Denilson: Another Wenger Special or Absolute Waste of Space?
A guest post from Aaditya Gupta this morning:
Over the 2008/09 season, no player has been more controversial in terms of popular opinion as Denilson. Everybody, from bloggers, to the press, to my neighbour’s dog, to the tramp outside Stamford Bridge, to the fish in the Thames, has an opinion about him. There are people who put him at the level of a headless chicken and there are others who call him the new DM legend at Arsenal. Let us examine from both sides.
Denilson is too small to be a defensive midfielder in such a physical league. He gets muscled away by opponents. Most of the time, he stands and watches as the man he was supposed to be marking beats him for pace and strength. He loses the ball far too often and he only knows how to pass sideways. Hold on a sec there!
Sure, Denilson passes the ball around sideways all the time, I’m sure that’s how he got seven assists this season, six of those before Christmas. Robin van Persie, an out and out striker, got the most assists for Arsenal in the Premier League with eleven throughout the season. This means that until December, Denilson was Arsenal’s best playmaker, above Cesc and Van Persie, neither of whom by the way, gets any slack for not showing up.
Denilson was NOT supposed to be a defensive midfielder. He was a centre midfielder in the same mould as Cesc. In January, Mr. Wenger realised that our defence was too disorganised with Gallas and Toure were both sweepers. Denilson was asked to defend a bit more. Result? 21 unbeaten Premier League games.
In our unbeaten run of 21 games and the Chelsea match which we lost, Denilson played in 21 of the 22 matches. He was subbed off only at Anfield on the 65th minute. With Denilson on pitch, we conceded 13 goals in 2,045 minutes (1 goal every 157 minutes). When he was off, we conceded 6 goals in 115 (1 goal every 19 minutes). On top of this, he won the ball more times than anyone else in the league, 254 to Barry’s 187. And just to top it all off, 60% of the time he wins it back with an interception, completely eliminating the chance of a foul or a card.
So let’s get this straight. When he attacks, he is one of the best playmakers in the league. When he defends, our team’s defense is magically plugged. For somebody who’s an Under-21, pretty amazing, no?
Denilson is not going to become and out-an-out playmaker like Cesc. He is also not going to become a monster in midfield like Essien. However, he has the potential to be a great midfield general, similar to Xabi Alonso, who can both start attacks from deep as well as create a wall for the defence.
Denilson is too inexperienced to handle both roles efficiently at the same time. How are we going to give him that experience? Normally, match time gives them the experience to be better players. Unless you expect him to become magically better from the sidelines like in the manager modes of the FIFA series.
With the arrival of Vermaelen, and the coming of age of Djourou, our centre back pairing will be a lot more organised. With that, plus Arshavin, Rosicky and Cesc all working towards creating chances, Eduardo and RVP to finish the gazillion chances which they create, I think Denilson will be able to settle down and develop properly into the great player we know he can be.
Compare that to Melo who cost £15m and misses out 9 games a season due to suspension. Or Cana who is now negotiating with the likes of Sunderland. Denilson is cheaper than both these players, and at his age, light years ahead of where they were. Watch out for him, he is going to be the surprise package this season!
Back tomorrow with an Emirates Cup preview. ’til Then. YW.
Posted on July 31, 2009, in Arsenal, Football, Premier League, Premiership, Soccer and tagged Arsenal, Denilson, Football, Premier League, Soccer. Bookmark the permalink. 528 Comments.
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first
Waste of space!
yeah .. YEAH thanks to twitter .. now to read the post
Waste of space.
I liked this post alot, you’d won me over by the end. Interesting use of statistics which show Denilson as clearly underrated – were there any other significant line-up differences that might explain why we leaked so many goals when he wasn’t on the pitch?
I agree with you that we have areal player here, but the surprise package next season will be Bendtner. I really think he will make all those fans that gave him a hard time feel a little humbled this season.
“When he attack he is one of the best playmakers in the league..”
I don’t think the stats back this up
I think Denilson has great pass succession rate because he will choose the easier option, which is not surprising playing next to cesc.
I think Denilson needs to work on tracking the attacking players from midfield
But I do see potential
RVP for captaincy anyone?
“In our unbeaten run of 21 games and the Chelsea match which we lost, Denilson played in 21 of the 22 matches. He was subbed off only at Anfield on the 65th minute. With Denilson on pitch, we conceded 13 goals in 2,045 minutes (1 goal every 157 minutes). When he was off, we conceded 6 goals in 115 (1 goal every 19 minutes). On top of this, he won the ball more times than anyone else in the league, 254 to Barry’s 187. And just to top it all off, 60% of the time he wins it back with an interception, completely eliminating the chance of a foul or a card.”
This says it all.
When was this post written actually…. Melo cost about 21 mil and Cana is already at sunderland!
“Compare that to Melo who cost £15m and misses out 9 games a season due to suspension. Or Cana who is now negotiating with the likes of Sunderland. Denilson is cheaper than both these players, and at his age, light years ahead of where they were. Watch out for him, he is going to be the surprise package this season! “
Agree he stepped up in the first half of the season and did well, but i was at all the home games and there were times in the second half of the season where our midfield was being overrun. I agree with browny about bendtner. The boys got some fantastic link up play, and yes i know its preseaon but he does seem to link up well with eduardo doesnt he. Once he finds his confidence, and a few more of the booers are off his back i think he will come good.
ANyway back to the point, denilson. At 21 with stats like that, if he can become more consistent on the positive aspects of his game, then we got a hell of a talent there. I hope this is his season to shine.
denilson = gilberto, legends
I dont like Denilson as a DM. And as CM, he’s at best a poor man’s Cesc imo. But with the stats, I want to give him another chance though I would rather we go get a DM with the right attributes than try to change a CM (backup for Cesc) into a DM.
Having said that, in all fairness, as yoou rightly pointed out, fans have their favourites like Cesc and RvP who can do no wrong. Both legs of CL semis against Man Utd Cesc went missing but no flaks;if he fails to do his own part of tracking back we either blame Song, Denilson or the CBs which is unfair really.
If Denilson really puts more passion and intelligence into his play especially the big games that matter at the final part of the season, he has done well. But we still need that commanding DM with Denilson, Song and Diaby as backup. Great piece too!
Now THAT’S a PROPER article!
Denilson was NOT supposed to be a defensive midfielder. He was a centre midfielder in the same mould as Cesc.
That’s not actually true, when he was first signed all reports suggested he was a defensive midfielder and seen as a long term replacement for Gilberto.
I think he’s doing fine.
most of those unbeaten games were with A.Song playing as our dmf
~~!-he was dmf cozz
-he ran back with run of play to defend
-when we were attking he didnt run out of holding position
-he defended
waste of space? just not good enuff for arsenal.
agree
A.Song is actually a really good dmf
Denilson plays more like Cesc
unfortunately hes just crap compared to Cesc
“Denilson is not going to become an out-and-out playmaker like Cesc. He is also not going to become a monster in midfield like Essien.”
I think this sums up what most people see as the problem with Denilson. If you ask Joe Blow, he’ll tell you that as a CM, you have to either be a pass-master or a ball winner, not a jack of all trades. In any event, at Arsenal, your play must be spectacular!
Wenger sees it very differently. He wants players in the middle who can read the game and make the right play for the team, both on offense and defense. Denilson is a well-rounded player, although he is not spectacular in the typical Wenger mold. He also still has a lot to improve in his game. However, he is very talented and will become a revelation in years to come.
I do not care what the match statitics say in which Denilson has palyed. He is shit and not good enough to play for Arsenal. He has no stature, mainly returns passes to a team mate after receiving the same,creates nothing, does not score goals, tackles and defends badly and loses concetration during games. If he was any good, why is it that no offer has ever come in for him and no fan wears his name on their club shirt! Along with Baptista, he proves that Brazil sometimesproduce crap footballers.
thanks YW, the rest of you should quit bitching and get behind the team, most of what you feel we all feel but we have to give this team at least two years before the sort of comments that are all too common these days.
Gunner90: what is Denilson supposed to do – hoof the ball upfield every time?
Denilon had a great first full season. I honestly believe that he is an Arsenal captain in the making, and gets not nearly enough credit that he deserves. If you actually watch him at games he does all of what I call the scruffy stuff. Fills in gaps, drops back, picks up players when other have pushed on etc etc.
Cesc will go back to Spain one day. The clever money is on the fact that he will return to Barca for a large sum of cash plus Yaya Toure. Yaya and Denilson may well be a future pairing.
You heard it here first.
Very good and informative post.
Hey, how do i get my arsenal site on newsnow or goonernews?? please get back to me..i will appreciate!
http://arsenal4us.wordpress.com/page/2/
######## Hats Off to you and Denilson. He will be wenger special. Can anyone tell me of another player in the world who can run like an energizer bunny from 1st to 90th minute.Unbelivable. Yes he makes some mistakes but give him a break. I have seen some games when it goes to extra time you see him and u think he just got in as a sub. He is like u turn it on and keeps going. You were right about his interceptions.. doesn’t tackle but jumps in front of passes and nicks it.. Not to mention the way he receives the balls with control even in close proximity.he dose get out muscled but not easily. GO DENILSON.
Moronic, light years ahead of melo and cana at their age, you’ve no clue there and his best position is on the bench. Wenger chased alonso, melo, etc etc for a very good reason, that wenger is trying to force down the market when he sees prices he doesn’t like hasn’t and won’t work, it’s a market, not a monopoly.
Also, Baptista is an excellent player, he made the grade at AFC but Wenger just had other plans, like staying in the top four on a shoestring. Denilson is obviously too young to even be discussing, the lad should have been loaned out, same with ramsey, diaby, bendtner, etc. We pay this kids like their veterans, only because we have no veterans to set the club straight. Light years ahead of cana and melo at their age, cheap, thoughtless, irrelevant- guess cana and melo went to plaid. I was light years ahead of denilson at his age and look where i ended up!
If we play a 4-2-3-1 this year Arsenal will be a wonderful team. Song and Denilson as the two midfielders.
There are a lot of people commenting here who will never see Denilson play (most never see a full game, just highlights). As a supporter who goes to games I can only say that the poster is correct.
Denilson will become the best midfielder playing for Brazil.
Gunner90 is he supposed to return a pass to the opposition. You are a clown or an idiot. You choose.
Stats sometimes fool people and as such it can only be used as a reference. For those who had watched every game of Arsenal, one would easily come to a conclusion that Denilson is not good enough for Arsenal. Physically weak, slow in pace, no dribble and constructive pass ability.
His stats were obtained as he was used to be passing to his nearest teammate. He was used to doing the same in the box, it resulted in either making an assist in goal or putting his own teammate in a risky position.
He seldom put his legs in and always waited and waited until his teammates to put their legs in taking every opportunity to pick up a loose ball.
Denilson will only be looking good when it was an Arsenal day but he will never be the one who can turn something around.
Who the fuck is joe blow ffs?
goonerboy you are a fool who reads the medai (and you know it), Your blog started OK and the became the biggest pile of shite 2nd only to le grove.
In my opinion Denilson is a neat & tidy player. But he is too lightweight and gets caught out postionally quite bit. Saying that though, he can always improve in time. Its just matter of if and when. Like with all our young players. I would like DM with physical presents and an intelligents that matches our play. Looking out into the world of football, there does’nt seem to be a whole lot of options. All of the world class one’s are at big clubs already. So maybe we have to mould own. Which will take time.
song is very different to denilson. song’s physically strong and good at man marking, denilson is much better at reading the game.
what do you expect from a dm? he always makes sideway or back passes? isn’t a dm supposed to make safe passes? and at the same time he made 7 assists. quite remarkable isn’t it?
it’s really funny that once Makelele got a lot of stick for making only sideway passes. LOL
Denilson is going to be an Arsenal legend, at 21 years of age he is better than the vast majority of his peers, he’s twice the player Anderson is for instance and tactically while no Aonso shows an incredible amount of maturity when in possession. He’s only going to get better.
I bet you were one of the anti Gilberto fans as well.
http://www.arsenal4us.wordpress.com
can someone tell how i can get my arsenal blog to be viewed on newsnow and goonernes.com??
All I can add is, (Support your team you useless wankers).
Yogi, when you post at this late you do get some f*ckin idiots in board.
missed an hour there
You are right- has improved basic skills- he will come good-eventually when he grows. In the meantime, his positional play, passing and final ball need to improve. When they do- in approx 3-4 years time he will be the man- at the moment he is not physically or positionally strong enough against the top 4 midfields. Having a fit Rosicky would help him.
great post. all ur facts were spot on! i thought denilson performances againts man utd at old trafford and roma at the emirates were two of the best performances i saw last season. but very few people acknoledge it. in my opinion afte watching melo, denilson is a better player. im glad we didnt buy him. thanks
Excellent player.
I agree with a few of the posters that Denilson will sit there alongside Song. Song will be the “destroyer/Vieira” figue and Denilson will be the “inteeligent/Gilberto” figure, with Fabregas just doing what he pleases.
Arsene will not even be considering a top quality signing because those two are top quality, he will sign a backup player like Matuidi.
goonergerry he had the best interseptions in the league last season. his positional play must be good to do that. Right?
I think you are another newspaper reader to be honest. Please tell me if I am wrong.
Goonergerry I always get the impression that you are Irish for some reason. Matbe from another blog!
Matbe is not the word. Let us try maybe.
All bollox then Gerry?
All put into 1 comment Gerry and then no more information to input. Maybe a brain overload?
Wenger will play a 433
– - – - – - – - Almunia
Sagna – Gallas – Vermaelen – Clichy
– - – - – Denilson – Song
– - – - – - – Fabregas
Nasri – - – van Persie – - – Arshavin
Nobody can tell me that that team is not awesome. NOBODY!
Oh well (bit of fleetwood mac there yogi). Time for bed.
Tom; Nasri has a broken leg
For about a month into the season – he will be alive after that you know.
But you can put in Rosicky instead.
Or Walcott, or Bendtner, or Wilshere or Vela or even van Persie.
Thanks for the great article. I wish to quell any thoughts of De Rossi or any other big name loser, Arsenal will stick with actual quality, not mythical averageness.
I am off to bed.
Nasri will be our secret weapon for the final stages of the season.
I agree with Tom
Couple of misconceptions to clear up.
1. Denilson has been a ‘volante’ (classical defensive midfielder) throughout his career in Brazil from the age of 11 when he joined Sao Paulo. To say otherwise is nonsense – he is not and has not played in Cesc’s position ever.
2. The main reason he is accused of “being lightweight” is because as most Sth Am players he goes down when kicked or fouled. He was the 4th most fouled player in the Prem league last year (same number as Ronaldo), when you add the 254 times he won tackles and intercepts to the 74 fouls he won (328) you get a player head and shoulders above all the rest in terms of winning possession.
He receives and gives more passes than any other Premier League player and is second in passing in the CL, and second in tackling in the CL. This is because his teammates have confidence in him and because he is always available to take a pass. The critics simply have no idea about the role of DM, the role that AW has him playing.
As Denilson also admitted in a recent interview AW places a high premium on him not losing possession, hence he passes about 40% of the time backwards or sideways (the safest option under pressure). For comparison Cesc passes about 33% backwards or sideways (the team playmaker).
jbh – thanks for those comments.
Denilson is THE BEST.
Surely and without a doubt.
I LOVE THIS GUY.
Well done Denilson.
Keep up a good work.
We support you.
A Useless donkey
Denilson is doing fine. Critics of his passing are missing the importance of retaining and not conceding possession to your opponents, linking play, performing fetch & carry roles of midfielders. He can only get better and better.
agree
Denilson is so good and need game time to gain the experience becoz nobody was born experienced.
i would love AW to use 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-1-3 system not 4-4-2. Song n’ Denilson holding midfielders.lol..
Good post. I agree. For a playa with balls the size of Denilson’s, he’s come under a lot of criticism. Lay off the brother, guys! It’s it’s first full season, he has balls the size of grapefruit, and he’ll only get better.
Look at how good Song became when he learnt that you need to run hard and tackle hard AS WELL as having great hair and a famous uncle. That quantum leap turned Song Bilong into one of the top ten players in the world, of all time. And next season, that change could occur with Denilson.
About the pass-backing, has ANYONE considered that maybe we were too shite for Denilson to pass forwards to? I mean, who really wants to pass forwards to an offside Adebayor?
This is what happened last season:
“Pass to me, Denilson!” Ade says
“You’re offside, Manu!” Denny replies
“How about now?” Ade asks
“Still offside!” Denny replies
“Fuck it, I’m off to Man City then!” Ade says, and storms off to a 200 billion pound a week paycheck.
I’m one of the few – or so it turned out – that believed that denilson should have been our player of the year. As for those who say he doesn’t have size I think you’ve been used to ugly football. Look at Xavi or Iniesta, what size? In football talent out does size. If size was so important Bolton would be league champions and england would win every world cup! at least the atim Index understood that denilson was our best player. and pat rice also knows that. he said that they’d turned down a 20 million pound offer for denilson. now for a 20 year old that enormous!
Denilson despite his small stature he runs around everywhere and works hard you can say what you like about Denilson but one thing you can never doubt is his commitment and hard work almost every time, that is why Wenger rely on him he has a fantastic attitude and he has done well for his first season in the first team. Next season he will be more experienced more settled and one thing people seem o forget he is very young the likes of Gilberto and Viera hit their heighst at the age of 25 so he has plenty of time to achieve what he want.
Great post.
The crap Denilson gets from the doomers is laughable. Seeing people describe Denilson as being a waste of space really makes me sick. Denilson is far from a donkey. The kid is a stud. Period.
DENILSON is a good player who is only going to get better and better until he becomes a real star. Am surprised that people choose to ignore his starts for whatever reasons – those starts do not come from nowhere, they are earned. he may not be Michael Essien, yes, but people should not forget that he is a playmaker-turned DM, that is he is going to be a 2 -in-1. Gunners, stop booing our players and aiding the opposition in the process – it is disgusting!!!
Extremely well written. I think the reason for the widespread dislike of Denilson is because people expect him to be a monster DM like Essien and they don’t appreciate the qualities of a playmaking DM like Pirlo or Alonso. All they need to do is look at Alonso’s price tag and also realize that once he leaves for Madrid, Denilson could probably be the best deep lying playmaker in the league.
Yogi or anyone who knows,
Where are these stats from? Link me if possible.
Thanks!
Fill in the blanks (Names of the players & club)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
(1)_____’s role at (2)_____ was invaluable yet inconspicuous. He sat in front of the back four, intercepting passes and hassling the opposition’s midfielders. Although he was criticized because it seemed he only passed backwards or sideways, many failed to realize that (3)_____ was the starting point for many(4)_____’s attacks.
(5)_____’s subtle brilliance paved the way for more heralded names like (6)_____ and (7)_____ to work their magic up front which made a winning recipe for (8)_____ of which a pinch of (9)_____ was the key ingredient.
To be honest, I’ve never been a big fan of Denilson. It is true that he gets pushed off the ball too easily, but I suppose he is still young. After reading your post I dislike him less. Good points.
Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes.
Great article. the criticism of Denilson is completely unfounded – the guy is going to be a better version of Gilberto – an invisible wall but with more playmaking potential.
Wenger special without a doubt!
God bless and goodnight!
Denislon has captained Brasil at every level so far. that shows the character of the guy. he will be big.
Denilson even. it is early.
Thanks guys. I’ve kinda poached some of these stats from Arsenalinsider, and made a few calculations to get the others. I love Denilson, IMO he kind of embodies Arsenal. Not a big money signing, has a quiet, controversy -free life, looks like my houseboy, but on the pitch, does his job to perfection.
*
“Denilson’s role at Arsenal is invaluable yet inconspicuous. He sits in front of the back four, intercepting passes and hassling the opposition’s midfielders. Although he has been criticized because it seems he only passes backwards or sideways, many fail to realize that Denilson is the starting point for manyArsenal’s attacks.
Denilson’s subtle brilliance paves the way for more heralded names like Fabregas and Arshavin to work their magic up front which make a winning recipe for Arsenal of which a pinch of Denilson is the key ingredient.”
*
Actually the answers are:
1) Makelele
(2) Real Madrid
(3) Makelele
(4) Real Madrid
(5) Makelele
(6) Zidane
(7) Figo
(8) Real Madrid
(9) Makelele
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/77830-claude-makelele-the-greatest-galactico
Even the great Makelele was accused by many football fans and even Florentino Perez, then the president of Real Madrid, of lacking talent and making only sideways and backwards passes.
Not that I’m saying Denilson’s reached the Makelele level; but if you’re going to criticise the performance of a player, how about first trying to understand the job description of the position that player plays in, rather than utter that phrase – he is sh*t – without even trying to back up their argument against him with some sound evidence.
Btw, I wrote this about a week back, and yeah, I got mixed up with Melo’s price
Cheers Aaditya,
I’m a Denilson fan, but had no idea his stats were so impressive…I’d like to compare and contrast his stats with a few other similar players in the EPL, hence my earlier question.
I’ve been reading a fair few posts/blogs talking about a Song, Denilson and Fabregas midfield 3…does anyone think this might leave us a bit vulnerable to counter attacks down our flanks? I say that, because we all know Clichy and Sagna push forward and without wide mids there may be no one to pick up opponents wingers on the break.
Great post.
The Denilson critics are basing their opinions on the handful of bad games he had for us last season – and he did have some bad games, where he looked nervous and out of his depth.
But most of his critics don’t have a clue about the job that he does for the team week in, week out.
Some other poster said that if Denilson had cost us 15 million last summer and broken someone’s ankle in a bad tackle in his first game, we would all be singing his name. He’s dead right. Arsenal fans seem to be getting more ignorant about football every year.
“looks like my houseboy”
You can’t be serious.
Excellent article. Denilson was my player of the season last season. I hope to see more of him this coming season.
@maria – its true, there’s a striking resemblance!
And another point – if the doomers and marquee fantasists were allowed to hound Denilson out of the club, they would feel pretty stupid when he became one of the world’s MVPs at some other top club.
Denilson will be good for good for a team like Hull or Stoke but for a team that wants to win the league forget it.He is a poor mans Cesc and is not a DM.When it comes to a DM Song is better than Denilson.
Ask yourself this question if Wenger rated Denilson so highly why buy a 33 year old(Vieira).And in the Champions league semi finals Arsene dropped him
Next signing Blaise Matuidi with PV4 as his mentor
I cannot see Wenger buying Viera surely. he never goes back.
I love the people who say you can ignore the stats. What a bunch of fuckwits.
“I don’t care about facts – I know better than facts, my opinions are more reliable than facts”
and on and on.
Denilson is already one of the best – fact.
I think he’ll go on to be great – opinion.
Morning Yogi.
stats are a good one take last season… Denilson had better stats then Alonso but i bet most pundtits and media and nutreuls would say Alonso had the better season.
HE IS SO NOT A WASTE OF SPACE. HE’S REALLY GOOD
I doubt whether he’s ever gonna be one of the world’s MVPs that’s just silly talk.Nobody wants to hound him out but the bottom line is he just isn’t physically strong enough when the goin gets tough,i don’t know how many times last season i watched as he was eased off the ball as if he wasn’t there.You have to understand that teams play a certain way against us just because we’re Arsenal.It’s cynical but everyone does it,it’s the big Sam,Tony Pulis,Phil Brown Gary Megson method of “just get in there face and kick’em hard” and we are not able for that with Denilson in the side we need to harden up and get rid of the marshmallow centre.Denilson,Song and Diaby just don’t cut it…
@Aaditya
Great Post. At this rate I think YW doesn’t need to write again… ever.
Though the timing was wrong, caught all the Trolls out there.
After Dennilson plays in Next years world cup, everyone will be linking him to Barcelona.
I was watching Melo play during the confeds, and i thought, “Dennilson is much better”
When we started being linked to Melo i was Aghast, because it would have stifled Denilson’s growth, and yet we would end up with a player worse off than Denilson.
Dennilson is a Master. Watch out for him as we win this years EPL.
Pretty amazing huh ? Bull ! That stats are absolutely amazing for someone who was 20 year old and that was his first season as a regular. Let’s face it he’s much better than Song. He’s got pace, good passing range, skill, strength (apparently so), mobility, and a true leader for the Brazil U-21 team. While Song has got no pace, his short passing is pretty poor, sense of awareness, positioning is still poor, and he still needs more time in the Premier League,, Wenger should loan him !
Keep Denilson,, I would be very mad if Arsenal let him go because he’s just 2 seasons away before becoming a £25 million midfielder !
I say let’s bring back Vieira in a 2 years contract and loan out Song to Portsmouth or Aston Villa. Sell Diaby he’s the real waste of space !
at least the blog now feels like a true ACLF.
pity the guys who cannot rate Dennilson. Oh boy!!!
Hahahah who was that wanker who says get Vieira and Matudi??? Does he think that this Sunderland?
Doomers were like ah get Cana… please, a fool who is only good for Sunderland? Give me a break.
Interesting that even Makelele took some slack. It seems it goes with the job description. hope Denilson understands that.
And for your info you Trolls and Doomers and Wankers. Denilson was Arsenal Player of the season last year!!!!!!!
Denilson is not shit but he is not a great player for sure. Or otherwise, there will be plenty of offers on Wenger’s table for his service.
He will be better in a three man mid along side song and cesc but at the moment he needs the other midfielder and needs confidence to play more expansive passes. No doubting he has potential but is no way there yet.
BTW when was this article written cause Cana has been a suderland player for about a week now!!!
Thanks for this. Denilson is a great player and criminally under appreciated. What’s most disgusting is that when he inevitably gets poached by Real Madrid or Barca the same people who treat him like garbage will be banging on about loyalty and mercenaries. I hate our fans sometimes, I really do.
Arsenalkabisa – Player or the Season (2008/09) was Robin van Persie
Arsenal Legend
Year before that was Cesc Fabregas
@Luke
According to who? Arsenal.com?
According to me it was Denilson. End of.
.com hyped RVP so that he could sign the damn contract. He was dillydallying with the contract signing so they had to show him that they care about him…
Arsenalkabisa
Arsenal.com
Sure, you are entitled to have your own Arsenalkabisa Player of the Season, but please don’t misrepresent it as fact that Denilson has been recognised. He is still under-rated, and under-recognised.
arsenalkabisa,
If you dont rate Denilson, explain why and that is fine. Bloggers who make an erudite one line comment like: “He is a waste of space” are the ones under fire. Your sarcasm is not funny at all.
Alex
Thanks for pointing out that Arsenalkabisa was just being sarcastic.
@Alex
Sarcasm?
Turn your charm on the doomers who think Dennilson is crap. Save your breath and dont waste it on me.
I rate Dennilson VERY VERRY highly. I would love the mid of Cesc Song and Denilson to be the most Successful to ever grace Arsenal… and i know it will happen. they will be bigger than the invincibles, and they will be Legends.
I watched Denilson at home Vs Citeh. He was, by far, the best player on the pitch. He won almost all his headers and most of his tackles, which, when you consider his size, is no mean feat. He does make a lot of saideways passes, but that’s his job. We have Cesc, Rosicky, Arshavin etc to do all the ridiculously good needle threading and wizardry. To expect him to be both hardman is just plain ignorant.
21 unbeaten games , thats when we had a run of many realtively easy games , also 21 unbeaten !!how many did we win ?
Has anyone read the article in the NY Times magazine section about a year ago on the basketball player Shane Battier (click my name for link)? The jist is that certain players, often by doing all the small things right that the average spectator doesn’t notice, improves the performance of his teammates and negatively effects the performance of his opponents. It’s one of the best pieces of sports journalism I’ve ever read and, despite being about basketball, will certainly change the way you think about certain players.
Denilson is a HOLDING midfielder. He is the player the ball comes to when its coming out of defence and the player who intercepts it before it gets to our defence.
His short passing and sideways passing are part of his job. When he is put under pressure in possession of the ball, he nearly always finds a short pass to release another player. He isn’t a lightweight either, he ends up on the ground as often as he does because players have to go through/foul him to get to the ball.
Watch the way he shields the ball, regains possession, and gets the pass to the player who starts the attacks this weekend in the Emirates cup.
Then you will all realise why people who understand more about football than the last game of FIFA they played on their X-box rate him so highly.
hec – WTF??? Do you watch the premier league? 21 games in unbeaten in any of the elite European Leagues is mammoth, let alone the premiership!
Do you even or have you ever played football? To go 21 games unbeaten is amazing… yes we drew a bunch of them but that was more to do with our inability to defend corners & set peices as opposed to being beaten in open play.
please send me access to whatever u are smoking. it must be some really strong stuff. At 18, Xabi Alonso was already being touted as one of the best in the business(deep lying playmaker). Denilson is being proped using numbers(a favorite of Wenger). one of the marks of a good DM, is the confidence it gives the other teammates to rove forward or support.
Den is a Legend!!
Always gets slack but so did gilberto.
it seems that arsenal fans just aren’t able to appreciate this kind of player!
Look and learn fellow Gooners.
Wonderfull article; but one mistake is that Denilson is actually a fantastic passer of the ball; problem is Arsenal of last season lacked good movement. Watch Xavi of 07/08 season; you’ll never see so many sideways passes in you life. plus xavi did this turn around in circles thing.
Guys lay off Denilson; his a very good player; if he leaves Arsenal for another team then we’ll see his worth. My problem with him is that he can’t do Brasilian step overs …poor.
Still have nightmares of that long throw by delap that toure couldnt handle
Next time we meet city, just lump the ball towards toure….will result in a goal for sure. I still remember how scared he looks everytime we play long ball teams.
jose, point to note is that the number passes he made actually implies his team mates trust him;
he saw a lot of the ball both through winning ackles, fouls, interceptions, etc
so what are you talking about? Indirectly admitting that denislosn is actually a great Holding midfielder?
Makalele was thrown out of Madrid for this very reason. Too many silly people who don’t know football try to force their views.
Denilson is fantastic
“looks like my houseboy” made me laugh.
Another interesting aspect to look at
We are a team that possibly has the most possesion of any time in the premier league. This means that most of the time, the ball cannot be “won” because it is already with us. Denilson STILL topped the number of times the ball was won. That really is something.
So is Denilson the great DM we’ve been waiting for to win the title? I watch games to assess not statistics.
His passing rate is high because he passes to the nearest person.
He has no physical presence.
He has no pace to track back.
I’ve not seen him beat two players on the run.
In the 21 unbeaten run, Arsenal played like a West Ham,we lost all our flair.
Denilson is decent but not a title winning DM. 21 games unbeaten run? Mostly lower and midtable team that we drew instead of winning?
He’s bullied in the big games against Chavski, Manu and Pool.
Denilson playing regularly means we’ve drifted to mediocrity.
Denilson won’t survive at the Arsenal because, Coquelin, Wilshere, Ramsey, JET and Frimpong will soon make him surplus to requirement.
In any case, why is Anderson (Manu), Lucas(Pool) are all ahead of him in the Brazil set up? Why?
Why is Cesc also crying for DM reinforcement?
The answer is. Denilson hasn’t got the quality to play for the Arsenal week-in-week out.
He will soon be upstaged by the young boys coming through.
Actually my prediction since last season has been, that in two seasons, Denilson will be sought all over the world. I still stand by that prediction, but I know this season he will improve further from the last one. People still don’t understand that Denilson will replace Vieira as the most dangerous box – to box player in a long time. In one year’s time you will see.
Denilson got most of his assists when Cesc was in the side. It was Cesc who created most of the movements and started the rhythms which our passing game needs. Because most defensive MF attention was on Cesc (not so when he played with alongside Rosicky or Hleb), Denilson was in place to make the assists.
In January it was AW’s change of tactics — asking Clichy and Sagna to get forward less — that resulted in our better defending. Far from it being down to Denilson’s greater defensive awareness, it was an admission that he wasn’t up to it!
Denilson is a good player but he is too weak to play Mf in a 4-4-2 in the PL. Song, on the other hand, shows possibility. The only chance of Denilson really making it at Arsenal is if he develops into a Makelele and we adjust our tactics accordingly. Perhaps…but I doubt it.
Denilson would be a great success in La Liga. In the PL he will always struggle against the Stokes and Hulls. We should invest in a stronger DM (Matudi, M Diarra or De Rossi!) and move Denilson on for his sake and ours.
Well, with him in the DM position, it seems assured that we’ll be experiencing another season of emptiness.
Truly AFC,
You have come on here as Howard, Patrick, 4th the target and Bodad before this. The net result is the same. We know who you are. If you acknowledge that you are Howard, atleast you will win some points for honesty.
not a good tackler, no good in the air, slow, does not track players, passing forward is awful, terrible shot, would not make the chelsea man u or liverpool bench, says it all really.
A very clever abuse of statistics indeed. Why have you chosen only 22 games to compare the goals conceded when Denilson is on the pitch and when he is not. The Chelsea game has been included because it drastically reduces the minutes per goals conceded when Denilson is not on the pitch.
If I had to abuse the same stats I could say that Liverpool scored 2 goals in 10 minutes at the start of the second half at Anfield while Denilson was on the pitch, so minutes per goals conceded when Denilson is on the pitch is just 5.
Interestingly, the goals conceded when Denilson was on the pitch, is also not for the whole season but only for the 21 games where the focus of the whole team was on defence. Anyone remember the string of nil-nil draws! ?
Factually, you are incorrect, when you say that he had 6 assists before Christmas. It was in fact only 4. 5 if I give you the assist on Dec 28
(as seen on statistics on soccernet.) Moreover 4 out of his 7 assists are against W Brom and Blackburn. I do not see how anyone can conclude from these stats that he was Arsenal’s best playmaker before Christmas.
Personally I feel that Denilson is the Fabregas of a lower division. I mean that he is a very good player. But in the context of this Arsenal team he is not good enough for the role he has to perform.
If he had been a total waste of space, the great man would have discarded him and brought in someone else. The infuriating part is that he is almost there and hence he keeps the hope alive while affecting the immediate performance by just the gradient that is the difference between champions and semi-finalists.
Totally agree with your views, Truly AFC.
Denilson plays for the team, not for the audience.
What more do you want from a DM, like Gilberto it takes a while to appreciate him.
Just another thought —
Name any other Wenger special who needed well chosen statistics to prove that he was a Wenger special.
Wenger’s hidden jewels always shine through once he has put them on display.
I have been watching the Pre-season games and found myself thinking that Denilson looks much bigger this season.
I don’t know if it was that he was playing against smaller players but he looked bigger and stronger maybe he has been working hard during the summer?
Anybody else noticed this?
U r all DELOODED
30 odd posts supporting a playa who doesnt TRAK back…doesnt put the FOOT in.. and aint gona fill the boot of BARESI
dENIL8ON AINT
Out of curiosity I decided to compile figures on pass Denilson’s pass direction.
I have his figures for passes sideways and backwards (sideways being between 0˚ and 7˚) before I publish the figures I have to compile those for similar players for comparison.
I would like to know what would be an acceptable percentage of sideways and backward passes for a DM?
YW,
Firstly, to veer from my norm and praise you for a well balanced article. Well done.
Steve and those on a similar vein, I think you say it all. Denilson is great and getting better. Prejudice (here meaning those who act on ‘prejudged’ positions) will continue to affect the weak and ignorant. Those who typically say things like: “statistics/facts don’t count – he’s still no good”. Seesh
Role on the season
Desigunner @ 9:04, GILBERTO?
@desigunner – gilberto would have needed them until his injury, a DMs contribution is rarely noticed until he goes missing. at that time, many of us did not have as easy an access to all these stats as we do now, hence we had to wait till the injury to really see what he does for us.
btw, i could take the entire second half of the season and add the ManU and Stoke games. Denilson was on the pitch the whole 180 mins, and we conceded 1. that only helps a 157min per goal average. I take the defence stats from this point onward because thats when we switched our play to defend more.
Who takes down the data for all these stats? The stats like tackles won & completed passes and all that stuff? Because if its a human, I gaurentee they make half of it up and then go down the pub
Desigunner,
“Wenger’s hidden jewels always shine through once he has put them on display.”
Simplicity is the outcome of technical subtlety; it is the goal not the starting point.
MY TOP 5 DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDERS OF ALL TIME
General Baersi
Stoppa
Doonga
Crusher
Basha
DGob,
U r an AKB.
denilson is shit
Muppet you forgot – Lumpa
Lumpa was overrated – oompa was better.
Having fun Muppet?
I don’t know where you find the energy to fuck with these poor simpletons, but I’m glad you do.
Muppet is a legend.
Not rating Denilson is the same as admitting you’ve no understanding of the game of football whatsoever :/
He will run away soon to Brazil because Coquelin, Ramsey, Wilshere and JET will definitely upstage him in a years time.
He’s not got what it takes to remain at the club; decent but not good enough to win trophies.
ikus – everybody said the same of Flamini up until his last season with us.
Great article Yogi
There are some of us who could talk about this Player for ages(yet we don’t because the ignorant haters are louder than the lovers), as there is so much more that he has provided in comparison to his world class counter parts in rival teams. Personally I would say he was Wenger’s player of the season, flourishing in his new role and completing more starts and minutes than any other Arsenal player by quite a margin..
Thanks again for your incites there’s always something interesting to learn about our young Brazilian prodigy Denilson.
I think Muppet passes sideways too often.
Truly AFC,
You clearly respect Red Nose and hate AW, you think the Manc youth system is better when it was our boys who won the Junior league and FA cup double this time and lastly, you have no respect for most of our current players. How you are a fan from any angle?
TAFC is Howard Alex.
checkit… me knows ze best manager gods in de world r those with the chekbooks … init.. so when de god geezer comes out with ze statement that they arnt gonna spend de wonga…. me gets a bit nervous.. cos where alls de money gonna go.. me finks that we shuld make the decision to invest ze money in a little summat to enhance the performances of the playas at Colney… get my drift… the finest snow that money can buy…
me not of da opinion dat we need a new playa… me is of the opinion that we need to rotate all da playas so ew get a new squad.. dig ? cos without new playas we dont have a new team… and without a new team … we wonna not win the canary cup … or the champagne magnet at the end of the game
me thinks that koloa and ade went for the right reasons init… lodsa soverigns from the bank of middle east.. if I cud have a tiny fraction of that wonga… init.. me cud get so high for weeks dat it wouldnt no matter if arsenal won lost or drew init
Truly AFC
“He will run away soon to Brazil because Coquelin, Ramsey, Wilshere and JET will definitely upstage him in a years time.”
I think you will say the same thing to Coquelin, Ramsey, Wilshere and JET when they play in the first team.
I just want to make a small correction to today’s post: Denilson is already better than Alonso.
Good grief!
Do people really speak like that these days?
You didn’t get the drift Bob. You gotta dig deeper innit….
Excellent guest article – shame about the quality of a lot of the comments that followed it.
Denilson is also better than Barry
Denilson is not that good.
How come people always use statistics to justify him yet top quality midfielders like Cesc, Iniesta or even Patrick Vieira in his prime are judged on their playing ability and ability to influence a match. Statistics or not they still show why they are so highly rated, so all this continous rehash of stats to rate Denilson is boring.
If he was so good how come we kept on losing to teams containing inferior strikers/midfielders i.e. Stoke, Hull, Fulham etc?
Talking about Fulham Denilson was completely dominated by none other than Danny Murphy, who at his best could not surpass Edu Gaspar.
He may be one for the future, but he is by no means a top midfielder, stop trying to justify him as one.
QoS
It is a shame, the stats even prove how valuable Denilson’s performances have been last season. Being an Arsenal player he should get full support even if his stats weren’t that great, the lad is 21, just had a very successful 1st season with us, scoring and assisting from DM, and is rated very highly among all the other DM in the league. His interceptions is greater than anyone elses, and his passing is always on target. What is everyone moaning about, for me he is already ahead of Flamini technically, passing, and his positional sense.
Once the team starts playing better as a unit this season, everyone will sit back and admire what Denilson brings
What I like about Denilson as a midfielder is he always supports the player he passes to, giving him an option for a return pass and not disappearing with an ‘I have done my job’ attitude, that is quite prevalent among young players (understandably caught up with their own game), and this option is often defensive, but when he thinks the opportunity exists can be an attacking one. On balance we have a developing midfielder who can hold, clean up and attack. He is not a general but I think he is strategic, and that is borne out by the stats .
http://arsenal4us.wordpress.com
Hey yogi…do you know how i get my arsenal blog to be viewed by arsenal fans on goonernews.com and newsnow?
please get back to me..thanks
jrock
Half of stats are bullshit though aint they
My attempt is not to prove that Denilson is not a good player. But I do not agree with the use of statistics as done in this article. We played defensively as a team. Thus the large number of draws and quite a few of them goalless. Since Denilson played most part of the season the stats favor him i.e. Minutes per goal is higher when he plays.
If Denilson had been a better DM than Song would Le Boss not prefer him over Song for an important match like the one against Chelsea? My opinion on this matter is that both of them are decent but not exceptional. Hence together they make a solid defensive midfield. I also wont be surprised with a 4-3-3 this year which will play out like a 4-2-3-1 with Denilson and Song both playing holding midfield.
Denilson played a key part in making us reach the semi-finals and secure 4th place. But I do not agree that Denilson is special. I am not even sure if Gilberto was special. He was efficient and did a job but he was nowhere near special. That is precisely why Flamini easily replaced him. Do you think a special captain would be so easily displaced from the first team even if he returned late or was injured at the start? Can you imagine Vieira being kept out of the team like that by anyone?
There is a difference between good/efficient and special. Sometimes that difference can lead to the so near yet so far feeling that we all have been having
Did you watch the pre season game against Hannover? Did you see how impotent Arsenal were in the second half with Denilson and Song in the center of Mid field? Do you remember how many times in the last season AW said we needed more creativity? Song and Denilson were again the CM’s during that time. Are you telling me both were instructed to play as DM’s?
In my opinion Denilson’s problem is not his size but he is a fraction slower in his decision making and his vision is not in the same league as Alonso or Cesc or Xavi. That does not make him a dud but for a team like Arsenal it does slow the tempo down.
I was a fan of Denilson when I saw him two years ago. But he has not reached the level I had expected him to reach. It might be that he is given different roles at different times and that has left him confused and slowed him fractionally. But the end result is that with Denilson we will always fight for 4th and reach within sniffing distance of the trophies. Isn’t that most frustrating!
Finally, I would just love it if Denilson himself can prove me wrong by his performances on the field.
@ateeb: Technical quality shines through. Eduardo is an example. He hasn’t played much due to his injuries but does anyone doubt his qualities?
Renan
Denilson better than song are you joking????
If you are gonna play with a midfield tri then he can be accomodated but with just cesc bench everytime i’s afraid untill he starts bossing that area. He could get there but just looked burnt out half way through last season. But like has already been reasoned it was his first season as a regular starter so some slack is essential.
stats don’t tell the full story… your eyes and understanding of the game do. Denilson has potential but is not ready yet. His positional sense and tactical nouse is nowhere near the likes of a Macherano or a Makele and being Arsenal that is the sort of quality our club should strive for in that position. We shouldn’t be settleing for Denilson and making excuses trying to make him look better than he actually is. Steve you are lambasting anyone who dares to be negative about a player or the club… well what good is false hope and blind optimism going to do? I go to every game and sing my heart out for the team so i support them as much as anyone but doesn’t mean i can’t point out the bad points of our team. It’s that sort of atitude by the fans that has allowed Wenger to turn this once great team into a youth team project that clearly isn’t working. Until the fans start to enter reality and point out our faults nothing will change and it is us fans (i am a season ticket holder) who pay through the nose to watch the team that are losing out. I pay the highest price of any club for my season ticket and am watching players of the caliber of Denilson for it and i’m sorry but the guy wouldn’t get into any of the other top 10 teams starting line ups.
IMO, within Arsenal squad, they are all good players. RVP, Sagna, Dudu and maybe Clich are efficient players. Only Cesc and Arshive can be rated as special.
http://arsenal4us.wordpress.com/
I hope there won’t be another Denilson piece putting him under the microscope again till mid season. It ain’t fair, and it’s not going to convert anyone that he’s good, and good enough for Arsenal too. So what purpose does it serve? Why not just let him get on with the job on the pitch?
I do, however, agree that Cana and others are not as good as Denilson. Melo perhaps is, but I am always scared when the qualities of a footballer are mentioned by the cards he accumulates! I can also see why it is difficult of AW to find better players than the ones he has. There are not many around with a discount tag.
I have often thought about who can replace Denilson and there have not been too many practical options in my limited knowledge. I wonder what would happen if we get someone like De Rossi and he gets injured in his first month.
Ultimately it is the squads that have more great players than good ones will triumph. We need to reach that by buying players or developing our own. How long will it take, either way, I do not know.
goonerjay
settling for Denilson… so you would rather have a more ordinary Barry with no technical ability, you would rather pay 30m for an Alonso, who can only pass and take a long shot/lob…
geeze some fans are so blinded, Denilson is up there with the best CM’s in the league, you can choose to ignore his stats if you want because he aint a BIG NAME like Barry or Alonso who are both very VERY over rated.
If them players are so much better than Denilson and Denilson would struggle to get into their teams LOL, then why is OPTA reporting Denilson to be one of the best in the country? and better than both of them?
Brilliant article. Very persuasive.
I dont know what it is with denilson, sometimes he looks fantastic, sometimes less so, but he seemingly does his job every time.
I think as well out long unbeaten run came when fabregas was out of the team, so it was usually a denilson-song or denilson-diaby midfield combination. So it is unsurprising our defence improved, and could be a good argument for questioning fabregas’ place in the side.
From what I’ve heard, we played more of a 4-3-3 against hannover with song, denilson and fabregas in the middle, and I think that could work out brilliantly. We get our defensive solidarity, it frees denilson or song to go forward a bit more often, and they are both good at doing that (particularly denilson) AND we get to keep our playmaker. Hopefully it would free cesc up a bit and he might start scoring more goals, which im positive hes capable of.
Theres a lot of versatility in the side now, with rosicky and nasri capable of playing in the middle or as wingers, and bendtner, rvp, eduardo and vela all capable of playing up front or at least doing a decent job on the wing. 4-3-3 could solve our problems, although many people have been saying this for about 2 years now
Cool article today.
Den is 21 years old. Whether stats do and don’t tell ‘the full story’ just look what we have in the making, he is not yet the player he will be. Wow!
I anticipate Denilson will captain Brazil one day. He will be a football legend at Arsenal.
Some fans like to undermine the team and certain players to make excuses in their own mind to why Arsenal aint won a trophy for 4 years. It is really pothetic but you can see who the real fans now that the team aint been so successful. I think its simply a backlash from the criticism these fans get from others and the media which we all have to put up with. How these fans deal with it is their choice, but trying to justify our teams failures by stabbing them in the back wont achieve nothing and they just make themselves look like idiots. We should support them through THICK or THIN, when the times are good or bad.
You fans know who you are, many many REAL supporters are laughing at you!!
ZimPaul
Denilson is the man.. i think Song is starting to look amazing too. That game against Man Utd at Old Trafford in the champs league showed he arrived. Our only player and Almunia to take any credit out that 1-0 loss in the 1st leg.
I hope the rumours about Vieira returning are false. Everyone on here likes to make analogies between football players and mistresses. Well, Vieira is a habitual skirt-lifter who finally went to get her **** filled (thanks, QoS) by a man with a bigger wallet. Now that she has lost her looks, and the sugar-daddies have found younger ***** to fill, she wants us to take her back. Some men would fly across a continent to take such an opportunity; but I think we should have some self-respect, and say no.
Happychap – great post dude. Holding role rarely gets the credit it deserves, but madrid sin makalele didn’t win a thing but chelsea with him did. Denilson might not be at that level yet, but he gets overlooked too. It took gilberto not playing for anyone to give him any credit.
As for sideways and backwards passing, that will be what the holding player does most anyway. They take the ball from defence, work it around the CB’s, and let the more creative players open sides up. None of Vieira, gilberto, flamini, parlour were great passers spraying the ball around, but they link play, often side to side, and are most important when they can get the ball from defence to the attackers then offer an outlet from deep when needed.
If Fabregas and Song/New DM are fit will Denilson get into the starting eleven? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
JS
Go to the Newsnow and Goonernews sites – they have the full instructions there.
YW
an article where someone who wrote it ACTUALLY knows what they are on about
thank you
too many arsenal fans are idiots who dont understand football
just the basics such as if we score more we win
dicks
what fans boo their own players who are in possession of the ball
only RETARDS
booing someone of the age of 21 because he doesnt have Henry-like accuracy
FOOLS
booing a player who comes back from injury OFF THE BENCH and makes a few miss placed passes
yes these are the fans that support our team a bunch of fickle, no brain idiots
who cannot see any good contribution to the team beside 1000 goals per season
“Half of stats are bullshit though aint they”
Eloquent and useful as ever – that would be half less than your posts dude.
yogi i have been there but i can’t seem to find anything there!!
arsenehollis, Are stats recorded by a human sitting there with a pen and paper? If so then half of stats are bullshit
martin, the bastards
Chrisgoona to see whats in front of you and give your viee on the good and bad of our team doesn’t make you any less of a fan you prick. I pay the club over a thousand pound every year to go and watch them and cheer them on… do you? When your kid is being a little shit do you refuse to acknoledge it and say they are an angel because they are your child? of course you don’t… don’t be so fucking fickel!
You say people undermine our players for an excuse that we haven’t won anything? do you not think it might be because our players aren’t good enough that we haven’t won anything? or do you think it is just shear bad luck? you really are out of touch with reality.
You keep refusing to be negative about the club when our team is CLEARLY getting worse every year… the rest of us who pay and help to pay the players wages will continue to be realistic. In reality this team we have now will do no better than last year and since when did Arsenals ambition stop at finishing 4th. You supporters who refuse to critisize and blindly smile and accept everything good or bad that happen at our club are part of the reason our team is gradually getting worse every year
chrisgoona
i understand your defence of denilson and hope he improves faults with his game next season.
saying alonso is over rated is stupid he is a great player, are you the same sort of fan that thinks ronaldo is overated?
wenger liked him
real madrid want him
liverpool want to keep him
for defence of our own team players there is no point pretending others are overated
@arsenal4us: http://www.newsnow.co.uk/publishers/site-submission-intro.html
there must be something on goonernews as well. explore the contact us or faq sections
Ask Fabregas the one player he’d like to play with – He’d say Alonso
Denilson doesn’t even make the Brazil Under21 team because Andreson is rated ahead of him… who incidentally rarely make the Man Utd team whos fans pay less to watch their team!
You are all trying to say Denilson is a great player but he clearly isn’t and blind faith doesn’t make you a better supporter… just makes you an ignorant sheep
RIP Sir Bobby.
goonerjay you realise that you just had a go at someone for being too much of an Arsenal fan?
I can understand that you might share the same view as they over Denilson…
But, why on earth is supporting Arsenal players a crime in your mind? Why would you spend time trying to convince an Arsenal fan that their players are not good enough?
“Are stats recorded by a human sitting there with a pen and paper? If so then half of stats are bullshit”
Unlike your made up figure of a half, whilst there may be some margin of error in data collection, statistics are pretty accurate. Imagine the top goal scorer chart james then apply the same principle elsewhere.
“Ask Fabregas the one player he’d like to play with – He’d say Alonso”
Do you have a link for that, or is another made up point? Wasn’t Cesc trumpeting David Villa’s talents recently?
That the Bordeaux chairman said wenger called would suggest that we are looking for a striker. The papers dont have any quotes, but it seems to be a given that we are getting a new midfielder.
(Like the fact that the independent is running with the de rossi rumour that looked pretty thin on the net a few days ago – lazy hacks. Would be beautiful though if villa and de rossi did come. Gazzidis would be god.)
This Denilson debate is dead. It’s long been conclusively proven that he made a fantastic contribution last season.
It’s getting boring. He’s a fantastic player, and was my own player of the season last year because he never had 2 consecutive bad games, the only player in the team I can say that about.
Where was Denilson in the Brazil squad at the Confederation cup in South Africa? Nowhere.If he is not even in the squad in front of Gilberto what does that say about his chances of playing in next years world cup.Wenger realised that as well when he dropped Denilson for the biggest games of last season.CL v Utd.
The same people who are bigging Denilson up forget all these things.Very convinient
And Silvestre is crap
Matin – why are you trying to convince Arsenal fans that their player is not good enough?
What gratification does this give you?
Yes. Very boring.
Denilson will get there but IMO he is not good enough yet to sustian a position in a 4-4-2 better suited to a 3 man midfield.
Not many will disagree that silvestre is poo although he has looke ok in pre-season, i hope he continues to looked assure in the proper season.
Martin = troll.
Ole – well said mate.
‘Not many will disagree that silvestre is poo’
Funny
goonerjay isn’t a supporter thats why,
To say im out of touch with reality is amusing. When you step back into reality and realise how far Arsenal have come, moving stadium, going through a financial crisis, and having the most talented crop of young promising players in Europe still while not relying on buying big names… I think when you and all the other dissapointed supporters step back into reality from your computer game thinking and get behind your team like your supposed to we will be alot better off.
To say the team is getting crapper is a very shameful comment from a so called supporter if you are one. I thought we almost won the league the season before last, champs league 3 years ago in the final, carling cup final, semis again in champs league and fa cup.
Just imagine if that 15% or so support of our club was actually with the team and not still sulking and dwelling on past achievements.. very very dissapointing
If we had a CM of fabregas and xabi alonso, without a strong DM behind them we’d get ripped apart worse than last season. Xabi is someone who could play instead of fabregas, not with him in a 2. Frankly fabregas is better as well. Xabi has excellent passing range, but hes basically Fabregas without the moments of genius, or carrick without the physical frame.
Bit harsh perhaps. Hes a good player but not what we need. Just because fabregas likes him doesnt mean he would solve our problems.
What are the doomers trying to achieve exactly…
At the moment their negative attitudes are stuttering our capacity to perform to the levels we all know they can. The so called Arsenal fans who are trying to turn other fans against our own players have other agendas or are just so stupid they cant see what they are doing to the team.
Confidence is the key, we must give our team as much as possible if they are to succeed. Also, if the players see that the fans aren’t 100% with them, why should they in turn fight for our cause. Its a 2 way relationship like anything in life. We show them support = they will show us results.
Davi
Well said.. like i said before he is overated and doesn’t really offer a team much. Id take Denilson’s interceptions, passing, and workrate or Cesc’s creativity and presence anyday.
Alonso pisses on Denilson, only IMO
Dont care about alonso just how we will turn promise of these youngsters into a EPL winning team.
I really think it is to play a 4-3-3
RVP Bentdner Arshavin
——– Cesc
—– Song Denilson
Clichy Gallas Vermealen Sagna
———Almunia
Subs
Theo
Rosicky
Diaby
Eboue (please stay)
Wilshire
Nasri
Eduardo
Wilshire
Djorou
Well said chris and davi
Anyone that tries to justify slagging off of our team, club, manager or players = TROLL
A supporter does not behave in that manner, if those are unsure of how to support try looking it up in the dictionary
HALF OF STATS ARE BULLSHIT
Of course they are. More than half are bullshit, just as more than half of what people say and write is bullshit. Nobody will claim that everything that is said or written should for that reason be ignored, and nor can all statistics be ignored. Instead, it is necessary to discriminate between the true and the false.
Statistics can be criticised on two grounds. It might be claimed either that the statistics are inaccurate, or that they don’t provide sufficient evidence for the conclusions that are drawn from them. I have yet to see anyone doubt the accuracy of the football statistics. In Denilson’s case, the sceptics suggest that his astonishing statistics cannot prove his quality, since they omit key factors. Very well. The challenge for the sceptics is to specify which factors are omitted, and to show that those factors are not implicit in the numbers, and that they are necessary to a player in Denilson’s position.
One suggestion is that Denilson’s brilliant passing accuracy is irrelevant because his passes are mainly backwards or sideways. In fact, data about direction of passes is collected, and shows this claim to be false.
Another suggestion is that opposition players are easily able to go past Denilson. I have never seen statistics about this, but the sceptics would have to show how this can be compatible with Denilson making among the most tackles in the league. Since Denilson’s success-rate at tackling is also excellent, the only possibility is that players run past Denilson without him even attempting a tackle. Since he makes so many tackles, this can only be if opponents try to go past him far more than any other player in the league. Bearing in mind the possession that Arsenal usually enjoy, the only possible conclusions are that either opponents deliberately seek out Denilson in the hope of going past him (on the off chance that he won’t attempt a tackle), or that Denilson’s reading of the game is so brilliant that he is always in the vicinity of the player with the ball.
The final claim I shall mention is his supposed lack of pace. Let’s suppose it is true. Still, pace is not good in itself in football, but only good insofar as it helps to achieve something that is good in itself. Denilson’s main task is to win the ball, and he has enough pace to win the ball far more often than any other player in the league. Incidentally, Fabregas is slower than Denilson, but is probably the best midfielder in the league. Alonso is reputed to be a good midfielder, yet is probably the slowest player in the league, apparently unable to run at all. Juventus judged him to be too slow to succeed in Italy.
Poliziano, So what are you saying?
he’s saying f*ck off james.
Silver gunner – yes I hope that is how we play next season. If we play this formation we dont really *need any new signings, except I still would feel more comfortable with more height at the back. Vermaelen-Gallas is probably how we will start but that looks a bit weak physically to me. Im worried wenger has gone and bought another talented sweeper when we really need a campbell-type stopper.
One thing btw, dont forget carlos vela! He could be vital next year as the season rolls on.
I would have added ‘you twat/idiot’ somewher eon the end of that notlager
Makelele & Mascherano are slower than Denilson.
The one I’ll never get is the Mascherano part. He’s actually smaller than Denilson. He can’t pass. Has no pace. Yet he’s rated for the intelligence of his play…knowing where to be. Which just turns out to be Denilson’s strong point too.
So going by statistics, Cattermole would do just as good a job as Denilson.
Notlager, thanks for clearing that up big nose
Poliziano, sorry. Good post.
Truly Arsenal
you must be silly Denilson WAS playing week -in – week out. No one played more games for Arsenal last season. Denilson IS Arsenal’s most consistent player.
Arsenal Kabisa
Your angle on RVP being named player of the year is interesting. I can’t agree more!
is Matin Martin?
Coz Matin is full of Crap but Martin aynt…?
Matin = Obafemi Martins.
Matin. I will make a bet with you. If Dennilson doesn’t make Brazil’s world world cup squad, i will come here and say I am Doris. Deal? You will do the same.
Denilson has captained Brazil in all levels till the under 20 side. he will be captain of brazil one day.
viva Denílson Pereira Neves
which statistics, james?
notlager aka big nose, if you check the stats everyones on about I bet Cattermole is not far off Denilson. I remember reading it somewhere a few months ago,
Denilson has played for and captained Brazil at every level since he was a member of the under-15 squad.
In November 2006, Denílson was called up to the Brazilian national side for a friendly match against Switzerland to replace his Arsenal team mate Gilberto Silva who pulled out for personal reasons.
However, he did not make his debut, as he was an unused substitute in the match.
so come on, give us some numbers.
QOS… my comment was aimed at Chrisgoona who dared to call me less of an Arsenal supporter because i dare to critisize players i don’t deem good enough to be a 1st team regular at our great club. I wasn’t arguing that he was too much of an Arsenal fan… just that blindly refusing to critize what is wrong at the club doesn’t make you more of fan than someone who does… i pay £1000 a year to watch this team… does he? doubt it but he is more of an Arsenal fan because he doesn’t critisize the players that don’t quite cut the mustard? that’s the problem with todays average Arsenal fan… they are armchair fans who think anyone who dares to critisize Wenger or a player isn’t a fan
Ole Mascherano slower than denilson are trippin tha guy is rapid and would walk into most teams out there…
Silver gunner
No sign of PV4 in your line up.Are we just going to sign him as a cheerleader???????
notlager aka big nose,
Denilson
Passes sideways – 1’000’000
Passes backwards – 1’000’000
Passes forwards – 3
Catternole
Passes sideways – 1’000’001
Passes backwards – 1’000’002
Passes forwards – 8
You see, according to my statistics, Cattermole is more usefull going forward
notlager,
I think you gave an excellent summary of my analysis.
Denilson v Catermole
Goals 3 1
Saves 0 0
Penalty saves 0 0
Goal assist 7 2
Clean sheet 14 10
Red card 0 2
Yellow card 3 10
Fouls Conceded 66 65
Fouls won 78 29
Tackles lost 28 36
Tackles won 103 131
Shot on target 13 6
Total shot 29 26
Appearances 37 33
Att. created 35 23
Total Passes 2535 1092
Acc. Passes 2204 862
Minutes played 3149 2823
Wengerball, ok denilsons better then Cattermole, and I should hope so too
Matin he is not signed yet if he were signed then would replace either song or denilson.
BTW R.I.P Sir Bobby a true gent
Denilson-Catermole
Passes Total 2535 – 1092
Back/side 715 – 338
back/side% 28.2-30.9
Poliziano. Good post.
Some other clarifications you can clarify for the Anti-Denilson-spurs fans
Denilson has no brazilian flair.
Denilson passes side ways.
Denilson is a crab (my favourite)
Denilson is a poor mans Cesc.
Denilson does not track runners.
Denilson is not strong enough, he looses in challenges easily.
Wengerball, How about Rambo vs Die Hards John Mclean?
My moneys on Rambo if the fight took place in the jungle, if it took place on a sky scraper I’d go Mclean
Wengerball, Is denilson the best DM in the premiership according to the stats? who’s the top five? If you cant be arsed to find out then dont worry
James
If you are going to go by stats, assists and actual facts mate Denilson SHITS on Alonso. It depends though, some supporters take great satisfaction by stating another player outside the club over their own
Have read all the boring comments – Denilson is still shit ( Song is as well). Until these two players are replaced we will win nothing!! They are average now and will never be more than average in the future. If Wenger does not spend we are in for another mediocre season and will struggle to retain 4th spot. Arshevin and Fabregas – the only top players in the squad – will then leave and the fans will be crying for Wenger to be replaced!
wengerball.
Purrfect.
Now they will say they know what their eyes sees…
ChrisGoona, personally I trust my own eyes. We had teams dominate the midfield over us last year like I havent seen in a long time. Denilson has no presence, can I stress that this is only IMO, dont go getting upset and start swearing at me
gunner90
are you sure that you support arsenal??
you say they’re shit! can you tell us the reason why you think like that?
enlighten us!! (please don’t tell us ‘i trust my eyes’ bullshit unless you are super hero so your eyes can gauge someone’s ability just by looking that them)
Arshevin and Fabregas – the only top players in the squad
This Actualy made me laugh!
What about RVP, Sagna, Gallas, Clichy, Rosiscky, Edwardo?
Might you be talking about the Arsenal in Argentina?
I’m a big fan of Denilson; I’ve said all I wanted to in this article.
http://arsenalcolumn.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/denilson-has-risen-from-the-shadows-to-take-centre-stage/
Wenger has seemingly pushed the guy a bit further and is playing Song deeper so far in pre-season (which makes it understandable why we were in for Melo).
I’d like Diaby to step up. If he remained disciplined in front of defence, he has good power and positional awareness is decent. The biggest criticism is his reluctance to release the ball quicker however that can be eradicated. He has one of the best short passes in the team and can get out of situations well. It’s all a matter of decision making and understanding.
I’m glad Wenger doesn’t trust your eyes james.
@james.
Remember last year for large chunks of the season we did not have Cesc, Walcot, Rosiscky, Arshavin.
Those are some of the best ball possessors i know.
Even Barca without xavi and iniesta looks light weight. Coz those two boys can hog the ball.
Please judge Denilson after this season. and lament that he has no loyalty as Barca try to tap him up.
gunner90 you are misguided denilson is not the finished article nor is Song but to say that they will never amount to more than average in the future is wrong cause you are not a soothsayer and both showed signs of becoming good players sporadicaly last term.
The nail in the coffin for me that suggests that you are indeed misguided is you say that the only top players in the squad are cesc and arshavin WTF??? RVP is not a top player??? Nasri is not a top player??? Gallas is not a top player (i know he is annoying)????
Dude please….
notlager, Always has to be personal doesn’t it big nose
The Brain
“The biggest criticism is his reluctance to release the ball quicker however that can be eradicated.” But when will he learn about this? It’s been 3(?) years now and he’s still frustrating.
He’s got everthing to be a top CM, I hope he will learn quickly when he needs.
Here’s one for Denilson day.. A few of the many delightful moments of skill from this season and before:
Obviously you cant take stats at face value, for example the reality is that when you play on the wing by nature you will make more passes backwards than forwards simply because that’s where the passing options are.
If you look the”poor” games Denilson had was when he played on the wing, in those games he hardly got involved and much more of his passes were backwards.
There are always abnormalities like Arshavin’s 4 goals against Liverpool, but over the course of a season you can tell the difference between a consistently good player or a player having a purple patch.
@james
it would also help if you got out of you tube and watch whole matches. (or maybe you are a season holder ticket and have been one for the last 200 years?)
highlights are just that. highlights
wengerball, so who are the other top cm’s according to the stats? If you cant be bothered to find out dont worry
arsenalkabisa, seven years actually
The biggest criticism is his reluctance to release the ball quicker however that can be eradicated.” But when will he learn about this?
It’s been 3(?) years now and he’s still frustrating.
——————
That just shows ignorance, the guy played a total of 21 games before last season.
8 games in 2007/2008 6 from the bench
13 games in 2006/2007 11 as a sub
James,
My book of statistics tells me that you have watched The Karate Kid Series – 100 times, the Rambo series – 50 times, Die Hard series – 20 times and Universal Soldier – 38 times.
Watching so many action movies may affect the performance of your eyes in real life.
@wengerball
I think Almunia has the fewest passes backwards???
@James
I piss on you then.
Coz Emirates is a library, and the supporters think that their players are crap!!!!
There is no one statistically close to Denilson overall.
There may be players with better stats in individual categories but they’d be at the bottom in others, Denilson is near the top on most categories.
arsenalkabisa,
Huerelho Gomes is the only player who has a higher number of back passes than John Terry.
Vieira could do a job the like of which Giggs and Scholes do at OT.Giggs is 5 years older than Vieira and Scholes legs have gone but they both played a part in United winning the league in fact surprisingly Giggs won Footballer of the year.
What these experienced players do have a brain,Something the likes of Diaby definately lacks
Alex, You’re stats are extremely accurate, exept you missed out Termiator 1 & 2 – 3023 times.
Arnie – “Sarah Conner?”
Sarah Conner – “Yes”
BANG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
goonerjay it just doesn’t make any sense to me.
I can understand that someone can wind you up and you react – that bit I get.
What i don’t get, is the level of critisism. As an Arsenal fan you might have players you like and dislike…some fans may take exception to you disliking players on the grounds that its not very “supportive”. So far I can understand that view, its probably not overally conducive to debate but as a default position for an Arsenal fan to have – “All Arsenal players are great” cannot be the worst view to take.
If there is a player you don’t rate, then most people may argue why they think you’re wrong and again I think we can both understand that.
But when the “debate” takes the turn “you’re a sh1t fan for not joining me in my venom against a certain player or the manager – that seems bizarre.
wengerball
8 games in 2007/2008 6 from the bench
13 games in 2006/2007 11 as a sub
where did you get that stats?
2005-2006 9+3 1
2006-2007 9+3 1
2007-2008 9+6 1
2008-2009 16+8 3
Totals 43+20 6
premiere league stats from Arsenal.com
I hope that diaby improves defensive side of his game. He can be a phenomenal player
Arsenalkabisa
The Emirates is a library because the real fans have been priced out. £1000 plus for a season ticket!!!
The stadium is now full of daytrippers and the prawn sandwich brigade.Who spend more time going for food during the game and leaving early Sad very sad
Len, too true, you have to pay it all up front as well, football in general just tears the arse out of it
DEFINITION OF: support (ENCOURAGE)
…to agree with and give encouragement to someone or something because you want them to succeed
I just saw on Telegraph website “Gael Clichy set to miss start of the season due to back injury”
I would question anything the Telegraph publish.
They were the ones who broke the “Eduardo suffers an injury setback” story and 2 days ago claimed that “Eduardo has been named in a Croatia squad for the first time since his horror injury 18 months ago.”
Both incorrect, Eduardo actually scored for Croatia against Andorra in April.
Nasri @ 12:37 pm
Diaby would be amazing if he could just take a closer look at the way denilson plays!!!! Denilson keeps it play easy.
Denilson greatest weakness i feel is diaby greatest strength i.e dribbling. Diaby already good ball skills for someone so tall but tends to hold onto the ball too long and then looses it, he could also improve his tackling technique.
@ Nasri sorry the substitute appearance should be added not included.
Still it was in response to “It’s been 3(?) years now and he’s still frustrating.” the guy only really played last season.
wengerball,
The Daily Telegraph and The Daily Mail are widely regarded as the publications closest to R & W holdings.
Did you check out Tony Cascarino’s article in the Times today? Appalling piece of journalism.
Excellent 11.40 Pz.
Denny is very talented. He did very well last season given that he’s been given zero time to adapt to a defensive role.
But we wouldn’t be in the market, as we clearly seem to be, for a DCM if Arsene thought both Denny and Songs presence alone were enough.
They’re obviously not.!
I agree with Bob, at 12:53. But I am worried for Pz. He’s started responding to doomers, with long footballing posts. Probably the longest post he’s written so far.
wengerball
I got what you mean.
By the way I’m a fan of your blog.
the improvement denilson made last year was remarkable. keep going!!
this is a really big season for Diaby. I really hope he makes at arsenal. this guy is too talented to get kicked out.
Anyone know anything on Rosicky, hes been absent in the last 3 games??
Im sure Diaby will prove he was worth the wait, we have seen what he can do. I just hope we keep enough wide players fit, play our 4-3-3, and keep Diaby more central.
Len
“Giggs is 5 years older than Vieira and Scholes legs have gone but they both played a part in United winning the league in fact surprisingly Giggs won Footballer of the year.”
I couldn’t stop laughing either.
Chris,
Rosicky will be back by the Emirates cup.
Yes, I noticed that Ateeb.
Pz has been widening his repertoire recently.
Renaissance man, you know.
chrisgoona, He got lost in Barnet
Thanks Ateeb
With Nasri injured, looks like AA will keep hold of a wide spot, Walcott to come back also on the right flank.
I think Bendtner is going to have a very productive year with Cesc, AA, RvP supplying him as the main striker. Eduardo i think we will use him sparingly at the start, build his match confidence up
- – - – - – - – Almunia – - – - – - – - -
Sagna – Gallas – Verm – Clichy/Gibbs
– - – Cesc – Song – Diaby/Den – - –
Walcott – - – RvP/Bendtner – - Arshavin
I think Song will be an everpresent in a 4-3-3 as the more central one. Cesc, Nasri, Diaby, Denilson, Ramsey can all pick up the pieces around him. Im still not convinced Wenger has finished his transfer business, i can certainly see room for a CM.
The wings – Walcott & AA look likely to start the season with Nasri out. Rosicky could be on the bench for start of the season. Vela is another option. With Eboue going out i think we look a bit light. Bendtner playing in a wider role in friendlies shows.
Joe,
The only thing Denilson & Song don’t have is experience.
I have never read an article by cascarino or heard his views as a pundit without thinking the man is a complete idiot.
Mr ‘I’ll- happily-repeat-the-given-media-view-at-any-one-time-as an-honest-ex-pro-with-no-insight-of-my-own-can-I-have-the-money-now?’
It is a sign of the already appalling sports jounalism in this country that such a man writes for The Times.
De Rossi is not worth £30M. He’d probably go for £10M less. He’s not playing the Champions League (he’s already cup-tied) and Roma need the money.
Ole, dont we all
Ole
De Rossi has got to be up there with the top worst stories of the summer so far.
CG,
Yes, I know it probably won’t happen. The one player though, who’s been “linked” (most meaningless and ridiculous word in football) with us, who would actually bring something to the squad beyond what we have already.
Ole,
Agreed.
Some people can’t stop regurgitating the rubbish they read on s**t blogs like Arsenal Action. What is this nonsense that Denilson is not strong? Strong enough to break opposition players’ legs? Gimme a break – it is football we are talking about not rugby people!!
I hope that this season sees wenger make more use of the squad for tactical rotation.
When we play at home against sides from the bottom half of the table why not play a more attacking side?
We could have traore and eboue at fullbacks and 2 attacking players in the midfield 3, say cesc and rosicky either side of cesc.
This is something barca did well last year, for example using silvinho for home games but abidal away.
Ole
For 30m, a player that plays in an inferior league, that could take time to settle where we could be using the likes of Ramsey, Den, Diaby who need minutes to excel and we know what they are about… i think its a pointless way to spend 30m
Someone like Vieira, or an older head to come in, help when needed, not necessarily demand to play every game would be a welcomed signing. A bit like Silvestre, i know he aint great, but hes an experienced player who is there to help when needed.
Some people seem to get Rugby & Football confused Ug!
A Welsh friend at work who loves his Rugby told me an old saying that I hadn’t heard, probably from the 1890′s or something.
“Football is a game for gentlemen watched by hooligans.
Rugby is a game for hooligans watched by gentlemen.”
arsenehollis
Eboue waved goodbye to the Arsenal fans at the last friendly
Do you all think we will primarily play a 4-1-2-3 this season with Song (or A N Other) playing just in front of the back 4? Not sure if this has been addressed earlier in comments but it seems that might be AW’s preferred formation.
Finsburyparker
Thats funny, i have a rugby mate at work and he comes out with the same crap!! lol
That saying is very true though, football is by far a less physical game, more technical than anything. To be a professional footballer you must have very close control, able to pass, header, and use your mind body and feet together, and also possess tactical awareness. I aint trying to diss rugby, but to become a rugby player you can just possess sheer power.
Chris – we’ll see if eboue goes, until he does it is all paper talk as far as i am concerned.
Maybe the club will pull a little surprise for the Emirates cup and unveil a new player????
In pre-season I believe I’ve seen 3 different formations used. The Brain might weigh in here…
I’ve seen a 4-4-2 with the second striker hanging out wide on the left or right.
I’ve seen a 4-3-3.
I’ve seen 4-2-3-1.
When asked whether the 3 man midfield based on a 4-3-3 will be the norm in the new season he said something to the effect of “yes, in some games”.
Lichie
I believe it will look something like this…
- – – – – – – – Almunia – – – – – – – – -
Sagna – Gallas – Verm/Djourou – Clichy/Gibbs
- – – Cesc/Den – Song – Diaby/Nari – –
Walcott/Rosicky – - – - – - Arshavin/Vela
– — – - -RvP/Bendtner/Eduardo – - – - -
arsenehollis
I wouldnt class him waving goodbye and throwing his shirt into the stands as paper talk. Why would you do that at a friendly, find the highlights, its there for all to see mate.
arsenehollis mate are you serious cesc and rosicky either side of cesc!!!! but i agree we definelty need to adapt to the changing times with a 4-3-3 although i would prefer to play denilson and song in more difficult games and drop either of them for a more offensive creative player like rosicky in home games.
ChrisGoona @ 2:26 pm
I agree, and think it is a good formation, Song can provide a bit more protection for the back 4 and allow Cesc/Den and Diaby/Nasri to push forward a bit more. I really hope Traore stays (although I suspect he goes out on loan again, sadly), great crosser of the ball, although gets caught out a bit sometimes with positioning as a left back. But think he could do a job on LHS of midfield in a 4-4-2 if the boss chooses that formation.
Can’t wait for the Emirates Cup this weekend.
I want Eboue to stay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CG, totally agree. As the game becomes faster and more athletic, and the different styles around the world become more similar at the professional level, some seem to misinterpret the game changing as being anti-English, which is just dumb. If they want to see violence they should watch Rugby, punching people is an accepted part of the game! No offence meant to Rugby fans.
Ole
Im pretty excited seeing how we play in this formation, players like Diaby, Song, Nasri are yet to show what they can do fully as they have been held back up till now. I think its down to injuries and playing in various positions which have stuttered their performances. Hopefully a 4-4-3 type will sort of accomadate everyone to getting the best out of the team. The 4-4-2 wasn’t used alot last season for what ever reason… doomers say its because Wenger don’t trust Denilson, Song and Diaby in a midfield 2. I don’t buy it, i think its more down to the other teams packing their midfields. Even the invincibles suffered many draws to teams like this. We were use to having 2 wide creative players cutting in, plus a strike pair in front of them. Now it is very rare to see a team with more than 1 striker.
oh and by the way no way AW will spend 30m on de rossi NO WAY.
I think Eboue decided to leave a while ago, i think we definatley need someone to come in as cover for RB now.
Silver – thats obviously a typo, it should say cesc and rosicky either side of song/denilson for home games.
Chris – i saw it live dude, maybe it was goodbye, maybe he thought that might be the last chance, maybe the deal wont go through, maybe he just wanted to give the traveling support a gift?
I don’t see the sense in selling Eboue unless wenger has specifically found a replacement who he thinks is better and wants instead. He is our only back-up right back, only attacking option from this position, and it will leave a hole in the squad if he goes. Unlike ade or toure there is no replacement within to cover for that loss.
Is there anyone in the youth team that could step up as cover in the right back position (as Gibbs did?)
Hoyte could but i dont think he would have the same impact a gibbs did.
@arsenehollis
say cesc and rosicky either side of cesc.
I though double entry was not allowed in football???
Anyway, i like your thoughts. For teams that park the bus we have as many Attcking palyers – even though not naively so, and for the gritty games, a little more muscle.
I think Wenger did the same last season, bringing in Song & Diaby in games he felt we needed more muscle
Who played right back in the FA Youth Cup team?
arsenehollis
Its not just RB, he has covered LB, CM, DM, LM, RM… he is a very valuable asset to our squad. I always likes seeing him come on, he always offered something different and frightened defences. His only problem was his diving and play acting, he solved it after the incident. But even before that i thought he was playing well in midfield at the start of the season. It will be sad IF he goes, i have a gut feeling that the deal is already in motion
From what you wrote this cat is pretty good. So what’s the problem. You worse than me. I am the same way with my team Flamengo. Good work.
http://bobbygee.wordpress.com/
You can big Denilson up and claim his statistics show him to be the best but on the field of play, no.
He can never get into the team of Manu, Pool and Chavski.
The guy is not good enough to get near the Brazilian Olympic team. While Anderson and Lucas played, he was holing up in London.
Denilson is a glorified DM and is getting chances because AW don’t want to spend and buy quality.
In a year’s time his skills will fall short to that of Ramsey, Coquelin, Frimpong, Wilshere and JET.
He’ll be gone in two years because he’s not up to the skills needed to play at Arsenal. A replacement for Fabregas? Ramsey, Wilshereand Merida are better skilled for Cesc position.
He’s too slow and weak.
Has poor skills for an Arsenal CM.
Bad passer of the ball.
Its unfortunate that you people are raising a player above his own proven capabilities. He’s decent but not great and I expect any new DM to replace without much effort.
I loved it at half time when Eboue would drive out onto the pitch in his multi-coloured car and it would go ‘bang!’ and all the bits would fall off it.
Or remember that time he pretended to give Cesc a flower but when cesc went to take it Eboue squirted him with water, ha ha ha, oh how we laughed
Lichie,
Hoyte got his chance last season, even before Gibbs, but unfortunately he didn’t really take it. Remember the 3-0 loss to Citeh? He was poor in that game.
In the youth cup I think it was Eastmond who played at right back. I don’t think he is ready for the first team yet….
arsenalkabisa
Its why i think Diaby in a 4-3-3 will excel this season
Fuck off Truly AFC
Well arseneholis, none of our 2 sales so far this season made any sense to me. Ade’s made some financial sense. Kolo’s, not. So Eboue would just be another one.
Eboue please stay…….
Ole – I remember Hoyte at Citeh, he wasn’t great, I agree. If Eboue goes, I just hope Sagna is the bionic man because not much cover unless we bring someone else in. I’m not sure I’d like to see Djourou as cover at right back too often. Galling to see L Diarra at Madrid, he was useful as holding defensive midfielder and cover at right back.
Eboue should have played more games at right back especially against over defensive teams AW needs to do this more in order to pick up wins in games we historically tend to draw.
Diarra was so impatient it defied belief.
Ole – looks like Toure move was on the cards since Jan, vermaalen was bought in to replace – straight swap.
The stats on skysports looked pretty telling, he was 27th in the PL for tackle success last year and won only 44% of his headers – the latter is pretty damning no?
Personally i can see why arsene let them take the shitty cash.
Shipping off Eboue looks to leave us short. That said, if we go out and buy a better defensive replacement i would understand, providing a replacement. Eboue was at fault for the first goal in the fa cup semi, maybe that is part of the problem – he can be a defensive liability if forced to play a run of games?
It looks certain now that we will spend some money, cant wait to see what Wenger does – maybe we will get a ‘special’ talent this time. One big buy (de rossi?) could be all we need.
German van Spey…bullseye!
@Silver Gunner on July 31, 2009
at 3:16 pm
Agreed, Diarra left because he was too impatient. It’s a shame, because he could’ve done a great job for us, but he’s gone now so we just need to move on I guess.
If IG is now in charge of transfer negotiations Wenger’s reluctance to spend money may not matter. If Wenger has identified a player as someone who will strengthen the club/team and we have a warchest through the combined sales of Toure, Adebayor and possibly Eboue the board will decide whether to spend an amount of money rather than it being solely Wenger.
Now I do not think that the rumour’s about De Rossi are true but if they were what a way for the board to show the fans that Usmanov is talking out of his arse and maybe get some fans back behind the club.
@ arsenehollis on July 31, 2009
at 3:18 pm
At £30 mio, no way we sign de Rossi. Maybe we should (debatable), but we won’t. I don’t eventhink we would sign him for £15 mio. I put a higher chance on signing Vieira than I do signing de Rossi.
Whatever AW decides, I’ll be happy.
It looks like Diarra is about to find himself surplus to requirements at Madrid. What a fool to not have the patience or grit to work for his place.
Lass, as he has laughably named himself, is hugely overrated and a real weak link.
He does not defend well, nowhere near being the new makalele. Doesnt attack well. He occasionally runs around in circles, normally getting himself out of trouble he got himself into, and people think it looks good – just headless chicken nonsense.
Diarra is at madrid by chance, he got picked up only because when ramos was there they got an english infatuation. Flaubert? They were a club without identity at the time, a bit desperate, and making impulsive signings.
Against Liverppol in the CL he was nonexistent, they got murdered and he did NOTHING to stem the tide. Same against Barca in the title decider, even gifting messi a goal directly.
Get over Lass, he is overrated and will soon be back at his level with another Pompey.
As a regular reader I thank for the article, good to hear other reasonable voices.
Haven’t read most of the responses as there is always some without sense.
I think Denilson has an excellent sense of positioning in his defensive play. That’s why he doesn’t have to run around and huff and puff like Flamini, for example. For his age he has performed very well and I still have high hopes for him.
We cant need more than 1 or 2 signings surely?
Having made 40 million in sales, plus cut about 7 million off the yearly wage bill there must be cash to spend.
With all the young talent coming through, maybe the thing to do now is just go and get one top, top player. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised to see us break our own transfer record.
Arsenehollis, comeon now, dont be biiter, Diarra was the nuts
Ole Gunner/ ChrisGooner/Steve/Passenal & Co.
They are the only true Arsenal fans. They want every fan to share their ideas. As soon as you depart, you’re no more an Arsenal fan.
I am ‘Truly AFC’ but will not condone mediocrity. I’ve never accepted 4th position and I don’t believe another 4/5th is the way to go.
We need a DM because what we have are not up to the task of winning a title. A striker to replace Ade because Rosicky, Eduardo, RvP might not be fit to carry us through.
The new striker will also support Nik at the top because at 21 even though better than Ade when he came to Arsenal, the youngman can not carry the team alone.
F*ck off already, James. You really are a sad specimen. Get a life you freaking square.
Marc — I think the other Diarra, Mahamadou Diarra, is on the way out of Madrid, not sure Lass (agree arsenehollis, laughable moniker) is out of the picture for them.
I don’t think he is the second coming of Makelele by any stretch, but his versatility at right back or central midfield is of some value. If AW thought he was a world-beater, he would’ve worked harder to keep him. Amazing that Madrid paid £20 mio for him, but I guess that’s what they do (even under Calderon’s presidency).
Nasir Jones-Terrence-Trent-Derby-Nasri,
Whats the matter? All I said was that Diarra is a top class player, which he is. Stop sucking on lemons Mr Bitter
James = clown
Truly afc = fair-weather fan
“mediocrity” gets used a lot to describe arsenal by the negative elements of their own fans. The last 4 years have seen us make a CL final and semi-final, something the club had never done before. We almost won the league 2 years ago. We are firmly established as one of Europe’s best 8 sides. We play superb football, a joy for the fans.
Mediocrity is what you get watching sp**s. Mediocrity is a farce drummed up by disaffected glory hunters.
I feel sorry for anyone who doesn’t look at this current side and isn’t desperate for the season to start because we are full of talent.
arsenehollis on July 31, 2009
at 3:40 pm
“I feel sorry for anyone who doesn’t look at this current side and isn’t desperate for the season to start because we are full of talent.”
Agree 100%.
arsenehollis – It’s amazing that some so called fans can call Arsenal mediocre. If Arsenal are mediocre what are Everton, Villa, Liverpool and the Spud’s.
Unfortunately Wenger is both a victim of his own success and the “I want it now” generation. All these fans should consider what is would be like to support West Ham, who could still face the prospect of being sold should their Icelandic owners go tits up or the Spud’s, all the promises in the world that are never fulfilled. Christ they can’t even manage planning permission on a new ground let alone build it.
Jut read that Manure’s projected starting midfield this season scored 8 goals last year combined. They have rooney, berbatov, and owen up front, that’s it. Could be a tough year for them.
By contrast, we looked stacked to the rafters with attackers right now.
arsenehollis, I once had the pleasure of working with Eboue at the Cirque du soleil in Paris. The man was a clowning legend, he invented the Electric handshake
arsenehollis – What was the ManU lineup?
Marc – We are the best run club in England, on and off the pitch. There has to come a point when the yanks start pulling money out from utd and liverpool, that’s why they bought in in the first place. Looks like now might be the time. Fergie is sitting on 60 mil of the ronaldo money, where is the clamour for him to spend, cascarino getting emotional in opinion pieces, or talk of impending doom?
What is bizarre, is that we have the best side in the country right now, especially if Alonso goes. We have money to add, no desperate weak areas, and a master manager in the transfer market. Sitting pretty is the phrase i think.
Marc – nani andrson carrick valencia.
I think Owen will be great now he’s back at decent team, His record at real was good
arsenehollis – nani anderson carrick valencia.
Where is the creativity?
And were criticised for our midfield. as back they have Hargreaves (will he ever play again?), Fletcher, Park whatshisname, Scholes and Giggs.
At last – some football to go and watch…..
Not in a million years is he worth £30M, and there is no way AW would pay that – but one thing is for sure, De Rossi is a very, very good player.
I am not overly fussed if we sign anyone else prior to the season starting, but i would be even more confident of a very good season if we did sign De Rossi.
True AFC, the reason you get dismissed out of hand is nonsense such as we’re mediocre. That’s outright nonsense.
Sure we’ve won no trophy in 4 years, but we’ve had 2 finals, a CL semis and should have won the league in 08.
The health of Arsenal as a footballing entity has never been higher.
From U-11s to academy to reserves to ladies to first team we’re in rude health.
You’re talking out of your ass and crapping out of your mouth, mate.
The understanding of positions displayed here is really static.
Players like Cesc depend on players like Denilson to do the dirty work, so that they can shine and do the glamorous bit.
TEAMS need role-players as well as leading-stars. A TEAM requires the unglamorous types like Sangna, Denilson and such who quietly get the job done, with little flair. Commitment to the team means swallowing your ego and desire to shine in order to perform the role that gets the TEAM to the desired goal.
Indeed, the fact that there is such a massive difference of opinion about Denilson, suggests that he is doing his job perectly. Blocking the channels, being the safety outlet for the probing attack, being the swing man when we shift the attack from one side of the pitch to the other is completly unglamorous work and this very young man understands that quiet discipline on his part makes his other more famous teammates more effective in their roles.
arsenehollis – All of the fans calling for unsustainable spending also forget that Platini will bring in a wage cap and maybe other measures to stop teams over spending. Any money we spend is earned and as you say we keep our finances in balance. These new rules will false many clubs to radically change the way they run but will hardly affect us.
arseneholis,
I’ve been making that point for 2 years. In 07/08, Rosicky scored more goals than Man poo’s midfield.
They’re in very real trouble because they don’t have a guaranteed source of goals now. None of their strikers is a big scorer, and none of their midfielders either.
I have a feeling we’ll see a big season from Berbatov. And barring injuries, I back Owen to score more than Tevez. But they could really struggle with goals and a cutting edge.
no doubt we have a fooking strong squad we are only 2 or 3 signings from being genuine title contenders.
I mean personally this season we have a very good chance due to the weakeneing of manure and possible of scousepool, chelsea still as strong as ever though but with the right signings we can win i am sure.
We will have to make better use of the squad we have and the fringe players will have to perform when given their chance, kind of like what gibbs did last year.
Finally do any oy you guys watch the Bundesliga there are some good players that aren’t being linked to any clubs that could suit our team like Serdar Tasci and Graffith and they wouldn’t cost an armand a leg.
True AFC you’re an AWOS – an ABSOLUTE WASTE OF SPACE!
Brain, your article on Denilson shows that he had many, many more tackles and interceptions than Flamini did in 07-08. I think you rightly suggest that the reason for that was that Arsenal was so much better at holding the ball and keeping it in the opposition half of the pitch during 07-08. Which brings me to the following question:
Why play a system with 2 defensive midfielders? Wouldn’t Cesc prefer a second creative midfielder next to him, an Iniesta to his Xavi? Wouldn’t a Rosicky or Nasri in the midfield trio help put the opposition on the back foot. Could it be that we will see a more offensive Denilson when he plays in this role?
An observation: Arsenal always defends best when we attack and put the opposition on the back foot. When Arsene puts a mostly defensive line-up out, as he did against Man U, my stomach sinks.
Eduardo for golden boot this year. If he stays fit, he will score for fun.
Cali
Definately, Denilson became defensive when it became clear how shaky the defense was. Without the need to protect them so much then Denilson cuts forward through defenses like he did in his early days, which opens defenses in front of Cesc. Then Song or a new DCM becomes the shield of a much stronger defense.
This makes him a nice counter point to Rosicky…
Ole Gunner – Rooney might get a few goals assuming that he plays up front rather than on the left wing but that could limit the supply from LW (I really don’t rate Nani). As for Owen his pace has gone, I even saw a Newcastle game where they played him in the hole, he still has good positional sense but should be to easy to man mark by any competent team. As for Berbatov can look brilliant but can just as easily go missing.
ManU will be there for the taking this season. It just depends who manages to take the advantage.
California Gooner — horses for courses, I think.
ChrisGoona/Ole were discussing this earlier.
There will be times when he plays 2 creative midfielders (in a 4-4-2), other times with a defensive midfielder (Song or Denilson) in a slightly withdrawn role protecting the back 4 with Cesc and one of Nasri/Diaby/Rosicky slightly further forward (in a 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-3).
Rooney will defo score more goals cause i dont think he will be asked to the left wing job again with teves and r7 gone, but as for owen scoring more that teves i doubt that very much as that implies he will stay fit very unlikely.
does anyone no the real deal with rosicky is he injured or not?
arsenehollis
You’re also getting me all wrong. Medoicrity? Yes.
If we have players who can’t get into the team of our key competitors and have not won anything almost with same skill-level players then what is it? Now my attempt at rating our players.
Almunia-average
Fabianski/Mannone-not good enough, Szcecny has a very good chance to replace all of them.
Sagna-quality
Eboue-not good enough, have been regressing since 2006/7 season
Gallas/Vaemelaen-Good/quality-TV will be great
Senderos/Djourou-not good enough but worth keeping and might surprise us this season
Sylvestre-poor, should not be here
Clichy-quality
Gibbs-growing in proficiency
Traore-he’s more of an LM than LB and should be kept
Walcott-average and still has a lot to learn
Cesc-quality
Denilson-not good enough
Song-not good enough
Ramsey-still a lot of work remains
Diaby-enigma, talented but has not shown much but should be kept
Nasri-quality
Rosicky-quality but can he be fit?
Eduardo-quality
Rvp-quality
Arshavin-quality
Bendtner-good,growing every season
Vela/Wilshere-big, big potential
Title winning players
Sagna
Clichy
Gallas
Vaemaelen
Cesc
Rosicky
Eduardo
Rvp
Arshavin
Barring GK, its therefore obvious that the weakness is in midfield and forward.
I’ll take only two players to complete a title line up.
Kalou.
Why? His pace and his potential to be polished by Arsene makes the tick. I know he’s not on anyone’s radar but he’s AW’s type of player. Like Henry and Anelka of old. He has pace and the ability to play in all forward positions. Will be a top top player under AW.
Moussa Sissoko.
Anyone? He plays with Toulouse. Another AW’s type player for the DM position. He’s only 22, a box to box CM with energy to burn and a Vieira-type militancy, determination and athleticsm.
Now the title challenging team in a 4-3-3 formation.
Almunia
Sagna/Coquelin DJ/Sendy TV/Gallas Clichy/Gibbs
Cesc/Wilshere Sissoko/Song/Deni Nasri/Diaby
Arshavin/Walcott Kalou/Nik Rosicky/Vela/Traore
First premiership title in four season and CL championship.
Might be good to get the game at old trafford done early. manure usually have a slow start after their asian tours, a good result there could set us flying.
If we can get 10 points from the first 4 league games and get through the euro qualifier that would be a superb start to the season.
Kalou?
Really?
The fact is if Owen was still the same player of 5 years ago he would not of been on the verge of signing for Hull. Even Benitez who spends money round like it’s going out of fashion didn’t take up the offer.
R.I.P Sir Bobby Robson
A true gent.
Kalou is a quality player and seriously under utilised at chelski, but because of this we could get a nice price for him if they were willing to sell.
I am still unsure whether wenger will get a striker,more likely he will get a versatile fulback and defensive mid but the man is impossible to predict in the transfer market.
I disagree about Kalou but Sissoko is a titan.
Ferguson is now opting to use Wayne Rooney as a central striker, rather than playing him out wide, alongside either Michael Owen or Dimitar Berbatov.
Beyond the three main strikers, Ferguson is demanding an increased yield from midfield.
He said: “Usually you look to score about 100 goals in all competitions, so we are aiming for that again. If we are going to win the league again or do well in Europe we certainly need players to step up.
“Going back a few years, we could always guarantee goals from Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs and David Beckham, who always pitched in with about 10 a season.
“Those goals from midfield have dried up a little in recent years, so we have to address that.
“I will be looking to (Ji-Sung) Park, Nani, (Luis Antonio) Valencia – even (Danny) Welbeck and (Federico) Macheda – to contribute 40 goals between them. The defenders will contribute a few from set-pieces too.”
That would mean that fergie expects 20 goals each from berbatov, rooney, and owen and then the 5 players mentioned to get 8 each on average. 2 of those are teenagers with limited experience. An injury to ferdinand or rooney and they might really struggle. Weakest of the top 4 i think.
Whatever your opinion of the guy is, Rooney is a top class player.
I thought over the 2 legs of the Champs League Semi against us he was exceptional.
Truly…maybe you’re overly harsh on some of these…maybe some are average versus the pantheon of Arsenal Legends, but yeeeesh.
I personally was furious when we let Shay Given go by…I really just don’t like Almooonia.
Matt – he will be asked to carry that team. Maybe they will have to shift from a counter attacking style to a more dominate possession game and try and get him creating the openings. I just dont see that they have enough on the wings to hurt teams. People are moaning about our side, but nani and valencia are basically unproven. We have arshavin, rosicky, rvp, walcott and eduardo filling the wide attacking spots for us. I think they would take all those players in a second if they could.
Oh dear
Is Almunia the best keeper in the PL now? Possibly the most consistent season last year of any keeper.
The pressure is on him to deliver, that is for sure.
Possibly…I don’t know why I don’t like him
I think Rooney could become one of the best English strikers in the league in a few years.
Arsenal in for Chamakh http://u.nu/8drp Bordeaux considers bid too low. Bordeaux want deal done quick since Ligue 1 kicks off next week.
Is it fair to say that this is the weakest side fergie has ever had going into a season?
Rooney can’t keep his idiot temper in control well enough to become as good as his potential.
A must is we win againt the physical sides next year like Bolton, Stoke and Blackburn.
A land of the giants team like this would scare even the most of physical teams:-
RVP, Bendtner, Diaby
———-Cesc
——Djourou, Song
Clichy, Gallas, Vermealen, Sagna
SACK WENGER AND THE BOARD
Poliziano – Rooney is already one of the best English strikers in the league. While Rooney is talented the alternatives for best English striker is shockingly bad. Who else is there (I’m not including Theo) Owen – not good enough, Defoe – OK, Crouch – makes Emile Heskey look talented, Heskey – good grief, Kevin “Elbows” Davies – thug who wouldn’t be allowed to set foot on the pitch in other countries. Can’t think of any others.
axis – If Rooney can’t control his temper when his team is winning the league what’s he going to be like if they struggle? Other teams will just look to wind him up even more.
Rooney is the best English Striker in the league already – no doubt about that.
Name one who is better?
He is also one of the best players in the league, english or not.
Almunia is also decent but not great. Sometimes the goals he lets in are really embarrassing.
Bentley’s goal when we played the Spurs was very bad and also Aaron Lennon’s goal in the same game. Then also that 41 yards free kick by Ronaldo he let in the CL game with Manu. I think Ronaldo’s goal killed the team and not Gibbs’ mistake.
His distribution is also poor. The first goal he gifted to Chavski at Stamford Bridge in the league last season through bad distribution was also another low point.
Fans should be watching the development of Szcecny. Szcecny, the new Petr Chech?
.
Arsenal in for Chamakh. Bordeaux considers bid too low. Bordeaux want deal done quick since Ligue 1 kicks off next week. So reports L’equipe
Merci pour tes novelles OG !
Truly AFC, are you a man who rarely gives your opinion ?
http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/20090731_170044_chamakh-une-offre-d-arsenal.html
Yeah, I think Rooney might become a quality striker in a year or two, but he’s not quite there yet.
“Wenger actually phoned me,” Jean-Louis Triaud, the Bordeaux president, said. “He said that he had a list of strikers and that Marouane was on it.”
I still think he’s an Oger/Ork.
So it looks like we’ll be buying a few strikers. I would suggest a list must have at least three items. I could be we’ll buy Chamakh, Villa, and Huntelaar.
Why stop at 3 PZ, why not 4 ?
……..
YW,
I AM NOT SPAM!!!!!!!
Seriously, not cool.
Would your opinion of Rooney be the same if he played for Arsenal PZ?
Pz,
If you read the latest article, it says an offer for the player has been made.
There might be 4, Muppet. I’m just saying a list must have a minimum of three items.
Chamakh will fit in well in a traditional 4-4-2 combination. If we do take the 4-3-3 into the league on an experimental basis, I dont know where Chamakh would fit.
I can understand why Wenger has enquired about Kalou in the past. He is versatile and can play both as a right sided midfielder or striker in a 4-4-2 and could fit in well in a 4-3-3 up front as well. He has been deployed as a winger by Chelsea and has scored an average of 7 goals a season for 3 seasons in that position which is’nt bad. At Feyenoord when he played as a striker his goal scoring record was 1 in 2 games.
Truly AFC – You are truly A Fucking Cunt
So you think we might buy Chamakh, Villa, Huntelaar, and Kalou?
Can’t argue with bringing in another forward, considering the tendency toward injury from RvP, Eduardo, Theo, etc. If Bendtner starts, it’d be valuable to have a tall, strong forward with a hefty workrate to come in and pose a threat later in the match.
Surprised that we are going for chamakh, although tough to doubt wenger when buying in france.
Still, he hasn’t been prolific for them, looks similar to bendtner, and will take games away from Vela you would presume… unless he goes out on loan.
He would at least be cheap, leaving money for a new midfielder. I hope we just go out and get the best available for the position. I still see no reason we couldn’t drop 20/25 mil on a world class centre mid with all the cash that has come in.
Chamakh would be filling the role Bendtner has had with Adebayor starting in the past. Occasional starting spell, but mostly relief in the last 15-20 minutes.
Centre mid would be my top priority, but damnit if the prices are inflated there, too. Hard to see Arsene spending more than 20MM+ on anyone out there at the moment. Players like Ribery or Benzema would be the only folks I could see Arsene making a big 30MM+ splash for.
arsenehollis, you are right, Chamkah does display a lot of attributes that Bendtner has. Good vision, composed on the ball, good in the air and physically imposing. Chamakh is also known to be unselfish in his team play.
Because we have so many support/ 2nd strikers in RvP, Arshavin, Vela and Walcott and only Bendtner/ Eduardo to lead the line, Chamakh may be considered a good addition as a substitute to Bendtner in some games.
Alex
I’m happy you’re with me on Kalou. I don’t think Arsene will buy Chamakh, he’s using Chamakh as a decoy for another player.
I won’t be surprised if he goes in for Kalou. Why? He’s Arsene-type striker signing, pacy, full of potential, can play any position in front and unhappy with his role at Chavski. Henry, Adebayor anyone? Arsene can develop Kalou to take the EPL by storm the same way Henry and then Ade. Chavski don’t know how to develop the boy but I think Arsene can do it.
He wanted to bring him here last season to replace Ade but when Scolaris refused he kept Ade. I can see Kalou coming to the Emirates this season.
I find the Chamakh transfer rumors a bit mystifying. Wenger often says he will only buy if he finds a player who is top class, who is better than what he already has. Is this guy better than what we already have?
To me the De Rossi rumor makes sense — not at 30 mil, of course, but at some price — because he really is a top class player and the kind of combative presence we want next to Cesc. And while we are in Rome we could check out Mexes and Vucinic as well…
arsenehollis
At this stage Chamakh is better than Ade at Monaco. Ade only became prolific in his 3rd season here.
Ade’s goal stats in all competitions are as follows:
First season-six months 8
Second full season 12
Third season 30
Fourth season 16
So Ade was not prolific when he came. In fact at this level Nik is more prolific.
First season from the bench 8
Second season partially from the bench 15
Wenger has been fortunate to make a lot of money in the transfer market recently. Spent at the right time, this money could be invaluable. I doubt he is suddenly going to start squandering it.
What do you know about Chamakh, California Gooner.
I don’t know much about him. But everyone I’ve asked who does says he was decisive last season in Bordeaux winning the title.
Apparently he’d been poorly served until last season when he had Gourcuff behind him to supply passes.
I’m indifferent on getting a striker or not. I think it’s not what will determine where we finish the season. But apparently he’s probably the best player at the French champions and an international. Also I hear he’s very good in the air and scored 9 headed goals last season.
If you’ve seen him play I’d really welcome your take on him. I’ll welcome anyone’s take who’s seen him play many times.
Cali,
Chamakh would be better than what he has as backup to Bendtner. Which is no one, really. We’ve got other forwards, but they’re injury prone and not in the physical mold of Bendtner. I think little is to be gained by trying to read into what Arsene Wenger says to the press. He toys with the press on a daily basis and really nothing is to be gleaned.
Of the numerous transfers that have been the subject of rumours in the past month or so, the three that seemed most likely to me were Chamakh, Matuidi, and Bassong. Only a few days ago, it looked like Chamakh and Bassong were going elsewhere, and Matuidi had been forgotten. Now, Chamakh and Matuidi are being discussed again. Bassong, however, appears to be going to Tottenham.
Very good post. Very good player.
Can’t wait to see Den develop into a great player. This could be the second year of that transition.
Similar to OG’s point, I don’t know a lot of people that watch enough non-EPL football on a regular enough basis to make judgments on players like Matuidi or Chamakh. I see pictures, video clips, etc and read snippets, but at the end of the day, I place my trust in the manager and scouts doing all the homework. Prior to seeing them on the pitch, we can only speculate as to Arsene’s plans and expectations for each purchased player. Based on past purchases, I’ll be excited about pretty much anyone he brings in, save for the occasional Amaury Bischoff.
@Marc
I’m fairly sure a lot of the lower teams make a point of this. eg Fulham to great effect. I imagine that R7 was always the prime target in the past but Rooney is likely to get lots of “attention” now that he’s gone.
Bassong one of the few i can imagine at the Arsenal.
@ Pz
The long post today was…….any reason you felt to reply for sooooooooooooo long?loool
Point taken, Ole. Chamakh might just be the next super-star and Wenger certainly is good at spotting them. But we are pretty thick with talent up-top… Eddie/RVP/Bendtner/Arshivin/Walcott/Vela — I’m not sure where you put another striker.
Am I mis-reading this or does talk of aquiring a true defensive midfielder suggest that the formation this campaign will have Denilson pushing forward and Song moving into the central-defense like we saw briefly at the end of last season?
Maria,
Your comments the other day cut me to the quick. It seems I am regarded as a buffoon, unable to take anything seriously. It is true that there is a strong element of buffoonery in my personality, but I wanted to prove that I am more than just a village idiot. It was for that reason that I embarked on this morning’s interminable post. Alas, it seems only to have attracted more scorn.
Muppet at 9:27,
Thanks for the compliment:~)
Diaby injured again….poor guy. Injuries standing between him and a decent career in football.
Facts are very stubborn things. Facts about Denilson are even more stubborn.
No wonder the Doom and Gloom brigade is out today, full of sound and fury.
Pathetic!
Shotta, Can you talk dirty to PaulN?
He needs cheering up.
California Gooner
If not because of injury problems normally present with our players, we won’t need anyone.
Out of Eduardo, RvP, Nik, Vela and Arshavin, Nik is the only one big enough to play top against premiership defenders. RvP is not that strong to play top so is Vela, Eduardo and Arshavin. As a result, we need another striker who can share the position with Nik.
Arsene need to do that to avoid a situation when some players sustain injuries. We might be fighting for our dear lives if we are faced with injury problems as is normal with our players. God forbid though.
Is Chamakh good? Well, if Arsene says he’s good then he is.
fyi…
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-why-i-sold-african-duo-to-man-city
Says more or less what you would expect.
Wenger on Vieira:
“”At the moment we need to look at the level of experience in our squad to make this kind of decision,”
Well Arsene old chap, if we have to look at the experience we have in midfield, it seems Vieira is on the way back.
PZ. Short or long post, i think you are wonderful.
These injuries are starting to be nerve-wracking
Rest Un Peace Sir Bobby. Italia 90 will always be a great memory of him, I’d rather forget the 1980 FA Cup Final, ta.
B*llocls! Should really switch a light on! In Peace, In Peace!
Rest In Peace Diaby, I always remember him scoring that goal against Liverpool.
Rest In Peace AFC, mid table mediocrity beckons, obviously, that great football sage, Cascarino, says so, so it must be true.
PZ – the italian smoothie.
OG,
I’m not so sure if Vieira is coming. Arsene is playing his cards very close to his chest. It looks to me as if Vieira may come if we don’t satisfy interests elsewhere. I do not believe that if Wenger does have a plan to bring a more experienced midfield player, that Vieira is that player being considered. I think that Vieria may be considered as a squad player, but that is all.
Thank you, QoS. It’s very kind of you to say so.
Sh*t! Have we paid off Reyes to say all this…
“They have a great team here in England and are one of the strongest teams in Europe. In fact I think Arsenal are getting stronger. Players like Cesc Fabregas are doing incredibly well. Ever since he made his debut with Arsenal you could see that he had a lot of quality.”
———————————————–
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/reyes-this-arsenal-side-is-on-the-up
Muppet;
If Wenger was playing his cards any closer to his chest, he’d need an X-Ray to see em!
Testing
Q: Can RVP play alone upfront?
Wenger: When you play with Arshavin you’re never alone upfront.
Instant Classic. Quality.
I agree Spike. Wenger is not revealing anything.
I think Chamakh will come. Unless Bordeaux come up with a high valuation.
I think we are in the market for another midfielder. But, I don’t think it’s Vieira. Only if we can’t find anybody else.
And that will be it.
I got all misty eyed last night (nuffin tio do with the bottle of vino) and felt it could be a good thing Vieira coming back, for a host of reasons, his influence in the dressing room, training ground and on the pitch good be invaluable.
He wouldnt expect to play every week and would not stunt the growth of our young midfielders.
Oh, and he’d be on a free!
Signing Matuidi as well, makes a lot of sense too, if he’s any good obviously!
As for Chamakh, I thought he had a release clause set at £7m?
You better be spot on Muppet. I’ll hold you to your word than. I am expecting 2 new signings now. And by new signings I don’t mean players returning from injuries, but rather players from OTHER clubs.
Barazite and Simpson….
There, 2 new signings.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/rosicky-set-for-emirates-stadium-return
Wenger confirms that Clichy and Rosicky are available to play in the Emirates cup. The Daily Mail and Telegraph had carried stories about both being unavailable due to injury. Cant help but think they are armed with a paid mandate to spread D & G.
Ateeb,
I am with you mate. We’re sick of the lies and Wengerspin. I’ll be downing my Peroni if don’t come off. WE NEED PLAYERS NOW.
Oh lets not forget Gav Hoyte & lansbury.
I wonder what Pz has to say on Arsene’s latest comments and the Viera situation. I hope he sticks to his journey that he embarked upon this morning.
Alex;
They were spouting how Clichy would miss the start of the season and Rosicky had broken down again. You dont think there is an agenda there do you?
Finally, we have come to an end to the Obafemi Martins to Arsenal rumours with him signing for Wolfsburg. This transfer season truly becomes a benchmark now.
Hell in a hand cart?
Apparantly we are signing some Nigerian striker from Wolfsburg.
Muppet,
I have already downed my crate of peroni’s and am now looking for the best snow that money can buy as you put it. Wenger is guilty.
Muppet,
Totally. Have you noticed how Alex is always putting the blame on the media? Disgraceful. He thinks the whole world is against us from referees to the media to the board. Wake up Alex. Can’t you see, all our suffering could go away if we acted like a normal club, that buys and sells, and not just SELL. 50M, will rot in the back, I tell. You heard it here first.
Lol Spike.
Btw, its common knowledge that The Daily Mail, Telegraph and the Sun are the easiest publications to ‘buy’ for hired PR firms.
We are skint though, we put the money from the Ade and Kolo fees into a pyramid scheme. It seemed so plausible at the time
Spike,
Good point, and good question. I think the release clause was set at more than that.
However, a player can still leave for less than the set clause, if the player is dead set on leaving and the club is one week from the start of their championship and need the money, and the club already told the player he can leave!
Shrewd Mr. Wenger would definitely start with a low valuation knowing that.
I’m not 100% certain but I think the clause might also depend on the wording and it’s exact provisions. For example, AC Milan offered more than Luis Fabiano’s release clause and Sevilla still refused to sell.
Common knowledge? You know what common knowledge is? Let me tell you. WE HAVE 50M IN THE BANK!!!
Ateeb,
I have seen the light. The peroni’s have contributed to the cause ofcourse. The money will be banked I tell ya. I can already see PHW rolling a joint with 50 quid notes. I want my money back!
Wenger is a braindead tw*t! How could he let Martins go to Wolfsburg!!@°! When we don’t renew our season tickets, they’ll get the point….I am not spending one more penny on Arsenal…not even the usual toothbrush till the board come to their senses or Usmanov takes over. BOLLOCKS!!!
Ole Gunner,
Looks like a lot of fans will have a serious case of halitosis going by what you say.
But Wenger gets a bonus % of every million he banks every close season. Then whats left over all goes towards PHWs cigars and Port and the huge dividends the board all squirrel away from the club.
Arsene is in Wengerland. Everybody knows we are now a selling club, with the only intention to make money for the board. We are peddling mediocrity, and Arsene can’t see it, so how comes it’s so it easy for me to see it ? We’re settling for mid table obscurity and the whole world knows that. The danger now, of course, is that Arsene is just being stubborn for the sake of it. He’s seen the articles written in esteemed publications like The Telegraph and The Daily Mail and he refuses to bow to their better judgement. If Arsene could just relax and make a few signings, like any other club, then we wouldn’t be in this crisis situation now, where we are sending a squad into battle akin to the Charge of The Light Brigade.
Alex,
4 years of selling us the future. Every year he says the players will be older. Like other teams don’t get older-chiefly Chelsea! That’s why there are now more Chelsea shirts to be found around London than Arsenal shirts. Shirts tell you about the quality of the squads….Wenger wake up and stop lying, you tw@t!
With the sh*t that comes out of their mouths, I dare say their breath already smells rather stale.
And what’s all this guff about Vieira. Arsenal is the only club for him. He could go anywhere – to Hull, to Wolves, to Charlton.
Never mind London, you try and find an Arsenal shirt in downtown Minsk Ontario or Kuala Lumpa. We just aint shifting shirts out there people. And that worries me.
Muppet, I can see Vieira joining Phil Brown too.
Arsene is in Wengerland. Lmao!
Those positivity-cultists on ACLF call the likes of us doomers. Bloody tinters-AKBers, they’ll be gone with Wenger managing a Ligue 2 side in France when we finally get rid of him. The club has taken us for granted and are now taking us as fools. We’re not fools we just want the players liked to us in Daily Mail, NOTW & The Sun to be bought.
what a positive post!
i am so tired of negative arsenal fans this is a real treat. denilson is neat and tidy and watch him he does actually pass is forwards loads, hes like gilberto quietly efficient. our midfield is a bit lightweight but song is pretty meaty
ole gunner
are you a braindead twat or is wenger.
martins? he is atleast 30, lied on his passport and a bit of a one trick pony. surely the alleged rapist, eduardo, bendtner, arshavin, vela, wallcot. all better options than a big legged old man?
i think someones been reading le grove again.
le grove is written by the most negative man in the uk. i would hate to be stuck in a lift with him.
or a pub.
rosicky’s mum,
Welcome. You are free to blog now. There are no AKB’s here to impede you from having your own opinion.
Sorry rosicky’s mum. You’ve set me right…
It was a doomy moquito bite that caused those last couple of comments.
le grove is written by a couple of bitchy men who have issues with hormonal imbalances.
They bitch to get attention.
Lol. rosicky’s mum, Ole Gunner was joking about Martins.
lol @ bitchy men.
Apparently #arsenal made an opening bid of £5.9M for Chamakh and Bordeaux’s valuation is more like £8.5M http://u.nu/83tp
AW on why he sold Toure & Adebayor to Man City
“I always say when you come to the decision to sell a player you can’t on top choose who you want to sell them to. If you decide to sell he can choose where he wants to go otherwise it would be completely unfair. If they are becoming a main rival I cannot stop it with a decision to sell a player or not. If they don’t buy from you they buy another good player from someone else.
Nobody can stop a club fighting for the top four and if they are a rival they will be the same for Man United, Liverpool and Chelsea. What is most important is we stay strong.”
Apparently Arsenal made an opening bid of £5.9M for Chamakh and Bordeaux’s valuation is more like £8.5M http://u.nu/83tp
Apparently Arsenal made an opening bid of £5.9M for Chamakh and Bordeaux’s valuation is more like £8.5M
http://u.nu/83tp
http://www.francefootball.fr/FF/breves2009/20090731_202756_arsenal-7m-pour-chamakh.html
Interesting OG.
Now that Martins has gone to Wolfsburg, I guess the Dzeko to Arsenal/ AC Milan stories will start again in earnest.
I think Chamakh is a good signing. He’s hungry.
Going to be totally motivated. Totally professional.
Oh fu*k are we not getting Martins now.
Bordeaux’s valuation I surmised from the comment thread of the article I linked to….to be clear.
I’ve been away and have trawled through some of the comments (sad, I know).
We have played a number of formations. I don’t know know what will be standard but it seems increasingly likely that there will be changes depending on games which to be honest I’m unsure about. Unless someone really stakes their claim and make them undroppable (i.e. as Flamini did).
I think Wenger knows the 4-4-2; let’s see after the Emirates cup because that would give a strong inclination on where we will go.
Regarding a defensive midfielder; I’m not sure if we need one. Someone that would remain disciplined and have a good positional awareness will be good but we have Denilson who did that. However power is becoming more important as much as I hate to say it but saying that, we have Diaby who can step up. He is a good passer; needs games in the DM role and a better discipline.
If we were to but someone in that position I would ideally like a deep-lying playmaker like Alonso (he can tackle) or even at long shot De Rossi or D’Agostino.
Chamakh will also be a fantastic signing. Can lead the line like Torres or even Henry did and can header/hold up. Lacks finishing but that would surely come with confidence as he has good technique.
seems Ian Wright was right PV4 will be returning, wenger all but admitted it in the interview.
Just hope that we get the hunter instead of chamack….
Vieira is a clever player but is losing the legs. Maybe he can play as a disciplined midfielder but the days of a box midfielder are gone. A couple of late bursts here and then but that’s all.
What he will bring is a psychological boost and a wealth of wisdom. Don’t expect too much on the pitch.
Is there anyone in the world, even with his knackered knees, that you would rather bring on with 15 mins to go defending a 1 goal lead away from home than Paddy V?
get Vieira for nowt, Chamakh for about 7mil, and then… I still think we go for one more, maybe 2 if eboue leaves. As it stands Vermaalen looks to be the only new addition to the first 11, but there will be a real scrap on for places after that – good, competition is healthy within the squad.
Viva wenger, viva arsenal, bring back the legend PV4!!!!!
arseneholis,
Better him than Silvestre…
DukeGoonem, martins?, are you doped or what ?. he is in his thirties just like adelazybayour and Toure
adebarndoortski now we’re getting Huntebarndoor or Chamaklazybarndoorski….big names
ole gunner or should i say ole wanker ………… fuck off !
ladotski, are we tetchy or what? There I was thinking it was cool to add silly suffixes to player names.
what is going on here again!?
I would love to see PV here again, its also nice to read some positive comments about the club from Reyes!
ladotski – fuck off blow job.
Ole – “institutional memory”.
Doesn’t matter if vieira barely plays, he can offer something unique to the dressing room. Maybe 1 year, the world cup then a coaching role. I would be very surprised and deeply saddened if he, bergkamp and henry didnt wind up coaching or managing at the club one day. Imagine bergkamp taking over from wenger!!
When bergkamp left my nan said “i dont really care if he scores in the wrong goal, i just want to watch him one more year”. Would be great to see paddy back to.
don’t sweat it Ole…
Call it a new term –
SARCHASM:
The gulf between your sarcastic effort and those who clearly missed it.
“I am ‘Truly AFC’ but will not condone mediocrity. I excel at everthing I do and I am a truly first class w*nk*r”
axis,
Quality..
This chamakh guy excites me, never seen him play once, but when was the last time wenger went shopping in france and didn’t come back with something special??
Have to figure the guy will be good. There must surely be space and money for 1 more also.
perhaps song is bound for defence and vieira will tutor a new holding player and denilson will be given license to be the box-to-box dynamo he can be??
everyone gone to bed?
Team tomorrow???
Almunia
sagna vermaalen gallas clichy
cesc denilson rosicky
arshavin eduardo rvp
now that is a scary good side.
ole gunner, nothing to do with the post after mine, more to do with your anti wenger jibes. what more do you and your fellow doomsday prophet want from him ?. There is a reason why he is the manager of AFC and we all (including myself) are not !!.
arsenehollis, fuck off
I wonder if they will let him lift the trophies with cesc or if vieira will get the prem and cesc can have the champs league???
ladotski,
No anti-Wenger jibes. We were all taking the piss out of regular rabid doomer, antigoon, anti-Arsenal Arsenal fan and other online cunts….
If you read the comments attentively you’d have seen that. Each comment had a tell-tale sign.
ladotski,
No anti-Wenger jibes. We were all taking the piss out of regular rabid doomer, antigoon, anti-Arsenal Arsenal fan and other online curnts….
If you read the comments attentively you’d have seen that. Each comment had a tell-tale sign.
The worst player in the league. Whoever says he can play like Cesc or is one of the best mids in the league, they obviuosly no nothing about soccer!!
arsenehollis
that is a good side, do you think any of the youngsters will get a start? Ramsey, Wilshere maybe
what is with the constant language?
arsenehollis
Your line up is good except that Song will be better defending in the middle between Cesc and Rosicky than Denilson.
I think we’ll see two different sides…. I put on my glasses and looked into the future and here’s what I thought I saw
Atletico
Eboue Gallas Vermaelen Clichy
Ramsey Denilson
Rosicky Arshavin Traore
Eduardo
RANGERS
Sagna Djourou Senderos Silvestre
Cesc Song Denilson
Wilshere Bendtner RVP
Yeah, I think Wenger will play half first-choice and half second-choice players in each game.
All i want for Christmas is a houseboy. Cesc would do.
@ ponyboy
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL….yep that houseboy comment from that guest blogger was NOT serious!!!!
And it went right over her/her head when i asked about it.
@ Pz
Now i feel bad……i hope that QofS comment helped you work through some of your insecurities.
Btw you are by no means the village idiot that crown is held solely by JonJon…..and don’t you take that away from him!!!!
Oh and Denilson is very veryyyyyyyyyyy special.
Just got around to reading today’s posts.
Wengerball you truly spanked our newest troll, James, the antigoon, by exposing him as an ignorant twat when he dared compared Denilson to Cattermole. If that wanker had even a shred of respectability he should quietly slink off to another blog where he will be welcome spouting his usual drivel.
For those who missed it, here is Wengerball’s masterpice, Denilson vs Cattermole:
Goals 3 1
Saves 0 0
Penalty saves 0 0
Goal assist 7 2
Clean sheet 14 10
Red card 0 2
Yellow card 3 10
Fouls Conceded 66 65
Fouls won 78 29
Tackles lost 28 36
Tackles won 103 131
Shot on target 13 6
Total shot 29 26
Appearances 37 33
Att. created 35 23
Total Passes 2535 1092
Acc. Passes 2204 862
Minutes played 3149 2823
Denilson-Catermole
Passes Total 2535 – 1092
Back/side 715 – 338
back/side% 28.2-30.9
Scottish Hack,
” In all your time here you’ve never signed a player from Scotland.”
AW,
“That isn’t not my fault that’s your fault.”
LMAO!!!
………………Arsene Knows………………..
BTW who the hell is this Cattermole character??
Sounds like his destined to be a Spuds player.
He’s British and he plays for Wigan. Comparing him to Denilson, as Wengerball and Shotta pointed out is just downright ignorant.
The position Denilson plays is so underrated.
Look at Alonso/Makelele. They both played the same place, and their clubs were eager to get rid of them. Lucky for pool, they kept him.
Denilson is even better than Messi.He is possibly the greatest player ever to play for Arsenal i just dont know why the club doesnt name the stadium after him.
I have just watched Denilson”s new video “100 great square balls”
Sure it wasn’t a home movie Andy?
Arsene is a knob if he keeps Denilson with us. Denilson is a Liability to THE ARSENAL
i think those will make major improvement next season is Theo,Bendtner, and Eduardo.
Theo needs to improve in his finishing (not that his finishing now is poor).He surely can link up with rvp and arshavin with through passes.
Bentner–>practise ur header n ull be zero to hero.
Eduardo–>keep fit n ull score.
Brilliant article. One of the best I’ve read in ages.