Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | May 20, 2008

Machiavellian Manoeuvring and French Lunacy – Another Day of Transfer Rumours with a Smidgen of Senderos Thrown In

Much like a leading the character of a Shakespearian tragedy, the anguished cries of various managers cuckolded by their favourite players can be heard across the globe. The first Cuckoo heralds the arrival of Spring; the close season heralds the start of phantom moves, or Phantom Menaces, when agents plant stories in the media to secure a transfer for their client to a shadowy figure in the background or extort a better deal from current relationships.

With Samir Nasri seemingly set to be the first signing for £13.5m the scene is set for some spurious stories to emerge. The first one of the day is from Italy where ‘Vincenzo Morabito has revealed’ that Alberto Aquilani is talking to Arsenal. Morabito is obviously seeking to ingratiate himself with the club having been the purchaser of the sundry Ice Creams in Milan earlier this year, much to Arsene’s chagrin. You cannot help but wonder if Aquilani is talking to the club but perhaps the conversation is with the switchboard or box office, trying to get freebies to this summer’s Emirates Cup. Why so cynical? When an agent says, “We will have to see if Roma will be able to match his demands”, you know that the story is being used as a plant to extract another Euro or two for his client in a new deal.

Similarly, stories linking Arsenal to Sebastien Frey, Mouhamadou Dabo and one of his St Etienne colleagues whose name escapes me, at the weekend all ring of desperate digging to link anyone with anyone, agents similarly trying to push a new deal through the back door of feigned public interest. Still none of it as ludicrous as the tangled web woven by Martin Samuel and Matt Hughes in yesterday’s Times about Adebayor out, Santa Cruz in and Dein returning. It brought a smile to my face reading it though so thanks Chaps.

Niko Kranjcar kept his options open whilst Barcelona appear to be trying to win all trophies by having around twenty players at a time on the pitch.

Onto the serious stuff. I know I cannot be alone in heaving a sigh of relief with Raymond Domenech’s decision not to pick Clichy, Sagna and Diaby. I have sympathy for the players, their desire to play at the highest level crushed but certainly the last two require rest this summer. With Rosicky ruled out of the Czech squad and the African World Cup qualifiers over by the middle of June, for once it seems most of the squad will be resting which is something that they desperately need. It really only needs van Persie not to be picked by the Dutch and that is as good as it could get with Fabregas already selected by Luis Aragones.

One man going to the tournament is Philippe Senderos who claimed yesterday that Arsene wanted him to stay. He is in a minority with vocal critics claiming the Swiss international will never be good enough to play for the club. Never is a strong word to use. I can see why Arsene wants him to stay but I think Senderos would benefit from a loan spell, not necessarily in this country, where he is going to play regularly. He is the best example of a confidence player that I have come across in many seasons and a spell to gather himself together would do him the world of good.

It is an important season for him. As he states in the interview, he is in the final two years of his current contract. More importantly, his chances to claim a first team place are diminishing. Alex Song heads a list of players in the squad and reserves who will push for inclusion in the first team over that period. If Senderos cannot make himself the undisputed deputy to Toure / Gallas or anyone that Arsene brings in, the likelihood is that he will not be offered a new deal. Indeed, were Arsene to buy another centre-back, it would come as no surprise if Senderos departed this summer for a fee in the region of £2m.

Another day of rumours and laughter ensues so ‘til Tomorrow.

Responses

I am tired of calling for senderos head for the last 3 years.

HE IS A LAME DUCK!! how many mistakes does he have to make for arsene to see that he is USELESS!!! YE YOU HEARD ME RIGHT !!USELESS!!!

What irritates me the most we lose better players like flamini and keep senderos as if he is some sort of holy grail!!!

I’d rather keep eboue than him! eboue may be useless but atleast he doesnt drop horrendous clangers.

THE FACT THAT SENDEROS IS STILL AT ARSENAL GIVES OUR TITLE RIVALS A HEAD START NEXT SEASON!!!

UTTER NONSENSE!!

naga gunner… ur comments are very harsh, Senderos is an decent CB and will make it into most teams in the Premiership. He is 22 or 23 i think, that age is very young for a CB, if we let him go it could turn out to be a big mistake!! mark my words, wenger feels this and this is why we still have him. He may not be as mobile as other defenders like Gallas and Toure, but if wenger can erase the mistakes from his game we saw how effective he can be. He was exellent at the back with Gallas when Toure went away, and we actually looked comfortable at the back for once.

I agree completely with Yogi, give him a 6 month loan spell, get him playing some regular football for another european team, then we will get him back come January and he will be ready.

CHRIS

A again you are too optimistic. You get a fairly good idea of the player after 1 and half season. WE have seen senderos for 3 years now I tell you he may become better but he will always have a clanger in him.

I am not worried about him not playing well but when he drops clangers it hurts the good work of the entire team.

HE WILL NEVER BE GOOD ENOUGH!!

Chris I dont think you will find many takers for him even if we sell him. I hate to say this but he is appaling.

Do you remember pascal cygan. I was clamouring for him to be axed from his first season. But he stayed on for such a long time with pridictible disaster ( he is costing villareal now!).

Chris its painful for me because its a case of deja vu for me.

No offence but he is a david james as an england goalkeeper. Nothing quite changed in his entire career DID IT?

I agree with naga gunner.

Senderos is another waste of wages for a player who after 5 seasons and tons of chances is still struggling to be on the sub bench. His mistakes culminating in matche losses are becoming uncountable. He’s just not Arsenal quality. Stepanov and Cygan reminds.

No premier league team is interested in him. In fact no team has requested him for a loan or purchase that’s why Arsene is still keeping him, Arsene has no choice. Arsene thought he had secured a replacement for Sol Campbell but the promise has dimmed.

A lot fans said this season was his chance to prove but he failed again with poor performances against Serville, Villa, Liverpool and many others. He was even full of mistakes against Sunderland.

Right now, Song has moved ahead of him in the perking order and his chances will evaporate if a new CB comes in.

I personally think, he should have gone on loan rather than Djourou. Nexct season will prove tougher for him as we chase the title and he’ll be competing with a new CB, Gallas, Toure, Song and Dourou for two available positions.

Its too costlly experimenting with Sendy again, he’s had his chances and blown it.

Naga Gunner, for a person who was demanding the gaffer’s head not too long ago, you seem to have scaled down your demands.

Senderos is a decent backup central defender and like Yogi said he will be sold if we further strenghten in that area in the summer. Else, he is a useful option to have except when we play the other Big 3. With those teams it would be prudent to play our first choice at all times.
Btw, belated happy birthday Yogi. It is a pleasure to read your blog everyday.

ALEX

I still say without reserve that the gaffer will face judgement if we dont win a trophy next season!!

BELIEVE ME NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB , NOT EVEN ARSENE.

If cesc leaves and this team that he has been nurturing breaks up then ARSENE MUST LEAVE!!!

We dont wait patiently for 3 years for the team to grow only for them to win nothing and lose them to the other big clubs!!!

That would mean that the 3 years was a waste, if that happens I say without reserve ARSENE MUST GO!!!

It is the silly season indeed. Agent’s working through their chums in the media have convinced all but a few that Arsene will sign Ben Arfa AND Nasri AND Aquilani AND Veloso. And thats just for starters by the way…then the gaffer has to buy a ‘Big powerful’ central defender and a goalkeeper. Phew.

Its the same story every season. Arsene has already said that a big player is better than a big name and will probably sign two players who we’ve barely heard of and one which who we know a bit about.

I agree with Chris that the criticisms of Senderos have been very harsh. Yes he has made some crucial mistakes, notably against Liverpool in CL but then again so did Toure penalty give away! To focus on individual mistakes always throws a player in a negative light! Remember Gallas was extremely error prone after the Bham match even the ultra reliable Glichy too! What you need to understand is we need a player like Senderos- by all means he is not at the level of Gallas or Toure but he is good enough to sit on the bench and step in when required. More like Wes Brown at Man U, heavily criticised and almost left on a free but currently playing a blinder! It is easy to remember the mistakes players make and ignore their more positive contributions. Senderos seams to be tainted permanently by the Drogba incident- but how many defenders have suffered at the hands of Drogba without being villified as Sendy is. He is a committed player, loves the shirt, is a leader, does not mind sitting on the bench and if his mistakes can be ironed out then we will be looking at the player of the CL final! Lets have some perspective this emotional reaction towards underperfoming players is a bit silly!

everyone seems to highlight a few mistakes by senderos but no one critisices the mistakes made by gallas or toure who was rubbish after coming abck from the ANC.
it was toures fault that we got knocked out of the CL with a stupid tackle on babale and gallas`s stupid hand ball against manscum.
senderos is young and has aqquitted himself well so far.
everyone was having a go at Wenger over song and now look at the boy. most of you muppet fans dont ahve a clue about footballers other then a few snippets in games on tv. do any of you watch players train or know of their characteristics. stand up anyone who has never made a mistake at work?
we can do without all the jonnycum latey glory hunters who think they can amange a team better then WENGER.
ARSENE KNOWS more then muppet plastic fans.

oh my goodness!!!

let just give senderos a 10 year deal he seems to be revered by so many of us gunners!!!

And t henry, every manager whoever he may be will be judged on results, whether its arsene or anybody else!!!

I STRESS AGAIN NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB!

I don’t understand why Senderos gets so much flak.

Over the season he has not made as many mistakes as Toure or even Gallas.

I think it’s the way he looks, (kinda like George Bush). He just doesn’t inspire confidence. However Senderos is not as bad as everyone makes out.

I feel Toure has let us down too many times this term but no one calls for his head. Even before the ACN he was not performing as the Kolo we all know. During the ACN he was crap for Cote d’Ivoire, after the ACN he was even worse for us.

Strong words from you naga.I think comparing Senderos with Cygan is harsh.Cygan was more of liability.Arsene has no doubt made some mistakes with players in the past but Im sure he knows a lot of things we dont about Senderos aka Swiss Tony. I for one can guarantee that Sendy WILL be there and he will only leave when you are running the club. What r the chances of that then?

I can understand your frustrations with him. He plays less games, seems to give away silly free kicks and is not blessed with great pace. But who didnt make mistakes in the team.He wasnt even on the pitch at OT when we were beaten 4-0, When Toure conceded a penalty at Boro n Pool or at Chelsea when Drogba bullied our defence. He is a pretty decent back up central defender and like Yogi correctly says his is a confience game and he deputised well while Toure was at the ANC. And unless you forgot he formed the best defensive partnership in the 2006 Champions league season which didnt concede a goal till the final. I dont think Arsene would waste his time with Djorou, Sendy and Song if he idnt think they had any potential.Your big CB will come out of one of those net season.Trust me!

I am not saying we couldn’t do better than Phil but he shouldn’t be the scapegoat for our defensive lapses.

LETS BUY TITUS BRAMBLE THEN HE WOULD MAKE A PERFECT COMBO WITH SENDEROS!!! HO, HO

SIMPLY USELESS!!!

Hey gunner4life!!

I have noted above that it is not that he plays badly which is the problem, It is that his clangers are costing some magnificient work from the team.

I dont have a problem with his attitude but sadly l with him it simply comes down to ability!!!

Just look at him play g4l, for goodness sake, do you really think he will ever be good enough?

why cant we just buy a decent defender and remedy the problem!!!

Wow I am starting to feel sorry for Sendy. At least not a cheating diving ponce of a right back come winger…..

Like many have suggested next season will be pivotal he will either raise his game and become consistent because football is about consistency and he must find some.

Looked great against Milan then dodgy against Liverpool. I think he could come good but only time will tell.

BY THE WAY WHOSE CRUEL PRANK WAS IT THAT ALLOCATED THE NO. 6 SHIRT OF TONY ADAMS(THE GREATEST) TO SENDEROS????

Naga you really dont rate him do you!!!

COME ON WHO?????

Sendy!!!!!!!!!!!!

On a serious note signing NAsri alond with ben Arfa would be excellent.

If we do that i would not sniff at selling Hleb for some decent amount.

Naga Gunner, surely you must be PHW or Danny Fiszman in disguise to say that you will take Wenger to task next season.

Or maybe..just maybe are you saying that you will rant and rave helplessly on every blog demanding his removal same time next year?

Remember we were all only too happy to let go of Flamini last season.

Senderos is young.

Hey ALEX!

Its great that we have a difference of opinion. And you have been sensible on many of your opinions. I repect that!!!

Its just that I do really care about the club, and the senderos case is not a spur of the moment, I have been at it for 3 years now, and maybe its frustrating me that I have been right (SO FAR)

On the theme of the arts, I’ve come up with a ditty mirroring the Balamory song, “which coloured house are we going to”, some of you in the UK with children may be familiar with:

# what kind of player are we going to sign ?
# tell me what you think ?
# what kind of player are we going to sign ?
# tell me what you think ?

# is it Nasri ? is it Aqualina ? is it Kompany ? Is it Barry ?
# what kind of player are we going to sign ?
# tell me what you think ?
# is it talent ? is it experience ? is it muscle ? is it grit ?

# what kind of player are we going to sign ?
# tell me what you think ?
# is it Johnson ? Is it Thuram ? Is it Frey ? Is it Veloso ?
# tell me what you think ?

# which newspaper do we believe ?
# tell me what you think ?
# which newspaper do we believe ?
# tell me what you think ?
# is it the Mail, is it the Times, is it the Mirror, is it the Sun ?
# which newspaper do we believe ?
# tell me what you think ?

# which agents do we trust ?
# tell me what you think ?
# is it some, is it all, is it none ?
# tell me what you think ?

# what kind of player are we going to sign ?
# tell me what you think ?
# is it Delago, is it Eto, is it Arshavin ?, is it Dmitriev ?
# tell me what you think ?

# which web site do we believe ?
# tell me what you think ?
# which web site do we believe ?
# tell me what you think ?
# is it goal.com, is it teamtalk, is it the skysports.com ?
# tell me what you think ?

the same people slagging Sendy now are the same people who slagged off Song, flamini, henry (in his last season), they were the ones who flayed Gilberto to death ignoring his contributions last year! Clamoured for Le Bob to leave saying he was past it! They slated Traore ignoring the fact that he was only 17-18 yet making more than decent appearances in the first team. The same people were baying for AW’s blood for letting go of Anthony Stoke, Fabrice Muamba & Larsson (who have been relegated with Bham), the same people were spitting mad that AW let Sidwell go and the more mad when he did not sign him again.

Whatever you say, my fellow gunners!

But get a grip on reality

SENDEROS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE A FIRST CHOICE ARSENAL PLAYER!!!

Runebreaker

They do seem to carry a lot of angst about don’t they?

Fair enough Naga Gunner, we are all fans and want the same thing in the end. No offence intended and cheers mate.

I’ve never seen Wenger issue a warning to Ferguson like the one he did this time. Saying something on the lines of “Congratulations on the league title and prepare for a fight next year.” Its ample indication that he is hurting more than even we are. One expects him to to act fairly definitively to take us to the next level next season.

Another observation was about Tony Adams saying that he knew the real reason why Wenger sold Diarra. He said that we’d have to think out of the box to find the real reason.
At the time we sold Diarra we had a glut of central midfielders and Flamini was on fire. Did Arsene then decide to sell a commodity we had plenty of (Diarra) in exchange for a commodity we had less of (A winger like Krancjar?) Speculation i know but surely there is something brewing between us and Pompey.

#”SENDEROS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE A FIRST CHOICE ARSENAL PLAYER!!!”#

Good thing he is not a first choice player then isn’t it.

NEXT TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great to see so many gunners respond concerning the club!!! mates, we will be alright!!!

OH TO BE A GUNNER INDEED!!!

up the guns!!

THANKS ALEX!!!

SHINE ON!!

Josef K indeed and thats what I find suprising- I mean we are all gutted to the pits after a season of so much promise petered out lamely but the way some people react is completely over the top. And then you get all this crazy lets ship out 10 players and sign 28 world class first teamers each at a minimum of £25 mil!! I mean lets just get Erick and decamp to the inter-glactic league!

senderos wont leave and so is the case with hoyte….

i mean if we went by popular voting none would have wanted song to stay after last season… but it happend otherwise…
senderos isnt going…. arsene doesnt have any history of fast selling players unless they want to leave themselves.. eg diarra, reyes.. so discussing on this is a waste of time.

Naga Gunner;

Remove Arsene and Arsenal will struggle for place in Champions League as it is there are lots of clubs who spend more than us…just count who many spent more than us last summer..may be half od premiership…net spending..spending - sales

even i dont think senderos will leave..and if he doesnt no CB is coming…..

someone said may be with two wingers we shud let hleb go….man u wont find hleb’s quality that easily…his ball control is amazing..there are not many who can snatch ball from him…he keeps possesion of ball which is must for our kind of game…hleb is priceless…lets try and keep him …am sure arsene will try..

Morning all,

I agree in part with Naga though I shall not bring myself to flay Sendy for his efforts because there are many players that have dropped the ball this season with individual mistakes. The fact is that as a team we win and thus jointly we bear any loss in the same fashion. The game has moved on and so whereas speed may not have been a major contributor to a CB in the past there is no question that it is more in play in the game now. Whilst Sendy may not have lit the world on fire the fact is that during the same time we seem to have lost both Gallas and Toure (form wise). The issues for Arsenal in the season have centred around our inability to hold a lead which is a blight on the entire team not individual players. It is important to remember that any defence starts from the front, so as a team we must strive to collectively work together. I don’t want to see Sendy go, though I would understand why if Wenger managed to work a deal. I have similar thoughts in respect of Eboue, cut the diving and give him another opportunity to develop as a back up in the right midfield role. I shall however hold my thoughts on the comparison of Eboue to the Romford Pele!

I am of the mind that Arsenal will indeed buy a LW for the team this year, I cannot imagine that Narsi would fill that void and more importantly he has stated that he sees Vela as a striker. It is telling that he has not then issued the usual “but, I shall play him out wide for him to further develop” line. So it seems that Walcott shall be a regular next season on the right with a change the year following to fill in the role of striker, interestingly if all were fit that would be RVP, Ade, Eduardo, Vela, Walcott and Bendter. I am not an expert, but I would imagine someone will not be happy with not playing were they all fit.

I have my fingers crossed that the business we do is fast, I want the new lads to have time to start gelling with the squad and thus late transfer business allows much less “sync” time.

Senderos. Worth keeping. Nuff said.

Toronto dude I agree I can only imagine one what kind of problems AW will have if RVP gets over his injury jinx and EDS comes back to 100%, but i think to start with we will see Vela on the left if he plays at all, AW loves to do this for all his creative fowards, did it with RVP, henry, EDS and of course Walcott.

‘breath a sigh of relief for domench not choosing clichy sagna and diaby’
If u think about it might be good clichy could use a breather he’s been playing all season so this might be good.

Do we have decent back for clichy?

adc - back up for clichy? Well we have traore and gallas/sagna can play left back too.

SOME BREAKING NEWS TO NAGA GUNNER WHO CAN’T SEEM TO UNLOCK HIS CAPS KEY:

Cygan has been great at Villareal — that team has done so well this season that they have secured the guaranteed CL 2nd spot in La Liga, several points above Barca. Do you know how many times that’s happened??? It’s remarkable what Villareal have done this season, given that they’re a small club from a very small town with very little money.

Also, I read an interesting stat the other day about Senderos: he has never been a starter in any of our periods of poor form in the league. He bears no responsibility for our poor form in the league this season. We lost the league with our supposedly better defenders on the pitch.

That said, as Yogi said, given that Senderos appears to be a confidence player, and given that he is not a first choice defender (something Naga Gunner doesn’t seem to realize), he will never have the opportunity to improve. His pace is better for slower leagues like Spain.

I happen to love Senderos for his attitude, his commitment, his intelligence and education. In our multilingual squad, he can communicate easily with nearly every player because of his language ability. I so wish he could up his game, I want him to succeed. He deserves success for his attitude and dedication. But since he’s not a first choice player, I can’t see him succeeding with us anymore.

So United and Chelsea are up to their eyeballs in debt, and that money that Abramovich pours into his toy? They’re interest-free loans, not gifts:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/may/20/premierleague.chelsea

So United and Chelsea are up to their eyeballs in debt, and that money that Abramovich pours into his toy? They’re interest-free loans, not gifts:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/may/20/premierleague.chelsea

Oh goody! Just what we can look forward to when our club gets taken over and the manager has all that cash to splash on players and we can go on to conquer the world…

what’s going on with this blog? why aren’t my posts showing up???

Sendersos always struggles when Flamini (greedy cun*) doesn’t play. Reason is Flamoney used to fill the gap between defence and midfield, leaving Senderdross to play deeper, Senderdross is a much better player with the game in front of him, Flamoney’s inclusion and improvement meant that Sender didn’t have to turn that often. Now Flam has gone we could be treated to more displays of a centre half being turned towards his own goal where he seems to lose all of his composure. For such a major technical defect this means that he is NOT good enough for Arsenal. No I don’t know better than Arsene, but if those comments are targeted at everyone with an opinion, why bother having a blog?

NYMarcus

Dunno. Probably the link.

Freed them up though.

YW

Toronto made a great point of how to defend, from the front. I have said this before but we do not disrupt the flow of the ball until we are close to our goalie area, for some strange reason we keep backing up until that point. I just believe that there is something wrong with how we train defensively. We also do not attack the ball on set peices, you could see this especially when the Pool dude scored on that header in the CL w/ Senderos looking dead at the ball, waiting for the header it seemed.

I would not put too much on senderos because others, as has been said have cost us (Gallas, Toure, Clichy). Senderos is however an Enigma, when he is on he is great and when he is bad is very bad. It seems as if he can not asses the game fitle next fast enough to position himself correctly on a consistent basis. Lets hope and pray he can get it together.

Arsenal for the the Title next season!

Blessings

Hey NYmarcus (your NY is in caps key)

Because he has played so well this season villareal WILL NOT RENEW CYGANS CONTRACT!!

Try to get hold of some villareal games this season, some of cygans howlers needs to be made a trailer to shoe defenders what NOT TO DO in defence!!!

And off course for every footbell fan to laugh their socks off!!!

By the way again SENDEROS IS USELESS!!!(IN CASE YOU FORGOT)

My Bad - “Assess the game fast enough” , damn!

Rosey

Who was your last sentence directed at?

YW

I’m with adc about Hleb. He is a very unique player who we should do as much as we can to keep. but if he wants to go we should sell him at the highest price possible. But oh, what a player.

Would it be possible to sign a certain Stephen Appiah on a 1-year contract just in case he recovers from injury? Y’know not pay him full-salary till he’s fit and able? I love his game

General comment Yogi, some people have said things like Arsene knows more than muppet fans etc.. course he does and is handsomely rewarded as a result, whenever someone criticises a player or the boss, people seem to come rushing out to say things like “Wenger sees something in him” or “he’s quality in training” Or “Wenger has won this or that.” I am Arsene’s biggest fan, but do not believe that anyone is beyond reproach. I’m also not a great one for knee jerk reactions, but fact is some players are good enough and some are not, Senderos is not, Eboue is not and I’m not convinced by the keeper. Does that make me Anti Arsenal or anti Wenger? No it just means that I differ in opinion. If wenger has a weakness it is faith in poor Centre halves/defenders, Sendedross, Cygan, Stepanovs, Grimandi, Vivas (RB) I hope he gets it right this summer because I feel that we are that close

Rosey

I don’t disagree with what you have said. It seems to be pretty much what most sane people think but as with anything in life, there are extremes and these tend to get brought to the surface with facile comments that are not substantiated, such as ‘x is crap’ without backing it up.

If such a comment is being made, and this is a general comment, at least be prepared to state reasons why and be prepared to argue it to a logical conclusion rather than shouting the loudest becuase once that happens, nobody listens. Or reads in this case.

YW

Pretty soon will hear some fans wanting to replace Wenger with Mourinho…right?

Is football Madness 2009 out yet?

Yes Rosey

We are that close because Arsene gets it right much more often than not.

If he thinks a player is worth persevering with then it is ok with me.

Grimondi & Cygan had their moments but were very useful squad players.

What is often not realized is that Wengerball can leave the CBs more exposed than in a simple defensive formation.

Swiss T, for 1 reason or another, has had a fits & starts career . He has looked good at times & awful at others. He needs to play a full season before we can really find out how good he is. I am not sure we can take the gamble.

G4E: “Pretty soon will hear some fans wanting to replace Wenger with Mourinho…right?”

That’s already happened, some time ago. There are idiots on some Arsenal blogs (and also on the radio talk shows) clamoring for just that: Jose Mourinho to come to Arsenal.

Then there are those who suggest the following replacements for Arsene (who they believe must go):

Rafa Benitez
Paul Jewell (you read that right)
Harry Redknapp
Mark Hughes
Martin O’Neill
David Moyes

Now, I do rate some of those managers in the league (Harry, O’Neill, Moyes–and certainly Rafa’s a proven cup winner). But it’s extraordinary hearing gooners who’ve given up on Wenger clamoring for managers who’ve yet to win a trophy or wage any credible campaign for the league title, never mind win it.

At least Mourinho has credibility as a winner. If you’re going to suggest a better manager than Wenger for our club, then at least stick with the likes of Ancelotti, Scolari, Rijkaard: proven trophy winners on the big stage.

NYmarcus, it’s not surprising the majority of the managers list above are English or at least associated with the Island? :)

Most of those fans don’t even know that the name Wenger is at least %50 why players sign for us on the cheap. Bring in any of those flashy managers nd with our limited resources….we would fight for Uefa cup if we’re lucky. Maybe even those managers wouldn’t accept the job knowing that we don’t have that much money to back them.

Rosey

I would say it is more a case of how people frame their arguments.

As Yogi said, there is nothing to disagree with in your last post.

What does rankle is the lynch mob mentality that pervades the Interweb blog community; one day it is player X’s fault the league was lost, the next day player Y.

These views are taken based on some existing prejudice, or indeed legitimate grievance and then snippets of factual information are tenuously pooled together to support the assertion.

It quickly seems to turn to some sort of mania and obsessive hate campaign, our friend above purporting to have been campaigning against Senderos for three years. I’m sorry but that is just frankly a little bit beyond for me. Besides, as NYmarcus demonstrated, it is without merit.

That is before we even start on the irritation caused by the spouting of unsubstantiated gossip as fact in order to castigate an individual - Ade and his agents alleged and subsequently disproved greed for example.

Personally I would go further than Yogi; if someone fails to bother taking advantage of those little red lines under their spelling mistakes, substitutes actual grown up words for ‘u’ or ‘g8′, thinks it is necessary to use more than one piece of punctuation to illustrate a point, twists facts to suit their argument etc (I could go on). Then they don’t deserve to be taken seriously and should go back to the playground quite frankly.

#”Paul Jewell (you read that right)”#

NY

That was on this blog wasn’t it?

Was it our favorite Anglophile by any chance?

“if someone fails to bother taking advantage of those little red lines under their spelling mistakes, substitutes actual grown up words for ‘u’ or ‘g8′, thinks it is necessary to use more than one piece of punctuation to illustrate a point, twists facts to suit their argument etc (I could go on). Then they don’t deserve to be taken seriously and should go back to the playground quite frankly.”

Hear! Hear! I have a lot of trouble reading textspeak, if any post is littered with that stuff, I stop reading. It takes so much effort to decipher it. It is possible to argue against a player, and the manager, in a rational way with informed arguments. Another is to screech and rant and whine, using lazy “facts” culled from some blog or the always suspect press.

“That was on this blog wasn’t it?
Was it our favorite Anglophile by any chance?”

I don’t recall reading it on this blog, I heard it on a radio show and I’ve seen the name suggested about 3 or 4 times on other blogs. Beggars belief.

G4E, exactly right to your entire post!

The people who clamor for Mourinho argue that pretty football is all well and good but what we need is a tough, steely, winner and Mourinho’s the man.

The thing with Mourinho that these clueless wonders don’t get is this: the likes of Henry and Bergkamp would never have flourished under Mourinho. Imagine Messi, Kaka, Cronaldo, Cesc, Ronaldinho under Mourinho’s tender mercies. They’d be perpetual bench warmers, the way his most creative players were at Chelsea (JCole, Robben). Cesc might as well have stayed at Barca in obscurity and Henry would’ve been stuck in midtable mediocrity somewhere if Mourinho were our manager.

Senderos does seem to polarise opinion with plenty of people behind him as well as those who would let him leave.

He could even turn into a crowd favourite a la Willie Young or more recently Gilles Grimandi who both struggled initially.

He`s certainly not the reason why we didn`t win trophies although his Anfield performance was REALLY poor.

Had Hypia`s header not gone into the `postage stamp` things could have been very different but it did & Big Phil`s head went down at that moment.

I`m certain that if he played for a Pompey or Man City he`d be superb for them but I just have a feeling he won`t overcome the critics at Arsenal.

Gooners seem to be the most moaning, whinging, and fickle bunch of basta, fans that exist. Always looking to the negative. Senderos today, whose turn tomorrow? It could be the 30 goal-a-season striker. F**k knows what’s wrong with him but it must be his turn.

I might as well join in and ask “How the f**k does Hleb get away with it”? Half a decent season out of 3, shots and goals rarer than an interesting comment from MOTD and all of a sudden we aren’t good enough for him

You bring a great point that I didn’t even think of NYmarcus. I was thinking of the whole team under Mouninho would perform the kind of crap football Mouninho like to play. But, you are absolutely right on individual basis, talented players like TH14, Cesc, and DB10 would’ve suffered greatly under him.

I really think Mouninho would be great for the English national team. Play that defensive, 10 man behind the center-line kind of football, and maybe he can win a Euro or world cup for England?

According to 365, United and Chelsea both about £750m in debt. United’s is mostly due to the loans Glazers took out to buy the club, and most of Chelsea’s is owed to Abramovich in an interest free loan repayable within 18 months if the Russian calls it in. Worth thinking about before people call for loadsamoney to be spent.

They haven’t included Liverpool in those figures who have about £300 - £350 million in debt from there new owners (And Gerrard calling for the manager to be backed with funds. How much do they spend every year?) At least our debt is based on an asset, and a revenue generating asset at that.

A rich sugar daddy would be a disaster.

Josef K.

Agree with your point, although there appears to be aggressive aquiesence in your synopsis.

I simply make the point that these blogs sink or swim based on the quality of the debate and struggle to understand when a blogger is blasted for being one thing or another. It seems to me that if you think Wenger is doing a great job, you are labeled as the “Arsene Knows” brigade, yet if you dissent from the ranks you are disloyal, The truth is somewhere in between. I think Wenger is doing a great job, yet if I agreed with all of his signings, substitutions and philosophies, then what is the point of opinion?

Liverpool will also have the cost of servicing the loan for their proposed new stadium.

Football really is getting into dangerous territory.

It is still flavour of the month but these things can change.

I dont know how anyone would prefer Mourhino than Arsene. People do not take into account the money that was at his disposal, he could buy the cream of the crop and even sit some on the bench the whole season. There is simply no real logical arguement to prefer him, or do those who would like him at the club think he could perform the task that Wenger has over the years with the sed budget?

As far as this defensive type of ball that obviously some want, are u mad? I don’t know about you but football is not just about winning to me but entertainment, winning with class (Brazil, France hate to say but Man U). I for one hate to watch a defensive game, no need for a sleeping pill or a warm cup of milk. Football is about scoring goals primarily, so this play not to loose thing is not for the general spectator but just the fans of the specific team (trying not to loose). Think about it, can every fan regardless of the team they support watch a Chelsea, Liverpool match and be consistently entertained? something isn’tt right if thats not the case, to me at least. The fans should be entertained along winning for the most part.

God Bless!!

Rosey, i think constructive criticism is great as it causes people to think and not just go along with what the manager says. What Wenger has said about certain players takes me by surprise at times as I just don’t see the end product on the field. again, only an opinion.

Has anyone read the latest article on goona talk aparentally Pat Rice’s Wife is ill and he could be stepping down as Wenger’s no 2 to take time to care for her.

If it is the case i wish him all the best (what a guy) but Big Tone as number 2 I’ve been an arsenal fan my whole life and i had the utmost respect of Big Tone as a player but, i don’t think Tony has enough up top to take Pat Rice’s place as no 2 to Wenger.
I would love to have him onboard somewhere within the coaching team and think he would be an asset to our defense, his motavational skills would come in handy for geeing the lads up. But personally i don’t think he would cut it in management

Rosey, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with criticisms per se. We have regulars here who criticize players and the manager all the time. I think Joseph K was just referring to the screamers, the hysterics who don’t provide rational informed arguments, they just throw tantrums, and are immune to evidence that challenge their rigid beliefs. It doesn’t help when all they do is shout at you with caps and exclamation points.

The whole Ade debate is rife with this — and I say this as someone who’s had serious doubts about the player and am still dubious about his attitude (not his results, tho, which are unarguable).

However there are those who trash him beyond all logic, even when you provide solid objective stats to challenge their lazy assumptions. It’s that kind of irrational prejudice that prevents reasoned debate.

There’s nothing wrong with questioning Wenger, I think every Arsenal fan should question him, we shouldn’t be mindless robots. I don’t think he expects people to just mindlessly shake their heads and wag their tales at him (he’d probably scream in terror, anyway). :-)

PaulN, a lot of gooners complain about the high ticket prices and no trophies. Under Mourinho we might get trophies, but a lot of gooners would also complain about high ticket prices and dreadful, boring football. jamie’s right, gooners are often mired in constant moaning and groaning.

Rosey,

I can’t honestly say I know what ‘aggressive aquiesence’ is, you’ll have to enlighten me there, and of course Google too!

I would have to disagree slightly, I don’t think the quality of debate is what makes a blog prosper of whither on the vine as it were. Rather it is the ability of the blog, and the community it generates, to feed its readers the tone of comment and discussion that they are looking for.

For example, there is one blog which has a real bee in the bonnet about Wenger and define everything in black and white along that line - you think Arsene Knows full stop. Or you think Arsene is making a right pigs ear of it full stop. Clearly neither view has any particular footing in reality. But that blog attracts hundreds of comments a day all completely towing the line, those people will continue going there to read what they want to hear - rather like people buying the newspaper of their political persuasion.

This blog has a more measured approach and more often than not the comment page reflects that. I think the majority of the posters who regularly frequent it are of the same view - and we all come here for just that reason, as do the bloggers above go to the alternate blog.

So in a sense we split in to tribes along party lines and when someone with a contrary view pops up he will be ganged up on. jumped upon and made to make his case. Just the same as on the other blog.

Its all of a rather primeval tribal nature I suppose, probably to be expected given the nature of the game that motivates it.

So to go back to the original point, I don’t think there is opinion or debate, only agreement or argument. Its the nature of the beast, and the beast is a man.

I still think Sendy is not that bad compared to all the other CBs. He can still improve his game with more playtime. I agree with YW that he should go on loan but I will say for a year to get him on the right track.

Coming back to Toure and Gallas, Irate them
no more than 6/10 and Sendy in my opinion is 5.5/10, which is within the same ball park.

Gallas lacks pace, but can read the game @31
Toure is prone to errors but is a bit pacy.
Sendy can read a game, not pacy and sometimes lacks confidence but he is 23!

I recall how good Senderos was during the CL run a couple of years ago. I wonder why people always have to blame an opponent’s goal as a mistake by a defender, rather than good play by the attacker. Evryone makes mistakes, so why always blame Senderos.

However, he is not the problem. The problem is the fact that too many of the goals we concede come from crosses, from right side and left.

In any game, you will see how many times the ball is crossed to the centre, simply because the opponents have all twigged that that is our weak point.

Yes, let us bring in Adams as a defensive coach, because that is what we need more than anything else. If you score as many goals as we do, if you can stop the flow of gaols against from crosses, then we must succeed.

I don’t see much danger in the debts of MANU. As far as they continue to hold onto their fan base and win at least a cup out of the four each season, I mean CC, FA (the title is for us from next season) they can manage with the debt. Their plan is to win something and they’ll be fine as their fans will continue to support it.

Chelsea on the otherhand will need to continue to survive under Abramovich and once he’s alive, they’ll have no problem to continue to spend big.

I’m rather afraid for POOL, they’re carrying a debt of 350 already as a result of the takeover and also player purchases which they persist on. Their takings are not so good and if they go ahead to build the stadium, it will add another 400 to the existing debt.

The only club with security among the Top 4 is the Arsenal, the future is bright.

I’m really amazed of fans confidence in Senderos after all his ‘one major mistake in every match’ ( quoting Mourinho, that has caused us pains at times.

He’s useless. If he’s that good as some of you claim, why is that no club is trying to get him?

For all Hoyte’s problems even though younger than Senderos nobody gives him any sympathy, meanwhile Aston Villa has been chasing Hoyte for his signature since last season.

Senderos is a player who’s had chances and failed to be consistent for years. The problem is he’s not prepared to learn and don’t listen to advice.

Ashley Cole in his book claimed that he walked away at Colney when Keown wasn’t happy with his play and came in to advise him. He just walked off he said; no wonder the young man has become a flop. Good attitude? Wrong there.

According to this, Juventus want to bid for Senderos but he doesn’t want to leave Arsenal:

http://www.fansfc.com/frontpage/frontpagenews.asp?newsid=185354

According to this, Juventus are lining up a bid for Senderos, but he doesn’t want to leave Arsenal:

http://www.fansfc.com/frontpage/frontpagenews.asp?newsid=185354

Who’s giving Senderos advice and he’s not listening, you Howard? :) Why don’t you tell us who’s your insider on the training grounds?

You’re right on Cole though, he’s a flop and very good at being one.

Also, if Aston Villa want to sign Hoyte doesn’t that make him a mid-table quality? I thought he is better than that, but has a long way to catch up with Sagna.

evening gooners

shit sagna not in the french team?

I cant believe that!!

and i also cant believe some one has read coles book!!!!!

Duke, perhaps the pages were hanging on a piece of string in someone’s toilet (best place for crap).

howard…
as hard as i may try to read and make sense of ur ridiculous views…. the more frustrated i become..

Why in the hell u want to quote the c*** murinho??

I mean look at what chelsea have become since ranieri left…. look at how it makes the owner roman sick… if chelsea continue winning 1-0 like they do… soon 1-0 scorelines will be banned.
just imagine someone of the calibre of sheva at arsenal or milan or barca… fu** he was made to play CM during murinho… he is the biggest c*** of all times… this comes from an arsenal fan which makes all the more sense coz i follow arsenal for the METHODS and the results… not the trophies only…

Where do you come from, Howard???

Will murinho be ever appointed coach of milan, barca or real??????????????
NEVER!!!!!!

dont you think murinho was more than able to lead chelsea to lead to at least 2 cups this season CC and EPL/UCL??
Why the f*** was he kicked out???

Stop bringing that sh** to this blogspace… lets talk about ARSENAL…which you are also a fan of…I guess

and btw… young guns has a pic of nasri in arsenal colors… so official news tommorrw on website.

Am happy but for one segment where young guns points out nasri mite start wide just like rosicky!!!!

Oh god WHYYYYYYYYYYY???????????????????????

naga gunner you complain about Senderos being useless last time i checked when Toure was at the Afcon he did a very good job and if i may ask you how many mistake did he do this season and then compare that with Toure and Gallas you will find ou that he has made roughly the same mistakes as them. He is on 23 so that makes him young and apart from Song he is the only defender we have who does not back away from stikers like Toure and Gallas do all the time. I think Yogi is right that he needs to play a bit more regularly and i would keep him than Eboue coz to tell the truth i dont think there is anything new that Eboue wud give to the team that we dont have. Senderos needs to polish a few isssues then he will be alright. I remember people where saying the same about Song but now everyone acts like he was their favourite player.

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