The media are contrary buggers at the best of times. You think a match has gone one way, the headline writer another and the third way is found by a journalist. It is the same with injuries. William Gallas is due to return to full training today according to Arsenal.com yet The Daily Mail says that is an ‘injury setback’. Bizarre. It is good news about Gallas in that it eases the pressure on the centre of defence should either Toure or Senderos not be available in the coming weeks. Personally, I would prefer Gallas to return against Bolton, the thought of him coming into the side at Anfield brings a shudder following on from last season. Jens Lehmann, it seems, has just started full training which makes the goalkeeping decision for Arsene more imminent than it seemed yesterday. Whilst Almunia will definitely start against Sunderland, looking beyond that is harder. The Spaniard merits his inclusion but whether Arsene sees him as now being his Number One is harder to gauge, Le Boss having made no statements to that extent. That is tough on the player because it would do his confidence the world of good to have such faith publicly pronounced. Theoretically, it should be boosted anyway with playing but it would do no harm for him to have the public affirmation of his abilities from his manager. Of course, that might be a tension creator with the German but may be a better motivational tool for the Squad as a whole.
It is otherwise a slow news day for the playing side of things hence the number of column inches devoted to the Board’s best new friend, Stan Kroenke, and his meeting with them. It seems it all went swimmingly and they think that he wants to join their game rather than the one being organised by the ruffians from the other side of the tracks. I suspect he may prefer to deal with them but in the same way as the Irish duo at United were tempted to sell their holdings, a sizeable offer from Usmanov for his shares may not be rejected and indeed would be a signal for any upcoming bid for the Club as a whole. In that instance, the Board are in a somewhat unenviable position. As we argue over the soul of the Club in various forums – or is it fori? Never to sure with this Latin stuff – ours are emotions that run hot and cold. The Board may be emotionally attached to the Club but as soon as the door is knocked with an offer, their emotions go out of the window and the cold, hard business heads have to be assumed. The stance they adopt may be from the heart initially but the head will have to take over at some point because of the legal duties placed upon their offices. It could be argued that their emotions ought to be involved due to the nature of the business but the minute Arsenal became a ‘plc’, that avenue of thought became a cul-de-sac.
According to the Chairman though, that day may be some way off as Kroenke was amenable to their ‘lockdown’ agreement without actually signing up to it. To what extent that amiable nature extends remains to be seen.
Carlos Vela holds bright hopes for the future, both his own and those who have seen him play. Speaking to Setanta, he said
My objective is to be a world icon like Cesc Fabregas, to learn thanks to Arsene Wenger, and to impose myself at Emirates Stadium…I don’t know if I am going to stay for more than one season.
Sort of proving that he is not looking to leave though,
I am learning English and I think that I can speak it right now
It would be good to see some of the lad in an Arsenal shirt having seen clips of him playing for his country, he looks worth the wait. But there is a long way to go before he achieves his aim but good luck to him.
Anyway, a bit of publicity for a site to while away some time when that boring thing called “Work” rudely interrupts; Simpsonize Me allows you to upload a photo of yourself and become your own character. Here’s the Arsenal squad.
’til Tomorrow.























first comment. yeah.
By: ozgooner on October 5, 2007
at 7:28 am
So you’ve been having a lot of time at work Yogi?
That made for a good laugh though.
Stan Kroenke is in small-stake-holder paradise; I guess the $ will speak, sooner or later; and why not indeed. It is, at some level, a business after all.
By: Karthic on October 5, 2007
at 7:36 am
Who’s who in the simpsonize me pics? I know the grey hair dude is Wenger. Who are the rest?!! 4th is Almunia?
By: Stanley on October 5, 2007
at 7:39 am
“I suspect he may prefer to deal with them but in the same way as the Irish duo at United were tempted to sell their holdings, a sizeable offer from Usmanov for his shares may not be rejected and indeed would be a signal for any upcoming bid for the Club as a whole. ”
I don’t think you can draw parallels here.
Ferguson alienated the Irish duo with the argument over Rock of Gibralter’s stud rights.
Clearly, the aim here is to keep Kroenke in the fold and not alienate him.
The fact that Kroenke has severed ties with Dein tells you which side he sees as best serving his interests.
Kroenke is a billionaire, married to a billionaire from a family of billionaires.
Obviously, he thinks a long term link up with one of the most famous clubs in the world will be of more value to him than making a quick £30m profit.
The real acid test comes when he feels a link up with Arsenal is no longer of use to him but I can’t see a day when the Colorado Rapids outstrip Arsenal!
By: G10 on October 5, 2007
at 8:33 am
“Are we letting a robber in thru the back door coz a rapist is at the front door?”
This is the question that keeps disturbing me fans
- Between Kroenke and Usmanov who is the best long term otion for Arsenal.
Arsenal will win against Sunderland if only Fabregas continues playing and rotating with the other midfielders. Sunderland will prove to be a hard nut to crack and they will come to Emirates determined to break our unbeaten run. Ferguson must be giving tutorials to Keane on how best to beat us since he was in the same team that broke our unbeaten run.
I predict Arsenal 4 Sunderland 1
By: ArsenalKenya on October 5, 2007
at 8:49 am
With regards to Kroenke, I hope some Arsenal fans won’t start seeing him as a knight in shining armour.
He still sees Arsenal as a vehicle for profit, the only difference where he sees the profit coming from.
The is worth around £1b and the current state of the financial market rules out HLBs.
Firstly, Kroenke knows the board will never sell.
Secondly, in April 2007, when Kroenke first bought shares in the club, Arsenal was undervalued. That is no longer the case. Usmanov has priced him out of buying the club.
Kroenke is perfectly aware that buying Arsenal Football Club is no longer an option or realistic ambition for him.
In light of this, the only way for him to make money out of Arsenal is to either sell his shares or use our technical and sporting knowledge and expertise for his own end.
He knows how important his 12.2% is. In return for keeping Usmanov at the door, we will help him turn the Colorado Rapids into a genuine MLS force.
Kroenke won’t make money out of Arsenal but he will use Arsenal to make money.
Don’t forget that.
He isn’t holding on to his shares out of the goodness of his heart or in some quixotic belief that one day he’ll buy the club he loves.
It’s about money. This is a cold hearted calculation about which route will make him more money.
For our side, the history and soul of our club is maintained and we can further tap in to a lucrative US market, where we already have a base of support and popularity.
Given the alternative, I think it’s a trade off I think we can all live with.
By: G10 on October 5, 2007
at 8:54 am
Hear hear G10, a trade off that might actually last as long as AW leads us to more trophies, maybe?
Bendtner comes on as a sub vs Sunderland and scores?
Gallas & Jens vs Bolton? One of them plays…
Oh the dirth of issues to write about….
By: Aman on October 5, 2007
at 9:09 am
Returning to the football (briefly!) I’ll be there on Sunday. Can’t wait.
ArsenalKenya, we’re not going to stick 4 goals past Craig Gordon.
It’s going to be an incredibly frustrating afternoon. Unlike Derby, Sunderland have shown that they can defend well and stand firm in the face of an opposition onslaught.
They’ve beaten Spurs, competed well with Liverpool and Man Utd needed a set piece to break them down.
This is yet another test for this team. 9 wins in a row is great but can they maintain that professionalism, show Sunderland the respect they deserve and be prepared to fight and work hard?
I hope so.
By: G10 on October 5, 2007
at 9:10 am
You’re sure that’s the Arsenal squad in your Simpsons picture? I can’t recognise one person – it could just as easily been the cast of Police Academy 14 or Jesus and his 12 disciples or whatever.
By: halfNice on October 5, 2007
at 10:02 am
I think I found Song, denilson, fabregas, Fabianski, eduardo and Diaby and maybe Sagna (4th from end?). very good though.
As always I think it will depend on what minute we score our first goal in. if we get one in the first 15 mins I think it will be a straight forward afternoon, but if Sunderland find a rhthym then things start to get twitchy but we have usually been able to get late goals so I think by hook or by crook we should win the game.
the match up between Kroenke and Arsenal all along was meant to be about developing both clubs’ interests, which kind of got lost in all the take over stuff. DD set this up originally but I think it can carry on since it seems a genuinely good idea. we scatch their backs and they scratch ours. If we can get a good working relationship going with Kroenke over the next couple of years it reduces the chances that he will stab us in the back later.
By: gazzap on October 5, 2007
at 10:14 am
First off, it’s fora, but only if you’re inclined to follow the grammatical rules of the source language.
About Kroenke, he is in a sweet position to exploit Arsenal for some sort of gain. But as it was noted above, he is a rich man, married to an ever richer woman, from a family of horrendously rich, powerful people. This guy is neither looking for a quick buck or is going to be intimidated by Usmanov.
Like Philip Anschutz or Lamar Hunt, Kroenke got involved in MLS to make money on residuals. Here in the States, where the “soccer” community tends to be a bit insular, the first two, particularly Hunt, are revered because they have pumped money into the sport with a view of making it back some time in the future. Anschutz is not a saint, as anyone who knows anything about Qwest Communications would know, but he singlehandedly kept the league alive by buying clubs until other people got interested in paying money for them.
Kroenke, like Anschutz, got into this business for the long term, and I think that his association with Arsenal, vis-a-vis Usmanov, might be constructive.
By: Ubu Roi on October 5, 2007
at 10:30 am
Currently listening to you on the arsecast YW…
By: Easy Tiger on October 5, 2007
at 10:41 am
Good points made there by Ubu Roi + gazzap.
I must admit I’m also guilty of forgetting why we linked up with Kroenke in the first place!
I suppose Dein must be kicking himself.
He wants control of the club and he saw the potential power of combining ITV’s 9.9% and his own 14.68% shareholdings into one powerful block.
Kroenke was his vehicle for the takeover but according to PHW, Kroenke has told the board he got involved with Dein on a ‘misunderstading’.
Kroenke doesn’t want to takeover Arsenal.
Maybe (back in April) when the club’s shareholding was worth £400m, he may have been tempted by the idea of buying Arsenal, seeing the potential for growth the club had.
But now? No way.
If Dein had introduced Usmanov to the ITV shareholding then Usmanov would have a 26.87% shareholding for the same price he has a 23% shareholding and a takeover would have been more viable.
Instead, the man Dein first engaged to help him control the club is the same man who will firmly shut the door on Dein.
Oh, the irony.
DD always fancied himself as a power broker of the highest order. Turns out he’s up there with Del Boy.
By: G10 on October 5, 2007
at 11:23 am
Lord some people really do like to re-write history don’t they. DD set up the marketing arrangement with Kroenke and ultimately invited Kroenke to buy the ITV shareholding. For an unknown reason PHW and DF did not like DD’s actions. The fact that some people who reviled Kroenke and DD and have now turned to Kroenke as a defender of the club is ironic indeed. Like him or loathe him, and most bloggers seem to be in the latter category, the big mistake was to sack DD from the Board at a strategically important time. Events have transpired because PHW and DF threw their rattles out of the pram, and I think that was a massive mistake.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 11:49 am
Everyone seems to be hugely against anyone making any money out of Arsenal and I can understand why to a certain degree.
We don’t spend vast quantities of money though? We have the best training facilities around, we have the best manager and some of the best players. So what are we going to do with all this extra money we are now generating, everything is paid for (bar the stadium). All it does at the moment is line the players pockets, what difference does it make if it’s lining a Russian or Americans.
Richard Branson takes profits out of Virgin, but not at the expense of the company. If the customer is happy and the business is happy, whoever is running the show should be allowed to be rewarded. Would everyone be ok if Fizman and co took a few million as a bonus this year? I wouldn’t mind, they have worked hard for it.
I am against Usmanov whole heartedly, but purely because he seems in it for the quick buck and has no sporting experience. Stan is a different kettle of fish. He is a sports mad billionaire who likes to run a sound business by the looks of things. He isn’t afraid to splash the cash and he has had a fair amount of success with his teams.
I think some people seem to think Stan or whoever else will come in, bleed the club dry at the expense of the team and move on. This would be completely illogical.
Lets not forget that the current board are hardly the Saint like figures we are all making out. One look at the ticket prices will tell you that. We’re not exactly getting the best deal are we? We had the most expensive season ticket in the league last year and we came 4th. If the board are so much better than the Glazers or Gilletts, maybe they’ll give the fans a season ticket price reduction? Or free beer at half time? Or a discount on merchandise! You know just a way of thanking the fans for making Arsenal the richest club in the world.
If Stan bought the club off his own back and didn’t leverage the debt against us, I wouldn’t really have that much of an issue. Although I would prefer the club to stay in the hands of the current owners because things are working nicely as they are.
I wouldn’t change anything about Arsenal at the moment, but I think its time we stopped looking at the current board like they are doing us a favour.
By: Pedro on October 5, 2007
at 12:02 pm
BLATTER SHOULD READ THIS ARTICLE FROM AN ARSENAL FAN ON GUNNERBLOG AND KNOW THAT HIS TIME IS OVER………!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Morning all.
Blatter really is a tired old doltish man isn’t he? He is destined for glorious failure. Pathetic. How does he propose to win? Since when has any organization had the right to restrict free trade and the free movement of labour between countries with legitimate agreements? Does Blatter also want to forbid all industries in the UK and everywhere from employing foreign workers then? He hasn’t even thought this through really, so we should all laugh maniacally at him.
As TC touched upon, the problem is that there is an over-influx of dross in our league. It’s not ‘Johnny foreigner’ per se that is the problem, despite what crass morons like Fat Sam would have you believe. The root of the problem is average to mediocre managers such as Fat Sam, importing mediocrity that is not as good as some of the players currently available. Despite the Daily Mail lynchers overlooking the facts.
If I were a lawyer challenging Blatter in the ECJ I would put it like this: for a start, foreigners in football is not a new phenomenon. In 198 (think), Liverpool won the FA Cup with a team that consisted almost entirely of foreigners. Irish, Welsh – name it. Yet nobody makes a single mention of this.
Does anybody remember the old Division 1? Christ, the backwards feral neanderthal long-ball factory. Imagine a league full of Kevin Davies, Allardyces and Andy Todds. And Blackburns. We used to be regaled with dross from Wimbledon and Barnsley.
English football used to be miles behind Italy, Spain, Germany and arguably Holland too.
The thought of a player like Thierry Henry playing in England back then would have been unthinkable. Now fast-forward all these years, and have a look at the best players of the last 20 years in our league: Henry, Bergkamp, Zola, Cantona, Pires, Giggs, Vieira, Keane, Ronaldo, Fabregas, Beckham, Scholes and Shearer. Schmeichel. There’s only 3 English names there.
The fact is and always will be that English players are not good enough because simply put, the footballing culture in this country is all wrong. 40 years of abject failure is testament to that. The fact that the only point of reference is 1966, a tournament won on home soil when the television was still in black and white – is nigh on comical.
We all mock the spuds by telling them that they last won the league when tv was in black and white, so how are England any different? Of course there are some decent English players. However, if you were to right here, right now compile a list of the top 30 players of the last 10-20 years, I think you’d be hard pressed to find an Engliah name in there. Let me see…hmmm….I would go: Bergkamp, Henry, Giggs, Keane, Vieira, Van Basten, Gullit, Zidane, Ronaldo (real one), Messi, Maradona, Matthaus, Zola, Davids, Weah, Desailly, Stoichkov, Romario, Laudrup (Michael), Maldini, Cafu, Simonsen, Raul, Baggio, Brehme, Savicevic, maybe Wright…
Oh dear. Only one English name in there. But can anybody explain just why in Brazil, children with so far fewer resources at their disposal consistently outperform English kids at football? And why is that Holland, a country with a population approximately a mere fifth of England’s, can consistently produce wonderful players that put England’s to shame? Why does Italy, a smaller and economically inferior country to England, produce World-Cup winning sides?
In this country there is a fundamental problem at all levels. Be it grass roots or professional. At professional level, this country’s press champion a player like Frank Lampard. Now Lampard is not an awful player, but compare his technique to that of Cesc, Xavi, Deco, Ronaldinho or Bergkamp. Compare him to Zidane. Embarrassing isn’t it?
The there is Steven Gerrad. Who again, is a very good player but vastly overrated. Is Gerrard anywhere near as good as Patrick Vieira once was? Really? Gattuso? Nope. Watch both Champions league finals and see the manner in which Gerrard gets muzzled by Gattuso. Is Gerrard anywhere near Kaka’s class? Are you insane?
The captain of England, John Terry, acts with an arrogance that belies his limited talent. He is seen as some ‘corageous, braveheart’ defender. Apparently having a brain matter constituted of titanium makes one a fabulous defender. John Terry makes plenty of last-ditch tackles because he is positionally awful He is very slow: did anybody see the way David Villa easily breezed him for pace in Mestalla, despite Terry having had something like a 3 yard headstart? Terry earns ludicrous sums of money, despite not being anywhere near as good a defender as Kolo Toure. The worst crime in all this however is the complicity of the FA.
Anyone remember Emmanuel Petit getting a 3-match ban for putting his hands on Paul Durkin when we played Villa at Highbury? Terry grabs a card out of a referee’s hands and gets nothing. Terry consistently cheats, harangues referees and uses defamatory language and intimidation – and is supposed to be seen as an example to all English kids. Alan Shearer boots Neil Lennon in the head in an act of malicious cowardice and the FA refuse to sanction him. Joey Barton perniciously assaults Ousmane Dabo, beating him black and blue. Jermaine Pennant is a petty felon that need an e-tag as a means of protecting general society from his yobishness. Dadvid Bentley believed that merely being born English was a natural entitlement to starting matches ahead of Dennis Bergkamp.
I could go on. The point is, the culture in this country favours grafft over craft. England play, quite simply, absolutely dreadful football. No wonder Allardyce was a candidate for the job. If you compare England to even a country like Croatia, or even the Ivory Coast or Cameroon, the basic touch, technique and awareness is shocking. This is because schools and Fat Sam teach you how to ‘get in their faces’ and ‘let him know you’re there’
No wonder Wenger was treated with such initial disdain. Imagine the surprise at someone coming over here, and making their team play the ball on the floor, deploying a sound first-touch, awareness and technique. Blackburn are a perfect living example of this outrageous ethos. The anti-football ethos that is.
The bigger kids at school are favoured over the technical ones: Cesc, Kaka, Romario, Xavi, Messi, Deco, Iniesta, Savicevic. Hardly giants are they? The children in the UK sit at home with their Playstation 2s playing Hitman, whilst their Brazilian counterparts are out playing football on beaches. We have plenty of grass to play on but the kids do not use it.
Look at the Brazilian national side: how many of their World Cup side of 2002 actually played in Brazil? Gilberto (who then moved to us) and Reis Marcos. That’s it.
There is a pathetic culture of blame in this country however, which means that so long as the media stop fawning over thugs like Terry and pandering to mediocrity like Lampard, then England will continue to be also-rans. Fat Sam is the perfect embodiment of this culture of blame. Apparently, Fat Sam would have a 100% win record as a manager were it not for: the sunshine, the moonlight, the traffic, the police, the referee, the referee’s wife, the linesman, the linesman’s assistant etc.
Apparently every time England lose, Arsene Wenger is to blame. Yet why not look at the facts? Arsene Wenger has brought to this country: Vieira, Henry, Petit, Ljungberg, Pires, Anelka, Toure, Fabregas, Overmars.
Can any other manager claim to have brought as much foreign talent to this country? No. Steven Gerrard admitted that playing against Patrick Vieira brought out the best in his game, and improved his game drastically. Playing with top players improves your skill level. It’s basic.
Having a team of 11 Kevin Davies, Neil Armstrongs, Jermaine Jenases, Bentleys, Heskeys and Ashley Wrds is going to make the skill lvel worse, not better.
Finally, there is the obvious economic comparative advantage. If I told you all right now that Vieira, RVP, Cesc, Petit, Toure, Clichy, Anelka, Henry, Lehmann and Overmars pooled together all cost less than the overhyped ’saviour’ Wayne Rooney…you probably wouldn’t believe me.
But it’s the truth. You can add up the maths yourself. So it makes no economic sense either to purchase English players. You cannot pledge eternal predisposition to one particular kind of products solely based on nationality alone. This is ludicrous. Quality and cost-effectiveness has to come into it tat some stage – and when it does, buying English players makes no sense. Wenger has developed plenty of players in this league: Upson, Bentley, Pennant, Stokes, Stuart Taylor, Muamba etc.
The problems arise when bigoted morons like Fat Sam turns up at Newcastle, where he inherits an academy-based defence from Glenn Roeder- then proceeds to dismantle it by signing Brazilians like Cacapa, Frenchmen like Habib Beye and Czechs like Rozenhal. Oh and playing a French midfielder at left-back, as he does to detrimental effect with N’Zogbia.
The problem is not ‘foreigners’ it is the rubbish ones that are the problem: the crap ones you see at Bolton, at Newcastle, at Middlesboro et al.
Harry Redknapp went out in the summer and blew 6 million on David Nugent. Harry now feels as if he’s been robbed in broad daylight and is desperately trying to offload Nugent. Compare that to the ridiculously low-cost of Kanu, who has been their top striker for the past 2 and a bit seasons.
Blatter should keep his trap shut and concentrate his efforts a little more on where his next brown envelope with unmarked bills is coming from, and how much fatter his personal expenses account can become.
If he cares so much about fighting foreign influences then I suggest that he bgin with Thaksin Shinwatra, Malcolm Glazer, Roman Abramovich and Usmanov. There is one foreign invasion that needs to be halted asap, and that is the impending string of opportunistic criminal hounds, that intend to launder their ill-gotten gains through English football clubs.
Barking up the wrong bloody tree.
Rant over
By: ArsenalKenya on October 5, 2007
at 12:16 pm
Pedro, I totally agree with you.
Arsenalkenya, you are a star. Well written.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 12:23 pm
Just a quick comment on Sepp Blatter trotting out the quota thing again. He says that it’s better to safeguard the future of football by stopping teams having so many foreigners in their squads and giving chance to young domestic players. I ask him though, who would this actually benefit? The answer really is only those youngsters who live in big European countries. What message does this send to talented youngsters from Eastern Europe, South America and Africa? Basically the message is “we don’t want you here, the fame and fortune of the big leagues are reserved for English, Spanish and Italian young players i’m afraid.” I think it’s a bit of a disgrace actually.
By: Jimmy on October 5, 2007
at 12:29 pm
Excellent point, Jimmy. Just at the point where we should be applauding football as a multi-cultural, multi-national sport along comes Blatter to attempt to drag us back into the dark ages again. The rest of the world are trying to erase national boundaries but not FIFA oh no.
Raise the standards and let the locals compete with the rest in trying to meet or better them. It is the only way..and of course it is the Arsenal way.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 12:38 pm
G10, if you really do consider this game against Sunderland ( at home) as a test, then what will you label the game against Liverpool at Anfield?
By: Weah9 on October 5, 2007
at 12:42 pm
Frank
The oft-stated reason DD went was because he attempted to get SK to invest behind their backs so to lay the blame this at the door of PHW & DF is totally disingenuous. Neither are they without blame because it takes two to tango. However, there is no evidence that the Club is poorer without DD.
Pedro
As for whose money it is, of course the current board are going to earn out of the club. The opposition to Usmanov is more based on who he seems to be rather than him making a profit.
Does anyone think the board are doing us a favour? More to the point, they are more preferable than Usmanov. If Kroenke plays a part in blocking that then so be it. As I said the other day, I see no reason for change given things are being run well off the pitch. Some people may change their opinions about that if things go wrong on it.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on October 5, 2007
at 12:48 pm
Blatter is sufferin from the virus associated with many seats of presidency: CORRUPTION. His soul is cheap and can easily be bent to accomodate the wishes of the powerful and wealthy at the expense of the masses. He was heavily involved in the last world cup ticket scandals (even though his name was rarely mentioned). According to one CAF official, it was indeed Blatter who was bribed to give the world cup to the Germans (he apparently persuaded that fellow to abstain) in 2006 and had to be well bribed to grand it to S.A for 2010. Now against such background,one can be excused for thinking that all this quota talk is some else’s grand strategy.
WITH BLATTER AT THE HELM FIFA IS JUST ANOTHER POLITICAL ORGANIZATION WHICH ONLY CARE FOR THE ELITE’S PERSONAL AGENDAS.
By: Weah9 on October 5, 2007
at 1:10 pm
Frank, how many times?
Dein was shown the door because he went behind the back of the board and tried to pull the rug out from under the feet of the board and convince shareholders (LNBS as the rumours would have you believe) to sell their shares to Kroenke.
If it had come off then Dein would have succeeded in securing a combined total of 46% of the club into his and his then ally’s hands.
With the shares of Landsdowne Partners + a few other sellers secure, 51% of the club could have been painlessly annexed in no time at all.
That was Dein’s plan.
Even after that, the board clearly wanted Dein to stay on because they invited him to sign the lockdown agreement…
…and he refused to do so!
His position had become untenable. Can you really not see that?
Weah9, I don’t doubt our quality. We can go to Anfield a get a result.
What I’ve doubt for a couple of season is the mental approach of our players to games against teams like Sunderland. The players themselves have admitted that in the past, they didn’t treat teams like Sunderland with the respect they deserved. Hence the sloppiness, conceding the early goal, getting outfought etc
We seem to have turned the corner but after 9 wins in a row, will these players slip back into the bad old ways? I want to know if they’ve really matured.
By: G10 on October 5, 2007
at 1:18 pm
YW,
I don’t disagree with you at all. I am sure that DD is a particularly difficult person to deal with and difficult to trust. I just think that the club did very well with him on the Board, becuase he is a networker and an ideas man, hence AW etc and I am not at all sure that it was sensible to get rid of him. His linkup with Usmanov looks like an act of desperation to me and I am sure he will probably disappear from the scene shortly.
As for our current run of success. On the pitch it is brilliant and as one of a few who had faith in this squad during the summer I am particularly pleased to see the ‘team’ succeed. Off the pitch I think we are doing well and are living off the ‘capital’ of previous great ideas and deeds..the Emirates, refinancing, AW, young team being built over years etc. The current financial results look good and give us reason to rejoice…but they are current results and the financial context in years to come may be different.
I happen to feel that Kroenke may be a force for good in the club and I also think that the Board made a profound mistake when they got rid of DD becuase I think they acted rashly.
I have no liking for DD but I don’t much like PHW and DF either. They are all out for their own ends in one way another. As a supporter though I just hope that for the good of the club they can handle this.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 1:26 pm
G10,
How many times? You have just connected a whole load of disconnected facts and thrown in some conclusions to create a story. All the Board said was that they got rid of them because he went behind their backs. His crime appears to be that he tried to set up a deal with Kroenke, who they are now trying to do a deal with. Please remember that whilst all of this was happening DF got rid of some of his shares to Kroenke. There is a lot, lot more to this than we are being told.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 1:33 pm
sorry G10, ‘them’ means ‘him,
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 1:34 pm
“I also think that the Board made a profound mistake when they got rid of DD becuase I think they acted rashly.”
Christ alive.
Head –> Brick wall.
“disconnected facts”
The only disconnections we’re experiencing is in your thinking.
“All the Board said was that they got rid of them because he went behind their backs. His crime appears to be that he tried to set up a deal with Kroenke, who they are now trying to do a deal with. ”
You’ve outdone yourself here.
Dein tried to flog the club to Kroenke.
The Board are finalising a technical link up and making sure he’s committed to that link up in the long term rather than facilitating Usmanov and Dein… because they don’t want to sell the club.
There’s a slight difference, no?
You can’t see it, Franky boy?
Are the board sellers? No. That’s why there’s a lockdown in place. That’s why they’re finalising the details of a new lockdown.
Don’t put life long Arsenal fans like PHW and DF, men who describe themselves as custodians of the club, in the same basket as parasite like Kroenke and Usmanov.
It reflects badly on you more than anything.
By: G10 on October 5, 2007
at 1:53 pm
Hi G10, I am not. I am putting PHW and DF in the same basket as DD.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 1:54 pm
While I don’t completely agree with Blatter, I also don’t agree with the complete condemnation of English footballers. Was there no Tony Adams, David Seaman, Palour, Winterborn, Radford , Sammels, Wilson, Banks, Charlton, Shearer, Keegan, Keeown, Lineker, Giggs(born in England wanted to play for Wales)Ian Wright, Paul Scholes, Paul Ince to name but a few. Several of those World cups we went out on penalty goals not a true indication IMO of the better team. There is a need to develop British footballers the same as there is to develop football throughout the world. It seems a pity that IMO everyone wants to rubbish anything English why? I love the way we have developed our team, and would love if one day we had what Arsenal had in 1934, where 7 of the Arsenal players were in the England side. Call me old fashion and stupid but please stop grinding everything British especially English into the mud. Arsenal did not start with AW(the best manager we have ever had) it has long traditions and pride. We have changed and moved on but there is a place for English players who are capable of being in the team and needs the support of the FA to help encourage them to perform at their best just the same as any other country in the world. I love my Arsenal. (If I have mis-spelt anyones name, sorry; put it down to old age.)
By: Old Timer on October 5, 2007
at 2:06 pm
“I am putting PHW and DF in the same basket as DD”
One tried to flog the club behind everyone’s back to an American before finally selling his shares to a murky, sinister Russian who has started demanding a place on the board and dividends.
The others describe themselves as custodians of the club and are resolute in their opposition to prevent the last great English club from falling into the hands of foreign parasitic profiteers.
Yes, clearly they’re cut from the same cloth…
Only you, Frank.
Only you.
By: G10 on October 5, 2007
at 2:17 pm
Hi G10,
I don’t know if they are cut from the same cloth. At the time the Board made the decisions which I believe were a mistake DD had not sold his shares to anyone. DF however had sold some shares to Stan Kroenke.
DDs subsequent actions selling his shares to Usmanov, setting up R&W Holdings etc were of a shareholder with no access to the club. Whether that was a good thing or not I don’t know. Doesn’t look good at the moment. Certainly Craig Murray has smeared Usmanov’s image and most have followed him. Whether that was justified and what Craig Murray’s interests really are we can only speculate. But I think DD is going to have to be a magician to get out of this one..I watch with interest. Usmanov’s character assassination whether based on truth or not has certainly provided supporters with an excuse to revile him as a shareholder. Interestingly Kroenke got the same treatment without Craig Murray’s intervention.
Approaching this from a different angle..who did you think would buy ITV’s shares? And also I would be interested in who you thiink DD should have sold his shares to? Also whilst you are there who do you think DF will sell his shares to after the lockdown (let us say in in two or three years time)? And also who do you think will be the next Chairman?
Btw I am interested in the ‘custodians’ piece because I have never been comfortable with the club being ‘owned’ by someone on my behalf. I always feel that that that leaves fans as hostages to fortune or in this case someone else’s fortune.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 2:47 pm
um mad about ARSENAL!!!!!
By: Casicky on October 5, 2007
at 2:58 pm
Are you Little Plum, Casicky?
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 3:01 pm
do you realise how lucky we were that Kroenke bought ITV’s shares? they were on sale for years and then just months before Alisher Usmanov (AU) comes along Kroenke buys the shares that AU now wants and could have got for a relatively cheap price only a year ago. had he done so he would be looking at holding 35% of shares and making a bid for the club. OK I grant you he still cant do much with 35% if the board hold firm, but its a damn sight safer to have that 12.2% with Kroenke than AU I think.
It was lucky DD introduced kroenke to Arsenal!
By: gazzap on October 5, 2007
at 3:07 pm
Be careful, Gazzap, you are getting very close to stepping off the party line there.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 3:12 pm
I think fans of lower clubs have a daft notion that if a player threshold was brought in they would somehow be able to compete for the premiership. But in reality the rich clubs will always be at the top whatever the rules are. Arsenal currently have the best foreigners but if we had to we’d have the best english players because we are the wealthiest club in the country. the big 4 will always come out on top in the end.
would English players become better and would the England national team become better? almost certainly the answer is no. England were shite in the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s when the first division was mostly English players. Arsenal’s training methods might benefit a few of the players but our young english players in the U18’s said they could not fit in with the England style of play when they went away with them recently. they said they were trying to keep the ball on the ground and keep possession but their teammates were hoofing it up the pitch. even at 17, the bad habits have formed. Arsenals youngsters are a mere drop in the ocean.
By: gazzap on October 5, 2007
at 3:15 pm
Hi Old Timer,
I don’t think that most of us are anti-English, although I must say I don’t enjoy watching the national team. Surely the best way to get Englih players to a high standard is to have them comptete in a very high quality environment. If there is any bias at all it is in the FA rules which prevent Prem clubs with fantstic academies from picking up player outside of a very limited area. If you want England to produce great players limiting foreign players is not going to do it. At club level the multi-national nature of the game is fantastic and something to be praised. But nationalists will always denigrate it.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 3:18 pm
Gazzap
We were lucky weren’t we. DD introduced both Kroenke and Usmanov to the Club, the first in a marketing capacity and then as a potential new owner and as that route to the Chairman’s seat closed, he introduced another route to create more turbulence. Gosh, I feel honoured about that.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on October 5, 2007
at 3:23 pm
Frank
Where does ‘Patriotism’ end and Nationalism’ begin? The lines between the two are blurred at that point. Is there anything wrong in having an ideal of Arsenal fielding a squad of Englishmen? I don’t think so. There is something wrong in people slating the boss when there are not enough technically gifted Englishmen available but the ideal is OK?
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on October 5, 2007
at 3:25 pm
Don’t say I didn’t warn you, Gazzap.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 3:25 pm
Hi YW,
Well actually yes I do believe that there is something wrong with having that ideal. I think that patriotism is an artificial and somewhat manipulative construct usually used sometimes rightly and sometimes wrongly to co-erce the population into acting in a particular way. Nationalism seems to have become synonymous with fascism/racism hasn’t it?
I am not sure that Arsenal ever had a team of Englishmen even in the Dial Square, Royal Arsenal, Woolwich Arsenal days did it. After all it was created by a couple of Scotsman.
On a very practical note a very large proportion of the fans are not English.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 3:46 pm
The essence of my mail was the continuous knocking of anything English. The current crop of English players representing England at the moment leave lot to be desire, but having said that there are players on the horizon who may change that position. To say that teams during the 70’s 80’s and 90’s are S….e, means to say that teams such as Liverpool Leeds Arsenal and Manu were a load of S…te too. I disagree. 1970 World cup, England played very well but for the food poisioning of Banks the world’s best goal keeper things may have been different but to say they were sh..e crap.The 1982 England team against Germany was Peter Shilton, Mick Mills (captain), Kevin Sansom, Phil Thomson, Terry Butcher, Graham Rix , Bryan Robson, Ray Wilkins, Steve Coppell, Trevor Francis (Tony Woodcock 77), Paul Mariner. we didnt lose a game and drew with the winners Germany. 1986 the hand of god match, if cheating is the way to win we lost. 1992 semi finalists. Two periods we failed to make the finals, and yes our football was not the same as the Italians etc. But in the early part of the 70’s 80’s we never had players dying on the ground screaming they had been hit by bullets when no one was around example a recent match in the CL where the goal keeper dies almost five minutes after the fan supposed to have hit him? no surrounding the ref no etc. crap that has entered our game. It would have been wonderful if we had an England manager such as AW; but he is a rare gift. Some of the comments on this blog at times border on bigotry. To me it get boring and defeat the love of the game; which in case some people have forgotten was invented by the working class of England. I love my country and i love my Arsenal.
By: Old Timer on October 5, 2007
at 4:00 pm
I don’t know what to say to help you, Old Timer. I guess we are all different and we all have different Arsenals. As for England, I have never connected the club with the national team.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 4:09 pm
Why is it wrong to love your country Frank? Why is it wrong to expect your team to be the best and proudly follow them? Other people are respected for loving their country, I see no harm in it provided Bigotry does not play a hand. Young Lewis Hamiliton is paying the price for being English at the moment, and talking of walking away from his sport. I am thrilled that young players the likes of Theo (Arsenal) Panasar in cricket, they are Englishmen and proud of their country and represent our country. At every Olympics athletics from around the world proudly display their countries flag, great its like belonging to a team. You remember the hard times we faced as Arsenal fans, but we still proudly supported our team. England is my team and like Arsenal I will support them through thick and thin.
By: Old Timer on October 5, 2007
at 4:11 pm
Thats it I’ve had my say off for a beer, as my son would say silly old Fa.t, Perhaps he’s got it right.
By: Old Timer on October 5, 2007
at 4:13 pm
Enjoy your beer, Old Timer. I certainly do remember the bad times and I have really enjoyed the last eleven years.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 4:36 pm
Forgot have to agree on the stupid ‘ Prem clubs with fantastic academies from picking up player outside of a very limited area.’ What numb skull thought that idea through. But tel the truth when England won the 1966 world cup were you not cheering on England? Come on tell the truth.
By: Old Timer on October 5, 2007
at 4:43 pm
Remember Frank if you tell lies you wont go to heaven with the rest of the Arsenal stars.
By: Old Timer on October 5, 2007
at 4:45 pm
Oh yes, of course I was. If I am really telling the truth I also thought that Jimmy Greaves was a fine player and should have played in the final, but Howard will call me a spud for that. Times are different though and we do move on don’t we? Lets enjoy the current Arsenal squad whilst we can..it is a rare privilege watching a master produce a side like this. We are the lucky ones. Have a great weekend, Old Timer especially on Sunday.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 4:49 pm
Ditto, and my dad saying why are you watching England play Scotland those games are never going to end in a score more than 3-1, and that Saturday England won 9 3 with me cheering on who with Smith of spuds put the goals in Your statement of days gone by its not the player its the shirt they wear. You and I for Howards information are true gunners fans.
Yes I know I will have a great Sunday go you gunners.
By: Old Timer on October 5, 2007
at 4:56 pm
Gazzap
DD set up the link with Kroenke originally as a partnership. The Arsenal to help with technical aspect of Colorado Rapids operations and we were to benefit from its wide market in the US. Somehow DD convinced Kroenke that he could buy Arsenal and the rest is history. The whole threat of takeover we’re fighting every day is because of one person’s personal ambition. I personally hope that the Arsenal will get through this, God willing and nothing untoward will happen to the Arsenal.
By: Howard on October 5, 2007
at 5:42 pm
Old Timer, I don’t have a problem with your position at all. Of course you want your national team to do well and of course you would love it if Arsenal players featured for them. However, I think it is the way in which this objective is achieved that is the issue.
Arsenal have very high standards for the type of player who will succeed at the club. The grass roots training is not really there in most of the UK so English youngsters miss out on the level of coaching required to develop their technical skills at an early age. Any quality English players who emerge despite this are thus highly sought after in the home market and hugely overpriced as well.
Arsenal have not been in a position to splash out on this type of player, hence Arsene’s recent approach to team building. However, the one time Arsene dipped into the UK market recently, we get the classic example of this in young Theo Walcott. He is a raw talent, but Arsene had to pay way over the odds for him compared to what he would have paid for an overseas player of the same age. Meanwhile, despite his price-tag, Theo is not the finished article, Arsene is having to use him sparingly on the wing to allow him time to develop the technical skills he never learnt at Southampton.
Arsenal is also hampered by the FA’s own rules about not being able to scout youngsters for the Academy outside a certain geographical area within the country. With the number of teams in London, the competition is immense for local talent. But, in spite of all the restrictions, just take a look at the current Arsenal academy players – most of them are British and some are likely to come through in time having been schooled in the Arsenal way. Even those who have not made it at Arsenal, but have careers in the premiership and lower divisions owe something to Arsenal’s investment in their development.
These are the facts that I wish were taken into account before knee-jerk approaches and unfair criticism is bandied about. Quotas will only benefit the top teams who can afford to snap up the best of British at over-inflated prices, whilst reducing the quality further down. The National Associations should pay more attention to the cause rather than the symptom of the problem.
By: Passenal on October 5, 2007
at 5:53 pm
I just wanted to say something about Craig Murray — we do indeed know a great deal about Murray, we do not need to “speculate” about him at all. His work is a matter of public record. For anyone who follows or is involved in issues related to foreign policy, human rights, Eastern European politics, Murray is a well known name.
The Blair gov’t fired him when Murray publicly criticized Blair’s policies in Uzbekistan and Blair’s foreign policy in general. Murray has for years spoken out on human rights issues, often making himself the target of death threats.
He is highly respected because he keeps himself independent, puts himself in the firing line, and documents information that make powerful governments uncomfortable.
Murray is not the only source of accusations against Usmanov — Human Rights Watch and AI also have info on him — garnered from activists, dissident lawyers and journalists from Uzbekistan.
By: marcus on October 5, 2007
at 5:55 pm
Frank
I’ve tried to refrain from responding to your PR work for DD but I can’t it back. It’s just absurd. Do you know how DF came to sell his shares? He was approached by a broker, urging him to round up his shares. It came out that the broker was working for DD and Kroenke. DD used the same approach to have Nina’s shares sold but his identity was leaked to the Board by the broker. When asked to participate in lock-down agreement to protect Arsenal from a hostile takeover he said no. Apparently, he was looking to sell his shares to someone who will eventually takeover Arsenal and make him Chairman. After he left, he still approached Kroenke to sell his shares. kroenke refused and he flew around the world looking for someone to buy Arsenal.
I don’t know why you don’t see that DD’s action is injurous to Arsenal if not resisted? Usmanove now wants to be paid dividends from the club; is he not the guy DD loyalists have been talking about investing in Arsenal? He’s shown that he’s more interested in taking money from the club than investing in it. All this hullabaloo has come about because of one man’s ambition to be the alpha and omega of Arsenal. His new collaborators have seen how dangerous he can be to their interest; I mean Usmanove and Kroenke. Kroenke has already excommunicated him and it looks like he’ll be thrown out by Usmanov. The guy did well for Arsenal but he’s untrustworthy. Move on if he asks you to wait.
By: Howard on October 5, 2007
at 6:11 pm
Frankie boy: you oughta just give it up and move on man
By: Pigpen on October 5, 2007
at 6:57 pm
Pigpen! Is that THE Pigpen of the Dead.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 7:26 pm
Frank, please believe the following is not meant to attack you. I’m only trying to understand your viewpoint. My sincere apologies for the very long post that follows.
I understand that you refuse to paint PHW and DF and the rest of the board as the guys in white hats in this battle. I think you’re right to do so. I agree that Edelman and PHW should be more circumspect in their comments to the press, they make things worse by some of their outbursts. I think they hurt their own cause by their initial public comments re Kroenke.
I also understand that you refuse to forget what Dein brought to Arsenal. I think we saw hints of how his departure affected Wenger’s work in the summer with reports of AW being forced to do so much more work than he was used to. I thought this was worrying, esp. because it seemed as if AW could not find anyone he trusted to replace Dein to do the work he never had to worry about before. Wenger himself has said that Dein’s sudden departure affected him a great deal.
I don’t think any gooner believes that people like PHW and DF are saints without any sense of self-interest. For me, even with their public pronouncements and this lockdown agreement, I think we can only trust them so far, and I’m not sure how much. All I can do is hope that they stand firm, that they mean what they say. If they eventually renege on their declarations, then they will deserve all the condemnation that fans will throw at them.
I also agree with you that we cannot know everything that’s going on behind the scenes. Wenger’s own private thoughts on all this continue to perplex me.
But we do know that it is Dein who has brought this instability and turmoil to the club. The Board are not entirely innocent, but he is the prime reason that we are now facing a takeover. Let’s remember that this entire conflict inside the Board began due to a fundamental disagreement between Dein and the others.
Dein believed that Arsenal needed to catch up to other clubs and that the way to do that was to bring in outside investment from a very rich source–no matter who it was. From Dein’s own comments to the press, he felt that Arsenal would fall behind as more and more rich investors bought up more clubs. My impression (only an impression) is that he equated the club’s recent drought of trophies to this spate of club takeovers. The Abramovich factor seems to have really influenced his thinking, far more than the rest of the Board. I find that very interesting because the rest of the Board hadn’t lost faith in Arsenal’s future whereas Dein obviously had.
Further, beyond Dein’s position re outside investment, I think it’s a fair assumption given subsequent events to believe that he wanted to make sure this outside source was an ally who could help him wrest greater, decisive control over the club. I think it’s fair to think that he feels that the rest of the Board are holding the club back while he represents progressive, hard-headed, forward thinking. He saw himself as the club’s savior. Can I prove this? No — but these are reasonable conclusions given some of his own comments about his vision for the club.
Obviously the Board knew Dein’s position and when suddenly they saw him in some sort of secret alliance with Kroenke (beyond the original partnership deal), the Board understandably reacted. I don’t think there’s anything surprising about their reaction. They felt Dein was maneuvering to change the club’s ownership without their knowledge and against their will — any Board would’ve reacted the way they did. You may be right about them acting rashly without trying to first hash out some accommodation with Dein but clearly the Board felt threatened and betrayed — Dein had been maneuvering without their knowledge to change the club’s controlling ownership. In many companies or organizations, such a move would automatically generate the same kind of swift response he received.
I honestly wish that somehow all parties could’ve reached some kind of compromise and that Dein were still on the Board but given these two diametrically opposed positions-–how could they reach accommodation? Compromises are possible only when some degree of satisfaction can be claimed by both parties – there was no room for that in this case.
The initial reaction of the Board (and that of the fans) to Kroenke was also perfectly understandable: they (and we) saw him as a billionaire with absolutely no connection to the club trying to take control, allied with Dein whose ambition was to change the club’s controlling ownership — again, bringing turmoil to the club.
If the club had been in real trouble, if this Board had been running the club’s finances into the ground and proven itself wholly irresponsible, if the Board had lost the fans’ trust by concrete, demonstrated actions and policies – then it’s likely our response to Kroenke and Dein’s maneuvers would’ve been different. But this was not the case. Dein saw a need while the fans and the Board saw none: that is the reason why we’re all at this point right now.
Your constant reminder that the Board is hardly a paragon of virtue ignores this basic reality – of course the Board should be looked at with hard-headed realism but their demonstrated track record shows them to be known and acceptable administrators of the club. If it had been made clear that Kroenke were just another shareholder with no suggestion of a takeover on his part, you would not have heard any fan uproar. This is why fans can now live with Kroenke. And as unsavory as Usmanov is, I think most fans could live with even him as a minority shareholder with no control over the club. In that case, too, there would be little uproar.
What we know is this: the Board have run the club well. The Arsenal FC was never in any trouble, and is not now. Dein has maneuvered to make dramatic changes in the controlling ownership of the club. Dein has sold his large number of shares to a total stranger, a billionaire who has connections to a gov’t known for its human rights abuses and who knows absolutely nothing about English football or Arsenal. Dein has also set up a company with this same new shareholder that has as its sole purpose some vaguely named business “to the benefit” of Arsenal.
Because of Dein, in 5-10 years time, Arsenal might well be entirely owned by Alisher Usmanov – whose notions of running a football club are known only to him – a potential owner who (on his say-so) we all have to trust won’t affect team matters, won’t interfere with the manager. A shareholder who is now asking to be paid dividends – something the Board has never taken advantage of themselves.
So because of Dein, we have two choices: a) an imperfect Board with a demonstrated track record of administering the club responsibly, a Board that does not profit personally from sharheolder dividends (preferring instead to put the money back into the club) and letting the manager do his work undisturbed; b) a total stranger who we know nothing about, who makes nice noises about being a fan, talks about his portfolio, and asks to be paid dividends.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t.
And yes, both the Board and the fans are now thinking better of Kroenke simply because he looks COMPARATIVELY better than Usmanov — he at least has some kind of sports background and has never made the kinds of public comments that Usmanov has. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this reaction on our part.
By: marcus on October 5, 2007
at 7:45 pm
Old timer, its your right to be a big England fan, personally I much prefer Arsenal but there is no denying that England have not really looked like winning anything since 1966. sure we played a few good games and flattered to deceive – we still do that today. what I am saying is there is no difference in the quality of football played today and that of 1972-1995 (we are a consistently a top 5-10 team in the world). the new influx of foreign players has not adversely affected the national team. in fact the english players get to play against and train with the best in the world. if that doesn’t make them slightly better then nothing will.
England are much like Tottenham decent defenders and strikers but cant keep possession in midfield so can never really compete with the best.
Thats down to training from a young age. wenger is currently training english boys in a continental style and by all accounts being very successful at it. if England had 100 more wengers the national team might be OK in 10 years time.
By: gazzap on October 5, 2007
at 7:49 pm
Marcus
That’s a brilliant piece. Something I have not had the patience to break it down, step by step in a detailed manner.Iresorted to emotions and all sorts of name calling because I love Arsenal and don’t want her virginity to be lost.
Thank you and believe this closes the chapter on Dein’s eog trip
By: Howard on October 5, 2007
at 8:14 pm
Hi Marcus,
I think Pigpen wants me to go, but before I do.
Thank you for taking the time to think it all through. I agree with your assessment. For me none of the Board are covered in glory over this affair and their self interest has been shed in a stark light. As fans we are very vulnerable.
I guess the only thing that I would add, and it is obvious from previous posts is that although I have no allegiance to the Board or any member of it, I am totally behind AW and his squad. Frankly provided I know that AW is going to be there in the future I will cheerfully turn up at Wembley to watch us play (every week I mean rather than just for the finals). For me he is the key just as Chapman was so many years ago.
The squad he has constructed are magnificent and the youngsters coming through are in the same mould. It is does’nt get better than this. If people are going to start demonstrating against shareholders I hope they don’t forget to get behind the players.
I am going to stop this stuff now because I know I am pissing a lot of people off, and I am boring people witless. Here’s to a fantastic club whoever the Board may be.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 8:27 pm
The day of the long comments continues…
Frank
The ideal underpins something that can exist alongside a successful Arsenal and simply put, it means that English footballers have improved technique which is beyond them at present. Therefore it is good for the game in this country. However, that does not mean that there is any xenophobic reaction; au contraire, it is a desire that the native footballers are the best in the world, a desire that is (a) not unique to Arsenal and (b) something that Arsene has said on too many occasions for it to be a media bite.
Patriotism in its purest sense originates from historical tribal origins, a behavourial aspect from within that is stronger than other primordial urges. Take for example the Spanish; they are proud of their towns that originate from, patriotic to them. That is not artificial; it is a feeling. Some feel it stronger than others. In England, and England alone in the UK, Patriotism is not welcomed because of its assumed association with the Far Right of the political spectrum.
Nationalism is artificial. It is bigotry disguised under a patriotic badge for political ends. There are those who misguidedly believe the two are intertwined but those who promolgate Nationalism are well aware of the difference but seek deliberately to confuse.
As for Arsenal, you are correct in asserting that there has never been a fully English squad. However, the notion that there could (not should) be one must not be dismissed for the reasons of disliking patriotism.
>On a very practical note a very large proportion of the fans are not English.
Which has nothing to do with it at all. Were the nationalities of the players a genuine concern, there would be no English supporters of the Club. I have not met one person who supports Arsenal any more or any less on those grounds. As supporters, we want the best for the Club and if it is achieved through signing Martians, who gives a toss? However, looking at the broader picture, English football benefits from players coming through the ranks which Arsene is trying to do; not deliberately but to some extent he has to due to the regulations governing Football and Work Permits.
International Football has a bad name at the moment, mainly due to friendlies. Personally, I used to like watching those matches but with Eriksson changing almost all of the team in those games, they became little more than glorified training routines and a number of players who were patently not International Class made appearances, devaluing the concept that Internationals represented the peak of football.
YW
By: Yogi's Warrior on October 5, 2007
at 8:30 pm
Marcus,
Just one last thing. Try to examine Craig Murray’s motives a little more closely. He is a zealot and an egotist and that should ring alarm bells. Be careful which horse you hitch your wagon to.
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 8:34 pm
Hi YW,
I just don’t see the point in aiming for a fully English club team and I like the fact that we are a multi-national team. As for patriotism the usual reason for mustering such emotions in the population is to get them to fight and die in great numbers isn’t it. Sometimes that is justified and sometimes not. Not sure what patriotism has got to do with football. I am patriotic to Arsenal I suppose is the best way to put it.
Thanks for all the work you put into this site, YW
Take care
Frank
By: Frank on October 5, 2007
at 8:42 pm
[...] I forgot to add the list of the players in yesterday’s Simpsonize Me pic; it was as [...]
By: Arsene and Roy - The Happy Couple « A Cultured Left Foot on October 6, 2007
at 8:19 am
gazzap me old mate, just because I support England in football, does that mean I can not support Arsenal, England ie cricket, Hockey, Rugby, the Lions (have a joint UK team), Great Britain in the Olympics, boxing and British drivers in motor sport. I think Yogi is spot on its just a tribal thing, nothing else. If we fail which we have in many things it should not stop someone supporting them. Arsenal were not always the best team in English football,(to me they always were), long periods we suffered; and at times it was difficult to read the newspaper on a Saturday evening. But things change we are in the sunlight at the moment,(and long may we remain there) but there will come a time when we wont have AW and things will go wrong; but that will never stop me supporting them. Every time some one says that countries must do more to develop players in their own country, this site and others come out in force to have a go at English players, and England. Why do English players cost more; its very simple they are a great marketing tool in England, Britian. Example Lewis Hamilton, motor sport has gone gang busters, why because Lewis is English. English,German,Italians,Australians where ever want sporting heroes, and they are god sends for whatever sport they play in. Sport can overcome racial barriers, religion and help enrich and unite society; as others say it does not matter what colour,what social standing or what part of the country they come from its the shirt they wear. All I am saying is it is boring to continually knock England.
Yogi I do differ in one point if Arsenal ever had a woman playing for them, (mens team) then sorry I would find it impossible to follow them. But that is just a generation thing. Your piece was first class shows what education can do for someone.
By: Old Timer on October 6, 2007
at 8:25 am
To arsenal player,
i am a arsenal supporter.i am very proud for that.
your plaing style is very beautiful.i know that is very difficult.i can say that arsenal are world best team at my heart.i want to see time of your glory.
By: Han Phyo Aung on July 5, 2008
at 11:08 am