Arsenal Say No, Will Cesc? And No Cole Deal

The official offer from Barcelona was contemptuous in its submission, resoundingly swatted away. £27.3m, £29m, £31m in England or €35m in Spain. Not the €40m suggested. Not the €45m they are willing to go to. Far removed from the £80m Arsenal reportedly wanted. Certainly nowhere near the players true value. Cesc, you may love Barcelona but they do not love you enough. Or as much. Yet.

Of course, it was an opening gambit with an improved bid likely to include Dmytro Chygrynskiy. Even so several things can be read into the derisory offer.

Firstly, stories of stung pride receive validation. Whether or not it is an urban legend, the tale that on taking office Joan Laporta found a note attached to Fabregas’ file suggesting that ‘you will have to explain how this one got away‘, lovingly left by his predecessor gains traction in the root of the soon-to-be former Barcelona President’s obsession.

And it has been an obsession. Certainly in the last four years, barely a summer has passed without mention of the ‘Golden Boy’ returning to the Camp Nou. Quite whether various coaches have shared that view has yet to be publicly acknowledged.

Secondly, they sought some crumb of comfort or opening to exploit. Much grandstanding has gone on in the media from the Catalans, a day has not passed when they have failed to have someone proclaim that the King of Catalonia is coming home, it is only a matter of time. Big words which were short on action.

Lastly, for Barcelona to get their man, they have to move up several notches on price, Arsenal descend equally. That seems an unlikely scenario. So, Cesc has to ask for a transfer to leave, forsaking his bonuses, etc. Is that likely to happen? No.

I suspect that the next tack taken by Team Fabregas will be the homesick and unhappy player route, trying to publicly coerce Arsenal into a sale. Fabregas Snr will be the one to watch; whatever he comes out with next is the official line of Junior.

Arsenal has stated its position unequivocally: The player is under contract to 2015 and will remain at the club. There was no room for manoeuvre in their words. They are, in essence, setting Barcelona up for a Fifa enquiry for tapping up. especially as they have not encouraged the Catalans. I suspect the club has proof of this, using the media clippings to emphasise the point.

The Spanish media report that Barcelona have read the statement and decided that it means they have to improve their offer and try again. AS hints that the timing of the offer had nothing to do with the opening of the transfer window – something that Laporta’s cronies have been emphasising in recent days, as if they are acting properly by waiting until June 1st to make their official approach – but more to do with influencing the outcome of the Presidential elections.

Sandro Rosell, not Laporta’s preferred successor, has collected more signatures supporting his candidacy than his three rivals could muster between them. Certainly the logic applied by the Catalans does not fit with the two unofficial approaches where they were told politely to stop pestering Gazidis and then threatened with being reported to BT as a nuisance caller.

El Mundo Deportivo reckons, without any substantiation, that the player is going to put pressure on Arsenal, hurt that his wishes have not been obeyed and absolutely furious that Wenger has not helped him leave the club. They also claim that the offer had two bonuses attached to it, increasing the price should Barcelona win trophies but again they decline the opportunity to elaborate on this. Had it been known by them, we would as well simply to make the rejection more sensationalist.

The English media seem, for once, largely supportive of Arsenal’s stance albeit using quotes attributed to Barcelona ne’er do wells from a few days ago rather than last night.

Where does this leave Fabregas? Well, aside from being missing off the club’s official membership letter. There is a limbo in which he is operating. He can telephone Wenger for another long conversation but given that he has apparently or wilfully misinterpreted the initial chat, it seems pointless. He has to force the issue if he wants to leave.

Either that or start to build the bridges which although not entirely turned to cinders, are substantially charred. His only public statement as ‘Arsenal will decide my future‘ even though the remainder of his words made it clear he wants to leave. That is counter-productive, signifying a malcontent who would rather not be here.

The public pronouncements of love for Wenger and the club have washed into the seas of hollow words. Kissing the badge now seems more out of concern for removing the mud on his shirt than any profession of loyalty. That is not to say he has to leave, simply that the relationship with us has changed. His motives are now questioned and questionable if he stays. We expect him to give his all, 100% in every performance if Arsenal stands fast.

And he will receive our support because he is an Arsenal player, albeit diminished. I doubt he would ever be subjected to catcalls, he is simply too good a player to allow his pride to be stung by putting in a performance of such poverty. He will find his every move scrutinised, his play analysed to the nth degree, signs sought to support the view he would rather not be at The Emirates.

The trust is gone. The trust he built so assiduously, even though we knew one day he would be gone, has evaporated as his departure was not expected this summer.It is going to be a long summer for Arsenal supporters on this one unless Rosell wins, staying true to the view that Barcelona simply cannot afford to buy Fabregas.

Elsewhere, Mark Schwarzer won’t go away, Fulham apparently looking at David James to replace the Australian so that he can join Arsenal whilst reports of a deal being done with Joe Cole seem premature, the Chelsea player wanting to concentrate on the World Cup. Maybe the Arsenal negotiating team will be flying out to see him which would make the plane a ‘Cole Shuttle’.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on June 3, 2010, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer, Transfer Gossip and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 251 Comments.

  1. I’m breaking the BB monopoly.

  2. Has Guardiola made any comments whatsoever regarding Cesc? It’s so bizarre the way transfers are dealt with by Barca with the manager seemingly not a part of it.

  3. Thats the way Arsenal!!, We love Cesc whether he likes it or not!

  4. Well in Vince.

    “Cole Shuttle” mmmm?

    (I posted this on previous blog)

    Maria, I was reading the comments on the link you posted and this one I failed to understand.

    As long as he can play in goal, he wont sign

    From our old friend, gooner2.

    Can anyone give me an idea what that means?

    One thing about a possible signing of J.Cole could be Theo moving more to a strikers role from next season.

  5. Please no more jokes!!!!!

  6. I think you are a little hard on Cesc. He has always professed a love of Arsenal and has simply said that when he leaves Arsenal he wants to go to Barca.
    Now I’m not naive enough to believe that he doesn’t want to go now but I think in his statements he has made sure that he hasn’t burnt his bridges with Arsenal and the fans.
    Unless a ridiculously large offer comes in £55 mill + (?) I think he’ll give us one more season. I think it’ll make next season even more interesting.
    Not sure about Schwarzer though, he’s been a decent keeper but at 37 I would see him as a sound No.2 than our first choice. A holding position for Chesney? Personally I would splash £15 mill on a top goalie who would be with us for 5+ years.
    Come on you Reds!

  7. The trust has not gone… he will have the trust of fans. Fans know what the problem is. he would not be leaving Arsenal if arsenal had won any silverware in last couple of years.
    Fans have to use their brains. He has given a lot to Arsenal and vice versa to get it washed in couple of days.

  8. Question:

    Has he said he wants to stay?

    YW

  9. YW, I think Cesc is under pressure even from ‘friends’ at Barca and family and any normal human being would be swated but if he stays, he has my support, ‘no bridges burnt here’

  10. Cesc would be loved by barca’s fans, just as he is loved by us gooners. However, it’s plain to see arsenal value him more that barca’s “managerment”. And by that I dont mean money, I mean his presence, his ability. He’s what our team has been built around, he’s our bloody captain!

    I’ve been hoping thierry would come out and say something on the matter, he is leaving after all! Helb has played his part aswel as pires and now it’s up to henry! If the cards are played properly barca could come out badly in all of this and make cesc think again!

    Nice post YW!

  11. Question:

    Has he said he wants to go(now)?

  12. Not so sure about the Cole rumour.

    We can get a clue if we look at the new restriction on squad sizes this year – 25 players:

    We’ll need
    3 keepers – New No. 1, Almunia, Fabianski (or Mannone)
    4 Strikers – Van Persie, Bentdner, Eduardo & Chamake

    That leaves us with 18 players for defence and midfield. Let’s have a look

    Defense

    Vermaelan
    Clichy
    Sagna
    Djourou
    Eboue
    Gibbs

    Midfield

    Fab -?
    Song
    Arshavin
    Rosicky
    Nasri
    Diaby
    Walcott
    Vela
    Denilson
    Ramsey

    By my count that leaves room for 2 new signings –

    The most important thing to remember when taking into consideration when trying to second guess Wenger is that he has been quoted as saying that signing more than 3 players is “taking a technical” risk.

    But as things stand now he may need up to 4 new signings.

    He’s already signed Chamakh.

    Considering that if you take a look at our defense do you really think we have room for Cole?

    So my money is on us signing another central defender and possibly 2 or if we keep Sol I think we’ll get a defensive midfielder to go with Chamakh and a new keeper.

  13. I think that Wenger realises that his time is running out. If we lose Cesc he might as well throw in the towel.

  14. YW he did say “I’m very happy at Arsenal. I’m in no hurry to leave the club” in his first interview apparently.

    http://onlinearsenal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22451

  15. Fuck off, mohamed

  16. Frank: So wanted to say that!

  17. Where was the sense in spending whatever it was on David Villa leaving them so insultingly short of cash to buy Cesc? Did they want Villa before Real Mad got in there, and in the process revealing their lack of seriousness and commitment over Cesc. if he stays I will be neither supportive nor a rejectionista.joe cole allowing Theo a central role could be an interesting option.

  18. Excellent post, I think you are spot on when you say that the next words from Fab senior will be the official line of Fab junior.

    This Rosell, we can’t afford Fabrégas whine is nonsense, he knows he is going to win the election, he knows that this negotiation will land in his lap and he also knows that crying poverty is step one in trying to reduce the price of any wanted player.

    In short, “IF” Fab wants to leave and “IF” Barcelona are serious about buying him I hope that Arsenal make them bleed.

  19. Yogi can you work your magic on that last sentence? Thanks

  20. Do Chelski fans remember John Terry (their own homegrown) considered leaving last Summer, and only stayed due to a massive salary bump?

    If Cesc stays our relationship with him will be intact although we’re a more prickly bunch than the blue bunch.

    I love you Cesc.

  21. At duckster, the rules are such that <21 years old are not included in the 25 man squad, they r free to be used by the manager at any competition. from your list, as of 1st jan 2010, ramsey, vela, walcott, and gibbs were all under 21. so we have extra 4 spaces to fill. AW can there4 sign cole and have room for defenders. we can also bring wilshire and eastmond into the team as they r stil under 21.
    ive heard rumours of kjaer, is he any good?

  22. Bob

    Do you think that FCB would be pursuing him if they had not received encouragement from the player?

    YW

  23. YW,

    Hard to see who is encouraging who. My understanding of the story is that Cesc has been told he has to come this season or forget about it.

    Another understanding of the story is that Cesc knows Arsenal won’t let him go easy, and he’s very keen to not make his stay untenable should Arsenal force it.

  24. Great post. It is impossible to definitively know what Cesc believes, but putting yourself in his shoes helps. He has always wanted to go back to Barca and we know it. He has also given Arsenal a lot and been given a lot by Arsenal, but what has been made clear and we did not know before is that the future is now, i.e he would take that transfer now. Whether he would do it at any insulting cost and terms is still to be seen. The timing for this is about Barcelona, the current manager, the players etc etc. He has looked at them and thought: I should be there.
    The world cup too has come at a point where he just wants to fuck off and be Spanish. Enough to risk what he has here, I think that is fair enough.
    Where does that leave Arsenal. If he stays he will play, there will be upset on both sides and he is not Arsenal anymore on his own, but he will play for us and he will be magnificent. So for Arsenal fans, the news is good. In two years time, the board can still sell him (if they want) for more than the money being offered now and we will have had two great seasons from him.
    Oh and Barcelona can offer real money any time.

  25. YW,
    If you mean the sort of encouragement that is suggested by a player saying that he would like to play for a particular team, well yes I think Cesc has made it transparent he wants to go.

    He may well have been approached and he may have said yeah, I’m willing to come this year.

    I’m sure they would not be pursuing him if:
    1) He wasn’t an outstandingly good player and that he wouldn’t fit seamlessly into their style of play
    2)He had said he really don’t want to go to Barca!

    I’m sure you’ll agree, Arsenal hold the cards and will be able to extract a large fee IF they decide to sell him.

    Cesc is too classy and level headed to throw his toys out of the pram so I’m still hoping he’ll stay for one more year.

    Come on you Reds!

  26. Barca are being very shrewd, putting aside all disgust with their antics and arrogance.

    They do want the player a lot. However, they know that to get a player like Cesc from a top club, when he has 4 years left on his contract, and his present club does not want to sell, they would have to pay well over the odds.

    In the current market it would be a blockbuster transfer. They don’t have the money and are trying to avoid paying.

    However that’s also where they’re ultimately very stupid. Ibrahimovic had maybe one year left on his contract and wanted to leave, Inter wanted to sell, yet Inter got 70 Million quid of value from Barca.

    Arsenal will be very very stupid to sell for anything even remotely less than that, and that will be considering that perhaps Cesc himself might want to go to Barca.

    Let’s not forget in all this, that it’s not so much Cesc wanting to leave Arsenal as much as it is Cesc wanting to go to Barca. Same difference you might say…..but in emotional terms, it’s a massive difference.

  27. Arsenal are pulling Cesc’s bluff. They want him to make a formal application to leave. If he doesn’t do that he stays. La Porta also doesn’t want to pay too much. With such an effective academy they don’t want to set a precedent whereby they’d have too pay good many for their former pupils. Sandro Rosell is probably scaring Cesc. It’s like Rosell is saying “When you are out you are out!” Makes Cesc appear like a traitor to the Catalan crowd. That’s alright by us – but not to Cesc as he probably considers himself very Catalan.

  28. A formal request from Cesc strengthens Arsenal’s hand in a counter-intuitive way. They will have to sell, but they do not have to sell to Barcelona.

    That would be the nuclear option. It’d take ruthlessness from Wenger.

    But then Cesc formally requesting to leave would be no less nuclear.

  29. very good post yogi

    And I whole-heartedly agree. If Cesc is an Arsenal player next season I will support him, because he is an Arsenal player. But he has done damage that can not be undone. I do not think he will be captain next season either way. He can’t be. Give Robin Van Persie the armband, or Gael Clichy, now there are two players that love this club.

    I hope Wenger tells Cesc, “look boy, they want you for HALF of the CASH they spent for that donkey Ibra, not to mention Samuel Eto”. That IS insulting. For a non proven striker they give 40 plus million and one of the best strikers in the world but they cant put their hand in their pocket for “one of their own” “their blood”?

    29 million….having a fucking GI-RAFFE.

  30. Cesc does not have to go to a club he doesn’t like. The onus is on Cesc. A bid from Mancity or Real Madrid would only provide nuisance relief. As Wenger has often said the players are very powerful today – Bosmann made sure of that. But more interesting is that if Cesc stays we’d probably have to pay him an extra 10 million pounds next season. He cost us 3 million this season and his value has certainly increased. Unfortunately Cesc has restricted value as he only has a choice of two – Us or Barca.

  31. Ole

    That won’t happen. Arsenal have never done business in that way. Always selling our top players discretely, and when we decided it was the right time.

    Cesc wouldn’t want to leave on a bad note as well, with Arsenal and Wenger.

    Theres only 1 way this will go:

    Barcelona pay up – which is a bit difficult now as Arsenal will not give in this summer – releasing the bold statement backs this up. So they will have to wait for Cesc another year at least.

    Cesc is staying, he never said he desired to leave, he played it diplomatically so he didn’t harm his own opportunities with the Spanish team and for a future move to Barca. He is under a lot of pressure, I don’t want to make excuses for him, but we will see the real Cesc when he returns from the World Cup.

  32. At the end of the day do we keep an unhappy player and have another Thierry Henry final season on our hands?.Because if Cesc doesnt go this summer he will next.We should take £45m for Barca,but SPEND the lot on 4-5 players.Especially a keeper

  33. We don’t have to sell to Barca. If Cesc doesn’t want to go to any other club he stays at Arsenal.

    We don’t want an unhappy player……that’s absolutely true, but he’d still be bound by the terms of his contract and his responsibility to his team mates.

  34. Cesc will not go to Real or Man City.. he’d rather play at Arsenal for 50k a week less. He loves Arsenal, but obviously his roots tie him to Barca very strongly, this will not go away.

    His Spanish team mates, and his family will make sure of this.

    One thing I am sure of is, Cesc will not dare to demand a transfer or go against Wenger, he would be playing a very dangerous game. Wenger was ruthless with Ade for his public spats, and he will be again. I don’t see Cesc taking this road in any way or form. He knows he has many years left at the top, and he was probably not in a rush to leave in the 1st place. He will be cheered next season, he will remain our captain despite the pressure from Barca.. then next year the price will be higher.

    Pay Up or Shut UP

  35. Hark

    We don’t need money, keep up to date.

  36. The most thoughtful and balanced article on the Cesc situation so far.

    Shame about the Cole shuttle!

  37. ChrisGoona

    I accept alot of what your saying, but would it have killed Cesc to just have said something along the lines of “I am happy at Arsenal and want to stay at Arsenal”? It would hurt nobody. On the contrary, it would certainly make the focus of discussion around here a lot brighter. Its a shame that we have are all discussing this sordid affair when there is so much to be possitive about next season.

    But it’s a big issue, and one that could have been avoided if Fabregas had the moral compass we all thought he had.

  38. I cannot imagine Wenger agreeing with cesc to let him leave this summer in their meeting and then release this statement.

    The catalan press saying he was furious when he heard of Arsenal’s statement is another bullshit talk from the Barca lobby.

    I am sure they have an understanding between them which is either:

    You will stay for another 1 or 2 season so that I can nurture your replacement and not be fucked.

    Or I will play hard ball for the transfer because if they really want you they are going to caught up and I don’t want to be seen as soft by the other club.

    Either way they have an understanding between them so if he stays he will play 100% for Arsenal, if he leaves it will be under Wenger’s terms which means Arsenal will be better off.

    Kenyan Gunner

    As for what he is going to cost us, he is not going to cost us more than this year because if he wants some bigger wage, cesc will have to sign another contract which is unlikely if he really wants to leave and if he does hold out for a bigger salary then Arenal can put a buy-out clause saying they want at least 80M.

    I believe Arsenal will not be fucked by those catalan pricks we have a strong hand and it is in Arsenal interest to play hard ball so that they get what they deserve for this transfer and for future ones.

  39. As much as many of our fans believe we are a selling club and we might as well let him go… the fact is this has never been the case.

    Hleb left – Nasri came in, arguably a better player, more goals to his game.

    Vieira left – Gilberto was there, Cesc came in, we cashed in on an ageing player

    Henry – we had Van Persie, and Henry had issues with his back, this is why he didn’t play much in his 1st season at Barca

    Pires – he wanted a longer contract, 1 player we can argue that should have stayed a bit longer

    Ljungberg – was finished

    Flamini – ran off for a payday

    Ashley Cole – wanted to be clubbin every night with Terry and co.. fucked his life up for the sake of a few medals too along the way

    Anelka – nowhere near achieved the potential he showed at Arsenal – flopping at various clubs

    Who else is there!!… Arsenal only sell when the time is right. We have more class than Barca can dream of and I don’t think Wenger could bare watching one of his prized assets go just yet.

  40. YW,

    “even though the remainder of his words made it clear he wants to leave.”

    Relistening to the press conference I don’t think he does make that clear.

    Does anyone have the transcript?

    My reading is that he’s trying to keep both doors open. He’s flirted with a move, dipped his toe in the water, but it’s not as clear-cut as ‘wanting away’ – he’s sensible enough to realise both clubs are set up for great success, he knows he’s playing at the top level already, and it need not be this season he goes to Barca.

    I think he’s a young man loving life, loving his football, and he’d be equally happy staying and doing something special with us, with his team, with his manager – but he’s also playing around with the idea of what is a potentially exciting ‘superstar’ move away.

    That is why he can genuinely leave it up to Arsene who he trusts to take into account the interests of club and individual, and be happy with the outcome either way.

    Cesc is a very laidback character. Perhaps not an ideal quality in a traditional club captain, but a quality that AW clearly recognises the merits of… as a calming influence in tense times perhaps, and a character trait typical of his generation. The way he’s dealt with this seems very laidback, ‘hasta manana, either way’. That shows a lack of respect to the fans, frankly… but not a lot else.

    What I’ve learnt is that Cesc is not quite the captain or Arsenal man I thought he was, and is in fact a little less mature than I thought he was. A sign of his immaturity for me is that he seems very passionate, but he does not seem to quite know what he is passionate about.

  41. Disappointing post

    Cesc has said he wanted to return to Barca, but never when he wanted to go.

    He has been put under enormous pressure by the Barca’s constant soliciting (they remind me of a wierd religious cult), the Spanish media, some of his family and friends. He is only 22, and it is a lot to put up with for someone at that still impressionable age.

    I don’t think he wants to leave Arsenal and in particular Wenger, at least not necessarily now. But he is being leaned on very heavily, so he is bound to be confused.

    I think he needs support from Arsenal fans even more.

  42. Gunnerluc remember the 10 million Henry cost us for one season? And he left anyhow! A want out player can be a disruptive influence. I have no bloody idea how much Cesc wants to leave. For all I know he might not mind being here for another couple of seasons. But if he really wants to go then I smell trouble. As Wenger often says mental strength matters most. You can’t have the mental strength if you are kept against your will!

  43. deano,

    If Cesc is unequivocal Barca would have no hand whatsoever. Again, if they’ve told him “it’s now or never” and he himself is sick of the endless soap opera, wanting it resolved either way, then equivocation can be a perfectly valid approach.

    We as Arsenal ans should never allow ourselves to forget that the club can sell the player, without originally intending to, in the face of a very good bid for him. Every player has his price.

    Cesc is not to know what his price to Arsenal is. He is frankly speaking not in a position to be categorical or unequivocal much as we find it hard to accept this.

  44. I don’t think Cesc will be in contract discussions just yet.. lol.. even to slap on a buy-out release, would be a bit of a slap in the face to us fans.

    The only way that will happen is if he came out and fully commited his playing career to Arsenal.. and told his hometown club to F-OFF.. which won’t happen anyway/

  45. ChrisGoona,

    I have a sneaky feeling that by the end of the Summer he’d have told either Arsenal or Barcelona to fuck off, and it’s not clear which it will be.

  46. Cesc never stated in his interview that he wa unhappy or wanted to leave.

    He was simply replied to bullying tactics and questions set out to stirr a fuss. When asked on his future, he only mentioned positives regarding Arsenal and how Wenger is in charge of his future, to distract the questions away from him. I imagine he done this to stop them hounding him, not ignite a move away. Barcelona think they have played it cleverly.. getting bits of information, fitting quotes together, getting their players on board, but it has backfired, Arsenal have not panicked, and we replied after the fire died down with a lot of class.

  47. Ole

    Me too, I cannot see Cesc returning with his mind on playing for Arsenal without committing. I suspect he will come back, state his love for our club (as he has no choice with Barca not living up to their desire to sign him)… and we will get the usual he is an Arsenal palyer, Arsenal captain.. and Barcelona can wait.

    He has no other option. His team mates and manager will be the only ones who really know how committed he really is. Cesc can give World Class performances with a broken leg, so need to worry about if he performs.

  48. Kenyan Gunner
    I agree but Henry signed a new contract to get those 10M and insure we get paid a respectable amount of money(26M€) for a player that in effect had 1 good season. Like yogi said the first year he had back problems, the next he was good and then this season he warmed the bench.

    Indeed Henry did sign this contract to have a bigger paycheck but we also got a bigger fee, remember least year Wenger offering 7M€ for Chamack because he had just 1 year left, if he had a longer contract he would have been double that value.

    I don’t see one transfer where Wenger got done (except maybe Diarra when we see how much Real has paid for him). This time is no different, if he does not accept this offer it is that there is a lot more to gain by holding out.

  49. Flint McCullough

    Arsenal’s statement is unequivocal, as you say YW

    “There was no room for manoeuvre in their words”.

    Would they have issued it without consulting Cesc? I would doubt it.

    That should be an end to the matter but we all know this will rumble on. The only thing that can stop it will be a statement from Cesc saying he is happy & prepared to honour his contract.

    Having seen the one more seasons of Liam Brady & TH14, I am not keen on that option. There is something missing.

    So if Cesc really wants to go, I would rather we pocket the full value, £50/60m+, & get on with it, even if it puts us back a season of development.

    However, that doesn’t look likely because I don’t see us backing down from that statement, which is as strongly worded as I can remember from Arsenal.

  50. Flint

    You are basing Cesc’s future performances on his desire to leave.. which he has had for several years. He has always admitted he wanted to return to Barca, this summer is no different, I expect him to return and keep playing to 100%. The meda may want us all to believe he wants out, so they get a summer of mayhem, as Arsenal fans we should know better.

    Like I said, Cesc will return and reaffirm is commitment, we will not ever know if he truly desired to manufacture a move.

  51. So it is the “pull” factor more than the “push” factor?

  52. I personally wouldn’t give a f*ck for this assiduously built trust that evaporates overnight before anything has happened. Fabregas ought to consider who his friends are: not the c**** from the Barcelona team, and certainly not Arsenal fans. I’m thinking of Arsene Wenger. To his credit, he seems to have done just that.

  53. Poliziano

    Exactly, despite all the pressure.. he has left his trust with Wenger. Not Barcelona. If Wenger says you ain’t going, he can’t argue. I seriously doubt he approached Wenger demanding to be sold anyway, would be professional suicide and he would be prostituted to all clubs. Obviously he had talks with Wenger regarding his future, and obviously he must have mentioned his desire to play for Barca sometime.

  54. If Arsenal succeed in keeping him it should not be too difficult for Cesc to come back and say;

    “The club have shown me how much I am respected and valued here. It has been a very reassuring Summer for me, and more than ever, the club is ready to challenge and I want to be a part of it. This club made me, much as I owe a lot to my early coaches at the Barcelona academy. This is my club, I am excited and ready to fight for all honours this season”.

    End of story. By then a new transfer saga might even have overtaken this one…..

    Even Frank will forgive and even forget, and we’ll be marching onwards as ever.

  55. seen this type of statement from the club many times. With season ticket renewal deadline day coinciding with the opening of the transfer window what could they say? “oh yes £29m for our 22 year old captain and best player, that sounds like a marvellous deal thank you when can he sign?” Of course not, with many fans still undecided about renewing, they have come out with a statement that will make the potential new president of Barca want to really up the ante. The club now know the minimum price and can start planning for his replacement, the talks will start as soon as we get an acceptable offer. That will be either a player or 2 plus cash or a cash bid large enough to provide Wenger with the Transfer budget he needs to buy the players he wants. If Yaya, Chryginsky and Guillan were offered with a bit of cash as well, then this deal will go through and will be a good deal for everyone. It will be embarrassing and almost oppressive if we force a person to continue to work for a company in a country where he no longer wishes to work. Wenger will not do that to a young player and quite frankly our club has more class than that. There are people all over the world being forced into working in places that they do not want to work in, Cesc has decided that his first choice place to work is Barca and his 2nd choice would be Arsenal, i am certain the club will allow him his choice as soon as Barca come up with right offer.

  56. Flint McCullough

    What I mean, Chris, is that he either wants to play for us or he doesn’t.

    So he plays for us for the length of his contract or the time that he & the club mutually decide to part company.

    He is a good pro & will give his all, as did Liam & Thierry, but there is no doubt that extra something is just not there in these, I will not be here next year, situations.

  57. I dont know if this was mentioned yesterday or earlier today (I haven’t read all the responses) but did you hear the piece on Talksh*t yesterday from their resident (one of many) Arsenal basher, our very own Mr. Ian Wright! – Apparently he is embarrassed by Arsenals refusal to let him go for £30 million.

    According to Mr not so Wright Wright Wright we owe Barcelona the right to let him go, and that our refusal to keep the layer only shows signs of weakness and that…..and this is the bset bit, he predicts its the end of Arsenal and only bad times are coming.

    Methinks to give Wrighty his wish we should sell Cesc, throw in RVP, possibly let them have first refusal on every other player as well and pay Barcelona for the privilege!!!

    Grrrrrrrr – Wrighty has really sunk low this time with his anti Arseanl comments!

    You can hear all this drivel on http://www.talksport.net and follow the links to his peice…

  58. That’s nonsense bc. We won’t be forcing him to stay we are only insisting we don’t lose him and also lose the value of his services to us.

    If he’s desperate to leave, then he really has to be making it very clear to Barca that they have to come up with the goods, AND of course that’d be after he himself would have internalised that fact.

  59. Very harsh on Cesc Yogi.

    I hope he stays and this saga will not have damaged his standing at the club in the slightest in my eyes.

    If he stays and the fans give him the same treatment as Ade it will make a move far more likely and for a lower price in the future. It would be the essence of shit fickle support.

    Any sane gooner must want Cesc to stay and hope that we win enough next year to keep him well into the future.

    It cannot be denied that to go home, play for a top quality team full of your friends is a tempting offer and it is silly to think that he should never have let that fact escape into public.

    He still has never said that he wants to leave. Never, untill he does peopel should lay off.

  60. The purchase of David Villa was done with indecent haste.

  61. bc

    No chance, you seruiously think Arsenal will sale after that statement! Many fans would turn on the club instantly.. the faith lost would be hard to install back into the fans. Our club aint that stupid mate

  62. Well played Gazzidis.

    Just the response hoped for. A polite but firm, “go fuck yourself prick”

  63. Furious Styles

    The fact that Cesc hasnt come out and categorically denied his wish for a move to barca this summer should not be interpreted as anything else than a wink-wink towards barcelona. That much is obvious I reckon.

    That said, I don’t really care. If he goes he goes, we get a shitload of money, or he stays and plays his heart out like the professional we know he is.

  64. Wright has never been right since he left! Was obviously dissapointed at being ditched by Wenger so early. I have fond memories of Ian Wright as a player, was my favourite player too when I was growing up but I think all Arsenal fans should ignore the drizzle that comes out his mouth. Any player that goes on to do talk shows, friday night shows, has other intentions in mind, and not the club they love.

  65. Great post Yogi. Two very important points which means Cesc will be here next season unless HE puts the club under pressure.
    1) This is an obsession of Laporta . . . the man who let Cesc go and wants him back before he goes.
    2) Arsenal’s statement leaves no room for manouvere price wise.
    The one thing we are all unsure of here is Cesc’s state of mind. That is what will determines what will happen. No more “Arsenal will decide my future!”.

  66. Just read that back and its riddled with poor spelling……Must do better!

    Oh and it was Cesc Wrighty was talking about, just in case anyone thought it was Almunia… 🙂

  67. Ian Wright offering further proof that regardless how good you were at football, there’s a good chance you could also be a massive fucking moron.

  68. CG wrighty was the king.

    What’s the story with Sol to Celtic? I really think we need sol more than he needs us.

    How did the faxing go?

  69. Wright after leaving Arsenal…

    In July 1998, Wright moved to West Ham United for £500,000; he spent fifteen months as a West Ham player without reaching the same form he had at Arsenal. During his spell there he made the headlines for all the wrong reasons when he vandalised the referee’s dressing room at Upton Park after being sent off during a match against Leeds United.

    seems a bit pissed off!

  70. Fabregas is not thinkin abt his transfer options right now.He just wants to excel for spain.
    I do thnk sain will be unbeatable.Here is my view abt the spaniards.
    http://manutd1.wordpress.com/2010/06/03/scintillating-spain-can-sabre-rattle-any-defence/

  71. ole

    I agree then, that Cesc MUST make a statement reaffirming his loyalty to Arsenal before the new campaign begins.

    You refered to the John Terry- Captain, Leader,Legend transfer saga earlier on and he absolved himself with a “it was only ever Chelsea” statement that put him at evens with the fans….despite the fact that he quite clearly batted his piggy lashes in Citeh’s direction.( I suppose it was only ever Toni Poole)

    I admire the poster’s on here that maintain it is not definate that Cesc has tried to engineer a move away. I am jelous of them. Because it’s not nice to feel let down by the captain of the team you support.

    For me unfortunatley, I feel 99% certain that Cesc tried to get a move away this season too many factors affirm it.

    But should Cesc re-affirm his love and commitment for Arsenal verbaly and officialy then he can undo at least some of the damage.

    Personaly though I think the captaincy should be reserved for somebody who dosent consider Arsenal to be anything less than the top rung on the ladder.

  72. Good points arsenehollis. This Cesc situation is very different from Adebayor’s and fans should recognise that. Cesc is our most influential player and I very much hope he stays at least another year. I’m sure AW will do all in his power to keep him. One cannot rule out a silly money offer from Barca but I hope AFC turns that down too. We don’t need the money, certainly not as much as we need a consistency in the team.

  73. Certainly all this is very distracting for Cesc who should focus on WC2010 than what the clubs are saying and how the media are interpreting, analysing and distorting facts to promote their media. The best approach for Cesc would be to maintain a dignified silence and keep his options open till the World Cup competition is over.

    He has a good contract which can definitely be improved if he chooses to commit himself to Arsenal.

  74. els

    I hope Wenger sorts out a defender or 2 before the World Cup. Sol needs to hurry up and sign!

  75. Seems to me that the club response was simple and logical. If we want the highest price and perhaps need some time to ensure that the squad can cope and/or find some sort of replacement then this was the only reponse possible. Well done, Arsenal.

    Barcelona Borough now need to decide how badly they want or need the player. I am not sure they have the balls or the money for this.

    This is where I see Cesc having a real problem. He could be left with a disillusioned Arsenal and at the same time feel disillusioned by Barcelona Town’s response….silly boy.

  76. deano

    I know what you mean regarding the captaincy.

    Assuming Cesc comes back and commits to us for the time-being. Taking the captaincy away from him will be counter productive, I can’t see it happening. It shows to all us fans Cesc isn’t 100% commited, and will fuel the speculation even further. Arsenal will play it smart, Arsene will tell Cesc to concentrate on your football, you are captain so be the captain, and the time will come to go Barcelona when they really want you. Removing the captaincy will damage Cesc’s image, this will only happen if he pisses Wenger off. (E.g. Gallas.)

  77. Cesc likes Arsenal as a girlfriend but wants Barcelona as his wife

  78. Arsenal don’t want to sell as it clearly would be better off with Cesc than the money.

    So what if Cesc tried to get a move, unlike on the pitch, he didn’t try very hard.

    It is very harsh to turn on previously brilliant player who has ALWAYS said the right thing for exploring the possibility of a transfer.

    If Barcelona had behaved less like unclean cunts, then this whole saga would have seemed like just what it is:

    Cesc said he wanted to go privately to Wenger and then accepted being told, “no, we need you this year, we are too close to the title right now.”

    Barca made a bid, we said very clearly, for all our fans to read, “no, go do one, we wont even discuss it”.

    Until cesc breaks with that and goes public to try and force a move, there is no story.

    It is terribly pessimistic and very unfair on our captain that people would presume he is planning that, himself or through his father. Show some faith and a bit of spine, this is our club captain, not some twerp ‘doomer’ who doesn’t match up to ACLF standards of belligerence.

  79. wenger y can you put fab on sell he think he is agreat player,let him go if he is a good player why did barca sell him to arsenal ithink he has something wrong he need to see doctor.

  80. @dupsffokcuf

    “(I posted this on previous blog)

    Maria, I was reading the comments on the link you posted and this one I failed to understand.

    As long as he can play in goal, he wont sign

    From our old friend, gooner2.”

    ..Funny as it may seem, but I think our old friend was actucally trying a spot of sarcasm…AFC is desperate for a new goal-keeper…and as usual AW is being stubborn and will not yield to the demands of his better informed “fans”…

  81. I think Frank has summed the whole thing up. Nothing more can be said so let’s all talk about something else. Perlease.

  82. i agree with steww

  83. Yep lets move on, this saga is finished for this summer.

  84. loveley weather we’re having

  85. hmmm yes, anybody got anything nice planned for the weekend?

  86. On Spain, I have heard that the man that made the difference in the Euros, Senna, didnot make the cut. I do wonder how they will cope in the midfield when they incounter more physically robust teams. I can’t wait for this world cup to start!!

  87. I am going to Denmark in a minute…and then Sweden.

  88. Teams that I will not be able to miss a game of…

    Brazil
    Spain
    Holland
    Argentina

    Would like to watch every game in all honesty.. but these teams will put on a show.

    Then theres:

    France
    England

    …who I feel obliged to watch!

  89. lol….at France…me too…for some reason I have really adopted them as my second team!!

    My teams this summer are:

    All the African nations since it’s the continents first world cup. Especially Cameroon and the Ivory Coast.

    France

    Brazil

    Holland

    And Mexico ofcause!!

  90. Nice Frank, sourcing the finest Nordic veg for your stall?

    CG my list is…

    Spain
    Holland
    Mexico
    Ivory Coast
    Nigeria

    Can’t get away with Brazil or Argi I admire the flow of the football but the players themselves tend to infuriate me (bit of a sweeping statement that).

    England I still love to watch but you have to cheer patriasm over footballing style.

    Anybody have thoughts on golden boot, im going to be less than shocked if RvP gets it.

  91. Thing is Brazil and France will be no-where near as exciting as they should be with all that talent on show. Average management.

    I too will feel obliged to watch England…I think its sado-masachistic.

    Im thinking Hyde park a ball and beer for the weekend….then I might go to japan, turkey, zimbabwe and then stop off at barca to make sure they got the faxes…

  92. els

    I will be keeping an eye on Mexico, and of course Nikki B for Denmark.. theres a few goals in this tourney for him.

    I hope Van Persie gets the Golden Boot or lifts the Cup, at least he will have something memorable to look back on this season. I think all Arsenal fans would be thrilled for him too. Its amazing to think Holland have never won it!

  93. Holland are looking superb too. I wouldnt be surprised I tell thee.

  94. I have heard the a country to look out for this WC is Chile. With the uninspiring stuff of this season out of the way, I won’t mind a surpise team making it to the latter stages, especially if they get there by playing attractive football.

    I have officially dropped those Spainish c***s, since it seems their national team is made up of cheating **** that do the dirty bidding of their superiors…!!!

    Oh and from what I saw of Brazil under Dunga they may win the WC but light it up with some samba…nah

  95. we will be keeping cesc for 1 or 2 years at least.

    A LOT can happen in football in a year let alone 2.

    We could have fully comr into bloom and won the treble by then and jose could have humiliated barca…

    I have no doubt that cesc will give his all next year like a true pro – I will not let barca influence my opinion of a man with impeccible character.

  96. This is a pretty cool World Cup calendar… if cool is the right word for such a thing.

    It is on the Marca website. But if you don’t click on anything you don’t have to suffer any of their bullshit and you can just pretend it’s not.

    http://www.marca.com/deporte/futbol/mundial/sudafrica-2010/calendario-english.html

  97. Song’s Cameroon, and Nigeria could prove to be tough opposition. Then theres Ghana and Ivory Coast who have a few very good players.

    Would be amazing for an African team to win it! Physically they have what it takes, though technically the likes of Spain and Argentina may prove too much… will be some interesting games.

    Most of all I want Holland to win it, this stems back from following Bergkamp, Overmars, and watching the likes of Seedorf and Davids.. was an exceptional team.

  98. Spain were my favourites for the last World Cup.. going out to France I believe. The Arsenal vs Barca ties, seeing how often their players cheat and dive, and the recent media tapping up of Cesc has really forced me to hope they go out.

    I hope Spain go back to being the underachievers that they deservedly are.

  99. oh sorry we have moved on…

    Predictions:

    France/England vs Argentina/Germany
    VS
    Holland/Brazil vs Paraguay/Spain

    will be betting on group stage first placers so any input here woul dbe useful

  100. I think paraguay are going to do well

  101. Hmm. So you have Paraguay to top Group F? Decent odds on that I’m sure. Personally I’d say even though the Italy squad looks a little toothless… I see their defence trumping Paraguay’s attack in that group.

  102. Mexico, France from Group A

    Argentina, Nigeria Group B

    USA (1st) England (2nd) from C

    Germany & Ghana from D

    Holland, Denmark, Cameroon – hard to pick 2! E

    Paraguay, Italy – as much as I want Italy out. F

    Brazil, Ivory Coast – Portugal going out. G

    Spain, Chile. H

  103. “Spain were my favourites for the last World Cup.. going out to France I believe. The Arsenal vs Barca ties, seeing how often their players cheat and dive, and the recent media tapping up of Cesc has really forced me to hope they go out.

    I hope Spain go back to being the underachievers that they deservedly are.”

    I agree wholehearty…I hope they get chucked out of the WC by, New Zealand or North Korea!!

  104. Still wondering how on earth they won the last World Cup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  105. Maria

    That would be extremely embarassing, some reason I have a feeling South Africa will make it through past the group stages. With such a great support it could spur them on. Like Korea in 2002

  106. goal.com can literally go fuck itself. Everything it’s ever published is either regurgitated bullshit, or in the case of an ‘exclusive’, bullshit they just made up themselves.

    May as well be called fuckinglyingwankers.com

    How can I take my hit back? Cunts. Never again.

  107. I sense you are unhappy LA.

  108. I was angry for all of 10 seconds. I’m thinking lovely summery thoughts again now though, so it’s all ok. Should really have held fire before broadcasting the name of the… scummy pack of liars, but still.

  109. Limpar

    what have thy said again?

    My teams for the WC are as I am both English and French.

    France and England

    will be looking at Netherland as they have really good footballers

    Ivory Coast and Cameroun for the african ones
    Ghana are missing Essien who is the heart of the team, Algeria I don’t think will be able to do it.

    And Argentina even though I think Maradonna will be good if his team is winning but I don’t think he will have the experience to make the right changes if his team is struggling or losing.

  110. Oh! goal will make up some more shit anyways. Thats all they are good for. Legal Action my black backside.

  111. I used to be like spain but after everything that happened, I hope they’ll get their arse kicked and will not go out of their group!
    Come on Chile, Come on Switzerland! Beat thos arrogant spaniards!

  112. well i have sold my soul, backing italy to knock spain out in the quarter-finals.

  113. Seems Eduardo is leaving according to this picture on the BBC.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science_and_environment/10197470.stm

  114. MY PREDOS…

    RVP FOR THE GOLDEN BOOT

    HOLLAND FOR THE CUP
    SPAIN/NIGERIA SECOND
    NIGERIA/SPAIN THIRD
    BRAZIL/FRANCE 4TH

  115. dupsffokcuf

    Hes already been gone for 18months!!

    Really hope he can come back to some sort of form next season… if given the chance.

  116. Team Spirit

    Spain Vs Holland Final will be something special.

    Cesc Vs Van Persie!

    I think Argentina will be there though personally, I can see Spain getting beat by a more physical team in the quarters or semis

  117. I’ll go with Ole and Hollis on this one. Can we just forgive and forget when Fabrigas stays? If he leaves let’s sell him for top dough and milk the barca d!ck’s for all cesc is worth.

    Maria I also dropped spain from my fave teams since they are made up of many barca brats.Any team that has an Arsenal player , I will pay close attention to. plus all the other usual suspects (Argentina/Brazil) and Ghana who have been playing some really inspiring footy starting from their under 20s.

  118. Spain to win the world cup.When Cesc is not even a certain starter that tells you something

    Brazil have a great keeper and defence for a change

    Holland will self-destruct as usual

    England will lose on pens in the last 16 or QF

    Dark horses.Never write off the Germany.They play shit but win

  119. I hope Holland win. Not just for Van Persie, they have a nice blend of players, and play some really good football. They have neve done it also

  120. LimparAssist

    Ha! Nice try, North Korea. Very nice. It worked for Luis Chilavert.

  121. How is that legendary defence of theirs though, Chris?

  122. yea Fuck spain, I was really happy when they won the euro cup. but to see them undeachieve again will be great.
    If he can go throught this world cup with out getting injured then RVP for the golden boot. If he cant then I really fear he will become another Micheal Owen. Great player who was allways injured and never got to live to thier potential.
    I really hope not.

  123. LimparAssist

    Germany have one of the toughest groups and they’re in the toughest side of thr draw. They will be pushed by Serbia and Ghana. They will then need to beat Argentina, then Spain, then Holland or Brazil in the final. All without Ballack and Westermann. Don’t see it myself.

  124. Van Persie
    Schneider
    Robben
    Van Der Vart
    de Jong
    van Bommel
    Ryan Babel
    Kuyt
    Heitinga
    Stekelenburg
    Giovanni van Bronckhorst
    Afellay

  125. Maria

    Brazil, Argentina have never been known for having a good defence.. yet they are 2 of the most successful teams in World Cup history.

    The best attack can win it, combined with strength, team work, technical ability and discipline. Holland can do it.

  126. Limpar you can never write off zee germans

  127. That maybe true but have Holland managed with the same system? And do they have that discipline on and off the pitch? The last Euros exposed as to the good and the damn right ugly that Holland could produce.

  128. LimparAssist

    *writes off zee Germans*

    No… you’re probably right, ZULU. Certainly looking forward to seeing Mesut Özil play, in any case.

  129. If Inter can win the Champs League, and Italy the last World Cup… theres probably a group of about 8-10 teams who have a realistic chance.

    -France
    -Argentina
    -Spain
    -Brazil
    -Holland
    -Italy
    -Germany
    -England
    -then theres some strong African and other South American teams who can pull off a shock

    Obviously some teams are a lot stronger, but even England has a shot. An in form Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Joe Cole… and if the team gels together it could be our year. Every team has a chance, I just fancy Holland this time.

  130. Cant bloody wait… arrrrrrrrgghhhhhhh… 8 days!!!

  131. Holland, Ghana, England in that order for me. Horses fed and watered. Plane to catch.

  132. Does anyone else see tis as being a weak brazil side this year? I know I know, they are brazil but when I see the midfield of melo, g.silva elano, baptista (and kaka and robinho…) it doesn’t really impress me much. doubtless they have players I haven’t heard of which are ridiculous but I just have a feeling they might struggle. Fabiano is good but not that good…

    so if england come 2nd in the group which I agree is quite likely I can tell you quite safely that…

    SAT JUNE 26TH 21:15 – ENGLAND KNOCKED OUT OF WC

    you heard it here first

  133. Would Barca really pay $50mil+ for a midfielder who is unlikely to be in their first 11?

    Fabregas may well be in the top 3 creative midfielders in the world, but the other 2 are already at Barca.

    He will be greater value to them in the future as Xavi & Iniesta drop off and Fabregas continues to improve. They have tested the waters and know where everyone stands.

  134. LimparAssist

    Yes, they know where Arsenal stands… on the cusp of greatness, turning briefly back to flip double Vs at the bastards of Barcelona.

  135. Is anyone else joining the Metro dream team comp that word set up?

    ACLF (8003629)

  136. Great post Yogi:

    Love the Mark Schwarzer rumours.

    1) Has been excellent in goal for 2 years with Fulham. Excellent on their shock 2nd place European cup finish.
    2) Absolutely superb in goal for Australia during the world cup run in.
    3) Good age to hold the shirt for a couple yrs until Sczczesny is ready
    4) No EPL break in period needed.
    5) Relatively inexpensive.
    6) Lots of similarities to EVDS.

    My first choice would be for AW to make a real “statement of intent” by bringing in Buffon or Reina. I am very sure that RVP, TV5 and probably CF4 and the rest of our team would jump for joy if that happened. However, I doubt we will go that route and if we do not then Schwarzer would be a excellent alternative.

  137. I have 25 quid on RVP for top goal scorer each way

    he wins – I win 550

    he places 5th or above – I win 100 or so

    now thats what i call win win!

  138. yes the league could do with some extra numbers please join:

    **********************************
    http://fantasyfootball.metro.co.uk/worldcup
    ACLF (8003629)
    **********************************

  139. LimparAssist

    Cue topscorer chart of:

    1) Luis Fabiano
    2) David Villa
    3) Higuain
    4) Rooney
    5) Forlan/Bendtner/Klose

  140. Bill,

    Edwin Van Der Saar had won the European Cup, various leagues, been distinguished at international level and played for various top European clubs.

    I see NO similarity between him and Schwarzer, most of all in terms of ability.

  141. Van Persie for the golden boot!

  142. Nobody seems to be talking about Argentina and in particular Messi much in the lead up to this WC. I know he is a diving little prick but he is also one of the best players in the world at the moment. Surely that gives the Argies some kind of chance?

  143. guess you wont be taking that bet then LA!

    No way is NB getting more than RVP in the same group unless of course you are worried about the (shhh) potential injury

  144. I can imagine the gaffer will be happy to take his mind off such scurrilous Cescy business, and get down to some serious scouting over the WC.

    The last time AW went off to an international tournament, he came back with AA, via a tedious, and eventually amusing haggle.

    (That’s how you do it BarceloNO…)

  145. its scary that italy and inter are both the current benchmarks for negative football and winning big tournaments….

  146. The price Barca have payed for an older Villa speaks volumes.

    As far as Brazil is concerned, the flash may be less but the intent now has an emphasis on win as opposed to wow.

    My pick for the world cup is the Netherlands because I like their balance. They are the only team that seems to have a solid plan B.

  147. My predictions are:

    Champions: Holland or Argentina
    England: Quarter Final fail
    Outsiders: Serbia/Chile
    Golden boot: Van Persie
    Golden Ball: Messi/Sneijder/Villa

  148. I think this will go on all summer but I really believe Cesc is with us next year. Clearly he would rather go but I hope he is not really desperate for a move. I am sure he realizes his importance to us. He is the poster child and talisman for all that the team has worked for over the last 5 years. Losing him would be major step backward for what this team has been trying to build. Losing him for anything less then a block buster deal would also add more fuel to the media fire regarding us as a “feeder club” for the bigger fish.

    I believe he will stay for 1 more year and I also believe he will play as hard as ever. He may even play harder for the fans and for Wenger and his team mates. He is not Ade. I will support him and scream just as much when he scores goals for us next year. It will be a lot easier mentally on the club if everyone knows that he probably be leaving at the end of next season. It will also give the club time to make the personnel moves that will soften the impact of his leaving.

    Lets hope he stays at least one more year and may be if add a few defenders and a good GK and win the title may be he will stay for much longer.

  149. Ole Gunner – well I’m glad someone agrees with me that the Argies have a good chance with Messi et al. I like you’re predictions and have a sneaking suspicion that an African team will make the Quarter Final, probably The Ivory Coast.

  150. I don’t know whether exactly Barcelona’s plans will change but Sandro Roswell is leading the candidacy charge at Barca and his stance is that the club debts can’t continue to rise.

    Will he put off signing Fabregas if elected? (the new president is chosen on 13th June).

    Guardiola would still want him however…

  151. My predictions are:

    Champions: England
    Golden Boot: Heskey
    Golden Ball: Lennon

    Too much quality in the England team, I couldn’t resist!

  152. Ole:

    OK so maybe the similarity with EVDS are not really that striking. Still think Schwarzer would be a great pick up if we do not go the Buffon/LLoris route.

    Schwarzer has done really well for an EPL club and his country the last 2 years and I do not see many better options short of Buffon and I think Buffon is not a realistic option.

  153. LimparAssist

    Nah. Only joking. I went for RVP too, when it was at the ridiculous price of 66/1.

    Champions: Holland or Brazil
    England: Round of 16 fail
    Outsiders: Serbia/Chile/Denmark
    Golden boot: Van Persie
    Golden Ball: Messi/Maicon/Lucio

    Thanks for the nature trail tip yesterday, Finsbury. So I join it just up from Arsenal tube and come out somewhere near Finsbury Park tube…? El Commandante seems too fitting a pub to pass up. Don’t see Rage playing Camden Underworld again – an ‘I was there moment’ to be proud of.

  154. The Brain,

    I heard Guardiola is not desperate to have Cesc and has other priorities. He actually prefers Silva, Robben or Mata I heard in Spain.

  155. Bill,

    I think he’s been a pretty average keeper actually. But I get it. You like him, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

  156. Matty Boy,

    Argentina have a quality quality squad…..

    And they have a good path to the finals. By my calculation, the hardest team in their path will be Spain and that won’t be until the semis….

  157. Good day ACLFers, I see the chat has moved from Barca to the World Cup. Good, it’s been a bit tedious.

    My thoughts on the WC, Brazil will win again, they’re just too powerful. I’m not just looking at their attacking ability, but the a monstrous in defence.

    You have to wonder who’s going to be able to breach their backline.

    Although I have money on RVP for golden boot, I fear Holland may struggle in the quarter final. Unlike Brazil who complements the attack with a stingy defence, the Dutch are really suspect at the back.

    I like Chile as an outsider, a real attacking side. However the main thrust of that attack (Suazo) picked up an injury against Israel on Sunday.

  158. Love to see Holland win. If they defend well they have a real chance. Suspect that this will be a low scoring defense dominated WC.

    England and USA will fail in round of 16. Not even sure USA will make it that far.

    Lost respect for Spain with the whole Cesc thing but they are still probably the most technically gifted team so not discounting them.

    Winner will be Holland, Spain or Brazil. all can score, whichever defends the best will win. Argentina could make a run but doubt their mental strength. No respect for Maradonna as a coach.

  159. Argentina against Spain has the potential to be an absolute classic, i really hope it happens.

  160. Argentina vs. Spain?

    Can’t wait.

    Limpar:
    The forecast is good. Could be one of the better outdoor gigs in London this summer.
    Just remember, earplugs!

  161. I mean, I saw Plastikman the other week.
    And I’m glad I wore some plugs…
    some of these concerts can be dangerous!

    Not quite the same off Youtube: music made by and for computers, needs decent quality compression,
    & a 300KW rig can help.

  162. 66-1 you bastard!

  163. Not too sure about Brazil and this WC. If Zimbabwe we’re a little bit more technical they might have actually demolished Brazil. Could have been complacency, but the Zims had some very decent opportunities.

    I would like France to win it, but Raymond’s an idiot.

    Come on North Korea! Do a 1966 again!!

    Come on South Korea! Do a 2002 again!!

    I want Holland to win with RVP remaining injury-free.

  164. Good as usual, YW. However:

    “but given that he has apparently or wilfully misinterpreted the initial chat, it seems pointless. He has to force the issue if he wants to leave.”

    I don’t think the club would have worded so strong a rebuff, and a refusal to renegotiate, had they not been certain that Cesc understood he wouldn’t be able to leave for pennies. I suspect he is privvy to Arsenal’s intentions, and that there was more to the now famed conversation between him and AW than the media would have you beleive (or are they tapping AW’s phone/office?). His answere at the press conference the other week was interpreted in some quarters as a lovingly good bye. To me, it was more “I won’t leave Arsenal just like that. They are too important to me to treat them that way”.

    Cesc acted twice his age at 17. He’s grown since then, and does not seem like the kind that will throw his toys out of the pram in order to force a move. I could be wrong, but I suspect I’m not. As for Arsenal, there’s no need to make your best player an enemy even if it may be understod he actually will go sooner rather than later.

  165. “he would not be leaving if we won trophys”. WHY not? Ronaldo won trophys yet when RM came he went straight away. He won alot with United, yet went anyway. I think Trophies does matter, but that is not all of it. He says he will not go to RM and if you want trophies next year that is the club to be with. Murinho will win everything next year with Real. They will crush Barca, we all know it. Once mony gets a brain its just an unbeatable combination.

    So if he wants trophies and that is the only reason he leves, like many claim, he would not go for barca i think. Cos they cant guarantee shit next year. There must be other stuff too….

  166. Maybe Barca will leave Cesc for now and make an easier bid for javier mascherano.

  167. Finsbury:
    “The last time AW went off to an international tournament, he came back with AA, via a tedious, and eventually amusing haggle.

    (That’s how you do it BarceloNO…)”

    I don’t think I’d like the Cesc drama to proceed anything like our chase of Arshavin. Fine we didn’t stir up shit like Barca are doing, but that fact doesn’t change the fact that it was a long drawn out and very public affair which would have been terrible for the Zenith fans, I imagine.

  168. Henristic, it’s not like we made it public, that was all down to Zenit and Arshavin’s mouthy agent.

  169. Henristic.

    Zenith chose to make that negotiation public, in a botched attempt to get a ‘better price’.

    BarceloNO chose to pursue a public negotiation strategy. That did not begin this summer.

    If Zenith, or BarceloNO, or Bordeux, shoot themselves in the foot, it’s not AFC’s responsibility.

  170. Silver Gunner

    In my opinion since liverpool are broke as we can all expect a mass exodus with Macherano, Gerrard and Torres joing Rafa in the exit revolving door.

    Barca will go for Macherano leaving Cesc to stay that is if like we assume Yaya doen in fact leave.

  171. I still think Barca are the ones we should be directing our anger at not Cesc. Or maybe divide it %90 Barca %10 Cesc.

    When Barca tells Cesc we want you to join us through their players and the media, what do you expect him to say? No sorry, I don’t want to join Barca? No player in the world would ever say that, let alone a player who was born there.

    He was absolutely right when he said, it’s in Arsenal and Arsene’s hand. The club controls what will happen because they have the upper hand. What if the club wants to sell him and he didn’t want to go? Like when Ade claimed Arsene sold him for the money, he didn’t want to leave.

    What I expect from Cesc very soon is to come out and say “Arsenal made their choice, and I have to respect that, I’m still an Arsenal player.” and end this Catalonian Circus at least till next season.

  172. Yeah, but my point remains that I’d prefer if this Cesc thing doesn’t proceed like the AA transfer.

    Anyways, I rarely get my wish so, there.

  173. Cesc, is a player under contract to Arsenal who gets paid well, he is then responsible even more so that Barca for what is taking place, why? because he signed a contract to play for Arsenal until 2015. The his answers to the media give me no feeling as if he wants to stay at Arsenal, hence I want my future worked out before teh World Cup?! again, contracted to play for Arsenal. Diplomatic answers some would say, that mean he knows what he is doing.

    I dont like Barca and have lost any respect I had for them but something must have been said for them to behave with such disrespect.

    Again, this doesnt mean throw him under the bus but I dont see why so many are handling him with baby gloves.

    Its obvious that loyalty is out the window in sports so I have made up my mind not to be upset if a player decides to bounce.

  174. Yogi, nicely summarised.

    I have a feeling that this summer, many a Gunner would have been cured of the Barca love in bug.

    Wonder who most of us would have wanted to win if The Inter v Barca match happened right now!

  175. Inter v Barca – is like – Man U v Chleski. You want both to lose.

  176. On a different note, I can’t believe how football365 are covering the world cup. You would almost think that there is only one team in it, England.

  177. Teams I would be rooting for in the World Cup –

    Holland obviously, then any African team, and then France. My home country is not there, and is light years away from being there.

  178. Paul N,

    What’s wrong with him wanting his future resolved quickly?

  179. Its like any first offer, its always refused. Unfortunately i would bet my house that cesc will not play for us next season. I hopr we sign Joe Cole he’d be great

  180. Webster,

    First offers don’t usually get a response that amounts to “Fuck you and Fuck off” followed by “And don’t come back”…

  181. Ole – I think Cesc is intelligent enough to understand that Barca will come up with an offer much much below Arsenal’s valuation. So, saying that he wants his future sorted out quickly means that he wants Arsenal to accept a cheap price for him so that he can concentrate on playing in the world cup. From Cesc’s point of view that is not wrong, but from Arsenal’s point of view that is.

  182. By the way, everyone’s favourite world cup team Spain is drawing 0-0 with South Korea till the 85th minute.

  183. Vela’s scored against the Italians.

  184. Ole, a contract he signed to 2015 is his future, is it not? When 2015 comes, he can go to Barca.

    In what twisted world do people sign contract extensions and that same year talk about future regarding another club?

    Come on now, dont embarass me like this!

  185. Paul N,

    You mean it’s impossible that Arsenal would accept a bid for him? He knew Barca were going to bid for him…..by all means he knew that was coming. So his future was unsettled until Arsenal rejected such a bid.

    keysersoze,

    How could he possibly know how much would be bid and what Arsenal would accept. You really think he could know that? Do you think Barca know how much Arsenal would accept for sure? Do you think Arsenal knew for sure how much Barca would bid?

  186. He would have known that Barca had spent 34 million on Villa, and spent crazy money on Ibrahimovich last summer, which, given their balance sheet and the economic condition prevailing would make it diffuclt for them to match Arsenal’s valuation.

    That is why I said that he is intelling enough to know.

  187. That would be intelligent

  188. Ole gunner of course he knew what they bid, Gaurdiola’s one of his close freinds and they’ve probably been speaking alot recently.

  189. LOL Paul N. We all know football contracts means nothing. All it does is state the player rights, wages, bonuses, and gives the club a better position when the time comes for a move.

    You give me more money, and I will give you more years.

    If course the club can say we won’t let you go, but has to deal with the media, the disgruntled player, and the bad publicity that will come with such action. Especially if the player is a well known player with a great talent.

  190. And even if he is not, there are agents who have a job to tell their clients about such things. i am sure Cesc’s agent would not have missed such important details.

  191. The depressing thing is that Cescs team is barca, we are his second team. he’s made his choice and im starting to think he should just fuck off. I just hope to god wenger will spend half the money on a replacement or we could struggle to finish fourth next season

  192. – if
    + of

  193. Webster,

    When he made the comments about his future being resolved before the World Cup that was 3 weeks ago. Barca hadn’t bid for him so you can’t say he knew.

    keysersoze,

    Again, Villa was acquired well after Cesc’s comments about his future. In any case, you still haven’t established how we was supposed to know;

    1. How much Barca would bid for him
    2. how much would be acceptable to Arsenal in declared terms.
    3. how much would be acceptable to Arsenal with money on the table.

  194. Obviously no one knows the exact figures if thats what you are trying to say, but one can reasonably infer that Barca would have been way below Arsenal’s and indeed the market’s fair valuation of a player of Cesc’s calibre.

  195. And I don’t think Villa’s purchase was made before Cesc’s statement when he said he wanted his future sorted quickly. Correct me if I am wrong though, I don’t have exact dates.

  196. keysersoze,

    Sure, I can infer that, I don’t nevertheless know how Cesc can know any of this for sure.

  197. He gives a fuck, the prick wants to leave to run and suckle Gaudiola;s nipple. when i think about it I get angry and unsure if I want to see him in an arsenal shirt again. When a player wants to leave he becomes a poison in the dressing room, a virus that will infect other people. Add to that he’s our fucking captain and it really does make you feel shit

  198. I think a player would be able to infer such details related to his own transfer, if not he would know from his agent. If you don’t agree that is fair enough.

  199. I meant ‘WHO gives a fuck’

  200. Ole, lets reason.

    He said he was staying, Arsene said that he was staying. What bid are you talking about? As if we thought that Arsenal were about to sell Fab or he did. why would Arsenal sign him to a long term contract if not to secure him long term?

    Couldnt he have said, “I am staying, I want to stay at Arsenal” . Which is what so many other players do when it comes to transfer rumors? he could then have easlily stated that it is a business and he could be sold.

    Did he ever once state his desire to stay? no he did not. For me he wants to go to Barca but he doesnt want to bite the hand that fed him.

    Again, he takes most of the blame, BECAUSE HE SIGNED A CONTRACT, though I agree they dont mean that much anymore G4E.

    He is kool with me if he stays as he is if he goes.

  201. Paul N,

    Barca were planning to bid for him this Summer, and they would have made it be known to him through several means…..

    Arsenal have sold several players after extending their contracts in Fabregas’ time at the club.

    So you ask why he couldn’t have said “I am staying, I want to stay at Arsenal”….

    Well because maybe he will be happy with either outcome….

    Ok, so you’re not accepting of that state of affairs, the state of affairs in which Cesc is not unhappy to go to his boyhood club, the club he supports, for which play his good mates. But I don’t think that’s a fair take on the matter by any means.

  202. I do blame him for breaking his silence on the issue. For talking at all.

    Don’t get me wrong…..I don’t deny he probably wants to leave. But his behaviour suggests he wont be unhappy to stay either

  203. keysersoze,

    Again I don’t deny the ability to make inferences. That’s what we’re doing and we’re not cleverer than he is.

    How he could know anything for certain is my question.

  204. Nasir Jones-Nasri

    Sounds like you got some issues outside of football that need to resolved, Webster. It’s really not that big of a deal to where one would need to feel angry. Whether he stays or goes, we got Arsene Wenger to sort it out. Take a deep breath it’s going to be alright.

  205. Ole, you will not convince me that Cesc thought he would be sold or that Arsenal wouldve sold him. You and I know that that was out of the pciture for the most part and I am sure he did also.

    I am not saying that Cesc is unhappy at all. Thats has nothing to do with it for me. He also may be happy both ways but he hasnt made me feel confident as an Arsenal supporter.

  206. If one is involved in a situation in which they are being influenced they still are the person most responsible for what happens.

  207. Paul N,

    Au contraire, I do not/did not know if Arsenal would have sold/will still sell him.

    This is the club that sold 5 members of a double-winning squad. Sure, those were different times, with different stages of squad development.

    But the notion that Arsenal (or any club) will never consider selling players if the price is good, doesn’t seem to square with how things usually work in football.

  208. Or in Business

  209. On your last point Ole, which is correct, about Arsenal selling players, I think we have to concede that in general, arsenal have not kept unhappy players. Some people may have suggested in the past that they have only been moved on when it suited Wenger, but you have to look at the transfer circumstances of Anelka, Overmars and Hleb inparticular. These players were at their peak, or in the case of Anelka, still very young and approaching their peak. They were let go.

    Other players I can think of, but with perhaps slightly different circumstances are Ashley Cole and Diarra. Cole’s case was different because the whole thing stunk the place out. Diarra was just a twat who wanted instant glorification and gratification.

    The question though is has Wenger let a player as fundamentally important as Cesc is, at the peak of their careers. Arsenal can’t be seen to be losing face over this. The other players were more or less replaced. Perhaps Cesc can be replaced, who knows ? But again, arsenal can’t be seen to be pushovers.

  210. If the price is right, any player is for sale, but one hopes that Arsenal would not print such a strong statement on their website if they were prepared to do business. They are very conscious about their reputation and either believe that barca are not serious and therefore will not table an eye-watering bid, which might tempt them, or they really have no intention to sell at any price. Any other outcome would seriously undermine their bargaining position in any future negotiations with any other team. They also have to be pretty confident about the player’s tacit acceptance of their stance, or unwillingness to agitate for a move or again their position is untenable.

  211. I agree with Muppet, we can’t be seen as pushovers and I would not be happy if Cesc goes for less than a minimum of 50 or $60 million.

    I just don’t like to crucify the boy because each one of us had a dream and his dream probably is to be his neighborhood club hero.
    Barca are the ones that put him in this situation, if they were decent people they would’ve contacted Arsenal or Arsene by phone without any one even knowing and asked if he was for sale. No media, No circus, No Cesc, No Xavi, and no sh*t.

    But because they knew Arsenal will not let him go, and he will not come out and bite Wenger’s hand…they went overly public with the whole thing and put him in this situation knowing he can’t bad mouth them.

    The one to blame is Barca and their players. Cesc said he wants to play for Barca one day, but he never said when or now.

    What I don’t like is I thought that he had a stronger personality, if he’s so sure of himself as a player he would say to himself I can play for Barca at the time of my choosing and not theirs. He can only get better and a thousand club would die for his signature including Barca.

  212. Paul N, I agree.
    Of course, anything is possible, but Ole cannot seriously be suggesting that Fabregas doesn’t know how important he is to this club and genuinely was unsure whether Wenger wanted to sell him. Wenger has built the team around him, fgs. The only valid comparison with past players is with Henry or Vieira – in their prime! AW did not sell them in their prime when they were central to his plans.

    Cesc is at fault. It doesn’t follow that he has to be punished, crucified, or whatever you want to call it, but he is at fault. Just as in Adebayor’s case, I can leave it at that.

  213. I agree FG. I think that under extreme emotional pressure he made a mis-judgement. He is young and I can forgive him if he stays and plays with commitment. I didn’t boo Adebayor and I wouldn’t boo Cesc either.

  214. Well said Passenal. Agree completely.

    The statement the club made suggests to me that Wenger told Cesc he does not want to sell him yet, and I suspect Cesc told him that he would rather go but he is willing to stay this year. I also suspect that Cesc has been promised that he can leave in the near future. Probably next summer or at the latest the summer after. All just guesses. No one will ever know for sure.

    Agree with the others regarding the importance of the club staying strong and not losing face during this whole thing. I think AFC has done a superb job up to this point and I fully expect that to continue.

  215. Muppet,

    I don’t disagree. Though we should acknowledge that their are many degrees of unhappiness and Anelka’s, Diarra’s are poles apart from the current situation.

    As much as I agree we’ve always sold unhappy players, I’d also remind you we were always paid the player’s full market value or more.

    No player important to the club (and not yet over the hill!) has been sold at less than market rate in the Wenger era.

  216. Fungunner,

    Do you think it’s impossible that Cesc will still be sold?

    If you don’t think it impossible even now, why should Cesc have done 3 weeks ago?

  217. Diarra was bought for £2m, sold for £6m and we got a sell on fee when he went to RM, so we made plenty out of that transfer. I don’t think we wanted to sell Anelka, but we got maximum fee out of RM at the time and that paid for our state of the art training faciility. Arsenal rarely get ripped off on transfers.

  218. YaYa Toure is coming to the premiership.

    It has to be the chavs or the northern chavs. Or possibly the mancs.

  219. @ Ole

    Do you think it’s impossible that Cesc will still be sold?

    If you don’t think it impossible even now, why should Cesc have done 3 weeks ago?

    Of course I don’t think it’s impossible. The first line of my post was “Of course, anything is possible” – I implied it was highly unlikely.

    Cesc knows and we know that his position in the club is totally different to that of a player like Traore, for example. After Nasri had his great game v Porto, reporters speculated that he could challenge for the central playmaker position. And Arsene simply said, “No, Cesc plays there.” Cesc’s is the first name on the team sheet and he knows it.

  220. @ Passenal

    Arsenal rarely get ripped off on transfers.

    True – we rip other people off! I’m still chuckling about £25 million for Adebayor…

  221. FunGunner,

    I have no doubt that both things are true; Cesc is first name on the team sheet, and he knows it.

    That does nothing to prevent him thinking the club might sell him. Why? Because the club might even now still sell him.

  222. FunGun, for me Ole is playing the devils advocate.

    Its true as Passenal says that players have a price but I know that selling Cesc was not in the plans because of what was stated by both Cesc and Arsene.

    Also agree that I dont see where Arsenal has sold a central player in their prime unless they want out.

    We dont have to crucify Cesc but he is at fault mostly and we should be able to readily admit that, influenced or not.

    I will no doubt support him if he stays.

  223. Ole, it’s the difference between possibility and probability. Are you saying that every season Cesc is on tenterhooks as to whether he will still be sold?

  224. – “will still be sold”
    + “will be sold”

  225. FunFun,

    Not every season is there an offer on the table for Cesc Fabregas. The current situation does not play out every season.

    It seems to me you’re minimising the impact of Cesc being told; “we’re coming for you this season. If you don’t join us this season the deal might never happen. We will sign you this season”.

    You’re essentially saying he’d then be able to carry on like he didnt have that information. And that’s just not right….as it ignores how actual events influence people’s actions.

    Many men who plan to never cheat on their wives might do if a pretty busty blonde knocked on their hotel room door at midnight in the middle of Arizona while their family is back home in Milton Keynes.

  226. FunGunner….the last comment was addressed to you. Pardon the error.

  227. i think none of Holland or Spain will win it.They are favorite and will fail as usual.
    Spain lost Senna who was bringing brazilian steal (much better than english steal and cheaper one 😀 too)and hard work in their midfield.T

  228. Ole,

    I liked the comment, with the mistake FunFun.

    Must say I agree with Ole on the Cesc issue. It must have been hard if Barcelona (and it’s helpers) told Cesc, “now or never”. I can see that being the reason he left the decision up to Arsene.

  229. I have a question Ole G….why Arizona?

    No pretty busty blondes ever knock on my door at midnight…or any other time? 😦

  230. G4E, just think how much trouble you are not getting into.

  231. dupsffokcuf

    I’m divorced….bring it on.

    Hold on, maybe it’s not happening because I’m not married?

  232. Fungunner @ 9.21pm, I’m still chuckling at the sell on fee for Bentley to Spuds! Fantastic – it helped buy Arsharvin.

    Cesc is close to David Villa, like a younger brother to the other Barca boys and said on a few occaisions Pep was his idol growing up. I am guessing he thought Barca after 4yrs of pursuit would actually make a ‘proper’ bid for him.

    I would definately not boo Cesc while he plays for us, we need to get the best out of him. Adebayor in contrast is fair game as far as i’m concerned. I’d throw rotten eggs if I could.

    Ole Gunner – you have won me over with your points.

    No player is bigger than the club and Arsenal have let Barca know that we are not a small London club. The next time we play them I reckon it will be 4-0 (to us of course!) Come On!!!!

  233. silver gunner

    barca at it again ffs one of the governing bodies have got to do something because this is most definitely tapping up.

    Josep Maria Bartomeu has been quoted as saying

    “All the players have a price, but we can’t value what Cesc’s is because we would be intervening in a deal that the club are handling at present.

    “The price of a player is always in relation to the number of years he has left on his contract, but in this case it seems that the wind is blowing in our favour.”

    WTF???? the wind blowing in his favour ???? He signed a contract extension not too long ago.

    Theses are all unsettling tactics and a stop must be put to them.

  234. @ Ole Gunner

    You’ve missed the point. I’m not minimising the effect of Barca’s “It’s now or never” pronouncement, which is at the root of all this. That is not what this argument is about. I am simply incredulous that, as you claim, Cesc can reasonably have thought that AW would want, or plan to sell him, in the absence of quite extraordinary circumstances. Why would Barca’s statement make AW want to sell Fabregas? You simply cannot maintain that Cesc was just expressing a general, non-specific understanding that anything can happen by saying he wanted his future sorted before the WC. Especially since his previous statements about Barca transfer noise have been so firm and unequivocal.

    The way I read the situation is that Fabregas is content at Arsenal, but was disappointed about the way the season ended, pissed off about his injury and hence susceptible to the blandishments of his fellow countrymen while recuperating at home. Add to that the “now or never” ultimatum and his reaction, unsurprisingly, was to panic. The impetus for all the speculation came partly from Cesc. A long talk with the psychological master was enough to make him see sense. Because he doesn’t want to leave Arsenal as such – but if he did, it would ONLY be for Barcelona.

  235. Anyone watched him play today? How did he do?

  236. FunGunner et al,

    In the end we don’t know enough….

    All I am saying is that I can see why Cesc could/would behave as he has.

    The worst case scenario is that he wants to leave. That’s not a grave offence.

  237. @ Ole G.

    Again, not the point we were arguing. We all know he wants to end up at Barcelona.

    Let’s go through the argument

    You said (in response to Paul N): “What’s wrong with him wanting his future resolved quickly?”

    His future IS resolved – it’s with us.

    You said: “You mean it’s impossible that Arsenal would accept a bid for him?

    Not impossible, just highly unlikely, given his importance to Wenger’s plans.

    You said: “He knew Barca were going to bid for him…..by all means he knew that was coming. So his future was unsettled until Arsenal rejected such a bid.”

    Bearing in mind his centrality to the team, and Wenger’s estimation of him, his future is only unsettled if he makes it so.

    You said: “Webster

    When he made the comments about his future being resolved before the World Cup that was 3 weeks ago. Barca hadn’t bid for him so you can’t say he knew.”

    You contradict yourself.

    To you and anyone else, just for the record:
    I think Cesc hasn’t behaved as well as he should, we all understand the reasons why.
    I do not hate him
    I think he is far more likely than not to remain an Arsenal player for next season
    I expect a great season from him and he will have my full support

    And finally, I am knackered, so I am going to bed.

  238. FunGunner,

    I did not contradict myself. Webster claimed Cesc knew Barca would bid too low for him, basing it on the actual bid.

    His future is unsettled if Barca are bidding for him and Arsenal have not yet rejected the bid. That applies even to now because they will send in another bid.

    No point pretending it’s not unsettled. All it takes for it to be unsettled is for Barca to be seriously after him, him to be unsure Arsenal will let him stay, him to want to leave, or him to not mind leaving for Barca. Any of those things is enough to leave his future unsettled.

  239. My question is, if Barca didn’t openly and publicly came calling for Fabregas, do you guys & gals think he would’ve asked to be sold to them or asked to leave?

  240. @ Ole

    OK, this really is my last word now. I was wrong about the contradiction, sorry.

    However, back to the main issue…
    All it takes for it to be unsettled is for Barca to be seriously after him, him to be unsure Arsenal will let him stay, him to want to leave, or him to not mind leaving for Barca. Any of those things is enough to leave his future unsettled.

    You honestly believe that Cesc would be “unsure that Arsenal would let him stay”? Is AW likely to WANT to sell his MVP? Seriously? Just doesn’t wash. AW sold Anelka because Anelka wanted to go.
    Barca had not made any bid for Cesc when he made those comments, let alone a silly money bid that might cause AW to consider it.

    Regarding the rest, Barca are always talking about him. They haven’t made a formal bid before – could that be because he hasn’t given them enough encouragement before?
    That he wants to end up at Barca is a given, nothing new there, so why should that make his future unsettled?
    “Him wanting to leave” – that’s just the point. As I said, HE created the uncertainty.

    ***

    @ G4E
    They call for Cesc openly and shamelessly every season!

  241. Gainsbourg69

    Cesc should fire his agent. If Cesc sr. is anything like my old man he probably thinks he knows more than everyone. I’m pretty sure all this garbage started when someone from Nike went up to him and convinced him that he could be making Messi money if he moved to Barca this year.

    “Sometimes not even in my own house have I felt more love than I felt at Arsenal,” doesn’t sound like Cesc is 100% happy with his pops. This is why I won’t go for the knee jerk, “fuck off Cesc” reaction. I’m pretty sure Cesc would be psyched about playing with all his friends, but odds are he didn’t want it to go down this way.

  242. @ Ateeb 8:56. This Fabregas “legal options” article at Goal.com is kind of hilarious. So they seem to think that, based on FIFA art. 17 and the Webster decision, Cesc can terminate his Arsenal contract and go to Barca, with Barca liable for only 34.2 mm euros in future wages. But I dug up a good discussion of both in this subsequent CAS decision involving a squabble between Shakhtar Donetsk and Real Zaragoza over da Silva (http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/3229/5048/0/Award%201519-1520%20_internet_.pdf). In actuality, Barca could face massive potential liability if Cesc terminated his contract, including (a) the full value of the remaining time on the contract, considering contracts with both new and old clubs and transfer offers; (b) costs of training/development; (c) replacement costs; and (d) for inducing the breach, a two cycle transfer ban and four month playing bans for the player and other players involved in inducing the breach (with inducing the breach presumed unless disproven). It would be crazy for Cesc to go that route, or for Barca to encourage him to do so, but the idiots in the media still run with this story.

  243. shotta-gunna

    GoonerinLA – I am very happy you did the research and dug up the facts that attest to the high costs of Cesc breaking his contract or Barca inducing him to do so. Mainly because I had been giving some thought to the exchanges between Ole, FunGunner, Passenal, Paul N and G4E. IMO, it is fruitless for us as fans to worry about Cesc’s state of mind; did he, will he, wont he? The fact is Arsenal and AW in particular are very experienced with the fickleness of mind of many so-called star players and I am sure that is why they have periodically extended and made Cesc contract more lucrative as an objective statement of the present and future value of the player. This is the high price the Barca-scum have to date demonstrated no willingness to pay. Yesterday’s statement by the club that Cesc was not for sale, does not mean there is no price for the player, rather it is a statement that Cesc value to the club is so high that only stupid money will budge us from our current position. And we all know Wenger has never sold a player unless he has maximized value from the deal whether it is Anelka, Henry, Viera or Ade, to name a few. The bottomline is Cesc is our player, regardless of his past, current or future state of mind. His value to the club is so apparent that even the boo-boys will keep quiet if and when he puts on the shirt again. He has my support until Wenger decides otherwise.

  244. Thanks GoonerinLa. I posted the article just to show the new line the hacks are threading. Didn’t believe the crap for a second. But you’ve surely put that argument to bed completely. Cheers

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