Posted by: Yogi's Warrior | June 14, 2007

Are The Board Panic-Striken Or Just PR Inept?

The bushes were hacked back successfully yesterday and it’s amazing how true to the current situation at Arsenal they were. Marca and El Mundo Deportivo turned out to weeds, parasites taking over the beauty of Mother Nature; Henry was stubborn but just needs some TLC before blossoming in full again whilst Dein was left on his own in the wilderness once all the others had been taken care of.

Today was going to be about the fixtures, ‘the first cuckoo of Spring’ – the time when you realise the new season isn’t that far away. They are out at 10am (GMT) and will be on official website and just about everywhere within a nanosecond of being published. My preference would be something like Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United, Spurs the first four games of the season and then the first games in January. Why? It leaves time to recover points in the remaining thirty games but that will probably be our run in…

Keith Edelman has told the Daily Star that the Club are willing to utilise the £40m facility to buy players in order to remain competitive,

A football club should not borrow to buy players. However, if you are building a fixed asset – such as our stadium – which produces a positive return after you have paid back the debt, then this a sensible approach. The reason we have a trading facility was because we would be disadvantaged without it if we wanted to sign players. We were concerned that with our debt, clubs would not take our credit. This facility allows us to cover the fact we may have to give a letter of credit to back up second and third year paymemts to guarantee payment

The timing of these comments leaves a lot to be desired and in many respects they are unnecessary. I had assumed that the Club would be delving into this ‘kitty’ to fund the transfer fees required to purchase the players, unless of course they happen to sell someone for sufficient incoming funds to cover the outgoings. In this I was obviously wrong. What I fail to understand is the last couple of sentences. Have the Club genuinely been knocked back on transfer deals because of fears that they would ‘welch’ on those fees? If so, who, what, where, when and why do any other clubs believe that to be the case? Or is this just the Board’s doublespeak for providing a rationale for accessing these funds? Are they a prelude to a transfer splurge? I just do not see the necessity for Edelman to have said that. For a Club that do not comment very often on their commercial dealings, even the requirement of their public listing would not have required such a statement, especially not one so ‘negative’. Edelman is trying to put a positive spin on the use of the facility but all he has done is confirmed the belief that right at this moment in time, the Club is a bit hard-up, its money tied up in Assets and ongoing Projects.

Of more concern though is the timing of this announcement. In the week when the Henry debacle has hit third gear, the Board have successfully made themselves look panic-striken at the thought of losing their main striker. Any comment from the Club on transfers would have looked like a sop to Henry but this one makes it look as if their collective resolve is crumbling in the face of an unsettled player. Whilst this may not be the case, perception in football determines how news is portrayed and this is a PR Own Goal by the Club. It makes Edelman look a poor leader, lacking judgement or ‘gravitas’. Surely they could have found an organ with a higher ranking that The Daily Star to run this announcement through, even though this was probably a PR mailshot? Do they not have any ‘tame’ editors who would have run this one more ‘authoritatively’? I presume it was made with the intention of reassuring the support and markets that there was no problem with funding transfers at the Club; perhaps even a warning shot across Kroenke’s bows ahead of the supposed meeting that they are having next week. Certainly from that point of view, the timing is a little awry – put a story like this in the public domain at the start of next week if that is the case.

Unfortunately, I come back to the nagging thought that this was intended to quell any dissension from within and without about the apparent lack of transfer dealings so far. That there are another two and half months to go before the transfer window closes should mean that no-one panics over inactivity. In the world of Football, at this time of year, media is the God that is worshipped. There is a constant trickle of negative PR about the Club at the moment, the Board not showing a firm control of the situation and the PR department definitely on the back foot. As Laurel and Hardy said, “That’s another fine mess you’ve got me into“.

’til Tomorrow.


Responses

  1. In fairness to Edelman the comments attributed to him were from a meeting with the Arsenal Shareholders Trust. I presume that this was a direct response to a question from the floor, in which case we can only fully analyse the context of his comments if the exact question was published alongside it. Its not as if edelman just came out with these comments by feeding them to press or something like that.

  2. this number cruncher called edelman and the other board members are bringing this great club of ours to its knees!! i heard him say that the loan repayments don’t start to 2009 (so where is all the money going)?????????
    i don’t blame henry and wenger wanting to leave with these fools left running our club!!!
    BRING BACK DEIN BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!! he had the foresight and best interests for the club!!not these people who don’t turn up for games unless “entertaining” there corporate buddies in the diamond level!
    its gonna be RIP Arsenal soon aswe will go back to the early 80s ore Dein…
    i remember those days and don’t want to see again!
    expect a clown like tony adams as the next arsenal manager if that happens(no doubt a great player)but from another era(the game has moved on since then)
    and no experience as a manager!!
    so the current Arsenal board do us all a favour and bring back double d or ship out….you are ruining our great club!!!
    is doing things the arsenal way, the comments the number cruncher said!!
    i don’t think so…

  3. RIP ARSENAL WITH THESE FOOLS LEFT TO RUIN OUR GREAT CLUB!!!

  4. This was K.E.’s direct response to a question at Arsenal Supporters Trust. If you go to this link http://www.arsenaltrust.org/news.html you can click on the Edelman transcript MS Word document and read the entire proceedings for yourself. This was no “PR announcement”, he was talking to the trust about club affairs when a question about transfer funds and such came up. To paraphrase, he basically said that that debt was pretty much just a facility to guarantee our transfer payments in future years to other clubs if we need to. Kind of like a secured loan so that other clubs we want to buy from know that our credit is good despite the Ashburton project and associated debt. I don’t think it’s fair of you at all to call this a PR mistake. Rather, why not rail against the sh1te press in England and the fact that they twist every single word that anyone says to sell another rag.

  5. And why, by the way, are so-called “supporters” (number cruncher edelman this means you) railing against the board? who are doing the best job of running any club in the epl, keeping it in english hands, and not selling out to someone like the Glazers who will ruin the club and load even more debt onto it?

  6. If you’re going to claim Edelman told the Daily Star that then you should at least be sure it’s factual. He did not talk to the Daily Star, it’s from a meeting with the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust (17 May 2007 – Emirates Stadium). You should know by now that no one at Arsenal actually talks to the tabloids.

    Here is the question:

    From Q11 –Player Trading Facility: Why have we got a £40m player trading facility if we are in good financial position?

    KE: – The reason why we have a trading facility for players was because we were concerned that without it the Club could be disadvantaged when trying to sign players. It is important to recognise that when you buy a player from another club the transfer fee is usually paid in stages over a 3-4 year period. The club were concerned that with its debt that this would put off other clubs (i.e. the Club would not be in a position to make transfer payments over a long period) and therefore would not take the Club’s credit. This was recognised as a risk to Arsenal and could potentially restrict our ability to buy players from other clubs.

    Therefore the player trading facility allows the club to cover the fact that we may have to give a letter of credit to back up the second and third year payments which guarantees the payment. [This facility is a deferred payment mechanism, not a loan for player purchases]

    If you can’t wrap your head around that explanation then leave the business to grown ups and stop whining about things you don’t understand.

  7. I cant see any problems with his statement. It only secures that we can make bids with payment over several years and that this facility is the guarantee to the selling club.

    If they got as much as 40 million pounds to secure the second, third and fourth year of players they buy, they will for sure have at least 20 – 30 mill for the initial payment…

  8. Are The Board Panic-Striken Or Just PR Inept?

    In todays day and age, the title gives no options, it’s one and the same.

    (I’ll now read the rest of the article).

  9. because they are a bunch of liars!!!
    lie no 1 ,oncethe stadium is built we can compete with any team!!!
    wrong —lose out to bayern for ribery
    lie no 2—-about the kroenke situation saying to us they never met him——-they did
    lie no 3—-tell the truth where all the money arsenal has made and when the figures come in for 2006/7 season and the BIG drop in wages paid out(and champs league money for that year)and transfer fees recieved where all the moneys been going!!!!!
    no doubt wages will still be as high as previous years(high earners like campball cole pires lauren are replaced by low earners eboue adebayor djourou denison)
    they are ripping us off big time (and not willing to invest in the team)
    OUT OUT OUT OUT
    NOW YOU FOOLS OUT THERE BE GOOD LITTLE SHEEP AND BUY THE NEW WHITE KIT AND GET YOUR TICKETS FOR THE EMIRATES CUP OR PAy YOUR SUBSCRIPTION FEE FOR IN THE HOPE YOU MIGHT ONE DAY GET YOUR TICKET TO SEE ARSENAL PLAY ££££££££ IN
    ££££££££££ NOT ON THE TEAM
    ££££££££££ FEES TO WHO?????

  10. 8 number cruncher edelman, I can’t argue with that, although you got to factor in that the money involved with a purchase or sale these days is spanned over 2-3 years rather than a full immediate payment.

  11. Well done Wolverine for posting the question that prompted the resomnse from Edelman. As I said beforehand, you can only analyse a comment in its full cntext if you know what went before it in the conversation. It makes sense to me, and I am no way a business professional. Why it brings the vitriol from some of the peope above i just dont know.

  12. EDELMAN OUT
    EDELMAN OUT
    EDELMAN OUT
    EDELMAN OUT
    EDELMAN OUT

    NUMBER CRUNCHER OUT
    NUMBER CRUNCHER OUT
    NUMBER CRUNCHER OUT
    NUMBER CRUNCHER OUT

  13. If we need to buy players with a credit facility, then it would mean there is no available cash lying around (His words suggest any funds will come directly from this facility). I guess it is time for fans to stop blaming Arsene Wenger for not getting players. It seems clearer that unless there is really a “super” player, using the credit facility would be a great risk to the finance and future of the club. That “super” player must be worth every cent utilised.
    The directors can make all the noise about funds being available (it is available…) but one must be prudent when using it. If 30mil had been used to buy a certain “world class” striker like how Shevchenko turned out to be, well most of us would be cursing and swearing.

  14. BECAUSE THEY ARE TAKING US FOR FOOLS THAT IS WHAT MAKES ME AND OTHER ARSENAL FANS SO ANGRY KM1980 ..DID YOU BUY THE MOST EXPENSIVE SEASON TICKETS IN COUNTRY THIS YEAR?
    I BEEN FOLLOWING THE ARSENAL SINCE 1979 SO AM ENTITLED TO HAVE MY RANT!!!!!

  15. I was basing my previous comment on Edelman’s comment that it would be a “sensible approach” to borrow to buy players when “building a fixed asset”.
    His subsequent comment is a bit confusing as it make it seems the facility is just there and may not be utilised (that is normal for a trading facility), assuming the return from the stadium is enough to cover the 2nd and 3rd year.
    Nevertheless it indicates that we do not have sufficient funds (above the facility) to make a “super class” purchase.

  16. The quote has been taken completely out of context. Edelman was responding to questions from the floor at an Arsenal Supporters Trust (AST) meeting & the quote has merged statements from two answers. First, Edelman responds to the issue of Arsenal’s debt levels where he says that going into debt for financing player acquisitions is not sustainable. Going into debt for a “fixed asset” like the stadium is, because it can always be sold/re-financed etc (doesn’t lose value). The stadium will continue to generate income for the club 50 years from now. Eto’o, Torres, Ribery, Henry (insert any other name you care for here) will be long gone.

    Then on the issue of player payments, he said The 40M is not an additional sum to fund acquisitions (it is not just going to be spent on an Eto’o) but is a security for selling clubs to be sure that Arsenal can repay delayed payments (given its Emirates debt). Perhaps this has been an issue with selilng clubs with recent attempts to buy players?

    Blogger wanna be board members (and fair seasoned supporters), have a bit of faith in the model, which is aimed at long term viability & success not short term bragging rights, because the buy new players argument is one that WILL repeat every year. AST did a recent study into how MU have funded its player acquisitions and found they are not even paying back their borrowings (only the interest payments):

    “The level of borrowing at Manchester United is staggering. It cannot be sustainable for a club to have debts of £660million and to be extracting so much profit for repayments. The borrowing at Arsenal has been sensibly placed against income earning assets such as the Emirates stadium.”

  17. I want the club to sign a player, any player. I was very excited when they signed a not well known, Marinello for a high GBP100K back then. BUT, I feel our conservative Board is right, in their own ways. History has shown that mere splashing of cash is a very short term answer, that may inevitably leads to disaster. Chelsea looks to be on the verge of being past the next best plaything.
    MU reacted after loosing out on Essein, by paying over the top for two youngsters. If Arsenal bought them, we will have the same howls of protests from fans that we are not buying experience, but plyers that may or may not make it in the top league.
    I agree that being fans IT IS OUR RIGHT TO RANT, but I think a little more support for our beloved club, please.

  18. Did I buy the most expensive season tickets in the country?No I didnt

    Did I buy as many tickets as my red membership could get me on days I could take off work? Yes I did

    Did the team win any trophies this year? No they didnt

    Did the team suffer an unfortunate run of injuries at an already transitional time for the club? Yes they did

    Did we spend millions and millions on overpaid, overrated and somewhat overage players – a la Shevchenko? No we didnt

    Did we see a group of highly talented youngsters show real signs that they can mature nicely into a great team, while still getting to a cup final and qualifying for the Champions League? Yes we did

    Ok, I agree, we do need a couple of arrivals to make this team stronger. But we must put it into perspective. Its 12 months into the new stadium era, and the stadium was built to ensure our LONG TERM future as a major force in Europe. Yes we all have the right to a rant, but we should never lose sight of the fact that we are supporters of the club.

  19. Excellent answer by Wolverine and sums up perfectly the crazy and over the top reactions of people who don’t understand finance responding to tabloid rubbish which is often used as a headline making story when in fact is just a simple answer to a question.

    Arsenal always have been, and are still, in fantastic hands and we should leave the running of the club to the people who understand the finance and complexities of running a company worth £600m +

    Please stop slagging of Arsenal, we are in great shape and the papers are just trying as usual to sell stories which unfortunately over 10m people + in the UK seem to think if it is printed in a paper it must be true.

  20. Hey number cruncher, I’m not trying to shout you down or anything. Youve been following Arsenal since just before I was born!

    But you must know what it felt like in those mediocre years in the mid eighties. I cant help but think that we might have been a just little bit spoliled over the past 7-8 years or more with the most steady run of trophies since the 30’s. I really do believe that the club know what they’re doing right now and that it will turn out to have been in all or best interests long term.

  21. Why do people assume we dont have funds for players? FFS read the answer in the question IT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

    Arsenal want to be in a poistion to buy players.
    It is common to do deals where the payment is structured over 2 or 3 years (PV4 was paid over three years when sold to Juve)

    What he says is clubs may see trading with Arsenal a risk becasue they believe they have a huge debt, so Arsenal have a 40m facility which basically is backed by a bank so they can transfer a player and pay over 2 or 3 years and the money is guaranteed.

    If we were not going to be in a positiion to buy players they wouldn’t have bothered organising this facility would they?

  22. Based on my “professional” (*cough*) opinion (I’m a Banker), I don’t think there’s anything wrong with utilising a credit facility to purchase players. Just like any other successfully run business, nobody is going to fork out GBP40million from the coffers for purchases. So long as there is a proper management of the cash flow, it should not be a problem.

    Having debt is part and parcel of business, and like it or not, football clubs are run very much like businesses these days. But what makes the difference is the quality of the people running the business and that I’m afraid, is something that nobody knows at the moment. I just hope we don’t have to find out the hard way…

  23. Thanks to everyone who clarified the context in which KE made the above statements; my sense of dismay was nipped in the bud.
    Naz above makes a valid point about proper cash flow management being the key to managing debt. There is one point I’d like to add, the current context:
    It is, at this point in time, an issue of timing for the club. We’re already servicing a sizeable debt incurred to fund stadium development; We have lost a clutch of key and experienced players at about the same time; Many other clubs are engaging in a debt funded buying frenzy that has appreciably inflated transfer fees and wages.
    Given this situation, if we do borrow additionally to bring players in we’re going to have to depend on the Lord’s sweet mercy that things go exactly to plan in terms of our league and other tournament finishes. One slip up, something that can easily happen, and, trust me, it will not be pleasant.
    This is exactly why I liked Dein’s suggestion regarding Wembley. To me it would have made an excellent short term option, and we could have considered a new stadium once we had collected cash from the Highbury development and stabilised our league standings with some solid additions to the club without worrying about substantial debt servicing. Yes, there were inevitable disadvantages, but that’s true of the current situation too: Great new home no doubt but worries about the squad. Take your pick.
    That’s water under the bridge however.
    We have two options: Wenger manages to pull a couple of great bargains in the market again; or, if Henry doesn’t make a clear commitment, we sell him for the best money we can get and use the proceeds judiciously to bring players in.
    If indeed we are compelled to use the credit facility to buy players, I will be a worried man, even accounting for the increased TV money that’s going to come in. We need two-three quality (again, not necessarily “Eto’o”) signings to keep pace with the current top three and to keep space between us and the pack that trails us. Note that at both ends money is being spent. Only time will tell whether this spending was worthwhile for them, but atleast some of these teams are going to prove a stiffer challenge than last time around. The worst thing that can happen in this situation is we borrow substantially to buy, and end up lower down the table.
    We’ll see.
    PS:

  24. Ever considered Dein opposed the stadium move?

    Get your facts right. Dein was right to be kicked out. He did a lot for the club, but he isnt the life and blood of arsenal. Goodbye, move on. The board is fine.

  25. I love the comment by someone earlier about “we’ll have to see” about the board.

    This is the same board who backed AW to build Colney, take Arsenal up the ladder into the realms of a “big” club (face it, we could easily be another Aston Villa, Wolves, Birmingham, spurs etc.), and build a stunning new stadium on time, and within budget.

    “We’ll have to see”, you’re shitting me, right?

    Dein did some good things, some bad. He also made mistakes and I don’t agree that wembley would have been a good option.

    He’s moved on, unlucky, he’s not Batman FFS!

  26. One other thing.

    I have rather enjoyed the fact that this blog has been a bit of a haven for the more cerebral and less lemming-like Gooners.

    I do understand that one doesn’t want to censor or drive people away, but I do find it disappointing that there seem to be some of the bed-wetting brigade coming in here now.

    It’s not my site, and I am all for listening to several points of view, but if I want to read the drivel from dummy-spitting morons there are any number of sites where that ilk exercise their “rights” (looks more like the “right” to make yourself look stupid).

    “number cruncher edelman”, aren’t you in the wrong queue or something? Try reading what the more intelligent people posting here have written, or go and spray your ignorant spittle elsewhere, just a suggestion mind…………

  27. gee reading all that bollocks is enough to do your head in .
    but 1 thing is for sure ,having our shiney new stadium has seemed to put us out in the wilderness for the past 3 seasons.
    Also forcing us to sell off all our experienced players ,weve kept wages at an all time low and also kept our points on the leaders board come end of season AT AN ALL TIME LOW also !

    DO WE WANT A DEBTLESS CLUB OR TITLES??
    EMPTY SEATS or PACKED TO THE RAFTERS

    given that arsene plays an active part in the boards day to day runnings , its quite simple to understand why he says things like
    ‘ribery is over priced ‘, and
    ‘we wont bring in fresh players unless they add something to the team’ !?

    my question is how can we bring in fresh players into the team without paying ALOT for them !!! Who also will make a difference !!!
    as much as i think babel is a ‘MUST HAVE’ PURCHASE.. he still is about as young as fabrigas !

    also in responce to karthic , you either jump in the pool and get wet or you dont jump in the pool ..
    for instance man U , already has a team worthy of winning the EPL. but what sir alex has done is ensure he will be top 2 next season also , by spending 50 + mil..on his team when you debateably dont really need too.

    We need heavy spending and commitment to happen soon or i doubt we will even be in the top 4 next season.

    to quote yoda from starwars ..
    YOU EITHER DO or DO NOT there is NO TRY !!!

  28. Yeah and comments like this don’t help at all you simple minded git! Talk about putting a negative spin on things, for the love of Pete, don’t you see you have just become part of the problem. With your desire to put your words out to the world on this blog – Christ if you dont have anything positive to say shut the fuck up.

  29. Steve_Gooner: “Tip to you #1 (out of 100 or so that spring to mind)” – Money doesn’t grow on trees.

  30. mike , the only bed wetter , (whats that crap all about ?) is you .

    if you what to bury your head in the sand , keep our squad unchanged for the up and comming season.
    stupidly thinking that our squad is competative with man U and alikes then go read blogs from ARSENAL.com . which tell you no
    rumours or latteral thinking until a deal is signed in blood.

    Its a fact that arsenal fans are winners and for the last 2/3 seasons we are NOT competative ! and we want change !?
    and some of us are loosing faith .(not pissing in your bed). Or are you to stupid to realize that we dont want our club to fall lower down the table.. and more importantly we dont want to be EVEN COMPARED to spurs or newcastle in the same sentance, when in past seasons we have beaten the best and we WHAT THOSE DAYS BACK !!! we have played over 80 games and we can see with our own eyes .. We arnt wetting beds .. we want a captain who is loyal and who will come out and say it publicly with passion, and we need 2 or 3 TOP , TOP class players added to the team to the team to truely put us back on the map !!!

  31. i didnt realize that you HAVE TO BE POSITIVE ( and lie)
    or you cannot write anything that doesnt fall within your ROSE TINTED VEIW on the topic ‘C P Haircut’

    also adam ! maybe money doesnt grow on trees for you .
    but our stadium is a ORCHARD ! you just need a GREEN THUMB
    to make it blossom !

    catch the drift tip #2 !

  32. Yogi’s Warrior
    I don’t see the bsis of criticising Edelman, the question came up at AST and he answred them. Some of the criticism levelled at the Board and the promotion of Kroenke is beyond belief. People say Arsenal don’t have money, now we know that there is, so what’s wrong with that. All the clubs are borrowing money to finance their operations so why not us? CFC has been borrowing and have lost 145+,140+ and 80+ in the last three years of their operations, where do you think the financing has been coming for CFC; apart from the 300+ dished out to it by Abramovich? Pool has been borrowing also to finance players purchases before the takeover and even the new owners have indicated they will borrow further to finance their stadium and new players, so what’s the big deal. This may be the first time we’re doing that but our near term income flows can see to that. Mind you, KROENKE will borrow for supporters to pay so let’s borrow and pay ourselves and throw away KROENKE’s overtures. MANU has also borrowed recently to purchases players. Now with the funds available, AW should buy players. We should also reduce cash flows by selling players who are not performing but taking salaries eg. Freddie, Song, Flamini, Senderos and a lot of the reserves who have lost the potential to move up. Our wage bill of 83+ last year just 2+ below MANU is too much. I always talk about Senderos ‘cos he’s no more good for Arsenal, with him playing, we’ll always be caught in a counter attack against speedy players. We need to buy one big fast player as a supporting CB, buy LW say the Dutch under 21, ADRENTHE, he has shown in the under 21 matches that he’s better than BABLE, let’s go for him; then another striker in case we have the kind of injuries we sustained last year, say Saviola, who is free. Malouda is too expensive at 17+ and Trezeguet’s wages at 90k is too much; well we can finance Trezeguet’s wages by selling off Freddie whose wages is 70k and also Flamini and Song. The new CB’s salary will take that of Sendy and here I’ll suggest Curties Davies. ADRENTHE, will not cost us more than 4+ and he will accept a wages of of 25k. So let’s do this and we’ll be fine. We don’t need any CM players we need one for LW, CB and a support striker.

  33. ffs you twats

    do you REALLY think transfers are paid in cash these days??

  34. You have cocked up here i am afraid YW.

    It had the ring of a statement that has been regurgitated from the past, even if fairly recently. I cannot see what is wrong with it either. A little bit of honesty in this world is rather refreshing.

    To correct one of the “commenters”, I sat next to the directors box at Highbury and most of the directors,and certainly PHW and Danny Fizman, rarely missed a match. I have also seen PHW outside the Emerates, having a fag, on several occasions.

    Why we have to have these unfounded attacks on the board, who make us the best run club in the EPL, is beyond me.

  35. Ekow Manso-Howard … good show !
    you are the only person talking sence here ..(other than me :) )
    there seems to be alot of people here quoting this bed wetter rubbish , but they need to look in the mirror . Because if you all dont think the club DOESNT HAVE ISSUES then buy your season tickets
    and the new ’spurs like’ away kit and stick your head in the sand , but be prepared for another fruitless season in the desert orchard …
    WE NEED TO SPEND NOW and on ..

    1. a winger that can play down both sides (also adapt theo as he has pace to do the same)
    2. a GREAT CD.. (cannavarro like ) van den borre- v.kompany
    3. and a GREAT prolific goal scoring legend ( in a similar mould to van nestleroy) to partner henry.. ( i dont admire van nestleroy i just achknowledge he puts the ball in the back of the net very regularly to take pressure off our captain up front) Trezeguet is not the answer ..
    4. and get babel as he is the type of bargain arsene is known to purchase.

    also i agree with ekow, get rid of the players on the fringe.
    we still have alot of the senderos’s and songs, no point in loaning out these guys praying that they will come good in another season , get the cash and buy player for today. whilst we still have a fan base left..

  36. oh woody what do you think buys players ?? shirt buttons ?? or bottle tops.. ???

    if you buy babel for 6 million .. WE HAVE TO PAY 6 million ..
    it might be that the terms are over 4 years , but when you balance the books we STILL HAVE TO PAY 6 million plus probable interest !

    all businesses get 2nd 3rd + mortages
    we are making the point that if you cant compete YOUI WONT MAKE ANY MONEY …

    also tip #3 for the twat above is MONEY MAKES MONEY !
    no spend …
    no rewards !!!

    calling me a twat only goes to show how stupid you must be
    for not understanding the mechanics of this !!!
    with all great businesses COMES GREAT RISK !
    you either PUT UP OR SHUT UP !!!
    but if you want to shut up , dont expect to win ANYTHING !

  37. The post is driven by a sense of frustration with what is going on at the moment with constant negativity surrounding anything to do with the Club. Nothing to do with signing big or getting Dein back – he isn’t the saviour. Most people know I don’t believe Dein is the great saviour. He has had his time and he may get another time.

    To control that is not outside of the Board’s remit – reigning in Henry, for example, is fully within their rights. If he can’t accept it then tough. The Board need to try to control the situation more. Henry could have been brought to heel weeks ago by either them or Wenger and told to drop the Dein comments. It is none of his business. He is a player who needs to concentrate on getting fit. As Captain he should be building up the youngsters not telling them that ‘we need better quality players’.

    If Edelman said it a while back then I’m big enough to admit that to criticise for issuing the statement was incorrect.

    Steve

    We will not sign a ‘great goalscoring legend’. Firstly there aren’t that many about. Secondly, name anyone else who has *two* at the club. Why? Because those players will look at the Club and wonder if (a) Henry is staying because of his comments and (b) realise that they will always play second fiddle to him in the way the team is set out.

    A winger – yes. Centre Half – Not likely as AW has Gallas and Toure who ought to be capable of filling that role. With Djourou and Senderos as cover that ought to be sufficient. More likely is a youngster such as the Norwegian lad we’ve been linked with.

  38. I cannot believe that there is anyone actually calling for the board to be removed. How very blinkered and frankly stupid and spoiled you have become. This is one of the very last top clubs in the country run by people who genuinely care about it. This is the same board that have overseen a move to our fantastic new home, have constantly and consistently assured us that Arsene has transfer funds available and have put up lots of money in the past for players that ultimately have then left for a fraction of what we paid for them, (Wiltord, Reyes.)

    Do you honestly think that if the board were always making claims that Arsene had money when in actual fact he had none that Arsene would have stayed or remained silent, I think not!

    I for one have always been proud of the way our club has been run, yes AG has saddled us with a massive debt but Emirates cleared 100m of that and when Highbury is finished there will be another £150m to put back in.

    It seems some of us want a rich sugar daddy to come in flash the cash for a couple of years make us all think everything is fine then begin to sell off our assets and we can all cry about it as we watch our great club sell out its fans and traditions for a quick fix.

    Read up on Kreonke he has done the same with his teams in the states. Lots of money does not guarantee success how much have the Chavs spent? This year they won the Carling cup! Wow I cant wait to be “That” big again.

    Get off the boards back and show some faith and some trust, they have not seen us wrong so far.

  39. Steve

    Don’t you know Toure is going to African games and that Senderos is not good? Have you been watching matches lately? That he is too slow and is always caught in counterattack as Arsenal player ‘cos is an attacking team? Sendy is always a mistake waiting to happen that’s why even AW prefer Gilberto to play there instead of him. Sendy must be sold to cut wages and may be bring Mat Connoly or Joe Caureaul from the reserves or a new CB. Sendy is not Arsenal quality, he did well in the CL because we played 4-5-1 then, very defensive so he had a lot of support.

  40. Ekow

    I disagree with the comment that Senderos is not *Arsenal* quality. He has had a rough ride against one forward in particular but is shorn of confidence, something that AW contributed towards once Sol Campbell recovered. PS had performed well up until that point and now is an hokey-cokey type of player. No matter how well he plays, he is dropped as soon as someone else is fit. He is definitely a confidence player at the moment, something he should grow out of over time. Sadly, a large number of people aren’t prepared to give him that.

    One thing though about the two names you mention. Are there any guarantees that they are better than Senderos? The only one I have seen, who hand on heart I can say yes they are, is Djourou

    YW

  41. Let’s all agree this explanation was taken out of context (and dated)….and this leaves me with the only valid questions currently:
    1- does AW recognise that the team needs a couple of quality additions to be really competitive next season ?
    2- has AW identified who he wants to attract to AFC to fill these gaps ?
    3- does he really have the financial muscle to buy these targets ? (vs. settling for back-up, second choice or worse nobody…)
    I really hope the answer is YES to each of these…if not then yes, I am concerned about the club’s direction.
    Aren’t these the fundamental questions today for our team ??
    T.

  42. Steve
    Raul? Trading off reputation for the past few seasons and whilst they are top, there is a perfectly valid thought train that says Barca and Sevilla have both thrown away chances to capitalise on results.
    Not sure that the ‘Rich Investors’ had much to do with United being injury and suspension free for the core of their team last season? We’ve had this debate before but United have not spent much (net) since the Glazers took over; before this season, they had funded purchases through sales – over the course of a season. Liverpool? They have invested nothing in the squad yet. Only Chelsea have benefitted from largesse of an owner.
    I can smell the chicken and at this moment in time is still undercooked.
    All
    Some perfectly valid points are losing their impact with petty name calling. Let’s leave it out, eh?

  43. yogi .. name 1 ??
    real madrid . raul – and the van ..
    (and look what position they are in !! 1st)

    isnt that where we wanna be???
    correct me if i wrong

    what is missing is dennis.. .
    it takes the pressure off henry up front freeing him up so defenders dont double team him enabling him to weave his magic 1 on 1 which we all know he still has !(and not get frustrated), whether its mental or not henry hasnt got much support up front currently and if van persie and co. come good like last season maybe they are the answer , but if we got another PROVEN quality stiker and we win the league year after year, im sure the players wont want to go anywhere !
    and what were we guilty of last season ? not finishing with a killer instinct. this is a main issue ! and never EVER talked about .

    also yogi the african nations cup is comming up meaning toure – eboue are gone for a large portion of mid season . gallas can play most positions at the back and a 3rd CD
    would give us the cover needed even if our strikers arnt preforming. you have to realize we wont be sporting a full strength team if either toure or gallas ( gone for 3 months)
    are injured or away on national duties.. you got to look ahead and i dont want to sound like the rest of the plonkers here but curtis davies would be a good 3rd CD .
    but id prefer to see someone REALLY seasoned . no rookies if i had my way :)

    and i agree with you , henry shouldnt even comment about any board member ,youth .. or even worry about any issues at the club. Hes our captain.. thoses questions and issues shouldnt even be brought up .HES A PLAYER SO PLAY !. and like i said before you wouldnt have tony adams carrying on like this ..

    also drew , they havnt seen us wrong so far???
    holy shite man ! have you been in a time capsule for 2 years?

  44. So, if people actually bothered to read the comments they would see what Keith Edelman actually was talking about, and the fact that he never made such a statement to the Daily Star or any other shitty newspaper. It isn’t the board who is inept in their handling of the media, it is us. We seem to believe everything we’re served.

  45. YW

    I’m surprised about your evaluation of Senderos; he’s not good. Injury aside, his pace and turning is terrible. Watch Arsenal/PSV first round, AFC/CFC, Blackburn/AFC in the FA where McCarthy scored, Boro/AFC and on and on. He has’nt got the pace, turning, and agility required of an AFC player. In fact he’ll not be selected even at the WHL. I’m not being disrectful of him, the guy just has no growth space to be successful here. Anytime I see him in the team I get scared ‘cos, hes always a mistake coming. The style of play at AFC don’t suit him; we’re an attacking team and our defenders don’t play deep so we need defenders who can run down to cover up in a counter attack, and he hasn’t got it. Well, if you think, he’s okay then support him but I know sooner or later if disaster strike you will remember my comments. I’ve watched the guy several times, he has good attitude but lack the capabilty to succeed with AFC. People say give him time, he’s been here for long enough.

  46. Tokala
    =====

    1- does AW recognise that the team needs a couple of quality additions to be really competitive next season ?

    YES

    2- has AW identified who he wants to attract to AFC to fill these gaps ?

    good question but ,
    YES – the problems are the board and monitary issues
    which he is ALL TOO aware of .as he sits on the board and probly knows how much debt this stadium has put us in …

    3- does he really have the financial muscle to buy these targets ? (vs. settling for back-up, second choice or worse nobody…)

    some answers to that would be like ekow said sell the fringe players generating some transfer funds.
    or the simple answer , GET IN DEBT like all the other clubs at the top !!!
    3rdly get Kreonke’s cash ..

    I mean everyone is praising arsenal being English owned club.. for godsake men ! all our top players are french or other nationalities..
    its a bit hypocritical to start waving the english flag !
    if some stupid yank wants to throw money at us to make our team better .. I SAY TAKE IT !!!

    WINNING IS 1st priority !!!! also champions league is 2nd
    so we need top 4 ! EVERY SEASON..

    too many other clubs are making a pitch to knock us off this season… portsmouth – newcastle – maybe man city .. liverpool will close the gap on the top 2 .. so where does that leave us !??!

    IM NOT BEING NEGATIVE IM STATING THE FACTS PURE AND SIMPLE ! if none of you can see it , then find some english investor prepared to throw money at us .if it makes you sleep better ( with our french -senegal -african and european squad + theo :) ). but dont give me the bed wetting drivel or i have faith in arsene BS , because if none of you can see our window of opertunity narrowing after 2 fruitless seasons , this isnt the arsenal we know and love .. WE ARE WINNERS and should still be winners .. and the points table isnt reflective of our stature !!!

  47. Edelman’s remarks on the so-called trading facility were a simplification for non-financial people. Reading between the lines, it’s what bankers call a credit enhancement facility. When Arsenal want to pay for a player over a number of years the selling club takes a credit risk on Arsenal and they have to wait for their money. Credit enhancement means Arsenal’s bank guarantees that Arsenal will meet the instalments. This guarantee is the letter of credit Edelman referred to. The seller has a credit risk on, say Barclays, and if they need the cash now, they can sell the debt they have on Arsenal/Barclays to their own bank at a lower cost. At this stage Arsenal haven’t borrowed any money; they are paying a guarantee fee which should be about the same as the risk margin the bank charges on a loan. BUT they are not paying bank rate or equivalent, so they are saving about 4% a year. The downside is that if the selling club is wised up, they will try to negotiate a higher transfer fee to take into account they have to wait for their money.
    This technique was used by Arsenal, perhaps for the first time, for the purchase of Gilberto Silva and this won a prize from a banking magazine as best deal of the year.
    This facility makes a lot of financial sense as it helps Arsenal keep their cash pile intact and doesn’t eat into their borrowing limit and is cheaper than borrowing.

  48. Per Tore..

    well excuse us for reading blogs ..
    im sure you have henrys and arsenes phone number on auto dial mobile phone ! but we havnt …

    most simpltons like myself watch the news and read credible papers or read bbc sports – sporting life etc..
    but it doesnt take bloody nostradamas to tell us that we need to spend money dude !

    if we dont spend ….then we get left behind with spurs !!!
    its that simple !!!

    and how you can make me responsible for not buying ribery is beyond my understanding ?

    or making henry not commit to a future to arsenal ..being my fault .. your talking out the bottom half of your body ..

    also its pretty obvious that we are strapped for cash .
    and the board must approve or deny spending ..??correct?
    why cant we spend 17 mil for ribery yet a team with no champions league action next season can !??!
    whether you like ribery or find him over rated isnt the question .. its the fact we cant even compete to purchase
    ’said player’ !!!

    then we get linked to players worth 6 mil etc.. if you cannot read between the lines that truely is your problem !

    but i will say this for all the slowies out there

    THE BOARD ISNT PREPARED TO GAMBLE ON GETTING IN MASSIVE DEBT AND MAYBE WINNING NOTHING AGAIN FOR ANOTHER SEASON.. HENCE PUTTING THEM FURTHER IN DEBT..

    BUT I SAY WE HAVE THE MAKINGS OF A TEAM THAT CAN MOUNT A SERIOUS CHALLENGE.. FABS- HENRY- GALLAS – TOURE – LEHMANN – ROSICKY – GAEL- GILBERTO all we need is to fill in the blanks and we wontbe too far asstray come the end of the season..

    with conservative thinking we will get pushed further and further down the ranks ..
    use your brains for a minute what have 3 out of the 4 top clubs done to ensure they stay FRONT RUNNERS IN THE EPL ?
    yes , correct children THEY GOT BOUGHT OUT BUY RICH INVESTORS !!!?

    can you smell the chicken ?!

  49. A rich investor like Paul Allan or Dubai international dont need to borrow money like Kroenke or Gillettt. Its seems nobody understands AFC accounts.How much is paid each year to repay the loan?How much is pad for Highbury development?when will loans be paid off?Why is there no cash flow? IF WE DONT FINISH IN TOP FOUR WE WILL START SINKING.WE NEEDTO MAKE PEACE WITH DEIN TO RETAIN AW AND FOR HIM TO SIGN NEW CONTRACT

  50. I think Jim Callaghan said ‘A lie can be halfway around the world before the truth has even got its boots on’. The Daily Star story which invented an interview with Edelman that didn’t take place but simply culled quotes from the notes of a meeting that took place with the supporters’ trust a month ago has been picked up by the Daily Mirror this morning and has also been taken at face value by at least two decent Arsenal blogs including this one. All give the wrong slant on a basic commercial device.

    It was a shame that you hadn’t read the meeting notes before posting this Yogi as it covers a number of club issues and is generally encouraging about the competence of the board. If you haven’t yet read it then please take the time to do so.

    For me Per Tore post 43 has it absolutely right. It it us that can’t handle the media.

  51. Steve_gooner,
    Alex Ferguson’s spending increases the odds of a strong finish no doubt, but by no means is it certain.
    My point is simply this: The more the debt the more downside cover you have.
    I’ll just post one hypothetical scenario: A spell of injuries to a crucial clutch of players can throw a spanner into the works as it did to us this season. That’s something that can happen despite the best conditioning, training and care.
    With Man U’s current debt levels, not to mention their spending spree, a spell like that to them can have much more painful consequences. Neither of us know where their adventure is going to lead them. Let’s see.
    Does Arsenal need to spend 50 million to compete? I don’t think so. Not with this squad. We need 2-3 players certainly, and good quality. Are they going to cost us 50 million? I don’t think so.
    You also present extreme choices: It’s not a tradeoff between debt and titles. It is a question of being competitive and financially sound. Are they mutually contradictory? I don’t think so.
    I certainly ‘am not against spending; but I certainly care about the kind of spending we do.
    Mark my words, when all this dust- takeovers, debt, inflated transfer fees and wages- settles, there’s going to be a lot of tears around. I don’t want Arsenal there.

  52. Correction:
    The more debt the less downside cover one has.

  53. Steve
    Liverpool spent a lot of money last year only they didn’t buy quality as always; is like most top players don’t like living in Pool at the moment and their targeting is poor; they tend to buy players on the fringes.

  54. Steve

    you are totally wrong abt debt. every business works on debt. its called gearing. having greater debt doesn’t make you weaker. in fact many economists believe it is a sign of ambition and growth.

    the real question is abt having growth plans to service the debt.

    to bill gates 350m (the present debt) is peanuts. back pocket cash. to man utd the present arsenal debt is nothing. because they have plans to service a debt of 650m and still grow the club.

    if we are to compete with the top clubs we have to change the management at board level. it quite simple. they do not have the vision or ability to grow arsenal. without growth even the present 350m is a killer debt.

    i agree sack the board and bring back dein.

  55. It is wrong to say that ‘gearing’ or debt is neccessarily a positive sign of ambition. It depends on what the debt is intended for and what it is secured against. Using assets as security to finance investment in capital assets able to generate income in excess of their costs over the lifetime of the asset is good commercial sense. On the other hand borrowing against future income to buy short life depreciating assets that cannot be certain of generating more income than their cost is economic madness.

  56. Does anyone really believe (even without any additions) that this squad will not be better next year? I agree that we do need 2-3 good acquisitions and I believe AW will give them to us.

    Think of Denilson, Diaby, not to mention Walcott, Hoyte & Eboue? Plus Fabregas, RVP & Adebayor have not yet hit their best time, but they are close. All will be better this year. If he wasn’t such a tosser would Arsenal supporters have really been happy to see Cole go – losing a quality player leaves a big hole at left back … No, Clichy steps up & we lose nothing (& gain Gallas). AW sees things that we can’t and I think he has earned the right to be trusted.

    If the names mentioned above improve anywhere near Clichy’s improvement – it’s an exciting thought I think.
    Structurally, I think we need some more width which a pacy winger like Babel would bring (the sale of Reyes should cover that) and I agree some more cover at CB and RB. I would also prefer a better third finisher than Ade but he will be better.

    Provided injuries (and suspensions) are not like this year the squad will not be too far off next season.

  57. Vik

    Gearing: As with any economic / accountancy term you can find a counterpoint that will be equally valid. It is not the only viewpoint of the business that should be taken and does not prove either way that the current financial practices of the Board are wrong or right for that matter.

    What I will say is that the scenario you say with regard to ‘growing’ Arsenal is one thing they have managed successfully, taking the steady route rather than a fast track which can lead to crash and burn. Note I did not say will.

    I have read and heard about how they should ‘grow’ through ‘borrowing’ but not one strategy has been presented that will show how additional funding is to be serviced. There are two operative ways of doing so:

    Firstly you charge more for your product, i.e. tickets, merchandising or secondly, you cut costs. No-one knows whether the latter is feasible (it usually is as all businesses have fat that can be cut) nor has anyone come out with plans to show how the former works. The biggest stumbling block on this is that TV Rights are marketed collectively so Arsenal cannot exploit those markets any further on their own. They can look to break into new markets such as Asia and America in terms of merchandise with a view to raising more profitable business to fund increased borrowing. However, that depends on events on the field. If they are successful on the pitch, awareness of the Club increases off of it. But what happens if things on the pitch go awry?

    However, a new owner will probably borrow to buy the Club. They will therefore be increasing the debt to *stand still*. Unless they have concrete and feasible plans to *improve* the club’s position, why should we blindly believe that they are going to do so? Simply because Dein is involved? Pardon me for being underwhelmed by the use of that as a cogent argument to prove a point.

    YW

  58. Yogi’s Warrior . raul has scored only 7 goals this year i admit ..but 24 assists !!! most of them fed from him to the van …
    raul is the un sung hero in reals push to the top.. and remember they havnt been coasting on top all season . so if your saying barca and sevilla made mistakes to let them just coast on by i think your incorrect with your findings . infact they only made there run in january (about the time the becks signed for the U.S..before that in january they were sitting 4th on the ladder… but it must be said raul is a TOP CLASS STRIKER ! hes’ creative and DEMANDS attention up front.. and
    no team will let him roam freely.. which unfortunatly is the case with our number 2 strikers.. van persie made them pay , and he really looks promising .. but as you know anything can happen next season , i just hope it doesnt take all season for him (RVP)to get his mojo back ..

    Ekow liverpoo is overrated i do agree , but you have to deal with the facts that raffa does have this supposed war chest, and he is spainish ! and the spanish season is still underway.. he will make his purchases sometime next week im sure.. he knows he hasnt been able to challenge in the past due to transfer budget restrictions. and i wouldnt say getting robbie fowler,crouch etc, means he was spending fruitfully without restriction prior. liverpool has followed a similar path to us the past few seasons. but im sure the club looks at the points table and realize something needs to be done..

    vik i didnt say anything about the debt making us weaker .. i want to get into debt .. i would love the arsenal board to be that reckless !!! you misunderstood me .. im saying they are as tight as a nuns …. when it comes to giving arsene the cash he needs to mount a serious challenge to the table !
    id like nothing more than a 60 million spending spree by arsene and im sure if we had a mixture of great experienced players playing the beautiful game (and finishing the runs off with goals ) . plus our stadium being the envy of every other club in the league .. it is a mix that is bound to generate huge revenues in the future.

    Karthic .. you can say the same with injury about our last game of the season Vs spurs 2 years ago .. all food poisioned remember ?! Those points where the difference between 4th and 5th we cannot predict that gallas will be injured or not .. or henry .. but if the club get another top CD- Striker – winger .. whatever .. if those ‘hypothetical scenarios’ happen we ARE COVERED ! and thats what fergies doing.. nani – anderson are great utility players who can cover 2/3rds of the feild , there top class (untested in the UK i admit ) but i havnt really seen too many south american players fail , lets be honest or portugese players either .. So in essence he is buying a top 2 position ..
    and as you said remember my words come the end of the season…
    what gets me is that we need the same stratagy ourselves
    also someone said man U hasnt really spent much since
    the american gits took over .. well my answer to that is THEY DIDNT SELL ALL THEIR EXPERIENCE TO PURCHASE A NEW STADIUM EITHER ! and we wouldnt be having this conversation either if we kept patrick , sol , cole , lauren
    (who is missed massively at right back ) and we gave pires the 2 year deal he was after .. but the signals i get..
    and im not taksin looking thru arsenals books but it was obvious that arsenal killed all there top earning players to get there wage budget reduced.. and the most problable reason was the stadium repayments killing them ..

    i think the best thing would have been to renovate highbury to 55 000 seats and keep winning !!!!!

    also who really expected such a dramatic increase in spending money on players to stay competive in the EPL. the CHEVS
    started this …. man U and liverpool are following suit..
    newcastles recruiting well with the best english manager available , man city is looking to reverse its fortunes this season .. as well as (as much as i hate to say it ) spurs are
    getting some great ENGLISH talent together.. and then theres teams like west ham and portsmouth who could be wild cards this year with 1 or 2 important signings ..
    WE NEED TO STAY AHEAD OF THE JONES !

  59. There isn’t a lot wrong with where you want us to be Steve but your means of getting there is flawed. Just to pick up on some of your points.

    Firstly Rafa doesn’t have pots of money. Haven’t you been following the dispute he is having with his board because he needs to sell first to generate transfer funds? Secondly you say there haven’t been many South American failures – well Veron was a pretty spectacular one …and Kleberson…what about Baptista? As for Portuguese players Postiga and Viana come to mind. I am sure others can come up with many more. Thirdly there was a great item posted a couple of few days ago about the long term viability of what ManU are trying to do and the negative effect that it is having on the ticket prices. Fourth the Arsenal wage bill had increased by £12mn at the start of this season so it isn’t true to say that we reduced it at all. Fifth it just wasn’t possible to increase the size of Highbury – that was the preferred option but you have only to look at the site to know that could never happen.

    We all want Arsenal to win trophies but risking the whole club on winning something for next season doesn’t do us any good. We want sustained success and that means doing things sensibly and conservatively though it might be frustrating .

  60. just read a article by the mirror .. hmmmm
    it just said arsene has been given 40 mil transfer war chest…
    i hope their right ! its just speculation currently judging by the way it was written.

    if babel is truely only worth 6 million i would buy 2 :)
    but someone like Gonzalo Higuaín, or sergio ramos..
    even Thiago Motta for the aging gilberto. Alot of people
    would say we dont need too many central midfeild players
    and to a degree i would agree . but to have a marshall in the centre of the park like the above names could almost be as influential as a TOP STRIKER . not to dis fab’s but if he is injured then arsene starts mixing the team up putting freddie
    in a central role or flamini which seems sure to exit ..it definatley would give the arse a few more options ..
    and one thing no one has said with regards to outbursts is fabrigas almost threatening to walk if arsene does.
    which could happen next season . so if he does walk then least we have a GREAT central midfeild legend who has played for the team for a season ..

    lets face it .. if we win the EPL next season im sure fabs and henry wont be going anywhere .. thats why you get the few odd arsenal supporters raving like me .. as i can see
    the worst case senario next season , but we have to power now to SHOUT OUT AND SAY .. BUY THE PLAYERS , AND GET THE RESULTS NOW ~~ !

    because like yogi said .. if you get the results on the pitch , we will convert more fans to the arsenal .. and more fans means more revenue for the future ..

    so thats why i cant understand the board not splashing out sooner to give those other clubs a run for there money..
    If any team has the capibility to win next season , it’s us ..

  61. Amos read my post, not just the first line.

    As i said its not the debt you should be questioning but what its being used for.

    350m is a killer debt if there is no plan to use the money for growing arsenal. you have built the stadium. now what? do you have plans that will fill it for years to come because you are achieving success and attracting big name players. only the big name players will sell more shirts etc and bring increased sponsorship. i think the failed experiment with no names should have taught us a lesson. they can only get you so far.

    650m for man utd is not a problem to them because they continue to grow the brand and increase their net worth. they do this by acquiring players and winning things.

    not like us for the last two years. arsene has been able to keep us in CL positions without huge investment in players. but that will not last. things have changed. villa, spurs, west ham, have new very ambitious, very clever, owners.

    frankly i would be shocked if finish in the top 4 next year WITHOUT a major influx of talent.

    exactly what henry has been saying. exactly what dein said when he first met kroenke.

  62. Steve

    We should ADRENTHE; the Dutch under 21 guy as our LW. Have you been watching the under 21 cmpetitions? He’s better than Babel. He is direct, has great pace, strong, tireless and can play on the right too, he will be great in the EPL. Don’t think he can cost more than 4+, A wages of 25k might be okay; don’t know why this guy has not been identified for a long time. He’s AW’s type of transfers, very good but unknown, I bet you he is better than Ribery and Malouda and will be cheap. If you haven’t been watching the games start doing so and keep an eye on ADRENTHE, he is just unbelievable. The player we need for LW next season, I pray that Wenger picks him ahead of BABEL and MALOUDA.

  63. The premise of your argument Vik seems to be that big names make the club. In reality I think it is the other way around – the club makes the big names. Vieira, Henry, Overmars, Anelka, Cesc were all made big names because of the success of the team. Succesful players are spawned from succesful teams. Buying ‘galacticos’ will sell you shirts but it doesn’t guarantee success.

    Based on where Arsenal are in their business cycle having just made a major investment in the stadium future income will put us in a position where we can in a couple of years time liberate greater funds for transfers but to criticise the board now for what is firstly a very brave and bold decision and having the foresight to invest in the clubs future rather than just next years trophy seems the opposite of reality. The new owners you mention are businessmen, they are not philanthropists, you will see those clubs being managed on sensible commercial lines or they will fail – it’s that simple.

    As for Arsenal finishing in the top four – prepare to be shocked.

  64. YW.

    >>Unless they have concrete and feasible plans to *improve* the club’s position, why should we blindly believe that they are going to do so? Simply because Dein is involved? Pardon me for being underwhelmed by the use of that as a cogent argument to prove a point.

  65. Vik

    Please don’t assume what Dein told Kroenke when they met. Lets get it straight from the horses mouth, as no-one else can provide the detail. Even then you may end up with two different versions of what was said.

    A major influx of talent? Way off track. Perhaps a LW whilst some want a new CB or CF. Hardly major.

    And in what way has the experiment of having no names failed? The squad lost a great deal of experience over two seasons, could not or would not replace it (depending on which version you believe) yet is in the top four for both seasons and a CL final.

    The ‘Galacticos’ you yearn for have brought Madrid no trophies for three seasons, not a ringing endorsement. Chelsea have bought big through the pockets of their owner. Arsenal will not find that kind of owner so everything spent has to be paid for. The new stadium funds that in matchday revenues and ancillary income. Other income enables to the club to grow within its means.

    Manchester United won the title for the first time in three years having rebuilt through net selling on the transfer front. They have just spent £50m on players but there will be a payback on this – ticket prices have risen by four times inflation and they are still cheaper than Arsenal.

    Arsenal do not have the scope to enforce such rises without having a seriously detrimental impact on their fanbase. It may go through for a couple of seasons but then what? When they price the majority out of the game so that people watch on Sky in front of the TV watching half empty stadiums?

  66. amos ,
    so your telling me liverpool dont have a big transfer budget this year.. just wait and see !!!!

    also veron played well for Man U in his 2nd season (scored 4 goals in the CL if i remember )before they allowed chevs to sway him over to chelsea (and if he was so crap why would chelsea see something in him)in which the poor toss played a total of 14 games for them .and they jerked him around on loan to inter . i think you need to research your facts before you say he was CRAP .
    and its totally unfair to sledge baptista ! he wasnt even considered by arsene for the 1st half of the season ..
    by that time im sure the pressure and his confidence was balancing on the edge of a knife ..

    anyhow im talking about anderson and nani who are at the top of the crop,in the most wanted young talent list .. those types of players are mouldable , not the veterans your talking about

    haim ronaldo denilson none of which have failed ..
    so if your not understanding the type of calibre player im on about .. HOPEFULLY YOU ARE NOW !

    in responce to your 3rdly ! man U putting up prices is a smart thing .. and i dont care what you say .. if your team is winning youll be packing out your seats to the rafters as people will pay for the pleasure of the feel it gives them to win every week !, and probly deckchairs on the roof also ! and they will fill them too whilst their winning !!!!

    and i find your 4th statement a load of toss .
    how can you say our wage budget has gone up when weve lost bergcamp ( who 2 years ago was the highest paid player in the league 75 k) cole- lauren-sol- patrick -pires. and replaced them with youth !!! total garbage ..

    and most importantly 5th highbury couldnt be renovated .. TOTAL BOLLOCKS .. im an architect!! and there isnt a space
    that cannot be transformed architectually on the planet !. they probly were swayed by the temptation of highbury re-development into condos being a financial wind fall that would off set the new stadium costs.. well that so far hasnt rang true !

  67. sorry my last post didn’t come through.

    I actually stated we do not have a choice when it comes to who to trust. I have more faith in Dein than one major shareholder who lost me a lot of money in Psion and another who did a worst job at eurotunnel. how many g14, uefa, fifa and even cl draws did any of the others attend?

    1) if you take the TV deal in isolation – then yes it creates problems in developing a growth strategy. but you ignore convergent media at your peril. mlb has done a great job with baseball on the web. can you imagine the scope of a game that is actually liked and fun to watch? many journos have ignored kroenke’s take over of arsenal broadband as an aside. it was not.

    2) i am not espousing the real madrid model. i am talking abt the la porta model. one glactico per season. that increases the profile of the club enough in the media worldwide to increase the brand. it also creates enough fear in the opposing poorer teams to give you 10 point head start.

    3) i live in london – i am a senior strategist. let me tell you there is more disposable income in our fanbase than any in the world incl the yankees. you can triple the gate prices and there will be still be a waiting list at the emirates as long as media profile contiues to grow.

    - thats where the galacticos come in. thats why the la porta model has turned around barcelona.

    as for growing stars. that only works in an immature market. unfortunately the new breed of prem owners will not allow those players to grow anymore. the pressure of immediate success is going to be greater than ever.

  68. > we can triple gate prices

    Sorry but that is an unsupportable viewpoint. Do you seriously believe that to be true?

    > we have more disposable income in our fanbase

    So now we are means testing our support. Tell me something, do you believe the wealthy are better supporters than those with less? Is that what you think Arsenal Football Club is about? If so, God Help Us All if your vision ever becomes true.

    You cannot compare Barca or Madrid or even hold them up as role models. Economically, the figures can equate but the structure and their roles in their respective societies are so far removed from Arsenal that any opportunity to compare is facile.

    How do you think Stars are made? They do not grow on trees, they are nutured through teams. Stars on their own do not win titles. If that was the case, Chelsea would have had a clean sweep of every competition.

    The pressure to win instantly is a reflection of society as AW rightly observed weeks ago. Those that want it immediately need to reflect upon what they are getting. Instant success, unsustainable success.

  69. drew 38………
    its 150million from emirates over 10 years and 90+from highbury and with increase in sky money and previous sponsership deals and income from fringe players and add ons from upson pennant stokes muamba etc and cole transfermoney and reyes when he’s eventually sold and the increase this year from the emirates stadium and the decrease in wages being paid out for campball pires cole lauren etc even the legend berg.. you say this board have the best interests of arsenal??
    how many members on the board? do you know?
    question? if they wanted a new stadium could they not finance it between themselves?
    theres enough of them there to raise 400£m in todays money of buisiness people 400m is not a lot..especially when you will save yourself 17m interest every year(so dont tell me they are doing it for the interest of arsenal)
    question…they built a stadium with only a 60000capacity..and every game again is SOLD OUT..maybe in the future when wengers had enough of the lies from the board and we go back to the grim days of the 80’s pre 83 then 60000 is adequate enough..but until then another board f*** up..

    question…in 82 or 83 when dennis hill wood died and left the club to his son peter hill wood?
    what did he do?
    sold to the highest bidder ie david dean…
    and i remember him saying it’s dead money..
    so our beloved chairman at time 3 generations as chairmen, with the BEST INTERESTS OF CLUB at that time SOLD OUT!!!!
    now what is the difference between now and what happened then??
    the answer theres a lot more money to be made now out of football so this board aint gonna sell out as the £££££££s keeep rolliin in£££££ AND THERE ROLLIN IN!BUT NOT ROLLIN OUT

  70. Harlan

    there are so many great players nowadays its so hard to keep tabs on them all .. but i agree with you as far as arsene really seems too pool from the dutch – french and all those french speaking nations like ivory coast ,senegal etc.. it almost is predictable where he will get his new talent from .. But i do think we need some more experience .. and as amos said earlier (on which i do agree with him a little on ) it seems those players of around the 25 + bracket need some time to adjust but the general nature of the game is IF YOU DONT MAKE AN IMPACT FROM WORD GO ,you get no 2nd chances .but pro rata brazillian players ( i should have been more specific) and portugal players ( under 21s + 23s ) rarely fail.. those nations have a HUGE passion for football at an early age and something needs to change in the UK before we can generate those types of stars wholesale. ok becks, gerrard maybe terry all are towards the top end of our nations cream of the crop , but our future is bright i feel with reo – theo – nugent – young ferdinand etc..

    i spose its like us in the real world if you work for someone
    for over 5 years in any work enviroment , it does take some time to adjust to a new surroundings and the climate.. baptista at sevilla was a goal scoring giant.
    throw him into 2 different clubs in 3 years and he ends up a quivering mess ! Im sure we all saw what baptista had to offer in small patches , especially in the CL , but alas do you all really think he was given the chances on the pitch ?!
    i mean from week to week he must of thought it was real madrid mark II .

  71. ‘Sorry but that is an unsupportable viewpoint. Do you seriously believe that to be true?’

    absolutely. look at the waiting list. even the fiszmans have admitted we could have built a 80k stadium and sold it out.

    i do not see the hunger for football abating any time soon.

    thats why chelsea, west ham and spurs are also planning bigger stadiums.

    ‘So now we are means testing our support. Tell me something, do you believe the wealthy are better supporters than those with less? Is that what you think Arsenal Football Club is about? If so, God Help Us All if your vision ever becomes true.’

    since the industrial revolution every business conducts market research. do you think banks give 300m in loan facilities without due diligence?

    ‘You cannot compare Barca or Madrid or even hold them up as role models.’

    business models not role models. this is not a philosophical debate. its whether we can afford bigger named stars and if the present board are doing a good job.

    ‘How do you think Stars are made? They do not grow on trees, they are nutured through teams. Stars on their own do not win titles. If that was the case, Chelsea would have had a clean sweep of every competition.’

    if they had a decent manager they would have.

    there is no time to grow stars anymore. thats done in lower leagues or out on loan. when they come to us they are already stars. I am not making a sweeping statement. there is always room for one or two players to emerge like cesc. but 60% or 70% of the team has to be players who are already in their prime. doesn’t mean successful – like henry’s failure in italy. but developed nonetheless.

    i would like a torres or adriano partnering henry at the emirates. they are developed not as successful as etoo.

  72. hey yogi youve gotta agree thou , if lets say we won the CL and EPL in the same season , then next year they hiked the ticket prices , sure we would complain .. like hell about it ..
    But if the club does generate more capital and more importantly we are winning every game .. PEOPLE will pay to see it REGARDLESS !!!.maybe personally you couldnt afford to goto the game every 2nd week, but with only limited tickets 4 people will be lining up to take your place . like the world cup tickets..
    this is a world that isnt getting any cheaper either !
    look at prices of cars .. just because everyone needs a car
    dont mean the prices should remain the same.. behind every thing that is saleable , there is a marketing engine who is determined next year ( or season) to create more profit for that organization ..

    as for testing the support theory , i wouldnt do it too arsenal now .. if anything after 2 years with no silverware id be dropping prices if anything !!!!

    but at old trafford this season its a sound financial business plan to hike them to get maximum profits back into the club( and lets make it clear i HATE man U ) but because ticket prices go up dont mean they will stay inflated for evermore, look at newcastle last season they actually dropped there ticket prices to get supporters back into the stands.
    and i wouldnt suggest arsenal inflate there ticket prices and merchandise either ,as timing in critical for that stratagy to work .

  73. Vik

    You haven’t actually substantiated any of your arguments with respect to wealth. It is naive to believe that football is going to remain the same or better throughout the rest of time. It won’t. It will hit a point whereby its revenues are maximised and interest will peak. Thereafter is a decline.

    Banks may do due diligence now but they are only concerned with the servicing and repayment of their debt. Part of that covers the business plan but even the best due diligence in the world is a punt over more than five years. Opinions change and so do actions. Market Research is never valid for longer than twelve months and indeed, after six is dated. Since you quote the industrial revolution, how many industries have gone through sustained growth permanently? None. All industry is cyclical. Football is not recession proof and in order to survive must grow organically not through borrowing. To use a worn phrase, that is ‘boom and bust economics’. Currently it is riding high on the crest of a wave but there are limits within which it must operate otherwise the fall it has will be extremely long and hard.

    Football is a team sport, the manager part of that. If you have the eleven best players in the World, theoretically, you should win everything. But the theory falls apart once a match kicks in. You cannot legislate for a late tackle that earns a red card or one of your players being badly injured. You cannot legislate for a bad refereeing decision. You cannot legislate for poor form. You try to minimise the impact of such things.

    In Chelsea’s case, they have a good manager. You may not like him but he is good. They lost the title effectively when they lost their two key players for several months. Ring any bells?

  74. Most of these a your arguments are ill considered and poorly informed Steve which is why the tone of your posts reflect you getting so hot under the collar I guess.

    So £28mn Veron sold to Chelsea for less than half that and then shipped out was a success was he? Best not put you in charge of the transfer budget then.

    As for my fourth statement that Arsenals wage bill has gone up being tosh I am afraid that I have you there because it is a matter of public record. The last records showed that wages had increased by £12.3mn p.a. in the six months to November. The six months to May should be published sometime in August .

    As for you being an architect then I am surprised – if you really feel we could have double the capacity at Highbury then you really are an exceptional talent and should have pitched for the contract. On the other hand it was fully considered by the board and their advisers before the decision was made to go for the emirates so it is something of a vacuous point. Anyone who was a regularly visit there would have known that it just couldn’t be done economically.

  75. [...] Are The Board Panic-Striken Or Just PR Inept? The bushes were hacked back successfully yesterday and it’s amazing how true to the current situation at Arsenal […] [...]


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