Ready for your daily dose of high blood pressure? Insert your own rant here as Joan Laporta is accused of tapping up Cesc. It was of course entirely predictable since the, ahem, news that Cesc has apparently agreed to sign if Sandro Rosell wins the Presidential elections next summer. In fact, it would be of no surprise if a formal bid were made by the Catalans on political grounds even if they know that it will not be accepted since it will be easy for Laporta to run around chanting, “Liar, liar, pants on fire“, when Rosell makes his claim again next summer.
The usual specious reasoning from Laporta was applied, trotting out the ‘Barcelona is in his DNA‘ crap as if a heavily guarded and highly secret lab created the player. I wish I had been a fly on the wall when Laporta first took over as President of the club. Apparently he was left a file about Fabregas by his predecessor with a note that said words to the effect, ‘You will have to explain how this one got away‘ which also goes a long way to explaining Laporta and Barcelona’s obsession with bringing Cesc back, ahem, home as they like to put it.
Elsewhere, Arsene has reportedly made his observations about current players who are on the receiving end of flirtatious flutterings from others:
Inter have not inquired about Gallas, just like Bordeaux has never asked for [Mikael] Silvestre. Adebayor? In my opinion he will remain. Chamakh? He might be a valid acquisition in case of a departure.
You can read into that what you will. The arguments will no doubt go something along the lines of ‘it’s hardly a ringing endorsement that those players will stay‘. External comments from Mr20% do not help situations since the perception is that the player is behind the agitation. In some cases that may be true, in others not. However, with Adebayor the silence from the player or lack of affirmation of his desire to stay should not be construed as desire to leave Arsenal. He may want to and it is indeed rare for Wenger to obviously state that a certain player is a replacement. One thing seems to be certain, Adebayor’s eventual departure from Arsenal – I cannot honestly see him being at the club for the start of the 2010/11 season – is as tortuous as those of Vieira and Henry.
One thing that appears reasonably certain is that Wenger does not intend to sell at least two of the three, if not all of them. Were his inclination to divest the club of the players, I suspect the word ‘yet’ might have been appended to the end of his comments about Gallas and Silvestre. As for Adebayor, if it is Arsene’s opinion that he will stay, he will stay unless a suitable offer is made. Every player has their price but the way in which this transfer window has been conducted, a number of clubs seem to have Spanish banks burning a hole in their pockets due to the extravagance of Real.
There was good news in Jack Wilshere signing an extended contract. As much as there is a clamour for today, tomorrow must not be forgotten. Forgetting is something I would like to do about Sheriff Fatman but it seems to be the case that he will not bugger off quietly. The Board meeting yesterday ended without a decision on the much vaunted – by his supporters anyway – Rights Issue. The most perceptive sentence in that article is ‘with concerns persisting among some directors as to the real motives behind the plans‘. Here is a clue for them: he wants to buy the club. Don’t let him.
’til Tomorrow.























Morning all.
By: dukegoonem on July 3, 2009
at 10:50 am
I’d happily pay for Sylvestre’s Easy Jet flight to Bordeux but it’s essential that we keep Gallas & Adebayor if we want to win anything this year unless we’re willing to buy an already established premiership player in replacement. It takes time for players to adapt to this league, Henry & Bergkamp being the prime example. We can’t afford to bring in a centre forward & lose Adebayor. The solution would be to buy another centre forward now & keep Adebayor until x-mas atleast… thus giving the new boy an opportunity to get used to the playing conditions…
By: rev on July 3, 2009
at 10:56 am
Oh, and Owen to Man UTD??? Who’s have thought it!
By: rev on July 3, 2009
at 10:57 am
Really hope Wenger comes out with a press statement to accuse Barca of tapping up along with a supporting statement about how he was sure that FIFA would do nothing about it. Put the ball in Bladder’s court. Whatever that means.
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 11:01 am
What about Kolo Toure, is he going or staying?
By: kenyan gunner on July 3, 2009
at 11:03 am
To be honest, a fit Owen is exactly what United need – someone who makes no bones about goalhanging and is capable of scoring a goal every other game. Even with his injuries, he still scored once every three games for Newcastle. The staying fit bit is the problem.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on July 3, 2009
at 11:03 am
Nothing will happen… Real Madrid or Barca should elect OJ Simpson as president just to keep up appearances.
By: rev on July 3, 2009
at 11:06 am
Nothing well happen even if he does Alex and then he will look like a cry baby. It’s ridiculous that clubs clearly tap the player in public and nothing is being done by useless FIFA.
===
“Here is a clue for them: he wants to buy the club. Don’t let him.”
That’s exactly what I say, don’t let him change anything for the sake of a few millions. With the current prices of players, how many players a 100 million will buy? And then what happens next year?
By: Gunner4Ever on July 3, 2009
at 11:07 am
i guess so… YW. maybe Fergie is looking to fill the void left by Ole Gunnar Solsjar
By: rev on July 3, 2009
at 11:07 am
I think Alex red nose wants Owen as a bench warmer for Berba and Rooney? Specially if he’s on a free, it’s not bad to have Owen as a backup.
By: Gunner4Ever on July 3, 2009
at 11:10 am
I am more worried about Eboue – he hasn’t gone yet!
By: TC on July 3, 2009
at 11:12 am
The Usmanov camp is making a huge racket about investing massively in this team. However, with the arrival of Vermaelen we only now need to replace any players who would want to leave this summer. That will not entail high investment. Further, unlike many other teams we have many future star players playing in our second team who cant be kept out of the first team for too long.
Last year, Arsenal posted a net profit of 36 million odd and this year with the additonal money from reaching the SF of the CL and FA cup and other windfall revenues from sell on clauses of ex players, most analysts expect an even higher profit than last year. Those profits are available in case any emergency requirement comes up.
The rights issue is as needed as Sheriff Fatman. Not at all.
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 11:17 am
Laporta = Tosser!!!!
By: JSP on July 3, 2009
at 11:23 am
Wenger unequivocally said that we will have the same squad next year.
Adebayor is on vacation, and the last word from him is that he wants to stay at Arsenal.
This is why Wenger doesn’t talk I can imagine. Whatever he says, people will make their own conclusions.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 11:24 am
i think Ebouie can do a job for us, there are times when he is sensational, but there are also times when he is sensationally sh*t…
bit like Spurs…
By: rev on July 3, 2009
at 11:26 am
To be fair to Eboue rev, I think he was trying too hard against spurs, but since then he has really knuckled down and played well. I love his driving runs into the opposition half – their defenders look terrified and resort to fouls as the only way to stop him. He has also made some good assists as he has an eye for a pass when his confidence is up.
By: Passenal on July 3, 2009
at 11:31 am
absolutely, i’m a fan to be honest. I think he’s an incredibly entertaining player, even when he’s having a mare…
By: rev on July 3, 2009
at 11:34 am
Eboue with his occasional strong runs and great crosses counterbalanced by periodic massive lapses into insanity versus Walcott with his occasional strong runs and great crosses counterbalanced by a complete absence of positional awareness and frequent John Chiedozie-like running out of pitch with the ball not under control.
You choose…..
By: clockendgooner on July 3, 2009
at 11:40 am
Cant we talk about the tennis, all this shite about if players come or go is very tedious unlike the tennis.
By: dukegoonem on July 3, 2009
at 11:41 am
Sure dukegoonem, lets talk about how interesting and engaging Andy Murray is. He is the opposite of aloof is’nt he!?
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 11:46 am
For me the comments about Ade were fairly simple…basically that if he wants to leave, we’ll sell him immediately to maximise his sell-on value.
By: Queen of Suburbia on July 3, 2009
at 11:50 am
Alex
The words affable, warm, humourous, are always in included in any description of him..
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on July 3, 2009
at 11:54 am
Lol. The match between him and Roddick today should be damn good. Looking forward to it.
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 11:59 am
btw thanks Yogi.
By: Queen of Suburbia on July 3, 2009
at 12:01 pm
QoS
I’m guessing that was for an earlier comment? If so, on behalf of the male of the species, I would like to humbly apologise.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on July 3, 2009
at 12:05 pm
I’m not sure Usmanov’s motives are as simple as “he wants to buy the club”; the numbers don’t add up. A rights issue offers shares pro-rata to your existing shareholding. Arsenal is currently valued at £432m, so even if the Company were to offer new shares to shareholders at a 30% discount (probably about the right level to get interest), raising £100m would involve issuing 1 share for every 4 held.
Now if we assume that Stan would take up all the new shares he was entitled to, (it would seem strange for him not to) and nobody else took up any (very unlikely), he would still only end up with 36.7% of the enlarged company; a big stake but a long way off control, especially with Stan holding 28.3%. He would however have to make an offer to all shareholders as a result (it is a rule), so he might pick up some more shares, especially if Lady Nina sells out. that might take him over 50%, but assumes that Stan doesn’t also offer comparable terms.
Stan appears to be in for the long term and does not need to sell, so Usmanov could not take control if Stan puts his cash in.
Danny Fiszman is maybe the key. He sold a third of his shares to Stan recently. Would he plough this money back into the Club by subscribing for his share of the rights issue? Between him and Stan they own 44.4% of the club, but how committed is he? Would he sell out the balance of his holding to Stan concurrnet with the rights issue, and Lady Nina doing the same to Usmanov?
You would then end up with Stan and Usmanov owning about 45% each, with the balance held by small shareholders, the club being financially very strong, and the new money permanently in the club. Unlike the situation that Liverpool and ManU find themselves in, this would be permanent capital, not a house of cards propped up with debt. This is not the apocalyptic scenario of Usmanov taking control and using it as his personal plaything like has happened at Chelsea.
Arsenal have borrowed over £400m to cover the cost of the Emirates and redevoping Highbury etc. It would be normal for such a project to be part financed by a Company also issuing new shares.
By: Nick on July 3, 2009
at 12:05 pm
Duke, I thought you hated wimbledon.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 12:06 pm
Nick
The problem with the rights issue is that it was not presented in such simplistic terms by Sheriff Fatman when it was announced. He attempted to curry favour with supporters by (a) suggesting that a portion be made available at a reduced price to encourage them to buy in, and, (b) the money be used for transfers.
Now neither, in theory, holds any immediate problems except that Usmanov has offered to underwrite the issue. Assume that the 30% were set aside for supporters, if these are not taken up, Usmanov has to buy them and therefore automatically increases his stake in the club, possibly to a controlling level.
For me, he lacks sufficient credibility to offer this without having ulterior motives.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on July 3, 2009
at 12:13 pm
Nick,
I doubt if either Kroenke or Usmanov are the types to be satisfied with part or co ownership of Arsenal. Kroenke’s past record suggests that creeping acquistions of shares followed by total control and Usmanov’s record suggests the same.
Usmanov has the cheek to already ask for dividends on his ‘investment’ in the club! My guess is that it will be a war between the two for outright control.
The challenge for the club would then be – a) Say no to bids which would load debt used to acquire the club on its books ala the Glazers. b) Preferably keep a multiple ownership model to avoid excesses from any single owner and retain a board with some semblance of local ownership and control.
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 12:19 pm
Poliziano,
I fukin hate wimbledon, it is just a bunch of robots running around now. But talking about if Ade will go to Milan or if Cesc will go to Barca is just as boring as the tennis now.
By: dukegoonem on July 3, 2009
at 12:21 pm
I was going to refer to it as the Last Rights Issue, but Nick may have just changed my mind. At least for now anyway. Was Alisher actually at the meeting? Maybe it was a teletu…telepa…teleconference with Matt Lucas with a zip up the back sponge foam Usmanov outfit to give substance to the shadowy figure at the other end of the phone.
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 12:21 pm
Oh but hang on YW and Alex have got me swinging the other way…oh..er…I mean…well..not you know.. not literally…
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 12:23 pm
Good point Yogi. Usmanov has asked for a portion of the shares for small investors to be made available at a significant discount to market price but due to prevailing economic conditions how many of those small investors would or could actually exercise their right to buy to shares?
Usmanov could then step in and offer to buy the shares allotted to the small shareholders thus enabling him to acquire shares at a much cheaper rate than he has until now.
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 12:24 pm
I’m completely convinced that if we sell Adebayor we won’t be in the title race next season.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 12:24 pm
me too…
By: rev on July 3, 2009
at 12:32 pm
The tennis is fucking brilliant!
I’m guessing you haven’t been to see it live???
By: rev on July 3, 2009
at 12:34 pm
True, Ole, we’ll be ahead of the race next season, and the loss of any one player can’t change that.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 12:37 pm
Ole Gunner –
Dont be a knobend. We will win everything next season because we are Arsenal and we are the best team ever. If Ade leaves we’ve got Bendtner who is the best striker in the premiership and will fire us fifty goals and set up fifty as well cos we are arsenal and we are the best
By: Frost on July 3, 2009
at 12:39 pm
Don’t get you, Poliziano…
But in the end it doesn’t matter. Arsene knows.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 12:40 pm
Ole – that is a bit strong dude, but it certainly doesn’t appear to hurt our chances. I think Ade should start pre-season along with Bendtner and Eddy on equal footing, make them all fight for games. Still, in an equally difficult season for various reasons, bendtner got just 1 goal shy of Ade last year.
By: arsenehollis on July 3, 2009
at 12:40 pm
From what I have read and believe, Arsene will let Adebayor go. It seems he has found a replacement…fair enough as long as this player is determined to fight and play each week for Arsenal unlike some others…
Toure was on his way out for £12 million..? If so replace him with another centreback.
Eboue wants out as well…he can be replaced too.
Gallas has one year left, so either extend his contract or sell for at least something! Football is a money game now, we should not allow someone to leave for free!
We have too many players who are unsettled and do not like each other etc. Maybe changing this will help them re-discover a team spirit that we all know has been missing for ages.
By: Anti Idiot Party on July 3, 2009
at 12:42 pm
The current circus at ManU is a clear vindication of the policy pursued by Arsene Wenger. In several interviews over the past years, he explained that going into a bidding war for high-priced players on the transfer market is unsustainable for clubs without deep-pocketed sugar-daddies like Abramovich. Despite having 80 million in the bank after selling Ronaldo, they have lost out in the bidding for:
Tevez – blinked at the cost of his rights plus wages.
Benzema – outbid by RM.
Ribery – absolutely no interest in MU, RM only.
Et’o – possible bidding war with Man City for one of the priciest forwards on the market.
Roque Santa Cruz already hoovered up by Man City.
So they are left with who? Michael Owen!
Man U’s pr department in the media are already spinning this as the the “best piece of business” since Henrik Larsson. If Michael Owen is ManU’s best signing to date then Gooners must be pardoned for thinking that making Sylvestre a back-up defender must have been a stroke of genius.
By: shotta-gunna on July 3, 2009
at 12:43 pm
It’s unlikely that Wenger would be able to replace Adebayor with an equally effective player straight away, but I still think Arsenal would be at least as strong as any of the competition.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 12:45 pm
Arse Frost,
With Bentley, Bent, Zokora, Penas, Pubplayermachenko all moving on this summer, it must be a great time to be a spud. You seem upbeat.
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 12:45 pm
Nick,
YW makes a good point about how the proposed Rights issue was placed to curry flavour with fans. But I think its also important to realise that:
1. Kronke’s current shareholding plus the management agreement thats currently in place means that Kronke effectively now controls the club. So why would he want to shell out huge money to increase his shareholding – when he already has control..?? The appointment of Gazidis and transfer from Fiszman bears this out. The recent share transfers to Kronke were not actual cash transactions but future contracts with each of the individual shareholders. This implies that Kronkes cash is currently tied up in existing investments and the current climate restricts him liquidating those reserves.
2. Usmanov knows that Kronkes money is tied up. I think the purpose of the Rights issue is to either force Kronke’s hand into making a complete buy out of the club, knowing that Kronke does want to do this or for Usmanov to make himself more popular with fans and increase his overall shareholding by underwriting the issue. If Kronke and Fiszman decide not to go ahead with the issue – they have to be able to substantiate this to all the shareholders that its in the best interests of the club and not just their own vested interests. This makes for an interesting standoff and must be carefully dealt with.
The reality from Usmanovs perspective is the longer that this goes on, the better and stronger Kronke will be. Usmanov certainly wants control and sooner, rather than later, is going to be his best strategy.
By: Joe on July 3, 2009
at 12:50 pm
Poliziano,
I’m convinced we’ll be weaker. But Arsene knows. He’ll do what he thinks is best and more often than notm it’ll be the best thing given the choices.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 12:51 pm
YW,
I’m sure he does have ulterior motives; I’m just not sure they are as simple as “take control of the club and be like Abramovich”. I think he is an unpleasant character, but with Stan there with a blocking stake, he will know that even if the rights issue resulted in him increasing his stake (which I am sure it would), it would still leave him well short of control.
What does he want want from his stake in Arsenal? I wish I knew. My own hunch is that he he sees Arsenal as an element in buiding up a broader media empire. He holds a stake in Facebook, his metals company sponsors Dinamo Moscow, he owns 50% of a Russian TV sports channel and a Moscow newspaper. I think he sees a very well run club, both on and off the field, with a world-class stadium in one of the most prestigious cities, but one with an under exploited brand (relative to say Real Madrid, Barcelona or ManU). He sees a club now part-owned by an American with huge experience in sports ownership and marketing, who can grow the Arsenal brand, and I think he sees Russia as a huge market to take Arsenal into.
Does he love Arsenal? No. Is he in it for the money? Yes, but I don’t think he sees owning the club as the way to make money in the same way that the Gaziers did with ManU, more as a way of driving subscribers to his media interests. Cast your mind back to when ITV and Sky bought stakes in football teams and what they said their motives were; that is where I think he is coming from.
By: Nick on July 3, 2009
at 12:51 pm
Shotta Gunner,
The rumour is that they’re going after Luis Fabiano. But I’m not convinced because he’s 29 and didn’t they just say they’ll only buy players younger than 24?
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 12:54 pm
Good points Joe.
I think that Usmanov, Stan and Fiszman are all a bit “shadowy” as regards what funds they have and what their objectives are.
By: Nick on July 3, 2009
at 12:59 pm
Joe,
I did’nt know Kroenke’s agreement to buy shares from Fiszman and other shareholders was in the form of future contracts. News agencies and newspapers reported them as cash transactions.
If they are future contracts, can Fiszman actually claim 28.3% ownership right now as opposed to a future date when the contract becomes valid?
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 12:59 pm
Ole, I’m starting to think Arsene might be willing to let Ade go. He does not want to make it obvious because that would affect his price if we put him up for sale. However, with 09/10 being an ACN year, he may not get any realistic offers, but come 10/11 it could be a different story if he can regain his 07/08 form. I would still be sorry to see him go because it would feel to me like he had been forced out by the boo boys who would feel vindicated even though the real reason would be because Arsene thinks it’s best for the team.
By: Passenal on July 3, 2009
at 1:03 pm
Alex –
I am confident that with the correct coaching and an arm around his shoulder, Eboue can be just as effective ont he right wing as Cristiano Ronaldo. He has the talent he just needs us to support him better
By: Frost on July 3, 2009
at 1:05 pm
A salary cap can work.
The salary cap Gazidis, Wenger have proposed, which Platini now backs is to tie maximum player wages & transfer fees to a fixed percentage of the club’s revenue. So the cap could be fixed at say 50%. The richer clubs will still pay more, since they have more revenue, and any club can still pay any amount for anyone player. It’s the total wage bill that will be capped.
I think it will work splendidly. There are many other ways it can be done. You can tie it to debt as well. You can ban clubs who have more than a certain % of debt from spending more than a certain quota on wages and transfers.
You can limit the number of players a club can have who earn more than a certain amount of money. E.g you could say no club can have no more than 10 players who earn more than £200K a week…
There are so many ways to structure it.
And the Premier League and Champions League are most able to implement it.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 1:05 pm
No i have not been to wimbledon, I heard there is alot of crowd trouble and i cant afford the strawberries.
By: dukegoonem on July 3, 2009
at 1:07 pm
Shotta-gunna –
stop being so bitter and twisted about other clubs man. Wake up and realise that we have the talent to win the league. Denilsons powerfull, driving runs from midfield wil be the difference so stop moaning and get behind the team
By: Frost on July 3, 2009
at 1:07 pm
Shotta,
To be fair to Tevez, he left Utd coz they took the piss out of him and preffered that one shit park to him in the cl final and that berkatov was ahead of him which is a joke coz berk is not better then Tevez.
By: dukegoonem on July 3, 2009
at 1:12 pm
Passenal,
Being willing to let Ade go means little to me really. I don’t think Wenger has an emotional attachment to him or anything.
The key thing is that we need him next season, and I am sure Wenger will know that as much as anyone else. If there’s a long-term plan to replace him, by bringing in another player even this season while keeping Ade, and Ade then leaves in 10/11, that’d be absolutely fine. In any case I really do think there’s a 90% probability he’ll be here in August.
If we sell him, we won’t get a like-for-like replacement, and it will cost us the progression we’ve made in 3 years.
Like it or not, Ade has been an important part of the team in the last 2.5 seasons, and there’ll be a cost to losing him in terms of team performance.
The reasons Chelsea and Man Poo did better than us is that they’ve kept the same teams for 4-5 years and only made reinforcements while we’ve rebuilt every season.
In the invincibles era, we kept the team together for a few seasons. We didn’t sell Bergkamp one season, Pires the next, Vieira the next. Once we started selling bits of the team, that particular team reached the end of its cycle.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 1:16 pm
I aggree with Frost. Denilson will be huge the coming season. And I really do think, that Eboue will really challenge our attacking midfielders for that Right wing spot. And they do need our support, as Frost pointed out.
By: Ateeb on July 3, 2009
at 1:22 pm
I’m not disagreeing with you Ole as I would like him to stay, but reflecting on Arsene’s recent comments I just wondered if he might be prepared to let him go this summer? I would rather we start with the same squad because Cesc/Ade have a good partnership as we saw neatly encapsulated in their first game back against Man City last season.
By: Passenal on July 3, 2009
at 1:26 pm
Oh come on. My posts will be delayed again? Figure it out Yogi!!!
By: Ateeb on July 3, 2009
at 1:27 pm
Ole Gunner –
We dont need him next season, stop saying that !!!!
We have all we ned and with the right support they will win everything. We have enough talent that we can nurture to the heights of Henry and Ronaldo, we will make our own starman for next season –
Take a bow – Emaunuel Eboue
By: Frost on July 3, 2009
at 1:27 pm
why dont you take a bow frost for your smartass comments then give yourself a nice pat on the back.
By: dukegoonem on July 3, 2009
at 1:41 pm
i think if you ask every premiership defender in the country who the hardest player to play against is they’ll all tell you Adebayor. The only player who might fill his boots is Eto.
By: rev on July 3, 2009
at 1:44 pm
dukegoonem –
Listen up DoomerGoonem, stop slating the lads and get behind them, everyone of them. You’ll see a rise in there performances. Next seaon I want you to make it your mission to seek out each player and get behind them. No matter where they are, you must be behind them.
Ok?
By: Frost on July 3, 2009
at 1:46 pm
i don’t think Eto can fill his boot. Ade’s wear boots sized 46 while Eto’s are 43.
By: Ateeb on July 3, 2009
at 1:46 pm
rev –
Exactly rev, Adebeyor is immense
By: Frost on July 3, 2009
at 1:47 pm
Yogi……..? Let me out. Let me be free. Frost is tempting, how can you not let me counter him?
By: Ateeb on July 3, 2009
at 1:48 pm
It’s the “prepared to let him go” bit I’m unsure about. Wenger will let a player go if such a player is determined to go. He eventually let Vieira go.
But the interpretation of prepared to let him go is not consistent with everything Wenger has said and is saying.
He is saying “We will have the same squad as last year”. “I don’t want Ade to go”.” I think he will stay”. “I want to keep Adebayor”.
That negates the willing to let him go bit. We all know Ade could go. But I don’t think Wenger wants to sell him.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 1:48 pm
Ole Gunner –
You will support him if he stays so stop talking rubbish and lets talk about our title winning speech
By: Frost on July 3, 2009
at 1:49 pm
So…. Frost is our troll for the day… stuffed troll anyone ?
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 1:58 pm
Ole Gunner @ 1:16pm – Absolutely right re Ade especially “I don’t think Wenger has an emotional attachment to him or anything.”
Wenger had a quote this week where he spoke about the club’s decisions on players are not based on emotion but on cold hard logic.
The problem is our fans, many ACLFers included, refuse to understand that the smart players and agents will take a similar stand….a club will dump you in a minute if they get the right offer. But if players are human beings and the support and ties they develop with the fans and the club usually count as one of the secondary factors as to whether they decide to leave or stay.
Unfortunately there is a section at Arsenal fans who have always resented Adebayor, 1st because he is “no-Henry”, 2nd because he leveraged his 32 goal season into a wage increase. Lost on most fans is, unlike Flamini and Hleb, he could have chosen a higher salary and hightail it to Milan.
We have a proven 1 in 2 goal scorer and instead of standing behind him as long as he is an Arsenal player, some fans behave like immature teenagers, urging he be sold. As Ole has stressed you don’t rebuild a team over 3-4 years and dismantle key components on the eve of success. We are simply playing into the hands of the media and opposing football clubs who would like the club to fail.
PS: I swore I would never write anything serious about Ade again, preferring my little burlesque with Ateeb-ayor. I saw my lampooning of those who feel we should sit Ateeb-ayor on the bench was lost on many. Happily that greedy bastard and I remain fast friends.
By: shotta-gunna on July 3, 2009
at 2:03 pm
The salary cap is an interesting concept which can only work if it is adopted at least across the whole of Europe. It would certainly not work if it is taken seriously by some federations and not others. The NFL and baseball in the US are often raised as examples, even by Ivan Gazidis, but these leagues operate in one nation. The market for football of course is global AND is massive in many countries so players can easily move from country to country, or even continent to continent. Are clubs accounts entirely transparent in all countries?
That said, what does it achieve. If salary is capped at a percentage of income then it simply reinforces the current status quo. Also surely one of the major problems is the increasing size of transfer fees, not just wages. How to stop this. How to compensate those who have already paid a fortune for their players. What about smaller clubs who supplement their income by selling on players.
My view is that more of the big money should filter down and across. Clubs should pay a ‘tax’ related to transfers and salary bills into a central pot which is shared out to poorer clubs and federations. Frankly I would prefer the lions share of that pot to go to African football.
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 2:05 pm
Like JJ, I simply scroll past the postings of the newest troll on board. Some choose to engage them, like the Ateeb-onator, and eventually they get the message.
By: shotta-gunna on July 3, 2009
at 2:10 pm
DNFTT
By: Consolsbob on July 3, 2009
at 2:21 pm
Let me out. Grrr….. Must insult Frost. Haven’t caught a Troll since morning, Yogi. Why are you trying to discipline me? lol.
By: Ateeb on July 3, 2009
at 2:21 pm
Alex,
I clearly remember reading some detailed analysis in one of the broadsheets and that was what I found most intriguing about Kronke’s recent share transfers. The transfers went through but the actual cash transactions were staggered to accommodate him liquidating investments at the optimum time given the current flux of the stock exchange and exchange rate.
Why would he want to buy out Usmanov when he already has control.? Gazidis was appointed on his recommendation.
And remember it was Dein who actually introduced Kronke to Arsenal. He certainly went about it the wrong way – but I do think his heart was in the right place. I do think he genuinely wanted the club to be financed to compete with RM / Barca / Chelski / Utds of this world.
Wengers comments were interesting on that interview with french radio when he said the team would have to deliver this year – or else start over again. The fact that we’ve even competed has been down to Wenger doing miracles on the transfer market. Wenger even made a profit in transfer dealings in some seasons.! But we were lucky last season with Villa’s form tailing off and the arrival of AA. Will we be as lucky this season – with the emergence of Man City and the money they spend – Tevez, Roque Santa Cruz, Possibly Eto and Gods knows who else? Chelski have spent 750m or thereabouts. RM 200m this season alone so far and counting. Manu have spent colossal money too and City, by all accounts, are deemed to be the richest team in the world and have only begun their buying, bidding for the likes of Kaka & Eto so far..!!
My fear – is if the youth policy does not deliver this year, and we don’t have the money to finance an alternative strategy – its not inconceivable that Wenger might stand down. He will be 60 and would have taken the club as far as he could given the resources available to him. Thats why winning something is so important – its not because some people are impatient – its because it substantiates the tireless work Wenger has done to put this team together and his belief that it is possible for an organic club to compete at the highest level, playing great football – like Ajax did.
By: Joe on July 3, 2009
at 2:22 pm
A little pasquinade, Shotta!
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 2:22 pm
Ole, Arsene has also said if he (Ade) wants to leave, he will go he has also spoken about Chamakh as a suitable replacement should someone leave – these are the comments that are making me wonder, that is all. However, Ade has not given any indication that he wants to leave and I hope it stays that way.
By: Passenal on July 3, 2009
at 2:24 pm
Frank @ 2:05 pm – IMO, one of the biggest obstacles to reforming in English football and retaining its grassroots heritage is that the FA has sold out completely to the big money interests. Having become addicted to big banks, hedge funds, oligarchs with criminal backgrounds and various money launders, they are trying to reign in spending with the talk of a salary cap. Even Gazidis is espousing this option. But you are correct, unlike American football and basketball, football is universal and there are leagues in other European countries that can easily overtake the EPL by simply buying up all the best talent available.
Supporters of English football need to consider the Bundesliga option which aims at not only ensuring the financial viability of the League by adopting strict licensing requirements based on clubs spending within their means as well as preserving German ownership and discouraging monopoly ownership of football clubs (much like the dispersed ownership of AFC which itself is in doubt as the various millionaires scheme to get control).
By: shotta-gunna on July 3, 2009
at 2:27 pm
Joe,
“But we were lucky last season with Villa’s form tailing off and the arrival of AA.”
I disaggree, Villa never had the squad to challenge us for fourth till the end of the season.
The 2007/2008 season, showed that the youth strategy has more chance of delivering than failure. All we need is to keep the squad together, and hope for a fortunate season when it comes to injuries.
AND, the Chavs and the liverpool strategy also shows that buying big won’t necessarily bring success. If you’re going to judge a team by the trophies, than Chavs and Pool, haven’t been different to us.
By: Ateeb on July 3, 2009
at 2:27 pm
Frank,
The tax idea is not a bad one. That’s what they do in the Major League Baseball.
I don’t care what you do so long as;
1. Wage inflation is curbed.
2. There’s no longer a race to spend ever more than the next club, pulling football into a vortex that threatens to pull the sport down, and completely alienate the average fan.
3. Smaller clubs still have a way to compete.
I disagree with two things: 1, I’m not worried about simply reinforcing the status quo. If anything that’s desired. Nobody wants a change that creates new winners and losers. If it keeps Tottenham as a small club, with delusions of grandeur, then I am fine with that. If it keeps Man poo as England’s richest I am also fine with that.
2, I don’t agree that one league can’t implement it. The argument is that it’d make that league uncompetitive, but I completely disagree. The biggest clubs in England will still remain competitive even when there’s a salary cap. It will be tied to revenue don’t forget. Man poo still have a decent ratio of wages to turnover. As do Liverpool. As do Arsenal. Chelski are the ones who don’t and that’s because it’s a mismanaged club. In any case, the cap can be set at a level that still allows the clubs to compete for wages. The key thing is to stop wage inflation and the unending spiral to pay ever more. The key is to get it under control and not necessarily a socialist mandate of pay level. It’s just a business necessity. It’s not because we hate Chelsea (even though we do), it’s that Chelsea’s recklessness is threatening the sport.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 2:28 pm
Actually if Ade is seriously considering leaving the club this summer the establishment and he have been surprisingly quiet about it. OR perhaps it is that very quietness which provides the biggest clue of all. If he was not leaving he would be more outspoken, even if he is on holiday. If only he or AW would give us a sign. Perhaps they have, perhaps we missed it. Oh dear, what to do, what to do.
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 2:28 pm
Yes, Shotta, good stuff. I agree with dispersed ownership or even ownership by the fans, provided the fans all think like me or like people I like.
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 2:31 pm
Joe,
You make some interesting comments. A couple of points if I may. Don’t be worried about gap between us and Villa – it is huge – and if it wasn’t for injuries to most of our key attacking players, it would have been greater.
Secondly, I wouldn’t worry either about the $$$$$$$ being spent either at Chelsea, Real Madrid or Manchester City. The latter 2 clubs in my view have still failed to prise any of the best defenders or holding midfielders from any of the big clubs.
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 2:37 pm
OG, I don’t think that Platini would necessarily agree with you about the status quo. He is looking to even out the field. Also it would seem that private ownership of football clubs is the concept to which you object. Problem of course with having a go at private ownership is that it would be the very phenomenon which would thrive with a wage cap. Abramovitch could pay a player £50K per week for playing for his miserable team of puffs, and £150K per week for cutting his lawn.
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 2:44 pm
Joe,
Is there anybody who thinks we don’t need a trophy? Sometimes I am surprised that people keep this mantra of “We need to win a trophy”. Of course we do. I don’t think anyone thinks we don’t need to.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 2:45 pm
In actual fact, in my view, the transfers by Manchester City and Real Madrid have created an equilibrium of superstars across european clubs that can only be to our advantage. Manchester United have been beaten to the chase for every big name, after losing Tevez and Ronaldo, to the extent that they are scraping the barrel with Owen.
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 2:46 pm
Frank, I know it’s silly to get anxious about the comings and goings of players when I have absolutely no control over it. So hopefully that will be my last word on the subject!
By: Passenal on July 3, 2009
at 2:46 pm
Seems to me that the best way to beat inflated salaries is for a club to win everything in sight without inflated salaries, making the rich kids look pathetic. The same club might win everything in sight with home grown players too and so avoid enormous transfer fees. Let me see now…oh it seems to me that that is exactly what is about to happen. In London. The club is……Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenal….Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenaaa all…Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenal…..Arsenal….ARSENAL….clickclickclick
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 2:48 pm
Passenal
It won’t be. You are addicted, no matter how trite it seems…
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on July 3, 2009
at 2:51 pm
YW – you know me too well!
By: Passenal on July 3, 2009
at 2:53 pm
Your ‘hit’ rate is higher than anyone else, Passenal. The voice of reason.
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 2:56 pm
Frank,
I like private ownership in principle. What I object to is for football clubs to be allowed to run with lax financial rules.
For example, I think Arsenal is perfect the way we are. Not one owner, a board that has the mentality of a trust, a PLC that makes money every year. Excellent. We’re a shining light. I also like Bundesliga clubs, the vast majority of which a profitable.
Does Platini want to even the field? Maybe. Will that be accepted. I doubt it.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 2:56 pm
I agree with you, OG.
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 2:57 pm
Frank, I share your ideals on club ownership, especially with the proviso that the owners agree with you! However, Tony over at Untold Arsenal cites an interesting case relating to fans owning a club, see:
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=975
Sobering.
Joe, I don’t share your concerns.
Manu and Chelsea show no signs of continuing their crazy spending of the past. Theis owners can’t or won’t allow it. The same for Liverpool. As for Man C, I can’t really see them as a threat.
They have all turned their backs on developing a sustainable football club and all will pay the cost at some time.
By: Consolsbob on July 3, 2009
at 3:03 pm
Joe,
Good post. I found one comment from Wenger in his latest interview interesting. When asked if he liked any particular player available in the transfer market, he replied saying that he liked a player (Benzema) but he had already left for Madrid.
Its unlikely that Wenger would have made that comment if he didnt believe that he had the financial resources to make a serious approach for him. I believe that the stabilisation period after our move to Ashburton Grove is coming to an end and we have much greater financial resources than before.
I am confident going into next season and not just because one is always upbeat about Arsenal. I truly believe that with some minor tweaking, we have a serious chance in the league. The Villa’s, Everton’s and City’s currently have a negligible chance to beat us over the course of a season. The only question is if we will be more consistent than the other major clubs.
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 3:05 pm
Muppet,
RM already have the 2 diarra’s and have signed albiol from valencia. City have signed barry and are linked with Kolo & Lescott. City will be a force.
I accept your point on villa – but they still managed to scare us and were it not for the arrival of AA – I think it would have been much much closer.
By: Joe on July 3, 2009
at 3:05 pm
Naaah, AA was a contributor but so were lots of other players. Many of us were never ever concerned about Aston Villa.
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 3:09 pm
Bob,
I think Manu have just failed to sign players so far loosing Benzema and its no secret they’re interested in Ribery. They will be active yet and Chelsea will be too. Ancellotti certainly didn’t take that job without being given a budget or commitments from the club to make the changes he wants. I just think everyone is waiting for RM to finishing gorging themselves so the others can fight for the scraps..!!
I wish I could be as confident as you are in writing off city..!! The money they have at their disposal is unbelievable..!
By: Joe on July 3, 2009
at 3:14 pm
Joe,
City will need some time to integrate everyone into their team and play as a unit. They will also need a complete turnaround of their away form from last season. Further, in my opinion Mark Hughes is yet to demonstrate the abilities of even a Moyes or O’Neil in challenging for a Europa League consistently given that he has had superior resources to them last year.
In 2010, they may become a serious force though. A managerial change also cant be ruled out.
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 3:20 pm
Muppet,
Good point. Real have priced everybody else out of the market and it’s looking like a really even market.
But on the other hand, that’s why I don’t want us to lose Adebayor or any of the main players…..Adebayor, RVP, Eduardo, Cesc, Gallas, Toure, Sagna, Clichy, Arshavin, Almunia…..
If we do we’ll struggle to replace them in this market.
Look at the number of clubs that are trying to rebuild (or build); Milan, Inter, Roma, Juve, Chelsea, Man Yoo, Man City, Bayern, Wolfsburg, Lyon, Bordeaux…. The number of top players didn’t increase from last year to this one.
All those clubs are looking at 6 or 7 strikers in total….Adebayor, Huntelaar, Benzema, Tevez, Fabiano, Chamakh, Dzeko….
Full backs: Maicon, Bosingwa, Grosso, Dossena, Arbeloa……
And so on down the line.
If we lose a player we’d not just have to pay over the odds for replacements, we might actually not find one!
It’s imperative to keep this squad together.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 3:25 pm
There are more good players in the world than you think, Ole. The secret is to be able to recognise them. Many managers cannot, so they must needs pursue the players who are being talked about, or who used to be talked about. It’s all rather comical, in my opinion.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 3:30 pm
I can’t aggree more with Ole. What other strikers are out there that we could replace Ade with?
To begin with, I think he’s one of the top srikers, and it would be foolish to sell him. And which clubs would be willing to part with their top strikers, that we could buy at a decent price?
And why is everyone discussing Villa challenging us? He’ll be playing in europe, I don’t think it’s possible for anyone from Spain to contest the PL.
As for Man City, even if they manage to buy Tevez and Eto, we of all the people should know that it takes more than 11 players to pose a good title challenge. They would need a pretty decent squad depth to challenge for fourth place. I don’t think we need to be worried about fourth though, that would be Chavs, Pool’s and Manu’s problem from here on in.
By: Ateeb on July 3, 2009
at 3:36 pm
Joe,
Sure, Manchester City and Real have managed to get defenders or midfielders, but are they the best ? I’ll bow to your judgement about Albiol and the Diarra pairing. Not frankly convinced about Lescott and Barry. When clubs start to do what Chelsea have been doing and manage to sign the likes of Cech, Essien, Ballack, Alex and Carvalho, then we should be really worried.
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 3:37 pm
I agree Muppet. I do not see the signings made so far by City to be a concern. I also do not hink that manu will buy much more this summer, certainly not Ribery.
I agree that Ancellotti will have had assurances about a transfer budget but does anyone really think that their spending will be on the level as the first years under Abramovich. They have a lot of building to do over the next few years.
By: Consolsbob on July 3, 2009
at 3:44 pm
Anyway, fuck ‘;em all.
We are The Arsenal.
By: Consolsbob on July 3, 2009
at 3:44 pm
OG,
Agree. We need to hang on to our best players, exactly for the reason that in this market, not only because of inflated fees, but because replacements will be hard to come by, as everybody will be facing the same problem and not releasing their best players.
In a finite pool of players, I do not see anybody dominating through outspending everybody else. It just can’t happen. Of course the overall quality of Manchester City will improve, but not to the extent that they will win the premiership or the champions league.
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 3:45 pm
Pz,
I guess unlike midfielders and defenders, it’s easier to judge a striker based on his scoring record. The ones who usually score a good number of goals, immediately get more attention, and are in the spotlight during the transfer windows. Hence you get the likes of Dzeko and Chamakh, who previously I suppose were probably unknown, atleast to the media and fans of the bigger clubs.
By: Ateeb on July 3, 2009
at 3:46 pm
Poliziano,
If anyone can find bargains that slot in straight away, it’s Wenger. And you’re right that there are a lot of quality players. But the number of players who’re proven at the top level and can be decisive in games is not so large.
It’s like Gallas for example. If you wat to replace him. We want to replace an international with experience of winning trophies in England, playing champions league, at his peak as a footballer and athlete, who can pass, has pace, is above average in the air and is strong.
We can’t come up with more than a few names…..
And they’re usually at top clubs. Those that are not are in demand this summer.
But if the specification is to find a player that can play as well as Gallas, without the experience, but can be nurtured, of course we can find many.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 3:50 pm
At the moment we have a squad that is only good enough to finish fourth.
We need a keeper a DM and a another CH to even become challengers
i just hope Wenger gives young Jack more games next season
He has to be better than Diaby and Ebooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
By: Nutty Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 3:53 pm
If Gallas and Ade want to leave let them Wenger.Dont keep players who are not happy at the club.
By: No out wont on July 3, 2009
at 3:56 pm
NO WAY OUT,
Than why did you cry when Flamini was allowed to leave?
By: Ateeb on July 3, 2009
at 3:58 pm
Ateeb, don’t you know by now that rule only applies to players he doesn’t like
By: Passenal on July 3, 2009
at 3:59 pm
No out wont,
I actually agree with you. But there’s a large middle. Wenger can convince them to stay.
But if anyone is desperate to leave, by all means he should.
So far, no Arsenal player has said he’s desperate to leave unlike Hleb last Summer.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 4:01 pm
AW should give Jack and Ramsey games because both of them are better than Denilson. If Cesc is not available then the best creative midfielder is Jack and not Denilson.
By: Bodad on July 3, 2009
at 4:15 pm
Mark Hughes doesn’t have the ability. Don’t get me wrong, he’s one of the better young Brit managers. But he’s not in the league of Wenger, Ancelotti, Ferguson & Benitez.
And Man City don’t have a big club set-up.
People often forget that Chelsea was consistently spending big and getting into the Top 4 even before Mourinho.
Man City have simply never really been that close to the top apart from a spell in the 60s.
I really welcome Man City because they’ll make the league race more competitive.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 4:18 pm
Frank @ 2:31 pm – You are right that fan ownership is no panacea. Take the outright insanity we sometimes hear from our own fans or from AST for example. Recently Tony Attwood revealed at Untold Arsenal the fishy activities of the supporter-owned group at Notts County. But dispersed ownership within a system that requires clubs live within their means is certainly superior to the hijack of English football by a few moneyed men for their own narrow self-interest.
To be truthful, I think the horse has already bolted the barn door and we are all yearning for a past that is truly gone.
By: shotta-gunna on July 3, 2009
at 4:34 pm
Shotta, unless a big club goes bankrupt it looks like the madness will not stop.
By: Passenal on July 3, 2009
at 4:40 pm
Hughes hasnt got that knowledge to be a good manager but he is a gritty manager.
By: dukegoonem on July 3, 2009
at 4:47 pm
Gritty doesn’t begin to describe him.
By: Consolsbob on July 3, 2009
at 4:50 pm
Ole and others, if Wenger did want to sell Ade, do you think he would come out and say it? He may be adamant that Ade is staying. He may also just not want to seem too desperate to get rid of him. It’s not clear to me.
Second, maybe I shouldn’t even take Nutty Gooner on about this, but where does this belief that Eboue is no good come from? Sometimes our supporters just seem blind idiots. He plays six different positions, his passing is phenomenal, his dribbling is pretty good and he even began to score goals last year. The only thing he has lacked — and I will give the haters this — is mental strength. But talent? Buckets full. The Eboue slack gets so tiring..
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 5:00 pm
California Gooner,
If he didn’t want to sell him he certainly wouldn’t say he does! LOL.
About Eboue; it’s easy. We haven’t won trophies for 4 years. We need scape goats. Eboue is an easy one. Initially the hate was directed at him for being a cheat. Then it was for playing ahead of Walcott. Slowly he completely disintegrated and became a crap player, even though he was very highly rated in his first 2 seasons.
His talent evaporated.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 5:11 pm
Not true, re: Eboue’s talent, agreed on the rest. His talent is still there and plain to see. He did go into something of a downward spiral — anxiety will do that — but I felt like he was playing very well when he virtually disappeared from the team sheet in late February.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 5:16 pm
A club cannot work on the principle that if a player wants to leave then let them no matter what. if a player wants to leave AND the club receives a suitable offer that is another matter. Hleb left because he was at a stage of his contract where he could have used the Webster ruling, he agreed not to on the basis that AW would let hime leave, provided a suitable offercame in.
By: JohnN on July 3, 2009
at 5:20 pm
Interesting story: http://sports.id.msn.com/football/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3434607
Real Madrid want Adidas to double the amount Adidas pays Real Madrid for sold replica shirts from €30M to €60M.
Adidas are negotiating. Even if they got €60M, it shows exactly why their spending makes no sense. They simply can’t make the money back it appears…..
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 5:21 pm
Re Eboue Ade etc.
I’ve never really understood how some players become fans favourites while others are derided no matter what they do.
A friend of mine went to a carling cup match and afterwards told me she thought Djorou was as bad as Cygan! She was looking on the situation with fresh eyes, no preconceptions.
And yet J D seems a very liked player.
Perhaps some pschology student could do their phD on it!
By: JohnN on July 3, 2009
at 5:34 pm
“dont let him”. Yogi you are the greatest.
By: trinigooner on July 3, 2009
at 5:38 pm
Or maybe it is simply the fact that she is a woman John, and we all know how much women know about football.
(waiting for the response from QoS.)
By: Matt on July 3, 2009
at 5:39 pm
RM wants more money? I guess the star-power has commercial value all its own, but perhaps they should win something first. Don’t you all think?
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 5:48 pm
this just sprnag to mind fran merida seem to be alented but i just cant figure wat role if any he will play in the first team setup…any thoughts
By: delano walters on July 3, 2009
at 6:59 pm
Ole Gunner part of the article you quoted, is as follows.
“Besides adidas, Real has several other sponsors, including Coca-Cola, Audi, Bwin and Telefonica, which altogether pay them some 130 millions euros a year, around one third of the club’s revenues of 400 million.”
I find that very hard to believe, as BWIN paid 50 million euros for a three year shirt sponsorship deal, which was renewed in early May this year for a lower amount.
By: kelsey on July 3, 2009
at 7:02 pm
Duke, Consolsbob,
Congratulations!
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 7:07 pm
kelsey
What do you find hard to believe?
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 7:07 pm
I find it hard to believe the fiqures quoted of 130 million euros a year being payed by the various companies(besides Adidas)
By: kelsey on July 3, 2009
at 7:11 pm
Is it too high or too low?
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 7:13 pm
IMO far too high,I don’t believe that Real Madrid generate that income.They sold 6000 Kaka shirts the first week he was signed,admittedly before he was given a squad number,and i believe the fiqures are fabricated.
By: kelsey on July 3, 2009
at 7:19 pm
In addition, Spain has the highest unemployment in europe pro populatio,nearing 4 million, the country is in a deep recession for various reasons,and sponsors are not going to up the anti on a promise of things that might possibly bare fruition.
By: kelsey on July 3, 2009
at 7:22 pm
kelsey,
They’re the world’s richest club. They do do a lot of merchandising. It’s very telling that they have like 5 different sponsorship contracts when some clubs have none. What’s instructive is that they have a very good set up and history to push commercial contracts.
However it’s that 6k shirts figure that shows how they won’t even make the money back from shirts. Everyone knows that hot potatoes sell most when hottest and freshest.
If they could only sell 6k shirts then they will only sell 300k in one year, and that’s a long way from getting the Kaka money back.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 7:32 pm
Owen has moved to man utd.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 7:32 pm
Well it would be very nice if Real Madrid just went and fucked themselves. Seems like they might have just done that.
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 7:43 pm
A message to all Scottish nationalists.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAH
HAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAH
HAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHHH!
By: Frank on July 3, 2009
at 7:45 pm
Re: the folks above wondering where the Eboue slagging comes from – see the Tottenham match this year and the Wigan match, where Wenger took him off amid a flurry of boos. I absolutely detested that booing and the booing of any Arsenal player, but I’m just pointing out what the antipathy is rooted in. Lastly, Eboue has been by far the biggest diver on the club over the last few years. One of the things I like about Arsenal fans is that they hate diving, even if it’s done by Eboue.
As for Ade, I really don’t think Wenger’s too concerned whether Ade stays or goes. He’ll likely be here since AC Milan is going to by Fabiano at a 40% discount to Ade’s price. Wenger knows that next offseason will see the departure of Cesc at hopefully a grand price, and possibly the departure of Arshavin. So regardless of where Ade is, Wenger knows the replacement of our 2 best players, unfortunately sooner rather than later, will be of more paramount importance.
With that, feel free to get upset with me for even mentioning next offseason and getting ahead of myself. I’m off to enjoy the sunshine. Up the arse!
By: ArseChicago on July 3, 2009
at 7:52 pm
If 6 weeks from now ManU have signed a top class striker and another winger Owen will be seen as a good signing. If on the other hand ManU go into next season with Valencia and Owen as their only summer transfer’s they are in trouble.
ManU might just have decided to balance the books. God it’s a good day to be a Gooner!
By: Marc on July 3, 2009
at 7:59 pm
No, up your arse!
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 8:00 pm
Poliziano – What do you make of ManU signing Owen?
By: Marc on July 3, 2009
at 8:04 pm
JonJon
Can you answer my query from yesterday please?
Copied below:
Dear JonJon
“if it was a pub it would be a lot different”?
please explain what you mean!
By: 1number10 on July 3, 2009
at 8:06 pm
I’m astonished, Marc.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 8:08 pm
…1 number 10…jon jon would probably have got into a classic pub brawl with anybody who doubted that he is full of grit…imo he is the very epitome of grit..
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 8:11 pm
ArseChicago,
Fabiano is not some apple that can be just plucked by AC Milan. Sevilla would do their best to hang on to him and quite a few big/rich clubs are looking for strikers as well. The Mancs, Chavs, Inter Milan, Lyons, Man City being just some of them. The bidding for Fabiano is likely to go way higher than 16 million unless he just has one year left on his contract.
Secondly, please dont claim to be able to read Wenger’s mind. Cheers.
By: Alex on July 3, 2009
at 8:16 pm
ArseChicago, you changed the topic from Eboue’s quality as a player to fan’s antipathy to him. So he had a couple of bad games when his confidence was shot. His weakness is that when things go bad they go very bad. But arguing that fans have reason not to like him is different than arguing that he is shit. Think back to your school days: there was probably something about kids who got teased or picked on, but on the whole, I doubt they were much worse or better than anyone else. Crowds are not good at evaluating and tend to come up with reasons to justify opinions they already have.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 8:32 pm
Let’s not be naive here. Real do not have to pay all of the money they owe for the transfers in one go. Sponsors are no doubt contributing some of the fees through deals demanding they turn up at various friendlies around the world.
Yes, they need to sell a certain amount of merchandising to cover this but it is not just down to shirts. What about other leisurewear. To believe that Real only sell in Spain is beyond belief. This is a totally global operation and one that is not just limited to football. Their basketball side will for instance contribute as well as stadium tours, lampshades, fans for the ladies as well as everything else. They know how to operate at a profit
Moreover, the wages for all these superstars are offset by lower amounts to the rest of the squad. They will still make a profit.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on July 3, 2009
at 8:39 pm
I hope Real M buy Ribery too.
The side will be totally unblanced as they`ll all want the bloody ball & be useless at the back.
Can`t wait till the wheels fall off.
Little Michael will have to up his game at Man Poo. He couldn`t get a start at NewCASTLE even when they were desperate but he`s still a `natural goal scorer` so maybe he`ll be an inspired signing for them. Like Kleberson & Djemba Djemba.
By: Paulie Walnuts on July 3, 2009
at 8:47 pm
Alex, notice how I use the word “think”. That signifies an opinion. That does not signify an assertion and disavowal of all of the claims by any of you to the contrary.
Cali, you asked the specific question as to why people were picking on Eboue and I cited the reasons I believe they pick on him.
What is with all you people taking umbrage to someone merely offering an opinion?
By: ArseChicago on July 3, 2009
at 8:57 pm
Who would you prefer in your team Owen or Adebayor?
By: London on July 3, 2009
at 8:59 pm
Also, Cali, I actually agree with you re: Eboue’s talent and versatility. Save a few bad passing games, he’s a very good passer. And maybe other than Arshavin, it seemed as if he was the only one that would take very aggressive pushes of the ball forward toward the box and with great pace. And of course, the versatility. And, what’s not appreciated by the fans, he really wants to stay at Arsenal. Which is nice given the daily stories about such and such person wanting to leave. Selling Eboue just for the sake of selling him wouldn’t be wise.
By: ArseChicago on July 3, 2009
at 9:04 pm
I think it is more accurate to say that Real Madrid know how to operate with a mortgage. I’m sure Florentino Perez’s main concern is not whether the club is debt free at the end of his tenure.
By: London on July 3, 2009
at 9:06 pm
owen
By: Tin of carrots on July 3, 2009
at 9:07 pm
Yep, I sure wish he (Eboue) could find the metal and calm to take him to the level his talent suggests he should be at. But what to do? Give him some adderol? Enroll him in meditation? Have him visit a sports’ psychologist twice a day? Let him find religion? The problem is, that missing ingredient is one of the hardest things to find in life.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 9:08 pm
Lol
By: London on July 3, 2009
at 9:09 pm
Regarding RM, I’m not sure Arsene Wenger’s calculations are right, although I LOVE the way he goes about the business and will always prefer his patient building of a team. Arsene argues that there is no way that C Ronaldo is worth three times Benzema. No arguing there.
But one is paying a lot for very small, marginal differences — the difference, let’s say, between the #1 and #10 best players in the world (out of a pool of around 500 million potential players!). But sports and entertainment are winner-take-all industries. The returns to being top of the heap far outweigh the actual differences between first second. If one things of track, a gold and silver metalist will typically differ by 100ths of seconds. Yet the Gold metalist will get all the endorsements and charge higher fees. Same with football. Chelsea were a very close second to Man U last season in both the league and the CL, but nobody will remember that in a few years, even if they remember it now. So winning, and winning with recognized stars who appeal to the less-cultivated public, really is worth a pile of money.
Economically, that leads to two stylized facts that seem to hold true. First, it is the difference-makers who will be paid most handily. No doubt, Ronaldo and Kaka are difference-makers.
Second, since winning is worth so much more than coming second, you are likely to see arms races, which become incredibly wasteful. And the losers (since there can only be one winner) end up spending large amounts but not gaining much.
Hence these are races that should only be entered if you plan on winning them. The argument Perez makes is that his most expensive signings are actually the cheapest. Chelsea, Man U, Milan, Inter, Barca, Madrid and now Man City either have the resources or are foolish enough to play this game and thus are pulling away from the second tier in terms of spending and star power. Wenger is probably smart to stay out of this arms race and try to win with a different philosophy; but Florentino Perez might also be right — but only if RM deliver on the field. It is a big gamble.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 9:21 pm
I doubt Real Madrid will deliver on the field. They’re trying to repeat the Galacticos without any Galacticos. The previous generation had Zidane and the greater Ronaldo. None of the new generation come close to that level. Real Madrid will fail, and I’ll be among those laughing loudest when they do.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 9:27 pm
Poli, I hope your right. I think it would be very good for the game to watch them crash and burn.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 9:30 pm
YW,
Of course they dont have to pay back in one go. They still have to make the money back however.
I just wonder what’s going to make me, if I were a Real Madrid now go out and buy a towel because my club has Kaka.
I can understand people getting excited about the signing, and getting a Kaka shirt before everyone has one.
Will I next go to the Kaka Theme Park at the Bernabau or whatever they’re cooking? I am deeply skeptical.
I guess I just don’t know why anybody will shell out more money to Real Madrid just because they signed Ronaldo.
They already have full stadiums. They can’t raise season ticket prices. They can negotiate for more money on the TV contract. But not an increase of more than 10-15%. And those contracts are valid for many years.
So the only way they can really raise money is on merchandising. But in a recession, I want to know why I’ll pay for 3 Real Madrid toothbrushes more.
And it’s not like I don’t recognise the commercial juggernaut that Real Madrid is. I do. It’s just that the sums don’t add up.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 9:39 pm
btw, it was Makelele who was the difference-maker. When he left the team stopped winning. He went to Chelsea and they won two titles with him…
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 9:39 pm
Forget Makelele; they’ve got Diarra!
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 9:44 pm
ArseChicago,
I believe California Gooner really asked how the opinion became established that Eboue is crap when honest-to-God he’s a decent player. Good dribbler. Fantastic pace. Excellent running with the ball. One of the better crossers in the team. Of course he can’t head, and his defensive positioning can be bad which is why he was moved to midfield where he can sometimes offer more defensive balance since he’s a good tackler, and understands tactics better than Walcott for example.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 9:46 pm
Lol — Diarra will be asking for Ronaldo-like wages next.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 9:55 pm
From Sky Sports:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Ronaldo-To-Real-Madrid-For-80-Million-Nina-De-Roy-On-Financial-Impact-Of-Manchester-United-Deal/Article/200906215301419?lpos=Business_News_Your_Way_Region_8&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15301419_Ronaldo_To_Real_Madrid_For_80_Million%3A_Nina_De_Roy_On_Financial_Impact_Of_Manchester_United_Deal
Research commissioned by Weber Shandwick Sport estimates that Ronaldo may well pay off most of his fees in his first year alone, netting the club an estimated £45m per year himself and a combined £106m together with Kaka.
To add weight to this argument, Real Madrid has suggested that David Beckham’s stay at the club boosted profits from its shirt and memorabilia sales by 137%.
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 10:03 pm
Is this cover for some kind of swindle?
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 10:10 pm
Research commissioned by Angelo Poliziano suggests that Real Madrid are full of shit.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 10:13 pm
Ole
That is indeed the question – why support a player rather than a team. Will Ronaldo make people support Real. Yep. Will Kaka. Yep. Beckham did it, likewise Zidane before him.
To Perez, it is all about ego. His ego. He wants to assemble a team to outdo his last Galacticos and whatever you say about them, they delivered the silverware. What they failed to do was plan sufficiently for the future. This time, Perez will have plans for a second term of Presidency.
Problematically, the EPL is now considerably stronger than at the turn of the century whilst Barcelona has a better team. Even with their spend, Real are no better positioned to win La Liga or the ECL.
FWIW, I would disagree with Paulie Walnuts. Signing Ribery will give them a better balance to the team. The test is whether Perez allows the players to dictate as he did in his first spell, ultimately destroying his aims.
If Madrid are to crash and burn, what better way than at the hands of Arsenal, the antithesis of their M.O.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on July 3, 2009
at 10:16 pm
Thanks Muppet for pointing us towards that site. If you haven’t figured out, I have something of a passion for political-economy, so I will definitely be checking out Wyn Grant’s site in the coming weeks.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 10:21 pm
According to the Centre for the International Business of Sport, Beckham sold 1 million shirts in his first six months at Real Madrid. So that is the target then for Kaka and Ronaldo then.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on July 3, 2009
at 10:21 pm
Yogi, I thought about that too. RM is has assembled some formidable talent but the competition is much stronger as well. Barca seem to have a real balance between a home-grown core and signings such as Alves, Ya Ya, and Keita who, while a cut below the gallactico level (or two cuts), can really get the job done. The EPL is obviously strong competition in the CL and Arsenal always seems to do well against teams like Real. And you are right to mention that player power — big egos– could undermine the project from within.
I have my fingers crossed.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 10:26 pm
I hope on the pitch RM provide much entertainment. Yes, they are a rival in the Champions League but when RM had the Galacticos No.1, I really wanted them to play Arsenal. It didn’t happen except some testimonial match or something.
This is an exciting team. Do they have the financial stability to pull this off longer term? I don’t know, but in the mean time, it’s show time and count me in.
By: The Brain on July 3, 2009
at 10:29 pm
Sure Brain, provide entertainment but lose. It’s not about rivalry, it’s about disliking the whole philosophy of the club. I want to eat my cake and have it too. And our recent Man U experience aside, these kinds of teams — the one’s that come to play — are one’s we do best against.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 10:34 pm
Muppet,
From the article:
“But research commissioned by Weber Shandwick Sport estimates that Ronaldo may well pay off most of his fees in his first year alone, netting the club an estimated £45m per year himself and a combined £106m together with Kaka.”
First of all, what will be the revenue that nets £45M? If we assume that they make 50% profit on whatever it is they do….then they’ll have to get £90M in revenue from Ronaldo alone, £212M from both players.
Real’s current revenue from everything they make is about £290M. So somehow, Ronaldo and Kaka will bring in more money than the Bernabau, and than Real’s TV contract!!!
This is pure nonsense. It is complete fantasy.
Second, the “fact” (or falsehood) meant to add weight to the argument is in fact meaningless. If Real’s profit before Beckham was £1 and then it became £2.37. Well, sure he’s increased their profit by 137%.
The issue is how much has he increased RM’s revenue, beyond the cost of his wages and transfer fee.
Well it turns out Real Madrid’s revenues (not even profits) only increased by some thing like £100M in the 4 years Beckham was there. Not £100M a year mind you…£100M in 4 years. Though I’ll point out that the total increase was probably
And even Beckham didn’t cost £80M. What is it about Ronaldo that will make him sell more than Beckham?
What is the star value of Ronaldo (the lesser), Benzema and Kaka, and Albiol that is greater than the star power of Ronaldo (the authentic), Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Roberto Carlos, Raul etc?
In a depressed global economy?
Pure fantasy.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 10:35 pm
According to an earlier comment, Real Madrid sold 6,000 Kaka shirts in the first week after his signing. There are 26 weeks in six months. 26 * 6,000 = 156,000. That’s less than 16% of the amount needed. According to research commissioned by Weber Shandwick Sport, however, shirt sales are likely to be at their lowest following the excitement immediately following a new signing, but will increase exponentially thereafter. Real Madrid should have no problem.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 10:37 pm
California Gooner on July 3, 2009 – “Regarding RM, I’m not sure Arsene Wenger’s calculations are right….” I would prefer Wenger’s assessments to any that I have seen in this blog and elsewhere.
By: shotta-gunna on July 3, 2009
at 10:37 pm
Yogis’ Warrior….
1 million shirts in 6 months is a figure I doubt. But I’ll accept it as true. That’s €60M in revenue for Adidas, €6M in revenue for RM.
Not bad, right? Well, their total shirt revenue was still much less than €30M in 2003. Even with Beckham, Ronaldo, Zidane, etc.
We’re still a long way off from getting €200M in transfer fees & another like €100M on salaries back.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 10:45 pm
The figures on the merchandising to seem kind of incredible. I’m almost with PZ on his sceptical comments. If the average selling price of a Real Madrid shirt is, say, £30 pounds, with the wholesale costs being charged at £20 pounds a shirt, deducting £5 pounds for the manufacturing cost, then, assuming that Beckham’s total of 1 million shirts is calculated pro rata, a figure of 4 million shirts would bring a staggering £60 million pounds, just for one years revenue, and discounting Benzema et al.
These are off the cuff figures, I don’t know if they are anywhere near the right ballpark. Anybody work in retail care to comment ?
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 10:57 pm
My assumptions above include shirt sales for both Kaka and Ronaldo. Hence the 4 million figure in a year.
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 10:59 pm
Half the price of each shirt will go to the seller.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 11:06 pm
would anyone here of complained if we’d of signed benzema or kaka or ronaldo???
By: JonJon on July 3, 2009
at 11:07 pm
Yes
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 11:11 pm
Ok, so assuming £15 pounds for the seller. £10 net profit for each shirt to Real, for every million shirts sold, they will get £10 million. Or in euros.
I read somewhere that the Real Madrid fanbase is 450 million supporters worldwide. That could be bullshit. Let’s assume it’s 100 million supporters. If just 5% of that 100 million buy a new shirt that would generate 5 million shirt sales which would give a revenue of £50 million.
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 11:12 pm
Real have blown Man Utd and chelsea out of the water. When was the last time the worlds best player didnt play for either Barca or Real.The premiership best league in the world dont make me laugh.
By: Gooner Ted on July 3, 2009
at 11:17 pm
shotta-gunn, I wasn’t clear when I questioned Wenger’s calculations. It wasn’t really about money. My point was the following: Wenger pointed out that Ronaldo isn’t 3 times as valuable (in football terms) as Benzema, even if he costs 3 times as much. I was pointing out that in a winner-take-all competition, someone who is 5 percent better on the pitch might be worth three times as much in financial terms. So, Arsene was suggesting there should be a linear relationship between quality and price, but obviously (and he knows this) there is not.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 11:21 pm
Muppet,
There are 2 ways a company makes money on shirts.
1. Real commission Adidas. Adidas makes the shirts. They sell them worldwide and in the home market. Then they give the club a percentage. The percentage is usually 6%-10%. But it depends. Real are selling Kaka shirts for a bit more than usual, so they probably get a bit more than usual. Maybe 1 or 2% more but only in this initial hype stage.
2. The club sells its own shirts in its own stores. Then they claim all the revenue on the shirt but they only still get a small 7%-10% of the value of the shirt as profit. In this case it’s a pure retail operation. The problem with this is that just a few people are served by these. Mostly the local fan base, and tourists.
Whatever is the case they are not getting more than €10 per shirt sold. To get €200M back they have to sell 20 million shirts.
Here’s a study on football shirts that might help: http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:1T23g0i1qKoJ:citt.management.dal.ca/Files/pdf%27s/DP-181.pdf+football+shirts+industry&hl=en
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 11:21 pm
why pol??
By: JonJon on July 3, 2009
at 11:28 pm
Most of the shirts sold are probably fake.
By: Poliziano on July 3, 2009
at 11:30 pm
OG,
Cheers ! Thanks for the info. I had no idea how it worked.
Still, assuming they sell 5 million shirts a year, 50 million euro a year is not to be sniffed at. But that would only pay back, what, a quarter, a third of their outlay so far this year. Assuming they keep making transfers, they will need other money from elsewhere.
By: Muppet on July 3, 2009
at 11:33 pm
California Gooner,
I understand what you’re saying and think it’s correct but….. What is it about Ronaldo that makes him able to generate three times Benzema’s revenue?
What is inaccurate though is that there’s a big gap in terms of money from 1st to 2nd. It is a significant gap, but it’s far from winner takes all.
Here’s the list of clubs and the prize money they won in 08/09.
Man Utd £90.0m
Liverpool £72.3m
Chelsea £81.2m
Arsenal £73.4m
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/premier-league-top-four-getting-richer-1694431.html
Liverpool made the least money. And they made just £18M less than Man poo. £18M is a hell of a lot of money but it’s 1/4 of Ronaldo’s transfer fee. It’s not the difference between greatness and mid-tableity (ha ha).
It’s a really important point, this. It’s what justifies Arsenal’s strategy. Spending over the odds on transfers will not help you make that much more. The things that help are, the size of your stadium, the size of your fan base, and the wealth of your fan base.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 11:38 pm
we invested more money on building a new stadium…we have that covered on well financed repayments over a period of time that secures us financially…
whats to say that real havent done the same thing…only instead of building a new stadium…which they dont need….theyve ploughed the money into the team….
By: JonJon on July 3, 2009
at 11:39 pm
the shirt repayments may or may not recoup some of the transfer fee….
but if real only have to repay 20mil quid a year on a lets say 250mil quid loan….im sure they wont give a toss whether they do or do not….
they’ll still make a profit every year…….
By: JonJon on July 3, 2009
at 11:42 pm
Muppet,
They never say how many shirts they sold in total. What I do know is that Chelski only sold about 400k shirts worldwide in 2007. If Real sell 10 times Chelsea they only sell 4 million.
Barcelona’s commercial director says Real Madrid will have to sell 30 million shirts to get the Kaka& Ronaldo transfer money back. He said it’s impossible.
Barcelona is only a slightly smaller brand than Real Madrid and they have a lot of big stars.
Another angle: If Kaka or Ronaldo can sell that many shirts, why didn’t AC Milan & Manchester United make that money while they were at their respective clubs? I can understand that RM merchandises better, but surely not more than like 30% better than Manchester United?
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 11:45 pm
and dont forget…it wont only be shirt sales and merchandising that will help towards the cost…
real will now offlaod millions of pounds worth of talent that they dont need and will help clear the wage bill and also recoup probably all of kakas transfer fee straight away…
real could break even in as quick as two years….
either way they are laughing….
By: JonJon on July 3, 2009
at 11:49 pm
JonJon,
Actually a very astute point. It’s the repayment amount that counts. Real Madrid get such good rates that repayment is easy.
But.
Something else counts, and that’s cash. Here’s the problem though. They still have to pay the money back. Every loan has a term. At best they get 5-6-7 years to pay back So at some point they have to pay a lot of money back.
The thing about debt is that there is always a point at which it becomes unsustainable.
By: Ole Gunner on July 3, 2009
at 11:55 pm
Ivan Gazidis said ‘The club is fundamentally strong. I can say with confidence that provided we don’t do foolish things, this will be one of the leading clubs in the world this year, five years from now and 20 years from now.
“This is not some experiment to see how successful we can be over the next couple of years, and who knows where we will be after that. This is a good, sustainable business.”
Its great that we are not experimenting and the model we are following is well thought out. According to Gazidis it is a win win situation with the way the club has been run even in extreme situations like not playing CL or not winning trophies we will still do well in the long term.In few years time when we have paid the debts we will have huge sums for transfers and the doom and gloom merchants will look back and say “Wenger is a genius, we knew all along”
By: 1 Loose cannon on July 3, 2009
at 11:57 pm
Good point Ole. So just maybe Madrid will lose even if they win. In that case, the only teams spending should be Man City and Chelsea since they are rich boy’s play-things and aren’t meant to make money. Perhaps RM is just what it seems to be — a case of populism run amok.
By: California Gooner on July 3, 2009
at 11:58 pm
JonJon,
They were aiming at getting £100M back for Huntelaar, Van Nist & co. So with that you’re right.
But they’ll make the money back in 2 years? N-O
By: Ole Gunner on July 4, 2009
at 12:05 am
yes ole…i beleive you to be correct…at some point they will probably have to repay off a lump sum…
but with the millions they will make on merchandising…whatever the figure will be…added to the millions that they will recoup on outgoing transfers…it wouldnt be a stab in the dark to suggest that the lump sum would be covered almost immediately….
for all we know perez could of struck up a deal with one or two banks that involved lets say for the sake of the debate that they give him 250mil cash….and he repays them 70mil of it back by september…then 20mil a year from then on…
real would be able to cope with that quite easily…
theyve biult a new galaticos and they are none the worse off financially for it…
still making profits every year….
they same could be applied to us….we have an agreement with RBS to pay off the loan over a number of years…but with a lump sum due at some point…rumours are its this summer….but i cant clarify this….
the highbury developments were probably viewed to help repay this lump sum…but with delayed construction its left us tight for money…which is why wenger has his hands tied in the market….he will spend…like he has…but it will be wisely…he’ll know his limits…..hes already stated he refuses to banrkrupt the club….which suggests also there is a lump sum involved and its a large one….
he probably was after benzema…as he admitted he was interested in the player..but as soon as teams start throwing sums of 35mil about it leaves us pretty much up shit creek….
until that lump sum is paid off that is….
then we will be able to challenge with the likes of real and citeh and chelsea…but with our OWN cash…generated by the emirates…like we were told when the idea of the emirates was sold to us….
By: JonJon on July 4, 2009
at 12:10 am
i dont think they’ll get 100mil ole…
teams will know those players are in the cold and madrid need to sell….the valuation of those players will drop dramatically….
it will be more like 50mil…it will be like a jumble sale in madrid at some point and it wouldnt suprise me if wenger was there….
By: JonJon on July 4, 2009
at 12:12 am
anyone got skysports one????
time of our lives is on….arsenal 71…
By: JonJon on July 4, 2009
at 12:24 am
[...] Chamakh-In The Ade Out With Laporta Bang To Rights Ready for your daily dose of high blood pressure? Insert your own rant here as Joan Laporta is accused of tapping up [...] [...]
By: Top Posts « WordPress.com on July 4, 2009
at 1:14 am
Interesting discussion, all. Have a good weekend.
By: California Gooner on July 4, 2009
at 1:25 am
So Messers Weber Shandwick Sport “estimates that Ronaldo may well pay off most of his fees in his first year alone, netting the club an estimated £45m per year himself and a combined £106m together with Kaka.”
Well I am Shotta-Gunna Knows Bullshit and Co and this is the biggest heap of dung I’ve smelt in a long time.
Ole and Muppet have done the math and it doesn’t add up.
What is more likely they have scheduled their loan repayments over 5 years based on the likely cash flows from the various sources of revenue on the assumption that this new galacticos will simply steamroll over their opponents in Spain and Europe to ensure ever more exponential growth in revenue. Is anyone outside of Madrid willing to bet the farm on this outcome?
By: shotta-gunna on July 4, 2009
at 1:34 am
RVP…..Click Click Click
By: Gunner4Ever on July 4, 2009
at 6:02 am
shotta-gunna,
LOL.
OG,
I think the words dung heap, bullshit and smell probably conclude this matter. Shotta is a dung heap specialist and he has identified one in this case.
By: Muppet on July 4, 2009
at 7:20 am
Shotta,
LOL. Agree.
OG,
I think Shotta has probably summed this up quite well in his 1.34 post.
By: Muppet on July 4, 2009
at 7:22 am
£300,000 per week for John Terry? When he moves, will he be slated as much as a poor African who was honest enough to say he left Africa for European football for the money? I don’t think so!
By: Passenal on July 4, 2009
at 9:05 am
if you beleive everything thats written in the sun then tescos are opening a new branch on the moon….
By: JonJon on July 4, 2009
at 9:20 am
If Man City are involved, nothing would surprise me.
By: Passenal on July 4, 2009
at 9:22 am
#
Shotta,
LOL. Agree.
By: Mark on July 4, 2009
at 9:27 am
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/van-persie-commits-to-arsenal-until-2014-1731349.html
By: algerian-gooner on July 4, 2009
at 9:28 am
I’m going to put my trust in the delicate olfactory organs of Shotta-gunna.
By: Poliziano on July 4, 2009
at 9:37 am
Why haven’t we got a branch on the moon? What’s wrong with us? Why does Wenger always let us down like this?
By: Queen of Suburbia on July 4, 2009
at 9:38 am
do you think citeh have the pulling power to get terry though passenal
the only thing citeh can offer is money….
terry is already on 150k???? a week….so he doesnt need the money….hes at a club that he loves…that has money themselves and that a more able to win things…plus he plays in europe….what does he need to go to citeh for???
other for the money which he already has lots of…
it was the same with kaka…already well paid…doesnt need the money….so why go to a team thats shit just for the money????
its like etoo and tevez…these are players that can get good wages at any top club it the world that probably wont be as much as what citeh could offer…but it be good enough to keep them among the worlds richest….and will ensure them something citeh cant… CL…..
it may work with players like barry and bellamy and given….
but kaka terry etoo tevez….its hard to see them signing these players…..
By: JonJon on July 4, 2009
at 9:45 am
You’re being rather harsh on Wenger, QoS. He did have plans to have a stadium built on the moon. Flamini, as the only man at Arsenal able to breath in the rarified lunar atmosphere, was to undertake the initial construction; but when he left for Milan, the scheme had to be discarded.
By: Poliziano on July 4, 2009
at 9:48 am
New Post is up
By: Passenal on July 4, 2009
at 9:55 am
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By: Ateeb on July 4, 2009
at 1:32 pm
[...] Chamakh-In The Ade Out With Laporta Bang To Rights (A Cultured Left Foot) “Ready for your daily dose of high blood pressure? Insert your own rant here as Joan Laporta is accused of tapping up Cesc. It was of course entirely predictable since the, ahem, news that Cesc has apparently agreed to sign if Sandro Rosell wins the Presidential elections next summer. In fact, it would be of no surprise if a formal bid were made by the Catalans on political grounds even if they know that it will not be accepted since it will be easy for Laporta to run around chanting, “Liar, liar, pants on fire“, when Rosell makes his claim again next summer.” [...]
By: Football transfer rumours: Peter Crouch to AC Milan? « Scissors Kick on July 4, 2009
at 8:33 pm