). Of the two, I would relucantly take the latter although if he is to buy a central defender with Premier League experience, Jagielka is still my favourite.

That said, Arsenal are willing to spend €17m on a forward who has a scoring record of 1 goal every 4 games although in Gervinho’s time at Lille, his record has improved to a goal every other game. The suspicion is that more than half the fee is going to be used to resolve the issue of the widest centre parting in football.

The quotes must be treated suspiciously for they were not in the third person. I had cued up a joke about how RvP would need the first half of the season off to recuperate from the shock of not being injured. Then this happened and somehow tempting fate did not seem so funny after all. With Kieran Gibbs injured, I’m going to lay off of international football.

Elsewhere, Arsenal reportedly tried to sign Brad Freidel which may be true but is a good way of putting doubt into Szczesny’s mind. But he is impervious to doubt, laughs in the face of ridicule and swats away the insults of the media.

Oh, and Sport in Spain today runs with a huge front cover on Cesc. So confident are they that they have yet to put the story online, so truthful is it that none of the other media has run with it.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on June 9, 2011, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 410 Comments.

  1. These prices are insane. Here in India we are reeling under food price inflation. In UK, it looks like football players price inflation.

  2. Professional football will eat itself.

  3. I still don’t understand why football administrators doesn’t wake up to the harsh realities of the world. The funniest part is that they dont even have to look else where to see the whole thing undoing – Spain, Portugal and Greece are all struggling to keep their economies straight and declaring all type of austerity measures and in football they are having gala time splurging cash!!

  4. @clash

    In India you could afford a Vindaluis Nani couldn’t you? But not a Chicken Fabremadras!

    The world of football has gone totally insane, Wenger knows this and has bought a little gem with Carl Jenkinson at about £1m…. same age as Phil Jones but less experience of course. I think that Samba is very much on the cards…. but I’m trying not to get into speculation.

  5. Professional football will eat all of my money first though 😦

  6. i agree with YW on Jagielka.

  7. I do not believe the prices being paid for unproven stars just because they are English. FFS is Henderson worth 3 Van Der Vaarts?

    It is madness and I really hope that whilst we are being screamed at to make marquee signings I hope we refuse to be drawn into these stupid prices. Had Wenger stumped up the reported 17M for Jones I am sure the fans who have been calling for him to spend money would have been saying he was wasting it.

  8. Interestingly the Jagielka story has gone very quiet no word on any interest in him from anyone.

  9. The obscenity about football today is the realisation that a top guy’s weekly wage is probably more than an average Thirdworlder could earn in a lifetime of work.
    The disparity was never always like that. Where did things go wrong?

  10. I am pissed off with some of these stupid blogs listing that the mugsmashers spent £20M Manure spent £17M and we spent £1M like we are penny-pinching. It is just anti-Wenger bullshit that has no bearing on reality. If the window had just closed then this is an accusation that could be levelled at the club but not now. We have just signed a reserve player with potential it does not mean we wont be buying anyone else.

    But Lets also be honest Henderson isn’t in the same league as Wilshire or Ramsey.

  11. Nicky, it would take me 6.5 years to earn what Cesc does in 1 week!! It is a joke really.

  12. The world’s gone crazy. Here I was wondering what the heck Manure and ‘Pool where up to, only to hear we are also part of the fun? Thank goodness the player chose man utd. I agree with YW that an another inexperienced center back is the last thing we need, especially at that price. Is this Jones character that much better than Bartley?

    I find it hard to believe that we actually bid 16 mil. It means we were ready to break our transfer record for an untested english CB! Why? Are we in any danger of not meeting the home grown requirements?

  13. @drew10
    If we could only go back to 1939/45 (without the War). Then the maximum footballer’s wage was set at £2.50 a week! LOL.

  14. Bid accepted for Jones but he opted for united. I would still take Samba over both Cahill and Jagielka. Welcome to Carl, just hope he has a better future than a certain Havard Nordtveit

  15. Quick comment. Haven’t finished reading yet. Agree with everything tip the dalglish bit.
    He might have spent lot of money already, but most of it was taken from Torres fees. So as a net spent, to get Suarez and Carroll was not a bad deal while look at how we spent Adebayor’s, Henry and Hleb’s money.
    Where are the replacement? -> youngsters again.
    Youngsters themselves like Jones will also stop coming. So many of them, what tells them they’ll allget a chance like Walctt or Wilshere?
    We had to loan out 15 players this season.
    Evey signing should already be sorted.
    You can not just wait the last minute again. We have Asian tours, emirates cup, CL qualif. There will be no time for players to settle in if he doesn’t buy quick, and all his targets will be snapped by other clubs that will pay more. Just look at previous seasons for pete’s sake mr wenger.

    Buying 2x8m players or 2×16 I stead of a world class player for 20-30m is just totally insane.

  16. “Buying 2x8m players or 2×16 I stead of a world class player for 20-30m is just totally insane.”

    And what happens if that World Class player gets injured? 23-30 million wasted. Far better 4×8 million.

    Good read YW.

  17. Just read this on le-grove. Thought it was funny as hell….

    # Ivan. Are you aware Arsene Wenger is not who he says he is? Yes, he was brought up in a little village in Alsace-Lorraine – but it wasn’t in the comfortable environs of a country pub, under the loving guidance of two well grounded parents…
    BUT the cold concrete halls of the local Jesuit Temple under the strict and austere control Jesuit General Tamburini. During these formative years Arsene Wenger (who was born Herbert Von Finkelstein Strumpelhumper II) was bathed in all the teachings of the Eastern Mystery Schools. He learned how to bellydance on a tightrope under the glow of a full moon; he learned how to speak to north african mongooses; he also learned how to play tippy tappy football in the artic circle with half drunk polar bears and mischievous penguins.
    This man has only one goal – and it is to destroy football with non effective, non threatening, non event football. And you like that dont you Ivan. You dirty cunt.

  18. Henristic

    Please do not post crap from LG. If I wanted to read it I would go there but I don’t.

  19. YW. I’ve just watched the two footed, studs up, tackle on RVP. Do you know if he was injured?

  20. Alex Ice Cream

    Jordan Henderson has hardly done anything yet cost 20m. I wouldn’t sell Cesc who is the best in the world (yes better than Xavi and Iniesta they just play in a much better team) for any less than a world record fee. Barca can’t afford it so I would settle reluctantly for 60m.

    Can’t get excited about the new signing – another kid who may or may not make it and won’t feature in the first team for a couple of years at least.

    Our wage bill accordign to Deloitte’s is 21m less than ManUs. I know who gets the better value. Manu have a squad packed with winners while we line the pockets of nobodies who have achieved nothing to the tune of millions. AW needs to start swinging the axe to these players, not award them new contracts.

  21. Ditto that dupsffokcuf. I for one do not intend to ever go there so pasting their drivel here is totally unwelcome.

  22. If Jones goes for £16m then Cahill is surely worth £15m (according to The Mirror). I’m sure we have that much for a fairly experienced Premier League defender. It won’t be much use unless we can organise ourselves better at set-pieces though.

    I’m not all gone on signing Jagielka, a decent player, but too similar too Vermaelen and Koscielny IMHO.

    @Bernard, no, Robin wasn’t injured.

  23. mumbai gooner

    Lunacy of the highest order it is…long live wenger for his sane purchases

  24. Bernard

    Given he was up offering his view on the challenge afterwards, I’m guessing he’s OK. I think he was twittering last night about his holidays so presumably no issues.

    YW

  25. No Le Grove stuff please. Those people are the ultimate killjoys.

  26. RVP was fine, he played on and took a pen in the shootout – his worst pen ever though 🙂

  27. The more I read about Carl Jenkinson the more I like the signing. Over 6ft can play anywhere across the defence and in midfield.

    Welcome to The Arsenal Carl.

  28. Goonerwife,
    its because you take them too seriously. Better to think of them as clowns. You know, grown-ups acting like muppets for a few laughs? Sometimes it comes off, sometimes it doesn’t. 🙂

  29. If Arsene actually said he was looking to sign taller players (as apparently quoted), then Jagielka wouldn’t make a whole load of sense, as he is not that tall for a CH, about 5’11” apparently.

    He is also quite similiar in style to TV and LK.

    I would much prefer Cahill, I am suprised by the reluctance of some on here to him, every time I have seen him he looks strong in the tackle and in the air, is actually pretty handy on the ball and chips in with a few goals.

    He also has plenty of experience, and at 26, is coming into his prime.

    At the prices being bandied around now, £15M for Cahill would be a very good deal.

  30. mumbai gooner

    AIC

    Any thoughts on where to swing the axe and how much we can save…

    Care to share some data

  31. Well at least we can all feel good that we are active in the market and that’s all I have been moaning about for a couple of years now. The media are have well published the fact that utd purchased a “big money signing” but, aren’t as keen to publish the fact that he made a choice to go to utd instead of Arsenal.

    No big thing because players have chosen Arsenal over utd in the past. 99.9% of the stories on Arsenal is total shit regurgitated and tweaked and spewed out again. Wenger is nicely going about what he can to make us strong and yes I want to see a couple more come in but, not with those prices unless it’s a top quality player. Utd debts plus the fees they are paying out are too much of a gamble I would never like to see out take.

  32. It will be worth watching the French game tonight against Poland. Firstly ofcourse, because our own Chezzers and Sagna will be playing. But secondly, two players to watch in the French side, Gameiro and Marvels Martin.
    French papers today are saying both may be available for transfer. Gameiro has a year left on his contract at Lorient and Sochaux are saying they would sell Martin if they had an offer of €10m or there abouts… thats euros! so less in pound notes.
    Also in French papers a rumour from Catalunya Radio saying that Barca have a pre-agreement for Cesc…… and apparently his agent is in Catalogne to finalise the transfer! Only saying what the papers say…

  33. mumbai gooner

    Tnx for the link dupsffokcuf

  34. 21m less and within a couple of points for 8 months. We’re going about things the right way, we’re very close. This team could’ve won the league last season, it certainly can this season. Just need to add the finishing touches. A team of young players is only going one way and that’s up.

    Cheers for that, dups. I think Jenkinson is a great buy too. Similar path to Chris Smalling, only we’re getting in there early like Fulham did, not Larry Latecomer milked over-the-odds like the two Northern clubs.

  35. Cheers dups, interesting to get a decent opinion of Jenkinson. While I don’t mind us building up young talent, the “He may lack experience and be a little tactically naïve, but four seasons at Arsenal’s London Colney facility could well be enough to sharpen him up.” comment is illuminating, anyone expecting him to be around the first team next season (I doubt there’s many) may be disappointed. Alongside these signings of potential we do need one or two who will make a difference to the first team immediately.

  36. The price of some English players is beyond ridiculous, £20 million of Crane who has yet to really do anything apart from establish himself in a middle table team is laughable. I don’t think 16 million for Jones is as bad though, as a quality English centre back is worth their weight in gold (how important were Tony Adams and Sol Campbell in the Arsenal title winning teams).
    Considering that we spent 10-12 million on novice Koscienly, I would be happy to spend £16-17 million on a quality English centre back.

  37. longblackcloud

    Since we are having to pay a premium for English players as we are an English club, does that mean a Spanish side should pay an additional premium for any Spainish players they wished to purchse?

  38. IvoryGoonz | June 9, 2011 at 8:56 am

    I want to see top quality too but, I don’t want to see us splashing out 30 million on 1 fucking player are you nuts? There are players out there who we can get who have the quality for less than that and our current squad do not need a massive overhaul it needs tweaking and a couple of new faces I think.

    Gervinho, does have the forehead of a Klingon but, he is built for Premiership action and I think he would be legend at Arsenal if it happens and he won’t anywhere near the figures you quoted.

    Samba, does the job and has a fearsome look about him and put’s his body on line. I do like Cahill also and would be happy if any of them came.

  39. For me the biggest positives about Jenkinson are his versatility and the fact that he and his whole family are Arsenal supporters!

  40. longblackcloud

    They generally do. It’s a principle that works the world over.

    YW

  41. Koscielny is streets ahead of Phil Jones. Jones is one for the future. A season or two on from Jenkinson – but representing far more of a gamble at that price. Nationality of course has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

  42. Haha, yes LBC. Especially ones that are ready made for their system. Cesc is a one off for Barcelona – a guaranteed perfect fit on and off the pitch, so that should bump his price up by another £10 million. Haha, Culo’s going to do his nut again!

  43. theBigM, I’d be surprised if Koscielny fee was over 10 million. More like 8 mate, where are you getting 12?

  44. We signed Kos for £8.25M what a bargain that is looking like now!

  45. All this talk of signing English, sod it we have loads of young English talent in the ranks. I don’t care if they come from Mars as long as they are quality and WANT to play for THE ARSENAL!

  46. Limpar Assist – Is Jones more of a gamble? He has premier league experience, unlike Kos who had barely even much any Ligue 1 experience. Does nationality not have anything to do with it? It’s interesting that Chelsea and Man U (particularly Man U) have always tried to maintain an English/British core and are more successful for it. We do play in the English league, so why bring in second-rate French defenders (Sagna apart).

  47. Alex Ice Cream

    Mumbai,

    How about the following: Eboue, Denilson, Rosicky, Squilacci, Diaby, Bendtner, Almunia, Vela, Clichy

    I don’t know what they earn but whatever it is its too much for most of these players. Let’s say their wages average 40k a week or 2m a year – that’s 18m a year on these jokers! These are rough and ready figures but they give you an idea.

    Not excited by Gervinho either. Why are we constantly looking at the French league – its SH!TE.

    Not that bothered about Jones either – 19 and 5’11 we need someone taller and more experienced.

  48. Big M your argument falls down when you look at the invincible’s that team would wipe the floor with this current manure side even with their “English backbone”

  49. we spent 8 million on kos.Wasnt it actually 7.5 or so. Stop infalting the price. now its 10-12 million. its been getting higher by the day just you can proove Kos is shit.

  50. mumbai gooner

    longblack cloud..cheeky one mate..then csec is worth 100mil

  51. Well, now Kos has 1 year experience and you cant take that way from him.

  52. Kos is quality!!!!!! Thus ends that debate!

  53. thats right!!!

  54. mumbai gooner

    AIC

    Mostly probably 3 or 4 from your list are on their way out..so we will reduce wages over there

    And I do agree about jones

  55. Alex ice Cream – We reason why we are always looking at Ligue 1 are that the players are relatively cheap and tend to have a level of skill that players in the championship, for example do not have.
    However, there is quite a difference in quality between the PL and Ligue 1 so there is always a gamble that these players will not make the grade.

  56. Morning one and all. I would claim to have missed you but that would be a lie.

    Big M, regarding nationality of core, your logic has one fundamental flaw: the source population. Given that most teams in the premier league currently have (and for most of their history always had) an English core, this fact doesn’t lend itself to the conclusion you’ve drawn, which is such is necessary for success. It could well be that having English is indeed necessary, but there actually isn’t enough evidence to say for certain

  57. DREW 10 – The invincibles had two English players in their backline, no? Including a certain mr Sol Campbell. Would we have done it without him at the back?

  58. Alex Ice Cream | June 9, 2011 at 10:34

    Eboue – Like it or not he’s priceless in my view as any player at any level with the ability to play anywhere on pitch is a talent in itself. Not only that he actually loves playing for his club. Yes he makes some fuck ups but, which player doesn’t? He offers a lot to the team and the fact that he was still prepared to turn out after the treatment he received from some so called fans earned my respect.

    Denilson – career stalled. No pace. Sell.
    Rosicky – For whatever reasons he hasn’t done anything in years to justify him being here. Sell.
    Clichy – Get replacement and Sell.
    Squilacci – Looked out of his depth but, get him up to speed and judge him next season.
    Bendtner, Almunia – Should of been gone last year.
    Vela – Not given a proper chance yet.
    Diaby – You must be fucking crazy.

    And who would you like to see replace said players and for how much?

  59. sh@ longblackcloud… ala spanish players for the maximum charge,
    thats a good one. LOL

  60. Just been watching this video of Willian who we are apparently going to do a swap deal with Denilson for. Looks perfect for us, loads of tricks, doesn’t shoot and when he does he hits the post!

    The Only way I can see us signing this gut is if Cesc is gone and Nasri will be playing in the middle!

  61. If there is a premium on English players, why sign them? The problem is that most English players are brought up to play hoofball (full size pitches from age 10, encouraging “strong” tackles, power and pace used to describe a good player rather than technical skill), so they are generally technically inferior to most other players from around the world.

    If anything, we should only look abroad and sign young players who will eventually become homegrown (like Fabregas Denilson, Senderos)

  62. If that wasn’t clear, I meant £16 million on Jones is more of a gamble than £1 million on Carl Jenkinson.

    Phil Jones is a good prospect, bit clumsy if you ask me, but his touch will get better I suppose. One for the future.

    If you think Laurent Koscielny is a 2nd rate defender than I’m afraid there’s no hope left for you at all and I’m not going to waste time talking football with someone so clueless. Sorry.

    I’d like to see Phil Jones try and pocket Rooney like Koscielny did the other month. Oh wait, I have seen him try and it ended 7-1. I suspect Jones v Messi might be RSC.

  63. @alex ice cream at 10.34am

    “Why are we constantly looking at the French leaague – its SHITE.”

    Alex lighten up mate, Thierry Henry, Patrick Viera, Pires, Nasri, Sagna, Petit, etc etc…… they all came from a shit league? France is one of the best hunting grounds for quality players at reasonable prices.

  64. Drew, if Cesc goes I can see us adapting our formation rather than trying to fill his position. Van Persie dropping deeper.

    Which of the young reserves will be in the first team next year? Frimpong looks a sure thing. Sanchez Watt is at a stage where he could either break in or look for a move. JET must be running out of patience.

    How would people feel about us promoting JET to the first team if Bendtner leaves rather than spending on a replacement?

  65. Gadget – I’m not saying that having an English backbone is necessary for success, but if a quality English centre back is available I want us to buy, even if he is a bit expensive (i.e. 17 million). I think this money well spent

  66. drew, buddy, you’re watching the wrong vid…. he’s actually quite find of a shot or two!

    Sounds a bit like another agent giving it the big one to me but he’s an excitng player. Would certainly make a mug of Phil Jones 😉

  67. Drew10,

    Well put my friend.

  68. Limpar – not realy talking about Kos he has undoubted potential, although he made plenty of mistakes last year, but French greats such as Clichy, Cygan, Silvestre and Squillaci

  69. After Deloitte report today on Premier League’s wage spend last season (which incidentally Chelsea top once again), Robert Peston, BBC Business Editor comments “There is a clear correlation between survival in the top rank and a willingness and ability to pay those humungous players’ salaries” .

    Says it all really.

  70. @theBigM

    You mean like Pennant, Jeffers and Hoyte?

  71. You may have elaborated already Big M, and if so, please forgive my ignorance, but I have been incommunicado for a long time, but why would it be money well spent?

  72. It’s fucking harsh on Clichy to lump him in that group, BigM. A little too early for Squillaci as well.

  73. On the wage structure and jazz, I wonder how UEFA’s financial fair play regualtions will effect player demands like Nasri’s. Anyone care to have a crack?

  74. What the fuck does Pascal Cygan have to do with anything? He retired last week.

  75. This values for half decent untried English/British players is a real worry. If Cesc goes, which I hate to admit but, i believe to be a reality this summer, say we get £35m what the be-jesus can you get for that – Karl Henry!

  76. It’s amazing. If Jones has choosen us, everyone on here would have been lapping it up.

    Wenger bid for him. That must make him the perfect fit right?

    Why do we think Jones snubbed Arsenal???

  77. For the hate-list writers,

    Health spared, I’d wager that Diaby sets the EPL alight next season. Sell him and Clichy? No, no, no!

  78. Gadget

    They won’t affect Nasri’s demands. In fact the regulations are so loose that a club could continually make a loss but provided that it is reducing year-on-year and part of a sustained process of returning to profitability, they will be allowed to continue in the Champions League.

    The canny club could turn in losses every year but under the regulations some costs are excluded so they may be able to turn in a profit. Best not to pin our hopes on too much sanity in football.

    YW

  79. Also, surely we should look at signing more English players. There was an interesting article on Le Grove last week (stop laughing) which highlighted our problem with adhering to quotas.

    Our strategy of signing young foreigners for the last 6 years has not reaped dividends, and the majority of them want out now, we should have more players who have a better understanding of the passion of the English game.

    Wilshere was our players of the season last year. You wouldnt expect such an accolade to bestowed upon a teenage debutant considering the prestigious, experienced and talented company he found himself him no?

  80. Dgob.

    If there was anyway we could place a bet, I would, 1000000000% bet you Diaby does nothing of the sort.

  81. Luke

    Actually we might be happy that a new defender had arrived but I think many, myself included, would question his lack of experience.

    Why did he snub Arsenal? Chance to win honours? No need to move home – at 19, a big thing? No desire to live in London? Bigger wage packet? Scared of saying no to Ferguson? More chance of first XI football? Likes the United away kit more than ours? Manchester United fan as a youth? It’ll come out.

    YW

  82. Maa2aaditya – “If there is a premium on English players, why sign them?

    Because a strong English centre back could help us progress a great deal as we play in the ENGLISH league, so why not sign one?

    “The problem is that most English players are brought up to play hoofball (full size pitches from age 10, encouraging “strong” tackles, power and pace used to describe a good player rather than technical skill), so they are generally technically inferior to most other players from around the world”

    A rather cliched view of English football and what is wrong with “power and pace”, don’t the Germans play with plenty of power and pace and they have won plenty of honours.

    “If anything, we should only look abroad and sign young players who will eventually become homegrown (like Fabregas Denilson, Senderos)”

    Nonsense, why can’t we develop our own players and get them to play our way like Wilshere or GIbbs for example. Denilson and Senderos were hardly great sucesses at Arsenal, were they.

  83. Winning the PL is still not worth throwing 50k a week on a player like Jones. We have already agreed on the fact Denilson and Bendy got to much too soon. So why repeat that fault with other young prospects. Besides jones is from Blackburn, lives at home, has all his mates up there, why on earth would he want to move down south? Not everyone are as brave as Smallig or Bartely. Some people like scholes wanna stay close to home. You have to accept that a18 year old boy may not be ready to move away from family and friends.After all they are only kids. He will like Smalling sit on the bench and win the league while cashing in 50k a week. Not bad I say…

  84. “Nonsense, why can’t we develop our own players and get them to play our way like Wilshere or GIbbs for example.”

    Well done BigM. You both introduced and defeated your own argument in one sentence. Impressive.

  85. We have to sign 16-year-olds from around England abroad to supplement the academy intake every year. As has already been said, we’re fighting it out with a load of other clubs for the best youngsters in the Greater London area. There simply aren’t enough to go round. Szcesny, Djourou, Cesc, Bartley, Coquelin, Walcott and many others all joined the club at around this stage.

  86. “england AND abroad”

  87. YW – True, I would have felt the same, but that’s our transfer strategy so I am accustomed to it now. I think he is very talented footballer. It’s good to see that Wenger has recognised the chips are down, and that sometimes in football, you have to pay market price, regardless of how inflated that is.

    His eye is up and his cheque book open. I’m more happy we’ve bid (and with some welly) than actually landing the player.

    If AW continues this approach throughout the window, I do not doubt we will sign the required quality.

  88. If we go into the season with Vermaelen, Koscielny, Djourou, Squilacci & Bartley, is that such a bad thing?

    I feel it was wrong to sell Nordtveit mid season, but I don’t think we need any more centre-backs.

    I know Denilson wants out, but if our first choice trio in midfield is Song + Wilshere + Fabregas, wouldn’t Denilson + Ramsey + Diaby be the best second choice midfield in the world? And all thre of them are fluid around midfield, it would be fantastic to have such backups.

    There is NO WAY IN HELL we should sell Bendtner. Guy’s only 23. At 23, van Persie wasn’t scoring as much as he is now. Plus, name me 5 strikers who are 24 or under, and better than Bendtner. He has this ability where he somehow always manages to be in space. Granted, he’s not a great finisher, but that can be learned with practice. Finding space is much harder to learn, and self confidence is something you just have to have.

  89. Poodle,

    I’m pretty sure you were fairly agressive to me when I suggested that Denilson and Bendtner were on inflated wages. I see you have adopted that stance to criticse the two signings at United.

    Smalling will play more than Rio this year, and he is a very very good CB. He looks more assured /less error prone than our last summers recruits. Perhaps thats partly due to playing next to Vidic and in front of VDS though.

  90. What a wonderfully shrewd move by Arsene, perfect I would say, touche, hats off and all that. Firstly, one considers Arsene’s record of purchases to know that he is not much of a risk taker and satisfies himself that a player is of acceptable level and attributes. Recent premium buys: Kos, Chamakh, Arshavin, Vermaelen, Ramsey, Nasri all confirm this. I’m not sure when Fabianski and Chewie came but only re-confirm. Recent ‘supplementary’ buys are predictably less convincing: Skillacci, Campbell, Lehmann etc …

    Jenkinson falls in between and no doubt would have been watched and followed for some time. Excellent, excellent … Wenger is thinking 2 seasons ahead.

    Personally, I would opt for Samba now, but let’s see (given availability).

  91. the BigM “why can’t we develop our own players and get them to play our way…” i thought thats what we are doing??

  92. Denilson + Ramsey + Diaby be the best second choice midfield in the world?

    —————–

    Are you joking?

  93. No I just cannot se how one can justify 59k a week on a prospect like Jones and at the same time be shocked and agry about how our young talents( cos that us what denilson was until he’s progress stalled ) earn the same amount. Jones IMO is not a bigger talent than say Bendy was at age19.

  94. WE have had more succesful french guys than not BigM. clichy is just shit now isnt he? some people just dont deserve a good thing.

  95. I agree with ma2aaditya on all points.

    Except Diaby will be pushing Wilshere more for that first choice spot in midfield.

  96. @theBigM

    Yes, we can train English players. That’s why we shouldn’t sign them for 12-15mil when a foreign player costs 8mil.
    And yes, the Germans also play with pace and power, but that is in addition to good technical skill. The majority of English players ignore that.
    I’m not saying that there are NO talented English players out there. I’m just saying, the odds are stacked in favour of getting foreign players as they offer more.
    Oh, and Djourou and Bendtner are homegrown as well

  97. mumbai gooner

    Limpar @ 10.57

    I wud luv to see jones Vs messi

  98. Jabba's delights

    At the end of the day i think its a good thing Jones opted for Utd. I havent seen loads of him but Wenger has said before he rated him highly. However we dont need another ball playing short cb. We have TV5 who is very good Kosciellny who has shown potential. We lack a tall cb with TV5 aggression then we will have a set of 4 that compliment each other very very well.

    Jones can also play Midfield and Utd were chasing Rodwell for ages but his price probably kept on rising both would have been gambles, arsenal cannot afford to bring in another inexperienced defender.

    Cahill or Samba its as simple as that i think. Jagielka is more of the same although his leadership and attitude could improve us. We need someone who favourite past time is physical battles and winning world championship heading contests.

  99. I’d love one of the Diaby haters to explain exactly why he is shit.

    “Lets get rid of him and get in a Vieira-type midfielder”. Idiots.

  100. Exactly, Clay. Isn’t that what some fans hate Wenger for trying to do? What with this gargantuan wage bill that’s preventing us from signing real starts like Lorik Cana, Quaresma and Miguel Veloso…

  101. In other words if you are willing to pay Jones 50k a week as a huge talent aged19. How can you moan about Bendtner being on the same? That said, , there is a reason why AW wanted both Smalling and Jones they are good prospects. Very good indeed.
    Hopefully Bartely will be just as good. Are there any other young English defenders as good as Smalling and jones out-there except for Bartely ATM? Idunno. Bartely just like Smalling already has trophys to his name.

  102. I think Wenger would have been slaughtered if he paid that amount of money on such an inexperienced player, irrespective of his nationality. Strange how we are reported to have had a similar bid accepted. Tbh I haven’t seen the guy play much but he must be good??

    Limpar

    Sorry didn’t get back to ya yesterday. That video of Theo against Spurs was a perfect example of how effective he can be coming in from the right. There’s some games however we he is stuck solely on the right touchline and you can see his defensive responsibilities prevent him from hitting the central attacking areas. Maybe a tweak to our central midfield area will allow him to advance a bit frequently to central areas over the course of the 90mins.

    I still like the idea also of trying him in front of Chamakh or Van Persie. All depends on the opposition though and if Wenger sees Theo as the one to provide that cutting edge to our intricate passing style. We know hes got the pace and finishing ability, but how will it fair against a team with 10 men behind the ball…

  103. That’s a great video, LA. Pep Guardiola also singled him out before the quarter final against Barcelona.

  104. Jabba's delights

    ma2aaditya

    Did you watch Arsenal play this year. We conceded 43 goals are defending was awful, so obvioulsy our cb’s didnt compliment each other that well. When vermalan was fit the previous year we conceded 41, something needs to change im afraid.

    One of our problems this year that there wasnt enough depth in midfield after the starting 3. Lets not start talking about Ramsey being the saviour until he does it on a consistent basis. I think he has bags of potential but at themoment thats what it is. He played great against utd then awfuly against stoke which is what you get from youngsters inconsistency……………..you win leagues by being consistent. Diaby has failed to show consistency for 4 years due to a multitude of factors, he cant be relied upon. Who backs up Song during ANC?

  105. Markus,

    I’d love to see you present a decent argument of why, if fully fit, Diaby will get anywhere near starting in front of Wilshere.

  106. If a first choice midfield looks like Cesc, Wilshere and Song; then a more physical second choice might well look like Frimpong, Ramsey, Diaby. Rosicky as super-sub and probably won’t start too many. Nasri an anytime flexible replacement to go central midfield. Eastmond or Landsbury may have something to say. It’s way too early, but Frimpong is an impressive young player on what little we’ve seen.

    I would rather Bendtner didn’t leave, but is a way he has to or his career will seriously stall. We will buy a striker to supplement RvP if we can, Theo may play more centrally anyway, and right now Chamakh looks far more composed.

  107. Jabba,

    Frimpong, Diaby, Wilshere, Ramsey, Eboue, Jenkinson, Eastmond, Vermaelen, Koscielny.

    Take your pick.

  108. I am grateful Yogi. I hadn’t realised UEFA’s propose regs were so ineffective in the short term. However, in theory, I suppose, it seems as though there should come a point where clubs are breaking even. Is that correct or do the regs remain utterly pointless?

  109. Markus | June 9, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Too right about JET. Angered me over the years as to why JET hasn’t had his chance yet when Bendtner, has done fuckall to justify his reason for being here for so long.

    Simpson, too should of had a proper chance to shine at Arsenal then maybe we would of seen him rise to the occasion. Well if your playing Bendtner, you could do no worse giving than a chance to others.

    And just to clarify earlier I meant if he thinks Diaby, to go he’s fucking nuts.

  110. Luke, I don’t have to make an argument for a player Wenger has indicated has what it takes. You assholes are the ones arguing against him.

  111. Jabba

    Its pretty silly to say Diaby has been inconsistent over 4 years with the amount of luck hes had with injuries. Even Cesc has had a ruined season or 2 due to injury problems.

    The guy has huge talent and has killed teams. Plus he has quite a few goals to his name. Next season could be the season where we can utilize him properly as we can rotate with Jack and Rambo to keep them all fresh.

    I think Wenger has the confidence needed to stick Jack and Rambo in any game now too.

  112. I think Ramsey’s inconsistency at the end of the season had little to do with his age and a lot to do with the injury he suffered.

    Yep, ZP. I think we can add Coquelin into that group as well. Actually I’m thrilled by the thought of Wilshere and Frimpong in partnership again. i think they were the midfield pair in the same teams from the age of nine. That has to be a good thing for us.

  113. Jabba's delights

    Markus

    One doesnt have to hate diaby to see that whilst being tremendously talented he hasnt been consistent for years. He is near 25 now not some kid. We cant afford to keep waiting for players to develope.

    Zimpaul

    Eastmond couldnt make the Millwall team and Lansbury fell out of favour at the business end of the year with Norwich these players arent ready to compete for us yet. We need better depth than we did this year in midfield no less

  114. Markus,

    Let’s look at that list shall we.

    First off, there is not one recognised defensive midfielder with any top league experience.

    You’ve picked two CB’s who have never played there, two youngsters who have never ever performed consistently at this level, a 19yr old utility defender who we signed yesterday and an erratic RB who should never be a holding midfielder, oh, and Frimpong will be going too.

    Does that not embarass you? That you have given a cock sure list, without one actual recognised DM in there? That you have cited 4 players who have never ever ever played in that position?

    We need a DM. Its bloody obvious, and has been for over a year.

  115. So Markus, what your saying is you can’t?

    Also, Wenger wont, and hasnt started Diaby over Wilshere. So that renders your original point void no?

  116. I think Wenger will regret allowing Bendtner to leave. He is the younger than Chamakh, he has a great scoring record for a 23 yr old, he has confidence – even if it seems a bit too much at times for some.

    I reckon he will score at any team he plays for. The problem is our formation, we need a more mobile type of CF to be able to link up the play and create chances. There is no better than Van Persie. Our formation is tailored around him, Cesc has firmly taken the back and our whole team is based on Van Persie trickery and ability to create a chance in the final 3rd when 10 players are around him!

    I think Bendtner will leave and we will sign a winger. That is my prediction. Allowing more game time up top for Theo and possibly another internal promotion.

  117. Jabba – “He is near 25 now not some kid. We cant afford to keep waiting for players to develope.”

    You are obviously one of them fans that boos every mistake Diaby makes, but ignores the ones the likes of Cesc make. Grow up and learn how to spell! he is a quality player. Probably the only player who went with France to the World Cup and came back with any pride.

  118. CG,

    Thank f**k VP is more than a mere mortal. Your right, we certainly need more fluid options up front. As for Bendtner, if he wants to leave, has the higher market value, and has a questionable attitude, we should get market premium for him.

    Personally, we only need he or Chamakh. I think Bendtner is a better striker, but with Chamakh on top dollar and only signed last year, his market value is far less.

  119. Jabba's delights

    ChrisGoona

    I appreciate what you are saying but im afraid this debate has been done to death about Diaby luck with injuries.

    He broke his ankle 4-5 years ago. Since then he pulls up with minor 1-2 week muscles pulls or strains constantly. I know of numerous sportsmen who have played through horrific injuries for there teams, diaby would be described as someone who cant play through pain in American sport, they evaluate their prospects to a much higher level phycologically than we do over here through the draft.

    I have no doubts about his talent. I feel we need a cool carm head in there though thats all. Look at the ages of our midfield squad.

    Cesc 23
    Wilshere 19
    Song 23
    Ramsey 20
    Diaby 24
    Frimpong 19

    Huge talent but where is the been there seen it all pro who can help them on and off the pitch in tough times.

  120. Luke, listen I disagree with 99% of the things you come out with. Let’s just leave it at that.

  121. ChrisGoona

    How did you come to that conclusion about Jabba? Tad harsh falsley accusing someone based on nothing.

    Also, he is dyslexic, stated on here many times, when his writing has been attacked, not his comments discussed.

    Do you abuse people who have difficulties reading?

  122. Had Vermaelen played last season, almost nobody would say we ‘desperately’ needed a CB. He would have started over 35 games, as per the previous season, otherwise started by Djourou or Skillacci, the weaker links. Still, to be effective across all cups we need six CBs, all ‘playable’ at almost any time:
    Verm/Kos
    Djou/somebody
    Bartley (is he coming back yet?)/Jenky

    One would guess that Bartley remains on loan somewhere, and Skillacci plays the #5 back-up role, and that ‘somebody’ comes in.

  123. Bendtner leaving would be good for him and the club. He needs to go to a club where he’s plays as a striker not a winger. A move may also improve his attiude

    Hopefully the signing of Jenkinson means we’ve seen the last of Eboue

  124. Jabba's delights

    Chrisgoona

    Chill out mate one can have differing oppinions over diaby without the need to be rude

  125. Curious tweet from The Best Right Back In The League:

    Sagnaofficial Bacary
    “Hello my friends..last day with the national team and someone u should follow..@CharlesNzo”

    Mmmm…*stir stir stir*

  126. Markus,

    Why can you not engage in a normal debate. I would love to know your reasons why:

    1. You think two CB’s and a RB (none of who have played at DM) can cover Song
    2. That 3 youngsters (never played consistently in the EPL, some never) can cover Song
    3. Wilshere, I would agree with. But it would upset the balance
    4. Ramsey is too attacking no?

    You know, you can say that we need a DM. Its not offending anyone.

  127. Sky Sports reporting that Ashley Young has had a meeting with Mancs Representatives already. While I agree the money they paid for Jones was excessive, I have to say I admire the way they get their “summer business” over early. If memory serves right, they did the same thing last season. I really do wish Arsene would do the same. Did he not promise he would?????

  128. Zimpaul

    Our defence was terrible the season before last when Gallas & TV pretty much finished every game. We have been over this before.

  129. “Yes, we can train English players. That’s why we shouldn’t sign them for 12-15mil when a foreign player costs 8mil”

    You are all missing the point. At the moment, we do not have the requisite quality at CB to cope with the ENGLISH premier league. All I am saying is that buying a cheaper foreign centre back with no PL experience is not necessarily the answer. Ok, a quality English CB like Cahil will cost more, but he is already used to the pace and physicality of the premiership so is more likely to offer us a solution NOW rather than in a few years. Perhaps, as the bid for Jones testifies, Arsene agrees.

  130. Luke- that reference to le grove is funny im sorry. But at least we know where you are coming from now.

    All this buy english. Have you guys not been paying attention to the world of football. I mean, i understand. if you are english you want to see the english guys succeeding in england. I get it. Most are just not good enough. And we dont really play bulldozer football.

    Im guessing thats the problem with alot of people and Wenger. they have convinced thamselves that he hates english somehow so he’s lost it, he’s this and that. He wont spend (other peoples money), so thats a reason for Quinny and saggers on talksport to ridicule him.

    I cant wait till we can shove our success down their throats.

  131. Unlike Jones Ashley Young is exactly the type of player we should be signing. I thought we should have bought him when he was at Watford. I’ll be sad to see him go to Man U

  132. Fuck off Luke.

    You can’t come on here slating an international player who has shown his class and being compared to the likes of Vieira. Let Jabba defend himself, you don’t need to hold his hand. I wouldn’t have criticized his spelling had I known that he ‘says’ hes dyslexic.

  133. Who would’ve thought that Wilshere could do anything he has done this season? At the beginning of last season Frimpong looked like the one that would become part of the first team squad while there was talk of sending Wilshere out on loan. Then Frimpong got injured, Wilshere was thrown into the deep and surprisingly. managed to swim quite well. There is no doubt in my mind about Frimpongs ability to perform, simply based on that Wenger would’ve trusted him last season to be a part and play in the first team squad.

  134. Markus – Your list of potential DM cover for Song is plain scarey, and illustrates 100% why we need another player to challenge/cover for that position.

    You have listed kids, a couple of full backs, and some central defenders. The 1st team midfielders you have mentioned are not really suited to playing that role. If we do not strengthen in that area, and god forbid Song gets a lengthy injury we would be in major trouble.

  135. Limpar, okay that shows him off a bit better, possible future Henry?

  136. Luke | June 9, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Dexter likes to abuse people who work in Mac Donalds so take it on the chin and move on.

  137. Jabba's delights

    thebigm

    Spot on and wenger has actually come out and said we need someone who has premiership experience at the back. In different leagues you need different solutions. Wenger is now saying what many ”idiots, stupid hater pundits, all the f^cking press that despise us” have been saying for years.

  138. Goonerwife.

    I don’t suppose you had the courtesy to actually read the post? Course not.

    It was written by a guest writer, and was interesting regarding our homegrown squad balance. But I suppose that wouldnt interest you.

    I only get wound up when I read comments like this:

    “I cant wait till we can shove our success down their throats”

    I would rather our club focused on doing everything it could to be successful. Not sit around waiting for it.

  139. Jabba

    Diaby is a huge talent, if we purchased the identical player from Spain, Italy or France we would be buzzing right now. I don’t agree with most the stuff you come out with so this convo is going nowhere. Leave it as that.

  140. CG,

    Like Vieria?

    You should wash your mouth out.

  141. Jabba's delights

    ChrisGoona

    ”You can’t come on here slating an international player who has shown his class and being compared to the likes of Vieira.”

    Thats exactly what you can do on here. Who gives a flying fook whether people thought Diaby was like Veira when he first came what maters is over the last 5 years there have only been tiny glimpses that he can tie veira left boot. Diaby must start proving he is a consistent player before he should be told it.

  142. Luke, I enjoy a debate, but my reasons for not debating are mainly work and the fact that if I spent hours debating with the beast that is Jabbilluke, I still don’t see it getting us anywhere. You lads will continue to get your lazy opinions of our squad from the media.

  143. Luke,

    Come on admit it now, you know you was wetting your pants when the initial hype around Diaby got to ya. Does it hurt that he couldn’t be just like Vieira?

  144. The only reason to talk about Jones and Henderson is their inflated transfer fees.

    Henderson fits the Pool player profile they need to replace Mascherano – strong on the ball and excellent work rate, and versatile.

    Jones is a good talent, and might have been a good back up for Song – except we have already invested in the fine talent of Frimpong. At CB, Jones would fall to the rear of the queue behind Vermaelen, Kos, and DJ.

    I can’t see either player “ever” a real consideration for our club.

    Those that post their extensive list of Arsenal players that are dead weight to the club and need to be flushed…..just remember that they were not at the core of our end of the season downfall.

    If you want your remarks to be taken seriously, stop protecting those that didn’t perform on the pitch.

    Our manager will maintain most of our roster.

    I do not wish to see Bendtner leave. At his age, he is a phenomenal talent. All this spin about ‘he has no first touch’ is bull sh*t. Based on the performances of Arshavin, Nasri, and Theo (from January thru May),
    Bendtner would have been a big boost to our attacking impotence.

    When a fan does not like a player, they find one or two moments “out of hundreds” to support their OPINION. When one of their favorites f*cks up……they are in denial and change the subject…..or find another player to blame.

    To call any of our players jokers is a reflection on your own character. Piss off.

  145. Luke, stop Jabbering. Jabba, your ideas are very conventional, have you considered that Arsenal presents an innovative approach, which is its strength. What are you Luking for? Another ManU/Chelsea/Pool, but called ‘Arsenal’?

  146. Jabba

    Like I said, on that basis you cannot criticize a player who has had 4-5 injuries per season. No matter how much talent the player has it is extremely difficult to build form and consistency when having to deal with the amount of injuries he has had. If he was to be sold it would be based on his injury problems not his ability.

    Go look at his goal scoring record and MOTM performances to see how influential he is then come back into this “debate”

  147. JD

    How much faster should Wenger be moving then fuck me?

    He’s signed a another youngster yes but, one who I don’t think will need that much development time before being used hers and there.

    You might not have seen it anywhere Wenger, had already spoke to Jones before fergie, and a fee was agreed but, the lad chose to utd which from his view point in totally understandable.

    So I don’t get what it is you think Wenger should be doing? He knows what is required and he’s doing what needs to be done. Normally he wouldn’t be doing much at this stage but, it’s there for you to see if your not blinded by the regurgitated shit in the media regarding Arsenal.

  148. mumbai gooner

    Evil @ 12.30

    I was not aware abt frimpong ..If he is jack’s equal then sure he should be given a chance

  149. Jabba's delights

    Markus

    ”You lads will continue to get your lazy opinions of our squad from the media.”

    Listen to yourself mate.

    You stated that these players are perfectly capable of filling in for Song during the 6 weeks at least he will be away

    ”Frimpong, Diaby, Wilshere, Ramsey, Eboue, Jenkinson, Eastmond, Vermaelen, Koscielny.”

    Hoe has anyone one of them proven that they can play dm for a sustained period of time in the premiere league.

    Lest go through this. I will present you facts

    Frimpong has zero premiere league experience is coming off a acl snap. He is also african so could be away.

    Diaby. Is injury prone but has great attacking talent has never shown himself to be a dm.

    Wilshere, MAYBE could play there but wouldnt fancy him away aginst physical teams. He is also a key player in another position.

    Ramsey. Far to attacking never played there.

    Eboue. Probably leaving is a right back and never played dm succesfully in the premiere league before.

    Jenkinson. Just singed him he has played 9 games of league 1 football at rb before.

    Eastmond. Couldnt get into the millwall team in that position.

    Vermalan, has never played there and is currently our best cb

    Kosciellny, Has never played there

    Your argument is so fricking weak its embarrasing. Sort it as that was piss poor

  150. If Frimpong, wasn’t so unlucky I think we would if seen him feature in the first team.

  151. It’s irrelevent whether you believe Diaby to be a talented player or not. He’s injury prone and always will be. Therefore, he can’t be relied upon and should be sold.

    Someone should find Dan Smith and break his legs!

  152. i’ve just been hit by deja vu – logged on to ACLF at work, read a really good blog entry, and then all of a sudden there are two hundred pages of jabba/luke with goonerandy chipping in every now and then taking the total opposite view over whatever has been said and then twists it around to talk about how diaby/denilson/ aren’t good enough and that we should buy . dont you ever get bored of discussing the same fucking thing every fucking day. its getting to the extent where i dont even want to visit this blog any more. don’t you have jobs or something? this is supposed to be a bastion of sense/normality in the arsenal world. i get it, you disagree, fair enough you’re entitled to your opinon – why on earth do you feel the need to keep expressing said opinions when it is 100% guaranteed that every single person who has ever been on the site knows what you think. at least choose a different subject, show some imagination ffs!

  153. Markus, I think you will find Frimpong is English not African.

  154. I don’t think Arsenal will see any major signings until the dust settles on the status of Cesc, Nasri, and Bendtner.

  155. drew10, he has decided to play for Ghana internationally, even though he has British Citizenship, so would be gone during ANC

  156. All this discussion about Diaby’s injuries…….same discussion we’ve been having about RvP.
    Diaby is a huge talent for the club – worth a big dose of patience.

  157. Okay Luke/Jabba, since it’s lunch I’ll respond to your concerns over adequate cover for Song.

    – The very nature of our centre-backs: quick, intelligent, ball-playing defenders makes them tailor made to play as holding midfielders.

    -Frimpong looked a beast before he got injured. Jack came into the first teams of Bolton and Arsenal and performed to a high level because he had a proper education. I believe Frimpong could do likewise. Not to mention the fact that he and Jack have been playing together for many years as someone else mentioned. Same for Eastmond.

    -Diaby already covers Song.

    -Eboue is probably the least likely candidate granted. He has always played on the flanks. But I still wouldn’t shit myself if I saw him start at central midfield.

    Now why go and spend 20 million on someone to cover Song for 6 weeks when we have this talent in our ranks?

  158. Diaby is a good player, but sadly will never make the heights he promised due to his injuries. Shame, as I really like him. Should not really be spoke of in the same breath as Paddy though.

    Frimpong? looked really good in a few pre-season friendlies. But we need to keep perspective here. That is all they were. Saying he should be getting games in the first team is way wide of the mark, and a good example of the inflated expectations of our fans.

  159. Jabba's delights

    goonerton

    I’ve said nothing about wenger not moving fast enough . I’ve also not said anything about our signing. He is young i hope he will be amazing i’m not going to write home about him yet or sh^t on him yet

    I said i was glad that Jones opted for Utd, i said i was happy we were being linked with Samba and Cahill. As i feel they are the type of defender we need.

    Forgive me if i think this time wenger’s actions should speak louder than his words though after last summer.

    I am happy all the news coming out of the club point to him spending his cash this summer as stated on her we have 3-4 holes to fill otherwise we are in real trouble for top 4 next year. If we fill them the world is our oyster

  160. drew, it was Jabba who said Frimpong was African. I demand an apology.

  161. JD, what counts as early transfers to you. Whats the deadline?

  162. Frimpong is African-born, but has represented England at under 16 and Under 19. But has said that if Ghana call him up he will play for them. Not likely this year though so cover for Song. Wooo!

  163. Jabba's delights

    Markus

    Who is asking for us to spend 20m not me not luke. We just said we need some more depth at dm

    You havent put forward a convincing argument for any of them. Diaby was a poor understudy for song at dm this year, which was one of our major problems.

    Your sepculating that cbs can move to dm, not a great option is it really.

    Frimpong has declared himself ghananian and is coming off an acl injury and has zero premiere league experience.

    We are trying to win the league none of the options you have put forward will cut the mustard

    jabberwocky

    We were debating the merits of signing Jones and i agreed with the post. Im very proud of the fact that i disagree with markus about our dm situation on here as it shows i know alot alot more about our club. I havent said i hate diaby just that we need a experienced dm to come in during the ANC if we want to win the league

  164. JD is JDgooner not Jabba’s delight.

  165. Jabba's delights

    Markus

    Follow Frimpong on twitter then come tell me where he is from. One of his last tweets was ”i hate everythign about england bar arsenal its so boring”. He is in Ghana right now telling everyone how much he loves it. He has repeatedly said he will pick ghana over england

    You just posted this about frimpong

    -”Frimpong looked a beast before he got injured. Jack came into the first teams of Bolton and Arsenal and performed to a high level because he had a proper education. I believe Frimpong could do likewise.”

    why cant he get into the Ghana squad this year then…………….whoooooo to an end of your drivel!

  166. LimparAssist

    6 weeks at least – are you sure? It’s a 3 week tournament if Cameroon make the final. I think he’ll miss about 4 league games like last time.

    I think the need for cover in central midfield depends a lot on whether Denilson stays. The need for an out and out DM is overplayed. As Markus says, we have plenty of central midfielders.

    I like Anthony Annan – but guess where he is in January!

  167. “Frimpong has declared himself ghananian.”

    He had decalred for Ghana but backtracked to play for England u19s but his injury came first. So we really don’t know who he will play for in future. It’s hardly something we need to worry about yet tho.

    I think our CBs could play holding midfield. We disagree, that’s all.

    As for more cover under 20 million. Give me a name. Give me the name of a player available for under 20 million who would start ahead of what we already have and would be happy as backup.

  168. Unless we’re planning to change our system, we don’t play with one holding midfielder; we have two box-to-box players that sit deep and an attacking midfielder (almost a second striker) in front. Of the two box-to-box players, one is generally more rugged than the other (like Song or Diaby), but there isn’t any one player assigned a holding role. That’s why we see Song getting forward a lot – he’s alternating with JW on attacks.

    I suppose there wouldn’t be a big problem starting, say, Ramsey and JW as the central midfield pair in Song’s absence, but as the squad stands I imagine it would be Diaby, Coquelin or Frimpong.

  169. AW always says he doesn’t like having one player assigned one task in a team – he wants midfielders that can both defend and attack. It’s been true for all the midfielders we’ve had under him. All the way back to Vieira, because he sure as hell wasn’t a defensive midfielder as we know them now (the kind of Makele type). Yes he broke up play, but he got forward a hell of a lot.

  170. It does not matter if Frimpong is English, Irish, Ghanaian, or Scottish. He has no PL expeience, we really should not be looking to rely on him if anything happens to Song.

    Markus – I really don’t get your logic for our CB’s playing midfield. It is championship manager thinking. You can’t afford passengers in midfield. You can get away with playing players slightly out of position in defence (you get more time on the ball), but not in midfield.

  171. OOU, Yes we play two CM with one holding as the other gets forward. Always have done.

    andy, you couldn’t see Vermaelen playing central midfield for a few games? He’d be a passenger? This is the same dude who went charging forward at every opportunity last year, looking to get involved.

  172. It is untrue that Eastmond and Lanbury are virtually ‘hopeless’. It is untrue that Frimpong is certain to play for Ghana, and/or is completely untried. It is untrue that Diaby can’t take the role of defensive midfield. It is untrue (although very unlikely) that Kos and a few others couldn’t possibly deputise in midfield. It is untrue that Arsenal MUST have a specialist defensive midfielder for every match, and cannot compensate with a particular line-up, using existing midfield depth. It is untrue that Wilshere is not yet ‘strong enough’ or whatever to enforce a bit. It is unstated that Rosicky himself is a fine utility option for a match or two. So many distortions and so much drivel …

  173. “AW always says he doesn’t like having one player assigned one task in a team – he wants midfielders that can both defend and attack.”

    And he wants defenders who can both defend and attack too. Which is why I imagine that they could play in CM.

  174. Andy ” I really don’t get your logic for our CB’s playing midfield.”

    Song WAS a defender!

  175. Yeah, you look at Koscielny’s passing range and wonder, Markus. I just don’t remember him doing it very often though. But then I suppose he switched Petit from defence to midfield, so he must be open to the idea.

  176. LimparAssist

    I think Frimpong will be a lot better than Annan and Badu at Ghana actually, and be partnering Essien maybe as early as the next ACN. Can’t wait to see him and Jack Wilshere pairing up again. I wouldn’t be frightened of him helping out in the Premier League this season. He’d be introduced a lot more gently than Wilshere that’s for sure. And the 11 hours of Prem experience Jack accrued at Bolton doesn’t change a hell of a lot. We’ll see how he does in pre-season and how he reacts to his injury but I don’t think it’ll be long coming for Manu. This season or next he’ll breakthrough. As OOU says, very exciting prospect to have a midfield partnership that’s been in the making at Hale End since they were 9 yrs old. La Masia eat your heart out.

  177. Markus – Bringing the ball out from the back is a world away from functioning in a midfield. It is interesting how we set up in midfield. In the first part of last season Song did not venture forward too much, and stayed anchoring the midfield. We looked better for it as well. Sure he gets forward well, and got some important goals for us last year, but as a team we look more soldi with somebody holding back a bit. Not as rigid as Makalele did mind.

  178. A lot of bigging up Frimpong on here. Considering he’s played zero first-team games for Arsenal that’s totally ridiculous. Even if he’s as good as people think (and I really do hope he is), it will be League Cup duty for him next season to see if he has the ability to step up. Meanwhile, we do need cover for Song, none of those touted in this comments section are realistic or capable deputies for him.

  179. Markus – He was (which is why he looks comfortable there when dropping back), but has genreally always played in midfield for us. He was moved from defence whilst still developing, and has adapted well. He has trained for the role. It was not a case of him being an established CB, just to be told “go and play in the middle of the park” for a few games, so not really relevant.

  180. Not sure that’s the case, GA. I think Song got forward a lot more at the start of the season than he did later on. Actually, that was part of the problem; we lost that kind of movement from deep and became horribly predictable in the last few months of the season.

  181. I remember Keegan playing Southgate in midfield for England once. Good passer of the ball, can tackle, could read the game well. How did that go?

    Good in theory, not in practice. There are plenty of reasons why our defenders do not play in midfield:

    a. They are good defenders.
    b. They are not very good (at this level) midfielders.
    c. This is not Championship Manager.

  182. OOU – Maybe, not how I remember it, but you could well be right. The thing is, we commit so many players forward, including both full backs (quite often at the same time), it does not take a brain surgeon to work out that somebody needs to plug that hole. For me, Song does that pretty well.

    All that said, playing the DM role is not all about defensive duties. Anchoring the midfield and acting almost as its axis is essential to our play. One of the reasons I actually prefer Cesc in a deeper role (different discussion though I suppose).

  183. Yeah we were much more ambitious in attack early in the season. People were calling for Song to stop getting forward as I recall. The he opened the scoring against Chelsea.

  184. There was a quote from Jack (someone linked to it here actaully) something like he and Song take turns covering the other, but then he went on to say that he was constantly shouting “Alex you stay back”. Doesn’t sound fair or like taking turns to me and it’s probably why people assume we play with one defensive midfielder. Song was just more responsible and too humble to shout back “Fuck you I’m going up this time”.

  185. Jabba’s Delights,

    Apologies. It wasn’t for you it was for JD Gooner post:

    JD Gooner | June 9, 2011 at 12:24 pm
    Sky Sports reporting that Ashley Young has had a meeting with Mancs Representatives already. While I agree the money they paid for Jones was excessive, I have to say I admire the way they get their “summer business” over early. If memory serves right, they did the same thing last season. I really do wish Arsene would do the same. Did he not promise he would?????

  186. our club doesnt need any reinforecements

    even our under 16 crop is better than Barca’s midfield

    anybody who pretends otherwise knows nothing about football

    oh, and I forgot, trophies are so overrated – hence we lost to a relegation team in the CC final

  187. I think we could do with a another DM and not be looking to just cover Song.
    I thought we had an eye on Swiss fella Gorkan but, I would really love to see Alou Diarra come to our club.
    All the talk we have heard about players being the next PV , this guy is the only one who fits the bill for me.

  188. Hyping up expectations happens all the time. Whether its for an untested member of our own – this year Frimpong, last year Szczheny – or for some member of the enemy who has yet to play for us, it happens. Deal with it but resist the temptation to point to its occurrence as support for your posistion

  189. Song, just doesn’t have the disciplined balanced between attack and staying to protect the back four quite sussed yet. And we he does get caught slipping he 99.9 times gives commits a foul within shooting range which is gut wrenching to watch.

    If he can sort that out then he will be fine but, I still think he needs to pushed for his place.

  190. LimparAssist

    Very nice, Finsbury.

  191. george rodger

    Luke,I thought you had turned it around a little but it looks like a bashing for you today.
    You wanted someone to give a good reason why a fit Diaby would start ahead of Jack,yes?
    Ok ,because he is physically more imposing,he adds height (much needed according to many),he is more attack minded,he is a far greater goal threat(Jack scored 1),he can also play the”Cecc.”role.
    Will that do you?

  192. + Little Jack won’t want to be playing 60 games next season before his first major international tournament.

  193. This is also interesting, keeping the discussion on the football and avoiding the gamesmanship and worse that has been seen when they are threatened. Shame the mancs didn’t offer much of a threat. Even with Bebe not on the bench.

    http://mr-renoog-videos.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-makes-barcelona-such-formidable.html

    I recall Bill’s rant when he managed to surface a few days after the CL final: Unfortunately, Slurgus had no need to kick up a fuss, as his team was, as they say ‘battered’.
    A reason for the silence? Combining two quotes, one from Clough, one from Slurgus:
    what other behaviour could we expect from such ‘Typical Cheats’.

  194. george rodger

    “Markus – I really don’t get your logic for our CB’s playing midfield. It is championship manager thinking. You can’t afford passengers in midfield. You can get away with playing players slightly out of position in defence (you get more time on the ball), but not in midfield.”

    My Lords Ladies , Gentlemen and Goonerandy ,I present to you (drum roll)……………………………………………………………………………Emmanuel Petit……………..I thank you.

  195. The heat maps looked interesting. Shame that there is not more for various stages of the season, to see if our gameplan changed at all during the season.

  196. Yeah LA, @ 1:38

    If Frimpong can prove that he has what it takes it could be absolutely huge having him alongside JW this season or next.

    If experience counts for so much, why have our CC teams always done so well in the competition, often beating established PL sides, despite boasting a number players who eventually fell by the wayside for us later on?

    Obviously there was an element of surprise, but I think those performances were possible because our side was settled. Most of our young players had been at the club for four years or more and knew their teammates better than the players on the other side knew theirs. They’d spent most of their formative years knowing only one way to play the game.

    I’m a total novice, but the more I try to understand what makes a great attacking team, the more I want to get away from thinking too much about individuals and worry more about the relationships within the side. Every player is going to have limitations, but if the players are intimately acquainted with his strengths and weaknesses then those imperfections won’t be noticed.

  197. last para ” …if the players around him are…”

  198. My Lords Ladies , Gentlemen and Markus ,I present to you (drum roll)……………………………………………………………………………Gareth Soutgate……………..I thank you

    Also, that main point is; we are one of the biggest clubs in Europe. Should we really be scramblnig around trying to fit square pegs in round holes, or…..wait for it, should be have a couple of very good players in each position? I wounder which approach will help us improve our chances of winning something.

    As it goes I think Arsene will remedy this. I am just glad that some of you lot are not in charge.

  199. George

    We never played Petit at CB. We also had the best defence in the league at the time. It was also 14 years ago.

    I can see the logic in adopting Kos/TV as DM’s. I dont agree with it, but I can see it. It would be lunancy to disrupte an already very fragile defence.

    Regarding Diaby, even though he is physically bigger than Wilshere, I know who my money would be on in a 50-50, 60-40, 70-30 etc.

    I’m not bashing Diaby mate, I’m just saying he is not going to be a starter for us if everyone is fit. Wilshere is arguably one of the first names on the team sheet now.

    I think its fair to say, Diaby is a luxury. When he’s hot, he is incredible. The issue I have, is how many times has been hot in the last two years? He cant stay fit, has had 4 years since his horrific break (ample time to prove fitness), and, I personally believe its a huge risk entering another season on the hope he will somehow, magically stay fit, and find consistency.

    Not slating him.

  200. As I said earlier:

    -The very nature of our centre-backs: quick, intelligent, ball-playing defenders makes them tailor made to play as holding midfielders.

    Gareth Southgate?

  201. Jabba's delights

    George Roger

    It a hell of alot better than Markus attempt but there are stll some differences of oppinion

    Yes he is bigger, but a big fat no to him being imposing. Thats his main actual playing criticism, that he doesnt impose himself, Modric bullied him last year it was embarrsing. Granted his height is more useful against bigger teams but the fact that he has zero aggression and no positioning sense means thats negated somewhat. Jacks communication and drive make us better defensively and going forward

    Yes he scores more goals but he also costs us alot of goals for picking the wrong option in the final third and holding onto it for to long. Good talented player but not a patch on jack

  202. GA, you can get heatmaps for the season on Guardian chalkboards, I think. They’re quite fiddly though.

  203. OOU – Cheers for that. I might have a tinker when I go home.

    Markus – Really mate, there is a massive difference between playing in midfield and playing in defence. Especially at that level. I used to play with a guy who used to play pro (lower divisions). He was the best player I have ever played alongside, and just ran the midfield from start to finish. 50 yards balls to feet, the lot. I was asking him if he played midfield in his pro days; he just laughed and said he would have not have even gotten a kick, he played full back when a pro.

  204. george rodger

    No Luke, but he was a converted CB,so there is good precident.Are you saying that Petit would not hack it these days(it was 12 years ago ?wtf?)
    Andy ,Southgate was hardly TV or Kos. on the ball ,now was he?
    I think a fit Diaby is a starter before Jack,at this moment.But luke you asked for an argument in his favor and I gave you one,no?And the way you asked was worded as if it was a stupid premise.Its not.Perhaps Jack is better ,but there is an arguement to be had ,at least,no?

  205. I actually think that if fit, Diaby will play over Wilshere. He offers us something different, so the balance of hte midfield is better with him in it. Also Wilshere is still only very young, so ideally would have been drip fed into the side so to speak.

    That said, Jack has made it very hard for him to be left out and Diaby’s fitness issues means he is never going to establish himself in the side.

  206. george rodger

    Jabba ,thats ok as long as you know it is just your opinion and not facts.Your problem, IMO ,is that you get the two things confused.

  207. george rodger

    Andy.You are 100% sure that Diaby can not overcome his fitness problems?Because I believe he can.

  208. Your right George, he was. The point I was making was he was always a DM for us, and he had the best defence in the league behind him, the best midfielder in the league next to him, and the most potent attack in the league in front of him!!!

    Guess what I’m trying to say, is that I would have been a great DM in that team! But seriously, Petit was class, and certainly we be remembered as one of Wenger’s finest developments and I certainly believe he would be one of the best in the business if in his prime today.

    To counter it (theres a suprise), Petit was a CB, but Wenger didn’t mess about sticking him in at DM (he had the advantage of 2? years with him at Monaco).

    My question is, if Wenger truley believed TV/Kos could be DM’s, wouldnt they be plying thier trade now? Lauren was another great example of amending a players natural role.

    The Diaby point is a fair one. Whilst very talented, will he ever get fit for long enough to breath down Jacks neck consistently. I hope he does . Competition for places is key. I guess thats the key, at the moment, with his reoccuring muscle injuries, he is sort of making Wengers mind up for him.

  209. George – I remember Ferguson playing Ferdinand in midfield for a few games as well. Didn’t work either.

    I can’t really believe that this is a serious discussion.

  210. George – Of course I am not 100% certain he can’t. I would love him to as he could be a great player. I am just basing my thoughts on what we have seen every season since he arrived here. The guy can’t play more than 4 games in a row without picking up some sort of injury.

  211. Yearp!

    Petit was a rubbish D**Mer.

    A) he had a ponytial.

    B) he was French

    C) He didn’t play every game as France won the World Cup. Viera did. Or was it the other way around. I forget.
    Maybe he didn’t play at all. That’s right, that victory was all down to the 6′ 6″ gr*tty giant, Deschamps.

  212. It’s more common for an attacking player to end up in a defensive role (like Cashley), isn’t it? I remember when AW was talking about JET he pointed out how unusual it was to have a defender end up further forward.

  213. Just kidding!

    Did not Song start out as a CB?
    Did he not have to prove he had the fitness to play in midfield, or something like that?

  214. Haha, gotta love this guy:

  215. The main issue with playing in midfield is that of spacial awareness. You get much less time on the ball than in defence. Often we you have the ball at CB the majority of the game is in front of you. A midfielder has to be 360 degree’s aware. And then (as Finsbury notes), you have to cover far more ground so have to be much fitter.

    It is not just a case of being a decent enough passer, to be able to function there.

  216. george rodger

    And another thing .Arsene has stated that Petit was the best midfielder in the world at the time he was playing with Paddy.That rather indicates tat he was not playing along side the best midfielder in the league.

  217. I think Frimpong will be in the 1st team squad next season if Denilson is sold, and there could be another midfielder going out. I only saw him in pre-season but he was a complete beast. I lost count of how many times he won the ball and he always dominated the midfield. Its a bit unfair to expect so much from a young talent, but you cant help but get excited when you see your club nurture players and bring them through playing in such an attractive fashion. Plus Wenger is looking for ‘height’ , so Frimpong may be one to help us in that department.

    goonerandy

    I think Diaby offers us something different going forward, I agree with your comment. He has a very good return and always causes the opposition problems… with his aerial ability, deceptive ability to stride over players and his good technique. I can Wenger having a bit of a headache when he has a fit Diaby and Wilshire to choose from.

  218. Great post Yogi:

    Of the English CB you mentioned I would be happy with any of the 3. I would like Cahill or Samba if we go that route. Both offer a different type of player then we already have. Jagielka similar to the players we already have. With Blackburn losing Jones I suspect they will be more anxious to hold on to Samba. I still like Hangeland but as Limpar pointed out yesterday he is last year and I have not heard any rumours about him. Our goals concede in the last 4 years has been 31 37 41 43. Some have said that having TV5 back would have changed that but if you look at the record we have conceded 44 goals in the 39 league games he has started for us. Thats not good enough. The boss has said we don’t manage the English style of football very well and we need to bring in someone who can do that. I hope he he keeps his promise.

    Frimpong is not even 20 and has played a couple of preseason games with the first team. How much do you really learn against poor opposition during preseaon? Get a grip. On top of that he is coming off a season ending ACL injury and has not played for a year. He needs to go on loan to a championship side next year. We can’t continue to tell players like RVP that we don’t want to spend the money since we have this promising 19 year. Frimpong may be able to help us in 2 – 3 years but we have to start having some success next season.

  219. But Song still started out as a CB, didn’t he?
    And he did manage a rather sweet back heeled flick past Messi during the game at the Arsenal Stadium.

    I confess I never saw Southgate pull that move off against Baggio or Zidane.

    I won’t mention any silly tricks by Djourou, that’d be too much.

  220. george rodger

    Arsene said that he felt Song would become a world class defender.He predicted it about 3 years ago.So perhaps we should be looking for 2 DMs.
    I am being obtuse now 🙂

  221. George,

    Mate – it wasn’t an agressive post, why get so defensive?

  222. george rodger

    Are there no new records out?
    Because this one needs changing

  223. Diaby is a horrible inconsitant player; a world beater one week, missing the next. But that stands to reason as he rarely gets a long run of games. If he did, I am sure his consistancy would improve as well.

    Chris – Having a viable alternative in Wilshere and Ramsey may make things easily on Arsene with rotating Cesc’s partner. I am not sure if this will help Diaby, or hinder him though. Either way, I fear if he does not impact on this season his window at Arsenal may close. Both Ramsey and Wilshere will kick on this year and improve.

  224. george rodger

    Luke, Sorry ,really .
    Its my posting style i,dont mean it to seem so aggressive.
    Well not all the time 🙂

  225. Finsbury – Ah yes, that ends that argument then.

    I also saw Pascal Cygan nutmeg somebody once. And he scored twice in a goal if I remember, maybe we should have tried him up front? Maybe he was the tricky fox in the box that we all craved during that period……and he was right under our noses.

  226. Diaby is a huge talent and I am not yet ready to give up on him. Unfortunately he always has been prone to muscle injuries even before his broken ankle. The reality is that he has never been able to make any type of sustained contributions to the team. He can never play more then 2 – 3 games in a row without a calf strain or a quad strain etc etc etc. No matter how talented a player is if he is not able to contribute then he is not helping the team. I don’t know how the home grown part of the 25 man squad rule works. If he is taking up one of the spots on the 25 man roster and not contributing for whatever reason then we can’t continue to hold him. If he doesn’t count against the 25 man limit then we can continue to hold on and hope that he will somehow get over his injury issues.

  227. Thanks for the write up Yogi. Jabba the Butt i’m tired of debating your invalid arguments, so i’m just going to call you out on it and not provide any reasoning behind the call out.

  228. LimparAssist

    In his last three seasons Cesc Fabregas’ has played 55%, 65% and 55% of AFC’s competitive minutes. Hopefully having his wisdom teeth removed will put an end to his hamstring trouble – but if it does not, should his position in our ‘roster’ come into question?

  229. george rodger

    LA,There will be no roasting of Cesc. at arsenal thank you very much,we will leave that sort of behaviour to the chavs.
    Oh sorry ,roster.I do feel silly now.

  230. Limpar @ 3:57:

    Are you really going to try to compare Cesc’s contributions to the squad over the last 3 – 4 years to Diaby’s? Interesting logic.

  231. He’s also third highest in the all time EPL assist charts with 80.

    His impact is unquestionable. Also, Fabregas has not had an injury free break from football since 2007. It’s easy to see why he is suffering from burn out / reoccuring niggles. Oh, and he played with a broken leg.

    Diaby has managed more than 30 games twice in his Arsenal career.

  232. Jabberywocky don’t get too discouraged! It is the transfer season afterall, i’m sure once some footy rolls around the debates on here will be much more stimulating.

  233. LimparAssist

    Just saying, those aren’t great stats.

    “Get rid of RVP he’s made of glass!” – rebuked.
    “Get rid of Diaby he’s made of papier-mâché!” – …

  234. That’s the second article I’ve seen with a photo of Maxwell instead of Krkic. I think the Guardian had it wrong as well.

    Bojan is pony btw. We don’t want him.

  235. Goonerandy,
    I’m not sure of what argument you might be referring to. And I’m not sure what kind of argument would attempt to compare Cygan with Djourou (who played as a D**mer whilst in Brum to much acclaim from rugged norvan manager Alex McLeish) or Song.

  236. Jabba's delights

    William

    Its weird as lets see wht ive said today.

    1) glad we didnt get Jones, would much prefer Cahill or Samba as they fit a need
    2) We need cover for DM as Song is away and he is the only one in the squad.
    3) Diaby is really talented but injury prone
    4) frimpong has zero experience, coming of an ACL and is African.

    You might not like or rate how i put it across but reading through the comments it appears alot of people are in agreement.

  237. mumbai gooner

    Can Heitinga be the cover for song at DM

  238. Cesc’s recurring injuries are a huge concern. Watching our performances for the last 3 years when is injured I think it is critical that we come up with some modifications of our standard tactics that will make us more effective when he is out. No one in the squad and probably no one in the world can replace what Cesc brings to our current attacking scheme.

  239. Putting undue pressure on our promising youngsters by depending on them to play significant roles in the 1st team next season is counterproductive to the overall success of project youth imo.

    Even Wenger agrees that the lower the average age of the team, the less likely they are to win stuff. We should be looking to add experience to the team, not youth.

    Besides whats the rush? These guys are young and can wait. If they don’t we have equally promising prospects coming up behind.

    Frimpong is an exciting prospect, but he hasn’t played football in a year and needs games to get back to speed. He can’t get those games with us, so its best for him to go on loan.

    Coquelin has a better case for seeing some first team action as he had a successful full season loan spell by all accounts. I wouldn’t mind seeing him rotated into the team once in a while, especially for ‘smaller’ games.
    Lansbury probably deserves a shot as well, but the fact is he still doesn’t have enough exposure to top level football. This means he won’t get a lot of games with us, which isn’t a good thing at his age. A loan spell may probably do him more good than sticking around with the reserves

  240. Lads let me just point something out about Vermaelen or maybe Koscielny playing in midfield. I suggested it as a last ditch option as coverage for Song for 4 bloody games! For it to happen (and I think it would work just fine if it did) we’d have to be missing Diaby, Ramsey, Wilshere and Frimpong – if he makes the step up next year.

    I’m NOT suggesting we develop one of our best CBs into a central midfielder.

  241. One thing is for sure, Song is a nightmare to replace. He’s just good. But he does play too many matches, and the ACN is a tough competition in which he is sure to feature prominently. Diaby is the obvious choice and best bet. No one one is saying Frimpong, much less Lansbury, Coquelin, maybe Eastmond are going to walk into first team matches as even irregular regulars like Eboue, but Arsenal should be looking at Song not starting in about 15 matches (a quarter) if uninjured, and more if injured along the way. To me that would be Diaby, first off, and Wilshere in certain situations. And only both are out do the youngsters begin to feature, although Frimpong, if fully back, is likely to play some early ties in the two cup competitions, and why not? Then people say we need a DM, as cover for Song! To do what exactly? Sit on the bench for 35+ matches? And what calibre of player are we talking about? For what price? Ahead of Rosicky, as a back-up? Nonsense.

  242. Henristic

    No spurprise you wated to infect this blog with some LG bile. You love that s(h)ite.

  243. You’re right, they can wait, which is why you need young players in every squad. If they’re good they’ll be ambitious, but also more willing to wait for an opportunity than a player in his late-20s might. I’m not sure anyone’s saying they want to see one of our youngsters burdened with too much responsibility, but you need these players emerging every season and getting a handful of games; they know the club and their teammates, and they’re generally more malleable tactically-speaking than an experienced pro would be.

    I actually think we had too many players out on loan – I think it would have helped having a couple of those guys in the squad.

  244. Oh boy, prepare for more Samir to United stuff.

  245. Alex Ice Cream

    Spy are reporting “increased efforts” by United to get Nasri. We cannot sell him to United whatever the cost. Do I think Nasri is worth 110k a week – no, not at all but if it is a choice of 110k a week or lose him to United then its a no-brainer. I am not happy with what Nasri has been saying either. We can sell one of many overpaid, underachievers to finance it.

    Nasri in a United shirt is too horrible to even contemplate

  246. Markus:

    We have money in the bank. We don’t have anyone that realistically we can count on to rotate with and back up Song. Why not bring in someone who can help our team. That position is probably the most clear example of where the squad could use some help. Using our resources to improve the squad is not cheating. I will never understand this reluctance to use the transfer market to our benefit.

  247. What would be worse, us selling him to United or him going there on a free next season? Not getting great vibes from Nasri.

  248. Zimpaul @ 4:35:

    Song is a good player, so is Kos, TV5 etc etc. When you look at our players as individuals on paper we have the best team in the PL. Yet as a unit especially on defense they have not been effective. Not saying we should send Song or anyone packing but we should have at least another DM who can challenge Song for his spot, rotate with and in some games play with him, especially this year when he has the ACN. Same thing with our CB group. Despite the individual talents of the players the boss has said we don’t manage the English style of play very well. Understatement if ever there was one. We can’t go into next year without some changes. Wenger has already said he does not plan to make any changes to the coaching staff so the idea that we are suddenly going to do a lot more defensive drilling or change our mindset on defense is probably not realistic.

  249. LimparAssist

    Watch you don’t step in the bullshit… that story reeks of it.

    “I just want tell you dont listen the newspaper and the rumours” Sound advice from SN8

  250. Cesc needs a proper preseason and he will be fine.

  251. If we are willing to spend 16+ on Jones, why not promote Bartley and spend 10 on Sakho. We do need cover for Song, the rest of the money can be used to find a suitable defensive midfielder.

  252. Good point YW.

    It is farcical of some Arsenal fans “Pharting up a storm” not really about the player but rather about how much Fergie spent on him. It’s Fergie’s willingness to part with 16 million for Jones that’s driving them insane, why Wenger doesn’t do that?

    Just pick a player Wenger – any player, although English is preferred – and then pay 25 millions for him, that will make him a superstar signing. That will show the world of football that we really mean “mean” business.

    Get a grip indeed.

  253. Hey ArseChicago. Do you have a favorite place to go watch the games? I live in the suburbs and would love to go to an arsenal themed bar to watch my team play.

    Jabba-You’ve said many more things than those 4 points. I actually wholeheartedly agree with the 4 bullets you’ve outlined there.

    It would be nice if Nasri took one from Denilson’s book. “I’ll never go to manure, chelskum etc….”

  254. I think Diaby is a fantastic player and has been well unlucky with his injuries. Yet there is no way he cannot overcome the injuries and be a top player for us. And yes, Wenger has played him ahead of Wilshere. I think h did it vs the spuds away and when Wilshere replaced Diaby (I think) we lost the battle in midfield.

    As for Song, again he is a top class plyer BUT he needs competition and doesnt have that at present. I would rather Diaby and Wilshere playedin more attack minded roles and hopefully FRimpong WILL get a chance but I seriously doubt after last seasons injury, he is ready yet.

  255. OOU,
    There is nothing to say these youngsters would have got games if the weren’t out on loan. We had options in the squad that were hardy used.

  256. G4E. You have just stated what I see as a terrible problem in football. Clubs are throwing around tens of millions on a whim. ZimPaul said it well at 12:41
    ——-have you considered that Arsenal presents an innovative approach, which is its strength. What are you Luking for? Another ManU/Chelsea/Pool, but called ‘Arsenal’?

  257. Goonerton;

    Luke | June 9, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Dexter likes to abuse people who work in Mac Donalds so take it on the chin and move on.
    —————————————————————————————————————

    Wow, I really hit a nerve there didnt I? Sorry dude, it was just a throwaway comment you know? Lets make up nd move on shall we?

  258. G4E,
    Apparently, Arsene was also ready to part with similar amount for the same player, so few people can say he isn’t ready to spend now.

  259. Bill, as I asked someone earlier and got no response maybe you could offer a name.

    A central midfielder better than those we have who would cost less than 20 million and be prepared to come in as backup?

  260. Colney

    I think Bartley will ge a chance. In pre-season he will get the opportunity to play and be assessed to see i9f he is ready for the step up or not. BUT, we canot wait till then because if he is deemed not qute ready yet, there’s a good chance all our defensive options will have been snapped up by then.

  261. Henristic

    If Wenger was ready to spend this kind of silly money on the same player then I wonder why did he stop the bidding at 16 million, why not 18 or 20 just to get him?

  262. kinell, we’ll sign someone soon…. even if it’s Shawcross!

  263. William,

    I guess it really depends on the approach, you either looking for model club in fantasy football or a model club in real world.

    The fantasy bubble will blow-up at some point.

  264. Move with the times people! It looks like some of us are still caught up in the past 🙂
    I think the signs are pretty clear that he clubs policy on spending is changing.

    According to reports, the only reason we don’t have an overrated 17m pounds teenage defender on our books is because the player in question refused to sign for us. We could have also broken transfer records for Reina too if our bid was accepted by ‘Pool.
    These failed bids, combined with and statements by Wenger and Liam Brady all point to fact that we are now a spending club too.

  265. Gunner4Ever | June 9, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    “If Wenger was ready to spend this kind of silly money on the same player then I wonder why did he stop the bidding at 16 million, why not 18 or 20 just to get him?”

    Err, because the player didn’t wanna sign for us?

  266. The mancs have signed Jones to play in midfield i reckon. for when they play us. ultra defensive cunts. defend their way to the title again.

  267. With apologies to Eddie Cochran, this seems to sum up the Nasri feelings, certainly the comments I’ve read on Twitter today

    I’m gonna raise a fuss, I’m gonna raise a holler
    This summer Samir Nasri’s got me all hot under the collar
    Every time he’s told staying at Arsenal that’s his fate
    His agent says, “No dice Ivan, you gotta pay above market rate”
    Sometimes I wonder what is he gonna do
    Leaving for Manchester – Is he red or is he blue?

    Well, his agent told a paper, “Nasri’s due a lot of money”
    “He’s their star player, stop laughing it’s not funny”
    When the supporters looked at him like he was thick
    Bitched about half a season, he got out of there quick
    Sometimes I wonder what is he gonna do
    Leaving for Manchester – Is he red or is he blue?

    He said I’m looking for a good deal, gonna stay for the duration
    Don’t listen to the rumours, only my oration
    When we told him we want consistency, he said and I quote
    I’m only interested in the number of noughts that you wrote
    Sometimes I wonder what is he gonna do
    Leaving for Manchester – Is he red or is he blue?

  268. Not so sure, Henristic. Firstly, if a player’s in the squad then that means he’s in contention. There’s a meritocracy; say a player impresses consistently in reserve games or training, then sooner or later space will be made for him on the bench, and he’ll be pushing the more established players. AW gave JET a few minutes against Chelsea in a big match after his blistering start to the season, for example.

    What happened instead was that the squad got split into two layers (to my mind) – we had established first teamers, and then guys (with a lot of experience) who looked resigned to serve as backup.

    I’m hoping that we’ll revert to using youngsters in the CC again, and maybe try to send fewer away on loan this time. It’s a difficult balance though.

  269. Henristic,

    “Err, because the player didn’t wanna sign for us?”

    So I’m not sure why some people are mad we didn’t get him? 🙂

  270. I second that OOU. Please let us use the domestic cups as we used to.

  271. I agree with OOU, I doubt we will spend recklessly. Maybe we will buy more players than the usual, but not spending one large sum on one player.

  272. Markus:

    1) He does not have to be a back up. He would come to compete with Song and rotate and play with him.

    2) I am not a scout and do not have access to the scouting reports of that the team does. I also have absolutely no idea how much any player is worth. Inler, Fellaini, are both excellent players. I love the idea of the former. I am completely confident there are several others in Europe.

    3) According to Swiss Ramble the most reliable source available we could spend upwards of 50M without any long term risk to the club plus we should have more money coming in from players who we will be moving to other clubs so we could easily afford 20M if needed.

    The reason the club built the Emirates was to improve our revenue so we could better compete for players in the tranfer market. Somehow during the last 5 years financial frugality has developed a life of its own and seems to be more important then our success on the pitch to some people. We complain endlessly about the disadvantages of our finances yet we clearly have enough money to significantly improve the squad this summer. To leave that money sitting in the bank makes absolutely no sense.

  273. OOU,

    Still don’t get why that means the youngsters on loan were any likelier to get games by staying around?

    But I agree the two tier system wasn’t very helpful. Wholesale changes to the squad backfired. Would have been much better to change only a few players at a time.

  274. G4E,
    To be honest, I haven’t seen many people angry that we didn’t get him. Some doomers were initially pissed off the mancs seemed prepared to spend more than we do, but it later emerged we bid a similarly large figure for the player.
    Its a bit amusing really, as these people now have to find something else to criticize the club for.

  275. Sorry, what I meant is that they certainly wouldn’t have been more likely to get games. But the presence of a few more youngsters might have benefited the squad, partly by pushing other players and perhaps injecting the group with a little ambition and enthusiasm.

  276. Bill
    “…We complain endlessly about the disadvantages of our finances yet we clearly have enough money to significantly improve the squad this summer. To leave that money sitting in the bank makes absolutely no sense.”

    Worry no more, Bill. The boss almost bought a 19 year old for 16m.
    You finally got what you wished for… 😉

  277. You know what else doesn’t make sense, Bill? Spending for the sake of spending.

  278. Luke @ 11:27am,

    I take your wager and we can discuss again come May 2012. I have no doubt that (injuries permitting) Diaby will surprise you and hopefully bring a little optimism into your seemingly dark world.

    Let’s wait and see

  279. OOU,
    I get you now, but not sure about the logic. You saying that young ‘uns could have made a difference to the competitive spirit of the squad in training.
    So you think the reason Wenger didn’t use the fringe players much because they didn’t impress him in training? Then surely we should get rid of them all if they were that bad over half a season?
    Besides which of the players on loan could have really made a difference?

  280. Henristic:

    Your such a kidder.

    Glad we didn’t get Jones. No way to prove it but I suspect the boss knew all along he would end up at United. He makes perfect sense for them but we need someone who can step in as first choice next season.

  281. Going by previous behaviour, Arsene obviously doesn’t mind selling good players to our rivals. I really do hope he makes an exception in this case, cause it will really hurt if wee even contemplate selling Nasri to United.

    Better to pay him what he wants. I totally agree with Ateeb on this.

  282. Evil:

    No one suggests spending just for the sake of spending. Looking at the league tables and the lack of squad rotation during the last 1/2 of the season it is rather daft to suggest that there are no players in the world who could improve our squad.

  283. Luke @ 11:46am,

    How’s about: Nasri, Cesc, Diaby?

    Or, Nasri, Cesc, Arshavin?

  284. Bill:

    “Glad we didn’t get Jones. No way to prove it but I suspect the boss knew all along he would end up at United. He makes perfect sense for them but we need someone who can step in as first choice next season.”

    I don’t know men. If Arsene really spoke to the player as reported and had a bid of 16mil accepted, hard to say he ‘knew all along he would end up at United’

  285. Opps, for Cesc read Ramsey

  286. agree with the post..
    i know we made a bid for jones but i think we would have wasted the money im glad he went to manutd..we dont need another young player, if we want to go with youth then use bartley..

    its interesting that utd have 6 1st team cbs…we have four..

    if jenkinson is backup for sagna then fair enough..we dont have any stand out youth players really at rb so buying one is the solution..

    would like wenger to do that to the first team though….plenty of time left yet but i would expect us to announce something next week..

  287. Misquoted again. I didn’t say pay whatever Nasri wants. No. No. That would be insane. Imagine all the players started asking for pays that they want. We’ll go down the drain. Pay him, as much as he deserves. If he’s asking for more, and trying to hold the club for ransom. Fuck him. Sell him to Manchester United, so we can watch him lose every time we play them from next season. Teach him a lesson I say. But only if he’s being a bitch about the wages. But I doubt he is doing that, he’ll sign a contract with us. And he just said not to listen to the rumors, so we should stick to that.

  288. Henristic:

    obviously you are correct. I know there were other things going on but this reminds me of the last years search for a GK. We bid on Reina and came very close to Schwarzer but could not make it happen. The whole idea that we bid on players who could potentially help us and we just miss is even more frustrating. Hopefully our search for a CB and DM and a couple new attacking players will not end up the way last years GK search did.

  289. Either I’m not explaining myself well, or you’re being obtuse. Probably the former (it’s been a long day!).

    You said:

    “OOU,
    There is nothing to say these youngsters would have got games if the weren’t out on loan. We had options in the squad that were hardy used.”

    And I gave an example of a youngster who did get an opportunity after impressing in training and for the reserves. And it’s not just the contribution that he made on the pitch; simply the process of pushing himself into contention would have been positive for the squad. It demonstrates that if you impress, you get a chance.

    “So you think the reason Wenger didn’t use the fringe players much because they didn’t impress him in training? Then surely we should get rid of them all if they were that bad over half a season?”

    Now we’re talking about an assertion I’m making about the morale within the group last season. And I would say it’s at least partially substantiated because Denilson has already told us that he’d made his mind up about his future as early as Xmas. His disappointing new year performances make some sense in that light.

    I’d claim that youngsters spending their first or second season with the first team squad would not have lost their verve so easily, and might have spurred a couple of players on by providing competition.

    Now I can’t give you specific players that would have pushed through because we’re talking about an alternate reality in which those players would have been training at the club and playing in reserve matches or the CC for us. But, two players who I think offer attributes that I think we were missing: Afobe – unadulterated pace, strength and graft in attack, and Coquelin – tenacity in central midfield.

  290. Gainsbourg69

    For those wanting to sell Clichy please provide a name for a replacement. As it stands right now the only FBs slightly better than our Gael are perhaps Evra and Cashley. From there I just don’t see any fullbacks that could do Clichy’s job better than he does.

  291. So United paying 16 mil means that we were offering 16 mil for the kid? I need some clarify on that? Did Arsenal state that was the case?

  292. I remember Clichy handling Ronaldo with class, I have never witnessed another LB containing him the way Clichy does.

    Clichy is class!

  293. Fair enough Henristic, I just don’t believe all I hear or read. I doubt that we even made any offers for the player, some media hacks like to make it sound like the Mancs got a player out of Arsenal mouth to soften the blow of a 16 million for a young player.

    To be honest, I’d rather pay 6 millions in that Pea guy rather than 16 million for Jones. I know they’re in different positions but you can see the discrepancy in player’s prices and their real values.

  294. I second that Gainsbourg. Baines name has been mentioned as a possible replacement. He scored 5 goals this year, and I think it’s been over 2 seasons since Clichy found the back of the net. So Baines edges him in that category. But there is a reason Clichy starts for the French national squad. That reason is this.

  295. OOU,
    I wasn’t been intentionally obtuse. Sorry if I came across that way. Your point just didn’t sound that straightforward to me, and it still doesn’t.
    I understand your claim, but don’t see much evidence for it. If JET got game time because he impressed in training, then why did we loan him out? In Theo’s recent interview, he said:

    “It all started to go wrong when we lost the Carling Cup final and I don’t know what happened after that. Everything was still the same in training, in the way we played and the way we prepared…
    But we couldn’t get our form back and maybe that was when something should have changed.

    So I find it hard to believe that they lost morale to the extent that it affected how they training. Or that such performances influenced Arsene’s choice to the extent that more competition by a youngsters would have made a difference.

    Besides if so much of the fringe players suffered from low morale, any reasons why it wouldn’t have affected the youngsters too?

  296. Gunner4Ever | June 9, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    “Fair enough Henristic, I just don’t believe all I hear or read. I doubt that we even made any offers for the player, some media hacks like to make it sound like the Mancs got a player out of Arsenal mouth to soften the blow of a 16 million for a young player.

    To be honest, I’d rather pay 6 millions in that Pea guy rather than 16 million for Jones. I know they’re in different positions but you can see the discrepancy in player’s prices and their real values.”

    Here we completely agree. Its crazy season for sure, and I hope the story is false. I really can’t imagine why we would bid that much for a player at that level.

  297. G69,
    Evra and Cashley better than Clichy? No ways. Certainly not this season.
    You must have missed that stat someone posted earlier that Cashely had the lowest tackle success rate in the prem for a defender. And Evra is just kak.

    Hat trick?

  298. You might have missed the word ‘perhaps’ in G69’s comment.
    Own goal?

    Back to the groaning board I’m afraid.

  299. george rodger

    william,Bains is no where near Gael.

  300. The problem with Clichy is that he has deteriorated. Not ability-wise, he is still as quick and intercepty as always, but mentally, it’s like someone flips a coin before the match and we either get the Clichy who will be as solid as Sagna, or we get the Clichy who’ll play everyone and their grandmother onside. I can’t even remember how often I saw Clichy being the one to miss making the step up when the rest of our defense did to play the offside trap. I honestly hope that he can recover and get some more consistency in his game next season because, realistically speaking, Gibbs is just not ready and I don’t see many players that could replace him 1 for 1 and would be available at a realistic price. On his day, he is one of the world’s best in the position and at 25, he is at the right age.

  301. george rodger

    Pearce is the most boring man in football.Real cunt

  302. Henristic, Arsenal tinted specs on there mate. Both Cole and Evra are better than Clichy unfortunately.

  303. JJ:

    Yogi and you are correct. Its a long summer and its to early to get worked up. Even though I don’t think Jones was the player we needed losing in any race with ManU and seeing the Manc’s and Scousers get business this quickly makes things seem worse then they really are.

  304. George I really don’t think he is either, I was just trying to understand the viewpoint of those who think Clichy belongs in this newly dubbed “deadwood” club. Funny that our “deadwood” players are better than the starters on at least 10 of the other EPL teams. No one try and argue “if they are so good why can’t we beat WBA, Stoke etc…” By looking at the season in its entirety, there are only 3 teams that have won more games than us. I am not graciously accepting our 4th place finish, just viewing it from a numerical standpoint. Keep this squad together, add a new face or two, and we will have a splendid 2012 campaign.

  305. “It all started to go wrong when we lost the Carling Cup final and I don’t know what happened after that. Everything was still the same in training, in the way we played and the way we prepared…
    But we couldn’t get our form back and maybe that was when something should have changed.”

    But in my view the warning signs were there before that. Thinking of the cup performances in particular; we muddled through against vastly inferior teams. All the while starting players that we had seen overcome far stiffer opposition in the past (thinking back to home leg against Roma in ’09 when Eboue, Denilson and Bendter all started).

    We were going to need these lads in case of injuries or loss of form to the players in front, but they looked out of sorts. And I think that’s because they’d already made their minds up about their futures.

    All the big clubs have a couple of young players entering the squad every season. Some hang around for a few years, fail to break into the team and move on. Some spend a couple of years on the fringes before making a breakthrough, and some manage to make an impression straight away.

    I just don’t think we had enough new young faces available this time around. Probably too many were nearing the end of that cycle.

    As for JET, I think it’s tough to say. I guess RvP came back, which sort of closed the door for him, while AW was talking about his fitness a lot, which might be a euphemism for attitude. He certainly seems like a bit of an enigma, which is a shame, because he’s so talented.

    OK, got to go.

  306. george rodger

    If JET was going to make it with us he would have impressed on loan.As Jack did.I think we can forget him.

  307. Rumour mill in overdrive, statement at 9pm GMT on Nasri’s future.

  308. Agree with Evil. The Clichy we saw in 07/08 before the Birmingham game made us think we had the best LB in the world for many many years. Fair or not it feels like that was his high water mark. Someone of that age should have made a steady improvement rather then hitting a plateau or may be falling off over the next 4 years. I hope he does not leave because Gibbs is not ready. If he does leave I hope we try TV5 as his replacement.

  309. Goonerandy,

    No rose tinted glasses here. Cashely used to be the best lb, but he has regressed this season and what’s to say he won’t get worse next season. He’s nearly 30 and his best is behind him.

    Evra isn’t all that either. I’ve got some Manc friends who think he is really poor.
    He’s no different from Clichy in terms of attacking contributions (rarely scores or assists) and is also prone to loss of concentration too. So at best you can say he is on par.

  310. I think Nasri’s offski 😦

    on another point Chezzer having a stormer tonight against the French! – pulled off several pretty good saves already!

  311. Not saying that clichy doesn’t make mistakes. ( I critized him earlier in the season more than a few times). I don’t don’t agree that Evvra and Cashely are better options at the moment.

    I won’t mind getting someone like Marcelo, etc but he’ll cost a great deal I think, and we have more pressing issues. Clichy staying would do me fine.

  312. Remi:

    Anyone know what the status of Woocash Fabianski? When will he be ready?

  313. bill
    it doesnt concern me that utd have beaten us to a kid..
    hes rated yes, and maybe in 5-6 years time we will look back and think 16mil was a snip but hes not our answer..
    the real hurt was losing the title to utd..
    jones doesnt bother me..im not going to get into a fluster of phil jones..they can have him he wont be the reason they nor we win the title so its 16mil saved in my opnion..
    liverpool and utd can go into overdrive in the first week if they want..citeh and chelsea are yet to make moves as well..but i think we should be acting in the second week..

  314. I am not sure about Evra but Cashley is past his best. To be honest, I am shocked how far back he went this year but he has made some massive high profile mistakes this season, especially in important matches. Not just talking about him struggling against Theo when they played us. Didn’t he miss the decisive penalty for Chelsea in the FA Cup as well? And he hasn’t scored this season, even though last year he managed to score 4. I think he scored like in every season he played for us at least once.

  315. The French team sucks almost as much as the English team.

  316. No idea Bill,

    Watching the game on a feed with french commentary, hes playing well and kept the Poles in it although they are losing 1-0…

    Sagna is playing, Diaby sub – no Nasri though, hes probably at Old Trafford about to sign on the dotted line

  317. JJ:

    I agree that Jones was not the right player for us and missing him should not be a concern yet it is. Visceral rather then cerebral response.

  318. Remi

    It was good to see Chezzer sweeping aside N’zogbia. 🙂

  319. Szczesney looking good tonight. Just falttened N’Zogbia for good measure too.

  320. dont have a clue what viscerwhatever or celery response is so i dont know what you mean??
    a little help please bill. 😉

  321. I just signed on to the new Arsenal Player….I like it, it’s much better.

  322. What’s going on YW, It’s 9:06?

  323. It’s 9:06, where’s the statement? 😛

  324. I would just like to make this brief statement;

    The Nasri rumours are full of shite.

    Thank you

  325. is this statement going to be released via twitter?

  326. YW @ 5.54. You’re wasted on this site. Everyone is engaged in their own private arguments. I think you should repost on Le Grove.

  327. Vermaelen, Djourou, Koscielny, Squillaci

    Vidic, Ferdinand, Smalling, Jones

    Wonder who’ll concede fewer goals next season?

  328. Probably:

    Ivanovic, Terry, Luiz, Cole

    😦

  329. JamesdooMer
    Has the transfer window closed? Blimey I know I slept in, but hats ridiculous

  330. I think for other team defense lines you need to add this player: FA Joker Referee (Plays anywhere in the line).

  331. Remi

    Was hat supposed to be a good back 4? Terry and Cole are on the decline, Ivanovic is solid if unspectacular ad Luiz flattered to eceive massively. He got found out towards the end of last eason. His honeymoon period was shorter than Squillaci’s!

  332. It really amazes me the reaction of people to other team’s signing players. United sign a teenage CB and som people are already reaching for the valium nd prozac. God knows what state you’ll be in by August, wont be pretty.

  333. george rodger

    Lol Dexter.Sideshow Bob gave away an Eboueesque penalty in his first game and should have been sent off in his second.His honeymoon would have been over by game 3 if he was an Arsenal player.

  334. Also I take the point about not wanting to spend crazy money on inexperienced players like Henderson or Jones who have < 50 Premier League appearances but we have just spent £1m on a 19 year old who only became a first team player for a LEAGUE 1 side in January. Doesn't seem that great a deal to me.

    Keep the £1m in your pocket and put it towards someone who'll help us compete now.

  335. JamesdooMer

    Was it £1mill? Or was it up to £1mill? After appearances and so on? I dont know, nor do you (clearly) Then again, £1m for a young player, who can play cross the back is chicken feed, unfortunately, in this money laden football world. This idea we shouldnt sign good young players is baffing really? Especially as we dont realy have any back up RBs in the youth set up ready to step up.

    I think its a bit much for some people to understnd that the youth set up has its own budget and is fuck all to do with the 1st team.

  336. Dexter,

    As much as im loathe to say it I think its quite good.

    I agree Terry is possibly on the decline but I still think Cashley is number one in his position.

    I also think Luiz is pretty decent player from what I saw…

    But hopefully Sagna, Verm, Kos, Clichy/Gibbs will do us proud next year…

  337. George

    Ha! It was funny how the Sky commentators were laudinghim and kept on havng o try an gloss over all his fuck ups! But nope, £25m very well spent.

    The chavs spent £80m in january to do what? Same as us. Not saying anything there, no sirree Bob!

  338. Remi

    Cashley had a stinker last season amte. maybe it was a blip?

    I am hopeful that our back 4, whoever it is, will be tighter as a unit. I am one who would like some fresh blood, in terms of playing AND coaching staff.

  339. Bill

    What are u on about? I am pretty glad we didn’t get Schwarzer or Reina. We have 2 quality goalkeepers in our ranks for the next 5-10 years! Szeznhy was absolute class just now against France. Sweeped a few 1 on 1s and made some quality saves. It should be interesting next season in the battle to be Arsenal’s no1. Almunia is almost certainly on his way, so maybe if Lehmann is heading elsewhere we will bring in some experience…

    Do we really need it.. I think we got it covered in the keeping department personally.

  340. Chris

    I could actually see the benefits of signing an experiened keeper. I thought Freidel would’ve been a good option. The reason being I dont see Faianski, or Szczesney sitting on the bench next season. One of em will expect to be number one (no names Passenal, no names!!) and the other will definitely not like not playing and given their respective ages, I’d say warming the bench ant good for their developments as well.

  341. Bradys right foot

    Nasri to be transfer listed?

    If he is well done Arsenal football club.

  342. Chris:

    Chezzer will probably be #1 next year but myself I hope its Fabianski. Wish we had gotten Schwarzer and sent Chezzer on loan similar to what happened with Joe Hart. Thats water under the bridge. Point was I hope something similar to the summer GK saga does not repeat itself with all of our prefered targets this summer.

  343. nasris been put on the list??

  344. Its tricky Dexter. I think bringing Mannone back as 3rd choice may be best. No point having a 40 yr old keeper pissing off 2 of our prospects who are ready to play. Szezhny and Fabianski have both proved they are ready for action. Maybe bringing an experienced keeper in with him knowing that 3rd choice and mentoring is his role, if he accepts that then fine. I have no qualms in keeping Lehmann for that role either.

  345. Bradys right foot

    So the rumor goes JJ, could be rubbish but it seems that the club are not offering young Samir a penny more than the 90K thats on the table.

  346. Nah JJ, thats what Brady is hoping for as he is taking it all way too seriously! (I am probaly gonna live to regret saying that bit!)

  347. well if its true then fuck him but thats not a good start to the window..

  348. I think Nasri is pure class, but if this is all true its a bit low of him to be demanding more than that. 90k is a lot of money for someone who only really produced for 6 months. Henry only started earning that after how many goals and assists ?? Fabregas too…

    I hope its all false these rumours. Come on Nasri just sign the fucking contract and grow up. You know Arsenal is the place to be!

  349. Bradys right foot

    Dexter | June 9, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    Nah JJ, thats what Brady is hoping for as he is taking it all way too seriously! (I am probaly gonna live to regret saying that bit!)

    Lol not at all Dex, has young Samir put my nose out of joint this last week damn right sir. But i do love watching the guy play, he scored one of the greatest goal i’ve ever seen and is a fantastic footballer. I wish hed taken the 90K on offer and with a loyalty bonus would have progressed up the scale to where RVP is. We would have rewarded him, my take is he’s engineering a way out and has something lined up if he wants to leave fine, just don’t take the piss.

  350. Nice one Brady mate. I am still hoeful it will be resolved. As much s Samir needs to be realistic in his demands, so do he board. The football world is always changing and moving and as obscene as what I am about to say is, £90k a week is pretty dam average these days! The chavs give that to their fringe players. NowI know we aint the chavs, but footballers talk and they know how much they all earn. Unless we have a team of players who live and breath Arsenal, who would play for free if they could, then we are going to have to be more flexible in our transfer dealings. How many players do we need to shed like this?
    I hope its all bollocks and will be soon resolved.

  351. G4E @ 9.06

    The only sane comment I’ve seen

    @9/07

    Dunno – I said it was the rumour mill that said there was an announcement, not that there was one! Anyway The Times reckon Looneypool have made a £5m bid for Clichy. Not seen the story – don’t believe in paywalls – and no-one else has picked up on it yet. Well that’s what I’ve read this evening.

    YW

    PS Bernard, I know…

  352. How does one refuse 90 grand per week?

    what a sick and twisted world we live in.

    I sure hope this isnt true.

    Nasri was the best player at the start of the season but he cooled down way too much at the end.

    It bothers me when the players talk about not winning trophies because if they played to their potential this season we would have won the PL to blow wow.

  353. Just read this on twitter. It is from the guy who customizes the players caes.

    I have just spoke to Samir Nasri this guy is nothing 2 do with him. @A__Migliaccio. Stop lying..@Nanas08 #lies RT”

  354. That would be ‘cars’ of course.

  355. Dexter

    I hope we can stump up the wage a bit to keep the lad happy. I just don’t want Arsenal being held to ransom. Wenger must be fuming that Nasri has taken so long to sort his contract. Say we offer him a 100k, or 120k for arguments sake… what if City or Madrid are willing to give him 150k plus a fat signing on fee. If the guy is purely interested in the money then he will leave.. like Cashley and Adebayor before him.

  356. Clichy 5m……… no comment

  357. 5 mil for Clichy!? x3 or 4 maybe

  358. nasri needs to stay
    we have to stop this habit of losing our key players
    he was in the team of the year he needs to be kept..

  359. Dexter: “It really amazes me the reaction of people to other team’s signing players. United sign a teenage CB and som people are already reaching for the valium nd prozac. God knows what state you’ll be in by August, wont be pretty.”

    Jabba almost soiled himself over Manure signing De Gea, Young and Jones. To me, De Gea is nowhere near Van der Sar quality, Young is about as good as Valencia and Jones is a nobody.

    If Samir quits I wouldn’t mind it if Wenger gets N’Zogbia. He’s quick, can dribble, is physically imposing and has EPL experience. It appears he’s mates with Bacary on twitter as well.

    As far as Clichy is concerned, that pass to Van Persie for his wonder goal against Barca absolves him from keeping Villa on side for their first goal.

  360. LFC are having a laugh if true. £20m for Henderson and £5m for Clichy? I can see Arsenal going for that one!

    Dexter, if we spend more on improving player contracts we will have less for player aquisitions. It all comes from the same budget.

  361. clichys in the last year of his contract we wont get more than 7 mil for him..
    nasri we will be lucky to get back what we paid for him to begin with..
    just give him the extra..
    de ja vu all the time at arsenal

  362. JonJon

    If its about money then he can leave. I am sick of players producing for 1 season or 6 months and cashing in. They get easily turned and the problem is there is always someone with a bigger wallet out there.

    Cesc could have left and went to City, Chelsea, Madrid etc and got a higher wage. I hold a lot of respect for the guy as he truly only looks out for his footballing ambitions. I hope he has the desire to lead this Arsenal team to a trophy still, and I hope Nasri has the desire to kick on with us.

  363. Bradys right foot

    We can’t compete on wages with only about five or six other clubs in the world for star players, its not like everyone at Man Utd is on 90k per week. Arsenal have been good for Nasri and im sure his ability and the exposure playing for Arsenal has seen his endorsements over the lastthree years go through the roof.

  364. I expect you were not one of those complaining about the 6.5% rise in season ticket prices at Arsenal JJ, if you are so cavalier about money.

  365. Clichy won’t hold Arsenal to ransom. He is one of our longest serving and has been through it all. I don’t see us finding a better LB out in the market anyway. I have high hopes for Gibbs but he needs to be eased in as he is clearly not ready to cement a 1st team spot with all the injury problems he is having

  366. if we lost nasri and replaced him with nzogbia i wouldnt be happy

  367. Clichy-worth more than 5m.

  368. How much did we pay for Nasri?

  369. Thanks YW….I should’ve figured it out when you preceded with “Rumor Mill” 🙂

  370. Bradys right foot

    JonJon | June 9, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    nasri needs to stay
    we have to stop this habit of losing our key players
    he was in the team of the year he needs to be kept..

    JJ no denying the kids talent but his contribution last season like Bales to the Spuds is hugely overhyped. 1 assist 10 goals in the league playing primarily on the right of a front three for Arsenal, im sorry m8 its not convincing. Theo had 9 goals and 10 assists and there are around 20 or so players in the league playing in advanced positions with better stats. Now only a fecking moron isolatesthe stats and talks in absolutes, he’s a huge talent and will get better, but ask yourself this imagine if Odemwinge or Nzogbia has played every game young Samir had for us last year in the league in the right of a three would they score 10 goals, i think the could, would they set up more than 1 goal id be pretty confident that they would.

  371. whats that got to do with anything?? theres room for flexibility passenal..especially on the wages..
    the rip off prices are just a part of the evidence that the club is so far profit orientated that its up its own arse..

    weve got room to stretch our legs if we wanted to..when you look at our profit margins each season..im sure we could find an extra 20k per week or whatever..
    it wouldnt turn us into leeds or pompey would it..

  372. cant beleive we are talking about nzobia replacing nasri…

  373. Bradys right foot

    Im not JJ, but Nzogbia had 9 goals and 6 assists playing for Wigan, i’d suggest in an Arsenal top the guy could contribute more playing with better players.

  374. george rodger

    Arshvin to replace Nasri?

  375. Bradys right foot

    …….and trying toput Nasris contribution to us into some perspective.

  376. george rodger

    give cesc and RVP Samri’s wages between them

  377. george rodger

    less 10k to young Theo

  378. Great song earlier, YW. I too busy pontificating!

    I didn’t think it would, but the transfer window’s wearing me down. Summertime Blues in fact! Guitar Wolf did a great version of that song btw – same can’t be said for the Flying Lizards’ though.

  379. Anyone noticed there’s a nightly slew of articles around this time. I think all the Mirror ones are published at 11:00. It’s like an evening fix of transfer brown.

  380. nobody to replace nasri
    keep nasri
    and add to nasri..

  381. Passenal

    I am aware that the wages come from th same pot as the tranfer fees. But not paying a player an extra £10k a week is hardly good business when it means we need to spend £30m to replce that quality.

    Also haing continuity in the squad is pretty dam priceless too. All this upheaval makes it seem like we are stratin over from scratch yet again. I dont have a problem paying Nasri the going rate. (When I say I ont have a prblem, I mean in purely footballing terms. In real life terms, is fucking obscene) But thats the way of the (footall) world.

  382. Everything vaguely Nasri related still sounds like bullshit. Funny watching it all snowball one day and eat itself the next.

    Samba to Arsenal looks much more likely to me. That one actually makes sense. He’ll have to put his fucking skates on though, to keep up with our backline.

  383. Bradys right foot

    OOU just say No lad lol, just seen Cahill linked again . The guy has 12 months left on his deal and is apparently valued at 17 million. Im not anti Cahill I just don’t see him better than Kos TV or JD.

  384. Passenal

    I am aware that the wages come from th same pot as the tranfer fees. But not paying a player an extra £10k a week is hardly good business when it means we need to spend £30m to replce that quality.

    Also haing continuity in the squad is pretty dam priceless too. All this upheaval makes it seem like we are stratin over from scratch yet again. I dont have a problem paying Nasri the going rate. (When I say I ont have a prblem, I mean in purely footballing terms. In real life terms, is fucking obscene) But thats the way of the (footall) world.
    .

  385. Bradys right foot

    Limpar little Chris concerns me, hes a great clogger that not a back handed compliment okay it probably is lol. But we couldn’t play a high line and squeeze up the way we do now. We could concede less from set pieces but more from open play if he played for us.

  386. Gary Cahill? Vaguely recall the name. But he can’t have one year left if sides are willing to pay that amount. Checked wikipedia, but it’s not clear. Could it be that he signed a three-year extension in 2009 to the contract that was due to expire this summer?

  387. Geeez, the media are going hell for eather early with the Arsenal exodus stories this season.

    This is going to get fucking beyond tedious real quick.

  388. Dexter, Paying Nasri 10k extra per week x 52 weeks = £520,000 and if you pay it for one, others will start to demand it too. It’s a slippery slope, which only those inside the club can know whether it’s worth sliding down.

  389. ‘Ello Brady, good to see you around. My only crumb of comfort on that front is that he doesn’t weigh all that much more than Sol did playing that high line last year, and he’s a good deal younger with it! Sol can still haul ass. We don’t see it so much with Samba, being deployed, as he is against Arsenal, directly between keeper, moat and drawbridge…. but I reckon he could run the line if he’s clever with it. Squillaci isn’t super-mobile by any stretch but he keeps the line by playing shrewd and letting his partner attack.

    Still could just as easily be bullshit. I can picture it though…. somehow….. if I squint… a lot.

  390. JJ: “cant beleive we are talking about nzobia replacing nasri…”

    N’Zogbia is 25, is a France international and would probably go for between £8m or £10. What makes you think he’s such an unappealing player?

  391. george rodger

    g69,Do you think J is simply being obtuse 🙂

  392. Half a mill a year vs haing to pay about £20m for a replacement and that replacement having to settle in, acclimatise, move his family over, learn the language, find a house etc etc…

    Nasri for me is top top class and what ever some think of his contributions, for me, he has been excellnt sinve he signed and he will only get better. It wouldbe a minor disaster to let him go, IMO.
    But thats enough, Im off, good night.

  393. Bradys right foot

    Limpar your right m8, Samba wouldn’t look out of place manning the barricades at Helms Deep but I’ve no idea if he can actually play, Everytime i’ve seen him his first touch is a hoofed clearance or header, maybe thats what we need.

  394. Passenal the players only get paid during the season.

  395. since the end of the season I’ve read that Nasri is going t to Milan or united, Cesc to Barcelona, Man city or Madrid. Clichy to every team on the land including Liverpool. Denilson anywhere will do, Bendtner Bayern, Chamakh back to France , Arshavin to Chelsea or Russia , Almunia no idea just leaving, Eboue to QPR , Rosicky somewhere far away, Vela to spain., If the premier league let us play 5 aside then these rumours might be true. Lets face it it is not going to happen… the only possibility out of all these names are Denilson and Bendtner only because they stated they wanted to leave. otherwise its pure shite. Ok you could say Cesc want to go back to Barcelona but the catalans don’t have the money and he is not a priority signing , possibly when Xavi retires then they will make a serious bid for him. As long as they keep coming with their pathetic offers then he will not be leaving. Wenger is more determined than ever to finally get that trophy next season, If these players leave it is like going back 5 year and atsrt all over again. Wenger will not waste his time.
    .
    Oh I forgot to mention their replacements Parker, Cahill, Samba, Odenwinge, larsson, that ivorian with a brazilian name and also a player possibly had his name spelt wrong on his birth certificate Willian … the hacks really have a good sense of humour. Utter crap.

  396. Just to add another nice fact to the Clichy debate: 111 – Gael Clichy made more tackles than any other full back in the 2010-11 Premier League. Combative.
    From OptaJoe on Twitter.
    So we have Cashley, who won the fewest tackles, and Clichy, who tackled the most.

  397. Samba £9 million to Arsenal. It must be true because it is on his Wiki page 🙂

  398. 1loose cannon

    Couldn’t agree any more. The media quite simply hate us. They can’t second guess Wenger so they chuck everything out there. We don’t give them any ammunition in playing their game in the madness of the transfer window (well maybe this year…??), so they have to speculate with all their imagination feeding off any little piece of info. I am not so sure Arsenal did bid that much for Henderson, although Wenger has paid big for young talent before… Theo, Reyes, Jeffers…

    End result of their ill-informed imagination is a 30 yr old top team reject who just got relegated, and a bunch of overpaid Englishmen who barely make the national team. I hope Wenger ignores the lot of them and goes elsewhere personally. Bring in a Frank De Boer type from Holland, or even a classy South American type CB who can juggle the ball over the forwards.

    No matter who we bring in, IMO we need to seriously work hard behind the scenes and put the players through training drills 24-7 to defend set-pieces. We don’t have the luxury of a Barcelona who play teams of similar styles, we have defend against elbows, long throws into the box, put up with 5 players on our keeper, referees who like giving the lesser teams the chance etc etc… Wenger needs to bring in a defensive coach.

  399. mumbai gooner

    why cant we go for kevin nolan from barcodes for DM position

  400. Is it morning yet…….. I’ve just had to walk 6 kms to get home from a party……. but it’s a f*king lovely morning here in the south of France! Can’t believe you guys have been discussing the same thing all night. Did France win last night? Is Diaby injured again? Who have we signed? Has Song changed his hair colour? Do we really need Shawcross in the team? if so, what would Ramsey say about it?
    Oh well, for those ppeople who have to work for a living, remember this, it’s Friday! I’m going to bed.

  401. ChrisG:
    “No matter who we bring in, IMO we need to seriously work hard behind the scenes and put the players through training drills 24-7 to defend set-pieces. We don’t have the luxury of a Barcelona who play teams of similar styles, we have defend against elbows, long throws into the box, put up with 5 players on our keeper, referees who like giving the lesser teams the chance etc etc… Wenger needs to bring in a defensive coach”

    Good point. Its what I’ve been saying all along. We either improve our defending or stop giving away corners and free kicks. Wenger is right in that improving set piece defending is easier in that sense. Although it would be nice if we could – like Barca – deny a team set piece opportunities.
    I’m still amazed at how they didn’t concede a single corner to Manure at the CL final. Not one corner to a team like Manchester United in 90 full minutes of play! Would the likes of Stoke have a hope of even seeing the ball?
    With patience and the right kind of training, no reason why we can’t reach those heights with the kinds of talent we have coming through.

  402. Henristic

    I think so too. Its just a matter of perfecting our game. The best form of defence is to attack, I don’t think anyone can argue against the fact that our attacking play was very 1 dimensional at times. We can add to our defensive game and especially on set-pieces because in open play we have looked very solid. Teams cannot cause us a problem physically in open play any more. Is it realistic to suggest we won’t give away a single corner throughout the 90mins though, I don’t think so. Barcelona are a class act in keeping the ball, I just don’t think they would walk their way to a premiership title. Its why we need to develop that tactical awareness on set-pieces, bring in a coach, or add a few players to help in that area.

  403. Again I agree. We’re sort of caught in between both worlds at the moment and not doing either too well. One can argue that we already keep the ball well enough for a PL team (although there is always room for improvement there)
    But since we play most of our football against long ball teams it makes sense that we upgrade that side of our game. A new and more competent defensive coach would indeed be of help.

  404. Just a quick note of Clichy – statistic lie.

    Clichy wont a lot of tackes yes. But how many times did rush into rash tackles when he should sit and wait? How often did Clichy SLIP and lose the ball in vital situations where we were tied or hanging on to a 1-goal lead?

    Anyone who was watching Clichy the past 2 season understands this.

    The truth is if a game is on the line and Arsenal needs to stop the opponent, Gail Clichy is the LAST player on our squad that you would hope is facing opponent with the pressure on, because you KNOW he would fall or make some stupid mistake when the chips are down.

    Lies, damn lies and statistics

    Let him take his damn statistics to Commolli, another charlatan who has statisics too. Ask Spurs how good the stats were when he was their man.

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