Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | November 1, 2007

Blades blunted by sharp youngsters

Carling Cup 4th Round
Sheffield United 0 – 3 Arsenal

0 – 1 Eduardo (8)
0 – 2 Eduardo (50)
0 – 3 Denilson (69)

In the end, a comfortable night in Yorkshire for a totally changed team. The early goal from Eduardo undoubtedly settled the Arsenal team after a physical if unchallenging opening spell by the hosts – lots of effort by them but little threat. Sharp had a half chance before the Croatian opened the scoring with a cracking shot that beat Bennett for pace and power. The difference between the two sides was more than highlighted in that goal; a throw on the Arsenal right went to Song and from thereon eight passes between the defence and midfield went unchallenged before reaching Bendtner who turned ran and put the ninth to Eduardo in acres of space before he put the ball in the net. After that effort, it would have been rude not to.

The second from the same player was simpler; Gibbs slotted a pass through a huge gap for Eduardo to run onto and calmly slot past Bennett, Chris Morgan’s unnecessary shove got its own reward twenty minutes later when Denilson’s shot deflected off his backside over Bennett. The goal would have sent shudders through the Blades coaching staff. A wayward pass to Denilson sent the ball behind him. Thirty yards from goal, he was able to retrieve, turn and run ten yards unchallenged before shooting. To not close him down was a cardinal sin of football that also highlighted that basically, his team had given up the ghost as far as this match was concerned. Walcott hit the post having rounded Bennett when I suppose if you wanted to be churlish and criticise, you could have said he had time to bring the ball under control but does it matter for last night?

In many respects, not least for their supporters, the performance by Sheffield United was very disappointing. From an Arsenal point of view, I would have liked them to test the younger players more, put Song under pressure at centre half to experience pressure. That said, I guess that Arsene won’t be complaining as by and large everyone came through unscathed. Eduardo’s knock does not appear to have stopped him jogging around after the game so hopefully is not too serious as a couple of goals might have put him in contention for Saturday although I am not holding my breath on that one; I suspect Arsene will go for the same team that drew at Anfield in the continued absence of van Persie.

The value of the Carling Cup is clear for Arsene; it is a testing ground for players, a way to gain experience yet the value of the competition for others is open to question. There is nothing new in Championship sides fielding inexperienced players – Tony Mowbray did the same at West Brom last season – but with an exit in a manner such as tonight, what has Bryan Robson learnt about his charges that he could not have gained from the training ground? He may feel that there is value to be gained by resting his normal choice, perhaps even thinking that were they to lose against effectively Arsenal’s second XI, his players may suffer a further loss in confidence.

However, this begs two questions. Firstly, why spurn the chance to turn over a big club? These opportunities are few and far between as it is, the vagaries of cup draws their only chance this season, and probably next. The second is perhaps more crucial for him to answer, namely does he lack such confidence in his own team to beat Arsenal that he rests them? That being the case, is there much point in them trying to get promoted if he fears for them against tougher opposition?

The situation with regard to Gilberto becomes more complex. Much will no doubt be read into Arsene’s decision to give Fabianski the captain’s armband. From a personal viewpoint, I do not agree with the decision to make a goalkeeper captain, the distance that they spend from the play makes getting advice across to others difficult. In this situation though, it is curious because Fabianski is one of the least experienced players who took the field.

It is easy to see how such actions by the manager send out a signal to the media that there is an opportunity for them to speculate freely on the Brazilian’s future. In the back of my mind, I have the notion – rightly or wrongly – that when Gallas was appointed captain, some utterances were made that the vice-captaincy was to be split between Kolo Toure and Gilberto. If that recollection is true, that clearly is no longer the case. Whether it is a sign of friction is unclear and possibly will not ever be known so given the reluctance of the manager to wash his dirty laundry in public.

Arsene did comment afterwards that ‘they had agreed he would not take part in that role at all this season’ so Gilberto was obviously disappointed in the decision to give Gallas the captaincy but it is a credit to him that so far, the complaining, if there has been any, has been done ‘in-house’.

So through to the Quarter Finals and for the first time in years, a strong draw it is with Chelsea, Liverpool, Everton, West Ham, Tottenham, Manchester City and Blackburn through; a good testing ground for the youngsters, and a smattering of old heads, awaits. Assuming the match goes ahead in December, I would like Arsene to change tack slightly. We will have qualified for the second round of the Champions League by then so why not blood some youngsters in that competition as well?

Finally, one in the eye for Platini. Shockingly there is speculation that Arsenal are chasing Real Madrid’s Pablo Sarabia. The Daily Mail  reports that the fifteen year old is weighing up an Arsenal offer. Who would have thought that such speculation would come so soon after Platini criticised Arsene? A wonderfully shocking World we live in.

’til Tomorrow.


Responses

  1. Contrast the calm professional private manner Gilberto has dealt with his treatment – whilst obviously deeply upset, and let’s be honest we all presumed he’d be skipper this season, with a certain goalkeeper.
    Says it all really.
    I really love the c-c now, I love watching the team play with such confidence and after Fabregas’ emergence through the ’second string’ you never know which future stars you’re watching.

  2. Earlier this season, Gilberto gave an interview on ATVO in which he says he told Arsene he did not want to continue in the vice-captain role so Arsene gave it to Toure. That is why he was not captain yesterday.

    Fabianski was probably made captain in order to organise the makeshift defense who were all playing out of their regular position. Despite not wearing the armband Gilberto is still a leader on the pitch so he would have taken care of the rest of the team.

  3. I hope we get that youngster at 15 + as he must be pretty special. Platini can pratter all he likes but what he has suggested will not come to pass on freedom to trade laws. He should be made to manage a small FA association in some country like Bosnia so that they can improve and not the UEFA. The Bosnian FA or the Estonian FA needs him more. How about that for his socialist ideals of walking the talk. Yes he is a politician first and then a football administrator second.
    Unfortunately in these types of Football associations sh#@@t float upwards and we know who are the chief amongst them

  4. Gilberto is a true Sportsman( Lehman should take note)and a team player.Never heard him strop or make negative comments about his team mates playing his prefered position( Lehman should take note),he just gets on with it.
    Still not please with the way he’s been treated my Le Gaffer, but cant argue with him at present cos he knows what he’s doing and We Are Sailing!!
    Come On The Arsenal !!!!!!!!

  5. Good execise and a great oppertunity to gives fringe (who wouldnt want fringe players of this quality)payers some vital playing time. Ed’s finishing was superb and i truely hope Arsene starts with him up front with Ade in a 4-4-2 v Manure. With all the running of Ade surely their will be spaces created for Ed to utilise his clinical finishing. Diarra was also superb at RB, while Song handled himself with more assurence than Swiss Tony usually does who worries me every time he has the ball tbh. Although 4 in the Middle is a risk on Sat I feel we need to have someone up with Ade because on his own he simply will not score at the moment and I feel Ed is perfect for this. Also after a great showing from Bert I feel its time for him to come back in the side in the middle as the Flamster looked a bit tired at Pool + United will pose a real aerial threat. Cant wait for Saturday.

  6. Fabianski’s going to have to improve an awful lot to even think about challenging Almunia for the No.1 jersey.

    I thought Song equipped himself very well at centre back. His future clearly lies in defence rather than in central midfield.

    Theo looked good – deserved a goal.

    I love Gilberto. He really is a consummate professional. I hope he forces his way back into the 1st XI.

    Once Eduardo gets going, he’s going to give nightmares to plenty of defenders across Europe.

    All in all, a very satisfying night.

    Looking forward to Sat!

  7. Oh yeah nearly forgot appart from a couple of nervous moments Fabianski looked decent making 1 very good early stop and than dominating his six yard box well from corners and free kicks.

  8. G10, why do ya think Fabianski was so bad?? OK he punched a couple of times when he could have caught the ball but that apart he looked very assured IMO!

  9. Crackin win for the lads last night. Totally dominated sheffield. Great workrate from Nic. Deadly goal getting from Edu. Song looked composed, i cant remember the amount of times he simply chested down the ball and strode out of defense. Diarra toyed with them all night , holding onto the ball for fun. Theo always looked dangerous. Gilberto was a calming figure throughout.

  10. YW

    I’m now a fan of Song at centre back. His performance in the two Carling Cup matches in that postion makes him an ideal competitor for Senderos position. He even looks better than Senderos. His heading ability, tackling and his positional play, puts him ahead. The CB position seems to be the natural position for Song other than the midfield.

    Song is a good player but you see this clearly in the CB position not in the midfield where I doubt he can make it. There are so many better players in the middle of the field and think he needs to concentrate in defence where his strength is obvious. ARSENE KNOWS.

    The other player who can get a breakthrough is Gibbs, possibly in the left of midfield in a year or two. He’s strong and his ball position is excellent. Even though he played at the left back position he was not found wanting. Another future Arsenal great in the production line I think, proving that his game in the preseason was no fluke.

  11. Howard

    Song does look better at CB than CM; the point I made is how does he react under pressure which Sheffield United singularly failed to do. Once that has been seen, you can then judge where he stands in the pecking order.

    YW

  12. Howard, Song improved because of his loan spell at Charlton and if he continues this improvement will challenge Phil or Djouru, unfortunately he doesnt get any enough games to keep up his standard even if we get to cc final thats only 3 more games, and players get rusty as can be seen by Diablys play last night. A one month loan spell for Gibbs, Merida, Lansbury would be good for them and for the club.
    I think Bert wil leave, and Diarrah will make the first team very soon. especially as Flamini is out of contract and AW has never mentioned a contract renewal.

  13. Fabianski is NOT the answer to our longterm golkeeping needs.

  14. You know this after 2 games solgooner. 1 against the toon where he was commanding throughout and another when he could have stayed and home he had so little to do. His concentration was off due to being so underused last night.

  15. Hopefully Eduado will be rewarded with a starting place in a 442 against Manu, with Eboue back on the bench.

    But I doubt it will happen, anyway the game will be rubbish, so if you have any tickets hand them over!

  16. regarding the captaincy being given to Fabi, if AW has decided not to give it to Bert, for whatever reason, then I beleive the snub looks all the worse if he gives the captaincy to what we would consider a natural vice captain. Diarra, EDS or Hoyte for example would probably have been a more natural choice. EDS has captained teams for years and Hoyte has been at Arsenal for many years and is English. But to give it to the least obvious candidate suggests that wenger is trying to give out the message that the captaincy does not matter.
    I think it does but wenger is trying to say it doesn’t, and possibly trying not to make a bad situation worse for Bert. whatever is happening between AW and Bert, they need their heads knocking together. He can still be a very important player for us as he has shown recently. It’d be daft to throw that all away for no reason.

    steady on sol, I thought you said there for a minute that Song could be better than Djourou. Song is a decent CC centre back and 5th choice player, but Djourou is class.

    great goal and play by EDS but was it because he was afforded time and space that he cannot find in the premiership? the pace of the game was pretty slow so would have been a lot more like playing in croatia. But whatever you say about him, he can finish bloody well. I am not sure why he is not being given subs appearances to get him used to playing in the premier league. wenger keeps saying it takes 6 months to acclimatize, which is probably true, but I mean how do you acclimatize if you are not playing during that period? it does not just magically seep into one’s body and mind!

  17. marwood was wrong about Fabi, his punching was very good. fabi made one mistake when he barely punched a whipped in cross. he is young and he is hardly playing any games. give the guy a break.

  18. I thought Bendtners touch was a bit loose last night and he occasionally over hit his passes and choose the wrong option on a number of occasions. Plus Diaby looks lost on the wing. Other then that it was another great performance. Diarra looks like a right gem and Eduardo looks ready to take the league by storm but saying that I think Adebayor has to play the weekend. He is vital if we’re going to beat the Mancs.

  19. If Gilberto does not play on Saturday, then it will be shocking, and an unceremonious boot in the arse on the way out the door. He looked like the man among boys that he is out there tonight.

    The reason he’s been kept out is Flamini’s play, and either a) Flamini’s limited talents were exploited by what is the best quality we’ve played, or b) it was just fatigue and loss of form. Either way, I’ve not heard it remarked upon enough how badly Flamini played against Liverpool. The first goal was entirely his fault…he just IGNORED Almunia’s instructions and broke the wall. The next best scoring opportunity was his fault as well, as his attempt to clear went a mile in the air but only got to the edge of the box.

    Cheers to Arsene for riding the Flamini horse through his run of excellent form, but the ride is over and it’s time to get off. We just paid two points for riding it one stop too far.

  20. KingKolo, I just wasn’t impressed.

    I wasn’t impressed with his fear of catching the ball and subsequently I feel lacks the presence I associate with Arsenal goalkeepers.

    Still, 2 games and 2 clean sheets + a few good saves. Won’t argue with that.

  21. Both Gilberto and Diarra are much better options than flamini, both were excellent last night and significantly better players. there is no reason to play 4 5 1 on saturday, we are at home and should take the game to them. they have two good wingers and probably hargreaves and anderson in the middle nothing too scarey there. i am sure it will be the same 11 as sunday especially as none of them were there last night. shame as gilberto and eds/walcott instead of flam and eboue would be nice.

  22. Even against clearly inferior opposition one what I learnt from yesterday’s game is that:

    1. Gilberto Silva is THE BEST HOLDING MIDFIELDER at Arsenal bar none! Blatantly WORLD CLASS! Diarra needs more variety & experience to his game though playing RB underutilizes his skills . Flamini is playing great but Bert’s harmonic intelligence, vision, positioning & experience make him undisputedly #1 in my books. He would retire a gooner like Bergkamp if I were AW and should be included from the start against Man U on Sat.

    2. Diaby, Bendtner & Walcott are NOT READY to be regulars yet. The inexperience of youth could be blamed but Fabregas has set such a high standard for footballing IQ that these 3 players are nowhere near close to meeting, cultural upbringings aside. They are just not as good as they think they are!

    3. Gibbs, Hoyte & Denilson were impressive. They showed good tactical discipline & patience, and wisely synchronized their game with Gilberto’s maestro. It says a lot about their intelligence.

    4. Fabianski was good, Song ok. Lansbury, Barazite & Merida barely played so no opininion

  23. also to give the captaincy to fabainski was really out of order to gilberto, who i can only assume is leaving in january. the guy has played two games for arsenal!!!! so much for it being an honour and reward.

  24. i thought walcott and bendtner did well. diaby was awful but the guy keeps on being played out of position. he is not a left midfielder full stop. as i have said before many times the squad is completely imbalanced with seven centre midfielders and no wide players. as a result good players like gilberto,diarra,denilson and diaby are all going to struggle for games, especially as cesc always plays and wenger is in love with flam. the result is unhappy players and players playing out of position. however clearly results are all that matter and things couldn’t be better on that front.

  25. 5. EDS is as good as advertised. ARSENE KNOWS well enough though when he says he’ll need more adaptation time. Should be on the bench on Sat, i.e:

    Almunia
    Sagna-Toure-Gallas-Clichy
    Gilberto-Flamini
    Eboue-Fab4-Stereohlebs
    Adebayor

    Lehmann-Rosicky-EDS-Diarra-Walcott

  26. how can you say eboue should play in front of rosicky?

  27. Regardless of the Gilberto captaincy issue, the big thing for me was that the report of Gilberto refusing to play CB was obviously correct information. There can be no question of that, one second of looking at the team’s formation answered that. He caused problems for the team, ruined a lot of the young player’s evenings, and has acted unprofessionally. Arsene will say otherwise, but that’s just a matter of deflecting a row, which is the right thing to do, we don’t need a bad smell running into the Man Utd game.

    Hoyte couldn’t stake his claim at right-back, Diarra couldn’t stake his claim in midfield. Disappointing. I have every sympathy with Gilberto, I think from where he is sitting, he probably feels he has been treated very badly, in his mind, he’s gone out of his way to cover CB, and by doing so, it’s actually cost him his own position, rather than being rewarded, he’s been penalised, where Flamini refused to play at full back last season and has now been rewarded.

    But obviously Arsene hasn’t penalised Gilberto for making himself available at CB, he’s penalised him for playing for Brazil during the summer, and rightfully so. He’s got no room to complain, Arsenal Football Club can’t put itself on hold indefinetely whilst players turn out for their countries in mickey-mouse competitions. Toure and Eboue face the same situation, if someone performs well in their absence, they run the risk of ruining their Arsenal career. For me, it’s a good message to send out.

    Good report from Yogi, Sheff Utd were woeful. It felt like Arsenal versus the ‘ave-it-11. Lashing it into the stands at every opportunity. They then flick the camera to the two genius’s on the touch line who have put together this football – scary. And I refer back to what I was saying yesterday, training and academies, you’ve either got talent, or you haven’t, I don’t care if they’ve got the world-coaching-11, no amount of coaching is going to make Sheff Utd play good football. They represented everything bad about lower league football, a team full of old pro’s, battle-hardended, ready to do anything to grind out a result, and pretty much nothing to do with playing football. If they got a free-kick anywhere on the pitch, you watched all the war-horses going forward for the punt, no interest in taking a quick free-kick and getting on with the game, no interest in the game. I felt sorry for the Sheff Utd fans who turned up, can you imagine paying to watch that?!, you wouldn’t want to go again this season would you.

    I thought Denilson/Diarra gave a good example of why they must be given every opportunity to play by Arsene, Gibbs showed that he’s a talented young man with a big future, did excellently in a completely alien position for him. Walcott I thought had a poor game, touch was too light or too heavy, passes were too light or two heavy, ran when he shouldn’t and didn’t when he should, he has games where he seems to have an amazing knack of doing everything wrong. It’ll come with experience I’m sure.

  28. dan, Eboue should start because Rosicky did not look his best at Anfield. He doesn’t look fully fit and ALWAYS uplifts our attack when he comes on as a sub.
    Better in this role till he gets back to form.

  29. aman, it was rosicky’s first game for a while he needs games to get his sharpness back. walcott or diarra would both do a better job than eboue at right midfield, he has been very average there and is clearly not equipped to be a quality right midfielder.

    hboy, i think you are harsh on gilberto, the copa america is not a mickey mouse cup he was brazils captian and led them to win it. i doubt he refused to play there because i think wenger would have just dropped him full stop. he could have played diarra in centre midfield and called up eboue if it was that bad. it is not as if there was a shortage of centre midfielders there.

  30. ” I have every sympathy with Gilberto, I think from where he is sitting, he probably feels he has been treated very badly, in his mind, he’s gone out of his way to cover CB, and by doing so, it’s actually cost him his own position, rather than being rewarded, he’s been penalised, where Flamini refused to play at full back last season and has now been rewarded”.
    ..hboy

    Well said hboy but Gilberto still played CB half of the time with his positioning and covering overlapping teamates. He’s quite correctly asserting himself as THE BEST HOLDING MIDFIELDER on the team. Patience & understanding must take a back seat to what this man does for our team. It’s not about words but action. AW is the overseer but on the field Gilberto Silva is really our LEADER, and CAPTAIN with Kolo as his deputy, no question. Gallas only leads verbally and is undeserving of the armband. Truth is the less u see of Bert the more you’re prone to forget how truly WORLD CLASS he is! So as we near crunchtime/important games he had to do what he had to do whatever the consequences!!!

  31. Arsenal Football Club can’t put itself on hold indefinetely whilst players turn out for their countries in mickey-mouse competitions.
    hboy

    Also regardless of how much u love Arsaenal, please quit disrespecting other continental competitions. He plays for the most beloved, unquestionabely greatest National team on Earth: BRAZIL. It was while playing for his country that AW & Arsenal got the opportunity to see him play.
    Just show some respect hboy!!!

  32. dan, u might be right, we’ll see what AW does. I just feel against Nani & Evra, the Eboue-Sagna combo would wear them down a lot better for 50+ minutes, then unleash Rosicky and/or Walcott on them. Then with Rosicky and Hleb interchanging on both flanks and cutting in Ronaldo will be forced to track back to help Wes Brown along with Hargreaves who Hleb & Flamini should have put thru their paces on the left.
    It should be a tactically interesting game. Can’t wait really

  33. It is possible AW wanted Gilberto at CM to give him 90 mins, so that he is match fit to start on Saturday.

    We do have to pay respect to their attacking potential, whilst not losing too much of ours.

    It would not surprise me if both Flamini & Gilberto play, with Eboue saved for an impact subs role, if needed.

    By the way, it was Cesc who broke the wall & we could not possibly play as well as we did, at L’pool, if a central figure like Flamini was poor.

    Diaby is still a mixture of the sublime & the sloppy. He will not be trusted in CM until he can eradicate the misplaced passes that can lose possession in dangerous areas.

  34. Aman, I don’t want to come across as disrespectful, but, those competitions are disrespectful to european football. The African Nations and Copa America, it’s just not right that these competitions are played with a disregard for european football, who is paying the wages of the players. If the World Cup or European Championships did likewise, I would disrespect those as well I can promise you. You don’t need to worry about me showing disrespect, just look at Brazil’s own players, Kaka and Ronaldinho, they didnt play. Each player has to make his own decision about these competitions, and Gilberto’s decision was to give his priority to Brazil ahead of Arsenal. He can see the net result, and he’s admitted that himself, it did him no favours. If his career at the top was to be cut short because of this, he can try going back to the Brazilian FF and ask for some money, but I don’t think they’ll be willing to reach into their pockets.

    It’s fair enough that Gilberto is proud to play for his country, all I’m saying, is that players need to know the price of that pride. If clubs stop paying players whilst on international duty, I think you’ll find the amount of pride might drop somewhat.

    Where I do agree with you is Aman is Eboue, Dan, you’re not alone in disliking Eboue, but I think in time, you’ll change your mind. For me he was excellent in the second half against Seville, and one of our best players against Liverpool. There’s nothing average about Eboue, I’d say he’s the opposite of average, others might say insane!, but he’s quick, strong and skillful. You’d think with the tricks he does, the fans would love him, but not it seems. As Cesc said today, players from less fashionable countries don’t get the plaudits, he said Hleb doesn’t get plaudits because he’s from Belarus, I agree 1000%, and you’d have to think the same of Eboue. If Eboue was English, he’d be the golden boy, he’d be mde out to be the new Paul Gascoigne, and I’d watch England just to see what he might do. Look at Kolo Toure for example, the media still don’t give that guy any plaudits, back-handed compliments about his speed every now and then. What?! Kolo Toure is a sensation, the strongest, the fastest, the bravest, I love him to bits and wouldn’t swap him with any other central defender in the world. Vidic played a few half-decent games for Man Utd and is the best central defender in the premier league by all accounts. If you saw Rio Ferdinand running through midfield, beaters all comers, they’d be saying that he’s the best player in the world. Forget the nationality, watch Eboue, watch what he contributes, note down when he beats a man, note down when he makes a good tackle, and you’ll be pleased that he’s on our side. I give you an absolute guarantee that Eboue will play against Man Utd, Wenger has no doubts. With regards to Rosicky, I think there’s all the doubt in the world. No doubt about his talent, but will we see the high-morale hard-working Rosicky like we saw in the second half against Portsmouth, I’d say you’ve got about a 25% chance of that. The only time Rosicky has played really well for us is after he’s scored a goal, his confidence changes completely, but he needs to start games like that.

  35. I couldn’t agree with you more, about Eboue, Hboy.

    He still needs better concentration but his skill is simply amazing. He will grow into his RM role. I just wish he would try his extreme pace, on the outside, a bit more than he does.

  36. the african nations cup is out of order as it is in january, the copa america is exactly the same as the european championships and should be seen accordingly. hboy you talk about hard working eboue is not hard working. fans don’t like him, because he is a cheat (and we hate cheats on other teams) he is not hard working and despite some wonderful touches he doesn’t have the attacking quality to be a top class forward and that is what a winger should be. his crossing is good in general but his shooting is appalling,for someone with so called skill he is a headless chicken around the box. if you want a defensive midfielder to help with ronaldo for example diarra would be a better option as his defending is much better. eboue wasn’t good enough in defence as shown by wenger going out and buying sagna and he is not a good enough right winger IMO. he is a good squad player but she not be a first team player especially when we have so few injuries at the moment.

  37. Almunia,
    Sagna Toure Gallas Clichy
    Rosicky Gilberto Fabregas Hleb
    Eduardo RVP

    Our best 11 players in there respective positions. I’m not talking about form, I’m talking about ability.

    Care to disagree any one?

  38. The ANC apparently has to played in Jan/Feb because in the summer it is either too hot or too wet.

    Does it have to be played every 2 years though?

    I agree that Eboue does have to stop the play acting, although he has improved on that score.
    He definitely took a good whack from Carragher, it is surprising that no one has taken that up.

    Eboue is a very useful player because he can be used to keep the right flank tight, whilst still offering an attacking threat. He is also very handy to have as an impact sub, running at a tiring defence.

  39. Just align all international tournaments. ! Or is that askin too much ?

  40. problem is flint he is not an impact sub, he is a first team player. equally would rather have theo as an impact sub or diarra to keep the right flank tight.

  41. agreed on internationals. ban them all no interest what so ever in them.

  42. hboy, losing non-Euro players to non-Euro competitions comes with the package upon signing. I agree their wages (& insurance)should not be paid in full by their clubs whenever they’re away. It’s only fair. Maybe if everyone wasn’t so greedy from FIFA down to the local FAs things would be better. Gilberto losing his place to Flamini was totally justified but it’s time to include him. His qualities are 2nd to none and clearly will not disrupt but enhance the team. He really is to our defence what Berkamp was to our attack, simply WORLD CLASS!

  43. “those competitions are disrespectful to european football. The African Nations and Copa America, it’s just not right that these competitions are played with a disregard for european football”

    Explain this comment. If you’re talking about the time of year they choose to play, the African Nations can’t schedule the tournament during Africa’s rainy season, which is in the summer. If you’re talking about something else, again, again, explain. Sorry, but as a Brazilian, I find your comments insulting. If anything, it’s Europe that is highly disrepsectful to the countries of the south.

    The Copa America is Latin America’s Euro competition and is just as important to us as that competition is to you. That said, I understand Wenger’s attitude to int’l football, I share it to some extent, but your argument about penalizing Gilberto b/c he played at the CA doesn’t wash.

    First of all, Elano played in the same competition, 1 more game than Gilberto in fact — and yet he had absolutely no trouble getting on the first team at Man City right at the season’s start. Gilberto did not play in the final, whereas Elano did. So Gilberto had fewer games than he did.

    Further, both Elano and Gilberto recently came back from Brazil’s two WC 2010 qualifying games in which they traveled between the high altitude of Colombia back to Rio in the space of 3 days. Upon arrival in England, Elano went right back to Man City’s first game after the int’l break and scored immediately.

    So I don’t buy this stuff about keeping Gilberto out so long due to his “exertions” at the Copa America — not entirely, anyway. I’m sure they figured partly into AW’s decision-making, but it’s not the entire story.

    Believe me, I’m a huge AW fan and defend him passionately to all critics but this thing with Gilberto is not going down well with many of Arsenal’s Brazilian fans — that’s because many of us see him in the Brazilian media as he is naturally, less guarded as he is when he interviews with the English media. We get a closer view of him than people in England do. We see and read him speaking in his native language and how he talks about Arsenal in interviews. His passion and loyalty and love for Arsenal runs very deep, he never stops praising Wenger and his teammates.

    And you should’ve seen how he acted in the CA final, jumping off the bench the minute the final whistle blew, running like a madman to his teammates, screaming his head off in pure passion and joy, shouting stuff in Portuguese that the English media would censor, screaming “ESSA CAMISA E’ FODA!!!” while clutching his yellow shirt: “this shirt is —-!!”

    The last word is street slang, derived from “f-ck”, difficult to translate, but means something so incredible and unbelievably superior to everything else, the smile on his face was infectious — his love for his country is something deeply appreciated by Brazilians who were furious at the superstars Kaka and Dinho for refusing to compete in the tournament.

  44. “Just align all international tournaments. ! Or is that askin too much ?”

    Yeah, maybe if the countries of the south all had the exact same weather that Europe does throughout the year, we could do that. Duh.

    I do agree, however, that it’s ridiculous for the ANC and the CA to be held so frequently. The CA used to be held every 4 yrs, then they changed it to 3, now they’re thinking about changing it to 2 yrs. It’s an incredibly idiotic idea and there’s lots of opposition to it.

  45. By allign i mean ,,,the worl cup is every 4 years, as is european championships. Therefore make african , south american cups 4 years also.

  46. oops, Deise, ok, I misunderstood, my apologies.

  47. i think AW knew gilberto’s time was up by not giving him the captaincy and signing diarra, he is at that age where wenger likes to move the players on. agree completely about the recovery time garbage it was an excuse to try other players, to which flam (despite my obvious dislike) grabbed impressively. i will be very surprised if he is still with us in february. agreed above that the time has now come to start playing him again but i can not see that happening, i mean why play him against utd when you didn’t play him away at liverpool. the liverpool game was huge due to the psychology of losing the first big game, especially as he went for a more defensive line up. i fear it is good night flom gilberto.

  48. Great post again Yogi – summed it up very well.

    We played well – but Sheff Utd were truly awful.

    2 points -

    DIABY.

    I cannot believe people compare this guy to Vieira – the only resemblance is looks from a distance!

    The guy is a very poor footballer – who clearly thinks he is better than he is.

    He constantly trys silly tricks and turns in bad positions – and never passes the ball simply.

    I am afraid that he lacks the football intelligence and discipline to ever be good enough to play for arsenal.

    EBOUE.

    I listen to comments on the blog with interest when people say he offers a good defensive option on the right.

    When has this guy ever been a good defender?

    the purchase of a solid right back has made such a big difference to our whole defence.

    Wenger saw that the problem was Eboue at right back, so why can none of you see it?

    He doesnt defend very well in midfield either.

    To suggest he should start ahead of Rosicky is laughable.

  49. I feel its sad that players like Gilberto’ Arsenal career kinda just fades you know. Henry’s last season was cut short through injury and less than impressive. It was the same with Freddie. And will probably be too with Mad Jens. But i suppose thats what happens when players get older. Is gallas next ?

  50. i think diaby needs a run of games at his natural position and comparing him with viera while he is playing in left midfield where he is so clearly unfortable is unfair to him. mind you he looks about 6th in the pecking order in the middle so not sure what will happen with him. he should go out on loan somewhere.

  51. i think jens, TH and freddie were clearly past their best. i personally do not think that is the case with gilberto who had a fantastic season last year and is still just doing his thing when he plays like last night.

  52. Bert is not past his best, not ny a long shot. Wenger says he has a lot to offer. But will Bert be happy doing that from the bench. If not hel be off and the last memories in the fans minds will be how it trailed off for him after perhaps his best season for us last year !

  53. Unless Flamini decides to leave (he can start talking to other clubs from Jan correct ? ) or if his form is not sustained throughout the season , he cant be dropped , not on his performances so far this season, then Bert will be on the bench more than he would like

  54. The Copa America & African Cup of Nations tournaments are not so called mickey mouse competitions.

    They are the South American & African versions of the European Championships, and mean just as much to the players & fans & economies of those continents as the European Championships mean to their European counterparts.

    They are different, but equal.

    If, generally speaking, players from South America & Africa were to be penalised by their respective european clubs whenever they play – or express a wish to play – for their home countries, that would amount to indirect discrimination, maybe even a form of institutionalised racism.

    Either way, it would be wrong for these players to be subjected to the kinds of undue pressures and/or oppressive practices that their european counterparts are not subjected to.

    It would make a mockery of the laudable anti discrimination and anti racist principles that the European Union has sought to enact into the laws of it’s member states, including the UK.

    It is up to FIFA to sort out & harmonise the international calender for football tournaments so that there is as little conflict as possible between the demands of clubs & countries.

    This may not be that easy, as, apart from overcoming the inevitable politics involved, one of the very real difficulties that FIFA may face is that presented by the different climates in the continents in which the tournaments are to be played.

    For example, it may be the raining season in several parts of Africa during the summer months, therefore not making it practicable or desirable to hold a major football tournament during those months, whereas the weather may simply not be an issue for European countries at that time of the year.

    I suspect that there are no easy answers when it comes to harmonising the international football calender, but players from South America & Africa should not be penalised (or made to suffer in other ways) whilst a reasonably satisfactory solution is being sought to address the matter.

    Coming back to Arsenal, I don’t for one minute think that Arsene has been attempting to penalise Gilberto because of the Copa America; rather, it’s more a case of Flamini simply playing so well since the start of the season that it’s made it difficult for Arsene to want to change what has so far been a winning team. And who can blame him?

  55. flamini’s form may be good for him however i don’t think he is untouchable. if players are better even when playing your best, the manager should still be picking the best players available.

  56. Personally i think Gilberto & Diarra are better players. But right now Flaminis contribution to the team play has been second to none.

    Its a tough one no doubt but thats what Wenger is paid for.

  57. his form has dipped in the past few games and does not justify playing every game at the expenses of better players. as you said not our choice unfortunately.

  58. Libras are big on harmony but are very tough people when situation demands it. AW & Gilberto share this sign and will amicably sort things out now that Bert has made his displeasure visible. AW knows u don’t let go of seasoned world-class talent till it’s past it’s best. Clearly not the case with Bert, so I expect compromise not unenhanced by Flamini’s positional flexibility.

    Remember we are a classy team….

  59. The Daily Mail is saying that Gilberto will start for the ManU game. I just wish there were some miraculous way for magician Wenger to fit in both Flam and Gilberto.

  60. As Magneto says, Gilberto has not been penalised for playing in the Copa America.

    This is because we payed for not resting TH14 for long enough, after the WC.

    It was obviously decided that Gilberto, would have the proper rest to allow him to last the season. Man City & M Utd may pay the price for playing Elano & Tevez so soon, later on in the season.

    What probably was not realised is that Flamini would bring something to the team that has been, to date, very succesful. He is more of a tackler than Gilberto & has helped to speed our play.

    There is still plenty of time for Flamini to improve his game much further, he is only 23.

    Flamini is the man in possession of the place & deservedly so. There is no reason to change but Gilberto’s chance will come again sooner or later.

    I don’t see Gilberto going in January, although you sense there has been some friction with AW.

    AW obviously rates Eboue because he always in the squad, when fit, either starting or as a sub.

  61. the Battles:

    Almunia-Van der Sar
    Sagna-Nani
    Toure-Rooney
    Gallas-Tevez
    Clichy-Ronaldo
    Gilberto-Giggs
    Flamini-Anderson
    Fabregas-Hargreaves
    Eboue-Evra
    Hleb-Brown
    Adebayor-Ferdinand

  62. wenger must have not fancied eboue’s defending or no sagna and is obviously trying out the midfield at the moment to varying degrees of success. but clearly he likes him as you correctly state he is a regular since he has been back from injury.

  63. oops,
    Hleb-Vidic
    Flamini-Brown

  64. Dan & Matt – Sorry, just can’t agree guys, we’re going to have to agree to differ on Eboue. Where you guys see a problem, I see a star. Was he a problem in defence, yes, a little bit, but only because he was more naturally gifted as an attacking player. Everyone says he’s a full-back playing at right-midfield, but that’s only because that’s where Arsene started him. I believe be originally played right-midfield for both Ivory Coast and Beveren. I know when he had the original trial with us, he played right-midfield in the Ajax tournament. Personally, I think he’s got an excellent tackling technique, he’s very good in the tackle, but his positioning was terrible. He was brilliant bombing forward. You put the two together, and I think Arsene saw the obvious, that he could get more out of Eboue going forward, and putting a more traditional defender at right back would improve the defence. But I believe Eboue being used further forward, was as much in Wenger’s mind, as it was improving the defence.

    One thing which I believe is important in football, and under-rated, is the ability to beat a man. That’s the sharp end, that’s what sorts the men from the boys, that’s where goals and danger come from, the ability to beat men. In world football, there are not large numbers of players that can do that. Hleb and Ronaldo are vital to both Arsenal and Man Utd, because at the end of the day, you need someone that will beat a man. I believe Eboue is capable of beating men, and that talent should be cherished. There’s no question in my mind that Eboue could beat a player in a Champions League Final and make the difference. Does he do mad things, yep, but we’ll let Arsene try and knock a little more sense into him. I believe he will get better and better this season, and Flint, agree with you, he needs to take his man on more, and gain confidence in his new position. And finally, the cheating thing, I don’t think the fans give a toss about that, suddenly we’ve all got the biggest consciences in football, nope, fans are just using that as an excuse for disliking him. If it was Cesc doing it, I’m sure we’d manage to turn the other cheek. I don’t think he cheats anyway, he’s just a little “mad” like I say. Who is he cheating for example when he stays down and looks terribly injured, then gets up and runs normal. That happens when he runs into the barriers and things, he’s not trying to cheat the opposition or the referee, he’s just mentally unstable at times, like he’s after attention or something. Like I say, I think we should concentrate on his talent and forgive him a little sillyness. Van Nistelrooy was a cheat.

    Marcus – my explaination is that any competition that stops a player from playing for his club, which is what he’s paid to do, is not right. I suppose my grievance with the Copa America is less justified than say the ACN, but the Copa America seemed to end a lot closer to the start of the new season than say a World Cup or European Championship would, am I right, or wrong? Regardless, my problem is with all these competitions, I believe players do deserve a holiday, and they can’t have that with all these tournaments every summer. Arsenal tries to do their bit by not going on lucrative pre-seasons tours around the world, the footballing authorities should do their bit. Why is it up to Arsenal to give Gilberto a holiday during our league season? These tournaments should begin immediately after the end of the league season. Forget training camps, its a load of balls, they’re all fit from the league season, get them playing immediately so it can end asap and the players can have a break before the league begins again.

    Matt – Diaby isn’t having a great time at the moment, last night was awful, some nice touches, but a lot of very bad ones, where he treated the game with contempt, I don’t think Arsene would have been happy with that. I don’t think the Vieira comparison is in anyway appropriate, but I think he’s a fantastic talent, again another player who is fantastic at beating players, and at times, he gives us that air of superiority over the opposition, he physically dominates the opposition. He will be a massive player for Arsenal in the future, I’d be tremendously surprised if that doesn’t turn out to be the case. In fairness to him, his position really should be a central one, and this messing about with him on the wings is really leaving him a little confused, he’s trying too many tricks, but that’s what wingers do, I don’t think he’s playing his natural game right now.

  65. “his form has dipped in the past few games and does not justify playing every game at the expenses of better players. as you said not our choice unfortunately”

    Dan, I’m not sure bout everyone here but I think that Arsenal and football in general are very fortunate that is not our choice.

  66. “Africa’s rainy season” is a very relative concept. Africa is a large continent, almost three times the size of Europe, with countries in both hemispheres, meaning that in January, some countries in Africa do have summer, and a rainy season. And some regions have rain in summer, others in winter, other countries close to the equator have different seasons that aren’t quite summer nor winter, but the tournament is still held at the same time every two years. I think it is simply traditional that January is the chosen time.

  67. “Unless Flamini decides to leave (he can start talking to other clubs from Jan correct ? ) or if his form is not sustained throughout the season, he cant be dropped …”

    What does that mean, Deise? He, and anyone else, can be dropped the second Arsene thinks he has a better option. And Flam’s form just dropped on Sunday.

    Flint, I would say that Cesc was never in the wall, believing he saw a threat for indirect that Almunia missed (he’s not blameless). Flamini was indecisive, leaving the wall but accomplishing nothing, and it cost us the goal. He also botched a clearance horribly, forcing Almunia to make a huge save on Gerrard. Two huge mistakes.

    Having your holding midfielder play “well” but making those key mental and physical errors is perhaps forgivable (I really like Flamini), but good lord, we have GILBERTO on the bench! He never makes those mistakes. I feel like people have amnesia. He was our best player last year, and there’s no reason to think he’s any different. He and Cesc played seamlessly together. He’s a brilliant passer, makes great decisions, positionally perfect and scores goals on top of everything else.

    I’m seriously hoping that Arsene is forseeing Arsenal going deep in all 4 tournaments, and judged that riding Flam through a winning streak was one way to keep quality players fresher longer. While we were maxing out on points, brilliant. Now we’ve dropped points needlessly, so there’s no jinxing, and no reason not to make the switch.

  68. unattractive man, correct, but would be fun though

  69. Why is everyone suddenly crying for Gilberto? All the talk of last season is a bit shortsighted. Many seem to think Gilberto was our best player last season, is this the same season that we finished 4th, won nothing and got beaten by the likes of sheffield united?

    This season we have a dynamic midfield, are scoring goals for fun and undefeated. Why oh why should AW change this?

    While gilberto is a class player he is not as mobile as FlaminI who clearly works better with Cesc. And the more they play together the better they will get. In AWs books Gilberto is on his way down the hill and while he has alot to offer he has to prove it by being better than the man in his place.

    It is all about results, there is no room for sentiment, which is why time and time again we will all moan about how AW treats our stars. Remember Bergkamp and Freddy?

    Im pretty sure that Gilberto can still win his place back, but it will require a titanic effort to rip is place from Flamini’s dead fingers.

    All I can say is while the situation is bad for Bert, it is great for Arsenal FC.

  70. Lol, yes we would never agree on anything, probably get relegated and end up suing each other.

    But it would be the best season ever ;)

  71. come on lets get real

    its plain to see that sir wenger and gilberto have had a bust up. this was a slap in the face by wenger, even if it’s true that gilberto didnt want to be vice captain then that there is a problem in itself which must of resulted from some sort of dispute surely. i say it again we will not see gilberto here next year which is a shame.

  72. “He definitely took a good whack from Carragher, it is surprising that no one has taken that up” – Flint.

    I’m not surprised Flint! Sadly, Eboue has earned himself a label and people are quick to look for the evidence, which supports their view of him rather than step back and look at his contribution objectively.

    The people slating Eboue are probably the same people who are now eating humble pie about Hleb. Why not just support our players and give them a chance to prove themselves. He’s played the attacking midfield role for less than a season, but already he’s been labelled as sh*t. It takes time to adjust to a new position and his season has also been disrupted by injury.

    I don’t hear any Man U fans complaining about the cheating of Ronaldo and Rooney or any Liverpool fans complaining when Stevie G dives for a penalty. Eboue may be quick to go down at the slightest touch and he may over-dramatize situations, but accusing him of ‘cheating’ after he has been felled in the box is going too far IMO

  73. unattractive man

    do you believe that we finished 4th, got beat by sheffield utd and won fuck all is because of gilberto? thats a bit rodney marsh!!!

    we were always gunner improve on last year whoever was in the team! gilberto is better then flam but i personally think sir wenger is doing his old planning ahead thing!!

  74. unattractive man

    do you believe we finished 4th, got beat by sheff u and won nothing is because of gilberto? thats a bit rodney marsh!!

    we were always gunner improve from last year whoever was in the team! gilberto is better then flam but i personaly think sir wenger is doing his old planning ahead thing!!

  75. so i can use profanity then!!

  76. passenal,

    firstly we are all behind the team just expressing opinions on what we think maybe better, that is what blogs are all about. secondly it is not a matter of saying eboue is rubbish, it is about other better alternatives i.e. walcott, helb, rosicky or diarra who many people feel could do a much better job than eboue. why are we tring to create a new position for him when we have perfectly good players who who can play there and don’t need to learn the position.

  77. Does anyone remember when Sheffield’s Morgan cowardly karate-punched RvP in the kidneys from behind last year? It was nice to make him look like the 2nd rate fool that he is last night.

  78. RedVestWhiteSleeves, yes I remember that incident very very well and I’m still furious that he only got a 3-match ban. That was plain assault, it was totally off the ball. What infuriated me esp. was how the media and general football blogs treated it, like it was just no big deal. That’s because 1) the victim was an Arsenal player and it’s always a lot of fun for these idiots to see gunners brutalized and 2) it was an English player who committed the assault, the kind of player admired for showing he’s a “real man” who’s got “grit.” Simulation is considered a worse sin than a violent criminal assault.

  79. what surprised me about last week is that carra clearly did something to Eboue (whether it was hard or not I could not tell) but the commentators and sky hardly mentioned or showed it. if that had been an English player, how many times do you think that would have been replayed and how many column inches would it have taken up the next morning?
    For me Eboue is a better winger than he was a right back and he does have the attributes to do a great job for us there. I just think he has been b bit off form recently. he can do better than we have seen recently I am sure of that. as a winger he also needs to score some goals. at least 5 a season from that position.

    While Bert is a class player, I think wenger is looking forward only. he would much prefer to play a player that will be here next season not one that he knows is going to be sold. wenger prob knows exactly when Bert is going to be sold. I want to see our strongest team on any given day though. Flam does not need any more games. If Flam is to be our DM in the future then fine but while we have bert sitting there I think we should use him. and I think as alwauys people forget how good Gilberto really is. Do you think we’d have given that free kick away last week at Anfield? no way, that is Gilberto’s zone and he deals with everything around those areas with ease.

  80. Marcus

    I remember that assault vividly – it made me spit nails for weeks.

    It wasn’t even mentioned by the ‘pundits’, all that attracted their intention was RvPs perceived loss of temper. Nothing about the fact that the reason he lost his rag was due to being assaulted!

    Insanity.

  81. Dan, the point is that Wenger watches these players closely all the time. Walcott, Hleb, Rosicky etc might be able to do a job in RM but they would do a different job to Eboue. I think Wenger has earned our trust in his judgement as he is more often right than wrong and I really believe that Eboue will be switched on against Man U on Saturday and that his past history against that team is good enough to both attack and defend when necessary.

  82. Gazzap, that is spot on! The only time you see Bert break sweat is in that zone as you put it! He reads play better than anyone else at the club and makes phenomenal blocks every game. He has to be brought back into the starting eleven, my only question is will he be sharp enough for United? I think we should take that risk.

  83. Whilst I agree Bert is a wonderful player, to say he never gives a free kick away, around the box, is romancing it a bit.

    I think he may well play against Man U but possibly not at the expense of Flamini. It will be a tighter game than a lot of people are expecting.

    Remembering some comments in the summer, not all of the commenters here will agree about AW’s judgment.

  84. I didnt say Eboue was rubbish – i just said in my opinion he is not good enough to play RM for Arsenal.

    Massive difference.

    And as Dan pointed out, we have better options – Rosicky is a far superior footballer to Eboue.

  85. Maybe Matt,

    but they are very different types of player & sometimes it is a matter of “horses for courses”.

    The best 11 players rarely make the best team. Look at England.

    Don’t forget Eboue kept Ronaldo quiet twice last season.

  86. [...] Report A Cultured Left Foot | [...]

  87. I remembert Bert giving a free kick away in exactly that zone against spurs this season, in fact. I like him though, of course.


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