Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | April 24, 2008

Money (That’s What I Want) For Transfers And Wages

Arsene has ‘won’ one battle to keep a supposedly unsettled ‘starlet’ (as the media like to call Arsenal players) with the re-iteration of Cesc’s determination to remain at the club,

My future belongs to Arsenal - it is the truth. It is always the same with my situation, always putting my name in another team. I have always said I want to play for Arsenal - it is the best team for me to be at

Now I know that the quote is probably from the weekend but it is a nice, upbeat way to start today.

The manager though fought back yesterday against some of the comments that have been flying around recently. He accepted that mistakes will be pounced upon and he must bear the brunt of the criticism,

You know you will be criticised for that. But you don’t need to accept everything. People say you make mistakes, well that is professional. When people say you don’t know what you are doing, that is a little bit disrespectful

Wenger has had criticism consistently throughout his Arsenal reign – too foreign, too dirty, too naïve amongst others – but it is only right that he is pulled up on mistakes. The trouble is that in doing so, very little of the criticism is constructive and is wide of the mark without a positive solution. Those who demand more Englishmen in the side overlook one major fault in their argument. The ones who can improve the squad are tied into long contracts that are overly expensive to buy out. Names regularly bandied around are Richards, Young and Agbonlahor; all have signed new deals in the recent past so where is the money coming from to buy them?

Arsene moved to lower expectations on that front,

There is money there but not as much as I read in the newspapers, because that is not true. However, with my financial package, the first thing I have to make sure is we keep the players we have at the moment. That is what people forget. The new rules put you under threat to lose your best players because after three years any player can walk out and after two any player over 28 [can leave]. So the rules and the structure of the wages bill is always under threat. It is not as simple as it looks when you read there is so much money available to buy players - that transfer budget also includes the improvement of the wages

The common mistake is to believe that the cash on the balance sheet is the transfer budget or indeed has much to do with it at all. It does not. Some of the money might be used for paying the initial tranche of a fee but the cash is there to fund operations at the club, which is why there is little point in saying that the two are the same or linked. This is not helped when Keith Edelman says that the money is there for him to spend because in the media world one and one is equal to whatever number they so desire.

Arsene is not going to make changes just for the sake of it, nor to pacify elements who believe that the club is their own fantasy football team,

Who we will buy in the summer is not decided yet, but I have players in mind. We have lists which we keep up to date, player number one, two, three or four in the positions were we look for - and you go of course for the number one. I believe at some stage you need to strengthen the team, but changing the team means kick some players out and replacing them. That is not the feeling I have. I feel this team has been absolutely tremendous

That is the crux. If last close season proved anything, the media fantasise about so many players, believe so much they read on the interwebthingy that you simply cannot believe anything you see until it is confirmed by the club. One look at any news aggregator at any point in the day will show at least five new players being linked with the club or their current employers denying any approach has been received.

The games are often as a result of an agent trying to flush out interest for a new deal or to extort money from a different potential employer; it is incredibly frustrating and tiresome to read the different headlines. It would be nice if there was a moratorium on speculation so that only genuine stories were printed but it will never happen so one can only ignore it all.

Of course, the entire conversation surrounding signings would be much clearer were the situation of the current squad known. Flamini is mulling over his reported offers and deciding on his future. Peter Hill-Wood did not seem to believe the player will stay,

We have made what we think is a pretty generous offer and we are waiting to hear whether he will accept or not. You just don’t know nowadays. You think players have a pretty good life but, somehow, someone persuades them the grass might be greener somewhere else. So I don’t know the answer, all I know is we think we have pushed the boat out

The problem the club has with this situation is three-fold. Firstly, the player obviously does not feel secure in his position and it is hard to blame him on that front. He has been here four seasons and only one of them has let him play in his favoured role. There is an element of him cutting off his nose to spite his face because he could have adapted to the left back role post-Paris but reportedly refused to do so. Secondly, the player is supposedly being offered more basic salary.

Lastly, and still money related, if he joins someone on a free, he will get a tasty signing-on fee. Arsenal cannot compete with the latter without making him the highest paid player at the club (or at the very least close to it) and to be honest, even though he has performed admirably this season, is such a financial commitment warranted especially if it means losing out on a player who is needed in another position?

There is the counter argument which rightly states that if he leaves, the transfer pot diminishes by having to buy a replacement for him. However, his salary savings increase the pot to not quite the status quo but certainly level of money available is not as deeper down to the bottom of the pot as it might have otherwise been.

The comparison to the manner of Edu’s departure is true. Both were regulars for the first team in the season as their contracts ran down; neither is linked with a club that is likely to guarantee them success – OK, Bayern have a high chance of it – yet it seems that money is talking louder than anything at the moment. Welcome to the wonderful world of the modern age of football.

‘til Tomorrow.

Responses

completely agree with your article. Money has truely taken over football, Flamini is having the time of his life at Arsenal, admired by every1, playing the most amazing football, offered a very gd wage yet there will always be some1 who will offer more!! Im not sayin players arent as loyal as they use to be, but money talks.

But i think if i was in his shoes you have to put everythin into perspective, if hes makin a choice solely based on money then hes makin the wrong decision. He has to look at his career, and if he leaves hes makin a big big mistake in my eyes, why jump ships when everything is goin so well..???

I still have hope he will stay, but i think he wuld have signed by now if he was thinking about his footballin career ova the money

Your right Yogi - Flamini has no right to hold the club to ransom after 1 good season.

Why should he earn as much as, say,cesc - who has been performing for 3-4 seasons.

I would like him to stay, but he is replaceable, as all players are.

Yogi, do you or any one have an idea of what Cesc is earning or what Flam is demanding for?

Ken

The figures are based on reported figures except for the Juve offer which their ubiquitous director Blanc quoted to the media.

As for Flamini, I recall reading a quote from his Agent which spoke of the amount on offer. I’ll try and dig it out later on today.

YW

I dont think wenger really can do anything about strengthening the back up players. I think he has a hard enough task just getting a strong first 11 with the money he has. the injured first teamers will really have caused him sleepless nights. it meant his squad was down to the bare bones in terms of quality. the only players he could have brought in were sub-standard (relatively speaking) reserve type players, not the sort who can walk straight into big end of season matches against your rivals and win you a game. But thats the only depth we have - weak depth and there is not a thing wenger can do about it with £25m. He needs to make sure his first team is strong again and that means if flam leaves, he needs to replace him, and the same goes for Hleb. we will have to spend £25m just to stand still.

Having said that. wenger is capable of buying very good young players for very little money. I would like to see one world class name brought in and maybe 4 risk players. the type of players who could go either way but are not well known bit have been scouted by wenger eg that African striker. take on 4 risks and 2 of them will turn out good first teamers and 2 would be squad players. It might at least give the squad some extra strength. then I think wenger will be in a position to lose the players who, to me, are clearly not good enough (who I have named on here before).
I think if wenger sticks his neck out and does his best in this way, the fans will forgive him if it does not work. Fans just cannot stand inaction.

i personally dont bleve we have as much as 70million as transfer funds…not now not before…

we r more of an instituion than a football club. true we tap players too like every club…young players…..i mean look at cesc, nordveit now,barazite, jack wilshere…all of them willl be most wanted in the coming seasons…..and they will be treated to hleb’s ice cream i am sure.

but future is bright……i think it will take us another 2-3 years before we compete with united ,chelsea and liverpool on financial terms….footballing terms we r light years ahead….(wat complete shocker of a display yesterday by utd!!!!!)..

flamini has just over 6 days to finalise his future…and the news wont be surprising watever it is….since the expectation also hangs in balance….hleb’s departure wud be a heavy loss.

G4L - i dont think any of us ever believed we had £70M to spend, or that Arsene would spend it even if he did! :-)

gazzap

The crux of the argument is whether you think that his ‘youth’ policy is correct or not. I don’t think that Arsene can be accused of inaction, just not following the path that some want him to by buying signing players rather than using those at his disposal already.

He believes his course of action is correct; whether that is right or not over the long term remains to be seen. However, the current mindset of sections of the support is not to wait and see but to want now. That is a credible viewpoint to have yet some who hold that position undermine their argument with all these fantasy signings that you see in the headlines.

The only way Arsene can convince these people that his way is right is to deliver a trophy next season.

YW

Going off on a tangent - i have just seen that Chelsea are linked with Zlatan Ibrahimovic…

Lets hope they get him - we will definately finish above them next year if they have him upfront on place of Drogba..

Without doubt the most overrated player in world football.

In fairness to Flam, he may not feel he owes us exceptional loyalty, not after having been dropped in favour of a half-fit Cashley in the Champions League final, after working his socks off in a position he hated to get us to the final in the first place. Was Wenger hoping to persuade Cashley to stay? Has he been trying the same tactic with Flam all this season, at the cost of Diarra? And what of giving the captaincy to Gallas without even telling poor Gilberto he’d done so? Now it looks as though Gallas may be replaced as captain by somebody else, which will scarcely make Gallas feel valued. Wenger’s handling of this baffles me. After such treatment, it’s hard to blame players when they put themselves first.

You can’t fault Flam’s performance all season. You also can’t criticise him if that performance was motivated solely by money - he was playing for a wage hike and/or putting himself in the shop window. There’s no guarantee he’ll put in the same effort again once he’s got a new contract. I like him and hope he will stay but only if he’s doing it for the right reasons - because he’s happy here, not because we’re offering higher wages than Juve. It’s essential we don’t give in to blackmail.

I watched last night’s game with mixed feelings. I love Barca and hope they go all the way; I just didn’t want them to play so beautifully Cesc would be pining to be back there. As it was, it worked out rather well. Barca have a reasonable chance, but it was clear to see that we play infinitely better than any club in Europe. People say our best players will leave to win trophies. If that’s true, if trophies are what matters more than anything else, then why would they want to leave for Italy or Spain? Three English clubs in the semis, and if UEFA hadn’t prevented it by rigging the draw, there would have been four. I reckon, if money isn’t the only factor - in which case they’d go to Chelsea - our players know they’re well off where they are.

If we dont spend as much as Man Utd and Chelsea we have no chance of wiining the title next year.
The team ran out of gas because players like Cesc and Ade needed a mid season break,The squad is not strong enough.
We MUST strengthen or face another trophyless season again.
If Flamini goes we dont get a transfer fee a replacement would cost up to £10m
Flamini owes the club nothing.If a club offers him 25k a week more than we are he would be mad to turn it down

I don’t think the majority of fans is against his youth policy.
We believe that this policy can only work if attention is payed to how to balance this out, as these young players need to learn from experience players. So, if we have too many kids and far less experience, which is what the current Arsenal look like in my opinion. This policy can only work if we are winning, but we are not. We’ve lost the fear factor we had four years ago; we square no one at the moment; and it may take a couple years to win all this back, which is not easy.
Money alone is not the solution in my opinion. AW is human; he can make mistakes. I believe he mad some mistakes in changing all the structures of the squad(we have become too lightweight in middle, we square no one as the result). These need to change. We are no longueur PL title winning team, as we can’t dictate the pace and power to any PL team, as we are too lightweight; that’s why we can’t be consistant.
In Europ, we’ve made some progress, but that is not enough. AW needs to strike a balance in the team, so that while we are winning in PL, we use that momentum and carry it in Europ. So, I am not really worry about players leaving, as I believe they are not irreplaceable. We need steal in middle.

Great comment Mia. leaving England for Italy is a clear backward step. why would Flam and Hleb both want to go to Italy? they play every week for Arsenal - they may not get that in Italy. Arsenal play great football - they may not get that in Italy. can money really be at the heart of everything. it appears so. If we matched the Juve offer, would Flam stay? I happen to think he would but I dont like being blackmailed either.
Perhaps an offer for Flam could be 50k if you stay, increasing to 60 or 65k if he stays a year or two. a reward for loyalty would be a good idea.

YW_ I think wengers policy of developing younger players is second to none and a lot of our strength has come from that. But you cant realistically expect every player you bring through from 15/16 years old to be an excellent PL player. some will only be squad players who are clearly a step below the first team level. some of them get sold but Arsene also keeps a lot of them to bolster a squad that he is incapable of bolstering using money - because he does not have money. sure he likes to say its down to loyalty and the hope that if you stick with them one day they’ll improve. The truth is wenger can see some of them making the same mistakes year after year but he is powerless to make sweeping changes. the money has not been there for at least 5 years. he hopes his young players will be good enough but he knows that if we suffer injuries and bad form to the wrong players at the wrong time we have no answers. whatever the papers say, we are not close to Man U and Chelsea yet. maybe we will be in another year but not yet. For now we go with a strong first 11 and cross our fingers for some good luck (which was also in short supply since Feb).

gazzap

the question should not be why they would want to go to Italy its why Arsenal cant keep hold of players when teams from abroad come sniffing about. Why because Arsenal are a selling club not a buying club.

I really do not understand why every season too many Arsenal players are linked with other clubs, you would have thought that a club of Arsenals Stature would ensure retention of their top players.
Clearly there not as big or as desirable to stay with as we all suppose.
I do not think it is entirely about money, there’s something about the club that the players do not feel that they need to stay, there are bigger clubs to play for, but why?
Dennis HillWood has prattled on about making players good financial offers before but I wonder if he really knows what a good offer is?
It’s all about supply & demand - If 50K per week is not enough given the state of the football market, then you have to pay more or suffer the consequences - It’s simple economics

so by that logic if any teams go sniffing about players at Pool, chavs or united their players will suddenly want to play in Italy?
I dont think so. when was the last time any of these teams lost players to Italy or Spain who had just had a very good season with those clubs? Stam and RVN but thats because they had a massive falling out with Fergie. not many others.

the fact that after very good seasons where they mut have felt wanted and played good football, picked every week etc, they want to go and play in Italy. No one is claiming Serie A is strong at the moment so it just seems a really strange state of affairs.

why are we seen as a selling club? reports suggest we are in the top 5 wealthiest clubs in europe. our wages are high as well.
players are other clubs extend their deals when they are having a good time of it, ours leave.

nearly every ex-player has said later on that they regretted leaving Arsenal and that being at arsenal was the best place for them. But new players make the same mistakes again and again. I still cant work out why it is that Arsenal players seem like fair game in world football.

Wengers youth policy that everyone hailed has the potential to backfire dramatically!

As a manager you can only keep faith in a young team and an ideal if the players themselves believe in the manager, club and most importantly the ideal itself. In all of this, one factor in Wengers masterplan may be his undoing. All the young foreigners want to come and play for Wenger because it is like a credential on their CV. They get the opportunity to play in the premier league, get the amazing youth coaching Wenger and his management bring and then they become (in many cases) overhyped, the players can then use this to their advantage and get into one of their childhood dream clubs on an amazing wage. Had Flamini has the same season playing for Fulham, do you think he would be bigging his contract demands so highly? Would Juve want him? We have the possibility of players with no loyalty to the club using this as a stepping stone to where they really want to go.

It is a situation we have to be very wary of, especiallly as we are so weighted to buying foreign players with no loyalty to English clubs. They grow up supporting other teams. Fabs dream has always been to play for Barca,Flam for Juventus. These players have no loyalty to Arsenal FC and we have to be very careful.

This is fine if we are winning. Dont forget when a lot of these youngsters came they were playing alongside the arguably the greatest striker in premiership history, they were coming to a club with the greatest youth manger and one of the greatest players. We still had some heavy weight European greats in our team from the Invincibles era. Now we are a youth team where they are now the superstars but not winning anything. We are not one of the European elite, we are knocking on the door but we are not there yet, these players are becoming so hyped they want to play for the European elite. We are naive to think we can hold on to these players if we do not start winning and winning soon. They are built up so much they believe their career will be a faliure without a European medal, a collection of domestic league medals and domestic cup medals. They are sportsman, they want to win. If they dont believe they can win at Arsenal they will move on, being part of a transition and a revolution is amazing but not if it never ends.

The whole business of moving to the ES was that it would enable AW to compete in the transfer mart.the sum of gbp 25 million can’t buy the legs of top of the range strikers. If indeed the amount is correct then i would only say nobody can blame AW for not buying players in the jan window.
But we had in good faith believed the announcement by the md that the board had always backed AW. Maybe after this it could be subject to certainn conditions.
Whatever it is I feel Arsenal won;t be able to compete in the long run and the ES could be a
poor,sorry white elephant.

if this all really is down to money, which it seems to be ie we can not compete to buy the best players or keep hold of them due to higher wages offered else where (quite frankly from clubs who have less than we do inter / juve), then that brings in to question whether David Dein was right all along about needing wealthier backers. as immoral as it may seem if we want to be the best and we clearly are not anymore and unlikely to be again in the current climate then we need more money full stop.

football is about money now simple as that and we either get with the program or get left behind which is what has happened.

i also believe (and i am not one of the people that harp on about english players) that having so many foriegn players will always create this problem of players wanting to go back home or a different culture. an englishman will see playing for arsenal as pretty well as high as you can get but to foreign players that is not the case and never will be. the micah richards and ashley youngs of the world for example are arsenal fans, we are their dream club, that is who i want playing for arsenal not a player who spends years dreaming of going to juve or barca etc.

to me to lose both flam and helb would be a disaster from the point of view of the model we have in place ie bringing in unknown foriegn players make them big and then they sod off as soon as possible. there is no continuity and it sends out all the wrong messages as arsenal as a feeder club to the bigger clubs of europe. whatever fabregas says if we lose them both he surely will be very very unhappy about it.

equally with limited funds we can not get closer to the big boys if we lose our best players let alone bringing in new players to bridge the gap.

all very frustrating.

Arsene has more posers to face than the crowds at OT and The Bridge combined, boy has he got some thinking and doing to do this summer? I reckon he has more ‘duckin n’ divin’ to do than my namesake!

Consider all the problems he has to deal with (let alone all the new rules which shaft his every move) and the fact that he has NOT got a great big pot of money .. .. .. ..

It’s probable that Flamini, Hleb, Gilberto and Lehman are all wanting off in the summer.

Up front, RvP and Tomas seem so bloody prone to injury that it’s a joke.

A potential Arsenal ‘Great’, Eduardo is out for a long, long while yet with no guarantee he will ever be back as fit (physically or mentally).

Bendtner seems to be a loner, excommunicated from the rest of the squad (his own doing, maybe? probably!).

Young Carlos Vela is coming in but will he settle? How good can he be in the Premier League? He’s young too, as well as a South American a long way from home.

At the back we have had great problems for much of the season, especially in 2008. Kolo came back from the ANC a different player (fairly dodgy, as he was during the ANC).

If AW takes the captaincy from Gallas how will Billy Boy take it? Not very well, that’s for sure (get the Kleenex out!) BUT he can’t stay on as skipper after the waterworks etc., at Birmingham.

Can Kolo take the armband?

Would AW consider big Phil Senderos (or is it Ponderous?), he has in the past - but heh, Big Phil is not really good enough for the Club let alone the first 11 even after a good amount of first team action, all be it in and out of the side, he has shown that he is mentally fragile, even though he is a good bloke.

What of Johan Djourou? He also has become a sick note this season and how good is he long term?

Will Hoyte ever be more than a ’stand in’? No.

Almunia has done so bloody well considering his previous lack (of top level) experience and young ‘Woocash’ Fabianski is behind him but all great/winning teams should have a a great keeper or even a legend in goal e.g. Seaman, Scmeichel, Ollie Khan, The Invincibles Lehman, Cloughie’s Shilton, Ramsey’s Banks, Petr Cech (OK,OK! I know Chelsea ain’t a great team, but you know what I mean).

No one is really sure about Diaby, are they?

Then there is our old favourite Eboue, what do we do with him? Answers on a postcard please!

Bacary Sagna, Gael Clichy, Cesc, Emanuel Adebayor, Theo (you may just have come of age dear boy!). All class acts in their own ways, who will all improve BUT HEH FELLAS, you need AW to sort out the above mess and also bring in a little bit of age/experience to help you guys physically and mentally next season because as great as he is AW is not gonna sort it all out this summer!

Denilson, Merida, Bazarite, Nordtveit and Wilshere are waiting in the wings but they are kids now and will be for between 1 to 4 years yet.

I know I have probably forgotten someone but heh, shit happens!

Especially to The Arsenal this year!

We HAVE been unlucky with injuries AND decisions, it can ONLY get better and we are still in the top 3. Gunners for ever!

PS. Apart from some obvious names like Ben Arfa, Benzema, Villa etc., which probably WON’T happen, look out for Arsene making a move for Yoann Gourcuff @ AC Milan, he’s young (22 this summer), he’s French (from Brittany, so he used to being a bit chilly), he’s quick, a compact and talented right-sided forward and I believe he is out of favour/contract/soon?

He is a very good player. His nickname is ‘Petit Zizou’, and for those of you can’t speak fluent French like me, thats French for ‘Little Zidane’.

Cocky twat, aint I?

Oh, and by the way Peter, The Emirates is gonna be there for 100 years plus mate.

also just seen wengers comments about possibly resting euro 2008 players!!!! what the hell, they are our players we want to finish 2nd and don’t give a toss about euro 2008, why wouldn’t we be playing our best players, defies belief.

Peter could you seriously see us competing in the future from Highbury!

Not without a Usmanov incharge and the bulk of people unable to see the team.

I worry about the future as other teams will invest heavily e.g. Spurs as they see the champions league as the golden ticket Man Utd and Chelsea remain too well funded.

While it was easy to get carried away with our early season form it is equally easy to get carried away with our slump in fortunes.

Strength of squads is an illusion, Man Utd have played Wes Brown at right back this season and have avoided many key injuries.

Anelka has hardly earn’t his £15m transfer fee yet.

The fact that we have outplayed all the premiership teams indicates the squad aren’t to far behind the pace.

Our 2nd string convincingly beat Newcastle, Sheffield Utd, Blackburn and Burnley. We didn’t suffer home cup defeats to Coventry or Barnsley.

What I do want the club to do is show why our commercial income lags behind our competitors it places too much emphasis on gate receipts and hence we will continue to have the highest ticket prices in world football.

|Good Article as per suual YW.

And Del Boy, you put things quite eloquently… well said to you too.

Money is really the bottom line for a number of footballers nowadays. I am beginnning to suspect that may be the case with Flamini cos if its not money, then O cant see how long ti takes to decide whether you want to accept an offer on the table or not.

I rate Flamini and I would rather he stayed than went away, but not sure we should burst the wage structure cos of him else others will have to be reviewed to balance it out.

I am sure in the next few years, there will be e a substantial increase when a lot more of the debts are paid up but until then, i think the players should respect what is in place or else move on.

Recent new deals to a few other players in other clubs who obviously earn more that the Arsenal players may explain what is making them react but they should just respect where they are while they are there.

I’m directing this comment to don the gooner and Bob Newton, who said “It’s all about supply & demand - If 50K per week is not enough given the state of the football market, then you have to pay more or suffer the consequences - It’s simple economics”

Yes, that’s right, it’s simple economics.

Which means if YOU DON’T HAVE THE MONEY, YOU CAN’T SPEND IT!

don the gooner says we should spend just as much money as Manu and Chelsea, ffs! What the hell planet are you ON?!?!

HOW CAN WENGER SPEND MONEY HE DOESN’T HAVE?!

This is the same poster who said “fuck the wage structure.” Oh gee, just throw out every basic financial rule for one player. Why don’t you go and manage the club’s finances then, since you’re such a financial genius who doesn’t have to worry about the consequences of your financial decisions? Then Arsenal would truly go down. I’m certainly glad you’re not running the club. Yet another plastic fan who has absolutely no clue what it means to run a football club.

I love these so-called gooners who sit behind their PC screens and blithely tell the manager to spend zillions of pounds THAT HE DOESN’T HAVE!!!

Arsenal News Review just published a report from Nigel Phillips of the Arsenal Supporter’s Trust. It’s a basic summary of the club’s financial situation.

Two telling quotes:

“Wenger’s ability to continually generate profits from his transfer dealings and keep the Club at the very top level (10 consecutive seasons in the Champions League) is amazing.”

“Of the near £70m of cash balances, £25m is unavailable as it is used to partially secure future repayments of the debt facilities and one also assumes some is set aside to meet the probable £20m of additional transfer fees payable on existing squad members. This does however leave maybe £25m for the squad building (transfer plus wages) that appears all too necessary to sustain a season long challenge for honours on several fronts.”

So that’s it — got it, folks? £25 mil!

All gooners raving and ranting about who Wenger should buy and sell should read the article in its entirety:

http://www.arsenalnewsreview.co.uk/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=957&cntnt01origid=30&cntnt01returnid=42 .

Yes, I know gooners don’t trust Myles Palmer but this piece wasn’t written by Palmer.

I know it’s cold comfort but it really is quite extraordinary that we have a manager who has kept us consistently in the top 4 and in the CL for so long with such financial constraints.

Now, if your argument is that Dein was right and we need a sugar daddy, that’s another issue–at least it’s an argument that recognizes that Wenger is limited in what he can do even if he wanted to spend £25 mil on the likes of Villa et al. (who of course would automatically fit in and bring us trophies according to all the fan experts).

However, as we all know, the world financial situation is teetering at the moment. Do we really want to imitate Manu’s and Chelsea’s business models?

Oh–and to those who saw last night’s CL semi: did you see how the superior, invincible, billion-dollar Manchester United looked absolute CRAP? Have you seen all the insults and criticisms thrown at Ferguson by Manu fans on all the blogs and reader comment sections in the papers?

A friend from Brazil who watches the PL fairly regularly (but supports no PL club) said it well: The two big teams who best exposed the “invincible” ManU’s weaknesses this season, for all the world to see, were Arsenal and Barca.

What let Arsenal and Barca down was the lack of clinical finishing. Man United were very lucky to win against us at OT in the league and to draw last night. We stopped them from scoring in open play, we marginalized Cronaldo just as Barca did.

MU are not as imperious as the hype leads everyone to believe, nor are we that far away from improving enuf to beat them.

Let the big players rest for the Euros. It’s a good PR move on Wenger’s part, a way of thanking them for their hard work and showing them consideration. Believe me, he wouldn’t do it if he wasn’t wanting to try out some of the kids anyway! I’m quite excited at the prospect of seeing, say, Barazite and Nordtveit - almost like a preseason.

Gazzap, I think Hleb might want to move for playerly reasons - or playeristical, as Wenger would say! He’s sick of being kicked, sick perhaps of getting stick from the fans. In Italy he could shine, develop his skills and be valued as the true star that he is. His game is much more suited to the way they play there. I hope he doesn’t, but it’s a respect-worthy reason for going. While the top end of the league is as skilful as any, the bottom end is totally troll-like: kick, kick, break leg: how else can they pick up a point? Flam’s case is quite different. He’s not moving so as to develop his skills and improve as a player; quite the reverse: it’s to follow in the footsteps of Edu, Petit, Anelka, Henry, Wiltord, Vieira…

You ask why so many of our star players are seduced by the idea of moving to a big club in Europe. There are two halves to the answer, I think. (1.) we don’t buy our stars ready-made, we discover and create them out of nothing, and that means the big clubs see us as resource to be pillaged - a kind of oil field or tract of virgin forest to be plundered. (2.) From the players’ perspective we are not a big club, a glamour club, because we haven’t won the only trophy that counts - Europe. We’ve only got in spitting distance of it once, which puts us below PSV and Villa, for God’s sake, not to mention Real, who’ve won six, I think, and Liverpool’s five. League titles and FA Cups are OK but they are not where the prestige is. If we want to keep our young stars, as opposed to merely attract them, teach them beautiful football and bring them to the notice of Juve, Inter, Barca, Real and Milan, then we have show ourselves to be the equal of those clubs.

I think we’re getting there. The finances are in place, which is more than can be said for Liverpool’s. I read recently that Hicks can afford to buy the site for a stadium but he hasn’t the cash to actually build one. Worse, they borrowed the money for Torres from the bank at 9 percent interest, and the bank are demanding it back! No, financially we’re in reasonable shape. We just have to strengthen the squad. Wenger has learnt this at last, I believe. He’s a slow learner but this time he really does seem to be intending to bring in at least two quality players. Me, I hope Modric is one.

why is my comment “awaiting moderation” for so damned long???

NYMarcus

>why is my comment “awaiting moderation” for so damned long???

Because you triggered the trapdoor and I’ve just come back from a three hour lunch in a very nice pub… 8)

YW

“Because I’ve just come back from a three hour lunch in a very nice pub”

LOL!! :-D Lucky you, I’m envious! I do miss the atmosphere of an English pub!!

mia, totally disagree about the euro’s players, it isn’t a gift to them as firstly i am sure they want to play and secondly they get paid obscene money to play football!!!!! the euros don’t start until june for gods sake. we want to win as many games as possible and could still finish 2nd and avoid playing in the qualifiers which is huge.

totally ridiculous. he won’t be playing bazarite and nordviet but senderos, denilson and traore.

the reason for players leaving is the money, prestige and that they are foriegn and have no real ties to england and arsenal.

to think due to flam this year we lost diarra and screwed up gilberto, what a bloody waste and total crap mangement, why do we never learn, players who do not commit should not be playing first team football.

even if it is 25m, then we should sell some players to increase the pot, bendtner, diaby, eboue, hotye and gilberto will probably net another 15m to 20m and then you have 40m to spend.

fair enuf, I agree dan with your last post. that’s what I’m hoping to see.

problem is unfortunately 40m will not go far if they have to replace helb and flamini as well as bring in what is required already.

Exactly dan

So give the Flamster 70k week. Because we wont get a replacement for less. Why does no-one ever mention the £5.2m we got for Diarra?Plus the £20m from the Cl and £30m from Sky.That is without all the millions from gate reciepts and merchandise

To quote Gordon Gekko….It’s all about bucks pal, the rest it just conversation. Flamini will leave for a big salary increase and a BIG signing bonus. As for Wenger, I for one think he is being cagey and not tipping his hand re: transfers. I think he’ll splash out more than we think this summer, and both Villa and Modric or Ben Arfa coming would not surprise me. Wishful thinking? Maybe.

LA cloud cuckoo land is what i would call that!!!! not in a million years.

YW

Yogi, have you had a quick look at the maths regarding Flam ?
ie. £10K/week higher wage equals £500K or €625K a year…over say 5 years equals £2.5m total vs. transfer cost for equivalent quality - premiership ready, and young - player ? (assuming this guy is cheaper in weekly wages terms… ;)
I know this is a very very simplified view of reality however it strikes me that haggling over £5K/week would not be a very rationale attitude for the Club…

to me in this case where we are short of cash and need to keep our best players there must be some creative way of paying the guy, through sign on or loyalty bonus or whatever you want to call it bonus. it seems absurd to let him go. unfortunately he has us by the balls and
although he is entitled to get what he can, he has certainly gone way down in my estimation. which doesn’t really matter as he will never play for us again!!!

I think role models are important. Arsenal have shown a history of our best players being tapped up by big clubs and then eventually they leave. even the manager runs down his contract ums and ahs before he signs up again.

compare that with the other big clubs, they all have a big English contingent. English players dont go abroad and they very rarely move to another big club once they are in one of the big 4. I think the feeling that there is something better elsewhere does not breed among players when there is a strong and steady spine.
foreign players are nearly all journeymen. even our faves Vieira and Henry failed to nip rumours in the bud- OK they stayed for many years in the end but the seeds of doubt were still planted and they grew.

then you come on to practical reason like players not being tied to contracts early enough. IMO once players reach 2.5 years to go on a contract I would like to see them extended to 5 years again. yes that means contract negotiations every 2-3 years but thats the way it must be with Websters law these days.
Even if it does not stop players wanting to leave, if you get £13m for Flam it does soften the blow considerably.

I also agree that winning things helps. no one left us when we won a double or went a season unbeaten.

finally I think Arsenal players are more attractive to other teams. as someone said earlier imagine Flam had been at Fulham. I would take that further and say imagine he’d been even at chelsea, man u or Liverpool. for some reason players found, developed and coached by wenger are regarded as the best in the world. people respect wenger immensely. they know his scouting is top notch and they know Arsenal is still not a club with huge financial clout - maybe one day but not yet. we are seen as the place to go for the best young 21-24 year old players by big clubs who need to plug a few holes.
We do all the hard work, suffer 2 seasons of mediocrity and then lose them for free when they are brilliant after they have been in the shop window.

there is no doubt the lack of success also plays a part.

Gazzap, Exactly!!

Unless we start winning all we are is a feeder for the European Elite, as I posted earlier….

In all of this, one factor in Wengers masterplan may be his undoing. All the young foreigners want to come and play for Wenger because it is like a credential on their CV. They get the opportunity to play in the premier league, get the amazing youth coaching Wenger and his management bring and then they become (in many cases) overhyped, the players can then use this to their advantage and get into one of their childhood dream clubs on an amazing wage. Had Flamini has the same season playing for Fulham, do you think he would be bigging his contract demands so highly? Would Juve want him? We have the possibility of players with no loyalty to the club using this as a stepping stone to where they really want to go.

Mia:

“From the players’ perspective we are not a big club, a glamour club, because we haven’t won the only trophy that counts - Europe. ”

Sorry, I can’t buy this. It certainly doesn’t stop players from going to Chelsea, does it?

don the gooner, if you took the time to read the article I linked to, it says very clearly that Arsenal’s profits from merchandise are very low compared to other clubs. The club is like Liverpool, it’s one area both clubs have not generated enuf income from.

Oh yeah, give Flamini 70k, let him have more than senior players who’ve been at the club longer. Those senior players will of course just accept that and not demand more money for themselves. Dip into Arsene’s funds to buy new players, why not?

The think that irks me about Flamini’s attitude is that he can’t point to any trophies he helped us win this season. If we had won a trophy, then he’d have something more credible to use in his wage demands.

people go to chelsea for one reason and that is money.

‘even our faves Vieira and Henry failed to nip rumours in the bud- OK they stayed for many years in the end but the seeds of doubt were still planted and they grew.’

But then again, promising to stay for life is not realistic because things change. Ask TH14. I’m sure he meant it when he said it, but then he had all those injury problems, which gave him time to think and begin to worry that time was running out for him plus he had his personal problems which also contributed to him wanting to leave London in order to get away from them.

In the end, actions speak louder than words. As long as the players give their all while they are here, that is all that we can expect.

Thanks Team Spirit. You know it makes sense!

If you get 4 years from imports these days you`ve done pretty well.

Our best , who all stayed longer, (DB10, PV4, TH14, RP7) all had things to prove when they joined us & we were winning things throughout their stay.

Great post from Del Boy earlier - AW really has got a lot of questions to answer this summer as there are question marks against so many of the squad for different reasons.

Are Hoyte, Senderos, Djourou, Bendtner & Eboue good enough. Should Gallas keep the captaincy. Will Gilberto be allowed to go. Can he keep Hleb & Flamini. Does he need cover for injuries to RVP, Rosicky (inevitable) & Eduardo

If he`s got half a brain Flam should take the offer on the table now - I`m certain he`ll regret it if he doesn`t. His all action style isn`t the norm in Italy.

I think saying that Arsenal is a selling club is missing the point. Bergkamp never left Arsenal did he n he was no mug player and could easily have graced a team the likes of Barcelona at a time when Overmars and Petit ran over there.He obviously believed in Arsenals potential for greatness.

Just because we are 5th Richest club in Europe it doesn’t automatically give us bragging rights and top billing for players to want to sign for us! I agree wuth you gazzap about great players/role models attracting other players and lack of succes being a factor as you said dan for players wanting to leave. But when it comes to it it was down to personal choices and players personal dreams when Players left.Though for a few like Pires and Cambell it was due to Wengers reluctance to give longer contracts to players over 30. Cole Anelka,TH14, Viera that had nothing to do with money.

I can see how for several years it has been difficult to distract players from the glittering allure of clubs with illustrious historys like Barca, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Juve, Bayern, Inter who have produced great teams with great success’s for many decades ..At Barca alone you have had Koeman, Cruyff, Ronaldo,Maradonna, Romario, Rivaldo,Ronaldinho….who wouldnt want to play for them. Could we blame anyone for wanting to illuminate the same stadium where all these football gods have played. And again there are just some clubs (ie Chelsea) where sensible players wouldnt go no matter how much money they offered for the same reasons. And they r not falling over themselves to join Liverpool, Chelsea n Man U for their strength in English Players are they.

Only recently English clubs have been flexing their muscles on this stage in the last few years. Arsenal are the young upstarts and they have their chance to create their own illustrious histories which will make other players want to worship at the temple of football at the Emirates stadium.Which will start with the winning of our first silverware with the style that we all love. I was reminded of this when I saw Barca passing Man U of the pitch and wished it had been us. We would have given them a run for their money!We will be back even stronger next season.

if we only get 4 years from imports then it is time to change the philosophy of bringing in young imports as it takes a while for them to get used to the game and develop and then they move!!!! how can that be good for us. it costs loads to replace them, means it is harder to win anything as we are always in transition and we lose continuity.

all the while every summer the club goes through continual speculation over their best players which aslo has a negative impact on the remaining squad players.

Dan you’re prob right but I just have a feeling about it. Villa practically begged for an offer, what’s Arsene going to do, say, “yes, I’m interested?” Would not be very good negotiating at all. He’ll be in the Prem next season with someone, take that to the bank. Hope it’s us. We’ll see.

wenger has said already that he is not going to buy a forward. also if that was somehow to change by selling bendtner for example, he is not going to spend 20m on one player. simply not going to happen.

Your logic trumps my feeling no doubt. But I just don’t see how Wenger can assume the health of RvP, which is the only justification for for not getting another striker. Eduardo won’t be ready for a long time, and, let’s be honest, who knows if ever. Villa would be perfect. But yes, it’s a long shot. Well, let me keep hitting the crack pipe of hope…

i agree with everything you say, but don’t think wenger sees it that way. even if he was get a foward i think villa is too much like eduardo and wouldn’t be the sort of striker he would get. we weed need a bigger pacey forward.

we are after a striker from algeria who plays in portugal(guimares),he is 24 would cost 5m euros. ps:his name is ghilas

Arsene is missing the business side of buying English. English players sell shirts.

Chelsea, Pool and Manu according Deloite Touche sell more shirts than Arsenal; why?

Most Chelsea’s shirt sales come from Lampard, Terry and Joe Cole.

Pool also make a lot of shirt embossed with names of Carragher and Gerrard.

English players sell more shirts than their foreign counterparts.

The only player who does well in shirt sales is Cesc and TH14 previously.

Buying good English players like barry, Richards or Young will send our shirt sales to the roof and they always repay the cost invested in them.

Richards will sell more shirts than Gallas, Toure and Senderos together if successful so Arsene shouldn’t shy away from the cost.

The way it`s going at Valencia I`m not surprised Villa wants away but he`s an established international who would cost around £20M & I just can`t see Wenger buying him at that price. Maybe if he`d had a couple of cr*p seasons & was 5M he might.

I agree with Dan about summer speculation & the negativity it brings, but it goes with the territory when you have talented players who have their own reasons to leave.

Three or four quality signings would make us look like a buying club , not a selling club & let`s face it , it`s great to see new signings in August. So long as they`re decent that is !

Howard,

The only way Ashley Young would sell shirts at Arsenal is if he worked in `The Armoury`

Yes, of course they go to Chelsea for the money, especially in the case of Abramovich’s most expensive acquisitions, those fading stars of yesteryear, Ballack, Sheva and co, shortly to be followed by Ronaldinho no doubt.

My point about the big, glamour clubs of Europe is that these are the clubs a young player growing up outside England would have dreamt of joining, i.e. the ones that were successful in Europe twenty or thirty years ago, the ones he would have learnt about from his dad. History is seductive - not as seductive as money perhaps but it does seem to count for a bit.

If, on the other hand, that same player were to ask himself which club was likely to be most successful in the near future, I’d guess he’d go for an English one, if only because that’s where the money is now; and if were to choose on the basis of skill and potential, the chances are he’d say us. As van Persie put it recently, We have won a trophy this season: it’s called respect. The way we played has won admiration across Europe.

Very true. However, every year that passes with us bottling it in Europe, the harder it becomes for us to look like a credible force. It’s time to start winning, or at least regularly reaching the final, if we’re to compete psychologically with the romance of the clubs who have their past glories to wave in our face. I can see why we failed this year and last - our squad is too thin - but why the Invincibles failed so consistently in Europe is one of life’s mysteries.

“English players sell shirts”

Yeah, because nobody in England wants to buy shirts with the names of C. Ronaldo, Vidic, Tevez, Mascerano, Fabregas, Henry, Torres or Drogba. Who’d want to have those names on your back?

So much more cool to wear world class names like Agbonlahor, Young, Bent, Doyle, Sidwell.

Howard, you’ve posted some bizarre arguments before, but this one has got to be the weirdest.

Man United have not come close to the CL since 1999, that hasn’t stopped players wanting to come play for them. This is the first season for a long time they’ve come this close.

Mia, your argument is not necessarily irrelevant but it’s very limited in its scope. It’s not that important when considering the entirety of a player’s decisions.

Real Madrid haven’t won the CL since 2002, that doesn’t stop them from getting world class players wanting to play for them.

And when was the last time Juve won the CL?

What players want is CL football, which we have consistently been a part of for 10 years.

Dan

What has Nik done? Everybody sell Bendtner.Why? Bendtner has scored more goals in his first season than Ade did, right?

Nik saved us against Spurs, Villa and scored in the CL matches yet he’s had only few starts.

Ade played the whole season in 2006/7 season and scored only 12 goals. Compare his goals ratio against Ade’s first and second seasons and see whose is better.

This is a player who’s only 19 and has done well in his first season even though has had few chances.

I know a player who’s been here since 18 and now 23 and cost us so many games including FA, CL, Carling Cup and league games but nobody is pushing for his sale even though he gets worse and worse every season.

the intersteing thing about the PV and TH analogies are that flam and helb are not the world class players that PV and TH were. flam is good player with one good year behind him and barely in the french squad certainly not the 1st team and helb for all his wonderful skill is not one of the worlds best by any stretch of the imagination. if we are struggling to keep players of their calibre it really is a problem.

as for the shirt argument, i agree it is a strange one. i may be wrong but i think bar a few players i don’t think fans really love the current players as they did in the past. i think fans are disillusioned by them as shown by the crap with helb / flam at the moment. as much as we hate lampard, terry, rooney, ronaldo, gerrard carragher they are all legends of their clubs and sadly we no longer have any of them left at arsenal. the days of players like DB, PV, TH RP etc are long gone.

i am not saying bendtner has done anything wrong or should be sold in fact. i use his name as he is a peripheral player with a good sale value. as long as ade is there bendtner will not get a regular full first team place. he has scored some crucial goals and overall done well this year but if we want an experianced top quality forward someone has to go, he is not going to have ade, rvp, eds, walcott bentdner and another.

as i said before i don’t think he is going to sell him as he said already that he doesn’t intend to buy a forwrad.

Paulie

You can say what you want but if Young comes over and succeeds, he’ll sell more shirts than Hleb, Flamini at their peak. Even Spurs are doing very well on the merchandise side of business.

Our earnings are poor in merchandise because the team is foreign without any English player at the top; so we can’t sell much shirts. It’s true, you can check.

Let’s Theo hit it next year and see the shirts he can sell, it will amaze you to see the figures.

Mia, well said.
I hope some of ‘AW knows’ read what you are talking about.

Howard, among the top 4 clubs in England it is LIVERPOOL that profits the least from merchandise. We do not do as well as Chelsea and Manu but Liverpool are behind us. Those are the basic facts. That’s one of the reasons raised by Tom Hicks as to why he wants to fire Parry.

Howard,

If Theo `hits it` next year (& I really hope he does) no doubt his shirt will sell very well but my point is about quality of player not their passport.

I`m not against English players at Arsenal - they just have to be the right ones & the best & at the moment they`re all playing for Liverpool, Manu U & Chelsea

NYmarcus/Paulie

Why are we not doing well in the merchandise side? What is wrong with having a director of marketing soley to promote the Arsenal franchise?

Chelsea is doing well because of trophies won in recent times. English players do well selling shirts so its not too bad buying good English players who can succeed at Arsenal. Once we start winning trophies our revenue base will improve.

We already have a lot of foreign players so why don’t we bring in some English players into the team now. There are quality ones in the positions that we’re seeking. Young can solve our wing problem and is stronger than Rosicky and equally good. So why not sell Rosicky who’s always on the treatment table and buy Young. Richards can fix our centre back problem too and if successful will sell loads of shirts to pay back the investment. Both Young and Richards are die hard Arsenal fans.

I know I’m the only fan who seems to be promoting English players to the annoyance of most of you but its for Arsenal’s own interest.

1. We’ve not won anything since the whole Arsenal XI became foreign.

2. Its a fact as statistics show that foreign players are more likely to move than local players. Example, rarely do players in the top four move if English. Once an English player gets into a top four team, they become satisfied. Richards dream of playing for Arsenal in a CL game. He said that sometime ago. So let’s get him.

3. English players in an English club form the glue that binds an English club together; we’ve lacked that for the past 3/4 years. Ashley Cole complained he lacked relationship in the dressing room as he found himself alone most times and rarely communicated.

4. Officials and pundits have been biased against us both on and off the pitch. They don’t see anything good with Arsenal. We’ve been taking this lightly but we shouldn’t because poor public image is bad for business anywhere.

5. Even though English players are expensive; if successful, they pay for themselves as we can make a lot of money through merchandise.

We should do it now.

English players sell shirts: right, then we’d better buy Beckham.

I thought the market for shirts was mainly outside England anyway - Africa insofar as they can afford them, but mainly in the US and Far East? I heard a Liverpool fan grumbling recently that he’d been on holiday in Thailand and seen only one shop: not ManU’s and certainly not Liverpool’s, but ours - and it was massive and new! Sounds like we’re not doing too badly with our foreigners’ names on the back.

NYmarcus, I accept that my argument is limited and it hardly applies so long as the players we buy are young and unknown. Kids like Merida and Barazite, say, are delighted to come to us the better to develop their skills under Wenger’s tuition, catch the eye, and then - as people have been complaining - move on to better things somewhere smarter! Where I think it may have more purchase, however, is when we’re trying to sign a more expensive established player - an Aguero, a Modric, for instance. Given a choice between us and a ‘big glamour club’, all things being equal which do you reckon they’d choose? Eduardo said his dream was to go to Barca or Inter (fortunately they didn’t come in for him); we lost Pato to Milan, not for reasons of money - he turned down Chelsea as well - but probably for the culture, the climate and, yes, because their history gives them more kudos than us. That’s why we need to start acquiring some kudos ourselves. No one can expect to win the Champions League every year, but Liverpool, with a weaker team than we have, though with better more focused tactics, have been consistently reaching the final. If we’re not to turn into a Lyon - very pretty football, domestic league winners, but ineffective in Europe and therefore not much of a lure for the stars - we need to take a leaf out of Liverpool’s book and give more priority to winning in Europe.

Diaby is out for the rest of the season now. We have really upset the gods this season. With Hleb banned as well there will need to be some young blood tried.

no it’s called more eboue!!!!

Strange how Eboue keeps injury free. He needs to feed the other players on what he eats. On buying players (CB) with experience I wonder if Thuram would be an idea until the younger players come through.

“every year that passes with us bottling it in Europe, the harder it becomes for us to look like a credible force” This is really harsh, I wouldn’t say that our loss to Luckypool was the result of ‘bottling’ it.

Arsene is building an Arsenal brand. The way we have played this season and the win in the San Siro is certainly raising our profile. Those players who are less concerned about money (and there are a few) and more about the quality of the game will continue to be attracted to us. As the money starts to flow and the trophies start to follow, we will be able to buy and pay those players. But we are not there yet. We just need to be patient for a little longer.

The choice;
some of you c***s in charge or Wenger? Don’t be offended but I’ll stick with Arsene.
Anyone want to leave? Off you go; in the footsteps of Vieira, Henry, Ljungeberg. Petit, Overmars. Bye Bye

Howard
It’s been said before, but you seem a bit slow, so I’ll repeat it; are England going to the Euros? Thought not. Get your hat and coat and you can follow Flamini and Hleb out the door

Many of the worlds top players earn fortunes outside football (TV ads, sponsership, etc.) therefore money is no object but winning the top trophies (CL, WC and EC, ACN and Copa) are more important. In that context the players below this level want top pay packets even if they are not the very top players.

I think we all forgetting how much did we pay for Flamini? Nothing! So if he goes for nothing, I don’t care so much about it. What I care about is him throwing a tantrum last year because he didn’t play in his position, and then we he plays there and does well, he wants to leave. You got your chance, and a good contract so hold on to it. Many players re-negotiate their contracts after they sign them because they proved themselves to deserve more. I say if he wants to go, let him go. Does any one hear about Reyes any more?

How much did we pay for Toure? Nothing!
How much did we pay for Eboue? Couple of millions! Still nothing in these days.
How much did we pay for Clichy? Does any one even know?
How much did we pay in RVP? 3 millions? Still nothing.
How much did we pay for Fabregas? Nothing.
How much did we pay for Gallas? Nothing, plus we got 5 millions in exchange for a scumbag.

and so on and on and on…….Let the manager do his thing, he did it over and over again with one thing in his mind….”the best interest of the club” no one else including himself.

We are a club on the rise, but also on a very limited budget. We can all talk about the money we are making from the new stadium, but in reality the effect of that money will not show until at least the end of next season. We can compete now with the likes of Man Ure and Chelski by borrowing money and getting in debt, is that really what we want? We do not have the unlimited financial backing of “Money’cow’vitch” for Chelski or the crazy will to be in 800 million debt of Man Ure.

Yet we are still in the top four, and were giving them the run for their money until the last few games when we faltered, and only due to injuries nothing else. I truly believe if Eduardo didn’t get injured, we would be still competing for the title…but that’s just me….(G4E)

With all the “English players sell more shirts” stuff, I am curious to find out how many shirts the top seller sells in a season. After that I would like to determine the profit margin for a shirt after all the crap with regards to manufacturing, warehousing, etc. Then I would hope that a player sells several million shirts to offset his 20+ million purchase, several millions sign on bonus, attrocious weekly wages, etc.

People buy shirts because they like their clubs and the OPTION of adding a player’s name is extra. I have been waiting for our away kits for both myself and my son for months on arsenal shoping site. The reason we don’t sell as many shirts is WE DON”T HAVE THEM IN STOCK MOST OF THE TIMES. and it is not because we lack english players. try finding some shirts on the site and see what you can find.

Micah Richards is English, but NOT better than Senderos, Remember Micah did nothing to stop a 6 goal shellacking in the hands of chelsea, a priveledge senderos has not experienced. Neither is Young better than Rosick. The comparison itself is a joke. I think the poster would like us to perform like Villa and all will be well. why not, we will be selling some shirts.

We have outplayed every team in the epl and in Europe, in their own patches, with the exception of M’borough and Seville. Granted we haven’t won all of those games, but that should tell you our “mediocre” players are BETTER than any team in the EPL. Man U and Chelsea included. Failure to score adequate number of goals is the only decider this season. And we have done it without being able to field our first 11 for the entire season. Be realistic people. Our current squad does not need strengthening, just add numbers, or avoid injuries and we will win the EPL, and the CL. If the “cream of the epl/world football” ManU, Chelsea and Liverpool can not outplay us in their own homes, which is a one-to-one comparison,and without our first 11, how in the world would they be better than us???????????

jamie

Eboue, Gallas, Djourou, Senderos, Denilson, Diaby, Song and some others are all top, top players.

They have no match in any English club, right? And so we win trophies every season, right? We’re always doing better than the other top 4 with some English lads right?

We’ve been beating Pool, Manu and Chelsea every season because our foreign players are skillful and of higher breed and are no match when they meet our competitors with some English players.

Congrats with our smart policy that has made us win trophies year on year and brought in loads of money from the business perspective as well.

TayGoon

Senderos is better than Richards? Let Arsene play him every match and I can assure you that, he’ll score 10/15 og at the end of the season, not counting the all-too-well-known mistakes.

Senderos as the substantive CB? Don’t make me laugh. We’ll be struggling at the mid table level and forget champions league.

Oh! Rosicky is so injury prone and so unfit that he’s one of the reason why we’re losing money. Paying wages for no service.

In fact, I’ll soon post the number of matches he’s played since he joined Arsenal as against total matches and determine the cost per match.

I rate Young better than him. Rosicky may have a better ball control than Young but Young is faster, stronger and better shooter. Young can play at both wings but Rosicky is not a winger.

Its even difficult to assess Rosicky because he can’t play 5 games in a row without injury. That’s the player Arsene has forced on us and leaking money with no guaranteed service.

Young is a born Arsenal fan and will not be clamouring for a transfer to Europe when on top.

If successful, Young will sell shirts and bring in real money.

Its high time to say the foreign policy since 2004 has failed. Let’s just admit it for once.

In any case, what good team in Europe will play foreign players week in week out without their countrymen complaining. Name one European country.

Germany? France?Italy?Spain? What top team in what country? So why this Arsenal policy?

English players are shit, including Young.

@Steve: “Strange how Eboue keeps injury free”

Exactly and so is the case with most defensive players…..along with adebayor…and even cesc…who if u see doesnt try getting overboard with the running…coz its not natural for him….flamini is amazing in that respect…stamina is awesome.

My point is…if u overstretch guys like flamini, diaby, rosicky who arent tht well built as few others….u always run the risk of damaging ur chance near the end of season…..and the absence of real presence in midfield….exposes other guys to a lot of roughness…..which also affects our attacking flow.

I cant imagine flamini putting another season of performance like this….i think if we need to win anything as soon as coming season…..more than anyone else we need to buy a real leader….a defensive midfielder…who is strong and confident. more than half of problems will be over…

This performance level of the squad we have has its highs and lows on its confidence levels.

rest buys wingers strikers CBs etc etc…can come as they will….we need a leader…no doubt.

hope hleb stays….and walcott comes of age…he needs to mature..hope the hype surrounding him doesnt get into his head….same for vela…we will need to improve on our finishing…that way we can have at least 2-3 strikers with 15 goals.

Anyone wanting to see jack wilshere vid..i think gunnerblog has just posted it.

Foreign players made the PL what it is, without them no one will hear about English shit. Let the foreigners go if you dare, and England will go back to 22 players kicking the ball and running behind it at the same time in a mud field.

English players are so much shit that no other clun in any country will ever waste a penny on them. The failures of Owen and McManaman are there for all to see.

english players sell shirts….gr88

now wenger will have to turn his head from hleb and flamini situation to look for a guy who would help him getting shirts sold…..clause..
even if we buy an english player he needs to play regularly for us to generate decent cash out of his shirts…..that is a “BIG” clause….he needs to be good to do that….

ashley young….is sort of ur very dependent stereotype winger……yes he is better than eboue…hell if u played almunia on the wings he mite come out to be better than eboue…so no comparisions…but i really doubt villa will sell him…and i really doubt he will “ADD” to our attacking play in terms of our two touch football…..

I really would love to see robinho play in arsenal shirt though…sighhhh

And how much did we pay for Wilshire? Nothing again…

That Wenger is the devil himself, no wonder every one is so pissed off. The future players that Man Ure and Chelski would pay 30 million a piece for, Arsene is buying for nothing.

McManaman is hardly a failure. He had a good career at Real

So English players are not good so why teams with English players are winning and we’re not.

English players are craps but we have won nothing since Adams, Keown, Dixon, Winterburn, Palour, Sol, Cole etc who formed the backbone of the club left.

The players we replaced them with, haven’t delivered.

You can have your thoughts but for me; we can’t progress with our foreign XI.

If we don’t make the necessary changes and bring in some regular English players, it will be the same next season.

The solution to success is a combination of English and foreign players.

The wholesome foreign approach will fail. It has already failed since 2005 and it will continue to fail if we persist on that front.

just a sec.

AW is all great. But his results has been poor.

If you invest, and win trophies, you’ll get the return. Why doesn’t AW realize that?

Moreover, 12 years wihout a champions league medal is an appalling record. Would the “big clubs” like Chelsea, Real madrid, Manure, Milan, etc would ever accept that?

We shouldn’t be resting on our mediocre records, but try to evolve into a Powerful club. Wenger keeps saying we’re abig club, but the stubborn miser makes me doubt whether he’s up for it.

If you get a “worldclass” player, you’ll make a lot of money by merchandise, etc. Wenger doesn’t even get this right. With Chelsea, Manure, liverpool, and heck, even spurs starting to expand their fanbase throughout asia. Arsenal will be way way behind.

As a fan, I’m really concerned. End of..

I for one still don’t see the connection between English players and winning anything? The stadium is filled up with 60,000 fans who obviously don’t care English players or not. That leaves us with the conspiracy theory, the FA will not let Arsenal win anything until we have 6-8 English players..right? If this turn out to be true, then we should be winning the CL every year..right?

Foreign players = Champions League

English players = PL, FAC, and CC

Right?

What’s all that shirt selling is about? Maybe we should change our name to Arsenal T-shirt Factory or something….WTF.

Message to Ewww OH DEAR OH DEAR OH DEAR!

Gunner4Ever

So why haven’t we won anything since we imported foreign craps a la great Ebuoe, Senderos and their likes. Great players right? Better than any English available.

Yet won nothing; its a shame. All the noise about building every year as a cover for massive importation which ends up empty handed. Nothing.

Change your policy, Arsene or you go down as an eventual failure. Don’t you want us to name the stadium after you retire?

Arsene

If you do a good job and you retire; we rename the stadium after you.

The wholesome foreign polcy approach has failed; drop it.

If the players are good, no problem but a lot of them are even worse than their English counterparts in the championship.

I truly believe if Eduardo didn’t get injured, we would be still competing for the title…but that’s just me….(G4E)

Just so you know, it’s not just you. I truely believe that too.

Howard,

I don’t think for a minute that Arsene would want his name on Arsenal’s stadium, if it’s down to him, he would name it Arsenal stadium.

I didn’t say Eboue is the best against his English counter-part but if you tell me that I should pay 10 million in the English equivalent, I will buy Eboue.

We won the title with Sol & Cole, you mean to tell me if we have two English players we are guaranteed a title? We had the same English players and we didn’t win it in 2003, or 2001 why is that? The Spuds had loads of English crap, they didn’t win nothing for a decade.

Your English argument pretty much sounds like blaming our failures on Ade for not scoring 50 goals a season.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have English players, but we should have the smart ones, a