Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | July 13, 2009

REVIEW: In The Shadow Of A Giant – Mel Charles

Think of Mel Charles and it is pretty much a racing certainty that one of the first things that will pop into your head is the fact that he was John Charles’ younger brother. It’s alright, Mel knows it, does not mind it and indeed used it as a motivator throughout his career to try and show people, “Yes, he’s bloody good but I’m not half bad either“. Like his older sibling, Mel was a versatile player, comfortable in central defence, attack and at right half which gave him what is now called, a half-decent career. If you wonder how good he was, FIFA picked him for their team of the 1958 World Cup. As the record goes, Now That’s What I Call Quite Good.

The thing is that throughout the book, even when talking about the times that he fell out of love with football, Charles cannot quite believe that he had the career that he did. Starting out at Leeds United, at the same time as brother John, he succumbed to homesickness and returned to Swansea for a job outside of the game. The local team, Swansea Town (now City) signed him up and Charles set about making the grade as a professional.

This is a tale of bygone days. The high jinks of today are not a lot different from those that Charles and his team-mates got up to back in the 1950s and a decade later. The crucial difference is that the media turned a blind eye to it, as Charles says they wanted to keep in with the players. Even so, it did not stop Charles getting hauled over the coals by George Swindin during his Arsenal days for having a pint. Back then, and probably now, the club expected players to abstain. THe intervening decades probably made up for that…

When Charles signed for Arsenal in 1959, it was for a record fee between two clubs. For a short while, he joined brother John as the most expensive British players following the latters move from Leeds to Juventus. Typically, it was the elder sibling who shaded the values. His move from The Vetch Field to Highbury was by no means straightforward, a bidding war with Chelsea, Tottenham, Manchester United and a late move by Newcastle all in the mix. Arsenal won though, offering the most. At the time Charles was happy with the move to London and still holds a deep affection for the club.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and he now views the move with more than a tinge of regret. Injury wreaked havoc with his stay at the club and mixed in with the rise of Bill Nicholson’s Tottenham team of the time, give him a sense of what might have been had he gone a further seven miles North in the capital. That Tottenham signed Dave MacKay having failed to sign Charles is probably little comfort to him.

Even so, Charles had an excellent scoring record for Arsenal, netting 28 times in 64 games. He left in February 1962 for Cardiff City where he linked up with brother John for the only time in club football. Despite this, Cardiff were relegated and Mel’s career entered into a descent. Ironically, leaving the professional game for a short spell once his Cardiff career ended reignited his love for football and he briefly returned to the Football League with Port Vale before once more dropping into the non-league game.

This is an enjoyable yarn. Charles rarely has a bad word for anyone, recognising his own character has its flaws which contributed to personal differences. One thing shines through is his pride in his own achievements and those of his more famous sibling, even if the latter did deprive him of the opportunity to wear his white suit to Sophia Loren’s party when John was in Turin. It is an honest account of the life a footballer in post-war Britain, the lengths that the military would go to in order to accomodate National Service. You sense the peak of his career was Sweden 1958 but to an outsider, he achieved much more than that. And yes, Mel, it ain’t bad for a boy from Cwmbrwla.

Click to purchase In the Shadow of a Giant

Finally, my thoughts go to John Hartson. There is little one can say other than to wish him all the best in his fight against such a dreadful disease. Actually there is one thing to say: please make a donation or perhaps here.

’til Tomorrow.

In The Shadow Of A Giant – Mel Charles

<p>Think of Mel Charles and it is pretty much a racing certainty that one of the first things that will pop into your head is the fact that he was John Charles’ younger brother. It’s alright, Mel knows it, does not mind it and indeed used it as a motivator throughout his career to try and show people, “<em>Yes, he’s bloody good but I’m not half bad either</em>”. Like his older sibling, Mel was a versatile player, comfortable in central defence, attack and at right half which gave him what is now called, a half-decent career. If you wonder how good he was, FIFA picked him for their team of the 1958 World Cup. As the record goes, <em>Now That’s What I Call Quite Good</em>.</p>

<p>The thing is that throughout the book, even when talking about the times that he fell out of love with football, Charles cannot quite believe that he had the career that he did. Starting out at Leeds United, at the same time as brother John, he succumbed to homesickness and returned to Swansea for a job outside of the game. The local team, Swansea Town (now City) signed him up and Charles set about making the grade as a professional.</p>

<p>This is a tale of bygone days. The high jinks of today are not a lot different from those that Charles and his team-mates got up to back in the 1950s and a decade later. The crucial difference is that the media turned a blind eye to it, as Charles says they wanted to keep in with the players. Even so, it did not stop Charles getting hauled over the coals by George Swindin during his Arsenal days for having a pint. Back then, and probably now, the club expected players to abstain. THe intervening decades probably made up for that…</p>

<p>When Charles signed for Arsenal in 1959, it was for a record fee between two clubs. For a short while, he joined brother John as the most expensive British players following the latters move from Leeds to Juventus. Typically, it was the elder sibling who shaded the values. His move from The Vetch Field to Highbury was by no means straightforward, a bidding war with Chelsea, Tottenham, Manchester United and a late move by Newcastle all in the mix. Arsenal won though, offering the most. At the time Charles was happy with the move to London and still holds a deep affection for the club.</p>

<p>Hindsight is a wonderful thing and he now views the move with more than a tinge of regret. Injury wreaked havoc with his stay at the club and mixed in with the rise of Bill Nicholson’s Tottenham team of the time, give him a sense of what might have been had he gone a further seven miles North in the capital. That Tottenham signed Dave MacKay having failed to sign Charles is probably little comfort to him.</p>

<p>Even so, Charles had an excellent scoring record for Arsenal, netting 28 times in 64 games. He left in February 1962 for Cardiff City where he linked up with brother John for the only time in club football. Despite this, Cardiff were relegated and Mel’s career entered into a descent. Ironically, leaving the professional game for a short spell once his Cardiff career ended reignited his love for football and he briefly returned to the Football League with Port Vale before once more dropping into the non-league game.</p>

<p>This is an enjoyable yarn. Charles rarely has a bad word for anyone, recognising his own character has its flaws which contributed to personal differences. One thing shines through is his pride in his own achievements and those of his more famous sibling, even if the latter did deprive him of the opportunity to wear his white suit to Sophia Loren’s party when John was in Turin. It is an honest account of the life a footballer in post-war Britain, the lengths that the military would go to in order to accomodate National Service. You sense the peak of his career was Sweden 1958 but to an outsider, he achieved much more than that. And yes, Mel, it ain’t bad for a boy from Cwmbrwla.</p>

<p><a href=”http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1844547760?ie=UTF8&tag=dadsjuk-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=1844547760″>In the Shadow of a Giant</a><img src=”http://www.assoc-amazon.co.uk/e/ir?t=dadsjuk-21&l=as2&o=2&a=1844547760″ width=”1″ height=”1″ border=”0″ alt=”" style=”border:none !important; margin:0px !important;” /></p>


Responses

  1. All the best to John Hartson and his family

  2. I do not know if it is true, but i have just been told my a friend who works in the football industry that Adebayor will sign for Man City today….

    As i said, i do not know if it is true, but the last bit of info. i got from my friend was 100% on the button.

    I personally hope he is wrong!

  3. *by a friend that shoudl read….

  4. *should – FFS

  5. just read an article on arsenalnewsreview.co.uk

    anyone want to laugh at a pothetic excuse for a fan, his last comments are “if Arsenal dont win nothing next season, Arshavin and Cesc will leave”

    Does anyone seriously think any of our players are thinking “If we finish this season trophless once again Im gonna go!” ….

    If they are thinking like that im sure Wenger will suss them out and get shot of them this summer. Im pretty confident in us bringing home some silverware this season but the nagtivity and pessimism is very annoying when we have such a fine crop of players ready to battle on all fronts.

    Why not be optimistic, if we cant then we will not enjoy this season at all unless we start with a 5-0 win and stay top for the whole campaign.

    Some fans need to be realistic and put their support over expectations.

  6. Matt…

    What was the last bit of info

  7. Matt, let him go if he wants to go. Ww dont need Usamov. I’d rather not qualify for the champions league

  8. Matt

    tell us please then mate

  9. Matt,

    Would you be surprised if Ade was sold?

    I can’t stand Pyles Palmer and all that the guy represents – but if we don’t win something it absolutely does dilute the clubs ability to retain players, especially at the higher level.

  10. I dont think Ade should go, we need all our better players. Even if Theo/Vela/Eduardo are considered to play up top they aint in any form reliable to do so yet for different reasons.

    Eduardo back from long term injury
    Theo not given a run there yet
    Vela same as Theo

    Our only real strikers which are used by Wenger and he is confident to do so are: Bendtner, RvP, Ade and the returning Eduardo

    So come start of the season we will have 3 which Wenger will be confident to chuck in.

    If we sell Ade, we are left with 2 and a returning Eduardo, with the un tested Walcott and Vela.

    …. will we buy another IF he goes

  11. The only thing players like as much as trophies is a huge bundle of money every week

  12. K-Rod

    Yep, its why Robinho, Barry and co will not feel too down come end of the season

  13. Great review YW.

  14. Matt……

  15. It makes sense; Man City absolutely need more forwards. Even with Tevez arriving, they’re still a couple short of that Striker XI they appear to be building.

    Anyway, respect to Matt for risking all his credibility.

    Just kidding! I think he’s been around for 2-3 years, and doesn’t have a rep for spurious transfer talk.

  16. If Man City somehow manage to buy Terry and Ade, they might have to taken seriously, even with Mark Hughes

  17. If – big if – all these new players click quickly, then they could be challenging for a CL place at the end of the season, but it won’t be at Arsenal’s expense

  18. …if they get one.

  19. I’ve got my nostradamus eye wear on at the mo and as far as is visible, this is the year the four will be broken.. man city will do better than in the past but Everton are rosily tinted for the fourth.. of the top three there’s a myriad of prospects all ending in shock and terror but it won’t be long till the super outsiders (Arshenal) become the ultra insiders..

  20. OneofUs, I hope not, hopefull chelsea will fall appart

  21. I doubt Wenger would allow Ade to go City if he seriously thought City were a threat.

  22. By the way who was Matt’s other prediction which came true???

  23. chrisgoona, That Jordan & Peter Andre wouldn’t last

  24. Sky now saying Man City and Arsenal talking about Ade transfer
    For the first time I’m really worried about finishing in the top 4 next season, if Ade goes to city. I think it would be a disaster for us.
    I’ve been watching replays of games on Arsenal tv and Ade scores goals of a type and quality none of our other strikers can match.
    And who would we replace him with? A 21 yo untried player from France?
    And then say “well it’s a young side” when we win nothing!
    Maybe I’m just being gloomy, but if he does leave and City finish above us because of his goals, will all the Ade haters who have driven him from the club apologise to the rest of the fans?

  25. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, YW.

    I remember there was a battle for his signature but we got him for £45k, I think.

    It was after the transfer deadline so he could not play until the following season.

    All that time to wait & when he made his debut it was a crap game, with us losing 0-1 at home to Sheffield Wednesday.

    He was a decent player but got a cartilage injury, which in those days was very serious. He was never the same. He played CB or RH & at the end CF. He was probably one of the best headers of a ball I can remember, scoring most of his goals that way.

    We kids were allowed to watch the players train, at Grovelands Park then. I suspect Mel liked a pint of harder stuff but he certainly downed a pint or 2 of my Tizer. Nice bloke he & Jackie Henderson gave us a lot of their time, during the breaks in training.

    I think it was Mel’s son, Jeremie, who had a decent career at Oxford & a few other clubs.

    Very sad to hear about John Hartson, let us all hope he makes a full recovery.

  26. So Ade’s transfer to City will cause all the DOOMERS at Legrove etc to be happy and a mass party awaits on his departure!

    Then you have the other kind of Doomers who dont want to see Ade go because Wenger will just play another kid and use it as an excuse for failure!

    JohnN, do you class yourself as the 2nd type of doomer? The 1st type of gooners will be bitching about who we should have brought in with their championship manager views, not Ade being driven away by them. . .

  27. chrisgoona, you sound like the 3rd type of doomer who blames everything on the fans

  28. K-Rod

    I aint a doomer though, im pretty happy about my team.

  29. Chrisgoona, I cant help but feel Ade is vital to our team. I would be worried if he did actually leave. Who would there be to bring in? even if we had money. Players lke Ade are few and far between but alot of people dont seem to realise this

  30. ChrisGoona
    I try to be optimistic.
    I don’t believe AW will play another kid as an excuse but may be forced into doing so through lack of options.
    Who is there around to replace Ade?
    In our current squad the nearest we have is NB.
    He can score us some headed goals but doesn’t have the same ability leading the line.
    And with transfer market and wages so inflated where will we find a mature striker of similar ability for less than 30million and less than 100k a week?
    So we will rely on AW to find a relatively unknown replacement, such as Chamach(sp)
    And again squad stability will have been destroyed,

  31. I admired Bendtners efforts at the end of last season but its true that he just does not have the same ability on the ground as Adebeyor. I suppose its all talk at the moment, he might not be going anywhere

  32. Blimey Matt…that may be well be quite the source. SSN are reporting that a fee has been agreed.

  33. I’m getting really worried now. Ade to City. Its one thing to sell a player to a club outside England and a club inside England. Whats happening? I didn’t bargain for the quiet weekend to be altered by this bad news. Must we lose our key players every summer? I’m sad.

  34. Given the paucity of information about this, it is easy for either party to deny and equally easy to ignore. Unless it is a gross untruth, Arsenal won’t comment but does the silence give any validity to the story?

    If this summer is anything to go by, you would expect the club to issue a statement in much the same way that they did with Cesc or Sagna if it is an outright porky pie.

    YW

  35. K-Rod JohnN

    Yes i agree with both of you.

    Alot of the fans that dislike Ade and have been wanting him out for whatever reason do not understand this.

    Ade could have went last season if it was all about the money, he didnt, he stayed got injured, had a hard campaign, and got absoultely slated by all his fans for it despite scoring into double figures and proving to be still a reliable striker for us. If he goes i will not blame the guy, i believe the most part of our fans can see what Ade brings us, and we will struggle to replace him IF he goes.

    Its just such a shame to let a player of his age and talent go in this way.

  36. Yes a deal is being done as we speak. Arsenal has agreed an undisclosed fee with citeh. Ade and citeh are now negotiating personal terms in the region of 150k per wk. Wish micah could come here tho’.

  37. We can hope they are really discussing the transfer of Senderos, after all he does seem surplus to requirements!

  38. If I remember correctly, Matt, a long time back did come up with similiar information regarding RVP. Can’t remember exactly what it was, but maybe it was something to do with him refusing to play for some reason .Which obviously was false. And Matt did claim that he wouldn’t be induldging in such rumour activity again. I could be wrong. But I am willing to put my credibility over it.

  39. I am firmly convinced that we’ll be weaker for selling Adebayor. Of the remaining strikers, 2-RVP & Eduardo have fitness doubts, and the others are unproven. I don’t know how many strikers have Ade’s pace, and power in the air, and his being settled in the squad.

    Unless the player wants to leave, we have no business selling him.

    And selling him to Man City, caving to the money would just show, unfortunately that we really might be lacking any strength when it comes to finances. It wouldn’t necessarily be true, but it will be the interpretation.

    Psychologically, losing Adebayor to Man City (if it did happen) would not be good for the team.

  40. Adebayor is an important player for us. The only way I see Arsene letting him leave, would be the players disatisfaction with the club. Which I won’t be surprised since the fans have done an amazing job to show how much we love him, through brochures, and other views that have been hogged around the blogs and media. I’d be a bit sad to lose him, but it wouldn’t mean an end of the world for us. However what it would mean is that we could potentially be losing one of the top 5 strikers in Europe in the world.

  41. Bye bye ade. Hope u will be happy there. I really tried to bring myself to adore u like i did before u openly lifted ur skirt to milan. Sorry, i just couldnt yeah? Even if u had stayed, it just wont be the same. Its over mate. Hope those mancs will love u more. Score lots and get set up for life. Will never forget that volley at the scum’s home. Absolute belter.

  42. if Ade is going to Citeh
    are we sad,elated or witteh?
    we sang for him once
    the ingrate, the dunce,
    once he’s gone there’ll be a new ditteh.

  43. Ole Gunner, Thats a great but worrying point about the psycological aspect. It’d be a very, very bad messagenNot just to our current players but to the footballing world. Man City? Football has truly gone mad

  44. http://goal.com/en/news/9/england/2009/07/13/1379805/breaking-news-manchester-city-in-talks-with-arsenal-for-emmanuel-

  45. I hope this is all a load of bollocks…

  46. As i said before, i dont blame the guy if he leaves… the moaning at home games, the booing, the constant bad press… plus all the little jokes many supporters and bloggs make on the guy. Why on earth would he want to stay!??

  47. Hope this news turns out to be false. Or even if it is not false that we cant agree a deal with Man City. We were showing signs of a settled squad for next season but things can change so quickly in the silly season.

    Even if AW thinks that Ade’s postion in the club is untenable, selling him to City may be a mistake.

  48. Everyone please calm down. It is wrong to accuse someone for lifting his skirt, when you don’t have any information or you haven’t witnessed such an activity yourself.

  49. I agree with others that the message this would send out to other clubs is come and get our players!
    Sometimes I think the refusal of AW to come out and say directly that a player is not for sale has a very detrimental effect on the club. Yes selling Ade if he is not committed to the team may be the best thing when looked at in isolation, but perhaps the message it sends out makes it a bad deal.
    There will always be a negativity about the club as long as the impression given is that we don’t have sufficient money to meet our requirements in the transfer market and need to sell.

  50. I aint scared of City, they can buy who they want.. End of the day they can only put out 11 players. They can have 30 really good internationals in their squad and i will still believe Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool will have a better working system that they will struggle to fair better than come end of the season.

    All these new players coming will cause many too leave, which has already occured. Too many changes unsettles the squad mentality and team ethic of the team. I really hope they fall flat on their faces this season.

  51. And for 20 mil , you gotta be shitting me, if ronaldo when for 80 Ade has to be at least half that,

  52. No big loss. Was a nobody when he came, will be a nobody at citeh. Trust arsene to have someone lined up. Happy days. Even if he scores loads up there, it wont be at our expense.

  53. I submitted a complaint to Arsenal.com regarding all the negativity. Im sick of it

  54. It cant be twenty million surely? I thought was going to something astronomical. Something like £40 mill. We shouldn’t sell for twenty no way, what a piss take I hate the closed season

  55. Arsenal.com needs to put up a statement if its false.

    Same way that they did to Cesc

  56. 40m would seem like a more suitable figure. Hes proven 30+ goals a season at the top level.

    I will be very very annoyed if he went to City for that amount.

  57. 20Milly is Shitcake. less than 45Milly shouldn’t be accepted. This is utter crap.

    Oh Arsenal Oh Arsenal

  58. Just wonder what exactly Sky Sports source is for this information, does it say?

  59. Xabi Alonso is going for 35Milly, Ade 20? is this LA Circus?

  60. I value Ade alot higher than 20m if fuc*ing Bent went Spurs for 18m, Bentley 17m, Ronaldo 80m…

    Even not with an inflated market like we have today Ade going for 20m isnt acceptable.

  61. FOR FU** SAKES COULD SOMEONE CONFIRM THIS RUMOUR. WHERE IS THAT BLADE NOW…..ALEX?

  62. What odds skysport’s source is the bloke on here who said he had a source for it?

  63. I dont believe the story is true

  64. @CG

    Its a “Source” that they Understand

  65. arsenehollis

    haha… most likely mate!

  66. AW seems to have his own system of player valuation and sometimes looks to be out of touch with the rest of the transfer market!
    However if Ade really wants to leave this will force Arsenals hand somewhat and we may have to take a lower price. Another cost of the negative way fans have ttreated Ade.

  67. Matt!! all your fault!

  68. Sorry Ateeb, I used that blade to slash my wrists. I have my swiss knife still handy though.

  69. Sorry – i had to go out as soon as i posted my comment this morning.

    Firsty – Ateeb – i have never quoted a source before on here, as i have been told things in good faith before, and not just about Arsenal.

    And i certainly haven’t quoted anything about RVP,so you have me confused with someone else on that.

    The previous bit of info. i had was that Zola would be the next West Ham Manager, and that was sometime before it actually happened, so my source had previously been good.

    I would no way share any info. with you guys usually, as i don’t want to spread crap – but i had it on good authority today about Ade.

  70. Why not copy what Fergie did to CR9 when he wanted to leave? Force him to Stay, sell him the next season for 80Milly

  71. Matt

    So you wont tell your source, Sky Sports wont tell their source! Why we always left in the dark with this crap. Come on i want to know who told you..

  72. i don’t want him to go at all – so even if i did make stuff up, i wouldn’t of in this case!

  73. I will personally carry Ade to Eastlands.His performances last season were diabolical.And why is everyone so suprised,Arsene didnt start him in any of the games after the Man utd semi.The writing on the wall.

    ChrisGoona and others you can still call the Samaritans.

    £20m.Now lets get that DM we are crying out for.

  74. The King

    If we dont get that DM what you gonna do??

  75. a load of horseshit – no quotes from agent, clubs player, just sky sports talk – on this really slowwww news day.

    and most tellingly of all pyles palmer hasnt done his ‘exclusive’ on the story so it mus be elephant shit

    personally until pyles..i mean the club can confirm any such activity then its camel shit

  76. Alex,

    No can’t use your blade. Don’t want to catch any infections.

  77. I think Matt is Ade in disguise.

    He has started the rumor, so as to see how he is valued by the fan base…

    We love you Matt/ Ade

  78. Matt when you say your source from within the football industry… which part? our club?

  79. Without Ade we are going to struggle, simple as that

  80. Oh MAN!!!

    BREAKING NEWS! ARSENAL.COM HAVE CONFIRMED THE TRANSFER!!!!

  81. hehehehhehe. I have been told that by a source that understands

  82. Wise choice Ateeb!

  83. arsenalkabisa

    not funny

  84. No Chris, He doesn’t work at AFC.

    I am not intentionally being secretive, i only shared it because the tit bits he has given me in the past have all been true.

    Can’t really say anymore.

    As i said from the off – it might be a load of bollocks, but i thought i would share it based on the accuracy of the info. i have had in the past.

  85. Interesting!
    IF it’s true, at a guess it might suggest AW sees RvP taking up a more pronounced strike role, with Eduardo, Bendtner, AA, Vela and perhaps Walcott. Not a bad all round strike force.
    OR he has someone else lined up, like Chamakh.
    OR t’aint true.

  86. Ok cheers Matt

    We will have to see what happens then, if he goes it will be a huge loss.

  87. When Matt broke this story to us at 10.45 AM, Sky Sports still had’nt done so if am not mistaken. I first saw the sky sports story at around 12.30 PM.

  88. Does Anyone have Wenger’s number?

  89. does this not fall into the rumor category of the news – everyone is running exclusives of the sky report as their own exclusive. they used to have a name for this -is it chinese whispers or is the grapes marvin was singing about

  90. Arsenal will not sell Ade unless Wenger OK’s it and Wenger would approve selling to another PL team if he thought it would come back and bite him in the arse. If he goes it will be because Wenger is either happy with the other strikers he has or has a target to replace Ade with.

    Fergie has said that ManU will not be spending anymore this summer. If true I feel ManU could struggle.

  91. Ole,
    I told you not to be surprised mate if he goes…..the writing was on the wall as far as I could see.!

    CG – I don’t agree with you CG that Ade has decided to go because of the unrest. I’m convinced this is primarily Arsene’s decision. And if he does go to City – that’ll tell you all you need to know about where his priorities lie..!!

    When someone like Philippe Auclair goes on record to say the deal with Chamakh is done, given his connections to the club and Wenger – I don’t think you just dispel this info as mindless speculation. Given that Blanc has further asked for the situation to be clarified – it raises suspicions even more.

    Matt – your obviously in the know mate.! Thanks for the heads up..!

  92. At Arsenal, we are very honest when selling our wares. A bit like honest joe the fishmonger. We wont sell above the market price. Let manure and others cheat. No we wont cheat people…we’re honest Arsenal. Come to us if u want good quality products at market prices. Goods sold are not returnable. Next up cesc at 20mil also? No wonder barca n madrid loves to shop at the emirates, or should we call it tesco now. We guarantee rock bottom prices or ur money back.

  93. Interesting about the silence.

    I though Citeh yap about their transfers???

  94. Joe,

    Adebayor hasn’t left yet. We’ll see if Wenger does sell him…

  95. Joe

    I dont agree with you thinking that its entirely Wenger’s decision. How can you when you know the player is very very clearly unhappy? The player wants out, Wenger sees it better for us if he leaves. Its a decision which will be best for the team in Wenger’s eyes and he has the final word. BUT it all comes down to the players wants.

  96. Ole

    Yes, IF it happens

  97. Chamakh is not a great goal scorer. We must keep Ade. This is bad. It cant be true

  98. A question to all the Ade fans.Do you think him going to City will mean we wont finish in the top 4?

  99. I feel like using my first hug on max-gunner…..should I? He is tempting……Alex, what you suggest?

  100. max_gunner

    Who exactly have we ever let go on a cheap that we never wanted to?

  101. I think Wenger’s dealings have always been very good

  102. all you ade fans????

    If he is transfered to another club me and probably most on here will cease to care about him- but while he is an arsenal player and makes vital contributions to the cause we support him.

  103. I received the call this morning Alex, came on and posted it here as soon as i heard…

  104. @bergkamp

    You never ever never ever make your enemy stronger…

    Havent you seen how Aliediere only has two good games in a season?

  105. If this is all true, it raises a big question; who is going to be the next player to get driven out by the fans?

  106. INS
    Pires 6m
    Ljungerg 3m
    Silvinho 4m
    Edu 6m
    Kanu 4.5m
    Gallas – swap for Cole plus cash
    Toure 150k
    Gilberto 4.5m
    RvP 2.75m
    Ade 7m

    OUTS
    Anelka 23m
    Overmars 25m
    Henry 18m
    Vieira 13.7m
    Van Bronk 8.5m

  107. max_gunner

    as you can see we always get ripped off dont we??

  108. Did you happen to call skysports as well, Matt?

  109. i for one dont believe the story – i might be wrong but it looks like pure speculation from sky’s part. I feel the club would confirm accepting a bid, if a bid was made and permission would be given for him to speak with citheh.

    Also i dont think wenger wants to sell – but with crazy money you dont know whats possible. certainly the boy is worth more than 20 mill, and seeing as wenger doesnt want to sell, if a fee is set i reackon it would be as high as 40-50 mill.

  110. Damn you Matt. Now we all are refreshing numerous pages like mad. Damn you damn you damn you!!!

  111. You could have made some money off that little piece of information… why would you come on a blogg and tell it first?

  112. LOL – No Ateeb, I was just thinking to myself that surely it can’t of spread to SSN just from here….

    And you still owe me an apology for accusing me of talking crap about RVP by the way!

    Sorry Steve….

    I hope i am wrong anyway, i personally want Ade to stay.

  113. The story seems to be getting more vague.
    Sky sports are now saying talks took place over weekend but no offer has been made. And that Adebeyor’s side would be open to the move. From then on they are saying they believe Arsenal may be willing to sell.
    Last night on talk sport the journalist said he believed AW would be willing to sell Cesc if the right offer came in.
    It goes down to the perception that the media has that the club NEEDS the money rather than would rather keep the players.

  114. Chris,

    How do you know i didn’t go on to Betfair first! :-)

  115. The fans haven’t driven adebayor out at all , he’s a mercenary who made high demands last season when AFC were in a difficult position and Wenger hasn’t forgotten.

  116. No I don’t. I am sure, you had made those comments. Just not really bothered to go through the archives.

    And why just tell it on a blog, when you cant share your information? What capacity does he work at? Designation? Who is he? Dont tell the names but you must know him, since he was kind enough to give you a call before he called sky sports.

  117. Max_gunner,

    As in all transfers there may be factors here which we as fans cant see. There is no use being depressed. Right now nothing is confirmed. Chill out.

  118. By: Berg10 on July 13, 2009
    at 2:28 pm

    are by any chance part of the brigade that worships the ground flamini walks on?

    just asking cause most people who level that accusation at Ade are the ones also saying we should have given flamini what he wants to stay with us

  119. Berg10
    In that case why did AW say that he had made a financial sacrifice to stay at Arsenal?

  120. Berg10,

    You fucking hypocrite. RVP just renegotiated his contract for more money. Does that make him a mercenary. Last I checked RVP never scored 30 in any season.

  121. Ada is an unhappy player, he needs to move on, He wont get to many games at city with all those strikers they have. Plus he doesn’t kick people enough.

    We have Eduardo, Theo and Rosicky back this year, Bendtner can play up front as can Vela, Wishere will get some starts, so Arshavin could be pushed forward plus Wenger will buy a 6ft plus striker for the more physical games.

    How many crosses do we chuck in anyway and many of our skill players can hold up the ball if they have to.

    So don’t be so gloomy we have talented players, it will be a good year

  122. Berg10

    do you still have a thing for Flamini?

  123. Dandan

    He aint gone yet mate, take your party hat off for a second

  124. Ole

    That amuses me very much also, RvP getting 80k a week after scoring less goals than Ade. Next season he should be frightened to step on the pitch !!

  125. I think with this one that there are various stages in the process. The Bassong story broke last week. It amounted to some news that an enquiry had been made by Arsenal. We can surmise what happened. Arsenal were told that £15 million would be required for a player who was in part influential in Newcastle’s relegation to the championship. Arsenal probably pointed out that this one player amounted to one quarter of that club’s valuation. And that was the last we heard of it.

    In the situation with Adebayor, it is unlikely that City will quibble over the transfer fee demanded. My view is that as Alex has said, that there may be other factors involved. One could be that Arsene wants confirmation that another player is available before committing, like Chamakh. The other is that he may be trying a player exchange, with say, Richards. Who knows ?

  126. Chris who said I wanted him to go, but he is unsettled and unhappy

  127. Dandan,

    We also have Benik Afobe, Sanchez Watt and Jay Simpson. You might have a point afterall.

  128. What is a Richard?

  129. Micah Richards.

  130. Dandan

    Yep he is unhappy, we all knew that. I dont see the ’source’ on this Ade story too reliable as there actually isnt a source as of yet. What basis is there for us to get all upset and start planning next season without him.

    We cant believe it till we see it at http://www.Arsenal.com !

  131. Micah Richards has swine flu, his value must have dropped some what?

  132. Ateeb – i can 100% confirm that i have never made any such comments about RVP, so you should really think about taking your comment back, rather than just be rude to me, and try and act all high and mighty.

    And i shared the information on this blog, as i come on here a lot, and as i have had accurate information from my friend in the past, would share it with some of the people i chat to on here.

    And why should i share any of the information about my friend with you – when all you have done is ridicule my post, made silly comments and tried to make me look stupid?

    As i said, he is a friend, and i am not about to compromise his work situation to share anything with you.

    Last time i checked, it was Yogi’s blog, and not yours, so don’t tell me what i can and can’t post.

  133. @ geeGunner – No

    @ John N – I was under the impression Adebayors wages doubled.

    Ole – calm down, and din’t RVP turn down several offers (one to Citeh) all of which were more than he’s agreed to Arsenal?

  134. Berg10

    Ade stayed – end of argument

  135. Im off home, hopefully will come in tomorrow laughing about how the “sources” were wrong!!

    Laters ppl

  136. CG – on Flamini, I wasn’t happy with the way he left so No I haven’t got a thing for him. Any player that hurts AFC has no place for me, past or present.

  137. Berg10,

    I am quite sure Adebayor turned down 2 offers for more money last season.

  138. Ade Unhappy?????? He is on £80k a week which will rise to £100k at City.God would we all wish to be unhappy.

    He is a bad apple.I want players like RVP and Bendtner who WANT to play for the club

  139. Bergkamp the legend

    Money isnt the source of happiness

    Neway im off :)

  140. Ole Gunner –

    If that is the case fair enough, let’s see what develops with the Mancs in that case.

  141. Relax Matt. Just interogating. Can post whatever we want here can’t we? No one is asking you to respond to my comments. Innocent untill proven guilty. Cheer up.

  142. Don’t attack Matt people. For chrissakes. The story will either have been true or false.

  143. Ade not 30 goals every season but ONE season.Just like Kevin Phillips at Sunderland.A one season wonder

    How many goals did Ade score v Man Utd,Chelski and Liverpool last season? a big fat NONE and they are thegames that really count.

    Hope he enjoys playing in the Carling cup while we are in the CL

  144. Matt has never claimed the story to be true, he just passed on what he heard and it seems to hold some water.

    The one called Ateeb is a retard

  145. K-Rod,

    Ateeb has clarified his position on the matter at 2.56 PM so please dont make comments which dont befit you. He has been a contributor on this blog for far longer than you have been.

  146. Ole – I am not attacking anyone – in fact it is Ateeb who has been suggesting that i have said things on the past that i categorically have not, and ridiculing my posts.

    I made it perfectly clear when i posted first thing this morning that it may or may not be true.

    I posted it here to let people who may be interested know, only to then have silly comments aimed at me by Ateeb, which i do not appreciate.

  147. Alex, That doesnt change the fact his comments are moronic though does it? He should be thanking Matt for the information not trying to bully him.

    I have a feeling this whole Adebeyor thing will turn out to be just an approach from City, I pray to god

  148. Matt I was imploring people not to attack you!

    A commenter on Arseblog says a bid of £40M was made for Ade. Well…if true……

    £40M can buy Huntelaar, Chamackh and Luis Fabiano

  149. Oh yes!

    Whoops, sorry – i still have my annoyed head on a little bit.

  150. K_Rodd,

    How about putting a Thank You card to the Sun, Mirror, and Daily Mail, for the daily useless information they throw at our way? You really want Ade to leave don’t u?

  151. Sky now saying talks in early stage, that City asked Arsenal if Ade available and how much.
    Everything else, eg that Ade willing to move, Arsenal willing to sell and fee seems pure conjecture.

  152. Ateeb you are obviously on a wind up. You should make a note to yourself that wind ups are supposed to be funny.

    £40 million sounds more realistic, there is no way Arsene would of sold for £20 mill, no chance.

  153. Selling Ade would be an own goal for the board. Not to Man City….It’d be a spectacular volley into their own net from 35 yards

  154. Ole,

    Do you think its good business at 40m (if true)?

  155. Ateeb

    I want him to leave.Next season the front 2 will be RVP with Arshavin in his best position behind him.With the back up of Eddy,Super Nic and Vela.

    All we lack now is a DM

  156. Bergkamp the Legend, Ade leads the line and is vital to our prefered style of play. Robin drifts out to the wings. We must keep Ade if possible

  157. Lovely to read your memories, Flint. He was before my time. Hard to imagine RVP sharing a bottle of Tizer with you in these times.

    Note to younger posters -google ‘Tizer’.

    Ateeb, My brother. Calm down a bit, I know that you are as bored with speculation as I am but I think Matt should be cut a little slack here.

    He is hardly a bringer of strife to this site. One of the good guys I feel.

  158. Ateeb,

    Still waiting for that apology……

  159. Also, see how he has flushed out all the Ade haters.

    Turn your fire on them.

  160. Give it up, Matt. Too many naff posters out there to have you and Ateeb at one another.

  161. Maybe so Bob, but by the same token, there are enough naff posters out there as it is, without Ateeb having a pop at me.

    ACLF comments section already has a perceived reputation as a bit of an ‘in club’ and by attacking people as myself, who come on here on a regular basis, Ateebs comments don’t offer much to the contrary.

  162. Matt thanks for posting your info, Whether he goes or not I find it interesting wrestling with the tactical problems it would provide.

    Thanks for brightening a dull afternoon

  163. Bob,

    I guess it could have been another poster who went by a similiar name, Matty, perhaps. But the simliarity of the names and the style of the posts, were too uncanny. The same mysterious source they wouldn’t tell for some odd reasons.

    Relax, Matty, I didn’t accuse you of murdering someone. Don’t put it down on ACLF comment section, you should know that better by now, if you’re a regular.

  164. I will get SWP in part exchange to Ade..with so many strikers citeh may let him go..plus arsene wud tempt him to make the switch to increase his chances of playing in world cup..

    i know we have arshavin..nasri in mould of swp..but we may play 4-2-3-1 and use all of them..

    i dont think we will buy richards with so many cbs avl..unless we sell toure too..

  165. Why are you still being a wise ass Ateeb?

    Are you struggling to admit you were wrong?

    Why would i reveal my source to you anyway? You don’t know him.

    And why would i compromise his position by telling you?

    Oh, and my name is not Matty, it is Matt, and as i have said before, since when has it been your place to tell me what i can and can’t say on the ACLF comment section?

    If you are going to try to write ‘funny’ comments to try and make yourself seem more popular by knocking other people’s comments – you should start by getting your facts right.

    Oh – and i am still waiting for that apology.

  166. Joe,

    If I were an Usmanov strategist, the moment Ade oes to Man City I’d hold it up as proof the club is skint and has no ambition.

    It’d be a spectacular own goal by the board.

  167. The point that is interesting is how we are immediately faced with the Ade haters at the merest hint that he could be going.

    Why, why, why?

    Is it because they are just plain daft?

  168. adc,

    While SWP is talented and AW can possibly take him to the next level, accommodating him in the team will be tough. We have enough offensive midfielders and besides if we play 4-2-3-1 who will lead the line if Ade goes?

  169. Probably Bob.

    I did stress when i posted my comment that I, for one, do not want him to go.

    There are not too many strikers out there who can offer what Ade can.

    And apart from doing it in a public interview, was there that much wrong with what he said?

  170. What would you know? http://bit.ly/zbyIW Skysports suddenly reckons Ade had “a sold rate of return” last season!

    If Ade did go to City, watch out for how the press would report that we’ve lost our best striker since Jesus Christ.

    When he pays with Arsenal, he’s just a waste of space: http://www.skysports.com/fanzone/blogs/story/0,24015,15179_5413040,00.html

  171. What would you know? http://bit.ly/zbyIW Skysports suddenly reckons Ade had “a sold rate of return” last season!

    If Ade did go to City, watch out for how the press would report that we’ve lost our best striker since Jesus Christ.

  172. When he pays with Arsenal, he’s just a waste of space: http://www.skysports.com/fanzone/blogs/story/0,24015,15179_5413040,00.html

  173. SWP= Walcott without the blistering pace.

  174. ChrisGoona again?I wish AW won’t block Ade’s departure.The guy is a twat and a traitor. He was nobody before he arrived.

    In the 2007/8 season after scoring 30 goals, 6 of which were against Derby and 18 of them tap ins, he took a plane to Milan without telling AW. His attitude stinks and his cockiness after his 80k raise is beyond belief.

    He’s already been thrown out of the Togolese national team because of his known attitudinal problems.

    Arsenal will be better without Ade. AW should sell him for 20/25 and use funds to bring in Chamakh and an athletic DM to replace the donkey Denilson.

  175. Ole Gunner – Agree re: if Ade goes Usmanov will use it as a way to claim we are stint. Your also right about how the press will report it. Arsenal in crises major player exodus etc while ManU have lost their top scorer and Tevez replacing them with a cripple, a winger from a mid table team and a young french player who doesn’t expect to be a starter.

  176. skint even!

  177. Bodad,

    We were waiting for you. You are the life of a party.

  178. .

  179. Bodad, you are a well known prat.

    Once again an invoker of the little rule, unknown outside of a small circle of Arsenal ’supporters’ that goals against Derby Co. do not count.

    However, he is the first invoker of the idea that goals scored from two yards out count less than those scored after a mazy run past six defenders or belted in from thirty yards.

    Extraordinary.

  180. Denilson is not a donkey. He is not Xabi Alonso (yet) but he is no donkey. Also Chamakh is not a prolific goal scorer and untried. Adebeyor must be kept

  181. Nice to see that Robin got Player of the Season. Well deserved. Arsenal to the core.

    Robin Van persie…clickclickclick….Robin Van Persie….clickclickclick

  182. Obviously it is speculation, but if Ade goes, it is because Wenger thinks he can use the money to improve the team. Perhaps he will bring in another striker (Fabbiano or one of the RM cast-offs — more likely someone not on our radar), but perhaps he would use the money to go after a midfield beast…

    I understand people’s foreboding. Wenger admitted that we might have won the league in 07-08 had Henry stayed (I disagree), so in case there was any doubt — Arsene knows, but his judgment is far from infallible. How could things be otherwise with so many variables in play.

  183. Just a small point. Ade wasn’t exactly a prolific scorer before he came to Arsenal.

  184. I just hope they do what they can to keep him. People dont seem to realise what a good team player he is, and typically, it will be too late when they do realise.

  185. This rumour cannot be true, the oracle that is Myles Palmer hasn’t and isn’t forecasting it.

    If he doesn’t know with all his highly placed source’s it wont happen.

    LOL

    what a fool the man is

  186. Marc,

    It took him 1.5 seasons to become one. Do we have 1.5 seasons to spare?

  187. Anyway I till don’t believe they’ll sell Ade….we’ll see.

    To sell Ade on the day pre-season begins in earnest…

  188. RVP….Click CLick Click

  189. I’m wondering about the Sky sports sources. During the last day of the Jan transfer window sky sports sources said the Arshavin deal was definately off as Arsenal couldn’t even afford the players wages. Now their sources are saying 22 million for Ade and 175000 a week.
    Are these sources out to destabilise Arsenal and show we cannot compete financially?

  190. ala drogba ” its a fucken disgrace”

  191. I think it’s in both, Ade’s interest and Man City’s interest, to play up this story making the rounds today. Ade’s name had been absent from the headlines for awhile, and you know his agent’s catching flak. City wants Eto’o still and they’re still looking to score Tevez, so this story can maybe serve as extra motivation for those guys to hurry up and get in there before someone else (Ade).

  192. Interesting review YW – what a contrast to the modern day player and game. Now with access to superb medical cover, players recover from injuries that would have been career-ending in the past.

  193. Ole Gunner – Depends on how many goals the others strikers are getting. We know that RVP is a striker who can score goals consistently at the top level, Eduardo is world class, Bendtner is developing well, we also have Theo & Vela.

  194. Tevez has signed for Man City.

  195. SSN reports Greedy has been offered 170k a week at City.Still think he will stay?No fucking chance

    Wenger has known Greedy would be going a long time ago and with 20m plus will bring in a replacement hopefully Huntelaar.

  196. Who on Eart believes what they read on SSN? (Apart from Gooner Ted, of course)

  197. Or, on Earth, even.

  198. Marc
    RVP has never scored more than 20 goals in a season for Arsenal, and before last season his best was 13. Eduardo hasn’t played a full season for us and while he looked to be back to good form at the end of last season there must still be question marks against. Vela never really looked the part when he started league matches, he still has a long way to go. Bendtner is developing well but his best role could well be as second striker.
    In the past we were accused of not having a plan B. Ade gives us that, the high cross into the box. Only Bendtner of our other strikers has that ability.
    So losing Ade and bringing in another young unproven striker, who may well develop well in a year or so seems a really bad idea, especially as ManU will take time to change their game without Ronaldo and Chelsea having a new coach and so this season could be our best bet to win the league

  199. Gooner Ted – I think that we are willing to sell Ade and while he has constantly referred to clubs in the Milan / Barca bracket if he is offered that sort of money he will go anywhere (not sure I can blame him). What will be interesting is how City will accommodate all of the strikers they have. People are saying our CL place is under threat but if ManU don’t sign anymore players (as Fergie claimed today) I think we will finish above them.

  200. Gooner Ted
    Isn’t Huntleer going to Stuttgart?
    And he made his name in the Dutch league purely as a goal scorer, another player like Owen who offers very little unless the ball is in the opponents area.
    And he hardly seems to have impressed at RM

  201. JohnN – Who said we were going to bring in an unproven striker? My point was that Wenger has a pretty good record with strikers. If Wenger feels we can cope without Ade and can bring in a replacement with the money I don’t have a problem. Did Toga qualify for the ACN? Ade could be lost for 6 – 8 weeks at the start of next year as well.

  202. Everyone is saying we will be light upfront if Ade leaves.But they are forgetting that the second striker next season will be Andrei Arshavin.The heir apparent to Dennis Bergkamps crown.We dont need to sign a replacement for Ade.Its another CH and a DM we need to make up contenders

  203. What a lot of mileage the rumour mill has got out of this one. Still at least it’s flushed some true anti-Arsenal ’support’ out into the open. Hemlock shandies for PYBA and GT please.

  204. steww – Who or what are PYBA & GT?

  205. Bob

    Just wait and see.I suppose its all rubbish about Tevez and Terry is it?

  206. Gooner Ted – Tevez has signed subject to a medical. If Terry leaves Chelsea it will hurt them.

  207. Marc,

    We have lots of class in the attacking department. But!

    Am I going insane? Am I the only one who thinks RVP (injury-prone) Eduardo (not back to his level, not proven yet in the EPL), Bendtner (not ready yet) to be main striker, Vela (not ready yet to be main striker), Theo (not even a striker yet)…..?

  208. Give the guy a big hug…

  209. http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/62973

    interesting read so gazidis is indeed building his own team and hopefully taking much of the responsibilities off arsene i just hope that this is to benefit the manager in the long run and not a plan to get used to not having wenger in the future !

  210. Huntelaar has all but signed for Stuttgart.

  211. It certainly sounds as if Ade will go to Citeh & come on who would turn down £170K per week ? Apart from Eto`o. And John Terry.

    If they can shell that out on wages we need to stiff them for a minimum 30M in my opinion, particularly as they may well be a close rival next season – for the title.

    I would rather keep the player (especially the Ade of 2 seasons ago) but if Arsene has decided he can leave then he`s either got a replacement lined up or believes we have sufficient cover already at the club.

    I`ve not seen the lad from France, Huntelaar is a passenger outside the box & Luis Fabiano is a nutter. mmm

    No doubt the tabloids will drag up umpteen names in the morning – we shall see.

    Finally, all the best to John Hartson & family.

  212. marc – poster initials. I’m lazy.

  213. I’ve been hinting that the Ade hate is racist. Some proof:

    Boris Godunov says:
    July 13, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    Fuck your encouragement. A man should be able to perform at his best under any circumstances. We are all animals after all, some need a pat on the back, others – a whip. Ade is the one that needs a whip. Maybe it comes from his African heritage, I’m not sure.

    http://goonertalk.com/2009/07/13/vote-do-you-really-want-ade-to-leave/comment-page-2/#comment-33750

  214. on tevez joining the shiekhs this might cheer people up !

  215. I’m not surprised Ole. Attitudes to African players are steeped in the stereotypes of the 19th century. It’s sickening but so common.

  216. oh that wasnt supposed to happen !

  217. Without question, there are people out there whose feelings toward Adebayor are somewhat underpinned by racist inclinations. Racism exists and always will.

    However, it’d be equally offensive to assert that anyone critical of Adebayor or happy to see him depart is so because of their being racist. You can be one, and also NOT the other.

  218. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENMN4d0EQDI&feature=channel_page
    this is better

  219. AC – I agree. thankfully neither i now Ole has suggested that.

  220. ARSLAN – Interesting piece. The doomers should have it stapled to thier heads. I don’t think that the appointment is anything other than getting someone who can help market the “Arsenal” brand, something we are way behind other teams on. If you look at the difference in turnover between Arsenal and Chelsea they are pretty close. Chelsea’s TV money will be slightly higher than ours but our gate receipts piss over Chelsea’s. Our turnover should be considerable higher than Chelsea’s.

  221. Doh -neither I nor Ole – sorry.

  222. Steww, I should’ve added that. Neither you nor Ole G were suggesting that.

  223. they are about to discuss ada with Ray Parlour right now on 5 Live

  224. ole let it go your love for ade is schoolboy. he dont give two fucks about you, why worship him?

  225. Thank you ArseChicago. I agree — OleGunner’s quote proves very little except that someone is a racist. That’s not nice. But the idea that anyone who criticizes Ade is racist is quite ridiculous. He is, quite simply, a player who divides opinions.

  226. JohnN

    “In the past we were accused of not having a plan B. Ade gives us that, the high cross into the box. Only Bendtner of our other strikers has that ability.”

    I’m struggling to remember how often Ade actually got on the end of that high cross?

  227. ArseChicago,

    Ade’s treatment has seemed racist because players who did leave for the money are still worshipped. Flamini followed the money, fucked friendship and sodded off. He’s still worshipped

    RVP just negotiated a new contract. he’s never scored as many goals as Ade in a season. It’s being spun as RVP stayed at Arsenal for more money depsite offers. Well, guess what, Ade did the exact same thing, and he’s hated for it. What’s the difference?

  228. We need Adebeyor. I know he can be annoying but he is a great talent and it’ll be a big loss if he goes.

    Steww, I dont see what race has to do with anything when discussing football

  229. What i dont understand manrc or rather i do is even though we have not marketed the arsenal brand properly we still are the third largest football club in the world ! i think this is solely down to the football philosophy of arsene and cemented by legends like seaman,tony,henry and ofcource my hero bergkamp ! imagine what could be achieved with a whole team of specialists promoting the arsenal brand !

  230. Ole, you don’t really need proof – it’s been obvious from day one – why else has his salary been such a bone of contention when he is not one of the highest paid in a situation where there are obscene amounts being paid to some very average players without comment?

  231. 1Number10,

    Perhaps you have a really bad memory? Aren’t you generally a dullard?

  232. Personally I couldn’t give a flying fuck about a players colour, nationality or sexual preference (obviously no kids, no animals). The only thing that I’m interested in is are the players any good.

  233. ARSLAN,

    The report you linked to is about how Gazidis is hiring a Chief Commercial Officer to build Arsenal’s brand overseas. It is not about taking any responsibility off AW.

    Building the Arsenal brand is not AW’s responsibility. What Gazidis has done though is to try and secure players identified by Wenger who can add depth to our squad.

  234. kirby,

    This is why you get stick here. Daft comments like that. Ade is not my favourite Arsenal player. I actually like Eboue better.

    I just think it is insane to sell your best striker for NO fucking reason.

  235. Arslan, the Terry thing was funny, but I bet it wasn’t created by a Chelsea supporter

  236. The difference is Flamini and RvP were much more discreet in how they went about their dealings with management in terms of getting what they want.

    As for Adebayor, some of us had a big problem with how he actually played this past season. So we might ask you to forgive us for thinking that his poor performance last year had something to do with his perceived lack of desire to be with Arsenal. I can speak for only myself by saying had Flamini been under contract and talking about being at other clubs and playing for shite, I’d be equally unenthralled with him.

    So, go ahead and make your arguments for Adebayor. I just ask you don’t paint all of his critics as motivated by racist feelings.

  237. kirby,

    Instead of asking why others support Ade could you explain if Ade is good or bad for our squad and the reasons for the same?

  238. Ray reckons we should bite City’s hand off if they offer 16 million for him, says he is lazy and we could get better

  239. good god, is this debate still going on? might as well add my two cents. For me losing Ade means replacing goals, firstly, and workrate secondly, plus a host of other things that I’ll call intangible.

    Browse the archives for ACLF to find Ade’s strike-rate. Losing him means losing that rate. In my opinion no replacement coming in, from any team anywhere in the world will replace that strike rate immediately (unless it’s someone like Gerrard, lesser Ronaldo (he does score a lot of goals), Torres, etc…). So, I fail to see why it could ever be a good thing for Ade to leave. That means The Arsenal scores fewer goals, those goals won’t be replaced immediately, and thus some wins that were by a single goal become draws, draws become losses, etc… Everyone who wants to see him leave is assuming that the others will pick up the slack. This is a big assumption given our injury record and the scoring records of everyone who is not named Adebayor.

    Workrate. Ade, despite the views of many posters and definitely in my opinion, is a tireless worker who does as much off the ball as on the ball. He stretches defenses, provides a big target, chases back properly for a striker, and in general runs all over the place. We lose Ade we lose this workrate. Who on the team not named Adebayor will replace this given our injury record?

    Intangibles. If Adebayor leaves perhaps Wenger will shift formations, change style of play. This may be beneficial, we won’t know until the team tries it. Perhaps if Adebayor does leave Wenger will find a system that works better…or worse. We don’t really know and won’t unless Adebayor leaves. That will be interesting to me, to see how Wenger adapts if Ade does leave. Everything else is too akin to crystal ball reading for me to think about making a statement about it.

  240. ArseChicago,

    Fuck that. Flamini lied he was staying. He told Arsene he was staying till he went to Milan for his medical. He outright asked for more money. He left it all for MONEY.

    At least Adebayor stayed. He found a compromise.

  241. Ole,
    I should also mention that I find the apparent Flamini nostalgia more than overdone. Yeah, he was a link to a great season, but there were more important reasons for the fall last year from the year prior when he was starting along Cesc.

  242. Touche Passenal.

    Beautifully executed.

  243. Ole, always a great way to respond during a conversation. Keep it up and you’ll get all the respect you could ever hope for.

    Again, I could care less that Flamini’s gone. That was his prerogative. I don’t care if it’s Cesc, RvP, whoever. If they don’t want to be a Gunner, than so be it. Just don’t stay on the squad and go through the motions and take away from the team.

  244. Personally i believe arsenal is already a global brand ! Look at me im from the subcontinent still i know many many arsenal fans its just there are no outlets here where we can express our support for arsenal ! Football shirts are a novelty item and match days are usually watched in front of a tv if we are lucky enough to have electricity !My point is i think it will benefit arsenal a lot to engage fans in other regions of the world where potential cashcows are waiting to be exploited and marc yes i agree that arsenals global image has been created by arsenes vision and footballing style and cemented by legendary players like seaman,henry,viera aand my all time fav player bergkamp ! i just hope that arsene isint destarcted by boardroom power games and of field responsibilities especially that his contract has 2 years to go now ! i hope arsene stays i hope his contract is renewed as soon as possible !

  245. ArseChicago,

    I don’t think Ole Gunner meant every one who hates Ade is because race, but big part of is driven by “Lazy” add the “Whip” to that and now you have the full picture.

    It is very obvious we deal with players in two different ways.

    Flamini asked for money but he is not portrayed as greedy? Then he kicks us up the ass and leave, and it’s our fault because we didn’t bend
    -over and let him have his way with us?

    But if the African opens his mouth asking for more, he’s a lazy, greedy ass from Togo…he should be happy playing with the white boys even for free?

    Discreet ArseChicago? Why should it be discreet? He asked for more money like any other player. It’s that section of the fans that magnified it, blew it up, and beat him with ever since…

    It’s all based on media rumors, did he come out in public and say I want more money? I never heard him say that, I would like to see it

  246. Ole Gunner – “At least Adebayor stayed” well we’ll soon see.

  247. Dandan,

    Ray is deluded. We’ll find better players. Yes, 6 ft 4 strikers, with great pace and power, great in the air, can hold up play, great engine, good scoring record in the top leagues and international experience, Champions League experience, can score 30 in a season….sure they grow on trees.

    We can go pick up one at Tesco.

    Ray Parlour is deluded.

  248. G4E,
    Adebayor’s certainly not come out and decried the stories as Fabregas has repeatedly. My guess is fans don’t have the whole story, so we’re all likely ignorant of the important details. All I know is Wenger left him off the field the last few matches of the season. Now why was that? Just because Wenger was reading supposed Adebayor comments in The Sun? I suppose you can take up your arguments with Arsene over this whole issue too, as he seemed to draw a conclusion similar to that which many of us have drawn.

  249. The only reason Adebayor will go is for the money but I don’t think he will. I want Adebayor to stay as he has a range of skills which much could not offer.

    The only problem he has is that he doesn’t spend enough time in the centre, rather drifting away then coming inside. More play centrally will see better link up and goals.

  250. IF Ade goes, and it is still a huge, ginormous IF!

    I am not so sure we need to sign a replacement…?

    Given the attacking options we now have; Arshavin, Rosicky, Theo, Eduardo, Vela, Bendtner, Robin and the change in formation to best suit those players, I feel we will be very dangerous as an attacking force.

    We will miss Ade (IF IF IF he goes???) and the team would have to adapt. But there will be no point trying to replicate what Ade gives to the team and instead, would be better served concentrating on the qualities and talents we have in abundance; quick, mobile, very technical strikers/forwards…

    Its all speculation, of course, because this time last week, we had signed matuidi, according to Sky Sports News!

  251. Ole Gunner – The facts are simple. Arsenal will not sell Adebayor if Wenger doesn’t agree to it and Wenger will not agree to it unless the player wants to go, Wenger will not keep players who are not committed to the club.

    Basically what will happen will happen. You don’t want him to go, fair enough but if a player wants out his performances are unlikely to be of the standard we all expect.

  252. Obviously I never said everyone who wants Ade to leave is racist. I do however see what seems to me like racially motivated hate against one player.

    I don’t see anything Ade has done that’s in the worst 10% of shams we’ve seen even at Arsenal.

    Every minute you’re breathing there’s a footballers asking for more money.

    The explanation of why Ade has been treated differently holds no water.

    The player stayed. Wenger confirmed that Ade had offers for more money last summer.

    Lazy, greedy, needs a whip…deeply-held racist ideas forming how Ade has been treated.

  253. Ole;

    You take people to task for daring to slate players like Ade, etc, fair enough, but I also find the slating of Gooners like Ray Parlour deeply offensive too.

    He, unlike others with agendas, gives honest opinions, I think and he is definitely entitled to his opinion as he has Arsenal in his heart.

  254. Ray says Owen in form is a fantastic striker, you don’t lose that overnight. Yes but Ade is so lazy and greedy that he’s lost the ability to score 30 a season. NONSENSE

  255. OK, so, maybe he is deluded!

  256. Spike,

    Ray Parlour is an Arsenal legend and I love him. But he’s deluded to say we can find

    Look, Ade’s not the best striker in the world. Not in the best 10. But he’s in the best 15, and he’s the best we have.

    I don’t know why we should be in the business of selling our best players.

    How does that work?

  257. “Lazy, greedy, needs a whip…deeply-held racist ideas forming how Ade has been treated.”

    Again, you’re painting with broad strokes. Just because we disagree with you, doesn’t mean we are racists. We all watched every match last year and he was about 2/3rds the player he was the year before. Again, why did Arsene seem to send him packing at the end of the year? Is Wenger racist? Or is it that he’d been watching the same matches we were?

  258. Marc,

    You’re right. Wenger won’t sell unless the player wants to go.

    I will just be disillusioned if we keep bleeding our best players.

  259. Ole

    Interesting Moritz Volts is also on the program , he values ade at 15 million because he had one good season and then nothing, got a big raise and then, couldn’t give a monkeys.

    Their opinion not mine. Parlour is very dismissive says we are three players away from a top side and there are plenty of replacements for an overrated, one season, Ade.

  260. Yes, the Adebayor hate reasons seems a bit superficial to me. The summer before last season he made to filmed statement; one saying he wants to stay and the other, his agent will see what happens next. Around 10 minutes after each other.

    However apart from that, his mentality and quotes have been positive. He was usually the first to make positive comments about Arsenal’s season when things weren’t going well and always looked committed on the pitch even though his understanding of situations wasn’t the best.

    The only thing was that he never refuted claims.

  261. I disagree, Spike. I think Ray Parlour’s opinions should be confiscated.

  262. I think we will cope, regardless of who leaves. The club goes on, always will. Of course losing our best players isnt the way to be successful, but as I stated above, I do think we will still be an attacking force, just different.

    I seriously do not think we would need to find a replacement due to the players we have already got.

  263. look adebayor can be a good player but lets be honest he was terrible last year and nobody really knows what is going on so why get so defensive?

    he put in a few good performances don’t get me wrong.

    i didn’t like the way he did what he did in the summer but once the season started it didn’t bother me.

    he didn’t use that hold up play you say he has ole he flicked at alot of balls and lost us possesion

    maybe after getting his contract he though he was thierry but maybe not, maybe he was over confident.

    if he goes there must be a reason.

    if he goes to man city if these rumours are true we know what he wants.

    sorry ole i wasn’t trying to be daft i was saying defend the man when you know the truth about him.

    we all have our favourites…

  264. There’s a correlation between the performances of the two Arsenal sides and Adebayor’s. That’s the only reason he didn’t play as well. Not because he lost his ability.

  265. Ole Gunner, I am partially foreign, and I have never, ever felt that Arsenal supporters are racist towards the team, at the ground or anywhere else. Its saying silly things like that which instigates racial hatred

  266. ArseChicago,

    Players don’t respond to every single false accusation because they will not have anything else to do with their life.

    With the same logic, you are drawing conclusions, that Arsene drew conclusions the last 3 games of the season and you don’t really know the facts, neither do I.

    The only difference is I won’t beat the player with it because they all do it, money is everything now, no one has the change to get more money and will let it go by. Obviously the player is wanted, he proved he can be a good player and score goals, some sections of the fans just treated him poorly and unfairly…Just as Wenger actually came out and said that (no assumptions).

    I want him to stay, but now I really feel if he goes…it will be for his own good, but I’m sure it will not be for us, we would lose a good striker when there aren’t many good ones out there.

    Be realistic…

  267. Racism is so deeply ingrained in the Psyche of some people that they will find any spurious reason to justify themselves and refuse to even consider the possibility that their deep lying psychological hatred of Ade comes from the basest of human emotions. You can kid yourself as much as you like, but Ade is being judged by a different standard from others, so you shouldn’t really be surprised if some of us question where that difference is coming from. However politically correct people think they are, these attitudes are always lurking just below the surface waiting for the opportunity to show themselves.

  268. Ole Gunner – I think you do a disservice players like RVP and Eduardo when you claim that Ade is one of the top 15 strikers in the world and our best. If Eduardo can maintain his fitness during the coming season he will be a revelation and in a years time you will be complaining that Barca, Madrid, Milan or Man City are trying to take our players again.

  269. ArseChicago,

    I haven’t called anyone racist. I have said that Ade seems to have been targeted because he’s an African player. And I say that because a clear double standard has been applied to him. And I hear a lot of racist stereotypes being attached to him.

    I want someone to explain to me why we should sell Ade. None of it remotely makes sense. What has he done that’s so bad?

    I mean even in his “lazy” “greedy” not trying season he scored 6 goals in 8 champions league games to take us into the CL semi-finals for only the 2nd time.

    Even in his greedy lazy season he was the 6th best striker in the league ahead of many big names.

    Why is he first on the list of those to sell?

  270. “you are drawing conclusions, that Arsene drew conclusions the last 3 games of the season and you don’t really know the facts, neither do I. ”

    Just odd that our “best” player isn’t on the field for any great reason.

  271. Passenal, what a load of rubbish. For you maybe, but just because you have underlying racist thoughts doesn’t mean everyone else does. Some morons yes, but you wont find a more tolerant society then Britain, believe me.

  272. If Adebayor leaves, I predict we will buy another striker. It’s unlikely, though, that a new signing will be able to replace Adebayor. If anyone can replace him, it will be one of our existing players. They should not be dismissed as injury-prone, not ready, and so on. Bendtner is obviously the closest in physique to Adebayor. He stood out for me almost every time he played towards the end of last season, and I think he had a good claim to a starting place.

  273. Marc,

    sorry, I’m talking based on actual records. I love RVP he’s one of my favourite players. I love Eduardo. He’s sheer class….

    But they don’t have the same scoring record Adebayor has. They don’t have what Ade has nor do they have what he has.

    And I don’t think we can rely on them because of injury. It’s not their fault but that’s the hard-nosed reality.

    If Ade wants to leave the Arsenal, then he should fucking leave. But why should he be hounded out….that’s my question…

  274. i’m confused whenever someone says, god i wish we still had dennis, bobby and thierry or we need a world class striker you get critisized for living in the past.

    can people stop bringing up adebayor and his injury free put it on a plate for you season in 2007-2008.

    the same people go on about ronaldo only scoring penaltys and free kicks.

    hypercrites

    no doomers..

  275. There are no reasons why we should sell Ade. Unless of course the manager wishes it, or he feels Ade wants out and that we can survive and flourish with out him. And maybe, Wenger needs money for new signings?

    We wouldnt need to replace Ade, as we will be playing a different system, that does not require a big target man. Given the way the team was set up towards the end of last season and Wengers comments about fornmation changes to suit the players, like Theo, etc.

  276. If he stays, brilliant, if he goes, we will survive…. Won’t we Gloria?

  277. Passenal – If what you say is true why hasn’t Toure had the same treatment, he did after all submit a transfer request.

  278. Lets face it, its probably all SSN bullshit anyway.

  279. Look friends, I’m a deep believer in project Arsene. However, we have no chance…ZERO….if we keep losing our best players.

    We all think Man poo are weaker because they lost Tevez. Yet, Tevez’s contribution to Man poo doesn’t come near Ade’s.

    Do you think Livepool, Chelsea & Man poo fans are happy if we lose our striker with the best coring record? You’re deluded if you think they’re not happy…

    Arsenal fans laughed at Spurs losing Robbie fucking keane

  280. The Ade merry-go-round has stareted again. Guess what? With the exception of Ateeb Ole, Gris-Gris, Consols, Passenal, Alex, steww, G4E, the majority of fans have fallen for a rumor. I repeat Rumor. (Posted by an ACLFer, noless.)

    Now, it may well be true, but what is remarkable is how quick the majority are to believe. No scepticism. No “”fooled once-fool on me etc. No “lets wait for some confirmation by official sources.”

    Yet we marvel at why the media prey on Arsenal fans with made up stories, innuendo and lies. Unbelievable.

    Well I for one will stand with the partisans at ACLF and remain sceptical until proven otherwise. Where this club is concerned, we have been right 9 times out of 10 and 1 out of 10 aint bad at all.

  281. Nobody is going to come on here and admit to being racist. Perhaps one never considers oneself racist. Perhaps those who blame themselves for racism are often the least racist. To be a racist is to act as a racist, in my opinion. One’s own self-flattery is irrelevant.

  282. Arsenal fans Racist because of Ade?, do we only have one black player them.?

    Do we not sing songs for our black players every week, how the hell can you do that and then be labelled Racist

    Its ridiculous, a no brainer non subject from point my of view.
    Look at the recepyion the likes of Paddy get when they come back,
    Arsenal fans racist, god what nonsense.

  283. K-Rod – if the shoe doesn’t fit, you don’t need to wear it, but there are plenty out there who on the surface appear tolerant etc, etc, but scratch the surface and you will find them voting BNP – how many BNP councillors do we have in the UK now? If you want to kid yourself that everything is fine, feel free, but pretending that racism doesn’t exist or doesn’t motivate some people is what is a load of rubbish.

  284. kirby,

    Ade’s record for Arsenal is 1 goal every 2 games, in total. Since he became main striker his scoring record is like .6.

    We keep players for their records. It is insane to not acknoweledge his record.

    That’s another sign that it’s all irrational mob hate.

    RVP just won player of the year and he doesn’t have Ade’s goalscoring record.

  285. come on now ole tevez runs around all day long he did contribute.

  286. Ole Gunner – Fair enough, no Arsenal player should be hounded out of the club unless they are a clone of Cashley.

    The Adebayor stories actually leave me a little cold. I find it really hard to get emotional either way. If he stays great, if he goes we will replace him.

  287. kirby,

    Do we pay them the big bucks to run around or do we pay them the big bucks to bang them in?

  288. IOf course racism exists, FFS! The Met Police in London are still a breeding ground for racist thugs, big business, golf clubs, etc are still largely white male middle class haven… Racism is very much in existence and you only need to read stories in the nasty hate filled national press to see it is everywhere, they stoke that racism, then act all shocked and appalled when there are race hate crimes, etc.

  289. van persie had a better season ole.

  290. Marc at 8.50 pm – I’ve seen some pretty offensive remarks about Toure too, but just not as widespread as the Ade remarks. Toure was fortunate that he had some credit in the bank from playing the game for many years, accepting whatever Arsenal gave him and just grateful to be here (like a good boy). Being a defender, he was not in one of the ‘glamour’ roles in the team that attracts attention and with it the possibility of asking for more money to reflect that sought after status.

  291. Passenal, So what about the treatment of someone like Lampard at every ground he goes to? It is because he is white? No, its because he is annoying, and I’ve noticed alot of people find Ade annoying. Half of Arsenals support is made of different ethnic groups. Believe me when I say that no one wants Ade to leave for footballing reasons more then me, but to say people want him out because he is black is absolute rubbish, Clichy, Toure, Henry, Rocky, Wright, the list goes on and on, these players were worshiped by the crowd, so please just stop it because people wioth your views are a huge part of the racial problem in the world

  292. “Big business, golf clubs, etc are still largely white male middle class havens.”

    Fortunately, racism is not as big a problem as envy.

  293. Oh dear Polizi;

    Touch a nerve there?

  294. I hope no-one calls me a racist. None of my best friends are black, so i’m stuffed.

  295. I haven’t called anybody racist. As Passenal says, who the shoe fits let them wear it. I said that it appears quite strongly that Ade has been singled out and treated differently based on certain racist stereotypes and racist ideas.

    I heard someone say on Talksport that Ade is a poor African who won the lottery. That’s racist thought.

    Myles Palmer has written the same. Many many people utter the same things everyday.

    Why is Flamini still worshipped by many Arsenal fans? Somebody explain the difference. That crap of “Ade wasn’t discreet” doesnt work, sorry. We all know what happened with Flamini.. Offered a new contract with more money at Christman. Lied to the fans, lied to the manager, lied to the club till he went for his medical. FOR MORE MONEY: He actually left.

    RVP just negotiated a contract extension for more money.

  296. Spike, Yes of course it exists, but if you think it only goes one way you are very naive, and if you believe this adebeyor issue has anything to do with race then you are paranoid and insecure

  297. Poliziano – Envy like many emotions can be constructive as well as destructive if channeled and used in the right way.

  298. Do you play golf? Or are you a huge, faceless, conglomorate?

  299. Ole Gunner – How often do players, or anybody else for that matter negotiate a contract for less money.

  300. Its not difficul, a portion of the anti-Ade brigade is racist, a portion isn’t and a portion is probably unsure who Ade is.

    Pretty much like any x-section of society really.

  301. i’m sure tevez scored some goals ole

  302. kirby,

    I know. But his Player of the season winning performance is not as good as Ade’s best. Ade’s classified crap, RVP class.

    RVP is a better player than Ade in terms of technique. In terms of banging them in…Ade wins. RVP will sooner or later overtake him because he’s class but for now….

    Anyway, I’m just going to calm down on all this…just watch and see.

    But I am deeply disappointed to see a person mobbed…

  303. Who said Golf clubs are havens for racist people?

    I am of an ethnic minority and I love golf. My Golf club is a Gentlemens club where people play golf and socialize. The only abuse that gets thrown about is at someone who has taken three of the tee.

  304. I get what people are driving at with the African thing & obviously racism exists but I don`t believe the vast majority of Ade criticism stems from it.

    Plenty of white players at Arsenal get stick (step forward Nik Bendtner) & likewise lots of black players don`t.

    The only reason Flamini is still lauded is that he left after a relatively successful season – had Ade done likewise people would feel the same way.

  305. QoS,

    The truth is that it’s mixed as you say. My own brother can’t stand Ade, and I know he’s not racist. My brother says Ade just doesn’t fit as the face of Arsenal. That he wrongs people the wrong way and he imagines it turns people off Arsenal.

    However, the lazy greedy nonsense….

    Who invented it?

    I see people here being indignant at the use of the word racist. But sorry, there’s a popular meme amongst a session of the Arsenal fans saying we have to many French & Afro players. None of our French players is “white”. That’s an outright racist sentiment.

  306. we will see what ade wants to do in the coming weeks.

    i’m not purely against ade the football man although he could of been better last season.

    more the actions and the way he went about things, if he stays he has alot of work to do because unlike me there are some fans that won’t give in, even if we see his 07-08 form return.

  307. Paulie Walnuts

    That’s the part that gets me. He stayed.

    Isn’t it perverse that those who left, actually left are worshipped?

  308. I wonder how many of you go back to the time of all white teams at Highbury.

    I do

    We had many Irish players then and told Paddy jokes, was that racist, given that many of the crowd including my mates also telling the jokes were Irish, I don’t think so.

    Do it now and it would be, sad really

  309. I’m bored of fans judging players on how much they “run around”, especially when it comes to strikers.

    Here’s a lazy simplification:

    60 minutes into a game, let’s say two players of equal pace are going head-to-head in a flat sprint across 30 metres. One has been running around like a nutter for an hour, while the other has been playing smart, sticking to one part of the field and conserving his energy.

    I know which player my money would be on. For a striker, that extra bit of energy could make all the difference.

    Just why do English fans love players who toil away for 90 minutes?

    I’m pretty sure it’s one of the reasons Germany always have the upper hand against England. Time and again it’s the same deal: Weather the storm, wait for England to tire in the second half, then pick them off.

    Haven’t given this a once-over, so sorry if it’s nonsense.

  310. K-Rod, please show me where I said people want Ade out because he is black? I never said that, all I’ve said is that some people’s dislike of Ade is subconsciously motivated by deeply entrenched racist stereotypes of which they are not aware. That is my view as someone who has studied the subject and observed it over the many years I have lived on this planet. Racism is much more sophisticated than the simplistic way in which you describe it. In Ade’s case is is not about colour, but nationality. Think of Africa and what is the first picture that comes into your head?

  311. You need options in attack. Without a big target man you lose some options. Things don’t always go well in midfield. How often have we struggled to try and pass our way through a packed defense?
    So if we try to go wide, a ball along the ground is more likely to be cut out than a high cross.
    It’s great when Theo makes the little diagonal runs into the box to pull the ball back to someone running in to side foot in, but if that is our only option it is easily countered.
    And ok we can play AA as a second striker. So where does RvP play, on the wing where he is much less efffective as he doesn’t really play the lone striker well?
    Yes I’m sure AW will come up with some sort of plan to compensate for Ade’s loss if he goes. But we seem to be in danger of becoming a team with half a dozen second strikers but no-one to effectively lead the line.

  312. Ole, I was actually told by a spud fan that the problem with Arsenal and the reason we haven’t won anything is that we have too many black players – so somewhere this issue is being discussed for him to come out with that comment.

  313. The lazy greedy moniker has racist overtones I would agree but i’m not sure the motivations are always racist…(in some case they probably are) despite it being an insanely stupid stereotype and one more usually labelled at those of caribbean extraction than African.

    I think sometimes people can endorse and re-inforce racist stereotypes without it being “intentional”. Often it can just be misguided and a little well…thick.

    More offensive are the Patricks of this world with their French African remarks. Thats pure racism.

    If Ade is lazyt then fine prove it, show me the stats that indicate he doesn’t work for the team but to claim its because of his heritage is as Ole says an outright racist statement.

  314. Haha! So, the golf club is not a haven for racists then, just chauvinists!

  315. nikki b reaped the benefits of moving alot more oneofus it it means you will get more involved and we will see the effort they put in

    if what your saying is the case why dont we leave theo up front tell him to prance like a fairy till the defence get tired whip a ball into the box and theo will get there first and we score.

    its football mate its not american football.

  316. Good comment @ 9.19 pm OneofUs. David Hillier actually made that point on the Fans Forum on ATV last season when yet another caller was on about the ‘lazy’ stereotype. When I mentioned that on here I was ridiculed by someone for suggesting there might be something in that view point. I still remember TH having to lead the line alone against Barca in the CL final and believe that when he had that one on one opportunity with the goal keeper, he was too exhausted to make the best of it for that very reason.

  317. Passenal, …..Lions, is that racist?

    Can I just say that I am sorry if it seemed like I was being aggresive towards you, its just a subject I feel strongly about and which I feel a big percentage of people use as an excuse not to make an effort.

  318. Prance like a fairy? Can we please not use homophobic phrasing :-)

  319. oneofus;

    Ade’s game is based mainly on work rate and effort, running defenders ragged…

    So, what was your point?

    As for the comment about why do English fans rate work ethic so much? The least said about that the better.

    Im just glad jonjon doesnt post on here anymore!

  320. It takes a lot to convince me people are racist, I always like to believe the best of people till I get proof to the contary.
    However I do think some people are culturally intolerant.
    By this I mean that they assume characteristics we English consider virtues are universally accepted as such.
    For example, if someone kicks Eboue hr falls over holding his leg. Thats not the British way, you show a stiff upper lip and get on with it, don’t let anyone know you have been hurt. But why should Eboue have to act the British way? And perhaps it is easy to interpret Ade’s bodylanguage as not trying when he is tired and conserving energy.

  321. I regret using the word racist and apologise. It’s like calling someone Nazi or fascist. Nobody ever reacts to that well…most of us are not racist, nor fascist or Nazi.

    So I apologise for flaming an already enflamed issue.

    But I stand by my point. I cant prove anything, so I actually sound like an idiot right now and I know that.

    However, I have seen so many comments about Ade that are outright racist. I pasted one above. And my goal was only to show that there is an element of racism in this thing.

    I have kep asserting that I have not called anyone racist apart from the commenter (on another site) who said something clearly racist.

    So I stand by my point but I admit I should have let it to pointing out the actual question and might have done better to keep implying rather than making anti-Ade folks indignant.

  322. Spike, sorry its not a gentlemans club, there are many woman who play as well

  323. JohnN;

    Very true, you only have to watch pre and post match discussions on Sky sports and in the media to see constant references to these old cliches about it being a man’s game, getting stuck in, not showing emotion etc.

    FFS! When cesc was accused of spitting, the ex-spud twat even said he would rather cesc had “chinned” the fella than spat at him! Then of course there was the outrage when Vieira spat at the odious Ruddock.. While Steveie G gets a free run on two footed over the top leg breaker lunges…

    Well, it is a man’s game

  324. K-Rod;

    No problems mate. My comment about golf clubs was a bit flippant, although I do stand by the comments about the police and multi nationals etc.

  325. Hey, that was a bit, um, spiky.

    “Ade’s game is based mainly on work rate and effort, running defenders ragged…”

    I think I disagree. I reckon Ade’s game involves playing on the shoulder of the last defender. He gets caught offside a lot because of this, but it’s what he does best. That kind of game means he has to be quite strict with his positioning.

    I’m not really that bothered about strikers who spend the whole match chasing after the ball. Forwards pressing defenders makes more sense if you play a 4-3-3, because three forwards can share the burden, but Ade’s usually part of a front two, and sometimes he’s all by himself.

    Meanwhile this reverence for toil in football is definitely an English downfall. Sorry, I’m trying to dig up the quotes from somewhere.

  326. OOU;

    If you dont think Ade’s game is has a lot to do withn him, putting in a lot of effort, seflless running off the ball, dragging defenders out of position, etc… you must be getting confused with another player.

  327. @ passenal you’re quite right people choose what they see and things aren’t quite as clear beneath the surface.. it astounding though how many of us want our big striker out.. Berbatov was bought for a handsome amount purely for his size and hold up play.. adebayor has pace and is one of the top 5 big strikers in the world .. big strikers are very precious right now in football, never mind pacey ones..none of the other big strikers would except the financial package that Ade is on yet we delude ourselves by calling him derogatory names when players like Terry receive praise for their lack of ability..

  328. Oh and about work rate etc… I think pep Guardiola made that very thing an integral part of his team, even fining and punishing players for not giving their all, even in training.

  329. If he goes, we will definitely miss that Cesc/Ade combination. Ade hangs on the shoulder of the last defender and Cesc has the option of the ball over the top when there is no way through the midfield. How many great goals have we seen from this very move including the wonder strike against Villarreal?

    However, I trust AW to make the decision for the right reasons and the team to adjust to whatever changes might be necessary as a result. I’m just sorry that the haters will see this as a triumph for their cause (whatever their motivation).

  330. Passenal;

    I am surprised Ade’s detractors dont simply just mention him head butting his own team mate as evidence to get rid?

  331. That’s what I would do…

  332. Spike,

    Ade’s game is partly that. But it’s also that he’s so good in the air yet fits into our passing game. A rare combination for a big player. And he has pace. And he’s very strong. And he’s determined (as shown in how much he’s improved). And he’s experienced. And he’s the perfect age for a striker. He can be an outlet for our game in so many ways. The Brain might have more to contribute on this from the tactical point of view.

    It’s that this kind of striker that he is, there are very few of them in world football.

    Name 5 strikers who combine those things I’ve listed. They are not many.

    But I don’t even have blinkers about Ade. He’s no Fernando Torres. But he’s an effective player….

    He’s a player who will score 8 headed goals, 6 team goals, 3 penalties and 4 spectacular goals. He’ll score 20 goals a season injury-free…

    If Eduardo’s injury had never happened…we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation….but Ade’s still our best established players.

    Guys, I promise it’s because I think we can’t gamble on next season. You never know how these things affect a team. We have a young team. Ade has a lot of mates in the team. You never know how these things affect team dynamics….

    Anyway, I’ll trust Wenger to do the right thing. If Ade wants to leave, then he should leave. Unless it’s a ridiculous bid, we shouldnt sell, or wnat to sell.

  333. Sometimes a players physique & gait count against them when accusations of laziness are levelled.

    Tall , gangly players rarely appear to be putting in effort & clumsiness is often mistaken for laziness.

  334. Ole;

    Yeah, I take your point. Ade is an attacking option. The thing is, for me, he wouldnt even be a 1st choice next season, injuries permitting.

  335. Meh, can’t find the quote. Sure it was Beckenbauer or someone.

    “If you dont think Ade’s game is has a lot to do withn him, putting in a lot of effort, seflless running off the ball, dragging defenders out of position, etc… you must be getting confused with another player.”

    We’re at cross-purposes here, I think. Probably my fault.

    What you described is playing on the shoulder of the last man, a normal shift for a striker anywhere. I’m not suggesting he doesn’t do that. He’s no workhorse though; that’s a label that dismisses what he really brings to the team.

    I was talking about pressing off the ball – Tevez and Rooney-style.

  336. @ spike a rash answer would be that bendy was so shocking at the time that he looked like he needed a bit of a head butt, something to do with his danish heritage.. okay that’s enough from me.. one more thing, does anybody know if David Bentley drives a Bentley?

  337. OneOfUs;

    Ah, OK buddy! Cool! We got there in the end, thats all that matters!

  338. Spike,

    That is what I would love….for Ade to be an option but not first choice. it would mean we’re firing.

    What I would hate would be for us to have to re-invent the wheel in attack.

    As if we don’t have enough problems fixing midfield and defence.

  339. Yeah, I was responding to Kirby’s 8:57.

    Still, I stick by my English slur. I’ll find what I’m looking for eventually.

  340. Ole, I actually think Bendtner could turn out to be a better player than Ade in the long run but he’s not ready yet. I also agree that if Eduardo had not got injured and was more established in the team, I would probably be less anxious about losing Ade. But the other strikers are too much of an unknown quantity for me to feel confident that we won’t miss him if he goes. Arsene gambled on Rosicky’s fitness last season and he never recovered in time to make a contribution, hence my worry of getting rid of a striker who knows our game and has so much to offer when on form.

  341. Passenal….50 comments and I dont manage to say what you manage in one. That’s my exact take on this. Even Eduardo didn’t get into the flow of the Premiership until December. It’s not so much a worry about the quality of replacements (though I fear it’s too late to get a quality replacement-Chamakh not this year) it’s that new signings never bed in immediately. Very rarely does it happen.

    And we have no right to expect that the other strikers will just seamlessly carry Ade’s weight. I mean, it’s more realistic to expect Ade, RVP & EDS to score 20 each to bag 60 than it is to expect EDS & RVP to score 30 each.

  342. @ Paulie Walnuts 10:03 pm .. I subscribe to that theory together with a friend of mine .. we call it being a baller like the basketball players because of ones size one may seem blase and cumbersome in comparison with others.. I remember one of the games that Diaby was really ineffective in, in the passed season when, he was playing in the left and he really did look lazy.. only to find out that at the end of the game he had run 11 km the second most only to cesc on the day.. player’s of this type have something which can be described as a “deceptive slowness”

  343. Whats all this then, is Ade off??

  344. HHHmm…Cant see Bendtner ever being as good as Ade. I think you would need some pretty good specs to see that.

  345. Oh dear oh dear oh dear

  346. Three hundred and forty odd comments of fuck all.

  347. People are too polite on this blog now. I blame YW for going with the ‘flow’. Call a fucker a fucker is what I say.

  348. Don’t worry, Duke. Nothing’s happened.

    Don’t dismiss Bendtner. He’s a very talented player. We’re going to see a lot more goals from him.

  349. I think that ACLF is teetering on the edge. Arseblog has gone with LeGrove. ACLF could follow. ‘Respect’ is more important than support these days, even if your adversary is a tosser. Doesn’t work. You have to cut the fuckers down.

    Ade is an Arsenal player.

    If and when he is not an Arsenal player is the time to decide to announce your thoughts.

  350. The day RvP is announced as Arsenal’s player of the season, everyone on ACLF discusses Ade. Very impressive.

  351. I fucking hate Arsenal ’supporters’.

  352. “Ade is an Arsenal player.

    If and when he is not an Arsenal player is the time to decide to announce your thoughts.”

    True, and that had been my intention, but I’m weak and I got sucked into the ‘debate’!

  353. I blame Matt.

  354. Your are OK, Passenal, it is not you. You know that.

  355. Naaah, Matt is OK. He is one of the good guys.

  356. Having just re-watched this year’s season review, I can’t dispute RVP as our player of 08/09. The guy’s pure class and i’m over the moon that he’s so determined to win things with us over taking a pay rise elsewhere.

  357. Vince, the statements he has made over the last few days are world shattering in the current climate. But hardly anyone notices. Least of all Arsenal supporters. If we can’t really get behind players like RvP then there is no hope for us as supporters.

  358. RvP is a worthy winner of player of the season; but since a man who played only 15 games came second, I lost interest in the result.

  359. Oh behave yourself Frank. Today it’s abviously come out that Ade could be orff. What do you expect. We all knew RVP was our best player last year.

  360. Yes. That is very illuminating, PZ. As I said I hate Arsenal supporters. It is the reason why AIC and Joe got consigned to the wastebin. No longer required.

  361. I got disillusioned by the whole player of the season vote when AA came second. Still, it was great to see the final part of his video, but now I get why he was so enthusiastic about the fans in the two parts they showed last week; he already knew he was No.1 (well, obviously).

  362. Fuck off, DG.

  363. It was all one interview, OoU.

  364. I think we should build the team around RVP. He obviously is a gooner at heart.

  365. I agree entirely Frank. He’s one of those players who after every interview you read with him you can’t help but like him more. On the whole i’d say we’ve got a largely likeable squad which not many EPL clubs can boast…although i’m yet to read anything in depth with Thom Vermaelen who looks like an actual serial killer. Even the smile he’s pulling in his profile photo on the official site creeps me out a bit.

  366. I agree with OG. This man carries Dennis Bergkamp’s torch and will lead the way.

  367. Thomas is going to be a great player for us, Vince. You can feel it can’t you?

  368. I hope so. Aside from Bischoff my short time as what I would describe as a “full time” supporter has yielded few flops transfer-wise. I think even Silvestre probably offers much behind the scenes that we don’t witness on the pitch.

  369. Don’t agree with you about Vermaelen, Vince. I thought he came across well in his first interview.

  370. Like I said Poliz, yet to really read/watch anything with him. I’m basing my terror purely on his scary appearance, which I guess is a pretty useful aesthetic for a defender.

  371. Strange. I didn’t find him scary.

  372. I know, Frank, that’s what I’m saying. He knew last week that he’d won the award. His affection for the fans seemed unusually enthusiastic in the first two parts, but it was kind of explained today in the 3rd installment, which was a bit like an acceptance speech.

    It’s late here, so I’m probably not making sense.

  373. LOOK INTO HIS COLD DEAD EYES! He looks like he eats babies.

  374. You need to get some sleep, Vince.

  375. There you go, Vince:

    http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/images/jun_09/gun__1245425445_vermaelen_thomas2.jpg

    Bright eyed and proud to be at Arsenal.

  376. Well, you need to look at a picture when he is not smiling Poliziano. I prefer to say he’s not scared rather than saying he’s scary…how is that?

  377. hopefully Theo will one day replace his twinkly eyes with those of a dead eye hip shooter..

  378. In that photo it looks like he’s being held at gunpoint and forced to smile. It’s like when Moe attempts to rebrand the Tavern as a family restaurant in The Simpsons and has to sing to children. It’s not natural.

  379. He will be called “Theo the kid”

  380. Does this look scary?

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Thomas_Vermaelen.jpg

  381. He looks a bit like a Kray in that photo.

  382. Compare with Rio Ferdinand before he had his hair cut:

    http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs20/f/2007/290/9/4/predator_by_nebezial.jpg

  383. He needs some kind of lip salve, but aside from that he looks slightly less like a trained killer yeah. You know I don’t genuinely think he’s some kind of human death machine right? You don’t have to prove it with photos!

  384. Pz, OOU.

    He’s not blue eyed….

    linking that to the racist topic from before..the reason I keep talking about 6 ft 100 blue-eyed centre half is that some actual fan actually told me that on the train. He said we need a 6 ft 100 blue-eyed centre half. Someone who’d fling his head at every ball…

  385. Has Arsenal borrowed too much?

    Robert Peston | 00:00 AM, Tuesday, 14 July 2009

    I’ve obtained a copy of the financial analysis of Arsenal that was made by the investment bank Lazard Brothers in support of Alisher Usmanov’s proposal that the club should raise up to £150m in a rights issue.

    It’s a chunky 35 page document. But its conclusion can be summed up very simply: Arsenal has too much debt to pose a serious challenge to Europe’s biggest clubs; or to use the jargon, it is over-leveraged, too thinly capitalised.

    This is a verdict that has been rejected by Arsenal’s board, which has been advised by NM Rothschild.

    The North London club’s directors argue that paying down debt would have only a marginal impact on the availability of financial resources.

    Of course, as an Arsenal-supporting BBC journalist, I couldn’t possible take sides in this dispute between the Uzbekistani plutocrat and Arsenal’s directors.

    But some of you will be interested in Usmanov’s point of view.

    Here are a few bullet points from the Lazard document:

    1) It believes that Arsenal’s earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) will fall from between £55m-60m in 2009 to £35-40m in 2010. The most striking contributor to this squeeze that it cites is a 12-14 per cent increase in costs to £179m “as a result of players being compensated for tax changes and a number of step ups in wages for individual players”.

    2) It predicts that cash flow will fall by more than that because of some pre-payments on assorted deals that were taken in 2007.

    3) It says that Arsenal’s fans are already paying 40 per cent more than the average for the big four English clubs for match tickets and 24 per cent more for season tickets – implying there’s little scope to increase gate revenues, especially in a recession.

    4) It calculates Arsenal’s gross average annual spend on new players as £18m, compared with £37m for the big four; and the net annual spend, including sales, as precisely zero, compared with a £20.2m big four average

    5) Perhaps most germanely of all, it fears that redevelopment of Arsenal’s former Highbury stadium into luxury apartments may not turn out to be profitable – and that refinancing £140m of property-related debt over the next couple of years will be neither cheap or easy.

    So Usmanov – the second-biggest shareholder in Arsenal with a 25 per cent stake – suggests that investors stump up a maximum of £150m via a rights issue of new shares.

    This would provide additional funds for Arsene Wenger to augment the playing squad, and/or pay off some of the property debt, and/or pay down a substantial portion of the £242m of separate debt incurred to fund the development of the new Emirates stadium.

    As I say, Arsenal’s board has said no to all this, following detailed scrutiny by bankers from Rothschild – which included those bankers sounding out the most important individual at the club, Arsene Wenger.

    The advice to the board from Rothschild was;

    a) paying down the Emirates-related debt would save a maximum of £5m a year;

    b) there are better ways to rehabilitate the Highbury redevelopment, including a putative cunning plan under negotiation right now – and even if the worst came to the worst, there should be no direct financial contagion to the club, since the providers of the property loans have no recourse to the footballing assets;

    c) perhaps most controversially, the chaps from Rothschild don’t believe Arsene Wenger is seriously constrained by lack of finance in his ability to develop the playing squad – and, more importantly, they don’t believe that he feels fettered (if you see what I mean).

    All of which would be described by some as a courageous blocking tackle: turning down equity finance during a sharp recession, and while the worst conditions in living memory for property developers prevail, well that’s quite ballsy.

  386. [...] REVIEW: In The Shadow Of A Giant – Mel Charles Think of Mel Charles and it is pretty much a racing certainty that one of the first things that will pop into your head [...] [...]

  387. “Adebayor’s departure is likely to be welcomed by some Gunners fans who see him as disruptive.

    Indeed one supporters’ group even put together a joke brochure – similar to the one produced by Michael Owen’s agents – in a bid to see him leave North London”

    This a quote from the Sun, we a joke we made of ourselves?

  388. That Denilson wasn’t voted Arsenal player of the year, or that he wasn’t even in the top four, is a travestry of justice. Denilson gave us the most in an otherwise bad year.

  389. Kenyan

    The reason was Denilson was not in the top 4 players of the season is simple.He”s Crap

  390. Greedy can stay at Arsenal for 80k a week or go to Citeh for 150k a week. I think he will stay…………NOT

  391. hopefully end of the stupid discussion !

  392. @Arsene.

    Everyone was crap last year.

    Dennilson was a top four player last year if not the best player

  393. oh fuck off u troll !

  394. inteneded at arsene ! not wenger arsene though he stays

  395. @ARSLAN

    Tell it like it is!!!!!

    @Arse – N

    Denilson and Song held that Mid together when the whole team was in the treatment room. That boy played more matches than anyone else. I think more minutes than even Almunia.

    And Almunia is a Goal keeper FFS

  396. I had three picks for player of the season, only one of whom made it in to the top four; but I don’t grudge Nasri and Almunia their recognition. If none of my choices had been recognised, I wouldn’t have complained. All of our players who performed regularly in the first team made an important contribution throughout the season. The only player whose place in the top four I do resent is Arshavin. He’s an excellent player; and if he had played as well for 45 games as he did for 15, he would have been a contender, although in my opinion he still ought not to have won. I think there is a good chance he will be our best player next season. The fact is, though, that his total contribution was too slight for him to be considered for player of the season, and his inclusion in the top four is a kick in the teeth for all the other players. A vote for Arshavin is like choosing “no suitable candidate” in a government election. By having Arshavin in second place, all the players below him are rated at less than nothing, and something, it seems to me, is even taken away from the winner. I suspect that those who voted for Arshavin did so in an attempt to send a message to Arsene Wenger. They needn’t have bothered. We all heard their true message long ago.

  397. @ Poliziano,

    Are you nuts? when Arshavin joined we were in fifth place and we were shit. After a few games with him in the team, we started playing well and took the last champions league spot.

    Arshavins contribution was massive, without him we’d have no Champions league football and maybe no Fabregas. He was our player of the season without a doubt, this is also partly due to the fact the rest of the squad had such an average season by modern Arsenal standards

  398. I totally agree Poliziano.

  399. Wow – who would of known posting about a phone call i received would of led to a debate on racism?

  400. Just like Madrid Mad city are doing their bit to ruin football.

  401. Mandanda,

    You always know that an analysis is BS when it makes a comparison and doesn’t back it up. If I said Mandanda is shorter than Andrey Arshavin, and I only tell you Andrey Arshavin’s height, then telling you Andrey’s height proves nothing.

    The article says Arsenal can’t compete even with clubs who earn less than us (like Liverpool) and that’s obvious BS.

    Usmanov and his media mouthpieces should show us how those other clubs are financing their player acquisitions. Those of us who care about fact and data, have actually seen PIK loans increase at Liverpool and Man United. They’re borrowing to buy players.

    How Usmanov can claim we have too much debt, when clubs that take in slightly more revenue than us have 4 times our debt payments?!

    Do a comparison, Usmanov and media mouthpieces! Mr Peston of the BBC, can you compare Arsenal’s finances to those of our competitiors? Why is your piece missing the key piss of information that would establish its validity?

    There’s a big Usmanov shit-selling campaign going on.

  402. Absolutely bang on, Ole. Plus that piece was written by a self proclaimed Arsenal ’supporter’.

    Note the way he tells us, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever that we are ‘over leveraged’ compared to the rest of the ‘big four’.

    The man is a charlatan. Dug up by the BBC to write another anti Arsenal story or to keep the band wagon rolling for Usmanov. The BBC used to have some self respect.


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