Fall Of The Empire Or Dark Days Before Dawn?

It is the end of the Empire. The destructive force of rebellion and nature lashing into the edifices to send them crumbling into the sea. The gallows at Tyburn are once more being constructed with prime targets Arsène Wenger, Denilson, Abou Diaby and Manuel Almunia, all fearing for their safety, using a hastily constructed and very rickety, underground railway to flee.

Or at least that is what some would have you believe.

Others point to deficiencies in the playing squad which they knew about and take great delight in pointing out how wise they were after the event. A risky business when silverware has still to be won, even if that route is becoming harder through Arsenal’s own efforts – or in some cases, lack of.

There have been calls for Wenger to be sacked or to leave of his own volition, surrender has been signalled from some quarters. Despite this, the wreckage that was surveyed yesterday might have to be hastily reconstructed if results go in Arsenal’s favour to the same degree in which they went against them on Saturday.

Such is the inconsistency on display this season that the draw for United and accompanying win could happen in the next fortnight. Then we are back in control of our own destiny, provided results in the interim match.

One issue is certain. No matter what complaints you have about the squad, nothing can be done until the transfer window opens. No money spent, no signings confirmed; nothing. Groundwork, yes, by all means and that must surely be an ongoing process in any case. At the business end of the season, with a squad of players in need of some mental work, do you want the manager and staff focussing on that or transfers for next season?

There are plenty of players who will be identified as the weakest links, some will be a core with others a matter of personal preference. Apparently though Arsène’s priorities are clear when it comes to new faces: experienced winners.

So no Gary Cahill or Eden Hazard then as they have won not much more than nothing in their careers…

At this moment in time, Arsenal players (rightly) face questions. Desire, experience, ability – these should not just be limited to the bad times (as in now) or the good (as in then). Even now and then are relative. Six weeks ago was then, this is now. A lot can change very quickly.

Amongst this, arguments should and will rage. Points get lost amid a welter of abuse between two very entrenched sets of views. Lose the abuse or no-0ne listens, posturing proves nothing.

It’s tough times but the battle for the title is not over. Even in the darkest hour a little light must shine. Perhaps the clouds will break sooner than we think.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on April 4, 2011, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 319 Comments.

  1. Seems like nobody wants to comment today Yogi. Dark days indeed. However whatever our feelings about the team, manager etc. we MUST maintain our support till the end of the season. I’m afraid from what I seen on Saturday however it will be another “there’s always next season”.

  2. The support on Saturday was a disgrace. Anybody here heard of RedAction?

    Matchday in 90 seconds vid on my website for anybody who wants a small laugh.


  3. I’m a regular reader of this blog, but do not comment so regularly.

    Tough times indeed. As you have rightly emphasised so many times, perspective is needed when one resorts to criticise the manager and the team. It’s sad that some lack that obviously . These people surface on here only when the team is going through a bad patch, letting us know how they knew all along this would happen.

    btw, great post Yogi.

  4. Reading the comments from yesterday, it appears that any negative comments are grounds for being labeled a doomer. While personally I don’t believe any radical changes are needed (ie Wenger out, £100m transfer kitty) I do believe that changes are indeed required. To me, it seems as though the team are lacking real heart and drive. There’s no team spirit. With the exception of Jack, Clichy, maybe Kos and JD I feel the rest of the squad are a little too complacent and happy to be where they are. While 2nd in the league, CC final, FA quarters and CL round of 16 is really not bad at all, it is when you consider the fact that it could be so much more at this point in time. Granted we have had some bad luck, but that doesn’t tell the whole story. I believe the mood is so negative around the club because there is a sense of what could have been, and many what ifs. We know this team have the potential and it’s incredibly frustrating not achieving way more than we currently do. I’ll happily take a new stadium, a nailed on top 4 spot, and a great financial future but is it really a bad thing to want more as well? I personally don’t think so, at least not when it is within grasp..as it is and has been. This season has been a disappointment so far, but here’s hoping we can one day push on and achieve our full potential

  5. There’s nothing wrong with criticising Wenger, it’s the manner in which some people are doing it that utterly disgusts me.

  6. Micky The Gooner

    “So no Gary Cahill or Eden Hazard then as they have won not much more than nothing in their careers…”

    Sounds like the type of players Arsene dreams of paying 50/60k a week on long term contracts for then! Sign them up oh Deity!

  7. Support was good in the Clock End. Shame we couldn’t take one of our chances. We had enough of the buggers. The Lancs didn’t touch the ball for the first quarter of an hour. Great Rocky tributes. And good luck to Bob Wilson on that bike!

    Chin up to all ye mopers, still got a great chance this season. Team just needs to loosen up a bit.

  8. You say there’s nothing wrong in criticising Wenger (I assume you mean the team as well) however, the AKB club seems to jump all over anyone who has an opinion that’s not in line with theirs. If you separate the sensationalist aspects of many comments, I personally believe that many of the criticisms of Wenger and the team are indeed true, which makes me sad to say. I still think we can be world beaters, but there is no way that’s happening with the current state of affairs

  9. Gutted, kin gutted. A Blackburn team in free fall, not gained an away point all year, down to 10 men and without their most creative player.
    Gone are the excuses of injuries, players fully rested, we were shit. The realism is that we have lost our ability to surprise, inadequate in speed, movement or finishing.
    Saturday started so well, fires burned bright as WHU went 2 nil up only for the day and probably the season to fizzle out in the most mundane and pathetic way. Gutted.

  10. Thoughtful post Yogi and very much what I feel at the moment. I am edgy and keen to see what Wenger has in mind for the Summer. My instinct is that a goalscorer is top of the shopping list and by Gawd over the past few weeks we could have done with one. For what it was worth in the Family blocks the support was very good on Saturday, loud right through to the end.

  11. I agree with Limpar.
    This squad have the longest unbeaten run in the league.
    They were top of the form table till they stopped scoring as many as we’d like.

    Liverpool’s multi bazillion super duper brand new strike team of tried and tested Winners played really well against West Brom.
    Much better then Arsenal, for example.

  12. Torres, Drogba and Anelka destroyed Stoke.

  13. The football was awful on Saturday, Robin had a particularly poor game until moved out wide.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the message in the article, but being monday and the pain still being fresh I can emphasise with the haters, even if I’m not one of them.

    I just want to see more fight, we roll over too easy it seems these days.


  14. Arsenal are D**Med.

    That must be why so many have an unhealthy obsession about the DM’s.
    Even when they are not playing.

  15. Bossmam – there is nothing wrong in constructive criticism, of course there isn’t. We can talk about the team and manager as much as we like but that doesn’t give us a right to be incredibly rude and disrespectful.

    Some of the shit I heard in the North Bank on Saturday truly disgusted me. On a basic human level, you should not abuse people. For some reason supporters seems to believe footballers are immune to being called every name under the sun; they’re not. As for Arsene, the man is trying his best. Whether or not you agree with his ideas is another matter, but given what he has done for the club he should be treated with respect.


  16. I don’t think it’s this year’s run of poor form that’s winding people up so much in itself, it’s the fact that it’s the same story for the past few seasons now. It seems that around this time of year when you need to put a strong run together to get to the winning line that the team fades a bit. Now people will point to specific injuries in past seasons, but we do have a squad for a reason. And it’s not as if other teams we are competing against don’t face the same problems. If the same thing keeps on happening year after year then something needs to be done, whether that be new personnel or somehow getting the current squad to up their game.

  17. Haven’t posted since the draw. Frustrated how the likes of Suga2 come to gloat when we lose points. Got to ask ourselves questions though. Once more we are going to be a top four club. Also we are going to have the best balance sheet in the whole league. It has to come right sooner rather than later. What’s frustrating is the wait. Do we need to buy big? Maybe! Bayern Munchen got Robben and they still have a fantastic balance sheet. So it can be done. A few sensible buys. That is buys bigger than Koscielny and Chamakh. And yet how big? On one of the Bleacher reports I received Peter Odemwengie was rated the best buy of the season! So it’s not so much about blowing the bank. But that’s for next season. For the moment we just hold on and hope the mancs lose points. That hoping is what is so frustrating.

  18. Delia---Block 112

    It was a long way home on Saturday , plenty of time for reflection. We the supporters must hold our nerve. I have the fear that the players may start to fall out amongst themselves , a question of the blame game,and then we would be in real trouble.
    The newer fans have never really experienced the truely bad times of the 50s/60s . Times change and the current generation of supporters have no conception of building for the future. They live in an instant and throw away society.
    I agree that changes need to be made to the squad and the back-room staff but let that be an issue for the Summer, there is nothing to be done at the present time. So let’s give the team our full support until the end of the season ,starting on Sunday , when we play a side whose style of open, attacking football should suit us down to the ground. A convincing result at Blackpool will cheer us up and give a welcome boast to the squad.
    As always COYRs

  19. We didn’t lose.

    Look it didn’t help that half the team we put out had travelled half way round the world and played two games in a week for their country. We the fans were fresh and up for the Blackburn match because we’ve been sitting scratching our arses for two weeks. These lads haven’t stopped. People are surprised Arshavin didn’t look fresh? He shouldn’t have been playing. Sagna, Clichy, Wilshere, Nasri, Van Persie too – all needed a rest. The players who were fresh were returning from injury, so weren’t particularly sharp either.

    With only the league to focus on now we should get some form.

  20. Wenger should not be immune from criticism – the performance on Saturday against limited opposition was poor and the attitude of some of the players was poor and hard to understand when we are still in the running for the title.
    Credit should be given to Wenger for achieving so much in terms of league position this year on such a shoestring budget and the lack of investment, but despite the lauding of the squad, the quality, at the moment is not good enough to win major honours such as the championship and the CL. I hear a lot of people on here saying that our squad is better than Man U’s. Really? Man U have more strength and experience both in defensive and attack. However, I don’t think we are that far away, but certain changes defintely need to be made at the end of the season.

  21. Delia . . . couldn’t agree more!

  22. Can anybody here tell me if they are part of RedAction? I was in block 6 on Saturday and I’d love to ask some questions.


  23. “Once more we are going to be a top four club.”
    Hang on Keynan Gooner, we are not there yet! Man city and Chelsea are breathing down our necks now. Everyone seems to be focusing on the title race, but we need to hold on to second spot first.

  24. Poor Jack must’ve been replaying that miss over and over on Saturday night. Funny thing is it was all “Unlucky, Jackie!” – from us behind the goal… which is brilliant… just funny to think of the different reaction a less favoured son would’ve got. Anyway, dust yourself off, boy. A week’s work at the training ground and I predict our mojo will come knee-sliding back again for Blackpool in a big way. Fulham to make life difficult for those braindead manc scumbags too, draw there I reckon.

    I enjoyed Andrey’s 50 yard trackback and slide tackle. Lazy bastard. And his stumbling little Marseille turn and almost the perfect weight on the throughball after….

    We really were unlucky not to score on Saturday. Ridiculously fucking unlucky.

  25. Limpar Assist – “We really were unlucky not to score on Saturday” –
    Why unlucky? We missed our chances and were too wasteful in front of goal. This has been a problem for a while now.

  26. Alex Ice Cream


    We were not unlucky to score; our finishing wasn’t good enough and not for the first time. Why do keepers have their best games against us – becuase we are not clinical enough. As the great Thierry Henry said ” a good shot is one that gives the keeper no chance.”

  27. theBigM, we are number two. Add Chelsea and Mancity and that makes four. We are going to finish in the top four!

  28. timlove, what’s the deal with RedAction then? Heard mutterings before but give me an overview.

  29. Keynan gunner – Fair point! Maths was never a strong point. I just hope we can hold on to 2nd spot as we have improved a lot this season.

  30. It was probably one of the most flat performances we have produced all season. Its easy to feel sorry for ourselves, blame the players you don’t like, and accept defeat in our quest for a 1st trophy in 5 years..

    I ain’t having that people, we are still in with a great chance. We have a squad capable of picking up the points needed. Man United showed in the 1st half at West Ham how poor they really are – had it not been for another United favouring refereeing sensation, saturdays draw wouldn’t be so bad.

    Do we really want United adding another league title to their list of honours? I know the players are down and need to raise their confidence and game, but the supporters have been absoultely shite all season apart from a couple big games. The guys that attend the games seem to only give any support when we are winning.

    That is unacceptable. As I stressed last season at around this time, players won’t want to play for the shirt when they are not appreciated by the fans. Players like Van Persie, Clichy, Djourou, Cesc will think twice now about any offers which come their way.

    I still firmly believe we will win the league. There is a lot of quality to come out of this time and there is a lot of luck that is owed to us still this season.

    Keep the faith and support.

  31. Markus- Here’s a link to an overview of RedAction:


    Essentially they have a block to themselves at The Emirates and formed in order to try and improve the atmosphere at games.

    To put it quite simply, they are utterly useless. They don’t sing, they moan as much as everybody else offer nothing.

    I’m writing to Gazidis now about stadium atmosphere. It probably won’t get me anywhere but something has to change. It’s one thing to whinge and moan outside the stadium/at the end of a game (if you must), but I’m sick to death of the negativity at our home games. If the club are willing to allocate a block to proper fans then they can certainly improve the way they operate it.


  32. – 1 clearance from Salgado off the line
    – Wilshire’s 6 yard miss
    – Van Persie’s point black header

    I think I agree with Limpar, luck has certainly left us in the shit lately!

  33. Good post YW,

    We can’t give up hope for the season, even if no rational neutral will bet against manu regaining the title. However stranger things have happened. A win against Blackpool will be a good place to start.

    Have to ask what your sources are for this statement:
    “…Apparently though Arsène’s priorities are clear when it comes to new faces: experienced winners….”
    I also wonder if you really even believe it. Its not the first time Arsene has said things like without actually delivering on it.

  34. *has said things like that without actually delivering on it

  35. This squad just haven’t performed anywhere near their potential at home this season. Mostly excellent away from home, but the subdued performances against the ‘lesser’ teams for me shows that they’re too scared to take risks in front of our fans.

    There is a massive weight on their shoulders due to past failures and when that happens, things need freshening up. Personnel changes can’t happen this season, but I would like to see a formation change just to give them something else to think about.

    My preference is to play 4-4-1-1 for the remainder of the season with Theo central and furthest forward and RvP in the ‘hole’. It might work or it might not, but it will make us less predictable and might change the players focus a bit.

    We can then spill blood in June, as seems necessary. But let’s just let the female Frank Lampard sing her song first.

  36. Continuing from my last post…
    Didn’t Arsene actually come out at one point to say we were after Hazard? He may not have won much but I still think he’s a tidy player. Won’t mind at all of we sign him.

  37. At times the ball was ricocheting around the penalty box like a pinball, bigM. We were unlucky the ball didn’t drop for us there as it so often will do. Chances like Jack’s, and a few of the headers in the 2nd half end up in the net 9 times out of ten. We were unlucky not to connect properly on a few of them.

    I think finishing is an area that needs improvement. I’ve said that for a long time. But we weren’t shot-shy on Saturday. We got on the end of a lot of chances… somtimes chances like that fly in off whatever you can get on them, sometimes they don’t. Lots didn’t on Saturday. That’s unlucky.

  38. Chris Goona “Man United showed in the 1st half at West Ham how poor they really are – had it not been for another United favouring refereeing sensation, saturdays draw wouldn’t be so bad”.
    I despise Man U, but you have got to be impressed with how they came back and won the game. They have characters who can lift the team and will fight to the last. Regardless of the Man U result, our result and most importantly the performance, were poor.

  39. Henristic

    When Wenger came to the club did he mouth off about turning Arsenal into a top european team… turning us into a globally admired attacking team… challenging for trophies every year… etc etc etc etc

    Before you throw words back into the mouth of a man that has transformed and taken our club to a new level, just think. He has delivered a lot more than any manager could in his position. Try prove that otherwise.

    Many clubs have crumbled after moving stadium where financial restraints have had a massive impact. We can see the progress, we are touching distance from delivering trophies, and their are supporters who couldn’t give a fuck about all the hard work that has gone in to get us where we are today.

    It makes me sick to be associated with fans who act in such a way.

  40. Well said Chris. It truly is disgusting. Plenty of people on some awful blogs calling Wenger every name under the sun. It’s absolutely horrid.

  41. Personally, there are a lot of reasons that are very valid on why Wenger should be moved upstairs – failing to motivate your team is now the latest. Tactically, a manager at this level should also be better tactically.

    It isn’t just playing personnel that needs to be changed and I don’t really see that much change going to happen this summer which means more of the same next year. Can fans put up with that? I am not so sure.

  42. I agree we were a bit unlucky not to score against Blackburn. I had actually started celebrating the point blank VP header as I was so sure it was going in.

    I kept feeling that at least one of those chances will go in. In the last 10 minutes or so, we seemed to loose intensity rather than gain it, and didn’t like that likely to score any more, even after taking into account Bendtners chances from corners.

  43. I’d prefer it if Arsenal had spent billions on the Lesser Ronaldo. And, got in Adebayor on loan. On recruiting the best manager in the world.
    And lost at home Sporting Gijon. Or 5-0 away against BBB (with all eleven players on the pitch).

  44. Henristic @ 12.26

    The point of that statement is to highlight the inconsistencies of the demands of those who want change.

    Continually we are told Arsene has to sign winners, Premier League experienced players, etc. The first two are mutually exclusive unless he is going to raid Man Utd or Chelsea. Yet demands for Hazard, Mertesacker and Cahill are rife all of the time. Yes, even Mertesacker has won one German Cup and that is it. He is not a proven winner. He is experienced though but not a winner.

    If those are the criteria, fine but be consistent, stick to it or just make the demand “World Class players” and then it becomes opinion about who is or isn’t World Class.


  45. Chris G, there you go again ranting like a loon. I sometimes wonder if you can read.
    What exactly upset you about my post? Did I say Wenger wasn’t our most successful manager? Did I slag him off? Did I slander him in any way? What is your problem dude?

  46. theBigM

    I hold a lot of respect for United. They have a good squad, full of experienced winners, and they have a great organization about them. That is where my admiration stops I’m afraid. We have players of a better level technically, but we are certainly not showing that in the last month or so. We seem to crumble under pressure still, not just in defence but as a team. We haven’t taken the chances. In the cup final, at the Nou Camp, and once again on saturday in the league. You can just sense the nerves around the Emirates, we are frightened of the prosepect in failing when we should be pushing this team to win.

    I just dont get the whole pessimistic outlook around our club when there are so many things to be optimistic about. The season ain’t over, we still have a chance yet going by what a section of our supporter are saying, we are already finished.

  47. Fair enough, Yogi.
    I guess I missed the sarcasm in that part of your post

  48. *has said things like that without actually delivering on it

    You made it perfectly clear where you stand. You are just another fan waiting for the opportunity to throw anything at him.

    Don’t now try to shy away from it.

  49. @Henristic;

    I’m starting to feel like that is the main problem. When people talk about our “problems”, what do they mean? Did anyone complain that we could start AA-RVP-Theo-Nasri-Jack-Song as our front 6 with Cesc, Cham and NB as subs? Because THAT is our problem. Our players aren’t taking their chances at the moment. We’re missing point blank opportunities all over the place.

  50. I think Giggs is one of the reasons why ManU don’t give up easily, when they are chasing a lead. His urgency seems to rub off on the other players.

  51. ChrisGoona – We may have better players technically, but that doesn’t account for much when they have players with fire in their belly. If we had a bit of that, then yes, these players would be better.

    I think that there is a complacency that exists in the players minds. They just need to turn up and get all three points. They aren’t all like that, mind. This complacency doesn’t exist at Utd because Fergie would shoot a rocket up their backsides and make changes. Wenger just doesn’t do that – or he does it very rarely.

  52. I do agree that voices called for proven winners can often be inconsistent. The whole thing about world class winners is a bit overblown, probably as an overreaction to Wengers frugal ways.

    The mancs hardly sign any ‘world class proven winners’ and they’ve not done too badly have they? I don’t remember, Rio, Vidic, Rooney, C.Ronaldo etc, winning much before been bought by United.

  53. Something needs to change. The fact is that nobody knows what it is. People have their opinions – lack of desire, tactics etc – but for the time being all we can do is support the team and ask questions come the end of the season. One thing is for certain: anybody calling Wenger a c*nt or anything else like it has no place supporting this club.


  54. But not everyone excels with a “shoot a rocket up their backsides” approach…different players respond differently. We can’t be sure about the results if Wenger adopts this approach.

  55. ChrisGoona | April 4, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    *has said things like that without actually delivering on it
    You made it perfectly clear where you stand. You are just another fan waiting for the opportunity to throw anything at him.
    Don’t now try to shy away from it.

    You really are something Chris G. What is wrong or false about that statement?
    Where I stand?? I shouldn’t try to ‘shy away from it’? lol. Wtf?

  56. Chris, Anyone who calls for Wenger to go, in my opinion, doesn’t have a fucking clue and should be ignored. They don’t deserve to debate about the team.

  57. nola@12.49,
    I’m not sure what I’ve said that you’re responding to. I certainly agree that the players aren’t taking their chances and need to improve on that.

  58. Spot on Markus. It’s not only that, most people who want him to go seem to feel the need to express their desire for Arsene to leave by calling for him to die etc.


  59. I think we are actually a mid table team which has over achieved for the last 7 years. It is based on the fact the meager price we pay for the players we buy as compared to the top 4 teams.
    We have to wait for another 3 years for renewal of our commercial contracts, to become a debt free club and for the expected retirement of Arsene before we compete with the big league clubs for the super stars.

  60. Our crossing from the flanks has improved but very often there is no one to meet them…could be because we cross too early or could be case of lack of anticipation from players who are supposed to the meet the crosses.

  61. Arsenal havent lost a game in the Prem since last year.

  62. Thanks YW, another great post.

    The performance was one of fatigue and lacking match sharpness. To be expected after the international break, and having important players coming back from injury. Wilshere’s miss was huge, but I’m sure he can recover from that, no problem. I also wish he would have shot rather than trying to square it whenever that was.. Something he will work on in the future I’m sure and we’ll start to see more goals from him.

    Manure have many more games than us, and wont be able to rest all the big guns mid week, meaning that they are very likely to drop at least a couple of points here and there (including when we nail them at the Emirates) so all is definitely not lost.

    I was gutted and slightly embarrassed to hear the massive boos at the end of the match. I know the crowd would hardly be jumping for joy, but the boos were sad to hear.

  63. Chris Goona “I just dont get the whole pessimistic outlook”.
    The attacks on Arsene are out of order and regardless of what you think of him now, he should be treated with great respect for what he has done for our club, but I can understand some of the pessismism from fans. Our season like a fair few of the last seasons has imploded again and its the same old weaknesses… and the lack of desire and fight is there again. Alright, we are not out of winning the league, but can you seriously see us doing it with the tough games we have left?
    Anyway, I think Arsenal are at a real cross roads, win some of our next games and challenge Man U for the title and then win the title or come runners up and that is a good season, but if we slip to 3rd or even 4th there will have to be some changes.

  64. You’re right theBigM. Pessimism is one thing but the attacks on Wenger are another. It’s sad that it’s come to this.


  65. I wasn’t alone in looking silly when I shot out of my seat to demand Chris Samba be booked… only to be hushed up by Robin Van Persie as he explained to Dowd that it wasn’t a foul worthy of a booking. “BOOK HIM, DOWD! YOU CLOWN!” quickly turned into polite applause… “Well played, Robin, well played sir”.

    Really though… you don’t see that very often in football. What a bloody hero RVP is. Gent and scholar.

  66. tbM – I agree that if we slip to 3 or 4th spot, some big changes will be needed – as that would be a very very worrying collapse. However, I am certain we will hold onto 2nd, and optimistic that we can take the title race to the wire. Not exactly sure what changes would be made (other than signings)? Tactics and motivation (if they are the issues) will be much harder to change than simply personnel…

  67. Limpar, I was certain it was a bad foul too. The Cuntelans from BBB would’ve been calling for a red I’m sure.

  68. Peacefrog,
    You’re kinda right that we can’t be sure that the ‘blowdryer’ approach will work better with our players. However I do recall a game against Liverpool a couple of seasons ago where Arsene did pretty much that at half time with the players and it worked. Apparently the players were so stunned by the change in approach that they actually went on give a much better performance and consequently won the game.

    I guess the question is whether the ‘shock’ effect of that style of management will wear off after a while. In answering that one has to keep in mind the ol’ red nosed one has been using that approach for decades, and it still looks like working for him. He doesn’t seem to have a problem motivating his players/team.

    My thinking is that Arsene isn’t comfortable using that approach at all. Unlike the uncultured Fergie, he is not a naturally abrasive character and as such isn’t disposed to yelling at people ( or however Fergie does it).

  69. blowdryer, blowdrier, hairdrier, hairblower??

  70. guyz jus imagine we sell cecs buy schweinsteiger and benzema and we win the premier league …
    also sell denielson, diaby, rosicky and almunia for sure.
    promote lansbury, pedro, ramsay, bartley, frimpong and mannone.

  71. So many opinions with so little information. Booing a team in second place with 8 games to go is simply unacceptable.

  72. The season’s not over yet guys – we’re all on the same side so stop fighting amongst yourselves!

  73. At times i would love Wenger to make changes early, on Saturday we crossed a lot and there was no one to use them. What stopped him for putting height early on in the 2nd half?

  74. I agree with Frank. Not that my posts have been rammed with information ;-), but the booing is disgraceful.

  75. If you booed in that game on Saturday, then you have no right to share in any success this season or in the future. You are not a supporter, you are a burden. In a nutshell that is what you pessimists actually are to the club, the players and more reasonable supporters. A burden.

  76. Frank is right. Booed off the pitch in second place. Anybody who booed at the end of that game is a joke and shouldn’t be attending games.


  77. Anthony Timothy

    Wenger’ game plan of passing here,there,everywhere except to the spectator stand is to be blamed. Why?It gives defender time to regroup.
    How did Fulham score the first goal?A high ball eluded the defenders giving them no time to regroup. Only three defenders came running back but the striker had space to run and fired ann unerring shot into goal.
    Now contrast that to the gunners against BR. Eight to ten defenders .Yet the gunners persisted in trying to weave a way thru.The result is a foregone conclusion.
    A coach could help Wenger unlock this type of defence.If the fm persist s
    in his pattern weaving soccer,a Hull scenario is on the cards.

  78. Agree. Deepends on the person who is dishing out the blowdryer treatment – Capello is known to be stern – has not yet worked for England. I attribute our current lack of form to a comination of burn out and bad luck. Our style of play is one that can cause fatigue…which is why the depth in squad androtation is important for Arsenal. It does not help when the replacements keep getting injured and have to play themselves back to form.

  79. That is complete rubbish, Anthony Timothy. There were crosses coming in from both sides, at one point in the second half it was raining crosses. If RvP or Andrei don’t score, nobody does at the moment. But it is not always that way and it won’t be in games to come.

  80. @ The Spurs fan | April 4, 2011 at 11:19 am |

    Yeah like you have managed to do so in the last 15 yrs he been in charge – U FOOL

  81. I’ve read the above and while all blog sites have progresively polarised into for or against Wenger we all have to accept a growing disillusionment around the club.
    The facts are we have a lower points total at this point of the season than last (59 v 64)
    We have lost at home to Spurs and West Brom this season
    This team has not manifestly improved this season, Chelsea and Man Utd have fallen back. Man City and Spurs have closed the gap.
    We have seen the same late season collapse for the last 4 seasons. This is a squad in a comfort zone, and compare unfavourably with Man Utd’s squad of far inferior talents.
    We have seen some bad luck and bizzaar refereeing decisions this season but we cannot use this as an excuse.
    Wenger has brought this situation on himself by not freshening the squad in January, especially as he admits he new Vermaleen was unlikely to recover. Or opting to strengthen in the summer. He is now potentially left trying to rebuild just as Man Utd and Chelsea seek to do the same not forgetting Liverpool and Spurs who will also push to move to another level.
    Wenger is in danger of tainting his achievements, increasingly it looks like the real force behind the sucess was the Dein/Wenger partnership rather than Wenger himself with Dein able to counterbalance Wenger’s developmental tendancies. I appreciate that Wenger has had his hands tied due to redevelopment but that doesn’t explain our wage bill paying large amounts of money to untried players.
    After what Wenger has done for the club it is up for him to say when he goes but the current strategy and squad haven’t worked

  82. 1 loose cannon

    Agree Frank I thought the home fans were a disgrace. They did not get the team going, It was all ironic cheers every time Almunia catchs the ball which made him more nervous than ever. there was no continues support it was in patches, as soon as we lose the ball you hear them making that pathetic groaning noise as if we lost the game. And the boing at the end was uncalled for, it is simpl;y not helping at all.

  83. theBigM

    I agree with what you say. This team needs to react now, for some they are playing for their careers. I believe we can do it, 2nd is still a disappointment in every Arsenal fans eyes. They need to really show some character now and get the results. Slipping to 3rd is unthinkable, if that were to happen I am not sure how bad Wenger would take it considering we were in touching distance to winning something this season.

    The pessimism for me needs to somehow be put to one side when we are in a title race – or at any stage of the season. This team could well go on and claim the title, ‘how big an idiot’ will many a fan look like eh?

    It seems to me we let ourselves down every season, not just on the pitch.

  84. Unfortunately you can’t reason with stupidity. Try to explain to fans who booed that it doesn’t help and they’ll simply come back with ‘I pay my money to be here’. Unfortunately they struggle to answer the obvious subsequent question: ‘then why don’t you support your team?’


  85. Alex Ice Cream


    We are not in the title race; we won’t win it it has been obvious for weeks now.

    We are more likely to finish 3rd than 1st.

  86. It would be hard but not impossibl to overtake ManU at this stage in the season.My head says we’re not going to win the league though.There seems to be a lethargy within the team.Cant explain it.We may argue they played internationals but the United players did the same.
    Can we carry on like this? definitely no.Arsene will need to reappraise his strategy if we end the season empty handed again.As they say only a mad person can carry on doing the same thing and expecting to get a different result.

  87. Bradys right foot

    I’ve no doubt well win at Blackpool infact our away form has been fantastic all season 26 points away from home, more than any other team. No accident that, I’d hazard a guess that many of the team would prefer to play away than at the Emirates. Some Arsenal fans are a disgrace, some are not but honestly the shoegazing is nausiating. This is football and your only as good or bad as your next result, all eyes should focus on blackpool. For all the many muppets in the Arsenal inhabitated recesses of the internet there is but one message grow a pair COYG.

  88. Agree with Frank.

    Sitting in 2nd place and booing. I don’t understand why these fans go to watch the team.

  89. vivb, the league is closer this year than it has been in years so number of points is not what is important, it is where we are in a more competitive league.

  90. Limestonegunner

    Booing was a complete disgrace. The lack of support is just getting ridiculous. For or against Wenger is a meaningless debate. He is here to stay. However, as Consolsbob said, there are some problems and there will need to be some changes if this flat sort of performance persists and we end the season heading down rather than up. In the meantime, let’s talk about what might actually improve our team’s performance tactically and give them support rather than vitriol. We have stagnated since that draw at Newcastle, apart from a fantastic performance at home against Barcelona. We are making teams plummeting look far better than they are–Sunderland and Blackburn especially have had a dire period but get a point from us. This is a serious problem that I hope we can finally come back from. Blackpool is a good opportunity to play better and build up toward tough but potentially energizing games v. Liverpool and away to Spurs. Win the next three on the bounce and we will be up for the ManU game. We are still in this, but not if the team keeps playing like this or if the tepid support evaporates. Maybe we are lucky more of our run-in are away games and if we are still in with a shout the support should be strong for the ManU match at home. This civil war among supporters is getting totally counterproductive and needs to calm down. Hold your fire until the summer. I don’t think 2nd is really all that great, but dropping to third or fourth would be really demoralizing and winning would be wonderful. Still something serious to play for.

  91. AIC

    You can choose to take that view. I and many others will continue to believe. This team certainly has the capabailities to do it. If you have watched this team all season long you should surely see it too. The lack of belief you continue to show AIC just sums up how weak you and many of our supporters have become.

    Win our game in hand … 4 points off top with 7 games to go. You don’t have to be good at maths to see we have a good chance still. 1 slip up from United and we are back in the driving seat.

  92. Blackpool could be just the team we need to play rightnow. Their home form is poor and our away form has been good this season. They also like to play football and leave a few gaps at the back. If we could score a few goals this would do wonders for our confidence and kick start our challenge again.

  93. Well to Boo louder than you have cheered all match long is a good sign of the mentality of many Arsenal supporters.

    These jokers want the team to pick them up and cause them to cheer when it should be the opposite, especially in cases like Saturday, the team really needed a lift but boos and name calling (from what I have read) Instead. what a shame!

    I for one dont believe Arsenal need changes (though I am not against some good buys) apart from the supporters, if we could get some real supporters who dont only turn up for Barcelona matches we would be in better shape, of that I have no doubt.

    The most important thing is for this team is to somehow find the faith, they must believe in their abilities and play up to the high standard that they know they can. Sadly, maybe they shouldnt expect support from the majority of Arsenal supporters.

  94. Limestonegunner

    I think we do want to think about why, when our defense has actually been quite strong despite lots of injuries and changes, we have had so much problem scoring in the league since Newcastle. RvP was on fire in January and the first part of February. Is it the absence of Cesc and Song to set up our attack from midfield? Is it Theo being out? I see a lot of fullback play and long crosses from the corners even before we throw Chamakh and Bendtner on. Maybe against physical teams packing the midfield and defense we need them to come on earlier or even start with RvP on the wing or playing in a 442?

    Anyway, it is a different prospect against Blackpool, a more open game, hopefully that will get us back on track.

  95. Limstone, we did beat Wolves and Stoke also since the Newcastle match, we even pasted Leyton Orient (I know its only LO) by 5. I believe, it was the Barca match that took a lot out of the team. I expected that we would take some time to recover, tough blow that. The good thing is we havent lost in the PL even though we are not playing at our best. 1 good result will turn the whole things around, I hope that comes this weekend.

  96. Its also true that Arsenal usually play like this after internationals. Most of our players did look slow. To me we have a deep enough squad where we couldve given certain players a rest and maybe bring them on as subs, they just didnt look fresh.

  97. It seems to me that as a supporter your options are always very limited. You either get behind the team or you don’t. If you take the latter course then you have to decide whether you really are a supporter. If you decide you are not then best to just fade away. No point in evangelising, for what would be the point of trying to get other people not to support the team? Or barking at someone that does support the team?

  98. It MUST come this weekend. Right now, despite what everyone is saying, we are still in a decent position. United will slip up at least once more, most probably against Chelsea. But should we not get the needed result against Blackpool … we’ll, I am not so sure that United will manage to slip up twice (and lose against us.).

  99. Limestonegunner

    You are right Paul N. We have won since then, and I think the Stoke game was a strong performance. I think the CC final was an important blow. But dating when we started having trouble scoring isn’t really the point. Since we scored four, we haven’t produced many goals even in games we win and in games we have lots of chances. So I don’t know if it is a matter of creating better chances or being more clinical in our finishing. But we have had trouble scoring recently and I wonder why.

  100. Limestonegunner


  101. Yes, it is quite confusing about our lack of goals, we did put in 2 last week but for the most part we have scored no more than one goal. Its also kinda of hard because againts Sunderland we havd a good goal chalked off and one pen shout where Arshavin got pushed to the ground not given and then United get one like Saturday’s? So we look at stats and all we can see is the big “0”, unfortunetly it doesnt take anything into account.

  102. Paul N has pretty much hit the nail on the head: when your supporters don’t cheer all game but manage to boo loudly at the end you’ve got a big problem.


  103. It is indeed a good thing that Blackpool’s style is different. It is entertaining and should give us space to work our magic. But their almost wanton attacking style CAN be a double edged sword which could cause us problems if we are not careful. I sometimes get the feeling that after playing a few games against team who sit back, we tend to get rather surprised by a team that actually attacks and then go on to concede stupid goals.
    However, I won’t mind that at all if we are able to take our own chances on the other side and outscore them. We just need to get the goals going in again and the overall performances should pick up from there.

  104. Its so annoying when you hear the boos and groans, knowing that if you were lucky enough to get a seat in the Emirates, you’d be shouting yourself hoarse every time. Acutally it’s not just annoying, it makes me sick. Must be very frustrating for those die hard supporters in the stadium when your passionate chants are drowned out by the plastic majority who make us all look like spoilt brats. Fucking disgusting.

  105. Borges Spinelli

    I’ve refrained from commenting until now, as I’m still very enraged by the re-occurring theme on the pitch. I love my team far beyond words can express; loath their decline.

    More importantly, it has come to my attention that our beloved team captain, Cesc Fábregas, has been involved in a car accident. Sketchy details so far, so good.

  106. Limestone, creating chances is never the problem. We need to be more clinical. Our finishing hasn’t been clinical enough, also oppositions tend to have a wall of flesh in front of the goal, and as a result we make opposition goalkeepers look like they’re having the game of their lives when in reality most of the saves they are pulling off are standard enough.

  107. Geo – I assure you that it’s impossible to reason with these people as I’m sure you can imagine. We tried to on Saturday when people where giving Almunia ironic cheers for catching the ball. All we got was abuse for our efforts. You can’t reason with stupidity. Typical conversation:

    ‘Why don’t you support the team?’
    ‘Yes you are, but why not save it for full time or post-match?’



  108. Twas a minor collision. No-one was hurt.

  109. Good post YW: As of this date the team seems to have surrendered. Perhaps we can get it together for the last 8 games but its difficult to be optimistic given what has happened in past years. I really think the squad lacks a deep seated belief in itself as a team. It seems like they expect to fail at this time of the season. We talked about Wenger’s management style in the comments section of the blog during the interlull. (3/30/11 @ 3:54 and 3/31/11 @ 2:50). Players love to play for a someone like Wenger, no one likes to get yelled at or do repetitive defensive drills but often players (especially the younger players) respond better to a stricter task-manager type. Part of Wenger’s management style is the culture of making excuses for failures (the pitch, injuries, international travel, long balls, negative football, no protection, referees, bad fans, negative blogosheres etc ). BTW (I love this blog but we excel at excuses). This has allowed the players and management to blame someone else and not themselves when things go wrong. It sets up a culture where it was OK to come in 2nd since the problem is our fault and when we started to consistently come in 2nd, 3rd or 4th we lost the belief that we could come in 1st. Once you lose that belief its very hard to go back. History is full of talented teams that consistently underperform. I am sure the problem has many other facets and I am not a sports psychologist but clearly the biggest problem rests between the players ears at this point. Lack of mental strength come in many different forms.

    On a more concrete subject I still dislike Wengerball and have for the last 2 years. Its a system that seems to require lots of moving parts to work well simultaneously and perhaps due to its complexity it often fails under pressure. What is disconcerting is the fact that the failures seem to be a moving target. I used to think that it was all a problem with defense, but now even when our defense keeps a clean sheet something else goes wrong. Its also frustrating that teams like ManU and Chelsea with less talent then us have consistently outscored and out defended us in the past using what appear to be much simpler and more straightforward tactics.

    With regard to the fans I think they are just remarkably frustrated. Absolutely nothing is more frustrating to fans then a team that consistently plays “below its potential”. None of us really know what we want because we are just fans and not football people. Asking for a group of fans to be consistent is not not realistic. I guess you channel your frustration against the fans as a way to protect the team.

    Hopefully we will make a great come back and win the title this year and all will be fixed. If not, I hope some “significant” changes are made. IMO, I do not think we totally blow up the squad or sack Wenger or spend ourselves into oblivion, but adding 3 – 4 players that the fans and players get excited about and making some changes in the assistant coaching staff and tactics would all help.

  110. I would like to see Chamakh paired up with RVP.

  111. Limestonegunner

    Paul N, I would like to see that too. Chamakh defends fairly well from the front and on set plays so pairing him with RvP wouldn’t necessarily weaken us defensively as long as Song is healthy. But who sits from the midfield/front three?

  112. I disagree with Bill

  113. I have a question, how to let know the players that you as a paying fan(s) is/are not happy with the team performance? If they are playing well then u cheer them on, what is wrong with booing them when the team underperforms, it’s not like the fans are booing at every bad performance. Fans weren’t booing at the middle of the game but at the end to tell the players that fans are not happy. This season the players and the manager were talking abt the possibility of a quadruple, the team lose one cup final and decides that if the team cannot win quadruple then they’ll not win any trophy. Everyone has a breaking point, there will come a point where even the most optimistic of fan will not be happy with the team achievements. It may take another 6 years or 10 years of trophy drought but you’ll reach there where the booing fans are right now. What will you do at that moment, STOP SUPPORTING THE CLUB, or boo the team in the hope that the team performs better next game.

  114. If you were going to pair those 2 up, i would play a 451 and have Rvp, Nasri, Theo/Arsh all free role rotating behind Chamster… could definitely work – especially with the more consistent crossing of late.

  115. nobody – i’d tell those who boo to fuck off out of the stadium and watch it on telly with their mates (if they have any), and free up some damn space for those who will give it their all and turn the Emirates into a fortress… they can ‘support’ the team from the comfort of their own dark little half empty room.

  116. Limestone, I think either Nasri or Walcott could come on as as sub, I guess Walcott given his ability to scare the crap out defenders. RVP is creative and fast enough upfront, I think. I think this would be good, especially with team who will just sit back, we need someone who can get on the end of the crosses. We had some good ones on Saturday but maybe not the right personnel to get on the end of them.

  117. If you think we didn’t put the ball in the back of the net on Saturday because the players think that it’s “OK to come in 2nd” then you’ve got a fucking screw loose.

  118. I agree with Geo

  119. Limestonegunner

    Bill, while supporters are frustrated, don’t we think that while we still have a chance, even if diminishing, we should try to encourage the team in the ground rather than boo them?

    I like Wengerball but sometimes think the players are a bit tentative around the box or going for an extra pass when a shot can achieve more. It also doesn’t work as well when our movement and passing is slow; and for some reason the team was not playing with the kind of pace needed.

    We can table the rest of the discussion about the team and squad. Look if we pull off a string of wins and actually win this, the confidence boost for the younger players will be immense. By the same token, if we stagnate in this position or go backwards, the team will have hit a rut and some things will have to be examined.

  120. noboday, get real. The supporters moan all the damn time, they are almost never happy and the whole world knows it.

    the fans were not booing in the middle of the game but they were not cheering either. Atleast if you believe you have the right to boo you should take your right to cheer as serious, even moreso.

    Sounded like a blasted funeral!

  121. “Noone’s shouted at me for a while, or blamed me for missing chances before… noone’s told me off for losing….” – thinks Jack in the half-second it takes for the ball to drop into his path – “It’s OK to come in 2nd… It’s OK to miss this…” *paff* Jack shoots wide.


  122. Limestonegunner

    Geo, Paul N, some interesting ideas. I do think we might want to try something new if we don’t get on track at Blackpool. The players were away and traveling, and as Paul N reminded us, we often take a game to play well together after an international break.

  123. I agree with Paul N @3:39.

  124. I agree with Paul N @3:44.
    But then, why would anyone agree with a dunce attempting to be a WUM.

  125. Let’s get sgt. major Sammy Lee in to shout high-pitched expletives during training sessions…. “Feeeex bayonets! STAB!!!!”… “Tweeest bayonets! STAB!!”…. “Dunnae tickle it, boyo! KEEEEL!”

    Crack the whip, issue warnings, dock wages for dropped points, drop players for missed chances, revert to 5-4-1, stop fannying around with all this passing and hit it long once in while, shoot, and above all else stop dropping points. Simple. Time to embrace the dark side…

  126. Alex Ice Cream


    It’s not about maths, it’s about whether the team has the ability mentally to win the league. They don’t. Look at recent result and how many spring collapses we have had to suffer over the years. There is a big difference mentally between winners and second.

    I have the same level of belief as the team: none.

    Don’t waste your energy hoping these losers will come good because they won’t. I am not throwing in the towel, the team and manager are the ones who have done this.

  127. Paul, I think that is our best bet when Cesc is missing/short on form. Chamakh up top with Van Persie the creative force behind. We played that way a few times when Cesc was missing earlier in the season without having to lose the 4-2-3-1 formation.

  128. Oh, and 3-4 new players too… doesn’t really matter who. For the time-being they can be entirely fictitious in fact… just a cloudy concept of greener grass on the other side… Carlos Kickaball and Larry Nutkins…. and Darth Rinseout…. and Uber DM-man.

    Overspend on this lot if at all possible – because it’ll make us all feel better.

  129. Thankfully it’s not your towel to throw in, Alex Ice Cream.

  130. @Geo
    U cheer the team regardless of the team performance or the result, that’s a good thing. But you can’t expect everyone to be like you, it’s human nature to voice their disappointments somehow, booing ur own team may not be the best of way though.

  131. Hang on.
    Does AIC play for Stoke?

  132. @nobody – maybe if those same people have spent 90 minutes trying to rouse a performance out of the team first. Unfortunately, the crowd on Saturday did nothing but give abuse.


  133. Rory Delap might throw the towel in one of these fine days.

  134. Correct, timlove, there was booing at half time too.

  135. Aye this Premier League management carry-on is overrated. How hard can it be? Pick a few world-class players out of your arse and problem solved. They’ll fit right into your squad no bother, and find their stride immediately. Plus, you know, they’re definitely all available and would love to pay 40% of their wages in tax. And Joe Bloggs is a much better player than Denilson what with having 1 years experience in a fanny European league.

  136. Nice seto Geo,

    And since Cesc is injured, Song and wilshere can be the ‘holding’ midfielders in what could also be a 4-2-3-1. As usual the front 4 will rotate but when under pressure or when we need to win the ball back, Nasri can come in the middle to complete a midfield 3, pushing RvP out wide.

  137. Borges Spinelli

    It has to be noted that our home support at the Emirates was ABYSMAL (as usual). If supporters aren’t there to encourage and cheer the players on, when they attend games, someone please tell me what on God’s earth are these spineless, mono-testicled bozos doing at a sporting arena. This ain’t no damn puccini opera show or an evening gala at the Hamptons. Where has your frickin’ passion gone, you stiff jerks?

    The team’s confidence is already at an all-time low. And I hear people bemoaning the team’s ‘lack of grit’. Yet, I’m struggling to find supporters who are willing to match what they themselves demand from the guys, busting their butts, weekly, on the pitch. At this rate, we might as well be playing in a library or nunnery each week, ‘cos in time that’s what we’ll deserve.

  138. * Nice set up Geo.
    Wish I’d stop to read what I write before hitting post….

  139. AIC, being a human you have a choice not to support the team. Dont, but then are you are Arsenal “supporter”.

  140. Bloody well said Borges.


  141. Skywatchingmug

    There has always been a symbiotic relationship between the players and the support at all clubs. At the Arsenal it tended to be, if a player gives his all the fans will get 100% behind them. A players weaknesses would be overlooked as long as he puts in a good shift. It has to be said since the League Cup Finale, we have been waiting for a positive reaction. As a fan after a defeat like that you want to see the team bounce back in impressive style. It settles the nerves of the team and fans.
    Arsen has his work cut out getting the team out this rut in time to win the league. The fans can play there part but truthfully it’s down to the team. What they do on the pitch reacts on the supporters and the level of support they are given. Human nature or The Arsenal way? Right or wrong, thats how it is.
    Hope springs and all that, of winning the league. But come the end of the season what ever happens, a good fair audit needs to done. Not just of the team.
    Lets all get behind them.

  142. I agree with you Borges Spinelli!

    What most dont even realize is that if this team wasnt trying hard they would have lost instead of drawn the last few matches. This is how confidence works, when it is low you have to fight above the norm and maybe get a lesser result. There in lies the importance of the supporters to do there job and help pick the team up.

  143. “their” jobs…

  144. Skywatchingmug, that is a false perception that the team is not working hard. I dont buy that if the supporters believed the players were giving their all and we still got the same results that they wouldnt have behaved like jerks.

    Arshavin ran the whole length or the field and made a great tackle and that only stirred the crowd for maybe a minute if that.

    Many supporters of teams that are no even close to our level put us to shame. I remember in one of CL matches, not sure what team is what but us winning was a forgone conclusion and their supporters kept cheering like crazy.

  145. Thar’s it! The team’s poor results are down to the supporters. Do people really swallow this shit?

  146. Are you simple, theBigM? Find it difficult to hold more than one concept in your head at a time? Thick as fucking pigshit.

  147. Limestonegunner

    Paul N, I think it was Partizan Belgrade. Imagine if our ground was like that more often. To be fair, it was a very big European tie for that club.

  148. …and there lies the rub

  149. Borges Spinelli

    As it stands, Manchester United are 7 points ahead with 7 games remaining. And us, 8 games.

    We have to WIN all our games, including beating them. And hope they draw with Chelsea. That would give them 16 points from 7 games + their 7 point lead = 23 points

    Winning the 8 games gives us 24 points and stealing the title by 1 point. Each game MUST be treated as a knock-out phase. No more meandering from the players. Same goes for my fellow supporters. Raise your heads up and STOP with the loser mentality on the terraces and blogosphere.

  150. Not really Frank, I’m just able to get my head out of my arse and stop blaming every one/everything else for the team’s poor results.

  151. Thats very simplistic comment BigM however it could play a part for it is FACT that teams mostly do better at home, why is that?

    What we are saying is that the team needs to be lifted and acting like a jerk and not cheering them on is counterproductive.

    We played the “best” team in the world and came back to beat them and the players said that the support played a huge part.

    I am surprised that you cannot the rationale in what is being said.

  152. Limestone, our remaining matches are HUGE! it would seem as if this would be easy to grasp.

    BigM, obviously the team has to take some responsibility, again a simplistic comment, but if supporters are supposed to support and lift the team, if they do the opposite shouldnt they take some responsibility for not doing their job also.

    The commentator said it on Saturday that Arsenal supporters many time work against the team when things are not going well.

  153. Paul N – I’m capable of following your argument. Teams tend to better at home because they are playing on their own pitch, in their own surroundings and do not have travel to another ground. It’s a territorial thing more than anything. The fans do play a role, but a limited one. They mainly respond to what is happening on the pitch. I’m sure a passionate set of fans can fire players up, but they should be able to fire themselves up anyway. I would never, ever boo my own team though.

  154. I agree with Paul on the “I’m a season ticket holder since 1899” fans at the Emirates. I think we are the only team that their fans start screaming at their players 15 minutes into the game if we didn’t score.

    I don’t know who were the commentators on that game, but one of them actually said that and he was absolutely right.

    On the other hand, I just don’t know why the players have such a flat performance? For a team fighting for the league title in it’s final stages and not having won any trophies for years, playing only in one competition now, you would think our performance would be much better than that.

  155. “if supporters are supposed to support and lift the team, if they do the opposite shouldnt they take some responsibility for not doing their job also”
    I would agree to an extent, booing and getting on players back is pointless and negative and I don’t understand why people do it. But the players and manager should be busting their guts for the fans who happen to pay their wages. Could you see Stoke City’s fans putting up with some of the half-arsed home displays that Arsenal have put in this year?

  156. BigM, if you think the advantage is mostly being familiar with a ground then there is no point to the discussion. If thats the case, maybe it would be better to play our home matches in an empty Emirates.

    I am quite surprised by your comments.

  157. Well the team is playing hard but poorly, what makes you think they are not playing hard? I dont get that at all. How do you sit down and come to the conclusion that we have a team of slackers.

    The team was playing hard but things were just not coming off. When we played WBA, the team played hard to fight back and get a draw.

    If the team is struggling it is essential the fans gets behind the team, thats what makes your home a fortress. Players will not get familiar in a place where the fans dont makes them feel good. On the contrary, they just may prefer to play away matches. Our away support is something else.

    And BigM, why is that? Why is it that the away fans understand they have to get behind the team always but the homes supporters stifle the atmosphere.

  158. I agree with Paul N

  159. Yeah. The Arsenal players do not try as hard as the Stoke players. Of course!
    That must help explain the league table.

    Anyone need a towel? Or a tissue?

  160. Limestone:

    In an ideal world sure the fans would be as vocal as Pompey fans. You know as well as I that is not a realistic expectation especially when the cost of being a fan at the Emirates tends to bring in less vocal fans. I agree that the booing is poor and should not happen but it is as old as professional sports and hoping that no one ever do that is even more wishful thinking then hoping we can buy Messi next year. Booing at Chelsea and Villa Park has been louder then at the Emirates. Using fan behavior as an excuse is just like blaming the pitch or the long plane trip back from Russia for a poor performance. Besides, if the fan support is that important then its just another reason to bring in a few new players that can get the fans excited this summer. Something needs to be done to break up the snow ball that is heading down hill. I really hope that the boss and the team goes into media lock down the rest of the year. No more public excuses or claims of mental strength since it looks bad when we don’t back it up on the pitch. Close up shop and just come out and prove the naysayers wrong.

  161. Borges Spinelli


    The team’s stagnation isn’t solely attributed to a lack of vocal support. That much is true. However, lacklustre displays over 5 weeks, mirrors the lukewarm support of the home fans. In Human Psychology: Confidence and support/reassurance are mutually interlinked. In addition to the above, there are a number of other contributory factors:
    (1) Injuries (2) loss of form (3) lack of quality in some areas (4)refereeing decisions in some games, resulting in tide going against ’em. (5) loss of concentration (6) diminishing hunger

    Combine any or all together and you’ll find a potent recipe for disaster on the f
    ield of play. Worthy enough to unsettle any team in the world. Even the best.

  162. Paul N – Supporters play a part, without doubt, but don’t overblow it. Our home form was much better last year, does that mean the supporters were better last year? Or could it be because of reasons on the pitch?
    When did I say the players were slackers?

  163. I picked Arsene’s words from the Sun:

    “He said: “You could see that mentally the focus, the mental energy level was not good enough.
    “You have to force the pace a bit more and show more determination to score a goal, and we couldn’t.
    “What we do is to first analyse what happened, why and then prepare for the next game.”
    Wenger added: “I don’t think you have to pick the players up — the players have to think about their performance, and me too.
    “We have to all together think about our performance and come back with something better than that.””

    Of course he’s trying to take the blame of the fans by saying “I don’t think you have to pick the players up — the players have to think about their performance, and me too” but we also have to pick ourselves up.

  164. Actually the support was better last year than this. It is getting worse and worse and worse

  165. Limestonegunner

    Bill, I am not using it as an excuse to explain anything away. I am simply trying to encourage everyone to consider using our support to help us during the struggle rather than as a drag on the team. Ultimately the players and manager bear responsibility but when the margins between success and failure are so small, why wouldn’t supporters try to use what little influence we might have in case it makes the difference? It isn’t as if this team has been in midtable mediocrity after spending millions and raising high expectations. We are still battling for the title even if our chances are worse. Of course we are frustrated. There is a lot to be concerned about, and I raised one topic for reflection. I just don’t see the point of undermining your players in the last stretch when we can still win.

  166. Finsbury – You miss the point. If you want a fantastic atmosphere at the emirates then you will also need fantastically committed performances from the players. A fantastic crowd will also require the players to step up their physical comittment every home game. The question is: would a great atmosphere shake some of the players out of their lethargy?

  167. NO BigM, it is you who is minimizing what home support is. It is the fans that make the home stadium a fortress, is the noise of the home support that gives team an advantage.

    Maybe the home support was better last year, given that we all are “dying” for trophies it is quite possible the fans could be giving the players a harder time. However being a supporter has nothing to do with a right to win a trophy but to get behind the team, if thats not the p0int most football supporters are wasting their time.

    The team is struggling, they need a lift from those who have the privilege of going to the matches.

    You said they were not trying hard, isnt that what you implied?

  168. LA @ 12:10

    “I enjoyed Andrey’s 50 yard trackback and slide tackle. Lazy bastard.”

    I took a lot from that. If we’ve got a shot at the title we need more of that. A lot more!


  169. BigM, the home support is not good overall, so is your explanation that the team mostly is not giving their all at homes games, and this has been a trend for many years?

  170. YW
    you sound like those politicians who are interviewed on election night 5 minutes after the polls have closed and the exit polls predict their party has lost.They say we havent lost till the last vote is counted.Then 2 hours later they admit defeat.Its the same with Arsenal its not all over but deep down we all know it really is

  171. Borges Spinelli

    “f the team is struggling it is essential the fans gets behind the team, thats what makes your home a fortress. Players will not get familiar in a place where the fans dont makes them feel good.”


  172. In all of this, could being tired have played a part?

  173. Our home support is no worse than the Man Utd home support

  174. Paul N – “BigM, the home support is not good overall”
    What is this assessment based on? Have to been to all the other premiership grounds and sampled the atmosphere or is it because some people booed on Saturday?
    Why are we always saying our support is bad?

  175. The EPL is still attainable precisely because we have been through a really tough spell topped off with an exhausting international break AND we are still second with all to play for. Saturday’s game produced was an awkward performance especially in midfield. Not lazy, but jaded. But the next game need not be the same and with one good win under our belts we are up and running again.

    The support discussion is almost redundant. I suspect the supporters are lost. They have reduced themselves to supporting a winning team only. I don’t see that changing even if we win the EPL and ECL double next year. The following year they will be grizzling again.

  176. Marky Marky – Don’t say that your break the myth held on here that Arsenal’s home support is terrible.

  177. Henristic @ 1:20
    “You’re kinda right that we can’t be sure that the ‘blowdryer’ approach will work better with our players. However I do recall a game against Liverpool a couple of seasons ago where Arsene did pretty much that at half time with the players and it worked. Apparently the players were so stunned by the change in approach that they actually went on give a much better performance and consequently won the game”

    I remember this VERY clearly, thank you for mentioning it! Pretty sure it was 09/10 in january up at anfield? I thought it was a major turning point for the team in terms of lets pick ourselves up and grind out a result. Perhaps we do need more of that, but who are we to say what is or is not happening at half time.. we could not have less of an idea!

  178. Marky Mark, supporters of other teams clown our home support, I am sure that where the term “Highbury Library” comes from.

    These are some comments are just stumpled upon about of home crowd.

    “highbury had a good atmosphere before the success, the fans become spoiled and you get the glory hunters and more corporate once the success comes.”

    “The Emriates is awful. Full of spoilt fans, glory supporters and tourists. The true Arsenal fans have been priced out of the game.”

    “Actually Highbury had the soul of the club more than anything else
    All you see in Emirates is a small propotion of true Gunners and a large one of tourists and glory hunters”

  179. The Mancs support is absolutely fucking shocking, that provides no solace at all. What they do have though is the terror that Old Trafford inspires in referees. The shocking Manc support is more than made up for by an utterly biased establishment, press and media. Sadly Arsenal do not have that advantage.

  180. Bill

    congrats on your opening days sweep! I was pleased with the way you guys bitch slapped the saux around. I dont have to explain my feelings on them to you.. and 3 HR from those two guys.. not bad!

  181. Oh no not more cod management psychology. Please nooooo

  182. Yes Marky Mark as seen by the comments I have posted it is a myth.

    BigM, your comments are laughable. Other teams have better home support than Arsenal that is easy to find out and you dont have to go to all the stadiums.

  183. I am a true Arsenal fan and I have not been priced out of the game and neither have several people near me.

  184. I agree with Frank, United have the scale tipped in their favour, however the team needs the home support now and nothing else should matter.

  185. “Actually Highbury had the soul of the club more than anything else
    All you see in Emirates is a small propotion of true Gunners and a large one of tourists and glory hunters”
    Here is the essential quandry – How does a succesful club like Arsenal, with a global following, in a globalised economy, staffed with foreign players, keep its soul? For me, as one of the “priced out” fans, the move has been a disaster, but hey, it has been good for the finances…
    So, if the atmosphere is as bad as you suggest Paul N, then Arsene Wenger and the club itself are in a large part responsible for this, no?

  186. good point to bring up the “Highbury Library” in the face of those who complain about how much better it was at highbury. there might have been a difference, but let’s be real.

    one big question comes out of this whole debate… why do you support arsenal?

  187. Oh that is a total myth. There are loads of good supporters in the Arsenal Stadium. The whining whinging bastards are more likely to be local. I see tourists of all nationalities every game, thoroughly enjoying the game and utterly bemused by the shit so-called locals. A fair share of the Highbury faithful have turned into fucking rotters.

  188. I didnt say that BigM, BUT no I dont blame Wenger and the club for those who go still call themselves “supporters” and should do that.

    As far as football prices, its not good on a whole and I would never defend it, so as far as people being priced out only the establishment can be blamed.

  189. Frank, sad if the team has to depend on tourist moreso than the locals. Thats weird.

  190. support around the whole country is bad when the perspective clubs are not performing..by asserting it only happens at arsenal is tunel vision…
    boos have been heard up and down the country in lots of countrys for years and that wont change as long as teams play shit passionless flat not give a toss football…
    the problem at the grove is that the whole atmosphere is bad..
    only certain sections sing and its getting less and less as the prices go up…the rest of the seats are either empty or are taken up by customers..observers…
    thats the real problem…

    nice post yogi…
    i think its the end of an empire..but another will rise from the ashes…if wenger changes the philosphy and makes some adjustments then theres no reason why we wont go on to finish what we started…but the current philosphy isnt working…its gone stale..it needs to be a chapter closed, long standing mistakes need to be rectified and a new era needs to be brought in…
    an era of using the money we make and the transfer window to its fullest and not dilly dallying for the sake of a few quid and buying 15 year old after 15 year old after 15 year old from around the world…wenger wont buy big cos it kills his kids, well buying a 16-17 year old also kills another 16-17 year old so its a poor arguement….
    lets get the passion back…the fans aree feeling disillusioned with the current crop..it doesnt feel like arsenal anymore…not winning titles isnt the problem the problem is the gutless spineless performances we see year after year and enoughs enough
    we now need some household signings..some big names that will cause a buzz around the club..much the same we got with wrighty, bergkamp, overmars, AA…players who werent babies and were quality buys..not the squillacis and the silvestres….we moved to the emirates to compete financially to be able to get these players every year and not have to save up for 5 years to get one…
    and not to keep a creche….
    we dont need anymore youngsters for the future we got an academy full of young arsenal boys who are itching and hungry to play for the club they love…not bribed to love…
    so lets get them in running their bollox off and mix it with the talent
    lets get the feel good factor back..if we lose we lose but at least we lose with no excuses…..

  191. Well, Paul N, Le Grave is populated by so-called locals. The people who write it reckon they have been supporters for years. Half the commentors claim to have been supporters for a long time and go to games. How do you think they behave at our home games?

  192. Oh lord here we go…be prepared to be bored witless for the next few hours

  193. Skywatchingmug

    No, the club finances depends on tourist they spend more in the club shop.

  194. I see your point Frank!

    I think JJ broke a record for the number of posts by one person, in one day, on one article, yesterday.

    Blow wow!

  195. I know! What if we move to a much smaller ground and reduce the prices by half and only have locals on the terraces and buy big players. Sorted

  196. Skywatchingmug

    Frank, it will still be The Arsenal.

  197. world class “big players”.

  198. Getting back to Stoke, I’m not sure that they tried that hard when they played against ManIOU. A game I watched out of curiosity.

    They did fuck all. The only player to make any effort, at all, was their managers favourite, Fuller. He came on with ten minutes to go.
    I’m sure their are some recordings of that game, somewhere. Though, the ginormous football brains & Stoke fans above seemesd to have missed out on that one.

  199. nah frank
    if we reduced all the prices and only made the corporate boxes more expensive the people who were willing to pay would still buy the boxes and it wouldnt matter if we filled them or not cos weve still got their cash
    and the rest of the stadium would be majority hardcore who would fucking sing…
    we may make less money but its a small price to pay for proper atmosphere
    its not like we dont make enough money anyway is it thru CL money tv sponsership etc
    if the club want more funds then culling the wage bill would be a good start and not exchanging proper supporters for customers…
    live by the sword die by the sword…

  200. Won’t be in second position with a great chance of winning the EPL though will we, Skythingy? Lot of booing too I would imagine.

  201. What did he say? Somebody read it and paraphrase will you? Please.

  202. ‘Remember who you are, what you are and who you represent’

  203. No frank, let’s just hike up ticket prices even higher and price out the ungrateful locals. Then we can have more of fans like yourself and those tourists you talk about. That should give us the kind of support you crave, right? 😉

  204. Skywatchingmug

    My point Frank is what ever happens it will still be The Arsenal.
    We will deal with it as we have always done. With pride and dignity.

  205. I got a bit excited when I strolled through the door and found Marky Mark had posted. Surely not the keyboard player extraordinaire, gracing us with his presence. Sadly I was right, it wasn’t him. Hey ho.

    No MarkyM – I can’t call you M&M, I like them too much (sorry, nothing personal) – but it isn’t over. A win for us next week and a draw for them, we’re back to where we were last week. Deep down, you’ve surrendered, that’s your choice. I won’t until we can’t win. That’s my choice.


  206. JJ maybe that would help but I sure hope we can get this thing cracking for the remainig matches. We all need to be encouraged a bit, both supporters and players. I hope both perform at their best for the rest of the season.

    There is still a few matches to be played and a lot to play for.

  207. Sky

    >With pride and dignity

    Not much evidence of that recently.


  208. absolutely Yogi, we dont give up until its over and from how I see things thats the best choice an Arsenal supporter can make.

  209. Well, unfortunately for you Henristic, many locals go to games because the club gave them season tickets.

    That’s real locals, as the ‘realists’ would say. Not someone on the internet.
    Or someone from Colchester. (Sorry MD).

    Nice try. Try again.

  210. Skywatchingmug

    You can say that again YW.

  211. I would have no problem with club level tickets going up, and the rest down.
    Many have expressed such thoughts.
    Football will go two ways in the UK I think. Like US sports, totally overpriced (is that correct?), or as mentioned in the past, there’ll be a little deflation and it’ll follow the Bundesliga model. We hope.

  212. could > will

  213. i agree with that yw
    the team has had none last few weeks…

    paul..thats fiar enough i dont dispute that but these are problems that have been laying deep in arsenal for a few years and every year it gets worse and worse..
    it needs fixing in my opinion…
    the summer would be the obvious time to start the ball rolling with it, but theres no harm in talking about it now is there…
    seeing as though the fans debate rages heavily most days…

  214. You might just be onto something there, Henristic. btw I am a local.

  215. I do think influence of the support thing is seriosly overemphasized, usually by folks looking for something to blame other than the team. We are an awesome team so if we’re playing badly, its got to be something else that’s the problem.

    I was happy with how wenger dealth with the question about support. Instead of taking the bait he decided to focus on where the problem lies.
    Now it doesn’t mean that I think atmosphere is totally useless. It would be nice to have the sort of noise we hear about at Anfield, but the fact that given how the season has gone, there is a snow ball’s chance in hell that our homesupport will improve. Its just not going to happen. Infact if the perfomances doesn’t improve, it will only get worse. Same thing for next season. The ONLY people in the world who can do ANYTHING about it are Wenger and the players themselves.

  216. It’s hackneyed comedy hour…


    >With pride and dignity

    Not much evidence of that recently.


  217. JonJon, we are 2nd in the PL with 8 matches left. If we win the PL (I know you dont believe we will) then many who say we need all these changes will change their tune.

    We dont need more players/changer to me, more than anything else we need to keep these players together, they will grow.

    Its kind of a shame that a bad patch means the team isnt good enough. Thats strange to me because all teams hit bad patches.

  218. But you’re a rich local eh, Frank? You seem quite happy with ticket price increases.

  219. JJ

    >i agree with that yw
    >the team has had none last few weeks…

    Actually the team has acted with tremendous dignity. Defeat in important games has not been met with the same dignity by sections of the support. Some of them have been on the receiving end of some vile abuse. Did they react? No, they did not. Do they wonder what sort of supporters the club has? I am sure they all do, not just the ‘abusee’.

    I know one for certain. Arsenal supporters demand that the players give the club their loyalty, their respect, every ounce of effort, never shirk any hard work, stretch every sinew in pursuit of glory. And what do they get by way of support. Abuse.

    And people wonder why footballers don’t want to engage with supporters.



  220. Frank

    “The whining whinging bastards”
    — you have to explain this to me. I always thought “whinging” was the crazy brit way of spelling whining. now my theory is in shambles.. please help me out

  221. Skywatchingmug

    I was talking about the fans when I said pride and dignity.
    All the bitching reminds me of them lot up the road.

  222. YW,
    Going by their tweets, I’d say the players have no problems engaging with supporters.

  223. NJG

    ‘Whinging bastards’ – pretty much you’ve got in right. The sort of people that come the revolution that you’d put the fuckers against wall for the firing squad and they’d moan about not being first in that one as well.


  224. I don’t understand the talk of tourists at the grounds. My understanding of the way tickets are allocated make in nigh impossible just to show up on matchday and purchase a ticket.

    I was one of those tourists a year and a day ago and I was extremely lucky to be able to get tickets to attend. I borrowed two season ticket books from a friend of my fathers, and took my job as a “tourist” supporter very seriously. I sang my little heart out after using the internet to make sure I knew all of the major songs I would hear at the ground. And then I went absolutely bloody mental, as you would all say, when Nick headed in in the 94th minute. I thought as a lowly tourist, I made a good case for myself and other tourists. Some gooners took me under their wing in the pub afterwards and were very excited by the fact that an american tourists primary motivation for coming to london/europe was to see the arsenal.

  225. Nasir Jones-Nasri

    My goodness you are simple, Bill. We already know you’re a military guy who hates Wengerball and loves the defensive side of the game but my lord. Will you finally admit you’re not Arsenal already, Bill? From what I’ve gathered you’re against everything Arsenal stands for.

  226. and i can say without a doubt that that was the best day of my life.

  227. paul
    if we win the league..and thats now a big if…nobody who feels strongly about this issue will change their tune….
    the atmosphere has been a major issue for years even if we win the league people still wont be able to afford to go so it wont change anything..
    new supporters and success come hand in hand while we are not winning the stadium will sell out but thousands wont turn up cos these observers are not hardcore, they dont turn up in wind, hail, sleet and snow to watch like the rest of us have done thru the bad times and the good…they turn up when we are winning…they can afford to and thats the people the baord want cos they are loaded but they are killing the passion in the ground…
    just look at the stadium already..the figures say its sold out but thousands of seats are empty….its happening and its getting worse and worse…they turn up when they want while the hardcore are forced to watch it down the pub…
    i know you dont live this side of the pond and i know you wont beleive me but trust me its a massive issue…and people whove been going for years who now cant go are pissed off when they see the empty seats…
    theyve been forced out of the club after years of loyalty and replaced by plastics for the sake of a few more quid in the clubs coffers
    and then ppl moan our home support is shit…
    of course it is but thats what the club has done to itself….

    and we do need to keep the core of the squad together but the ones on the periphery who cost mega bucks on the wage bill who arent good enough need to go…

  228. yw
    ive been to more than my fair share of games home and away and in the main the fans can cheer appluad and sing for the players all game but some of them will not and never have come to us to applaud us and its a regular thing
    it was even brought up in a agm a while back and the club accepted it was the case and said it would be changed
    guess what
    no change
    support respect and player respect is a two way street…

  229. I agree with YW and Frank.

    Has duke come up with a solution on how to change things NOW?

    And how did AIC get away with our traditional “fuck off” to him?

    Who else feels like he’s been cheated by Arsene and the board?

  230. I do think some of the reactions to our current form is laughabale, although very predictable. Some people are just prone to overdramatizing events but thankfully most of those kind of people gravitate towards places like legrove more than here. I normally like to read the comments there from time to time but have stayed away recently because you just know there’ll be so much gloating, gnashing of teeth and wailing that will compelety drown out the few sensible voices there. I like the fact that one gets better perspective here, even if one does get the other extreme sometimes (I’m looking at you ChrisGoona)

  231. Skywatchingmug

    NJGooner next time you need tickets go onto Arsenal.com and book through the sponsors link at the bottom of every page.

  232. ateeb
    why dont you buy a ticket then and go…seeing as though your the best…
    you like telling everyone to fuck off or support.. so go and sing your heart out mate…
    theres loads of people i know who are not renewing our renting their tickets out..so take one…

  233. There you Frank, edited comment of JonJon. Good luck replying.

    No. If we reduced all the prices and only made the corporate boxes more expensive the people who were willing to pay would still buy the boxes and it wouldn’t matter if we filled them or not. Because we still have their cash and the rest of the stadium would be majority hardcore(?) who would fucking sing.

    We would make less money but its a small price to pay for proper atmosphere. Its not like we don’t make enough money anyway. Through CL, T.V sponsorships e.t.c. If the club want more funds then cutting the wage bill would be a good start and not exchanging proper supporters for customers.

    …live by the sword die by the sword….”

    I tried my best to keep the author’s words intact, however there were instances where I just couldn’t help but intervene. Basic editing or else it would take days to edit it properly.

  234. NJN:

    Pimp slapped the Red Sox big time. Exciting times here in Texas. The playoffs last year and the games this weekend are the first time in all the years that I have been going to Rangers ballpark that the home fans actually out numbered the visiting Yankee and Red Sox fans.

    Yanks off to a good start also. Texieria has always been a slow starter so good to see him get out of the gates quickly.

  235. JonJon,

    Wtf JJ? I didn’t even talk to you today.

    Or was that a response to my last question? Being cheated by the board and all?

    Anyways. So you’re telling me if I buy the tickets, I have every right to boo the team, ask for Arsene’s head, curse our own players, masturbate over others from different clubs, e.t.c?

  236. O yea of little faith.

  237. im severly hurt ateeb..
    you got me good with that one..

  238. O ye of little faith.

  239. Henristic – They don’t respond to many supporters in a ‘conversational’ way.

    BTW, there’s a live blog at http://realsocialdad.blogspot.com/ right now. Pop by for a chat.

  240. “Ateeb,

    I am severely hurt. You got me good, with that one. Lol. ”

    You’re giving us shit content in every comment of yours. The least you can do for us, is to package it nicely, with good sentence structure which might make it a bit bearable to read. That’s all I ask.

  241. Henristic:

    If players are put off by tepid support when they play badly then they probably should not be at a big club like Arsenal, ManU, Barca, Chelsea etc etc. Sounds harsh but what is happening right now is the same thing that would happen at any park in any big club in the world. Hope the team can win this year and break the cycle.

  242. no ateeb
    im not saying that at all…
    where have i said that…

    i havent mention booing once, i dont masturbate over other clubs, its you who keeps comparing us to chelsea and city, i dont call for arsenes head and i dont curse our players…i want them sold but i dont call them names

    my gripe has been with the lack of passion in the club and the lowering of ticket prices
    so where have you got your ideas from??/

    i just suggesting you should take the offer to attend the emirates regular..
    theres plenty of opportunity…so go…seeing as though you bang on about support that much..go improve it…

  243. JJ

    Not sure why anyone gets upset at lack of acknowledgement – it’s a cultural thing. Players learn these things and then adjust. Then they go onto Twitter, get shit loads of grief and decide to withdraw. The downside of having lots of players on Twitter is that they all see the tossers who do this and think that they represent a fair section of supporters.

    ‘You’ want respect. It has to be earned.


  244. ateeb
    im dyslexic….and i left shcool at 15 so i havent had the same education as you possibly…
    not that i need to explain myself i dont give a toss how i structure my shit i just give a toss about arsenal…
    blasting me for my spelling just shows what type of person you are..
    im here to chat football and arsenal not anything else
    i dont insult you for being a self righteous biggotted snivelling little turd so dont insult me for my structure or apparent lack of…
    its football mate not university…

  245. yw
    respect is indeed earned
    but its still a two way street

    blaming it on culture is weak in my opinion…
    footballs universal language…it dont take a rocket scientist to appreciate the fans whove travelled thousands of miles to be there for you..win lose or draw pissing off down the tunnel is blatent lack of respect..

    can be defended by culture or twitter…

  246. Lack of passion. Is a load of bullshit, being tossed around about our club.

  247. JonJon, if the team wins the PL that would invalidate much of what is being said, thus one must sing a different tune!

  248. meanwhile in japan….

  249. paul
    no it wouldnt
    the stadium would be fuller yes cos we were winning but the hardcore would still be sat in the pub so nothing changes..
    as soon as the results dry up again its back to sqaure one…

  250. No, wasn’t blasting your sentence structure. Just that you need to package your crap a little better. It’s not the crappy sentence structure I’m interested in, but rather the origins of your dumb and simple views about our club.

  251. JJ, well whats the point. Might as well just do the best we can do right now, dont join in with the glory hunters, if we speak like them they will feel we are one of them.

  252. dont backtrack…
    and my veiws are only dumb to you cos you dont have a clue what your talking about..i confuse you…and you dont like it cos youve got nothing to say on the matter…other than im dumb…

    why dont you get a season ticket ateeb???

  253. You’re starting to sound more like AIC.

    I live on a different continent. It would sound absurd, irrational to travel thousands of miles to watch a match every weekend. Although I’d love to of course.

  254. Word
    i don’t want that kid on my team he doesn’t pass the ball haha.

  255. well there you have it ateeb
    when it comes to the crunch as far as ticket prices go and lack of passion in the ground you dont have a clue what your talking about cos youve never experienced it…

    so u cant tell people to fuck off or support like you were doing last night and you cant ask who feels like theyve been cheated by the baord like you did tonight like some sort of arsenal club guardian

    you dont know a thing so dont pretend to…

    i would never judge you for being an overseas fan…
    so what gives you the right to give everyone the high moral hard one about their opinions on the clubs in house problems when theyve expereinced it first hand and you live 4 million miles in the other direction???

  256. but im not sounding like a glory hunter paul..
    if anything i want the glory hunters to fuck off, but thats upto the club isnt it??
    when ppl say they want their club back they are ridiculed but they mean it..
    they havent given the club years of support to be told their support isnt good enough anymore cos they aint rich enough and then sit and look at empty seats on the telly..
    they want their club back..and they have a fucking good point…

  257. JonJon…

    I think that your views are dumb because they don’t make any kind of sense, they are mostly incoherent and dribbly repeat of the most silly of internet canards. And it has nothing to do with Dyslexia or not having gone to a University so stop trying to make out that you’re being condescended to for the way you write… the real issue is the CONTENT of your posts not their style. For instance your belief that Wenger won’t last six years at club of our size elsewhere.. when the size of the club is mostly down to Wenger’s astute management in the first place! You don’t need a university education to see the rank stupidity of that particular idea but because it is the unchallenged idea that dominates places like Highbury House and Le Grove you basically believe it… That particular idea is basically stupid whether you write in text style, in patois, sing it in a song or deliver it in Cockney rhyme or even say it in French.

    Your basic reasoning sucks and that is down to you and you alone because as I’m sure that others can testify, some of the most insightful things I have been told in my life have been by people who have what some might call the most basic education. Going to a University doesn’t make anyone wiser or even more tolerant or a better human being but neither does not going to University mean that you’re the so-called salt-of-the-Earth. We are all what we are and you strike me as a particularly ungrateful, shallow and unoriginal individual incapable of any thought worth bothering with…

    The main issues at stake here have nothing to do with education at all… basic human empathy is what is at question here. The basic ability to see the humanity in another person, the basic understanding that people can do their very, very best and still fall short because of factors beyond their control. The basic intelligence to judge people fairly in the knowledge that all of us would want to be judged fairly in our turn… NONE OF THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH DYSLEXIA OR NOT HAVING SEEN THE INSIDE OF A UNIVERSITY. So please try and stick to the issues and leave all that feeling sorry for yourself outside the forum.

    Having said all that it may well be that you are a truly wise man with an insight that escapes me… because, as they say, anything is possible.

  258. on a different note frimpong is set to make his comeback in the reserves…

  259. @Sky & NJGooner, or you could do what I did two seasons back for the Man City match (2-0, wonderful game). Buy red memberships for everyone in your traveling crew and get up at 3 am on the on sale date to purchase the tickets on arsenal.com. Seriously, the club ought to make it much, much easier for the non-supporting season ticket holders who don’t have it in them to show up or provide actual support to transfer their tickets to someone who would — could all be done very easily with an electronic ticket exchange, but the existing system on arsenal.com but it is instead incredibly cumbersome.

    On another note, has anyone heard any of the people calling for Wenger’s head offer an even mildly intriguing alternative for the manager position? The idea of replacing him is so absurd, and the available candidates are so obviously inferior (Owen Coyle, really?), that no one can even bother to put forward names. It’s insane.

    I watched Saturday’s match over breakfast in a pub in Seattle with my family, along with a couple of other die-hard supporters. We were all as distraught as anyone, but found the idea of booing the team off the pitch appalling — Nasri played most of the match looking like a conehead with a tennis ball sized lump on his head, ffs, and still managed to shimmy through the entire Blackburn midfield and defense. I fail to see how the club suffers from having supporters like us in every corner of the globe who won’t miss a match, and who every year review the fixture list trying to figure out how to make a pilgrimage to see the team play in person work out.

    We may or may not win the league this year — and probably won’t — but I’m certainly looking forward to watching these last eight games. Whatever happens, there has been an awful lot to appreciate this season — Theo’s hat trick v. Blackpool, Nasri’s brilliance the first half of the season, the emergence of Jack Wilshire as a star, Chamakh’s great start to his Arsenal career, Kos & JD, Chesney staking a claim for the gk position for the next decade or two, the win over Barca, RVP’s return and scoring streak, etc., etc. Hopefully there will be even more to appreciate over these next couple months, and I’m sure there will be in the seasons to come. Only an incredibly fickle, spoiled or naive person would choose to overlook all of the great moments Wenger and the team have provided, both this year and in years past, and to ignore how well off this club is compared to all but a couple in the world, to suggest ditching Wenger and making wholesale changes at a point when the team is the youngest in the world, is an inch or two or a call or two here or there from greatness, and is on the verge of what should be, with a few tweaks, a tremendous run over the next several years.

  260. UnbiasedTobias

    I swear this feels like on of them american football movies. U get a shitty team with a nutty manager bt there’s always that feeling that they gonna win sumthing. I dunno wether its gonna be from serious transfer activity or
    A mean-ass team talk. Bt wenger doesn’t like mean-ass team talks for fear of hurting his kids. it worked against liverpool last season… So y not just do it now. Rustle their feathers and let them no what being a gooner means.
    Next season we can go out and by sum quality players for example de rossi and mexes, hopefully hulk. What dyo guys think of those 3 signings… There great players de rossi and mexes r both experienced leaders. They’ll cost us but most times big signings work. Drogba, Torres(liverpool), Berbatov(eventually)

  261. joshua
    i stopped reading your posts cos i fall asleep before i get past the second sentance on most of them..
    you dont know shit your another one who disrespects yogis rules and goes on some verbal abusive, vain, pompus, oxford dictionary filled ,self rightoeus attempt to gain credit in a department you know nothing about…
    your just a plum…cant be arsed with you anymore…

  262. Joshua, that was a very astute response to Jon Jon, it’s not suprising that he’s tried to change the topic.

  263. Skywatchingmug

    GoonerinLA good advice, but I’ve got two season tickets so I’ve never had a problem when I’m back home.

  264. There is a lot that can happen between now and when we play the Mancs at home. We could be in ideal position to put a ton of pressure on them come the last few games of the season. So many people are so willing to give up on this team when there are still 8 games left to go.

    I still can’t understand the lack of fight and desire many fans have. It is the height of hypocracy to criticize the team for their attitude when some fans’ attitudes are far, far worse. I would not want a lot of these people on my side in any type of situation that required some fighting spirit. Push the team forward and support. We will see where the cards fall in the end.

  265. cahill/hummels
    and any striker whos greedy, likes to finish and is good at it and not pass it in case his team mate might be in a better position after another 20 passes……hulk..dunno..prefer his mate falcao

  266. …”they havent given the club years of support to be told their support isnt good enough anymore cos they aint rich enough and then sit and look at empty seats on the telly..
    they want their club back..and they have a fucking good point…”

    There you go. Unoriginal, incoherent and shallow rubbish. Yesterday you were on here telling us that a club of our size shouldn’t let Wenger mismanage it and now you’re up in arms because of the overpricing of tickets is disenfranchising our poorer fans! What do you actually want JonJon? A big club with big stars on big salaries with a stadium to match or a small club who charge pennies and plays in the conference so that everyone can watch?
    How do you expect the club to pay for the stadium, jonJon? How are we supposed to keep Nasri and attract the other players that moaners of your ilk demand day in and day out? With peanuts? Or may be we should hand the club over to someone like Usmanov so that “they” can truly get their club back!

    The most revealing comment in your post is the idea that some fans want their club back… forget the nasty undertone of a club being taken away by people to whom it doesn’t belong… what makes you think that the club belongs to only a certain subset of fans? What particular claim do these people you speak for have over those who believe in what the club is doing right now… JonJon please tell us. What gives these people you speak about any more sense of entitlement than anyone else … and above all else, who exactly has taken ‘their’ club away and where have they taken it?

    I called your post dumb, shallow and most unoriginal previously but forget to add that they quite often carry a most troubling and nasty whiff. I will say no more than that.

  267. champion

    i read your comment to me the other day blaming me for verbal crap and then in the same sentance saying the players deserved booing…wtf?? haha

    not even the venomous nasty jonjon would boo a player..

    go on champion tell your mate joshua you agreed with the boo’s..

    your one of the plastics mate…

  268. JonJon, support the team we have now and lets see, nothing else will help now. The Draw on Saturday did not warrent (to me) much of what you said, It was over the top. The team can get back on track, they have not imploded at all, the teams just needs to get a little break.

  269. JJ

    But it isn’t weak as a lot of countries do not require player acknowledgement at the end of a match. Plus 20 – 30 years ago, few of the miserable sods came and acknowledged the terraces at an away game.


  270. UnbiasedTobias

    Jonjon. I lyk Falcao to, but u can’t argue wit hulk’s strength. He also likes to bang it from range wen he gets the chance. Plus wen we played porto a few seasons ago he was quality. For me he just represents all that we need up there, he’s lyk another carlos tevez.
    Bt yeah ure sooo right we need a selfish stryka who justs is addicted to goals.

  271. UnbiasedTobias, any team in our position has done most things right so your analogy is a big fail. Just go and support another team if you think we are a crap team, stop subjecting yourself to such abuse. You, know like being in 2nd place, remaining in the top 4 and playing in the CL yearly, you should become a spud and you are good.

  272. Actually I do understand why there was booing at the end. I had been at the clock end where many like myself had been cheering on the team from start to finish, but I have to say that the team performance was suprisingly poor considering how vital the points were.

    Jon Jon you put down the team and manager at every opportunity online but you are saying that you are too gutless you actually voice your negative opinion if and when you had the chance?

  273. blah blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz….

    difference between me and you joshua/jacob/jason is that id follow this club into the conferrence if thats where they played…
    and certain players at the club are not big stars…yet they are on big salaries…
    utds biggest earners are on 250k a week…
    and our wage bill is level to theirs even though we dont pay any of our players over 100k…explain that one smart arse….
    our squad is filled with talented players but its also filled with over paid average performers who if we got rid of and replaced with the acadmey lads we wouldnt be worrying about season ticket prices would we…

    ppl say we shouldnt spend money cos we will do a leeds or a pompey but we are doing that anyway with the ridiuclous wages we are giving some of these players…but you wont understand that will you…leeds paid players like sth johnson 50k a week for being a nobody and it backfired and bite them on the arse…abit like some of our players are doing now only the fans are expected to pay for it every year..(price increase anyone) but again you wont understand that..
    probably start talking about paradigms and trapeziums and black hole dimensions

    you chat crap…so i wont read your response…

  274. UnbiasedTobias

    Paul n.
    I don’t think we’re crap. Its just all abit comical at moment. I love arsenal and I’m a proud supporter and I said at the beginning of the season that I’d settle for second. But u have to agree that if we just played that little bit better we’d be so far ahead of united now. Please dont put me in that box.
    And the abuse is not needed. Chill out.

  275. 20 years ago yogi they werent paid silly amounts a week…
    and cultures not important they play in england for an english team they should realise how important it is to keep the player/fan connection…
    once they lose that you only get it back working hard on the pitch and if you dont do that either then more fool you for using twitter to connect with the fans youve spent the last few year taking the piss out of…

  276. JonJon | April 4, 2011 at 10:39 pm |

    I hope you don’t blame this crap post on Dyslexia again.

  277. Oh I see! not sure that was funny but I you.


  278. champion
    nope your wrong ive not put AW down once in all this…and ive said all season we will win the league..ask yogi…
    i just want to know where the passion in the arsenal has gone..

    rather than have a pop at me i think you should be questioning yourself for being a booer to be honest

    dont make up stuff about me to turn the attention away from yourself..shame on you

  279. but I get you…

  280. see champion this is where ppl like you and joshua either jump the gun or are just thick

    frank and atteeb made a poor arse attempt of mocking my style…

    then when it backfired ateeb backtracked and made up aload of shit…
    then did joshua now you

    i suggest you go back and read the comments carefully before you make a more a donut out of yourself than you already have for being a booer

    a booer and an affliction mocker…tut tut tut…

    we dont need fans like you mate…

  281. Theo, Song and Cesc will be making their way back into the side. When they start ticking again, hopefully next week, the negative comments will dry up and the fools will have to retreat. Watch.

  282. to be honest tobais i dont know anything about hulk other than he is powerfull…so il agree with you there

  283. UnbiasedTobias

    Paul, telling a true gooner to support another team is abuse lol!!!

  284. Actually if I was one of the many that booed I would have no problem saying so. I wasn’t though so I have nothing to be ashamed of.

  285. Never really got the fuss about Frimpong until the Youth League Final vs ManU last year. He absolutely ran the show. Not sure his passing is all that spectacular but his tackling is immaculate (most of the time!). He came through with JW and partnered him in midfield – they must have complemented each other. And it’s great for the reserves that he’s back because all the other holding mids have either been out on loan or injured in recent weeks. That injury was such a shame, but he’s still only just turned 19, so there’s plenty of time for him. Surely not this season though.

  286. Actually JJ, we do pay over £100k a week for two players that I know of. And a third is going over that this summer. All that the wage bill emphasizes is that United’s pay differential is wider than Arsenal’s.

    You are absolutely correct about filling the squad with Academy lads. ST prices would fall as the club would probably be in League 1 with that policy and there would still be a whole lot of moaning going on.

    We’re not going the way of Leeds and Pompey, it’s a spurious argument whenever it’s raised but nor can we spend £80m. It’s about commonsense, not putting the club’s future at risk by overstretching or underbuying. It’s easy to be wise after the event but no-one who wanted Wenger to spend cash before the end of the summer foresaw the team even being 2nd now, no matter what they may claim. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.


  287. Our wage Bill is the same as united’s? You haven’t got a clue have you? And you think that our situation is similar to Leeds united under Risdale? JonJon I’ve misunderstood all along you’re just a clown.

    The rest of your waffle is your usual classic misdirection… we all know that you are the best fan ever, ever ,ever… so just answer the questions…

    1 Who has taken the club away from the fans and where have they taken it?
    2. What gives the people you claim to speak for special ownership of the club?

    And considering that you are the genius who informed us that Jack Wilshere is not a Gooner… presumably you consider Ashley Cole a Gooner then?

    You write rubbish. Empty headed, loud mouth, semi-literate, ungrateful and downright witless garbage. The idea that someone as clueless as you is in a position to say who is and who isn’t a gooner is a testament to just how delusional you are…

  288. “…complemented each other perfectly…”

  289. JJ

    In the early 80s average footballers earned over £1k p/wk, an awful lot earned more. The average wage then was nowhere near that. Since the late 70s, footballers have always been paid stupid money compared to the average man. It’s just got even more stupid.


  290. to be honest tobias, pauls a decent guy…
    hes easy to talk to and you listen to what he says…he doest talk bollox and make a fool out of himself…hes got more class…

    but i agree the go support spuds or whoever things abit patronising…
    its worse than being called a cunt lol

  291. ManU’s wage bill is 20 million higher than ours according to the June 2010 article I read.

  292. Nah jon jon, Frank, Ateeb, Joshua (and who ever else) have probably realised that trying to have a proper conversation with you is a slow descent into madness

  293. UnbiasedTobias

    Yeh jonjon. I get that I’ve got no hard feelings towards him, and I admit my analogy sounded a bit better in my head ;-).

  294. i agree yogi the money is killing the game
    and the arsenal for all their revolutionary ideas and visions are worse than most when it comes to the pennies and it would be a a bit better to make the arsenal the arsenal again..

    i reckon the lansburys would sell more shirts than denilsons so i dont agree with your view of prices going down if a few of the acadmey lads come in…although i do agreee its about commonsence and not spending 80mil…we dont need to spend that but we do need to cut the wage bill….

    and if we did go into the lower leagues it wouldnt matter to me id still be a gooner, unlike most of the pricks that are in the stadium at the minute…

  295. “Arsenal supporters demand that the players give the club their loyalty, their respect, every ounce of effort, never shirk any hard work, stretch every sinew in pursuit of glory. And what do they get by way of support. Abuse.”

    POTD Yogi! But the irony is lost on the worst proponents of it!

  296. rather be a mad gooner than a booing one chumpion…
    notice how none of them attack you for saying that but i get attacked for asking for lower ticket prices..
    people just have a personal vendetta against me cos i school them time and time again
    abit like ive just schooled you…
    so they go all out to get one over on me even if they make themselves look like dicks in the process
    just like you did earlier..
    no doubt you’ll come at me again in the future…but you’ll need to catch me on an off day mate.. 😉

  297. I have long been in the camp that called for patience and support of our players. I still call for the latter, but feel it must be tempered with a candid critique of current performances. As for the former, I am losing patience quickly because the team do not possess the heart and winning attitude of a Manchester United.

    As someone pointed out, we are knee-deep in a very winnable title race with a run-in of games that is nothing short of kind; we were a man up against a team who had no away points all season and is in free-fall in the league table, yet we couldn’t muster the passion to do anything better than draw. Meanwhile, our opponents in the title race, granted playing against relegation fodder just like ourselves, go two goals down and show the resiliency, self-belief, and passion to pull the goals back and go on to a 2-goal victory. (Why can we not grind out results when they matter most…?)

    There isn’t much positive that can be said in the face of such reality. The three draws against mediocre (at best) competition at the business end of the season is further evidence of a team showing itself to be just as mentally frail as it is physically.

    Only one of the three “great Satans” of the club was even on the pitch in Saturday’s match. I know the maniacal haters of Diaby and Denilson will probably still find a way to blame them for their teammates’ impotence on Saturday but the desperation of such idiots is a vague irrelevancy in the face of the other players’ lack of mental fortitude.

    Though the glory of a first Prem title in years is still very possible, the team is as flat as a board mentally. Criticism of Wenger for not being able to turn team morale around is only minimally justified in my book. Recent disappointments notwithstanding, a bunch of very talented and very well paid professionals should not need to be picked up off the ground and fanned like fainted women and kick-started back to high energy and passion when the premiership title is at their fingertips…? If Wenger’s at fault it’s for such unwavering support in a group of players that so completely looses it’s self-belief after set-backs.

    All I know is I still have nightmares of that idiotic pseudo-clearance by Kosielny that led to the Birmingham winner.

    In truth, I guess I should be more forgiving of our players because that horrible moment in the CC final has apparently broken my spirit for this season too…

    When’s the summer transfer window open again…?

  298. Jon Jon, at your school the pass mark is clearly a ‘D’ = Dunce.
    I don’t think anyone on here was having a pop at you for wanting lower prices. You have a serious victim mentality.

  299. UnbiasedTobias

    I reckon that finishing second will do arsenal a world of good this year, and in retrospect the seasons had sum really high points.
    If we stay in second this year, we’ve dun better than chelsea and City and that’s great. Chelsea have been a bogey team for us and beating them at the emirates and in the league is fantastic. A good break and some alone time for the players to clear their heads, do a bit of work in the gym and just chill out is gonna allow us to be better the next season. We have the quality and with a few a additions to the squad to give the fans a boost and changing room a lift. We will be unstoppable next year.
    In my eyes this was a serious learning experience.
    Gunners till I die.

  300. of course i have, booer…
    nice hole youve dug yourself there…il leave you too it..

    good comment tobias..

  301. Doesn’t the wage bill encompass all those employed by the club, ie. players, staff, groundsmen?

  302. it does at every club colney

  303. Jon Jon you have taken quite a bit of internet abuse today eh?

  304. chin up friend

  305. Might have been posted a billion times, but:

  306. Mentalist – that is a top video, thanks for the post!

  307. Borges Spinelli

    In battle did two knights meet; one named Nadir, the other called Zenith. Opponents they were, both as brave as the other. But on this day there had to be a victor. The don in armor, a crusading knight under the command of Vulcan, whose superiority inevitably brought forth his acclaim.

    Wow! Joshua (at 9:56 pm) wielded the proverbial axe on JonJon’s head, and decapitated it with a mighty swing. Xcalibur meets Murder She Wrote stylee.

    The end.

  308. lol william i get it all the time on here but it dont bother me..

  309. Bradys right foot

    Whats wrong with Arsenal I hear some cry, the answer is quite simple very fucking little. The reality is our club is incredibly successful but crucially trophyless. I wonder if the pain felt by the support is heightened by the fact we are teased each year by going tantalisingly close. Would the pain be we had blown the season early on and concentrated on getting fourth. Me like all gooners enjoy a touch of masichism. The past six weeks however have been hard to deal with but I don’t believe they’ve been easy for the players or staff. The results of the previous few weeks have hurt everyone. Time to draw breath and lets win every game and see where the season takes us.

  310. Borges Spinelli

    Trying to work out in my head which of these 3 positions Arshavin is most effective in: left flank; behind the striker; or on the right flank. Does anyone know?

  311. Season is over. It’s fact now.

  312. “lol william i get it all the time on here but it dont bother me..”
    says all anyone needs to know. A normal human being would be bothered. A normal human being wouldn’t come to Arsenal supporters blog to slag off manager and players and try to annoy everyone.
    You fucking wanker.

  313. Sound advice as usual. Seems destructive forces are abroad with designs to destabilize the side at a time when all is not decided. Those that emerge from the shadows cannot be real gooners if they seek Mr Wenger’s demise before the end of the season. Stand firm the faithful and we shall prevail!

  314. JJ,

    Deprived of time to read all responses or to dwell too long. However, even the pundit commentating on the match noted how the fans (lets call them the ‘home support’, for purpose of irony) were putting undue pressure on the team. My season ticket is a remnant now because I simply cannot tolerate the influx of consumerist fans post Highbury. It sickens me and I will support without their shared presence in the future.

    I am not saying it is all down to the fans but I think a massive part of this season’s downturn can be found to have a strong link with that.

    There’s still hope and even if we do not win coming second is no disgrace in this league. FFS.

  315. A big disapointment on Saturday. After Manure’s result we really needed to pull a win out of the bag, but failed to do so. We didn’t really seem “up for it” which was quite strange.

    Not a good reaction from the crowd at full time with the booing though. That is not going to help anything. It was pretty loud as well.

  316. at the start of the game and at the restart, we looked very likely to score. maybe the fact we didn’t started fucking our team mentally, along with the seed of doubt planted by the crowd

  317. Aww comon guys lay off JJ. He is here everyday fighting the good fight. Yes sometimes he is a little glass half empty but hey, what r you gonna do.

    At least he doesnt try to turn us to the dark side like others. Maybe the grey side.

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