Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | August 21, 2007

Final Blackburn Thoughts, Bergkamp And A Little More

The observations about Blackburn’s style of play may not be far off the mark; it’s physical, it’s not pretty to watch. To read the reaction to Sunday’s game, you would think that they had taken to the pitch with machetes, guns and other weapons of their choice. The truth is though it was frustration at our performance. Their style of play suits them. It is not pretty, it is not popular and is punished when outside of the rules. It does not bring them trophies nor does it bring full houses to Ewood Park every home game as a lot of other Premiership teams play to. It is however something we have to live with and find a way to overcome. We have done so regularly in the past; the reputation Arsenal currently have is that the players do not ‘like it up ‘em‘ so against a technically inferior team, as they admit, that is a style of play that we have to strive to overcome.

The failing on Sunday though was that having shown them we were up for the physical aspect, we did not take charge of the game technically. Perhaps it was due to injuries but that cannot be the sole cause. Gallas’ early and untimely departure from the pitch would not have helped, disrupting the team momentarily but Senderos came into the fray, performed his role and played well. However, it is that next step from physical to technical that was missing. The platform was there with an early, scrappy goal scored; we just did not build on it, particularly in the second half where possession was conceded to Rovers too readily. That is the role that Gilberto has fulfilled and has not been covered in his absence, Flamini a willing worker but unable to impose himself on the game in a similar manner. That Gilberto is missing due to FIFA’s inability to schedule an International calendar correctly – why sanction an International Tournament in a Close season directly after a World Cup and preceding another? – makes it all the more the galling and accentuates an acute loss to his Club. That is where Arsene’s focus has to be because maybe a dozen Clubs have noted the outcome.

Media friendly words such as ‘violent’ give writers their headlines and direct the story of the match as Arsene wants. It backfires though because it draws attention dynamically to the oppositions methodology and highlights the fact that it worked in getting them a point from a match they would in analysis beforehand have thoroughly welcomed.

Dennis Bergkamp has been nominated for inclusion in the National Football Museum’s Hall Of Fame. There are apparently six others on the shortlist of a Viewer Vote from Football Focus. The site only mentions their clubs which are Liverpool, Tottenham, Manchester United, West Ham, Sunderland, Huddersfield Town and Everton but those clubs, at the time of writing, had chosen not to include the news on their sites so you are none the wiser. Short of any England World Cup Winners being there and riding the wave of Nationalistic Pride, it is hard to see how anyone can fail to vote for Bergkamp. Certainly in the top three of the most skilful players to appear on these shores, he was technically on another planet to almost everyone who has appeared in the Premiership. He was no Angel on the pitch but that aspect aside, he is a player who should be held up as an example to those coming through the ranks. Do you ever recall seeing an ‘expose’ on lewd behaviour? Did he sell his soul to a rag mag for his family to be hawked around like meat? No; he did not seek the limelight away from the pitch, showing how vacuous todays Generation of footballers really are. That he should be put into a Viewer Vote is beyond me – surely his contribution is meritous in its own right for his own inclusion, especially when you look at some of the names of those who have already been inducted.

There is some surprise that Arsene has announced that he is not averse to signing new players but that there are no immediate candidates out there. On the transfer front, surely we did not expect him to say that new faces were imminent? He rarely comments before the deal is done and little, if anything, should be read into his apparent ambivalence. Keeping these actions quiet is his style and benefits the Club, in that hype does not push the prices higher. It is also his way of countering the clamour that builds every Summer towards the closure of the transfer window, deflating expectations of the support over new faces coming in. I would be surprised if anyone did join, more likely that any changes occur in January. It is not what you might want to read but it is the likelihood. The only thing that may change his mind is injury, if one of those suffering now is worse than believed. There has been comment about the wisdom of letting Djourou go with Gallas out. As his is a relatively short term absence, there appears to be sufficient cover. There is no guarantee that Djourou would have been fit in any case, he missed Birmingham’s defeat at the weekend having failed a fitness test.

’til Tomorrow.


Responses

  1. Bayren munich is after modric aswell . Are we gonna loose out yet again? Transfers have gone up so get with arsene . Ur not gona buy petrol#fuel at the same price for yeas ,so wake up

  2. Bergy, have you seen Modric play? Have you watched him in a full game or training to rate his suitability for Arsenal’s needs? If so what does he offer over and above what we currently have?

  3. Before you get your hopes up, how do we know Arsenal are after Modric? This sprang up after the Eduardo signing and seems to me to be wishful thinking on the part of an Agent or the musings of a hack, along the lines, “Hmmm, who else have they got that is any good and no-one will have seen in any depth?”.

    If there was as has been suggested previously in comments here, a Right Of First Refusal on the player, it would have been exercised by now to allow the paperwork to be processed at the Home Office. I’m even more sceptical about Modric signing than I am about Anelka.

    YW

  4. Luca Modric looks class but i’d question the wisdom of paying 10m + for another ACM (and a cup tied one at that). Heard a rumour Manu are after Huntelaar now. That would really suck…

  5. I would be happy if teams like blackburn WERE forced to play within the rules.

    Unfortunately, they are not.

    It is clear that teams like bolt-on and blackburn play in an overly and illegal, physical manner against Arsenal that they do not employ, and indeed would not get away with when playing against other clubs.

    That said, I have watched savage in many games over many seasons from before his Birmingham days, and against plenty of other clubs, and what I can say is that I have yet to see a game featuring him that I have not been mystified as to how he stayed on the pitch.

    What needs to be high-lighted are the statistical facts from last season, where the bias and frankly blatant cheating by the referees and administrators of the game stand in stark, undeniable clarity.

    Arsenal had the most fouls committed against them.

    Arsenal committed the fewest number of fouls.

    Arsenal had the worst ratio of cards to fouls in the league.

    There is no glib explanation for that other than the referees are allowing teams like blackburn, bolt-on and their ilk a free run at our players, while hitting us hard if we even look like exacting a bit of equality.

    It’s cheating, and it’s blatant.

    However, it’s not going to stop. The authorities are either too stupid or just too dishonest to do anything about it.

    The price the English game is paying for this is the total lack of quality available to the national team. It’s a putrid ethos, and it gets them nowhere on the international stage.

    It would have been great if we had come away from blackburn with all 3 points. It would have illustrated that this approach no longer works. The true cost of Jens’ error was that hughes and his thugs think that their tactics worked, not the 2 points dropped.

    The only other way to sort it out is to expose this until the authorities and refs are too embarressed to ignore it anymore, or otherwise we must make examples of players like savage, i.e. hurt them badly.

    Personally, I’d prefer it if the referees just played by the rules.

    Unfortunately I think the authorities are just too dishonest, with themselves and everyone else, and are also too terminally stupid to do anything about it.

    I have long said that the FA are incapable of administering the game, this is one of the many examples of why this is so.

  6. Well said, Mike

  7. Mike

    Do you seriously believe that we are targetted by Referees? This is a complete myth – if it were true then we would have seen more Red Cards, the latest example is RvP on Sunday.

    We do have the ratios that you say. However, the reason for that is that a lot of our fouls are retaliatory because of hardships endured beforehand. The reason others get away with it is that we only play them twice a season and rarely do the same players carry out the punishment.

    Arsenal have perpetuated the thought process about the physical aspect of matches by continually referring to it. If AW did not mention it, it would cease to be an issue. It happens because the media pick up on it and he & the players have fed the subject in the past. Other clubs then believe we can be bullied out of our stride when the truth is that is has a very limited success rate. Surely a better response to the press would be, “It was a hard game but we dealt with that and then imposed ourselves on the game”?

    YW

  8. Sorry YW – I’m with Mike on this one. I don’t think we are deliberately targetted by the referees, but somehow the less skill you have the more license you seem to get and therefore our team will suffer more.

    Even Fergie has said it – someone will get seriously hurt if this illegal behaviour is not stopped. We’ve already seen one of our promising players development held back by that sickening tackle by Dan Smith and nothing has changed. It makes me angry that such behaviour is allowed in a so called sporting contest.

  9. Wenger is a football purist and says what he thinks because he doesn’t agree with that style of play in a sport which is supposed to be an entertainment. He would say the same if we had won, drawn or lost. I like that about him and so what if other teams or fans pick up on it. I will defend him to the end to say what he wants and not be cowed by the luddite majority in football and in the press. If they all come trying to kick us off the park now all i can say is bring it on.. We will prevail..

  10. Passenal

    But all of these comments come out after a defeat or, in Ferguson’s case, to deflect criticism from the misuse of Ronaldo’s head.

    This phenomenom has really taken off in the last two seasons, dare I say it from Vieira’s departure. Prior to that, we had physical games but not accompanied by the constant complaint of how we were kicked off the park.

    The reason? We did not lose as many as we have done.

    The notion that we are systematically targetted by Referees just Beggars Belief. Are you seriously saying that we are the victims of Insitutional Corruption (because that is what it is)?

    Sorry, I don’t buy into that. Teams are physical against us but ‘cute’ enough to realise that if it is used rotationally, then unless the fouls happen in quick succession it is highly unlikely that the perpetrators will get booked. The boot is on the other foot though for the recipient; get fouled, get angry; lash out; booked for retaliation and then you are walking on a tightrope.

    The point is that if that is the style of play you are up against, you deal with it. Chelsea and United are more successful against these sorts of teams because of that mentality. It’s not Englishness or anything of the sort, its about winning. We used to impose ourselves in that manner, we haven’t. We are getting back to that level but let’s not hide behind weak excuses of the whole system being against us.

    The fundamental problem we have is that Arsenal have shown us how the game should be played. We want that, we’re good at it. But to be Great, we have to impose ourselves more.

    YW

  11. I thought that Arsenal dealt very well with the physical side of Blackburn’s game on Sunday, and were not intimidated. If Jens had not lost concentration we would have won the game and deservedly so. Blackburn had a purple patch for the first half of the second half but 1-0 would have been a fair result. Robin Van Persie’s tackle was no worse than a yellow card offence and came after he was on the wrong of many bad tackles from behind. The referee did not deal with those tackles which both encouraged more tackles and in the end a reaction from him.

    ‘Physical’ sides don’t just become that when they are playing us..that is the way they have chosen to play for the season. AW needs to point it out and maybe referees will be more aware. The attitude of the press and media in all this is exemplified in their publishing the thoughts of that that great observer of the game and strategist, David Dunn, in response to AW.

    But all in all I am pleased to see that we can dish out ourselves when needs must. RvP, a skilful player, is doing a great job of hassling defences, just like DB used to do. He is coming on a treat.

  12. YW, you misread my response, I clearly said I do not think we are targetted. We are learning to live with it on the pitch but we don’t have to like it.

  13. I’m with Yogi on this one. The players dealt pretty well with the physical game on Sunday, so should Wenger. By saying what he did after game he distracted from the fact that we did cope quite well with B’burn’s approach. Instead we’re back to being labled “whiners”.

  14. I think the way blackburn and bolton play when facing us is a testimony that they can’t match up for technical skills and speed. I dont think they like to play like that against others regularly, otherwise they wld very quickly run out of players due to suspensions! Seriously, they don’t play like that against others cos others don’t give them problems like we do.
    But we must be less tactically naive esp when we are ahead against teams like that. We must piss them off by spoiling their momentum and we must break up their domination like they had in the second half. This will make them commit more fouls and lose their way.
    No need to cry over how physical or violent they are. That’s just their own business. And to do so gives them credence and even more guts next time. Its just like I don’t give a damn what colour car my neighbour has or what he eats for dinner.
    It shouldn’t bother us how they play, but we must make sure we constantly bother them enough to make them think how to handle us. Once a team goes into battle preoccupied 100% with how the other side plays, and not how they themself should play, then the battle is half won.
    No shame getting one point there, except I am still pissed off by Jens’ lack of concentration. He should better apologise to his team mates because the bruises they got meant very little in the end due to his f*up…

  15. Hi Bob,

    Why do you give a monkeys what the press and media say about AW. A large number of them cannot stand him anyway…I don’t think he should chose his words to suit them.

    He is a clever guy and I would not be surprised if he chose his words carefully to get right up Sparky’s nose. Succeeded didn’t he?

  16. It is nice finally to find a site that is populated by intelligent fans! The vitriol that has emanated from the mouths of Arsenal fans in the wake of Wenger’s comments has been totally out of proportion to the game itself. There were a lot of committed tackles out there, but the only one really bad tackle was RvP’s tackle on Nelsen. I’m a Blackburn fan, so perhaps I am biased, but I don’t really think so. The idea that the refs are against you is clearly not true. Several independent observers have suggested that RvP should have been sent off (perhaps his hatchet job was in response to constantly being tackled, but I’m pretty sure that it won’t only be Blackburn that use this tactic). It was also very unclear what offence prevented a Blackburn penalty and Fabregas’ dismissal for handling on the line. It’s strange that it is always Wenger who complains about violent opponents, and I get the impression that it is not only Blackburn fans who are getting fed up with this. It does of course take the focus away from what was in all honesty a relatively poor Arsenal performance, and perhaps that was really the point. Arsene should be aware that the use of similar psychological tactics by Mourinho has not made him into the most popular figure, nor Chelsea into a popular team. I get the feeling that Arsene’s star is beginning to wane.

  17. I tend to agree with Yogi here,

    At our best, even under the guidance of a footballing guru like Wenger, our side has had plenty of willingness for a little “violence”

    Ljungberg not long ago spoke about winning a physical battle before imposing the footballing brilliance. As a whinge, they were over physical is a moot point. If we have not handled that well enough and I agree with Yogi again here that we are improving in this area, then we must put our hands up, say the oppostion at times went beyond the rules but we will not shirk that kind of a challenge and other than the result we quite enjoyed it.

    At this moment in time, we are in danger of saying to all, yes we are improving in this area, but by all means come and have a battle with us. We are attracting that kind of gameplan.

    The real way for us to put this down is by quickly matching any attempt to physically intimidate us and then just as quickly out passing. out moving and out scoring opponents.

    And of course, trying not to, unless completely neccesary….moan about it after.

  18. Mike & Jimmy are right here YW.

    You are joining the Luddite majority. It is 1 thing accepting physical play, there is nothing wrong with that, but quite another to consider the added downright targeting of players for quite cynical assault to be ok.

    What went on was a catalogue of cheating. Hleb on 1 occasion was wrestled to the ground, on another was clattered by 2 Blackburn players, stayed on his feet yet was accused of diving. Savage went down holding his face when Flamini arsed him in the back. Savage was just himself little rakes down the the heal etc & that dive for a penalty. They spent the whole match trying to get a sending off.

    You can condone that if you want YW but Arsene was 100% right in his comments. Very mild in fact.

    Hard but fair this certainly wasn’t.

    Having said all that I would say that the ref, Alan Wiley, had a pretty good game considering the intimidation he was receiving from both their players & those ‘drinkers of blood’ that are the Blackburn supporters.

    If I were a Blackburn fan I suppose I would try to justify or ignore their behaviour but in the end they have drawn a home game that they could have won if they concentrated on playing football, which they are quite capable of.

    Blackburn I thought benefited from the extra 2 weeks or so of competitive football they have had. They did not tire to the point that Sparta did to enable us to play our football.

  19. Flint

    I don’t condone it at all; far from it, if I had to pay to watch that regularly, I would react the same way as the Blackburn public have and that is with my feet.

    What I don’t agree with is feeding the myth that we are easy to ‘beat up’ and turnover. AW was over the top, trying to use psychology to gain sympathy from the officials and everyone else. Except it does not work. In the same way we are not targetted by officialdom, we are not recipients of benefits either.

    The best way to quell this type of play is to prove it does not work; stand up to it, match it and then impose your own style on it and win the matches. That’s the point. If you don’t win, the whole things sounds like Sour Grapes and gives more credence to their style of play.

    If he had turned around and said it was Physical but we were more than a match for them then that accentuates the positives for us and sends out a message that we can’t be cowed into submission. Instead, deliberately using the word ‘violent’ makes it seem that we are being weak and complaining, giving credibility to the belief of that type of play beating us.

    YW

  20. Despite the causalties I feel we were able to handle Blackburn’s attempt to bully our players. I remember seeing Robbie(Lilly)Savage being interviewed on SkySports and he said they outplayed us??? This further confirms that he cannot differentiate between football and rugby!!

    Despite the doubts expressed about the current squad(and i may be too early in saying this), I quite like the post-henry squad, though still think a few more players to give us a bit more depth, should be brought into the squad both new and from the youth squad(eg Gibbs, Randall etc)

  21. Just read this, is seems to prove that the FA realise that Blackburn are over physical.

    “After being accused of rough house tactics by Arsenal, Blackburn have been fined £100,000 for their disciplinary record last season.
    Despite assurances from manager Mark Hughes that his side were just committed to each other and for the cause and were not a dirty team, Rovers managed to rack up seven red cards last season and a massive 111 yellows.”

  22. If Arsenal want to reduce the number of yellow/red cards for retaliation, they must control the red mist and bide their time. If they lunge in with a tackle within 30 seconds of an incident it will be a yellow card-wait ten minutes and it may not even merit a talking to. Arsenal use your brains don’t fall into the trap, you are playing into the hands of these teams-you know what is coming devise a plan and stick to it. As they say don’t get mad get even.

  23. Well said , Steve and ps7.

  24. AW was no doubt answering a question.

    Psychology doesn’t come into it. He saw it as I saw it & said so. It is better he says nothing rather than ignore what happened.

    Have you seen the whole game YW, particularly the 1st half? It was way beyond commitment. It was the provocation then bitching at the ref that was more irritating than the actual snide fouling.

    Arsenal stood up to it very well & I don’t think it is a great problem. We were no saints either but it was a matter of responding.

    The sad thing is Blackburn have a very decent footballing team,when they want to play. In fact they caused us far more problems in the 2nd half when it was more, although not totally, about proper commitment & football.

    I welcome Mdaws contribution here. As I said before we will all see it from our teams point of view. That is how it should be.

    I do hope however that he is as sickened by Savage’s dive for a penalty as we were by Le Bob’s identical effort against Portsmouth, a few years back.

    I think we pay for that still by not getting a lot of genuine penalties.

    You are probably right about refs not targetting Arsenal but we do get a disproportionate number of booking per foul committed in comparison to other teams.

    This is probably because a lot of fouls are not booked early but then later in the game you get a spate of ‘tit for tat’ bookings. It is uncany the number of times I have seen a bad foul not booked, early on, & thought there will a lot of bookings for a lot less than that. It always seems to happen that way.

  25. My point was that we did deal with them on the physical level, but there is no hiding the fact that they did go beyond the bounds of the rules of the game, and that Jens’ unfortunate slip allowed them to go away thinking their tactics had worked, which was the true cost of Jens’ mistake imo.

    Do I think the authorities are corrupt? Yes I do, there is absolutely no question about that whatsoever.

    Do I think they target Arsenal on purpose? That’s debatable, but at the very least subliminally they do, and the only reason that I say it is not always a conscious decision is that they are as dishonest with themselves about their motives as they are with everyone else.

    Patrick collected many red cards, as did the team at one stage, something the media morons had no qualms about high-lighting at every opportunity.

    Analysis of those reds showed that many of them were entirely unwarranted, not least of all the gesture towards van nostrilboy when Patrick couldn’t have made contact if his leg was 3m long (”intent” apparently), or where he was sent off for a slinding tackle where Hamman had to visibly stretch to stand on his leg.

    As far as the corruption goes, one just has to look at the astounding conflict of interest that the so-called authorities have.

    They have a competing product, international football, yet they are allowed to dictate and administer the local game?!?!

    Where else would a rival company be allowed to hi-jack another company’s employees, at the employer’s cost and risk, to generate income for themselves?

    It’s bizarre, but not only that, they also get to make decisions that affect the other company’s product quality, like trying to get quotas etc in, which are quite clearly aimed at reducing the quality of the rival product and to thereby make their own product more attractive.

    As AW has pointed out on a few occassions, international football is nowhere near the pinnacle of football anymore, so instead of finding ways to raise the quality of their own product, they seek to diminish the quality of their rival’s product, and what’s worse, is that they’re placed in a position to do so.

    So do I think the system is corrupt? Yes.

    As for Arsenal in particular getting targeted, last season there was a very good example when comparing how bolt-on played against us compared to how they played against manu.

    I couldn’t believe I was watching the same side.

    There was nowhere near the same thuggishness involved. Whether that was down to the ref or whether fat sam didn’t want to piss off his mate saf is a debatable point, but the games and the approach by bolt-on was like chalk and cheese.

    Maybe AW’s complaints do antagonise the refs etc., but there is no question that the bias does exist as far as I’m concerned.

    The only debate is how to deal with it.

    My choice would be that we play them off the park and show them that those tactics don’t work.

    However, we do run the risk of our valuable assets (the players), getting maimed by people like dan smith, so is that really a reasonable stance to take? Must we just accept what is thrown at us?

    If I was an employee (a player), whose employer (Arsenal), didn’t do everything necessary to protect me during the course of my work (a game), I think I might have a fairly sound case in terms of negligence against my employer if they just let it carry on.

    I notice a lot is being made of Cesc handling on the line, but the whistle had already gone before the ball hit his hand, so that’s moot point. Quite why it had gone might be a debatable point, but the fact is that it had already gone, so it isn’t a discussion point in itself.

    As far as RvP’s tackle went, yes, I do think it was bad, but it was in no way in the same league as Kitson’s, so I think the red card argument or that it was “the worst tackle in the game” is also moot imo.

    I also have an issue with only retaliation being dealt with. RvP had received a battering by then, not least of all the outright rugby tackle by bentley, which was bizarre to put it politely.

    Pedersons kick at Cesc’s head (not his back) with his studs was definitely avoidable. That was a very deliberate act, as was his barge into Jens. On both occassions the acts were way after the fact, “late” doesn’t even begin to qualify as a fitting description.

    If the refs dealt with people like savage by carding him after his 2nd or 3rd yellow card offence instead of waiting until the 8th one, then maybe there would be less instigation, and less retaliation.

    Maybe one could say that the corruption is as motivated by incompetence as it is by prejudice, but that it exists and is patently wrong is beyond doubt imo.

  26. Really enjoying your work Yogi, but totally agree with Mike on this. You’ve asked why we didn’t get our technical game going this weekend, I don’t think we were given a chance to. The game was more akin to rugby than football. It would be fair enough, if an appropriate number of yellow cards was dished out, but they’re not. What happens, is that a couple of yellows get given out, the crowd are in uproar, completely ignoring their own team’s behaviour, and the referee looks to even it up, booking our players for absolutely anything going. You say it’s our players making spiteful challenges, but I’m not seeing that, I’m just seeing yellow cards being given for nothing. It’s a formula which is repeated almost every game for us.

    The other scenario is where you get the referee who doesn’t want to book players early, we get whacked about the pitch for 20 minutes, but no bookings. Then you reach the moment when bookings become acceptable, and our players start getting booked for every challenge, forgetting the horrendous tackles that went unpunished for 20 minutes. The opening 20 minutes of the game is when we really look to get our play going and break the opposition, and this cripples us.

  27. Yogi seems to be missing the fundamental point here; Wenger wan’t criticizing physicality, he was criticizing Blackburn’s illegal and violent treatment of our players. I agree with you that we should try to quell the whining as much as possible but there are times where you must stand up and highlight what has happened to your team as the officials find it almost impossible to do this.

    If you have five c**** on a team doing little nickly attacks the whole time, (rubbing studs down another players shins, standing on their feet etc.) it is impossible for the referee to see all this yet it ruins the footballing spectacle. On top of this, Blackburn repeatedly came in late and from behind on aresnal players and THEY DID GET AWAY WITH THIS. How many times were mr. ref and mr. savage sharing a light-natured laugh after that good-old robbie clattered into yet another arsenal player after the ball was gone.

    The truth is this. We are the single most technically gifted team in the league and therefore the most problematic for ‘battler’ teams. So there tactic is to rough house and assault us more than any other team (and no, we can’t just deal with all of this because some of these tackles/tactics you can’t just ignore and get on with) and then comlain about us being a bunch of whiners afterwards. Since Wenger is then forced to complain about it vocally more than they are as there are at least three of those teams and only one of us Wenger comes across as paranoid and whiny to those watching the highlights on their MotD that night. Other teams with lower budgets and league ranking such as Reading don’t feel the need to do it, then again they are managed by a gentleman and not by a mooreland’s thug. Look out for Newcastle this year too, wit BigSammy up there.

  28. I don’t think the referee’s are corrupt, but the media are, and it’s that media pressure which makes things happen. The referee apologising this weekend was a disgrace! Where was the referee apology apologising to us when we had the ball punched off the line in the cup final with Liverpool, or when Rooney dived to end our 49-game unbeaten run? We’ve got Lawrenson and Hansen on MOTD, and Alan Green and Spooney on FiveLive, I wonder why there was a cry for action????!!!!!!! I can guarantee if that penalty had been against us, there wouldn’t have been any discussion, and certainly no referees apologising.

  29. Mike

    There’s a world of difference between officials dictating a game and how it flows compared with the tactics employed by others. The latter dictates the way the former handles the match. If they are too weak to deal with it then there is little doubt that they are not fit for the job.

    I would agree with the impact of international football. Two weeks into the season and we have an meaningless friendlies. There needs to be a re-adjustment of the balance. The FA may think this game is worthwhile; the majority of fans do not and we are constantly told that we are the lifeblood of the game. We’re not because otherwise the match would not take place. There has to be more benefit to McClaren in a two day training camp so he is able to explain his ‘new’ tactical thinking to the players which is more beneficial than a match.

    The players participate in too many matches. This will be resolved when the Lyon and Chareloi cases are heard; once the Associations have to fork out for Insurance and Compensation, friendlies become financially unviable because of the expense involved. Then FIFA will realise that most people only care about Tournament Play.

    These cases are a double edged sword for FIFA and UEFA. If they lose, friendlies die out. If they win, there is a very real prospect of the Clubs moving outside of the jurisdiction of the National Associations and forming their own inter-continental league. Once that happens, FIFA & Co are screwed. They cannot afford to have all of the world’s top players omitted from International Football as their product becomes totally devalued.

    It is not good either for football in general; less money flowing downwards from the top in its multitude of sources. Every little counts for all of the Clubs outside of the Premiership.

    Too many vested interests are running and ruining the game.

    YW

  30. I think Hboy has highlighted exactly how it plays out with regard to the ref not dishing out early yellows when it’s obvious what the opposition are up to.

    The crowds there are unbelievable. We hear the “same old Arsenal” chant when any of our players goes down, no matter how badly they are fouled, and even when someone like Gallas has to be subbed, it’s absolutely astounding.

    Then we hear nothing about that absolutely ridiculous dive by savage.

    Why are those incidents not being reviewed and high-lighted by the media?

    If an Arsenal player had dived like that, or had kicked another player like pederson did to Cesc’s head, you can bet the media would have been raising the roof, and sly sports news would have replayed the incident every 15 minutes on TV for a week.

  31. Hboy

    When Kitson was sent off after what 30 seconds or so, one of the papers asked if it was right and an ex-ref said, “Yes, spot on”. He then went along the lines of ‘It does not matter if you are the pitch 20 minutes or 20 seconds, foul play is foul play’. And that is how it should be; if the officials are too weak to implement them, then demote them for one game to bring them into line. The problem then becomes that media, fans, players and the managers complain that the refs are too card happy!

    Refereeing in this media age is very difficult and a number seem to have borderline competency. High quality Refs need to be recruited and ex-players encouraged to take up the whistle because they will spot whether something was deliberate or ‘accidental’. However the system to get to the top is too long and most are unwilling to even consider it.

    YW

  32. Yes but yogi, but you haven’t argued back against mike’s points in the last two postings. I really enjoy this blog and think it stands above all other Arsenal blogs usually but on this point I believe you have gotten it wrong and I completely agree with Mike. Your counter arguments have been succinct and well phrased but they do not change the fact that, in my opinion, on this issue you are wrong.

  33. Flint

    Going back a bit to your response; I did see the game, the first time ever I’ve used the PC to do so.

    The antics of the Blackburn in mouthing off to the Ref all of the time are symptomatic of the disrespect managers engender in the players for the Refs. You will remember as well as anyone Leeds v WBA when Norman Burtenshaw was surrounded. What of Keane & Co for United?

    Until that respect is brought into the game, nothing will change. It should be treated as Dissent but until it is eliminated, nothing will change. I was going to argue that Captains alone should speak to the Ref but with the antics of John Terry, what is the point in that?

    YW

  34. I am afraid I totally agree with Mike and HBoy, and I also think that the corruption, incompetence and bias of football press and media will wreck our game. The press are free to lie and cheat because football is not important enough. Being biased against a team, manager or player is not illegal, neither is being paid by a club to print a story.

  35. Agree with you Mike on the Savage dive, and what was MOTD’s coverage of the event, they just left a question mark as to whether it was a penalty or not. Thankfully the papers were able to roundly condemn it as a dive, but why can’t MOTD do this. It’s not right. If it was a one off, I wouldn’t care, but it’s a tactic employed week-in, week-out. I’m left screaming at the tv “Well say something then, say it wasn’t a penalty”.

    The media are perverse, they’ve got no interest in anything that actually effects football. Players pushing eachother on the pitch for example, they hate that. The CC final with Chelsea last year, you’d have thought it was world war III, nothing actually occured, 100% handbags, but the media make us out to be a disgraceful bunch of hooligans, and the game was ruined / over-shadowed by it apparently. Nope, didn’t ruin it for me, I loved playing Chelsea off the park and I’ll never forget it, the handbags I forgot in a nano-second. But if we get kicked off the park, and no football is allowed to be played, the game we’re actually paying money to watch, that’s fair game. The Ronaldo thing last week, can you believe that guy is missing three games? As much as I’m enjoying it, that’s a genuine disgrace. Why can’t he square up to someone after being pushed around, and why isn’t the twat who throws himself down being banned for 10 games and Ronaldo apologised-to by the referee? Yet MOTD’s reaction is “you can’t do that”, why not, these are men, they’re not fighting, they’re squaring up. I’d rather have players squaring up 40 times a game than have to watch Rooney’s exorcist-like swearing fits at the referee.

  36. I don’t think the press bias will wreck the game Frank, it’s been going on since as long as I can remember, and my father assures me long time before that. In a sick way, I enjoy it too, it really fires my passion for Arsenal. I’m so determined that we prove these people wrong, and make them look foolish.

    The lack of accountability though is disgraceful though, you’re right. How many apologies will we get at the end of the season if we win this thing? Will Alan Hansen be sacked if we win the title, when he is scoffing and laughing at our chances of winning it? He is a pundit after all, what use is a pundit who tells the viewers incorrect information? Liverpool are genuine title contenders apparently, but we’re to be instantly dismissed by him, despite our beating Liverpool 3 times out of four last year, and hitting them for 6 in one game, not to mention our beating the champions home and away. How does that add up? Can we have some statistics please, some facts, it’d be ever so nice, this is the BBC isn’t it, or LiverpoolTV?

  37. if a.w says there no place for aggresion in football he should have walked away from the sport after starting a fight with alan pardew. (pot calling the kettle black)

  38. You are right that the refs have to be treated a lot better.

    I slag them off like anyone else but with all the camera angles etc & media attention it is now very, very difficult.

    It is the 1 thing we can learn from both codes of rugby. There has to be a world wide culture change from both the ref & the players.

    Look at Styles on Sunday. For me he got it wrong for the penalty because he was too close & probably from his angle thought it was a foul. It was just a mistake full stop. Everyone on that pitch made one.

    With the yellow card it was quite apparent to me that he was indicating an indirect free kick before putting the card away. No incident at all yet that mouth Alan Green goes on about it forever.

    What we need is for there to be an obligatory but brief discussion between all 4 officials if any 1 of them has a crucial point to make. The referee to have the final say. The ref can then explain to both captains & only the captains. This sounds long winded but need not be.

    It should only be appropriate for penalties & sendings off but if everything is done to get the correct decision then the ref will have much more respect.

  39. AW does not say that there should be no aggression in football. You just made that up.

  40. I don’t think we are treated specifically badly by referees – but Blackburn’s gameplan on Sunday was unacceptable.

    I felt that at any moment a Blackburn player would just snap an Arsenal one and although it never happened, I thought some of the tackling was disgraceful.

    Savage is an utter fool and David Dunn is an even bigger one for saying that his side are not overly physical (not that he would).

    I am angry.

  41. Iam for YW’s sugestion that Arsenal should play hard ball when faced with such thugs as “Savage”. He is not a footballer but a savage in the actual sense of the word. One of our own should be out there ready to enforce respect for the rest of the team by kicking such thugs off the pitch permanently.

  42. Big Gunn

    I did not argue with Mike over the points over the International Football because as I replied, I agree with him about the conflicts of interest.

    I disagree with Mike re Corruption of the Authorities in this particular instance. I believe his choice of words to be incorrect. Corruption indicates a systematic targetting of Arsenal Football Club, for benefit of their own end. I cannot agree with that point on several fronts. Firstly, there is absolutely no evidence of it. There is a welter of opinion that suggests that Referees are not applying the Laws of the Game as they are written; I would not disagree with that. There are instances where they are not even applying an interpretation.

    The second reason I disagree about this being corrupt is that the Footballing Authorities have nothing whatsoever to gain by targetting Arsenal, either covertly or overtly. If they wanted to bring a big club to heel, they would be better to target the self-styled biggest club in the World, Manchester United. There is far more media attention turned on them and Chelsea at the moment. I’m sorry but to suggest we are the centre of a conspiracy theory is on the same level as suggesting that the Mafia ordered JFK’s assassination. Obviously, if there is evidence, I might be persuaded to change my mind.

    Patrick Vieira’s Red Cards? I cannot remember all of them so cannot possibly comment rationally. If someone can provide the analysis of the Cards, then post the links so we can all make up our minds.

    Mike specifically mentioned Bolton last season. They changed their tactics against us and it worked in the League. Of course they were different to those against United because they knew roughing up United probably would not work. That says it all and backs up precisely the point I made. We have to get on with it, match them physically and then impose our style in the manner United do. AW fed the impression that we can be bullied by his comments, that is undeniable.

    I go back to the point I made earlier and rephrase it. Stand in front of the Camera’s, acknowledge the physical aspects and comment how we stood up to it and highlight that Blackburn failed to get three points as they might have done in the past. That way, you point out you are not impressed by the way they play, you observe that it does not bother you and you put doubts into others minds about using the tactics in future because it may well backfire. If you are going to use psychology, use it to your positive advantage. I suspect AW used the words he did to deflect attention away from JL’s mistake. Look at the debate on that. It lasted for less than a day, even yesterday’s Press Conferences before the Internationals barely mentioned it. On that front, he was successful. The downside is that he has allowed others to continue believing we don’t like the physical aspects of the Game and are unable to cope with it. Therefore, expect teams such as Bolton to continue using that style of play. What is really needed is a season of performances where we go to these places and put four past these teams; guaranteed to end the debate.

    The rest of the points about the various fouls; again I don’t disagree. It is however up to the Referee on the day to deal with it. He obviously did in the manner he saw fit. If it was not seen by the Referee then a complaint can be made to the FA and the Disciplinary Committee deal with it. Those are the rules.

    That the punishment may not fit the crime feeds a debate about Refereeing Standards. Noticeably though, the 2006 World Cup was supposed to bring foul play to heel. It is the first instance I can recall where clamping down on fouls has not spread into domestic football. Usually you have media splurges on the number of cautions and dismissals. That did not happen this time.

    YW

  43. another excellent post. btw did anyone catch Ribery playing for Bayern… he was definitely worth the £17mil.

  44. Hboy / Mike

    I don’t include the media in my point above. They have their own Agendas and frankly their bias does not interest me.

    Frank

    I partially agree with you about the media ruining the Game but I don’t think it is the Sports aspect of it that will. The style of reporting has not changed much; there has always been speculation.

    There are however two areas that cause problems. Firstly, the Globalisation of all media in recent years has led to far more willingness to believe the stories printed in other Countries Press without questioning the sources. They all know for example, that Marca is the mouthpiece of Real Madrid yet they still present their stories as fact.

    The second aspect is the behaviour of the Players off of the Pitch. I don’t expect them to be paragons of virtue, just aware of their status as Role Models. Too much attention is given to aspects of Football that have nothing to do with events on the Pitch, e.g. WAGS. All of the weddings, etc., covered in Magazines combined with lurid tales of misbehaviour devalues the Game by dragging its reputation into the Gutter.

    Some might say we get the media coverage we deserve and it is hard to disagree with that. It is high time that Players as a whole respected the privilege that their abilities have given them.

    YW

  45. I think you are being a bit harsh on AW,YW. His point was that Blackburn were throwing their weight around and that the team dealt with it, and they did. He defended RvPs reaction, rightly in my opinion. The press and media have done the rest. Doesn’t really matter what he says ..they will put their own spin on it. It will all die down once we have the run up to the next league game, and we will stuff Blackburn at the Emirates in due course.

  46. Sorry YW, posts crossing. I agree with your comments on globalisation. Of course the web contributes to stories spinning out of control as well and we have discussed that before. Ironically I think the football media have dumbed themselves down at a time when a lot of supporters want more intelligent and creative (in terms of format not content) approaches. It is OK to provide jobs and income for old pros but not at the expense of integrity. MOTD is so poor now I won’t watch it..just watch ATVO the day after if necessary. The idea that some ignorant tosser almost randomly selects bits of a game to suit his/her own purpose and some other ignorant tosser comments on it is just decades past its sellby date. etc, etc. If I have to watch the game like that I would rather watch an utterly Arsenal biased version so rollon Arsenal TV.

  47. not sure what all the fuss is about, it was a physical game one in which we acquitted ourselves very well on the physical side and gained a respectable point. that is the way they play and the referee booked and sent off the players he thought was appropriate.

    next!!!!

  48. Agree with pretty much all you’ve said their Yogi, and I accept that maybe we just have to fight fire with fire. The Blackburn match was definetely a tricky one to call, was it over-aggression, or Arsenal being too small, a thin-line between the two I think we can summise from our opinions on here today. Either way, it didn’t get me down, because I know we have bigger, stronger guys (Gilberto, Diaby, Eboue, Adebayor) to play in these matches, but were severely handicapped by injuries at the weekend. If I have one hope for this season, it’s that Arsene learns to use different players for different styles of games. He needs to be adventurous in his team rotation. For example, with the team looking weak in the middle at the weekend, he could have thrown Kolo Toure into the middle to help win the battle, with Senderos starting at the back. That would be a great tool to use on occasions. I think Arsene has learnt something over the summer, bringing Eboue into midfield really does give us a more robust feel, and I’d like to see more of that thinking. Sometimes we do need to earn the right to out-play these teams, before we try to out-play them.

    Against City this weekend, that strength won’t be needed, and I hope all the talents are out there to shine.

  49. Frank

    I couldn’t agree more about the dumbing down bit. For years I’ve wanted an intelligent daily newspaper about Sport but football in particular. I think it could be a success. However, the problem is that it would probably end up in the same style and category as a tabloid.

    YW

  50. I am at work so I have not read all the comments and I might therefore inadvertently repeat some views already made. I couldn’t let it pass without saying anything coz it’s something I feel strongly about.

    YW just below that article about Dunn crowing in ‘the sun’ there was a piece about Blackburn being fined 100 grand for their indiscipline last year (is it 10 reds and 111 yellows) and I read in ‘the game’ yesterday they are already top of the table this season with something like 18.4 fouls per game. Additionally watching sundays match there was no doubt thuggery is part and parcel of blackburn’s strategy (Savage’s histronics supported by Mark Hughes and not a word about Nielsen’s red card.And let’s not forget Todds petulant elbow onto RVPs face 2 seasons ago) I find it incredible that some one can even try to legislate blackburn’s behaviour in given this evidence.

    I’ve read Balckburn supporters and Manager saying RVPs foul was the worst. My question is was it Arsenal (in particular RVP) that set the violent tone? NO. RVP reacted to a challenge that went unpanished. And using the superlative worst is quite subjective. What matters is the INCIDENCES (not just cautions) of unfair play! Blackburn had most by far.

    Which brings us to the question what do Arsenal do. I feel it is wrong to criticize AW for saying it as he sees it just coz the media is going to pick up on it and spin it like the Telegraph did shamelessly yesterday. After all that Balckburn are footballing thugs is public knowledge as we’ve already seen. But that is not just enough. Before they kicked us and all we did was complain. Now if they start it we give as good as we get as well. That is the way it should be. Before I get accused of double standards, the premise of my argument is Arsenal never go out with a game plan that has thuggery as it’s pillar.

    And may I just add that this idea of Arsenal being a soft touch began even when Vieira was still here, with Le Bob being the original target and then gained full steam after that OT match with the treatment of Reyes. After that Big Sum($) applied it to the whole team the the rest of premiership and now europe followed suite. As far as I am concerned it is something only those inflicted with inferiority complex (the desperate seeking easy answers to hard questions) resort to. Fulham beat us 3-1 last year not because they resorted to violence but because they completely outhought us.

    My point: Say what you will, Blackburn are the dirtiest team in the premiership.

  51. I have only read a few of the top comments so im probably repeating what has already been said.

    Yogi,

    You are spot on…. The only reason these Northern teams adopt such a physical approach is because we continue to make an issue of it which implies that we’re not happy with it. Not only that, but these physical tactics have proven to be very effective.

    If we want to challenge for the English Premiership then these are some of the strengths we need to improve upon. Its no good constantly complaining everytime we face a team that want to out muscle us. We must be stronger and better in these areas.

    3 or 4 years ago our players were not only technically excellent but were physically very imposing. AW has since built a team that lacks strength and power and unless we learn to match these teams in the way they approach the games then we will never win the league regardless how much talent we may have.

    Some of our whinging supporters really annoy me when they complain that Blackburn were too physical and the FA are cheating us…. What rubbish! In this country to be a winner, whether you like or not, you must have physical strength as well as the skills and technique.

  52. YW, Really complicated stuff and I think it would need to be addressed on a lot of fronts. Starting with TV coverage my club focused channesl would do the following in order to be supporter friendly….it would be great to watch games with minimum commentary..just who has the ball etc, commentators seem to feel it necessary to inject there own opinions on the action..they need to cut that out. They also need to stop offering snippets of pointless information. Football is a dynamic game unlike cricket where people talk to cover long periods of inactivity. I would reduce the replays of fouls, offsides etc, slowing the action down only gives the illusion of greater clarity and it does nothing for the game..the referee has made a decision so be it. Just replay goals, moves, skills. By all means use video to decide whether a goal should stand but only if the ref asks for it. All live football channels should give the option of watching the game with no commentary i.e. with crowd and ground noise only. No commentary or opinion after the game except from managers and players on the day. Not interested in outsiders opinions they are always loaded one way or another or just plain stupid. No highlights programmes just complete games…punters can fast forward if they wish with modern technology. Lots more coverage of behind the scenes at the clubs, training facilities, players out in the community, conversations with players and coaching staff, board etc. Questions and answers from supporters to player,manager, board etc. Minimum reporters, minimum pundits. Let the fans ask the questions.

  53. JJ,

    agreed so much bloody moaning, we need to just get on with it, the fans moan more than the players.

  54. Frank

    I seem to recall that ATVO is going to be a proper channel later this year? Anyone confirm that or have
    a link with more info?

    YW

  55. Yes a deal has been done with Santana

  56. I specifically flagged this issue a few weeks back on this site as one of 4 key battlegrounds for the new season (if you pardon the pun)- had we learnt enough to cope with the muck and bullets at places like Blackburn etc.

    Had we recruited the type of player necessary to beef up our collective size and physical profile? Was it just case of waiting for the boys to become men?

    As I said before – we are two players short in this aspect – a dominant Micah Richards type centre half and an enforcer midfielder (you don’t have to play them at home to Middlesborough – it’s a squad game).

    Kyle Bartley and Havard Nortveit will be two such players in 2 years.

    Also, to be fair, We were missing Diaby, Gilberto, Adebayor, Eboue – players whose pace and physique justify selection over the hlebs for such a game. Bendter will add power and physique.

    Saw a description of AW on a blog recently which was very perceptive and included the observation “Great Coach, Genius talent spotter, average tactician.” As I said before, he has seemed to ignore this problem and not made enough efforts to remedy it (it is now going in to its third season). He constantly states the mantra, I worry about my own team, not the opposition. Maybe he is being tongue in cheek but I think he is too purist in this thinking. All managers of even the best teams have to consider the opposition – he falls short of Benitez & Ferguson in this regard.

    He finished 4th – 20 something points behind the winners. It behoves him to analyse why and do something about it. He is super intelligent – he knows well why – as he said himself, “they won the league of the top 4 games, were second in points against the next tier but only 10th of the top four against the bottom tier” – why? muscled out by rough house tactics, long ball and packed midfields in the north.

    p.s He also has not fully addressed the problem of opposition teams who pack the midfield – by improving his wing options. A left winger of substance who is orthodox fast and direct is a must – he should have payed the 5m over the odds for Ribery

  57. YW, Its getting better isn’t it? ATVO and ATV may well be the answer as far as video is concerned. Must say Carlos seems to have developed new skills Solgooner.

  58. Must say though Solgooner a musical background may be nice. Maybe Santana..I have switched the sound off and listened to the sounds of Grateful Dead before now.

  59. To all of you thinking about Huntlaar Valencia and Real want him and the price has reached 14 million pounds. The days of 7 milion pound star or potentially star players is over unfortunately AW doesnt recognise that fact thats why we are looking for a winger from Abania. Inflation is here to stay. We had our chance with Babel and Ribery whos doing incredible at Bayern, that was our mistake not to buy real players. Sagna was a bargain, but so was Ribery in todays market.

  60. My worries about the weakness of the squad has affected my spelling. As well as Wenger comments that Walcott has improved so much in the last week.

  61. Spot on JJGooner while I was writing the last piece.
    As I said before, you don’t whinge about this physicality. It’s a reality – face it or piss off and don’t accept the challenge. AW is wrong to constantly harp on.

    I am also afraid that he is trying to stir up a response from his players but all he may do is get a petulant one and players will see red to add suspensions to our already long injury list. RVP for ex. on SAT. It’s not about retaliation, it’s about getting up and marking your card for 10-15 mins time – them geting ball and man

  62. Go on SG bring us down to earth with a resounding thud why don’t you?

  63. AlanG, Why would AW use the media to stir up his players ..he sees them most days for hours especially post-match.

  64. Alan G

    I think you make some very good points. Im sure in time we will learn through experience to be stronger both mentally and physically but with a copule of signings this could be rectified now.

    As much as I have been impressed with Flamini this season he still lacks that physical presence and positional play and this was evident against Blackburn. If your going to have Fabregas in their and if Gilberto is injured we need options that provide solidity. Stephen Appiah or dare I say Bouba Diop!! Probably wont start every game but a viable option away from home against the bottom tier, more physical teams.

    Also, along with everyone else I have been saying that we need a quality, quick, left sided midfielder all summer…. Still waiting though!

  65. I disagree that Wenger is an average tactician. Average tactician’s do not have the level of success he has had with the resources available to him.

    If you actually pay attention to what Wenger says, not just the media soundbites he is well aware of what needs to change this season. We’ve already seen signs of that in the way the team are standing up to the physical intimidation. Unfortunately his hands were tied by the injuries in terms of team selection. But even the so called light-weights stood up and nearly came away with 3 points if not for an horrendous goal-keeping error that cannot be legislated for. I am convinced that if he had the whole squad available we would have seen a different team out there. Adebayor has been a big miss so far this season not just for what he brings to the game but for his partnership with RVP, which frees the latter up to get on the end of the service from the midfield.

    Anyone would think we’d lost the game on Sunday the amount of angst there is around the place!

  66. Well said Passenal

  67. wenger’s hands are tied due to the lack of depth in the squad not just the injuries. to expect 15 or 16 good players to be able to play 60 games a year with no injuries is pure folly, it is not going to happen. they need at least 3 or 4 more players (djourou coming back would be one). he has left us with a very small squad and therefore every week we are going to be saying if only we had everyone available all would be great. within that small squad he also has players that he himself has said are not ready to play regularly ie bendtner and walcott, thus restricting him even further. considering what happened to chelsea last year ie running out of players and playing their best midfielder eissien in defence, you would think he would have seen the importance of a strong squad. if we start seeing gilberto playing central defence again i think we will seriously suffer.

  68. following the debates; thanks for all the thoughtful responses.

  69. I think our winger dreams may be scuppered by Gallas, he believes that he will be out till October so it will be more like 6 weeks.

    Damn that Djorou loan, I really hope his planned backup isnt Sideshow Song. I know Gilberto can play there but despite Flamini’s efforts I feel more comfortable with Gilberto there.

    I have not seen enough of Curtis Davies to make a valued assesment, what do you guys think? Micah Richards would be perfect but I fear it would break the bank.

    Now this may sound harsh and in all honesty it is probably too late. given the inability for either Hleb or Rosicky to settle or perform on the wings, do you think there is place for both of them in the Squad, they both take up the attacking midfield role which I am sure we will only use when the Strikers are injured. If as we all seem to want awinger comes in, this will relegate one or both of these guys to the bench.

  70. PattheGooner, He said that they he would not see him playing for France until October as he will not be ready for their match in early September. Groin strains are normally tops three weeks to fitness depending upon how serious they are and if there are any setbacks. Senderos will do a good job until then. Covetting other EPL teams players isn’t ever going to work is it?

  71. i wrote a couple of days ago that it isn’t a winger or striker we need but a central midfielder who puts it about i.e. a replacement for Vieira. Gilberto does a job but lacks aggression and bite. Cesc is competing with Hleb and Rosicky as playmaker. The team lacks midfield balance and is too lightweight, Gilberto needs a partner who can intimidate opponents and lets Cesc and others play. Arsene’s comments after the game achieve nothing except motivation and a game plan for similar teams like Blackburn. The moral argument in favour of pure football is admirable but misplaced, you have to deal with the team in front of you.

  72. Sorry Frank

    I must of misheard Talk Sport on the way home

    so Senderos is the plan then,

    what happens if either he or Toure gets injured then and are you happy that they will have to play every minute between now and Gallas’s return?

    How can buying other players not work, it was Wenger’s mistake that let Djourou go on loan

  73. Hi Patthegooner,

    I don’t know what the plan is..none of us do. But we do also have Justin Hoyte and Gilberto who can play CM. But how many CMs do you want in the squad and if say you want 6 how do you keep them all happy and at one with their football careers? We are no different to any other club are we?…except perhaps we are better blessed with players who can play in alternative positions than most.

  74. Sorry for CM read CB

  75. frank,

    hotye and Gilberto are not centre backs, song can play there that does not mean he should. gilberto was very average there last year and we not only have an average centre back but then completely screw up the midfield, by then having to bring in flamini. i know you love this these players can play everywhere bit, the problem is they are not very good at playing in those positions and therefore we have lots of jack of all trades and very few genuine class players anymore.

    as for the CB’s you do not need 6, 4 will do and then when desperate you need to use a hoyte or gilberto. if you can not even admit that having only 3 specialist centre backs was a mistake and that he didn’t screw up by letting djourou leave, then i think your undying love for everything wenger does is seriously clouding your judgement.

  76. 6 is over the top and I never hinted at that but 4 is a necessity, come on a lot of said what happens if, when Djorou went and we have been proved right

    Justin Hoyte is a below average CB and if we play Gilberto there, we are then lacking quality in the CM, you are just moving the problem around the squad

    We lack strength in depth and it has come about from a mistake by Wenger.

    Look at the starting 11, we have an average utility player in the backbone role of CM, we have a RB playing RM, we have an attacking Midfielder playing LW and we have a Striker that is un-proven. On the bench we have another unproven striker who he wont start and sideshow song!!!!

    Now in emergency I am happy to play people out of position (Like for the second half of a game not game after game) and I happy to see players coming through and yes they must have their chance. Do you honestly feel you can mount a succesful title challenging season playing this many either out of position or un-proven

    And I cant accept this I am nowhere near a signing comment, he has had three months to identify players and if it is a case of they dont want to come then that needs addressing and if it is a case of he cant find them the whole scouting system needs addressing.

  77. Pat,

    I don’t know what TalkSport are reporting (loathsome station), but WG’s comments were in L’Equipe and were definitely about his availability for France. They have a game against Italy on 8th September which he sure to miss and their next game is in October. He will miss Man City, Sparta Prague and Portsmouth and may be back for the unmentionables.

  78. frank,

    gilberto and hoyte are not centre backs!!! just because a player can play somewhere doesn’t mean they are any good at it, ie song. if you play gilberto, not only is very average there but you lose in the midfield as well, as we then start seeing flamini playing there again.

    you do not need 6 CB’s certainly 4, and if they are injured then find a player to fill in. If you can not admit that having only three specialist centre backs and letting djourou go was not a major mistake and an accident waiting to happen, then your undying love for everything wenger is seriously clouding your judgement.

  79. Pat, that is what the others are having to do. He was already having trouble either keeping Djourou or keeping him match fit. Too many CBs makes it unworkable. Anyway we are not relying on Gilberto or Hoyte and we can play what-ifs forever. I wish the bloody transfer window would snap shut and then we could move on.

  80. Dan, that’s why I don’t envy the managers job. You either fill the squad with players who become disaffected when they don’t play cf. Flamini who nearly left for that reason, Muamba, Laarson, Stokes, Bentley, Sidwell etc who actually left for that reason. Or you take a chance on having a smaller but more adaptable squad with a strong team spirit.

  81. i wouldn’t turn it down it’s more interesting than my job!!!! there is a happy medium and i do not think we are any where near it. i think most players appreciate being part of a strong squad and you rarely hear man utd, chelsea or liverpool players complain.

    obviously the more successful a team is the more games you play and therefore able to keep people happy.

    the problem we have as well is that not only are there less numricaly but the quality of players 15 to 20 are so average that we feel it so strongly. if we have 5 players missing which is not unreasonable you have the weak bench we have had in the past few games which is simply not strong enough for us to realistically compete for the big prizes.

    the job of the manager is to keep the squad happy, sidwell will not be playing every week or rarely when they get their players back and yet he was still happy to go there (i suppose the 50k a week would help).

  82. Thanks Passenal, you put it better than me.

    Dan, if I don’t trust AW who are you expecting me to trust? You? Ethan Gooner? The press? Which manager would you prefer me to trust instead of AW?

    I don’t see the point of this. I am happy with the way things are going with the squad and with AW. Why are you so keen to convince me otherwise?

  83. as an option, Walcott is playing LW for the Under-21’s tonight and whilst the opposition isn’t Chlesea or Man Ure qualty he is looking very lively

    To be honest I think that there are enough games in enough competitions for everyone to get a game at CB even if you do have four. As for Flamini, he is another Grimandi, he is versatile but not world class in any position but to have him on the bench covers a lot of defensive options and that is gold dust.

    out of the players Passenal mentioned, I think that only Sidwell ever had a chance of being an Arsenal 1st teamer, ultimately we have around 40-50 youth players coming through that are trying to fit into 11 slots that gernerally cover the age gap of 20-35, obviously a lot more are going to fail the grade.

    In this day and age football is no longer a 15 man squad game, you need 2 players per position and sure maybe you can fit some utility players in that and to me that means

    GK Lehmann, Almunia
    LB Clichy, Traore
    CB Toure, Senderos
    CB Gallas,
    RB Sagna, Eboue, Hoyte
    LW
    CM Fabregas, Flamini, Song
    CM Gilberto, Denilson, Diaby
    RW Walcott
    CF Van Persie, Eduardo
    CF Adebayor, Bendtner

    then we have Hleb and Rosicky that fill the AM that we generally dont play. I have put players in either their preferred position or their historical position. I accept some of those players can fill a whole but to me that should be an in-game emergency and not the norm and I include the Eboue experiment in that.

    It is all very well and good keeping everyone happy with a small squad but then you cant cope with injury and you dont have any competition as the better players become complacent as they know despite poor form they will always get a game.

  84. frank,

    fair comment. i am just like others letting my frustrations go here as obviously there is no where else to release them. i am certainly not trying to pursuade you to be a miserable moany git like me!!!

  85. that works both ways Frank, you try to convince us that everything is hunky dory

    That is what the blog is for, it is to put your viewpoint accross, if it was just to blow smoke up Arsene’s arse It would be very rose-tinted and boring, if we feel the club is potentially moving in the wrong direction we have a right to post it, that is the great thing about opinions

  86. I and so many other gooners have vented so much about the Blackburn thugs on other blogs in the past two days so I don’t want to belabor this. There’s a reason I am especially rancorous, livid and revolted by Blackburn in particular. Yes, Bolton under Allardyce, SheffU and the like use similar tactics. They can be nasty too, and I’m still upset that Morgan got so little punishment for punching RVP in the stomach.

    But my hostility toward Blackburn in particular stems from something that was alluded to on Vital Arsenal. The guy who writes on that site is the only Arsenal blogger I’ve seen so far who’s mentioned it (and of course no one in the media commented on it). His report on the match is here: http://www.arsenal.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=79485

    I highly recommend his report, there are lots of good points there. One of his observations goes like this:

    “We all expected Blackburn to get in our faces early on, and so they did, pursuing the ball with admirable tenacity. Savage and Emerton waded in with some meaty challenges, not all of which were unfair. My problem comes when time and time again Rovers players continued their momentum into stricken players, intentionally kicking them once the ball had gone and the ref’s back was turned.”

    Now I don’t claim that Blackburn are the only players in the football world that have ever done this but I do claim that they did this en masse, in continual, deliberate, vindictive, vicious, organized fashion, with obvious glee. Against Arsenal, they seem to come out with the primary aim of drawing blood. Winning is secondary. It’s why I agree entirely with Wenger when he says they have a “desire for violence.” For me, they’re the PL’s #1 thugs.

    I know others will say I’m wrong about this but I just don’t see even the likes of Bolton under Big Sam coming out on the pitch against us to the same degree with such violent intent as Blackburn.

  87. I take your point but I am not trying to convince you that everything is hunky dory..neither am i trying to insult you. As far as opinions are concerned we are not really covering new ground and I guess we can agree to differ. Perhaps we can move on.

    In your world are we allowed to use some of our reserves from time to time or do they not get a look in?

  88. AW’s comments regarding what he perceives to be lack of “value” in the transfer market are staggering..
    its the same old story .. now football players are assets, as much as stocks, bonds, etc and the transfer market is the place where these assets are traded..
    if you dont see value in the market and you believe that prices are overhyped, you might wait .. it doesnt mean that the market is not trading as we can see.. in fact, the market in the EPL is trading more than ever.. AW is now simply staying away from the market.. that is a high risk strategy .. or if he buys, he buys an underrated asset like Dudu which is a riskier strategy rather than a tried and tested asset at market price ..
    but the fact is that his moaning wont make the market prices change .. unless there is a correction, but that seems unlikely with the current flow of money into the EPL being stronger than ever
    he seems to be irritated to pay more than 10MM quid for a player .. fine, but thats where the market trades now
    I believe that everybody is entitled to some stubbornness and especially somebody as successful as AW, but his last season has not been good .. and I dont think he should be able to afford another season like last one .. the AFC franchise is too BIG for that

  89. Definately Frank

    But I believe that for the majority of the time I think your starting 11 and bench should be as strong as possible and currently it is neither for us

    Happy to move on, definately agree to disagree

    Disclaimer: any more silly comments from Wenger saying we have enough quality, are mentally strong and can challenge for the premiership and CL then the above comment is null and void

    I am mentally strong too but arse at football

  90. Oh for f@@@s sake

  91. Sorry Pat, the last comment was aimed at BB.

  92. I just have a feeling that Djourou was sent away to give Senderos a chance to get back to his best.

    Imo, Djourou is already above Senderos in the pecking order.

    As such, with WG’s latest injury, Djourou would then have had to fill in, and Senderos would not have got a chance to make good.

    What AW has done is to get Djourou valuable first team experience at a club managed by an ex-defender, while at the same time buying Senderos a chance without p!ssing either of the two youngsters off.

  93. Maybe MIke, or maybe he is maximizing Djourou as an asset at a time when trading in centre backs has never been better. Now is the time to regroup before selling all the players next time the market hits its peak. We can then consider diverifying and moving into commodities..yawn, yawn

  94. Chelsea are probably the only team with two top players for every position and even they’ve had to tighten their belt this season. Being a well-paid benchwarmer in a winning squad is attractive to some players. However, most decent players want to earn their medals and become disenchanted with lack of playing time.

    ManU did not have that luxury last season but were blessed by being relatively injury-free. However, they are suffering now for all their supposed strength in depth.

    Rafa’s rotation policy means that more squad players will get a chance to play, but it has not been totally successful as the downside is that the constant disruption stops solid partnerships and understandings developing. There are not too many players who can come in and immediately play at the top of their game. Most need a run of games to settle in.

  95. Nice one Passenal. Just going to watch the Bourne Supremacy.

  96. frank,

    what you don’t seem to get it is that,

    song, flamini, hoyte, eboue, walcott, diaby, denislon, bendtner, senderos, traore are all first team players, not reserves, they are not playing reserve games they are not included in the reserve list, they are 10 players of our 24 man squad (including 3 goalies) average age around 20, and in most cases average ability and in best cases good potential but totally unproven. i have no problem with giving youngsters a chnace, but the youngsters are the squad. the mature ones, Fab, clichy, RVP, fabregas, ade are all of approx 23 years old

    reserves are people like gibbs, merida, sunu.

    there is no age balance in the squad.

  97. Fair one earlier Frank

    I cant wait till the window shuts, my day revolves around Newsnow at the moment, even b4 I clean my teeth in the morning it is check PC to see what the Gutter Press is hinting at

    I think at the same time Yogi must be writing his post as sometimes he beats me. Work is the same, as I work in IT anyway the newsnow window is minimised just waiting for that ‘Arsenal agree fee for ??????’ headline.

    At least once it is closed its closed regardless of whether we buy or not.

    Did anyone watch the under 21’s tonight, Theo fresh from being kicked by the Northern Monkeys got another pasting from the Romanians, he also played in 3 positions LW,RW and upfront. he seemed liveliest in the LW role but that is where he started.

  98. we will just spend the next next 3 months moaning about how well all the people we should have bought have done for the teams who did buy them. if you know what i mean.

  99. Yeah and then come December, it will be who should we buy in Jan to cover the ANC

  100. it’s fun being arsenal fan!!!!

  101. [...] Final Blackburn Thoughts, Bergkamp And A Little More The observations about Blackburn’s style of play may not be far off the mark; it’s physical, it’s not […] [...]


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