Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | February 17, 2008

We Got What We Deserved – A Good Hiding

Manchester United 4 – 0 Arsenal

1 – 0 Rooney (16)
2 – 0 Fletcher (20)
3 – 0 Nani (38)
4 – 0 Fletcher (74)

Eboue sent off  (49)

When Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle wrote the Sherlock Holmes mysteries, he constructed complex scenarios requiring astounding feats of deduction by the master detective to solve the crimes. Well, even he would struggle to come up with a plausible theory on the absolutely abject performance turned in by the Arsenal squad yesterday.

None of what follows should detract from Manchester United’s thoroughly deserved victory. They dominated all areas of the pitch from the start and had a very easy ride in midfield. Once ascendancy had been established there, the rest fell into place. If I were to be critical of them, it would be that they did not score at least two more such was the gulf between the two sides.

Not one Arsenal player enhanced their reputation or showed any inkling as to why they enjoyed such kudos in world football. It would be easy to dismiss this as the result of tinkering with the starting line-up. Quite simply, it was shambolic. There was no cohesion, no team spirit, and no desire to win. They turned up, put on their kits and might as well have walked off straight away.

To concede an early goal at Old Trafford makes the task of winning difficult; two in the first twenty minutes gives the task Everest proportions but to be brutally honest there was a lack of desire to retrieve the situation. Heads went down and a damage limitation exercise took place. And failed miserably. United had chances and the possession to inflict a humiliating defeat but somehow resisted the temptation.

It is senseless to point the finger at one player, mainly because you do not have enough digits to do so. The wide midfielders left the full backs woefully exposed; Traore has had a rough time in his first team outings against good opposition facing regular attacks on the left whilst Bacary Sagna’s consistent performances this season are highlighted in his absences. On the right, Eboue provided scant comfort to Hoyte. However, the failings of both defenders were cruelly exposed, their inexperience at this level savagely highlighted.

Eboue’s dismissal cannot be defended. He led with his leg and made little attempt to get to the ball; his disregard for his fellow professional’s health brings shame upon him. That he is now missing for three Premier League puts pressure on the squad with its current fitness problems. William Gallas may well find himself in a spot of bother for his petulant kick at Nani although Sir Alex Ferguson might be well advised to stop his public complaints for the youngster may find the Disciplinary Committee look at his attempt to headbutt the Frenchman rather more severely than any newspaper.

I would question the wisdom of Arsene’s substitutions. Not in the sense of who he brought on or in the removal of Fabregas and Hleb but to replace Eduardo seems pointless. If Adebayor had a genuine hamstring problem, surely it would have been better to leave Eduardo on the pitch and not risk further damage to the Togolese international?

Perhaps a more annoying aspect of yesterday is that United were rocking following recent performances; now their confidence will be high. But there is no point in crying over spilt milk; it is what it is. Despite the despondency that a heavy defeat and spineless performance brings, we should not forget that the players who have got us this far have not suddenly become bad players. It is now up to them to remind everyone that even the best have off days but what separates them from the mediocre is the ability to regain their form immediately.

That Milan visit The Emirates on Wednesday is in many respects a blessing. They are high quality opposition against whom the squad can rebuild their confidence with a good performance in much the same way as they did following the drubbing at Tottenham. The squad will either sink or swim; they have swum beautifully in the past and I believe they will do so again this week.

Adebayor is given a hatful of praise by Cesc in the News of the World this morning, the Spaniard believing him to be the best centre-forward in the Premier League. Fabregas says,

Thierry Henry was unique in what he did for Arsenal but I believe Manu is the perfect replacement…[he] is a sensation in the 18 yard box. Ronaldo is swift but Adebayor is more sure of himself in the are. He has more technical ability that Drogba while Anelka needs help from his team-mates to score.

Not that Adebayor is alone in receiving plaudits,

I believe Arsenal also have the best attack in England. Not only are Adebayor and Eduardo scoring goals but our rivals will also suffer when Robin van Persie gets back from injury

A couple of observations; firstly, surely it should be ‘IF’ not ‘WHEN’ in the case of van Persie’s return from injury this season? Secondly, no mention of Bendtner? An oversight, I am sure.

Arsene  meanwhile believes that a European Super League is inevitable,

The end of G-14 is the death of a European super league under the banner of the club. But it will still go ahead. The clubs all agreed not to use civil courts and to only accept the arbitration of UEFA and FIFA. Nothing can be decided by a civil court now. Also, the clubs have said they will not organise any competition that is not under the jurisdiction of UEFA or FIFA. But the European super league will happen - under UEFA’s banner

The club meanwhile provides more comfort for foreign investors. With Usmanov upping his stake in the club, another ‘predator’ moves into view, Doan Nguyen Duc, chairman of the Hoang Anh Gia Lai club (HAGL)

And with that, I bid you a fond farewell. ’til Tomorrow.

Posted in Arsenal, Champions League, FA Cup, Football, Premier League, Premiership

« It’s Showtime - Manchester United Preview
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Responses

They were just not interested. As for individuals I thought Jens had an excellent game and Bendnter and Eduardo did as well as anyone given a complete lack of supply.

The rest were woeful for various reasons - Hoyte and Traore were exposed, Toure was clearly unfit asnd Gilberto is finished. Cesc looked tired.

Eboue should be moved on in the summer. He is becoming a liability and I suspect that unless Rosicky can sustain some fitness he may move on too.

By: Stuart on February 17, 2008
at 9:07 am

Excellent Summary Yogi

Before the game, I felt that I would not have been too gutted to go out if we lost, however the attitude and effort shown by the team is inexcusable. I just dont know where it came from, at least in the Spurs game they tried.

I was critical of Gilberto in the aftermath last night and wondered if my thoughts of his current level would change with the hangover, well it hasn’t. I can’t believe he has fallen from grace so rapidly, he has now had the games to rule out match sharpness so I guess his playing days lie elsewhere.

Likewise Eboue, that was the final straw for me, he has a history of ridiculous challenges, diving and in this season below par performances. I appreciate he is learning a new position but given his disciplinary record, I would prefer it if we packed his bags in the Summer. He should also pay the expenses of the 9000 Gooners that were ripped off with his performance.

Eduardo was the only outfield player to come away with any credit yesterday, and it seemed odd that he was the one to come off especially as Bendtner was un-characteristically completely not interested. When he gave up on a Lehman goal kick to let a header back to a great Rooney chance summed up the whole day

Just got to draw a line under this one, and get back to winning games. Hopefully the fixtures will mean we have a premiership game on weekends when Man Ure and Chelsea are in cup action and we can get the points in the bag to secure the Premiership.

By: Patthegooner on February 17, 2008
at 9:14 am

The problem lay in midfield -
Silva is running on fumes - he never did well as our prime defensive midfielder but now he is just terrible, he can’t pass, can’t tackle and no longer intercepts like he used to do.
Hleb and eboue gave no support to our young fullbacks
as a result toure and gallas were pulled out wide giving park, rooney and nani acres of space

Eduardo had an excellent game - never gave up running and competing.
Bentdner was ok but didn’t have any outlet when he won the ball

eboue is terrible - he has contributed nothing in terms of goals and assists all season - yesterday was his last game i hope he is a bad apple that wenger must see can’t be turned around

Hopefully we will have the same reaction as we did after the spurs defeat.

By: double98 on February 17, 2008
at 9:20 am

My belief is what Arsene did on that saturday afternoon was to tell the boys that this game was not a proirity. With the team so decimated with injuries, with those selected to play walking on thin ice due to niggly injuries and poor form, (Kolo & Eboue) the idea was just to go and take it easy out there, make sure there were no more injuries. let united win it and let THEM have the headache of too many games. But I’m sure he never expected such a thrashing. Something that was inevitable given the names on the fullback list. Adebayor, Flamini and Senderos were drafted in not, as most seem to assume, to try to turn anything arround, but to have some sort of run out in preperation for wednesday night. That’s my theory anyway.

By: Rob on February 17, 2008
at 9:22 am

Good summary of a bad day, YW.
Possibly the worst under AW, certainly worse than the 6-1 at OT & 5-1 against the Spuds.
On paper we had a good enough looking team but they ‘wanted it’ so much more.
I would echo what Stuart & partialy Pat have said. Only Jens, Ed & Bentner were worthy of any credit.
Eboue was a disgrace, deserving his red card (Wiley was looking for him after the Terry job). Didn’t understand our unproffesional 2nd half petulance. Why get involved when you have already lost. Just play the game out with as little risk as possible.

This may be a blessing later in the season but right now it hurts

By: Flint McCullough on February 17, 2008
at 9:35 am

They wanted it more than us…similar to spurs game in carling cup..

i am not too gutted..with our thin squad we cant concentrate on so many trophies..so we might just have saved ourselves few points from coming fixtures..

i agree with most 4 positions which were totally exposed and which will hopefully be replaced against milan and others..traore..hoyte..gilberto and eboue..

lastly it was embarrassing to see us play that way..but it happens..with arsenal it happens less often..ask liverpool if u dont believe

By: adc on February 17, 2008
at 9:39 am

I didn’t see the game so I’m not in a position to comment on whether your analysis was harsh or not but most other comments seem to agree with you.

The team are really struggling now with the injuries - we desperately need some players back. Also, Cesc really needed a rest as he is just getting over a virus. Lets hope the team are able to draw a line under this performance and get back to business on Wednesday because if they can’t be up for a game against Milan, they might as well pack up and go home.

By: Passenal on February 17, 2008
at 9:46 am

Rob, I do agree with your opinion. It is the only possibility that makes sense unless we accept that the team is not good enough. I think it is.

Eboue should move on. Our young full backs were all at sea. We do need a couple of players. What ius the latest on V. Persie. Thought he was meant to be back in training this week.

By: Robert Dersley on February 17, 2008
at 9:51 am

Excellent review Yogi as usual, i am not quite so angry as i was last night but still hurting after that debacle of a performance.
As i posted after the game it was bad enough for us in our armchairs, what about the poor blighters who had to travel a long way and had to pay serious money to watch for me probably the most inept Arsenal display i have seen for a very very long time.
Flint is correct it could be a blessing in disguise and i agree with Pat, the only thing we can do is draw a line and start again on wednesday.
There cant be any bigger motivation than to beat the current euro cup holders but i just hope we can get rid of these niggly injuries and get a decent team out. Whatever Sagna’s family problems are,he needs to return and play period.
I could go on and slate every player which would probably make me feel a bit better but there is no point as i would make this post seem like reading War and Peace, they were all worse than dreadful with the exception of Jens and probably Eduardo.
A win against Milan would go a long way into making this not quite the most miserable week of the season so far.
Here’s hoping

By: veteran on February 17, 2008
at 10:03 am

Excellent post Yogi, I was all ready to be thoroughly depressed about our team today, until I read some of the disgracef blog pieces today. There are clearly a proportion of our fan base who are anti-Wenger, anti-youth and generally brain dead, whilst we’ve been on this run they’ve shut up, but as soon as we suffer a setback … Chickens home to roost by the Online Gooner today, f-off, what a disgrace, on the verge of a league title and talk of chickens coming home to roost, beyond comprehension.

Well done for a sensible piece Yogi, we’re all thoroughly outraged by our performance yesterday, but we must get behind the team, be proper supporters, and trust Arsene to clear out the deadwood at the end of the season.

One final comment, having been a big Eboue fan at the start of the season, I don’t want to see him in an Arsenal shirt again. We’ve never had a player so willing to let his team mates down, forget the fouls and general madness, his lack of effort is mind-boggling.

By: hboy on February 17, 2008
at 10:33 am

Agree a pretty poor effort, but come on especially supporters such as Vet and Flint, its a loss fellars just a loss. we’ve been there before and we will be there again; think back to the 6-2 flogging we got and then won the title. Sorry but i still like Eboue and so he got a red card how many did Pat get? Come on its the arsenal lets see what everyone is saying this time next week.

By: Old Timer on February 17, 2008
at 10:54 am

As usual a very good blog from you YW. I agree with Rob I think this game was very much a damage limitation excercise precipitated by the recent spat of injuries. Le Proffesuer cud not afford to commit a threadbare squad on an assault on 3 fronts. Our squad is just not big enough for this at the moment. It seems like putting all your eggs in one basket but we have to be realistic. Le Professeur is seldom ever wrong and Arsenal will deliver when it matters they are a big game team when it counts and the games with Everton,Man U and Liverpool earlier show this.

So I am not suprised by the defeat just the manner of it. I tnink the plan had been very much to conserve energy with an eye on the Milan game and take it easy in this game and u could see that no one ever seemed to get out of 2nd gear. But like Spurs, Man U were playing this game like their season depended on it.The whole team playing like demented Red Devils made to look even better by Arsenals apathy.They simply wanted this more. Arsenal looked leggy,lacking in invention and cohesion and battle worn leaving the whole team hoplessly exposed and led to two early comical goals.The whole team deserve some collective stick. But Eboue and Gilberto deserves special mention for one for sheer idiocity the other for his increasingly inept displays. The guys been playing too much samba football, poor passing an tackling,lazy, off the pace. There is no way that Clichy and Sagna would have made Wayne Rooney aka “Shrek”, Anderson and Nani aka “Little Ronaldo”look so good .

Only Euardo for working his socks of and trying to look interested and Lehman though he flapped about for the first two gaols saved the team from further embarassment and Traore for the only threatening pass of the game which Bendtner should have buried.

The boys have put in a lot of effort into the league and this was a game that noboy wanted to play. This game is for the video nasty’s vault.All we can take heart from is that no one sustained any new injurys and that we will lull Man U and AC Milan into a false sense of security and give them a stuffing when it counts.It seems lyk Alex Ferguson’s real intention to fly to South Africa after the Man City to purchase a few vodoo dolls to stick pins in has paid off for now. Enjoy your mastication for the nation moment for now Fergie.We have bigger fish to fry

By: Gooner4Life on February 17, 2008
at 11:29 am

French TV were saying yesterday that Sagna may not be back on wednesday. Apparently his brother just died.
T

By: Tokala on February 17, 2008
at 11:30 am

Stop blaming every body here. AW is the only one to blame. He always claims that he’s got qualities everywhere; but I don’t agree with him on that. Arsenal is the luckiest team at the moment to be at the top of the league.
I said this before the game that if he(AW) goes for Hoyte, Traore and Gilberto in that game, the “Spurs’s gate” (5-1) is after us. It’s in my answer of your previous preport.
Because these three players were the main reason we’ve got trushed by Spurs in CC.
But AW went for the repeat of the same mistake.
Kolo and Eboue are not having their best times at the moment due to the embarassment Ivory coast has been at the ANC. They are playing with a very low confidence. Even I advise AW to go with the pair Gallas/Senderos for the CL game against Milan.
This is my team formation before last night game.

Lehman.

Eboue- Gilberto-Kolo-Gallas.

Song- Flamini.

Eduardo- Fabregas- Hleb.

Bentner(ADE). 4-2-3-1. (with injury taken into account). I thought Song should have got better by now, because I really him at the moment, watching him at the ACN.

The only reallistic position Gilberto can play and do well at the moment at Arsenal is in center defense, because he still has got vision, game reading and he is still among our best players in one-on-one challenge; but he’s lost his speed and his passings have never improved.
Hoyte is one of our worse defenders AW would have never risked against the like of Nani or Ronaldo, because he gets into panic too quickly as he faces a tricky winger as Nani.
Traroe can’t perform well playing just one game after being on the bench for the next two or three months. This type of games simply terrosise him and I can’t blame him for not performing well.
I hope AW learns it hard way. I just couldn’t understand why Flamini, Adebayor and Senderos have joined in after the game was almost over, 3-0. It is all about team balance in football. You can’t reach team balance with Hoyte, Traore and Gilberto who is no longer the same player he was a season ago.
I hope this embarrassing defeat doesn’t affect the players on Wednesday.

By: lc on February 17, 2008
at 11:45 am

Lehmann being our man of the match when losing 4-0 sums up our day yesterday.

What annoyed me most was putting in Adebayor when you risk injuring him as well as ending his scoring streak in 2008!

As for the the effect of the game, I honestly believe it will end up being a good thing in the long term. Now we dont have any more distractions from the league AND we have no excuses.

By: Q - Arsenal Way on February 17, 2008
at 12:33 pm

thts where I thk fergie-scum is better than Wenger. He believes no individual is greater than the club. If wenger had used this proposition we wud hv seen the backs of eboue and gilberto in this window. Why keep them when all they bring to the team is shame and incompetency.

By: its beautiful on February 17, 2008
at 12:48 pm

I don’t think there was any intention to lose or play badly. Man U took the initiative from the start & in that form are capable of humiliating any team. Rooney was tremendous.

The team picked itself yesterday. The fittest played. The 3 subs were used to make sure Cesc, Hleb & Ed didn’t get injured & they could have 20 mins to exercise.

Anyone’s squad gets a bit thin with 11 absentees.

The common denominator in these hammerings has been the absence of Flamini & the full backs. Gilberto looks to me like he can only play in a 5 man midfield or at CB.

Positives are that, as far as we know, our key players are fit for AC Milan and if we can get back to form there shouldn’t be any fixture congestion. Let’s hope Man U get the Chavs & they have to replay. Also, that pitch could work against Man U later in the season. Did not look at all good.

What a tragedy for Sagna, puts a game of football in perspective.

Arsenal means a lot to all of us but sometimes we ought to remember, it is just a game that, more often than not, we win but occasionally the other team plays a lot better than us. It can happen, you know, without making us the worst team ever.

By: Flint McCullough on February 17, 2008
at 12:58 pm

Ic sums it up .. there is only one guy to blame and it is AW
you cant have it both ways .. either our squad is good enough or it isnt, in that case you buy the right players
slipping up twice in 2 months is not a statistical aberration anymore .. I wished that some of the so called die hard fans swallowing every type of soup that AFC feeds them would wake up to the NEW realities
you tell me how often ManU/Chelsea/Real/Barca/Milan etc lose by more than one goal..
there is a complete lack of respect for AFC supporters
Mr Wenger buys his players..he runs the club as he wishes..with Dein gone, nobody at the club gets involved the slightest in football matters any longer, ie there is no second opinion on nothing anymore
AFC are about to increase their season ticket prices.. you would hope that it is to buy new players
being top of the EPL is not enough to hide from the absurd shortcomings we have in our squad
AW has an amateur side to his management whilst at the same time, the club itself is turning into a corporate monster as per AFCTV, ticket prices, and in general in in its entire corporate communications approach
there are not many coaches in the G14 clubs that would get away with two back to back humiliations from their 2 biggest rivals
this season, the entire success depends on one man .. Adebayor with maybe the support of Flam/Sagna and Clichy
forget Cesc/Hleb etc .. long gone are the days since they played the football of the start of the season.. Cesc looks like he needs a break and Hleb has turned into the player of seasons’ past
as I said before on this blog, the problem with our young players is that we dont play them enough to improve
there are some of them that are short of quality to play for us .. first who springs to mind is Hoyte
he MUST go ..others will have to follow .. we buy too many young guys and its not posible for a club the size of Arsenal to bring logistically all these guys through at the same time
Barca are working on two guys right now..Bojan and Giovanni.. and thats enough
why do we need 10 of them while none of these boys has progressed over the last 2 seasons
Diaby is slipping .. Denilson has already..Bendtner is not good enough anway..Walcott/Traore .. they are young and have talent and need support.. but it adds up and now we have the next wave coming through already .. its too much and its not good for the kids either as we promise them a dream land that simply does not exist
Cesc played game after game in order to be where he is now.. none of the others comes even close to that..the system isnot working
Wenher should and must wake up to this .. Sagna was a fantastic purchase simply because he is the finished article..had Diaby stayed at Auxerre, he would have been on same way
in fact the entire deabte around English players leaving the club forlalck of opportunities, there will be hords of young foreign players leaving the club in the next 12 months..players who had their career ruined by AFC selling them the dream route to success
AFC is too big a club now to continue with this strategy..we need top class players
and lets not forget..some of the young plyaers that the Real/ManU/Milan clubs buy these days are far more expensive, ie talented than what AW buys..how much did ManU pay forNani/Anderson??
have a look at Pato when he comes to play with Milan ..
I dont think its necessary to comment on Gilberto/Eboue any longer..they should go
and it doesnt look good on Wenger that Diarra stayed for only 6 months
something in his management is not right
me personally I cant imagine that Dein would have been very happy with our last 2 club outings
and then lets see what the wednesday game brings about
dont forget that we are only playing Milan because AW got his teams wrong at Sevilla/Prague..oherwise it would have been Fenerbahce..
things are not that rosy

By: BB on February 17, 2008
at 1:12 pm

There are fewer more enjoyable sights around than watching Arrogant Arsenal get absolutely spanked. I loved the way Spurs tore apart their old enemy like a ragdoll last month with their 5 - 1 pounding and then yesterday was even more enjoyable. Man U absolutely wiped the floor with your kids.

I’ll tell you 1 thing in 50 years people will remember who won the carling cup, FA cup etc. They wont remember that Arsenal had these kids with such great potential. If I was an Arsenal fan I would be pissed off with Wenger’s policies. His team selection is baffling at times. Arsenal only have there selves to blame for not being in the carling cup final and arguably yesterday is also also down to the starting line up. You need to bring back George Graham I’d say. He understands what the fans really want. Silverware! Who gives a toss about the arsenal “kids”!!

By: Bob from the NorthEast on February 17, 2008
at 1:23 pm

Ps I can tell you now

ARSENAL ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THE LEAGUE.

By: Bob from the NorthEast on February 17, 2008
at 1:25 pm

“we got what we deserved - a good hiding”

YEP!

Bring on the dumping out of the league.

hehe

By: JohnDemetriou on February 17, 2008
at 1:26 pm

My support for Arsenal and football in general has been on the wane for a while. That performance yesterday has probably finished it for me. Why does Arsene prioritise competitions? The answer is the thing that has killed top level football, MONEY! In 1993 I was a 13 year old lad and the feeling I had when Arsenal won the two domestic cups that year was fantastic, it meant the world to me. We didnt prioritise cups then because glory meant more than money. Now its all about doing well in the Champions League to get the prize money and keep up with Chelsea, who killed football as we know it 5 years ago. Arsene sent his team out yesterday with a dont care attitude and in the process sold 9000 fans up the river who had paid good money and travelled a long way and suffered at the hands of United thugs who smashed up the coaches of Gooners when departing Old Trafford. Football fans can take losing if their team has played their hearts out and has pride in the shirt, the players didnt even try and were embarrasing. Did they want to even play the second half? It took them long enough to take to the pitch after half time. This is not a rant by a bitter fan or sour grapes, its just how ive been feeling about the game for a while. My sport watching now comes in the form of Rugby and Cricket which ive got into a lot and really enjoy. Football is no longer a source of enjoyment or pleasure for me, its not the same game anymore. Its a business now not a sport. I would like to finish this by asking one question. Do you all enjoy your football anymore?

By: Kev on February 17, 2008
at 1:31 pm

Yes, our injuries cotributed to the debacle - but I also think there is a psychological side as well. In this game as well as the CC against Spurs, we got thrashed. Why? The players pick up from the Manager that this is NOT a priority and it is ok to try to win or limit the damage.

You cannot do that to teams like ManU - they just eat you alive.

Hope this is as low as we get this season and that we bounce back in time for AC Milan. They had a draw on Saturday btw against Parma, 12 places below them in Serie A.

By: daokta on February 17, 2008
at 1:33 pm

Ic BB are you a relative of the female in the Frankie Howard show Doom doom doom. Get a grip, if the AFC is such a big disappointment to you why bother supporting the AFC. Real/ManU/Milan and Spuds are crying out for supporters join them. As for blaming the Boss, do you toilet paper to wipe your mouth with, because the crap coming out of it needs that sort of paper.

By: Old Timer on February 17, 2008
at 1:36 pm

“The team picked itself yesterday. The fittest played. The 3 subs were used to make sure Cesc, Hleb & Ed didn’t get injured & they could have 20 mins to exercise.”

Exactly Flint.

BB: you’re saying some absurd things. Hleb not playing well? He was man of the match on monday!

Perspective, people. We have a great team, a great mananger and a great club. Sometimes we get caught and get a spanking, I can live with that really. Rather have that than a lot of boring draws like Liverpool, who anyway went out of the cup against Burnsley, at home. We did it against ManU, away, with an injury depleted side. Not a crisis at all. We are OK.

Shame about Sagna, terrible news for him.

By: Non Edible Nacho on February 17, 2008
at 2:17 pm

NEN .. before you are calling other people’s arguments absurd, look at your own capabilities and if you have points to discuss, lets do it sequentially..
other than that, if the team picked itself yesterday, and it wasnt a junior side!, then the team isnt good enough..thats a fairly logical conclusion
that you can stomach 2 humiliations within a few weeks by our worst rivals means that you are either a coward or a moron..now you can choose which camp to be part of!

By: BB on February 17, 2008
at 2:37 pm

Shocking performance by the lads. It’s hard to find a silver lining in this. They were a disgrace to the uniform yesterday. I hope they can simply forget about it and move on. I know manure won’t. If there is one positive, and I’m reaching, it’s that the next time the two teams play Arsenal will be looking for a measure of revenge and manure will be somewhat complacent. That’s all I can see good out of this match.

Watched the Milan v Parma game yesterday on FSC. Milan were quite unlucky not to get a couple of goals. They looked good just couldn’t finish. Parma had some good chances too and it was a very exciting game. Parma played quite effectively in midfield denying Milan time and space in the first half and that allowed them to take the play to Milan. It’s a tactic that works well against us too. Milan will come to play for an away goal knowing the pressure is on Arsenal to win or not concede. This will be a very tough test even for a healthy squad. I expect a good showing…the team, whether you played on Saturday or not, needs to redeem itself.

By: gris gris on February 17, 2008
at 2:44 pm

“other than that, if the team picked itself yesterday, and it wasnt a junior side!, then the team isnt good enough..thats a fairly logical conclusion”

No it’s not. You’re making one of the poorest inductive arguments ever. One badly lost match is proof of a team not being good enough? What about the 26 league matches so far? Not good enough too? You’ll talk about depth, I’ll say I’m OK with what we have. We wouldn’t have had the two CC runs we had if our squad was so poor as you say. You can’t have two first teams. We are not Chelsea. Fans are really spoilt.

By: Non Edible Nacho on February 17, 2008
at 2:44 pm

That last post above this one proves my earlier points about football in general. You all spend so much time arguing about the game that you forget that it is just that, a game! Chill out people and enjoy the game, otherwise whats the point?

By: Kev on February 17, 2008
at 2:44 pm

Kev is right, too.

By: Non Edible Nacho on February 17, 2008
at 2:46 pm

A coward, a moron, or a balanced person maybe. Just maybe, sometimes. Like yesterday.

By: Non Edible Nacho on February 17, 2008
at 2:47 pm

I hope BB’s ok…notes written like that too often end with someone putting a gun in their mouth. Something I would be happy to suggest to Bob the wanker. Thanks for stopping by Bob; your concern for our team management is touching.

We played “lets hope” football yesterday, not a good idea against a team of that caliber, but I’m not sure what the better option was.

I mean, some serious credit has to be given ManU, they were maniacs in pursuit of possession and cool on the ball when they got it. Down 2 nil, heads dropped because there really WAS NO WAY for us to come back with that personnel.

I’m not one who thinks that 4-0 is that much worse than 2-0. You get points or you don’t.

I’ll be interested to see if they pull the same bullshit with the pitch next time. They watered the middle of the field before the game (then again at half time!) and channeled their attacks to expose our second string fullbacks on the outside. Clever indeed.

By: nolaboyd on February 17, 2008
at 2:56 pm

NEN .. may I just ask you what was exceptional about our CC run this season?
the 5-1 hammering at WHL??
just for one sec, get off the corporate ladder
AFC needs to win trophies every season, such is the standing of Arsenal these days.. and if they dont win, then they must have competed at least until the end
Arsenal should have a squad that competes in ALL competitions every season.. we drag 9K people to Manchester.. do you think that is fair??
and we do so because we market ourselves aggressively and very handsomely
Arsenal has not won a trophy in 4 seasons..and we dont bother turning up in the FA Cup at ManU!!!
stop apologizing for abject failure..it aint gonna work..the squad needs some heavy investment
you mention Hleb against Blackburn ..
his 1st half was poor..he played well in the 2nd, but being there with neutrals, none of the guys thought that Arsenal played well
fact is we are punching above our weight and we have already been exposed a few times this season..5-1 .. 4-0 .. what next?? and what other excuses?

By: BB on February 17, 2008
at 3:01 pm

Indeed.
We only deserved to lose.
I really find nothing to add. you have to take the good with the bad, and this time we had a giant serving of the bad.
we probably would have lost with the first choices anyway, if with a smaller margin. but the one thing that really irritated me was our mental strength.

I prefer not to judge on a game by game basis, but I suppose you can blame Wenger if that’s your way and you need someone to blame. He will certainly take the responsibility. But I’ve found people who are so quick to point the finger, are generaly the same that take our best performances for granted, and as our dues.

But Arsenal has no divine right to winning. you have to perform on the day. we didn’t yesterday.

What I found just as interesting is the number of haters that came out of the woodwork in the blogosphere, as if they’d been waiting for this with baited breath. Of course there are the usual small minded people that can’t be gracious in victory, or the occasional Spurs fan that is still savoring their win over us, and want us to know it, but a couple of blogs have comments for some serious Arsenal haters, that take their loathing seriously.
This really fascinates me. as I am interested in psychology. and I would love to study a sample population (I guess I am getting out of subject here)

Anyway I was gutted, but Curiously not as gutted as for the Carling cup exit. I am already looking forward to the Milan game. as one hater said above, history only remember winners. so let erase this memory with the title. keep it goonerish

By: Edengrave on February 17, 2008
at 3:17 pm

Some random observations on yesterday’s performance:-

1. Shame at Eboue’s foul and reluctance to leave the pitch
2. ditto at Adebayor’s dive
3. astonishment at ManU’s commitment
4. dismay at Arsenal’s lack of commitment
5. dismay at the state of the pitch

Arsene Wenger is the best manager we have ever had and I have 100% faith in him. He must have known that his public pronouncement prior to the match, that the FA cup was third on his list of priorities, would communicate itself to the players who would thus suffer a lack of focus and spirit. It was his bad luck that we met ManU in such good form.

He is largely to blame for the small squad although he can’t control injuries. He has been extremely prudent and astute, financially, which, for a club financing a new stadium, is admirable. He couldn’t stop Diarra leaving and if he buys big names (not that any are available) he will only be inviting more Diarra-type problems.

Although he would never admit it, I believe that he decided to sacrifice the FA Cup, for the benefit of our EPL and ECL campaigns.

It is easy to be a supporter when things are going well, as they have for most of this season. It is harder to be a supporter after the CC and FA exits. But, come on everybody, trust Arsene - Arsene knows!

And a special message to “Bob from the NorthEast”:-

F*ck off, Bob!

By: Kelsey Skirton on February 17, 2008
at 3:18 pm

we played badly without any care for the game whereas man u were pumped up to the max. their defeat last week clearly was a huge motivation as well as the fact they were playing Arsenal - I mean Rooney always looks like a man possessed when he plays against us.
wenger looked like a man who saw the draw and thought How can I get a fit a firing team together for the Milan game’, and that did not surprise me at all though it clearly was a shame for the travelling faithful.

Bad news for Sagna - feel really sorry for him. Brothers normally have a very strong bond. only he knows whether he has any chance whatsoever of playing on wednesday. he wont have trained, so we may have to go with either Hoyte or Eboue or even Toure with Sendy and Gallas at centre back.

what we also need on Weds is for Cesc to find some form!

By: gazzap on February 17, 2008
at 4:50 pm

isnt it about time clubs can opt out of the domestic cups because if the players cant be arsed with them then why should we fans have to go and watch heartless performances and take the stick from opposing fans once we get humiliated.

By: dukeGoonem on February 17, 2008
at 5:23 pm

What good comments from Kelsey, Edengrave, OT & NEN & Gazzap.

BB you are clearly 1 of these people, where everything will never be enough. You are incapable of reasonable expectation & lack any vision

Our 2nd string beat 2 PL teams, reach the SF but that is not a cup run?

If anyone has a corporate attitude it must surely be you, BB.

Bob, when 1 of your teams actually compete for even a place in the top half of the table, perhaps you
would be kind enough to come back to gloat again.

By: Flint McCullough on February 17, 2008
at 5:34 pm

Here comes the doom and gloom energizer bunnies…..

You can’t even see that the team played yesterday is a team that gave great performances before. The question is, if they knew the FA cup was 3rd priority….why not give a decent performance and get out looking good? Is there something more to it than just an overwhelming bad performance?

Gilberto - Cesc, is currently a lethal combination for defeat in midfield, especially if Cesc is not feeling well. There were not too many choices, with 11 players are out for various reasons.

4/0 is bad result, It would have been easier to swallow even if we went there with a well organized defensive plan and got out in a decent way…
I hope we will see some of our injured miraculously come back for our game with Milan.

I don’t think there is more room for games like this in the remaining competitions.

G4E

By: Gunner4Ever on February 17, 2008
at 6:59 pm

The responses on here are the same as after the Spurs game. We desrved both results, however, after Spurs we have gone on to a 5 point lead. If you listen to BB, we might as well pack up and demolish the Emirates. Gooners? goons more like. Yesterday was shite, we deserved it but we’ll move on. Come the league game at OT, don’t you think yesterday will contirbute to their motivation whilst United may take the result for granted. I’m more confident we”ll get a result up there now

By: Jamie on February 17, 2008
at 7:02 pm

Flint .. as long as you enjoy humiliations .. good on you .. other people have more pride .. you chase people off this blog because they dont comply with the “everything is perfect” attitude that you display
unfortunately events on the pitch tend to tell a different story
its not every season that our two biggest rivals play us off the pitch and count themselves unfortunate to only score 4 or 5 goals
if thats a satisfying outcome for you, then so be it but surely you would recognize that “reasonable expectation” should be a tiny bit higher, shouldnt it?
as far as the CC win our Blackburn is concerned, 2 players stood out .. Eduardo and Diarra..as far as I know, none of them was a CC profile player, unless when we pay 7.5MM for a guy, we would qualify him as such
Diarra .. well well .. different story .. luckily we got Gilberto!!

By: BB on February 17, 2008
at 7:05 pm

Did I hear right, that the groundsman was watering the pitch, which looked waterlogged. United are good players, surely they don’t need underhand tactics like that

By: Jamie on February 17, 2008
at 7:08 pm

I predicted 4-0 when I saw the lineup becuase the full backs are green and the midfield was crocked and had Gilberto (same as spurs game). Man u should have scored 10, but couldnt.

Obviuosly the squad is too thin to challenge on all fronts and the FA Cup is lowest priority.

The question is how do you maintain a tight group of players that click as well as have quality back ups- look what happened with Diarra, a month ago there was no way in to the team, saturday we could have used him big time.

Its a risk of Wengers style and transfer policy and maybe one day he’ll have a squad big enough with established players come up from the ranks, but untill then feburary is always going to be a disapointing month.

Still, I belive we’ll bounce back 2 fronts is easier than 4. Come on you gooners.

By: seattlegooner on February 17, 2008
at 7:41 pm

I find it funny when guys are quick to excuse every huge defeat we suffer. The problem for most of us on the “other side” is the degree of pounding. Nobody ( BB included am sure) will be shouting if we lost 1-2 , or even 3-1, but to be thrashed so badly is what we cannot accept… especially for a club this big. We can blame it on injuries, thin side etc, but surely AW had opportunities to strenghten the side in January, when it was clear that our 2nd eleven were not good enough.

Its easy not to see anything wrong in a team and to bash the critics and to smooth over any sign of problem. I think for a cerebral fan, nothing is off-limits, including criticizing Mr. Wenger and that should not call for any harrassement from guys who think all is honky dory. Neither should it warrant asking them to take a hike to Spurs or chelsea.

By: confidentgoner on February 17, 2008
at 7:58 pm

This is to all arsenal supporters. We dont need to tear our team to pieces each time we lose. This is just a game. Would ManU give yesterdays game in exchange for where we are in the league today? I think so. Soccer is like this. Sometimes team get a thrashing–it happens. Losing 4 nil was going to be the same as losing 1 nil. The point is we’re out of the cup. Does that suddenly make arsenal the worst team in the world? I think not. And all that criticism of AW is uncalled for. C’mon folks. We’re better than this. Lets love our team, support it and believe in the boys. Remember we were not conscripted. We are voluntary supporters and we share a passion for the team–not for winning every game. 4 nil hurt, but thats not the end of the world. We still have each other!!

By: gunzim on February 17, 2008
at 8:25 pm

Jamie you make very sensible points, your view on watering the pitch is not new now in the Premiership.
The groundstaff at the Emirates regularly water the ground before every game and at half time as well.
It does make for a quick passing game as the ball does travel better and quicker over wet grass whereas its more difficult on harder ground.
Your right it does beg the question whereby does a team gain an advantage but it does seem to be the trend at a lot of grounds now.

By: veteran on February 17, 2008
at 8:27 pm

thanks confidentgoner..sometimes this blog feels like the worst days of Stasi brainwashing
and totally agreed, nothing should be off limits
not only do I think that AW should have reinforced his squad, but I also think that there is something fundamentally wrong in his approach towards buying young players .. I want to point out again that only Cesc enjoed the full “play every game” treatment until he became the player we know he is today or at least he was until he got injured
we need competition in the squad..not guaranteed places
Cesc has been so off form recently that he should have been benched
using Diarra’s leaving as an excuse for not wanting competition is an aberration.. he was most likely sold a dummy by AW and realized that it wasnt possible to achieve what he had been told
ManU play Carrick/Hargreaves for same spot .. do you hear them moaning all the time..
we are a bigger club now than we were 10 years ago..our corporate management knows that as they strived to get us there
now we need that on the pitch as well
Dein recognized this and whatever direction he used or tried to use to achieve this, he saw this coming
I repeat myself .. these 2 defeats are NOT a statistical blip any longer .. there is a profound malaise underneath the surface
and being 5 points clear in the league should not distract us too much from it!!

By: BB on February 17, 2008
at 9:05 pm

Avram,Fergie and all their players get slammed on Chelsea or ManU blogs. Nuff said!

By: confidentgoner on February 17, 2008
at 9:35 pm

So far we have played 42 games. W30 D8 L4. Scored 88 goals and conceded 34. I think Mr Wenger must be doing something correct.

By: Steve on February 17, 2008
at 9:55 pm

veteran
i know we water the pitch but this is to enhance passing, the pitch always looks immaculate. The Ot pitch looked waterlogged, the question is why? Was it to slow our game down? It’s no excuse for our performance but united are capable of beating us without waterlogging the pitch

By: Jamie on February 17, 2008
at 10:52 pm

Confidentgoner,
to be honest these poxy performances and results are easier to swallow than 2-2 draw with Rooney diving for a penalty and Sol getting sent off, and 2-0 to end the run on 49. They were harder to take. This seasons defeats have been so bad as to be able to pass off as freak results, the previous ones weren’t.

By: Jamie on February 17, 2008
at 10:55 pm

BB,
being 5 points clear should not detract from the underlying malaise. Yer havin’ a laff

By: Jamie on February 17, 2008
at 10:58 pm

Check out this poll:http://soccernet.espn.go.com/et/managers/rating?id=5&cc=3888

Interesting isn’t it? Even at the start of the season when were close to perfect, fans couldn’t reach a consensus. It really boggles the mind that in the midst of our unbeaten run, some people though Wenger wasn’t doing a good job. you can’t please everyone when you are doing great. It’s only normal you can please even fewer people when the results are against you.

It takes all kinds.
in any group of people, there are optimists, pessimists, neutrals. all consider themselves realists. we don’t have to agree as its most probable we share very little beyond supporting this team anyway. So I find these arguments nothing but an exercise in futility.

If There is a sport that could be termed visceral, it’s this one. that’s why I find the expression “Cerebral fan” suspect. As opposed to what kind of fans?

Given the present situation, I consider myself an optimist. Even when I have to work hard at it I try to remain positive. I’ve found negativity doesn’t help me. but I won’t try to convert anyone. to each his own.

I disagree with people that say things like: We shouldn’t lose this way, because we are a big club. that’s sheer arrogance. we shouldn’t lose this way because this Arsenal team can do a heck of a lot better. full stop.

Having a distinguished history, or having big financial muscles compared to the less fortunate clubs, doesn’t entitle you to anything on the pitch.

for the rest if we can’t take what we dish out often enough with dignity, lets at least pretend to.

I agree with BB nothing is off limit. But once somebody has earned your respect and proved he merits your faith, he doesn’t suddenly lose it and become the root of all problems. So when you disagree, as I have often enough in the past, and have to criticize, temper it with respect. it’s not easy out there.

By: Edengrave on February 17, 2008
at 11:08 pm

Ethan sorry BB or should I say confidentgoner, you seem to say almost the same thing are you the same person?? Brainwashed you bet i am brainwashed all I see is Arsenal sorry but thats the way I am, love the club love the team and I know we have the best manager ever. Love your comments keep them coming helps when I feel constipated.

By: Old Timer on February 17, 2008
at 11:16 pm

Jamie, yes trhe pitch was slowed down purposely so I guess they need all the help they can get.

As for some of the other stuff written above it beggars belief. Who is the guy who has had enough?. What sort of fan are you?. I grew up supporting Newport County in the old Div 3 [South]. They lost more than they won but I loved the excitement and still remember the games fondly.

I live too far away to watch Arsenal but I would go to every game if I could. You don’t know how lucky you are if you get to the Emirates regularly.

By: Stuart on February 17, 2008
at 11:23 pm

Ethan is here??!! Which one is he…….The man with many names, but not one ounce of vision.

We got beaten 4/0 by our arch rivals, it hurts….I wish it didn’t happen, but it did. Tough luck…too bad….Get on with it. Don’t sack the Manger. Don’t hang the players.

We all deal with frustration at different levels, but the mid point is we had a bad game, we need to win the next. With the same manager and many of the same players. We have 11 good players injured, I think 25 good, fit squad is enough to win the title, yes you know you’ll have some injuries…but not 11.

Ethan, wherever you are….Ade says Hi !!

G4E

By: G4E on February 17, 2008
at 11:54 pm

All said and done …….its time to say AMEN to our lord Jesus because Arsenal has 11 fit players ready to face Milan. In management you have to learn from the ups and downs of business. When you employ the right strategies you make profits and losses vice versa. AFc as a big club has the money to buy the class players to progress on and win more silverware in the years to come.

Criticism and whinning will not help our team and they should just get focused to win the league and beat Milan to proceed on.

Eboue and Gilberto should go and Wenger should seriously buy Quaresma/Palladino/Boruc.
Any time i have seen Gilberto in our line up i obviously know that we are going to lose. It’s either he’ll play a pass to an opposition player or lose the ball.

Wenger if you are reading this blogg you should sell Giberto ASAP ( as soon as possible ) and loan out Eboue or sell him- he is a disgrace.

Personally i will not turn down Arsenal to support anothe r team and the loss is a blessing in disguise and i would wish Man U meet Chelsea in the next team. Such games will likely lead both teams to incurring some injuries and give us the advantage. After the Manu U game Arsenal should now set their targets high not to lose any other game till May 2008.

By: ArsenalKenya on February 18, 2008
at 7:43 am

There was another aspect to your performance that was unsettling, and that was the breakdown of discipline.

If all it takes is for Nani to do a few keepy-uppy’s for your boys to lose their heads and risk three game bans when the treatment tables are already occupied…that’s not great management, both on and off field.

That said, the Milan keeper, Kalac, dislocated a finger yesterday. Time to fire the ball at him and put him under pressure.

And for all of your whingeing, Jeez, a manager who gets it wrong a couple of times. You could have Benitez, Or Keegan. Instead you have a manager who has won it all except the CL. Do you think he wants the FA Cup? Of course not. He’s better off out of it, and if you do not recognise that, yer fools.

You’ll have a monstrouse war chest next year, you’ll be in the CL and maybe Champions this year.

And you still whinge. PATHETIC.

By: beedie on February 18, 2008
at 8:35 am

It’s amazing that these non-fans actually find the time to go onto blogs and annoy people. Go and do something else instead if you don’t like it, there’s a world of DIY out there, go and enjoy it.

Kev, thanks for all your contributions, you’ll be a huge loss to the world of football, go and enjoy cricket, you’ll have a whale of a time with the other 12 supporters, but your heart will be content knowing that you’re not feeding a vile corporate machine (the corporate machine that the cricket authorities would bite their arm off to attract if they could). In answer to your question, yes I do enjoy my football, very much thankyou, and no, it’s not just a game, that’s what women say to their desperate partners following 4-0 defeats, not supporters, you woman you.

There’s one thing that does seperate football from life, and that’s death, so tragedy for Sagna, and you wouldn’t have thought any chance that he would be expected to make an appearance for Milan. That leaves a big hole obviously, because that fella, along with Flamini, is a real man, and was desperately missed on Saturday. It’s a hole that must be filled in a sensible manner then, and for me, in neon lights, there is only one answer to this, Toure at right-back, Senderos in the middle. Another appearance from Hoyte and we’ll be out of the Champions League. We’re going to need every man we’ve got back there, and on Saturday’s form, Senderos is some way ahead of Toure right now, so deserves the CB position. I hope Arsene can resist the temptation to play Eboue back there, because that guy is in no mental shape to hold down any position in a vital champions league match.

By: hboy on February 18, 2008
at 8:47 am

Hboy.Your pathetic short sighted comments really p*ssed me off. You say I wont be a loss to the world of football, thats where youre wrong. REAL fans like me will be a loss to the game and are leaving the game in droves due to being forced away from the club we love by moneymen. Reasons for this include high ticket prices, corporate scum mercanary johnny come lately fans getting tickets. You are a customer to Arsenal, your not a fan. You say you enjoy this money making business which masquerades as a sport!? Then good luck to you. High and mighty idiots like you get on my nerves. People are allowed an opionion you know, just because it is different to yours doesnt make it wrong. You also speak of “non-fans” having too much time on their hands on these blog sites. Well, it looks like youve found some time on your hands to come on here so does that make you a “non-fan” too. Youre a hypocrite.

By: Kev on February 18, 2008
at 5:46 pm

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