Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | September 5, 2007

Arsene And The Youth Of Today

Thursday or Friday, apparently, will be the day when there is more news about Arsene’s contract. The cynic in me would not be surprised if it was an announcement that there will be more news the following week. Not that I doubt that he will sign, more that he enjoys stringing the media along, knowing that they are getting all ‘uppity’ with the the continued comments of ‘you’ll be the first to know‘ or ‘when there’s news, we’ll tell you‘.

Warming to a theme that he started a few days ago, he responded to questions about the lack of spending this summer with,

We want to be faithful to the policy in the Club. We have a team that can develop in the next four or five years. I feel we are in the process of turning Cesc Fabregas, Denilson and Abou Diaby into world-class players. It may not be so long before we are on top again. If you ask me if we have the potential to achieve success this year then I say ‘yes without a doubt’. It is important not to relate only success with money.

The issue of English youngsters not making the grade though was highlighted by Stuart Pearce when he echoed the point that Trevor Brooking has been making for years,

The one thing that hit home to me was sitting down and looking at the fixtures and how many players under 21 that were worth me going to watch. The numbers aren’t very big. Is it worth me going to see Liverpool? No. There’s no one on show. Chelsea? No, one on show. Manchester United?

Noticeably absent from his list is Arsenal yet in the First Team, we do not help him that much with only Walcott and Hoyte being available to the Under-21’s. Regularly chastised in the Sports pages for not fielding an Englishman, it seems that we are not worse than any other team with the development of players, far from it. Indeed, Chelsea and Liverpool cannot lay claim to anything like the number of players who have trained at Arsenal and United who go on loan to other clubs or who make the grade elsewhere.

However, Pearce is not blind to where the problem lies,

There’s no point in saying that’s acceptable – we’ve got to say what are we going to do about it? Can we improve the standard of coaching at a younger age?

From an Arsenal perspective, does Arsene have any duty to England’s National Team, to develop the youngsters into first team players? The truthful answer is No. He has a duty to Arsenal Football Club to field the best team available in his opinion. The answer is a double-edged sword. In the past, he has been reticent to sign English players, reflecting that they are not of sufficient technical quality for him. He has never been reluctant to train them though, evidenced by the strong homegrown element in all of his Reserve squads. It is pointed out that many never make the grade at the Club. Very true but when you have had to dislodge players who won many medals and proven their worth, it requires a lot of patience on the part of the youngster and time, which must be quite soul destroying for them, knowing that they could get into a first team elsewhere.

And therein is the crux. In order to protect the smaller clubs from the Premiership, the FA agreed to introduce the ruling that means unless a player lives within, I think, one hour of the Club, he cannot train there. It means that the London teams are now fighting over a limited number of players and not scouting the Country to the extent that they used to so someone living in the Lake District, for example, has to want to play for Carlisle; if they don’t, professional football passes them by. They cannot go to Newcastle or another North Eastern team until they are over sixteen by which time they have made other plans with their lives or are involved in another sport. The crucial age of their development will have been left to someone not necessarily of a high standard of coaching, carrying out the role for the enjoyment as opposed to being under the guidance of a Professional. That is not to decry their involvement; without them, there would be no coaching, leisure time spent doing other things.

However, for all of the FA complaining, they are the cause of the situation; they can rectify it but are unwilling to do so. They persist in allowing Clubs to bring in foreign youngsters whilst limiting their access to ‘homegrown’ talent. From an Arsenal perspective, that does not worry me for the manager has access to one of the best scouting networks in the World and a reputation for developing players. I do not know the statistics but a high percentage of those who train at Arsenal seem to be able to carve a career in the Professional Game. With that in mind, it seems ludicrous that we are limited to basically a hundred mile radius around the Club.

If England are to progress at Internationals, the FA have to enable Clubs to cast a wider net. ’til Tomorrow.


Responses

  1. And we apparently have a number of potential future England players on our books like Lansbury, Randall, Watts, Gibbs, Simpson etc…

  2. You highlight the problem perfectly Yogi. I dont think this having to be an hour from the ground is going to work, the real solution is getting our youngsters to a technically higher standard earlier as their euro/world counterparts are leaving them behind. Im certain that they are up to it its a case where the FA need to look at the level of coaching at a younger age, have they for instance asked Wenger what he thinks they should do? i wonder. There shouldnt be a problem financially as there is no more bigger pot of gold than there is presently. The top clubs are going to fight tooth and nail should they try and introduce a maximum foreign player restriction and i know Arsenal will go to the highest court and hold up the Euro right to work law to avoid it. Yes your right Arsene has no responsibility in terms of having english players in the team, his job is to have a trophy winning team whatever the players passport. Its going to be a real problem soon as when the likes of Gerrard, Rooney and Terry get older who is going to replace them players from the Championship! i doubt that is going to be anywhere competitive enough to compete. Its a REAL problem.

  3. Til tomorrow??

    You sure this time?

  4. With regards to the clubs having wider nets to trawl national waters, really good point Yogi. Had never really thought deeply about it but you explain a perspective perfectly. I have to say, the international game has diminished in importance to me as I have got older. If there were more of these England players in our club shirt I may care more, but simply not at the sacrificing of world class talent. It needs solving, but not by the Arsenal. Our house is in shape. Our needs come first.

  5. duke

    Two things in life are certain – death and taxes as the saying goes. The other thing that is certain is that one and a half hour’s sleep in a night due to a child being unwell means no post.

    Veteran

    The problem today is that the imbalance between the Premiership and the rest financially means that the gap is made up by Transfer Fees. The prices charged by the lower leagues for their players is out of proportion to the talent. Unless that is addressed by funnelling more money into the rest of football, the big clubs will be very reticent to invest in English talent; the point is coming soon when more and more players will sign shorter contracts and let them run down to get a move.

    Look at Curtis Davies; £10m for a player not proven at the highest level. Who can blame the big clubs for looking abroad to get value for their money.

    YW

  6. Good piece again YW. Hope your kid gets well really soon.

  7. The overinflated values of English players is getting worse now that all the middle tier Premiership culbs are flush with cash. The problem is that they do not have the well established scouting networks of the bigger clubs and therefore they go for pretty much exactly the same players, namely the higher profile English names and their vaules soar as a result.

  8. It is in the FA’s court really.

    They should surely realise by now that their current junior & youth system is patently just not working. They cancelled the National Youth Academy because of their ridiculous overspend on Wembley.

    It is no good bringing in a quota system because that is simply dumbing down.

    There does not appear to be enough players coming through the lower leagues to the top levels. This is more to do with the quality rather than how expensive they are. How many quality England squad players have come through the lower leagues for example?

    It is a matter of investment of proper facilities & good coaching being available nationwide at a very early age.

    It is also a responsibility of the PL clubs to contribute significantly to such a scheme, & have their own development schemes as Arsenal are doing at the Rocastle Centre.

  9. Its not only coaching and club radiuses that set the english youth football back , as like all western countries we embark on other sporting activities ,such as cricket,golf,basketball,rugby,water sports and just about everything else from archery to motorcross .Also a HUGE factor is the CRAP weather the UK has .
    i cant imagine too many 8 year olds standing in the rain for a week training !?

    The facts are most south american , african and asian nations are poor and have been force fed football from a young age .(and also the weathers better :) ). Every male watches it and been brought up on it (like my son will be)! The facts are alot of english males simply arnt interested in the football pro-rata, i meet many english ex-pats here , and other than one friend , no one really cares about the football !
    Rugby or the cricket maybe even F1 racing but
    to be honest most english lads i meet really arnt interested .

    As for is arsene duty bound to produce english talent ?, i feel the answer is yes its every managers duty to try and promote local talent,
    Arsene is in ENGLAND ISNT HE ?? Managing an english club?
    and if that isnt the case arsene should not comment on THEO BEING READY to pearce and just consentrate on arsenal FC.

  10. I agree with Flint, except to say that I couldn’t give a stuff about the England team. The squad, the managers, the press and the appalling Beckham effect have gotten so ugly that I can hardly bear to watch their games. Any Dutch guys out there know how we can tune in to Holland games?

  11. Yogi,
    I wish your kid a speedy recovery.
    Both you and Flint make valid points.
    The article at the link below makes interesting and pertinent reading:
    http://tinyurl.com/3829yn

  12. What amazes me, is why the media feels England has the right to produce a thick stream of talent.

    They’re talking today of wanting three English players coming through in each team, first team presumably. Now at the top four clubs for example, if that was the case, then England would be the greatest football nation in the world.

    Arsenal get the pick of the best players in the world, and rightfully so. If we can have that pick, then say we had three young English players in our team, and one from Brazil, that would say that England produces three times as many world-class-players as Brazil. It doesn’t make sense to me.

    They need to realise that the top four clubs can only deal with the cream of talent, and they shouldn’t worry about the number that are coming through there, but concentrate their attentions on the ones that are. That the likes of Walcott and Hoyte can compete for a position in our team, is a great testament to their talent.

    England are producing good quality players still, they keep coming through. How many top-class players do they think England can produce. 100, 1000. Has England ever had more than 6-7 world class players, and the rest made up of good players. It’s the same for most countries. France doesn’t have an ever-lasting supply of world class players either. Who are their great strikers coming through?, they’re back to Anelka now after all this time, and he’s become their main striker. If there’s a player that is in Arsenal’s team, then almost certainly, they will be in France’s team. Gael Cliche for example, it’s inconceivable that he won’t be France’s left back in the years to come, I don’t care who is playing left-back for them, he won’t be as good as Cliche.

    If Arsenal had twenty young French superstars coming through, I’d say yes, England have a problem, but we don’t. We have as many young English talents coming through as we have French, Dutch, Spanish. ie. One or two. If one of those comes through to become a first team regular, then that’s a sensation, and they’re a guaranteed England international. They have to be to make it into our team.

    The media vastly under-estimate how good you have to be to make it at the top level now. Arsenal have probably produced more English talent than any other in recent years, as Yogi has pointed out. Unfortunately those players have fitted into the very good category, rather than world class, and that’s why they had to move on.

  13. I can’t believe the FA haven’t change that 90 minute rule, no use blaming the premiership for the fall of English football.

    There is just not enough talent within that 90 minutes to go around the clubs in london or Manchester so clubs have no choice but go overseas.

    In addition the infrastructure for early development of talent is just not in place, how hard it is to look at other countries like France, Holland, Brasil, etc. see what works and what can be implemented in the UK.

  14. I’m sorry but it’s not Arsene Wenger’s fault and it’s not the overinflated price of English players either.
    It’s the society we live in. A 17 year old like Cesc doesn’t go out clubbing, pissing it up, doing coke and the rest of the shit. The likes of Pennant, Dyer, Rooney, etc. do.

    Until they give the football the priority it deserves, they’ll never develop, which is why the best young talent comes from overseas.

    How much money did we waste on Pennant?

    And for what return? He’s not exactly an England regular is he!

  15. There is a lot to what you say, Harry, but it is unfair to tar them all with the same brush.

    Hope young YW recovers quickly.

  16. arsene wenger has finally spoken on an issue that
    i got my arse-nal ripped in half for saying in the off season ..

    arsene
    ———————————————————
    When asked if he was still motivated to go on at Arsenal he replied: “Yes, absolutely. I am very motivated. With all the young players I signed,

    ‘I feel a kind of responsibility.’ to stay
    ———————————————————
    i said the same statement at the start of the off season here and everyone said it wouldnt happen til january minimum… or until close to expiry.
    Well its good to see common sence prevails .
    and for you people who told me i was wrong back then ..
    (and you know who you are)

    I fart in your general direction
    (john cleese :holy grail )

  17. This is really about:

    the quality of the football education & coaching that boys receive up until the age of 16 or so;

    the quality of the coaches doing the coaching;

    the preference in this Country for getting stuck in, being competitive & loads of physical effort, as opposed to an emphasis on developing technical ability, tactical awareness & knowledge, and mental strengths;

    the vision held by English/British managers & coaches of how the game should be played;

    the misplaced expectations by past & current generations of English/British players that they have a “right” to play professional football, irrespective of their technical ability, tactical awareness & knowledge, apptitude for the game, and the environment (now a global one) in which the game is being conducted;

    the rise and development of the global football economy, and what this means in terms of the behaviour & practices of club directors, managers, players and wanna-be-players;

    the role & expectations of the media;

    the role & expectations of fans.

  18. Brilliant post – I never realised there was a 100Mile constraint on recruitment?

    Funny how Trevor Brooking never brings that up…..

  19. 2 things really, for the most part the article is spot on.

    I coach an under 7s team and have my FA Level 1 coaching badge, as do all the coaches at my club, some have higher. We have kids as young as 4 and 5 turning up week in week out – even when it is raining and i dont want to be there… The talent is there even at this age group and at older ages within the club.

    As for academies there are plus points and minus points but the thing is they have now been going for about a decade, over the next few years we should see an increase in extremely well coached local and predominantly english players coming through. using Arsenal as an example if you go through the under 19s down there are 3 or 4 players from the club in the england team who have been taught the Arsenal way. That will benefit them and the england team going forward.

    That said, I’d rather watch the Arsenal

  20. i read all your points and i think they are valid but i would like to ask 2 questions 1)When was the last time England one a major tournament? 2) when did foreign players started coming over in droves? If u really think about it England failed to qualify for the World Cup in USA ‘94 there not many foreign players in the league, by pointing that out i am trying to show you that foreign players dont affect the development of english players that much. it boils down to the coaching at grassroots not the end product (Premier League)

  21. Andy

    I hope I got it across that I don’t think that the Coaches at the bottom of the ladder are the problem; it is the structure that is wrong.

    Clay

    Comparing now with 90 – 94 is like Chalk and Cheese. Back then, Charles Hughes’ ‘direct’ theory was God and the England manager backed that to the hilt. A true disciple if ever there was one.

    The problem is not that Foreign Players are over here, it’s the cost of purchasing Native players. Premiership clubs cannot develop all of the talent, there has to be some done outside of their scope. But when they come to try to buy it, the disproportionate pricing makes a foreign player more viable.

    The style of play has changed immensely in the last decade but those coming through are not technically adept as they perhaps should be. It is those players coming through in maybe four years time that ought to show that improvement.

    YW

  22. Here is a list of players who are currently at Arsenal or have grown up through the Arsenal youth scheme and represent England at various levels.

    Full international:
    Bentley
    Walcott
    Cashly Cole
    Pennant

    U21:
    Hoyte (Justin)

    U19
    Randall
    Connolly
    Butcher
    Simpson
    Rodgers

    U17
    Murphy
    Lansbury
    Hoyte (Gavin)
    Steer
    Barnett (Now Everton)

    U16
    Rehme ????
    Wilshire
    Cruise
    Watt
    Frimpong

    Arsene started the Arsenal Academy in 1999 (I believe) and it is well understood that you need to get youngsters at about 8 or 9 to train them in the right skills. So, eight years on, the first intake at that age will now be 16 or 17. Maybe it’s not so surprising that we don’t see many of them in the first team yet but they are not so far away.

    Recently Arsene said that the English Academy system is many years behind the French but he fully expects England to flourish in the next decade. It’s not rocket science but I fear that knee-jerk actions from the FA might just undermine the whole thing.

  23. I have continually banged on about the poor quality of management in the English FA, and the fact that they basically have a competing product which basically means the fox is guarding the hen-house.

    For international football to survive, they need to take a radically different approach imo.

    Sometimes new kids on the block have better ideas than those who have been in the game for years, because they are too set in their ways.

    As such, I think there are lessons that can be gleaned from cricket and rugby, both newcomers to the professional era.

    In my country, the top players are not contracted to their local unions (read clubs), they are contracted to the national body.

    That way, they are fine going off for national duty, and then fit in with their local teams when not on internationals.

    I think there is a place for the current FA structure to become an entity at the same level as the clubs, but in a unique manner.

    The current FA should become “Team England”, and a totally seperate body should be set up to administer the game as a whole.

    “Team England” should set up a system of academies.

    They would be responsible for youth development countrywide.

    Graduates of the academy could then either sign “loan” agreements with clubs in the case of the players deemed to be future England material, while others could be sold on with “buy back” clauses (for possible late developers), thus generating revenue for “Team England” and allowing them some level of control and ownership over their squad.

    “Team England” would then have direct control over the youth development while deriving revenue and benefit from their work, and they would also be pulling their weight instead of leeching off the clubs the whole time.

  24. Do Arsenal fans really care about England?

    I used to enjoy supporting England but ever since Arsenal started playing such eloquent football and having watching the laboured, limited brand of football England churn out I have slowly lost any desire to watch our national team.

    This may sound a little fickle but it is Arsenal that is in my blood and in most part watching Arsenal is such a pleasure. I am English but the England football team does not represent me. It represents Chelsea, Liverpool, man u not to mention various other teams. Perhaps this is a selfish point of view but as long as my team (Arsenal) are playing well and producing classy players then quite frankly I couldn’t care less how England perform.

    I think part of my reasoning for this attitude is based on the way the press, media and many of the England supporters disgracefully behave towards some of the England players and in particular towards the manager. (I hated the treatment of Sven) Their arrogant belief that we have the god given right to win all football matches and invariably fail to see the reality. The reality is, England do not have enough technique or ability to be as good as they think we should!!

  25. Justin Hoyte is no longer eligible to play for the England U21s.

    The only player left is Theo.

    To echo others, I don’t think the problem is a lack of talent. The problem is the price tag slapped on young English talent.

    What can Brooking do about that?

    With regards to the 90 minute rule on boys under 16, clubs could set up training facilities across the UK. If the FA hadn’t spent £138971389471 on Wembley, they could have encouraged clubs by offering subsidies/financial help to do so. It’ll be expensive and you wouldn’t see the benefits for a decade but it would be worth it in the long term to both the club and the national team.

  26. The arguments that Brooking, Mclaren, Pearce and others are making about there not being the pool of talent does not make any sense to me at all. The same amount of raw talent simply must exist, if it does not then you can only blame the genes of parents.
    I certainly dont feel that boys who are very good at football are not finding their way into the game. I am talking about boys who one day might be good enough to play for England. All of those boys ARE in football. OK so they might no longer be at Arsenal or Liverpool but to be frank, most England players are not good enough to get into the top 4’s teams. A few are though and of course they do play for the top 4 and they also did cost those clubs multi millions of pounds. any England regular is £20m+ these days.

    There are certainly enough English players in the premiership to fill a 25 man England squad, the problem is not with the top four. the problem is why aren’t these boys good enough for the top 4. Answer is grass roots and football culture.

    Take an average bunch of 14 year olds from most countries on the continent or South America and compare them with the same age English boys and you will see a huge difference in technical ability. the coaches are from day when high tempo football, long ball and the biggest strongest kids ruled the roost and thats why some of them still filter that same attitude towards our 8 year olds now. The FA need to take action on the coaching of very young and also help the best kids to get into the bigger clubs like Arsenal and Man u so they get the best facilites and coaching available.

    talking of our youngsters, Jay Simpson scored a wonderful goal for Millwall last night from an impossible angle. They still lost.

  27. G10

    The U-21’s always used to be allowed 3 over-age players so if that is still the case, Hoyte probably is eligible; whether Pearce wants to use him is another matter.

    YW

  28. YW – agreed it is the system thats the problem -the players are there.

    I dont know, maybe when they get older they are just more interested in other things? didnt have satellite tv or playstations in my day etc etc

    aj – my point exactly half the england team supplied by Arsenal – fruition of the academy.

    Also, knowing what the media is like never let the truth get in the way of a good story

  29. the other thing I was thinking was that England no longer seem to play to their strengths. yes it would great if England could play lovely possesion football, sweeping it round the pitch with one touch football but that is NEVER going to happen. not now and not in 20 years time. sometimes I see the England team TRYING (and failing) to do this and its comical. The opposition must love it when they see that since they know if England play to their strengths they are a far more dangerous side. Yes that might mean high tempo long ball stuff but frankly I dont give a shit. I watch arsenal for good football and england for results! I had given up wanting a decent game with England long ago.

    when we went 1-0 up against Germany, our seasoned professionals then tried to sit on the lead and keep the ball. BIG MISTAKE. if we had tried to keep playing high up the pitch in a typical England steam roller fashion going for the second goal then the third goal then Germany would not have been able to live with us.

  30. What a myopic bunch you all are. The England’s problem arose from their inability to develop the sport. This requires appointing people with management skills to spot the problems before they occur and then ask obvious questions: What need to be done to achieve X, Y, or Z.

    In England you have a habit of appointing ex internationals who have no management skills whatsoever and they keep spouting nonsense and drooling on symptoms. How do you think small countries achieve what they achieve? By appointing people with management skills and task them with duties to achieve things for the money invested. Here, you have ex internationals appointing their mates and spend time talking about things the way they used to be in the days when no one else played the game but England.

    Has anyone noticed that not many clubs are hiring English managers? Top 5 have foreign managers who will be replaced another foreigner. Now midtable clubs are getting on the act and no one is mentioning it until we have majority foreign managers in the EPL and subsequent clamours by Englanders. I love this country but sometimes I get really annoyed by their complacency and something else I cant understand

  31. Love your blog. As an American who is just getting into Premiership ( I confess I chose Arsenal as my squad over Manchester United who gets alot more American coverage because of their owner.) Your blog is great for someone like me who wants to know more about the league, though, so keep it up.

  32. Gazzap:

    Completely agree.

  33. Yogi, just as I suspected, Hoyte is no longer eligible for the U21

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_under-21_football_team

    Theo is eligible to represent the U21’s until the 2011 Euro Championships!

    It’s easy to forget how young he is!

  34. jj gooner

    i know it’s hard for us arsenal fans to watch england becuase we are spoilt with sexy football, for chelsea fans it’s no different(apart from winning things), but what are you saying , becuse england play bad football you dont give a f***. the thing is when it comes to england it aint about enjoying it , it’s becuase it’s our country!!

    i agree with you about us english fans , we are an absolute disgrace! sven WAS a success , we do slag off players to much, but this is just a minority im sure , and you cant let these yobs change the fact that your english!!

  35. Goonerbeall

    Your theory kind of gets blown out of the water re appointments when you consider that Germany have been very successful with appointing inexperienced managers to their national team, the Dutch and Italians also. Noticeably, they have the infrastructure and have had so for years. We are playing catch up because of a complacent attitude since time in memoriam. It is only since the 1970’s that we have accepted that we lag behind. Even then, the success of Clubs sides gave the press something to beat the drum about and conveniently ignore the ineptitude of the national side.

    YW

  36. All the people who like to accuse Wenger of hating English players are being either stupid or intentionally disingenuous. Yes, a good number of English players have failed to make the grade at Arsenal (some have gone on do to well at other clubs; most haven’t), but who has taken the time to count the French (or Spanish or African) players who have come to Arsenal and also failed to make the grade? If no one has done this (and I don’t believe anyone has) then how can anyone say he’s showing a bias against the English? I bet, to pick the first name that comes to mind, that if Owusu-Abeiyie (or Aliadiere) had been English everyone would has said they’re good enough for Arsenal, but because they’re not no one thinks it strange that Wenger let them go.

  37. Hi fellow readers,

    I have managed to read through the majority of the toss that comes out of the English papers today following the comments from Sir Trevor concerning youth development. I also caught the comments from PV4 and Gullit concerning the same subject am left in a quandary as to what any club is to do in the development of players. I mean here AW has stated that Arsenal’s policy is to develop young players and make stars, not buy them. I believe that this will yield benefits for England as well as the other countries represented in the Arsenal youth ranks, but this concentration of development is indeed not shared by all clubs.

    The “Arsenal/Ajax Way”
    There is no question at least in my mind that Arsenal and Ajax share very similar policies concerning the future of the clubs, buy early and make stars! This indeed has recently been reiterated by Wenger himself, the clamour for spending big to win may in some cases work (Chelsea/Man Utd) but not always. All of us want to see that our club does well and that we are challenging for honours, a sentiment I am sure shared with those Leeds fans of a few years ago, but at what price. The Arsenal/Ajax way is however not par for the course, rather a large exception to the rule in the realms of most “top” clubs in Europe. There is no question that Arsenal have lived recent success on the field and least we forget that success was created in the union of Arsene Wenger and the Arsenal board. The board have created an environment where the Arsene way (10 years) became the norm and a deliciously different viewing delight to the English game. Arsenal, competed at the start with astute buys and a brand of football not seen since the likes of “total football”. In the years that followed with the lost of veterans such Adams, Winterburn, Bergkamp and Wrighty, we have still strived to play a game of flowing football and making of new stars (youth development included and you can checked the England youth squads to see how Arsenal are contributing).

    The “Buy for Success way”
    I have thought about this topic much in the past few years given the introduction to Mr Russia to the EPL. I assume many people will point to the fact that Chelsea were far from a successful team prior to his introduction and since they have certainly become the shadow over the capital. I guess going back further we should look at what investment did for Blackburn with the partnership of SAS (Shearer & Sutton) and the championship that brought, albeit a one off. The flip side is Leeds! There will be a point in the future for Chelsea where they’ll be required to stand on their own feet as merely another asset in the Mr Russia portfolio. The point is that big investment and the instant need for returns comes at the cost of English youth. I personally see two areas where such investment is a detriment to the England national side. The first that buying big means buying established talent, “proven” seems a popular word used today or “potential” for younger foreign players that end up gracing the shores. As far as the latter is concerned when “potential” is evaluated and it is £6-7 million cheaper in Europe/World than in England what would you do as a business person? The second area I previously alluded to was that with the expectations placed on managers today for instant success there is seldom longevity in the role of manager. Indeed, look at the debacle at our neighbours Spurs, where to be completely honest Mr Jol has done a very good job. This type of merry go round causes upheaval in the entire club not just the managers position, with new management comes new ideas and changes again. In many cases staffers are quickly booted out after their bosses are gone and thus the cycle continues.

    Of course, this is merely my view… not shared by all I am sure but perhaps something to thing about?

    TG

  38. I think in Arsenal’s case the day we need to think about wengers replacement, we must only consider managers that will be faithful to what wenger has already built up behind the scenes. the youth system needs to continue and the young players need to be given their chance in the first team when they are ready. its no good bringing in another mourinho who will only buy proven stars. I would sincerely hope that wenger will still have a hand in the club after he has left the managers job. hopefully that may still be many years away.

    Arsenal are in a slightly better position than Ajax because we exist in a stronger and wealthier league. so we can develop and keep players. we can afford their wages and if Arsenal are competing for title then players wont want to leave. Even if Ajax are top of the league they are still a feeder club for the european giants since the dutch league is not a place for top players to hang around.

  39. Hi Gaz,

    I agree but success is relative, to an Ajax fan winning the league would feel just as good as if Arsenal had picked it up for you and I :) Arsenal are definitely in a better position from a European cup point of view.

    I would hazzard a guess that both clubs however have a very good business model.

    TG

  40. YW

    It’s true that Arsene has no obligation to look for English talent. Of course if you work and earn money in someone’s country and have been very successful, then its always nice to give something back to the country that accepted you as their own. Arsene has even been honoured for his good work by the Queen (don’t know which type though). I’m personally of the view that Arsene should spend some money to buy English talent and develop them to greatness, it wouldn’t be money wasted even if they become unsuccessful as Francis and others. We could’ve bought Curtis Davies or Richards however expensive to help support our CB or even go for Young of Villa to help with our LM problem. Sometimes its not all money spent on adverts by companies that are beneficial financially but it helps the corporate cause. Really, getting two players in the England team will be very helpful instead of having so many foreign national team players in the team. We should, as a team work towards that, its not too late to do something for mother England. Sometimes as an Arsenal fan I don’t feel happy that all our starters are foreigners, we have to do something about it. We should be seen to be helping the national cause beyond our own as we belong to the whole.

  41. The EPL is to football as Wimbledon is to tennis.

    It’s for the best players in the world.

    The fact that it physically takes place in England is secondary. If you made rules to restrict who can play, it’s hardly going to be as attractive as a sporting event, and nor will it magically bring about a generation of brilliant British players.

    It will succeed in bringing about a mediocre league though.

    I wonder if the Spanish sit around have similar discussions about why their national team never wins anything.

  42. You could say we have already spent pretty big on Theo & also I believe on young Bartlet from Bolton.

    I think we put a lot into the English lads in the academies & produce more than our fair share of English players in the PL & Championship.

    Everyone tells us that we are now a worldwide entity so we need the players that suit us best, irrespective of where they come from.

    What you are suggesting, Howard, does amount to a quota system.

    I don’t think we are under any obligation at all to buy English.

    The England scene just infuriates me. I gave up on England mainly because of the supporters showing us up worldwide & the piss poor football we have played for decades. I wish it wasn’t like that because I am as patriotic as the next man.

    Ethan-

    Very dubious memory you have there, re AW contract. You put a very good spin on it though.

  43. Howard,

    There is a part of me that understands where you are coming from but the reality is would you really go out and spend £5k more on your car because it is British than from another car maker? I would suspect that you like all of us is looking for the best available deal on the market, whilst we look at all the available information our decision is also tempered by the cost. The UK market for home talent is ridiculous to say the least. To then see people make statements by seemingly pulling at emotional heart strings defies logic. I personal have worked in the insurance industry for many years and the number of times people say “well according to the policy they are not entitled to this or that… but in the interests of this case can we not appeal to your judgement”. The fact is making decisions based on emotive reasoning will always sink the ship.

    I for one have to say that Davies is far from a proven anything in footballing terms and paying an over inflated price simply because he is English would be irrational.

  44. I read a piece in BBC Sports by Micah Richards today and he repeated that he’s always supported Arsenal as a child and that he was drawn to Arsenal ‘cos of Wrighty. This is a guy on top of his who wants to play for us. We can spend money to get him and he’s a young English who loves the club and wish to play for us. Spending money on him won’t be a waste at all even if at 18-20m. He will play many years for us and we’ll be able to recoup.

  45. iagree howard, i mean how much did the mancs spend on ferdi, they are getting there money’s worth, but it wont happen and you know it!!!!!!!!

  46. one day soon in a few years the transfer market will cool and relatively speaking Arsenal will begin to operate somewhere near the top end of the market. that might be in only 3 or 4 years time. then I could see us spending 15m+ on an English player but I dont see that happening in the near future. while you have several other top teams all vying for the best English players then Arsenal will be priced out of the deal. If we spend 15m now then our budget is blown for the season. we all know wenger can buy 4 foreign players for that amount.

  47. Gazzap

    We need some English regulars in the team it helps. I’ve already made my point on it, besides if we go for a player like Richards and he insist on playing for us however much opponents offer, his decision has to be taken into consideration. Now we think ‘cos of pricing levels we should go for foreign players but the team will lose its Englishness if this policy continue; I even believe refrees and officials are hostile to us ‘cos of dominance of foreigners in the team. People already accuse us of being foreign team. We have non-performing foreign players in our team and better English guys we’ve let go. Example, is Song better than Muamba as a defensive midfielder? I’m even told that Matthew Connlly, the reserve CB (who was captained) currently on loan is better than Senderos.

  48. YW
    your theory gets blown out of the water full stop !
    Your all missing the point it isnt about coaching or lack of !!! none of this matters …

    read below
    this article was from 2001 !
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1312044.stm

    so can you imagine you throw in a ps2-ps3 xboxes !
    or if you need more proof ..

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1936925.stm

    there simply isnt the amount of youth interested
    to find the ronaldos or nani’s kaka’s etc. in the UK

    Im sure if a 9 year old wanted to play football in the uk weather permitting HE COULD !!!
    but a ps-2 and a bag of chips with a coke is more appealing !!!

    get with the program ! USA-UK -AUSTRALIA
    lead the world in fat kids .. its a fact ..

    not many 18 stone 16 year old rooneys around is there ?

  49. Howard

    While being a Maalysian I do support your point with regards to have at least one to two English players in the first team of the Arsenal. The good public relation in England I believe more than compensates for the 5 to 6 million pounds needed for an English player of some quality. I too am a fan of Micah Richards , he is super fast, super strong, reads the game well for one so young and will improve to an unbelievable player for us. If Rio Ferdinand is worth 20 + million pounds I believe Micah Richards who can play full back just as well is worth much more than that. He is one for the present and also the future. If AW really has the money and if I were him I would not blink an eye and see what can be done to get him to play for us.

    As for the Englishness of the team I believe that the fact that there are even some Arsenal fans that want English players to be in the team speaks volume for the number of new fans that the Arsenal will win if there is a few English superstars. So it is not just pure PR but good for the bottomline as well and I believe Micah Richards together with Theo Walcott fit the bill perfectly.

    Cheers

  50. torronto

    you said

    ‘I mean here AW has stated that Arsenal’s policy is to develop young players and make stars, not buy them. I believe that this will yield benefits for England as well as the other countries represented in the Arsenal youth ranks, but this concentration of development is indeed not shared by all clubs.’
    ——————————————————-
    It sounds like the making of a feeder club to me !
    we are no different to southhampton , apart from the money we inject into young players,that part will definatly be more ,with a better grade of youngsters from europe.But its saying to me sell the youth that dont make the grade and hang on to the youth as long as we can of the ones that DO !

    Either way from now on , id like to see this policy dropped , and if any player leaves or go’s awol
    simply ‘BUY a new player’ to replace him ,a READY MADE player !!!. not adapt one.or buy a youth clone.

    In my opinion arsene is trying too hard to change postitions of his young stars , i dont think in some situations that it is working too well . like flamini
    plays left back – right back- central midfeild.
    and it changes from week to week . its making him into nothing more than a’ flexible gimp’ !
    same with eboue in midfeild..
    id rather see him as a goalie myself !
    get my point?

    we need to keep these players in the same position week after week to get something called an UNDERSTANDING ! i think the problem will be hi-lited once we face a BIG CLUB !

  51. Ethan

    What are you going on about? A feeder Club? You flip flop your position on things within weeks. Before the season started, you wanted another two or three players, that reduced to one before the window closed and now you want to dismantle the whole squad and bring in experienced pro’s.

    Have you seen Flamini play at all? At RB in the last two league matches, he has been very good. The point which you miss is, that no club has four players for every position to cover injuries and suspension hence players like Flamini are essential; that he can cover both full back positions means there is experienced cover available.

    YW

  52. Yogi

    I tend to agree as far a Flamini is concern as a utility player but I still have a problem having no out right wingers who are world class is what they do eg Ryan Giggs, Steve Coppell Steve Heighway etc. Especially on the left side one with speed, guile, and stamina who is an expert in crossing the ball. For all the talent that Rosicky has he is not left legged and will always have to cut inside to either shoot or put in crosses for now Brendtner or Adebayor or Eduardo to knock in. Neither does Hleb do the job. Clichy has the potential to do the job on the left what Eboue has the potential to do on the right. But they are not world class out and out wingers yet. It use not to be our type of play but I feel it is one weapon we lack in our arsenal and that is why most of the time opponents find us predictable. Especially now we have Eduardo we need to find him with our crosses regularly. Ironically Eduardo may be best at playing left but he can not be two places at one time. I believe he is mainly brought in to score goals and compensate partly what Henry was banging in.
    Despite my optimism and I am optimistic but the squad can be better with more balance and at this time with Lassana our latest signings we have a thousand center mid fielders who may be ADEQUATE on the wings but not great. We need more specialists and not a squad of very good players can can perform reasonably in most positions.

    Cheers


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