If I had to single out the one quality above all others which I admire in [him] it would be his abiding faith in youth.
The words from forty years ago resonate down the ages. In his 1969 book Arsenal From The Heart, former Club Secretary Bob Wall was talking about Sir Matt Busby. No doubt that Arsene would have found favour with Wall in view of his current policy of developing young players in the first team. Unlike any manager before him, the current run has been polarising opinion amongst the support. Interestingly, the overwhelming majority still backs him as the right man for the job; it is his methods which are under scrutiny.
I believe it is a methodology that will bear fruit in the long term. Does that make me more or less of a ‘loyal’ supporter than anyone else. No. Everyone is entitled to their view. Taking the opposite side to the argument is not being a more ‘loyal’ supporter either nor is it a sign that you care more about the club. Pragmatism is going out of the window though. There are seven weeks before January 1st 2009, the earliest date when a new player can join; this is being forgotten in the current round of debates.
There are crucial aspects that do not make the arguments about the balance of the squad invalid but they are susceptible to becoming pointless and fruitless. Key amongst this is the fact that Arsene has a firm belief in the path he is choosing to tread. Having invested time and money in the process, he is mindful that the option to sign experienced players is limited. In his own words, he does not want to ‘kill’ the young players hopes by blocking their path to the first team by signing a player in his mid- to late- twenties, someone who is likely to be in the starting XI for several years.
Wenger has built a reputation within the game for being progressive on this front. It has enabled him to persuade the likes of Clichy, Fabregas, Vela, Bendtner, van Persie, Denilson and Walcott (to name the current beneficiaries) that they have a solid future at the club and that they will be given the opportunity to prove themselves based on talent alone. Wenger’s faith in this is being put to the test, perhaps the strongest threat to his beliefs that there has been since ‘The Invincibles’ broke up in 2004/05. The reaction he gave after the defeat to Aston Villa suggests that he is as baffled by the current indifferent form as we are. For him though there is more at stake: his job, his reputation and the club that he undoubtedly loves and is desperate to be successful with once more.
If Wenger were to abandon this policy now and sign, en masse, the experienced players that are being called for, the implications are more far-reaching than the immediate first team. In the first instance, the players ejected from the starting XI will be disheartened. The clear message would be that they were not good enough. That might also include the word ‘yet’ but the message which registers in their minds will not. Further down the ‘food chain’, a clear signal is sent that Arsenal is not quite the place that it is supposed to be. Youth might be given the chance but not as readily as is portrayed and frankly, if after three months the team’s performance is not good enough, “so long and thanks for all the fish“, even if your form is decent.
This season, it is the experienced players who have been most culpable this season when it comes to apportioning blame for the goals, namely his defence. Yet there are calls for Denilson to be replaced. Is that the right option because arguably, he has been in better form than Fabregas. The latter has built a reputation over the past five years but thus far this season, he has shown sporadic glimpses of his best form. The partnership is, to my mind, unbalanced but the inexperienced player is held to blame. I do not think he is being played in the position that is best for him but if an experienced midfielder is signed, should he be the one to make way? The answer ought not to be as clear cut as people seem to think. If it were made now, there is a strong case for omitting the Spaniard.
So what can Wenger do? Once the last transfer window had closed, he admitted to trying to sign an experienced, more defensive midfielder. As he said earlier this week, he could not find one. That is not saying he did not try to, simply one that he wanted could not be signed. This would indicate that he might well try to sign one in the January window but if you look at the names we were linked with in that time – Toure, Barry, Alonso – what incentive is there to leave their current clubs? Barry has said he will not leave until next summer, Toure and Alonso are in teams with a strong title chance. Whether either of those materialises is another issue and I have strong doubts that the latter’s will. Yet when they review their situation, unless Wenger is in a position to seriously undermine either of those beliefs, it would be an odd move for either to make. There are others of course and the likelihood is that he would sign someone whom none of us had seriously considered. Or heard of for that matter.
There is a misconception about Wenger’s ‘Youth Policy’. It is not the youth that is wrong. Nor is the policy. It is the current form. Can experience rectify that? Possibly. Possibly not. At best, there would have been one new face in the summer. Would that person have rectified the problem? Of course not. One player on their own cannot make that substantive a difference. Even with Flamini, the mistakes made at the back would not have gone away. Looking at the goals Villa scored on Saturday, it is unlikely that either would have been stopped by his presence. In any case, can anyone offer proof that he would have performed to the same level as last season? The evidence of his peers suggests otherwise.
The apparent thinness of the squad is now going to be tested to the limits. Injuries are rearing their ugly heads which puts pressure on the players. Bacary Sagna is out for approximately three weeks which means that combined with Eboue’s woes, Arsene has Kolo Toure to play right back. Even if Eboue returns in the next week, Wenger now faces up to twelve weeks without Theo Walcott if an operation is required. The reported length of absence needs to be treated sceptically until the club comments later this week. Whatever the case, he is likely to be until the middle of next month at the earliest. The right hand side of the pitch is now stretched to its limits. The injury to Walcott merely reinforces Wenger’s view that the current round of friendlies is crass.
No-one said supporting Arsenal was easy. It is a rollercoaster ride with the highs being of such altitude that the lows feel as though they are further down than the deepest trough in the Pacific Ocean. Keep the faith. ’til Tomorrow.























Nice article. level headed and balanced.
By: Ryan on November 19, 2008
at 9:54 am
Yeah, good stuff! Something refreshing to read other than the usual moanings from frustrated gooners!
By: Tonex on November 19, 2008
at 9:58 am
I agree with some of what you are saying but exactly how many chances do these ‘young’ players require? Bendtner, Song, Diaby etc have had opportunities but haven’t taken them. And every defeat will hurt a young player more than an older, more experienced one. Getting booed off the pitch when you’re 20 years old is humiliating – how is this this helping to ‘develop’ them?
True, Denilson is playing well but would you not want a scary-ass ball winner in the middle of the pitch? I would. And then it would be Denilsons aim to become his partner. COMPETITION.
The basic fact is that a lot of the palyers are underperforming or are simply not good enough. Youth has to be given a chance but NOT at the expense of winning trophies.
By: scotty on November 19, 2008
at 9:58 am
YW good article but I would disagree
You out forward a case of all or nothings. Either AW goes for youth( all youth ) or nothing at all. That is not the case of what most critics is saying that AW should do. At least not the well meaning ones that loves the club before AW took over. We are saying that we need balance between kids and more experienced players and those of more complementary abilities or skills sets that will make Arsenal a winning side. We are taking about replacing Flamsters and Sol Campbell type of players.
I am the first to admit that I am still quite enthralled by what these bunch of youths can do on their day. But to win anything serious these days needs to come consistently.
You blamed the more experience players like Gallas and MA for letting the team down but you missed completely that Cesc was the main culprit for most of our seasons problems.
With more experience and perhaps as good players, maybe he does not need to carry the team on his young 21 year old shoulders. That may free him to be his age and his skills may still flourish.
You and AW might want to consider that signing experience players may help the youths development and not hinder it. It provides guidance, steadiness and developing a winning habit.
These inconsistencies and losses recently can not be good for the morale and confidence of these youths. How does that help the Arsenal if that is the case?
Up The Arse!!!!
By: Malaysiangunner on November 19, 2008
at 10:10 am
Scotty
I have said here many times that I do not think that Denilson is the player to carry out the defensive duties in midfield.
However, the point is that the experienced players are the ones who have let the team down more this season than youngsters. You mention Bendtner and Diaby. Let’s not forget that these guys are in and out of the side. Even the experienced players do not come into a team and have the immediate impact required all of the time.
I would agree that youth should be given a chance at the expense of winning silverware but neither should the pursuit of glory be to the detriment of the long term well-being of the club. The business model is such that the club pays it’s way Unless there is a rich benefactor out there, short term gains are paid for in the long term through increased borrowing and consequent interest payments.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on November 19, 2008
at 10:10 am
Come to think of it, I agree with most of the article! Am personally a big fan of Denilson and think he has been the better CM of the two. People are comparing his 3 month performance with flamini’s season long performance!
At the begining of last season, I started an arguement on the sun about who would replace Gilberto alongside Cesc. Diaby and Denislon tied, while Flamini came a distant third! Well, we all know what happened last season, don’t we!
The there is the arguement about Cesc doing alot of the defensive work, thus limiting his attacking prowess! Unfortunately, I don’t see how backtracking and throwing a few tackles can cause him to lose possession as annoyingly as he has done a number of times this season!!!
By: Tonex on November 19, 2008
at 10:10 am
not out forward but put forward sorry
By: Malaysiangunner on November 19, 2008
at 10:11 am
Sorry can’t read it, font too small!
By: Rich on November 19, 2008
at 10:13 am
Malaysia
I didn’t miss out Cesc, he was dealt with later in the article.
Let me put the argument this way. You say sign more experienced players to get balance with youth. Fine. Where and more importantly, can you guarantee that they will not fall into the same inconsistent trap that Fabregas, Toure, Gallas, Silvestre, Clichy have this season?
My point in the article on this is that one player in midfield is not going to make the difference to performances such as Stoke and Villa. Possibly not even Hull or Sunderland. One player will not – to change them requires four or five new signings. Pragmatically that is not going to happen in January.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on November 19, 2008
at 10:14 am
Spot on Scotty.
Perhaps a “scary-ass ball winner in the middle of the pitch” would not have stopped either Villa goal but then perhaps we would have been one up before Villa scored and not chasing the game for their second. It is not so simple Yogi. I’ve often wondered how the outcome of a game might be altered by something as semingly insignificant as a choice of pass or time delay.
This team will not stay together, whether good enough or not, if we do not make progress. At the moment who can doubt that we are less strong than at any time in Wenger’s reign?
To say so does not make me less of an Arsenal fan – I won’t upset Frank by saying supporter-or less of an ardent admirer of Arsene.
Of course we are stuck with what we have for at least a few weeks but this is a site for discussion isn’t it? Speculating about signings is all part of the fun and I am sure that it can’t upset our little darlings who don the red and white avery week.
By: Consolsbob on November 19, 2008
at 10:15 am
Agree with you too MalasianGunner.
Yogi, who said anything about not understanding, and supporting, the Arsenal business model? Do you think that we have no money for signings then?
By: Consolsbob on November 19, 2008
at 10:18 am
YW
I agree , it should have been done before Aug but alas may be 2 may steady the ship abit. One in midfield and another in CB.
Up The Arse!!!
By: Malaysiangunner on November 19, 2008
at 10:19 am
Yogis warrior:
I agree that Diaby needs more playing time and then we can really establish if the’s the real deal or not.
but how can bringing in an expereinced player (or 20) be to the detriment of the club? An experienced midfield player would allow guidance and a steady head when needed. There is no experience (except Cesc) at all in midfield. it will give the younger players something to aim for and someone to compete with. And they might learn a thing or 2.
I honestly believe that Denilson has massive potential but we need a holding midfield player. It is then up to Denilson to become his partner. Competition breeds healthy respect.
The defence is experienced, granted, but I bet if I had all these fancy opta stats and Andy Grays BS software then I’m sure it would show that they do more work then than the other ‘big clubs’ defences as our midfield offers no protection. Don’t get me wrong, some of our defending has been woeful but there would be less to do if the ball didn;t get that far in the first place. I think that makes sense
By: scotty on November 19, 2008
at 10:21 am
Sorry (20) shoudl read 2 in the second paragraph.
By: scotty on November 19, 2008
at 10:23 am
I don’t understand why people think that buying one player is going solve all our issues.
To me it looks like there are more mental issues with this team than technical. Confidence seems very fragile, there is a lack belief and unfortunately this transmits to the fans sometimes as a look of effort.
Take the Carling Cup side, physically smaller and less experienced than their senior colleagues yet they buzz with confidence and therefore appear to have a lot more desire.
Unlike most I don’t lay this at the door of Gallas. I understand he’s not everyone’s idea of a captain but he can be seen before every match trying to gee the players up, he takes time talkin to the young players but the message doesn’t seem to be taken in. Part of being a top professional in sport is to have confidence in your own ability and to be self-motivating, this is why i dont understand why the captain takes so much flak.
To my mind the biggest issue has been momentum and a lot of this is down to being unable to select the same team on a regular basis. It’d be interesting to see how many games Cesc, Flamini and Hleb started together last season. This season the strikers and midfield have had very little chance to gain tust and understanding and this certainly comes across in our league form.
So for me there are some quite serious issues in the team but i don’t think that recruitment is necessarily the answer. Arsene has work to do so lets let him get on and do it and most importantly get behind the team during this time.
By: Eboue's Friend on November 19, 2008
at 10:32 am
appreciate that Arsene doesnt want to kill Youngsters but which youngsters would be killed by buying a CB and Defensive Midfielder.
On performances so far Djourou has far more right to starting place than any other Central Defender but he is not picked – whos killing him ????
Steve
By: Steve on November 19, 2008
at 10:34 am
we seem to eternall developing players. thats no way to be chllenging for a title.also, sick listening to the dinnelsons fault fabregas is playing shit theory. fabregas is playing shit full stop. should have been dropped weeks ago
By: harryo on November 19, 2008
at 10:36 am
this is probably the best Arsenal article I have read in a very long time. It says it all… but unfortunately some anti gunners would stay dismiss the fact which has rightly been pinpointed in this article.
I see nothing wrong with Wenger’s policy but what I find wrong his lack of activities in the transfer widow, if what he wants his youthfulness then let him sign more youths.
Now walcot is out without any very good replacement for him which would have been avoided if we have at least 2 different players in each wing.
We don’t want oldies in our team but then we can still go for some very youthful, sharp players instead of limiting the team to what we have at the moment.
By: soccerfanbase.com on November 19, 2008
at 10:50 am
yoggis, I sent you a message in your email please check it and reply back to me.
By: soccerfanbase.com on November 19, 2008
at 10:51 am
Wenger’s youth project is a massive success, no1 can take that away from him… Just look at the number of players that are having great careers because of him, he has turned average players into household names.
The only problem at the moment is this current young crop of players havent experienced a dip like this before. They dont know how to deal with it, confidence is low, but once they find their feet again they will be alot better because of it.
These players know how far they can go, that is our problem – so when we have a setback it dents us more than other teams. Maybe more experienced players will deal with it better, but for me we will come back alot stronger, just a matter of time and getting that belief back. Even last season everyone nearly stopped believing we can win the title at the start. The form changed that and there was a buzz around the club within a few games. Once that happens again, we are onto something special. Wenger just needs to find a good balance in the team.
By: chris GOONA on November 19, 2008
at 11:05 am
The thing is you can’t compare Cesc and Denilson like for like they are being asked to perform different duties and are tasked differently by Wenger. If you were actually going to do a straight comparison then Cesc has been marginally better.
Cesc has been poor by Cesc’s standards and we are disappointed but Denilson is ordinary we just don’t have the same expectations. He played well early in the season but he has not had a goalor assist in the last 2 months now. He has created half the chances for the team that Fabregas has although he has a few more minutes playing time under his belt. Cesc has by comparison 2/3’s of the tackles Denilson has and 75% of the interceptions again with less time on the park. Cesc has more passes and IMPORTANTLY far more passes ito the final third in fact he is carrying more of the “creator” burden than before. Hlen used to do more of the passing into the final third than Nasri does.
Denilson is ok, Denilson is not the reason that Cesc is playing badly that is crap. Denilson isn’t really Arsenal standard but that’s nothing to do with Fabregas, it’s a separate issue.
Fabregas is actually missing Hleb’s role in his game most acutely and now that we are so one dimensional most of the time in attack and it goes through Fabregas, closing him down, nullifying him, is simpler than it has ever been, he gets less time, less space, he has to make more of the “difficult” passes than before – more f**k ups. Pretty straight forward. He’s going to need to improve, part of that will be tactics, will be building a partnership with Nasri, will be finding ways to be more productive in combining with Theo.
Everybody blames poor old Denilson because teams can go through us like a knife through butter but Nasri and Walcott are really weak defensively, they don’t offer in terms of tracking back what Hleb and Rosicky did for example so Denilson and Fabregas (who is doing a little more defensively than before) are actually not hurting each other they are simply trying to do a job that was done before by 4 or 5 midfielders and now is mostly done by 2.
People shouldn’t make this a Cesc v Denilson argument, with all due respect the problems in the team are not mostly of their making, Cesc is having some problems with his form that’s not Denilson’s fault but Denilson isn’t all that good in reality for the role he has either and that’s not Cesc’s fault.
By: sam on November 19, 2008
at 11:05 am
It’s been a while since I last posted, it’s been to depressing and I lost my motivation to write anything, because I knew it would be bad, but here goes:
My prediction is that AW will not buy anybody in January. He is too proud, it would be like admitting that he was wrong in summer, when everybody was calling for qualitee/expirienced signings. It woun’t happend.
Lack of good signings is one of many reasons why we will be strugling to even fisnish fourth:
Cesc, has been looking tired all season, and doenst work well with Denilson. It’s so obvious it’s redicioulus that we keep paring the two of them.
Sagna, has been a shadow of what we saw last year. We keep saying we have the best LB and RB in the Prem, but that has not been the case in 2008-2009. The two looked a differnt class last year.
Denilson, has been doing OK, but he gets in the way of Cesc, and I’d rather have a 100% Cesc, then a good Denilson and an avarge Cesc. He just isn’t what we need.
Robin and Ade, a leathal paring?? Hardly. Bendtner and ade, not working. Let us see Carlos with Ade please!
Wengers tacktics. Never been his strong point.4-5-1 this weekend was a huge mistake, but one of many. Why the hell go 4-5-1 against Villa at home. Yes it worked against Manu, but to use the same against Villa? Crazy.
By: aintnobodyworryin on November 19, 2008
at 11:12 am
i think deilson works better in smaller tighter space than fab and should play slightly ahead when teams park the bus infront of the goal… fab needs a little more time cuz he is always looking for the killer pass.. denilson keeps it simple with one two’s and making runs into the box..
fab is a lot like pirlo in looking for great ways n directions to control play… he gets stuffed out in a packed midfield with opposition players jumping onto him..
By: jonnyboy on November 19, 2008
at 11:20 am
aintnobodyworryin
Have to agree with disagreeing with the 4-5-1 against Villa. When do we ever play that against lower teams at Home??? Man U was an exception, but Aston Villa, wake up Wenger. We are showing teams too much respect, we should just focus on what we can do best and that is score. Playing a more defensive tactic down bind well for an attacking team who is conceding alot of gaols at the moment
By: chris GOONA on November 19, 2008
at 11:22 am
The reason for our form isnt Cesc & Denilson… its the whole belief of the team. Stop pointing fingers at individuals because Cesc & Denilson have played many times b4 and it has never been an issue
By: chris GOONA on November 19, 2008
at 11:25 am
talk about luck tho… the whole england squad has 1 arsenal player i think (walcott).. and it is he who has to get injured??
just think of the probabilty… damn..
By: jonnyboy on November 19, 2008
at 11:27 am
jonnyboy…. sums up our season mate
By: chris GOONA on November 19, 2008
at 11:30 am
Rich
Try holding down the ‘Ctrl’ key & depressing ‘+’…
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on November 19, 2008
at 11:32 am
Consolsbob
>Do you think that we have no money for signings then?
Substantially less than the sums of money being bandied about by Edelman in the media. The sum always quoted seems to be cash available rather than the transfer budget or includes wages. The total seems big but once you get into the constituent parts, the sums become smaller.
By necessity, the club are not going to admit to the actual sums available but I am cynical. If I see a figure relating to transfers, halve it and the truth is probably closer to that figure than anything the media carries.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on November 19, 2008
at 11:36 am
Scotty (@10.21am)
Before debating experienced players, perhaps someone could define the word experienced.
If Cesc is experienced so is Nasri – 140-odd games for Marseilles / Arsenal / France, only 30 less than Cesc.
To say ‘experienced’ is too vague, an almost mythical figure.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on November 19, 2008
at 11:45 am
I am a JD supporter but shouldn’t we look at it sometimes and recognise that the reason we can’t find anything negative to say about him is because we don’t see him?
Why do we clamour for him as a replacement for Silvestre when we can’t prove that there is a problem with Silvestre? On the back of his performances for us, he has been recalled to the national team and we insist he is not good enough. Could that be because we are used to seeing him wearing the other red shirt? Gallas has done well lately. His partnership with Silvestre works so well that they are touted as the partnership for Les bleus, yet he is taken apart everyday by “loyal fans”. Is it because he’s spent so much time wearing blue shirts?
Fab is playing worse than Song right now but we can’t complain because he is “Fab”. The star of last season deserves enough honesty from us. We should be able to sit him down for 4 weeks (barring the very big games where his mere presence will be disconcerting to our opponents) rather than boo him off the field when we force him to play abysmally. Right now, Denilson is the better of the pair, why don’t we encourage him to remain at this level until Fab returns rather than blame him for Fabs failure. The stats show us that Denilson is spectacular, lets watch him grow (even Flamini was not this good when we first saw him and now his departure is being blamed for our inability to win the “quadruple” this season.
If there is no space for Vela up front right now, let’s have him on the left and Nasri on the right (Theo’s out for now). I think Ramsey is a better passer of the ball than most, so let’s have him partner Denilson. I agree that Diaby has been reborn of late but the only role I can trust him with is that of support striker when we play a 4-5-1. This is also a role that LJW will excell in.
Truth is, I love our back four and our attack but I think our midfield is neither protecting our back four properly (most of the time) because Fab just likes to lose possession (for now) and we don’t create enough through the middle because those killer passes are missing from Fab.
Our counters are dead. I don’t know why cos our guys are young and fast. I just think our midfielders seem to prefer sideways movement to foward movement. Our Carling cup kids, however, have their heads screwed on right.
Steve Coppel said last year that Arsenal was most dangerous when defending corner kicks (because of the speed of their counters). 9jagunner believes this year arsenal looks most vulnerable when defending corner kicks (except Toure is not on the pitch)
I am not happy, but there’s got to be a light at the end of this tunnel
By: 9jagunner on November 19, 2008
at 11:45 am
There is only onee yoooogggiiiiii Warrriiiioorrrr……One Yogiiiiiii Warrioorrrrr…….One YYYYYWWWWWWW……..hats off for today’s article.
“My point in the article on this is that one player in midfield is not going to make the difference to performances such as Stoke and Villa.”
I couldn’t have agreed more. And spot on the issue that its been the more experienced players who have let us down, rather then the young ones.
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 11:47 am
Steve:
“On performances so far Djourou has far more right to starting place than any other Central Defender but he is not picked – whos killing him ????”
That’s exactly the point, we have seen too less of JD to anaylze his abilities or make a judgment. But who do you think can make that judgment? Someone who is at the training ground every day. And according to those people, he is not ready yet to step up to the big stage. Or maybe he is good enough, but the other defenders are ahead of him in the picking. Or maybe Wenger is just trying to protect him, he does not want to make another Senderos out of him. Whatever the reasons, the point is that we haven’t seen enough of him to really make a judgment. So why not trust the people who are better equipped than us to make any decisions regarding JDs starting place.
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 11:55 am
I maintain that Wenger’s policy of showing total faith in the young players is actually counterproductive to their development. By not having enough players with a history of winning and a winning mentality, he is stopping them from aquiring this vital ingredient. Rather than developing these talented youngsters he is now hindering their progress. Even Cesc is suffering from this syndrome.
By: Amos on November 19, 2008
at 11:57 am
Yogi W.
That is a very good point and I am very happy with the input that Nasri has had so far within the team. He has huge potential.
But I was on about a holding midfield player. Is there one of any note within the entire Arsenal squad? I can’t think of one. And that is where I would like to see an experienced player. Someone who knows the job and is capable of doing it.
Doesn’t the the fact that Wenger wanted Alonso, M’Bia or Toure in the summer (if we’re led to believe) acknowledege the fact that we are short in this department (both player wise and experience)?
By: scotty on November 19, 2008
at 11:58 am
I dont get why everyone moans about his transfer policy.
He admits he was trying to sign a CB but couldn’t find one, most clubs were looking for one and who is going to let a first choice CB go for less than a huge sum anyway? Whos to say Toure or Gallas would stay at the club if they were on the bench anyway.
We all know he was after Alonso, but then the Barry deal fell through so the Alonso deal did too. He says he couldn’t find anyone else again.
Then he had a deal wrapped up for Arshavin, only for him to turn it down because he wanted a huge salary.
So its pretty obvious he was trying to get some people in but couldn’t.
You look at the money being spent and its ridiculous. Barcas new coach spent £90m in the summer to take them to the top, Rikjard spent more than £100m at his time at the club. Liverpool and Utd spent £40m odd again and its pretty obvious that its not very viable to base competing on spending that amount every summer, so thats where his youth policy works.
At the end of the day, despite what he thinks, he is NEVER going to come out and say ‘I really think we need a new CB/CM/GK..’ etc. What do you think it would do to the players at the club? He might as well tell them they’re shit. He’ll end up signing someone in January, like Reyes, Walcott in previous seasons but I agree with YW that the problem is consistency rather than the roster.
By: sash on November 19, 2008
at 12:00 pm
one thing i forgot. Does anyone remember the summer before last when we tried to flog Flamini to Birmingham but they wouldn’t have him. Players improve when you give them a chance, just look at Walcott. Nuff said
By: sash on November 19, 2008
at 12:02 pm
YW…
forgot to say well done for a brilliant article!!
9jagunner
Like ur comments there, and i would like to see Cesc rested alot more, Diaby or Ramsey are both more than capable of coming in and providing some new life and ideas in midfield. Silevstre & Gallas have been the better of our CBs which is why they are playing. Without Theo now we have to make changes in Midfield.
I dont think we should keep playing the 4-5-1 away from home either. Diaby is good behind the striker, but only in the less physical games. Man CIty away we should line up to our strengths and stick Van Persie and Ade in from the start, with Nasri and Wilshire on the wings. Age dont matter for me, give him 60 mins the boy has talent.
Almunia
Toure Gallas SIlvestre Clichy
Nasri Ramsey Denilson Wilshire
Ade VanPersie
This team will tear them apart… Wilshire is ready for me to make an impact.. With our 2 strikers back we look alot healthier
By: chris GOONA on November 19, 2008
at 12:05 pm
9jagunner what stats show us that Denilson is spectacular. I have access to complete integrated match stats for my job and Denilson’s stats aren’t better than Fabs.
Denilson hasn’t made as many passes as Fab even though hes played more games. He has 3 assists total, Fab has 4, they are closer in tackles, interceptions and clearances than they should be given that Fabregas has created 39 chances 2nd in the league ahead of Frank Lampard and Denilson has 19. Denilson’s pass acuracy is 86% Cesc’s is 82% but Cesc makes almost twice the passes into the fiinal third that Denilson does. Denilson makes a lot of passes sideways. Those don’t get misplaced but they don’t create much in the way of chances either.
Fab has been poor but on what planet is Denilson spectacular? I wish – we could use spectacular unfortunately all we have is dead ordinary. I think the greatest indictment against Denilson is hes not more effective than a completely off form Fabregas – that’s not a compliment for Denilson.
By: goonerbob on November 19, 2008
at 12:21 pm
Scotty
There is another aspect to this experienced lark. Someone joining from another country is going to
take time to adapt, culturally and professionally. One directly impacts upon the other. Happy at home, happy at work; unhappy at home, etc.
Also, experience in another league is not a guarantee that they will know ‘best’ or adapt to the English game. The PL is littered with experienced pro’s who come to England and fail.
Secondly, adaptation from another English team will be quicker but not many play with the style of Arsenal’s passing so whilst they will, you would think, settle quicker, their game may suffer in the short-term.
Given the mood around at the moment, do you think they will be given that time?
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on November 19, 2008
at 12:24 pm
Age should not really come into it, Ability is the main factor. We have experience in the team Gallas and Silvestre have an abundance of winners medals Toure,Adebayor and Van Persie are not Kids Fabregas was in team that won Euro 2008.
I agree with the philophy of bringing in young players but only if they are good enough. The Denilson Cesc debate is similar to the Gerrard lampard for england Denilson and Cesc are good players but dont play well together.
IF something doesnt work AW has to change something. Again I admire him for his faith in youth but the youth would benefit from an experienced player around. Who says the player has to be in their mid 20’s an elder experienced player in their 30’s could possibly offer the team and the younger players more.
By: Al on November 19, 2008
at 12:24 pm
Chris Goona
I think the 4-5-1 is ok when Adebayor is availiable.
I would like to see us play this formation but with Kolo in the middle of the park he has bags of energy and is not afraid to put his foot in and break up play all he then has to do is give the ball to one of the creative players
By: Al on November 19, 2008
at 12:32 pm
YW. Again, some valid points but doesn’t blooding youth take time? Do they not need to adapt? And do I need to list all of the Arsenal youngsters who litter the English leagues because they haven’t made it?
I am all for youth and love seeing the Arsenal kids but, again, not at the expense of trophies. If they are good enough they will get their chances. And deservedly so.
But there is no escaping the fact that we have no holding midfielder of note within the entire squad. A holding midfielder will help protect the back 4 and help break up the opponents attacks (put very simply I know). And at this moment in time I would rather have an experienced one rather than one still learning their trade.
By: scotty on November 19, 2008
at 12:39 pm
Scotty
Agreed about the trophies but as I said earlier, it is a two-way street unless you think trophies are the b-all and end-all of football.
Let’s look at the Arsenal line-up and take arguably his preferrred squad if fit:
Players who are still ‘learning’ – i.e first full season as a regular:
Denilson
Walcott
Fabianski
Djourou
Bendtner
Players who are adapting:
Nasri
Players who are not ‘learning’:
Almunia
Sagna
Clichy
Gallas
Silvestre
Fabregas
Adebayor
van Persie
Toure
Song
It is not an inexperienced squad. That’s the point. A holding midfielder might well be a solution and agreed we do not necessarily have one who is ready and able to carry out the role. But experienced? Not the problem.
The problem is that experience is being used as a ‘back door’ way of saying we need someone else in midfield. Just come out and say it because as far as I can see, the immediate problem is not lack of experience, it is mental. And the youth are being affected by that as much as the experience.
If the defence was holding together, I would suggest that the inexperience argument might have a larger, more positive reaction. Given that the most experienced area of the team is playing like a bunch of old grannies, that argument to me at least, loses some of it’s impact.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on November 19, 2008
at 1:13 pm
goonerbob, Denilson is 12th on the Actim Index on the Premier League’s official site with 189 points.
Fabregas – 73rd -135 points
http://www.premierleague.com/page/ActimIndex
By: 9jagunner on November 19, 2008
at 1:25 pm
Can I point to an alternative signing that maybe Arsene can make? I’m not the kind of person that tells wenger to splash the cash considering we don’t have much (Hill Wood said something like getting an overdraft if he wanted to spend big). Anyway how about Scott Parker. Tenacious, Tireless, good technique but injury prone is his problem. Could go for £5m considering the Hammers’ troubles and could be a good partner to Fabregas. He has been their best player recently but has been substituted (don’t know why) signalling he may not be rated as highly by Zola but was by Curbs.
By: The Brain on November 19, 2008
at 1:46 pm
9jagunner thanks for the link, but those who want to blame Denilson not just for his own performances, but for Cesc’s lack of form are not interested in facts, which counter their arguments.
Some Arsenal fans seem to need a whipping boy to blame for our current slump and unfortunately, Denilson is this year’s target. He was not responsible for the total lack of tempo and creativity in the team as it is not his primary responsibility. Also, whoever commented on his assists needs to remember that Arsene has been asking him to play more defensively and hold in the middle. I would suggest his assists compare favourably with Flamini, whose principal role was also to get the ball and pass sideways to Cesc. Or has memory turned him into superman? It seems the best Arsenal player is always the one who is not playing for Arsenal at the time.
By: Passenal on November 19, 2008
at 1:48 pm
One of your very best posts, if not the best, YW.
I particularly like the last paragraph that sums up what being a supporter is about.
To me it is not about the ability & quality of play of the personnel but more the temperament, motivation & application.
There should no longer be any automatic choices. Arsene should trust his whole squad & not leave anybody in the team unless they prove they deserve to be there. Denilson, for example, has done just that.
By: Flint McCullough on November 19, 2008
at 2:10 pm
As usual, well said Passenal.
By: Flint McCullough on November 19, 2008
at 2:12 pm
Firstly, I agree with YW about the time factor. A January key signing will need time to adapt.
Secondly, this team could become a real team if it can play itself back to form under the tutelage of Arsene. Nothing bond a team together more than overcoming the odds (bad luck through injuries, referees incompetence, etc.) and finding the formula for success. This calls for patience, and expert tinkering by the manager. They had their highs last season leading from the front, but they couldn’t cope with the loss of momentum through the ill fortune of Eduardo’s broken leg. The Euro 2008, the meaningless international friendlies have all contributed to test this young and lean squad. My friends, like YW says: “Keep the faith, till tomorrow.”
By: Luke on November 19, 2008
at 2:29 pm
Can’t believe Theo could be out for up to 3 months…
Grrr
By: rev on November 19, 2008
at 2:35 pm
Blame blardy Scott Parker…
By: Luke on November 19, 2008
at 2:38 pm
YW:
Trophies are not the b-all and end-all of football. But development is. And this year Arsenal have gone backwards. Not replacing one of Flamini, Diarra and Gilberto was utterly ridiculous. Last year we were so very close but instead of strengthening we have a smaller, weaker squad. That’s not development.
According to the list of players you have posted there are 9 players in the entire Arsenal squad who are not learning. Is that enough? I’m not sure it is. Compare that to Manure, Ch*lsea and, perhaps, Liverpool.
I think we can both agree that the squad is not strong enough and that some senior players are not playing as well as they could (and should) be.
By: scotty on November 19, 2008
at 2:43 pm
Well Scott Parker injured Walcott but I have always rated the guy and maybe we can sign him now. What do u think? Tenacious, Tireless, good technique but injury prone is his problem. Could go for £5m considering the Hammers’ troubles and could be a good partner to Fabregas. He has been their best player recently but has been substituted (don’t know why) signalling he may not be rated as highly by Zola but was by Curbs.
By: The Brain on November 19, 2008
at 2:45 pm
Yogi:
On every point, you make valid points and I totally agree. I love the club more than simply winning a trophy.
How many here that profess solutions watch a game more than once?
To analyze performances of players and a team. You have to watch a defeat or a win, more than once. You have to watch a game simply to analyze a players performance, concentrating on that players performances, to make such judgments being made, on Cesc and Denilson.
Some people think Cesc performance has dipped, what fact do they have to buttress such assesment?
Is it the number of goals scored?
Is it the number of defensive tackles?
Is it pass completion ratio?
Is it total pass made?
Is it miles run?
No most times, it is the emotionally induced feelings from watching a game, where you want the opposition to misplace every pass, concede in the first minute.
I want us to win the title as much as anyone else. If we don’t, tough we will try next time.
By: william on November 19, 2008
at 2:50 pm
Cesc Fabregas looks like he is trying to hard to make an impact. When you do that you sometimes time a pass a fraction late, play too many ‘killer’ balls etc. This is what I feel he is doing and Wenger also said ‘he is trying harder than ever’ which makes sense. He is attacking more and trying to make a big impact. I think he should drop a bit and do more dictating and this is where he plays best.
I tried to argue this on GoonerTalk but they thought I was talking fatigue, I’m talking mentally. He hasn’t lost mental or physical strength just trying too hard. I hope u guys understand what I mean.
By: The Brain on November 19, 2008
at 2:57 pm
I am tired of trying to make excuses for Cesc or explain the dip in form. The most important thing is that it is there. The question is whether this dimnishes him as a player. I think not, but I think he needs time to sort himself out and get back to his Killer best. i don’t doubt for one second that he can, but while we wait, let’s not end Denilson’s career with all our negative talk
By: 9jagunner on November 19, 2008
at 3:06 pm
YW, great article, something I feel a lot of gooners have been saying that goes unheeded in the pub far to quickly. Good comments too. Keep the faith.
By: anderslimpar on November 19, 2008
at 3:22 pm
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Arsenal weren’t as bad as everyone says (although clearly not at their best), and it was not the midfield that was the problem against Villa but the attack and defense (plus of course the ref). Until they scored I had always thought Arsenal would win, and were just the better team. With a better attack we would have been ahead – Bendtner is strong enough on his own yet.
The first goal was a mixture of bad luck with the Sagna injury and Riley not stopping the game (as he had in the first half for a Villa injury) and a mistake from Clichy. The second was also a mix of bad luck (should have been a foul on Vela) and poor defending from Gallas.
We could have also easily scored late on – Ade hit the post and there were a few other chances that could have easily been goals.
And it should also be remembered tat Villa aren’t a bad team, they have a very good manager and some genuine class players in Young, Barry and Agbonlahor and a well organised defence.
By: Paul on November 19, 2008
at 3:34 pm
Nice article, Yogi.
Thanking you muchly for what you do.
By: davebluez on November 19, 2008
at 3:35 pm
Some of this disussion is rather confusing to me.
let me explain:
1)We say we need experienced players to balance the squad
2)Yogi has rightly stated that it has been the experienced players that have been the worse.
3)We agree, huh?
That is illogical, what we are saying is that our experienced players are either not good enough or are not up to par.
How much more experience do we need, more than Gallas, RVP, Cesc, Toure, Silvestre, Ade, Clicy, Sagna, Almunia? this is enough experience that should be able to balance the squad – no?
It is not experience to me which is lacking but fire in their belly for “every opposition”. Look this team could not perform how well we have on occasion if they just didnt have the ability. I believe you can speak to most football supporters and they will say that when we have played well we have played the best ball to be seen, now can we do this week in week out or even change a little when need be? Its mental or why is Wenger “puzzled” ? he knows what he has seen in these players, we must trust him more.
Who exactly is this scary DM player – many of us wanted Alonso, he is definately not scary. please let us be steady in a our views and stop moving the goal posts when it best suits us, and also to say our player isnt good enough. The fact is that Denilson has done great and was not at fault for either goal this past saturday nor at fault for the whole team playing like crap.
God Bless!
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 3:37 pm
That should have Bendtner is NOT strong enough on his own yet. With Ade starting we probably would have scored one or two. Bendtner is not bad, but he is not suited as a lone target man, and doesn’t pull defenders around and worry them as much as Ade does, which then creates space for others.
By: Paul on November 19, 2008
at 3:49 pm
Good refreshing article. Its better than most other gooners moaning about current state. I hope this team will soon prove everyone wrong this season.
By: Isa on November 19, 2008
at 3:51 pm
9jagunner, is it just that Cesc is tired, why does he have to play every minute of every match. I think that Wenger has placed too much on his shoulders, he never gets subbed!
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 3:51 pm
Isa,
I believe this team will, there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel and its not an oncoming train. This team will be great!
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 3:53 pm
Sorry but my point seems to be ignored. Doesn’t anyone agree or not. He is trying too hard to make an impact; I don’t think he is tired.
When you do that you sometimes time a pass a fraction late, play too many ‘killer’ balls etc. This is what I feel he is doing and Wenger also said ‘he is trying harder than ever’ which makes sense. He is attacking more and trying to make a big impact. I think he should drop a bit and do more dictating and this is where he plays best.
By: The Brain on November 19, 2008
at 3:57 pm
How about Yossi Benayoun? I heard he is unhappy at Liverpool.
By: Gman on November 19, 2008
at 3:58 pm
Scott Parker, Benayoun is clever little player. I think when Rosciky comes back and providing he stays fit we would see the best of Arsenal.
By: The Brain on November 19, 2008
at 4:07 pm
The Brain,
I agree that Fabregas is not necessarily tired. If Wenger thought so, I’m sure he would rest him. I think he tries to take more than his share of responsibility, and that constrains him at times. Perhaps that is similar to what you mean when you say he tries too hard to make an impact.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 4:14 pm
Yeah that’s what I wa trying to say yes. Actually I’m convinced and I have been watching himplay very closely. The Aston Villa game was a bit different as he tried to drop deep but I think the movement up fron was lacking.
Here’s his average touch position from against United. See how high he played.
http://www.arsenalcolumn.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/arsenal-2-1-man-united-average-touch-positions/
By: The Brain on November 19, 2008
at 4:21 pm
Poliziano, Wenger seems to think we need to rotate players because many of the players got tired towards the end of last season. He has been rotating quite a bit, why not give Cesc a break? all the forwards have been rotated and every other midfield player, if you get my point.
One more thing due to the Euro’s Cesc has played more than anyone esle.
Brain, I agree with you that Cesc is trying to hard and the team as a whole. We do seem to try some killer passes and often give away the ball.
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 4:35 pm
There is no doubt that Wenger is a great man manager like Harry Redknapp at Tottenham and Alex Furguson. But sometimes he can be a little harsh towards other managers and sometime moans abit when things dont go his way. He normally blames things on the ref. But I have to say he does bring some quality young players through the side.
-Michael
http://freefootballcoaching.wordpress.com/
By: adminmichael on November 19, 2008
at 4:55 pm
I think Fabregas only played one full game over the summer.
Wenger only seems to rotate certain positions, and even then only for specific reasons. We have players who can fill in for Fabregas, so I assume Wenger thinks he is not tired at the moment. In any case, he’s getting a break now, whether he needs it or not.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 4:56 pm
Its not about one full game is it? its about having to play while others were resting, practice also. Glad he is getting a break, I dont think it is because Wenger thinks he is not tired but that he thinks he is that vital to the team. Thats how is seems to me.
Wenger doesnt rotate Cesc, Almunia and the defence. I’m no sure if you would call sivlestre for Toure rotation?
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 5:17 pm
Its funny that Wenger mentions that the players are “tired” perhaps if we had stronger squad and didn’t loan some of squad players out we wouldn’t have this problem.
Totally agree that it’s not the young players that are the problem this season and that the so-called experienced players have been just as guilty. But then, how many of the these players (bar Gallas and Silvestre who have been rejected by other top 4 clubs and are past their prime anyway) have won anything?
I don’t think Wenger seriously believes that the current squad is strong enough to push for major honours but as he does not have the funds to bring in the top players he would bid for if he could, he has to continue to try and develop youth players and buy bargain-basement has-beens like Silvestre.
By: the Big M on November 19, 2008
at 5:18 pm
I wonder if it just Wengers apprehension to play some of the other players i.e Djourou and not necesarily depth – I dont see that problem when we have players like Vela and Ramsey on the side.
How were Gallas and Sivestre rejected? doesnt seem that Chelsea wanted Gallas to leave and Fergie has said he wanted to keep Silvestre.
Cesc has won the Euros, Toure FA and PL, Clicy aswell.
Big M I think your criticism is a bit harsh and has overlooked the facts.
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 5:25 pm
A great article. A definite must read for any Arsenal fan.
By: Balj on November 19, 2008
at 5:28 pm
I don’t believe Arsenal is that dependant on any single player, and I don’t believe Wenger would exploit one of his players in that way.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 5:40 pm
For someone who is keen to champion the virtues of youth it is funny that he doesn’t risk players like Djourou but as some one said earlier it is Wenger that sees him on the training ground and not us.
We have depth in certain positions, but no defensive depth at all, i.e. when Sagna is injured we have to draft in Touré or eboué to play out of position and we now have someone who couldn’t get a game for Man U covering in central defense.
I think the fact that Man u let Silvestre come to Arsenal one of their top four rivals says it all really.
Not sure Clichy was much involved in the invincibles team and Cesc didn’t feature much in Spain’s win.
By: the Big M on November 19, 2008
at 5:43 pm
I think when Wenger says the players are tired he probably means Cesc. But why he can’t rest him more I don’t know – there are some other options e.g. Diaby, Ramsey, Song, who if they are good enough should be able to stand in for some of the games
By: Paul on November 19, 2008
at 5:45 pm
Clichy must have played some part in the invincibes unless he was injured the whole year.
What could Man U do, if he wanted to come to Arsenal? Now that would be modern day slavery.
Eboue is competant enough to play in Sagnas position, or have we forgotten that he was great there? yes he was.
Toure is just off, why I dont know, he was great! We have Song, Djourou also, so really there is a little bit of depth in the team even defensively.
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 5:53 pm
Paul my namesake, I agree with you all the way. get some other players involved and get off of tis over reliance on Cesc.
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 5:54 pm
The team is missing a player with drive and organisational abilities to pick the team up as it starts to go a bit flat – like Flamini used to. He was always urging the players on , even those more experienced than him. This is what is missing.
Also Wenger is not adverse to signing older players when it suits, look at Eduardo for example, there were plenty of young forwards. Did he let Senderos go to Milan because everyone was always on his back for every small mistake? He is replaced with someone equally slow and whose heart is not with Arsenal.
Wenger cannot claim to not purchase experience where it is needed due to stunting youth development and we have no natural leader in the squad to stunt.
By: ps7 on November 19, 2008
at 5:55 pm
As both Alex and I have been called traitors and non supporters I would like to say a few words of hope, we have had major injury crises before and have come out on top, Wilshere will be on the bench or a starter as will Vela when he comes back from Mexico duty, Song, Ramsey and Diably need to be given another chance, but Bentdner really needs a kick up the ass.
We still have a very shaky Almunia, an off form Clichy, a very off form Cesc, Djouru who deserves a chance, Nasri, Ego, RVP, and last but not least two of our controversial favorites Denilson, and the actor Ebuoe, Gallas is inconsistent and not a real captain, and Toure has been a shell since the ANC. Lets hope EDS comes through like his old self, and by a miracle Rosicky really comes back in the new year.
My worry is before Phil had a dislocated shoulder he was a world beater, he came back nowhere near his best.
So does anyone think then we shoud try and strengthen in January?
By: solgooner on November 19, 2008
at 5:55 pm
Firstly Cesc was very important to Spain’s win…..secondly tired does not necessarily mean physically tired….it can also mean lacking stimulation or uninspired…mentally weary..that sort of thing…..that is why it is important that we get behind the team…the supporters can help to inspire the team….incidentally still think that this a peculiar season and Arsenal players are not the only ones who are uninspired….the Mancs are showing similar signs….lapses in concentration…doesn’t take much….so…
Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenal…..Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenaaa aall….Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenal…..Arsenal…..ARSENAL
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 5:58 pm
.
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 6:10 pm
What is happening to Cesc is very normal. Most players have a dip in their desire after winning a big trophy…Most of the Italian team players dropped after the world cup, and like Frank mentioned about the Mancs after winning a double.
Cesc presence in the team under any circumstances or form give our team more confidence and the other team more to worry about.
My concern still remains that collectively, the team doesn’t look serious about the EPL this year. They talk the talk, but they don’t walk it on the pitch.
My belief remains the same though, we have more than good enough team to win….we need that undying desire to win the title and to sustain that desire, and support it with grit. I think the problem is not the play, it’s more the team spirit….Are they all really really fighting for each other as a one unit or is there something behind the curtains that’s dividing the team?
G4E
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 6:19 pm
What happened to Cesc?:|
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 6:38 pm
Yogi your post today should remind us all that your “yoginess” is more sage than ursine.
Hats off to you!
By: Ian Dolent on November 19, 2008
at 6:41 pm
….anyone need a hat by the way?…..
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 6:43 pm
I agree with G4E…especially the last paragraph….also don’t think WG is univerally favoured as Captain…don’t think that WG is consistent enough as CH…hides too often…lost his pace
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 6:45 pm
Man……Frank you got everything in your little stall there?
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 6:50 pm
Little?….I’m expanding…
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 6:51 pm
But he’s Yogi’s Warrior, not Yogi himself.
I’ve seen the Tao of Pooh, and the Te of Piglet. These cartoon characters are wiser than they seem. We could have the Upanishad of Yogi. The reader can decide for himself whether it’s the cross-legged Yogi or the picnic-basket stealing Yogi. Perhaps Yogi bear also liked to meditate. A great deal of his life is undocumented. Perhaps Yogi bear would occasionally permit himself a wry smile at Arsenal fans caught up in maya.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 6:52 pm
….so is my stall
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 6:52 pm
Frank you’ve got a job for me at the stall? I am getting bored sitting home, all so unemployed.
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 6:53 pm
….you been eating the mescaline worm again, Poliziano?….I thought we agreed that I could have it next time….
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 6:54 pm
OK Ateeb…gotta a whole load of shirts needing ‘MUPPET’ printed on em….some French Horns that need uncurling…oh and some whistles that need a clean….I can provide some gloves….oh thats it gloves….reckon people will buy gloves?….oh and mescaline worms…keep them under the counter though…too many hobby bobbies around on match day.
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 6:58 pm
Don’t worry, Frank. I haven’t eaten the worm. I thought I’d try it as a suppository…seems to work.
Wanna go?
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 7:00 pm
Great, I’ll start work on the Muppet shirts, we still need his picture though. Could print his picture in the front. French horns can be uncurled, whistles I’m not too sure about. But yes gloves, we can sell. We can sell loads of them, winters are upon us. RVP likes to wear em, if we give him some for free, maybe he could sign or sew his name on some? Those could make killer money.
“Let’s grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.” As instructed by Pink Floyd.
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 7:05 pm
I always identified with Bubu (sp?) more couldn’t he be Yogi’s warrior?
By: Ian Dolent on November 19, 2008
at 7:06 pm
Picture on the front** Apologies G4E for the typo, again. Rusty I’ve become, over the last month. But I have an excuse. It’s all going to get better, I have a job now.
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 7:06 pm
Oh and I’ve got a line that we could print on the front of a few player T shirts.
“Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is.” (yoda warrior, from star wars)
We can print this on Cesc, Denilson, Theo, Nasri and Wilshere’s shirt. We might run into copyright issues though. Keep them under the stall with the worms?
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 7:10 pm
“Cesc didn’t feature much in Spain’s win.”
Did you actually watch Euro 2008 the big M?
If you did, you might have seen Cesc convert that penalty against Italy to take the team to the final as well as his many match changing performances from the bench.
Also re the defence on the one hand people are crying out for experience and then slating older players as over the hill. Defenders mature later than midfield and forward players and experience helps in that position. Which is why I believe that Wenger is more cautious about throwing Djourou into the first team after what happened with Senderos. If he comes into the team and fails to live up to expectations it will not help his confidence. And it’s not like all Arsenal fans are understanding and supportive of young players finding their way in the team – ask Senderos and Song about how that feels!
By: Passenal on November 19, 2008
at 7:10 pm
I always identified with Bubu (sp?) more couldn’t he be Yogi’s warrior?
Perhaps a frustrated Yogi could summon down some form of monster to devour our 21 Budgie Arse flavoured ice creams?
Smarter than the average….?
By: Ian Dolent on November 19, 2008
at 7:12 pm
I don’t think Yogis experience frustration. Frustration is part of maya (illusion), from which the yogi is free.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 7:19 pm
We haven’t heard from Arse21 today. Maybe he tried some Imodium.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 7:22 pm
Haha. Poliziano, you might be on to something:)
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 7:24 pm
don’t worry Ateeb, the GFP brigade says you’re forgiven
Frank, where is my rubber mole man?
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 7:24 pm
“Perhaps a frustrated Yogi could summon down some form of monster to devour our 21 Budgie Arse flavoured ice creams?”
Hahaha Ian, that was a good one
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 7:27 pm
Well done, Ateeb…you are a natural…you can run my stall anytime…..word of advice….if Poliziano offers you a mescaline worm …do not..and I really mean this…do not under any circumstances…eat it….give to a Spud….no hang on….sell it to a Spud
By the way tell Passenal she is a star will you…cheeers
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 7:28 pm
G4E…posted it and it keeps coming back…whole pack of em….Ateeb, please make sure that the rubber moles are in our catologue….cheers
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 7:31 pm
Ok Frank, I copy.
Passenal you’re a star.
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 7:32 pm
• <—– Flamini is mole
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 7:37 pm
If Flamini has had to sell his mole, he musn’t be getting paid as much as we thought.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 7:42 pm
Actully I heard AC Milan is paying separately for the mole Poliziano
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 7:47 pm
Gunner4Ever
at 6:19 pm
Great post!
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 7:50 pm
They’ll face stiff competition from Alex Ice Cream.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 7:50 pm
…these packs of rubber moles…well…. I just opened the wrong end of the pack..and all these moles fell out…bouncing all over the f***ing place…off the floor,…hit the ceiling….off the cat…kids heads…I mean seriously bouncy things they are…..well I got to thinking…you don’t think that Flamini was using performance enhancing moles last season do you?
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 7:51 pm
gunner4ever 6.19pm
Interesting post, but what if maybe our players have got the desire but are just not good enough at the moment.
Denilson song and diaby were not first teamers last year and they have been made the main men this year, but i think maybe it was too early! but i maybe wrong.. maybe they are ready but just lack the spirit. what is worse?
By: dukeGoonem on November 19, 2008
at 8:12 pm
dukeGoonem,
So we are good enough to play and beat Man U but not stoke and Villa? thats seems a bit off, you think?
I believe the problem is exactly what G4E has stated. What proves this to me more than anything is that Wenger is puzzled about the team, that speaks volumes.
Wenger knows these players and to me no one is able to spot talent as he can. Its not the players lack of ability in my veiw, they abound in talent. If anyone cant see that, something is wrong.
Flamini was no starter either until last year, Diaby and Denilson were also brilliant until the injuries hampered their growth.
If us fans would just stop crying and back this young team through the ups and downs, more ups than downs would be just around the corner in my veiw. As true fans we need to support the team during the match, complain in little if we didnt play good, but get on with backing the team we have.
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 8:34 pm
I agree with Paul N
By: Frank on November 19, 2008
at 8:36 pm
Its always a compliment to have you agree with a statement Frank.
We just need to get behind the ups and downs. I have been as dissapointed as the next arsenal fan but we have to trust the Boss and trust that the potential of this team will overide any immaturity they have. I am backing this team to get it right!
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 8:44 pm
Me too – the team cannot go from quality to rubbish over night. There is something not quite clicking and I’ll leave it to Arsene to identify the cause and the solution.
By: Passenal on November 19, 2008
at 8:45 pm
get beind the team… ups and downs.
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 8:53 pm
Duke, I think Paul N replied to your question and I agree with his reply.
There is nothing much different between this year and last year….all the players are a year older, more experienced this year than last. I don’t believe for a minute that losing Hleb & Flamini or Gilberto who didn’t play last year that much would be the reason for us not doing so well this year.
I could be wrong on my opinion, but I don’t see any other logical reason.
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 9:18 pm
Hmmm…..This feels like an international week. It is. How about diverting to some other topic?
Soooooo Obama won.
Global Warming is a buzz kill.
Chinese are trying to get to the moon. What’s with that?
What’s wrong with the mainstream music?
Global financial Crisis?
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 9:26 pm
Ateeb- Reasons to be cheerful – RVP has scored for the Netherlands – hopefully he’ll bring that performance to the team on Saturday
By: Passenal on November 19, 2008
at 9:34 pm
Passenal- Reasons to be upset- Walcott’s going to get a surgery on his shoulder. That means he will be out for 3 months.
By: Ateeb on November 19, 2008
at 9:37 pm
Ateeb, I know about that, but I’m trying to look on the bright side!
By: Passenal on November 19, 2008
at 9:39 pm
I’m going to repeat something I said before, I think everyone who post or read this blog knows I’m a big supporter of Arsene, but I think the fatal mistake he made was giving Gallas the Armband. Not only because Gallas is bad at it, but also because it gave the young players the signal that it doesn’t really matter if you work your ass for the club, another new player who comes in and did nothing for the club can get it. Why? I’m not sure. Is it because he’s French and the majority of the squad are? Captain-ship doesn’t necessarily require football experience but more of leadership, a strong character to lead the masses and being an Arsenal through and through.
Picking Th14 as a Captain was bit different, because he gave the club so much in 8 years and that is why he was number 1 on the best Arsenal player ever…..the team accepted his captaincy at the time because of what he contributed to the club. There is no comparison with Gallas on this front.
I would have preferred Gilberto to keep going as Captain for two years, until we find a real leader for the team maybe in Toure? I think I would think the whole team would’ve accepted Toure as Captain if Wenger didn’t pick Gallas instead. Now the French players can’t oppose their compatriot and the non French can’t state their desire for the one who really deserved it.
I don’t think Toure’s bad form just happened for no reason, he was going like a freight train for the club before this captaincy debacle by Wenger.
But what do I know?
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 9:39 pm
It’s a shame that Jimmy Bullard didn’t get a game tonight. He’s another possible January signing. I haven’t heard Arsenal fans talk about him as much recently as they did at the start of the season.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 9:51 pm
G4E that’s just your opinion without any facts to back it up. It’s too easy to try to locate the problem with one player, but the captaincy is mostly symbolic. At the time he was the oldest player and Arsene might have hoped it would bring out the best in him. At the end of the day, each player is responsible for his own performance and a professional footballer should look to himself. He is not playing for his captain, but for professional pride, the shirt and the fans (as well as the huge salary and all that goes with it!)
By: Passenal on November 19, 2008
at 9:52 pm
that upson looks a good player!
By: dukeGoonem on November 19, 2008
at 10:05 pm
Aaron Ramsey played 87 minutes for Wales, and seems to have done well. Did anyone see the game?
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 10:09 pm
True that Passenal, this IS my opinion, but are You saying we should do well without a Captain?
I have to be honest, this is the first time I hear that the leader of your troops means nothing more than a symbolic figure!
So if my Captain smokes on the pitch, it’s ok…I will just soldier on picking up his slack. Or if my Supervisor just plays around and do nothing, I will care more about my work?
A leader is a role model and just as important as every individual in the team. Unless world has changed, and I was left behind standing at Frank’s stall staring at rubber moles
By: Gunner4Ever on November 19, 2008
at 10:22 pm
I agree with you G4E as far as the captaincy is concerned, that it is important. It has been important in every team sport ans like you I canot understnd why leadership, all of a sudden is not important. Everyone is not a natural leader so we cannot just say, we should have eleven leaders on the field and obviously we dont.
I’m not sure if Gallas is the reason for the bad play but I do see your point. another thing is it is possible that the players could have thought about last season during the offseason and said this dude made some really bad mistakes, who knows.
Toure would have been my pick for Captain, when we knew that Flam and Gilberto were gone.
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 10:32 pm
I do back Gallas as he is the Arsenal captain but dont understand why I dont see him saying anything when we are down? That just doesnt sit well with me.
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 10:35 pm
YOGI
I dont agree with your proposition that Wenger “abandoning his youth policy and signing en masse the experienced players being called for” will wreck his experiment
Most of us that have been calling for experienced signings are calling for a couple of judicious signings only – ones for positions where we patently don’t have the players ready and the current hopefuls cannot complain about being made to wait another year or two – namely CM and CB
That does not equate to en masse signings
By: alang on November 19, 2008
at 10:40 pm
paul N
I heard Lee Dixon say recently that from his time playing with Kolo Toure he would not make him captian – he said he was a little too quiet and reserved and wouldn’t get into peoples faces
There is no obvious alternative to Gallas to me.
What about Sagna – he’s prepared to put his body on the line and has a steely appearance. At least he could lead by example
By: alang on November 19, 2008
at 10:44 pm
Sagna is just as quite or even more so. Gallas aint sayin in word either recently. Sad to say it but i do think that Silvestre would make the best captain at present. Clichy would be great too.
I just want Gallas to start rallying the team when we are not playing well, he did it at the beginning of last season.
By: Paul N on November 19, 2008
at 10:49 pm
Is it really useful to be speculating on captaincy?
By: Ian Dolent on November 19, 2008
at 11:02 pm
Agree Paul N but Gallas by all accounts is a moody introvert
Ominous that the on pitch huddle has disapeared this season – a clear sign, to my mind of a lack of unity of purpose
Yes – Clichy for Captain – why not? He is passionate and again, leads by example
By: alang on November 19, 2008
at 11:03 pm
Ian
The captaincy is a live issue. I agree though that having given it to gallas, it is very hard for Wenger to do anything until season end unless gallas gets injured. I think, knowing the player Gallas is, if Wenger once drops him, there will be no way back and someone who is still one of our best options may be lost
By: alang on November 19, 2008
at 11:05 pm
For how long have you been Gallas’s friend, alang?
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 11:09 pm
I think that we need a couple of judicious top class signings. I think that we should have had them in last summer (as I posted consistently)
HOWEVER
If it gets to the stage by MID December that we are out of the PL race, then we should hold off in January and let these guys, such as Djourou, Ramsey, Denilson, Bendter, Song and Fabianski get significant playing time for the rest of season and help to bring them on and/or find out whose not up to it (I suspect that Vela will be loaned to another PL side in JAN though I disagree with this)
Then spend the entire time planning and scouting the world with his legendary network to bring in what’s needed to complete the jigsaw and start next season ready to challenge
The only caveat is that we must be sure that what playing resources we have come mid DEC will be enough to fight off Villa for a CL spot
We revise our sights down and go for
4th spot
Best we can do in CL
FA cup with mix of youngsters and some experienced players
Youngsters in Carling
By: alang on November 19, 2008
at 11:14 pm
Poliziano
I said Gllas “by all accounts” is…..moody etc.
and that means not just media quotes but direct quotes by colleages at Chelsea and France – see l-equipe for example
In any event, can you not see these character traits with your own two eyes?
As Wenger says, he can tell a players personality by simply watching him on the pitch and never actually meeting him….
By: alang on November 19, 2008
at 11:17 pm
“I think, knowing the player Gallas is, if Wenger once drops him, there will be no way back and someone who is still one of our best options may be lost.” – it was this sentence that made me realise you are Gallas’s best friend. Be proud of it!
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 11:22 pm
Yes Poliziano
Ok – I admit it, I didn’t want to brag – billy and I are mates (so he’s not actually billy no-mates)
We meet – he bums my cigs, sometimes doesn’t speak for hours – moody bast**d but the ladies love his husky smokers voice and sometimes I get some of the left overs
By: alang on November 19, 2008
at 11:27 pm
“As Wenger says, he can tell a players personality by simply watching him on the pitch and never actually meeting him….”
If Wenger said that, I assume he meant his personality as a football player, or that he spoke without thinking.
By: Poliziano on November 19, 2008
at 11:27 pm
Poliziano
That’s what the great man said and no – he explicitly said he could know a persons personality by watching him play football.
By: alang on November 20, 2008
at 12:07 am
It still boggles the mind!
If it’s not something like team spirit, leadership and self belief then what is it? You can’t just beat United one day, then lose 2-0 on your home ground to a lesser team. In most games we lost to small teams who seemed more determent to win than us. Fulham? Hull at home?
Yet, in other games we played great football and won games, so why do we lose concentration in smaller games?
This current squad should win something, to start having the belief. Don’t forget that most of the current squad did not win anything of notice with Arsenal. I just can’t wait for them to win something because I think it will be like opening the Gates of Football Heaven…..just have the “Freaking” (or like some of my friends like to say “Fcuking”) belief!
G4E
By: Gunner4Ever on November 20, 2008
at 6:57 am
If RvP comes back on Saturday with a match winning performance against Man City, it will show just how his stupidity against Stoke has costed us in the Villa game last Saturday.
Of course I’ll be happy if he does well on Saturday. But it’s so infuriarating to see him get an unnecessary red card for petulance.
By: Luke on November 20, 2008
at 8:21 am
Two fantastic goals from RvP last…one with his right foot…second of those this season…for those right footists who say he is too left footed….I of course am a leftfootist although I can kick with both feet…at the same time..
The question for me is not whether WG is the best captain…rather is his form consistent?…his form has dropped in games we have lost….
When Gallas has had his day…RvP should be captain
By: Frank on November 20, 2008
at 8:23 am
Move on Luke.. it isn’t petulance it is downright spitting anger…he should have kicked Sorensen over the bar…Patrick Vieira was far worse for getting sent off..as was Ian Wright…Manu Petit….Martin Keown…Tony Adams…even worse when central defenders get sent off…this petulance thing is just an excuse for a dig…..by his detractors
By: Frank on November 20, 2008
at 8:27 am
Does anyone know whether RVP was playing on the right for Holland last night. He could play there on saturday in a 4-5-1 with Ade upfront.
By: Steve on November 20, 2008
at 8:29 am
Luke,
RVP is petulant, not in the Viera or Adams way. but in a Drogba or Bellamy way, It gives people ammo against our club and I hate it
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 8:43 am
Excellent….if that great judge of character Arse21 is of that opinion then we really know where we are with the RvP, don’t we?
By: Frank on November 20, 2008
at 8:52 am
Why is it that some arsenal fans cannot spell ‘Vieira’, he was with our club for a long time.
By: Steve on November 20, 2008
at 9:01 am
How is Alonso a defensive midfielder?
By: eboues mom on November 20, 2008
at 9:09 am
eboues mum,
Silence, go make me a pie
By: eboues dad on November 20, 2008
at 9:12 am
Frank,
Sorry frank, I didnt mean to disagree with you then. I take it back.
What else shall we agree on?, tell me please
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 9:13 am
Run out of Imodium, Arse21?
By: Poliziano on November 20, 2008
at 9:18 am
No, I just picked up the wrong bottle. I picked up the Senakot
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 9:21 am
That seems to happen rather often.
Why not throw out the Senakot, since you have so little need for it?
By: Poliziano on November 20, 2008
at 9:24 am
Frank
Sorensen baited RvP and he swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Petulance or stupidity? It doesn’t really matter. The result was a red card that we could have done without. That upset me, his team mates probably and AW I’m sure..
By: Luke on November 20, 2008
at 9:26 am
Poliziano,
Why do you and frank always attack me personnaly jsut for having my own opinion.
Its not that i care, its actually quite funny and gives me a chance to be immature
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 9:32 am
Arse21,
I like the Arsenal players. You always attack them in offensive ways.
To me you seem excellent at creating your own chances.
By: Poliziano on November 20, 2008
at 9:39 am
Poliziano,
I dont attack them, I criticise (spelling maybe wrong, just in case) them when I feel they;ve let themselves down. Alot of people died to give me that choice
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 9:45 am
Please, Arse21, name one person who died to enable you to insult Arsenal players without risking criticism.
By: Poliziano on November 20, 2008
at 9:49 am
Naaah, Luke….I doubt if it upset anyone…they will have been too upset about the fact that they were losing etc, etc…we need some attitude…Arse21…you mention Drogba….I think that Drogba and RvP up front as a pair would have ripped the opposition apart….in my opinion not enough of our players get sent off…..Sorensen baited RvP…so Sorensen says…either way if you kick someone over the bar every now and again it gets it out of the system…..and that to me is the crux…we need to play with more freedom….get stuff out in the open….we are too retentive…too controlled….in other words we need to let f***ing rip from time to time.
At the end of the day our comments probably reflect our own personalities….except for Arse21…he is just always plain wrong.
By: Frank on November 20, 2008
at 9:50 am
Poliziano,
I’m not insulting them. I’m insulting you, big nose.
Frank,
Agreed about the attitude, but not drogba style, he’s a mug and I wouldnt want him in the shirt at any cost
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 10:16 am
I think that Drogba is the battering ram that Ade aspires to be…as to wearing our shirt…out of the question as he is now the enemy.
DB10…there is another fellow that liked a red card from time to time….I don’t want us to be top of the fair play league anymore….about the middle of the bottom half will do just fine.
By: Frank on November 20, 2008
at 10:23 am
btw, Luke…I hope that the reaction of the team to RvPs sending off and the tackles on Ade and Theo are…..don’t worry guys the next time we play Stoke..Sorensen and his mates are dead meat….they will be given a demonstration of football like it has never ever been played on an English pitch before…and I sincerely hope that the supporters play their role.
By: Frank on November 20, 2008
at 10:31 am
I watched last night’s match between Denmark & Wales (or Bendtner vs Ramsey).
Those two were probably busiest although not producing a goal. The commentators kept saying these two names, and at one point they said they felt like commentating an Arsenal match.
Anyway, Ramsey was busy, but one could sense that he just tried to hard on his debut, which is perfectly understandable. He faded away later in the second half and looked very tired. Although I have to say it was quite good performance, I’m not sure how he’ll do against ManCity. He looked really that tired. Hope some nice caerphilly cheese will set him up nicely!
By: TC on November 20, 2008
at 10:42 am
I’m worried about Theo, he’s obviously got extremely weak shoulders. I hope this doesn’t affect his long term career. Poor sod must be gutted
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 10:47 am
Theo needs a shoulder to cry on right now… mainly because his are so flimsy.
However, I’m sure the problem can be rectified with surgery. I’ve not kept up with the news; is this his other shoulder?
By: Big Al on November 20, 2008
at 10:53 am
Big Al,
Yeah its his other shoulder, and apparently on the way to the hospital both his legs fell off
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 10:58 am
RVP seems to be on form.. lets hope for the best against man city…
great shots on goal..
By: jonnyboy on November 20, 2008
at 11:09 am
along with 2 gr8 goals… and that too playing on the right.. (i think)
By: jonnyboy on November 20, 2008
at 11:09 am
Get him the same Titanium bolts that Rosicky was fitted with. The next time our players get injured, titanium bolts should be fitted in. We’ll have our titanium red army by next season’s time. No more complains of injuries, and lack of physicality. We’ll give everyone a fight.
Frank, that was a good way to see RVP’s foul. I agree that the team needs to be aggressive and more vocal, when referees and challanges are concerned. They don’t make a fuss about any deciusion.
By: Ateeb on November 20, 2008
at 11:12 am
Good then. There shouldn’t be any long-term worries with the shoulders. Not that I’m a physio or anything.
Legs can be sorted out by replacing the elastic band at the hip. It sounds like Theo’s has snapped and that’s what keeps the legs attached. It worked for my G.I. Joe back in the day.
By: Big Al on November 20, 2008
at 11:17 am
It is funny how fans become amateur doctors when they talk about players’ injuries!
By: Big Al on November 20, 2008
at 11:18 am
**Newsflash**
Theo’s head has fallen off due to tiredness.
Wenger has said “It was only a matter of time before somethig like this happened”
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 11:22 am
Ateeb
Why stop at titanium bolts. Give him the full outfit and he can be totally protected on the pitch. And when there isn’t a game, he can be used by the police force to tackle crime.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on November 20, 2008
at 11:27 am
Maybe stick Iron man up front with Eduardo running off him
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 11:34 am
Yogi,
The site of titanium robots excites me now. Well not exactly robots, no AI, but the titanium suits. Maybe we can start a trend, and sell some at Frank’s stall.
By: Ateeb on November 20, 2008
at 11:43 am
the sight** UGH!!!
Sorry G4E:)
By: Ateeb on November 20, 2008
at 11:48 am
Ateeb
Better make sure that there is hole in the suits for Frank’s whistles…
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on November 20, 2008
at 11:54 am
I heard a rumour that Frank sells fugazi’s on his stall
By: Arse21 on November 20, 2008
at 11:58 am
[...] League cup and they hold a lot of promise for the future, but what about for the now and present. There is a great article by “A Cultured Left Foot” which I believe is one of the best I have read in recent times. Wenger has himself to balme for [...]
By: It is the rich Man City vs the poor-strength Arsenal « About all the football that I get to watch and about some I dont on November 21, 2008
at 11:17 am