Cesc spoke yesterday and encapsulated everything that we have been saying in one press conference:
We have a short squad and we are very young. Behind me Denilson and [Alexandre] Song play, and they are 20. [Theo] Walcott is 19 and [Samir] Nasri is 21. Can you imagine I’m the oldest midfielder? Winning will be tough for us because we are not experienced.
Winning is tough in any arena, not just football, but there is a decent fist being made of it, the team sitting fourth, four points off the pace is a nice position to be in. Of course, it could, and should, have been better but there is no use in crying over spilt milk.
Anyway back to young Fabregas. It is somewhat incredulous when you think of him as the oldest player but not necessarily a bad thing for age brings experience, in his case anyway. He made it clear that he misses Flamini and Hleb, in particular, although that is through friendship as much as the playing side. In the case of the latter, time will tell but I believe Arsene has found a more direct replacement. It struck me last night that the Belarus team that took on England suffered from ‘Hlebism‘ at times when they passed rather than shot – although they managed plenty of those in the first half – so it is a football culture issue by the looks of things.
Fabregas’ comments about the policy of promoting from within are open to interpretation:
Arsene Wenger has crystal clears ideas, there aren’t two like him. He doesn’t want to spend money as he prefers to trust youngsters. His idea is that Walcott can’t develop if you sign Cristiano [Ronaldo].
It is not a ringing endorsement but not outright criticism either, diplomacy has long been a virtue that the Spaniard has held with his media dealings. Perhaps he is a little unsure of it, that would certainly be my view of the overall tone of the comments, wanting to wait until the season is over before passing detailed analysis of whether it is right or wrong. I am not as convinced as others seem to be that he is frustrated, more a little unsure, perhaps aware of the responsibilities that are placed on his shoulders in terms of being the fulcrum of the team.
It is interesting that he thinks the team are more direct this season. Perhaps that is true in that the flanks are more readily utilised to stretch a defence and when Eboue, Walcott and Nasri are in situ, there is less desire to come inside rather than work the width of the pitch.
The supposed weakness in midfield has not materialised thus far – hints of it shown at times – but overall, Denilson has stepped in well, taking his chance in light of Diaby’s absence. Whether the Frenchman will now step forward as he returns to fitness remains to be seen. His record suggests that he cannot be relied upon yet, a full season injury-free has not been produced. As this campaign progresses, Diaby needs to be available in order to allow Arsene to fully utilise the squad and prevent fatigue becoming an issue as the games come on a more frequent basis between now and the New Year.
Patrick Vieira though has no doubt that Cesc will be a ’star’ of the game – if he is not one already – but added a proviso to that:
He is one of the best. In the years to come he can be at the top. I think if the club matches the same desire as the player, then why not?
It is a big if but not also the only factor that must come into play; consistency and luck in equal measure will play a part in any success enjoyed.
Martin Keown noted that the fact that the current squad is being filled with youth players being promoted is a good thing:
The current crop are brilliant, I think if you can get a young group that come through the system together, they really love the Club – like I’ve always done – and they retain that. Maybe they also give that bit extra.
It is certainly an advantage to have players who feel some ‘loyalty’ (for want of a better word) to the club. Perhaps there is more desire to win if you have come through the ranks although I am not sure of that. Keown went on:
The future looks very bright for Arsenal, but it’s about ‘can they win something?’. I don’t care what it is, but any trophy. It breeds the winning mentality.
That is the biggest hurdle I think that the squad has; the first trophy. Once that is in the cabinet, then a mental barrier has been overcome. They have the talent and proving to themselves that they can win things will make things seem a lot more straightforward.
’til Tomorrow.























Assuming he actually said this, Cesc is merely echoing what some of us on this blog have been highlighting for a long time.
Does this show a wavering of belief from Cesc? It shows that he is missing Flamini and Hleb which some people on this blog refused to acknowledge. many of us made the point that these two would be a big loss and noted the potential impact it could have on Cesc. I think that his lack of form says all you need to know about this.
Does this make Cesc a “doomer”?
By: Alex Ice Cream on October 16, 2008
at 11:04 am
I think Cesc really enjoyed his football last year alongside Hleb and Flamini. They were 2 vital members of our squad, Nasri hasnt really played alot as of yet, i think Cesc will enjoy playing with Nasri.. CM though Cesc has to be patient, Diaby seemed to be Wenger’s 1st choice, but obviously got injured. The others have all come in and done well though. Age is probably still a concern even if everyone is fit, but if they are winning football games why should he care? Its only now where we are going through a dip in form where the uncertainty will always kick in, once we find our feet again the same hype will come back!.. goes from one extreme to the next.
By: chris GOONA on October 16, 2008
at 11:13 am
Spot on, Alex IC,
You are scintillating today!!
By: Naga gunner on October 16, 2008
at 11:21 am
AIC
The impact on Cesc is more of a personal nature – Hleb and Flamini were two of his closest friends at the club.
It is interesting the intrepretations that being put onto what he has said. I think Passenal hinted at it yesterday when she noted that the comments showed his age. He is still young and we sometimes put too much expectation on his shoulder – next captain, he’s injured, what are we going to do.
I don’t think he is a ‘doomer’ nor do I think he is backing that viewpoint. To me, they read as the comments of a young man looking for leadership from a more experienced colleague or at least one of those players to share some of the burden.
The problem is that, I understand, this is an interview given to the Spanish media so we are reliant – at the moment – on the interpretations of the UK press.
If I get time, I will hunt around for source material.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on October 16, 2008
at 11:30 am
Yogi,
I agree that the impact was also of a personal nature but to say this was more than on the field would be to assume that you know exactly what Cesc is thinking which is not possible.
Cesc mentioned how much he liked to play alongside Hleb for his passing and Flamini for his energy so I think Cesc was also talking about the football field and not just his personal life.
Eihter way Cesc’s form has suffered notably. I take the point that Passenal made about Cesc needing some leadership. This goes for the whole team and it is not obvious where this will come from. Flamini was a leader as was Senderos despite his flaws.
I think that this puts Gallas’ captaincy in a more dubious light (not that this is new) and also highlights again the lack of leadership in the team as a whole. You have to look at AW and say that this was always going to be a problem when so many experienced players left for whatever reason and were replaced by younger players.
The squad has been missing some experience for a while and now that Cesc has said this AW should take note.
By: Alex Ice Cream on October 16, 2008
at 11:44 am
Cesc is absolutely right! He took the words right out of my mouth. And we really shouldnt be surprised. I think this is more serious than what Yogi makes it out to be, and it has been coming all along!
Just looking at it objectively, WHO can blame him for wanting to leave? He can walk into any team in the world instead of changing nappies every year and that too, AT LOWER WAGES!!
Another thing that struck me is the question: How much pressure are we putting on a 21 year old? Cesc has talked about being the “old man” and he definitely has a point.
At his age he should be BLOSSOMING, standing on the shoulders of experienced teamates around him, not adjusting his natural game to compensate for the teams weaknesses.
Going by his comments, he sees that it is so plainly CLEAR that we are not going to win the title this year, with our present team. And it seems he is weighing up his options to find success elsewhere, and I dont think anyone should be surprised.
Its just a case of an intelligent person starting to make an intelligent decision!
By: Naga gunner on October 16, 2008
at 11:46 am
Alex
The crucial point to me was that he said Hleb was like a brother and that he felt weird. That suggests that it is more of a personal nature and that he is adapting to that change.
The style has changed in that there is no-one specifically mopping up around him. Is this a bad thing?
That his form has suffered is not quite as simple as the change in personnel. He looks tired. He might have had an extra week or two off but does that really allow him to recharge his batteries, especially since one of those weeks was probably spent touring Spain with the rest of the national squad in celebration.
Naga
Where did Cesc say we are not going to win the league?
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on October 16, 2008
at 11:53 am
Yogi – He also made a comment about Flamini, Hleb and Rosicky covering every blade of grass. I am sure that there was a personal element, but that says to me that he is missing the experienced players to play beside.
Everyone and their brothers were saying that Arsene needs to open up the chequebook and he didn’t do it. Now Cesc is saying it and Arsene better listen or we could be losing one of our biggest stars not even close to being at the top of his game….
What a travesty that would be….
By: Begeegs on October 16, 2008
at 12:01 pm
what cesc said is spot on. and we wont win the prem or CL with this team, if we can hang in there till jan and get proper replacements in then we might have chance
By: Arsenal Tom on October 16, 2008
at 12:05 pm
Yogi,
Some “quotes” from Cesc:
“Every week I chat to Alex Hleb on the phone because he’s the guy I most miss at Arsenal,” continued Fabregas. “He’s a friend and I also loved playing with him.
“He always looks for you with a pass and if you give him the ball you can always count on getting it back at the right time.”
I scored 13 goals last season but then I had plenty of allies. Rosicky was around, Flamini covered every blade of grass and Hleb was like a brother to me out there.
“The team played with a lot of skilful touches, we were as solid as a brick wall and our opponents would not get a look in.
“Now none of those players and in the side and I feel like a rare being. We are more defensive-minded and sturdy as a team but we don’t play so much skilful stuff.”
It is clear that this is in relation to the field of play as well as on the personal side.
I accept the point that there could well be other factors in Cecs’s relatively slow start but the loss of Flamini, Hleb (and Tom) has definitely had an effect.
By: Alex Ice Cream on October 16, 2008
at 12:06 pm
I lament on these issues everyday, it annoys me when Wenger trys to brush them off with claims he has a strong squad!
Who is AW trying to decieve. I know there are some fans including even myself always going on about how better the squad will be in the future, when this policy cant even guarantee they will stay!
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that the balance is not right – we play players out of position, injured players dont get match fit before been thrown into big matches.
We need to all wise up it will take more than we have in our guns now to make this dream of the title a reality!
By: bob on October 16, 2008
at 12:10 pm
virtually sounds like a man starting to think about a move. he’s getting his excuses in early. its certainly a shot across the bows for wenger. he’s saying either act in january or i am off in the summer.
wenger let cesc down by letting Diarra, Flamini and Gilberto go and then trusting their positions to Song and Denilson instead of buying a top class player. great players like cesc are not stupid, they can see when there is something missing from the team and its clear that something is missing from our midfield. I dont blame cesc for saying it – I feel his frustation.
By: gazzap on October 16, 2008
at 12:13 pm
Yogi..
Sorry…
I meant, going by his comments, I can see that Cesc is SUGGESTING that we wont win the title! I think he sees the problems we have.
“It will cost us and make it hard to win because we do not have experience.”
You got me on that one!!
Cheers!!
By: Naga gunner on October 16, 2008
at 12:13 pm
would anyone blame cesc for leaving??
i wouldnt!! we’ve not matched his ambiton and gone backwards from last year. he’s one of the best midfielders in the world and being played next to shit like song, and eboue must be soul destroying!
By: Arsenal Tom on October 16, 2008
at 12:16 pm
AIC
none of those players and in the side and I feel like a rare being. We are more defensive-minded and sturdy as a team but we don’t play so much skilful stuff
If that is the case, he needs to adapt his game. The crucial thing as well is that the midfield has not been settled this season thus far with injuries playing a part. He has come from a scenario where the side was fairly settled and now it needs to get back to that.
One thing is certain though. He is the only one who knows whether he was being critical of the current situation – I don’t think he was for he did not have anything negative to say about the players – or as I think is more likely, he was merely articulating his own sense of flux.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on October 16, 2008
at 12:20 pm
Yogi,
I wholeheartedely disagree. Last season Cesc was scoring goals and in my opinion was the best player in the world.
Why should he be made to change his game because Arsenal are unable to hold onto their players and unable to replace them adequately (Flam)?
Why do we need to change the strongest part of our game? Why should Cesc be saddled with defensive work which is not his strong point beacuse of the lack of a quality defensively-minded player?
I agree with gazzup that this sounds like someone who is at least thinking about leaving and is getting his excuses in early. I for one am worried about this and have been for some time.
Cesc needs a world class partner not a converted centre back who by AW’s own admission does not have the energy to play in CM or a worse version of himself who he has to cover due to his lack of defensive nous.
Who could balme him for wanting to join another team if we win nothing again this season?
By: Alex Ice Cream on October 16, 2008
at 12:35 pm
adapt his game to not playing skilful stuff? what a great idea. Let;s see how well we do as a sturdy defensive minded team lol
He may adapt his game – he might adapt it to another club where he will get to play with people he wants to adapt his game too.
Over the last four years if you read Fabregas interviews, one theme comes up over and over. paraphrasing – “Arsenal play beautiful football, I believe in that style of play. I am very happy here because more than just winning things I love the style of football the club and my team-mates play”
What he is suggesting is that is gone. He won’t move for trophies, or for money, people are wrong… but he will move to a club where he gets to have even a smaller role in “beautiful” football because he is actually a true believer.
By: sam on October 16, 2008
at 12:38 pm
just when I thought we were making progress on this forum, Gazzap brings up Diarra again. When are you guys going to recognise the fact that the man is NOT the solution to our problems. And by the way…..neither is Diaby. Maybe we do need to buy, but I really doubt it. I think the personnel we have can come good. Maybe Fab stood out because he had to fill a specific vacancy. He could very well be filling another right now and that is why the stats show Denilson as our best player. Was he anything near our best when he played without Fab? Let’s stick to the issues here. We NEED TO WIN, and if Fab has to look bad (coincidentally, I think he’s been looking really fab lately) or play deep for us to achieve it, it’s okay by me
By: 9jagunner on October 16, 2008
at 12:40 pm
AIC:
Where exactly do you think Cesc should go to then? A.C milan, to be with his best midfield partner or to Hleb, his brother? Clearly he’s not going to do something like that, I mean it is them(Hleb and Flamini) who jumped the ship. And since when have players left club to play with their old friends and people they are used to playing with? Yogi’s right in pointingt out that he needs to adapt to the new game( direct or defensive or both or whatever it is these days).
Last year we all recognized our defensive vulnerabilities, and if Wenger has decided to sort that out with a more defensive approach than whats with all the whining? And its been 5-6 games, for F*** sakes!!!!!!!! How about being more patient for a change?
By: Ateeb on October 16, 2008
at 12:48 pm
Ok…well not clearly, but it would be really stupid if moved to barca to play with his buddy hleb or to Milan because he was a good partner. Secondly, even if he moves, judging from the games Flamini has had so far, they might manage 5 games together.
By: Ateeb on October 16, 2008
at 12:51 pm
Its all about Wenger matching Cesc”s ambitions.If the january transfer window passes without us buying a CH and THAT DM then Cesc can turn around and say what direction is the club going in.
By: Peter Storeys Budgie on October 16, 2008
at 12:51 pm
Ateeb,
I am just commenting on what Cesc has (supposedly) said. I don’t know where he should go – I want him to stay at Arsenal.
As for making the team better defensively I have a great idea for you: get some defenders and especially midfielders who can actually defend and let the attackers do what they do best.
Making our most potent weapon play more defensively to the detriment of his game is stupid in my opinion. Could this have been avoided if we had a “real” DCM? I am hoping someone steps up to plug the gap.
I agree that it has only been 6 games but for Cesc to say this is worrying. The number of games played is irrelevant.
By: Alex Ice Cream on October 16, 2008
at 12:56 pm
Ateeb…
Believe me, if cesc said tomorrow that he wants to leave, there will be no shortage of clubs wanting to buy him. He will be snapped up in days!
Cheers!!!
By: Naga gunner on October 16, 2008
at 1:00 pm
AIC
Why should he be made to change his game because Arsenal are unable to hold onto their players and unable to replace them adequately (Flam)?
A dangerous road to go down. Who dictates the team’s tactics. To a certain extent, the players can force a manager’s hand in terms of their abilities but this is a squad being built by Wenger from scratch.
One thing to consider is that maybe Wenger wants the side to be more disciplined defensively and more direct on the flanks. He may have perceived the constant coming inside from the left as a weakness that needed to be addressed.
As for DM, he tried to address that but for whatever reason, it did not come off in the summer.
The whole panic that is setting in based on an unproven base: Cesc has not said he is going to leave. Anyone who says that claims to know what the player is thinking something that was pointed out to me this morning could not possibly be the case…
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on October 16, 2008
at 1:02 pm
AIC:
“Making our most potent weapon play more defensively to the detriment of his game is stupid in my opinion.”
Well as long as it serves the purposes of the team then so be it. Many great playmakers play in the deep, there is nothing wrong with that. Pirlo comes to my mind in the moment. Cesc is a CM, he has to get his defensive side up and running, there are no two ways about it. Even a Flamini sort of a Dm wouldnt change that. If Cesc’s style of play brings result to the team as a whole, than I don’t think he should complain.
“I agree that it has only been 6 games but for Cesc to say this is worrying. The number of games played is irrelevant.”
Well it’s all up to how you interpret his comments that would tell if it’s worrying or not. As for number of games being irrelevant, that’s not giving progress or development it’s due role in football. Who is out there to claim that Denilson, or Song, or Diaby, can’t be better partners to Cesc. They are all technically better than Flamini. And the last time I checked, nobody saw Flamini filling in the DM role at the start of the last season. So how about we have such discussions, by the end of January? When we have empirical evidence to make our judgments, and not our attachment to Flamini and other workhorses or an out n out defensive midfielder to suit Cesc.
By: Ateeb on October 16, 2008
at 1:06 pm
Above post:
“If Cesc’s style of play brings result to the team as a whole” Should read
“If a sacrifice of Cesc’s previous style of play brings result to the team than so be it”
By: Ateeb on October 16, 2008
at 1:08 pm
9, I think diarra along with the other 2 players we let go is very relevant to this debate when we are talking about a lack of midfield quality. I was not saying Diarra was without problems because I dont know whether he had a destabilising on the team. But the truth is whenever he pulled on an Arsenal shirt, he was class. I dont think I ever saw him have a bad game for us, which given how much he was in and out of the team suggested to me he was an excellent player. Tony Adams says he cant beleive we let him go and more recently that they beleive Diarra is one of the best midifielders in the world. Pompey know they wont hold on to him. at pompey he is not in a good team right now and is not that comfortable. I tell you what though – I’d have him back in a flash.
He was as big a loss as Gilberto and possibly Flamini given that we had no control over Flam who decided to leave even though we played him EVERY game and offered him a new contract. Gilberto was getting old so only has a couple of years left in him at prem league level. Diarra was the only one who could have been convinced to stay by being given games and who had a genuinely bright and long future.
Losing 1 of them was bad enough but 3?? Thats bloody careless.
By: gazzap on October 16, 2008
at 1:15 pm
Ateeb, its not about whether denilson or diaby are good – yes we know they are good and Denilson is playing well, but they are not the same sort of player as Flamini or Diarra. why do you want 4 attacking midfielders trying to adjust their game to play defensively? its plain daft and it wont benefit arsenal to have round pegs in square holes.
By: gazzap on October 16, 2008
at 1:18 pm
All pointing to the notion that belief is what the team is missing this season.
By: Ole Gunner on October 16, 2008
at 1:20 pm
You are all going overboard here!!… step back and take a reality check, Cesc is missing the skillfull touches of Hleb, and Flamini’s constant running – big deal. Shall we all cry with him or look at the bigger Arsenal picture instead? Cesc isnt the kind of player that will release comments to the media to cause his own club a fuss. He is simply saying how he misses playing with them, just leave it at that.
Look at what we have got, not what we have lost. Our midfield consists of many youngsters… but they are all ready to step in – Diaby, Denilson, Nasri, Song, Ramsey, Eboue.. they can all do a good job this season. Ramsey is the one to watch for me this season, Denilson is technically great, and a good passer, but Ramsey is the complete CM package, he looks so mature even at the tender age of 17. Any1 who watched him for Wales the other night can see we got a player.
I think we are in the same situation as last year, Denilson is slowly making that spot his own – he isnt a Flamini but is doing a good job. Diaby for me could come back and be that CM we have been trying to replace Vieira with for a long time now. Gilberto was reliable but no Vieira, Flamini was just tireless worker. To say our midfield is worse off than last year is very premature at the moment, we may have had Diarra, Gilberto & Flamini but how many of them played at the same time? I trust Wenger to get it right, once we find some form we will be flying, remember 3 of our 4 midfielders have been changed.
Last season: Rosicky-Flamini-Cesc-Hleb
This season: Nasri-Denilson-Cesc-Walcott
I think Cesc will feel the difference!!
By: chris GOONA on October 16, 2008
at 1:25 pm
“Flamini was just tireless worker”, Just? Just??
By: gazzap on October 16, 2008
at 1:31 pm
“Believe me, if cesc said tomorrow that he wants to leave, there will be no shortage of clubs wanting to buy him. He will be snapped up in days!”
And if he played in any other team he would have to adapt himself to suit their style too.
Cesc himself has recognised that he needs to be more defensive in relation to his role within the Spanish team, so I do not see what is wrong with him also developing that within the Arsenal team. The whole team needs to attack and defend together.
Cesc and the team just need time to adapt to the changed circumstances. Arsene did not get rid of Flam and Hleb out of spite – they both engineered a move away from Arsenal and Cesc (despite him pleading with them to stay), that’s how much playing with him meant to them. A world class player should be able to adapt his game to the circumstances in which he finds himself and this will happen with time and patience.
By: Passenal on October 16, 2008
at 1:33 pm
Passenal..
You are getting me wrong, mate. I dont have a problem with change of style. The problem is that we lack experience and proven quality in vital areas.
If flam left we should have replaced him with someone who would have given us what flam would give had he been playing for us THIS SEASON. And the reason flam left was because of BAD MANAGEMENT, period, but lets leave it at that!
The matter of concern is not about change of gameplan, but its about cesc having to change his natural game to PATCH UP deficiencies in the team!
Cheers!!
By: Naga gunner on October 16, 2008
at 1:47 pm
do fans not understand Diarra WANTED to go..meaning NO point in keeping him..SIMPLE
By: raj on October 16, 2008
at 2:00 pm
chris GOONA!
Mate, I have to say, your faith in players between 17-20 still finding their way in the league this season, is UNBELIEVABLE!
I agree and am sure that they are great talents for the future, but to expect them to win the title for us THIS SEASON, atleast for me, is too much to comprehend!
Yes, ramsey, as you say is the complete package, but surely, not for this season. He may give good performances, but I dont think even you believe that ramsey can be a solid, consistent, established player we can rely on for this season.
Same goes for vela and the other youngsters, they can sparkle from time to time, but I dont think they can be expected to take the responsibility of holding vital positions consistently in the grind of the premier league for us to win it. Not this season, with the likes of the other top 3 teams, SURELY!!
Dont you think we are putting too much pressure on the youngsters, saddling them with roles they cant be expected to accomplish?
This will, if anything, only harm their potential for the future!
By: Naga gunner on October 16, 2008
at 2:31 pm
Why are we still on about a DM? Lets look at the games we have played so far we are losing and conceding because we have defenders who cant defend it has nothing to do with a DM. You all talk about experienced players leaving, did Flamini have more experience than Gilberto? But he is the one who played better. Just give the team a chance and i hope our defenders need to raise their game then we can talk about the DM position.
By: Clay on October 16, 2008
at 2:32 pm
We don’t have any real defensive midfielders so let’s dilute the game of our best player to hide the deficiences of others as is it good for the team?
Nonsense, drivel, bilge, a cop-out that refuses to address the problem of the midfield at present which is a lack of balance defensively.
Cesc always contributed defensively and should continue to do so. Now he is defending too much and this puts him in areas where he is less effective. Denilson also occupies forward areas where Cesc should be and thus denies him space in the areas where he is most effective.
Pires, Overmars, Bergkamp, Henry contributed to varying degrees defensively but this was not done to the detriment of their game.
Cesc should be played in the way that maximises his ability and not saddled with too many defensive duties. The balaance was right last season but not this season. We have a poor CB pairing on current form and a position in CM that people are unsure of; Denilson, Song, Diaby? I have doubts about all of them.
Weakening Cesc’s game not playing to his strengths affects the team far more. The centrebacks need to improve as does defensive cover from midfield.
By: Alex Ice Cream on October 16, 2008
at 2:35 pm
Gazzap there is only one Flamini or Hleb what ever player we are going to get will have to adapt to our style and that might take time depending on the player. Its not a guarantee that they will walk into the team and perfom better than what we have.
By: Clay on October 16, 2008
at 2:35 pm
Hleb and Flam has gone… get over it Cesc or go too… we have a decent squad that can challenge any bloody team. Den, Nas, bish, ram,wilt.. we have as first class replacements. We have the team… now is the time to believe… not cast doubt…
watch how we win our next match and then believe…….
By: The Troof on October 16, 2008
at 2:52 pm
well honestly fabregas is too mature to come out and say stuff like this, he should know better than that. i don’t really think wenger should be like ok i have to keep flamini and hleb coz fabreas loves them. i mean what about thierry henry? i don’t remember him commin out and talkig so much about vieira and pires leaving the club that much even though those 2 unlike hleb and flamini are arsenal legends and great players. so why should fabregas come out and say his level is not the same coz those 2 left? honestly i donno if we should believe everything written but if he really said that i’m sure he will know he didn’t do the right thing. ofcourse hees still only 21 though
By: theo on October 16, 2008
at 2:57 pm
So much pissing in the wind, but entertaining all the same. Thanks guys.
By: shooy on October 16, 2008
at 3:40 pm
Cesc if u want to go …BYE.. you were only playing at that level at such a young age because of wenger.otherwise playin in Barca’s reserves..too much talk recently i feel
By: raj on October 16, 2008
at 3:50 pm
cescs comments remainds me of what henry said before his last season. he also said he is missing all the invicibles who was around him , that make him the senior player , also give him too much responsiblity and ultimatly lead to his departure
By: santino on October 16, 2008
at 4:15 pm
Diarra was never good enough or a top 4 team…he would still be cover in our current formation, and there is a reason Chelsea and Arsenal let him go. We got 4m for 6 months of an unhappy over-rated reserve with limited ambition and a suspect attittude. Portsmouth is his level a bit like Bentley. He wasn’t good enough to be pampered end of.
Gilberto was a loss, but it was his choice and Wenger doesn’t stand in people’s way. Also he had lost a step of pace, and was on big wages. Fair enough.
Hleb helped cesc and was popular but burnt his bridges and had little end product.
Flamster is a loss, because of his leadership and fight, but £60k a week for a player of his limited ability and potential is too much – and he strung us along a bit.
As for the current crop – Denilson is smart but not the right partner for cesc…good cover. Song lacks the energy for midfield and can only play at CB or in a 5 man midfield for me. again decent cover. Ramsey is quality but is inconsistant…in 2 years he will probably break the team. Diaby is the only one who could be a long term partner for cesc now, but will he stay fit – and will he learn to time his tackles better? Either way, I hope he gets a run…if it doesn’t work, AW needs to buy. Our wings are well covered, and we’re good up top. We all know we could do with a dominant centre-half, and I think wenger knows it too, but the options are limited, as we need one who can use the ball well too, and has decent pace for when we play a high line.
He tried belatedly for woodgate (who I think isn’t the player he was), and not many others that fit the bill have moved clubs of late. Kompany is good, but again too mcuh like kolo and gallas…..
I personally can’t think of anyone who would cost less than £25m…suggestions?
By: Mat Wade on October 16, 2008
at 4:15 pm
@Gazzap,
I have said before that according to Hleb himself, Arsene believes in 2 touch football. hleb attributed his inability to settle in his first 2 seasons in Arsenal to the fact that he loved to hold on to the ball for long periods. A trait he eventually mastered (except where it was necessary to free himself).
Diarra and Diaby are usually too busy ball hogging to be of any true value. Like Diaby, Diarra may have had a few good games for Arsenal, but ultimately, he would have been a square peg in a round hole
By: 9jagunner on October 16, 2008
at 4:25 pm
“£60k a week for a player of his limited ability and potential is too much”
Is £60k a week to compete for the title too much? anyway, he was already on £30k a week so it was only another £30k. as a fan i’d rather wenger USE OUR money to keep together a good team rather than get all precious about the odd £10k that we were short of keeping him.
I dont know if that was down to our wage structure but being tight will probably cost us the title this season – and the potential winnings would more than cover the extra we’d have to pay in wages – whats more we’ve got £70m in the bank gathering dust!
the cost of a good DM is £17m – if we have to fork that out in January, then you will realise how much cheaper it would have been to offer Flam £60k a week from the off.
I feel Flamini was probably under valued but the defensive midfield position is one of the most important ones on the pitch and right now, we are making a total pigs ear of it.
By: gazzap on October 16, 2008
at 4:30 pm
9, I thought at Arsenal Diarra kept it simple and was brilliant but at pompey he has been ‘doing a Diaby’ and dribbling it too much and getting caught in possession up field. Not sure why he feels the need to do that at Pompey, maybe he just doesn’t trust those around him or they are not in good positions to pass to. He was better for us than he’s been for Pompey.
I still think he is better than song or Den but its only my opinion.
By: gazzap on October 16, 2008
at 4:33 pm
Dear oh dear oh dear..
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 4:34 pm
gazzap,
he does it even when playing RB for France. Maybe he could have been converted….. Anyway he plays like he is trying to get a better deal or get another club…much too individualistic and does not have the skill to back it up
By: 9jagunner on October 16, 2008
at 4:40 pm
GazzaP – re Flamster, you do have a point – I wasn’t criticsing him as a player as he was one of my favourites, but I think the wage structure is an issue. Also I suspect that when Milan came in he was as good as gone, unless we’d paid him stupid money. I also felt his performances tailed off a little towards the end of the season, and the reward of £60k p/w for 1 good season without proof of longevity would set a dangerous precident. Now i can see adebayor comparisons, but frustrating as he is, i think he’s less replaceable and once hleb and flamini had gone his bargaining position was hugely strengthened. Also, none of us knew that Gilberto would go too and that Arsene would be unsucessful in his attempts to buy a replecement – ie yaya or alonso that we know of.
as for Diarra – I still think you’re wrong – not tough enough to play DM (like denilson) in this team, and not good enough with the ball to play anything else. People rave about Makalele who is similar, but he is a sneaky viscous bastard who can’t hold in a 2 man centre midfield. Now Essien woudl be ideal….
By: Mat Wade on October 16, 2008
at 4:43 pm
I haven’t read everyone’s replies so if this is a repeat, apologies beforehand. I just wanted to quote the rest of Cesc’s comments in the same article Yogi cited:
“We find it very hard to win matches, as we do not possess enough experience.
“I scored 13 goals last season but then I had plenty of allies. Tomas Rosicky was around, Mathieu Flamini covered every blade of grass and Alexander Hleb was like a brother to me out there.
“The team played with a lot of skilful touches, we were as solid as a brick wall and our opponents would not get a look in.
“Now none of those players are in the side and I feel like a rare being. We are more defensive-minded and sturdy as a team but we don’t play so much skilful stuff.”
Maybe you’re right, Yogi, in saying that it’s not clear that Cesc is as frustrated as some gooners are making out. But for me, the gist of those comments is that he definitely has questions or mixed feelings or skepticism (whatever word or phrase you want to use) about the squad this season. To me he sounds like a player who doesn’t have the same confidence about his team that he had last season.
He’s just saying what a lot of us have been saying for weeks.
By: NYmarcus on October 16, 2008
at 4:49 pm
Here is a new twist. I just saw this excerpt on a comment posted in response to this article http://footballfancast.com/blog/arsenal/arsenals-%C2%A35m-cushion-will-soften-any-potential-blow/6061
These latest quotes come from an interview that was given to El Pais. In the course of that interview Fabregas praises Wenger, none of the UK papers are running that but he did. He never “blamed: his team mates he never even said the youth policy is bad. He said the team is short – it is not even clear whether he meant short in height or in numbers, he certainly never said “numbers’ the interview was in spanish and that particular line is ambiguous but I believe it reads, The squad is short (height) and young and it will be tough for us to win because we are inexperienced. That’s all he said. Just that it would be tough. Not that Arsenal wouldn’t or couldn’t but simply that it was going to be a big task for them. Can you not face a very small grain of honesty from a player. Is he meant to say it will be easy? When he was asked about the fact he scored 13 goals the previous season he said about how the goals were down to Rossicky, Hleb and Flamini and the way they played. It’s true almost all of the assists for his goals came from those three players. He said “Last season I scored a lot because I had Rosicky, and Flamini who used to run all over the pitch. Hleb as well, who is like my brother. The team played with a lot of skilful touches, we were as solid as a brick wall and our opponents would not get a look in. They have gone now and I feel weird. Now we are more conservative and strong, but with less touches.” He also said during the interview in response to the following question: Do You want to return to Spain? A. I can not say that out of respect for my fans, my club and my colleagues. Arsenal has given me everything since I was 16. I have decided to stay and I am not one to turn around and cry that I want to go.
What do you think?
By: 9jagunner on October 16, 2008
at 4:58 pm
gazzup@4.30pm and NYMarcus:
Well said.
By: Alex Ice Cream on October 16, 2008
at 4:59 pm
Well this is more personnal more than anything else. He misses playing with them because he was close to them is my belief as Yogi so rightly stated. After all it was them who left the club on their own free will, so whats the point really. I dont remember him saying he missed playing with Henry who is no doubt better than both combined.
Cesc, may have to grow up a little faster but it has been him who said he would want to be captain, no? He must adapt his style of play of course and not only that, we have only played seven games and they are learning to play with eachother, so he has to give the team time to gell.
Cesc goals also dried up a bit, if we remember even with Flam and Hleb. We also still didnt win the league.
I dont buy it more than someone missing a pal, the players we have now are better than the ones we lost and they will grow into the roles.
Its about the team concept at Arsenal so I hope he will be ok mentally.
Anyway, I hope the players can stop talking to the media, it undermines the confidence of the team even if sincere. Do any other teams teams talk so much about themselves?
By: Paul N on October 16, 2008
at 5:21 pm
9jagunner@4.58pm:
Well said.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 5:23 pm
I watched Cesc play for Spain against both Estonia and Belgium. The minute he got on the pitch, Spain started to play at a quicker pace and more directly. He made some fantastic passes, all of which could have ended up as great goals if the striker on the end of them had capitalized on them. He did make 2 assists that ended in goals.
Against Belgium he was also much more visibly feisty, fighting for his team, arguing with the ref and opponents–much more driven and focused than he’s been in recent Arsenal games. He didn’t start in either game. Against Belgium he came on much earlier (in the first half) because Torres got injured and del Bosque subbed him with Cesc. I watched him playing with Alonso and Senna (a proper, world class DM), and he didn’t have to worry about so much defending. He could focus primarily on his real talents. It was wonderful to see because I’ve missed seeing him play like that in Arsenal this season, where he’s been comparatively more restrained.
By: NYmarcus on October 16, 2008
at 5:28 pm
The link to the interview is:
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Necesito/ver/futbol/cara/elpepidep/20081015elpepidep_6/Tes
Interestingly, the translations that have appeared are different in their interpretations that some have put on it. The ‘short‘ squad refers to their height and ‘tough for us to win‘ is literally, ‘cost us a lot to win‘, suggesting more accurately ‘It will take a lot for us‘ meaning that they will have to work hard at winning, not that we cannot win or we will not win.
One interesting bit left out:
Q. What is the secret of Wenger?
R. He has very clear ideas. There are no trainers like him.
Others such as:
Q: Have you any desire to return to Spain?
R. I cannot say that out of respect for the supporters, my club and my companions. Arsenal has given everything me from the 16 years old. I have decided to stay it is not for me to be crying now and saying that I want to go.
Oh and the TV experience proved a bit much because he’s turned down the opportunity to write a book.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on October 16, 2008
at 5:29 pm
Paul, it’s very clear from Cesc’s comments that he is also talking about FOOTBALL when he mentions Hleb and Flamini — I think it’s incredibly blinkered to reduce his comments to just being personal. He’s obviously NOT talking about just missing his friends, he is clearly talking about what those players brought to his game and to Arsenal’s game. You have to be in serious denial if you blank out the full content of his comments.
By: NYmarcus on October 16, 2008
at 5:31 pm
YW @ 5.29pm:
Well said
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 5:32 pm
A sign Lord Cesc..a sign …all we want is a sign to show us the way…please, please give us a sign …..he speaks he speaks…the wise one speaks….it must be so it must be so ….no f***ing wander that half the world are stupefied by childish religions….what is wrong with you people?
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 5:37 pm
Look its up to Cesc to deal with it! If this team can produce what I have seem them produce this year, we will be much better.
A player will always complain when their style is being cramped a little bit (a la Henry). He will learne how to play with these guys, its not about not being as good but being uncomfortable as far as I can see. A little growing pains.
Damn I wish he didnt say it, as now we have all the folk who were saying this coming back!!!
By: Paul N on October 16, 2008
at 5:40 pm
NY, Thats what I think along with his style being cramped a bit!
he will be ok!
By: Paul N on October 16, 2008
at 5:42 pm
NY if someone has to still call a pal this much, its a sign how much it is personal. I mean Hleb left beacuse he wanted too, and is ther no one esle on Arsenal he can speak with. If you keep reliving the past it put a damper on the future, this will blind you of the possiblities in front of you.
Another thing NY, has any of the other players complained about that? This is a Cesc issue as far as I can see it.
By: Paul N on October 16, 2008
at 5:56 pm
Ok, I just read Cesc’s interview in Spanish in El Pais. Most of it is about the national team, with some interesting comparisons between his role in the Spanish team and in Arsenal. It’s a good interview.
When he talks about Arsenal being “short,” he says “estamos un poco corto de plantilla” — which literally means “short of staff” — he’s not talking about height.
His comments about AW are very positive. There’s no criticism of AW implied at all.
I like his answer when questioned about the arrival of foreign rich billionnaires buying up clubs. They’re similar to AW’s comments. He says it hasn’t happened to Arsenal, that for these new rich club owners it’s all just a hobby and they can change their minds about their interest at their own whim.
I think his other comments on Hleb and Flam, the differences in the team this season, have been correctly translated. For me, they sound like he’s airing his feelings about what he misses from last season and how the experience that is absent in the team (as well as lack of depth) will make it difficult to win something this season.
By: NYmarcus on October 16, 2008
at 5:59 pm
For pity’s sake..stop it!!!!
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 6:04 pm
Frank, grow up.
By: NYmarcus on October 16, 2008
at 6:22 pm
Every now and again I read this blog as I find it hilarious. You guys are too much. You all know what Cesc is thinking, what he meant by this or that and what Wenger should do. From what I read a fair proportion of you don’t even go to the games. Amazing. I’m all for free speech so keep it up. It is an amazing insight.
By: Dennis on October 16, 2008
at 6:29 pm
Yes you are probably right NY Marcus …but I am more worried about you old son…you might want to take professional medical advice on this because I suspect you are showing signs of ‘typical atrophic linguistic kinaesthesia interrupting neural growth’ complicated by ’serious holistic idiopathic tripism’
…..usually known in the profession of course by the acronym.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 6:36 pm
Frank
Stop what?
By: Alex Ice Cream on October 16, 2008
at 6:42 pm
it!
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 6:50 pm
Gallas , Sagna & Bendtner are out for at least the next two games & there are doubts about Cesc , RVP & D`jourou for Everton.
Supposing the last three are available, the main problem will be the make up of the defence.
I reckon Silvestre is a cert to start along with Clichy but as for the other two spots it`s anyones guess.
CB – Kolo, D`jourou, Song ?
RB – Kolo, D`jourou, Eboue ?
By: Paulie Walnuts on October 16, 2008
at 7:06 pm
Frank, does everyone who you disagree with have a mental problem or what exactly is the criteria you use to diagnose people?
Just asking?
Anyway, Cesc will be alright. He misses his little buddies.
By: Paul N on October 16, 2008
at 7:33 pm
With two enforced changes in defence, I should think Wenger will keep Toure in his usual position, even though he prefered him to Eboue at right back at the end of last season. Wenger has said Djourou is likely to start, and I assumed he meant at centre back. That leaves Eboue to fill in at right back. Why not?! Diaby is fit, and will be in the squad. Will he start? I don’t see why Denilson should be dropped, but perhaps Diaby would provide extra cover for the makeshift defence.
By: Poliziano on October 16, 2008
at 7:39 pm
Oh dear, Paul N, are you serious?
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 7:47 pm
Dennis and Mat Wade – first sensible comments I’ve read today.
Cesc’s comments can be taken as negative or neutral depending upon your personal viewpoint. At the end of the day none of us know exactly what he is thinking, only time will tell. Personally, I’m ready to draw a line under it as we have bigger things to worry about, such as who is going to replace all our injured and/or jet lagged players on Saturday?
By: Passenal on October 16, 2008
at 7:53 pm
Are you a girl, Passenal?
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 7:58 pm
What strikes me here is that my comments and those of Alex IC’s are seen as incredibly controversial, so unbelievably outrageous, extreme and inexcusable, and utterly worthless. When you actually look at my comments with objectivity, you’ll see they’re hardly controversial or extreme. In fact, in the real world out there of football debates just among Arsenal fans (never mind the even tougher world of football debates among fans of other clubs), they’re very mild. They’re just expressive of thoroughly credible concerns about the team. It’s amazing to see how little it takes to get Frank and others around here so hysterical and upset. I can only imagine how hysterical you get when faced with REALLY tough critics.
By: NYmarcus on October 16, 2008
at 8:11 pm
I suppose it’s irritating when people pose as optimists who have finally been forced to accept the unpleasant truth, when in fact they have always taken a jaundiced view of Arsenal’s prospects. They think there is some merit in being the first to announce that Arsenal will not win this or that competition.
By: Poliziano on October 16, 2008
at 8:31 pm
Hysterical?..I was trying to be witty…probably didn’t succeed but none the less….witty…. Actually I am a bit bored…my daughter won’t go to bed and the third world war is about to start…..not hysterical though..oh no.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 8:33 pm
Are you a pizza, Poliziano? I agree with you.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 8:35 pm
No, I’m not a pizza myself, but I might have been named after a pizza.
By: Poliziano on October 16, 2008
at 8:40 pm
Excellent, Poliziano. I have often dreamed of being named after a pizza.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 8:52 pm
Funny, I’ve often dreamed of not being named after a pizza.
By: Poliziano on October 16, 2008
at 8:53 pm
Amazing how opposites attract.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 8:54 pm
Am I serious? Frank you seem to know what medication or treatment everyone needs, so I was wondering what your credentials were as you seem to always think someone is mental. Hey, read your comments!
I do agree with you about this situation but wondered why your comments against some one always seemed to end up with a Mental Illness Diagnoses or presecription?
hee hee!!!
Be Easy
By: Paul N on October 16, 2008
at 9:38 pm
Frank, why did you ask if Passenal is a girl? can you state your reasoning for the question as I am interested.
I bet wenger plays Toure at RB and brings JD and silvestre into CB. Eboue to remain on the wing. either that or JD might play at RB instead of Toure. wenger may rest walcott. I would think Den will start but song wont. RVP and Ade should be the strikers.
By: gazzap on October 16, 2008
at 9:39 pm
Poliziano, I do not in anyway buy what Cesc is saying, he is a little sad but he is a big boy.
I believe in this team however what he has said is rather dissapointing. NOt how he feels but that he would come out and say it. Immature and unwise in my eyes but he will be proved innacurate to me!
By: Paul N on October 16, 2008
at 9:42 pm
I may or not have the credentials, Paul N….however just in case….
‘Typical Atrophic Linguistic Kinaesthesia Interrupting Neural Growth’ complicated by ’Serious Holistic Idiopathic Tripism’
…the clue is in the acronym.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 10:06 pm
Gazzap, the clues are in the text.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 10:07 pm
Paul N, my comments were not aimed at you. The jaundiced ones know who they are!
By: Poliziano on October 16, 2008
at 10:08 pm
“Are you a girl, Passenal?”
Not quite a girl as I am rather long in the tooth for that epithet, but definitely female! Hope that does not make a difference for you?
By: Passenal on October 16, 2008
at 10:15 pm
Well said, Poliziano
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 10:15 pm
.
By: Gunner4Ever on October 16, 2008
at 10:18 pm
No Passenal..not at all. Except I will probably stop swearing and I might occassionally start the conversation with …
‘Well hellooo, my beauty, and how are you today’ a la Leslie Phillips.
I like your style….whoops there I go again.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 10:19 pm
G4E, when are you going to stop doing that?
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 10:21 pm
I’m not that delicate Frank, I can handle a bit of swearing!
G4E – there’s no need to censor yourself – if you have something to say, let it out!
By: Passenal on October 16, 2008
at 10:29 pm
As I said, Passenal I like your style.
Cmon G4E out with it.
Gazzap, I agree with you …Toure RB, Sylvestre/Djourou CB, Clichy LB. Thought the same myself. Interesting to see how AW calls that one.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 10:34 pm
This is taken from Guillaume Balague’s blog:
“The quotes come from his own web page which – it must be pointed out – is not written by him but by a family member. This family member makes up what they think Cesc would probably say after a game, but – as this incident illustrates- it is dangerous as these words can be taken out of context. You will not find the quotes on his web page now as they have been removed at the request of the football club…”
So if the words are not his, perhaps there isn’t any point in picking over them in great detail to interpret his meaning.
By: FunGunner on October 16, 2008
at 10:34 pm
Don’t see why not FunGunner..it seems to be the basis of most of the worlds religions.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 10:54 pm
“Don’t see why not FunGunner..it seems to be the basis of most of the worlds religions.”
lol
By: FunGunner on October 16, 2008
at 11:00 pm
Christians pick over the words of the New Testament to find support for their own opinions. Arsenal fans pick over the words of Cesc Fabregas to find support for their own opinions.
By: Poliziano on October 16, 2008
at 11:01 pm
What a star you are, Poliziano
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 11:05 pm
The amazing thing about Cesc is that not only is he a great orator and philosopher but apparently he plays football too.
By: Frank on October 16, 2008
at 11:07 pm
Funny reading today.
Shouldn’t it be “Word of Cesc Fabregas?
I googled “Word of God” to make sure and the first hit was titled “Anal Sex and the Word of God”, which made me chuckle.
Just thought I’d share that.
By: Big Al on October 16, 2008
at 11:13 pm
God Bless you Frank.
Just asked as it is always your end in a discussion you deem to be foolish. Your vocabulary is extraordinary and aslo your intelligence to make an acronym using words that I am not ashamed to say I dont know or have never seen before.
Be easy.
Was it however directed to me? hee hee.
You crack me up dude!
Big ups Poliziano – cool name!
By: Paul N on October 16, 2008
at 11:16 pm
Wont get into the Christian debate at all!
God Bless you all!!!
By: Paul N on October 16, 2008
at 11:19 pm
Just read this on Arsenal.com
“Abou Diaby has shrugged off a thigh injury and returns to the Arsenal squad for Saturday’s game against Everton.”
Shrugged? More like the thigh injury died from old age.
Frank: Liked the acronym even with the sh*t.
By: Steve on October 16, 2008
at 11:42 pm
Never liked Hleb. Now he is pulling Cesc away from Arsenal. And for those of you who do why don’t you go and follow Barca?
Never liked Rosicky. Far too injury prone. How can you build him into a first team when he is never consistently fit? Squad player at best. And for those of you who do why don’t you go and follow and slit your Achilles and hamstring with a Gurka knife?
Same goes for RvP.
I want to see Ramsey, Vela, Nasri, Song, et al all play first team football. Let them develop into something special if they are not already.
By: Highbury on October 17, 2008
at 1:30 am
Highbury: Why don’t you go and slit your skull open and see if you have any brain cells in there
By: Steve on October 17, 2008
at 1:45 am
I wonder if any of you agree with this comment.
http://onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=784
I do.
By: Steve on October 17, 2008
at 2:03 am
I agree with the sentiment behind the article, Steve. The FA are joke…a bumbling monolith.
Paul N, take care of yourself, my friend.
By: Frank on October 17, 2008
at 7:07 am