Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | May 6, 2008

Flamini’s Departure Leaves Questions To Be Answered

So the worst kept secret in football is out and Mathieu Flamini has signed a four-year deal with AC Milan. I wish him well and thank him for the service he gave the club last season. His decision appears to be driven by money but with his family heritage coming from Italy, it might be too simplistic to put it purely down to that. Without wishing to seem nasty or to have sour grapes, I will be disappointed if he plays at Sunderland this weekend. His time at Arsenal is over and Arsene should continue to play those who will be at the club in the future.

Even if it had been a home fixture, I would have been dead against Flamini appearing in an Arsenal shirt again; there is no ‘fond farewell’ for services rendered – one excellent season does not warrant that and it is more important that planning ahead takes precedence. Indeed, with second place now out of sight, there is a strong case for Arsene to put youngsters into the squad and to exclude Flamini entirely. That might seem churlish but it is pragmatic. It is another match for someone to gain experience in, particularly as it is away from home against a team who will play with a more direct style.

It does seem a case of the biter bitten though and for Arsene it is depressingly familiar. Flamini joined with some rancour from Olympique Marseille and history is repeating itself, someone who has turned into a valuable player has left for peanuts or in this case, absolutely nothing. For Arsenal, it is another player who they have signed through contractual escapism leaving in similar circumstances; Sol Campbell tucked them up like kippers to join Portsmouth, having apparently indicated that he wanted to move abroad, given a ‘free’ to facilitate this. More disconcertingly, the hierarchy at the club have allowed someone who was important to go through running down their contract, in a similar fashion to Edu. The question is why have those lessons not been learnt?

No doubt, there will be calls that this would not have happened had David Dein still been at the club. Well, he was there when Edu left so that is no guarantee and in any case, one set of circumstances does not dictate that he should be welcomed back now especially considering he would be smuggling in a twenty-stone suitcase full of unwanted baggage. Indeed, Edu and Flamini are similar cases. Both had struggled to get into the midfield on a regular basis and once they had achieved their aim, they left through negligence on the Board and Arsene’s part.

The key issue for the club is that the long-term replacement for Keith Edelman must have football connections. It is no good using the ex-CEO of Birds Eye if the man cannot open doors; Arsenal have to decide if the Board is there to service the City or the football club. Whilst the property revenues are as important as the football-related revenue streams, the club will be around long after the flats and warehouses have been developed and sold. The gene pool might be smaller for them to choose from when selecting the new man or woman but it is the busiest time of the year in the transfer market and a repetition of last seasons timing for transfer deals hinders rather than helps. I would almost beg the Board and Arsene to get all deals done and dusted before the start of Euro2008 to get matters resolved.

Alexander Hleb seems to be the most likely target next for press speculation, followed no doubt by a summer of Spanish-based rumour about Cesc Fabregas. The Times this morning seeks to cast doubt on the Byelorussian’s future, printing unsubstantiated claims that Hleb ‘has confided in several of his team-mates that he is planning to join Inter Milan and his representatives are understood to have agreed a four-year deal with the Italian champions’.

According to the paper, ‘Hleb is understood to be frustrated by Arsenal’s failure to win silverware, as well as concerned that the club’s pay structure will prevent him earning what he could pick up elsewhere particularly given the policy of awarding only one-year extensions to players approaching 30.’

That last part is, as I understand it, incorrect with Arsene offering that type of deal to those over 30. However, as I mentioned the other day, it strikes me as curious that the club knowing the FIFA Article 17 and its contents have not moved to offer Hleb a new deal. Arsene’s reaction to the meeting in Milan in February suggested that he wanted the player to stay and his subsequent desire to report them to the highest powers in football indicate the same. This last part is a hollow threat and Inter know it.

Arsenal had the chance to report Real Madrid when they defaulted on part of the Anelka fee but chose not to; the same club tapped up Vieira and received no complaint other than in the media. Even Fabregas admits to meeting with Calderon last summer and nothing was done about that. If the Board are to do something, do it otherwise silence is golden would appear to be the better option.

‘til Tomorrow.


Responses

  1. Its ok, Flamini is more than replaceable! Anyway going by what normally happens to our ex-players he will do his knee early in the new season and be out for most of it!

    Gattuso is hankering after a move to the prem I believe it would be a good idea to get him in for a season or two! He still gets about the park like a demon and although he didn’t have a great game against us he is still a class act.

    Also I think we should seriously look at Carlos Cuellar that guy has been emmence all season for Rangers and especially in Europe! What do you guys think?

  2. It’s a no-win for Arsene. While I agree with keeping a pay structure, at some point, to compete at the highest level, you have to pay at the highest level. It’s one thing to say you don’t want to waste money on transfer fees. It is another to not pay your people well.

  3. We are becoming a feeder club for others in europe.

    we have been “rebuilding” for 3 years, but we need to ask what those 3 years without trophies were for if the players who finally become top class players after making their fair share of mistakes leave as the perfect finished product to other clubs.

    If this team breaks up I have to say arsene has to go, NOBODY IS INDISPENSIBLE!!

    Now we are talking about bringing in another unknown player to replace him, who will also make his fair share of mistakes in getting experience.

    THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL IF WE DONT WIN A TROPHY NEXT SEASON THEN ARSENE NEED TO GO!!!!

    P.S why the hell is Senderos such an indispensible part of Arsenal. I DONT CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS HE IS USELESS!!!!

  4. Ole Gunner, the simple fact is Flamini did not deserve to be emongst the highest earners at the club after just one good season! I think that even if we had matched Milan’s offer he would still have gone. After all he has Italian parents!

  5. I agree that Flamini shouldn’t be considered for Sunderland, but can’t agree with you say this was board negligence Yogi, every Arsenal supporter to a man would gladly have let Flamini go last summer. Some brave souls would have said he was worth keeping as a squad man, but no-one could imagine this change in midfield form, Arsene included. Just one of those things. In fact, the only poor behaviour I see from anyone in this matter is from Flamini himself. Arsene Wenger has shown loyalty, fairness and faith in that man. He didn’t need to play Flamini this year, he knew he was on his last year of contract, he could have left him out if he didn’t sign, but no, he played him throughout, it cost us the services of Diarra, the morale of Gilberto, it pushed a greater talent, Diaby, onto the wing, and Denilson’s progress was stunted, all to give Flamini his place in the team. I feel so sorry for Arsene, for such a decent man to be shown so little respect or appreciation.

    This is Flamini’s career now, he’ll offer little at first, as will Milan, he will lose his place in the side, and by the following summer, having made only a handful of appearances, Milan will look to get his high wage off the books and sell their asset. Flamini will resist, as no-one else will pay that wage, have a second season of not playing then finally give-in the following the year so desperate will he be to reserect his career. There will be few takers, and he’ll complete his career as a rank average midfielder at any old club, living his life as a rich but unfulfilled man. We’re better off without him, but the whole episode leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. Lets hope Arsene makes some quick signings otherwise we’ll have a summer where that bad taste lingers.

  6. Naga, who would get in to replace Wenger?

  7. I have to agree about Flamini – and he should not be played on Sunday under any circumstances, and I dont even expect him to be the ground – he has gone and we all need to move on… quickly.

    Deep down I feel that Arsenal knew he would leave, and i think they probably offered him a new contract last summer, but he declined the offer, hence he could have left. But for him, he knew he would get a better wage if Milan did not have to pay a fee for him, he is only young so Milan could afford to play the waiting game. However, I just wish if Arsenal knew this, Arsene had played Diarra instead of Flamini. But I guess Diarra opened his mouth a bit early and we know the club does not tolerate such behaviour (hence Jens has not played)

    The positive drawn from the above is I suspect his replacement and Hlebs will be in our club within the next few weeks if he is not going to secure either Diaby or Song alongside Cesc.
    (Maybe it will Barazite)
    I truely hope it is finally Yaya Toure, a lot has been talked about him joing us over the last couple of seasons. He would have now seen that life in Barca is not as rosie from the inside, and could move this summer. TH will tell him how good a club we are, and of course Kolo no doubt will have an influence. I wont bet against TH coming back either….

    Hlebs position is different, if Thomas was healthier then it would not be as important as Theo and Vela are able to play there, but I think they are too young to go through every game for a whole season, so I expect Ben Arfa to be a serious contender to join us.

    I know the agents like to talk up their players, but too much has been said about Makoun for their to be no substance in this rumour and I think he will come to us also.

    So – in short, as previously blogged

    Out – Flam and Hleb – (For money)
    Hoyte. Senderos, Djourou, (for regular football)

    In – Ben Arfa, Makoun, Toure and Henry (poss Villa as his club are in a mess and we may get him cheap)

    Long summer of speculation looms -

  8. Rico, you just ousted 3 defenders and brought in 3 midfielders and a striker!!!

    Seriously, I want to know what everyone thinks of Carlos Cuellar??

  9. It’s going to be a long, long summer. If/when Hleb goes, we’ll be reading about an Exodus in the papers.

    Nice article YW.

    Flamini – what a weird situation that was. The truth is, he only became hot property in the last year of his contract. That, and the fact that he’s smarter than the average footballer are what brought it all to a head.

    And the lunatics coming out of the woodwork again. Arsene can stay as long as he likes. We bring in youngsters and no-name players because that’s the only way we can compete with Manure and Chelski. We simply haven’t been able to afford to do anything different. That situation will only start to change when the Highbury Square dosh comes in, but I have no idea what impact that will have on transfers etc.

    Had you heard of Sagna or Eduardo before this season? Sagna’s one of the best foreign imports this league has seen. 3 more Sagna-esque signings this summer and I’ll be more than happy.

  10. Er Hello?? Carlos Cuellar, anyone? Is there anybody out there?

  11. woops sorry – as said by all of us, we need to get a strong defender – but i dont know who is out there to fit the bill – my gut feeling is that Nordveit will be brought up from the reserves, and one bought – but Kolo and Gallas no doubt will be our main defenders again (sadly)
    Also, i can see Song being used in that position, hence the midfielders

  12. I am fed up of this happening season after season. Vieira, thierry, cesc, now Hleb and im sure cesc again. Arsenal, sort it out…..we never seem to learn. i really fear for our club. there is something seriously wrong here. I cannot bare to watch AFC fall apart.

  13. Arsenal claim to be a big club and that was the reason the moved stadium. Now that has been archieved they have still refused to act and behave like a big club. And till they start to act like one we would continue to get trampled upon.

  14. Rico, dare I say it but how about Carlos Cuellar as a defender?

  15. I agree one fantastic season does not mean he is very good. Don’t want to see in future our ‘fruits’ just goin on a Bosman, free transfer or some shit like that. And unless we compete in the salary scale we are goin to be in the losing end. I know we have a massive debts to pay but hope the board can look into this as soon as we get a new MD.

  16. Part of the reason we get such bad press is we don’t give the press transfer “earlies”.

    Flamini is joining a side where he has already been stated as being a squad player. He had also spoken to Juventus good luck to him but it feels more that Milan have sought to disrupt a side that were playing the best football in Europe this season. I have a sneaking feeling he might find life at Milan a little more testing than he’s used to.

    The Diarra situation demonstrates why the transfer market is to a large degree a lottery and those that want to play Championship Manager should appreciate the other aspects of recruiting players and how they fit into the club.

    I feel it was a pity Hoyte didn’t play on Sunday (was he injured)

    The club don’t report other clubs to FIFA because of the G14 alliance. Dein used it to ensure his posiition within the football world becoming G14 president. I also understood the former G14 clubs have an agreement not to use the Webster Clause.

  17. Guys,

    I think it is irrelevant if Flamini’s departure is in any way disrespectful to AW (i actually don’t think so as AW played him because he was the best player for this position, not to be nice to him). It is a fact though that it is :
    1-bad for the team, which AW wanted to keep together
    2-bad for the Club as we will need to spend to replace him, rather than fill some of the “gaps” in the team
    Obviously bad planning from the Club as it should/could have been anticipated (Flam could have signed a while ago, not doing so sent a clear message…)

  18. Jens is the MAN!!!

    At the time of his move to north London, Marseille coach Jose Anigo said: “He’s a traitor – this is a beautiful treason.”

    Exactly what has happened here. So its absolutely clear that the player has different priorities..ones which do not appeal to men like henry, pires, viera or even cesc.

    Wenger has a job to do… not only in filling the gaps but also in keeping the fans a bit more excited with signings which keep the fans happy.

    Common…. wont huntelaar wont match the scoring spree of torres???
    wont richards be more than happy to be with us than with those japs owned c.u.n.t.s.

    Villa said I am available…all we could manage is “…but” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Its abt to boil over… if wenger keeps his strike force restricted to Ade, Bendtner and the most prolific in appearances RVP… we will match anyone like we do…. but will finally be again a 3-4 place finish.

    Velais a very good prospect so is walcott… seriously I have more faith in clichy as a winger than any of these guys.

    My summer wishlist:
    Huntelaar, Quaresma, Richards, and another winger ..mab bothello would be a good option.

  19. Jens is the man!!!

    Flamini is another cashley.
    At the time of his move to north London, Marseille coach Jose Anigo said: “He’s a traitor – this is a beautiful treason.”

    ………………

  20. hboy. I think you summed it up well. Who sets the standard for wages anyway. Eachclub will offer more just to get players they want.

    Arsenal onthe other hand beilieve ij their abulity to groom theplayers that they want hence there is not panic to over pay players.

    Am a computer person. Be sure that some of my fellow computer people in the oil and gas industry earn 3 ce my salary doing less work than me, so what do i do if I cant get a job in the oil and gas industry, kill my current employers? I am aware of the wage structure before coming in.

    We need to keep grooming our players from young. That way, we will get enough of them that actually love the club and are willing to stay on. Its part of what I like about the club. Quie principled and classy in their way of doing things.

    We will win trophies again, be sure of that.

  21. “It is frustrating that Modric, like Woodgate before him, should take less money than we offered to move to the bright lights of London and European football with Tottenham next season…”

    Newcastle chairman Chris Mort

    So, see that comment from Newcastle? Its about a players determining hat he actually wants, not just about money….

  22. drew10

    I’d take that as no-one knows enough about him…;-)

    Personally, I only saw Rangers in Florence but he had a good game. Mind you, Stepanovs probably had one good game and Arsene saw it…

    YW

  23. You cannot comare Flamster with Cashley. Flamini saw out his contract and never bad mouthed the club. He has not moved to one of our biggest rivals for just money, he has moved to one of the biggest clubs in world football. He was never an Arsenal fan as a boy and never said he was going to renew his contract which he was entitled to let run down.

    The club is at fault here not the player, I wish him all the best.

  24. Yogi, it would appear so. The fact is Cuellar has played like he did in Florence all season and has won the SFA player of the year. I have seen him play a lot of times and he is fantastic! He is great in the air and reads the game brilliantly!

    He seems to be in the right place everytime the ball comes into the box!

  25. ppl are talking like we’re gonna buy a new half of the team! to be honest unless hleb leaves i only c one addition & thats at CB,
    as far as replacing flamini goes well just last summer he was considered a bit part player…but he stepped up.
    now we have 3 players who have more talent than he ever or will ever have & its their chance to prove themselves..specifically diaby who has been around the first team for a bit now & is at the right age! if he doesnt stamp this place then he simply wont ever be a regular for us! esp with the talanted song & denilson waiting on the wings!

  26. No way should Flamini be involved cast him out immediatley Hleb too if he wants to go. They are good players not Great. Arsenals way of playing makes them look better than they really are. Theo, Cesc, Ade, RVP are the future of Arsenal. And if the others want to join old teams in Italy for a few extra quid then go now.

  27. I personally think Y. Toure to be a good player and would be an ideal replacement for Flamini, but I googled him and there were news that he needs surgery during the offseason.
    So, I doubt Wenger will bring him in because what we need is a direct replacement for Flamini(a quick fix, really). Such a shame, if he came, I would have been very excited.
    There is speculation linking us with Michael Johnson and Niko Kranjcar, how do you guys rate these players? Do you think these deals will happen?

  28. if wenger wanted yaya he wouldve got him a year or two ago when he was available for 1-2 million from monaco..he had him scouted properly as kolo recommended it..but obv must’ve not fancied him…to be honest even tho i dont think we’ll buy on ebut if i had to choose it would be that blondie volseo feller from sporting! young, great on the ball, passing shooting/free kicks, good defensive awareness…but would cost a cool 15/20 mill :(

  29. Actually, I read somewhere that Arsene actually liked Yaya but due to visa complications and such, failed to sign him.

  30. 1st things 1st lets get a centre back and striker then worry about Flamini replacement coz i think the club has 3 other players who can step up and give us the same as Flamini. I think with regualr foot ball Diaby and Song can do better.

  31. As in Edu’s case Flamini is a value judgement. If another team places a greater value on a player than you do then you just have to accept that if that is what motivates the player he will go. If you believe you can replace the departing player with someone of equal or better value then you have nothing to lose.

    As for Hleb, if Inter have offered him a deal while under contract, then they are in clear breach of FIFA rules (Article 17.4). This would lead to a ban on registering players for up to 2 years along with other sanctions on the club and player. It almost certainly isn’t true – at least not in any formal sense.

  32. really! ive liked yaya from when i saw him play in turkey! but before that he was in beveren which is like a feeder club so arsene wouldve had a look at him since about 2001 as thats a feeder club to us. im pretty sure if arsene really wanted him he wouldve sorted something out he usually does look how many other africans we’ve signed!
    anyway i still think previded he steps up diaby is more than capable of filling that void!
    he’s got so many weapons to his game an eye for a pass, blistering shot, fierce tackle! he just needs to be a bit wiser on the ball sometimes & no doubt he’ll be enroute to becoming one of our top players! i think apart from a CB we might buy a winger, ben arfa looks tempting!

  33. YW at your usual high standards

    What concerns me and like the rest is that we are extremely vunerable to other clubs poaching us. Although Ronaldo had been poached but you do not hear Ferdinand /Terry/ and etc being poached as easily. This thing happens most often to The Arsenal year in year out , we have to ask ourselves why?

    a) we are not paying players at market price ie we are under paying our players.
    b) we are not consistently winning in Europe yet so some players think taht moving to a bigger club like Barcelona/AC Milan/Real Madrid will make that leap.
    c) we have a retrictive wage structure as per point a) but at the end of the day it will cost us more money losing well ingrained players like Hleb/Flamini to new signings that will cost more money overall and take longer to get use to playing in the EPL and in the Arsenal.

    We console ourselves that the Flamster is not irreplaceable, that is porbably true but it would do us a world of good for early next season form if he and Hleb were to stay. We have two midfile players well season playing with Cesc and teh rest. How much is that worth?? IF we want a good start next season and get back the EPL alot more than most of us would like to admit.
    Any new players will take at least 6 months to get use to the EPL and the Arsenal and Song may be the option he has not played in as many games as Flamini before he come to his own this season.

    So losing the Flamster is a big deal and if we are to lose Hleb we lose the 1/2 of our first choice midfield this season. It is a big deal. Keeping the pay structure may just be cutting our nose to spike our face.

    We get in one new CB and 2 new CM and probably a new striker. That is 4 players that will need time to adapt.

    We are gambling with next season by not being able to keep this team together.

    I am not sure what to do but the way we are doing it does not bode well. We need to know how to keep players happy and willing to stay.

    Up The Arse!!!

  34. I’m really surprised so much attention has been given to Flamini’s departure. For a start, do you think he would be first choice at Milan? The best he can hope for is to deputise for Gattuso when he’s injured or if they are playing a not-so-important game against a low ranking team. For that matter would he be first choice at Man U, Chelsea, Real, Barcelona or even Liverpool? The answer is quite simply no.

    I really dont give a stuff that he’s gone, he was never a legend and he was never someone that instilled fear into the heart of the opposition in the way Vieira did.

    For Hleb, read Flamini no real difference. However, it shows the incompetance of the club that they allow yet another player to walk away without a fee and all this in a period where they are pleading poverty. I’m sorry but this lacks total credibility and they should stop treating fans as idiots.

    On the one hand they put forward a business plan to demonstrate the clubs elevation in status and how the worlds greatest players will pull on the red & white of the Arsenal Shirt. Then the facts emerge we can’t keep a middle ranking player for financial reasons to what is supposed to be one of our major European competitors!

  35. We are now a feeder club for the Italian and Spanish giants.The question must be asked why we cant keep our players.And don”t be suprised if Cesc goes next.

    It shows a complete lack of ambition.Wenger builds a team then every summer we lose players.Will Man utd lose Ronaldo and Rooney this summer of course not.

    This farce will not end unless the wage structure is broken.

    We can”t moan about Flamini because we all loved it when Sol left the Spuds for us

  36. Bad managment from Wenger he let Diarra go when he knew there was a good chance Flamini would go in the summer.He should have asked Flamini at christmas to comit himself before we sold Diarra.

    Its easy for some fans to say Flamini only had one good season.The point is he brought out the best in Fabregas.

    Strange isnt it we keep a clown like Eboue and let go of Diarra,Helb and Flamini.But dont worry Arsene knows!!!!!!

  37. Once again, it is sad to see someone who has completed his training leave at little or no monetary gain to the club. We have had many players go in similar circumstances, although not many went on to fulfill their potential. Edu, Sol, Wiltord, Pennant, Aliadere, Bentley etc. Why we are at such disadvantage is cos richer clubs treat us like a feeder club. Why then are we treated as a feeder club? That’s cos how we carry ourselves and how we do business. If we continue to be a miser when buying or be stingy with our wages, then you cannot blame others for treating us like this.

    And with little money, we embarked on a cheap youth recruitment policy. Because AW made us successful at it, it is no surprise that rich clubs wait for our products to hit the market, and by offering the young products huge amounts of money, it is no wonder they leave.

    We also go around and tell the world how cheaply we got Jens for because we had no money, otherwise we would have gotten Cech, and how close we nearly got Cristiano Ronaldo or Frank Ribery (but did not), what are we telling others? We are telling the world we cannot compete financially.

    Arsenal should go out and compete with others to buy finished products. I know it is against AW’s grain to do so. But if we do not do so, we will always be rebuilding, or in transition, cos each time we are nearly there, someone pulls out a brick and leaves and once more, our rebuilding collapses. Then we need to rebuild again. It will never be finished, and as a result, Arsenal is finished!

    It is no joy watching Arsenal go this way. Who can say, for more money and silverware, soon Cesc will be leaving, followed by RvP, then Theo.

    One way to stop this is to buy players who are finished products, and are experienced to fight for silverware for the next 3 to 4 years. Spend 30million pounds without the need to offload, and the rest will sit up and take notice that we are a buying club, not a selling club. We deserve more respect than what we are getting now.

  38. If anyone imagines for one moment that we can’t keep players because we don’t pay the level of wages others do then they will first need to reconcile that with the fact that we have (by some margin) the 3rd largest annual wage bill in the PL. Only slightly behind ManU in total terms but ahead as a percentage of revenue. Only the distorted finances at Chelsea allow them to have a wage bill some 40% higher than ManUs in total terms.

  39. HEY DREW10

    I would bring in someone with a bigger ambition.

    By the way MARCHELLO LIPPI WOULD BE IDEAL!!

  40. Flamini is no longer a middling talent. Just look at the games The Arsenal plays without him, it lacks the energy and pace to keep our attacks effective and he keeps opposing midfielders under constant pressure. Cesc is half the player he can be without the Flamster. It is a team game and Flamini have become a very important part of the team. There are more skill full players in our mid field but none as effective as the Flamster this season in the Arsenal team.
    Ditto for Hleb. When 3 of them Hleb , Cesc and Flamsters were is full flow the team is in full flow and the Arsenal had pundits and fans alike ooing and ahiing

    We must not lose Hleb, the Flamster is history but we must never allow what happen to Flamini to be repeated again.

    Up The Arse!!!

  41. Chris P Bacon on May 6, 2008
    at 10:01 am

    Bad managment from Wenger he let Diarra go when he knew there was a good chance Flamini would go in the summer.He should have asked Flamini at christmas to comit himself before we sold Diarra.

    Agree Chris…. but I think we all knw why wenger did what was required.

    This season the whole squad played with togetherness…flamini, hleb and cesc are not the half the player they are if they arent playing together..we saw tht in a no. of occassions this season. So bringing diarra in after knowing tht flamini isnt gonna commit to us….was not illogical but against the run of play…might have affected the balance of the side.

    Run back to one-two seasons back… imagine flamini’s condition. I think he took the opportunity before the start of this season with reasons not very apparent. He took it to rejuvinate his career… and if that helps Arsenal winning something…always better. Arsene provided him tht opportunity to him by giving him gilberto’s place, who was our player of the season before.

    In other words…. nothing unexpected has happened… Arsene miscalculated …and so did we…coz for us “Arsene knows” doesnt he??

    After everything..he is still the best in the world btw :D

  42. Gunner4life

    Arse does know but we cant keep losing players every summer if we want to win trophies.We play the beat football have the best manager but that wont keep the likes of Cesc if we remain trophyless.Its avicious circle

  43. When a player treats a club he has been with for all of his career, like Flamini did with Marseilles, it is obvious that his priorities are to engineer himself the best possible deal. So we should not be in the least surprised that he has done it again, let’s hope that Arsene has prepared for this scenario well in advance.

    Also if Hleb wants to go to Inter we should use the threat of sanctions to get the best deal possible. If these players do not want to stay, let them go, we may even replace him with a winger who knows where the goal is, for all of Hleb’s great talent, a player in his position should get more goals and assists.

    It’s just a shame that it will cause disruption to the team again and distract from the fact that we need a big trall certre back.

    Still it gives everybody plenty to talk and moan about. Just hope the season ticket prices don’t go up too much, I feel like the club are throwing our money away by letting these contracts expire. I also think it’s daft to operate a wage structure and then have players outside it, how can that work?

  44. good Flamin is go he can go to and play for Derby if he wishes but it is really bad that Wenger has to loss players before he buys another …it is common sense that the likes of United won the league not becos they have a very good first eleven but becos they consistently get results and you cant get results when you players are injuried and you have no backup no disrespect to the young gunners but the truth is they lack the experience to carry on when the likes of Eduardo was out , Rosicky , Van Persie and tired fabregas it is more annoying to know that Mr Wenger will still not do anything about this wold situation and probably we will keep developing players for other clubs…any soccer lover who will like to interact with other fans and dicuss any soccer related issues should check out Soccer fan base dot com it is free to join.

  45. After the Man Utd defeat there was talk that Gallas needed to be replaced as captain many fans wanted Flamini as Captain now some are calling him a traitor.Flamini is only doing what is his right and what Campbell did when he joined us.How can a club as big as Arsenal be so stupid to let a players contract run into its final year.We used Bosman when we signed Campbell we dont like it when it is against us

  46. I found it very sad seeing Flamini leave, we all know he would have liked to stay and it aint just about the money. he was enjoying his football and he knows he wont play a game to anything like we have played this season, but if we cant keep our players happy financially as well as in a sporting aspect we might as well be a mid table team.

    A few years ago we were expected to win the league by oursleves and by every1 else… that is because we had big name players who were paid well, look at :

    Campbell
    Pires
    Henry
    Ljungberg
    Vieira

    they were all earning rediculous amounts of money, and therefore had no reason to leave BUT there was always sum1 willing to pay more.. so we can never win in my eyes. Our club is run better than any of the otha Top teams, and id rather us develop more Cesc’s and Henry’s than be a club that steals greedy end product players from otha teams. Our unity is unique in our club, if u cant appreciate that then on your bike..

    Gd luck Flamini, i admired u but u have made a big mistake, even if he goes on to win a Champs league title he will never find again what he had at Arsenal.

    Gooona 4 Life

  47. Naga, do you truly believe there is a manager out there that has a bigger ambition than Wenger?? His ambition is to turn Arsenal into the best team in Europe which, seeing as we have beaten most of the best European giants since he has been here, he has almost acheived!

    And his ambition is to do this without putting the future of the club at risk, we should be tahnkful for this!

  48. guys i watched alex song play in the african cup of nations.He was the best middlefilder in the tournament considering that he had not played much football before the tnament, i bet he can do a better job than fla-money

  49. drew 10

    Does his ambition mean we lose two players every summer while our rivals keep there players and improve their squads.This penny pinching policy has to end NOW.Why build a 60,000 stadium if Wenger cant use the funds from it.You get no trophies for having the best run club

  50. Imagine a club of Arsenal’s stature hamstrung by a prohibitive business model that immediately turns away superior players in their prime years of 25-30? Insane. The Emirates will be Arsenal’s albatross forever.
    http://startingeleven.blogspot.com/2008/05/pain-in-arsene-first-flamini-now-hleb.html

  51. Mike,
    Apparently the stadium will be almost totally paid off in 2009, so hardly an ‘albatross forever’.

    What some supporters need is Patience.

    We all knew we would have to have a tight ship while we moved to the Emirates, so why are you all acting suprised?

    And we all knew that it is not Arsene’s style to go and buy 20-30m players!

    Flamini did what was his right to do – tell me a single person who wouldnt consider leaving their job, no matter how content, to go somewhere else paying 3 times as much!

    One good season with us did not justify his demands – and the club where right to stick to their guns.

    He is well replacable, so dont panic.

    As for Hleb – well, again, 1 good season in 3 doesnt make him a legend for sure.

    Andfor all his good work, if we can get a player who is 70% as creative, but can add 10-12 goals from midfield – then i would be happy.

    Arshavin anyone?

    Have faith fellow gooners – 2-3 players to the quality of Sagna / Eduardo in the summer – CB,CM and Winger and we will all be happy.

  52. How much money would Wenger have for his squad if we were still at Highbury.

    The club aren’t Chelsea or Man Utd it is important to have some financial constraint look at Leeds.

    There seems a tangible change in the atmosphere around the club and supporters. The club have achieved it’s goals for this season 3rd in the league with a minimum of 12 more points, only lost 3 times in the league this season reached the quarter-final of the CL reasonable cup runs.

  53. Ineteresting quote from Wenger “Gilberto is like Jens Lehmann, you can rely on them, they are fantastic professionals. Gilberto is a fantastic guy. We won trophies with Gilberto and Jens because they are special human beings. You do not win with average people.”

    Does this mean our squad is currently average in his eyes as we haven’t won anything??

  54. if it is all about money, which it is then maybe the time has come to look outside for more money, otherwise we will be this pure, moral wonderful club that never wins anything. many will say they would rather it that way and others would say sod it, lets bring in the cash. dein said arsenal would always struggle without extra cash and he is probably right.

  55. if a club can not afford to buy the best players or keep them due to the wages offered else where, there is very little chance that they can become the best team. all fairly obvious unfortunately.

  56. Does having the most money guarantee the best team? I am not sure it does, Real Madrid have bucketloads and have been underachievers for a long time till this year!

  57. drew10

    Underachievement is always a matter of perspective. If Arsenal had their success since the turn of the century, would we view it as underachievement?

    YW

  58. True Yogi, but just throwing money at the team does not guarantee success, we dont need the most expensive players we need the best players.

    Who would have thought we would be able to pick up one of the best right backs in the world for peanuts? Now how much is he worth, I would say at least trebble what we paid for him!

    It is all about paying the right price for the right player and not paying over-hyped and inflated prices this cash cow will surely come to an end at some point and only the frugel will have been able to prosper.

    Let’s not sacrfice the future of our club for our selfishness now!

  59. money doesn’t guarantee succees but nowadays without it you have very little chance of success. it is no coincidence we have won nothing in the past three years where the stadium has impacted our finances so much. as i said if you can not buy or keep the best players how can you win the big prizes, the players aren’t going to be loyal and stay are they?

    YW the old relative success argument is not relevant, arsenal the club are not the same as arsenal the club of 20 years ago. we were the best team 4 years ago by far and have severly fallen from that level. we can say every year look we are better than villa newcastle and spurs but quite frankly we should be, we have this hugs stadium, 5th richest club in the world etc etc, it is not unrealistic or inappropropriatte for the expectations to be higher than they were in the mid 80’s for example.

  60. Your damn right success a matter of perspective, when a side like Man U funds its recent success in such a precarious way.

    Click my name for fun reading.

    I read an interesting comment recently that they aren’t the richest club in the world – with 700m debts, they’re actually the poorest.

  61. Money is not the biggest issue at the end of the day but a players ambition to leave or stay. Henry was paid bucketloads of money but he left. People complain that we are a becoming feeder club to Italian and spanish teams, of all the players that left which one would you gladly take back? I remember before malouda went to chelsea a lot of people wanted him to come to arsenal but of the little i have seen of him there is nothing he can offer that we dont have. We always complain about our midfield not scoring a lot of goals the fact is our midfield creates a lot of chances and you know it if Eduardo had been ther till the end we would have won the EPL. We are third coz we could not defend and we missed 2 or 3 goals that wud have given us the title.

  62. Duncan you are so right Song will be ideal as DM now hes match fit.

    WE NEED TO ALL WAIT TILL AST REPORT ON THEIR MEETING WITH KEN FRY YESTERDAY. MAYBE HE WILL TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THE FINANCES

  63. i think the real disappointment of the flam situation is that we couldn’t keep hold of him and probably helb, not that the club should now go out and buy players for obscene money. we have all worked on the “team building” assumption that they would all grow together and we would rise to our former glory and however replaceable they both are we are still losing half our midfield after what was supposed to be a great season of improvement. whatever anyone says our limited budget now needs to stretch to 2 replacements as well as 3 new players to build on what we had.

  64. Sorry YW dont agree. Hboy and Matt spot on the rest not worth wasting time making a comment. What a clown who wrote get rid of the Boss, no brains no football sense useless comment.

  65. I don’t understand why some gooners ask why Arsenal go thru this constant tapping up / player poaching from Spain and Italy whereas the likes of Manu, Chelsea and Liverpool don’t go thru this as much as we do.

    Isn’t it obvious?

    We have more skilled foreign players than they do. At Manu only 1 player has been “tapped up” in the press by the likes of Real Madrid, etc.: Cronaldo. Why? He’s the only one worth their attention. Nani and Tevez are fine players but obviously not good enuf for their interest.

    No need to explain why none of the English players get their attention.

    Our players are young, highly skilled and generally paid less than at Chelsea and ManU. Or, rather, maybe they are PERCEIVED to be paid less by those clubs since we don’t have any Glazers and Russian billionnaires backing us.

    So of course they’re perfect targets for the big mouths at Milan, Inter, Barca and Real Madrid.

    There’s no mystery here.

  66. For what ever reason we will lose two of our first choice players this summer.How many of Man utd”s first team are leaving?Flamini was brilliant this season and Helb had his best season in an Arsenal shirt.Yet nothing could be done to keep them at the club.What sort of Message does that send to Cesc.

    We need a GK,a CB, Two midfielders and a striker.

  67. NY, you are right, it is because they are foreign, not paid as much as at other clubs, we are currently not winning anything and we are still a 2nd tier club in european terms and unless we change some of those dynamics nothing will change in the forseeable future.

  68. it is amazing that the web site still says nothing about flamini, i am gusssing we will not be seeing a picture special!!!!!!

  69. NYmarcus

    I would like to believe your comments that we have the best hence worth the tapping but let me remind you that ,I hate saying this becuase it hurts to to do so, Ronaldo, Hargreaves , Tevez, Ferdinand, Vidic, Rooney,and Evra are about to win the EPL and CL. Yes they were lucky but they made their luck we were short on both luck and experience.
    No matter how I hate to admit it I would not mind thme being Arsenal players.

    We are being tapped especially our best is because these so call big clubs know that we hae a wage structure(read sometimes underpaying players)lack of tradition in winning in Europe. AW stinginess is often misinterpreted as relative lack of ambition compared to the likes of Real Madrid, Manure, Chel$ki and Barcelona.
    Henry was whinning that we did not spend enough to compete before he left for Barca.
    All said and done I still believe AW is the best person to take this experiment forward but a few judicious splash of cash will not be untowardly viewed in our quest for trophies.

    Up The Arse!!!

  70. Perhaps I have not explain my frustraion well enough in our losing the Flamster. He together with Hleb are tried and tested effective players first in the Arsenal system and then in the EPL and CL. NO amount of money that we will need to spend now can guarantee such effectiveness. We can go ahead and splash 15 mio and we still may not get a proper replacement for Flamster straight of the bat. Who ever comes in needs to adapt to the Arsenal style and if he is not from the EPL then the EPL pace.

    So this wage structure needs to be re examined and our contract extension policies need to be looked into seriously.

    Up The Arse!!!

  71. Arsenal apparently has the third highest wage bill in the Prem League – very close to Man U who are 2nd. where is this money going?Henry,lundberg,sol campbell ,Pires have all left.
    Also apparently Arsenal over the last four years have made a profit on their transfers – unbelieveable. yet according to newspaper reports arsene’s transfer budget is only £25m – how can this be?

    What i want to know, where is the money – I asked this question a year ago. I know arsenal hae a lot of debt but a lot of it relates to the old stadium where arsenal are on course to make a £100m profit.

    Arsene needs to buy some english players who are less likely yo be tapped by foreign clubs.

    can someone here please explain?

    Great Blog by the way!

  72. Hello again, Yogi.

    Re Flamini, I don’t get it as a “bad management” issue. We got Flamini on a free, he played the system and left on a free. I don’t really see how you can blame the club for that. He wanted more money than Arsenal were prepared to pay and he really fancied playing in Italy. Fair enough. Just don’t drag it out for four months, Flamster!

    Regarding the club’s finances and transfer budget, what about all the clubs who have spent more money than Arsenal in absolute terms….and finished lower down the league, eg Liverpool? When you evaluate the effect of spending levels on performance, you have to compare the finishing positions and spending levels of ALL teams in the Premier League, not just the spending of the two who have finished above us.
    Money from “outside” is borrowed money – unless anyone knows of anyone who is prepared to donate, free, gratis and for nothing, several tens of millions of £££ to the club, every year. Borrowed money has to be repaid with interest. We are already in debt to the tune of £360 million, and that is just the capital. If you’ve got a mortgage you will know that over 25 years, including interest payments, you actually pay back up to double the initial amount. That is a huge burden. (Plus, in the event of a takeover, there could be the debt incurred by the person who buys the rest of the shares, and that debt would have to be repaid from club revenues.) Why load us down with more debt, with no guarantee that it will bring any more success? Again, check out the league position of Liverpool. So if money doesn’t guarantee success, then what’s the point in spending money you don’t have?
    IF success follows the borrowing, well and good, but you can’t guarantee that if you spend £x, you will gain £x+y in prize money. A debt repayment plan which, in order to work, is dependent on winning the league or Champions’ League is a bad repayment plan, because only one club at a time can win the league. It’s a gamble. What if you don’t win? What if the TV money dries up because advertisers are feeling the pinch and won’t pay premium prices for their slots? Far better to base your repayment plan on something you have more control over, eg filling your stadium. Fixing the interest rate payable on the debt was another smart move. The enormous debt is manageable because of the sensible repayment plan and a big dent will be made in the total amount owed when all the money from the Highbury redevelopment is in. It will be a tough first few years, yes, but we’re already halfway through that difficult period and from then on we will have more and more money, year on year from sources we can rely on. It’s pointless bemoaning the budget constraints – we have to have them in the short term, or we could go bust. It’s as simple as that.

    It’s horrible watching from the sidelines while Man U and Chelsea fight over the big prizes – it’s just wrong. If only there were some way that they could BOTH lose BOTH title deciders. However, let’s get real. We competed seriously for the league this season, for the first time since 2005. Sure, everyone’s moved on and strengthened, but so have Arsenal. Since last year, we’ve overhauled one of our main rivals and caught up hugely on the other two. It’s easy to look back fondly at the Invincibles era, when we were lords of the league, but everything moves on – change is the natural order of things. Nobody stays on top for ever. Dominance is cyclical, and we are on the way up from our low point under Arsene Wenger, which was the 2005/6 season.

    So many in the press and in the game want Arsenal to splash the cash, almost for the sake of it; this is because they have invested (psychologically) in the notion of price as a guarantee of quality, that you have to spend big to win big etc etc, so it would be horribly embarrassing for them if we won the league on a different philosophy. It’s like finding out that the person sitting next to you on the plane has paid much less for their ticket than you did for yours.
    We don’t need to splash the cash; we’ve got Arsene Wenger. His worst enemy would admit he can pick a player. We have top quality players – four players in the team of the year voted for by their peers. More than any other team and none of the four is Flamini. (Or Hleb, for that matter.) And they were all bought at sensible prices.

    The team we have, even with the ridiculous number and severity of injuries which our main rivals did not have to contend with, WAS good enough to win the league, as evidenced by the fact that we were in it, mathematically, until two games before the end of the season.

    And I can’t believe some people are wailing over the “loss” of players like Aliadiere. We can’t keep every player we’ve ever bought, regardless. He was sold because Arsene didn’t want him. Jeremie didn’t do much for us, but is getting on well at Middlesbrough. Everybody’s happy, surely?

  73. Hi all,

    I read with much interest the contributions of all of you and have a few things to add. According to KPMG, the majority of premiership sides are already mortgaging their futures on the hope of success. Now success is interesting term when applied to different clubs, because the measurements can not all be the winning of the title. Arsenal have deemed that their future needs to be on a even footing with the biggest clubs and to master that goal they have moved to the Emirates and had fans dig in to their pockets. The recent exit of Edelman may well start the focus away from the purely business element of the club and shift it back towards the playing field.

    We all need to realise that the move from Highbury had to happen, without it we were doomed to uncompetitive. Arsenal have a model, their business model is about foundations being put in place to ensure that the club survives and might I suggest thrive over the years to come. Hell, we are spoilt for what we have and yet like tots we throw our toys out of the cot when we want to complain about something. The loss of Flamini is disappointing, I feel like you do but he chose his exit. In the event Hleb leaves then again we have to accept that he made a choice and unlike some suggestions here, you cannot hope to hold on to a player who would like to leave. The case in point is Diarra, he wanted to go even after Wenger tried to talk him in to staying. Some people may blame Wenger for the attitude of the player, but the reality is that he had his chip when he arrived because I didn’t get regular football at Chelsea. Diarra, had no patience and yet believed he would just walk in to the 1st team and be a regular… we wasn’t and thus threw a wobbly until he was aloud to leave (I feel no loss for this player).

    I have faith in Wenger as I know many of you do, at the same time there are questions to be asked and he must realise that any vision must be adjustable in times of need. I don’t see that Arsenal’s wage structure is poor, they pay players very well. I would suggest that part of the issue is that Arsenal play such attractive football… the envious eyes of other clubs see the potential of a player and start the love affair. It was mentioned that Arsenal have a heavy burden of overseas players and I agree, this mere fact would suggest that players won’t see out their careers at Arsenal. If a player is willing to up root and come to England to play then we’ll be just as willing to leave those same shores for the bright lights of some where else. In a sense Arsenal are at the vanguard of this because of the recruitment policy employed by Wenger, but as Manchester United and Chelsea continue to add foreign talents they to well encounter more and more of these players shifting. Everyone mentions Ronaldo, yet having signed a new contract 12 months ago he is now pushing for another? Should a club give new contracts every 12 months? I hear a lot about players claiming I have been great this year, now pay me more… fair enough, then we should just as readily say you haven’t been great this year here is a 25% cut! I’m not a fool, I know this would never happen.

    I guess as I sit on the side lines and watch the beautiful game I am reminded that in most every sense I am lucky to support a club that has ambition. We have been the 2nd most successful club in England over the past 10 years, that isn’t bad :)

  74. As regards the Flamini affair certainly it would appear that this happens at Arsenal far too often. After Edelman a man like Dein with some experience of managing player contracts and transfers would be just what we need to protect our future , Sadly he comes with a fat Russian in tow. If we are inevitably going to loose the talent we have nurtured and developed then we need to look at player contracts well before they r up so that if the want to leave we can sell them for £20mill like other clubs to replace them. It does seem contradictory that we are told the club is financially stretched but yet we r never tying players down to contracts and r always giving our players away at bargain basement prices with the exception of Anelka from whom we got £24million? And a very well balanced perspective from you hboy.Cue more more press about Arsenal falling appart n Transfer speculation but agian I think Arsene will bring in 2-3 unkonwns a la Sagna ,n Diaby n Song given time cover the midfield.

  75. I agree with Fungooner and Toronto. Good intelligent supporters. Well done.

  76. Dein was in charge of players contracts etc when we lost Edu and Wiltord was he not ? You cant win em all

  77. Guys let’s face it, we don’t have the huge financial backing of a billionaire that just pores money into the club or buying players or giving them huge wages. I think the media & even the club hypes up out financial success but we really not there yet.

    This is the poor man’s life, the rich got richer on our backs, and they still try to squeeze the last penny we have. Same happens with Arsenal, other big clubs know we have little to offer on the financial side and they use that to their advantage and lure only the greedy players.

    We have two options:

    1- To go by with the same policy until our finances start to pick up in a couple of years. Unless, we want to borrow using our stadium as collateral but we have to understand if we miss it up, we can be another Leeds United.

    2- Sell the club to a billionaire and become his new toy. We will also be under his mercy, and the examples are Chelsea & Liverpool. In that case don’t get upset when Usmanov picks up the starting 11 and draws up the game plan.

    The wage structure was meant to cut off players trying to blackmail the club, and also means that the player must really want to play for Arsenal not only for relatively good money but for the club as well.

    Many of you want us to sign ego-inflated English players, but which one will accept our wage structure when they can play for Chelsea or the Mancs and earn 130K per week?

    The reason we always sign foreigners and young players, is because the little money we give is considered huge in their countries. Unfortunately some of them will get greedy and want more and will leave us for the highest bidder. At this point of our history, I would say f*ck them, a few years from now our financial situation will be much better and we will be able to buy and retain our players.

  78. Maybe we’d have more money for players if we hadn’t paid Henry £15 m for his last season or Freddie £70,000 a week to warm the physio bench both Dein decisions

  79. true about the lack of bottle in reporting the big boys,

    do you reckon arsene will pull another rabbit from the hat this summer?

    toure to centre mid? for example

    http://anotherarsenalblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/no-time-for-mincing.html

  80. The issue with contracts work both ways. Campbell anf Flamini arrived as they left. We can hardly complain. Gallas also threatened to use the clause to get out of Chelsea

    The mistake was the handling of Diarra. Two questions, would you give more than 55K to a player who has had one good season, and if Wenger really wanted him to stay, don’t you think he would have tried harder

  81. obviously wenger didn’t care that much or he would have done what it took to keep him as he surely would with fabregas.

  82. The usual quality piece YW. I wish I could get on here a bit earlier.

    As I`ve commented before Flaminigate was badly handled but some of the reaction to his departure is over the top.

    Yes, he had a good season but he`s no Vieira & certainly no Fabregas so let`s move on.

    I have a gut feeling that this summer may be a watershed for Arsenal in as much as failure to improve the squad quality wise will impact on our big players such as RVP & Cesc.

    If Hleb were to leave I think that indicates more of a lack of `something` than Flamini leaving does.

    All the big boys are going for broke & let them do a Leeds if they want but we need to do some prudent shopping & I believe AW will do that.

    Don`t be surprised with 4 additions in total especially if Hleb & one other go.

  83. I agree with Jamie & dan. If Wenger really thought highly of him he would have signed him on a long term deal a long time ago as he did with Fabregas, or appears currently doing with Sagna.
    ===

    It appears that Hleb rumors of wanting to leave are strong as well. I liked Hleb, he’s got talent but people are getting on Walcott’s backs for not living up to expectations and not scoring more goals. What about Hleb? he is older, more experienced, better ball control, yet he didn’t help with scoring in the 3 years he’s been with us. I know Theo is a striker, but with the amount of games Hleb played, he should’ve scored more…don’t you think?

    If he wants to go, I would say let him go….get as much as we can for him. I think his attitude in the last game he played, showed that he doesn’t care. Even if you watch AC Milan game, he was annoyed getting subbed in overtime?!

  84. if Arsenal are looking for a replacement for Flamini, here he is: http://pitacodogringo.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/is-hernanes-brazils-best-midfielder-since-kaka/

  85. Toronto makes an important point that some around here would do well to heed.

    Mortgaging your future on success?

    Spurs just confirmed a 300 million pound stadium project today, how on earth do you think they will compete with that hanging around their shoulders as well as a mountain of unpaid player debt to cover?

    Liverpool just got planning permission today on their 350 million pound project – they are broke now, how do you think they are going to be when that project kicks in? It hasn’t started yet.

    Manchester United were in the Guardian today as well, they have made a loss of 58 million quid this year. They have not been able to meet the payments on the debt and it is bigger now than at the start of the year – they REALLY have mortgaged their future on success. And success they have had, and will have again – unless Ronaldo gets injured for two months, three months even – that happens no then success for United. And then what? how long do you think the bankers will sustain 58 million pound losses that lead to non payment of interest?

    Manchester City are in for Ronaldinho and all the big names, but look at their owner. Citeh fans I know are crying into Sven Milk.

    West Ham. Well West Ham are West Ham.

    The point is this: we are in rude financial health. We may be going through a dry patch but we are on solid foundations, a couple more years of patience and we will be a relative financial powerhouse.

    Considering the restraints Wenger is operating under he IS working a miracle right now – Imagine what he or his successor will be able to do with the resources Wenger has ensured will be there in five years.

    I am astounded that our self proclaimed ‘chief financial officer’ has not pointed these basic points out frankly.

    Those of you bleating that the game is ‘different’ now, ‘Arsenal need to win now…’ ‘we need to invest to stay at the top’ bla bla bla, I ask you this: Do you remember how long we went without titles before 1989? How about before 1971?

    The club is positioning itself for the future and at the same time managing to credibly compete – if you can’t see that I don’t know what to tell you.

    In five years time we will probably be the most financially powerful club in the country. THEN you can have your David Villas and your Kakas and your outrageous wage payments.

    One final thing; those of you demanding success now: where were you when we were getting 15k at Highbury on a freezing wet January night? Where were your demands for success then? Where were you? Where will you be if we win nothing for 17 years? No where.

    That may seem arrogant, but if you know your history of Arsenal Football Club then you will temper your demands with the realism that that knowledge brings.

    Rant over.

    Yogi – nice one as always.

  86. Thank you Fungunner and Toronto for your sensible and intelligent view points and thank you Yogi for another thought provoking, balanced blog. Although when I saw the number of posts and caught a glimpse of some of the circular arguments on here, I was going to give the comments a miss because there’s a limit to how much you can read the same old moaning and second guessing that goes around at times like these.

    The fact is that Flamini has gone and nothing will change that. Others have left and others may well do the same, but again there is nothing we can do about that. I will continue to support anyone who wants to play for Arsenal and there are plenty of those, so any who don’t want to be here can just do one and I will not lose a moments sleep over it.

    It’s not all about money. For every Flamini, there is a Fabregas, who could have earned more money elsewhere, but stays at Arsenal because he appreciates the opportunity he has been given to play top quality football. Cesc could have left for Real Madrid last season for big bucks, but he didn’t. He may leave one day, but at barely 21 he is smart enough to realise that he is the ’star’ of this Arsenal team and I do not see him leaving a regular starting place at Arsenal for the bench at Real Madrid or Barcelona just for the sake of a few extra quid.

  87. Before blaming anything on Flamini, a question should be asked to AW why he did nothing to extend his contract when he was doing the same with the like of Eboue, Diaby and Hoyte.
    I think AW desperately tried to keep the lad only because of his performance this season; and Flamini knew it. A lot of fans don’t realise how frustating he can be for a player watching team mates who are better than yourself having their contract extended, when the coach is looking down on you.
    AW can be sometime a wild card.

  88. Before blaming anything on Flamini, a question should be asked to AW why he did nothing to extend his contract when he was doing the same with the like of Eboue, Diaby and Hoyte.
    I think AW desperately tried to keep the lad only because of his performance this season; and Flamini knew it. A lot of fans don’t realise how frustating he can be for a player watching team mates who are not better than yourself having their contract extended, when the coach is looking down on you.
    AW can be sometime a wild card.

  89. Well said Josef K – & I WAS there for many of those games against the likes of Coventry, Stoke, Luton et al when 25K was a good gate.

    Having said that, football has moved on & with it patience has long gone.

    The frustrating thing about this season was how close we were.

    I think a lot of that comes out in comments on this blog & it`s only natural to have a transfer wish list which most people would see as helping us bridge that gap.

  90. sad to see MF go – Ive been waxing lyrical all season about the balance and energy he brings to us. but we need to keep a lid on wages – and future wage demands – as it is we’re one of the best payers in the premiership (and therefore the world).
    I wonder if Matthieu almost swerved off the road when informed of arsenal’s 55k a week offer?

  91. i would have to agree with drew10

    i say goodluck to flamini!! arsenal & wenger are tighter then a ducks arse!!!

    personally i think flamini is worth more then £50,000 a week,and so did he.bollox to the club if they take the piss. wenger is niave enuff to think flamini will sign for that when he could get £100.000 a week!!

    wenger would have known they were only gunner offer that so he should have prepared for it!

  92. Paulie

    I am not sure that football has moved on so much, the numbers are bigger and the names are different – but it is still the same game that engenders the same emotions.

    At the end of the day Arsenal are still the same club, punching at about the same weight we were in the 80’s – until the finances from the stadium work fully through we still will be and expectations need to be on the same level otherwise unnecessary pressure could cause unnecessary recklessness.

    I think pragmatism is probably the biggest virtue an Arsenal fan can possess at the moment.

  93. Dukegoonem

    I don’t think Wenger was ‘naive’, more idealistic, romantic if you will.

    Henry, Vieira, Bergkamp played for Arsenal rather than earn more elsewhere – he probably wants every player to play for the love of the club, for the fun of the game.

    Then again, maybe that is naive?

  94. josef k

    did vieira not leave for milan to fatten his wallett?
    and what about henry going to barca? was that just purly because of the chance for silverwere!! it might have been but i dont believe that.

  95. josef, i have NEVER said they should spend money they don’t have. if they don’t have the money then we will have to do with what we have and no one is better than wenger at that.

    as i said it is just demoralizing when we can not buy or keep the best players due to cash restrictions. it would be nice to know how long the restrictions are going to last because that is where the frustration kicks in when the club say we have money to spend and it is not spent to strengthen. if they say we have x and that is it then fine i have no problem with that.

    i do maintain that the game is totally different now financially, just look at chelsea and say the game hasn’t changed!!! they would be out of business let alone 2 games from the double if it wasn’t for abramovich. money has totally taken over the game and the game is much worse for it.

    and i can tell you i sat there through the dross of john hawley et al against brighton etc and fully appreciate what we have now, but that doesn’t bare any relevance to today and the future.

  96. it would be interesting to know where the money is mind you. i assume there was a business plan that took into account the capital and interest payments and as revenue seems to have surpassed what they expected and we have made a net gain in the transfer market in the last few years, plus saved wages on some of our biggest earners, TH, FL, Sol, PV, RP etc (i assume our youngsters are not earning what the 2004 team were earning) then it would be nice to know are the club where they thought they would be financially or worse off and if so why.

    people should be patient and i think they are, the ground is full every game with people paying the highest prices seats in the country let alone the programs food etc and there is no pressure on wenger what so ever despite the results, this would not be replicated in any other club in world i guess.

  97. Duke,

    Viera, Henry left after giving the club the best years in their life as footballers? They are also well aware of Wenger’s policy of no more than one year contract after the age of 30, if they wanted money and lots of it, they’d have left at age 25-26 at the peak of their careers. Bergkamp was a whole different player. Unfortunately you will not find these players nowadays.

    The game has not changed, and the rules are pretty much the same but “people have changed”

  98. I think have money or not have money is a game of throwing the blame around. The board didn’t want to say, oh sorry we don’t have money so it’s our fault. Wenger gets put in the corner because the club says the money is there he just doesn’t want to spend it, but he defends the club by saying we have enough players and I will stick with my young ones.

    I think they’re trying to correct that now by stating the truth, we are on a tight budget, and we have a big debt we have to make sure we pay. With the global sh*t economy, especially the Real Estate market our hopes of making more money may be delayed.

    So a little bit of reality check would help, and a little bit of reasonable expectations can go a long way because with all that, we are still in the top 4 and were closer this year to the title than in the last two years.

  99. the difference is PV and TH were legends, two of the greatest footballers in the world. flamini is an above average player, who is not a regular international and has had one good season in his career. it is sad that we can not hold on to players of that calibre. The cases of PV and TH were far more understandable.

  100. Dan you and I are in complete agreement again. Lets hope AST got more info yesterday. like what is the 50 million in non football salaries.and does the 15 million a year interest cover principal also.

    Most MANU supporters are happy with the Glazers despite the debt and Glazers are happy because their investment is worth more than they paid for it, and in 2 weeks they may have the double.

  101. G4E,

    it is not a blame game, it is an honesty issue which does create the expectations. if we have no cash then it is what it is, if we do have the cash then why aren’t we spending it, on additional wages to keep players or buying quality players to strenghthen the squad. i think it is a perfectly reasonable question for supporters to ask. there does seem to be mixed messages coming from wenger and the board and as fans who pay such high prices we are entitled to know the truth.

  102. G4E,

    it is not a blame game, it is an honesty issue which does create the expectations. if we have no cash then it is what it is, if we do have the cash then why aren’t we spending it, on additional wages to keep players or buying quality players to strenghthen the squad. i think it is a perfectly reasonable question for supporters to ask. there does seem to be mixed messages coming from wenger and the board and as fans who pay such high prices we are entitled to know the truth.

  103. Why is it that we love the drama. Some players like money more than being a legend, or having their name in a club’s history book. I’m glad it is being mentioned Flamini was above average player and I think he will remain as such. Clichy is not above average, Cesc is not above average, Kolo is not above average, but they probably have one thing in common which is being mature enough to know it’s not all about money. How much money can you make? How much of it can you take with you to the grave? These players are making enough money at a very young age, that’s the chance Arsenal gives them. A player like Cesc knows he still has a long career and he can make money along the way.

    For me, the most important player to keep is Arsene Wenger himself, any body else can be replaced.

  104. Dan,

    I agree, they need to tell the truth not what we like to hear. If we don’t have the money then we need to shut up and go about our business as usual. If we have the money we need to know how it is used and for what exactly. No argument about that.

  105. Been a bit fed up of late and agree with Passenal seems a waste of time to try and reply to all the negativity around. It was so pleasing to see the following in Clock Enders I attach with pleasure. Hard to believe that if we win our last game and allowing that the Manure and Chelski win theirs we are only four repeat four points adrift with a much better goal difference than Chelski. When taken into account if the games against those two had been draws and not doggy wins for them at their grounds we would have won the EPL. Yet reading this blog we had a disaster of a season. Oh well the attached is up lifting. To all the Doom Mongers take a hike.

    Don’t believe the Hype – It’s great to be a GOONER
    6 May 2008
    Written by: Block19er Posted under Arsenal FC

    According to our friends in the media it’s all over, Wengers master class has ended, the players are all leaving, we have no chance of silverware. Erm, have we heard all that before? Yes, what 12 months ago, it really is silly season again. Flamini’s departure has stirred up a lot of stories, it is not like this move is a shock, same with Hleb, if he goes it’s not out of the blue. Personally I’ve had enough of Hleb now, he does not bring enough to the squad, I really hope we can offload him in the summer. If he does go it seems like either Krancjar or Arfa could be the replacement. To me I would prefer either of those to be in our team next season than Hleb, time to jog on Alex, take your moans elsewhere.

    Theo is looking forward to Vela coming into the squad and so am I. He looks like he’s been the Don in Spain and as back up for one of the aforementioned wing men he could be a real top addition to the squad. One things for sure he’ll score more than Hleb. He’s scored more goals in two years in Spain than Alex has got in three in England. I think Wenger will try and hang on to Gilberto but as always the offer will only be for one more season and if an irresistible offer comes along he will surely take it. With Merida coming back into the squad my worry is that Arsene will not buy a central midfielder. He will have Cesc, Denilson, Diaby, and Merida. Cesc won’t take part in pre-season because of the Euro’s so when the season kicks off it would probably see Denilson and Diaby as the first choice central pair. To me that won’t be good enough. I really hope we can add to the middle of the park now Flamster has gone. One thing is for sure Wenger will look, the worry is that he won’t turn the stone we need him to, Gattuso is a great shout, his experience would make the centre look strong. He’s my kind of player and he loves kickin’ lumps out of ManUre.

    According to The Telegraph the Flamini move will unsettle Arsenal, to me that is rubbish, someone who wasn’t even in the first team 8 months ago, I don’t think so. I could see it putting a question mark over a few of the younger lads come May if Milan with the Champions league in Rome with Flam’ in the team. Other than that he’ll just be another player who used to play for the best team in the World.

    I’d be more unsettled by the Manqs debt. Sure you can say they will win the European/League double but at what cost? Another loss of £58Mil. Taking their total debt to over £760Mil which is incredible. How will the club ever pay that back? Some will say as fans we don’t have to worry? Lets be serious guys, the fans will pay that debt back, their season tickets have increased at a dramatic rate, a guy I know has seen his season ticket price go from £650 to £950 in two seasons at Old Shittford. That’s now £100 more than my seat, if the costs go up then prices will only go up again, some fans will be pushed out. The interest payments they are paying are much higher than the cash they can generate, I’d much prefer Arsene keeps balancing the books. Think Chelski will lose two or three (Lampard, Dogba, ++) first teamers this season, ManUre are soon to lose their Keeper, Neville, Giggs, & Scholes. Who says with all the money in the World their replacements will be as good as us next season? How long will hte bank, yanks, and Russians bank roll them?

    Its important Gooners don’t get sucked into all this media shit, the realism of the situation is we’re 4 points from the title, two dodgy refs decisions from a European final, sure two players are on their way out but two young guns are on their way back in and we’ll sign at least two more first team players this summer. To me it’s great to be a Gooner and there’s no place better to be at the moment.

  106. I think a really first GK is a must we can manage, but a really good GK is what I hope the boss goes for. But at the end of the day the Gaffer will know what to do.

  107. Nice post OldTimer, but I won’t see the light of day before someone hits you with “Oh take off your rose tinted glasses” and “You’re living in dreamy la la land” or maybe “Arsene Worshipper” and who knows what else.

    That’s why I said, I wish I can just blink through the summer months, and not have to go along with this sh*t. I guess it’s true, we are dreaming…it isn’t gonna happen. Even if we win the title next season, someone is going to come out and say: Well, we didn’t score any goals with our arse facing the clock end, so the title doesn’t really count, and it’s all Wenger’s fault for letting Flamini slip through his fingers……..oh dear God.

  108. song for captain
    :D

  109. Gunner4Ever you are so right or I will be told I’m too old and don’t know what I’m talking about. Some people are never satisfied. But we will keep the faith and march on as all true gunner fans do.

  110. OT

    You are too old & don’t know what you are talking about !!!

  111. Thank you Flint, and to think we went to the same match as youngsters. Bloody old farts.

  112. Seriously OT,

    none of us really know what we are talking about because we don’t know the full facts & are never likely to.

    What I do know is that there are plenty on here, who don’t know a good thing when they see it, & would willingly sell the club down the river for some mystical guaranteed gratification.

  113. Flint you are correct, we dont know the facts but I think those with grey power have a better insight having been there and worn the T shirt. could not agree more with some of th attitudes and doubt in the coming years they will support the same team. Oh well once again youth wasted on the young.Bloody hate this walking frame.

  114. Haven’t you got the suped up racing version, OT?


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