Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | April 23, 2008

Ice Cold In Alex, Gallas Wants Unity And Theo Wants To Do Better

It would seem that Arsene is a mite concerned about the future of Alexander Hleb. Some interesting comments yesterday about his body language recently and how his frustrations are surfacing visibly on the pitch and they might not have been too far off the mark.

Arsene though has obvious worries about how Hleb could invoke the FIFA regulation, Article 17, and move for a relatively small buy-out fee,

The situation at the moment has become much more unstable with the Webster clause. Every new rule provokes a little bit more inflation and instability because the players can always move out earlier and quicker. Before, when you had a player under contract for five years, they were your player for five years; now, they can leave after three years [if they are] under the age of 28. You are always confronted with potential instability

Arsene’s concerns about potential instability are not misplaced yet the clubs can prevent this situation arising, as Arsenal has with signing Cesc Fabregas to an eight-year contract. There are obvious risks involved with longer-term deals yet no one seems to sign players to them when the initial transfer is made. Hleb has been at the club for three seasons now, which is long enough for Arsene to have decided whether the player had a viable future to his thirties and therefore could have tried to renegotiate his current contract, to defer any potential move away. He has not done so and now must run the risk of Hleb walking.

When the G14 was in place, there was a ‘Gentlemen’s Agreement’ that none of the clubs in that, ahem, august organisation would poach each other’s players, getting the individuals involved invoking the clauses of Article 17. Now that the clubs have agreed to subsume themselves into UEFA, it appears the gloves might be off. If Internazionale have taken this course of action, it seems to me at least that the gloves are off and Arsenal should not fight shy of using these rules to their own advantage this summer if they apply to any player that they want.

Hleb meanwhile has played his last match this season as the FA has charged him with violent conduct. Whilst the disciplinary process has its course to run, starting tomorrow with the hearing, there is little doubt that the Belorussian is looking at a three match ban after Saturday’s referee (sorry, his name escapes me as I write) said that he would have given Hleb a straight red card had he seen his slap across Murty’s neck. There can be no arguments from the offender or Arsenal; guilty as charged, m’lud.

The soap opera that is Mathieu Flamini’s contract renewal is becoming as regular a fixture of the back pages as the gushing love affair that the media has with Cristiano Ronaldo. Juventus’ ‘director’ Jean-Claude Blanc has admitted they want to sign him. The reported offer of £3.5m per year at least lets Arsenal know they are about £10k per week short in negotiations. Flamini’s arrival at the club was shrouded in controversy with Marseilles unhappy about the manner of his departure and it seems to be history repeating itself if the player leaves Arsenal. If he does, so long and thanks for all the fish; if not, more of the same form next season. One thing is certain; he is not irreplaceable but I suspect Arsene might just feel the odd twinge of regret over letting Lassana Diarra go.

William Gallas meanwhile, hopes as we all do, that both Flamini and Hleb stay, allowing Arsene to focus his attention on the areas that need strengthening rather than diverting him away to replace existing staff,

It would be good if we can keep this group together as we know each other very well and we know what we can do. We came very close to winning something this year but you get nothing for being close

If nothing else, Gallas is toeing the party line. He is right, as was Arsene at the weekend, with their assessment of the current squad. For all of his public displays of emotion, Gallas has shown the strength of character that a captain requires in ignoring the criticism in the media, or at least not responding to it. Further, he is spot-on when he reviews recent defensive lapses,

In the last few months we’ve not defended well as a team. It’s not about individuals

Therein lays Arsene’s problem. It has not been one individual responsible for conceding goals; it has been Gallas, Toure, Clichy, Senderos and any combination of the aforementioned that have made the mistakes. It is a collective dereliction of duty and that is harder to solve. Yet solve it he must and get the team into the habit of keeping clean sheets. They had it in the early months of the season but lost the confidence. To regain it is the key to a successful title challenge next year.

Theo Walcott has been garnering praise for his recent performances when on the pitch but he is not satisfied,

At the start of this season I wanted to make 20 to 25 starts and score five goals. At the moment I’m on 17 starts and five goals, so it looks like I will fall short of that

My memory is playing tricks but I thought he was talking about Premier League starts in the pre-season but that is nitpicking. He has shown enough recently to suggest that he might well be a good bet for a regular starting berth in 2008-09. Goalscoring from the midfield has been another collective problem since Christmas so if Theo can add to the tally then all well and good. The only concern I would have is that he is too easily marginalised at times and in that respect he is in a similar position to Eboue; learning the tradecraft of the right hand side of midfield. Walcott may have ambitions for a more central striking role but I would suggest that this might be a couple of seasons away yet. In any case, it seems as if he will have competition from Carlos Vela whose agent ‘bigged him up’. Vela is indeed a promising prospect but the aspirations of a club should not fall onto his shoulders; expectations need to be tempered and to allow him to grow as a player in a new country and more physically demanding league than anything he has so far encountered. It would be nice if he were given the space to do so.

‘til Tomorrow.

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Responses

Poetic justice? I am not so sure since it was Chelsea on the receiving end, but here is what Rafa had to say after last nights game:

“The disgruntled Spaniard said: “It’s difficult to understand. There were 94 or 95 minutes and every decision went against us. All the corners, free-kicks and fouls”‘

Blinking hilarious.

What, no marginal penalty decisions? No series of dodgy sending offs? The world must be against you Rafa.

I believe Vela has been playing left midfield for Osasuna. I presume he would be blooded here first to adapt to the premiership.

I hope Senderos feels better after watching Riise’s gaffe last night. I think it also demonstrates the difference between Wengerball and the dross (but more effective) fayre Chel$ki serve up.

walcott will play mainly as a striker next year for sure…. thats the way AW sees it if i presume correctly…

Arsenal sign another kid who is more of Hleb….

see link below

http://youngguns.wordpress.com/2008/04/22/arsenal-sign-oguzhan-ozyakup-from-az-alkmaar/

Would be really pissed if Flamini and Hleb leave….What is the point of Arsene’s strategy of growing a team over years and not buying “ready made” players (therefore necessary patience) if key players leave along the way because we are not able or willing to keep them…?

http://youngguns.wordpress.com/2008/04/22/arsenal-sign-oguzhan-ozyakup-from-az-alkmaar/

Arsenal sign another 15yr old kid who is more of Hleb. Does this mean Hleb is off to Inter Milan next season

Wenger ain’t going to be playing a 15 year old in the 1st team.

Hleb is a key player for us, although if he is fed up with the treatment in the premiership just wait till the Italian defenders get at him, I’m not quite sure how Mourinho will play him though.

I agree with YW that walcott will probably do another season on the wing. I think he will only go up front in the CC and maybe FAC. he will get some games there but I still see the wing for him in the main next year. there’s nothing wrong with that. its just important that he’s playing regularly and that means firstly staying fit!

who would I rather keep out of Flam and Hleb if I had to keep one? strangely, I think Flam. his energy is second to none and he gives Arsenal a chance in every tough away game. thats not something you can replace easily and certainly not within the current squad.

Hleb is good. he is especially good in europe in the 4-4-1-1. I think at times in the premier league he needs to offer more goal threat. I dont want either of them to leave but I think Flam is harder to replace. we’d also get some money for Hleb but not for Flam.
however its looking more like Flam will go and perhaps Hleb wont.

I agree with Gazzap, if it were a choice between the 2 of them.

However, I feel it is probably more likely that both will stay or both will go.

If that happens it would surely be a huge blow to the team unity that we have heard so much about. It will be a substantial blow to our aspirations.

Hleb does take a pounding, with very little protection, in the PL but Italian football has also been very cynical….so is the ‘grass greener’ over there?

I would be very sorry to see him go & he would be impossible to replace on a ‘like for like’ basis.

A slight change to the way we play might not necessarily be a bad thing.

It may be that Diaby can step up to the free role in a 4-5-1 where he could have more of a goal threat than Hleb. If he can get over his ‘minor’ injury he may well have the chance in the next 3 games, as Hleb will almost certainly be banned.

Did anyone have a clear view to the slapping incident because I have a feeling there is more to it than the scant evidence they have shown?

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I see hleb as a great player for arsenel at the moment who should not be lefty to go at any cost.
I think flamin also enjoys staying at the emirate

Also what of the ramifications of cesc losing his two best mates at the club?

While, like everyone else, I hope that Vela will prove to be an answer to our left side problems — or Traore for that matter — hoping that very young, inexperienced players will somehow slot in and hit the ground gelling at the top level is not good enough. With points totals these days, to win the championship a team must begin almost from the first match to amass enough points.

To me it seems overlooked how much the schedule helped us (!) this year. Yes, we had a lot of pinches in the second half, but the schedule was a godsend in the first couple months when our band of callow young hopefuls had to find their feet. Our relatively soft opening months gave us the opportunity for a relatively low pressure start, something that such a young team maybe could not have managed otherwise.
Sure we had to pay the piper later, all the more so with this small, injured squad, but maybe we wouldn’t have had a title to lose in the first place without that kind start.

I am therefore concerned that we now look at doing the same thing again, pinning hopes on the likes of Vela (who is not only young but hardly prepared for the wonderful WWF world of the PL) and others.

FWIW, I believe the team needs 2 things above all else.

1. The first is the Vidic-style big man at the back (not jumping on the bandwagon here — I wrote this last summer, when I had hoped that Djourou’s last minute loan meant that it was actually about to happen). No brainer, I think most everyone agrees. We cannot win enough points without this.

If we could sort this first priority, the rest of the problems, especially holes that departures could create, could be sorted in endless different combinations and strategies. So for me the second priority is not about position at all.

2. I think that whatever we need to spend, our second priority should be to pay whatever is needed to buy one more noticeable player who is English. I say ‘one more’ on the assumption that Theo will get decent game time next year, so preferably this player would not be another frontline player.

I find it disgusting to have to talk about this kind of thing, but equally feel that the price the team pays is not worth NOT blowing this relatively small amount. Whatever silly extra 5mill or 6mill or 7mill that we have to pay, just paw it out of the bank account and forget it.

Of course, the player should be an asset on the field, but at this point I believe that it is imperative to do this single thing to get past the myriad nagging problems with officials and other biases the team face. Whether it is the kicking of Hleb, the nagging of moron pundits or the all too frequent incidences of critical calls going against us, this situation just takes too great a toll not to be addressed. It is just insane not to do something about it.

I see that Gunnerblog is suggesting Gareth Barry as one of the possible candidates for midfield today. Beyond his other abilities, he is also a strong character and captain.

Whoever…I say pull out the f**king money out and make something like this happen.

ditto a

thts wat…8 year cesc contract wont stop other clubs tapping up on him…..very hard to hold on to players if u dont win trophies…..

i wud luv all 3 to stay for another year…even if that wud be claused on wenger bringing in more quality players than he usually does.

hope arsene sees the gravity of situation tht the club mite face and do anything and i mean anything to hold on to their stars…..
imagine someone like bendtner playing alongside cesc next year in absence of flamini…..will cesc stay year after…i dont think so.

http://gunnerslive.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/exclusive-news-flamini-will-stay-at-arsenal/#comments

hope this is true

I have watched a great deal of the reserves and youths recently and there are a hell of a lot of superb talent in the ranks.

This causes us no ends of problems more so than it cures. Do we go out now and buy big to allow the current crop of players to win something and thus stifling the ones coming through or do we wait and say, “Stay if you want to be part of the bigger picture and future or go now if you want!” It is a tricky one that I am quite glad I dont have to sort out.

A thought has occured to me though, probably our best player this year has been Clichy, so why are no teams being linked with him? Could it be because his agent isn’t bounding him around everywhere? Or maybe that he actually wants to be at Arsenal? Or could it be that he is actually a great pro? If players don’t want to be at the club and show 100% commitment then they should go. End of.

Flamini will stay, he has no intention of leaving, he has played his time right to get himself the best deal possible. If we want him, all we got to do is pay him anything near to what he will get elsewhere. Juventus are offering 60k a week plus a large signing on fee, we should offer him the same otherwise we eill end up spending more trying to replace him. And 2 every1 that is saying he is repplaceable, u obviously havnt been watching arsenal this season. Flamini is 1 of the main reasons why we were challenging, absolutely amazing in every game. My player of the year just ahead of clichy & sagna.

The Hleb situation is a funny 1 tho, i cant see us accepting any offers for him unless he states to wenger that he wants out. But i think he enjoys playing for us, theres a great team spirit here, why would any of them want to leave. We have players who are speculated to be sold in the summer like Ade and Gallas looking forward to next season already.. The MEDIA chats a load of crap in my view, dont take notice of anything.

Oh yeah is Barry this experienced player wenger has been talkin about..??

every time I think about the Flam situation, it makes letting Diarra go so easily, look worse and worse business. Until I hear good news about Flam I wont forget the Diarra situation.

wenger had to say to Flam in Dec/Jan, sign a new contract or diarra plays for the rest of the season. that would have been the best ultimatum. it retains the power on Arsenals side - gives diarra a chance to play and then he would only have been let go in Flam was tied to a long term contract.
strange one from wenger.

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http://world-legend.blogspot.com

please write your fav legend in the world
who are the your idol or may be legend .

I simply cant believe Wenger is speaking out about the most important thing is to keep this team together but has not forced a contract upon one of our key young players! It just seems outrageous to me. Had he really wanted to keep this team together it takes more than words, a bit of organisation wouldnt go a miss!

Now we are fighting a battle to bend our wage structure to keep a player that should have had a contract 6 months to a year ago. If they are good enough to be playing we must want to keep them so offer them a contract. I am worried Wenger is loosing the plot, I really am!!

Selling Diarra, not tying Flamini into a contract, the possibility Hleb can leave, playing Eboue week in week out…

In my eyes something needs to be sorted out, Wenger HAS to strengthen his squad and has to challenge in domestic cups and the league next season, or I really believe his management needs to be questioned. Jose was right a couple of weeks ago when he said Wenger is in a unique position. He has no pressure at Arsenal, he doesnt have to win. He has been given the freedom to build his way, freedom I have agreed with but as far as I am concerned the transition MUST be completed this summer and we have to see the full fruits of this 4 year transition in 2008-09 otherwise I will deem the transition a faliure. We are close, so so close , a couple of quality players and we will be amazing. Wenger has to reconise that. He must strengthen otherwise he will have missed a huge opportunity which in my eyes can not be forgiven.

2008-09 is the decider in my eyes, no more spin, no more chat! This transition ends next season!

Another thought.
Since Arsene always says that bringing in outside people to strengthen the team blocks the way for his precocious kids, I don’t understand why he doesn’t go for 28/29 year olds as transition players.
They would be there just to hold the fort for a year or two. In that couple years (till Arsene’s magic 30 year hook yanks them off the stage), the older player fills the depth gap, contributes essential experience, provides learning for the understudies, and then gets out of the way at just about the time the newest little butterfly is realistically ready to flap its wings.
If a young player knows that his more established competition has a short sell-by date, he is more likely to stick around and wait. In the meantime, the team would have the extra bit of skill and experience to get it through the tough bits.
Not everyone can fit into Arsenal’s style quickly enough for that kind of policy to work, but arguably that is what Gallas was supposed to do — though no one has stepped up to replace him yet. And it would have been the case with Anelke, too.

the club never seem to learn, selling diarra without having flamini sign was such poor management, at a minimum they should have loaned him to pompey as a back up plan. we did the same rubbish with edu and vieira in the same summer (and have won nothing since) and have just done it again, unbelievable!!!!

he should tell a player you sign or you don’t play full stop.

we are only close if we keep helb and flamini if not we need 5 not 3 players. all very disappointing. How long will fab hang around when his two best buddies are sodding off?

by the way both are clearly replaceable but will use up most of the transfer funds befoer we ven get to the strenthening we need. helb there is nothing they can do about but flamini is inexcusable, especially after edu and wiltord walked out for nothing.

off-topic: anyone watch last night’s “special European night at Anfield?” What dispiriting football! Notice how that supposedly superior, gritty English defender Carragher couldn’t handle Drogba all night and resorted to constant fouling just outisde the penalty box? Carragher was totally clueless as to how to handle Drogba. Carragher should’ve been sent off but refs always bottle it against the scousers at Anfield in Europe. Yet Carragher gets no hostile press while Senderos is attacked from all sides.

Its alright some fans saying we have had a good season.But all footballers get well paid these days they want to play for teams that look like they will win trophies NOW.

How long before teams come sniffing around for Clichy.We have still not lost the tag of a selling club.
When are we going to start acting like the 5th richest club in Europe.How hard is Wenger really trying to keep Flamini?

not that hard. Flam was offered 60k yesterday by Juve and we are only offering 50k. Juve are the club he supported as a boy - what do you think Flam will do?
I thought Gallas was on 80k, so why cant Flam be on 60k? I dont know how the rules of the wage structure work, but I guess it has something to do with age. well if thats the rules then the rules are stupid and Arsenal need to review this daft wage structure. If it costs £10k/w more to keep Flam then you do it. You dont risk losing him and have to buy a player in the summer to replace him, which might cost £10m or more.
PHW in the Daily Star sounded like an old fart - ‘oh we offered him what we think is a lot of money and its our final offer’ Get with the real world. Football markets dont work like that. if you want to keep your best players you pay them the market value not what you consider to be a good deal. idiot! If PHW spoke to me like that I think I would go to Juve as well. At least negotiate with the Flamster for christ sake.

gazzap

To a degree I would have say that I agree with PHW. Let’s not forget that Flamini was off last spring and then changed his mind. He has only given us one season in central midfield. Whilst it has been a good one, does that merit making him in the top 3 earners at the club? A better option might be to say to him that he has done well and he’ll get a pay rise this summer followed by another one next year if he maintains his form.

YW

On the subject of cash available for spending, there is a very interesting bit of analysis from the supporters trust on ANR regarding the half year accounts.

Click on my name to link to the article.

It basically confirms that which I was trying to tell people a month or so ago - there is no 100 million pot, but rather we are lucky if it is 25 or so.

it just reinforces the view that nearly all footballers are all selfish and don’t care about their club and are not worthy of our love!!!!

there will always be a club prepared to pay them more. you do wonder why it is always us that suffers this and if we want to become the best team in the country again, we either pay up front or pay them higher wages later when they develop. because currently we are not buying them ready made, but lose them when they are getting close to it. how can we compete?

even if there is 25m sell, players to make up the required amount, bendtner, senderos, hotye, diaby, eboue will all earn you decent amounts of money.

We must accept that we r not a club thats going to just give someone a payrise after having one outstanding season. What makes Flamini think that he should have more money than Clichy, Sagna, Ade, Gallas, Toure who have played equally well this season. Ahley Cole swerved off the road when he was offered £55k feeling he was worth a lot more.R we missing him! No. If thats all it takes to succumb to the lure of Juve which was the curse of another famous Frenchman TH14 good luck to him. Depending on how badly Arsene needs a player then Im sure there will be exceptions to the wage structure. Of the three Hleb,Flam n Cesc I think only Cesc should b given all he needs to stay at the club becoz he drives the team and has played consitenly every season.

No one is irriplaceble should anyone leave someone else will be draughted in to take on the mantle.Do u think there is no competition for places?There are players chomping at the bit to put on an Arsenal shirt. I agree that all these transfer sagas are pretty annoying and sometimes I wander whether it drags on just to give the papers something to talk about.

We all thought when Anelka and TH14 went that was the end of Arsenal football club. But there was always life at the club after them and even more exciting prospects to savour. Wenger is a genius and I trust that he will adapt the team to play the best football they can produce as a team whoever is on the pitch.He is the man who makes good players extraordinary after all.

Dan

If we sell half the team, inevitably it will generate a bit of cash.

But having sold half the team we will have to not only replace that half but buy the two or three additional players we need.

Rather defeats the purpose don’t you think?

Get rid of Hoyte I agree, but the rest are all perfectly decent as cover.

selling gilebrto and lehman will also save alot of wages.

bottom line is players want money and success, we don’t pay top wages are currently not winning anything. it shouldn’t be a shock that some are looking elsewhere.

joseph, i didn’t neccessarily mean selling them all were naming a few dispensable players who have decent selling values. however 5 in and 5 out isn’t a problem either. our problem has been the depth of quality of the squad not the quantity of players we have available.

The whole thing is suspect when you consider the position both players were in at the end of last season. They were bit-part players who almost everyone wouldn’t have missed much/if at all, if they left. As a matter of fact, alot of people were calling for them to be shipped out. Based on that a sensible manager couldn’t just whip out contract extensions for players who at that time were not performing well and struggling to get in the starting lineup. They picked up their games this season I believe with an eye on shelving themselves for a possible move. Who is to say if they end up staying they will have the same drive for the remainder of their “new” contracts?????.

My point here is that I believe they deserve to stay, and I will be glad if they do, but the reasoning/motives behind their current season’s performances (if this is the case), would make me happier if they leave. They are all very replaceable and I have had to think for the whole season that Hleb is giving AW more headaches than any other player in the side. He has been immense, and can’t be left on the bench, now what does he do with real supporting strikers like RVP, or in a way Eduardo, when Rosicky and Diaby are fit. The result has been to push Eduardo, (the most lethal finisher in the EPL in my opinion) wide so that Hleb could be accommodated behind Adebayor. We have seen the same thing with RVP being pushed wide lately for the same reason. Although we play well, we have 1 striker that will almost never shoot, so don’t worry defenses much. Since they have to deal with Ade, they concentrate on that since Hleb has to find someone else to pass it to. Hleb leaving will give us back our cutting edge upfront allowing real strikers with real goal threat to play as strikers. I will be a good thing for us since we stand to make some mullas out of it.

With all the affinity for ice cream and “I want to stay but wont sign” crap at the center of the team, more committed player in a side find it difficult to really trust their mates and I think that has been the reason for the “togetherness” lessening as these crap continue especially when more dedicated players like Gilberto and Diaby having to rot their behinds on the bench.

Most people are raising hell about the Diara sell. First, we don’t know if there was a clause in contract/agreement about the circumstances of his stay and whether he could/should be allowed to leave if he doesn’t like it for any reason. Probably AW told him to check it out for some time to see if he likes it otherwise he can move elsewhere as part of the initial agreement to lure him to us. Now he doesn’t like it, you let him go, even if he is the best footballer in the world. Loose your integrity by reneging on your promises you may not find it easy to sign other players in the future.

Also the boy’s heart was not with Arsenal from the first interview he made, it was about him and This squad now is thriving on a “team” mentality and togetherness. He even declared himself mentally unfit to play before being sold off. He just didn’t want to stay. You don’t keep that kind of a player, especially if you stand to make a profit of about 1 mil a month on him. His return financially has been superb. I doubt if any other player will mach that.

On the contrary, I would like Gilberto to stay. Lehman also if he can accept the number 2/3. I would like to see Fabianski more as a no 2 and to really push Almunia. One other player I will not miss will be GALLAS. He is too selfish for a team player. He has been great but because he got something (the captaincy) out of it, but if he were to be stripped of that, would he be as dedicated?????

I think AW appeased him to sort of hold the fort for this season and we might see the back of him this summer. He was willing to quit last summer when Henry and Ljumberg left so no point holding onto him.

We should have loaned Diarra to Pompey & only sold him if Flamini goes. To end up losing both would be criminal.

The only player we should break the bank in order to keep is Cesc. The rest are replaceable although I`d prefer almost all of the current squad to stay.

Gareth Barry is a good shout for the summer. Experienced , consistent & versatile but definetley NOT worth some of the figures being bandied about.

It doesn`t matter what nationality he is but it might put a stop to the usual media `foreign`cr*p about us.

you must be blind,senderos is by miles better than gallas,look how many points he cost us this season.

It seems that the rule that allows Alex Hleb to leave is just terrible and will only help large clubs (and players). From what I have understood, the rule is that players can buy out their contract with three years left if they want. In other words, if you are being overpaid according to your current performance (or perceived future value) you stay with what you’ve got. If you improve and can earn more (or the market improves), you either walk or threaten to walk and renegotiate. What incentive does a club now have to buy a player and train him if he will then leave. It would be like paying for your wife/husband to go to medical school and then not getting anything in the divorce when they decide to leave you and marry up.

So the club is supposed to break the wage structure just for Flamini’s one good season?

Of course after doing so, there will be no consequences to such a decision. I mean, other players won’t take a lesson from that and make the same demands, forcing the club’s wages to go higher and higher. They’ll all be good little boys and not want the same treatment Flamini gets.

Yeah, that’s right, Arsenal should succumb to blackmail from a very good player who had one good season with us. The same player who played the same game with Marseille as he is now playing with us. Who will no doubt start the same shenanigans with his next club.

Let Juve have him.

I really don’t see this as blackmail, by the way. Players want to get as much money as they can. They may earn good (outrageous) money for a few years, but it all ends pretty quickly. Flamini may have decided he is staying, but by playing very well this year he has given himself some market power. Now he is using. Once he signs the contract he cannot do that anymore.

there must be many other players in helb’s position where are they and why aren’t we taking them from their clubs?

I under stand the blackmail sentiment NYmarcus, but in my view we could solve that quite simply offering him 40k a week, plus the difference over the period for signing on.

That way his wage stays within the structure and he gets the money he would otherwise get elsewhere in a lump sum. Other players can’t complain, unless they run their contracts down - but by that time we would hopefully of sorted out the policy!

Good to see one or two posters are still able to step back from the mass hysteria re MF16’s contract that is at risk of breaking out here. Perhaps some of us should stop refreshing Newsnow so often and take a deep breath!

MF16 was prepared to leave a year ago and AW was prepared to let him go, but since no-one of note came in for him, he decided to stay. Fortunately for him and us he has really stepped up this season. However, he has done this for one season only.

How do we know he can sustain this level or get better? I can’t blame him for looking to cash in, he is out of contract so he is entitled to do so. But at the same time, the club cannot just accept his demands and pay him whatever he thinks he is worth. It will just undermine the team ethos Arsene is trying to build as each player troops in through the door demanding that he also get a pay rise.

MF is important, but not essential to our team. Someone else can and will cover his role and the team will adapt. Have you learnt nothing from the departure of TH14, which also generated similar levels of hysteria?

If money is the main motivator for MF16, he will leave and there is nothing we can do about it. If he stays great, but maybe he should look at someone who left for the sake of £5,000 and has looked a shadow of himself. He is not that good a player that he will be as effective without the people around him who contribute to making him look good.

As for Hleb, I doubt very much that his reasons for leaving will be related to winning trophies as I strongly suspect that it is the ‘treatment’ he receives week in week out in the EPL which has more to do with it.

Since I have no say over who stays or goes, I will just wait and see and to paraphrase ‘God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot control and the wisdom to know the difference’.
My blood pressure will thank me!

hkm, u’ve worded all my thoughts!

We were so close this year which no-one (including this one) expected but we missed out because we were just an player or two short. The team did run out of steam in the triology with liverpool & that after playing ManU out of the park the 1st half the effort caught up with us in the 2nd half!

About buying players & stifling young talent, players like Cesc wouldn’t want to wait another 2/3 yrs to start winning trophies, they have reasons to stay at Arsenal for life (the style & the manager) but when they look at the subs they expect to see support there. Subs who they have the confidence in, to come in & dig us out of a hole or drive the final nail in the coffin. The bench strength has been the difference between us & the teams ahead of us in the table. The promising teenagers can wait to turn 18/19 before hoping for a place in the 1st team, if we don’t start the next season as favourites it would be difficult to hold on to special talents in the club.

The club & manger have done everything right & the future (after a yr or two) is ours & they would have done it on shoe string budget but they need to do what it takes that to give the players the confidence that they start the season believing that a double is possible…even if it means buying a 28/29 yr old star to end the transition this year, hold fort till the kid actually develop into world beaters.

The one thing I wish Wenger did a little differently is being nice to want away players, he said he let go of Viera to help his career, he let go of TH14 when he wanted to go, he even let Diarra go, Edu, Campbell, the list goes on but other clubs retain & get the best out of their players - C Ronoldo spring to mind (he needed security guards on his return after the world cup). Cuducini is another prime example, he was the best in the league till Cech came along. We had a problem of plenty in Dec in the midfield dept & I’m disappointed that we are in a situation that we might have to look for a DM now

it’s a really worrying state of affairs as regards the ease with which players can engineer moves.

we’ve gone from the bosman slave extreme to another.

it’s just going to result in players earning stupid money and it will incentivise clubs behaving stupidly a la chavski

Taygoon is right about Hleb taking a position where a goalscorer should be. Playing Eduardo & then RVP wide left has been a waste.

I`m still not sure where Hleb`s best position is in our side & the way he`s shuffled around I don`t think Wenger does either.

For all his talent on the ball his end product is disappointing & someone more direct could be what we need especially if we get good money for him.

As for Flam, I just don`t see him blackmailing Arsenal , it`s more trying to get the best offer for himself. Either way , the club goes on, with or without him

diarra, didn’t have arsenal in his heart as he was only there two minutes, not playing and decided to look for playing time elsewhere. flamini and helb clearly don’t have arsenal in their heart or they wouldn’t be looking elsewhere. i don’t buy this helb scared business, he probably wants more money and the success that inter are having domestically.

as for flam if he goes he goes. the principal is more the issue that with supply and demand as it is other clubs will always be offereing more money and as a result we will more than likely keep losing players. i am not advocating paying players whatever they want or can get, (they are grossly overpaid as it is) and i am not sure what the answer is. but using the flam example if the the extra cost is 10k a week that will be cheaper than buying a 10m replacement and his new wages and the continuity and growth of the team can be continued.

for us if we are not going to buy established stars we have to at a minimum keep them them when they become stars or we will permanetly be behind the big boys.

gazzap

If we offer more than 50 for Flamini then how much do we upgrade Cesc’ wages? Mind you, it will be more difficult to replace Cesc.

At 50 Flamini will be taking more than Cesc who’s at 40 and also Ade and Hleb. What has he done much for Arsenal? He’s been great for us only in one season; what’s the guarantee that he can even repeat his performance in the coming season?

In 2006 Senderos seemed to be on the rise but now look?

We can’t pay more than 50 as it will destroy budget and wage structure.

Do you think he deserves more than the following; Ade, Cesc, Hleb, Toure and Clichy?

Personally I don’t think he should collect more wages than the above for a one year good job.

Against all Odds…

I think it all comes down to the fact that if a player is thinking of leaving or doubt his future with the club, then he is not a committed player. See when and if you sign for Arsenal based only on money (like most other clubs) then money can persuade you to stay.

I see it at Arsenal that players mostly sign on many different reasons not just the money aspect or prospect only. Thierry Henry could’ve made more millions if he wanted to leave Arsenal, but he didn’t. Bergkamp could’ve made more millions if he wanted to leave but he didn’t. Viera could’ve made more millions if he wanted to leave Arsenal, but he didn’t. They left only when it was time for them to open room for someone to continue the legacy……You’re not always going to be lucky and get those kind of committed players, but you got to look hard for them.

I may be living in La La Arsenal Land to think this way, but I see my support for Arsenal in a very different way. I support Arsenal because it’s not all about money, I don’t really think it ever was at Arsenal…I maybe wrong on this but I will take my chances. It was always about the desire of the players we sign to be a part of the club’s legacy while creating their own. I know this kind of philosophy sometimes will not get you any where in the age of Money or Money Era…whatever you want to call it. It’s like having to win against all odds……

It makes all the difference when we do it, and we will.

G4E

I hear what you are saying Dan, but £10,000 per week over a year soon adds up and once you pay it to one player you are opening the door to other players demanding the same. If we had won a trophy this season, I think MF would have been in a stronger position, however we did not. Any player looking to leave to earn trophies elsewhere ought to remember just how close we came this season and examine their own contribution. Did they really give their all in every game to make it happen? They all have to take some responsibility for our failures as well as our successes. If we were perennial underachievers who were miles away from winning anything I could understand it, but we were a gnats whisker away from greatness this season.

pass, i think we made good progress this year but a gnats whisker is simply not accurate. quarter final of the CL and probably 3rd by approx 7 points and out of it at least a month before the end of the season (but in reality it was dead after chelsea) is not a gnats whisker. that would be last day of the season stuff or barcelona in 2006.

as for the 10k agree it adds up and affects others but that is business. i am a chief financial officer of a company and the way people are paid isn’t always a simple comparison of employee to employee many different components are involved when they arrived, length of tenure, timing of pay rise, others in the same position etc etc. different circumstances create different outcomes and a hard and fast rule doesn’t always work or you will lose poeple. the ideal situation is people not knowing other’s salarys but i am not sure how that works at football clubs.

either way in the flam case the additional 500k a year for a few years is more cost efficient than bringing in a replacement.

dan

How do we handle the rest of the players? Reason is that at 60K; Flamini will be taking more than, Cesc, Ade, Clichy,Toure and Hleb. Even at 50k offer he will only fall behind Gallas, Gilberto and I think Jens. So what does he want from Arsenal?

The issue is giving his contribution and the fact that he’s only been positive in a year; is it the right thing to do?

the problem is if he leaves it will cost us more to replace him. as for the other players when their contracts are up then they need to negotiate seperately as they do when they 1st arrive at a club. what i don’t understand is why they all know what the others are getting. or in fact where you are getting your info from. i don’t know what sign ons, bonuses etc they get and that is the way to differentiate between players.

he has only had one good year and therefore he can sod off. however to have set limits when other clubs don’t just sets you up for your best players to leave. look at ronaldo, barca are sniffing around so utd give him silly money to make sure he doesn’t go anywhere. i am not suggesting we get silly but you know what i mean.

clearly if we are short of funds jens and gilberto’s wages saved will be very useful.

Dan, I manage people in my job and I know that in most cases individuals are only out for themselves and the maximum they can get. However, I have to balance the needs of the individual against the needs of the team. So I know that sometimes you have to set your parameters and accept that some will choose to move on dependent upon what is important to them. It’s a balancing act and you win some and you lose some. At the end of the day, MF will make the choice that is best for him. As Arsenal fans we hope that will be to stay put, but if he chooses to move on, so be it. We cannot influence his choice and therefore it make sense to me to just wait and see and accept that whatever happens, happens for a reason. We have lost better players than him and survived. AFC is bigger than any individual and even if he leaves there are players lining up out there who would love to play for AFC. Why else do you think we are linked with all and sundry in the transfer market?

Flamini is a shit he can bugger off the greedy bastard. No problem he will be replaced as for Hleb I don’t really care if he goes lot of dribbling no end product no goals what we want is a goal scoring midfielder like Pires and Lunberg they gave us 30 goals every seaosn between them. Arsene knows the value of every player. If Hleb was highly regarded in wenger’s eye he would’ve nailed him with a long Contract like Fabregas. Any player who thinks he is a star and Arsenal not big enough for him he can bugger off. We only want players who are proud to play for Arsenal. I can’t beleive people are still going on about Diarra. He is a good player nothing special he is a 5 million player no more so stop moaning about Diarra. He is at a perfect club for his level.

“We have made what we think is a pretty generous offer and we are waiting to hear whether he will accept or not,” Hill-Wood said in the Daily Star.

I totally agree….. no way i can think of flamini asking for more than 50k. its more than cesc. I mean if u cannot respect the wage structure at the club where u are presently in…..then you really dont care much about football…..u worry much about how short ur career is and that you need to make a living for the rest of life out of that short time earnings…

that to me is not a champion by any means….he can very well go…hleb on the other hand has different reasons for being unsatisfied….and i blve wenger will keep him with all his might.

I’m over the roof about the demands of Flamini. I mean refusing to take 50k? Is he better than Hleb, Cesc, Ade, Clichy? He’s only played well in one season. Senderos played well in 2006 but look at how poor he’s become?

We have so many in that position coming up who can even be better.

I’ve always felt that we need a bigger player in that position.

If we get a bigger, stronger and pacy CB, we can move Toure there, after all that is his natural position. Mind you, its also the normal position for Song and Djourou too.

So he’s not irreplaceable. What we need is a CB and then we can bring both Toure, Song and Djourou to compete in the position. Denilson, Gibbs, Randall, Lansburi will be fighting it out with Cesc for the other midfield position.

In fact Diarra was even a surplus if Arsene had rather considered playing Djourou there instead. Fans cry for Diarra as if Diarra was with us for years. Diarra has gone to a club suitable for him.

I don’t think Diarra is so good as to see any top team rushing for him. I see him rotating in the middle level clubs.

I think Arsene should let Flamini leave if he doesn’t like the offer of 50k which is bigger than what a lot of our better players are taking.

We need experience in the middle with passing, shooting and tackiling abilities? The man in the lead is Villa’s Barry. He’ll cost but he’ll repay that with shirt sales easily. Once we win a trophy, the money will flow. Look at Chelsea, they are bringing in more money than us now.

So we go for Barry to replace Flamini if we think we don’t have a player around to do a good job.However, Barry is better than Flamini. He’s stronger, better passer and greater shooter in the 19, 22, 25 yards area. He has tons of premiership experience. He’s a good free kick taker too. So bringing him in will add value.

We also go for Richards to fix the CB problem.

Finally, let’s go for Benjani to increase our goal scoring capabilities, while we keep all the strikers that we have including Bendtner to increase depth.

Any other player stays except Jens, Gilberto, Rosicky (we will still have a problem with him with his injuries) and Eboue ( he’s a waste with Vela coming). Toure could help with the RB position so we don’t need Eboue anywhere.

i am dead sure abt barry not coming to us…..
abt richards…i think it will be a gud buy..

anything else is hard to predict….but after watching yesterday’s and the day before UCL matches…I miss Arsenal even more….

the way chelshit, pisspool and manure played…if they r allowed an easy pass next year too…they wud just kill the game…..

I am happy with wat we have been doing all these years…and present year has been great entertainment…..after last 2 nights…my respect for wenger has increased sevenfold.

I think Hleb can go. Although he keeps the ball, but he is just a passer and not a scorer. We should go for a player that will give at least 10 goals per season.

Flamini should stay. He is even more important than Cesc or Adebayor. Watch our game without him and see the difference. We lost at Pool once he was injured. I think the club has to keep him and develop Song as his assistant. He should be made captain as he motivates the team better than Gallas.

We need a tall skillfull CB, and a deputy for Clitchy. Traore can play better upfront. We should get a 20 goals a season striker and an AM to help Cesc. He played too many games!

Flamini has been a perfect partner for Cesc.Fuck the wage structure.We have not won a trophy for 3 seasons.Are we going to turn into another Spurs.Dont worry there always next season.Bullshit.It time Arsenal started acting like one of Europes top clubs.Man Utd have just offered a £60,000 a week contract to Wes Brown,yet we only offer the Flamster 50k a week.

On the point of Diarra if he was no good why did Wenger sign him and say he was a great signing for the club.
Diarra is a better back up midfield player than Gilberto or Denilson and he would be an ideal backup foe Sanga
He should NOT have been sold

One of my favorite is gilberto. I really want to see much more of gilberto in action!! Go Gilberto go!

We don’t need to buy to replace Flamini. For all the great things he has done this season he is nothing but a pleasant suprise, a very pleasant suprise if I might add. He is more of a “brute force” kind of a midfielder than anything else, and that does not make a good MF, let alone a DM. He is bound to work himself into somekind of injury the way he goes into challenges, and being attack minded, he leaves out back 4 exposed at times. I would prefer having Gilberto or Diaby in DM as their styles brings some calmness and better cover to our back 4. It is interesting people don’t see it that way but looking at previous games, flamini forward-ventures has resulted in some nervy moments this season.

Dan and Passenal; I have been in similar “shoes” as you guys and you are both making valid points about wages and personnel retention. I must add though that on top of it being a business, it is a business about playing football and having had a rather intimate with the technical aspect of the game, psychology is a vital part of the game. How other players feel and interact with each other on the field. You can have 11 best players in the world and they could lose to a mid-table epl team. AW has had the balance just about right, save for about 1 thing only. Gallas/Leadership on the pitch. If Gilberto was on the pitch @ Birmingam as the captain, we will be singing kumbayah right now in the EPL and on our way to Moscow.

Gallas put in determined efforts in early stages but his meltdown wouldn’t have been too big an issue if he hadn’t tried to “own” too much prior to that. His 5 min borefests (talk) to “His Players” (mind you these are professionals who know what they are doing) in the open before each game, as a demonstration of his captaincy, (it could have done in the dressing room before they take the field), somewhat reduces other players to people who had to be told what to do, and from that moment, he needed to back his actions with performances. He didn’t. Gilberto’s half season as a stand in Captain had something like 11 or so goals plus the team always played better than when TH was in the side and he didn’t have to own the players, not in public at least.

Anyways, Gallas aside, both Flamini and Hleb are replaceable FROM WITHIN the current squad, we just need to add numbers as backups, which means NO big names necessary. The Chemistry and the balance is about right, and if any of the players wants to upset that I would gladly wish them all the best somewhere else. I am on a personal opinion that their departures will be another AW’s masterstroke (if he let them leave)

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