RvP, Anti-Football and More

Robin van Persie is very happy indeed to have Thomas Vermaelen in the squad, praising the start the Belgian has made, his goals having significance for the team:

The first one showed he is very, very strong from corners and free-kicks and that is very important. Even if we play badly we can always score from set-pieces. I would have been proud of his second goal.

He is raised in Holland. I am not saying every Dutch player is good technically but when you are raised in Holland – especially at Ajax, Feyenoord or PSV – you are brought up getting the ball, moving it first touch, move again, pass, move. He was at Ajax since 15 so it is in his system for a long, long time.

Vermaelen has certainly been quietly going about the business of quashing critics who say he is not tall enough. At City, he was beaten in the air, not in a contest but because of poor positioning on his part, the gap between himself and Gallas far too wide, Emmanuel Adebayor punishing that error.

The goals have been a positive bonus and it would be a surprise if he were to suddenly stop scoring. He may find more attention being paid to his movements in the penalty area at future set-pieces but for now, make hay whilst the sun shines ought to be his thinking.

Wenger observed that it was his combative nature that first brought him to their attention. RvP remembers the encounter, taking it as a positive for Vermaelen’s ability to mix the physical and the aesthetic side of the game. Likewise Wenger who views the incident now as a sign of Vermaelen’s commitment whereas I’m pretty sure he was less complimentary at the time. A forerunner of anti-football perchance?

Arsene is going on about anti-football, the cynical fouls that break up play and allow you to regroup. ‘Tactical‘ was the word he used to describe this. It is a thin line that he has to tread on this subject since his own midfield is not averse to using such methods to halt the opposition in their tracks.

Where Wenger does hit the nail on the head is that referees do little or nothing about these fouls. Apparently, there have been discussions at UEFA meetings and Wenger wants to meet with the FA to find out why there is no provision for referees to act, especially with the cumulative effect.

The problem is solvable. Firstly, referees can book players for persistent foul play. Not sure if this extends to a team or is purely to the individual. However, with any foul, a referee can issue a caution depending upon the interpretation he puts upon the incident. The key issue is not that; it is whether or not the PGMO and FA has the will to deal with this.

It is not a high profile issue that will grab the media’s attention. There is no natural correlation in their minds to cheating, even if foul play is by its very definition, cheating. The subject area is simply too broad for the tabloids to be able to cope with. Diving is a much easier headline to write. It has a resonance with all levels of the professional game.

Yet persistent foul play is more prevalent, more frequent the higher up the ladder you go. Ask any professional and they are pretty much willing to do anything including selling their grandmother’s soul, to win a game such is the pressure they are under. Will the FA act? No. Why? There is no desire to improve the flow of the game, their attention diverted to FIFAs investigations into transfers that are presumed to be dubious. Also, it is only a problem for Wenger, it seems. No-one else agrees with him, publicly at least. He needs to marshall support from other coaches before he will make any headway with the powers that be.

On the subject of tabloids, and I vaguely was, 4-0 wins are apparently not enough for anyone to take Arsenal seriously. Quite rightly so; one win, a season does not make. Yet there is a real danger in their logic for dismissing any hope of a title challenge, particularly this early in the season.

According to Ian McGarry, Sun columnist, Arsenal has lost two games and that is too many to win the title. Or at least that was his opinion on yesterday’s Sunday Supplement. To be fair to McGarry, he also dismissed Liverpool by the same rationale. At least he was consistent. Where that logic fell down was that Chelsea could apparently afford to lose their upcoming matches against the top four teams, Manchester City could not be dismissed and as for United, well, let’s just say that the defeat at Turf Moor has been airbrushed out of history.

The only reason that I mention this is to explain the logic that applies to tabloid journalism and why reading it can be seriously damaging to your health, possibly a more negative impact than twenty fags a day. And McGarry is not alone in this. Martin Lipton, Daily Express football correspondent and Tiny Tot, did not dispute the reasoning. Which left you feeling quite sorry for Paul Hayward of The Observer, whose hang dog expression was largely brought about by the utter drivel his peers were spouting.

’til Tomorrow.

Posted on September 21, 2009, in Arsenal, Champions League, Football, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 219 Comments.

  1. Oooh, memememememe! I’m first!

  2. nice article

  3. I watched Sunday Supplement yesterday as well and you are quite right about Mcgarry who at one point indicated that Arsenal were not one of the top clubs and that Man City had not beaten a top team by beating Arsenal.

    He completely ignored the relative difficulty of our start to the season in comparison with the other “top” sides he was discussing.

  4. Congratulations, Yogi!

  5. Why does anyone watch that sunday bloody supplement. 4 or 5 tossers who have never kicked a ball in their lives or were probably that fat last kid to get picked chat shite for an hour. Rather listen to the in laws chat shite for an hour.

  6. Who is going to play tomorrow? Is Bendtner too senior now for the the Carling Cup? I’ve already requested that Senderos be made captain, and I’m expecting Wenger to obey. If Barazite plays, I’ll be able to go out with him in public. Looking forward to it!

  7. Great blog, as always. I was also unfortunate enough to view Mr. McGarry and co. and Paul Hayward aside (very sensible and considered for a journalist, a rare treat), thought there comments to be incredibly immature and ridiculously stupid for want of a better word.

    I think it’s good for our team though because if comments like that don’t get the fire burning in your belly, nothing much will.

    Further to that, I love the fact that for the most part, we outplayed MU at OT and were fairly unlucky to lose the game where as spu*s were outplayed by 10 man MU, but they represent a real threat where as Arsenal can’t be considered a threat at all.

    You have to laugh.

    Cheers

  8. Shocking how biased the media can be.

    Instead of questioning the 6minutes added time we have pieces in papers and on tv justifying it!!

    Everyone knows the friking rules about a ref’s discretion, but these rules are never applied unless its at OT and man utd are not winning!

  9. I never knew that you can add so many more minutes in stoppage time.. how can a game that ends 3-3 then only have 1 or 2 minutes stoppage, there was 2 extra minutes in just 4 minutes action.

    so if a game ends 3-3 then there should be at least 6 minutes stoppage@ 1 min per goal.

    motd done a very nice job of backing the decision to allow the clearly bullied officials to well…cheat isnt it.

  10. YW. It must be a blessing then, that we have the blogosphere. Imagine if we were confined to reading that hogwash everyday in the paper about Arsenal or listening to Sunday supplement.

    AT QOS, Arsenal is not seen as a “big club” by most if not all the hacks. They conveniently substitute “not English enough” with not having a hard underbelly, having too many kids, not being experienced enough, yada yada yada.

    I think Arsenal’s mistake was to dare win the EPL in the 21st Century without losing a single match. They not only created history, they did it with arrogance and panache, and this after all of them wrote us off in favour of Manure and a lottery winning Chelsea who had just been acquired by Abramovich.

    These hacks have never got over their humiliation that year. It doesn’t of course help that Wenger is French. It just pisses them off. The irony is that Wenger has now created an academy and youth structure whose nucleas and core is British. The claim that Arsenal isn’t English enough is just laughable if at all you took a nationality test among the top clubs in England.

    Sometimes I think we expect too much for the media and pundits to actually take us seriously. It doesn’t matter though, because the millions of Arsenal fans around the world take the team seriously.

    I remember a few years ago being in Cambodia and the bell boy at the hotel approached me because I was wearing my Arsenal shirt at breakfast. Neither of us could communicate well enough to understand each other, but the only language we needed was red and white. After I gave him my Arsenal shirt as a present since I could get another one more easily than he could, he took my colleagues and I to a bar in the middle of Phnom Pehn that was full of gooners. Believe me, the atmosphere was more electric than a pub down Holloway Road on a match day.

  11. Wenger has said there are six definites for tomorrow. Does anyone know who they are?

    The Baggies looked good on Saturday but I still feel our kids will have to much for them. What do you think?

  12. I find the persistent fouling absolutely infuriating. Arsenal committed 6 fouls all match. Wigan 18! And yet each team had 2 cautions against their names. I don’t understand it. Surely the ref’s look at these stats…

  13. YW the article quoting Wenger says he kept T.V’s name in his gem player review memory. Your article suggests it was for his anti-football rather than his solid displays against Henry and RvP… From what I gather your column, reading to far into the Sun and the likes can be detrimental to ones mental health..

    by the way I enjoyed your insights on Arsecast, its good to have power house Arsenal Blogger’s sharing constructive ideas..

  14. Ian McGarry and the Sun – how they deserve each other down there in the gutter and the sewer. I thought his comments were ridiculous on the Sunday Supplement. In the end I was so happy that I had recorded it and from then on just whizzed past the idiot. How does he make a living?

    It seemed to me that even Brian Woolnough was embarrassed by his obvious bias as he just seemed to ignore his comments and tried every time to move to something else.

  15. Great post again YW, keep rallying support for the team!

    Wenger is right about foul play, look at the stats on fouls made on our players. Just seems when its one of our players making a foul more attention gets drawn to it. But when its a nobody from Wigan hes allowed to foul 6 – 10 times ? That is a form of cheating and injustice. Alex Song made 2 fouls on Saturday, not dangerous, he just brought down his man in an attempt to win the ball. There was barely any contact in both yet he got a yellow. This is not the 1st instance this season.

    There were players who made 6 or more fouls, blatant fouls, more dangerous fouls, why was there no punishment?

    1 factor = Our players dont scream to the refs as often as the likes of Rooney, Drogba, Terry, Gerrard, Carragher.

    Another factor = We dont have the communication with the refs like the English BIG players have from other teams. Race seems to play a part in my view there.

    Another = We are Arsenal, we hold the ball alot, we always have more possession, and technically we naturally draw in fouls. The refs may just be used to seeing our players crippled on the floor.

    Another = When its an English player that goes down who is in the refs good books and is on talking terms with the ref.. he may be a bit biassed to his decision making. How many Englishman turn out for Arsenal.. result they dont care what damage is done to our players.

    Its what drives me crazy when i see Rooney having a laugh with the refs… then he will go flatten somebody and wink at the ref after.

    referees have become very biassed, a change is needed

  16. YW

    We will not win the league.We are one injury to TV or Gallas and we have Tweety or Swiss Phil in the side.Whats the betting Gallas gets injured a week before Chelsea and Swiss Phil is in to face the man who destroyed his career.We also lack a 20 plus league goalscorer.Man Utd and Chelsea have too much strength in depth With the lack of transfer activity in the summer i would take 4th place now

  17. Neil…. is Eduardo & Arshavin not capable of 20 goals each?

  18. fuck off neil down

  19. Neil Downer Doomer

    Get lost mate, Senderos is an International, Silvestre is very experienced, Song is also a good CB.

    We have 6 decent CB’s.. 1 being injured for 6 months. What exactly are you complaining about.. if you cant support the team.. its simple… DONT

  20. In my experience of England, hard underbellies are in short supply.

  21. Soft, protruding underbellies seem to be more in favour.

  22. Arsenal the great

    Poliziano

    Don’t get me wrong. I like Djourou and also Nordvelt but they don’t have the ‘Drogba-tackling’ abilities that we lack. Vaemaleon has that and Bartley at 18 has it. In two years time when Gallas may be gone, I can see Bartley at 20; 6.4 tall then and another ‘beast’ of a CB making a claim for the position not Djourou, Nordvelt nor Senderos.

    You’ll see perhaps Bartley playing on Tuesday since he’s a right-sided CB and both Senderos and Sylvestre are rather left-sided. Arsenal’s CB problems will be solved by the development of Bartley and Ayling (both comfortable at right and left). Don’t have any hope in Senderos, Djourou and Nordtvelt because they’re neither Adams, Bould, Keown nor TV.

    Bartley and Ayling have got the attributes in CB’s needed to be successful in the EPL. Height. Bartley at 6.3 now and still 18. Ayling 6.2 and just U18. They are ball players and tough as Bould, Keown, Adams or TV; attributes lacking in Djourou, Senderos and Nordtvelt.

  23. Arsenal the great

    If your looking at pointing to these youngsters at being great CB’s which are coming through the ranks, how can making a claim over their height make any difference to how good they may or may not get.

    You contradict yourself by then prasing TV because he aint too tall. Height has nothing to do with it, as TV has demonstrated.

  24. Referees like to keep the number of bookings for each side about even regardless of the number and severity of the fouls because they see this as ‘fair’. The same also applies to penalties and red cards. How many times have you seen a player sent off to ‘even the score’ or a blatant penalty turned down when a team has already had one penalty?

    On Sunday Supplement they said that Aresenal would struggle because it was hard to see where the goals would come from – which was odd considering we were the top scorers in the league at the time (I think Manure and Chel$ski may have just pipped us now but they have played a game more).

  25. Poliziano

    I blame the media for the lack of mental toughness amongst some of our supporters. How any of them can come on a blogg and slate our own players who have a good chance of winning something this year is beyond me.

    The attacking play we have demonstrated already without some key players has been remarkable. We have been the better team in probably all our games, we have played United, Everton, Celtic all away and gave a very good account of ourselves but not always getting the points we deserved.

    I think we have scored 25 goals already.. its amazing

  26. Marwel

    We still top the ‘goals scored’ with even a game in hand

  27. I first became frustrated by the ‘tactical fouling’ technique in the Carling Cup Final against Chelsea. All the while Chelsea were either on level terms or behind, the game flowed smoothly. Immediately they took the lead, they started the ankle taps, subtle trips etc. and effectively killed the game. It was so clearly orchestrated, as they took it in turns, even including great players like Shevchenko, and that way no one individual player looked bad enough to get a yellow card. It was frustration with that, I believe, that caused Kolo to lash out at Obe Mikel and kick off the ruck at the end of the game.

  28. I couldn’t agree more with Duke.

    Sunday supplement is the biggest load of shite on Sky – without question.

    How on earth some of the guys that go on there make a living from writing about football is frightening – what they know about the game you could write on the back of a stamp.

  29. ChrisGoona

    Silvestre is Shit.Ferguson would have sold him if he was still good.Why did Wenger loan out Swiss Phil for a season if he rated him?.And why is Silvestre on the bench every game and Swiss Phil not?

  30. rev

    Yes Eduardo is capable of 20 league goals if played as a main striker not on the wing.Eddy is the best finisher at the club by far

  31. Arsenal the great was just listing Bartleys height as one quality attribute i think. He is looking good. He will be a champion of the reserves. Would love to see him in the CC team, It would be a shame from a youth point of view to have silvestre and Senderos, I would love bartley and sendo, having a good run together. I really want big Phil to have another chance as if we could keep him content with a squad role he would be fantastic, it’s when you have to rely on him week in week out it becomes a problem.

  32. A point of etiquette, els: the phrase “week in week out” is forbidden on this site.

  33. Neil Down

    Rather focusing on the lesser players of the squad, why dont you take a more general view to the Arsenal team and you will see how much quality we possess. If you cannot understand how a squad is assembled, then you will always have a very negative view on certain players.

    Not everyone can be superstars in the squad. Sort your support out please

  34. Poliziano oh sorry why not??? Or should I just drop it.

  35. Faceman
    He named 7 today for the CC:
    W Szesny (sp?)
    Gibbs
    Silvestre
    Senderos
    Wilshere
    Ramsey
    S Watt

  36. els

    The confidence battering Senderos took could happen to any young CB. It is a very tough position to play, its why Wenger has always been cautious in just chucking a young CB in the deep end ( eg Djourou) .

    I think Wenger really rates Senderos to have put his faith in him at the time. Every Cb makes errors, its how they respond to them is what proves their worth. I have no doubt in the qualities of Senderos, but as much as i want to see him in the 1st team, theres an nervousness which will naturally come to me when i see him play.

    I hope he does well, he has the quality to do so,… lets see if mentally he has become stronger before making a proper judgement.

  37. Neil,

    We are not playing with wingers – we are playing 4-3-3 with 3 forwards.

    Eduardo is more than capable of scoring goals from that position.

    Would you say Henry was a winger?

    He played on the left of a 4-3-3 last season and scored more than 20 goals.

  38. Yogi – you have correctly exposed the real cheating of football fans by the serial rotational floating that cheats the public of real free-flowing football, the beautiful game. Added to that is the biased myopic media hacks who resort to sensationalism rather than educating the public.

    However, you stopped short of exposing the many so-called Arsenal bloggers who persist with making cheap shots at their own players. You can’t, I know, but I will. One such is the Goodplaya blog who spent half of his his last blog slating Eboue. (I will repeat an earlier post). I suppose it is part-envy and part-guilt as he spent most of the past two years criticizing Eboue without finding anything positive about his game. All Eboue has done since then is stuff this mindless chatter right down their throats and made himself one of the most versatile footballers on our squad. In my estimation, next to Vermalean, he was our man-of-the-match last Saturday.

  39. You forgot our favourite friends Shotta…..

  40. Chris goona – yes very true, Senderos does always look like a few steps away from a clanger, but it’s not as if he has been out of football since his being dropped. Don’t forget he did have a good few games at Milan, with a very capable defence around him. That’s the kind of thing that could help a players confidence, I think a bit of arrogance is needed in there job. Hopefully he will come back into the squad thinking that if he can play in Milan’s line up then he can play in ours.

    If he shows some eboue resilience and sets out to prove himself the cc would be the perfect platform to win us around and make a claim for some first team action. But oh many i do have some 5pence – 10pence action when he takes to the field.

  41. I sat watching sunday suppliment with my new grand-daughter. We both had to laugh at two particular guests, problem was we couldnt stop laughing that we both got wind and had to pat each other on the back. Ive taped it and intend to send it back to sunday suppliment at the end of the season. One of their comments of the week “I dont know where goals are going to come from” Everywhere Mr Mcgarry, evrywhere

  42. YW

    I have to agree with shotta-gunna

    I also would like you to take a more firm stance on these types of bloggers. They seem to think they can come to an Arsenal blogg and slate their own team trying to spread a negative perspective to others. I know we must respect everyones opinions, but to be honest we have it up to our ears listening to the crap from the pundits and media never mind in the comfort of your excellent blogg.

    Come down hard on them! Teach them how to support.. your articles are the perfect example, i feel you should put some shame on them to make them reconsider how they spread their opinion and maybe they will realise their behaviour is wrong.

  43. WBA have had a good start to their season havnt they so tomorrows game might well be a test. I dont know who is in the sqad, and im wondering how many 1st teamers he will will have. I wouldnt risk bringing recently injured players back against a championship team as , (with no disrespect to WBA) the timings of championship tackles is not at the highest level. Any news on team selecton ?

  44. els

    With Eboue he can afford to lose the ball in midfield a few times, and he can impress in other areas.. like his dribbling, running at defenders.. closing down etc..

    In Senderos’s instance… the life of a CB is very much more down to composure and concentration of the performance. You can see the very best CB’s in the world getting caught out, but they will recover for the next game. In a young CB’s case they don’t have the reputation behind them to fall back on when making mistakes.

    Vermaelen is a very cool customer who looks very composed and goes out focussed to do his job to his best abilities. Thats what you need in a CB – Gallas has it, Toure had it.. so did Campbell untill his breakdown. Can Senderos blank out all them bad memories and get on with performing to the best of his abilities.

    Thats what many Arsenal fans are waiting to see… i really cant wait to see him action, i just hope we see a player who is composed and looks like hes moved on. Like Eboue has.

  45. Neil Down the doomer.

    What would you rather have? Two regulation strikers each scoring 20 goals a season, or Arshavin, Vela, Eduardo, RVP, Bendtner, Walcott, Rosicky and Nasri each scoring 10 to 12 goals in a season.

    Go figure.

  46. Chrisgooner. I totaly understand your view but its a dangerouse road to go down imo. Your point is teach them how to support, i believe the only way to do that is to stick to a principle of free speach, even if we disagree. Otherwise we end up like some other blogs who ban people from their sites because of fear. I am not suggesting for one minute that you fear what has become known as doomers on the blog, far from it. For me, people who have little education need to be educated, fear and aggresion stops that particular process imo. But i would certainly support an action that challenged negativity for the sake of it

  47. boomer

    my guesses are we will see:

    Bendtner: only got off the bench against Wigan
    Rosicky: only got off the bench against Wigan and needs minutes and match practice – likely sub
    Ramsey
    Senderos!
    Silvestre
    Gibbs
    Wilshire .. Will he start i wonder
    RB – Eboue played 90mins.. maybe he will be rested.. so who plays (Sagna or possibly a youth player?)
    Polish I dont know how to spell his name GK.. too early? .. Mannone may get another outing
    Merida certainly a likely starter

    The number of 1st teamers likely to be involved depends on the amount of experience wenger thinks the team will require to win. He takes this tournament very seriously, and it is important for our younsters development.

    Is the game Live on anything else apart from ATVO ????

  48. Bragging Rights Ltd

    After that initial seven named by Wenger, the rest of the CC squad is going to be a bit harder to call. For one – isn’t there some kind of u20 tournament going on at the moment? I’m quite sure Hoyte is away for that, and I don’t know about Sunu, Coquelin and Merida either.

    Maybe someone can set me straight.

  49. Chris yup, as the last line in defence you have a lot of responsibility, to an extent even a keeper can blame whats in front of him, but the book can usually be thrown at a defender.

    I really do hope he has a come back because potentially he is great, there is just always a silly decision. At 24 he is probably leaving that young defender category, historically there was a school of thought that a defender didn’t peak until 30ish, but with the speed of the game I think that this has been lowered, making it a more difficult job to iron out faults in your game at a younger age. He has more experience, I just hope his head is right, why the lack of even bench appearances?? Did an everton move fall through for him and is he unsettled who knows but I seriously hope not.

  50. boomer

    Some bloggs like you mentioned create a siege mentality (dictatorship) where they clearly portray what elements they personally agree and disagree with regarding our club. LeGrove the perfect shite example. They persuade their readers to hate players like Eboue, Ade, Bendtner.. etc.. and many others im sure they will discriminate

    I dont suggest for one second for ACLF to be anything like that – its the most enjoyable blogg i read and its very unique – YW is class! I just wish an opinion on this mentality will be discussed further and for it to be made clear that it is unacceptable. It is quite the opposite to creating a mentality like theirs. Its not an opinion, its the way bloggers and bloggs operate which we should refer to as a cause for bad publicity on our club and team. I find some comments very wrong on here like any blogg… and many of us have got use to them. Just how many of the Arsenal fans are use to slating their own team freely.

    It is the root for bad press being published regarding our club, regarding our players, and regarding our team.

  51. Jerome at work, Gadget at home

    ChrisGoona @ 12.33,

    that’s an excellent enquiry you make. Perhaps this phenomenom is nothing more than vindication of several psychological experiments conducted through the years, namely those showing people defering to those who they believe know better.

    Is this not the power the media has, the power to derail sane and considered opinion with foolishness?

    There is only one who knows what’s best for the Arsenal, and his name is Wenger. The sooner some “fans/supporters” realise that, the better.

  52. To be honest i love the Sunday Supplement but only if it has quality journos like Patrick Collins,Patrick Barclay,Paul Hayward etc.The guy from The Sun is a joke. We cannot win the title because we have lost two games(how many did Man utd lose last season?) and we dont score enough goals,that will be 19 in 5 games so far this season,with 13 differant scorers in all competitions! Jaw droppingingly poor standards at The Sun it seems!

  53. Where does Witcher get this nonsense notion from that if Arsenal spent money we didn’t have, we’ll make the money back.

    Man United won 2 trophies in 08, 3 in 09 and have made record losses.

    Just where is the extra money would come from and what would make ‘speculative’ spending guarantee it has not been shown by anybody in football.

    It’s the classic bubble. Everyone thinks there’s a pot of gold at the bottom of the rainbow. Everyone is expending gold in hand to get to the pots of gold, and it’s making very little sense.

    In the season where Man United won their league and European Cup double they only earned £30M more than Arsenal.

    If Arsenal had spent £60M that season, and had won the league and cup double, instead on Man United, the gold expended would not have been justified by the financial prize.

    It’s sad, but it’s true.

    Kevin Witcher speaks like a fan when he doesn’t accept this-understandably too, but where he’s acting the fool is where he tries to couch this in financial talk as if he was saying anything that fundamentally makes sense.

  54. Whoever said, ‘Silvestre – he’s shit’ – I feel you do the big carp a disservice.

    Probably not the most popular sentiment but he was recovering from injury when he was used last season and if you saw him in preseason you’d have seen a very decent player. He is strong and physical, highly experienced, no slouch and puts a shift in esp. at leftback.

    I’m not his biggest fan at CB but he can do a job for us there in the diddly cup.

    Arsenal the Great. Good lineup. I think you overstate the left/right sided CB thing though. I’ve seen Big Phil play both left and right sides of the CB pairing. Yeah CBs have their preferences, and once they’ve established a partnership they’re going to have their own sides (like a marital bed), but when it comes down to it CBs play in the centre, the job is the same regardless of which side of an imaginary line down the middle of the pitch they stand.

    - – - – - – - – -Wowcheque – - – - – - – - – -
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    Hoyte – - Senderos – - Silvestre – - Gibbs-
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    - – - – - – - – - -Coquelin – - – - – - – - – - -
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    - – - – - – -Ramsey – - Merida – - – - – - – -
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    Barazite- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Wilshere
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    - – - – - – – -Sanchez Watt?- – - – - – - – - -

    I think we’ll have Nikclass up top at the expense of Nacer.

    I’d like to see Traore, Bartley and Luke Ayling get some time. And Rosicky and Eddy on the bench to save the day if need be.

  55. Jerome at work, Gadget at home

    My biggest issue is with those who choose to go down the route of undermining their manager and players while we have to deal with a whole load of other idiots.

    Being an Arsenal fan you should try do anything you can to support your team positively.. ive never heard of negative support. Yet many bloggs and commentators post negative opinions on their team then try justify it as support? It just spreads negative opinion and creates unrest, so why do it? We can talk about issues within the team, tactics, players.. but many think they can say what they want and have the right to insult.

    It is very strange and i just cannot understand this mentality of our fans. Maybe some people are just born naive and believe what they see on the telly all the time, i prefer to believe what i see on the pitch. What we are seeing now is a very good team which has been assembled, with great attacking instincts, they can score alot of goals and play brilliant football. If they win a trophy of 2 we will be remembered for years to come.

    There will be nothing more remarkable and glorious than that. With that in mind as a supporter it keeps me going but even if in 10 years we arent challenging i will maintain my support. We are fortunate to be supporting a club like ours which is up there. Why dont more supporters show it instead of attracting bad press on oursleves. We have allowed everyone to undermine us by undermining ourselves. Now we must show the opposite and stand up and be counted.

    Check out the image of Wenger at Old Trafford.. that is all the inspiration we need as supporters to back this team.

  56. A number of teams seem to be getting away with cynical fouls by fouling as a team. Maybe refs should get around this problem by keeping a tally of fouls as a team, not just the number of fouls by an individual. Against Wigan at the weekend we were awarded a number of free kicks in their half, but the ref didn’t brandish the card because the fouls were commited by different players. After the fourth or fifth cynical foul maybe the ref should get the card out no matter who actually commited the foul. Not a brilliant solution, but maybe it will make those teams who foul in numbers hesitate.

    Walcott cannot be that far off match fitness now, after all AW suggested that he would be available after the recent international fixtures. A run-out against WBA in the Carling Cup might be good for him, even if its just half an hour at the end. A lively Theo running at a tiring WBA defence in the last 20 minutes might be just what the doctor ordered.

  57. Bragging Rights Ltd

    Kevin Witcher has been on the “Ignore” list for a while. He’s just as bad as Myles Palmer.

    The Gooner is obsolete in the blog era anyway.

  58. “The Society of The Spectacle”

    - Guy Debord.
    Interesting if slightly extreme readings on the role and power of the media.

    I just like the term:
    ‘Mass media and commodity fetishism.’

    For these ‘hacks’ football has never been a sport, just a commodity.

    Spectacles don’t have to be financially solvent, and what is more spectacular then watching two grown men get paid fortunes to kick lumps out of each other?

  59. Regarding the censorship I am against it, but wish there was a way to teach the fools who question wenger. It would be boring if we did all have the same oppinion, it’s good to try to educate the nay sayers. Thing is there are not that many intelligent enough to form a good argument.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if they are wrong wrong wrong. If you stop them where do you draw the line? I would imagine YW has a tough enough job policing abuse.

    It would be good if people got a little perspective and tried to be positive rather than get into a total funk, and enjoy slagging the team. If our supporters get to the stage where we are attacking the prof in conferences and calling for his head at matches I will shit. It’s rediculous and comments from a blog alone can esculate and form opinions in sheeps minds. Whats more why fucking bother to slag a team you SUPPORT, theres a clue in our title as to how we should behave.

    All people have down days and you may have a slight grievance with a player or a tactic but you must keep it in context. Imagine if you did this and then couldn’t post. It would be a shame and also very difficult for YW to patrol.

    Lets just make sure we out voice the negatives.

    Up the Arse!

  60. BRL,

    For such a die-hard gooner he’s such a miserable sod. Never met him though, but the guy sounds like he cries blood while having sex.

  61. Although in fairness, Ch*vski seem to be playing better football this season then under Hiddink. Be intersting how they play against the Barca’s and Arsenal’s of this world later on.
    Even a huge club like Inter lined up to block & foul Barca, hardly surprising under the management of ‘The Special One’.

    Ch*vski’s players are a year older, and ours a year stronger…can’t wait.

  62. Walcott back!!??? where did you read that

  63. For tomorrow I’d go for:

    Vela Bendtner Wilshere

    Merida Randall Ramsey

    Traore Silvestre Senderos Hoyte

    CzechCheckKnee

    Wenger’d probably go for

    Traore Watt Wilshere

    Merida Randall Ramsey

    Gibbs Silvestre Senderos Hoyte

    CzechCheckKnee

  64. Matt – Who needs the hacks and tabloids when you have Arsenal bloggers like Le Whore and Goodplaya? Slating ur own players without emphasizing the progress they have have made thus saving the club millions of dollars in transfer fees and wages for expensive signings is just as bad, if not worse, because this negativity spreads into the fan base and into the stadium.

    In fact there are many more serious issues that they fail to campaign on behalf of the club such as the serial and rotational fouling of our skilled players, especially Cesc. Instead they complain that he is not happy and speculate that his mind can be elsewhere. Yet Cesc suffered at least three serious knocks on Saturday and not one of the culprits were carded by the spineless referee. This included the knee to the back of his head by Diame which almost knocked him cold. Later he was hacked in the ankle or lower calf and could barely amble round the field. No wonder Cesc’s mind could have been in Barca.
    Where is the outrage? With supporters like this, who needs enemies in the press?

  65. ChrisGoona, not actually what I said I’m afraid. I said that AW had stated that he had expected Walcott to be available after the international break. He has subsequently said that Walcott was over his back problem, but would need some time to get match fitness back.
    I hypothesised that if Walcott were needing to get some running into his legs maybe the last half an hour against WBA would provide the perfect opportunity.

  66. els

    Agree… “out voicing” them is the solution for now. My bet is once we can all stand together as supporters and all believe in our team, like with the invincibles.. we will move forward.

    The team has gone through its transition, we have passed the stage and adaptation from moving stadiums, our young promising players have grown up.. now they are already winning these fans back over as much as they dont like it.

    Just annoying for now how we have to deal with fans who discredit the team even when winning 6-1 or 4-0. Win is a win, we have lost 2, but all our performances have been great. The boys have shown real steel so far, we have shown we are a threat from set pieces, we have shown we can score and defend. Most importantly they have shown the desire and confidence, somthing which was lacked last season at times.

    Theres no doubt in my mind a free scoring and winning arsenal team will get all the fans on track.. problem still lies when we go through a bad patch.

  67. Gavin Hoyte with Eng, and Merida with Spain are both playing at the FIFA U20 tournament in Egypt (along with a few of the giants of the game including Tahiti and Uzbekistan). So won’t be available Tues night.

  68. Wavey – sorry mate, was getting excited then!

  69. This was a good win for the Gunners. I still think this season in the EPL will be wild and crazy. City is for real. Two loses not so fast . There is lots of season left. Anything can happen. http://bobbygee.wordpress.com/

  70. shotta-gunna

    That is my point, our fans are basically in self-destruct mode and we attract the bad press even when times are good!

    Your point on Cesc hobbling around after taking a beating is the perfect example. How they can only mention he didnt celebrate becuase he was thinking elsewhere when really he was pretty annoyed by the treatment of the ref and the fouling. My money is on Cesc’s influence to Wengers comments regarding the fouling, and also our injury room!

    Ive also read 100s of times many bloggs where they write “Cesc will be influencial in our success this season but maybe he may leave next summer”.. why write that? do they know for sure what hes thinking, and what his plans are?

    Its just remarkably negative and stupid to write stuff like that.

  71. LimparAssist,
    I agree that having left and right sided centre backs is like having a particular side of the marital bed. What is the difference? Are the opposition more likely to come at them from one side than the other?

    Sorry, guv, I couldn’t tackle him because he came at me from the wrong side. I can only tackle with me right peg, you see, but my left peg was nearer. Nothing I could do about it, guv.

  72. So it is jbh, so it is.

    In which case I’d probably go with;

    Vela Bendtner Wilshere

    Randall Coquelin Ramsey

    Traore Silvestre Senderos Eastmond

    CzechCheckKnee

    Wenger’d probably go for

    Traore Watt Wilshere

    Randall Coquelin Ramsey

    Gibbs Silvestre Senderos Eastmond

    CzechCheckKnee

  73. hopefully the team for W.B.A is more like

    czezny
    gilbert senderos sylvetre gibbs
    denilson(or coquelin)
    ramsey rosicky (captain)
    wilshere bendy watts

    i really dont like g Hoyte (worst version of justin with more pace), randall is too average and will sold very soon ( we ve try allready this summer)

  74. lordgunner,

    I dont see Randall not getting a run. He has to be given one more chance.

    It’s not like he’s a bad player. He’s just not exceptional.

    Some think Denilson killed his chances. Some would swear-especially Howard and a couple of nuts who post here, that he’d be an Arsenal regular now otherwise. They also tend to think he’s no worse than Denilson.

    The truth is in the middle. He doesn’t have the engine, and while he’s willing to get stuck in, he’s not a good tackler. And he only has normal pace.

    But Randall will have a career in football as a pro.

  75. Denilson’s in a completely different league to Randall… a class above.

  76. chrisgooner 1.45
    I go along with that. Its people with an aganda not opinion that will never change their mind, a bit like some of sunday suppliment guests. Do to them what I do, laugh and say yea.
    Good team out tomorrow, player ive missed watching is Vela, i was begining to be worried by the lack of action from him but this is a good place to start. Its not on tv, the medium that is not the player, and i c ant find highlights anywhere so appreciate the nod if anyone knows different

  77. Bragging Rights Ltd

    No lack of pace in the squad for tomorrow night!

    And with Watt, Wilshere, Gibbs, Traore and Silvestre we have 5 lefties likely to start. Is that unusual?

  78. ole gunner, i like your team and agree that watt might get the place instead of brentner. I like that as well, love to see the future playing, realy miss highlights on telly. I havnt seen much of eastman but the rest will give any team even prem a problem

  79. Bragging Rights Ltd

    6! Vela as well.

  80. I quite like Randall actually, i’ve said it before but there is a touch of the Stevie Williams about him and thats a good thing.

  81. @Ole Gunner 2:08 pm

    The idea that money is a solution to the barren seasons that Arsenal have had is just laughable to its core. Money can and does help, but stupidity with the money is certainly no answer.

    Real Madrid are already £290 million in debt (their accounts were released this week) because of buying 4 players – Ronaldo, Benzima, Kaka and Alonso. This is practically the same level of debt that Arsenal has because of building a stadium.

    The reason Real Madrid give is that they had to make an exceptional case to buy players to compete in a year that the Champions league final is at their home (and I’m sure it also has something to do with being humiliated by Barca).

    The thought of accumilating £300 million in debt just for players is ludicrous beyond beleif. It’s this sort of mentality that gets commentators waxing lyrical about the virtues of irresponsible spending because it looks glamourous.

    The chickens are already roosting at Man Utd and Liverpool, and its so sad that spending mega bucks to buy success is actually seen as a viable solution and trumpeted by commentators and pundits who have no clear understanding of the economics of sport. The doping sugar daddies like Abramovich and the Abu Dhabi Investment Corporation have brought into the game of football has convinced the gullible that there’s a stream of rich bastards waiting in the wings to “rescue” clubs and spend spend spend.

    Mike Ashley is a wonderful case study on the folly of buying fashion accessories just to look pretty. Arsenal, despite the short comings of the board (and I can write a post on this issue alone) have a lot to thank Wenger, and now Gazidis for, as they have two visionaries who have the cojones to see through a revolution that will stand the club in good stead for decades to come – especially when its inevitable that clubs will go to the wall because bubbles are about to burst.

  82. Great news about Vela. Maybe something like…

    - – - – - – - CzechyerKnees- – - – - – - – -
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -
    Eboue – - Senderos – - Silvestre – - Gibbs
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -
    - – - – - -Ramsey- – - -Coquelin – - – - – -
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -
    -Vela – - – - – -Wilshere – - – - – - Traore -
    - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -
    - – - – - – - -Sanchez Watt – - – - – - – - -

    With Eusain Hoyte in Egypt as jbh helpfully points out, is it Eastmond or Gilbert for Right Back? I can’t decide so I’ve dropped in Eboue to steady the ship (never thought I’d say that).

    Ole, I like Randall but he’s had plenty of chances and never seemed to grow out of a tendency toward the rash. Too many classy decision makers ahead of him for him to last at the Arse I’m afraid. Perhaps you’re right though, one last chance.

  83. Ah yes PZ I remember now! Thanks.

  84. Great Post Darius.

  85. We know that AW is a visionary, we hope that Ivan Gazidis is a visionary and we hope that the current board set up provides enough stability for AW’s vision to be realised.

  86. Didnt Craig Eastmond go to Spurs in the summer?

  87. Matt,

    I saw Eastmond score a goal the other week. It was Anton Blackwood who went to the tinies.

  88. Darius. Of course there are differing ways in which an objective can be attained. R/M have obviously come to a conclusion that with this investment they will win pretty much everything. How much of their investment can they hope to reclaim is the question thay must surely have asked. They are working on an assumption and i would guess that they believe by winning evrything (in their opinion) the advertising alone will help repay the investment. At Arsenal we have invested in a new stadium and youth. Which one survives is the question, I certainly wouldnt know. I do believe with all sincerety that our way was our only option and in the current state of financial affairs it would seem the correct way forward. Both ways can work. I can see a day when as a club , Arsenal wont need to lay out huge amounts on players as we will(as the pot heads say) grow our own. We see it happening, some of our fans are worried and think that players will leave the club , therefor always playing catchup. I see no evidence of this. I say it every year but i have never had so much hope of winning trophies as i do this year. Anxiety and fear lead some to think that our apples will be pinched/lured, call it what you will, from the tree, not this year they wont. Maybe R/M will get it right but it is better, in my opinion to have supplies stored away than to wait until the cupboard runs dry

  89. AW holds a lot of power, his approach to management allows Arsenal to operate efficiently. He has built a squad which is ready to really challenge for years to come, on a fraction of the budget of other clubs. His position is secure for the moment because the board are a deeply conservative bunch when it comes to risking their own money, perhaps sensibly, perhaps not. But IG is an employee, hopefully his strength is in supporting AWs vision and in keeping some very tricky board members happy. I would also like to think that he sees the value in helping supporters to support. But there is no evidence of the latter so far, bar a few promises to RedAction.

  90. boomer,

    Let’s face it, borrowing yourself to the hilt, to win trophies is cheating.

    That’s what it is.

    If that had a place in sport, then the most credit-worthy team will win all trophies.

    We’d all just borrow to the hilt, and the one most in-bed with the bankers wins.

  91. Frank.

    I beg to differ on the impact that Gazidis has had in the 9 months he has been at the club. The job of CEO is a strange one in that it’s hard to pin point quick wins from someone who plucks low fruit to appease and score points with the stakeholders in the short term. In fact, good CEO’s work well to cement their impact in the medium to long term. However, there are signs that you can see in the direction Arsenal is going. The ones that come to mind that are directly attributable to Gazidis include:

    1. Relieving Wenger off a lot of bureaucracy and wheeler dealing behind the scenes, something Wenger has had to deal with since the departures of Dein and Eddelman.

    2. Taking control of the corporate side of business and starting to stream line it. Simple things like improving efficiency for members (how many noticed how fast their membership packs dropped in the mail this year), the Arsenalization, better engagement with supporter groups, etc. Clearly, there’s loads of room for improvement, but the signs are there.

    3. Bringing in a first class corporate management team to focus on maximizing the value of Arsenal as a brand, commercially and in the media.

    4. Playing referee to the different factions of the board (and this is perhaps the worst part of any CEO’s job as it’s politically loaded), but Gazidis has shown he is already an astute customer e.g. by keeping an open conversation with Lady Nina despite the acrimony of her board exit and her supposed protestations about Gazidis own hiring.

    5. Being a soundign board and someone not afraid to challenge Wenger out of complaicency. This is something he has diplomatically hinted in various interviews.

    6. Gazidis has also shown his pedigree in pulling through difficult transfers (Arshavin). In his 14 years or so as deputy Commissioner at the MLS, every single transfer passed through his desk, and it’s probably safe to suggest that he is possibly the most experienced hustler in the transfer market you would ever come across.

    Two things stand out for me, the collective and coherent head of steam that Gazidis has built in 9 months is an indicator of a CEO who is a class act. Secondly, he is showing that he is the right sort of person to act as a tag team with Wenger, giving Wenger enough breathing space to focus on the team and the football without worrying about the rough and tumble off the pitch and the politics that come with it.

    Perhaps one of Arsenal’s biggest challenges is exorcising the demons of complaicency that lurk around the corridors of Highbury house because the people involved have been comfortable in their positions for decades and decades and they probably don’t know what it feels like to move into the 21st century.

    Granted, Gazidis still has his work cut out, but in my view, what he’s done in 9 months is not to be scoffed at.

  92. btw Frank, I agree with your sentiments geneerally but thought I’d make a case for IG.

  93. I don’t disagree with you, Darius. I just don’t think he is a visionary. We only need one visionary. I hope he can convert much of AWs vision into reality. I remain disappointed by the stadium.

  94. we have borrowed to the hilt to help us win trophies by building the stadium. We have to have patients is my point, in the young players. So that even though we may not have won anything in the last three seasons, by nurturing youth and having a vision we will never have to compete with the likes of chelsea, real madrid or man city simply because we are self sufficient. we knew there would be some lean times but belief in what wenger is trying to achieve as you do will make us the most envied team in world, yes world football

  95. We have enough patients among the older players.

  96. Arsene wenger – the complacent visionary!

  97. At first sight the stadium is a marvel a fantastic structure, but that impression is superficial. When you have been there a while and you scratch the surface you realise that it is an abomination.

  98. I should correct that and write that it is an abomination to many of the supporters. The overall design is nigh on perfect and I understand that AW insisted that it was built from the centre spot out. This means that the grass and growing surface was one of the key considerations. Anyone who has seen the Wembley ‘turf’ will relaise how important that is.

    The seating is spacious….too far back but we know that is because the local authority limited the height. Presumably so as not obscure the view from the trains…..and then it starts to fall apart.

  99. Boomer.

    There’s a difference between hilting yourself to build a stadium, and using the equally obscene amount of money to buy what is essentially a perishable. There’s no justification in accumulating that amount of debt particularly for only 4 or 5 players.

    Frank, I catch your drift.

    Question. What would you change about the stadium (if it’s physically possible to have it changed)?

    One thing that comes to mind is the size of the bars. They can extend them and have more people serving.

  100. I think one thing that would be innovative would be to have a cheaper seating zone. In most countries where there is a large gap between rich and poor that seems to be the case, and stadiums have a good atmosphere.

    How are young people or teenagers meant to be able to afford to attend the new stadium? There were some gaps in the home support against Wigan, it seems likely that this will only increase over the next 12 to 36 months in such games, so pricing of tickets will be an issue. Last season when prices were dropped for the early CC games the atmosphere was much better & louder then the average league game, that was my experience.
    When I saw one of the Brazil games at Ashburton Grove, the crowd were amazing. But then maybe that’s what I felt because I used to live with a Rhumba drummer, and football and rhumba do seem to go well together.

  101. Football should take a leaf out of rugby`s book when it comes to persistent fouling – once the team reach a `limit` the next offender gets a yellow card. This would stop teams spreading fouls around.

  102. Oh: not that I approve of say seating arrangements in an Indian cricket stadiums, but at least everyone gets a chance to go to the stadium, which perversely seems more democratic.

  103. Well for a start the bar and food franchise is a disaster. The outlets all have been let out individually so that we had ‘pubs’ on the lower and upper concourses, preferably with Arsenal realted names. We should have marleyt stalls on the outer concourse.

    Club Level should not be there….in the arena the club level is like a noose around the stadium. They don’t turn up at the beginning, they disappear well before half time and they don’t come back after half time. So we always have a huge band of empty seats around the arena.

    Club level restaurants are an insult. Enormous picture windows looking out onto the arriving throng so that all the plebs can see are people in Arsenal shirts and chinos eating from a carvery. What a stupid initiative…an absolute turn off. Absurd and monstrous. A shocking error of judgement.

    Inside the stadium…no clock and all that that implies.

    Gunnersaurus….shoot the fucking fucker.

    The DJ…shoot the fucker.

    Police blocking all the roads outside the stadium….shoot the fuckers.

  104. sorry …all ‘should’ have been let out individually…instead of to one company.

  105. My post above might be flawed.

    You could say that the corporate seating is for the well-off, and the rest of the stadium is for the rest.

    However, the atmosphere at last seasons early CC games was some of the best I’ve experienced, along with the ‘big’ games at the new stadium.

  106. Well for a start the bar and food franchise is a disaster. The outlets should all have been let out individually so that we had ‘pubs’ on the lower and upper concourses, preferably with Arsenal related names. We should have market stalls on the outer concourse.

  107. Well for a start the bar and food setup is a disaster. The outlets should all have been let out individually so that we had ‘pubs’ on the lower and upper concourses, preferably with Arsenal related names. We should have market stalls on the outer concourse.

  108. Club Level should not be there….in the arena the club level is like a noose around the stadium. They don’t turn up at the beginning, they disappear well before half time and they don’t come back after half time. So we always have a huge band of empty seats around the arena.

    Club level restaurants are an insult. Enormous picture windows looking out onto the arriving throng so that all the plebs can see are people in Arsenal shirts and chinos eating from a carvery. What a stupid initiative…an absolute turn off. Absurd and monstrous. A shocking error of judgement.

  109. I think Frank wants his own stall inside the stadium?

  110. “One thing that comes to mind is the size of the bars. They can extend them and have more people serving.”

    That’s a good point. Most of the supporters seem to prefer the bars to watching the match, so I suggest the number of seats for spectators be reduced to, say, 5,000, and the rest of the stadium be converted to a giant bar.

  111. We want the clock back insde the stadium now. If it can’t be put up until next year becuase it needs scaffolding, then paint a temporary one on for now. For fucks sake when we built the North Bank at Highbury we painted supporters on a wall. It is not fucking rocket science.

  112. What’s so bad about chinos? Are they better or worse than cor blimey trousers?

  113. No I want my stall on the outside concourse, G4E.

  114. They are worse than corblimey trousers. You can see when people have had a piss in chinos. Cor blimey trousers you could shit in and no one would notice, they won’t come near you anyway if you wear corblimey trousers.

  115. Frank, this sounds beautiful. We need to get you on the board my friend.

  116. If it was up to me, I would let you pick your spot Frank…even if it was the Centre of the field :)

  117. Can people really not last a couple of hours without going to a bar? FFS. It’s no wonder underbellies are getting softer by the day.

  118. LOL PZ. Away with the seats, bring in the giant bar.

    Just curious though, how much consultation with supporter groups took place during the planning stage of the stadium. Did supporters have a say about layout, facilities, etc? And if so, was this enough or was it seen as a case of too many chiefs and not enough Indians if too many supporters had a view? If there was not enough consultation, did supporter groups do enough to get involved – I guess you could also ask if the club did enough to involve supporter groups.

    As for the catering, I do know that Gazidis is already getting representation about the quality (or lack of it) of catering from one of the supporter groups – I think it may be AISA (any members here), but I stand corrected if its not AISA.

  119. The point is you stay in the ‘pub’ after the game, PZ. The ‘pub’ closes during the game and reopens after full time. ‘Meet you in the Charlie George after the game’….’oh I though we were doing DB10 tonight? Tell you what lets do an invincibles pub crawl after the game’…That sort of thing.

  120. Native Amerians, Darius, too many chiefs and not enough native Americans.

  121. Oh fuck no, not AISA. They may well be responsible for the current club level arrangements. They are the fuckers who went for AW at the shareholders meeting.

  122. Sorry, Frank, I was referring to the problem of people missing chunks of the match because they are waiting to be served in the bars.

  123. ‘Native Americans’ is an insulting term and really quite racist, PZ. We are to refer to such groups as ‘The indigenous people’s who occupied the land now known as the USA prior to their rape and massacre by Europeans’. For obvious reasons people now avoid discussing them at all.

  124. ‘Native Americans’ is an insulting term and really quite racist, PZ. We are to refer to such groups as ‘The indigenous people’s who occupied the land now known as the USA prior to their rapine and massacre by Europeans’. For obvious reasons people now avoid discussing them at all.

  125. LOL. FRank. If no one else talks and they do, AISA gets listened to. Whoever dares wins, and I doubt the operations team will browse through ACLF once a week or something for some ideas about how to run match days.

    @PZ. My bad – too many chiefs and not enough native Americans.

  126. ‘Native Americans’ is an insulting term and really quite r-acist, PZ. We are to refer to such groups as ‘The indigenous people’s who occupied the land now known as the USA prior to their rapine and massacre by Europeans’. For obvious reasons people now avoid discussing them at all.

  127. ‘The indigenous people’s who occupied the land now known as the USA prior to their rapine and massacre by Europeans’….is the correct term.

  128. ‘The indigenous people’s who occupied the land now known as America prior to their rapine and massacre by Europeans’….is the correct term.

  129. indigenous

  130. who occupied

  131. the land known as

  132. and massacre

  133. by Europeans

  134. Sorry that was the only to write that sentence without being moderated.

  135. No hang on the word rap-e is not allowed

  136. Nor mass-acre it seems

  137. prior to their rap-e and mass-acre by Europeans

  138. The English language it seems is an offense to some.

  139. Many supporters and supporters groups write to the Arsenal administration almost daily about these issues, Darius. The fact that until now the administration has chosen only to meet with AISA is very, very telling. IG has recently met with Red Action, which is a start. 4 years after the stadium was built.

  140. I think I have said enough. Sorry…

  141. Why don’t we get a little monthly round-up of ACLF’s brightest ideas and send it off to Ivan.

    YW, you’re in charge. Capo de Capos.

    Frank, you can be chief lieutenant, lead negotiator and ideas man. You are our Wartime Consiglieri.

    The rest of us can carry on as usual, driving fierce debate, procrastinating about formations, generally getting the dirty work done on the front line. We are the soldiers.

    I think first idea to be articulated should be Frank’s Arsenal legends pub idea.

    All those in favour…

    PS. Vito Mannone is actual head of the family. YW is acting Capo for now. Due both to tax purposes and a fear of assasination on our last pronouncable goalkeeper.

  142. So Frank is the chief, and we are the native Americans.

  143. The first Arsenal Legends pub should be the Tony Adams.

  144. Merse will swiftly be banned from the Tony Adams when found doing chop in the pisser.

  145. I hear Anders Limpar is now a bookie in Sweden. Maybe if we could find a corner of the concourse for him to run a betting shop from, maybe he’d come back to us.

  146. We can have a Biergkamp Bar.

  147. The Cider, Port & Perry Groves?

  148. Steve Morrow and Wojiech Scezsney can be joint licensees of The Broken Arms.

  149. Champagne Charlie’s

  150. Ray’s Parlour

  151. How about simply ‘Brady’s'? Or would that be more of a wine bar. “The Bould’s Head” would be a great pub.

  152. Brady’s would be where the young’uns get served without ID.

  153. A mexican bar simply called, ‘Sol’

  154. Other pub names

    King Henry XIV
    The Mad Jens
    The Ole Paddy V
    The Beer Kamp
    Duduville
    Little Jack Willy
    A Cultured Left Foot
    Buffalo Bill Gallas
    Verminator Arms
    Bang Persie Bang

  155. The Mad Jens! Imagine happy hour there. Lot’s of metal and jagermeister.

    The King Henry XIV is inspired. Bravo. The thinking mans choice, to retire and discuss over a few courvoisiers.

  156. how about a sweet shop inside the ground called the ‘Chocolate Leg’?

  157. {Don’t Phart where you drink} for Trolls?

    It can also be

    [Don't Drink where you Phart]

  158. The Insatiable C*nt for Ade?

  159. Limper. I think it’ll be more appropriate to name a toilet instead if at all we have to do anything for the lanky fella.

  160. Anybody know the latest on Nasri and Walcott ?

  161. The lanky fella can be the vomit receptacle outside the bar…he has a big mouth.

  162. Good question Muppet,

    You would imagine that Theo will be back for Fulham. Would have been nice to see him tomorrow on the right with Vela down the left of an attacking three.

    I am trying to work out how Gibbs, Traore and Vela will all play tomorrow. Any ideas?

  163. Vela CF?

  164. Mean Lean,

    No idea. Gibbs was deployed as a midfielder in the latter stages of pre season wasn’t he ? Vela is an out and out striker, surely ? Traore, from what I have seen, is a flank player, but whether he is a full back of winger, I’ve no idea.

    I hope that Vela has beefed up a bit. Gibbs is top top class, and it would be nice if he could play on the left midfield. We need pacey options on the wings.

  165. Vela spent the weekend in the gym, Muppet, so he should have bulked up quite a bit.

  166. I think Gibbs only played for about 20 minutes in central midfield.

  167. “I think it’ll be more appropriate to name a toilet instead if at all we have to do anything for the lanky fella.”

    What about The Streak of Piss? Could be a bar or a lavatory.

  168. Yeah, excellent. After we all drink in the “Streak of Piss”, there should be a separate section of the ground, preferably sunken, where all the trolls, media hacks and other arseholes all assemble in a huddle, where they can be pissed upon from above.

  169. That would be quite a novelty for the hacks, accustomed as they are to pissing on things from below.

  170. By the way PZ, I’ve just finished reading a book called The Monster Of Florence, which is absolutely amazing. It’s written by Douglas Preston, a thriller writer and Mario Spezi, a crime reporter from Florence. It’s the story of the 16 murders, including 7 double murders of couples that occurred in and around the Florence area between the 1960s and 1985, as you may know.

  171. I wondered about the whole Gibbs central midfield thingy but as he is Gael’s deputy, I cannot see Wenger wanting to shift him around too much.

    Quick change of topic. I want to mention the good old doomers.

    Has anyone else noticed that they write exactly the same way. No spaces after a full stop, no capitals and awful spelling.

    Ok, I hold my hands up my spelling is piss poor but I like to think I can structure a sentence correctly.

    Frank, didn’t you do some doomer research recently. I didn’t hear what the results of that.

    Doomer example:

    i think wenger needs to stop pertendin dat he ownz da money and buy establised world class stars.denilson iz a joke and rvp is neva a center striker.

    Can someone explain to me why this is?

  172. Don’t worry, Muppet, it wasn’t me. I’ve only ever killed people in fair fights.

  173. I wasn’t implying of course, that you were the Monster. Well… in a world of possibilities…

  174. The silence of the Trolls.

  175. Did the book mention that at least one of each couple was wearing a man utd shirt?

  176. The italian police were apparently so incompetent that they trashed the crime scene, where each of the lovers were killed. Mellor wore a chelsea shirt didn’t he ? But he was unfortunately not killed. Maybe they burnt the shirts in a rage, if they were discovered.

  177. I just love the new 433, it has paid off..

  178. This part of FIFA rules is worth noting:

    FIFA Rules

    Allowance for Time Lost

    Allowance is made in either period for all time lost through:
    • substitution(s)
    • assessment of injury to players
    • removal of injured players from the field of play for treatment
    • wasting time
    • any other cause
    The allowance for time lost is at the discretion of the referee.

  179. LOL nice picture Luke

  180. Luke,

    It’s at the discretion of the referee but he’s not allowed to manufacture time.

    I’ve heard the BBC side of the story, but whichever way you look at it, there were not 6.5 minutes of extra time to be played in that game.

    The Chelski-Scum game had 8 minutes extra despite, substitutions, and 2 fairly long suspensions in play for Drogba & Bassong to get treatment.

  181. Every decision the referee takes is at his discretion, but that’s not an excuse for getting significant decisions wrong.

    It’s like the Chrystal Palace goal controversy. The referee used his discretion to deny the goal but it was the wrong decision.

    Don’t buy into the stupid justifications for what’s fast becoming a refereeing crisis.

    I still can’t believe all the pundits say Clattenburg had a good game when we played Citeh.

    Sure, he had a good game, he only got like 4 major decisions wrong.

  182. Is it me or is the football world suffering from dementia, know fucker knows the rules anymore. Is it getting a bit confusing for them now. bloody hell i’ve never known such bollox, its all that Platini’s fault.

  183. Does anyone know if the game is being streamed live anywhere tonight please

  184. This was news to me this morning but maybe I haven’t been playing close enough attention.

    ‘Ivan Gazidis has confirmed to the AST that the final recruitment to his new-look executive team will be Richard Law who will work alongside Ivan himself and Arsène Wenger on all football-related matters. While not specifically a ‘director of football’ in the usual understanding of the role, Richard will work on issues such as player signings and contractual arrangements, the club’s scouting network, and reviewing the structure and size of Arsenal’s squad to meet the changing regulations laid down by FIFA, UEFA and national football authorities. Richard has been acting as an advisor to Arsenal for several years and already has a good ! working relationship with Arsène Wenger. ‘

  185. Who the flap is Richard Law?

    I don’t about you guys but i’m practically peeing with excitement about tonight.

  186. No, the game isn’t being streamed live. It’s being shown at 10 o’clock on Arsenal TV online.

  187. I see from that picture that Rooney’s hours on the treadmill over the summer have paid off.

  188. Everyone knows man utd were given extra time to score a winning goal, and everyone knows it happened at the discretion of the referee.

  189. The Bbc dont know, oh wait….they were doing that defending Man utd whatever again.

  190. Ole Gunner

    Just to clarify, I was trying to demystify (for myself at least) how the whole mechanics of extra time works. Is it like NBA where the clock stops once the ball is out of play and clock restarted only when play resume? Apparently not as scientific as that. And the fact that it is not that scientific makes nonsense of all the Man U supporters’ justification of the ET by saying goal celebrations = 45 secs, substitution = 30 secs, etc. My previous perception was that ET is only justified by inordinate / excessive time wastage to to re-start the game from a throw in, goal kick, injury, substitutions, etc. But not the whole of each stoppage, surely. Therefore, my contention is same as yours. The referee was not totally unbiased in the Manchester derby and refereeing standard has not been up to the mark.

  191. Look at that! The facts show Man poo get more extra-time than necessary when they need it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/22/manchester-united-goals-stoppage-time

  192. Why not have a basketball style countdown clock that the ref controls?

    At least then it would be transparent to everybody how much time is being allowed.

    The current method invites the accusation of bias against the ref.

  193. On the commentary of the game on Radio 5, the commentator, or his oppo, said that the ref adds a minute for each goal and 30 seconds for each substitution. I imagine that is the source of the mancs claims of ‘fairness’.

    No one seems to have a definitive idea of how a referee calculates aded time. That can’t be right.

    More like WWF every week.

  194. QoS,

    Or an independant time keeper who’s job is solely to record the time. I think ref’s have enough to think about without deciding when and when not to stop and start a stopwatch.

  195. If the referee adds a minute for each goal, and 30 seconds for each substitution, then the game should have gone on for 7(goals)+3(subs)=10 minutes minimum.

    No game goes on that long without serious injuries. I remember when Eduardo’s leg was broken, that much extra time was not added.

  196. LimparAssist,

    Are you American?

  197. Queen of Suburbia

    i think a basketball style countdown clock will suck for football matches.and the reason is that their is to much time out in basketball game and which obviouly sucks and i know most peolpe here who dont know basketball rules might be abit confused of the point that i am trying to make.and i think football is fine the way it is and i hope there wont be any changes unless offcourse in the future where things might be completly different compare to know.

  198. Jerome at work, Gadget at home

    Chris Gooner @ 2.13pm yesterday!

    I thoroughly agree, so my little, but probably repeatative rant on the matter.

    The diatribe I see on some site *ahem* Le Grove is utterly disgusting. It’s as though they have some further agenda beyond supporting the club and players. There’s no desire to encourage the players and see them grow, and this “support” is entirely at odds with the philosophy of the man that has taken Arsenal into it’s powerhouse stage.

    There too much expectation to win a trophy methinks. In fact I think it’s more than an expectation, and in my opinion that’s a bad think in terms of support. The support of some of our fans seem to indicate their total support is conditional, that condition, an important condition, being trophies.

    The thing is trophies do not make a team. You support the team, and the players. You don’t pass judgement as to whether or not these players are “good enough” for the team because that’s not really for us to say. That for the manager to realise. As you correctly say you can pass judgement on a player’s performance, but the underlying stance should be one of encouragement.

  199. Consols, I heard there was a ‘standardisation’ of time added on for different types of stoppages before France ’98 (? might have got the wrong tournament). As you say, 30 secs for a substitution etc. I think the minute or 45 seconds for a goal was only used for prolonged goal celebrations. But you’re right, I don’t think anyone really knows.

    Big basketball clock with loud countdowns is the way forward. Pinging it from the halfway line when the shotclock’s running down.

    “The bases are loaded, scores tied at the bottom of the ninth, super-over-time elapsing, FIVE-FOUR-THREE, here comes the pitch…”

  200. Jerome at work, Gadget at home

    Nah Gooner 2, I agree with those calling for an American time controlling system. I follow both the NFL and NBA, and the system works.

    However, I can see a few problems namely the quick taking of throw-ins, corners, and free-kicks. In saying that, this isn’t too problematic

  201. Is that Meat Loaf, LA?

  202. The clock only needs to be stopped for certain things…i.e. a goal and a substitution. Leave the injury situation down to the refs discretion to prevent blatant cheating.

    Ref signals 3 mins for injuries then that’s what is played. I don’t really see any massively logical arguments against it.

  203. Darius,

    That is a great anecdote re your Cambodian gooner.

    Being stuck in Oz, I’m yet to put up the dosh for an Arsenal shirt (would prefer to cheap it on a training shirt) but reluctant to purchase online.

    I won’t rest until I paint Adelaide, SA red and white however. So next time your on the pacific rim, you should be able to see Adelaide on the horizon. Just look for the red and white glow after dusk.

    Long live the Gunners.

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