Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | August 31, 2007

Do The Ends Justify The Means? Oh, And The CL Draw

Heat not a furnace for your foe so hot that it do singe yourself 

- Henry VII by William Shakespeare

An interesting day at the office, I suppose you would call it. What should have been a routine Champions League draw was, for want of a better word, hijacked by David Dein’s sale of his shareholding in the Club to Alisher Usmanov and Farhad Moshiri in the guise of Red and White Holdings. You can read all about the two individuals in question in any of the broadsheets that you so desire; The Times, Independent, Telegraph and Guardian all have their views on the man – read them and other sources before making your mind up about him, his past, his ethics and his morals, rather simply taking on board the sweeping generalisations or knee-jerk reactions of others.

So what of Mr Dein’s actions? Leaving aside the dubious timing of their announcement – they knew that they would get maximum publicity with the CL draw taking place – what does it mean for Arsenal? At the moment, more destabilisation surrounding Dein, more speculation about the future of the Club and the Manager. Whilst Dein may say that he has urged AW to sign a new contract, it has not happened and this share transaction could have waited to abate the media circus in this area. Having said that, the timing is such that the announcement leaves little or no room for Arsenal to be held hostage over transfer fees in the current window, assuming of course that Arsene was not telling ‘porky pies’ over his intentions and that there is a signing still left to be finalised. As far as Wenger is concerned though, I find it inconceivable that Dein & Co have not informed him, privately of course, of their intentions. To them, he will be the key employee to convince. It will now be assumed that this is the reason for the delays in signing, something that we may never know. However, Dein’s stated aims of making the Club the best in the World are convergent with Wenger; the methodology of achieving them appears to be at odds with the reluctance to spend huge sums of money of players. Perhaps that is what Usmanov has brought into? Time will tell.

The one thing that is certain about this is that Dein is absolutely desperate to be a kingpin in football again, specifically at Arsenal. That he has a passion for the Club cannot be denied, whether he is in acting in the best interests of the Club is a matter of personal opinion. That he was a large part of a successful past should not be forgotten nor should it be ignored that he will put his own best interests first; no point in denying it, that is simply human nature. His willingness to court any number of investors can be viewed as unseemly; there have been three publicly acknowledged, who knows whether there are more privately? To some that is a signal of his passion to become involved in the Club once more, to others it is the acts of a desperate man. I cannot think of one Director of the Club who has provoked any reaction in the years I have been a supporter, let alone the extremes that he has managed to stir up.

The key question to be answered is whether or not his plans for the future are the best for the Club? It is ground that has been trodden in the past without answer; those steps will be retraced and rehashed but ultimately, the grandiose words yesterday remain exactly that until hard plans are put in place and a takeover formalised. Where this leaves Kroenke is an interesting point. The speculation was that he would make a bid, with Dein at the helm. Yesterday would seem to put that idea to bed. He might still have a desire to buy the Club; he may never have entertained such an idea seriously. Perhaps the latter is somewhat closer to the truth than was previously thought hence the changing of horses by Dein in mid-race. Whichever way this flows, his shareholding is a key to any battles ahead. If he goes into cohorts with Red and White, it is inevitable that a takeover bid will be made before the expiry of the Board’s non-sale agreement. That appears to be as solid as ever with Danny Fiszman having apparently told the AST prior to the Sparta game on Wednesday, that he had no intention of selling his shareholding. A bid would test that resolve but there is no evidence that it would bring about a change of heart.

The question of foreign ownership of Clubs will eventually take up more media column inches than ever before. The key to the answer from Arsenal’s point of view is how much a new owner would change the Club. That is something that has to happen, very few takeovers leave traditions and cultures intact. The problem with judging a Russian involvement is that the only previous example has developed a vulgar and trashy culture surrounding the Club; extreme arrogance and petulance from the playing side, masked behind a media friendly term of a ‘winning mentality’, through to the dropping of their trousers for any Corporate gain.

This is the battle that Dein has to win in the minds of supporters; he has to prove that any bid would uphold the traditions of Arsenal Football Club and treat us as if we matter. In order to do so, I believe that he will need to be quite open and as public as the Laws and Regulations surrounding any bid allow. Crucial to it is stopping uninformed speculation being printed as fact; falsehoods will be produced proclaiming that they are sourced from ‘those close to the Investors’, making it difficult to discern fact from fiction.

The Champions League draw was ultimately favourable to Arsenal. It looked for a long while as if a trip to the Ukraine was going to be the final option, instead trips to Bucharest and Prague are as far as we shall travel. Personally, I am looking forward to the trip to Seville, not purely for football reasons either. On the pitch, they have proven to be an exceptional team; you do not retain a European trophy purely through luck or the paucity of opposition. They have been making steady progress under Juande Ramos, occupying ground previously inhabited by Deportivo; a consistent performer in the Primera Division. They will fancy their chances of topping the Group. For Arsenal though, there is no reason why progression should be anything less than comfortable; Slavia and Steaua may be technically proficient but are they any better than teams we have faced and overcome before? To win all six games may be too lofty an expectation; to remain unbeaten is within capablities.

’til Tomorrow.


Responses

  1. Arsene Wenger does not spend the money available to him now. I don’t think that he would take kindly to having vaste amounts of money thrust at him and told to spend it. If that was his wish he would have joined Real Madrid years ago. Let’s stay as we are, the shareholders take nothing from the club and the revenues are increasing, when all of the flats are sold, the club we will be financially secure. David Dein wants the headlines and the power. As fans we don’t want to become the next classless Chelsea

  2. Good post Yogi. It would take a very short memory to not remember that Mr Dein has smoothly executed a dramatic U-Turn from his historical opposition to foreign investment in Arsenal FC (especially Russian Oligarch investment ala Chelski). It also begs the question, why did Mr Dein need to sell his entire stake to Usmanov in exchange of the Chairmanship of Red & White Holdings? Could he not keep his stake and form an investment company of his own to potentially take over the company? Mr Dein wanted to both liquidate his holding (generating vast personal wealth) as well as remain in the picture as far as forcing his way back to the AFC boardroom is concerned. A perfect illustration of having your cake and eating it too.

    Usmanov has acquired Mr Dein’s stake for a sound financial reason. When the next round of AFC Financials hit the market (reflecting increased gate receipt/ sponsorship/real estate/ TV deal revenue), his 75 million GBP investment will sharply escalate in value. According to Forbes, AFC is already the third most valuable football club in the world after Man U and Real Madrid. With its revenues improving by the day and the debt incurred for the stadium decreasing by the year, the day is not far when Arsenal becomes the most valuable football club in the world.

    Wenger has already admitted that money is available to buy any player he likes but he is not prepared to pay over the odds for them. There is no guarantee that if Wenger is hypothetically given a 70 million GBP transfer budget, he would go ahead and spend it. It’s just not his style. Therefore Mr Dein’s talk of foreign investment being essential to compete with Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool just doesn’t cut any ice. The foreign investors are staying invested in Arsenal for large potential capital gains and not for any love of AFC.

  3. Im sure we wil find out more in due time . i do hope this doesnt stop arsene from signing a new contract. I dont think arsene is the type of manager that wil spend 20m pounds on a player. This might be a good step or dein have sold his soul

  4. Good post as always. Lots of food for thought.

  5. About the draw .think we got a very good one . Im looking forward to the sevilla games that should be awesome . Last day of the transfer window.dont think we wil make any moves .curtis davies is moving to villa .think he could have a good job for us. I wont mind a last minute signing like denilson. Our squad looks good but just a bit thin if a robin or fabregas shoud get injured

  6. Why couldn’t he have stayed in the background until the end of the season? We were just steadying the ship again and the last thing we need is a takeover battle.

  7. Think this have unsettle everyone again,things were just coming back to normal . Its now 2 investors . Sad to say but its only a matter of time before we are taken over…

  8. Good post Yogi.
    Alex, above, makes a couple of good points. But I’d be very surprised if Dein sold his Arsenal holdings entirely for cash; I’d imagine it would be a part cash and part stake, of some sort, in R&W holding. Only cash leaves him with very little leverage, apart ofcourse from experience, reputation and contacts, if he has any intention at all of playing a serious role in Arsenal’s future.
    As for the need for a big pocket book to remain competitive, things will become clear in a season or two. While some of the current investments in football will turn out OK, I should think there’s going to be atleast a few cases of heartburn. The dust has to settle before we can determine how important financial muscle is going to be.
    For better or worse Football today is a business, and like any profit making industry capital in search of profits is inevitably going to come in resulting in new owners and new ownership structures at all levels of the game. Where all this leaves “Love” is a moot point. The best I’d hope for if and when there’s a takeover are owners who have the sense to put good footballing men in key positions and let them run the show without silly interference- a la Schevchenko selection.
    I wouldn’t be unhappy at all with a Dean Wenger partnership.
    The champions league draw gives us an early test of mettle against Seville. I avidly await those fixtures.

  9. Think the 2 investors is gona group up and make a take over bid . It was dein that got kroenke to get shares .and now he got theses guys to buy some more shares .the way i see it dein is trying to get back on the board.bringing 2 investors wil give them alot more power . Its not only kroenke that got shares.0

  10. But without any shares himself surely he’ll just be a PR mouthpiece for these businessman. If hypothetically in the future he has a disagreement with them he can quite easily be replaced as “chairman” of red and white. He is basically their employee. So i don’t buy the idea that Dein’s involvment means that everything’s rosy.

  11. I also can’t see this being part of grand plan with Kronke coming in with them too. These kind of businessmen do not all club together and play happy families. They want control as it’s the only way they can make the decisions and make money from Arsenal. Either Kronke will pack his bags as he can’t be bothered with it all, or this could get very messy indeed. Ultimately though it is the current board who will decide who, if any, takes over our club. I am thankful for that at least.

  12. Bergy I hope you are wrong. I was an equity analyst and I used to analyse companies for a living. I cannot understand how a country as financially sophisticated as England cannot see the horror of these takeovers. Forbes judged Arsenal the third most VALUABLE club in the world after Madrid and Man U, before the new gate receipts and TV deal were fully reflected! It is conceivable that we are now the most valuable club. Why is this so and what does it mean? It means we spend what we make, no more, we have healthy debt levels and we can afford the interest costs because if we could not, it would eat into the value not enhance it. Consider that the value did not reflect Highbury sales which are 90% there. Then you ask the question: what do you need an investor for? We already have a stadium and the flats will clear half of that debt. We can spend GBP30m on a player now. In 2 years, we will be able to buy Kaka!! What can a new investor do that will not happen based on the status quo? I would go further than Forbes and say that Arsenal is the most financially STABLE club in the world. That takes into account cash flows, debt levels, value of players, stadium, future cash needs, etc.

    On the positive side, hostile takeovers are very difficult to execute, and require enough willing sellers even if there is opposition from management. In this case, management, shareholders and it seems supporters as well oppose the takeover. Under these conditions it will not happen and by the time it can happen, the share price will be at GBP12000 and there will be no value left for a parasite to wish to enter. That may keep the Americans at bay but not the Eastern money bags because their money is illegitimate and does not require a return.

  13. Excellent points LB.
    The sale of the developments at Highbury will make a sound balance sheet even better, and the present investor interest in the club is nothing more than the desire to buy in before share prices rise to fully reflect the improvement in the balance sheet.
    I have long held the view that we don’t need an investor to remain competitive, but I’m now resigned to the fact there’ll be determined attempts to gain ownership of such a prime asset.
    It is the prospect of all this turning hostile that bothers me: Kroenke, R&W, and Fitzsman are the key threesome in the game now. I suspect Fitzsman will be laughing all the way to the bank, once his tax exile status is ratified.

  14. I think we should adopt the saying : More Than Just A Club.
    I know its used by Barca but what the fuck Liverpool & Celtic both lay claim to Youre Never Walk Alone.
    I do feel David Deins passion and Arsenal Footbal Club would not be a Club without us the fans.
    eie.

  15. Excellent article YW.

    Football is travelling down a very treacherous road. I do not begin to understand the finances anymore. In my simlistic way I see no reason to disbelieve what our MD & Danny Fiszman are telling us about the club being on target to compete without outside investment.

    DD has done much for Arsenal but I feel that all this is more about his own interests rather than the club’s. He has got his money for the shares, so I would have thought that he has no stake in the club . Perhaps someone better informed on these things can shead some light here?

    I hope you have analysed things correctly in your 2nd para LB.

    Arseblogger expresses my views in his own special way.

  16. Wonderfully diplomatic, unbiased and sensible posy YW. However I’m going to be petulant and say that Dein can get bent. If he ever gets his hands on Arsenal again I’m going to switch my allegiance to Everton

  17. ET,

    It was not meant to be diplomatic, just a step back from the edge as we’ve been here before with Kroenke and the issues are the same. This though is more overt in terms of a takeover; despite what they say, the only way the Club sees any cash is if they buy it. The only financial beneficiary so far is Dein; that point is being lost amongst the morass of information.

    Interesting view from the BBC Business News this morning. Chap said that to succeed Clubs have to be worldwide and essentially marketing organisations. Citing United and Chelsea as examples, he said that is what Arsenal has to strive for. It shows the level of ignorance in the media about where the club is. We may not go on the tours, etc., but we are Global and a known ‘brand’. If it takes becoming the same Corporate animals as the previous two, in order to be successful, then a lot of people will be uncomfortable with the path that we follow off the pitch.

    YW

  18. Deino’s crossed the line as far as i’m concerned. I was prepared to believe that Kroenke might be a White Knight, investing in the club without loading us with debt (interestingly he might be one now if he decides to hold on to his shares and back the board) but this is clearly all about Dein’s ego. Back the board.

  19. This stinks of David Dein’ ego, that he can do a better job running the club than the current board. The only way he can do this is for a new owner to install him as chairman and he is prepared to do whatever it takes to achieve this. Whatever the cost to the club and fans!

    Does anyone know when our next set of accounts are due? Maybe these will end the speculation about whether we need outside investment.

  20. In 1999 I visited a remote town on the west border of Thailand. In the market stalls there were an equal number of Man Utd and Arsenal shirts. I daresay some Chelsea shirts might be seen these days but to suggest that Arsenal is not a global brand is indeed fairly ignorant.

    Besides, I love the club the way it is. I hate Chelsea’s attitude and i don’t feel comfortable with Man Utd’s plc, succesful as it has been for them. While the new stadium is a wonderful thing and has brought in plenty of additional revenue, I don’t see the need to even become an all-conquering brand. I’d rather stay true to our values than simply sell out. Football becomes less appealling that way

  21. At least our Russian Chum is being open and honest about his motives:

    Daily Mail

  22. Marc

    The Accounts will probably be out end of September or early October.

    YW

  23. Thanks Yogi – I’m curious to see what they will show. More curious to see what DD response will be if they show we have made a healthy profit.

  24. does anybody have a view on how this most recent announcement by DD links up to his “previous” schmusing with Kroenke??

  25. I think Kronke feels a bit misled by Dein and has cooled a bit his enthusiasm for any takeover attempt.

  26. Berezovsky, Usmanov and Joorabchian. It doesn’t make me feel good to know these guys are sitting in their corporate boxes looking down on me at Ashburton.

  27. Lots of good posts, noteably from YW, ps7, Alex and LB.

    On one hand, the fear is that KSE and R&W Holdings will join forces and become the largest shareholder of the club.

    On the other hand, the combined wealth of Kroenke (backed by the Walton family) and Usmanov would mean that a leverage, Glazer/Gillet and Hicks style buy-out is far less likely.

    Despite his protestations, David Dein’s main concern is doing what’s best for David Dein. He wants to run the club and evidently he’ll stop at nothing to achieve his aims. The perma-tanned weasel has seduced not one but two foreign parasites with the promise of dollars and roubles.

    Arsenal are arguably the best run club in the world. As LB has pointed out, our finances are more than sound; they are very, very healthy.

    People often comment that Arsenal have limited funds and need money to ‘compete’. I, amongst others, wonder if it’s Arsene Wenger who chooses not to spend the money at his disposal. He feels personally responsible for the well-being and future of the club and perhaps he feels he would be betraying his vision of building and moulding a team from stratch if he were to buy a finished article.

    Maybe he feels he can nuture and develop the likes of Ade, Rosi, Bendtner, Theo, Rosi, Hleb, Senderos, Djourou et al into £20m+ players.

    How much are RvP and Fab4 worth now? A combined total of £35m? Why spend £35m on an emerging lethal striker and prodigious creative midfielder when you can buy them for just £3.5m a few years earlier?

    Last season, it took Rosi ’til the middle of Sept and Hleb ’til the end of Sept to register goals. It took Fab ’til April to score a league goal.

    The goals from the midfield are vital and I think Wenger’s really impressed that on the three aforementioned players.

    When Hleb’s getting on the score sheet and firing off fizzing left foot drives, you know something’s changed!

    Walcott’s been winning plaudits left, right and centre for his performances against Romania U21’s and Sparta Prague.

    Bendtner is an improvement on Baptista.

    We’re improving.

    Our first five games of last season

    P5 W2 D2 L1 F8 A4

    Our first five games of this season

    P5 W4 D1 L0 F9 A2.

    Things will get very, very interesting when our accounts are published.

  28. I don’t think Dein is acting for any take-over. He is not that stupid. He knows that more than 75% of the fans are against. I think he is only frustrated with the current board who are acting like they were looking for an opportunity to sack him and it’s happened with the krankegate.
    In my opinion, if the current board are really acting in the Arsenal interest, I think they should do some thing to bring peace in the house by finding a kind of compromise and bring Dean back without losing face. Dean remains an Arsenal supporter with the same right as the current board. They must forgive him his mistake; next time he will learn his lesson. I don’t think the current board is helping Arsene Wenger to feel alright to sign his current deal on table. He is a human being; he won’t tel openly anyone why he is not signing; but we should all see that it’s not that easy to sign while the board is trading nife with the man behind the current Arsenal success.

  29. lc,

    Have you started drinking early today?

    Dein tried to pull the rug out from under the feet of the current board and whore the club out to a soulless money man; all behind everyone’s back.

    He’s a dishonest schemer. When you have friends like Dein, you don’t need enemies.

    “They must forgive him his mistake; next time he will learn his lesson. ”

    Right you are.

  30. lc

    Sorry but there is no other reason for DD to be involved with these investors. He is not going to get a place on the Board or have any influence at the Club unless there is a takeover. Why wait until now to dispose of his s/holding if he did not have the best interests at heart? Why not sell to the Board or someone who comes with their approval? That way he could say that he is looking to stabilise the Club, not drag people whose self-admitted sole interest in making money because the business is ‘undervalued’?

    Your argument re the Board and Wenger can quite easily be turned on its head. If Dein had not gone behind their backs and got into bed with SK or later on with this R&W mob, there would be no instability or talk of takeovers which may actually be the stumbling block. As you say, AW won’t tell anyone outright so it is all guesswork. Sorry but DD may have the best interests of AFC as a primary motive but above that are the best interests of DD and the two are not necessarily mutually inclusive.

    YW

  31. Well, G10, if you can’t argue without calling other people drunk, you don’t have to react to my post.
    But if you think that AW will just go and sign the current deal without being reasured that DD will be around, I thing you are dreaming. AW is a man of a total integrity. No doubt he loves Arsenal; but if the current board are taking it for granted, I think they could put Arsenal in a mess very soon.
    DD with the krankegate, he know he’s got no chance to deal with any business that is looking to take Arsenal over.
    I think the current board is jalous of DD’s
    popularity. They sacked him for the above reason, because they know that AW is against any foreigner’ take-over, so they should have discussed the matter with him before making that decision.
    Only two people in my opinion are behind Arsenal current success, and they are Dein and Arsene Wenger. Without them, I am sure we will be watching Geoges Grahm boring Arsenal, which won’t attract any football fan anyway.
    That’s why I believe bringing all concerned around the same table and bring peace in the house will make the club even bigger.

  32. It’s now clear that Dein is a selfishman and only think about coming back to power fair or foul not caring about Arsenal. Look at the timing of all this. At a time when the league has just started and we seem to be doing okay and then this destabilisation. Does he really love the club? He can’t be successful ‘cos the current board will never sell, Fizsman has said it again on a day before the CL draw and the Board hates him, it won’t happen. It’s a buyer and a seller, and if the seller won’t sell, you can’t buy, simple. I’m sure by now the BOARD HAS STARTED TAKING DEFENSIVE MEASURES TO WARD OFF THE VULTURES LIKE DEIN, KROENKE AND THEIR COHORTS TO KEEP ARSENAL WHAT IT IS FOR THE FORSEABLE FUTURE.

    Arsenal don’t need any billionaire, Emirates is generating more revenue than any stadium in the world now. At the end of September when the results are out, everybody will see that we’re in stronger position than MANU and POOL bar Chelsea which is a mismanaged club ‘cos its not running on its own income but somebody else. After September, with revenue flowing in, the Board will be strengthened more not to sell. Dein is a complete sell-out, he’s done well for Arsenal now he’s shown his true colours. Greed and inordinate ambition will ultimately destroy him like the late car owner Delorean. They’ll fail in their hostile takeover, all of them, Kroenke, Dein, the russians and Ecclestone. The Board has done an excellent job having the vision to build the stadium and brand the team to be successful both on and off the field. They’ve always provided money for Arsene to spend but he doesn’t; Arsene has confirmed this so nobody can blame the Board for not spending to bring in players; its Arsene who don’t spend and yet some ‘illiterate’ fans still attack the Board for not spending, which is A BIG LIE. Dein will eventually fall on his own sword for creating all these destabilisation for some months now. The Arsenal don’t need this, and the Arsenal deserves better.

  33. LC, your solution of bringing all concerned parties around the same table is noble and well received (though you would agree it’s very idealistic and simplistic).

    While DD and Wenger are friends, it doesn’t mean they have to agree on all issues. When Wenger said he was against a foreign takeover did he mean to indirectly caution DD not to blindly side with Kroenke? Though Wenger admits that it is tough to work without Dein at AFC, LC the point is, life moves on. Wenger has gone on doing his business calmly and professionaly backed by Ken Friar of the board. With or without DD, its business as usual at AFC. No one is indispensable.

    And what does DD do? Presumably asks Kroenke to buy his shares at a massive premium but when he doesn’t do so, gets another foreign investor to buy his shares at a hefty premium of 8200 pounds/ share (way above the market price of 7100 pounds). It’s all about the ‘worth’ of the shares to different people. Kroenke thought that at 8200 GBP, AFC shares are too expensive. Usmanov thinks that AFC at 8200 pounds/ share is still ‘undervalued’.

    Mr Dein has just maximised his personal utility (as economists would say) by selling to the highest bidder. The origin or motives of the bidder are not a consideration in such a case.

  34. Just to respond about arsenal not being a global brand, it is HUGE in my city, Calcutta, India, easily as much as ManU and definitely greater than Chelsea. Probably as an effect of having arsene as the manager there is also a sense of dignity around Arsenal, and a sense of purpose and worth that we don’t just splurge millions but take the time and effort to make our own stars. We have players who are gentlemen – Tomas’ muted celebrations against Sparta being a point in case.
    The general feeling here is that Arsenal will lose part o f what makes them Arsenal. We do not NEED Usmanov’s millions, since we appear to be competing fine without them. Dein’s comments about needing more money for transfer markets is bosh; Arsene wouldn’t spend it. I don’t understand why Dein is doing this, but I hope that you – the fans in England who are on location – make it known how very opposed you are to this move.

  35. I find it quite crass that DD thinks an offer of virtually unlimited transfer funds will convince us fans that a take-over of this kind is good for us. Its so easy for him to say that and try to pull the wool over our eyes. Of course we all want Arsene to spend £40m every season on players but I think most Arsenal fans are more sensible than that and will look beyond such promises. (personally I prefer developing our own players anyway if we can obtain quality that way).
    I would not put it past the board to be waiting for a cash offer for the club from someone like an Oligarch. The board have the clubs’ best interests at heart and dont want to see debt placed on the club like Liverpool and Man u now have. Having said that I dont think they are in any rush to sell for the foreseeable.

  36. Perhaps mere musing and as an aside to the financial debate, I cannot see a takeover as being any good for Arsene and the way he currently goes about his work at the club. We know as he has stated himself that he looks after all the football side of the business, this obviously includes transfers. I seriously do not believe that any takeover would leave him with the same level of control he enjoys now. If you are to look at the rumblings that emanate from club Chelski, you’ll hear time and time again that Moaning Minnie has had another player he did not want added to the roster. The power brokers of this world are not stupid they’ll understand that there resentment amongst the fans for any takeover and to look to appease them they’ll try and bring in a couple/few big names. My gut feeling is we would be closer to losing AW following a takeover than at any point up to now.

  37. lc,

    I’m sorry for asking if you were drunk.

    Clearly, with your ‘let’s all forgive and forget, hold hands and love one another’ rhetoric, you’re either stoned or popping an E.

    Easy tiger. I’m only joking ;)

    I think you fail to understand the motives of men like Kroenke and Usmanov. They want to make money. Ok, you can say to make money they have to ensure Arsenal enjoy sustained success, but to make money they have to take money out of the club. They will want to make a return on their investment.

    They won’t be working for Arsenal for the love of the club, like our current board. Our board haven’t taken a dividend in over 30 years.

    The current board are good men (and woman) who love the club. Unlike Kroenke and Usmanov, who talk about how Arsenal is undervalued and speak about investments and portfolios, the current board describe themselves as the ‘custodians’ of the club.

    They realise that they have a covenant with the fans and the local area. These are British/English/English-born people who operate with the same spirit as those 16 men who got together in Woolwich, October 1886.

    Arsenal, in hands of men like Kroenke and Usmanov, will cease to be Arsenal Football Club. The covenant will be broken. The spirit of 1886 will be gone forever. It will be an empty shell of a club. A vehicle for profit for loveless, soulless money men.

    The club I grew up supporting; gone.

    Anyway, Wenger was never going to walk away from this club, Dein or no Dein. When he commented that he had a responsibility to the parents of the young players he’s signed, I 100% knew he would be staying.

    David Dein’s not popular.

    Almost every Arsenal blog has panned him for his hypocrisy, megolomanical tendencies and for repeatedly destabilising the club.

    What’s your definition of popular?

  38. Arsenal represents best what’s left of integrity in football. It’s the reason why we do not overpay, play the BEST football (the ultimate PR tool that draws millions of fans in from all over the Earth, re: Brazil), and a clearly going to be the MOST VALUABLE club in the world within the next 5 years. All the Mr 20%s use any honest comment from AW to boost the value of their clients all day, every day. We all know how valuable AW is, the board knows, and so does Dein. If AW does not sellout & Fitzmann does not sell, then we remain the last vestige of hope in the EPL.

    My fear is that “they” might try poison Fitzmann!

    LOL)

  39. Or at least PHW

  40. Until he was removed DD was the most popular director. None of the blogs know what went on behind the scenes only PR from PHW. DD told Aw before he sold his shares and of his plans for AFC. The custodians of the club didnt take dividends, but instead they watched the value of their shares increase over 1,000%.

    We are a British owned club that occasionaly has one british player in the starting 11.

    WAIT AND SEE WHAT THE AFC SUPPORTERS TRUST SAYS, AND IF A MEETING WITH THE BOARD CAN BE ACHIEVED. STOP ALL THIS ANTI DEIN HYSTERIA, REMEMBER ALL THE GOOD HAS HAS DONE

    Investors dont have to take moeny out of the club they can mae the money on the increased value of their investment.

  41. Usmanov

    “All our projects work the old-fashioned way. We borrow money and invest it in a new company that is as a rule either in a state of bankruptcy or in serious financial trouble. After gaining control over its assets, we improve its finances so that we can make a profit off its future activity. After a certain period of time, we return the money to lenders.”

  42. Sol

    >DD told Aw before he sold his shares and of his plans for AFC

    If we know nothing about what went on behind the scenes, how can you state this? Do you have inside information or are you guessing.

    DD may well have been popular beforehand but his actions since do not sit well with someone who has the best interests of the Club at heart; jumping into bed with Kroenke, Ecclestone and now Usmanov just smacks of someone desperate to get back into Arsenal and not caring how. Goodplaya wrote a good piece this morning whilst Gunnerblog hit the nail on the head this re Note 1.

    Whilst we should wait for input from the AST to a certain extent, I doubt that much more information will come to light. Usmanov’s statements attributed as being from today, show that initial concerns may be heading in the right direction. No concrete plans are in the public domain; that is Dein’s problem to deal with. It does not however preclude us from drawing opinions based on what is in the public domain.

    YW

  43. Solgooner

    Go and bring your parents to buy the club then. DD and his ‘dracula’ friends will fail. The Board will never sell to anybody. Arsenal is in safe hands like it is. DD loves the club? See how he’s doing everything to destabilise the club. He’ll fall on his own dagger.

  44. I think that Solgooner does have a point. David Dein was a very good director for the club and oversaw many of the changes which have lead to our successes on and off the pitch over the last ten years or more. Picking up the insults flung at him from some quarters..it is possible to be selfish and a good director of the club at the same time. He has not obviously harmed the club has he? The shares bought by Kroenke were on sale anyway.

    My feeling is that two things happened to lead us to the position we are in..the value of the club (and therefore shares) rose as a result of the Ashburton Grove build, and Danny Fiszman decided that it was time to cash in his shares. (The latter is probably true as otherwise he would have made moves to acquire more shares and thus ownership of the club…he did’nt he decided to ‘tidy up’ his portfolio so he is probably about to retire with his winnings).

    DD may have found himself in a position where there was an opportunity (or felt that it was necessary) to acquire a bigger share in the club..but he needed a backer. He found one..Kroenke. But Kroenke was put off by the stone-walling of the Board members and their attitude. So he needed another..he found one..Usamov. I would be surprised if Kroenke didn’t sell his shares to Usamov at a profit.
    Soon the club will change hands and DD will be the chairman.

    Provided the club is successful I don’t see that anyone has done anything wrong here. And the way to be successful is to perform on the pitch..so as long as AW, his teams and his dreams remain intact we should be fine. DD and AW engineered a very successful team and may well do so again.

    As supporters we just have to keep supporting the manager and the players..the owners (whether inheriteess or meritees) providing they cough up when required can be almost an irrelevance.

  45. HI All

    I am new here from Singapore. YW , I have been reading many Arsenal related blogs , yours is amongst the best written Keep up the good work.

    I have been an Arsenal supporter for a good 37 years. The late great Alan Ball was my favorite player for all the passion he brings may he RIP.

    Clearly DD and Wenger disagree on how success can be achieved both on and off the pitch. I believe the Board when they say AW can get all the money he wants to buy players but he fact that he has not reflects his own philosophy and believe in how the Arsenal should be managed.

    DD looks as all the money the likes of ManU and Chelsea had spent and how they are successful( those are facts) , I believe he wants the same for The Arsenal as a fan. I believe we should not question his motive and what he believes. Whether the results will show that he is right or wrong only time will tell. I believe it is too early to proclaim that AW is right in his approach as it is obvious that since Abramovich step into Chelsea we have not won anything of significance. Then Man U decides to spend on Rooney/Carrick/Ronaldo and they succeed in dethroning Chelsea. Most of Arsene success was pre Abramovich era. So the Premiership landscape have changed since the first Russian invasion. Arsene is now trying another tack or adjusting his orginal tack by buying potential than the finished article more and more. Will he succeed ? Only the results will tell us.

    Cheers
    Malaysiangunner

  46. Frank

    Is not part of supporting the Club being happy with the direction it is going in? The playing side is the core to it all but surely the manner in which it is run plays a part in all of this?

    I know that can be somewhat naive as we (supporters) are expected to follow through thick and thin but the traditions of the Club (and that is nothing to do with the nationalities of owners or players as mentioned in a previous comment) count for something.

    Or is football as soulless as the media would have you believe?

    YW

  47. YW, It’s a good point. Frankly do we support Arsenal only because we like to see trophies every year? I hope not. It’s much deeper than that and i find this obsession with bringing in at least one trophy each year at all costs quite depressing. Of course we want success, but it’s not why we support. Or at least it shouldn’t be.

  48. Hi YW,

    Yes it is important to have an interest in the direction the club is going. But the background and business interests of the owners, whoever they are, has never made edifyng reading. Search back over our history of ownership and that of most other clubs and there are some pretty shady dealings and characters.

    I think that the soul of the club (and I do think that clubs have soul..of the music kind) is created by the fans, players and managers more than anything. Remember our conversation about ‘eras’ well each era bears the managers or players names never the owners. (I still think the Bruce Rioch era is best because he brought DB in and thats when we started to be a force to be reckoned with..I am half joking).

    As football fans we are inherently conservative and so our immediate reaction to change is..oh no thats it, its all over now, never will be the same again’ etc etc. But often change is for the good in ways we could not predict.

    We are also deeply, innately suspicious of wealth whether inherited, merited or stolen, and usually start from a negative position when talking about the better offs.

    But the songs and the victories, the memorable losses, the characters, the stories will continue ..and therein lies the soul of football.

    So cheer up

  49. Frank

    As far as we know Danny Fiszman has never wanted to own the club. He has consistently denied that he intends to sell the rest of his shares. Given, to the best of my knowledge, his impeccable behaviour as a director, I am inclined, perhaps naively to believe him.

    David Dein has done an immense amount of work for the club & has contributed greatly to its success, since becoming a director in the mid 1980s.

    However his judgment has not been without fault either about the club or his own business. He appears to have fallen out with the board over the move to AB, when he would have us packed off to Wembley. This would have been a disaster in so many ways, especially the regular fans who don’t happen to live at Wembley.

    I have no doubt that DD may think he is the best person to move Arsenal forward but given a choice of him & his backers or the current board, I’ll stick to what I know because it does not seem to me that we need to take the risk.

  50. Frank

    I don’t doubt the past ownership comments and neither is it a good indicator of the future either. And whilst having only one Club to compare ‘Russian’ ownership does not mean they are all like it (at least with SK you had two different versions of ownership so we would have fallen somewhere between the two, I suspect), Chelsea are a prime example of what I never want to witness happening at Arsenal, both on and off the pitch. To use your soul music, they represent the bland 80’s onwards, us the traditional element harking to days gone by, perhaps Stax, i.e. how things should be done.

    Absolutely right that not all change is bad but neither is it all good either. The problem with his current partner is that realistically he is going to raise the value of the Club and sell, and probably within five years as well given that we are better placed financially than a number of our near neighbours.

    And therein lies the rub; the potential is there for carousels to start turning and owners to jump on and off. At the moment, we have stability; the future is less certain but perhaps we don’t want it to arrive just now.

    YW

  51. I don’t disagree with the essence of what you say Flint. However DF started the ball rolling by offloading shares and he has only stated that he would not sell within a year. We also know that he wishes to be a Swiss resident and that period of time coincided with the period required for tax advantages to kick in. But you may be right he might not sell.

    My point really is do we really care provided the owners do not interfere with the running of the club.

    On the commonly quoted ‘bad idea’ of moving to Wembley. Do we know how that came about? It may have been ‘..oh well lets run this one up the flagpole and see who salutes it…..Wembley…oh nobody well moving on any other ideas …new stadium..well theres an idea’. We don’t know .. But we do know it was six years ago.

    On balance I thought he was a force for good, and certainly not afraid of fighting our corner.

    But I don’t really care so long as AW and the team are happy about the support they get and can translate it all into success on the pitch.

  52. i think malaysian is correct, at present i would certainly suggest a new owner and another 50m are irrelevant due to wenger’s policy of buying young cheap inexperianced players, however if that policy fails we may need a new manager and a new philosophy ie buying the torres’s of the world. for that they will need enough money to compete with the other richer clubs. i do think the game has moved on dramatically in the past three years and wenger has not moved with it, (either because he couldn’t or wouldn’t). like it or not we haven’t won anything significant for those past three years. (hopefully that will change this year although i doubt it).

    the issue is how the club is aquired if with lots of debt then no way, if an abramovich style then why not. our current largest share holders are currently an american, a russian an englishman living in switzerland who is never coming back and some broad who inherited her shares from her dead husband. someone consolidating it and giving the chairmanship to the right person would not be the end of the world. i assume that whoever owns arsenal would want to maintain our huge standing in the game.

  53. YW,

    I like Bobby Blue Bland but you don’t hear much of him these days.

    The manager, the fans and particularly the fans make the music. On that note..if there are any Red Section fans reading. Could you please just sing ‘North Stand’ or something and then the East, West and Clock end can join in. You guys are going too fast and singing all the parts. I know you all come from different parts of Highbury but you are ‘North’ or ‘Orange’ now. Good singing on Sunday though well done I am not knocking it.

  54. Actually the manager, the players and the fans make the music…sorry.

    I see you have found your angle Dan.

  55. Believe it or not Flint I actually agree with you on this

    I would rather stick with what you know too,

    However I fear that this will eventually end in a Takover, The Global Brand of the Premiership has attracted a lot of very rich individuals and everything including Football Clubs has a price that will be too much to turn down.

    Our Club is now just under 30% owned by Foreigners and I am sure it will exceed that in the coming weeks, so we are probably looking at 1/3 of the club. when does this percentage entitile a Shareholder to a place on the Board?

    So on the other hand if it is going to happen, would you rather a full on Foreign investment or one with someone like DD as Chairman. I would rather it didnt but if it is going to happen then I would be happier with someone like DD at the forefront.

  56. Also I might get a T-shirt Printed saying

    Arsene drops Contract Hint ‘I am close to Signing’

    How long will he be close to signing for :)

  57. we all know he is signing anyway.

  58. Frank

    Its about a buyer and seller. If the seller don’t want to sell, finito. DD has proved lately that he’s more selfish and despite his great work for the club over the years he’s no different from any businessman. If the Board refused to sell to the Americans resulting in his sacking from the Board then don’t think they’ll sell to the Russians. They’ve said it over and over that they won’t sell and I believe them; they can not be forced to sell, at a time when the club is generating more income and soon to be the richest club in the world? Just last Wednesday before the CL drawings Fizsman repeated that he’s not selling, so DD and his Russians can keep their shares and the Board can keep theirs. Why do you think now every businessman wants to buy Arsenal? It’s greed, they want to reap where they’ve not sewn, it won’t happen, so please forget it. If they attempt a takeover, it will only destabilize the club and won’t be successful. Chelsea’s success is built on losses and it’s not a model Arsenal can follow; let’s something happen to Abramovich and Chelsea will fail like a pack of cards, ‘cos their income can not meet even their operational expenditure. Arsenal is the best model and the current Board is the brain behind the model so they won’t sell to anybody. Mark my words. They’re not greedy like DD to sell after all they’ve done place Arsenal at this level without taking any dividends.

  59. To be honest what concerns me most today is that Sagna seems to (still!) be out for sunday…I would have liked him back for Pompey, especially after what was described as a minor knock….

  60. Maybe Howard maybe…but provided all is well with Manager and Players as fans we will not have too much to worry about.

  61. what i find interesting is that wenger certainly seems happier in the current club situation, rather than a chelsea like scenario and yet for DD the only way to get the fans on his side is to say that he and wenger are the key to the future which is a view clearly not shared by wenger as he is about to sign his new contract and seems as committed as ever, if not more so.

  62. Dan,

    I think you are reading too much into this. AW has said that he and DD are still close friends and so it would be strange if they don’t talk in very great detail about the future of the club. DD and AW were certainly the key to our future 10 years ago so why should they not be now? What has DD done that shold incur the wrath of the fans? Except try to have control of the future direction of the club. I can’t think of two better people to shape the future of Arsenal.

    Personally I still think that all of this came about because DF wants to sell his shares at a point in the near future. He never says he is not selling, he always says he is not selling now. There is a lot more to this than meets the eye. But AW seems comfortable and so…so am I. Now if you don’t like or trust AW I can see why you might have a problem.

  63. Wenger:

    “If I want to buy a player today, I have money available. It is my decision to go my own route. I feel we are strong enough to compete and that’s what I want to show. At the end of the season it’s either good enough or not.”

    In his own words, the manager doesn’t want to spend lots of money.

    So we’ve got the MD saying we’re minted and a manager saying he’s got the readies but he doesn’t want to blow it.

    What will the ‘we can’t compete wah wah wah’ brigade say now?

  64. i can understand the fans displeasure at DD, we have spent the last three years discussing how gross chelsea are and then suddenly here he shows up with a chelsea style solution to what he sees are future problems the club may or may not face. wengers comments today support what i said above that he does not support or want a chelsea style club of lots of cash and not self sufficiency. me, i have no problem with the current situation and with wenger as manager for the forseeable future i think a take over would not be in our best interests. contrary to what you think i have no problem with wenger at all, all i ever say is that sooner rather later we need to see some serious progress and us back in the race. if not we need he needs to face the music.

  65. Yogi . DD statement re AW was in one of the full press releases.

    Howard When I lived in the UK I was involved with first division football prior to the EPL. I am not a naive child.

    Fitzman will sell after he has non resident status.

    Frank you are right in all your points. You could see AW body language when he spoke about DD at todays press conference he was very positive.

    Does anyone honstly think they will become the richest club inn the world when Real Madrd earn 110 million a year jsut from TV rights excluding ECL and a 95,000 seat stadium nearly always sold out.

    DAN you are right about the board I would have rather have DD than that snob PHW as chairman.

    All this negative PR about Oligarchs and gangsters is a smoke screen, do Man City supporters care what their owner did in Thailand which was pretty diabolical. Postsmouth owners family involved in illegal arms deals, Roman involved in loads of shady deals on behalf of Putin. ALL THEIR FANS ARE MUCH HAPPIER THEN PREVIOUSLY.

  66. i think this has come about because he wants to be chairman and this is his route there. there are obviously selfish motivations going on. the majority of the fans and the manager seem opposed to HIS plan.

  67. Hey Guys
    We need to be positive about the team and players mental strengh.
    Most of our players are young but experienced eg fabre, clichy and all of them are hungry as we are without any trophy for last three seasons.
    We have two weak points in our team…we dont have natural wide players and our squad is thin….
    But if we can avoid a lot of injuries, like rosicky, gallas we are capable of winning at least something this season.
    We are getting goals from midfield now and we are getting some clean sheets too.
    Gilberto, gallas, toure, fabregas and persie’s performance will determine our season and we already saw unity and willingness in all the players in previous games. Fabregas, Eduardo and toure will be our stars this term is my prediction. Lets develop walcott, bentdner, young norwegian defender as our future prospects.
    Wenger is not gonna buy any player now but if we got lots of injuries and downfall in form obviously wenger have to be in market in the winter.
    I like wenger’s style of playing so i hope he will sign contract.

  68. frank

    Go back and read what Danny F has said over all these vultures coming to eat the Arsenal to death. He said he won’t sell in the forseable future and restated that he’ll be holding his shares beyond the locked-out agreement. Read today, Dail Mail, at least you can read them online and get to know the latest comments about the whole saga by Arsene. He’s totally against foreign investment. Read it now before your new comments. I repeat, DD will fail like DeLorean car revolution failed. Inordinate ambition and win at all cost will not lead anybody anywhere but eventual destruction. DD should keep his profit and go to sleep and stop destabilising the club, the summer saga is already enough for us.

  69. “I have no intention of selling my shares in Arsenal for the foreseeable future.

    In April we [the board] entered into an agreement not to dispose of our interests for at least one year with the intention of retaining our interests thereafter.

    Over the last few months there has been much ill-informed speculation about my shareholding in Arsenal. I publicly stated my position in April and I would like to reiterate where my position is again.

    Being part of the Arsenal family is something that is not only in my mind but also in my heart.

    I, together with the rest of the board, take great pride in the fact that the Emirates Stadium is our home. There are exciting times ahead and we are energised by what the future holds.”

    That is a pretty definite statement of intent.

    I guess no one on this blog knows Danny Fiszman ? He is clearly a very wealthy man, who gives every appearance of caring more for Arsenal than making £££s out of them.

    Is there any reason to doubt his statement, other than cynical speculation?

    If I was a City fan I would be shxxxg myself. With the money they are spending, financed by an alleged very dodgy character, they run a huge risk of going out of business. I would rather have a club in League 1 than no club at all.

    There is no doubt in my mind that a PL club will implode, over this activity, some time down the road & it could be a big one.

    Only 1 club at a time can buy success. How long do the other 19 have without it if they are not self supporting?

  70. Howard

    Everything has a price including football clubs.

    They are hardly going to come out and say ‘great someones interested lets sell up’, they obviously dont want to sell but I am sure they know eventually it will happen and when it does then they want the over inflated price.

    If it is not DD then it will be someone else, rememeber this summer there has been interest from Kranky, Bernie, Rusky an the Emirates, unfortunately like it or not it will happen

    You are right about timing though it does stink.

  71. Patthegooner

    Kranky, DD, Ecclestone and the rest of the vultures will come ‘cos they see Arsenal as a goldmine, but whether they will succedd is another. I believe in this Board as a group and what they’ve done as a unit with DD and Wenger but I support Arsene’s position on foreign investments. I believe every real supporter who has read Arsene’s views on the best way to run a club as published in the Daily Mail today will oppose this vultures. Dan F is the key and he’s said repeatedly that he won’t sell so forget it, it won’t happen. You can speculate but the opposition of the Board not to sell is very firm. I’m sure PHW will be taking defensive postures now to resist the vultures who’re encircling the club.

  72. Howard

    I agree with what you are saying but we are too tempting a proposition and we will get swallowed up by fair means or foul

  73. I don’t understand the English gov’t or the English FA. They talk all the time about English values and English traditions to the press yet they have no trouble at all in handing over England’s national patrimony to a bunch of gangsters, criminals, human rights abusers and other billionnaires who don’t give a damn about English football traditions. We have a good board who’ve put back their dividends into the club for years instead of their personal pockets. They’ve put together a sound business plan to build the stadium and pay back the debt. Wenger has the money for players, he just doesn’t want to use it.

    I find it disgusting that a man who supposedly loves Arsenal so much would associate the club with a bunch of lowlifes. This is all about Dein’s dream of being the real power behind Arsenal.

    The Guardian and the Times have published profiles on this Usmanov character and it makes for very disturbing reading. This is beyond disgusting, there are no words strong enuf. Kroenke was bad enuf with his links to the filthy Wal-Mart company but this is worse.

    Just when things are going well on the pitch, when the team is finally beginning to really improve, and this happens. I despair at gooners who think that this will somehow solve all our problems, that suddenly we have all this cash to splash and that Wenger will start spending.

    I’m just ranting. I just can’t bear to see Arsenal taken over by this dirty crowd.

  74. Marcus, I totally agree with you. It’s disgraceful to read ‘real’ gooners supporting Dein’s diabolical strategy to takeover the club. Are they Spurs in this disguise? I think so.

  75. Oh dear oh dear oh dear…

    DF has already sold some of his shares…and I would be very surprised if he still owns his shares in 2 years time. But if he still has them then that is OK.

    My point was that it does’nt really matter as long as AW and the players are OK with it all.

  76. Frank

    To whom and how many are the relevant questions?

    Cheers

    YW

  77. I’ve never felt moved to contribute to anything before but this just stinks!

    Dein has sold his soul – even an unbiased look at his “business partners” will tell you that. These are just scum.

    I was hoping that Arsenal of all clubs could hold out against being turned into a circus like chelski. My son and I are proud to be members of a club that has values and these will disappear if we let this sh*t in – if we can do anything about it. I believe the board when they say Arsenal has a sound financial base, which is what it will lose if taken over, the fans exploited and the image turned into tacky caricature of its former self.

    I really, really hope this doesn’t happen. Thanx for letting me vent!

  78. Frank

    This takeover is easy to resist. The only way I see now is to turn the company private and therefore make the majority of the shares unavailable at the trading floor. The Board can do this by bringing in AST shares to its own. The Board currently holds 45% and AST 12%, so together that’s a majority holding of 57%. They can then privatise the 57% shares and take out it out from public trading, that shares availalable for trading will be 43% which will be very difficult for anybody with control to takeover the control of the club. That’s what the Glaziers’ have done to protect their shares in MANU. It’s possible the Board may have something up their sleeve to protect themselves and Arsenal from these Dein-backed Russian vultures.

  79. We just landed Diarra!! His competitive tenacity is such a plus. We just got more rugged…..Wooo

  80. Club Statement – Arsenal Sign Lassana Diarra

  81. Just what we needed another midfielder.

  82. Actually we do or did you not see the Balckburn game. Basically, no Gilberto = very little cover for the defense.
    But what does this say about the long term futures of Flamini and Song. At 5 foot 7.5 inches I really cannot see him dominating in the air either.

  83. Now that we have Diarra we don’t need Song. Diarra can play both defence and midfield and he gives us teeth in the midfield. He’ll be the presence we need in the midfield when we get to the north. Song had his chances and couldn’t take it so he needs to move on now. Quick.

  84. Im gobsmacked Chelsea allowed Diarra to come to us. It just shows that things at Chelski are changing as they would not normally be worried about losing the odd few million but would prefer to keep a player on the bench rather than come to a rival. He would have come to us in Jan or the end of the season anyway, it obviously goes to show that the big spending is well and truly over without the books being balanced. They also allowed another right back to leave( Johnson to Pompey). The Russian is obviously worried about his divorce settlement, Ray Parlour need not have worried!

  85. I think you have it YW. The key to this is not whether shareholders will sell..because most will in the end as the club is worth so much now compared to 15 years ago….but who they sell to. I think that DF will sell and it will be interesting to see who he sells to.

    Do the fans have any say in this? Good question.

  86. i heard danny f. is waiting 1 year to sell his shares so he doesnt have to pay extra tax on his profit!!…….sounds like he is putting the club first then doesnt it….at the end of the day they are all greedy money makers who know they have to invest to make money!! cant trust any of them if you ask me!!

  87. As i stated in my new archive

    http://ethangoonerworld.wordpress.com/2007/09/01/transfer-window-slams-shut-diarra-and-portsmouth/

    No one should be worrying about the DD affair,
    it wont rear its head this season , so put it on the back burner and worry about the football, red n white have got some shares , krankie has some .. im sure soon another 3rd party will own another 10 % or so ..
    It really wont happen whilst this ‘no shares sold’ embargo is in progress ,and we really didnt get a copy of it in the mail , so we dont know when it ends DATE – WISE,its contractual ,so im sure no one will break it if they signed an offical waver.. but i would say this season is a NO – GO as far as anyone selling shares ,and taken over are conserned.Business wise it would be a stupid move also . Why sell a potential gold mine when
    your only past your 1st year of trading at the emirates .
    I would say this will carry on a long while .
    Can you see phw making himself redundant?
    at any price??

  88. Apologies for no post today but the b/band connection went t*ts up last night and I’ve only just got it back; will be back later (hopefully) with a Pompey preview and more

  89. Ethan

    One point re the ‘non-sale’ agreement; it is legally binding however, there are doubts as to whether or not it applies if a takeover bid is received. For once, we might be in agreement that nothing will happen this season – why risk the costs of legal battle on top of takeover costs if you are R&W or Kroenke.

    YW

  90. YW
    And more importantly , if new owners wanted to make a mark , its too late ,transfer window closed.
    Im sure this sort of take over would accompany some top names along with it …
    To show that ‘progress’ that DD is on about ..

    Also without 30+% they cannot even mount a challenge for a take over , so both parties would need to spend another 75 million and another 15 % or so …
    Not sure how many minor share holders there are (% wise)but im sure getting 15 % at the moment would be near impossible too . i’d say alot of fans would side with UK owned , so even getting them to sell might prove hard…

  91. Also how could you price the potential of arsenal fc
    with the emirates stadium ? what price would you put on selling it outright? you have had 1 year of the new surroundings ,like i said its an UN-TAPPED money source … Pretty hard to price .. also pretty hard to price phw being out of the job.. A job he’s got pretty attached too id say ..

    no early resolutions on that one ..
    DD just did it as a PR stunt , to say he still loves arsenal , and to tapp up wenger signing on ..
    but thats all i can really see that happened .
    Its still the same 14 % just made into a business funded by some russian git .. leaving DD with a rather large christmas budget this year.

  92. he also could have sold it too the russian to free up his money to buy another 14 % with his new bankrole. he better have a share holders list :)

  93. Ethan

    >Im sure this sort of take over would accompany some top names along with it

    Not unless the manager wants them; he has money as he admitted and did not use it this transfer window. What makes you so sure that this will not be the case with new owners.

    The thing is that Dein may well have big plans but if AW does not identify a signing then either those plans go AWOL or AW goes. How long do you think DD & Co will last if the latter happens?

    The grandiose words of DD mean nothing until he is in a position of power; promises are empty until he is in a position to deliver.

    The Emirates is an exceptionally easy thing to price in terms of revenue – you know the average attendance, a rough average of programme and beverage sales. Relatively simple. The difficult bit is merchandising but even then there is historical evidence to go on.

    I don’t think PHW & Co are bothered by being unemployed or permanently retired. More important to the Board is that the Club is in ’safe’ hands. Whether DD & Co are those is debatable. If the future’s Orange, one sincerely hopes that they are better at their jobs than the cack-handed ingrates who attempt to run a Telecoms company.

    YW

  94. you see your wrong there you cannot put a price on the emirates as arsenal is the only top 4 club with state of the art facilities . Who else offers potential investors a BRAND NEW STADIUM and top 4 team all in one ???? thats why are being head hunted !

    sure buy liverpoo and a crappy stadium . they will still aways be 3 years behind arsenal in construction time . time is money… it makes our club the latest model club to purchase . And if you think after 1 or 2 years the season tickets wont go up your all dreaming . like i said they need time to mine the gold. Its business .. yes current revenue its easy costing it -BUT future revenue ..
    how long is a peice of string??

  95. anyway enough on that subject, its always involves too much guess work when talking about board related issues ..

    Only good thing ive seen that might come from it is a commitment from arsene sooner rather than later !

    you know its a bug-bear of mine !

  96. yw
    Not unless the manager wants them; he has money as he admitted and did not use it this transfer window. What makes you so sure that this will not be the case with new owners.
    ——————————————————-
    Who wouldnt want messi or kaka ?
    sure arsene had money , probably 13+ million
    but that wont buy the above names …
    TOO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE

    its like an average family man trying to buy the latest astin martin .IT WONT HAPPEN.

    arsene is on a budget . and the squad is still on the thin side .. take into account injuries to our young players plus the ANC , and we WILL be short on the feild once into this season.. we are shorter in numbers by 5 players on last season !

    Anyone with a bit of foresight can see that we are down in numbers . and what that can potentially mean !

  97. yw

    just saw a good site on arsenal reserves
    ,want to know about anyone .. its all on this site
    good work mental-acid

    http://arsenalreserves.wordpress.com/about/

  98. Ethan

    Dream on if you think Dein & co will enable us to buy Kaka or Messi! It is exactly that sort of thinking that they wish to encourage. But take a reality check. It won’t.

    YW

  99. DF will save 45 million by being non uk resident when he sells his shares.

    Howard for one I agree wiith you lets hope we have seen the last of Song

    FYI AST doesnt own any shares the small shareholders that are members represent 2% hedge funds have 4% Kroenke and Red White own 29% and 20% are in the hands of many small investors,the board has 45%.. You cannot privatise the club with a simple majority


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