RvP Believes Arsenal Lost Their Way Due To GPS

Players, we are frequently told, are self-obsessed mercenaries who do not care about anyone or anything other than themselves, certainly not what happens to their manager and have no clue how to relate to supporters.

In the latter, Arsenal players through social media sites are ahead of some of their more technophobe peers. Robin van Persie is a voracious user of Twitter but is one of the few players whose reputation has been enhanced this season.

Speaking at a PR event for a popular brand of football boots, the Dutchman said,

In a way, I do understand them because I feel connected with the fans. We have a really good relationship and I do understand them, I do understand their frustrations sometimes.

What can I say else about it? I know that we are giving everything. I am working with the players and I know this.

It depends upon to whom you are speaking as to whether they will identify with the comment about effort. Plenty believe that none has been put in since the title chances evaporated.

In the depths of our own self-obsession, the thought that the players may actually be disappointed is sometimes forgotten. Yet our frustration is built on a despair, a knowledge that matters on the pitch are out of our hands; only encouragement can positively influence them. Too often that encouragement does not come until a passage of play builds it.

An age-old quandry arises, do the collective off the pitch provide the encouragement before the collective on it, or is it vice-versa? It should be the former but in all-seater stadia, it is too often the latter.

The eternal optimism of players in their words was evident from van Persie,

We came close, very very close [to winning the title this season]. One thing is for sure. We need to be more consistent because we have everything in our team. To play at the highest level is to be consistent.

Consistency is not enough on its own. Confidence as well. That was not evident post February, which made the title challenge falter. A collective failure in confidence is not easy to counter but that is why the club employs psychologists. More than them though, it is the job of the manager to instill belief.

The answer may be borne of frustration to some degree.  GPS systems are to blame according to Robin,

Opponents have GPS. They can track us down – how much we run in a game, is he a lazy player, is he defending well, is he attacking, is he running a lot? They know absolutely everything. 

I find this to be an explanation that is partially true but more importantly it hints at the frustrations van Persie (and presumably others) feel. Yes, opponents know where the players are likely to run but it does not always have to be the case that they will run to a certain position.

Part of the praise heaped on Arsenal is the fluidity of their movement and passing. That being the case, GPS will not be that much use unless the fluidity is stylised and demonstrably pre-planned. It would suggest that free thought is not permitted on the pitch, something that is at odds with the evidence of our eyes.

The problem Arsenal face is that opponents know how to frustrate them with banks of midfielders and defenders augmented by forwards hassling and harrying when Arsenal are in possession. The fluidity of play is sometimes predictable. If channelled to the touchline and forced to cross, only van Persie is a real threat in the air and the likelihood is that he will not have any colleagues close by to snaffle chances as Arsenal are slow to support in the area. 

The Emirates did not see one goal from outside of the area this season according to Opta statistics. That underlines the fact that the bad habit of passing into the net re-emerged. I find that frustrating because Arsenal have numerous players who can strike the ball. Frank Lampard made a habit of it and picked up all manner of goals from deflections. Cesc did it last season and ended up with 20 goals. This season, no-one did it successfully in the Premier League which is baffling.

To improve next season? That’s for the manager and team to work out the most effective way.

Elsewhere, Christopher Samba is going to turn Gary Cahill’s ‘dream move‘ into a nightmare and be signed for £12m whilst Carlos Vela might be on his way to West Brom. Or anywhere that he can get first team football. If Arsenal sell him. Andrey Arshavin? He’s off to Fenerbahce, Zenit or possibly Spain. Can’t be long before the ‘I’ve always supported Sporting Gijon‘ stories start.

’til Tomorrow

Posted on May 19, 2011, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 260 Comments.

  1. Baffling is the best word to describe it. I think the absences of both Denilson and, for starting spells, Arshavin and Nik, deepened our hesitancy to fire from long range. Those three always have a pop. Hopefully Deni has imparted that niblet of wisdom to a few door mice on his way off to Sevilla. A truly underappreciated player. Lost his place to Ramsey, then Wilshere, and never complained. I will fondly remember a few Denilson missiles, none more than the 1-0 when we 1-6’d everton to remind england we were still around. segundo?

  2. Good to compare performances at the end of the season.

    The manager and squad have come third or fourth in the league and there is no doubt that there is room for improvement as they would all agree.

    Worryingly though Arsenal supporters have come bottom of that same league, by a country mile actually. I can’t see a recovery in the latter position for some while with players like RedAction, AST and AISA on the pitch. GPS would have shown them missing at key games and important moments, the stadium was not full even for our home game against Mancs I.

    Hang on a minute. Of course. Unless we take route one, the fair weather option. Yep, that could do it. Fair weather option it is then.

  3. In point of fact the GPS remark though probably tongue-in-cheek is a reflection of the preparedness of teams these days and the difficulties in coming out on top in every game.

  4. he’s not sating anything we don’t know

  5. Wenger’s poor judgement is on display again. Persuading Pat Rice to stay on for another year. Every assistant manager discusses his opinions with the manager. And no doubt Rice cares about Arsenal. That’s a given. But the evidence on the pitch ( which is all we have to assess him by ) suggests that 1) Rice is far too passive, and does not speak up either enough, or at all. That means he’s content to go along with what the manager wants = a yes man. Or 2) He DOES see the problems, tells Wenger, and Wenger ignores him.Then he has two choices; he can feel frustrated that he’s being taken for granted, and move on or retire, or stay and be Wenger’s obedient lap dog.
    Either of these scenarios means he’s INEFFECTIVE in his role as an assistant coach. He’s been the deputy now as long as Wenger (?). And we’re still making the same mistakes over and over.They BOTH need to go.
    “In Arsene we rust.”

  6. Frank,
    “There is room for improvement” is a very mild way of stating what we need. It is clubs like ManU who should be using such terms. They won the league but there is room for improvement on their away form and so on….

    We need more drastic measures I’m afraid. Not so much in the sense of overhauling the playing personnel. But definitely in terms of coaching, tactics, and such like.

  7. You, like other ‘supporters’ do like to push the negativity the extra yard, Henristic, my friend. Doesn’t help.

    I don’t like to bum up other sites but this was good..


  8. Dups,

    Its just the opinion of the writer. He might be write, but noone has a clue what Arsene plans to do.

  9. John cross has no proof of anything. He need s to shut his stupid looking face. We all no full well no one gave this fool and interview. So how the hell does he know.
    I cant trust a single word i read these days. thats how bad its become. they all just lie.

  10. *right

  11. dups,

    That will upset fans. What it also does it make it an all or nothing season for Wenger next year. If he refuses to spend money buying proven talent (assuming that money exists) and wins nothing again he leaves the board with very little option but to relieve him of his duties as the clamour for his head will be deafening. If we do go down this route again then we must hope hope the senior players (Vermaelen, Sagna, Clichy, Fabregas, Van Persie) can play 90% of the season which I’m sure would mean silverware as those would be enough to drag the rest over the line when needed IMO.

  12. So you agree with Arseblog in that post Frank?

    Must say I’m suprised.

  13. I know where the opponents run!! Towards our goal and all they have to rely on is a mistake by either the keeper or the defender. One day one messes up the next day another!! I think the biggest mess is AW who still does not see what the fans see a f**ked up back line…

  14. No, I don’t agree with the writer on all aspects, Henristic. Agreeing is not a prerequisite to quality. I simply stated that it was good. Well written and presented the case against spoilt, childish supporters rather well.

  15. I agree with goonerwife

  16. It was written by Tim Stillman (LittleDutch) not Arseblog.

  17. Morning all,
    RvP echoes what to me’s been pretty obvious all year.
    Most of ur lads have been trying their best.
    Sadly, it’s not been enough.
    We do need some change.

    This whole saga has really educated me on how fickle many verbal supporters are. Do they represent the majority?
    I don’t know but I sure hope not.

    For a man, times like this help to clarify:
    who you are
    what you stand for
    where your ultimate loyalty lies.

    Are you:
    a fighter? a believer? a wimp? a leader or follower? a consumer or employer? a gooner or a manc?
    Is it all about the destination? is winning everything?
    or do u value the journey, the process of nurturing?
    do you care at all?
    do you take responsibility or just blame someone else?

    A time like this is special because it nothing forces life-assessment like pain & heartbreak. Whether you’re rich, poor, jobless, ambitious, married, straight, gay or whatever. The human heart is the last vestige of existence.
    For what does your heart beat best?
    To whom does your bell toll?

    I expect AW to make the necessary adjustments, win 1 or 2 (or 3 or 4) trophies, silence the naysayers and keep moving the club forward.

    A spicy Summer awaits…

  18. correction:
    A time like this is special because it forces life-assessment like…

  19. That whole John Cross article was carefully pitched and worded to incense a section of the fans.

    Just to enter his tedious world for a sec – how is Sakho (21, 2 int caps) a proven star, while Gameiro (24, 3 int caps) just an up-and-coming talent? It looks to me like they’ve both emerged over the last three years.

  20. Excellent, Aman

  21. I agree with Big Al

  22. Dups

    I don’t see why they will be upset. All Cross did was read through the last three weeks back pages and regurgitate them. Not an original thought has gone into that piece.


  23. this time in 2018 we will be singing “come back when u have 20”

    keep the faith

    up the arsenal!!!

  24. John Cross is certainly a populist twat. Of course he is playing to the non-Arsenal supporters including what he preceives to be deserters.

  25. there should be a lap of appreciation for the away fans-the true heroes of this season…

  26. I agree with Frank. Some of our supporters really like to push that negative to the end. it always feels like i must be talking to a rival fan. cos they say all the negatives that rival fans use to dig at us. Makes you wonder.

    Whats the point when you cant find the positives in this Arsenal team considering there are many?
    Let me prempt that now by saying if you cant see any positives i cant help you. Please dont ask me silly questions. I have had with rubbish football pundits and their followers.

  27. 1 loose cannon

    YW- Spot on. John Cross repeating all the rumours and rubbish he read in the papers. nothing comes from a reliable souce and to prove this point he said Phil Parkinson is doing coaching work at Arsenal in fact Parkinson is scouting in England for Wenger . He need to at least check the rubbish he writes before publishing it. Lazy journalism.

  28. Song talking to BBC Sport, also acknowledges that something was missing the last few months, but doesn’t say what. I get the impression that they all know what that something is though, and will be working on it.

    Song is a good benchmark for the team as a whole I feel. He is not far away from being a world beater.


  29. SOME of the away fans yes. The away fans booing at a young Alex Song at Fulham was one of the worst pieces of support I have ever witnessed.

  30. John Cross – copy and paster !

  31. I don’t know about you guys, but I have felt that at many of our games this season, we have not been passing enough. I know many fans don’t want to see too much sideways passing but I felt that that was exactly what we needed.

    I remember an incredible amount of sideways passing in 07-08, where we just switched the ball from one edge of the box to another, keeping the ball moving constantly and most importantly, retaining possession. For an attack minded side like ours, it is imperative that we retain possession and not give it away cheaply by trying stupid long range shots or risky passes while the full backs were still moving up the pitch.

    It almost seems as if we have tried to accede to some of the more idiotic fans expectations that we continue to try and pass forward, and thus lose the ball cheaply. I have heard supporters on the telly constantly shouting at the players to shoot from distance, do something special (I’m assuming a skillful dribble as this has been directed at Arshavin more often) or barring either of the two, to fuck off altogether.

    It is clear that this side is on the verge of doing great things, but as supporters, we need to let this side play their natural game, which involves a lot of simple passing to help take control of the game, and also a certain amount of patience, which i suspect many of our more “fair-weather” fans do not possess one iota of.

  32. “That’s what the newspapers say,” he dismisses with a shrug.

    Loved that line. It seems the players don’t hold much stock in what the rags say. Thank fuck cos if they were as easilly led as some of our fans we’d have been relegated.

    I read BBC Sport and this site and as far as I’m concerned all other sports media talk out of their hoops.

  33. A lot of Arse kissing on this site ? A very deep and dark collection of contributors. But the one thing none of you mention, is passion. I wouldn’t care if Villa beat us 3.0 if the team fought tooth and nail, but I just don’t see it. All I see is a forlorn Manager on the sideline pleading with the ref for every descision arguing with who ever might listen to him. Arms stretched wide pleading to the universe. Is this the man that rallies his young proteges, or is he the man that makes them cry off at the first twinge of a muscle to be nursed and protected and praised when he has done nothing to be praised for ? I think besides the new recruits we know we need next season, there is a lot of work to be done on the top 4 inches.

  34. I happen to think the exact opposite of Cross. I think we might see a bit of a shift in our trasnfer dealings this summer. Arsene seems exasperated and I think it is dawning on him that some of the players he has invested so much faith into, have simply let him down. He has been ruthless in the past, and I think he will be again.

  35. Change is obviously required, the last 2 months have highlighted beyond question that this team lacks the necessary tools & more so winning attitude.

    Many people are hoping that Arsene now abandons his “project” and throws caution to the wind with a raft of sales & signings, bringing in the additional quality & experience lacking at present. For him to do this would not only represent a major shift in approach but also undermine all he has set out to achieve these past 6 years.

    I’m don’t think he could bring himself to do this and even if he did where would his self belief take him when these changes suffered set backs. At present he’s no doubt confident of addressing the current failings but if he goes in another direction he’ll not only question the wisdom of that shift but also start to doubt his own ability to pursue his values. If you’re not confident in what you doing it’s impossible to commit to it and if your not fully committed to your job success is unlikely. So he may tweak a bit here and there but to expect a sea change is unrealistic I feel, it wouldn’t be Arsene after all.

  36. AahahahaAHAHAHA!!!! hahahahahahahaha! http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/a-moment-in-time-170511.html HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Heheheheheee…..bejeesus…wow… sorry. HA! Hehhehehehe HAHAHA!!! Brilliant. Just brilliant. Love it. I think it’s real!

  37. Terry the mistake you’re making there is in thinking the opinions you read in newspapers are shared by supporters.

    Andy: “the players he has invested so much faith into, have simply let him down.”.

    Give me an example so I know where you’re coming from.

  38. Markus – As a collective, the past couple of months is good evidence.

  39. Bloody hell, what were they thinking? “A Moment in Time”, “Aero Bang Tottenham”, and is it me or are those photos horribly pixellated – it took me a while to work out what the first picture was meant to be.

    The second’s easy; it’s an overpriced luxury item – wearing a tacky timepiece.

  40. Ha! Very good, OOU.

    ‘A Moment in Time’…. ‘Aero Bang Tottenham’ …. it could well be a ‘wind-up’.

  41. I can’t see Wenger winning over the fans who last faith in him the season after the invincible’s season.

    We could finish 2nd by a single point next season and lose out in the Champions League final in penalties and nobody would appreciate the fact Wenger has transformed a new team into a squad which is capable of challenging on all 4 fronts.

    Ok we fell short in all of them, we should have won the CC, the league and could have progressed past the best team ever to exist. Lets not let the this bad run and end of season collapse overshadow the progress we have made. The most frustrating thing about this season was the fact that Wenger assembled a squad that had the talent and ability to take a few trophies. I honestly and seriously doubt another manager can come in and do a better job with the resources he has had. I don’t want to see a Mourinho type come in and spend 50m on Benzema for us to find out he cant even pass the ball.

    Wenger just needs to address why the players couldn’t kill the smaller teams off, why we couldn’t show any kind of creativity and desire going forward, why our home form is so awful, and why we crumble at the end of the season – ruining the hard work that came beforehand.

    I may be one of the more optimistic supporters, but prior to the CC final we were looking very good, yet we all knew we should have been cruising in the league.

    For me this team has underachieved massively. Its strange as our manager has always managed to turn a players career around, and more often than not get the most out of them.

    I hope he corrects it. If he gets our A game going again like he did with the invincibles the rest won’t matter. We were never a solid team defensively under Wenger.

  42. I agree Goonerandy.

    He has looked seriously disappointed at times. Wenger will never come out and publicly criticize a player – no manager should really unless the player is Rooney who just purposefully flattened a player with a flying elbow! I do think he will look to offload a few this time round.

  43. “The Member of Parliament who supports every proposal for strengthening the monopoly is sure to acquire not only the reputation of understanding trade, but great popularity and influence with an order of men whose numbers and wealth render them of great importance. If he opposes them, on the contrary, and still more if he has the authority to be able to thwart them, neither the most acknowledged probity, nor the highest rank, nor the greatest public services can protect him from the most infamous abuse and detraction, from personal insults, nor sometimes from real danger, arising from the insolent outrage of furious and disappointed monopolists.”

    -Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations (1776)

    Reminded me of Arsene/Arsenal vs. The English Media.

  44. Indeed Limpar

    Not only did our team crumble, our fans have been crumbling under the scrutiny from long before. I hope Arsene stands strong.

  45. I feel sorry for Wenger more than anybody because he’s the one who is carrying the flack for the lazy don’t give a shit attitude that some of the players he put trust in are showing. But, at the same time Wenger continued with these players when it was quite clear that certain players are just not up to it and have serious concentration problems which lead to stupid mistakes which in turn led to us falling at Wembley and still falling now.

    The great man know’s who they are and will have to get a mean streak and let them go. Bring in a couple of good to go MEN not cheap arse French players, and see what happens. Might as well and see what happens as the current policy clearly isn’t working and has now created a massive rift between fans of the same club. The current policy works up to a point then it’s groundhog day.

    I didn’t realise how deep the Arsenal fan divide is at the moment until I checked out some of the blogs on other sites. I don’t like to see it but, some points are valid but, most of them beyond madness.

    Chris Samba and Cahill are on the way which I don’t know what that will mean for who we already have. Just awaiting the City bid for Cesc then we can take it from there and Wenger is about to jack it in!

    It’s going to like when PV was with us and every summer for 3yrs he was leaving. I would love to see a hard working battler organiser like Samba at our club along with Gorkan Inler.

    More importantly I would like to see more changes regarding the tactical side of things when we get sussed out which it seems every team in the EPL
    has done in the last few months. Very frustrating seeing us try the same things over and over then Bendtner coming on to play as winger.

    We have got collectively better quality players than any other team in the EPL so what has happened to us over the last 3yrs is hard to explain but, I think it’s clear to see that Wenger has been let down and they need to go.

  46. Jabba's delights

    Chris Goona

    Everything you have writtent here i agree with in terms of ths issues and the questions you ask. The problem being they have been there for all to see for 3 years. This is why many are upset. They want to see improvement form the team.

    I dont want to here ”we were great until february” because firstly we werent great we came 2nd in our cl group and had lost 5 prem matches already, and secondly that discounts a quarter of the season to go the most important quarter, and quite frankly we have been abysmal fro 11 weeks now which is completely unaccepatble

  47. Frank John Cross is the journalist close to Arenal ask anyone at AST or any supporters that have met him

  48. Terry T,

    Good point. He can’t change it all now and I hope he doesn’t because as you said his heart wouldn’t be in what he’s doing. Wenger doesn’t need to listen to the media as they were also the same people calling him a genius for changing the modern game and the way players look after themselves.

    I want change for sure but, just a few tweaks and shot of the deadwood crap we have on the books.

  49. george rodger

    I agree with Frank and Chris .
    I always agree with Frank and Cris.
    I am a yes man.
    Oh and LA as well,hes always right .
    Oh and Markus and Goonerswife.
    nd Paul N.
    I hope John Cross is on ATVO this week then I can phone in and tell him what all my better educated friend from Aclf think about him.
    I have said this before but Tom Watt seems to like him.Now Tom is a real pure gold gooner so perhaps he (John)is not as much of a prick as his articles suggest.Then again…………………

  50. At this point nobody wants to hear how ‘overall we had a good season because nobody expected us to even be in the top 10 let alone the top 4′. Nobody wants to hear that this is a young team which will get better. They were a young team and, if we finish fourth this season won’t have got better at all. Last season we finished with 75 points, the most we can attain this season is 70. Under no circumstances can we claim any kind of progression.

    reality check, and THIS IS from arse blog

  51. george rodger

    I am going to have to check things before I press “Post Comment” because that was a right load of rubbish.

  52. george rodger

    Boomer with all due respect,that is horse shit.
    If the teams at the bottom are taking more points then the teams at the top must get less.
    Unless you know some sort of maths that I am unaware of.
    Hear is another bit of news for you.Arseblogs opinion is just that,an opinion.

  53. Boomer,

    So we’ve seen no progress this season? So Nasri and Theo haven’t proved their doubters wrong yet? How about the Wilshere? Isn’t that progress in the middle of the park? We knew Nasri and Theo, were good, but we all had our concerns. They’ve showed now what they’re capable of, and hopefully next season, they can do that on a more consistent basis.

    What about we fighting till late april? The team was still in it. Wasn’t last season. I see alot of progress from this team. We’re all dissapointed because we came very close to winning this season.

    Points is one measure of determining proression. But there are other tools to measure progress as well. So why did you pick the one that showed that we regressed? Says more about you than the team.

  54. I think Frank’s aware that Cross has got contacts at the club, Sol. Last season he got a few details right, some days in advance, but there’s more to being a good journalist than having good sources. He’s a slimy c*nt, first off; he’s spent the last couple of years sidling up to our more hysterical fans, and that article was classic shit-stirring. Don’t believe for one second that he’s interested in anything other than creating more misery for Arsenal.

    At any rate there’s no way he’d have any idea what our plans are so early on.

    I dread to think how he’d represent the toadying he’s done in his CV. Something like:

    “I maximized my rapport with my target audience through strategic development of my social media competence, proactively establishing trust, which effected increased hits, helping to generate an upswing in advertising revenues over 7 quarters.”

  55. ChrisGoona

    The big question is have we progressed? I don’t think we have.

    This is Wenger’s worst ever season – we have been conceding the same goals, and failing to break down the same teams for nearly 3 years.

    For me, it doesnt have to do with the talent of the first 11 – victories against Chelsea, United, Barca and City prove that. But poor attitude and effort amongst the media whore squad players(who know who) is appauling.

    I dont think Wenger should be sacked, yet. He is still an unbelievable manager, and one who has taken this club to heights unimaginable, but he HAS to be accountable for the actions of this team.

    Squillaci and Chamakh have both been flops, either way you look at it, these were HIS solutions to our poor cover at CB and striker. They both have failed.

    United signed Smalling and Hernandez – its hardly a debate to see who got it right.

    Wenger needs to act quickly and ruthlessly in the transfer window to prove he still has the desire to win, otherwise to we need to respectfully thank the great man for his incredible achievments and find a manager who can take us to the next level.

  56. Our current squad are short, they aren’t crap or they wouldn’t be where they are all be it just hanging in there right now. Our problem as far as I can see is to more with mental issues demonstrated with our form after Wembley.

    Just that little tweak of a player or players who have the mental toughness to bring the team through after such losses. Losing one game shouldn’t effect your whole fucking season as it did ours.

    Just going to take a look at the award winning John Cross article.

  57. george rodger

    Luke,Chamakh was a flop because he had to move aside for the best striker in the league.How the fuck can anyone ,other than a half-wit,say he was a flop?
    He was scoring and assisting more than Hernandez up until Xmas.
    Stop talking shit please.

  58. What happened to you Luke? Were you always this gloomy? How badly do you need trophies?

    Could it be the case that the doomers, given how pathetic their views are, have some personal issues of never having done anything worthwhile in their lives themselves, so they demand that the team the follow, at least they bring them some trophies? Sense of achievement. Lazy buggers.

  59. John Cross is still trying to ‘get nasty’.

    An uncredible hack jobsworth.

  60. Chaps,

    Ive said nothing about the need for trophies. I for one, dont believe anyone can demand trophies, its ridiculous.

    But 100% work rate and a conscious effort to address your weaknesses should be a foregone conclusion in elite professional sport no?

    I’m not a doomer or a fair weather fan, or whatever other terms you have coined here, I simple have stated our progression over the last three years is not as apparent as you would believe.

    For a club that talks about mental strength and fighting to the end on a daily basis, we should at least show these characteristics on the pitch no?

  61. Luke,

    We should indeed be showing this on the field. Some players have and some haven’t been for sure.

    The wins are brilliant and I am a sore loser but, not so much about the losing it’s the way we lose. That’s what pissed me off in the last half of our season.

  62. Also George,

    That may be the case re: Chamakh v Hernandez pre Christmas. But how did it play out:

    One worked his little socks off for every minute of every day, ending up dislodging the leagues top scorer and going on to scoring over 20 goals in his maiden season and being crucial to his sides success. The other, when dropped, accepted it, dropped his head, claimed he needed a holiday because he was tired, and got worse and worse by the week.

    Like I said, effort, and a desire to address your weaknesses

  63. george rodger | May 19, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Thanks as it saved me doing it. I also read the J Cross and his bum chum Darren Lewis. The later is asking that we should all show sorrow for Pool and Spuds.

    He continually get’s on TV telling everybody how bad Arsenal have done and how Wenger is this and that and what Wenger needs to do but, Wenger team is above both teams his chatting about?!

    This is a writer for a so say big paper making fuckall sense to me. I posted him asking if Wenger is so bad how comes his team will be finishing well above the teams you say have done good but, been unlucky?

    They all chat shit and some people digest in haste and ask for more.

  64. So just some personal abuse from internet warriors, and no counter argument of our progression?

    Oh wait, as Frank says. Its all the fans fault. Especially when we were 2-0 against the Spuds and The Emirates was rocking, or how about the carnival at St James Park?

    ALL the fans fault.

  65. You are conflating two concepts AND exaggerating for effect, Luke.

  66. Yogi: I say it every day because its true. Another good post. You have a winning streak of about 5,000.

    Even though I have never seen Sakho play from what I have heard he would be my first choice. Samba would be a good fit if someone like Sahko or Subotic is not available. Samba is tall strong and is a good defender. Additionally he is a beast on set plays on both ends of the pitch. I have no idea of the stats but I suspect we are close to the top of the league in taking corners and probably near the bottom in set pieces goals scored. No better way to move the parked bus then to score the first goal and a set piece goal would be a great part of Plan B. We can certainly afford to have 1 of our 4 CB’s who is not quite as pacey but is strong enough to stand his ground against the Drogba’s, Carrolls, Nolan’s of the PL. Would be a good start to the summer.

  67. luke – right on.
    personally i am glad the season is nearly over. its been like trying to pushbike up a mountain with a shattered knee.

  68. Very true Trev, this is easily Wenger’s most critical summer.

    Frank – there was no exagerration, just referencing history. Newcastle, widely accepted as the beginning of the end, was the players fault.

    No excuses. Diaby was petulant, Yes Barton/Nolan got away with murder, but will we mature and learn how to win when its not in our favour?

  69. Have we progressed this season? Hard to answer really, and there are arguments both ways. Will will finish the season with less points that last, as as Arsene uses the lge as the measuring stick it would be hard to argue that we have progressed as a team. I think Arsene really thought that this would be the year the team came of age, and that is one of the reasons why he seems so downbeat.

  70. Goonerton at 1.15..

    Exactly. The manner of defeats have been gut wrenching. The amount of times we have lost. and players have trudged off the pitch having only given 75% is disgraceful.

    Even though they lost, I was mightly impressed with Forrests performance against Swansea, they ensured that every last ounce of effort was left on the pitch.

    A commendable performance.

  71. Luke we have all been waiting for this fantastic young team to reach the top but I have given up hope, the youngsters are not so young and have played in many games and this season was our best chance for the EPL.

    Squllachi is complete rubbish and though Koscelny may make it eventually he still made some serious mistakes in quite a few games that cost us points, we should have got Samba in January.

    All the comments from players like Sagna on how great things are come from the PR department as all comments and interviews have to be signed off by them we have had so much spin I am feeling dizzy.

    Players like Almunia Denilson who we want to get rid of earn 40K A WEEK, who do you think will pay that amount and even when we got 40 million for Ade and Toure it didnt go out on getting new players as Liverpool did when they sold Torres. Wengerspin has been a good manager but with no one to query him he has become a dictator.

    My worry is that if we dont get in the top 4 next year the Europa Cup and mid table beckons. Unfortunately we picked the wrong new owner SKE will do little whereas Usmanov was prepared to invest in a real transfer fund and I am sure would have not let Wengerspin get away with hos own obstinate ways

  72. AW did not look particularly downbeat in his press conference today. In fact he seemed quite chipper and very insightful. He is one of the good guys. Good luck to him.

  73. You gave up hope years ago, solgooner, as YWs archives will testify. I suspect you were born without hope.

  74. just a thought…..
    did you blindfaithers ever stop to think that you may be part of the problem at Arsenal ?

  75. For someone like Solgooner, its always easier to take the other approach.

    FUCK OFF!!

  76. Thought?

  77. Frank – I meant in recent weeks in general. He has looked pretty downbeat (understandably). Despite is 100% backing, his players have let him down. I feel for the guy. As I said earlier, I think he will make some significant changes in the summer.

    Despite recent seasons going belly up, has always resited sweeping changes as he was confident that his players would come good. At the crucial point of this season, they fell apart. He is an astute man, so whilst disapointed, he knows what need to be done. I have every faith in him.

  78. Good. I presume you mean faith in him solving the problem?

  79. I had a go at Arshavin yesterday, but this notion of “effort” is pretty subjective. Far too vague an idea to be able to rate with a percentage anyway.

    What people perceive to be a lack of effort might be a tactical issue – a lack of runners. We have a lot of attacking players who like the ball to feet, but don’t tend to gamble too often when someone else has the ball, which I think could be quite important on those tough away days at places like Stoke when the other side sits deep. That could be addressed easily without massive changes.

    Not suggesting he’s ready or anything, but Afobe does a selfless Ivica Olic-style job for Huddersfield; he’s quick, wide as a bus and doesn’t stop running, and the other side absolutely hated it last night.

  80. Calling Chamakh a flop just goes to show what some people know about football. Fuck all that is.

    To equate dislodging Berbatov to dislodging RVP is ludicrous. Chamakh has hardly played in the second half of the season, not because he couldn’t be arsed but because he had the best striker in the league ahead of him, in ridiculously good form.

  81. Opta Statistics
    Arsenal @ Sunderland – Cesc’s goal, wasn’t it from 40 meters?

  82. I agree with Jo Bo. Marouane will be fantastic next year, and so will Robin.

  83. I am sure the GPS thing is slightly toungue in cheek from RVP. Hope so anyway.

    I suspect part of the reason we have become predictable is the other teams have figured out how to defend against us. The league has done a better job of knowing which space to cover and it forces us to move the ball into the areas they choose. We offer almost no realistic threat when the ball is on the wing and by crowding the space in the middle of the park we are forced to use that space. When there is not space in the middle we ping the ball around 35 yards from goal and on the flanks and thus we are predictable. Obviously we don’t want to give the ball away but after 2 years of this its become painfully obvious that in an increasingly high portion of our games 65 – 70% of possession is not always a good thing. Perhaps what we do would work better in Spain, but we are not Barca and 2 years of this has proven we can not consistently imitate what they do in our league. We somehow need to change our tactics so we can add more counter attacking threat and get the ball into the final 1/3 before the other teams can organize.

  84. What I just fail to understand is how we can defend like champions against teams like Chelsea (soaked up a lot of pressure after they scored one in December to keep us ahead), Barcelona (after we got in front they attacked us relentlessly but our defense just wouldn’t break. Same in the second leg in the first 45 minutes until Cesc’s moment of madness) or ManU (recent game) and then we play Stoke or Bolton or even Aston Villa and it seems that all is forgotten? I just do not see any logic when people say that we can’t defend … because we can defend against the very best teams in the world. It must be clearly a mental issue that turns us from world beaters into whatever you want to call the team that lost 3 – 1 against Stoke.

  85. “Nobody wants to hear that this is a young team which will get better. ”

    Cover your ears then.

    Luke Chamakh a flop? He carried us in the first 4 months of the season. Came right into the hardest league in the world and performed.

  86. @Matoo
    You might have a point. If we compare Barcelona to us, it’s evident that they are less direct than we are. However, they have no problem holding the ball in the opposition half for 5 minutes, just patiently waiting for an opening or someone to make a run etc. Our team, on the other hand, will usually end up playing a hopeful cross to no one when faced with a disciplined defense and that way lose the ball.

  87. Andy @ 2:34:

    You are man of great faith and patience. I hope your right.

  88. Frank – Yup, I still believe he is the right man to take us forward.

    Bill – In my mind Arsene has earnt our patience.

  89. OOU @ 2:35 – That is bang on. The majoirty of our players are always attracted to the ball when one of our players have it. We seem to have too many “playmakers”. I think that is why we are struggling to stretch teams. This has not been the case all season though; in the early parts we were very direct, and had plenty of people getting beyond the ball.

  90. The point about long range shots is true and interesting. Strange too.

    I never listen to negative Arsenal fans. Try it, it works! This side of the equator most football fans admire Arsenal, especially Liverpool supporters for some reason; and Arsenal fans don’t give up. ManU and Chelsea fans are typically dysfunctional types with big bellies and nobody likes them or listens to them. C’est la vie.

    Anyway, what van Persie says is really interesting. What it means to me is that there is a ‘method’ to containing Arsenal, and exploiting weaknesses, it works, sometimes and is shared to some degree. If true, it would explain a lot that gets hotly debated on ACLF. I have suspected for some time that, realistically, for many teams the Arsenal fixture is a benchmark affair. Since Arsenal play the best football, you have to raise your game, study the style and players, and to beat them or contain them is big achievement. The last thing you do is try to play the Arsenal way (although big ups to Blackpool and one or two others who did try). We lost a bit of fluidity in the last 8 weeks (our usual method of winning) and I wonder why? Moves that normally simply worked stopped working maybe. Confidence levels were emphatically higher in the first half of the season.

  91. That we have progressed is undeniable, but that’s another story for another day.

  92. Jo Bo,

    Thanks for the swearing and the assumptions.

    1) I never said/implied that dislodging RVP was as easy as dislogding Berbatov

    2) Chamakh in his recent interview accepted his fate as benchwarmer when RVP returned. Cracking personal drive that.

    3) He himself said he was tired after a few months

    We waited two years for him – our great striker to take over from RVP when he has his traditional 3 month lay off. Are you happy with him? He started well, but he has been shocking since November.

    Why is it impossible for some people to accept Wenger is human and can make mistakes?

    For the record, I’d keep Chamakh at the club as our No 3 striker. It begs the question why RVP hasnt been supplemented with sufficient quality sooner.

  93. Zim – There is a “method” to containing any team. But if said team is simply too good, or tactically aware enough the method often fails to work. We are neither.

    If we are the top of our game, whatever method put in place against us will generally fail as we can be an exceptional football team. If we are not on our game, our inability to chnage the way we play means that the opposition tactic usually works against us. If we are not playing well we look a very easy team to defend against.

  94. Evil:

    You pick out 2 – 3 games that we play well and then make the assumption that it proves we have remarkable ability and eventually we can play that way all the time. The first 25 games of the 07/08 season we were one of the best defensive teams in the league and led the league by 8 points. After that we have gone on a 3 year run of poor defending. Those 25 games turned out to be a run of good form but not reality. This year we have had stretches of good defending but in the end we will probably concede more goals then last. The correct level is defined by what happens over the course of a season and not 2 – 3 good games. That seems so obvious.

  95. Zim – “That we have progressed is undeniable, but that’s another story for another day.”

    It is very deniable. Are we any better than last year? The lge table says not.

  96. Some stats:

    Fabregas – Total Apps: 303 in 8 years
    Clichy – 264 in 8 years
    RVP – 229 in 7 years
    Eboue – 213 in 6 years
    Sagna – 175 in 4 years
    Alumina – 175 in 7 years
    Walcott – 173 in 5 years

    All stats from Arsenal.com.

    Every player above is in the top 120 most capped Gooners of all time.

    How long are we a ‘young’ team for?

  97. Wouldn’t it be funny if change was exactly what was NOT required, but rather consistency and faith (since we are hardly in command of all the facts) and almost everyone was wrong. Still, I see a defender and striker joining, just a hunch, and two leaving. I see a couple of interesting youth additions, and very much look forward to seeing more of Frimpong. I suspect AW awaits all the facts (unlike us) before making silly decisions, and some specific statistics and ‘rewinds’ to justify any decision.

  98. Bill – Good point. You could just as easily hold up our last a handful of games since the CC final to prove just how woeful and toothless we are. We are capable of both for sustained periods. Inconsistant.

  99. RvP has grown up this season. His actions on and off the pitch – he has evolved as a mature Arsenal player – LEADER.

    In most reputed football circles (managing), players don’t reach their maturity until 25/26 yrs of age.

    *For the Arsenal teams of ’96 – 06′ – what were the ages of the starters?

    Arsenal have an abundance of ‘young’ talent who have not reached maturity. Regardless of their raw talent Nasri, Theo, and Jack could not sustain a level of consistency.

    Talent and maturity delivers consistency.

    Look at vP – how many goals in how many matches? Robin has been with the club for how many years? Has he ever scored 20+ goals a season?

    1st season in the Premier league for Chamakh, Squillaci, and Koscielny. All three made a good contributions.

    Djourou : never played much while Gallas/Toure were CBs. Missed all of last season – then returns this year and makes an impression with every fan. Still only 24.

    Team sport……so the play of our backs will mirror the ups and downs of those in front of them.

    Great times are ahead for the club.

  100. Luke he was playing a game every 3 days for those first 3 months because Bendtner and VP were injured. Burned himself out a bit, granted and didn’t have a good winter. Scored 11 goals from 40 odd appearances (a lot as a late sub) and broke two records in his first season with us though.

    Not a bad start to his Arsenal career.

  101. been away for a while and not properly caught up.
    am i right in thinking we’ve been taken over by a nearly rich dude who aint gonna spend any money.
    well run club, eh.

  102. Song, Diaby, Bendtner and Denilson have played over 600 games combined.

    All flirting around the 150 mark.

    Thats nearly 5 full league campaigns,

    Have they progressed sufficiently?

    Sagna, RVP. Wilshere, Djourou, Sczesney, Ramsey, Kolscieny, Fabregas are all examples of when AW has it right. They develop and learn quickly – they have all improved in their own short and long Arsenal careers.

  103. Markus

    I’d say its par for the course, just.

    I certainly have not seen enough from him to suggest we dont need to sign a No 2 striker.

  104. “Progress” – whatever way you want to look at it – is not measured by league position alone, although that is one measurement. I see progress. I see the emergence of a truly great keeper. I get excited by the prospect of Verm and Kos (who is just good). I am pretty happy with Djourou’s progress, despite some inconsistency. I am amazed by Wilshere. I suspect Ramsey is not far behind either, and what a shame he missed so much. I think RvP has proved that really he is a top performer, after a dreadful few seasons of injury. I see tangible improvement in Walcott. I see Nasri beginning to say few things about his vast potential. Even our detractors think we have two of the best right and left backs in the EPL. Song continues to make progress. This is all progress. On the negatives I would like to see Diaby back to his true form, Arshavin less but also more effectively used, Cesc attacking more and scoring, a replacement for Skilly who has failed, and mainly Vermaelenback on the field.

  105. ZimPaul

    All individual development?

    How about progress as a team:

    – Have we learnt to hold onto a lead? No
    – Have we learnt how to defend set pieces? No
    – Have we been crying for a GK and CB for nearly 3 years? Yes (thank god for Sczensey, and the injuries that got him his starting berth)
    – Do we still fail to break sides down? Yes
    – Do we have our worst points total in 5 years? Yes
    – Have our GA and GF stats improved? No

    You speak encouragingly of players who excite the hell out of me too – I would just like to see some logic applied to our shortcomings, and at least have a crack at addressing them.

  106. Luke – I would say Song has definately progressed. I think he needs a bit of competition fo rhis place though. Never a bad thing.

    Zim – That is great, but it is a team game. And we are worse off than last year in the lge. That is not improvment no matter how much you dress it up.

  107. Frank go back in the archives and see how many of your predictions have proved right exactly NIL.

    For years AIC and I praised AW but asked he strengthen the team and the defensive coaching he never did now we are worse off than last year.

  108. Luke. you make terrible arguments. “No excuses. Diaby was petulant, Yes Barton/Nolan got away with murder” diaby pushes a guy that just got away with murder and diaby is sent off. LOL

  109. ah sorry luke that was pretty harsh. one area where we have made progress is the “arsenal can’t beat the big sides” shindig. Sadly beating the big sides came along with drawing to lower table sides.

  110. William – But which bit of that was wrong? None of it.

  111. @ Bill
    I looked at the team’s performance in 07/08 season differently.

    Our attacking play up to Eduardo’s and Rosicky’s injuries was the talk of ALL football.
    We moved the ball from the defending third into the attacking third with amazing speed, accuracy, and fluidity – BETTER THAN BARCA’S BEST NOW.

    Our offensive threat was so intimidating – we maintained ball possession and when we lost the ball players fought to win it back.

    In the 20 matches that Hleb and Rosicky started together (or played together at any time) Arsenal won 17 matches and tied 3. Both of these ball players had the skill, but it was their maturity that we are now missing in our midfield. Their IQ without the ball combined with the presence of a high IQ Cesc and the hard work of Flamini – THE PERFECT STORM.

    When Rosicky was injured for the entire next season, Hleb and Flamini moved to greener pastures, what happened to the same defense that next season?

  112. Drawing? Don’t forget the losing as well. I would say that is more significant.

  113. GA – my apologies, he should be on that list, only this year however

    William – Diaby raised his hands, his red card was deserved. It was a petulant response.

    Oh, we were 4-0 up at this point with 35 mins to play.

    Are you saying that by Nolan advoiding a red card (4-1 at this point) was the sole reason we failed to hold on?

    What does that say about the team William?

  114. Just seen your second post William….

  115. Luke – Worse still; it only took Newcastle 22mins to catch us up, not 35 😦

  116. Arsession,

    Thats an interesting comparison, and I’d have to agree.

    2007/08 was certainly the best football post Invincibles – we had a real plan B in Adebayor too.

    He was amazing when he tried/cared/didnt sell his soul

  117. george rodger

    Luke,Just out of interest .Where do you think we should be finishing,given our relative spending power?
    If you play 300 games by the time you are 22 ,guess what?You are still only 22.Still a young man.Still not the finished article.
    Rvp ,Sagna,Clichy and Arshavin are .And they are top players.So if the others progress as Arsene expects them to(and even someone like you should admit he is a better judge of talent than you are)we will have many more top players.
    All it takes is belief and patience.Neither of which some of our petulant spoiled brat fans have, it seems

  118. I recall the game away to Citeh as our high point in 07/08 Eddy and Adebayor working together to slaughter the opposition – 4 bleeding 4 -2

  119. personally i’d rather not talk about that game. okay Newcastle got two goals legally then flopped their asses off for the other two! sport (football in particular) has a whole new breed of players. The kind that is actively looking to deceive the ref to gain an advantage for his team. People on this site slate Eboue (the clown diver who helped us beat barcalona) and chamakh for going down easily. In my opinion they are following the “if you can’t beat them, join them” I was watching pool vs spurs and Dawson went down easily under a challenge from Suarez. Suarez immediately starts yelling and kicks Dawson while he is on the ground. Hypocrites of the highest order i tell you. There is a whole new level of cunt-ary in football, i believe it is led by fucks like C. ronaldo and barcalona.

  120. Zim:

    A couple of the individual players have progressed but there is no way to logically argue that we have improved as a team.

    The fact that our team is still young tells another story.. 4 -5 years ago we started with a core of young players that we all predicted would be easily dominating the PL by now. A couple of the players have improved individually and some have regressed and some have hit a plateau. We have replaced some of that core with younger players. Clearly the group did have not progress and mature together as a team in anything like the way we had hoped and predicted. Cesc is unsettled, Nasri in his last year of contract we may have to almost start over with another generation of young players. This season has not provided any realistic hope that the team is moving to mature together in a positive manner. We don’t abandon project youth but for the sake of the players such as RVP and Cesc etc we need to make some significant changes in the way we approach the transfer market and in our tactics and perhaps coaching methods this summer.

  121. George,

    Thank you for calling me a petulant spoilt brat.

    I have never insinuated I am a better judge of player than Wenger!?!? Clichy is hardly a top player. In fact, I would say he is signifacntly worse than in 2008.

    We have been waiting for nearly 5 years and 200 games for some of our players to develop. Smalling and Hernandez have shown this season that they are prepared to fight for improvement, I cant say that about Denilson, Diaby, Bendtner – who despite being young relatively, are all VERY experienced footballers now.

    Fabregas himself cited the fact that he and RVP are senior players as ridiculous. Have you ever thought (and Im playing devils advocate here) that Wengers neglect of senior players, has inadvertly hampered the develoopment of his young charges as there is no seniority to learn from/ to lean on?

  122. also i feel like i am fitting in with all you lot a bit better now. I’ve got my first 9-5 and i am minimizing ACLF everytime i hear footsteps.

  123. Ah solgooner, alas my predictions are indeed often wrong. If that were not the case then I would have made enough money to buy the club. But that is not the point is it, sunshine?

  124. Zimpaul you are a star

  125. George

    Sorry, to answer your question.

    To be in the title race with 10 games to go, I would like us to be there or there abouts coming into the final weekend. As i have said earlier, you cant demand titles.

    I would also like people to accept that when Wenger spends, he can get it wrong – Squillaci. I would also like people to recognise the portion of transfer budget blown on salary increases and new contracts from Rosicky et al.

  126. george rodger

    Bill.You are assuming we all want to change the training methods and transfer policies.
    Some of us a hopeful that the team will mature and we will win thing because we have shown patience and faith.
    If we do it will mean more that if we “buy”it.
    And not forgetting that we cant compete with the big spenders anyway.

  127. Always seems a little unfair that Arsenal staff salaries are included in the wage bill calculation and those of other clubs are not. It is always stated and always ignored.

  128. George, but Bill makes a great point re: maturity

    Our core of players 5 years ago have failed to deliver on thier promise. 5 EPL season, 5 CL campaigns, a WC for most and nearly 200 games is enough time to assess a players quality.

    Bill correctly highlights these players are now replaced with younger players.

  129. george rodger

    Luke .So to sum it up you would like people to accept that you are a better football manager than Arsene Wenger.And that your beliefs are more valid than mine,because I cant see what you know in your infinite wisdom.
    Is that about right?

  130. I agree with george rodger.

  131. That’s exactly it George.

    Thanks for the insightful chat.

  132. Arsesession, your example of Hleb and Flamini leaving is exactly why keeping the team together is always more important that buying for me. It is why Wenger only buys when he needs to replace, and I think with a big enough squad competition for places should exist anyway without having to bring in new players.

  133. george rodger

    They were replaced by youngsters because our finances dictated it.
    I know you dont want to look beyond the results when the final whistle is blown but the board had to.

  134. Of course you do Frank.

    He also agrees that there is nothing wrong at all with our club and NEXT year will be the one.

    There is an obvious, strong and rationale argument that we need tweaking as a football club.

    Why is this so criminal to talk about?

  135. Jabba's delights

    Spot on Luke.

    George Rodger, many gooners grips is the fact that our spending power is much stronger than we make out. We choose to give , Diaby, Denilson, Rosicky, Bendtner , Vela cash increases instead of investing. We choose to not spend our full budget……nobody else makes not.

  136. Who speaks of criminality. Many ‘gooners’ appear to have lost their grip

  137. george rodger

    And what is wrong with not thinking there is something wrong with our club?
    I believe in Arsene and the Arsenal model.If there is something wrong with our club then every other club is shafted,fucked , Caputo, shagged.Because we are the best club in the world and I get furious when our own fucking fans think otherwise.

  138. It is tweaking you want is it, Luke?

  139. Jabba's delights

    Here we are again and lets see for once if you can answer the one question you get asked each day but cry off rather than an answer.

    Why if wenger has us on the right track and we hardly need any tweeking have we had a poorer season than last and have the same points total as 5 years ago with a very similar goals for and against ratio????

    I imagine your answer will be as per usual……..nothing.

    (also let me get it out there i dont demand titles and nor to i advocate spending 1 single penny which we dont have )

  140. I remember someone saying that the invincibles lost confidence after the unbeaten streak was robbed in the United match (I wonder why that great Arsenal team didnt overcome the bad ref decisions). Now these were all VERY mature players but couldnt really get back on tracj after that loss. Now if a team of players who had played many games and were older could lose confidence after a bad result is it too much to believe that our players mostly between 19-24 can be affected by a run of terrible unfortunate results? Just asking.

    To call Chamakh a flop is a big joke. The man was great at the start of the season and the way how this season ended wouldnt feel quite so poor if not for him. He scored, won penalties and defended well.

    The young man was the work horse of the team and it got the best of him physically for he was not used to the PL. As the front man he knew he had to score so he was more aggressive. To me he made the mistake in the latter part of the season in believing he had to pass since he was not the main threat however the young man always tried hard when he played. To say he didnt try hard, is not right and totally subjective, how do you know Luke?

  141. george rodger

    Jabba ,you are a cunt and cant even muster a decent argument,so fuck right off.
    At least Luke can make points that are worth debating.Whereas you just post gibberish.

  142. “george rodger – Because we are the best club in the world and I get furious when our own fucking fans think otherwise.”

    One can think/feel that Arsenal is the best club in the world and at the same time not think/feel that the current squad is the best in the world and/or that the current management isn’t the best in the world.

  143. Support your team, Jabba. That is all we ask. It seems beyond you.

  144. Jabba, where does it say that a club must spend the full budget? Arsenal as a club are unwilling to spend an extra 10-15 million on a player just because he is english. (see andy carroll, darren bent) Seriously people we got Chamakh on the free he has scored as many goals as darren bent. also that thing about the spuds is pretty great. Media Darlings who beat some shit italian teams and FC Young Boys, then go on to get whomped. also that picture with Rafael Fan Dur Fart makes me gag.

  145. george rodger

    Why not enjoy all that is good about our club,instead of wanting to wallow in misery because you dont have bragging rights over clubs that are artificially financed?

  146. …and as such one can stay away from the ground for important games even if you have a season ticket and/or boo the players off the pitch and make the club a laughing stock and/or go to every blogsite you can and spread negativity about the club, and still claim to be an Arsenal supporter. But you wouldn’t be.

  147. George, you must understand that we all love the Arsenal, but when I see us choke, and concede stupid goals from set pieces for three years running, I’d like to see that addressed – dont we all?

    Wouldnt a better defensive record see us still in the hunt? The same goes for a better retun on goals? If these areas can be improved, which they undoubtedly can, then why arent they?

    Some key stats/points:

    1. Arsenal have conceded more goals from set pieces than any other side in premiership this season
    2. Arsenal have scored the least goals from set pieces this season
    3. We have had more penos than anyone this season
    4. We have more possesion, more terriotity than everyone in everygame, why are we not top of the shooting/goals charts?

    Im not a doomer, or a fair weather fan, or someone who boo’s. I’m a fan. I support this club, I always want to see us do our best, which is sadly what we are not doing.
    However, I will be very disappointed if he starts for us come August.

  148. Jabba i’m goign to answer that question on the behalf of Frank (sorry Frank for putting words in your mouth) we are on the right track because we have a club that runs at profit, players who don’t look like shrekface rooney, we have beaten Chel, Manu,Barca,City. Our squad has an average age of around 23 or 24. compare that with chelskum please. the players many consider “deadwood” are capped regularly on the international level. i can keep going if you want

  149. george rodger

    Some people must live miserable fucking lives if they are unhappy to be an Arsenal supporter .Fuck all down for them I think.

  150. Frank,

    Your clearly an intelligent man. Why do you act so childish when someone debates Arsenal? What have I or Jabba said today apart from we would like our weaknesses adressed.

    Why does that make us poor supporters?

  151. Jabba's delights

    George Roger

    Firstly no need to be rude, one can debate without it or can they not?

    Indeed Luke does write very well and he portrays the feeling of the majority of gooners.

    We have regressed this season our points total isnt good enough for a club of our stature. The signings Arsne made havent been good enough. Chamack has had a par for the course season no more no less but should be kept.

    Squilaci is a disaster and Kosciellny has taken along time to fit, these were arsene buys to sort out the defence which quite simply hasnt worked……..who to blame?

    You talk of financial problems but its our own decision not to spend money for the last 3 years . In those 3 years this team hasnt got better in fact we have got worse.

    We sit at a cross roadfs this summer if we carry on as we have we will be out of the top 4, the players have fialed their manager plain and simple. Nasri and Fab may be off and then it all starts over.

    As stated before by many we need our manager to start admitting his failings or he should leave.

    3 issues for 3 years.

    poor mental strength
    no plan b when faced with organized defences
    woeful defending

    I love my team just as much as you, but i want them to improve, that is all and they havent

  152. I don’t believe it is a simple choice between enjoy and wallow.

    If, in a few years, Wenger decides to retire and silent Stan has the power to bring in someone that changes our transfer policy, will all those that laud the way the team is run now jump ship? Will they back all the new changes blindly, or possibly complain about it, be upset about it, and maybe say negative things about the new management?

    I, personally, enjoy most aspects of the way the club is run. But I also have some issues. I don’t make continual lists of who should go or who should come in, because I have no power over it. But I have no problem with not liking some players and not thinking they are either good enough or just don’t fit with us or our league. I can’t change Wenger, but I have no problem thinking he has made some mistakes. It doesn’t change my support of the club or my hoping for the best going into each game, each competition, and each season.

  153. George,

    Its interesting that its you who keeps on referring to our natural lives. Why is that? Have you spent your whole life in the duldrums of middle management because you live in fear of sticking your neck out and asking for more?

  154. I agree with George, Arsenal are the best club in the world. My wife is the best wife and prettiest women alive too!

  155. george rodger

    Luke,Sorry you will be disappointed if who starts come August?

  156. Oh, and Georger, Im not unhappy as Gooner, far from it.

    I would just like to see us address our obvious weaknesses – your know, the ones that ruined our chances of the title in 07/08 and this year.

  157. George, it was another point I was going to make, but since you ask, Frimpong.

    He excites me massively, but if walks right into the first team, I wont be jumping with joy.

  158. george rodger

    Fuck me.
    We should let in less goals
    We should score more.
    Well that is the football manager equivalent of rocket science is it Luke?
    Tell me a team that does not want those things.

  159. Luke – You are banging your head against a brick wall on here with some people mate. You can make all the reasoned points you want, but unless it subscribes to the fingers in ears “everything will be OK next season”, you will simply be labeled a poor supporter. They tend to believe that we have been completely cheated, and that our players almost to a man are the best in the lge. In denial I reckon

  160. Frank, I’d love a response to my 4.36pm

  161. We have 17 players out on loan, we need to sell some that wont make the first team squad as those 17 must cost us around 15 million a year, Lansbury and JET have a posible chance as does Ryo if we get him a work permit , there are at least six that wont make it lets sell them and try and get rid of Rosicky, Denilson, Almunia, and Gibbs and Clichy if they wont agree terms quickly Luis Enrique is a far better bet than Clichy if Clichy wants 100k a week let him go.
    Bentdner and Vela have not lived up to their potential and if they fetched another 20 million we could get in 4 players in the ten to 15 million range and not break the bank. What we dont want is any more injury prone players like Scott Parker no matter how cheap theyare.

  162. @Bill
    Twisting my words a bit, aren’t you? I was pointing out that against top teams the team is able to defend very well. I don’t think we have conceded even one goal from set pieces against top teams (not counting penalties and direct free kicks, of course.) so why does this team, that is league best in defending from open play, so mediocre defensively when it plays teams that almost solely rely on set pieces to score their goals?

  163. george rodger

    Luke.For the record I dont think you are any less of a fan than me.
    The difference is I think we have over achieved in the last 6 years and you see it as a failure.
    I believe this team can improve ,you dont seem to,or at least are not prepared to let them try.

  164. George, come on fella, dont treat this like a fight, be OBJECTIVE.

    We conceded too many goals? YES, you agree
    We conceded 17 goals from set pieces this season (more than anyone in the league)

    How do we concede less goals, WAIT FOR IT, by some magic wand, and serious equations….

    We need to organise ourselves at set pieces better – how do you do that? I dont care, sign Samba, work on them at training, sack Rice promote Bould, I really dont care.

    BUT, if you are the highest paid manager in the EPL, I expect THREE years to be sufficient time to figure it out.

    Now, I really hope you can understand the above

  165. Cheers GA, I love discussing the fecking boys, but I cant agree its all rosy.

    George – I have not called anything failure, rather, I would like our weaknesses addressed. 3 years is enough time for promise and development.

    I want to see our TEAM actually improve for a WHOLE SEASON next year. is that too much to ask? That we try get better?

  166. It is good to see that so many people get so much enjoyment from watching Arsenal – I wonder what they do for relaxation though ?

    I find stabbing myself in the eyes with a rusty knitting needle quite restful

  167. george rodger

    Andy ,He is banging his head against a brick wall if he is trying to convince me he has answers that Arsene Wenger cant work out.Or if he is telling me he can see problems that Arsene has failed to notice.

  168. GA, please dont make it seem as if people on here have not been talking about addressing needs and the changes that we need to make.

    Luke’s intial comment was full of derogatory comments about the team. Thats why this discussion is not what it should be. I love the fact that people defend our players!

  169. GEORGE

    You dont need to be f**king Arsene Wenger to see that we cant defend set pieces?

    Jesus – did you watch Arsenal at ALL pre Wenger???? Do you know what an organised defence looks like.???

  170. George – He is just giving his opinion, just as you are yours.

  171. Paul N,

    Deroragtory comments about the t eam? Granted calling Chamakh a flop was a bit strong.

    Saying we cant defend? Saying we dont score enough goals? That we have failed to progress as team in terms of points tally

    Whats wrong with the above? And I think you will find, it was I who was subjected to abuse to beging with as no discussion was entered by those who disagreed..

  172. And manager!

    We need more supporters with “rose tinted” views like Frank and George.
    The team would be urged on more in matches.

    As Yogi said in this Article

    “An age-old quandry arises, do the collective off the pitch provide the encouragement before the collective on it, or is it vice-versa? It should be the former but in all-seater stadia, it is too often the latter.”

    I have no doubt that if we were a little more biased towards our team we would do the latter and that would be awesome in my view.

  173. Paul N,

    Agreed. The Emirates is appauling.

    Its a shame that some one here assume that if you challeneg anything about the club, then your a boo’er, someone who doesnt sing etc.

    If you cant discuss the mechanics of arsenal with fellow gooners, where do you go?

  174. Luke, yes some of your comments were derogatory.

    The team can defend though, we have a problem with set playes granted, but that doesnt mean that overall we are bad defenders.

    We all agree that the team needs to improve and most have said that Wenger should do what it takes however that doesnt mean that our current crop are the bottom of the barrel. A team that is in 4th place must be doing something right. Its up to Managers and the players who will be here to make the potential a reality.

    We all have agreed that the Mid went missing as far as goal scoring. Frank said that a long time ago.

    No one on here has disagreed that there is need and room for improvement though buying is not the only answer.

  175. I dont think you are a poor supporter for questioning things. There should be room for that discussion Luke.
    People are protective over their team because all are blasting us to shreds even though there is much more good than bad.

  176. I’d be interested to see which comments caused offence, no harm was meant (bar a silly personal dig at George)

    Anyway, we have not been able to defend set pieces for 3 years, we all know that, I just hope our great manager still as the drive to correct our mistakes.

    And being fourth is no mean feat – but its also interesting how you get there, do you:

    A) Finish strongly a la Spurs last year, beating you rivals along the way


    B) Implode drastically, showing no semblance of mental strength, fighting attitude and effort

    (for the second time in many of these players careers)

    Its acceptance of no development over the last 3 years which has hit some Gooners the hardest, and the perfect remedy is for our manager to appease the fears of groundhog day by being clinical in the transfer market, and early.

    That is my stance in a nutshell.

  177. Very true – we are the most engaged fanbase, papers know we will bite…

  178. Also in complete agreement that there is so much that is perfect about our club – just need the final parts tweaked!

  179. Luke I agree we need minor tweaks. I agree on the defensive situation. although personally, i have no idea how to organize a defense. The fact that our squad consists of at least 4 or 5 nationalities probably doesn’t help though. dutch, english, spanish, french, swiss, russian. Whereas Man U keepers can simply yell, “ITS FECKIN MINE!!” we have Szcezcney yelling “to jest moje fucking kulki!” (props to internet translators)

  180. Haha, very true William.

    If you ever catch me saying anything like:

    ‘Wot we need iz a propa english cb with grit’

    Then shoot me! Language is interesting though – I imagine they all speak English – Kolscieny has a sound grasp and Vaermalen and/or anyone exposed to Holland, speaks MUCH better English than our national team.

    Bar Theo of course, hes a nice boy.

  181. Our defence all speak French amoung other langauges, but I imagine everyone communicates in English. And Szcezcney speaks perfect English.

  182. welp, goes to show what a 20 year old yank knows about footy.

  183. george rodger

    Andy,My opinion is not that I know better than Arsene .That is the difference.

  184. that is, not much compared to others on this site.

  185. Tweak is the key word. Any major moves will bring unbalance I feel.
    Wenger, hasn’t ever bowed to media hype but, I’m hoping he get’s the right man or men and get them early without the dragging it out.

    Might just be the media but, our transfers seem to take a long time in coming or they are coming then don’t turn up and sign for next team.

    Personally, I’m not shouting about Kos because I feel that there was ready made quality already tried and tested right here in the UK. Why did we have go to France again and pick from their 2 tier this time? I don’t know about our buying and selling policy but, it’s hard to work out from here when.

  186. Gainsbourg69

    Bill: “We can certainly afford to have 1 of our 4 CB’s who is not quite as pacey but is strong enough to stand his ground against the Drogba’s, Carrolls, Nolan’s of the PL. Would be a good start to the summer.”

    Bill, we don’t need a big, tough, slow defender. The fact that they lack pace is why most of them play for the likes of Blackburn, Stoke and Birmingham. Since you mentioned Samba, you should look at how he did against the players you mentioned.

  187. seems to me that Koscielney did just fine against Drogba. and Rooney. And Messi. So there you have it, Bill. A CB who can guard against the big strong man, the shrekface, and the best player in the world.

  188. solgooner | May 19, 2011 at 4:47 pm |

    I’m hoping something like that happens. I didn’t know the count was up to 17 for players out on loan. f-king heck that a lot.

    I share the same opinion on those that look like they may cut it for me
    JET, Lansbury, KyleBartley, Emanuel Fringpong. From what I have seen so far Ryo, is ready and good to go. We haven’t had a player like him that I can remember anyway and I hope this permit crap get’s sorted so we can have back.

    Agree with some of the static dead wood but, I think Rosicky, Denilson, Almunia, Clichy need to go soon as possible. Gibbs was doing alright the season before last I think when Clichy was injured and he got a decent run in the side.

    I felt more confident in the way Gibbs defended and he wasn’t seen as a weakness as teams see Clichy, nearly every match we have. Note how teams will always look to knock it his way cos he’s either sleeping or surprised to see somebody running in behind him. 100k a week?!
    No new terms just piss off.

    Toon would bite off any hand at the moment and Luis has to be one of the most improved Prem players this season. Bendtner and Vela should of been off the books 2 seasons ago. Why have we persisted with this I don’t know but, I think Wenger over trusted and has been let down.

    I sorry people but, when we are chasing a match I don’t feel it may change when Bendtner comes on either as acting pacey tricky winger or clinical striker up front.

  189. Accusing another of immaturity in defending a fellow calling himself Jabba’s Delight is a couragous gambit. I would suggest that it is a risky allegiance you have there, but that is your prerogative, Luke.

  190. The defence has been a bit eye watering of late after what was real good run at the start of the year but who would have even noticed if we had been popping them in at the other end ?

    Are we a football club that is going to grind out 1-0 results ? No Sir not my baby!

  191. RVP……….Click Click Click
    RVP……….Click Click Click
    RVP……….Click Click Click

  192. George @ 4:01:

    I guess you believe that using the transfer market somehow will diminish the significance of any future success we have, I disagree. You can be whatever type of fan you want. I would rather see us start winning trophies again and I think that bringing in some outside players this summer will help speed that along. Too each his own.

  193. ‘stand ground against Drogba and Carroll?’

    Play Djourou.
    If possible, not when he is on the mend.
    Don’t believe me? Watch the tapes.

    Gr*tbusters? Who you gonna call?

  194. I wonder if Messi will leap inbetwixt the Man Mountains of Vidic & Ferdinand to score another header.

  195. If Messi can’t get to the Mountains.
    The Mountains will (try) to come to Messi.

  196. The team needs to look at defending as a whole, being more agressive and sticking to assingnments. I believe the players we have can do that but its something that needs to be coached up.

    Another point is that these same defenders have not been the same for the 6 years in which we havent won silverware. We are playing with 2 totally new defenders and 1 that was out injured for a season and who wasnt a regular starter.
    The only reason City have a better defense that us is because they play with atleast 4 DM’s for the most part. Their defenders are not as good as ours in my opinion. With Chelsea and United you have some very mature defenders who I wonder if they were good as our current youngsters at the same age. For the most part they have also played with the same defense for quite a while while we have had changes almost every year.

  197. Evil @ 4;47:

    “so why does this team, that is league best in defending from open play, so mediocre defensively when it plays teams that almost solely rely on set pieces to score their goals?”

    I wish I knew the answer. Last season we did reasonably well against set pieces but got killed by counter attacking goals. The year before Toure/Gallas were terrible against set pieces. The most frustrating thing about our defense is that the problem has been a moving target. The problems have been present now for several years despite players coming and going. The only logical explanation is some problem with our coaching, tactics, training methods or how we prepare the team to defend or most likely all of the above. If you have a better explanation then I would love to hear it.

    One thing I have learned is that the good form we show in some games or run of games has been not been indicative of the form we will show over the course of a season. Rationalizing that we played well in a few games so that means that if we are patient we will eventually be excellent on a consistent basis is not realistic. The goals against table for the last 5 years do not lie and I hope we add a CB and a defensive coach this summer.

  198. G69 @ 6:13:

    Quote from Wenger after the most recent Spurs game:

    “We have not been stable enough defensively. The numbers are the numbers, we have conceded six goals this week at a moment where you cannot afford to conceded six goals in three games and win the championship. We were too frail defensively during the season.”

    That was before Bolton and Villa it looks even worse now. That is the 3rd season in a row for almost the exact same quote from the boss. I have been on the blog for 2 years and during all that time you and many others have been telling me how good our players are and that we don’t need to change anything. A bit hard to understand that thought process at this point.

  199. Bill,

    That quote is easily explainable.

    Wenger is a moaning doomer.

  200. george rodger

    Bill ,I understand you feeling this way.
    I just want to believe that with TV, Johan ,Kos and an improving GK we will improve.It may turn out that you a right and I am wrong.If that turns out to be the case we will both be losers.

  201. Might I just but here and make the following observation:

    Calling someone a cunt, telling them to fuck off just because you disagree with them isn’t big, isn’t clever and most definitely doesn’t prove your point.

    But those who think about calling me a cunt or telling me to fuck off. You’re history. And I don’t care who you are.


  202. I have been saying for many years we really need to knock in at least four and sometimes five each game to get anywhere – anywhere at all
    Defence ? Pah – the refuge of the modestly endowed

  203. Luke. Milner won young player of the year award aged24. I guess that means u are young until you turn 24 regardless of hoew many caps you got for ur team. Any team with a majority of key players under 24 is by that definition a young team.

  204. Post of the day Yogi !

  205. I think the big difference here is that there is a population of regular posters whose support for Arsenal can best be categorized as loving the style of football, the ethos of the team, the brilliant moments when it all clicks and the ball is in the back of the net after a 23 pass move that was started by a back pass to the keeper.

    For these supporters that is enough.

    Sure, winning trophies would be nice because it is the external validation of the style of play that these supporters already know internally is the only true way to play football, but this group of supporters doesn’t need the rest of the world to acknowledge what they already know.

    These supporters get frustrated by the poor performances of the team, by missed chances or silly play from athletes that are, by and large, much, much younger than they are themselves. They accept that a good manager can always improve a squad but understand that writing complaints about how the manager doesn’t get it or if only we would sign this player X or Y ultimately is pointless. Who are they trying to impress with their opinion? Why should their opinion of what the team “needs” to do in order to improve matter one jot? They aren’t the manager, they have no direct influence on who gets signed, etc… so writing about how they think they know the “key” things that will make Arsenal champions again is absolutely pointless.

    The other group of supporters on here probably also get goose pimples at the aforementioned 23 pass move, love the style on display wherever Arsenal play, and think that the club is well run. This group of supporters, however, crave the external validation of the Arsenal model that can only come about through the winning of trophies.

    For some reason this group NEEDS the trophies to come. What that reason is I have no idea. Because of the lack of trophies this group of supporters feels utterly compelled to write out their opinions of how Arsenal should change in order for those trophies to come; failing to realize that their opinions really only matter to themselves. The club certainly doesn’t care and nor should it. That’s why managers and staff are hired.

    Yes, I just said that the club should not care about the opinions of its supporters with respect to what they think should be done to improve the club. Again, that is why a manger is hired and a staff is hired. So what happens? These supporters shout out their ideas on how the club should be fixed to the world through blogs, etc….

    Unfortunately most of them have a big chip on their shoulder because the club has not won the trophies that are the validation of the model that these supporters need. As a result there is a latent level of frustration that leads to quick use of little boy words, etc….

    What is needed is a separate space where the latter group of supporters can go to vent their opinions on how the manager is getting it wrong, how this player is rubbish, how that one clearly gave up halfway through the season. But wait, such a location already exists over at Le Grove!

    Although it is amusing to see how worked up people get over differences of opinion ultimately coming on here to rant and rave will be about as satisfying as talking to a brick wall.

  206. @gris the problem is that when they post on Le Grove nobody every questiones them or talks back at them cos they all have the same opinion and they are all equally bad at expressing it in a sophisticated and extiting way.

    So they come here to read some nice stuff, and then write some stuff themselves and hoping for a reaction.
    Honestly its no fun to hate something if nobody disagrees with you. If everyone on your page thinks AW sucks whats the point of arguing it? Everybody agrees anyway….

  207. George:

    My feeling is that you hope for the best but you try to prepare for the worst. If your right and we bring another player that we did not really need then we will have some fluff and we are covered for the inevitable injuries. However if we do nothing and I turn out to be right we are in for another disappointment. This has been a such a long term problem that it seems best to cover all your bases as much as possible.

  208. Very good post Gris – the only slight addition is that there also exist the fan/poster who quite enjoys the cock ups that are a part of the roller coaster experience just as much as the sublime moments of victory

  209. Anicoll, one of his alias’s is Kubla Khan.

  210. george rodger

    It is not possible to debate with someone who simply comes on and abuses the team and the manager without making a single reasonable point.
    Bill,Andy ,JonJon and others have view and opinions that I disagree with ,yet I never feel inclined to stoop to crass insults.In fact the opposite is the case.
    Others like Jimbo and Jabba do not in my opinion deserve any consideration from me and I certainly dont think wasting time countering their non arguements is very fruitful.
    However if YW your post was aimed at me I will in future simply ignore them.And may I apologize for my rudeness.

  211. Better Kubla Khan, terror of Samarkhand and leader of the Mongol horde, than Strauss Khan – nasty piece of work (allegedly)

  212. yeah mr. Strauss sure did eff up his career. alleged rape is never good for the public image.

  213. George

    My post was aimed at all, not one in particular.

    However, it seems that some can appear, disappear, create disharmony whenever they like. Not going to happen. The provoker and provokee have been warned. Turn the other cheek, etc.

    If someone is winding you up, ignore them or treat them with equal contempt. Yet rise above them in the language. And if they won’t listen to reason, ignore them. Easiest way and the added bonus is that the provokee’s blood pressure is not a silent killer. At least whilst they are reading this site.

    However, tonight for a fleeting second, someone called me a cunt. They aren’t coming back. Anyone else care to repeat that will receive the same. Irrespective of whom they are.


  214. Any fucking cunt who calls a fucking cunt a fucking cunt is a fucking cunt and no messing. Isn’t that right, YW, sir, your lordship? Oh bugger.

  215. Just reading through the comments today. See that Jabba’s gonads made no impression on anyone – which was good to see.

    On a much more heinous scale, I totally agree with all condemnation of John Cross. Who the f*ck does this guy think he is ? He thinks he has finger on the pulse, and continually quotes views of the doomer minority as being mainstream. He doesn’t speak for us, but appears on AVTO in the capacity of an arsenal supporting fan. He seems to make his living out of writing negative stuff about us. I don’t recall any positives – maybe the negative stuff just sticks in the mind – I may be wrong. But anyway, today – how the f*ck does he know what Wenger is going to do ? The season hasn’t even ended. He’s just making some interpretations and trying to put some negative spin on it. If he’s on AVTO, then he deserves a load of shit.

  216. george rodger

    Muppet ,I have an on going feud with him on ATVO ,since he said “Arsene Wenger had failed and bungled attempts in the transfer market”
    I just cant get my head around Tom Watt having time for him.

  217. Yes our defense wasnt good enough but this was at seasons end with to me a Rushed back Djourou. He was slow and apprehensive after coming back from injury for the most part. I am sure that coming back from a dislocated shoulder is not as easy as we were led to believe with the young man.

    There is more than meets the eye to our defensive woes. As much as many get on Squlliaci’s back, I believe he wouldve been the better option to partner Kos at the time.

  218. George,

    Good stuff.

    Well, Tom Watt invites all sorts of journos to be fair, but I haven’t seen the show that recently.

    He’s a nice bloke. It’s not a personal attack. But he seems to take his views straight from Le Grove and says they are the majority view. I think it just needs someone to point out that those who shout loudest, don’t have the majority view, and that there is a wide body of opinion who will stick with the Wenger philosophy of youth, judicious signings and paying down the debt. I think he probably spends most of his time talking to the likes of Pedro from Le Grove, and those other tossers from Online Gooner and Arsenal Insider. He’s a bit confused or on the other hand, he may generally be printing all the negative stuff, because that’s how he can make a living. It’s a bit like Eastenders – you don’t see many happy stories on there do you…?

  219. george rodger

    Paul,I am not so sure given his first half against Villa.
    Perhaps he reads blogs and he now believes his press.He looked a broken man.The Grove is having that effect on a few of them I think.

  220. Nasir Jones-Nasri

    Most internet based Arsenal fans have lost the fucking plot. Moaning about sport and the same thing day in day out can’t be healthy. Why follow and keep up with sport if you aren’t able to derive any sort of enjoyment out of it and enjoy the ride? All these people that want tweaks and philosophical changes lack discipline amongst other traits I won’t name. Anyone choosing to ignore the role refs played with regards to ManUre’s success and our downfall this season has zero credibilty, imo. It’s obvious we play by a different set of rules and that plays a huge part in our apparent weaknesses. We can’t defend like ManU plain and simple. ManU get away with bloody murder week in week out. Our players know they are playing against 12 men and that has to be a huge factor psychologically. ManU players play with the knowledge they are protected and coddled and one need not look further than the amount of pens we’ve been called for this season. Something is fishy.

  221. george rodger

    Yes Tom does invite some strange people on.
    But when I round on John Cross ,Tom always insists Cross is a positive Wengerite.When clearly he is not.
    I have a lot of time for Tom ,that is why I suspect he is doing a job rather than expressing his actual views.

  222. I hope “F*ck Off Howard” is still a safe phrase. I think it’s too historic to be banned YW.

  223. Nasir Jones-Nasri

    Nice post, Gris Gris. Proper Arsenal.

  224. george rodger

    NJN.When you can run up behind someone and elbow the back of their head with total immunity from punishment,then you know there is something amiss.
    And when Vidic wins “save of the season”with no penalty and sending off ,well.you tell me .

  225. Gris Gris | May 19, 2011 at 8:53 pm |

    Top Top…..Gris Gris

  226. http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/breves2011/20110519_181831_-cela-s-est-joue-a-rien.html

    This guy probably knows what he’s talking about more than John Cross.

  227. Nasir Jones-Nasri

    I’d say that some of us understand that cock ups are a part of the game. We understand we’re talking about humans who sometimes make mistakes. Something the everything must be perfect utopia seeking doomers don’t understand. To think some of us enjoy to see the Arsenal cock up is outlandish.

  228. It appears Denilson is leaving the club, i liked him as a player, oh well.

  229. I must ask, if you are a true gunner fan would you then go out in the paper and stab ur club in the back like that? Besides you don’t have to win stuff to be a massive club. Look at liverpool. When did they last win the series? Do they even play CL? Yet they are the second biggest club in England aparantly. So everyone saying you need trophies to be among the best are simply wrong. Cos frankly you can’t Get bigger than Liverpool apparently…

  230. Was that the only way denilson could leave with his head high? Claiming he was tired of no trophies? That’s a shame cos he always came across as a decent guy. Mabe his. “cesc is no leader” ruined all for him.

  231. We don’t really know what the real reasons for his departure guys. Maybe he was told there was no place for him or to make room for someone else coming up.

    If this is the case then the easiest excuse line to pick up is “no trophies”. If he’s really leaving, good luck to him.

    Probably Craig Eastmond will fill his spot if needed and of course he’s English, so he will get a bit of extra support.

  232. Well we must sell due to 25 man rule no? Next year alot of our young stars “graduate” from the 21 to 22.

  233. NasriJones Nasri
    In the CC final the referee was on our side(The Szczesny sending off in the first minute).But no one mentions that.We lost that game fair and square

  234. He is leaving because Wenger has finally realised that he is actually an average player. That as been apparant by his failure to even make the match day squad recently.

  235. Aman @ 9:43,

    Amen to that.

  236. goonerandy you are out of order. Who are you going to blame when your favourite scapegoat has gone?

  237. Pas – I am really not out of order. For starters I don’t think of him as a scapegoat, I just don’t think that he is good enough for us and offers us very little. The fact that Arsene has used his sparingly, and seems quite happy to let him go appears to suggest that he also thinks this.

    For me he is taking up a spot which could be occupied by somebody who could offer competition for places. I have nothing personal against the guy, and hope he does well whereever he goes. I think he is the prime example however of what is wrong with the current squad (not his fault).

  238. Can’t say I am going to miss Denilson massively.

    5 years, 150 games and 50k/week should have seen the Brazilian deliver more. Exceptional performances like Barca last year were a rare moment.

    Consistently this year he has been slow, weak in the tackle, fruitless in attack, caught out of position and a man beaten by the pressure of his situation.

    It is the best move for all parties. I’m sure he will be a solid player in the less demanding Serie A

  239. Arsenal players have themselves to blame for their sufferings this season.
    What if wenger goes and we finish sixth next season, players leave, and our problems become deeper and deeper.Wenger’s the best man to take us forward and that’s what the players feel.Why don’t the fans do the same?
    One thing I seriously hope is somehow England realizes the risk of a possible burn-out if he goes to the under-21 championship.Please FA, do a sensible thing for once.


  240. Hoping his departure will result in Lansbury getting more games…..

  241. Luke – To be honest, that is exactly what i don’t want to happen (nothing to do with Lansbury mind). The best thing for the club would be that his place is filled by somebody who can push Song for his place, or even take it.

    Arseblog summed up the Denilson issue quite nicely this morning.

  242. For all the pretence of rationality there is often a nasty little bleeder lurking beneath

  243. I hope we get a result against Fulham. M City could yet drop points, so 3rd is still on the cards for us.

  244. Denilson will be a success at somewhere like Sevilla or Villareal. This last season hasn’t been a good one for him, but he was very important for us for a year or so.

  245. This club deserves better players than him. The fact that he will go to a mid-table club somewhere tells you what his level is.

    Good luck to the guy, he has had a great eduacation at Arsenal and I hope he does well for himself.

  246. Denilson didn’t play against Bolton, Stoke or Villa. I like him. Having said that there is no point in staying if you are going to get constant abuse from your ‘supporters’. Developing something of a reputation for that are we not?

  247. I don’t think that we have heard the last of Denílson Pereira Neves I look forward to watching his career develop. Good luck, young man, and thanks.

  248. Frank – Nobody is blaming him for those results. Nor would I. I just think he is not good enough for us, and is symptamatic of the issues in the squad. You are right of course regarding the abuse he has recieved when playing for us. I really don’t see the point of that. Booing players and the team is not going to achieve anything.

  249. I suspect he is the first of many players to leave. It must be very difficult to play for Arsenal at the moment. On bad game, just about OK. Two bad games, getting wobbly. Three bad games, you are now facing utter fucking hatred.

  250. Frank, but if your being objective and not satisfying your personal crusade againt supporters who dont think everything is perfect at the club, then he really hasnt hit the heights for his experience/salary.

    Where has Denilson improved over the last 5 years? What notable development has he made to justify £50k/week and 150 apperances?

    His treatment from the fans has been sickening, but, and this might come as suprise, you can believe a player is not good enough for Arsenal AND be a vocal supporter at the ground.

  251. Also Frank, with Denilson, it will be easier to count his stand out performances than his poor games.

  252. Extreme circumstances require extreme measures, Luke. There is a war on and you are standing in the middle of the battlefield shouting for your right to have your say. Keep it for the pub,son.

  253. Bizzare.

  254. Nasir – perverse as it sounds I do enjoy seeing the cock ups not because it then allows me to leap on the “I told you so” bandwagon but cos those moments are just as much a part of the roller coaster ride of supporting this team as all the good times. Twenty years time I will still see the final seconds of the Carling Cup final as I will RvP’s rocket past Valdes – vivid

  255. I’d be wary of any quotes attributed to Denilson or anyone else in the Sun. Just as a general rule. Though some elements of the story make sense, such as him telling Wenger 8 months ago. Would explain why he hasn’t seen action.

    I don’t believe most of the quotes though. No one is that ungrateful.

  256. As much as the rags print complete rubbish, most quotes are accurate. They can make up want they want by claiming “a source close to” all the time. But if they directly misquote somebody they can be done for it, so I would imagine the quotes are accurate.

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