Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | January 22, 2008

Spurs Need To Win But Who Wants It More Will Be The Key

On the eighty-first anniversary of the BBC’s first live football broadcast, a one-all draw between Arsenal and Sheffield United in 1927, the abundant flow of matches televised live continues at White Hart Lane this evening in the second leg of the Carling Cup Semi Final.

It is an interesting contrast in the fortunes of the two clubs in recent decades that the match appears to mean significantly more to Tottenham fans than to those of Arsenal. Not that they care more about their team, simply that the League Cup is the lesser of the four fronts upon which Arsenal are challenging this season. You wonder how much longer that will last with the continual degradation of the FA Cup’s importance over recent years, the procession of top four clubs winning the trophy diminishing interest as the season wears on.

Having received a minor knock on Saturday at Fulham, Philippe Senderos is unavailable and William Gallas will lead the team out. Who partners him in the centre is subject to much conjecture. The options appear to be Gilberto or Justin Hoyte, possibly his brother Gavin or Bacary Sagna. Having deputised well in the second half of the first leg, Justin Hoyte seems the more likely to be centre half, particularly now that Lassana Diarra can no longer fill the defensive midfielder role.

With two matches against Newcastle coming in quick succession, Mathieu Flamini could play there this evening and next Tuesday leaving Gilberto to perform the role on Saturday although Arsene commented yesterday,

I will rotate the squad which means those that didn’t play on Saturday will play at Tottenham and after that I will complete it with first-team players. I will use William Gallas because I have no choice but Fabianski will play, Hoyte will play and the players that didn’t play against Fulham will all play. Walcott will feature as well

Fabianksi had plenty to say ahead of tonight’s game,

We were losing at home, and before we scored the equaliser we didn’t have many chances. It didn’t look like we could get a goal, so perhaps the tie switched at the moment Theo scored. Our young team showed again that of course we have a high technical level, but also we have a great character. With the character we have, we have to be optimistic going into the second leg. We have to prepare well

If the competition is suffering a poor reputation amongst the fans, it should not be forgotten that for the younger players it is a chance of a medal and an appearance at Wembley much earlier in their careers than they might otherwise expect,

All I am thinking about at the moment is my next aim – to beat Spurs and get into the final at Wembley. Yes, that’s a dream, but I just want to play more games, wherever that is, so that means winning the semi-final. Of course, though, Wembley means something special, everybody knows about it. It just gives me another reason to want to win the semi-final

The Polish international has done well in the Cup games this season, boosting his confidence and reputation in much the same way that Manuel Almunia did. Whether he will be ready to challenge for a first team spot next season remains to be seen and indeed is a question that can be answered another day.

In midfield, Arsene gave an indication as to what to expect,

On the bench you might find a high number of players who have played a lot of Premier League games. Cesc could be involved. Last year at White Hart Lane [in the first leg of the semi-final] he became very influential when we were 2-0 down and gave strength in midfield and quality in the final third to help us come back [to 2-2]. We always have that kind of belief when we go over there. It’s a semi-final and, even when you’re down, you just have to go for it.

It seems that who will partner Bendtner up front and the midfield are inextricably linked. On current form, Eduardo ought to be the choice for strike partner and had Robin van Persie not been out, I am pretty sure that the Croat would have started. As it is, I suspect it will be Walcott who starts there. This leaves a vacancy on the right of midfield. Arsene could opt for Diaby and play Gibbs on the left although the recent cup tie at Burnley suggests it will be Randall on the right and Diaby the other flank with Denilson and Gilberto in the middle.

My team for tonight would be all first teamers but it will not happen so expect to see something like,

Fabianski; Sagna, Hoyte (J), Gallas, Traore; Randall, Denilson, Gilberto, Diaby; Walcott, Bendtner

With a bench of

Mannone, Hoyte (G), Fabregas, Eduardo, Lansbury

An indication of the importance that tonight’s hosts put on the game is shown by Jermaine Jenas and Michael Dawson whilst Ian Wright believes Tottenham will win, pointing out that the tournament means more to them and Everton, than it does to Arsenal and Chelsea. To be honest, anything less than a Tottenham win will put them into crisis. Not freefall in the League but the sort of mental process that defines ‘winners’ from ‘also-rans’. Their ‘need’ to win creates more pressure than a cup semi-final would have. It is this that may yet prove their undoing, fear playing a big part in their performance. Not fear of an opponent, fear of losing can inhibit even the best players, let alone those who currently play for Tottenham.

They should be considered favourites and ought to win given the experience they are expected to field. An Arsenal defeat will mean nothing much in the scheme of the season given the changes to the team fielded. Perhaps more important is the indications garnered this evening about the readiness of players such as Traore, Denilson and Randall to compete on a regular basis for first team action.

Enjoy the match wherever you watch it. ‘til Tomorrow.


Responses

  1. Good posts and valid points as always, though Randall has impressed I can’t see him starting. If we could get the Spurs into a crisis-spiral then a win would be all the more satisfying indeed.

  2. Yogi.

    Win is a win. Its not important who wants it more. If we put a lesser team it doesnt mean we have excuse to lose it. Arsene should put a team which is capable of beating spurs be it 1st choice or 2nd. Am sure Chealsea would do that. Losing the winning momentum against spurs isnt good idea. And I just fear that they are approaching this very seriously, so should we. The approach is what matters.

    I think Eduardo will partner bentner..theo or right

  3. Randall and Gavin Hoyte played for the reserves last night so they will not feature.

    If Cesc plays, Denilson could be pushed out to the right where he has done a good job in the past. The Cesc/Diaby/Denilson combination in the midfield worked really well in the CC final.

    Also, whilst I agree that losing this game has less meaning than losing in the PL or CL, I still think a win would be better to maintain our overall momentum.

  4. Hleb will start on the right of the formation. Mark my words.

    For one, Randall played 90 minutes yesterday (or was it Sunday?) for the reserves. He’ll likely be on the bench ahead of Lansbury, but not in the starting 11.

    With Gilberto likely to start as CM and fill in as a defensive backup just in case, I think we will see 100% offense on the bench. With Cesc, Eduardo, Randall and Adebayor all the

  5. Imust commend ur articles,they are always very concise and objective,though u r a gooner.I thnk Wenger should takee tnites game very serious bcos this current team needs to win a trophy of wateva shape to boost thier confidence,am sure Gallas wldnt mind

  6. I’m not going to speculate too much on the team selection, I think we will need someone more creative in midfield and Wenger may have to play one more of the 1st team players to balance the team.

    If Randall is not available, then maybe Eduardo on the left side of midfield, Gilberto DM, pushing Diaby into center midfield, and Denilson on the right, with Walcott & Bendtner upfront. I’m not sure that Eduardo would provide enough defensive coverage for Traore though.

    It is going to be tough, this is the Spuds season saver and I think they’ll do everything possible to win the game. I think finishing will be crucial in this game, the team able to finish their chances well, will win. If the Spuds go all out for attack, we may be able to use Eduardo’s or Diaby’s ability to release Walcott on the counter-attack….Denilson on the right, may be able to provide a few good crosses from the right to Bendtner’s head.

    Although, it may not be the end of the world for us…it is still great for this young team to reach the final for the second season in a raw and a great boost for them.

    Good luck to the young Gunns.

    G4E

  7. An Arsenal defeat will mean nothing much in the scheme of the season given the changes to the team fielded.

    Maybe means nothing to you !

    but any chance for silverware MUST be taken seriously , listening to you wish we lose is bordering lunacy .. And the rest of you Stating beating spurs means nothing ! YOU have to be kidding ..

    You say i’m a traitor ! You Don’t care about beating spurs ??? no silverware for 4 years now and to listen to you all its not surprising if we don’t win anything for another 4 years !
    At least arsene is more serious about it , like i suggested , gallas will play and more seniors
    will be present .. So thank god he’s running proceedings and not you lot !

    We are surrounded by easy games currently, to lose this with the game parameters that are in front of us is just a testament to the squads LACK of depth ! Watching a interview on
    ‘football up close’ with kolo toure it is obvious arsene is after the CL tournament . So given that thought process , we should see our youngsters play more in the EPL during those stages ?? !

    The same mentality applies !
    All cups and silverware should be valued equally .
    one minute you all say we have the best squad in the WORLD then you say we will get pipped off by spurs !

    hahaha .. jokers !

  8. I’d be surprised if Walcott didn’t start up front tonight with Bentdner – I hope Arsene’s words earlier in the week ended his attempt to make him a winger. I expect the worm has turned and Walcott will be used exclusively as a forward.

    Most have touted Gilberto at CB tonight, but I don’t think anyone should dismiss the rumours of his refusal to play in that position, despite it making absolute sense that he play in that position, I’m quite sure he won’t. It’s a double-blow because he will join the central midfield where he’s playing appallingly – we could be watching Diaby playing in his natural position alongside Denilson. I expect Hoyte to play alongside Gallas tonight at CB, personally I’d play Sagna at CB who looks to have the ability to make an excellent makeshift CB to me.

    Finally, watched the reserves game last night, and one thing that struck me is that it’s quite dangerous that all those games will be shown live now. This reserves side is a place for players to learn and grow. I found some of our play frustrating, but I realise that these are very raw talents, I hope the fact that these games get shown, doesn’t breed a new form of forum-idiot who bemoans players before they’ve ever made a first team appearance. That said, I enjoyed the game, and we look to have a bunch of excellent talents coming through. Nordveidt, Thomas, Sunu, Watt and Evina all look to have great potential.

  9. I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN PLAYING OUR FIRST TEAM TONIGHT, IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. All sensible Arsenal fans have been fascinated to see our youngsters playing in these matches, that is the interest for us. This is the worthless cup, but by playing our youngsters, we’ve made it very worthwhile. What was of no interest, has turned to tremendous interest, excitement and pride.

  10. You are really from another planet Ethan. Stupid people’s planet.

    Who is wishing to lose to the Spuds??

    Probably the only one wishing we lose is you, so you can say you were right and we were wrong. You know, I was going to ignore you but I will not.

    You come here every day and shove your pathetic words in our minds and put words in our mouth and want any one to follow you or your stupid thoughts.

    You will always be a pathetic lonely man, who needs help, psychiatric help that is….if you don’t get it. Pray that mental health is free wherever you are, because you’ll need lots of it for a prolonged time…and still that may not help.

    G4E

  11. its impossible to guess right..as arsene will come up with some combination no body will expect..

    it cud be mix of few regulars..may be hleb or cesc cud get a game..upfront..bendtner and dudu..i have a feeling diaby will play central along with denilson..and theo again on right..no randall or gibbs for me…

  12. would WHL be too much to handle for young Gibbs? I dont know, but I think he might do a better job than Diaby on the left wing. I think either Diaby or Cesc have to play the creative role. If its Gilberto and Den the pair lack any creativity that will mean lots of pressure on our back four.
    I agree with Hboy that the defence will be Sagna, Hoyte, Gallas and Traore.
    Midfield I think will be Walcott, Gilberto, Den, Diaby with EDS and Bendtner up front. The midfield that I just wrote is not good enough to win this game. wenger has to make a change from the last game where we were over-run.

  13. After all the talk of how strong we’ve been at left back over the years, I see that as potentially one of our weakest positions tonight. Traore was poor in the FA cup game against Burnley and though I know he can play better than that, if he doesn’t and if whoever plays at left wing doesn’t help him out it could be a soft spot tonight.

    I dont think he’ll play many regulars, bar the enforced ones (ie Gallas), but I hope he has a few on the bench just in case we need them.

  14. gazzap,

    i agree denilson with gilberto doesnt work for me..gilberto in defence and diaby in middle with denilson is what it cud be..if cesc plays then denilson on left…if hleb plays then in right..theo will continue on right side..so

    fabianski
    hoytegallasgilbertotraore
    theo diaby cesc/denilson/hleb
    dudu/bendtner

    how does it look…will this beat spurs..looks like it can..i wont bet against penalties win for us today..not ideal but cud happen..

  15. Before the reserve game last night, Neil Banfield mentioned that Gibbs was ill, so i doubt he will figure tonight, which is a shame.

    Its a tough one to figure out the team for tonight – but it will be interesting, thats for sure.

    Ethan – none of us want to lose to Spurs, and of course, it would be brilliant to beat them, and get to the final.

    What we all mean is that we have very little to lose, we win = brilliant. We lose – well, rather lose this one than the league games.

    At the moment – we are competing on all 4 fronts – and if we have to lose one – then this is the one.

    Nobody is wishing us to lose – i am going tonight, and i dont want to be walking out of the shit hole to see loads of deluded spurs fans jumping around like they have won the world cup – thats for sure!

  16. midfield and strikers could be:
    Den Bert Cesc Diaby
    Walcott Bendtner

    might work but would still prefer to get Bert out of midfield altogether and diaby does not offer Traore anywhere near enough protection.

    My preferred is
    fabianski
    hoyte gallas gilberto traore
    Hleb Diaby Den Gibbs
    Walcott bendtner

    ie no Dudu or Cesc.

  17. well if Gibbs is ill then Diaby is almost certain to start at Left wing in front of Traore. he needs to up his game from last time. You could still have Den and Cesc in the middle, but its looking increasingly likely that it will be Bert and Den, which for me is the worst pair.

  18. Gazzap I think Cesc should be on the bench and only come on for a short period, and Randall and Landsbury should play a part. Gavin Hoyte is suspended Sagna should be on the bench. We cant risk too many first team plaers getting injuries as happened with RVP.

  19. Solgooner –

    Randall played last night – so cant imagine he will play tonight as well.

  20. Randall played last night as did Gavin Hoyte who got sent off. Randall wont play two nights in a row. Gibbs is ill so that leaves Lansbury by my reckoning and I doubt he will get a game because he plays as a central midfielder and we do have lots of those available (den, Gilberto, Diaby and even Cesc). so I dont really see any of the youth players coming in. I think Traore is not really in that category anymore, he seems to have moved closer to the level of say Hoyte and Denilson.

  21. Looks like it will be a pretty strong team – squad announced –

    2 Abou DIABY
    3 Bacary SAGNA
    4 Cesc FABREGAS
    9 EDUARDO
    10 William GALLAS
    13 Alexander HLEB
    15 DENILSON
    16 Mathieu FLAMINI
    19 GILBERTO
    21 Lukasz FABIANSKI (GK)
    25 Emmanuel ADEBAYOR
    26 Nicklas BENDTNER
    30 Armand TRAORE
    31 Justin HOYTE
    32 Theo WALCOTT
    40 Vito MANNONE (GK)

  22. Arsene has named a pretty strong squad for the game tonight, with plenty of first team players in it, which is a measure of how seriously he is taking the game and of how much he wants to both beat Spurs & reach the final too.

    I feel much more confident about us getting a result tonight, although on the other hand there’s the potential for more first teamers to get injured, but then, injuries can occur at any time.

    Go Gunners, go!

  23. I expect to see:

    Fabianski
    Hoyte
    Sagna
    Gallas
    Traore
    Gilberto
    Denilson
    Hleb
    Diaby** time he did something special!
    Bendtner
    Walcott

    Mannone, Adebayor, Fab4, EDS, Flamini.

    I’m glad AW has decided to go all out for this. It is time we won “another” trophy since the Emirates cup!

  24. Magneto it will be interesting to see how many first team players Arsene starts. A gut feel tells me the likes of Cesc, Alex and Ade will be on the bench and brought on only when needed. It will be interesting to see who he plays and in what position.

  25. Very interesting.

    I was wondering who would play wide right so it looks like Hleb will start the game. I hope Spurs play a high line because Theo will destroy them. Especially with Hleb sliding passes through.

  26. I am personally disappointed with the line up. We need to give people like Randall, Lansbury , Gibbs and etc more experience. I am trembling now if Gallas is risked for this worthless cup. Some one had said the approach is important not the the selection altough soem may argue the selection of players determine the approach. I am sure he will play as many players that have not been playing regularly.
    Fabianski, Traore, Gallas, Hoyte, Sagna Diaby Denilson, Gilberto, Hleb, EDS, and Bendtner. With the rest on the bench

    So we are risking Gallas, Hleb, and Sagna in this CC semi final.

    We should have put on Gavin for Sagna and interchange with his brother as both can play center half and full back.
    Gibbs and Randall should have been played and leave Hleb out completely.

    As for Gallas I can see the logic of using him as then his experience and leadership is important in trying to win this one if possible.

    Up the Arse!!!

  27. Veteran,

    I suspect you are right in that Adebayor, Fabregas & Hleb will probably start on the bench, and only brought on if required, along with Sagna.

    Hopefully Flamini’s battling & tackling qualities, along with his drive and sheer will to win, will be on the pitch in central midfield alongside Denilson.

    If this is the case then Gilberto may line up next to Gallas in defence, with Hoyte on one side & Traore on the other.

    Bendtner and Eduardo should be the front pair; I expect Diaby & Walcott to fill their usual wide berths, with Fabianski in goal.

    We can win this tie if the team perform well.

    Come on Arsenal!

  28. I like the squad, can’t wait to see the team.

  29. hey thats cheating, Arsenal have got too many good players in the squad!!!!

    lets wait to see the team because I think 4 of the strongest players will actually be on the bench (Cesc, Flam, EDS and Ade). But as I said earlier I will know how we will do when I learn whether or not its Gilberto and Denilson in the middle!

  30. Yes gazzap, be sure 4 first team players will be on the bench. They’re not in the squad to start, except the ones that are there to fill holes (like Gallas, and a couple more that will be needed for that, possibly Hleb and Sagna).

  31. personally i have no interest in seeing our best pleyers on the bench and coming on when we get in trouble. we should be as hungry as they are to win and need to win a trophy as much as they do. as far as i am concerned our 1st team players have played about twice in three weeks and should be playing this evening. it is commendable to play all the kids but i think a balance of the two is required. a midfield of diaby, gilberto, denislon and walcott ARE going to struggle again tonight. i don’t know about you lot but i have no interest in seeing us lose a semi final against spurs, especially when we can ceratinly beat them with some 1st team players. i would like to see at least fabregas and helb play in midfield with diaby and denilson. i have no problem with walcott and bendnter up front.

    i just find this attitude that we have nothing to lose attitude as complete garbage. to me if we wanted to win it why not play more first team players in the first game. if you are going to throw it then why not have a bench full of youngsters again like in the 1st leg. it is a bit of a tease really.

    hopefully we still beat them.

  32. And when we have a couple of our best player’s legs broken, the same people will come back and say why the hell did we play them.

    Spuds, will do anything to win….because it’s their last hope to salvage something from this horrible season for them….We have a lot to lose, if we lost some of our best players for a CC.

    Yes we want to compete for every trophy big & small, but we always play young players in this competition, so why are we so paranoid now?

    G4E

  33. Its a pity we didnt use a few first team players in game 1 then we could have been more relaxed tonight

  34. you can break legs in training and in any game. the players haven’t played much recently and one could argue as in the brum game that maybe they have been playing too little and need to get back in to their stride again. if this game was a month ago i would agree but as of now there is no reason not to be playing them. who knows what sort of team we will play in the FA cup as well. we threw that last year as well by not playing our best players.

    i agree about the paroid statement, but it is against spurs one and secondly as i said what i don’t get is, why now bring in 1st team players now, clearly wenger doesn’t care about the CC so why change in the 2nd leg of a semi final against spurs at white hart lane? it doesn’t make sense, if he now suddenly cares then start the players and lets completely go for it, not half arsed by bringing them on with 20 minutes to go when we are going out. i find that more frustrating than just playing the kids in the team and on the bench

  35. the only person i wouldn’t have risked was gallas, but obviously no choice due the injuries.

  36. You have a point Dan, but I think a balanced team should be enough to beat an average Spuds based on their form this season.

    So while, I would not in any form or shape would like to lose to the scums, I still think we need to protect our most effective players that we can’t currently replace if they get injured.

    An injury in training there is nothing you can do about because players have to train, but you have the choice to rest players in some games if the manager think he can win without risking them…..Remember Robert Peres?.

    G4E

  37. I think you got your answer there in the first half Yogi

    It looks like the Spuds want it more

    Generally I dont think we have played too bad, but we don’t look like scoring and the Spuds look dangerous everytime they come forward

    I think I would change it half time, Gilberto off Flamini on, and maybe give it ten mins and get Eduardo on the LW. Diaby is getting loads of the ball but as ever he is so one footed it just does not work. I wish we had played Gibbs, Randall or Lansbury tonight.

    needs a big 2nd half…..Come On Arsenal

  38. Damn, I think we should start thinking of damage limitation.

    I’m not sure if I’m unfortunate or fortunate that I’m at work and can’t watch the game.

    Crap.

  39. I’m not sure what Arsene is waiting for to make a couple of changes to stop this madness…4?!

  40. We lost. Oh well. Not the end of the world. They clearly deserved to go through.

    I guess we are in for a long night with ethan ranting like a drunkard.

  41. TONIGHT PROVED SEVERAL PLAYERS ARE NOT UP TP FIRST TEAM STANDARD. FABIANSKI IS NOT A FUTURE FIRST TEAM GOALKEEPER, WALCOTT WAS JUST HOPELESS, TRAORE HAS GONE BACKWARDS. HOYTE IS HOPELESS AT CB AND GILBERTO IS JUST TOO SLOW. WE NEEED TO SIGN FLAMINIS NEW CONTRACT AS DIABLY IS NOT HIS REPLACEMENT. BENTDNER TRIED HARD. AND ADE SCORED A SUPERB GOAL

  42. It’s not always going to go our way….but to lose to the Spuds, even if they’re playing a weakened Arsenal team is hard to take.

    Only consolation for me is Ade is scored, so Ethan better not come near him.

  43. Well I dont think you can argue with that, the Spuds definately deserved that over the 2 games, they just wanted it more…..and whilst I am sure Ethan will be as gutted as all of us, I am sure he will smirk to himself

    But I am honestly not that gutted, I think the boys kept going till the end although I was not impressed with the handbags between Arsenal players towards the end.

    You could argue that the subs came too late, maybe if we scored at 3-0 they would have panicked a bit.

    I think we should learn the following though

    1) Diaby is an effective CM player however as a Left Winger he is non entity, it just does not work. I know we will not dabble in the market but if we did surely this would be the area to strenghen. I guess he is just waiting on Gibbs/Lansbury/Randall, the Future is bright.
    2) Adebayor can score and we can lose. He is frustrating at times but his class definately showed with that goal.
    3) Bendtner is special and I really think he will blossom in the next few years. his Aerial presence was definately on show tonight but unfortunately after he won the header we did little with it.
    4) Theo needs a loan. dont get me wrong I really do think that Theo will be a special player but I feel his chances will be limited at the moment and I believe that is stunting his development. Like Merida I think he should get some games for someone else till the end of the season (Preferably Premiership)

    Not looking forward to work tomorrow but 21 (I lost count, was it 21) games over 7 Managers means I will put on a brave face and remind them of winning the League at the Sӣt Hole.

    Just want to finish on a graceful note. I know we all hate the Spuds but they had to beat what went in front of them, and regardless of us playing Kids/Fringe/first team players, I thought they were excellent over the two legs and I really hope that Everton stuff them 7-0 at Wembley….I was going to say Chelsea but I think they would be Guaranteed European Football then regardless of the result :)

  44. wonder what spin we will read on this site tomorrow
    this is the most expensive club in the world to support
    this team aint gonna win f*kk all
    thoroughly embarrassing
    cut through the dead wood
    no Gilberto..no Walcott..no Hoyte.. Diaby in the middle and Traore is 17 .. Walcott will never make it .. he’s got no class.. bar speed, got zilt
    and go and buy some bloody seasoned international players..we got the money to do so, so do it AW .. this club MUST win trophies
    does anybody know how much it costs to go to a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  45. and Gallas was a disgrace tonight .. I reckon he’s a great captain .. but he lost quite some speed .. me reckons he is hiding a fair bit behind Kolo .. go and sign Richards..especially for the EPL .. in Europe, it matters less

  46. There’s a few measured comments on here, and rightly so. Shit happens. Arsen’s pre match comments suggested complacency and they had to beat us some time. Accept your lessons, learn from them and move on. BB, don’t overeact. The most embarrassing thing about tonight was the gooners, leaving after 60mins =, f***ing disgrace.

    Credit to Spurs and Ramos, he has very quickly got them organised and is making ordinary players look good. 10 mins to go and 4-0 and they still defended with 9 men in a line along the box. Chimbonda running all out to stop a throw in the last minute. We got what we deserved on the night, but the future is still bright

  47. Jamie .. may I suggest that it is actually a disgrace to get charged top top money to watch ANY AFC game and being force fed proaganda from the club, and then facing this .. people go to these games and pay money .. the least we can expect is a performance or we do as Milan does or ManU, we make sure that we get beaten in the 1st round so that we skip the embarrassing bit .. this is a bad blow psychologically .. this team has not played exhilarating football in a while now
    we are short to win any trophy this season with the personnel we got
    mark my words

  48. No over-reactions. It’s good for the Milan tie! The kids and fringe lads had a good run. It’s not pleasant but that’s what it is!

  49. BB we’re all a bit emotional after that drubbing and its easy to blame certain players and send them to Coventry.
    The simple fact is, you have to give credit where its due and Spurs fully deserved to go through over the two legs albeit the margin of victory flattered them.
    In retrospect it was their turn to put one over on us, nine years without beating us i suppose something like that was going to happen.
    My initial reaction is to say there was some woeful performances out there tonight but im going to wait till Yogi’s blog tomorrow before i say anything as im the same as you down and p…… off, and i wouldnt give a balanced view to comment now.

  50. Here we go……

    You face it BB, the Spuds would not have a chance aginst our 1st team….they took advantage of a weakened team and that’s all what there is to it.

    What I take on Wenger is, at 2-0 at half time he should’ve made the changes not when it’s 4-0.

  51. BB I dont think this is that much of a Psychological blow,

    Remember if we did not have such a promising youth and reserve setup we would have gone out in the 3rd round. I think it is a massive credit to get to the last 4 so many times playing weakened teams.

    I can’t argue with you on Ticket prices, we are expensive and I wish we would pull out the nice leather seats behind the goals at the emirates, put in some thiner ones, add 10k to the attendance and charge lower prices. All I would say is that Arsenal do charge less money for the CC. Ultimately we are a very well supported club (As shown when we sold 40k for a Youth Cup game and the night before the Spuds failed to sell out the S£$t hole for a cup replay) so supply and demand will always make us that way

    Lets see how Newcastle and AC Milan pan out before getting too gutted.

    Watch Fever Pitch BB that should cheer you up :)

  52. G4ever .. may I suggest that you watch the last game again at the Emirates .. we were very lucky to win .. the missed penalty, the midfield going slightly AWOL, etc..
    we are nowhere as good as we used to be at the start of the season .. reason being, we outperformed.. this team isnt that good yet..I am afraid that without a couple of reinforcements, we will face a troubled 1/2 half of the season
    can we just be realistic for once??

  53. After feeling tense and disappointed and dreadful for the entire game, I’m surprisingly positive now. Exchanged a few points with fellow Gooners and Spurs fans (who’re surprisingly not nasty, relatively) on Vital Arsenal and Vital Spurs. A Gooner has the class to come up with an article to praise Spurs’ performance straight after the final whistle. Fair play to everyone. Worth a read there. Link through my name.

  54. BB I would always accept better players to add to the depth of the squad to make us better.

    And I called for that pre-season but We went with what we had, and fair play I never thought we would be where we are now.

    But I am not a fan of Transfer Windows in January, players of the class that would make us better are not available and if they are, clubs dont see it as January Sales, instead they add 10k to the value.

    Honestly BB convince me, who is available that you think would make the 2nd half of our season

  55. probably a strange comment

    But is anyone else pleased that we no longer have to hear commentators say

    “and remember when Adebayor Scores, Arsenal Dont lose”

    I always used to scream at the TV for them not to jinx us :)

  56. Yes Pat, I’m also glad that the burden of the long spell against Spurs and the unbeaten run of games in which Ade scores are gone. No pressure there anymore. But it might have given Spurs tremendous belief. Could work both ways. (Our home record against Spurs and league record are still intact though LOL)

  57. the problem is that the surprise effect from the CC is wearing off .. even on our own players .. Blackburn was a game that was won with Diarra/Eduardo
    we have a variety of guys in our squad that are not performing nearly as well as they did last season
    Denilson/Walcott/Traore/Diaby/ .. Hoyte never did much for me anyway, bar being a dedicated AFC boy and did he look pissed off 2nite!!
    Pat .. I agree with you on the jan window, but there are always players available .. now this club is not exactly accumulating trophies, yet is by far the most expensive franchise to support..
    there are only 2 ways about this .. either you perform or it becomes a rip off ..
    and yes, the world is not always pink!!

  58. You guys should really go to Vital Arsenal and Vital Spurs. Amazing how Gooners are congratulating Spurs, Spurs fans accepting our compliments gracefully without too much terrible gloating – some still did gloat, but considering their comprehensive victory, it’s really mild LOL. Really, really strange. But for me (who’s never hated them anyway), it’s kind of bordering on funny but in a nice way. Go check it out!

  59. A dip in form doesn’t mean we are crap for the rest of the season, how can you predict that?

    As Pat said, January panic buys not the right way to go. Unless, it is weird circumstance that a really good player who wants to leave his current club becomes available….but the selling club knows that you are in dire need and will add the extra 10 mil that player is not really worth it.

    I think it was a gamble, but today’s team was not up for it to play. The same selection already played well and won against good teams.

    Don’t forget that Man Ure tried to copy us in the same competition and were eliminated by a Doncaster or something like that.

  60. Of the 4 players picked out there BB I would agree with you on 3, Denilson, Walcott and Diaby have been a bit dissapointing this season and I honestly believe that a loan period for any of them would be like a new signing for us next season.

    But I think it is still too early to start criticising Traore, he is still very young and does get caught out of position, but I see enough there to think the future is bright

    And for the 3 you mention, I can mention 3 that have performed to levels double over last season

    Hleb has finally settled
    Gallas with Captaincy has been imense
    and Flamini has been a revelation.

    And with Sagna looking like he has been here 10 years I really dont think we are far off

  61. BB, i don’t deny tickets are expensive, but once you have paid, stay there! Supporting a team is through thick and thin. Ponces who have only begun watching in the Wenger era have no idea what parts of the seventies and eighties were like.

    Let’s go back to ten bob entrance fee and watch John Hawley and Ray Rankin. Paying your money is no guarantee of a performance or victory, That’s football

    We’ve two big cup games coming up and level on points with united. I’d have taken that at the beginning of the season

  62. And Lou, I usually stay away from the Vital Sites, they are normally full of abuse and un-intellignet comments but you are right tonight it is like the 1914 England v Germany trenches match. It is a shame the spuds are not so graceful when we beat them.

  63. To be honest, I wouldn’t specifically pick on Diaby, Theo and Denilson (who limped off after all), we were outplayed across the board. That’s what it was, really.

    And am I the only one who thinks this was the best Spurs performance ever (in my short period of Gunners fandom anyway)?

    But all that said, we’ve been through bigger disappointments before. Last year’s CC final and the CL final in the year before were heart-breaking. This isn’t. I’m still confident it’ll galvanise the guys to do better in the league and CL.

  64. Pat, Vital’s not too bad, still better than some crap sites out there. The 4 main writers have consistently good articles to share. Even though there are some visitors posting abusive stuff, they’re still minority, really. That’s why I keep going. In fact there’s some intelligent debate there too.

    Those rubbish-posters are everywhere, really. (Er, I’m glad this place is relatively reasonable and intelligent.) If you can live with some here (sorry YW, really don’t mean any disrespect to your site), you can enjoy Vital too.

    Sorry for talking about some other site here. Just wanted to share some experience today. I’m also glad that Gooners here are not entirely doom and gloom (wait until some of the doom-and-gloomers come on here maybe). Keep up the spirit and trust in Arsene!

  65. I think you are right there Lou, the Guys will be really up for the FA Cup now.

    Newcastle is now very important though, A narrow defeat would not have been too bad, but tonight means that we need to get back on the horse again at the weekend and make sure that the KK factor doesn’t lead to a Replay/Newcastle Win.

    I know emotions come out on nights like this but I dont think that you can argue that Diaby, Denilson and Walcott havent developed as well as their form last season suggested. Maybe we expect too much of the Wenger Kindergarten but I still expect all 3 to develop into Class players. playing Diaby and Walcott out of position does not help though. Its ok for the odd game but on regular occaisions maybe does highlight areas that need strengthening or need players like Gibbs need to be given a chance earlier.

  66. The gracious comments from other supporters is reassuring, because, these thngs happen and it’s important not to overreact. Strange as it may seem, 5-1 seems easier to accept than last years final. That’s the best I’ve seen Spurs play for a long time, they didn’t allow us to play. We were so far back playing football deep in out half.

  67. The KK thing died off before it took off… Drawing’s one thing, drawing against today’s Bolton is another, and drawing without scoring at all while they talk about bringing attractive football back to Newcastle is yet another. I also kind of think they’ll come and attack us in view of tonight’s result. That’s a good thing if we’re back to our confident old selves.

  68. Pat .. agreed on Traore.. btw mentioned this in a previous post .. still, he hasnt progressed, but needs to play ..
    dont forget that AW played Cesc through thick and thin to make him the player he is today
    so playing games matters .. Diaby and surely Denilson suffer from lack of match practice and in Diaby’s case, being played out of position
    Walcott probably from lack of football knowledge right now more than anything else
    on Hleb, he hasnt been the player he was before his injury and, if you ask me, he’s much better on the left than on the right
    same as Cesc .. Flamini makes a few guys look good for the moment .. wouldnt you agree..
    this shows the limits of what a youth system can produce in a club aspiring for the top
    sagna was a hit because he had experience .. this is a fact!!
    and can somebody please send Gilberto to rio on a one way ticket .. maybe with some pocket money .. his days are over for us

  69. Am I the only one who fancies Everton to lift the CC this year…?

  70. Jamie, yes I felt a lot worse for losing to Chelsea at the final while we outplayed them for the most part. This one we have no choice but to take defeat chin up. Sh!t does happen. If it only happens once every 8 years, we’ve already been terribly blessed with success indeed.

  71. No Lou

    Loads of guys at work are Evertonians and they have been bigging themselves up for months about winning a cup. I just hope they win tomorrow

    A Spuds Everton Cup Final would be level playing field and may put some interest back into what is becoming less important than the FA Youth Cup.

    Spuds Chelsea would only go one way!!!!!!

  72. I Agree with BB on Flamini, he’s is busting his A$$ in every game and covering for Cesc’s dip in form.

    Also Agree, Gilberto really finds himself in strange land…he’s from an era that is long gone. He will never be the same again, currently he’s getting games as a courtsey and due to resting or injured players. Obviousely he’s not going till the end of the season though.

  73. I’m suddenly able to imagine how the Spurs fans have been feeling for 8 years. To suffer one terrible defeat just one night was bad enough for me, I don’t know how they’ve endured that pain for 8 years…! But I’m strangely calm now cos we really have bigger fish to fry! :)

  74. I would go for Moyes and his guys, but you know Chelski..they’re a trophy deprived club and they will be happy to collect another CC and make it look like a CL cup.

  75. Yeah G4E, I guess Spurs too. They’ll definitely publish a DVD to commemorate this win. Just that they’ll hold on until Feb – if surprisingly they go on to lift the cup, they’ll publish an entire box set full of goodies, including a miniature Carling Cup (which also serves as a paperweight, or a 2D one as a mouse pad). If not, they’ll just publish the historic 5-1 home win over the Arsenal on a beautiful DVD.

  76. “Strange as it may seem, 5-1 seems easier to accept than last years final.”

    Yeah, exactly the same feeling. I was gutted after last year’s final.

  77. LOL Lou, they probably would….Or have an Opus with one page in it….stating their glorious win. :)

  78. As I said earlier, the worst aspect of tonight was the empty seats after 60 mins. Can you imagine Scousers leaving the ground because they are 3-0 down to AC Milan. It’s not just the good times.

    If, when Wenger goes and we get the next choice of mamager wrong and end up like Liverpool now, will we struggle to get 60000 becuase all the fickle “fans” have lost interested. Actually, it might feel quite liberating

  79. Yeah Jamie, I felt very bad when I saw that too. That’s disgraceful. I also thought, at 4-0, with all those Spurs fans around them, they must have endured a nightmare there. After that awful second of seeing Gooners leaving on 60′, there’s a moving scene where a special Gooner’s still waving his scarf, cheering on the team, even late on around 85′.

    I feel as much as the team’s been taught a big lesson, we Gooners have learnt a few things too.

  80. Not nice. :(

    But it was their biggest game of the year, and our smallest game of the week.

  81. Welcome Torchwolf! (Sorry if I’m wrong in thinking you’re new, just your name seems new to me here.)

    Yeah well put. We’re surprisingly not gutted. Just hope the guys do remember to work hard on frying the bigger fish from now on!

  82. Sad…. Our experiment this year ends with an ass-whooping! Well played Spurs, better luck next year to our valiant young guns. Hope they all learn from this. There’s still much work to do.

    Next up Newcastle….twice @ the Emirates.

    (Phew, what an ass-whooping!)

  83. G4E you gimp !

    You face it BB, the Spuds would not have a chance against our 1st team….

    It basically was our 1st team ! minus our African players ! Who cant play anyhow, cesc came on in the 18th minute . Rosicky couldn’t play .. dudu and your boy also ! Minus alumina and clichy it was the 1st team !,and you aint going to get alumina play in this tournament or the C.L !
    If you cant tell we don’t have striker problems i hope that game hi-lited it for you NOW !!!

    Arsene did field a stronger line up AS I SAID HE WOULD !!! so who needs the mental health help?! its not my fault your a borderline delusional !
    And think that our team is so far advanced of everyone else’s !

    We need players that make a difference !
    Looking at other boards around the place they
    are more in tune with the current team than you lot ! you all need to drop the purist attitude , because in fairy tales there might be a happy ending .. and yes we are better than last year !
    Everyone expected to get better ! EVERYONE !

    But league winners we are NOT !
    I have a spud friend who called me this morning
    and said we didn’t just beat you .. we demolished you !!!

    People like you all here adopt arsenes philosophy’s to the enth degree .. If the club is making 2 million a home game , and we have 70 mil in the bank , thats all great ! but investing in the clubs personnel is long overdue !
    And you know arsene he never sells a player for a loss ! SO WHY ARE YOU WORRIED ?!
    every time arsene buys a player he sells them for more ! so think of it as making money !

    NOT LOSING IT !!!

  84. “Everyone expected to get better ! EVERYONE !”

    Not you. You said you saw Spurs beating us for 4th, or us escaping narrowly from it.

  85. torchwolf
    But it was their biggest game of the year, and our smallest game of the week.

    Our smallest game ???
    yes right !

    we where 2 games sly of bringing home silverware! 1 of a possible 4 trophies ..
    We needed the Glory and some much needed confidence !!!
    this is the closest we’ve been in 2 years!
    Yes it was a small game !

    more delusional bloggers .

    Everyone happy to Lose against spurs.?
    last time they beat us was 1996 !!!!!
    That is the hardest pill to take !!!

    We fielded an ok team ! a team that if we had injuries to almnuia and left back , it would be a starting team for any EPL game currently!

    Those people who told me spurs are nothing 2 weeks ago and i stated we might have trouble beating them this year … Well I wasn’t too far wrong now was I?
    :)

  86. NACHO
    If they had Ramos at the start of the season !
    Yes .. I could of happened !

    When you have internal club management problems
    like Spurs,Liverpool and Newcastle it affects the teams performances on the pitch .. Sorry i might be a lot of things but i cannot predict club turmoil too !
    There is still 16 games to go nacho ..
    dont bring the wrath of doom onto us !!
    Because spurs wont finish in the bottom half !

    And yes i did say we should get better after we signed dudu – sagna and diarra !
    i said that after TH14 left !! So get your facts right
    corn chip !

  87. “this is the closest we’ve been in 2 years!”

    No it’s not. You missed the League Cup final last year and the Champions League final the previous on?

    “last time they beat us was 1996 !!!!!”

    99 actually.

    This fact correction service was provided for free.

  88. I said that after we bought fabinski .. And lost henry .
    I said if we dont get any replacements . We would RUN THE RISK of losing C.L football ! I expected diaby and cesc (who could of left too ) to get better,
    and the fact wenger wouldn’t sign so everyone was getting ichy feet ! … Like gallas ,flamini etc..

    Wenger signing early like i predicted (which again i was dumped on for) which helped the team Gel ..

    Then came 3 signings + wengers + cesc’s loyalty .
    Thats what i was asking for to change my opinion of ‘the getting knocked out of the 4th spot’ !
    So why bring one part of what i said up ??
    try and discredit me all you want..
    but least i have an opinion .
    and am not a BLIND groupie , i can see where a groupie gets you .. i saw it last night !

    reading all your comments !
    delusional !

  89. Finally, you’re making such a lame excuse for your shockingly disastrous prediction that it’s laughable.

    They didn’t have Ramos at the start of the season, and you knew it. You knew everyone they had. Still, you predicted that. Jol was there and you knew it.

    Also, the main point of your prediction was that we would be crap and we were doomed to fail abjectly. Spurs had board turmoil… so what? Did that suddenly turn us into a challenging team? You said the team would finish outside the top four. Nothing changed at Arsenal since then and we are second because of goal difference only. You were terribly wrong. Accept it and learn some humility.

    Finally, do you know why other clubs have constant turmoil and we don’t? Because we are a serious, well managed in all levels club that thinks in the long term. Exactly what you would change if you had the chance to.

  90. Ethan you rat ass bastard
    (since this is the only language you understand)

    Fabianski, Hoyte, Traore, Denilson, Diaby, Gilberto, Walcott, Bendtner are 8 players that we don’t normally start an EPL game with you gimp ass.

    Fabregas who is not inform anyways came on 18 minutes when we were 1-0 down already, Eduardo and Adebayor didn’t come on until minute 65 when we were 4-0 down with 25 minutes to go.

    Do not change the facts to suit your stupid argument, we were not close to full team until minute 65 you mindless lunatic.

    And yes my man, who’s picture is up there for you, scored the only goal we managed….I bet that made your a$$ bleed.

    You know, at first when you disappeared, I thought Spuds fans beat the shit out of you when you were trying to defend our club…..but now I think you probably was celebrating with them.

    It is hard to take, but it was pound to happen when we play our kids, and second string players against full strong EPL teams. If you can’t accept defeat after 8 or 9 years of winning over the Spuds…football is not for you.

    Gimp huh? Look in the mirror to see one.

    G4E

  91. League Cup final ?
    Its plain reading here that no one wants that one!
    Last time we got close to a cup your delusional friends here wanted was ‘2 years ago’ ! Losing V barca ?? remember?

    Yes ok nacho you looked it up on a web page .. round of applause for nacho..
    Ok prior to that at WHL 95-96 season i was at the game where Sheringham & Armstrong got 2 goals to beat us 2- 1

    but your point ? other than being a picky little bee-yach ???!..

  92. My point is on the comment after that one.

  93. Nacho,

    I think the mindless ass also forgot the we had off pitch problems at the begining of the season with Usmanov crap….we didn’t fall behind like his lunatic arguments suggest…in fact we did better.

    So don’t try to compare us to these clubs to prove your false arguments Ego maniac Ethan.

    G4E

  94. Good point about that disgusting period with Usmanov hanging around like a predator waiting to hunt us.

  95. G4E you gimp-whipping stick

    with the exception of
    Fabianski & Traore

    Hoyte, Denilson, Diaby, Gilberto, Walcott, Bendtner
    Have all featured in EPL games this season ! ?

    we didnt field gibbs or randall or any YOUNG players
    ,More like turn the argument to suit yourself !

    Your the person who said run with them .. we dont care blah blah blah !
    As for ade id like to see him do well !
    But he hasnt got it in him to do so against a TOP CLUB ! only against sunderland and fulham can he bring home the potatos ! So keep dreaming there!

    His record against spurs is good however, and for that reason should of started ! 7 goals in 6 starts ..
    but lets see how well he does against chevski !
    But im not going to be drawn into your little love affair with ade .. ill give you some ALONE time with him .. As i aint going there
    gimpoid !

  96. The fact that those players played some minutes doesn’t mean they are first choice. That was the point G4E and several others were making. It’s not an excuse, the team played badly and Spurs deserved to go through. But it is still true.

  97. Man, YOU’re really stupid

    How much can I make it clear to your dumb ass?

    Yes they all played in the EPL but not all of them starting an EPL game together….understand? or do you want me to write it step by step so you can get it??

  98. AGAIN NACHO !
    at the point i said it we didnt have any new signings !!!
    you can vomit all day about what i said in 1 sentence but if you don’t read the rest or know about the time line its you who looks like the fool ! Because i said
    IT BECAUSE WE DIDNT SIGN ANYONE AT THAT TIME !!
    are you dense ?

  99. Good, I’m glad you finally got it….Leave Ade alone…..one problem resolved. I will work on the rest….Maybe you don’t need professional mental help after all.

  100. G4E arsene signed his contract at the start of the season .. ! and i dont see how a billionare will make
    or players play worse ??? who are you kidding ?!

    Spurs had internal problems with jol THE COACH !!! his players like berbatov WANTED TO LEAVE !!!

    it shows me both what idiots you are ..

    Im sure cesc dont care if we were taken over by walt disney . But if he hated Arsene and wanted out , there lays the difference !

    gimps

  101. G4E i still think he isn’t the answer FOR AFC ! so i still need help ! in your eyes !

    No need to go on about ade ! i have my opinion and you have yours ! Just stop ramming it down my throat !

    I think anyone given that amount of opportunism could score that amount of goals .. But he does well against poor defensive sides like spurs & fulham and they both have the worst records in the league !!

    Lets see how well he will do against a side that needs breaking down like chevski ..
    Th14 could do it .. so we shall see !!!

  102. G4E – yes all have played minutes ..
    we dont really have a youth side anymore .
    We will rely on these 8
    Fabianski, Hoyte, Traore, Denilson, Diaby, Gilberto, Walcott, Bendtner

    over the next few weeks in the EPL ! so dont tell me
    they lack the class ! and if they do we need to BUY :)

    or do i have to explain that to your dumb a$$?

  103. Did you actually read your post??

    Here it is just in case you forgot what you said already.
    —————
    If they had Ramos at the start of the season !
    Yes .. I could of happened !

    When you have internal club management problems
    like Spurs,Liverpool and Newcastle it affects the teams performances on the pitch .. Sorry i might be a lot of things but i cannot predict club turmoil too !
    —————–
    We had trumoil, but because we are a better club with a great manager…it didn’t affect us.

  104. Shit head

    We will never relay on all of them (at once) to start an EPL game….that may only happen in your dreams to suit your false arguments again.

  105. nacho corn chip
    The fact that those players played some minutes doesn’t mean they are first choice.

    They are all we got , so if you want me to remind you in the coming weeks who of those 8 are going to play in the EPL ill be happy to provide that service for you for free also !

    That was the point G4E and several others were making. It’s not an excuse, the team played badly and Spurs deserved to go through. But it is still true.
    They didnt play badly – spurs played better , with a better class of players jenas had a blinder and berbatov although he didnt score was attracting alot of attention !

  106. No problem with that, but the fact still remains…this was not our first team from the start and if this game was an EPL game you would not have seen the 8 players starting this game that I mentioned above. Maybe a Walcott, maybe a Bendtner coming on in minute 65 but not the other way around.

    We started this game with %80 fringe players and they took advantage of that, not an excuse because those same players, played in the same competition against good teams and did a lot better.

    So you can go round and round chasing your tail.

  107. Oh, the wonders of having an archive in blogs’ comments.

    Ethan, read yourself a few months ago:

    “if all you people cannot see our days are numbered , your more 1 eyed than objective !!!!
    It matters little because after this season and loosing the CL spot we will not be able to command transfers of ESTABLISHED TOP TALENT , because who would come ?? ETO ?
    why would he ?
    I know the reason arsene isnt commiting his future.. its pretty obvious to me .. this is a lab experiment gone hidiously wrong ..

    BUY players NOW or suffer the wrath of this slow slide downwards!”

    We had already bought Eduardo and Sagna when you said this if I’m not mistaken. So we had the same squad. Your excuse doesn’t work. You were seriously mistaken. Admit it.

  108. We had already bought Eduardo and Sagna when you said this if I’m not mistaken.

    you are mistaken !

    GAME OVER !

  109. I have alway been about buying a better class of player ! Thats what ETHAN stands for !

    Buying dudu for henry and sagna to provide a better and more stable defense at the back , Making sure Real didnt take cesc from us ! and ensuring Wenger would continue to work with his youth players he bought as against leaving us!, was what i stood for at the start of the season ..

    And all the above , lead me to make that statement .. You will also see if you look through the past that .
    And yesterday also proved spurs have the right personnel like i suggested at the start of the season, just the wrong management leading it .

  110. Nacho i pretty much made that comment after henry left ..

    It would be good if i could be bothered to see what you were saying at that time also and pick it too bits.
    but no one can predict the future 100% …

    But i was more right than wrong .. thats the reason people dislike me and the truth !

  111. And thats the reason we need to face another truth , that our young players will come good but not at the same time . For now we have gaps that need attention ! And if arsene doesn’t address this problem directly we will lose our position as 1st !
    or 2nd .. as we are currently .

    Don’t ask me to predict the replacements , thats wengers job .. I can speculate .. But it isn’t my decision that counts !

  112. It isnt any co-incidence that we think Hleb- Sagna – Rosicky -Toure – gallas – clichy-RVP Are our best players ..

    Thats because they have world class experience !
    we need more like them !! is it so hard to understand ????

    or do you just like arguing for fun ?

  113. Crap………Are you actually saying the Spuds have better personnel than us??

    Are you having a set-back Ethan? The medicine is not working for you? That hallucination worries me

    We beat the Spuds 10 folds in any position on the field player by player.


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