Capello’s “Yea Gods” Moment & Final Chelsea Thoughts

International fortnights are painful at the best of times; following a defeat they are even worse with the chance to rectify problems on the training ground banished to the four winds as the squad traverses the globe. For Jack Wilshere, his performances have been recognised and a return to the full England squad completely merited.

That said, he might have been totally miffed had he not been called up for if Kevin Davies can get an international call-up, the barrel is being well and truly scraped. In fact, we went through the bottom when Capello tried to get Emile Heskey to reverse his decision to retire from international football. I didn’t realise that he had done so in the summer for he gone missing in so many England performances since that night in Munich, I thought he had gone a long time ago. Lest anyone be in any doubt, I am mightily unimpressed that the most booked player in Premier League history is in the England squad. I am sure it could be worse but quite how escapes me at the moment.

Which means the navel gazing is left to us. The squad are hurting after the defeat, disappointment tangible. Which is a good thing. Andrey Arshavin was, as you would expect, the most direct in his thoughts,

arshavin.eu: What did Arsenal need in order to win or at least not to lose?
AA: Goals. Two, at least.

It’s a theme he had touched on early, noting that ‘the one who scores more, wins the game‘; a philosophy which is hard to argue with. Some arguments have been put forward – prinicpally in The Guardian – that lessons have not been learned from past defeats. Too much emphasis is being placed on this somewhat spurious theory, ignoring the circumstances such as injuries and suspension, surrounding the matches that were chosen as examples. In fact, the relevance of defeats at Blackburn, for example, in the context of a defeat at Chelsea is glaringly ill-conceived, especially when victory has already been achieved at Ewood Park this season.

That Chelsea are a bête noir at the moment, reversing the position we had in the past, indicates that there is a hurdle to overcome. Previous seasons has seen them overpower Arsenal but that did not happen on Sunday, the defeat due to lax tracking of an overlapping run and a poorly constructed wall. Lessons to learn? Concentration; lapses are punished by good teams. Is this a lesson for the manager to learn? Yes but more responsibility falls onto the players.

Bacary Sagna re-emphasised Arshavin’s point about scoring,

We have to learn from this game and we have to score goals because we had the opportunities to do it.

There were opportunities to open the scoring before Chelsea did so, crucial in the context of the match. Koscielny will probably score the next ten headers in that situation, proving that it was a freakish occurrence. That does not change the outcome of Sunday though. Had few real opportunities been created, there would be real concern about the paucity of performance. Too much of the good work is being forgotten in the aftermath. Rightly so, mistakes are concentrated but the negatives must not be allowed to direct the future. In equal measure, keep doing the good things, eradicate the bad.

The gap to the top is seven points. As Chelsea has already proven in the last fortnight, winning your home games against the top six is going to be the order of the season. Anything away from is a bonus. Last season, an eleven point gap was overhauled. It can be done again, especially at this early stage of the season. Belief is all.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on October 5, 2010, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 294 Comments.

  1. Need to apologize for my rant yest, YW. And for uploading articles you had written earlier. I was misled by the devil.

  2. ole… i think mourinho will be given a bit of lee way there after their recent years, they want a trophy first and pretty football second.

    shame more people at arsenal dont have that ambition

  3. Something you haven’t touched on is the squad. I think this season more than ever the squad will come into play. I think only ManCity have a deep squad. Chelseas bench on Sunday was quite a shame. From the days of making a sub of Crespo and Robben to now Zhirkov and Stuterige. I think Chelseas bench is the weakest ever, while we are the strongest ever.

    What I don’t like is to hear from Sagna that lessons have been learned. Because I am of the opinion that i have heard that before – from last season. I feel like they should just shut up, and put a winning run together.

  4. Why don’t you go out and buy one from a cobblers, Arsenal Tom?

    Mourinho will be kicked out of Madrid within three years. Trophies or no trophies. The Madridistas, the purists, are already getting restless and have been voicing their discontent at the home games.

    Same reason he wouldn’t last here. We, the faithful, have come to expect something else – something more.

    I reckon Ancelotti’s Chelsea will be found out as the flat-track bullies that they are before the end of the season, and Abramovich will step in and move him on – especially if they don’t win the Champions League; which will be very, very difficult for them with no real passing game to speak of.

  5. kabisa… i agree all we ever hear is “we’ll make up for this, or we’ve learned from that” when we clearly haven’t.

    if we’d learnt anything then our defenders wouldn’t be letting drogba get the wrong side of them running at the near post to flick it in like he did at the emirates last season.

  6. The truth is that we did not really look like scoring in the 2nd half, where Chelsea still looked dangerous. Fabianski did well to stop Essien 1 on 1, and that stupid little chav had a goal disallowed which was borderline offside. It could have easily have been given. Also Anelka missed an open goal.

    If people are claiming that things like the Vela scenario near the end was a 1 on 1 then they are clutching at straws. Essien’s and Anelka’s were 1 on 1’s. Vela’s was a “could have been”.

    We could argue we lost because we did not take out chances. Chelsea fans would argue that they did not absoultely hammer us because they did not take their’s. We did not really have anything you would call clear cut after the Kos header.

    We were beaten by a better team, who adopted tactics suited to playing us which worked. Our performance against them was better than previous seasons, but we still lost. Move on.

  7. limpar… “found out as flat track bullies?” really? they scored over 100 goals last season and have 23 from 7 games this year!

    stoke and blackburn are bullies, chelsea unfortunately are much more than that.

    our current style of football is lovely but without an end product and no trophies to show for it its ultimately pointless.

    id much rather we played like the invincibles or like the 07/08 team

  8. Limpar –

    “especially if they don’t win the Champions League; which will be very, very difficult for them with no real passing game to speak of.”

    A bit like Inter?

  9. For those who are not of Kenyan descent – in the last 100,000 years or since all humans are originally from Kenya anyway – what Arsenalkabisa is saying is that he was obsessed by spirits, which is not an uncommon claim down here. In the part of Kenya where I hail from it’s called “Juogi!”

  10. @GoonerAndy

    I agree that we should just drop the many IF scenarios and move on.

    What I dont agree with is that we were beaten by a better team. If you have played football, you must know that to be better than anyone you out play them. The only time you sit and defend is when your opposition is better. you get to play the lion and Hyena game. Hide-rush-nick-hide.

    But Will give Chealse plaudits that they had a plan, and they executed it well. We too had a plan, but for a lapse in concentration, we didn’t execute it too well. In that instance we have much to learn.

  11. @KG
    Eh? Juogi?

  12. AK – I do play football, and for me there is no doubt Chelsea are currently the better team. They are champions and beat us on a regular basis. They don’t play better football, but they are a better team.

  13. @ArsenalTom,

    We wount battle for third and fourth. We will challenge.

    We may even win it IF our squad injury situation improves.

  14. in my opinion 90% of the time better football is the football being played that wins the game.

    we need to be able to play shit and win or grind out 1-0’s, at the moment we cant even win when we’re palying well!

  15. kasbisa “IF our squad injury situation improves.” lol it wont though… it hasn’t over the past 4 years has it?… its the same players always getting injured…

    RVP
    Diaby
    Clichy
    Nik B
    Cesc is even in danger of going on there with all the hammy problems he’s been having

  16. @Goonerandy

    I think they are better at Playing to their strengths.

    I.e. Blackburn, Bolton, Sunderland etc also play to their strengths, but they are not better than us at playing to their strengths.

    Of note is that their strengths is very anti the beauty of football.

  17. Had a chance to watch replays of our last three matches, i.e. WBA, Partizan and Chelsea. I reckon we played best against Chelsea. As a football purist I can take that as I’d rather play beautiful football and finish fourth than win the league ugly. But to play beautiful football and win the league ; that would be beautiful.

  18. and we wont win the league unless wenger spends 30m+ in jan.

    sadly, id bet everything i own on that.

  19. If Chelsea come up against Real, Inter, Barcelona, or Arsenal in the knock-out stages then they will struggle.

  20. in fact i don’t think we’ll ever win the league again with wenger in charge.

    i wish i didn’t think this but i cant ever see him doing what’s necessary because it will be and admission of failure.

  21. @Limpar – 11.51:

    Do you really think Mourinho has any intention of being at Madrid in 3 years?
    He has always said he would leave for England besides the last 6 – 1 win placate his detractors.

  22. limpar… most teams would struggle against Real, Inter, Barca.

    if they get us they’ll do what they’ve done for the past 2 seasons… beat us

  23. hopefully mourinho will do the full 3 years… that’ll tie in nicely with the end of Wenger’s contract 😉

  24. The truth is that we did not really look like scoring in the 2nd half, where Chelsea still looked dangerous. Fabianski did well to stop Essien 1 on 1, and that stupid little chav had a goal disallowed which was borderline offside. It could have easily have been given. Also Anelka missed an open goal.

    I have to question what ‘look like scoring’ means to you.

  25. Arsenal Tom – I don’t think spending £30M in Jan would be the answer. We have an excellent group of players here, and one of the strongest squads in the lge. It is the system we play which leaves us exposed. It just needs slight alterations making.

  26. Ole – To me looks like scoring mean having a shot at goal. Maybe the keeper saves, maybe it hits the woodwork. That is what it means to me. Passing around the area without shooting does not really look like scoring.

    When Anelka went round Fabianski he looked like scoring.
    When Essiean was through 1 on 1 he looked like scoring.
    When the ball arrived at Kos’s bonce in the 1st half he looked like scoring.
    Vela nearly collecting a through ball 40 yards from goal is not really the same.

  27. andy… i think a top class GK and a solid CM/DM is whats needed. 30m would go someway to solving that. plus having a CM/DM would enable us to 4-2-3-1 when needed and make us much more solid

  28. If somebody had attacked Nasri’s excellent cross in the 2nd half, he would have looked like scoring. But nobody did.

  29. I can’t possibly understand the mentality of an Arsenal fan who doesn’t believe we can beat Chelsea with a full-strength squad.

  30. LOL! Kenyan Gunner – What? We’re now looking for spiritual excuses? Next Zim Paul will tell us Drogba uses Muti on Arsenal.

    Legend has it that the king of all “juogi’s” as you call them was better known as Apingo Nyawawa. I worked with a bunch of Kenyans from your neck of the woods (or the Lakeside as they’d call it) and I was indoctrinated to the legend of Gor ‘Kogalo. They seem to think that Gor Mahia is the Arsenal of the Kenyan Premier League – but I beg to differ.

    Whenever I’m around, I like attending the local games for the atmosphere….it’s quite crazy.

  31. Arsenal Tom – I can’t disagree with that. I don’t think we would even have to spend that much to be fair.

  32. Limpar – I always think we will win. Opposition and state of the squad does not matter to me before the game. I do think Cesc and RvP would have made a difference on Sunday.

  33. andy.. probably not mate, whats frustrating is that when wenger does spend he gets most signings right… if we got a vermaelen type for CM and same level player for GK we’d be real contenders.

    his reluctance to address weaknesses and spend is whats most frustrating though.

  34. Ole – To me looks like scoring mean having a shot at goal. Maybe the keeper saves, maybe it hits the woodwork. That is what it means to me. Passing around the area without shooting does not really look like scoring.

    Shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the game. Very much like Bill counting goals conceded so far to predict how many will be conceded or who will win the league.

    Getting behind the opposition and putting a player through on goal is a chance. In 80%, 90% of 1-on-1s the striker scores. Passing through the opposition in the final 3rd is a very very clear measure of dominance.

  35. i think it should be noted that arssenal are very good at forcing teams to play a certain way. we press the ball high up the pitch, give our opponents no time on the ball & hold a high line to compress the play in our opponents half. we force our opponents to play from deep & over the top…& if they aren’t organised at the back & disciplined in midfield they will be slaughtered.

    the sad thing is; chelsea want teams to play like that against them. they are organised throughout the team, very goood at defending from deep positions & have power and pace up front. the way you beat chelsea is to do what city or inter did…sit back, give up the ball. react to everything they do & when they over-commit: punish them.

    we force chelsea to play exactly how they want to play…and we lose every time. funny that.

  36. limpar…

    cech>al/fab
    cole>clichy
    terry>squid/kos
    alexsong
    mikel=diaby
    lampard=fab
    malouda>arsh
    drogba=RVP
    anelka>theo/nasri

    they have better/equal players in every department plus far more experience, strength, speed & power… it wouldn’t be easy for them but they are better team than us.

  37. So is Bobby Pires going to do a Sol Campbell in January?

    He’s clubless and training with Arsenal – and naturally, he’s impressing the hell out of London Colney.

  38. @Arsenal Tom.

    I think you suffer from Beniteizm. Its a disease that afflicts people, and they get an urge to buy mediocre players for large sums of money. It will get Liverpool relegated.

  39. sorry… missed these somehow

    alexsong

  40. kasbisa… what you on about!? where did i say buy an average player? do you not rate vermaelen then as he’s the only one i mentioned!

    if you really think pool will get relegated then you know less than nothing about football

  41. and benitez is inter’s manager now genius

  42. Sorry to say Gooner Andy, Arsenal ‘Tom’ and Kabisa, but you’re all on a gloom-fest whipping yourselves into hysteria and all of you are neither objective, nor factual.

    All this Chelsea are simply a better side is complete nonsense, we barely had a chance in the 2nd half, bullshit. Listen to yourselves. Let’s be objective, exactly the same match and had chamakh’s first diving goal attempt gone in and then Kos’s header, the same match would have produced superlatives and laxatives and lots of other ‘tives’.

    Chelsea’s late surge is nothing. We were attacking desperately and falling out of shape, it’s meaningless to even include the last 5-7 minutes.

    What I liked was seeing JET come on!

    Arsenal …

  43. zim… lol, you liked seeing a kid thrown in at the deep end when we were loosing 2 nil to the champions…

    your very easily pleased mate

  44. lampard=fab

    Are you having a laugh?

    Lampard couldn’t polish Fabs boots even if he wanted to.

    Terry maybe greater than Kos in drug peddling only.. or maybe doing other peoples girlfriends..

  45. Ole –

    “Shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the game”

    Says who? You?

    If you don’t think getting shots on goal is fundemental to scoring, there you can apply your above statement to yourself. I really can’t believe we are debating this point.

    You have also came up with a stat of 80-90% the striker will score in a 1 on 1. I presume that you just made that stat up? Out of the 2 genuine 1 on 1’s on Sunday exactly 0% were scored just out of interest.

    Passing through the opposition in the final 3rd is not a measure of dominance until there is a shot on goal at the end of it. It just means you have given posession away more than not.

    You need to shoot to score Ole; not complete 18 passes with a nice little dink between the centre half and the full back at the end.

  46. Tom,

    It’s not a game of Top Trumps.

    We outplayed their full-strength side – even without those players. We created more chances than they did when the game was at 0 – 0.

    With Vermaelen at the back (which you forgot about), and RVP and Cesc and Theo up front – real difference makers, our best players… how can you say we couldn’t beat them?

  47. Zim –

    “but you’re all on a gloom-fest whipping yourselves into hysteria and all of you are neither objective, nor factual. ”

    How so? I have been objective so far. I have also been factual as far as possible; obviously much of football speak is opinion.

    Please show me where I have not?

  48. kasbisa… lampard has scored over 20 goals a year for chelsea for the last 5-6 years. fab is easier on the eye and massively important to us but lampard is ridiculously effective and consistent and does the same thing for them hence them being equal. he’s a fat chav cunt but a very good player.

    Saying terry is not better than kos is just nonsense… kos looks like he could be a good player… but better than arguably the best english CB of his generation!? be serious!

  49. limpar… im not saying we couldn’t just that i doubt that we would. we haven’t got the mentality for the big games. we seem to let the occasion get to us where as the chavs mostly just go through whoevers in front of them (yes i know they lose las weekend).

    not to mention our squad is never all fit.

  50. Zim –

    “All this Chelsea are simply a better side is complete nonsense”

    They beat us virtually every time they play us (in recent years), and have also won the lge a few times. Not to mention some cups. How are they not better than us, I really don’t understand your logic.

    You accused me of being factually inaccurate, but when faced with facts yourself you simply choose to ignore them

  51. and as much as i rate vermaelen and i really do, he hardly fixed the problem with our defense last year did he!?

  52. lol @ toptrumps though… fair play

  53. @Tom
    and with 30M who would you buy? all the non mediocre players are at Arsenal… or you still clamoring for Shwazzer??? My reference to Benitez is that they always were buying. But most if not all of those players ended up being mediocre after being hyped to high heaven. My swipe at Liverpool and relegation is based on the current standings of the table.

    @zimPaul.
    Read the posts mate. looks kinda lame you commenting and you haven’t read..

  54. Chelsea are a good side, very good. So are Arsenal, in case you hadn’t actually noticed what’s perfectly placed in front of your eyeballs, staring back at you in great, big, bold red and white letters … Arsenal.

    Have a drink, please. Don’t die of thirst. Enjoy the football feast.

    Like all cultures, we too say you can take a donkey down to the river, but if it declines to drink it is not possible to force it.

  55. we were much better tan chelsea ? thats why we won, oh sorry we lost. too many top names out for me and that meant we were always going to struggle against (like it or not) the best team currently in the prem. Not the end of the world though. I dont know at the moment i just dont know, players are inconsistant, playing well one day and making poor decisions/passes the next. One good thing is that the interlull gives some a chance to gain fitness in time for the man city game, just please none of the same old excuses if we happen to lose that one, instead do something about it, continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result is the meaning of insanitym or your name is Homer Sinpson, doh

  56. kabisa… thats not my job mate, 30m is plenty of money… wenger has a huge scouting network all over the world… if he cant find a better CM/DM than diaby or song or a better GK than al/fab with 30m he shouldn’t be in the job mate.

  57. You certainly are full of doubts, over there Tom. I can’t argue with that.

    Enjoy.

    If you think we let the occasion ‘get to us’ then you’re fucking mad.

  58. Zim – I never said Arsenal were not a good side, of course I think they are. Again you are simply making things up. Nice to see you didn’t bother responding to my points though…….I wonder why?

  59. Cesc’s goals and Assists are the best in Europe.

    Tell me if you could trade Cesc for Lampard any time and I would agree with you that they are equals.

    There is a reason why Barca is not tapping Lampard.

  60. limpar… im talking generally, we don’t seem to have the stomach for the big games.

    thats down to the management and the players he brought… the fact we’ve only beat chelsea and the mancs 6 times from 32 meetings tells you there’s a gulf in quality doesnt it? or were we unlucky all of those other games?

  61. Chelski is classless, from their “fans” to their owner. This club smell of shit. Here’s an excerpt of the match report at Vital Arsenal.

    “Chelsea`s classlessness in their employees was elucidated by the same announcer, in announcing Liverpool`s home loss to Blackpool, he followed up the score line by inviting the home crowd to cheer the news that “AND Fernando Torres got injured!” He would not announce the Manchester City result because, in his own words, “who cares about them?” With John Terry as captain and Roman Abramovic as owner, it`s not hard to see why Chelsea find etiquette and dignity such alien concepts to exercise. Chelsea always introduce a half time guest of honour. Yesterday, it was 1995 Player of the Year Erland Johnsen.” Which drew two distinct responses from the Arsenal fans, the first being, “He was here when you were s**t.” The second, upon seeing the general air of ignorance from the home support was, “You`ve never seen him before.” The lack of any sort of reaction from the home fans was instructive that, for large sections of the crowd, that was no exaggeration.”

    http://www.arsenal.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=520605

  62. They know Chelsea won’t sell?

    I would not swap Cecs for Lampard to be honest. Lampard scores hell of a lot for a central midfielder, but I have always though that when he is not scoring he does not offer a great deal. Cesc’s goals are a bonus in his play for me.

  63. @Tom

    I thought Liverpool was a big game. I also think we had stomach for that one. What you speaking of is so last season.

  64. Fuck off Arsenal Tom.

    Go and support the Mancs and the Chavs.

    In the case of the Mancs – enjoy the £800 million bill.

    In the case of the Chavs – enjoy it while it lasts. Because it ain’t going to last. Lampard, Drogba are ageing. And they won’t be able to spend £60 million every summer to keep up with us soon.

  65. kabisa… your misunderstand… i put them as equals as they are 2 out of the 3 best attacking midfielders in the league with roughly the same contribution per season.

    if anything lampard contribution over the last 5 seasons slaughters fabs but he’s clearly not a much better player.

    the reason barca arent going for lampard is cos he’s older, english and doesn’t want to join them… cesc however is catalan, young, and does…

  66. well done muppet… great contribution… i reckon the name “cunt” would be more fitting though.

    have a nice day

  67. kabisa… big but not massive. we did ok… still nearly managed to loose to 10 men though! if reina hadnt had an almunia moment then we would have

  68. I’ve read the posts Kabisa, and you guys are getting it (analysis of the game, and the state of Arsenal this season – you less than others admitedly) all wrong. We are good enough. The players are motivated, disciplined and did very little wrong. The game was even-steven, and any non-zombie neutral will confirm this. Chelsea played extremely well. I enoyed some of their moves. So did Arsenal. Many of our moves were spectacular. We will score those goals; what goes around comes around. They will miss tomorrow. We are EPL contenders. So is Chelsea. Their first 11 is a little better (especially for experience) than ours, arguably, but it’s marginal. It will be a fun season, no doubt. The early pace-setters in the EPL are not necessarily the eventual winners. History is not repeating itself, but you all are.

  69. You need to shoot to score Ole; not complete 18 passes with a nice little dink between the centre half and the full back at the end.

    What amazing insight! Wow, so you need to shoot to score? Who said you don’t?

    Playing a player through on goal or being in a position to do that is a goalscoring opportunity. It very clearly is. Nobody who knows anything about football would say it’s not.

    Imagine a cross into the box, right height for the striker, right pace, striker is on the edge of the 6 yard box and unmarked. ball comes to him, he swings his head and misses. Would you say that’s not a chance? What nonsense are you talking?

  70. and when have we ever spent 16m net let alone fucking 60m!?

    we break even almost every year with our transfers

  71. Arsenal Tom,

    You are clearly a moron. Fuck off

  72. Dear Arsenal Tom,

    Fab has the IT factor. Fab is the second coming. The dingy dangles. What Lampard never was at his age.

    They never will be equal. The day they will be, I will stop watching football.

  73. Tom,

    so if Koscielny’s header had gone in, what then?

    You’re really are a depressing fella.

  74. Detailed view of what’s gone wrong at Liverpool: http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/10/nice-man-wrong-job/

  75. Arsenal Tom.

    Give it a rest. Let us talk again in January when we are still challenging in all fronts and are already 13 points clear.

    If you notice, the Mighty Chelsea are not in the Carling cup. For the simple reason they fielded their non existent bench. That mighty bench is expected to carry them through out the season. God help them not to get any injuries.

  76. Furious Styles

    I dont get the continued argument about sundays game. Yeah we had a good bit of possession like we always do, but I dont feel that we were cheated or unlucky to lose. We just got beaten. Chelsea won because they took their chances and we didnt.

  77. muppet… where as you showing yourself to be such an intellectual… your the only one who has come on all day abusing people mate…

    everyone else has managed to discuss and debate football. if you dont like what your seeing then you sir can fuck off

  78. Sorry Kabisa, not really meaning to have a go at you to be honest; but there are so many positives. Arsenal Tom is a fool, no less no more. Not worth an exchange with him. Gooner Andy is groaning on like an accountant, notching up debits and wilfully ignoring the credit side. This moaning is so stupid, infantile is the right word.

  79. Ole,

    Too much praise for Manu than I can stomach.

    “By thw way, why is Chelsea the only ‘big club’ in the world that always plays Catenaccio against top opposition? If they’re so good, why don’t they take the game to the opposition, impose their will and then win 2-0.

    Juve, Milan, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Man Utd, Bayern, Lyon……none of these teams do that. I can’t imagine any other club whose supporters would accept playing rope a dope in every game when faced with top opposition.”

    Did you watch the last two matches manu played against barcalona in the CL (2007 semifinal and2009 final)? Fergie is no different from Mourihno and the others when they meet superior opposition, mate.

    Arsenal are the only team in the Pl who don’t revert to parking the bus.

  80. notlager… who knows what would have happened mate… but it didnt… imagine if anelka and essien hadnt missed easy chances…. then what?

  81. a great club need match winners, a talisman or 2.
    we have 3 in RVP cesc and walcott.
    4 if you count arshavin…

  82. @Zimpaul

    Then I dont have anything more to say. If you had read the post you would have realsised that we all are saying.

    Arsenal are very good.
    Chelsea had to resort to Hyena counter attack tactics to win against us.
    Chelsea could never set them selves out to out play us.
    Chelsea have practicaly no bench, and in a long season that will work agains them.
    Arsenal made mistakes that wer punished by chelsea.
    Arsenal didnt punish chelseas mistakes.
    Arsenal have a “Bigger” more first team bench than chelsea. We will challenge in all four front this season.

    and something to add. First blood went to Chelsea. the knock out will be Arsenals though. (I mean in the first scenes, the good guy has to be beaten first, doesn’t he?)

  83. “and when have we ever spent 16m net let alone fucking 60m!?

    we break even almost every year with our transfers”

    This attitude is excactly why Liverpool are in a mess right now. Their fans always feared to get left behind, putting pressure on their board to buy without thinking about the financial implications. The chairman caved in and sold their club to the next best buyer who had promised them an endless pot of money ala Chelski. Liverpool now is crumbling before our eyes and you keep harping on about wasting money. You are a moron who does not deserve a club like Arsenal.

  84. Ole,
    Strange statement in the last sentence of your 1.09 post seeing as goonerandy already said (at 12.23) Kos’s header was a clear cut chance!

    Whats with the misstatements today man?

  85. “notlager… who knows what would have happened mate… but it didnt… imagine if anelka and essien hadnt missed easy chances…. then what?”

    But keep highlighting the ifs when it’s going our way.
    You need help.

  86. Kabisa, apologies again. But, in fact, chelsea are no better “playing to their strengths” than we are. Different yes, better no. We need make no apologies to anyone for the game on sunday, no excuses, no “reasons”; just football life, the usual ups and downs. We played well. Another day, same team, we win. That’s football.

    We’ve dropped some points this season and yesterday we might have drawn. It’s a long season ahead.

  87. Henristic,

    Did you watch the last two matches manu played against barcalona in the CL (2007 semifinal and2009 final)? Fergie is no different from Mourihno and the others when they meet superior opposition, mate.

    In the 2009 final they were dominated. They had the upper hand in the opening 15 minutes remember. They just couldn’t get the ball off Barcelona. They didn’t set up to play Catenaccio.

    In the semi-final in 2008 they actually played catenaccio for 180 minutes, as well as against Roma.

    But these are exceptions that prove the rule. More times than not, Man United will go out and try to dominate possession, try to seize the initiative while remaining tight. They don’t just sit with 9 men behind the ball like Chelsea always do.

  88. Henristic | October 5, 2010 at 1:25 pm |

    You just misunderstood. I wasn’t talking about Koscielny. Koscielny DID get his head to the ball, and he was 2 yards from goal not 6.

    I was responding to the nonsensical idea that only shots on goals count as chances.

    It was a hypothetical.

  89. notlager…

    when i say break even i mean we sell the same value as we receive… so unless we’re going to sell 60m worth of talent every summer how are we going to bring it in?

    we just posted 56m profit… do you really think spending that would make us bankrupt!? ill tell you know it wouldn’t… its profit… money made after all costs are paid.

  90. I liked your 1.01 notlager. Nicely put and I agree absolutely.

    As for you Tom, the thing is that your posting is persistent and over familiar. Calling anyone ‘mate’ on a blog always seemes to be a sort of insult and indicative of an arrogance that you might as well respond to as Muppet did. You don’t debate at all. You just use a ‘reasonable’ tone to slag off Arsene and the team.

    It is a familiar trait.

  91. “Calling anyone ‘mate’ on a blog always seemes to be a sort of insult and indicative of an arrogance that you might as well respond to as Muppet did”

    lol really!? if so then im very sorry….. mate

  92. To this chav wannabe who calls himself ArsenalTom… If Mourinho becomes manager of Arsenal football club a lot of supporters will not even bother showing up for the games.

    Football is about entertainment as well as winning. You can’t compare going to a concert with listening to a song on a radio. Will Arsenal fans accept shite football, support shite attitude players with no brain, and cheer for a manager who always thinks about his own personal ambitions… I don’t think so.

    Chelsea are still a shite club. They have a solid team, and could well go on to win the league again, but they do not have the foundations in place to come out on top of Arsenal. I am 99% sure that had Chelsea had their main CB, CM, CF, and GK out like us they would have lost pathetically. This is just stating the obvious. And I am 99.999% sure Arsenal can claw back the 7 point gap pretty easily.

    We have had our injuries, we have got some tricky games out the way, now is the time we get a little run together after the International break.

  93. Ole,
    I’ll concede to you on the CL final, but as you said they did it twice before. Saying its an exception to the rule doesn’t cut it either as they don’t always meet teams like Barca. Not enough sample size to establish a rule either way. In one of their last two recent games they parked the bus. Thats enough for me to claim Fergie parks the bus when he meets superior opposition!

  94. Alex Ice Cream

    All of you who deride others for saying Chelsea are a better team that us are just deluded. They won the Double last year and beat us every time we play them. Its like Chelsea saying that they were better than us in 2002 when we used to beat them every game (remember that?) and won the Double.

    This level of delusion is one of the things that hold back Arsenal and has done for a few years now. The idea that there is nothing wrong, we will be better next year and dominate soon has been proven to be nothing more than a PR exercise. We have not been good enough to win for years now and although there are reasons for this, that is the unpalatable truth.

    The only way this team will prove that they are good enough is to win the Prem or CL or both.

  95. Re. “Arsenal Tom – fuck off and go support the Chavs”

    Now I know you’ll start waggling your Arsenal credentials around when I say this, Arsenal Tom, but… this isn’t as disloyal as it seems. People do it all the time.

    None of us here (I wouldn’t think) would begrudge you in the slightest for fucking off to support the Chavs. Or indeed fucking off anywhere at all. You could fuck off and support a netball team if you like, we won’t tell a soul.

    Change your name to Chelsea Tom, and, well… fuck off.

    I doubt you’ll get too many more of your precious trophies though. Arsenal are coming to getcha!

  96. A ‘Did You Know’ moment. For all of the trophies, for all of the money, Abramovich’s reign at Chelsea has added the hugely impressive number of 1,689 to their average attendance. Which just goes to show hugely entertaining and what good value for money, supporting Chelsea is.

  97. Whenever Arsenal reveal financial success, some irrational fans always point to that figure and decry when we don’t spend it. They’ll use it as proof to their baseless accusations that our club isn’t interested in winning.

    What they don’t realise is that our club is run by those with long-term vision.

    What they don’t realise is that profit is likely to be re-invested back into the club in various ways, from improved contracts to building us into a globally recognised brand.

    We don’t “need” transfers because the answer to our needs can quite easily and do come from the training ground and/or our academy.

    Share the vision and put on your shades cause the future’s blinding

  98. Ole Gunner | October 5, 2010 at 1:29 pm |

    My bad. Sorry

  99. we just posted 56m profit… do you really think spending that would make us bankrupt!? ill tell you know it wouldn’t… its profit… money made after all costs are paid.

    Some points;

    1. For a self-sustaining club, this year’s profit is the money available for the club to invest next season.
    2. The fact that we made money doesn’t mean you have to go out and spend it. £60M in this market would get you Kaka. Or Milner and Yaya Toure.
    3. The club makes profits because it doesn’t spend big. There is no alternative to doing this. No viable alternative.

    Saying all that does not mean we shouldn’t spend money mind you. We should. But frankly it’d be better if you left the manager and board to decide how and when needed.

  100. Arsenalkabisa | October 5, 2010 at 12:36 pm | in response to Arsenal Tom.
    I think you suffer from Beniteizm. Its a disease that afflicts people, and they get an urge to buy mediocre players for large sums of money.
    Kabisa that was brilliant. Glad to see you wake up on a more positive side of the bed this morning. As for Arsenal Tom, he is trolling from the glass half-empty side of the tracks. He has a right to moan but his negativity is awful.

  101. Ole –

    “I was responding to the nonsensical idea that only shots on goals count as chances”.

    You cheeky little fella. Sneaking the word “only” in there to help your argument. I never said that as you well know. My point was that Chelsea had as many “chances” as we did, so it is pointless debating “what if” as both sides could do the same. Additionally I was trying to point out that incidents such as Vela miscontrlolling a ball 40 yards from goal is not reall a 1 on 1 chance, whereas chancefs like Anelka’s definately was.

    You also did not explain where you got some of your stats from either. Perhaps the “strikers score 80-90% on 1 on 1’s. Doubtful you will as it was made up, the same as many of the facts you present to back up you points.

  102. And we’re still well in with a chance of winning both, Alex Ice Cream.

  103. Yogi’s Warrior | October 5, 2010 at 1:43 pm |

    “A ‘Did You Know’ moment. For all of the trophies, for all of the money, Abramovich’s reign at Chelsea has added the hugely impressive number of 1,689 to their average attendance. Which just goes to show hugely entertaining and what good value for money, supporting Chelsea is.”

    Good point YW. Can’t see them filling up a 60,000 stadium either even is Abrahimovich builds them one. But to be fair, I read somewhere that their commercial revenue dwarfs ours? Mainly due to their much increased overseas fan base?

  104. OH WHY FUCKING WHY!
    Can’t you doomers and fucking OH splash 30 million on this and this players is crap have come to this site! Go to fucking the grove where you belong with your constant whinging!
    This site used to be the highlight read of my day and now since this summer it seems those bloody trophy hunter, I believe everything sky says have taken over this site and it just drives me bloody crazy!

    You guys should just get over it! Arsenal Tom you are “supporting” the wrong club if you think spending 30M on one or two players will solve everything this is not Arsenal and you should just fuck off with your “song and diaby are crap we should sell them to buy quality” if you can’t see the qualities they bring to OUR team and would bring to any top team you are just a useless ignorant twat! If you don’t realise we have some of the top players in the whole bloody Europe playing for us with the football philosophy that inspired the most inspiring teams to have graced the world of football (ie Cruyff total football, the Brazil teams of Pele, Garincha, Zico, the barca dream team of the 90’s,…) you are just a bloody morron that understand nothing about football!

    Yogi I’ll keep reading your blog but I think i’ll pass on the comment section for now on because I get more and more frustrated by the so called fans that just can’t appreciate what is being done at my beloved club. We are graced with beautiful football that most fan from other club secretly or openly appreciate only to have sky brainwashed people that call themselves gooners on blog spitting their nonsense all over the web and even though they are a minority make everyone believe that most gooner think that way when there are a silent majority that are just happy to support a club and a manager that promotes good footballing values in a world crippled by money!

    Gooner since I was born gooner ’till I die!

  105. The only way this team will prove that they are good enough is to win the Prem or CL or both.

    It’ll be nice if we all supported them along the way instead of questioning them and writing them off at every turn. I think it’s perverse that you can’t even say to some Arsenal fans that we played well against Chelsea.

  106. Mainly due to their much increased overseas fan base?

    No it’s only because our commercial contracts were negotiated 8 years ago on long contracts which we needed to build the new stadium. If we’d negotiated contracts at the same time, their commercial revenue won’t be higher.

  107. *even if Abrahimovich

  108. @OG

    cant rem, but I read somewhere that we will be renegotiating our commercial interest sometimes this season or next. Oversees fan base for Chelsea?

    In Kenya you are a “Plastic” if you support Chelsea. Liver pool has even more fans. Arsenal leads followed a close second by ManUtd

  109. Ole – I do think we played pretty well against Chelsea. Certainly better than we have in previous years, and in that respect we have closed the gap on them.

    This discussion seems to have started after I commented that Chelseas were simply (currently) a better side than us. I don’t really see how that can be argued against to be honest.

  110. @ZimPaul.

    yest was a rant day. Am fine today. Up with the Arsenal.

  111. Ole Gunner | October 5, 2010 at 1:51 pm |
    “No it’s only because our commercial contracts were negotiated 8 years ago on long contracts which we needed to build the new stadium. If we’d negotiated contracts at the same time, their commercial revenue won’t be higher.”

    The increased fan base is definitely also a factor. Otherwise why hasn’t Fulham or Westham’s revenue overtaken ours as well?

  112. Arsenal Tom | October 5, 2010 at 11:45 am |

    Arsenal perfected the Premier League, in 2004. We want something more, thats ambition. Everyone wins trophies every year. Its getting boring unless youre trail blazing. Weve been there and done that, this project is far beyond trophies my friend. This is setting the standard that which all others will follow.

    Now turn that frown upside down!

  113. I can’t begrudge anyone a rant to be honest. We haven’t won in three games, one of which was at home to WestBrom. The team does deserves some criticism, imo.

  114. I meant 3 PL games

  115. gunnerluc | October 5, 2010 at 1:48 pm |
    Yogi I’ll keep reading your blog but I think i’ll pass on the comment section for now on because I get more and more frustrated by the so called fans that just can’t appreciate what is being done at my beloved club.
    Hold a second there gunnerluc. Are you surrendering to the Arsenal Tom and AICs of this world? I thought you were made of sterner stuff.
    Have you forgotten that 2-3 years ago these same faithless supporters were holding up Benitez and Liverpool as exemplars of football management. (Note Arsenal Toms demand for spending 60 million.) They won’t admit it now for obvious reasons. Today they come with their pro-Chelsea nonsense. Just tell them to F*ck Off and continue to post.
    Plus we need all that inside information on French football.

  116. I don’t know GA. Such an assertion is always easy to argue against, afterall, it seems to me the scoreline is a big factor to your stance.

    The most analogous question I believe is: (stating reasons) Would you say Blackpool are a better team than Liverpool?

  117. I see Chelsea as a thin side aging and on the way down. I see Arsenal as a young, deep side with tremendous upside still. After this last match I saw the gap between us close this time to a negligable amount. I saw a team AT HOME adopt a defensive strategy out of fear of our abilities against a very weakened Arsenal side without Cesc, Robin, Theo, and me, the Verm. That they adopted those tactics against us in this situation shows to me they know the jig is imminently up. Oh, and by the way Tom, REAL ambition is winning and playing beautiful football AT THE SAME TIME.

  118. Tom Vermaelen knows. Well said, Verms. Future Arsenal Captain right there.

  119. Gadget – If Blackpool had beaten Liverpool consistantly over a number of seasons and also won some stuff along the way it would be hard to argue against would it not?

    Chelsea are a better team than us because they beat us regularly, not because of Sunday alone. They won the double last year as well. It really is a no brainer and a bit daft to argue against it really. I don’t enjoy conceeding the fact, but unfortunatly it is a fact (at the moment).

  120. Henristic,

    Constructive critism is always welcome, but criticising just for the sake of it or because things haven’t gone your way, not so much.

    The team played great, we lost, it happens. Not sure what there is to rant about give the chaotic nature of things.

    I saw Predators last night. Now that movie is very worthy of a rant. Not as bad as AVP: Requim but of the Predator franchise, it’s tied with (maybe even usurping) Predator 2 as 2nd of my least liked films

  121. Tom,

    and with this money we bought Koscielny, Squillaci and Chamakh. Yes Chamakh was on a free but don’t forget wages, the biggest chunk of our expenses.
    Arsenal’s transfer policy has already changed thanks to our strong financial standing. We’re buying more experienced players and most importantly we can keep our best players. This comes with a heavy price tag. It can spirale out of control very quickly if you don’t watch out. And don’t forget we won’t be able to make a profit of 50 million each season (the biggest part coming from our property business) and some of which had already been spent.

  122. From Cesc twitter:
    cesc4official Cesc Fàbregas Soler
    I’m fit and training with the team. If the game was today i could have played, but it was 2 days too short and didnt want to take a gamble

    At least he was ommited from the Spanish squad. Ohhh two weeks for him to just get his fitness up. Blisss… its looking rosy..when are RVP and Walcot expected back?

  123. I’ve been there gunnerluc. Fed up with the fools and the knaves, and there are plenty of the latter.

    When push came to shove though, I just couldn’t stomach not standing up for our team and what it stands for.

    I’ve said it before, sometimes standing up for your team is both the least and all you can do as a supporter.

  124. Verm –

    “I see Chelsea as a thin side aging and on the way down. I see Arsenal as a young, deep side with tremendous upside still”

    I would agree with this 100%.

  125. shotta,very childish comment regarding me.

    not once did i demand we spent 60m… i said 30m would make us competitive… i was however told by someone else that we would soon be spending 60m every summer!??!

    guess i forced him to say that though.

  126. goonerandy,

    so you suggest next time we just give them three points at the Emirates without showing up?

  127. notlager… we look to have made some good signings but lets not forget they were replacements no additions.

    gallas off the wage bill easily covers chamakh.
    silvestre was on 50k, that’ll easily cover squillachi’s wages.
    campbells money will have gone to kos.

    i dont want us bankrupt but the idea that spending our profits/transfer budget turns us into liverpool is ridiculous and stinks of someone not understanding the clubs finances

  128. Fuck what happened last year! This year the gap between us and Chelsea is very, very narrow… and that’s with Arsenal less their best players!

    You concede your ‘fact’, andy, too easily by half for my liking.

  129. Tom,

    Liverpool’s net spending was around 10 million or so, not even 20 million each season.
    Where are they now?

  130. So it is 30 million Arsenal Tom. Same “Benitezism.”
    Thanks for the confirmation.

  131. notlager – What a bizzare statement.

    No I suggest we try and work out why we always seem to struggle agsint them a put it right. Stop being childish.

  132. notlager…

    they owe around 500m though, we dont. we basically have a 15-20m a year mortgage left this 2031. thats peanuts for a club who makes 3m per home game.

    we have 100m plus sitting in the bank, they dont.

    we have posted record profits again. they haven’t.

    when you have 56m clear profit please tell me how spending 30m of it would mean we’d be in the same situation as them?

  133. shotta… why would spending 30m of our (yet again) record profits be such a bad thing for the club!? please enlighten me.

  134. limpar –

    “You concede your ‘fact’, andy, too easily by half for my liking”

    What do you mean?

  135. GA,

    it’s not daft to argue against at all, just a perception issue. See from a purely results based stand point, yes, your arguement is flawless. Although, I would contend that over the course of last season, Chelsea were the worst team I’ve seen win the double (but at this point, I shall rein in my Tangent, my good old trusty steed).

    Ayway, the other hand is you can look beyond just the results to other factors: the technical ability of the side, the daring, the players at disposal, etc, and you can quite easily end up with an answer opposing your standpoint.

    To me, Ole has always looked beyond the superficialities of the final score, while you assign more weight to the score and table position. Taking off the qwartz, there’s nothing wrong with either stance, as both yield strong answers.

    But the qwartz is calling you a heathen..

  136. You cheeky little fella. Sneaking the word “only” in there to help your argument. I never said that as you well know. My point was that Chelsea had as many “chances” as we did, so it is pointless debating “what if” as both sides could do the same. Additionally I was trying to point out that incidents such as Vela miscontrlolling a ball 40 yards from goal is not reall a 1 on 1 chance, whereas chancefs like Anelka’s definately was.

    You also did not explain where you got some of your stats from either. Perhaps the “strikers score 80-90% on 1 on 1′s. Doubtful you will as it was made up, the same as many of the facts you present to back up you points.

    This will be my last word on this particular line of the argument. I don’t understand why we’re even arguing this. Having watched the game again, we clearly had the best of the chances. Again, you can slam us for not having scored and I’d agree. Their 2 goals weren’t even clearcut chances. The Drogba goal was a moment of magic. Question all you want how and why Cole was able to get behind us and cross, but we didn’t particularly defend that badly. You could even question why Squillaci allowed Drogba get to the ball first. But apart from that extraordinary touch to backheel it in off the post it wasn’t a particularly dangerous situation. A move like Drogba’s would have scored against most defences. I saw the Anelka miss. I saw Fabianski score on Essien. I saw all the times they came close to breaking the offside trap because we’d pushed up. All weighed together, we breached their defence much more than they breached ours. I am surprised how easy it was atimes.

    One example to illustrate. Diaby wins the ball in midfield. he controls, turns round, passes to Arshavin. Closing down both of them are Ivanovic, Essien and Ramires. Diaby then makes a 20 yard sprint leaving all three in his wake, Arshavin passes to him, Alex arrives to hold him up pulling Terry out of position. A couple of passes later Chamakh is true on goal but miscontrols. That was a chance. And it wasn’t extraordinary organisation or defending from Chelsea. At the same time it was brilliant play from us, right until when Chamak miscontrols. You can’t tell me it’s not a chance, and Chelsea were organised simply because Chamakh miscontrolled. You can see snapshots of that move here: http://www.twitvid.com/X0W4W

  137. Verminator… well said

    I don’t see a team in the league that comes anyway close to seeing so many blossoming outcomes of a long term ambition like our club has displayed.

    Its just a matter of patience, we could have easily bagged a couple trophies in the last couple seasons, I won’t go through the reasons why we hadn’t because I hate repeating it. The path our club has chosen to take is a very ambitious path, a path which involved creating an attacking footballing brand that fans all over the world adore us for.

    I wouldn’t swap it for any number of trophies Chelsea win with their 150k a week players who sleep with their mates wives. Football is so much more than just money, and buying a player for 60m because we are a BIG club. This attitude stinks, and the media are bigger idiots for promoting football to go down this path.

  138. Gadget – Fair enough mate. I love our football, but I believe that ultimately we need to have something to show for it.

  139. “we have 100m plus sitting in the bank”

    People, I would have thought a comments like this would have told you not to engage the author in a debate.

    I’m staying well clear

  140. The increased fan base is definitely also a factor. Otherwise why hasn’t Fulham or Westham’s revenue overtaken ours as well?

    Oh my sweet Jesus. The main components of commercial revenue are; your kit contract, your shirt sponsorship, your stadium naming rights, your secondary sponsorships, pre-season revenue…..in each of those categories, we’re basically even today. The difference is that our contracts were negotiated much earlier. If we both renegotiated new contracts this year we’d be getting more than them.

  141. You just saw an Arsenal team without 5 of our very best players only just narrowly beaten and you think that it is a ‘fact’ that Chelsea are a better team than us. I just find that a strange thing for an Arsenal fan to say.

    They weren’t even the better team than us on the day.

  142. we won’t spend any money because of our Dubitious Manager. And I just Don’t understand why we don’t spend Big on the players that are Needed. For example we do a Goal-keeper. And money that we have can buy us aleast one Goalie and a Decent DM.

  143. Ole – I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. We can breach their defence as often as we like, but there has to be something on the end of it. As is goes I have not critisiced the way we played to be honest, as I do think we showed improvement.

    I just don’t think that we dominated or battered them as some do. It was a fairly even game, with Chelsea having probably more “clear cut” chances and being more clinical.

    I just wish our players would sometimes shoot a bit more; we really do get ourselves in good positions only to look for another player. We seemed to cut that trait from our game a while a go, but it seems to be creeping back in.

  144. gadget… i just wanna know why people think spending just over half of our profits… which we’re constantly told by gazidis and co are there to be invested in the team would turn us into liverpool!?

    people need to realise just because wenger chose not to spend doesn’t make it the right choice

  145. Limpar –

    “You just saw an Arsenal team without 5 of our very best players only just narrowly beaten and you think that it is a ‘fact’ that Chelsea are a better team than us. I just find that a strange thing for an Arsenal fan to say.

    They weren’t even the better team than us on the day.”

    Ah, I see. To argue that they are not a better team than us just seems strange. They won the double last season, and beat us on a regular basis. That makes them better in simplistic terms.

    Do you remember when Ferguson said that Manure were still the best side ni the country after we last won the league. How we all laughed at stupid red nose. Now you are doing the very same thing. We are clearly not a better side than Chelsea (not just based on Sunday). Nothing over the past few years points to us being a better team than then other than we are nicer on the eye.

  146. SORRY BUT I HAVE TO REPOST THIS AGAIN

    we won’t spend any money because of our Dubious Manager. And I just Don’t understand why we don’t spend Big on the players that are Needed. For example we do a Goal-keeper. And money that we have can buy us aleast one Goalie and a Decent DM.

  147. Gadget
    “Constructive criticism is always welcome, but criticizing just for the sake of it or because things haven’t gone your way, not so much.”

    But given our recent results, which are not one-offs, I wouldn’t consider much of the criticism I’ve read “for the sake of it”.

    By the way, what would you consider constructive criticism? Because one thing I’ve noticed among many posters is that they can’t handle ANY kind of criticism of the club at all. From the pov of not wanting to hear anything negative about arsenal such people probably have a point, but they would probably achieve their aim better by not ever reading online blogs, or discussing with other arsenal supporters.

  148. Maybe we do need to buy, maybe we don’t. Either way we don’t really need to spend “big” though. At the start of the season most were happy with the squad, perhaps the keeper being the only debatable point.

  149. Agreed.

    Very, very simplistic terms indeed.

  150. There is an obsession with spending “big”, as if every big money signing has been a massive success at every club. Perhaps the word is “quality”. And nobody would argue if Arsene went out and signed a player who improved the quality of the squad.

  151. The last 4 games against Chelsea have been the same for 1 thing. We outplayed them and still lost heavily. The last time they deservedly beat us, and I was here saying they deserved to win, was in the FA Cup semi. If you can find that comment thread, I’m pretty sure I admitted they deserved to win.

    Since then they’ve scored 11 against us and conceded 1, yet in each of those games we had the best of the play and had better chances. I’m deeply convinced of it.

    Are they the better side? I’ll put it this way, until this season they had a better squad and were more advanced in their development as a squad since they started earlier and had thrown good money at it, with the resultant ability to make mistakes and spend their way through it. Now they don’t have a better squad. At no time in the last 2 years when we suddenly can’t beat them anymore have they been much better than us as the last 4 results would suggest.

    It reminds me when I taught my brother to play chess and then after one summer he came back from summer camp and I suddenly couldn’t beat him. Then I just played him again and again till I beat him, and then I got back to beating him regularly. 🙂

  152. All up’s and downs’ of with form. Even if our team is not quite as effective as theirs, I think our squad is (if that makes sense). Injuries will take their toll this season and we are best placed from all the top sides to cope (Man city as well maybe). Sunday was a good example really; we were competative against the top side in the county with the full spine of our team missing. Not many teams could do that.

  153. Tom,

    look at Hicks and Gillets spending since they took over at Liverpool. They bought Macherano, Torres, Aquilani. Players within the 20 million price range. Should that not guarantee them at least a CL place irrespective of the interest rates they have to pay off? Look at Germany: Bayern with two of their best players injured are sitting at 12th place at the moment and the only club worse than Schalke, the biggest spender of all, is Stuttgart.

    In the end I guess it’s senseless to discuss financial matters with someone who refers to millions of pounds as peanuts.

  154. Just shoot Drogba, problem solved.

  155. YW – Bang on. You don’t always have to pay top dollar for that either.

    Even more so with our side. The type of player is more important to this team than others I feel. We could buy a player who would shine in our system, but may look average in other sides. Alternatively a real “star” player may not fit into our sytem. I think that is why Arsene seems to pick up quality players around the £10M mark where others pay twice that.

  156. theres also an obsession that buying players leads to going bankrupt.

    people citing liverpool is so ridiculous it makes them look retarded!
    do people think they spent 500m on players and got nothing back for them?! lol!!
    they are in trouble because they were brought by people who borrowed huge sums against the club and did it on shit rate loans which they now cant afford to pay back.

  157. Ole Gunner | October 5, 2010 at 2:35 pm |

    “Oh my sweet Jesus. The main components of commercial revenue are; your kit contract, your shirt sponsorship, your stadium naming rights, your secondary sponsorships, pre-season revenue…..in each of those categories, we’re basically even today. The difference is that our contracts were negotiated much earlier. If we both renegotiated new contracts this year we’d be getting more than them.”

    Having a discussion with you can get really tedious sometimes. I was only pointing out that the success that Abramovich bought has led to their increased commercial revenue.

    Have Chelsea’s commercial revenue increased since Abramovich took over? Did it at some point become more than Arsenals?

    How can you say the fact that it has increased has nothing to do with their increased fan base but everything to do with the lack of growth in ours (due to long term contracts)? If that’s the case then why haven’t other less successful clubs increased their revenue by as much?

  158. Tom

    A prime way of getting people to laugh at you is to use the word ‘retarded’. My kids use that and are 7 & 10. It’s that sort of level.

    OK. You don’t like Liverpool as a comparator. Have you ever heard of Leeds United?

    YW

  159. What do we do with the new players when the rest of our squad get fit?

    Maybe some loan deals… just before each Chelsea fixture… 1 game loan deals.

  160. There is an obsession with spending “big”, as if every big money signing has been a massive success at every club. Perhaps the word is “quality”. And nobody would argue if Arsene went out and signed a player who improved the quality of the squad.

    As usual, YW puts it best. Very well said.

    I’ll add that I won’t commit suicide if we ‘spent big’ either. One just hopes that fans are realistic about the extent of our finances. I also hope that fans would realise the transfer market has gone mad, and the only way to navigate if you dont have petrodollars is to seek value, and be careful.

  161. notlager… its all relative… to a monster company like arsenal in an industry like football a million pounds is peanuts mate.

    torress at 20m is a steal… when they sell they’ll get 40m+

    masch they brought for 17 i think and sold for more or less the same.

    aqullani is shit but they’ll get 15m probably as he’s loved in italy.

    they sold alonso for 30m after paying 10m for him so they didnt do all bad business

  162. One things for sure; if we are ever at the point where everybody is available we are going to have some very good players not even in the match day squad.

    Almunia
    Sanga
    TV5
    Kos
    Clichy
    Cesc
    Song
    Diaby
    AA
    Nasri
    RvP

    Sub: Fab/Sqillachi/Gibbs/Denilson/Theo/Chamakh/Rosicky

    That leaves: Eboue/Ramsey/Vela/Bendtner/Djourou not even in the match day squad. All full internationals.

  163. Goonerandy

    I would argue against Chelsea being the better team for the simple reason being our 1st team would quite easily turn them over. We beat them at the bridge the season before last with a fit Van Persie. I know this whole crying out for injuries gets a bit boring and brushed aside by the supporters who can’t stand the excuses… but its not an excuse its a FACT.

    Who can possibly argue that Chelsea struggle to even get a point against us they lost their main CF (Drogba), their main CB (Terry), their GK (Cech), and their main CM (Lampard) all in the same game?

    Effectively that is what we had missing in Van Persie, Almunia, Cesc, and Vermalen. I am pretty convinced we would murder them, and we still gave them a pretty decent game with that disadvantage. Even then I have left out Bendtner, Theo and Gibbs who are aguably 1st teamers when fit.

    Solving the injury problems, like you said Andy, Wenger has built a fine squad full of options through the youth development. Something which would not have been possible had we gone down the route of buying big name players, and giving out big wages on players like Carrick, Milner etc.. They are oridinary players who would struggle to impress in our team, and are costing their teams over 80k a week.. how much Milner gets I don’t know, but whatever it is he ain’t worth it and no other team apart from City would pay him that much.

    The path we have chosen has luckily allowed us to be able to challenge, and this year should be no different with the squad we have. I still believe we have the best squad, and I hope it proves us all right come May. I think we are the only top 4 team left in the Carling Cup right.. that is the 1st indication.

  164. Oops, forgot wee Jack.

  165. Henristic,

    I think I understand what you’re saying now. I’m just saying that their revenues are higher than ours not because they have a wider fan base than ours but because they have newer commercial contracts. I didn’t say their fan base hasn’t increased.

  166. Dammit, it would be too rude not to respond.

    AT,

    We cannot not buy anyone now, so there is no point in discussing transfers (and to be honest none are in a better position than our scouts and manager to determine who we should buy when the window is open).

    However, your demand suggest you hold no faith in our training regime or the players we have. The success of our academy, the improvements in Song, Denilson, Eboue, Fabianski, and Almunia. You’re already writing our improvements (near future and realised) off as failures, you’re essentially saying that no matter what happens between now and January, the players we have aren’t good enough.

    Thirdly, you appear to think the only way investing of the team happens twice a year, rather than all year round. The investment is constant, it’s just not done in a manner which creates massive ripples in the media.

    Despite popular belief hindsight isn’t really 20-20 vision. We could have purchased Drogba, but that doesn’t mean we would have won trophies. We could have forsaken Emirates, stayed at Highbury, and attempted to buy overrated players, doesn’t mean we would have won trophies.

    The reason why people are saying the calls for £30 mill purchase is akin to Liverpool-like disaster is because essentially you fail to limit yourself.

    £30 mill in January? Not only is that is a ridiculous amount of money to be throwing around in January in times of financial difficulty, there is a failure to consider beyond that.

    Do you think it a fluke Arsenal are one of the few debt free clubs around? You’ll probably say no, but yet your calls for frivolity would suggest otherwise. It starts with £30 mill in Jan, then £40 mill in summer, then maybe another buy the following Jan, then an extravagant purchase in sum. Where does it end? You will say that it is simple, but your answers will not be honest, because the sole truth is it will only end with restraint or bankruptcy, and fortunately Wenger is showing the former.

    Your lack of faith is disturbing, because you’ve not replaced it with sufficient reason.

  167. Chris – Maybe, maybe not. Nobody can say for certain, although we would definately be better equipped. I do agree with you that if they were missing the same calibre player they would struggle against us.

  168. YW.. yes, funnily enough i have! but again we arent anywhere near them, we’ve heard from our directors time and again we dont rely on CL money to pay for our debts… our stadium generates 3m a game!

    over the basic 19 game home season thats 57m. our annual debt repayment now is around 20m. we have the highest ticket prices in europe… i doubt leeds did!

  169. Andy –
    What are you talking about man?? The chance just before diaby was tackled was a one on one (JW i think it was?) & free header for Chamakh were ‘clear cut’ chances; & as you mentioned Vela has a chance as well..

  170. Shoot Drogba.

  171. Gonnerandy,
    I think its a myth that ‘star’ players may not fit in our system. Top class players are defined in part by their ability to play different systems. They are top class usually because they’ve got the more than average technical skills (or quality) and have delivered at the highest levels.
    I can’t think of a widely regarded ‘star’ player that wouldn’t fit in our system.
    They reason we don’t buy them is chiefly because they’ll cost too much, and AW prefers to develop them himself.

    Besides we’ve got quite a few in our squad (V. Persie, Cesc, Arshavin) and having too much of them may not necessarily be a good idea (RM anyone?)

  172. Tom,

    you look retarded with one of these statements:

    – we have 100m plus sitting in the bank
    – 15-20m a year mortgage is peanuts
    – we haven’t spend money from our profits
    – spend spend spend

    And I ‘ve never said that spending leads to bankruptcy. But spending alone won’t solve problems. Liverpool shouldn’t be in the relegation zone with the money they spent for their transfers. Arsenal are doing something right when we have 10 players injured and spent less on tranfers and can still compete. What are the club of Mainz doing for sitting at the top of the German league with an unbeaten winning streak, a reacord in German football?

  173. mj – Vela was not a chance. He was 40 yards from goal and never had control of the ball. That is not a chance, if you think it is you are grasping at straws.

    Anyway, can’t be bothered having this argument again. We had chances, Chelsea had chances (more clear cut).

  174. Not joining in any conversation or anything, but Fernando Torres is looking washed up to me, which might just have something to do with him playing injured for nearly a whole season. Every Liverpool game I saw in 08-09 he was strapped up like crazy. It was pretty common to see him break down, come off the pitch, before going back out there again. I remember thinking it was a bit irresponsible on Benitez’ part. Obviously I’m no expert, but it’s looking like he’s going to have to change his game to adapt to the loss of pace.

    It kinda makes me glad we don’t take as many chances on our players – with transfer fees or injuries.

  175. gadget… first off… nice to get a reply not full of nonsense insults!

    to be honest i dont see huge improvements in al and fab… in fact i think almunia has gone backwards and although fabs done well in his last 2 games lets not pretend he’s the finished article.

    song this year has been massively frustrating last year he was a decent DM this year he seems to think he’s fabregas disregarding his ‘DM’ tag.

    diaby will be diaby… brilliant, powerful and unplayable at times, anonymous, lazy and useless in the next game.

    denilson is ok. unfortunately thats all he is.

    i dont think you’ll ever see a title winning team with these players. song is the only one i think deserves to be starting games this year.

    i appreciate how well managed we are, and im thankful for it but we have just posted record profits (again) after a summer of minimal investment (again).

    i dont want us spending 100m but we clearly needed a new GK and we had all summer to address the issue and didn’t do it properly. thats poor management.

  176. Arsenal are better than Chelsea.

  177. Henristic,

    Constructive critisicism would be something like “the boys aren’t playing that well today, but they just need to slow the game down and make simple pases to feel their way back into the game” – my comment from watching the kids at my school play a game yesterday.

    Criticism for the sake of it: “he’s poo, blah blah blah not good enough, rant rant rant, we can’t beat them cause we’re rubbish and weak and get bullied off the ball, cry weep sob”

    Constructive criticism identifies a problem and then poses a realistic solution. Criticism for the sake of it is just an self-serving & self-aggrandising strop

  178. notlager… you did…

    “This attitude is excactly why Liverpool are in a mess right now. Their fans always feared to get left behind, putting pressure on their board to buy without thinking about the financial implications.”

  179. goonerandy

    Their style of play certainly frustrates us, but its hard to really knock our team when we barely get to see our 1st team play them. Its frustrating to highlight the same problems all the time also, you just hope somthing will change as they are bound to have looked into all the possiblities of our high number of injuries.

    I don’t mind us being underrated by the Media, its just annoying that some of our fans overlook the injuries and class us as a team that is miles away from challenging. This is completely false.

    The only way to make everyone take us serious is to go on and win something. I think Wenger has prepared his squad as well as he can for us to do so, but it would be nice to have a little less injuries. I believe we can win any of the trophies we are in, obviously the Premiership is the toughest and many factors play a part.

  180. here’s a question id love an honest answer to from anyone reading…

    what do you think we’ll win this year?

  181. Who’s ‘we’?

  182. my predictions…

    4th
    CC semi
    FA cup quarters
    CL quarters

  183. Tom,

    that’s why they’re now where they are. They spent unreasonable. Benitez didn’t trust their youth players and rely only on their established players while their fans cried for more spending. Bad judgement from manager to board.

  184. limpar… why are you always trying to be such a smart cunt?

  185. Good one Limpar.

  186. notlager… but they didn’t spend hundreds of millions on players did they!? they didn’t take out ridiculous loans to buy players did they?

    the money the club owes is because the yanks borrowed against the value of the club to buy it! buying players like torres has given them a valuable asset if anything not caused any debts

  187. I defy anyone to prove to me that Chelsea are the better team AND club than Arsenal in 2010/2011. There is one way to show they are the better team. EPL and CL position in May, plus the silly silver, otherwise, it’s all just hypothetical nonsense talk. We shall see which of the teams overcomes all that EPL, football and life throws at them come May.

    But seriously, chelsea are the single crappest excuse for a club in Arsenal terms. Why would anyone lend them ‘support’. They play some good football, that’s it? If that’s your yardstick, then pity on you.

    GoonerAndy, stop being so balance sheet-ish; there’s such a thing as sticking with your great team through thick, thin, and the middle bits, and they others can ALL go @#@#! themselves. Try it, it’s very liberating.

  188. Arsenal Tom

    Try reading Gadget’s last comment. You pretty much take any credit away from the players you chose to list, classing them and their abilities over your general feelings towards those players.

    I would like to see how you rate the Fletcher’s, Milner’s, Carrick’s in comparison to our lads. Very anti-Arsenal POV you have, you need to take a serious look in the mirror ‘mate’.

    On the GK front, Wenger would have happily dipped into the transfer market if he found someone better than what we have, and found someone with experience who was available. It didn’t work out, get over it and support.

  189. I don’t think you’re an Arsenal fan, Arsenal Tom.

    Never have. You’re only on when we lose and you always talk bollocks.

  190. Arsenal Tom

    If Torres was playing for Arsenal giving the effort he is putting in at Pool would you class thas as an asset.. The team is going down, and Torres doesn’t seem to give a shit, he is a liability.

  191. lol limpar… i come on for a bit of debate mate, to get different opinions. people here seem to think that questioning anything at arsenal is wrong!?

    chris…

    fletcher… good player, scores important goals, big leader always talking.

    carrick… shit, total bottle job as soon as a big game comes along.

    milner… decent and a hard worker. massively over priced though.

    and i always support i just don’t see the big problem with asking a few questions along the way?

  192. Tom,

    they did. And more than us.
    The interest rates they have to pay off didn’t stop them from buying Torres for 20 million pounds, did they? He’s injured now. That’s the drama.

  193. chris… agree about torres at the moment, but when they come to sell they double their money because everyone knows how good he can be

  194. ChrisGoona | October 5, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Yeah I agree with that.

  195. Classic, Limpar. When we ultimately win something, there’s going to be a lot of: Hey, guys, I’m happy to eat crow, I’m just happy WE won. That attitude really irks.

  196. not lager… liverpool owe 350m. do you really think they spent all that on players without receiving a single penny back!?

    if you do please show me where the 350m went and what happened to the money the received back when they sold the players

    the debt is related to the takeover like man utd

  197. Zim –

    “GoonerAndy, stop being so balance sheet-ish; there’s such a thing as sticking with your great team through thick, thin, and the middle bits, and they others can ALL go @#@#! themselves. Try it, it’s very liberating.”

    I always stick with the team and club. I am just open minded enough to accept that we are not always the best team all the time. I am sure our time is right around the corner though.

    Try opening your eyes, and not following the crowd. Its very liberating.

  198. I dont think it’s fair Torres doesn’t give a shit. He’s had a mixture of no injuries, no rest for 3 summers in a row, and poor form.

  199. An on form Torres is quality.

    Ole is right, bad patch coupled with injuries is his issue. He will leave in the summer and probably go back to spain.

  200. AT,

    No problem, I don’t do insults (well only sly ones), but if I feel someone is trolling I am liable to suggest or call them a troll, so I apologise.

    Obviously I feel differently about our players than you do, that’s a subjective thing and to argue such would take up the better part of our week I fear (well 2 weeks before any real football is played. Could be fun!) Nonetheless, Almunia is getting unjustly criticised. I’m sure he himself will tell you he could have performed better last season, but this year, he’s been solid. You can single out the WBA game, but the whole team performed horribly that day, so to do so would be churlish. The bottom-line is Almunia has improved since last season and was (and in my eyes) still is on his way to silencing his critics.

    On the issue of 100M in the banks, no business would ever let 100M sit in an account. That money is getting reinvested in way that are pushing the club forward. If management think there is someone we should buy, then fair enough, but I think for us looking in from the side-lines calling for purchases and stating it as a failure of management when for whatever reason a purchase does not happen, is quite the height of arrogance.

    This season Almunia had a bad game because the team allowed him to have a bad game. A good defence can save a keeper more often than a keeper can save a defence, and Big Al, bless him, he tried to save the team against WBA, but by god was it a hard task.

    And to be fair, even in his worst season, he certainly saved us against Barcelona, so I’m giving him all my support, because he’s a better keeper than most, and more importantly, he’s ours.

  201. andy –
    I think it was you who mentioned it. I know it was not a clear cut chance, but the other two were.
    Apart from that I think Diaby had a chance to shoot on goal inside the box, which was blocked. Dont remeber clearly though.
    Dont forget Chelski created most of the chances after they were leading & when we had most of our men in their box. Till nil-nil the chances were equal, i would say we were better till then.

  202. Torres should never of cut his hair. He used to look in the mirror and see a champion, now he looks in the mirror and see’s a wanker

  203. Gadget –

    “This season Almunia had a bad game because the team allowed him to have a bad game. A good defence can save a keeper more often than a keeper can save a defence, and Big Al, bless him, he tried to save the team against WBA, but by god was it a hard task”

    I don’t really want to go into all this again……but; no matter how bad the team defended had nothing to do with his error. It is an easy get out, and completely wrong IMO. It was (the 2nd goal) a basic goalkeeping error and nothing to do with the defence.

  204. Arsenal Tom @ 3.37 pm

    Do you have any idea, how many years did Darren Flecther take to become the player he is?

    Common sense is what you are missing

  205. gadget, fair play all good points.

    i dont think many people that although i dont think some of the players are good enough it doesn’t mean i want them to fail. id love nothing more than diaby, denilson, al, and song to all become world class and prove me wrong because ultimately it will benefit the arsenal.

    it just frustrates me that now that we finally have the resources to make changes in personnel (i dont want 5 players all costing 20m a piece) we didn’t take that chance.

    plus the idea that criticising means im not a fan is such bollocks. its only cos i care so much that i come on here to vent and talk about it.

    and yeah al against barca in the first leg was pretty special!

  206. I can see where this is going..
    *sigh*

  207. I dont know but for me, I am not going to have a long deabte with someone who thinks Lampard is Equal to Cesc. You are talking about the most complete CM in world football. When the heck has Lampard ever put in a deadly assist?

    Who would say that Terry is a better defender than Kos (based on what, him being a bigger name).

    Who would say that Anelka is better than Nasri and Walcott (based on what, been playing longer). Also isnt it Chamakh who Anelka should be compared to and I can tell you what Chamakh has been the better of the two this season.

    Sed person glaringly left out Sagna whom most would say is the best RB in the PL.

    Malouda>Arshavin = Not sure about that one either.

    It would seem to me that someone is a closet Chelsea. Everyone else is coming out of the closet, you can come out too.

    The problem remains the same – bigger name players “logically” Must be better.

    Annoying!

    If Arsenal played Chelsea full strength in the prior seasons we could correctly assess who is best. Until that happens I will not concede they are or were superior. Even last season, injuries were our undoing at the end of the season. Yes it gets old but its still true.

    ARSENAL!!!!

    Have blessed day all

  208. Tom,

    clubs with with smaller transfer and wage budgets are doing better than Liverpool at the moment or last season.

  209. Limpar @ 3:21:

    “Arsenal are better than Chelsea.”

    I know you are trying to be positive, but its hard to accept that you can really believe that statement. Our record against them the last 6+ years in all competitions is 2 – 13 – 3. We have not scored on them in over 270 minutes and we have lost those 3 games by a combined score of 0 – 7. We may have a squad which on paper rival theirs, but at this moment they are clearly a better team. It is not being negative when the facts are so difficult to dispute.

    We have a deeper squad and Chelsea may falter if they start to have injuries to their key players. I agree completely that if we can keep this squad together that we will probably overtake them in the next couple of years. Like you I think our potential is unlimited. We clearly have a great squad on paper but for some reason this group of players has not yet figured out how to be great team. Hopefully the boss can change that going forward.

  210. mj… if only i had the amount of common sense you did…

    who’s Darren Flecther though?

    ive heard of mr Fletcher not Flecther you mentioned.

    try reading it back before you make insults about people’s intelligence genius

  211. ArsenalKabisa –
    I just love your avatar.

    Anyone has any insider pictures of Bobby training at London Colney?

  212. never mind ..

  213. Bill – Nice post as normal.

  214. Funny, but I have felt that Arsenal were the best team in the PL for the past few seasons. I hope that not bias but when I look at the talent and skilllevel of our players, I just cannot see anyone who is more talented.

    I do get the point that winning and losing is ultimately what it is all about but I just think for our squad there are more factors that dont come into play.

  215. Bill boring as usual.

  216. GA,

    I wasn’t talking about the 2nd goal. Note, I said he had a bad game. (And if I didn’t that’s what I meant)

  217. Paul – I know what you are saying, but I do think that the league table does not lie. The best team wins the league. I have heard countless managers (including Arsene) and players say the same as well. It stands to reason.

    If there was a table for most attractive football we would win hands down, but there isn’t. The league reflects football results, and we have not been the best (or even 2nd best) for some time now.

  218. No, no, no, Bill. We’re a better team now. We have better players who are better at playing football. Call me a purist but to me that means we’re the better team.

  219. Gadget – Ah, my bad.

    Limpar – We are? That is not what the current lge table points to, nor the result on Sunday. I supose we could just claim bad luck and say we are the best anyway eh?

  220. Limpar – Being “better at football” is not all about good fast passing you know. Accurate shooting, good tacking, tactcial awareness, heading etc all come into play.

  221. After the game on Sunday, Arsene pointed out that at the end of the game several Chelsea players were visibly suffering.

    Today it comes out that Alex suffered a hamstring scoring that goal. Karma is a gooner. I’m betting the game would prove to have had other ramifications for them.

  222. I know I said I’ll stop commentating but just can’t help myself and like you said shotta I won’t let them win the battle.

    Tom you say we have not invested this summer but that is just ignoring what is happening in the club you”support”.

    More than half the team has signed a contract extension by the end of last season which most of the time means an increase in wage which as Wenger said countless of times counts in the transfer kitty. I am glad we made sure important players for now and the future are tied to the club rather than get a 30 million pound signing that might not provide the expected returns. Like someone said before signing Drogba, Essien or Torres would not have meant that we would have won any trophies.

    We spent between 14 and 16 million pounds to sign two quality defenders (8-10 million for Kosc depending on who you get the info from and about 6M for Toto) plus we signed a striker on a free transfer instead of paying 12M like Bordeaux asked for last year.
    For me that is a pretty important investments for someone who is stubborn and refuses to splash the cash.

    The only place where I agree we could have improved the squad is in the GK situation, not to replace Almunia or Fabianski but to give them more competition and thus get the most out of them. But like I said countless of time before was there a GK available that could improve us? I don’t think so. The 2M quoted for the service of an ageing half-proven GK was more than reasonable . For the other usual suspects they were not available at least not for us (Man city for example were reluctant to let Given go and especially not to us and anyway would he had agree to take a significant pay cut? I’m not so sure).

    Yes we have recorded record profit but, not underestimating what the board and Wenger have achieved is also quiet subjective. In this profit you have to take into account that a sizeable amount of it is made on a one-off situation. Indeed we won’t have flats to sell for the rest of time. We also made a big chunk of money from the sale of Adebayor and Toure for whom a bored Sheik has paid way to much.
    What I want to get to is that to continue to have a sustainable business model that enables us to refuse the advances of a club like Barca for our best player once we sold all of our flat is to continue to nurture the young players we have educated for the last 10 years (which is a important investment) and not sucomb to the siren of short term success like many other club did.

    You say liverpool are in this situation because of the two yanks buying the club on debts that they got on the clubs which is true but how many degen, babel, lucas… Benitez has bought because of supporter and owner asking for instant success for a ridiculous amount of money which did not help the club financial situation.

    Look at Redknapp “wonders” at pompey he got the instant success with and FA cup by spending huge sums of money only to find them at the bottom of the championship and going down to the obscure league one only a couple of years after.

    Look at Leeds who where at the top of English football at the time and thought money will guaranty them success, it took them nearly ten years just to recover and reach the championship and my boss who is a leeds supporter can tell you, it is one of the most painful ten years he has had to endure in his life.

    Chelsea seems to be in a good situation but what will ghappen when Roman gets bored and decide he had enough of Football manager? All the money he poured in is a loan, interest free but aloan never the less, and let me tell you that whenever he goes away he will want this loan to be reimbursed and how do you think tey will cope with that? Same but even worse for Man city!

    Sorry to everyone for this really long post had to take this off my chest, and just so you know every trophies we have almost touched only to see it claimed by someone else has been really painful and whan we will get our hand on our next trophies you will hear me scream with joy from the other side of the planet but what I want most is the club to be sustainable and be playing with the right philosophy so that my beloved club keep being competitive and winning trophies for decades to come!

  223. Hopefully they picked up 11 injuries, including something terminal for Terry.

  224. technically no is close to us in the league.

    but when it comes to winning matches unfortunately chelsea are far superior, hence why we haven’t finished above them since we last won the league.

  225. GA, the last time we won a major trophy we were definately not the better team on the day.

    The table is not lying at all, they are the champs. I dont begrudge them of that BUT I want to see us consistenly feild our best players against them and then we can take a another look.

    I dont know what the issue is with us a injuries but its a big part of our coming up short if you ask me. With that we shouldve taken our chances, we were good enough to win Sunday. That make me feel really good for the rest of the season.

  226. Bill, why can’t you accept that someone feels Arsenal are better than Chelsea RIGHT HERE AND NOW. Not last year, not the year before, but now. We all know the record and that’s not what we’re talking about. Based on what I saw Sunday, I think we’re better. I thought we played them even with a depleted squad in their house. We lost, I understand that, but I still think we’re better. I just prefer not to wallow in the misery of the past. Time will tell.

  227. The current league table means fuck all. We’re 7 games in. The result on Sunday doesn’t mean a great deal more – because 5 of our best players were out injured.

    Beat Birmingham, beat Man City, and suddenly we’ll be back in the race.

    There’s not a lot between the two teams, granted, I just happen to think Arsenal have the better players and play the better football – which to me makes us a better football team.

  228. In one felled swoop we have it.

    The prove me wrong mentality can be found in the realms of the fan, but never of the supporter.

    With ‘prove me wrong’ you start with the expectations of failure, and if you expect failure how can you ever support? You don’t encourage because there is no point. You do not support because there is no point.

    Such a philosophy is so at odds with a supporter’s, they are too diametrically opposed. It’s little wonder supporters have little patience with fans, nothing causes a war quicker than two opposing philosophies.

  229. Since when does profit equal cash?

  230. Im with you on that LA, you too Verminator!

    I thought we were better last season too.

  231. Amazing that people think that we aere currently better than Chelsea. Believe me, I hate to face this truth but that is what it is at the moment. there is no evidence to back up the ttheory that we are the better side, where there is a shed load to back up the Chavs case.

    People who can’t see this are either:

    a. Extremly blinkered
    b. Know very little about football.

    Limpar – We do have better players…………at playing a passing game. Football is more than that.

    Football is about winning (as it is a sport), and if other teams win more than you, and indeed beat you it tends to mean that they are better than you. It is not that difficult to get your head around (seemingly it is).

  232. Gadget | October 5, 2010 at 4:24 pm |

    I take it you would put me in the “prove me wrong category”? If so, it could be not further from the truth. I always think we will win. When we went into injury time on Sunday, I still though we could nick 2 goals. Maybe even a 3rd. I am suprised with every defeat. That is why it frustrates so much I supose.

  233. how can media & fans even talk about a gap at the top of the table & talk about contenders & losers, after just 7 games?? I mean for fucks sake 31 games to go 109 points at stake; lets just take it easy. Not to mention 3 other competetions we are going to compete for!

    Its unbelievable some c*nts are already asking for new players!

  234. GA,

    did I not explain why your stance is both right and wrong? You said fair enough, without an argument, and yet a few hours later you’re back to your rigid view point? Remarkable

  235. Limpar:

    I guess our definition of “better team” is different. I still think we can and may be we will be the better team at some point. Hopefully this year. if not may be next.

  236. 100% agree with you Gadget & Limps

  237. GA,

    I’d actually put you in limbo. You support the whole but not the component parts. You can flit between the two camp with ease.

    It is why I have yet to decapitate you.

  238. Off home.

    Tomorrow peeps.

  239. Thanks for the post Yogi.

  240. Gadget – “Fair enough” as I accept your opinion on things. I have mine, and you made some valid points. All is good.

  241. People who can’t see this are either:

    a. Extremly blinkered
    b. Know very little about football.

    Goonerandy gettin’ nastehh. For someone who gets all worked up name calling and personal derision I’d say that’s pretty, uh, hypocritical.

    I like to think I look deeper into the game than just looking at a result. I like to take in all the circumstances and the overall feeling of the game. My conclusion: we’re better. Chelsea will be found out before the end of the season. They’re paper thin.

    As Goonerandy likes to say: I’m just calling it like I see it.

  242. Gadget – I don’t see myself in any “camp”. I just have my opinions; some agree with them, and some don’t. Which is fine by me.

  243. Verm – Fair one, and I hope you are right (as you well could be).

  244. Agree with you Verminator. Chavs will be forced to ignore the FA Cup; & not sure they’ll be able to maintain their league position if they concentrate on UCL too much..

  245. GA, you dont have to believe it, thats your right.

    but for me, ARSENAL ARE THE BEST TEAM IN THE PL!

  246. Verminator:
    Difficult to argue that we outplayed them when they outscored us by 2 goals and they had 2 players with 1 v. 1 chances to score that they did not take, and they lost one goal on a very close offside call. Today we are 7 points back. The Chavs have scored 23 goals and conceded 2. We have scored 16 and conceded 9. We have a great squad of players and I still think we will eventually overtake them but I do not think we are there yet.

    I do not begrudge anyone their opinion. We blog because we like to discuss our own opinions. If you really believe we are the better team right now more power to you.

  247. People who don’t think Chelsea are a better team than Arsenal don’t know very much about football…

    Fucking hell!

  248. hello all

    I’ve been struggling to really pin down my feelings after sunday. But I’m very proud with how they played and desperately wish we had Cesc or RvP on the field for the match.

    In the United States there is a phenomenon that is often discussed that many Arsenal fans are suffering from these past few days and I wanted to discuss it to shed some light on the subject and hopefully make those really feeling down and out, well if not better, then a little foolish for their dooming and glooming after the first weekend in October.

    This phenomenon is known as the “Monday Morning Quarterback”

    In the National Football League, quarterbacks are given incredible amounts of responsibility and in a lot of set ups autonomy from the play calling coaches on the sidelines. They can receive a play to run from the sidelines, and then call an audible at the line of scrimmage when everyone is set up ready to begin the play, changing the play completely based on what the quarterback is seeing the defense do. Where to pass the ball, too hard, too soft, missed receivers, standing still in the pocket, SOOOOOOO many things about a quarterback’s performance can be analyzed and critiqued.

    and its so easy to say “oh he shouldve done this” “he shouldve done that” on Monday mornings (all NFL games with the exception of one Monday night game, are played on Sundays) and so many people do it that the phrase “Monday Morning Quarterback” has come into existence.

    What’s great about the phrase is that it has limited useless or babyish criticism and whinging. when people bitch like that, people in this country say “Stop being a monday morning quarterback you big baby”

    So, I say to all you in the Arsenal universe who feel Wenger isnt a good enough tactician, who think he’s naive to play his brand of football at Chelsea, who think he’s senile and delusional, etc etc

    STOP BEING MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKS

  249. Our defense is the best in the league and the best in Europe, so obviously we are the better team.

  250. Busch are you related to the American Beer Company people?

  251. After sunday I can’t help but be possitive about this team. If they put that type of effort in week in and week out until may we will walk away with the leagu e and maybe the champions league too.

  252. Alex Ice Cream

    Its ironic that Dirty De Jong was dropped by Holland due to his violent play on the same day that Kevin “Elbows” Davies was called up for England due to his er, violent conduct over the last few years.

  253. I do have some St. Louis heritage… but no, no relation.

  254. Blind opinion to at that Chelsea game and fail to see that we were quite clearly the better side. To say, ‘we lost’ is a bit ‘simple’. We all know we lost. The question is who had more out of the game. Seems strange that some think who won definitively tells us who played better. It’s one of the interesting things about foot ball that the better team would usually win, but the better team could win, draw or lose. We lost to West Brom, but I dont think anyone would say they’re the better team. We lost many times to Sam Allardyce’s Bolton and it was never because they were better or played better. We saw the result of the game

  255. Well put NJGooner.

    At least from what I understood, it seemed well put.

  256. NJ Gooner:

    Excited about the baseball playoffs? Much as I hate to admit it, I actually hope the Yankees win the first round of the playoffs because it we beat TB then we get home field against you in the next round and I get to go to more games. Its been a great year. Tom Hicks (Liverpool owner) finally sold the Rangers to a great new ownership group and we actually made the playoffs. This is also the first time that I can remember that there were actually more Ranger fans in the stands when the Yankees or Red Sox came to town. We are one of 3 teams that has not made the playoffs in the last decade and we are the only baseball team still in existence that has never won a playoff series or the world series so this is really exciting stuff for us. I know it is routine for you Yankee supporters, but I am giddy. Good luck to your Yankees until they come to Texas.

  257. “Newcastle have written to the Football Association asking for “the appropriate action” to be taken against Nigel de Jong for breaking Hatem Ben Arfa’s leg….And Newcastle have asked the FA to look into the tackle, which went unpunished by match referee Martin Atkinson. “It was unnecessary and used excessive force,” read a club statement.”
    Just wonder what the reaction from managers/media will be like compared with Shawcross breaking Ramsey’s leg??
    Is Arsenal Tom really SUGA (or his sibling), if so only another 10 hours to go!

  258. Bill, you didn’t read what I said. To recap:

    I thought we played them even with a depleted squad in their house. We lost, I understand that, but I still think we’re better.

    As you can see, I did not say better, I said even. We played them even in my eyes with a squad without 4 of our best and most dangerous players on their home pitch. If Kos hit a point blank header, I feel that completely changes the gameand a 1-1 draw wouldn’t have been considered unlucky for either side. Unfortunately, we lost. I don’t care that they scored tons of goals against shit sides. They come up against City, their first real competition, and they lose. I don’t care that at this point of the season they’re ahead 7 points. It’s not even a quarter into the season. I can look at their play and I see an aging side that is not nearly as tight defensively as previous seasons, with almost zero depth. I don’t see why you find it so difficult to see that.

  259. Exactly, Ole. If you’ve seen the match then you know that we outplayed them.

    But then a Chelsea fan would counter with – “But they won last year too!”, missing the point that noone is talking about last year, we are talking about who is the better team this year.

    It doesn’t take much for an Arsenal fan, who has seen Cesc and RVP and Vermaelen and Theo and Ramsey play – to say that we are the better team…

    …Cos we are the better team!

    I’m distrustful of Arsenal fans who don’t see that. And if they really are Arsenal fans then you’ve got to feel sorry for them. When we do win, all the prowess of winning and winning well, the skill, the glory of playing attacking, stylish, courageous, honest football will be completely lost on them. It’ll just be another W in the win column… another trophy to tot up and brag about. ‘Football is a results business’, ‘football is about winning, and winning only’, ‘the only thing that matters is the score’. Imagine if life were that grey? So neat and lawyerly? Sounds fucking rubbish to me. Thank god I’m an Arsenal supporter instead!

  260. C-Bob

    I did my best explaining it. I shouldve thrown an analogy with futbol in. The quarterback has a level of pressure on him similar to ‘Keepers in the footy. as someone said in regards to our goalkeepers, your only remembered for your last mistake. very true for QB’s too. but they also have the pressure to score and produce quality possessions, similar to a striker or attacking mid is expected to be the fulcrum of an attack. So it really is, in my opinion, the hardest job in sports.

    But i really feel the monday morning quarterback analogy fits for our situation very well. I was actually quite excited to talk about it with you guys bc i feel its very fitting, especially after sunday when we had our chances but couldnt capitalise. You can be sure ill be using the analogy more in the future.

  261. Bill

    Congrats my friend!!! your right, a season is a MASSIVE failure if we dont even make the playoffs, i would even go as far as to say anything short of a World Series appearance is more or less a failure for the Yankees. So with that said, CONGRATS! enjoy playoff baseball.. few things like it. I didnt know that the Rangers had never even won a playoff series. I wouldve thought you wouldve managed that with Nolan Ryan during his time with the ball club.

    Well enjoy , hopefully ill be seeing you in ALCS!!! beat those rays!!!

  262. Verminator:

    Can not disagree with the points you have made, and I have run out of anything new to say. Obviously this is a discussion which has no right or wrong answer and probably has run its course for the day. Agree completely with your points regarding the depth of our squad, and their lack of depth and relatively aging squad. Ultimately I hope your point is proven correct at the end of the season.

  263. Ole, if we win this season I’m sending a big Fuck You to everyone who doubted this team starting with the doomers on down to the closet Chelsea supporters.

  264. And if not I’m sure we’ll all come up with a good reason why the best team in the league didn’t quite manage it. It would be quite an accomplishment following our worst league start for 12 years.

  265. NJ GOONER:

    We were the Washington Senators up until we moved to Texas. When we were in Washington there were no playoffs, only the world series, and we never made an appearance. After moving to Texas the only 3 playoff series we ever played in were against the Yankees during your great dynasty of the mid/late 90s. I think you swept us in all 3 playoff series so we have not ever won a playoff game. Again good luck and hope to see you in the ALCS.

  266. No, when we do you will come on here saying you always had faith in the team.

    weakling!

  267. or the usual horse shit – ”I am glad they proved me wrong”

  268. NJ Gooner, great stuff. I’m from the states too and know the phrase well. Maybe that’s why I find it so easy to just dismiss it out of hand (it is fun, however, trying to wind some of them up on occasion).

    An analogy that might resonate more over on the other side of the Atlantic would be that of the back seat driver. Maybe in the UK they call it a left side driver, I don’t know, but I bet everyone knows what I’m talking about; when that person who isn’t driving (i.e. everyone who is not Wenger) says something like: “you’re driving too close, turn left there, why are you in this lane when you have a turn coming up, watch out for that little doggie.” All the meaningless babble from someone who can’t be a passenger because they would rather be in control. That is what we ALL are, by the way; passengers on the Arsenal bus (my 3 1/2 year old son has a replica team bus that comes to mind when I think of this).
    I would say all those comments like “we must buy a new GK, CB, DM or we’re crap” come from people who need to feel like they are in control of Arsenal and are frustrated because “if only the manager would listen to my great ideas we would be winning!”
    You know the type, everyone does, the same people who think their idea is the best in work meetings and won’t listen to anyone else’s, who interrupt you mid-sentence to tell you how great this thing they just thought of is. These people are not supporters, they are (in their own little minds) pretenders to the crown.
    Me, I’m happy being along for the ride!

  269. Utter tosh. They’re supporters who happen to have a view which you don’t share. So what ? That’s what adults do. They have opinions about things. It isn’t childish to suggest ways a team might improve. It’s what every supporter has done since competitive football began. It’s part of the game.

  270. The good ship ACLF has righted itself:
    …. Doomers represented by Arsenal Tom have written off the gunners 7 games into the season.
    …. Waverers, represented by goonerandy, blow hot on Monday and cold on Tuesday. Proven serial vacillators who declare they wait to be proven wrong that Chelsea is the better team.
    …. Prodigals, represented by Arsenalkabisa, who, in their disappointment flee their spiritual home on Monday, but return by Tuesday recharged and energized to fight the spirit of Juogi (per KenyanGunner).
    …. Supporters, they remain nameless, who dare to take positives from the negatives, knowing that the chain to success is only as good as its weakest link, whether Owner, manager, coaches, players and fans.

  271. I don’t think it’s realistic to suggest that the fans have that much influence over the success or otherwise of a team. Liverpool supporters have for a long time been lauded as among the best and most fervent in the land yet they haven’t had too much effect there recently. Similarly Newcastle, Sunderland and Portsmouth. Earlier it was noted how relatively poor Chelsea’s support was since they started winning things.

  272. DFB,

    Hi there. It is not childish to suggest ways a team might improve, no argument there, but sadly the sort of discourse you seem to be referring to has become infrequent on ACLF.

    It is infantile to continue in the moaning vein ad nauseum while resorting to name calling, selective amnesia, profanity, poor logic, etc…. And, like a backseat driver, it is childish to constantly chirp about how this player is crap, how that player who plays for that team with the fancy shoes is soooo much better than one of The Arsenal players, who is crap, and if oooooonly Wenger would loosen the purse strings we could buy real “match winners” and other “world class” players. Perhaps you have a different definition of what a supporter is…I include below the synonyms of the word as well as the proper context to display their meaning…what my post referred to is none of this!
    [Middle English supporten, from Old French supporter, from Latin supportre, to carry : sub-, from below; see sub- + portre, to carry; see per-2 in Indo-European roots.]
    Synonyms: support, uphold, back1, advocate, champion
    These verbs mean to give aid or encouragement to a person or cause.
    Support is the most general: “the policy of Cromwell, who supported the growing power of France against the declining power of Spain” (William E.H. Lecky).
    To uphold is to maintain or affirm in the face of a challenge or strong opposition: “The Declaration of Right upheld the principle of hereditary monarchy” (Edmund Burke).
    Back suggests material or moral support intended to contribute to or assure success: The important medical research was backed by the federal government.
    Advocate implies verbal support, often in the form of pleading or arguing: Scientists advocate a reduction in saturated fats in the human diet.
    To champion is to fight for one that is under attack or is unable to act in its own behalf: “championed the government and defended the system of taxation” (Samuel Chew).

    Ask yourself what and whose posts meet this criteria and I think you will find enlightenment!

  273. Shottgunna
    In just over 2 weeks time Chelsea will be forgotten ACLF will be full of City are shit and we will beat them easily just like we were going to beat Chelsea.What people seem to have forgotten over the weekend that City went above us and they have beaten Chelsea.Ant if things go wrong it will be all down to yes you’ve guessed it injuries

  274. Gris Gris – 10/10 for the research. Although I’d still question the relevance to football 😉
    I honestly don’t relate to your definitions. I’ve always classed myself as an Arsenal supporter, have been for years along with all of my family (yawn). But that doesn’t mean I can’t be critical at times. I don’t advocate sacking Wenger or spending mega-millions on big name players (we never did this in the past by the way – Henry, Vieira, Pires, Wright, Seaman etc) but I do believe people have the right to voice their views without being ridiculed or told to “grow some” or “go and support spurs”.

  275. If what GrisGris says means nothing to football then to call someone a “supporter” needs to be abandoned, innit? for you cannot take away the meaning of what it means to support for your own purpose.

    Again, the reason why the home team wins most of the time is because they have more “support”, there is really no other reason. Even the poorer teams usually fair better at home.

    Yes the reason why people need to grow up is because we are all of 7 games into the season and in 4th place and people are bitching.

    When the season is won in 7 games, you have all right to moan.

  276. Girs Gris…maybe you need to explain the word “constructive criticism” instead of explaining “Supporter” every one seem to think of themselves as the best supporter in the world or just because he owns a season ticket since grand grand super grand pa Henry the IXVMVI gave it to him before he died pissing on White Hart Lane’s southeast walls.

    I think there is a fine line between constructive criticism.

  277. Frankly winning is winning. Style is style.

    The style is why I watch every single Arsenal game. Winning is reinforcement.

  278. ‘The style is why I watch every single Arsenal game. Winning is reinforcement.’

    Ole, thats very convenient isn’t it?, Lucky you.

  279. Have the chelsea supporters gone? Arsenal ‘Tom’ and G (‘hot ‘n cold) Andy amongst others? Let’s see how far chelsea ‘walk away’ with a title this year, or any other team. If you can’t see Arsenal are up with the best and serious EPL contenders then you really are a bit media-stupid. If 2 games games is all it takes to dismiss your own team for the coming season then you are not a supporter. If all you can say is that your own players, team, system etc is not good enough then we disagree. We are good enough. If you can’t even celebrate a good performance against a top, top side then you are ‘doomed’.

  280. Winning with Style is The Invicibles they had both.We have style but not winning.Do 60,000 people really want stylish football in front of trophy winning football.I dont think they do

  281. As of now, realistically, any of four teams can win this year’s EPL. ManC has joined the big boys now, and Liverpool has departed. Who wins, and how, will depend on so many factors in the coming months. Chelsea remain favourites because their first team is experienced, very good and have been playing together a long time. Very compact and (ugh) effective. But just 3 injuries and they become compromised, more and they are in trouble. Arsenal are arguably # 2 currently, and we all know why – don’t we? Let’s just say we are considerably strengthened from last year. ManU # 3. Old legs, financial woes, Red Knights, but they have Rooney, some good youngsters but ….. and ManC have now bought their way in; very strong players defensively at the back and in midfield, they have the outstanding Tevez and Johnson looks great; they are surely to become the most hated team in the land. In all this, but it takes a little too much time here, thinking objectively I would put Arsenal as good as any, because as the season wears on, fitness and squad depth will be a telling factor, Wenger’s management will be a deciding factor, and we have Cesc, RvP, Walcott, Bendtner, Vermaelen and Gibbs ALL to come back. Diaby looks fine again, and Fabianski looks well up for a fight for # 1. Excellent. the downside is 7 points adrift, but statistically, footballistically, historically and any other way you look that will not be the over-riding issue. For me, the Chelsea game was interesting because it confirmed that Arsenal has strengthened relative to Chelsea, who were never leaps and abounds ahead anyway, and our players know they can do this. As Arshavin concluded, we needed to score 2 or 3. We could have, might have, had everything we needed to score, but didn’t. Yet, we are a high-scoring side and we had enough chances. There is no obvious problem; neither phsychological nor defensive, nor keeper. Therefore, logically, we will also win games we might have lost, just as chelsea, bless ’em, will lose and draw games. This EPL season is closer than ever. The top 6 or 7 re all close enough to beat each other at times. For Chelsea, it will be a case of injuries and fitness. For us, we need a consistent and confident run to build momentum (and luck).

  282. Do 60,000 people really want stylish football in front of trophy winning football.I dont think they do

    YOU don’t think YOU do.

    Empty seats at Chelsea shows that their 35000 want more.

    Which isn’t to say that Arsenal’s 60,000 want no trophies.

    The bottomline is that winning is the cherry on the cake. Validation for whatever style you play.

    Many teams play like Chelsea and win nothing. Teams play like Arsenal and win things. Not least of all, Arsenal.

    Trophies are won in May. The season lasts from August to May. The thing that brings people to the stadium from August to May might be the hope of winning a trophy. But it’s also a desire to enjoy the football. Whatever kind of football tickles your fancy. If you love to watch your £400M team put 9 men behind the ball against supposedly inferior opposition, then you’ll come for that. If you like to see your team express themselves, take the battle to the opinion, and go for the 3 points fearlessly then you’ll come for that.

    Of course there are other factors. Arsenal is traditionally a family club. It represents much more than the football. There’s tradition, and other intangibles associated with the club. All other clubs have their intangibles.

    The bottomline is that the fans don’t come primarily from August to May only with the hope of winning a trophy in May. If that were the case, most clubs will exist. Most clubs would never win even one single trophy. And even the ones who win regularly will have periods when they don’t win.

    In the end, the surest thing that puts bums on seats is entertainment.

  283. Thought you fucked off already, James?

  284. Zimpaul, theres a dark house lurking this year as well……

  285. …..Sunderland

  286. Ole Gunner | October 6, 2010 at 9:35 am |

    “Frankly winning is winning. Style is style.
    The style is why I watch every single Arsenal game. Winning is reinforcement.”

    Agree completely.

  287. Henrisistic, but if a new manager came in, lets say – George Graham, you’d still watch them wouldnt you?

  288. Our style of play is why we still have the global and seemingly increasing fan base that we currently do. We don’t have the history of Liverpool and Real Madrid, or a recent trophy haul (Manu and Barca) to explain such an extent of global support.

  289. Of course I will still support Arsenal James. I’m hooked now. But I’d probably not be as exited about watching our matches.

  290. WE GOT IT ARSENAL TOM!!!! YOU FEEL LESSER THAN.

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