Now Go And Win The Title

Stoke City 1 – 3 Arsenal

1 – 0 Pugh (8)
1 – 1 Bendtner (32)
1 – 2 Fabregas (90 pen)
1 – 3 vermaelen (90)

A win that closed the gap to Chelsea to three points, overshadowed by the injury suffered by Aaron Ramsey. The tackle from Ryan Shawcross was appalling; indefensible. It was not malicious in the same manner that Taylor’s was on Eduardo but that does not matter; the outcome was the same and that is where the focus should be. Ryan Shawcross adds his name to the list of Dan Smith and Martin Taylor in a hall of shame.

Ramsey had been playing his way up the midfield pecking order with some good displays this season. The next campaign may be virtually over before he can perform on the pitch again. As soon as the tackle happened, the faces of both sets of players betrayed the seriousness of the injury.

Vermaelen exhibited the same emotions his colleagues did two years ago; Cesc was distraught; they all were. Yet they rallied once the medical team attended to Ramsey; Clichy consoled and cajoled as did his captain. The desire to win took hold, to ensure that an opportunity presented by Chelsea’s collapse at lunchtime was not wasted.

Post-match, Arsene queried how much more of the overly physical approach would be permitted by the authorities. The answer is that it will never stop so long as referees fail to punish. Cesc noted that in England, ‘play on‘ is the mantra; had Walton blown for the deliberate handball by a Stoke player immediately prior to Shawcross’ tackle, Ramsey would not be contemplating a long spell of recovery and rehabilitation.

Is there a coincidence in these events? Yes and no. Yes, it is coincidental that they have happened on a seemingly bi-annual basis. No; teams acknowledge that they go in harder on Arsenal, to unsettle and unnerve. The mentality was highlighted by Kevin Davies before the recent encounter at The Reebok, claiming Arsenal ‘scream like girls‘. Did the FA intervene then and demand explanation. No. Will they do so in the future? No. Would they do so if the suffering were from Rooney or Gerrard…

Stoke hoped that Shawcross would not be demonised. He should not be. His manager though left a foul and noxious stench around the club. Wenger did not criticise Shawcross as a person; he criticised the tackle. Pulis felt it necessary to insult his counterpart, telling the world that he ‘wouldn’t give tuppence for Wenger’s opinions about his players as people‘, a vile tirade buried in remorse for the incident.

So to the match itself. Dominating the penalty area against Stoke was the message beforehand; it didn’t sink in. Seven minutes was all that it took for Stoke to take the lead from the expected source, a Delap long throw. In much the same way that Bolton, Wimbledon and other long ball merchants have had success from home fixtures against Arsenal, Stoke produced a quick tempo start, capitalising on lax marking to take an early lead, Pugh from point blank range heading home.

Arsenal stumbled through the next twenty minutes, gradually imposing their strength and passing onto the contest. Fabregas forced Sorensen to scramble to prevent his effort from range entering the net. Moments later, the Spaniard’s corner skewed towards the top corner, the Stoke goalkeeper blocked by Campbell in front, Sagna behind, the ball evading the far corner by inches.

The equaliser came from an unlikely route, a case of ‘Anything you can do, we can do better; Fabregas curled an excellent cross into the area, Bendtner rose and guided his header into the far corner of the goal, past the despairing dive of Sorensen.

Arsenal controlled the second forty-five minutes, having recovered from the early Stoke advantage. Ramsey was felled in the area, unsurprisingly the referee did not award a penalty. Eboue picked the ball up on the edge of area, weaved and jinked, launching a shot that Sorensen fumbled to safety such was the ferocity of the strike.

Inevitably, the match petered for a few minutes following Ramsey’s injury, apparently heading towards it’s conclusion without incident. Then the mental strength that Arsene has been publicly talking of for months took over. The ten men were stretched and strained over the pitch. Possession retained, the full width of the pitch used. Chances came and went until Stoke’s defiance broke with injury time approaching.

Song cleverly lifted the ball over Stoke defence, Eduardo skewed wide. The breakthrough came as Bendtner’s flick found Pugh’s arm moving downwards. A penalty always given to the home side, never the away, was awarded and Fabregas controlled his emotions to calmly despatch the kick against a goalkeeper who had enjoyed a purple patch for stopping them. Emotions erupted in the celebration, the team ethic shining through. The result was put beyond doubt when Vermaelen nudged home from Fabregas’ knockback.

Overall, it was a fighting performance. Almunia had his moments of indecision and slack hands but on the whole, dealt with the expected Delap barrage, making good saves along the way, hopefully convincing a few people of his worth.

The defence contained Fuller and Sidibe far better than in the cup-tie, holding a firm line, containing Stoke’s threat once the initial bombardment was over. Campbell and Vermaelen grew in stature as the game went on, matching their opponents in challenges.

Fabregas, Ramsey and Nasri struggled to impose themselves initially but once they did so, they controlled the game. Nasri had an afternoon where his hard work provided less reward than it merited; a day when things would not fall just right for him. Like Eboue, he will play worse and be more personally rewarded.

The Spaniard and Welshman were vying for Man of the Match, along with Bendtner. For a team which prides itself on physicality and strength, they had few answers to the Dane who followed up his good start against Sunderland with another at The Britannia.

As Wenger said post-match, before that tackle, it was an even contest in terms of the physical side of the game. Arsenal stood up to any attempts to bully them out of the stride. Once they got to grips with that, imposing the passing style ensured victory. It is this attitude which needs to be carried on into future games.

Three points set the coming month for a charge to the top. By the time Chelsea next play in the Premier League, they could be third. In five games time, the top two meet at Old Trafford. Inbetween, United entertain Liverpool amid a set of routine fixtures. Chelsea have the potentially tricky visit of Aston Villa to overcome. Arsenal has an opportunity to take 15 out of 15. The business end of the season is here; Let’s go to work.

’til Tomorrow.

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Posted on February 28, 2010, in Arsenal. Bookmark the permalink. 256 Comments.

  1. Theres only 1 Aaron ramsey
    Theres only 1 Aaron ramsey
    One Aaron RAMSSEEYYYYY

  2. __Arsenal__

    for the win..

  3. Is there a way of sending Aaron get well soon messages?

  4. Most of the non Chelsea, Man U fans will be cheering us on now, lets hope the boys can stay as determined as they were yesterday, if so all those doomers and buy now merchants will be eating their words, come season end.
    What a glorious sight that would be.

    Thanks again Yogi

  5. Raadi Al Haroumi

    Yesterdays performance was awe inspiring. Such a shame that the day was marred by the horrific injury to our young welsh wizard. The Stoke fans are an absolute disgrace.. we’ve all heard the unabashed racism from their neanderthal crowd before, and going to Stoke away is always bile-inducing, but singing vile chants at an 18 year old kid who is lying on the floor with his career in the balance takes the fucking biscuit. These people shouldnt be allowed to breed.

    A speedy recovery Aaron.. we are all with you.
    Also, on a positive, Clichy looked much closer to his best form and Sol was fantastic. Cesc showed the leadership qualities that make you forget he’s only 22, and Bendtners movement throughout was intelligent and tireless.

    This game was a huge test and we came through it brilliantly. Made me proud to be a gooner.

  6. Sol’s passion was surreal,he was like a caged animal directing traffick at the back.clichy was very impressive’07-08 esque’.sol should play in such away games while not giving a sniff to opposition strikers,well done AW it was a masterstroke.nasri and eboue were everywhere swapping wings at ease baffling stoke defenders.ramsey was having a good game but due to our familiarity with such injuries,he will be under good care.Diaby needs to stay fit for the rest of the season to keep den out,shava has been out for 3 weeks he needs to comeback and lay his mark to push us over the line.RVP must be eager to get back because we need all our matchwinners firing to help us take the final step in the maturity of our team,winning silverware.

  7. Vince i’m sure if you contact Arsenal through the official website that any get well soon messages will be passed on. I remember reading in the past, Arsenal players thanking the fans for the thousands of messages they’ve received when being injured or in a similiar situation.

  8. I have little sympathy for Shawcross and his tears. But ultimately the resposnsibilty for his actions should be soley and squarely at the feet of Tony Pulis. You can all imagine the pre-match talk of “lets get in their faces” and “let ‘em know you’re there!” and “we all know that Arsenal scream like girls”. Shawcross simply folllowed this mantra and recklessly swung his leg into a high speed challenge without considering the consequences. This media induced myth put about that Arsenal can be kicked out of their passing game is an utter disgrace to the EPL and to football generally.

  9. Sol was immense!!! He went into 2004 invincible mode.

    Sol/TV or McSulk/TV????

    Gallas is a good defender, but Sol is passionate and organizes our backline. TV looked comfortable beside him. Gallas not good for team morale when the chips are down I believe.

    Your thoughts

  10. “Most of the non Chelsea, Man U fans will be cheering us on now”

    No, the media have painted Wenger like he’s some kind of criminal.

  11. Good writing, sir. Best of luck to you Ramsey. And that Pulis fella should hang his head in shame, the f*cker. Also though Arseblogger was on the money today. Worth a read if you haven’t already.

  12. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1254294/Arsenal-manager-Arsene-Wenger-hits-Ryan-Shawcross-horror-tackle.html Wenger interview, never seen him so blunt he goes ” Spare me the Shawcross is a nice guy thing tomorrow” classic

  13. well, i do give pulis credit for saying at the end of the interview that the result didnt matter, after what happened to ramsey, when the interviewer mentioned that stoke was holding us until the penalty.

    i would put it down to his tirade against wenger as a lack of comprehension on the true crux of the issue.

    there was maybe no malice on shawcross’s part, but i think his boot was raised as he went for that 50-50. i can accept that there was no malice, i can accept that it was a 50-50.

    but the fact was that ramsey broke his leg because shawcross’s boot was raised above the ankle. why was the boot raised above the ankle when the ball wasn’t there?

  14. I’m yet to see the back pages today, can anyone who has tell me what the general vibe is? (I really hate the word vibe but can’t think of anything better)

  15. F**k Pulis and O’neill!
    True that Arsene ONLY condemned the tackle and NOT the player,but seems these foolish managers can’t understand english.

  16. Ryan Shawcross has taken off a couple of years from Aaron Ramsey’s career and that is the best case scenario. The cynic inside me is telling me that he’s been rewarded with an England call up for doing just that. This assault against Arsenal players will continue till we stand up to them and dish back what we are getting, then we’ll see how the pundits call our players a smashing guy and and real nice kid ala Shawcross.
    I was watching the game with my mom and I have not seen her so upset and she’s seen some pretty agricultural stuff in her time, her dad was a semi-pro, who used to play on pitches more suited to sowing grain than to play football. Arsenal players have to do something about this because this just won’t do, its unacceptable. The decent thing would be to carry on and try and win the title for Aaron, but that won’t keep the smug bastards in suits who sit in studio and tell the world that Arsenal don’t like it up them and they can be get at if you rough them up. Enough is enough its time we broke a few of their players as well, and if that puts the fear of God in this neanderthals then it will be well worth it. I know it is us stooping to their level but this is just not fair.

  17. My thoughts are with Ramsey every minute. It’s so sad for the youngman but he’ll recover and come back stronger.

    Sol was immense and with his current form and experience in the dressing room, Gallas should fight for his place rather than come in straight away.

    I pray that God lay his protective arm over Ramsey.

  18. Thankyou Yogi for a well balanced review as usual following another emotional day.
    Whether Shawcross meant or didnt mean his challenge was reckless and unacceptable, no doubt we are going to hear this week on how a nice guy he is and wouldn’t hurt a fly, yea right !
    No doubt the media will make him the victim in all this and the biggest irony is that he has just made the England squad.
    What message does that send ?
    Shame on Pulis who insulted Arsene on MOD, that man is a moron.
    On to the playing side, i thought after the first quarter we were superb (why do we start so slowly these days, it takes a goal to wake us up)
    A fantastic victory in the circumstances lets go on and win this for Arrron.
    COME ON YOU GUNNERS!

    ps. Great post from G4E yesterday after the game summed it up perfectly.

  19. @ Meneurdejeu10
    Sol is defying age but overall Gallas is our best defender and he has a great relationship with TV.

    ***

    @ YW
    Good write-up, again.
    And the yellow card for Song was truly bizarre – even if Walton was dead set on booking one of us and had managed to convince himself it was a foul, it wasn’t the worst foul by an Arsenal player.

    Wenger did not criticise Shawcross as a person; he criticised the tackle.
    Good point. Pulis fell for the media spin.

  20. Rambo shld be fine. I tink there was no bone sticking out{i mite be wrong} which is important. Denilson gets my support being an arsenal playa bt we need diaby in d next two match coz song is out{10 yellow cards}.

  21. Wimbledon? That’s a retro reference

    In reality it was a case of when, not if, another Arsenal player was going to get the chop like that. The media quite happily perpetuate the get in their faces (i.e. foul relentlessly) motif and then act suprised when this happens

  22. did anyone notice we dropped back to a four four two at the end? that’s why we scored. watch when eduardo comes on and starts doing tactics with his fingers to the others. we became less narrow and we looked more spread out. we should do that every time the other team put everyone in defence. and by the way if you look at some of the pictures again you will see ramsey broke his leg before the tackle took place. peace.

  23. NO MALICE !
    Shawcross claims ”no malice” in tackle

    Why do people always claim – No Malice -
    when they break Arsenal’s players’ legs?

    Can a drunk claims “No Malice” when he or she drive and breaks someone’s legs and then do not have to go to jail? Cry and show a little tear and that’s it.

    They know what they are doing – going into challenges hard and reckless like that. They know all they get is mebbe 4 match ban…..

    By the way – Can i break your leg, Mr. Shawcross and I promise I will do it without malice, please!

    I feel sick. Pray and hope that Ramsey will get well soon.

  24. I am a Stoke Fan, and with all Stoke fans we hope that Aaron gets well and back playing asap.

    But the evedence is there for all to see, the break is not a collision break it is a twist break, his foot is stuck in the ground and his leg has turned and broke.
    All hard core football fans like myself have seen injuries time and again which were the result of nasty challanges, this was not nasty just unfortunate.

    With this i would like to add that I wish Arsenal all the best, and I hope that you can use this injury to galvanise your title push, and win the Premier League.

  25. For those who doubt bentners humanity because of his ego. Note who was down there holding Ramsey. And who pushed shawcross away when he came to apologize.

    Bendtner and Ramsey were motm when he go hurt. Our giant was the biggest giant on that pitch. Fabregas wa motm after. And sol. And vermallen. The passion they showed.

    I have less probl with stoke I admit than for example Bolton. This match was not violent until then.

    We are going to win the fucking league.

    Oh afterthought. To end with a smile. Beat goal of yesterday. Tevez first goal.

  26. Stephen

    Are you saying his injury is less severe than that of Eduardo?

  27. “…Would they do so if the suffering were from Rooney or Gerrard…” spot on!

  28. I believe this tackle was down to the media more so than shawcross. these players are lionised inthe press for upsetting arsenals play. the ref had already ignored a blatant penalty on aaron which could have changed the game.there are too many dangerous tackles to be coincidental.shawcosses 3 bad injuries to arsenal players in 3 years is indefensible. let the arsenal now go and win the epl for aaron and for football.
    this was a magnificent player who was on the verge of greatness and lets hope and pray he will make a huge recovery

  29. Ramsey has got time on his side dont forget, this injury will either sideline him for goodness knows how long, or at best a year for recovery,

    he definitely was on the verge of the first team, you can see wenger has started to play him in bigger games, he was and STILL is a world class player, i pray in 5 years time after making a recovery he’ll have cemented himself as one of the worlds best

  30. thanks fungunner for that at least its slightly reassuring,

    oh btw vince im sure the website will give info on where to send cards to him soon, the same thing happened with edu

  31. Ankle injuries are severe since they happen at joints and thats why abou and eddy took long to recover.i don’t think aaron’s is as serious since it is a bone fracture,remember eddy had to get oxygen on the pitch.anyways get well soon ramsey.cesc and sol were fantastic!

  32. We all will have to come to accept that the world is filled with single minded pr***s. Probably in majority. Read at the Le Moan, that the stoke fans were chanting “He’s only got one leg”. It’s unbelievable that human beings can act the way they do, some times. As for the media conceding their fault or part in this incident, we can only dream on. They will get behind Shawcross, and defend him. That is part of the reason that I feel like Zimpaul right now, SICK and DISGUSTED of English football. The whole of it. Idiots, the whole lot of them.

  33. after ramsey’s injury i can understand why hleb left arsenal and the epl. he was routinely kicked until his legs were black and blue (as arsene mentioned in one post-match interview) and maybe he thought it would be only a matter of time till some taylor or shawcross broke his leg. that’s what you get if you try to play football in the epl.

  34. Zap,

    will the address be the same? i mean that was 2 years ago…

  35. i want cesc to go up to the ref before every game, shake his hand, look him in the eye and tell him: i hope you do your job properly today, ref

  36. The band of brothers i.e. Fergie, Sam, Bruce, Pulis et al will kill english football if PFA doesn’t do anything about this. I don’t see their teams dish out the same against ManU for that matter. Because they are British, eh!

    England would not win anything in another hundred years, because they are so occupied with themselves, the typical xenophobic attitude of the media, their paper-Gods like Terry and Gerrards will get them Qtr Finals at best. EPL will lose technically gifted players and there would be nobody to be vilified as “foreign pussies” coz they wont care to play in the league.

  37. Neil Custis and Patrick Barclay of Sunday Suppliment brought up the over physicality of other teams towards Arsenal and the recklessness of Shawcross’s previous indescretions where he runs the length of the pitch to scythe Adebayor when he is not even on the pitch. WTF?. And Shawcross of course is a good boy who cries to his mother when he realises that trying to be a ‘man’ comes with a heavy price. I have no love for the guy, he is a cretin. And gets an England call up.

    Nice to finally get some acknowledgement from Sunday Supplement of having great fortitude and mental strength. Lets do it for Aaron.

  38. Gooner4Life – Is there a link for that? I have gone through most of the match reports and except Times it’s all “He is not that kind of a lad” and all that bullshit.

  39. Surprisingly 2 journos on Sunday SS agreed fully with Arsene`s comments. Patrick Barclay even mentioned that Shawcross had previous against us in last season`s game when he crocked Adebayor off the ball.

    As I said earlier , there seems to be more kudos in kicking Arsenal players than any other teams & until that changes these bad injuries will continue.

    Stephen of Stoke – are you implying that Ramsey would have broken his leg had nobody challenged him ? You`re right, the evidence IS there to see. If Shawcross had kept his feeet on the floor (where the ball was !) the injury would not have occurred. Simple really – don`t try & muddy things with this `twist break` cr&p.

  40. Flint McCullough

    Great report YW.

    We all wish Aaron the speediest of recoveries. He has a talent only matched by Cesc & Liam Brady at his age.

    I was at the game. Recent scapegoats Clichy, Sol & Almunia were terrific in that opening spell when we were under the cosh. During this spell Stoke were using their physical game fairly & effectively.

    They could not keep it up, so when they tired more & more they lost the discipline that is essential with their style of play. The extended tackles start flying in to become progressively dangerous.

    I do not believe there was malice or that anything other than the force of Shawcross going over the ball broke Aaron’s leg.

    Discipline is the key. On the day Stoke lost it.

    Stoke fans are like ours, or anybody else’s, mainly decent with more than a few like the cream of the island race doing the wanker motion as Aaron was being put in the ambulance.

    I am sure you are not like that Stephen but don’t kid yourself that Shawcross wasn’t reckless. I have nothing against Stoke & appreciate that football is played in many ways. They have to use their strengths but in a way that doesn’t endanger their opponents.

    Our away support was terrific, a lesson to the Emirates. The team did & will respond to it.

  41. BluntGooner you will find it at Sky Sports Sunday Suppliment podcast. Here is the link :

    http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/story/0,20144,12382_5991425_12382,00.html

  42. i wonder what england will make of all this if walcott was the person who went down and broke his leg instead of ramsey.

  43. @stephen lawson I will preface my statements by saying that I obviously haven’t seen Aaron’s x-rays nor directly examined him. The official site only mentions a tibia fibula fracture. Having acknowleged that, as a physician and former trauma surgeon, I can assure you that it takes a tremendous amount of DIRECT force to fracture the tibia. One doesn’t fracture the tibia as a result of ROTATIONAL movement. If the injury had occurred as a result of Ramsey twisting while his foot had planted, he may have ruptured ankle or knee ligaments but he wouldn’t have broken his leg. Ligaments will rupture before bones fracture. Please don’t try to mitigate Shawcross’ actions by offering an alternative and ill informed theory of the mechanism of injury. Aaron Ramsey was the victim of an assault, suffering a horrific injury because Ryan Shawcross recklessly lunged into a tackle. And please don’t tell me that he’s a great lad who didn’t intend to injure anyone. His track record speaks for itself. He broke Francis Jeffers ankle and sidelined Emmanuel Adebayor. And now he’s broken someone’s leg. At best he’s a reckless thug. Oh and an England international.

    Sources for Ryan Shawcross’ previous transgressions.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/stoke_city/7710894.stm
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/arsenal/article7043736.ece

  44. I don’t think Pulis was bad in his interview at all. In fact his comments about Ramsey, his family and the club as a whole were as they should have been i.e. that the injury was far more important than anything else.

    It was the interviewer implying that Wenger had laid into Shawcross (which of course he hadn’t) that prompted Pulis’ response. Just as they did when they suggested to Martin O’Neill that Arsene had said that Villa were a long ball team.

    Just my opinion.

    Good luck Aaron, here’s wishing you a speedy and full recovery.

  45. @Zap
    THanks for the link.

    Gooners, you know what you have to do.

  46. Hopefully Aaaron will be fine and back sooner than first feared….

    What is it about midlands clubs and Arsenal? Not just Stoke and Birminghma, but I was at Aston Villa too this season and their fans were singing that disgusting song about Eduardo, as the Stoke fans were about ramsey.

    I am sorry Flint, but you are a better person than me. I have nothing but contempt for Stoke, their neanderthal manager and the players who go out onto the pitch with intent.

    Come on Arsenal!

  47. It is reassuring to see and read from all the Arsenal blogs, not only unity and solidarity with Aaron, but universal recognition that the root of the problem is not merely Shawcross’ recklessness (for which there is long history with at least three serious victims) but the anti-football culture in England fanned by the media and the assorted pundits in their employ. Everybody is now familiar with the mantra among the anti-football fraternity that Arsenal “doesn’t like it up em”, “get in their faces”, “get stuck-in.”

    I hope we all recognize that very little will happen unless the gooner nation uses this incident uses this as a galvanizing force to demand changes from the FA and the bent, corrupt officials/referees in their employ who permit this policy by coaches like Pulis and Allardyce and their clodhopper teams to go unpunished.

    It won’t be easy as already the media is making out that poor Shawcross is a nice boy with no evil intent. Next step is to demonize Arsenal and we the supporters for being whingers and being over-emotional. Lets keep up the pressure.

  48. take a bow Patrick Barclay and Neil custis… true football correspondents.

    http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/story/0,20144,12382_5991425,00.html

  49. i am heavy on villa this afternoon aswell

    utd without rooney are mid table quality.

    the omens are good aswell… all this newton heath green and gold stuff from the fans…

    well, the actual team wore a green and gold kit against villa, at wembley in the 94 final and lost.

    3-1 villa again? :)

  50. i see the wembley pitch looks as perfect as usual :lol:

  51. Good to see Vidic back for Utd just as Torres is getting back in the Liverpool side, hopefully when the two play each other Vidic’ll get sent off again. PENALTY! Amazing.

  52. …and speaking of Vidic being sent off there’s no way he should still be on the pitch now,

  53. disgraceful.. not even a yellow

    that is disgusting.

  54. aside from the ramsey injury

    this could end up being a sweet weekend…

    utd need to get thumped.

  55. Let’s all get stuck into the media. I hear THEY don’t like it up THEM.

    What message does this kind of thing send out?

    Our league is not the best in the world, it is the most anti-football and the most physical. The England team bias is a joke and our media are shamefull. What world class player or in fact any decent player would look at the EPL and our Media and the think: I would really love to play there?

  56. @Stringfellow
    Couldn’t watch that video, that dude in the beginning makes me sick. “Ramsey is just too quick for Shawcross” …

  57. Neil Custis is and has long been a cunt. For once he’s on the side of reason, but his redemption is a long way away.

  58. I love symmetry. Pulis ‘wouldn’t give tuppence for Wenger’s opinions about his players as people‘, and nobody else would give tuppence for Pulis’s opinions about anything.

    It’s no wonder Pulis is being defensive. Some people are blaming the media for Ramsey’s injury; but I would suggest that only Shawcross himself is more culpable than Pulis. I wouldn’t be surprised if Pulis had explicitly told his players to target the youngest player on the pitch – test his appetite for the fight.

  59. By the way, they still missed the point apart from Barclay.

    Wenger never attacked Shawcross. He’s an objective man. He focused on the offence.

    But the media always personalise issues.

  60. Bsarclay wanted to side with wenger I felt. He wanted to pin the blame in the right place and yet he couldn’t quite bring himself to do it wholeheartedly. He did point out that recklessness is a part of the game in England.

    However, he went on immediately to talk about how quick the Prem. is and that these things will therefore happen.

  61. Why should Wenger not personalise the issue? Shawcross was after all the person who committed the offence.

  62. S.T. Hawke, thankyou for the bit on the television program that I watched with regularity when I lived in England. What happened to the older gentleman that used to moderate the program?

    A group of superb comments by journalists who enjoy thiking.

  63. Yes he did, but the deeper roots of the problem.. as outlined by Barclay.. is the instructions these players get from their managers.

    Let me tell you guys something you won’t know.. Tony Pulis was an utter cunt of a viscous player.. i saw him play for bourenmouth in the early 90′s.. alongside a young jamie redknapp.. and he was filth

    2 footed challenges all over the place.

    pulis is on the defensive becasue he pumps his talentless players up to go get physical.. it was his pumping up that caused the injury.

    it was that cunt mcleish who pumped his players up to get stuck into the “soft arsenal”

    the manager behind the players is never too far away from the crime scene and is in fact the mastermind.

  64. Thinking is what I meant. Thiking indeed. It sounds like the process that Sam Allardyce goes through before a game.

  65. two owls.. it was always brian woolnough who hosted the show.

    i think.

  66. Wenger shouldn’t personalize it because the issue then becomes about Shawcross and his motives. The real issue is the systematic targeting of Arsenal by opposition managers with a very specific “strategy”, the explicit approval of the British media for this “strategy”, and the implicit approval of the FA and refs by allowing this “strategy” to be implemented. The strategy being to kick Arsenal off the pitch.

  67. Poliziano,

    Because it then becomes a referendum on Shawcross which is subjective.

    What upset Wenger is not Shawcross, it’s Shawcross’ actions.

    I personally feel sorry for Shawcross, but feel he fully deserves to face any consequence of putting ramsey’s career under threat.

  68. consolsbob, they will never go the whole way in apportioning the blame because their hands are dirty too and they need to protect their sources. If they are too strong in their condemnation, they will cut themselves off from the inside track.

    As much as I would love to see manure lose, I also hate Aston ‘hold your head and dive’ Villa and loathe that small minded cretin that manages them so I am conflicted. I’ll leave it to fate to decide.

  69. Interesting comments from Hansen and Shearer, both thought that clearly Vidic should’ve been sent off. And Collins also. After Fulham last year, Scholes and Rooney sent off by Dowd, Fergie says “It’s Phil Dowd, what do you expect?”. Seems that we had another example of how managers media tactics, and especially Fergie’s, have an effect on refs.

  70. OG, I have absolutely no sympathy for Shawcross and his crocodile tears. If this had been the first time, I might have, but he has a record, so to say ‘he is not like that’ and ‘he did not mean it’ is a lie as far as I am concerned because his previous history shows a pattern of recklessness, which he has been allowed to get away with time and time again. And to rub salt into the wound, he has been rewarded with an England call up. Is that really the sort of person to represent the Country and we’re supposed to support? The England team was already full of c*nts who I could not support if my life depended upon it and now the final nail has been hammered into the coffin of my disinterest.

  71. The pathetic excuse that Ryan Shawcross is not that type of player is patently not true as he has already broken the leg of another player and tried on another Arsenal players before.
    http://content.thisis.co.uk/sentinel07/homepage/ad_panel/sentinel_backpage.pdf
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1083214/Arsenal-striker-Adebayor-ruled-weeks-Stoke-clash.html
    Stoke are team of thugs, wrestler and basket ball players who foul their ways to victory and safety in the premiership.
    Because of the little Englander mentality, teams are allowed to kick and maim other with impunity.
    Because of the injury, nobody mentionned that we had two legitimate penalties appeal turn down (unless the rules have changed and shoving and kicking is now allowed against Arsenal).
    Dany pugh committed the worst foul a two footed lunge at Ebou who saw it coming and got out of the way. If he had not moved away he would have had a broken leg like Rambo. Because the player got the ball, the refere considered as an acceptable tackle. It was not it was teckless and dangerous.
    Song was booked for winning cleanly the ball and will miss two games.
    In the mean time a thug that has wrecked the career of at least two fellow professionals will be banned for three games and will represent his country against Egypt.
    How do you reconcile that with fair and honest refereing.
    The answer is for English referee to apply the rules and stop making excuses and leeway for lower team. They are referee not equalizer. Some simple rules that are never followed by the England referee:
    + persistent fouling is a yellow card
    + overtly physical play is a reckless tackle. According to the laws, reckless tackle is at minimum a yellow card.
    + deliberate professional foul is a yellow card.
    + dangerous play that put in danger the physical integrity of another player is a red card. Even if you do not make actual contact.
    + tackle from behind is at least a yellow card and if there is contact a red card.

  72. Nasir Jones-Nasri

    I agree with Passenal once again. I have absolutely zero sympathy for that thug. My girl’s cousin is a Stoke supporter and said the same exact twist break bollocks as the other Stoke fan up thread. What a joke.

  73. Passenal,

    I thought his tears were genuine. And he asked the ref to go back and express his sympathies with Ramsey. That was decent behaviour.

    In a game chock full of cuntish behaviour, his included, decency should be appreciated.

    It’s like a teenager who drives too fast round a bend, and knocks down a pedestrain who then dies.

    You’d feel sorry for him. Not the least because his l,ife will never be the same again, and it’s a bit down to bad luck as well as recklessness.

  74. It’s a disgrace that the Premier League and FA will not do a damn thing about the consistent thuggery we have had to endure from Northern teams for 10 years now.

    Now is the time to get behind the team, and hope that Ramsey’s injury has a galvanising effect on out season.

    Fuck all the non-footballing thug team’s and their moron managers, our class will shine though in the end, and we will have the last laugh.

  75. Fuck feeling sorry for Shawcross.

    He is a thug, nothing less, and should be banned for life.

    He has previous, and plenty of it.

  76. Twist break can happen on arm when somebody is twisting your arm.
    It can also happen on leg when you twisted and put all your weight on one leg. However it does not happen if you do not twist.
    In the case of Aaron Ramsey, the fracture is a clean double fracture and not a twisting fracture of the fibula.
    A Clean double fracture occur only when something hit your leg with great force. He got kicked and that is the reason of the fracture.

  77. You would have thought that Ramsey was in with a very good chance of playing in most of the up coming games with Diaby out.

    I’m surprised there hasn’t been more media outrage. I suppose they always seem to back the ‘good English pro’. God knows why.

    They would be bemoaning the loss of Rooney or Gerrard if it happened to them and demonising the player who mistimed their challenge.

    Even though I don’t believe that Shawcross wen’t out to do Ramsey and wouldn’t want to see him demonised…. it is about time the media as a whole makes a stand. It’s not right that players are allowed to be overly physical against Arsenal and should be stopped.

  78. the good news is that it is a clean break… far better for the healing process.

  79. I personally feel more sorry for Ramsey; but we’re all different.

    What is Shawcross if you abstract away his actions? Shawcross is the sum of his actions. So are we all.

  80. My real anger is towards the media and the so called pundits who say the only way to be Arsenal is to kick them off the pitch. It’s a bloody disgrace and no surprise that people like Fuller (before the FA cup tie) and Kevin Nolan (at Bolton) come out just before playing us and are quoted as saying they’ll rough us up. These injuries that have occured are a result of that thug mentality that teams adopt when playing us. 3 players with broken legs/ankles in 4 seasons says it all. Coincidence? Accidents? Intentional? Who knows but I’m angry as fuck.

    Here’s something else too, can anybody name another club who’s had these types of injuries happen over the last couple of years. Cause I can’t think of one single club or player who’ve had legs broken over tackles from other players.

  81. As I expained earlier, Shawcross was upset because he realised he would look bad.

  82. Nasir Jones-Nasri

    I see someone finally got in those c*nts at Le Moan’s ear for that awful, terribly misguided post regarding our finances. Those slimy f*ckers should be ashamed of themselves.

  83. Sorry OG @ 4.20 pm – his sorrow is too little too late. He should have considered the potential consequences of his action before he took it. I watched a clip of his assault on Ade from last season and the self-satisfied smugness of the man afterwards is sickening. He intended to hurt his opponent, he’s only sorry because it was more serious than he intended, but when you dive in so recklessly, you lose control of the outcome. He will serve his 3 match ban, which will allow him time to get over his sorrow and he’ll be back playing in the FA cup final if Stoke progress that far, while his victim is sitting there with his leg in plaster and in pain. I will not waste a moment of sympathy on him. Aaron Ramsey is the only person deserving of sympathy in this situation.

  84. Poliziano,

    There goes the righteous anger again. Typical conservative.

    You can be sorry for culprit and victim. It’s merely compassion. Having compassion for the culprit’s plight does not diminish one iota from the compassion you feel for the victim.

    The metaphysical thing about how a person is the sum of his actions misses the point.

    The same way it is irrelevant and silly to rally around Shawcross on the basis of good character, it is not necessary to condemn Shawcross’ person.

    It is his action which is under scrutiny.

  85. Poliz, you can’t state as fact why Shawcross did anything. Only he knows why he was crying, the same way only he knows why he flung himself into that tackle.

  86. About 4 consecutive Villa crosses have been defended by a man who shouldn’t even be on the pitch, this is a joke.

  87. Passenal,

    You’re right. His remorse was too late.

    It’s a good point you make about his actions after that tackle on Adebayor. He even thought it fit to take on Arsene in the media when he was clearly in the wrong.

    Having said that, I do feel sorry for him. Feelings are feelings.

  88. Ole you cannot separate the action from the individual. One action could be construed as an accident, 3 times is a pattern of behaviour that calls into question the character of the individual.

  89. The remorse came after the red card from what I could see.

  90. Ole, you are full of shit. Since you strike me as one of the coarsest, least sympathetic people imaginable, I find it hard to credit that you are shedding tears for Ramsey or for Shawcross.

  91. “Feelings are feelings.” That’s true – truce?

  92. It was hard to tell what Shawcross was feeling by looking at his moronic, pig faced knuckle-dragging appearance.

  93. “Only he knows why he was crying.”

    On the contrary, Vince, he is the least likely to know, since he is the most likely to credit the explanation most flattering to himself.

  94. Passenal,

    Good people do bad things and vice versa.

    Wenger was wrong to attack Matt Taylor’s person, and he realised it, hence the retraction of his remarks.

    Even if Shawcross is a thug, the thing we want punished is the horrible tackle on Ramsey.

  95. I’m surprised at how little fuss the Welsh have made over this. They are probably too focused on the rugby at the moment.

  96. Such a high concentration of tossers at Wembley at the moment. Perfect time for a Monty Python-style giant foot to hammer down and squish the lot of them. Right at the final whistle!

  97. proud of our boys!

  98. Poliziano,

    Actually I did almost shed tears after the game yesterday.

    No I did not shed tears for Shawcross.

    I am not even allowing myself to consider the fact that ramsey might not recover fully….what a disaster that would be. I am agitated about him. I am angry that an entire football culture has allowed this to happen.

    I am concerned about how our players must be feeling. They get kicked everywhere. Nobody even considers that wrong. They’re labelled weak etc.

    They’ve seen team mate after team mate suffer from horrendous injuries. They themselves must be deeply emotional and confused .

    and yes, I feel for them.

    So fuck you Poliziano

  99. lucky boy my ass!

  100. As a public figure Wenger has to hold back in his comments Ole, but I don’t have to thankfully. Compare and contrast this situation with the condemnation Gallas faced after legitimately going for a 50/50 ball against Bolton. Despite all the fuss, the Bolton player was back playing the next game but the media were ready to hang draw and quarter him despite Gallas having no previous history of bad tackles. There are so many people falling over themselves to sympathize with Shawcross that he does not need mine in fact he has the England call up to soften the blow.

  101. @ Ole Gunner

    I’m still not clear WHY you feel sorry for Shawcross as well. He’s OK physically, and he is being supported by his club and most of the football establishment.

    “It’s like a teenager who drives too fast round a bend, and knocks down a pedestrain who then dies.

    I understand this analogy, but would you feel for the teenager the THIRD time he killed a pedestrian while speeding?

  102. All true. Notice I don’t advocate that anybody should feel sorry for Shawcross.

  103. Love those clips Notlager!!

  104. Excellent point P. That Gallas incident will live long in my memory.

  105. Fun Gunner,

    Even after the 3rd time I’d still feel sorry for the teenager.

    Feeling sorry for someone, at least for me, doesn’t mean I excuse the person’s actions or hope to release him from his transgressions.

    But enough of this….

    Let’s hope this can change the dynamic. And the establishment acknowledges we’ve got a problem.

  106. Ole, in the time I have been reading ACLF, I have seen you display sympathy for just two people: John Terry and Ryan Shawcross. On the opposite side of the balance, your default feeling to others seems to be hatred. Although you tax me with my righteous anger, I am not ashamed to be angry about a 19 year old footballer having his leg broken and perhaps having his career ended before it has begun; nor am I ashamed to be angry about a man who cheats on his wife with one of her friends and the mistress of his own best friend. If that makes me a typical conservative, or a typical anything else, so be it. If you’re honest, you’re no stranger to righteous anger yourself. Your righteous anger, though, tends to be directed at trivial mistakes made by our reserve defenders. I suppose it’s a matter of priorities.

  107. @ Passenal at 5:02pm

    And interesting to say the least that pundits felt able to say categorically that Gallas was “malicious” and going out to injure Davies…whereas in Shawcross’s case, they are quick to point out that you can’t know what it going on in the player’s head, but nevertheless they are adamant that they DO know that he was not setting out to hurt anyone.

    Not that I do think Shawcross was trying to break Aaron’s leg, but you get the point.

  108. And the stupid…Ryan is not a malicious boy endorsements really rile don’t they?

  109. It’s really heating up now.

  110. Poliziano,

    You’re just sore that I don’t buy into your indecent interest in John Terry’s personal life.

    Terry has to be my single most detested character in football outside of Moaninho and Howard Webb.

  111. ‘The fracture was successfully reduced last night in surgery.’ Thank heavens. However, as Stringfellow has shown us with his excellent references, this was not the first occassion that this Stoke player has broken another players’ leg. Stringfellow you are on your toes today and thankyou for these excellent references.

    Ultimately, every player is responsible for his tackles and that is the way it should be. Saying your sorry or shedding tears is essentially irrelevant. Every player must control the vigor of his tackles. He and only he is responsible. The Stoke player has a history of violent tackles and the FA should consider at least a season ban.

  112. http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/official-statement-aaron-ramsey-s-injury

    During yesterday’s match against Stoke City, Aaron Ramsey sustained fractures to the tibia and fibula in his right leg. Yesterday evening he underwent surgery.

    What does is excatly mean? Was this the clean break everyone was hoping for and will he be back for the start of next season?

  113. let’s all agree that Stoke fans who sings ‘You’ve only got one leg’ are sc*m.

  114. Nasir Jones-Nasri

    You gotta love our captain. What a classy player Cesc Fabregas is.

  115. pleasure, two owls.

    there is usually much bitching between gooners on these blogs…

    i have more than played my part in these bitchfests in recent times…

    i sense a coming together following stoke win/ramsey injury.

    we are on the precipice of greatness, fellow arsenal supporters…

    lets cut the crap and stick together.

  116. We’ve got Cesc Fabregas, we’ve got Cesc Fabregas, we’ve got Cesc Frabregas………………….

  117. “let’s all agree that Stoke fans who sings ‘You’ve only got one leg’ are sc*m.”

    I disagree, notlager. It must have been terrible for them to witness that injury on their own ground. I really feel for them when I consider how uneasy they will feel from now on whenever they visit their stadium. I expect those songs were just a show of bravado to conceal their profound suffering. Notice, though, that I am not saying anyone else should pity them, since not everyone possesses my infinite reserves of compassion.

  118. “So fuck you Poliziano”

    Is this the first time OG has insulted not a doomer but a legend of ACLF?

    Tsk tsk. All over the likes of Terry and other English scum that believe the media hype.

  119. My favourite Youtube video of all time:

    One of my most fervent wishes. To see that repeated in another cup final.

  120. Not at all, Maria. Only the other day, he accused me of consorting with men who perform unmentionable acts in airport toilets.

  121. “Would they do so if the suffering were from Rooney or Gerrard….?”

    Yogi if it were their beloved gerrard, rooney, lamps, heck even JT – Shawcross would be crucified by media, pundits and like minded managers.

    Similar to how some sections of the media are trying to portray terry as the victim and bridge as the one to shame a nation.

  122. Some people on here really take away some of the class of this site with the consistent drivel they spout.

  123. I believe many teams reflect their manager`s personality, hence thug footballers turned managers like Pulis , Mcleish & Allardyce turning out sides who like to dish it out.

    I have zero sympathy for Shawcross & agree with PZ – his tears are to cover his embarrassment at being found out as a footballer.

  124. The media is just as much to blame in creating a mountain out of a mole hill and fanning the flames for this get stuck into arsenal campaign. Rather than having an intelligent debate about bad tackles and some debate into the systematic targeting of players we get subjected to crap about swinging Terry and Bridges handshake and randy Ashley Cole.

    Gallas’s challenge gets called dangerous and cheating, forget about Fabregas getting stamped on at the Reebok. His sit in following the horror of Birmingham gets chastised and labelled gutless . Cue spewings of gushing character testimonials for Taylor and Shawcross..Oh they would never do that…but obviously Gallas would?I know journos have to satisfy their paymasters and look for the most controversial headlines but the double standards are sickening.

    What is gutless is not admitting there is something rotten in the game that needs to be stamped out and the FA an FIFA and the rest of the Prem Managers keeping quiet about it. This should be stamped out like racism. Wenger should shout his message from the highest mountain like Fergie has been doing for years!One Arsenal.

  125. Shawcross is not a footballer.

  126. @ Ole
    Even after the 3rd time I’d still feel sorry for the teenager.

    OK, I obviously haven’t made myself clear. What I can’t understand is why you would (I assume) attribute feelings of remorse to him after repeat offending. If he felt bad about it, why would he keep doing it? It’s not as if he is an alcoholic who repeatedly gets violent, or someone who has “anger management” issues. And he is not in fact a teenager, either, he is the same age as Cesc, isn’t he?

    Feeling sorry for someone, at least for me, doesn’t mean I excuse the person’s actions or hope to release him from his transgressions.

    I agree with that in principle. Having worked with criminals in the past I don’t dismiss people as “evil”, but understanding how people come to do the things they do is not the same as feeling sympathy. And a prerequisite of said sympathy is that the person accepts responsibility, which Shawcross has failed to do. Three times. The tears and self-serving apology look like a combination of self-preservation and fear of the consequences to himself.

  127. media silence is deafening.

    we getting a break down of how nice a character Shawcross is and how he is close to his mum.

    None of the media are debating or even recognising that they have been guilty along with others of perpurtrating the myth “they dont like it up em”.

    Stoke openly admit before games what kind of tactics they will deploy on us, and were just meant to accept it cause if we give it back – they say we are indiciplined and digraceful.
    while we can have players maimed and careers set back , we get a character review of what nice guys the perpurtrators are and how devily deceptively fast we are to put our limbs into the path of the unfortunate and well meaning leg breaking tackle.

    FC*K the media

  128. westwickhamgooner

    stringfellow @ 3.50 it was jimmy hill who used 2 do sunday supplement. nice avatar by the way.

  129. yes of course he did.

    thanks for that westwickhamgooner

  130. fair play to Patrick Barclay and Neil Custis.

    saying it as it is

  131. That is the name that I was looking for westwickgooner. Old big chin himself. And you are correct it was always on a Sunday.

  132. What is it about the English media and their formulaic and totally predictable reactions to injuries of this severity?

    It’s like they all have a piece of paper that goes like this; Horrible injury = He’s not a malicious lad and shouldn’t be raked over the coals for his actions.

    This seems like total bullshit to me. I played football and I know that there are horrible c*nts who like to hurt people. What makes Shawcross so special then? What is it about Shawcross that inspires such angelic thoughts? Has he not had a record of dangerous, malicious tackles? Not even Materazzi, whom I loathe, is as bad as this piece of shit. So why does he and the likes of Taylor and Smith get away with being angelic players who just happen to break legs? Are the FA doing a PR campaign in order to distance the league’s image from the dark days of the eighties?

  133. Lol @ Pz.

    He did WHAT???

  134. Shawcross has always had a history of violence; Jeffers, Ade and now Rambo. Its always been the same defence line by his proponents. Just read his assistants coach reaction to this tackle on Jeffers, he actually blamed it on his being frustrated that jeffers was playing so well but there was no malice in the tackle and they where worst tackles that don’t get carded. He went further and it seemed like purlis last night comment too was like a copy and paste of his. These people are a joke.

  135. If the FA really want some WWF, I’d recommend that AW just sends out Sol to flatten the entire opposing X1 in the first eleven seconds of the match, one after the other, including a few belly flops, pile drivers & some gratuitous chest thumping for the next eleven games. What a spectacle! At the least, unlike in WWF it’ll have some real blood.

    With Sol sulking to one side muttering about “Arry’s occult twitch, all 11 opponents could line up towards the SkyMugs cameras (no handshake’s, or milkshakes) and chant:

    “We who are about to die salute you, Lord Rupert!”

    Maybe if Sol agreed to not press charges against Agent X the FA would agree?

    I’d pay to watch that and not the farce I saw yesterday.

  136. I agree with Gooner4life, Passenal, Fungunner, Pz and G69.

  137. Fair play to the courage of Patrick Barclay and Neil Custis they actually admitted to the fact that there was a gang up on Arsene by other managers, and they make an easy target out of him and try to create the impression he is a complainer!!!!

  138. There is a tendency amongst people to find sanity just by going against popular opinion. That is what exactly OG trying to do here. As much as I appreciate his blog (today’s was a fantastic piece of emotion), I totally disagree when he tries to detach the player and his actions. I don’t quite get the idea that a player could not be held responsible for his actions, it the action that has to be condemned. I am sorry, but It’s nothing but trying to trivialize a blatant act of violence and to provide a leeway to someone who doesn’t deserve that.
    Both Shawcross and Pulis should hang their head in shame for potentially finishing a career which had the potential to be the greatest of them all. Who knows whether we would see the same Ramsey or not? In my humble opinion, and with a lump in my throat, I believe we won’t. History provides us the proof, with Eduardo, Cisse, Larssen, we have seen that it is possible to overcome the scar physically but instincts are difficult to control.
    Ramsey would see a Shawcross tackle coming every time he touches the ball in a crowded area as Eduardo saw a Taylor lunge yesterday when he would have finished it with his eyes shut two years back.

  139. Another thing that makes me sick is watching the tackle on RVP by that dirty defender and seeing his teammtes slap him on the back. It said to me that he had carried out quite well the instructions of his manager that was to ‘get in their faces’.

    Italy knew the likes of RVP would destroy them in a footballing match so decided that they would allow to do so. The result being RVP missing the rest of a season which promised so much just because the Italians didn’t want to be embarrassed.

  140. Bloody animals!!!

  141. The RvP injury was unfortunate, and totally different to the Eduardo, Diaby and Ramsey situations. It was a good defensive block and RvP got caught. These things can happen unfortunately.

    The only part that rankles is that happened in a nothing fixture that shouldn’t have taken place. That friendly weekend was so pointless.

  142. Great write-up. Never been prouder of this team. Never been as despondent about an injury as this one. A lot of positives yesterday, but it’s hard to dwell on them in light of everything.

  143. Blunt – Diaby is an example of a player who is coming back to his best following a horror tackle.

    I have great belief that we will see Ramsey come back.. and be an even better player than he is now.

    The only issue is that he will no doubt miss most of next season.. so it may be nearly 2 seasons until we see this.

    He was definately earmarked as the man to fill the void should cesc go to barca.

    There is even more reason that cesc will stick around for another 2 seasons at least.

  144. I totally agree with you Blunt Gunner. When I started watching football in the eighties, whatever little bit of English football that made its way to America was always tinged with violence and menace. The hooligans, the terrace disasters the violent tackles from players like Vinnie Jones etc..

    Something has changed in the last fifteen years or so. Now thugish players are not glorified as bad boys because that hurts the league’s image. Now the English game is a model for everyone to follow. No longer are there fights in the terraces like there are in Italy or Argentina. A man can bring his family out to the game with no expectation of harm being done to them. The league has worked extra hard to show a less menacing face. That’s probably why players like Shawcross get the default; He’s not a bad lad. Look, he cried when he left the pitch. Only a psycho would leave the pitch smiling if he had caused an injury like that.

    It’s all a fucking attempt to white wash whatever ills are in the game and it’s sickening. And I totally agree with Shotta about quality players not wanting to come to England if they see that there’s a possibility that their careers can be ended by some well hard but lovable English lad.

    The Mancs who compare Ronaldo’s treatment to the way ours get treated are all dellusional. I beyt if you ask Ronaldo why he left, I guarantee that the physicality of the English game was right upo there with the millions he received with Real Madrid. So if the FA stays quiet about this latest incident and the English game carries on the way it is, they will lose all the big name foreigners and the league will go to pot. Can you imagine watching a league full of Stokes and Boltons? I can’t. And so would a lot of fans around the world.

  145. Have to totally disagree with those who say that Eduardo will never be the same player.

    How else should he react with that chance considering the context of yesterdays game? He is only human. Maybe he should just have used the right foot and all excessive chat is irrelevant?
    It was an effective & important substitution from AW. The haters favourite pet hate (Denilson is not a pet hate), Old Rosicknote didn’t look too shabby either.

    Eduardo’s not even had a full season back, it’ll be irrational to even comment on how one thinks he’s recovered till mid-way through next season, give him a chance please!

  146. one thing to bear in mind when assessing whether or not ramsey can return to be a better player…

    the greatest of them all… Diego Armando Maradona suffered a leg break, courtesy of a horror tackle by the butcher of bilbao, Goikoetxea.

    Diego was 23 at the time… 3 years later he single handedly tore every team Argentina came across.. a nicely formed, new arsehole.

    Ramsey can comeback, and he can fulfil his potential.

  147. It may be a fair observation to conclude that like Hleb, Edu(?) & and the Lesser Ronaldo (by his own admission), that Eduardo may prolong his career or benefit from playing in a more sane league.

  148. Henrik Larsson had a horrible one in the 90s. His best years were yet to come though.

    Djibril Cissé’s was ugly as well, and when he came back he was just as mediocre as before.

  149. BluntGooner

    Oh my, oh my….

    Now I’m under the cosh for expressing sympathy for a player.

    Have I excused his actions? No

    I think it is always wrong in all cases to personalise issues, whether it is the media saying Wenger slammed Fletcher and calls him anti-football or to make it a case against Shawcross as a person.

    Obviously Arsene felt the same. The only time he mentioned Shawcross’ name in all the comments was when he said “spare me articles of how nice a bloke Shawcross is”. When talking about the afternoon’s events he focused on the guy’s actions.

  150. If I were a good player looking to have ten plus
    year career where I could make enough money to retire comfortably and have as little long term damage done to my body, I wouldn’t come to the EPL. I’d go to Spain or Italy instead. And, sadly, the EPL will miss out on this calibre of player if they don’t clean up their act. And it’s not too fucking hard to do either, by the way. Just have a meeting with all the managers and tell them that their teams will be discounted points or fined if their disciplinary records are beyond a certain standard. And not bullshit fines either. Fines that would eat up a significant amount of resources.

  151. England will never win anything either Serge, not that I care.

    But at a guess I can pick A.Hole so far in this WC, Rooney twice, Owen twice, Beckham twice who England have carried into tournaments completely crocked. Laughably by managers who claimed their players were ‘match-fit’.

    No other country has such a record. Brazil kept loosing The Phenomenon Ronaldo, but apart from that individual example…???

  152. “During yesterday’s match against Stoke City, Aaron Ramsey sustained fractures to the tibia and fibula in his right leg. Yesterday evening he underwent surgery.

    What does is excatly mean? Was this the clean break everyone was hoping for and will he be back for the start of next season?”

    I’d like to know the answer too Maria. It’s a shame Frank is not around. Does anyone else know the answer?

  153. The Premier League and FA should have acted long ago. It’s simply not right that teams boast about using untoward tactics, couched in poor euphemisms like “stop them from playing”. against Arsenal.

    Somehow, being a footballing side has been spun into a bad thing.

  154. *No other country has such a record of their best or most important squad members being injured in the build up to tournaments, do they?

  155. I like what OG says – or at least how I interpret what he says.

    If you see Shawcross as part of a bigger system – with pundits, press, team meetings and pre-match teamtalks encouraging lesser lights to get stuck in because Arsenal players are supposedly effete showponies – then you can say that he is a victim in a way.

    The game moves so quickly, and the instruction he’ll have remembered most clearly was to get about Arsenal because they don’t like it up em. He was following instructions, and if it hadn’t been him maiming one of our guys then, sooner or later, it would have been some other clogger from another mid-table or relegation-battling club.

    I think it might help to remove Shawcross from the equation to get the real issue. As I see it it’s this culture of accepted brutality in English football.

    This has legitimised 5 years of dangerous cheating against us.

    I like to think that Shawcross’s tears came with a half-realisation that this isn’t how football’s meant to be played. Of course, this has been obvious to Arsenal fans for ages, but we get called arrogant when we point it out.

  156. Passenal

    According to my brothers who are physio/instructors in a martial art, it sounds like a ‘clean break’. But as each case or injury is unique it’s not appropriate to generalise. I’ll avoiding all media chatter about his injury & will wait for the club to release information.

    -

    On a much lighter, perhaps irrelevant subject, but still on Stoke, did anyone else find the Stoke pitch hilarious?

    After reading some of OOU’s comments of a clash of Football Schools, I spent most of the game, up until the injury, watching the Stoke pitch. Every time a pass didn’t bobble itself into a new direction I cheered, the touchline was the same distance from the penalty box as the six yard line!
    I drove my fellow gunners mad with the mantra of,

    ‘They need to lump it & hoof it’,

    And lo & behold, Captain Fabregas gave Bendtner the opportunity to prove his quality, yet again.

  157. Poor text, I mean that Bendtner has proven his quality, again and again.

  158. Shawcross might well have been led astray by his manager and others; but he is not victim, since nothing bad has happened to him. On the contrary, he is a beneficiary, since by their nefarious tactics his team has gained success that by its talent it does not deserve.

  159. calcot, whilst there is merit in your argument, it is rather reminiscent of the Nazi concentration camp commandant defence of ‘I was only following orders’. At what point is the individual responsible for his own actions? There might be some mitigation if you take the cultural context into account, but we all have to answer to our own consciences in the end.

  160. If Shawcross has only to answer to his own conscience, he is lucky, as I’m sure it has told him he has already suffered more than enough. Those tears he shed during yesterday’s match have washed his soul to its pristine condition. We must hope that Shawcross’s successors have to answer to other people’s consciences.

  161. wow bendtner must be brimming with confidence he looks so cocky chewing his gum dont he?!

    well he must be brimming with confidence, i hope well unleash him against burnley, or at least his head against burnley…

    does anyone know when a.a is expected to return?

  162. i used the same phrase twice ignore that…

  163. ——–almunia-

    -sagna verm–campbell–cliche——————
    ——song–fab—rosicky———–
    ——eboue–bendtner-nasri——–

  164. …is the team i hope well put out on saturday.

    this team can definitely beat burnley whilst resting key players for porto next midweek like arshavin, diaby, gallas, walcott, eduardo..

  165. I was livid about Shawcross’ tackle on Adebayor last season. That was even more maniacal than this one. A completely unnecessary tackle.

    But we do have a problem here…the media and many coaches keep socialising people into believing that any extent of physicality is allowed so long as you don’t mean any malice.

    On another Arsenal blog, we ended up contrasting this tackle that broke Shawcross’ leg with the Gallas tackle on Davies, the Bolton player.

    It was an instructive point because if you watch the following picture of the gallas tackle: http://twitpic.com/zv125 you can see that Gallas’ technique was the classic technique…the right technique to tackle. He had his weight behind the ball, his tackling foot is sliding along the ground, and he’s using moderate force. You can say that Davies was lucky that Gallas plays football the right way. Had he jumped in like Shawcross, lunged, raised his tackling foot above the ball and above the ground, he could have done serious damage. This point explains why Gallas’ tackle wasn’t dangerous.

    Now, Shawcross comes from places where managers have instructed him to dive in, get stuck in, etc….

    You’ll get a different set of results.

    You can say that without excusing the player from his transgression or even suggesting his behaviour has not been thuggish which it has been.

  166. A suggestion for resolving the problem in the future: a simple rule requiring that whenever a player is injured in an unfair challenge, the perpetrator should be banned until the victim is declared fit to return. Fair chllenges would of course go unpunished, even if they were to result in an injury. If footballers embarking on an unfair tackle incurred the same risk as the forwards they assault, their behaviour would be entirely different.

  167. Do you want intent and malice?

    I’m not sure any one noticed or mentioned this because I didn’t read all the notes, but in the first half Showcross was so angry at Cesc for tackling him from behind, he waited till the second half and took it out on Ramsey so the referee wouldn’t see it as retaliation.

    This is your player you f*cking Pulis

  168. Now Rafa B is hitting out (not literally unfortunately) at Fat Sam & thugburn`s style of play.

    Outside the top 7/8 teams in the EPL there are only a few who want to play proper football IMO.

    Fulham (managed by a gentleman), West `Am, Wigan & Pompey (all with `foreign managers). The rest are all functional, physical & dreadful to watch.

    What they all have in common is British managers.

  169. Wellington Silva scored for Fluminense today…his first professional goal

    About Shawcross….did anyone else notice he didn’t deny the tackle. He didn’t say it was accidental. Just that he meant no malice.

  170. Paulie Walnuts,

    You left out Burnley.

  171. Maria,

    Ole Gunner tol me to fuck off a long time ago, and I’m not a doomer. Since then, he’s been perfectly reasoned in his comments to me.

  172. oh yeah and i agree with what stringfellow hawke said earlier why are we fighting when its a time to stick together.

    come on arsenal come on arsenal we are arsenal come on arsenaaaal

    you can send a get well message to ramsey, its on arsenals official site

  173. zap.

    Song is suspended for 2 games after he recieved his 10th yellow card of the season.

  174. 2009/2010 players who have won the crowd over:

    Diaby
    Eboue
    Song
    Ramsey

    who will come through next season:

    Almunia
    Bentdner
    Denilson

  175. lagooner,

    I apologise for my bad behaviour.

  176. Rooney is tearing up the league and so in response every opposing defender has the obligation to clatter into him without thinking about the implications.
    After all the opponent has the right to feel aggrieved at how well Rooney is playing and he needs to be shown that quickness of feet and thought are simply not allowed in this league.
    This nonsense will end this league far sooner than greedy and incompetent owners will.

  177. song is suspended zap(2 games)

  178. is he, shit.

  179. i guess denilson will take over then..

    salam chamakh how was it yesterday?

  180. As for Shawcross, only the most dense people would say that he wasn’t shocked by what he had done. He had the same expression on his face as the other players had. He was truly sickened. The fact that he had committed the violence probably made him more traumatized by what happened.

    However his trauma is nothing compared to Ramsey’s and while we can understand his guilt, he should have to bear the consequences. Just as other’s have said, someone can recklessly cause a horrific car accident, and feel remorse and guilt for what they see. They still have to live with the consequences of their actions.

  181. No need OG-I was equally as bad.

  182. Paulie

    Roy Hodgson is English and proof that there is no requirement for native coaches to continually have useless lumps as the core of their team.

    Oh wait, he has a footballing education rather than brimming his CV full of mediocrity, taking something from every nation in which he has managed.

    YW

  183. http://twitpic.com/15wpr6

    To prove how dirty Arsenal are this random commenter has to go back to 1988! And he like some anti-Arsenal Arsenal fans can’t wait till Wenger is gone and we’re “back to being a mid-table team”. Oh thou great internet!

  184. Yes Passenal, I was thinking the same thing. It’s like a (far, far) more trivial version of the stuff that came up with denazification.

    I just think the lie has been so widely accepted – celebrated even – that people genuinely believed it was a fair way of beating us.

    I’d say that Shawcross is a victim of this attitude, but obviously not in as severe a way as Ramsey was.

    Shawcross has got a career-threatening injury on his conscience now, and he probably didn’t realise he was doing anything wrong.

    He’s part of a team that was geared to play this way and I bet he got a lot of praise in the dressing room for the way he played against us in the away game last season. He kicked us and they won. I’m sure they were delighted with him.

    Talk to a Bolton or Hull fan about the way their teams play against us and they’ll tell you it’s a man’s game and injuries happen. Shawcross is a product of this culture.

  185. “but the anti-football culture in England fanned by the media and the assorted pundits in their employ. Everybody is now familiar with the mantra among the anti-football fraternity that Arsenal “doesn’t like it up em”, “get in their faces”, “get stuck-in.””

    Shotta, English football has nothing else but “get stuck-in” and “get in their faces” there is only 3 or 4 teams who play football or come close to it. The rest of English players & English teams would be greatly exposed if they try to play football. They have no talent for it, they’re already exposed in the international arena.

    All they have are the 6’5″ rugby fit players in the mold of Showcross, Taylor, Terry, and the like to call heroes.

    And those talentless English players attack the talented foreign ones who made the EPL what it is today. If anything, those talentless mugs should be thankful to those foreign players for giving them a league… otherwise the EPL would be long forgotten.

    It’s sick, very sick.

    I will use Maria’s phrase..

    Allardyce is a parasite (Don’t care to spell his name right)
    Brown is a parasite
    Pulis is a parasite

    And the list goes on

  186. I was stood next to an AFC fan who disagreed with me about the abhorrent nature of the tackle.

    He was lucky he agreed with me when I asked him if Shawcross was ‘out of control’, otherwise I might have been tempted to, you know, snap his leg in two.

    Just to prove a point. As you do.
    No malice, or intent to harm.

    Honest Guv.

  187. Calcot,

    I don’t think the nazi analogy is apt at all.

    Today on another Arsenal blog I was debating with the blogger, who said Shawcross’ tackle was accidental.

    We ended up talking about the Gallas tackle on a Bolton player, Davis. This tackle: http://twitpic.com/zv125

    If you look at the picture, you see that Gallas’ tackling technique is the classic technique taught by proper coaches. His weight is behind the ball, his tackling foot is sliding along the ground, he is in control of his body and his movements are measured. From his hands you can see he’s slightly pulling out of the tackle.

    That’s probably why he ended up doing no damage to the Bolton player. Had he flown in, lunging with serious force the situation could have been different…which is what Shawcross did.

    Contrast with Shawcross who’s been told to get stuck in, fly into tackles etc.

    You soon see why Shawcross would injure other players.

    Saying that would not in any way excuse his actions, nor would it be advocating that he not face the consequence of his actions.

  188. how convenient, rooney is a doubt for england on wednesday.

    is he scared that the pharoahs will break his leg?

  189. Brilliant post Ole at 9:16 p.m.

  190. salam zap,

    our fans were fantastic,stoke is a shit place,we are going to win the league and algeria will be crowned world champions come july.

  191. I do lower the standard compared to you OleG, thanks for taking the effort to put that comparison into words, great material.

  192. Some additional thoughts’

    Many of today’s excellent post and fair summations, expose and expertly clarify the problems the premier league in particular and English football in general faces today

    In a world cup year we will be pitched against technically gifted foreign opponents with our own so called committed players. Hopefully our foreign coach will be able to curb the worst of our inbuilt excesses but should one fail and commit the kind of tackle and inflict the kind of subsequent injury visited upon Arsenal trio of unfortunates in recent times the ramifications for English football will be horrendous and doesn’t continence thinking about

    It unfortunate that the megga money available to dimwits like Alladyce who in my view, started this up and at em philosophy, with the Neanderthals he laughingly called footballers at Bolton. ( You notice even he didn’t have the balls to call them players) Has resulted in a chain of equally talentless nonentities like Brown, Pullis and the demented Neil Warlord, Warlock hiding there brutishness behind a plethora of sports psychiatrist, computer analyst and the like.

    All this has to my eyes a touch of the mumbo jumbo used by Voodoo practitioners in other climes to make them feel invincible against the modern weapons of the foes they are pitted against. Doomed to failure but never the less capable of causing damage in the short term.

    Will the Football authorities react, do they dare react, or would the outcry from the money men be so loud at the thought of their possible eviction from the gravy train that is the premier league. Cause these officials with their comfortable sinecures and large incomes to hide their heads in the sand again and carry on as is.

    My guess is they would choose the latter, so talented players will continue to be kicked at will by these licensed assassins until, A Rooney, Gibbs, Gerrard or Lampard are taken out, then and only then maybe some thought be given to a better way

  193. haha i can imagine stoke being crap

    yeah we will be champs

    viva l’algerie

  194. Very, very sad for Ramsey he was progressing very nicely then a thug takes at least a year of his career and could possibly end it just like that. Let’s hope he comes back the same player. The good thing is he will have Eduardo to talk to because mentally its a very tough thing to go through on your own without knowing. Eduardo will give him a lot of advice and hope that he will come back as good as ever.
    But I saw a player who will replace Ramsey next season. Jack Wilshire, this kid is really awesome, he has very silky skills with a touch of aggression in him, and he loves a scrap with anyone. I feel Wenger will speed him up next season no doubt. Coyle praised his performances so far.
    Even Merida if he stays hopefully and I think he should and wait for his chance. he has all the skills to make it at the top.

  195. Yogi,

    You call it right on Roy Hodgson. A classy man who if I remember rightly learnt his trade abroad (Sweden ?).

    Ole, I hadn`t forgotten Burnley – they just didn`t fit into my argument. Well spotted !

  196. OG,

    Nice comparison between Gallas and Shawcross.

    It’s sure to be a quiet week, and there’ll be more opportunities to debate this one. Maybe I’ll be able to articulate what I think in the meantime.

    When Ramsey was getting carried off I consoled myself with the thought that we’d finally get an opportunity to challenge this attitude that’s been around for the last 5 years.

    Going at Shawcross doesn’t do much though. Nobody really knows what his intentions were. And what we consider justice would be taken with indignation by the likes of Stoke and Blackburn – to the point where they’d feel like they’re being victimised. They already believe they get a raw deal because they’re not big clubs.

    On the Gallas thing again – I hate, hate, hate the way debate gets stifled by the all the one-upping between rival fans. You know: “You can’t complain about xxxx – not after your player did xxxx in a different match.”

  197. Finsbury,

    Well I’m happy my views have any resonance.

  198. 1 paranoid point I just heard:

    What do EDS, Diaby & Ramsey have in common?

    Each was struck down in their 1st extended run of games for Arsenal. Someone I know is convinced they’re stopping our new strong players before they get too established.

    Paranoid. But just how much?

  199. OleG…if you really want paranoid. Then it’s a more of a statement to Any young player who decides to join Arsenal over the likes of the Mancs…this is what awaits you…broken legs, and maybe more than broken legs and ankles in the future. Arsenal will not protect you, and you’ll be the easy target of this kind of brutal treatment.

    If you want my opinion and the solution to this problem as I mentioned in my yesterday’s comment…Only US have the solution.

    If the media & football managers incite violence against Arsenal players, then the solution is: An for an eye, and the one who started it is the one to blame.

    If you want this myth to stop you counter it with exactly the same measure and action, or even worse. We can’t continue to play the victim because nothing will change until we break a leg for a leg, an arm for an arm, and an eye for an eye…only, only then the FA will do something about it…until then we will continue to be the victims, and more of our legs will be broken.

    You turn the tide, if the referees and pundits protect the aggressors…let’s be the aggressors, when a game ends in a disaster and a hospital beds are filled with seriously injured players, the FA will react to stop the violence…until then, it’s just Arsenal babies crying.
    ===

    Most people misunderstanding what physical means in football. It’s not physical in body strength and who can break the other one’s leg first. The physicality comes from the speed of the game and having to run non-stop for 10 to 14 miles a game. That’s what physical means, it’s not a physical strength as in boxing, it’s physical endurance under stress.

  200. I wouldn’t mind sacrificing someone like Mikael Silvestre for a couple of games suspension by sending him out to break Ricardo Fuller’s leg next time we meet Stoke. Then do it again to a Birmingham player, preferably their top scorer and yet again to Darren Bent to avenge Diaby. It is a man’s game isn’t it? So why not dish it out as long as anything goes, right?

  201. An idea G4E but if Song gets a yellow card for dancing with a Stoke player it would be a 10 match ban (Paul Davis) if we even just punched an opposing player never mind breaking a bone.

  202. + we would be the only team to be docked points in that situation.

  203. dupsffokcuf, it doesn’t matter what will happen in terms of punishment, the idea is if you incite and approve of hostile and brutal treatment against us, we will give you the same treatment and even worse back.

    The FA can’t do to us anything worse than what they’re doing now by allowing premier league managers and the media to incite life threatening tackles against our team and players.

  204. Funny how people think. My mate is convinced that Reyes, Eduardo, Diaby and Ramsey is all linked.

    He feels the kicking Reyes got played a part in him cutting and running.

    So they just keep repeating it.

    That’s too paranoid even for me.

    How do you get Matt Taylor, Dan Smith, Ryan Shawcross & Gary Neville on to the same conspiracy…..

    Take them to a cellar in some old manor house, and plot over absinthe and chrsytal meth!

    Oh my, oh my.

  205. “How do you get Matt Taylor, Dan Smith, Ryan Shawcross & Gary Neville on to the same conspiracy…..”

    Ole, they do not have the brain power to be part of a conspiracy, any drug enduced brainwashing would be immpossible.

  206. Ole,

    I agree with most everything you’ve said earlier today in relation to both Aaron and Shawcross. Its a balanced and reasoned perspective.

    Considering that we both have similar opinions on the Eduardo “dive” and the myriad of penalty decisions that have blatantly gone against us in the aftermath – were you as surprised as I was that we actually got one last night? Of course there’s no way of knowing, but I’m convinced that we would never have been given that decision were it not for the fact that poor Aaron was carted off in an ambulance.

  207. That and the fact there had already been a blatant penalty not given.

  208. 1 loose cannon

    Ramsey was fouled in the box and it was a clear cut penalty, it wasn’t given if it was given maybe the injury would not have happened, the Bendtner one was so blatant it was comical. Bendtner was pushed into the ground in the box in front of the ref but the fact that he already gave one he just refused to give another.

    Regarding Shawcross this is the same guy who broke Francis Jeffers ankle he also injured Adebayor last year so for the pundits to tell us its not in his nature or he did not mean it, is just pure bullshit he knew exactly what he was doing. To get Ramsey’s leg snapped like that, he must’ve kicked him so hard with a brutal force if you don’t mean to hurt someone you would not go in with such force because you would know if you miss the ball you will cause some serious damage. So I’m not buying into this “not in his nature” bullshit. Yes he did not mean to break his leg but he certainly wanted to make sure Ramsey feel how tough he is. That’s what the thugs do on the pitch they don’t generally try to break your leg but they try to bully you to the point where you do not go for 50/50 balls anymore. So intent is always there.

  209. 1 loose cannon

    This guy is certainly deranged no wonder he beat his Ex-wife senseless. this man is in favour of violence and should be removed from all forms of media. He is sick and hate anything to do with Arsenal. He is really something, a nasty piece of work.

    http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/stan-collymore/Stan-Collymore-column-Why-Arsenal-manager-Arsene-Wenger-s-reaction-to-Aaron-Ramsey-s-horror-injury-was-over-the-top-article338563.html

  210. I cannot accept any argument in defence of the kicking given. What is not being commented on (strangely) is the incredible force used. It takes great force to snap both the tibia and fibula. If he had connected with the ball it would have flown 40 metres. If he connected with the ball then the leg he would still have severely injured Ramsay. To be using that much force anywhere near another players leg is criminal, and shows no respect whatsoever for a fellow professional. These players spend their life trying to take the ball efficiently and then move it on, a 40 metre kick is only the preserve of someone that is not about to come into contact with another player.

    The comments of both Lee Dixon and Martin Keown tonight on MOTD2 were appalling in saying it was a 50/50 and “not that bad”. Can only assume they follow the party line for fear of losing their cushy pundits job.

  211. Stan Collymore is an insult to footbal. His attitude was of a ‘man’ who thought he was better than anybody else.

    Sadly that attitude has filtered down to the likes of Terry, Cole & Bellamy (to name just the 3 most odious ones).

  212. Thyis Martin Samuel article is one of the best I’ve read concerning the Ramsey incident.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1254454/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Now-Aaron-Ramsey–broken-legs-chance.html

  213. This Martin Samuel article is one of the best I’ve read concerning the Ramsey incident.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1254454/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Now-Aaron-Ramsey–broken-legs-chance.html

  214. Consols quoted words have consoled me. Thanks. Where is that from?

  215. stan collymore is a big joke.

    i was thinking no self-respecting man would dare to criticise our reaction, out of respect to aaron ramsey.

    “I have seen Arsenal many times this season and don’t believe they have all the attributes to win the league.

    But due to the inconsistency of other top teams, the Gunners could win the biggest prize of all.”

    OMFG.

  216. By the way, who here feels that Sol Campbell’s presence is soothing?

    I dont know, but just having him in the squad makes me feel secure.

  217. capello should drop terry and give sol the captaincy.

  218. Only pundit with guts to speak out, besides Patrick Barcklay and Neil Curtis is Martin Samuel

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1254454/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Now-Aaron-Ramsey–broken-legs-chance.html?ITO=1490

  219. “Ramsey is also a key part of John Toshack’s Wales team, who are in the England’s 2012 European Championship qualifying group. The first round of qualifying matches will take place in September, meaning Ramsey is already a doubt for those fixtures.”

    As was Eduardo for Croatia. Coincidence?

  220. I think that one might be Passenal.

  221. Passenal, No coincidence at all with the fact that the tackler gets a call to the National Squad 2hours after the incident.

  222. And I just hope England doesnt even qualify for the knock-out phase for the 2010 WC.

  223. You guys dont honestly beleive that do you?

  224. Zimpaul.

    I think we were all feeling sickened yesterday, you expressed it better than most.

    The quote is from ’1984′, George Orwell who understood a few things about repression and brutality and it’s effects on the human psyche.

    A new boy coming, eh. There is real joy.

  225. I think that it is likely that England will get to the semi-finals of WC2010. I would like to see a Spain-Holland final because I think that they are the best two European teams. But England are good enough to go a long way. If they are… then good luck to them.

    The press and media fascination with absolving poor Ryan Shawcross is sickening. He should be banned for as long as Aaaron is out of the game. He may not have intended to break Aaron’s leg but he had no intention of avoiding it…which in any other industry would be criminal negligence.

    Pulis is the cause of the incident and should be banned from the game for the same length of time. But he is only part of the problem…just read and listen to the English football establishment over the weekend.

    Quality is really beginning to shine through now and despite other teams efforts to cripple our players we have real depth to the squad. In fact the best Arsenal squad I have ever seen. We wikll win the EPL this year. Of that there can be no doubt.

    …..Arsenal…

  226. There is no conspirecy people. Just a well believed theory that to “get stuck into us” is the way to play us. And that is fine…..to a point. The point in this case has been well and truely crossed….again.

  227. There is clearly not a conspiracy. Events over the weekend just serve again to highlight the neanderthal attitude of the English football establishment. I suspect that the football establishments of many other countries are even worse.

  228. Has anybody here said there is a conspiracy?

    But now that you mention it, a widespread unspoken bad faith idea such as the “Arsenal don’t like it up them, rough them up” idea is tantamount to a conspiracy as it yields the same consequences.

  229. What I find interesting about the ‘it was much tougher in my day’ brigade is that they have very few examples of compaund leg breaks to relate to us. Arsenal have three such examples in recent times. It has never been legal to attempt to tackle in such a way that your whole moving body weight impacts upon an opponents tibia and fibula. It will always result in a compund fracture.

  230. “I suspect that the football establishments of many other countries are even worse.”

    Possibly, but since we are in England and the neanderthal attitude here directly affects Arsenal, that’s all we care about.

  231. goonerandy, it’s that ‘theory’ which taken to it’s logical conclusion leads to what we saw on Saturday. That would never happen to Rooney, Lampard or Gerrard, because those teams do not use the same tactics against them knowing that such an outcome would see them crucified in the media for ruining England’s chances at the world cup. But who cares about a few lightweight foreigners? They shouldn’t be here playing better football than us anyway.

  232. There is no conspiracy. Why would anyone bother to form a conspiracy when the default among the masses is to protect those who have acted wrongly? When to defend those who have suffered injury is cause for ridicule?

    We have seen how the logic-choppers who would turn the villain into the victim are applauded for their sophistication. Creeping wretches crawl from their holes to offer praise for such balanced thinking. Ostentatious displays of feigned compassion – a tasteless kind of self-congratulation – are used to bring everyone on to a level, and have the effect, whether intentional or accidental, of making justice less likely, both now and in the future.

  233. Well the neanderthal attitude in other football establishments does directly affect Arsenal, Passenal. Evidenced by the insane yappings of Michel Platini and Sepp Blatter and their cohort of bleating ‘small’ footballing nations.

  234. …and culminating in the sort of refereeing display we saw in Porto a couple weeks back.

  235. If any good comes out of this sort of incident at all it might be that Arsenal supporters actually start to support Arsenal.

  236. It must be your morning krapfen Poliziano….otherwise I worry for you if you think compassion turns villain to victim.

    Oh, did you hear John Terry cheated on his wife? A lot for you to chew on for the next 3 months.

  237. Frank,

    Did you see the comments from the Porto players before the game? They made the same kind of comments heard from the likes of Stoke, Blackburn and Bolton.

    In fact, the rotational fouling of Cesc is as bad as I’ve seen outside of Man poo…

  238. Are you sure you understood Pz’s comment, OG?

  239. I agree OG

  240. Frank,

    I did….I have a very sensitive snideness detector. He’s behaving like such a petty little man these days. It’s becoming unbearable.

  241. Why is “intent” regarded as a justification? The difference is as between murder and manslaughter. You may feel that murder is the more heinous crime. But in both cases someone dies. And in both cases someone’s else pre-meditated actions were responsible. The actions were intentional, even if the outcome was not.

  242. This was a huge come from behind win. This hurts to see ramsey go down. This is the last thing we need. A good win now we are only three points behind Chelsea.The title is within sight. You gotta love it. http://defutebol.net

  243. Another video of Saint Shawcross maiming a player during his loan spell at Royal Antwerp (Belgium).

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